Republican Businessman Wins Rep. Weiner’s Vacated Seat

As the media immediately starts predicting doom for Democrats everywhere
Politics • Views: 32,386

Republicans are being very quick to trumpet this as a sign of trouble for Barack Obama: Bob Turner Wins Anthony Weiner’s House Seat.

But despite the right wing crowing, the reason why Turner won has little to do with the President:

Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee, said the district’s large concentration of Orthodox Jews made it unusual and meant the race had few national ramifications.

“In this district, there is a large number of people who went to the polls tonight who didn’t support the president to begin with and don’t support Democrats — and it’s nothing more than that,” she said in a telephone interview.

And of course, there’s an obvious backlash against Anthony Weiner after his embarrassing escapades.

But I really don’t understand this kind of thinking:

“I am a registered Democrat, I have always been a registered Democrat, I come from a family of Democrats — and I hate to say this, I voted Republican,” said Linda Goldberg, 61, after casting her ballot in Queens. “I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

The people she should be “sending messages” to are the Republicans who obstruct and attack everything Obama does. It’s beyond me how anyone thinks this kind of “message” does anything but further strengthen the deranged Republican Party.

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661 comments
1 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:05:25am
I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job.

Because the obvious way to get things done is to elect more obstructionists who can't be trusted to keep a deal, threaten government shutdowns, and hold up legislation to win concessions for their social agenda.

2 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:07:43am

Well, you know I thought of the NY-22 from a couple years ago. I know that district isn't as Republican as this one is Democratic but Hoffman losing there didn't stop the Republicans from taking back the HOuse. I am not predicting that the Dems will take back the House in 2012 for what it's worth either. The Democrats ran a shitty candidate with a shitty campaign. And I agree with you the message stuff is stupid. Obama hasn't been perfect but voters like Mrs. Goldberg totally ignore the fact that the Republicans have a role to play in fixing the economy too and have basically rejected everything Obama proposes.

3 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:09:42am

"The people she should be “sending messages” to are the Republicans who obstruct and attack everything Obama does. It’s beyond me how anyone thinks this kind of “message” does anything but further strengthen the deranged Republican Party."

Yeah, I can't understand this line of thinking at all.

Either someone like this doesn't think there's much difference on economic policy between the two parties; or they do think there is, but are somehow under the impression that yet more "austerity" will really shape things up.

4 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:11:24am
“I am a registered Democrat, I have always been a registered Democrat, I come from a family of Democrats — and I hate to say this, I voted Republican,” said Linda Goldberg, 61, after casting her ballot in Queens. “I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

TL:DR version = Derp

5 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:13:01am
“I am a registered Democrat, I have always been a registered Democrat, I come from a family of Democrats — and I hate to say this, I voted Republican,” said Linda Goldberg, 61, after casting her ballot in Queens. “I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

I believe that was the message sent out by former NY mayor Ed Koch. He encouraged Democrats to send the President a message.

Also, because this district is going to be eliminated in all probability next year, I think many democrats might not really give a shit about a one year term in an already highly republican dominated house.

6 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:15:02am

I'm seeing a rumor about Sarah Palin on Twitter.

Random Tweet below to Explain:

bonesj0nes bones
if this glen rice/sarah palin thing is true it's the most amazing thing i've ever heard

7 Mattand  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:15:48am
“I am a registered Democrat, I have always been a registered Democrat, I come from a family of Democrats — and I hate to say this, I voted Republican,” said Linda Goldberg, 61, after casting her ballot in Queens. “I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

All due respect to Ms. Goldberg, but voting for the party that enabled much of the current economic disaster is pretty fucking stupid.

8 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:19:30am

re: #6 ProLifeLiberal

I'm seeing a rumor about Sarah Palin on Twitter.

Random Tweet below to Explain:

Glen Rice and Sarah Palin two people whom I never thought I'd see in the same sentence. I remember Rice from when I used to play NBA Jam and Live.

9 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:19:56am

re: #6 ProLifeLiberal

I'm seeing a rumor about Sarah Palin on Twitter.

Random Tweet below to Explain:

NY Daily News has picked it up.

The Palin family must hate Joe McGinness with the heat of a thousand suns right now.

(Apologies for the threadjack.)

10 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:21:21am

re: #9 makeitstop

NY Daily News has picked it up.

The Palin family must hate Joe McGinness with the heat of a thousand suns right now.

Although it does make me want to see a revamped version of Sarah Palin's Alaska now.

11 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:21:39am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

re: #9 makeitstop

This could be special. Hold on to your hats.

12 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:21:53am

re: #9 makeitstop

Oh, lordy. This is gonna get real ugly real fast. *grimace*

13 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:23:13am

re: #5 blueraven

The win by Turner will likely hasten its elimination/combination with neighboring districts as part of the redistricting.

It would likely mean that NY-9 will be subsumed by its neighboring districts, and if Turner wants to run again, he'll go up against incumbents who are well entrenched.

This is a district with which I am quite familiar. I grew up there and lived a good part of my life there. It's a strong Democrat district, but it's got a conservative streak (NY-style conservative). Howard Beach and the Rockaways, particularly Breezy Pt. are more conservative on some issues, and gay marriage may have helped sway things some as Weprin voted to approve that.

As I posted on the dead thread, Weprin was an adequate candidate, but a bland one who didn't exactly run an inspired race. It was as though he was running as an entitled candidate rather than one who thought he needed to convince voters he should win.

Does this send a message to the President and Democrats? Absolutely. It means take nothing for granted and put candidates up that want to win and don't take winning for granted. You need to inspire people to vote for you, not merely run because you've won before and should do so again. There was an assumption here that Weprin would win because it's a 2-1 D to R electorate. The GOP got out the vote and Democrats sat back too. Having key local leaders like Rudy or Koch come out for Turner doesn't help either.

14 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:23:16am
Our economy is horrible. People are scared.

The lesson Republican strategists will take from this is:

DESTROY AMERICA = WIN!

15 nines09  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:23:52am

re: #9 makeitstop

This just made my day week month year.

16 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:24:29am

re: #13 lawhawk

The win by Turner will likely hasten its elimination/combination with neighboring districts as part of the redistricting.

It would likely mean that NY-9 will be subsumed by its neighboring districts, and if Turner wants to run again, he'll go up against incumbents who are well entrenched.

This is a district with which I am quite familiar. I grew up there and lived a good part of my life there. It's a strong Democrat district, but it's got a conservative streak (NY-style conservative). Howard Beach and the Rockaways, particularly Breezy Pt. are more conservative on some issues, and gay marriage may have helped sway things some as Weprin voted to approve that.

As I posted on the dead thread, Weprin was an adequate candidate, but a bland one who didn't exactly run an inspired race. It was as though he was running as an entitled candidate rather than one who thought he needed to convince voters he should win.

Does this send a message to the President and Democrats? Absolutely. It means take nothing for granted and put candidates up that want to win and don't take winning for granted. You need to inspire people to vote for you, not merely run because you've won before and should do so again. There was an assumption here that Weprin would win because it's a 2-1 D to R electorate. The GOP got out the vote and Democrats sat back too. Having key local leaders like Rudy or Koch come out for Turner doesn't help either.

I am not a New Yorker but I imagine Koch and Rudy were quite popular in that district during their times as mayor. I think Weprin made the same mistake that Martha Coakley made in Massachusetts, he thought his party label was good enough. He's probably not a bad guy but one that thought is win was a gimme.

17 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:24:38am

re: #15 nines09

This just made my day week month year. decade

FTFY

18 dragonath  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:25:12am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

Ha. I used to play that a lot on the the Genesis.

"HE'S ON FIIIRE!!!!!"

19 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:25:42am

Unfortunately, many in the Orthodox community - particularly the more black hat end of it and particularly amongst older voters, have drunk some the the GOP cool-aid. This is largely due to Obama's policies - or lack of policies in the mid-East. The vast bulk of Jewish voters, even amongst the observant branches will vote Dem.

They will pinch their noses to do it though, because Obama has tossed Israel under the bus more than once, rescinded agreements made by earlier administrations and has helped (I believe unwittingly, though he should have known better) embolden the sorts of people who really will celebrate butchering families down to the infants. Attacks in Israel keep mounting. To be fair to Obama, he has come around somewhat on the realities of the Middle East and lost some of his naivetee about the non-existent Arab desire for peace or the reasonableness of Israel's neighbours. However, the damage was done to him early on and his recent efforts to amend his image on that front have borne little fruit.

None the less, most Jews are not one issue voters. Most Jews understand that the GOP alternative is vastly worse because most Jews like things like education, freedom of religion, kindness to poor people, protecting the environment etc... Last but not least, most Jews can not stand uneducated, crude and ignorant people. There is just too much intellectual pride to really like someone like Perry or Bachman. Romney would have had a chance, but not with the things Romney has been saying lately.

The larger issue though for Obama, is he really has managed to piss off almost everyone in his base. Not all of it is his fault, and much can be laid to blame at the feet of a disorganized and self serving Democratic party in congress that never once could get a consistent message out, raise the spine to confront GOP lies and propaganda, act decisively or even support their own president. Even so, Obama has pissed of the scientific community and the environmental community through his failure to push the issue of preventing catastrophic climate change. His recent retreat on EPA regulation designed to put us back before the Haliburton loopholes of 2005 is a fine example of a history of failure in this arena. Education was forgotten. His failure to prioritize and pass a budget first followed by the healthcare fight has given the GOP undreamed of leverage that they are mad enough to use and hold the nation hostage with.

Worst of all, he has abandoned labor. Labor is his largest organized voting block and there is no real peep from him on protecting Unions and worker's rights.

The result is that many Dems foolishly see staying home or voting for the other side as a form of protest if the GOP guy in their district doesn't sound too loopy. This is ultimately self defeating, since the average Dem is not at all in the social club that the GOP serves, however, Obama has managed to loose his shine with the largest and most vocal blocks of his base.

What must be done is to remind people of how bad the alternative really is, and pray that is sufficient to get those voter blocks out to the polls. If Dems stay home in disgust or protest, then this country is in for a terrible time.

20 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:26:14am

re: #6 ProLifeLiberal

I'm seeing a rumor about Sarah Palin on Twitter.

Random Tweet below to Explain:

He must have had a thing for crispy bangs.

Image: tumblr_l9s67nN6ZU1qbs6n7o1_400.jpg

21 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:26:39am

re: #15 nines09

This just made my day week month year.

According to McGinness, Rice confirmed the story.

22 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:27:09am

re: #9 makeitstop

Eh... happened before she got married (though it is possible that this allegedly occurred while dating Todd.

Not exactly earth shattering news. But because this is Palin, it will be touted across the media outlets for days to come.

23 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:27:53am

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

...because Obama has tossed Israel under the bus more than once.

I missed that. When did that happen?

24 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:27:54am

re: #18 dragonath

Ha. I used to play that a lot on the the Genesis.

"HE'S ON FIIIRE!!!"

Yep me too. Good times. It was Blitz before there was Blitz and a better game too because Blitz always had turnovers happen at the most inconvenient moments.

25 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:28:20am

re: #22 lawhawk

Eh... happened before she got married (though it is possible that this allegedly occurred while dating Todd.

Not exactly earth shattering news. But because this is Palin, it will be touted across the media outlets for days to come.

The nailing of Todd's business partner apparently happened after they had been married several years.

26 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:30:23am

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

They will pinch their noses to do it though, because Obama has tossed Israel under the bus more than once, rescinded agreements made by earlier administrations

I don't think he has actually done that, it's just disinformation spread by the Anti-Obama bots or just to stir things up.

For example: how many Jews still believe the Associated Press derp of "1967 borders"?

27 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:30:35am

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

You might be interested in this page I put up - helps rebut the idiotic GOP "durr hurr, enviro-friendly is job-killing" meme.

28 recusancy  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:31:43am

re: #23 Charleston Chew

I missed that. When did that happen?

He didn't kiss Bibi's boots.

29 dragonfire1981  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:32:16am

This is EXACTLY what GOP want for 2012: brainwash voters into thinking all the economic problems are Obamas fault.

If they can convince more voters to think like the former Dem above, President Perry could be an inevitability.

30 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:32:24am

re: #16 HappyWarrior

David's father Saul was a former NYS Assembly speaker, and the name carried weight; his brother Mark was also big in local politics. I think he believed at some level that he was entitled to the seat and the election was a formality too.

Weprin's vote on approving the gay marriage law may have turned off some of the more conservative (religious conservatives) in his district who would otherwise have been inclined to vote for a Democrat.

31 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:33:38am

re: #23 Charleston Chew

I missed that. When did that happen?

Fascinating that you missed something so blatant that it impacted a voting block known for being over 90% Dem since the days of FDR.

Are you actually interested in a short part of a very long list, list, or are you responding politically?

32 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:33:45am

Vacated Seat

i feel pretty vacated these days myself...

33 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:33:53am

re: #19 LudwigVanQuixote

I am sorry, but you must be wrong. This result has little to do with Obama. Charles and Debbie Wasserman Schultz have already said so.

Linda Goldberg, 61 of Queens NY is clearly a DINO, and a member of the "large number of people who went to the polls tonight who didn’t support the president to begin with and don’t support Democrats".

/sarcasm

34 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:34:10am

re: #30 lawhawk

David's father Saul was a former NYS Assembly speaker, and the name carried weight; his brother Mark was also big in local politics. I think he believed at some level that he was entitled to the seat and the election was a formality too.

Weprin's vote on approving the gay marriage law may have turned off some of the more conservative (religious conservatives) in his district who would otherwise have been inclined to vote for a Democrat.

The 'victory mosque' mailer that his opponent sent out probably didn't help, either.

35 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:34:30am

re: #30 lawhawk

David's father Saul was a former NYS Assembly speaker, and the name carried weight; his brother Mark was also big in local politics. I think he believed at some level that he was entitled to the seat and the election was a formality too.

Weprin's vote on approving the gay marriage law may have turned off some of the more conservative (religious conservatives) in his district who would otherwise have been inclined to vote for a Democrat.

Interesting, thanks. I think you're right about that and the gay marriage thing. I have a great aunt, lifelong Democrat who voted for Bush over Kerry because she's anti abortion and didn't like Kerry's strong pro choice record.

36 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:35:27am

Ah, Buck has dropped by to gloat. How cute.

37 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:36:07am

Here is why you cannot vote for the GOP:

Rand Paul: 'the poor are getting richer even faster.'

38 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:37:26am

re: #31 LudwigVanQuixote

Fascinating that you missed something so blatant that it impacted a voting block known for being over 90% Dem since the days of FDR.

Are you actually interested in a short part of a very long list, list, or are you responding politically?

It was a sincere question. I wasn't aware that the President "tossed Israel under the bus" even once.

39 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:38:13am

re: #33 Buck

I am sorry, but you must be wrong. This result has little to do with Obama. Charles and Debbie Wasserman Schultz have already said so.

Linda Goldberg, 61 of Queens NY is clearly a DINO, and a member of the "large number of people who went to the polls tonight who didn’t support the president to begin with and don’t support Democrats".

/sarcasm

If it was a referral what do you suggest Obama do differently?

40 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:40:19am
“I am a registered Democrat, I have always been a registered Democrat, I come from a family of Democrats — and I hate to say this, I voted Republican,” said Linda Goldberg, 61, after casting her ballot in Queens. “I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

I need to send my husband a message that I'm not happy in our marriage. So, I'll sleep with the guy who just got out of jail for stalking his ex and shooting her dog.

41 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:41:48am

re: #28 recusancy

He didn't kiss Bibi's boots.

Are you trying to be an ass?

He relegated Bibi to a side door meeting with a downgrade on his position and recognition as a head of state... This is not about Obama bowing to the Prime Minister, no one demanded that - just the same level of recognition that any other head of state would receive. It was a pointed message about Israel having a definite lower status in teh eyes of his administration - one that is generally reserved for officials from places we don't recognize.

But much worse, he abruptly backed out of an agreement, made in the Clinton administration on Jerusalem. In exchange for weakening the Gaza Egypt border - the direct result of which has been an increase in military supplies going to Hamas and increased attacks on Israeli civilians, Israel was going to have the support for natural Demographic growth in Jerusalem. Israel lived up to that bargain - at the cost of lives. Apparently, in the new Obama only Arabs are only allowed to build any new housing in the capital of the Jewish state and Jews are still dying.

42 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:41:58am

re: #26 Alouette

..... it's just disinformation spread by the Anti-Obama bots or just to stir things up.

For example: how many Jews still believe the Associated Press derp of "1967 borders"?

It isn't 'derp'. And it isn't just that one speech.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Like it or not, Obama has learned his history of the region from bad sources. It is becoming clear that many on the left has that in common with him. J-Street, Media Matters....

It isn't "Obama hates Israel".... no one really thinks that he hates either side in the region. And that is a problem for many.

43 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:42:48am

re: #5 blueraven

I believe that was the message sent out by former NY mayor Ed Koch. He encouraged Democrats to send the President a message.

Also, because this district is going to be eliminated in all probability next year, I think many democrats might not really give a shit about a one year term in an already highly republican dominated house.

And therefore the message is....what?

44 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:42:55am

re: #38 Charleston Chew

It was a sincere question. I wasn't aware that the President "tossed Israel under the bus" even once.

Associated Press reported that Obama told Israel to retreat to the pre-1967 borders, which he totally did not say (this was live blogged on LGF). Unfortunately this became a meme.

45 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:43:35am

re: #43 Bulworth

And therefore the message is...what?

That Ed Koch is a DINO?

46 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:44:20am

re: #44 Alouette

Associated Press reported that Obama told Israel to retreat to the pre-1967 borders, which he totally did not say (this was live blogged on LGF). Unfortunately this became a meme.

And then Bibi actually said the same thing at a later date, didn't he?

47 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:44:47am

re: #39 jamesfirecat

If it was a referral what do you suggest Obama do differently?

You and I have already discussed that at length.

Obama is trying to move the US policy to the middle, to be more of a “neutral player” in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

If you want to be in the middle, or think of yourself as neutral that is fine. In fact it plays well to the American sense of fairness. It sounds good to say "we are not taking sides and only want to help both sides.

However America long ago decided that it was not going to be neutral. To many of the Jews it is as simple as "you are either with us or against us" We have seen the effect of neutral in the past, and we didn't like it.

The main reason for Israel is that forever more there will be at least one government what will never "be neutral".

48 recusancy  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:44:56am

re: #42 Buck

It isn't "Obama hates Israel"... no one really thinks that he hates either side in the region. And that is a problem for many.

Ah. Finally some honesty. He doesn't sufficiently hate Palestinians.

There you have it folks.

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:45:29am

re: #45 makeitstop

That Ed Koch is a DINO?

Ooooh. Is he a velociraptor, a T-rex, a horned dinosaur like a triceratops?

I have to admit I'd pay more attention to debates if one of the candidates might rip one of the others into little pieces.

50 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:45:48am

re: #46 makeitstop

And then Bibi actually said the same thing at a later date, didn't he?

The same thing as what? The same thing that Obama actually said, or the same thing that AP reported?
(What Obama actually said did not deviate from what the Bush Administration said)

51 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:45:50am

re: #47 Buck

You and I have already discussed that at length.

So you feel it was a referendum on Israel?

What leads you to that conclusion?

52 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:46:14am

I blame Anthony Weiner.

53 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:46:29am

re: #48 recusancy

Ah. Finally some honesty. He doesn't sufficiently hate Palestinians.

There you have it folks.

You twist my words, and not very well.

54 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:46:33am

re: #49 EmmmieG

Ooooh. Is he a velociraptor, a T-rex, a horned dinosaur like a triceratops?

I have to admit I'd pay more attention to debates if one of the candidates might rip one of the others into little pieces.

Every time I read 'Dino,' I think of Fred Flintstone's 'dog.' :)

55 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:46:39am

re: #26 Alouette

GOP lies and disinformation do not help of course. You will notice in my opening sentence, I mentioned that unfortunately some of us have drank the GOP cool-aid.

However, the treatment of Bibi and the reneging on Jerusalem are quite real and very not cool. Even worse than that, he had repeatedly linked American aid to Israel with Israel not shooting back to ever mounting rocket attacks. That has softened somewhat right now since Obama can not afford politically to openly put that sort of pressure on Israel as much - and also because I truly think that his experience has taught him some more clear thinking about the realities of the Mid East.

56 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:48:34am

re: #50 Alouette

The same thing as what? The same thing that Obama actually said, or the same thing that AP reported?
(What Obama actually said did not deviate from what the Bush Administration said)

The same thing that Obama said, I'm pretty sure.

57 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:49:07am

re: #56 makeitstop

The same thing that Obama said, I'm pretty sure.

That is nothing new.

58 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:50:05am

re: #52 wrenchwench

I blame Anthony Weiner.

It was the camera's fault!

People don't take nasty pictures of themselves, cameras taken nasty pictures of them.

Or something like that.

59 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:50:27am

re: #51 jamesfirecat

So you feel it was a referendum on Israel?

What leads you to that conclusion?

Not JUST Israel. I never said that. BUT it did have more than a little to do with the President. To deny that is to deny Linda Goldberg, 61 of Queens.

And yes, Obama's foreign policy decisions as they effect Israel is part of it. However I posted the stuff about Israel in response to others saying that Obama didn't say and do things to make supporters of Israel uneasy.

60 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:51:26am

re: #56 makeitstop

No not the same thing. I detail the differences here:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

61 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:51:55am

re: #38 Charleston Chew

Fair enough... The reneging on Jerusalem is a great place to start the list. The pressure on Israel not to defend itself is another. Again to be fair, he did turn around a bit in last year's blockade debacle by carefully saying nothing, however, like I said the damage to his image in the Jewish community has been done and it is not going to go away.

And to those who down ding the fact that Obama really did renege on that deal and Jewish lives had already been lost, well, you can disagree with my opinions as much as you want, but please don't get cranky over things that are well covered and part of the record. Trying to ignore facts just because you don't like them is a very Republican thing to do.

62 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:52:53am

twist my words

this has been elevated to an art form of political origami in some quarters...

63 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:53:23am
The people she should be “sending messages” to are the Republicans who obstruct and attack everything Obama does. It’s beyond me how anyone thinks this kind of “message” does anything but further strengthen the deranged Republican Party.

It's real simple, the media says that sending a message to the president means one has to vote for the other party even if they're the ones to blame.

64 recusancy  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:54:01am

Don't forget about the "ground zero mosque" mailers. Bigotry still works.

65 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:54:10am

re: #59 Buck

Not JUST Israel. I never said that. BUT it did have more than a little to do with the President. To deny that is to deny Linda Goldberg, 61 of Queens.

Why, sure! What one person says in Queens is a wonderfully reliable indicator of national political trends. Thank goodness we have you, Buck, to point out these simple truths.

66 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:54:55am

re: #59 Buck

Not JUST Israel. I never said that. BUT it did have more than a little to do with the President. To deny that is to deny Linda Goldberg, 61 of Queens.

And yes, Obama's foreign policy decisions as they effect Israel is part of it. However I posted the stuff about Israel in response to others saying that Obama didn't say and do things to make supporters of Israel uneasy.

I don't have a problem with seeing it as a vote against Obama, I have an issue seeing it as a vote against Obama based on Israel without further proof.

What Goldberg said was....

"I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

That sounds more like an economic vote against the President than a foreign policy based one.....


So to get back to the issue at hand, if the election as a whole (as opposed to only certain people's votes) were cast with sending a message to Obama in mind, what do you think that message was, why do you think it was that message in particular, and what should he do about it?

67 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:55:36am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Because the obvious way to get things done is to elect more obstructionists who can't be trusted to keep a deal, threaten government shutdowns, and hold up legislation to win concessions for their social agenda.

Good point, but it only plays with those who delve deeply into the facts surrounding events. Like us around here. My disagreement with the post is the dichotomy between "nothing to do with the President" and the quote Charles does not understand, as in it's a view divorced from reality. But if (yes a huge if) that shallow view is common Obama is in big trouble for re-election.And the anti Israel meme is fully fledged and accepted in much of the Jewish community.

68 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:55:48am

re: #27 publicityStunted

You might be interested in this page I put up - helps rebut the idiotic GOP "durr hurr, enviro-friendly is job-killing" meme.

Good job!

69 Summer Seale  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:55:50am

Somebody has probably already posted this, but I just found this on my stream on G+ and figured I'd share.

Daily Kos Diary: That was my brother's death you were cheering, you a$$holes.

70 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:55:53am

re: #59 Buck

Not JUST Israel. I never said that. BUT it did have more than a little to do with the President. To deny that is to deny Linda Goldberg, 61 of Queens.

And yes, Obama's foreign policy decisions as they effect Israel is part of it. However I posted the stuff about Israel in response to others saying that Obama didn't say and do things to make supporters of Israel uneasy.

Why does Linda Goldberg get to define an entire voting bloc but not the Vicious Babushka?

71 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:56:04am

re: #41 LudwigVanQuixote

Are you trying to be an ass?

He relegated Bibi to a side door meeting with a downgrade on his position and recognition as a head of state... This is not about Obama bowing to the Prime Minister, no one demanded that - just the same level of recognition that any other head of state would receive.

I didn't know that. I was just going on what Isreal's ambassador to Washington said about that not happening:

Oren: Obama did not ‘snub’ Netanyahu

As the Ambassador explained carefully, one of his great frustrations is needing to consistently knock down the false “snub” story of Prime Minister Netanyahu’s recent visit to the White House. As the Ambassador noted:

o There are normally no photos in such a non-state visit;

o He came in through the front door, not the back door;

o It was a last-minute meeting as the President had expected to be out of the country;

o The First Lady and their children were actually not in town;

o They worked closely and positively until late at night;

o The Prime Minister asked if he could stay to meet with his team and the White House said “of course;”

o The Prime Minister asked if the President could return later to hear new ideas and he gladly did;

o They parted on good terms, etc.

o It was not until the following morning that the Ambassador read that the visit was described as a “snub,” and he was shocked.

72 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:56:32am

re: #52 wrenchwench

I blame Anthony Weiner.

You are right, and it shows why it pays to behave. The consequences go beyond the family.

73 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:57:11am

re: #22 lawhawk

Eh... happened before she got married (though it is possible that this allegedly occurred while dating Todd.

Not exactly earth shattering news. But because this is Palin, it will be touted across the media outlets for days to come.

Single woman, fresh out of college, assigned to a sports desk at a local TV station sleeps with single college bb player during tournament the station is covering

That never happens!!
/

74 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 10:59:48am

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

...he had repeatedly linked American aid to Israel with Israel not shooting back to ever mounting rocket attacks.

I wasn't aware of that. I'd like to read more about it. Do you have a link?

