Here’s a Tuesday night open thread, as Andrew Breitbart totally tweaks out once again, asking his followers to pile on and insult me on Twitter: Twitter / @AndrewBreitbart: I need help characterizing …
I need help characterizing pathetic race-baiting piece of human excrement @lizardoid in less provocative language.
1 |
austin_blue Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:44:45pm |
I love the new thread smell...
Wait, those are Volatile Organic Compounds?
Oh, never mind.
| 2 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:44:52pm |
Somebody needs to call the WAAAAAMBULANCE. Maybe they'll help put the mask back on.
| 3 |
emcesq Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:44:57pm |
Reminds me of stupid school fights started by bullies and losers.
| 4 |
avanti Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:45:40pm |
"A powerful Republican leader in the Alabama Senate apologized Tuesday for referring to blacks as "aborigines" on recordings played during a federal gambling corruption trial."
"State Democratic chairman Mark Kennedy said Beason's remarks were part of an embarrassing record that includes sponsoring Alabama's tough new law cracking down on illegal immigration. Kennedy also pointed to Beason saying during a GOP meeting that the party should "empty the clip" and do what it takes to control illegal immigration."
| 5 |
Coracle Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:47:01pm |
This is _more_ childish than usenet ever was. Forget highschool. This is grade school crap.
| 8 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:49:55pm |
re: #5 Coracle
This is _more_ childish than usenet ever was. Forget highschool. This is grade school crap.
That's why I'm ignoring it. I had my fill of that shit bad then and I don't want to deal with it again.
Andrew Breitbart is scum. End story.
| 9 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:51:37pm |
re: #8 Dark_Falcon
That's why I'm ignoring it. I had my fill of that shit bad then and I don't want to deal with it again.
Andrew Breitbart is scum. End story.
heh...hold onto your socks...AB is here for a while
| 10 |
austin_blue Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:52:14pm |
I need help characterizing pathetic race-baiting piece of human excrement @lizardoid in less provocative language.
Translation: He's got my website by the balls in repeating my posters' actual comments! Can't someone rid me of this troublesome LizardKing?!?!?
| 11 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:55:48pm |
Last hour of Zatoichi is on. It's almost 4am............DAMN.
| 12 |
austin_blue Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:57:24pm |
re: #11 wozzablog
Last hour of Zatoichi is on. It's almost 4am...DAMN.
You're in GMT. SLEEP, Wozzablog, SLEEP.
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 7:59:00pm |
re: #9 albusteve
heh...hold onto your socks...AB is here for a while
Says the guy who was happy when Michael Vick broke his hand and the Eagles lost to the Giants.
| 14 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:00:48pm |
Andrew? listen up big boy..i've been blogging for 6 or 7 years..I'm not a big shot like you but I've never had to beg others to defend me on the Internet or offer words in defense.
Grow up wuzzy
| 15 |
avanti Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:02:37pm |
The American Family association guy got a call from a guy about the government stock piling food and the sky might be falling.
"Well, today I received a phone call that blew me away. I debated for quite a while before I decided whether or not to share this information with you all. Normally I do not like to talk about anything unless I am able to prove it by pointing to an article in the mainstream media. But the source of the information that I am about to share with you is rock solid. I cannot reveal his name, so you will just have to trust me on that. Hopefully the following information will be one more "dot" as we all try to connect the dots about what is really going on out there. "
| 16 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:02:50pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
Says the guy who was happy when Michael Vick broke his hand and the Eagles lost to the Giants.
I hate em all...but the Eagles are really special...they're fans are sub human, just ask them...I have
| 17 |
BongCrodny Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:06:11pm |
Seven retweets in 42 minutes must be a little embarrassing, no?
| 18 |
compound idaho Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:06:22pm |
re: #15 avanti
The American Family association guy got a call from a guy about the government stock piling food and the sky might be falling.
"Well, today I received a phone call that blew me away. I debated for quite a while before I decided whether or not to share this information with you all. Normally I do not like to talk about anything unless I am able to prove it by pointing to an article in the mainstream media. But the source of the information that I am about to share with you is rock solid. I cannot reveal his name, so you will just have to trust me on that. Hopefully the following information will be one more "dot" as we all try to connect the dots about what is really going on out there. "
Lots of LDS around here so I know where to go for my year supply of food. Any thoughts on where to go for my year supply of beer?
| 19 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:06:47pm |
re: #12 austin_blue
You're in GMT. SLEEP, Wozzablog, SLEEP.
I think I shall.
Just applied for a bunch of jobs and sorted my email.
