AZ Sheriff Arpaio Takes Birther Assignment from World Nut Daily

Fail of the month
Wingnuts • Views: 23,220

Adequate words do not exist to describe the magnitude of this idiocy, as Arizona’s Sheriff Joe Arpaio cooperates with the far right’s craziest theocratic media site, World Net Daily, to launch an investigation into … wait for it … President Obama’s birth certificate.

Yes, really.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona has appointed a “cold case posse” to determine whether President Barack Obama was actually born in the United States.

The news was first reported by World Net Daily, an online publication that has doggedly pursued conspiracy theories about the president’s birth.

Sgt. Jesse Spurgin, a spokesman for the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office, confirmed the news to The Daily Caller on Tuesday.

Spurgin explained that the tough-on-crime Arizona sheriff is tasking the posse with examining documents provided to Arpaio by author Jerome Corsi.

Jerome Corsi promotes insane conspiracy theories at Weird Nut Drooly (not just Birtherism, but the full panoply of wingnut delusions), he appears frequently on Alex Jones’s whacked out radio show, and he’s appeared more than once on the white supremacist radio show Political Cesspool.

That’s who’s calling the shots in Arpaio’s “investigation.” Unreal. Can sheriffs be impeached?

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275 comments
1 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:08:18pm

O'rly?

2 iossarian  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:10:52pm

A "posse"?

Is there a guy in it called "Crazy Jed"?

When will the knuckle-draggers' appetite for rootin' tootin' good ol' American old-timey frontier honest gosh common sense be sated?

3 darthstar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:11:25pm

Sheriff Arpaio? Fuck him.

Elizabeth Warren? Fuck yeah!

4 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:12:02pm

re: #3 darthstar

I like that woman. I'm close enough to Mass to probably be able to do her some good in her campaign, too.

5 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:13:45pm

Jurisdiction? Needs of the community? A Jedi cares not of these things...

Wait a sec

6 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:15:15pm
Jerome Corsi promotes insane conspiracy theories at Weird Nut Drooly (not just Birtherism, but the full panoply of wingnut insanity), he appears frequently on Alex Jones’s whacked out radio show, and he’s appeared more than once on the white supremacist radio show Political Cesspool.

Bonus information:
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
[Link: www.salon.com...]

7 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:16:03pm

So whose funds is Joe going to misappropriate for this undertaking?

8 erik_t  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:16:12pm

Doddering old buffoon has always been and will always be an embarrassment to the rational and civic-minded of Maricopa County.

9 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:20:08pm

Obama better hide the dog. Dogs don't seem to fare very well in Sheriff Joe's little adventures.
/

10 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:20:36pm

just a comedic interlude...thanks Joe

11 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:22:40pm

re: #9 makeitstop

Ah, man, that actually bummed me out.

I can't say if I'll be bringing people by the show this Friday, by the way; my mom's going to be in town, but I might head out to see you guys after she goes to bed.

12 Gus  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:22:47pm

Pathetic.

13 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:23:55pm

re: #11 Obdicut

Ah, man, that actually bummed me out.

I can't say if I'll be bringing people by the show this Friday, by the way; my mom's going to be in town, but I might head out to see you guys after she goes to bed.

Not a problem. It'd be great to have you there again, but if life calls, you gotta answer.

14 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:24:11pm

Note that the "investigation" revolves entirely around examining Corsi's "evidence", nothing else.

"Um, we have his birth certificate right here guys..."
"LIES!!!"

15 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:26:40pm

Ah yes, the crack committee of wingnuts, buffoons, and just plain nutters.

Arizona permits a recall election of state and local officials. It's under the state constitution, Art 8, Sec. 1.

Section 1. Every public officer in the state of Arizona, holding an elective office, either by election or appointment, is subject to recall from such office by the qualified electors of the electoral district from which candidates are elected to such office. Such electoral district may include the whole state. Such number of said electors as shall equal twenty-five per centum of the number of votes cast at the last preceding general election for all of the candidates for the office held by such officer, may by petition, which shall be known as a recall petition, demand his recall.

Wasting limited state and local resources on this fools' errand? Seems like it is sufficient grounds.

16 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:26:57pm

i have good reason to susupect that george washington was not born in the united states

WHY IS THE MEDIA IGNORING THIS?!??!?!?11?

17 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:26:59pm

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

18 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:28:40pm
19 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:29:01pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

What. The. Fuck.

20 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:29:47pm

re: #18 MikeySDCA

No.

Yes.

21 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:29:57pm

Nothing like trying to find evidence that doesn't exist. Talk about job security.

How can I get on this posse? I keep making the financial error of taking jobs with goals that can and are achieved in reality, leaving me looking for work afterwards.

22 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:30:00pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

I thought that post was a perfect insight into Perry head...hating Israel had nothing to do with anything

23 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:30:11pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

They're fucking idiots and no.

24 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:30:17pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

I say go for it.

This goes to my comment the other day in which I stated that being a Christian and being a Zionist at the same time is something very different from being a Christian Zionist. The latter just does not mean "being a Christian and being a Zionist", just as Antisemitism does not mean "being against Semites". There's more to the meaning of the term than what is apparent on the face of it.

25 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:30:34pm

A "posse" would most likely be composed of unpaid volunteers rather than professional investigators. At least I hope he is not wasting taxpayer money and actual crime-fighting resources on this idiocy. From Sheriff Joe's deranged POV, this would provide a greater probability that the investigation will return the result Corsi wants.

26 Gus  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:31:18pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

Probably not. Let those losers at Jawa Report simmer in their own ignorance.

27 MicheleR  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:32:14pm

Just going to read on this topic- as I've said, I am not really up on where this issue even came from, just know it refuses to go away, and ask questions if that is ok.

28 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:32:40pm

re: #26 Gus 802

Probably not. Let those losers at Jawa Report simmer in their own ignorance.

agreed...something that stupid hardly deserves the face time

29 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:33:39pm

Someone can say they support a country, but if the reason they do so is because the rebirth of the messiah depends on it existing so it can be destroyed in accordance to prophecy, then there are problems.

30 Olsonist  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:33:42pm

They tried to recall Arpaio in 2007. That failed and he got reelected in 2008 with 55% of the vote. At this point, you have to view Arpaio as an expression of the Phoenicians' values and will.

31 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:33:55pm

Charles, you're an anti-Semite because you correctly point out the problems with Perry's Christian Zionist positions?

Could have fooled me.

Of course, they're wrong about you being an anti-Semite and are still stuck on their own ignorance and willful blindness to the crazy train they've hitched themselves to.

Are they going to be calling me an anti-Semite too? A self hating Jew at that? Or Alouette? Or anyone else who comes here?

So yes, go ahead and respond.

32 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:34:29pm

New page up:

Who does the work in America?

33 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:34:59pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They're fucking idiots and no.

They fear sharia jazz.

34 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:35:25pm

Leaning toward not.

It's interesting that Rick Perry and Christian Zionists in general believe all Jews must convert to Christianity. The second coming of Jesus, in their mythology, depends on the complete destruction of Judaism.

But I'm the antisemite?

35 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:36:42pm

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Note that the "investigation" revolves entirely around examining Corsi's "evidence", nothing else.

"Um, we have his birth certificate right here guys..."
"LIES!!!"

Who's their Layer Analyst?

36 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:37:56pm

re: #35 Decatur Deb

Who's their Layer Analyst?

Stackwell Brickston....he's very good

37 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:38:03pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Someone can say they support a country, but if the reason they do so is because the rebirth of the messiah depends on it existing so it can be destroyed in accordance to prophecy, then there are problems.

Problems, to put it mildly. The type of problems one's psychiatrist wants to "talk about in greater detail. Let's explore that."

38 aagcobb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:38:07pm

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

A "posse" would most likely be composed of unpaid volunteers rather than professional investigators. At least I hope he is not wasting taxpayer money and actual crime-fighting resources on this idiocy. From Sheriff Joe's deranged POV, this would provide a greater probability that the investigation will return the result Corsi wants.

I think I read they are going to conduct the "investigation" with donations from birfoons.

39 Sionainn  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:39:20pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

No.

40 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:39:57pm

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to dinnerjacket saying "I support Israel because it must exist so we can destroy it for the return of the Mahdi"

41 Gus  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:40:18pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Someone can say they support a country, but if the reason they do so is because the rebirth of the messiah depends on it existing so it can be destroyed in accordance to prophecy, then there are problems.

Yeah. Nothing like alleging to love a country and a people only with the hope that it will someday be destroyed and you get a ride on the fast lane to "heaven". Imagine having a friend like that. You're only his friend because someday he might get murdered and when he does you get to go to the promise land and see the return of Jesus. I'm thinking here an alliance or friendship laced with seriously ulterior motives and narcissism.

42 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:40:46pm

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

They're taking up donations (really).
They could raffle off a bunch of Glocks and extended mags (not really?).

43 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:41:31pm

re: #34 Charles

Leaning toward not.

It's interesting that Rick Perry and Christian Zionists in general believe all Jews must convert to Christianity. The second coming of Jesus, in their mythology, depends on the complete destruction of Judaism.

But I'm the antisemite?

Maybe a Page under "wingnuts".

44 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:41:48pm

re: #41 Gus 802

Yeah. Nothing like alleging to love a country and a people only with the hope that it will someday be destroyed and you get a ride on the fast lane to "heaven". Imagine having a friend like that. You're only his friend because someday he might get murdered and when he does you get to go to the promise land and see the return of Jesus. I'm thinking here an alliance or friendship laced with seriously ulterior motives and narcissism.

There is a word for people like that.

Dicks.

45 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:42:23pm

re: #35 Decatur Deb

Who's their Layer Analyst?

I think they got a guy on the Vice Squad for that...

46 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:43:37pm

re: #34 Charles

Leaning toward not.

