Fact-Checking Michele Bachmann’s Anti-Vaccine Lunacy

The Republican Party’s total war on health science
Wingnuts • Views: 27,850

TIME Magazine’s Healthland blog tears apart Michele Bachmann’s loony anti-vaccination nonsense: Vaccination Causes ‘Mental Retardation’? Fact-Checking Michele Bachmann’s Claim.

Perhaps more disturbing are comments Bachmann made Tuesday morning about the safety of the HPV vaccine itself — and what they revealed about her utter misunderstanding of the science.

Talking with Matt Lauer on the Today show, Bachmann said that the vaccine was “a very dangerous drug.” She continued:

I had a mother come up to me last night here in Tampa, Fla., after the debate. She told me that her little daughter took that vaccine, that injection. And she suffered from mental retardation thereafter. The mother was crying when she came up to me last night. I didn’t know who she was before the debate. This is the very real concern and people have to draw their own conclusions.

In fact, “mental retardation” is not a “very real concern” when it comes to vaccination. Rather, Bachmann is resurrecting the alleged connection between vaccines and mental disability — namely autism — which has been repeatedly debunked. Last year, the fraudulent research that first triggered parents’ widespread and persistent fear of vaccination was retracted by the medical journal that published it, and its author, Andrew Wakefield, was stripped of his medical license.

In August, a sweeping report by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) analyzed all the available data on the adverse events associated with eight childhood vaccines and found few risks. Notably, it also confirmed that there was no connection between the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine (MMR) — the vaccine that so many parents still fear — and autism risk.

The IOM report also included data on the HPV vaccine, finding some evidence to indicate that the side effect of fainting was a concern. But it did not find sufficient evidence to support any side effects involving development, such as mental retardation.

Read the whole thing.

The anti-science insanity of the Republican Party has never been more evident. These people are willing to put children’s lives at risk for no reason other than their own religious hangups.

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189 comments
1 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:48:02am

My crazy sister-in-law is an anti-vax lunatic too. She blames vaccines for her son's autism.

2 garhighway  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:49:15am

Correlation does not equal causation. Those people should have those words tattooed on their foreheads.

3 blueraven  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:51:56am

re: #1 NJDhockeyfan

My crazy sister-in-law is an anti-vax lunatic too. She blames vaccines for her son's autism.

Autism is a terrible condition. I have see mild to severe cases and it just makes you want to cry sometimes.

I think people just need to blame something, anything...

4 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:53:07am

The maddening part is that fact-checking Bachmann does no good at all. She'll just say another goofy thing and people will forget about this goofy thing.

5 elizajane  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:53:19am

Take comfort, though, from the fact that Bachmann's decision to stand against medical science has not helped her, even with the Republican base. Her new poll numbers are abysmal -- 5% in Virginia, according to Quinnipiac, and somewhere under 10% overall according to Bloomberg.

Of course, this would be more comforting if she had not lost ground in favor of Rick Perry. Being in favor of medicine is his most reasonable stance, except that he bases it on the donations of pharmaceutical companies, not on science.

And that's my 1000th post!

6 garhighway  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:54:34am

re: #3 blueraven

Autism is a terrible condition. I have see mild to severe cases and it just makes you want to cry sometimes.

I think people just need to blame something, anything...

We are hard wired to find cause-and-effect.

7 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:55:39am

re: #3 blueraven

Autism is a terrible condition. I have see mild to severe cases and it just makes you want to cry sometimes.

I think people just need to blame something, anything...

She's a 9-11 truther, believes in chemtrails, and thinks the FBI is listening in on her phone calls. She's nuts.

8 jc717  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:55:46am

Lunacy aside, she is likely hurting Perry with this.

I'm waiting for her to say that the HPV vaccine is like the Spanish Fly, and Perry wanted to turn your daughters into sluts.

9 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:59:41am

re: #8 jc717

Lunacy aside, she is likely hurting Perry with this.

I'm waiting for her to say that the HPV vaccine is like the Spanish Fly, and Perry wanted to turn your daughters into sluts.

She hasn't already?

10 blueraven  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:01:19am

re: #8 jc717

Lunacy aside, she is likely hurting Perry with this.

I'm waiting for her to say that the HPV vaccine is like the Spanish Fly, and Perry wanted to turn your daughters into sluts.

She would have hurt him more if she would have stuck to the way he tried enforce a mandate and his connection to Merck.

Also that this scientific stance and government mandate is highly unusual for Perry.

Instead, the story has become about her.

11 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:06:33am

I cited to the VAERS database the other day and that no cases of mental retardation were reported in connection to Gardasil vaccinations. None. Zip. Zilch.

The VAERS database is designed to allow doctors to report all side effects experienced - regardless of whether there was causality. If an ailment occurred following the dose, it's reported.

So, if Bachmann's anecdote is to be believed, someone would have had experienced mental retardation after taking the vaccine, but no one reported this to VAERS. That's possible, but highly unlikely.

There are side effects relating to Gardasil, but mental retardation isn't one of them.

There have been some reports of blood clots in females after receiving Gardasil. These clots have occurred in the heart, lungs, and legs. Most of these people had a risk of getting blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (the birth control pill), smoking, obesity, and other risk factors. That could potentially cause a stroke and therefore result in mental incapacity, but we'd need to know more specifics.

And yet the benefits still outweigh the side effects, which are largely minor (and the label warns about the possibility for blood clots and falls). The vaccine prevents a disease, cervical cancer, that affects 12,000 women annually. Many more are affected by HPV, the virus that is linked to cervical cancer.

13 Eric J  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:16:01am

Like in poker, this is a "tell" it's the tip of the iceberg in terms of her critical thinking ability. Yes, somewhere, sometime someone had an adverse reaction to a vaccine. But the untold millions of lives that have been saved because of vaccines so far outweigh the risks that this alone should disqualify her. Again, it show you how she thinks and how she looks at(ignores?) data.

14 Eric J  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:18:02am

OT ( so soon?) How does one respond to this? What does this mean, has this guy gone off his meds?

[Link: www.climatedepot.com...]

15 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:22:39am

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Southern Baptist Convention: Rick Perry is George W Bush without the education, compassion, or snobby east coast upbringing

He is George W Bush without the intelligence or ethics.
(Jim Hightower)

[Link: www.rawstory.com...]

16 blueraven  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:23:19am

Big surprise...John Boehner, in his "jobs" speech, rejects tax cuts for working people, including extending those payroll tax cuts already in place.

17 uncah91  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:25:33am
These people are willing to put children’s lives at risk for no reason other than their own religious hangups.

Charles,

In this case, I don't really think it has much to do with religion. This is really a distrust if the "establishment". On the left it manifests as a belief that government is controlled by shadowy forces in big business and that this is the reason for all ills, and on the right it manifests that "big government" is trying to destroy us for mysterious reasons...

18 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:26:33am

re: #16 blueraven

Big surprise...John Boehner, in his "jobs" speech, rejects tax cuts for working people, including extending those payroll tax cuts already in place.

The only way to move the economy will be people spending money on main street - that's it. To pretend otherwise is lunacy.

The people on main street need more money, further tax breaks and extensions of payroll breaks will do that. Funnelling money to the top will not solve this - record sales on 5th Avenue will not jump start the economy.

19 William of Orange  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:27:56am

I weep for you. A society taken hostage by the religious right.

20 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:29:42am

re: #18 wozzablog

The only way to move the economy will be people spending money on main street - that's it. To pretend otherwise is lunacy

Well I am about to help by buying a computer aided router for my woodworking hobby which I have been coveting for some time but will set me back 3 large.

21 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:29:51am

re: #17 uncah91

Charles,

In this case, I don't really think it has much to do with religion. This is really a distrust if the "establishment". On the left it manifests as a belief that government is controlled by shadowy forces in big business and that this is the reason for all ills, and on the right it manifests that "big government" is trying to destroy us for mysterious reasons...

The opposition to Gardasil in particular is mostly from Christian fundamentalists who believe the vaccine thwarts the will of God, who punishes promiscuous women with cervical cancer.

