Fox News Deceptively Edits Video to Smear Teamsters Pres. Hoffa

Absolutely blatant lying from Fox
Media • Views: 37,208

This is one of the sleaziest, most dishonest things I’ve ever seen Fox News do. People need to start seriously asking what’s going on with a news organization that would try to pull something like this.

The right wing blogs and media have been going ballistic all day about the latest outrageous outrage, screaming about a speech by Teamsters President James Hoffa, Jr., at a Labor Day event in Detroit, at which President Obama also appeared.

The reason they’re all worked up into a righteously indignant lather: Fox News aired a flat-out dishonest, edited version of Hoffa’s speech, deliberately doctored to remove a crucial point and make it look as though Hoffa was calling for violence and civil war.

This is the edited clip aired repeatedly by Fox News today:

Video

And there is another version of this edited clip, with an even more blatant cut, here at RealClearPolitics.

This is how RealClearPolitics reported the quote:

“We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They’ve got a war, they got a war with us and there’s only going to be one winner. It’s going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We’re going to win that war,” Jimmy Hoffa Jr. said to a heavily union crowd.

“President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let’s take these son of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong,” Hoffa added.

And now, the truth.

ABC News has an unedited clip (even though the text of their article has the misleading quote!), and as you can see, Fox doctored their videos to remove a critical part of Hoffa’s remarks, to make it look as though he was calling for physical violence — when in reality, Hoffa was calling on workers to vote!

This really takes the cake, Fox News.

Click for Video

An actual, unedited transcript of Hoffa’s remarks:

We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They’ve got a war, they got a war with us and there’s only going to be one winner. It’s going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We’re going to win that war.

President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. AndPresident Obama, we want one thing: jobs, jobs, jobs… That’s what we’re going to tell him. He’s gonna be … and when he sees what we’re doing here, he will be inspired. But he needs help. And you know what? Everybody here’s got to vote. If we go back, and we keep the eye on the prize, let’s take these son of a bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong.

Also see
Fox Doctors Hoffa Speech To Fabricate Call For Violence

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680 comments
1 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:55:18pm

As Steve said downstairs, Fox is setting up the narrative for the election season - Obama pals around with union thugs who will use violence to win his re-election.

A disgusting tactic, but it is Fox we're talking about here. Expect all the other screaming heads on the Right to fall in line and parrot it hard this week.

2 freetoken  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:55:22pm

Fox News misleading their viewers?

Shocked... I'm shocked.

3 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:55:42pm

Is it just me or does the edit seem blatant? It seems like there's a totally different infliction of his voice and a pause in between where he says "win that war" and "take these sons of bitches out." I am not shocked that Fox would do this. Anything to scare their viewers.

4 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:56:54pm
The right wing blogs and media have been going ballistic all day

Somehow they keep missing the fact that they're workers too.

5 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:57:05pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Is it just me or does the edit seem blatant?

That won't matter to Fox viewers. They're so conditioned to watch only Fox and to mistrust the "lamestream media" that they won't see the unedited clip, or they'll think that the unedited clips are the fake ones.

6 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:57:42pm

re: #5 Lidane

That won't matter to Fox viewers. They're so conditioned to watch only Fox and to mistrust the "lamestream media" that they won't see the unedited clip, or they'll think that the unedited clips are the fake ones.

I know. I am just amazed how blatant the edit is. Sleazy hacks posing as journalists.

7 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:59:01pm

re: #4 jaunte

Somehow they keep missing the fact that they're workers too.

They miss a lot of facts. It comes from being Fox News viewers and part of the brain-dead right.

8 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:59:17pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Is it just me or does the edit seem blatant? It seems like there's a totally different infliction of his voice and a pause in between where he says "win that war" and "take these sons of bitches out." I am not shocked that Fox would do this. Anything to scare their viewers.

nobody should be surprised let alone shocked....this is old stuff by now and nobody seems to particularly care, except a few blogs...and Hoffa of course....Fox does this because they can

9 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:00:39pm

re: #8 albusteve

nobody should be surprised let alone shocked...this is old stuff by now and nobody seems to particularly care, except a few blogs...and Hoffa of course...Fox does this because they can

Well the only thing that shocked me is that the edit just seems so obvious. I guess people like getting narratives of what they want to hear instead of reality but damnit if that edit wasn't obvious to me.

10 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:00:46pm

re: #7 Lidane

Speaking of which:

Rick Perry: "I'm not paying any attention to politics right now."
[Link: www.texastribune.org...]

11 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:00:52pm

And to make it worse, it looks like Fox News produced more than one edited video.

12 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:01:11pm

re: #7 Lidane
That is one reason why I do not watch it. You learn more when you watch America's Test Kitchen. /

13 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:01:52pm

re: #10 jaunte

He's so full of shit. Not paying attention to politics? Pfft.

14 nines09  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:02:28pm

Watching Fox News is like having a subscription to a newspaper that has whole sections missing and paragraphs blacked out. All for your own good. Heaven forbid you actually think and look elsewhere for news and opinion.

15 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:02:42pm

re: #9 HappyWarrior

Well the only thing that shocked me is that the edit just seems so obvious. I guess people like getting narratives of what they want to hear instead of reality but damnit if that edit wasn't obvious to me.

might as well get used to it...there does not seem to be any organized dispute

16 William of Orange  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:03:34pm

I could point fox to this ethics wiki ...but I fear they are going to edit that in no time...

17 freetoken  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:05:05pm

re: #14 nines09

Watching Fox News is like having a subscription to a newspaper that has whole sections missing and paragraphs blacked out.

Actually, it's more like reading the UK Daily Mail, which not coincidently Mr. Murdoch also owns.

18 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:05:18pm

re: #4 jaunte

Somehow they keep missing the fact that they're workers too.

Please. "Workers" join unions. They're Real Americans and unions have never done anything for them. It's why they can sit back today and enjoy Labor Day, don'tcha know.

19 freetoken  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:05:38pm

re: #17 freetoken

PIMF "Sun", not DailyMail.

20 freetoken  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:07:23pm

Unfortunately Fox News doesn't have the equivalent to a Page 3...

I wonder if the faithful Bible-believing Fox News viewers ever realize that their favorite TV channel is owned by one of Britain's largest soft-porn outlets?

21 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:07:37pm

I don't give a shit about Fox or Hoffa...I care about the truth being under siege....I'm so tired and jaded from it all I can't help but repeat myself....
I hate the feds and I hate the MSM....like a couple of friction, drama fed whores that can't stop each other, but feed off the mutual abuse

22 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:08:05pm

re: #5 Lidane

That won't matter to Fox viewers. They're so conditioned to watch only Fox and to mistrust the "lamestream media" that they won't see the unedited clip, or they'll think that the unedited clips are the fake ones.

It's not just about keeping the true believers. They lie and edit because they know there's also casual viewers who are going to accept the narrative and don't have the time or interest to consult other sources.

People I know will believe this story because it's the first version they heard--old fashioned primacy effect--and be skeptical of other versions because they seem like revisions.

23 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:08:38pm

re: #10 jaunte

Speaking of which:

To be fair, he should be here. I dont want to start treating republicans the way they treat Obama. These wildfires are serious business.

24 freetoken  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:08:42pm

I'd rather that Hoffa not use the language that he did, but it's pretty clear he was talking about the power of the vote.

25 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:09:34pm

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

26 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:10:23pm

re: #24 freetoken

The Republicans shouldn't be surprised either. They incited a Culture War for the better part of 30 years. Did they think that we eventually would not use their rhetoric?

I'm hoping the Democrats become more aggressive.

27 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:13:00pm

re: #24 freetoken

I'd rather that Hoffa not use the language that he did, but it's pretty clear he was talking about the power of the vote.

I agree. The populist metaphors about being an "army" and waging "war" were clearly intended as metaphors for mobilizing and voting. Simplistic language aimed at making a dim witted audience feel powerful. Not my cup of tea but Fox removing the context is inexcusable.

28 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:13:32pm

re: #18 Lidane

Please. "Workers" join unions. They're Real Americans and unions have never done anything for them. It's why they can sit back today and enjoy Labor Day, don'tcha know.

I was amused by all the hyper-defensive "SUPPORT WORKERS NOT UNIONS!!!1!11ty" rhetoric being spewed by right wing blogs and newspapers today. It's like they know this holiday celebrates something diametrically opposed to their ideology.

29 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:13:44pm

re: #26 ProLifeLiberal

The Republicans shouldn't be surprised either. They incited a Culture War for the better part of 30 years. Did they think that we eventually would not use their rhetoric?

I'm hoping the Democrats become more aggressive.

toward whom?....about what?

30 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:13:46pm

re: #23 blueraven

To be fair, he should be here. I dont want to start treating republicans the way they treat Obama. These wildfires are serious business.

They're serious enough to pay for, yes. Perry disagreed, if it meant raising any taxes.

The Texas Forest Service faces almost $34 million in budget cuts over the next two years, roughly a third of the agency's total budget. The cuts are in both the House and Senate versions of the proposed state budget.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

31 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:14:11pm

re: #26 ProLifeLiberal

The Republicans shouldn't be surprised either. They incited a Culture War for the better part of 30 years. Did they think that we eventually would not use their rhetoric?

I'm hoping the Democrats become more aggressive.

War on Christmas, anyone?

32 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:14:19pm

This stunt might well have succeeded...in 1971.

My comment at the sidebar post:

It will take a little time to sort out what happened.

sigh Cutting that sentence is, indeed, the kind of thing that the Stupid Party would consider clever: a typical...emission...from Karl Rove's Giant Brain. Otoh, it's not inconceivable to me that there's a Democrat ploy here designed to make the Right overreact.

If it's the latter, this conservative has just one thing to say to his opponents.

Well played.

Par for the course, alas.

33 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:15:18pm

re: #28 Atlas Fails

I was amused by all the hyper-defensive "SUPPORT WORKERS NOT UNIONS!!!1!11ty" rhetoric being spewed by right wing blogs and newspapers today. It's like they know this holiday celebrates something diametrically opposed to their ideology.

I still think one of my favorite bumper stickers is "The Unions: the folks that brought you the weekend." Unions certainly aren't perfect at all by any stretch but it annoys me when people act like unions have never done any good. They arguably played a key role in the construction of hte modern American middle class which is something I guess that bothers some.

34 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:15:32pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout
Fox removing the context is inexcusable. I agree.

35 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:16:20pm

so now what?....can Fox be stopped or do the own the field?

36 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:17:20pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

How does that change the contention that it's dishonest to edit the video in a way that cuts the component that makes it an extended metaphor? And it's not a matter of snipping the tail off a clip...they trimmed a sentence out of the middle of a speech, then based their reporting and analysis on the fake clip.

Beyond that, unless it can be demonstrated the Obama was aware of Hoffa's speech content beforehand, you really don't have a case for hypocrisy.

37 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:17:45pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

Hypocrisy? You are kidding, right?

The republicans have called this President every name in the book. They have done everything to undermine his presidency at every turn.
How about the "refresh the tree of liberty with blood" and all that. Guns at Presidential events...

Give me a break. Hoffa's words are his own.

38 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:20:31pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

I assumed the "civility" Obama talked about was aimed at liberals who tried to blame Palin for the Giffords shooting.

39 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:20:42pm

re: #20 freetoken

Unfortunately Fox News doesn't have the equivalent to a Page 3...

I wonder if the faithful Bible-believing Fox News viewers ever realize that their favorite TV channel is owned by one of Britain's largest soft-porn outlets?

I really don't think it matters to them. As long as they have a media patron who tells them *exactly* what they want to hear, they'll defend Fox and Murdoch.

40 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:22:33pm

re: #35 albusteve

so now what?...can Fox be stopped or do the own the field?

Fox and the rightwing blogs crossed the threshold of accountability long ago. Dan Rather got fired for dishonest journalism only because CBS wanted to maintain credibility for accuracy. After years of Breitbart videos, Glenn Beck and Death Panels it's clear that no amount of fact checking is going to accomplish anything with today's wingnuts. They have transcended reality and they don't care.

41 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:24:10pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Fox and the rightwing blogs crossed the threshold of accountability long ago. Dan Rather got fired for dishonest journalism only because CBS wanted to maintain credibility for accuracy. After years of Breitbart videos, Glenn Beck and Death Panels it's clear that no amount of fact checking is going to accomplish anything with today's wingnuts. They have transcended reality and they don't care.

mmm...devolving

42 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:24:20pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout
They do care about their ratings. That is it.

43 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:24:32pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

I don't see how Obama is hypocritical for appearing on a stage where war rhetoric preceded him. The man is prosecuting two or three wars, killed a few Somali pirates, killed Osama Bin Laden.... Just because he won the Nobel Peace Prize doesn't mean he's not mongering war with the best of 'em. The "righties" might be jealous.

44 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:25:15pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms.

Harry Truman: 'The people can never understand why the President does not use his powers to make them behave. Well all the president is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing, and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway."

45 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:25:18pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Fox and the rightwing blogs crossed the threshold of accountability long ago. Dan Rather got fired for dishonest journalism only because CBS wanted to maintain credibility for accuracy. After years of Breitbart videos, Glenn Beck and Death Panels it's clear that no amount of fact checking is going to accomplish anything with today's wingnuts. They have transcended reality and they don't care.

so...give up without a fight
fine with me

46 JEA62  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:27:20pm

Perhaps we should take a moment, use a little imagination, and imagine Limbaugh, Hannity, Bryan Fischer or Bachmann saying "let's take these son of a bitches out."

47 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:28:28pm

I'll also add that a real world factual discussion on the right is almost impossible. These edited videos are small taters compared with the reality of reducing the deficit, stimulating the economy, creating jobs, etc. They've gone so far into an alternate reality that I have no idea how they're going to make it back.

48 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:29:48pm

re: #46 JEA62

I think they have said that and worse.

Not to mention their Meth-Addled followers are more likely to actually carry out such actions.

49 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:31:13pm

re: #46 JEA62

Perhaps we should take a moment, use a little imagination, and imagine Limbaugh, Hannity, Bryan Fischer or Bachmann saying "let's take these son of a bitches out."

It's not the classiest phrase in the English language for sure, but if it's so heinous on it's own, why the need to deceptively edit it out of context? I'm comfortable focusing on the blatant dishonesty instead of the uncouth jackass.

50 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:31:51pm

re: #46 JEA62

Perhaps we should take a moment, use a little imagination, and imagine Limbaugh, Hannity, Bryan Fischer or Bachmann saying "let's take these son of a bitches out."

why?...what's that accomplish?...
we need ideas, creativity...some sort of blowback...Fox is not God, it's a fucking tv show...I would think people might be inspired to fight back, but apparently not....hardly enough voters read LGF to take advantage of the facts...
bitching and make believe scenarios are fun to post, but it gets you nowhere

51 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:32:14pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

Which video terms, words and imagery are you commenting on? The edited ones or the imagery of people responding to the real ones?

You are a troll.

52 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:32:20pm

re: #46 JEA62

Catherine Crabill, the Republican Party Nominee in the 99th House District of Virginia speaks on what she views the 2nd Amendment as being there for.
Ballot Box to Bullet Box?

Youtube Video

Elected GOP representative speaking at a Tea Party rally. Not taken out of context. No editing.
53 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:32:34pm

While the wingnuts are stuck on being "upset" about Hoffa's comments it's important to note that the president spoke at today's event in Detroit. Funny how with all of this noise people will forget this.

The White House

Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
September 05, 2011
Remarks by the President at Detroit Labor Day Event
GM Plant Parking Lot

Detroit, Michigan

1:30 P.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Detroit! (Applause.) Thank you, Michigan! (Applause.) Oh, this is a --

AUDIENCE: Four more years!

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. (Applause.) Thank you, everybody. It is --

AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Thank you, everybody. I can tell Ghana got you fired up. (Applause.) Thank you, Ghana, for that introduction. Thank you all for having me. It is good to be back in Detroit. (Applause.) I'm glad I was able to bring a friend -- a proud daughter of the Teamsters, your Secretary of Labor, Hilda Solis, in the house. (Applause.)

We’re thrilled to be joined by so many other friends. I want to acknowledge, first of all, two of the finest senators in the country -- Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow are in the house. (Applause.) Outstanding members of the congressional delegation -- John Bingham, John Conyers, Sandy Levin, Gary Peters, and Hansen Clarke. (Applause.)

The president of the Metropolitan Detroit Central Labor Council, our host, Saundra Williams. (Applause.) AFL-CIO president, Rich Trumka. (Applause.) President of the Michigan AFL-CIO, Mark Gaffney. (Applause.) And some proud sons and daughters of Michigan representing working people here and across the country -- SEIU President Mary Kay Henry, Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa, UAW President Bob King, Utility Workers President Mike Langford. (Applause.) We are proud of them and we're proud of your congressional delegation who are working every single day with your state and local elected officials to create jobs and economic growth and prosperity here in Michigan and all across the country.

Continues.

54 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:32:55pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

I'll also add that a real world factual discussion on the right is almost impossible. These edited videos are small taters compared with the reality of reducing the deficit, stimulating the economy, creating jobs, etc. They've gone so far into an alternate reality that I have no idea how they're going to make it back.

somebody has to pull them back...or get ready for a worsening X 2

55 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:33:04pm

This is pathetic. I read shit many times worse than this every day on RW blogs.

56 zora  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:33:42pm

re: #46 JEA62

easy to imagine. also can imagine them asking if the president is really a muslim, a terrorist sympathizer, a halfrican american, a dictator, the antichrist, the magic negro, oreo, liar, fraud, gangster. you get my point.

57 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:33:47pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

Your side continued the poisonous rhetoric. Now my side is taking it up.

How do you like it now? Go call the Wambulance.

58 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:34:14pm

re: #54 albusteve

No, full speed ahead.

59 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:35:05pm

re: #58 ProLifeLiberal

No, full speed ahead.

no what?

60 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:35:53pm

re: #46 JEA62

Perhaps we should take a moment, use a little imagination, and imagine Limbaugh, Hannity, Bryan Fischer or Bachmann saying "let's take these son of a bitches out."

AFAIK, Hoffa doesn't have a TV or radio show with millions of daily viewers, nor is he running for POTUS. If you can name someone on the right who's more on Hoffa's level saying the same thing, I'll be glad to try and imagine it.

61 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:37:07pm

re: #59 albusteve

To slowing down the rhetoric.

The Republicans made their bed, now they sleep in it.

62 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:37:19pm

re: #54 albusteve

somebody has to pull them back...or get ready for a worsening X 2

You're an optimist.

63 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:37:50pm

re: #60 CuriousLurker

Hey, good to see ya! :)

Your Profile Pic has changed.

64 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:39:01pm

re: #63 ProLifeLiberal

Hey, good to see ya! :)

Your Profile Pic has changed.

Good to see you too. Heh, yep. it has changed.

65 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:39:49pm

I have a hard time feeling bad for them too. Hoffa's rhetoric was over the top but how many times have we heard actual Republican candidates talk about solutions involving guns? What KT linked to is a good example of that. What Hoffa did to is show despite my usually pro union beliefs why I am not big on populism.

66 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:40:48pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

Right.

So, any comment on the fact that Fox News is deliberately lying to their viewers?

67 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:41:10pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

I have a hard time feeling bad for them too. Hoffa's rhetoric was over the top but how many times have we heard actual Republican candidates talk about solutions involving guns? What KT linked to is a good example of that. What Hoffa did to is show despite my usually pro union beliefs why I am not big on populism.

You are talking about the Teamsters. Hoffa didn't go to Hahvahd.

68 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:41:25pm

re: #61 ProLifeLiberal

To slowing down the rhetoric.

The Republicans made their bed, now they sleep in it.

you don't seem to get it...we are all sleeping in their bed, fine with me...I don't have a job and don't want one...Fox has almost no effect on me...the GOP can't touch me with their policies...I do what I want, but others have a lot to lose and already are...if you want to sit on your ass and complain, it makes me no difference

69 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:41:36pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

I'll also add that a real world factual discussion on the right is almost impossible. These edited videos are small taters compared with the reality of reducing the deficit, stimulating the economy, creating jobs, etc. They've gone so far into an alternate reality that I have no idea how they're going to make it back.

It really is an alternate reality, one in which the past was a golden age when people left their doors unlocked and neighbor helped neighbor. One small example: When I was a young man, in the early 70s, there were an average of 1000 deaths a year in the Texas oil industry, almost 3 per day. In recent years, the number has usually been in single digits. The same is true for coal mining. The numbers there are still rather higher, but they do not approach the 5000 per year that was common in the early twentieth century. The difference has been federal safety regulation and an aggressive tort system, both routinely decried and demonized by present-day conservatives.

70 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:43:05pm

re: #67 Decatur Deb

You are talking about the Teamsters. Hoffa didn't go to Hahvahd.

I know, I am just not a big fan of populism. I have Palin to thank for me seeing that. I feel Hoffa's frustration though, I too am sick of the working man and woman being shafted by Republican policies and union membership being equated with something sinister.

71 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:44:16pm

re: #45 albusteve

so...give up without a fight
fine with me

Who is giving up? There are several websites devoted to outing Fox lies everyday. Charles just posted this and has posted other Fox lies and deceptions.
Rupert Murdoch is under heavy scrutiny and investigation for his News Corp practices. Their day will come.

72 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:45:36pm

And before we hear the excuse that this is just "the same thing every news channel does" -- no, it's not. Not by a long shot. This was a deliberate, calculated smear, intended to get exactly the response it got from the far right base.

It makes me sick that the media has gotten so debased that this isn't cause for investigations and people being fired.

73 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:46:10pm

re: #62 Decatur Deb

You're an optimist.

I fight and don't much care how it turns out....there is a solution to the MSM bent on bending policy and candidates to their will....if the narrative that the lawyers and the media and K Street rule our lives and we can do nothing then I say fuck it all...nobody owns me or my thoughts...let's all have a beer and chill...what's the use eh?

74 bratwurst  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:47:11pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

I have a hard time feeling bad for them too. Hoffa's rhetoric was over the top but how many times have we heard actual Republican candidates talk about solutions involving guns?

You mean this...

and this?

75 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:47:46pm

re: #71 blueraven

Who is giving up? There are several websites devoted to outing Fox lies everyday. Charles just posted this and has posted other Fox lies and deceptions.
Rupert Murdoch is under heavy scrutiny and investigation for his News Corp practices. Their day will come.

I agree with the sentiment, but Fox has already accomplished the goal of this drive-by piece- they've worked the wingnut base into a frenzy that will see any attempt at clarifying their dishonest editing as "left wing spin", and fed into the already massive teabagger persecution complex.

76 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:47:48pm

re: #71 blueraven
I just noticed that there are going to be a couple of "retirements" at News Corp. It is in tomorrows Wall Street Journal.

77 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:48:11pm

re: #73 albusteve

I fight and don't much care how it turns out...there is a solution to the MSM bent on bending policy and candidates to their will...if the narrative that the lawyers and the media and K Street rule our lives and we can do nothing then I say fuck it all...nobody owns me or my thoughts...let's all have a beer and chill...what's the use eh?

If you want to have a beer and chill, go right ahead. No one's stopping you. Other people seem to want to have a discussion.

78 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:48:34pm

re: #74 bratwurst

You mean this...

and this?

Shit, I had forgotten Coburn's recent one.

79 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:49:11pm

It's pretty clear that at this point, they're completely convinced that they can do whatever they want, with total impunity.