Ahead of myself for tomorrow now.
| 20 |
makeitstop Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:06:48pm |
re: #15 avanti
The American Family association guy got a call from a guy about the government stock piling food and the sky might be falling.
"Well, today I received a phone call that blew me away. I debated for quite a while before I decided whether or not to share this information with you all. Normally I do not like to talk about anything unless I am able to prove it by pointing to an article in the mainstream media. But the source of the information that I am about to share with you is rock solid. I cannot reveal his name, so you will just have to trust me on that. Hopefully the following information will be one more "dot" as we all try to connect the dots about what is really going on out there. "
| 21 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:07:38pm |
re: #15 avanti
The American Family association guy got a call from a guy about the government stock piling food and the sky might be falling.
"Well, today I received a phone call that blew me away. I debated for quite a while before I decided whether or not to share this information with you all. Normally I do not like to talk about anything unless I am able to prove it by pointing to an article in the mainstream media. But the source of the information that I am about to share with you is rock solid. I cannot reveal his name, so you will just have to trust me on that. Hopefully the following information will be one more "dot" as we all try to connect the dots about what is really going on out there. "
I bet Alex Jones' booker* already has a call into that guy.
*: A 'booker' is the person who books guests for a TV or radio show. I put in this explanation to ensure no one thinks I meant "booky".
| 22 |
BongCrodny Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:07:51pm |
I need help characterizing pathetic race-baiting piece of human excrement @lizardoid in less provocative language.
Well, that lets out his website.
| 23 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:09:54pm |
I need help characterizing pathetic race-baiting piece of human excrement @lizardoid in less provocative language.
Poor me!!
/butthurt
| 25 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:11:39pm |
re: #8 Dark_Falcon
That's why I'm ignoring it. I had my fill of that shit bad then and I don't want to deal with it again.
Andrew Breitbart is scum. End story.
Actually, it's not the end of story, because he's stoking the next generation of GOP's confederate contingent.
| 26 |
compound idaho Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:11:45pm |
re: #18 compound idaho
Lots of LDS around here so I know where to go for my year supply of food. Any thoughts on where to go for my year supply of beer?
PS That is a lot of beer.
| 27 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:12:20pm |
| 28 |
compound idaho Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:13:03pm |
| 29 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:13:39pm |
| 30 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:14:49pm |
More than 100 tar-sands activists politely arrested in polite Canadian protest
Protestors climbed over a police fence to swarm the building, but they lined up neatly to go over one at a time, using ladders (provided by the authorities!) and proper ladder safety. So Canadian! It's kind of a surprise that they didn't just stand outside Parliament and cough pointedly.
| 31 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:15:13pm |
is there a ping pong table around here?...I need to slam
| 32 |
compound idaho Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:15:21pm |
If God watches out for drunks and fools. I figure I have both bases covered. Night all!
| 33 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:17:13pm |
re: #31 albusteve
is there a ping pong table around here?...I need to slam
Ping pong rocks.. Love playing it.. I'm like Forrest Gump
/
| 34 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:20:45pm |
re: #33 HoosierHoops
Ping pong rocks.. Love playing it.. I'm like Forrest Gump
/
it does that...I didn't mean to sound too aggressive, but I suddenly feel like playing
| 36 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:22:33pm |
re: #34 albusteve
it does that...I didn't mean to sound too aggressive, but I suddenly feel like playing
We played it all the time in College.. It's a great sport... I'm a lefty so sometimes that drives people nuts
| 37 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:24:50pm |
re: #36 HoosierHoops
We played it all the time in College.. It's a great sport... I'm a lefty so sometimes that drives people nuts
whoa, my ex was a lefty...her net game was bad ass...we'd play strip pong, but her left backhand didn't keep her clothed...drool
| 38 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:28:46pm |
As a comedian, Andrew Breitbart should man up and learn to accept the heckling.
//
| 39 |
BaronHaynes Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:29:14pm |
He's looking to his followers for LESS provocative language? He really is delusional.
| 40 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:29:56pm |
In the blink of an eye, the conservative movement went from the erudite William F. Buckley to the buffoonery of Andy Breitbart.
| 41 |
engineer cat Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:30:05pm |
battle of the deadthreaded responses part III
re: #92 lawhawk
I responded down below, but I'll repost:
e: #178 engineer dog
I could tell you that he did cut funding for education from his first year's budget, but not only increased funding for the current fiscal year - but exceeded the budget amount from over the amount allotted during the Corzine administration's last budget. Much of the dispute over funding had to do with Abbott district and its expanded funding formula for certain urban areas. [so the way the education funding looks, it went from what would be x, then x-10, to x+.05, for the final Corzine budget, Christie's first year budget, and then the current fiscal year budget]
The courts have an outsized role in education funding to the point where I think that they're unconstitutionally imposing themselves into the legislative process - because they continue to misread the constitutional requirement for a thorough and efficient education as requiring money that the state simply doesn't have in its budget.