It's interesting that Rick Perry and Christian Zionists in general believe all Jews must convert to Christianity. The second coming of Jesus, in their mythology, depends on the complete destruction of Judaism.

But I'm the antisemite?

It Hitler was a socialist, you could at least muster the gumption to be an anti-semite.

47 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:43:53pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Maybe a Page under "wingnuts".

that's what they want...make em crawl

48 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:44:45pm

re: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wonder how the wingnuts would react to dinnerjacket saying "I support Israel because it must exist so we can destroy it for the return of the Mahdi"

They'd be outraged, but of course, they've never had a problem being outraged at mirror images of themselves: "We must ban Islam in America so they don't take away our freedom of religion." And so forth.

49 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:45:05pm

re: #17 Charles

does Lucasarts know their IP is being appropriated by enfeebled conservatives to spread hatred and dumb

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:46:03pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Someone can say they support a country, but if the reason they do so is because the rebirth of the messiah depends on it existing so it can be destroyed in accordance to prophecy, then there are problems.

We were discussing this last night: their suport of Israel has nothing to do with respect for Judaism or concern for the well-being of its people. They would like to see the people converted to Christianity, but failing that, would rather see them destroyed.

All in the name of jump-starting Armageddon and pricipitating the Second Coming.

51 thatthatisis  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:47:08pm

re: #17 Charles

"standing over the body of a homeless person" ? OMG, it's hard to stop laughing. No, I vote for not replying. No reason to try to stop comics when they're on a roll.

(BTW, didn't you put in a poll feature? )

52 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:48:59pm

re: #34 Charles

Leaning toward not.

It's interesting that Rick Perry and Christian Zionists in general believe all Jews must convert to Christianity. The second coming of Jesus, in their mythology, depends on the complete destruction of Judaism.

But I'm the antisemite?

Ohh don't worry... if you were to ask actual Jews on the matter... we get it. People who see our death or conversion as part of their mythology are not our friends. Perry and his ilk is terrifying, and as Jews, we are always caught between fools like him on the far right, and fools on the far left, who think we eat Arab babies.

But the best response to Perry et al. is Perfect this!

53 erik_t  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:50:38pm

re: #30 Olsonist

They tried to recall Arpaio in 2007. That failed and he got reelected in 2008 with 55% of the vote. At this point, you have to view Arpaio as an expression of the Phoenicians' values and will.

Much of Phoenix is embarrassed by him. It's the Sun City nutters that are grumpy, old and voting in large numbers. A microcosm of our generic national Teaist problems.

54 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:50:51pm

re: #17 Charles

Nope.

By the way, I thought you were being paid off by those Evil Zionists. Not these guys.

" while you're caterwauling about right wing Christian fundamentalist hatemongers, you sure don't seem to have a problem taking their money"

/Playing both sides against each other. How totally diabolical

55 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:51:19pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh don't worry... if you were to ask actual Jews on the matter... we get it. People who see our death or conversion as part of their mythology are not our friends. Perry and his ilk is terrifying, and as Jews, we are always caught between fools like him on the far right, and fools on the far left, who think we eat Arab babies.

But the best response to Perry et al. is Perfect this!

Ha! The NY response: "I gottcha Raptcha right here".

56 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:51:29pm

It is pretty funny, though, to see Vinnie at Jawa Report slavishly imitating Andrew Breitbart's insults (twice!), but making them sound even dumber.

57 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:51:41pm

re: #33 Charleston Chew

They fear sharia jazz.

In the Mahmoud?
Straigt no Chador?

short on ideas tonite...

58 simoom  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:51:58pm

The idiotic blog controversy for the day involves the President briefly waving to someone during the UN Open Government Forum group photo session. While pool photographers from three wire services snapped dozens of photos during the session, for example:
Image: 1000x.jpg
and
Image: 1000x.jpg

Apparently only this one zoomed-in shot matters (///):
Image: 1000x.jpg
Perhaps in the RW version of reality there was only a single, official photograph, and not a hundred-plus to select the best from, and so the President ruined the whole darn thing.

59 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:53:20pm

re: #30 Olsonist

They tried to recall Arpaio in 2007. That failed and he got reelected in 2008 with 55% of the vote. At this point, you have to view Arpaio as an expression of the Phoenicians' values and will.

They want Law and Order and they want low tax rates. Joe Arpaio is the natural consequence of that convergence of priorities.

60 erik_t  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:54:03pm

re: #58 simoom

The idiotic blog controversy for the day involves the President briefly waving to someone during the UN Open Government Forum group photo session.... Perhaps in the RW version of reality there was only a single, official photograph, and not a hundred-plus to select the best from, and so the President ruined the whole darn thing.

But... I thought we hated and wanted out of the UN?

62 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:55:32pm

re: #60 erik_t

But... I thought we hated and wanted out of the UN?

I do

63 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:55:33pm

re: #58 simoom

The idiotic blog controversy for the day involves the President briefly waving to someone during the UN Open Government Forum group photo session. While pool photographers from three wire services snapped dozens of photos during the session, for example:
Image: 1000x.jpg
and
Image: 1000x.jpg

Apparently only this one zoomed-in shot matters (///):
Image: 1000x.jpg
Perhaps in the RW version of reality there was only a single, official photograph, and not a hundred-plus to select the best from, and so the President ruined the whole darn thing.

That doesn't look like real Tea Party Americans.

64 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:55:35pm

re: #61 Gus 802

To show the base level of that mouth breather "Vinnie" at The Jawa Report...

lol star wars

65 erik_t  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:56:48pm

re: #60 erik_t

But... I thought we hated and wanted out of the UN?

I forgot to make that italicized and purple. Speaking of which... how does one easily make something italicized and purple?

66 aagcobb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:56:51pm

re: #50 ralphieboy

We were discussing this last night: their suport of Israel has nothing to do with respect for Judaism or concern for the well-being of its people. They would like to see the people converted to Christianity, but failing that, would rather see them destroyed.

All in the name of jump-starting Armageddon and pricipitating the Second Coming.

I love you, and its a shame you will be cast down into the Pit of Fire for eternity, but at least I'm heaven-bound!

67 Gus  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:57:01pm

re: #64 WindUpBird

lol star wars

They're fightin' for YOUR freedom!

//

68 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 12:57:44pm

re: #67 Gus 802

They're fightin' for YOUR freedom!

//

Apparently he's fighting for the freedom to attach himself to someone else's hard work

weak people, gotta love them

69 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:00:39pm

re: #58 simoom

I haven't really looked into this nontroversy, but are they also bitching about him being in the second row instead of out front?

70 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:00:44pm

One of my favorite bands from down Arizona way is Roger Clyne & The Peacemakers.

An earlier incarnation of the band was The Refreshments, who had a minor hit about 15 years ago with the song "Banditos."

I'd like to quote from that song, if I may.

"Everybody knows, that the world is full of stupid people..."

71 aagcobb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:00:56pm

re: #65 erik_t

I forgot to make that italicized and purple. Speaking of which... how does one easily make something italicized and purple?

[ wingnut ] purple [ /wingnut ]

Just eliminate the spaces between brackets and wingnut

72 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:00:59pm

re: #70 BongCrodny

One of my favorite bands from down Arizona way is Roger Clyne & The Peacemakers.

An earlier incarnation of the band was The Refreshments, who had a minor hit about 15 years ago with the song "Banditos."

I'd like to quote from that song, if I may.

"Everybody knows, that the world is full of stupid people..."

ROGER CLYNE! fuck yes

73 simoom  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:01:37pm

re: #65 erik_t

I forgot to make that italicized and purple. Speaking of which... how does one easily make something italicized and purple?

The tags are [/wingnut] and [wingnut]. I wrote them in reverse order so as not to trigger them ;-P. Mind the square brackets.

74 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:02:30pm

re: #70 BongCrodny

State of the Art being one of my favorites

Youtube Video
75 HAL2010  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:02:32pm

Someone should ask Perry if he believes Jews need to be "perfected".

The Christianist fanatics don't care about Jews, in their mythology all Jews will go to hell after the rapture.

Fuck you Jawa, this is one of the most pro-Israel blogs on the web.

76 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:03:24pm

re: #75 HAL2010

there's just something great about the phrase "Fuck you Jawa"

77 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:03:32pm

re: #34 Charles

Leaning toward not.

It's interesting that Rick Perry and Christian Zionists in general believe all Jews must convert to Christianity. The second coming of Jesus, in their mythology, depends on the complete destruction of Judaism.

But I'm the antisemite?

They very much want you to respond. If I were you I wouldn't attempt to defend myself on this. I used encounter this crap all the time with people who wanted me to go into a defensive crouch for things that I had nothing to do with, so they could then turn around and accuse you of being an apologist and a liar. You have done nothing wrong. There is nothing you need to defend.

It will be obvious to anyone who cares to spend 5 minutes looking through the LGF archives that you're not an anti-Semite. Those who don't care to spend 5 minutes will never believe you no matter what rebuttal you give.

78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:03:51pm

Your wingnut tax dollars at work.

79 HAL2010  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:04:55pm

re: #76 WindUpBird

Say it loud, rolls quite nicely off the tongue if you ask me.

80 shutdown  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:06:17pm

OT: Best comment on the new Facebook layout I have seen today
Image: x72PQ.png

81 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:08:50pm

Wow, if I lived in his county I'm sure I'd feel like 100% of my county dollars were going to the protection of myself and my neighbors. //

82 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:09:04pm

ahahahah Berkeley: [Link: www.flickr.com...]

83 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:10:38pm

re: #81 Bulworth

Wow, if I lived in his county I'm sure I'd feel like 100% of my county dollars were going to the protection of myself and my neighbors. //

you're sure this investigation is funded by tax dollars?

