Is Erick Erickson Ashamed of His Fellow Creationists?

Yes Erick, very many creationists do believe the Young Earth delusion
Wingnuts • Views: 36,799

The topics of creationism and evolution are always popular among the American media, of all types, and for good reason as the American population is split over their acceptance of modern science. Thus conflict of opinion arises when discussing these issues and this draws attention, as we’ve seen this past couple of weeks with Ann Coulter as she tries to find new life for her sagging career as a pundit.

Not to be outdone, Erick Son of Erick, proprietor of the RedState blog, writes an article published in the Washington Examiner: Sunday Reflection: Ignorance widespread in media about Christianity in which he attempts to soft-pedal creationism (among other Christian Fundamentalist teachings) and blame the leftist media for being out of touch with

… the religion shared by a majority of Americans.

Before that conclusion he touches on creationism, about which he claims:

The final coup de grace was Kathleen Parker in the Washington Post, who wrote that Rick Perry’s belief in “creationism” meant by default he believed God created the world 6,500 years ago — a small minority opinion even among creationists.

The “small minority” assertion just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

To determine why all one has to do is look at the long running surveys that both the Pew and Gallup organizations have been conducting, to assess American social opinions on many subjects including evolution. Now, there are many polls that have been done on this subject, but the Pew and Gallup surveys are the best known and, fortunately for the question at hand, in 2009 Pew compiled some of the results of their and Gallup’s surveys and addressed somewhat the “young Earth” question, which they summarized nicely in this table.

Look at that table closely, Erick. You will see that in Pew’s survey that 42% of Americans said they believed that all living things have existed in their “present form since the beginning of time”. Even pinning down the creationists’ beliefs more finely, the Gallup survey shows that approximately 44% or so of all Americans believe “God created human beings pretty much in the present form at one time within the past 10,000 years or so.”

Those are surveys that sample from all people living in the US. Since both Pew and Gallup show that only a small number accept the science (evolution over long periods of time), somewhere between 14% and 26%, it seems that those who believe in an old earth creationism process are roughly the same share (or slightly less) than the young earth creationists.

The bottom line is this, Erick: around half of all your fellow creationists are Young Earth Creationists. They even probably have a majority in your religion (American “conservative” Christianity.)

And yes, they are delusional, caught up in magical thinking.

Now, in the rest of his editorial Mr. Erickson tries to minimize the religious influences on current American politics of various personalities. E.g.:

… Bachmann was not influenced by Rushdoony, but, even if she were, Lizza completely misinterpreted what Rushdoony suggested. Schaeffer, who did influence Bachmann, contradicted Rushdoony and really cannot be reconciled with his line of thinking.

Lizza also confused and conflated “dominionism” with “reconstructionism,” …

Yes, Rushdoony and Francis Schaeffer were not identical in their beliefs (though the big difference was in their personal lives and practical religion, with Schaeffer remaining engaged with various Evangelical organizations contrasted with Rushdoony isolated in his home estranged even from his son in law, Gary North), just as “dominionism” and “reconstructionism” are not perfectly equivalent.

However, such religious hair-splitting is like trying to convince the victims of Torquemada that the Catholic Church really wasn’t torturing them because Torquemada was a Dominican friar and not a Mercedarian. It was still the Catholic Church.

One final bit of obfuscation in which Mr. Erickson engages - he wrote:

… [NYT columnist] Keller went on to be-clown, himself confusing Protestant theology with Catholic theology, mixing up basic theological concepts, and otherwise trying to ask “gotcha” questions of the politicians unrelated to either their domestic or foreign policies.

Had any conservative asked Barack Obama these questions in relation to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s theology, Keller would have roundly condemned them as racist. In fact, Keller and the New York Times have a history of condemning anyone who raises important questions about Islam and its growing encroachment on a society that Keller views as justifiably secular.

You can read Bill Keller’s opinion piece here.

What I find striking is that Mr. Erickson seems to focus in on Obama and Islam… especially the latter as nominally Erickson’s editorial is supposedly about “Ignorance” about Christianity.

The difference between Barack Obama in 2008 and Bachmann, Perry, Santorum, et. al. in 2012 is that Obama did not make his religious beliefs central to his political platform (and candidate Obama even went on to disavow Wright), unlike the Christian fundamentalists Perry and Bachmann and Santorum who are explicitly campaigning on their religious beliefs.

There is a difference, a big difference.

In summary, Erickson is simply trying to downplay the looniness of so much of the American Fundamentalism that has taken over the GOP.

Maybe Erick Erickson is ashamed of them, after all?

Jump to bottom

176 comments
1 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 4:11:25am

Erick's straw-man pretext is completely false anyway. Most right wing sites and some Moderate & Dem sites, dug into Wright, his background, & black liberation theology roots exhaustively, and Obama was barraged with questions about him those first few weeks.

This site was among the ones questioning Wright's connection and the theological influence he brought to the presidential candidate's background. Nobody cut Obama any slack on this, (especially not here,) and he had to retreat from his positions on Wright more than once.

So the pretext is just false, history re-invented to fit the right wing pundit's current narrative. Indeed, this just shows once again that the only thing that the right is consistent on post election is their willingness to lie for Jesus.

2 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 4:15:20am

Excellent post Freetoken, this is something I would have missed and I think it's important to keep the spotlight on this because the right will do everything in their power to keep the press from looking behind that curtain.

3 JEA62  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 6:08:10am

Reading Erickson is like "Groundhog Day" in reverse. Different day, same nonsense.

4 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 6:09:24am

That's right Erick, your friends are even more ignorant than you are. Own it. LOL.

I wanted to upding this article, but it seems that I can't even see article ratings much less ding them. Cleared the cache, but still nothing. Help me Charles.

5 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 9:29:06am

I didn't know Perry only believed the earth was 6,500 years old that. This is uh astounding to me in light of the facts.

6 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 9:40:08am

Erickson sure is acting guilty covering for them.

7 Mark Winter  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 9:48:33am

Some Republicans must be older than the earth

8 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 9:50:23am

re: #4 prononymous

That's right Erick, your friends are even more ignorant than you are. Own it. LOL.

I wanted to upding this article, but it seems that I can't even see article ratings much less ding them. Cleared the cache, but still nothing. Help me Charles.

If you're using Firefox with NoScript, disable NoScript. (NoScript is the most common cause of problems.)

9 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:00:55am

Right wingers always lie about the importance of creationism in their ideology. Ever since I began writing on the subject at LGF, right wing commenters have tried to push the same kind of denials: it's unimportant, a minor issue, only a minority believe it, it doesn't matter in the long run, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

If they can convince enough gullible people that these things aren't important, it's much easier for them to sneak creationism into schools (and all the other right wing agendas).

Erickson is just following a long tradition of lying to cover up the right wing's true extremism.

10 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:01:23am
Yes, Rushdoony and Francis Schaeffer were not identical in their beliefs (though the big difference was in their personal lives and practical religion, with Schaeffer remaining engaged with various Evangelical organizations contrasted with Rushdoony isolated in his home estranged even from his son in law, Gary North), just as “dominionism” and “reconstructionism” are not perfectly equivalent.

Well, anything Erick Erickson says on any topic is full of supremacist crap, so I don't know why he bothers trying to distance himself.

That said, "dominionism" is not the same as Christian Reconstruction. There is a lot of overlap with rightwing Evangelicalism (not related to liberal Evangelicalism, ex: of the sort that makes up the Black voting bloc.) Most Republican-voting Christian cons do not follow Reconstruction or Gary North/Rushdoony...those are lewrockwell types who HATE the Republicans.

CRs also do not support Bachmann. They can't stand her, in part for her politics but mostly for her gender.

11 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:29:24am

I'm not a racist, I'm a racial separatist. You're ignorant if you can't tell the difference.

12 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:38:34am

Republicans vs reality (again)....
DeMint: Obama jobs speech 'going to be hard for me to watch'

Speaking later in an appearance on ABC’s “This Week” DeMint added that he was "pretty frustrated with the speech idea and the things that have been leaking out from the White House."

"I don't think the president is going to come out with things that are really going to create jobs I'm afraid it's just pandering to his base," he said. "None of them are like what I've been hearing from businesses all over the country."
....
An extension of payroll taxes, unemployment benefits and tax incentives for hiring aren't what businesses are asking for, DeMint said.

DeMint said on CNN that small business owners say that economic uncertainty is keeping them from hiring.

"What they want is some certainty," he said. "They want the regulators off their back the National Labor Relations Board to stop pushing the union agenda and try to help companies that create jobs."

A recent survey of small businesses by McClatchy countered DeMint's argument, as none of the small businesses asked complained about any regulatory issues and in, most cases, agreed that rules are needed.

