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1 MicheleR  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:14:19pm

will they be able to determine cause if the destruction is total?

2 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:14:31pm

more tragedy...another freak thing

3 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:15:34pm

Jesus. My prayers with everybody affected and their families.

I saw the F-18 crash at the El Toro airshow. That was one of the worst I ever witnessed, and I never want to see another.

4 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:15:47pm

Been hearing on CNN that the pilot was declaring a mayday just prior to the crash and was making every effort to, if not save the bird, then to avoid hitting people on the ground. He could have possibly saved himself, bailing out while he still had the altitude, but he stayed with the bird all the way to the ground in the hopes of avoiding further deaths.

I'm feeling a lot of respect for the man right now.

5 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:16:18pm

re: #1 MicheleR

will they be able to determine cause if the destruction is total?

Plane-knowlegable people here? Can you say?

It seems to me that they find out an awful lot after crashes, even when there's been a lot of damage, but I don't know how far that goes?

6 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:16:33pm

A really freak thing.
Just awful.

7 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:16:52pm
8 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:17:00pm

re: #5 SanFranciscoZionist

Plane-knowlegable people here? Can you say?

It seems to me that they find out an awful lot after crashes, even when there's been a lot of damage, but I don't know how far that goes?

not likely at all

9 MicheleR  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:17:42pm

re: #5 SanFranciscoZionist
I know it will not bring anyone back who was lost, but many of you have mentioned the pilot, so I was wondering if a cause could be determined given the level of destruction

10 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:18:42pm

re: #5 SanFranciscoZionist

Plane-knowlegable people here? Can you say?

It seems to me that they find out an awful lot after crashes, even when there's been a lot of damage, but I don't know how far that goes?

They seem to be able to put the pieces back together, and find things that way. It's pretty amazing, the way these things are investigated - and of course, it's so time-consuming, it's no wonder these investigations take a long time.

In the video I saw, just before the plane comes down, there's a loud noise that doesn't seem to be coming from one of the planes being filmed, and somebody says (I can barely make it out, but it's there), "I wonder what that's all about?". I assumed it was in response to the noise.

Anyhow - this is just awful.

11 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:18:59pm

re: #5 SanFranciscoZionist

Plane-knowlegable people here? Can you say?

It seems to me that they find out an awful lot after crashes, even when there's been a lot of damage, but I don't know how far that goes?

They may be able to reconstruct a bit, and the FAA and NTSB will want witness accounts (sound of an explosion?)and what was said by the pilot when he declared a mayday. Unfortunately, the airplane disintigrated on impact and it may not be possible to really determine what happened.

12 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:19:18pm

Prayers and blessings for the families, loved ones of the injured & dead.
Such an awful tragedy.

13 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:19:35pm

re: #9 MicheleR

I know it will not bring anyone back who was lost, but many of you have mentioned the pilot, so I was wondering if a cause could be determined given the level of destruction

I doubt it. From the video, it looked like that plane completely disintegrated.

14 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:19:46pm

maybe the drive train and controls had a computer chip...a history

15 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:20:25pm

re: #5 SanFranciscoZionist

Plane-knowlegable people here? Can you say?

It seems to me that they find out an awful lot after crashes, even when there's been a lot of damage, but I don't know how far that goes?

Like Reine said, it's a matter of tracking down all the pieces, fitting them back together, and seeing what you come up with. So many factors here, from the age of the plane to the the pilot to the crash, that it could be years before we have a definitive answer.

16 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:21:04pm

By the by, I was a commercial aviation structural mechanic and I did not do forensic accident investigation. However, Imho, it doesn't look to me like the accident investigation team will have much of anything to work with.

17 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:23:12pm

Very sad. The crash at the KC air show has not had an official determination. However, the pilot's girlfriend said she had watched him practice many, many times, and he had never tried a third somersault in that part of the stunt. On the occasion of the crash, he had started a third one.

18 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:24:37pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like Reine said, it's a matter of tracking down all the pieces, fitting them back together, and seeing what you come up with. So many factors here, from the age of the plane to the the pilot to the crash, that it could be years before we have a definitive answer.

you have to have the black box to figure it out...without it, it's just an elaborate post crash set up...but that's commercial stuff

19 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:25:09pm

re: #17 prairiefire

Very sad. The crash at the KC air show has not had an official determination. However, the pilot's girlfriend said she had watched him practice many, many times, and he had never tried a third somersault in that part of the stunt. On the occasion of the crash, he had started a third one.

I wonder if the control linkages failed. I don't know if the P=51 uses cables or torsion links of some sort. I never worked on a Mustang. Anybody know?

20 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:25:35pm

re: #18 albusteve

you have to have the black box to figure it out...without it, it's just an elaborate post crash set up...but that's commercial stuff

You just answered what was gonna be my next question.

21 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:26:06pm

re: #18 albusteve

you have to have the black box to figure it out...without it, it's just an elaborate post crash set up...but that's commercial stuff

No flight control recorder on a racing bird. Too much weight and not required.

22 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:26:17pm

I know this is too soon.. But..Hold on
What race allows an 80 year old guy to fly or drive? This is stupid.. Just because you have a really hot plane doesn't mean you get to race it..
I say the cut-off is 50..but even then...Racing is a young mans sport.. Jimmy Johnson or Jeff Gordan.. Racing is a young person's sport.. And to allow an 80 yr old that owns a powerful P-51 to race? Are you freaking kidding me?

23 wee fury  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:27:07pm

If Leeward was in communication with the field prior to the crash . . . that may give an indication as to what went wrong.

24 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:28:24pm

re: #22 HoosierHoops

I know this is too soon.. But..Hold on
What race allows an 80 year old guy to fly or drive? This is stupid.. Just because you have a really hot plane doesn't mean you get to race it..
I say the cut-off is 50..but even then...Racing is a young mans sport.. Jimmy Johnson or Jeff Gordan.. Racing is a young person's sport.. And to allow an 80 yr old that owns a powerful P-51 to race? Are you freaking kidding me?

There are federal regulations on how old commercial passenger pilots may be. There are no regulations that I know of regarding maximum age on a PPL.

25 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:30:40pm

re: #22 HoosierHoops

I know this is too soon.. But..Hold on
What race allows an 80 year old guy to fly or drive? This is stupid.. Just because you have a really hot plane doesn't mean you get to race it..
I say the cut-off is 50..but even then...Racing is a young mans sport.. Jimmy Johnson or Jeff Gordan.. Racing is a young person's sport.. And to allow an 80 yr old that owns a powerful P-51 to race? Are you freaking kidding me?

I posted this downstairs - his Facebook page.

The dude looked nowhere near 80.

26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:31:29pm

re: #22 HoosierHoops

Age may have had zero to do with the crash. Before we put all those old boys in hangars, let's see if we can figure out what happened.

Sometimes? Machines just break and there's nothing that a forty year old, much less 80 year old pilot can do about it.

27 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:31:39pm

re: #24 celticdragon

Regular health exams are required to keep a PPL.

28 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:33:00pm

re: #23 wee fury

If Leeward was in communication with the field prior to the crash . . . that may give an indication as to what went wrong.

I just heard part of an interview Anderson Cooper did with the PR person for the races - the guy said there was a Mayday call prior to the crash; and the pilot pulled out of the race (he somehow pulled out of and away from the circle they were using for this event).

29 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:33:06pm

re: #22 HoosierHoops

Hoops take a look at what the FAA requires in medical exams, annually as I recall. And yes, please wait, it may well have been a mechanical. Wait and see what really did this. It's not easy to keep your license and certification by aircraft type.

[Link: www.faa.gov...]

30 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:33:37pm

re: #27 dell*nix

Regular health exams are required to keep a PPL.

True. There just isn't anything tied specifically to age, as in you cannot fly after age such and such.

31 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:33:59pm

At this point I don't think the right knee-jerk reaction is to limit pilot's ages.

Keeping the planes farther away from spectators seems like the appropriate knee-jerk reaction, however.

32 wee fury  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:34:10pm

re: #28 reine.de.tout

I just heard part of an interview Anderson Cooper did with the PR person for the races - the guy said there was a Mayday call prior to the crash; and the pilot pulled out of the race (he somehow pulled out of and away from the circle they were using for this event).

Thanks.

33 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:35:26pm

re: #31 JasonA

At this point I don't think the right knee-jerk reaction is to limit pilot's ages.

Keeping the planes farther away from spectators seems like the appropriate knee-jerk reaction, however.

Indeed. However, as has been pointed out, when you deal with machines moving at 500 MPH, moving the audience far enough away to be safe means you simply don't have an audience at all.

34 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:35:41pm

re: #31 JasonA

At this point I don't think the right knee-jerk reaction is to limit pilot's ages.

Keeping the planes farther away from spectators seems like the appropriate knee-jerk reaction, however.

that's no fun...racing is dangerous and the fans know it, the whole point is to get as close as you can

35 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:36:52pm

re: #31 JasonA

At this point I don't think the right knee-jerk reaction is to limit pilot's ages.

Keeping the planes farther away from spectators seems like the appropriate knee-jerk reaction, however.

In a mishap the planes could go a mile or more. There is a requirement already, we got stricter rules after the Italian demo team midair, at a German show I think.

36 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:37:28pm

re: #31 JasonA

At this point I don't think the right knee-jerk reaction is to limit pilot's ages.

Keeping the planes farther away from spectators seems like the appropriate knee-jerk reaction, however.

Absolutely, if it's possible. He had pulled out of the race and apparently happened to be near the grandstand when he had to pull out, and so there might have been only one way he could go (over the grandstand area).

People do not necessarily turn to absolute mush when they're 80.
Some are mush by the time they're 50.
Others are fine at 80; and these health certifications are required annually, and are not easy to pass if you're not in condition.

37 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:38:17pm

re: #28 reine.de.tout

I just heard part of an interview Anderson Cooper did with the PR person for the races - the guy said there was a Mayday call prior to the crash; and the pilot pulled out of the race (he somehow pulled out of and away from the circle they were using for this event).

So he knew something was wrong with the bird just he lost total control. And he had enough control to begin pulling away.

38 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:38:55pm

re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #27 dell*nix

Hi Guys! It doesn't really matter does it? These are the most powerful prop planes invented by man and they are racing..Not cruising over the countryside..
Racing is a young mans sport and an 80 year old man has no business up there.. This isn't NASCAR.. Crap they don't even have real wings.. They are going 450+ MPH feet off the ground.. An 80 yr old pilot? oh jeez.. This is sad and changes need to be made

39 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:40:09pm

It didn't look to me like they were flying very high off the ground to begin with.

Every pilot I've ever talked to has told me that if something goes wrong with the plane, he wants to be as far up as possible, to allow sufficient time to recover or figure out what to do.

Since they were flying low - this guy apparently pulled out of the race, ascended, then came down. He simply may not have had enough space between himself and the ground to do much about whatever it is that went wrong with his plane.

40 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:40:45pm

re: #38 HoosierHoops

And that is why there is no F1 Auto racing in the USA.
We either need to accept the risk, or forgo the pleasure.
It's a choice.

41 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:41:09pm

re: #37 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So he knew something was wrong with the bird just he lost total control. And he had enough control to begin pulling away.

he would have instantly known something was wrong...doing anything about is another matter

42 wee fury  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:42:02pm

RIP Pilot Leeward.

43 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:42:58pm

re: #38 HoosierHoops

re: #27 dell*nix

Hi Guys! It doesn't really matter does it? These are the most powerful prop planes invented by man and they are racing..Not cruising over the countryside..
Racing is a young mans sport and an 80 year old man has no business up there.. This isn't NASCAR.. Crap they don't even have real wings.. They are going 450+ MPH feet off the ground.. An 80 yr old pilot? oh jeez.. This is sad and changes need to be made

Hm. These are also planes that were designed about 70 years ago. Maybe something needs to be done in that area.

44 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:43:44pm

re: #43 JasonA

Hm. These are also planes that were designed about 70 years ago. Maybe something needs to be done in that area.

Bear in my mind I know nothing about the safety record of the P-51 and may be completely off base here.

45 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:43:50pm
A total of 22 victims are currently being treated.

Renown has confirmed that 9 patients are critical and 11 fair and 2 dead at this time.


Multiple fatalities at the Reno Air Races after an Unlimited plane P-51 crashed into the box seats directly infront of the master of ceromony soon after take-off.

According to the Director of Communications at Renown, Kathy Carter, they are under 'code triage' which means extra available personnel will be called in and extra beds will be made available.

Renown has been told to expect 80-100 injured.

46 jaunte  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:44:11pm

re: #40 Floral Giraffe

And that is why there is no F1 Auto racing in the USA.
We either need to accept the risk, or forgo the pleasure.
It's a choice.

Unfortunately, Texas has decided we need F1 racing more than schools.
Texas Taxpayers Finance Formula One Auto Races as Schools Dismiss Teachers

47 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:44:22pm

I gotta ask the folks who are focusing on the man's age: Do you think a 40 year old guy would have been any more able to avoid a mechanical malfunction?

I watch NASCAR, and I know that mechanical failures are not something you can predict or prepare for when you're moving at high speeds. A steering linkage fails, it doesn't matter if you're a snot-nosed rookie or a grizzled vet, you're going for a ride.

48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:45:29pm

I just read that the Jimmy Leeward was a stunt pilot in the movie "Amelia". It was made in 2009.

The dude must've had some serious chops to be hired as a stunt pilot at the age of 78.

I'm just sayin'.

49 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:45:37pm

re: #42 wee fury

RIP Pilot Leeward.

Indeed. I flew a Cherokee pa28 in my teen years. I so miss piloting.
Most pilots will fly it in to avoid people. There is a special responsibility that goes with being a pilot. That is why you can see great conversations between the hottest fighter pilot and a guy that flies a Cessna for fun when he or she can.

50 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:45:52pm

re: #43 JasonA

Hm. These are also planes that were designed about 70 years ago. Maybe something needs to be done in that area.

no way...after modifications these planes are multi million dollar racers...they don't just break on schedule...something serious went wrong...the guy came out of a turn and went to flatten out then jammed himself straight up, and for some reasoned rolled and splashed...a very curious episode

51 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:47:02pm

re: #47 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Actually, I think his experience is more valuable because of his age.
But, that's just me.

52 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:47:12pm

re: #47 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask the folks who are focusing on the man's age: Do you think a 40 year old guy would have been any more able to avoid a mechanical malfunction?

I watch NASCAR, and I know that mechanical failures are not something you can predict or prepare for when you're moving at high speeds. A steering linkage fails, it doesn't matter if you're a snot-nosed rookie or a grizzled vet, you're going for a ride.

it makes a huge difference regarding the G forces

53 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:47:55pm
6:36 p.m. update: An 80-year-old pilot who has been flying since he was 18 slammed his modified aircraft into the tarmac after his aircraft appeared to malfunction.

Witnesses described carnage in the stands after the "Galloping Ghost", flown by Jimmy Leeward, slammed into the ground and shattered into millions of pieces. Debris then flew into the stands, sending shrapnel toward spectators.

"There were lots of bodies with missing parts," said Greg Schwab of Provo, Utah, who had blood on his shirt and arms from helping some of the injured around him.

Schwab was sitting in the front row of the box seats and was saved by ducking around a corner. When he stood up he went out to help, but found what he could only describe as carnage.

"I did not see a single person standing."

Also sitting nearby Greg Erny, 57, of Reno, who said the plane appeared to go climb, then dove into the ground.

Marshall Carter was working on some fuel tanks nearby said he saw the plane pull up, "and it looked like he had major mechanical malfunction, like the controls failed."

Carter said the plane was about 100 feet off the ground and was rolling over at that point. It appeared he purposely pulled back on the stick so the plane went into the ground, instead of the stands, saving hundreds of lives.

Greg Erny, 57, who was sitting in the VIP section, said the plane disintegrated as its pieces flew into the crowd.

54 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:48:27pm

re: #47 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask the folks who are focusing on the man's age: Do you think a 40 year old guy would have been any more able to avoid a mechanical malfunction?

I watch NASCAR, and I know that mechanical failures are not something you can predict or prepare for when you're moving at high speeds. A steering linkage fails, it doesn't matter if you're a snot-nosed rookie or a grizzled vet, you're going for a ride.

QFT.

I'll say it again - this guy was no frail old man. People seem to be looking at the number and overlooking that he was one of the most highly regarded air racers in this country.

55 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:48:50pm

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

Indeed. I flew a Cherokee pa28 in my teen years. I so miss piloting.
Most pilots will fly it in to avoid people. There is a special responsibility that goes with being a pilot. That is why you can see great conversations between the hottest fighter pilot and a guy that flies a Cessna for fun when he or she can.

all so true...I had pilots in my family and my friends as well...it's a unique thing

56 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:49:01pm

re: #51 Floral Giraffe

Actually, I think his experience is more valuable because of his age.
But, that's just me.

I think we share the idea that we would go to an air race or show tomorrow and accept the risk, small but significant. Heck people get hurt at ball games. Fans understand.

57 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:49:41pm

re: #40 Floral Giraffe

And that is why there is no F1 Auto racing in the USA.
We either need to accept the risk, or forgo the pleasure.
It's a choice.