84 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:11:26pm

I'm also quite sure there are absolutely no, I mean no, genuine cold cases of murders and such things that need solving in his county. //

85 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:11:53pm

Everything you ever needed to know about Joe Arpaio, in one photograph:

Joe Arpaio and "Vito" Lombardi

"Vito" here, being of Stormfront fame.
There's also pictures, and video of Arpaio posing with, and speaking at rallies hosted by such illustrious figures in the white nationalist movement as Stromfront site creator Don Black, and Arizona's own J.T. Ready.

86 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:13:03pm

re: #85 RadicalModerate

Everything you ever needed to know about Joe Arpaio, in one photograph:

Joe Arpaio and "Vito" Lombardi

"Vito" here, being of Stormfront fame.
There's also pictures, and video of Arpaio posing with, and speaking at rallies hosted by such illustrious figures in the white nationalist movement as Stromfront site creator Don Black, and Arizona's own J.T. Ready.

Don Black and J.T. Ready, you can't make these names up

87 shutdown  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:13:33pm

re: #83 albusteve

you're sure this investigation is funded by tax dollars?

It is allegedly funded by donations. However, Arpaio's professional time belongs to the county taxpayers. There is some serious blurring of lines when a sheriff applies his investigative knowledge in an undertaking of his own, not in the immediate interest of his employers. Plus, the resources are meant to be used in the pursuit of county business, no matter who is paying for them. In chanspeak: not your personal army.

88 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:15:38pm

re: #87 imp_62

It is allegedly funded by donations. However, Arpaio's professional time belongs to the county taxpayers. There is some serious blurring of lines when a sheriff applies his investigative knowledge in an undertaking of his own, not in the immediate interest of his employers. Plus, the resources are meant to be used in the pursuit of county business, no matter who is paying for them. In chanspeak: not your personal army.

I can't find where his role is defined...I can't believe the tax payers would allow him personally to pursue this....all 242 petition signees

89 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:15:42pm

re: #87 imp_62

It is allegedly funded by donations. However, Arpaio's professional time belongs to the county taxpayers. There is some serious blurring of lines when a sheriff applies his investigative knowledge in an undertaking of his own, not in the immediate interest of his employers. Plus, the resources are meant to be used in the pursuit of county business, no matter who is paying for them. In chanspeak: not your personal army.

And I'd say it's doubtful all this investigative work will be done totally on his personal and vacation time...

90 shutdown  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:17:45pm

re: #89 oaktree

Arpaio is becoming a caricature of a sheriff. Unfortunately, a caricature with a gun and considerable influence in the Nutterbutter world of Birtherism.

91 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:18:03pm

re: #89 oaktree

And I'd say it's doubtful all this investigative work will be done totally on his personal and vacation time...

sounds to me like his posse is going to do the legwork....regardless, so few people are actually interested that I have to assume it's just another stunt for more attention

92 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:18:56pm

Killgore Trout, since you seemed interested in the Fed thread: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

93 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:20:48pm

re: #83 albusteve

you're sure this investigation is funded by tax dollars?

Given this is Arpaio we're talking about, a good percentage of those tax dollars over the past several years (to the tune of around $100 million) have been going to line his, and his political buddies' pockets.

[Link: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...]

94 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:22:03pm

It was a brutally hot day in Maricopa County, hotter than the hell sure to be reserved for well-meaning liberals.

As I sat in my air-conditioned office, I eyeballed the stranger across from me. He was a white-haired gentleman who smelled of the East Coast. He said, “You might be familiar with my work. I wrote “Showdown with Nuclear Iran: Radical Islam's Messianic Mission to Destroy Israel and Cripple the United States.”

“I’m not familiar with that one,” I said.

“Well, perhaps you’ve read “Atomic Iran: How the Terrorist Regime Bought the Bomb and American Politicians”?

“I don’t do much reading,” I answered. “The brutally hot Maricopa County heat makes the pages stick to each other.”

He shrugged, and then his eyes began to twinkle. “I’m the Swift Boat guy.”

I nodded. I now understood the type of man I was dealing with: a man capable of of disrupting the campaign of a major Presidential candidate is a man who should be afforded respect. It's the way things work all over the world, and Maricopa County is no different.

He leaned over the desk in conspiratorial manner, and passed an envelope my way. “I’ve been to the press,” he said. “Nobody seems interested I this. They were for a while, but it seems like every street, every avenue, every boulevard, every cul-de-sac…leads back to Hawaii.”

I stared at the documents. If true, this could be big, bigger than the sun as it brutally beat down on Maricopa County.

They call me Sheriff Joe. I carry a badge.

95 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:23:17pm

re: #94 BongCrodny

I lol'ed.

Whenever I read "Maricopa County", I have to think of Krazy Kat, btw.

96 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:23:59pm
These days Maricopa County’s Sheriff Joe Arpaio is like the hottest girl at prom: everyone wants a piece of him, and suitors have come a-wooing.

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) swung by Arizona yesterday, hoping to get Arpaio’s endorsement for her presidential bid. A week or so ago, Texas Governor Rick Perry began reaching out for the Sheriff’s support. Yesterday, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney gave him a call. Even longshot candidate and former Godfather’s Pizza executive Herman Cain has attempted to kiss the Arpaio ring.

[...]

Emphasis added.

97 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:25:22pm

Where's Orly Taitz when you need her?

98 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:25:49pm

Hopefully, Arpaio will get to the truth behind Obama's birth quickly.

So that he can move on to finding the truth behind what happened on 9/11.

99 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:25:57pm

re: #97 Amory Blaine

Or David Duke?

100 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:26:41pm

re: #93 RadicalModerate

Given this is Arpaio we're talking about, a good percentage of those tax dollars over the past several years (to the tune of around $100 million) have been going to line his, and his political buddies' pockets.

[Link: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...]

whatever...to claim he is financing this caper with tax dollars without knowing if it's true is wingnutty

101 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:30:43pm

Arpaio has had some success at finding crooks -- on his staff.

More bad news today for Arizona’s Sheriff Joe Arpaio: following news that he misspent $100 million in taxpayer funds and failed to investigate 400 sex crimes cases, “America’s Toughest Sheriff” found himself sporting another black eye yesterday after the arrest of three employees involved in a drug- and human-trafficking ring.

Deputy Alfredo Navarrette and detention officers Sylvia Najera and Marcella Hernandez are accused of laundering money, moving drugs for a trafficking organization with ties to Mexico, and using intelligence from the Sheriff’s office to guide smugglers through Arizona’s Maricopa County.

Investigators say that the ring mostly moved heroin through the county, and would traffic about $56,000 worth of drugs a week. The raid yesterday netted 10 pounds of heroin, and nearly $200,000 in cash, weapons, vehicles, and stolen property.

Navarette has worked with the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office (MCSO) for nearly a decade, at one point serving in a unit designed to target human smuggling. But it is believed that Navarette was himself a human smuggler; two undocumented immigrants were found in his home when he was arrested yesterday morning. He is being accused of 19 violations including conspiracy, money laundering, and human smuggling, and is being held on $1 million cash bond.

[...]

102 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:32:18pm

re: #100 albusteve

whatever...to claim he is financing this caper with tax dollars without knowing if it's true is wingnutty

Given that the US Justice Department is putting together a criminal case against Arpaio (and the investigation started in 2008, under GWB's watch, so no ODS allowed here), I don't think that these reports fall under "wingnutty" at all. There are already underlings of his who have agreed to testify under immunity agreements.

103 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:32:37pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Arpaio has had some success at finding crooks -- on his staff.

In his town, the crooks wear the badges

104 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:33:09pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Arpaio has had some success at finding crooks -- on his staff.

I predict the Murdoch Defense coming right up...

105 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:33:19pm

re: #102 RadicalModerate

Given that the US Justice Department is putting together a criminal case against Arpaio (and the investigation started in 2008, under GWB's watch, so no ODS allowed here), I don't think that these reports fall under "wingnutty" at all. There are already underlings of his who have agreed to testify under immunity agreements.

close don't count

106 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:34:34pm

OT: Mittens hires Norm Coleman.

After Taking Millions In Wall Street Cash, Romney Appoints Wall Street Front Group Chairman As Policy Adviser

I'd been hoping to have seen the last of that guy's mug. Guess not.

107 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:35:42pm

re: #106 makeitstop

Congress and politics in general may not be green, but political cronyism sure does a whole lot of recycling.

108 MicheleR  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:35:52pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote
Well said

109 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:37:32pm

re: #106 makeitstop

Washington has the biggest recycling program in the world.

110 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:39:35pm

I wish Joe Arpaio or World Nut Daily or Orly Taitz gave the same tenacious effort reviewing the case of Troy Davis.

111 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:40:23pm

It is not in the best interests of business to lower unemployment rates to near zero. There is a balance between the costs of producing, including wages paid, and the ability of potential buyers to pay.

Is there a better way to prevent common consideration of this than the sidesplitting entertainment provided by the insane?

112 MicheleR  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:41:36pm

re: #110 BigPapa
I could not agree more

113 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:43:11pm

re: #77 CuriousLurker

They very much want you to respond. If I were you I wouldn't attempt to defend myself on this. I used encounter this crap all the time with people who wanted me to go into a defensive crouch for things that I had nothing to do with, so they could then turn around and accuse you of being an apologist and a liar. You have done nothing wrong. There is nothing you need to defend.

It will be obvious to anyone who cares to spend 5 minutes looking through the LGF archives that you're not an anti-Semite. Those who don't care to spend 5 minutes will never believe you no matter what rebuttal you give.

This.

Even us just discussing it like this is probably enough for the RWNJs at Jawa and elsewhere to get their jollies. No bit of rational discussion is going to change irrational minds.

114 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:43:47pm

BBML

115 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:43:56pm

re: #86 WindUpBird

Don Black and J.T. Ready, you can't make these names up

Vito, Don, J.T. and Joe, the Party Posse.