Christie has gone to great lengths to try and put the state's structural deficits to an end and to get spending under control and with the pension deal, which includes payments into the funds that have been avoided for a couple of years, he has managed to get a lot done on that front.
How he did it antagonized the education unions quite a bit. There was and remains quite a bit of animosity there - and also against Democrats who ended up cutting the education funding deal with Christie.
His performance during the flooding following Irene and Lee has shown that he knows how to manage natural disaster mitigation - and showed he can take charge of the situation and make sure that state resources are available and deployed, which was a major improvement over the perception that he failed during the blizzard last winter (when he was on vacation in Florida at the time).
"getting spending under control" always sounds like a laudable goal, but the way it's been practiced lately it always seems to mean firing a lot of hard working people or cutting their work benefits rather than more cost-efficiencies or finding the money elsewhere
thus, in an era of historically high unemployment, republicans repeatedly recommend firing even more people, or cutting money promised to them
in any case, i repeat my contention that his appeal to the gop surely has little to do with budget issues, and everything to do with the appeal of the animosity (as you admit) he shows to school teachers
the fact that he was unable to manage these budget issues without engendering so much animosity that it has made him famous does not to my mind speak well for him as a leader
| 42 |
darthstar Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:30:39pm |
| 43 |
Political Atheist Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:30:44pm |
re: #18 compound idaho
Lots of LDS around here so I know where to go for my year supply of food. Any thoughts on where to go for my year supply of beer?
Heh. Here.
| 45 |
freetoken Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:31:24pm |
The CJR critiques The Oklahoman newspaper, which was recently acquired by creationist and atavist sugar daddy Philip Anschutz:
How Not to Cover Your Paper’s New Owner
The Oklahoman recently profiled Philip Anschutz, who bought the paper from the Gaylord family, which had owned it for 108 years. Actually, “profile” is being kind—it’s more like a list of stuff Anschutz owns and a blog post about a four-minute YouTube video—and it left out essential background about the interests of its new billionaire owner.
[...]Most ridiculous of all: The Oklahoman disabled comments on every story it has published so far about Anschutz.
[...]
Anschutz funds the DiscoTute, among other things (which the CJR piece mentions.)
The people of Oklahoma are now safe from having one of their major newspapers ruffling their feathers with modernism.
| 46 |
freetoken Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:32:01pm |
re: #44 Gus 802
Andrew should consider getting on a Valium drip.
That reads like a really good tweet... if you were so inclined...
| 47 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:32:04pm |
re: #40 Gus 802
From "Cancel Your Own Goddamn Subscription" to "Please Help Me Clean Up My Language."
| 48 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:32:53pm |
re: #41 engineer dog
battle of the deadthreaded responses part III
"getting spending under control" always sounds like a laudable goal, but the way it's been practiced lately it always seems to mean firing a lot of hard working people or cutting their work benefits rather than more cost-efficiencies or finding the money elsewhere
thus, in an era of historically high unemployment, republicans repeatedly recommend firing even more people, or cutting money promised to themin any case, i repeat my contention that his appeal to the gop surely has little to do with budget issues, and everything to do with the appeal of the animosity (as you admit) he shows to school teachers
the fact that he was unable to manage these budget issues without engendering so much animosity that it has made him famous does not to my mind speak well for him as a leader
who?...where does this money come from elsewhere?
| 49 |
darthstar Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:34:52pm |
| 50 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:35:21pm |
re: #46 freetoken
That reads like a really good tweet... if you were so inclined...
Andy Breitbart has traded in his blue Snuggie®for white sheets!
;)
| 51 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:36:26pm |
September 26, 2011: In the last decade, the U.S. has purchased about ten million bullet proof ceramic composite plates (SAPI, for Small Arms Protective Inserts) for the protective vests troops wear. Why so many? It's because the plates are bullet-proof, but only once or twice. The plates will stop high-powered rifle bullets, but this weakens the plates, often causing them to crack or chip. So every time a plate is hit, it is discarded and a new one slipped into the vest. The brittleness of these plates means they can be cracked if dropped, or otherwise allowed to hit a hard surface. It’s an odd characteristic for plates that will stop high-powered 7.62mm bullets, but it works. The downside is that the plates are not particularly durable, and wear out quickly on the battlefield.
