Rick Perry Loses No Sleep Over His Kill Record

Execution record holder sleeps like baby
Politics • Views: 27,677

And then we have the other memorable Rick Perry moment from last night’s debate, when he boasted that he’s “never struggled” with the fact that he holds the record for the most executions presided over by any modern governor: 234.

This provoked enthusiastic cheers from the conservative audience, which is unfortunately not surprising.

Youtube Video

While Rick Perry has been governor, at least 41 people convicted of crimes have been exonerated by DNA evidence, but he sleeps the sleep of the just.

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160 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:30:50am

So much for "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer,"

2 jaunte  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:31:58am

7 minutes ago:

@brandigrissom:
RT by TexasTribune
Past forensic commission chair Sam Bassett says Perry worked to shelve Willingham investigation. Video to come on texastribune.org.

3 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:32:50am

Over his ten year reign that's 1 every 16 days.

4 JRCMYP  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:33:58am

The clapping in response is appalling.

5 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:34:17am

Of course he doesn't. He's gotta be "tough on crime" and if that means a few innocents get executed, it was worth it. Seriously, I understand why people support the death penalty even if I am adamantly opposed. I do not however understand why people like Perry want to rush in to executions. These are human lives at stake here and even one executed innocent is a tragedy and a blight.

6 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:34:58am

Remember: The gub'mint is everything that is wrong with America and cannot be trusted to do anything right...unless it involves kicking down doors with SWAT teams and putting people to death. That's what Jesus said in the Book of Texilonians, chapter 1 verses 3-8.

7 jaunte  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:36:11am
8 Louis  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:36:30am

I'm no fan of Rick Perry, I find some of his religious views disturbing, however there is a difference between having 41 persons who were convicted exonerated and having 41 people who were executed exonerated. After all, Perry didn't prosecute them nor find them guilty. If someone is prosecuted and convicted and later exonerated, how does that reflect on Perry? (assuming they weren't executed).

9 Lidane  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:37:08am

re: #4 JRCMYP

The clapping in response is appalling.

The clapping in response has been the GOP base's MO for ages now.

10 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:37:12am

re: #6 celticdragon

Remember: The gub'mint is everything that is wrong with America and cannot be trusted to do anything right...unless it involves kicking down doors with SWAT teams and putting people to death. That's what Jesus said in the Book of Texilonians, chapter 1 verses 3-8.

No I think is was in the First Letter to the Chuck Norrisians

11 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:38:01am

Remember, government bad when used to help people get a leg up but government good being used to kill people.

12 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:39:09am

re: #8 Louis
He has the power to grant a stay of execution or communte a sentence if there is any reasonable doubt.
But Perry does not plague himself with doubts over the life-or-death judgements made by Texas juries, and prosecutors know that he will not second-guess them, which makes them all the more interested in showing how tough they can be and making themselves look like they are efficient and tough on crime.

13 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:39:50am

re: #8 Louis

I'm no fan of Rick Perry, I find some of his religious views disturbing, however there is a difference between having 41 persons who were convicted exonerated and having 41 people who were executed exonerated. After all, Perry didn't prosecute them nor find them guilty. If someone is prosecuted and convicted and later exonerated, how does that reflect on Perry? (assuming they weren't executed).

One was definitely exonerated after execution. He has the authority to stay the execution until that evidence is brought. He new is was close to being brought.

14 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:40:38am

That response, the cheering from the audience, is part of the reason I oppose the death penalty.

15 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:40:39am

re: #8 Louis

I'm no fan of Rick Perry, I find some of his religious views disturbing, however there is a difference between having 41 persons who were convicted exonerated and having 41 people who were executed exonerated. After all, Perry didn't prosecute them nor find them guilty. If someone is prosecuted and convicted and later exonerated, how does that reflect on Perry? (assuming they weren't executed).

Didn't the governor open deny stay of executions to some of those people?

(A quick google search confirms that he very much did in at least one case)

16 Lidane  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:40:42am

re: #7 jaunte

Perry 'squashed' Texas execution probe, ex-official says

This needs to be hung around Perry's neck like a goddamn anchor.

If he knowingly executed an innocent man and actively tried to squash an investigation into the man's case, he doesn't deserve to be dog catcher, much less POTUS. There is nothing honorable in knowingly executing the innocent.

17 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:41:08am

Well, it's true that Perry didn't prosecute those guys or sentence them to death. however, he is the one that signs the execution warrant and arguably if there's even a possibility of innocence, the governor should be looking at the evidence in the case rather than ignoring it so he can look "tough." And Perry did do this in that one case. He's a moral coward in my eyes.

18 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:43:19am

re: #16 Lidane

This needs to be hung around Perry's neck like a goddamn anchor.

If he knowingly executed an innocent man and actively tried to squash an investigation into the man's case, he doesn't deserve to be dog catcher, much less POTUS.

It sounds to me like he deserves to win an election by a vote to win a free trip to a government owned facility where he'll get free room and board, not to mention an excellent library and workout room. (I mean there has to be something illegal about acting like that!)

19 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:44:54am

re: #8 Louis

Because he supports the death penalty, which means he supports it in an environment where he knows that the innocent are convicted.

So, it's an inevitability that innocent people will be executed.

I can only respect someone's stance on the death penalty if they can acknowledge that fact.

20 blueraven  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:46:51am

I have a prediction:

Just purely based on a hunch, that Perry will drop out of this race before Iowa. He will make an excuse that he is needed in TX. or something...
I dont think he has the chops to go all the way.

21 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:46:52am

re: #16 Lidane

This needs to be hung around Perry's neck like a goddamn anchor.

If he knowingly executed an innocent man and actively tried to squash an investigation into the man's case, he doesn't deserve to be dog catcher, much less POTUS.

I had a real bad feeling about Bush's character after I heard he mocked Karla Faye Tucker who was on death row at the time. She may well have deserved her legal fate, but she most certainly did not deserve to have the governor openly abrogate his most solumn and serious duty in office and then joke about it on the campaign bus.