My Dear...I've been to 3 F1 races..They go about a third of the speed and everybody is a young person to handle the machines.. You know..In their 20's mostly.. Well in almost all sports...I feel safe saying this.. Old people don't race...I never trusted my Grandma to drive the speed limit much less going into corners at 500 MPH..
Allowing an 80 yr. old senior to race is scandalous and I don't care if he had bombing missions in the 1940's over Berlin and owns the fastest P-51 ever made..Do whatever owner has ever done in all racing history.. Hire a young stud to fly/drive/ride..
*waves*

58 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:49:49pm

re: #53 reine.de.tout

like a huge bomb detonating in their midst...just awful

59 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:50:10pm

re: #52 albusteve

it makes a huge difference regarding the G forces

From all sounds, if g forces played a factor, it was that the bird just couldn't take them anymore. If the control cables snapped, then it didn't matter if there was a corpse at the controls, there was no bringing it down safely.

60 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:50:26pm

The crash happens around 39:20 of this video. NOT for the squeamish.

[Link: www.livestream.com...]

61 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:50:31pm

re: #50 albusteve

no way...after modifications these planes are multi million dollar racers...they don't just break on schedule...something serious went wrong...the guy came out of a turn and went to flatten out then jammed himself straight up, and for some reasoned rolled and splashed...a very curious episode

He initially may have been trying to get some altitude to try to deal with whatever problem he was having - going back to what I said earlier - I worked with pilots of small planes (fire spotter planes), and they all said they wanted as much altitude as possible if there was a problem, for time to deal with it or figure out what to do.

62 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:51:53pm

re: #57 HoosierHoops

Hello, you!

63 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:52:54pm

re: #54 makeitstop

QFT.

I'll say it again - this guy was no frail old man. People seem to be looking at the number and overlooking that he was one of the most highly regarded air racers in this country.

so what?...his arteries are brittle and weak, his heart is not as strong as it was, he can't hold his breath under extreme pressure like he used to...there is plenty of room for speculation

64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:54:04pm

I'm one of those guys who wants old folks (over 75) to have annual driving tests. Once they're done? Take their keys. Period.

There are 80 year old guys who drive better than most 30 year-olds. To take their licenses would be a travesty.

My FIL (whom I admire and adore) drives about 15 miles under the speed limit everywhere he goes. But he's done that since I've known him (he was 50 when I met him).

Drives me nuts. I want to take his keys on principle alone.

65 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:54:28pm

re: #59 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

From all sounds, if g forces played a factor, it was that the bird just couldn't take them anymore. If the control cables snapped, then it didn't matter if there was a corpse at the controls, there was no bringing it down safely.

climbing produces G's...my guess is that if the controls snapped the flaps and rudder went into neutral default

66 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:54:47pm

re: #47 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask the folks who are focusing on the man's age: Do you think a 40 year old guy would have been any more able to avoid a mechanical malfunction?

I watch NASCAR, and I know that mechanical failures are not something you can predict or prepare for when you're moving at high speeds. A steering linkage fails, it doesn't matter if you're a snot-nosed rookie or a grizzled vet, you're going for a ride.

good point.. But...80 effen years old? For all we know he was napping...80 yrs old going 500 MPH in a race? Please tell me this isn't true..I figure once you are on Medicare your racing days are over...

67 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:55:05pm

re: #57 HoosierHoops

Well Hoops it only took a couple years and a few thousand posts to actually disagree with ya strongly.
*chuckles a bit*

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:55:40pm

re: #60 JasonA

I'm adverse to death porn.

Not a shot at you, but I hate that these things are available for folks to watch within hours of such a tragedy.

69 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:56:07pm

re: #64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

THE hardest thing to do with an elder, is take away their car keys. It means taking away their independence. Imagine, not being able to buy your own groceries?

70 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:57:07pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

He initially may have been trying to get some altitude to try to deal with whatever problem he was having - going back to what I said earlier - I worked with pilots of small planes (fire spotter planes), and they all said they wanted as much altitude as possible if there was a problem, for time to deal with it or figure out what to do.

air means life for a pilot

71 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:57:17pm

re: #66 HoosierHoops

good point.. But...80 effen years old? For all we know he was napping...80 yrs old going 500 MPH in a race? Please tell me this isn't true..I figure once you are on Medicare your racing days are over...

You're thinking of Tim Conway as the old man as the pilot. Doesn't appear to be the same type of guy.

72 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:57:30pm

re: #66 HoosierHoops

LOL!
Call me when you're 80 & want to go racing!

73 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:58:00pm

re: #67 Rightwingconspirator

Well Hoops it only took a couple years and a few thousand posts to actually disagree with ya strongly.
*chuckles a bit*

Love ya man! It's been a long week..I'm so tired that it's Friday night and I'm not going out...Hope you are well

74 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:58:19pm

re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm adverse to death porn.

Not a shot at you, but I hate that these things are available for folks to watch within hours of such a tragedy.

It was streamed live, I think. Not like someone said "Hey, let's put all this carnage up!"

75 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:59:34pm

Hoops, everything I'm hearing about this guy leads me to believe that he was the best man to have in that cockpit.

76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:59:34pm

re: #64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, what I meant by "once they're done" meaning unable to pass the test, not simply when they're done with the test to take their keys anyway.

77 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:59:58pm

re: #73 HoosierHoops

I am very well, enjoying a short trip away from home with D_L. You be well too. Have some fun, get some rest. It's the weekend.

78 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:00:36pm

re: #74 JasonA

Oh, I know. Just not gonna watch it. I feel terrible for the families who will watch it over and over; unable to look away.

79 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:01:01pm

re: #76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, what I meant by "once they're done" meaning unable to pass the test, not simply when they're done with the test to take their keys anyway.

This will never ever ever ever happen.

Know why?

Because old people vote.

True story.

80 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:01:57pm

re: #65 albusteve

climbing produces G's...my guess is that if the controls snapped the flaps and rudder went into neutral default

I have to respectfully disagree on the Gs, because if he was in such poor health that those Gs would have killed him that quickly, then I doubt they'd have let him in the cockpit to begin with. I have very sincere doubts that his crew or his family would allow him to fly if they thought he'd croak under the G-loads associated with the race.

81 Gus  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:04:19pm

Crap.

82 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:06:04pm

re: #75 JasonA

Hoops, everything I'm hearing about this guy leads me to believe that he was the best man to have in that cockpit.

Yes.. I hope I didn't come off so obtuse...I just never heard of an 80 yr. old guy racing.. I think there should be an age limit to race high powered planes or race cars...even race horses.. Guess I can't over the 80 yr old racer..I think it wasn't his fault..Yet we will know something in the coming months...I don't think Chuck Yeagar would ever do that..And he is America's greatest Pilot..
OK I'll shut up now...:)

83 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:06:06pm

re: #80 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I have to respectfully disagree on the Gs, because if he was in such poor health that those Gs would have killed him that quickly, then I doubt they'd have let him in the cockpit to begin with. I have very sincere doubts that his crew or his family would allow him to fly if he they thought he'd croak under the G-loads associated with the race.

much younger pilots fly their planes into the ground...as the years go by, the risk goes up.....whatever caused the plane to bust and go into a climb like that is yet to be determined...but you simply cannot discount science

84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:07:52pm

re: #79 JasonA

This will never ever ever ever happen.

Know why?

Because old people vote.

True story.

Ya think?!?!

85 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:08:34pm

re: #82 HoosierHoops

Yes.. I hope I didn't come off so obtuse...I just never heard of an 80 yr. old guy racing.. I think there should be an age limit to race high powered planes or race cars...even race horses.. Guess I can't over the 80 yr old racer..I think it wasn't his fault..Yet we will know something in the coming months...I don't think Chuck Yeagar would ever do that..And he is America's greatest Pilot..
OK I'll shut up now...:)

Well, it's starting to make me wonder about the demographics of air racing. I'm sure he must be on one end of the bell curve, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear that the average age is rather high compared to other sports.

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:09:03pm

re: #82 HoosierHoops

First time I've disagreed with you, bud. Now, go get you some Sooner tail!

87 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:09:29pm

re: #60 JasonA

The crash happens around 39:20 of this video. NOT for the squeamish.

[Link: www.livestream.com...]

Amazing how quickly they had emergency folks there.

88 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:10:13pm

re: #82 HoosierHoops

Yes.. I hope I didn't come off so obtuse...I just never heard of an 80 yr. old guy racing.. I think there should be an age limit to race high powered planes or race cars...even race horses.. Guess I can't over the 80 yr old racer..I think it wasn't his fault..Yet we will know something in the coming months...I don't think Chuck Yeagar would ever do that..And he is America's greatest Pilot..
OK I'll shut up now...:)

At the age of 74, Yeager flew a F-15D to Mach one, as part of a celebration of his record-setting flight 50 years prior.

'Course, we're not talking the old crotchety guy down the street who steps out into the sun long enough to grab the mail and yell at the kids to get off his lawn, we're talking about men who work to keep themselves in the best physical condition possible at their ages. Sudden Death Syndrome isn't a shock at that age, but it doesn't make it the automatic conclusion.

89 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:10:37pm

re: #87 reine.de.tout

They've had problems in the past, and are prepared.
Good for them!

90 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:11:10pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

At the age of 74, Yeager flew a F-15D to Mach one, as part of a celebration of his record-setting flight 50 years prior.

'Course, we're not talking the old crotchety guy down the street who steps out into the sun long enough to grab the mail and yell at the kids to get off his lawn, we're talking about men who work to keep themselves in the best physical condition possible at their ages. Sudden Death Syndrome isn't a shock at that age, but it doesn't make it the automatic conclusion.

Yeah, Leeward wasn't exactly the guy from Up...

91 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:11:10pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

At the age of 74, Yeager flew a F-15D to Mach one, as part of a celebration of his record-setting flight 50 years prior.

'Course, we're not talking the old crotchety guy down the street who steps out into the sun long enough to grab the mail and yell at the kids to get off his lawn, we're talking about men who work to keep themselves in the best physical condition possible at their ages. Sudden Death Syndrome isn't a shock at that age, but it doesn't make it the automatic conclusion.

was he racing at 500ft?

92 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:14:01pm

Since the topic of people driving too slowly came up...


Amish men jailed over refusal to use orange safety triangle on buggies

Seriously, these guys can get off the damn road if they don't like the rules.

93 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:15:04pm

re: #91 albusteve

was he racing at 500ft?

Don't know, Wiki doesn't elaborate. But pushing an F-15 up to Mach speeds is by no means easy going. Not when you've got 25,000 lbs of thrust kicking you in the ass.

94 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:15:17pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thanks for that post..
I read his book several times when I was young...A true American Hero...

95 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:15:27pm

google G force...
there is a lot of full throttle turning in pylon racing...you must be very stout to deal with it

96 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:17:28pm

re: #93 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Don't know, Wiki doesn't elaborate. But pushing an F-15 up to Mach speeds is by no means easy going. Not when you've got 25,000 lbs of thrust kicking you in the ass.

yes, it is easy going, especially not flying sideways or downhill

97 albusteve  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:23:04pm

my neighbor can play the drums like Ginger Baker

98 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:27:04pm

re: #95 albusteve

google G force...
there is a lot of full throttle turning in pylon racing...you must be very stout to deal with it

My research has pulled up somewhere around 3-5gs in the turns, nothing about climbing however. But again, we're not talking ye olde guy off the street, we're talking about a man who does this sort of stuff on a very regular basis. And it wouldn't explain the reported "explosion," nor the sudden actions by the plane. Something mechanical happened here, and if his health was involved, it was only a contributing factor rather than the primary one.

99 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:27:21pm

re: #97 albusteve

my neighbor can play the drums like Ginger Baker

Does he play double Bass drum? My great regret was letting Jordan play the drums.. Went through years of Hell listening to him and I tried..Steve I tried to teach him how to stay in the pocket..He just never got it...

100 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:28:53pm

re: #85 JasonA

Well, it's starting to make me wonder about the demographics of air racing. I'm sure he must be on one end of the bell curve, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear that the average age is rather high compared to other sports.

When the primary requirement isn't raw athletic ability but the means to own ungodly expensive equipment, yeah that would be my guess.

101 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:37:20pm

I don't know who this girl is that is doing stand up.. But she is funny.. I feel better.. I'm still not going out..
So she is talking about Meth labs in Missouri..
I'll never do any drug that involves Rednecks and Science...
She is funny..Don't you wish you could be a fly on the wall to hear what was said before the lab blew up?

102 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:41:47pm

re: #101 HoosierHoops

I think it was "oops"!

103 Gus  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:42:46pm

re: #98 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

My research has pulled up somewhere around 3-5gs in the turns, nothing about climbing however. But again, we're not talking ye olde guy off the street, we're talking about a man who does this sort of stuff on a very regular basis. And it wouldn't explain the reported "explosion," nor the sudden actions by the plane. Something mechanical happened here, and if his health was involved, it was only a contributing factor rather than the primary one.

I'll wait for the NTSB to determine the cause. That may take anywhere from a few months to a year. Otherwise, it's really not a good idea to even begin to attempt to determine the cause of the accident. It could have been due to a number of factors. Assuming that he crashed because of his age reeks of hysteria and crowd like mentality. What is lost in physicality is offset with experience.

104 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:43:46pm

re: #102 Floral Giraffe

I think it was "oops"!

"SHI-!!! {BOOOM!}

105 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:44:49pm

re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"SHI-!!! {BOOOM!}

Hand me some more alcohol and turn that shit up dude

106 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:45:45pm

Well...I guess with racing experts like Hoosierhoops and a few others on here, we needn't bother with the NTSB investigation. Just blame the tragedy on the old guy. It's not like 20-somethings have ever crashed in anything.

Not to get in the way of your knee-jerkery, but maybe you geniuses could be bothered to take a look at the requirements for entering the race?
[Link: www.airrace.org...]

107 Gus  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:45:59pm

Presser live...

[Link: airrace.org...]

108 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:46:09pm

re: #105 HoosierHoops

Hand me some more alcohol and turn that shit up dude

109 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:49:56pm

How horrible.

110 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:52:44pm

re: #79 JasonA

This will never ever ever ever happen.

Know why?

Because old people vote.

True story.

True that. The preferences of those who votes dictate the laws.

111 jaunte  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:53:04pm
112 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:53:10pm

re: #106 3CPO

Well...I guess with racing experts like Hoosierhoops and a few others on here, we needn't bother with the NTSB investigation. Just blame the tragedy on the old guy. It's not like 20-somethings have ever crashed in anything.

Not to get in the way of your knee-jerkery, but maybe you geniuses could be bothered to take a look at the requirements for entering the race?
[Link: www.airrace.org...]

I never claimed to be an expert..I have tried to be fair but amazed and only pointed out my shock at his age...He is an American Hero if he flew P51's..Lord have mercy on everybody there...
Before you ever accuse me of Knee Jerkery..again.. You just go a head and post links of races that allow 80 yr. olds to race at close to 500 MPH..
I was shocked..

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:53:10pm

re: #76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, what I meant by "once they're done" meaning unable to pass the test, not simply when they're done with the test to take their keys anyway.

Some friends of the family have an elderly mother in Germany, who continued to drive into her late eighties with a driver's license issued to her by the Weimar Republic. On the Autobahn.

They were pretty stressed, until she promised to stop driving on the Autobahn at night.

114 MichaelJ  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:54:11pm
115 Gus  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:54:43pm

BTW, Jimmy Leeward was 74.re: #112 HoosierHoops

I never claimed to be an expert..I have tried to be fair but amazed and only pointed out my shock at his age...He is an American Hero if he flew P51's..Lord have mercy on everybody there...
Before you ever accuse me of Knee Jerkery..again.. You just go a head and post links of races that allow 80 yr. olds to race at close to 500 MPH..
I was shocked..

He was 74.

116 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:55:02pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

I never claimed to be an expert..I have tried to be fair but amazed and only pointed out my shock at his age...He is an American Hero if he flew P51's..Lord have mercy on everybody there...
Before you ever accuse me of Knee Jerkery..again.. You just go a head and post links of races that allow 80 yr. olds to race at close to 500 MPH..
I was shocked..

He apparently was 74, not 80.

117 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:55:33pm

re: #106 3CPO

Why don't you try being nicer to Hoops? downding.

118 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:56:02pm

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

There is NOTHING more difficult than taking away an elders car keys.
NOTHING.
The loss of independance, is horrifying.

119 Big Joe  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:56:59pm

From CNN,

The aircraft was about a lap into the race when the pilot sent out a "Mayday signal" and pulled "out of the lap" before crashing into a box seat area that is in front of a grandstand at the "very large race field," located about 15 miles north of Reno, Draper said.

It doesn't sound like a health issue; most likely a mechanical problem

120 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:57:21pm

re: #118 Floral Giraffe

There is NOTHING more difficult than taking away an elders car keys.
NOTHING.
The loss of independance, is horrifying.

My grandmothers have the sense to not drive certain routes. Coming to my house is one of them; the one while she was alive, and the other now, get rides with my parents.

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:58:02pm

re: #92 JasonA

Since the topic of people driving too slowly came up...

Amish men jailed over refusal to use orange safety triangle on buggies

Seriously, these guys can get off the damn road if they don't like the rules.

I understand the problem but:

1. These things are hideous, so putting them on your buggy can't be considered vanity.

2. Traffic regulations are one of those 'render unto Caesar' situations.

122 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:58:31pm

re: #118 Floral Giraffe

There is NOTHING more difficult than taking away an elders car keys.
NOTHING.
The loss of independance, is horrifying.

