Debunking the Right-Wing Obama/CFC/Inhaler Ban Nontroversy

Christopher Horner and Big Government get it wrong again.
Wingnuts • Views: 43,716

Recently, Christopher Horner at the far-right American blog, Big Government, blogged that the FDA ban on asthma medication containing CFCs was the result of “Obama’s FDA.” Some of which he writes in Breathless: FDA Bans Asthma Medication:

Then, as no Leftist idea is complete without a dash of self-contradicting demagoguery, see the poster below sent to me from someone within EPA. Obama’s left hand is at the same time invoking the same kids the far-left hand is endangering. See the young lady with a less effective inhaler, the kind that Obama and his EPA promiscuously and dishonestly insist are increasingly needed thanks to pollution they courageously battle in the face of others less sensitive to the needs of asthmatics. Really.

Polar bears. Asthmatic kids. Seniors in a wheelchair near a dock or a cliff just begging to be pushed off by some political opponent. All mere props to these people in their headlong rush to bow and scrape before the crowd of statists, anti-technology green movement and other winners that constitute the modern political Left. But, hey. Think of the children.

The above of course may leave you breathless but do continue.

After conducting some research which took me all of 5 minutes it was revealed that this was not an act secretly concocted by the Obama administration but in fact one created during the Bush White House years and finalized in November of 2008:

Use of Ozone-Depleting Substances; Removal of Essential-Use Designation (Epinephrine)

A Rule by the Food and Drug Administration on 11/19/2008

Summary

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), after consultation with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), is amending FDA’s regulation on the use of ozone-depleting substances (ODSs) in self-pressurized containers to remove the essential-use designation for epinephrine used in oral pressurized metered-dose inhalers (MDIs). The Clean Air Act requires FDA, in consultation with the EPA, to determine whether an FDA-regulated product that releases an ODS is an essential use of the ODS. FDA has concluded that there are no substantial technical barriers to formulating epinephrine as a product that does not release ODSs, and therefore epinephrine would no longer be an essential use of ODSs as of December 31, 2011. Epinephrine MDIs containing an ODS cannot be marketed after this date.

The above indicates the final cut-off date of December 31, 2011. Immediately we find that the notion that this ban was created by Obama alone has been debunked.

The FDA also has a page titled Epinephrine CFC Metered-dose Inhalers - Questions and Answers where we can find a link to the origin of these bans, Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer. A quick visit to Wiki for Montreal Protocol and it’s confirmation reveals the following:

As of September 16, 2009, all countries in the United Nations, the Cook Islands, Holy See, Niue and the supranational European Union have ratified the original Montreal Protocol (see external link below), Timor-Leste being the last country to ratify the agreement, bringing the total to 196. Fewer countries have ratified each consecutive amendment. Only 167 countries have ratified the Beijing Amendment.

In the United States, the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 (P.L. 101-549) contain provisions for implementing the Montreal Protocol, as well as explicit, separate authority for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency‎ to regulate ozone depleting chemicals.

Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher signed the protocol in 1987.

That’s right folks. Ronald Wilson Reagan endorsed the Montreal Protocol to the US Senate that set the wheel in motion that would lead to the banning of all CFC containing products including the inhalers mentioned by Big Government. The letter from Ronald Reagan reads:

President Reagan on Montreal Protocol Ratification

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
December 21, 1987

To the Senate of the United States:

I transmit herewith, for the advice and consent of the Senate to ratification, the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, done at Montreal on September 16, 1987. The report of the Department of State is also enclosed for the information of the Senate.

The Montreal Protocol provides for internationally coordinated control of ozone-depleting substances in order to protect public health and the environment from potential adverse effects of depletion of stratospheric ozone. The Protocol was negotiated under the auspices of the United Nations Environment Program, pursuant to the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer, which was ratified by the United States in August 1986.