Other mainstream media are cowered into not taking this on. This is so blatant that it is obvious that they are unconcerned about any repercussions. And it's clear that they take it for granted that their target audience is simply not interested in accountability.

80 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:49:34pm

re: #73 albusteve

I fight and don't much care how it turns out...there is a solution to the MSM bent on bending policy and candidates to their will...if the narrative that the lawyers and the media and K Street rule our lives and we can do nothing then I say fuck it all...nobody owns me or my thoughts...let's all have a beer and chill...what's the use eh?

We can do something about it, but not as individuals--just sign up for the Thousand Year War. "Don't mope--organize."

81 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:51:49pm

re: #77 Charles

If you want to have a beer and chill, go right ahead. No one's stopping you. Other people seem to want to have a discussion.

and I want to win...maybe the answer is a new sort of news channel....maybe a massive lawsuit...there has to be some sort of high profile pushback against Fox...I refuse to believe nothing can stop them

82 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:52:12pm

re: #74 bratwurst

You mean this...

and this?

The right's gun fetish is flat-out weird. They rail against welfare, saying it leads to broken homes and crime (with no statistical support and mountains of anecdotal bullshit, of course), but decry any attempt at sane gun regulations as unconstitutional. A cynic might say that this is because they're in the NRA's pocket.

83 researchok  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:52:15pm

re: #66 Charles

Right.

So, any comment on the fact that Fox News is deliberately lying to their viewers?

It's not about the spin- TP'ers say they want to make Obama a one term president and the left goes to town. That said, they never redacted the context.

What FOX did was a deliberate misrepresentation and that is the big sin.

That they have a particular editorial agenda is irrelevant. They can take any political position they choose, they can spin events till the cows come home.

By deliberately taking Hoffa's words out of context (and Hoffa is a pretty reprehensible guy to begin with), FOX has once more plumbed new journalistic depths.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:52:40pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

You mean when he said that, and every right-wing pundit in the universe screamed that he was evil for saying that? Maybe he figured they had a point, so he told Hoffa to mouth off. Who knows?

//

85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:53:00pm

re: #75 Atlas Fails

I agree with the sentiment, but Fox has already accomplished the goal of this drive-by piece- they've worked the wingnut base into a frenzy that will see any attempt at clarifying their dishonest editing as "left wing spin", and fed into the already massive teabagger persecution complex.

So aggro. They will make ANY excuse to feel like martyrs and victims, even with the obsession with murder machines, shows of brutality, and other punitive, authoritarian behavior.

I'm glad Jimmy Hoffa hurt their sensitive feelings.

86 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:54:06pm

re: #64 CuriousLurker

Good to see you too. Heh, yep. it has changed.

lol

87 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:54:36pm

re: #72 Charles

It makes me sick that the media has gotten so debased that this isn't cause for investigations and people being fired.

It's exactly as Al Gore said:

The first time I remember hearing the question “is it real?” was when I went as a young boy to see a traveling show put on by “professional wrestlers” one summer evening...But the most unusual and in some ways most interesting character in these dramas was the referee: Whenever the bad guy committed a gross and obvious violation of the “rules” — such as they were — like using a metal folding chair to smack the good guy in the head, the referee always seemed to be preoccupied with one of the cornermen, or looking the other way. Yet whenever the good guy — after absorbing more abuse and unfairness than any reasonable person could tolerate — committed the slightest infraction, the referee was all over him.

The referee — in this analogy, the news media — seems confused about whether he is in the news business or the entertainment business. Is he responsible for ensuring a fair match? Or is he part of the show, selling tickets and building the audience?

This doesn't just apply to climate science - it applies to *any* policy inconsistent with the goals of Koch/Murdoch/Limbaugh ad nauseam. The news media/professional wrestling referee has no interest whatsoever in a fair fight - the actions of the powerful are portrayed as good, while the actions of the powerless are portrayed as bad.

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:54:57pm

re: #33 HappyWarrior

I still think one of my favorite bumper stickers is "The Unions: the folks that brought you the weekend." Unions certainly aren't perfect at all by any stretch but it annoys me when people act like unions have never done any good. They arguably played a key role in the construction of hte modern American middle class which is something I guess that bothers some.

Anyone who works for wages and plays like the labor movement was a scam is on a par with those fucking idiots who think that women would have made the same progress without those awful, shrill, feminists. It would have just HAPPENED!!

89 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:55:43pm

re: #75 Atlas Fails

I agree with the sentiment, but Fox has already accomplished the goal of this drive-by piece- they've worked the wingnut base into a frenzy that will see any attempt at clarifying their dishonest editing as "left wing spin", and fed into the already massive teabagger persecution complex.

Not just Fox alone. Every pol, wonk, and pundit that guests on Fox News is an active participant in creating that pocket of zero fact-checking and conscious manipulation of narratives. It's symbiosis.

90 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:56:06pm

The Ministry of Truth strikes again. We have always been at war with EastAsia

91 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:56:14pm

If you look at Hoffa's speech in total (without Fox's blatant edits), I hear nothing worse than what a lot of TPGOP folks have been saying for a couple of years now ("war", "taking America back"...sound familiar?), other than the fact that he called out the TPGOP as "sons of bitches", which is rather blunt, but that's his right to do so. It sounded a lot like the standard political rah-rah-sis-boom-bah that most political rallies are...nothing more, nothing less, and nothing to get your panties in a bunch, so long as you know what was really said in the proper context.

After you watch, listen, and process what Hoffa really said, you tell me I'm wrong...if you have the guts.

92 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:56:22pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

Anyone who works for wages and plays like the labor movement was a scam is on a par with those fucking idiots who think that women would have made the same progress without those awful, shrill, feminists. It would have just HAPPENED!!

Good analogy about the feminists. It's moronic nonsense, the whole bloody lot of it.

93 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:56:23pm

re: #81 albusteve

You are impatient, Grasshopper.

"There are few of us now, soon
There will be none. We were comrades
Together, we believed we
Would see with our own eyes the new
World where man was no longer
Wolf to man, but men and women
Were all brothers and lovers
Together. We will not see it.
We will not see it, none of us.
It is farther off than we thought.
In our young days we believed
That as we grew old and fell
Out of rank, new recruits, young
And with the wisdom of youth,
Would take our places and they
Surely would grow old in the
Golden Age. They have not come..."

Rexroth's whole poem:

[Link: www.bopsecrets.org...]

94 recusancy  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:56:43pm

re: #81 albusteve

and I want to win...maybe the answer is a new sort of news channel...maybe a massive lawsuit...there has to be some sort of high profile pushback against Fox...I refuse to believe nothing can stop them

[Link: colorofchange.org...]
[Link: civic.moveon.org...]

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:57:16pm

re: #46 JEA62

Perhaps we should take a moment, use a little imagination, and imagine Limbaugh, Hannity, Bryan Fischer or Bachmann saying "let's take these son of a bitches out."

Agreed, it would have a nasty ring.

It might, however, have a nastier ring because of their extensive history of saying far worse, and of excusing people who actually commit violence. Just a thought.

96 freetoken  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:57:18pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

They've gone so far into an alternate reality that I have no idea how they're going to make it back.

As evidenced by Bachmann talking to Schieffer yesterday. Try as much as Bob did, he couldn't seem to make Bachmann realize that her claims of (1) "guaranteed" gasoline below $2/gal, and (2) having totally blind faith in the "free market" are logical inconsistencies.

She just couldn't grasp that a "free market" works by supply and demand, and that the price ends up wherever supply and demand are balanced.

To her "free market" is just a magickal phrase, a religious conjuring like so much of her mumbo-jumbo.

97 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:57:48pm

re: #81 albusteve

Considering what happened, Hoffa and the Teamsters might want to sue. I'd have to think there are grounds for it.

And don't take any deals. Humiliate FOX.

98 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:58:38pm

I wonder if in the long run the 1st will end up with an asterix...you just cannot make stuff up and broadcast it, you cannot edit to deceive....we'll need a shitload of more lawyers....there must be a direction to bring pressure against the media to clean up their act

99 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:59:46pm

re: #85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So aggro. They will make ANY excuse to feel like martyrs and victims, even with the obsession with murder machines, shows of brutality, and other punitive, authoritarian behavior.

I'm glad Jimmy Hoffa hurt their sensitive feelings.

On point.

It's all about the victimization thang. Climate "skeptics" are victims. The Tea Party are victims. Creationists are victims. Good god, Christmas is a victim.

100 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 4:59:57pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

Anyone who works for wages and plays like the labor movement was a scam is on a par with those fucking idiots who think that women would have made the same progress without those awful, shrill, feminists. It would have just HAPPENED!!

Also, by opposing unions they show that they really don't understand anything about freedom. The freedom to assemble peacefully is fundamental. By trying to destroy unions they show that regard that as a privilege that only belongs to those of the correct class.

101 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:00:01pm

Evening Honcos.

102 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:00:03pm

re: #98 albusteve

I wonder if in the long run the 1st will end up with an asterix...you just cannot make stuff up and broadcast it, you cannot edit to deceive...we'll need a shitload of more lawyers...there must be a direction to bring pressure against the media to clean up their act

You use a bigger megaphone--Stewart, Colbert, Maddow.

103 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:00:08pm

re: #82 Atlas Fails

The right's gun fetish is flat-out weird. They rail against welfare, saying it leads to broken homes and crime (with no statistical support and mountains of anecdotal bullshit, of course), but decry any attempt at sane gun regulations as unconstitutional. A cynic rational person might say that this is because they're in the NRA's pocket.

FTFY. Hope you don't mind.

104 recusancy  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:00:10pm

[Link: www.outfoxed.org...]

105 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:00:30pm

Bachmann: Why is there a Department of Education? (video)

"Because the Constitution does not specifically enumerate nor does it give to the federal government the role and duty to superintend over education that historically has been held by the parents and by local communities and by state governments," she said, responding to a question by DeMint, a popular figure among the tea party movement.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:00:42pm

My cousin posts: “Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.” Abraham Lincoln, Noted Commie and Our First Republican President

107 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:00:49pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

They've gone so far into an alternate reality that I have no idea how they're going to make it back.

At this point, they clearly have no concern about making it back.

108 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:01:02pm

re: #91 talon_262

If you look at Hoffa's speech in total (without Fox's blatant edits), I hear nothing worse than what a lot of TPGOP folks have been saying for a couple of years now ("war", "taking America back"...sound familiar?). It sounded a lot like the standard political rah-rah-sis-boom-bah that most political rallies are...nothing more, nothing less, and nothing to get your panties in a bunch, so long as you know what was really said in the proper context.

After you watch, listen, and process what Hoffa really said, you tell me I'm wrong...if you have the guts.

Hoffa used the TP's same incendiary rhetoric minus the ugly racial undertones, and they're crying like little bitches about how offended and persecuted they feel.

I love it.

109 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:01:51pm

re: #107 Talking Point Detective

At this point, they clearly have no concern about making it back.

Somebody should have left a trail of breadcrumbs or something.

110 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:02:20pm

re: #108 Atlas Fails

The Tea Partiers are bullies. They like hurting others, but hate when those others fight back.

111 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:02:34pm

More of the "Golden Age:" The worst school massacre in American history, the Bath School Disaster (45 killed), occurred in 1927. The worst accident in an American school was the New London School explosion in 1937 (295 dead).
The latter led directly to legislation requiring the addition of foul-smelling organo-sulfur compounds substance to otherwise odorless natural gas, another example of "big government" in action.
The worst industrial accident, the Texas City Explosion of 1947, also led to a raft of new regulations to improve port safety. 571 people were killed there, 405 of whom were eventually identified, 63 others recovered but never identified, and 113 who remain missing to this day since no identifiable trace was ever found of them.

112 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:02:53pm

re: #91 talon_262

This was a reply to ConservativeMe, BTW...I screwed up the post.

113 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:05:13pm

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

More of the "Golden Age:" The worst school massacre in American history, the Bath School Disaster (45 killed), occurred in 1927. The worst accident in an American school was the New London School explosion in 1937 (295 dead).
The latter led directly to legislation requiring the addition of foul-smelling organo-sulfur compounds substance to otherwise odorless natural gas, another example of "big government" in action.
The worst industrial accident, the Texas City Explosion of 1947, also led to a raft of new regulations to improve port safety. 571 people were killed there, 405 of whom were eventually identified, 63 others recovered but never identified, and 113 who remain missing to this day since no identifiable trace was ever found of them.

You see the documentary they did earlier this year on the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire?

114 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:05:36pm

re: #112 talon_262
To err is to be human...

115 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:07:53pm

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

More of the "Golden Age:" The worst school massacre in American history, the Bath School Disaster (45 killed), occurred in 1927. The worst accident in an American school was the New London School explosion in 1937 (295 dead).
The latter led directly to legislation requiring the addition of foul-smelling organo-sulfur compounds substance to otherwise odorless natural gas, another example of "big government" in action.
The worst industrial accident, the Texas City Explosion of 1947, also led to a raft of new regulations to improve port safety. 571 people were killed there, 405 of whom were eventually identified, 63 others recovered but never identified, and 113 who remain missing to this day since no identifiable trace was ever found of them.

That's impossible. Everyone knows school shootings only happened after we removed God from schools and replaced Him with Darwin.

116 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:08:17pm

re: #98 albusteve

I wonder if in the long run the 1st will end up with an asterix...you just cannot make stuff up and broadcast it, you cannot edit to deceive...we'll need a shitload of more lawyers...there must be a direction to bring pressure against the media to clean up their act

I like this.

A colony of bats.
A murder of crows.
A herd of cows.
A shitload of lawyers.

117 SteveMcG  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:08:50pm

Sorry I'm late for the discussion, but I would have sworn CBS News ran virtually the same cut, without the sentence about voting.
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Sorry, I forgot the minute mark, probably about 11 minutes. They just show the part where he says let's kick those sons of bitches out and take the country back.

118 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:08:55pm

re: #113 The Ghost of a Flea

You see the documentary they did earlier this year on the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire?

I did, more background to the origin of the regulations teabaggers so despise. They obviously never worked in a sweatshop.

119 freetoken  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:09:27pm

Headline in today's science news comes from anthropology:

The PR:
Ancient humans were mixing it up

Nature writeup:
Human ancestors interbred with related species

The PNAS article isn't online yet (due to Labor Day.)

What Hammer et. al. did was look at contemporary human DNA from a few African populations (that didn't migrate out) and run statistical analyses on parts of chromosomes.

The result: looks like some of those African populations interbred with a much older Homo species.

This is different than the Neanderthal mixture that happened in Eurasia, or the Denisovan admixture that shows up in some SE Asia populations.

Seems like human males go sticking their penes into just about anything...

120 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:09:53pm

Truly pathetic watching all of this disingenuous outrage coming from the Tea Party and the right wing over Mr. Hoffa's comment. This after nearly 3 years of non-stop violently tinged rhetoric with talk of guns and bullets. After reading the countless signs about "watering the tree of liberty" or "we are unarmed this time." Even to the point of seeing armed civilians with hand guns, rifles and a variety of automatic weapons showing up at right wing political rallies. After all of this all they have is this Hoffa comment and using it as some kind of example of a) the left and b) things to come? I've seen it already in the comments and this "take them out line" has become a conspiracy theory for some wingnuts.

121 recusancy  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:10:20pm

re: #113 The Ghost of a Flea

You see the documentary they did earlier this year on the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire?

You talking about the HBO one or this one?

122 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:10:56pm

re: #119 freetoken

[Link: freethoughtblogs.com...]

123 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:13:06pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

The Tea Party was talking about using guns and succession from the Union, and Hoffa was talking about voting.

The right I've heard were reacting, not to the language, but a perceived threat. That threat is a FOX illusion. Fox intended for people to view the words of Hoffa as a threat, not just as poorly chosen imagery.

124 YukonCornelius  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:14:39pm

re: #97 ProLifeLiberal

This got me thinking about Shirley Sherrod's current defamation lawsuit against Breitbart. I'm thinking that if Sherrod is successful in her suit (and I don't see any reason why she wouldn't be, though I am not a lawyer) this could open the door for more suits of this nature against their ilk.

re: #120 Gus 802

That's pretty much what I was going to say as well.

125 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:15:02pm

re: #118 Shiplord Kirel

I did, more background to the origin of the regulations teabaggers so despise. They obviously never worked in a sweatshop.

Yeah...whenever people talk about rolling back safety and health regulations I think about the Triangle Fire.I guess they're never imagining themselves as the ones in the dangerous building, just as the bosses.

126 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:16:06pm

Memorandum is showing 7 blogs besides LGF that are directly discussing the Fox edit. That might be enough to give the story legs. Many more are commenting on the original RCP posting.

[Link: memeorandum.com...]

127 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:17:33pm

re: #26 ProLifeLiberal

The Republicans shouldn't be surprised either. They incited a Culture War for the better part of 30 years. Did they think that we eventually would not use their rhetoric?

I'm hoping the Democrats become more aggressive.

I usually side with you, but your bitterness is starting to worry me.

That bitterness will only eat away at you until you're functionally catatonic.

128 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:18:13pm

re: #127 b_sharp

Just had a Muslim Friend say the exact same thing.

129 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:19:00pm

Tea Party Express doubles down.

The Tea Party Express has called on President Obama to “condemn this inappropriate and uncivil rhetoric,” saying it “has no place in the public forum.”

“Jimmy Hoffa’s remarks are inexcusable and amount to a call for violence on peaceful tea party members, which include many Teamster members,” Tea Party Express chair Amy Kremer said in a written statement.[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

130 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:19:06pm

re: #121 recusancy

You talking about the HBO one or this one?

The American Experience one. Don't have HBO.

131 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:19:12pm

re: #36 The Ghost of a Flea

It doesn't. But I'm a pretty anti-union guy, and when I saw the edited clip I didn't think for a minute Hoffa was calling for massive violence. I recognized it as rhetoric aimed at his audience. So, for at least one viewer of the clip, the dishonest edit didn't matter, as I picked up what was going on regardless. I wonder how many others did too?

132 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:19:19pm

re: #125 The Ghost of a Flea

Yeah...whenever people talk about rolling back safety and health regulations I think about the Triangle Fire. I guess they're never imagining themselves as the ones in the dangerous building

Even if they were, they probably figure they could just pull themselves out by their own bootstraps. 9_9

133 zora  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:20:25pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb


i commented at real clear politics about the editing of the video. my comment is gone now.

134 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:20:36pm

re: #38 Atlas Fails

Oh, I recall the speech, and it was heavy on needing to take the words and imagery of war out of politics.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:21:05pm

re: #125 The Ghost of a Flea

Yeah...whenever people talk about rolling back safety and health regulations I think about the Triangle Fire.I guess they're never imagining themselves as the ones in the dangerous building, just as the bosses.

It usually comes with some pathetic excuse about how letting your workers die or be maimed would be bad for business, so really it would be OK.

It never seems to cross their feather-brains that there is absolutely no evidence, either historically, or in modern places where there is no regulation, that the market prevents people from letting their workers be killed or maimed.

136 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:22:00pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Hypocritical with regards to his call to stop using such rhetoric.

137 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:22:39pm

The Daily Caller continues to stoke the outrage:

After Teamsters union president Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. called for a “war” against Republicans and tea partiers on Monday, one tea party group is calling for the union leader to resign.

“Calls to violence can never be acceptable in this civil society,” the Rockford, Illinois tea party group said in a statement. “Hoffa’s remarks were made in an introduction to Obama speaking to Auto Workers and Unions in Detroit and this sort of angry, hateful, call to violence should be repudiated by the President with a call from the President to ask Hoffa to resign his very public position of influence.”
[Link: dailycaller.com...]

138 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:23:14pm

re: #66 Charles

Right.

So, any comment on the fact that Fox News is deliberately lying to their viewers?

Par for the course. This one is blatant enough even the dimmest should see the dishonesty.

139 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:23:14pm

re: #133 zora

i commented at real clear politics about the editing of the video. my comment is gone now.

RCP is buying the fraud. They updated only to say the President is proud of Hoffa's remarks.

UPDATE: Obama Says He Is "Proud" Of Hoffa After Union Leader's Remarks

140 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:23:30pm

we need a whistleblower....some Fox memo on tape editing...some executive to spill their guts and create a scandle...put Fox on the defensive

141 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:23:56pm

re: #129 jaunte

Tea Party Express doubles down.

Yeah, Hoffa has already said he'd say the same words again.

"I would because I believe it," he said. "They've declared war on us. We didn't declare war on them, they declared war on us. We're fighting back. The question is, who started the war?"

I don't think he's going to back down.

142 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:23:58pm

re: #124 YukonCornelius

This got me thinking about Shirley Sherrod's current defamation lawsuit against Breitbart. I'm thinking that if Sherrod is successful in her suit (and I don't see any reason why she wouldn't be, though I am not a lawyer) this could open the door for more suits of this nature against their ilk.

re: #120 Gus 802

That's pretty much what I was going to say as well.

It will also lead to unprecedented bitching about how the left is trying to "silence dissent" by a bunch of overnight civil libertarians.

143 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:24:35pm

re: #133 zora

i commented at real clear politics about the editing of the video. my comment is gone now.

Was just reading the comments there. It's like a regular wingnut blog over there. Has Real Clear Politics become the new outlier?

144 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:24:38pm

re: #138 b_sharp

Par for the course. This one is blatant enough even the dimmest should see the dishonesty.

where would they see it?...drones do what they are told

145 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:24:58pm

re: #139 Decatur Deb

RCP is buying perpetuating the fraud.

Fixed.

146 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:25:06pm

re: #57 ProLifeLiberal

Hypocrisy in service to the greater cause is acceptable, then?

147 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:25:06pm

re: #120 Gus 802

Truly pathetic watching all of this disingenuous outrage coming from the Tea Party and the right wing over Mr. Hoffa's comment. This after nearly 3 years of non-stop violently tinged rhetoric with talk of guns and bullets. After reading the countless signs about "watering the tree of liberty" or "we are unarmed this time." Even to the point of seeing armed civilians with hand guns, rifles and a variety of automatic weapons showing up at right wing political rallies. After all of this all they have is this Hoffa comment and using it as some kind of example of a) the left and b) things to come? I've seen it already in the comments and this "take them out line" has become a conspiracy theory for some wingnuts.

And let's not forget all the "Pray for Obama" t-shirts & bumper stickers referencing Psalms:

Let his days be few; and let another take his office. (Psalm 109:8

Which is immediately followed by the verse:

Let his children be fatherless And his wife a widow. (Psalm 109:9)

Imagine the reaction on the right if liberals were donning the same kind of stuff regarding a sitting Republican president, or even one of their current candidates.

148 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:26:33pm

re: #143 Gus 802

Was just reading the comments there. It's like a regular wingnut blog over there. Has Real Clear Politics become the new outlier?

RCP keeps Rassmussen in their aggregate of presidential approval polls.

149 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:27:27pm

re: #73 albusteve

I fight and don't much care how it turns out...there is a solution to the MSM bent on bending policy and candidates to their will...if the narrative that the lawyers and the media and K Street rule our lives and we can do nothing then I say fuck it all...nobody owns me or my thoughts...let's all have a beer and chill...what's the use eh?

There is a difference between being a realist and a defeatist. Giving up is tacit permission for the bullshit artists to keep spreading bullshit.

150 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:27:40pm

RealClearPolitics has now "updated" its story.,

No mention of the removed footage, though.

Quelle surprise!

151 zora  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:27:44pm

re: #143 Gus 802

it's been wingnutty for a while now.

152 recusancy  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:28:11pm

And then there's this.

