Rick Perry Would Have Persecuted Galileo

Anti-science candidate compares himself to father of modern science
Wingnuts • Views: 28,917

For me, the most memorable moment of last night’s debate was Rick Perry’s comparison of himself to Galileo — because Perry refuses to accept the science of climate change. The cynical deceptiveness of this comment is mind-boggling.

Galileo fought for years to defend the scientific theory of heliocentrism, and the people who harassed, persecuted, and eventually convicted him of “heresy” were exactly Rick Perry’s type: religious fanatics, acting out of fear, hatred, and blind ignorance.

Perry didn’t come up with this dumb inverted reality talking point on his own, of course; creationists frequently use the Galileo comparison too, when trying to cast themselves as the persecuted truth-seekers they are not. As a creationist, Rick Perry has certainly heard these arguments before, and so have the right wingers who cheered for his idiotic comments; this is straight from the far right’s anti-science playbook.

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192 comments
1 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:15:23am
Perry didn’t come up with this dumb talking point on his own, of course; creationists frequently use the Galileo comparison too, when trying to cast themselves as the persecuted truth-seekers they are not.

Show me one conservative today with any original ideas. Just one.

2 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:17:56am

They keep using that word. It does not mean what they think it means.

3 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:18:33am

Why stretch your brain when everything is written down for you? They condemn Obama for using a teleprompter during his speeches, yet they base their entire lives on several paper/digital teleprompters.

4 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:19:40am

Perry must have been listening to David Barton when he said "science always catches up to the bible" and believed it.

5 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:20:46am

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry must have been listening to David Barton when he said "science always catches up to the bible" and believed it.

Barton has never come across a lie he didn't like enough to repeat.

6 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:21:41am

Putting his hands on Ron Paul and wagging his finger in Paul's face will have the crazed hordes of the Paul army on his case. Maybe then he will gain some understanding of what persecution is (albeit justified in his case).

7 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:22:22am

Are the wingnuts trying to edit Galileo's wiki page yet?

8 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:23:50am

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Are the wingnuts trying to edit Galileo's wiki page yet?

That would be just typical, waiting until a guy dies before screwing with his wiki page.

9 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:24:20am

re: #8 b_sharp

That would be just typical, waiting until a guy dies before screwing with his wiki page.

GALILEO IS DEAD?!?!

10 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:24:59am

re: #8 b_sharp

That would be just typical, waiting until a guy dies before screwing with his wiki page.

Most of the wingnuts would not know whether Galileo is dead yet.

11 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:26:05am

re: #7 Killgore Trout

It is true that Galileo was also a bit of a dick, professionally, and that the Catholic Church itself was responsible for most of the astronomical advances during those days. If Galileo had been a better politician, he'd have never been put on trial.

But, in the end, it was heresy he was charged with, and it reminds us what happens when science is subservient to either religion or politics.

In both regards, the climate scientists are Galileo, and the deniers are the Church, either as religious or political enemies of his.

12 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:27:05am

The last couple of weeks I've noticed a lot of animals, including snakes and salamanders, crossing the road as they play out their yearly search for a crib and a sex object of their own. Is that perhaps why there are so few lizards here this morning?

13 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:27:46am
14 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:27:56am

re: #10 Shiplord Kirel

Most of the wingnuts would not know whether Galileo is dead yet.

Can't they just check ConservaPedia?

15 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:28:18am

re: #12 b_sharp

The last couple of weeks I've noticed a lot of animals, including snakes and salamanders, crossing the road as they play out their yearly search for a crib and a sex object of their own. Is that perhaps why there are so few lizards here this morning?

Due to the unstable economy I'll not be migrating this year.

16 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:28:47am

re: #13 Gus 802

I liked that version of god, in that he was pissed off at people's humility rather than wanting it.

The idea of a god that needs worship is weird to me.

17 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:29:37am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Due to the unstable economy I'll not be migrating this year.

My wife stapled some of my body parts to the floor so I can't migrate.

Ouch.

18 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:29:38am
19 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:30:30am

re: #18 Gus 802

The last person Galileo saw.

What does he have in his hands?

20 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:30:51am

re: #19 b_sharp

What does he have in his hands?

The family jewels.

//

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:31:16am

re: #14 b_sharp

Can't they just check ConservaPedia?

Sadly, the Conservapedia page on Galileo is awkward, politically hedgy, and very badly written, but not as funny as I had hoped it might be.

22 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:31:48am

re: #20 Gus 802

The family jewels.

//

I knew I could count on you.
Don't you just love having a straight man around?

23 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:32:31am

re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist

In general Conservapedia is far too boring to be funny. You'd think it'd be rich in hilarity, but it's more of a sad look into the world of those who don't get out much.

24 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:33:07am

re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist

Sadly, the Conservapedia page on Galileo is awkward, politically hedgy, and very badly written, but not as funny as I had hoped it might be.

Fixed it for you.

25 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:35:13am

re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist

Sadly, the Conservapedia page on Galileo is awkward, politically hedgy, and very badly written, but not as funny as I had hoped it might be.

There are non-wingnut POEs adding to the Conservapedia pages that confuse the hell out of the wingnuts so any given page will be a mishmash of POE and whatever the hell you want to call wingnut input.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:35:15am

re: #23 Obdicut

In general Conservapedia is far too boring to be funny. You'd think it'd be rich in hilarity, but it's more of a sad look into the world of those who don't get out much.

I dunno, I still cherish the time I was reading their article on Einstein, trying to figure out why his work upset them so, and then realized that they think 'relativity' means 'moral relativity'.

27 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:35:23am

re: #23 Obdicut

In general Conservapedia is far too boring to be funny. You'd think it'd be rich in hilarity, but it's more of a sad look into the world of those who don't get out much.

Is Stephen Colbert still God over there? And also Joseph, Moses and John the Baptist?

28 Lidane  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:35:29am

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Are the wingnuts trying to edit Galileo's wiki page yet?

David Barton is still working out the talking points that won't get him banned from Wikipedia. Give him a couple of days.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:36:10am

I also enjoy the reasons to marry a conservative. I've been assured they're POE work, but they've been there for a LONG time.