SNIP
The bolded part is the problem part:
All these plates are made of boron carbide ceramic with a spectra shield backing. This combination causes bullets to fragment and slow down before getting through the plate. Occasionally, some fragments will get through, but these are stopped by the layers of Kevlar that make up the flak jackets. The ceramic plates require a manufacturing process that uses, and produces, a lot of toxic chemicals. As a result of this, much of the production has moved to China.
So instead of actually dealing with the problems posed by producing something, America once again outsources the production to China. [facepalm]
| 52 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:36:42pm |
re: #40 Gus 802
Didn't Buckley once threaten to punch out Gore Vidal on TV for being gay? Sounds more like the mask is off.
| 53 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:38:14pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
SNIP
The bolded part is the problem part:So instead of actually dealing with the problems posed by producing something, America once again outsources the production to China. [facepalm]
face it...we are China's bitch
| 54 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:38:36pm |
re: #50 Gus 802
Andy Breitbart has traded in his blue Snuggie®for white sheets!
;)
Which will turn to yellow when he wets himself over his latest bogus video getting revealed as a forgery.
Shithead doesn't even cover it.
| 55 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:38:42pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
SNIP
The bolded part is the problem part:So instead of actually dealing with the problems posed by producing something, America once again outsources the production to China. [facepalm]
When Americans can't even make a profit building the tools of war we really are in a hole....
| 56 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:38:51pm |
re: #52 laZardo
Didn't Buckley once threaten to punch out Gore Vidal on TV for being gay? Sounds more like the mask is off.
That's not the way I remember that. Iit was because Gore Vidal kept calling him a crypto-fascist. They both went at it for a couple of minutes.
| 57 |
fubar Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:38:52pm |
I'm looking for more offensive ways in which to express my feelings towards Breitbart. Actually, his name conveys to me the act of flatulence that simultaneously expels gas and (unexpectedly) faecal matter, in a public place. I call it the Breitbart.
| 58 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:38:53pm |
re: #52 laZardo
He threatened to punch Vidal for calling him a "crypto-fascist."
| 60 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:39:26pm |
re: #52 laZardo
Didn't Buckley once threaten to punch out Gore Vidal on TV for being gay? Sounds more like the mask is off.
no, for being an asshole, which Vidal excelled at
| 61 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:39:44pm |
re: #57 fubar
I'm looking for more offensive ways in which to express my feelings towards Breitbart. Actually, his name conveys to me the act of flatulence that simultaneously expels gas and (unexpectedly) faecal matter, in a public place. I call it the Breitbart.
That would be a Breitshart. But it's your idea so it's your call.
| 62 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:42:47pm |
re: #52 laZardo
Didn't Buckley once threaten to punch out Gore Vidal on TV for being gay? Sounds more like the mask is off.
Not so much. Buckley did admit afterwards that he was wrong to have done that. Moreover, Buckley at least had the excuse that he was being continuously (and wrongly) goaded by Vidal's calling him a "Crypto-Nazi". Buckley lost his temper in response to relentless slander, which while not making his actions right does serve as a serious mitigating factor. Moreover, that failing by Buckley was a one-off, never to be repeated.
Andrew Breitbart be contrast, acts in this sort of hateful manner all the time. He lies constantly (Buckley was honest to a fault) and theatens whenever it suits him. So Buckley was nothing like him.
| 63 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:42:53pm |
Poor widdle Andy can't handle being called out for the pos he is.
| 64 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:44:13pm |
re: #42 darthstar
Looks like Perry will get to be the eddication president if he wins.
You do realize that the statistics confirm that home-schooled children generally outperform public-school wards, both on high-school knowledge, and later in college?
Home-schooling parents run the spectrum but they're concentrated toward the higher end, because those who are at the lower end quite sensibly have no confidence in their own ability to teach their kids geometry, physics, Shakespeare.
| 65 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:45:19pm |
re: #56 Gus 802
That's not the way I remember that. Iit was because Gore Vidal kept calling him a crypto-fascist. They both went at it for a couple of minutes.
That's what I've read. Really not too big on either guy honest, I appreciate that Buckley was a smart guy and called out the Birchers early but I can't say I am too big on his support at one time for segregation and McCarthy the latter I believe he never recanted. Not too big on Vidal either for that matter.
| 66 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:45:30pm |
Breitbart's man-ape followers will respond by smashing bones against rocks and profuse pounding of their chests with their furry fists.
| 67 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:45:56pm |
re: #52 laZardo
Didn't Buckley once threaten to punch out Gore Vidal on TV for being gay? Sounds more like the mask is off.
Buckley's exact words were:
Now listen up you goddamn queer! You call me a "Crypto-Nazi" one more time and I'll sock you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered!