75 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:01:27am

re: #60 Buck

No not the same thing. I detail the differences here:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I see no 'detailing' of the differences between what Obama said and what Netanyahu said.

76 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:01:38am

re: #73 sattv4u2

Single woman, fresh out of college, assigned to a sports desk at a local TV station sleeps with single college bb player during tournament the station is covering

That never happens!!
/

IIRC, Palin's pretty heavily into abstinence-only programs.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

77 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:03:16am

re: #66 jamesfirecat

I don't have a problem with seeing it as a vote against Obama,

OK, but that goes against what Debbie Wasserman Schultz tells you.


I have an issue seeing it as a vote against Obama based on Israel without further proof.

You will need to look at the demographics of the area. The Jewish vote changed sides. Something that people never thought would happen.

So to get back to the issue at hand, if the election as a whole (as opposed to only certain people's votes) were cast with sending a message to Obama in mind, what do you think that message was, why do you think it was that message in particular, and what should he do about it?

I say he should work harder to convince a majority of the representatives that his policy is correct, and that they should vote for his bill.

I think that by delaying the bill until days after his speech, and separating it from the "how it will be paid for" bill, Obama is playing games and NOT even allowing the elected representatives the opportunity to show support. (If it isn't fully written, it is hard to support because you don't want to get surprised later.)

And he is being misleading. "Fully Paid For" does not mean a ten year installment plan. In his speech he made reference to entitlement programs... Did any of that show up in the Bill? Will it?

Even Democrats won't vote for it without fully knowing the details.

78 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:03:32am

re: #76 BongCrodny

IIRC, Palin's pretty heavily into abstinence-only programs.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

My farther has abstained from drinking alcohol for the better part of 25 years now

Thankfully, he has been successful

Prior to that, not so much

79 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:03:51am

re: #61 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough... The reneging on Jerusalem is a great place to start the list.

I'd like to read about this, as well. Where can I find more information? I don't know what key words to use to Google it.

80 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:05:31am

re: #71 Charleston Chew

I didn't know that. I was just going on what Isreal's ambassador to Washington said about that not happening:

Oren: Obama did not ‘snub’ Netanyahu

Yes, Israel can't afford to piss off the US too much, and of course they made it sound all nice.

However, Bibi rather clearly in speeches at that time made clear what he thought of Obama's Mid East policy ideas - and as far as Obama was concerned went very far off the reservation.

If you look further, you will find an entire spate of articles about a rift between Israel and the US at about that time - and not all from GOP propagandists. Israeli papers actually attacked Bibi for not kissing Obama's ass enough because even a luke warm US president is still the leader of Israel's largest ally. Other Israelis (and not far right ones) noted argued that Bibi had no choice but to make a stand since Obama was putting the nation at risk.

81 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:05:38am

re: #65 Charles

Why, sure! What one person says in Queens is a wonderfully reliable indicator of national political trends. Thank goodness we have you, Buck, to point out these simple truths.

On the other hand, as Rochester goes, so goes the country. (No, seriously, it's a recommended test market for national products.)

82 sagehen  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:05:42am

Efraim Halevy (former Mossad director) credits Obama with saving the Embassy Israelis in Cairo...

83 TNChuckster  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:06:26am

Link is to a current WSJ article titled 'Why Obama is losing the jewish vote' by Dan Senor -

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

84 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:07:07am

re: #79 Charleston Chew

I'd like to read about this, as well. Where can I find more information? I don't know what key words to use to Google it.

Yeah, I would like to see that too.

Is this just referring to the noises that were made when Israel announced they were resuming building in Jewish neighborhoods like Ramat Shlomo and Pisgat Ze'ev?

85 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:09:48am

Look, The simple truth is, like it or not, Obama is in trouble. It doesn't matter that the economy was in the midst of a free fall when he took office. People expected him to fix everything. And you can argue that he had the ability to do whatever he wanted when he got elected. but that's only as true so long as he could convince people like Nelson and Lincoln to go along with any ideas. The US economy is barely keeping out of a double dip recession now that the stimulus packages are winding down and Europe is on the verge of a systemic collapse of their banking system. Fair or not, it won't take many people deciding that more change is needed to find ourselves with President Perry.

As far as the Election in NY-9 goes, Throw in a crippled economy, some disinformation and fear, and a generally poor candidate. Yeah, the seat was going to switch. Having a sealed 25 year old custody ruling leaked on Weprin didn't help.

86 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:12:06am

re: #78 sattv4u2

My farther has abstained from drinking alcohol for the better part of 25 years now


Thankfully, he has been successful

Prior to that, not so much

I used to long for the six weeks of Lent, because...

As one "child of an alcoholic" to another, you can probably figure out why.

I'm guessing it will come as no surprise to you that equally, I dreaded when Lent ended.

87 TNChuckster  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:13:43am

re: #85 bloodstar

Nor did it help when he said the debt was 4 trillion, not 14 trillion.

88 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:13:50am

re: #77 Buck

OK, but that goes against what Debbie Wasserman Schultz tells you.

I have an issue seeing it as a vote against Obama based on Israel without further proof.

You will need to look at the demographics of the area. The Jewish vote changed sides. Something that people never thought would happen.

I say he should work harder to convince a majority of the representatives that his policy is correct, and that they should vote for his bill.

I think that by delaying the bill until days after his speech, and separating it from the "how it will be paid for" bill, Obama is playing games and NOT even allowing the elected representatives the opportunity to show support. (If it isn't fully written, it is hard to support because you don't want to get surprised later.)

And he is being misleading. "Fully Paid For" does not mean a ten year installment plan. In his speech he made reference to entitlement programs... Did any of that show up in the Bill? Will it?

Even Democrats won't vote for it without fully knowing the details.

I've also heard some people say that the Jewish vote turned against the Democrats/against Wasserman because he voted to allow legalize Gay Marriage in New York.

[Link: www.thejewishweek.com...]

What do you make of the theory that this caused the Jews to vote against Wasserman rather than Obama's policy on Israel?

89 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:13:56am

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Keep in mind the current Israeli administration hates Obama with the heat of a thousand suns. Jeffery Goldberg has written about the venom directed towards Obama from Lieberman and company over the last couple of years.

I'd take a huge grain of salt any bellyaching from the Israeli administration about Obama right now.

90 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:16:15am

re: #88 jamesfirecat

I've also heard some people say that the Jewish vote turned against the Democrats/against Wasserman because he voted to allow legalize Gay Marriage in New York.

[Link: www.thejewishweek.com...]

What do you make of the theory that this caused the Jews to vote against Wasserman rather than Obama's policy on Israel?

Weprin ran in NY. Wasserman is a she, and she's from Florida.

91 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:16:19am

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, Israel can't afford to piss off the US too much, and of course they made it sound all nice.

So you think the ambassador can't possibly be telling the truth?

However, Bibi rather clearly in speeches at that time made clear what he thought of Obama's Mid East policy ideas - and as far as Obama was concerned went very far off the reservation.

One can be a supporter of Israel without being a supporter Netanyahu or Likud. And if you fall into that category, (I do myself) then Bibi is gonna have a beef with you. That's just politics. We need to seperate Netanyahu's personal beefs from what's best for Israel.

92 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:16:32am

re: #90 makeitstop

Weprin ran in NY. Wasserman is a she, and she's from Florida.

Whoops my bad. Too late to edit sadly, but link is still for the right person.

93 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:17:29am

"So to get back to the issue at hand, if the election as a whole (as opposed to only certain people's votes) were cast with sending a message to Obama in mind, what do you think that message was, why do you think it was that message in particular, and what should he do about it?"

Maybe he could arrange a speech in front of Congress and propose a long list of items designed to win GOP votes, like tax credits and a continuation of the payroll tax cut.

Or maybe Ms. Goldberg wasn't paying attention to that.

94 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:17:35am

re: #92 jamesfirecat

Whoops my bad.

No prob.

95 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:17:56am

re: #83 TNChuckster

Link is to a current WSJ article titled 'Why Obama is losing the jewish vote' by Dan Senor -

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

WSJ editorial is comprised of evil lying scumbags. That's not my opinion. That's fact.

96 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:20:32am

"And he is being misleading. "Fully Paid For" does not mean a ten year installment plan."

I can't wait for the next GOP administration to take over. Any subsequent wars, occupations and spending proposals won't need to be "paid for".

97 sagehen  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:21:29am

re: #83 TNChuckster

Link is to a current WSJ article titled 'Why Obama is losing the jewish vote' by Dan Senor -

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Except Obama's not losing the Jewish vote. I'm hard-pressed to think what any Democrat could do to lose the Jewish vote -- he pulled 77% in 2008, dropping to 75% is no tragedy.

(and even if he did lose the Jewish vote... Jews are mostly in New York and California. Does anybody think there's the slightest possibility either of those would go Republican?)

98 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:22:04am

re: #95 Charleston Chew

WSJ editorial is comprised of evil lying scumbags. That's not my opinion. That's fact.

Dan Senor is not exactly an objective bystander either.

99 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:22:15am

re: #65 Charles

Why, sure! What one person says in Queens is a wonderfully reliable indicator of national political trends. Thank goodness we have you, Buck, to point out these simple truths.

National? No. Local? Yes.

You think you can find a long term democrat that will say they voted against the Democrat because they were offended by Wiener?

How can it have little to do with the President? Long term democrats voted Republican. It was not as Debbie Wasserman Schultz says.

100 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:22:20am

"And he is being misleading. "Fully Paid For" does not mean a ten year installment plan."

You do realize, don't you, that the budget cuts the Super Committee is supposed to come up with will be distributed over ten years, i.e. on a "ten year installment plan"?

101 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:22:53am

re: #99 Buck

Lol, you're such an amusing troll.

102 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:23:37am

re: #100 Bulworth

"And he is being misleading. "Fully Paid For" does not mean a ten year installment plan."

You do realize, don't you, that the budget cuts the Super Committee is supposed to come up with will be distributed over ten years, i.e. on a "ten year installment plan"?

Don't bother. He's just here to parrot talking points.

103 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:23:57am

re: #95 Charleston Chew

WSJ editorial is comprised of evil lying scumbags. That's not my opinion. That's fact.

If you don't like that one, you'll really hate this one:

Jewish Donors Warn Obama on Israel

Jewish donors and fund-raisers are warning the Obama re-election campaign that the president is at risk of losing financial support because of concerns about his handling of Israel.

The complaints began early in President Barack Obama's term, centered on a perception that Mr. Obama has been too tough on Israel.

Some Jewish donors say Mr. Obama has pushed Israeli leaders too hard to halt construction of housing settlements in disputed territory, a longstanding element of U.S. policy. Some also worry that Mr. Obama is putting more pressure on the Israelis than the Palestinians to enter peace negotiations, and say they are disappointed Mr. Obama has not visited Israel yet.

...Robert Copeland, a Virginia Beach, Va., developer, who has given large donations to many Democrats, has already decided he won't vote for Mr. Obama in 2012. "I'm very disappointed with him," he said. "His administration has failed in Israel. They degraded the Israeli people."

...Some of the misgivings among Jewish supporters can be traced to specific incidents that resonated in the Jewish community. Last year, for example, Israeli media suggested Mr. Obama had snubbed Mr. Netanyahu and an Israeli delegation by leaving a White House meeting early.

The White House and Israeli officials disputed that characterization. But the incident left a lasting impression. "It was a snub," said former New York Mayor Ed Koch, who campaigned for Mr. Obama in 2008. "My feeling was that the president was hostile to Israel."

104 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:24:24am

re: #101 Varek Raith

Lol, you're such an amusing troll.

I beg to differ. On the adjective, not the noun.

105 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:25:01am

re: #89 bloodstar

Keep in mind the current Israeli administration hates Obama with the heat of a thousand suns. Jeffery Goldberg has written about the venom directed towards Obama from Lieberman and company over the last couple of years.

I'd take a huge grain of salt any bellyaching from the Israeli administration about Obama right now.

Avigdor Lieberman does not represent the entire Israeli administration. He is a member of the coalition because of Israel's f&cked up electoral system, and he is a raging fascist, but he represents a fringe element, not the majority of the coalition members.

106 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:26:55am

re: #99 Buck

National? No. Local? Yes.

You think you can find a long term democrat that will say they voted against the Democrat because they were offended by Wiener?

How can it have little to do with the President? Long term democrats voted Republican. It was not as Debbie Wasserman Schultz says.

Once again what do you make of all the people who say that Jews voted Republican in this election because of Weprin's support for gay marriage

[Link: www.google.com...]

There seems to be far too much of this for my liking since if it turns out to be true, thank frankly those Jewish voters weren't worth having in the first place. Which is why its an important hypothesis that I want to hear your thoughts on Buck, why do you think backlash for a pro gay marriage vote wasn't the cause for the jewish vote flip flop?

107 TNChuckster  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:27:03am

re: #97 sagehen

President Obama's approval rate in that particular district has been more like 40%... I haven't looked for National figures for Jewish support.

108 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:28:27am

re: #33 Buck

I am sorry, but you must be wrong. This result has little to do with Obama. Charles and Debbie Wasserman Schultz have already said so.

Linda Goldberg, 61 of Queens NY is clearly a DINO, and a member of the "large number of people who went to the polls tonight who didn’t support the president to begin with and don’t support Democrats".

/sarcasm

Ah, Bucky me lad.

Your smarmy and ill informed opinions are always a huge hit. I await them with all the enthusiasm of a young woman who is trying to avoid kissing her maloderous and noisome male companion goodnight after a failed first date.

109 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:29:54am

re: #105 Alouette

Avigdor Lieberman does not represent the entire Israeli administration. He is a member of the coalition because of Israel's f&cked up electoral system, and he is a raging fascist, but he represents a fringe element, not the majority of the coalition members.

Agreed that Lieberman is simply one person, but Netanyahu is just as guilty by enabling the Israeli media to presume the worst about Obama, even it means letting lies and disinformation spread that negatively affect relations with the United States. It's almost like Netanyahu and company feel that the Republicans will remain just as willing to conduct wars in other Mideast countries as Bush was.

What they don't realize is the Republican party is rapidly turning into a xenophobic isolationist party. It's ironic that Obama is a bigger supporter of Israel than most of the presidential candidates are. I think Obama would go to bat for Israel. I don't think Perry or Romney would.

110 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:30:00am

re: #107 TNChuckster

President Obama's approval rate in that particular district has been more like 40%... I haven't looked for National figures for Jewish support.

Luckily he keeps getting far more than 40% in head to head matchups against the actual Republicans who are running...

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Only Romney is ahead and what are the odds he'll survive the Teapartypaloza that is this Republican Primary?

111 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:30:08am

re: #88 jamesfirecat

What do you make of the theory that this caused the Jews to vote against (a Democrat) rather than Obama's policy on Israel?

Obama's policies on Israel are what is being discussed. Loud and clear.

You hear people calling it propaganda, or Derp. You will hear that democrats that voted for the Republican were stupid. You will hear that the President's policies had little to do with the results. Maybe the Democrats "let them win"?

Ludwig and I are telling you something. This is happening. It happened recently in Canada.

Ignore the evidence if you wish.

112 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:30:28am

Rick Perry at Liberty U. today:

Jerry Falwell, Jr., the school's chancellor, praised Perry's record in Texas and even told reporters that Perry's suggestions of secession were "gutsy," according to NBC.

Some people are determined to vote notObama, no matter who that might be.

113 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:30:44am

re: #99 Buck

National? No. Local? Yes.

You think you can find a long term democrat that will say they voted against the Democrat because they were offended by Wiener?

How can it have little to do with the President? Long term democrats voted Republican. It was not as Debbie Wasserman Schultz says.

unfortunately, attempts by individuals to psychically retrieve and tabulate the internal and unspoken motivations of tens of thousands of people in voting booths remains an act of imagination, not science

114 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:31:48am

re: #108 celticdragon

Ah, Bucky me lad.

Your smarmy and ill informed opinions are always a huge hit. I await them with all the enthusiasm of a young women who is trying to avoid kissing her maloderous and noisome male companion goodnight after a failed first date.

OUCH!

115 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:32:21am

re: #111 Buck

Obama's policies on Israel are what is being discussed. Loud and clear.

You hear people calling it propaganda, or Derp. You will hear that democrats that voted for the Republican were stupid. You will hear that the President's policies had little to do with the results. Maybe the Democrats "let them win"?

Ludwig and I are telling you something. This is happening. It happened recently in Canada.

Ignore the evidence if you wish.

Buck that doesn't answer my question all you're doing is presenting me with a hypothesis not any proof for it.

You and LVQ are an incredibly small sample size and you being Canadian don't even count for the election, and I'm willing to bet that for all he bitches about Obama LVQ doesn't plan to vote Republican or stay home form the election.

How do you know that Welprin's gay marriage vote wasn't the cause of the Jewish voting pattern in this election?

116 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:33:16am

re: #115 jamesfirecat

Buck that doesn't answer my question all you're doing is presenting me with a hypothesis not any proof for it.

You and LVQ are an incredibly small sample size and you being Canadian don't even count for the election.

How do you know that Welprin's gay marriage vote wasn't the cause of the jewish flip flop?

Because shut up.
That's why!

117 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:33:33am

re: #115 jamesfirecat

Buck that doesn't answer my question all you're doing is presenting me with a hypothesis not any proof for it.

Proof of what?

(Sorry, not paying attention)

118 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:33:56am

re: #112 jaunte

Jerry Falwell, Jr., the school's chancellor, praised Perry's record in Texas and even told reporters that Perry's suggestions of secession were "gutsy," according to NBC.

Sedition is gutsy, eh? So now, we are supposed a vote for a Presidential candidate who has verbally advocated the possible dismemberment of the country he wants to lead??

Orwell is laughing at us. Black is white, freedom is slavery and we have always been at war with Eastasia.

119 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:34:15am

re: #87 TNChuckster

Nor did it help when he said the debt was 4 trillion, not 14 trillion.

Very true, Though it's amusing that no one picked up Perry saying that we were running a 15 trillion dollar deficit. LOL People make dumb errors of statement. Usually I don't care about off the cuff oopsies unless they happen so often that it makes me question that person's grasp of facts in general.

120 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:34:53am

re: #106 jamesfirecat

There seems to be far too much of this for my liking since if it turns out to be true, thank frankly those Jewish voters weren't worth having in the first place.

OK. Then you find a lot of voters aren't worth having.

The results of Prop 8 in California will show you who you think aren't worth having.

121 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:36:34am

re: #120 Buck

Gays?
Yeah, we get that the GOP don't like them.

122 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:36:41am

re: #110 jamesfirecat

Speaking of Obama's poll numbers...

BreakingNews Breaking News
Reuters/Ipsos poll: Obama approval rating bumped up to 47% in Sept from 45% in Aug after jobs speech

Now, if he can actually get it passed (lol) or easily show the GOP killing it, that number can only go up.

123 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:37:07am

re: #120 Buck

OK. Then you find a lot of voters aren't worth having.

The results of Prop 8 in California will show you who you think aren't worth having.

Well then it is what it is.

I'd rather loose election after election until the public was ready to support my ideals than compromise my belief that marriage should be an option open to any two non related consenting adults.

If they want to vote for me/my side for other reasons fine, but the Democratic party should make no effort to appeal to people because of those beliefs in any way shape or form.

124 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:37:48am

re: #115 jamesfirecat

How do you know that Welprin's gay marriage vote wasn't the cause of the jewish flip flop?

Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage. And Democrats have been winning there for a long time. Do you really think that Wiener was not pro same sex marriage? Do you think that the people who voted for him thought he might be against it?

125 TNChuckster  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:38:19am

re: #110 jamesfirecat

This far out, there's too many (R)s. IIRC, four years ago at this time, wasn't Thompson 1st or 2nd? Ask me again in June.

126 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:38:43am

re: #112 jaunte

Jerry Falwell, Jr., the school's chancellor, praised Perry's record in Texas and even told reporters that Perry's suggestions of secession were "gutsy"

I doubt Falwell thought it was simply "gutsy" when a certain Pastor Emeritus of Trinity United Church of Christ said "God damn America."

I wonder what the difference is?

127 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:38:58am

Many voters employ a very simple strategy. When they're happy, they vote for the incumbent. When they're not, they vote for the challenger.

If everybody voted that way, it would not be possible for a single party to drive things into the ditch and hold office. The strategy is simplistic, it lacks nuance. It will often give the wrong answer. But there are worse strategies. It's robust. You can't, as a candidate, flim-flam the electorate if it's voting that strategy.

128 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:39:56am

re: #124 Buck

Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage. And Democrats have been winning there for a long time. Do you really think that Wiener was not pro same sex marriage? Do you think that the people who voted for him thought he might be against it?

Lol, that's not true you fool.
Good grief.

129 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:40:42am

re: #126 Charleston Chew

I doubt Falwell thought it was simply "gutsy" when a certain Pastor Emeritus of Trinity United Church of Christ said "God damn America."

I wonder what the difference is?

I don't understand your post.

130 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:41:07am

re: #121 Varek Raith

Gays?
Yeah, we get that the GOP don't like them.

You think that prop 8 passed simply because of a vote by the GOP?

Democratic and Independant African Americans and Latinos took part as well.

-----------------------------
Before anyone calls me homophobic I am on record of supporting same sex marriage. It was James that brought that up. I am just saying it isn't just the GOP that is against it. Prop 8 results showed that a lot of Democrats are against it as well.

131 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:41:13am

re: #124 Buck

Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage. And Democrats have been winning there for a long time. Do you really think that Wiener was not pro same sex marriage? Do you think that the people who voted for him thought he might be against it?

So you're saying that so long as they're a democrat that the Jew doesn't have a problem with same sex marriage?

I'm trying really hard not to put words in your mouth so please correct me if I'm wrong....

132 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:41:16am

re: #124 Buck

Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage.

Especially Democrats in a very conservative district. After all, Democrats all vote exactly the same everywhere.
/

133 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:41:46am

re: #120 Buck

OK. Then you find a lot of voters aren't worth having.

The results of Prop 8 in California will show you who you think aren't worth having.

That is just so awesome, Bucky!

I think we ought to vote on all kinds of things! Let's vote on who you get to sleep with and what legal agreements you are allowed to enter into! I also vote that you will not be allowed to visit you "partner" in a hospital and will not be able to inherit joint property unless her parents agree.

Funny as fuck, right?
*spit*

134 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:42:48am

Afternoon Honcos.

135 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:43:14am

re: #131 jamesfirecat

So you're saying that so long as they're a democrat that the Jew doesn't have a problem with same sex marriage?

I'm trying really hard not to put words in your mouth so please correct me if I'm wrong...

NO that is not what I am saying. I am saying that if it were just a backlash against same sex marriage, then it would have been seen earlier than this vote.

136 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:43:19am

re: #125 TNChuckster

This far out, there's too many (R)s. IIRC, four years ago at this time, wasn't Thompson 1st or 2nd? Ask me again in June.

Poor Thompson. He was so popular until he actually entered the race.

137 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:43:20am

re: #105 Alouette

Avigdor Lieberman does not represent the entire Israeli administration. He is a member of the coalition because of Israel's f&cked up electoral system, and he is a raging fascist, but he represents a fringe element, not the majority of the coalition members.

He is the Foreign Minister. To most of the world, he is the voice of Israel. Somebody ought to fix that.

138 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:43:23am

re: #130 Buck

You think that prop 8 passed simply because of a vote by the GOP?

Democratic and Independant African Americans and Latinos took part as well.

---
Before anyone calls me homophobic I am on record of supporting same sex marriage. It was James that brought that up. I am just saying it isn't just the GOP that is against it. Prop 8 results showed that a lot of Democrats are against it as well.

I THOUGHT ALL DEMOCRATS WERE FOR GAY MARRIAGE?!?!?!
Remember, it's ready, then AIM, then fire.
You always leave out the aiming part.

139 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:43:28am

re: #130 Buck

You think that prop 8 passed simply because of a vote by the GOP?

Democratic and Independant African Americans and Latinos took part as well.

---
Before anyone calls me homophobic I am on record of supporting same sex marriage. It was James that brought that up. I am just saying it isn't just the GOP that is against it. Prop 8 results showed that a lot of Democrats are against it as well.

Doesn't this directly disprove the suggestion you were trying to make in 124 that Gay Marriage couldn't have turned the Jews in NY against Welprin, since it proves there are people in the Democratic party who would vote against gay rights?

140 sagehen  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:43:34am

re: #124 Buck

Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage. And Democrats have been winning there for a long time. Do you really think that Wiener was not pro same sex marriage? Do you think that the people who voted for him thought he might be against it?

Not ultra-religious Jews... some of the Hasidic rabbis put out a statement that Weprin's vote on that bill was a desecration.

The Orthodox vote Dem for economic issues, even though they're more in tune with the Republicans on gay and women's issues. It's the Reform who are super-liberal on social issues ("Reform Judaism is the Democratic Party's national platform, plus holidays.")

141 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:44:06am

re: #133 celticdragon

That is just so awesome, Bucky!

I think we ought to vote on all kinds of things! Let's vote on who you get to sleep with and what legal agreements you are allowed to enter into! I also vote that you will not be allowed to visit you "partner" in a hospital and will not be able to inherit joint property unless her parents agree.

Funny as fuck, right?
*spit*

It wasn't my idea to put that to a vote. I think that was a dumb idea.

142 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:44:54am

As a total aside. If the Republicans stall Obama's bill, they're going to be beaten over the head with their obstruction.

If they're smart they give Obama the entire bill as it is.

If they only give Obama half the bill, they give Obama an opening to say, if the Republicans had only given me what I asked for I would have been able to help fix this.

I don't think the Republicans are that smart. Or specifically, I think the Republican base will give a hue and cry of such proportion if the Republicans even make a noise of compromise that the Republicans will pull their hands back faster than a kid touching a hot stove.

143 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:45:56am

re: #135 Buck

NO that is not what I am saying. I am saying that if it were just a backlash against same sex marriage, then it would have been seen earlier than this vote.

Weprin help gay marriage get leaglized at the tail end of June, have their been any elections these people could vote in between then and this one?

144 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:46:14am

re: #89 bloodstar

re: #91 Charleston Chew

OK... sorry I got called away... But a rather quick inventory on Obama's stances on Israel and so called settlements brought up two quick articles:

This is from 2009

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Despite the administration’s efforts to make clear, public demands that Netanyahu freeze all settlement growth, however, the administration’s allies have sought to loosen that commitment. One key question is what the Israelis call “natural growth,” in which new buildings are constructed within existing settlements to accommodate, for instance, growing families.

Critics say it’s a loophole that’s been used for dramatic expansion, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton explicitly ruled out making an exception for natural growth last week.