Several said the lack of regulation in mortgage lending led to the financial crisis and the recession.

Here's the McClatchy article: Regulations, taxes aren't killing small business, owners say

"I think the rich have to be taxed, sorry," Douglas said. He added that he isn't facing a sea of new regulations but that he does struggle with an old issue, workers' compensation claims.
....
Then there's Rip Daniels. He owns four businesses in Gulfport, Miss.: real estate ventures, a radio station and a boutique hotel/bistro. He said his problem wasn't regulation.

"Absolutely, positively not. What is choking my business is insurance. What's choking all business is insurance. You cannot go into business, any business — small business or large business — unless you can afford insurance," he told Biloxi's Sun Herald.
....He credits the federal stimulus effort with helping to keep some smaller firms afloat.

"It allowed those folks to spend and have money and pay for the essentials," said Daniels, whose business pays corporate taxes. He grudgingly supports closing some business tax deductions to reduce the federal budget deficit.

"Who wants to pay more? I certainly don't. I want to pay my fair share, and I do," Daniels said, adding that he wouldn't resist loophole closures to cut deficits.

13 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:40:04am

So many of the problems in the US today can be traced to anti-intellectualism, fear of science, and denial of separation of church and state. Not just in the political arena, but the way we run companies, the way we think about products, the way advertisers reach out to customers.

Creationism is one of the most extreme version of anti-intellectualism in the US, and it garners strength and gives strength to all the others.

The largest harm the GOP has done America, I feel, is by elevating creationism and other anti-science, anti-intellectual ideologies to a high place. Both through having candidates who actively endorse the positions, and by cultivating the voters who believe this-- rather than confronting them and attempting to educate them, the GOP his highly, highly culpable.

There is no easy solution. Those who are propagating creationism, AGW denial, and all the other anti-scientific banners, need to stop, or be stopped. How, I have no idea.

14 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:42:11am

re: #12 Killgore Trout

I'm a small business owner. Taxes are the absolute least of my concerns. If it were easier for me to get a small business loan, that'd be great. There aren't really any regulations that affect me, other than workplace safety ones that I'd be happy to comply with.

I know some small business owners who have specific regulations that they have problems with, but nobody who says that regulation overall kills them-- except for those who say that regulations are crafted to benefit large corporations at the expense of small ones.

15 aagcobb  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:43:15am

re: #5 HappyWarrior

I didn't know Perry only believed the earth was 6,500 years old that. This is uh astounding to me in light of the facts.

What I do know about Perry is that he put creationists in charge of the Texas State Board of Education.

16 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:45:07am

re: #14 Obdicut

I know some small business owners who have specific regulations that they have problems with, but nobody who says that regulation overall kills them-- except for those who say that regulations are crafted to benefit large corporations at the expense of small ones.

Exaclty. That's why the GOP's job agenda is based on the wishes of mega-corporations instead of actual small business owners.

17 darthstar  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:47:14am

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Exaclty. That's why the GOP's job agenda is based on the wishes of mega-corporations instead of actual small business owners.

The "small businesses" that are affected most by regulations are small businesses like Bechtel...a multi-billion dollar company that lists itself as a "small business".
[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

18 Stanghazi  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:51:24am

On my way to a palm springs get a way. It's already 100 there. Gonna be 110. Gonna live in a pool, I can't wait! Have a great labor day everyone!!

19 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:51:33am

The always shocking heartlessness of conservatives. Instapundit links to this update on the man who died from a dental problem because he couldn't afford treatement: 24-Year-Old Cincinnati Man Dies of Toothache After Brilliantly Filling His Pain Medication Prescription Instead of Antibiotics

And while it's a horribly needless waste of life, it's no one's fault but the man's himself, 24-year-old Kyle Willis, the father of a young girl. Willis decided to ride out the pain. When he was overcome by swelling he checked into the emergency room and the doctors gave him prescriptions for antibiotics and pain medication. Willis, apparently because he was "uninsured," bought the pain killers and blew off the antibiotics. Big mistake.
...
Perhaps he could have borrowed a little money from loved ones.
....
Of course, under our socialist welfare state, the historical culture of personal responsibility and self-sufficiency has been destroyed by the patrimonial socialist handout regime. Big government assumes that people are too stupid and weak to save for a rainy day, or to plan ahead for emergencies. Tucking away a few Jacksons wouldn't have killed this man. His ignorance and lack of discipline did.

Of course it doesn't help that the guy was black....

Oh, and the man was black --- so now I'm going to be attacked as RAAAAACIST for pointing out that stupidity knows no color.

Freakin' progressive "compassion" is killing society's least well prepared for success. And that's what's really sad about this case.

20 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:52:21am

re: #17 darthstar

Son of a bitch.

I'm in the process of trying to set myself up as vendor for the government, and to do so you have to classify your business. I figured that by going after contracts that were only for 'small businesses', I'd actually be competing against my peers.

Not against Bechtel.

21 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:52:41am
Maybe Erick Erickson is ashamed of them, after all?

I find it interesting that someone who writes an "in depth" analysis of this sort doesn't mention where he stands on the actual issue. I suspect it is because Erick is not a creationist, long or short, but would just be a nobody if he couldn't pander.

22 darthstar  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:55:12am

re: #20 Obdicut

I figured that by going after contracts that were only for 'small businesses', I'd actually be competing against my peers.

Not against Bechtel.

Bechtel doesn't have to compete...their contracts are all no-bid contracts.

23 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:55:26am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

If he's like me, antibiotics wipe him out. I can't work, I can't function when I'm on antibiotics.

That article is so chock full of stupidity it's insane. "When all else fails, there's charity." Really? For everyone? Oh, there's no problem then, is there? What's everyone concerned about, because, when all else fails, there's charity.

Do these assholes really believe these lies they tell themselves?

24 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:55:40am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Antibiotics are cheaper than pain medications. The last time I had some they were $5 for a 10 day course.

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:55:54am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

The always shocking heartlessness of conservatives. Instapundit links to this update on the man who died from a dental problem because he couldn't afford treatement: 24-Year-Old Cincinnati Man Dies of Toothache After Brilliantly Filling His Pain Medication Prescription Instead of Antibiotics

Of course it doesn't help that the guy was black...

Well, that's perfectly charming.

26 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:56:36am

re: #24 Naso Tang

Without insurance, they can be hundreds of dollars. Depends on the kind.

27 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:57:44am

re: #23 Obdicut

If he's like me, antibiotics wipe him out. I can't work, I can't function when I'm on antibiotics.

Really? I have never heard that, but some people can be seriously allergic to certain ones. You may need to discuss that with your doctor/dentist.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:57:50am

re: #23 Obdicut

If he's like me, antibiotics wipe him out. I can't work, I can't function when I'm on antibiotics.

That article is so chock full of stupidity it's insane. "When all else fails, there's charity." Really? For everyone? Oh, there's no problem then, is there? What's everyone concerned about, because, when all else fails, there's charity.

Do these assholes really believe these lies they tell themselves?

Of course, assholes like this also consistently bash charities that do this kind of work, so you are left with the unfortunate conclusion that their real belief is that poor people ought to just die already.

29 darthstar  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:58:13am

re: #21 Naso Tang

He's trying to cash in on being a conservative pundit. He got a short gig at CNN where he was probably told he had a face for radio. Erickson's biggest problem will be having the patience to build himself up over several years like Beck and Limbaugh did...but he seems to be taking the Palin route--spew senseless bullshit for attention, then throw a fit if people don't take him seriously.

30 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 10:59:52am

re: #27 Naso Tang

Really? I have never heard that, but some people can be seriously allergic to certain ones. You may need to discuss that with your doctor/dentist.

Nope. It's pretty common.

31 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:02:13am

Let me see if I can make sense of the current left-wing rule on religion. If you're a former democrat president, it's OK to be a christian and go to church. In fact, it's encouraged to, ya know, make sure we cover that demographic for political purposes (wink, wink). If you're the current democrat president, it's also cool. It's OK to be a Muslim politician as well, as long as you belong to the democrat party. Jewish democrat? Not a problem.

But if you're a Republican and you're not an atheist? Unacceptable.

Got it.

32 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:04:41am

re: #24 Naso Tang

Antibiotics are cheaper than pain medications. The last time I had some they were $5 for a 10 day course.

That was probably just the copay from your insurance.

33 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:08:00am

re: #31 rwmofo

Silliness.

34 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:09:17am

re: #31 rwmofo

That was one of your weaker trolling attempts.

