The Republican Modus Tollens - Logic, Facts, and Policies

‘The way that denies by denying’
Opinion • Views: 49,256

www.blogherenow.net

Republican leaders have become fond of denying well-supported facts in the last few years, including such well-confirmed phenomena as (at least partly human-induced) climate change, the proven safety of vaccines, and of course evolutionary theory. What seems to be guiding them, at least unconsciously, is (roughly) the following form of argument, known to logicians as modus tollens:

  1. If P then Q
  2. Not-Q
  3. So Not-P

This pattern of reasoning is technically valid. That is, if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true. So criticizing any argument of this form typically involves arguing that at least one of the premises is false.

For instance, here’s the Republican modus tollens argument against climate change:

  1. If climate change is occurring, then we should regulate CO2.
  2. We shouldn’t regulate CO2.
  3. So climate change isn’t actually occurring.

Or, similarly, in the case of the vaccine Michele Bachmann doesn’t like:

  1. If the HPV vaccine is safe, then we should encourage its use.
  2. We shouldn’t encourage its use.
  3. So the HPV vaccine is not safe.

Or, finally:

  1. If evolutionary theory is true, then the biblical story of creation should be denied.
  2. The biblical story of creation should not be denied.
  3. So evolutionary theory is not true.

Notice that in each of these arguments, P is a matter of well-confirmed scientific theory (there are no absolutely proven theories, of course - scientific methodology rules out such dogmatic certainty), while Q is a matter of social or political policy (or, in the last argument, religious faith). This makes the conditional (“If…then…”) premises extremely problematic (even if you agree with them), because they too simplistically suggest that facts logically entail policies, rather than simply bear on them. Thanks to this oversimplification, the arguer may think that it is necessary to deny a well-supported fact in order to avoid implementing a policy or contradicting a tenet of faith. This is psychologically understandable, but irrational and unnecessary. Policy recommendations and tenets of faith can certainly be debated on their own practical (or theological) merits. We can also debate the degree to which particular facts should bear on particular policies. But factual statements should stand or fall according to the evidence for or against them, not according to the policies to which they might lead or the theological issues they may raise.

“Let your moral argument stand on its own, and let the facts stand on their own.”For instance, at the risk of incurring some cognitive dissonance, Republicans could certainly continue to oppose regulating CO2 while accepting that climate change is occurring. After all, they could argue that despite the negative environmental effects of climate change, the negative economic effects of regulating CO2 would be even worse. This might well be false, but asserting it would not be as irrational as denying climate change merely for economic policy reasons. The same sort of criticism applies to the second argument. There is no need to deny a vaccine’s proven safety record merely because you want to discourage its use for, say, moral reasons. Let your moral argument stand on its own, and let the facts stand on their own. As for the third argument, many Christian theologians - both Catholic and Protestant - deny the first premise, since they argue that the book of Genesis was never meant to be a scientific description of how people came to exist. Atheists and agnostics might prefer to deny the second premise, but what is clear is that the evidence for evolution should stand (or fall) on its own.

What is truly disturbing is that so many Republican presidential candidates don’t seem to understand such obvious points, or, if they do, ignore them for the sake of influencing the gullible.

Jump to bottom

735 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:42:05pm

The smarter GOP politicians probably see the illogicality of their anti-science positions, and are cynically pandering to the unwashed right wing masses.

But I think some of the current crop of clowns really are as dim as they portray on television. Perry, Bachmann, Santorum -- these aren't anyone's idea of intellectuals.

The real problem is that such a large portion of the American public doesn't understand the simple logic you outlined, and is in reactionary/rejection mode on issues like climate change -- and it's largely because of well-funded propaganda campaigns by powerful corporations, who have their own logic based solely on profitability.

2 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:56:25pm

Thanks for making my brain hurt.

3 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:57:37pm

re: #1 Charles

The smarter GOP politicians probably see the illogicality of their anti-science positions, and are cynically pandering to the unwashed right wing masses.

That's probably two or three out of ten. This may sound crass, cynical, or petty, but.... the rest are just not that smart.

They don't merely speak in sound bytes, they think in sound bytes.

4 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:58:27pm

avram, i would give you more updings for this post if i could

5 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 1:59:00pm

SCIENCE!

6 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:00:43pm

re: #5 albusteve

SCIENCE!

Have your nerves calmed down yet?

7 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:03:08pm

re: #6 sattv4u2

Have your nerves calmed down yet?

oh yeah...that lasted about 30min...I've seen public violence before, but never two armed men fighting each other....that was a FIRST!

8 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:03:48pm

This helped me some.

Trying to fix bikes at the same time didn't.

9 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:05:17pm

This extends highly to their economic views as well. Many GOP arguments on economics go:

1. If the widening gap between hyperwealthy and the rest of society is a huge problem, and increases in taxation and targeted spending would address this, we should raise taxation on the wealthy.

2. We shouldn't raise taxation on the wealthy.

3. Therefore, the widening gap between the hyperwealthy and the rest of society is not a huge problem.

10 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:06:15pm

I presume Avram is Dr. Herzberg. If so, then Dr. Herzberg is a long-time Lizard with an impressive resume:

[Link: www.uwosh.edu...]
[Link: www.uwosh.edu...]

11 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:07:45pm

re: #9 Obdicut

This extends highly to their economic views as well. Many GOP arguments on economics go:

1. If the widening gap between hyperwealthy and the rest of society is a huge problem, and increases in taxation and targeted spending would address this, we should raise taxation on the wealthy.

2. We shouldn't raise taxation on the wealthy.

3. Therefore, the widening gap between the hyperwealthy and the rest of society is not a huge problem.

as for me, I don't think the House GOP gives two shits who pays what in taxes...I think they say and do whatever it takes to get elected, then re-elected...people can over think it, but the result is the same regardless

12 engineer cat  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:09:07pm

sigh...

BERKELEY -- A Facebook post announcing plans by a UC Berkeley Republican group to sell baked goods priced according to race, gender and ethnicity - "White/Caucasian" pastries for $2 and "Black/African American" pastries for 75 cents, for example - has drawn outrage on campus.

"I'm ashamed to know that I go to the same school with people who would say stuff like this," responded student Skyler Hogan-Van Sickle on Facebook. "I'm really trying to figure out how someone can be this hateful."

The campus Republicans, who expect to go forward with their "Increase Diversity Bake Sale" on Tuesday, say the event is meant to mock an effort by the student government to drum up support for SB185, a bill to let the University of California and the California State University consider ethnicity in student admissions. It's awaiting approval or veto by Gov. Jerry Brown.

"Our bake sale will be at the same time and location of a phone bank which will be making calls to urge Gov. Brown to sign the bill," posted six students who created the Facebook page. The purpose "is to offer another view to this policy of considering race in university admissions. The pricing structure of the baked goods is meant to be satirical."

13 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:09:09pm

re: #10 Sergey Romanov

Bertrand!

I remember that program. I think I might have come close to understanding it, long ago.

14 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:09:26pm

Modus tollens is sometimes confused with proof by contradiction or proof by contrapositive contraceptive. Evidence of absence applies modus tollens. A related valid form of argument is modus ponens.

I see!

If slutty, then abortion
no abortion
no slutty

15 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:10:51pm

re: #12 engineer dog

They just stole James O'Keefe college stunt (I'm not kidding).

16 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:11:33pm

re: #10 Sergey Romanov

I presume Avram is Dr. Herzberg. If so, then Dr. Herzberg is a long-time Lizard with an impressive resume:

[Link: www.uwosh.edu...]
[Link: www.uwosh.edu...]

Wow. He was an undergrad at Reed in in '76. I bet he was a stoner.

17 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:12:11pm

re: #12 engineer dog

sigh...

BERKELEY -- A Facebook post announcing plans by a UC Berkeley Republican group to sell baked goods priced according to race, gender and ethnicity - "White/Caucasian" pastries for $2 and "Black/African American" pastries for 75 cents, for example - has drawn outrage on campus.

"I'm ashamed to know that I go to the same school with people who would say stuff like this," responded student Skyler Hogan-Van Sickle on Facebook. "I'm really trying to figure out how someone can be this hateful."

The campus Republicans, who expect to go forward with their "Increase Diversity Bake Sale" on Tuesday, say the event is meant to mock an effort by the student government to drum up support for SB185, a bill to let the University of California and the California State University consider ethnicity in student admissions. It's awaiting approval or veto by Gov. Jerry Brown.

"Our bake sale will be at the same time and location of a phone bank which will be making calls to urge Gov. Brown to sign the bill," posted six students who created the Facebook page. The purpose "is to offer another view to this policy of considering race in university admissions. The pricing structure of the baked goods is meant to be satirical."

CRNC has been doing that juvenile crap for a couple years, and the similar "Compton Cookout". This is the world James O'Keefe and Ashley (B Girl) Todd spawned in.

18 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:13:22pm

re: #17 Decatur Deb

CRNC has been doing that juvenile crap for a couple years, and the simlar "Compton Cookout". This is the world James O'Keefe and Ashley (B Girl) Todd spawned in.

I question the source....sounds like a shit stirring prank

19 Idle Drifter  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:17:13pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

Off topic but your name was an answer on Jeopardy the other night.

20 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:17:34pm

re: #18 albusteve

I question the source...sounds like a shit stirring prank

Here's a report on their 2003 version:

[Link: www.deltabravo.net...]

Video of 2009:

21 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:17:54pm

re: #17 Decatur Deb

I'd be fine with not considering ethnicity in admissions, or in hiring. That'd be great.

Unfortunately, the reality is that people are far less likely to hire a person with a black-sounding name.

Even to the point where a white person who is a felon is more likely to be hired than a black man with a clean record.

[Link: www.jobbankusa.com...]

So given that the reality is that people do consider race, institutionally trying to correct in the opposite direction is kludgy, but fair.

I hope they also use poverty as a filter, but I assume they do.

22 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:18:37pm

re: #19 Idle Drifter

Off topic but your name was an answer on Jeopardy the other night.

Nice!

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:18:43pm

re: #18 albusteve

I question the source...sounds like a shit stirring prank

Figure it was put up on Facebook by someone who's, er, not a Young Republican?

Could be. Except students have, in fact, pulled crap like this in the past. The vicious stupidity of college racial politics has to be seen to be believed.

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:19:21pm

re: #21 Obdicut

I'd be fine with not considering ethnicity in admissions, or in hiring. That'd be great.

Unfortunately, the reality is that people are far less likely to hire a person with a black-sounding name.

[Link: www.jobbankusa.com...]

So given that the reality is that people do consider race, institutionally trying to correct in the opposite direction is kludgy, but fair.

I hope they also use poverty as a filter, but I assume they do.

They do, in a variety of ways.

25 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:19:22pm

re: #21 Obdicut

I'd be fine with not considering ethnicity in admissions, or in hiring. That'd be great.

Unfortunately, the reality is that people are far less likely to hire a person with a black-sounding name.

[Link: www.jobbankusa.com...]

So given that the reality is that people do consider race, institutionally trying to correct in the opposite direction is kludgy, but fair.

I hope they also use poverty as a filter, but I assume they do.

They're allowed--but they've kind of worn it out.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:19:53pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

Figure it was put up on Facebook by someone who's, er, not a Young Republican?

Could be. Except students have, in fact, pulled crap like this in the past. The vicious stupidity of college racial politics has to be seen to be believed.

And that last statement could serve as supporting data for 'it's a hoax' or 'it's not a hoax' both.

27 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:21:12pm

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

And that last statement could serve as supporting data for 'it's a hoax' or 'it's not a hoax' both.

Film at 20.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:21:20pm

re: #25 Decatur Deb

They're allowed--but they've kind of worn it out.

Actually, UC is not allowed, at this time.

(I'm doing some consulting work on college essays at the moment. Head full of training on this.)

29 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:22:10pm

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

The South-East Asian Cultural Society at UofC highly resembled South East Asia. War-torn, long, bitter resentments, and a general disagreement over what the term even meant.

30 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:22:52pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually, UC is not allowed, at this time.

(I'm doing some consulting work on college essays at the moment. Head full of training on this.)

Should be allowed and mocked, under the "Nazis Marching in Skokie" rule.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:23:24pm

re: #29 Obdicut

The South-East Asian Cultural Society at UofC highly resembled South East Asia. War-torn, long, bitter resentments, and a general disagreement over what the term even meant.

Matters pertaining to the Middle East are similarly realistic.

:(

32 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:25:11pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

Figure it was put up on Facebook by someone who's, er, not a Young Republican?

Could be. Except students have, in fact, pulled crap like this in the past. The vicious stupidity of college racial politics has to be seen to be believed.

I just give much cred to campus politics....half of those twits won't vote and the other half are consumed by AmIdol, pop politics...did I sweep them all away or are there more?

33 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:25:16pm

re: #21 Obdicut

Or to reframe this in the thread topic:

1. Since people tend to hire in part based on race, selectively discriminating against blacks and others, affirmative action and other means to address racial inequality should be used.

2. Affirmative action shouldn't be used.

3. People don't hire based in part on race.

It's a demonstrable truth, but many people will deny it up and down-- because they don't like the policies that are used to address it.

There are perfectly good arguments against affirmative action and quota systems. I'm sort of on the fence about it, and would rather see more effort spend on righting inequities before they reach the college or job-seeking level. But I would in no way ever deny that the problem actually exists.

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:30:14pm

Race was a permitted factor in UC admissions back when I was a lass. Most of my classmates were Asian, and this weighed heavily on their minds, since being Chinese was the kiss of death when it came to UC-of-your-choice acceptance.

35 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:33:53pm

re: #7 albusteve

oh yeah...that lasted about 30min...I've seen public violence before, but never two armed men fighting each other...that was a FIRST!

I do hope that cop got the rest of the day off.

36 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:34:45pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Race was a permitted factor in UC admissions back when I was a lass. Most of my classmates were Asian, and this weighed heavily on their minds, since being Chinese was the kiss of death when it came to UC-of-your-choice acceptance.

I was locked out of a promotion or two because my installation was hiring/promoting under race and gender consent decrees. Tough shit--I had career advantages of education and cultural fit. There's no good answer for our generation.

37 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:35:23pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Race was a permitted factor in UC admissions back when I was a lass. Most of my classmates were Asian, and this weighed heavily on their minds, since being Chinese was the kiss of death when it came to UC-of-your-choice acceptance.

the Chinese have a rich and colorful history in CA, most of it involving ugly bigotry and repression...those guys built the Union Pacific and Americans never forgave the Chinese for outworking our white boys 3-1 and still tolerated the abuse...without the Chinese, the Intercontinental Railroad (BO's term) would have taken years longer and untold millions more to build

38 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:36:32pm

re: #37 albusteve

the Chinese have a rich and colorful history in CA, most of it involving ugly bigotry and repression...those guys built the Union Pacific and Americans never forgave the Chinese for outworking our white boys 3-1 and still tolerated the abuse...without the Chinese, the Intercontinental Railroad (BO's term) would have taken years longer and untold millions more to build

It is ironic how the ethnic ghettos where they were essentially forced to live in major cities are now glorified as "centers of culture."

39 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:37:30pm

re: #35 EmmmieG

I do hope that cop got the rest of the day off.

tough job....the ABQ have learned the hard way that if you pull a gun they will instantly kill you

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:38:09pm

re: #38 laZardo

It is ironic how the ethnic ghettos where they were essentially forced to live in major cities are now glorified as "centers of culture."

Well, the history is pretty damn cool.

My NANOWRIMO novel this year is going to be set in San Francisco during the 1870s or 80s, and part of it is going to have to do with a famous incident in Chinatown.

41 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:38:56pm

re: #37 albusteve

You mean the Central Pacific, Steve. The CP was the one that hired the Chinese laborers, not the UP.

And the laborers on the Union Pacific were mostly Irish, who weren't really considered 'white' at the time, and also faced bigotry and repression.

42 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:39:12pm

re: #38 laZardo

It is ironic how the ethnic ghettos where they were essentially forced to live in major cities are now glorified as "centers of culture."

Such is one of the ironies of American history. The ghettoes were not a kindness, yet they simultaneously preserved the culture and identity of the group.

Life can be like that; that which is hard can be good for you.

Which is not saying that bigotry is correct.

43 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:39:30pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, the history is pretty damn cool.

My NANOWRIMO novel this year is going to be set in San Francisco during the 1870s or 80s, and part of it is going to have to do with a famous incident in Chinatown.

No fair thinking ahead!!

44 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:40:47pm

re: #41 Obdicut

You mean the Central Pacific, Steve. The CP was the one that hired the Chinese laborers, not the UP.

And the laborers on the Union Pacific were mostly Irish, who weren't really considered 'white' at the time, and also faced bigotry and repression.

yes, good eye....and just a year ago I read S Ambrose book about the rail road...my bad

45 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:41:20pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

back when I was a lass.

Has something changed !?!?

//

46 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:41:47pm

re: #35 EmmmieG

I do hope that cop got the rest of the day off.

with pay!

47 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:42:38pm

re: #41 Obdicut

You mean the Central Pacific, Steve. The CP was the one that hired the Chinese laborers, not the UP.

And the laborers on the Union Pacific were mostly Irish, who weren't really considered 'white' at the time, and also faced bigotry and repression.

and more...
after it was built, the barons sold off the federal land the RR ran through and made fortunes beyond belief....has anything really changed?

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:43:04pm

re: #42 EmmmieG

Such is one of the ironies of American history. The ghettoes were not a kindness, yet they simultaneously preserved the culture and identity of the group.

Life can be like that; that which is hard can be good for you.

Which is not saying that bigotry is correct.

There's a woman who does children's books about Chinese-American history in California, based on her own experience and that of her family.

Her mother was a little girl in 1906. After the quake, her father decided they needed to get to safety in the park quickly. Getting out was complicated by the fact that his wife and mother both had bound feet. He got a cart from somewhere that was big enough for them to both sit in, on the luggage, and he and his brother wheeled them out, with the little girl and their maid being in charge of clearing rubble out of the way.

The little girl had been born in the city, and never been out of Chinatown before. None of the women in the family had, although her father and uncle worked 'outside'.

49 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:43:41pm

re: #47 albusteve

and more...
after it was built, the barons sold off the federal land the RR ran through and made fortunes beyond belief...has anything really changed?

STIMULUS!!1!!

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:44:01pm

re: #43 Decatur Deb

No fair thinking ahead!!

You can think, you can plan, you can outline...you just can't WRITE.

My main characters are the partners of an all-female law firm.

51 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:44:07pm

re: #41 Obdicut

were mostly Irish, who weren't really considered 'white' at the time,

"Irish Need Not Apply"

((unless we have a really crappy job nobody else wants to do)

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:44:26pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

back when I was a lass.

Has something changed !?!?

//

Now I'm a dame.

53 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:44:53pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Now I'm a dame.

Damn!

54 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:44:54pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

For you, SFZ. John McCormack:

55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:46:46pm

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

My main characters are the partners of an all-female law firm.

The names are Esther, Rowena, and Jennifer.

Name of the firm? Est-Row-Jenn.

56 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:47:59pm

re: #55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Was looking for you earlier

Needed a movie review

Went anyway

Glad I did

Thanks for nothing

Love
Me

57 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:47:59pm

re: #55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The names are Esther, Rowena, and Jennifer.

Name of the firm? Est-Row-Jenn.

No Tess?

58 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:48:06pm

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

I hit 40,000 words on my novel.

A lot of them are the word 'and' though. And the one page where the main character just says 'boing' fifty times.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:48:12pm

re: #55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The names are Esther, Rowena, and Jennifer.

Name of the firm? Est-Row-Jenn.

Hmph. Cora, Persis and Josephine, thank you.

60 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:48:12pm

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

Figure it was put up on Facebook by someone who's, er, not a Young Republican?

Could be. Except students have, in fact, pulled crap like this in the past. The vicious stupidity of college racial politics students has to be seen to be believed.

Fixed that for you. It doesn't have to be political for some really stupid activities to be undertaken. Though a lot of times it is not intentionally vicious, but complete cluelessness about how a theme they fine amusing might be found highly insulting or inappropriate by others.

61 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:48:12pm

re: #49 Decatur Deb

STIMULUS!!1!!

historically it was huge, and possibly the only way it could have been built...but the fact remains, the people that built it got nothing while the dealers raked it in...most of the line and bridges etc were worthless after a few decades

62 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:48:19pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

No Tess?

No ,, Peggy!

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:49:01pm

re: #58 Obdicut

I hit 40,000 words on my novel.

A lot of them are the word 'and' though. And the one page where the main character just says 'boing' fifty times.

Nano will do that to you.

I'm actually sort of pleased with last year's--it needs lots of work, but when I get to it, it should polish up nice.

64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:49:57pm

re: #58 Obdicut

And the one page where the main character just says 'boing' fifty times.

heh...

65 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:50:23pm

re: #37 albusteve

the Chinese have a rich and colorful history in CA, most of it involving ugly bigotry and repression...those guys built the Union Pacific and Americans never forgave the Chinese for outworking our white boys 3-1 and still tolerated the abuse...without the Chinese, the Intercontinental Railroad (BO's term) would have taken years longer and untold millions more to build

In Arizona and New Mexico the Chinese were often killed if they wouldn't leave when the railroad was done. Rumor has it the lousy Chinese restaurants around here are a form of revenge....

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:50:57pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

You're just jealous you didn't think of it.
/

67 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:51:05pm

re: #65 wrenchwench

In Arizona and New Mexico the Chinese were often killed if they wouldn't leave when the railroad was done. Rumor has it the lousy Chinese restaurants around here are a form of revenge...

ouch!

68 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:51:39pm

re: #61 albusteve

historically it was huge, and possibly the only way it could have been built...but the fact remains, the people that built it got nothing while the dealers raked it in...most of the line and bridges etc were worthless after a few decades

Image: whites354.jpg

69 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:52:19pm

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, I've never done the nano thing. I can't keep track of months well enough to do it.

I had to check what month it was just now.

70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:52:21pm

re: #56 sattv4u2

What movie?

71 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:52:55pm

re: #70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What movie?

Crazy, Stupid, Love

Steve Carell

72 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:53:41pm

"My Lagan Love" 1910:

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:53:50pm

re: #71 sattv4u2

Oh! I didn't see it. What did you think?

74 Larry A. Herzberg  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:54:18pm

re: #10 Sergey Romanov

Yep, I'm Herzberg as well as Avram. Back in the day, when LGF was a hangout for a different sort of political type, I would lurk but rarely comment. When I decided one day to comment, I felt like I was treading into hostile territory, so I registered under a pseudonym. Since Charles and I go way back (and I mean, way back) I knew he wasn't of the same ilk as those who were attracted to his blog in those days. He re-confirmed that view when he publicly broke away from most of his previous following a couple of years ago. I now feel no need to cover my tracks here.

75 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:54:37pm

re: #65 wrenchwench

In Arizona and New Mexico the Chinese were often killed if they wouldn't leave when the railroad was done. Rumor has it the lousy Chinese restaurants around here are a form of revenge...

NM is full of myth and legend...I believe you
Billy the Kid himself killed 21 Chinese restaurant owners....fact

76 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:55:00pm

Wait, 50,000 words is a novel? Isn't it more of a novelette? A novella? A novelite? A novena?

77 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:55:17pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh! I didn't see it. What did you think?

:)

78 jaunte  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:55:56pm

re: #76 Obdicut

It may depend on the number of boings.

79 bluecheese  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:56:24pm

re: #2 Iwouldprefernotto

Thanks for making my brain hurt.

Here is a more simple explanation of how republicans arrive at policy positions......

80 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:56:24pm

re: #76 Obdicut
A novella.

81 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:56:35pm

re: #75 albusteve

NM is full of myth and legend...I believe you
Billy the Kid himself killed 21 Chinese restaurant owners...fact

Cereal killer.

82 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:57:28pm

re: #78 jaunte

It may depend on the number of boings.

So much in life does.

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:57:33pm

re: #74 Avram

It's a pleasure to meet such people here!

84 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:57:49pm

re: #74 Avram

He re-confirmed that view when he publicly broke away from most of his previous following a couple of years ago. I now feel no need to cover my tracks here.

It's a big improvement, with many benefits, such as this post you made.

85 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:57:49pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh! I didn't see it. What did you think?

re: #77 sattv4u2

:)

Still can't get used to

Matinee

WITH a "senior" discount

Still forked out $16 for two tix!

GET OFF MY LAWN!!

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:58:02pm

re: #76 Obdicut

Wait, 50,000 words is a novel? Isn't it more of a novelette? A novella? A novelite? A novena?

Basically, 50,000 was chosen as being a realistic goal for 30 days.

Some people go over, but for many people it's just a way of getting the novel roughed out, and it gets finished later. Or not.

87 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:58:14pm

re: #74 Avram

Welcome, and thank you for putting into a logical framework the behavior that I've seen exhibited so often. It really does help me to understand it.

Now, how to combat it... that's tricky.

88 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:58:22pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb
Cereal killer? Someone killed Cap'n Crunch?

89 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:58:22pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Cereal killer.

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Cereal killer.

a real sociopath...when Garrett gunned him down he was eating won ton tamales...go figure

90 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:58:33pm

re: #74 Avram

Welcome

((or welcome back ,, or ,, sumfin!!))

91 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 2:59:12pm

re: #88 PhillyPretzel

Cereal killer? Someone killed Cap'n Crunch?

Tony the Tiger Ated him

He was GRRREEAAAATTTTT!!!

92 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:00:01pm

re: #85 sattv4u2

re: #77 sattv4u2

Still can't get used to

Matinee

WITH a "senior" discount

Still forked out $16 for two tix!

GET OFF MY LAWN!!

'50s Saturday special: 2 horror flicks and 17 cartoons--25 cents. My grass is dryer than yours.

93 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:00:10pm

re: #88 PhillyPretzel

Cereal killer? Someone killed Cap'n Crunch?

the Quaker Life guy did him

94 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:00:59pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

'50s Saturday special: 2 horror flicks and 17 cartoons--25 cents. My grass is dryer than yours.

Not to mention the drawing for prizes between features

95 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:02:17pm

re: #93 albusteve

the Quaker Life guy did him

Barbara Bush and him were separated at birth!!
[Link: www.topplebush.com...]

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:02:20pm

re: #89 albusteve

re: #81 Decatur Deb

a real sociopath...when Garrett gunned him down he was eating won ton tamales...go figure

I once got an essay in which a student (brilliant kid, BTW), referred to events in a play degenerating into 'won ton violence'. Spellcheck did it!!