So it was not about Vidal being gay, it was about Vidal's ugly and dishonest words. Again, not an excuse for the threat, just what it was really about.
| 68 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:46:17pm |
re: #64 lostlakehiker
You do realize that the statistics confirm that home-schooled children generally outperform public-school wards, both on high-school knowledge, and later in college?
Home-schooling parents run the spectrum but they're concentrated toward the higher end, because those who are at the lower end quite sensibly have no confidence in their own ability to teach their kids geometry, physics, Shakespeare.
your child belongs to the State...thanks anyway
| 70 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:47:06pm |
re: #66 Gus 802
Breitbart's man-ape followers will respond by smashing bones against rocks and profuse pounding of their chests with their furry fists.
Followed by the weekly Feces Fling.
| 71 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:49:12pm |
He could just tweet a request to stop posting incriminating racist crap on his website.
That would work just as well.
| 72 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:49:40pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
Followed by the weekly Feces Fling.
The sign reads, "please do not tease the monkeys."
| 73 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:50:11pm |
re: #71 EmmmieG
He could just tweet a request to stop posting incriminating racist crap on his website.
That would work just as well.
you do not understand addiction
| 75 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:52:07pm |
re: #74 jaunte
Rational. But will it attract eyeballs?
of course not...AB is a slave to his posters, not the other way around...one false step and they will consume him
| 76 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:52:18pm |
Check out this high-tech prosthetic for amputee cyclists
Design student Seth Astle just won the James Dyson award for Cadence, which helps give below-the-knee amputees the fluid leg movement necessary to pedal a bike efficiently.
| 77 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:52:20pm |
re: #71 EmmmieG
He could just tweet a request to stop posting incriminating racist crap on his website.
That would work just as well.
That would make too much sense for Andy and his ilk.
| 78 |
Interesting Times Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:52:51pm |
re: #67 Dark_Falcon
Buckley's exact words were:
Now listen up you goddamn queer! You call me a "Crypto-Nazi" one more time and I'll sock you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered!
So it was not about Vidal being gay...
Then why the epithet "queer"? Why not call him a jerk, asshole, or some other non-bigoted insult instead? What would you think of someone who said, "Now listen up you goddamn sp*c", or "listen up you goddamn k*ke?"
| 79 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:53:13pm |
re: #77 Gus 802
That would make too much sense for Andy and his ilk.
Dear devotees: Your habit of slinging poo all over my house has made it smell. Now my neighbor is pointing out that I never clean house and it smells of poo. Please stop. Thanks.
| 80 |
garhighway Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:54:19pm |
| 81 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:54:24pm |
re: #78 publicityStunted
So it was not about Vidal being gay...
Then why the epithet "queer"? Why not call him a jerk, asshole, or some other non-bigoted insult instead? What would you think of someone who said, "Now listen up you goddamn sp*c", or "listen up you goddamn k*ke?"
Vidal was a queer...you call me a Nazi, I call you a queer...those were the times
| 82 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:56:59pm |
re: #78 publicityStunted
So it was not about Vidal being gay...
Then why the epithet "queer"? Why not call him a jerk, asshole, or some other non-bigoted insult instead? What would you think of someone who said, "Now listen up you goddamn sp*c", or "listen up you goddamn k*ke?"
He wasn't thinking at the time. He was so pissed he just went off. He wasn't a hater of gays, but I think that Vidal pushed him so hard that Buckley's mind just latched onto the first hostile term that came to mind.
Again, remember that this was a one-off incident and Buckley admitted he had been wrong to go after Vidal like that. I'm sure you yourself have blown up at someone in a way you regretted.
| 83 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:58:00pm |
re: #78 publicityStunted
This site has links to clips of the debate:
[Link: www.pitt.edu...]
| 84 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:58:56pm |
Evening all!
How was your day?
| 85 |
engineer cat Tue, Sep 27, 2011 8:59:02pm |
re: #48 albusteve
who?...where does this money come from elsewhere?
why does the gop always look first in the paychecks, pensions, and health benefits of people in the lower 60% of the income scale?
hey - when george bush wanted to fight in iraq he just arranged to have the money borrowed
| 86 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:00:21pm |
re: #82 Dark_Falcon
Then why the epithet "queer"? Why not call him a jerk, asshole, or some other non-bigoted insult instead? What would you think of someone who said, "Now listen up you goddamn sp*c", or "listen up you goddamn k*ke?"
He wasn't thinking at the time. He was so pissed he just went off. He wasn't a hater of gays, but I think that Vidal pushed him so hard that Buckley's mind just latched onto the first hostile term that came to mind.