In this historic agreement, the international community undertakes cooperative measures to protect a vital global resource. The United States played a leading role in the negotiation of the Protocol. United States ratification is necessary for entry into force and effective implementation of the Protocol. Early ratification by the United States will encourage similar action by other nations whose participation is also essential.

I recommend that the Senate give early and favorable consideration to the Protocol and give its advice and consent to ratification.

Ronald Reagan
The White House
December 21, 1987

To conclude, the chronology of this ban begins with President Reagan who signed off approvingly of the Montreal Protocol which led to the FDA decision under the oversight of President Bush which led to the final ban of CFC containing inhalers while President Obama was in the White House. The father of this short trail in FDA and EPA regulation is however Ronald Wilson Reagan having signed the above quoted letter.

The final conclusion of course is that Big Government and Christopher Horner are utterly wrong in this matter.

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45 comments
1 blueraven  Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:51:38pm

Awesome research as usual Gus!

Of course those rwnj don't really give a flyin you-know-what about the truth.
They're preaching to the dumbass choir, and they know it.

Thanks for setting the record straight!

2 lawhawk  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:29:15am

Yes, the wheels were set in motion by Reagan, the inhaler protocols were finalized under Bush 43, and will be implemented under Obama.

To the wingnuts, only the latter matters. Everything else is prehistory or non-history and something to ignore.

Fact is that the CFCs in the inhalers were part of an exception to the general phase-out of CFCs under the Montreal Protocol. Other inhalers have shifted to other propellants instead of the CFCs, but Primatene is the last remaining such CFC-based inhaler. I would rather have seen an alternative prescription-free inhaler come on the market to replace Primatene, but that hasn't happened. It's all the more reason for folks who have asthma to get checked by doctors to make sure that they're up to date - have the proper inhalers and meds, and not need to rely on Primatene.

3 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:54:38am

Great page, gus. I hope it makes the front page!

4 KingKenrod  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:17:37am

I notice the final FDA ruling came out during Bush's lame duck period after Obama was elected - no doubt because the decision is wildly unpopular and totally unnecessary. It's obviously a parting gift to drug companies that make prescription inhalers.

Obama could simply delay the rule's implementation until there is a safe OTC inhaler available (they are undergoing FDA trials now), but expecting sensible decisions from the dopes who run our government is too much to ask. It's poor people who rely on those cheap inhalers, and they will now have to get more expensive prescription inhalers, largely subsidized by taxpayers.

Politically, Obama would be smart to delay the rule's implementation until after the election. When people start showing up in ER's and dropping dead from asthma attacks in 2012 because they don't have an emergency inhaler, Obama's going to take the blame, right or wrong.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:49:52am

Oh, goodie. A fresh new thread.

6 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:54:34am

re: #2 lawhawk

To the wingnuts, only the latter matters. Everything else is prehistory or non-history and something to ignore.

Oceana has always been at war with Eurasia.

7 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:54:49am

Christopher Horner and Big Government get it wrong again.

Has Big Government ever got it right?

8 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:02:16pm

Irony meter shattered with a mindless RWNJ Drone typing

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

9 jaunte  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:08:32pm

"All mere props to these people in their headlong rush to bow and scrape before the crowd of statists, anti-technology green movement and other winners that constitute the modern political Left."

Cliché salad, now with extra indignant flying spittle, no extra charge.

10 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:13:19pm

re: #4 KingKenrod

no doubt because the decision is wildly unpopular and totally unnecessary. It's obviously a parting gift to drug companies that make prescription inhalers.

How is it 'obviously' that, and not a fulfillment of the Montreal agreement?

Obama could simply delay the rule's implementation until there is a safe OTC inhaler available (they are undergoing FDA trials now), but expecting sensible decisions from the dopes who run our government is too much to ask.

Why do you place the responsibility on him, and not on companies who knew this rule was going into effect and haven't moved quickly enough to replace the inhalers?

It's poor people who rely on those cheap inhalers, and they will now have to get more expensive prescription inhalers, largely subsidized by taxpayers.