Now that natural growth was an explicit part of the deal that was made with former President Clinton nearly a decade before. For Obama and Hilary to pretend that such language did not exist and was not previously was not clearly understood by Israel as part of the deal is a betrayal.

Loathe to do it, but since I am not interested in tracking down every source available this article from WSJ (whome I generally despise) none the less has a reasonable summary. Read the whole article but the following quote is a great example:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

• July 2009: Mr. Obama hosted American Jewish leaders at the White House, reportedly telling them that he sought to put "daylight" between America and Israel. "For eight years"—during the Bush administration—"there was no light between the United States and Israel, and nothing got accomplished," he declared.

Nothing? Prime Minister Ariel Sharon uprooted thousands of settlers from their homes in Gaza and the northern West Bank and deployed the Israeli army to forcibly relocate their fellow citizens. Mr. Sharon then resigned from the Likud Party to build a majority party based on a two-state consensus.

OR

• March 2010: During Vice President Joe Biden's visit to Israel, a Jerusalem municipal office announced plans for new construction in a part of Jerusalem. The president launched an unprecedented weeks-long offensive against Israel. Mr. Biden very publicly departed Israel.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton berated Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on a now-infamous 45-minute phone call, telling him that Israel had "harmed the bilateral relationship." (The State Department triumphantly shared details of the call with the press.) The Israeli ambassador was dressed-down at the State Department, Mr. Obama's Middle East envoy canceled his trip to Israel, and the U.S. joined the European condemnation of Israel.

Moments after Mr. Biden concluded his visit to the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority held a ceremony to honor Dalal Mughrabi, who led one of the deadliest Palestinian terror attacks in history: the so-called Coastal Road Massacre that killed 38, including 13 children and an American. The Obama administration was silent. But that same day, on ABC, Mr. Axelrod called Israel's planned construction of apartments in its own capital an "insult" and an "affront" to the United States. Press Secretary Robert Gibbs went on Fox News to accuse Mr. Netanyahu of "weakening trust" between the two countries.

It's a pretty good list actually.

145 sagehen  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:46:18am

re: #137 Decatur Deb

He is the Foreign Minister. To most of the world, he is the voice of Israel. Somebody ought to fix that.

And yet the Israelis know how vile he is, and how much he'd be hated in the U.S. It's astonishing to me that Netanyahu, even in desperation to make a coalition, would give that spot to a guy they can't even allow to travel to, or be interviewed by the media of, their most essential ally.

146 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:46:23am

re: #130 Buck

You think that prop 8 passed simply because of a vote by the GOP?

Democratic and Independant African Americans and Latinos took part as well.

---
Before anyone calls me homophobic I am on record of supporting same sex marriage. It was James that brought that up. I am just saying it isn't just the GOP that is against it. Prop 8 results showed that a lot of Democrats are against it as well.

How can you reconcile this post with your

"Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage"

comment?

147 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:46:51am

re: #124 Buck

Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage. And Democrats have been winning there for a long time. Do you really think that Wiener was not pro same sex marriage? Do you think that the people who voted for him thought he might be against it?

re: #130 Buck

You think that prop 8 passed simply because of a vote by the GOP?

Democratic and Independant African Americans and Latinos took part as well.

---
Before anyone calls me homophobic I am on record of supporting same sex marriage. It was James that brought that up. I am just saying it isn't just the GOP that is against it. Prop 8 results showed that a lot of Democrats are against it as well.

Which is it, Buck?
You want both to be true, yet they can't both be true.
Which is it?

148 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:48:09am

re: #126 Charleston Chew

OK, now I understand; sorry, my work is interfering with my reading.

149 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:48:25am

re: #135 Buck

NO that is not what I am saying. I am saying that if it were just a backlash against same sex marriage, then it would have been seen earlier than this vote.

There was no earlier vote in NY-9, genius.

The state of New York approved same sex marriage on July 24. This is the first special election since.

150 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:48:37am
151 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:49:08am

re: #121 Varek Raith

Gays?
Yeah, we get that the GOP don't like them.


Herman Cain Accused Of Hiding Gay Aide

152 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:49:37am

re: #115 jamesfirecat

Buck that doesn't answer my question all you're doing is presenting me with a hypothesis not any proof for it.

You and LVQ are an incredibly small sample size and you being Canadian don't even count for the election, and I'm willing to bet that for all he bitches about Obama LVQ doesn't plan to vote Republican or stay home form the election.

How do you know that Welprin's gay marriage vote wasn't the cause of the Jewish voting pattern in this election?

First of all, please don't ever, ever lump me in with Buck. As to the sample size, you are burying your head in the sand though as to whether or not there is growing Jewish discontent with Obama. The majority of the community is still overwhelmingly Dem, but to drop anything below even 90% is a massive loss for the Dems in the Jewish community.

Second of all, I would vote for my dog Max, a pile of my dog Max's turds, Mussolini and Charles MAnson for president, in that order, before I would vote for any of the current GOP crop.

153 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:50:05am
How can you reconcile this post with your

"Because any Democrat would have voted for same sex marriage"

comment?

The Democrat I was referring to was not the voter Democrat, the representative Democrat.

Let me rephrase:

Because either Democrat, Wiener or Weprin would have voted for same sex marriage.

154 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:50:38am

re: #150 Varek Raith

Image: z130934153.png

STAY ON TARGET!

155 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:50:39am

re: #153 Buck

Nice try.

156 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:52:19am

re: #155 Varek Raith

Nice try.

That is what I meant. I was saying that this issue didn't come up earlier with any other Democrat (representative) even though voters would have known that any Democrat (running for office in NY) would have supported same sex marriage.

157 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:52:25am

re: #152 LudwigVanQuixote

First of all, please don't ever, ever lump me in with Buck. As to the sample size, you are burying your head in the sand though as to whether or not there is growing Jewish discontent with Obama. The majority of the community is still overwhelmingly Dem, but to drop anything below even 90% is a massive loss for the Dems in the Jewish community.

Second of all, I would vote for my dog Max, a pile of my dog Max's turds, Mussolini and Charles MAnson for president, in that order, before I would vote for any of the current GOP crop.

I was only "lumping you in" with Buck because he brought you up and I wanted to point out that you weren't a valid point of data for his "Jews are turning against Obama" theory because you very clearly aren't whatever problems you have with the guy.

Sorry if I offended you in any way.

158 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:53:00am

re: #91 Charleston Chew

I think you are utterly ignoring the context of the events... please read the links I gave you.

159 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:54:05am

re: #144 LudwigVanQuixote

Here's another list:

Barack Obama’s top ten insults against Israel

1. Obama’s humiliation of Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House

2. Engaging Iran when Tehran threatens a nuclear Holocaust against Israel

3. Drawing a parallel between Jewish suffering in the Holocaust with the current plight of the Palestinians

4. Obama’s attack on Israeli “occupation” in his speech to the United Nations

5. Obama’s accusation that Israel is the cause of instability in the Middle East

6. The Obama administration’s establishment of diplomatic relations with Syria

7. Hillary Clinton’s 43-minute phone call berating Netanyahu

8. David Axelrod’s attack on Israeli settlements on "Meet the Press"

9. Hillary Clinton’s call on Israel to show "respect"

10. Robert Gibbs’ disparaging remarks about Israel

160 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:54:07am

re: #152 LudwigVanQuixote

Second of all, I would vote for my dog Max, a pile of my dog Max's turds, Mussolini and Charles MAnson for president, in that order, before I would vote for any of the current GOP crop.

Funny.

161 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:55:07am

re: #156 Buck

That is what I meant. I was saying that this issue didn't come up earlier with any other Democrat (representative) even though voters would have known that any Democrat (running for office in NY) would have supported same sex marriage.

You'd be surprised how many people do things in office that they didn't run on doing. (Oh Hi Scott Walker!)

162 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:56:44am

re: #127 lostlakehiker

Many voters employ a very simple strategy. When they're happy, they vote for the incumbent. When they're not, they vote for the challenger.

If everybody voted that way, it would not be possible for a single party to drive things into the ditch and hold office. The strategy is simplistic, it lacks nuance. It will often give the wrong answer. But there are worse strategies. It's robust. You can't, as a candidate, flim-flam the electorate if it's voting that strategy.

Sure you can.

If you're the incumbent and voters aren't happy you run as the anti-government "outsider" and rail against those inside-the-beltway elites, those "bozos in Washington". Even though you're technically one of them. And you win reelection. Does that seem irrational? It is and it works.

And if you're the challenger and everyone's happy all you have to do is make them unhappy and that's easy. Just say any or all of these scary words:

Gays, commies, vaccines, death panels, Muslim, Arabs, Jews, Blacks, half-black, Hispanics, Immigrants, Guns, Side Door Snubs, the Soviet Union, terrorists, terrorist fist bump, bowing, vegatable gardens, expensive haircuts, vacations, jet planes, prostitutes, special interests, healthcare, taxes, bridges, Hollywood, Hip Hop, barbecue, Common, paper clip, .... oh, hell, any noun can be scary when you want to live in fear, I guess.

163 TNChuckster  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:56:49am

re: #158 LudwigVanQuixote

See his comment, #95

164 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:57:58am

re: #152 LudwigVanQuixote

Second of all, I would vote for my dog Max, a pile of my dog Max's turds, Mussolini and Charles MAnson for president, in that order, before I would vote for any of the current GOP crop.

Mussolini is both dead and foreign born while both Max and his turds are presumably under 35 years of age. Manson is therefore the only one eligible, assuming he can produce a long form birth certificate.

165 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:59:48am

re: #153 Buck

Weiner would likely have voted for the gay marriage bill, but as an incumbent in the House he wouldn't have had a special election if he had managed to keep his zipper up, the webcam off, and his junk in his pants (or trunk or whatever). He was a known commodity and had incumbency to work with - and his district was favorable to his policy choices.

Weprin, OTOH, had no luxuries to rely on in trying to win the vacated seat other than his name and an expectation that the district was traditionally a D seat by a 2-1 margin.

In 2010, Weiner beat Turner by a handy margin, and in 2008 Weiner outperformed Obama in the district.

This may have been a referendum on Obama's policies, but local politics played a role as well. The gay marriage thing certainly stoked the fires of the GOPers in the district particularly among the Orthodox Jewish community, and it possibly didn't help that Cuomo and state Dem leaders refused to hold a primary, instead anointing Weprin as the candidate.

Whatever the outcome of this election, the current geographic NY-09 will cease to exist after this year. It will be a new redrawn NY-09 that will be involved, and I doubt it will be one that Turner (or Weprin) could win.

166 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:00:21pm

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan

Here's another list:

Barack Obama’s top ten insults against Israel

more like Top Ten Unsuccessful Attempts To Twist The Obama Administration's Actions Into Insults Against Israel

167 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:00:41pm

re: #161 jamesfirecat

You'd e surprised how many people do things in office that they didn't run on doing. (Hi Scott Walker!)

Well it is your opinion about what Scott Walker ran on.

However do you really think that voters were not clear about how Wiener would have voted on same sex marriage?

168 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:01:29pm

re: #167 Buck

Well it is your opinion about what Scott Walker ran on.

However do you really think that voters were not clear about how Wiener would have voted on same sex marriage?

Show me where Walker said he'd cut collective bargaining rights for unions.

169 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:01:42pm

re: #167 Buck

Well it is your opinion about what Scott Walker ran on.

However do you really think that voters were not clear about how Wiener would have voted on same sex marriage?

Its not just my opinion Buck it's a little thing called "Fact"

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

170 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:01:45pm

re: #95 Charleston Chew

WSJ editorial is comprised of evil lying scumbags. That's not my opinion. That's fact.

I see someone else posted a link on that article...

You are correct that in general, the WSJ, since the Murdoch takeover in particular, has a great deal of evil lying scumbags. However, each incident that is on that list is easily verifiable from other sources. This happened. It all happened recently enough that I remember it clearly from the time. Where were you?

171 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:01:59pm

re: #161 jamesfirecat

You'd be surprised how many people do things in office that they didn't run on doing. (Oh Hi Scott Walker!)

Before election: "I will sit down and hammer out a decent deal with the unions!"

After election: "Frak the unions!"

I can't understand why anybody would be so surprised.

172 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:04:55pm

re: #163 TNChuckster

See his comment, #95

What are you, a fifth grader?


re: #167 Buck

Well it is your opinion about what Scott Walker ran on.

However do you really think that voters were not clear about how Wiener would have voted on same sex marriage?

It doesnt matter Buck. Yes the dems lost distrcit 9, but if you look at the votes they won in Queens and got the snot beat out of them in Brooklyn. It was a low turn out, special election for a disappearing congressional district.
Dont try to make so much out of it.

173 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:06:43pm

re: #169 jamesfirecat

Its not just my opinion Buck it's a little thing called "Fact"

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

"But for Walker to be right, he has to be correct on the entirety of the plan. "

Only some people at polifact are allowed to be half-true...
Walker said he would fix the budget, and he did. He didn't have to outline every detail.

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:06:46pm

Hey all,

my iPhone is dead. It was working fine this am. I put in it my purse, took it out a few hours later and it is dead. I plugged it in and nothing. I took out the sim card and put it back and nothing.

I feel lost, afraid and all alone.

175 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:07:33pm

re: #174 ggt

I feel lost, afraid and all alone.

Time to vote Republican!

///

176 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:07:46pm

re: #171 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

After election: "Frak the unions!"

Your opinion.

177 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:08:05pm

re: #175 wrenchwench

Time to vote Republican!

///

You are no help.

178 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:08:15pm

re: #176 Buck

Your opinion.

Fact

179 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:08:24pm

re: #173 Buck

"But for Walker to be right, he has to be correct on the entirety of the plan. "

Only some people at polifact are allowed to be half-true...
Walker said he would fix the budget, and he did. He didn't have to outline every detail.

That would be like me saying I'd solve world hunger, and then implement a soylent green system. I did solve world hunger, why so surprised???
;)

180 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:08:49pm

re: #174 ggt

Hey all,

my iPhone is dead. It was working fine this am. I put in it my purse, took it out a few hours later and it is dead. I plugged it in and nothing. I took out the sim card and put it back and nothing.

I feel lost, afraid and all alone.

"This is only a test. If this had been a real Zombie Apocalypse, your iPhone would have melted."

181 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:08:59pm

This CNN analysis mirrors my own.

Democrats had every advantage they could have asked for. They outnumber Republicans 3-to-1 in a district Dems have held since 1923. They vastly outspent Turner and the GOP, and even called in big guns like ex-President Bill Clinton and Gov. Andrew Cuomo to campaign for the losing Democrat, state Rep. David Weprin.

But they still lost.

It seems clear that voters, including a significant number of Democrats, are angry at Obama's policies -- so dissatisfied that they are willing to vote for newcomers, like Turner, who have never held political office. That was the driving dynamic of the 2010 elections, when the GOP gained 63 seats and control of the House of Representatives.

But the larger lesson to be drawn from the Turner victory is a basic one that the Democratic establishment appears to have forgotten or ignored: All politics is local. That well-known observation by former Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill has a New York City corollary: In the often-rowdy ethnic stew of America's most diverse city, all politics is tribal. The Democrats goofed on that, too.

As moderator of the only televised debate between Turner and Weprin, I was surprised at how little the candidates wanted to discuss local issues. The district includes a long stretch of oceanfront and portions of a national park area that had just been devastated by Hurricane Irene. It's exactly the kind of issue you'd expect a would-be congressman to pounce on, with pledges to land federal assistance for the park's cleanup, repair of a devastated boardwalk, and so on.

Neither man talked about it. Instead, they concentrated on debating Obama's budget policies and American policy toward Israel. That gave Turner an enormous advantage.

On the economy, bashing Obama put Turner squarely on the side of voters, 76% of whom, according to one national poll, think our country is on the wrong track, especially on economic matters. It also spotlighted an embarrassing gaffe by Weprin, a former banking regulator who boasted of his economic credentials but told an editorial board he believed America's debt is $4 trillion (the actual size is $14 trillion).

The Daily News had run a questionaire about Turner and Weprin, and neither were particularly good at answering basic questions about the district they were hoping to represent. And that neither was particularly willing to focus on local issues is astounding considering how the area got battered during Irene. So, what did voters do? They looked to the hot-button issues and which candidate appeared to be more enthusiastic. That was Turner, not Weprin.

182 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:09:03pm

re: #174 ggt

Hey all,

my iPhone is dead. It was working fine this am. I put in it my purse, took it out a few hours later and it is dead. I plugged it in and nothing. I took out the sim card and put it back and nothing.

I feel lost, afraid and all alone.

It is clearly a matter of your faith. Everyone knows that iPhones and all Apple products are easy to use and never fail. You will need to look into yourself to find the failure of your faith.

183 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:09:28pm

re: #164 Shiplord Kirel

Charlie Manson campaign slogan:

184 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:09:29pm

re: #177 ggt

You are no help.

I know. I don't even know what a sim card is. I was going to suggest taking the battery out and putting it back in, but for all I know, that's what you did.

185 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:09:32pm

re: #182 Buck

It is clearly a matter of your faith. Everyone knows that iPhones and all Apple products are easy to use and never fail. You will need to look into yourself to find the failure of your faith.

Lol.
So true.

186 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:09:33pm

Hey, something special!

ShitMyScnrSays Felicia Heaton
On the scanner just now: "The suspect is wearing a top hat and a fake beard." #HonestAbe

187 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:09:46pm

re: #173 Buck

"But for Walker to be right, he has to be correct on the entirety of the plan. "

Only some people at polifact are allowed to be half-true...
Walker said he would fix the budget, and he did. He didn't have to outline every detail.

Buck, have you ever been wrong on LGF?

188 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:10:15pm

re: #184 wrenchwench

I know. I don't even know what a sim card is. I was going to suggest taking the battery out and putting it back in, but for all I know, that's what you did.

iPhones don't have user removable batteries.

189 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:11:36pm

re: #166 engineer dog

more like Top Ten Unsuccessful Attempts To Twist The Obama Administration's Actions Into Insults Against Israel

And there of course we have the problem.

I have written many times that Obama is not an enemy of Israel per se and that his record of duplicity with Israel, in practice, has turned out to be no more or less bad than most other presidents. When Israel is useful, they are loved and when presidents have other plans, agreements with Israel are forgotten. This is not unique to Obama. Such a critique applies strongly to Reagan, Bush Sr. and Carter and Clinton as well. Even W. who is held up as some sort of saint by the right on issues of Israel was always more interested in Arab oil.

On the one hand, Obama is no friend of Israel and has been at great pains to paint himself as something other than that, something above Israel that he will bring around to some right form of thinking, and he has reneged on deals made before him. At the time, I chalked a lot of it up to a very naive view of how the Mid East works. Obama's more recent stances - as I have also written, have been much more realistic in general.

That said, he still is no giant friend of Israel, and there is a sizable portion of the Jewish community who realizes this.

However, as is usually the case, and something that started with Saint W. of the ignorant, by appearing to support Israel, so much more than he actually did, and in the context of wing nut lunacy, it is nearly impossible to actually defend Israel or critique a president for treating her badly, because one automatically gets lumped in with morons and lunatics. The lies that those morons and lunatics spew make the whole enterprise look questionable.

In the mean time, in the real world, rockets are falling on people I know and love and the peace loving Palis have announced that if they get a new State it will be a judenrein.

190 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:11:36pm

re: #187 jamesfirecat

Buck, have you ever been wrong on LGF?

Everyday... when I come back after swearing that I never will again...

At the end of that day I remind myself of how I should not have gone back, and admit that I was wrong to go back.

191 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:11:45pm

re: #174 ggt

Hey all,

my iPhone is dead. It was working fine this am. I put in it my purse, took it out a few hours later and it is dead. I plugged it in and nothing. I took out the sim card and put it back and nothing.

I feel lost, afraid and all alone.

That's frustrating. Sometimes what I do when it says "Sim Card not installed" is turn Airplane mode on and quickly turn it off. I am switching my iPhone of three years for a Droid after I get my degree in the winter. I recommend the iPhone but it's got its annoyances.

192 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:11:47pm

re: #188 Buck

iPhones don't have user removable batteries.

Hey! A useful bit of info! Thanks!

/shock

193 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:12:32pm

re: #164 Shiplord Kirel

Mussolini is both dead and foreign born while both Max and his turds are presumably under 35 years of age. Manson is therefore the only one eligible, assuming he can produce a long form birth certificate.

LOL that is a genius response... my hat is off to you!

194 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:13:27pm

re: #183 negativ

Charlie Manson campaign slogan:

[Video]

Is that actual unedited video? I never would have guessed Manson made it to YouTube.

195 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:14:10pm

re: #189 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm don't think I agree with everything you said, but you did a good job of saying it. :)

196 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:14:17pm

re: #177 ggt

Here's a forum of people discussing sudden iPhone blankness:
[Link: forums.macrumors.com...]

197 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:14:22pm

re: #190 Buck

I wouldn't be such a jerk if you didn't constantly bring up debunked right wing talking points. All the while ignoring anything that contradict them.
;)

198 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:14:38pm

re: #174 ggt

Hey all,

my iPhone is dead. It was working fine this am. I put in it my purse, took it out a few hours later and it is dead. I plugged it in and nothing. I took out the sim card and put it back and nothing.

I feel lost, afraid and all alone.

There are places that repair iPhones (and replace their supposedly irreplaceable batteries, as well). Suggest you find one in your area and check them out, before you go buy a new phone. Just google "iPhone repair" and your city/state, and you should get some suggestions.

199 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:15:20pm

re: #174 ggt

Hey all,

my iPhone is dead. It was working fine this am. I put in it my purse, took it out a few hours later and it is dead. I plugged it in and nothing. I took out the sim card and put it back and nothing.

I feel lost, afraid and all alone.

OK, a serious response:

Plug it into the computer that you have it registered with iTunes. Wait 30 minutes and start up iTunes. iTunes might detect it, and you might have to do a factory reset.

200 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:15:22pm

re: #183 negativ

Charlie Manson campaign slogan:

[Video]

That never, ever gets old.

201 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:15:25pm

re: #111 Buck

Obama's policies on Israel are what is being discussed. Loud and clear.

The idea that the Obama administration is doing anything different in regards to Israel than any other US administration is a ludicrous, easily disprovable lie. The kind of lie only a dedicated right winger pretends to believe.

202 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:16:05pm

re: #196 jaunte

Here's a forum of people discussing sudden iPhone blankness:
[Link: forums.macrumors.com...]

Ah. Good discussion! I reboot my iPhone once a week. They don't tell you this in the store, but it's a good idea, generally, to reboot once a week. Hold the bottom button and the top button 'til the apple comes onto the screen.

203 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:16:58pm

re: #201 Charles

The idea that the Obama administration is doing anything different in regards to Israel than any other US administration is a ludicrous, easily disprovable lie. The kind of lie only a dedicated right winger believes.

and yet I outline the differences clearly here.

You might think that these differences are minor, or that they are not significant. However others will disagree with you.

204 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:17:01pm

re: #190 Buck

Everyday... when I come back after swearing that I never will again...

At the end of that day I remind myself of how I should not have gone back, and admit that I was wrong to go back.

You need to do penance...1 year of not posting ought to do.
/

205 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:17:32pm

re: #204 blueraven

You need to do penance...1 year of not posting ought to do.
/

I try.... I try...

I am weak. Don't judge me!

206 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:18:00pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

That's frustrating. Sometimes what I do when it says "Sim Card not installed" is turn Airplane mode on and quickly turn it off. I am switching my iPhone of three years for a Droid after I get my degree in the winter. I recommend the iPhone but it's got its annoyances.

Never happened before. EVER

207 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:18:24pm

re: #144 LudwigVanQuixote

I guess I didn't consider the dispute over settlement growth as throwing the nation as a whole "under the bus". Just a disagreement.

The administration disagreed with the release of the Lockerbie bomber by the Scottish Justice Minister. This decision caused considerable anger within the US. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton described it as "absolutely wrong", while President Obama described it as a "mistake". A letter from Robert Mueller, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, criticized the Minister for failing to consult "partners in the investigation and prosecution of those responsible for the Lockerbie tragedy". [Link: www.publications.parliament.uk...]

Would you say the President threw the UK under the bus? Or can nations have disagreements over policy and still be allies?

As for the WSJ link, I appreciate the effort and it is a good crib sheet of grievances that some people have against the President, but unfortunately I don't believe a word in that piece-of-shit publication, so I'll have to research these bullet points further with other sources.

208 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:18:40pm

re: #201 Charles

The idea that the Obama administration is doing anything different in regards to Israel than any other US administration is a ludicrous, easily disprovable lie. The kind of lie only a dedicated right winger believes.

I'd say Obama is doing one thing different. He's made it clear that his first priority is America, and that the tail will not wag the dog. Imagine that, a President who is looking out for America. American interests are not in lock step with another country, no matter how close we might be to that country. But some people can't accept that I guess.

209 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:20:03pm

re: #205 Buck

I try... I try...

210 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:20:03pm

re: #183 negativ

Charlie Manson campaign slogan:

[Video]

Vote the killer team! Manson/Perry '12!

211 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:20:47pm

re: #199 Buck

OK, a serious response:

Plug it into the computer that you have it registered with iTunes. Wait 30 minutes and start up iTunes. iTunes might detect it, and you might have to do a factory reset.

And to clarify a bit: A factory reset isn't a big deal. It will restore your phone to wherever it was the last time you synced with iTunes. You don't have to go back and put everything back into it; whatever the last sync captured, will be restored to your phone.

212 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:21:04pm

re: #210 Shiplord Kirel

Vote the killer team! Manson/Perry '12!

Will Linda Kassabian be First Bitch?

213 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:21:12pm

re: #207 Charleston Chew

The administration disagreed with the release of the Lockerbie bomber by the Scottish Justice Minister. This decision caused considerable anger within the US. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton described it as "absolutely wrong", while President Obama described it as a "mistake". A letter from Robert Mueller, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, criticized the Minister for failing to consult "partners in the investigation and prosecution of those responsible for the Lockerbie tragedy". [Link: www.publications.parliament.uk...]

Would you say the President threw the UK under the bus?

The difference is that the Scottish Justice Minister actually did release of the Lockerbie bomber.

What do you think Israel did that was a mistake?

214 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:21:30pm

re: #212 Decatur Deb

Will Linda Kassabian be First Bitch?

Go to your room.
/

215 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:21:38pm

re: #212 Decatur Deb

Will Linda Kassabian be First Bitch?

Squeaky gets my vote!
//

216 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:21:43pm

re: #211 reine.de.tout

And to clarify a bit: A factory reset isn't a big deal. It will restore your phone to wherever it was the last time you synced with iTunes. You don't have to go back and put everything back into it; whatever the last sync captured, will be restored to your phone.