I knew right then that something was broken in him. I didn't really grasp how badly it was broken until much later after I held my nose and voted for him. I will never really forgive myself for that, and I fully believe I may have to apologize to Ms. Tucker at some point as well, because I knew her plea was a warning, and I still did not heed it.

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:47:30am

A bit OT, but it sums up the knee-jerk fear and loathing to all things islamic that has permeated the political debate in this country (and will reach a new spike in coming days)

Attempt at creating a Muslim GOP Caucus meets opposition from within the party

[Link: www.salon.com...]

23 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:48:05am

Too many conservatives, like the dupes applauding last night, are in love with the idea of state-sponsored death.

Besides, those types feel the only kinds of "people" are the not/neverborn, and corporations, anyway.

That mentality dehumanizes themselves, but we're talking about fundamentally self-hating people, who seem to want to be punished just for livin', themselves.

re: #5 HappyWarrior

Of course he doesn't. He's gotta be "tough on crime" and if that means a few innocents get executed, it was worth it. Seriously, I understand why people support the death penalty even if I am adamantly opposed. I do not however understand why people like Perry want to rush in to executions. These are human lives at stake here and even one executed innocent is a tragedy and a blight.

24 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:48:10am

re: #21 celticdragon

I had a real bad feeling about Bush's character after I heard he mocked Karla Faye Tucker who was on death row at the time. She may well have deserved her legal fate, but she most certainly did not deserve to have the governor openly abrogate his most solumn and serious duty in office and then joke about it on the campaign bus.

I knew right then that something was broken in him. I didn't really grasp how badly it was broken until much later after I held my nose and voted for him. I will never really forgive myself for that, and I fully believe I may have to apologize to Ms. Tucker at some point as well, because I knew her plea was a warning, and I still did not heed it.

That was one of the first things I ever read about him. Gave me a real uncomfortable feeling about him. The interesting thing abotu that story is the guy interviewing him was I believe Tucker Carlson.

25 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:48:54am

re: #22 ralphieboy

Heh! Under Bush the Elder I remember everyone sagely talking about how the Muslims were the next big GOP voting bloc and how they'd shift the country in a more conservative direction.

Didn't count on the huge amount of xenophobia and racism in the GOP getting stronger, rather than weaker, with time.

26 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:49:29am

These exonerations are the greatest argument against the death penalty. Think back now to all of the people that were executed before the science of DNA was established. Think of those people who were executed yet never given a chance to prove their innocence through DNA testing. There is no doubt in my mind that many innocent men and women were put to death since the founding of this nation.

27 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:49:51am

Given the opportunity, some will even celebrate it, openly.

re: #19 Obdicut

Because he supports the death penalty, which means he supports it in an environment where he knows that the innocent are convicted.

So, it's an inevitability that innocent people will be executed.

I can only respect someone's stance on the death penalty if they can acknowledge that fact.

28 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:49:54am

You know, it would be interesting to see someone like Rick Perry get born again, for real...

29 recusancy  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:50:19am

re: #25 Obdicut

Heh! Under Bush the Elder I remember everyone sagely talking about how the Muslims were the next big GOP voting bloc and how they'd shift the country in a more conservative direction.

Didn't count on the huge amount of xenophobia and racism in the GOP getting stronger, rather than weaker, with time.

Yup. They were actually moving that way until after about 2002-03. Same thing with hispanics.

30 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:51:40am

More background here.

In the year following her execution, conservative commentator Tucker Carlson questioned Governor George W. Bush about how the Board of Pardons and Parole had arrived at the determination on her clemency plea. Carlson alleged that Bush, alluding to a televised interview which Karla Faye Tucker had given to talk show host Larry King, smirked and spoke mockingly about her.[13] Bush himself later denied this.

Tucker gained international attention because she would be the first woman to be executed in Texas since the Civil War and the first in the United States since 1984. Italian President Oscar Luigi Scalfaro noted in a public speech that capital punishment supporters outside a Texas prison had cheered when Tucker was executed. "And we are on the threshold of 2,000 years of Christ!" he exclaimed. In England, Bishop Richard Harries of the Diocese of Oxford reported that a Gospel singer's rendition of "Amazing Grace" was shouted down by cries of "Kill the bitch!" from the pro-death penalty crowd that gathered outside of the prison.

31 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:52:36am

Christian Love TM, Teabag Style - as opposed to the what some hippie named Jesus said had something to do with forgiveness.

32 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:52:40am

re: #25 Obdicut

Heh! Under Bush the Elder I remember everyone sagely talking about how the Muslims were the next big GOP voting bloc and how they'd shift the country in a more conservative direction.

Didn't count on the huge amount of xenophobia and racism in the GOP getting stronger, rather than weaker, with time.

I have an interesting anecdotal story about Muslims and the GOP. The 2000 election was the year I took 8th grade Civics. So, naturally the election was something being talked about a bit on the bus. People were asking each other who they supported and stuff. And I just remember a Syrian American classmate of mine preferring Bush over Gore. I was a Gore backer then. Didn't work on the campaign any but what's interesting anyhow when I talked to the guy four-five years later, the guy was very anti Bush and GOP. I can't imagine what he thinks now given the GOP's continued pandering to anti Muslim bigotry. I had my beefs with Bush but he didn't act like American Muslims were disloyal.

33 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:53:50am

re: #29 recusancy

We would have been so much better off with that version of the GOP. A GOP with muslims and Hispanics-- both groups that are quite conservative in many ways-- would, I think, have to be open and inclusive enough to be a party of sane, compromise conservatism. They'd have sidelined the Birchers and the nativists, and would probably cut into the Democrats by doing so. The need to compromise between Catholic and Protestant alone would produce much saner aspects on separation of church and state. Having a large number of immigrants who actually understand the issue would lead to a saner immigration policy.

They'd probably be quite successful and our country would be significantly more 'conservative' than I'd like in some ways, but I think that it would be so much better than today.

34 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:54:14am

As a direct recipient of it, I definitely did.