Really. That's how they think. You can find this stuff on any religious right website.

22 blueraven  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:30:24am

re: #18 wozzablog

The only way to move the economy will be people spending money on main street - that's it. To pretend otherwise is lunacy.

The people on main street need more money, further tax breaks and extensions of payroll breaks will do that. Funnelling money to the top will not solve this - record sales on 5th Avenue will not jump start the economy.

Unfortunately, the republicans still think its all about supply side, trickle down...blah, blah, blah.

They refuse to see that different situations call for different measures. Its always about corporate tax cuts.

23 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:33:46am

re: #14 Eric J

OT ( so soon?) How does one respond to this? What does this mean, has this guy gone off his meds?

[Link: www.climatedepot.com...]

Yeah, I've already gotten the mandatory gloating right wing hate mail over this. It's this week's tedious "take-down" of global warming. Yawn.

Like most scientists who deny climate change, Giaever has no background in climate science, and no research in the field. He's a physicist.

24 Kragar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:36:10am

In Battle Over Job Creation Ideas, GOP Offers Deregulation Of Pythons

Senator Jackson: "There are too many motherfucking regulations on these motherfucking snakes!"

25 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:38:04am

re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In Battle Over Job Creation Ideas, GOP Offers Deregulation Of Pythons

Senator Jackson: "There are too many motherfucking regulations on these motherfucking snakes!"

Big Motherfucking Pythons is Ripping Us Off!

26 uncah91  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:38:45am

re: #21 Charles

The opposition to Gardasil in particular is mostly from Christian fundamentalists who believe the vaccine thwarts the will of God, who punishes promiscuous women with cervical cancer.

Really. That's how they think. You can find this stuff on any religious right website.

Oh, I'm with you there Charles, the primary objection to Gardisil comes from a social conservative "anti-sex" mindset. But in tapping in to the whole vaccines = autism strain, Michelle isn't particularly tapping into a religious argument.

It's a whole 'nother ball of whacky.

I think Bachmann would happily start pushing a complete anti-vaccination agenda, because it fits in with a conspiracy minded world view which doesn't particularly have to be religious.

27 Kragar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:39:16am

re: #23 Charles

Yeah, I've already gotten the mandatory gloating right wing hate mail over this. It's this week's tedious "take-down" of global warming.

Like most scientists who deny climate change, Giaever has no background in climate science, and no research in the field. He's a physicist.

The APS has 47,000 members. One resigned over the statement. 46,999 to go.
/

28 aagcobb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:39:42am

re: #17 uncah91

Charles,

In this case, I don't really think it has much to do with religion. This is really a distrust if the "establishment". On the left it manifests as a belief that government is controlled by shadowy forces in big business and that this is the reason for all ills, and on the right it manifests that "big government" is trying to destroy us for mysterious reasons...

Its both. The religious right thinks libruls are trying to destroy family values, and that they are giving this vaccine to little girls so they can sleep around. Bachmann had lost much of the crazy vote to Perry, and this is an issue he is vulnerable on with the crazies.

29 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:44:43am

re: #26 uncah91

I agree that in general, the anti-vaccination delusion is not necessarily religious or right wing.

My point is that in this case, for the HPV vaccine in particular, the opposition is overwhelmingly for religious reasons, and that's the position Bachmann is attacking it from.

30 Kragar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:48:14am

re: #29 Charles

I agree that in general, the anti-vaccination delusion is not necessarily religious or right wing.

My point is that in this case, for the HPV vaccine in particular, the opposition is overwhelmingly for religious reasons, and that's the position Bachmann is attacking it from.

If the vaccine was for a condition that did not have a sex related component, I don't think it would be getting as much traction as its getting right now from the RR.

31 darthstar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:48:41am

I hear she's a swinger.

Oh, wait...I was getting Bachmann confused with Palin.

32 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:48:59am

As the anti-vaxxers freeload off of our herd immunity!
/

(Well, actually that's accurate, isn't it? O_O )

33 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:51:03am

i'm used to wingnuts saying stupid and harmful things - i'm more interested in whether she has managed to blunt the perry

34 uncah91  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:51:11am

re: #29 Charles

I agree that in general, the anti-vaccination delusion is not necessarily religious or right wing.

My point is that in this case, for the HPV vaccine in particular, the opposition is overwhelmingly for religious reasons, and that's the position Bachmann is attacking it from.

I agree with you Charles.

But I also wondery why Bachmann is comfortable attacking Perry on this particular front. Why did it come up so naturally?

35 nines09  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:51:12am

With all the half truths, assumptions, lies and outright lies spewed by these Mensa members, finally someone noticed? I also think The Princess of The 4th Dimension of Mars just shot her chances as running with Ricky. Wouldn't that have been a Dream Ticket? Vote Sleaze and Stupid in 2012.

36 leftynyc  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:51:15am

re: #16 blueraven

Big surprise...John Boehner, in his "jobs" speech, rejects tax cuts for working people, including extending those payroll tax cuts already in place.

Using republican logic - they want a tax increase on the middle class.

37 darthstar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:52:12am

re: #29 Charles

I agree that in general, the anti-vaccination delusion is not necessarily religious or right wing.

My point is that in this case, for the HPV vaccine in particular, the opposition is overwhelmingly for religious reasons, and that's the position Bachmann is attacking it from.

Bachmann and the rest of those idiots act like the doctors, when giving the HPV vaccine to little girls, are telling them, "This is so you can go fuck boys."

It's a vaccine. To prevent cancer. Period. That's all people need to know...especially ignorant fucktards like Michele Bachmann who found Jesus "and suffered from mental retardation thereafter."

38 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:52:44am

In terms of science denial a related comment:

Ivar Giaever was once a great physicist. He made a very public spectacle of resigning from APS over the word "incontrovertible" in its position statement on AGW. He phrases it in high and mighty language about how science does not consider anything incontrovertible.

This is a nuanced and artful dodge. There are many incontrovertible things in science. Consider the roundness of the Earth -once open for debate, or the fact that the Earth orbits the Sun also once a topic of intense debate. Nothing will ever change those things. No new discovery will invalidate them with out invalidating essentially all other human scientific knowledge. The same can be said for Relativity, The fact that CO2 absorbs IR in certain bands, the fact that energy is conserved and the fact that ice melts when it gets hot.

The "incontrovertible" language in the APS position has been there in the position statement for years now. Many members urged that it be put in (including myself). It is odd that he so suddenly decided to get a bug in his ass about it. In the intervening years since the position statement was written, the data has been coming in mountains confirming the correctness of the stance.

It is wrong to bash the credentials of someone like Ivar Giaever. He made incredible contributions to solid state physics and fundamental quantum theory. He is certainly more qualified to make a call on the science than a Fox News anchor. This is why he is so very much worse. He knows better. All the science is there and very easy to see. Then again, Richard Lindzen at MIT, who denies climate, also knows better. But he is paid well for it by various Koch and Exxon funded groups and started his extra science career denying that cigarettes cause cancer.

Why exactly would a man who made great contributions to solid state theory some 50 years ago suddenly decide that all of his colleagues and all of their strong data and were wrong? I expect that if some digging is done it will be found that this profound traitor to all the science he once stood for is getting a lot of money from the usual suspects.

Ivar, you know better. I hope the pay check you got for this betrayal was worth it.

39 uncah91  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:52:56am

re: #34 uncah91

I agree with you Charles.

But I also wondery why Bachmann is comfortable attacking Perry on this particular front. Why did it come up so naturally?

In other words, why did she go the "vaccine truther" route instead of the "government hands off my virginal daughter" route?

40 darthstar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:53:12am

re: #16 blueraven

Big surprise...John Boehner, in his "jobs" speech, rejects tax cuts for working people, including extending those payroll tax cuts already in place.

Boehner's a fucking prick...and he's orange.

41 aagcobb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:56:34am

re: #39 uncah91

In other words, why did she go the "vaccine truther" route instead of the "government hands off my virginal daughter" route?