Praying to the Steve will help as well.

217 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:21:51pm

re: #207 Charleston Chew

There is a difference between disagreeing and taking back a deal that was already paid for by one of the parties. There is a difference between disagreeing and emboldening the very violent and constantly attacking enemies of your ally. There is a difference between disagreeing and trying to have the prime minister ousted because he does not buy your bullshit.

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:22:57pm

Thanks everyone. I have it plugged into the computer and will wait to let it charge a while. It may be that it got turned-on somehow in my purse and drained.

Then I'll see if iTunes comes up, if not, I'll try a hard boot.

If none of that works, I'll cry cause I can't get to the At&T store until Friday.

219 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:23:48pm

re: #216 Buck

Praying to the Steve will help as well.

LOL.
Always.

Those of us who pray should probably be praying FOR him at this point; he's very ill, probably dying.

220 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:23:56pm

Had to send my kid a message thru facebook. Just hope he accesses it thru his phone after school so he knows what time I am picking him up.

221 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:24:48pm

re: #217 LudwigVanQuixote

There is a difference between disagreeing and taking back a deal that was already paid for by one of the parties. There is a difference between disagreeing and emboldening the very violent and constantly attacking enemies of your ally. There is a difference between disagreeing and trying to have the prime minister ousted because he does not buy your bullshit.

??

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:25:06pm

re: #179 Varek Raith

That would be like me saying I'd solve world hunger, and then implement a soylent green system. I did solve world hunger, why so surprised???
;)

That only works for Raiths. What about the rest of us?

223 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:25:17pm

re: #170 LudwigVanQuixote

I see someone else posted a link on that article...

You are correct that in general, the WSJ, since the Murdoch takeover in particular, has a great deal of evil lying scumbags. However, each incident that is on that list is easily verifiable from other sources. This happened. It all happened recently enough that I remember it clearly from the time. Where were you?

re: #181 lawhawk

This CNN analysis mirrors my own.

The Daily News had run a questionaire about Turner and Weprin, and neither were particularly good at answering basic questions about the district they were hoping to represent. And that neither was particularly willing to focus on local issues is astounding considering how the area got battered during Irene. So, what did voters do? They looked to the hot-button issues and which candidate appeared to be more enthusiastic. That was Turner, not Weprin.

Can this race be compared to Scott Brown's win in MA?

224 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:25:47pm

re: #208 bloodstar

Israel is a tiny country, and has few friends/allies. It hangs on the words spoken by the US and its Presidents. Misrepresenting those words has serious consequences and much angst.

Words, even if misrepresented, have consequences and the Israeli public knows that even if the President had no change in policy, the Palestinians will latch on to the misrepresented position to use to their advantage. That's the kind of consequences that Israelis are worried about, especially as the Palestinians are agitating for statehood at the UN in the upcoming session.

Case in point - UN SCR 242 and the authority of the word "the" re: territorial withdrawals by Israel.

225 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:26:17pm

Have fun everyone, Time to go back to writing my book!

226 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:26:21pm

re: #159 NJDhockeyfan


I looked at your list of ten. actually, I just got through the first three. Let's do so together:

1. Obama’s humiliation of Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House

The conclusions are those of the Telegraph's beat writer and columnist. Between them and the Israeli ambassador (as quoted above), I go with the Israeli ambassador. By the intellectual standards of this debate, to do otherwise is to spit in Israel's face.

2. Engaging Iran when Tehran threatens a nuclear Holocaust against Israel

Because Israel gets a veto over American foreign policy? When did that happen? I thought we were a sovereign country, entitled to make our own policy judgments. Talking to Iran a little, while still engaging and enforcing a sanctions regime, seems pretty mild stuff.

3. Drawing a parallel between Jewish suffering in the Holocaust with the current plight of the Palestinians

Here's the particular Obama quote that is so insulting:

“On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations – large and small – that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.”

Is there anything in that quote that is untrue?

Or is it that if you mention the Holocaust, any other mention of anyone else's suffering is:

1> an automatic statement of equivalence, and
2> an insult to Israel?

Who makes up these rules?

As far as I am concerned, the author was oh-for-three. I stopped reading after that.

227 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:26:35pm

re: #183 negativ

Charlie Manson campaign slogan:

[Video]

Would make a hell of a bumper sticker.

228 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:26:43pm

re: #219 reine.de.tout

LOL.
Always.

Those of us who pray should probably be praying FOR him at this point; he's very ill, probably dying.

I worked for the man....

Do you know the difference between God and Steve Jobs?

Steve Jobs only thinks he is God.

(I am not going to dwell on his illness. He is still an all powerful entity in our midst, until proven otherwise)

229 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:27:50pm

re: #218 ggt

Thanks everyone. I have it plugged into the computer and will wait to let it charge a while. It may be that it got turned-on somehow in my purse and drained.

Then I'll see if iTunes comes up, if not, I'll try a hard boot.

If none of that works, I'll cry cause I can't get to the At&T store until Friday.

If it's more than a year old it could be a dead battery. I had to replace the battery in an iPhone 3G recently.

230 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:29:25pm

re: #229 Charles

If it's more than a year old it could be a dead battery. I had to replace the battery in an iPhone 3G recently.

Is that hard to do? My wife's is losing battery life.

231 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:30:37pm

re: #223 Charleston Chew

re: #181 lawhawk

Can this race be compared to Scott Brown's win in MA?

I made that comparision earlier. Official with a fairly known name in a strong Democratic area thinks they have a gimme and will win by party label alone. I think that's what happened in NY-9 and Massachusetts though in Mass, I think Brown ran a savvy campaign too. I don't know a lot about how Bob Turner ran his to say that one way or the other.

232 otoc  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:31:21pm
“I am a registered Democrat, I have always been a registered Democrat, I come from a family of Democrats — and I hate to say this, I voted Republican,” said Linda Goldberg, 61, after casting her ballot in Queens. “I need to send a message to the president that he’s not doing a very good job. Our economy is horrible. People are scared.”

Sheeple come in many colors, sizes, sexes, beliefs, and parties.

Can't wait to see who Obama will be debating.

233 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:31:59pm

Ok, so I have this really old samsung that we use has the house phone. How do I unlock it so I can make a call from it?

I never use it.

234 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:32:14pm

re: #232 otoc

Sheeple come in many colors, sizes, sexes, beliefs, and parties.

Can't wait to see who Obama will be debating.

At this rate, my bet is on nobody, because Perry will find every excuse he can to avoid debates. They tend not to be his strong suit.

235 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:32:48pm

re: #224 lawhawk

Israel is a tiny country, and has few friends/allies. It hangs on the words spoken by the US and its Presidents. Misrepresenting those words has serious consequences and much angst.

Words, even if misrepresented, have consequences and the Israeli public knows that even if the President had no change in policy, the Palestinians will latch on to the misrepresented position to use to their advantage. That's the kind of consequences that Israelis are worried about, especially as the Palestinians are agitating for statehood at the UN in the upcoming session.

Case in point - UN SCR 242 and the authority of the word "the" re: territorial withdrawals by Israel.

It's an interesting and valid point. But I'd point out that a country that dependent for survival on another country is in an inherently unstable situation. Generally countries like that don't last terribly long.

I'm not saying that because I want Israel to be destroyed, I just don't see the situation as tenable in the long term.

236 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:32:59pm

NASA plans most powerful rocket ever

20% more thrust and 40 feet taller than the Saturn V.
VROOOMMMM!!!

237 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:33:11pm

re: #226 garhighway

3. Drawing a parallel between Jewish suffering in the Holocaust with the current plight of the Palestinians

I heard this recently, and it drove it home for me:

The victims and families of 9/11 suffered a great loss from terrorists who were evil, on the other hand the families of the 19 hijackers and Osama bin Laden's wives and children also suffered a loss....

That is what “On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. " sounds like to me.

The Palestinian people are suffering by the same hand that is making the Israeli people suffer.

238 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:33:21pm

re: #231 HappyWarrior

Turner won by committing fewer errors, and having Ed Koch and Rudy Guiliani campaign for him; both are seen quite favorably among those in the District - Koch among the Jewish community and Rudy among the blue collar, which includes the FDNY/NYPD that live in places like Breezy Pt, Howard Beach and Rockaways.

Turner's supporters appear to have focused on the constituents more than Weprin did - Weprin got Cuomo and Clinton, but neither focused on key constituencies for the election in the same way.

239 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:33:59pm

re: #230 garhighway

Is that hard to do? My wife's is losing battery life.

Well, it's possible to do it yourself, if you have some experience in working with small electrical parts. There are YouTube videos showing how.

But there are some really tiny, really delicate connectors that are easy to break, and if you do, you're screwed.

The Apple Store charges close to $100 to do the job last time I checked -- I Googled 'iPhone battery repair' in my area and found a guy who did it for $40 in about 10 minutes while I waited.

240 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:34:07pm

It's been about 28 minutes, I'm going to start iTunes.

241 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:34:47pm

re: #229 Charles

If it's more than a year old it could be a dead battery. I had to replace the battery in an iPhone 3G recently.

I am getting into the habit of buying an extra battery for any device like a cell phone or laptop at the time of original purchase. Seems to double the quality lifetime of the devices. Short battery life is frustrating. You should see my battery collection-Cell phones, one for the laptop and of course my two Canon DSLR cameras take different battery models. And aftermarket batteries are (usually) teh suck. Canon brand batteries are expensive but outperform all the pretenders.

242 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:34:49pm

re: #229 Charles

If it's more than a year old it could be a dead battery. I had to replace the battery in an iPhone 3G recently.

How much does that cost to do?

(planning ahead)

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:34:57pm

NOthing yet. Should i do the hard boot with it plugged into the computer or not?

244 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:35:01pm

re: #236 Varek Raith

Yeah, and there's apparently a deal to get it done among the GOP and Democrats in the Senate. $35 billion to be larded out among the districts doesn't hurt (oh wait, did I say that out loud).

245 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:35:29pm

re: #243 ggt

Yes, you can do a hard restart of the iPhone..

246 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:35:33pm

re: #241 Rightwingconspirator

I am getting into the habit of buying an extra battery for any device like a cell phone or laptop at the time of original purchase. Seems to double the quality lifetime of the devices. Short battery life is frustrating. You should see my battery collection-Cell phones, one for the laptop and of course my two Canon DSLR cameras take different battery models. And aftermarket batteries are (usually) teh suck. Canon brand batteries are expensive but outperform all the pretenders.

Can't really do that with Apple products.

247 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:36:03pm

re: #224 lawhawk

Israel is a tiny country, and has few friends/allies. It hangs on the words spoken by the US and its Presidents. Misrepresenting those words has serious consequences and much angst.

Words, even if misrepresented, have consequences and the Israeli public knows that even if the President had no change in policy, the Palestinians will latch on to the misrepresented position to use to their advantage. That's the kind of consequences that Israelis are worried about, especially as the Palestinians are agitating for statehood at the UN in the upcoming session.

Case in point - UN SCR 242 and the authority of the word "the" re: territorial withdrawals by Israel.

Restated for truth. That was an excellent observation.

248 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:36:19pm

re: #236 Varek Raith

NASA plans most powerful rocket ever

20% more thrust and 40 feet taller than the Saturn V.
VROOOMMM!!!

It's cool, but wake me up when they resurrect the NERVA. Or Project Orion.

249 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:36:24pm

re: #189 LudwigVanQuixote

When Israel is useful, they are loved and when presidents have other plans, agreements with Israel are forgotten. This is not unique to Obama. Such a critique applies strongly to Reagan, Bush Sr. and Carter and Clinton as well. Even W. who is held up as some sort of saint by the right on issues of Israel was always more interested in Arab oil.

My perception was that the President's support for Israel is about the same as previous administrations, including Bush. My concern is that people who think that this administration is a radical anti-Isreal departure from previous US policy also think either consciously or unconsciously that the President is an Arab or Secret Muslim because he has a "funny" name and, you know, looks like one.

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:36:47pm

Yeah, little apple appeared.

251 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:37:02pm

re: #223 Charleston Chew

Oops. Accidental double reply.

252 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:37:18pm

re: #248 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's cool, but wake me up when they resurrect the NERVA. Or Project Orion.

Ah, nothing like using a nuclear blast to propel your ship.
:)

253 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:37:25pm

re: #251 Charleston Chew

Oops. Accidental double reply.

It happens . . .

254 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:37:28pm

re: #248 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's cool, but wake me up when they resurrect the NERVA. Or Project Orion.

The Dawn spacecraft that just made it to an asteroid is their grandchild.

255 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:37:46pm

re: #246 ggt

Can't really do that with Apple products.

Shame on them. That's ridiculous as it amounts to built in obsolescence.

256 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:38:00pm

re: #249 Charleston Chew

Or they're just told to think that because they listen to talking points that walk as men and sit behind Golden Microphones or video cameras

257 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:38:49pm

re: #239 Charles

Well, it's possible to do it yourself, if you have some experience in working with small electrical parts. There are YouTube videos showing how.

But there are some really tiny, really delicate connectors that are easy to break, and if you do, you're screwed.

The Apple Store charges close to $100 to do the job last time I checked -- I Googled 'iPhone battery repair' in my area and found a guy who did it for $40 in about 10 minutes while I waited.

Mine is about 4 years old and I have the option to get a new phone on my AT&T plan. Is it worth getting a new battery? Wouldn't I be better off just getting an updated phone?

258 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:38:51pm

re: #236 Varek Raith

NASA plans most powerful rocket ever

20% more thrust and 40 feet taller than the Saturn V.
VROOOMMM!!!

Old NASA adage, no bucks, no Buck Rogers.

This might actually happen - assuming that the GOP does not take over in 2012 since we do not have the heavy lift capacity we once did with the aging and ever more unreliable shuttle retired.

Of course...

They have also been talking about going to Mars for thirty years or so.

259 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:38:55pm

re: #249 Charleston Chew

My perception was that the President's support for Israel is about the same as previous administrations, including Bush. My concern is that people who think that this administration is a radical anti-Isreal departure from previous US policy also think either consciously or unconsciously that the President is an Arab or Secret Muslim because he has a "funny" name and, you know, looks like one.

It is NOT about radical anti-Israel. That is a straw man.

Please see that my post and lawhawk (and that other guy who does not want his name mentioned with mine).... nothing about secret muslim, or funny names, or anti Israel.

260 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:39:22pm

re: #255 Rightwingconspirator

Shame on them. That's ridiculous as it amounts to built in obsolescence.

Your lack of faith disturbs me.....

261 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:39:34pm

re: #258 LudwigVanQuixote

Old NASA adage, no bucks, no Buck Rogers.

This might actually happen - assuming that the GOP does not take over in 2012 since we do not have the heavy lift capacity we once did with the aging and ever more unreliable shuttle retired.

Of course...

They have also been talking about going to Mars for thirty years or so.

If they had left thirty years ago, they might be there by now.

262 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:39:46pm

re: #236 Varek Raith

NASA plans most powerful rocket ever

20% more thrust and 40 feet taller than the Saturn V.
VROOOMMM!!!

Hmmmm. 170 tons to LEO would be about 300 tons suborbital throw-weight. That could be a large re-entry vehicle that could carry 12-14 Super-duper stealth choppers it could launch on the way down. Excellent, we will be able to deploy our Black Helicopter squadrons anywhere in the world at short notice.

263 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:40:43pm

re: #249 Charleston Chew

My perception was that the President's support for Israel is about the same as previous administrations, including Bush. My concern is that people who think that this administration is a radical anti-Isreal departure from previous US policy also think either consciously or unconsciously that the President is an Arab or Secret Muslim because he has a "funny" name and, you know, looks like one.

But that depends on what you define as radical departures... Obama is kinder to Israel than Carter or Reagan was, but less of an ally than anyone else since them - and Carter and Reagan were not so nice at all.

264 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:40:53pm

re: #257 ggt

Mine is about 4 years old and I have the option to get a new phone on my AT&T plan. Is it worth getting a new battery? Wouldn't I be better off just getting an updated phone?

Get an Android, I recommend the Samsung Galaxy SII. It blows away the iPhone. And the battery (and memory) are user replaceable.

265 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:41:13pm

ahhh, Lizards to my rescue. I was silly for feeling afraid and alone! You guys got my scaly back!

Now, I can take my nap in peace.

Thank you all!

266 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:41:30pm

re: #213 Buck

The difference is that the Scottish Justice Minister actually did release of the Lockerbie bomber.

What do you think Israel did that was a mistake?

I was just using that as an illustration of a disagreement between the US and another nation over policy. The US inevitable has disagreements with every other nation on earth over something or other, but disagreement doesn't constitute said bus-throwing.

267 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:41:51pm

re: #264 Buck

Get an Android, I recommend the Samsung Galaxy SII. It blows away the iPhone. And the battery (and memory) are user replaceable.

I'm an apple girl, sorry. I love my Audible thru iTunes and my son's Android doesn't do that as well as my iPhone.

Thanks for your concern tho!

268 simoom  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:42:16pm
It’s beyond me how anyone thinks this kind of “message” does anything but further strengthen the deranged Republican Party.

Voting for an ideological opponent to "send a message" to the folks you actually generally agree with seems to be a pretty commonly expressed idea. People think that their party leadership will react by moving more in their direction policy-wise, but what almost always happens is the establishment takes the exact opposite message and advocates moving toward their ascendant/victorious opponents.

In this case those who voted to send a message about jobs & the economy will likely end up with the establishment actually hearing a message in support of GOP economic proposals: austerity for middle/lower class programs, raising the pay roll tax on the middle/lower class, "broadening the income tax base" which apparently means an income tax increase for the middle/lower class, cuts to pensions, cuts to the government workforce, no gov't job stimulus, abandoning environmental protections -- all to fund corporate, estate, dividends and top-end income tax cuts for the mythical "job creators". I hope that was the message that was actually intended by these folks because that's the one that will be received.

269 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:43:29pm

re: #261 Alouette

If they had left thirty years ago, they might be there by now.

Towards the end of the Apollo Program, there was the question of which would be the next stage in manned spaceflight: a mission to Mars or the Space Shuttle.

270 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:44:15pm

re: #269 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Towards the end of the Apollo Program, there was the question of which would be the next stage in manned spaceflight: a mission to Mars or the Space Shuttle.

The Space Shuttle;
UPS in space!

271 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:44:21pm

re: #261 Alouette

If they had left thirty years ago, they might be there by now.

Will they take Michelle Bachman home?

272 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:45:03pm

re: #271 ggt

Will they take Michelle Bachman home?

It would take them 9ish months to reach Mars.
That's a long trip with teh crazee on board.

273 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:45:08pm

re: #267 ggt

I'm an apple girl, sorry. I love my Audible thru iTunes and my son's Android doesn't do that as well as my iPhone.

Thanks for your concern tho!

I don't know which andoid he has, but that app works amazing on the SII.

274 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:45:40pm

re: #260 Buck

Your lack of faith disturbs me...

The farce is with me.

275 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:45:44pm

re: #270 Varek Raith

The Space Shuttle;
UPS in space!

Should have stripped the shuttle's flight decks and flown them as heavy-lift drones until they burn up.

276 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:46:32pm

re: #272 Varek Raith

It would take them 9ish months to reach Mars.
That's a long trip with teh crazee on board.

They could put here in stasis. . . .

277 otoc  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:46:45pm

re: #255 Rightwingconspirator

Shame on them. That's ridiculous as it amounts to built in obsolescence.

It's more a design issue for keeping it slim. Rumor is the 5 will be thinner than the 4. The iPhone 3 I gave my son to use as an iPod touch is still going strong after 3 plus years. I trade up every 2 and battery life is never an issue for my daily use as my only phone. Course, there can be defects but that should show up in the first year and mall guys are all around that'll do it on the spot. I was concerned myself when I went to an iPhone but is really hasn't been an issue except for a few times.

278 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:46:50pm

re: #258 LudwigVanQuixote

And this program isn't all that different fundamentally from the cancelled Constellation program (Ares I/Ares V) as far as the goal of heavy lift is concerned. The primary difference is that the SLS would rely mostly on liquid fuel propulsion, while the Ares program was heavily reliant on an enhanced solid rocket propulsion system.

Both use shuttle technologies - the SLS uses the shuttle's engine tech, while the Ares used the solid rocket boosters as primary propulsion.

In the end, it's about getting NASA back into the rocketry business and heavy lift at that with an eye towards big science (but really about maintaining jobs at NASA-affiliated businesses around the country).

279 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:47:22pm

I"m really going to take a nap now.

Have a great afternoon Lizards!

280 TNChuckster  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:47:58pm

re: #261 Alouette

Protection from radiation exposure is one the many things that need to be solved before a manned event can be considered.

281 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:48:12pm

re: #237 Buck

That is what “On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. " sounds like to me.

Well, there's your problem. The question is, why does it sound that way to you?

282 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:48:16pm

re: #276 ggt

They could put here in stasis. . . .

Can we do that here?

283 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:48:52pm

Later gators

284 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:49:18pm

So as far as phones are concerned: Should I go with the new iPhone (I have an iPhone 3G now) or the Droid Bionic?

285 otoc  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:49:39pm

re: #234 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

At this rate, my bet is on nobody, because Perry will find every excuse he can to avoid debates. They tend not to be his strong suit.

lol, Obama can use a puppet like Jon Stewart did with Steele for interviews. That would make the election fun and make a bunch of heads pop from the outrage.

286 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:50:00pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

Single woman, fresh out of college, assigned to a sports desk at a local TV station sleeps with single college bb player during tournament the station is covering

That never happens!!
/

Then goes on to demonize and berate all people that have sex before marriage.

Finished it for ya.

287 otoc  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:50:48pm

re: #284 HappyWarrior

So as far as phones are concerned: Should I go with the new iPhone (I have an iPhone 3G now) or the Droid Bionic?

Hold them and compare when they are both out. iPhone 5 is only rumor now.

288 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:51:19pm

re: #281 Charleston Chew

Well, there's your problem. The question is, why does it sound that way to you?

I explained that. Didn't you read my entire post?

The victims he is saying ALSO are suffering.... the Palestinian people... who is the cause of their suffering?

I know who was the cause of the suffering of the Jews in the holocaust?

You tell me.... from what he said.... who is causing the plight of the Palestinian people?

289 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:51:34pm

re: #286 RayFerd

Then goes on to demonize and berate all people wimmenz that have sex before marriage.

Finished it for ya.

FIFY

290 jamesfirecat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:51:47pm

re: #285 otoc

lol, Obama can use a puppet like Jon Stewart did with Steele for interviews. That would make the election fun and make a bunch of heads pop from the outrage.

Michele Steel

John McCain

Mitt Romeny

291 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:51:48pm

re: #285 otoc

lol, Obama can use a puppet like Jon Stewart did with Steele for interviews. That would make the election fun and make a bunch of heads pop from the outrage.

Have the puppet read from Perry's book.

292 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:52:37pm

re: #286 RayFerd

Then goes on to demonize and berate all people that have sex before marriage.

Finished it for ya.

If she had gotten pregnant, she would have married him because that's the decent Christian thing to do

293 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:53:01pm

re: #286 RayFerd

demonize and berate all people that have sex before marriage.

Can you find where Sarah Palin actually did that?

294 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:53:13pm

re: #270 Varek Raith

The Space Shuttle;
UPS in space!

It ended up coming down to a question of cost. A mission to Mars would have sucked pretty much the bulk of NASA's funding, leaving virtually nothing for other programs (Pioneer, Voyager, Mariner, etc). And pretty much the entirety of the launch system, from beginning to end, was one-time use, meaning it'd be a whole lot of money spent on a single trip.

Meanwhile, the Space Shuttle was offering a reusable launcher, that could be launched every two weeks, carrying a useful cargo load to low-Earth orbit. NASA was spinning yarns at the time of a US space station that would rival Salyut and Skylab, which would rely on the shuttle for regular restock and refuel visits.

But what put the axe in the first and nearly did in the second was the economic downturn of the 70s and the waning public interest in space travel. NASA almost didn't build the shuttle, ending up relying on Air Force funding to finish building the prototypes.

295 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:53:53pm

re: #287 otoc

Hold them and compare when they are both out. iPhone 5 is only rumor now.

Gotcha. Feeling conflicted since I already have an ITunes account and I love my iPod but I've heard Droid is better. Need to update that's for sure though since I've been having problems lately.

296 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:54:12pm

Gotta run to the store, BRB.

297 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:54:30pm

re: #288 Buck

I explained that. Didn't you read my entire post?

You tell me... from what he said... who is causing the plight of the Palestinian people?

Both the Israelis and their own leadership. If you are gonna make this into a black/white, good/evil, us/them nuance-free discussion we can just go back to our corners and shout across the room.

298 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:54:43pm

Did Bush or any President before Obama say that a prerequisite for US support of any Palestinian State was that State's explicit acceptance of Israel's right to exist?

For the Palestinians, efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure. Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won't create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection. And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist.

Did Bush or any President before Obama say that any Palestinian State must necessarily be non-militarized?

As for security, every state has the right to self-defense, and Israel must be able to defend itself. Provisions must also be robust enough to prevent a resurgence of terrorism; to stop the infiltration of weapons; and to provide effective border security. The full and phased withdrawal of Israeli military forces should be coordinated with the assumption of Palestinian security responsibility in a sovereign, non-militarized state.

Was Netanyahu for the 1967 borders with mutually agreed swaps before he was against it? Yes. Is he for them again now? Yes. Did Netanyahu cynically misrepresent President Obama's speech? Yes.

299 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:56:57pm

re: #297 ralphieboy

Both the israelios and their own leadership. If you are gonna make this into a black/white, good/evil, us/them nuance-free discussion we can just go back to your corners and shout across the room.

We disagree. And I have been clear how I feel.

However I am sure that is what Obama (and J-STREET, and media matters, and a lot of people on the left think)

300 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:57:21pm

re: #277 otoc

Thinner?! When design overcomes practicality we get the high tech equivalent of stiletto heels. Looks great but that escalator may kill ya.
//

Caveat we love our (ahem) my wife's IPad, and will likely spend the money for the installation of a new battery.

301 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:58:01pm

re: #295 HappyWarrior

Gotcha. Feeling conflicted since I already have an ITunes account and I love my iPod but I've heard Droid is better. Need to update that's for sure though since I've been having problems lately.

Reasons to go Android:

True Multi Tasking
Flash support
Voice Control.
Expandable memory.
USB port
more customizable home screen, including customizable widgets.
Better cloud-computing support
Larger screen
Better camera
Better integration with Google Apps like GMAIL, Calendar, Google Maps, and Picasa.