Poor people are also taxpayers, jackass. Those aren't two categories. God I hate that meme.

Politically, Obama would be smart to delay the rule's implementation until after the election. When people start showing up in ER's and dropping dead from asthma attacks in 2012 because they don't have an emergency inhaler, Obama's going to take the blame, right or wrong.

They will if enough people believe the misinformation. They won't if enough people get informed on the topic.

11 Charleston Chew  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:23:11pm

re: #4 KingKenrod

I notice the final FDA ruling came out during Bush's lame duck period after Obama was elected - no doubt because the decision is wildly unpopular and totally unnecessary. It's obviously a parting gift to drug companies that make prescription inhalers.

Obama could simply delay the rule's implementation until there is a safe OTC inhaler available (they are undergoing FDA trials now), but expecting sensible decisions from the dopes who run our government is too much to ask. It's poor people who rely on those cheap inhalers, and they will now have to get more expensive prescription inhalers, largely subsidized by taxpayers.

Politically, Obama would be smart to delay the rule's implementation until after the election. When people start showing up in ER's and dropping dead from asthma attacks in 2012 because they don't have an emergency inhaler, Obama's going to take the blame, right or wrong.

Primatine Mist, the over the counter inhaler that's being discontinued, is being reformulated into a non-CFC version that will be available pending FDA approval. Of course, the haters don't want you to know about that part.

[Link: www.primatene.com...]

As a not-rich person with asthma whose used this product I can say it's not that big of a deal. If you have life-threatening asthma, you should already be on a prescription inhaler.

This is just a repeat of anytime an ingredient is banned. Industry or politicians act like it's the end of the world, and then a new version of the product comes out and everyone forgets all about it.

Remember when Oreos couldn't possible exist without tran-fats? And then, "Hey look Oreos without trans fat."

12 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:24:01pm

Have seen this nonsense reference several times on the web in the last few days, thanks for shedding some light. Albuterol has been available as a generic for many years now and is healthier AND more effective than the totally outdated active ingredient in Primatine Mist anyway.

13 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:27:06pm

Thanks to Gus for checking this out. The wingnuts have just worn out the fact checkers after years of one bogus story after the other. I'm glad people are still looking into this stuff.

14 KingKenrod  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:27:11pm

re: #10 Obdicut

How is it 'obviously' that, and not a fulfillment of the Montreal agreement?

Lawhawk already pointed out that inhalers aren't covered by Montreal as an essential use device. I believe him. I also believe the FDA can give more time to phase out.

Why do you place the responsibility on him, and not on companies who knew this rule was going into effect and haven't moved quickly enough to replace the inhalers?

Did I say the drug companies were blameless? It's obvious what the drug companies are doing, and Obama is the only one who can stop them. He has chosen not to.

Poor people are also taxpayers, jackass. Those aren't two categories. God I hate that meme.

No need for name calling. Who said poor people don't pay taxes? They do, and now part of the taxes they pay will wasted on expensive prescription inhalers instead of something else.

15 Charleston Chew  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:28:04pm

re: #7 Iwouldprefernotto

Christopher Horner and Big Government get it wrong again.

Has Big Government ever got it right?

Dog bites man.

16 DeepBlue  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:30:28pm

The Republicans don't care about being truthful or consistent. They believe that they are at war... with Iraq, Afghanistan, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Muslims, secularists, homosexuals, democrats, the poor, the president, women, people without jobs, government, environmentalists, yankees, city-dwellers, activist judges, immigrants, nature, scientists, EPA, NEA, NPR, Acorn, the French, Mexico, anyone who they don't agree with, single mothers, people who support gun laws, teachers, women's health care providers. They believe that 'at war, the ends justify any means'.