/superliminal

116 RadicalModerate  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:44:22pm

Joe Arpaio is the perfect caricature of a rural Mississippi sheriff during the Jim Crow-era.

Racist, corrupt as hell, and stacks his entire political and law enforcement machine with family and close friends (many of whom are as crooked as he is).

It's damn crazy that he's pulled this off in the most populous county of the state of Arizona.

117 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:45:07pm

re: #113 talon_262

Exactly. If they were rational they wouldn't be called wingnuts.

118 TedStriker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:49:32pm

re: #116 RadicalModerate

Joe Arpaio is the perfect caricature of a rural Mississippi sheriff during the Jim Crow-era.

Racist, corrupt as hell, and stacks his entire political and law enforcement machine with family and close friends (many of whom are as crooked as he is).

It's damn crazy that he's pulled this off in the most populous county of the state of Arizona.

Because there's apparently enough RWNJs in Maricopa County to, up to this point, keep him in office and to give him the political juice he craves.

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 1:50:13pm

re: #113 talon_262

This.

Even us just discussing it like this is probably enough for the RWNJs at Jawa and elsewhere to get their jollies. No bit of rational discussion is going to change irrational minds.

but they have the death star playset!

120 erik_t  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:01:59pm

re: #118 talon_262

Because there's apparently enough RWNJs in Maricopa County to, up to this point, keep him in office and to give him the political juice he craves.

Not shocking.

121 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:04:18pm

re: #120 erik_t

Not shocking.

I don't get it

122 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:13:44pm

re: #121 albusteve

I don't get it

From the link:

The racial makeup of the CDP was 98.71% White, 0.49% Black or African American, 0.05% Native American, 0.37% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 0.07% from other races, and 0.27% from two or more races. 0.58% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.

There were 14,997 households out of which none had children under the age of 18 living with them, 67.1% were married couples living together, 1.5% had a female householder with no husband present, and 30.9% were non-families. 29.1% of all households were made up of individuals and 26.5% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 1.74 and the average family size was 2.04.

In the CDP the population was spread out with 0.1% under the age of 18, 0.1% from 18 to 24, 1.0% from 25 to 44, 16.4% from 45 to 64, and 82.4% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 73 years. For every 100 females there were 82.3 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 82.3 males.

123 Olsonist  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:16:00pm

re: #122 Shiplord Kirel

98.71% White with a median age of 73 years, all chanting in unison,

Stay Off My Lawn!

124 erik_t  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:16:47pm

re: #121 albusteve

I don't get it

Old people tend to vote in droves and vote heavily GOP. Arizona's political environment would be substantially different without the Snowbirds.

125 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:16:56pm

re: #122 Shiplord Kirel

From the link:

I wasn't shocked in the first place that he can be elected....the numbers are a nice touch I guess

126 Alexzander  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:19:11pm

Joe Arpaio has a posse.

127 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:20:40pm

re: #126 Alexzander

Joe Arpaio has a posse.

yes, old white people

128 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:21:15pm

re: #123 Olsonist

98.71% White with a median age of 73 years, all chanting in unison,

I can dig it (I'm 62).

129 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:21:29pm

re: #124 erik_t

Old people tend to vote in droves and vote heavily GOP. Arizona's political environment would be substantially different without the Snowbirds.

Not so, at least in the last Presidential election

50 (+) y/o was almost evenly split D and R
[Link: www.historycentral.com...]

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:22:05pm

re: #124 erik_t

Old people tend to vote in droves and vote heavily GOP. Arizona's political environment would be substantially different without the Snowbirds.

My friend who moved from Arizona to Portland describes Arizona where he lived (heavily GOP) as being like a white supremacist twilight zone

131 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:22:14pm

re: #128 Shiplord Kirel

I can dig it (I'm 62).

wow ,, FINALLY ,, someone here a tad older than me!!

GET OFF MY LAWN, GRANPA!!

132 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:24:49pm

re: #128 Shiplord Kirel

I can dig it (I'm 62).

just reaching your peak I hope...I'm 59 and beat to shit, but I'm rebounding

133 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:27:08pm

re: #130 WindUpBird

My friend who moved from Arizona to Portland describes Arizona where he lived (heavily GOP) as being like a white supremacist twilight zone

Phoenix has an unreal quality to it...it's not particularly pretty and you have to ask yourself...what's all this doing here?...an insult to nature imo

134 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:27:40pm

re: #116 RadicalModerate

Joe Arpaio is the perfect caricature of a rural Mississippi sheriff during the Jim Crow-era.

Racist, corrupt as hell, and stacks his entire political and law enforcement machine with family and close friends (many of whom are as crooked as he is).

It's damn crazy that he's pulled this off in the most populous county of the state of Arizona.

Where's Buford Pusser when you need him?

135 Alexzander  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:29:26pm

I'm 26.

136 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:29:55pm

re: #135 Alexzander

I'm 26.

Braggart.
/

I'm 58.

137 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:30:00pm

re: #134 makeitstop

Where's Buford Pusser when you need him?

He's very old now and hasn't acted since 2009!!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
//

138 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:30:23pm

re: #135 Alexzander

I'm 26.

26!?!?!?

Hell,.,, I have things in my freezer older than that!

139 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:30:56pm

re: #137 sattv4u2

He's very old now and hasn't acted since 2009!!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
//

Didn't they remake that movie with The Rock, or am I thinking about a different movie?

140 Kronocide  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:31:25pm

How to make a creationist weep

Mark Morford

I know everything, the Age of Enlightenment: 42.

141 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:32:04pm

re: #139 makeitstop

Didn't they remake that movie with The Rock, or am I thinking about a different movie?

Nope

You're right

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

But I was going for the "too old to be helpful" angle

142 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:33:47pm

re: #141 sattv4u2

Nope

You're right

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

But I was going for the "too old to be helpful" angle

Oh, I got that bit. I was just typing and couldn't stop and the remake question came to mind. :)

143 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:35:07pm

re: #139 makeitstop

Didn't they remake that movie with The Rock, or am I thinking about a different movie?

best scene in the movie, imho

Youtube Video
144 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:35:33pm

re: #142 makeitstop

Oh, I got that bit. I was just typing and couldn't stop and the remake question came to mind. :)

n/p

145 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:35:38pm

A very good argument for unions. This happened in the US.

Amazon’s Best Excuses for Abusing Sick and Pregnant Workers

146 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:42:36pm

re: #17 Charles

No.

147 Four More Tears  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:44:19pm

I can totally picture Arpaio pulling a Jack Bauer on Donald Trump demanding to know what his men found out...

148 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:45:17pm

Less then 90 minutes from the execution of Troy Davis. I do support the death penalty for some crimes, but I find this case to be extremely troubling. When basic forensic evidence that figured into the conviction is later found to be flat wrong and 5 out of 7 witnessess say they lied or were coerced...I think another trial is in order. Proceeding with an execution in this case strikes me as insane.

149 Charleston Chew  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:45:23pm

re: #145 ProLifeLiberal

A very good argument for unions. This happened in the US.

Amazon’s Best Excuses for Abusing Sick and Pregnant Workers

Meanwhile, $42 million of Amazon money is going to a giant cock, I mean a giant clock.... funded by a giant cock.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

150 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:45:39pm

Sheriff Jackass to the rescue.

151 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:49:23pm

re: #149 Charleston Chew

Meanwhile, $42 million of Amazon money is going to a giant cock, I mean a giant clock... funded by a giant cock.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

My God. Unbelievable.

152 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:50:46pm

re: #151 celticdragon

My God. Unbelievable.

he's creating jobs

153 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:52:36pm

re: #149 Charleston Chew

Talk about a vanity project.

154 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:54:02pm

re: #145 ProLifeLiberal

A very good argument for unions. This happened in the US.

Amazon’s Best Excuses for Abusing Sick and Pregnant Workers

PARASITIC OONIONS DESTROY JOBS AND PRODUCTIVITY!! CLASS WARFARE!!

155 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:54:59pm

re: #152 albusteve

he's creating jobs

His money
His clock!

156 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:55:04pm

Speaking of assholes...

Fischer: We should support Israel because God says so

157 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:56:04pm

re: #153 ProLifeLiberal

Talk about a vanity project.

all billionaires do this sort of stuff...even raging dems like Ted Turner who spent a few hundred mil winning the America Cup

158 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:56:41pm

re: #153 ProLifeLiberal

Talk about a vanity project.

The only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys".

159 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:57:03pm

re: #149 Charleston Chew

Meanwhile, $42 million of Amazon money is going to a giant cock, I mean a giant clock... funded by a giant cock.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

so is the clock wound by pregnant woman inside the clock's 110 degree inner workings

160 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:57:10pm

re: #156 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of assholes...

Fischer: We should support Israel because God says so

show me the tape....sooner or later these conversations with God need to become public

161 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:57:16pm

re: #152 albusteve

he's creating jobs

He is using temps that he can fire without cause and puts them into hazardous conditions that have lead to a local doctor calling OSHA to report the situation after people started showing up with heat injuries(at least one person actually passed out with heat stroke at the water fountain). Complaining can get you fired. For Christ's sake, they hired paramedics to be stationed outside the warehouse door because of the heat...but refuse to open the damned door and let the warehouse air out!!

162 Alexzander  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:57:58pm

re: #148 celticdragon

Less then 90 minutes from the execution of Troy Davis. I do support the death penalty for some crimes, but I find this case to be extremely troubling. When basic forensic evidence that figured into the conviction is later found to be flat wrong and 5 out of 7 witnessess say they lied or were coerced...I think another trial is in order. Proceeding with an execution in this case strikes me as insane.

Agreed. I really cannot believe the execution is going forward. How embarrassing for our country.