97 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:02:37pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

Basically, 50,000 was chosen as being a realistic goal for 30 days.

Some people go over, but for many people it's just a way of getting the novel roughed out, and it gets finished later. Or not.

Number One Daughter finished, made it through the first couple of cuts. She's found interesting egg-money work writing for an eBook blog in Vancouver.

98 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:02:52pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

'50s Saturday special: 2 horror flicks and 17 cartoons--25 cents. My grass is dryer than yours.

I never got the popularity of that line...'get off my lawn' and I thought the movie was marginal....Eastwood's greatest line was from Josie Wales..."dyin ain't much of a livin, boy"

99 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:03:06pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

Not to mention the drawing for prizes between features

I want my complete set of green Firestone ware!

100 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:03:16pm

re: #74 Avram

Howzit, Lawrence?

By the way, the "pull quote" insert I put in your post is something you can do yourself, should you be so inclined.

It's even simpler now -- all you have to do is put the quote inside <q> tags at the start of a paragraph, and have the rest of the paragraph begin immediately after the closing tag. Example:

<q>"Let your moral argument stand on its own, and let the facts stand on their own."</q>For instance, at the risk of incurring some cognitive dissonance...

That creates a left-aligned pull quote by default. You can snap it to the right side instead by adding a class to the tag:

<q class="aright">"Let your moral argument stand on its own, and let the facts stand on their own."</q>For instance, at the risk of incurring some cognitive dissonance...

101 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:03:29pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

I once got an essay in which a student (brilliant kid, BTW), referred to events in a play degenerating into 'won ton violence'. Spellcheck did it!!

Tong war?

102 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:04:03pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

I once got an essay in which a student (brilliant kid, BTW), referred to events in a play degenerating into 'won ton violence'. Spellcheck did it!!

heh...the kid got it...a genius

103 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:04:19pm

re: #101 Decatur Deb

Tong war?

Every Friday night in the back seat of my farthers old Chevy

((wonder what ever happened to her, btw!!))
//

104 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:04:59pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

Every Friday night in the back seat of my farthers old Chevy

((wonder what ever happened to her, btw!!))
//

You win the day.

105 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:05:23pm

re: #99 prairiefire

I want my complete set of green Firestone ware!

You only need 4,872 S&H Green Stamps for that

106 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:05:53pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

You win the day.

Sure ,, tell me now ,,, theres only 6 hours left!!

107 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:06:14pm

re: #100 Charles

You should make it an article, IMHO. Not a lot of people will see this comment.

108 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:07:37pm

re: #101 Decatur Deb

Tong war?

hey...bite your tong

109 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:11:12pm

Please, kind thoughts and prayers for my bestie, K. She is losing the big fight with Pancreatic cancer. The morphine pain patch no longer works and it seems her body is starting to shut down.
Hug your friends today when you see them!

110 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:12:28pm

re: #109 prairiefire

So sorry. I hope they can dull it IV.

111 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:12:55pm

re: #109 prairiefire

I know it's hard, but stay strong and think of better times

112 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:13:02pm

re: #109 prairiefire

Please, kind thoughts and prayers for my bestie, K. She is losing the big fight with Pancreatic cancer. The morphine pain patch no longer works and it seems her body is starting to shut down.
Hug your friends today when you see them!

put it down

113 Larry A. Herzberg  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:13:10pm

re: #100 Charles

Howzit brah.

Thanks for the formatting tip - that's exactly the pull-quote I would have chosen, if I'd known how to do it.

This is my first foray into using LGF pages, but I'll be sure to contribute in the future, if I think of anything worthwhile to add.

114 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:15:04pm

re: #113 Avram

I'll be sure to contribute in the future, if I think of anything worthwhile to add.

That doesn't stop any of us!!!

// < sarcasm tags, btw

115 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:15:23pm

re: #107 Sergey Romanov

You should make it an article, IMHO. Not a lot of people will see this comment.

I think an overall FAQ or tech tips page might be useful at this point.

Unless there already is one and I'm an idiot.

116 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:15:34pm

re: #110 Decatur Deb

So sorry. I hope they can dull it IV.

She's on the strongest strength and is at home. She is approaching a coma state as she is becoming increasingly incoherent.
We had many, many good times and that is what I will think about!
Biting humor and intelligent!

117 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:16:01pm

re: #114 sattv4u2

I'll be sure to contribute in the future, if I think of anything worthwhile to add.

That doesn't stop any of us!!!

// < sarcasm tags, btw

Especially you.

////kiddin

118 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:17:34pm

re: #117 Sergey Romanov

Especially you.

///kiddin

I hate you

And anyone who updinged that ,, ESPECIALLY me!!!

119 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:18:39pm

re: #118 sattv4u2

"He beats, therefore he loves" (old Russian proverb)

/

120 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:19:03pm

re: #116 prairiefire

She's on the strongest strength and is at home. She is approaching a coma state as she is becoming increasingly incoherent.
We had many, many good times and that is what I will think about!
Biting humor and intelligent!

why haven't you put it down?...allowing pets to suffer is cruel

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:20:32pm

re: #109 prairiefire

Please, kind thoughts and prayers for my bestie, K. She is losing the big fight with Pancreatic cancer. The morphine pain patch no longer works and it seems her body is starting to shut down.
Hug your friends today when you see them!

I am so sorry to hear this.

All my best to you and to her.

122 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:20:39pm

re: #113 Avram

Howzit brah.

Thanks for the formatting tip - that's exactly the pull-quote I would have chosen, if I'd known how to do it.

This is my first foray into using LGF pages, but I'll be sure to contribute in the future, if I think of anything worthwhile to add.

Did you discover the little pencil icon for editing your Pages?

Also, if you want you can use your real name by going into 'Account Settings' and entering a display name. You can also upload a picture to use as your personal icon there, and other stuff.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:21:04pm

re: #109 prairiefire

Most of the time, there is nothing for that amount of pain. I am sorry for your friend, and for you.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:21:26pm

re: #120 albusteve

why haven't you put it down?...allowing pets to suffer is cruel

Steve, I think K. is a homo sapiens sapiens.

125 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:23:18pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Steve, I think K. is a homo sapiens sapiens.

I assumed it was an animal...this is a person?

126 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:23:42pm

re: #120 albusteve

why haven't you put it down?...allowing pets to suffer is cruel

She's a 50 year old lady woman.

We invented "Sex In The City" in the 80's, 10 years before Carrie Bradshaw.

127 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:23:59pm

re: #125 albusteve

I assumed it was an animal...this is a person?

Welcome to your 'Oh shit' moment.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:24:15pm

re: #125 albusteve

I assumed it was an animal...this is a person?

I believe so. 'Bestie' as in best friend, not 'beastie'.

129 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:24:41pm

re: #126 prairiefire

She's a 50 year old lady woman.

We invented "Sex In The City" in the 80's, 10 years before Carrie Bradshaw.

I see...my condolences

130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:24:53pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

I read the word as "Beastie" at first. I understand the miss.

131 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:24:54pm

Sorry Prairie.

132 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:24:56pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

Welcome to your 'Oh shit' moment.

He's not alone

133 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:27:52pm

I bombed my dad with liquid morphine...he was dying of congestive heart failure and I couldn't stand it watching him gasping while he drowned, so I pulled all the stops and did it myself...oh man

134 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:28:21pm

re: #109 prairiefire

Very sorry to hear that. My thoughts are with you.

135 CuriousLurker  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:30:53pm

re: #109 prairiefire

I'm sorry to hear you're losing someone dear and that she's suffering. {{{prairiefire}}}

136 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:34:28pm

Thanks, guys.

137 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:36:01pm

Hey; here's a joke I just saw:

The barman said: "Sorry, we don't serve neutrinos."
A neutrino enters a bar.

138 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:36:46pm

re: #137 Naso Tang

Very good.

139 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:39:34pm

re: #138 Decatur Deb

Very good.

subjective

140 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:39:55pm

I still like the following: I'll have an entendre bartender and you better make it a double.

141 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:41:49pm

re: #140 PhillyPretzel

I still like the following: I'll have an entendre bartender and you better make it a double.

I like a triple menage once in a while

142 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:42:03pm

re: #139 albusteve

subjective

Also very good, if you meant that relativistically.

143 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:44:19pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

Also very good, if you meant that relativistically.

LOL!
not

144 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:46:25pm

re: #87 Obdicut

Welcome, and thank you for putting into a logical framework the behavior that I've seen exhibited so often. It really does help me to understand it.

Now, how to combat it... that's tricky.

Perhaps a start could be to understand how others think and tailor our argument in ways that are more likely to be persuasive to any given target audience.

[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com...]
[Link: motherjones.com...]

145 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:46:57pm

OT:

Seems the Perry slide may have just begun:

Cain upsets Perry in Florida Republican straw poll

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - Former pizza executive Herman Cain surprised rival Rick Perry with an upset victory on Saturday in a nonbinding Republican presidential straw poll in Florida, dealing a disappointing loss to the Texas governor two days after a shaky debate performance.

Perry, leading in the polls for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012, had needed a victory in the key test of strength in a crucial state to salve the wounds left over from a debate with his rivals on Thursday in which he struggled.

Instead, former Godfather's Pizza executive Cain, who is far behind the two top-tier candidates Perry and Mitt Romney, won with 37 percent of 2,657 votes cast.

Perry was a distant second at 15 percent, just ahead of Romney, who won 14 percent despite not participating in the poll. Further back were Rick Santorum, Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich, Jon Huntsman and Michele Bachmann.

So, not only did he get whipped by Cain, but there's no appreciable distance between him and Romney.

146 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:48:37pm

Dog time. BBL

147 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:49:37pm

Heh.

[Link: www.viruscomix.com...]

148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:49:47pm

re: #145 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I've got some super-duper Tea-Party redneck type friends.

They LOVE Herman Cain.

Two specifically? They've been talking about him for months.

149 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:50:12pm

re: #145 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Seems the Perry slide may have just begun:

Cain upsets Perry in Florida Republican straw poll

So, not only did he get whipped by Cain, but there's no appreciable distance between him and Romney.

which illustrates the notion that GOP voters should be locked up for public insanity

150 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:51:47pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

Dog time. BBL

Hot?
Chili?
Corn?

151 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:52:00pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've got some super-duper Tea-Party redneck type friends.

They LOVE Herman Cain.

Two specifically? They've been talking about him for months.

Herman Cain makes Donald Trump look like George Washington

152 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:52:43pm

re: #150 sattv4u2
I think it has 4 legs.

153 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:54:50pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've got some super-duper Tea-Party redneck type friends.

They LOVE Herman Cain.

Two specifically? They've been talking about him for months.

Hey, who can say no to "999"?

/

154 Larry A. Herzberg  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:55:01pm

re: #122 Charles

Did you discover the little pencil icon for editing your Pages?

Also, if you want you can use your real name by going into 'Account Settings' and entering a display name. You can also upload a picture to use as your personal icon there, and other stuff.

I noticed the editing pencil for LGF Pages and used it a few times, but now that you've promoted my post to your front page (thank you very much) I can no longer edit it - is that right? In any case, I just emailed you a possible minor revision to consider.

155 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:55:16pm

my dogs have always come and gone as they pleased...they always knew who was boss and hung around without any trouble...if i were to say, let's go for a walk Rover, they'd think I was nuts...country living

156 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:56:05pm

re: #154 Avram

Right now, you can't edit once it's been promoted, but I'm working on that.

157 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:56:33pm

re: #155 albusteve


if i were to say, let's go for a walk Rover, they'd think I was nuts.

Is that because non of them are named Rover!?!??!

158 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 3:59:13pm

re: #157 sattv4u2

if i were to say, let's go for a walk Rover, they'd think I was nuts.

Is that because non of them are named Rover!?!??!

indoor pets are not worth it for me...I don't walk dogs, they can walk themselves...guppies are another matter, do you put little strings on their tails and walk them across the fishbowl?...no....same thing

159 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:03:22pm

re: #158 albusteve

indoor pets are not worth it for me...I don't walk dogs, they can walk themselves...guppies are another matter, do you put little strings on their tails and walk them across the fishbowl?...no...same thing

I've never had a guppie named Rover, so I wouldn't know!

160 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:05:58pm

re: #159 sattv4u2

I've never had a guppie named Rover, so I wouldn't know!

the point is, pets need to live in their own natural environment, as much as possible...for example, my shepherd hated the mailman, so I got rid of the mailman...this is the natural way

161 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:11:39pm

re: #160 albusteve

the point is, pets need to live in their own natural environment, as much as possible...for example, my shepherd hated the mailman, so I got rid of the mailman...this is the natural way

Have a lot of flies in your house, huh?

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:11:43pm

re: #158 albusteve

indoor pets are not worth it for me...I don't walk dogs, they can walk themselves...guppies are another matter, do you put little strings on their tails and walk them across the fishbowl?...no...same thing

I went to elementary skool with a kid who used to put string around roaches (the insects) and walk them. I'm betting he's in prison right now.
Evening Honcos.

163 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:16:09pm

re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar

I went to elementary skool with a kid who used to put string around roaches (the insects) and walk them. I'm betting he's in prison right now.
Evening Honcos.

Friend had a skunk (scent glands removed) for a pet

He used to put the skunk on a leash and walk it down Broadway in our home town
Friend would have a clothespin on his nose

Price of skunk,,,, $100
Price of clothespin,,, pennies

Peoples reactions
PRICELESS!

164 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:16:42pm

one day an unknown neighbor from many houses down the block came to me in a rage..."your dog was loose!...it jumped my fence and raped my dog!...hung out like it owned the place!...I was afraid of it!...he growled at me! and wouldn't let me near my own dog!...what are you gonna do?...so I go down the street and see his yard is fenced with a 6ft high cyclone fence with those barbs on the top....so stud boy went over that fucker and banged his female all day, then intimidated the owner....I was never so proud...I said I'll I'll pay for an abortion but you should check out my dogs registry first...an hour later we are drinking beer and he's wondering what sort of cool pups he's gonna have....heh

165 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:19:03pm

re: #161 sattv4u2

Have a lot of flies in your house, huh?

yes, my house is open to the weather all day, every day...critters come and go through the bunkhouse on their own free will...I have looked up to find totally strange dogs sleeping in my bathroom or whatever...I'm pretty easy going with animals

166 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:21:19pm

re: #165 albusteve

yes, my house is open to the weather all day, every day...critters come and go through the bunkhouse on their own free will...I have looked up to find totally strange dogs sleeping in my bathroom or whatever...I'm pretty easy going with animals

When that roadrunner you were talking about yesterday comes in and starts gnawing on your face, don't complain to me!!

167 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:21:41pm

re: #153 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hey, who can say no to "999"?

/

Wer kann "nein" sagen, zu Plan-999?

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:25:52pm

re: #163 sattv4u2

Friend had a skunk (scent glands removed) for a pet

He used to put the skunk on a leash and walk it down Broadway in our home town
Friend would have a clothespin on his nose

Price of skunk,,, $100
Price of clothespin,,, pennies

Peoples reactions
PRICELESS!

Where does a person buy a skunk? All the ones I see around here are wild.

169 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:27:01pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

Where does a person buy a skunk? All the ones I see around here are wild.

Skunks-R-Us

170 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:28:23pm

I am pretty sure this applies:

[Link: plato.stanford.edu...]

(prescriptions of actions being categorially different from descriptions of fact)

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:28:36pm

re: #169 albusteve

Skunks-R-Us

Do they deliver?

172 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:29:20pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Do they deliver?

no, but the skunk does

173 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:29:27pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

Where does a person buy a skunk? All the ones I see around here are wild.

[Link: www.petsads.us...]

174 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:29:53pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

Where does a person buy a skunk? All the ones I see around here are wild.

Not sure nowadays

This was 30 + years ago. But I do know they're still available

[Link: www.google.com...]

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:30:37pm

re: #173 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: www.petsads.us...]

Too effing cute.

But a skunk is meant to be a wild animal.

176 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:31:13pm

re: #170 000G

I am pretty sure this applies:

[Link: plato.stanford.edu...]

to some people maybe...I don't doubt my own morality and am not concerned with others...reading philosophy cuts into my drinking time

177 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:32:34pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

Too effing cute.

But a skunk is meant to be a wild animal.

so are teenage boys...you live with it

178 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:37:41pm

This is an actual ad on Craig's List:

Im looking for someone to help me insert papers. They will be inserting two parts of the Sunday paper in back of a van. usally from about 12am till about 6am. very easy just fast pace. The pay is $60. you only actually work 4 to 5 hours.during that time frame. it is a very tight fit in that van. so you must be a small person. if interested please email. it may lead to more work thanks

Wonder if "American Girl" will be playing in the van.
/

179 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:38:24pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've got some super-duper Tea-Party redneck type friends.

They LOVE Herman Cain.

Two specifically? They've been talking about him for months.

I hope they talk him up even more. /Schadenfreude

180 CuriousLurker  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:39:38pm

Ugh, possible trouble on the horizon for climate scientists.

Scientists Want Publisher to Refreeze Greenland

The news release promoting the latest edition of Britain’s influential Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World hailed it as “the Greatest Book on Earth.”

Not the way climate scientists see it.

“Fiasco” was the word chosen by one scientist in an e-mail to the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo., alerting his colleagues to erroneous claims made by the publishers of the atlas (whose name derives from The Times of London) about the speed at which Greenland’s glaciers are melting.

He also feared that a map in the atlas, along with news accounts repeating an error in the news release, could pull climate scientists into another vortex of damaging controversy. [...]

181 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:40:35pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

Oh, if only the AGW-denier freaks held Fox News to the standards they hold the climatologists to.

182 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:41:23pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

Too effing cute.

But a skunk is meant to be a wild animal.

Well, wild skunks certainly are. The ones you can buy have been domesticated for several generations.

183 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:44:55pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

And somehow it will be totally lost on deniers that it is the same scientists they don't trust that are pushing for accuracy.

184 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:45:59pm

Dinner, bbiab.

185 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:47:37pm

Herman Cain gets more votes than Perry, Romney combined in Florida mock election

ORLANDO - Herman Cain was the clear winner Saturday of a straw poll of Republican activists in this battleground state, amassing more votes that the frontrunners for the presidential nomination, Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, combined.

Cain, a Georgia businessman whose compelling personal story - he grew up poor and black and beat cancer - and fiery rhetoric about the need to simplify the tax code and jump-start the economy struck a chord with Republican activists here, won 37 percent of the 2,657 votes cast. Perry, who made a late but spirited effort in the state, got 15 percent. Romney, who had announced earlier he is not competing in straw polls, came in third with 14 percent of the vote.

186 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:49:13pm

re: #176 albusteve

I don't doubt my own morality and am not concerned with others.

Heh. I saw you speaking out against bigotry the other day, you liar!

187 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:49:20pm
188 CuriousLurker  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:50:54pm

re: #187 laZardo

I've been meaning to ask you if that's the real you that started following me on Twitter the other day. Just checkin'...

189 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:54:53pm

re: #188 CuriousLurker

Yes. :3

190 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:55:20pm

re: #186 000G

Heh. I saw you speaking out against bigotry the other day, you liar!

it's not about morals...it's about an underdog getting pounded...that's a fight I want

191 CuriousLurker  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:55:25pm

re: #189 laZardo

Thanks. ;)

192 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 4:59:21pm
193 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:02:02pm

re: #190 albusteve

it's not about morals...it's about an underdog getting pounded...that's a fight I want

Heh. I know there is a soft core behind that tough guy facade!

194 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:04:30pm

re: #178 Cannadian Club Akbar

This is an actual ad on Craig's List:

Im looking for someone to help me insert papers. They will be inserting two parts of the Sunday paper in back of a van. usally from about 12am till about 6am. very easy just fast pace. The pay is $60. you only actually work 4 to 5 hours.during that time frame. it is a very tight fit in that van. so you must be a small person. if interested please email. it may lead to more work thanks

Wonder if "American Girl" will be playing in the van.
/

" a partially clothed body was found today by the side of the road covered in leaves and this weeks K-Mart fliers"

195 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:04:40pm

Great moments of albusteve, courtesy of my favorites:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

196 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:05:18pm

re: #195 000G

Great moments of albusteve, courtesy of my favorites:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

You really need a hobby!!

/

197 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:05:55pm

re: #193 000G

Heh. I know there is a soft core behind that tough guy facade!

it's not about being tough, it's about being willing...and I'm willing to defend the small, the marginal, the people that can't do it alone

198 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:07:05pm

re: #197 albusteve

it's not about being tough, it's about being willing...and I'm willing to defend the small, the marginal, the people that can't do it alone

But not a guppie named Rover!!

199 Charleston Chew  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:07:15pm

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Herman Cain gets more votes than Perry, Romney combined in Florida mock election

Are Republicans more prone to being infatuated with 'hero' candidate (such as Perry, or Thompson in 08)and then quickly becoming disillusioned with the real person, producing a lot of shooting star nominees, or is it universal? I can't think of any recent Dem candidates that were shooting stars in this way.

200 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:07:33pm

re: #197 albusteve

it's not about being tough, it's about being willing...and I'm willing to defend the small, the marginal, the people that can't do it alone

Cool. But that leaves open the question of what should be done.

201 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:09:48pm

re: #197 albusteve

it's not about being tough, it's about being willing...and I'm willing to defend the small, the marginal, the people that can't do it alone

You'll like this one. She can do it alone, at least until the cops show up.

202 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:10:56pm

re: #199 Charleston Chew

Isn't it weird how fickle they are? How many strong front runners have there been so far, including Palin?

203 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:12:55pm

re: #199 Charleston Chew

Are Republicans more prone to being infatuated with 'hero' candidate (such as Perry, or Thompson in 08)and then quickly becoming disillusioned with the real person, producing a lot of shooting star nominees, or is it universal? I can't think of any recent Dem candidates that were shooting stars in this way.

Hillary was going to be THE candidate in 2008
Dean in 2004
Bill Bradley/ Paul Wellstone/ Bob Kerrey 2000
Jerry Brown/ Paul Tsongas 1992
Gary Hart 1988

204 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:17:51pm

re: #200 000G

Cool. But that leaves open the question of what should be done.

yes it does...a question I've asked a hundred times to little avail...people here are deep into mockery and really bad jokes...hundreds of stupid, repetitive jokes...as if this is a solution

205 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:19:14pm

re: #201 wrenchwench

You'll like this one. She can do it alone, at least until the cops show up.

good for her...you have to stand your ground, even at the end

206 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:21:17pm

re: #203 sattv4u2

heh,, almost forgot Wesley Clark was going to be THE one to defeat Bush in 2004

207 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:25:15pm

re: #206 sattv4u2

heh,, almost forgot Wesley Clark was going to be THE one to defeat Bush in 2004

Gary Heart...prince of the dems...what was the name of that boat?...Monkey Business?

208 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:26:07pm

re: #204 albusteve

yes it does...a question I've asked a hundred times to little avail...people here are deep into mockery and really bad jokes...hundreds of stupid, repetitive jokes...as if this is a solution

But that question, what should be done, is a moral one...

209 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:26:32pm

re: #207 albusteve

Gary Heart...prince of the dems...what was the name of that boat?...Monkey Business?

Yup,., with Donna Rice

[Link: www.people.com...]

210 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:27:42pm

re: #206 sattv4u2

heh,, almost forgot Wesley Clark was going to be THE one to defeat Bush in 2004

Yep, I certainly had my hopes. I worked on the campaign and still feel he'd have made a better showing than Kerry. Shrug. Such is American politics.

211 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:28:25pm

re: #208 000G

But that question, what should be done, is a moral one...

why isn't it just a practical question?...keep your morals in your pants and govern...I'm not a political dog, I hardly give a shit who's president...do the job

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:29:35pm

re: #207 albusteve

Gary Heart...prince of the dems...what was the name of that boat?...Monkey Business?

Hart. And yes, it was the Monkey Business--which leaves in my mind an open question of how much he didn't want to get caught.

213 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:29:53pm

re: #209 sattv4u2

Yup,., with Donna Rice

[Link: www.people.com...]

ahh, the good old days, when cheaters and frauds had their pictures taken

214 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:30:46pm

re: #211 albusteve

why isn't it just a practical question?

That would be the case if you left your question open as to what could be done (legally, politically, economically, administratively). If you narrow it down to what should be done, what is right to do (and then of course you will also say what is wrong to do), then it's moral.

215 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:32:03pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

Hart. And yes, it was the Monkey Business--which leaves in my mind an open question of how much he didn't want to get caught.

I'm starting to remember now...what an idiot, one of many

216 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:34:30pm

Ah well

Hitting the sack, kiddies

Long day tomorrow

Play nice

217 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:35:22pm

re: #214 000G

That would be the case if you left your question open as to what could be done (legally, politically, economically, administratively). If you narrow it down to what should be done, what is right to do (and then of course you will also say what is wrong to do), then it's moral.

preach it

218 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:36:06pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

Hart. And yes, it was the Monkey Business--which leaves in my mind an open question of how much he didn't want to get caught.

re: #215 albusteve

I'm starting to remember now...what an idiot, one of many

The nomination was his for the asking

He DARED the press to catch him doing something amiss

Whats the old saying about never starting a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel!?!?!?

219 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:36:42pm

re: #217 albusteve

preach it

Wouldn't dare cutting into your drinking time... ;-)

220 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 5:40:38pm

re: #219 000G

Wouldn't dare cutting into your drinking time... ;-)

I don't need to talk it to death with morality bullshit and hairsplitting excuses for inaction...your impersonation is weak

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:07:25pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

Hart. And yes, it was the Monkey Business--which leaves in my mind an open question of how much he didn't want to get caught.

I knew the girl who gave Chuck Robb the "massage". She was cute, but... oooh so shallow...

222 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:09:28pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

223 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:11:54pm

re: #222 PhillyPretzel

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

You should also wish a good night the the gal lizards.

224 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:13:51pm

Ya know how coming out of a commercial break at a sporting event on TV, they show stuff from around the stadium? Well, I just saw this. WAY COOL!!

225 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:15:53pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

Ugh, possible trouble on the horizon for climate scientists.

No trouble at all. Erronnius information came out, they hammered it right away. It will be another PROOF THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX! that will actually say the opposite of what they think it says.

Science, it works.

226 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:16:01pm

What's to be done...

The power and money is held by the government and big business. Collusion between the two means that the interests of the little guy will almost always be ignored. Or they will pass something they can convince you is in your interest without actually being productive to that end.