35 blueraven  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:09:21am

re: #31 rwmofo

Let me see if I can make sense of the current left-wing rule on religion. If you're a former democrat president, it's OK to be a christian and go to church. In fact, it's encouraged to, ya know, make sure we cover that demographic for political purposes (wink, wink). If you're the current democrat president, it's also cool. It's OK to be a Muslim politician as well, as long as you belong to the democrat party. Jewish democrat? Not a problem.

But if you're a Republican and you're not an atheist? Unacceptable.

Got it.

There are so many straw men in that post, I am impressed that you were able to fit them in the space allotted.

36 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:10:25am

re: #31 rwmofo

Let me see if I can make sense of the current left-wing rule on religion. If you're a former democrat president, it's OK to be a christian and go to church. In fact, it's encouraged to, ya know, make sure we cover that demographic for political purposes (wink, wink). If you're the current democrat president, it's also cool. It's OK to be a Muslim politician as well, as long as you belong to the democrat party. Jewish democrat? Not a problem.

But if you're a Republican and you're not an atheist? Unacceptable.

Got it.

By gum you've figured it out!

37 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:10:37am

Server got a little bogged down there for a few minutes because I was changing one of the database tables. Back to full speed now.

38 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:11:09am

re: #32 Killgore Trout

That was probably just the copay from your insurance.

True. Medicare, but I know from prior experience that common ones like Amoxicillin are cheap. The newest ones for special resistance can be expensive.

39 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:12:17am

re: #37 Charles

Server got a little bogged down there for a few minutes because I was changing one of the database tables. Back to full speed now.

Ahh. So it wasn't me this time.

40 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:14:37am

re: #38 Naso Tang

It may also be that the doctor didn't actually get compliance from the guy. He may have rejected the antibiotics not because of cost, but because not everyone 'gets' antibiotics. Partially because of the anti-science streak in the US, where there's all kinds of doubt about things that should be completely common knowledge.

The guy died because of a bad decision. To not have sympathy for him, to consider him, overall, stupid when there's just this one fact known about him, is contemptible on the part of the shithead that wrote that article.

41 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:15:42am

re: #31 rwmofo

Let me see if I can make sense of the current left-wing rule on religion. If you're a former democrat president, it's OK to be a christian and go to church. In fact, it's encouraged to, ya know, make sure we cover that demographic for political purposes (wink, wink). If you're the current democrat president, it's also cool. It's OK to be a Muslim politician as well, as long as you belong to the democrat party. Jewish democrat? Not a problem.

But if you're a Republican and you're not an atheist? Unacceptable.

Got it.

Do you have a point? Don't think so.

Most liberals don't care if you go to church or not. What bothers us is when you attempt to force your religion on the rest of us.

Please give me one example when Obama or Clinton even suggested that we worship like they do. You can't.

42 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:17:13am

re: #37 Charles
I thought it was me so I rebooted. As long as it is up and running that is what matters.

43 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:18:12am

re: #40 Obdicut

Well, you are doing a lot of speculation of your own; but I agree that this was a sad story that shouldn't have happened whatever the reasons it did.

44 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:19:33am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

The always shocking heartlessness of conservatives. Instapundit links to this update on the man who died from a dental problem because he couldn't afford treatement: 24-Year-Old Cincinnati Man Dies of Toothache After Brilliantly Filling His Pain Medication Prescription Instead of Antibiotics

Of course it doesn't help that the guy was black...

Consider the source. American Power is a blog written by Donald Douglas who teaches history at Long Beach City College. He probably has a dental plan payed for by the California community college system. Another one living off the government system yet constantly railing against the machine.

45 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:21:31am

re: #31 rwmofo

Let me see if I can make sense of the current left-wing rule on religion. If you're a former democrat president, it's OK to be a christian and go to church. In fact, it's encouraged to, ya know, make sure we cover that demographic for political purposes (wink, wink). If you're the current democrat president, it's also cool. It's OK to be a Muslim politician as well, as long as you belong to the democrat party. Jewish democrat? Not a problem.

But if you're a Republican and you're not an atheist? Unacceptable.

Got it.

Who said anything about being an atheist?

46 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:25:26am

re: #45 Gus 802

Who said anything about being an atheist?

Apparently believing the world isn't thousands of years old is Atheism. News to me since I am not an Atheist and believe the world is older than that.

47 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:25:27am

Some people will never get the FINE distinction being BEING religious and ATTEMPTING TO LEGISLATE one's religion.

48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:25:41am

re: #11 BigPapa

I'm not a racist, I'm a racial separatist. You're ignorant if you can't tell the difference.

I'm just a racial realist! I'm being victimized since I'm no longer allowed to reach my full potential as everyone's rulers!!!1

And! The KKK's message is about love now, not hate! Ok so it's love of being white, but still!!!!

So shut up!

kkk.com

49 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:26:00am

re: #47 bratwurst

Some people will never get the FINE distinction being BEING religious and ATTEMPTING TO LEGISLATE one's religion.

Bing-fucking-o.

50 albusteve  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:26:28am

re: #43 Naso Tang

Well, you are doing a lot of speculation of your own; but I agree that this was a sad story that shouldn't have happened whatever the reasons it did.

unless an infection is very rare or massive, like sepsis, antibiotics are pretty cheap....there are several the will kill almost anything...infection anywhere above the neck are nothing to mess with, they can spread very fast....lotsa blood up there

51 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:26:45am

re: #43 Naso Tang

Well, you are doing a lot of speculation of your own; but I agree that this was a sad story that shouldn't have happened whatever the reasons it did.

Of course I'm doing speculation. There's no known facts about it. That's what I'm pointing out.

52 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:27:19am

re: #45 Gus 802

Who said anything about being an atheist?

His boyfriend the Straw Man.

53 recusancy  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:28:10am

Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

It should have been evident to clear-eyed observers that the Republican Party is becoming less and less like a traditional political party in a representative democracy and becoming more like an apocalyptic cult, or one of the intensely ideological authoritarian parties of 20th century Europe. This trend has several implications, none of them pleasant.

...

A couple of years ago, a Republican committee staff director told me candidly (and proudly) what the method was to all this obstruction and disruption. Should Republicans succeed in obstructing the Senate from doing its job, it would further lower Congress's generic favorability rating among the American people. By sabotaging the reputation of an institution of government, the party that is programmatically against government would come out the relative winner.

54 mr.fusion  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:28:43am

I'd like to see the next "raise your hand" question at a GOP debate be, "Raise your hand if you believe the Earth was created 10,000 years ago or sooner."

I doubt anyone would have the onions to leave their hand down.

I would have said Huntsman, but after the "10-1" question I don't know if he could do it.

55 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:30:51am

The interesting thing is some of the biggest internal Republican critics of the religious right have been men who were quite religious themselves. John Danforth from Missouri who wrote a scathing criticism of them in the New York Times is also an ordained Episcopal priest. I have no problem with religious people. I do however have a problem with people like Bryan Fischer who think only their religious views should be part of our culture.

56 Claire  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:31:57am

Generic antibiotics, Cipro, Amoxycillin, etc. run about 50 cents to $1.50 per pill. Guess you'd need typically 30 500 mg pills for a course. $15 to $45 online. Probably a lot cheaper at the pharmacy. It's a shame.

57 albusteve  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:33:24am

re: #56 Claire

Generic antibiotics, Cipro, Amoxycillin, etc. run about 50 cents to $1.50 per pill. Guess you'd need typically 30 500 mg pills for a course. $15 to $45 online. Probably a lot cheaper at the pharmacy. It's a shame.

yup....since the inflammation from infection causes the pain...he did exactly the wrong thing

58 Coracle  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:34:02am

re: #31 rwmofo
Nice line of shit you got there. You may have a future as a fiction writer.

59 recusancy  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:34:11am

re: #53 recusancy

Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

A deeply cynical tactic, to be sure, but a psychologically insightful one that plays on the weaknesses both of the voting public and the news media. There are tens of millions of low-information voters who hardly know which party controls which branch of government, let alone which party is pursuing a particular legislative tactic. These voters' confusion over who did what allows them to form the conclusion that "they are all crooks," and that "government is no good," further leading them to think, "a plague on both your houses" and "the parties are like two kids in a school yard." This ill-informed public cynicism, in its turn, further intensifies the long-term decline in public trust in government that has been taking place since the early 1960s - a distrust that has been stoked by Republican rhetoric at every turn ("Government is the problem," declared Ronald Reagan in 1980).

60 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:34:17am

I imagine that if the Feds tried to create an public awareness program designed to teach the population of the dangers of tooth diseases that the current crop of Republicans would oppose it to no end. And, if such a program does exist they would want to put it on the chopping block.

61 Henchman 25  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:35:23am

re: #31 rwmofo

Remember when I said stupidity can not be concealed? Here's some proof.