163 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:58:47pm

re: #159 WindUpBird

so is the clock wound by pregnant woman inside the clock's 110 degree inner workings

no, minority children....the little scamps can earn their porridge

164 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:58:56pm

re: #157 albusteve

all billionaires do this sort of stuff...even raging dems like Ted Turner who spent a few hundred mil winning the America Cup

heh,,, when he owned the Atlanta Braves he sent the manager out of town on a "scouting trip" so Ted himself could manage the team for a night

165 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 2:59:28pm

re: #160 albusteve

show me the tape...sooner or later these conversations with God need to become public

They have a transcript that an incendiary topiary made for them. Will that suffice?

166 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:00:58pm

re: #161 celticdragon

He is using temps that he can fire without cause and puts them into hazardous conditions that have lead to a local doctor calling OSHA to report the situation after people started showing up with heat injuries(at least one person actually passed out with heat stroke at the water fountain). Complaining can get you fired. For Christ's sake, they hired paramedics to be stationed outside the warehouse door because of the heat...but refuse to open the damned door and let the warehouse air out!!

Yeah, you gotta love that. They can afford to hire paramedics, but hiring security to protect against theft while the doors are open? Why would I not be surprised to find out that it's just cheaper for them to keep paramedics stationed to avoid lawsuits than to hire rent-a-cops?

167 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:01:06pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They have a transcript that an incendiary topiary made for them. Will that suffice?

not for me...I want to question the dude myself...does he have a phone?

168 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:02:08pm

re: #166 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, you gotta love that. They can afford to hire paramedics, but hiring security to protect against theft while the doors are open? Why would I not be surprised to find out that it's just cheaper for them to keep paramedics stationed to avoid lawsuits than to hire rent-a-cops?

who's they?...it's a he

169 Kragar  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:03:19pm

re: #167 albusteve

not for me...I want to question the dude myself...does he have a phone?

He screens his calls apparently.

170 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:04:18pm

And now,

The Making Of The Dinner!!


bbl

171 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:05:05pm

in lieu of Brazos, I condemn all conservatives world wide....lets just cut to the chase...(or is he a donk?)

172 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:05:47pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He screens his calls apparently.

then I'll return the favor

173 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:05:51pm

re: #168 albusteve

who's they?...it's a he

Well, unless Bezos is doing all the paperwork for every manager within the ranks of Amazon, I was speaking about the assholes in charge of the warehouse that was referenced in the link posted by ProLife.

174 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:06:54pm

re: #173 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, unless Bezos is doing all the paperwork for every manager within the ranks of Amazon, I was speaking about the assholes in charge of the warehouse that was referenced in the link posted by ProLife.

tangent...we're trashing Brazos here...stay on target

175 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:09:24pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

No, pigs like that should just be ignored.
My 2 cents

176 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:09:52pm

So Abbas backs down, and appears to have backed off a call to declare statehood for a Palestinian state.

Abbas reportedly gave in, telling President Obama at their meeting Wednesday that although he will ask the UN for statehood, he will not demand an immediate vote. That means the U.S. will continue to give the Palestinians the $450 million in annual aid they get from us, but it’s unclear if this will mean more anti-American sentiment in the Arab world.

“We will give some time for the Security Council to consider first our full membership before heading to the General Assembly,” senior Fatah Party official Nabile Shaath said.

“President Abbas has already met with Ban Ki-Moon. The Secretary-General of the United Nations, and told him that on Friday he would be submitting to him a letter asking for Security Council discussion and approval.”

“Let us cease our endless debates on the parameters and let us begin negotiations and adopt a precise and ambitious timetable,” French President Nicholas Sarkozy said.

French strategy, in concert with the Americans, is to entice the Palestinians back to the bargaining table by proposing a fast-track one-year time table for negotiations that result in Palestinian statehood.

“Let’s have one month to resume discussions, six months to find agreement on borders and security, one year to reach definitive agreement,” Sarkozy said.

The French/American strategy appears to have gotten some traction, but it again hinges on Palestinian acceptance on Israel's existence.

Israel has repeatedly shown itself willing to cede territory, and settlements were not, are not, and will continue not to be the real impediment to peace. A lack of a partner in peace is the real reason for a lack of a deal. Diplomats will continue to ignore that key point in pushing for some kind of a deal - hoping that a cold peace is better than an ongoing low-level conflict.

177 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:10:27pm

re: #174 albusteve

tangent...we're trashing Brazos here...stay on target

What does that accomplish? I doubt that the depth of his understanding of what happens in his company on a day-to-day basis goes past the boardroom, and I likewise doubt that any of the people who answer directly to him will bring up the fact that they're operating a sweatshop.

178 allegro  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:11:10pm

re: #174 albusteve

tangent...we're trashing Brazos here...stay on target

Brazos is a river in Texas. Quite a lovely river. Least it was when it had actual water in it.

179 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:11:38pm

re: #176 lawhawk

So Abbas backs down, and appears to have backed off a call to declare statehood for a Palestinian state.

The French/American strategy appears to have gotten some traction, but it again hinges on Palestinian acceptance on Israel's existence.

Israel has repeatedly shown itself willing to cede territory, and settlements were not, are not, and will continue not to be the real impediment to peace. A lack of a partner in peace is the real reason for a lack of a deal. Diplomats will continue to ignore that key point in pushing for some kind of a deal - hoping that a cold peace is better than an ongoing low-level conflict.

$450mil is a nice allowance....Abbas is a thug and should be treated accordingly

180 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:12:06pm

re: #176 lawhawk

So Abbas backs down, and appears to have backed off a call to declare statehood for a Palestinian state.

The French/American strategy appears to have gotten some traction, but it again hinges on Palestinian acceptance on Israel's existence.

Israel has repeatedly shown itself willing to cede territory, and settlements were not, are not, and will continue not to be the real impediment to peace. A lack of a partner in peace is the real reason for a lack of a deal. Diplomats will continue to ignore that key point in pushing for some kind of a deal - hoping that a cold peace is better than an ongoing low-level conflict.

Wonder what the GOP response will be tomorrow. My guess is "Yeah, well, he's still asking for statehood! This would never have happened under our watch!"

181 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:12:13pm

re: #177 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What does that accomplish? I doubt that the depth of his understanding of what happens in his company on a day-to-day basis goes past the boardroom, and I likewise doubt that any of the people who answer directly to him will bring up the fact that they're operating a sweatshop.

preach it brother

182 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:12:58pm

A former warden on the Georgia death row is now calling for a halt to the execution of Troy Davis.

183 windsagio  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:14:22pm

re: #176 lawhawk

Its always good to come here and get a good dose of "reality" on the Palestine question :p

184 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:14:28pm

re: #178 allegro

Brazos is a river in Texas. Quite a lovely river. Least it was when it had actual water in it.

runs through the Hill country...I don't recall it ever running dry, and there is a lot of water down under all that limestone...I could be wrong

185 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:15:55pm

re: #179 albusteve

Abbas is a thug, but since the Oslo process started in 1993 it is the official position of the US to fund the Palestinian Authority as a means of pushing it towards a peace deal with Israel. That's despite the PA comprising both Fatah and Hamas (after elections in 2006 giving Hamas a majority in the PA parliament), with the latter a terror organization that is on the State Department list.

186 allegro  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:16:13pm

re: #184 albusteve

runs through the Hill country...I don't recall it ever running dry, and there is a lot of water down under all that limestone...I could be wrong

It isn't dry but it is shockingly low down here.

187 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:16:19pm

re: #183 windsagio

Its always good to come here and get a good dose of "reality" on the Palestine question :p

Lawhawk is our ME expert here...check out his blog once in a while

188 Alexzander  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:18:46pm

re: #182 celticdragon

A former warder on the Georgia death row is now calling for a halt to the execution of Troy Davis.

Wow. 40 minutes to go, until we prove we still live in the dark ages.

189 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:19:03pm

re: #185 lawhawk

Abbas is a thug, but since the Oslo process started in 1993 it is the official position of the US to fund the Palestinian Authority as a means of pushing it towards a peace deal with Israel. That's despite the PA comprising both Fatah and Hamas (after elections in 2006 giving Hamas a majority in the PA parliament), with the latter a terror organization that is on the State Department list.

I realize we need to deal with him, but only on our terms, which is working out today...he's just another Arafat imo...in a three piece suit

190 Alexzander  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:20:42pm

re: #182 celticdragon

A former warder on the Georgia death row is now calling for a halt to the execution of Troy Davis.

In addition to the warden, Jimmy Carter, Al Sharpton, Pope Benedict XVI, Nobel laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu, presidential candidate Bob Barr and former FBI Director and judge William S. Sessions have all called for a new trial.

191 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:21:06pm

abu
abbas
atbat

abbamus
abbatis
abbcant

hamo
hamas
hazmat

192 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:22:14pm

re: #145 ProLifeLiberal

A very good argument for unions. This happened in the US.

Amazon’s Best Excuses for Abusing Sick and Pregnant Workers

Workers in an Amazon.com warehouse were routinely sent to the emergency room because of sweltering, suffocating heat that sometimes exceeded 110 degrees — and because Amazon refused to open warehouse doors, fearing theft

Just like the Triangle Shirtwaist.

193 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:23:06pm

re: #190 Alexzander

In addition to the warden, Jimmy Carter, Al Sharpton, Pope Benedict XVI, Nobel laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu, presidential candidate Bob Barr and former FBI Director and judge William S. Sessions have all called for a new trial.

non of which has anything to do with the trial...changing testimony is cause enough...as for the Pope, he is a laughing stock with zero cred

194 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:23:07pm

Apropos of nothing does anyone present read/write Hebrew?

195 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:23:19pm

Oh, Alouette!

196 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:23:53pm

re: #194 CuriousLurker

Apropos of nothing does anyone present read/write Hebrew?

