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‘You’re just a homosexual idiot’
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The religious right is all lathered up about the Rick Perry HPV controversy. They really hate that vaccine.

Gardasil.

It’s an evil, evil vaccine that leads young women into lives of debauchery and sexual promiscuity, not necessarily in that order, by preventing the disease that would otherwise be their just and righteous punishment from the Lord.

I wish I were kidding, but that’s how they really think. Here’s an email I received today from someone in Texas, with a crazed homophobic variation on the theme:

Sometimes, Charles, you’re just a homosexual idiot. The mandate to innoculate for Gardasil was an attempt to socialize the sexual behavior of the homosexual/bisexual community for a virus that can only be transmitted through sexual contact. If your children are homosexual/bisexual skanks like yourself, innoculate your children.

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682 comments
1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:55:04pm

homosexual skanks --omy!

Such language. . . .

2 Kragar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:55:09pm

I'm looking at the side effects of the vaccine and increase of sexual promiscuity or changes in sexual orientation are not listed.

Another epic fail from the state of Texas

3 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:56:10pm

Hope none of those daughters marry closet homosexuals who "indulge" themselves with "rent boys".

Oh, I forgot, a wife could never get an STD unless she herself were cheating. . .

4 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:56:42pm

How? How can anybody want people to get sick? We get sick anyhow, soon enough. And die. What's the rush?

5 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:58:22pm

re: #4 lostlakehiker

How? How can anybody want people to get sick? We get sick anyhow, soon enough. And die. What's the rush?

This times a million forever.

6 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:58:38pm

Charles.. I think you should have a monthly mailbag..The worst of, The best of.. The dumbest email.. It would be great...
Plus you get a chance to respond to them...( Shredding time )
It would probably be the most read thread each month here..
The Lizard Mailbag
Regards..

7 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:58:38pm

Tip Jar time.

8 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:58:48pm

Should I be worried that I can't even understand what the fuck they're talking about?

9 Kragar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:58:56pm

For a bunch of good ole boys popping Viagra like chiclets and constantly patting each other on the back over their sexual conquests, they certainly don't like the idea of women having sex.

10 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 6:59:09pm

WTF does homosexuality have to do with the HPV vaccine?

Another genius. Obviously.

11 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:00:45pm

re: #10 Gus 802

WTF does homosexuality have to do with the HPV vaccine?

Another genius. Obviously.

HPV is the 2nd leading cause of throat cancer --after smoking/tobacco use.

12 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:02:02pm

re: #10 Gus 802

WTF does homosexuality have to do with the HPV vaccine?

Reading comprehension is teh hard and he thought they meant HIV?

13 albusteve  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:02:14pm

the Lord giveth, and the Lord giveth again...we've not seen anything yet

14 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:03:11pm

The skanks shall inherit the earth.
/J.C.

15 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:03:24pm

re: #12 publicityStunted

Reading comprehension is teh hard and he thought they meant HIV?

Oh yeah. That's exactly it! LOL

16 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:03:50pm

Breaking News!

Umbrellas cause rain!!

(I'm buying several...)

17 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:03:59pm

I am really starting to doubt that the "religious right" has any secular education at all. Everything is from the bible and their choice of the bible not yours.

18 Bubblehead II  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:04:28pm

Lizards, Time to call it night.

May the Diety of Your Choice smile down uon you.

I just hope it isn't the "Christian" one. You know, the one who dispenses a cold and painfull death upon those who who disregard "his" word.

Yeah, that one. For him and his followers, I have only one thing to say.

19 albusteve  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:04:37pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

The skanks shall inherit the earth.
/J.C.

they just might

20 docproto48  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:04:48pm

re: #4 lostlakehiker

How? How can anybody want people to get sick? We get sick anyhow, soon enough. And die. What's the rush?

If you pray enough you won't get sick.
Thats why Drs like me are quacks ;o}

21 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:05:15pm

re: #16 austin_blue

Breaking News!

Umbrellas cause rain!!

(I'm buying several...)

We have a cold front and rain coming!
Praying for you guys down there

22 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:06:17pm

Love thy skank as you love yourself.

23 Etaoin Shrdlu  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:06:57pm
… a virus that can only be transmitted through sexual contact.

That's not even close to true. It can be transmitted orally (when your saintly mother kissed you good night) and one of the strains covered by Gardasil, HPV-16, causes cancers of the mouth and throat.

24 albusteve  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:07:14pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Love thy skank as you love yourself.

heaven is in your Skank

25 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:07:56pm

Remember when you didn't have to have had a lobotomy to be a Republican?

26 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:08:04pm

re: #8 Obdicut

Should I be worried that I can't even understand what the fuck they're talking about?

No, you should be thankful.

27 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:08:33pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Love thy skank as you love yourself.

Never give thy skank the password to your Blackberry email..

28 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:08:34pm

re: #25 PT Barnum
Yes. I do. /

29 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:09:48pm

The internets has made people smarter!

//

30 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:10:28pm

re: #23 Etaoin Shrdlu

That's not even close to true. It can be transmitted orally (when your saintly mother kissed you good night) and one of the strains covered by Gardasil, HPV-16, causes cancers of the mouth and throat.

Boys and Girls should be vaccinated, IMHO.

31 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:11:15pm

re: #29 Gus 802
It has but it also spreads ignorance faster.

32 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:12:06pm

re: #30 ggt

Boys and Girls should be vaccinated, IMHO.

Together. Naked.

33 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:12:17pm

re: #21 HoosierHoops

We have a cold front and rain coming!
Praying for you guys down there

Thanks! Rumor has it (oh, well, to be honest, Scientists are predicting) that it will be a dry "cold" front that will knock us down around 10 degrees for this weekends Austin City Limits Festival

[Link: forecast.weather.gov...]

when 20,000 of my closest friends will park in my 'hood.

34 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:12:22pm

re: #26 b_sharp

I had the same reaction the first time I tried to read Atlas Shrugged. "Is there something wrong with me that I think this is utter nonsense?"

Then I realized that I just had an above room temperature IQ and I stopped worrying.

35 albusteve  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:12:24pm

I can't think of a worse scenario...a crumbling economy and at the same time a rising theocracy in America...we're hosed

36 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:12:39pm

They need to seriously shut their pie holes. Parents can easily opt out if they so desire. And I'm pretty damn sure that the parents that would opt out have to be of the hovering parent variety keeping up with every single thing that's going on in school. If not then that's their own fault.

37 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:12:54pm

What on earth does homosexuality have to do with the HPIV vaccine? Oh and I see he called you gay too. Really? That's his comeback. I didn't realize your "fans" were middle school boys, Charles.

38 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:14:21pm

re: #37 HappyWarrior

What on earth does homosexuality have to do with the HPIV vaccine? Oh and I see he called you gay too. Really? That's his comeback. I didn't realize your "fans" were middle school boys, Charles.

Yep. Another graduate of the University of Beavis and Butt-head.

39 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:14:46pm

It's almost like road rage. We can call it internet rage. Or something.

40 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:15:00pm

re: #35 albusteve

I can't think of a worse scenario...a crumbling economy and at the same time a rising theocracy in America...we're hosed

The two form an almost completely uncontrolled positive feedback loop.

41 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:15:27pm

re: #37 HappyWarrior

What on earth does homosexuality have to do with the HPIV vaccine? Oh and I see he called you gay too. Really? That's his comeback. I didn't realize your "fans" were middle school boys, Charles.

One thing I've noticed about the right wing is that none of them seem to have enough confidence in their ideas that they can let them stand scrutiny by themselves. They must be supported by either the holiness of their source or the demonization of anyone who has a different opinion. I get the sense that none of these folks have any self confidence at all that they know what they're talking about on their own.

42 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:15:31pm

rre: #39 Gus 802

It's almost like road rage. We can call it internet rage. Or something.

Keyboard rage?

43 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:15:54pm

re: #42 austin_blue

Keyboard rage?

Yeah. Powered by 3.2 beer.

44 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:16:07pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Yep. Another graduate of the University of Beavis and Butt-head.

Nah Beavis and Butthead were clever dudes. They stopped the X5 Unit from going active. I mean granted it was sheer dumb luck but I can't imagine this derphead even being able to do that.

45 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:16:17pm

re: #42 austin_blue

r

Keyboard rage?

Outrage

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:16:32pm

re: #37 HappyWarrior

What on earth does homosexuality have to do with the HPIV vaccine? Oh and I see he called you gay too. Really? That's his comeback. I didn't realize your "fans" were middle school boys, Charles.

Well, if you engage in oral sex . . . .

Really, it isn't specific to any type of sexuality --just that it relates to *genitals* is enough for the wannabe Christian Ministers of Virtue and Vice to be up in arms. *GENITALS* are G-d's and husband's domain.

47 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:16:58pm

re: #29 Gus 802

The internets has made people smarter!

I remember this drunk-driving awareness talk, where the police officer ridiculed the idea of coffee "curing" drunkenness - all it did, he said, was give you a "more alert and energetic drunk".

Likewise, the Internet hasn't cured stupidity, merely made it bigger and faster.

48 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:17:00pm

They say 'skank' like it's a bad thing. What the fuck is their malfunction?

49 recusancy  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:17:04pm

Elizabeth Warren is officially in today! You can donate here.

50 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:17:09pm

re: #39 Gus 802

It's almost like road rage. We can call it internet rage. Or something.

They have just enough intellect to identify with and embrace the philosophy of emoticons.

51 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:17:16pm

re: #44 HappyWarrior

Nah Beavis and Butthead were clever dudes. They stopped the X5 Unit from going active. I mean granted it was sheer dumb luck but I can't imagine this derphead even being able to do that.

True. I was thinking whether or not to lower poor old Beavis and Butthead down to these peoples' levels.

52 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:17:30pm

re: #41 PT Barnum

One thing I've noticed about the right wing is that none of them seem to have enough confidence in their ideas that they can let them stand scrutiny by themselves. They must be supported by either the holiness of their source or the demonization of anyone who has a different opinion. I get the sense that none of these folks have any self confidence at all that they know what they're talking about on their own.

Yeah if you disagree with the wingnuts, you're either a commie, gay, Muslim, anti-American, or something like that. It just amuses me that his first words were to Charles "You're just a homosexual idiot." Really lame.

53 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:17:34pm

re: #46 ggt

Well, if you engage in oral sex . . .

don't have to be gay to do that...

54 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:17:45pm

Gardasil would also protect a woman from getting cervical cancer because her husband cheated on her.

I wonder if they realize this? Or care?

55 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:18:36pm

re: #30 ggt

Boys and Girls should be vaccinated, IMHO.

Boys don't have a cervix to protect from HPV. Girls need to be protected because we can't keep our dicks clean.

56 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:18:57pm

re: #46 ggt

Well, if you engage in oral sex . . .

Yeah. But the HPV vaccine thing was primarily for heterosexual girls of school age.

57 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:19:17pm

re: #54 EmmmieG

Gardasil would also protect a woman from getting cervical cancer because her husband cheated on her.

I wonder if they realize this? Or care?

I don't think they know because they're ignoramuses.

58 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:19:40pm

re: #42 austin_blue

r

Keyboard rage?

The rage of guilt and frustration. Masturbation is a sin.

59 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:19:44pm

re: #41 PT Barnum

One thing I've noticed about the right wing is that none of them seem to have enough confidence in their ideas that they can let them stand scrutiny by themselves. They must be supported by either the holiness of their source or the demonization of anyone who has a different opinion. I get the sense that none of these folks have any self confidence at all that they know what they're talking about on their own.

Scared little puppies, unable to argue with verifiable facts.

Hence, the HPV vaccine causes sexual activity, just like condoms and The Pill!

Umbrellas cause rain.

Levees cause floods.

Improved building standards cause earthquakes.

The DERP goes on and on and...

60 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:20:15pm

re: #56 Gus 802

Yeah. But the HPV vaccine thing was primarily for heterosexual girls of school age.

WHich makes no sense.

61 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:20:33pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

62 docproto48  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:20:44pm

re: #44 HappyWarrior

Nah Beavis and Butthead were clever dudes. They stopped the X5 Unit from going active. I mean granted it was sheer dumb luck but I can't imagine this derphead even being able to do that.

63 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:21:11pm

re: #59 austin_blue

Scared little puppies, unable to argue with verifiable facts.

Hence, the HPV vaccine causes sexual activity, just like condoms and The Pill!

Umbrellas cause rain.

Levees cause floods.

Improved building standards cause earthquakes.

The DERP goes on and on and...

Air bags cause accidents!

Don't forget seat belts.

Derp!

64 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:21:35pm

re: #60 ggt

WHich makes no sense.

It does, actually. Around 11 or 12 years old, girls are going through hormonal changes and apparently that makes their bodies most receptive to the drug, so it is better protection for them. Rachel taught me that tonight.

65 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:21:35pm

re: #54 EmmmieG

Gardasil would also protect a woman from getting cervical cancer because her husband cheated on her.

I wonder if they realize this? Or care?

And throat cancer because he cheated on her - - - -

66 docproto48  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:21:38pm

re: #58 b_sharp

The rage of guilt and frustration. Masturbation is a sin.

obiously because it grows hair on your palms

67 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:21:45pm

Drudge has a typo on his big headline.

Just noting.

68 albusteve  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:22:07pm

some rightwing tweeter cops some phony outrage for some reason...other blogs react with outrage at the phony outrage...so is this outrage at the phony outrage phony?

69 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:22:30pm

re: #64 darthstar

It does, actually. Around 11 or 12 years old, girls are going through hormonal changes and apparently that makes their bodies most receptive to the drug, so it is better protection for them. Rachel taught me that tonight.

HPV affects both males and females.

Why create a vax that only protects females?

70 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:22:41pm

re: #66 proto87

obiously because it grows hair on your palms

Really? One wonders what Hobbits do with their feet then...

71 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:22:55pm

re: #63 Gus 802

Air bags cause accidents!

Don't forget seat belts.

Derp!

I thought it was illegal immigrants crossing our borders in order to cause accidents.

72 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:23:04pm

re: #54 EmmmieG

Gardasil would also protect a woman from getting cervical cancer because her husband cheated on her.

I wonder if they realize this? Or care?

I wonder if they realize that Southern Baptists have a higher rate of AIDS than lesbians?

(But, but,..splodyhead!!)

73 docproto48  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:23:42pm

re: #70 PT Barnum

Really? One wonders what Hobbits do with their feet then...

put a paper clip on that one

74 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:25:10pm

re: #69 ggt

HPV affects both males and females.

Why create a vax that only protects females?

...

Ever since my son got an HPV vaccine at that Commie school he turned into a homersexual!!11ty

75 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:25:37pm

re: #72 austin_blue

I wonder if they realize that Southern Baptists have a higher rate of AIDS than lesbians?

(But, but,..splodyhead!!)

A higher separation rate too I bet but homosexuality is ruining monogamy.

76 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:25:56pm

Significant Rise in HPV-Related Throat Cancer in Men

Philip and Joanne Keane, of Newtown, Conn., never thought twice about having their daughters immunized against strains of the human papillomavirus that could cause cervical cancer.

"I thought it [HPV] was a women-only disease, a virus only they should worry about," said Philip Keane. But when Keane, 52, was diagnosed with stage 4 HPV-related throat cancer, the Keane's decided their 12-year-old son should be vaccinated too.

"You don't want them waking up in 20 or 30 years and finding out they have stage 4 throat cancer. That's where I am now," said Keane.

HPV appears to be linked to a rare but treatable form of throat cancer in men that's on an uptick. If the trend continues, the annual occurrence of HPV-related oropharyngeal cancer among men will surpass that of cervical cancer among women by the year 2020, according to a study that will be presented this week at the American Society of Clinical Oncology's annual scientific meeting.

According to researchers, in 2004 there were nearly 4,000 to 4,500 cases of HPV-related oropharynx cancer in men and women. The number of cases is expected to double to 8,500 by 2020, with the increase occurring primarily in men.

77 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:26:15pm

Oh..my new trolls when there's a Libertarian/Paulian on a thread:

Ron Paul, Reality, seperated at birth.

You're just one psychological break from being a solipsist.

78 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:26:15pm

re: #69 ggt

HPV affects both males and females.

Why create a vax that only protects females?

The vax probably protects both sexes, but guys rarely get checked for genital warts unless their girlfriends wind up at the clinic with them...at which point they blame the girl for giving it to them...and not the drunken fuck-fest they had in Mexico over spring break (that was just a little thing that happened that noone needs to know about).

And it's easier to market to girls. Hell, they still haven't come up with a way to sell condoms to boys that the religious right will accept.

79 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:26:26pm

re: #69 ggt

HPV affects both males and females.

Why create a vax that only protects females?

Because among men, it is generally benign. Among women, it is often lethal.

80 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:27:49pm

re: #78 darthstar

The vax probably protects both sexes, but guys rarely get checked for genital warts unless their girlfriends wind up at the clinic with them...at which point they blame the girl for giving it to them...and not the drunken fuck-fest they had in Mexico over spring break (that was just a little thing that happened that noone needs to know about).

And it's easier to market to girls. Hell, they still haven't come up with a way to sell condoms to boys that the religious right will accept.

Monogomy looks better all the time.

81 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:29:00pm

re: #79 austin_blue

Because among men, it is generally benign. Among women, it is often lethal.

I'm probably a little sensitive about this because I have a good friend who was treated for HPV throat cancer last year. Horrible round of chemo --ended up spending 20 days in the hospital for pain and chemo related issues.

He is gay. So far, his long-term partner has not been affected.

If you, male or female, engage in sexual activity, it is a good idea to be vaccinated against HPV. PERIOD.

82 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:29:13pm

re: #80 PT Barnum

Monogomy looks better all the time.

I want to end up like those adorable old couples, married 60 plus years, that my local paper keeps highlighting.

Telling my husband he's a fibber, fibber, fibber when we're 93. (He said he did what she told him to.)

83 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:29:52pm

re: #76 ggt

Significant Rise in HPV-Related Throat Cancer in Men

Philip and Joanne Keane, of Newtown, Conn., never thought twice about having their daughters immunized against strains of the human papillomavirus that could cause cervical cancer.

"I thought it [HPV] was a women-only disease, a virus only they should worry about," said Philip Keane. But when Keane, 52, was diagnosed with stage 4 HPV-related throat cancer, the Keane's decided their 12-year-old son should be vaccinated too.

"You don't want them waking up in 20 or 30 years and finding out they have stage 4 throat cancer. That's where I am now," said Keane.

HPV appears to be linked to a rare but treatable form of throat cancer in men that's on an uptick. If the trend continues, the annual occurrence of HPV-related oropharyngeal cancer among men will surpass that of cervical cancer among women by the year 2020, according to a study that will be presented this week at the American Society of Clinical Oncology's annual scientific meeting.

According to researchers, in 2004 there were nearly 4,000 to 4,500 cases of HPV-related oropharynx cancer in men and women. The number of cases is expected to double to 8,500 by 2020, with the increase occurring primarily in men.

Gee, honey, I'd like to discuss some Latin phrases with you when we go to bed, but it appears that you might have a Killer Quim!

84 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:30:40pm

re: #80 PT Barnum

Monogomy looks better all the time.

I love monogamy. But humans are human. I don't want to get cancer because either my husband or I made a mistake. I don't want to trust that either of us is super-human.

85 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:31:02pm

re: #82 EmmmieG

I want to end up like those adorable old couples, married 60 plus years, that my local paper keeps highlighting.

Telling my husband he's a fibber, fibber, fibber when we're 93. (He said he did what she told him to.)

I fully expect to go the distance with Mrs. Barnum. She puts up with a great deal and plays D&D online with me. Most guys draw wife aggro when they play, I'm one of the few that gets it when I don't.

86 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:32:05pm

re: #83 austin_blue

Gee, honey, I'd like to discuss some Latin phrases with you when we go to bed, but it appears that you might have a Killer Quim!

She's a Killer Quim..Dynamite with a laser bim..

87 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:34:14pm

re: #86 PT Barnum

She's a Killer Quim..Dynamite with a laser bim..

Tragedy tomorrow, Comedy tonight!

88 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:34:24pm

ah!

89 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:36:10pm

re: #88 ggt

ah!

now look up queef.

90 Lidane  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:37:03pm

My best friend had it out with her right-winger husband over Gardasil. They have three kids, ages 8, 12, and 13. The oldest is a boy, the other two are girls. My best friend is a pharmacy student and knows exactly what all the risks and benefits are and she wanted the kids to have it, especially the two girls.

Hubby pulled out the "No daughter of mine..." canard, and started to parrot all the usual right wing talking points against it. She pulled out the actual documentation about the vaccine and dug her heels in. End result? The two older kids got the HPV vaccine and the youngest will get it as soon as she's old enough.

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:37:51pm

re: #89 PT Barnum

now look up queef.

aaah!

both are better than schmegma.

92 Lidane  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:38:14pm

re: #69 ggt

HPV affects both males and females.

Why create a vax that only protects females?

Gardasil was approved by the FDA for use in men and boys from 9-26:

[Link: www.gardasil.com...]

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:39:24pm

re: #90 Lidane

My best friend had it out with her right-winger husband over Gardasil. They have three kids, ages 8, 12, and 13. The oldest is a boy, the other two are girls. My best friend is a pharmacy student and knows exactly what all the risks and benefits are and she wanted the kids to have it, especially the two girls.

Hubby pulled out the "No daughter of mine..." canard, and started to parrot all the usual right wing talking points against it. She pulled out the actual documentation about the vaccine and dug her heels in. End result? The two older kids got the HPV vaccine and the youngest will get it as soon as she's old enough.

OMG, why even ask. Take the kids to the doctor and tell your husband they had to get their vaccinations for school. He won't ask or think twice.

I told my husband that if we had a daughter she'd be on birth control by at least 16 and he'd never know a thing about it. He said it was better that way because it really wasn't any of his business.

94 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:39:40pm

re: #92 Lidane

Gardasil was approved by the FDA for use in men and boys from 9-26:

[Link: www.gardasil.com...]

The "initiation appointment' with the gynecologist just isn't the same./

95 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:40:17pm

re: #90 Lidane

My best friend had it out with her right-winger husband over Gardasil. They have three kids, ages 8, 12, and 13. The oldest is a boy, the other two are girls. My best friend is a pharmacy student and knows exactly what all the risks and benefits are and she wanted the kids to have it, especially the two girls.

Hubby pulled out the "No daughter of mine..." canard, and started to parrot all the usual right wing talking points against it. She pulled out the actual documentation about the vaccine and dug her heels in. End result? The two older kids got the HPV vaccine and the youngest will get it as soon as she's old enough.

evidence triumphs over belief hooray

96 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:40:31pm

re: #92 Lidane

Gardasil was approved by the FDA for use in men and boys from 9-26:

[Link: www.gardasil.com...]

So why all the misinformation --and Texas only requiring it of girls?

97 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:41:41pm

I just learned the hard way how you can easily convince people to be more receptive toward this vaccine: Google image search for HPV*

*Link not safe for work, stomach, or eyeballs *_*

98 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:42:09pm

re: #96 ggt

So why all the misinformation --and Texas only requiring it of girls?

because Rick Perry's a dumbass. Actually thats my new answer for everything.

99 Four More Tears  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:42:20pm

re: #96 ggt

So why all the misinformation --and Texas only requiring it of girls?

Because if boys are getting cervical cancer, they're doing it really really wrong.

/

100 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:43:47pm

re: #97 publicityStunted

I just learned the hard way how you can easily convince people to be more receptive toward this vaccine: Google image search for HPV*

*Link not safe for work, stomach, or eyeballs *_*

So true.

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:44:10pm

re: #97 publicityStunted

I just learned the hard way how you can easily convince people to be more receptive toward this vaccine: Google image search for HPV*

*Link not safe for work, stomach, or eyeballs *_*

EXCELLENT strategy!

102 Lidane  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:45:31pm

re: #96 ggt

So why all the misinformation --and Texas only requiring it of girls?

1. Because Rick Perry is an atavistic douchebag.

2. Because the soundbite of protecting your girls from cervical cancer and HPV before they're ever sexually active is controversial and gets the nutjobs up in arms. We can't protect the wimmenz and girlz from anything to do with sex! What will keep them from spreading their legs like the town whore if we don't make sex as horrifying and deadly as possible?

103 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:45:43pm

re: #100 Gus 802

So true.

Well, that was sick.

104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:46:06pm

re: #98 PT Barnum

because Rick Perry's a dumbass. Actually thats my new answer for everything.

It works for me.

But why do the stars fall down from the sky everytime you walk by?

105 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:46:11pm

re: #97 publicityStunted

I just learned the hard way how you can easily convince people to be more receptive toward this vaccine: Google image search for HPV*

*Link not safe for work, stomach, or eyeballs *_*

"Gee...my husband's penis looks like a coral reef and he swears he's always been faithful to me...it's just a natural change men go through. And he's a Christian, so it can't be anything else."

106 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:47:49pm

re: #103 EmmmieG

Well, that was sick.

Depressing was what I was thinking. But, look at what they're going to put on cigarette packs.

107 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:48:06pm

re: #105 darthstar

"Gee...my husband's penis looks like a coral reef and he swears he's always been faithful to me...it's just a natural change men go through. And he's a Christian, so it can't be anything else."

"Now, I have this cancer and I swear I've been faithful. I must be wrong."

108 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:48:18pm

re: #100 Gus 802

All I wanted was a photo-through-microscope image of the virus itself. Instead, I got pictures of what looked like a lab experiment with penises and cauliflower gone horribly wrong.