62 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:35:27am

There's been an astonishing turn-around in the weather here in Lubbock. Right now it is 62 degrees, cloudy with intermittent showers. This is the lowest temperature for this time of day since April 21st. The overnight low, 54, was the lowest since May. The high Friday was 102 and the low 76.
Goodhair cultists will no doubt cite this as proof that AGW is a hoax after all.

63 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:38:05am

re: #31 rwmofo

Let me see if I can make sense of the current left-wing rule on religion. If you're a former democrat president, it's OK to be a christian and go to church. In fact, it's encouraged to, ya know, make sure we cover that demographic for political purposes (wink, wink). If you're the current democrat president, it's also cool. It's OK to be a Muslim politician as well, as long as you belong to the democrat party. Jewish democrat? Not a problem.

But if you're a Republican and you're not an atheist? Unacceptable.

Got it.

Image: poor+me.jpg

64 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:38:32am

re: #62 Shiplord Kirel

There's been an astonishing turn-around in the weather here in Lubbock. Right now it is 62 degrees, cloudy with intermittent showers. This is the lowest temperature for this time of day since April 21st. The overnight low, 54, was the lowest since May. The high Friday was 102 and the low 76.
Goodhair cultists will no doubt cite this as proof that AGW is a hoax after all.

Yep. If we have long periods of record setting hot temperatures the denialists are silent. If we have just one day of unusually cool or cold temperatures, then they immediately declare, "see climate change is a hoax!"

65 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:39:35am

re: #14 Obdicut

I'm a small business owner. Taxes are the absolute least of my concerns. If it were easier for me to get a small business loan, that'd be great. There aren't really any regulations that affect me, other than workplace safety ones that I'd be happy to comply with.

I'm in the exact same boat. I bitch and complain about these regulations, or more specifically, bitch and complain about the bureaucracy or inanity of rules and regulations. But taxes must be collected, Workmen's Comp must be paid, I'll abide by labor laws that were put there for a reason. I'll bitch and complain about the licensing process but adhere to it because it validates my profession and helps keep unprofessional hacks out.

Every other business has to take care of them. I also have many other things that are more work than the mundane taxes and government administration, it's not going to put me out of business.

As an incentive, each employee gets a Golden Bootstrap at 5 years of service!

66 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:40:19am

re: #62 Shiplord Kirel

There's been an astonishing turn-around in the weather here in Lubbock. Right now it is 62 degrees, cloudy with intermittent showers. This is the lowest temperature for this time of day since April 21st. The overnight low, 54, was the lowest since May. The high Friday was 102 and the low 76.
Goodhair cultists will no doubt cite this as proof that AGW is a hoax after all.

Same here in Kansas this am, but now we have blue skies after the clouds got pushed out. Once the front moves out you might see them as well. It's in the 70's now and beautiful, so I am headed out to work on a retaining wall I've been putting off.

67 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:41:43am

re: #64 Gus 802

Yep. If we have long periods of record setting hot temperatures the denialists are silent. If we have just one day of unusually cool or cold temperatures, then they immediately declare, "see climate change is a hoax!"

The amazing thing is that today's conditions are not all that far from the historical averages. We just tend to see them as extraordinary because conditions have been so extreme this year. Note that the average historical high for August is 90. This past month, the average high was 103, with just two days below 100.

68 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:41:55am

re: #31 rwmofo

I don't take you seriously any more. It's clear you believe about 50% of your bullshit but load up the rest to get a reaction.

69 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:42:29am

Happens in Winter too. We'll have an unusually warm Winter. Silence from the denialists -- other than the usual drivel. When suddenly from out of the blue comes a raging blizzard dumping snow all over the northeast and they'll suddenly speak up and declare, "see, climate change is a hoax!"

70 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:51:22am

Awkward Family Photo in reply to goddamnfrank.

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:56:04am

re: #70 BigPapa

Awkward Family Photo in reply to goddamnfrank.

"Yeah, I got 'em pretty well trained," the bird is thinking.

72 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 11:56:27am

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist
LOL

73 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:02:54pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

"Yeah, I got 'em pretty well trained," the bird is thinking.

I was wunderin if that parrot could fire the AK or had any survivalist training.

74 Henchman 26  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:03:58pm

re: #31 rwmofo

Let me see if I can make sense of the current left-wing rule on religion. If you're a former democrat president, it's OK to be a christian and go to church. In fact, it's encouraged to, ya know, make sure we cover that demographic for political purposes (wink, wink). If you're the current democrat president, it's also cool. It's OK to be a Muslim politician as well, as long as you belong to the democrat party. Jewish democrat? Not a problem.

But if you're a Republican and you're not an atheist? Unacceptable.

Got it.

Not the brightest penny in the outhouse are you?
Care to explain the logical steps you took in coming to this conclusion?

75 Atlas Fails  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:04:19pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Freakin' progressive "compassion" is killing society's least well prepared for success. And that's what's really sad about this case.

No, you evil fuck, what's really sad about this case is that a 24 year-old father died of a damned toothache because the richest country in the world is full of morons like you who think bootstraps are the answer to every problem.

76 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:04:56pm

re: #70 BigPapa
With the large sunglasses I was thinking Witness Protection Program.

77 darthstar  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:05:06pm

re: #70 BigPapa

Awkward Family Photo in reply to goddamnfrank.

That's a sweet velour shirt...practical for cool fall days, yet stylish enough for the disco later that night.

And who puts a scope on a close-combat assault rifle?

78 blueraven  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:06:50pm

Rick Perry definitely uses religion to determine policy. Consider the so called Texas "rainy day fund". What is this for if not to use for a a rainy day? Yet Perry is very reluctant to ever use any of these funds even when we have huge budget deficits. The result is even more budget cuts to education and health services.

Why? Biblical principles?

79 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:10:20pm

Coming soon - you'll be able to create polls for your LGF Pages. The same format as the polls you've seen on the LGF front page.

80 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:10:49pm

re: #75 Atlas Fails

No, you evil fuck, what's really sad about this case is that a 24 year-old father died of a damned toothache because the richest country in the world is full of morons like you who think bootstraps are the answer to every problem.

It sure hits to home knowing that the guy was my age. The bootstraps mentality is aggravating especially for people who have benefited from government assistance. And Instapundit didn't want people to accuse him of being a bigot, he shouldn't have even brought up the fact that the guy black. No one should be dying from toothaches in 2011 America or anywhere frankly.

81 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:11:16pm

re: #79 Charles
Cool.

82 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:12:14pm

re: #78 blueraven

Rick Perry definitely uses religion to determine policy. Consider the so called Texas "rainy day fund". What is this for if not to use for a a rainy day? Yet Perry is very reluctant to ever use any of these funds even when we have huge budget deficits. The result is even more budget cuts to education and health services.

Why? Biblical principles?

[Video]

Perhaps thanks to Perry and other AGW denialists, there are very few rainy days in Texas anymore. I wonder if he'll claim credit?

83 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:13:16pm

re: #75 Atlas Fails

No, you evil fuck, what's really sad about this case is that a 24 year-old father died of a damned toothache because the richest country in the world is full of morons like you who think bootstraps are the answer to every problem.

He's R.S. McCain's best buddy.

84 Atlas Fails  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:14:10pm

re: #82 Shiplord Kirel

Perhaps thanks to Perry and other AGW denialists, there are very few rainy days in Texas anymore. I wonder if he'll claim credit?

No, it'll be because America removed prayer from public schools and allowed teh gay to marry.

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:20:21pm

re: #77 darthstar

That's a sweet velour shirt...practical for cool fall days, yet stylish enough for the disco later that night.

And who puts a scope on a close-combat assault rifle?

Close combat is farther away if you're a parrot.

86 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:22:09pm

re: #79 Charles

Coming soon - you'll be able to create polls for your LGF Pages. The same format as the polls you've seen on the LGF front page.

Polls are for strippers...

87 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:22:22pm

re: #79 Charles

Coming soon - you'll be able to create polls for your LGF Pages. The same format as the polls you've seen on the LGF front page.

Ron Paul!

88 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:28:27pm

re: #79 Charles

Coming soon - you'll be able to create polls for your LGF Pages. The same format as the polls you've seen on the LGF front page.

This place continues to amaze. I see where it's going and think it's really cool.

89 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:29:14pm

re: #77 darthstar

And who puts a scope on a close-combat assault rifle?

It's for the parrot I think.

90 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:46:23pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul!

That gives me an idea. Just make any non-political poll but add Ron Paul at the end. So you'll have something like "What is your favorite TV show, a) Glee b) NCIS c) Twilight or d) Ron Paul?" Then watch Ron Paul win!