302 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:59:28pm

BTW on the topic at hand-Maybe it is just my circle of Jewish friends but the Obama is anti Israel meme has real strength. This seems very prevalent in the jewelry / diamond biz.

303 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 12:59:34pm

re: #299 Buck

We disagree. And I have been clear how I feel.

The Arab world has made it clear that it is willing to fight Israel right dfown to the last Palestinian. These people do not understand how cynically they are being used by fellow Muslims for political ends. that is another aspect of the tragedy.

304 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:00:06pm

re: #301 Buck

Reasons to go Android:

True Multi Tasking
Flash support
Voice Control.
Expandable memory.
USB port
more customizable home screen, including customizable widgets.
Better cloud-computing support
Larger screen
Better camera
Better integration with Google Apps like GMAIL, Calendar, Google Maps, and Picasa.

Thanks, I do like hearing that about Google aps since I use gmail as my primary email account.

305 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:01:11pm

This country is in love with failed ideology and superstition.

306 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:03:03pm

THE CONSERVATIVE NANNY STATE

This book is written in frustration and hope. People in the United States who consider themselves progressive must be frustrated over the extent to which conservative political ideologies have managed to dominate public debate about economic policy in the last quarter century. Even when progressives have won important political battles, such as the defeat of efforts to privatize Social Security, they have done so largely without a coherent ideology; rather, this success rested on the public’s recognition that it stood to lose its retirement security with this “reform.” It also helped that the public was suspicious of the motives of the proponents of Social Security privatization. However, success in the goal-line defense of the country’s most important social program is not the same thing as a forward looking agenda.

The key flaw in the stance that most progressives have taken on economic issues is that they have accepted a framing whereby conservatives are assumed to support market outcomes, while progressives want to rely on the government. This framing leads progressives to futilely lash out against markets, rather than examining the factors that lead to undesirable market outcomes. The market is just a tool, and in fact a very useful one. It makes no more sense to lash out against markets than to lash out against the wheel.

Read it all.

307 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:03:11pm

re: #305 Amory Blaine

This country is in love with failed ideology and superstition.

To some "failed ideology and superstition", to others "the Principles which Guided the Founding Fathers".
Same scriptures, same Constitution, different reading.

308 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:03:14pm

re: #298 goddamnedfrank

Was Netanyahu for the 1967 borders with mutually agreed swaps

"mutually agreed changes" is different than "mutually agreed swaps".

309 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:03:28pm

re: #305 Amory Blaine

This country is in love with failed ideology and superstition.

and fantasy, celebrity worship

310 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:03:42pm

re: #236 Varek Raith

NASA plans most powerful rocket ever

20% more thrust and 40 feet taller than the Saturn V.
VROOOMMM!!!

I'm not going to hold my breath on this. Nearly every plan NASA has had in the past 10 years that I'm even remotely interested in has been canceled.

311 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:03:57pm

re: #237 Buck

I heard this recently, and it drove it home for me:

The victims and families of 9/11 suffered a great loss from terrorists who were evil, on the other hand the families of the 19 hijackers and Osama bin Laden's wives and children also suffered a loss...

That is what “On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. " sounds like to me.

If those two things sound the same to you, then the problem is with your ears.

312 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:04:40pm

re: #303 ralphieboy

The Arab world has made it clear that it is willing to fight Israel right dfown to the last Palestinian. These people do not understand how cynically they are being used by fellow Muslims for political ends. that is another aspect of the tragedy.

So again, who is the cause of the Palestinian peoples suffering? Israelis? Or the Arab World?

313 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:05:05pm

re: #311 garhighway

If those two things sound the same to you, then the problem is with your ears.

It's not the ears tis the problem....

314 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:05:37pm

re: #302 Rightwingconspirator

BTW on the topic at hand-Maybe it is just my circle of Jewish friends but the Obama is anti Israel meme has real strength. This seems very prevalent in the jewelry / diamond biz.

Any realistic guess puts Pres Obama at about 50-50 to be the US leader for the next 6 years. The strategy of being seen as an overt supporter of him or his opposition is just self-defeating for Israel and it's well-wishers.

315 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:06:13pm

re: #306 BigPapa


You caught the gist of the debate: to some the market is a tool for balancing supply and demand and for directing capital to where it will do the most good.

To others it is an ideological ideal, one which must be left in a pristine, unregulated state.

We overlook that that market is a tool, or rather a mechanism: one that relies upon an infrastructure to function: a physical infrastructure that allows for the free transfer of goods, information and people, and a legal infrastructure that guarantees taht the market acts not just freely, but fairly.

Fair in the sense that the same rules apply to everyone and that eveyone has the same chance to benefit from the advantages of the free market.

316 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:06:56pm

re: #308 Buck

"mutually agreed changes" is different than "mutually agreed swaps".

LOL. Stop grasping straws and talk to us about your assertion of "ringing bells" in Paul Revere's letter.

317 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:07:19pm

re: #310 ArchangelMichael

I'm not going to hold my breath on this. Nearly every plan NASA has had in the past 10 years that I'm even remotely interested in has been canceled.

More foreplay, less thrust. Trust me on this, NASA.

318 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:07:37pm

re: #312 Buck

So again, who is the cause of the Palestinian peoples suffering? Israelis? Or the Arab World?

Both, to an extent, But I would say that between the two Israel has been the more fair and just in dealing with the situation.

319 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:08:26pm

re: #315 ralphieboy

American companies are setting up shop in a country that has virtual slavery. That is neither free nor fair.

320 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:10:14pm

re: #318 ralphieboy

Look at what Gaza lost when the Palestinian militants seized the "election". They lost all the economic successes and a relative peace. In a nutshell there we have a clarion demo of who takes care of the locals vs who uses them as cannon fodder and a mine-able cash resource.

321 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:10:43pm

re: #319 Amory Blaine

American companies are setting up shop in a country that has virtual slavery. That is neither free nor fair.

That is an instance where "Free Trade" is a misnomer.

Another one is when we allow unrestricted trade with nations that have lower safety or emissions standardsfor their manufacturing: we are shooting ourselves in the foot and not encouraging those nations to do anything to remedy the situation.

322 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:11:07pm

re: #321 ralphieboy

That is an instance where "Free Trade" is a misnomer.

Another one is when we allow unrestricted trade with nations that have lower safety or emissions standardsfor their manufacturing: we are shooting ourselves in the foot and not encouraging those nations to do anything to remedy the situation.

THIS.

323 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:11:23pm
324 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:14:05pm

re: #241 Rightwingconspirator

I am getting into the habit of buying an extra battery for any device like a cell phone or laptop at the time of original purchase. Seems to double the quality lifetime of the devices. Short battery life is frustrating. You should see my battery collection-Cell phones, one for the laptop and of course my two Canon DSLR cameras take different battery models. And aftermarket batteries are (usually) teh suck. Canon brand batteries are expensive but outperform all the pretenders.

Tips for prolonging usable lifetime of Lithium ion batteries

short version:
* heat kills
* avoid completely draining the battery.
* heat = bad
* storing a Lithium battery at full charge, and at zero charge, are both bad for the battery
* avoid heat!

325 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:16:14pm

re: #318 ralphieboy

Both, to an extent, But I would say that between the two Israel has been the more fair and just in dealing with the situation.

Well, that is a change from "Both the israelios and their own leadership."

Now watch this:

and then this:

Then we can talk if you want.

326 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:16:52pm

re: #239 Charles

Well, it's possible to do it yourself, if you have some experience in working with small electrical parts. There are YouTube videos showing how.

But there are some really tiny, really delicate connectors that are easy to break, and if you do, you're screwed.

The Apple Store charges close to $100 to do the job last time I checked -- I Googled 'iPhone battery repair' in my area and found a guy who did it for $40 in about 10 minutes while I waited.

Sigh.

She loves her iPhone (and I don't blame her) so I guess I am out the ducats.

Thanks for the info, Charles.

327 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:16:56pm

re: #315 ralphieboy

You caught the gist of the debate: to some the market is a tool for balanding supply and demand and for directing capital to where it will do the most good.

To others it is an ideological ideal, one which must be left in a pristine, unregulated state.

It's pretty clear that your second point refers to today's conservatism. As somebody who thinks capitalism is best when regulated, I liked how this person is working to reframe the debate away from 'capitalism vs big government.' That is how the debate is usually framed.

While I don't consider myself progressive, I'm sick and tired of debating how big or small government should be. We need shit taken care of, government does it, government size is a result of assessing and executing needs, does it matter what 'size' it ends up being?

Driving the debate on those terms takes the wind out of the zealot's sails.

328 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:16:58pm

Move over football, the next great Christian Revival is coming thru

Yeah, I'm sure the owners will have no problems with turning over their multimillion dollar stadiums over to preachers since they'll have the love of Jesus in their hearts.

329 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:17:21pm

re: #288 Buck

I explained that. Didn't you read my entire post?

The victims he is saying ALSO are suffering... the Palestinian people... who is the cause of their suffering?

I know who was the cause of the suffering of the Jews in the holocaust?

You tell me... from what he said... who is causing the plight of the Palestinian people?

He doesn't blame anyone explicitly. Maybe one can have compassion without blame. Do you think that's possible?

At any rate, if I were to try to imagine an unspoken blaming subtext, I wouldn't interpret it as strictly "blame Israel". This is an area of land that has a long history (that I know almost nothing about) of legal or physical occupation, annexation, or administration by many nations and non-nation groups. The Ottoman Empire, the British, the French, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Egypt, the PLO, Hamas.

330 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:19:17pm

re: #329 Charleston Chew

He doesn't blame anyone explicitly. Maybe one can have compassion without blame. Do you think that's possible?

At any rate, if I were to try to imagine an unspoken blaming subtext, I wouldn't interpret it as strictly "blame Israel". This is an area of land that has a long history (that I know almost nothing about) of legal or physical occupation, annexation, or administration by many nations and non-nation groups. The Ottoman Empire, the British, the French, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Egypt, the PLO, Hamas.

Please. An acknowledgement of complexity? A recognition of context? Are you insane?

/

331 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:19:20pm

re: #324 negativ

Tips for prolonging usable lifetime of Lithium ion batteries

short version:
* heat kills
* avoid completely draining the battery.
* heat = bad
* storing a Lithium battery at full charge, and at zero charge, are both bad for the battery
* avoid heat!

Thanks. I knew about the heat we even tend to recharge is sitting on a cold marble counter. But fully draining it I had thought was a good idea. And I'm afraid to "spike" recharge dead ones as was suggested in a couple articles online.

332 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:20:29pm

re: #248 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's cool, but wake me up when they resurrect the NERVA. Or Project Orion.

Heck with those, I want VASIMR online. A VASIMR drive, a nuclear power source & you're at Mars from Earth in 39 days.

333 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:20:29pm

re: #329 Charleston Chew

He doesn't blame anyone explicitly. Maybe one can have compassion without blame. Do you think that's possible?

No. Assigning blame is the first step towards turning a problem into an outrage and a casus belli.

/

334 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:22:00pm

re: #328 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Move over football, the next great Christian Revival is coming thru

NFL games would be canceled because all the players and fans would be too busy attending revival meetings, but the stadiums would not be empty because they "were built for revival, the owners just didn't know it."

335 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:22:20pm

re: #329 Charleston Chew

He doesn't blame anyone explicitly. Maybe one can have compassion without blame. Do you think that's possible?

At any rate, if I were to try to imagine an unspoken blaming subtext, I wouldn't interpret it as strictly "blame Israel". This is an area of land that has a long history (that I know almost nothing about) of legal or physical occupation, annexation, or administration by many nations and non-nation groups. The Ottoman Empire, the British, the French, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Egypt, the PLO, Hamas.

OK, a nice history lesson that misses the most important part. Arafat only created Palestinans in 1964. Was anyone worried about a Muslim Palestinian State when Gaza, Samaria, Judea and Jerusalem were occupied by Egypt and Jordan?

Please watch this video to get the history lesson you seem to need:

336 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:24:49pm

OK, I gotta go.

Life to lead....

337 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:25:10pm

re: #328 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Move over football, the next great Christian Revival is coming thru

Yeah, I'm sure the owners will have no problems with turning over their multimillion dollar stadiums over to preachers since they'll have the love of Jesus in their hearts.

There will still be time for Christian Powerlifting:

[Link: cpoa.proboards.com...]

338 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:25:24pm

OK. Back in Denver. Car's all unpacked. Whew.

339 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:26:20pm

atrios at eschaton:

Very Serious International Economic Advice

Cut spending to cut deficits -> economy shrinks -> deficits increase ->cut more spending -> economy shrinks -> deficits increase -> ...

340 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:26:37pm

re: #334 ArchangelMichael

"We've decided to replace this year's Super Bowl with a discussion of Jesus's love. Lets see what happens..."

341 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:27:13pm

re: #340 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"We've decided to replace this year's Super Bowl with a discussion of Jesus's love. Lets see what happens..."

People will still tune in just to watch the commercials...

342 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:27:44pm

re: #339 engineer dog

atrios at eschaton:

Very Serious International Economic Advice

Cut spending to cut deficits -> economy shrinks -> deficits increase ->cut more spending -> economy shrinks -> deficits increase -> ...

We need a Kenyan Keynsian!!!

343 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:28:00pm

re: #332 wlewisiii

Heck with those, I want VASIMR online. A VASIMR drive, a nuclear power source & you're at Mars from Earth in 39 days.

Sorry will not happen without a major change in the way Americans think.

The Right wont let it happen because it requires science and costs money with no immediate applications for killing Muslims.

The Left wont allow it because it requires nuclear power. Anything with the word "nuclear" in it makes them wet their pants.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:28:45pm

re: #302 Rightwingconspirator

BTW on the topic at hand-Maybe it is just my circle of Jewish friends but the Obama is anti Israel meme has real strength. This seems very prevalent in the jewelry / diamond biz.

It's gaining strength, and it seems, to me, essentially irrational. THis does not mean I approve of all of Obama's Israel policy, but it seems to me very much in line with what came before. Stripped down, it seems to have more to do with a sense that they just KNOW he hates Israel, than to anything that he has actually done or said.

345 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:29:22pm

re: #338 Gus 802

OK. Back in Denver. Car's all unpacked. Whew.

Feel better yet?

346 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:29:50pm

re: #335 Buck

OK, a nice history lesson that misses the most important part. Arafat only created Palestinans in 1964. Was anyone worried about a Muslim Palestinian State when Gaza, Samaria, Judea and Jerusalem were occupied by Egypt and Jordan?

I'm still missing the point. What does this have to do with what the President said?

347 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:30:11pm

re: #338 Gus 802

OK. Back in Denver. Car's all unpacked. Whew.

Congratulations!

348 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:30:27pm

re: #341 ralphieboy

People will still tune in just to watch the commercials...

"Sponsored by Glenn Beck and Goldline..."

349 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:30:53pm

re: #345 Killgore Trout

Feel better yet?

A little. Need to get the windshield repaired. Got whacked by a rock on my way from Fort Collins. Ugh. 35 bucks though and he's coming here to do it. Knock on wood.

350 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:31:08pm

re: #342 ralphieboy

We need a Kenyan Keynsian!!!

Upding only for wordplay.

351 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:31:21pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

... it seems to have more to do with a sense that they just KNOW he hates Israel, than to anything that he has actually done or said.

...and we jusr know that he hates America, capitalism, motherhood and Jesus. Anything he says or does (or does not say or do) can be interpreted in that light.

352 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:31:40pm

Smoke. BRB

353 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:32:08pm

re: #352 Gus 802

Smoke. BRB

Roll around for a bit. You'll be fine.

354 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:32:09pm

re: #335 Buck

OK, a nice history lesson that misses the most important part. Arafat only created Palestinans in 1964. Was anyone worried about a Muslim Palestinian State when Gaza, Samaria, Judea and Jerusalem were occupied by Egypt and Jordan?

Please watch this video to get the history lesson you seem to need:

[Link: youtu.be...]

Great point. By acquiescing to Jordanian rule they forfeited their right to object to Israeli rule.

I'd really love to know who makes up these rules.

Seriously, though: I think that everyone gets that the Palestinian people have been used as pawns by a whole parade of bad actors. Does that make what Obama said any less true?

355 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:32:36pm

re: #338 Gus 802

Anything lined up yet?

356 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:32:41pm

re: #351 ralphieboy

...and we jusr know that he hates America, capitalism, motherhood and Jesus. Anything he says or does (or does not say or do) can be interpreted in that light.

And he fails to hate Arabs, Muslims, and/or Palestinians.

357 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:33:15pm

re: #356 wrenchwench

And he fails to hate Arabs, Muslims, and/or Palestinians.

to hate America means to love Muslims...

/

358 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:33:43pm

re: #329 Charleston Chew

Here's the thing. Getting lost in history is really just a red herring, made possible by the fact that the region in question has been inhabited for millennia and the people in question have a beef going back to Jacob and Esau. You need look no further than the UN resolution establishing the modern state of Israel. A partition of the British mandate land into a Jewish state and an Arab state was accepted by the Jews, and rejected by the Arabs, who have been trying ever since to destroy the Jewish entity. This is being attempted on many fronts. Military, public relations, demographic, etc. The Palestinians are the longest standing "refugee" population on earth. Gaza and much of the West Bank have been without significant Jewish populations for quite some time. Ehud Barak offered 96% of the territory claimed by Palestinians in exchange for recognition of Israel and peace. They would not even negotiate.

So today, we have a bunch of people who are suffering not because they have to, but because it is convenient for their Muslim brothers that they do so. And the ire of the world is directed at a multi-ethnic, democratic state trying to hang on to a sliver of beachfront property that nobody would want if there were no Jews on it. The PLO, in keeping with the policies of all the other Islamic Republics in the neighbourhood, want a Jew-free environment and continue to pander to extreme elements of their society who see a Palestinian state as covering all the former British mandate.

359 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:34:57pm

re: #340 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"We've decided to replace this year's Super Bowl with a discussion of Jesus's love. Lets see what happens..."

It would be a disaster of biblical proportions.

There will be riots. There will be burning hospitals with people on crutches jumping off the roof. A paint factory will blow up, an oil refinery will explode, and a tornado will hit a church. There will be an enraged fan running through the Kmart shooting at customers with an automatic weapon. There will be thousands of people in the street killing police. There will be a nuclear meltdown in a big city. If they announce this before the weekend, the stock market will drop 4,000 points in one day.

Go ahead, cancel football in America. Cross the streams. I triple dog dare you.

360 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:35:48pm

Errands to to run. bbib

361 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:36:52pm

re: #312 Buck

So again, who is the cause of the Palestinian peoples suffering? Israelis? Or the Arab World?

I'd call it a regional problem, which has been permitted to get worse, due to the convenience for everyone else in the region of making it Israel's problem.

362 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:37:13pm

re: #358 imp_62

So today, we have a bunch of people who are suffering not because they have to, but because it is convenient for their Muslim brothers that they do so.

Isn't this a damn good reason to have compassion for them?

363 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:38:34pm

re: #359 ArchangelMichael

"Your bread and circus debauchery is hereby cancelled. All hail Zod!!

364 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:39:08pm

re: #329 Charleston Chew

He doesn't blame anyone explicitly. Maybe one can have compassion without blame. Do you think that's possible?

At any rate, if I were to try to imagine an unspoken blaming subtext, I wouldn't interpret it as strictly "blame Israel". This is an area of land that has a long history (that I know almost nothing about) of legal or physical occupation, annexation, or administration by many nations and non-nation groups. The Ottoman Empire, the British, the French, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Egypt, the PLO, Hamas.

All true, except that in fact, there's a well-developed narrative out there, dedicated to blaming Israel and only Israel. (I came in late to this discussion, so don't know how relevent this statement of mine is to what came before.)

365 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:39:16pm

re: #355 Bubblehead II

Anything lined up yet?

Staying at a friends for a while. We'll see.

Just called a client. Anyway. I did some preliminary work for him. Mini-storage. Handsome building with brick exterior. Anodized aluminum storefront windows, green trim. So, they wouldn't even let him go as far as seeing city council. IOW. The project was killed by the usual suspects. This crap happens time and time again.

Yeah. Who needs jobs?

366 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:39:24pm

re: #362 Charleston Chew

Isn't this a damn good reason to have compassion for them?

Having compassion for Muslims is tanamount to loving Islam, which is the moral equivalent of hating America. Is that not clear?

/

367 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:40:37pm

re: #335 Buck

OK, a nice history lesson that misses the most important part. Arafat only created Palestinans in 1964. Was anyone worried about a Muslim Palestinian State when Gaza, Samaria, Judea and Jerusalem were occupied by Egypt and Jordan?

Please watch this video to get the history lesson you seem to need:

[Link: youtu.be...]

I try to explain to people that the Palestinians were ultimately the losers of the world's biggest game of Musical Chairs.

368 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:41:30pm

re: #351 ralphieboy

...and we jusr know that he hates America, capitalism, motherhood and Jesus. Anything he says or does (or does not say or do) can be interpreted in that light.

I don't have to deal with those in my real life much, though, and as a pro-Israel activist, the Israel one comes up INCESSANTLY.

369 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:41:48pm

re: #365 Gus 802

Staying at a friends for a while. We'll see.

Just called a client. Anyway. I did some preliminary work for him. Mini-storage. Handsome building with brick exterior. Anodized aluminum storefront windows, green trim. So, they wouldn't even let him go as far as seeing city council. IOW. The project was killed by the usual suspects. This crap happens time and time again.

Yeah. Who needs jobs?

NIMBY kills a lot of jobs.

370 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:43:30pm

re: #369 garhighway

NIMBY kills a lot of jobs.

Sure does. It would have been construction work. Since it's a mini-storage it would have been a low employment operation but it still would have provided revenue afterwards. And as a mini-storage it means low traffic impact.

371 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:43:52pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

Essentially, BHO has been a politically weak President. Long on policy wonkiness, but very short on political savvy beyond getting elected. Other Presidents have dealt with being a Congressional minority, and have succeeded. You can argue that the TP/GOP stance is particularly virulent, and you would be correct. But that just means the President has to be particularly clever about his political Kung Fu. I have been really disappointed with BHO for a while now. He negotiates when he should take a principled stand, and makes speeches when he should be taking action. He has good ideas, he is very bright, but he needs to embrace political battle. If Tip O'Neill were still with us, he would provide invaluable advice.

I agree with much of what BHO has wanted to accomplish. I just wish he had the heft to actually accomplish it. Dodd/Frank is still unfunded, and Health Care Act is being dragged all the way up to the SCOTUS, where the individual mandate will be ruled unconstitutional. Then what does he have to show for 4 years of presidency? And putting all the blame on the TP/GOP, as heinous as they are, is ignoring the fact that BHO has just got to roll up his sleeves and get into a bar fight with these people. Soon.

372 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:44:04pm

Plus. We hardly have any land left to develop in the USA.

//

373 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:45:02pm

When I was younger our band set up shop in a mini storage. Worse neighbors I could not imagine. It didn't last long.

374 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:46:43pm

re: #371 imp_62

He left us holding the bag in Wisconsin. No encouragement from his administration.

375 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:50:06pm

re: #362 Charleston Chew

Isn't this a damn good reason to have compassion for them?

I have compassion for the children who are being raised to hate. I have little room for compassion with people who fatalistically allow themselves to be ruled by the likes of Arafat, Abbas and who elect Hamas. Jews had to fight British mandate immigration quotas to move to pre-1947 Palestine, which was malaria-infested hellhole. Then they worked to create a functioning society. Then they created a democratic state. Then they fought for survival against overwhelming odds, and continue to do so. What have the Palestinians done to deserve compassion? Pity - maybe. Compassion is much more difficult to muster when the surrounding brotherhood of Muslim countries is rolling in trillions of petro-dollars and makes unfunded commitments to their poor Palestinian brethren.

376 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:52:25pm

re: #371 imp_62

Essentially, BHO has been a politically weak President. Long on policy wonkiness, but very short on political savvy beyond getting elected. Other Presidents have dealt with being a Congressional minority, and have succeeded. You can argue that the TP/GOP stance is particularly virulent, and you would be correct. But that just means the President has to be particularly clever about his political Kung Fu. I have been really disappointed with BHO for a while now. He negotiates when he should take a principled stand, and makes speeches when he should be taking action. He has good ideas, he is very bright, but he needs to embrace political battle. If Tip O'Neill were still with us, he would provide invaluable advice.

I agree with much of what BHO has wanted to accomplish. I just wish he had the heft to actually accomplish it. Dodd/Frank is still unfunded, and Health Care Act is being dragged all the way up to the SCOTUS, where the individual mandate will be ruled unconstitutional. Then what does he have to show for 4 years of presidency? And putting all the blame on the TP/GOP, as heinous as they are, is ignoring the fact that BHO has just got to roll up his sleeves and get into a bar fight with these people. Soon.

I totally relate to this feeling, but also think it's an underestimation of the difficulty of being President. It ends up being an alternate-reality question. "What if he had done things differently?" "What if someone else were President." Clinton had a crack a healthcare and did terribly. Did that prove she sucked at it, or that she had valuable experience and wouldn't have made the same mistakes?

377 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:53:51pm

re: #371 imp_62


I think he is pulling a bit of Richard Nixon in that he is putting his faith in the "silent majority" of voters who are turned off at people who applaud executions or calls of "let him die!".

Without being an ideologue or a demagogue about it, he is appealing to those people who are not driven by ideology or hatred of government/Islam/immigrants, etc.

The GOP is doing absolutely nothing to address these people. They do not shout loud enough to gain attention at debates...

378 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:54:13pm

re: #376 Charleston Chew

We have video of conservatives roaring in approval to let a man die. If you can't or won't fight back hard against that, you are a piss poor leader.

379 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:55:39pm

i thought i'd take a little time off from my attempts to imitate an intelligent person...

A new book about tea party darling Sarah Palin has a salacious revelation about her sex life involving a well-known Miami sports star.

According to The National Enquirer, which obtained an advance copy of a book about Palin by investigative writer Joe McGinniss — Palin and former Miami Heat player Glen Rice had a one-night tryst back in 1987.

At the time, the former Alaska governor, now 47, was single, just out of college and working as a sports reporter at Anchorage TV station KTUU.

Rice, 44, who lives in Coral Gables, was a promising junior basketball player at the University of Michigan.

Their encounter occurred while Rice was in Anchorage attending a basketball tournament and Palin apparently covered the event. Months later, in 1988, Palin eloped with her high school sweetheart Todd Palin. The two are still married.

Quoting from the book, the tabloid said that at the time, the 23-year-old Palin had a “fetish” about black men.