30 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:36:27am

This particular line of self serving disinformation is particularly vomit worthy. Lest anyone forget, the strength of Galileo was in the data and in the application of reason to observation of the physical world. Perry and fellow travellers reject reason and observation itself. It is like a white supremacist comparing himself to Martin Luther King... (well the teabags do that too...)

Case in point... as predicted by climate models for some time, the American south is drying out at an alarming rate. There have been major and progressively worse droughts almost every year in Texas for over a decade. The drought that started in February and is continuing as we speak is the worst so far - and they are predicted to only get worse for the foreseeable future.

This has cost Texas billions of dollars - and the associated heat waves have caused deaths. This has also caused outbreaks of wildfires. Of course, in light of all of this natural phenomena going on right out his window, Perry slashed fire fighters.

The nature of science is to observe and predict the natural order based on the principle that the universe follows certain understandable laws in its behaviour.

Of course, Perry and GOP hubris goes beyond simply daring to compare themselves to infinitely greater men like Galileo. By rejecting basic physical evidence, the hypocritically religious Perry rejects God as well. If one actually believes in God, one must conclude that God made and runs the universe. Those physical Laws then have a Divine origin. It is an inescapable conclusion for any theist. Data and observation must therefore be nothing less than the revealed will of God Himself.

Of course, delusional megalomaniacs like Perry probably also think they are in the same league as Jesus as well.

31 zora  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:36:54am
32 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:37:48am

re: #31 zora

Image: Rick-Perry-1.jpg

that is genius!

33 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:38:01am

Are Christians being burned at the stake or stretched on the rack by scientists until they "confess"?

They have an amazing ability to portray themselves as victims because they are no longer in a position to terrorize, intimidate and supress people who hold ideas contrary to their views, which in their eyes means "hostile to our entire way of life".

34 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:38:25am

re: #31 zora

where did you get that from? Could I please have a link to send it along...

35 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:38:29am

I saw that last night and thought huh seriously.

36 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:38:37am

re: #32 LudwigVanQuixote

that is genius!

Still not quite as good as this though...

[Link: tithenai.tumblr.com...]

37 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:40:32am

Galileo was a liberal.

38 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:40:59am

re: #37 Gus 802

Galileo was a liberal.

and a foreigner

39 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:42:03am

re: #38 ralphieboy

and a foreigner

Probably a Muslim socialist union member too.

40 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:42:14am

No doubt about it they would have persecuted Gaileo. I have no doubt whatsoever about it.

41 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:42:17am

re: #38 ralphieboy

and a foreigner

And a Catholic!

42 Four More Tears  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:42:30am

re: #37 Gus 802

Galileo was a liberal.

More like Gaylileo!

43 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:42:36am

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Probably a Muslim socialist union member too.

homosexual agenda member too who also supports secularism.

44 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:43:02am

re: #36 jamesfirecat

Still not quite as good as this though...

[Link: tithenai.tumblr.com...]

That made my day. Thank you!

45 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:43:10am

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Probably a Muslim socialist union member too.

He also wore tights.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:43:11am

re: #33 ralphieboy

Are Christians being burned at the stake or stretched on the rack by scientists until they "confess"?

Well, technically not, but I understand that small children are forced to learn the dogma of the scientists in school, and also, a guy who teaches botany at UPenn was once quite hostile when the church secretary backed onto his lawn by accident.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:43:45am

re: #41 jamesfirecat

And a Catholic!

James wins.

48 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:44:08am

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Probably a Muslim socialist union member too.

I think he toyed with that 'theory' of gravity also.

49 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:44:20am

re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist

James wins.

Yet I was the seed!

//

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:44:31am

re: #48 RayFerd

I think he toyed with that 'theory' of gravity also.

Just like that druggie Newton.

51 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:45:07am

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

Just like that druggie Newton.

Did he have bad teeth?

//

52 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:45:16am

re: #45 Gus 802

He also wore tights.

Everybody wore tights back then. The tell on being gay was an insufficiently baroque codpiece.

53 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:45:25am

I really loved the moment when Conservative Christians cheered for Perry's body count as governor...including that of Cameron Todd Willingham. After all, as they say: "It takes balls to execute an innocent man!"

They would been the same folks cheering on the slaughter of those

peace loving pacifist pussy Christians

in the Colosseum as the lions were set loose on them.

54 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:46:46am

re: #53 celticdragon

I really loved the moment when Conservative Christians cheered for Perry's body count as governor...including that of Cameron Todd Willingham. After all, as they say: "It takes balls to execute an innocent man!"

They would been the same folks cheering on the slaughter of those

in the Colosseum as the lions were set loose on them.

I don't have particularly strong feeling on the death penalty one way or the other but that was certainly cringe inducing.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:46:57am

re: #52 The Ghost of a Flea

Everybody wore tights back then. The tell on being gay was an insufficiently baroque codpiece.

Green codpieces on Thursdays.

56 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:47:06am

re: #51 Gus 802

Did he have bad teeth?

//

I think he only ate soft figs.

57 Batman  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:47:19am

Galileo was a scientist who knew what the fuck he was talking about. Perry is a dolt who jumped on an industry-created bandwagon.

58 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:48:05am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

My father-in-law is a retired science professor and raving Dawkins-style athiest, mother-in-law saw the light and converted to the Baptist faith after a stint in the mental hospital.

Watching the two of them interact, I see the entire dynamic that is driving the discussion of science and education in America...

59 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:48:31am

re: #33 ralphieboy

Are Christians being burned at the stake or stretched on the rack by scientists until they "confess"?

They have an amazing ability to portray themselves as victims because they are no longer in a position to terrorize, intimidate and supress people who hold ideas contrary to their views, which in their eyes means "hostile to our entire way of life".

You mean their utterly fear ridden, reason rejecting, hypocritical, callous, self serving, ignorant and stupid way of life? I don't mean religious people who can still think. I don't mean good people who believe in the spiritual. I mean these dogmatic, bed wetting, crude caricatures of religion who deal only in fear driven dogma and smau hatred. Morons like the religious right would have been consigned to the dustbin of history in a better educated age.

It is a terrible pity we scientists can't force them to do things like learn basic math and critical thinking skills. Alas, the rack can not educate. There must be a brain there to educate.