Hmmm...in Canada, they put pictures of diseased lungs on cigarette packages. On what products should HPV pictures go?

109 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:48:34pm

re: #106 Gus 802

Depressing was what I was thinking. But, look at what they're going to put on cigarette packs.

Put a rotting penis on a cigarette pack and you'll stop people from smoking.

110 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:49:07pm

re: #106 Gus 802

Depressing was what I was thinking. But, look at what they're going to put on cigarette packs.

one has to present powerful evidence to overcome the massive power of rationalizing that "that'll never happen to me"

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:49:17pm

re: #109 darthstar

Put a rotting penis on a cigarette pack and you'll stop people from smoking.

Will it stop Michelle Bachman from eating corn dogs at the State Fair?

112 Four More Tears  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:49:28pm

re: #97 publicityStunted

I just learned the hard way how you can easily convince people to be more receptive toward this vaccine: Google image search for HPV*

*Link not safe for work, stomach, or eyeballs *_*

If I never have sex again, I'll just blame seeing that. Yeah, that's the ticket.

113 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:49:28pm

re: #108 publicityStunted

Juicy Couture low rise jeans?/

114 JAFO  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:50:02pm

re: #79 austin_blue

Because among men, it is generally benign. Among women, it is often lethal.

Men tend to get throat cancer from it.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:50:13pm

re: #48 darthstar

They say 'skank' like it's a bad thing. What the fuck is their malfunction?

They're trying to promote the idea that HPV vaccines are irrelevent unless a person is promiscuous. Getting folks vaccinated seems to trigger all sort of things in their heads they can't deal with. The fact that it's advised to give it to kids at puberty really upsets them. I think they can't distinguish between a vaccination at 11 and putting the kid on birth control at 11.

Being honest about why we need HPV vaccines involves being honest about sex. That's something some people are willing to fight tooth and claw, up to and including risking their children's lives.

116 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:50:17pm

re: #111 ggt

Will it stop Michelle Bachman from eating corn dogs at the State Fair?

Bachmann let show a side of her that I found oddly pleasing. Let us not condemn her for that.

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:50:37pm

re: #110 PT Barnum

one has to present powerful evidence to overcome the massive power of rationalizing that "that'll never happen to me"

Addiction + Ego = Powerful Rationalization

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:51:40pm

re: #116 darthstar

Bachmann let show a side of her that I found oddly pleasing. Let us not condemn her for that.

You are sick.

119 BishopX  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:52:18pm

re: #96 ggt

So why all the misinformation --and Texas only requiring it of girls?

The HPV vaccine was originally only tested for the prevention of cervical cancer. After it hit the market there have been additional studies showing effectiveness a) in populations other than pubescent females and b) against other forms of HPV induced cancer. My best guess is that we're dealing with an issue of timing. When Perry was going to mandate vaccinations it was only approved for females. Now it's five years later and it's fine for everyone and he looks like a stick in the mud.

120 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:53:24pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

They're trying to promote the idea that HPV vaccines are irrelevent unless a person is promiscuous. Getting folks vaccinated seems to trigger all sort of things in their heads they can't deal with. The fact that it's advised to give it to kids at puberty really upsets them. I think they can't distinguish between a vaccination at 11 and putting the kid on birth control at 11.

Being honest about why we need HPV vaccines involves being honest about sex. That's something some people are willing to fight tooth and claw, up to and including risking their children's lives.

In 2011 I'd hope adults would be better able to deal with sex issues. But I've been wrong on so much lately. I still can't believe, truly believe, people have issues with a black man in the white house. I know it intellectually, I see and hear the evidence, but I can't seem to digest it.

121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:53:52pm

Jane, you ignorant slut...

122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:54:05pm

re: #119 BishopX

The HPV vaccine was originally only tested for the prevention of cervical cancer. After it hit the market there have been additional studies showing effectiveness a) in populations other than pubescent females and b) against other forms of HPV induced cancer. My best guess is that we're dealing with an issue of timing. When Perry was going to mandate vaccinations it was only approved for females. Now it's five years later and it's fine for everyone and he looks like a stick in the mud.

Well, I don't mind the part where it makes Perry look stupid. . . .

123 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:54:20pm

re: #116 darthstar

Bachmann let show a side of her that I found oddly pleasing.

Is that you in the bottom-left corner of the photo? ;)

124 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:54:30pm

re: #119 BishopX

and thank you for the thoughtful response!

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:54:55pm

re: #56 Gus 802

Yeah. But the HPV vaccine thing was primarily for heterosexual girls of school age.

I don't think they asked the girls if they were straight or not.

126 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:55:58pm

I just realized that the word "skank" really describes Ann Coulter.

I could never associate Charles with Ann Coulter. NEVER.

127 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:56:24pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think they asked the girls if they were straight or not.

No. But they were targeting the majority and the majority sexual behavior that may cause it.

128 Nervous Norvous  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:57:14pm

re: #126 ggt

I just realized that the word "skank" really describes Ann Coulter.

I could never associate Charles with Ann Coulter. NEVER.

SKinny Ass Nasty Killjoy

129 BishopX  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:57:14pm

re: #124 ggt

I'll chalk it up to asking my doctor if I (then a male teenager) should get it at roughly the same time...

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:57:25pm

re: #69 ggt

HPV affects both males and females.

Why create a vax that only protects females?

It's been approved for boys now, IIRC, and is recommended for them.

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:57:28pm

re: #127 Gus 802

No. But they were targeting the majority and the majority sexual behavior that may cause it.

Only girls have sex?

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:57:48pm

re: #72 austin_blue

I wonder if they realize that Southern Baptists have a higher rate of AIDS than lesbians?

(But, but,..splodyhead!!)

What about Southern Baptist lesbians?

133 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:58:23pm

re: #131 ggt

Only girls have sex?

I'm referring to what THEY are doing. As far as vaccinating boys that's fine by me.

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:59:22pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

What about Southern Baptist lesbians?

They are all going to hell . . .

:0

135 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 7:59:56pm

re: #64 darthstar

It does, actually. Around 11 or 12 years old, girls are going through hormonal changes and apparently that makes their bodies most receptive to the drug, so it is better protection for them. Rachel taught me that tonight.

And the vaccine can only be effective if you get it between the ages of 12-26.

136 BishopX  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:00:40pm

re: #129 BishopX

Wikipedia confirms my recollection. Gardasil was approved in 2006 for women and in 2009 for men. Perry was talking about vaccinating girls in 2006. Mandatory vaccinations are one thing, but mandatory off-label vaccinations are quite another.

137 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:00:53pm

Number of Americans in poverty hits record high

The number of Americans living in poverty rose to 46.2 million last year, nearly one in six people, according to the US Census Bureau's annual report.

The 2010 data shows the poverty rate at 15.1%, from 14.3% in 2009. The number of Americans without health insurance also rose slightly to 49.9 million.

The poverty rate was the highest since 1983, and tied with the level in 1993...

I wonder if they all have air conditioning and refrigerators?

138 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:01:28pm

re: #137 Gus 802

Number of Americans in poverty hits record high

I wonder if they all have air conditioning and refrigerators?

And cell phones!

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:02:11pm

re: #137 Gus 802

Number of Americans in poverty hits record high

I wonder if they all have air conditioning and refrigerators?

re: #138 darthstar

And cell phones!

Having them is a whole lot different than actually using them and paying for service.

140 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:02:15pm

I mentioned earlier that the vaccine kind of freaked me out (Children of Men, promiscuity, etc.)... then I got over it and was thankful that my daughter got the vaccine. And I'm not that smart of a guy.

Makes me wonder. What kind of dumb ass worships their intellect so much that they will take no second look at an issue.

"I am a smart person. My initial reaction to this particular issue must be correct; therefore no further study is required."
-Dumb Ass.

141 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:02:33pm

re: #138 darthstar

And cell phones!

The sweet life!

The rich shall inherit the Earth...

All of this while the rich get richer and corporations continue to set record profits.

142 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:02:52pm

One thing these right wingers seem to forget or just don't care about is rape. Sexual assault is very common. Up to 1/3 of women will be sexually assaulted over their lifetime, and a great many will never tell anyone. Many of these rapes happen to women under age 20 so it is best to have the girls vaccinated as soon as possible. Gardasil is more effective if the series is completed before a girl becomes sexually active and is exposed to HPV. I had my both of daughters vaccinated as soon as the vaccine was available.

143 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:03:18pm

re: #137 Gus 802

Number of Americans in poverty hits record high

I wonder if they all have air conditioning and refrigerators?

And maybe even some food in their refrigerators! They ain't that poor if they're still eating!

144 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:04:36pm

re: #142 ibob

One thing these right wingers seem to forget or just don't care about is rape. Sexual assault is very common. Up to 1/3 of women will be sexually assaulted over their lifetime, and a great many will never tell anyone. Many of these rapes happen to women under age 20 so it is best to have the girls vaccinated as soon as possible. Gardasil is more effective if the series is completed before a girl becomes sexually active and is exposed to HPV. I had my both of daughters vaccinated as soon as the vaccine was available.

Only sluts are raped ...

Don't you get it?

:0

Seriously, good for looking out for your daughters!

145 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:04:48pm

re: #143 moderatelyradicalliberal

And maybe even some food in their refrigerators! They ain't that poor if they're still eating!

It's crazy. You can see it out here. Things are getting worse. Haven't seen the tent cities yet but that's probably coming soon.

146 darthstar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:04:50pm

I'm bored.
ENTERTAIN ME, INTERNETS!
Feh.

See you all on the flip side.

147 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:05:22pm

re: #135 moderatelyradicalliberal

And the vaccine can only be effective if you get it between the ages of 12-26.

I gotta make that appointment for my gal. Now, how do I slip the birth control pills into her suitcase when she leaves for college in 5 years?

148 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:05:48pm

The Republican answer? Make the rich even richer. Fascinating. I see how that's worked ever since the decline began around 1980. Thanks to Saint Reagan.

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:06:14pm

re: #145 Gus 802

It's crazy. You can see it out here. Things are getting worse. Haven't seen the tent cities yet but that's probably coming soon.

and many of the dwellers will have cell phones and laptops.

It's a Brave New World. Communication is taking priority over many things. In my youth, it was all about getting a car. Now kids want electronics.

150 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:08:14pm

re: #142 ibob

One thing these right wingers seem to forget or just don't care about is rape. Sexual assault is very common. Up to 1/3 of women will be sexually assaulted over their lifetime, and a great many will never tell anyone. Many of these rapes happen to women under age 20 so it is best to have the girls vaccinated as soon as possible. Gardasil is more effective if the series is completed before a girl becomes sexually active and is exposed to HPV. I had my both of daughters vaccinated as soon as the vaccine was available.

Good Lord, I haven't even thought about that. I doubt it would be persuasive with this crowd. I'm sure they think all women who get raped are whores who had it coming. They don't believe their little girls will ever have sex consensual of forced. Neither of those things happen to "good" girls in their worldview. Besides, you really think these people have sympathy for rape victims? These are people who think rape victims should be forced to give birth the their rapists babies for goodness sake. These people do not know the meaning of the words compassion or empathy.

151 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:08:25pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

What about Southern Baptist lesbians?

Blasphemy! No such creature exists!

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:09:00pm

re: #80 PT Barnum

Monogomy looks better all the time.

Well it is fun. But if you turn down a vaccination on the grounds that you'll stake your twelve-year-old daughter's life on the idea that she will have no sexual contact with anyone except the man she marries, and he likewise--you're being a dumbass. (Not you, but generic you.)

And I can hear these people gearing up in hysterics about how pure they and their families are. Yeah, I said dumbass.

Seriously. I would like to have a little girl. I can't imagine standing over her crib and saying "I have complete and total faith that you will not go down on some guy who hasn't been born yet, junior year of high school. I have complete and total faith that you will never be the victim of a sexual assault. I have complete and total faith that the boy you'll fall in love with and marry will not have been molested as a child or teenager. I have complete and total faith that he will not have sex with any girl he meets before you. I have complete and total faith that he'll be honest about this. I have complete and total faith that he will never cheat on you. This applies not only to your first husband, but to the pleasant widower you will meet in the single parents support group, and everyone he has ever slept with. I AM WILLING TO BET YOUR HEALTH AND LIFE ON IT."

Which is pretty much what some of the people I've talked to about this are saying to themselves.

153 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:09:46pm

re: #149 ggt

and many of the dwellers will have cell phones and laptops.

It's a Brave New World. Communication is taking priority over many things. In my youth, it was all about getting a car. Now kids want electronics.

What they really need is a copy of the Constitution!

//

154 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:11:32pm

re: #147 prairiefire

I gotta make that appointment for my gal. Now, how do I slip the birth control pills into her suitcase when she leaves for college in 5 years?

Do like my mom did. Give her the pills, tell her to put them in her underwear drawer. If she changes her panties everyday, she can take a pill everyday. And then tell her you'll be damned if she comes home with a baby by some punk with no real job after all of the money you spent on tuition and birth control.

155 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:11:39pm

re: #8 Obdicut

Should I be worried that I can't even understand what the fuck they're talking about?

Let me use my English to Internet Hater Dictionary and translate:

Allowing this vaccine promotes Promiscuity, which promotes Homosexuality, which leads to Dancing!1 That means your Gay!!11 Ow my butt, it hurts!!!111

156 garhighway  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:11:43pm

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

For a bunch of good ole boys popping Viagra like chiclets and constantly patting each other on the back ass over their sexual conquests, they certainly don't like the idea of women having sex.

FTFY

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:13:05pm

re: #127 Gus 802

No. But they were targeting the majority and the majority sexual behavior that may cause it.

Well yeah. And many of the lesbians in the group will experiment with guys at least briefly--although I think that's getting less common as kids come out earlier.

158 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:13:24pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

Let me use my English to Internet Hater Dictionary and translate:

Which rhymes with P and that stand for POOL!

RIGHT HERE IN RIVER CITY! OMG!

159 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:14:04pm

re: #146 darthstar

I'm bored.
ENTERTAIN ME, INTERNETS!
Feh.

Poverty
What a broad brush we have..
I remember being fresh out of College.. Getting Married.. Having a new born baby living in a flat in Napa for 135 dollars a month....I made 3.35/hr and we really struggled..It was really hard...And I think I was never more happy as a man.. The world stood before us.. And I think we did pretty good.. It's a battle...But a story each person can win with some luck

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:14:14pm

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

Well yeah. And many of the lesbians in the group will experiment with guys at least briefly--although I think that's getting less common as kids come out earlier.

I've noticed a lot of the young people I know are openly gay on facebook. If their parents are fb friendly.

161 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:14:31pm

re: #143 moderatelyradicalliberal

And maybe even some food in their refrigerators! They ain't that poor if they're still eating!

They should only eat government cheese. I am sick to death of these food stamps for these ne'er-do-wells. Despite the fact that those wanting jobs outnumber job postings by 4-1, they should access their inner rugged individualist and succeed!

(Limbaugh mode off)

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:14:53pm

re: #151 austin_blue

Blasphemy! No such creature exists!

Er, I'll try to explain that to them...

163 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:16:17pm

re: #153 Gus 802

What they really need is a copy of the Constitution!

//

I think there's an app for that.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:16:46pm

re: #163 SanFranciscoZionist

I think there's an app for that.

LOL!

165 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:17:35pm

re: #161 austin_blue

Mmmm. Government butter on freshly made school food service rolls. The schools don't do any baking anymore.

166 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:18:11pm

Dumb, unwashed confederates like Mister Mailbag are exactly the reason HPV and HIV proliferates.

The rest of us know better.

167 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:18:25pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

Well it is fun. But if you turn down a vaccination on the grounds that you'll stake your twelve-year-old daughter's life on the idea that she will have no sexual contact with anyone except the man she marries, and he likewise--you're being a dumbass. (Not you, but generic you.)

And I can hear these people gearing up in hysterics about how pure they and their families are. Yeah, I said dumbass.

Seriously. I would like to have a little girl. I can't imagine standing over her crib and saying "I have complete and total faith that you will not go down on some guy who hasn't been born yet, junior year of high school. I have complete and total faith that you will never be the victim of a sexual assault. I have complete and total faith that the boy you'll fall in love with and marry will not have been molested as a child or teenager. I have complete and total faith that he will not have sex with any girl he meets before you. I have complete and total faith that he'll be honest about this. I have complete and total faith that he will never cheat on you. This applies not only to your first husband, but to the pleasant widower you will meet in the single parents support group, and everyone he has ever slept with. I AM WILLING TO BET YOUR HEALTH AND LIFE ON IT."

Which is pretty much what some of the people I've talked to about this are saying to themselves.

Amen, sister! Preach that common sense!

(I am beginning to believe that that has become an oxymoron in Modern America.)

168 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:18:50pm

re: #154 moderatelyradicalliberal

Do like my mom did. Give her the pills, tell her to put them in her underwear drawer. If she changes her panties everyday, she can take a pill everyday. And then tell her you'll be damned if she comes home with a baby by some punk with no real job after all of the money you spent on tuition and birth control.

That's a damn fine idea.

169 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:18:54pm

re: #144 ggt

Only sluts are raped ...

Don't you get it?

:0

Seriously, good for looking out for your daughters!

I am an Ob/ Gyn. I've seen more genital warts, abnormal Pap smears, cervical dysplasia, and cervical cancer than you can shake a stick at. Many of them looked worse than the pictures on the previously mentioned web site. It is difficult treating a teenager with over a hundred warts on the vulva and in the vagina and rectum. As soon as something was available that could help prevent my daughters and my patients from this happening to them, I jumped on it.

170 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:19:19pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

Well it is fun. But if you turn down a vaccination on the grounds that you'll stake your twelve-year-old daughter's life on the idea that she will have no sexual contact with anyone except the man she marries, and he likewise--you're being a dumbass. (Not you, but generic you.)

And I can hear these people gearing up in hysterics about how pure they and their families are. Yeah, I said dumbass.

Seriously. I would like to have a little girl. I can't imagine standing over her crib and saying "I have complete and total faith that you will not go down on some guy who hasn't been born yet, junior year of high school. I have complete and total faith that you will never be the victim of a sexual assault. I have complete and total faith that the boy you'll fall in love with and marry will not have been molested as a child or teenager. I have complete and total faith that he will not have sex with any girl he meets before you. I have complete and total faith that he'll be honest about this. I have complete and total faith that he will never cheat on you. This applies not only to your first husband, but to the pleasant widower you will meet in the single parents support group, and everyone he has ever slept with. I AM WILLING TO BET YOUR HEALTH AND LIFE ON IT."

Which is pretty much what some of the people I've talked to about this are saying to themselves.

To believe as these people believe is to deny the world around them. I mean seriously, how many married couples do these people know who were virgins on their wedding day? I know some people who waited a long time to have sex. It is possible to get through high school and even college a virgin by chance or by choice. But a virgin until your wedding day? I don't know anybody who has done that who was born after 1969 and got married after the age of 24.

171 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:20:38pm

re: #159 HoosierHoops

Hey, is Winston OK?
And, how are you!
*waves*

172 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:20:45pm

re: #168 prairiefire

That's a damn fine idea.

Worked for me. I plan on using it myself one day.

173 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:21:20pm

re: #167 austin_blue

Common sense, isn't so common anymore!

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:22:02pm

re: #160 ggt

I've noticed a lot of the young people I know are openly gay on facebook. If their parents are fb friendly.

I screwed that up. They are honest if their parents are NOT fb friendly. Otherwise they find ways to either not deal with the issue or show pictures of them with groups of friends and them standing next to a friend of the opposite sex.

175 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:23:16pm

re: #169 ibob

I am an Ob/ Gyn. I've seen more genital warts, abnormal Pap smears, cervical dysplasia, and cervical cancer than you can shake a stick at. Many of them looked worse than the pictures on the previously mentioned web site. It is difficult treating a teenager with over a hundred warts on the vulva and in the vagina and rectum. As soon as something was available that could help prevent my daughters and my patients from this happening to them, I jumped on it.

How do you deal with the parents?

176 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:23:24pm

re: #170 moderatelyradicalliberal

To believe as these people believe is to deny the world around them. I mean seriously, how many married couples do these people know who were virgins on their wedding day? I know some people who waited a long time to have sex. It is possible to get through high school and even college a virgin by chance or by choice. But a virgin until your wedding day? I don't know anybody who has done that who was born after 1969 and got married after the age of 24.

Do as I say, not as I did...

177 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:25:29pm

re: #171 Floral Giraffe

Hey, is Winston OK?
And, how are you!
*waves*

Winston is doing great! He went to the vet last Weds. and is all fixed up..
He doesn't love me anymore.. The maid comes by once or twice a week and he won't leave her alone.. He is such a suck up!

178 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:26:23pm

re: #169 ibob

I am an Ob/ Gyn. I've seen more genital warts, abnormal Pap smears, cervical dysplasia, and cervical cancer than you can shake a stick at. Many of them looked worse than the pictures on the previously mentioned web site. It is difficult treating a teenager with over a hundred warts on the vulva and in the vagina and rectum. As soon as something was available that could help prevent my daughters and my patients from this happening to them, I jumped on it.

We talk to all of our adolescent patients about this vaccine at the clinic I work for. If the parents say no, the doctors suggest it again at their next appointment again. Showing them pictures seem to be very effective. Of course, in the community we work in a lot of teenagers are parents and a lot of the parents were teenagers when they became parents so it's not that hard a sell. They have no illusions about kids having sex. Not the moms or the dads.

179 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:26:39pm

re: #177 HoosierHoops

LOL!
That's good!
Hope you are ready for winter?
That rain thing?

180 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:27:18pm

re: #175 ggt

How do you deal with the parents?

"Well, there is an airborne phase of HPV in girl's gymnasiums..."

181 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:27:45pm

re: #175 ggt

How do you deal with the parents?

I know you weren't talking to me, but in our clinic pictures seem to do the trick.

182 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:28:43pm

re: #181 moderatelyradicalliberal

I know you weren't talking to me, but in our clinic pictures seem to do the trick.

I loved your answer.

183 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:28:59pm

re: #179 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
That's good!
Hope you are ready for winter?
That rain thing?

Amen Sister! I'm ready for the cold front! It was only 102 today..And rain is on the way to Oklahoma

184 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:29:45pm

re: #183 HoosierHoops

Amen Sister! I'm ready for the cold front! It was only 102 today..And rain is on the way to Oklahoma

grumble grumble grumble

185 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:31:51pm

Bottom line politically though is that that goon Rick Perry got it in the first place regarding the HPV vaccine. Then he turns around an reinvents himself in order to appeal to the deranged and ignorant segment of the Republican base.

186 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:32:11pm

re: #182 ggt

I loved your answer.

Seriously, if you are not a religious nut who thinks STDs are a punishment from God, you will say yes after the pictures. The pictures are nightmarish. The pictures made me want to vaccine and I'm too old for it.

187 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:33:15pm

re: #183 HoosierHoops

Amen Sister! I'm ready for the cold front! It was only 102 today..And rain is on the way to Oklahoma

I guess Oklahoma's governor prayed harder than our governor here in Texas.

//

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:33:51pm

This is the forecast for the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland.

I'm putting an extra blanket on the bed tonite. Also thinking there may be a few critters up there with me.

189 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:34:38pm

re: #158 ggt

Which rhymes with P and that stand for POOL!

RIGHT HERE IN RIVER CITY! OMG!

River City was in Indiana. You can't expect those hicks Hoosiers not to be fooled.

/Hey Hoops!

190 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:35:05pm

re: #185 Gus 802

Bottom line politically though is that that goon Rick Perry got it in the first place regarding the HPV vaccine. Then he turns around an reinvents himself in order to appeal to the deranged and ignorant segment of the Republican base.

I don't know what's more frightening: the rock solid, stone cold stupidity of the GOP base or the abject fear that GOP politicians have of it.

191 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:35:08pm

re: #186 moderatelyradicalliberal

Seriously, if you are not a religious nut who thinks STDs are a punishment from God, you will say yes after the pictures. The pictures are nightmarish. The pictures made me want to vaccine and I'm too old for it.

I had a cone biopsy at 23. My mom had a total hysterectomy at 36. Seems we are prone to it.

192 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:36:03pm

re: #187 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm too old and married for it, too.

193 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:36:42pm

re: #191 ggt

I had a cone biopsy at 23. My mom had a total hysterectomy at 36. Seems we are prone to it.

The thing is that neither of us were given any idea it was sexually transmitted. My Mom wasn't even told, exactly, that it was cancer.

194 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:37:40pm

re: #190 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't know what's more frightening: the rock solid, stone cold stupidity of the GOP base or the abject fear that GOP politicians have of it.

The latter. Only because the Republican leadership has it in their power to educate their own. They can take a stand for their own principles and stick to them rather than following the ignorant masses. One could say they should know better but refuse to do so time and time again. They're supposed to be leaders but they don't act like it. They cower in fear to their own electorate.

196 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:38:34pm

re: #184 austin_blue

grumble grumble grumble

When I say I feel your pain..This is no Bullshit.. I have been in Oklahoma for one year now...I have been Through Tornadoes, Blizzards ( I guess the worst) An 80 MPH Hail Storm.. Straight line hail at 80mph ..effen me..
The Hottest Summer of all time...And This is a fact..It has been effen hot..
And now dry as hell...The modern day dust bowl...What is next?
This is an adventure...Oh the thunder is really bad ass here...