I expect the same with sexism and antifemale hate when the first woman is elected, too.

re: #25 Obdicut

Heh! Under Bush the Elder I remember everyone sagely talking about how the Muslims were the next big GOP voting bloc and how they'd shift the country in a more conservative direction.

Didn't count on the huge amount of xenophobia and racism in the GOP getting stronger, rather than weaker, with time.

35 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:54:44am

re: #23 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Too many conservatives, like the dupes applauding last night, are in love with the idea of state-sponsored death.

Besides, those types feel the only kinds of "people" are the not/neverborn, and corporations, anyway.

That mentality dehumanizes themselves, but we're talking about fundamentally self-hating people, who seem to want to be punished just for livin', themselves.

Many of these same people have a flippant attitude regarding collateral damage in wartime. They casually argue -- with no remorse, doubt or empathy -- that killing innocent civilians and even children is "unavoidable" during wartime. Or they use the typical excuse that these innocents died because they were being used as "human shields". No remorse. No doubt. No empathy. No introspection. Only cheers and a "fuck yeah!"

36 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:55:52am

re: #33 Obdicut

Eh. Conservative is conservative, and in a country whose political spectrum is "right-of-center" to more developed countries, this was probably what "conservative" would have revealed itself to be anyway.

37 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:56:34am

re: #34 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

As a direct recipient of it, I definitely did.
.

Why would being a direct recipient of it make you feel it would grow stronger than weaker over time? It had grown weaker, for awhile. Bush made actual inroads with Hispanics.

I don't think that the GOP's complete turn towards white nativism was inevitable. Likely, yeah, but they could have purged themselves-- the Democrats managed it.

38 bratwurst  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:57:44am

Per the 2006 statistics Texas had the 15th highest rate of violent crime in the nation. Hate to imagine where they would be without that ultra effective deterrent!

39 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:58:54am

re: #26 Gus 802

DNA evidence is indeed one of the great leaps forward in forensics and criminal procedure and the justice system. And the next leap may be coming - as studies are increasingly showing witness testimony to be unreliable and that leads to even more weight being given to DNA and forensics.

There's no doubt that forensics and DNA have not only exonerated many who were wrongfully imprisoned, but have helped catch criminals who might otherwise have gone on committing crimes but for being caught with DNA evidence.

Sad thing is that in some states and localities, there is a backlog of cases that require testing and haven't been carried out; such testing isn't cheap, but it can help tie crimes together, break cases, and/or exonerate others.

40 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:59:15am

Notice in the video that Perry actually smiles when he hears the start of the question.

He actually boasts about taking lives. Saying that he never even struggles with the moral issues is the mark of a true fanatic.

41 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:00:16pm

re: #36 laZardo

I really dislike that you're simultaneously painting with a broad brush and using a narrow spectrum.

There's far more than just right and left to a political issue. It's a binary attribution which is relatively meaningless.

I think that the behavior of the GOP recently has poisoned the very concept of 'conservative' for a lot of people, but there's nothing inherently wrong with (non-social) conservatism. What we have these days is 'conservatives' who deny reality. Reality-denial isn't a default part of conservatism.

42 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:01:21pm

Rick Perry is Judge Dredd.

43 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:01:26pm

"Never struggled." What a cold and callous zealot. I wonder how anyone can attain such perfection. Such arrogance. Such inhumanity.

44 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:02:13pm

re: #42 Charles

Rick Perry is Judge Dredd.

TWENTY YEARS!

45 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:02:29pm

OT but still in regards to Perry, I was watching the debate with some friends last night and my one friend pointed out that Perry looks like Josh Brolin who played Bush in W. I had to agree and it's funny since I've read that some have said that G.W Bush's folksy mannerisms as a politician were inspired by Perry.

46 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:02:33pm

re: #41 Obdicut

I really dislike that you're simultaneously painting with a broad brush and using a narrow spectrum.

There's far more than just right and left to a political issue. It's a binary attribution which is relatively meaningless.

I think that the behavior of the GOP recently has poisoned the very concept of 'conservative' for a lot of people, but there's nothing inherently wrong with (non-social) conservatism. What we have these days is 'conservatives' who deny reality. Reality-denial isn't a default part of conservatism.

I don't like to use a one-dimensional political axis, is all.

I think what has been construed as "non-social conservatism" is really something more of sane lowercase-L libertarianism (which definitely has been poisoned by the uppercase-L party and a certain crazy uncle using it as a base for real authoritarian conservatism). Conservatism - at least in the American sense - denies reality as a basic tenet, or rather denies the fact that time moves forward, not backward.

47 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:02:54pm

re: #40 Charles

Notice in the video that Perry actually smiles when he hears the start of the question.

He actually boasts about taking lives. Saying that he never even struggles with the moral issues is the mark of a true fanatic.

God help us. You are right.

48 mr.fusion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:02:56pm

Thought ED Kain put it best:

(via Sully)

[W]hen Perry is asked about the two-hundred and thirty some people he’s executed on death row during his governorship, the audience bursts into applause. Torture, war, and death, and this is the “pro-life” party. I submit to you that this moment is perhaps the most telling since George W. Bush left office; that the modern Republican party is not only intellectually bankrupt, but morally bankrupt as well.

49 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:04:06pm

New Libyan government cancels $4bln dollar arms deal

Libya’s rebel governing body does not plan to buy weapons from Russia because the country will not need them in the future. The estimated amount of all signed and planned military contracts of Gaddafi’s government with Russia was $4 billion.

The business deals signed under the ousted Libyan leader will be reviewed, according to Mustafa Abdul Jalil, chair of the National Transitional Council (NTC), which heads the rebel forces.

“We respect all deals with other nations, but they will all be reviewed, since many of the deals were signed thanks to corruption,” the former Justice Minister under Gaddafi said on Thursday in an interview with RIA Novosti news agency.

He said price terms of many of the contracts are too high, and such contracts will be subject to alteration. Among Gaddafi’s deals, which apparently will not be accepted by the new Libyan administration, are multibillion-dollar arms deals with Russia.

“Libya in the future will not need arms,” Abdul Jalil said.