Assuming you can do it. I've known cases where the person's children couldn't do it, because the elder simply had still enough money that he could tell them to get lost, and would rather do that than be humiliated.

123 jaunte  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:59:28pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

They got the vanity issue wrong on that one.

124 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:59:56pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

You HAVE to do it, at a certain point.
Public safety, if for no other reason.
( I didn't say liability,but that's there too.)
It's really hard.

125 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:00:31pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

Apparently they allow 80-year-olds to race planes, and it would probably be easier for me to find statistics on younger people crashing things with fatal results than to find other octogenarian crashes.

If you don't like being blamed for knee-jerk comments...stop making them.

I agree with you on one thing...Lord have mercy...

126 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:01:08pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

I understand the problem but:

1. These things are hideous, so putting them on your buggy can't be considered vanity.

2. Traffic regulations are one of those 'render unto Caesar' situations.

Agreed. If you are using a public road, you need to obey the law. If you don't like the law, then don't use the road. Having you vehicle be properly visible at night is a necessity.

127 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:02:20pm

In most States, seniors have to "re-up" their drivers licenses by actually taking a driving test. Makes it soo much easier on the family. The State determines if they are safe drivers. Then they can't blame their children for taking the keys away.

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:02:53pm

I'm not going to click on videos. Too much.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:03:03pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

I understand the problem but:

1. These things are hideous, so putting them on your buggy can't be considered vanity.

2. Traffic regulations are one of those 'render unto Caesar' situations.

And, because people are insane, third comment down:

Redneck louie: im agonna email them amishers the first chanct i gets

Thank you for helping, Louie. That was hilarious.

130 Gus  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:03:31pm

@bebird bebird
Type O blood is needed desperately at Reno hospitals pls RT

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:04:37pm

After my Dad's first stroke, he asked the doctor if he could drive. The doctor said he'd let the Police Dept make that decision and signed a form for my Dad to take to the DMV. He passed the driving test. WE were all amazed.

He got a license that limited his driving to day light hours and no highway. IIRC.

132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:06:46pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

Assuming you can do it. I've known cases where the person's children couldn't do it, because the elder simply had still enough money that he could tell them to get lost, and would rather do that than be humiliated.

Lovely. No person is rich enough to tell me to get lost when they're risking other people's lives with their reckless entitlement issues.

133 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:09:45pm

I know I am coming in on this a bit late. My prayers are with all of those who were hurt or died and those who witnessed this horrible event.

134 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:11:59pm

re: #125 3CPO

Apparently they allow 80-year-olds to race planes, and it would probably be easier for me to find statistics on younger people crashing things with fatal results than to find other octogenarian crashes.

If you don't like being blamed for knee-jerk comments...stop making them.

I agree with you on one thing...Lord have mercy...

Fair enough.. Perhaps to you it would be knee jerk to comment on a really old guy 74 or so flying a high powered fighter in a race..
i am shocked!
Did I once say the reason for the crash was because he is older than f*ck? No.. I never did..I'll pray for his family tonight...
It's sad..
And I'll say this once again.. I've hung out at tracks..How many times did I live Blog from Indy? Dozens of times..Even during the race..
I'll tell you something right now that some people don't get..
Racing is a young persons sport...period...I'm sorry I offended some..I'm just tired

135 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:14:17pm

re: #132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lovely. No person is rich enough to tell me to get lost when they're risking other people's lives with their reckless entitlement issues.

I hear you, but the simple fact is that the sort of "intervention" that Floral describes isn't really possible if they person you want to help has money of their own and would respond to your efforts by cutting off or minimizing contact with you. In those cases, a "go soft" approach is the only option.

136 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:15:59pm

I got to get up early tomorrow. Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

137 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:16:38pm

re: #125 3CPO

Apparently they allow 80-year-olds to race planes, and it would probably be easier for me to find statistics on younger people crashing things with fatal results than to find other octogenarian crashes.

If you don't like being blamed for knee-jerk comments...stop making them.

I agree with you on one thing...Lord have mercy...

The only knee-jerk thing I saw was you and your knee-jerk reaction to a conversation people were having.

You prefer, I take it, to come into the room and have everybody ooh and ahh at your brilliance???

I like Hoops, he's a good and decent person. And your comments to him, about him, were uncalled for and, well, the marks of a real jerk making knee-jerk statements.

138 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:17:08pm

Old people on the road are nowhere near as dangerous as the under 21-25 crowd. It's really no contest, no matter how annoying it might be when you're puttering behind them doing 20 in a 35...

139 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:17:21pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

HEH.
*Smooch*
because.

140 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:21:42pm

re: #139 Floral Giraffe

HEH.
*Smooch*
because.

I love your kindness...I have a birthday next week.. I'll call you from Bricktown from some Karaoke joint...Love ya!

141 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:25:18pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

Racing is a young persons sport...period...I'm sorry I offended some..I'm just tired

Found at Wiki....... "Big Daddy" Don Gartlits......

"At the age of 71 years, 5 months and 19 days he qualified 16th setting a personal best speed in the quarter mile with a time of 4.788 seconds at 319.98 miles per hour. Garlits had reached 323.04 earlier in the year at the 2003 Gatornationals. Mr. Garlits lost in first round competition with his Summit Racing-Mono Winged Dragster with a 0.064 reaction time, a personal best 4.737 elapsed time, at 307.44 miles per hour to Brandon Bernstein's (son of racing legend Kenny Bernstein,) Budweiser/Lucas Oil Dragster 0.079 reaction time, a 4.615 elapsed time, at 321.42 miles per hour. The difference at the finish line was 107 thousandths of a second."

107 thousands of a second....... I'd say the old guy lost a step.

At 77 "In September 2009, Garlits returned to the quarter mile, racing a specially prepared 2009 Dodge Challenger in the stock eliminator class at the U.S. Nationals in Indianapolis, IN."

142 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:26:58pm

re: #137 reine.de.tout

I'm sorry...I didn't realize I'd registered (quite a few months ago) and blundered into a private sewing circle. How monstrous of me!

What I prefer is that people stop making snap decisions in the midst of a tragedy on a subject they know little or nothing about. Air races are to NASCAR what airplanes are to cars. Very different set up.

...and whether you're dazzled by my brilliance or offended by my jerkerey (Jerkiness?) really doesn't matter to me...but thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation...

143 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:27:35pm

re: #140 HoosierHoops

You call me from these HORRIBLE "joints".
SIGH.
*smooch*

144 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:31:03pm

re: #142 3CPO

I'm sorry...I didn't realize I'd registered (quite a few months ago) and blundered into a private sewing circle. How monstrous of me!

What I prefer is that people stop making snap decisions in the midst of a tragedy on a subject they know little or nothing about. Air races are to NASCAR what airplanes are to cars. Very different set up.

Ah. So you want it to be YOUR sewing circle, run the way YOU want. I see.

...and whether you're dazzled by my brilliance or offended by my jerkerey (Jerkiness?) really doesn't matter to me...but thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation...

You're welcome.

145 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:31:10pm

re: #140 HoosierHoops

I love your kindness...I have a birthday next week.. I'll call you from Bricktown from some Karaoke joint...Love ya!

[Video]

Hurray for Virgos! Mine's next week, too.

146 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:31:52pm

re: #142 3CPO

May I suggest a book for you . . .

147 Achilles Tang  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:32:02pm

re: #66 HoosierHoops

good point.. But...80 effen years old? For all we know he was napping...80 yrs old going 500 MPH in a race? Please tell me this isn't true..I figure once you are on Medicare your racing days are over...

Reading the responses to this; he wouldn't have been napping I'm sure, but the chances of his having a stroke or heart attack are certainly much greater than that of a younger person, and this is a very strenuous enterprise to compete in, whether due to speed or G forces.

I agree that nobody that age, regardless of experience, should be allowed to participate in a race that risks anyone other than themselves.

Either the mechanics screwed up the maintenance or the pilot died in flight, since this was clearly not a matter of simple misjudgment by the pilot.

Which is most likely?

148 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:33:34pm

re: #142 3CPO

I'm sorry...I didn't realize I'd registered (quite a few months ago) and blundered into a private sewing circle. How monstrous of me!

What I prefer is that people stop making snap decisions in the midst of a tragedy on a subject they know little or nothing about. Air races are to NASCAR what airplanes are to cars. Very different set up.

...and whether you're dazzled by my brilliance or offended by my jerkerey (Jerkiness?) really doesn't matter to me...but thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation...

You know what? That was rude...There is no private sewing circle here and you need not be offensive to Reine...
Your points are well taken. Let's drop it..K?

149 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:35:51pm

re: #144 reine.de.tout

I can't figure out whether you just have reading comprehension trouble or control issues. Who said I wanted to run anything?

Oh....you did.

150 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:35:56pm

re: #138 JasonA

Old people on the road are nowhere near as dangerous as the under 21-25 crowd. It's really no contest, no matter how annoying it might be when you're puttering behind them doing 20 in a 35...

No kidding. I can't tell you how many news reports I've heard where someone under 21 plowed through a crowd of people or a store front, killing a bunch of people, because they mistook the gas pedal for the break pedal.

Oh, wait...

151 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:36:34pm

re: #145 prairiefire

LOL! I'm on the 5th of Sept.
Virgos ROCK!

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:36:43pm

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

I hear you, but the simple fact is that the sort of "intervention" that Floral describes isn't really possible if they person you want to help has money of their own and would respond to your efforts by cutting off or minimizing contact with you. In those cases, a "go soft" approach is the only option.

In Illinois, IIRC, you can notify the State Police or the Secretary of State (I forget which) that you are concerned about a senior's driving and they can make them come in for a driving test (are requirement or some such thing, I forget how they work it). They don't know you are the one that tipped the authorities.

153 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:37:37pm

re: #142 3CPO

You're a pig.
re: #149 3CPO

Rude too.

154 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:37:50pm

re: #147 Naso Tang

Reading the responses to this; he wouldn't have been napping I'm sure, but the chances of his having a stroke or heart attack are certainly much greater than that of a younger person, and this is a very strenuous enterprise to compete in, whether due to speed or G forces.

I agree that nobody that age, regardless of experience, should be allowed to participate in a race that risks anyone other than themselves.

Either the mechanics screwed up the maintenance or the pilot died in flight, since this was clearly not a matter of simple misjudgment by the pilot.

Which is most likely?

Who knows. I'm guessing they'll investigate the shit out of it and come to some sort of conclusion.

155 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:38:29pm

re: #149 3CPO

I can't figure out whether you just have reading comprehension trouble or control issues. Who said I wanted to run anything?

Oh...you did.

From your 142, your words:

What I prefer is that people stop making snap decisions in the midst of a tragedy on a subject they know little or nothing about.

You prefer something else, so you come in being snide and rude to those here.

But I do have reading comprehension problems, it's well known.

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:38:54pm

re: #150 Slumbering Behemoth

No kidding. I can't tell you how many news reports I've heard where someone under 21 plowed through a crowd of people or a store front, killing a bunch of people, because they mistook the gas pedal for the break pedal.

Oh, wait...

Had one of those recently in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland. Kid was driving way too fast for a curve on local roads. Destroyed a house. Luckily the whole family had just gone to the back yard for a picnic. First room hit was the nursery. During the day, no alcohol or drugs. Driver was killed. 18 years old.

Speed kills at any age.

157 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:39:08pm

re: #138 JasonA

Old people on the road are nowhere near as dangerous as the under 21-25 crowd.

They certainly win the willfully reckless douchebaggery awards, but when older drivers fail, it tends to be in a frighteningly spectacular manner:

Customers at a cycling shop in California escape serious injury after an 86-year-old woman accidentally drives her car into the premises.

Video at link. There is practically no daylight between the old woman's speeding SUV and those customers who very nearly got flattened!

...and in a sign that I perhaps spend far too much time here, my first thought (on hearing what type of establishment got the crash-test treatment) was of wrenchwench.

158 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:39:43pm

re: #148 HoosierHoops

Initially this had nothing to do with her, but she decided to ride to your "rescue" with a post that had nothing to do with the original issue.

Really dude, there's nothing to "drop". I haven't responded to your last because I've already attempted to make my point and I see we're just going to disagree.

I get that you want to defend your internet friend, but you still don't get to tell me what to do. Feel free to drop it at any time...

159 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:39:49pm

re: #155 reine.de.tout

But I do have reading comprehension problems, it's well known.

Um , I call BS on that!
BIG TIME!

160 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:39:59pm

re: #148 HoosierHoops

You know what? That was rude...There is no private sewing circle here and you need not be offensive to Reine...
Your points are well taken. Let's drop it..K?

Good idea, Hoops. I'm angry now so I'll just bow out altogether.

Rudeness like that is a bullying tactic; and I do not like bullies. But that's the end of it for me. I'm out for awhile.

161 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:40:10pm

re: #156 ggt

Did he mistake the gas pedal for the brake pedal? I'm guessing no.

162 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:40:24pm

re: #157 publicityStunted

They certainly win the willfully reckless douchebaggery awards, but when older drivers fail, it tends to be in a frighteningly spectacular manner:

Video at link. There is practically no daylight between the old woman's speeding SUV and those customers who very nearly got flattened!

...and in a sign that I perhaps spend far too much time here, my first thought (on hearing what type of establishment got the crash-test treatment) was of wrenchwench.

This is true, but the youngins make up for it in quantity.

163 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:40:36pm

re: #142 3CPO

I'm sorry...I didn't realize I'd registered (quite a few months ago) and blundered into a private sewing circle. How monstrous of me!

What I prefer is that people stop making snap decisions in the midst of a tragedy on a subject they know little or nothing about. Air races are to NASCAR what airplanes are to cars. Very different set up.

...and whether you're dazzled by my brilliance or offended by my jerkerey (Jerkiness?) really doesn't matter to me...but thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation...

It's not your blog. It is Charles's blog.

What you prefer is of no consequence.

164 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:40:47pm

re: #153 Floral Giraffe

Name calling! So hurtful! I bet all your imaginary friends are chuckling at your cleverness!

165 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:40:59pm

re: #163 ggt

WOOT!

166 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:41:40pm

re: #164 3CPO

You are a rude fucktard.
And,if the shoe fits.
Think you'll last till morning here?

167 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:41:46pm

re: #161 Slumbering Behemoth

Did he mistake the gas pedal for the brake pedal? I'm guessing no.

It was all from driving too fast.

168 Achilles Tang  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:42:02pm

re: #150 Slumbering Behemoth

No kidding. I can't tell you how many news reports I've heard where someone under 21 plowed through a crowd of people or a store front, killing a bunch of people, because they mistook the gas pedal for the break pedal.

Oh, wait...

Like I said, from what I have seen, this was no matter of mistaking pedals. Either the pilot failed, completely, or the plane failed, completely.

I'm sorry, but the average life expectancy in the USA is 78. I don't know the reason for this crash, but I know that the simple odds are for the pilot failing rather than an airplane that is probably better taken care of than most people's children.

169 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:42:32pm

And driving far below the speed limit? Just as dangerous and deadly as speeding, if done on the highway.

170 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:42:51pm

re: #163 ggt

On that we agree.

171 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:43:17pm

What a terrible catastrophe.

172 Achilles Tang  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:43:33pm

re: #154 Mr Pancakes

Who knows. I'm guessing they'll investigate the shit out of it and come to some sort of conclusion.

I suspect so.

173 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:43:51pm

re: #151 Floral Giraffe

LOL! I'm on the 5th of Sept.
Virgos ROCK!

Someone has to be meticulous and well dressed!

174 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:44:02pm

re: #149 3CPO

This protocol droid is malfunctioning. Have its memory wiped and then give it a clean operating program download.

/Stay on Target!

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:44:02pm

Maybe everyone can take a deep breath now?

176 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:44:13pm

re: #168 Naso Tang

Meh. I jumped into the tail of this thread on the comment of elderly drivers. I was not making a comment that was intended to be relevant to the plane crash. Sorry.

177 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:45:06pm

re: #166 Floral Giraffe

I don't know...I expect your trove of witticisms will run out long before then...

178 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:45:27pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

*smooch*
And, well kissed!
Waves hello!

179 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:45:38pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

Maybe everyone can take a deep breath now?

I smoke too much for that. Would a shallow wheeze be satisfactory?

180 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:46:15pm

re: #177 3CPO

LOL!
So, Which Stalker are you?

181 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:47:27pm

re: #164 3CPO

182 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:48:33pm

re: #177 3CPO

This thread won't end well for you if you keep going after Floral.

183 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:49:06pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

[Video]

Oh man..... I hate that butthurt thing, that is so 2009....... I thought you were going post something from Star Wars!

184 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:49:15pm

re: #180 Floral Giraffe

No one of any importance.

...I started reading Charles' blog some time ago (and even posted here and there). I find that I agree with a lot of the things he says, and I have many of the same worries about the absence of a coherent conservative viewpoint in the country. So...a lot of what he went through when he broke with the current Right resonates with me.

I mean...since you asked so nicely...

185 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:49:31pm

re: #179 Slumbering Behemoth

Speaking of health issues, did you find any kind of remedy for the shoulder pain you were having? I recall it having something to do with PC-related repetitive strain, so perhaps you could look into an ergonomic keyboard or mouse.

186 Achilles Tang  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:49:51pm

re: #177 3CPO

I don't know...I expect your trove of witticisms will run out long before then...