197 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:39:35pm

re: #196 HoosierHoops

When I say I feel your pain..This is no Bullshit.. I have been in Oklahoma for one year now...I have been Through Tornadoes, Blizzards ( I guess the worst) An 80 MPH Hail Storm.. Straight line hail at 80mph ..effen me..
The Hottest Summer of all time...And This is a fact..It has been effen hot..
And now dry as hell...The modern day dust bowl...What is next?
This is an adventure...Oh the thunder is really bad ass here...

You must have brought a whole lot of sin with you!

:0

199 Four More Tears  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:40:40pm

re: #195 Lidane

Perry Accuses Bachmann Of Peddling Conspiracy Theories: HPV Vaccine Does Not Cause Mental Retardation

Yeah, that one threw me for a loop today.

200 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:41:25pm

re: #183 HoosierHoops

How did the Maid thing work out, anyway?

201 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:41:41pm

re: #199 JasonA

Yeah, that one threw me for a loop today.

I think even he has had enough of her BS.

202 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:41:51pm

re: #195 Lidane

Perry Accuses Bachmann Of Peddling Conspiracy Theories: HPV Vaccine Does Not Cause Mental Retardation

100 bucks says that Perry still believes in the validity of the HPV vaccine.

203 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:42:02pm

re: #193 ggt

The thing is that neither of us were given any idea it was sexually transmitted. My Mom wasn't even told, exactly, that it was cancer.

You know I wouldn't be surprised if this is also just the general ignorance about science that the GOP base is so prone to and are proud of. I'm sure a lot of people don't know that their is an STD that causes cancer, but the GOP base seems immune to new information and fax. Sex causing cancer? Balderdash! What part of HPV caused cancer don't these idiots get? Every time Perry said it, it just went over like a lead balloon. It's like the whole cancer part didn't matter at all.

204 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:42:52pm

re: #202 Gus 802

100 bucks says that Perry still believes in the validity of the HPV vaccine.

“I would suggest to you that this issue about Gardasil and making it available was about saving people’s lives,” he added.

205 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:43:10pm

re: #175 ggt

How do you deal with the parents?

I have found pictures seem to help. However, the most effective tool seems to be telling them I had my daughters vaccinated. Most mothers understand that I want the best for them, and I would never do anything that might hurt them. I only rarely see fathers bringing their daughters to the Gyn. Usually, they will find a another female relative to bring them if the mother is not available.

206 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:44:37pm

re: #203 moderatelyradicalliberal

You know I wouldn't be surprised if this is also just the general ignorance about science that the GOP base is so prone to and are proud of. I'm sure a lot of people don't know that their is an STD that causes cancer, but the GOP base seems immune to new information and fax. Sex causing cancer? Balderdash! What part of HPV caused cancer don't these idiots get? Every time Perry said it, it just went over like a lead balloon. It's like the whole cancer part didn't matter at all.

Well, part of that may be not wanting to look at themselves. Alot of girls my age back then (in our early 20's) had cervical cancer. It wasn't that uncommon. Most got the "freezing" treatment, I had a cone biopsy.

So if those "girls" are in their 40's now, they would have to admit that they had an STD to themselves. And telling their kids they had it would mean they would be admitting they had sex way back then--if they were married, it would open their husbands up to an accusation of infidelity.

Easier to ignore it. deny it is possible. . . . .

207 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:45:24pm

re: #196 HoosierHoops

When I say I feel your pain..This is no Bullshit.. I have been in Oklahoma for one year now...I have been Through Tornadoes, Blizzards ( I guess the worst) An 80 MPH Hail Storm.. Straight line hail at 80mph ..effen me..
The Hottest Summer of all time...And This is a fact..It has been effen hot..
And now dry as hell...The modern day dust bowl...What is next?
This is an adventure...Oh the thunder is really bad ass here...

I know, and I appreciate it! Actually, following The Adventures of Winston and Hoops in Their First Year in Oklahoma has been a hoot. You have been absolutely accurate in describing the many WTF!?!? moments people have in encountering both the weather and the culture of Soonerland.

208 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:45:51pm

re: #194 Gus 802

The latter. Only because the Republican leadership has it in their power to educate their own. They can take a stand for their own principles and stick to them rather than following the ignorant masses. One could say they should know better but refuse to do so time and time again. They're supposed to be leaders but they don't act like it. They cower in fear to their own electorate.

You're right. Of course at this point I fear that there is no persuading these fools and nitwits. Anybody who says something that goes against their beliefs is dismissed and ignored. Even if Rush Limbaugh started making sense and contradicting them, his show would be off the air in a week.

209 yoshicastmaster  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:45:58pm

"socialize the sexual behavior"

huh?!?

210 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:46:18pm

Monster Puppy is sleeping at my feet.

near the shoes I kicked-off.

211 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:47:22pm

re: #202 Gus 802

100 bucks says that Perry still believes in the validity of the HPV vaccine.

Mike Toomey told him it was true, and Pointy Boots believes it. QED.

212 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:47:26pm

re: #206 ggt

I've had some things taken off "up in there" and I'm HPV negative.

213 jaunte  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:47:33pm

re: #209 yoshicastmaster

"Normalize, socialize, one a them ize words."

214 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:47:52pm

re: #202 Gus 802

100 bucks says that Perry still believes in the validity of the HPV vaccine.

I agree. Rick Perry did act in a supporter's interest, but near as I can see he ordered those vaccines because he honestly thought it was the right thing to do. I hope he stands firm on this point, because he's given Bachmann plenty of rope. And I think that she'll hang herself with it trying to attack him. She'll be sounding like Gen. Ripper before the weekend is my bet.

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:48:33pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

I agree. Rick Perry did act in a supporter's interest, but near as I can see he ordered those vaccines because he honestly thought it was the right thing to do. I hope he stands firm on this point, because he's given Bachmann plenty of rope. And I think that she'll hang herself with it trying to attack him. She'll be sounding like Gen. Ripper before the weekend is my bet.

She wouldn't survive one round with him.

Titanium spine my ass.

216 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:48:41pm

re: #206 ggt

Well, part of that may be not wanting to look at themselves. Alot of girls my age back then (in our early 20's) had cervical cancer. It wasn't that uncommon. Most got the "freezing" treatment, I had a cone biopsy.

So if those "girls" are in their 40's now, they would have to admit that they had an STD to themselves. And telling their kids they had it would mean they would be admitting they had sex way back then--if they were married, it would open their husbands up to an accusation of infidelity.

Easier to ignore it. deny it is possible. . . .

Yeah, I can see that too. Like I said earlier, I don't know anybody over the age of 24 who has only had sex with one person and waited until after they were married to do it.

217 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:48:46pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

I agree. Rick Perry did act in a supporter's interest, but near as I can see he ordered those vaccines because he honestly thought it was the right thing to do. I hope he stands firm on this point, because he's given Bachmann plenty of rope. And I think that she'll hang herself with it trying to attack him. She'll be sounding like Gen. Ripper before the weekend is my bet.

She already has.

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:49:28pm

re: #213 jaunte

"Normalize, socialize, one a them ize words."


because, you know, sex really isn't normal.

I am seriously beginning to think the Whacko's think this way.

219 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:49:29pm

re: #212 prairiefire

I've had some things taken off "up in there" and I'm HPV negative.

Were you a DES baby?

220 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:50:15pm

re: #208 moderatelyradicalliberal

You're right. Of course at this point I fear that there is no persuading these fools and nitwits. Anybody who says something that goes against their beliefs is dismissed and ignored. Even if Rush Limbaugh started making sense and contradicting them, his show would be off the air in a week.

Yeah, they really are just not worth the effort, except to point at and ridicule.

221 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:50:24pm

re: #212 prairiefire

I've had some things taken off "up in there" and I'm HPV negative.

You ok?

222 jaunte  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:51:32pm

re: #218 ggt

"Any sex that other people are having is bad."

223 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:51:47pm

re: #200 ProLifeLiberal

How did the Maid thing work out, anyway?

I talked to her..She brought my Jerseys back.. I still like her and didn't fire her... I know she is in a tough place right now.. I know people..I've been around..And I can tell she is really trying to make it..And she has a 16 yr old son because she was raped...And I really like them..He is a good kid and is on the edge of being a great Athlete or being led astray..
We have talked.. I like her..It's this feeling I have...

224 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:51:48pm

re: #220 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, they really are just not worth the effort, except to point at and ridicule.

2 years ago I was naive enough to think it was worth a shot. Half the time I was getting people telling me that I wasn't a Republican so my opinion didn't matter. That's cool. They can their boat and sink it too.

225 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:54:34pm

re: #215 ggt

She wouldn't survive one round with him.

Titanium spine my ass.

No, she won't. Not the least because Perry honestly is in the right on this issue, and anti-vaxxers aren't a majority even among the GOP base. So Bachmann ends up looking nuts. That "vaccines cause autism" line would have gotten her support from Jenny McCarthy, but McCarthy is Catholic and from Chicago, so Bachmann would just call her an heathen.

That last is not /sarc. Bachmann really does think that way.

226 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:54:49pm

re: #220 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, they really are just not worth the effort, except to point at and ridicule.

I used to do that until I realized just how many of them there are and that they can win elections even while obviously being nuts. And that they only need a short period of time to do a whole lot of damage. In just a few months they have aggressively attacked women's reproductive rights, striped unions of their power in once proud union states and caused our credit rating to be downgraded. I'm not really laughing anymore. Not when half of the country seems willing to vote for these fools.

227 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:54:55pm

re: #219 austin_blue

Were you a DES baby?

Nope, I know someone who is, with all kinds of problems from it. Let see, abnormal pap smear, little white patches taken off in office. The biopsy came back negative cancer and HPV. Four normal paps since then.

228 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:55:04pm

re: #223 HoosierHoops

You're just a really nice man.
Accept that compliment.

229 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:56:54pm

re: #193 ggt

The thing is that neither of us were given any idea it was sexually transmitted. My Mom wasn't even told, exactly, that it was cancer.

During my time in medical school and residency (1980's), we didn't know cervical cancer was caused by a sexually transmitted disease. We only knew it was more common in women who had had genital warts and herpes. One interesting paper did show that the second wives of men whose first wives had died from cervical cancer had an increase risk of developing cervical cancer themselves. It was not until the 1990's with the advent of DNA testing that it was determined the human papilloma virus was the actual cause.

230 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:57:00pm

re: #221 ggt

You ok?

Thanks, yes. My gyno treats it like it now like it was not a big deal. He said I can even skip a year for a pap, which I have not done. Gotta get my pap smear, man.

231 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:57:07pm

re: #223 HoosierHoops

I talked to her..She brought my Jerseys back.. I still like her and didn't fire her... I know she is in a tough place right now.. I know people..I've been around..And I can tell she is really trying to make it..And she has a 16 yr old son because she was raped...And I really like them..He is a good kid and is on the edge of being a great Athlete or being led astray..
We have talked.. I like her..It's this feeling I have...

You sound very kind. Maybe a little kindness is what she needs.

232 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:58:21pm

Well.
My daughter got the Gardasil vaccine.

What's that say about me as a parent?


re: #223 HoosierHoops

I talked to her..She brought my Jerseys back.. I still like her and didn't fire her... I know she is in a tough place right now.. I know people..I've been around..And I can tell she is really trying to make it..And she has a 16 yr old son because she was raped...And I really like them..He is a good kid and is on the edge of being a great Athlete or being led astray..
We have talked.. I like her..It's this feeling I have...

Hoops -you are a most decent and very kind person. Proud to know you.

233 aagcobb  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:59:24pm

re: #54 EmmmieG

Gardasil would also protect a woman from getting cervical cancer because her husband cheated on her.

I wonder if they realize this? Or care?

If she was a good christian wife and submitted to her husband, he wouldn't have to cheat on her.

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:59:33pm

re: #232 reine.de.tout

Well.
My daughter got the Gardasil vaccine.

What's that say about me as a parent?

Hoops -you are a most decent and very kind person. Proud to know you.

1. You're smart.

2. Hoops is the best.

235 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 8:59:41pm

re: #232 reine.de.tout

Well.
My daughter got the Gardasil vaccine.

What's that say about me as a parent?

Hoops -you are a most decent and very kind person. Proud to know you.

It says you support promiscuity!

236 freetoken  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:00:06pm

re: #232 reine.de.tout

Well.
My daughter got the Gardasil vaccine.

What's that say about me as a parent?

Oh noes... you've sacrificed your daughter to Moloch!!

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:01:34pm

I just stole on of my kids lunch pudding things and shared it with the dogs.

Am I a bad person?

238 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:01:46pm

Ot
Really classic exchange from Jay Leno's Jaywalking tonight. Jay was asking natural-born morons citizens the same questions immigrants must answer on the citizenship test.

Jay: How many US senators are there?
Citizen: Fifty-two?
Jay: Er, why fifty-two?
Citizen: Cuz there's fifty-two states.

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:02:14pm

re: #237 ggt

I just stole on of my kids lunch pudding things and shared it with the dogs.

Am I a bad person?

The dogs think you're the best person ever!

240 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:03:40pm

re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist

The dogs think you're the best person ever?

And that is really all that matters, isn't it?

241 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:04:16pm

re: #237 ggt

I just stole on of my kids lunch pudding things and shared it with the dogs.

Am I a bad person?

Yes.
But, the dogs love you!

242 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:04:21pm

re: #232 reine.de.tout

Well.
My daughter got the Gardasil vaccine.

What's that say about me as a parent?

Hoops -you are a most decent and very kind person. Proud to know you.

You are the best.. But really.. JJ is good people.. When I came home Last Weds. to get my golf clubs And Winston was in pain hopping around.. I called her and JJ had Winston at a Animal Hospital in Norman within the Hour... Had him home within a few hours all fixed up.. All with one phone call... I don't feel so all alone in Oklahoma..

243 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:04:52pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

It says you support promiscuity!

Obviously!
Guess I'm going to hell. Or something.

'Course I'm already doomed, actually. When I was in 3rd grade, the communion host got stuck on the roof of my mouth - and I had to reach in and touch it - I TOUCHED IT!! YES I DID! - to get it unstuck. This was back in the day when only the priest could touch the host with his hands. I was so afraid I would be excommunicated and bring shame to my parents, I never confessed it. Still haven't to this day. Of course, I've come to realize that God is going to forgive an 8-year-old for pretty much anything.

244 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:05:59pm

Goodnight all!

245 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:06:11pm

I got the funnies picture on my fb today. I can't figure out how to cut and paste, so:

It is a picture of a note on a fridge. It says:

"Someone from the Gyne Colleges called, They said your Pabst Beer is normal."

246 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:07:31pm

re: #243 reine.de.tout

Obviously!
Guess I'm going to hell. Or something.

'Course I'm already doomed, actually. When I was in 3rd grade, the communion host got stuck on the roof of my mouth - and I had to reach in and touch it - I TOUCHED IT!! YES I DID! - to get it unstuck. This was back in the day when only the priest could touch the host with his hands. I was so afraid I would be excommunicated and bring shame to my parents, I never confessed it. Still haven't to this day. Of course, I've come to realize that God is going to forgive an 8-year-old for pretty much anything.

ahhhh, I used to hate when that happened. Darn things are sooo dry! Sometimes I'd get them stuck under my tongue! I can see why the wine is needed to wash 'em down.

247 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:08:20pm

re: #243 reine.de.tout

LOL!
*waves*
Hope you & Le Roi are well?

248 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:09:32pm

re: #227 prairiefire

Nope, I know someone who is, with all kinds of problems from it. Let see, abnormal pap smear, little white patches taken off in office. The biopsy came back negative cancer and HPV. Four normal paps since then.

Both She Who Must Be Obeyed and her sister are DES babies. Needless to say, their marriages have produced no children.

For those unfamiliar, it was prescribed as an anti-miscarriage drug in the mid-50's to mid-60's. It resulted in the birth of lots of perfect looking kids. Unfortunately it was a teratogen (Latin for Monster Maker) that resulted in significant defects to internal dainties, both male and female. In women it resulted in malformed uteri and a hugely increased risk of a particularly aggressive cervical cancer within six years of puberty. Lots and lots of 17-22 year old women died horrible deaths. In men, it has presented in over-40's with an aggressive form of prostate cancer, sexual disfunction, and impotence.

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:10:11pm

re: #245 ggt

I got the funnies picture on my fb today. I can't figure out how to cut and paste, so:

It is a picture of a note on a fridge. It says:

"Someone from the Gyne Colleges called, They said your Pabst Beer is normal."

I can see how that would be an enormous relief to a person. I hate abnormal beer.

250 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:10:24pm

re: #227 prairiefire

Nope, I know someone who is, with all kinds of problems from it. Let see, abnormal pap smear, little white patches taken off in office. The biopsy came back negative cancer and HPV. Four normal paps since then.

You actually still have the virus. It is has just been inactivated (turned off) by your body's immune system. Our treatments (cones, LEEP's, and freezing) decrease the amount of active virus and allow your immune system to turn off the rest of active virus. The treatments also usually destroy the part of the cervix that is most likely to become abnormal. HPV can actually reactive if your immune system becomes weakened.

251 freetoken  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:10:43pm

Creationism runs deep in America...

From NC:

Brunswick schools' creationism debate resurfaces

[... D]espite public officials' desire to teach the religion-themed alternative [creationism] to evolution, the school board's legal team once again determined that it is not possible under the law.

County commissioners Chairman Bill Sue brought the issue back up in April at a meeting between commissioners and school board members. In June, Sue sent a letter to Superintendent Edward Pruden with a potential strategy to get it done: Use a Christian legal defense organization to argue for a curriculum that teaches creationism as an alternative theory to evolution.

Two weeks ago, Sue received a letter back from school board Chairwoman Shirley Babson that said the legal team had checked into it, but it just wasn't going to be possible.

"Courts including the U.S. Supreme Court have consistently and recently held that it is not legal to teach creationism in public schools. And that's our stance," said Jessica Swencki, spokeswoman for the Brunswick County school system. [...]

"I think everybody on the school board would like to teach creationism," Babson said in an interview. "We think that our nation has gotten so politically correct that there is no freedom of religion in America. They want freedom from religion."

She said that in today's world. it's acceptable to teach about Islam and Buddhism, but when Christianity comes up, people think it's wrong.

[...]

It's not likely to go away, either. On Tuesday, Sue said he believes the constitutional separation between church and state has simply been misinterpreted in this case.

"The older I get, the more I realize that we're just here for a short period of time when it comes to eternity," Sue said. "It just concerns me that this nation and a lot of its leaders are bringing us away from God."

So, the school board, and at least one county commissioner, want to teach religion (as indoctrination) in public schools. They blame the "leaders" [Obama?] for "bringing us away from God".

And they'll be back, next month, next year, year after year...

252 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:11:13pm

Hey lizards.

253 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:11:27pm

re: #247 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
*waves*
Hope you & Le Roi are well?

Heya, Flo!
Yep, we're doing very well.

Daughter moved out last month, and is in an apartment now.
Have you seen the commercials where the young working man comes home, and goes to bed, all the while talking about his parents who must not know what to do with themselves anymore, now that he's grown? He's on his way down the hall to bed, and hollers, "Night!". And then the scene cuts to a view of his parents, in a car with some other folks, going to some sort of concert - LOL.

Anyhow - that's how life is these days. She pops in at any time or calls up and wants me to just be ready to do something with her, and is always surprised to find out I'm busy. She seems perplexed that I have anything to do with my life other than be available for her.

254 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:12:08pm

re: #232 reine.de.tout

Well.
My daughter got the Gardasil vaccine.

What's that say about me as a parent?

Smart. Real-world savvy. Loving. Protective in the best of ways.

255 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:13:26pm

Meanwhile, in Michigan...

This sounds rather familiar.

256 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:14:33pm

re: #248 austin_blue

I am sorry to hear that, Austin. The DES situation led in part to the present day strict restrictions of medications for pregnant women.

Night, lizards.re: #250 ibob

Wow, ok, so my negatives in 1997 and 2007 were because my body had suppressed the existent virus? And my gyno does not want to dwell on that with me so I don't freaK out?

257 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:14:48pm

re: #255 ProLifeLiberal

Meanwhile, in Michigan...

This sounds rather familiar.

Sounds like a Constitutional violation.

But what does the GOP care about that. Bachman want's to override the Supreme Court on Roe V. Wade. . . .

258 Gus  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:14:51pm

I better hit the hay. Good night folks.

259 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:15:14pm

re: #258 Gus 802

I better hit the hay. Good night folks.

What did the Hay do to you?

260 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:15:34pm

re: #248 austin_blue

I worked with a DES baby, who was pregnant.
I didn't KNOW anyone could barf so much.
She had a healthy, happy baby eventually.
She barfed at least twice a day, for 9 months.
But Mom & kid are fine now.

261 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:15:45pm

re: #250 ibob

I caught Mono in 2003, would that have contributed?

Free LGF health service!

262 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:15:46pm

re: #254 austin_blue

It's incredible to me that people won't use the protective tools that have been developed and created from man's God-given intelligence. What a slap in the face to God. In my humble opinion.

263 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:16:27pm

re: #260 Floral Giraffe

I worked with a DES baby, who was pregnant.
I didn't KNOW anyone could barf so much.
She had a healthy, happy baby eventually.
She barfed at least twice a day, for 9 months.
But Mom & kid are fine now.

I barfed once a day for 9 months.

Was horrible. Still gained 45 lbs. I don't know why or how. Doctor yelled at me!

Glad mom and baby are doing well!

264 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:16:59pm

re: #262 reine.de.tout

It's incredible to me that people won't use the protective tools that have been developed and created from man's God-given intelligence. What a slap in the face to God. In my humble opinion.

EXACTLY!

Why wear clothes at all, God made us naked.

265 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:18:06pm

re: #263 ggt

I barfed once a day for 9 months.

Was horrible. Still gained 45 lbs. I don't know why or how. Doctor yelled at me!

Glad mom and baby are doing well!

Damn.
I never barfed, not once.
Also gained 18 lbs, and had a hard time doing it - I was under orders to drink two milkshakes a day. Do you know how hard it is overeat? I did enjoy the milkshakes, though.

266 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:18:15pm

re: #263 ggt

LOL!
The dirty trash can, that she had just barfed in, would make her barf again. Seriously, if we were LUCKY, she only barfed twice a day.
Still, she's so happy to have a healthy happy kid, and feels it was worth it.

267 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:18:47pm

re: #264 ggt

EXACTLY!

Why wear clothes at all, God made us naked.

There ya go!
But of course, He also gave us cold weather, and skin that burns. So - what to do?

268 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:19:56pm

re: #248 austin_blue

Both She Who Must Be Obeyed and her sister are DES babies. Needless to say, their marriages have produced no children.

For those unfamiliar, it was prescribed as an anti-miscarriage drug in the mid-50's to mid-60's. It resulted in the birth of lots of perfect looking kids. Unfortunately it was a teratogen (Latin for Monster Maker) that resulted in significant defects to internal dainties, both male and female. In women it resulted in malformed uteri and a hugely increased risk of a particularly aggressive cervical cancer within six years of puberty. Lots and lots of 17-22 year old women died horrible deaths. In men, it has presented in over-40's with an aggressive form of prostate cancer, sexual disfunction, and impotence.

There is also correlation between DES and trans-sexualism in the male children.

269 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:20:20pm

re: #267 reine.de.tout

There ya go!
But of course, He also gave us cold weather, and skin that burns. So - what to do?

so many possibilities!!!!

270 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:21:10pm

re: #264 ggt

EXACTLY!

Why wear clothes at all, God made us naked.

I'm shutting off my camera!

271 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:21:13pm

re: #269 sattv4u2

so many possibilities!!!

Well, unless you live on a warm beach.

272 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:21:38pm

re: #267 reine.de.tout

Wear clothes and sunscreen?
LOL!

273 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:22:57pm

re: #270 sattv4u2

I'm shutting of my camera!

Satt, you'll miss the best stuff!
Leave it on

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:23:15pm

re: #266 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
The dirty trash can, that she had just barfed in, would make her barf again. Seriously, if we were LUCKY, she only barfed twice a day.
Still, she's so happy to have a healthy happy kid, and feels it was worth it.

I would barf, then brush my teeth, then have the dry heaves because the toothpaste would cause me to want to vomit.

It was awful.

Overall, pregnancy was so awful for me, I haven't done it again. I told my husband he could have the next one if he wanted another child.

275 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:23:31pm

re: #273 reine.de.tout

Satt, you'll miss the best stuff!
Leave it on

I was protecting HER from my camera

Not me from hers!!

276 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:23:38pm

re: #267 reine.de.tout

There ya go!
But of course, He also gave us cold weather, and skin that burns. So - what to do?

endure it, we obviously sinned to bring on the cold weather and hot sun.

/

277 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:24:05pm

re: #274 ggt

I would barf, then brush my teeth, then have the dry heaves because the toothpaste would cause me to want to vomit.

It was awful.

Overall, pregnancy was so awful for me, I haven't done it again. I told my husband he could have the next one if he wanted another child.

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that.
I felt the best I've ever felt, up 'til about a week before she was born, and then I couldn't sleep. Otherwise - it was great.

278 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:24:12pm

re: #248 austin_blue

Both She Who Must Be Obeyed and her sister are DES babies.

I dated a DES daughter for many years. Difficult problems, none her fault. The callous, libbercon attitude against such persons is truly sociopathic.

279 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:24:23pm

re: #276 ggt

endure it, we obviously sinned to bring on the cold weather and hot sun.

/

Thats why I moved south

I eliminated one of those problems!

280 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:25:02pm

re: #274 ggt

I would barf, then brush my teeth, then have the dry heaves because the toothpaste would cause me to want to vomit.

It was awful.