153 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:28:27pm

re: #66 Charles

I replied to someone else, they shouldn't have edited the video as they did. It was stupid of them to do it, and opened them up to people like you calling them out on their BS.

But when I watched the edited clip, I took from it the exact same message as what was in the unedited clip. I never thought for a moment Hoffa was calling for massive violence, only firing up his audience at a political rally for the cause of... politics (i.e getting them to GOTV and other political activities). Albeit with rhetoric the President was condemning not so long ago.

154 albusteve  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:29:21pm

re: #149 b_sharp

There is a difference between being a realist and a defeatist. Giving up is tacit permission for the bullshit artists to keep spreading bullshit.

what I've been saying for months, years

155 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:30:42pm

re: #153 ConservativeMe

I replied to someone else, they shouldn't have edited the video as they did. It was stupid of them to do it, and opened them up to people like you calling them out on their BS.

But when I watched the edited clip, I took from it the exact same message as what was in the unedited clip. I never thought for a moment Hoffa was calling for massive violence, only firing up his audience at a political rally for the cause of... politics (i.e getting them to GOTV and other political activities). Albeit with rhetoric the President was condemning not so long ago.

Uh huh.

Youtube Video
156 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:31:46pm

re: #155 Charles

Snerk.

157 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:32:15pm

The Texas City explosion, involving the detonation of 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate aboard the French freighter Grandcamp, was the second largest accidental non-nuclear explosion. The largest was the Halifax explosion of 1917, which also occurred aboard a French ship, the Mont Blanc, and killed at least 2000 people.
The magnitude of these events is hard to imagine. In Texas City, the blast sheared the wings off a sightseeing plane at 1700 feet. It crashed, killing the occupants. A newspaper plane also crashed from blast damage but not fatally. One of Grandcamp's two ton anchors was blown 1.6 miles and is preserved today in a memorial park in Texas City.
Grandcamp anchor in Texas City memorial park.
All 27 members of the Texas City Volunteer Fire Department who responded to the first alarm were killed, along with three firemen from nearby Texas City Heights. They were on the dock beside the Grandcamp when it blew up and are among the 113 of whom no identifiable trace was ever found.
Another Texas City Disaster website, with many photos.
Texas City Volunteer Fire Department
This spooky photograph is the last known image of the Texas City firefighters, showing them on the dock beside the Grandcamp a few minutes before the explosion. Marion "Jack" Westmorland is holding the hose bottom right corner with Fire Chief Buamgartner in the center with hat on.

158 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:33:42pm

re: #125 The Ghost of a Flea

Yeah...whenever people talk about rolling back safety and health regulations I think about the Triangle Fire.I guess they're never imagining themselves as the ones in the dangerous building, just as the bosses.

One of the Limbaugh callers I heard today did that very thing, calling on President Obama to "cancel" safety and health regulations for the sake of economic growth. He also wanted to abolish all environmental regulations.

159 piratedan  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:33:45pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

it died when the Pima County GOP decided to go ahead and raffle off a glock as a fundraising ploy for the Congressional AZ 8 race.....you know, Gabby Giffords district.

160 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:34:05pm

re: #126 Decatur Deb

Memorandum is showing 7 blogs besides LGF that are directly discussing the Fox edit. That might be enough to give the story legs. Many more are commenting on the original RCP posting.

[Link: memeorandum.com...]

Hmm, those must be the other "people like you" CM was referring to.

161 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:34:15pm

They're only the party of Lincoln when froyhng in my face, trying to cram conservatism down my throat.

Otherwise, they'd get the hemp rope out for Lincoln just as soon as any of my male cousins in Jasper.

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

My cousin posts: “Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.” Abraham Lincoln, Noted Commie and Our First Republican President

162 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:34:24pm

re: #146 ConservativeMe

Hypocrisy in service to the greater cause is acceptable, then?

The RW blogs are not talking about hypocrisy. They are saying Hoffa has declared war and advocates violence against the T party. Which id false. So stop with your concerned rhetoric.

163 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:35:05pm

re: #123 b_sharp

You obviously read different right wing blogs than I do. I don't know what specifically you are referring to when you say the Tea Party was talking about guns and secession, and I'm sure there was more than a little, but I'm also sure when Obama gave his Tuscon speech he didn't say (paraphrased) let's cut out the overheated war rhetoric when we're talking politics, unless you are a union supporter, then go right ahead.

164 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:35:37pm

re: #153 ConservativeMe

I replied to someone else, they shouldn't have edited the video as they did. It was stupid of them to do it, and opened them up to people like you calling them out on their BS.

But when I watched the edited clip, I took from it the exact same message as what was in the unedited clip. I never thought for a moment Hoffa was calling for massive violence, only firing up his audience at a political rally for the cause of... politics (i.e getting them to GOTV and other political activities). Albeit with rhetoric the President was condemning not so long ago.

Good on ya that *you* got it.

Now, what about Tea Party Express?

Daily Caller?

Michelle Malkin just added this story to her "top 10 union thug moments of the year."

I haven't looked at any more right wing sites, but I'd be willing to bet that I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on.....

165 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:36:29pm

re: #25 ConservativeMe

I think the point of the video was to highlight the hypocrisy of President Obama being there with Hoffa speaking in those terms. All the righty blogs I've read about it are making a point of the words and imagery used, not suggesting that Hoffa was actually calling for some sort of workers violent uprising.

What happened to the New Tone President Obama said we needed to cultivate post Tuscon?

The new tone was choked to death in its cradle by the birthers and umpty bajilion fillibusters.

166 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:36:39pm

re: #131 ConservativeMe

It doesn't. But I'm a pretty anti-union guy, and when I saw the edited clip I didn't think for a minute Hoffa was calling for massive violence. I recognized it as rhetoric aimed at his audience. So, for at least one viewer of the clip, the dishonest edit didn't matter, as I picked up what was going on regardless. I wonder how many others did too?

That really is irrelevant, and from what I can see, an unintended reaction.

What do you believe was the reason Fox removed that context?

167 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:37:12pm

re: #163 ConservativeMe

Really, no right wingers said Hoffa called for civil war? You sure about that?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

168 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:37:30pm

re: #131 ConservativeMe

It doesn't. But I'm a pretty anti-union guy, and when I saw the edited clip I didn't think for a minute Hoffa was calling for massive violence. I recognized it as rhetoric aimed at his audience. So, for at least one viewer of the clip, the dishonest edit didn't matter, as I picked up what was going on regardless. I wonder how many others did too?

What do you have against Unions?

169 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:37:56pm

re: #155 Charles

Well, I may not be Earl the Pearl, but I don't get it. Are you saying I'm lying to you about what I took from the video?

What?

170 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:39:10pm

re: #136 ConservativeMe

Hypocritical with regards to his call to stop using such rhetoric.

Even if you are correct, I have to wonder why you are trying so hard to get us to take a bite from that red herring.

171 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:39:16pm

re: #169 ConservativeMe

Well, I may not be Earl the Pearl, but I don't get it. Are you saying I'm lying to you about what I took from the video?

What?

I'm saying that your efforts to spin this egregious Fox News scandal are not going unnoticed.

172 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:40:34pm

re: #141 makeitstop

Yeah, Hoffa has already said he'd say the same words again.

I don't think he's going to back down.

He has a point.

And the moral high ground.

173 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:41:00pm

re: #169 ConservativeMe

Well, I may not be Earl the Pearl, but I don't get it. Are you saying I'm lying to you about what I took from the video?

What?

He's saying you realize Fox got caught in a lie and are now desperately spinning to minimize that fact.

174 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:42:48pm

re: #165 jamesfirecat

So, while the New Tone is a good and desirable thing, your opponents don't cotton to it, so you don't have to either?

175 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:42:54pm

Jimmy Hoffa's been Breitbarted.

176 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:43:04pm

re: #173 Atlas Fails

He's saying you realize Fox got caught in a lie and are now desperately spinning to minimize that fact.

That, too.

177 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:43:15pm

re: #111 Shiplord Kirel

No new regulations unless cuts are made somewhere else!

178 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:43:21pm

Wall Street Journal maintains the note of panic, but quoted Hoffa more-or-less correctly:

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:43:39pm

I totally fell for it.

Checked the quote in five places before I talked about it. Every place I checked had the exact same quote. With the removed part removed.

Shit.

180 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:44:42pm

re: #167 Charles

I not sure about that because I never claimed it. I'm sure you're aware of the fact that there are very stupid people out there.

181 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:46:04pm

re: #180 ConservativeMe

I not sure about that because I never claimed it. I'm sure you're aware of the fact that there are very stupid people out there.

Out there, yes.

182 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:46:15pm

re: #171 Charles

"I replied to someone else, they shouldn't have edited the video as they did. It was stupid of them to do it, and opened them up to people like you calling them out on their BS."

You did notice I wrote that, yes?

183 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:46:54pm

re: #174 ConservativeMe

So, while the New Tone is a good and desirable thing, your opponents don't cotton to it, so you don't have to either?

Nice concern trolling. Teabaggers mocked Obama's call for a "new tone" from the moment it crossed his lips, but now you're shocked and appalled that a Democrat would dare call for an "army" of voters. And use profanity, no less! Maybe when your side renounces their Second Amendment solutions and calls to water the Tree of Liberty, you can talk.

184 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:47:20pm

re: #174 ConservativeMe

So, while the New Tone is a good and desirable thing, your opponents don't cotton to it, so you don't have to either?

There's no point trying to strike up a new tone when your opponents refuse to meet you halfway.

You can't compromise with a religious extremist and those seem to be the people who are currently running the GOP.

185 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:47:38pm

re: #181 Naso Tang

Out there, yes.

The posts are coming from inside the house!

186 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:47:54pm

re: #179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I totally fell for it.

Checked the quote in five places before I talked about it. Every place I checked had the exact same quote. With the removed part redmoved.

Shit.

I have to admit it looked pretty damning against Hoffa when I first saw the story earlier. But experience leads me to look for context i.e. Sherrod and others.

187 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:48:00pm

re: #146 ConservativeMe

Hypocrisy in service to the greater cause is acceptable, then?

Of all the moral errors that can be made, hypocrisy is the least important. The intentional misrepresentation of an idea is several orders of magnitude worse, so in all of your use of the balance fairy, why have you chosen that particular error?

188 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:48:19pm

I guess it doesn't stop amazing me that it doesn't occur to these people that there is more than one camera running when stuff like this gets reported.

People are on crazy (or stupid) pills.

189 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:48:40pm

re: #172 b_sharp

He has a point.

And the moral high ground.

There is nothing I would like to see more than an organization file suit against Fox and really put some sharks on them - and make sure that as much of the legal fight as possible take place in public, in front of cameras.

Can the AFL do it? Maybe we'll find out.

190 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:49:05pm

Jane Mayer in The New Yorker: some peaceful, civil political language from the Tea Party in 2010:

The Texas branch of Americans for Prosperity gave its Blogger of the Year Award to a young woman named Sibyl West. On June 14th, West, writing on her site, described Obama as the “cokehead in chief.” In an online thread, West speculated that the President was exhibiting symptoms of “demonic possession (aka schizophrenia, etc.).” The summit featured several paid speakers, including Janine Turner, the actress best known for her role on the television series “Northern Exposure.” She declared, “They don’t want our children to know about their rights. They don’t want our children to know about a God!”

During a catered lunch, Venable introduced Ted Cruz, a former solicitor general of Texas, who told the crowd that Obama was “the most radical President ever to occupy the Oval Office,” and had hidden from voters a secret agenda—“the government taking over our economy and our lives.” Countering Obama, Cruz proclaimed, was “the epic fight of our generation!” As the crowd rose to its feet and cheered, he quoted the defiant words of a Texan at the Alamo: “Victory, or death!”
[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

191 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:49:10pm

By the who is Michele Malkin to complain about this when she orchestratd the harassment of a family because she didn't like the boy's position on SCHIP. She has no room to talk about thugs when she acts like one herself.

192 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:49:40pm

re: #173 Atlas Fails

What makes you think I care about FOX so much I want to get into an online discussion trying to get people to see that FOX really isn't that bad?

They don't pay me or anything (yet).

I thought it was an interesting point that Hoffa seemed to be using "eliminationist" rhetoric on a stage shared by the President, a President who had specifically called for the end of such rhetoric.

I guess that just doesn't matter at all though, because, you know, FOX!!11!!Breitbart!!11!>.

193 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:50:32pm

re: #182 ConservativeMe

"I replied to someone else, they shouldn't have edited the video as they did. It was stupid of them to do it, and opened them up to people like you calling them out on their BS."

You did notice I wrote that, yes?

That's not what you said originally, where you ignored the fact that the OP is about the lies in editing. Not everyone here, including me, are particularly fond of populist rhetoric, but that is not what the thread is about.

You appear to be pedaling backwards.

194 Buck  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:50:37pm

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about doing it by voting

195 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:51:02pm

re: #187 b_sharp

Oh, so all those closeted gays in the GOP who vote for anti-gay legislation really isn't that big a deal. Good to know.

196 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:51:16pm

re: #185 jamesfirecat

The posts are coming from inside the house!

I'm being excruciatingly polite.

197 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:52:03pm

re: #195 ConservativeMe

Oh, so all those closeted gays in the GOP who vote for anti-gay legislation really isn't that big a deal. Good to know.

I am outraged by such people far more by the fact that they would cast votes which deny people certain civil rights than the fact that they would be limiting their own rights also.

198 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:52:21pm

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about voting

Really? Nothing about voting in election?

199 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:52:39pm

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about voting

OK, I'll bite. What does it mean when you wipe someone out in an election?

200 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:52:50pm

re: #188 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! My boy played his first game of horseshoes yesterday. He made two ringers.

201 Buck  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:53:39pm

re: #199 Decatur Deb

OK, I'll bite. What does it mean when you wipe someone out in an election?

Same thing as when you target someone in an election?

202 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:53:50pm

[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

203 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:54:16pm

re: #192 ConservativeMe

What makes you think I care about FOX so much I want to get into an online discussion trying to get people to see that FOX really isn't that bad?

They don't pay me or anything (yet).

I thought it was an interesting point that Hoffa seemed to be using "eliminationist" rhetoric on a stage shared by the President, a President who had specifically called for the end of such rhetoric.

I guess that just doesn't matter at all though, because, you know, FOX!!11!!Breitbart!!11!>.

Ah, so then you're just deeply, deeply concerned the upkeep of President Obama's moral integrity, is that it?

204 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:54:28pm

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about doing it by voting

The word's gone out, obviously.

205 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:54:32pm

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

206 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:55:55pm

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

207 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:55:59pm

re: #201 Buck

Same thing as when you target someone in an election?

OK, so Hoffa has been listening to Palin too much and something has rubbed off. Give us a break.

208 mr.fusion  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:56:09pm

re: #72 Charles

And before we hear the excuse that this is just "the same thing every news channel does" -- no, it's not. Not by a long shot. This was a deliberate, calculated smear, intended to get exactly the response it got from the far right base.

It makes me sick that the media has gotten so debased that this isn't cause for investigations and people being fired.

The lack of ellipses make it clear what their intent was. Everyone knows that when you leave text out from a quote you use (...) and that's only if the text being removed doesn't add anything to the quote.

They made it look as if the words quoted were the only words he said. They knew what they were doing. Probably coordinated with Drudge and Big Government on the release, just like the Sherrod video

209 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:56:25pm

Derp Team, ASSEMBLE!

Youtube Video
210 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:57:13pm

re: #203 CuriousLurker

No, I like to point out when my political opponents don't live up to their own principles/words.

I'm sure nothing that stupid ever goes on around here.

211 zora  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:57:41pm

re: #194 Buck

you do realize that elections are for voting, right.

212 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:57:54pm

re: #161 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They're only the party of Lincoln when froyhng

Frothing

213 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:57:56pm

re: #204 Charles

The word's gone out, obviously.


If there's an emergency
Sound the horn of urgency!

214 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:58:04pm

re: #210 ConservativeMe

**Snark**

215 Buck  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:58:38pm

re: #211 zora

you do realize that elections are for voting, right.

What I think is not the topic. It is what Union organizer Hoffa thinks....

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:59:04pm

re: #199 Decatur Deb

OK, I'll bite. What does it mean when you wipe someone out in an election?

Clearly he means wait for election day, and then he waves magic TEAMSTER UNION WAND and all the dumbasses disappear, vanish, unmade, into atoms

But it has to be election day! That's the only day!


Buck, shit-stupid as always

217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:59:05pm

re: #200 prairiefire

Some people say a horseshoe's gonna bring 'em lotsa luck
A horseshoe is a lucky charm of course
But, for every set of horseshoes human beings use for luck
Somewhere in this world's a barefoot horse.
-Allen Sherman

218 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:59:07pm

re: #215 Buck

What I think is not the topic.

This is true.

219 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:59:21pm

re: #192 ConservativeMe

What makes you think I care about FOX so much I want to get into an online discussion trying to get people to see that FOX really isn't that bad?

They don't pay me or anything (yet).

I thought it was an interesting point that Hoffa seemed to be using "eliminationist" rhetoric on a stage shared by the President, a President who had specifically called for the end of such rhetoric.

I guess that just doesn't matter at all though, because, you know, FOX!!11!!Breitbart!!11!>.

Seeing as you have been making excuses for Fox by saying that the message of the video isn't changed by the editing, it's easy to see how I came to believe that you wanted to get into an online debate about them.

It's good to know that your feelings were hurt by Hoffa calling for an army of voters and using a naughty word, but to say this undermines Obama's civility message when the far-right has called the President everything from a Kenyan Muslim to a Marxist and advocated the violent overthrow of the government if they don't get their way at the ballot box is blatantly disingenuous.

220 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:59:22pm

re: #132 publicityStunted

Even if they were, they probably figure they could just pull themselves out by their own bootstraps. 9_9

Man I fucking hate bootstraps. Three decades alive and I have yet to hear that ragged-ass meme used as anything other than a guilt trip. Even if someone needs to take an issue into their own hands and deal with it, the invocation of "bootstraps" is invariably a dismissal.

re: #131 ConservativeMe

It doesn't. But I'm a pretty anti-union guy, and when I saw the edited clip I didn't think for a minute Hoffa was calling for massive violence. I recognized it as rhetoric aimed at his audience. So, for at least one viewer of the clip, the dishonest edit didn't matter, as I picked up what was going on regardless. I wonder how many others did too?

I'm not understanding why it doesn't matter...even to you personally.

Seriously--not being nasty or anything--doesn't it bother you that a news program has perpetrated a deception?

I mean, chopping out context...and in particular, that middle sentence...spins the meaning of Hoffa's speech. Even if it's not taken a a call for direct violence, lifting out the part about voting changes the tone of the speech quite radically. With the sentence in, the extended martial metaphor is explicitly tied to voting...without it, the metaphor is not anchored in a specific (non-violent) act, and is thus open to broader interpretation.

That is not reporting of news...that is explicitly altering information to create a narrative, then carrying forward that narrative while presenting it as fact. And now that narrative has a life of its own, and it will propagate, and people will make decisions based upon it....

That scares the crap out of me as a societal trend, as I'm aware of the occasions in the past where such counterfeits have led to horrible things.

221 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:59:42pm

re: #215 Buck

What I think is not the topic. It is what Union organizer Hoffa thinks...

keep mashing those keys! Maybe by accident you'll say something smart!

222 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 5:59:58pm

re: #202 Gus 802

[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I'm sure if anyone told those guys they don't really mean it, they would agree. / / / / /

223 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:00:02pm

re: #210 ConservativeMe

No, I like to point out when my political opponents don't live up to their own principles/words.

I'm sure nothing that stupid ever goes on around here.

I believe you did that (the first time) in your comment #25, yet here we are at 200+ still talking about it. Stupid indeed.

224 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:00:09pm

re: #204 Charles

The word's gone out, obviously.

I just had that exact same thought.

225 zora  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:00:21pm

re: #215 Buck

so hoffa doesn't know elections are for voting? come on, what's your point.

226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:00:30pm

re: #209 goddamnedfrank

Thanks for busting my ass, Frank. You called me out on this first.

227 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:00:35pm

re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Some people say a horseshoe's gonna bring 'em lotsa luck
A horseshoe is a lucky charm of course
But, for every set of horseshoes human beings use for luck
Somewhere in this world's a barefoot horse.
-Allen Sherman

If it really was a lucky rabbits foot, wouldn't the rabbit not be hobbling around on the three he has left?

228 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:00:38pm

re: #197 jamesfirecat

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

229 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:00:47pm

re: #192 ConservativeMe

so winning an election and is "eliminationist"?

230 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:01:08pm

biab

231 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:01:12pm

re: #215 Buck

What I think is not the topic. It is what Union organizer Hoffa thinks...

I'm pretty sure Hoffa knows what elections are for too. Are you actually trying to argue that Hoffa is calling for violence? If so, this is low, even for you.

232 bratwurst  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:01:59pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

Wow, only here 24 hours and already grousing about the content. This is a new record!

233 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:02:06pm

Fox News gets caught in a blatant, evil lie, and suddenly we're supposed to talk about the other things James Hoffa might have said, based on posts at right wing blogs.

Right.

I don't think so.

234 mr.fusion  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:02:41pm

See, they're doing exactly what they did with the Sherrod video.

As soon as it became clear that they had been caught in a lie, it was no longer about Shirley's words.............it was about the crowd "laughing" during her story.

This isn't about Hoffa's words no matter how edited they were.....it's that he used the word "bitches" *gasp* and Obama still went on stage after he did.......and the President didn't even have the courage to wag his finger at his hosts! Oh the horror

I can hear the pearl clutching from here

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:02:53pm

re: #197 jamesfirecat

I am outraged by such people far more by the fact that they would cast votes which deny people certain civil rights than the fact that they would be limiting their own rights also.

but they're really not concerned about that, since they have no intention of taking advantage of those rights

236 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:02:59pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

It does add a new layer of depravity to the issue, but also even more importantly the chief way we find out that these Republicans are gay is because they've been having affairs and thus every time we find out one is gay it often means they'll be resigning very soon after which is why the discovery is important.

237 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:03:18pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

Self-hating and nakedly ambitious conservative queers!

it's what's for dinner!

238 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:03:47pm

re: #192 ConservativeMe

What makes you think I care about FOX so much I want to get into an online discussion trying to get people to see that FOX really isn't that bad?

They don't pay me or anything (yet).

I thought it was an interesting point that Hoffa seemed to be using "eliminationist" rhetoric on a stage shared by the President, a President who had specifically called for the end of such rhetoric.

I guess that just doesn't matter at all though, because, you know, FOX!!11!!Breitbart!!11!>.

OK, let's let the obvious lying of Fox go and focus on Obama's plea for civility and his acceptance of incivility on the part of Hoffa. What is your take away message from this egregious error on Obama's part? How should we now view what he does?

239 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:03:57pm

re: #204 Charles

The word's gone out, obviously.

I was wondering how long it would take. Not as long as I'd hoped.

240 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:04:29pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

Do you mean "funny haha" or "funny peculiar?"

241 Achilles Tang  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:04:58pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

Why funny? Bigotry and ignorance is more common than bigotry and hypocrisy. Obviously the latter deserves even more attention.

242 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:05:35pm

re: #233 Charles

It's really bizarre. This is a gigantic breach of journalistic ethics. It's not as bad as Rather, but, unlike Rather, I believe that there was actual knowledge of the fakery involved. I doubt they somehow just got their hands on a pre-edited tape. I think they did it themselves.