//

What is your favorite alcoholic drink?

a. White wine
b. Red wine
c. Beer
d. Whiskey
e. Ron Paul

91 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:50:09pm

re: #90 Gus 802
Practically everytime.//

92 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:51:08pm

re: #91 PhillyPretzel

Practically everytime.//

Chevy, Ford, Volkswagen or Ron Paul?

//

93 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:52:57pm

re: #92 Gus 802
LOL.

94 zora  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:58:42pm

re: #24 Naso Tang

my husband's jaw was wired shut and the liquid antibiotic was $158. so it depends really.

95 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 12:59:28pm

Had any conservative asked Barack Obama these questions in relation to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s theology, Keller would have roundly condemned them as racist

i get increasingly tired of this line of argument that if right wing morons had done something somehow similar then non right wingers would - inevitably, of course, without question, no need to bring actual events into the picture - done such and such, so there, mom he would have hit me first if he could have

96 zora  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:05:04pm

ot: Comedian Speaking Before Palin In Iowa Calls Liberals ‘Special Needs Children’

Minutes before Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and parent of a child with Down syndrome, made her much-anticipated speech in Iowa, Los Angles-based comedian Eric Golub told a joke that compared left-leaning political ideology to "special needs children."

After commending Palin on raising her son Trig while balancing other responsibilities, Golub made the analogy.

"For that reason alone, the left should worship Sarah Palin and adopt her as one of their own," Golub said. "Because the leftist haters are an entire political ideology of special needs children."

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:06:20pm

re: #95 engineer dog

Had any conservative asked Barack Obama these questions in relation to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s theology, Keller would have roundly condemned them as racist

i get increasingly tired of this line of argument that if right wing morons had done something somehow similar then non right wingers would - inevitably, of course, without question, no need to bring actual events into the picture - done such and such, so there, mom he would have hit me first if he could have

Plus, that's all cons did was that; if they were called "racist" it's because as usual they know/learn/understand nothing about black people, let alone "Rev. Jeremiah Wright's theology."

He's a minister in one of the whitest denominations in the country, not that any of them know what the United Church of Christ is, outside what the Fox Victory Mosque told them to think about it.

98 gamark  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:07:50pm

re: #94 zora

my husband's jaw was wired shut and the liquid antibiotic was $158. so it depends really.

Did he forget your birthday?

99 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:08:37pm

re: #96 zora

ot: Comedian Speaking Before Palin In Iowa Calls Liberals ‘Special Needs Children’

Minutes before Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and parent of a child with Down syndrome, made her much-anticipated speech in Iowa, Los Angles-based comedian Eric Golub told a joke that compared left-leaning political ideology to "special needs children."

Hm and let's guess what's next...anybody who doesn't laugh is being politically correct. Forget that the "joke" wasn't even funny, you will lockstep and laugh when your betters laugh, or else!

100 Atlas Fails  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:08:50pm

re: #96 zora

ot: Comedian Speaking Before Palin In Iowa Calls Liberals ‘Special Needs Children’

Minutes before Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and parent of a child with Down syndrome, made her much-anticipated speech in Iowa, Los Angles-based comedian Eric Golub told a joke that compared left-leaning political ideology to "special needs children."

After commending Palin on raising her son Trig while balancing other responsibilities, Golub made the analogy.

"For that reason alone, the left should worship Sarah Palin and adopt her as one of their own," Golub said. "Because the leftist haters are an entire political ideology of special needs children."

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Hurr hurr, libruls is 'tards.

101 jaunte  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:13:44pm

re: #100 Atlas Fails

Golub is just another troll given artificial life by Breitbart.

102 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:14:36pm

re: #90 Gus 802

That gives me an idea. Just make any non-political poll but add Ron Paul at the end. So you'll have something like "What is your favorite TV show, a) Glee b) NCIS c) Twilight or d) Ron Paul?" Then watch Ron Paul win!

//

What is your favorite alcoholic drink?

a. White wine
b. Red wine
c. Beer
d. Whiskey
e. Ron Paul

re: #101 jaunte

Golub is just another troll given artificial life by Breitbart.

What, no option for "JOOOOOOOOOS!!!!!"?

//

103 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:18:01pm

*pokes thread with a stick*

104 jaunte  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:18:12pm

Nice summer job experience:

18-Year Old Student Discovers Comet Break-Up
During a summer work experience placement, the British student also helped with the discovery of over 20 asteroids.

105 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:20:05pm

I had some cement work done today and it is slowly drying. I hope it will be partially cured by the time it starts to rain.

106 blueraven  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:20:16pm

re: #101 jaunte

Golub is just another troll given artificial life by Breitbart.

Bootstraps!

107 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:20:36pm

re: #103 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*pokes thread with a stick*

Braaaaiiiins!

108 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:21:20pm

re: #96 zora

ot: Comedian Speaking Before Palin In Iowa Calls Liberals ‘Special Needs Children’

Minutes before Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and parent of a child with Down syndrome, made her much-anticipated speech in Iowa, Los Angles-based comedian Eric Golub told a joke that compared left-leaning political ideology to "special needs children."

After commending Palin on raising her son Trig while balancing other responsibilities, Golub made the analogy.

"For that reason alone, the left should worship Sarah Palin and adopt her as one of their own," Golub said. "Because the leftist haters are an entire political ideology of special needs children."

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Well remember her response was when Limbaugh basically called liberals retarded. He was defended as a "satirist" but Rahm Emanuel was a terrible person for blowing off steam in private. I suspect Sarah will be silent on this too.

109 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:22:29pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Braaaiiins!

Check the fridge, top shelf, behind the arugula.

/

110 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:23:33pm

re: #96 zora

ot: Comedian Speaking Before Palin In Iowa Calls Liberals ‘Special Needs Children’

Minutes before Sarah Palin, former Alaska governor and parent of a child with Down syndrome, made her much-anticipated speech in Iowa, Los Angles-based comedian Eric Golub told a joke that compared left-leaning political ideology to "special needs children."

After commending Palin on raising her son Trig while balancing other responsibilities, Golub made the analogy.

"For that reason alone, the left should worship Sarah Palin and adopt her as one of their own," Golub said. "Because the leftist haters are an entire political ideology of special needs children."

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Let's go to the video tape:

[Link: videoshare.politico.com...]

Hmmm, looks like 35 people showed up. He looks and sounds like a dweeb.

111 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:25:34pm

re: #31 rwmofo

Lt m s f cn mk sns f th crrnt lft-wng rl n rlgn. f y'r frmr dmcrt prsdnt, t's K t b chrstn nd g t chrch. n fct, t's ncrgd t, y knw, mk sr w cvr tht dmgrphc fr pltcl prpss (wnk, wnk). f y'r th crrnt dmcrt prsdnt, t's ls cl. t's K t b Mslm pltcn s wll, s lng s y blng t th dmcrt prt. Jwsh dmcrt? Nt prblm.

Bt f y'r Rpblcn nd y'r nt n thst? nccptbl.

Gt t.

If you actually believe anything in what you just wrote, rather than you just gaming for political points, than I truly feel sorry for you, because it takes a special kind of willful ignorance and cognitive dissonance to hold the positions that you apparently do.

112 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:26:12pm

re: #109 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Check the fridge, top shelf, behind the arugula.

/

Ah, Ketchup too. Nice!

113 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:28:23pm

Big Hollywood/Big Government has to be the biggest collection of bitter, right wing, washed up and no talent Hollywood has beens on the internet. It's a very strange place. Much like the founder, Andrew Breitbart who I still contend morphed into a conservative because he was rejected by Hollywood for not having any talent to speak of.

114 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:29:18pm

re: #109 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Check the fridge, top shelf, behind the arugula.

/

Or underneath the fridge...

115 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:29:24pm

The thing about Palin is she possesses a blatant double standard about jokes about the mentally disabled. As I mentioned, she went off on Rahm Emanuel but had no problem with Limbaugh. And then there was her little war against Seth MacFarlane and Family Guy when Family Guy had a character with Downs whose "father was an accountant and mother was the former governor of Alaska." Palin and her older kids made that out to be an attack on her son and the irony was an actress with Downs herself played that role. She has no problem with people like Rush and this hack of a comedian calling liberals mentally disabled. I hate to sound like a jerk but I really think she exploits her son's condition. I feel bad for the kid really. First for having Downs and having his mother use him as a crutch from criticism. I still think the worst thing Palin and her fans did was spread the vicious lie that liberals hate special needs kids. I have Asperger's Syndrome myself and I had a grandfather's sister was someone he loved very much and made him despite a fairly modest income charitable to kids with Downs. Sorry for the tangent but I hate what Palin has done with special needs as an issue. It's a very real one for many families and she uses it for political gain and it's sick.