17 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:37:33pm

re: #16 DeepBlue

The Republicans don't care about being truthful or consistent. They believe that they are at war... with Iraq, Afghanistan, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Muslims, secularists, homosexuals, democrats, the poor, the president, women, people without jobs, government, environmentalists, yankees, city-dwellers, activist judges, immigrants, nature, scientists, EPA, NEA, NPR, Acorn, the French, Mexico, anyone who they don't agree with, single mothers, people who support gun laws, teachers, women's health care providers. They believe that 'at war, the ends justify any means'.

You just reminded me what that little heart button is for.

18 Charleston Chew  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:38:51pm

re: #14 KingKenrod

Thanks for the link but now I'm totally confused. So the idea is to extend patents on expensive name-brand inhalers to keep generics out of the market?

Anyway, I still think that anyone who has life-threatening asthma should be on a prescription inhaler.

19 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:39:40pm

re: #18 Charleston Chew

Thanks for the link but now I'm totally confused. So the idea is to extend patents on expensive name-brand inhalers to keep generics out of the market?

Anyway, I still think that anyone who has life-threatening asthma should be on a prescription inhaler.

Totally ignorant here. There are non-prescription inhalers?

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:40:42pm

re: #19 EmmmieG

Totally ignorant here. There are non-prescription inhalers?

Nebbermind. Read an actual article and got my answer.

(As you can tell, nobody in my family has asthma.)

21 bluewater  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:43:59pm

Speaking as a specialist in children's lung disease:

-all the useful inhalers are available in non-CFC form
-the non-CFC propellant (HFA) actually has better pulmonary deposition than the CFC inhalers so it's an improvement for my patients
-Epinephrine is not a good choice for rescue inhaler, frankly I feel it's dangerous and should be off the market
-And anyways, we knew this was coming long before we ever heard of Barack Obama, all the inhalers I prescribe dropped the CFC several years ago

22 Charleston Chew  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:44:11pm

re: #16 DeepBlue

The Republicans don't care about being truthful or consistent. They believe that they are at war... with Iraq, Afghanistan, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Muslims, secularists, homosexuals, democrats, the poor, the president, women, people without jobs, government, environmentalists, yankees, city-dwellers, activist judges, immigrants, nature, scientists, EPA, NEA, NPR, Acorn, the French, Mexico, anyone who they don't agree with, single mothers, people who support gun laws, teachers, women's health care providers. They believe that 'at war, the ends justify any means'.

Or as Chris Hedges put it -- War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning.

23 Charleston Chew  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:48:11pm

re: #19 EmmmieG

Totally ignorant here. There are non-prescription inhalers?

Primatine Mist is the only OTC inhaler I've ever seen.

I've used it before for my exercised-induced asthma, which just mean if I go for a run, my lungs inflame and I hack and wheeze for the next 4 hours.

My grandpa used it for breathing problems due to allergies.

In both cases, not life-threatening.

24 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:51:21pm

re: #14 KingKenrod

Did I say the drug companies were blameless? It's obvious what the drug companies are doing, and Obama is the only one who can stop them. He has chosen not to.

Really? Obama is the only one? So the House or the Senate couldn't do anything about this? The companies themselves couldn't do anything about it? Their shareholders couldn't do anything about it? Somehow the president is the only one who could possibly affect this?

No need for name calling. Who said poor people don't pay taxes? They do, and now part of the taxes they pay will wasted on expensive prescription inhalers instead of something else.

Every time you say "Poor people use this, taxpayers foot the bill", you are, whether you know it or not, creating the image of two groups: taxpayers and poor people. This is a divide that many, many lobbying groups have worked hard to put into people's minds. This is what the 50% of people don't pay taxes lie is about. It really, really needs to stop.

25 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:52:53pm

created during the Bush White House years

doesn't matter. all efforts to improve things are against god and socialist

26 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:57:33pm

Really, one of the main lessons from this is that drug companies will take every advantage of every small change to their products to increase their patent life, in order to profit more.

They will reformulate a medication in a small, relatively insignificant way, solely because it allows them to patent it anew.