אני

197 Olsonist  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:24:37pm

re: #157 albusteve

all billionaires do this sort of stuff...even raging dems like Ted Turner who spent a few hundred mil winning the America Cup

Incorrect. Really incorrect. You might be thinking of Dennis Conner but Ted Turner is from the era of throw together a campaign and get a bunch of sailors. Courageous was a freaking used boat with which he tattooed Australia 4-0 in 1977.

198 celticdragon  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:24:52pm

re: #193 albusteve

non of which has anything to do with the trial...changing testimony is cause enough...as for the Pope, he is a laughing stock with zero cred

Bob Barr and William Sessions carry weight in my judgment.

199 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:25:38pm

re: #192 Alouette

I don't know how type it here, so going by the letters can you tell me if Alef-Mem-Yod-Nun-He would be the correct way to spell my name?

200 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:26:05pm

re: #199 CuriousLurker

I don't know how type it here, so going by the letters can you tell me if Alef-Mem-Yod-Nun-He would be the correct way to spell my name?

Obviously, going from right to left.

201 Alexzander  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:27:00pm

re: #193 albusteve

non of which has anything to do with the trial...changing testimony is cause enough...as for the Pope, he is a laughing stock with zero cred

True enough. Unfortunately, many people operate all day long under the fallacy of the the appeal to authority. It is the entire basis of commercial endorsements.

202 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:28:28pm

re: #199 CuriousLurker

I don't know how type it here, so going by the letters can you tell me if Alef-Mem-Yod-Nun-He would be the correct way to spell my name?

Hebrew spelling of non-Hebrew names is arbitrary, so you could spell it alef-mem-yod-nun-heh אמינה or alef-mem-yod-nun-alef אמינא or ayin-mem-yod-nun-heh/alef עמינא

203 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:29:12pm

re: #197 Olsonist

Incorrect. Really incorrect. You might be thinking of Dennis Conner but Ted Turner is from the era of throw together a campaign and get a bunch of sailors. Courageous was a freaking used boat with which he tattooed Australia 4-0 in 1977.

he won the Cup in 1977...probably cost him a mint...nothing incorrect about that

204 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:30:14pm

re: #202 Alouette

Thanks! I just wanted to see if I understood how the vowels work.

205 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:31:08pm

re: #204 CuriousLurker

Thanks! I just wanted to see if I understood how the vowels work.

Oh, you want vowels?

206 Alexzander  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:31:48pm

Has anyone here every been personally scammed by the short change trick?

207 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:32:12pm

re: #205 Alouette

The alef and yod aren't vowels (and also consonants)?

208 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:35:24pm

Testing something... אמ'נה

209 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:35:46pm

Okay, you can copy & paste it.

210 albusteve  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:35:49pm

re: #206 Alexzander

Has anyone here every been personally scammed by the short change trick?

LOL!...nobody here is that stupid
I hope

211 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:35:55pm

re: #207 CuriousLurker

The alef and yod aren't vowels (and also consonants)?

Vowels in Hebrew are typically represented by nekudot (dots and dashes over and underneath the letters). Alef and Ayin are unvoiced letters, and Yod corresponds to the consonant Y. Ayin is sometimes voiced as "ng" by German Jews. Heh is sometimes voiced and sometimes unvoiced, depending on its position in the word.

212 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:37:22pm

You can use the Windows character map to insert Hebrew characters, also there are HTML character mappings which you can find through Google.

213 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:37:43pm

re: #211 Alouette

Vowels in Hebrew are typically represented by nekudot (dots and dashes over and underneath the letters). Alef and Ayin are unvoiced letters, and Yod corresponds to the consonant Y. Ayin is sometimes voiced as "ng" by German Jews. Heh is sometimes voiced and sometimes unvoiced, depending on its position in the word.

doesn't aleph often represent a vague thought about pronouncing an 'A' or 'E' type sound in that location in the word?

214 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:39:30pm

Right, Arabic has diacritical marks too, but mostly only for the Qur'an. Is it okay to write the name of Abraham (a.s.) here in Hebrew? Never mind, I'll just link to it... So , you mean like this?

215 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:40:12pm

re: #211 Alouette

re: #212 Alouette

Muchas gracias.

216 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:41:58pm

re: #214 CuriousLurker

Right, Arabic has diacritical marks too, but mostly only for the Qur'an. Is it okay to write the name of Abraham (a.s.) here in Hebrew? Never mind, I'll just link to it... So , you mean like this?

Sure you can write Abraham אברהם

Any Hebrew word is OK just we don't print G-D, even in English.

217 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:45:20pm

re: #215 CuriousLurker

Now I have a question for you.

I want to buy a new Shabbos robe, which is a garment that Jewish women wear on the Sabbath, which looks very similar to a jilbab.

There is no "sabbath robe" store where I live but there is a hijab store that I drive past every day on my way home from work. Would they think it was weird if I went in there and asked to try on a jilbab? Would they sell one to a non-Muslimah?

218 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:45:46pm

re: #216 Alouette

I knew about the God part in English so I knew it wouldn't be okay in Hebrew for sure, but I wasn't sure about the prophets when their names are in Hebrew and I didn't want to offend anyone. Thanks again, that's good to know.

219 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:49:03pm

re: #217 Alouette

Now I have a question for you.

I want to buy a new Shabbos robe, which is a garment that Jewish women wear on the Sabbath, which looks very similar to a jilbab.

There is no "sabbath robe" store where I live but there is a hijab store that I drive past every day on my way home from work. Would they think it was weird if I went in there and asked to try on a jilbab? Would they sell one to a non-Muslimah?

They probably wouldn't think it was weird, and I'm sure they'd be more interested in making a sale than anything else. I'm sure they'd sell one to you—there's not holy or special about a jilbab, it's just a piece of clothing.

220 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:50:23pm

re: #219 CuriousLurker

not holy = nothing holy

Heh, the Shabbos robes do look a lot like jilbabs.

221 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:51:23pm

re: #219 CuriousLurker

They probably wouldn't think it was weird, and I'm sure they'd be more interested in making a sale than anything else. I'm sure they'd sell one to you—there's not holy or special about a jilbab, it's just a piece of clothing.

I figured that's what you would say. I kind of think they all come from the same factory in Indonesia.

222 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:51:38pm

re: #17 Charles

Trying to decide if it's worth a post to respond to this: The Jawa Report: Charles Johnson Has A New Title.

It's amazing how in my simple blog navigation, and it's not much, all these places sound like the exact same clone of one person; mental age about 16 (I can remember some of that; a little) and an education of 10 (I know I had better at 16).

223 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:53:48pm

re: #221 Alouette

I figured that's what you would say. I kind of think they all come from the same factory in Indonesia.

LOL, I think so too. I can never find any that I like...I need wash-n-wear type stuff. I just stick with long skirts & long sleeved blouses.

224 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:58:15pm

re: #223 CuriousLurker

LOL, I think so too. I can never find any that I like...I need wash-n-wear type stuff. I just stick with long skirts & long sleeved blouses.

No offense meant here, and I respect you, but why do you stick with the Middle Eastern version of modesty when that is not where you are, nor when it is not proscribed in more specific terms than "modesty" when even we westerners have a pretty clear idea of what is modesty in public?

225 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 3:58:57pm

re: #224 Naso Tang

We have a clear idea of what modesty is in public?

226 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:04:08pm

re: #225 Obdicut

We have a clear idea of what modesty is in public?

Oh dear, I sense a force brewing.

We argue about it from time to time, but generally it is T-backs on the beach only (some beaches), never topless except in Europe. No genitalia and no sex in public.

We don't see it as a uniform to define a religion (eg, some Mormons, some Muslims, some Jews, and more). By WE I mean the majority of Western Society.

Your move.

227 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:04:29pm

re: #224 Naso Tang

No offense meant here, and I respect you, but why do you stick with the Middle Eastern version of modesty when that is not where you are, nor when it is not proscribed in more specific terms than "modesty" when even we westerners have a pretty clear idea of what is modesty in public?

For the same reason Alouette does.

228 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:05:32pm

re: #227 CuriousLurker

For the same reason Alouette does.

Should I have to ask her to continue this? I don't recall her style.

229 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:10:23pm

re: #228 Naso Tang

Should I have to ask her to continue this? I don't recall her style.

She's an Ultra Orthodox Jew, so she covers too. Aside from putting the scarf over my head instead of my shoulders (or wherever), I'm not dressed any differently than anyone else. All my clothes are bought off the rack in regular department stores. If that's too Middle Eastern for you, well... *shrug*

230 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:12:00pm

re: #224 Naso Tang

No offense meant here, and I respect you, but why do you stick with the Middle Eastern version of modesty when that is not where you are, nor when it is not proscribed in more specific terms than "modesty" when even we westerners have a pretty clear idea of what is modesty in public?

Where I work, it's called "business attire."

231 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:14:34pm

re: #226 Naso Tang

Oh.Well, I can tell you that's not modesty in New York, which is the largest city in the US. On a subway you'll see everything from a girl in a bikini to a full hijab.

And in San Francisco, similar standards applied, but with even more public nudism. Likewise, in Miami and lots of places in Florida, swimsuits are normal wear. LA has a pretty relaxed modesty as well.

I'd say the more interesting question is if modesty needs to be something external, or if it a much healthier and interesting kind isn't internal; is wearing clothing consciously chosen to be modest by your own standards.

That to me is more interesting than just checking on what the prevailing modest clothing is and checking that off the "God says do this" box. The former is a bit of an encounter with yourself.

232 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:18:03pm

re: #226 Naso Tang

Oh, and if you include Europe, there's a lot more tolerance for full nudism, including genitalia. In Germany there's tons of total public nudity, swimming in streams and rivers and the like. Lots of full nudity in Scandinavia. A lot more tolerance for nudity in Europe than in the US, in general.

233 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:20:58pm

re: #231 Obdicut

I'd say the more interesting question is if modesty needs to be something external, or if it a much healthier and interesting kind isn't internal; is wearing clothing consciously chosen to be modest by your own standards.