60 albusteve  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:48:39am

re: #57 nonsense

Galileo was a scientist who knew what the fuck he was talking about. Perry is a dolt who jumped on an industry-created bandwagon.

proof the manufacturing sector of govt needs more strict regulation

61 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:48:45am

Who is this Galileo to say the earth revolves around the sun. He should be burned for heresy.

62 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:49:21am

It's pretty funny you know. Comparing these climate "skeptics" to Galileo. You know a climate "skeptic scientist" can rake in a lot bigger money than a climate change scientist. One gets science grants and the other gets a huge annual check from Exxon.

63 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:49:44am

re: #58 ralphieboy

My father-in-law is a retired science professor and raving Dawkins-style athiest, mother-in-law saw the light and converted to the Baptist faith after a stint in the mental hospital.

Watching the two of them interact, I see the entire dynamic that is driving the discussion of science and education in America...

Thanksgiving must be a treat...

64 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:50:19am

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

Green codpieces on Thursdays.

Lets's not bring the liturgical colors into this. The proper wear for the Church seasons is almost impossible to explain to Baptists.

65 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:51:23am

re: #62 Gus 802

It's pretty funny you know. Comparing these climate "skeptics" to Galileo. You know a climate "skeptic scientist" can rake in a lot bigger money than a climate change scientist. One gets science grants and the other gets a huge annual check from Exxon.

Don't forget, the one who gets the grants is an actual scientist who competed with other scientists for teh funds - which were given out by people with Ph.D.s. The other is nothing more than a latter day ad-man from an infomercial.

66 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:51:24am

Break out the popcorn (and your wading boots)! The Perrysites and Paulbots are going at it hammer and tongs over at the Fever Swamp!

Perry vs. Paul: A Texas-sized war

67 zora  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:52:09am

re: #34 LudwigVanQuixote

from the immoral minority

[Link: theimmoralminority.blogspot.com...]

68 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:52:16am

Religion and science can co-exist. Like oil and water, they cannot co-mingle without eventually getting separated.

69 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:53:03am

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

Break out the popcorn (and your wading boots)! The Perrysites and Paulbots are going at it hammer and tongs over at the Fever Swamp!

Perry vs. Paul: A Texas-sized war

"This town ain't big enough fer the two of us."

[dramatic wild west guitar riff]

70 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:53:32am

re: #53 celticdragon

I really loved the moment when Conservative Christians cheered for Perry's body count as governor...including that of Cameron Todd Willingham. After all, as they say: "It takes balls to execute an innocent man!"

They would been the same folks cheering on the slaughter of those

in the Colosseum as the lions were set loose on them.

Now now... the vagaries of Christian love TM as given out by the holy Republicans of Texas known the world over for their acts of charity and compassion, are difficult for heretics like us to understand.

71 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:53:33am

Hunger Rate Spikes In Rick Perry’s Texas, Even As National Rate Holds Steady

The number of people on food stamps in Texas rose 2.8 percent between 2009 and 2010, and is now a staggering 15.6 percent of the state’s population. The increase was one of the highest in the nation.

Federal officials credit an increase in government food aid for keeping national hunger rates steady. Programs like the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) have grown to meet increased demand during the recession. However, U.S. Agriculture Undersecretary Kevin Concannon notes that Texas hasn’t done as well as other large states like Florida that were hit much harder by the downturn, in part because Texas’ food stamp eligibility determination program has been a mess, “with a backlog of nearly 60,000 unprocessed applications after ‘a very inefficient and ineffective privatization scheme.’”

Ironically, Perry has recently been highly critical of the very food stamp program that would have helped his state’s poorest residents get enough to eat. At a campaign stop last month, Perry called the size of the food stamp program a “testament to widespread misery” — instead of an essential aid that’s keeping Texan families alive.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:53:48am

re: #57 nonsense

Galileo was a scientist who knew what the fuck he was talking about. Perry is a dolt who jumped on an industry-created bandwagon.

I think that what makes me nuts is the misuse of past scientific screw-ups.

Pavlov won a Nobel for his work on digestion, back in 1904, and according to my psychopathology textbook, the work he did on that has pretty much been shown to be largely incorrect. What everyone remembers, of course, is the behavioral conditioning research, which came up rather coincidentally. Scientists make mistakes. It happens. It happens all the damn time. Good men and women toil sincerely and produce stuff we later realize was totally wrong.

This does not, however, mean that you should pick the theory that most closely matches your current political needs, and back it like a horse, on the grounds that it's as likely to turn out right as anything else, even when all the peer research and such is saying, 'er, no'.

73 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:53:58am

re: #67 zora

from the immoral minority

[Link: theimmoralminority.blogspot.com...]

Thank you!

74 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:55:12am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hunger Rate Spikes In Rick Perry’s Texas, Even As National Rate Holds Steady

Christian love TM Texas style.

76 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:56:53am

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

Break out the popcorn (and your wading boots)! The Perrysites and Paulbots are going at it hammer and tongs over at the Fever Swamp!

Perry vs. Paul: A Texas-sized war

Perry with his 6 shooter against a crew of Paul supporters with a fascinating assortment of assault rifles and automatic shotguns (all to protect their gold and silver stash).

I wanna be in on the casting call for this movie.

77 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:58:34am

So this is the Texas miracle huh. Thanks for the links guys. Already was unimpressed with Perry. Even more knowing the reality.

78 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:58:43am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hunger Rate Spikes In Rick Perry’s Texas, Even As National Rate Holds Steady

Opposition media strategists won't go hungry. Once untracked they will descend on Goodhair like a pack of ravenous wolves. If he isn't completely devoured in the primaries, Democrat ad mavens will finish him off in the general.

80 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:59:09am

re: #69 laZardo

"This town ain't big enough fer the two of us."

[dramatic wild west guitar riff]

[Tumbleweed blows by]

82 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:59:29am

Judging from the wingnut insults coming at me on Twitter, this post hit a nerve.

83 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:59:59am
84 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:00:08am

That's right folks. DNA science found these men innocent. 41 people that could have been killed, murdered, slaughtered had it not been for the science of DNA. A science that found much of its roots with Darwin.