The solution is to put a barrier between moneyed interests and the government to avoid collusion. And to implement an independent bureau within the government that is tasked with finding corruption and wastefulness and that has the power to compel changes.

227 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:16:25pm

Prepared the garden for a week on rain. Harvested some acorn squash. I'm still over run with rats and mice. I'll buy a live trap and pellet gun on Monday. I spotted one late blooming frog in the garden yesterday but not much sign of the mature frogs. I'll be listening hard once the rain starts.

228 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:16:32pm

re: #224 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's kwazy.

West Virginia just scored seven more points than I thought they'd score tonight.

WVU has offered to purchase the "West Fucking Virginia" t-shirts that have gotten popular trying to keep them off of the teevee's tonight.

229 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:19:52pm

re: #227 Killgore Trout

Prepared the garden for a week on rain. Harvested some acorn squash. I'm still over run with rats and mice. I'll buy a live trap and pellet gun on Monday. I spotted one late blooming frog in the garden yesterday but not much sign of the mature frogs. I'll be listening hard once the rain starts.

Have you considered cats?

230 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:19:59pm

re: #228 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

USF is beating UTEP. And I want one of those shirts. The guy that does the news on my radio M-F is a WVU grad.

231 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:22:26pm

re: #227 Killgore Trout

Prepared the garden for a week on rain. Harvested some acorn squash. I'm still over run with rats and mice. I'll buy a live trap and pellet gun on Monday. I spotted one late blooming frog in the garden yesterday but not much sign of the mature frogs. I'll be listening hard once the rain starts.

man, this rat problem has to end somehow...I've never experienced such a thing like it...good luck bro, but it seems like a pellet gun is too slow, too time consuming, and the rats are probably almost as smart as you are...I have no clue besides the nuclear option

232 darthstar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:26:05pm

Okay, so Bachmann wins Iowa's straw poll, and now Herman Cain wins Florida's straw poll...by twenty fucking per cent!
Herman Cain: 37.11%
Rick Perry: 15.43%
Mitt Romney: 14.00%
Rick Santorum: 10.88%
Ron Paul: 10.39%
Newt Gingrich: 8.43%
Jon Huntsman: 2.26%
Michele Bachmann: 1.51%
It's tough to be a front runner in the Republican party.

233 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:27:34pm

re: #232 darthstar

Okay, so Bachmann wins Iowa's straw poll, and now Herman Cain wins Florida's straw poll...by twenty fucking per cent!
Herman Cain: 37.11%
Rick Perry: 15.43%
Mitt Romney: 14.00%
Rick Santorum: 10.88%
Ron Paul: 10.39%
Newt Gingrich: 8.43%
Jon Huntsman: 2.26%
Michele Bachmann: 1.51%
It's tough to be a front runner in the Republican party.

I still think Thunderdome would be the more effective method of selection.

234 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:28:46pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I still think Thunderdome would be the more effective method of selection.

9 men entah, won mahn leeve.

235 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:28:55pm

re: #232 darthstar

Okay, so Bachmann wins Iowa's straw poll, and now Herman Cain wins Florida's straw poll...by twenty fucking per cent!
Herman Cain: 37.11%
Rick Perry: 15.43%
Mitt Romney: 14.00%
Rick Santorum: 10.88%
Ron Paul: 10.39%
Newt Gingrich: 8.43%
Jon Huntsman: 2.26%
Michele Bachmann: 1.51%
It's tough to be a front runner in the Republican party.

like a tryout for the Rockettes...ho hum...I guess it eats up time tho

236 darthstar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:30:05pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I still think Thunderdome would be the more effective method of selection.

Will Bachmann wear the leather skirt that Tina Turner wore?

237 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:30:41pm

re: #234 BigPapa

9 men entah, won mahn leeve.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

238 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:30:58pm

re: #236 darthstar

Will Bachmann wear the leather skirt that Tina Turner wore?

I believe it was chain mail actually.

239 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:31:07pm

re: #232 darthstar

Okay, so Bachmann wins Iowa's straw poll, and now Herman Cain wins Florida's straw poll...by twenty fucking per cent!
Herman Cain: 37.11%
Rick Perry: 15.43%
Mitt Romney: 14.00%
Rick Santorum: 10.88%
Ron Paul: 10.39%
Newt Gingrich: 8.43%
Jon Huntsman: 2.26%
Michele Bachmann: 1.51%
It's tough to be a front runner in the Republican party.

And this comes the same week as Perry having a particularly bad time at a debate. Romney didn't even participate in this poll and he's right within spitting distance of Perry's numbers. So what we may have seen on Monday was Goodhair's crown being swiped away.

240 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:31:35pm

re: #236 darthstar

Will Bachmann wear the leather skirt that Tina Turner wore?

AmIdol

241 darthstar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:31:57pm

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I believe it was chain mail actually.

That'll work.

242 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:32:07pm

This is weird:

Pope tells German Muslims all must be bound by law

But the link heading is the one on Google News, yet the actual headline is Pope meets abuse victims during German trip

We see this stuff from Fox, but who changed the heading on Google, and one has to read a long way down before finding a couple of sentences that reference the pope meeting with Muslims.

What gives?

243 Targetpractice  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:33:27pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I still think Thunderdome would be the more effective method of selection.

"Who run Bartertown?!"

244 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:34:09pm

re: #242 Naso Tang

This is weird:

Pope tells German Muslims all must be bound by law

But the link heading is the one on Google News, yet the actual headline is Pope meets abuse victims during German trip

We see this stuff from Fox, but who changed the heading on Google, and one has to read a long way down before finding a couple of sentences that reference the pope meeting with Muslims.

What gives?

Fox is an effective business model...why not simply clone them?

245 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:34:34pm

re: #243 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Who run Bartertown?!"

Rick Perry can go around carrying Ron Paul on his back...

246 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:38:34pm

re: #244 albusteve

Fox is an effective business model...why not simply clone them?

Yeah, but the point is that the link heading on news.google is not the one from Reuters, and the google link is just one of their many news links. Google is not in politics like that, so how did their heading get changed?

Their stuff is computer generated. I can only imagine that this sentence or two from the Pope is making many more rounds in certain quarters with the google heading, and has been picked up that way.

247 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:42:17pm

re: #246 Naso Tang

Yeah, but the point is that the link heading on news.google is not the one from Reuters, and the google link is just one of their many news links. Google is not in politics like that, so how did their heading get changed?

Their stuff is computer generated. I can only imagine that this sentence or two from the Pope is making many more rounds in certain quarters with the google heading, and has been picked up that way.

oh my...what a mystery!....
I have lost patience with all this petty blog driven back and forth bullshit

248 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:43:09pm

re: #247 albusteve

oh my...what a mystery!...
I have lost patience with all this petty blog driven back and forth bullshit

Not enough to keep you from posting though.

249 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:44:12pm

re: #109 prairiefire

*hugs* for you and friend x

250 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:46:31pm

posts that are new and informative that shed light on our national predicament are welcomed and informative...whatever Ron Paul said yesterday, or what mystery behavior some other blog is up to is a waste of time

251 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:47:14pm

Alrighty. See ya'll on the AM shift.

252 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:47:47pm

re: #247 albusteve

oh my...what a mystery!...
I have lost patience with all this petty blog driven back and forth bullshit

Beat your computer! No. wait....

253 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:48:33pm

re: #247 albusteve

oh my...what a mystery!...
I have lost patience with all this petty blog driven back and forth bullshit

Yet here you are.

254 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:49:16pm

re: #248 Naso Tang

Not enough to keep you from posting though.

my role here is to balance your political folly with common sense, to remind you when you are so petty that you look just like your enemies you spend so much time trashing

255 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:50:19pm

Nobody talk about What Ron Paul Said Yesterday. Don't do it.

256 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:50:43pm

re: #253 bratwurst

Yet here you are.

I am...let's rage about Ron Paul...you in?

257 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:51:26pm

re: #254 albusteve

my role here is to balance your political folly with common sense, to remind you when you are so petty that you look just like your enemies you spend so much time trashing

Actually you are the reminder.

258 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:52:12pm

re: #250 albusteve

posts that are new and informative that shed light on our national predicament are welcomed and informative...whatever Ron Paul said yesterday, or what mystery behavior some other blog is up to is a waste of time

You are not losing patience, you are losing comprehension.

This is not about blogs. I have no idea what other blogs are saying, and Reuters is not a blog. They have a heading in the article which is not the labelled one on one of the main news gathering web sites from Google that links to Reuters.

Either this is Google being hacked or manipulated, or the google news gathering system is stupidly flawed, or both.

If you don't give a shit just say so, as you are wont to do.

259 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:53:00pm

re: #256 albusteve

I am...let's rage about Ron Paul...you in?

Ah, another Albusteve fest, piss and vinegar and not caring who or what.

260 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:53:28pm

re: #254 albusteve

my role here is to balance your political folly with common sense, to remind you when you are so petty that you look just like your enemies you spend so much time trashing

I think you said that to someone else recently. Use less cut and paste.

261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:54:51pm

re: #236 darthstar

Will Bachmann wear the leather skirt that Tina Turner wore?

I read that Tina's chain mail dress weighed something like 90 pounds.

262 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:55:02pm

hahaha!
thanks for the support...
Ron Paul sucks!

263 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:57:57pm

About Ron Paul, OK.

Now, what kind of support do you need tonight?

264 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 6:58:18pm

re: #258 Naso Tang

Either this is Google being hacked or manipulated, or the google news gathering system is stupidly flawed, or both.

I think it's an algorithmic issue. For the last several months I've seen nutter stories aggregated on Yahoo. I think Google and Yahoo try to direct like news items to users, and they in turn forward the articles.

265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:01:27pm

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I believe it was chain mail actually.

Just looked it up. Weighed a hundred and twenty pounds.

266 albusteve  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:02:46pm

re: #263 Naso Tang

About Ron Paul, OK.

Now, what kind of support do you need tonight?

post something newsworthy or original...I dare you

267 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:03:04pm

re: #264 BigPapa

I think it's an algorithmic issue. For the last several months I've seen nutter stories aggregated on Yahoo. I think Google and Yahoo try to direct like news items to users, and they in turn forward the articles.

I understand it is an algorithm and somehow takes into account how much an article is read, which places it on their front page although how they know that I don't know.

However that doesn't explain how the very obvious actual article heading gets changed, when any software parser can get it from the actual article.

268 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:04:10pm

re: #266 albusteve

post something newsworthy or original...I dare you

Does it have to have those characteristics to you, or will any normal person do?

269 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:07:07pm

re: #267 Naso Tang

I understand it is an algorithm and somehow takes into account how much an article is read, which places it on their front page although how they know that I don't know.

However that doesn't explain how the very obvious actual article heading gets changed, when any software parser can get it from the actual article.

Maybe somebody is not paying attention to the gist of an article, reads a sentence or two, then applies the headline. Pretty half assed if that is what's happening.

270 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:08:51pm

re: #266 albusteve

post something newsworthy or original...I dare you

Looking for a rock to beat yourself against tonight? How about you smash your computer.

271 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:10:25pm

re: #230 Cannadian Club Akbar

USF is beating UTEP. And I want one of those shirts. The guy that does the news on my radio M-F is a WVU grad.

[Link: rivals.yahoo.com...]

272 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:12:03pm

re: #269 BigPapa

Maybe somebody is not paying attention to the gist of an article, reads a sentence or two, then applies the headline. Pretty half assed if that is what's happening.

No, no human reads and submits at google, or yahoo or any other main news list service. This is a long article and only a sentence or two concerns a meeting with Muslims, and no algorithm would have written its own heading.

Somehow that sentence became the gist of the heading and, regardless of how easily albusteve is bored, I find that interesting.

273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:15:14pm

Image: collegeshwag-1-b.jpg

Seriously... entire state of WV. One area code.

274 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:17:56pm

re: #249 wozzablog

Thanks, how's your mum?

275 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:24:27pm

Nodding off here. Goodnight.

Steve, take an aspirin before you retire, if you haven't already passed out.

276 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:27:16pm

re: #275 Naso Tang

Nodding off here. Goodnight.

Steve, take an aspirin before you retire, if you haven't already passed out.

Hah. I'll have a lychee martini, or two, for Steve.

277 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:29:58pm

re: #276 BigPapa

I had my first vodka martini last week.

I had my last vodka martini last week.

Tried a gin martini years ago, tasted like rubbing alcohol.

But I could eat martini soaked olives until I asplode.

278 BishopX  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:33:12pm

re: #273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Same as Maine and Vermont....

279 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:35:54pm

re: #278 BishopX

Cool. I didn't know that. Virginia in the 70's when I was growing up? 703 and 804. That was it.

Now there's 276,434,804,540,703 and I think another one.

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:41:00pm

re: #279 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Cool. I didn't know that. Virginia in the 70's when I was growing up? 703 and 804. That was it.

Now there's 276,434,804,540,703 and I think another one.

571 and 757.

281 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:41:51pm

Evening, all.

282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 7:42:57pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

What's your area code?

283 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 8:02:37pm

re: #282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What's your area code?

Why do you ask?

284 Larry A. Herzberg  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 8:10:50pm

re: #87 Obdicut

Welcome, and thank you for putting into a logical framework the behavior that I've seen exhibited so often. It really does help me to understand it.

Now, how to combat it... that's tricky.

Maybe just directing them to this post would help...? (I'm an incorrigible optimist about human nature).

285 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 8:13:11pm

re: #284 Avram

Maybe just directing them to this post would help...? (I'm an incorrigible optimist about human nature).

That makes my attitude about human nature balance yours out perfectly.

286 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 8:13:40pm

May I offer up a little sanity break? Some macro photography from today at about 5000 feet above it all.

Paged

More at my photo blog.

287 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 8:15:09pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

Hello Dark, how are things?

288 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 8:26:31pm

re: #287 Rightwingconspirator

Hello Dark, how are things?

Much better.

289 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 8:31:09pm

re: #288 Dark_Falcon

Glad to hear it.

290 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:04:12pm

Got SNL on for the first time since the 2008 election in order to see Radiohead, but not sure I can endure...so not funny.

291 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:06:49pm

So apparently Obama will be in the theater literally blocks from where I'm staying tomorrow morning.

...fuck.

292 Atlas Fails  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:11:40pm

re: #290 bratwurst

Got SNL on for the first time since the 2008 election in order to see Radiohead, but not sure I can endure...so not funny.

No offense, but damn, Radiohead is weird.

293 windsagio  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:12:03pm

I've probably posted this before, but it's always worth reupping:

laZardo, say goodbye to doing anything at all tomorrow lol,

294 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:15:39pm

re: #292 Atlas Fails

No offense, but damn, Radiohead is weird.

Can't argue with that...Thom Yorke (the singer) in particular is a STRANGE looking dude. At least they will never be accused of getting by on their looks!

295 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:15:43pm

re: #291 laZardo

So apparently Obama will be in the theater literally blocks from where I'm staying tomorrow morning.

...fuck.

Gridlock!

296 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:17:21pm

re: #292 Atlas Fails

No offense, but damn, Radiohead is weird.

None taken, they're an acquired taste. But once you've tasted the sweet fruit music is not the same.

297 Atlas Fails  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:17:33pm

re: #290 bratwurst

Got SNL on for the first time since the 2008 election in order to see Radiohead, but not sure I can endure...so not funny.

The Daily Show and Colbert Report are funnier and shorter.

298 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:19:17pm

re: #293 windsagio

laZardo, say goodbye to doing anything at all tomorrow lol,

Unless I'm gonna protest!!!111

299 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:20:43pm

re: #297 Atlas Fails

The Daily Show and Colbert Report are funnier and shorter.

There are more laughs in a week of Colbert than in the last 100+ SNL sketches I have seen that didn't include Tine Fey as Sarah Palin.

300 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:20:50pm

re: #295 prairiefire

Gridlock!

Good thing I don't have a car, then. q;

301 Atlas Fails  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:20:59pm

re: #296 BigPapa

None taken, they're an acquired taste. But once you've tasted the sweet fruit music is not the same.

Maybe I'll give them a chance. Come to think of it, I can't think of a band I've been a drooling fanboy of since Nirvana, and even they were a little before my time. I need to get with it.

302 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:21:51pm

Good evening lizards! Hope you are all well..Got home from the OU party out in Noble..We won in an exciting football game...And speaking of Gridlock.. I had to leave the party before the game ended to get back home cause I live by the Stadium and after the game we are talking serious gridlock in Norman..Half way through the 4th everybody is saying you better get your ass home while you still can..

303 windsagio  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:27:40pm

re: #298 laZardo

WUB is actualy up in town this weekend for a Con, as an aside. You guys should meet up and go harass the Pres :D

304 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:29:32pm

re: #302 HoosierHoops

Good evening lizards! Hope you are all well..Got home from the OU party out in Noble..We won in an exciting football game...And speaking of Gridlock.. I had to leave the party before the game ended to get back home cause I live by the Stadium and after the game we are talking serious gridlock in Norman..Half way through the 4th everybody is saying you better get your ass home while you still can..

True that.

Hoops is enjoying college ball this week, because the Colts haven't got a chance. Even with Peyton Manning they'd be underdogs against the Steelers. Without him, Pittsburgh is going to run over Indy like a steamroller tomorrow night. Ben Rothesburger won't even play the 4th quarter, I predict.

305 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:30:45pm

re: #303 windsagio

WUB is actualy up in town this weekend for a Con, as an aside. You guys should meet up and go harass the Pres :D

WUB would a perfect jester for a political event.

306 palomino  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:32:36pm

re: #247 albusteve

oh my...what a mystery!...
I have lost patience with all this petty blog driven back and forth bullshit

If you've lost your patience with this blog, you can always use the button that sends you to one of 5 billion others.

307 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:34:20pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

True that.

Hoops is enjoying college ball this week, because the Colts haven't got a chance. Even with Peyton Manning they'd be underdogs against the Steelers. Without him, Pittsburgh is going to run over Indy like a steamroller tomorrow night. Ben Rothesburger won't even play the 4th quarter, I predict.

I got a call from Indiana this morning.. They are in Mourning..It's sad about Peyton...Football is a violent sport and your time to shine is short..
I am amazed how crazy the fans are here..It's college spirit the best?
Nice seeing you Dark

308 windsagio  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:34:50pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

Going to the protest in a bird costume and holding up a sign that has the little Woodstock hashmark text would be pretty brilliant... and kinda dada too.

But worktime, peaces ><

309 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:36:38pm

re: #301 Atlas Fails

Maybe I'll give them a chance. Come to think of it, I can't think of a band I've been a drooling fanboy of since Nirvana, and even they were a little before my time. I need to get with it.

It takes time. I had heard them before but a late night work binge playing OK Computer really weirded me out enough to sense that there was something different about them. There's still one or two songs per album that I never get and don't wish to listen to but the rest is really good headphone music. They really are unique.

All the really good bands seem to weird me out at first, in a good way, then I get them after paying attention.

310 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:38:56pm

re: #1 Charles

The smarter GOP politicians probably see the illogicality of their anti-science positions, and are cynically pandering to the unwashed right wing masses.

But I think some of the current crop of clowns really are as dim as they portray on television. Perry, Bachmann, Santorum -- these aren't anyone's idea of intellectuals.

The real problem is that such a large portion of the American public doesn't understand the simple logic you outlined, and is in reactionary/rejection mode on issues like climate change -- and it's largely because of well-funded propaganda campaigns by powerful corporations, who have their own logic based solely on profitability.

I took 2 semesters of logic in college (I know it's difficult to tell). I didn't have a problem in class and made good grades because I thought it all made sense. I was "duh".

I still have a hard time understand that people don't get it. One doesn't have to be able to articulate to a Professor the why's and what for's to call BS.

How is everyone?

311 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:40:54pm

re: #290 bratwurst

Got SNL on for the first time since the 2008 election in order to see Radiohead, but not sure I can endure...so not funny.

Kid has it on, I heard some stupid not-funny LGBT joke. I have to think that the LGBT thinks it's lame too.

312 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:41:49pm

Radiohead - Lotus Flower

313 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:42:33pm

re: #309 BigPapa

"All the really good bands seem to weird me out at first, in a good way, then I get them after paying attention."

That happens to me with Fashion.

314 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:43:56pm

Anyone who is not waiting for the second Radiohead song on SNL can check out Red Hot Chili Peppers live at Rock in Rio:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

315 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:44:03pm

re: #313 prairiefire

"All the really good bands seem to weird me out at first, in a good way, then I get them after paying attention."

That happens to me with Fashion.

So, what do you think of the current trend of skinny jeans and leggings?

316 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:44:39pm

re: #307 HoosierHoops

I got a call from Indiana this morning.. They are in Mourning..It's sad about Peyton...Football is a violent sport and your time to shine is short..
I am amazed how crazy the fans are here..It's college spirit the best?
Nice seeing you Dark

Why mourning? He's not gone for good.

317 freetoken  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:44:52pm

re: #310 ggt

How is everyone?

Picking out glochids - I foraged a couple of prickly pear fruits today. Delicious, but lots of work.

318 HappyWarrior  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:45:48pm

Evening, morning, whatever it is people. Just got back from one of my favorite bars. Always an adventure.

319 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:46:31pm

re: #315 ggt

So, what do you think of the current trend of skinny jeans and leggings?

It looks cute on the young ones. I wore leggings a lot in the 90's. At 50, my fashion choices are becoming more limited. Busy prints? Nooooooooooooooooooo

320 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:46:34pm

re: #317 freetoken

Picking out glochids - I foraged a couple of prickly pear fruits today. Delicious, but lots of work.

Vocabulary Word for the Day: Glochids

Be sure to use neosporin w/lidocane.

321 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:47:19pm

re: #319 prairiefire

It looks cute on the young ones. I wore leggings a lot in the 90's. At 50, my fashion choices are becoming more limited. Busy prints? Nooo

No, as long as you have a long sweater or coat, you can wear leggings. They are sooo comfortable.

322 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:48:42pm

re: #321 ggt

No, as long as you have a long sweater or coat, you can wear leggings. They are sooo comfortable.

I don't like tight things anymore. I say no to spandex.

323 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:49:16pm

re: #321 ggt

No, as long as you have a long sweater or coat, you can wear leggings. They are sooo comfortable.

How was your day?

324 freetoken  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:50:08pm

re: #320 ggt

I avoided most of them... but while carrying the fruit in a plastic bag I let the bag rub against my shorts, so now I've got to tweezer out all the little devils from the clothes.

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:51:17pm

re: #324 freetoken

I avoided most of them... but while carrying the fruit in a plastic bag I let the bag rub against my shorts, so now I've got to tweezer out all the little devils from the clothes.

That sounds like work --I'd pay the dry cleaner or just buy new clothes.

LOL

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:52:02pm

re: #323 prairiefire

How was your day?

Productive.

Monster Puppy is home and TIRED. Have to wake him up to go outside with the others.

Hope is lasts a day or two.

LOL

327 Atlas Fails  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:52:18pm

This second Radiohead is a little better than their first, imo. Any recommendations as far as all-time favorites from them?

328 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:53:03pm

re: #327 Atlas Fails

This second Radiohead is a little better than their first, imo. Any recommendations as far as all-time favorites from them?

Yep, this second one was good.

329 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:54:12pm

re: #322 prairiefire

I don't like tight things anymore. I say no to spandex.

Really? Most are Lycra now, not Spandex. I don't find them tight at all--just comfortable.

330 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:55:08pm

re: #310 ggt

I took 2 semesters of logic in college (I know it's difficult to tell). I didn't have a problem in class and made good grades because I thought it all made sense. I was "duh".

I still have a hard time understand that people don't get it. One doesn't have to be able to articulate to a Professor the why's and what for's to call BS.

How is everyone?

Hi You...I really never took difficult classes for most of college.. Hey I got through..But if there was a creative writing class, Art, Music whatever, I was on it...I'm not ashamed..I'm a late bloomer..
I liked debate class and also public speaking? I'm a Ham.. I really enjoy talking in front of people.. I'll never forget this one class where the final was giving an exactly 6 minute speech about something inspiration in the State Auditorium in front of hundreds of students..It was an all day final.. We all had to sit there all day and each go on stage..Exactly 6 minutes.. Go over or under then points come off..
Me on Stage for 6 minutes talking about something inspirational? LOL
I swear to god there were some people with tears in their eyes at the end.. I saw them...It's not fair...I love that stuff

331 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:55:14pm

I've decided that I'm finally going to get around to trying out the apartment's gym tomorrow. This way I have an almost-ground-level view of the action.

...with my back turned to the window because the treadmill faces the other way.

XD

332 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:56:38pm

re: #327 Atlas Fails

This second Radiohead is a little better than their first, imo. Any recommendations as far as all-time favorites from them?

Depends on what you want. If you want something like a pop song structure go with The Bends or OK Computer. If you want something more obtuse, go with Kid A or Amnesiac. If you want something in between go with Hail to the Thief. However, I think there overall best is actually 2007's In Rainbows.

BTW: the second song tonight (Staircase) is not on ANY album.

333 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:56:38pm

re: #316 Dark_Falcon

Why mourning? He's not gone for good.

Rumors are it's more serious than people think.. He won't be back this year

334 Lidane  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:56:57pm

re: #327 Atlas Fails

This second Radiohead is a little better than their first, imo. Any recommendations as far as all-time favorites from them?

OK Computer. Hail to the Thief. Pretty much everything.

Radiohead are awesome, even if Thom Yorke can't dance for shit. Of course, I'm a fangirl, so I'm biased. XD

335 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:00:18pm

re: #330 HoosierHoops

Hi You...I really never took difficult classes for most of college.. Hey I got through..But if there was a creative writing class, Art, Music whatever, I was on it...I'm not ashamed..I'm a late bloomer..
I liked debate class and also public speaking? I'm a Ham.. I really enjoy talking in front of people.. I'll never forget this one class where the final was giving an exactly 6 minute speech about something inspiration in the State Auditorium in front of hundreds of students..It was an all day final.. We all had to sit there all day and each go on stage..Exactly 6 minutes.. Go over or under then points come off..
Me on Stage for 6 minutes talking about something inspirational? LOL
I swear to god there were some people with tears in their eyes at the end.. I saw them...It's not fair...I love that stuff

I was an Art Major, so I only had 1 or 2 "book" classes per semester. It wasn't hard to get at least a "B" in them. I took , think 5, sem of Philosophy --2 of them were Logic. I enjoyed it. I don't remember much.

I think the most useful thing I learned in Logic was that a statement must be both logical and sound to be valid.