Overall, pregnancy was so awful for me, I haven't done it again. I told my husband he could have the next one if he wanted another child.

TMI!!

///

281 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:26:19pm

Not to get all maudlin on you guys, but I am in a dark place tonight emotionally. The page I posted about the gal who was pulled off a plane by a SWAT team and held in handcuffs for four hours (and strip/cavity searched and closely interrogated) all because she sat next to someone who used the bathroom too much has really screwed me up. I am somewhere between despair and rage, and I can't even imagine how those three passengers feel right now.

I would actually want to do violent harm to somebody if that happened to me, and I really am having trouble recognizing the America I grew up in. Somebody on BoingBoing really summed this up for me: I don't want any more 9/11 prayer services and retrospectives right now. I want my civil rights back.

282 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:27:11pm

re: #277 reine.de.tout

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that.
I felt the best I've ever felt, up 'til about a week before she was born, and then I couldn't sleep. Otherwise - it was great.

Yeah, I decided I wasn't meant to be pregnant.

Glad your's went well tho. It's a good thing most women have good pregnancies. If men had to do it, there wouldn't be a next generation . . .

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:28:54pm

re: #281 celticdragon

Not to get all maudlin on you guys, but I am in a dark place tonight emotionally. The page I posted about the gal who was pulled off a plane by a SWAT team and held in handcuffs for four hours (and strip/cavity searched and closely interrogated) all because she sat next to someone who used the bathroom too much has really screwed me up. I am somewhere between despair and rage, and I can't even imagine how those three passengers feel right now.

I would actually want to do violent harm to somebody if that happened to me, and I really am having trouble recognizing the America I grew up in. Somebody on BoingBoing really summed this up for me: I don't want any more 9/11 prayer services and retrospectives right now. I want my civil rights back.

I think a lot of us are wondering where that line should be. The line that goes between security and freedom.

I don't have the answer.

284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:28:56pm

re: #251 freetoken

Creationism runs deep in America...

From NC:

Brunswick schools' creationism debate resurfaces

"She said that in today's world. it's acceptable to teach about Islam and Buddhism, but when Christianity comes up, people think it's wrong"

She is another dumb, stupid confederate.

285 Kragar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:30:35pm

re: #251 freetoken

Creationism runs deep in America...

From NC:

Brunswick schools' creationism debate resurfaces

So, the school board, and at least one county commissioner, want to teach religion (as indoctrination) in public schools. They blame the "leaders" [Obama?] for "bringing us away from God".

And they'll be back, next month, next year, year after year...

As long as they are willing to accept Cthulhu as their one true god, I don't think we'll have a problem.

286 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:30:52pm

This is one of those days I'd love if Bill Buckley were still alive.

Could you see him ripping Bachman a new asshole during a debate and being a total gentleman about it?

287 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:31:16pm

Well, time for this slack-jawed, drooling, inbred suthren gal to get some sleep. 'Night, all!

CelticDragon, sorry you're in a bad spot this evening. That must have been a horrible experience for that person. Maybe tonight's not the time to dwell on it. Maybe we should think about what it is we as a nation need to do to ensure that anyone wishing to do us harm, cannot - and then we can dispense with vigilance. That would be the best scenario, all the way 'round.

288 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:31:55pm

re: #281 celticdragon

Hang in there.
You will get some perspective on this.
Hope you feel better, or can take a proactive position, soon.
YOU control much of your life.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:32:14pm

re: #281 celticdragon

Not to get all maudlin on you guys, but I am in a dark place tonight emotionally. The page I posted about the gal who was pulled off a plane by a SWAT team and held in handcuffs for four hours (and strip/cavity searched and closely interrogated) all because she sat next to someone who used the bathroom too much has really screwed me up. I am somewhere between despair and rage, and I can't even imagine how those three passengers feel right now.

I would actually want to do violent harm to somebody if that happened to me, and I really am having trouble recognizing the America I grew up in. Somebody on BoingBoing really summed this up for me: I don't want any more 9/11 prayer services and retrospectives right now. I want my civil rights back.

I'm sorry it's hard right now. That's about all I have.

290 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:33:11pm

re: #256 prairiefire

I am sorry to hear that, Austin. The DES situation led in part to the present day strict restrictions of medications for pregnant women.

That and thalidomide. The thing was that thalidomide had very obvious birth defects. DES flew under the radar until adolescent girls and young women started dying.

And hey, it's OK for us! Both Robbie and I are married to the woman of our dreams! Some couples just aren't destined to have kids. So it goes.

291 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:33:23pm

re: #284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Once again, we were not tough enough on the South after the War.

292 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:33:24pm

Can I gloat?

81 points against my hubby on Words with Friends and Strangers!

Thank you.

293 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:34:16pm

re: #291 ProLifeLiberal

Once again, we were not tough enough on the South after the War.

Personally I don't think it was a matter of being tough enough. It was a matter of poorly planned (or non-existent planning) during reconstruction.

294 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:35:39pm

re: #285 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As long as they are willing to accept Cthulhu as their one true god, I don't think we'll have a problem.

What about Gravel?

Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I think you are being a little narrow-minded.

Cthulu bigot!

:0

295 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:37:33pm

re: #291 ProLifeLiberal

Once again, we were not tough enough on the South after the War.

If only the dumb, stupid confederates were limited to the South.

296 Kragar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:40:34pm

re: #294 ggt

What about Gravel?

Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I think you are being a little narrow-minded.

Cthulu bigot!

:0

I also recognize Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh, The Emperor, and Crom.

I'm multicultural.

297 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:42:15pm

re: #296 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I also recognize Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh, The Emperor, and Crom.

I'm multicultural.

Lets not forget
[Link: michaelwitzel.com...]

298 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:42:21pm

re: #261 prairiefire

I caught Mono in 2003, would that have contributed?

Free LGF health service!

Mono will drop your immune system. I have also seen it reactivate in people on long term steroids or medications for autoimmune disorders (both of which lower the immune system). The biggest cause of a low immune system in this country is chronic stress which is very common in women. Women usually have three full time jobs - paycheck job, child or elder care, and a household to run. People get paid full time money (altough sometimes minimum wage) to perform these jobs. Men usually have 1 1/2 jobs - paycheck job and a part time job helping their wife wth her other 2 full time jobs. However, she usually has to tell him want needs to be done. Of course, not all men have to be told, but I live in the South and most of my patients' husbands have to be told.

Your Ob/Gyn is probably not trying to worry you about the HPV. Even if it reoccures, it still has an excellent cure rate.

299 blueraven  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:42:40pm

re: #96 ggt

So why all the misinformation --and Texas only requiring it of girls?

Because of the way Perry did it. When you try to mandate by executive order with no legislative discussion, no medical testimony. It was a dumb way to do it, no introduction all...just bam! Also the drug was very new at the time. People were suspicious.

300 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:43:21pm

re: #264 ggt

EXACTLY!

Why wear clothes at all, God made us naked.

If you truly love your neighbors, you put something on before you go out and get the paper. :-)

301 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:45:10pm

re: #300 Rightwingconspirator

I go naked the better to incite the pity of God.

302 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:45:42pm

re: #300 Rightwingconspirator

re: #301 Obdicut

LOL!
I go out naked to incite the neighbors!

303 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:47:04pm

re: #300 Rightwingconspirator

If you truly love your neighbors, you put something on before you go out and get the paper. :-)

Not if you are Charlize Theron or Ryan Gosling.

Just sayin'...

304 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:47:32pm

re: #299 blueraven

Because of the way Perry did it. When you try to mandate by executive order with no legislative discussion, no medical testimony. It was a dumb way to do it, no introduction all...just bam! Also the drug was very new at the time. People were suspicious.

Executive Order?

and the GOP keeps accusing Obama of tearing apart the Constitution thru Executive Order.

Hypocrites!

305 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:47:56pm

re: #300 Rightwingconspirator

If you truly love your neighbors, you put something on before you go out and get the paper. :-)

Unless you are Satt!

306 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:48:52pm

re: #305 ggt

Unless you are Satt!

The authorities here asked that I not go out naked anymore

Crowd control issues!

307 blueraven  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:49:24pm

re: #304 ggt

Executive Order?

and the GOP keeps accusing Obama of tearing apart the Constitution thru Executive Order.

Hypocrites!

Yes, the legislature was furious with him and overturned it.

308 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:49:41pm

re: #298 ibob

Mono will drop your immune system. I have also seen it reactivate in people on long term steroids or medications for autoimmune disorders (both of which lower the immune system). The biggest cause of a low immune system in this country is chronic stress which is very common in women. Women usually have three full time jobs - paycheck job, child or elder care, and a household to run. People get paid full time money (altough sometimes minimum wage) to perform these jobs. Men usually have 1 1/2 jobs - paycheck job and a part time job helping their wife wth her other 2 full time jobs. However, she usually has to tell him want needs to be done. Of course, not all men have to be told, but I live in the South and most of my patients' husbands have to be told.

Your Ob/Gyn is probably not trying to worry you about the HPV. Even if it reoccures, it still has an excellent cure rate.

With so many women complaining of fatigue, pain and getting diagnosed with fibromyalgia or just given a dose of anti-depressant --I'm wondering--could HPV reoccurance be part of the equation?

309 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:51:32pm

re: #303 austin_blue

Not if you are Charlize Theron or Ryan Gosling.

Just sayin'...

You say that now but give them a good healthy 40 or so more years.
//

Hey I never thought I'd get beyond 15,000 comments. Time goes so fast.

310 austin_blue  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:52:11pm

re: #299 blueraven

Because of the way Perry did it. When you try to mandate by executive order with no legislative discussion, no medical testimony. It was a dumb way to do it, no introduction all...just bam! Also the drug was very new at the time. People were suspicious.

Bingo. It was a *process* protest, much like the ballyhooed Trans-Texas Corridor. Perry routinely forgets how Libertarian the R's are in this State. He's more of a Dick Cheney type. Top-down control.

And with that, night all!

Sweet scaly dreams.

311 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:52:24pm

re: #309 Rightwingconspirator

You say that now but give them a good healthy 40 or so more years.
//

Hey I never thought I'd get beyond 15,000 comments. Time goes so fast.

Blabbermouth!

(congrats!)

312 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 9:52:52pm

re: #251 freetoken

Creationism runs deep in America...

From NC:

Brunswick schools' creationism debate resurfaces

So, the school board, and at least one county commissioner, want to teach religion (as indoctrination) in public schools. They blame the "leaders" [Obama?] for "bringing us away from God".

And they'll be back, next month, next year, year after year...

Then they'll keep getting defeated. Though I honestly think the courts should just start assessing the creationists the court costs.

314 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:05:17pm

re: #298 ibob

However, she usually has to tell him want needs to be done. Of course, not all men have to be told, but I live in the South and most of my patients' husbands have to be told.

Well, they don't HAVE to be told, they're just lazyasses full of excuses. Believe me, it's not just southern men with those dumb gender hangups.

315 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:05:54pm

re: #308 ggt

With so many women complaining of fatigue, pain and getting diagnosed with fibromyalgia or just given a dose of anti-depressant --I'm wondering--could HPV reoccurance be part of the equation?

Usually problems related to HPV are confined to the genital area and not associated with pain (except for the discomfort with warts). These others are more generalized. Chronic stress is frequently associated these things, but which came first is not always easy to tell. Did the stress actually cause the symptoms, or is the person now under stress because she is having do all her usual duties while hurting or feeling so exhausted? Antidepressants often help because they are a treatment for chronic pain. They also help with the depression that often goes with chronic pain and fatigue.

316 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:07:40pm

re: #314 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, they don't HAVE to be told, they're just lazyasses full of excuses. Believe me, it's not just southern men with those dumb gender hangups.

I find men are really good at thinking the intention deserves the same credit as actually doing the chore.

Which, in their minds, is just has difficult. Actually thinking "hey, I should do that" without prompting is a major accomplishment for some men.

Now, if we could just train them to find the ketchup. . . .

317 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:08:47pm

re: #316 ggt

I find men are really good at thinking the intention deserves the same credit as actually doing the chore.

Which, in their minds, is just has difficult. Actually thinking "hey, I should do that" without prompting is a major accomplishment for some men.

Now, if we could just train them to find the ketchup. . . .

My kids can find the ketchup just fine...the first time. It's after they use it that it turns invisible.

318 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:09:21pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

Then they'll keep getting defeated. Though I honestly think the courts should just start assessing the creationists the court costs.

They'll only keep getting defeated if conservative Justices like Scalia are prevented from getting on the court. His dissent in Edwards v. Aguillard makes this clear.

319 laZardo  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:10:14pm

So how's everyone's evening?

320 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:10:17pm

re: #315 ibob

Usually problems related to HPV are confined to the genital area and not associated with pain (except for the discomfort with warts). These others are more generalized. Chronic stress is frequently associated these things, but which came first is not always easy to tell. Did the stress actually cause the symptoms, or is the person now under stress because she is having do all her usual duties while hurting or feeling so exhausted? Antidepressants often help because they are a treatment for chronic pain. They also help with the depression that often goes with chronic pain and fatigue.

I've been reading a lot about the relationship between mental and physical health. It seems that Chronic Inflammation can cause depression. Since a lot of inflammation is not visible, depression is often the first and only symptom until something serious (heart attack,etc) happens.

This is what spurned my wondering if there was a correlation.

Thank you again for your thoughtful answer.

321 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:11:13pm

re: #317 EmmmieG

My kids can find the ketchup just fine...the first time. It's after they use it that it turns invisible.

We have that problem with saltine crackers. They get found and used and then sit on the table until they go stale.

322 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:11:33pm

re: #319 laZardo

So how's everyone's evening?

tired and pissed at Bachmann.

How are you?

323 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:11:36pm

re: #321 ggt

We have that problem with saltine crackers. They get found and used and then sit on the table until they go stale.

Graham crackers. I'm almost not used to crisp graham crackers.

324 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:13:00pm

re: #313 ggt

NPR has an article on the American Pediatrician's response to Bachman and HPV vaccine.

I know what Free token said recently about Obama playing the matador, but it seems Rick Perry has decided to take that role. He's gotten Bachmann to charge straight into a trap. He ends up being able to say he's standing up for the facts and science against the ravings of a lunatic, and it's true, too!

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:14:39pm

Well all, I took a vicodin to be able to sleep with the pain of my Prolotherapy injections from yesterday. It's my last night with meds. If I still am in pain tomorrow night (sleeping back can aggravate it), I'll have to use tylenol. It's my rule --two nights of heavy duty meds only.

Anyway, I am getting a little woozy and don't want to excite Satt, so I'm going to bed.

Have a great morning all!

326 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:14:59pm

re: #306 sattv4u2

LOL!
They all came out in protest!

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:15:03pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

I know what Free token said recently about Obama playing the matador, but it seems Rick Perry has decided to take that role. He's gotten Bachmann to charge straight into a trap. He ends up being able to say he's standing up for the facts and science against the ravings of a lunatic, and it's true, too!

He is a wiley one.

328 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:15:08pm

re: #318 goddamnedfrank

They'll only keep getting defeated if conservative Justices like Scalia are prevented from getting on the court. His dissent in Edwards v. Aguillard makes this clear.

Link did not work.

329 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:15:37pm

Yes, well having driven by and made a great and important contribution to American civic discussion tonight, I'm going to bed, too.

Anyone want a stale graham cracker?

330 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:16:05pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

I know what Free token said recently about Obama playing the matador, but it seems Rick Perry has decided to take that role. He's gotten Bachmann to charge straight into a trap. He ends up being able to say he's standing up for the facts and science against the ravings of a lunatic, and it's true, too!

Yeah, Perry took some lumps Monday night, but he also demonstrated that he can turn what would seem like negatives (HPV vaccine, immigration reform) that rankle the right into positives that could win him the mushy middle.

331 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:16:47pm

re: #329 EmmmieG

Only if you combine it with ice cream, into a pie!
Nom nom nom.

332 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:18:17pm

re: #314 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, they don't HAVE to be told, they're just lazyasses full of excuses. Believe me, it's not just southern men with those dumb gender hangups.

That is so true! Although, here in the South, the churches will often tell the women that these things are their duty. I have worked with many women who leave work, go grocery shopping, cook supper, help with homework, and then get the children in bed. The husbands then complain their wives are not interested in sex.

My youngest daughter told me once that she wanted to be reincarnated as a man so all she had to after work was sit on the couch with the remote and watch TV.

333 laZardo  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:18:29pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

ONLY TWO THINGS COME OUT OF TEXAS...

/because gunny always talks in all caps

334 boxhead  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:19:08pm

I wish Charles would post more hate mail.... I always find them very humorous.. :)

335 Kragar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:20:06pm

re: #333 laZardo

ONLY TWO THINGS COME OUT OF TEXAS...

/because gunny always talks in all caps

Assholes and religious fanatics?

336 Lidane  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:26:41pm

re: #335 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Assholes and religious fanatics?

NSFW language, obviously:

Youtube Video
337 Kragar  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:29:44pm

re: #336 Lidane

NSFW language, obviously:

[Video]

I was more accurate.

338 blueraven  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:29:48pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

I know what Free token said recently about Obama playing the matador, but it seems Rick Perry has decided to take that role. He's gotten Bachmann to charge straight into a trap. He ends up being able to say he's standing up for the facts and science against the ravings of a lunatic, and it's true, too!

Maybe so. She stepped on her own story...and there is one with Perrys relationship with Merck.

Perry's order came after the drug company that manufactured the vaccine hired Mike Toomey, his former chief of staff, as one of the firm's top lobbyists in Austin.

Toomey, who is now running the main "super pac" backing Perry's candidacy, was retained by pharmaceutical giant Merck & Co., maker of the Gardasil vaccine, which is designed to prevent the human papillomavirus, or HPV, an infection linked to cervical cancer in women.

His hiring was part of an aggressive lobbying push in Texas by the drug company, which also donated $16,000 to Perry's gubernatorial campaigns in the two and a half years prior to the executive order. Merck paid Toomey between $260,000 and $535,000 in lobbying fees between 2005 and 2010, according to state lobbying records.

MSNBC Video

But now everyone is talking about her crazy anti-vax stance. She should have just concentrated on the cronyism.

339 Lidane  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:30:32pm

re: #337 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

True, but R. Lee Ermey is awesome. :D

340 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:31:41pm

re: #320 ggt

I've been reading a lot about the relationship between mental and physical health. It seems that Chronic Inflammation can cause depression. Since a lot of inflammation is not visible, depression is often the first and only symptom until something serious (heart attack,etc) happens.

This is what spurned my wondering if there was a correlation.

Thank you again for your thoughtful answer.

These are things I deal with many times a day with patients. I don't believe people realize how hard life is for many women. The women themselves usually aren't aware of it until I repeat back to them just how much they are having to do. It is then like a light bulb just turned on for them. They often feel better just having someone else validate how they are feeling.

Women who don't have a paycheck job don't have it easy either. Everyone then says "well, she doesn't have a job. She can do it."

341 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:31:49pm

Yeah see, not me. As the old song goes, I enjoy being a girl.

Wouldn't trade it for all the remotes and couches in the world. lol

re: #332 ibob

342 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:33:10pm

re: #338 blueraven

Maybe so. She stepped on her own story...and there is one with Perrys relationship with Merck.

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

But now everyone is talking about her crazy anti-vax stance. She should have just concentrated on the cronyism.

That's actually what Sarah Palin was apparently talking about after the debate on Fox. And for once Sarah Palin actually has a valid point, since she actually worked against cronyism with some success in Alaska.

343 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:35:10pm

re: #35 albusteve

I can't think of a worse scenario...a crumbling economy and at the same time a rising theocracy in America...we're hosed

No we aren't. This is just a passing phase. The real news is that our science advances with breathtaking speed, bringing us the means with which to address our real and dangerous difficulties. Our economic troubles do not threaten famine or death by exposure.

Our friends are good friends, our rivals are not mortal enemies,
and some of our old enemies are out of the game.

We'll muddle through.

344 ibob  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:35:19pm

re: #341 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah see, not me. As the old song goes, I enjoy being a girl.

Wouldn't trade it for all the remotes and couches in the world. lol

That is what I told her. Also told her that men will get it in the end when they start getting prostate problems.

345 blueraven  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:35:44pm

re: #342 Dark_Falcon

That's actually what Sarah Palin was apparently talking about after the debate on Fox. And for once Sarah Palin actually has a valid point, since she actually worked against cronyism with some success in Alaska.

She definitely has it in for Perry for some reason.

346 Four More Tears  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:37:22pm

re: #344 ibob

men will get it in the end when they start getting prostate problems.

Almost poetic...

347 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:38:32pm

re: #336 Lidane

Are you a peter puffer?

So many epic scenes in that movie.

348 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:38:53pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Here you go.

349 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:40:01pm

re: #345 blueraven

She definitely has it in for Perry for some reason.

Apparently he told her that he wasn't going to run, and now he's fuckin' up her mojo.

350 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:44:58pm

re: #336 Lidane

[Video]

Believe it or not, Ermey was not originally cast as GSgt. Hartman, but was instead hired by Kubrick only as a technical adviser, mostly to get the "authentic feel" of the era in the film. Ermey proceeded to put together a short "training film" for whoever got the part, in which he did nothing but yell insults and obscenities at a group of extras while being pelted with fruit and tennis balls. He went on for 15 minutes doing this, never once stopping, ducking, or repeating himself.

Upon seeing it, Kubrick not only gave him the role, but also allowed him to improvise the majority of his dialogue, a rarity in one of his films.

351 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:46:28pm

re: #316 ggt

I find men are really good at thinking the intention deserves the same credit as actually doing the chore.

Which, in their minds, is just has difficult. Actually thinking "hey, I should do that" without prompting is a major accomplishment for some men.

Now, if we could just train them to find the ketchup. . . .

Laziness.

352 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:48:26pm

re: #344 ibob

That is what I told her. Also told her that men will get it in the end when they start getting prostate problems.

Rogers and Hammerstein were geniuses. Nancy Kwan wasn't so bad, either.

Youtube Video
353 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 10:57:25pm

re: #348 goddamnedfrank

Here you go.

Well, that was 25 years ago. His dissent was not insane, and Scalia does tend to accept strong majorities like that as settled law.

354 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 11:03:01pm

Goodnight, folks.

355 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Sep 13, 2011 11:45:45pm

re: #54 EmmmieG

Gardasil would also protect a woman from getting cervical cancer because her husband cheated on her.

I wonder if they realize this? Or care?

Infidelity. Molestation. Rape. None of that matters, or even factors into the stance of atavistic culture warriors who see any guard against STDs as a threat to their dogma.

They are not at all unlike their counterparts in the Middle East that punish women for being raped.

356 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:12:43am

Bisexual skanks, hahaha


You gotta love these stone age mouthbreathers and their booga-booga fear of medicine

357 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:01:15am

re: #355 Slumbering Behemoth

Infidelity. Molestation. Rape. None of that matters, or even factors into the stance of atavistic culture warriors who see any guard against STDs as a threat to their dogma.

They are not at all unlike their counterparts in the Middle East that punish women for being raped.

Same conservative bigots, different facial hair.

358 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:15:56am

re: #352 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Rogers and Hammerstein were geniuses. Nancy Kwan wasn't so bad, either.

[Video]

Hubba hubba!

;-P

359 freetoken  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:25:26am

re: #352 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Nancy Kwan...

... sigh...

360 freetoken  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:29:16am

Tsuyoshi Yamamoto – piano, Ken Kaneko – bass, Toshio Osumi - drums:

MP3 Audio
361 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:40:38am

re: #359 freetoken

Nancy Kwan...

... sigh...

OR ,,, to bring us more current

Michelle Kwan

362 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:05:21am

Morning Honcos.

363 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:09:13am

re: #362 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos.

Mister Cement!!!


((guy that did my driveway told me there are two kinds of cement)))

Cement thats cracked,, and cement thats going to crack!!)))

364 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:10:22am

re: #363 sattv4u2

Mister Cement!!!

((guy that did my driveway told me there are two kinds of cement)))

Cement thats cracked,, and cement thats going to crack!!)))

Well, I hope this doesn't. It is for an outdoor smoker/pizza oven.

365 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:11:36am

Pretty sure this was around a few years back, but while we're still in the same week as the 9/11 anniversary

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

366 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:17:19am

Gail Collins loves telling the story of how Mitt Romney drove his family to Canada with the family dog strapped to the roof of the car — and telling it, and telling it, and telling it.

The liberal New York Times columnist has mentioned the incident in print 19 times, by our count. She devoted a column to it in 2007 when Romney first ran for president. In another column, she suggested John McCain pick Romney for his running mate "so I can repeatedly revisit the time Mitt drove to Canada with the family dog on the station-wagon roof." She complained that his 2010 campaign book No Apology didn't mention it, calling it "a critical oversight."
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

Obsess much?

367 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:19:11am

re: #366 Cannadian Club Akbar

Maybe she has a crush on him!

368 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:19:45am

re: #367 sattv4u2

Maybe she has a crush on him!

Mitt or the Mutt?

369 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:20:17am

re: #368 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mitt or the Mutt?

Yes

370 freetoken  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:21:12am

NASA to Announce Kepler Discovery at Media Briefing

Science Journal Has Embargoed Details Until 11 a.m. PDT, Sept. 15

MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. -- NASA will host a news briefing at 11 a.m. PDT, Thursday, Sept. 15, to announce a new discovery by the Kepler mission. [...]

Kepler is the first NASA mission capable of finding Earth-size planets in or near the "habitable zone," the region in a planetary system where liquid water can exist on the surface of the orbiting planet. Although additional observations will be needed over time to achieve that milestone, Kepler is detecting planets and planet candidates with a wide range of sizes and orbital distances to help us better understand our place in the galaxy.