85 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:00:18am

re: #76 celticdragon

Perry with his 6 shooter against a crew of Paul supporters with a fascinating assortment of assault rifles and automatic shotguns (all to protect their gold and silver stash).

I wanna be in on the casting call for this movie.

I call dibs on the Chinese railroad worker.

/because asians is asians in old western movies q;

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:00:40am

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Who is this Galileo to say the earth revolves around the sun. He should be burned for heresy.

That was brought up as an option. Giordano Bruni was burned a mere thirty years earlier.

OTOH, Copernicus and Kepler happily traipsed through life with nary a scratch on them.

Complicated world.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:02:31am

re: #85 laZardo

I call dibs on the Chinese railroad worker.

/because asians is asians in old western movies q;

Actually, Asians is often white people in old Western movies. But you'll do. Got one of those hats?

88 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:04:37am

re: #85 laZardo

I call dibs on the Chinese railroad worker.

/because asians is asians in old western movies q;

I would try out for the hooker with a heart of gold...but, ahem, I would need more plastic surgery then the part would pay.

89 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:05:17am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hunger Rate Spikes In Rick Perry’s Texas, Even As National Rate Holds Steady

in part because Texas’ food stamp eligibility determination program has been a mess, “with a backlog of nearly 60,000 unprocessed applications after ‘a very inefficient and ineffective privatization scheme.’”

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

90 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:05:38am

@michaelpfalcone Michael Falcone
Rolls Royce with carload of people pulling into Rick #Perry event in Orange Co. #california

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:05:55am

re: #89 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

Someone's gotta LICK those Food Stamps, you know...

92 Ming  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:06:54am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

I dunno, I still cherish the time I was reading their article on Einstein, trying to figure out why his work upset them so, and then realized that they think 'relativity' means 'moral relativity'.

Einstein never got a Nobel prize for either the special or the general theory of relativity, because of the political controversy about them. His Nobel Prize was for his work on the photoelectric effect. It's sad that in the year 2011, a scientist can adhere to the scientific method and work in perfectly good faith, and still offend many people.

93 zora  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:07:15am

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

drudge says: UP IN HIS FACE: PERRY GETS AGGRESSIVE...

94 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:07:25am

Pete Nicely
@LOLGOP Ann Arbor, Michigan
When you go from Eisenhower to Nixon to Reagan to W. to Palin to Bachmann to Perry, it must be difficult to believe in evolution.

95 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:07:33am

re: #89 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

Yeah, that food just magically appears on the store shelves.

96 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:07:41am

re: #89 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

Everyone knows that welfare queens is using Food Stamps to buy sirloin steaks and lobster!

97 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:07:55am

re: #82 Charles

Judging from the wingnut insults coming at me on Twitter, this post hit a nerve.

Good for you!

Perry compared himself to Galileo last night.. for bravely resisting the "church" of climate science. Ohhh and those evolutionists too....

It's kinda like a klansman comparing himself to MLK for bravely resisting black people's racism ... Of course racist, white supremacist, teabags already do that...

98 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:07:57am

@LOLGOP Pete Nicely
BREAKING: Rick Perry announces plan to vaccinate all GOP candidates against "Science."

99 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:08:20am

Must. Follow.

100 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:08:21am

re: #89 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

Facepalm.

101 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:08:27am

re: #89 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

Yes they actually have, because otherwise those people wouldn't be buying less food, less food bought= less food demanded= less food produced = need fewer people to do the job of picking/processing/creating food.

102 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:08:31am

re: #97 LudwigVanQuixote

Good for you!

Perry compared himself to Galileo last night.. for bravely resisting the "church" of climate science. Ohhh and those evolutionists too...

It's kinda like a klansman comparing himself to MLK for bravely resisting black people's racism ... Of course racist, white supremacist, teabags already do that...

Perry out-derps Sarah Palin's "Blood Libel"

103 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:08:48am

I'm not a fan of Vladimir Putin, but I totally want to see Perry try that grab and finger-shake thing against a guy with his own judo throw.

104 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:09:12am

re: #95 RayFerd

Yeah, that food just magically appears on the store shelves.

Don't believe me. I'm just saying what the Ag Secretary said.

105 zora  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:09:43am

re: #75 Gus 802

yet romney is apologizing for his healthcare plan. i read that only about 5% are without healthcare in mass. i believe it is the lowest in the nation.

106 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:09:58am

re: #96 Alouette

You bucks, Tbone steaks!

107 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:10:26am

re: #102 Alouette

Perry out-derps Sarah Palin's "Blood Libel"

I am just in awe of a political cycle where the GOP front runners are as dumb compared to W. Bush as W. Bush is dumb compared to Gallieo.

108 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:10:42am

re: #104 NJDhockeyfan

Don't believe me. I'm just saying what the Ag Secretary said.

[Video]

No, and I guess I don't believe the Ag Sec either (can't get to youtube from here). Call me cynical.

109 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:10:57am

re: #104 NJDhockeyfan

Don't believe me. I'm just saying what the Ag Secretary said.

[Video]

And he's right (assuming he said more people on food stamps= more jobs), see my 101 unless you have a counter argument.

110 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:10:57am

re: #105 zora

yet romney is apologizing for his healthcare plan. i read that only about 5% are without healthcare in mass. i believe it is the lowest in the nation.

Amazing isn't it? Romney should be embracing his past. Acknowledging the good he did. Instead he's chosen to recreate himself as some ignorant right wing zealot (aka Teabagger).

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:11:15am

re: #103 The Ghost of a Flea

I'm not a fan of Vladimir Putin, but I totally want to see Perry try that grab and finger-shake thing against a guy with his own judo throw.

Apparently Putin spent a lot of time comparing his dog to the Bushes', and telling George W. how much better Putin's dog was.

Harper told Bush he should be happy it was just dogs Putin wanted to compare.

112 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:11:35am

re: #104 NJDhockeyfan

Don't believe me. I'm just saying what the Ag Secretary said.

[Video]

Yes. Because letting people go hungry was always good for this country.

114 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:12:11am
115 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:12:21am

re: #109 jamesfirecat

And he's right, see my 101 unless you have a counter argument.

Supply Side Jesus AWAY!

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:12:28am

re: #113 celticdragon

You forgot to add "strapping young bucks buying t-bone steaks"

T-bones are so eighties.