Took 2 sem of a great Bio class for non-majors. Really has helped with all the changes in medical science.

Most everyone had to take one or both elective classes we called "marriage" and "sex". Part of the "sex" class was that you had to write an autobiography of your sex life. I figured NO one needed to read my private information, so I took "marriage."

336 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:03:29pm

re: #335 ggt

Most everyone had to take one or both elective classes we called "marriage" and "sex". Part of the "sex" class was that you had to write an autobiography of your sex life. I figured NO one needed to read my private information, so I took "marriage."

I suspect one of them ended up writing a New York Times Bestseller or something.

337 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:04:57pm

re: #336 laZardo

I suspect one of them ended up writing a New York Times Bestseller or something.

I really couldn't imagine writing this stuff and then letting a Prof or Grad Student (TA) read it. I guess I don't trust that they'd keep it confidential--like a psychologist would. People did it tho.

338 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:05:00pm

re: #327 Atlas Fails

This second Radiohead is a little better than their first, imo. Any recommendations as far as all-time favorites from them?

Do a search on Youtube for 'Radiohead live from the Basement.' That gets them live in the studio playing a lot of really good songs, perfect unsloppy bliss.

OK Computer and Hail to the Thief are good CD's to buy. Don't go to Amnesiac or Kid A, you might get ruined. Those are much better after you're in the Cult.

In Rainbows and Hail to the Thief are awesome too. It's really hard to pick a favorite or say there's a best album.

339 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:07:33pm

re: #335 ggt

I was an Art Major, so I only had 1 or 2 "book" classes per semester. It wasn't hard to get at least a "B" in them. I took , think 5, sem of Philosophy --2 of them were Logic. I enjoyed it. I don't remember much.

I think the most useful thing I learned in Logic was that a statement must be both logical and sound to be valid.

Took 2 sem of a great Bio class for non-majors. Really has helped with all the changes in medical science.

I slide through College but I enjoyed it so much...I do regret not doing more challenging studies or taking advantage of those days.. I blame youth.
I got 4 hours tutor credits every week for my Scholarship and rarely bothered going except for finals..4 freaking hours a week.. :)

340 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:08:20pm

re: #337 ggt

I really couldn't imagine writing this stuff and then letting a Prof or Grad Student (TA) read it. I guess I don't trust that they'd keep it confidential--like a psychologist would. People did it tho.

The virgins got easy A's, I'd guess. XD

Or insta-flunked.

341 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:10:32pm

re: #333 HoosierHoops

Rumors are it's more serious than people think.. He won't be back this year

I've other rumors, but I'm not going to spread them. I don't like rumor mill gossip, as I've seen it hurt people.

342 Lidane  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:10:48pm

re: #338 BigPapa

Don't go to Amnesiac or Kid A, you might get ruined. Those are much better after you're in the Cult.

This is true. Much as I love Amnesiac, both that album and Kid A are a definite left turn for them and marked a change in their sound from what had come before.

343 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:16:04pm

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

I've other rumors, but I'm not going to spread them. I don't like rumor mill gossip, as I've seen it hurt people.

This is sports rumors.. Completely different from other rumors or gossip..
It's all fair...:)
Remember when I spread that rumor years ago about why the Pats signed Randy Moss several years ago? A guy that knew a guy that was a friend of a guy that knew the reporter who told a guy..
That Randy ran a 4.37/40 down in Florida for a scout and they signed his ass the next day.. I guess that's how the Pats Roll.. Well that's what I hear
/

344 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:17:34pm

re: #333 HoosierHoops

Rumors are it's more serious than people think.. He won't be back this year

I heard he passed out at 31 flavors last night.

345 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:22:56pm

re: #344 goddamnedfrank

I heard he passed out at 31 flavors last night.

I don't get it.

346 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:25:31pm

re: #345 Dark_Falcon

I don't get it.

Trash talk..He only started the 2nd most football games of all time.. That's everybody in history.. Get an injury and they will effen kick you while down

347 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:26:47pm

re: #345 Dark_Falcon

I don't get it.

re: #343 HoosierHoops

A guy that knew a guy that was a friend of a guy that knew the reporter who told a guy..

348 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:27:17pm

re: #340 laZardo

The virgins got easy A's, I'd guess. XD

Or insta-flunked.

No, you had to start from childhood --fantasies, masterbation --everything.

349 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:28:48pm

re: #347 goddamnedfrank

re: #343 HoosierHoops

Houston..We have a linkage problem..
/

350 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:30:06pm

re: #347 goddamnedfrank

re: #343 HoosierHoops

And it's a John Hughes 'Chicago area' movie, too, which means that Frank just PWNed me.

351 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:30:36pm

re: #350 Dark_Falcon

And it's a John Hughes 'Chicago area' movie, too, which means that Frank just PWNed me.

Is that better than being RickRolled?

352 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:33:11pm

re: #349 HoosierHoops

Houston..We have a linkage problem..
/

Yeah, I don't get why the video didn't replace the URL as usual, maybe because it wasn't at the end.

353 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:34:11pm

re: #351 ggt

Is that better than being RickRolled?

Worse. Anyone can be Rickrolled, but for a Chicagoan to get stumped by an out-of-towner like that is embarrassing.

354 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:38:55pm

So after watching It's always Sunny in Philadelphia for a couple of hours I'm not sure what to think..I think it's on all night and I've never seen it before.. So far.. Some of it is really dumb and some parts are funner than heck.. OK when they had the bar in Philly that was doing great and they didn't know it was the most popular guy bar in Philly? Now that was funny.. Cutting edge comedy gold.. So far even though sometimes its really funny.. I just give it a c+..

355 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 10:42:29pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Worse. Anyone can be Rickrolled, but for a Chicagoan to get stumped by an out-of-towner like that is embarrassing.

Hey, it happens.

356 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:09:21pm

sorry for going off topic, but has anyone been following the protests turned ugly on Wall Street? Reports say that 80 to 100 have been arrested.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

357 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:09:49pm

NIght all!

sleep well.

358 tshinkle  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:11:02pm

Can I play too?

1. Since the globe hasn't warmed in several years then we shouldn't fundamentally change the US economy
2. Our totalitarian instincts say we must do whatever we can to fundamentally change the US economy
3. We need to change the verbiage from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" so even if the world cools instead of warms we still get to be right and control the economy.

359 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:13:00pm

re: #356 boxhead

Yeah, what was that about it's not like the Arab Spring?

360 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:13:26pm

re: #358 tshinkle

Sounds like something a very cynical person would say. I know very few people who believe in AGW who think that way.

361 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:16:20pm

re: #359 laZardo

Yeah, what was that about it's not like the Arab Spring?

More like USA Fall. Pun hopefully not prophetic. But I do not understand why MSM and the internet has been silent. Am I making this out to be more than it is? I don't think i am.

362 lostlakehiker  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:17:46pm

re: #1 Charles

The smarter GOP politicians probably see the illogicality of their anti-science positions, and are cynically pandering to the unwashed right wing masses.

But I think some of the current crop of clowns really are as dim as they portray on television. Perry, Bachmann, Santorum -- these aren't anyone's idea of intellectuals.

The real problem is that such a large portion of the American public doesn't understand the simple logic you outlined, and is in reactionary/rejection mode on issues like climate change -- and it's largely because of well-funded propaganda campaigns by powerful corporations, who have their own logic based solely on profitability.

Same thing played out with respect to "Fair Housing". An emotional objective, getting people into houses, trumped reason and tradition that dictated loans should not be written to borrowers who stand little chance of making their payments.


In the name of helping the poor and minorities, both were shafted royally and on top of that, the rest of the economy took a huge hit. For details, see the book by a couple of New York Times liberals, Reckless Endangerment.

363 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:18:33pm

re: #358 tshinkle

Can I play too?

1. Since the globe hasn't warmed in several years then we shouldn't fundamentally change the US economy
2. Our totalitarian instincts say we must do whatever we can to fundamentally change the US economy
3. We need to change the verbiage from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" so even if the world cools instead of warms we still get to be right and control the economy.

Developing new energy technologies is a good thing. USA not needing to rely on outside energy is a very worthy goal.

364 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:19:06pm

re: #359 laZardo

Yeah, what was that about it's not like the Arab Spring?

The difference is that in New York the yahoos tend to go away after the police start throwing nets over them. Their numbers are also small enough that if they step severely over the line they'll simply be arrested by a 'blue flood' of cops. The Cairo police didn't have ComStat nor the NYPD's monitoring of social networks.

365 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:19:56pm

re: #361 boxhead

Arab Spring, Zionist Summer (Tel Aviv), American Autumn...

...New Winter of Discontent?

366 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:20:15pm

re: #362 lostlakehiker

Same thing played out with respect to "Fair Housing". An emotional objective, getting people into houses, trumped reason and tradition that dictated loans should not be written to borrowers who stand little chance of making their payments.

In the name of helping the poor and minorities, both were shafted royally and on top of that, the rest of the economy took a huge hit. For details, see the book by a couple of New York Times liberals, Reckless Endangerment.

Exactly. That was the biggest factor in the housing crisis and it has yet to be really resolved.

367 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:20:58pm

re: #364 Dark_Falcon

The difference is that in New York the yahoos tend to go away after the police start throwing nets over them. Their numbers are also small enough that if they step severely over the line they'll simply be arrested by a 'blue flood' of cops. The Cairo police didn't have ComStat nor the NYPD's monitoring of social networks.

Why yahoos, and why is the response by NYPD not reviled? Really, netting people and then macing them?

368 lostlakehiker  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:21:31pm

re: #358 tshinkle

Can I play too?

1. Since the globe hasn't warmed in several years then we shouldn't fundamentally change the US economy
2. Our totalitarian instincts say we must do whatever we can to fundamentally change the US economy
3. We need to change the verbiage from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" so even if the world cools instead of warms we still get to be right and control the economy.

Guess what. Even stacked dice will occasionally grant the player a short run of unusual luck. But in this case, we now even know the mechanism. There are currents that exchange deep ocean water with surface water. For the last decade, roughly, these currents have been quietly exchanging hot surface water for cold deep water. The average temperature of the ocean was rising, but surface temperatures were not, at least, not much. But that process can only run so long. Now, we're back to real warming, with record hot summers recorded across much of the country and record low arctic sea ice extent at the end of the summer melting season. So your case fails doubly.

369 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:22:41pm

re: #364 Dark_Falcon

I guess I'm having some of that schizophrenic-schadenfreude right now. On the one hand I like that they're standing up for their rights etc. on the other I'm like that fairly large portion of users on 4chan that's all "LOL U GETTIN PARTYV&".

Note: No NSFW graphics, but contains gratuitous meme-slurring.

370 Kragar  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:24:43pm

I sense someone is confused on the difference between climate and weather.

371 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:25:34pm

re: #369 laZardo

I guess I'm having some of that schizophrenic-schadenfreude right now. On the one hand I like that they're standing up for their rights etc. on the other I'm like that fairly large portion of users on 4chan that's all "LOL U GETTIN PARTYV&".

Are these protesters who have been out there for eight days peacefully part of 4chan style anarchists? I did not get that from what little information I have found.

372 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:27:54pm

re: #367 boxhead

Why yahoos, and why is the response by NYPD not reviled? Really, netting people and then macing them?

To answer the second, macing after netting is not automatic. It's used when those being arrested remain combative. The nets themselves are used to more easily control detainees, and avoid officer injuries from a more individual process. The sight of part of a crowd being netted also scares other parts of the crowd and helps disperse it. It's a dominance tactic.

Yahoos is a thing I call protestors I don't like.

373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:33:51pm

re: #372 Dark_Falcon

Yahoos is a thing I call protestors I don't like.

Conservative confederates are yahoos.

Dumb, stupid yahoos, to boot.

374 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:35:57pm

re: #367 boxhead

Really, netting people and then macing them?

So long as it's not happening to them, conservative sociopaths are in love with the idea.

Watch their story change once it happens to them.

You can tell this ahole did not grow up Black and male.

375 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:36:34pm

re: #372 Dark_Falcon

To answer the second, macing after netting is not automatic. It's used when those being arrested remain combative. The nets themselves are used to more easily control detainees, and avoid officer injuries from a more individual process. The sight of part of a crowd being netted also scares other parts of the crowd and helps disperse it. It's a dominance tactic.

And that is acceptable behavior by police in USA? I'd say no.

Yahoos is a thing I call protestors I don't like.

Protesting against the culture of greed by large financial institutions arguably responsible for the decline of the American middle class seems honorable. If the protesters claims are wholly unfounded, then I would agree that yohooness can be applied. I guess I hold the belief that there are legitimate grievances that need to be addressed.

376 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:38:46pm

re: #371 boxhead

Are these protesters who have been out there for eight days peacefully part of 4chan style anarchists? I did not get that from what little information I have found.

I'm told they're a bit of a motley assortment, and I do agree that they are voicing legitimate grievances. Various "Anon" groups support them, too.

377 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:39:06pm

re: #362 lostlakehiker

No, the meltdown was not caused by loaning to the poor and minorities.

God why won't that stupid fucking tired meme die.

378 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:39:36pm

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. That was the biggest factor in the housing crisis and it has yet to be really resolved.

Please stop spreading this lie.

379 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:40:08pm

re: #359 laZardo

Yeah, what was that about it's not like the Arab Spring?

Well, it's not like the Arab Spring.

This is like the Arab Spring, not a Saturday afternoon protest on Wall Street in 2011.

380 bratwurst  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:41:16pm

re: #358 tshinkle

Are you running for the GOP nomination or attempting to fill in for Rush Limbaugh when he is off playing golf? You seem to be qualified in either case.

381 tshinkle  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:41:24pm

To lostlakehiker,

Everyone has opinions, but we must all start from the truth or discussion is pointless. The low levels of Arctic sea ice occurred in Sep 2007 causing the panic of some who believed Arctic sea ice would completely disappear by today. In reality, the sea ice has increased by more than 200,000 square miles since 2007 in complete defiance of all the computer models that are being relied upon by the AGW crowd.

Nobody is against developing efficient and inexpensive energy. That's what Rockefeller did at the turn of the last century and it created a middle class standard of living that was unique to world history.

However a lot of concerned people are against damaging an already poor economy for "science" that is far from "settled". The pain and suffering being experienced by so many millions of people who cannot find work needs to be balanced into the equation somehow.

382 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:41:35pm

re: #220 albusteve

I don't need to talk it to death with morality bullshit

And yet:

a question I've asked a hundred times to little avail

Albusisyphus?

your impersonation is weak

That's odd, since I didn't do one.

383 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:41:45pm

re: #379 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So it is or isn't? Because that's exactly what was happening in boxhead's #356.

384 tshinkle  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:42:19pm

re: #377 Obdicut

but it was caused by loaning money to people who didn't (couldn't?) pay it back.

385 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:42:56pm

re: #375 boxhead

And that is acceptable behavior by police in USA? I'd say no.

Actually, in New York it is acceptable. The NYPD used these same sorts of tactics on protestors at the GOP convention in 2004. Some people made noises about it but nothing happened of any substance. NYC does not want riots, and since Ed Koch the citizens have been willing to let the NYPD do want it thinks needs to be done to curb them. The NYPD has always favor a 'large, fast, and aggressive" response to out-of-control protestors. And its tactics work.

386 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:43:40pm

re: #375 boxhead

And that is acceptable behavior by police in USA? I'd say no.

To pablum-fed, thought-stopped conservatives, ever case where police act to protect in the service of their unearned privileges is acceptable. This is why they clammor for states rights, at the tax-paid expense of the rest of us.

They have behaved this way from time imemoriam to the present. This is why they h-a-t-e-d anti-lynch laws and refused to enact them, for instance, because they have a visceral, overemotional reaction to the idea of Blacks committing the same crime a white does.

The have dhimmitude mentality.

So, yeah. /

387 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:43:49pm

re: #379 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, it's not like the Arab Spring.

This is like the Arab Spring, not a Saturday afternoon protest on Wall Street in 2011.

This is the Springtime I like...

//

388 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:44:12pm

re: #384 tshinkle

Sorry, I'm going to bed and have no patience in dealing with someone at the level of a AGW-denier.

389 tshinkle  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:47:05pm

re: #388 Obdicut

Sounds religious...don't forget to say your prayers. G'night.

390 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:47:14pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

Actually, in New York it is acceptable. The NYPD used these same sorts of tactics on protestors at the GOP convention in 2004. Some people made noises about it but nothing happened of any substance. NYC does not want riots, and since Ed Koch the citizens have been willing to let the NYPD do want it thinks needs to be done to curb them. The NYPD has always favor a 'large, fast, and aggressive" response to out-of-control protestors. And its tactics work.

But from what I have read, these protesters have been out there for eight days with no reports of civil disorder. What changed today?

391 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:47:16pm

re: #226 prononymous

What's to be done...

Leninist!

The solution is to put a barrier between moneyed interests and the government to avoid collusion.

But there is no solution for that. Even if you mandated poverty for politicians, they could still let bribes get passed to their families. And you cannot isolate families strictly enough to effectively enforce poverty for specific families. And if you just let people without families be politicians, then I'm afraid you would have politicians that do not share what is a basic experience of their constituency.

And to implement an independent bureau within the government that is tasked with finding corruption and wastefulness and that has the power to compel changes.

I am guessing that the "independent" attribute is supposed to prevent the bureau from becoming corrupt and wasteful itself. I am not seeing, however, how that "independent" attribute would prevent the iron law of oligarchy to become applicable.

392 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:47:25pm

re: #385 Dark_Falcon

And its tactics work.

It's tactics only work to vindicate weak conservatives with vindication fantasies.

The protests are no Arab Spring. The protesters also aren't harming any blood-fetish conservatives, except in theory only.

They're just protests.

393 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:48:34pm

re: #383 laZardo

So it is or isn't?

No, it isn't.

Do you know what Selma was? That's where that picture was from.

394 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:49:56pm

re: #386 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

To pablum-fed, thought-stopped conservatives, ever case where police act to protect in the service of their unearned privileges is acceptable. This is why they clammor for states rights, at the tax-paid expense of the rest of us.

They have behaved this way from time imemoriam to the present. This is why they h-a-t-e-d anti-lynch laws and refused to enact them, for instance, because they have a visceral, overemotional reaction to the idea of Blacks committing the same crime a white does.

The have dhimmitude mentality.

So, yeah. /

Don't tie post-WWII conservatism to those who refused to pass anti-lynching laws in the 1920's. It's a very different thing politically and devoted to freedom, not repression.

395 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:50:23pm

re: #390 boxhead

But from what I have read, these protesters have been out there for eight days with no reports of civil disorder. What changed today?

Cons like DF think anyone who has something contrary to say against conservative policies should be locked up as to not cause them any cognitive dissonance. In that regard, absolutely nothing has changed, today.

396 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:51:56pm

re: #392 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Your refusal to credit conservatives with any positive qualities whatsoever is both predictable and tedious.

Good night, all.

397 laZardo  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:52:29pm

re: #392 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Bloody Sunday.

Though I'm wondering how you say it isn't like the Arab Spring, because the Egyptians and Tunisians weren't out deliberately trying to harm anyone even in self-defense. Certainly not the Bahraini.

398 boxhead  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:53:04pm

re: #395 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Cons like DF think anyone who has something contrary to say against conservative policies should be locked up as to not cause them any cognitive dissonance. In that regard, absolutely nothing has changed, today.

No, I am betting that what DF has heard/read is that the protestors started it. Again, due to lack of coverage, details are sketchy. But the simple fact that the protestors were peaceful for eight day should support the claims that the NYPD was at fault.

399 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:53:43pm

re: #395 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

One last downding before I go to bed for putting words in my mouth and ascribing to me positions that you know I do not hold.

You ma'am, are a liar.

400 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:54:39pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

Don't tie post-WWII conservatism to those who refused to pass anti-lynching laws in the 1920's.

Lol what would you know about anti-lynching laws?

Do you really think it was limited to just the 20s?

It's a very different thing politically and devoted to freedom, not repression.

No, it isn't -- cons care only about repression of freedom via states rights, not devotion to it.

The anti-crime mentality is identical to the anti-lynch law mentality of 100 years ago, and I've seen you espouse those exact same ignorant, race-hysterical, authoritarian, majoritarian-supremacist views.

You are out of your league on this topic.

401 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:55:25pm

re: #397 laZardo

Bloody Sunday.

Though I'm wondering how you say it isn't like the Arab Spring, because the Egyptians and Tunisians weren't out deliberately trying to harm anyone even in self-defense. Certainly not the Bahraini.

I guess I'll have to stay up for a short time yet.

This isn't like Bloody Sunday at all (I assume you mean the one on Northern Ireland). No shots were fired by the NYPD and no one died.

402 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:55:51pm

re: #310 ggt

I took 2 semesters of logic in college (I know it's difficult to tell). I didn't have a problem in class and made good grades because I thought it all made sense. I was "duh".

I still have a hard time understand that people don't get it. One doesn't have to be able to articulate to a Professor the why's and what for's to call BS.

Yeah… logics classes should be mandatory in high school. Or maybe even elementary school.

403 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:56:22pm

re: #400 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Horseshit and lies. Unworthy of my time rebutting them.

Goodnight!

404 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:56:55pm

re: #397 laZardo

Bloody Sunday.

Though I'm wondering how you say it isn't like the Arab Spring, because the Egyptians and Tunisians weren't out deliberately trying to harm anyone even in self-defense. Certainly not the Bahraini.

I would say there is no need for the protesters to compare themselves to anyone, let alone Arab Spring.

We've had parallels to Arab Spring here, against conservative states rights. The Wall Street protesters aren't it.

405 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:59:22pm

re: #403 Dark_Falcon

Horseshit and lies.

Butthurt and resentment.

Unworthy of my time rebutting them.

Goodnight!

If you thought your anti-Black ideas would stand up to even the faintest scrutiny, let alone the scrunity of a nobody on the internet like me, you'd at least have the integrity of offering an Eric Cantor mealy-mouthed defense.

406 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:03:51am

re: #335 ggt

I think the most useful thing I learned in Logic was that a statement must be both logical and sound to be valid.

Uh, what? No, it doesn't. Validity is a neccessary requirement for soundness, not the other way around. Something can be perfectly valid and yet unsound, but nothing can be sound and invalid.

407 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:04:22am

re: #399 Dark_Falcon

One last downding before I go to bed for putting words in my mouth and ascribing to me positions that you know I do not hold.

You ma'am, are a liar.

The only reason you are running away is because you know the anti-Black/criminality ideas you espouse. Shall I quote you to yourself, or shall I spare you?

408 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:04:32am

i feel like i stepped in it today - i denigrated an opinion sarcastically before realizing that some nice people had just ascribed to it

:-(

409 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:08:06am

re: #401 Dark_Falcon

I guess I'll have to stay up for a short time yet.

This isn't like Bloody Sunday at all (I assume you mean the one on Northern Ireland). No shots were fired by the NYPD and no one died.

But, it appears civil Rights were denied...

410 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:08:19am

re: #398 boxhead

No, I am betting that what DF has heard/read is that the protestors started it.

That, and they deserve what they get.

Conservatives have been promoting the same view since the frickin Nat Turner rebellion.

Again, due to lack of coverage, details are sketchy. But the simple fact that the protestors were peaceful for eight day should support the claims that the NYPD was at fault.

The only objection I really have is to them comparing themselves to Arab Spring when their initial protest was on a Saturday. Going to the Wall Street district (any city's financial district, really) on a Saturday or Sunday is like holding a picket at the mall at 1AM.

411 laZardo  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:10:04am

re: #410 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Uh, they've been there for eight days. That includes the weekdays?

412 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:10:37am

re: #411 laZardo

Uh, they've been there for eight days. That includes the weekdays?

lol.. not sure if they were eight business days or not... :p

413 freetoken  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:11:45am
414 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:12:14am

re: #401 Dark_Falcon

This isn't like Bloody Sunday at all (I assume you mean the one on Northern Ireland).

This is precisely why you have no business whatsoever commenting on anti-lynch law. You have no idea what you're even referencing.

How can you not recognize a picture from our own Bloody Sunday? The guy in the photo is rather infamous. How much easier must I make it?

415 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:13:21am

re: #410 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That, and they deserve what they get.

I was trying to be generous to DF. Like I said, there has been no evidence, "yet", that the protesters acted out of line.

Conservatives have been promoting the same view since the frickin Nat Turner rebellion.

The only objection I really have is to them comparing themselves to Arab Spring when their initial protest was on a Saturday. Going to the Wall Street district (any city's financial district, really) on a Saturday or Sunday is like holding a picket at the mall at 1AM.

Last weekend this was started.

416 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:14:19am

re: #411 laZardo

Uh, they've been there for eight days. That includes the weekdays?

I did say "their initial protest".

They're not under threat of murder like in Arab Spring, or any of the protests to overthrow white conservative states rights bigots. I don't think they should be comparing themselves to Arab Spring.

417 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:16:15am

re: #416 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I did say "their initial protest".

They're not under threat of murder like in Arab Spring, or any of the protests to overthrow white conservative states rights bigots. I don't think they should be comparing themselves to Arab Spring.

Maybe you are correct, but the comparison was not overly egregious.

418 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:17:57am

re: #384 tshinkle

but it was caused by loaning money to people who didn't (couldn't?) pay it back.

no

many people default on loans all the time and always have

the meltdown was caused by the fact that the shaky loans were packaged up as big money securities instruments that were supposed to yield big profits, and many supposedly smart bank and pension fund managers invested large amounts of pension fund and other investor money in them

419 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:18:10am

re: #415 boxhead

I was trying to be generous to DF. Like I said, there has been no evidence, "yet", that the protesters acted out of line.

Last weekend this was started.

I would just suggest they find another metaphor. If they were protesting corrupt government like Arab Spring, they'd be at the state house. Instead they're at Wall Street.

And unlike DF, I don't reflexively think they deserve what they get, just because I have some butch top fetish for watching state power crush protesters. They're not deserving what they are getting.

But they are also not Arab Spring or anything approximating it either, afaic.

420 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:18:39am

re: #407 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

"the anti-Black/criminality ideas you espouse. Shall I quote you to yourself, or shall I spare you?"

If you make such a serious charge, you should always back it up IMHO (or not mention it).

421 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:22:30am

re: #419 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would just suggest they find another metaphor. If they were protesting corrupt government like Arab Spring, they'd be at the state house. Instead they're at Wall Street.

And unlike DF, I don't reflexively think they deserve what they get, just because I have some butch top fetish for watching state power crush protesters. They're not deserving what they are getting.