Again, remember that this was a one-off incident and Buckley admitted he had been wrong to go after Vidal like that. I'm sure you yourself have blown up at someone in a way you regretted.
back then, being called a Nazi was at least as derogatory as being called queer...maybe more so
| 87 |
BishopX Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:00:22pm |
re: #82 Dark_Falcon
He wasn't thinking at the time. He was so pissed he just went off. He wasn't a hater of gays, but I think that Vidal pushed him so hard that Buckley's mind just latched onto the first hostile term that came to mind.
Again, remember that this was a one-off incident and Buckley admitted he had been wrong to go after Vidal like that. I'm sure you yourself have blown up at someone in a way you regretted.
Where there's smoke there's fire.... I have no doubt that Buckley would never dream of using that word internationally, and that he recognized that it was wrong. But the fact remains that he said it, which means he was thinking it.
| 88 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:00:32pm |
re: #84 ggt
Evening all!
How was your day?
Came home feeling a little better than normal from the Bartell Drugs interview to find another article on bullying.
;_;
| 89 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:01:23pm |
re: #88 laZardo
Came home feeling a little better than normal from the Bartell Drugs interview to find another article on bullying.
;_;
The interview went well?
| 90 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:01:30pm |
re: #86 albusteve
back then, being called a Nazi was at least as derogatory as being called queer...maybe more so
The images of the death camps were fresher then.
| 91 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:01:41pm |
re: #85 engineer dog
why does the gop always look first in the paychecks, pensions, and health benefits of people in the lower 60% of the income scale?
hey - when george bush wanted to fight in iraq he just arranged to have the money borrowed
both party's hold public servants hostage
| 92 |
A Man for all Seasons Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:02:56pm |
I'm finally watching Terra Nova.. They spent millions on the Pilot.. It's ok so far I guess..
It's like Jurassic Park + Avatar + Lost in Space + Lost
First off.. Never go back 85 million years to save mankind.. I hate to break this to the writers but 65 million years ago all life was wiped out on earth...Bad math for the time machine...
I say go back 2000 years ago with AK47's and own those damn Romans!
/I'd rather deal with hoards of Greek girls brought back to the Temple by the 5th Marine Corp than Dinosaurs 85 million years ago.. But that's just me.. In fact..With a time machine I'd do the 50's...or to save mankind..I'd do the 60's free love time period..Just to save you guys...
//
| 93 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:04:00pm |
re: #90 jaunte
The images of the death camps were fresher then.
maybe...I'm just a bit sympathetic toward Buckley...Gore Vidal is an asshole
| 94 |
Ming Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:04:39pm |
I'm not sure how to say this, but something felt WRONG to me about the way Charles began the post: "Here’s a Tuesday night open thread, as Andrew Breitbart totally tweaks out once again, asking his followers to pile on and insult me on Twitter..." Those words somehow seemed to bypass something very important: that Breitbart's behavior is morally wrong, and may very well be criminal (in that his behavior is something that society should be protected from) or at least actionable (he intends to cause harm, e.g. to someone's reputation). I don't mean to get sidetracked on legal things; the point is that Breitbart's behavior is immoral and outrageous, and should NOT be described with CASUAL WORDS.
Of course, if Charles were to take this to heart, perhaps half the LGF posts would be worded like Ayn Rand: bursting with moral seriousness. I really don't know what to suggest, and of course the posts are fine the way they are. But there is something inappropriate about discussing outrageous behavior with any language that might imply that this is some sort of unserious game.
I probably didn't communicate all that very well, but if you'll pardon my lack of eloquence, I think the above was worth saying.
| 95 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:05:40pm |
re: #93 albusteve
maybe...I'm just a bit sympathetic toward Buckley...Gore Vidal is an asshole
I don't know, if someone called me a Nazi, I think I'd be tempted to use any nasty word I could think of.
The difference being, of course, that Buckley wasn't a Nazi and Vidal is gay.
| 96 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:05:52pm |
re: #92 HoosierHoops
I'm finally watching Terra Nova.. They spent millions on the Pilot.. It's ok so far I guess..
It's like Jurassic Park + Avatar + Lost in Space + Lost
First off.. Never go back 85 million years to save mankind.. I hate to break this to the writers but 65 million years ago all life was wiped out on earth...Bad math for the time machine...
I say go back 2000 years ago with AK47's and own those damn Romans!
/I'd rather deal with hoards of Greek girls brought back to the Temple by the 5th Marine Corp than Dinosaurs 85 million years ago.. But that's just me.. In fact..With a time machine I'd do the 50's...or to save mankind..I'd do the 60's free love time period..Just to save you guys...
//
There are a few places in time you could drop in and change history with a few simple actions.