("Strapping young bucks" is so twenties, so...er...")

117 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:12:55am

re: #114 recusancy

The sad state of our economy in one graphic.
Accompanying article here: [Link: www.nytimes.com...]

1980

Trickle down economics is a failure.

118 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:13:43am

re: #109 jamesfirecat

And he's right (assuming he said more people on food stamps= more jobs), see my 101 unless you have a counter argument.

Who is getting all these jobs created by more people on food stamps, the ones printing those stamps out?

119 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:14:08am

re: #112 Gus 802

Yes. Because letting people go hungry was always good for this country.

What's that have to do with food stamps creating jobs?

120 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:14:21am

re: #118 NJDhockeyfan

Who is getting all these jobs created by more people on food stamps, the ones printing those stamps out?

No the people who are getting hired to create the food that those people with the food stamps are buying...

I said that in my 101 if you had bothered to look.

121 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:14:33am

re: #119 NJDhockeyfan

What's that have to do with food stamps creating jobs?

You're the one who went on a tangent.
;)

122 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:15:25am

Gee, it's raining.
Again.

123 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:15:55am

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

T-bones are so eighties.

("Strapping young bucks" is so twenties, so...er...")

So 1820's...

124 zora  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:16:04am

re: #118 NJDhockeyfan

who cares if feeding the hungry creates more jobs? some things are not based on roi.

125 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:16:41am

re: #89 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

You really are a smug, sanctimonious SOB.

Food stamps and church donations kept my family alive after I was badly hurt on the job and my employer locked me out for insurance reasons. It took over four years for me to get my Social Security disability, and long term injury insurance doesn't last anywhere near that long.

You get that? Food stamps kept us alive.

I would tell you what to do with yourself, but you are not worth getting banned.

126 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:17:14am

re: #119 NJDhockeyfan

What's that have to do with food stamps creating jobs?

Why don't you read up on the history of Appalachia and the change it saw thanks in large part to the creation of LBJ's "Great Society."

127 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:17:20am

re: #122 Varek Raith

Gee, it's raining.
Again.

Is Rick Perry around?

128 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:18:21am

re: #119 NJDhockeyfan

What's that have to do with food stamps creating jobs?

Why do you not care about hungry people? Are you evil or just in campaign mode? Or both?

129 RabbitRunner  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:18:31am

Coulter did a Perry in Whirled Nuts Daily where she had the colossal gall to call Evolutionary Biologists religious fanatics, [Link: www.wnd.com...] on a website devoted to religious fanatics no less!
Of course, any barely literate crackpot can point to something that Darwin got wrong then claim that proves ID, creationism whatever

Of course, the majority of Scientists who support global warming are all part of the "Big Science Conspiracy", so you have to ignore them!

130 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:19:02am

re: #118 NJDhockeyfan

Who is getting all these jobs created by more people on food stamps, the ones printing those stamps out?

The people making the products they buy with the food stamps, the cashiers working those registers, the stockboys, the truck drivers, etc. all the way down to the farmers at the end and all the people they employ.

Isn't that hard to figure out, really. That's why spending on things like food stamps is good for the economy.

131 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:19:26am

re: #120 jamesfirecat

No the people who are getting hired to create the food that those people with the food stamps are buying...

I said that in my 101 if you had bothered to look.

And the drivers (both long haul and local delivery) that are needed to move the food. And if more stokers and cashiers are needed to stock and process more purchases. And I am sure there are a dozen more that don't come to the tips of my fingers right now.

The problem is the myopic supply side thinking. Pick up of supply side causes more jobs, but pick up on consumer side multiplies both sides.

132 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:19:56am

And many of them can't even get food stamps.

From An Overview of Poverty in Appalachia:

Hunger and malnutrition are a hidden disaster for many of the region's poor. Rural residents pay up to 30% more for their food from local merchants who cannot offer the prices found in most major supermarkets. Pride and physical isolation coupled with lack of public transportation keep many people from applying for food stamps. In a ten-county area in southwestern Virginia, 90,197 families qualified for food stamps in February 1992; however only 51,649 received food stamp assistance.

Yeah. Republicans and the right wing really care about country people.

133 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:20:13am

re: #128 recusancy

It's not true anyway. Food stamps create plenty of jobs. It's a huge increase in the marginal utility of that money.

134 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:20:27am

re: #120 jamesfirecat

No the people who are getting hired to create the food that those people with the food stamps are buying...

I said that in my 101 if you had bothered to look.

Excuse me if I misunderstood you. Where are all those jobs being created in the food industry? I haven't read anything about that.

135 RabbitRunner  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:20:31am

re: #119 NJDhockeyfan

You must have taken too many pucks and sticks to the head. But if nothing else, food stamps helps keep the agricultural, food processing and retail people employed.

136 Lidane  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:20:59am

re: #125 celticdragon

You get that? Food stamps kept us alive..

They keep a lot of people alive.

Hell, until recently, there was a point where I was seriously considering getting a Lone Star Card just to be able to buy groceries because my financial situation was so dire. I definitely won't mock anyone on food stamps, ever. I definitely have been in the situation where I thought they were my only recourse to be able to eat.

137 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:21:02am

re: #132 Gus 802

And many of them can't even get food stamps.

From An Overview of Poverty in Appalachia:

Yeah. Republicans and the right wing really care about country people.

Dontcha know. If we help them we're really hurting them! Everything's the opposite in wingnutland.

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:21:05am

re: #130 Obdicut

spending on things like food stamps is good for the economy.

In this case, the Keynsian short-term, i.e., until the economy recovers, yes. Over the long term, not.

139 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:23:05am

re: #134 NJDhockeyfan

Excuse me if I misunderstood you. Where are all those jobs being created in the food industry? I haven't read anything about that.

Let's say that you're a store in Appalachia, and 50% of the people in your area can afford your prices with some regularity, at least to buy staples and such there. The other 50% are too poor to do so, except in very small amounts on low-cost items.

If you provide food stamps for that 50%, they will spend a lot more money at your store. So, you will buy more products from your wholesaler, need a larger or more frequent truck visits to drop off your suppplies, and your store will be busier, so you might hire someone directly. Even if you don't, the increased volume of your sales causes increased employment up the food chain, so to speak.