A representative from Industrial Light & Magic (ILM), a division of Lucasfilm Ltd., will join a panel of scientists to discuss the discovery. [...]

My God... they've done it! They've discovered Tatooine!!


FREE THE BANTHA!!

371 researchok  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:22:26am

Morning, all

372 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:22:43am

re: #371 researchok

Morning, all

You're late

Go sit in the corner

373 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:23:52am

re: #366 Cannadian Club Akbar

Gail Collins loves telling the story of how Mitt Romney drove his family to Canada with the family dog strapped to the roof of the car — and telling it, and telling it, and telling it.

The liberal New York Times columnist has mentioned the incident in print 19 times, by our count. She devoted a column to it in 2007 when Romney first ran for president. In another column, she suggested John McCain pick Romney for his running mate "so I can repeatedly revisit the time Mitt drove to Canada with the family dog on the station-wagon roof." She complained that his 2010 campaign book No Apology didn't mention it, calling it "a critical oversight."
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

Obsess much?

Coulda been worse

Mitt coulda tied the dogs leash to the bumper of the car forcing "Seamus" to keep up!!!

374 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:34:25am

Authorities investigate after body found near Sunshine Skyway
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

I'll take "Splat" for $200, Alex.

375 researchok  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:35:20am

re: #372 sattv4u2

You're late

Go sit in the corner

story of my life

376 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:39:23am

re: #375 researchok

story of my life

Remind me not to buy THAT book!!

377 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:40:39am

brb

378 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:41:08am

re: #377 Cannadian Club Akbar

brb

must you?

379 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:53:56am

Googly is everywhere!!!!
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

380 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:56:48am

And on that note, FED EX has just arrived with a piece of equipment I have to have installed, tested and ready to go ASAP

laterz!

381 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:57:40am

Sheesh, you get caught with one dead guy wearing a dog collar and you have to resign from your job. This is not the America I grew up in!!
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

382 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:10:22am

re: #380 sattv4u2

I've never heard of any Fed-Ex delivery happening this early in the morning. Ever.

383 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:46:58am

Got milk?
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

384 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:50:01am

re: #382 Obdicut

I've never heard of any Fed-Ex delivery happening this early in the morning. Ever.

You have now

Terminal is less than 15 minutes from our complex

When we have something as time sensitive as we had today they run a courier car over to us (for an extra fee of course)

385 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:05:27am

GAUTIER, Miss. - Charles E. Hickson Sr., whose report that he had been abducted by a UFO in 1973 drew widespread attention, has died

[Link: www.bostonglobe.com...]


He didn't die

The aliens just "took him home"!

386 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:21:20am

Octoberfest FAIL.
[Link: www.greatbendpost.com...]

387 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:22:35am

Cartman

388 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:25:38am

re: #386 Cannadian Club Akbar

Octoberfest FAIL.
[Link: www.greatbendpost.com...]

DRINK!!!

389 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:26:14am

re: #386 Cannadian Club Akbar

Octoberfest FAIL.
[Link: www.greatbendpost.com...]

What's the matter with Kansans?

390 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:27:38am

re: #388 sattv4u2

DRINK!!!

When my friend and I had season tickets for the Bucs, we would flip a coin to see who would have to stand in line for beer at 1PM, when beer went on sale in Hillsboro County on Sundays. I usually lost. I think he cheated.

391 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:28:51am

re: #389 Decatur Deb

What's the matter with Kansans?

This is what happens when people pass laws without thinking them through.

392 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:31:05am

re: #391 Cannadian Club Akbar

This is what happens when people pass laws without thinking them through.

It's what happens when people stick their faces in other people's fun. Smells like Sharia Law to me.

393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:33:06am

re: #381 Cannadian Club Akbar

I didn't expect him to last long. Hell, he'd have a hard time surviving a scandal like that in L.A.

Roanoke had a weatherman scandal a few years back. Don't remember the details, but you leave Al Roker out of it!

394 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:33:10am

Outskis Againskis

395 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:34:57am

re: #392 Decatur Deb

We have a ton of those Sunday-only laws all across the US, blatantly linked to Christianity. It's something Jews have always been rather ironic about, since it means some Jews really have to plan ahead-- can't buy anything on shabbos, can't buy it on Sunday, either.

396 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:35:54am

re: #392 Decatur Deb

It's what happens when people stick their faces in other people's fun. Smells like Sharia Law to me.

On the flips side, I do like the "Dunk the Infidel" tank.:)

397 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:37:24am

re: #395 Obdicut

When my dad was young and forgot to buy beer, he crossed his state line to get some. (I think he was in Indiana at the time)

398 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:38:55am

re: #395 Obdicut

We have a ton of those Sunday-only laws all across the US, blatantly linked to Christianity. It's something Jews have always been rather ironic about, since it means some Jews really have to plan ahead-- can't buy anything on shabbos, can't buy it on Sunday, either.

It's easy to forget that. The tiny local Reform temple raises money for a Habitat house every couple years. I caught myself wondering why they weren't like the other churches, who always come out to build with us on Saturday.

399 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:40:59am

re: #397 Cannadian Club Akbar

When my dad was young and forgot to buy beer, he crossed his state line to get some. (I think he was in Indiana at the time)

My best friend lost his 14-yr old daughter, driving at night with a bunch of kids from a dry KY county to the nearest package store.

400 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:41:19am

re: #395 Obdicut

Went to a Ruby Tuesday's once in Arkansas, was alone, I told the hostess I was just going to sit at the bar... she laughed and said, "There's no bar!?! This is a dry county!".

I swear? I felt like that scene from PeeWee's Big Adventure when PeeWee's touring the Alamo and asks, "When do we get to see the basement." and the tour guide says, "There's no basement at the Alamo!"

401 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:42:57am

re: #395 Obdicut

We have a ton of those Sunday-only laws all across the US, blatantly linked to Christianity. It's something Jews have always been rather ironic about, since it means some Jews really have to plan ahead-- can't buy anything on shabbos, can't buy it on Sunday, either.

We have Blue Laws in Michigan. I can't buy wine at the kosher grocery on Sunday morning, not even if it is the day before a Yom Tov.

402 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:50:15am

re: #401 Alouette

When I traveled that area; it took me a while to get accustomed to the EXTREMELY APPROPRIATE name "Party Store".

404 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:52:36am

re: #402 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When I traveled that area; it took me a while to get accustomed to the EXTREMELY APPROPRIATE name "Party Store".

"Party store" = Michigan-speak for liquor store.

405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:54:21am

re: #403 Alouette

Heck we had Retail (not just alcohol) Blue Laws in Virginia until a little five and dime company from Roanoke challenged it.

You could only buy food. Even large supermarkets had entire areas blocked off on Sunday. You could buy a hamburger patty, but you couldn't buy a grill.

406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:56:03am

re: #404 Alouette

"Party store" = Michigan-speak for liquor store.

I know! But I felt like such a dork! Kept seeing these stores my itinerary when I was heading up to Detroit and thought, "Damn, these people must buy a TON of streamers and balloons!"

I swear! That's what I thought.

407 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:56:11am

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heck we had Retail (not just alcohol) Blue Laws in Virginia until a little five and dime company from Roanoke challenged it.

You could only buy food. Even large supermarkets had entire areas blocked off on Sunday. You could buy a hamburger patty, but you couldn't buy a grill.

If you look at the link in #403, you will see that Virginia Blue Laws have been challenged since 1849. Apparently without much success.

408 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:57:06am

re: #405 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heck we had Retail (not just alcohol) Blue Laws in Virginia until a little five and dime company from Roanoke challenged it.

You could only buy food. Even large supermarkets had entire areas blocked off on Sunday. You could buy a hamburger patty, but you couldn't buy a grill.

Years ago in Elizabethtown, KY, the town set up a system to allow one pharmacy in turn stay open on Sunday for emergencies. It was seen as liberalization. (Also a dry county.)

409 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:57:17am

re: #406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know! But I felt like such a dork! Kept seeing these stores my itinerary when I was heading up to Detroit and thought, "Damn, these people must buy a TON of streamers and balloons!"

I swear! That's what I thought.

Silly. That's the "paper goods" store (more commonly now the "Dollar" store)

410 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:00:26am

The pubs don't open here til 11am (earlier in England), and stores won't sell liquor until 11am either. last week Jimmah and I were at the supermarket and this guy walks in, yells at the cashier "D'ye have alcohol?" She says yes, he yells back, "Where is it?"

Clearly an emergency. /

411 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:00:37am

I'm sitting on my friend's carport, laptop on a picnic table. Went inside to grab a tissue to blow my nose. Some douchebag in a minivan was sitting at the end of the driveway looking at my computer, the took off when I walked out. Man, some people.

412 Flounder  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:02:29am

re: #411 Cannadian Club Akbar
If it weren't for arseholes like you leaving your valuables out, their wouldn't be any thievery. (see Full Metal Jacket)
/

413 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:02:44am

re: #410 iceweasel

We have a bar here that opens at 7AM. I used to go to a bar in Hallandale (near Ft. Lauderdale) that closed at 6AM and reopened at 7AM.

414 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:02:53am

re: #410 iceweasel

The pubs don't open here til 11am (earlier in England), and stores won't sell liquor until 11am either. last week Jimmah and I were at the supermarket and this guy walks in, yells at the cashier "D'ye have alcohol?" She says yes, he yells back, "Where is it?"

Clearly an emergency. /

When I visited Moscow several years ago, alcohol was sold everywhere, even on street-corner kiosks, and the adult beverages section was the largest section in any grocery store.

Also, people would just guzzle out on the street, not even bothering to hide their bottle in a paper bag like the winos do here.

And at gas stations! You could buy vodka at a gas station! And drive with an open container.

415 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:04:19am

re: #414 Alouette

My wife has told me that when you're doing patient surveys of Russian patients, you have to distinguish between 'drinking' and 'drinking vodka'.

So you might ask a Russian if he drinks often, and he'll say no, only once a week. Then you say "What about vodka?" and he goes "Oh, sure, yes, vodka every day."

416 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:05:20am

re: #409 Alouette

Silly. That's the "paper goods" store (more commonly now the "Dollar" store)

Best dollar store name I ever saw was years back in Toronto. Was called "Loonies"*.

:)

* - For those not familiar with Canadian currency the 1 CDN coin has a loon on it. When they issued a 2 CDN coin it was named the "Two-nie" by default.

417 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:06:50am

re: #410 iceweasel

The pubs don't open here til 11am (earlier in England), and stores won't sell liquor until 11am either. last week Jimmah and I were at the supermarket and this guy walks in, yells at the cashier "D'ye have alcohol?" She says yes, he yells back, "Where is it?"

Clearly an emergency. /

That would be a partial explaination for the periodic invasions of northern England by the Scots. Lemming-like elimination of the excess Scottish aristocracy, and it was before 11am.

418 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:07:14am

re: #416 oaktree

But now you have to explain what a Loon is for those who don't know. (I know now,but not until I live in Canada)

419 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:10:30am

re: #418 Cannadian Club Akbar

But now you have to explain what a Loon is for those who don't know. (I know now,but not until I live in Canada)

Oh that. A lake-dwelling bird with an awesome cry that sends shivers up your spine when you hear it at dusk or dawn while the mist is rising off the quiet surface of the lake. It temporary distracts you from the fact that the mosquitoes are draining you dry one small sip at a time.

I much prefer this kind of loon to the political kind.

420 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:13:24am

The Italians have a fairly sane approach to booze, but I remember standing in a turnpike rest area bar, watching two motorcycle cops knock back their 7 AM heart-starter.

421 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:13:38am

Good morning Lizards. Quiet so far here in Philadelphia. And a much better morning than yesterday since I have condensed milk for mixing into my Brazilian coffee. The cat overlords were fed and the one not informed that she goes to see the vet today.

Hey, I'm the center of my perceptive universe and thus allowed to set my own priorities. ;)

422 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:14:52am

re: #420 Decatur Deb

Youtube Video
423 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:14:59am

re: #414 Alouette

When I visited Moscow several years ago, alcohol was sold everywhere, even on street-corner kiosks, and the adult beverages section was the largest section in any grocery store.

Also, people would just guzzle out on the street, not even bothering to hide their bottle in a paper bag like the winos do here.

A Russian I know told me that vodka was simply anti-freeze for dealing with the winter...

424 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:17:09am

re: #418 Cannadian Club Akbar

But now you have to explain what a Loon is for those who don't know. (I know now,but not until I live in Canada)

I've seen "On Golden Pond", you dork!

425 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:17:49am

Morning Lizardim. Fall has set in with a vengeance here in the wild north country, with temperatures projected to fall below freezing tonight. Now comes the true test of my little old Volkswagen diesel that I acquired for the purpose of my long drive to work.

426 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:17:58am

re: #424 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've seen "On Golden Pond", you dork!

I've never seen it.

427 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:19:18am

re: #418 Cannadian Club Akbar

But now you have to explain what a Loon is for those who don't know. (I know now,but not until I live in Canada)

That would be the Minnesota state bird. I've gone fishing with the loons before, those things are crazy. They'll swim right under your boat. Had one pop up about five yards away from us, made us both jump when he surfaced.

428 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:21:52am

re: #427 thedopefishlives

That would be the Minnesota state bird. I've gone fishing with the loons before, those things are crazy. They'll swim right under your boat. Had one pop up about five yards away from us, made us both jump when he surfaced.

Could have been worse. Since it was Minnesota it could have been Michelle Bachmann that surfaced...
//

429 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:22:39am

re: #428 oaktree

Could have been worse. Since it was Minnesota it could have been Michelle Bachmann that surfaced...
//

Yeah, right. Like she'd ever sully herself by swimming in one of our lakes. She prefers the shark pool.

430 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:23:31am

re: #428 oaktree

Could have been worse. Since it was Minnesota it could have been Michelle Bachmann that surfaced...
//

Well, she is a loon.

431 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:25:04am

Here's a warm and fuzzy exchange from "On Golden Pond". 12 year old kid (I thought it was Ricky Schroeder, but it's not) and the old man (played by Henry Fonda).

Billy Ray: So, I heard you turned 80 today.
Norman: Is that what you heard?
Billy Ray: Yeah. Man, that's really old.
Norman: You should meet my father.
Billy Ray: Your father's still alive?
Norman: No, but you should meet him.

432 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:28:30am

Question for gardeners: this is the first year that I've grown pumpkins. I imagine (since everyone grows them around here) that they will stand up to our predicted fall frosts without protection, between now and Halloween.

Am I right? Or do I need to put some newspaper over them or something?

433 Flounder  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:30:17am

re: #425 thedopefishlives

I got one, love it, my first winter in the car this year too.

434 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:31:28am

Another reason to post only on LGF:

Reddit Users Find New Way To Be Assholes

435 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:32:01am

re: #431 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Jane Fonda and Henry are in this movie...

Chelsea Thayer Wayne: It just seems like we've been mad at each other for so long...
Norman: I didn't think we were mad; I just thought we didn't like each other.

Kid and the old man again

Billy Ray: That's bullshit.
Norman: You like that word, don't you? Bullshit.
Billy Ray: Yeah
Norman: It's a good word

Really, CCA. Great movie dialogue all of the way through the movie. See it when you can.

436 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:34:32am

Alrighty. Gonna get a 20 minute nap before hitting the temp job, which ends Friday.:(
See ya'll tonight.

437 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:37:19am

re: #433 Shropshire_Slasher

I got one, love it, my first winter in the car this year too.

It's a fun little car. It's been a bit of a project for me as well, which is good because I've been needing something to fill evenings where I don't feel like playing games or falling asleep in front of the TV.

438 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:37:46am

Grunt. Mmmm, watery coffee.

439 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:38:53am

re: #438 Gus 802

Weak coffee is an insult to mankind.

440 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:39:54am

re: #439 Obdicut

Weak coffee is an insult to mankind.

Yep. I can always grab the coffee machine from my car and make my own. Been doing that the past few days. Thought I'd give the Motel6 stuff a shot. I've got a backup plan!

441 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:43:01am

re: #432 iossarian

Question for gardeners: this is the first year that I've grown pumpkins. I imagine (since everyone grows them around here) that they will stand up to our predicted fall frosts without protection, between now and Halloween.

Am I right? Or do I need to put some newspaper over them or something?

Think you're covered:

"WHEN the frost is on the punkin and the fodder's in the shock,
And you hear the kyouck and gobble of the struttin' turkey-cock,
And the clackin' of the guineys, and the cluckin' of the hens,
And the rooster's hallylooyer as he tiptoes on the fence;
O, it's then the time a feller is a-feelin' at his best,"

Learn how to store them--a few hundred pounds of improperly stored pumpkins is my worst gardening horror-story.

442 BishopX  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:43:15am

re: #432 iossarian

I believe pumpkins shouldn't be harvested until after the first frost. Makes them sweeter. So they should be fine.

443 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:43:44am

re: #440 Gus 802

Yep. I can always grab the coffee machine from my car and make my own. Been doing that the past few days. Thought I'd give the Motel6 stuff a shot. I've got a backup plan!

yay, Gus! How goes it Comrade?

444 BishopX  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:44:28am

re: #442 BishopX

gah, partial post clutter.

445 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:45:10am

re: #443 iceweasel

yay, Gus! How goes it Comrade?

Ice! Sleepy. Worried. About my own life of course. I'm one hour from Denver. Got a place to stay once I'm there. Gotta see what's going on if you know what I mean. How are you doing?

446 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:46:22am

Bob Turner won in New York. Yes, that's Anthony Weiner's old seat. Bob Turner the Teabagger. Weiner's seat. Now, see what I mean about voters being unpredictable? Anywho. That's all she wrote...

447 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:47:07am

re: #298 ibob

Mono will drop your immune system. I have also seen it reactivate in people on long term steroids or medications for autoimmune disorders (both of which lower the immune system). The biggest cause of a low immune system in this country is chronic stress which is very common in women. Women usually have three full time jobs - paycheck job, child or elder care, and a household to run. People get paid full time money (altough sometimes minimum wage) to perform these jobs. Men usually have 1 1/2 jobs - paycheck job and a part time job helping their wife wth her other 2 full time jobs. However, she usually has to tell him want needs to be done. Of course, not all men have to be told, but I live in the South and most of my patients' husbands have to be told.
. . . .

Very interesting to hear you say that.

I retired in 2007. My husband was nervous about it - I think he was afraid I would "get in his way" during the weeks when he's home.

I'm still busy all the time - but I'm no longer completely stressed out or exhausted. And now if I say anything about going back to work, my husband discourages me - I think he found out pretty quickly that when I retired, not only did my life get less stressful, so did his. He no longer has to run around doing things that need doing that I can't do because I'm at work. His life got easier, as well as mine.

And I don't think it's limited to the South.

448 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:48:18am

G.O.P. Gains House Seat Vacated by Weiner

A little-known Republican businessman from Queens, channeling voter discontent with President Obama into an upset, won election to Congress on Tuesday from the heavily Democratic district in New York City last represented by Anthony D. Weiner.

The Republican, Bob Turner, a retired cable television executive, defeated Assemblyman David I. Weprin, the scion of a prominent Democratic family in Queens, in a nationally watched special election.

With 84 percent of the precincts counted early Wednesday, Mr. Turner was leading Mr. Weprin by 54 percent to 46 percent, according to The Associated Press.

National Republican leaders immediately trumpeted the victory as a sign of trouble for Mr. Obama’s re-election effort. “An unpopular President Obama is now a liability for Democrats nationwide,” Representative Pete Sessions of Texas, the chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, said in a statement.

But Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee, said the district’s large concentration of Orthodox Jews made it unusual and meant the race had few national ramifications.

Continues.

449 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:49:09am

re: #448 Gus 802

G.O.P. Gains House Seat Vacated by Weiner

...an upset, won election to Congress on Tuesday from the heavily Democratic district in New York City last represented by Anthony D. Weiner...

450 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:49:28am

re: #448 Gus 802

G.O.P. Gains House Seat Vacated by Weiner

Drudge is calling it "Revenge of the Jews"

Gah.

451 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:49:43am

re: #445 Gus 802

Ice! Sleepy. Worried. About my own life of course. I'm one hour from Denver. Got a place to stay once I'm there. Gotta see what's going on if you know what I mean. How are you doing?

One hour from Denver, woo-hoo! Drive safe!

All is well here; Jimmah is working til late. He cooked last night which was very tasty, but now I have the dreaded kitchen cleanup to follow---

Just posted a page about a new meme, the men's rights activist marmoset!
[Link: mramarmoset.tumblr.com...]

452 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:50:52am

re: #451 iceweasel

One hour from Denver, woo-hoo! Drive safe!

All is well here; Jimmah is working til late. He cooked last night which was very tasty, but now I have the dreaded kitchen cleanup to follow---

Just posted a page about a new meme, the men's rights activist marmoset!
[Link: mramarmoset.tumblr.com...]

Aren't those usually for divorced men with an attitude?

453 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:52:15am

re: #450 Alouette

Drudge is calling it "Revenge of the Jews"

Gah.

Weiner was a good representative--except for the part about being an idiot.

454 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:52:40am

re: #450 Alouette

Drudge is calling it "Revenge of the Jews"

Gah.

Well, whatever it was Bob Turner won and the GOP took a seat in "a heavily Democratic" district. Optimism is for the naive.

455 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:53:40am

re: #439 Obdicut

Weak coffee is an insult to mankind.

Better weak than Staryucks style where they burn the beans in the roaster. Ugh!

456 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:53:48am

Apologies in advance if I vanish, the laptop is acting very wonky...

457 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:54:04am

re: #451 iceweasel

Haha. Awesome and true.

Image: tumblr_lrhci2FCwH1r2lyhso1_400.jpg

458 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:54:17am

And knowing Dems they probably went into this thinking "we can't possibly lose here!" Then they ran a very weak candidate...

459 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:55:01am

re: #458 Gus 802

And knowing Dems they probably went into this thinking "we can't possibly lose here!" Then they ran a very weak candidate...

Marsha Coakley Effect.

460 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:55:27am

And those pesky polls! I tell ya' they had Bob Turner ahead all along. See! Ya' can't trust those polls what with their maths and science and stuff.

//

461 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:57:33am

re: #457 iossarian

Haha. Awesome and true.

Image: tumblr_lrhci2FCwH1r2lyhso1_400.jpg

It's great, isn't it? Glad you're enjoying!

re: #452 Gus 802

Aren't those usually for divorced men with an attitude?

Not exclusively, all misogynist men are welcomed. / Like this one:

The ideology that women act on is the ideology of Pol Pot, of the Killing Fields. Women want non-alpha men purged and intelligence is considered by women to be a lack of alphaness in a man. This is similar to the ideology that led to the killing fields. Many of the millions who were murdered by the Khmer Rouge in the Killing Fields were murdered for showing signs of intelligence. That included everything from education to the possesion of wristwatches and/or glasses. If modern geeky hobbies had existed in Cambodia in the 70s, I’m sure that would have been included along with wristwatches and glasses as evidence of intelligence, and anyone interested in geeky hobbies would have been murdered too.

Not getting a date is JUST LIKE genocide!

Gödwindämmerung: Women who won’t date nerds are like Pol Pot

462 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:57:33am

re: #435 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Jane Fonda and Henry are in this movie...

Chelsea Thayer Wayne: It just seems like we've been mad at each other for so long...
Norman: I didn't think we were mad; I just thought we didn't like each other.

Kid and the old man again

Billy Ray: That's bullshit.
Norman: You like that word, don't you? Bullshit.
Billy Ray: Yeah
Norman: It's a good word

Really, CCA. Great movie dialogue all of the way through the movie. See it when you can.

Norman had that not-tolerant-of-fools crankiness that I always associated with Walter. Plus that dialogue shines a bit more if you read it imagining Henry Fonda snapping out those lines.

Not mentioned so far is that Norman's wife is played by Katherine Hepburn - so you know that Norman has been kept in check by that formidable personality.

463 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:58:06am

re: #456 iceweasel

Apologies in advance if I vanish, the laptop is acting very wonky...

Kick It (tm)

464 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:59:18am

re: #461 iceweasel

It's great, isn't it? Glad you're enjoying!

re: #452 Gus 802

Not exclusively, all misogynist men are welcomed. / Like this one:

Not getting a date is JUST LIKE genocide!

Gödwindämmerung: Women who won’t date nerds are like Pol Pot

Mmmm. Sounds like a psycho cult. I heard one guy on TV once. He was like this 60 something single loser that kept complaining about women. Forgot his name. One of their "leaders".

465 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:59:49am

re: #446 Gus 802

Bob Turner won in New York. Yes, that's Anthony Weiner's old seat. Bob Turner the Teabagger. Weiner's seat. Now, see what I mean about voters being unpredictable? Anywho. That's all she wrote...

I wonder how much credit they will give their blatant anti-Muslim mailer they sent out right before the election. I begin to think that the Tea Party and the GOP keep learning all the wrong behaviors from results such as this.

466 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:00:06am

This ain't gonna work. BRB. Gonna go get the coffee machine.

467 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:01:11am

re: #461 iceweasel

Not getting a date is JUST LIKE genocide!

Gödwindämmerung: Women who won’t date nerds are like Pol Pot

Ugh. Why exactly are we seeing such a resurgence of these hateful old chestnuts? Racism, misogyny, anti-Semitism... They're all getting recycled again.

468 BishopX  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:04:11am

re: #467 thedopefishlives

They never went away.