50 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:05:10pm
51 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:05:42pm

re: #48 mr.fusion

Thought ED Kain put it best:

(via Sully)

It is the culmination of Puritan/Calvinist morality and the fallacy of Just World Theory.

52 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:05:44pm

re: #46 laZardo

But conservatism doesn't have to mean 'not moving forwards'. It was supposed to mean, it traditionally meant 'not changing for the sake of changing and changing with care'. It's a modern meaning that it means going back to some mythical past.

For example: I'm in favor of privatizing the entire prison system, though making it heavily regulated, and tying the payments to the prison to recidivism. I think that's the only way for us to actually get to rehabilitative prisons. I don't think the government will ever do so on its own.

Is that 'conservative' or 'liberal' position of mine? My goal is shorter sentences and more people returned to productive work. My means is privatization.

53 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:06:16pm

re: #32 HappyWarrior

I can't imagine what he thinks now given the GOP's continued pandering to anti Muslim bigotry. I had my beefs with Bush but he didn't act like American Muslims were disloyal.

No, he didn't and he spoke out against that kind of scapegoating. NOBODY listened.

But I can definitely imagine what your friend might be thinking these days. I can't think of anything more personally liberating than being a minority who is also an ex-conservative. I wish him well on the path.

54 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:07:40pm

re: #52 Obdicut

But conservatism doesn't have to mean 'not moving forwards'. It was supposed to mean, it traditionally meant 'not changing for the sake of changing and changing with care'. It's a modern meaning that it means going back to some mythical past.

For example: I'm in favor of privatizing the entire prison system, though making it heavily regulated, and tying the payments to the prison to recidivism. I think that's the only way for us to actually get to rehabilitative prisons. I don't think the government will ever do so on its own.

Is that 'conservative' or 'liberal' position of mine? My goal is shorter sentences and more people returned to productive work. My means is privatization.

Privatizing prisons inevitably incentivizes getting more people into prisons in order to increase revenue.

55 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:07:55pm

re: #48 mr.fusion

Thought ED Kain put it best:

(via Sully)

The official Republican Party theme song...

56 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:08:56pm

re: #36 laZardo

Eh. Conservative is conservative, and in a country whose political spectrum is "right-of-center" to more developed countries, this was probably what "conservative" would have revealed itself to be anyway.

It's always revealed itself to us as that. It's that way by design.

57 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:09:00pm

re: #54 celticdragon

Privatizing prisons inevitably incentivizes getting more people into prisons in order to increase revenue.

Did you notice how I said tying the payments to recidivism?

58 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:09:14pm

re: #52 Obdicut

But conservatism doesn't have to mean 'not moving forwards'. It was supposed to mean, it traditionally meant 'not changing for the sake of changing and changing with care'. It's a modern meaning that it means going back to some mythical past.

For example: I'm in favor of privatizing the entire prison system, though making it heavily regulated, and tying the payments to the prison to recidivism. I think that's the only way for us to actually get to rehabilitative prisons. I don't think the government will ever do so on its own.

Is that 'conservative' or 'liberal' position of mine? My goal is shorter sentences and more people returned to productive work. My means is privatization.

The definition of conservative and liberal - or more accurately, regressive and progressive - changes with time. It was once progressive to think that that more people other than land-owning white males should have the ability to vote.

With that in mind, I would think a more "progressive" form of our so-called prison system would have a much more developed rehab infrastructure (perhaps tied to single-payer). Privatization for prisons, like health-care, makes it a profit industry. And when people decide that the only way to get healthcare is to get it in prison, well...

59 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:09:54pm

re: #53 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No, he didn't and he spoke out against that kind of scapegoating. NOBODY listened.

But I can definitely imagine what your friend might be thinking these days. I can't think of anything more personally liberating than being a minority who is also an ex-conservative. I wish him well on the path.

The funny thing for me, a Bush critic mind you was pointing out to people who voted for him and that said bigoted crap about Muslims was that Bush thought enough of Zalmay Khalilzad, an Afgahni born Sunni Muslim to make him ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the UN. I had my beefs with Bush but I never saw him degrade or scapegoat the Muslim people. But yeah I hope he's doing well too. Haven't seen him since we graduated.

60 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:10:22pm

re: #58 laZardo

Did you notice how I said tying the payments to recidivism?

61 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:11:37pm

re: #57 Obdicut

Did you notice how I said tying the payments to recidivism?

Yes, but that will not happen. Nobody will bet their business model on that kind of outcome. Maybe 35 years ago when rehabilitation was still a priority, but not now. Now, we demand punsihment and joke about men being gang raped in the shower.

62 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:12:09pm

re: #54 celticdragon

Privatizing prisons inevitably incentivizes getting more people into prisons in order to increase revenue.

Yes. I forgot the article but apparently some of the private prison interests lobby for increased prison penalties.

63 mr.fusion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:12:24pm

Personally, I'm not against the death penalty in cases where there is absolutely no question of the heinous crime that took place. Jeffrey Dahmer and John Couey come to mind.......

But if even one person is wrongfully put to death it should be cause for serious reflection. Hell, even if the person was 100% guilty and I were Gov and didn't grant clemency or whatever.......it should still be cause for serious introspection.

And for the number of executions to get applause? When it's known that innocents have been put to death under Perry's watch and accusations are flying that he hindered an investigation over whether or not someone was innocent when they were killed? That's immoral, unconscionable, and really just a disgusting attitude. Beyond the pale.

64 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:12:35pm

re: #54 celticdragon

Privatizing prisons inevitably incentivizes getting more people into prisons in order to increase revenue.

I'm with you on that one!

The only way it could possibly work would be if pay was based off of how many inamtes were successfully rehabilitated, and there would be no way to judge that till after the fact....

So we're better off just staying THE HELL AWAY from paying companies to lock people up.

65 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:12:41pm

re: #60 Obdicut

Did you notice how I said tying the payments to recidivism?

Yes, but that's really beside the point. A private prison industry will fight that clause if that would mean less profit for them.