Problem is: How would you change history? The Law of Unintended Consequences is a booger.
| 97 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:06:04pm |
re: #89 ggt
...I'm not sure. I know the Safeway temp guy hired me on the spot after I finished that interview, though my aunt told me that "on-the-spot" isn't really the norm.
| 98 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:06:06pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
SNIP
The bolded part is the problem part:So instead of actually dealing with the problems posed by producing something, America once again outsources the production to China. [facepalm]
Well, the "dealing" would amount to just going ahead and using the toxic raws materials and accepting that you'd have some pollution. Or, spending money we don't have, because we're spending it all on shoring up fraudulent GSE's like Fannie Mae, and on the wars, and so on and so forth.
| 99 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:06:46pm |
re: #93 albusteve
maybe...I'm just a bit sympathetic toward Buckley...Gore Vidal is an asshole
Eh, both were human so both had pluses and minuses. I'd rather be a fly on the wall and see how they got along after the blowup.
| 100 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:07:09pm |
re: #92 HoosierHoops
I say go back 2000 years ago with AK47's and own those damn Romans!
//
There was an alternate history novel based on that. Only it involved the Confederates winning the Civil War.
| 101 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:07:29pm |
re: #97 laZardo
...I'm not sure. I know the Safeway temp guy hired me on the spot after I finished that interview, though my aunt told me that "on-the-spot" isn't really the norm.
No, it's not. With my store, everything had to be vetted thru Corporate HR, then I had to go for a drug test, then I got the final OK.
| 102 |
wheat-dogghazi Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:08:05pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
I'm not sure I'd wear a bullet-proof vest MADE in China. The DoD better watch their QC like a hawk.
| 103 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:09:47pm |
re: #92 HoosierHoops
I'm finally watching Terra Nova.. They spent millions on the Pilot.. It's ok so far I guess..
It's like Jurassic Park + Avatar + Lost in Space + Lost
First off.. Never go back 85 million years to save mankind.. I hate to break this to the writers but 65 million years ago all life was wiped out on earth...Bad math for the time machine...
I say go back 2000 years ago with AK47's and own those damn Romans!
/I'd rather deal with hoards of Greek girls brought back to the Temple by the 5th Marine Corp than Dinosaurs 85 million years ago.. But that's just me.. In fact..With a time machine I'd do the 50's...or to save mankind..I'd do the 60's free love time period..Just to save you guys...
//
I considered giving that a watch even though Sci-Fi isn't my thing. I did like Jason O'Mara on the US version of Life on Mars. That was a neat show, had Harvey Keitel and Michael Imperioli. Plus it had a neat soundtrack and was set in early 70's New York. 15 million big ones soudns like a lot of money for the pilot of a regular cable show.
| 104 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:09:54pm |
re: #82 Dark_Falcon
He wasn't thinking at the time. He was so pissed he just went off. He wasn't a hater of gays, but I think that Vidal pushed him so hard that Buckley's mind just latched onto the first hostile term that came to mind.
Buckley on Vidal's bisexuality:
So you're right, Buckley didn't hate gays, just so long as they had the good sense to hate themselves. You might want to stop apologizing for that effete bigot.
| 105 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:09:56pm |
re: #95 ggt
I don't know, if someone called me a Nazi, I think I'd be tempted to use any nasty word I could think of.
The difference being, of course, that Buckley wasn't a Nazi and Vidal is gay.
yes, it was an ugly affair but Vidal was asking for it and Buckley delivered...so it hath endeth
| 106 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:10:21pm |
re: #101 ggt
Yeah, come to think about it I did get the drug test too back at Safeway, so maybe I'll just wait on that.
| 107 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:10:24pm |
re: #78 publicityStunted
So it was not about Vidal being gay...
Then why the epithet "queer"? Why not call him a jerk, asshole, or some other non-bigoted insult instead? What would you think of someone who said, "Now listen up you goddamn sp*c", or "listen up you goddamn k*ke?"
Because Buckley was so angry he lost it, and in that day and age, it was a red-blooded insult. You don't call somebody a poo-poo-head if you're seriously angry at them. You say something that has a chance of hurting.
| 108 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:10:36pm |
re: #93 albusteve
maybe...I'm just a bit sympathetic toward Buckley...Gore Vidal is an asshole
In that he's a Pearl Harbor troofer, yes.
| 109 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:11:56pm |
re: #101 ggt
then I had to go for a drug test
You had to show them that you knew how to cook meth and weigh an ounce of weed!?!?!
//
| 110 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:11:59pm |
re: #108 jaunte
In that he's a Pearl Harbor troofer, yes.