116 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:30:02pm

re: #75 Atlas Fails

No, you evil fuck, what's really sad about this case is that a 24 year-old father died of a damned toothache because the richest country in the world is full of morons like you who think bootstraps are the answer to every problem.

To be clear, Killgore didn't write that, that was a quote from Instapundit.

117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:30:11pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Big Hollywood/Big Government has to be the biggest collection of bitter, right wing, washed up and no talent Hollywood has beens on the internet. It's a very strange place. Much like the founder, Andrew Breitbart who I still contend morphed into a conservative because he was rejected by Hollywood for not having any talent to speak of.

Another can't-compete con.

118 Atlas Fails  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:34:43pm

re: #116 talon_262

To be clear, Killgore didn't write that, that was a quote from that source.

I know. I hope I didn't cause any confusion.

119 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:35:24pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Big Hollywood/Big Government has to be the biggest collection of bitter, right wing, washed up and no talent Hollywood has beens on the internet. It's a very strange place. Much like the founder, Andrew Breitbart who I still contend morphed into a conservative because he was rejected by Hollywood for not having any talent to speak of.

Well, Hollywood has a need for talentless hacks as well. I mean, if it didn't, then we wouldn't get such gems as Atlas Shrugged, Part I.

///

120 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:37:06pm

re: #118 Atlas Fails

I know. I hope I didn't cause any confusion.

No worries. I'm completely unconfused.

121 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:39:01pm

re: #117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Another can't-compete con.

Some of creepiest RWNJs are former leftists. I call them born-again-conservative. A lot of this as you know was part of the aftermath of 9/11. "I used to think I was a liberal until 9/11 happened..."

122 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:42:22pm

re: #121 Gus 802

I saw a lot of that in 2001-2002.

123 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:42:30pm

Or the ones whose ex-wife was a liberal and then he morphs into a stark raving right winger. Almost consciously acquiring the worst stereotypes of the right wing just to "get back" at the ex.

124 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:45:15pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Some of creepiest RWNJs are former leftists. I call them born-again-conservative. A lot of this as you know was part of the aftermath of 9/11. "I used to think I was a liberal until 9/11 happened..."

Yeah, there were a great deal of us who were bushwhacked by 9/11 and spent a few months/years venturing through the Cursed Earth. Some eventually regained their sanity and realized what they'd been party to and declared "Never Again." Others...well, tragedy affects everyone in different ways.

125 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:46:41pm

I believe Breitbart himself claims he was a leftist. The best example of what Gus goes born again conservatives I think is David Horowitz. Here's a guy who was more further to the left than most of us here have ever been right down to being a commie and then he becomes an equally nutty right winger. I know it wasn't 9-11 that changed him but he's who I thought of. In history, the big example if Benito Mussolini, goes from being a socialist to fascist. You hear more about people moving from left to right than from right to left.

126 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:47:09pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Some of creepiest RWNJs are former leftists. I call them born-again-conservative. A lot of this as you know was part of the aftermath of 9/11. "I used to think I was a liberal until 9/11 happened..."

David Horowitz is their poster child:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

127 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:48:27pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb

David Horowitz is their poster child:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Beat ya to it :). But yes. This guy was more of a leftist than most of hte professors he wants to blacklist.

128 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:48:49pm

re: #125 HappyWarrior

I believe Breitbart himself claims he was a leftist. The best example of what Gus goes born again conservatives I think is David Horowitz. Here's a guy who was more further to the left than most of us here have ever been right down to being a commie and then he becomes an equally nutty right winger. I know it wasn't 9-11 that changed him but he's who I thought of. In history, the big example if Benito Mussolini, goes from being a socialist to fascist. You hear more about people moving from left to right than from right to left.

Robert Spencer used to work at a Marxist book store. And then some. I was listening to a Robert Bork interview once and he mentioned being drawn towards Communism when he was a teenager. He didn't really elaborate much more than that. Norm Coleman was an anti-Vietnam war protester. Etc., etc., etc.

129 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:49:18pm

re: #127 HappyWarrior

Beat ya to it :). But yes. This guy was more of a leftist than most of hte professors he wants to blacklist.

Real bummer--I had every copy of Ramparts in the 60s.

130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:50:30pm

re: #129 Decatur Deb

Real bummer--I had every copy of Ramparts in the 60s.

I have some vintage ones from the 60s-early 70s. He is such a dork.

131 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:51:11pm

re: #128 Gus 802

Robert Spencer used to work at a Marxist book store. And then some. I was listening to a Robert Bork interview once and he mentioned being drawn towards Communism when he was a teenager. He didn't really elaborate much more than that. Norm Coleman was an anti-Vietnam war protester. Etc., etc., etc.

Didn't know that about Spencer and Bork. Coleman is no shock since he was a Democrat when he was mayor of St. Paul, a conservative one a St. Paul native friend told me but still.

132 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:52:40pm

re: #124 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, there were a great deal of us who were bushwhacked by 9/11 and spent a few months/years venturing through the Cursed Earth. Some eventually regained their sanity and realized what they'd been party and declared "Never Again." Others...well, tragedy affects everyone in different ways.

I kind of got drawn into it myself. It was probably more a form of PTSD. But mostly it was for supporting the "war on terror." Otherwise I invariably found myself surround by xenophobes, homophobes, transphobes, Muslim haters, creationists, racists, assholes, anti-atheist Bible thumpers. You name it. I couldn't believe the crap I used to read at Breitbart.tv. One second I'd be all gung-ho about the "war effort" and the next I'd be reading some fucked up homophobic comment. Finally realized that I had little in common with that crew.

133 Lidane  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:53:09pm

re: #111 talon_262

If you actually believe anything in what you just wrote, rather than you just gaming for political points, than I truly feel sorry for you, because it takes a special kind of willful ignorance and cognitive dissonance to hold the positions that you apparently do.

That kind of willfull ignorance and cognitive dissonance is very, very common on the brain-dead far right. It's how Fox News, Ann Coulter, and the rest of the howler monkeys make money -- they appeal to that ignorance repeatedly.

134 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:55:29pm

There's a story I read that Reagan was rejected by the Los Angeles Democratic Party for a run for city council or maybe it was Congress because he was seen as too leftist. Lot of the writers who published some of the craziest anti-Communist poleomics of the Cold War were former Communists themselves. Maybe it's just that there are more prominent leftists turned rightists but I can think of very few people who started hard right and ended up on the left that are prominent. The best example I can think of is Hilary Clinton, former Goldwater supporter but I also read that she was a big Nelson Rockefeller fan as well and Rocky was hardly a right winger.

135 Lidane  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:55:54pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Some of creepiest RWNJs are former leftists. I call them born-again-conservative. A lot of this as you know was part of the aftermath of 9/11. "I used to think I was a liberal until 9/11 happened..."

It goes back to the old slogan of a conservative being a liberal that got mugged/robbed. A lot of people freaked out after 9/11 and became hardcore right wingers.

Funny thing is, 9/11 reinforced my liberal beliefs. It didn't change them.

136 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:56:04pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

Didn't know that about Spencer and Bork. Coleman is no shock since he was a Democrat when he was mayor of St. Paul, a conservative one a St. Paul native friend told me but still.

Here's this about Spencer:

According to a 2010 interview in New York magazine, Spencer's father worked for the Voice of America during the Cold War, and in his younger days, Spencer himself worked at Revolution Books, a Communist bookstore in New York City founded by Robert Avakian.

137 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:57:00pm

re: #136 Gus 802

Here's this about Spencer:

Thanks. I've heard of Bob Avakian, I believe he's one of the few prominent American Maoists.

138 blueraven  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:57:24pm

re: #128 Gus 802

Robert Spencer used to work at a Marxist book store. And then some. I was listening to a Robert Bork interview once and he mentioned being drawn towards Communism when he was a teenager. He didn't really elaborate much more than that. Norm Coleman was an anti-Vietnam war protester. Etc., etc., etc.

See also: Michael Weiner Savage

139 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:57:45pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Thanks. I've heard of Bob Avakian, I believe he's one of the few prominent American Maoists.

OK. Make that Maoist instead of Marxist. Kind of within the same range. :)

140 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:58:19pm

re: #134 HappyWarrior

There's a story I read that Reagan was rejected by the Los Angeles Democratic Party for a run for city council or maybe it was Congress because he was seen as too leftist. Lot of the writers who published some of the craziest anti-Communist poleomics of the Cold War were former Communists themselves. Maybe it's just that there are more prominent leftists turned rightists but I can think of very few people who started hard right and ended up on the left that are prominent. The best example I can think of is Hilary Clinton, former Goldwater supporter but I also read that she was a big Nelson Rockefeller fan as well and Rocky was hardly a right winger.