Multiply that by a thousand stores, and you've got a large number of jobs.

Do you understand?

140 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:23:59am

Whoa really starting to thunder here.

141 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:24:09am

re: #134 NJDhockeyfan

Excuse me if I misunderstood you. Where are all those jobs being created in the food industry? I haven't read anything about that.

Have we drastically increased the number of food stamps we've started giving out recently?

142 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:24:22am

Food Stamps are obviously a liberal plot to undermine God's plan to punish the poor. If they had God's favor, they wouldn't be poor. I learned that from listening to the folks Rick Perry had at his prayer rally.

143 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:24:33am

re: #138 ralphieboy

In this case, the Keynsian short-term, i.e., until the economy recovers, yes. Over the long term, not.

No. As long as you actually have people below the poverty line, it makes sense to have food stamps. We don't have command economy and will never have 0% unemployment, there's always going to be people who fall through the cracks and it's always economical to help them out.

144 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:25:42am

re: #31 zora

Image: Rick-Perry-1.jpg

EXQUISITE!

Anyone else remember "Real Genius"?

145 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:25:59am

re: #138 ralphieboy

In this case, the Keynsian short-term, i.e., until the economy recovers, yes. Over the long term, not.

Why is it not good in the long term? Food stamps are one of the most effect ways of serving both an economic good (getting money into the economy) and a moral one (keeping people from starving to death) that's why they've been showing up in various forms since 1939...

146 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:26:04am

re: #136 Lidane

They keep a lot of people alive.

Hell, until recently, there was a point where I was seriously considering getting a Lone Star Card just to be able to buy groceries because my financial situation was so dire. I definitely won't mock anyone on food stamps, ever. I definitely have been in the situation where I thought they were my only recourse to be able to eat.

I never felt so degraded or humilated going from making (when contracting) 27 dollars an hour to begging for food from the state.

That is what I had to do, and for all that, I do not regret doing it. My employer forced it on me. (the vice president of legal affairs told me to my face I shoulf go put in for welfare. No kidding...just before they escorted me off the property and took my badge. Of course, I wasn;t fired...I was merely on long term medical leave against my will, but why let that get in the way)

147 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:27:48am

re: #145 jamesfirecat


lemme be clear here: spending more on food stamps is only a good thing in times of a shrinking economy. I am not for abolsishing it, but the point of growing a healthy economy is to diminish the need for such programs, even though it will probably never be entirely abolished.

148 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:27:54am

re: #137 recusancy

Dontcha know. If we help them we're really hurting them! Everything's the opposite in wingnutland.

...

The Democrat Party only does this to keep the poor people enslaved to their party guaranteeing that they will vote for their politicians!!11ty

149 bratwurst  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:29:08am

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Food Stamps are obviously a liberal plot to undermine God's plan to punish the poor. If they had God's favor, they wouldn't be poor. I learned that from listening to the folks Rick Perry had at his prayer rally.

Well heck, the poor in this country have refrigerators AND microwaves...how presumptuous to want something to put in them!

150 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:29:31am

re: #149 bratwurst

Well heck, the poor in this country have refrigerators AND microwaves...how presumptuous to want something to put in them!

Greedy bastards. :)

151 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:30:05am

And another thing. Getting food stamps is not that easy to get. At least from people I've spoken with. It's just another right wing myth.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:31:45am

"They laughed at Galileo. They laughed at Newton. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan.

153 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:32:39am

Ron Paul was basically whining last night that people like him are never seen as compassionate. Well, Ron, when you value tax cuts for the wealthy over services that actually help the poor and are not merely mandates as you shrill, that kind of leaves the impression that you don't give a damn.

154 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:32:58am

re: #125 celticdragon

You really are a smug, sanctimonious SOB.

Food stamps and church donations kept my family alive after I was badly hurt on the job and my employer locked me out for insurance reasons. It took over four years for me to get my Social Security disability, and long term injury insurance doesn't last anywhere near that long.

You get that? Food stamps kept us alive.

I would tell you what to do with yourself, but you are not worth getting banned.

I never said I didn't support food stamps. I think it's a fine program and needed greatly.

The fact that food stamps is creating jobs is ridiculous though.

155 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:33:20am

re: #138 ralphieboy

In this case, the Keynsian short-term, i.e., until the economy recovers, yes. Over the long term, not.

The Keynsian short term... You mean the massive public government spending that lifted us out of the depression and created the largest economy in the world for several decades?

I simply do understand how Conservatives fail to understand that no middle class - no economy and no revenues for the government. If you want to fix the deficit, you create jobs - millions of them. Government jobs when no one else is hiring and you prime the pump. Hell we could have done that for the cost of the bailout... Hell we could update the power grid and have it pay fopr itself. But that would get in the way of corporate oligarchs bleeding this nation dry and the insane economic theories of the right which have never brought anything but misery. Shall we discuss deregulation and Enron, or Wall Street?

156 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:34:32am

re: #154 NJDhockeyfan

Funny coming from someone who discounts AGW based on what you see out your window.

157 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:36:00am

re: #156 Varek Raith

Funny coming from someone who discounts AGW based on what you see out your window.

That's bullshit.

158 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:37:34am

re: #154 NJDhockeyfan

I never said I didn't support food stamps. I think it's a fine program and needed greatly.

The fact that food stamps is creating jobs is ridiculous though.

Do you have any counter argument to the idea that an increase in the food demand (or at least an increase in the amount of money out in the economy to be spent on food) in turn must inevitably lead to an increase in the supply of food which in turn requires more people working to produce that food....?

159 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:40:24am

re: #158 jamesfirecat

Do you have any counter argument to the idea that an increase in the food demand (or at least an increase in the amount of money out in the economy to be spent on food) in turn must inevitably lead to an increase in the supply of food which in turn requires more people working to produce that food...?

With the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1% I would say it's had barely any effect on creating jobs.

160 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:40:48am

re: #158 jamesfirecat

Do you have any counter argument to the idea that an increase in the food demand (or at least an increase in the amount of money out in the economy to be spent on food) in turn must inevitably lead to an increase in the supply of food which in turn requires more people working to produce that food...?