66 tomg51spence  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:12:47pm

re: #35 Gus 802

Many of these same people have a flippant attitude regarding collateral damage in wartime. They casually argue -- with no remorse, doubt or empathy -- that killing innocent civilians and even children is "unavoidable" during wartime. Or they use the typical excuse that these innocents died because they were being used as "human shields". No remorse. No doubt. No empathy. No introspection. Only cheers and a "fuck yeah!"

I can't imagine anyone with a flippant attitude toward death, even in war.
The only current war I am aware of where there appears to be "No remorse. No doubt. No empathy. No introspection. Only cheers and a "fuck yeah!" for the killing of civilians is with those who target Israelis.

67 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:13:13pm

Here's one...

Private Prisons Lobby for Harsher Sentences

Posted on: June 29, 2011 9:55 AM, by Ed Brayton

If you're looking for one of the reasons why the United States imprisons more people -- by miles -- than any other nation, you can look to the development of private prisons as a means of making some people rich. Those people spend millions of dollars to lobby elected officials to do two things: Convert government-run prisons to private prisons, and lock up more people for longer periods of time. Because that makes them even richer.

A new study by the Justice Policy Institute reaches exactly that conclusion and documents it thoroughly.

Continues.

68 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:13:42pm

The private prisons idea scares the shit outta me after reading what happened in Pa. Call me a commie or whatever but there are some things that should never be for profit.

69 jaunte  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:13:50pm

Fact Checking Perry on Border Violence Claim

Gov. Rick Perry repeated a familiar claim at the GOP debate Wednesday at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library. Texas' border cities, he said, are unsafe because the federal government has failed to secure the U.S.-Mexican border.
.......
There's no question that drug-related violence on the Mexican side of the border is rampant. But, in general, that violence has not migrated north. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report, El Paso, with an estimated population of 625,000, had just five homicides in 2010. Across the border in Ciudad Juárez, the number of homicides exceeded 3,000.

By comparison, the state capital city of Austin, with a population of about 796,000, had 38 homicides in 2010. In fact, according to the FBI's data, the number of 2010 homicides in the border cities of Brownsville (seven) Laredo (nine) and McAllen (five) combined didn’t exceed Austin’s total.

70 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:14:35pm

re: #67 Gus 802

Here's one...

Private Prisons Lobby for Harsher Sentences

Or cut out the middle man and just bribe a judge to send people to the prison.

71 Louis  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:14:45pm

I agree with those who responded to my original post. If Perry presided over an execution when there was doubt as to the guilt of the convicted, and he was later exonerated, then Perry can be called to account for his actions.

72 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:14:59pm

re: #52 Obdicut

For example: I'm in favor of privatizing the entire prison system, though making it heavily regulated, and tying the payments to the prison to recidivism.

An adequately cynical person would expect this to result in recidivism being "addressed" by making sure that nobody who enters a prison for whatever reason is ever released.

73 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:15:13pm

re: #61 celticdragon

I know it's a pipedream. It's a total fantasy.

My point is that that position of mine is very hard to classify as liberal or conservative. I have no desire to punish criminals, only to rehabilitate. I'm choosing a method that most would call conservative as the one I think (rightly or wrongly) is the best way, and for pragmatic reasons not ideological ones.

And I want to change society radically, in terms of vastly dropping the number of people in prison (needless to say, I want marijuana and some other softer drugs legalized) and making felons more accepted in the general populace.

I'm just using it as an example of how little a 'conservative/liberal' divide really gets to. How flattened out our politics have become-- because the current crop of 'conservatives' are distorting the space-time continuum with the gravity of their suckage.

74 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:15:39pm

re: #70 jamesfirecat

Or cut out the middle man and just bribe a judge to send people to the prison.

I read that story. Man, I hope those judges are in prison for a long time. They ruined lives and for what, money?

75 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:15:46pm

re: #62 Gus 802

Yes. I forgot the article but apparently some of the private prison interests lobby for increased prison penalties.

Check out these Pa judges who were getting kickbacks to send kids to prison.

WILKES-BARRE, Pa. — For years, the juvenile court system in Wilkes-Barre operated like a conveyor belt: Youngsters were brought before judges without a lawyer, given hearings that lasted only a minute or two, and then sent off to juvenile prison for months for minor offenses.

The explanation, prosecutors say, was corruption on the bench.

In one of the most shocking cases of courtroom graft on record, two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with taking millions of dollars in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers.

“I’ve never encountered, and I don’t think that we will in our lifetimes, a case where literally thousands of kids’ lives were just tossed aside in order for a couple of judges to make some money,” said Marsha Levick, an attorney with the Philadelphia-based Juvenile Law Center, which is representing hundreds of youths sentenced in Wilkes-Barre.

76 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:16:13pm

re: #63 mr.fusion

Personally, I'm not against the death penalty in cases where there is absolutely no question of the heinous crime that took place. Jeffrey Dahmer and John Couey come to mind...

Jeffrey Dahmer was executed, just not by the state.

77 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:17:28pm

I'd love to see his reaction if Gov. Perry or those that applauded actually had to pull the trigger. Most likely they'd be like Himmler when he actually saw an execution, turn as green as old meat, go somewhere and puke their guts out.

Much easier to kill symbols than people.

78 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:17:51pm

re: #40 Charles

Being Governor Perry means never having to say you're sorry. Perry was probably also figuring that the question was a trap to relate back to the Pawlenty and Huckabee situations.

Pawlenty pardoned a convicted child molester (who married his victim as it turned out), but the molester ended up getting arrested again - molesting his own daughter 250+ times.

Huckabee commuted the sentence of Maurice Clemmons, who ended up killing four Seattle-area police officers in November 2009. Huckabee had made Clemmons eligible for parole. He also allowed for the early release of convicted rapist Wayne DuMond, who murdered a woman after being paroled. In at least one of those instances, Huckabee's religious views informed the decision to push for early release.

So, rather than worry about those situations, Perry's going to kill 'em all even if the facts don't support the conviction.