But they are also not Arab Spring or anything approximating it either, afaic.

Ok... but I do not think I used Arab Spring to describe this event. I did post a fine link to The Producers, Springtime for Hitler and Germany... :)

422 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:22:42am

re: #417 boxhead

Maybe you are correct, but the comparison was not overly egregious.

I think it's just needless.

Imo, it's along the same lines, on a smaller scale, of flotilla dorks claiming to be "Freedom Riders". Sorry for the impatience, but I get very tired of those kinds of analogies.

423 laZardo  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:23:39am

re: #416 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I did say "their initial protest".

They're not under threat of murder like in Arab Spring, or any of the protests to overthrow white conservative states rights bigots. I don't think they should be comparing themselves to Arab Spring.

I don't think that the Egyptians or Tunisians were there under the threat of immediate murder. Bahraini and Libyans, definitely.

Still, this might just be the start under the police state we're living in.

424 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:24:09am

re: #421 boxhead

Ok... but I do not think I used Arab Spring to describe this event. I did post a fine link to The Producers, Springtime for Hitler and Germany... :)

Yeah, I said I "suggest THEY find another metaphor". I didn't mean you. I saw your link, and did understood the humor.

425 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:26:20am

re: #423 laZardo

I don't think that the Egyptians or Tunisians were there under the threat of immediate murder. Bahraini and Libyans, maybe.

Still, this might just be the start under the police state we're living in.

Oh, no...I believe our police state started long long long before this. That's all states rights rule is, is a police state.

426 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:26:39am

re: #424 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

cool.... Being able to have nuanced ideas is vital to civil debate. Alas, it is rather lacking in USA's political debates.

427 laZardo  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:26:46am

Fuck, I'm gonna go to bed.

I expect this to be my de facto alarm clock in a few hours.

428 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:27:11am

re: #427 laZardo

Fuck, I'm gonna go to bed.

I expect this to be my de facto alarm clock in a few hours.

nite

429 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:29:07am

re: #425 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, no...I believe our police state started long long long before this. That's all states rights rule is, is a police state.

hmmm, I believe there is much merit in the 10th Amendment. But with the understanding that Civil Liberties are under the protection of the US Constitution.

430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:30:05am

re: #426 boxhead

Lol proper grammer and PIMF helpz, two.

"I did understood"... smh at myself.

431 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:31:46am

re: #430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol proper grammer and PIMF helpz, two.

"I did understood"... smh at myself.

and, of course, having a functioning sarcasm detector.. :)

432 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:34:03am

re: #429 boxhead

hmmm, I believe there is much merit in the 10th Amendment. But with the understanding that Civil Liberties are under the protection of the US Constitution.

There's nothing wrong with 10th Amendment, or state autonomy within a federation. Especially in a place as geographically huge as the US.

But conservative confederates distorted states rights to mean special rights for whites. For everyone else, this means a police state. That's all Jim Crow was, is a police state (physically violent de-legitimation) against every non conformist who didn't want to live under their rule.

433 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:35:33am

re: #378 Obdicut

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. That was the biggest factor in the housing crisis and it has yet to be really resolved.

Please stop spreading this lie.

re: #377 Obdicut

No, the meltdown was not caused by loaning to the poor and minorities.

God why won't that stupid fucking tired meme die.

Even though loaning to poor people and minorities did not cause the meldown, the crisis of the subprime mortgage market was an integral part of the credit crisis, was it not? Of course even more fundamental was the fact that everyone involved in the financial schemes was treating obligations as assets… (helped by the fact that some involved parties created schemes for this with completely deceptive and misleading names like "asset-backed security" or "collateralized debt obligations" in order to sell their crap) which really only banks should do and only so in connection with a lot of scrutiny as to the borrower's collateral and their own securities – but this process missing was one of the major reasons for the subprime lending market to exist in the first place.

Always worth a re-watch (subprime stuff starts getting introduced at about 6:22):

From [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

434 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:39:33am

re: #433 000G

All of this not even mentioning private banks like Countrywide having played a much bigger role in getting the crisis ball rolling than Fanny et al.

435 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:41:18am

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. That was the biggest factor in the housing crisis and it has yet to be really resolved.

States rights conservatism: when all else fails, blame the nonwhites for protesting whites-only housing policies. e_e

436 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:42:17am

re: #432 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There's nothing wrong with 10th Amendment, or state autonomy within a federation. Especially in a place as geographically huge as the US.

But conservative confederates distorted states rights to mean special rights for whites. For everyone else, this means a police state. That's all Jim Crow was, is a police state (physically violent de-legitimation) against every non conformist who didn't want to live under their rule.

Absolutely! That is why the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment is there. IT is the USA law why those Jim Crow laws were Unconstitutional.

I would go a step further and say that Jim Crow was in violation of our inalienable rights.

437 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:44:39am

re: #433 000G

Please stop spreading this lie.

re: #377 Obdicut

Even though loaning to poor people and minorities did not cause the meldown, the crisis of the subprime mortgage market was an integral part of the credit crisis, was it not? Of course even more fundamental was the fact that everyone involved in the financial schemes was treating obligations as assets… (helped by the fact that some involved parties created schemes for this with completely deceptive and misleading names like "asset-backed security" or "collateralized debt obligations" in order to sell their crap) which really only banks should do and only so in connection with a lot of scrutiny as to the borrower's collateral and their own securities – but this process missing was one of the major reasons for the subprime lending market to exist in the first place.

Always worth a re-watch (subprime stuff starts getting introduced at about 6:22):

[Video]From [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

i suspect that a smaller problem of an epidemic of subprime lending was greatly magnified by the invention of securitized mortgage instruments. the advantage of these to society is that the banks that made the original loans can sell them off and use the money to make more loans. this is also their weakness

438 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:47:45am

re: #420 Sergey Romanov

"the anti-Black/criminality ideas you espouse. Shall I quote you to yourself, or shall I spare you?"

If you make such a serious charge, you should always back it up IMHO (or not mention it).

Why would I make mention of it if I could not back it up?

As I said in a later comment in that thread, this is the foundation of anti-lynch law mentality, and current day policy that weighs Black "criminality" far heavier than white or anyone else's.

We saw a result of it, just two days ago, along with all the conservative sociopathy that accompanied the idea of the state enacting their personal revenge fantasies on citizens even when there's "reasonable doubt". In race-hysterical Conservatopia, there is no such thing as "reasonable doubt" or "innocent until proven guilty" unless it's one of their own.

439 freetoken  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:50:38am

re: #437 engineer dog

I think it is also important to keep in mind that the "financial crisis" manifested itself in 2008 after the US real estate collapse had begun.

The significant overbuilding in US real estate had outsized influence because the US economy has become so dependent upon "growth" in real estate, and the related activities in refinancing to finance other kinds of consumer purchases.

Real estate loans became too important to the financial industry, which over exaggerated the value of said "assets.

440 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:50:45am

re: #433 000G

Please stop spreading this lie.

re: #377 Obdicut

Even though loaning to poor people and minorities did not cause the meldown, the crisis of the subprime mortgage market was an integral part of the credit crisis, was it not? Of course even more fundamental was the fact that everyone involved in the financial schemes was treating obligations as assets… (helped by the fact that some involved parties created schemes for this with completely deceptive and misleading names like "asset-backed security" or "collateralized debt obligations" in order to sell their crap) which really only banks should do and only so in connection with a lot of scrutiny as to the borrower's collateral and their own securities – but this process missing was one of the major reasons for the subprime lending market to exist in the first place.

Always worth a re-watch (subprime stuff starts getting introduced at about 6:22):

[Video]From [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The problem with LLH and Dark Falcon's mythology is that they're conflating subprime loans in general with a narrower subset of Community Reinvestment Act loans that were better regulated and actually defaulted less than the national average. Obdicut is correct, their coded language about loans to the poor and minorities as having caused the problem not only doesn't hold up to actual scrutiny, it's an out and out lie. A lie that they've swallowed, digested and in all likelihood will continue to regurgitate well into the foreseeable future.

Not surprisingly given the higher degree of supervision, loans made under the CRA program were made in a more responsible way than other subprime loans. CRA loans carried lower rates than other subprime loans and were less likely to end up securitized into the mortgage-backed securities that have caused so many losses, according to a recent study by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley (PDF file here).

Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office. The CRA was at its strongest in the 1990s, under the Clinton administration, a period when subprime loans performed quite well. It was only after the Bush administration cut back on CRA enforcement that problems arose, a timing issue which should stop those blaming the law dead in their tracks. The Federal Reserve, too, did nothing but encourage the wild west of lending in recent years. It wasn’t until the middle of 2007 that the Fed decided it was time to crack down on abusive pratices in the subprime lending market. Oops.

Better targets for blame in government circles might be the 2000 law which ensured that credit default swaps would remain unregulated, the SEC’s puzzling 2004 decision to allow the largest brokerage firms to borrow upwards of 30 times their capital and that same agency’s failure to oversee those brokerage firms in subsequent years as many gorged on subprime debt.

441 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:51:23am

re: #436 boxhead

Absolutely! That is why the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment is there. IT is the USA law why those Jim Crow laws were Unconstitutional.

I would go a step further and say that Jim Crow was in violation of our inalienable rights.

Well, the people who ruled Plessy vs Ferguson (1896) would very heartily disagree with you.

The idea there was, SHUT UP you fucking 7/8 white n*****, the state making you pay full fare while forcing you to the back of the train is indeed Constitutional, SO SHUT UP!!

And so it was the law of the land, for 5 decades, thanks to states rights conservatives.

442 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:51:40am

re: #438 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

> Why would I make mention of it if I could not back it up?

I don't presume anyone here is infallible. My comment stands, take it for what it's worth, or don't.

443 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:52:59am
444 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:55:07am

re: #438 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That Troy Davis was executed, to me, shows that this is still a HUGE problem. Really USA?! Can't put that barbaric act into the trash bin of history?

445 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:55:11am

re: #442 Sergey Romanov

> Why would I make mention of it if I could not back it up?

I don't presume anyone here is infallible. My comment stands, take it for what it's worth, or don't.

As does mine.

446 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:55:21am

re: #423 laZardo

I don't think that the Egyptians or Tunisians were there under the threat of immediate murder.

Then you weren't paying attention.

[Link: globalvoicesonline.org...]

[Link: www.thenational.ae...]

True, the situation never was as dire as in Libya or Syria and Yemen (Bahrain is a whole nother basket of worms). But people did die for standing up for the freedom of the people.

447 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:55:21am

re: #443 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Thank you.

448 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:57:15am

re: #444 boxhead

That Troy Davis was executed, to me, shows that this is still a HUGE problem. Really USA?! Can't put that barbaric act into the trash bin of history?

We are living in an era where paulbot conservatives will cheer, on camera, the idea of someone without health insurance dying because they cannot afford the medical bills.

Soon, that will be their parents, whose medical expenses they will not be able to cover, even with Medicare and what pensions are left.

These are some of the most self-loathing people on planet earth.

449 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:57:28am

re: #447 Sergey Romanov

Thank you.

That link doesn't back up her accusations here in the context of talking about DF's statements on the police action, however.

450 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 12:58:33am

re: #441 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, the people who ruled Plessy vs Ferguson (1896) would very heartily disagree with you.

The idea there was, SHUT UP you fucking 7/8 white n*****, the state making you pay full fare while forcing you to the back of the train is indeed Constitutional, SO SHUT UP!!

And so it was the law of the land, for 5 decades, thanks to states rights conservatives.

They were wrong... The courts allowed the 14th Amendment to be misinterpreted. We are getting better. Or were.... Hard to have faith in the legal system when travesties occur far too often.

451 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:01:00am

re: #439 freetoken

I think it is also important to keep in mind that the "financial crisis" manifested itself in 2008 after the US real estate collapse had begun.

The significant overbuilding in US real estate had outsized influence because the US economy has become so dependent upon "growth" in real estate, and the related activities in refinancing to finance other kinds of consumer purchases.

Real estate loans became too important to the financial industry, which over exaggerated the value of said "assets.

the need for growth and the treatment of everything as an investment has distorted the whole economy

our population continues to expand, so it there isn't a certain amount of growth then unemployment goes up. the dynamic is different in italy where the population is stable

and of course we have all heard about the phenomenon of making money by "flipping" houses

i have a naive idea that it would be nice to have an economy restricted to people getting paid to do things and buying and selling tangible things that people need, without all the gambling

452 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:02:13am

re: #437 engineer dog

i suspect that a smaller problem of an epidemic of subprime lending was greatly magnified by the invention of securitized mortgage instruments. the advantage of these to society is that the banks that made the original loans can sell them off and use the money to make more loans. this is also their weakness

Even the name is wrong. "Securitized" my ass. Just a sales-trick, because nobody would buy crap that would appropriately be called "Insufficiently Collateralized Debt Obligations".

This whole process of misleading investment schemes being conflated with traditional low-profile lending businesses, of course, also points to the repeal of Glass-Steagal...

453 boxhead  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:04:24am

nite all.... fun ranting... :)

454 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:05:11am

re: #453 boxhead

nite all... fun ranting... :)

nite

don't we get to rave as well???

455 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:05:50am

re: #439 freetoken

I think it is also important to keep in mind that the "financial crisis" manifested itself in 2008 after the US real estate collapse had begun.

The significant overbuilding in US real estate had outsized influence because the US economy has become so dependent upon "growth" in real estate, and the related activities in refinancing to finance other kinds of consumer purchases.

Real estate loans became too important to the financial industry, which over exaggerated the value of said "assets.

But that was pretty much unavoidable. Real estate titles and even more so the titles for the property the real estate is located on are traditionally the most secure forms of property titles. As such, they are intrinsically important for making up the asset base that most loans are backed up with. And this is why fucking with that market through financial shenanigans had inevitably atrocious effects.

I still cannot believe that there aren't a lot more people in jail over this.

456 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:06:46am

re: #449 000G

That link doesn't back up her accusations here in the context of talking about DF's statements on the police action, however.

If there were any accusations, they were in response to this ahistorical nonsense by DF on "lynch law of the 20s", as if he knows jack sprat about that topic.

The views he himself espouses are the same Birth of A Nation Black-criminality views that justified not passing lynch law then, and disproportionate sentencing and death penalties today.

457 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:08:38am

re: #440 goddamnedfrank

The problem with LLH and Dark Falcon's mythology is that they're conflating subprime loans in general with a narrower subset of Community Reinvestment Act loans that were better regulated and actually defaulted less than the national average. Obdicut is correct, their coded language about loans to the poor and minorities as having caused the problem not only doesn't hold up to actual scrutiny, it's an out and out lie. A lie that they've swallowed, digested and in all likelihood will continue to regurgitate well into the foreseeable future.

Not surprisingly given the higher degree of supervision, loans made under the CRA program were made in a more responsible way than other subprime loans. CRA loans carried lower rates than other subprime loans and were less likely to end up securitized into the mortgage-backed securities that have caused so many losses, according to a recent study by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley (PDF file here).

Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office. The CRA was at its strongest in the 1990s, under the Clinton administration, a period when subprime loans performed quite well. It was only after the Bush administration cut back on CRA enforcement that problems arose, a timing issue which should stop those blaming the law dead in their tracks. The Federal Reserve, too, did nothing but encourage the wild west of lending in recent years. It wasn’t until the middle of 2007 that the Fed decided it was time to crack down on abusive pratices in the subprime lending market. Oops.

Better targets for blame in government circles might be the 2000 law which ensured that credit default swaps would remain unregulated, the SEC’s puzzling 2004 decision to allow the largest brokerage firms to borrow upwards of 30 times their capital and that same agency’s failure to oversee those brokerage firms in subsequent years as many gorged on subprime debt.

Very good points, worth repeating until they are hammered home (let's hope).

458 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:08:42am

re: #455 000G

But that was pretty much unavoidable. Real estate and even more so the property they are located on are traditionally the most secure forms of property titles. As such, they are intrinsically important for making up the asset base that most loans are backed up with. And this is why fucking with that market through financial shenanigans had inevitably atrocious effects.

I still cannot believe that there aren't a lot more people in jail over this.

i'm still amazed that they could tell congress "we have severely damaged the economy of the entire world through stupidity and carelessness. you will give us 800 billion dollars or we will shoot your dog"

459 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:12:27am

re: #456 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If there were any accusations, they were in response to this ahistorical nonsense by DF on "lynch law of the 20s", as if he knows jack sprat about that topic.

The views he himself espouses are the same Birth of A Nation Black-criminality views that justified not passing lynch law then, and disproportionate sentencing and death penalties today.

I don't think the jump from accusation of ignorance to accusation of propagating racism is justified.

460 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:13:19am

re: #450 boxhead

They were wrong... The courts allowed the 14th Amendment to be misinterpreted. We are getting better. Or were... Hard to have faith in the legal system when travesties occur far too often.

They might have been wrong in the abstract, but theirs was the prevailing view. That is what states rights is...the "right" of the states to harass whomever it wants, and take their tax money to do so.

It's classic Bat Ye'or definition of dhimmitude.

The SCOUTS ruled in favor of it, and did not reverse itself until Brown vs Board of Education (1954) , which mandated equal public education, and the end of whites-get-the-best public schools.

Lol and it goes without saying how the conservative states rights confederates reacted to that...

461 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:14:28am

coded language about loans to the poor and minorities

the verdict on the crisis according to wingnut sites i have read is that the recession was caused by "unqualified minorities" getting loans

now, what is the purpose of including the word 'minorities' in this statement?

does it add to the financial analysis? were no non-minority people granted mortgages that they couldn't afford?

462 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:16:09am

re: #440 goddamnedfrank

re: #377 Obdicut

Even though loaning to poor people and minorities did not cause the meldown, the crisis of the subprime mortgage market was an integral part of the credit crisis, was it not? Of course even more fundamental was the fact that everyone involved in the financial schemes was treating obligations as assets… (helped by the fact that some involved parties created schemes for this with completely deceptive and misleading names like "asset-backed security" or "collateralized debt obligations" in order to sell their crap) which really only banks should do and only so in connection with a lot of scrutiny as to the borrower's collateral and their own securities – but this process missing was one of the major reasons for the subprime lending market to exist in the first place.

Always worth a re-watch (subprime stuff starts getting introduced at about 6:22):

[Video]From [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

...their coded language about loans to the poor and minorities as having caused the problem not only doesn't hold up to actual scrutiny, it's an out and out lie. A lie that they've swallowed, digested and in all likelihood will continue to regurgitate well into the foreseeable future.

Eh, when all else fails, scapegoat minorities for one's own failures. Birth of A Nation/Breivik mentality...it lives.

463 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:16:44am

re: #451 engineer dog

the need for growth and the treatment of everything as an investment has distorted the whole economy

our population continues to expand, so it there isn't a certain amount of growth then unemployment goes up. the dynamic is different in italy where the population is stable

and of course we have all heard about the phenomenon of making money by "flipping" houses

i have a naive idea that it would be nice to have an economy restricted to people getting paid to do things and buying and selling tangible things that people need, without all the gambling

Enh. Gambling is inevitable. All investment amounts to that dreadful "speculation" often blamed. Nothing wrong with trying to predict the future well enough to make profits off of it.

If you want property, you will have to accept "gambling". But that is not the same as accepting outright defrauding. Which is what happened in the meltdown.

464 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:18:16am

re: #461 engineer dog

coded language about loans to the poor and minorities

the verdict on the crisis according to wingnut sites i have read is that the recession was caused by "unqualified minorities" getting loans

now, what is the purpose of including the word 'minorities' in this statement?

does it add to the financial analysis? were no non-minority people granted mortgages that they couldn't afford?

You saying I cannot blame the blacks for the state of the economy is RACIST!!!

I could have gone to Harvard if not for THEM!

465 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:19:21am

re: #458 engineer dog

i'm still amazed that they could tell congress "we have severely damaged the economy of the entire world through stupidity and carelessness. you will give us 800 billion dollars or we will shoot your dog"

What's even more sickening is that it was clearly more than stupidity and carelessness. In some cases, it was outright criminality.

466 freetoken  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:20:13am

re: #463 000G

Yes, gambling is inevitable.

But then to tie the wagon of your financial system to such gambling is foolishness.

I do hope that the people of this country will return to the idea that the purpose of owning a residence is to reside somewhere, not to hope that inflation will appreciate the hypothetical value against which to take out loans for even bigger flat screen TVs and and cars.

467 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:20:31am

re: #463 000G

Enh. Gambling is inevitable. All investment amounts to that dreadful "speculation" often blamed.

If you want property, you will have to accept "gambling". But that is not the same as accepting outright defrauding. Which is what happened in the meltdown.

true, buying and selling, as in retail and wholesale businesses, involves gambling

468 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:23:05am

re: #465 000G

What's even more sickening is that it was clearly more than stupidity and carelessness. In some cases, it was outright criminality.

Good opportunity to point out this, btw: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Still the best part:

[P]rivately, financial service industry executives argue that the losses on the mortgage-backed securities were caused by a broader downturn in the economy and the housing market, not by how the mortgages were originated or packaged into securities. In addition, they contend that investors like A.I.G. as well as Fannie and Freddie were sophisticated and knew the securities were not without risk.

Investors fear that if banks are forced to pay out billions of dollars for mortgages that later defaulted, it could sap earnings for years and contribute to further losses across the financial services industry, which has only recently regained its footing.

Bank officials also counter that further legal attacks on them will only delay the recovery in the housing market, which remains moribund, hurting the broader economy. Other experts warned that a series of adverse settlements costing the banks billions raises other risks, even if suits have legal merit.

469 freetoken  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:27:53am

re: #468 000G

Bank officials also counter that further legal attacks on them will only delay the recovery in the housing market, which remains moribund, hurting the broader economy.

My answer to those bank "officials" is that the supply of both residential and commercial real estate is much larger than the demand because of over construction and unrealistic expectations during a boom, created in part by a fantasy-vision of what it means to be an "American".

Population increase will in time take care of the oversupply. If we have to lull about in slow moving real estate market for a few years then so be it. That's how it was in the 90's. These things happen.

470 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:28:40am

re: #466 freetoken

Yes, gambling is inevitable.

But then to tie the wagon of your financial system to such gambling is foolishness.

I do hope that the people of this country will return to the idea that the purpose of owning a residence is to reside somewhere, not to hope that inflation will appreciate the hypothetical value against which to take out loans for even bigger flat screen TVs and and cars.

I am not sure what you say makes sense. There is no way of "untieing" "the wagon of your financial system" from "gambling". Anything involving financial processes operating with property titles will involve "gambling" to a certain extent. It's when essential rules of sound lending are ignored or outright broken that shit starts going bad.

Your hope points to a pretty illusionary and AFAIK also atavistic ideal I often come across with people who get frustrated with the abstract parts of the economy: That all property only be used (and not burdened, encumbered, leased etc.) and hence be reduced to its possessory aspect. I don't think that is going to fix things.

471 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:29:47am

re: #469 freetoken

They are only afraid that their profit margins will drop or that they might even have to go to jail personally. That's all there is to their threats.

472 freetoken  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:32:52am

re: #470 000G

I do not consider taking risk to be "gambling". All of life includes risks and they are unavoidable.

By "gambling" I mean specifically the same mindset as experienced in a casino in Vegas. It is an expectation of unrealistic events.

Demand for real estate cannot grow faster than the population (in long term averages.) Buildings are constructed and land use changed in response to the needs of humans and the US is already a well built out, highly developed nation.

473 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:33:17am

re: #467 engineer dog

true, buying and selling, as in retail and wholesale businesses, involves gambling

Yup, because no two processes wherein one logically depends on the other are actually happening simultaneously. Thus, there is always the risk of default.

Another essential point is interest: If you wanted to eliminate "gambling", you would have to get rid off interest (and actually this is a big reason for bans on interest-taking in both Christianity and Islam) because interest is always starts out as just a projected price, not an actualized one.

Of course this would result in credit operations collapsing. Which is why outsourced the credit market to their Jewish minorities, which they could keep hostage, blame for credit crises and just massacre when they couldn't pay back.

474 engineer cat  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:35:14am

[P]rivately, financial service industry executives argue that the losses on the mortgage-backed securities were caused by a broader downturn in the economy and the housing market, not by how the mortgages were originated or packaged into securities. In addition, they contend that investors like A.I.G. as well as Fannie and Freddie were sophisticated and knew the securities were not without risk.

and hydrogen blimps are totally safe until one day there is somehow a spark

Investors fear that if banks are forced to pay out billions of dollars for mortgages that later defaulted, it could sap earnings for years and contribute to further losses across the financial services industry, which has only recently regained its footing.

Bank officials also counter that further legal attacks on them will only delay the recovery in the housing market, which remains moribund, hurting the broader economy. Other experts warned that a series of adverse settlements costing the banks billions raises other risks, even if suits have legal merit.

if you help all those people who are losing their houses, why, why - it might hurt me!!!

475 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:36:35am

re: #459 000G

I don't think the jump from accusation of ignorance to accusation of propagating racism is justified.

I stand by what I've said, though i have not "accused" DF of either ignorance of propagating racism, I've only linked to his own words about "people" being "more likely to see blacks as criminals".

And yes, those views are indeed what has always justified the virulent discrimination against us, especially men. It's Birth of A Nation mentality. That movie 100 years ago did quite a number on today's cons.

476 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:39:24am

re: #472 freetoken

I do not consider taking risk to be "gambling". All of life includes risks and they are unavoidable.

Yes, but not all risks in life are of a financial nature.

By "gambling" I mean specifically the same mindset as experienced in a casino in Vegas. It is an expectation of unrealistic events.

That sounds like you are blaming the investors more than the bankers who initially created the subprime mortgage vehicles. But the latter did indeed expect shit to go bust. That's what they speculated on. They were shorting their customers based on knowledge they intentionally withheld from them for that very purpose.

Demand for real estate cannot grow faster than the population (in long term averages.) Buildings are constructed and land use changed in response to the needs of humans and the US is already a well built out, highly developed nation.

I don't think the problem was accurately assessing risk. That's always going to be a problem, more or less. The actual problem was that it was profitable to mislead, lie, and deceive about those risks. The legal situation contributed (and still does) to that a lot.

477 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:45:09am

re: #475 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

i have not "accused" DF of […] propagating racism.

[…]

It's Birth of A Nation mentality.

Does not compute.

Shit started going down from around #394. I don't see what your linkage is proving. DF having admitted to racist sentiments in the past does not make each and every of his statements on issues related to race "anti-Black", which you certainly implied.