*sigh*

To you and responders. Stop wasting bandwidth like this.

187 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:49:59pm

So the family watched the Comedy Central Roast of David Hasselhoff tonite. Thanks to the Lizard Nation, all I could think of the whole time was:

oogga chakka

188 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:50:44pm

re: #183 Mr Pancakes

Oh man... I hate that butthurt thing, that is so 2009... I thought you were going post something from Star Wars!

Sorry.

189 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:50:48pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

Wow....a true internet tough guy! I've read tales about people like you...

Good luck with all that. Besides, who went after who? Maybe you should catch up before you leap in, hero.

190 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:50:59pm

Jebus. What have I walked into?

Anyway, my muscle pain has subsided a bit. Staying off the pc helps. I decided to do some yard work on my grandma's property (she doesn't drive anymore btw), and discovered how out of shape I have gotten over the last handful of years. My heart was flopping around in my chest like an angry fish on meth. Wake up call.

191 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:51:38pm

re: #190 Slumbering Behemoth

Jebus. What have I walked into?

Anyway, my muscle pain has subsided a bit. Staying off the pc helps. I decided to do some yard work on my grandma's property (she doesn't drive anymore btw), and discovered how out of shape I have gotten over the last handful of years. My heart was flopping around in my chest like an angry fish on meth. Wake up call.

This getting old stuff sucks rocks doesn't it?

192 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:52:08pm

re: #190 Slumbering Behemoth

Jebus. What have I walked into?

Anyway, my muscle pain has subsided a bit. Staying off the pc helps. I decided to do some yard work on my grandma's property (she doesn't drive anymore btw), and discovered how out of shape I have gotten over the last handful of years. My heart was flopping around in my chest like an angry fish on meth. Wake up call.

How's your blood pressure SB? That's the first thing to check methinks.

193 Achilles Tang  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:53:57pm

re: #192 Mr Pancakes

How's your blood pressure SB? That's the first thing to check methinks.

According to the TV, he should take an aspirin; but I don't have the space to list all the possible side effects, nor the lawyers that will take your case if you have any.

(I'm older BTW)

194 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:54:59pm

re: #187 ggt

So the family watched the Comedy Central Roast of David Hasselhoff tonite. Thanks to the Lizard Nation, all I could think of the whole time was:

oogga chakka

Don't forget... Charlie Sheen roast on Monday!

195 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:55:15pm

re: #194 JasonA

Don't forget... Charlie Sheen roast on Monday!

I KNOW!

Is he going to sing?

196 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:55:28pm

re: #186 Naso Tang

*sigh*

To you and responders. Stop wasting bandwidth like this.

Heh..... an old Usenet term when people were on dial up...... I tell ya..... I've been on a 300 baud modem..... took 5 minutes to send a post on a BBS.

197 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:56:34pm

re: #191 ggt

This getting old stuff sucks rocks doesn't it?

It sucks rocks, if you're lucky.

re: #192 Mr Pancakes

How's your blood pressure SB? That's the first thing to check methinks.

How does one check their own blood pressure? I know it can't be good. I drink and I smoke and I don't exercise. I still eat in a relatively healthy fashion, but that's only one leg of that chair.

198 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:56:38pm

re: #195 ggt

I KNOW!

Is he going to sing?

Screw that. Shatner will be in attendance. I want spoken word!!

199 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:56:57pm

re: #151 Floral Giraffe

LOL! I'm on the 5th of Sept.
Virgos ROCK!

August 24

200 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:57:05pm

re: #195 ggt

I KNOW!

Is he going to sing?

He can sing?
LOL!

201 Achilles Tang  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:57:34pm

re: #196 Mr Pancakes

Heh... an old Usenet term when people were on dial up... I tell ya... I've been on a 300 baud modem... took 5 minutes to send a post on a BBS.

I was being polite. It's ruder to say "my reading time" than "bandwidth".

202 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:57:44pm

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

It sucks rocks, if you're lucky.

re: #192 Mr Pancakes

How does one check their own blood pressure? I know it can't be good. I drink and I smoke and I don't exercise. I still eat in a relatively healthy fashion, but that's only one leg of that chair.

Try walking a little every day. Outside of your home -up and down the block or around the garage or something.

It's a start.

203 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:57:55pm

re: #189 3CPO

Friday Night Fights?
Rumble much?
Smackdown for you!

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:58:27pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

This thread won't end well for you if you keep going after Floral.

Basically, yes.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:58:52pm

re: #198 JasonA

Screw that. Shatner will be in attendance. I want spoken word!!

We watched the Shatner Roast too! (Netflix)

Lame, Shatner is so lame.

I seemed to be more a roast of gay men (because of Takei) than anything else. Didn't seem that funny to me.

206 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:59:22pm

re: #203 Floral Giraffe

Friday Night Fights?
Rumble much?
Smackdown for you!

Saturday Night's for fighting!

207 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:59:25pm

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

It sucks rocks, if you're lucky.

re: #192 Mr Pancakes

How does one check their own blood pressure? I know it can't be good. I drink and I smoke and I don't exercise. I still eat in a relatively healthy fashion, but that's only one leg of that chair.

Go to your local CVS and buy an Omron blood pressure monitor...... I think I picked mine up for under $40. 4 double A batteries...... very accurate. You should do it.

208 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:59:56pm

re: #189 3CPO

Jerk

Jerk is sarcastic, mean, unforgiving and never misses an opportunity to make a cutting remark. Jerk's repulsive personality quickly alienates other Warriors, and after some initial skirmishing he is usually ostracized. Still, Jerk is very happy to participate in electronic forums because in cyberspace he is free to be himself...without the risk of getting a real-time punch in the mouth

209 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:00:11pm

re: #199 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I KNEW there was more to you than Sci Fi!

210 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:00:47pm

re: #206 ggt

*smack*
LOL!

211 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:01:49pm

Friday night?

212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:01:59pm

Sadly, David Hassalhoff can sing and act --he has a degree in it from someplace, I can't remember.

Between drinking and getting lucrative, unchallenging parts, he is a joke.

213 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:02:27pm

re: #202 ggt

Here in the Central Valley the air quality is shit. The high pressure weather systems bring high temps and press the pollution down low. Not good for out door exercise.

I am currently trolling craigslist for used elliptical machines.

214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:02:30pm

re: #209 Floral Giraffe

I KNEW there was more to you than Sci Fi!

There are video-games too!

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:02:58pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth

Here in the Central Valley the air quality is shit. The high pressure weather systems bring high temps and press the pollution down low. Not good for out door exercise.

I am currently trolling craigslist for used elliptical machines.

May I suggest your local mall?

216 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:03:55pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth

I am currently trolling craigslist for used ...

That can be edited in creative ways!

217 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:04:24pm

re: #197 Slumbering Behemoth

It sucks rocks, if you're lucky.

re: #192 Mr Pancakes

How does one check their own blood pressure?

OMRON makes good affordable digital BP monitors, that's what I use. However it's best to take them into a doctor's office once and check them against the old fashioned mercury so you can get an accurate offset for the combination of you and your particular machine.

219 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:04:58pm

re: #214 ggt

There are video-games too!

And pron.

And total dedication to the Pope...

Wait, thats the Spanish Inquisition. Never mind.

220 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:05:15pm

re: #207 Mr Pancakes

Go to your local CVS and buy an Omron blood pressure monitor... I think I picked mine up for under $40. 4 double A batteries... very accurate. You should do it.

FORTY DOLLARS!!!11ty

I think I'll just go to Walgreen's and use their free one.
/

221 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:06:02pm
222 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:07:44pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

U.S. Day of Rage planned for Saturday — an Arab Spring in America?Uh, probably not.

Will Bill Ayers be involved?

(Meant as a slam against Ayers, having nothing to do with Obama.)

223 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:08:49pm

re: #217 goddamnedfrank

OMRON makes good affordable digital BP monitors, that's what I use. However it's best to take them into a doctor's office once and check them against the old fashioned mercury so you can get an accurate offset for the combination of you and your particular machine.

What I do..... is when I have a doctor's appointment I check my BP right before i go in...... They call my name and check my blood pressure with the hand pump type. I tell them what it's going to be and I'm usually within plus or minus two, to which I get a surprised look...... that's how I know the Omron is accurate. Same thing as you suggest..... only different, I like the element of surprise.

224 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:08:59pm

re: #220 Slumbering Behemoth

FORTY DOLLARS!!!11ty

I think I'll just go to Walgreen's and use their free one.
/

I tried one of those free one's once. Mine was so low (and normall is) it wouldn't read it. Basically said I was dead.

I had mine checked at the doctor's on Monday --after cigs and coffee it was 104/69.

225 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:09:09pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

U.S. Day of Rage planned for Saturday — an Arab Spring in America?Uh, probably not.

Bloomberg might beg to differ...

“You have a lot of kids graduating college can’t find jobs,” he said in response to a question about the poverty rate. “That’s what happened in Cairo. That’s what happened in Madrid,” he continued, referring to the uprising that overthrew President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt and the more recent protests against the Spanish government’s austerity measures. “You don’t want those kinds of riots here.”

226 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:09:09pm

re: #208 Dark_Falcon

And for you...
Palooka will battle anyone, anytime, anywhere - he seems to love it, even though he always takes a beating. After a terrific pounding at the hands of, for example, Kung-Fu Master, he'll just struggle to his feet and wobble back into the ring. His astonishing ability to absorb punishment leads one to suspect that during his long Warrior career Palooka has taken a few too many punches. Often, as an act of mercy, Nanny will step in to stop the fight.

Party like it's 1996...

227 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:09:31pm

re: #215 ggt

May I suggest your local mall?

That's where they herd the area's teenagers and hipsters. I dislike being around both breeds of cattle.

228 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:09:44pm

re: #220 Slumbering Behemoth

FORTY DOLLARS!!!11ty

I think I'll just go to Walgreen's and use their free one.
/

Yea.... you can do that..... but do it!

If it's high...... buy the machine.

229 blueraven  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:10:51pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

U.S. Day of Rage planned for Saturday — an Arab Spring in America?Uh, probably not.

Well I hope they do show up. This is, to me, one of the biggest concerns we face. Not only buying elections but writing the tax code, regulations and just about everything else our government does.
This year it will only get worse with all the big money expected with the super-pacs.

230 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:10:59pm

re: #227 Slumbering Behemoth

That's where they herd the area's teenagers and hipsters. I dislike being around both breeds of cattle.

Not during the school day . . . .They usually open it up early for the geriatric crowd to do their winter walking. Not that you'd qualify . . .

231 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:12:28pm

re: #211 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Does he have any songs without the word "party" in it?

232 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:12:40pm

re: #226 3CPO

LOL!
Hit me beat me, make me feel cheap.
You are so THERE, Dude!

233 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:13:06pm

re: #226 3CPO

Given who's getting the downdings, I'm going to label your post "projection".

234 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:13:21pm

re: #231 JasonA

Does he have any songs without the word "party" in it?

235 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:15:05pm

re: #231 JasonA

Does he have any songs without the word "party" in it?

Check out Andrew WK on FOX News....... classic I say!

236 reine.de.tout  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:15:05pm

Kung-Fu Master = the neighborhood bully.

237 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:15:20pm

re: #224 ggt

I tried one of those free one's once. Mine was so low (and normall is) it wouldn't read it. Basically said I was dead.

OMG!!! The Blogging Dead are among us!

238 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:17:54pm

re: #236 reine.de.tout

LOL!
Or, the neighborhood want to be bully!

239 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:18:04pm

Meanwhile, my youngest just danced off to bed singing in a little girl sing song the chorus of this song;

I blame it on Dr. Who.

240 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:18:34pm

re: #234 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well that concern has been cleared, leaving only the concern that you know way too many Andrew W.K. songs.

241 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:19:00pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

I guess neg ratings might matter if I really cared...but I don't. However, to continue your trip to the dark beginnings of internet chat, here's another entry from the Flame Warriors forum...

A Swarm hive is almost impossible to detect. When a hapless victim stumbles on a forum that houses a Swarm and disturbs it with an offending message, the Swarm will erupt and fly at their victim from all directions. Taken one at a time the irrelevant, often mindless individual attacks can be easily brushed aside, but because of the sheer volume of the assault even the strongest Warriors must eventually yield. WARNING: Only those who are highly skilled in Swarm management techniques should attempt to wade into a Swarm hive. but even with protective clothing opposing Warriors should expect to suffer a few stings.

Really...is all this stuff new to you? I guess the good news is you'll have a lot to click through. In a way you're like an interactive wayback machine...

Just not as interesting...

242 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:20:02pm

re: #237 Slumbering Behemoth

OMG!!! The Blogging Dead are among us!

Me and Varek . . .

:0

243 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:22:35pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OK, I just put that into my favorites, and, I liked you before, but now you are a HOOT!

244 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:23:05pm

re: #232 Floral Giraffe

I'm sure people made you feel cheap long before I got on the scene...

245 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:23:28pm

re: #241 3CPO

And you think your opinion is interesting, because?

246 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:23:34pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Meanwhile, my youngest just danced off to bed singing in a little girl sing song the chorus of this song;

[Video]I blame it on Dr. Who.

Thanks for that...... I guess I don't feel so bad now for teaching my kid the lyrics to Cannibal Corpse's "Meat Hook Sodomy".

247 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:24:03pm

re: #241 3CPO

It's not new to me. It's just useful for mocking you:

Target

Target is the guy everyone in a forum loves to hate. He brings this upon himself; he may be a known cheater in a game forum, a conservative among liberals, a Windows guy among Mac enthusiasts, or even a man in a women's forum. Why Target places himself in such dicey situations is anyone's guess, but he seems genuinely oblivious to the danger. When Warriors unleash their collective fury upon him his usual reaction is "Hey, what did I do?" or "Why do you all hate me?" Target eventually gets the hint after a while and moves on. NOTE: Target often serves as a useful pressure valve for the forum's pent up hostilities. Therefore, if the current Target has been driven off or immobilized a new target will be quickly selected. CAUTION: Target is a favorite disguise of Troller and Evil Clown.

248 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:24:06pm

re: #244 3CPO

But, I liked it when they did that!

249 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:24:53pm

re: #248 Floral Giraffe

Okay...THAT was funny!

250 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:25:51pm

My precognitive abilities are showing me a time-out coming in the not so distant future...

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:26:34pm

re: #250 JasonA

My precognitive abilities are showing me a time-out coming in the not so distant future...

You are able to do that?

252 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:27:00pm

re: #251 ggt

You are able to do that?

I is special.

253 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:27:11pm

re: #249 3CPO

I bet you like receiving spankings more than giving them.

254 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:27:53pm

re: #253 Floral Giraffe

I bet you like receiving spankings more than giving them.

*gasp* WHO TOLD YOU TH... oh, you're not talking to me...

255 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:28:23pm

Back to the elderly driver thing...

My family had my grandma's DL pulled some years back, and rightfully so IMO. Grandma was supper pissed, and fought for two years to get it back, even against the advice of her doctors.

She utterly failed several written exams in the process, until she finally passed one. Then she failed a few driving exams, one which ended before she even pulled out of the parking stall at the DMV because she nearly ran over a couple walking behind the car.

I was waiting for her at the DMV for her last driver's test. It was over a hundred degrees out, clear and sunny, and I saw her coming down the block with her windshield wipers on. Apparently they had been on for more than half of the test. She couldn't figure out how to turn them off. In her own car, that she had had for many years.

They passed her that day and gave her back her DL. We basically told the DMV folks that they would have to be responsible for whatever happened next.

Less than a year later, grandma had a panic attack behind the wheel, and gave up driving. I am grateful nothing terrible happened in the mean time. She definitely would have killed someone if she kept driving, and I know she would never be able to live with herself if she had.

256 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:30:19pm

re: #255 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes, you were lucky.
I have a GF who is in your position.
It's really hard.
God bless those who take care of their elders.

257 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:31:13pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

Well...in your case, since threats don't work, it's probably easier than thinking.

Tell me again how the thread will "end badly" for me, cupcake?

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:32:30pm

I guess we're NOT taking a deep breath.

259 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:32:38pm

re: #257 3CPO

Tell me again how the thread will "end badly" for me, cupcake?

It already has, sunshine. It already has.

260 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:33:12pm

I've been out of the loop today and I'm just catching up on this.

I am 62 and I have been flying for 43 years. I have never flown a P51 Mustang but I have flown a Skyraider and a T-28. I have a DC-3 type certificate. I also have an Airframe and Powerplant mechanic license, so I know a little something about this subject. Flying is not like driving. It requires good reflexes but not the same kind of instantaneous reflexes. Thinking ahead of where you are is much more important in flying. You have to be several minutes ahead mentally all the time, sometimes a lot more if you're flying a fast jet. If something comes up suddenly, as it apparently did in this case, the speed of response shown in an average driving emergency is probably going to be adequate. If you have a split second to act, you are too late. This is because aircraft respond more slowly than ground vehicles, but in vastly larger magnitude. If you move the stick suddenly, you will get a drastic response, but it is not like what happens if you swing the steering wheel of a car at anything above walking speed, where the results would always be disastrous.
I think this difference is why flying proficiency can be retained to a greater age than that of driving. When I was young, my brother got me involved in SCCA sports car racing (in an MGB). It was fun though I wasn't crazy about it and I wasn't especially good. I wouldn't try it now, though a few people my age do participate in these events. Otoh, I would be perfectly comfortable in any aircraft I have ever been qualified to fly.