469 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:05:39am

re: #464 Gus 802

Mmmm. Sounds like a psycho cult. I heard one guy on TV once. He was like this 60 something single loser that kept complaining about women. Forgot his name. One of their "leaders".

Once your nearly absolute power and authority starts slipping everything is a zero-sum game.

470 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:05:56am

re: #468 BishopX

They never went away.

Well, yeah, but less prevalent, I guess. Now it seems that they're becoming acceptable and even encouraged.

471 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:06:58am

re: #469 oaktree

Once your nearly absolute power and authority starts slipping everything is a zero-sum game.

Exactly. Old white straight men crying about their loss of privilege.

472 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:07:55am

re: #469 oaktree

Once your nearly absolute power and authority starts slipping everything is a zero-sum game.

I'm single. But I make it a point not to blame women for my being single. The reason I'm single now is because I haven't done anything about it. Of course, this all changed during the Summer. I decided to put myself out there again. Tired of being single. It's boring.

But that's who makes up a large portion of these nutcases. Single men that blame women for their own choices and behavior. They're a bunch of losers.

473 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:10:10am

Image: gal_caius_veiovis.jpg

474 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:12:49am

re: #473 Gus 802

Image: gal_caius_veiovis.jpg

Whoa.

475 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:12:57am

Yeah. It's ALL Welprin's fault. That's a safe narrative.

//

476 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:16:25am

I wonder if getting the "machine players" out of politics -- or maybe even just out of the Democratic Party -- would make a difference.

Up here in South Canada, we had a reasonably popular Democratic governor, Joe Brennan, who won the gubernatorial elections of 1978 and 1982.

Maine has the limitation that a person can serve only two consecutive four-year terms as Governor. He or she can then run again, but only after different person has assumed the office for a four-year term.

So after Brennan's eight years in the Blaine House, Joe apparently didn't know what to do with himself, and he once again ran for Governor in 1990.

He lost to the Republican, John McKernan (Mr. Olympia Snowe, for those unaware.)

Four years later, in 1994, he again ran for Governor.

And lost to the Independent, Angus King.

Two years after that, he ran for the U.S. Senate.

And lost to the Republican, Susan Collins.

Joe stopped running after that.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- Albert Einstein.

477 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:19:13am

re: #471 iceweasel

Exactly. Old white straight men crying about their loss of privilege.

Henry: “I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life.”

- The Lion in Winter

478 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:21:05am

re: #476 BongCrodny

I wonder if getting the "machine players" out of politics -- or maybe even just out of the Democratic Party -- would make a difference.

Up here in South Canada, we had a reasonably popular Democratic governor, Joe Brennan, who won the gubernatorial elections of 1978 and 1982.

Maine has the limitation that a person can serve only two consecutive four-year terms as Governor. He or she can then run again, but only after different person has assumed the office for a four-year term.

So after Brennan's eight years in the Blaine House, Joe apparently didn't know what to do with himself, so he once again ran for Governor in 1990.

He lost to the Republican, John McKernan (Mr. Olympia Snowe, for hose unaware.)

Four years later, in 1994, he again ran for Governor.

And lost to the Independent, Angus King.

Two years after that, he ran for the U.S. Senate.

And lost to the Republican, Susan Collins.

Joe stopped running after that.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- Albert Einstein.

All I know is that there is no Tea Party equivalent on the Democratic end of things here in the USA. The more progressive candidates are typically ignored if not shunned. If that's a good campaign strategy I don't know. Some more populism would help. So would more non-millionaire Democrats -- many of whom seem not to give a crap about the working person. Yes, I said that. Allen West won in a a primarily Democratic Party district. One fact remains. Democrats and Republicans are no longer in the majority. The majority of American voters are independents.

479 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:23:36am

re: #477 oaktree

Henry: “I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life.”

- The Lion in Winter

Just watched Witches of Eastwick the other day. The best scene is in the church, Jack nicholson losing his shit:

WOMEN! Did God do it to us ON PURPOSE?!

480 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:24:13am

re: #478 Gus 802

All I know is that there is no Tea Party equivalent on the Democratic end of things here in the USA. The more progressive candidates are typically ignored if not shunned. If that's a good campaign strategy I don't know. Some more populism would help. So would more non-millionaire Democrats -- many of whom seem not to give a crap about the working person. Yes, I said that. Allen West won in a a primarily Democratic Party district. One fact remains. Democrats and Republicans are no longer in the majority. The majority of American voters are independents.

ANSWER is about as close as you get, and they're tiny. Wife and I walked away halfway through their last anti-war demonstration.

481 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:24:30am

re: #478 Gus 802

Some more populism would help. So would more non-millionaire Democrats -- many of whom seem not to give a crap about the working person. Yes, I said that.

because it's true!

482 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:25:28am

The anti-feminist movement has a lot in common with the anti-affirmative action one. Both are based on the faulty logic that attempts to help one oppressed group are an attack on me, because I am not part of the elite, privileged group (or at least I don't perceive that I am).

One caveat is that the logic is faulty only if feminism and affirmative action are part of a wider attempt to redress inequality in general. The reasoning can actually become valid if instead they are used to defend a (slightly modified) stratification of society, which is why I get irritated with what I would call "boardroom feminism".

But I do think that the bigger problem is definitely people who fear the loss of their privilege and will (often unconsciously) oppose attempts to make society more fair as a result.

483 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:26:33am

re: #480 Decatur Deb

ANSWER is about as close as you get, and they're tiny. Wife and I walked away halfway through their last anti-war demonstration.

Yeah. And you know what ANSWER's goal is?

484 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:26:37am

re: #482 iossarian

What's boardroom feminism?

485 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:26:46am

re: #442 BishopX

I believe pumpkins shouldn't be harvested until after the first frost. Makes them sweeter. So they should be fine.

As long as it's not a killing frost.

The song (Wildfire) has occasionally appeared in "bad song" surveys, such as one by humor columnist Dave Barry in the 1990s. He quoted one reader who, in reference to the song's tale of the loss of a woman and a pony in a "killing frost," pointed out that "'killing' in 'killing frost' refers to your flowers and your garden vegetables, and when one is forecast you should cover your tomatoes ... Nobody ever got lost in a killing frost who wouldn't get lost in July as well.

486 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:28:38am

re: #478 Gus 802

All I know is that there is no Tea Party equivalent on the Democratic end of things here in the USA.

Code Pink has joined the Tea Party. I don't know if that is due to ideology or because they think the TP's are the ones who are getting all the attention.

487 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:29:21am

re: #483 Gus 802

Yeah. And you know what ANSWER's goal is?

They didn't seem able to focus on a single goal, even for an afternoon. That's one reason we gave up on their free-floating anti-everythingism. Nice papier-mache puppets, though.

488 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:29:34am

re: #458 Gus 802

Weprin wasn't exactly a weak candidate. He's a bland candidate who has a sterling pedigree. His dad was the Assembly Speaker, he was a councilman and assemblyman from adjoining areas but in politics it takes more than a bland candidate to win. It didn't help that Weprin was not eligible to vote in the election b/c he lives outside the district for some who saw him as trying to capitalize on the political situation.

Turner had run for the seat previously, but lost by a sizable margin against Weiner. However, he managed to tap in to the anger and managed to convince enough of the voters who did turn out in the special election that he deserved a shot at the seat formerly held by Weiner, Schumer, and Geraldine Ferraro. It was the district I used to live in back when Ferraro and Schumer were the reps (and the border has changed slightly since due to redistricting).

Turner's win may not count for much though as the seat may end up being redistricted out of existence (combined with a neighboring district giving a leg up to one of the incumbents there).

489 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:29:35am

re: #486 Alouette

Code Pink has joined the Tea Party. I don't know if that is due to ideology or because they think the TP's are the ones who are getting all the attention.

I'm guessing the latter, but they're probably also attracted to the faux-populist, grassroots-y vibe the tea party desperately wants to give off.

490 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:30:18am

re: #478 Gus 802

Some more populism would help. So would more non-millionaire Democrats -- many of whom seem not to give a crap about the working person.

QFT.

Here's one of the guys Joe beat in the 1996 Senate primary:

Sean Faircloth (born 1960/1961)[1] is a Maine attorney and politician. He served five terms in the Maine Legislature. Faircloth served on the Judiciary and Appropriations Committee. In his final term, Faircloth was elected Majority Whip. In 2009 Faircloth became executive director of the Secular Coalition for America, advocating for separation of church and state, and for greater acceptance of nontheistic viewpoints in American life.

But I guess too many people like the safe choice, even though it might mean a whuppin' at the polls in November.

491 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:31:03am

re: #462 oaktree

One of my favorites. I freakin' love Kate Hepburn anyway.

Heard a Paul Harvey, "The Rest of the Story" on her once. According to the story; After her brother's accidental death (trying to recreate a hanging scene from a play) she didn't speak for a few years and theatre is how she came out of it.

May be horseshit, but I like the story.

Of course, Paul Harvey on the Rest of the Story once spoke of Abraham Lincoln's death by an indian; and it turned out to be true.

492 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:31:27am

re: #488 lawhawk

Weprin wasn't exactly a weak candidate. He's a bland candidate who has a sterling pedigree. His dad was the Assembly Speaker, he was a councilman and assemblyman from adjoining areas but in politics it takes more than a bland candidate to win. It didn't help that Weprin was not eligible to vote in the election b/c he lives outside the district for some who saw him as trying to capitalize on the political situation.

Turner had run for the seat previously, but lost by a sizable margin against Weiner. However, he managed to tap in to the anger and managed to convince enough of the voters who did turn out in the special election that he deserved a shot at the seat formerly held by Weiner, Schumer, and Geraldine Ferraro. It was the district I used to live in back when Ferraro and Schumer were the reps (and the border has changed slightly since due to redistricting).

Turner's win may not count for much though as the seat may end up being redistricted out of existence (combined with a neighboring district giving a leg up to one of the incumbents there).

In my estimation the idea that it was all Weprin's fault is a weak argument. It's basically done to comfort one's own personal "feelings" about politics. There's a lot more at play here than Weprin.

493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:32:07am

re: #488 lawhawk

But hadn't it been a (D) seat since fish walked upon land?

494 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:33:20am

re: #485 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As long as it's not a killing frost.

The song (Wildfire) has occasionally appeared in "bad song" surveys, such as one by humor columnist Dave Barry in the 1990s. He quoted one reader who, in reference to the song's tale of the loss of a woman and a pony in a "killing frost," pointed out that "'killing' in 'killing frost' refers to your flowers and your garden vegetables, and when one is forecast you should cover your tomatoes ... Nobody ever got lost in a killing frost who wouldn't get lost in July as well.

It boggles my tiny little brain to this very day that the same guy who wrote "Geronimo's Cadillac" wrote "Wildfire."

495 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:33:38am

re: #484 iceweasel

What's boardroom feminism?

Well, it's a bad phrase.

I guess it's the marriage of "feminism" (stripped down to career advancement) to consumerism. Maybe a slogan of "women should be just as able as men to assume exploitative positions in society". To me it's typified by the likes of Bachmann and Palin.

I don't think it's a position that's actually espoused by many people who would describe themselves as a "feminist", but I do think it's how capitalism essentially tries to co-opt and defuse feminism.

Please feel free to disagree and challenge my views - it's not something that I have particularly clear in my head.

496 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:33:59am

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But hadn't it been a (D) seat since fish walked upon land?

Fish come from monkeys. Did you know that?

//

497 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:35:57am

re: #487 Decatur Deb

They didn't seem able to focus on a single goal, even for an afternoon. That's one reason we gave up on their free-floating anti-everythingism. Nice papier-mache puppets, though.

I was thinking more along the lines of a rational Howard Dean. Of course now he's pimping for Big Pharma. Irony.

498 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:37:08am

re: #495 iossarian

Well, it's a bad phrase.

I guess it's the marriage of "feminism" (stripped down to career advancement) to consumerism. Maybe a slogan of "women should be just as able as men to assume exploitative positions in society". To me it's typified by the likes of Bachmann and Palin.

I don't think it's a position that's actually espoused by many people who would describe themselves as a "feminist", but I do think it's how capitalism essentially tries to co-opt and defuse feminism.

Please feel free to disagree and challenge my views - it's not something that I have particularly clear in my head.

Well, I guess there's a kind, the Bachmann-Palin kind, that is merely summed up by "Anything a man can do I can do too", but "what a man can do" is strictly defined in capitalistic terms. Not so much changing society but making more room at the top for some women.

499 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:37:12am

re: #484 iceweasel

What's boardroom feminism?

re: #495 iossarian

Well, it's a bad phrase.

I guess it's the marriage of "feminism" (stripped down to career advancement) to consumerism. Maybe a slogan of "women should be just as able as men to assume exploitative positions in society". To me it's typified by the likes of Bachmann and Palin.

I don't think it's a position that's actually espoused by many people who would describe themselves as a "feminist", but I do think it's how capitalism essentially tries to co-opt and defuse feminism.

Please feel free to disagree and challenge my views - it's not something that I have particularly clear in my head.

It reminds me of Hillary Clinton sitting in the Walmart boardroom, assuring that equal numbers of men and women would be given minimum wage jobs with no healthplan.

500 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:37:46am

re: #496 Gus 802

Fish come from monkeys. Did you know that?

//

You can't explain that!

501 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:37:50am

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But hadn't it been a (D) seat since fish walked upon land?

As compared to NY-25 being Republican since dirt came into existance?

502 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:37:51am

re: #495 iossarian

I guess it's the marriage of "feminism" (stripped down to career advancement) to consumerism. Maybe a slogan of "women should be just as able as men to assume exploitative positions in society".

East Timor's First Female Dictator Hailed As Step Forward For Women

Amivi Gama's violent rise to power has proved that women are just as capable as men when it comes to brutality and oppression.

503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:39:00am

re: #494 BongCrodny

Carolina in the Pines.

I didn't think Wildfire was a terrible song. Just posted that from Wiki. The opening piano sappy shit was teh suck, though.

504 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:39:50am

re: #499 Decatur Deb

re: #495 iossarian

It reminds me of Hillary Clinton sitting in the Walmart boardroom, assuring that equal numbers of men and women would be given minimum wage jobs with no healthplan.

Walmart has found a perfect "jobs" strategy: hire 2 part-time workers to do the job of one. 2 new jobs created, and neither are eligible for benefits!

505 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:39:59am

re: #499 Decatur Deb

re: #495 iossarian

It reminds me of Hillary Clinton sitting in the Walmart boardroom, assuring that equal numbers of men and women would be given minimum wage jobs with no healthplan.

Right - this is it.

I think there's a positive side to it, though, in the sense that you would hope that, if you got six Hillaries on the board, you might then actually see some change. I think that's a fair justification for the approach.

So I don't know. Maybe it's a necessary stage in a gradual progressivism. I think a big part of being a liberal is deciding which battles to pick, and when.

506 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:40:21am

re: #502 publicityStunted

East Timor's First Female Dictator Hailed As Step Forward For Women

One small step for a woman; one giant leap backward for humankind.

507 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:41:20am

re: #482 iossarian

The anti-feminist movement has a lot in common with the anti-affirmative action one. Both are based on the faulty logic that attempts to help one oppressed group are an attack on me, because I am not part of the elite, privileged group (or at least I don't perceive that I am).

One caveat is that the logic is faulty only if feminism and affirmative action are part of a wider attempt to redress inequality in general. The reasoning can actually become valid if instead they are used to defend a (slightly modified) stratification of society, which is why I get irritated with what I would call "boardroom feminism".

But I do think that the bigger problem is definitely people who fear the loss of their privilege and will (often unconsciously) oppose attempts to make society more fair as a result.

Part of the backlash is also the standard class warfare trick of trying to blame things on an "other" group in the same lower class and claiming they are the real enemy.

Similar to the "10 cookie joke" punchline about the other guy trying to take the one cookie from the party of the second while the party of the first claims nine as his just reward.

508 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:41:23am

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But hadn't it been a (D) seat since fish walked upon land?

That's true. A Republican had never won it.

I didn't follow that contest very closely, but I'll say this - every time I heard Weprin on the radio I cringed. The guy sounded whiny and weak. So did the guy who beat him, but Weprin's big argument was that his opponent had no experience in government, and that was a weak argument.

I think the fault lies not entirely with Weprin, but also with the people who picked him to be a candidate. I don't care how connected to the Queens Dem machine he is - it was a bad idea to have him run.

509 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:41:54am

Woman strip-searched after 9/11 flight landed

DETROIT - An Ohio woman who was one of three people taken off an airplane at Detroit's airport and questioned on the 10th anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks says she was shocked when armed officers stopped at her row and ordered her off.

Shoshana Hebshi, 35, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Tuesday that she believes she was targeted because of her Middle Eastern appearance. Hebshi, who describes herself as half-Arabic, half-Jewish with a dark complexion, said she endured nearly four hours in police custody that included being forced off an airplane in handcuffs, strip-searched and interrogated.

Authorities say fighter jets escorted the Denver-to-Detroit Frontier Airlines flight after its crew reported that two people were spending a long time in a bathroom — the two men sitting next to Hebshi in the 12th row.

Continues.

510 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:42:16am

re: #501 oaktree

Okay. What do you mean? Saw (D) seat since 1923 on the article. Is it not relevant?

25? Don't live in NY, and too lazy to google it. That's the one that the Tea Party screwed the pooch on, right? It was (IMO) an outright rejection of TP politics.

511 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:43:13am

So. I take it that talking to Arab looking people on the plane means you might wind up being sucked into some "suspicious looking activity" scenario?

512 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:43:24am

Freedom.

513 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:43:32am

re: #509 Gus 802

Woman strip-searched after 9/11 flight landed

Celtic dragon put up a great page about that.

514 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:43:50am

re: #504 Alouette

Walmart has found a perfect "jobs" strategy: hire 2 part-time workers to do the job of one. 2 new jobs created, and neither are eligible for benefits!

RIght, and this for me ties it back to the Detroit conundrum: unions accepting low-wage positions for new workers and thus weakening their long-term standing in order to protect their veteran workers (and I'm not saying they were wrong to do this, by the way).

Always a question of when to fight, and when to compromise in the hope of future gains.

515 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:46:41am

re: #513 iceweasel

Celtic dragon put up a great page about that.

You know what it is? Basically it's more Homeland Security "SPAM". They do these things just to make it look like they're doing their job. But hey. Let's ignore the fact that the 9/11 hijackers could have been stopped at their first security checkpoint. And the fact that their VISA applications were obviously bogus yet approved by State.

Others will argue that this is the kind of thing we should expect. And that "it's worth it." I have to wonder how much these types of interdictions costs the American tax payer.

516 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:46:50am

re: #510 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay. What do you mean? Saw (D) seat since 1923 on the article. Is it not relevant?

25? Don't live in NY, and too lazy to google it. That's the one that the Tea Party screwed the pooch on, right? It was (IMO) an outright rejection of TP politics.

Well, first of all I think the results of special elections - especially at the single district levels - are overblown. Too many local issues that do not come out and as noted personalities really start playing a larger role. Secondly, that a district will always remain in a single party even with the current gerrymandering strategies is not a certainty.

517 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:47:14am

My oldest daughter always gets "extra attention" whenever she flies, because she's all olive-skinned and Middle-Easterny, and has a "foreign-sounding" name, but my two other daughters, who are much lighter than their sister, don't get the "special" treatment.

The same applies to Zedushka, because he's an elderly diabetic rabbi in a wheelchair, carrying his bag of tefillin and a CPAP machine.

518 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:48:46am

re: #515 Gus 802

I find most of the TSA utterly useless; a bomber hitting a security line is what I really fear, hundreds of people packed in tight.

I also regard the people who get super-angry about oh god my personal rights because some dude touched their body oh the horror as gibbering idiots, too.

But yeah, we waste shitloads of money on security on airplanes, and yet whenever the FBI tries to sneak something through to test it, they succeed.

So what are we achieving?

519 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:49:08am

re: #515 Gus 802

You know what it is? Basically it's more Homeland Security "SPAM". They do these things just to make it look like they're doing their job. But hey. Let's ignore the fact that the 9/11 hijackers could have been stopped at their first security checkpoint. And the fact that their VISA applications were obviously bogus yet approved by State.

And an FBI agent spotted that there was something funny about these immigrants taking flying classes...plus there's always the August 2001 memo, "Bin Laden determined to attack within the United States".

But hindsight always helps.

520 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:53:03am

re: #519 iceweasel

And an FBI agent spotted that there was something funny about these immigrants taking flying classes...plus there's always the August 2001 memo, "Bin Laden determined to attack within the United States".

But hindsight always helps.

Has there ever been a case where a terrorist acts had been thwarted with these cases? I don't think there has been. Basically they're firing blanks here. Diverting aircraft. Getting fighter escort. Being met with Homeland Security and FBI agents on the ground. Hours and hours of interrogations and strips searches. Yet not one of these people turned out to be terrorists.

521 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:54:59am

re: #520 Gus 802

The TSA has always been a "feel good" agency in my mind.

522 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:55:18am

re: #518 Obdicut

I find most of the TSA utterly useless; a bomber hitting a security line is what I really fear, hundreds of people packed in tight.

I also regard the people who get super-angry about oh god my personal rights because some dude touched their body oh the horror as gibbering idiots, too.

But yeah, we waste shitloads of money on security on airplanes, and yet whenever the FBI tries to sneak something through to test it, they succeed.

So what are we achieving?

It makes the bad guys' planning complex and cumbersome, and I doubt that the tiger team successes make the news.

523 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:55:24am

Let's just combine the missile defense shield, TSA, abstinence-only education, and voter 'fraud' prevention into one big agency and call it the Ministry of Failure.

524 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:56:32am

re: #520 Gus 802

Has there ever been a case where a terrorist acts had been thwarted with these cases? I don't think there has been. Basically they're firing blanks here. Diverting aircraft. Getting fighter escort. Being met with Homeland Security and FBI agents on the ground. Hours and hours of interrogations and strips searches. Yet not one of these people turned out to be terrorists.

The Detroit underpants bomber was only stopped because there happened to be a big, husky Dutch fellow in the seat next to him. If he had been sitting next to some little old lady, oh shit.

525 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:56:47am

re: #492 Gus 802

I happen to agree - Weprin wasn't entirely to blame for his loss, but just how much to apportion to him and how much credit to Turner or an anti-Obama sentiment remains to be seen.

The seat had a 2-1 D to R ratio and had been a reliable Democrat seat.

However, Nate Silver has noted that Obama underperformed in the district in 2008, so there's some discontent among Democrats in the district, which tends to be slightly more conservative than one might otherwise think. The Howard Beach area is more blue collar and conservative than at first glance, and there's a pretty conservative bloc of Jewish voters too.

526 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:56:49am

re: #523 Obdicut

Let's just combine the missile defense shield, TSA, abstinence-only education, and voter 'fraud' prevention into one big agency and call it the Ministry of Failure.

That'll be MiniFail in New Speak, you. Get with the program!

527 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:57:01am

re: #523 Obdicut

Let's just combine the missile defense shield, TSA, abstinence-only education, and voter 'fraud' prevention into one big agency and call it the Ministry of Failure.

Internet meme-ized it for you.

528 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:57:34am

re: #524 Alouette

The Detroit underpants bomber was only stopped because there happened to be a big, husky Dutch fellow in the seat next to him. If he had been sitting next to some little old lady, oh shit.

I was going to mention him. Then, after all of these diversions, strip searches, interrogations, etc., the Christmas Bomber goes through security.

529 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:59:25am

re: #521 Varek Raith

Security theater. Has been from the start.

530 Flounder  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:59:26am

re: #488 lawhawk
Lawhawk, howya makin out finding a contractor?

531 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:00:23am

You can easily enter the USA from the South border. Take a bus to a sanctuary city. Live in a Motel6 for a long time. Head to a gun show and arm yourself to the teeth (thanks to the NRA). Then, proceed with a terrorist act.

532 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:00:33am

re: #509 Gus 802

Whenever I see Half-Arab/Half-Jewish I think of "Romeo and Juliet", "West Side Story, "Gnomeo and Juliet" (well, not really).

533 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:01:16am

re: #521 Varek Raith

The TSA has always been a "feel good" agency in my mind.

Government job creation...
//

534 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:01:24am

re: #530 Shropshire_Slasher

Funny you ask, just got a call from Service Magic to see how things were going. Still getting estimates, and have to contact another company for an estimate, and then we'll figure things out.

535 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:01:29am

re: #529 lawhawk

Security theater. Has been from the start.

It's like painting rocks green to make it look like grass whenever the CO shows up for inspection.

//

536 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:03:18am

It's like cops that used to pull over guys with long hair thinking they'd catch a big drug dealer. Meanwhile, letting all of the guys with short hair drive by their small towns carrying kilos of cocaine. Better yet. Load up the C-135 with a couple of kilos.

//

537 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:04:02am

re: #518 Obdicut

So what are we achieving?

1. We are successfully aggravating the flying public.
2. We are employing otherwise un-employable people.

Seriously? Would be poor McDonalds employees.

538 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:04:10am

re: #536 Gus 802

It's like cops that used to pull over guys with long hair thinking they'd catch a big drug dealer. Meanwhile, letting all of the guys with short hair drive by their small towns carrying kilos of cocaine. Better yet. Load up the C-135 with a couple of kilos.

//

I meant C-141 but the C-135 would do. I must be showing my age.

539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:04:52am

re: #534 lawhawk

Funny you ask, just got a call from Service Magic to see how things were going. Still getting estimates, and have to contact another company for an estimate, and then we'll figure things out.