Because it just goes to show that the evul libruls don't care what physical damage they do to little girls, so long as they can turn them into promiscuous sluts.

42 zora  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:56:52am

re: #40 darthstar

orange pricks are never a good sign.

43 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:57:39am

re: #40 darthstar

Boehner's a fucking prick...and he's orange.

Another thing the HPV vaccine is supposed to help guard against?

44 Robert O.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:57:49am

Wasn't it not long ago that clerics in Nigeria (or was it Sudan) said the same thing about Polio vaccines? I feel it is time to educate the people, say posters divided into two halves: ignorant Christians on one side and ignorant Muslims on the other, showing both saying exactly the same thing (whether it is vaccines, gays, separation between church and state, evolution etc). Maybe only then will more people start to see the disturbing similarities.

45 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 10:57:56am

re: #40 darthstar

Boehner's a fucking prick...and he's orange.

Beware the Oompa Loompa ninjas. They take offense at minor slights.

46 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:02:14am

re: #16 blueraven

Big surprise...John Boehner, in his "jobs" speech, rejects tax cuts for working people, including extending those payroll tax cuts already in place.

it's so easy to come up with halfassed reasons to be against anything obama does that the Official Office of Excuse Creation for the Republican Party is just phoning it in

they know it doesn't matter how implausible it is, the loyal corps of dittoheads will all be repeating it as if they found it in the constitution by this evening

47 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:04:16am

re: #44 Robert O.

Wasn't it not long ago that clerics in Nigeria (or was it Sudan) said the same thing about Polio vaccines? I feel it is time to educate the people, say posters divided into two halves: ignorant Christians on one side and ignorant Muslims on the other, showing both saying exactly the same thing (whether it is vaccines, gays, separation between church and state, evolution etc). Maybe only then will more people start to see the disturbing similarities.

The Muslim clerics in (whatever third world hellhole it was) said that polio vaccines were a ZIONIST plot to make men's penises shrivel up and fall off.

48 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:06:44am

re: #47 Alouette

The Muslim clerics in (whatever third world hellhole it was) said that polio vaccines were a ZIONIST plot to make men's penises shrivel up and fall off.

They had to explain themselves somehow......
/

49 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:07:33am

I just expanded and corrected (for grammar) that post as a page

My response to Ivar Giaever

50 Robert O.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:07:43am

re: #47 Alouette

Thanks for the clarification. You know what? I think (with good reason) if a Muslim country had a sufficiently advanced biomedical industry and they exported vaccines to the US, we would have Christian pastors claiming this was an Islamic plot, and the most superstitious and delusional "base" voters in the GOP would eat it up.

51 iossarian  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:09:32am

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

I just expanded and corrected (for grammar) that post as a page

My response to Ivar Giaever

Great page Lud. We don't always agree on everything but that one is spot on.

52 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:10:55am

re: #47 Alouette

The Muslim clerics in (whatever third world hellhole it was) said that polio vaccines were a ZIONIST plot to make men's penises shrivel up and fall off.

Meanwhile, in another third-world hellhole, they know better:

We visit a clinic where Somali mothers have lined up because they know this is one of the few places where they can actually get vaccines for their children. It is a line of defense built one baby at a time.

53 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:12:35am

OT: Sounds like something is up in Wisconsin. Abrupt resignations, FBI searches, the governor lawyering up... interesting.

Walker's new mess in Madison

54 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:12:42am

re: #47 Alouette

The Muslim clerics in (whatever third world hellhole it was) said that polio vaccines were a ZIONIST plot to make men's penises shrivel up and fall off.

Sure did.

Islamic cleric claims vaccinations are a "Jewish conspiracy"

55 jaunte  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:16:45am

re: #53 makeitstop

OT: Sounds like something is up in Wisconsin. Abrupt resignations, FBI searches, the governor lawyering up... interesting.

Walker's new mess in Madison

Governor Walker Proclaims September as 'Wisconsin Character Month'

57 dragonfire1981  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:17:08am

everyone knows TIME magazine is just part of the evil liberal media anyway. They are just out to get Michele because she speaks the truth they're afraid to admit!!

58 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:19:36am

re: #56 NJDhockeyfan

Meet The Eight Amish Guys Jailed For Refusing To Attach Orange Safety Triangles To Their Buggies

Mugshots at the link.

Free The Swartzentruber Eight!!1!

59 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:20:07am

WTF is Drudge's obsession with the Obamas and food about?

Image: DRUDGESEZMICHELLESEZNOFRIESFORYOU.jpg

60 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:20:19am

re: #14 Eric J

OT ( so soon?) How does one respond to this? What does this mean, has this guy gone off his meds?

[Link: www.climatedepot.com...]

See my page on that. He is about as qualified to make this judgement as a typical Fox anchor person.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

61 jaunte  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:20:27am

re: #56 NJDhockeyfan

Neckbeard misdemeanors all around.

62 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:22:55am

re: #61 jaunte

Neckbeard misdemeanors all around.

Graves County, Ky is a much safer place now that these 8 varmints have been captured!

63 Eric J  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:24:27am

re: #23 Charles

I'm sure you have. I'm preparing for mine. Got a good link from Ballard on this guy.

64 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:24:55am

re: #58 Decatur Deb

Free Shave The Swartzentruber Eight!!1!

:)

65 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:25:35am

re: #64 sattv4u2

:)

The beards can stay, they just need to something, anything, with that hair.

66 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:26:36am

re: #65 EmmmieG

The beards can stay, they just need to something, anything, with that hair.

Haircut Manual

GET BOWL
PLACE BOWL ON HEAD
CUT ANY HAIR OUTSIDE OF BOWL
REMOVE BOWL FROM HEAD

67 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:27:27am

re: #65 EmmmieG

The beards can stay, they just need to something, anything, with that hair.

Thats what happens when you go whizzing down the dirt road at 2 miles an hour in an open buggy!!

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:27:55am

There are some new articles out that the possible cause of the rise in autism (any reasonable person will see that one reason for the "rise" is that we're better at diagnosing it) is that geographical mobility means that people are marrying more like themselves, and thereby doubling down on similar genetic traits.

Interesting idea.

69 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:28:32am

re: #65 EmmmieG

The beards can stay, they just need to something, anything, with that hair.

i am sitting here repressing the urge to make billy goat noises

70 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:30:46am

re: #51 iossarian

Great page Lud. We don't always agree on everything but that one is spot on.

Thank you.

71 jaunte  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:31:15am
72 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:31:37am

The men, who were booked Monday night into the Graves County jail, refused to pay the fines on grounds that their religion bars them from wearing or displaying bright colors. Jailed for misdemeanor contempt of court, the inmates were provided dark-colored jumpsuits in place of the standard issue orange coveralls...

While members of the Swartzentruber Amish sect will affix reflective tape to the rear of their buggies, they eschew use of the bright safety triangle, which they consider too modern.

on the other hand, i do hold some religious convictions in common with them, especially god's sacred commandment against orange clothing

73 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:31:42am

re: #67 sattv4u2

Thats what happens when you go whizzing down the dirt road at 2 miles an hour in an open buggy!!

They were headed to the Amish Buggy Drag Race!

74 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:32:28am

Is there a blood test for autism? Or is it something that is diagnosed as a matter of degree as the result of observation? That could also play a role in the increased rates of autism, perhaps we are just more fixated on observing it and finding it these days.

75 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:33:05am

re: #72 engineer dog

i do hold some religious convictions in common with them, especially god's sacred commandment against orange clothing

You'll never make it on South Beach, my friend!

76 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:33:15am

re: #23 Charles

Yeah, I've already gotten the mandatory gloating right wing hate mail over this. It's this week's tedious "take-down" of global warming. Yawn.

Like most scientists who deny climate change, Giaever has no background in climate science, and no research in the field. He's a physicist.

Please see my response to him. Also, physics is a central part of climate science. It is an interdisciplinary field for certain, but a lot of card carrying physicists are climate scientists.