478 freetoken  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:55:01am

re: #476 000G

That sounds like you are blaming the investors more than the bankers who initially created the subprime mortgage vehicles.

Heh, there's no shortage of blame to go around.

Don't get me wrong - if I had my way half of all the those who hawk real estate would be in jail!

Ultimately, though, I blame (if "blame" is the right word) our society for embracing unrealistic views of life and propagating some very, very wrong notions. Such as, everyone should buy their own house. No. Home ownership used to be much lower, and that was realistic given the financial requirements to properly maintain property as well as the fact that Americans are highly mobile people who don't want to stay in any one location for too long.

If you look at long term graphs of home ownership among Americans you can see how the trends have developed over the decade. I suspect we have hit our peak of the % of Americans who will live in their "own" (though more correctly, financed) property.

479 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 1:57:54am

re: #477 000G

Does not compute.

Shit started going down from around #394. I don't see what your linkage is proving. DF having admitted to racist sentiments in the past does not make each and every of his statements on issues related to race "anti-Black", which you certainly implied.

DF admits to "racist" -- your word, not mine -- sentiments, right now, so he is no victim here. Those kinds of views dehumanize me as a Black person, and are behind disproportionate sentencing and punishment laws, and always have been. I have no problem pointing that out, regardless of whose delicate sensibilities it might upset.

As far as implying anything, I do not need to do that. I have no problems stating directly what I have to say.

I also did not claim, say, or "imply" that each and every statement related to race is "anti-Black", that is your own invention.

Anyone who weights a crime I commit as worse than someone else who commits the same crime is unqualified to comment on "lynch law", be it in the 20s or any other decade. That view is what justified lynching in the first place, and is directly out of Birth of A Nation.

480 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:05:43am

re: #479 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

DF admits to "racist" -- your word, not mine -- sentiments, right now, so he is no victim here. Those kinds of views dehumanize me as a Black person, and are behind disproportionate sentencing and punishment laws, and always have been. I have no problem pointing that out, regardless of whose delicate sensibilities it might upset.

It's not a question of sensibilities, it's a question of non-sequitur. Simply stating the correct fact that racist sentiments (not "views") are behind disproportionate sentencing and punishment laws does not make true the statement that DF was "espousing anti-black ideas" in the context of the debate that you were having here.

I also did not claim, say, or "imply" that each and every statement related to race is "anti-Black", that is your own invention.

No, that is what you implied. Otherwise your statements would be completely unfounded. As it stands, they are merely false.

Anyone who weights a crime I commit as worse than someone else who commits the same crime is unqualified to comment on "lynch law", be it in the 20s or any other decade. That view is what justified lynching in the first place, and is directly out of Birth of A Nation.

How did DF's racist sentiments logically affect the veracity of the content of any of his statements on "lynch laws" in here?

481 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:10:09am

re: #478 freetoken

Ultimately, though, I blame (if "blame" is the right word) our society for embracing unrealistic views of life and propagating some very, very wrong notions. Such as, everyone should buy their own house. No. Home ownership used to be much lower, and that was realistic given the financial requirements to properly maintain property as well as the fact that Americans are highly mobile people who don't want to stay in any one location for too long.

If you look at long term graphs of home ownership among Americans you can see how the trends have developed over the decade. I suspect we have hit our peak of the % of Americans who will live in their "own" (though more correctly, financed) property.

Again, not assessing risk accurately is not at the heart of the problem. There is always uncertainty in assessing the level of risk.

The problem was that lies, misdirection and deception about the risks was profitable, swindling people into believing obligations would do perfectly fine if they were treated as assets for them, and this leveraged the scale in favor of the fraudulent bubble. Part of that is due to investors often not caring about what their investments actually are and where the profits really come from, as Obdicut had pointed out correctly. There was not so much an embrace of unrealistic views as simply not having any view at all.

482 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:17:27am

re: #480 000G

It's not a question of sensibilities, it's a question of non-sequitur. Simply stating the correct fact that racist sentiments (not "views") are behind disproportionate sentencing and punishment laws does not make true the statement that DF was "espousing anti-black ideas" in the context of the debate that you were having here.

I did not say DF "was 'espousing anti-black ideas in the context of the debate that [we are] having here."

But he does harbor anti-Black ideas. I do not have an issue of pointing those out.

No, that is what you implied. Otherwise your statements would be completely unfounded. As it stands, they are merely false.

No, again, there was no "implication". I said, quite directly, he doesn't know what he's even talking about.

If I must, I will say it again, too.

How did DF's racist sentiments logically affect the veracity of the content of any of his statements on "lynch laws" in here?

"Racist sentiments" is your terminology, not mine - let's just make that clear.

DF knows jack sprat about "lynch laws" of any decade, yet had some kneejerk response to something I said about them. You can tell, because "of the 20s" was his own addition to what I said...ask him why he added it, because I've no idea.

Oh wait, you can't. He ran away.

483 researchok  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:24:20am

Morning, all

484 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:27:34am

re: #477 000G

Shit started going down from around #394.

Then take it up with the author of #394.

I hope you don't really believe I'm going to let an anti-Black con lecture me about post "ww2 conservatism" and "anti-lynch law of the 20s" /rotfl

Especially given the so-called "freedom" conservatives advocated for, during the Civil Rights era of the 50s and 60s. Their dogs and waterhoses and Confederate flags had nothing to do with freedom, and are among the crowning glories of repression in America.

Please. lol

485 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:30:18am

re: #484 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I hope you don't really believe I'm going to let an anti-Black con lecture me about post "ww2 conservatism" and "anti-lynch law of the 20s" /rotfl

This is your prerogative and you can rotfl all you want, but this does exactly zero to prove any of DF's points wrong nor does it prove any of DF's points in here to be "anti-Black".

486 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:35:52am

re: #482 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I did not say DF "was 'espousing anti-black ideas in the context of the debate that [we are] having here."

Then why the hell did you bring it up in the context of this debate?:

[snip]

The anti-crime mentality is identical to the anti-lynch law mentality of 100 years ago, and I've seen you espouse those exact same ignorant, race-hysterical, authoritarian, majoritarian-supremacist views.

If you thought your anti-Black ideas would stand up to even the faintest scrutiny, let alone the scrunity of a nobody on the internet like me, you'd at least have the integrity of offering an Eric Cantor mealy-mouthed defense.

[/snip]

But he does harbor anti-Black ideas. I do not have an issue of pointing those out.

Point it out all you may. The way that you do it, it doesn't help your argument. Rather to the contrary.

No, again, there was no "implication". I said, quite directly, he doesn't know what he's even talking about.

That's certainly not all that you said, see above.

"Racist sentiments" is your terminology, not mine - let's just make that clear.

Fine, yours was "anti-black ideas" and "Birth of a Nation views" instead. Do you feel better now?

DF knows jack sprat about "lynch laws" of any decade, yet had some kneejerk response to something I said about them. You can tell, because "of the 20s" was his own addition to what I said...ask him why he added it, because I've no idea.

What a fine debate course that would have been. And how unfortunate that you decided to drag it into something else.

Oh wait, you can't. He ran away.

Yeah, in the context of you making the anti-black charges.

487 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:38:47am

re: #485 000G

This is your prerogative and you can rotfl all you want, but this does exactly zero to prove any of DF's points wrong nor does it prove any of DF's points in here to be "anti-Black".

Yes, I said something about lynch law, and DF added some non-sequitur about WW2 and the 20s.

His own stated views, right now, today (well, a few weeks ago -- "in the past", in your view) are directly in line with just why lynch law was never passed in the first place, and is the reason for disproportionate sentencing laws.

Why not just say instead why you are so personally invested in defending someone else's nonsensical non-sequitur?

488 dell*nix  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:41:36am

I was in Selma during that week for a funeral. Stayed away from the protest route and the bridge. Did not need the complications of being perceived as part of the mess.

489 palomino  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:43:35am

re: #461 engineer dog

coded language about loans to the poor and minorities

the verdict on the crisis according to wingnut sites i have read is that the recession was caused by "unqualified minorities" getting loans

now, what is the purpose of including the word 'minorities' in this statement?

does it add to the financial analysis? were no non-minority people granted mortgages that they couldn't afford?

This goes to a point I've been trying to make for years: the economy and the culture wars can't be neatly separated into two unconnected boxes. There is a strong meme on the right that Obama's policies are meant to punish hard working whites and give the proceeds to lazy nonwhites. It's the same BS I've heard ever since I was a kid and "welfare queen" was the coded term du jour.

490 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:46:25am

re: #487 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

His own stated views, right now, today (well, a few weeks ago -- "in the past", in your view)

No, not "'in the past' in my view": that is not what I pointed out and would be irrelevant anyhow.

are directly in line with just why lynch law was never passed in the first place, and is the reason for disproportionate sentencing laws.

Whatever "directly in line" means here; I don't think you know what it is supposed to mean yourself. It certainly does not mean any actual logical connection.

Why not just say instead why you are so personally invested in defending someone else's nonsensical non-sequitur?

I'm not. I am "attacking" yours.

491 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:47:21am

re: #486 000G

Then why the hell did you bring it up in the context of this debate?:

Wrong question. You should be asking why he had that reaction to my #386 in the first place.

But he's not here right now.

[quote]The way that you do it, it doesn't help your argument. Rather to the contrary.[/quote]

But I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. You can take what I said or leave it; doesn't matter.

Fine, yours was "anti-black ideas" and "Birth of a Nation views" instead. Do you feel better now?

I feel just fine. And yes, I prefer the specificity, when the topic is lynching and conservative mythologies about black criminality.

What have you gotten so defensive about?

Yeah, in the context of you making the anti-black charges.

DF, in your own words, not mine, has "racist sentiments". Why can't I talk about it?

Why does it trouble you so that I did?

492 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:48:52am

re: #491 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

But I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. You can take what I said or leave it; doesn't matter.

Fair enough, albusteve.

What have you gotten so defensive about?

I am not. Why do you think I am?

DF, in your own words, not mine, has "racist sentiments". Why can't I talk about it?

You can. I would prefer you didn't do it nonsensically and unfairly, though.

493 freetoken  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:51:04am
494 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:53:22am

re: #490 000G

No, not "'in the past' in my view": that is not what I pointed out and would be irrelevant anyhow.

Yes, those were your words, and what you pointed out.

Whatever "directly in line" means here; I don't think you know what it is supposed to mean yourself. It certainly does not mean any actual logical connection.

Nonsense paragraph.

If you need me to state it again for the 17th time I'd be happy to oblige: the views DF has -- racist, in your words -- of black criminality, are behind lack of anti-lynch law then, and disproportionate sentencing practices, now.

They are white supremacist views, yes, out of Birth of A Nation, but they date back far earlier than that.

I'm not. I am "attacking" yours.

Well, you're not doing a very good job with this so-called attack. What's it really about, anyway?

495 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:58:23am

re: #492 000G

Fair enough, albusteve.

I am not.

Oh, but you are. In fact, I would say you are having somewhat of a hissyfit, you and your "attack" /rotfl

You can. I would prefer you didn't do it nonsensically and unfairly, though.

DFs views, which you yourself label "racist", are the unfair views, so go cry to him about unfairness.

496 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:59:36am

re: #494 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes, those were your words, and what you pointed out.

No, I pointed out that you pointed it out. You made that past statement directly "linked" to the current ones here. I pointed out that that was nonsensical. That is not the same as me allegedly pointing out pastness as proof of there not being a link (which I didn't do, but you falsely claim).

If you need me to state it again for the 17th time I'd be happy to oblige: the views DF has -- racist, in your words -- of black criminality, are behind lack of anti-lynch law then, and disproportionate sentencing practices, now.

And if you need me to state it again for the 17th time: That is irrelevant for any point conceivable in this debate.

But hey, you can always pull the excuse of "I didn't mean to make a point to begin with", like you did in #491, right?

Well, you're not doing a very good job with this so-called attack. What's it really about, anyway?

You are just not doing a good job at comprehending what I say or admitting to it being correct. Why do you think it is "really" about anything else than I said? Seems like a petty diversionary rhetorical tactic you try to employ.

497 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:01:14am

re: #495 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, but you are. In fact, I would say you are having somewhat of a hissyfit, you and your "attack" /rotfl

Sad display of projection on your part. I feel sorry for you having to react the way that you do when your fallacies get challenged.

DFs views, which you yourself label "racist", are the unfair views, so go cry to him about unfairness.

I didn't say that they were not unfair. However, I am not going to entertain your tu quoque diversion.

498 Stephen T.  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:02:31am

re: #390 boxhead

But from what I have read, these protesters have been out there for eight days with no reports of civil disorder. What changed today?

The weekend is not as fully staffed with experienced journalists at CNN/Fox/MSNBC headquarters. Add to that the fickleness of your average TV viewer and the protests won't be a news worthy story on Monday Morning.

499 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:02:33am

re: #496 000G

Now you're just repeating everything I say.

Why not just tell what bee is in your bonnet.

500 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:03:17am

re: #497 000G

Sad display of projection on your part.

I didn't say that they were not unfair. However, I am not going to entertain your tu quoque diversion.

What are you so beside yourself about?

501 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:03:42am

re: #499 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Now you're just repeating everything I say.

Heh. Nice try.

Why not just tell what bee is in your bonnet.

You really need to do a better job at trying to catch me at anything or uncovering my "secret" motives.

502 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:04:00am

re: #500 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What are you so beside yourself about?

Sympathy, with the tendency towards pity for you.

503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:05:18am

re: #501 000G

Heh. Nice try.

You really need to do a better job at trying to catch me at anything or uncovering my "secret" motives.

Paranoia will destroy ya.

It was a direct question. What about my posts tonight have made you so enraged?

504 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:05:34am

re: #502 000G

Sympathy.

Meaning?

506 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:06:05am

re: #503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Paranoia will destroy ya.

Again with the projection.

It was a direct question. What about my posts tonight have made you so enraged?

I already told you: You argued nonsensically and unfairly and thus denigrated any point you conceivably could have made.

507 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:06:48am

re: #504 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Meaning?

Meaning that I wish you would argue your case better a lot of times, or just not type when you do not have one. This is because I pretty much always agree with you when you do have a case and argue it well.

508 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:08:02am

re: #506 000G

Again with the projection.

I already told you: You argued nonsensically and unfairly and thus denigrated any point you conceivably could have made.

Yeah but you failed to make that case. DF is no victim, he's a grown man. Stop treating him like a baby who cannot defend himself.

509 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:09:07am

re: #507 000G

Meaning that I wish you would argue your case better a lot of times, or just not type when you do not have one. This is because I pretty much always agree with you when you do have a case and argue it well.

So this is about some past grudge or hurt feelings, I take it.

What have I said in the past that has made you fly off the handle tonight?

510 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:09:41am

re: #508 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah but you failed to make that case.

No, you failed to concede that I made it.

DF is no victim, he's a grown man. Stop treating him like a baby who cannot defend himself.

I am not. But again: ad personam is not a proper argument, either.

I am not about defending any one person here. It's about the accuracy of the exchange of ideas, for the sake of those ideas.

511 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:10:21am

re: #505 Sergey Romanov

[Video]

rotfl

512 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:11:42am

re: #509 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So this is about some past grudge or hurt feelings, I take it.

No, I just take into account my memory of you arguing in a bad way a lot of times. Your failed attempt of emotionalizing that correct assessment is not helping.

What have I said in the past that has made you fly off the handle tonight?

There you go again, trying to find the secret past, emotional turning point.

There is none. Your conduct in this very thread was flawed. I pointed it out. You refuse to deal with it and try to make it about some supposed emotional issue of mine. Not my problem, dude.

513 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:12:53am

re: #510 000G

No, you failed to concede that I made it.

e_e

I am not about defending any one person here. It's about the accuracy of the exchange of ideas, for the sake of those ideas.

Sure it is.

DF is the one with the inaccurate ideas, starting at the very least with his inventions in #394 which set you off, so. Take that lofty abstraction up with him, next time you see him.

514 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:14:14am

re: #513 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

DF is the one with the inaccurate ideas, starting at the very least with his inventions in #394 which set you off, so. Take that lofty abstraction up with him, next time you see him.

I am certainly not letting myself getting lectured by someone who won't even concede to their tu quoque being a fallacy but instead doubling down on it. :-)

515 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:17:44am

re: #512 000G

No, I just take into account my memory of you arguing in a bad way a lot of times. Your failed attempt of emotionalizing that correct assessment is not helping.

There you go again, trying to find the secret past, emotional turning point.

There is none. Your conduct in this very thread was flawed. I pointed it out. You refuse to deal with it. Not my problem, dude.

Lol do you think that if you keep asserting your innate correctness that actually makes it so?

I keep asking you, which times in the past have you in such a state this evening? You keep bringing that up as an issue, not me. But I am glad to see you finally acknowledging that this ridiculous exchange had little to do with DF at all.

I've asked several times, now, in several different ways, now. If you only have venting in place of an answer, just say so, and I'll stop asking.

516 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:19:15am

re: #514 000G

I am certainly not letting myself getting lectured by someone who won't even concede to their tu quoque being a fallacy but instead doubling down on it. :-)

What past things have I said, that bother you so that you're tweaking tonight?

517 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:20:37am

re: #515 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I keep asking you, which times in the past have you in such a state this evening? You keep bringing that up as an issue, not me.

Dude, it's pretty obvious. Go through some recent threads, find the ones where you got a lot of downdings. Usually about your fallacies concerning false generalizations of conservatives. You will see.

But I am glad to see you finally acknowledging that this ridiculous exchange had little to do with DF at all.

I acknowledged no such thing. But I am amused that you still need to make stuff up. It proves you are not willing or able to deal with the actual objection.

I've asked several times, now, in several different ways, now. If you only have venting in place of an answer, just say so, and I'll stop asking.

lol, maybe we should get into your emotional issues. What is this you not comprehending the very easy stuff I write really about?

518 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:22:01am

re: #517 000G

She's not a dude.

519 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:22:10am

re: #516 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What past things have I said, that bother you so that you're tweaking tonight?

Why do you need to make up that this is about some past emotional issue of mine instead about your flaws in arguing?

520 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:22:18am

re: #518 Sergey Romanov

She's not a dude.

I know.

521 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:23:05am

re: #512 000G


Lol - first this:

No, I just take into account my memory of you arguing in a bad way a lot of times. Your failed attempt of emotionalizing that correct assessment is not helping.

Then this...

There you go again, trying to find the secret past, emotional turning point.

Oh but you're quite wrong about it being "secret". I keep asking you what past thing(s) I've said that have you in such a tizzy, now, yet you reveal the issue, yourself: this is indeed about some personal conflict based on something in the past.

Why not just tell me what that is? Or are you unable to articulate it?

522 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:23:11am

re: #520 000G

I know.

So why do you keep addressing her like this?

523 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:24:20am

re: #521 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh but you're quite wrong about it being "secret". I keep asking you what past thing(s) I've said that have you in such a tizzy, now, yet you reveal the issue, yourself: this is indeed about some personal conflict based on something in the past.

No, it is not. But keep lying about that. It amuses me greatly. :-)

Why not just tell me what that is? Or are you unable to articulate it?

Sorry I can't help you making up your facts as much as you would like me to.

524 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:24:29am

re: #519 000G

Why do you need to make up that this is about some past emotional issue of mine instead about your flaws in arguing?

You have said so, yourself, a couple times, now. So it's not made up, in the least.

What's the issue. Tell me. If there are multiple issues, tell me those, too.

525 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:24:55am

re: #522 Sergey Romanov

So why do you keep addressing her like this?

Manner of speech of mine when talking to the intentionally dense. Any problem with that?

526 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:25:42am

re: #523 000G

No, it is not. But keep lying about that.

You said it yourself, so it's not a lie, or made up.

It was less than 15 minutes ago. Would you like me to link you to what you just said?

rotfl

527 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:25:52am

re: #524 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You have said so, yourself, a couple times, now. So it's not made up, in the least.

No, I haven't. Either your reading comprehension problems run a lot deeper than I thought, or it is you who really flew off the handle, here.

What's the issue. Tell me. If there are multiple issues, tell me those, too.

I'd prefer if you laid on the couch, lol

528 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:26:38am

re: #526 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You said it yourself, so it's not a lie, or made up.

No, I didn't.

It was less than 15 minutes ago. Would you like me to link you to what you just said?

Go ahead. It would only further the proof of what I have been saying.

529 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:27:22am

re: #525 000G

Manner of speech of mine when talking to the intentionally dense. Any problem with that?

Well, I find it weird.

In fact, I find this whole tantrum of yours weird. Are you drunk posting?

530 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:28:13am

re: #528 000G

It would only further the proof of what I have been saying.

Lol uh, no it wouldn't.

531 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:28:52am

re: #525 000G

Manner of speech of mine when talking to the intentionally dense. Any problem with that?

Yes, I think calling a female a "dude" is problematic outside maybe only humorous context.

532 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:29:03am

re: #529 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

In fact, I find this whole tantrum of yours weird. Are you drunk posting?

I find it weird of you needing to assert a "tantrum" of mine or speculating about me being intoxicated when it is you who refuses to simply concede the obvious fallacies you committed.

This starts to remind me of arguing with Buck. The dodgeball m.o.

533 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:29:56am

re: #530 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol uh, no it wouldn't.

Yes, it would. As I said: Go ahead.

534 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:30:35am

re: #527 000G

No, I haven't. Either your reading comprehension problems run a lot deeper than I thought, or it is you who really flew off the handle, here.

Uh-huh. So heads you win, tails, I lose.

I thought you said I was the one being unfair, nonsensical, flying off the handle, tu quoque, etc.

You're not very good at this. Why are you so up in arms because I had a disagreement with DF about lynch law?

535 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:30:55am

re: #531 Sergey Romanov

Yes, I think calling a female a "dude" is problematic outside maybe only humorous context.

My dictionary tells me that it's not absolutely semantically incorrect, but fine: What would you rather have me call her?

536 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:31:59am

re: #532 000G

9_9 just repeating what I've said.

What have I done in the past that is making you annoyed tonight?

537 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:32:50am

re: #534 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Uh-huh. So heads you win, tails, I lose.

No idea what that is supposed to mean. Your statement in #524 was simply objectively wrong, and there are no other explanations.

I thought you said I was the one being unfair, nonsensical, flying off the handle, tu quoque, etc.

Yes. And?

You're not very good at this.

lol, right back atcha.

Why are you so up in arms because I had a disagreement with DF about lynch law?

I told you multiple times already: Because I really wish you would argue your case better.

538 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:33:21am

re: #535 000G

My dictionary tells me that it's not absolutely semantically incorrect, but fine: What would you rather have me call her?

Well, if you're really interested, you could start by asking me what I prefer to be called. That's an option.

539 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:33:36am

re: #535 000G

If she were your pal and this was a term of endearment, maybe. You yourself pointed out that you use it in (what I see as) a hostile context. What you call anyone is your choice, just as I may choose to comment on your choice.

540 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:33:42am

re: #536 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What have I done in the past that is making you annoyed tonight?

You not conceding your obvious fallacies that you made in this very thread and that I pointed out in this very thread makes me amused, not annoyed. :-)

541 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:34:17am

re: #537 000G

No idea what that is supposed to mean. Your statement in #524 was simply objectively wrong, and there are no other explanations.

Because you said so?

I told you multiple times already: Because I really wish you would argue your case better.

What case, or cases, must I argue to your personal satisfaction?

542 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:34:24am

re: #538 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, if you're really interested, you could start by asking me what I prefer to be called. That's an option.

I was asking Sergey, since he was the one who objected.

543 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:35:05am

re: #541 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Because you said so?

No, because it is.

What case, or cases, must I argue to your personal satisfaction?

None. Why do you think that there are any?

544 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:35:48am

re: #539 Sergey Romanov

If she were your pal and this was a term of endearment, maybe. You yourself pointed out that you use it in (what I see as) a hostile context. What you call anyone is your choice, just as I may choose to comment on your choice.

Fair enough.

545 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:36:54am

re: #540 000G

You not conceding your obvious fallacies that you made in this very thread and that I pointed out in this very thread makes me amused, not annoyed. :-)

^Proof by repeated assertion. There has to be a fallacy category at Nizkor for that.

Now, write back with some vague insult about me or my intelligence again. Slow night, tonight.

546 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:38:32am

re: #543 000G

No, because it is.

That's right, keep asserting that wounded sense of correctness. Maybe some day you will finally convince yourself that you won.

What did you win, btw?

547 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:38:42am

re: #545 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

^Proof by repeated assertion. There has to be a fallacy category at Nizkor for that.

Uh, no. I just proved it several posts above. There is no need for repetition other than entertainment.

But funny that you would accuse me of trying to "proof by repeated assertion". That is exactly what you did ever since you started refusing to concede your fallacies.

548 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:39:32am

re: #547 000G

Uh, no. I just proved it several posts above. There is no need for repetition other than entertainment.

But funny that you would accuse me of trying to "proof by repeated assertion". That is exactly what you did ever since you started refusing to concede your fallacies.

This is getting very tedious, 000G.

549 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:39:42am

re: #546 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's right, keep asserting that wounded sense of correctness. Maybe some day you will finally convince yourself that you won.

What did you win, btw?

It's not about winning, but about being correct, accurate and arguing in a valid and sound way. I know, you don't really care about that. You have made that very clear in the way you reacted to your fallacies being pointed out to you.

550 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:39:48am

Well good morning honcos.

551 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:40:34am

re: #548 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

This is getting very tedious, 000G.

I agree. Why don't you start up that failed "it must be really about some past butthurt of 000G" lying meme again? That was kind of fun.

552 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:41:13am

Karel Capek had a great essay on logical fallacies. Trying to find it in English. Deserves to be a FAQ.

553 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:43:11am

re: #552 Sergey Romanov

Karel Capek had a great essay on logical fallacies. Trying to find it in English. Deserves to be a FAQ.

In the mean time: [Link: www.fallacyfiles.org...]

This one is lol: [Link: www.fallacyfiles.org...]

554 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:43:36am

re: #549 000G

It's not about winning, but about being correct, accurate and arguing in a valid and sound way.

But you haven't done that. Instead, you've expressed some nebulous grudge about something I did or said in some vague past.

I know, you don't really care about that. You have made that very clear in the way you reacted to your fallacies being pointed out to you.

You keep saying that, I suppose in hopes that it will magically become true.

Why not finish the thought you started?