It is much too soon, as always, to reach any conclusions about this accident. If, as reported, Mr. Leeward called a mayday, it would suggest there was something wrong with the plane rather than with him. He didn't just black out and go into the ground.

Having said all that, I am ambivalent about flying these old birds and especially about pylon racing and the highly modified aircraft used in these events. By modern standards, these planes were not really safe when they were new. There was a world war on, and the technology was being stretched to its absolute limits. Air power and air superiority were so important that risks had to be taken.
In restored "warbirds," the old aircraft's condition might as well be brand new and is not a factor if maintenance has been kept up. Some improvements in safety come from the mandatory use of modern equipment. Modern techniques of restoration can improve the reliability of certain components. Engine crankshafts don't break nearly as often as they did in the 40s, for example, even in 70 year old engines. This is simply because the manufacturing and inspection techniques have improved so much. The underlying technology is still ancient however and this fact must be treated with the greatest respect.
These aircraft are an important part of our heritage. We need to contemplate having at least some of them on hand, not for decades, but for thousands of years. The loss of one of these machines is irrevocable.
More than 15,000 P-51s were built in the US and Australia. A few hundred survive. Every time one crashes it is part of our heritage that is lost forever. We need to think long and hard about risking them for events that, even now, destroy 1 or 2 of them a year.

261 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:33:18pm

re: #253 Floral Giraffe

I bet you like receiving spankings more than giving them.

[Dark_Falcon hands Floral Giraffe The Paddle.]

262 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:33:18pm

bbiab

263 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:33:35pm

re: #257 3CPO

Well...in your case, since threats don't work, it's probably easier than thinking.

Tell me again how the thread will "end badly" for me, cupcake?

Dude.... never end a sentence with "cupcake?" in anger. It never ends well.

264 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:34:24pm

Suddenly...DRAMA

265 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:35:01pm

re: #257 3CPO

Let me put this sign up:

Do Not Feed The Troll

266 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:35:56pm

re: #256 Floral Giraffe

We have age limits for a reason. You have to be at least "this old" to drive, vote, drink, smoke, join the military, etc. We can tell young people they are too young to do certain things, and for good and logical reasons.

We need to seriously start looking at getting tough with upper age limits.

267 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:36:14pm

re: #263 Mr Pancakes

Who said I'm angry? This is nothing...

268 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:36:46pm

re: #264 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Suddenly...DRAMA

269 dell*nix  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:36:57pm

re: #260 Shiplord Kirel

I used to work on the armament systems on the T-28 once upon a time.

270 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:37:23pm

re: #260 Shiplord Kirel

Sadly, aircraft are not like tanks or jeeps. When a Sherman breaks down during an event run, it just stops. When a Sptfire breaks down during an event, it crashes. Your point is well taken.

271 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:37:27pm

re: #267 3CPO

You're not angry,
You just need to practice at sucking.
Here you go.

272 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:37:28pm

re: #266 Slumbering Behemoth

We have age limits for a reason. You have to be at least "this old" to drive, vote, drink, smoke, join the military, etc. We can tell young people they are too young to do certain things, and for good and logical reasons.

We need to seriously start looking at getting tough with upper age limits.

I said it before and I'll say it again: what you're talking about is made just that much harder to do because they vote.

273 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:38:26pm

re: #266 Slumbering Behemoth

We have age limits for a reason. You have to be at least "this old" to drive, vote, drink, smoke, join the military, etc. We can tell young people they are too young to do certain things, and for good and logical reasons.

We need to seriously start looking at getting tough with upper age limits.

Careful dude..... you are on a rocket sled on rails to not being able to do anything.

274 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:39:16pm

re: #271 Floral Giraffe

I think you've got that covered already...but I must decline.

Standards, you know...

275 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:42:02pm

re: #274 3CPO

GAZE

276 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:43:22pm

re: #272 JasonA

I said it before and I'll say it again: what you're talking about is made just that much harder to do because they vote.

Too true. And sad, really. Not sad that they vote, but sad that some can't accept certain things need to be done on the top end of the age bracket just as they are done on the bottom end.

re: #273 Mr Pancakes

Careful dude... you are on a rocket sled on rails to not being able to do anything.

Indeed, as are we all from the very day we are born. But that sled don't stop just because we want it too, and neither should common sense laws.

277 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:46:20pm

Why does this suddenly seem fitting?

278 Digital Display  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:46:47pm

re: #267 3CPO

Who said I'm angry? This is nothing...

Fair enough..I don't know why you jumped in so hard..It's been a long night..I never attacked you.. I just *gasp* expressed an opinion..And you responded..But factually.. Most every Lizard here disagreed with me.. In fact strongly...Some say....FBV even said after almost 30000 he did.. I accept that..I just reacted to a near 80 year old man racing at 500 MPH...
At least I was honest..Torpedoes be damned..:)

279 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:46:52pm

re: #226 3CPO

I think he's drunk.

280 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:47:36pm

re: #274 3CPO

OOoh, you mean like kiss my ass>?

281 3CPO  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:48:24pm

re: #278 HoosierHoops

Points for your honesty. I apologize for my part in upsetting you.

Pax

282 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:49:12pm

re: #277 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nice to see someone taking up my slack on the "dick joke" front in my absence.

283 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:52:06pm

re: #282 Slumbering Behemoth

Nice to see someone taking up my slack on the "dick joke" front in my absence.

We've all got to be ready to step up when duty calls.

284 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:52:13pm

re: #280 Floral Giraffe

I got my digital camera handy, let's make this happen!

285 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:53:03pm

re: #283 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We've all got to be ready to step up when duty calls.

Yeah man, you were totally Johnny on the spot with the dick joke. Way to run that one up the flag pole.

286 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:53:28pm

re: #283 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We've all got to be ready to step up when duty calls.

We've all got to be ready to step up (and stand at attention) when duty calls.

287 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:53:37pm

re: #285 JasonA

Yeah man, you were totally Johnny on the spot with the dick joke. Way to run that one up the flag pole.

Johnny on the Spot?

288 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:54:22pm

re: #287 ggt

Johnny on the Spot?

Never heard that before?

289 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:54:42pm

re: #288 JasonA

Never heard that before?

Yes, just not in a long time.

:)

290 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:55:18pm

re: #287 ggt

Johnny on the Spot?

If you're lucky.
:P

291 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:56:12pm

re: #289 ggt

Yes, just not in a long time.

:)

I may have watched Saving Private Ryan recently...

292 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:56:35pm

re: #285 JasonA

Yeah man, you were totally Johnny on the spot with the dick joke. Way to run that one up the flag pole.

Whenever a thread calls out for a dick joke, I'll be there.

Whenever a guy says something awkward, I'll chime in with a "That's what she said."

Whenever someone asks what I'm doing later, I'll say "Your mom."

This, I do solemnly swear.

293 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:59:41pm

re: #287 ggt

Johnny on the Spot?

Oddest scale military model ever made? 1/35 VPI2688 Johnny on the Spot Portable Toilet, Iraq-Afghanistan. This is completely real. It is made for diorama builders

294 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 9:59:55pm

re: #292 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #292 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We know this, and we love this about you!
Honest< i just introduced my new man, to you.

295 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:00:52pm

re: #291 JasonA

I may have watched Saving Private Ryan recently...

I did just the other day.........

I dislike Matt Damon (anything he does) and I was sorry to see Tom Hanks (in the movie) die for him..... if you haven't seen the movie, sorry for the spoiler.

296 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:00:57pm

re: #292 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ur Mom

297 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:01:44pm

re: #295 Mr Pancakes

I did just the other day...

I dislike Matt Damon (anything he does) and I was sorry to see Tom Hanks (in the movie) die for him... if you haven't seen the movie, sorry for the spoiler.

Gave you a point for honesty, but I don't share your Damon dislike.

298 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:02:20pm

re: #295 Mr Pancakes

I did just the other day...

I dislike Matt Damon (anything he does) and I was sorry to see Tom Hanks (in the movie) die for him... if you haven't seen the movie, sorry for the spoiler.

TOM HANKS IS DEAD?!?!?!

299 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:02:34pm

re: #292 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Whenever a thread calls out for a dick joke, I'll be there.

Whenever a guy says something awkward, I'll chime in with a "That's what she said."

Whenever someone asks what I'm doing later, I'll say "Your mom."

This, I do solemnly swear.

in bed?

300 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:02:45pm

re: #298 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

TOM HANKS IS DEAD?!?!?!

Yes..... you didn't know?

301 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:03:11pm

re: #295 Mr Pancakes

if you haven't seen the movie, sorry for the spoiler.

fuck

302 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:03:31pm

re: #301 Slumbering Behemoth

fuck

yea riiiight

303 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:04:32pm

re: #292 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Whenever a thread calls out for a dick joke, I'll be there.

Whenever a guy says something awkward, I'll chime in with a "That's what she said."

Whenever someone asks what I'm doing later, I'll say "Your mom."

This, I do solemnly swear.

A police officer I know reports that status conscious college and high school students still sometimes demand to know if he knows who their daddy is.

When they do, he takes out his cell phone and says, "Let me call your mom and see if she remembers."

304 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:05:14pm

Hm.

Rick Perry Responds To Duane Buck Supreme Court Decision, Defends Texas Justice System

“I won’t venture a guess what the Supreme Court will decide on this one, but it will go forward and justice will be served,” Perry said. "They are taking the appropriate path in my opinion and justice will be served at some point in the future.”

He also defended Texas' appeals process, saying "we have a process of justice in the state of Texas that I have full confidence in."

Not for nothing, but this could very well prove that your appeals process don't work so well. Just a stray thought, Rick.

305 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:09:42pm

re: #302 Mr Pancakes

yea riiight

Can you dig it?

306 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:10:35pm

I just got back from a very fun time at the state fair with Alpha Phi Omega.

Talk about a downer. The only good thing is that the number of deaths is MUCH lower than I thought it would be when I saw the story.

Looking at video, and knowing the guy was very experienced, something went horrifically wrong with that P-51.

307 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:13:57pm

To further illustrate the difference between driving and flying: If you see another car one second before an imminent collision, you just might be able to swerve and avoid it. If you see another plane one second before an imminent collision, you are dead meat.

308 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:14:16pm

re: #305 Slumbering Behemoth

Can you dig it?

Right on SB I can dig it.

Can you dig it
Whooo-oooh, yeah
I can dig it, he can dig it
She can dig it, we can dig it
They can dig it, you can dig it
Oh, let's dig it
Can you dig it, baby
I can dig it, he can dig it
She can dig it, we can dig it
They can dig it, you can dig it
Oh, let's dig it
Can you dig it, baby

I can dig it, he can dig it
She can dig it, we can dig it
They can dig it, you can dig it
Oh, let's dig it
Can you dig it, baby

I can dig it, he can dig it
(Grazin' in the grass is a gas, baby, can you dig it)
She can dig it, we can dig it
They can dig it, you can dig it
(Grazin' in the grass is a gas, baby, can you dig it)
Oh, let's dig it...

309 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:15:30pm

re: #303 Shiplord Kirel

A police officer I know reports that status conscious college and high school students still sometimes demand to know if he knows who their daddy is.

When they do, he takes out his cell phone and says, "Let me call your mom and see if she remembers."

BURN!

310 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:20:28pm

Killers - Read My Mind

311 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:20:50pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

Dark...... your Bears kicked ass...... I might have to rethink my Jay Cutler stance. It might be a few weeks before I elevate him from bum status though.

And what's up with the negativity for my Chargers........ your assessment is totally wrong.

312 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:24:09pm

re: #310 JasonA

Iron Maiden - Killers

Laters all.

313 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:26:18pm
314 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:26:51pm

re: #312 Slumbering Behemoth

Iron Maiden - Killers

[Video]Laters all.

Now there's a song I've heard a billion times. One more won't hurt.

315 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:28:20pm

FYI my precog abilities have been proven more correct than I could have thought. A certain sometime is enjoying a time-out. A permanent one, mind you...

316 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:30:20pm

re: #306 ProLifeLiberal

This has got to be the biggest case of Mood Whiplash I have ever had.

317 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:32:53pm

re: #311 Mr Pancakes

Dark... your Bears kicked ass... I might have to rethink my Jay Cutler stance. It might be a few weeks before I elevate him from bum status though.

And what's up with the negativity for my Chargers... your assessment is totally wrong.

When did I run down the Chargers?

318 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:34:55pm

re: #316 ProLifeLiberal

This has got to be the biggest case of Mood Whiplash I have ever had.

Mood Whiplash.......was that Snidley's brother?

319 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:34:59pm

re: #311 Mr Pancakes

Dark... your Bears kicked ass... I might have to rethink my Jay Cutler stance. It might be a few weeks before I elevate him from bum status though.

And what's up with the negativity for my Chargers... your assessment is totally wrong.

But the Bears did indeed do well. But now they need to beat either New Orleans and/or Green Bay (I don't think they win both games. though it would be sweet). Green Bay is by far the more important win, since they are the team the Bears need to beat to win the division.

320 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:37:11pm

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

But the Bears did indeed do well. But now they need to beat either New Orleans and/or Green Bay (I don't think they win both games. though it would be sweet). Green Bay is by far the more important win, since they are the team the Bears need to beat to win the division.

Green Bay is so good (and I'm tired of hearing too my brother) that you'll have to make it with a wildcard bid. Watch out for the Lions.

321 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:38:40pm

re: #318 Mr Pancakes

Mood Whiplash...was that Snidley's brother?

No, its a punk rock band that covers Moody Blues songs

322 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:38:43pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

When did I run down the Chargers?

You said they had to play the Packers and Patriots among others which would spell their doom..... it was a couple of weeks ago.

323 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:40:28pm

re: #321 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, its a punk rock band that covers Moody Blues songs

Oh.... the sacrilege. I'm putting ashes on my forehead as I type.

324 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:40:40pm

re: #321 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mood Whiplash

325 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:42:41pm

re: #324 ProLifeLiberal

Mood Whiplash

326 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:44:29pm

re: #323 Mr Pancakes

Oh... the sacrilege. I'm putting ashes on my forehead as I type.

327 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:50:18pm

re: #322 Mr Pancakes

You said they had to play the Packers and Patriots among others which would spell their doom... it was a couple of weeks ago.

I wasn't trying to hate on them, I just didn't think they could do well with the level of opposition they face. If they beat Green Bay or New England I'll be delighted, especially if its Green Bay.

And I do think the bears can beat Green Bay. The Bears are better than they've been given credit for. I think part of the issue with Cutler is that he's not what Chicago is used to in a QB. He's a much stronger passing than any other Bears quarterback in my lifetime. That sort of QB requires a different sort of offense, and it took Mike Martz some time to get that set up. But Martz is doing that, and it is working well.

328 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:51:16pm

re: #326 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

[Video]

Good God I love the Dickies...... my daughter loves the Dickies (Killer Klowns from Outer Space).... saw them live in the day. "I'm Stuck in a Pagoda with Tricia Toyota"..... "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath......

Just watched a movie yesterday called "Kick Ass"...... so cool. The soundtrack included the Dickies "Banana Split theme song" and Sparks' "This Town Ain't Big Enough For The Both Of Us."

Highly recommended.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:52:02pm

For all of you who are still conscious: the gift of Chuck Testa.

Technically safe for work, but may cause you to laugh so hard you wet yourself.

330 Kragar  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:54:18pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

Also technically safe for work,

331 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 10:55:21pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

I wasn't trying to hate on them, I just didn't think they could do well with the level of opposition they face. If they beat Green Bay or New England I'll be delighted, especially if its Green Bay.

My response to that would have been...... all the lesser teams in the AFC west (Denver, Oakland, KC) face those very same teams. So it really boils down to inter-conference match-ups and I think the Chargers win that one.

332 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:02:11pm

re: #331 Mr Pancakes

My response to that would have been... all the lesser teams in the AFC west (Denver, Oakland, KC) face those very same teams. So it really boils down to inter-conference match-ups and I think the Chargers win that one.

That I agree with. The real surprise for the AFC West in week 1 was the way Buffalo thrashed the Chief. Roy Fitzpatrick owned the air with 4 TD passes and the Chiefs' offense went nowhere. If they don't step up their game, the Chiefs will be a joke this season.

333 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:07:17pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

That I agree with. The real surprise for the AFC West in week 1 was the way Buffalo thrashed the Chief. Roy Fitzpatrick owned the air with 4 TD passes and the Chiefs' offense went nowhere. If they don't step up their game, the Chiefs will be a joke this season.

Wasn't that cool?...... it was a shellacking. The Raiders pull into Buffalo this Sunday........ I will relish the Bills kicking their gangsta ass. Please universe overlord of all that is good vs all that is evil..... make it happen.

334 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:07:42pm

Night all!

Have a great morning!

335 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:09:21pm

re: #334 ggt

Night all!

Have a great morning!

Goodnight random 3 letters........ it's not morning till Mickey tells me it is.

336 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:11:54pm

re: #333 Mr Pancakes

Wasn't that cool?... it was a shellacking. The Raiders pull into Buffalo this Sunday... I will relish the Bills kicking their gangsta ass. Please universe overlord of all that is good vs all that is evil... make it happen.

I'd like to see Fitz get his team to the playoffs, if not this year then next year. He's got a decent career a ahead of him, I think. He's not a superstar, but he's smart, dedicated, and well trained.