77 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:34:36am

re: #74 ralphieboy

Is there a blood test for autism? Or is it something that is diagnosed as a matter of degree as the result of observation? That could also play a role in the increased rates of autism, perhaps we are just more fixated on observing it and finding it these days.

Autism is diagnosed by observing behaviors. For example, some red flag behaviors would be:

late or no speech
lack of eye contact
lack of imaginative play (instead of driving a toy car, they line up a bunch of cars and look at them)
lack of empathy

78 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:35:27am

re: #74 ralphieboy

Is there a blood test for autism? Or is it something that is diagnosed as a matter of degree as the result of observation? That could also play a role in the increased rates of autism, perhaps we are just more fixated on observing it and finding it these days.

There are many different types of autism which makes it hard to diagnose. One of my daughter has been labeled of a minor type of autism by the school. Our family doctor disagrees.

79 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:36:49am

No "Right of Return" for Palestinian refugees in the new state they plan to declare

First the "Judenrein" announcement and now this. Their lame little end run at the U.N. is going to crash and burn.

Never missing an opportunity, etc.

80 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:36:57am

Sperm donor has 70 (+) offspring

[Link: www.bostonglobe.com...]

And the sad thing is, they all send him the same cheap, crappy, fathers day card!!

////

81 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:37:49am

re: #77 EmmmieG

Autism is diagnosed by observing behaviors. For example, some red flag behaviors would be:

late or no speech
lack of eye contact
lack of imaginative play (instead of driving a toy car, they line up a bunch of cars and look at them)
lack of empathy

Then these are somewhat subjective and relative indicators. And it indicates that if somebody is looking for autistic behavior in a group of children, they will have no trouble finding it.

What is "unimaginative" about lining up a bunch of cars and looking at them? They imagine that they are waiting in line at the MacDrive...

82 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:38:57am

re: #74 ralphieboy

Autism is a spectrum disorder and there are no blood tests or genetic screening that can be done to rule if someone has it or not.

The DSM-IV has guidelines for screening, and it usually requires the doctor to rule out other conditions before providing a diagnosis of autism.

83 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:39:47am

re: #78 NJDhockeyfan

There are many different types of autism which makes it hard to diagnose. One of my daughter has been labeled of a minor type of autism by the school. Our family doctor disagrees.

A grand-daughter is somewhere around 4-6 on a scale of 10. At that severity, early diagnosis and training is critical, and the doctor's diagnosis is critical to in-school help.

84 blueraven  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:39:56am

re: #59 000G

WTF is Drudge's obsession with the Obamas and food about?

Image: DRUDGESEZMICHELLESEZNOFRIESFORYOU.jpg

The food they eat, the air they breathe...its all fair game!

85 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:40:14am

re: #77 EmmmieG

lack of imaginative play (instead of driving a toy car, they line up a bunch of cars and look at them)

What is "unimaginative" about lining up a bunch of cars and looking at them? Ford and GM engineers do this all day long. Only once in a while do they go for a test drive.

86 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:40:17am

re: #81 ralphieboy

Then these are somewhat subjective and relative indicators. And it indicates that if somebody is looking for autistic behavior in a group of children, they will have no trouble finding it.

What is "unimaginative" about lining up a bunch of cars and looking at them? They imagine that they are waiting in line at the MacDrive...

Yes, but if you never take the car and pretend it is driving, that's a bad sign.

And all babies should make eye contact. That's important.

While it is subjective, these signs would also be pervasive.

87 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:40:23am

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

Please see my response to him. Also, physics is a central part of climate science. It is an interdisciplinary field for certain, but a lot of card carrying physicists are climate scientists.

Physics should not be discounted since that discipline is part of climate science. However, he's not a physicist connected to the climate field, and the 'Doth Protest' drama bereft of real data just reeks of drama queen lacking substance. I know you know this, but that was my take.

Yawn + (crickets....)

88 blueraven  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:41:51am

re: #62 NJDhockeyfan

Graves County, Ky is a much safer place now that these 8 varmints have been captured!

They broke the law and now refuse to pay the fine. Too bad.

Would you have as much empathy if it were a Muslim group who did something similar?

89 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:43:18am

For example, on the speech thing:

At a recent wedding, a 9 year-old autistic girl who is the daughter of a friend of mine came over and put her foot on my leg. (We were both standing up.)

I smiled and put it down. She put it back. I was trying to figure out if I should get her parents when I looked down at her foot.

The shoe latch was undone. I did it up for her, and she went away happily.

She couldn't ask for help. She couldn't ask me to help her with her shoe.

90 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:43:20am

re: #83 Decatur Deb

My nephew has 3. It's enough to see the shaded differences in his actions, but not too much for special attention. Our family gives him the special attention and hopefully the tools to handle himself among the general public.
He has also matured a lot by age 12 and some of his reactions have settled down.
He doesn't panic over loud noises, for example. He just carries his ear plugs in his pocket, the little sweetie.

91 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:43:43am

re: #88 blueraven

They broke the law and now refuse to pay the fine. Too bad.

Would you have as much empathy if it were a Muslim group who did something similar?

Pretty much, recognizing the mess an SUV makes when it goes through a horse-and-buggy.

92 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:44:01am

re: #88 blueraven

They broke the law and now refuse to pay the fine. Too bad.

Would you have as much empathy if it were a Muslim group who did something similar?

Oh for fraks sake

It's a funny little story, and thats the way it was presented by NJD and thats the way it was taken by all who made funny comments AND updinged those comments

As Sgt Hulka said ,,, "Lighten up, Francis"

93 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:45:05am

Its raining, everyone went home. If I sneak outta work now, I'll have Dead Island all to myself, kids will have to do homework Mwahahaha.

94 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:45:37am

re: #91 Decatur Deb

Pretty much, recognizing the mess an SUV makes when it goes through a horse-and-buggy.

Never had that happen, but I can tell you a deer screws up a mini van!!!

95 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:45:47am

re: #86 EmmmieG

Yes, but if you never take the car and pretend it is driving, that's a bad sign.

And all babies should make eye contact. That's important.

While it is subjective, these signs would also be pervasive.

I am not even beginning to imply that autism is a "fashionable" disease (as some have called it) or to imply that a lot of these diagnoses are bullshit.

I just want to point ot that it is hard to come up with "hard" figures for something that is not easily and objectively defined: no antibodies, no pathology, only behavioral indicators, which can be misread.

96 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:47:05am

re: #93 Shropshire_Slasher

Its raining, everyone went home. If I sneak outta work now, I'll have Dead Island all to myself, kids will have to do homework Mwahahaha.

Your workplace closes when it rains? Where do you work, a car wash !?!?

97 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:47:14am

re: #83 Decatur Deb

A grand-daughter is somewhere around 4-6 on a scale of 10. At that severity, early diagnosis and training is critical, and the doctor's diagnosis is critical to in-school help.

Three weeks into kindergarten her teacher said she has ADD and suggested she be put on Ritalin. Her reason? She wouldn't sit still. SHE WAS 5 YEARS OLD!

I was pissed. We took her to the doctor and he said she was perfectly normal. After 2nd grade they said if she wasn't given an autism label she would fail 3rd grade. We felt forced to sign a paper.

How fucked up is that?

98 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:48:05am

re: #88 blueraven

They broke the law and now refuse to pay the fine. Too bad.

Would you have as much empathy if it were a Muslim group who did something similar?

How many muslims drive horse & buggys around town?

99 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:48:49am

Early intervention for autism is very important. Also you must be a forceful advocate for your child in public school. and patience, lotsa patience.

100 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:48:49am

re: #97 NJDhockeyfan

Three weeks into kindergarten her teacher said she has ADD and suggested she be put on Ritalin. Her reason? She wouldn't sit still. SHE WAS 5 YEARS OLD!

I was pissed. We took her to the doctor and he said she was perfectly normal. After 2nd grade they said if she wasn't given an autism label she would fail 3rd grade. We felt forced to sign a paper.

How fucked up is that?

My son is 28 years old and he has started taking Ritalin. He says it makes him calmer and helps him focus. I said Oookaaay.