That to me is more interesting than just checking on what the prevailing modest clothing is and checking that off the "God says do this" box. The former is a bit of an encounter with yourself.

They're supposed to go hand in hand. Some Muslim women don't cover their hair; some wear crazy clothes, but do cover their hair; some wear jilbabs, some just wear skirts & long-sleeved blouses or dresses; some wear the niqab, some wear the niqab and gloves—I'm sure you've seen every variation in NYC. And if you go to Iran and other ME countries, you'll also find prostitutes wearing chadors, abaayas, and burqas. The covering by itself is meaningless.

234 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:23:18pm

About Troy Davis: Does Obama have any power in this. Could he put a stay of execution or something? Or is this the governor?

235 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:23:48pm

re: #233 CuriousLurker

I used to think I'd do well in a nearly-fully covered society since my favorite aspect of a girl is the eyes, it always what entrances me notice first.

I don't really think the modesty battle can be won on the field of clothing. A certain woman in the most modest dress would just attract more attention to her face, or eyes, etc.

It seems to me much more a manner of demeanor-- and that clothes could aid the person in reaching that demeanor.

It's interesting how much the question changes when it's about men, too. Makes you realize quickly how immodest men are.

236 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:25:16pm

re: #234 ProLifeLiberal

Governor. It's in the state court system. The most Obama could do would be politely ask the Supreme Court to hear an appeal, but it's their decision.


Right? Now I'm unsure. Anyone know for sure?

237 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:25:34pm

re: #233 CuriousLurker

They're supposed to go hand in hand. Some Muslim women don't cover their hair; some wear crazy clothes, but do cover their hair; some wear jilbabs, some just wear skirts & long-sleeved blouses or dresses; some wear the niqab, some wear the niqab and gloves—I'm sure you've seen every variation in NYC. And if you go to Iran and other ME countries, you'll also find prostitutes wearing chadors, abaayas, and burqas. The covering by itself is meaningless.

There are some crazy Jewish women who have taken up the burqa. They are considered whackjobs even among the most "ultra-Orthodox." However, their numbers, while marginal, are increasing. It is a disturbing trend.

238 MicheleR  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:27:13pm

re: #187 albusteve

Good to know, I will do so, Thanks :)

239 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:27:41pm

re: #235 Obdicut

Heh, yeah some the women that can only show their eyes have learned how to slay men with a glance.

In Islam 50% of hijab is supposed to be on the man's eyes (i.e. he should control his gaze and not leer).

240 MicheleR  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:29:59pm

re: #237 Alouette
Thanks for the link- I had no idea looking at it now on a different tab

241 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:30:56pm

re: #239 CuriousLurker

A lot of male thought goes into figuring out when it's okay to look and when it's not. I mean, if you're ethical, that is.

"Okay, she's dressed in miniskirt, punk-rock boots, and a corset. That's okay to openly look at, right? Or is that side-glances only?"

242 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:32:38pm

re: #237 Alouette

O_o Well, I guess as long as they're not hurting anyone... *lift up hands, shrugs* I'm rather more disturbed that people feel justified in physically & verbally assaulting them.

243 MicheleR  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:34:49pm

re: #237 Alouette
Interesting, the part about the newly religious being a part of this group. I am not sure why this caught my interest, but did make me pause, that those new to the observance are among those doing this.

244 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:35:00pm

re: #241 Obdicut

A lot of male thought goes into figuring out when it's okay to look and when it's not. I mean, if you're ethical, that is.

"Okay, she's dressed in miniskirt, punk-rock boots, and a corset. That's okay to openly look at, right? Or is that side-glances only?"

LOL! Well, our rule is the first "look" is halal provided it doesn't linger too long. But the second look gets you into sinful territory. ;)

245 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:36:49pm

re: #237 Alouette

It's been my experience that converts and "born agains" (the newly religious) then to be overenthusiastic at times.

246 MicheleR  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:46:13pm

re: #245 CuriousLurker
I had noticed that in people I have known in my life, when they embraced a new religious committment, it was with both hands.

247 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:49:37pm

re: #233 CuriousLurker

They're supposed to go hand in hand. Some Muslim women don't cover their hair; some wear crazy clothes, but do cover their hair; some wear jilbabs, some just wear skirts & long-sleeved blouses or dresses; some wear the niqab, some wear the niqab and gloves—I'm sure you've seen every variation in NYC. And if you go to Iran and other ME countries, you'll also find prostitutes wearing chadors, abaayas, and burqas. The covering by itself is meaningless.

This is a subject of interest, because in some countries who do a roaring trade in undergarments that can be worn under a simple cloak when in the street (or none worn at all), which is understandably kinky in any society, the issue is not one of personal modesty there. It is a law, whatever one thinks of it.

It seems to me that when in societies that do not have such strict laws, punishable readily, of female dress, and I add of male dress as well (shorts etc.); then it becomes a matter of stating that "I am different from you, and you can see it from the uniform I wear".

Of course the alternative statement in some neighborhoods is; "look at me, I'm just as different from all those others in the next street as you are".

248 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:50:11pm

re: #246 MicheleR

I had noticed that in people I have known in my life, when they embraced a new religious committment, it was with both hands.

Yeah, some temper their enthusiasm after a few years, others not so much.

249 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:55:52pm

re: #231 Obdicut

I'd say the more interesting question is if modesty needs to be something external, or if it a much healthier and interesting kind isn't internal; is wearing clothing consciously chosen to be modest by your own standards.

I have no problem with that in principle. Many people, hedonistic, insecure, fat, too skinny, whatever will dress more or less "modestly" within the prevailing norms.

My point is when that form of dress is worn as a uniform with the primary objective of making the statement that "this is who I am, and it different from you since I have this compulsion to make that obvious".

250 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:57:10pm

re: #249 Naso Tang

I have no problem with that in principle. Many people, hedonistic, insecure, fat, too skinny, whatever will dress more or less "modestly" within the prevailing norms.

My point is when that form of dress is worn as a uniform with the primary objective of making the statement that "this is who I am, and it different from you since I have this compulsion to make that obvious".

In that case you can put the "goth emo" at the top of the list.

251 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:57:21pm

re: #247 Naso Tang

There's nothing wrong with making a statement about being different, IMO. Some people wear cowboy hats & boots, some dress goth or punk, Sikhs wear turbans, Indian women Saris, African women brightly colored dresses and head wraps, whatever. A guy in a business suit is making a statement as well. I love the diversity; your mileage may vary.

252 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 4:58:19pm

re: #250 Alouette

In that case you can put the "goth emo" at the top of the list.

That's 'Sister Mary Emo' to you.

253 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:00:32pm

re: #236 Obdicut

Governor. It's in the state court system. The most Obama could do would be politely ask the Supreme Court to hear an appeal, but it's their decision.

Right? Now I'm unsure. Anyone know for sure?

Last I heard, it's on hold pending a decision. Killing when one doesn't need to makes us a more primitive society, like Texas, than we need to be. Just throwing away the key works fine for me.

254 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:01:56pm

re: #250 Alouette

In that case you can put the "goth emo" at the top of the list.

Sure. I have no problem with that. Thanks for the example.

255 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:03:13pm

Okay, I'm out. G'nite to whoever's still here/watching.

256 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:04:26pm

re: #251 CuriousLurker

There's nothing wrong with making a statement about being different, IMO. Some people wear cowboy hats & boots, some dress goth or punk, Sikhs wear turbans, Indian women Saris, African women brightly colored dresses and head wraps, whatever. A guy in a business suit is making a statement as well. I love the diversity; your mileage may vary.

There is a difference between making an individualist statement and one that says one is submersed in a group statement.

257 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:09:14pm

re: #256 Naso Tang

There is a difference between making an individualist statement and one that says one is submersed in a group statement.

So none of the people I mentioned are making a statement about being part of a group? Seem to me they all are, it's just that some of the groups are religious, some are cultural, etc. A businessman in a suit isn't making an individualist statement, not by a long shot—he's making a statement about which group he belongs to. Is it only a problem when people do it because of religion?

258 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:20:40pm

re: #257 CuriousLurker

Don't bother answering. Whatever, I'm out.

259 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:21:00pm

re: #247 Naso Tang

Of course the alternative statement in some neighborhoods is; "look at me, I'm just as different from all those others in the next street as you are".

Some neighborhoods is right. Sounds like the business card scene from American Psycho.

Youtube Video
260 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:22:10pm

re: #232 Obdicut

Oh, and if you include Europe, there's a lot more tolerance for full nudism, including genitalia. In Germany there's tons of total public nudity, swimming in streams and rivers and the like. Lots of full nudity in Scandinavia. A lot more tolerance for nudity in Europe than in the US, in general.

Degenerates!

Very French!!

261 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:24:39pm

re: #257 CuriousLurker

I didn't say a problem necessarily. Most of those you list are making a fashion statement corresponding to common standards, including the goths, or the hippies of my youth (what goes around comes around). However they will all either grow out of it or change as society changes. Those who wear the uniform of a faith don't do that. They are not trying to impress or make an impression of some sort, they are saying "I am showing how I am different from you, always".

262 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:25:26pm

re: #258 CuriousLurker

Don't bother answering. Whatever, I'm out.

Too late.

263 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:30:08pm

re: #261 Naso Tang

They are not trying to impress or make an impression of some sort, they are saying "I am showing how I am different from you, always".

That's often the perception about religious dress by outsiders. But could it also be, "dressing this way reminds me of who I am and where I come from" and not necessarily in relation to others? Some of both? Hard to say.

264 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:47:05pm

re: #263 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's often the perception about religious dress by outsiders. But could it also be, "dressing this way reminds me of who I am and where I come from" and not necessarily in relation to others? Some of both? Hard to say.

That is partly true I am sure, but doesn't the very statement also say "who I am requires me to show my difference from others"?