Almost voted for Hilary in the primary, but have no illusions about her liberalism. She's about as liberal as you can be and serve on the board of Walmart.

141 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 1:59:22pm

There was a period where I thought I was moderate circa 2006-7. Some aspects of the left upset me and I thought I may be pro life. Heck I still have some sympathy for that belief but I despise the political movement behind it. I also thought that there was a possibility that I could vote McCain since I thought 2008 McCain may end up like 2000 McCain but he wasn't and as a younger voter, I must give Obama praise for not doing the usual crap politicians pull with younger voters.

142 jaunte  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:00:07pm

re: #133 Lidane

That kind of willfull ignorance and cognitive dissonance is very, very common on the brain-dead far right. It's how Fox News, Ann Coulter, and the rest of the howler monkeys make money -- they appeal to that ignorance repeatedly.

It seems to be an easy voting bloc to appeal to:

Political science: why rejecting expertise has become a campaign strategy (and why it scares me)

"...a candidate who rejects science can apparently use that position to attract the support of somewhere above a quarter of the electorate."

143 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:00:17pm

re: #132 Gus 802

I kind of got drawn into it myself. It was probably more a form of PTSD. But mostly it was for supporting the "war on terror." Otherwise I invariably found myself surround by xenophobes, homophobes, transphobes, Muslim haters, creationists, racists, assholes, anti-atheist Bible thumpers. You name it. I couldn't believe the crap I used to read at Breitbart.tv. One second I'd be all gung-ho about the "war effort" and the next I'd be reading some fucked up homophobic comment. Finally realized that I had little in common with that crew.

Took a little longer with me. I become a quisling, so convinced of the righteousness of the conservative cause that I was mouthing a lot of the same bullshit arguments that they were. I avoided a lot of the phobias outright, but I still went along with the arguements. "Sanctity of marriage," "esprit de corps," "fight them over there," etc.

Then I came back here, and got bitch-slapped by reality. It still stings a little...

144 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:01:27pm

re: #140 Decatur Deb

Almost voted for Hilary in the primary, but have no illusions about her liberalism. She's about as liberal as you can be and serve on the board of Walmart.

True, I just can't think of too many prominent Democrats, liberal pundits, theorists, etc who started out on the right. I've always been fairly to the left. In my teenage years I was more populist than I am now if that counts for anything. I've become more like my Dad's parents than my Mom's who had a bigger political influence on me due to them being alive and aware. Both sets Democrats but different kinds of Democrats.

145 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:01:37pm

re: #143 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Welcome back, comrade. Re-education starts at noon on the 6th.

146 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:03:09pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

There was a period where I thought I was moderate circa 2006-7. Some aspects of the left upset me and I thought I may be pro life. Heck I still have some sympathy for that belief but I despise the political movement behind it. I also thought that there was a possibility that I could vote McCain since I thought 2008 McCain may end up like 2000 McCain but he wasn't and as a younger voter, I must give Obama praise for not doing the usual crap politicians pull with younger voters.

I think, in a way, that's how I feel about it all. I don't hate the concepts themselves so much as the knuckle-draggers who are espousing them. It's hard to take the "pro-life" arguments seriously when the other guy is holding up a picket sign screaming about how abortion doctors are going to Hell.

147 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:03:19pm

re: #143 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

For me, I used to be a snot-nosed libertarian until I went to college, met some kids from really disadvantaged backgrounds, and realized how important all those little factors in my background were to my success.

I need to write a page about it. Maybe tomorrow. I'm still holding off my post-birthday hangover.

148 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:03:19pm

Well there is the guy, Chris Coons who started out as a moderate Republican than became a "bearded Marxist" but the bearded Marxist thing was a joke more less between him and his pals rather than an actual Marxist like Jim DeMint stupidly claimed. Coons is hte senator from Delaware, the one that beat the witch, O'Donnell.

149 freetoken  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:03:54pm

re: #21 Naso Tang

I find it interesting that someone who writes an "in depth" analysis of this sort doesn't mention where he stands on the actual issue. I suspect it is because Erick is not a creationist, long or short, but would just be a nobody if he couldn't pander.

Erickson has made it pretty clear that his website, RedState, is to be a "conservative", not libertarian, site and that he is "both a Christian and a conservative"

He apparently is an old earth creationist:

I’m not sure when so many smart people became so stupid, but suddenly as a Christian who believes in creation, Kathleen Parker, Bill Keller, Ryan Lizza, and others want me to know I think the world was created 6500 years ago, not the 4.5 billion or so years ago I’ve always thought.

Certainly secularists and evolution get beat up on RedState.

150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:03:56pm

My wife just asked me if I wanted some of the chicken enchiladas before she put them up.

The she looked at me for a minute before she realized what had just happened.

Was pretty funny. She has met me.

151 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:06:28pm

I started right and seemed to have moved left but the process continues. Shied away from the left since listening to my family who were dogmatically left. Even back then, not knowing much, I sensed something wrong with it. Once I heard 'the other side' a lot of it seemed sensible to me. But it really wasn't.

My family seemed to be on the right side of many issues but in the wrong way, which I rejected altogether. I traveled to another way of thinking, and it turns out that political movement is on the wrong side in the wrong ways, so I'm dealing with that.

I rejected one way of thinking only to fall into another problematic way of thinking. But better late than never I guess.

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:06:35pm

re: #147 Obdicut

Happy post-birthday.

153 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:07:59pm

re: #146 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think, in a way, that's how I feel about it all. I don't hate the concepts themselves so much as the knuckle-draggers who are espousing them. It's hard to take the "pro-life" arguments seriously when the other guy is holding up a picket sign screaming about how abortion doctors are going to Hell.

Or worse. There's a lesson there about how to deliver one's messages and whom we associate with. When the pro-life movement associates themselves with the Randall Terrys and the Army of God they only harm their message. Of course others would argue that those two examples are by and large the pro-life movement. In any case, it's more or less about trying to catch more bees with honey. But that can't be a ploy either where on the face of things someone or some group is acting nicely yet has sinister long term motives.

154 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:09:40pm

re: #147 Obdicut

For me, I used to be a snot-nosed libertarian until I went to college, met some kids from really disadvantaged backgrounds, and realized how important all those little factors in my background were to my success.

I need to write a page about it. Maybe tomorrow. I'm still holding off my post-birthday hangover.

I once considered libertarianism, then I looked at the spokespeople and realized that I'm not in that crowd. I agreed with a lot of the ideas at the time, still do to some degree, but the cognitive dissonance is simply too loud to take any of it seriously. When you've got Luap Nor preaching one moment about people's rights, then the next arguing in favor of banning abortion, it pretty much falls flat.

155 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:10:35pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She probably thought she was with her other husband.

156 blueraven  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:12:57pm

re: #155 Obdicut

She probably thought she was with her other husband.

The sweet skinny carnivore?

157 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:12:58pm

SIPS
(Shit I've Previously Said)

Global Warming? Why is Greenland called Greenland? It was warm before.

Lower taxes increase tax roles and make more money

Lower regulations

Luckily I didn't chime up too much about how much I wanted Palin to do well. Hoo boy.

158 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:13:45pm

re: #146 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think, in a way, that's how I feel about it all. I don't hate the concepts themselves so much as the knuckle-draggers who are espousing them. It's hard to take the "pro-life" arguments seriously when the other guy is holding up a picket sign screaming about how abortion doctors are going to Hell.

That and many of them don't seem to give a damn about the welfare of mother and child post-birth. I had a secular upbringing but I was sympathetic to the parts of Catholicism that argued for helping out after birth. I was and to a degree still am drawn to the consistency of life ethic. The political pro life movement has always irked me the wrong way going back to the kids in the neighborhood I grew up in bragging about harassing people at abortion clinics. That always bothered me. Plus, their folks looked down on mine since my parents were live and let live when it came to religion. I remember hearing that I was baptized only due to my mom's parents pressuring my parents. Of course, the weird thing is I have long felt culturally Catholic despite my growing skepticism to religion. I wear a St. Patrick medallion on my neck, think highly of my great uncle who was a priest, and cherish my godparents

159 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:20:46pm

re: #139 Gus 802

OK. Make that Maoist instead of Marxist. Kind of within the same range. :)

Not quite the same thing.

I'm halfway to being a Marxist, and want nothing to do with Maoism, at all, in any way, shape or form.

Keep in mind Marxism is basically comprised of two parts: 1. A criticism of the inherent dangers of capitalism, and 2., a structured idea of what should replace capitalism.

I buy into part 1, and think Marx was completely looney regarding part 2.