101 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:49:00am

re: #95 ralphieboy

I am not even beginning to imply that autism is a "fashionable" disease (as some have called it) or to imply that a lot of these diagnoses are bullshit.

I just want to point ot that it is hard to come up with "hard" figures for something that is not easily and objectively defined: no antibodies, no pathology, only behavioral indicators, which can be misread.

Even though it's been slowly gaining attention since the 60's. We're way early in understanding it. Autism might not even be one condition.

102 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:49:22am

re: #97 NJDhockeyfan

Hopefully that paper will put into effect any extra services they have to help her succeed.

103 iossarian  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:50:14am

re: #97 NJDhockeyfan

Three weeks into kindergarten her teacher said she has ADD and suggested she be put on Ritalin. Her reason? She wouldn't sit still. SHE WAS 5 YEARS OLD!

I was pissed. We took her to the doctor and he said she was perfectly normal. After 2nd grade they said if she wasn't given an autism label she would fail 3rd grade. We felt forced to sign a paper.

How fucked up is that?

As fucked up as the fact that our school just nixed the floating teacher who helps out with these kids due to budget cuts.

Cue more Ritalin.

104 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:50:33am

re: #102 prairiefire

Hopefully that paper will put into effect any extra services they have to help her succeed.

It does. She gets help from volunteer classroom teachers.

105 blueraven  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:50:38am

re: #98 NJDhockeyfan

How many muslims drive horse & buggys around town?

What part of something similar do you not understand?

In other words, something that they claim is against their religion.

106 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:50:48am

re: #100 Alouette

My son is 28 years old and he has started taking Ritalin. He says it makes him calmer and helps him focus. I said Oookaaay.

I have heard that Ritalin is a big hit on the dating scene: for men. It helps them sit and concentrate and focus totally on what the chick is talking about all evening, and that goes over big-time. Women love good listeners....

107 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:51:24am

re: #105 blueraven

What part of something similar do you not understand?

In other words, something that they claim is against their religion.

I can't think of anything similar to horse & buggys. Please help me with that.

108 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:51:38am

re: #90 prairiefire

My nephew has 3. It's enough to see the shaded differences in his actions, but not too much for special attention. Our family gives him the special attention and hopefully the tools to handle himself among the general public.
He has also matured a lot by age 12 and some of his reactions have settled down.
He doesn't panic over loud noises, for example. He just carries his ear plugs in his pocket, the little sweetie.

Our family's goal is to keep the girl in a school setting as long as possible. The rural Alabama school our daughter sought out is amazingly hip and cooperative, but becoming flat broke like all the others.

109 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:51:53am

re: #101 Decatur Deb

Even though it's been slowly gaining attention since the 60's. We're way early in understanding it. Autism might not even be one condition.

Is it related to homosexuality? That is still considered a disease by some...

110 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:52:54am

re: #98 NJDhockeyfan

How many muslims drive horse & buggys around town?

The ones that cannot easily acquire camels, of course.

;)

111 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:53:07am

re: #96 sattv4u2

My crew just poured an 800 cubic yard concrete bridge deck, they are kinda beat. It has to wet cure for 14 days before they can put heavy equipment on it and finish the concrete barrier. Lotsa fun. Today, the carpenters just took a piece of plastic and used it as a poncho (or skirt), them damn sissy ironworkers went home this morning.

112 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:53:16am

re: #107 NJDhockeyfan

I can't think of anything similar to horse & buggys. Please help me with that.

Lack of imagination regarding Muslims, horses and buggies = Autism?

/

113 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:53:41am

re: #112 ralphieboy

Lack of imagination regarding Muslims, horses and buggies = Autism?

/

I need Ritalin!

114 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:54:10am

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

I need Ritalin!

got a hot date tonite?

115 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:54:17am

re: #111 Shropshire_Slasher

My crew just poured an 800 cubic yard concrete bridge deck, they are kinda beat. It has to wet cure for 14 days before they can put heavy equipment on it and finish the concrete barrier. Lotsa fun. Today, the carpenters just took a piece of plastic and used it as a poncho (or skirt), them damn sissy ironworkers went home this morning.

Two kinds of concrete

Concrete that IS cracked
Concrete that is GOING TO crack

Right?

116 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:54:25am

re: #108 Decatur Deb

We can't keep starving the educational system.

117 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:55:21am

re: #115 sattv4u2

All concrete cracks.

118 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:55:40am

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

I need Ritalin!

I have Skittles, will that do!?!?

119 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:56:01am

re: #118 sattv4u2

I have Skittles, will that do!?!?

Skitalin?

120 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:56:47am

re: #119 ralphieboy

Skitalin?

You holdin'?

121 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:57:17am

re: #100 Alouette

My son is 28 years old and he has started taking Ritalin. He says it makes him calmer and helps him focus. I said Oookaaay.

You probably can't get a second school, but you can get a second doctor's opinion. It's better to withdraw an overly-aggressive diagnosis, than to lose very important developmental assistance in the first couple years. (Our daughter's first doctor diagnosed Fetal Alcohol Syndrome--daughter didn't drink.)

122 palomino  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:57:28am

re: #44 Robert O.

Wasn't it not long ago that clerics in Nigeria (or was it Sudan) said the same thing about Polio vaccines? I feel it is time to educate the people, say posters divided into two halves: ignorant Christians on one side and ignorant Muslims on the other, showing both saying exactly the same thing (whether it is vaccines, gays, separation between church and state, evolution etc). Maybe only then will more people start to see the disturbing similarities.

I think we'll get plenty more of those "disturbing similarities" with a President Perry in the WH. Yee hah, just what we need: a secessionist theocrat anti-science cowboy who thinks compromise is a dirty word...that will really unify the country.

123 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 11:58:19am

Michele Bachmann: No government vaccines but the same government can tell gay couples they can't adopt or marry. As they say in the Guinness commercials, brilliant!

124 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:01:09pm

re: #106 ralphieboy

I have heard that Ritalin is a big hit on the dating scene: for men. It helps them sit and concentrate and focus totally on what the chick is talking about all evening, and that goes over big-time. Women love good listeners...

"don't stare at her chest ,, don't stare at her chest,, don't stare at her chest ,, don't ,,,,,,"

125 Tigger2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:02:30pm

re: #16 blueraven

Big surprise...John Boehner, in his "jobs" speech, rejects tax cuts for working people, including extending those payroll tax cuts already in place.

Dont ya know the working people aren't rich they don't matter to the modern teapublican party.

126 EastSider  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:04:59pm

Steven Colbert invented "truthiness" in 2005, and it won word of the year. Essentially: if something "feels right" "in the gut," it can be sold as a truth, without regards for evidence or logic.

What we're witnessing recently is the death of the last vestige of rigor from truthiness.

It would seem that, on the right, you know longer have to feel something in the gut, you simply have to want it to be true to go around selling it.

Global warming is false, Obama is a socialist...etc etc.

There are two options: The leaders on the right know truth from fiction and are expertly navigating a sea of ignorance to achieve fame and fortune (and power, incidentally). Or they genuinely believe that they can change the natural state of the world by repeating a lie often enough on TV.

I'm not sure which is a scarier opponent.

127 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:08:12pm

'Jew or Not Jew' app pulled by Apple after racism complaints

The 0.79 euro app allows users to peruse a database of 3,500 famous figures to determine whether or not they are of Jewish origin.

But SOS Racisme contacted Apple to complain that storing a person's personal data without their consent is illegal in France.

Under a law enacted following the Holocaust, stocking details including race, sexuality, political leanings or religious affiliation of individuals is punishable by a five-year prison sentence and fines of up to 300,000 euros (£260,000).

Developer Johann Levy, a 35-year-old Franco-British engineer of Jewish origin, defended his app as harmless fun in an interview with Le Parisien newspaper.

128 Ming  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:08:52pm

I was recently told by a doctor that HPV is so common these days, that "it's everywhere"; anyone can get it, and the mechanism does not have to be sexual contact.