So it's knowingly distorted the news for political advantage, and not through opinion or ignorance or dumb blather, but a cynical decision to misinform.

And it's very obvious, and very dangerous.

243 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:05:43pm

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about doing it by voting

So, you have a problem with comprehension. We already knew that.

244 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:06:12pm

re: #234 mr.fusion

Any opportunity to quote a sane Christian...

"I have three things I'd like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a shit. What's worse is that you're more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night."
-Tony Campolo

245 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:06:21pm

re: #240 Charles

Do you mean "funny haha" or "funny peculiar?"

Youtube Video
246 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:06:25pm

re: #220 The Ghost of a Flea

I meant it didn't matter for me understanding the context of Hoffa remarks.

It does matter for simple honesty and integrity. It was stupid of them to do it, and as Charles showed at least one (probably many more) person thought Hoffa was calling for union violence against the Tea Party.

I have trouble thinking like a stupid person, so my initial thought that the edit didn't matter that much for context was probably off-base.

It just hurts my head to think how stupid a person has to be to believe a guy like Hoffa is stupid enough to call for what amounts to riots and gang-violence on national TV with the President in attendance. Something like that just simply wouldn't cross my mind.

247 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:06:35pm

re: #242 Obdicut

a cynical decision to misinform

That's the real Fox slogan.

248 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:07:01pm

re: #226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks for busting my ass, Frank. You called me out on this first.

No worries, I would never consider you part of the Derp Team though. There's a whole world of difference between honestly passing something on and trying to make excuses for it after it's been exposed as a fraud, which I don't think you've ever done.

249 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:07:14pm

re: #236 jamesfirecat

It does add a new layer of depravity to the issue, but also even more importantly the chief way we find out that these Republicans are gay is because they've been having affairs and thus every time we find out one is gay it often means they'll be resigning very soon after which is why the discovery is important.

Well there's the affairs part and the fact that many of those guys exposed have made their careers gay bashing and trashing liberals for having bad values but hey we're the bad ones I guess not these jerks who get to office by saying their opponents want to destroy the American family and have no values. If the Republican party and conservative movement wasn't so damned self righteous, I could care less about their affairs.

250 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:08:02pm

re: #248 goddamnedfrank

Oh... I have my derpage.

251 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:08:40pm

re: #232 bratwurst

This is the problem with being a minority voice. I gets too much attention. I was responding to someone who says hypocrisy doesn't bother them that much.

It bothers a lot of people, something I demonstrated with that post. No grousing going on, just illumination.

252 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:08:51pm

re: #250 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh... I have my derpage.

You're a good dude in my book. As I recall, you were one of the first people to greet me my first day here.

253 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:09:13pm

re: #195 ConservativeMe

Oh, so all those closeted gays in the GOP who vote for anti-gay legislation really isn't that big a deal. Good to know.

No, not at all. They aren't simply being hypocritical, they are pushing for laws that have real world effects, and pushing an ideology that has resulted in the beatings and deaths of gays. That they are selfish cowards is secondary to their actions.

254 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:09:19pm

re: #247 jaunte

That's the real Fox slogan.

No Jon Stewart nailed it with "We Alter Reality. You Are Sold a Preconceived Narrative"

[Link: www.owlandbear.com...]

255 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:09:33pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

My cousin posts: “Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.” Abraham Lincoln, Noted Commie and Our First Republican President

SFZ, I wasn't aware of that quote. Thanks for telling me about it.

It's part of a longer passage in which Lincoln acknowledges that capital has rights. He goes on to discuss what today we might call an entrepreneurial family business; he praises the social mobility which allows some laborers to attain the economic independence of such a business.

This is the just, and generous, and prosperous system, which opens the way to all--gives hope to all, and consequent energy, and progress, and improvement of condition to all...

Not surprising, given that the Homestead Act was passed during his administration.

(The link I gave contains more of Lincoln's discussion than your quote, but not the full document.)

256 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:09:42pm

re: #251 ConservativeMe

This is the problem with being a minority voice. I gets too much attention. I was responding to someone who says hypocrisy doesn't bother them that much.

It bothers a lot of people, something I demonstrated with that post. No grousing going on, just illumination.

Why am I getting the feeling you might have had an account at LGF before this one?

257 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:10:40pm

re: #238 b_sharp

It means Obama is unfit for office, and all his decisions are probably based on his being a Kenyan Muslim!

/

258 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:10:43pm

re: #250 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh... I have my derpage.

If you're gonna derp at least have a muffin to go with it

259 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:11:24pm

re: #242 Obdicut

It's really bizarre. This is a gigantic breach of journalistic ethics. It's not as bad as Rather, but, unlike Rather, I believe that there was actual knowledge of the fakery involved. I doubt they somehow just got their hands on a pre-edited tape. I think they did it themselves.

So it's knowingly distorted the news for political advantage, and not through opinion or ignorance or dumb blather, but a cynical decision to misinform.

And it's very obvious, and very dangerous.

It's fucking pathological is what it is. If they hadn't been edging further and further in this direction for the past decade I might actually be shocked.

260 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:11:57pm

re: #240 Charles

Funny peculiar. And I find it odd that my pointing out hypocrisy is an animating factor is causing so much consternation.

261 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:12:26pm

LMAO. Okay, I'm outta here....

262 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:12:27pm

re: #203 CuriousLurker

Ah, so then you're just deeply, deeply concerned the upkeep of President Obama's moral integrity, is that it?

There are some very visible reasons Obama can't do it on his own, the least of which is he's from Chicago.

263 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:12:41pm

re: #259 goddamnedfrank

It's fucking pathological is what it is. If they hadn't been edging further and further in this direction for the past decade I might actually be shocked.

Murdoch: the hyper-Hearst

264 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:13:15pm

'media_bite' sparring on twitter with Ed Henry of Fox:

media_bite David
by media_bite
Full quote, Jimmy Hoffa Jr: "Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back & keep the eye on the prize, let's take these sons of bitches out"

@edhenryTV Ed Henry
@media_bite sorry you don't like to hear #facts reported, but have a wonderful day

media_bite David
@edhenryTV You have absolutely no respect for facts, or the concept of journalism

265 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:13:19pm

re: #260 ConservativeMe

Funny peculiar. And I find it odd that my pointing out hypocrisy is an animating factor is causing so much consternation.

"Odd" like someone who thinks it's odd, or "odd" like someone doing their best to spin a horrible Fox News scandal and seeing it fail?

266 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:13:41pm

re: #262 b_sharp

There are some very visible reasons Obama can't do it on his own, the least of which is he's from Chicago.

Chicago thug! Community organizer! Harvard elitist! I still think among hte most sleazy attacks on Obama has been for being a community organizer. Yeah, what a terrible profession that is.

267 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:13:52pm

re: #256 Charles

I don't know.

Can't you check something like that?

If you'd rather I didn't comment just say so and I'll delete and go on my merry way.

268 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:14:12pm

re: #260 ConservativeMe

Funny peculiar. And I find it odd that my pointing out hypocrisy is an animating factor is causing so much consternation.

How hypocritical of Obama to share the stage with someone who called for an army of voters! Such divisiveness! What's he going to do next, try to make his 2012 opponent look bad?!?!

269 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:14:21pm

re: #262 b_sharp

There are some very visible reasons Obama can't do it on his own, the least of which is he's from Chicago.

Honestly, I liked him better when he was hanging with Rahm Emanuel. Hoffa just doesn't have the flair.

270 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:14:31pm

re: #267 ConservativeMe

I don't know.

Can't you check something like that?

If you'd rather I didn't comment just say so and I'll delete and go on my merry way.

I'm just curious. Care to answer the question directly?

271 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:15:57pm

re: #246 ConservativeMe

It just hurts my head to think how stupid a person has to be to believe a guy like Hoffa is stupid enough to call for what amounts to riots and gang-violence on national TV with the President in attendance. Something like that just simply wouldn't cross my mind.

Lmao

57 states arugula telepropmter reparations seiu union violence fema thuuuuuugs!!!!!

272 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:16:07pm

re: #265 Charles

More like Odd, I rolled a 3 and a 4.

273 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:16:14pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

Yeah, so I didn't down-ding you til this comment.

Really? I mean, REALLY?

Obama is at a speech where someone says something in a tone other Bring Out The Comfy Chair and he's a hypocrite, compared with people that indulge their own appetites for man-on-man action whiling wanting to legislate away people's right to express themselves sexually and emotionally with the same...while publicly making declarations about the immorality of same-sex relations?

This is not a Muller-Lyer illusion. One of these things is a more and one of these things is a beam.

Speaking of which...that New Tone speech was suggestion that no-one took him up on, not a binding pact sealed in blood while goetic demons taking stenographic notes and filing the proper documents in the Assessor's Office in Pandemonium. Acting like him saying it made it canon law for all Democrats is a different kind of molehill/mountain transposition bullshit.

274 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:16:27pm

re: #270 Charles

Um, no, I've never had an account here before.

275 bratwurst  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:16:27pm

re: #256 Charles

Why am I getting the feeling you might have had an account at LGF before this one?

The way he responded to a mention of the name of a certain youthful supporter of the libertarian cause got my Spidey sense tingling.

276 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:16:47pm

re: #266 HappyWarrior

Chicago thug! Community organizer! Harvard elitist! I still think among hte most sleazy attacks on Obama has been for being a community organizer. Yeah, what a terrible profession that is.

He could have been performing great services for the country before entering politics, like Dick Cheney doubtlessly was at Halliburton.

277 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:17:01pm

That smell is getting stronger.

278 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:18:08pm

re: #276 Atlas Fails

He could have been doing great services to the country before entering politics, like Dick Cheney doubtlessly was at Halliburton.

Didn't Mitt Romney have a job in business where be basically put a bunch of people out of work? Yeah, that's a much better role model than a man who works in his community to improve the lot of the downtrodden.

279 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:19:59pm

re: #201 Buck

Same thing as when you target someone in an election?

The 'targeting' was a gun sight and done during a time when people were fast and loose about violence towards Obama. Gun sights have a very specific purpose that involves killing or maiming. The context is built into the imagery and has to be viewed within the larger context of the violent rhetoric of Tea Party parties.

'Wiping out' also has a similar meaning under the right context, but it also has a number of figurative meanings that depend on context. The context of Hoffa's statement was clearly voting during an election.

Neither were good ideas, but the gun sight was a far more pointed threat.

280 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:20:06pm

(Fox) Ed Henry's first tweet on the Hoffa topic

edhenryTV Ed Henry
oh my ... Jimmy Hoffa: "let's take these sons of a bitches out" he says of Republicans in Congress #obamadetroit
8 hours ago

Oh My!

281 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:20:33pm

re: #273 The Ghost of a Flea

I had no clue I was speaking in riddles. I was just using an example that came to mind quickly and would be known to commenters here.

So, let's dispense with the examples.

Does hypocrisy matter at all?

And, because I will be seen as trying to "spin" for FOX unless I add something like this to every post on this thread:

FOX should not have edited the video at all. It was a stupid, underhanded thing to do. While it didn't matter much to me, there are many people out there it mattered to, and FOX should report news, not make it up. Bad FOX.

282 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:21:59pm

re: #281 ConservativeMe

I had no clue I was speaking in riddles. I was just using an example that came to mind quickly and would be known to commenters here.

So, let's dispense with the examples.

Does hypocrisy matter at all?

And, because I will be seen as trying to "spin" for FOX unless I add something like this to every post on this thread:

FOX should not have edited the video at all. It was a stupid, underhanded thing to do. While it didn't matter much to me, there are many people out there it mattered to, and FOX should report news, not make it up. Bad FOX.

A textbook example of how to minimize right wing lies. Bravo!

283 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:22:13pm

re: #210 ConservativeMe

No, I like to point out when my political opponents don't live up to their own principles/words.

I'm sure nothing that stupid ever goes on around here.

Yes of course. Our actions make their actions AOK.

I swear I saw the magical balance fairy flitting about, just a moment ago.

284 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:22:29pm

re: #281 ConservativeMe

I had no clue I was speaking in riddles. I was just using an example that came to mind quickly and would be known to commenters here.

So, let's dispense with the examples.

Does hypocrisy matter at all?

And, because I will be seen as trying to "spin" for FOX unless I add something like this to every post on this thread:

FOX should not have edited the video at all. It was a stupid, underhanded thing to do. While it didn't matter much to me, there are many people out there it mattered to, and FOX should report news, not make it up. Bad FOX.

Hypocrisy maters but Obama wasn't a hypocrite in any way shape or form because the Republicans turned down his offer for creating a new tone, thus he is in no way bound to try and create such a thing.

285 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:22:53pm

re: #278 HappyWarrior

Didn't Mitt Romney have a job in business where be basically put a bunch of people out of work? Yeah, that's a much better role model than a man who works in his community to improve the lot of the downtrodden.

I can't understand the qualities these so-called Christians choose to exalt. Who would Jesus hold in higher regard, teachers and social workers or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies?

286 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:23:12pm

re: #212 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Frothing

I froth twice a day. I also brush and gargle. It keeps my teeth nice and clean.

287 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:23:52pm

re: #285 Atlas Fails

I can't understand the qualities these so-called Christians choose to idolize. Who would Jesus hold in higher regard, teachers and social workers or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies?

obvious CEO's. Blessed is he with 20 yachts, stupid is he who teaches his fellow man. I think that was in the Bible somewhere.

288 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:24:13pm

re: #285 Atlas Fails

I can't understand the qualities these so-called Christians choose to idolize. Who would Jesus hold in higher regard, teachers and social workers or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies?

Obviously CEOs, as demonstrated by the wealth he has blessed them with./

289 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:24:13pm

re: #215 Buck

What I think is not the topic. It is what Union organizer Hoffa thinks...

Indeed. And what does your psychic ability tell you Hoffa thinks?

290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:24:43pm

re: #285 Atlas Fails

Do you agree that there has to be both?

Who pays a teacher or a social worker without a Fortune 500 company. All can be positive forces.

291 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:26:14pm

re: #282 Charles

What on Earth would have to be done to not minimize right wing lies?

Should I have hopped on the thread, said "Goddamn FOX news, the liars!" and left?

I tried to introduce something else to the thread that is a large part of the story, at least from a rightwinger's (my) view.

Can I not just want to talk about something other than the dasterdlyness of FOX without being a jackass here?

292 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:26:15pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

keep mashing those keys! Maybe by accident you'll say something smart!

132.23 * 10126 against.

293 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:27:08pm

re: #290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do you agree that there has to be both?

Who pays a teacher or a social worker without a Fortune 500 company. All can be positive forces.

Absolutely. But the corruption of social workers didn't wreck our economy.

294 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:27:19pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

Yeah, because we can't have anyone lead by example...

295 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:28:02pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:28:28pm

re: #287 HappyWarrior

obvious CEO's. Blessed is he with 20 yachts, stupid is he who teaches his fellow man. I think that was in the Bible somewhere.

something about how easy it is for a community organizer being able to fit through the eye of a needle, I'm sure that's in there, in the King Norquist Pseudoabridged Revised Version

297 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:28:30pm

re: #294 ConservativeMe

Yeah, because we can't have anyone lead by example...

What has Obama personally said that could be reasonably deemed uncivil?

298 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:28:37pm

re: #277 Charles

What?

299 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:28:43pm

The problem I have is that Fox either edited this knowingly or didn't bother too check. So, in my eyes they're either hacks or shitty journalists, neither of which are a good thing fwiw. They presented this to their audience knowing that it would get resentments from the people who are convinced that union thugs are going around ruining their lives. I think Hoffa was a little over the top in what he said but the full context shows the man was talking about getting out the vote. And I have no tolerance for the Tea Party whining about this when they have said more assine shit than Hoffa did.

300 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:29:00pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

The irony piques our interest.

An anti-gay gay politician is no different than an anti-gay religious nut, except for the obvious irony. We do do irony here, by the way.

301 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:29:03pm

re: #297 Atlas Fails

No, see, Obama not only has to set an example, but if any Democrat fucks up it's on him. New rules.

302 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:29:34pm

re: #296 WindUpBird

something about how easy it is for a community organizer being able to fit through the eye of a needle, I'm sure that's in there, in the King Norquist Pseudoabridged Revised Version

Is the King Norquist the one that says Take your grandparents social security money and put it towards a sports car?

303 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:29:35pm

re: #294 ConservativeMe

Yeah, because we can't have anyone lead by example...

He tried to lead by example, it failed... should he fulfil the definition of insanity by continuing to try to establish a "New Tone" with an opposing party that clearly doesn't want to?

304 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:30:24pm

re: #294 ConservativeMe

Yeah, because we can't have anyone lead by example...

I might be able to get worked up about the President's "hypocrisy" if the TP weren't SOBs, and the Right wasn't spending 24 hours/day calling Democrats traitorous commie perverts bent on destroying America.

305 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:30:58pm

re: #297 Atlas Fails

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

Rather, is it so hard to see the hypocrisy in calling for civility, then sharing a stage with someone who calls his political opponents "sons of bitches" and uses war imagery and words to talk about a political conflict?

Am I crazy?

306 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:32:14pm

re: #300 b_sharp

The irony piques our interest.

An anti-gay gay politician is no different than an anti-gay religious nut, except for the obvious irony. We do do irony here, by the way.

Not to be a grammar Godwin, but irony is when the exact opposite of what you would expect happens. Anymore, I'm surprised when a rabidly anti-gay politician isn't caught with a rentboy.

307 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:32:30pm

re: #303 jamesfirecat

If at first you don't succeed.

re: #304 aagcobb

I'd get out more if I was you.

308 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:32:39pm

We make snark about It’s Okay if You’re a Republican, but the fact the matter is, it is.

That’s what thirty years of ever-increasing propaganda and rhetoric has done. It’s inserted into the public consciousness that it really is okay for ‘patriots’ to talk about secession, to talk about violent resistance to the government in very thinly veiled terms, to talk about liberals like they’re the mortal enemy of all that’s good and holy, and so on. And should anyone else plumb the depths, such as what has occurred here, then the average citizen is frustrated that ‘both sides are bickering’. And as soon as that bit of ‘both sides bickering’ is over, then we return to the regular undercurrent of venomous rhetoric aimed at average Americans, without the blink of an eyelid.

Conservative cult rhetoric has poisoned the well of common knowledge in America. Powerful media personality makes hate-filled and vicious commentary? He’s just a patriot who loves his country and is frustrated with people he doesn’t agree with. It’s okay. Elected politicians make threats of secession? It’s okay. Candidates blatantly talk of ‘Second Amendment solutions’ to get their way? It’s okay. Elected officials hold the economy of the world hostage to enact policies that will harm a majority of Americans? It’s okay; I just wish both sides would stop bickering. Thousands of Americans killed and injured every year so a few people can cuddle guns to sleep? It’s okay. It’s just – okay.

It’s okay to dismiss anything someone says by suggesting that it might be ‘liberal’. It’s okay to be suspicious of science because someone in the media has an unfounded opinion that facts aren’t really facts. It’s okay that elected officials report to plutocrats like their minions. It’s okay that poor people get sick and die, because we can pretend they made ‘bad choices’. It’s just – okay.

I just hope that when the rest of the world develops a media as all-encompassing as the US, they learn from these lessons.

309 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:33:02pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

Rather, is it so hard to see the hypocrisy in calling for civility, then sharing a stage with someone who calls his political opponents "sons of bitches" and uses war imagery and words to talk about a political conflict?

Am I crazy?

No, I think you know exactly what you are doing.

310 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:33:11pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Is it so hard to see the hypocrisy in calling the president a foreigner who wants to destroy America, then calling for civility?

311 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:33:13pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

[citation needed]

312 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:33:44pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

So you actually want him what, to have not gone on stage? Seriously?

313 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:33:58pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

Feel free to show some.

314 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:34:06pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

Rather, is it so hard to see the hypocrisy in calling for civility, then sharing a stage with someone who calls his political opponents "sons of bitches" and uses war imagery and words to talk about a political conflict?

Am I crazy?

Sources please. I know what comments you're referencing, and they didn't say at all what you claimed.

315 recusancy  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:34:38pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

Rather, is it so hard to see the hypocrisy in calling for civility, then sharing a stage with someone who calls his political opponents "sons of bitches" and uses war imagery and words to talk about a political conflict?

Am I crazy?

Out of curiosity, who's patriotism did he question?

316 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:34:48pm

re: #174 ConservativeMe

So, while the New Tone is a good and desirable thing, your opponents don't cotton to it, so you don't have to either?

Possibly. When 'Come, let us reason together," is met with "Screw you, commie," it tends to send a message.

317 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:36:29pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

Rather, is it so hard to see the hypocrisy in calling for civility, then sharing a stage with someone who calls his political opponents "sons of bitches" and uses war imagery and words to talk about a political conflict?

Am I crazy?

What has the GOP done to earn Obama's civility?

He called for it, they spurned him.

He isn't doing again.

Is there something wrong with this?

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:36:57pm

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about doing it by voting

Buck, I KNOW you've made excuses for every outrageous statement that's come from the right in the last couple of years. Mostly because you've made them here.

Forgive me if I do not worry about what you think of Jimmy Hoffa Jr's language.

319 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:37:12pm

re: #307 ConservativeMe

If at first you don't succeed.

re: #304 aagcobb

I'd get out more if I was you.

Don't throw good money after bad.

320 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:37:17pm

re: #246 ConservativeMe

I meant it didn't matter for me understanding the context of Hoffa remarks.

It does matter for simple honesty and integrity. It was stupid of them to do it, and as Charles showed at least one (probably many more) person thought Hoffa was calling for union violence against the Tea Party.

I have trouble thinking like a stupid person, so my initial thought that the edit didn't matter that much for context was probably off-base.

It just hurts my head to think how stupid a person has to be to believe a guy like Hoffa is stupid enough to call for what amounts to riots and gang-violence on national TV with the President in attendance. Something like that just simply wouldn't cross my mind.

It crosses far too many minds that are fuelled by Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, Bachmann, Geller, etc..

321 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:38:04pm

Honestly, I am surprised Obama has been as civil as he has been with the right. Shit, if I were Obama and dealt with what he's gotten, I'd have a reputation worse than Truman and Nixon with my political opponents. These guys have literally questioned his love of country time and time again while he tries in good faith to negotiate with them. He hasn't been perfect but he's been really calm given the context.

322 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:38:56pm

re: #312 Obdicut

I can imagine any number of circumstances, from having aides talk to Hoffa pre-speech, to him throwing in some lines about how, while the election is important and he needs the unions fired up, demonizing their opponents is not good for the Party or the Country.

323 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:39:20pm

re: #320 b_sharp

It crosses far too many minds that are fuelled by Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, Bachmann, Geller, etc..

That's the problem, violence has been talked about so much on those sites in the comment threads that it seems reasonable for them to suspect that unions might be up to the same thing.

324 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:40:24pm

re: #322 ConservativeMe

I can imagine any number of circumstances, from having aides talk to Hoffa pre-speech, to him throwing in some lines about how, while the election is important and he needs the unions fired up, demonizing their opponents is not good for the Party or the Country.

Demonizing opponents is bad for the country, you say? Would you be willing to pass this message onto the Tea Party?

325 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:40:25pm

re: #322 ConservativeMe

I can imagine any number of circumstances, from having aides talk to Hoffa pre-speech, to him throwing in some lines about how, while the election is important and he needs the unions fired up, demonizing their opponents is not good for the Party or the Country.