In this case, they're happy that they get to issue new patents due to a new 'formulation' based on different propellants, because it takes away the ability of generics to compete.

That problem is not one that was created by Obama. That is an inherent problem in the way we have patents for drug companies set up, and the scale of costs of R&D at drug companies. It is far more profitable for a drug company to tweak an old formula slightly than it is for them to create a new one. It is also far more profitable for them to research and sell a drug like Viagra than it is drugs that cure life-threatening diseases.

27 justaminute  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 12:57:41pm

I think since they have done everything they could to block the President and sometimes to successfully, they are having a hard time in finding things to attack him on.

28 jaunte  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:01:08pm

re: #24 Obdicut

Every time you say "Poor people use this, taxpayers foot the bill", you are, whether you know it or not, creating the image of two groups: taxpayers and poor people. This is a divide that many, many lobbying groups have worked hard to put into people's minds. This is what the 50% of people don't pay taxes lie is about. It really, really needs to stop.

Business taxes are simply factored into the price of a product or service, so everyone (including the majority of people who are not rich) who buys stuff, pay taxes. It seems obvious, but it seems to need repeating.

29 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:05:12pm

re: #28 jaunte

Yes and no. The price of a product is not set at production cost + X, it's set by what the market will bear.

So if a company has to pay $5 taxes on something they sell for $200, or $10 taxes, it is unlikely to affect the price. The price is set by the curve demonstrating the largest number of people buying for the highest price.

Remember recently when the FAA was shuttered briefly, and airline prices didn't have to pay taxes on tickets? The prices didn't drop.

Companies do not just simply pass along the price of the tax; they already set their prices at what they think is the optimum level.

30 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:13:58pm

re: #29 Obdicut

Yes and no. The price of a product is not set at production cost + X, it's set by what the market will bear.

So if a company has to pay $5 taxes on something they sell for $200, or $10 taxes, it is unlikely to affect the price. The price is set by the curve demonstrating the largest number of people buying for the highest price.

Remember recently when the FAA was shuttered briefly, and airline prices didn't have to pay taxes on tickets? The prices didn't drop.

Companies do not just simply pass along the price of the tax; they already set their prices at what they think is the optimum level.

i've often heard that companies "will pass along the increase in taxes to consumers so you're really paying the tax anyway"

of course any business that automatically passed on all cost increases "to the consumer" would quickly lose one of its best competitive advantages and price itself out of the market

you can make a profit on margin but it's often better to do it on volume. i've gone through a lot of anxiety myself worrying whether i'm being too greedy with prices i've set for my products and cutting down my business, or not asking enough and giving the impression that's it's not worth more...

31 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:17:45pm

re: #30 engineer dog

Well, for those who haven't been involved in it, it does seem to make sense that you'd price at production costs + X. It makes a certain amount of sense. And it's true that some companies do do that, simply because figuring out what the market will bear is too difficult, or the market is volatile, or new. But in general, it's what the market will bear.

In the case of asthma inhalers, anyone who was using an over-the-counter one to deal with critical, life-threatening asthma was already a, well, misuser of the medication. They should be on a prescription one. Many poor people aren't, because a for-profit health insurance system has absolutely no interest in someone who is both poor and chronically sick.

That is also not a problem with Obama; that is a problem with how we deliver health care and health insurance in this country.

32 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:18:00pm

Since when has being completely and utterly wrong mattered to the wingnuts? They've got a black man in the White House to deal with.

33 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:33:47pm

re: #28 jaunte

Business taxes are simply factored into the price of a product or service, so everyone (including the majority of people who are not rich) who buys stuff, pay taxes. It seems obvious, but it seems to need repeating.

Along those lines, people should be aware that everyone pays credit card fees. Another reason the banks are not necessarily our friends.