380 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:56:15pm

re: #378 Amory Blaine

We have video of conservatives roaring in approval to let a man die. If you can't or won't fight back hard against that, you are a piss poor leader.

You have summed up the flaw that is going to leade to a decline of the GOP over the long or even short term.

381 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:57:32pm

re: #379 engineer dog

How long until she is spun as a "victim" for this report?
Or would you call her purported fetish for black men a new twist on "blood" libel?

382 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:59:18pm

She was single, yay freedom. How she squares it with her god is another issue.

383 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:59:29pm

re: #375 imp_62

I have little room for compassion with people who fatalistically allow themselves to be ruled by the likes of Arafat, Abbas and who elect Hamas.

I have sympathy for them despite Hamas, the same way I have sympathy for Texans despite the existence of Rick Perry. The way I had sympathy for myself as an American despite the Bush administration.

Or maybe "despite" should be replaced with "because of".

384 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 1:59:30pm

re: #371 imp_62

Essentially, BHO has been a politically weak President. Long on policy wonkiness, but very short on political savvy beyond getting elected. Other Presidents have dealt with being a Congressional minority, and have succeeded. You can argue that the TP/GOP stance is particularly virulent, and you would be correct. But that just means the President has to be particularly clever about his political Kung Fu. I have been really disappointed with BHO for a while now. He negotiates when he should take a principled stand, and makes speeches when he should be taking action. He has good ideas, he is very bright, but he needs to embrace political battle. If Tip O'Neill were still with us, he would provide invaluable advice.

I agree with much of what BHO has wanted to accomplish. I just wish he had the heft to actually accomplish it. Dodd/Frank is still unfunded, and Health Care Act is being dragged all the way up to the SCOTUS, where the individual mandate will be ruled unconstitutional. Then what does he have to show for 4 years of presidency? And putting all the blame on the TP/GOP, as heinous as they are, is ignoring the fact that BHO has just got to roll up his sleeves and get into a bar fight with these people. Soon.

I'm not going to claim to be happy about how these last three years have played out, but I think there is a considerable element of magical thinking regarding "what Obama should have done".

Justice Brennan used to say that the single most important thing you need to know to be a good Supreme Court Justice was how to count to five. The most important thing you have to be able to do in Washington politics is count to 60. BHO never had 60 reliable votes in the Senate, and has therefore been at the mercy of the Ben Nelson's of the world throughout. Despite that, and during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, he:

1> saved the domestic auto industry (Commie!)
2> passed HCR. (And I respectfully disagree regarding your handicapping of the Supremes on this point.)
3> Passed a stimulus that probably knocked a couple of points off of the peak unemployment rate.
4> Passed Dodd Frank.
5> Got Start ratified.
6> Got Sotomayor and Kagan on the Supreme Court. (Think about that Court with two more Scalias.) They'll be there for 30 years: bright, fair, and reasonable.
7. Got the Iraq withdrawal going.
8. Overlooked item: got CAFE standards increased significantly.

This is a quick, off-the-cuff list. Would I rather he gone all Rambo on Boehner and McConnell? Sure. It would have felt good in the short term. Would it have gotten him to 60 on anything important? I very much doubt it.

385 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:00:56pm

re: #379 engineer dog

i thought i'd take a little time off from my attempts to imitate an intelligent person...

A new book about tea party darling Sarah Palin has a salacious revelation about her sex life involving a well-known Miami sports star.

According to The National Enquirer, which obtained an advance copy of a book about Palin by investigative writer Joe McGinniss — Palin and former Miami Heat player Glen Rice had a one-night tryst back in 1987.

At the time, the former Alaska governor, now 47, was single, just out of college and working as a sports reporter at Anchorage TV station KTUU.

Rice, 44, who lives in Coral Gables, was a promising junior basketball player at the University of Michigan.

Their encounter occurred while Rice was in Anchorage attending a basketball tournament and Palin apparently covered the event. Months later, in 1988, Palin eloped with her high school sweetheart Todd Palin. The two are still married.

Quoting from the book, the tabloid said that at the time, the 23-year-old Palin had a “fetish” about black men.

I think this sort of stuff is out of bounds. What she did in 1987 is no one's business.

386 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:01:21pm

re: #376 Charleston Chew

I am not engaging in "what if" thinking; I want BHO to go out there now and start advocating and fighting. We are beyond speeches and discussion and negotiation. He made a start with his new jobs initiative. The problem with that is there is not even a unanimous voice from the centre that his math is correct. Also, he has trained Congress to expect no resistance from the WH when they savage his initiatives. Let's see if this time is different. I mean, if BHO doesn't believe strongly enough in what he is doing to fight for it, why should anybody else?

387 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:03:56pm

re: #385 garhighway

Frankly, I barely give a shit about her today. Why should I care about 1987?

388 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:04:19pm

re: #386 imp_62

I am not engaging in "what if" thinking; I want BHO to go out there now and start advocating and fighting. We are beyond speeches and discussion and negotiation. He made a start with his new jobs initiative. The problem with that is there is not even a unanimous voice from the centre that his math is correct. Also, he has trained Congress to expect no resistance from the WH when they savage his initiatives. Let's see if this time is different. I mean, if BHO doesn't believe strongly enough in what he is doing to fight for it, why should anybody else?

So what EXACTLY would you have him do? "Fighting" is, in this context, metaphorical. (At least I think you mean it that way. I don't think you expect him to hit Boehner in the face with a Bud longneck. Though I would pay real money to see that.)

What precise action would you have him take?

389 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:05:30pm

re: #378 Amory Blaine

We have video of conservatives roaring in approval to let a man die. If you can't or won't fight back hard against that, you are a piss poor leader.

True, but fighting back involves strategy, and good strategy is not always obvious. Sometimes people just need enough rope to hang themselves with, as the saying goes.

I've compared the President to a matador before (and my apologies to people who find bullfights offensive): he stays still, calm, and disciplined and lets the enraged dumb animal charge the distracting red cape. I don't know if this is a winning strategy or not, but I've underestimated him before.

390 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:06:15pm

Twist every fucking arm in Washington so every single paragraph of his jobs bill is adopted would be a start.

391 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:06:51pm

re: #390 Amory Blaine

Twist every fucking arm in Washington so every single paragraph of his jobs bill is adopted would be a start.

Yet another metaphor.

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:07:50pm

re: #379 engineer dog

i thought i'd take a little time off from my attempts to imitate an intelligent person...

A new book about tea party darling Sarah Palin has a salacious revelation about her sex life involving a well-known Miami sports star.

According to The National Enquirer, which obtained an advance copy of a book about Palin by investigative writer Joe McGinniss — Palin and former Miami Heat player Glen Rice had a one-night tryst back in 1987.

At the time, the former Alaska governor, now 47, was single, just out of college and working as a sports reporter at Anchorage TV station KTUU.

Rice, 44, who lives in Coral Gables, was a promising junior basketball player at the University of Michigan.

Their encounter occurred while Rice was in Anchorage attending a basketball tournament and Palin apparently covered the event. Months later, in 1988, Palin eloped with her high school sweetheart Todd Palin. The two are still married.

Quoting from the book, the tabloid said that at the time, the 23-year-old Palin had a “fetish” about black men.

Uh, let me see. She was single, he was single, and they had sex. Now he's a retired athlete, and she's a Tea Party icon.

Is there some reason I should care about this? He's assuredly not Track's father.

393 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:08:58pm

re: #385 garhighway

I think this sort of stuff is out of bounds. What she did in 1987 is no one's business.

It's also fairly uninteresting. I don't know what the journalistic ethics rules about this sort of thing are, exactly, but I'm guessing this isn't entirely unheard of.

394 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:12:25pm

re: #379 engineer dog

According to The National Enquirer,

OK, good so now the The National Enquirer is a respectable source... This is going to be fun.

395 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:13:13pm

re: #384 garhighway

1> saved the domestic auto industry (Commie!)
--an initiative that was started during the Bush administration. BHO cannot claim policy ownership of this one.
2> passed HCR. (And I respectfully disagree regarding your handicapping of the Supremes on this point.)
--remains unimplemented and the juridical arguments are all over the place. Not a win until validated and implemented.
3> Passed a stimulus that probably knocked a couple of points off of the peak unemployment rate.
--hard to prove. Unemployment is now higher than before stimulus, and job creation is in a death spiral. Stimulus was a partial win in that it softened the landing, but we did not get enough bang for our buck, imo.
4> Passed Dodd Frank.
--remains unfunded, for the most part. SEC, FDIC et al are having no luck getting sufficient funding for enforcement. Not a win until BHO gets the money for enforcement.
5> Got Start ratified.
--Agreed. Win.
6> Got Sotomayor and Kagan on the Supreme Court. (Think about that Court with two more Scalias.) They'll be there for 30 years: bright, fair, and reasonable.
--Agreed. Win.
7. Got the Iraq withdrawal going.
--Partial win. Gitmo still open, withdrawal took longer to start than promised.
8. Overlooked item: got CAFE standards increased significantly.
---agreed. Win.

396 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:13:22pm

How about threats ? Is that too metaphorical ? I get it, you like his mealy center right apologetics. I don't. He said he couldn't do it alone, that we would have to fight for what we wanted. Well, we rose up over 100,00 strong to push back against the TeaBaggers in Wisconsin. He didn't send a metaphor to help. He didn't send shit.

397 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:14:37pm

Yeah the Palin-Rice thing is a whole lot of nothing. It only amuses me because as I said earlier I remember playing as Rice when I played NBA Jam/Live back in the day and remembered him having a mad three point shot. And the fact it's just random. I could care less who she's fucked. I still don't want her anywhere near elected office which is something totally unrelated to who she screwed in 1987 which happens to be the year I was born.

398 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:14:54pm

re: #367 SanFranciscoZionist

I try to explain to people that the Palestinians were ultimately the losers of the world's biggest game of Musical Chairs.

I kinda disagree. Anyone who wanted a chair could have had one. A million Muslim/Arab and Christians did. They just had to accept citizenship and be peaceful.

399 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:16:41pm

re: #388 garhighway

So what EXACTLY would you have him do? "Fighting" is, in this context, metaphorical. (At least I think you mean it that way. I don't think you expect him to hit Boehner in the face with a Bud longneck. Though I would pay real money to see that.)

What precise action would you have him take?

lol.
Precisely? I want to see him rally his congressional supporters, call out the fence-sitters, tell the nation exactly what it is they will be getting with more TP-ers in D.C. and heavens forbid, the WH.
Fight is exactly what it sounds like. Fight. Do to them as they are doing into him. Show the courage of his convictions after the spotlights go out and the teleprompters are turned off.

400 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:16:49pm

re: #362 Charleston Chew

Isn't this a damn good reason to have compassion for them?

OK you can have compassion for them. Do you have compassion for everybody who claims to be a victim? And how do you express that compassion?

401 God of Binders with Women  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:17:33pm

re: #384 garhighway

I'm not going to claim to be happy about how these last three years have played out, but I think there is a considerable element of magical thinking regarding "what Obama should have done".

Justice Brennan used to say that the single most important thing you need to know to be a good Supreme Court Justice was how to count to five. The most important thing you have to be able to do in Washington politics is count to 60. BHO never had 60 reliable votes in the Senate, and has therefore been at the mercy of the Ben Nelson's of the world throughout. Despite that, and during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, he:

1> saved the domestic auto industry (Commie!)
2> passed HCR. (And I respectfully disagree regarding your handicapping of the Supremes on this point.)
3> Passed a stimulus that probably knocked a couple of points off of the peak unemployment rate.
4> Passed Dodd Frank.
5> Got Start ratified.
6> Got Sotomayor and Kagan on the Supreme Court. (Think about that Court with two more Scalias.) They'll be there for 30 years: bright, fair, and reasonable.
7. Got the Iraq withdrawal going.
8. Overlooked item: got CAFE standards increased significantly.

This is a quick, off-the-cuff list. Would I rather he gone all Rambo on Boehner and McConnell? Sure. It would have felt good in the short term. Would it have gotten him to 60 on anything important? I very much doubt it.

All I know is that Obama not only continued the war in Afghanistan, he escalated it, and that means he has innocent blood on his hands. Obama is nothing more than a politician. Period.

402 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:17:57pm

re: #395 imp_62

1> saved the domestic auto industry (Commie!)
--an initiative that was started during the Bush administration. BHO cannot claim policy ownership of this one. Please. Bush kicked the can down the road by making some tepid short-term guarantees.
2> passed HCR. (And I respectfully disagree regarding your handicapping of the Supremes on this point.)
--remains unimplemented and the juridical arguments are all over the place. Not a win until validated and implemented. We disagree.
3> Passed a stimulus that probably knocked a couple of points off of the peak unemployment rate.
--hard to prove. Unemployment is now higher than before stimulus, and job creation is in a death spiral. Stimulus was a partial win in that it softened the landing, but we did not get enough bang for our buck, imo. The non-partisan economists agree on this. (I rely on our corporate economist where I work as a bellweather.) Did he compromise between what was needed and what he could get passed? Yes: see "counting to 60".
4> Passed Dodd Frank.
--remains unfunded, for the most part. SEC, FDIC et al are having no luck getting sufficient funding for enforcement. Not a win until BHO gets the money for enforcement. Gravity's too strong, too.
5> Got Start ratified.
--Agreed. Win.
6> Got Sotomayor and Kagan on the Supreme Court. (Think about that Court with two more Scalias.) They'll be there for 30 years: bright, fair, and reasonable.
--Agreed. Win.
7. Got the Iraq withdrawal going.
--Partial win. Gitmo still open, withdrawal took longer to start than promised.
8. Overlooked item: got CAFE standards increased significantly.
---agreed. Win.

OK: we partially agree. That's a good day.

403 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:18:29pm

Statue of Liberty is a demonic idol! [Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]

404 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:18:36pm

re: #378 Amory Blaine

We have video of conservatives roaring in approval to let a man die. If you can't or won't fight back hard against that, you are a piss poor leader.

You don't actually. I hear maybe three guys yelling "Yah!" but then, later a cheer for Ron Pauls response, where he never uttered the words or said anything about letting a man die.

I disagree with almost everything RP says, but he did not say "Let him die", and the crowd did not cheer when the commentator said it.

405 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:19:43pm

re: #403 WindUpBird

Statue of Liberty is a demonic idol! [Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]

Ha, I saw this. Give me your tired masses to Lord Satan.

406 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:20:13pm

re: #402 garhighway

See? We are dong better than BHO and the GOP and it only took us ten minutes.

407 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:21:11pm

re: #405 HappyWarrior

Ha, I saw this. Give me your tired masses to Lord Satan.

The comedy if perry becomes the nominee

OH THE COMEDY

408 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:21:17pm

re: #399 imp_62

lol.
Precisely? I want to see him rally his congressional supporters, call out the fence-sitters, tell the nation exactly what it is they will be getting with more TP-ers in D.C. and heavens forbid, the WH.
Fight is exactly what it sounds like. Fight. Do to them as they are doing into him. Show the courage of his convictions after the spotlights go out and the teleprompters are turned off.

Oh, my. "Tell the nation exactly...." That's... giving a speech!

"Do to them..." Voting "no" isn't a card he can play, is it?

Look, I agree that it will feel much better to see him knocking heads. (Metaphor alert!) He shamed a few Republicans and Blue Dogs into voting for HCR and it damn near took shutting down Congress for a year. And he had more votes then. Those cards are no longer in the deck.

409 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:22:27pm

re: #407 WindUpBird

The comedy if perry becomes the nominee

OH THE COMEDY

I know, I don't wanna underestimate the guy tho. People are gullible.

410 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:22:54pm

re: #408 garhighway

Oh, my. "Tell the nation exactly..." That's... giving a speech!

"Do to them..." Voting "no" isn't a card he can play, is it?

Look, I agree that it will feel much better to see him knocking heads. (Metaphor alert!) He shamed a few Republicans and Blue Dogs into voting for HCR and it damn near took shutting down Congress for a year. And he had more votes then. Those cards are no longer in the deck.

Well, shit obviously all he needs to do is make an infernal pact with the satanic robot in New York Harbor and sic Her on them

411 Gus  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:23:26pm

Was out there with the windshield repair guy. Done. Looks good. 35 bucks.

OK, BBL folks.

412 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:23:42pm

re: #409 HappyWarrior

I know, I don't wanna underestimate the guy tho. People are gullible.

Oh if he wins, it'll still be comedy

Just more...black comedy

413 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:24:53pm

re: #412 WindUpBird

Oh if he wins, it'll still be comedy

Just more...black comedy

True that.

414 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:24:56pm

re: #404 Buck

You don't actually. I hear maybe three guys yelling "Yah!" but then, later a cheer for Ron Pauls response, where he never uttered the words or said anything about letting a man die.

I disagree with almost everything RP says, but he did not say "Let him die", and the crowd did not cheer when the commentator said it.

The crowd response was sophomoric and disgusting. Paul was trying to be consistent by saying that everyone has a right to make a choice, but the logical extension of his thinking is that the individual must bear the consequences of his choices, as well. In this instance, society is not required to bear the cost of his decision - the patient dies (unless some church or other beneficent group has stepped in. Anybody but the government). He did not say it, but it is clear form his policy positions that the person in the example dies in front of the ER. In RP's world, society is a bunch of individuals staying out of each other's way. That is so far off the arc of civilization that he is in orbit around a completely different planet.

415 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:25:01pm

re: #398 Buck

I kinda disagree. Anyone who wanted a chair could have had one. A million Muslim/Arab and Christians did. They just had to accept citizenship and be peaceful.

I don't think you can make it as simple as that. All hell was breaking loose in 47/48. Armies on the move, nations being declared, wars being declared. Misinformation was rife, fear was widespread. People made decisions based on what was happening around them, and what they knew or thought they knew.

And if you were an Arab already living in what became the West Bank? What could those folks have done to cover their tachatim? Pack up and book like hell for inside the 49 armistice lines? I mean, if I were a time traveller, I'd recommend that, but at the time it would probably have seemed a tad insane, if even possible.

416 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:25:57pm

Look at that - Twitter seems to be completely offline. Haven't seen that happen before.

417 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:26:02pm

re: #403 WindUpBird

We don’t get liberty from a false goddess folks, we get our liberty from Jesus Christ and that Statue of Liberty in no way glorifies Jesus Christ. There is no connection whatsoever. So I’m just telling you we practice idolatry in America in ways that we don’t even recognize.

I have to get a new Poe's Law idol.

418 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:26:09pm

I do think, if Perry wins, I probably should start a cult, because hey! Cults!


If Perry wins, invest in escapism :D

419 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:26:39pm

re: #379 engineer dog

i thought i'd take a little time off from my attempts to imitate an intelligent person...

A new book about tea party darling Sarah Palin has a salacious revelation about her sex life involving a well-known Miami sports star.

Image: o2tFe.gif

420 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:27:25pm

re: #395 imp_62

7. Got the Iraq withdrawal going.
--Partial win. Gitmo still open, withdrawal took longer to start than promised.

Have to disagree with you both. The current withdrawal timeline was organized in the last days of the Bush Admin (remember the shoe-throwing incident?), so Obama can't take credit for this one. Especially not when there's now talking of leaving 3-5,000 troops for "training."

Hate to play Devil's Advocate, but there it is.

421 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:27:45pm

Hmm. Maybe it's just from my connection.

Anyone else having trouble getting on Twitter?

422 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:27:53pm

re: #419 negativ

Image: o2tFe.gif

Can't we at least see the videotape before judging?

423 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:27:58pm

re: #400 Alouette

OK you can have compassion for them. Do you have compassion for everybody who claims to be a victim? And how do you express that compassion?

I have compassion for everyone to some degree, even if they don't claim to be a victim.

I'm not a pacifist or anything like that. I also understand why they had to shoot Old Yeller.

424 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:27:59pm

re: #417 jaunte

I have to get a new Poe's Law idol.

I like the idea that every statue should be of creepy whitey Jesus Christ or nothing, just monolithic giant Jesuses everywhere there used to be anything else

425 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:27:59pm

re: #401 Kid A

All I know is that Obama not only continued the war in Afghanistan, he escalated it, and that means he has innocent blood on his hands. Obama is nothing more than a politician. Period.

He did do that. He did do the thing that ought to have been done several years earlier. Cleaning up other people's messes is a bitch.

And he is a politician. By definition. I'm not saying the guy is the Messiah or something. He's a politician who got dealt a shitty hand and has gotten some good stuff done.

Was escalating in Afghanistan the right thing? I do not know. I thought so then, but I no longer know. But any armed conflict leaves innocent blood on your hands. There's no avoiding that. And while I am not big on resorting to force, I thought our initial foray into Afghanistan was right and moral. Even if (as it must) it resulted in innocent lives lost.

426 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:02pm

re: #401 Kid A

All I know is that Obama not only continued the war in Afghanistan, he escalated it, and that means he has innocent blood on his hands. Obama is nothing more than a politician. Period.

Since he campaigned on the fact that he would escalate in Afghanistan, why are you surprised, or angry about it?

427 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:03pm

re: #416 Charles

Look at that - Twitter seems to be completely offline. Haven't seen that happen before.

Anonymous?

428 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:07pm

re: #421 Charles

Hmm. Maybe it's just from my connection.

Anyone else having trouble getting on Twitter?

Just checked...the little tweet's still there.

429 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:09pm

re: #421 Charles

It's working ok here.

430 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:32pm

re: #410 WindUpBird

Well, shit obviously all he needs to do is make an infernal pact with the satanic robot in New York Harbor and sic Her on them

She shits bagels and lox, you know.

431 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:33pm

re: #419 negativ

That has to be regularly calibrated you know. ;)

432 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:48pm

re: #421 Charles

tweetdeck is giving me snake-eyes

433 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:28:51pm

re: #394 Buck

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #385 garhighway

i guess my little experiment with shamelessly wallowing in salacious and degrading rumors was not well received

434 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:29:21pm

re: #421 Charles

Hmm. Maybe it's just from my connection.

Anyone else having trouble getting on Twitter?

Gd broke your Twitter because you are a bisexual Gardasil lover.
//

435 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:29:27pm

re: #421 Charles

west coats backbone thingy, maybe?

436 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:29:36pm

re: #421 Charles

Hmm. Maybe it's just from my connection.

Anyone else having trouble getting on Twitter?

Timed out

437 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:29:42pm

re: #416 Charles

Look at that - Twitter seems to be completely offline. Haven't seen that happen before.

Sorry, man. I couldn't remember if I was supposed to cut the green wires and press the brown button, or cut the brown wires and press the green button.

438 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:29:45pm

re: #433 engineer dog

Meh. Can't bat 1000 all the time.

439 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:29:56pm

re: #430 garhighway

She shits bagels and lox, you know.

ahahahahahahaha

440 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:30:05pm

re: #433 engineer dog

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #385 garhighway

i guess my little experiment with shamelessly wallowing in salacious and degrading rumors was not well received

Well, I think it's great that Palin likes fucking. Even Todd's friends/business partners know about that.

441 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:30:09pm

timed out here too, weird to see that.

442 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:30:31pm

re: #433 engineer dog

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #385 garhighway

i guess my little experiment with shamelessly wallowing in salacious and degrading rumors was not well received

I don't see the big deal about what she did prior getting to married is.

The news about her sleeping around while married seems like the bigger part of the story.

443 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:30:31pm

Checked the iPhone with 3G - Twitter's fine there. Can't load it with my cable internet connection. Weird.

444 avanti  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:31:00pm

The next time you bitch about your sore back, or your allergies kicking in, watch this video:

Not a bad example of the life changing power of a mothers love for a couple of "throwaway" orphans either.

445 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:31:31pm

re: #403 WindUpBird

Statue of Liberty is a demonic idol! [Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]

Wow. Part of me wants him to get the nomination. The part of me that wants to watch airplane crashes on Youtube.

446 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:31:39pm

re: #411 Gus 802

Was out there with the windshield repair guy. Done. Looks good. 35 bucks.

OK, BBL folks.

I didn't read the rest of the thread.
Was the damage to your windshield due to head-desk with the windshield as a proxy for the desk?

447 blueraven  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:32:14pm

re: #436 Alouette

Timed out

For me too.

448 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:32:31pm

re: #442 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don't see the big deal about what she did prior getting to married is.

The news about her sleeping around while married seems like the bigger part of the story.

I'll agree with that. If it's true that she was screwing around during her marriage, that's one thing and I think worthy of scrutiny but her screwing a black guy who just happened to get some prominence in the NBA is as I said a lot of nothing to me.

449 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:32:35pm

BBL. I have heard rumours of a 12th Grade parent meeting or some such.

450 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:32:39pm

re: #445 Charleston Chew

Wow. Part of me wants him to get the nomination. The part of me that wants to watch airplane crashes on Youtube.

I want to see the crazy, I really do

451 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:33:44pm

re: #445 Charleston Chew

I want to see the mumbo-jumbo depravity America is capable of

I want to see snake-handlers and speaking in tongues on the house floor

Only Perry can make my dreams come true!

452 garhighway  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:33:44pm

Gotta go. If I don't make it to the drycleaners before they close, I'm in trouble.

453 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:33:50pm

re: #448 HappyWarrior

I'll agree with that. If it's true that she was screwing around during her marriage, that's one thing and I think worthy of scrutiny but her screwing a black guy who just happened to get some prominence in the NBA is as I said a lot of nothing to me.

Wait... he was black? STOP THE PRESSES!!!
///

454 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:34:15pm

re: #451 WindUpBird

I want to see the mumbo-jumbo depravity America is capable of

I want to see snake-handlers and speaking in tongues on the house floor

Only Perry can make my dreams come true!

Rick Perry is magical!

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:34:27pm

re: #433 engineer dog

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #385 garhighway

i guess my little experiment with shamelessly wallowing in salacious and degrading rumors was not well received

Eh. I don't like the woman, but I respect every single girl's right to get some while the getting is good.

456 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:34:30pm

re: #393 SanFranciscoZionist

It's also fairly uninteresting. I don't know what the journalistic ethics rules about this sort of thing are, exactly, but I'm guessing this isn't entirely unheard of.

voyeurism, plain and simple....
too bad people here dig that stuff

457 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:34:33pm

re: #423 Charleston Chew

I have compassion for everyone to some degree, even if they don't claim to be a victim.

I'm not a pacifist or anything like that. I also understand why they had to shoot Old Yeller.

They shot Old Yeller?

What a bloody crappy thing for the rabid right to do to a poor dog.

458 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:35:02pm

re: #454 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Perry is magical!

I'm imagining him in an M.Bison outfit, levitating

459 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:35:15pm

re: #421 Charles

Hmm. Maybe it's just from my connection.

Anyone else having trouble getting on Twitter?