I think the counter argument was, "I don't believe it". Kinda like the church to Galileo.

161 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:41:54am

re: #157 NJDhockeyfan

That's bullshit.

Which part?

162 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:42:06am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

With the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1% I would say it's had barely any effect on creating jobs.

It's had an effect on not losing more jobs.

163 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:42:40am

re: #161 Varek Raith

Which part?

I mean, it certainly wouldn't be the first time I've made an ass of myself.

164 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:43:42am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

Is there anything you didn't understand about my explanation of how food stamps do create jobs?

165 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:43:55am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

With the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1% I would say it's had barely any effect on creating jobs.

Answer the question above about the massive increase of people on food stamps. Because I would say the tax cuts for rich bastards has done nothing for the unemployment rate. And I can say that using facts as to when the tax cuts happened and what has transpired since then. Now tell me where the massive increase in food stamps happened and how that compares since to the unemployment rate.

166 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:44:14am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

With the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1% I would say it's had barely any effect on creating jobs.

That's not proof that its not working, it could just be proof proof that we're not spending enough on it.

Do you have at least a theory to suggest of why my economic theory is incorrect?

167 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:45:09am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

With the unemployment rate stuck at 9.1% I would say it's had barely any effect on creating jobs.

What an intellectually bankrupt argument, it's not like food stamps are a newly implemented policy that should have dramatically lowered the unemployment rate. Their mechanism for keeping it from getting worse though is ongoing, quite obvious and well understood. See Obdicut's #139

168 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:47:14am

re: #167 goddamnedfrank

What an intellectually bankrupt argument, it's not like food stamps are a newly implemented policy that should have dramatically lowered the unemployment rate. Their mechanism for keeping it from getting worse though is ongoing, quite obvious and well understood. See Obdicut's #139

He's either stupid or he knows that and just in troll mode.

169 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:48:16am

re: #168 recusancy

He's either stupid or he knows that and just in troll mode.

That's not necessarily an "or" situation is it?

170 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:49:06am

re: #169 jamesfirecat

That's not necessarily an "or" situation is it?

In this case I think it's one or the other.

171 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:51:13am

re: #170 recusancy

In this case I think it's one or the other.

Fair enough, we have stupid people on LGF, and we have trolls, but we have very few stupid trolls (at least not for very long)

172 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:52:51am

re: #167 goddamnedfrank

Not to mention that if the people who need food assistance get it, it leaves them with just a bit more income to spend on other things, which in turn has a stimulative effect on the economy. Brazil's president knew this:

Brazil's poor are rising to create a new middle class in the country and are contributing to the economic boom there. How has this happened? Rosenberg describes one social program that has made it all possible: giving money to the poor...The program, called Bolsa Familia (Family Grant) in Brazil, goes by different names in different places...The generic term for the program is conditional cash transfers. The idea is to give regular payments to poor families, in the form of cash or electronic transfers into their bank accounts, if they meet certain requirements.

Too bad the US is doing the exact opposite.

173 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:54:21am

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

The rate would be marginally higher if there were no food stamps - or reduced food stamp programs compared with current levels.

174 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:55:02am

re: #172 publicityStunted

Not to mention that if the people who need food assistance get it, it leaves them with just a bit more income to spend on other things, which in turn has a stimulative effect on the economy. Brazil's president knew this:

SOcialism! Seriously though, I've been reading that Lula, Brazil's president has gotten a lot of props due to the country rising as an economic power in South America. Interesting guy really in an even more interesting country.

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 2:57:29pm

re: #89 NJDhockeyfan

Everyone knows that Food Stamps have created jobs!

YEAH!

LET THEM STARVE LA LA LA

*republican gloating dance*

STARVE, LADY, STARVE HAY HAY

FUCK YOUR KIDS! LET 'EM EAT CAKE

*republican happy dance*

176 abolitionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 5:23:38pm

Galileo's only children, both female, were members of a nunnery near Silesia (sp?). The Church had him by the proverbial gonads.

The writings of one are available in a book, Galileo's Daughter --a book of letters.

177 RabbitRunner  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 6:16:43pm

in case you were wondering if Obama is the antichrist, here's another super informative link off of Whirled Nuts Daily front page

178 RabbitRunner  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 6:18:32pm

sorry [Link: www.teslasecret.net...]

179 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:15:15pm

Enh. I'm with Paul Feyerabend when it comes to Galileo.

180 groovimus  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 2:27:42pm

Well this is a fine how-dee-do. If you look at the historical record on Galileo he went round and round with the pope on the question of geocentrism. Charles thinks that it was a long dragged out fight with persecutors. Well did you know that the college of cardinals was OK with heliocentrism? I bet not, since this would blow the straw man setup of ignorant men of faith. The pope was not convinced but gave Galileo the OK to publish, which he did and inserted into the volume insults to the pope. Big mistake. The pope then responded, and committed a bigger mistake, taking a man's freedom, also as this now becomes the "story" repeated ad infinitum by materialists to "prove" the inherent irrationality of religion. Over all a sad, unfortunate playing out of egos. Now do you want a more recent episode of out-of-control ego ruling science? By necessity this involves "progressive" hiding of research implications. It happens a paper is on the way from CERN on a research program which proved that clouds in the upper atmosphere are seeded by cosmic rays. The impinging of cosmic rays into the upper atmosphere is modulated by the solar magnetic field; thus we have another mechanism to correct for the sun's variation in radiative power flux. And guess what brothers -- the researchers have been ordered from on high(scientific "popes") not to "interpret" the results. Now what the heck does that mean? The only thing coming to mind is a muffling of speculation as to "AGW" since all of the "AGW" studies cited by "progressives" are now shown to be majorly inadequate, not having accounted for this new regulatory mechanism. Big black eye for scientific freedom at the hands of the true believers. Here are links to the news stories on this:

www.theregister.co.uk%2F2011%2F08%2F25%2Fcern_cloud_cosmic_ray_first_results%2F&h=5AQAaGyWhAQC3nT4oJ_MZNubEceMKVweFfyLmlqnQh9tmhg

www.theregister.co.uk%2F2011%2F07%2F18%2Fcern_cosmic_ray_gag%2F&h=5AQAaGyWhAQCDMefPqZbANtGZTH0uoV0OQG6QZIMM6k1uJA

181 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 2:38:32pm

re: #180 groovimus

Yeah, I actually covered it being just as much politics as anything else earlier. Did you not bother to read the thread?