265 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 5:58:33pm

re: #261 Naso Tang

I didn't say a problem necessarily. Most of those you list are making a fashion statement corresponding to common standards, including the goths, or the hippies of my youth (what goes around comes around). However they will all either grow out of it or change as society changes. Those who wear the uniform of a faith don't do that. They are not trying to impress or make an impression of some sort, they are saying "I am showing how I am different from you, always".

Corporations have a "business attire" dress code that is every bit as rigid as a religious dress code.

266 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 6:32:24pm

re: #261 Naso Tang

Not every person will grow out of it or change as society changes. OCSP got it right. The primary reason is for oneself, and I'm way too tired to go into the specifics of that tonight. It's also about belonging to a group, sure, but not in the way some people seem to perceive it.

I've read newspaper articles (and personally experienced situations) where people bristle because, for whatever reason, they seem to interpret it as primarily an I'm-better-than-you rebuke. I find that really bizarre. I find it equally bizarre that the feelings of hostility seem to largely be directed at women who choose religiously modest dress (though I'm sure some men experience it too).

It's not as if a Muslim or Jewish or Amish woman wakes up in the morning and says to herself, "I'm going to cover up and go out there and show all those effing secular heathens how much more righteous & modest I am than them!" To have such an arrogant attitude would completely nullify any spiritual benefits of trying to be modesty since arrogance its very antithesis. It's nonsensical, therefore I suspect it has much more to do with the seer than the seen.

But whatever, I'm not sure what the point of this discussion is. You're an atheist and you've made it clear on several occasions that you dislike religion. Fine, I don't question you about it or urge you to change. I'm a Muslim and I'm happy with my religion and my dress, yet that seems to annoy or puzzle you and I'm not sure why.

We live in America where everyone is free to live as he or she pleases as long as no laws are being broken, so I really don't understand why we have to keep rehashing the subject when neither one of us is going to change the other's mind. I'm not interested in changing you mind or even particularly curious about why you're an atheist. I prefer to just live and let live.

Let me not be "too late" in saying this time that I'm going to leave now. I don't really have anything else to add, so I won't be coming back to this thread.

267 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 6:34:06pm

re: #265 Alouette

Corporations have a "business attire" dress code that is every bit as rigid as a religious dress code.

Please. That changes with fashion, although not as whimsically as the street does; there is no deity inspired dogma requiring to show one's difference although I admit there are some that take uniforms to something of an extreme; but all they need is a recession and chapter 11, and poof...

268 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 6:53:52pm

re: #266 CuriousLurker

We live in America where everyone is free to live as he or she pleases as long as no laws are being broken, so I really don't understand why we have to keep rehashing the subject when neither one of us is going to change the other's mind.

I don't think you really mean to say nothing should be discussed except if one believes in advance that the other's mind can be changed, do you?

I'm not interested in changing you mind or even particularly curious about why you're an atheist. I prefer to just live and let live.

I'm disappointed that you are not even curious as to why others have a different perspective than you do. Honestly, that doesn't sound like what I have read from you.

I have never said I can't just let you live as you wish, but I am curious to understand, step by step, what it is that motivates someone as intelligent and literate as you to adopt (as opposed to inherit) a very ritually dogmatic system of belief. There are plenty of none Islamic examples of that, so don't take this as a targeted point, and it really has nothing to do with the general belief of a deity.

I really don't mean to broaden this to a general issue of religion, only the aspect discussed was my issue. Plenty of "believers" get dressed every morning without thinking about whether the clothes are acceptable to god. Only some do, and those who do seem to see it as a statement that can only be relevant according to how others see them. I thought religion was a matter of the heart and the soul, not fashion.

I'll subscribe to this if you peek later :)

269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 7:05:20pm

re: #264 Naso Tang

That is partly true I am sure, but doesn't the very statement also say "who I am requires me to show my difference from others"?

No. It says nothing about others, but much more about personal devotion. A guy with tefillin or a Zoroastrian who wears a Kusti...those things don't necessarily "show" to anyone, though others from one's in-groups might have ways of knowing that the out-group is completely unaware of.

I mean, in my world, tain't nobody's business if it does "show". But I know people in out-groups may not feel that way when they see someone ritually dressed, differently from them.

270 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 7:12:18pm

re: #138 sattv4u2

26!?!?!?

Hell,.,, I have things in my freezer older than that!

My freezer is older than that.

271 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Sep 21, 2011 7:24:07pm

As a life long resident of Maricopa county, you have no idea just how much I loathe this assclown.

Everything you heard about him is true X2, he has cost us nearly 50 million in lost lawsuits. He is a pig, his followers are cult like in their love.

272 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 5:35:55am

re: #269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No. It says nothing about others, but much more about personal devotion. A guy with tefillin or a Zoroastrian who wears a Kusti...those things don't necessarily "show" to anyone, though others from one's in-groups might have ways of knowing that the out-group is completely unaware of.

I mean, in my world, tain't nobody's business if it does "show". But I know people in out-groups may not feel that way when they see someone ritually dressed, differently from them.

Good morning.

The issue of proscribed dress originates, IMHO, not from personal devotion but on the one hand from a desire to "show" others of the same devotion that one belongs; this starting in what would have been fairly homogeneous societies.

On the other hand, it is a form of discipline and reduction of individualism within the dogma, which most organized religions require. Needless to say the controls are focused more on women than on men, although Wahhabists, for example, have fairly strict commandments for men's dress also, but not enforced.

My interest here has been more on why intelligent and individualist persons need to show this when living in a society where most persons they come in contact with do not wear the same uniform. It seems as if they want to fit in with the original social structure, even as they live in a different one.

A deity should be able to see past the clothing fashion when it comes to judgement.

273 CuriousLurker  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 8:53:08am

re: #268 Naso Tang

Okay, you win—I forgot to turn off my subscription to this thread. ;)

I don't think you really mean to say nothing should be discussed except if one believes in advance that the other's mind can be changed, do you?

Of course not, but I do believe that there must be some common ground shared between parties in order for a conversation to be mutually beneficial & satisfying.

I can and have had fruitful discussions about religion with some of the atheists here, but to be honest I struggle when it comes to having a conversation with you. Why? I don’t know. Maybe it’s me, maybe it’s you. Maybe it’s both or neither of us, but whatever the case we always seem to end up at loggerheads. I find that frustrating and unpleasant, which is why I try to avoid it.

I'm disappointed that you are not even curious as to why others have a different perspective than you do. Honestly, that doesn't sound like what I have read from you.

I didn’t say I wasn’t curious about why others have a different perspective, I said I wasn’t curious about why you personally are an atheist. You and most of the other atheists here have made it clear why you’ve chosen that path, so I just accept it. I’m sure some of you have interesting stories about how you arrived at your choice, but I don’t ask because opening the atheism vs. religion subject often ends up with people bashing each other and going away with hurt feelings. Again, that’s not something I find beneficial or satisfying.

I have never said I can't just let you live as you wish, but I am curious to understand, step by step, what it is that motivates someone as intelligent and literate as you to adopt (as opposed to inherit) a very ritually dogmatic system of belief.

Well, I could tell you step by step, but it’s very personal so I’m not going to. Even if I was inclined to do so, I doubt it would make any sense to you given your views on religion and how you interpret as believers' motivations. Your response #272 to OCSP only reinforces that.

Trying to understand a person's religious belief by approaching it with objective scientific detachment & facts is as futile as trying to approach the laws of physics or medicine through the subjective personal faith & spirituality. It makes no sense. I’m quite capable of holding my religious beliefs and at the same time understanding that they have a very specific purpose and need not be applied to everything; hence if I get sick I go see a doctor, I don’t try to pray it away, nor do I expect God to indicate to me who I should vote for in the next election. That I need to separate reason from faith and go back & forth across the threshold between the two as I go about my daily life doesn’t result in some sort of paralyzing cognitive dissonance. As a matter of fact, it seems quite obvious.

Plenty of "believers" get dressed every morning without thinking about whether the clothes are acceptable to god...I thought religion was a matter of the heart and the soul, not fashion.

Religion is a matter of the heart & soul, but the hearts & souls of believers are encased in flesh and live in a material world which has its own set of rules & requirements, therefore both aspects of existence need to be addressed. I can’t speak for others, but dressing a certain way is less about what is or isn’t acceptable to God than it is about learning something about oneself by doing so. I've learned quite a bit, not only about my own ego, but also about others' reactions to and assumptions about me based solely my external appearance.

I have a lot of work on my desk and I don't want to fall behind, so any further discussion will have to wait for another time.

274 Achilles Tang  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:45:27am

re: #273 CuriousLurker

I can’t speak for others, but dressing a certain way is less about what is or isn’t acceptable to God than it is about learning something about oneself by doing so.

Thank you for the reply. I only quote the above, because I can accept that self discipline in any form, regardless how productive it may or may not appear to another can have a valid psychological benefit. However I temper this with the thought that you are probably not the most representative of the people I was generalizing about.

As to your comments about atheism. I have not here, nor possibly anywhere on this forum made specific arguments against the existence of a god beyond the critiques of the most outrageous claims which you will probably share.

I have no desire to argue against someone's belief, unless they invite it out of curiosity (and may have their own doubts) and I agree with you that this is usually not something ends well if it not a mutually invited discussion.

If you haven't turned off your subscription I accept your desire to, perhaps, continue this another time.

Cheers

275 CuriousLurker  Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:13:44am

re: #274 Naso Tang

Thank you for the reply.

You're welcome.

As to your comments about atheism. I have not here, nor possibly anywhere on this forum made specific arguments against the existence of a god beyond the critiques of the most outrageous claims which you will probably share.

In that case, I apologize for making incorrect assumptions.

If you haven't turned off your subscription I accept your desire to, perhaps, continue this another time.

Cheers

You've got yourself a deal.

Cheers. ;o)


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