79 mr.fusion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:18:20pm

re: #69 jaunte

Fact Checking Perry on Border Violence Claim

I loved that

Obama says that El-Paso is a safe city and the Governor of that state calls him a liar on a national stage. Wonder what the El-Paso Chamber of Commerce thought of that statement?

80 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:18:43pm

re: #65 laZardo

Yes, but that's really beside the point. A private prison industry will fight that clause if that would mean less profit for them.

It'd not besides the point if I'm using it as an example to say that it's something I"d want, dude. I'm attempting to communicate something, not argue about the pragmatics or doability of what I want. I know it's a complete fantasy. It'll never happen.

My point is that if you just flat-out deride all conservatives, anyone who thinks of themselves as a conservative is going to get caught up in that-- even if you might not consider them a conservative, or if they're really just a pragmatist, etc.

I'm fine with very harsh condemnation of what passes for conservatives in the GOP and their supporters. They're radical minarchists. But there are some people who reject them precisely because they themselves are conservatives, and they see this gang of socons to be wild radicals.

81 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:18:59pm

re: #66 tomg51spence

I can't imagine anyone with a flippant attitude toward death, even in war.
The only current war I am aware of where there appears to be "No remorse. No doubt. No empathy. No introspection. Only cheers and a "fuck yeah!" for the killing of civilians is with those who target Israelis.

Well. We see things differently. But I was talking about the United States or some Americans and not the same as the response in the Middle East when Israeli civilians are killed. Which is a whole other level of crazy.

82 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:19:02pm

re: #75 celticdragon

Check out these Pa judges who were getting kickbacks to send kids to prison.

I hope all involved can get second chances with their lives. Terrible what happened. Simply terrible.

83 jaunte  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:19:35pm

re: #79 mr.fusion

It's another example (of many) that Rick Perry doesn't care if he hurts his constituents, he's only in it for himself.

84 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:20:52pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

I hope all involved can get second chances with their lives. Terrible what happened. Simply terrible.

Hillary Transue, who was sentenced to a wilderness camp for building a spoof MySpace page that lampooned her assistant principal in White Haven, Pa., on Friday. Transue says she did not have an attorney, nor was she informed of her right to one, when she was sentenced by Luzerne County Judge Mark Ciavarella.

Unless there is a pardon and the records are sealed, this will follow these kids until they die.

85 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:21:47pm

re: #75 celticdragon

Which is why we need heavy, honest, and good regulation of the prisons, whether they're private or public. Because the public prisons are not significantly better.

The fact that felons cannot vote and most have difficulty voting after makes them an incredibly easy group to marginalize. Prosecutors who use a high conviction rate as a stepping-stone to a political career are also a sick part of it.

86 Golden Jerusalem  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:22:44pm

Splintered GOP + 3rd party votes lost = Dem victory

Less Hussein Obama declares an islamic state.

In which case I guess it's civil war then.

87 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:23:46pm
88 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:24:00pm

Uh-oh. Paulbot rage against Perry is about to reach volcanic proportions.

Drudge: UP IN HIS FACE: PERRY GETS AGGRESSIVE...

To wingnuts, appearing on Drudge is second only to being handed down from the throne of God, and I'm not even sure about that.

(h/t Zora)

89 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:24:11pm
90 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:25:10pm

re: #35 Gus 802

Many of these same people have a flippant attitude regarding collateral damage in wartime. They casually argue -- with no remorse, doubt or empathy -- that killing innocent civilians and even children is "unavoidable" during wartime. Or they use the typical excuse that these innocents died because they were being used as "human shields". No remorse. No doubt. No empathy. No introspection. Only cheers and a "fuck yeah!"

Totally depraved and sociopathic.

91 albusteve  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:25:33pm

re: #89 Gus 802

Oh brother.

a little mix up....nothing to it

92 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:25:40pm

re: #85 Obdicut

Which is why we need heavy, honest, and good regulation of the prisons, whether they're private or public. Because the public prisons are not significantly better.

The fact that felons cannot vote and most have difficulty voting after makes them an incredibly easy group to marginalize. Prosecutors who use a high conviction rate as a stepping-stone to a political career are also a sick part of it.

Yeah somedays I wonder how things could get worse...

OJBECTION!

Well at least's we're TAKE THAT Japan

93 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:27:04pm

re: #92 jamesfirecat

Wow. I did not know that. Holy crap.

94 Golden Jerusalem  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:27:43pm

re: #88 Shiplord Kirel
oh oh a veteran. How are you sir?

No, srs bout the first part, doubt Hussein Obamas gonna go for a sharia law state just now

95 tomg51spence  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:28:16pm

re: #81 Gus 802

Agreed.

96 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:31:42pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

And you even contemplate the President declaring the US an Islamic state being named in the future why?

Sorry if my sarcasm meter isn't working there... it's been on the fritz of late.

97 theheat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:32:43pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

Less Hussein Obama declares an islamic state.

Is that the best you can fucking bring?

98 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:32:45pm
99 laZardo  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:33:45pm

re: #98 Charles

Image: sleeper.jpg

DUN DUN DUNNN~

100 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:33:55pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

Lol.

102 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:34:49pm

re: #98 Charles

103 albusteve  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:35:44pm

re: #102 lawhawk

shoot...I was hoping to see the Orgasmatron again

104 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:37:00pm

re: #94 Golden Jerusalem

Beware the black Shariah helicopter lurking under your bed.

105 blueraven  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:37:46pm

re: #79 mr.fusion

I loved that

Obama says that El-Paso is a safe city and the Governor of that state calls him a liar on a national stage. Wonder what the El-Paso Chamber of Commerce thought of that statement?

Yeah, wonder if Fox and right wing blogs and talk radio will go after him for that. /

You know like they did for an offhand comment by Obama that corporations that took TARP money shouldn't be holding big parties coventions in Las Vegas. To this day, people like Steve Wynn blame Obama for LV economic woes.
Not that they overbuilt there like crazy, or that people just didn't have the money to gamble away in a recession. No none of that had any impact at all. /

106 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:38:21pm

re: #94 Golden Jerusalem

oh oh a veteran. How are you sir?