160 Gus  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:21:13pm

re: #158 HappyWarrior

That and many of them don't seem to give a damn about the welfare of mother and child post-birth. I had a secular upbringing but I was sympathetic to the parts of Catholicism that argued for helping out after birth. I was and to a degree still am drawn to the consistency of life ethic. The political pro life movement has always irked me the wrong way going back to the kids in the neighborhood I grew up in bragging about harassing people at abortion clinics. That always bothered me. Plus, their folks looked down on mine since my parents were live and let live when it came to religion. I remember hearing that I was baptized only due to my mom's parents pressuring my parents. Of course, the weird thing is I have long felt culturally Catholic despite my growing skepticism to religion. I wear a St. Patrick medallion on my neck, think highly of my great uncle who was a priest, and cherish my godparents

So I was just asking myself. If the GOP and other groups are so concerned about being pro-life why is their only goal to limit abortions? Their whole agenda is negative base. Instead they could be positively based and choose to push for alternative that can help reduce overall abortion rates such as: pre and post natal care; education; long term child health care; streamlining the adoption process and perhaps adding incentives to adopting; etc. Many of the same services that can be provided for by Planned Parenthood. But there is no advocacy for single mothers from the right.

161 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:28:22pm

re: #160 Gus 802

So I was just asking myself. If the GOP and other groups are so concerned about being pro-life why is their only goal to limit abortions? Their whole agenda is negative base. Instead they could be positively based and choose to push for alternative that can help reduce overall abortion rates such as: pre and post natal care; education; long term child health care; streamlining the adoption process and perhaps adding incentives to adopting; etc. Many of the same services that can be provided for by Planned Parenthood. But there is no advocacy for single mothers from the right.

Right, that's what has long perplexed me. You don't see prominent politicians on the right supporting things like helping unwed mothers out. It seems that the only goal is to guilt strict women who choose to get abortions and I find that wrong. It's an issue that really gnaws at me for personal reasons that I won't get in to. I really think that if there was a more concerted effort to help women out as well as stop guilt stricking them, I'd sympathize with the movement more. And of course the demonetization and in some cases murders of doctors outrages me as well as the attempts to rationalize those attacks.

162 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:28:28pm

re: #160 Gus 802

So I was just asking myself. If the GOP and other groups are so concerned about being pro-life why is their only goal to limit abortions? Their whole agenda is negative base. Instead they could be positively based and choose to push for alternative that can help reduce overall abortion rates such as: pre and post natal care; education; long term child health care; streamlining the adoption process and perhaps adding incentives to adopting; etc. Many of the same services that can be provided for by Planned Parenthood. But there is no advocacy for single mothers from the right.

There's no real advocacy beyond the one that seems to harken back to the basest, most misogynist views of "tradition." To be honest, I think in a lot of ways what we see today is the result of aging Boomers looking at modern society and yearning for the "Leave it to Beaver," nostalgia-fueled view of what life was like "back in the day."

Too many of them remind me of Haley Barber, arguing that he didn't remember there being much racism where he grew up back in the 50s. Let's be honest, most of have an idealized view of what things were like when we were kids. Many of us grew up listening to our parents telling us "Don't worry about that," or "It's something grown-ups have to deal with."

163 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:30:58pm

re: #158 HappyWarrior

I'm an atheist to the core, but I have always respected the good work the church does in the town in which I grew up. They feed the hungry, clothe the poor, educate the ignorant, and help people find meaning in a crazy world. I can respect that.

There's aspects of it that drive me batty, such as the teachings opposing the use of contraception, the habit of the church to protect child molestors, etc., but that doesn't change my impression that they do good works. It seems to me that if an institution really does help build interconnected communities and ACTS on the teachings in the new testament, I am all for it. even though I don't really believe that Jesus existed as described in the bible, that doesn't mean I don't think that the core of the message is absolutely morally correct.

The golden rule is one of the most perfect and succinct distillations of a good moral code I have ever heard.

164 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:36:31pm

re: #162 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

There's no real advocacy beyond the one that seems to harken back to the basest, most misogynist views of "tradition." To be honest, I think in a lot of ways what we see today is the result of aging Boomers looking at modern society and yearning for the "Leave it to Beaver," nostalgia-fueled view of what life was like "back in the day."

Too many of them remind me of Haley Barber, arguing that he didn't remember there being much racism where he grew up back in the 50s. Let's be honest, most of have an idealized view of what things were like when we were kids. Many of us grew up listening to our parents telling us "Don't worry about that," or "It's something grown-ups have to deal with."

Interesting story about the 50's that my Dad told me and one he's not particularly proud of but he called his older brother a little n-word. My grandfather told him flat out that he didn't want to hear that word ever again. To clarify, my dad was growing up in 1950's sergerated Virginia. My dad's parents were both from Pittsburgh though and had black classmates. It's stories like that make me proud to share 2/3's a name with him. Never knew him as he died before I was born but he was a liberal in the best sense of the word. Open minded, intellectually curious, and knew how to have a good time.

165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:40:42pm

re: #162 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Let's be honest, most of have an idealized view of what things were like when we were kids.

Not really, no.

166 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:42:24pm

re: #163 Fozzie Bear

I'm an atheist to the core, but I have always respected the good work the church does in the town in which I grew up. They feed the hungry, clothe the poor, educate the ignorant, and help people find meaning in a crazy world. I can respect that.

There's aspects of it that drive me batty, such as the teachings opposing the use of contraception, the habit of the church to protect child molestors, etc., but that doesn't change my impression that they do good works. It seems to me that if an institution really does help build interconnected communities and ACTS on the teachings in the new testament, I am all for it. even though I don't really believe that Jesus existed as described in the bible, that doesn't mean I don't think that the core of the message is absolutely morally correct.

The golden rule is one of the most perfect and succinct distillations of a good moral code I have ever heard.

I think you underscored how I feel about the church and the Golden Rule as a whole. I odn't know what I am spritually these days really. Just try to live life the best I can and have some fun doing it. A simple code.

167 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 2:50:15pm

re: #165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Not really, no.

Hence the qualifier "most," rather than "all."

168 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 3:48:23pm

re: #149 freetoken

Erickson has made it pretty clear that his website, RedState, is to be a "conservative", not libertarian, site and that he is "both a Christian and a conservative"

He apparently is an old earth creationist:

I’m not sure when so many smart people became so stupid, but suddenly as a Christian who believes in creation, Kathleen Parker, Bill Keller, Ryan Lizza, and others want me to know I think the world was created 6500 years ago, not the 4.5 billion or so years ago I’ve always thought.

Certainly secularists and evolution get beat up on RedState.

I have never understood how a creationist can believe the earth is 4.5 billion years old (and presumably that the universe is another 10 billion or so older) without either going to ID (God tinkers now and then) or believing evolution is god's design (IE Catholic).

Cognitive Dissonance I suppose.

169 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 3:50:58pm

re: #165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Not really, no.

He did say "most of us"; I sort of include myself in that, but realize that looking at growing up with rose-colored glasses really depends on individual circumstances, I suppose.

But, as an adult, I realize that my perspective on how I grew up depended greatly on the fact that I just wasn't as experienced about the world as I am now. It's not that the world was necessarily any better or simpler, only that to me at the time, they seemed that way.

170 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 3:54:11pm

re: #166 HappyWarrior

I think you underscored how I feel about the church and the Golden Rule as a whole. I odn't know what I am spritually these days really. Just try to live life the best I can and have some fun doing it. A simple code.

It's all anyone can ask.

171 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 4:42:36pm

re: #8 Charles

If you're using Firefox with NoScript, disable NoScript. (NoScript is the most common cause of problems.)

I tried it but no luck. After a little testing I have found it is only happening with the recent Firefox nightlies. I would submit a bug report but I have no idea what is causing it. So I suppose I'll just wait for them to fix it.

172 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 5:20:49pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Do these assholes really believe these lies they tell themselves?

Yes, they do.

173 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 7:42:14pm

Evening all!

What is the plan?

174 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 4, 2011 9:23:24pm

re: #167 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hence the qualifier "most," rather than "all."

Well, tbf, I did say "not really, no" as opposed to an absolute no.

You might be surprised at just how many people knew the sheen of childhood innocence was just a facade.

175 gfct  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:39:36pm

I'm new to this site, and a liberal. You folks remind me of the conservatives of my youth (I'm on the downhill half of my fifties): smart and honest and interesting. It's good to know you're out there.

176 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 12:05:28pm

re: #175 gfct

I'm new to this site, and a liberal. You folks remind me of the conservatives of my youth (I'm on the downhill half of my fifties): smart and honest and interesting. It's good to know you're out there.

"We" aren't really conservatives. We're a mix. And from what I've seen, liberals probably outnumber conservatives here.


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