"Sons of bitches" is pretty weak tea as afar as demonization goes honestly.

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:40:30pm

re: #228 ConservativeMe

Yes, and I know that the anti-gay GOP gets coverage here, but for some reason, I can't quite put my finger on it, there seems to be much more activity when the said anti-gay GOP member turns out to be gay.

Funny, that.

Because people who gain votes by trashing out gay folks, while secretly indulging in (usually adulterous) gay sex are so contemptible that they become funny, rather than merely pathetic?

327 docproto48  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:40:37pm

re: #13 Lidane

He's so full of shit. Not paying attention to politics? Pfft.

Oh he's paying attention all right, he sure found a convenient chance to get out of debating or whatever they call this one. In fact if he does get the republican nomination I look for him to "decline" to debate Obama due to something he has to pay attention to. If I believed he really left SC due to the fires in Texas that would be one thing but his prior retoric contradicts that notion.
I'm sure Ron Paul will soundly criticize him for it since government doesn't have a place in natural (man made?) disasters

328 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:40:44pm

re: #322 ConservativeMe

I can imagine any number of circumstances, from having aides talk to Hoffa pre-speech, to him throwing in some lines about how, while the election is important and he needs the unions fired up, demonizing their opponents is not good for the Party or the Country.

In the context of the Right's rhetoric, calling them SOBs is practically a compliment.

329 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:42:32pm

re: #269 Decatur Deb

Honestly, I liked him better when he was hanging with Rahm Emanuel. Hoffa just doesn't have the flair.

Good point.
No, really, it was.

I think.
Let me check with the wife and I'll get back to you.

330 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:43:27pm

re: #322 ConservativeMe

You think that Obama should have vetting power over everyone's speeches that are given at events he's at? Isn't that a bit tyrannical?

Sure. He could have said that the swearing was out of line. It hardly makes him a hypocrite for not doing it. He never said "I have zero tolerance for any violent rhetoric", he called on both sides to tone down the heat. He didn't say he'd immediately castigate anyone who didn't do it.

The man himself has been incredibly goddamn civil throughout all of this, throughout all the dumbass attacks, through the pathetic moral state of the GOP. You've claimed he's questioned the patriotism of others, and yet you haven't had the decency to back that up.

And for some reason, the incredibly dangerous fact that a large media outlet is now blatantly disinforming its watchers even as to the basic facts of what has occurred, is somehow unimportant to you. All you want to do is talk about who somehow Obama is a hypocrite though you can't actually frame anything he said in a way that makes giving a speech with someone who was uncivil hypocritical.

You're trying way, way, way too hard, and it shows.

331 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:43:28pm

re: #215 Buck

What I think is not the topic.

That's the best summary of every single thing you post. Well done.

332 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:43:49pm

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about doing it by voting

Are you fucking shitting me?

"there's going to be an election in 2012 and maybe we're going to whipe these people out"

Seriously, why count on people not watching the video you link to? Don't you think people are going to check your claims. The video you linked to didn't even have the courtesy of deceptively editing to support your claim. Why bother?

333 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:44:00pm

re: #311 goddamnedfrank

1) Bush is unpatriotic.

2) Congressional Republicans are unpatriotic.

"“We're going to see if we’ve got some straight shooters, see if congressional Republicans can put country before party..."

334 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:44:43pm

re: #317 jamesfirecat

You don't "earn" someone's civility.

335 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:45:27pm

re: #333 ConservativeMe

1) Bush is unpatriotic.

2) Congressional Republicans are unpatriotic.

"“We're going to see if we’ve got some straight shooters, see if congressional Republicans can put country before party..."

Weak.

336 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:45:34pm

re: #334 ConservativeMe

You don't "earn" someone's civility.

Keep spitting on my hand every time I offer it to you to shake and see how many times I offer to shake your hand.

337 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:46:18pm

re: #334 ConservativeMe

You sure do lose the right to it by being uncivil, though. A gracious person, like Obama, will continue to give it, though.

338 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:46:27pm

Hey lizards.

The long weekend is almost over. Back to work tomorrow. (at least I have work to go to)

I spent my time off baking bread.

339 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:46:30pm

ConservativeMe, conservatives and libertarians are a distinct minority on this board. We are not absent, but we are greatly outnumbered.

I don't misrepresent my beliefs at LGF, but I behave with less restraint among my homeys than I do here. Afaic that's just common sense. This is not a bad place to blow off steam wrt the lunacy in the Right. I try to ignore comments and commenters with whom constructive engagement is not promising.

My advice: You've expressed your opinion. Unless you have something new and material to add, let this drop.

340 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47:06pm

re: #324 Atlas Fails

Would you be willing to pass it on to the unions?

Christ, the Left does shit all the time I don't like, I didn't come here to hang it around your neck. Don't hang the Tea Party around mine.

341 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47:07pm

re: #333 ConservativeMe

1) Bush is unpatriotic.

2) Congressional Republicans are unpatriotic.

"“We're going to see if we’ve got some straight shooters, see if congressional Republicans can put country before party..."

Republicans were going to make America default for the first time ever over demanding spending cuts, and some of their were spending cuts dealing with their social agenda.

Sorry to have to say this to you, but honestly they were putting party before country and I don't see how any unbiased person could think otherwise.

342 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47:53pm

re: #339 jvic

If he's got a good argument to make, let him make it. Doesn't really look like he does, though.

And he's hijacked the thread from the get-go, speaking of breaches of civility.

343 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47:55pm

re: #305 ConservativeMe

Oh, he's said a number of things, including questioning the patriotism of people who disagree with him.

Could you supply a link please?

Am I crazy?

That is yet to be seen.

344 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:47:59pm

re: #321 HappyWarrior

Totally agree.

345 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:48:02pm

re: #333 ConservativeMe

1) Bush is unpatriotic.

2) Congressional Republicans are unpatriotic.

"“We're going to see if we’ve got some straight shooters, see if congressional Republicans can put country before party..."

How uncivil! He practically called Republicans traitors! It's a wonder this didn't inspire riots flash mobs!!!

346 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:49:21pm

re: #330 Obdicut

Maybe he shouldn't be giving speeches on stages shared by people who speak like Hoffa does.

347 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:50:09pm

re: #340 ConservativeMe

Would you be willing to pass it on to the unions?

Christ, the Left does shit all the time I don't like, I didn't come here to hang it around your neck. Don't hang the Tea Party around mine.

Sure, I'll let the unions know they need to stop advocating the violent overthrow and implied murder of any candidate they disagree with.

You still haven't answered my question.

348 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:50:20pm

re: #341 jamesfirecat

Ah, so it is an objective fact that House Republicans are unpatriotic.

We should stop typing to each other, as there is no commonplace for an argument here.

349 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:50:37pm

re: #346 ConservativeMe

Maybe he shouldn't be giving speeches on stages shared by people who speak like Hoffa does.

Maybe geese are great for wiping your ass with.

If that's your opinion-- that no speaker should share a stage with anyone who's used violent rhetoric-- are you expecting that the entire GOP aside from the ones who have made such statements boycott their convention?

350 tnguitarist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:50:47pm

re: #322 ConservativeMe

I can imagine any number of circumstances, from having aides talk to Hoffa pre-speech, to him throwing in some lines about how, while the election is important and he needs the unions fired up, demonizing their opponents is not good for the Party or the Country.

Are you calling for those on the right to have the same tone?

351 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:50:50pm

re: #346 ConservativeMe

Maybe he shouldn't be giving speeches on stages shared by people who speak like Hoffa does.

Yeah because Americans love a man who refuses to get down and dirty when the time comes and its clear that the other side is no longer acting like a rational political organization and more like a cult.

F*** it...

Americans love a winner!

352 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:51:04pm

re: #312 Obdicut

So you actually want him what, to have not gone on stage? Seriously?

To have slapped Hoffa on the back of the head while yelling 'dumkopf.'

353 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:51:11pm

re: #348 ConservativeMe

Did you support the hostage-taking of the debt ceiling?

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:52:08pm

re: #352 b_sharp

To have slapped Hoffa on the back of the head while yelling 'dumkopf.'

I would, actually, pay to have seen that, despite sharing Hoffa's general aspirations for the election.

355 tnguitarist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:53:04pm

Some folks want Obama to turn the other cheek so they can punch him on the other side of his face. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

356 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:53:25pm

re: #350 tnguitarist

Like Sharron Angle, who has said that “armed resistance” to the federal government is sometimes appropriate.

357 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:53:46pm

re: #348 ConservativeMe

Ah, so it is an objective fact that House Republicans are unpatriotic.

We should stop typing to each other, as there is no commonplace for an argument here.

I'm not saying they were unpatriotic is the only reason they could have done what they did, they also could have been idiots in that situation for example many of them seemed to be intent on driving us into default with the best of intentions. But from the stand point of a truly objective economist point of view, YOU DON'T PLAY CHICKEN WITH THE FAITH OF AMERICA'S ABILITY TO PAY ITS BILLS!

I'll comment on any comment of yours I like to.

If you want to stop responding be my guest.

358 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:53:46pm

re: #246 ConservativeMe

It just hurts my head to think how stupid a person has to be to believe a guy like Hoffa is stupid enough to call for what amounts to riots and gang-violence on national TV with the President in attendance. Something like that just simply wouldn't cross my mind.

What, you mean Buck?

359 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:53:55pm

re: #153 ConservativeMe

I replied to someone else, they shouldn't have edited the video as they did. It was stupid of them to do it, and opened them up to people like you calling them out on their BS.

But when I watched the edited clip, I took from it the exact same message as what was in the unedited clip. I never thought for a moment Hoffa was calling for massive violence, only firing up his audience at a political rally for the cause of... politics (i.e getting them to GOTV and other political activities). Albeit with rhetoric the President was condemning not so long ago.

The Fox "creative edit" is unvarnished bullshit and you know it (or, at least you should, if not for partisan blinders). The take-away message from Hoffa between what Fox reported Hoffa said and what Hoffa actually said, in its full context is completely different. The reality is that he wasn't talking about bringing violence against TPers, but rather to mobilize at the polls against them, just as the TPers have been doing to them; that's the "war" he's talking about. Yeah, he was blunt in calling TPers "sons of bitches", but what do you expect from a Hoffa?

For you to argue otherwise is unflinching, willful ignorance and dishonesty on your part and an insult to my intelligence.

360 ConservativeMe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:54:05pm

re: #342 Obdicut

So, that's a bad thing? How good a thread would it have been with 50-60 people saying "Goddamned those bastards at FOX!" I thought these boards were for discussion. Maybe not so much.

I'm rather impressed by the number of minuses I've racked up for saying pretty uncontroversial things in a polite way.

Oh well.

Goodnight.

361 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:54:05pm

And saying an act is unpatriotic is not at all the same as saying that a person is unpatriotic. So your links didn't prove your claim. I can say that people investing more in foreign companies than domestic ones are being unpatriotic by doing so. It wouldn't be saying that they weren't patriotic. Shit, I might be saying it to them to stir their patriotism into action.

Which is exactly what Obama was doing with the congressional Republicans. He was appealing to their sense of patriotism, and yet you somehow interpret that as calling the unpatriotic.

Logic.

362 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:54:13pm

re: #323 jaunte

That's the problem, violence has been talked about so much on those sites in the comment threads that it seems reasonable for them to suspect that unions might be up to the same thing.

You (not you personally) are far more likely to believe of others actions and thoughts you yourself would do.

363 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:54:28pm

re: #352 b_sharp

To have slapped Hoffa on the back of the head while yelling 'dumkopf.'

I know nothink!

364 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:54:50pm

re: #349 Obdicut

Maybe geese are great for wiping your ass with.

I don't know why but that made my day. Thank you.

365 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:55:08pm

re: #355 tnguitarist

Some folks want Obama to turn the other cheek so they can punch him on the other side of his face. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

Pretty much. I imagine the story, had Obama done as suggested and simply refused to go onto the same stage as Hoffa due to his use of salty language, would read something like "Obama Snubs Workers/Unions, Walks Out On Prepared Speech."

366 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:55:26pm

re: #360 ConservativeMe

You haven't actually engaged with an argument, and you freely admit hijacking the thread for what you wanted to talk about, basically calling the original topic boring.

And yet somehow you see yourself as this paragon of civility and reasonableness.

Amazing.

367 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:55:50pm

It actually reminds me of the bully who says all sorts of nasty shit about you, your family, and whatever. Then one day, you say fuck it, I am going to tell this son of a bitch off. So you do, and the first thing he does is run to the teacher about how you called him a bad word and acts like it was unprovoked and he's been nothing but good to you. Did Hoffa go overboard a little by calling them sobs, yeah he probably did but that is tame by a lot of the shit I've seen. We had an actual US senator, Tom Coburn saying that it was a shame he didn't have his gun with him on the Senate floor.

368 tnguitarist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:55:50pm

It's victim time!

369 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:55:54pm

re: #360 ConservativeMe

Evading Obdicut's debt-ceiling question?

370 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:56:10pm

I expect to see more of this kind of blatant trolling as we get closer to the election.

Much more.

371 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:56:19pm

re: #339 jvic

ConservativeMe, conservatives and libertarians are a distinct minority on this board.

re: #251 ConservativeMe

This is the problem with being a minority voice.

Oh, is it.

e_e

Conservatives who think they know something about "being a minority voice" because they get pushback on some blog comments once in a blue moon...thanks fellas - I could use a laugh today!

372 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:56:50pm

re: #364 goddamnedfrank

I don't know why but that made my day. Thank you.

It's actually from Rabelais's book Gargantua. Hilarious goddamn book, think you'd like it.

373 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:56:56pm

re: #6 HappyWarrior

I know. I am just amazed how blatant the edit is. Sleazy hacks posing as journalists.

Must Concur. Hoffa's words were perhaps intemperate, but I cannot read them as a call for violence. I would have to say that Fox thought that it would be enough to simply edit him and then remind people of whose son he is. But the younger Hoffa is not the criminal his father was, and Fox News is very wrong to paint him as such.

374 tnguitarist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:57:14pm

re: #365 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pretty much. I imagine the story, had Obama done as suggested and simply refused to go onto the same stage as Hoffa due to his use of salty language, would read something like "Obama Snubs Workers/Unions, Walks Out On Prepared Speech."

Eggzachary.

375 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:57:39pm

re: #365 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pretty much. I imagine the story, had Obama done as suggested and simply refused to go onto the same stage as Hoffa due to his use of salty language, would read something like "Obama Snubs Workers/Unions, Walks Out On Prepared Speech."

Exactly, they'd call him a snobby elitist. "Why doesn't the president want to be seen with real working men." or they'd call him a coward. He can't win with the Fox crowd at all.

376 tnguitarist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:57:54pm

re: #370 Charles

I expect to see more of this kind of blatant trolling as we get closer to the election.

Much more.

These are just dry runs.

377 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:58:27pm

re: #350 tnguitarist

Are you calling for those on the right to have the same tone?

No.

God's Favorites get to take whatever tone they please, with whomever they want. For the Bible tells me so.

378 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:58:47pm

re: #370 Charles

I expect to see more of this kind of blatant trolling as we get closer to the election.

Much more.


///But I thought you wanted trolling!

379 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:58:57pm

@Wolfrum: I can't believe a union leader would call Republicans sons of bitches. How mean. What has the GOP ever said or done to unions?

380 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:59:33pm

re: #376 tnguitarist

These are just dry runs.

More like dry heaves, because willful ignorance, dishonesty and evasion make me want to retch.

381 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:59:42pm

re: #346 ConservativeMe

You do understand that you are not helping. Right?

382 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:59:51pm

re: #370 Charles

I expect to see more of this kind of blatant trolling as we get closer to the election.

Much more.

And way worse. Conservatives will do NOTHING to stem it, and will just keep going along with it until someone gets hurt. It's what they are out for.

383 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:00:15pm

re: #333 ConservativeMe

1) Bush is unpatriotic.

2) Congressional Republicans are unpatriotic.

"“We're going to see if we’ve got some straight shooters, see if congressional Republicans can put country before party..."

Say what?

384 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:00:57pm

re: #356 jaunte

Like Sharron Angle, who has said that “armed resistance” to the federal government is sometimes appropriate.

This is the thing.

I will openly say that there have been statements by Republicans that I think have been overly mined here in the LGF comments for malicious intent. But there have also been a LOT of comments by right-wing politicians and pundits that have been so egregiously over the top that any complaints about James Hoffa, let alone Obama sharing a dais with him, seem a bit disingenous.

385 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:01:07pm

One can only imagine how Fox would react today to Malcolm X's famous "The Ballot or the Bullet" speech. My guess? "'Civil Rights Leader' Advocates Armed Violence!"

386 [deleted]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:01:35pm
387 andres  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:01:50pm

re: #348 ConservativeMe

Ah, so it is an objective fact that House Republicans are unpatriotic.

We should stop typing to each other, as there is no commonplace for an argument here.

When said House Republicans place their demands, or the US economy will suffer greatly for it, it's pretty hard not to say they were putting their party over their country.

388 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:02:45pm

re: #386 ConservativeMe

Your wish is my command.

389 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:02:55pm

re: #385 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

One can only imagine how Fox would react today to Malcolm X's famous "The Ballot or the Bullet" speech. My guess? "'Civil Rights Leader' Advocates Armed Violence!"

On a side note, at some point I was going to write a fantasy novel that involved a character commenting "we'll either get this done by dialogue, or by daggers" which I still consider a rather clever turn of the phrase.

390 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:03:06pm

"Give me victimy or give me delete!"

391 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:03:14pm

re: #338 Alouette

Hey lizards.

The long weekend is almost over. Back to work tomorrow. (at least I have work to go to)

I spent my time off baking bread.

And you're (Star Trek) transporting it to me, right?

392 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:03:22pm

re: #386 ConservativeMe

God, life is so fucking hard. You got to derail the conversation onto the topic you wanted but you're unhappy about how the conversation went and by having people argue back with you.

Goddamn emopublicans.

393 tnguitarist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:03:48pm

re: #386 ConservativeMe

I can't seem to delete my own account, so feel free to do so for me.

Sigh.

You poor, misunderstood creature.

394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:03:58pm

re: #385 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

One can only imagine how Fox would react today to Malcolm X's famous "The Ballot or the Bullet" speech. My guess? "'Civil Rights Leader' Advocates Armed Violence!"

Look what their kind did to MLK, who did just the opposite.

395 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:04:33pm

re: #360 ConservativeMe

So, that's a bad thing? How good a thread would it have been with 50-60 people saying "Goddamned those bastards at FOX!" I thought these boards were for discussion. Maybe not so much.

I'm rather impressed by the number of minuses I've racked up for saying pretty uncontroversial things in a polite way.

Oh well.

Goodnight.

Evading little weasel...you know that, on the subject of this thread, you were getting your ass handed to you with straight-up facts and no bullshit.

You must have taken the Internet Commenter course from Sir Robin:

Youtube Video
396 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:04:49pm

re: #368 tnguitarist

It's victim time!

Slavery was a long time ago, black people need to stop trying to guilt trip Real 'Merkins with that tired old complaint. White Christian males are now the most persecuted group in the US. Flash mobs!!!1!111!!11ty

397 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:06:54pm

re: #384 SanFranciscoZionist

This is the thing.

I will openly say that there have been statements by Republicans that I think have been overly mined here in the LGF comments for malicious intent. But there have also been a LOT of comments by right-wing politicians and pundits that have been so egregiously over the top that any complaints about James Hoffa, let alone Obama sharing a dais with him, seem a bit disingenous.

No shit...this crap Fox is pulling (with the support of their fellow TPGOP travelers) is mindnumbingly blatant.

398 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:06:54pm

re: #375 HappyWarrior

Exactly, they'd call him a snobby elitist. "Why doesn't the president want to be seen with real working men." or they'd call him a coward. He can't win with the Fox crowd at all.

I doubt that Fox would be so positive about a union gathering, regardless. They'd trash Obama of course.

The Tea Party spokeslady having the vapors over Hoffa's speech in the WSJ says that many members of the Tea Party are Teamsters. I find this statement interesting, on a number of levels.

399 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:08:25pm

re: #392 Obdicut

God, life is so fucking hard. You got to derail the conversation onto the topic you wanted but you're unhappy about how the conversation went and by having people argue back with you.

Goddamn emopublicans.

I think Charles is right, we're going to see more dipshits like this. The ones who just happen to "wander in" on topics such as this, then make every effort to turn it into an "But Obama..." derailment. And then, after getting their asses beaten black and blue, whine that all they were trying to do is promote "discourse."

400 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:08:38pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

I doubt that Fox would be so positive about a union gathering, regardless. They'd trash Obama of course.

The Tea Party spokeslady having the vapors over Hoffa's speech in the WSJ says that many members of the Tea Party are Teamsters. I find this statement interesting, on a number of levels.

Probably true. I love the unions, but I love the Teamsters least of all. (My wife was a Teamster.)

401 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:09:34pm

re: #396 Atlas Fails

Slavery was a long time ago, black people need to stop trying to guilt trip Real 'Merkins with that tired old complaint. White Christian males are now the most persecuted group in the US. Flash Mobs!!!1!111!!11ty

.

You just don't understand!

I was told when I grow up I could do whatever I want, to whoever gets in my way, and now I CAN'T!!!!!

What about MY CIVIL RIGHTS!!

402 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:10:01pm

I see we just had a flounce. Thankfully, I do have some charcoal tonight, so I'll on with a Labor Day Troll-B-Q. For a special treat tonight, the dessert will be Chocolate-Dipped Martyr Cookies.

403 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:10:19pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

I doubt that Fox would be so positive about a union gathering, regardless. They'd trash Obama of course.

The Tea Party spokeslady having the vapors over Hoffa's speech in the WSJ says that many members of the Tea Party are Teamsters. I find this statement interesting, on a number of levels.

The Teamsters have always been a relatively conservative union. I am not sure if it was the older Hoffa's feud with the Kennedy bros that led to iit or not but Jimmy Sr did support Nixon and it was Nixon that pardoned him. I didn't realize the TP had so many Teamster members. I thought they were a more white collar crowd as a whole.

404 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:10:25pm

re: #400 Decatur Deb

Probably true. I love the unions, but I love the Teamsters least of all. (My wife was a Teamster.)

I wish I was a Teamster, so surly and lazy....

---Homer Simpson.

405 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:10:35pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

I doubt that Fox would be so positive about a union gathering, regardless. They'd trash Obama of course.

The Tea Party spokeslady having the vapors over Hoffa's speech in the WSJ says that many members of the Tea Party are Teamsters. I find this statement interesting, on a number of levels.

She's changing the Instapundit story:

Law professor and commentator Glenn Reynolds, best known as author of the Instapundit political blog, argued in the New York Post that: "These aren't the usual semiprofessional protesters who attend antiwar and pro-union marches. These are people with real jobs; most have never attended a protest march before. They represent a kind of energy that our politics hasn't seen lately, and an influx of new activists."[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

406 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:11:01pm

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

I see we just had a flounce. Thankfully, I do have some charcoal tonight, so I'll on with a Labor Day Troll-B-Q. For a special treat tonight, the dessert will be Chocolate-Dipped Martyr Cookies.

You're too good to us, D_F. Just remember, we need the meat well-done. Can't risk any food-borne illness, dontchaknow.

407 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:11:09pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

I doubt that Fox would be so positive about a union gathering, regardless. They'd trash Obama of course.

The Tea Party spokeslady having the vapors over Hoffa's speech in the WSJ says that many members of the Tea Party are Teamsters. I find this statement interesting, on a number of levels.