No, srs bout the first part, doubt Hussein Obamas gonna go for a sharia law state just now

Thanks, GJ, class of '01 myself. I don't think the nefarious Kenyan usurper can declare a shariah state until he has mobilized his gay SEIU/ACORN militia to seize our guns, and only then after several months of evil-utionist indoctrination from the lefty teachers unions, for which he will have to make the Discovery Channel and PBS mandatory viewing.
We have known this all along but he is sure taking his sweet time about it.

107 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:42:09pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

Oops. Just found this. Is this yours?

108 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:43:31pm

re: #106 Shiplord Kirel

Thanks, GJ, class of '01 myself. I don't think the nefarious Kenyan usurper can declare a shariah state until he has mobilized his gay SEIU/ACORN militia to seize our guns, and only then after several months of evil-utionist indoctrination from the lefty teachers unions, for which he will have to make the Discovery Channel and PBS mandatory viewing.
We have known this all along but he is sure taking his sweet time about it.

HE'S GONNA COME FOR OUR GUNS ANY DAY NOW!

109 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:44:06pm

re: #108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HE'S GONNA COME FOR OUR GUNS ANY DAY NOW!

Just you wait! He's coming!

//

110 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:44:34pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Oops. Just found this. Is this yours?

111 jaunte  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:45:02pm

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

112 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:45:06pm

re: #109 Gus 802

Just you wait! He's coming!

//

113 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:45:21pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

Holy shit.

114 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:45:39pm

re: #109 Gus 802

Just you wait! He's coming!

//

//It'll be just like that scene in Holy grail where Lancelot keeps yelling "AAHHHHH!" but never getting any closer till suddenly, BAMN he's there!

115 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:46:13pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

Damn.

116 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:46:14pm

re: #108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HE'S GONNA COME FOR OUR GUNS ANY DAY NOW!

And our Gibson Les Pauls!!

117 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:46:22pm

re: #94 Golden Jerusalem

WTF???

118 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:46:52pm

re: #116 makeitstop

And our Gibson Les Pauls!!

...

FREEBIRD!!11ty

119 jaunte  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:47:56pm

re: #115 Gus 802

I can smell the smoke in downtown Houston.

120 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:50:12pm

re: #119 jaunte

I can smell the smoke in downtown Houston.

That might be brimstone...

Barton: Demonic Powers Control Parts of the U.S. Government

121 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:50:56pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

That's about what Austin looks like on opening day of SXSW.

122 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:50:59pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

I guess this is the answer God decided to give to Perry's prayers :/

123 aagcobb  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:51:20pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

God is mad at Texas cuz Perry is not executing enough evildoers, especially teh gayz

124 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:52:50pm

Well, so much for the backyard not flooding.
Thanks Rick Perry!
Image: 1.jpg
Image: 4.jpg
Image: 3.jpg

125 mr.fusion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:53:56pm

re: #116 makeitstop

And our Gibson Les Pauls!!

Don't forget about the Fairness Doctrine...........any day now, you just wait

126 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:54:13pm

re: #122 publicityStunted

I guess this is the answer God decided to give to Perry's prayers :/

Hey now, don't lay that one at my feet. I didn't have shit to do with that. I like my souls rare, not well done.

127 Kragar  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:54:19pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

Looks dangerous. Better call for another prayer rally.

128 Gus  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:56:39pm

Back later.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:58:38pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

Splintered GOP + 3rd party votes lost = Dem victory

Less Hussein Obama declares an islamic state.

In which case I guess it's civil war then.

Blink-blink-excuse-the-fuck-out-of-me?

Come on. You can troll better than that.

130 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:58:44pm

re: #113 Varek Raith

They could use rain alright, but upstate NY has gotten more than its fill. Parts are seeing historic flooding from all the rain over the past 48 hours, which comes on the heels of flooding from Irene.

The Susquehanna River is experiencing record flooding along significant stretches - at Owego, the record flood until today was just under 36 feet. It's now at 39 feet, and may go as high as 42 feet (they haven't updated the charts yet).

And 4 of the top 6 crests have occurred since 2004.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:00:06pm

re: #94 Golden Jerusalem

oh oh a veteran. How are you sir?

No, srs bout the first part, doubt Hussein Obamas gonna go for a sharia law state just now

It would certainly be a groundbreaking development if he did. I don't think a Protestant has ever done that before.

132 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:01:43pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

When you cut your firefighting budget by 75% you can see teh awesome smoke plumes in your state as well!

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:02:23pm

re: #113 Varek Raith

Holy shit.

I feel so bad for Texas right now. These fires are...there's just nothing like it.

The guys who do control on these things are goddamn geniuses and heroes rolled into one, but there's only so much we can do, even these days.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:03:49pm

re: #119 jaunte

I can smell the smoke in downtown Houston.

The last set of big fires we had in California, folks around here in Contra Costa County were getting ash coming down on them. People with asthma were miserable.

135 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:04:20pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

Splintered GOP + 3rd party votes lost = Dem victory

Less Hussein Obama declares an islamic state.

In which case I guess it's civil war then.

The class of 2004 just keeps chugging hallucinating right along.

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:06:10pm

re: #135 celticdragon

The class of 2004 just keeps chugging hallucinating right along.

Now, now, we have many fine and rational 2004 registries among us...

137 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:07:47pm

The drainage area up the street is now flooding into the street.

138 blueraven  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:09:12pm

re: #111 jaunte

Rick Perry's prayer results.

One of my clients just sent me this image:

"Shot taken by a friend of mine outside the Chappell Hill area…looking past Brenham"
Image: smoke.jpg

Uh oh...that's where the Blue Bell cows are, they think Brenham is Heaven.

Seriously, that is ugly looking.

139 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:11:03pm

re: #43 Gus 802

"Never struggled." What a cold and callous zealot. I wonder how anyone can attain such perfection. Such arrogance. Such inhumanity.

Sell your soul to the devil.