I know this is "only" another day in the life of right-wing derangement, but there's something especially scary about their issuing pronouncements on medical matters. As David Gergen pointed out on CNN last night, there may be some parents who take Bachmann's words to heart, and keep their children away from the HPV vaccine, and maybe other vaccines. This endangers not only these particular children, but all Americans.

129 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:10:25pm

Wonder how much this is going to cost the Apple Industry this time.

Does apple juice have unsafe levels of arsenic?

130 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:13:40pm

bbiaw. The Mrs. has decided we need to go grocery shopping.

131 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:13:41pm

re: #129 Bubblehead II

Wonder how much this is going to cost the Apple Industry this time.

Does apple juice have unsafe levels of arsenic?

I'll just go back to feeding my kids unpasteurized milk and carbonated soda.

132 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:14:30pm

re: #129 Bubblehead II

Wonder how much this is going to cost the Apple Industry this time.

Does apple juice have unsafe levels of arsenic?

Meh. Celebu-docs. It kind of angers me that people like Oz present this type of thing on their shows (digging for ratings instead of offering good information to viewers), and it's nice to see the FDA push back.

133 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:16:10pm

re: #129 Bubblehead II

Wonder how much this is going to cost the Apple Industry this time.

Does apple juice have unsafe levels of arsenic?

I hear Dr Oz is selling apple presses on the side for making fresh apple juice.

//

134 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:16:51pm

re: #100 Alouette

My son is 28 years old and he has started taking Ritalin. He says it makes him calmer and helps him focus. I said Oookaaay.

I'm about as anti medication as they come, but I finally admitted that I wasn't making progress and have started taking Wellbutrin to get a handle on bi-polar and my inability to maintain focus for longer than 5 minutes. I'm not happy about it, but I trick myself by viewing it the same way as my heart meds. it's better to take preventive medications that keep me healthy than to continue ambling along and running the risk of a serious problem.

For those who are curious, there is strong evidence that untreated bipolar disorders lead to a long term decline of mental facilities. Just like if I left my heart condition untreated it could lead to a long term decline in heart function. Either of which would be a ... bad thing.

So, I'm not sure if your son has a similar condition, but if it gives him the ability to function at a peak level, and there's no evidence that it's causing long term harm, why not? :)

135 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:17:45pm

Nicolas Cage awoken by naked man with Fudgesicle

For actor Nicolas Cage, making the new thriller movie "Trespass" hit close to home.

Cage, at the Toronto film festival along with director Joel Schumacher promoting the film about a home invasion, said that he has actually lived through the nightmare in real life.

"It was two in the morning. I was living in Orange County at the time and was asleep with my wife. My two-year old at the time was in another room. I opened my eyes and there was a naked man wearing my leather jacket eating a Fudgesicle in front of my bed," he told reporters on Wednesday.

"I know it sounds funny ... but it was horrifying."

136 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:19:43pm

re: #129 Bubblehead II

I have never particularly liked Dr. Oz and don't consider him reliable (another one of the offerings of Oprah). His expertise is in cardiothoracic surgery, not epidemiology.

The arsenic presentation he gave was all about scare tactics, ignoring that toxicity is in the dose, and that there are differences in organic and inorganic arsenic and how that affects biochemistry.

Parents, OTOH, hear arsenic in apple juice and will freak out.

Yeah, that's responsible public health considerations.

137 Kragar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:20:30pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

Nicolas Cage awoken by naked man with Fudgesicle

Especially when you realize it wasn't really a fudgesicle...

138 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:21:20pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Especially when you realize it wasn't really a fudgesicle...

"Is that a fudgesicle in your hand or are you just happy to see me?"

139 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:23:16pm

re: #136 lawhawk

I have never particularly liked Dr. Oz and don't consider him reliable (another one of the offerings of Oprah). His expertise is in cardiothoracic surgery, not epidemiology.

The arsenic presentation he gave was all about scare tactics, ignoring that toxicity is in the dose, and that there are differences in organic and inorganic arsenic and how that affects biochemistry.

Parents, OTOH, hear arsenic in apple juice and will freak out.

Yeah, that's responsible public health considerations.

It's the nature of modern media, unfortunately.

It's the same mentality that leads local news stations to run stories like 'Is your carpet killing you?' or the like. The story is nowhere near as inflammatory as the headline, but the headline is what grabs you and maybe makes you tune in.

I can only imagine what the promos for the apple juice show were like.

140 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:23:51pm

LA Porn Studio Begins Construction On ‘Post-Apocalyptic’ Underground Bunker

A San Fernando Valley adult entertainment studio began construction this month on what it calls a “post-apocalyptic” underground bunker in anticipation of a global catastrophe rumored to take place in late 2012.

A spokesman for Van Nuys-based Pink Visual said the bunker will be “far more than a mere bomb shelter or subterranean survivalist enclave” with amenities such as multiple fully-stocked bars, an enormous performing stage and a sophisticated content production studio.

“Our goal is nothing less than to survive the apocalypse to come in comfort and luxury,” said Pink Visual spokesman Quentin Boyer, “whether that catastrophe takes the form of fireballs flung earthward by an all-seeing deity, extended torrential rainfall, Biblical rapture, an earthquake-driven mega-tsunami, radioactive flesh-eating zombies, or some combination of the above.”

Sounds like a fun place to be during the end of the world.

141 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:25:42pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

Nicolas Cage awoken by naked man with Fudgesicle

He says it happened years ago.

142 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:25:59pm

re: #127 NJDhockeyfan

This is a rather difficult one to get one's head around. On one hand, one can accuse this app of "confirming stereotypes", but what if the "confirmg a sterotype" involves pointing out that nearly half of the world's Grand Master chess champions are Jewish? That seems more like something to be proud of.

143 Big Steve  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:26:36pm

Those of us in Houston are getting the pleasure of a trial of a famous local hand surgeon accused of assaulting his wife. But you have to love this line in the article ([Link: www.chron.com...] altercation, witnessed by the couple's three children, was broken up by a bodyguard who had standing instructions to break up the couple's fights." Now that must have been some marriage that it required a bodyguard to break up their fights!

144 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:28:53pm

I really have to do some work today.

Cheers!

145 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:29:44pm

Drudge linking to Alex Jones again: 3-yr-olds branded 'racist,' 'homophobic' put in government database...

146 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:29:46pm

re: #127 NJDhockeyfan

'Jew or Not Jew' app pulled by Apple after racism complaints

I don't see what the big deal is. There are Jewish media sources (like "The Forward") that focus a great deal of time and effort into identifying "Jewish" celebrities.

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:31:26pm

THE PATIENT BECOMES A BIO-REACTOR!!!

The flu-like symptoms also mean the cancer is on the run. After the ordeal, doctors estimated that two pounds of cancer cells had died off in one patient, William Ludwig.

"I have my life back," Ludwig said in a New York Times article.

Six months after treatment Ludwig's cancer was still in remision and he still had the modified T-cells in his blood stream, ready to fight a resurgence of the leukemia.

this is a pretty amazing story

148 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:32:11pm

re: #146 Alouette

I don't see what the big deal is. There are Jewish media sources (like "The Forward") that focus a great deal of time and effort into identifying "Jewish" celebrities.

I guess they would ban Adam Sandler's Channukah song, too: it is all about identifying Jewish celebrities...

149 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:40:38pm

re: #129 Bubblehead II

Squeezing Juice from an iPhone? Kinda hard when the battery's toast.

150 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:40:57pm

re: #148 ralphieboy

I guess they would ban Adam Sandler's Channukah song, too: it is all about identifying Jewish celebrities...

[Video]

I think it's really pathetic and creepy to make a big deal out of which celebrities have "Jewish" ancestry, whether it's for hate or for "pride." If somebody doesn't actively practice Judaism or identify with "The Tribe," then whose freaking business is it if their grandmother was Jewish or not?