555 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:44:58am

re: #551 000G

I agree. Why don't you start up that failed "it must be really about some past butthurt of 000G" lying meme again? That was kind of fun.

It's not a meme, it came from your own keyboard. Do you deny having expressed it?

Why?

556 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:45:06am

It's called "TWELVE FIGURES IN FIGHTING WITH PENS,: OR A HANDBOOK OF LITERARY POLEMICS" but I can't see the full text online, drats.

557 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:45:37am

re: #554 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

But you haven't done that.

Yes, I did. You just chose to ignore it, the Buck way. That's fine.

Instead, you've expressed some nebulous grudge about something I did or said in some vague past.

No, I didn't. What actually happened was that you invented some grudge I alledgedly have to deflect from the actual objections against your fallacies. That's fine, too. I'm used to it from you now.

You keep saying that, I suppose in hopes that it will magically become true.

lol, the projection is delicious.

Why not finish the thought you started?

Hm?

558 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:46:59am

re: #555 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's not a meme, it came from your own keyboard.

No, actually you started inventing it in #494.

Do you deny having expressed it?

Why?

I didn't express any grudge.

559 RogueOne  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:48:44am

Good morning cupcakes!

560 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:50:46am

re: #557 000G

Yes, I did. You just chose to ignore it, the Buck way. That's fine.

I chose to ignore what?

If I'm Buck and albusteve, who does that make you? e_e

Your "attack" -- your words, not mine, I certainly do not feel this is any kind of attack -- has been all over the map, and having little to do with anything of substance.

So write back and re-assert how right you are, and that you have won are correct.

Lol, absurd.

561 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:52:50am

re: #558 000G

re: #560 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Go to your rooms.
/

562 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:53:46am

re: #560 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I chose to ignore what?

My being correct, accurate and arguing in a valid and sound way about... forget it, I am not repeating it for the 18th time. :-)

Your "attack" -- your words, not mine, I certainly do not feel this is any kind of attack

I used the word "attacking" in scare quotes and only in reply to you using the word "defending" -- "attacking" is simply the complementary word.

-- has been all over the map, and having little to do with anything of substance.

I felt compelled to reply to your deflections into the substance-free territory, true. My bad.

Lol, absurd.

I am glad you are at least being able to entertain yourself with your continual denial about your fallacies. :-)

563 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:53:58am

re: #561 Varek Raith

Or get a room!///

564 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:54:24am

Shark 1, Man 0.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

565 RogueOne  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:55:14am

re: #561 Varek Raith

re: #560 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Go to your rooms.
/

I'd like to go over the part where it's impolite to call females "dude". I don't think that's problematic, at least I hope not since I do it all the time. Has Miss Manners ever made that assertion of etiquette?

566 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:56:46am

re: #565 RogueOne

I'd like to go over the part where it's impolite to call females "dude". I don't think that's problematic, at least I hope not since I do it all the time. Has Miss Manners ever made that assertion of etiquette?

[Link: wiki.answers.com...]

567 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:57:13am

re: #565 RogueOne

Read more carefully. ;)

568 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:57:18am

re: #565 RogueOne

I'd like to go over the part where it's impolite to call females "dude". I don't think that's problematic, at least I hope not since I do it all the time. Has Miss Manners ever made that assertion of etiquette?

The first time I met my girl friend I called her "dude"
Completely harmless, I thought, since I too do it all the time.
WRONG!
She hit me.
:)

569 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 3:58:12am

re: #568 Varek Raith

The first time I met my girl friend I called her "dude"
Completely harmless, I thought, since I too do it all the time.
WRONG!
She hit me.
:)

Has she stopped? And if so, why?
/

570 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:00:15am
Logged out: CuriousLurker

Logged in: CuriousLurker

Hey! That was quick.

571 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:00:26am

re: #569 Cannadian Club Akbar

Has she stopped? And if so, why?
/

Yes, as that was way back in high school.
She's still kind of scary though.
*Hides*

572 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:01:04am

re: #570 Sergey Romanov

Hey! That was quick.

Might be FF.
It was crashing like crazy for me the last couple of days.
Log in to LGF, CRASH!

573 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:01:50am

re: #572 Varek Raith

Crashes don't cause immediate logouts.

574 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:02:37am

re: #573 Sergey Romanov

Crashes don't cause immediate logouts.

Really?
Magic!

575 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:03:30am

re: #574 Varek Raith

I think that with absence of the open window LGF engine logs the person out in 5 minutes or so, if I remember that conversation correctly.

576 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:04:05am
577 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:04:13am

re: #570 Sergey Romanov

Hey! That was quick.

She logs in, she logs out.

You can't explain that.

578 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:04:47am

re: #562 000G

I am glad you are at least being able to entertain yourself with your continual denial about your fallacies. :-)

579 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:05:45am

My cat brought in a live bird yesterday.
Spent several hours trying to coax it out the front door.
It eventually flew out.
Hope it's ok.

580 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:05:53am

re: #576 Killgore Trout

Image: V3f5h.jpg

A tasty little rabbit!

581 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:05:53am

re: #551 000G

I agree. Why don't you start up that failed "it must be really about some past butthurt of 000G" lying meme again? That was kind of fun.

I did not use the term "butthurt".

Why did you?

582 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:06:59am

re: #563 Sergey Romanov

Or get a room!///

I don't think I'm her type.

583 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:07:34am

re: #582 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think I'm her type.

He's a dude.

584 Varek Raith  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:08:28am

Time for coffee.
And food.
And coffee.
Coffee!

585 RogueOne  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:08:38am

re: #576 Killgore Trout

Image: V3f5h.jpg

That's a sweet thought but totally inaccurate. What about those of us who love animals but aren't all that fond of people?

The rest of you aren't so special, I can be pedantic too.

586 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:08:57am

re: #583 Sergey Romanov

He's a dude.

I think she's just retaliating for my "dude". ;-)

587 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:09:09am

re: #581 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I did not use the term "butthurt".

Why did you?

Because internet.

588 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:09:28am

re: #586 000G

I think she's just retaliating for my "dude". ;-)

Or you should change your avatar ;)

589 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:10:40am

re: #586 000G

I think she's just retaliating for my "dude". ;-)

I didn't bring up the "dude" issue. What would I be retaliating against you for, anyway? Lol!

590 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:10:55am

re: #578 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

[Video]

591 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:11:36am

Okay, someone with an access to Eng-lang library should definitely scan that essay by Capek. It's in "In praise of newspapers, and other essays on the margin of literature" collection. And it's a classic.

592 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:12:14am

re: #589 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I didn't bring up the "dude" issue. What would I be retaliating against you for, anyway? Lol!

You seemed to think my "dude" towards you was inappropriate when you interjected into my and Sergey's spin-off debate.

593 RogueOne  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:12:30am

The wife says we need to take off already. This is for Gus since he mentioned something like this last week:

"You stop to help someone change a tire and end up dead"
Semi kills pedestrian, injures 2 others
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

A semitrailer truck struck and killed a man who stopped to aid motorists in a disabled car on I-465 on the Southeastside of Indianapolis and injured two other people.

Indiana State Police say a semi carrying a load of whiskey veered onto the right shoulder of southbound I-465, south of I-74 just before midnight Wednesday. The semi struck the good Samaritan's pickup truck parked on the shoulder and then hit the good Samaritan and two others walking on the shoulder.

594 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:12:35am

re: #590 000G

Trimurti.

595 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:14:46am

re: #593 RogueOne

Was the whiskey OK?

596 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:15:32am

re: #591 Sergey Romanov

Okay, someone with an access to Eng-lang library should definitely scan that essay by Capek. It's in "In praise of newspapers, and other essays on the margin of literature" collection. And it's a classic.

[Link: catalogue.nla.gov.au...]

597 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:17:04am

re: #596 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, you [go to Australia]!

598 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:18:23am

re: #592 000G

You seemed to think my "dude" towards you was inappropriate when you interjected into my and Sergey's spin-off debate.

It's an epithet towards me, about me.

Am I not permitted to "interject" into a conversation about me?

rotfl

599 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:18:35am

re: #587 000G

Because internet.

Is that your final answer?

600 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:20:27am

re: #592 000G

Didn't answer the question.

What, in your mind, would I be retaliating against you for?

601 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:20:45am

re: #598 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's an epithet towards me, about me.

Am I not permitted to "interject" into a conversation about me?

rotfl

"Epithet". Oh boy.

It wasn't really about you. But yeah, "permitted" either way.

602 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:21:32am

re: #600 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Didn't answer the question.

Yes, I did.

What, in your mind, would I be retaliating against you for?

Some supposed "epithet", I am guessing. I don't know. Can't keep track of all of the things you make up about me, frankly.

603 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:22:11am

re: #594 Sergey Romanov

Trimurti.

604 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:23:15am

re: #601 000G

"Epithet". Oh boy.

I didn't bring up the thing about "dude". It was interesting to watch, though.

This entire episode is fascinating.

605 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:23:39am

re: #604 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

This entire episode is fascinating.

Are you drunk?

606 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:25:31am

re: #602 000G

Yes, I did.

Some supposed "epithet", I am guessing.

Hey, you're the one who conceded to Sergey saying it was used in hostility.

Personally, I think that, and your general overreaction to what I said to DF is hilarious.

607 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:25:56am

re: #603 000G

Okay, so he was sleeping and not praying. Big deal!

608 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:25:59am

re: #605 000G

Are you drunk?

Nope. You?

609 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:27:42am

re: #606 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hey, you're the one who conceded to Sergey saying it was used in hostility.

Not used in hostility, but in a hostile context. Important difference. I also did not "concede", I merely acknowledged his points the way he made them. Not that you care about such minor logical points, though.

Personally, I think that, and your general overreaction to what I said to DF is hilarious.

Personally, I think that your general overreaction to your fallacies being pointed out, taking it personally and refusing to admit to any error, and on top of it deflecting and making shit up, is the most hilarious part of all of this. :-)

610 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:27:55am

re: #608 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Nope. You?

Nope. And you already asked. Remember?

611 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:29:09am

Eh, I'm better off watching this fight:

612 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:31:41am

Enh, off to lunch. Later, lizards.

613 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:34:33am

re: #609 000G

Not used in hostility, but in a hostile context. Important difference. I also did not "concede", I merely acknowledged his points the way he made them. Not that you care about such minor logical points, though.

Personally, I think that your general overreaction to your fallacies being pointed out, taking it personally and refusing to admit to any error, and on top of it deflecting and making shit up, is the most hilarious part of all of this. :-)

Look, I could really give a shyt if you call me "dude" or not. I didn't bring it up, but I did find your rationale interesting when confronted by someone else.

Are you enjoying that badge of honor you keep awarding yourself about all my supposed "fallacies", though. I suppose that's one way to earn one.

614 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:37:17am

re: #611 Sergey Romanov

Much more entertaining.

615 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:38:27am

re: #612 000G

Enh, off to lunch. Later, lizards.

Hmph.

Well, I guess he really told me. /

616 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:39:41am

Wahabis gone wild....
Mecca for the rich: Islam's holiest site 'turning into Vegas'

In the eyes of Wahabis, historical sites and shrines encourage "shirq" – the sin of idolatry or polytheism – and should be destroyed. When the al-Saud tribes swept through Mecca in the 1920s, the first thing they did was lay waste to cemeteries holding many of Islam's important figures. They have been destroying the country's heritage ever since. Of the three sites the Saudis have allowed the UN to designate World Heritage Sites, none are related to Islam.
...
To build the skyscraper city, the authorities dynamited an entire mountain and the Ottoman era Ajyad Fortress that lay on top of it. At the other end of the Grand Mosque complex, the house of the Prophet's first wife Khadijah has been turned into a toilet block. The fate of the house he was born in is uncertain. Also planned for demolition are the Grand Mosque's Ottoman columns which dare to contain the names of the Prophet's companions, something hardline Wahabis detest.

617 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:43:30am

re: #616 Killgore Trout

Wahabis gone wild...
Mecca for the rich: Islam's holiest site 'turning into Vegas'

FTA:
"No one has the balls to stand up and condemn this cultural vandalism," says Dr Irfan al-Alawi who, as executive director of the Islamic Heritage Research Foundation, has fought in vain to protect his country's historical sites. "We have already lost 400-500 sites. I just hope it's not too late to turn things around."

Funny, I thought every time we couldn't go after terrorist hiding in Mosques it was because "it is the #xxxxxxx" most holiest site?

618 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:44:45am

re: #616 Killgore Trout

[Link: www.evenworsethanthetaliban.com...]

Fox House of Saud News is the Victory Mosque.

619 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:47:05am

re: #618 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Linky no worky.

620 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:48:53am

re: #619 Cannadian Club Akbar

It's not supposed to - it's a joke link. Ancient meme from a couple years ago.

621 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:50:24am

re: #620 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's not supposed to - it's a joke link. Ancient meme from a couple years ago.

Ah, my bad.

622 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:53:17am

re: #617 Cannadian Club Akbar

FTA:
"No one has the balls to stand up and condemn this cultural vandalism," says Dr Irfan al-Alawi who, as executive director of the Islamic Heritage Research Foundation, has fought in vain to protect his country's historical sites. "We have already lost 400-500 sites. I just hope it's not too late to turn things around."

Funny, I thought every time we couldn't go after terrorist hiding in Mosques it was because "it is the #xxx" most holiest site?

They've been doing this for a long time but I always thought it was just urban sprawl. I hadn't realized there was Wahabi philosophy behind it.

623 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:55:50am

re: #622 Killgore Trout

They've been doing this for a long time but I always thought it was just urban sprawl. I hadn't realized there was Wahabi philosophy behind it.

One of the quotes was (paraphrase) "They came and told us to get out. Then knocked down our house with a bulldozer and we're still waiting on compensation". Saudi Kelo?

624 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 4:59:56am

re: #622 Killgore Trout

It may be, actually, why we try so hard not to destroy religious sites; so that we're not acting like a bunch of Wahhabi.

And it may be why the terrorists hide so cavalierly inside mosques and other sites; because to them, they're expendable, just like the people inside them are.

This does raise the question of how Wahhabi view Mecca as a whole. Maybe CuriousLurker will know.

625 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:06:50am

I see the lefty idiots are all wound up today about the Occupy Wallstreet protests are the brutal repression of living in a police state.

Even the Tea Partiers can manage hold peaceful protests without fighting with the cops. The idiots behind the protests are every bit as stupid and radical as the Tea Partiers and probably even worse. Lefty sites like Dkos just don't see the irony.

626 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:11:16am

re: #625 Killgore Trout

Arab Spring, my bottom.

627 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:12:32am

re: #624 Obdicut

It may be, actually, why we try so hard not to destroy religious sites; so that we're not acting like a bunch of Wahhabi.

And it may be why the terrorists hide so cavalierly inside mosques and other sites; because to them, they're expendable, just like the people inside them are.

This does raise the question of how Wahhabi view Mecca as a whole. Maybe CuriousLurker will know.

I'm betting the House of Saud sees it as just another money-maker.

628 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:13:00am

re: #625 Killgore Trout

OMG!! Did that girl have an arm cut ff or was she just screaming that way!!
//

629 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:13:54am

re: #625 Killgore Trout

I don't see anything in that video that's the protesters not being peaceful, though it's hard to tell what's going on. Why are they freaking out at the start?

The general problem with 'lefty' protests of that nature is the black-masked anarchists show up and escalate, though. It's a real problem that Obama's campaign did a very good job of handling at their rallies and protests, but significantly damages a lot of otherwise-respectable 'lefty' protests.

630 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:16:29am

re: #628 Cannadian Club Akbar

OMG!! Did that girl have an arm cut ff or was she just screaming that way!!
//

I didn't watch the whole thing, but tmk during Civil Rights, histrionic types like that would have been weeded out from the protest contingent....that's the sort of person who would have effed it up for everyone.

Rebellion is cute and trendy, in some circles. I've seen it.

631 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:16:32am

re: #629 Obdicut

The black-masked anarchist LOVE WTO events, don't they? (I know this isn't a WTO event, I'm just sayin')

632 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:18:16am

re: #629 Obdicut

I don't see anything in that video that's the protesters not being peaceful, though it's hard to tell what's going on. Why are they freaking out at the start?

The general problem with 'lefty' protests of that nature is the black-masked anarchists show up and escalate, though. It's a real problem that Obama's campaign did a very good job of handling at their rallies and protests, but significantly damages a lot of otherwise-respectable 'lefty' protests.

Stupid Blac Bloc provocateurs....they show up and ruin it for everyone.

633 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:25:04am

re: #631 Cannadian Club Akbar

The protesters here have a perfectly valid point. Wall Street was a large cause of the meltdown and they have mostly escaped without penalty; many have escaped much richer than they were before the meltdown. It is, in fact, fucking disgusting.

I don't think that that message gets across very clearly by a protest like this. On the other hand, I don't have any great ideas on how to wake the American people up to the huge and growing problem in the US related to the banking sector and the growing class divide between capitalist and laborer.

I also think the real sociopath types in the financial industries in New York love this shit. It's like a movie being put on just for them. The average financial sector worker, I don't think they care, or are really inconvenienced, by these protests. I'm of the philosophy that marches on Washington are always, always going to be the best form of political protest.

There's another factor here, and that's that the depressed economy means that we're going to see more and more young, out-of-work, angry poor people. It's going to grow-- even though we're adding jobs, it's most likely people who already have experience will be hired long before the recent graduates are, in the main. So we, as a society, are going to have to prepare for a younger, more volatile, and angrier crowd with abundant free time and real issues to be mad about.

634 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:32:58am

re: #629 Obdicut

The general problem with 'lefty' protests of that nature is the black-masked anarchists show up and escalate, though.

Don't kid yourself. This specific protest was started by the anarchists from Anon and their friends from Wikileaks. It would be too hard to see who applied for the permits but it's probably the usual idiots from Socialist Workers Party, World Can't Wait, etc. Same with the antiwar protests under Bush. I think this is an important reminder that Glenn Beck's boogey men really do exist although he greatly exaggerates their importance and influence. They are real and they do exist.

635 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:39:04am

re: #634 Killgore Trout

It wouldn't be too hard to see who applied for the permits

636 palomino  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:41:46am

re: #634 Killgore Trout

Don't kid yourself. This specific protest was started by the anarchists from Anon and their friends from Wikileaks. It would be too hard to see who applied for the permits but it's probably the usual idiots from Socialist Workers Party, World Can't Wait, etc. Same with the antiwar protests under Bush. I think this is an important reminder that Glenn Beck's boogey men really do exist although he greatly exaggerates their importance and influence. They are real and they do exist.

Beck's boogey men include such threats as npr, planned parenthood, pbs, abortion doctors, AGW, evolution, ACORN, secularists, etc. So no, most of his boogey men aren't real, the threats he claims they embody don't exist.

637 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:42:41am

re: #635 Killgore Trout

It wouldn't be too hard to see who applied for the permits

Some people think they can assemble where ever they want without regard to local ordinances.

638 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:43:20am

re: #634 Killgore Trout

Yeah, actually I had heard that dippy dude down in the East Village saying "anonymous occupied Wall Street", which is exactly the wrong public face to have on a protest. Anonymous thinks that people think that they're cool, I guess.

All I'm trying to point out is that the protesters, no matter how personally crappy, have a perfectly valid point about Wall Street having escaped the meltdown relatively unscathed, and about them still being a massive goddamn problem.

But yeah, flicking through the pictures i see a ton of ANSWER signs and a bunch calling for an end to capitalism. And I don't see any coherent message, but the most professional-looking signs are the ones from ANSWER and communists.

Great.

I also am seeing people acting all shocked about one clip that shows a kid in a red shirt getting wrestled to the ground and arrested for 'talking to a cop'. It's pretty damn clear he touched the cop, and any touch like that is a stupid, stupid mistake. It breaks the nonviolence.

Nonviolence may be hard to maintain, but that's part of what made it so effective when used. Nonviolence shows dignity, it shows self-restraint, it shows cohesion and the power of community in holding to an ideal. That's one reason why photos like this are so powerful:

Image: ATM-Object-Greensboro-Woolworth-lunch-counter-631.jpg


Image: Dr-Martin-Luther-King-Jr.jpg

Image: 04_nonviolence_02.jpg

Image: flowerpowerboy475.jpg


Image: peaceful_protest_by_monks_in_burma.jpg

639 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:46:53am

The most common preprinted signs at the protest like these ones....
Image: 910x.jpg


seem to be from the Worker's World party

WWP describes itself as a party that has, since its founding, "supported the struggles of all oppressed peoples". It has recognized the right of nations to self-determination, including the nationally oppressed peoples inside the United States. It supports affirmative action as necessary in the fight for equality. As well, it opposes all forms of racism and religious bigotry. Workers World and YAWF were noted for their consistent defense of the Black Panthers and the Weather Underground along with Vietnam Veterans Against the War and the Puerto Rican Independence movement. Workers World Party was also an early advocate of gay rights, and remains active in this area.

They were also supporters of the Soviet Union and Mao's cultural revolution.
Here's their website; [Link: www.workers.org...]
Anti-capitalist, pro- Che, Pro Hamas, etc.
Fuck them.

640 RogueOne  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:50:03am

re: #637 Cannadian Club Akbar

Some people think they can assemble where ever they want without regard to local ordinances.

I can't imagine where people got the idea they had the right to assemble for political protests without being put in "free speech zones".

641 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:50:15am

re: #639 Killgore Trout

Heh. They also supported the soviet invasion of Afghanistan, which makes them dumb on two levels, given how destructive that invasion was to the USSR.

But yeah, that's a real problem. I'm a 'lefty', I guess, and I'm highly sympathetic to their basic message: The financial industry caused the meltdown and is still very dangerously unregulated. But if there are signs from communists and ANSWER as the most visible face of the protest, there's no way I want anything to do with it. At all.

642 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:51:08am

re: #639 Killgore Trout

McKinney, LOL. Fitting.

643 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:58:20am

When I think of the World Workers Party, it reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where:
-Elaine was dating a communist. And was "black listed" from a Chinese restaurant (delivery).
-Kramer got fired from playing Santa because he was quoting from WWP newspaper.
-George decided to reply to a singles ad in WWP newspaper because it said "looks not important", then Steinbrenner sent him to Cuba to scout a baseball player.
Heh.

644 Shropshire_Slasher  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 5:59:47am

re: #518 Sergey Romanov

645 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:04:36am

NYT: Gunning for Wall Street, With Faulty Aim

The group’s lack of cohesion and its apparent wish to pantomime progressivism rather than practice it knowledgably is unsettling in the face of the challenges so many of its generation face — finding work, repaying student loans, figuring out ways to finish college when money has run out. But what were the chances that its members were going to receive the attention they so richly deserve carrying signs like “Even if the World Were to End Tomorrow I’d Still Plant a Tree Today”?

One day, a trader on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Adam Sarzen, a decade or so older than many of the protesters, came to Zuccotti Park seemingly just to shake his head. “Look at these kids, sitting here with their Apple computers,” he said. “Apple, one of the biggest monopolies in the world. It trades at $400 a share. Do they even know that?”

646 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:07:49am

re: #641 Obdicut

I'm a 'lefty', I guess, and I'm highly sympathetic to their basic message: The financial industry caused the meltdown and is still very dangerously unregulated. But if there are signs from communists and ANSWER as the most visible face of the protest, there's no way I want anything to do with it. At all.

I'm pissed at wall street too but I just can't muster any sympathy for the protests. I was opposed to the Iraq war too but I had nothing in common with the rest of the folks opposed to it. If you think about it the Tea Party is the same thing. Their cause ("fiscal responsibility") is not totally unjustified but ideology is complete bullshit.

647 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:09:08am

re: #645 Killgore Trout

Heh. The environmentalist where I used to work who's job it was to promote sustainability and the like enthused about Apple. I discreetly showed her all of the reports showing how fucking terrible their environmental record was.

All that shiny white plastic doesn't come without a cost.

She also didn't understand why her stainless steel mug wasn't eco-friendly. "But it's re-useable"!

Sure. But the bamboo-sourced paper cups that we use are sustainable. Stainless steel is not sustainable. It shouldn't be used for things that can be sourced sustainably.

One of the largest problems for environmentalism is that it's not easy.

648 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:11:03am

re: #646 Killgore Trout

Well, I'd say these protesters are protesting something a lot more real than the tea party people are. The Tea Party is protesting a bunch of made-up crap, a lot of the time, things that have no bearing on reality. Their idea of fiscal responsibility is often absolute fiscal madness.

But even though the problem is very real, the solution of ANSWER and the WWP is not anything I can ever back in the slightest. So in regards to proposed solutions, yeah, both groups-- as identified by their most visible members-- are useless.

649 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:12:20am

LIVE WALL STREET! #OccupyWallStreet #Sep17
Talking about Bradley Manning now.

650 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:17:25am

re: #648 Obdicut
That's one of my problems with the "left" label used for the Americal liberal left. Within a narrow context of American blogs and newspapers we may "get" what this means. But one can't really get away from the expanded (and more original) meaning of "the left". These people we're discussing are the left. True blue left. They're not liberals. The liberal part of the "liberal left" for me dominates the "left" part. And talking about "the left" opens up the door to connecting the American liberal left to various Castros and Chavezes of this world.

651 Shropshire_Slasher  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:18:54am

Making waffles for breakfast, but I'm kicking it up a notch and adding peanut butter chips, yum!

652 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:19:06am

re: #650 Sergey Romanov

IOW that social liberalism coincides with leftism in the US is pretty incidental, IMHO.

653 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:25:01am

re: #652 Sergey Romanov

Yeah. It's more of the problem of assigning things on a dualistic scale or any coordinate system, really.

My parents are social conservatives, who are against gay marriage and probably against any government funding for abortion; I don't know, I've never really asked them because I know we disagree violently. But they vote, consistently, for the 'liberals'-- both because they're less radical, and because my parents take all the dictates of their religion, including being good to the poor first and foremost, equally seriously. They may feel strongly about gay marriage personally, and abortion, but they understand the former is one of historical inevitability and the latter is something that is not something that can be halted legislatively.

So instead, they concentrate on what they believe government can achieve which is in line with their religion; helping the poor and the needy, binding us together as a community, providing education to all.

So what are they? They're certainly social conservatives. But they vote for Democrats almost exclusively. They hold both socially conservative and socially liberal views, and there's no inconsistency whatsoever in them for doing so.

The partisan left/right scale benefits nobody but the politicians who can use it to get easy, dependable votes.