And yeah, the cloud thing is yet another bit of derpitude from climate deniers.

It was already used by another climate denier on these forums, so I've seen it already. Here is the skeptical science link debunking it.

[Link: www.skepticalscience.com...]

And here is the scientist who was in charge of the study commenting on it:

"At the moment, it actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate, but it's a very important first step"

182 groovimus  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 2:54:51pm

I think what was missed by the last poster was my main thrust, and that is that researchers have had their speech muzzled by the PC higher ups. Can you imagine? Want to comment? Kind of like a black eye for openness would you say? Now as for the paper cited in the debunk article and with fild strength graphed in Fig. 1 reproduced from that paper, the graph doesn't look flat at all, like the text says it is. Am I missing something?

183 b_sharp  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 2:58:13pm

re: #182 groovimus

I think what was missed by the last poster was my main thrust, and that is that researchers have had their speech muzzled by the PC higher ups. Can you imagine? Want to comment? Kind of like a black eye for openness would you say? Now as for the paper cited in the debunk article and with fild strength graphed in Fig. 1 reproduced from that paper, the graph doesn't look flat at all, like the text says it is. Am I missing something?

Who was muzzled and by whom? Do you have any evidence of that, or are you operating on WUWTish nonsense?

Do you have any evidence that current heating will stop before a new equilibrium is reached or that the new equilibrium is just around the corner?

184 b_sharp  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 3:02:03pm

re: #182 groovimus

Now as for the paper cited in the debunk article and with fild strength graphed in Fig. 1 reproduced from that paper, the graph doesn't look flat at all, like the text says it is. Am I missing something?

Have you taken the data and produced a linear trend line? Without doing that you don't know if it is flat or not.

185 b_sharp  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 3:03:33pm

Look here.

[Link: www.skepticalscience.com...]

186 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 3:06:36pm

re: #182 groovimus

I think what was missed by the last poster was my main thrust, and that is that researchers have had their speech muzzled by the PC higher ups.

But this isn't at all true. The paper is being published in Nature. And whey on earth would anyone want to muzzle this paper? The paper does absoluitely nothing to show that cosmic rays are causing global warming.

The paper, in fact, is another point in favor of CO2 being the cause of warming. We know that the conditions for cosmic ray being the source are not right. This paper doesn't change that. It's not even addressing that.


n reality, the CERN experiment only tests the bolded step in this list of requirements for cosmic rays to be causing global warming:

Solar magnetic field must be getting stronger
The number of cosmic rays reaching Earth must be dropping
Cosmic rays must successfully seed clouds, which requires:
Cosmic rays must trigger aerosol (liquid droplet) formation
These newly-formed aerosols must grow sufficiently through condensation to form cloud-condensation nuclei (CCN)
The CCN must lead to increased cloud formation
Cloud cover on Earth must be declining

In short, the CERN experiment only tested one-third of one out of four requirements to blame global warming on cosmic rays. Additionally scientists have measured solar activity and the number of cosmic rays reaching Earth, and neither meets the first two requirements listed above. Both solar magentic field strength and the number of cosmic rays reaching Earth have been flat over the past 50+ years (Figure 1).

187 b_sharp  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 3:26:12pm

Where did Chicken Little go?

188 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 5:06:42pm

re: #180 groovimus

Your stupid right wing anti-science talking point has already been debunked here, by people who actually understand what the CERN CLOUD project is all about: Climate Change Denial Blogs in Fail Mode Again.

Try to keep up, and you might not embarrass yourself by gloating over something that's already been conclusively shown to be bogus.

189 jaunte  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 5:14:12pm
"researchers have had their speech muzzled by the PC higher ups"

The PC higher-ups must be using the special magical muzzles that prevent the oppressed researchers from appearing on Fox News or doing guest columns for NRO, or special rush-to-publication tell-all books in which they bust open the whole conspiracy.

190 groovimus  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 8:02:13pm

"Your stupid right wing anti-science talking point has already been debunked here, by people who actually understand ..."

Wow beautiful, the brother is so full of fellow-feeling. I got up this morning and was wondering if I was going to say something really stupid and I got the definitive answer. Pretty amazing for just relating what I read in a couple of reports.

I would say that maybe you guys don't get what the extreme pejorative stance frequently encountered on this thread says about the confidence in your positions.

Now it seems that the two links I copied got corrupted. I will say it again. The researchers on the project have been muzzled as in a GAG ORDER. I will quote from the piece:

"The chief of the world's leading physics lab at CERN in Geneva has prohibited scientists from drawing conclusions from a major experiment"

This comes not from me dreaming up stupid right wing talking points, it comes from me quoting a news piece, right? Elementary no?

Here is the link you may as well look at it to see if I'm making up a stupid point:

[Link: www.theregister.co.uk...]


So far as climate models needing revision - why is this not plain as day from the following? I'm just quoting from the piece:


[Link: www.theregister.co.uk...]

QUOTE:

Climate models will have to be revised, confirms CERN in supporting literature (pdf):

"[I]t is clear that the treatment of aerosol formation in climate models will need to be substantially revised, since all models assume that nucleation is caused by these vapours [sulphuric acid and ammonia] and water alone"

So obdicut #186 all this muzzling is not about stopping the publication, it is about a GAG ORDER on discussing the findings. Pretty embarrassing for open science wouldn't you say? And I never discussed the causes of warming of any kind. All I discussed was the climate models eventually having to be revised to account for findings in this field. It says it right there in the report. I'm just relating to you guys what I read, no need to get all pejoratived up at me for this, right?

191 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 11:10:19pm

My patience for smug right wing climate change denying trolls is all gone.

192 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 10, 2011 2:42:44am

re: #190 groovimus

You're just ignoring what I write, aren't you? You didn't bother to follow the skeptical science links or anything?

You want to selectively quote from the report-- changing climate models is nothing new, since no one thinks they're perfect. Doesn't mean they're not accurate-- but you really, really want to ignore what the scientists who did the study say about it:

"At the moment, it actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate, but it's a very important first step"


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