151 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:44:18pm

a 35-year-old Franco-British engineer of Jewish origin

these days identity issues can be quite complicated

i had a professor in college who was a gay dude from a jewish family, originally from greece, that had moved to france where he had grown up. he described himself to me as a "franco-american greek-jewish homosexual"

152 AK-47%  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:44:29pm

re: #150 Alouette

I think it's really pathetic and creepy to make a big deal out of which celebrities have "Jewish" ancestry, whether it's for hate or for "pride." If somebody doesn't actively practice Judaism or identify with "The Tribe," then whose freaking business is it if their grandmother was Jewish or not?

Maybe they could sell it only on the condition that the users themselves were Jewish?

/

153 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:45:59pm

re: #150 Alouette

I prefer to play "Dead Or Canadian"

154 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:46:10pm

re: #148 ralphieboy

I guess they would ban Adam Sandler's Channukah song, too: it is all about identifying Jewish celebrities...

[Video]

The SNL Celebrity Jeopardy version:

"Robert DeNiro...
Bela Lugosi...
Snuffleupagus...
and Parker Posey."

155 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:46:28pm

re: #147 WindUpBird

It's an amazing story alright, but one that story first made the rounds about a month ago. It has the potential to revolutionize certain cancer treatments, and could potentially reduce the cost for cancer treatments significantly (reducing need for chemo and radiation, although it is also likely to be used in conjunction with chemo and/or radiation to maximize successful remission).

Thing is that it was a very small sample size and they've got to run larger studies to confirm the findings and see if there are limitations to the success. Long term studies will also need to be done to see whether they can maintain remission for 5+ years.

156 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:46:37pm

or "Florida or Germany" for those of you into atrocity tourism

157 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:47:21pm

re: #151 engineer dog

a 35-year-old Franco-British engineer of Jewish origin

these days identity issues can be quite complicated

i had a professor in college who was a gay dude from a jewish family, originally from greece, that had moved to france where he had grown up. he dexcribed himself to me as a "frenco-american greek-jewish homosexual"

How ever did he fit in his shirt??
/

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:47:36pm

re: #155 lawhawk

I'm just floored by the futuristic ingenuity of it, regardless of whether it's truly reliable as a treatment or not :D

159 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:48:15pm

re: #151 engineer dog

a 35-year-old Franco-British engineer of Jewish origin

these days identity issues can be quite complicated

i had a professor in college who was a gay dude from a jewish family, originally from greece, that had moved to france where he had grown up. he described himself to me as a "franco-american greek-jewish homosexual"

I remember when "Franco-American" was a really crappy brand of canned spaghetti.

160 Buck  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:48:29pm

re: #127 NJDhockeyfan

'Jew or Not Jew' app pulled by Apple after racism complaints

TMZ plays that game all the time.

161 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:48:45pm

re: #159 Alouette

I remember when "Franco-American" was a really crappy brand of canned spaghetti.

Not to say that there is any brand of canned spaghetti that isn't crappy.

162 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:49:23pm

re: #159 Alouette

I remember when "Franco-American" was a really crappy brand of canned spaghetti.

You think it's gotten better!?!?
/

163 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:50:16pm

re: #153 WindUpBird

I prefer to play "Dead Or Canadian"

I'm with you as long as it's a Remote Control episode that had Kari Wührer on it.

164 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:50:38pm

re: #161 Alouette

Not to say that there is any brand of canned spaghetti that isn't crappy.

Why is it that spaghetti sauce bought in a jar isn't necessarily bad (depends on the brand) but if the noodles are in there, it's bad.

165 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:51:00pm

Well lookey here

Looks as if wifey has booked tickets to see Tony Bennett!

166 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:51:09pm

re: #160 Buck

So did Howard Stern to great effect.

167 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:51:46pm

re: #163 ArchangelMichael

I'm with you as long as it's a Remote Control episode that had Kari Wührer on it.

ahahaha i totally watched Remote Control

168 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:52:30pm

re: #164 EmmmieG

Why is it that spaghetti sauce bought in a jar isn't necessarily bad (depends on the brand) but if the noodles are in there, it's bad.

BOG NOODLES IS RIPPING US OFF!!

(and btw ,, the only jarred sauce thats any good is the Classico brand, imho)

169 Kragar  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:52:38pm

re: #166 lawhawk

So did Howard Stern to great effect.

With Kurt Waldheim Jr and the KKK guy.

170 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:54:14pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

baba booey

171 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:54:16pm

re: #168 sattv4u2

BOG NOODLES IS RIPPING US OFF!!

(and btw ,, the only jarred sauce thats any good is the Classico brand, imho)

We like Newman's marinara.

I suppose, technically, that is a marinara sauce, not spaghetti.

172 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:54:29pm

re: #150 Alouette

If somebody doesn't actively practice Judaism or identify with "The Tribe," then whose freaking business is it if their grandmother was Jewish or not?

That reminds me of something I recently read in The Economist:

If he needs a refuge, Colonel Muammar Qaddafi might consider the Israeli town of Netanya. An Israeli family of Libyan origin has recently surfaced saying they are the colonel’s relatives and that he should think of making aliyah (the Jewish voyage of return) and claim Israeli citizenship as any Jew may do under Israeli law. Gita Boaron told Israeli television she shares a great-grandmother with the colonel. “She fled her Jewish husband for a Muslim sheikh,” she says. “Her daughter was the colonel’s mother, making him Jewish under rabbinic law.”

Some jokers suggest that Mrs Boaron’s family want a share of the gold the colonel is said to be carrying. But others say there may be a more solid claim. “Jews from Tripoli remember he attended a Jewish wedding in the 1960s, long before he became leader,” says Pedazur Benattia, founder of Or Shalom, a centre that promotes Libyan-Jewish culture in Israel.

In Netanya, a resort north of Tel Aviv, where many of the 100,000-odd Israeli Jews of Libyan origin have settled, a square has been called Qaddafi Plaza in anticipation of his arrival. “Whatever he’s done, Israel’s his home,” says Rachel, a widow sipping her macchiato, Libya’s beverage of choice, and nibbling abambara, a Libyan-Jewish pastry in one of the square’s Libyan-owned cafés. “After all, he’s a Jew.” With his curls, she says, he would fit into many a Libyan synagogue.

[Link: www.economist.com...]

173 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:55:26pm

re: #159 Alouette

I remember when "Franco-American" was a really crappy brand of canned spaghetti.

i've never heard of french spaghetti outside of the can version...

174 sattv4u2  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 12:58:30pm

re: #173 engineer dog

i've never heard of french spaghetti outside of the can version...

The French lost their rights to spaghetti after they signed the treaty ending the great Franco-American Pasta wars

175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:01:16pm

re: #150 Alouette

I think it's really pathetic and creepy to make a big deal out of which celebrities have "Jewish" ancestry, whether it's for hate or for "pride." If somebody doesn't actively practice Judaism or identify with "The Tribe," then whose freaking business is it if their grandmother was Jewish or not?

I find it very creepy, and with some seriously nasty historical precedents.

There needs to be a remake of "'Taint Nobody's Business if I Do".

176 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:11:10pm

re: #14 Eric J

OT ( so soon?) How does one respond to this? What does this mean, has this guy gone off his meds?

[Link: www.climatedepot.com...]

It means he's a stickler for the meaning of "incontrovertible". Nothing in science is in principle utterly and forever incontrovertible.

Physicists, by profession, have very little tolerance for infelicities with the evidence. This guy is at the far end of a spectrum that's already skewed by the standards of the discourse of daily life.

The evidence is, however, quite strong and sufficient to justify acting now. As to ocean level rises, the majority view is that current ocean trends are diagnostic but not in themselves dangerous.

Some of the talking points circulating among AGW activists run ahead of the evidence. Just for example, the claim that atmospheric oxygen levels are dropping. It's quite true. BUT---the drop is tiny. It's diagnostic but is not in and of itself dangerous. Talk of sea level rise can also be misunderstood. The rise measured in the 20th century, if it were to be repeated for the next ten centuries, would not be all that hard to adjust to.