654 Shropshire_Slasher  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:29:33am

re: #653 Obdicut

So I'm guessing Mennonites or Unitarians?!/

655 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:31:20am

re: #654 Shropshire_Slasher

Catholics.

And so also quite sensitive to separation of church and state and how important that is for the protection of religion.

656 Shropshire_Slasher  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:35:02am

re: #655 Obdicut

I'm glad they weren't them shifty Mennonites/
Yeah my parents are hard core RC's, I was force fed it till I got out of the house, my kids don't go to any church ( which I think is a mistake ,but I hate church)
They donate heavily (10%) and probably have a few plaques on the church walls.

657 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 6:56:45am

re: #617 Cannadian Club Akbar

Saudi Arabia destroys cultural sites because of the Wahhabism. They believe it will lead to Shirk.

Around the time of the Ottoman-Saudi War, they even attempted to destroy Muhammad's (PBUH) tomb.

658 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:11:04am

I'm awake, have to go to work.

I could go back to bed, tho, and fall right to sleep.

How is everyone?

659 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:20:57am

re: #658 ggt

I'm awake, have to go to work.

I could go back to bed, tho, and fall right to sleep.

How is everyone?

I woke up at 4 this morning and just decided to start my day. Not even tired but I suppose I'll be ready for a nap some time this afternoon.

660 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:22:08am

re: #655 Obdicut

Catholics.

And so also quite sensitive to separation of church and state and how important that is for the protection of religion.

IIRC, one of the first separation of Church and State laws was in the 12th century by a Pope. It was a power play to keep the various "kings" out of the Church business. Can't remember the specifics.

661 Obdicut  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:22:50am

God. Listening to NPR fail to challenge an asshole lying GOP guy about voter fraud. They're so damn wimpy it annoys me.

He claimed it was hard to find an American without a valid ID for voting. Complete and total lie. Its easy. Go to any college campus or any retirement home. Ask a random person. Good chance they won't have an ID valid for voting.

The failure of the media to challenge lies is an enormous problem.

662 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:24:26am

re: #661 Obdicut

God. Listening to NPR fail to challenge an asshole lying GOP guy about voter fraud. They're so damn wimpy it annoys me.

He claimed it was hard to find an American without a valid ID for voting. Complete and total lie. Its easy. Go to any college campus or any retirement home. Ask a random person. Good chance they won't have an ID valid for voting.

The failure of the media to challenge lies is an enormous problem.

When I have to card to ring alcohol a great many don't have an ID on them.
"It's in the car . . ".

Why do people leave their wallets/purse in the car?

663 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:28:22am

I see that Saudi women just got electoral rights. Well, at least something.

664 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:30:20am

re: #663 Sergey Romanov

I see that Saudi women just got electoral rights. Well, at least something.

But they can't drive to the polls. . .

665 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:30:43am

I'm off

Have a great day all!

666 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:34:41am

re: #663 Sergey Romanov

I see that Saudi women just got electoral rights. Well, at least something.

Meh. The Magic Kingdon is not a democracy. The only votes are for symbolic local councils who "advise" the royals. They have no power or authority and are just window dressing.

667 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:37:36am

re: #663 Sergey Romanov

I see that Saudi women just got electoral rights. Well, at least something.

I wonder if their ballots will be placed in 'special" boxes to be counted at a later date

Like a month or so after the "elections"

668 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:45:16am
669 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 7:54:42am

GGGGAAAHHHHH

My boss just caused me a TON of grief (read,, extra work)

In his defense, he thought he was "helping" me

670 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:04:36am

re: #663 Sergey Romanov

I see that Saudi women just got electoral rights. Well, at least something.

Slow Saudi progress, while Florida does slow decay.

Sharia convergence.

671 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:16:08am

REINE

ummm,, your last FB entry
some totally useless, yet amusing trivia about critters
You REALLY need to get another hobby!!

LOL

672 darthstar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:20:36am

Mornin' rabble...

Well, yesterday's attempt to stay home and do chores was scuttled by a trip to Marin to see carbon fiber road bikes and get my wife fitted for one...then the fitting didn't happen so it was back to the peninsula to look at more carbon. But today is all mine. Or so I thought. I still have about five hours or so...then my nephew, who just instant messaged me, is coming over because he wants to go fishing...started with his saying he was going fishing with a friend today. I told him to stop by and say hi. He said I could join him if his friend can't go. I said, sure, maybe in the afternoon. He then said his friend can't come, so it'll just be me and him. Trapped.

My wife thought it was quite funny. He's a good kid though, and I've wanted to try surf casting on this spot down the beach where the water seems to get deep closer to shore.

673 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:22:50am

Verse (1 Corinthians 15:51) on the wall at my daughter's church nursery:

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

674 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:34:15am

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. That was the biggest factor in the housing crisis and it has yet to be really resolved.

No, it was not the biggest factor in the housing crisis. It was a small factor, probably a very small factor.

676 Lidane  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:36:26am

Dear non-techie friends & family,

Please bookmark Snopes.com and check it before you panic about things you read in your e-mail or on the internet and post about them on Facebook or forward an obvious scam to me in my e-mail inbox.

I still love you, but basic bits of research are a good thing. Thanks!

Me

677 Digital Display  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:39:07am

I don't know.. Sometimes I just can't stand David Gregory interviews on MTP.. If I was his producer this morning on segment one I would have slapped that smug face of his..And told him we would like an interview not him being a PA mouthpiece..
See why I'll never be a producer for MBC? I'd knock somebody out on a Sunday Morning..:)

678 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:39:57am

re: #362 lostlakehiker

Same thing played out with respect to "Fair Housing". An emotional objective, getting people into houses, trumped reason and tradition that dictated loans should not be written to borrowers who stand little chance of making their payments.

In the name of helping the poor and minorities, both were shafted royally and on top of that, the rest of the economy took a huge hit. For details, see the book by a couple of New York Times liberals, Reckless Endangerment.

This is a meme that won't die, meant to diss the CRA.

679 Mocking Jay  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:41:03am

re: #676 Lidane

Dear non-techie friends & family,

Please bookmark Snopes.com and check it before you panic about things you read in your e-mail or on the internet and post about them on Facebook or forward an obvious scam to me in my e-mail inbox.

I still love you, but basic bits of research are a good thing. Thanks!

Me

Yeah, one relative of mine posted the "FACEBOOK WILL START CHARGING" thing on her status.

sigh

680 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:42:19am

re: #384 tshinkle

but it was caused by loaning money to people who didn't (couldn't?) pay it back.

This is a meme born of ignorance. We could explore it next time your return.

681 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:44:19am

re: #435 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

States rights conservatism: when all else fails, blame the nonwhites for protesting whites-only housing policies. e_e

Bullshit and lies again.

/drive-by post

682 Lidane  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:50:39am

re: #679 JasonA

Yeah, one relative of mine posted the "FACEBOOK WILL START CHARGING" thing on her status.

sigh

I had three or four different relatives and high school friends post that nonsense. I actually had to post the Snopes link debunking it last night just to put the kibosh on it.

683 Digital Display  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:51:34am

I'm not sure why Donna Shalila is on MTP talking about education reform.. She talks a good game...She runs one of the most corrupt colleges in America.. What a joke..I guess the producers couldn't find a president of a fine University.. Stanford, Cal, Northwestern or any Ivy School..
University of Miami? If I don't stop laughing I'm going to fall off the couch and hurt myself

684 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 8:59:26am

re: #452 000G

Even the name is wrong. "Securitized" my ass. Just a sales-trick, because nobody would buy crap that would appropriately be called "Insufficiently Collateralized Debt Obligations".

This whole process of misleading investment schemes being conflated with traditional low-profile lending businesses, of course, also points to the repeal of Glass-Steagal...


The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms.[4][5][6][7][8][9]

CRA was a drop in the bucket compared to this.

685 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:01:00am

Wifey insists our son take a healthy snack to school each day

A piece of fruit ,,, a handful of grapes ,, , a couple of granola bars ,,,

SO ,, he tells me this morning his car is almost out of gas. Being the good dad I am I decide to take his car to work today and fill-er-up

Lo and behold, whats in the back seat of the car?

A weeks worth of tupperware with "healthy snacks" in them ,,ALL having sat in a hot car day after day

Ahh ,, ,teenage boys!!

686 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:05:00am

re: #685 sattv4u2

Wifey insists our son take a healthy snack to school each day

A piece of fruit ,,, a handful of grapes ,, , a couple of granola bars ,,,

SO ,, he tells me this morning his car is almost out of gas. Being the good dad I am I decide to take his car to work today and fill-er-up

Lo and behold, whats in the back seat of the car?

A weeks worth of tupperware with "healthy snacks" in them ,,ALL having sat in a hot car day after day

Ahh ,, ,teenage boys!!

ROFL!
I can't believe he didn't bother to hide them.

My daughter used to love the microwave Kraft mac 'n cheese. So I got them for her, figuring it was a snack she liked that she could fix for herself.

Well - I started finding these packets of macaroni hidden all around - not the cheese flavoring, which is what she really wanted and all she ate - just the macaroni packets. I still from time to time find a batch of these in some hidey-hole.

687 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:10:25am

re: #686 reine.de.tout

I can't believe he didn't bother to hide them.

Out of sight, out of mind


In the mornings when he gets into the car, I think he just tossed each tupperware into the backseat and forgot about them

Some were on the seat,, others were on the floor under the seat,, and yet others were back in the cargo area (it's an SUV)

not the cheese flavoring, which is what she really wanted and all she ate

Thats just ,,,,, weird!!

:)

688 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:14:59am

re: #687 sattv4u2

...

not the cheese flavoring, which is what she really wanted and all she ate

Thats just ,,, weird!!

:)

She was a difficult child to raise, but she's turning out just fine.
And suddenly she seems to sort of like me, and tolerates me.

689 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:18:20am

re: #688 reine.de.tout

She was a difficult child to raise, but she's turning out just fine.
And suddenly she seems to sort of like me, and tolerates me.

We found it helps if you're president of the Bank of Mommy.

690 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:23:36am

re: #689 Decatur Deb

We found it helps if you're president of the Bank of Mommy.

Well, yes indeed - I think that's a big part of it right now.

691 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:23:41am

re: #684 BigPapa

The meme is it wrecked the economy. The truth is it wrecked some banks and many, many low middle class consumer lives. Loans without strict means testing are fools errands.

692 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:26:12am

re: #678 BigPapa

This is a meme that won't die, meant to diss the CRA.

It's another form of the same old scapegoating, of the same old targets, from the same old corner; same old recycled anti-Reconstruction arguments.

693 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:26:32am

re: #684 BigPapa


The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms.[4][5][6][7][8][9]

CRA was a drop in the bucket compared to this.

Neither thing should have ever happened. The rationale was to soften a previous recession. Now we know how that turned out.

694 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:28:31am

re: #693 Rightwingconspirator

Neither thing should have ever happened. The rationale was to soften a previous recession. Now we know how that turned out.

The CRA has been around since the late 70s. It's always been an easy target.

695 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:30:00am

re: #692 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So once we set aside the meme that it was the big cause of the crash, we should acknowledge how that program failed the people that got sucked in on what we now know were false promises.

Too many people want to dismiss the real lessons because of the meme. A mistake sure to set us up for a repeat fail.

696 jaunte  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:31:04am

re: #678 BigPapa

This is a meme that won't die, meant to diss the CRA.

Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

“I’ve never seen the wealthy hit like this before,” Mr. Lowman said. “They made their plans based on the best of all possible scenarios — that their incomes would continue to grow, that real estate would never drop. Not many had a plan B.”

697 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:32:52am

re: #694 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It has wasted money all too often. That's a significant factor in the criticism. Seen it for myself in my zip code.

698 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:33:53am

re: #691 Rightwingconspirator

The meme is it wrecked the economy. The truth is it wrecked some banks and many, many low middle class consumer lives. Loans without strict means testing are fools errands.

What wrecked some banks, Glass Steagall or CRA?

699 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:36:11am

re: #696 jaunte

Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

I work in and around luxury resorts for the ultra wealthy. There were many defaults and foreclosures there. Some were due to people pushing the limits with their investments, but I believe some don't care if they default or get knocks to their credit.

700 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:38:03am

re: #698 BigPapa

The home loans with inadequate/nearly nonexistent means tests, and whatever made them happen. The people involved took huge hits there. Like the rest of us who believed in the big "meme" if you will was that housing values could not crash as they did. Reasons cited varied, population gain, location, immigration etc. Wrong as could be. The more wealthy had a better shot at recovering from a hit like that. Anyone else, not so much.

701 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:38:12am

re: #695 Rightwingconspirator

So once we set aside the meme that it was the big cause of the crash, we should acknowledge how that program failed the people that got sucked in on what we now know were false promises.

Too many people want to dismiss the real lessons because of the meme. A mistake sure to set us up for a repeat fail.

I agree with that. The '00s "Ownership Society" meme , as it were, was a rather stupid one. It wasn't just the poor and minorities who fell for it, either.

The CRA was primarily against predatory lending, which I believe is why it is so deeply resented. I consider the derivatives scam to be predatory lending. The CRA wasn't responsible for that scam.

702 jaunte  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:39:35am

re: #699 BigPapa

I think people who have more money tend to take a more practical approach to contracts; if it's to their advantage to walk away from a deal, they'll take the penalty and move on.

703 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:39:57am

re: #701 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No I agree that has nothing to do with the CRA. The CRA is a good idea when well implemented. And when budgets can swing it. (See Gov. Jerry Browns statements on that)

[Link: blogs.laweekly.com...]

704 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:42:02am

re: #700 Rightwingconspirator

The home loans with inadequate/nearly nonexistent means tests, and whatever made them happen. The people involved took huge hits there. Like the rest of us who believed in the big "meme" if you will was that housing values could not crash as they did. Reasons cited varied, population gain, location, immigration etc. Wrong as could be. The more wealthy had a better shot at recovering from a hit like that. Anyone else, not so much.

Oh, yah. I thought you meant CRA. I worked in housing in CA in the late 90's and was shocked by how easy it was to get a loan, and how it seemed people were making money by their housing values going up and for no other reason. And people who didn't buy would not be able to afford the higher values.

Even then, when I didn't have my head around the whole deal, I sensed it was unsustainable. So I did the smart thing: bought right at the top!

705 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:44:39am

re: #702 jaunte

I think people who have more money tend to take a more practical approach to contracts; if it's to their advantage to walk away from a deal, they'll take the penalty and move on.

Exactly. They can afford to take an 'oh screw it' attitude to a loan because they know there will be collateral in the future when they make another move, unlike those of us who need good credit to get better rates. 1 or 2 percentage points on a mortgage is not a big deal to them. I'm pretty confident some of that was going on in my market.

706 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:44:52am

re: #631 Cannadian Club Akbar

The black-masked anarchist LOVE WTO events, don't they? (I know this isn't a WTO event, I'm just sayin')

Google canada AND provocateurs

707 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:45:00am

re: #704 BigPapa

Oh ouch! That had to hurt. I'm too financially conservative. When a proposed mortgage was 35% of our combined net, I stopped right there. I missed out on my "big chance to get property" rich. So I'm a lowly renter, but never been bankrupt.

708 Kronocide  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:49:44am

re: #707 Rightwingconspirator

Oh ouch! That had to hurt. I'm too financially conservative. When a proposed mortgage was 35% of our combined net, I stopped right there. I missed out on my "big chance to get property" rich. So I'm a lowly renter, but never been bankrupt.

It's not too bad, I bought in Hawaii which in this bad economy did not get nailed like Phoenix, CA, or other areas that dropped 50%. We're still in our house but bottomed out, maybe a tad on the way back up. We'll be above water in a few years and I have steady work so I'm not about to be worried. But gone are the days of moving into a new larger house every 3 to 5 years just because.

709 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:50:19am

re: #643 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I think of the World Workers Party, it reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where:
-Elaine was dating a communist. And was "black listed" from a Chinese restaurant (delivery).
-Kramer got fired from playing Santa because he was quoting from WWP newspaper.
-George decided to reply to a singles ad in WWP newspaper because it said "looks not important", then Steinbrenner sent him to Cuba to scout a baseball player.
Heh.

710 darthstar  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:53:16am

Grover does the Old Spice ad

711 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 9:54:09am

re: #703 Rightwingconspirator

No I agree that has nothing to do with the CRA. The CRA is a good idea when well implemented. And when budgets can swing it. (See Gov. Jerry Browns statements on that)

[Link: blogs.laweekly.com...]

I agree with him about the uselessness of redevelopment agencies, but for perhaps far different reasons than that page (I've read it before.) The CRA was implemented, or at least, in theory, meant as an anti-segregation/redlining measure.

Here in SF, we have a prominent city park named after the head of the SF Redevelopment Agency which gutted then called itself renewing the Fillmore/Western Addition district, starting a couple years after WW2. It's only now started to recover in the past 4-5 years or so.

Very very very long and infurating story but if you're not familiar: [Link: www.pbs.org...]

712 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:02:56am

re: #684 BigPapa


The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms.[4][5][6][7][8][9]

CRA was a drop in the bucket compared to this.

Don't get me wrong: The repeal of Glass-Steagall also meant that a lot of people were suddenly able to get much better rates from their banks by virtue of their savings turning into investments... People were able to acquire wealth much quicker than before. Well, it also meant that their money could flow away from them as quickly as it had been flowing in.

713 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:05:36am

re: #707 Rightwingconspirator

Oh ouch! That had to hurt. I'm too financially conservative. When a proposed mortgage was 35% of our combined net, I stopped right there. I missed out on my "big chance to get property" rich. So I'm a lowly renter, but never been bankrupt.

I know what you mean. I don't know how many "let us help you refinance your mortgage!!!"-type of robocalls during those years.

We used to laugh, because we rent, in quite a so-called "desirable" e_e area. I considered it a function of that predatory lending, because I know they were going strictly by zip code. The whole attitude against such a wide swath of consumers was disgusting...then the news came out about the derivatives scandal. It was just nauseating.

714 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:05:37am

re: #707 Rightwingconspirator

Oh ouch! That had to hurt. I'm too financially conservative. When a proposed mortgage was 35% of our combined net, I stopped right there. I missed out on my "big chance to get property" rich. So I'm a lowly renter, but never been bankrupt.

I pushed the envelope more than I wanted too. When we bought here in Atlanta I was at just about 41% of net (location location location)

But we put about 15% down and had a cushion (savings) justincase

715 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:07:40am

re: #714 sattv4u2

((primary residence, btw))

716 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:07:49am

re: #699 BigPapa

I work in and around luxury resorts for the ultra wealthy. There were many defaults and foreclosures there. Some were due to people pushing the limits with their investments, but I believe some don't care if they default or get knocks to their credit.

Well, yeah. Rich people can afford to lose a fortune. They usually have a couple of others to surf on while looking for another way to make money.

717 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:10:15am

re: #702 jaunte

I think people who have more money tend to take a more practical approach to contracts; if it's to their advantage to walk away from a deal, they'll take the penalty and move on.

It's not so much a more practical approach, they can just afford to. As opposed to poor people, who get blacklisted from a lot of jobs or places to rent if they dare to fuck up even once.

718 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:14:21am

re: #717 000G

It's not so much a more practical approach, they can just afford to. As opposed to poor people, who get blacklisted from a lot of jobs or places to rent if they dare to fuck up even once.

That, and lower- and middle-income homeowners whose main wealth is the equity in their homes.

719 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:19:12am

re: #718 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That, and lower- and middle-income homeowners whose main wealth is the equity in their homes.

Yeah. Can't really diversify your asset portfolio above and beyond your home if all your income usually goes to just paying down the mortgage.

720 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:22:54am

When I first bought my house about 15 years ago my neighbor were rednecks. They bought their house in the about 1985 and payed something absurd like 20K for it. When I moved in the house was worth 140K. One of their sons, with ni high school diploma got a job with one of those shady home equity/refinance places. Unfortunately his family was one of his best customers. Every year they refinanced and took out equity. Each year the bought new and bigger pickup trucks and new and bigger boats. This went on for 6-7 years before they had to bail out. They bought an RV to live in and parked on some relative's lawn.
It's heartbreaking to think back about it.

721 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:23:52am

re: #711 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I agree with him about the uselessness of redevelopment agencies, but for perhaps far different reasons than that page (I've read it before.) The CRA was implemented, or at least, in theory, meant as an anti-segregation/redlining measure.

Here in SF, we have a prominent city park named after the head of the SF Redevelopment Agency which gutted then called itself renewing the Fillmore/Western Addition district, starting a couple years after WW2. It's only now started to recover in the past 4-5 years or so.

Very very very long and infurating story but if you're not familiar: [Link: www.pbs.org...]

I'm not familiar. BRB... I'll be back after I read through and run an errand or two.

722 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:24:25am

re: #719 000G

Yeah. Can't really diversify your asset portfolio above and beyond your home if all your income usually goes to just paying down the mortgage.

Funny..I was just about to say something very similar about diversifying. I'm still laffin at those "refinance your mortgage" calls from years ago. So ridiculous - how in the devil can I refinance my mortgage when I rent. Crikey!

723 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:24:47am

re: #358 tshinkle

Can I play too?

1. Since the globe hasn't warmed in several years then we shouldn't fundamentally change the US economy
2. Our totalitarian instincts say we must do whatever we can to fundamentally change the US economy
3. We need to change the verbiage from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" so even if the world cools instead of warms we still get to be right and control the economy.

Hey, thanks! It's always nice when a right wing parrot pops in and validates a post like this one, by completely failing to understand the point but still being incredibly smug and condescending.

724 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:25:10am

Well, it's not looking good for the frogs. We've had rain which usually gets them talking and I haven't heard anything. Luckily a few late bloomers took their time leaving the pond so there's still some hope that they may survive but the rats have eaten all the previous hatchlings. It's a real bummer.

725 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:27:19am

re: #724 Killgore Trout

Damn Kilgore that sucks something awful.

726 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:30:20am

re: #724 Killgore Trout

Sorry dude

727 laZardo  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:30:23am

Morning folks. Apparently President Obama will be having a fundraiser lunch at the Paramount Theater very close to where I live.

The black security SUVs are already parked outside, setting up security. No snipers yet though. Protesters are there too, there's one with a sign that says "Free Jason P", while the Tea Party (which apparently does exist in Seattle) is gathering on the corner opposite.

728 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:31:46am

re: #727 laZardo

Is it too late for you to scrape together $35,000 or so for a ticket and go have lunch!?!?

//

729 emcesq  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:34:00am

re: #553 000G

Karel Capek: Marsyas In Czech
I will be interesting what Google can do with translation to English
[Link: web2.mlp.cz...]

730 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:34:09am

There were 1-200 tadpoles, I still have hope that there will be some survivors.

731 laZardo  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:34:44am

Heh. A gaggle of bicycle cops gathering on the parking lot diagonally opposite the theater.

732 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:37:50am

re: #731 laZardo

Heh. A gaggle of bicycle cops gathering on the parking lot diagonally opposite the theater.

Is a "gaggle" bigger or smaller than a flock?

733 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 10:48:57am

re: #691 Rightwingconspirator

The meme is it wrecked the economy. The truth is it wrecked some banks and many, many low middle class consumer lives. Loans without strict means testing are fools errands.

The fact is that the vast, vast majority of the loans you're talking about were given out by firms not subject to the CRA, they were given out voluntarily and without strict regulatory oversight. There was a frenzy to loan out as much as possible, then make more money bundling and reselling the derived products with the magic of credit default swaps.

It’s telling that, amid all the recent recriminations, even lenders have not fingered CRA. That’s because CRA didn’t bring about the reckless lending at the heart of the crisis. Just as sub-prime lending was exploding, CRA was losing force and relevance. And the worst offenders, the independent mortgage companies, were never subject to CRA—or any federal regulator. Law didn’t make them lend. The profit motive did.

And that is not political correctness. It is correctness.

734 CuriousLurker  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:16:45pm

re: #624 Obdicut

It may be, actually, why we try so hard not to destroy religious sites; so that we're not acting like a bunch of Wahhabi.

And it may be why the terrorists hide so cavalierly inside mosques and other sites; because to them, they're expendable, just like the people inside them are.

This does raise the question of how Wahhabi view Mecca as a whole. Maybe CuriousLurker will know.

I don't know if you'll be back to read this, but I'll respond anyway.

I have no idea how the Wahhabis view Mecca as a whole. There are certain sites that would be considered sacrosanct by pretty much any Muslim--i.e. the Kaaba, Mount Arafat, etc.--any place that's required to visit to complete the Hajj. Generally speaking though, I would the whole city is considered sacred (like Jerusalem).

I find it amusing that they take issue with historical sites & shrines because they might encourage "shirq" (idolatry), yet they have to problem with the government building luxurious shrines in homage to the idols of material excess and status.

The whole point of the Hajj is oneness, unity, regardless of one's station in life (hence the sea of white garments). It's about recognizing that oneness and approaching it with humility, understanding that one's deeds are the only thing that makes one better or worse than the next person.

IMO, in keeping with the spirit of the Hajj all accommodations should be equal, that way the poor laborer from Yemen who saved all his life to make the trip, gets the same lodging & treatment as the wealthy prince from the oil sheikhdom who can make the trip whenever he pleases. But, hey, where there are pilgrims there is money to be made, and where there is money, greed is sure to follow.

735 CuriousLurker  Sun, Sep 25, 2011 2:24:41pm

re: #570 Sergey Romanov

Logged out: CuriousLurker

Logged in: CuriousLurker

Hey! That was quick.

re: #577 000G

She logs in, she logs out.

You can't explain that.

Stop stalking meeeee!!11! //


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2021-06-05 2:51 pm PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Train Songs Ten
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
22 hours, 22 minutes ago
Views: 110 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Nine
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
22 hours, 28 minutes ago
Views: 108 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Eight
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
22 hours, 48 minutes ago
Views: 136 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Seven
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
22 hours, 51 minutes ago
Views: 107 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Six
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
22 hours, 56 minutes ago
Views: 106 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Five
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 542 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 6
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Four
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 541 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Train Songs Three
A hollow voice says Vaccinate the world!
1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 494 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Tweets: 0 •
Snarky Puppy - Trinity (Extended Version) Snarky Puppy never lets you down, they always come out bright and enthusiastically high on the sounds. Snarky Puppy - Trinity (Extended Version)From Snarky Puppy's new album, Empire Central (September 2022, GroundUP Music)Stream/Buy: orcd.co Written by Mark LettieriArranged by ...
Thanos
1 week, 6 days ago
Views: 779 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 2 •