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:18:18pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

Wait... aren't you guys supposed to be whining about even doctored calls to violence right now? Did you miss your teabag memo? I know it's hard for you people to read, but the Kochs added lots of pictures for you.

141 tomg51spence  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:23:22pm

Map for fires in Texas.
Bluebell cows are safe for now.
The fire visually from Sommerville towards Brenham is way past Brenham, at the end of Lake Sommerville, it appears.
[Link: ticc.tamu.edu...]

142 shutdown  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:25:02pm

re: #140 LudwigVanQuixote

Wait... aren't you guys supposed to be whining about even doctored calls to violence right now? Did you miss your teabag memo? I know it's hard for you people to read, but the Kochs added lots of pictures for you.

Hmmm. LVQ, you don't usually do sarcasm.

143 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:27:01pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Oops. Just found this. Is this yours?

Looks much too big.

144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:28:29pm

re: #33 Obdicut

We would have been so much better off with that version of the GOP.

This IS that version of the GOP. The version we have now is the same. GOP 2002-2003 is no different from LGF 2002-2003.

re: #37 Obdicut

Why would being a direct recipient of it make you feel it would grow stronger than weaker over time? It had grown weaker, for awhile. Bush made actual inroads with Hispanics.

Odd question. It gives me zero reason to trust them, especially having been one. They have been on this exact trajectory since Goldwater/Nixon/Reagan-Bush, and spent the 90s and 00s nurturing unhinged bigots like Michelle Malkin, Coulter, Walter Williams, Charles Murray, Dinesh D'Souza and other highbrow cranks.

Why would something suddenly shift towards normalcy beginning on Nov. 5 2008?

I don't think that the GOP's complete turn towards white nativism was inevitable. Likely, yeah, but they could have purged themselves-- the Democrats managed it.

Well, overt white nativism, anyway. And you're absolutely right; nothing is inevitable, any more than LGF's shift was inevitable. That's the result of personal work, of which everyone is capable, but too few on the coward/conformist rightwing have the sac to do for themselves.

145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 1:43:42pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

hey Golden Jerusalem, I'm Chrome Yakima, sup bro

146 TedStriker  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 2:48:40pm

re: #86 Golden Jerusalem

Splntrd GP + rd prt vts lst = Dm vctr

Lss Hssn bm dclrs n slmc stt.

n whch cs gss t's cvl wr thn.

A member of the LGF Class of 2004...why am I not surprised?

147 Golden Jerusalem  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:06:41pm

re: #104 Varek Raith

Yes, because it's such a remote possibility, of course.

148 Golden Jerusalem  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:08:52pm

lol. this is funny. look me up. i live in israel by the way.

149 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:10:29pm

re: #148 Golden Jerusalem

lol. this is funny.

Yes, you are quite funny, I agree.

look me up. i live in israel by the way.

Better there than here.

150 Golden Jerusalem  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:16:16pm

Well.
That's very eciting.
Except your nic which is frightening to a major degree.
How can you?

151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:19:58pm

re: #150 Golden Jerusalem

Well.
That's very eciting.
Except your nic which is frightening to a major degree.
How can you?

!!

Clutch the pearls!!

[Link: www.relaxitsjustajoke.com...]

152 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:36:29pm

re: #144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why would something suddenly shift towards normalcy beginning on Nov. 5 2008?

Why on earth would you think I was talking about a sudden shift towards normalcy? They could have continued their gradual expansion into minority areas. Instead, they trashed all those plans and reestablished themselves as a nativist party.

This IS that version of the GOP. The version we have now is the same. GOP 2002-2003 is no different from LGF 2002-2003.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. I wasn't at LGF in 2002-2003.

hey have been on this exact trajectory since Goldwater/Nixon/Reagan-Bush, and spent the 90s and 00s nurturing unhinged bigots like Michelle Malkin, Coulter, Walter Williams, Charles Murray, Dinesh D'Souza and other highbrow cranks.

Oh, no, it hasn't been a smooth trajectory at all. From Buckley renouncing his earlier racism to Bush's Hispanic outreach, they were actually making slight inroads into minority voters. There's always been a strong racist streak left in it, but they had been somewhat on the outs. Now they're back in, and almost everyone else in the GOP is following along.

You kind of seem to be fatalist about it, like, the GOP couldn't possibly have gone in any direction but this one.

153 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:48:57pm

re: #152 Obdicut

You kind of seem to be fatalist about it, like, the GOP couldn't possibly have gone in any direction but this one.

I just said nothing is inevitable, including where the current conservative movement has landed itself.

But yes, they have been on this trajectory since the 1960s. There are reasons to never have been surprised at the state of today's conservative movement, especially if you've been their targets for a generation and cannot afford to be naive about it.

You may not think they are good reasons; that's fine with me.

154 aagcobb  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 4:22:01pm

During the debate when Perry defended his vaccine mandate he said, "But at the end of the day, I will always err on the side of saving lives." Too bad he didn't apply that reasoning to innocent people on death row in Texas.

155 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 4:26:28pm

re: #153 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I never said I was surprised, so I'm not sure where you got that from. Can you explain?

156 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 5:06:23pm

re: #143 BongCrodny

Looks much too big.

It's not how big it is, it's how you use it. However,... you actually have to have one and know how to use it.

157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:23:55pm

re: #155 Obdicut

I never said I was surprised, so I'm not sure where you got that from. Can you explain?

Stop being a literalist and pedantic.

158 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 3:23:21am

re: #157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I wasn't. I was wondering why you got such a wrong impression of what I was saying.

159 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 9, 2011 3:57:34am

re: #62 Gus 802

Yes. I forgot the article but apparently some of the private prison interests lobby for increased prison penalties.

Don't forget to toss in the unions in there too, they're just as responsible as the private lobbyists.

160 Stephen T.  Mon, Sep 12, 2011 5:10:06pm

re: #57 Obdicut

Did you notice how I said tying the payments to recidivism?

Then you would begin to see fewer and fewer prison sentences shorter than life. You can't have recidivism if the inmates are never released.


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