For things to get serious sea-level-wise, what has to happen is that much of the Greenland ice cap melts. For that to happen, temperatures in the surrounding waters need to rise. And for that to happen at a brisk pace, summer icecaps have to retreat. That way, the sun can warm the dark open waters of the summer arctic sea. The trend is self-reinforcing and can thus hit a much more rapid pace than it now exhibits.

Even now, it is outpacing its previously projected course. But the sea level rise won't kick into high gear until [until---not unless---because these things follow out of each other] the other pieces of the machinery click into place.

Trouble is, by the time that happens and we have direct evidence of more rapid rises in sea level, it will be too late to avert its running to completion. Quite possibly, it's already too late when it comes to Greenland, and there will be hell to pay. But the danger becomes radically greater if the Antarctic ice cap were to melt. That, we can almost surely still avert.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:17:23pm

re: #7 NJDhockeyfan

She's a 9-11 truther, believes in chemtrails, and thinks the FBI is listening in on her phone calls. She's nuts.

Well, she sounds nuts, but I can sort of understand people who want something to blame for their child's problems.

Chemtrails are another matter.

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:22:55pm

re: #11 lawhawk

I cited to the VAERS database the other day and that no cases of mental retardation were reported in connection to Gardasil vaccinations. None. Zip. Zilch.

The VAERS database is designed to allow doctors to report all side effects experienced - regardless of whether there was causality. If an ailment occurred following the dose, it's reported.

So, if Bachmann's anecdote is to be believed, someone would have had experienced mental retardation after taking the vaccine, but no one reported this to VAERS. That's possible, but highly unlikely.

There are side effects relating to Gardasil, but mental retardation isn't one of them.

There have been some reports of blood clots in females after receiving Gardasil. These clots have occurred in the heart, lungs, and legs. Most of these people had a risk of getting blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (the birth control pill), smoking, obesity, and other risk factors. That could potentially cause a stroke and therefore result in mental incapacity, but we'd need to know more specifics.

And yet the benefits still outweigh the side effects, which are largely minor (and the label warns about the possibility for blood clots and falls). The vaccine prevents a disease, cervical cancer, that affects 12,000 women annually. Many more are affected by HPV, the virus that is linked to cervical cancer.

OK, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone suffers mental retardation during puberty and beyond. Brain damage, maybe, but 'mental retardation'a as such--no.

I'm wondering if what we'll find here is a child considered to have borderline intellectual function who got formally diagnosed as mildy retarded around the time she was vaccinated. Mom doesn't understand the diagnosis, or that this rests on a difference of couple of tested IQ points (I think it's still pretty much just that), and flips--the kid, in her mind was not retarded before, is retarded now--and blames the Gardasil.

This could also have been totally made up, but if there's a story in there, I'm betting that's what happened.

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:24:02pm

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Southern Baptist Convention: Rick Perry is George W Bush without the education, compassion, or snobby east coast upbringing

I agree with them. This does not endear him to me much.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:25:12pm

re: #17 uncah91

Charles,

In this case, I don't really think it has much to do with religion. This is really a distrust if the "establishment". On the left it manifests as a belief that government is controlled by shadowy forces in big business and that this is the reason for all ills, and on the right it manifests that "big government" is trying to destroy us for mysterious reasons...

I have to agree with this. Too many crazy lefty anti-vaxers who aren't formally religious.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:26:08pm

re: #19 William of Orange

I weep for you. A society taken hostage by the religious right.

We're not exactly hostages, we're just trying to share the house--which currently requires sleeping with one eye open, and spending a lot of time defending our access to the bathroom and fridge.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:32:47pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

Nicolas Cage awoken by naked man with Fudgesicle

Jesus. I would have lost my mind.

183 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:36:17pm

re: #176 lostlakehiker

Some of the talking points circulating among AGW activists run ahead of the evidence. Just for example, the claim that atmospheric oxygen levels are dropping. It's quite true. BUT---the drop is tiny. It's diagnostic but is not in and of itself dangerous.

You have completely missed the point. If you look at the Keeling curves you see a rise in CO2 coupled by a decline in O2.

That is important because when you burn carbon compounds you use oxygen to do it. If you look at the ratios of decline in O2 with the rise in CO2, you see direct evidence that the carbon concentrations are coming from burning.

When you look at the burning by-products and radio isotopes, you find that what is being burnt is very old carbon compounds - i.e. fossil fuels.

This is direct evidence of man caused AGW. For you to dismiss that is very sloppy on your part.

184 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 1:39:50pm

re: #176 lostlakehiker

Look at the two curves together:

[Link: ossfoundation.us...]

185 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 2:38:38pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't think that point was missed. It wasn't addressed except to confirm true. The statement was that the drop is inconsequential as far as oxygen breathing life is concerned. Presumably some people are saying that we will have trouble breathing soon.

186 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 3:17:46pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

You have completely missed the point. If you look at the Keeling curves you see a rise in CO2 coupled by a decline in O2.

That is important because when you burn carbon compounds you use oxygen to do it. If you look at the ratios of decline in O2 with the rise in CO2, you see direct evidence that the carbon concentrations are coming from burning.

When you look at the burning by-products and radio isotopes, you find that what is being burnt is very old carbon compounds - i.e. fossil fuels.

This is direct evidence of man caused AGW. For you to dismiss that is very sloppy on your part.

I don't in one whit dismiss that AGW is caused by man. My point was that the decline in O2 is diagnostic, not in and of itself likely to drive down O2 levels in the atmosphere to where we can't get our breath.

In other words, on the substance of what is happening, and based on what I wrote then as well as on this post, we are in complete agreement.

The reduction in O2 is real, it's caused by man, and it's further proof that the rise in CO2 we're seeing is caused by burning stuff other than wood.

All I'm saying is that when talking about O2 reduction, it's a good idea to make clear, en passant, that the reduction isn't going to make us all need supplementary oxygen to go about our daily lives. The equivalent change in altitude, due to the observed changes in O2 level, must be something on the order of a few inches. Or feet...I haven't done the arithmetic.

187 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 3:23:50pm

re: #168 sattv4u2

The only brand I will use. (See the Cookbook Vol. 2)

188 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 15, 2011 3:29:03pm

down 0.03 percent
At roughly 19000 feet, air density is 0.45 of sea level. Extrapolating gives a reduction of roughly 0.0004 percent oxygen per foot of elevation. This means that we're all breathing air that's depleted in its O2 content the same as if we had gained about 8 feet altitude.

That's further confimation of AGW. AGW is dangerous. This O2 decline, though, is not in and of itself dangerous.

But some people are talking as if it were. That's not helpful.

chicken little's web page

Professor Ralph Keeling of Scripps Institute is worried. In fact, he's very worried.

According to the data Keeling has meticulously collected since 1989 the world is running out of breathable air—and the rate that it's losing oxygen is now on the verge of accelerating.

Monitoring oxygen levels around the world is Keeling's job. He's very good at his job. And the data confirms that Earth's oxygen supply is dwindling.

Keeling created the famous ' Keeling Curve,’ a graph that extrapolates the current trend of the oxygen depletion in the atmosphere.

[ The Cape Grim Observatory chart also depicts the ongoing depletion of breathable oxygen in the atmosphere.]

Less oxygen equals less life

I'm morally certain that Keeling has been grossly misquoted here, of course.

189 Unsympathetic  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:43:28am

The unfortunate part about the wingnuttery approach to the vaccine: They've got the religion wrong in addition to the science. Their interpretation of the Bible is flawed on many levels.

The chief question when you hear someone talking nonsense about "what God wants": How does this (suffering, death, etc) bring me closer to an understanding of God's ideal?

Does God want you to have a deadly disease?
Does God want you to die?
Does God want you to feel bad about yourself for having a disease?

Or does an old person want to control one more thing about your life? Gosh, I almost wonder which one Occam's Razor leaves us with.

I'm religious and proud of it - it's my life. Science does, in fact, defend the Bible. This is called apologetics. Of course, you wouldn't know that from the wingnut idiots - because they need to shut up and let the smart people talk.


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