I find that statement bullshit.

408 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:11:34pm

re: #386 ConservativeMe

cn't sm t dlt m wn ccnt, s fl fr t d s fr m.
Sgh.

Spineless chump...you have to bring your A-game to LGF, because we won't tolerate lies, bullshit, or willfully covering for such.

Good riddance to bad rubbish...

409 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:11:51pm

re: #322 ConservativeMe

I can imagine any number of circumstances, from having aides talk to Hoffa pre-speech, to him throwing in some lines about how, while the election is important and he needs the unions fired up, demonizing their opponents is not good for the Party or the Country.

*Snort* Self righteous rightie is self righteous.

410 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:12:52pm

re: #408 talon_262

re: #386 ConservativeMe

Spineless chump...you have to bring your A-game to LGF, because we won't tolerate lies, bullshit, or willfully covering for such.

Good riddance to bad rubbish...

Nice disemvoweling of the flounce. Upding.

411 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:12:59pm

re: #361 Obdicut

And saying an act is unpatriotic is not at all the same as saying that a person is unpatriotic. So your links didn't prove your claim. I can say that people investing more in foreign companies than domestic ones are being unpatriotic by doing so. It wouldn't be saying that they weren't patriotic. Shit, I might be saying it to them to stir their patriotism into action.

Which is exactly what Obama was doing with the congressional Republicans. He was appealing to their sense of patriotism, and yet you somehow interpret that as calling the unpatriotic.

Logic.

Well said.

412 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:13:12pm

re: #401 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

.

And don't even get me started on the homofags and their special rights!!!!

413 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:13:26pm

re: #406 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You're too good to us, D_F. Just remember, we need the meat well-done. Can't risk any food-borne illness, dontchaknow.

Well done is how I like it, so don't worry.

414 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:13:39pm

re: #405 jaunte

She's changing the Instapundit story:

""These aren't the usual semiprofessional protesters who attend antiwar and pro-union marches. These are people with real jobs; most have never attended a protest march before. They represent a kind of energy that our politics hasn't seen lately, and an influx of new activists."

Yes that does describe the people who showed up at the Rally to restore Sanity (and or Fear) now that you mention it. What? You're talking about the Tea Party....?

415 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:14:05pm

I heard a family story that my grandfather, labor arbitrator knew the older Hoffa. Knew Walter Reuther too. Walter Reuther and John L. Lewis are two of my favorite union leaders in history. Reuther was a huge civil rights supporter and also despite the silly claims about unions being communist a staunch anti communist as well. Founder of the ADA with Eleanor Roosevelt, Arthur Schlessinger Jr, I read. And I like Lewis despite my disagreements with him on foreign policy because the mine workers union provided better lives for my grandparents growing up. The difference in life when my great grandfathers first entered the mines when they first emigrated here from Europe and when they stopped working in the years after WWII is astonishing.

416 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:14:44pm

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about doing it by voting

Wow. You're a real fucking Einstein, you know that?

417 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:15:10pm

re: #364 goddamnedfrank

I don't know why but that made my day. Thank you.

The geese are starting to mass here and in a couple of weeks we'll have tens of thousands of Canada and Snow geese in the air and on the fields.

How many do you want me to send to you?

418 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:15:24pm

re: #403 HappyWarrior

The Teamsters have always been a relatively conservative union. I am not sure if it was the older Hoffa's feud with the Kennedy bros that led to iit or not but Jimmy Sr did support Nixon and it was Nixon that pardoned him. I didn't realize the TP had so many Teamster members. I thought they were a more white collar crowd as a whole.

I'm not sure I believe her--they also claim to have lot of Democrats. But if they do have a lot of Teamsters, I am curious about that.

419 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:15:58pm

re: #418 SanFranciscoZionist

It would seem an odd choice for Teamsters to join a group that loves to bash greedy unions.

420 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:16:14pm

Red Alert: Massive Butthurt Detected

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

421 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:16:14pm

re: #405 jaunte

She's changing the Instapundit story:

Haha, of course only right wing protesters are good hard working Americans while any left wing protester is a no good hippie who can't have a job. Stupid tool Instapundit.

422 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:16:36pm

I'm disappointed. We never got to see the voluminous research supporting "ConservativeMe's" claim that heavily armed neighborhoods are so much safer.

423 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:17:07pm

re: #368 tnguitarist

It's victim time!

About time. I've been trying to be a victim for months.

424 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:17:33pm

re: #419 jaunte

It would seem an odd choice for Teamsters to join a group that loves to bash greedy unions.

Check their history. Teamsters as a group had a pretty low solidarity quotient.

425 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:18:35pm

I must admit, I do marvel at the Right for how quick they can change course. They start out whining about how Hoffa was "advocating" violence, then switched to how his use of "violent rhetoric" was not being called out by the Left, and now it's screeching about how Obama signed off on said rhetoric by still giving his speech after Hoffa.

426 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:19:33pm

re: #418 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not sure I believe her--they also claim to have lot of Democrats. But if they do have a lot of Teamsters, I am curious about that.

Yes, I'v seen that claim before too. It does seem weird for union members to join a movement that is hellbent on badmouthing unions but cognitive dissonance didn't stop the people who wanted the government to take its hands off their medicare. As if that medicare was just there without the government.

427 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:19:44pm

re: #417 b_sharp

The geese are starting to mass here and in a couple of weeks we'll have tens of thousands of Canada and Snow geese in the air and on the fields.

How many do you want me to send to you?

One gross of geese please, only suckers pay retail.

428 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:19:49pm

re: #360 ConservativeMe

S, tht's bd thng? Hw gd thrd wld t hv bn wth - ppl syng "Gddmnd ths bstrds t FX!" thght ths brds wr fr dscssn. Myb nt s mch.
'm rthr mprssd b th nmbr f mnss 'v rckd p fr syng prtt ncntrvrsl thngs n plt w.
h wll.
Gdnght.

Pardon me if I laugh hysterically at that fantasy you posted, even if you have flounced downthread.

/don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

429 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:20:26pm

re: #388 Charles

Your wish is my command.

Censorship!!!1!111one

430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:20:37pm

re: #412 Atlas Fails

.

Only heterosexual Christians are to get special rights. The rest are cursed by God anyway, you can tell because God let us run roughshod over them. So them having any rights is against God, just like desegregation! /con bigot logic

431 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:20:37pm

re: #379 jaunte

@Wolfrum: I can't believe a union leader would call Republicans sons of bitches. How mean. What has the GOP ever said or done to unions?

Pissed in their Corn Flakes.

432 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:21:03pm

re: #429 Atlas Fails

Another name added to the Dishonor Roll. Ho-hum.

433 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:21:16pm

re: #420 JasonA

Red Alert: Massive Butthurt Detected

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Ooh, I've never been to Jimmah and Ice's YT channel before....kinda swanky ;-P

434 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:22:19pm

re: #433 talon_262

Ooh, I've never been to Jimmah and Ice's YT channel before...kinda swanky ;-P

Oh crap, you're not invited...

/

435 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:22:20pm

re: #431 b_sharp

Pissed in their Corn Flakes.

In their defense, it was "job-creating" piss, so we should be applauding the GOP for doing so. Perhaps even expressing awe at how they arced it so perfectly into the center of the bowl.

///

436 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:22:44pm

re: #425 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I must admit, I do marvel at the Right for how quick they can change course. They start out whining about how Hoffa was "advocating" violence, then switched to how his use of "violent rhetoric" was not being called out by the Left, and now it's screeching about how Obama signed off on said rhetoric by still giving his speech after Hoffa.

SEIU union violence gang member ACORN prostitute thugs !!!

Hates the white culture!!!

437 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:22:50pm

re: #432 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Another name added to the Dishonor Roll. Ho-hum.

Youtube Video
438 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:22:53pm

re: #425 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I must admit, I do marvel at the Right for how quick they can change course. They start out whining about how Hoffa was "advocating" violence, then switched to how his use of "violent rhetoric" was not being called out by the Left, and now it's screeching about how Obama signed off on said rhetoric by still giving his speech after Hoffa.

See. Proof of evolution right there.

//

439 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:23:01pm

re: #392 Obdicut

God, life is so fucking hard. You got to derail the conversation onto the topic you wanted but you're unhappy about how the conversation went and by having people argue back with you.

Goddamn emopublicans.

And they whine about liberals being emotional.

440 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:24:46pm

re: #417 b_sharp

The geese are starting to mass here and in a couple of weeks we'll have tens of thousands of Canada and Snow geese in the air and on the fields.

How many do you want me to send to you?

You sound rather honked off at the prospect.

441 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:25:12pm

re: #399 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think Charles is right, we're going to see more dipshits like this. The ones who just happen to "wander in" on topics such as this, then make every effort to turn it into an "But Obama..." derailment. And then, after getting their asses beaten black and blue, whine that all they were trying to do is promote "discourse."

Why do I always miss seeing the black and blue beaten asses?

442 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:26:17pm

re: #441 b_sharp

Why do I always miss seeing the black and blue beaten asses?

Don't ask me, I only got here at the tail-end. Was too busy playing Deus Ex to take part in the pruning of this particular branch of the Tree of Ignorance.

443 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:26:17pm

re: #431 b_sharp

Pissed in their Corn Flakes.

Satire.

444 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:26:37pm

re: #433 talon_262

Cool. Subscribed...

445 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:26:51pm

re: #418 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not sure I believe her--they also claim to have lot of Democrats. But if they do have a lot of Teamsters, I am curious about that.

Not to be ungallant, SFZ, but do you remember the Reagan Democrats?

446 Atlas Fails  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:27:30pm

'Night all. I leave you with the Beatles.

Youtube Video
447 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:28:43pm

re: #439 b_sharp

And they whine about liberals being emotional.

That has been been one of Rush's (and other conservative pundits, as well) axioms for the longest time IIRC, that liberals are governed by and formulate their political positions purely by emotion, while conservatives are governed by logic and reason.

After Obama was elected, I came to realize this was total bullshit, because "conservatives" play on fear more than anyone else that I've seen the past 2-3 years. If anything else, liberals use logic and reason much more than any TPer "conservative" I've seen these past couple of years.

448 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:28:58pm

re: #445 jvic

Not to be ungallant, SFZ, but do you remember the Reagan Democrats?

Who could forget them?

449 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:30:02pm

re: #447 talon_262

After Obama was elected, I came to realize this was total bullshit, because "conservatives" play on fear more than anyone else that I've seen the past 200-300 years/

fify

450 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:30:58pm

re: #440 Dark_Falcon

You sound rather honked off at the prospect.

That remark just got me down.

451 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:32:02pm

jamesfirecat,

Huh?

452 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:32:16pm

re: #447 talon_262

That has been been one of Rush's (and other conservative pundits, as well) axioms for the longest time IIRC, that liberals are governed by and formulate their political positions purely by emotion, while conservatives are governed by logic and reason.

After Obama was elected, I came to realize this was total bullshit, because "conservatives" play on fear more than anyone else that I've seen the past 2-3 years/

That one amuses me because they say that and then they act like just what they say liberals are. I personally don't feel any side ideologically is more prone to logic/reason or emotional or whatever since we're people after all and everyone's different in their own ways. Plus if one was an "emotional liberal" who became a conservative, would that mean that they suddenly lost their emotions and suddenly became rational and logic filled. A big political pet peeve of mind is and I hate it when both sides do it and to a lot of the credit of people here, left and right, I don't see it but I hate people saying the other ideology is a mental illness. You see it a ton on hyperpartsian blogs.

453 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:34:07pm

re: #449 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

fify

There have been exceptions; among them, William F. Buckley. Sure, he had his warts, but he seemed much more logical and reasoned on many things than anybody on the right has been since he died (and before that). The man who more or less made it clear to the Birchers that the GOP didn't want or need them back in the 60s has been repudiated by the all-new and improved, Bircher-infused TFGOP.

If you were to connect a couple of wires to his rapidly-rotating casket, I'm sure you'd never have to worry about an electric bill for the rest of your life....

454 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:34:22pm

re: #446 Atlas Fails

'Night all. I leave you with the Beatles.

[Video]

BUG MUSIC!!1!

455 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:34:38pm

re: #432 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Another name added to the Dishonor Roll. Ho-hum.

He shall remember his 24 hours here for the rest of his life. He will seek to avenge his banning until he is old and gray! He will tell his grandchildren of this injustice!

But mostly he'll sit alone in the basement reading our comments for the next 12 years.

//

456 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:35:38pm

Radar on.

457 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:36:07pm

re: #450 makeitstop

That remark just got me down.

Sorry. Chicagoland is in a major flyway, so it sees many thousands of Canadian Geese pass stop by during their migration of the spring and fall. So I have a small number of 'honk' jokes to make light of the sometimes troublesome geese.

458 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:37:02pm

re: #447 talon_262

That has been been one of Rush's (and other conservative pundits, as well) axioms for the longest time IIRC, that liberals are governed by and formulate their political positions purely by emotion, while conservatives are governed by logic and reason.

After Obama was elected, I came to realize this was total bullshit, because "conservatives" play on fear more than anyone else that I've seen the past 2-3 years. If anything else, liberals use logic and reason much more than any TPer "conservative" I've seen these past couple of years.

I believe most scientists are liberal in attitude, yet they have to have a decent grasp of logic to be successful at their jobs. I think this alone refutes the idea liberals are necessarily emotion based.

459 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:37:25pm

re: #451 jvic

jamesfirecat,

Huh?

Which posted of mind caused the "Huh?"

460 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:38:52pm

re: #455 Gus 802

He shall remember his 24 hours here for the rest of his life. He will seek to avenge his banning until he is old and gray! He will tell his grandchildren of this injustice!

But mostly he'll sit alone in the basement reading our comments for the next 12 years.

//

But first he will dance the final step of the Butthurt Fandango by going over to the Stalker's "Diary of Daedalus Dorkus" and whining about how he was cruelly mistreated by the "evil tricksey lizards".

461 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:39:00pm

re: #179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I totally fell for it.

Checked the quote in five places before I talked about it. Every place I checked had the exact same quote. With the removed part removed.

Shit.

Why are the media sources promoting an edited video of a union official? I wonder.

462 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:39:04pm

re: #458 b_sharp

I believe most scientists are liberal in attitude, yet they have to have a decent grasp of logic to be successful at their jobs. I think this alone refutes the idea liberals are necessarily emotion based.

Scientists are both conservative and liberal, in the actual meanings of the words. In America, 'conservative' means something entirely unconservative, and indeed, radical. The American Conservative subscribes to a faith that has only one tenet; hating 'liberals'.

463 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:39:11pm

re: #453 talon_262

err, TPGOP...damn edit window expired.

464 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:41:23pm

Hey all,

I was growing-up in Detroit when Hoffa 1 went missing.

Nasty business.

How is everyone?

465 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:42:06pm

re: #462 Renaissance_Man

Scientists are both conservative and liberal, in the actual meanings of the words. In America, 'conservative' means something entirely unconservative, and indeed, radical. The American Conservative subscribes to a faith that has only one tenet; hating 'liberals'.

That is true for some people who call themselves conservative, but not all of us.

466 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:42:29pm

re: #464 ggt

Hey all,

I was growing-up in Detroit when Hoffa 1 went missing.

Nasty business.

How is everyone?

Well, my knees are knackered.

467 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:42:49pm

re: #457 Dark_Falcon

Sorry. Chicagoland is in a major flyway, so it sees many thousands of Canadian Geese pass stop by during their migration of the spring and fall. So I have a small number of 'honk' jokes to make light of the sometimes troublesome geese.

No... it got me down.

Goose pun, dude! :)

468 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:43:02pm

As if business has no shady characters. Must make all businessmen scum right?

469 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:43:06pm

Damn the torpedoes trolling full speed flounce ahead!

470 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:43:21pm

re: #465 Dark_Falcon

That is true for some people who call themselves conservative, but not all of us.

Just all the people who get run for office past the primary

(Half sarcasm)

471 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:43:43pm

re: #464 ggt

Hey all,

I was growing-up in Detroit when Hoffa 1 went missing.

Nasty business.

How is everyone?

Feeling my eyeballs cry out for mercy after hours of playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Man, the future is so dark and depressing...

472 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:44:11pm

re: #471 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Feeling my eyeballs cry out for mercy after hours of playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Man, the future is so dark and depressing...

Ha ha I'm playing that too.

473 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:44:28pm

re: #470 jamesfirecat

Just all the people who get run for office past the primary

(Half sarcasm)

...much less the people who vote them in...

474 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:45:00pm

re: #466 b_sharp

Well, my knees are knackered.

Do I want to know why?

475 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:45:08pm

re: #464 ggt

Hey all,

I was growing-up in Detroit when Hoffa 1 went missing.

Nasty business.

How is everyone?

I'm OK.

Perhaps we could settle the younger Hoffa down a bit by promising to have Congress fund scanning the roads of the Detroit area with ground-penetrating radar.

/Probably not cool, but not intended to be hurtful. I really would like to know what happened to the elder Hoffa.

476 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:45:34pm

After all the "Bring it On" TP rhetoric. What a bunch of cry babies.


Victims. That's what they are. Poor wittle babies. Mommy, one of those mean democrats fought back! Whaaaa!

477 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:45:43pm

re: #459 jamesfirecat

Which posted of mind caused the "Huh?"

The downding here, where I noted that since there were Reagan Democrats back in the day, it is not ridiculous to find some Ds (Teamsters, ditto) in the Tea Party. Would you explain, please?

478 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:45:44pm

re: #452 HappyWarrior

That one amuses me because they say that and then they act like just what they say liberals are. I personally don't feel any side ideologically is more prone to logic/reason or emotional or whatever since we're people after all and everyone's different in their own ways. Plus if one was an "emotional liberal" who became a conservative, would that mean that they suddenly lost their emotions and suddenly became rational and logic filled. A big political pet peeve of mind is and I hate it when both sides do it and to a lot of the credit of people here, left and right, I don't see it but I hate people saying the other ideology is a mental illness. You see it a ton on hyperpartsian blogs.

There have been a couple of people here, rather recently IIRC, that have made comments like that; I certainly don't agree, but the way the TPers have steamrolled the GOP to make them their bitches certainly doesn't bode well for the American body politic.

Only thing I can say is that you don't necessarily have to like the "other side" or their political positions, but try to be as civil as possible.

479 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:45:50pm

re: #470 jamesfirecat

Just all the people who get to run for office past the primary

(Half sarcasm)

PIYF

480 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:46:01pm

re: #467 makeitstop

No... it got me down.

Goose pun, dude! :)

We have plenty for whom Chicagoland is their Southern Destination.

There is even a Goose Poop Pick-up industry here.

481 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:46:18pm

re: #467 makeitstop

No... it got me down.

Goose pun, dude! :)

Cool.

482 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:46:27pm

re: #472 Amory Blaine

Ha ha I'm playing that too.

I don't play Deux Ex:Human, I live it.

Um, what is Deux Ex:Human?

483 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:46:53pm

re: #472 Amory Blaine

Ha ha I'm playing that too.

I had to go back and basically start from scratch earlier. May have to do so again, just to change a few upgrades to make playing easier. Stealth play is great...except when you build your character in all the wrong ways.

484 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:47:05pm

re: #477 jvic

The downding here, where I noted that since there were Reagan Democrats back in the day, it is not ridiculous to find some Ds (Teamsters, ditto) in the Tea Party. Would you explain, please?

No idea must have misscliciked, its late at night...

485 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:47:14pm

re: #474 ggt

Do I want to know why?

Obligatory Monty Python reference.

486 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:47:24pm

re: #475 Dark_Falcon

I'm OK.

Perhaps we could settle the younger Hoffa down a bit by promising to have Congress fund scanning the roads of the Detroit area with ground-penetrating radar.

/Probably not cool, but not intended to be hurtful. I really would like to know what happened to the elder Hoffa.

I know Giants Stadium has been gone over many times, but it wouldn't surprise me if he wound up somewhere in the Meadowlands.

487 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:48:05pm

re: #480 ggt

We have plenty for whom Chicagoland is their Southern Destination.

There is even a Goose Poop Pick-up industry here.

And both Chicago area zoos have a number of resident geese that stay here all year long. Those geese can be trouble, since they aren't afraid of people.

488 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:48:36pm

I think I heard Scorsese and DeNiro are teaming up again to make a movie about Hoffa based off of I Heard You Paint Houses. I nearly picked up the book when I was at the bookstore the other day. Picked up This Side of Paradise instead because I've been wanting to read more fiction and to my shame, I've never read Fitz.

489 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:48:40pm

re: #483 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I had to go back and basically start from scratch earlier. May have to do so again, just to change a few upgrades to make playing easier. Stealth play is great...except when you build your character in all the wrong ways.

I have awesome legs, a cranium bursting with knowledge and some super scrawny arms.

Plus I run around with about 7 bullets in all my guns.

:)

490 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:49:13pm

re: #475 Dark_Falcon

I'm OK.

Perhaps we could settle the younger Hoffa down a bit by promising to have Congress fund scanning the roads of the Detroit area with ground-penetrating radar.

/Probably not cool, but not intended to be hurtful. I really would like to know what happened to the elder Hoffa.

Detroit is in bad shape.

I've heard a couple of scenerios about what happened to Hoffa 1. Most often, hear he was "put thru a shredder" of some sort. None of the rumors are pleasant.

I think it is pretty certain he was murdered and we'll probably never know exactly why or what the disposition of the body was. As much as I don't understand Teamster politics or know anything about Hoffa 2, I can't help but feel for him. Losing a father under those circumstances--being all over the news and the major gossip of the Detroit area for months/years.

Had to be horrible.

491 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:49:44pm

re: #489 Amory Blaine

I have awesome legs, a cranium bursting with knowledge and some super scrawny arms.

Plus I run around with about 7 bullets in all my guns.

:)

Yeah, I've gotta break myself of the bad habit I picked up in Fallout 3, namely grabbing everything laying on the ground. Though, part of the reason for that is fear that if I drop something, it'll disappear and I'll never see it again.

492 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:50:26pm

re: #453 talon_262

There have been exceptions; among them, William F. Buckley. Sure, he had his warts, but he seemed much more logical and reasoned on many things than anybody on the right has been since he died (and before that). The man who more or less made it clear to the Birchers that the GOP didn't want or need them back in the 60s has been repudiated by the all-new and improved, Bircher-infused TFGOP.

If you were to connect a couple of wires to his rapidly-rotating casket, I'm sure you'd never have to worry about an electric bill for the rest of your life...

Eh, plenty of them are fine. Too conformist, though, to actually have any impact on the ones who do harm. Like everything else, they'll give Fox a pass in hopes of reaping some kind of unearned benefits.

493 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:51:21pm

re: #490 ggt

Detroit is in bad shape.

I've heard a couple of scenerios about what happened to Hoffa 1. Most often, hear he was "put thru a shredder" of some sort. None of the rumors are pleasant.

I think it is pretty certain he was murdered and we'll probably never know exactly why or what the disposition of the body was. As much as I don't understand Teamster politics or know anything about Hoffa 2, I can't help but feel for him. Losing a father under those circumstances--being all over the news and the major gossip of the Detroit area for months/years.

Had to be horrible.

Concur. It has to be Hell on a person to not know what happened to your father.

494 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:51:44pm

re: #484 jamesfirecat

No idea must have misscliciked, its late at night...

It happens.

495 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:51:50pm

bbiab

496 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:51:51pm

'Night.