337 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:17:40pm

Good night, all.

338 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:18:53pm

re: #336 Dark_Falcon

I'd like to see Fitz get his team to the playoffs, if not this year then next year. He's got a decent career a ahead of him, I think. He's not a superstar, but he's smart, dedicated, and well trained.

Yea, I think Buffalo's stock is rising and Fitzpatrick will be a star in time....... but fuck man..... they have to get past the Jets and Patriots. They will battle for the bottom with the Fins for a few years to come I'm afraid.

339 Mr Pancakes  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:22:18pm

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

Good night, all.

Dark went to bed...... I guess it's "Double Rainbow" time.

340 freetoken  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 2:22:13am
341 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 2:28:37am

I'm crying because I'm laughing so hard.

Asshole Assange is auctioning stuff off.

342 researchok  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 2:46:16am

Morning, all

343 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 2:56:56am

Morning Honcos.

344 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:01:25am

I know this thread started about the crash in Reno. People brought up the dude's age. I'm not going through 340 post, so if this has been posted, sorry.
[Link: www.ocala.com...]

345 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:09:14am

Going to try sleeping again.

Have a great one all!

346 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:48:28am

No words are needed, but someone might need a hand...
[Link: superbooyah.com...]
NSFW, kinda.

347 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:17:09am

Dude explaining car crash needs to step away from the coffee. (or coke, meth, whatever)

348 The Left  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:20:20am

Two Women Brawl WIth Sponge Bob

349 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:23:36am

re: #348 iceweasel

Two Women Brawl WIth Sponge Bob

[Link: youtu.be...]

I saw that. Sponge Bob shoulda beat them ho's down!
/

350 The Left  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:29:25am

re: #349 Cannadian Club Akbar

I saw that. Sponge Bob shoulda beat them ho's down!
/

Jimmah and I were just watching it and laughing. We were rooting for SpongeBob too!

351 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:37:31am

Morning Cupcakes! Sitting here in the dark waiting for them to get the power turned back on. The whole block is out

352 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:38:15am

re: #351 RogueOne

Morning Cupcakes! Sitting here in the dark waiting for them to get the power turned back on. The whole block is out

Then how the fuck are you on the intertubes???
/

353 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:38:41am

re: #352 Cannadian Club Akbar

Then how the fuck are you on the intertubes???
/

Magnets!
//

354 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:38:50am

re: #347 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude explaining car crash needs to step away from the coffee. (or coke, meth, whatever)

[Video]

I saw that yesterday. I'd like to go drinking with that guy!

355 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:40:39am

re: #352 Cannadian Club Akbar

Then how the fuck are you on the intertubes???
/

Modern technology ba-by! Laptop and wireless tether from my phone. Free tether if it's rooted, which it is.

356 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:43:16am

The old guy did have his left turn signal on the whole way down. Guess no one was paying attention.

357 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:46:07am

re: #356 RogueOne

The old guy did have his left turn signal on the whole way down. Guess no one was paying attention.

I wouldn't go to this type of airshow. Now, the one at MacDill AFB in Tampa, that rocks.

358 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:49:58am

I go to the airshow here but they don't race. I'm not much of a fan of planes but I have a friend who lives 1/4 mile from the airport where they do the show. We've been holding parties that weekend ever since we were in High School. Once his parents moved, about 10 years ago, another friend bought the place and the tradition continues.

359 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:51:12am

re: #358 RogueOne

I go to the airshow here but they don't race. I'm not much of a fan of planes but I have a friend who lives 1/4 mile from the airport where they do the show. We've been holding parties that weekend ever since we were in High School. Once his parents moved, about 10 years ago, another friend bought the place and the tradition continues.

Me either, they can't hover.

360 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:51:57am

re: #359 rwdflynavy

Me either, they can't hover.

Really? Ever heard of Area 51?
///

361 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:52:02am

Gotta bolt, I'm going riding with some other "kids" from my school. Later lizards!

362 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:54:26am

Tada! Power is on! Navy must have had me jinxed somehow. As soon as he left it came on.... I don't believe in coincidences

363 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:01:52am

So my friend want me to move to Maryland (has for a while) If I go I already have a place to stay and a job. I just gotta get there.

364 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:05:40am

re: #363 Cannadian Club Akbar

So my friend want me to move to Maryland (has for a while) If I go I already have a place to stay and a job. I just gotta get there.

Move to Md right before winter? That going to be a big shock for a florida boy?

365 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:08:59am

re: #364 RogueOne

Move to Md right before winter? That going to be a big shock for a florida boy?

My thoughts exactly. I have zero winter gear, but the job situation here sucks. I do have an interview Tuesday with a large corporation and a couple resumes out to one large restaurant chain and a small independent restaurant. And I've contacted SCORE about something totally different.

366 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:10:20am

re: #365 Cannadian Club Akbar

My thoughts exactly. I have zero winter gear, but the job situation here sucks. I do have an interview Tuesday with a large corporation and a couple resumes out to one large restaurant chain and a small independent restaurant. And I've contacted SCORE about something totally different.

Gotta do what you gotta do. Better to be cold and full than warm and hungry.

367 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:12:50am

re: #366 RogueOne

Gotta do what you gotta do. Better to be cold and full than warm and hungry.

Two years ago when my friend moved there was when DC/Maryland/the NE got hammered by snow. I think he was there about two weeks before snowmageddon hit. Snow is so fucking overrated.

368 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:14:56am

Morning folks. Was watching other videos and stills of the incident this morning. Looks like the P-51 rolled on it's back and then looped to near 90 degrees and literally nosedived onto the tarmac. While looking at a still image from Daylife I noticed a broken or missing trim tab on the left horizontal stabilizer. See here:

Image: Galloping-Ghost-Broken-Trim.jpg

This is an image right before the crash. Notice that if that trim tab is in the down position it would force the aircraft to roll to the right. At the same time I notice the ailerons are set to roll to the left which would indicate an attempt to counteract the right roll.

369 Shropshire_Slasher  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:16:19am

re: #363 Cannadian Club Akbar
GO!

370 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:18:18am

re: #367 Cannadian Club Akbar

Two years ago when my friend moved there was when DC/Maryland/the NE got hammered by snow. I think he was there about two weeks before snowmageddon hit. Snow is so fucking overrated.

I hate the cold and I'm dreading winter coming. That's part of the reason I hate fall, it's a sign that life is about to suck for months. It could be worse, I could live near my in-laws in the Dakotas, or worse, canada.

371 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:20:11am

re: #368 Gus 802

I saw you made it back to Denver. Congrats.

372 Shropshire_Slasher  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:20:44am

re: #368 Gus 802

The trim tab might be fully engaged as shown to counteract the massive torque of the motor. If you could find out which direction the motor rotates, you could figure out if trim tab is set correctly.
His motor probably quit/seized and he spun it in.

373 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:22:24am

70 year old plane, 80 year old pilot...what could go wrong?

374 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:22:52am

re: #370 RogueOne

The booze/beer/cigarette prices in Canada suck. Bad.

375 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:23:00am

re: #372 Shropshire_Slasher

The trim tab might be fully engaged as shown to counteract the massive torque of the motor. If you could find out which direction the motor rotates, you could figure out if trim tab is set correctly.
His motor probably quit/seized and he spun it in.

That's my observation. Didn't really post it to debate my observation. Trim tabs aren't typically adjustable on each side and adjust on both sides of the horizontal stabilizer. That is, there's only one dial for adjusting your elevator trim.

376 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:24:08am

re: #374 Cannadian Club Akbar

The booze/beer/cigarette prices in Canada suck. Bad.

and it's full of Canadians....NTTAWWT

377 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:25:50am

Then notice here that the pilot seems to be out of view in the cockpit:

Image: x800.jpg

Compared to:

Image: 5218812876_8a5fc80f74_z.jpg

378 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:26:26am

re: #376 RogueOne

and it's full of Canadians...NTTAWWT

And they don't have "soda" there, they have "pop". WTF is that?
/

379 Shropshire_Slasher  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:26:55am

How come the cats come running when I open a can of Spam? I don't share.

380 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:29:15am

re: #378 Cannadian Club Akbar

And they don't have "soda" there, they have "pop". WTF is that?
/

And they don't use pounds as a weight measure, although nothing like going to the deli and ordering a Key of turkey.
*snort*

381 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:29:41am

re: #373 RogueOne

70 year old plane, 80 year old pilot...what could go wrong?

A broken trim tab? You know it's kind of "lucky" that he nosedived onto the tarmac. Had he scraped in on its belly it would have caused more casualties.

382 Shropshire_Slasher  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:30:46am

re: #375 Gus 802

Actually I'm wrong, that trim tab is for elevation. I haven't flown since I was sixteen, been a while.

383 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:31:39am

re: #382 Shropshire_Slasher

Actually I'm wrong, that trim tab is for elevation. I haven't flown since I was sixteen, been a while.

So, you haven't flown since Spam was popular?
/

384 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:31:55am

re: #382 Shropshire_Slasher

Actually I'm wrong, that trim tab is for elevation. I haven't flown since I was sixteen, been a while.

Yeah. You were probably thinking aileron trim. That's what you would adjust for bank.

385 Shropshire_Slasher  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:33:39am

re: #383 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yeah, back when Spam was known for Spam.

386 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:36:13am

I spent the night in Reno last weekend. Was thinking about the air races and thought it would be nice to hang out but I didn't have the funding. BRB... smoke... which is more dangerous.

387 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:36:30am

re: #385 Shropshire_Slasher

Yeah, back when Spam was known for Spam.

and adjusting trim was a whole different thing...

388 Shropshire_Slasher  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:37:58am

Now I'm making my son scrambled eggs and singing "SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM"

389 BeenHereAwhile  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:38:15am

re: #260 Shiplord Kirel

[...]Having said all that, I am ambivalent about flying these old birds and especially about pylon racing and the highly modified aircraft used in these events. By modern standards, these planes were not really safe when they were new. There was a world war on, and the technology was being stretched to its absolute limits. Air power and air superiority were so important that risks had to be taken.
In restored "warbirds," the old aircraft's condition might as well be brand new and is not a factor if maintenance has been kept up. Some improvements in safety come from the mandatory use of modern equipment. Modern techniques of restoration can improve the reliability of certain components. Engine crankshafts don't break nearly as often as they did in the 40s, for example, even in 70 year old engines. This is simply because the manufacturing and inspection techniques have improved so much. The underlying technology is still ancient however and this fact must be treated with the greatest respect.[...]

Had a client some years ago who raced pylon raced a P-51, although he was better known for international racing GT sports cars.
He said that the most important thing about air racing was to know what your fellow competitors would do when something happened to you or them during a race, and hopefully everyone would act accordingly.
He explained that the aircraft was being flown at speeds at which it was not designed for. The 60 year old engine is racing at *several* times what was considered "emergency wartime boost" in the 1940s. And "emergency wartime boost" was only to be used for maybe 60 seconds to save the wartime fighter pilot.
He said the hardest thing about air racing was no power boost on the controls so when you were racing around the pylons, the control stick felt like it was "embedded in concrete."

390 AK-47%  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:58:46am

re: #374 Cannadian Club Akbar

The booze/beer/cigarette prices in Canada suck. Bad.

booze and cigs: expensive
health care and meds: affordable

these people have no sense of priorities!!!

391 AK-47%  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:59:24am

re: #379 Shropshire_Slasher

How come the cats come running when I open a can of Spam? I don't share.

they can smell those nitrates from half a mile away

392 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:05:23am

re: #390 ralphieboy

booze and cigs: expensive
health care and meds: affordable

these people have no sense of priorities!!!

What's the point of cheap healthcare if you can't afford booze and cigs?

393 lawhawk  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:07:01am

Does anyone know if the NTSB/FAA require these planes to carry black boxes to determine the airplane state if one should crash? I would think that such a move would help investigators determine what happened, and if the trim tab fell off or somehow malfunctioned, or whether the pilot fought to keep the plane from barreling into the crowded stands killing far more people than the already too high casualties being reported.

394 AK-47%  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:11:07am

re: #392 RogueOne

What's the point of cheap healthcare if you can't afford booze and cigs?

Pharmaceutical and health care lobby wants to keep prices high, booze and cigarette lobby wants to keep prices low. That's synergy in action.

395 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:11:09am

re: #392 RogueOne

What's the point of cheap healthcare if you can't afford booze and cigs?

They should outlaw snow blowers. That will help people stay in shape!
/

396 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:12:35am

re: #391 ralphieboy

they can smell those nitrates from half a mile away

Yeah. What's a little bit of botulism here and there.

397 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:13:35am

re: #395 Cannadian Club Akbar

They should outlaw snow blowers. That will help people stay in shape!
/

And it would help cut down on hearing loss.

//

398 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:14:09am

re: #393 lawhawk

Does anyone know if the NTSB/FAA require these planes to carry black boxes to determine the airplane state if one should crash? I would think that such a move would help investigators determine what happened, and if the trim tab fell off or somehow malfunctioned, or whether the pilot fought to keep the plane from barreling into the crowded stands killing far more people than the already too high casualties being reported.

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure these antiques are all manual controls with old school analogue dials and stuff. There might be some modern radios, gps and safety stuff but I think a black box is unlikely.

399 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:14:41am

re: #393 lawhawk

These planes are not electronically controlled like airliners. They have cables, hydraulics and analog instruments if original. It would be a major instrumentation refit to have a true black box. On the other hand a camera on the instrument panel and one on the pilot would probably tell a lot.

400 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:15:24am

re: #395 Cannadian Club Akbar

They should outlaw snow blowers. That will help people stay in shape!
/

I would think that if you had to stay indoors for long periods of time they would want to keep booze cheap. Cheap entertainment.

401 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:18:13am

re: #400 RogueOne

I would think that if you had to stay indoors for long periods of time they would want to keep booze cheap. Cheap entertainment.

Did you know a carton of smoke there only have 8 packs per carton? Unlike here where we have 10? (8 packs@25 per pack vs. 10 packs@20 per pack):)

402 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:19:50am

Funny you know. People keep referring to this Mustang as an antique but it's rather clear from the videos that it didn't suffer any catastrophic airframe damage. Thus far it looks like things are pointing to the damaged or missing trim tab which could have been caused by a number of factors. The Mustang here isn't some off the shelf airplane from the 1940s and it was rebuilt and modified to attain race performance standards.

403 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:25:00am

re: #402 Gus 802

I for one am happy to acknowledge that I have no clue about flying or aeronautics and my opinions on the subject are totally uninformed and simply visceral. Accidents happen. Sometimes they happen spectacularly.

In other news, Makeitstop and his band rocked last night, and there were some very decent singers that got up to pound away at some sounds including one tiny girl who sang the living fuck out of a Zepp song. She really rocked the place. It's always so neat when a tiny person opens their mouth and this big big sound comes out.

404 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:25:10am

re: #401 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did you know a carton of smoke there only have 8 packs per carton? Unlike here where we have 10? (8 packs@25 per pack vs. 10 packs@20 per pack):)

Well that settles it. The Canadians are being horribly repressed, we should start the bombing immediately. Operation "Lucky Strikes" to free canada.

405 William of Orange  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:31:54am

As I type this there actually is an air show going one above my head.

[Link: www.defensie.nl...]

Leeuwarden Airbase in the Netherlands is having an open day today.

Nothing serious is going to happen here, although the Red Arrows had to cancel their yesterday's performance due to mechanical problems of one of their nine planes. Could be a bird strike. Last month one of their aircraft went down, the pilot being killed.

About this accident. Initial reports said that a technical failure could be the blame of this horrible event, but look at this photo. I think a medical problem could also be the cause. The pilot is not visible. Could he have had a stroke and be unconscious?

406 AK-47%  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:33:16am

re: #405 William of Orange


hunched over rolling a doobie?

407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:33:53am

re: #391 ralphieboy

they can smell those nitrates from half a mile away

My little brother's friend growing up's mom fed her deviled ham. Remember that? The can wrapped in paper? She'd offer him a sandwich and he always refused. He thought it was cat food.

It kind of was, wasn't it?

408 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:35:06am

re: #406 ralphieboy

hunched over rolling a doobie?

or he assumed the position:
Image: safety_brace_position_2.jpg

409 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:35:22am

re: #407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My little brother's friend growing up's mom fed her deviled ham. Remember that? The can wrapped in paper? She'd offer him a sandwich and he always refused. He thought it was cat food.

It kind of was, wasn't it?

I have tasted salt licks that tasted less salty then that crap.

410 AK-47%  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:35:36am

re: #407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My little brother's friend growing up's mom fed her deviled ham. Remember that? The can wrapped in paper? She'd offer him a sandwich and he always refused. He thought it was cat food.

It kind of was, wasn't it?

Secular Humanists have given us deviled ham!!!

411 William of Orange  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:35:53am

Livestream

Difficult to see since the camera was zoomed in maximal. The crash occurred after 39 minutes.

Be advised! Gruesome images! Not suitable for kids!

412 lawhawk  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:36:01am

re: #405 William of Orange

A medical condition could definitely be something the investigators will look at; but it could have also been high Gs pushing him forward or back out of the canopy range?

It's still early to determine what happened to cause the accident.

413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:36:20am

re: #411 William of Orange

Death porn.

414 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:37:38am

re: #411 William of Orange

Holy Crap!!