The last thing in my twitter news feed was 32 minutes ago, which is an unusually long time.

When I tried to tweet, I get nothing, but a "sorry, something went wrong" message from twitter.

460 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:35:25pm

re: #443 Charles

Checked the iPhone with 3G - Twitter's fine there. Can't load it with my cable internet connection. Weird.

It's timing out from where I am too.

Error 118 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT): The operation timed out.

461 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:35:34pm

re: #458 WindUpBird

I'm imagining him in an M.Bison outfit, levitating

As someone who played Street Fighter back in the day that would amuse me very much.

462 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:35:51pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh. I don't like the woman, but I respect every single girl's right to get some while the getting is good.

That story humanizes palin more, as far as I'm concerned :D

463 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:36:12pm

re: #461 HappyWarrior

As someone who played Street Fighter back in the day that would amuse me very much.

seen the movie with Raul Julia as Bison? :D

464 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:36:17pm

re: #354 garhighway

Great point. By acquiescing to Jordanian rule they forfeited their right to object to Israeli rule.

That is not what happened. You didn't really watch.

Do you really think that there was a country called Palestine that Israelis were given to rule? The Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians”.

465 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:36:59pm

re: #453 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wait... he was black? STOP THE PRESSES!!!
///

I think that's actually the most disappointing part, scandal-wise. If he were white, we could be gleefully speculating on whether he might be the oldest boy's father, but that seems self-evidently untrue.

466 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:37:53pm

re: #443 Charles

Checked the iPhone with 3G - Twitter's fine there. Can't load it with my cable internet connection. Weird.

DNS problem with your ISP? Try Google's 8.8.8.8 or OpenDNS 208.67.222.222

467 shutdown  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:38:12pm

re: #354 garhighway

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

468 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:38:17pm

re: #463 WindUpBird

seen the movie with Raul Julia as Bison? :D

Yeah when I was like 7-8 years old haha. I remember it because I saw it after I went to the dentist and they numbed my gums and the movie just being really really bad. And then I saw Raul Julia in Kiss of the Spider Woman for a lit-film course I took at comm college. I was like OMG M Bison and the older brother from A History of Violence as lovers, how weird! (William Hurt FWIW who I recently saw play Captain Ahab).

469 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:38:19pm

re: #365 Gus 802

I'm back. I assume you are alluding to the old scourge of NIMBY?

470 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:38:51pm

re: #443 Charles

Checked the iPhone with 3G - Twitter's fine there. Can't load it with my cable internet connection. Weird.

[Link: downrightnow.com...] is reporting "Likely Service Disruption".

471 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:39:02pm

re: #445 Charleston Chew

Wow. Part of me wants him to get the nomination. The part of me that wants to watch airplane crashes on Youtube.

Unless he somehow self-destructs in the GOP primaries he will become the Great White Hope (in more than the figurative sense) for defeating Obama and the spin doctors will surround him with a veritable Texas twister of rationalizations and justifications for his foibles, inconsistencies and outright blunders, to the point that it will seem somehow unpatriotic to disagree with him...

472 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:40:07pm

re: #435 WindUpBird

west coats backbone thingy, maybe?

Web-based twitter is down for me in Boston, too.

473 Mardukhai  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:40:44pm

I've been involved in Jewish journalism my entire life, and I know the issues that divide the community.

There was only one issue, and it wasn't Orthodox voters, and it wasn't the economy -- it was the Administration's Middle East foreign policy.

The community believes that Obama doesn't respect them, and thinks that Israel is to blame for every that goes wrong in the Middle East. (The disastrous and pointless "White House Snub" of Netanyahu has never been forgotten or forgiven.)

Me, I'm a Democrat. In our house, we think Repubs are nutters. Most of our dinner conversations are about the latest craziness from Perry, Bachman and Company. But this issue is a serious failing that the White House brought on itself. The president should apologize, and move on.

474 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:41:12pm

Hey everyone! I just got unfriended on Facebook for the first time! One of my high-school friends, a teabagging bigot these days, unfriended me for asking "So what do all the other species know that we don't?" after he said humans were the only species with spirituality.

(the whole thing started with his top level post that Democrats were infected with progessives like Islam is infected with extremists...I called him on his bigotry a little too forcefully, I guess).

475 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:42:23pm

re: #474 darthstar

Hey everyone! I just got unfriended on Facebook for the first time! One of my high-school friends, a teabagging bigot these days, unfriended me for asking "So what do all the other species know that we don't?" after he said humans were the only species with spirituality.

(the whole thing started with his top level post that Democrats were infected with progessives like Islam is infected with extremists...I called him on his bigotry a little too forcefully, I guess).

How are you going to celebrate?

476 Mardukhai  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:42:33pm

Darthstar - never expect common sense from an ideologue.

477 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:42:35pm

re: #474 darthstar

Hey everyone! I just got unfriended on Facebook for the first time! One of my high-school friends, a teabagging bigot these days, unfriended me for asking "So what do all the other species know that we don't?" after he said humans were the only species with spirituality.

(the whole thing started with his top level post that Democrats were infected with progessives like Islam is infected with extremists...I called him on his bigotry a little too forcefully, I guess).

I believe that dogs have spirituality.

I'm also going to the grocery store.

478 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:43:42pm

Could someone define and describe spirituality to me? I have no idea what it is.

479 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:43:44pm

re: #475 b_sharp

How are you going to celebrate?

Sign the ex-friend's email address up for fetish porn mailing lists...

480 Mardukhai  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:44:10pm

re: #479 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww.

481 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:44:35pm

re: #479 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sign the ex-friend's email address up for fetish porn mailing lists...

You really know how to share a damn good time.

482 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:44:36pm

re: #475 b_sharp

How are you going to celebrate?

I sent him a private message:

He wrote:

[darth], to a degree I have appreciated your input, but not only do you appear to believe in communistic economic principals, you appear to favor communistic social principals as well. Bye.

So I wrote:

"communistic social principals?" Do you even know what that means? Sorry you unfriended me over a little religious humor...very Talibanesque (minus the beheading). Seriously, though...spreading hatred of Muslims on facebook for fun and calling yourself a Christian are not compatible. Jesus wasn't a bigot.

483 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:44:58pm

re: #478 b_sharp

Could someone define and describe spirituality to me? I have no idea what it is.

I don't either, but I'm sure dogs don't have it

484 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:45:24pm

re: #474 darthstar
...HERE'S A TISSUE....

485 Mardukhai  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:46:00pm

I guess that my comment #473 just passed everyone by. It was only my professional opinion based on a lifetime of experience on the subject...

Sigh...

486 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:46:02pm

re: #479 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sign the ex-friend's email address up for fetish porn mailing lists...

I did that once - back in the day when email was relatively new and you didn't need to confirm your email to get on a list...poor bastard got spammed for months before I mentioned in passing that I'd signed him up for a mailing list...he had no clue...the rest of us about peed ourselves laughing (he was very "sam the eagle" in his moral worldview)

487 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:47:28pm

re: #474 darthstar

Only thing better is unfriending them in person. Congrats.

488 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:47:30pm

re: #483 albusteve

I don't either, but I'm sure dogs don't have it

I think it's an imaginary trait that nobody has, but I'm possibly wrong. That's why I asked.

489 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:48:27pm

re: #468 HappyWarrior

Yeah when I was like 7-8 years old haha. I remember it because I saw it after I went to the dentist and they numbed my gums and the movie just being really really bad. And then I saw Raul Julia in Kiss of the Spider Woman for a lit-film course I took at comm college. I was like OMG M Bison and the older brother from A History of Violence as lovers, how weird! (William Hurt FWIW who I recently saw play Captain Ahab).

you youngun *_*

490 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:48:37pm

re: #485 Mardukhai

I guess that my comment #473 just passed everyone by. It was only my professional opinion based on a lifetime of experience on the subject...

Sigh...

What can we add or detract? Jewish people might not like Obama very much, but look at the alternatives: a buncha guys who support Israel only to the extent that they need it in order to precipitate Armageddon and bring about the Second Coming?

491 darthstar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:48:56pm

re: #473 Mardukhai

The president should apologize, and move on.

Apologize? It wasn't his dick that got tweeted. A conservative group of people elected a conservative congressman.

492 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:50:38pm

re: #487 Amory Blaine

Only thing better is unfriending them in person. Congrats.

With only a few exceptions, I restrict my FB friends to people I know from real life (TM)wish to stay in real-life contact with, and not just old acquaintances I am likely no never see again. Keeps my list short (less than 100 "friends") but nobody I am likely to "de-friend" over a political/religious disagreement.

493 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:50:52pm

re: #474 darthstar

Hey everyone! I just got unfriended on Facebook for the first time! One of my high-school friends, a teabagging bigot these days, unfriended me for asking "So what do all the other species know that we don't?" after he said humans were the only species with spirituality.

(the whole thing started with his top level post that Democrats were infected with progessives like Islam is infected with extremists...I called him on his bigotry a little too forcefully, I guess).

one of the reasons I'll never have a facebook account is because I fear discovering that high school friends have turned into idiots

494 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:50:52pm

re: #490 ralphieboy

What can we add or detract? Jewish people might not like Obama very much, but look at the alternatives: a buncha guys who support Israel only to the extent that they need it in order to precipitate Armageddon and bring about the Second Coming?

I was going to but I thought about it twice (once forwards and once backwards) and decided it wasn't worth the effort.

495 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:50:59pm

re: #477 SanFranciscoZionist

I believe that dogs have spirituality.

I'm also going to the grocery store.

I once saw a dog who could put his paws together in "prayer". Of course, he knew it would get him Snausages. I guess that counts as Prosperity theology.

496 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:51:39pm

re: #478 b_sharp

Could someone define and describe spirituality to me? I have no idea what it is.

497 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:51:47pm

re: #489 WindUpBird

you youngun *_*

Oh come on dude, there are sometimes where I don't get carded. But fair point I certainly do feel like a kid when I am at the bars and on the town.

498 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:52:57pm

re: #495 Charleston Chew

I once saw a dog who could put his paws together in "prayer". Of course, he knew it would get him Snausages. I guess that counts as Prosperity theology.

Or the canine equivalent of a "soup Protestant"

499 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:53:11pm

on the average, I'd say Americans have the mentality of a 12 year old

500 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:53:18pm

re: #495 Charleston Chew

I once saw a dog who could put his paws together in "prayer". Of course, he knew it would get him Snausages. I guess that counts as Prosperity theology.

For my Beagle, it is Cheerios. I swear, with enough Cheerios I could teach him to play Bridge.

501 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:53:24pm

re: #490 ralphieboy

I THOUGHT IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND..
...Throw Isreal under the bus and hasten Armageddon...?

502 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:53:41pm

re: #493 WindUpBird

one of the reasons I'll never have a facebook account is because I fear discovering that high school friends have turned into idiots

I signed up for Facebook just so I'd have something 'important' to ignore.

503 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:56:04pm

Gosh I've had a facebook account since 05 back when it was college only. I'll tell you this much for all its problems I like facebook. I've been able to build a strong relationship with one of my cousins over facebook. She's 19 years older than me so we didn't grow up together but her son is the same age as my kid brother. Also once facebook became open to the whole public, I got in touch with some old camp counselors and saw them play at a bar.

504 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:56:05pm

re: #502 b_sharp

I have a Facebook Acct...I've never seen it but my wife tells me I'm kicking ass at someplace named "Farmville"?

505 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:56:19pm

re: #496 Charleston Chew

[Video]

re: #496 Charleston Chew

[Video]

Oh.
My.
Glod.

506 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:57:33pm

Twitter went down while I was working on this Page. It's down here, anyway. Tweetdeck hasn't updated for almost an hour.

507 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:57:51pm

re: #499 albusteve

on the average, I'd say Americans have the mentality of a 12 year old

Disagree: but the loud ones, the ones who do have the mentality of a teenager, are the ones who garner an undue share of attention, which in the current media landscape bestows them with a corresponding degree of credibility, and that has allowed them to hijack an entire political party that does not have the resolve or the nerve to tell them to sit down and shut the f*ck up.

508 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:58:13pm

re: #490 ralphieboy

a buncha guys who support Israel only to the extent that they need it in order to precipitate Armageddon and bring about the Second Coming?

That is simply NOT true. It really is a horrible accusation of conservatives.

Frankly I see much more antisemitism coming from the left, and my Christian conservative friends are very sincere in their support of Israel.

509 Mardukhai  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:58:33pm

re: #491 darthstar

Apologize for a 43 minute, relentless list of non-negotiable demands delivered by phone by Hilary Clinton (who should have resigned rather than be part of it. Apologize for inviting Netanyahu to the White House for a meeting, but then let him stew for an alone in a room.

These were pointless insults. They didn't advance US national interests, and alienated the Jewish community.

The President should move on. He needs all the help he can get.

510 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 2:59:29pm

re: #504 reloadingisnotahobby

I have a Facebook Acct...I've never seen it but my wife tells me I'm kicking ass at someplace named "Farmville"?

Psychic powers are cool.

511 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:00:56pm

BBL.

512 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:01:19pm

re: #505 b_sharp

re: #496 Charleston Chew

Oh.
My.
Glod.

Bloody Kenobi and his fricking Alzheimer's.

513 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:01:38pm

re: #508 Buck

Bullshit. Living in Colorado Springs with the Christian Taliban, they do think this way.

There is probably about the same amount of antisemitism in both America, and among non-immigrant Europeans. It's just different. Ours is much more hidden than in Europe.

514 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:02:00pm

re: #379 engineer dog

i thought i'd take a little time off from my attempts to imitate an intelligent person...

A new book about tea party darling Sarah Palin has a salacious revelation about her sex life involving a well-known Miami sports star.

According to The National Enquirer, which obtained an advance copy of a book about Palin by investigative writer Joe McGinniss — Palin and former Miami Heat player Glen Rice had a one-night tryst back in 1987.

At the time, the former Alaska governor, now 47, was single, just out of college and working as a sports reporter at Anchorage TV station KTUU.

Rice, 44, who lives in Coral Gables, was a promising junior basketball player at the University of Michigan.

Their encounter occurred while Rice was in Anchorage attending a basketball tournament and Palin apparently covered the event. Months later, in 1988, Palin eloped with her high school sweetheart Todd Palin. The two are still married.

Quoting from the book, the tabloid said that at the time, the 23-year-old Palin had a “fetish” about black men.

re: #385 garhighway

I think this sort of stuff is out of bounds. What she did in 1987 is no one's business.

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, let me see. She was single, he was single, and they had sex. Now he's a retired athlete, and she's a Tea Party icon.

Is there some reason I should care about this? He's assuredly not Track's father.

re: #393 SanFranciscoZionist

It's also fairly uninteresting. I don't know what the journalistic ethics rules about this sort of thing are, exactly, but I'm guessing this isn't entirely unheard of.

If this is true, the only issues against Palin seem to be the "family values" hypocrisy typical of modern TPGOP "conservatives" and the fact that a bunch of those same "conservatives" would go absolute batshit insane at the idea that Palin, the ultimate wet dream of TPer males who think with their dicks, was "savaged" by a black basketball player (never mind that the scuttlebutt is that she was the aggressor).

Meanwhile, in reality, many sane, reasonable people (of which I consider myself to be one) don't give two shits about it all.

515 laZardo  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:02:21pm

So I'm watching MLP:FiM while eating pizza.

Is this pathetic? (y/n)

516 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:02:52pm

re: #508 Buck

That is simply NOT true. It really is a horrible accusation of conservatives.

Frankly I see much more antisemitism coming from the left, and my Christian conservative friends are very sincere in their support of Israel.

Yes, it was a bit of a blanket statement but

1) Anti-Israeli does not automatically mean Anti-Semitic. Pro-Israeli likewise does not automatically entail support or even respect for Judaism.

2) look closely at some of the people Rick Perry associates with and find out their expressed views on the Second Coming and what is going to happen to the Jews who do not convert...

517 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:03:37pm

re: #507 ralphieboy

Disagree: but the loud ones, the ones who do have the mentality of a teenager, are the ones who garner an undue share of attention, which in the current media landscape bestows them with a corresponding degree of credibility, and that has allowed them to hijack an entire political party that does not have the resolve or the nerve to tell them to sit down and shut the f*ck up.

I could care less about political parties....when your face is buried on a blog, tweeting, Facebooking, iPodding all day....it's apparent that Americans are becoming more and more narcissistic, like a preteen concerned with their popularity

518 Mardukhai  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:03:52pm

re: #513 ProLifeLiberal

Read The Nation, or Salon. You'll get a nice healthy overdose of thinly disguised anti-Semitism, much of it written by tools with Jewish last names.

519 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:03:58pm

re: #508 Buck

That is simply NOT true. It really is a horrible accusation of conservatives.

Frankly I see much more antisemitism coming from the left, and my Christian conservative friends are very sincere in their support of Israel.

It's a horrible accusation that a leading contender for president is palling around with people who think the Statue of Liberty is satanic, hahahahah


just a terrible accusation, we should all be ashamed of ourselves, have we no decency

520 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:04:00pm

re: #516 ralphieboy

And also those like me who don't have an issue with Israel, but certainly have a portfolio full of issues about one of the parties over there.

521 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:04:57pm

re: #514 talon_262

Meanwhile, in reality, many sane, reasonable people (of which I consider myself to be one) don't give two shits about it all.

and had she not made such an effort to become a nationally prominent public figure, nobody outside Wasilla would care, either...

522 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:05:09pm

re: #515 laZardo

So I'm watching MLP:FiM while eating pizza.

Is this pathetic? (y/n)

That show is taking over the entire internet

(my favorite's Twilight Sparkle)

523 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:06:09pm

re: #516 ralphieboy

views on the Second Coming and what is going to happen to the Jews who do not convert.

Yes, they have concern for my soul. That is NOT the same thing as only supporting Israel to hurry up the second coming.

524 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:07:11pm

re: #517 albusteve

I could care less about political parties...when your face is buried on a blog, tweeting, Facebooking, iPodding all day...it's apparent that Americans are becoming more and more narcissistic, like a preteen concerned with their popularity

in defense of my narcissism, it is making me a living :D

525 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:07:19pm

re: #517 albusteve

I could care less about political parties...when your face is buried on a blog, tweeting, Facebooking, iPodding all day...it's apparent that Americans are becoming more and more narcissistic, like a preteen concerned with their popularity

This is the point, people will say or blog anything to get attention, and in an age of declining journalistic standards, the more sensational and polemic the statement, the more responses it garners, and sheer volume of hits/tweets has become the standard of success and even constitutes a news item of its own

526 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:07:37pm

re: #519 WindUpBird

You are mixing up your accusations, but if we are back to being allowed to talk about "palling around with people",,,

527 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:07:58pm

re: #525 ralphieboy

This is the point, people will say or blog anything to get attention, and in an age of declining journalistic standards, the more sensational and polemic the statement, the more responses it garners, and sheer volume of hits/tweets has become the standard of success and even constitutes a news item of its own

I blame google analytics

528 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:08:05pm

re: #499 albusteve

on the average, I'd say Americans have the mentality of a 12 year old

With ADD.

"Well yeah, we shouldn't have gone into Iraq but OHHH, SHINY THING!"

529 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:08:13pm

re: #523 Buck

Yeah, you're wrong on that one. Look at the religious guys supporting Perry. And I remember talking to (now former) friends in COS who thought this way.

Face it, it's a significant, if not the, predominant strain in Right-Wing Christian Thought.

530 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:08:32pm

re: #526 Buck

You are mixing up your accusations, but if we are back to being allowed to talk about "palling around with people",,,

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

531 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:09:12pm

re: #516 ralphieboy

Anti-Israeli does not automatically mean Anti-Semitic.

We disagree again.

532 laZardo  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:09:56pm

re: #522 WindUpBird

That show is taking over the entire internet

(my favorite's Twilight Sparkle)

I firmly believe it is singlehandedly responsible for the degradation and corruption of our free society.

/i like psycho!pinkie

533 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:10:58pm

Tweedeck came back to life, but Twitter.com still won't connect.

534 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:11:00pm

re: #532 laZardo

I firmly believe it is singlehandedly responsible for the degradation and corruption of our free society.

/i like psycho!pinkie

We laugh, but I would not be fucking surprised to see some Xtian-right Republican waving their arms about it, Dan Quayle-style

535 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:11:14pm

re: #531 Buck

And this is what gives the gray area people ammunition.

Because of you, they believe they can go balls to the wall in terms of criticism, because any gripes about Israel's Policies are deemed Antisemitic in your dullard eyes.

536 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:12:01pm

re: #531 Buck

We disagree again.

Lemme be a bit more specific on that point: not "anti-Israeli" but rather "Not supporting and condoning everything the Israeli government does is not necessarily anti-Semitism"

537 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:12:01pm

re: #535 ProLifeLiberal

And this is what gives the gray area people ammunition.

Because of you, they believe they can go balls to the wall in terms of criticism, because any gripes about Israel's Policies are deemed Antisemitic in your dullard eyes.

He didn't say "Israel's Policies".

538 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:12:09pm

re: #515 laZardo

So I'm watching MLP:FiM while eating pizza.

Is this pathetic? (y/n)

N. Pathetic would be wearing a MLP:FiM t-shirt while doing so.

539 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:12:43pm

re: #537 Buck

He didn't say "Israel's Policies".

this is really what I come to LGF for

540 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:13:14pm

re: #537 Buck

He didn't say "Israel's Policies".

Seeing as much as you criticize Obama, that makes you anti-American.
I can play your silly games too!

541 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:13:40pm

re: #536 ralphieboy

Lemme be a bit more specific on that point: not "anti-Israeli" but rather "Not supporting and condoning everything the Israeli government does is not necessarily anti-Semitism

Shit the Israelis themselves don't agree with everything their government does. Why you ask? Because shocker Israelis are people with a wide variety of opinions and outlooks.

542 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:13:46pm

re: #537 Buck

He didn't say "Israel's Policies".

said it now, see #536.

543 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:14:27pm

re: #540 Varek Raith

Ahh, I criticize his policies, but yes I have been accused of being a racist, a Nazi, and an antisemite.

544 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:15:25pm

re: #543 Buck

Ahh, I criticize his policies, but yes I have been accused of being a racist, a Nazi, and an antisemite.

I don't consider you any of those things.
Just a hyper-partisan R.

545 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:15:30pm

re: #542 ralphieboy

said it

And that is very different.

546 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:15:35pm

re: #543 Buck

Ahh, I criticize his policies, but yes I have been accused of being a racist, a Nazi, and an antisemite.

No, actually this is what I come to LGF for

547 laZardo  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:15:54pm

re: #538 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

N. Pathetic would be wearing a MLP:FiM t-shirt while doing so.

...

;_;
/

548 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:16:00pm

re: #543 Buck

Ahh, I criticize his policies, but yes I have been accused of being a racist, a Nazi, and an antisemite.

Who accused you of being a Nazi?

549 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:16:18pm

re: #533 wrenchwench

Tweedeck came back to life, but Twitter.com still won't connect.

what? twitterdeedee and tweedeckdeedum?

550 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:16:23pm

re: #540 Varek Raith

Seeing as much as you criticize Obama, that makes you anti-American.
I can play your silly games too!

I was called a racist for my curiosity regarding BO's college days...so yeah, anything is possible

551 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:16:25pm

re: #508 Buck

That is simply NOT true. It really is a horrible accusation of conservatives.

Frankly I see much more antisemitism coming from the left, and my Christian conservative friends are very sincere in their support of Israel.

It's real. I have a sister who belongs to a Fundamentalist church out in PA, and she told me point-blank that her church often talks about the role of Jews in the return of Jesus.

What strain of Christianity do your friends belong to? Any of them in a whack-job Fox-News believing church like my sister is?

552 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:17:05pm

re: #545 Buck

And that is very different.

this is the difference between a discussion and a shouting match. I was unclear in making my point and you called me on it, so I clarified my position.

Can we get back to shouting now?

553 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:18:03pm

re: #548 BigPapa

I haven't but I have made the allegation that he is dull.

554 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:18:09pm

re: #548 BigPapa

Who accused you of being a Nazi?

I don't remember which lizard, but my punctuation of jew with a lower case j reminded him of the white supremists....

So he asked.

555 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:18:48pm

re: #554 Buck

I don't remember which lizard, but my punctuation of jew with a lower case j reminded him of the white supremists...

So he asked.

jesus christ...

556 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:19:12pm

re: #553 ProLifeLiberal

I haven't but I have made the allegation that he is dull.

and you are....exciting, by contrast?

557 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:20:04pm

re: #556 albusteve

Considering the fact that I am mildly unstable because a mental disorder, I would say yes in a way.

I meant it another way though.

558 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:20:24pm

You've now been called Jesus Christ too!

559 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:20:32pm

re: #555 ralphieboy

jesus christ...

I was called a bigot for using BO, instead of BHO....true

560 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:08pm

re: #559 albusteve

I was called a bigot for using BO, instead of BHO...true

Bigot! :)

561 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:09pm

re: #559 albusteve

To be fair, you should use BHO, because BO has other connotations. :P

562 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:20pm

re: #559 albusteve

I was called a bigot for using BO, instead of BHO...true

And you aren't any of those things.
You're just a bit grumpy.
:)

563 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:26pm

Jesus H Christ

564 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:38pm

re: #559 albusteve

I was called a bigot for using BO, instead of BHO...true

You BO-got!

565 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:52pm

re: #559 albusteve

I was called a bigot for using BO, instead of BHO...true

You skipped 'H for Hussein'? That'll get you either way.

566 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:52pm

re: #561 ProLifeLiberal

To be fair, you should use BHO, because BO has other connotations. :P

Yeah, a sucky baseball team!
/

567 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:21:54pm

re: #547 laZardo

...

;_;
/

*pat pat, pat pat* There there, there there. We all have our guilty pleasures.

/

568 Kragar  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:22:25pm

re: #563 ralphieboy

Jesus H Christ

Does the H stand for Hussein?

569 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:22:33pm

Before HBO I spent all my time in front of my train set watch HO...

570 bratwurst  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:22:41pm

Here is something for those of you who have to live with the overwhleming burden of being called names on the internets:

Image: 07a2bbfd_worlds-smallest-violin.jpeg

571 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:22:45pm

re: #566 Varek Raith

Yeah, a sucky baseball team!
/

Don't remind me dude. Long suffering Orioles fan here.

572 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:23:02pm

re: #549 engineer dog

what? twitterdeedee and tweedeckdeedum?

Tweetdeck is the best way to view your Twitter feed. Do you Tweet?

573 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:23:58pm

re: #568 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does the H stand for Hussein?