497 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:52:28pm

Anyway in other, happier news, in eight minuets or so the first new daily show in two weeks will be on!

498 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:53:07pm

re: #485 b_sharp

Obligatory Monty Python reference.

ah!

499 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:53:23pm

re: #497 jamesfirecat

Anyway in other, happier news, in eight minuets or so the first new daily show in two weeks will be on!

Starts tonight?

500 jvic  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:55:07pm

re: #497 jamesfirecat

Anyway in other, happier news, in eight minuets or so the first new daily show in two weeks will be on!

Who composed the minuets? ;-)

501 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:55:24pm

re: #465 Dark_Falcon

That is true for some people who call themselves conservative, but not all of us.

In all honesty, I am willing to take you at your word. I just have a hard time seeing how American conservatives, in the true sense of the word, become willing to support things that are unconservative and radical, simply because they think that's on their 'team'.

Do American conservatives support fiscal responsibility and strong economies? I'm sure they do. So why do they end up supporting an economic ideology that has done the opposite for at least thirty years?

Do American conservatives support strong foreign policy? No doubt. So why do they end up supporting an ideology that continues to make America beholden to oil powers, while simultaneously reducing its competitiveness in global markets?

Do American conservatives support minimising government waste? Yes, again, obviously. Yet they continually seem to end up supporting an ideology that hobbles government ability to control costs, and instead directly transfers money from public coffers to the very wealthy.

Why do they support an ideology that does the opposite of what they want? The only reason I see is that the same ideology opposes those guys, those Democrats, those liberals. Not to say that Democrats do things that conservatives should support, necessarily. Frankly, the uber-parties span far too much of the spectrum of political ideology for anyone to agree entirely with them. Yet the Republican party continues to contract in ideology, and yet more and more people seem to agree with them entirely.

502 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:56:29pm

Even if Hoffa did preface his "take them out" words with a phrase about voting, he is still reprehensible in his language, if you ask me, because among the many who heard him — it was broadcast let's not forget — there will be those whose heads will retain the "take them out" and S-O-B, part, and not the other. A prudent, wise and caring man would not have spoken so.

503 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:57:07pm

Speaking of the elder Hoffa, did anyone see the Nicholson bioepic? I was a little disappointed but I must confess to knowing little about Hoffa.

504 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:58:48pm

re: #499 Amory Blaine

Starts tonight?

Did a little checking and saddly it looks like its going to be tommorow night actually.

505 Amory Blaine  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 7:59:26pm

Anti union people pull out Hoffa all the time because it's all they have. Blah blah blah about some union guy 50 years ago. That makes teachers "union thugs" and reason unions should be abolished.

506 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:01:43pm

re: #505 Amory Blaine

Anti union people pull out Hoffa all the time because it's all they have. Blah blah blah about some union guy 50 years ago. That makes teachers "union thugs" and reason unions should be abolished.

Yeah it's ridiculous. I mean you don't see me going around advocating the abolishing of corporations because of corporate crooks. But somehow "some unions are corrupt, thus they're all corrupt, let's outlaw them" is a common mileage.

507 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:01:47pm

re: #502 Ojoe

Even if Hoffa did preface his "take them out" words with a phrase about voting, he is still reprehensible in his language, if you ask me, because among the many who heard him — it was broadcast let's not forget — there will be those whose heads will retain the "take them out" and S-O-B, part, and not the other. A prudent, wise and caring man would not have spoken so.

And you have missed the whole point of this thread....the fact is that Fox spun Hoffa's speech as a call to violence, when in the ABC News video, it's clear he was talking about getting out the vote. The "sons of bitches" line was brusque and harsh, but not to be unexpected from a Hoffa, even at a public event with the president; to focus on that one line, rather than what Fox is trying to do with their selective editing is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.

508 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:02:09pm

re: #502 Ojoe

Even if Hoffa did preface his "take them out" words with a phrase about voting, he is still reprehensible in his language, if you ask me, because among the many who heard him — it was broadcast let's not forget — there will be those whose heads will retain the "take them out" and S-O-B, part, and not the other. A prudent, wise and caring man would not have spoken so.

That's why I said his words were intemperate, and they could certainly be called politically belligerent. But not violent. It was a dishonest edit worthy of Andrew Breitbart.

509 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:08:04pm

Image: 94kHq.jpg

510 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:09:05pm

re: #502 Ojoe

A prudent, wise and caring man would not have spoken so.

Yes, but we're talking about the TEAMSTERS.

/

511 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:09:42pm

DF 508

What you say is true.

But the problem is that there are plenty of people who will edit remarks like Hoffa's in their own minds, with no help from Fox.

It is no use talking like that if you want to maintain civilization.

512 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:12:06pm

re: #511 Ojoe

But the problem is that there are plenty of people who will edit remarks like Hoffa's in their own minds, with no help from Fox.

Pfft, there are plenty of people who would label him a violent seiu union gang member thug, even if he were to recite Mother Goose.

513 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:12:09pm

Buona notte a tutti.

514 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:13:00pm

re: #513 Ojoe

Buona notte a tutti.

My father is the family's Latin expert. Translation, please.

515 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:13:16pm

re: #511 Ojoe

DF 508

What you say is true.

But the problem is that there are plenty of people who will edit remarks like Hoffa's in their own minds, with no help from Fox.

It is no use talking like that if you want to maintain civilization.

I have to agree, he wasn't talking to a select group of buddies in a closed room. He was making a public speech and SHOULD have been cognizant of how he could be misquoted. Not a smart thing to say.

516 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:13:41pm

re: #511 Ojoe

It is no use talking like that if you want to maintain civilization.

lmao, stop the world, Jimmy Hoffa Jr uttered the words "take these sons of bitches out."

e_e

517 What, me worry?  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:13:49pm

Oh yeesh, "take those sonsofbitches out" is a line from Independence Day. He was just being pop-culturish to make a point.

518 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:13:57pm

re: #502 Ojoe

Even if Hoffa did preface his "take them out" words with a phrase about voting, he is still reprehensible in his language, if you ask me, because among the many who heard him — it was broadcast let's not forget — there will be those whose heads will retain the "take them out" and S-O-B, part, and not the other. A prudent, wise and caring man would not have spoken so.

A prudent, wise, and caring man wouldn't get far in the shoes that Hoffa Jr. has had to fill. Especially not a time when unions are under constant attack from without (politicians) and within (business owners). And certainly not during an election year, when the biggest priority is energizing voters and compelling them to get out there and vote.

As for the concern that his speech might be "edited" in the minds of some as a call to violence, I fear more that there will be those who oppose Mr. Hoffa and everything he stands for seeing the edited version of his speech and seeing that as a reason to visit violence upon union members.

519 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:14:29pm

re: #514 Dark_Falcon

My father is the family's Latin expert. Translation, please.

Good night to all (HT: Google Translate).

520 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:15:00pm

Image: 7E5B435A725D57.jpg

awwwww

521 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:15:45pm

re: #519 talon_262

Good night to all (HT: Google Translate).

My google translation is better (#520)

:)

522 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:16:24pm

re: #518 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As for the concern that his speech might be "edited" in the minds of some as a call to violence, I fear more that there will be those who oppose Mr. Hoffa and everything he stands for seeing the edited version of his speech and seeing that as a reason to visit violence upon union members.

Taxed enough already!!! God fking DAMMIT those fking school librarians and their union seiu thug gang member pensions are breaking my back!!

Where is my fking HEMP ROPE!!!! TEEEAAAAA

523 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:17:43pm

Romans were everywhere!

Austria.

524 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:22:37pm

re: #518 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A prudent, wise, and caring man wouldn't get far in the shoes that Hoffa Jr. has had to fill. Especially not a time when unions are under constant attack from without (politicians) and within (business owners). And certainly not during an election year, when the biggest priority is energizing voters and compelling them to get out there and vote.

As for the concern that his speech might be "edited" in the minds of some as a call to violence, I fear more that there will be those who oppose Mr. Hoffa and everything he stands for seeing the edited version of his speech and seeing that as a reason to visit violence upon union members.

Unlikely they'd mess with the Teamsters. While the image of the Teamsters as thugs is massively overblown, they are no softies. Many of them own guns and would not hesitate to use them. And James P. Hoffa strike me as the sort of man who would be quite willing to defend himself if he had to.

If any union is attacked physically, it would not be the Teamsters. The kind of predatory assholes who launch such attacks target the weak, not the strong.

525 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:25:21pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

The Teamster's reputation is such that all a member has to do is identify oneself as a "Teamster" and most opponents would back-down.

Unless they were drunk.

526 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:28:46pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

Unlikely they'd mess with the Teamsters. While the image of the Teamsters as thugs is massively overblown, they are no softies. Many of them own guns and would not hesitate to use them. And James P. Hoffa strike me as the sort of man who would be quite willing to defend himself if he had to.

If any union is attacked physically, it would not be the Teamsters. The kind of predatory assholes who launch such attacks target the weak, not the strong.

Like big ag did the United Farmworkers in the 60s-70s.

Conservaraptors.

527 Tsuga  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:36:18pm

There needs to be a new slogan, repeated over and over ad nauseam: "You just can't trust Fox news".

528 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:36:25pm

re: #46 JEA62

Perhaps we should take a moment, use a little imagination, and imagine Limbaugh, Hannity, Bryan Fischer or Bachmann saying "let's take these son of a bitches out."

Yes, please do. Then imagine all the strapped-up, unhinged, seething conservatives that would go drive to some wild, wicked city, to do just that.

Give me a g.d. break.

529 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:36:51pm

Well thank goodness Jimmy Hoffa has now justified every over the top remark to come out of every tea party mouth for the last four years...

530 laZardo  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:37:41pm

Evening folks. Anything here that won't convince me we're all going to (metaphorical) hell in a handbasket?

531 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:38:29pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

If any union is attacked physically, it would not be the Teamsters. The kind of predatory assholes who launch such attacks target the weak, not the strong.

Which is why you'll see a group like the SEIU targeted by the wingnuts instead of the Teamsters. Even the idiot teabaggers know better than to tangle with Teamsters. Most of them, anyway.

532 Gus  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:38:53pm

THE LIBERAL AGENDA

Youtube Video
533 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:39:49pm

re: #529 JasonA

Well thank goodness Jimmy Hoffa has now justified every over the top remark to come out of every tea party mouth for the last four years...

They will take ANYTHING said and make it into a justification for violence.

Where were they when their own politicians were threatening journalists with baseball bats and tossing out others with active military "security". (Answer: defending it, and cowering like bedwetting babies, as always. )

534 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:40:14pm

re: #529 JasonA

As if it took Hoffa for that.

Any and all liberal pushback justifies what the Teabaggers have been saying, at least in the right wing hive mind.

535 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:44:28pm

Image: D0U7d.jpg
Namaste, y'all

536 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:45:42pm

re: #535 Killgore Trout

Image: D0U7d.jpg
Namaste, y'all

That's a stylin' lizard.

537 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:46:08pm

Say what you want about his speech, but Hoffa isn't backing down at all:

Teamsters President: ‘No Regrets’ After Fiery Speech Draws Right-Wing Criticism

538 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:47:28pm

re: #537 Lidane

Say what you want about his speech, but Hoffa isn't backing down at all:

Teamsters President: ‘No Regrets’ After Fiery Speech Draws Right-Wing Criticism

More power to him. I see no reason why he should and doing so will simply embolden his critics. Better to tell them where to shove their "outrage."

539 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:47:57pm

re: #537 Lidane

Say what you want about his speech, but Hoffa isn't backing down at all:

Teamsters President: ‘No Regrets’ After Fiery Speech Draws Right-Wing Criticism

He's got the country's attention. He should do a lot of TV this week and make his case.

540 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:48:46pm

re: #538 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

More power to him. I see no reason why he should and doing so will simply embolden his critics. Better to tell them where to shove their "outrage."

Damn Unoin Thugz!

541 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:53:12pm

In case you haven't noticed, I've been a little upset over the mentally ill incarceration level lately.

Privatizing Prisons certainly isn't going to help--unless they are specifically Mental Hospital Prisons with a concentration on treatment and probation.

Help me out here, was this addressed in the ObamaCare debacle?

542 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:53:34pm

re: #535 Killgore Trout

Image: D0U7d.jpg
Namaste, y'all

That loozard is turning RED!1 That proves that CHUCKLES JOHNSON IS A COMMIE!!!11

543 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:55:42pm

re: #537 Lidane

Teamsters President: ‘No Regrets’ After Fiery Speech Draws Right-Wing Criticism

Srsly. Why should he.

Not one of them backed down after the leftwing criticism of their violence, all they had was bullshit about reloading, I'm such a victim of bullying because I got disagreed with on the internet once, and Maxine Waters told me to go to hell, boo hoo.

544 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:56:44pm

re: #541 ggt

In case you haven't noticed, I've been a little upset over the mentally ill incarceration level lately.

Privatizing Prisons certainly isn't going to help--unless they are specifically Mental Hospital Prisons with a concentration on treatment and probation.

Help me out here, was this addressed in the ObamaCare debacle?

I'm more excited about your gladiator school page:

"We who are about to blog salute you!" [smiles]

545 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:58:28pm

Major dopiness on twitter @Hoffa

DLoesch Dana Loesch
Hurry kittens! Scramble! What next? "RW edits Hoffa again talking to TPM confirming that he said it." LOLOL
1 hour ago

AndrewBreitbart
AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
Welcome to @mmfa's bad hair day. Hoffa walks back Media Matters hopeless taken out of context gambit. @ericboehlert

546 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:58:47pm

re: #541 ggt

In case you haven't noticed, I've been a little upset over the mentally ill incarceration level lately.

Privatizing Prisons certainly isn't going to help--unless they are specifically Mental Hospital Prisons with a concentration on treatment and probation.

Help me out here, was this addressed in the ObamaCare debacle?

I guess the answer is NO.

547 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 8:58:54pm

re: #540 JasonA

Folks these days have so little understanding of what "union thugs" did for this nation. It was "union thugs" who fought for safety regulations, fought for the weekend, fought for the 40hr work week, and so many other things we now take for granted. The holiday we just got done celebrating, Labor Day, became a federal holiday because so many "union thugs" were killed by soldiers at the end of the Pullman Strike. "Union thugs" helped create the basis of the middle class that so many aspire to these days.

And it's that lack of understanding, that belief in the violent "union thug" who's looking to muscle business into "unfair" wages and benefits, that is allowing the middle class to shrink and everything those "thugs" fought for be dismantled by the same businesses whose unfair practices gave rise to unions in the first place.

548 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:00:07pm

re: #392 Obdicut

God, life is so fucking hard. You got to derail the conversation onto the topic you wanted but you're unhappy about how the conversation went and by having people argue back with you.

Goddamn emopublicans.

Emopublicans?
ROFLCOPTER.

549 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:00:15pm

re: #547 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Folks these days have so little understanding of what "union thugs" did for this nation. It was "union thugs" who fought for safety regulations, fought for the weekend, fought for the 40hr work week, and so many other things we now take for granted. The holiday we just got done celebrating, Labor Day, became a federal holiday because so many "union thugs" were killed by soldiers at the end of the Pullman Strike. "Union thugs" helped create the basis of the middle class that so many aspire to these days.

And it's that lack of understanding, that belief in the violent "union thug" who's looking to muscle business into "unfair" wages and benefits, that is allowing the middle class to shrink and everything those "thugs" fought for be dismantled by the same businesses whose unfair practices gave rise to unions in the first place.

the rwnj take is that we have federal labor laws, OSHA etc now. Why do we need Unions?

550 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:00:26pm

re: #545 jaunte

Major dopiness on twitter @Hoffa

I do hope Andrew Breitbart is proud that Fox News has proven such an apt pupil of his.

/spits

551 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:00:44pm

re: #547 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Folks these days have so little understanding of what "union thugs" did for this nation. It was "union thugs" who fought for safety regulations, fought for the weekend, fought for the 40hr work week, and so many other things we now take for granted. The holiday we just got done celebrating, Labor Day, became a federal holiday because so many "union thugs" were killed by soldiers at the end of the Pullman Strike. "Union thugs" helped create the basis of the middle class that so many aspire to these days.

And it's that lack of understanding, that belief in the violent "union thug" who's looking to muscle business into "unfair" wages and benefits, that is allowing the middle class to shrink and everything those "thugs" fought for be dismantled by the same businesses whose unfair practices gave rise to unions in the first place.

The thing that upsets me is many of them are all too willing to point at "union thugs" and totally ignore the corporate thuggery that led to the formation of unions in the first place. Homestead anyone? and I can think of many more. I just know Homestead well since my family's Western Pa bred.

552 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:01:56pm

re: #548 Varek Raith

Emopublicans?
ROFLCOPTER.

Emocrats. dEMOcrats.
Hmm, doesn't have the same sting.
Any suggestions?
:)

553 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:02:30pm

It's so damn obvious I don't know why the more intelligent among us haven't said it yet...

... Hoffa is a Tea Party plant sent to discredit labor unions and democrats. Likely trained by Breitbart.
///

554 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:02:41pm

re: #547 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Folks these days have so little understanding of what "union thugs" did for this nation. It was "union thugs" who fought for safety regulations, fought for the weekend, fought for the 40hr work week, and so many other things we now take for granted. The holiday we just got done celebrating, Labor Day, became a federal holiday because so many "union thugs" were killed by soldiers at the end of the Pullman Strike. "Union thugs" helped create the basis of the middle class that so many aspire to these days.

And it's that lack of understanding, that belief in the violent "union thug" who's looking to muscle business into "unfair" wages and benefits, that is allowing the middle class to shrink and everything those "thugs" fought for be dismantled by the same businesses whose unfair practices gave rise to unions in the first place.

Not to mention all the UNION THUGS of my father's generation who today can afford assisted living and the medication they need thanks to their PUBLIC TROUGH PIG OVERREACH COMMUNIST PENSIONS.

Dumb confederates...what are they good for.

555 jamesfirecat  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:03:18pm

re: #552 Varek Raith

Emocrats. dEMOcrats.
Hmm, doesn't have the same sting.
Any suggestions?
:)

Of course it doesn't, we're already emo by defualt, why do you think our political symbol is a donkey?

556 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:03:26pm

re: #544 Dark_Falcon

I'm more excited about your gladiator school page:

"We who are about to blog salute you!" [smiles]

I know, it's a subject no one wants to think about, much less take action.

Personally, I think it relates to my Planned Parenthood rants. Simply because if every child is wanted, and every parents wants a child, the child get's better care, is less likely to develope serious mental illness and end-up in the justice system.

But the Michelle Bachmann's of Mars Where Everything Is Perfect don't seem to see the connection.

IN Dollars and Sense --we spend dollars to pick-up pennies when we don't spend money on mental health treatment. Prevention, as usual, seems to costly for the voters to handle.

557 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:04:12pm

re: #541 ggt

In case you haven't noticed, I've been a little upset over the mentally ill incarceration level lately.

Privatizing Prisons certainly isn't going to help--unless they are specifically Mental Hospital Prisons with a concentration on treatment and probation.

Help me out here, was this addressed in the ObamaCare debacle?

ObamaCare debacle?

Is anyone else responsible for anything? Have the republicans ever done anything for mental health or prison issues?

558 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:05:58pm

re: #557 blueraven

ObamaCare debacle?

Is anyone else responsible for anything? Have the republicans ever done anything for mental health or prison issues?

Oh geez, Health Care Reform Debacle.

Is that better.

559 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:06:33pm

re: #558 ggt

Oh geez, Health Care Reform Debacle.

Is that better.

Not much.

560 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:06:48pm

re: #557 blueraven

Have the republicans ever done anything for mental health

No.

or prison issues?

Prison guard's union - the union thugs cons luvvv. /

561 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:07:20pm

re: #558 ggt

You should have said "ObamneyCare".
/;)

562 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:08:56pm

re: #549 ggt

the rwnj take is that we have federal labor laws, OSHA etc now. Why do we need Unions?

Of course, the interesting question is, why should there not be unions? The answers to that usually seem to turn into weirdly commie (for who they're coming from) responses about how it's immoral to drive too hard or profitable a bargain in business.

563 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:09:14pm

re: #549 ggt

the rwnj take is that we have federal labor laws, OSHA etc now. Why do we need Unions?

Are those laws written into the Constitution? No? Then what prevents them from being done away with? We've already had Republicans at the state level propose "modifying" child labor laws. We've got a GOP presidential nominee who believes those laws, as well as many others that unions fought for are "unconstitutional." And we've got another who proposes that we do away with minimum wage laws.

564 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:10:46pm

Massey Energy.
What happens when corps ignore union's concerns about safety.

565 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:11:06pm

re: #562 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course, the interesting question is, why should there not be unions? The answers to that usually seem to turn into weirdly commie (for who they're coming from) responses about how it's immoral to drive too hard or profitable a bargain in business.

I look at the right to organize as part of the freedom of assembly personally.That said, there were guilds in the founding fathers age and it wouldn't shock me if at least one of the founders was a member of one.

566 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:12:50pm

re: #564 Varek Raith

Massey Energy.
What happens when corps ignore union's concerns about safety.

Also, iirc, the fines were cheaper to pay than to initiate all the proper safety protocols/features.

567 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:13:15pm

re: #554 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Not to mention all the UNION THUGS of my father's generation who today can afford assisted living and the medication they need thanks to their PUBLIC TROUGH PIG OVERREACH COMMUNIST PENSIONS.

Dumb confederates...what are they good for.

Well, those pensions did end up being grossly inflated by public sector unions in the end. While they started off as a good thing, the unions in question focused only on "getting more" and the results have been disastrous. The former home of Mare Island, Vallejo CA, had to declare bankruptcy to get out of its impossible pension and retirement obligations. So don't go acting like the public sector unions are innocent, because they sure as Hell aren't.

568 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:13:37pm

re: #564 Varek Raith

Massey Energy.
What happens when corps ignore union's concerns about safety.

Yep. What happened with Massey is a textbook example of why unions exist in the first place. They repeatedly ignored or flaunted safety regulations, knowingly putting their employees in unsafe conditions, and then cared little when the inevitable happened and lives were lost.

569 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:13:45pm

re: #565 HappyWarrior

I look at the right to organize as part of the freedom of assembly personally.That said, there were guilds in the founding fathers age and it wouldn't shock me if at least one of the founders was a member of one.

Frankly, I think tradesmen need guilds or *something". How else do you keep up on developments in your trade, set standards, recognize experts and pay attention to politics that might affect it--when you usually work as an independent contractor?

570 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:14:09pm

The best thing the unions have done in my eyes is fight for safe work places. It was too common when my great grandfathers worked the mines that a man would die on the job. I am still in awe of my one great grandfather. Just amazing what he was able to do.

571 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:14:53pm

IMHO, the problem with Unions is the same problem as with Corporations or Congress:

Humans are involved.

572 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:15:40pm

re: #564 Varek Raith

Massey Energy.
What happens when corps ignore union's concerns about safety.

Yet, how many conservatives lapsed into blaming UNION THUG GANG MEMBERS for the accident.

573 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:16:47pm

re: #567 Dark_Falcon

Well, those pensions did end up being grossly inflated by public sector unions in the end. While they started off as a good thing, the unions in question focused only on "getting more" and the results have been disastrous. The former home of Mare Island, Vallejo CA, had to declare bankruptcy to get out of its impossible pension and retirement obligations. So don't go acting like the public sector unions are innocent, because they sure as Hell aren't.

Is there anything original in what you just said, or was that scraped off the top of CATO?