415 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:38:00am

And apparently we have new musical genre, ganstergrass-- a mix of bluegrass and rap.

[Link: soundcloud.com...]

416 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:38:10am

re: #405 William of Orange

As I type this there actually is an air show going one above my head.

[Link: www.defensie.nl...]

Leeuwarden Airbase in the Netherlands is having an open day today.

Nothing serious is going to happen here, although the Red Arrows had to cancel their yesterday's performance due to mechanical problems of one of their nine planes. Could be a bird strike. Last month one of their aircraft went down, the pilot being killed.

About this accident. Initial reports said that a technical failure could be the blame of this horrible event, but look at this photo. I think a medical problem could also be the cause. The pilot is not visible. Could he have had a stroke and be unconscious?

The tail gear is down. Is that normal?

417 lawhawk  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:40:07am

BTW, Jay Leno had Bachmann on his show, and he got to grilling her about everything from the pray away the gay to the HPV vaccine opposition, and she's changed her tune on the HPV vaccine to claim that it would give women a false sense of security that it would prevent STDs.

Umm, does tetanus vaccines give a false sense of security that stepping on nails wont cause serious injury? Tetanus vaccines prevent tetanus, not the other potential injuries that may come from engaging in conduct that might expose oneself to tetanus. Same deal with the HPV vaccines. It prevents HPV, which is a cause of cervical cancer and isn't a substitute for other contraception and protection.

418 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:41:42am

The air show pilot is now being reported as 74 years old. Perhaps it's time to dust off the 24 Hour Rule for confused situations. (This statement becomes operative in 23 hrs, 56 min.)

419 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:43:49am

re: #418 Decatur Deb

The air show pilot is now being reported as 74 years old. Perhaps it's time to dust off the 24 Hour Rule for confused situations. (This statement becomes operative in 23 hrs, 56 min.)

re: #344 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know this thread started about the crash in Reno. People brought up the dude's age. I'm not going through 340 post, so if this has been posted, sorry.
[Link: www.ocala.com...]

420 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:46:33am

re: #409 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have tasted salt licks that tasted less salty then that crap.

Why have you tasted salt licks?

And Good Morning!

421 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:47:39am

re: #420 ggt

I have tasted a salt lick because:

I was eight years old and it was there.

Result: Salty.

But not as salty as rock salt, which I also tasted.

422 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:48:39am

re: #421 Obdicut

I have tasted a salt lick because:

I was eight years old and it was there.

Result: Salty.

But not as salty as rock salt, which I also tasted.

Good thing it wasn't "A Christmas Story" moment!

423 AK-47%  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:49:39am

re: #417 lawhawk

Sluts deserve whatever they get. It is against God's will to reduce the risk for them.

/

424 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:50:13am

re: #421 Obdicut

I have tasted a salt lick because:

I was eight years old and it was there.

Result: Salty.

But not as salty as rock salt, which I also tasted.

Boys who lick salt blocks are statistically more likely to piss on electric fences.

425 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:51:12am

aw, I gotta go for a while.

bblater.

426 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:51:50am

re: #424 Decatur Deb

The mythbusters proved that pissing on an electric fence is, in and of itself, not dangerous.

However, grabbing it for balance while you do so most definitely is.

427 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:52:36am

re: #424 Decatur Deb

Boys who lick salt blocks are statistically more likely to piss on electric fences.

Mark Grace, former first baseman for the Cubs, said during an interview that he would put salt lick in front of his hotel room during Spring Training to get that fat girls there. Not nice, but funny.

428 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:54:27am

re: #426 Obdicut

The mythbusters proved that pissing on an electric fence is, in and of itself, not dangerous.

However, grabbing it for balance while you do so most definitely is.

My older sister and I (ages 5 and 3) told our younger sister (1) to grab the electric fence. Dad wasn't happy.

429 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:55:32am

re: #427 Cannadian Club Akbar

Mark Grace, former first baseman for the Cubs, said during an interview that he would put salt lick in front of his hotel room during Spring Training to get that fat girls there. Not nice, but funny.

We used to joke that our Field Operating Agency should install a Prozac salt lick in the lobby, but that is a meme that was probably already on the early webs--there's a novel.

430 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:56:45am

re: #428 Cannadian Club Akbar

My older sister and I (ages 5 and 3) told our younger sister (1) to grab the electric fence. Dad wasn't happy.

No. 2 Son, at 5yrs, was specifically told not to grab one, 5 seconds before he did.

431 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:56:58am

re: #426 Obdicut

The mythbusters proved that pissing on an electric fence is, in and of itself, not dangerous.

However, grabbing it for balance while you do so most definitely is.

How did they do the experiment? This experiment says the charge could be 400v and "hurt like hell"

432 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:59:21am

re: #430 Decatur Deb

No. 2 Son, at 5yrs, was specifically told not to grab one, 5 seconds before he did.

My dad had a '68 Diesel Mercedes. I looked at the glow plug. Thought about touching it. Then I did. I was 11ish.

433 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:59:39am

re: #431 RogueOne

They made a pissing robot and measured the charge recieved. The thing is that the urine stream breaks up immediately, and electricity doesn't cross gaps well, so unless you're Mr. Hosepipe Bigpisser, you're not going to have the volume to create a coherent stream and get the jolt.

However, if you're a drunk idiot who's stupid enough to be pissing near an electric fence, the chance of you tripping or swaying and touching it are large.

434 BongCrodny  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:00:06am

re: #405 William of Orange

As I type this there actually is an air show going one above my head.

Me, too.

Hey, just because no one else can see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

435 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:02:03am

re: #434 BongCrodny


Is it a Black Helicopter airshow?
/

436 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:02:22am

re: #433 Obdicut

They made a pissing robot and measured the charge recieved. The thing is that the urine stream breaks up immediately, and electricity doesn't cross gaps well, so unless you're Mr. Hosepipe Bigpisser, you're not going to have the volume to create a coherent stream and get the jolt.

However, if you're a drunk idiot who's stupid enough to be pissing near an electric fence, the chance of you tripping or swaying and touching it are large.

Once they did that test, they should have assigned the geek intern to try it live, to validate the model.

437 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:05:07am

re: #436 Decatur Deb

Ooop, I'm misremembering. If the person stood really really close to the fence, it's possible they could get zapped.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

It was the third rail that they confirmed couldn't possibly happen, as the stream isn't going to remain coherent all the way down.

But if you're like six inches from the fence, you may get zapped.

I hope nobody injured themselves before I made this correction.

438 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:06:17am

re: #437 Obdicut

Ooop, I'm misremembering. If the person stood really really close to the fence, it's possible they could get zapped.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

It was the third rail that they confirmed couldn't possibly happen, as the stream isn't going to remain coherent all the way down.

But if you're like six inches from the fence, you may get zapped.

I hope nobody injured themselves before I made this correction.

Dewy, Cheatem, and Howe, Esqs, will be in touch.

439 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:07:36am

re: #436 Decatur Deb

Once they did that test, they should have assigned the geek intern to try it live, to validate the model.

440 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:08:29am

re: #438 Decatur Deb

Ah, that's fine. Tell them to get into contact with my law firm, Payne and Fears.

441 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:09:26am

re: #439 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Video]

Beautiful. Will it boil your beer if you don't hand it to a buddy?

442 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:09:58am

I was sitting on some beams welding after a snow not realizing my butt was getting wet until I shocked my ass.

443 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:14:15am

Alrighty. Gonna go eat some pizza, then mow. bbiab.

444 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:18:09am

Semi-related local story:

Face transplant recipient may be headed for last surgery
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

Hunter's operation occurred more than a decade after he lost his face, two fingers and half his left leg to a severe shock from an electrical wire in a car accident in North Carolina. Before his face transplant, he had undergone 47 face graft operations since 2001.

445 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:30:09am

re: #442 RogueOne

I was sitting on some beams welding after a snow not realizing my butt was getting wet until I shocked my ass.

That tells us everything we need to know about you!

446 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:30:16am

One of the fullerton officers involved in the beating death of Kelly Thomas:

California cop placed on leave in wake of third brutality allegation
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Los Angeles (CNN) -- A police officer in Fullerton, California, whom an attorney accuses of brutality in the death of a homeless man this summer and two arrest cases last year, has been placed on paid leave, a police spokesman announced Friday.

Sgt. Andrew Goodrich identified the officer as Kenton Hampton, but he declined to confirm whether Hampton is among six officers involved in the arrest of Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old homeless man who died five days after allegedly being beaten by police this summer. That death is under investigation by the FBI and the Orange County District Attorney.

But Hampton was involved in two incidents last year in which two men are accusing Hampton of brutality and false arrest, Goodrich told CNN.

447 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:31:58am

re: #436 Decatur Deb

Once they did that test, they should have assigned the geek intern to try it live, to validate the model.

They wanted too, but I was busy testing the tongue/ frozen flagpole question!

448 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:33:30am

Work to do. BBL

449 RogueOne  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:38:21am

No hugging at a NASCAR race!:

Man Sues Maricopa County Sheriff's Office
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]

Michael T. Wyman, 50, maintains in his lawsuit that he greeted an old friend with a bear hug near the track's Speed Cantina during a NASCAR race last November when, without warning, a deputy put him in a choke hold. The deputy threw him to the ground, Wyman alleges, and another deputy began shooting Wyman in the leg with a stun gun.

Wyman was charged with resisting arrest, aggravated assault and disorderly conduct for his role in the Nov. 13 incident, but a judge dismissed the charges in March at the request of prosecutors.
....
"My deputies have a tough job," Arpaio said. "At this point, these are just allegations. I will await the true outcome of this lawsuit before I make any judgments."

450 AK-47%  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:42:55am

re: #449 RogueOne

Good call on the part of the deputy. NASCAR men do not hug.

451 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:55:10am

I watched those 'gruesome' videos but there was nothing gruesome about them. Lots of debris, some people laying down, etc. Still graphic, but nothing gory.

452 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:59:10am

re: #450 ralphieboy

Good call on the part of the deputy. NASCAR men do not hug.

Says it was a BEAR hug, so it should have been okay!

453 Sionainn  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:00:16am

re: #446 RogueOne

One of the fullerton officers involved in the beating death of Kelly Thomas:

California cop placed on leave in wake of third brutality allegation
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

I can't believe that it is taking this long to even put these guys on leave, let alone not yet being charged yet.

454 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:04:28am

re: #405 William of Orange

Are you sure that is not a photoshop?

455 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:05:11am

re: #341 ggt

I'm crying because I'm laughing so hard.

Asshole Assange is auctioning stuff off.

I"m still LMAO --you should see the picture with the article. Makes you want to just . . .. give the asshole a swirlie.

How is everyone?

456 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:08:31am

re: #455 ggt

I"m still LMAO --you should see the picture with the article. Makes you want to just . . .. give the asshole a swirlie.

How is everyone?

In the whole world?

You'll have to give me time to find out

Should I start alphabetically ,,, or geographically,,,,, AGE, thats it ,, start with the oldest and work my way backwards

Damn ,, and I wanted to rest today!!

457 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:09:43am

re: #456 sattv4u2

In the whole world?

You'll have to give me time to find out

Should I start alphabetically ,,, or geographically,,, AGE, thats it ,, start with the oldest and work my way backwards

Damn ,, and I wanted to rest today!!

Yeah, I know, I usually just limit it to Lizards . .

I'll take a general answer, no need to do an itemized list this time.

458 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:10:40am

re: #446 RogueOne

One of the fullerton officers involved in the beating death of Kelly Thomas:

California cop placed on leave in wake of third brutality allegation
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

That he's still being paid wouldn't bother me if I knew for sure that he was going to spend a long time in jail, starting in the near future. Since I don't, it does.

459 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:10:53am

re: #457 ggt

Yeah, I know, I usually just limit it to Lizards . .

I'll take a general answer, no need to do an itemized list this time.

A general answer to my private well being!?!?

460 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:13:58am

How stupid is STUPID?

The consequences of STUPID never cease to shock me. I don't know why, there is so much of it.

461 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:17:49am

re: #459 sattv4u2

A general answer to my private well being!?!?

You pick this time.

462 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:18:08am

Andrew Breitbart's historical revisionism.....

Andrew Breitbart in Lexington Massachusetts

It really amazed me to see that his thesis was a belief I’ve long-held, namely that the far left decided the best way to divide and bring down the US was by hitting what united us, namely our Judeo-Christian Culture and as he put it “Translated haves and have nots to oppressors and oppressed”.

Of course the church culture had to be the first to go because it is a uniting agent that crosses class and wealth lines so effectively.

Andrew Stressed that he is in fact a secular Jew but he recognized the war on culture for what it is and recognized that as it took decades to reach this point it would take further decades to reverse it.

He mentions Twain, Thoreau,Emerson and Emily Dickinson (All secular humanists) as true American guardians of theocratic Cristian values.
It's also interesting that he blames the wave of Jewish immigration from Nazi Europe for importing communist values to America. He names Theodor W. Adorno, a converted German Jew, as being the main architect of the subversive overthrow of American Christian values.

463 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:20:59am

re: #462 Killgore Trout
Here's the youtube video

464 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:22:33am

re: #458 wrenchwench

That he's still being paid wouldn't bother me if I knew for sure that he was going to spend a long time in jail, starting in the near future. Since I don't, it does.

Heh. I found some video of a person I know from Fullerton commenting on the case. (I knew his late father too). The comment by the person who posted it is good.

Here is Rusty expending three minutes of verbal gas saying absolutely nothing and trying as hard as he can to avoid speaking the truth: that the Fullerton Police deliberately killed a harmless, mentally ill man. Enjoy the end where Mr. Kennedy offers the services of his impotent operation, as if the cops who committed this crime against Kelly Thomas simply needed some sensitivity training courtesy of the Orange County Human Relations Commission.

465 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:22:33am

re: #462 Killgore Trout

Andrew Breitbart's historical revisionism...

Andrew Breitbart in Lexington Massachusetts

=player_embedded

He mentions Twain, Thoreau,Emerson and Emily Dickinson (All secular humanists) as true American guardians of theocratic Cristian values.
It's also interesting that he blames the wave of Jewish immigration from Nazi Europe for importing communist values to America. He names Theodor W. Adorno, a converted German Jew, as being the main architect of the subversive overthrow of American Christian values.

It's always the Jooooooooos.

and it's getting really, really old.

466 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:27:37am

It gets even better.....
Breitbart, Bring it on.AVI

Breitbart dreams of civil war.
"They can only win a rhetorical or propaganda war. We outnumber them and we have the guns." (audience laughs) "I'm not kidding"

467 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:28:07am

I'm trying to get my head around this Solyndra deal. Seems like there's not a lot of there there, but facts seem to be hard to come by amidst the spin.

468 Gus  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:28:10am

Found this example of a previous trim tab loss by Voodoo Chile:

Button describes what happened to his airplane in Saturday's heat race. Apparently, the left elevator trim tab came off the airplane at speed, causing the bird to abruptly pitch up, subjecting driver Hannah to over 10 G's of deceleration forces, and causing him to lose consciousness! When he came to, the raceplane had climbed to over 9,000 feet of altitude. A shaken Hannah regained control and brought Voodoo in for a safe landing. Suspected structural damage kept the sleek raceplane out of Sunday's championship competition.

That's 10gs.

Here's the pilot at the time: Image: hannah1.jpg

And the missing trim tab: Image: voodoo3.jpg

469 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:29:16am

re: #466 Killgore Trout

It gets even better...
Breitbart, Bring it on.AVI

[Video]Breitbart dreams of civil war.
"They can only win a rhetorical or propaganda war. We outnumber them and we have the guns." (audience laughs) "I'm not kidding"

Can someone snag a copy of that youtube video just for safe keeping? I'd page it but I don;t want to draw too much attention to it until we have a backup.

470 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:30:39am

re: #467 BigPapa

I'm trying to get my head around this Solyndra deal. Seems like there's not a lot of there there, but facts seem to be hard to come by amidst the spin.

I can't even pronounce it.

471 Mocking Jay  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:30:59am

re: #466 Killgore Trout

He looks like he just rolled out of bed with a hangover.

472 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:32:36am

re: #462 Killgore Trout

Andrew Breitbart's historical revisionism...

Andrew Breitbart in Lexington Massachusetts

He mentions Twain, Thoreau,Emerson and Emily Dickinson (All secular humanists) as true American guardians of theocratic Cristian values.
It's also interesting that he blames the wave of Jewish immigration from Nazi Europe for importing communist values to America. He names Theodor W. Adorno, a converted German Jew, as being the main architect of the subversive overthrow of American Christian values.

Oooh, the dreaded Frankfurt School!

The monument to Adorno is cool.

Image: 800px-Ffm-adorno-denkmal002.jpg

473 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:32:47am

I'm off again.

Have a great morning all!

474 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:38:07am

re: #466 Killgore Trout

It gets even better...
Breitbart, Bring it on.AVI

[Video]Breitbart dreams of civil war.
"They can only win a rhetorical or propaganda war. We outnumber them and we have the guns." (audience laughs) "I'm not kidding"

The south thought the same kinds of things the last time. This result would be the same.