They're wanting to know if you want more contractors' names.

Forty Bucks. Forty Bucks. Forty Bucks...

540 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:04:55am

re: #538 Gus 802

I meant C-141 but the C-135 would do. I must be showing my age.

Wasteful government spending. A C-12 will do.

541 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:06:08am

I know there's a page on this, but it can't get too wide a distribution:

Ron Paul’s Campaign Manager Died of Pneumonia, Penniless and Uninsured

542 Flounder  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:07:40am

re: #534 lawhawk

The only reason I asked is because I have a friend who owns several apartments, and he puts together proposals for contractors to bid on, advertises in the paper, trade pubs etc, picks the lowest bidder. Seem like you got the bull by the horns tho...
I usually pick the contractor with the most beat up truck.

543 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:08:38am

re: #541 iceweasel

I know there's a page on this, but it can't get too wide a distribution:

Ron Paul’s Campaign Manager Died of Pneumonia, Penniless and Uninsured

But you'll be taken care of if you don't have any health insurance!

//

544 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:09:06am

This is an interesting blog entry from Texas Monthly - Paul Burka thinks Perry's back surgery didn't take, and he may not be up to the rigors of a long campaign.

Not Rick Perry’s night

545 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:09:09am

Perhaps a goad to male paranoia:

[Link: www.slate.com...]

546 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:09:52am

re: #543 Gus 802

But you'll be taken care of if you don't have any health insurance!

//

oddly enough, they never raised enough money for him and his mother was left with a 400K bill. Who'd a thunk it?

547 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:11:02am

re: #546 iceweasel

oddly enough, they never raised enough money for him and his mother was left with a 400K bill. Who'd a thunk it?

That's because libertarian market whizes don't know how to run a bake sale.

548 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:11:31am

re: #546 iceweasel

oddly enough, they never raised enough money for him and his mother was left with a 400K bill. Who'd a thunk it?

WTF? 400 grand? For what?

549 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:12:32am

TSA and police officers arrested in prescription drug bust

New York (CNN) -- Three Transportation Security Administration officers and two police officers are among 20 people arrested Tuesday on charges of conspiring to distribute tens of thousands of oxycodone painkillers for illegal sale from Florida to Connecticut, according to U.S. Attorney of Connecticut David B. Fein.

According to court documents, TSA and law enforcement officers accepted cash and gift cards to allow large quantities of the prescription drug and large sums of money to be transported between Florida and New York airports.

"In these times no one needs to be reminded about how dangerous it is when officers who have sworn to uphold the law accept money to 'look the other way'," Fein said.

Continues.

[Blowjob]

550 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:13:08am

The best country in the world!

Hahahahahaha!

551 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:13:31am

re: #548 Gus 802

WTF? 400 grand? For what?

You'd be amazed. Intensive care runs the bill up really, really fast.

552 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:14:12am

re: #551 iossarian

You'd be amazed. Intensive care runs the bill up really, really fast.

Yeah. It's heavily padded. That's why we have people living like kings and queens in this country.

553 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:14:45am

re: #549 Gus 802

Gift cards!

Here, look the other way on this box of painkillers and I'll give you a $50 Target voucher.

Makes me feel so much safer!

554 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:14:48am

That reminds me of when people were arguing that health insurance companies barely turn a profit. Too funny.

555 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:15:09am

re: #546 iceweasel

oddly enough, they never raised enough money for him and his mother was left with a 400K bill. Who'd a thunk it?

But he will always have "a place in Ron Paul's heart" even though that heart is two sizes too small.

556 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:15:16am

re: #548 Gus 802

WTF? 400 grand? For what?

medical bills are the number one cause of personal bankruptices in the US. Hence, 400K for pneumonia that wasn't treated right away.

557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:15:49am

re: #543 Gus 802

Where in the story does it say he wasn't taken care of? Even with the best care, some people die.

Looks like he was taken care of $400,000.00 worth. Mom presented with the bill; it won't be paid. But it looks like he was taken care of to me.

Not trying to be callous or argumentative (I hope), but you intimated that he wasn't taken care of medically.

558 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:16:01am

re: #548 Gus 802

WTF? 400 grand? For what?

In our rural hospital the cost range for a silly-assed outpatient kidney stone removal is $17-25,000. Don't ask how I know.

559 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:16:15am

re: #556 iceweasel

medical bills are the number one cause of personal bankruptices in the US. Hence, 400K for pneumonia that wasn't treated right away.

If he'd just gone to the right church, he'd have been fine.

560 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:16:31am

re: #555 Alouette

But he will always have "a place in Ron Paul's heart" even though that heart is two sizes too small.

Preexisting condition precluding Ron Paul from health insurance?

561 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:16:34am

re: #510 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Okay. What do you mean? Saw (D) seat since 1923 on the article. Is it not relevant?

25? Don't live in NY, and too lazy to google it. That's the one that the Tea Party screwed the pooch on, right? It was (IMO) an outright rejection of TP politics.

I think in NY 25 it was more about Paul Ryan's Medicare plan than the TP. The Republican endorsed the plan and the Democrat ran against it.

562 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:16:51am

Way OT: The wife and I saw a TV spot for this outfit last night. How people can run a scam like they're running and be allowed to stay in business, I'll never know.

Tronix Country

$2100 for a laptop - and you have to pay it off in a year. Wotta bargain!

563 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:18:33am

re: #559 publicityStunted

If he'd just gone to the right church, he'd have been fine.

Gosh, that sounds familar. Oh right, it's what I heard from a lot of people here about why we don't need the Affordable Care Act:

Mah church takes care of people. Why don't these uninsured people go to church?

Heh.

564 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:18:38am

re: #562 makeitstop

Way OT: The wife and I saw a TV spot for this outfit last night. How people can run a scam like they're running and be allowed to stay in business, I'll never know.

Tronix Country

$2100 for a laptop - and you have to pay it off in a year. Wotta bargain!

If it ain't an Alienware laptop, it's a complete ripoff.
;)

565 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:18:44am

re: #557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Where in the story does it say he wasn't taken care of? Even with the best care, some people die.

Looks like he was taken care of $400,000.00 worth. Mom presented with the bill; it won't be paid. But it looks like he was taken care of to me.

Not trying to be callous or argumentative (I hope), but you intimated that he wasn't taken care of medically.

True. Hey. Sometimes I'm on autopilot. The $400,000 will likely be extorted through Medicaid by the hospital.

566 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:18:59am

Considering the details of this emerging story, is it possible that Wolf Blitzer's question was a trap? I could only wish.

567 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:19:38am

re: #564 Varek Raith

If it ain't an Alienware laptop, it's a complete ripoff.
;)

Well, the customer quotes say they're "very satisfied" and "it's a perfect computer", so maybe it is an Alienware laptop!

/

568 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:20:43am

re: #557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sure. Because that's the reality of the medical profession; if someone is deathly ill, they'll get care regardless of their ability to pay. Where that line of how sick they are is is a bit of a grey area, but what it means is that uninsured people can still rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills.

When they survive, they then have crippling debt for the rest of their lives. When they die, their estate is completely subsumed by the bills.


The only way to actually make having uninsured people around make sense is to actually not treat them. To do so would be monstrous, and we're not monsters.

So, single-payer is actually the only system that makes sense. Every other system will have some deficiency to it. Our current system-- hoo boy, the deficiencies are high.

569 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:21:00am

re: #557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Where in the story does it say he wasn't taken care of? Even with the best care, some people die.

Looks like he was taken care of $400,000.00 worth. Mom presented with the bill; it won't be paid. But it looks like he was taken care of to me.

Not trying to be callous or argumentative (I hope), but you intimated that he wasn't taken care of medically.

But you're arguing that this is a *good* thing.

570 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:21:53am

re: #557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looks like he was taken care of $400,000.00 worth. Mom presented with the bill; it won't be paid. But it looks like he was taken care of to me.

Perhaps, if he'd had insurance, he would have been taken care of sooner (before the condition could become fatal).

Pound of prevention vs. pound of cure and all that. Or else you have a medical system that's penny-wise and pound-foolish.

571 wiffersnapper  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:22:07am

Right wing tolerance on parade

572 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:22:33am

re: #567 iossarian

Well, the customer quotes say they're "very satisfied" and "it's a perfect computer", so maybe it is an Alienware laptop!

/

They don't even say what brand you're getting for the money. So it could be refurbished crap or low-end new stuff.

573 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:23:42am

re: #562 makeitstop

Way OT: The wife and I saw a TV spot for this outfit last night. How people can run a scam like they're running and be allowed to stay in business, I'll never know.

Tronix Country

$2100 for a laptop - and you have to pay it off in a year. Wotta bargain!

If you got no money and your credit sucks and you want a computer... it's your only choice.

I have some experience in this field. It's not too much to charge if you want your company to make a profit.

FYI? 20% of those will be paid in full. And of those 20% about 5% will pay straight through without difficulty to the company.

That company will chase deadbeats over half the earth for the others. I'll venture to guess that half of the customers who buy those will never pay beyond the fourth payment (if that long).

Doesn't take an accountant to figure it out.

574 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:24:12am

re: #570 publicityStunted

Perhaps, if he'd had insurance, he would have been taken care of sooner (before the condition could become fatal).

Pound of prevention vs. pound of cure and all that. Or else you have a medical system that's penny-wise and pound-foolish.

That's my understanding of the Ron Paul campaign manager case-- he got pneumonia and didn't have it treated because he lacked insurance. So the end result is a dead man and a 400K bill.

RoN PaUL!1!

575 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:24:43am

Time to slice and dehydrate another 15lb of pears. (15lb=10oz.) BBL

576 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:25:24am

re: #573 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just can't imagine being the kind of person that sets up a business like that. It's taking advantage of the poor and the desperate.

It's like the payday loan scam. I cannot stand predatory assholes. Loansharks in all but name.

577 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:26:28am

re: #574 iceweasel

That's my understanding of the Ron Paul campaign manager case-- he got pneumonia and didn't have it treated because he lacked insurance. So the end result is a dead man and a 400K bill.

RoN PaUL!1!

He also had pre-existing conditions that made health insurance unaffordable.

578 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:27:27am

re: #574 iceweasel

Well, he obviously got some treatment otherwise it wouldn't have cost nearly half a million.

He may have not gotten it treated early because of the lack of insurance, or he may not. It's not really central to the point.

His debt, that 400k, is a bad thing from every perspective. It's bad for his wife and whoever else would have inherited from his estate, because it completely blows away whatever he did to save in his life. It's bad for whoever he owes the money to, because they expended resources on him and have nothing to show for it. It's bad for other people at that hospital and people with insurance, because the only recourse of the hospital is to try to make up that money through overcharging others.

579 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:27:42am

re: #577 blueraven

He also had pre-existing conditions that made health insurance unaffordable.

That's right, I just read about that.

But it's a CHOICE! He CHOSE unwisely!1!

580 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:27:47am

re: #573 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Another proof of my assertion... take every dime from everyone and split it evenly.

Give it 25 years? We'll be back where we started.

581 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:27:54am

re: #574 iceweasel

That's my understanding of the Ron Paul campaign manager case-- he got pneumonia and didn't have it treated because he lacked insurance. So the end result is a dead man and a 400K bill.

RoN PaUL!1!

re: #576 Obdicut

I just can't imagine being the kind of person that sets up a business like that. It's taking advantage of the poor and the desperate.

It's like the payday loan scam. I cannot stand predatory assholes. Loansharks in all but name.

re: #577 blueraven

He also had pre-existing conditions that made health insurance unaffordable.

America FUCK YEAH!

582 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:28:47am

re: #577 blueraven

He also had pre-existing conditions that made health insurance unaffordable.

Or as Supply-Side Jesus says...

583 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:29:09am

re: #578 Obdicut

Well, he obviously got some treatment otherwise it wouldn't have cost nearly half a million.

He may have not gotten it treated early because of the lack of insurance, or he may not. It's not really central to the point.

It's QUITE central to the glibertarian universe. He didn't have insurance, he couldn't get early treatment because he couldn't afford it, and now he's dead.

584 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:29:11am

re: #576 Obdicut

I just can't imagine being the kind of person that sets up a business like that. It's taking advantage of the poor and the desperate.

It's like the payday loan scam. I cannot stand predatory assholes. Loansharks in all but name.

It's like all those "One Weird Tip" "One Sneaky Trick" spam ads you see everywhere. SAME EXACT WORDING and the ads appear twice or three times on a page.

I hate those fucking spam ads.

585 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:30:07am

re: #562 makeitstop

Way OT: The wife and I saw a TV spot for this outfit last night. How people can run a scam like they're running and be allowed to stay in business, I'll never know.

Tronix Country

$2100 for a laptop - and you have to pay it off in a year. Wotta bargain!

You ever see the interest rates they charge the poor at those "check cashing" place? Check into cash! Somewhere around 240 percent.

586 docproto48  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:30:17am

re: #577 blueraven

He also had pre-existing conditions that made health insurance unaffordable.

Song of the day:
Kill the Poor by The Dead Kennedys

587 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:30:29am

re: #576 Obdicut

I've known some folks in the business who were good people.

If you need a washing machine and have no credit? How you gonna get one except going to Aarons or Rent-A-Center.

They are entirely up front with the customers. People know what they're getting.

They also know they can't walk into Lowes or Home Depot and get one. (notice I strategically left out my company's name there, heh)

588 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:31:45am

400 grand. What's that about 4,000 boxes of Kleenex™ at your average hospital?

589 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:31:48am

re: #583 iceweasel

It's QUITE central to the glibertarian universe. He didn't have insurance, he couldn't get early treatment because he couldn't afford it, and now he's dead.

But you don't actually know that he couldn't get early treatment because he couldn't afford it, do you?

Did I miss that that was clearly established?

What I'm saying is that even if he just didn't get treated because he was trying to tough it out or because he's scared of doctors or whatever, the debt is still an overall negative for everyone involved, and having single-payer is clearly the better system in every way.

590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:32:20am

re: #578 Obdicut

Asshole overdrive on my part.

If he has any substantial savings? He could've paid for insurance.

Gosh, I'm sounding evil. But, if the dude has 400K in a savings account? The bill should be paid or he should've bought insurance.

591 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:33:42am

re: #587 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm sure there are. My wife's parents sell medical insurance, and they're very decent about it and do everything they can to make sure that they're selling something useful to the person and they do everything they can to make sure that person's claims are processed. But the company they work for is still predatory and using a predatory business model.

If you know from the outset that most people will receive less value from your service than what you will get by selling it, to me that's a scam. An individual worker can change that with their thumb on the scale, so to speak, but the industry as a whole is still contemptible to me.

592 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:33:45am

re: #589 Obdicut

But you don't actually know that he couldn't get early treatment because he couldn't afford it, do you?

Did I miss that that was clearly established?

What I'm saying is that even if he just didn't get treated because he was trying to tough it out or because he's scared of doctors or whatever, the debt is still an overall negative for everyone involved, and having single-payer is clearly the better system in every way.

You're focusing on the debt and not the death. I don't know why that is.

Yes, he couldn't afford insurance because of his preexisting condition, according to his sister. I don't know why you're focusing on the debt as an absolute evil as opposed to his death.

593 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:34:15am

re: #587 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The argument for me is what constitutes a commodity against a necessity.

Roads? Emergency services? Healthcare? Education?

For me these are necessities.

I would also argue that there is a certain level of living that is a necessity in order to be able to contribute to modern society. If your clothes are filthy, for example, you can't work in an office environment. So if you have people who are working, but can't afford to wash their clothes, that indicates that there is a structural problem with your society.

You're right, by the way, about the "spread out the money and get back to where you started", which is why redressing societal imbalance is an ongoing thing, not a one-time cure.

594 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:34:41am

re: #589 Obdicut

But you don't actually know that he couldn't get early treatment because he couldn't afford it, do you?

Did I miss that that was clearly established?

What I'm saying is that even if he just didn't get treated because he was trying to tough it out or because he's scared of doctors or whatever, the debt is still an overall negative for everyone involved, and having single-payer is clearly the better system in every way.

People without insurance often wait until their condition is severe before seeking treatment. Because he had a pre-existing condition and could not afford premiums, this definitely could have made a huge difference in overall cost.

595 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:35:24am

re: #585 Gus 802

You ever see the interest rates they charge the poor at those "check cashing" place? Check into cash! Somewhere around 240 percent.

As proto87 already pointed out, today's themesong will be Kill the Poor. Again.

596 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:35:27am

re: #590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He couldn't get insurance because he had a pre-existing condition.

Because insurance companies have no desire to actually give insurance to people who they know will need it.

There is no way to make them want to, either.

So we can either force them to do so-- and regulate and investigate and lock them down and spend tons of time and attention making sure that they're not screwing their customers-- or we can go to single payer, because the market for health insurance is a broken market where capitalism does not actually provide the best efficiency.

Either way, we're going to have tons of government involvement. I'd prefer we do it the saner, cheaper way. Single payer.

597 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:35:36am

re: #590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Asshole overdrive on my part.

If he has any substantial savings? He could've paid for insurance.

Gosh, I'm sounding evil. But, if the dude has 400K in a savings account? The bill should be paid or he should've bought insurance.

Yeah, fuck his family. Why should his kids get their father's life savings? Let them earn their own half mil!

598 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:35:39am

re: #592 iceweasel

You're focusing on the debt and not the death. I don't know why that is.

Yes, he couldn't afford insurance because of his preexisting condition, according to his sister. I don't know why you're focusing on the debt as an absolute evil as opposed to his death.

Americans are conditioned to "tough it out" for obvious reasons. Especially for the uninsured. That's why people "tough it out". Because they know or have cynical view of what to expect in the American for profit health care system.

599 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:36:16am

re: #595 iceweasel

As proto87 already pointed out, today's themesong will be Kill the Poor. Again.

But those profits for the rich trickle down and make my life better!

//

600 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:36:26am

re: #585 Gus 802

You ever see the interest rates they charge the poor at those "check cashing" place? Check into cash! Somewhere around 240 percent.

Sigh. No they don't. I've experience in this also.

They charge $15.00 for a hundred dollar loan for a couple of weeks. It is not intended to be a year long loan. The deadbeats get hammered not the large percentage of folks who use the service.

You don't pay it back the loan renews. To call it 240% APR is misleading.

I've seen it listed over 400%.

601 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:36:40am

Fuck the insurance industry.
That is all.

602 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:36:52am

re: #592 iceweasel

You're focusing on the debt and not the death. I don't know why that is.

Yes, he couldn't afford insurance because of his preexisting condition, according to his sister. I don't know why you're focusing on the debt as an absolute evil as opposed to his death.

It sounded to me (from the article) as if the death could well have been inevitable. It's difficult to tell, because obviously they may not have revealed the details that would allow you to tell either way.

I do know that, with various conditions that are not all that uncommon, you are basically susceptible to dying from "complications" (often pneumonia) at any time, regardless of how much preventative care you receive.

603 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:37:17am

re: #599 Gus 802

But those profits for the rich trickle down and make my life better!

//

Into each life a little pee must fall trickle down.

604 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:38:19am

re: #597 Alouette

Yeah, fuck his family. Why should his kids get their father's life savings? Let them earn their own half mil!

People on the left say the exact same thing about inheritance taxes.

605 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:38:20am

re: #592 iceweasel

You're focusing on the debt and not the death. I don't know why that is.

Because I don't know anything about the circumstances of his death. Again, do you? Do you know that he didn't get early treatment because he lacked insurance? If you do, then obviously that's a very important point. But I haven't seen anything that said that.

Yes, he couldn't afford insurance because of his preexisting condition, according to his sister. I don't know why you're focusing on the debt as an absolute evil as opposed to his death.

Because his death may not have been preventable. Lots of people with insurance die of pneumonia too; it's a bastard. My friend Chuck just barely survived a bout of it-- he's immuno-compromised.

Single payer doesn't ensure that nobody dies of pneumonia ever again. I do think it has an overall positive effect on life expectancy, but it's a relatively mild one. What it does mainly is to hugely increase quality of life for people, and to affect the economics in a large and beneficial way.

606 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:39:59am

re: #598 Gus 802

Americans are conditioned to "tough it out" for obvious reasons. Especially for the uninsured. That's why people "tough it out". Because they know or have cynical view of what to expect in the American for profit health care system.

They should get all boot strappy and hold up a bank. Where's that pioneer spirit?

607 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:40:31am

re: #593 iossarian

We'll never agree. And; that's okay.

608 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:40:39am

re: #604 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

People on the left say the exact same thing about inheritance taxes.

The inheritance tax cut-off is set at 5 million, though, currently.

It's true I'd like a much higher estate tax, but even a cutoff of a million would provide for protection for 99.9% of estates. That'd be perfectly fine with me.

609 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:42:39am

re: #605 Obdicut

Because I don't know anything about the circumstances of his death. Again, do you? Do you know that he didn't get early treatment because he lacked insurance? If you do, then obviously that's a very important point. But I haven't seen anything that said that.

Because his death may not have been preventable. Lots of people with insurance die of pneumonia too; it's a bastard. My friend Chuck just barely survived a bout of it-- he's immuno-compromised.

Single payer doesn't ensure that nobody dies of pneumonia ever again. I do think it has an overall positive effect on life expectancy, but it's a relatively mild one. What it does mainly is to hugely increase quality of life for people, and to affect the economics in a large and beneficial way.

While we do not have enough facts in this case to know if his death could have been prevented if he had insurance, and if he sought treatment earlier. It is a fact that people without health insurance will die from preventable illness more often than those with insurance.

610 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:45:28am

I better get going. Catch you folks later.

611 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:46:05am

re: #609 blueraven

Sure. And I'm fine with saying that. I'll say it all the time. But since I don't know if that's the case for him, and what I do know is that his treatment left his wife with a gigantic debt, the hospital out of pocket for what they'd done for him, and nobody actually better off, that's what I'm going to concentrate on in this story.

I personally think that the quality of life that is provided by single payer is more important than the effect on mortality. Everyone dies. But everyone doesn't have to live with, say, crippling arthritis, gout, syncope, glaucoma, tinnitus, etc. Those things, the ability to get the quick, effective, and easy fixes for things that make so much difference in people's lives, is the main reason, medically, I want single payer.

It'd also mean far fewer sick days, much less money lost to the economy. So as well as people feeling better, society would benefit overall.

612 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:46:07am

Later Ice. ;)

613 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:46:30am

re: #610 Gus 802

I better get going. Catch you folks later.

me too. See you later, Comrade Gus-ski!

Later, LGF. Hope you all have a great day!

614 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:46:30am

re: #607 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We'll never agree. And; that's okay.

If by "agree" you mean "be at the same point on the spectrum" then I, well, agree.

I think, however, that we would both be able to rule out the spectrum extremes (e.g., privatization of the police, or mandated equal hourly wages across all occupations).

615 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:47:13am

re: #613 iceweasel

me too. See you later, Comrade Gus-ski!

Later, LGF. Hope you all have a great day!

Have a good one Comrade Iceweaselski!

616 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:48:43am

re: #608 Obdicut

The inheritance tax cut-off is set at 5 million, though, currently.

It's true I'd like a much higher estate tax, but even a cutoff of a million would provide for protection for 99.9% of estates. That'd be perfectly fine with me.

The argument against a stronger US inheritance tax is the biggest load of bullshit (apart from all the other ginormous loads that emanate from Cantor and his ilk).

It's the least effective brake on the oligarchy you could possibly imagine.

617 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:49:25am

By the way, for the next three days I'll be spending five hours a day phonebanking at the Freelancer's Union, attempting to raise consciousness about exploitative workplace practices and the need for laws to prevent them.

If you're not involved in a cause you care about, I'd ask you: why not? From reading LGF, you all know how much ignorance and misinformation is out there in the world. It's not going to go away on its own. The only way it gets beaten back is by the action of individuals working together.

So whatever it is, whether its appealing to people to safeguard veterans benefits, keeping women's health clinics open, or helping people understand AGW: get involved in something. If you don't, don't be surprised at the continuing ignorance of America and the dominance of politicians appealing to that ignorance.

618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:50:02am

re: #593 iossarian

I would also argue that there is a certain level of living that is a necessity in order to be able to contribute to modern society. If your clothes are filthy, for example, you can't work in an office environment. So if you have people who are working, but can't afford to wash their clothes, that indicates that there is a structural problem with your society.

Sorry. I can't let this go.

Are you serious? There should be a "Department of Laundry"?

Or the overall problem as "structural with society"? What do you really want from Government? What should government do?

619 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:50:46am

re: #611 Obdicut

There's where we completely and totally agree.

620 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:51:01am

re: #616 iossarian

It really becomes clear when you start talking about the actual percentage of estates affected at various cutoffs.

All a high estate tax really does is encourage those estates to disburse the money earlier, which is exactly what we want; to raise the velocity of money.

621 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:51:14am

re: #609 blueraven

While we do not have enough facts in this case to know if his death could have been prevented if he had insurance, and if he sought treatment earlier. It is a fact that people without health insurance will die from preventable illness more often than those with insurance.

Since I've been unemployed, I've been making use of a local clinic that has been treating me without requesting immediate payment (and giving me free samples of bronchial medications as well).

When I was employed and had insurance, I'd go to my doctor's office at the first onset of bronchitis. As a result, I average maybe one serious bout with bronchitis per year from 2007-2010.

This past year, I've had three full-blown episodes of bronchitis, mainly because I *always* feel guilty about taking advantage of the clinic's good graces.

Early treatment of almost any medical situation cannot be overemphasized.