34 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:38:20pm

re: #30 engineer dog

i've often heard that companies "will pass along the increase in taxes to consumers so you're really paying the tax anyway"

my apologies, i didn't mean to unduly cast aspersions, but most companies sell products that are more or less commoditized, that is, the major difference between the same product as available from different companies is price. in this market, "passing along tax increases" is not a feasible business strategy

drug companies are better than many other types of business at not being commoditized - they can afford to spend billions developing new drugs that they can hold the patent on for a while, not to mention the legal requirement that the medicare drug benefit pay them the price they ask without negotiation

once the patent expires, any particular drug will become commoditized as soon as the generic version is available

35 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:47:13pm

OT-ish. Watching the 'Bama-Arkansas game. A commercial just pitted Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana and Florida beaches in a tourism contest. Brought to you by BP.

(Recent reports show oil from last year's spill is still turning up after storms.)

[Link: www.nola.com...]

36 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:52:19pm

re: #35 Decatur Deb

OT-ish. Watching the 'Bama-Arkansas game. A commercial just pitted Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana and Florida beaches in a tourism contest. Brought to you by BP.

(Recent reports show oil from last year's spill is still turning up after storms.)

[Link: www.nola.com...]

I wonder if paying for those ads for the tourism bureaus wasn't part of BP's reparations to the region

37 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:54:39pm

re: #36 sattv4u2

I wonder if paying for those ads for the tourism bureaus wasn't part of BP's reparations to the region

Highly likely--or someone's not doing their job.

38 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:01:26pm

re: #33 wrenchwench

Along those lines, people should be aware that everyone pays credit card fees. Another reason the banks are not necessarily our friends.

This prompts me to ask here if anyone is a paying subscriber to Skype?

I am currently having an exchange with Skype that would be funny if it wasn't pitiful (maybe I'll end up publishing it).

Simply, my CC with Citi Bank is being charged a 3% foreign exchange fee every time Skype bills me in US $. That is, Citi Bank is charging me, not Skype, and I believe that is normal now for foreign billings.

I find that this is because Skype are charging me from Singapore (I signed up in the USA). I don't want Skype to bill me from Singapore.

The customer service people at Skype are absolute idiots. I tell them the same thing over and over and they keep asking me for proof that they are overcharging me.

We will see where this goes.

39 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:03:20pm

re: #38 Naso Tang

Call Debbie in Siberia--he'll square it away.

40 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:13:44pm

re: #39 Decatur Deb

Call Debbie in Siberia--he'll square it away.

That was Peggy, but he's now working for Skype

41 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:18:39pm

re: #40 Naso Tang

That was Peggy, but he's now working for Skype

42 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:31:20pm

Outrageous!

The death panels are the reparations!!!

/dumb, stupid riwghtwing bigot

43 RanchTooth  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:07:30am

A great quote from the NYT Op-Ed of Rick Perry:

In the high school version of the 2008 Republican primary contest, Romney was regarded by John McCain and other contenders as the loathed hall monitor, prissy and hypocritical. It’s not that he has gotten so much more popular or less plastic, although he has improved his performance. It’s just that his rivals keep getting more implausible.

The only reason Perry got in the race in the first place was that Republicans yearned for an alternative to Romney. (This weekend, they were drunk-texting Chris Christie.) But for now, Perry is proving to be Romney’s best asset.

44 grseidel  Mon, Sep 26, 2011 7:14:48pm

I have asthma, and CFC based inhalers have been banned before Obama took office, how this is an issue is beyond me. What is a tragedy in my mind, is that when drug companies met the new requirements it had a new propellent, which meant inhalers were no longer considered a "generic". Inhalers went from $5 to $20 overnight... Well, only in the good old USA. Overseas they stayed inexpensive. How this became "Obama's" issue is beyond me...

45 Gus  Mon, Sep 26, 2011 7:32:53pm

Speaking of irony meter. Mr. Horner that authored the sloppy, hysterical drivel at Big Government is an attorney. Imagine having this bonehead as your defense attorney or any other legal matter. Probably went straight from college into consulting without ever practicing law. Another graduate of the University of Jack Daniels.


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