Public sector unions break no one's back so just pipe down.

574 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:18:26pm

re: #568 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yep. What happened with Massey is a textbook example of why unions exist in the first place. They repeatedly ignored or flaunted safety regulations, knowingly putting their employees in unsafe conditions, and then cared little when the inevitable happened and lives were lost.

Blankenship man what an asshole that man is. A throwback to the worst excesses of the gilded age. Also on the subject of pensions, Bethhelem Steel I am pretty sure got rid of their employees pension program in the early 2000's. I had a great uncle that worked there. He was a WWII vet and very sickly towards the end of his life. He had already passed on when they did that but I am sure there were many men like him out there who got the short end of the stick. I mean you work somewhere your whole life, they promise you a pension, and then they cut it? I must admit to being biased in favor of unions due to my own family's experiences but I think those who hate on unions often miss the big picture about what unionization is all about in the first place.

575 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:21:18pm

re: #574 HappyWarrior

I mean you work somewhere your whole life, they promise you a pension, and then they cut it?

That's exactly what these confederates want for people like my father.

Classic ripoff artisty, in the form of bait-and-switch, oldest trick at the carnival.

If they don't get it, they squeal oppression, as if they are the only people in the world who pay taxes. 9_9

576 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:21:49pm

Working at a used book store freaking rocks.
I got every Tom Clancy novel for less than two bucks. Most were in the free bin.

577 simoom  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:23:23pm

Off to bed, 'night all. I'll leave some music:

Youtube Video
578 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:23:28pm

re: #575 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's exactly what these confederates want for people like my father.

If they don't get it, they squeal oppression, as if they are the only people in the world who pay taxes. 9_9

Yep, they act like only they pay taxes and then when other people tell them their ideas will screw up a lot of people's lives, they say they're being oppressed. It's nonsense. Sorry about your Dad. Really, it's awful that companies pull stunts like that.

579 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:24:01pm

re: #573 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Public sector unions break no one's back so just pipe down.

Or don't. Opinions are like assholes... We're all entitled to use our own as we see fit.

580 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:24:30pm

re: #579 Slumbering Behemoth

Or don't. Opinions are like assholes... We're all entitled to use our own as we see fit.

That, we are. Sentence stays.

581 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:25:08pm

Downtown Austin earlier this evening, Bastrop fires in background:
Image: 308112_10150299612344693_815359692_7601623_2642075_n.jpg

582 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:25:22pm

re: #581 jaunte

Downtown Austin earlier this evening, Bastrop fires in background:
Image: 308112_10150299612344693_815359692_7601623_2642075 _n.jpg

Whoa.

583 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:25:54pm

re: #579 Slumbering Behemoth

Or don't. Opinions are like assholes... We're all entitled to use our own as we see fit.

Alternate ending to that

,, and nobody wants to hear from someone elses!
//

584 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:26:09pm

re: #579 Slumbering Behemoth

Or don't. Opinions are like assholes... We're all entitled to use our own as we see fit.

You're all a bunch a feces-flinging monkeys.
Damn humans.

585 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:26:16pm

re: #578 HappyWarrior

Yep, they act like only they pay taxes and then when other people tell them their ideas will screw up a lot of people's lives, they say they're being oppressed. It's nonsense. Sorry about your Dad. Really, it's awful that companies pull stunts like that.

Well, luckily, I suppose, he passed (last year) before they could raid the pension fund. They try it every other year here.

586 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:26:22pm

re: #573 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Is there anything original in what you just said, or was that scraped off the top of CATO?

Public sector unions break no one's back so just pipe down.

YES THEY DO! When they demand pay and benefits packages that a city cannot support, they are breaking their member's back. Because in cases where a municipality files Chapter 9, its those retirees who end as loses when the bankruptcy trustee voids their pension contract.

587 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:26:37pm

re: #582 Varek Raith

Texas wildfires destroy at least 500 homes

588 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:26:41pm

re: #580 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That, we are. Sentence stays.

I can't delete it. Most likely wouldn't if I could. But it don't stay 'cuz you say so.

589 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:26:55pm

re: #586 Dark_Falcon

YES THEY DO!

No they don't; stop yelling.

590 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:27:13pm

re: #584 Varek Raith

You're all a bunch a feces-flinging monkeys.
Damn humans.

Why do you hang with us?

591 blueraven  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:27:31pm

re: #567 Dark_Falcon

Well, those pensions did end up being grossly inflated by public sector unions in the end. While they started off as a good thing, the unions in question focused only on "getting more" and the results have been disastrous. The former home of Mare Island, Vallejo CA, had to declare bankruptcy to get out of its impossible pension and retirement obligations. So don't go acting like the public sector unions are innocent, because they sure as Hell aren't.

But this is not really the issue. Public sector employers in Wisconsin, for example, were willing to take some financial hits, but that wasn't good enough.
Walker and his cronies wanted to take away all their rights.

592 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:27:42pm

re: #589 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No they don't; stop yelling.

Yelling, like sentences, stay!

593 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:27:54pm

re: #588 Slumbering Behemoth

I can't delete it. Most likely wouldn't if I could. But it don't stay 'cuz you say so.

It does stay, because I'm not altering it, or taking back the statement.

Agree with it or don't; doesn't matter.

594 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:28:41pm

re: #592 sattv4u2

Yelling, like sentences, stay!

Shrieking banshees.

595 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:28:46pm

re: #590 ggt

Sith have strange fetishes. Judge them for it.

596 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:29:20pm

re: #591 blueraven

But this is not really the issue. Public sector employers in Wisconsin, for example, were willing to take some financial hits, but that wasn't good enough.
Walker and his cronies wanted to take away all their rights.

Yep, this is the problem I had with what Walker and the other governors did.

597 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:30:18pm

re: #595 Slumbering Behemoth

Sith have strange fetishes. Judge them for it.

I guess there are strange fetishes.

Satt could fill us in, but I don't think I want to know.

598 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:30:27pm

re: #594 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Shrieking banshees.

Yup

Yet, how many conservatives lapsed into blaming UNION THUG GANG MEMBERS for the accident.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Physician, Heal Thyself!

599 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:30:46pm

re: #593 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If it stays, it stays because our host allows it, not because you deem it so. You and I are guests here, that's was my only point.

600 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:30:50pm

re: #551 HappyWarrior

The thing that upsets me is many of them are all too willing to point at "union thugs" and totally ignore the corporate thuggery that led to the formation of unions in the first place. Homestead anyone? and I can think of many more. I just know Homestead since my family's Western Pa bred.

The Battle of the Overpass at Ford's Rouge Complex in 1937; Detroit News photographer Scotty Kilpatrick's pictures of Ford's security men beating down Walter Reuther and others is one of the main reason why there is a Pulitzer Prize for photography (which I didn't know about before...you learn something new every day ;-P).

601 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:31:17pm

re: #574 HappyWarrior

Blankenship man what an asshole that man is. A throwback to the worst excesses of the gilded age. Also on the subject of pensions, Bethhelem Steel I am pretty sure got rid of their employees pension program in the early 2000's. I had a great uncle that worked there. He was a WWII vet and very sickly towards the end of his life. He had already passed on when they did that but I am sure there were many men like him out there who got the short end of the stick. I mean you work somewhere your whole life, they promise you a pension, and then they cut it? I must admit to being biased in favor of unions due to my own family's experiences but I think those who hate on unions often miss the big picture about what unionization is all about in the first place.

Be honest, I think a lot of the hate pointed at unions is more envy than anything else. Folks who silently watch as their 401Ks become worthless, whose health "benefits" are becoming equally as worthless with each passing year, and who are constantly being conned out of better wages or promotions "for the good of the company" look on at unions who have it "so good" and are pissed.

602 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:31:23pm

re: #591 blueraven

But this is not really the issue. Public sector employers in Wisconsin, for example, were willing to take some financial hits, but that wasn't good enough.
Walker and his cronies wanted to take away all their rights.

UNION VIOLENT PUBLIC SECTUR LIBRARIAN THUG GANG MEMBERS are just the latest conservative Two Minutes Hate. Well one of them, anyway.

603 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:31:27pm

re: #590 ggt

Why do you hang with us?

He's a vampire, and he wants to feed off you. But don't worry, your niceness means your blood is so sweet he'll keep you alive so he can feed some more.

//

604 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:32:07pm

re: #597 ggt

I guess there are strange fetishes.

Satt could fill us in, but I don't think I want to know.

Well,,, 1st, you take a potato peeler, a jar of Vaseline and a cloth diaper,,,

:)

605 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:32:28pm

@robquig

Son's teacher evacuated b/c of #CentralTxFires. She may have lost everything, but will teach tomorrow so her kids feel "normal."

606 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:32:30pm

re: #598 sattv4u2

Yup

Yet, how many conservatives lapsed into blaming UNION THUG GANG MEMBERS for the accident.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Physician, Heal Thyself!

Do you ever stop pointing and crying?

607 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:32:52pm

re: #601 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Be honest, I think a lot of the hate pointed at unions is more envy than anything else. Folks who silently watch as their 401Ks become worthless, whose health "benefits" are becoming equally as worthless with each passing year, and who are constantly being conned out of better wages or promotions "for the good of the company" look on at unions who have it "so good" and are pissed.

Yeah, I don't think so. There are plenty of news stories about Union pensions going bust as well. Or less work for Union employees or whatever.

It's bad all around.

608 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:33:14pm

re: #606 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you ever stop pointing and crying?

Pointing at hypocrisy, always
Crying, never

swingandamiss!

609 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:33:23pm

re: #590 ggt

Why do you hang with us?

Someone's got to watch the cattle.
;)

610 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:33:38pm

re: #606 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you ever stop pointing and crying?

Predictable Troller is predictable.

611 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:33:50pm

re: #603 Dark_Falcon

He's a vampire, and he wants to feed off you. But don't worry, your niceness means your blood is so sweet he'll keep you alive so he can feed some more.

//

I always wondered if being a smoker kept me safe from vampires. Can only imagine that a non-smokers blood would taste much better than mine.

612 laZardo  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:33:52pm

re: #603 Dark_Falcon

He's a vampire, and he wants to feed off you. But don't worry, your niceness means your blood is so sweet he'll keep you alive so he can feed some more.

//

No wonder I haven't been attacked yet. It's like drinking my blood will cause that explodey effect like that one vampire at the end of Blade.

/sovereign citizen stuff aside, I'd like to see Blade massacre Edward Cullen.

613 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:34:25pm

re: #600 talon_262

The Battle of the Overpass at Ford's Rouge Complex in 1937; Detroit News photographer Scotty Kilpatrick's pictures of Ford's security men beating down Walter Reuther and others is one of the main reason why there is a Pulitzer Prize for photography (which I didn't know about before...you learn something new every day ;-P).

Wow, I had never heard of that and as I've mentioned before my grandfather knew Reuther a little. I am sure that a man like him, an NLRB man was met with a lot of hostility when he was called out to check up on investigations especially in those early days.

614 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:34:59pm

re: #609 Varek Raith

Someone's got to watch the cattle.
;)

Are you a Chupacabra Hunter too?

615 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:35:06pm

re: #599 Slumbering Behemoth

If it stays, it stays because our host allows it, not because you deem it so. You and I are guests here, that's was my only point.

My point was different. I'm not taking it back, so next time just skip over it.

616 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:35:21pm

re: #581 jaunte

Downtown Austin earlier this evening, Bastrop fires in background:
Image: 308112_10150299612344693_815359692_7601623_2642075 _n.jpg

How are those prayers for rain workin' out for ya, Goodhair?

617 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:35:59pm

HoustonPress Houston Press
RT @firehat: Going to evacuate dogs in magnolia. Houston people- we MIGHT need places to put them

618 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:36:10pm

re: #610 Dark_Falcon

Predictable Troller is predictable.

We disagree on that issue, predictably.

That's just the way the ball bounces; it's not trolling to disagree. Grow up.

619 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:36:13pm

re: #616 Lidane

How are those prayers for rain workin' out for ya, Goodhair?

He should have lit some incense and appealed to the Cat Overlord!

620 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:36:45pm

re: #616 Lidane

I'd call that a 'No.'

621 laZardo  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:37:02pm

re: #619 ggt

He should have lit some incense and appealed to the Cat Overlord!

Then there would have been rainbows without the rain.

622 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:37:31pm

re: #597 ggt

I guess there are strange fetishes.

Satt could fill us in, but I don't think I want to know.

Don't throw scat at Satt. Satt saves scat to trade with Patt for rat. You're only making him wealthier
/worst Dr. Seuss ever.

623 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:37:39pm

re: #608 sattv4u2

Pointing at hypocrisy, always

Lingering hurt feelings.

624 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:37:39pm

re: #607 ggt

Yeah, I don't think so. There are plenty of news stories about Union pensions going bust as well. Or less work for Union employees or whatever.

It's bad all around.

It's bad for unions, but it's been worse for "right-to-workers" who got canned without a second thought, finding out that their retirement plans were either insufficient or absolutely worthless when the Dow plunged back in '08, are without any form of health benefits, and who are SOL when it comes to finding jobs in the same industry.

625 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:38:04pm

re: #612 laZardo

No wonder I haven't been attacked yet. It's like drinking my blood will cause that explodey effect like that one vampire at the end of Blade.

/sovereign citizen stuff aside, I'd like to see Blade massacre Edward Cullen.


You aren't the first to have that idea.

626 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:38:21pm

KXAN_News KXAN News

From Cong McCaul's office: FEMA on the ground in Bastrop on Tues. McCaul says grants could defray 75% of firefighting costs. #txfire

Ron Paul remains opposed.

627 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:38:30pm

re: #621 laZardo

Then there would have been rainbows without the rain.

Ok, well the first 21 seconds was annoying as hell.

Will the world fall apart if there are rainbows without rain?

628 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:39:01pm

re: #626 jaunte

KXAN_News KXAN News

Ron Paul remains opposed.

*deadpan* Colored me shocked.

629 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:39:04pm

re: #622 Slumbering Behemoth

Don't throw scat at Satt. Satt saves scat to trade with Patt for rat. You're only making him wealthier a fat cat.
/worst Dr. Seuss ever.

FTFY

630 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:39:20pm

re: #619 ggt

He should have lit some incense and appealed to the Cat Overlord!

He thinks cats are agents of the devil.

/kidding, I highly doubt he actually think that.

631 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:39:44pm

NYT slideshow: Deadly Wildfires Burn Through Texas

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

632 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:39:53pm

re: #624 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's bad for unions, but it's been worse for "right-to-workers" who got canned without a second thought, finding out that their retirement plans were either insufficient or absolutely worthless when the Dow plunged back in '08, are without any form of health benefits, and who are SOL when it comes to finding jobs in the same industry.

"Job creators", lulz

633 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:40:03pm

re: #630 Dark_Falcon

He thinks cats are agents of the devil.

/kidding, I highly doubt he actually think that.

I wouldn't. He'd probably burn midwives at the stake if pushed came to shover.

634 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:40:55pm

re: #626 jaunte

KXAN_News KXAN News

Ron Paul remains opposed.

Dr. No needs to go to Crab Key and have a fucking martini that is shaken but not stirred.

635 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:41:03pm

re: #630 Dark_Falcon

He thinks cats are agents of the devil.

/kidding, I highly doubt he actually think that.

I know my cats are agents of the Devil. The little one in particular has been plotting my death for years now. But she hasn't realized I'm on to he....*carrier lost*

636 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:41:27pm

re: #616 Lidane

How are those prayers for rain workin' out for ya, Goodhair?

Wish I could send some rain your way, because here in Tennessee, we've had plenty the past couple of days (and expect it to continue for a couple more). We've been getting remnants of TS Lee; at least the long-assed stretch of dry 80-90 degree+ weather we've had lately has been broken, because it didn't even get out of the mid-60s today.

637 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:42:07pm

re: #615 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My point was different. I'm not taking it back, so next time just skip over it.

I'll distill it to the simplest statement, much in a way that mirrors your own attitude here...

YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!
/:)

639 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:42:29pm

Satellite view of fires (animated loop)
Image: 110905_g13_vis_tx_fires_anim.gif

640 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:42:48pm

re: #623 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lingering hurt feelings.

Not at all, chippy!

swingandamiss,, strike two

641 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:43:11pm

re: #637 Slumbering Behemoth

I'll distill it to the simplest statement, much in a way that mirrors your own attitude here...

YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!
/:)

You're not the boss of me, either, so that's excellent.

Attitude stays.

642 Artist  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:43:34pm

re: #636 talon_262

Aye. Been rainin' here in PA all day, and from the looks of it, it won't be letting up throughout the night either.

643 laZardo  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:43:49pm

re: #638 Lidane

Youtube Video
644 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:43:56pm

Drought in West Texas, Fires in East Texas.

Leo in South East Texas

Tell me again, why people live in Texas?

645 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:44:14pm

re: #640 sattv4u2

Not at all, chippy!

swingandamiss,, strike two

Do you think you're in a competition, Sport? What do you think you're going to win?

646 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:45:00pm

re: #644 ggt

Drought in West Texas, Fires in East Texas.

Leo in South East Texas

Tell me again, why people live in Texas?

They like owning lots of guns or they work in the oil industry.

647 laZardo  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:45:21pm

re: #644 ggt

Drought in West Texas, Fires in East Texas.

Leo in South East Texas

Tell me again, why people live in Texas?

Ask Austinblue.

648 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:45:27pm

re: #644 ggt

Drought in West Texas, Fires in East Texas.

Leo in South East Texas

Tell me again, why people live in Texas?

Youtube Video
649 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:45:55pm

re: #645 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you think you're in a competition, Sport? What do you think you're going to win?

You tell me.

Looking upthread, you're the one that seems to have an issue trying for a final GOTCHYA

(ooppss ,,, I yelled ,,, damn damn damn!!)

:)

650 jaunte  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:46:13pm

re: #644 ggt

Mostly it's the music and barbecue.

651 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:46:41pm

re: #650 jaunte

Mostly it's the music and barbecue.

oh

I still don't get it.

652 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:46:41pm

re: #650 jaunte

Mostly it's the music and barbecue.

And it's not Mississippi!

653 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:46:53pm

re: #648 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Somebody's got a Telecaster...

654 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:47:00pm

re: #652 sattv4u2

And it's not Mississippi!

Ok, that makes sense to me.

655 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:47:34pm

re: #651 ggt

oh

I still don't get it.

Then I'll tell you again
1st, you take a potato peeler, a jar of Vaseline and a cloth diaper

656 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:47:44pm

re: #641 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Attitude stays.

At our host's pleasure, not yours.

657 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:48:45pm

re: #649 sattv4u2

You tell me.

That's a yes.

658 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:49:35pm

re: #656 Slumbering Behemoth

At our host's pleasure, not yours.

Look, if you don't like the posts then just downding or report. I don't know what else to tell you.

659 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:49:43pm

re: #657 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's a yes.

maybe

660 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:50:10pm

re: #657 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's a yes.

re: #659 sattv4u2

maybe

Or maybe not

661 Lidane  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:50:36pm

re: #648 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

[Video]

Youtube Video
662 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:50:47pm

re: #660 sattv4u2

re: #659 sattv4u2

Or maybe not

Desperation.

663 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:50:57pm

going upstairs

664 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:50:58pm

re: #614 ggt

Are you a Chupacabra Hunter too?

No.
Vampires see humans as cattle.
:P

665 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:51:35pm

re: #662 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Desperation.

Definitely not

swingandamiss

Strike Three!

666 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:52:10pm

re: #661 Lidane

Nice voices!

667 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:53:13pm

Lol con screamers.

668 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:53:23pm

re: #662 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Desperation.

re: #665 sattv4u2

Definitely not

swingandamiss

Strike Three!

DON'T MAKE ME PULL THIS BLOG OVER!

669 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:56:07pm

re: #658 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Look, if you don't like the posts then just downding or report. I don't know what else to tell you.

Well...

... if I thought you were being offensive or over the line, I'd report your comments. The honest truth is I don't see much of that coming from you. That doesn't mean I won't throw my asshole opinion into the mix with you.

As far as dings go...

... don't tell me what to do with my dinger. I'll downding you only when I want to, not when you tell me to.

670 sattv4u2  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:57:37pm

re: #668 Varek Raith

re: #665 sattv4u2

DON'T MAKE ME PULL THIS BLOG OVER!

Good

I forgot to go to the bathroom before we left

671 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 9:58:17pm

re: #586 Dark_Falcon

YES THEY DO! When they demand pay and benefits packages that a city cannot support, they are breaking their member's back. Because in cases where a municipality files Chapter 9, its those retirees who end as loses when the bankruptcy trustee voids their pension contract.

It's called deferred compensation, the unions took it for years in lieu of increased pay. The unions funded their obligations under contracts that both parties agreed to. Now they've learned the municipalities will raid their pensions and weasel out of contracts that were signed in good faith. It's not the union's fault the cities weren't prepared or willing to live up to their obligations.

672 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 10:00:47pm

re: #469 Gus 802

Damn the torpedoes trolling full speed flounce ahead!

No, don't do it Gus!
//
Hope you are well?

673 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 10:00:57pm

re: #671 goddamnedfrank

It's called deferred compensation, the unions took it for years in lieu of increased pay. The unions funded their obligations under contracts that both parties agreed to. Now they've learned the municipalities will raid their pensions and weasel out of contracts that were signed in good faith. It's not the union's fault the cities weren't prepared or willing to live up to their obligations.

Is "Cities" a euphemism for "politicans"?

674 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 10:08:35pm

re: #673 ggt

Is "Cities" a euphemism for "politicans"?

In a sense, yes. It's also occurring in states like Minnesota, where the unions paid their obligations to the pension funds but the State has been withholding their half of the pay to balance the budget. This is of course a logical consequence of the current Republican fatwa against raising revenues. The idea here that the unions are the bad actors is utterly ridiculous, nobody held a gun to the heads of those who signed past contracts. The money to honor those past contracts exists, but an ideological claque of fools has decided now that government itself is the problem, that it's better to hold it hostage, to shrink or destroy it at any cost.

675 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 10:36:21pm

re: #655 sattv4u2

Then I'll tell you again
1st, you take a potato peeler, a jar of Vaseline and a cloth diaper

So you're the one giving David Vitter advice!

676 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 11:14:40pm

re: #671 goddamnedfrank

It's called deferred compensation, the unions took it for years in lieu of increased pay. The unions funded their obligations under contracts that both parties agreed to. Now they've learned the municipalities will raid their pensions and weasel out of contracts that were signed in good faith. It's not the union's fault the cities weren't prepared or willing to live up to their obligations.

The new republican march towards serfdom

677 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Sep 5, 2011 11:15:51pm

re: #586 Dark_Falcon

YES THEY DO! When they demand pay and benefits packages that a city cannot support, they are breaking their member's back. Because in cases where a municipality files Chapter 9, its those retirees who end as loses when the bankruptcy trustee voids their pension contract.

The cities agreed to it, the cities broke their bargain

Responsibility! I guess cities don't know what that means

678 boxhead  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 12:41:36am

re: #2 freetoken

Fox News misleading their viewers?

Shocked... I'm shocked.

Youtube Video
679 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 5:52:18am

re: #194 Buck

Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.”

Nothing about doing it by voting

WTF else happens in an election?

680 otoc  Tue, Sep 6, 2011 9:37:22am

The first fox youtube link has gone private. Is there another fox link or is the one on MediaMatters the best to use and compare?

Edit: I love the kinda new edit feature Charles!!


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