475 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:38:48am

It's amazing how many airshow crashes occur at the bottom of a loop. This appears to be from under-estimating the minimum altitude required for the full maneuver. That wasn't the case here, but it has been in several high profile crashes. Other common causes are loss of altitude during turns and failure to recover from spins. All of these are perfectly safe maneuvers if performed with enough altitude.
Even the Leeward crash could well have been survivable if the control failure had occurred at, say, ten thousand feet.
The need to stay within view of the crowd, and the consequent low altitudes, appears to be the root cause of the great majority of these accidents.
Spectator fatalities are rare in the US, especially compared to other countries, and don't come anywhere close to the numbers we have seen elsewhere. Airshow fans also claim that American shows are less exciting because of the stringent rules. Go figure.

476 makeitstop  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:46:01am

re: #403 Obdicut

I for one am happy to acknowledge that I have no clue about flying or aeronautics and my opinions on the subject are totally uninformed and simply visceral. Accidents happen. Sometimes they happen spectacularly.

In other news, Makeitstop and his band rocked last night, and there were some very decent singers that got up to pound away at some sounds including one tiny girl who sang the living fuck out of a Zepp song. She really rocked the place. It's always so neat when a tiny person opens their mouth and this big big sound comes out.

So glad you made it out, Obdi! Nice to finally put a face to the (screen) name and actually meet another Lizard IRL.

An aside: Obdi actually joined the band onstage for our finale, and as far as I could tell no babies cried and all the beer glasses were still intact when we were done. :)

Today, I get to do it all over again on Long Island - the party that got cancelled when Irene came to town gets its makeup date today. Gotta wake up...

477 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:46:27am

re: #474 wlewisiii

The south thought the same kinds of things the last time. This result would be the same.

It's just pure fantasy. He thinks the military is going to rise up and attack the unions to protect America or something. I'm sure there are a few (very few) servicemen who might do something like this but that's why the DHS memo was issued about ex-servicemen who might have a few screws loose. They can be potentially very dangerous.

478 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:48:41am

An especially sad question at the press conference, a couple of hours after the crash. A reporter asked if Leeward's body had been recovered from the scene. The spokesman said it had not and that Leeward's wife had been asking the same thing.
The coroner's procedure for this would be to form a line of firemen, medics, and other qualified people, and go over the scene a square inch at a time looking for whatever they can find. I hope they cleared out the ghouls and gawkers before they started on this.

479 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:53:01am

Breitbart further clarifies that he's not talking about elections, he's talking about actual armed conflict with his fellow Americans...
The numbers are in our favor

480 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:54:58am

It appears Breitbart's addiction to his sense of gained power is getting worse. He's now chasing the dragon and looking for the first high again, saying more outlandish things to get more notoriety.

Or he's always been a fascist motherfucker and the mask is coming off.

481 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:57:19am

re: #303 Shiplord Kirel

A police officer I know reports that status conscious college and high school students still sometimes demand to know if he knows who their daddy is.

When they do, he takes out his cell phone and says, "Let me call your mom and see if she remembers."

"Do you know who my father is?"
"No, but good luck in your search."

482 theheat  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:01:32am

re: #479 Killgore Trout

Odd, I remember when somebody once said something to the effect of "clinging to their guns and religion" and he was supposedly a real dick for saying it.

Except it was prophetic.

483 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:02:45am

KT I Recommended your posts to Charles, this is seriously demented stuff. Breitbart is not all there.

484 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:08:19am

WTF?

Michele Bachmann links Rick Perry on HPV vaccine to Solyndra

Michele Bachmann, struggling to regain her footing in the GOP presidential contest, Friday assailed rival Rick Perry, saying he abused his power as governor of Texas and rewarded political donors in a manner similar to President Obama.
------
The Minnesota congresswoman was referring to an executive order signed by Perry requiring that young girls be vaccinated against a sexually transmitted virus that can cause cervical cancer that was made by a company that donated to Perry's campaigns.

She compared it to the federal controversy unfolding around Solyndra, a solar equipment maker that received a $535-million federal loan guarantee and which went bankrupt last month. Republicans have suggested that the guarantee was pushed by the White House to reward a major campaign donor with ties to Solyndra's biggest shareholder, a charge the Obama administration denies.

485 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:11:30am

re: #452 sattv4u2

Says it was a BEAR hug, so it should have been okay!

Image: eChCx.jpg

ಠ_ಠ

486 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:15:22am

Good morning Lizards ... I see that Abu Mazen is blaming President Obama for the PA actions at the UN.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

It really is going to take a miracle for there to be peace in the Mideast ...

487 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:16:12am

re: #480 BigPapa

It appears Breitbart's addiction to his sense of gained power is getting worse. He's now chasing the dragon and looking for the first high again, saying more outlandish things to get more notoriety.

Or he's always been a fascist motherfucker and the mask is coming off.

Was it ever on?

488 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:16:41am

re: #483 BigPapa

KT I Recommended your posts to Charles, this is seriously demented stuff. Breitbart is not all there.

Cool, Charles will know how to save a copy of the videos before drawing attention to them.

489 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:16:51am

re: #484 Shiplord Kirel

WTF?

Michele Bachmann links Rick Perry on HPV vaccine to Solyndra

What's next for Bachmann? Beckian Whiteboard Fu?

490 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:17:59am

re: #469 Killgore Trout

Can someone snag a copy of that youtube video just for safe keeping? I'd page it but I don;t want to draw too much attention to it until we have a backup.

saved, and this one too

491 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:18:49am

re: #490 negativ

saved, and this one too

[Video]

Do you have copies of both videos?

492 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:19:39am

Since I'm bedridden due to a bad back, I fgured Solyndra would be a good exercise.

Any idea how much taxpayer $ is really gone?

493 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:21:24am

re: #491 Killgore Trout

Do you have copies of both videos?

I have exactly what you see on youtube. Not the original *.AVI files, but the mp4s that youtube actually streams.

494 allegro  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:22:17am

Rep. Steve King: Unemployment Benefits Have Created "A Nation Of Slackers"

REP. STEVE KING: United States of America borrows money and hands it to people and tells them, you don't have to work for this. You don't have to produce anything for this. We just want you to spend it. That's your patriotic duty, to take the money that we borrowed from the Chinese, and the debt burden we put on our grandchildren, and put it in people's hands and say it's a patriotic thing, take your food stamps and take your rent subsidy and heat subsidy and your unemployment check, and go engage in commerce, that's patriotic. Um, no? [...]

The former speaker of the House, Speaker Pelosi, has consistently said that unemployment checks are one of those reliable and immediate forms of economy recovery, that you get a lot of bang for your buck when you pay people not to work, and they will go out and spend that money immediately, therefore we should pass out unemployment checks and stimulate the economy. That statement is ridiculous where I come from, Mr. Speaker. To pay people not to work, and somehow in that formula it stimulates the economy. [...]

The 80 million Americans that are of working age but are simply not in the workforce need to be put to work. We can't have a nation of slackers and then have me have to sit in the Judiciary Committee listening to them argue that there's work that Americans won't do, so we have to import people to do the work that Americans won't do, and borrow money to pay the welfare of people that won't work. That is a foolish thing for a nation to do. We've gotta get this country back to work and get those people out of the slacker rolls and onto the employed rolls.

Yeah, all you slackers! With all of those job openings and companies begging for workers how dare you sit around eating pie and complaining!

//

495 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:25:11am

Methinks Zerohedge doesn't "get" the ECB:

[Link: www.zerohedge.com...]

The ECB, despite its name, is not a real central bank: It does not have the power to emit (which is what Zerohedge means when he says "print") euro notes (that power is retained by the national central banks, NCBs).

496 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:27:02am

Unemployment insurance is like a lawyer ... Many are vocally against it until they NEED it ...

497 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:30:11am

re: #493 negativ

I have exactly what you see on youtube. Not the original *.AVI files, but the mp4s that youtube actually streams.

Collect the set!

498 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:34:36am

re: #493 negativ

I have exactly what you see on youtube. Not the original *.AVI files, but the mp4s that youtube actually streams.

Great, thanks.

499 allegro  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:38:55am

Holy moly! There is water falling from the sky and landing on Houston!

500 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:42:03am

Here's the page....
Andrew Breitbart's Civil War Fantasies
Can we get some tweets?
Breitbart will surely respond if he gets agitated enough. It doesn't take much.

501 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:49:57am

re: #500 Killgore Trout

Here's the page...
Andrew Breitbart's Civil War Fantasies
Can we get some tweets?
Breitbart will surely respond if he gets agitated enough. It doesn't take much.

Great page!

502 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:58:33am

re: #501 wlewisiii

Great page!

It's such a cool feature. I love watching the view and tweet counters on a new page to see how it goes over.
Looks like Charles is awake on twitter. No sign of Breitbart yet.

503 lawhawk  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:01:09am

Hal Turner, a NJ hate blogger, was acquitted of charges in CT that he threatened CT judges.

Harold "Hal" Turner, of North Bergen, N.J., was found not guilty of felony inciting injury to people and misdemeanor threatening by a Hartford jury that deliberated less than three hours.

Turner, who will be returned to prison to complete a nearly three-year sentence for threatening judges in Illinois, hugged family members after the verdict was announced.

"I am very pleased," he said, as he was led away by correction officers.

Turner, who represented himself, argued that no one was hurt and there was no evidence that his words led to any violence. He also cited his First Amendment right to free speech.

Turner wrote a blog posting in June 2009 in response to state legislation, withdrawn three months earlier, that would have given lay people of Roman Catholic churches more control over parish finances. Turner, 49, believed the legislation flew in the face of the constitutional doctrine of separation of church and state.

He suggested that Catholics "take up arms and put down this tyranny by force," said government leaders should "obey the Constitution or die" and said he would post officials' home addresses. He also wrote that if authorities tried to stop his cause, "I suspect we have enough bullets to put them down too."

504 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:02:41am

re: #503 lawhawk

Hal Turner, a NJ hate blogger, was acquitted of charges in CT that he threatened CT judges.

Wow, I thought that was settled and done over a year ago.

505 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:07:14am

re: #500 Killgore Trout

Here's the page...
Andrew Breitbart's Civil War Fantasies
Can we get some tweets?
Breitbart will surely respond if he gets agitated enough. It doesn't take much.

Comma after "Boston" missing. "imagine" misses an "s" at the end.

Deserves front page promotion, IMHO.

Not having watched the other videos yet (about jewish immigration et al – that sounds awkwardly like Breivik's "cultural marxism" theories, though).

506 lawhawk  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:07:20am

re: #504 Killgore Trout

Separate case. This was in addition to the case dealing with the threats against Illinois federal court judges (that had several mistrials IIRC).

507 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:07:20am

re: #499 allegro

Holy moly! There is water falling from the sky and landing on Houston!

RUN AWAY !!!!

508 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:08:20am

re: #499 allegro

Holy moly! There is water falling from the sky and landing on Houston!

The chemtrails finally burst!!!

509 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:08:26am

re: #506 lawhawk

Separate case. This was in addition to the case dealing with the threats against Illinois federal court judges (that had several mistrials IIRC).

Ah, ok.

510 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:10:36am

re: #505 000G

Comma after "Boston" missing. "imagine" misses an "s" at the end.

Deserves front page promotion, IMHO.

Not having watched the other videos yet (about jewish immigration et al – that sounds awkwardly like Breivik's "cultural marxism" theories, though).

Thanks, corrected.

511 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:10:45am

White House brewing it's own beer.

Now this is just getting silly. He sips tequila, drinks beer, his wife is hot, and he makes beer?

That's it, I'm voting for him!

512 dragonfire1981  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:12:27am

One of the more common bumper stickers I see down here reads:

I'll keep my religion, my freedom and my guns. You keep the "change!"

513 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:17:29am

Local bumper sticker catching on:

I believe in Mai Tai's, and I vote

514 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:19:32am

re: #512 dragonfire1981

One of the more common bumper stickers I see down here reads:

I'll keep my religion, my freedom and my guns. You keep the "change!"

Sign on a tip jar at a bakery: "Afraid of change? Leave it here."

515 Lidane  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:22:13am

re: #500 Killgore Trout

Here's the page...
Andrew Breitbart's Civil War Fantasies
Can we get some tweets?
Breitbart will surely respond if he gets agitated enough. It doesn't take much.

Done! I just Tweeted it. :D

516 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:22:38am

re: #515 Lidane

Done! I just Tweeted it. :D

Thanks!

517 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:23:35am

re: #512 dragonfire1981

One of the more common bumper stickers I see down here reads:

I'll keep my religion, my freedom and my guns. You keep the "change!"

I keep wanting to have one printed that says:

The 2nd Amendment: Keeping Church and State Separate since 1791.

518 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:27:00am

"Don't Blame Me,,,
,,I Voted For The Old Fart"


(bad re-do of the anti-Nixon one from years ago)

519 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:33:42am

re: #518 sattv4u2

"Don't Blame Me,,,
,,I Voted For The Old Fart"

(bad re-do of the anti-Nixon one from years ago)

I see one a block away from here every day that says, "Don't blame me, I voted for the babe". I consider that a bad redo, too.

520 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:34:21am

re: #499 allegro

Holy moly! There is water falling from the sky and landing on Houston!

You must have angered the Water God.

We seemed to have done it here. My church is sponsoring a preparedness booth at the Farmer's Market and we volunteered my son to help and now he's being rained on.

Rain in Oregon. What a weird situation.

521 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:35:52am

Which reminds me. It's September. Do you know where your emergency supplies are?

522 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:36:48am

re: #521 EmmmieG

Which reminds me. It's September. Do you know where your emergency supplies are?

In 2 months they'll be put away.

523 Dire Straits  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:40:24am

re: #489 BigPapa

What's next for Bachmann? Beckian Whiteboard Fu?

She really needs an intervention.

524 allegro  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:41:45am

re: #520 EmmmieG

You must have angered the Water God.

We seemed to have done it here. My church is sponsoring a preparedness booth at the Farmer's Market and we volunteered my son to help and now he's being rained on.

Rain in Oregon. What a weird situation.

Rain has become such a rarity that I've gotten two calls from friends saying "Whoa! What the hell izzat?!" We're so all giddy about a 5 minute downpour that it's plain pathetic.

525 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:46:16am

For anyone who's interested, I've finished my very long page on how I became a glibertarian as a kid and then learned why it was bupkus.

Growing Up: Leaving behind naive glibertarianism

526 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:46:52am

re: #524 allegro

Rain has become such a rarity that I've gotten two calls from friends saying "Whoa! What the hell izzat?!" We're so all giddy about a 5 minute downpour that it's plain pathetic.

We got rain in Oklahoma on Friday...

527 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:50:57am

re: #525 Obdicut

For anyone who's interested, I've finished my very long page on how I became a glibertarian as a kid and then learned why it was bupkus.

Growing Up: Leaving behind naive glibertarianism

Very well done. I was lucky and ignored Rand and read Twain and Thoreau instead.

528 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:55:19am

re: #527 Killgore Trout

Yeah, the idiocy and waste of it is I had all of that available to me, but instead the Randian part really appealed. I think a lot of it really was the social aspect, the jealousy I felt for the kids who were better-off than I. It's something I see in a lot of young 'libertarians'; they either are constructing the philosophy to defend the right to their privilege, or because they want privilege that they don't have, and want the world re-ordered so that they can get it.

529 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:59:20am

re: #525 Obdicut

For anyone who's interested, I've finished my very long page on how I became a glibertarian as a kid and then learned why it was bupkus.

Growing Up: Leaving behind naive glibertarianism

I was a bit more fortunate and laughed at Rand when I tried to read her dreck at about that age. Of course, I'd already read Adam Smith (who would have shredded her intellectually), Mike Harrington and had started to read Capital by that point.

530 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 11:02:42am

re: #525 Obdicut

For anyone who's interested, I've finished my very long page on how I became a glibertarian as a kid and then learned why it was bupkus.

Growing Up: Leaving behind naive glibertarianism

I might document my change, although it's not as interesting as yours, much more mundane.

531 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 11:05:13am

re: #530 BigPapa

Heh. I don't think mine is that interesting. I say go for it.

532 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 11:14:19am

re: #525 Obdicut

For anyone who's interested, I've finished my very long page on how I became a glibertarian as a kid and then learned why it was bupkus.

Growing Up: Leaving behind naive glibertarianism

Promoted to the front page!

533 allegro  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 11:15:14am

Toxic Sludge Champ Rick Perry

Perry donor Harold Simmons, an 80-year-old billionaire, is a political player. He gave millions of dollars to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in 2004, financing ads that knee-capped Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry.
...

"There has been no secret that Harold Simmons' direct self-interest lies in building, permitting and operating his hazardous waste dump and low-level nuclear waste dump in West Texas," he says. "And the wheels have been greased at every turn."

n 2003, the Texas Legislature took the state-run radioactive waste program and made it a private monopoly for Waste Control Specialists. Simmons later bragged about the lobbying that accomplished that.

Corrupt bastards.

534 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 17, 2011 11:17:23am

re: #531 Obdicut

Heh. I don't think mine is that interesting. I say go for it.

I found it interesting and enjoyed reading it, thinking about my journey.

I didn't accept the entirety of Rand's gospel but one thing that stuck with me was the 'rational self interest' part. My interpretation of that, distilled, is why mothers are told to put the oxygen masks on themselves before their children so they don't pass out before their kids and kill them both.

You take care of yourself, you are empowered to take care of others much better

That may not be truly Randian, but that's a key concept I acquired from what little I read of her.

I did for a time think capitalism was best unfettered but now think it's best fettered. It seems we ended up in the same Big Tent.


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