I don't want to get into an argument about smoking; I'll just say that I smoke less than my screen name would indicate, and this past year I've smoked much less than in previous years -- but I'd be lying if I said that economic instability isn't the primary reason for that.

And I keep every bill they send me in anticipation of the day I'm able to pay them back.

622 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:54:46am

re: #620 Obdicut

It really becomes clear when you start talking about the actual percentage of estates affected at various cutoffs.

All a high estate tax really does is encourage those estates to disburse the money earlier, which is exactly what we want; to raise the velocity of money.

My previous comment was really unclear, in fact it reads as if I'm taking the opposite view from my actual position.

What I meant was: the current estate tax is so low as to be completely ineffective. It could be much, much stronger and still be a fairly modest corrective.

623 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 7:55:37am

re: #622 iossarian

Oh, I got you, sorry if my post didn't make it clear. I was agreeing with you.

624 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:05:22am

re: #618 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry. I can't let this go.

Are you serious? There should be a "Department of Laundry"?

Or the overall problem as "structural with society"? What do you really want from Government? What should government do?

What I mean is, let's take a hypothetical 25 year old who doesn't have a job.

You tell him: look, here's a job. Take it.

He says: if I take that job, the costs associated with holding it (commuting, buying work-appropriate clothes etc.) outweigh the income. So I can't take it.

This is a rational decision on his part.

Now there are two solutions to this problem (and neither is "the Department of Laundry"). One is to depress the standard of living of enough people to the point where they have to take those jobs, work 18 hours a day, whatever, just to survive. This what is currently going on via the stripping away of basic services that support low-income people.

The other is to increase support for these people through various programs until they can afford to take these jobs (e.g., subsidized public transport). These programs inevitably represent a redistribution of wealth.

That's what I mean by a spectrum. You can move in the direction of more, or less, redistribution. Moving in a given direction does not imply that you have to go all the way to one extreme or another.

625 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:06:56am

re: #592 iceweasel

Another question to be asked is whether Paul, as a doctor was asked his opinion by his staffer about his situation - and whether Paul told him to go to a doctor or that it wasn't anything to speak of.

Separately, would the HCR changes have made it easier for him to get affordable care/coverage? Possibly.

There were two separate preexisting coverage items in the HCR:
Adults with preexisting conditions became eligible to join a temporary high-risk pool, which will be superseded by the health care exchange in 2014. To qualify for coverage, applicants must have a pre-existing health condition and have been uninsured for at least the past six months

Separately, Insurers are prohibited from excluding preexisting medical conditions (9/23/2011) except in certain instances (grandfathered cases).

Don't know enough about his particular case to know whether he would have benefited from the reforms if he was eligible.

626 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:09:46am

re: #620 Obdicut

It really becomes clear when you start talking about the actual percentage of estates affected at various cutoffs.

All a high estate tax really does is encourage those estates to disburse the money earlier, which is exactly what we want; to raise the velocity of money.

Is the other approach designed instead to do that by dropping it on the hoi-polloi from a greater height? That would explain some of the resistance to converting to dollar (and $2) coins since that would obviously more painful than being hit by fluttering paper currency.
//

627 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:12:23am

re: #623 Obdicut

Just noticed your nic is blue, but if you meant it to go to a website, the link be broke :(

628 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:15:21am

re: #627 publicityStunted

I didn't mean for it to do anything.

629 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:18:16am

re: #624 iossarian

Subsidized transportation? Done.
Head Start? Done.
Subsidized Child Care? Done.
Earned Income Child Credit? Done.
Food Stamps for low income? Done.
Housing Subsidies? Done.

What else?

I'm not trying to be Scrooge McDuck here, but where in the heck do we draw a line?

How much "aid" should an able-bodied person be entitled to over their lifetime?

630 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:19:31am

re: #629 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Subsidized transportation? Done.
Head Start? Done.
Subsidized Child Care? Done.
Earned Income Child Credit? Done.
Food Stamps for low income? Done.
Housing Subsidies? Done.

What else?

I'm not trying to be Scrooge McDuck here, but where in the heck do we draw a line?

How much "aid" should an able-bodied person be entitled to over their lifetime?

Free pie? Free cake? You wouldn't turn that down.

631 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:20:18am

re: #625 lawhawk

Yeah. That's a question also.

If my best friend, or someone I had sacrificed mightily for was a physician? I'd probably swallow my fucking pride and ask for some free medical advice.

632 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:20:41am

re: #630 Alouette

But cake is a right.

633 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:22:43am

re: #629 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

IT's not at all about how much they should be entitled to. It's mostly, for me, about how much makes economic sense. And that's a lot. Providing benefits for people at that level is very, very good for the economy, it's very good for the labor market, it's just good all round.

Thinking of it in terms of 'what does this person deserve' turns it into an impossible moral argument.

634 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:26:55am

re: #629 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Subsidized transportation? Done.
Head Start? Done.
Subsidized Child Care? Done.
Earned Income Child Credit? Done.
Food Stamps for low income? Done.
Housing Subsidies? Done.

What else?

I'm not trying to be Scrooge McDuck here, but where in the heck do we draw a line?

How much "aid" should an able-bodied person be entitled to over their lifetime?

I think the better question to ask is: what quality of life should be available to someone who agrees to work reasonably hard (and what defines reasonably hard)?

635 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:29:06am

re: #633 Obdicut
The simple act of being poor does not canonize a person.

I, personally believe subsidizing or offering food, housing, transportation, education, free money (EIC for the working poor), child care, counseling and health care is enough.

I don't think we can put limitations on it, either. If you cut off someone at (example five years, I'm looking at you Michigan Governor) you are basically putting them out on an ice floe, which I find unforgivable also.

I was asking what other services should we be offering.

636 iossarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:30:50am

re: #635 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I disagree.

The simple act of being poor does not canonize a person.

I, personally believe subsidizing or offering food, housing, transportation, education, free money (EIC for the working poor), child care, counseling and health care is enough.

If we actually did this, I agree it would be enough.

The trend, however, is massive disinvestment in precisely these programs.

637 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:32:34am

re: #634 iossarian

Oh shit! Did we just agree on something?

(*cue Angel's chorus*)

Sorry, gotta go to WORK!

638 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:33:39am

re: #636 iossarian

If we actually did this, I agree it would be enough.

The trend, however, is massive disinvestment in precisely these programs.

While offering more and more to the rich. That's the problem I have.
More tax cuts for the "job creators". Corporations that are holding on to trillions in profit as they ship jobs overseas.

639 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:35:35am

re: #636 iossarian

We were doing it a couple of years ago. It didn't seem to help much then.

640 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:36:36am

re: #639 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We were doing it a couple of years ago. It didn't seem to help much then.

Neither has the corporate welfare.

641 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:37:20am

Rick Perry taking care of bidness at Liberty University today:

A bruised and battered Gov. Rick Perry heads out of his second presidential debate and into the battleground state of Virginia, where he’ll seek to reconnect with social conservatives today at the world’s largest evangelical Christian university.
[Link: www.texastribune.org...]

642 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:39:24am

re: #635 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The simple act of being poor does not canonize a person.

And that's why I said that if you talk about who's deserving, it turns it into an impossible moral argument.

I, personally believe subsidizing or offering food, housing, transportation, education, free money (EIC for the working poor), child care, counseling and health care is enough.

It certainly would be a very good foundation.

I was asking what other services should we be offering.

Well, that depends. I think that giving people information on how to prepare for storms is another good thing we can do, providing IDs is a good thing, and, of course subsidizing rural electrification and telephony.

But if we actually got to the level that you said in your 'enough' paragraph, I'd be very happy indeed.

Sadly, we're light-years away.

I don't think we can put limitations on it, either. If you cut off someone at (example five years, I'm looking at you Michigan Governor) you are basically putting them out on an ice floe, which I find unforgivable also.

Agreed. not only is it reprehensible, but it makes no sense. That person still exists. They're still dirt poor. They're still in the society, and their problems are going to affect others.

A friend of mine who's a sherrif pointed out that the cost of evicting someone from a low-rent dwelling is generally higher than paying their rent for an entire year would be. His office has ceased monetary evictions during the recession and is only evicting people for malfeasance. Some apartment building owners are angry at them, but his Sherrif has made the case to the city council that they simply can't afford to evict people. Instead, the city pays a portion of that person's rent, and the apartment-owner gets at least something.

When they asked the apartment owners if they'd be willing to pay for the full cost of evictions, the apartment owners demurred. Heh.

643 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:41:28am

re: #639 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We were doing it a couple of years ago. It didn't seem to help much then.

We have never offered anything like a full slate of services for the poor, not in a very long time, anyway. Not comparable to how it is in the Scandinavian countries, for example, all of which are bettering us in terms of entrepreneurship and social mobility, too.

We've always had extremely limited resources available for the poor and indigent, and a very high social taboo about it, as well. That's what leads to ridiculous programs like making people on welfare work for the state, which winds up with them being paid less than minimum wage while impacting their ability to actually get a job.

644 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:42:18am

re: #638 blueraven

More tax cuts for the "job creators". Corporations that are holding on to trillions in profit as they ship jobs overseas.

Let's turn that ridiculously manipulative talking point on its head: from now on, I propose calling them job-in-China creators.

645 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:04:07am

re: #639 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We were doing it a couple of years ago. It didn't seem to help much then.

Hmm...

From the University of Michigan:

In the late 1950s, the poverty rate for all Americans was 22.4 percent, or 39.5 million individuals. These numbers declined steadily throughout the 1960s, reaching a low of 11.1 percent, or 22.9 million individuals, in 1973. Over the next decade, the poverty rate fluctuated between 11.1 and 12.6 percent, but it began to rise steadily again in 1980. By 1983, the number of poor individuals had risen to 35.3 million individuals, or 15.2 percent.

For the next ten years, the poverty rate remained above 12.8 percent, increasing to 15.1 percent, or 39.3 million individuals, by 1993. The rate declined for the remainder of the decade, to 11.3 percent by 2000. From 2000 to 2004 it rose each year to 12.7 in 2004.

Since the late 1960s, the poverty rate for people over 65 has fallen dramatically. The poverty rate for children has historically been somewhat higher than the overall poverty rate. The poverty rate for people in households headed by single women is significantly higher than the overall poverty rate.

The numbers went up in 1980? Gee, who was elected in 1980?

The numbers went down starting in 1993? Gee, who was elected in 1992?

The numbers started going up again in 2000? Gee, who was elected in 2000?

Yes, yes -- I'm certain there are numerous reasons for the increase or decrease in the poor over the years.

But I'd lose my standing in the Snark Association of America if I didn't point out the Republican/Democrat thing. :-)

646 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:06:56am

Sorry, forgot to add the link to the UMich study:

Poverty

One certainly can argue that whether government largesse was the only factor in getting people off the poverty rolls, or whether or not that's necessarily a good thing.

But to make a blanket statement that "it didn't seem to help much then" doesn't appear to be accurate, either.

647 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:24:16am

re: #467 thedopefishlives

Ugh. Why exactly are we seeing such a resurgence of these hateful old chestnuts? Racism, misogyny, anti-Semitism... They're all getting recycled again.

They never went away. Same old dumb, stupic bigots, different millennium.

648 Lidane  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:24:36am

Morning, Lizards!

Open source project management software = a confusing, muddled mess. Some things just need a more user-friendly interface.

649 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:27:59am

Creepy news coming from the PLO ambassador to the US...

PLO ambassador to US: Palestinian state should be free of Jews

The Palestine Liberation Organization's ambassador to the United States said Tuesday that any future Palestinian state should be free of Jews, USA Today reported.

"After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated," Maen Areikat, the PLO ambassador, told reporters. (Ynet)

Isn't that what Hitler did?

650 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:29:13am

re: #649 NJDhockeyfan

No. What the PLO wants is terrible and horrible, but Hitler attempted to exterminate the Jews, not to simply deport them all.

651 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:30:33am

Constitutional Progressives Take Critical Fight to Tea Party

Today, a coalition of progressive groups announced the formation of Constitutional Progressives, an effort to push back against the radical politics of "constitutional conservatives:" the claims, for example, that the Affordable Care Act, or even Social Security, are unconstitutional; that "activist judges" shouldn't decide the constitutionality of legal measures intended to protect the rights of fellow citizens; that birthright citizenship is unconstitutional; that regulation of business is contrary to constitutional principles and "liberty;" and in some extreme cases, that secession may be necessary.

652 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:30:40am

re: #649 NJDhockeyfan

Creepy news coming from the PLO ambassador to the US...

PLO ambassador to US: Palestinian state should be free of Jews
Isn't that what Hitler did?

Such a state would be the first to officially prohibit Jews or any other faith since Nazi Germany, which sought a country that was judenrein, or cleansed of Jews, said Elliott Abrams, a former U.S. National Security Council official.

Wait, and these are the same folks who have been screaming so loudly about "Apartheid"?

653 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:32:10am

re: #650 Obdicut

No. What the PLO wants is terrible and horrible, but Hitler attempted to exterminate the Jews, not to simply deport them all.

First he did try to deport them all, but when there were no other countries that wanted to take them, he decided to just go ahead and kill them.

654 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:32:50am

re: #650 Obdicut

No. What the PLO wants is terrible and horrible, but Hitler attempted to exterminate the Jews, not to simply deport them all.

This is how it started in Nazi Germany. This is ugly shit.

655 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:33:53am

King Abdullah of Jordan:

No Palestinian rights at the expense of MY VERY OWN Kingdom!

656 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:36:53am

re: #652 Alouette

The crime of apartheid:

committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.

Racially and religiously profiling to eliminate a population group from lands that it historically lived in for generations stretching back centuries. That's what the PLO is proposing.

But if Israel tries to protect itself from Palestinian terrorists who continue plotting attacks, that's apartheid according to the PLO and pro-Palestinians for the past couple of decades.

No one blinks when the Palestinians say that they want to make their country free of all Jews. But note that Israel has banned political parties who seek to do the same thing to its Arab populations (Kach and the Kahanists).

657 NVAudiophile  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:39:08am

The left loves to bash Republicans for ignoring science, at least the science behind evolution and global warming. Sadly this deference to science does not extend to all issues. Case in point: vaccinations. NPR reported yesterday about a drop-off children in the Northwest who are vaccinated against preventable childhood diseases. Doctors Counter Vaccine Fears In Pacific Northwest

658 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:40:36am

Meanwhile Dinnerjacket is blaming the Jews for both World Wars...

Ahmadinejad: Zionists started both world wars

WASHINGTON – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad accused Israel of perpetuating terror, and blamed the "Zionist regime" for starting both the first and second world wars.

"The Zionist regime is always doing the same thing. They destroy people’s homes and raze them to the ground," Ahmadinejad told the Washington Post on Tuesday. "They have created a few major wars. They continue to assassinate and terrorize people; they continue their policy of coercion against other nations, including Iran."

The Iranian leader slammed the West for supporting the Jewish state, accusing the United States of sacrificing its "whole population" for "the interests of a few hundred Zionists."

I wonder if the Columbia students will bring this up when they dine with him on the 21st?

659 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:42:07am

Crony capitalism at work:

Anita Perry's salary comes indirectly from governor's backers

Much of Texas first lady Anita Perry's $60,000-a-year salary at an Austin nonprofit comes indirectly from Gov. Rick Perry's political donors, state contractors and companies that do business with the state or have issues before the Legislature.

Of 37 major donors to the Texas Association Against Sexual Assault during Anita Perry's tenure as a fundraiser for the group, only three have no ties to the governor or state business.

Anita Perry is paid out of the nonprofit's pool of money that includes these contributions. The group also receives grants from state agencies, including the governor's office.

660 Coracle  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:44:28am

re: #657 NVAudiophile

The article doesn't discuss the political demographics of 'vaccine hesitancy'. How is this a left/right issue?

661 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:45:23am

re: #657 NVAudiophile

The left loves to bash Republicans for ignoring science, at least the science behind evolution and global warming. Sadly this deference to science does not extend to all issues. Case in point: vaccinations. NPR reported yesterday about a drop-off children in the Northwest who are vaccinated against preventable childhood diseases. Doctors Counter Vaccine Fears In Pacific Northwest

You missed the last GOP debate, didn't you?
The New Age lefty kooks and the Far right nutters are both anti vaxxers.

662 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:46:18am

re: #657 NVAudiophile

The left loves to bash Republicans for ignoring science, at least the science behind evolution and global warming. Sadly this deference to science does not extend to all issues. Case in point: vaccinations. NPR reported yesterday about a drop-off children in the Northwest who are vaccinated against preventable childhood diseases. Doctors Counter Vaccine Fears In Pacific Northwest

I am not seeing anything about liberals in this article. Just two states that yes are Democratic by and large in their politics having a drop off against vaccination. Not denying that there's some on the left that engage in anti vaccine hysterics but that article just talks about Oregon and Washington. Not everyone in those states is a Democrat of Democratic party voter.

663 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:49:11am

re: #658 NJDhockeyfan

The Iranian media is claiming that Ahmadinejad wont be meeting at Columbia or other universities. I was checking on that claim earlier today and found only that Fox/News Corp outlets were reporting the Columbia U confab.

But if there's going to be any kind of meeting between Ahmadinejad and student groups - someone better damned ask when are the hikers and the Alaei brothers going to be released. He talks about human rights and all that kind of BS, but has no problems detaining human rights activists, medical experts who are trying to prevent the spread of AIDS (the Alaei brothers) and hikers who accidentally crossed into Iran, along with violent and bloody crackdowns against opponents to his regime.

664 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:50:00am

re: #659 makeitstop

HoltCat owner Peter Holt donated $10,000 to the nonprofit and gave $62,000 to the governor's campaign account, including $12,000 in private air travel on Nov. 14, 2009, so Rick Perry could attend Texas A&M University's football game against the University of Oklahoma, which was described on the forms as a "campaign event."

Like he didn't have those votes pretty well wrapped up already.

665 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:50:43am

re: #661 Varek Raith

You missed the last GOP debate, didn't you?
The New Age lefty kooks and the Far right nutters are both anti vaxxers.

He was asleep!

Registered since: Jul 9, 2006 at 2:34 pm
No. of comments posted: 8
No. of Pages posted: 0

666 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:51:21am

re: #665 blueraven

He was asleep!

Cryo suspension is a real bitch!
Ninja edit!

667 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:53:00am

re: #665 blueraven

He was asleep!

Should have figured it was a "sleeping beauty" I mean I don't deny that there are people on the left that engage in that anti vaccine paranoia but his article was weak since it talked about states, yes two states that are consistently Democratic but it said nothing at all about ideology. Plus I'd love for someone to find me one Democratic or liberal with the popularity that Michele Bachmann has that believes vaccines are bad.

668 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:54:58am

Oh, and the entire push for Palestinians to declare statehood at the UN would essentially abrogate the Oslo Accords and the peace process as it exists under Oslo.

What do the Palestinians have to gain from that? It would turn acts of terrorism into acts of war - meaning that an attack like the Eilat bombings would be construed as an act of war and justification for attacking the entirety of the Palestinian terror/military infrastructure.

669 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:57:34am

re: #668 lawhawk

Oh, and the entire push for Palestinians to declare statehood at the UN would essentially abrogate the Oslo Accords and the peace process as it exists under Oslo.

What do the Palestinians have to gain from that? It would turn acts of terrorism into acts of war - meaning that an attack like the Eilat bombings would be construed as an act of war and justification for attacking the entirety of the Palestinian terror/military infrastructure.

Sounds like a case of "be careful what you wish for".

670 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:57:44am

re: #668 lawhawk

Oh, and the entire push for Palestinians to declare statehood at the UN would essentially abrogate the Oslo Accords and the peace process as it exists under Oslo.

What do the Palestinians have to gain from that? It would turn acts of terrorism into acts of war - meaning that an attack like the Eilat bombings would be construed as an act of war and justification for attacking the entirety of the Palestinian terror/military infrastructure.

Which means nothing. It was argued in 2005 that after the "disengagement" from Gaza, any further attacks would be construed as acts of war, thereby justifying attacking the entirety of the Gaza terror/military infrastructure, including imposing of blockades, etc. We see how well that has turned out.

671 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 9:59:33am

re: #663 lawhawk

The Iranian media is claiming that Ahmadinejad wont be meeting at Columbia or other universities. I was checking on that claim earlier today and found only that Fox/News Corp outlets were reporting the Columbia U confab.

But if there's going to be any kind of meeting between Ahmadinejad and student groups - someone better damned ask when are the hikers and the Alaei brothers going to be released. He talks about human rights and all that kind of BS, but has no problems detaining human rights activists, medical experts who are trying to prevent the spread of AIDS (the Alaei brothers) and hikers who accidentally crossed into Iran, along with violent and bloody crackdowns against opponents to his regime.

I read about it on the Jerusalem Post who got the story from the The New York Post.

I agree, they need to ask him all about human rights among other things and not let him get away with some bullshit answers.

672 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:00:33am

re: #657 NVAudiophile

The left loves to bash Republicans for ignoring science, at least the science behind evolution and global warming. Sadly this deference to science does not extend to all issues. Case in point: vaccinations. NPR reported yesterday about a drop-off children in the Northwest who are vaccinated against preventable childhood diseases. Doctors Counter Vaccine Fears In Pacific Northwest

BTW...how do you feel about climate change and evolution?

673 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:02:09am

A bad day to be David Barton

674 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:02:52am

re: #668 lawhawk

Oh, and the entire push for Palestinians to declare statehood at the UN would essentially abrogate the Oslo Accords and the peace process as it exists under Oslo.

What do the Palestinians have to gain from that? It would turn acts of terrorism into acts of war - meaning that an attack like the Eilat bombings would be construed as an act of war and justification for attacking the entirety of the Palestinian terror/military infrastructure.

Speaking of the Oslo Accords, Hamas wants them gone.

Hamas calls for overthrow of Israeli-Palestinian Oslo peace accords

675 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:03:15am

re: #672 blueraven

BTW...how do you feel about climate change and evolution?

Torn between "We're all gonna die" or end up with gills like Kevin Costner in Waterworld...
/

676 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:08:21am

re: #675 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Torn between "We're all gonna die" or end up with gills like Kevin Costner in Waterworld...
/

I'd prefer getting a Dolphinoplasty.

677 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:09:16am

re: #673 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A bad day to be David Barton

Wow I almost feel "sorry" for him but the fact that there are people out there who are more nutty than Barton is really telling.

678 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:13:33am

re: #674 NJDhockeyfan

Speaking of the Oslo Accords, Hamas wants them gone.

Hamas calls for overthrow of Israeli-Palestinian Oslo peace accords

Just more of the "good terrorist-bad terrorist" routine that the PA and Hamas have down to a tee.

679 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:15:17am

re: #657 NVAudiophile

The left loves to bash Republicans for ignoring science, at least the science behind evolution and global warming. Sadly this deference to science does not extend to all issues. Case in point: vaccinations. NPR reported yesterday about a drop-off children in the Northwest who are vaccinated against preventable childhood diseases. Doctors Counter Vaccine Fears In Pacific Northwest

Yes, 100% of the people in the Northwest are Democrats.

Sheesh.

680 NVAudiophile  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:37:57am

re: #675 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I really enjoy reading this site, but don’t jump into the fray all that often. Perhaps I’ll post more often.

Regarding evolution: I believe that evolution is settled science. I find the creation story told in the bible (and other stories of creation) to be great stories that illustrate how we as human beings have struggled to understand our existence through the ages. And yet, every time NASA comes out with another amazing image from the Hubble space telescope, I am at times taken aback by the wonder of it all. The age-old question remains, where did it all come from and how did it happen. Science provides answers, and there is seemingly no end to the discovery.

Regarding global warming: that too, I believe is settled science and I am very concerned that we develop technologies and implement policies that will make a difference. I even spent years working in the alternate energy business.

However, I also believe:

Solar panels and wind farms will not met the base-load power requirements of the country.

The Yucca Mountain Waste Repository is a safer place to store nuclear waste than above-ground pools.

That latest-generation nuclear plants cause fewer long-term health problems and emit less pollution into the environment than coal or natural gas fired plants.

That a national standard for electric grid interconnection (instead of a patchwork of standards that vary by state and utility) would unleash a flood of entrepreneurial activity in the alternate energy business.

I would like to see politicians of both parties asked for their take on these issues. I am disappointed that the Democratic Party is not as science-based as they like to think they are when it comes to actually doing something about global warming that makes a difference. They identify the problem, yes, but as for solutions? Very little that is practical.

681 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:48:53pm

re: #653 Alouette

First he did try to deport them all, but when there were no other countries that wanted to take them, he decided to just go ahead and kill them.

No, the deportation plan was never really worked out. He didn't, nor did any of his subordinates, actually try that hard to do so. His original intentions were neither mass murder nor deportation, but "What Hitler did" was certainly to commit genocide.

In terms of just expelling Jews: That's what the Spanish did, the English did, the Russians did, the Poles did, the French did, the Hungarians did, etc. etc.

So it's not just something Hitler did.

682 Buck  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 2:25:03pm

re: #650 Obdicut

No. What the PLO wants is terrible and horrible, but Hitler attempted to exterminate the Jews, not to simply deport them all.

What Nazi Germany did is create laws that separated the Jews form everyone else. The PLO is not really saying that they will deport anyone. They wont be welcome in the first place. Jews will not be allowed to own property, or own a business.

This has been in done in "Palestine" before. You don't have to go to Europe to find an example of this. After Arab Transjordan seized the west bank of the Jordan River when it joined other Arab states in attacking a reborn Israel in 1948, it formally made Judea Judenrein.


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