I believe his Aramaic name was Jeshua Ha-Nostri, so I guess his homies woulda called him "Ha-Dawg"

574 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:24:20pm

re: #571 HappyWarrior

Don't remind me dude. Long suffering Orioles fan here.

I got a chance to talk to Jim Trabor a few weeks ago

575 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:25:08pm

re: #562 Varek Raith

And you aren't any of those things.
You're just a bit grumpy.
:)

I just laugh it off

576 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:25:38pm

re: #574 HoosierHoops

I got a chance to talk to Jim Trabor a few weeks ago

Cool stuff. I got Ripken's autograph a few years back. Didn't have a camera with me so no pic but gosh I was feeling like a kid again since that was something I had wanted to get from the first time I saw him play.

577 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:27:17pm

Twitter.com is back.

578 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:27:51pm

re: #568 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does the H stand for Hussein?

no, Hellboy...
uh oh

579 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:28:01pm

re: #577 wrenchwench

Twitter.com is back.

My will to live is restored.

581 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:29:59pm
582 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:30:07pm

re: #579 Decatur Deb

My will to live is restored.

heh...considering a massive, country wide nervous breakdown loomed

583 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:30:24pm

OT:

Just got this in the mail, potentially the next non-troversy:

Look at the title, then listen to his words.

584 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:30:29pm

re: #580 jaunte

This is goddamn ridiculous.

Hey Buck, these are your friends in the US.

585 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:33:14pm

re: #583 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Just got this in the mail, potentially the next non-troversy:

[Video]Look at the title, then listen to his words.

Judging by the Redstate and Big Gov tags, it's guaranteed to be the next nontroversy.

586 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:33:59pm

re: #583 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Just got this in the mail, potentially the next non-troversy:

[Video]Look at the title, then listen to his words.

stir the pot....got anything more substantial?

587 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:35:08pm

re: #580 jaunte

Children’s book too hot for U.S. publishers warmly received in Canada

Last I heard, the British film on Darwin could not find a US distributor, either. It is just such a hot-button topic that a lot of companies refuse to touch it because it would be more trouble than it was worth in a purely economic sense

.

I remember seeing a British science-fiction book about how Bad Aliens invaded the Earth and the only way to stop them was to have the Good Aliens give ex-SS officers a rejuvenation serum and send them off to fight and save the planet.

I saw that there was no ideology behind the decision to publish the book, just a business decision that it would probably sell enough copies to warrant the costs of publishing and distributing it.

But a book like that would never be able to be published in Germany because no publisher would risk the sh*tstorm of negative publicity that would accompany it.

588 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:35:17pm

re: #583 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Just got this in the mail, potentially the next non-troversy:

[Video]Look at the title, then listen to his words.

THey're going to complain next that Obama wants to get a bill passed. The gall of this man, he thinks he's president!

589 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:36:18pm

Science is a really hot topic in the US.

Some people are questioning science

590 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:36:22pm

re: #588 HappyWarrior

THey're going to complain next that Obama wants to get a bill passed. The gall of this man, he thinks he's president!

no, he thinks he's Tiger Woods...get real

591 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:37:46pm

re: #590 albusteve

no, he thinks he's Tiger Woods...get real

Come on man, they're acting outraged that he was stumping over this. It's just politics as theater crap. I am sorry but I am just sick of everything Obama does being whined about by hte conservative blogs. He gets Bin Laden, they whine that he was too arrogant. The list goes on.

592 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:39:07pm

re: #583 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Expanded remarks:

“If you love me, you’ve got to help me pass this bill!” Obama told a man in the crowd who shouted out his admiration for the president.

“Every single one of you can help make this bill a reality by telling Congress to pass this bill,” Obama said, assigning the students some additional homework. “I need you to lift your voice. Make it heard. You can call. You can email. You can tweet. You can fax. You can Facebook. You can visit. You can write a letter — when was the last time you did that? Tell your congressperson that the time for partisanship and politics is over. Now is not the time for it. The time for gridlock and games is over. The time for action is now.”
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

593 AK-47%  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:39:26pm

re: #589 BigPapa

Science is a really hot topic in the US.

Some people are questioning science

Questioning it is fine and healthy, rejecting it outright is dangerous...

But a lot of people do not understand enough about what science is and how it works to question it properly, they are just taught to be hostile toward anything that conflicts with their ideology and religion.

594 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:40:30pm

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
Perry's going after Bachmann for her claim that hte HPV vaccine causes mental retardation. Not a fan of him at all but good.

595 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:40:43pm

re: #592 jaunte

Expanded remarks:

A president, calling on voters to get off their asses and make their voices heard? Jeez, the nerve of that guy!

///

596 albusteve  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:41:16pm

re: #591 HappyWarrior

Come on man, they're acting outraged that he was stumping over this. It's just politics as theater crap. I am sorry but I am just sick of everything Obama does being whined about by hte conservative blogs. He gets Bin Laden, they whine that he was too arrogant. The list goes on.

take a load off...get used to it

597 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:42:40pm

re: #583 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Just got this in the mail, potentially the next non-troversy:

[Video]Look at the title, then listen to his words.

"How dare he be good-natured and personable!

And how dare he improvise! How can we blather TELEPROMPTER!! when he improvises!"

598 Meitantei  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:43:36pm

re: #514 talon_262

I'll admit I am REALLY skeptical about the Glen Rice - Sarah Palin claims. I just am. I mean, Glen Rice was a professional athlete, and a good one too. He's probably slept with tons of women. How's he going to remember some dumb woman from almost 15 years ago? It's just a bit strange, and that's all I really think about it.

599 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:45:19pm

re: #593 ralphieboy

Questioning it is fine and healthy, rejecting it outright is dangerous...

But a lot of people do not understand enough about what science is and how it works to question it properly, they are just taught to be hostile toward anything that conflicts with their ideology and religion.

I would further distill that as 'science is questioning.'

Nobody seems to know how it works, therefore, they are rejecting it outright. If you are going to reject 'the' science of something, you must do so with alternate science: speculation and/or reasoning supported by data or facts.

600 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:46:23pm

re: #598 Meitantei

I'll admit I am REALLY skeptical about the Glen Rice - Sarah Palin claims. I just am. I mean, Glen Rice was a professional athlete, and a good one too. He's probably slept with tons of women. How's he going to remember some dumb woman from almost 15 years ago? It's just a bit strange, and that's all I really think about it.

Glen Rice confirmed the story.. So there you go...You don't remember a cute sports reporter you bedded in Alaska? I would..

601 jaunte  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:46:24pm

re: #599 BigPapa

You're obviously taking grant money from Big Data.

602 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:48:19pm

re: #600 HoosierHoops

Glen Rice confirmed the story.. So there you go...You don't remember a cute sports reporter you bedded in Alaska? I would..

If even true, it's too sleazy for the Dems to touch. The Klan types can have it for their email fwds and whispering campaigns.

603 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:48:46pm

re: #600 HoosierHoops

Glen Rice confirmed the story.. So there you go...You don't remember a cute sports reporter you bedded in Alaska? I would..

It's the Alaska part that makes me think he would. How often do they have basketball tournaments in Alaska anyhow? I really don't care one way or the other who she bedded. Not my business. Sure, it shows her to be a hypocrite with all the moralizing crap she does but this happened 25 years ago nearly.

604 Meitantei  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:50:01pm

re: #600 HoosierHoops

I guess. She probably looked better then than she does now, and that it's in a out of the way location like Alaska makes it more plausible. Whatever.

And math fail on my part.

605 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:50:18pm

re: #601 jaunte

You're obviously taking grant money from Big Data.

Ha ha, thread weenar.

606 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:50:22pm

re: #600 HoosierHoops

Glen Rice confirmed the story.. So there you go...You don't remember a cute sports reporter you bedded in Alaska? I would..

My thoughts?
Who cares.
:)

607 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:51:11pm

re: #606 Varek Raith

I'm thinking good revenge for besmirching the character of most of us Liberals.

608 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:51:46pm

re: #598 Meitantei

I'll admit I am REALLY skeptical about the Glen Rice - Sarah Palin claims. I just am. I mean, Glen Rice was a professional athlete, and a good one too. He's probably slept with tons of women. How's he going to remember some dumb woman from almost 15 years ago? It's just a bit strange, and that's all I really think about it.

He was a college kid at the time, playing for Michigan at a tourney in Alaska.

If you were a college kid, all the way over on the other side of the country, and you got picked up by a TV reporter, you mean to tell me you wouldn't remember that?

609 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:51:58pm

re: #607 ProLifeLiberal

I'm thinking good revenge for besmirching the character of most of us Liberals.

WHO NEEDS FRUIT FLY RESEARCH?!?!

610 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:53:01pm

Well. Life is short but real wide. I just agreed to do a video and still photo shoot for the ACLU at a local annual fundraiser/awards event here in Los Angeles. Gore Vidal is getting an award.

Just volunteering because they did photographers here in the US a big favor by supporting public photography rights. (Like taping a cop in public while making an arrest)I may not agree with them all the time but why let that get in the way?

611 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:53:53pm

re: #610 Rightwingconspirator

Well. Life is short but real wide. I just agreed to do a video and still photo shoot for the ACLU at a local annual fundraiser/awards event here in Los Angeles. Gore Vidal is getting an award.

Just volunteering because they did photographers here in the US a big favor by supporting public photography rights. (Like taping a cop in public while making an arrest)I may not agree with them all the time but why let that get in the way?

RINO!
/
Good on ya.
:)

612 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:53:58pm

Just a thought, though - the stuff in the McGinness book may be the real reason why she didn't get into the presidential race.

Even if none of it is true, she'd have to spend so much time defending herself that she wouldn't have lasted very long as a candidate.

613 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:54:12pm

re: #610 Rightwingconspirator

Well. Life is short but real wide. I just agreed to do a video and still photo shoot for the ACLU at a local annual fundraiser/awards event here in Los Angeles. Gore Vidal is getting an award.

Just volunteering because they did photographers here in the US a big favor by supporting public photography rights. (Like taping a cop in public while making an arrest)I may not agree with them all the time but why let that get in the way?

Nobody can agree with the ACLU most of the time--they're just sort of indispensable.

614 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 3:58:56pm

re: #612 makeitstop

Just a thought, though - the stuff in the McGinness book may be the real reason why she didn't get into the presidential race.

Even if none of it is true, she'd have to spend so much time defending herself that she wouldn't have lasted very long as a candidate.

I saw a blurb that said she and Todd were doing cocaine too. I really don't care honest one way or the other. I think it confirms what I've long felt about her that she's a hypocrite but it would bother more if she were doing it while an elected official and then decrying it.

615 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:03:55pm

re: #613 Decatur Deb

Nobody can agree with the ACLU most of the time--they're just sort of indispensable.

That is so well said. Now I maybe after the event can get an answer to a question Obdicut and I discussed one day at length-Would the ACLU prefer an unarmed (no guns) police patrol force?

616 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:06:44pm

Oh lord, this is how ridiculous TV has gotten. Tonight's episode of Deadliest Warrior will feature a match-up that will be so pointless, I'm left wondering if they've just run out of ideas:

Vampire vs. Zombie.

617 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:07:39pm

What do I think about this Palin Todd cocaine Rice story?

This, every time I hear her talk.

618 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:08:26pm

re: #615 Rightwingconspirator

That is so well said. Now I maybe after the event can get an answer to a question Obdicut and I discussed one day at length-Would the ACLU prefer an unarmed (no guns) police patrol force?

Ask two who are wearing flowers, two who are not wearing flowers, and two who are eating flowers.

619 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:09:13pm

re: #616 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Vampire vs. Zombie.

I'm still wondering if vampires can get erections. They seem sorta hot and all sexy and stuff, but what about erections?

Regards,
Not Sure in Nebraska

620 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:12:52pm

re: #616 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A Deadliest Warrior video game really ought to be made

621 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:13:11pm

re: #130 Buck

Democratic whites and asians voted against prop 8 too. As did people of all races, really.

What the holy hell did you single out Hispanics and blacks?

622 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:14:19pm

re: #616 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Twilight Vampire vs. Coppola Vampire v. Anne Rice Vampire?

Well, oddly enough, the Twilight vampire wins - can handle sun (but would sparkle), but can't fly. Can be killed by dismembering and burning; stakes optional. Can read minds and can even inflict pain with a word.

Zombies? Even the most active zombie would be no match for a vampire of any variety. ///

623 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:14:23pm

re: #620 WindUpBird

A Deadliest Warrior video game really ought to be made

Has been.

624 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:14:24pm

re: #615 Rightwingconspirator

That is so well said. Now I maybe after the event can get an answer to a question Obdicut and I discussed one day at length-Would the ACLU prefer an unarmed (no guns) police patrol force?

I don't think you're going to find anyone who's willing to speak for the entire ACLU on the subject.

And since it's not a subject that involves constitutional rights, I doubt it'll really be that interesting to them.

625 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:16:27pm

re: #622 lawhawk

Unfortunately, Vampire: The Masquerade Vampire wins above all, as long as they've got enough points in a discipline.

And for anyone who ever suffered through a game of it, I present:

The Art of Vampire, the Masquerade

In other news, I made 150 calls and got 6 people signed up to have a meeting with their state senator. The funniest was one lady who asked "They let you do that?"

626 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:16:28pm

re: #624 Obdicut

I don't think you're going to find anyone who's willing to speak for the entire ACLU on the subject.

And since it's not a subject that involves constitutional rights, I doubt it'll really be that interesting to them.

They do publish positions on their website, though I don't remember one on Bobbyfying the LAPD.

627 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:17:29pm

re: #626 Decatur Deb

They've never published anything, ever, on taking weapons away from police. They have published, repeatedly, urging restraint in the use of weapons, restraint and training in tasers, not using tasers as though they carry no health risks, etc. etc. etc.

But they've never even shown the slightest hint of suggesting that policemen be disarmed.

628 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:17:37pm

re: #622 lawhawk

Twilight Vampire vs. Coppola Vampire v. Anne Rice Vampire?

Well, oddly enough, the Twilight vampire wins - can handle sun (but would sparkle), but can't fly. Can be killed by dismembering and burning; stakes optional. Can read minds and can even inflict pain with a word.

Zombies? Even the most active zombie would be no match for a vampire of any variety. ///

Thing is, you rarely see only one zombie in any film. The only way you see one is if you're isolated in the middle of nowhere. Otherwise, you're talking dozens at least. And while the zombies may not see vampires as food, they both share a common victim/food source. And the zombies not only multiply faster, but they have no need to rest or worry about the traditional vulnerabilities of a vampire.

629 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:20:05pm

re: #628 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Depends which zombie's you're talking about. Some traditions have zombies that die in sunlight too.

I choose the Wendigo.

Image: Wendigo.jpg

Image: Wendigo_by_shorty_antics_27.png

630 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:26:48pm

re: #629 Obdicut

Depends which zombie's you're talking about. Some traditions have zombies that die in sunlight too.

I choose the Wendigo.

Image: Wendigo.jpg

Image: Wendigo_by_shorty_antics_27.png

Romero-style zombies.

631 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:27:12pm

re: #624 Obdicut

Well I'll be talking to the people at the local chapter, and they have had quite some deep discussions with LAPD and LA Sheriff dept about taser guns. It's worth asking whatever they have to say. Getting to know the organization a bit better is going to be a learning experience for me. Obviously a networking moment.

The main thing is do a good job for them Sunday. My nic is blue for any local lizards that might want to go to their website and buy a ticket to go or support them. I'll send links.

632 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:32:21pm

re: #490 ralphieboy

What can we add or detract? Jewish people might not like Obama very much, but look at the alternatives: a buncha guys who support Israel only to the extent that they need it in order to precipitate Armageddon and bring about the Second Coming?

Well, 78% of the Jewish people who voted in America voted for Obama in 2008, and I do not expect that number to drop markedly.

633 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:36:00pm

re: #490 ralphieboy

What can we add or detract? Jewish people might not like Obama very much, but look at the alternatives: a buncha guys who support Israel only to the extent that they need it in order to precipitate Armageddon and bring about the Second Coming?

People who are inclined to believe that Obama hates Israel and Jews are people who were already inclined not to like him because he's black and his middle name is Hussein and they think he's a secret Muslims with Muslim sympathies. They are bigots. Period. The end.

634 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:36:30pm

re: #627 Obdicut
re: #627 Obdicut

They've never published anything, ever, on taking weapons away from police. They have published, repeatedly, urging restraint in the use of weapons, restraint and training in tasers, not using tasers as though they carry no health risks, etc. etc. etc.

But they've never even shown the slightest hint of suggesting that policemen be disarmed.

This moratorium demand comes really close. And it unfairly fails to compare firearm lethality with the less lethal Taser. Which BTW is described in training by L.E. as less lethal not non lethal. Another overstatement on their part.

Given the consistent questioning they have had of every weapon ever wielded in an arrest one may fairly surmise they have a strong skepticism about use of force. And they did advocate switching from the big flashlight to little tiny flashlights after a bad incident of excess force with the flashlight. So quite often when a weapon is misused, they try to get it removed from service pending study, or "training". Which in extremis is a clerical moratorium.

635 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:36:53pm

re: #514 talon_262

re: #385 garhighway

re: #392 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #393 SanFranciscoZionist

If this is true, the only issues against Palin seem to be the "family values" hypocrisy typical of modern TPGOP "conservatives" and the fact that a bunch of those same "conservatives" would go absolute batshit insane at the idea that Palin, the ultimate wet dream of TPer males who think with their dicks, was "savaged" by a black basketball player (never mind that the scuttlebutt is that she was the aggressor).

Meanwhile, in reality, many sane, reasonable people (of which I consider myself to be one) don't give two shits about it all.

No one ever wins the attempt to make a whole wing of American politics reconcile their attitudes on sexuality as a whole. I'll go after individual hypocrites (Bill O'Reilly and his differing standards for Bristol Palin and Jamie Lynn Spears still pisses me off), but beyond that, meh.

636 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:39:14pm

re: #516 ralphieboy

Yes, it was a bit of a blanket statement but

1) Anti-Israeli does not automatically mean Anti-Semitic. Pro-Israeli likewise does not automatically entail support or even respect for Judaism.

2) look closely at some of the people Rick Perry associates with and find out their expressed views on the Second Coming and what is going to happen to the Jews who do not convert...

Of what other nation is is considered reasonable to say that people are 'anti' it, and that this is a reasonable stance to take?

637 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:41:00pm

re: #636 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, lots of people are anti-US, and lots of people are anti-British, and plenty of people are anti-China. They're all broad brushes, but often understandable, especially if you are, say, a person who grew up in a south american country where the US sponsored right-wing death squads.

638 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:41:22pm

re: #568 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does the H stand for Hussein?

The mystery may have been solved.

639 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:43:43pm

re: #619 BigPapa

I'm still wondering if vampires can get erections. They seem sorta hot and all sexy and stuff, but what about erections?

Regards,
Not Sure in Nebraska

No blood pressure, no erection.

Then again, one would think, no blood pressure, no brain function, so who the hell knows?

640 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:45:07pm

re: #634 Rightwingconspirator

No, that moratorium comes absolutely nowhere close and I have no idea why you think it does. Did they call for a moratorium on officer's being armed with real guns? no. The entire focus of that was on stun guns. That's all.

Given the consistent questioning they have had of every weapon ever wielded in an arrest one may fairly surmise they have a strong skepticism about use of force.

So do I. So do, I hope, you.

So quite often when a weapon is misused, they try to get it removed from service pending study, or "training". Which in extremis is a clerical moratorium.

Do you think it's ever possible that police actually need training?

641 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:45:46pm

re: #637 Obdicut

Oh, lots of people are anti-US, and lots of people are anti-British, and plenty of people are anti-China. They're all broad brushes, but often understandable, especially if you are, say, a person who grew up in a south american country where the US sponsored right-wing death squads.

Fair enough. In Israel's case, I am sensitive to it, because there is a considerable body of thought predicated on the notion that it should not exist as a nation.

642 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:47:21pm

re: #641 SanFranciscoZionist

Sure. And fuck anyone, especially Europeans, who condemn Israel for basically having been born in blood sweat and tears. So was every nation. It's totally goddamn moot.

But there's also the difficulty of distinguishing, as someone pointed out, between anti-Israel and anti-Israel's-current-government-and-policies.

643 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:50:59pm

re: #623 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Has been.

I should have known *_*

644 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:57:26pm

re: #557 ProLifeLiberal

Considering the fact that I am mildly unstable because a mental disorder, I would say yes in a way.

I meant it another way though.

Aren't mental disorders fun?

645 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:59:37pm

re: #572 wrenchwench

Tweetdeck is the best way to view your Twitter feed. Do you Tweet?

Wow, talk about invasive personal questions...

646 palomino  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:08:37pm

re: #130 Buck

I don't think you understand the factors at play in the same sex marriage issue. The voting cleavage is more generational than it is partisan. Thus you find a lot of old Dems voting against gay marriage, while quite a few young gopers vote for it. It's simply a matter of time, as the old die out, before most of the country accepts gay marriage as normal, or at least tolerable. Even Miss. will have it someday (though probably not in this century).

647 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:10:05pm

re: #615 Rightwingconspirator

That is so well said. Now I maybe after the event can get an answer to a question Obdicut and I discussed one day at length-Would the ACLU prefer an unarmed (no guns) police patrol force?

The ACLU will likely tell you those kind of opinions are not part of its work.

648 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:10:48pm

re: #619 BigPapa

I'm still wondering if vampires can get erections. They seem sorta hot and all sexy and stuff, but what about erections?

Regards,
Not Sure in Nebraska

No blood flow, no hard pecker.

649 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:11:35pm

re: #621 Obdicut

Democratic whites and asians voted against prop 8 too. As did people of all races, really.

What the holy hell did you single out Hispanics and blacks?

To stir the pot.

650 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:12:14pm

re: #646 palomino

The voting cleavage is more generational than it is partisan.

I love double/triple entendres as much as anybody, but I can't get my head around that. I want to like it really bad.... LOL.

651 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:13:48pm

re: #640 Obdicut

No, that moratorium comes absolutely nowhere close and I have no idea why you think it does. Did they call for a moratorium on officer's being armed with real guns? no. The entire focus of that was on stun guns. That's all.

So do I. So do, I hope, you.

Do you think it's ever possible that police actually need training?

Lets follow the logic you present-They oppose the current usages of Tasers whilst ignoring their drastically reduced lethality when compared to use of a firearm, yet I am to assume they do not oppose guns because they never explicitly said so. I can not agree there.

While we may agree they have a legitimate concern about use of force, I see this pushed to the point that it endangers Police in the course of duty. Which to me is just as unacceptable. Take away enough less lethal tools and the result will be more use of lethal force on those very combative suspects. Neither of us want that.

Of course Police need training. No need to be sarcastic. You seem to have overlooked the term I used-In extremis. Require enough training and the method or tool will fall into disuse via impracticality. Notice they call for more training. And more, like nationally universal standards of use. (sheer folly) Yet no mention is made of what would be enough training apart from a complete lack of excessive or erroneous use of the Taser. Which is saving lives or suspects and the safety of officers very frequently. Perfection made the enemy of the good. No Thanks.

652 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:15:04pm

re: #647 b_sharp

The ACLU will likely tell you those kind of opinions are not part of its work.

Perhaps.

653 palomino  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:15:06pm

re: #650 BigPapa

I love double/triple entendres as much as anybody, but I can't get my head around that. I want to like it really bad... LOL.

You don't want to get your head around it. You want to get your head right between it.

654 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:17:58pm

re: #653 palomino

You don't want to get your head around it. You want to get your head right between it.

I realized a little too late that it was a double double entendre. Or could have been.

655 lostlakehiker  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 5:32:05pm

re: #106 jamesfirecat

Once again what do you make of all the people who say that Jews voted Republican in this election because of Weprin's support for gay marriage

[Link: www.google.com...]

There seems to be far too much of this for my liking since if it turns out to be true, thank frankly those Jewish voters weren't worth having in the first place. Which is why its an important hypothesis that I want to hear your thoughts on Buck, why do you think backlash for a pro gay marriage vote wasn't the cause for the jewish vote flip flop?

The search for "the cause" of a vote, or a voting pattern, is usually misguided. What one has to look for is contributing factors.

Here's an example of how this might work. Suppose, just as a hypothesis, that it were known that older voters are, on average, less supportive of gay marriage than younger voters. Suppose further that the NY district in question has an age distribution skewed up, compared to the general run of districts.

Those two things might then be judged a likely contributing factor to the Dem's defeat. How much of a contributing factor? It's a ticklish statistical problem just to come up with a plausible way to put a number to it.

What about the influence of scandal? Those who know a lot about campaigns might know this: how often does a district flip party when the previous incumbent had to resign because of a scandal? If the answer were "always", there would be no need to look for any other explanation than "scandal". If the answer were, ten percent more often than when the reason is something mundande such as "incumbent took a cabinet post with the administration", then "scandal" couldn't be judged to be much of a contributing factor.

What about the influence of the economy in general? Again, I don't know the stats. I do know that Herbert Hoover won the presidency in 1928 but the 1932 election went the other way, big time. And Carter lost to Reagan, even though a third party challenge boosted his chances. So there's a prima facie case that national scale economic difficulties drag down incumbents.

The "right answer" might well be, half of it came down to personal attributes of the candidate, half to a stew of several contributing factors, and we can't really say just how big each one was but no one of them was "the" reason.

656 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:07:07pm

re: #580 jaunte

It's now a capital crime to speak the truth in this country. Just ask Paul Krugman.

657 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 6:15:02pm

re: #651 Rightwingconspirator

Lets follow the logic you present-They oppose the current usages of Tasers whilst ignoring their drastically reduced lethality when compared to use of a firearm,

No, they don't. They don't ignore it at all.

You are not characterizing their positions accurately. And from that, the rest of your argument flows.

658 Buck  Wed, Sep 14, 2011 8:28:55pm

re: #656 Amory Blaine

It's now a capital crime to speak the truth in this country. Just ask Paul Krugman.

Oh good... did Krugman get arrested?

659 krypto  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:08:44am

re: #658 Buck

Oh good... did Krugman get arrested?

I think the relevant question might be more like, "did Krugman receive death threats from right wing vigilantes?"

660 Hanoch  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 2:34:01pm

You cannot understand Ms. Goldberg's comments because "the Republicans . . . obstruct and attack everything Obama does"? The fact is that up until the last election, the democrats controlled the Presidency, the Senate, and the House of Representatives (and they still control the former two). It is beyond me how anyone can, with a straight face, blame the miserable lack of progress on the economy on the Republicans. My sense is Ms. Goldberg will be representative of many voters come next November.

661 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 4:18:24am

re: #660 Hanoch

It's called a filibuster.
Look it up.


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