I was annoyed by his attempt to lionize Aaron Burr but that too, though as I said I am not big on either guy for what I've said already.
| 111 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:12:08pm |
re: #99 wlewisiii
Eh, both were human so both had pluses and minuses. I'd rather be a fly on the wall and see how they got along after the blowup.
They never liked each other. Buckley apologized because that was the right thing to do, and Vidal did not call him a "Crypto-Nazi" again. So the aftermath was not good feeling but at least a stepping back from extreme statements. And again, that ability to see why being hateful or threatening violence is wrong is what distinguishes men like Vidal and Buckley from haters like Breitbart.
| 112 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:13:26pm |
re: #104 goddamnedfrank
Buckley on Vidal's bisexuality:
So you're right, Buckley didn't hate gays, just so long as they had the good sense to hate themselves. You might want to stop apologizing for that effete bigot.
and calling Buckley a Nazi is what exactly?...it was what it was and maybe you should start apologizing for Vidal's behavior...what's fair is fair
| 113 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:13:49pm |
re: #104 goddamnedfrank
Buckley on Vidal's bisexuality:
So you're right, Buckley didn't hate gays, just so long as they had the good sense to hate themselves. You might want to stop apologizing for that effete bigot.
I'm not sure it's really appropriate to judge Buckley by today's morals. For a long time, it seems, homosexuality wasn't understood as it is today. It was considered a vice or a perversion.
Do you think JFK or MLKJr, thought any differently than Buckley at the time?
| 114 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:14:58pm |
re: #109 sattv4u2
then I had to go for a drug test
You had to show them that you knew how to cook meth and weigh an ounce of weed!?!?!
//
I almost failed, it's been so long and my fingers don't work the way they used to, but I can still roll a serviceable joint.
///
| 115 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:15:14pm |
re: #108 jaunte
In that he's a Pearl Harbor troofer, yes.
I know nothing about that...I call em straight up, I have no favorites
| 116 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:15:56pm |
re: #115 albusteve
I know nothing about that...I call em straight up, I have no favorites
My favorite is Chocolate.
:0
| 117 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:16:39pm |
re: #113 ggt
Do you think JFK or MLKJr, thought any differently than Buckley at the time?
I don't know, probably, but if so they apparently had the good sense to shut the hell up about it.
| 118 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:16:58pm |
| 119 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:17:20pm |
re: #102 wheatdogg
I'm not sure I'd wear a bullet-proof vest MADE in China. The DoD better watch their QC like a hawk.
When you are a soldier, one thing you always remember is that everything - yes EVERYTHING - you are wearing, carrying and ready to fight and live or die with was made by the lowest bidder.
Remember that when you think about our troops, eh?
| 120 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:17:38pm |
re: #115 albusteve
He thinks FDR provoked the Japanese attack, knew about it in advance, and let it happen so we could frighten the Soviets with our (as yet undiscovered) atomic bomb. It makes no sense.
| 121 |
simoom Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:18:02pm |
Rep. Bachmann warns of the coming 2nd Cuban Missile Crisis:
[Link: thehill.com...]
Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann on Monday floated the idea that a terrorist group based in Lebanon might be installing missiles in Cuba.
The Minnesota congresswoman said there was a possibility that Cuba was working with Hezbollah, and warned that the group could be installing missile or weapon caches on the island just off the shore of Florida. She made the point in arguing against softening trade and travel embargoes to Cuba.
“Why would you normalize trading with a country that sponsors terror?,” Bachmann said at a rally in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. “There’s reports that have come out that Cuba has been working with another terrorist organization called Hezbollah. And Hezbollah is potentially looking at wanting to be part of missile sites in Iran and, of course, when you’re 90 miles offshore from Florida, you don’t want to entertain the prospect of hosting bases or sites where Hezbollah could have training camps or perhaps have missile sites or weapons sites in Cuba. This would be foolish.”
Probably related to this:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
People close to the campaign, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Mrs. Bachmann is often influenced by the last person she speaks with on an issue rather than maintaining discipline in communicating a message.
| 122 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:18:09pm |
re: #117 goddamnedfrank
I don't know, probably, but if so they apparently had the good sense to shut the hell up about it.
I'll bet...those two guys
| 123 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:19:15pm |
re: #119 wlewisiii
When you are a soldier, one thing you always remember is that everything - yes EVERYTHING - you are wearing, carrying and ready to fight and live or die with was made by the lowest bidder.
Remember that when you think about our troops, eh?
Everything? Have we researched the maker of the undies?
[Link: www.nbcdfw.com...]
| 124 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:19:39pm |
re: #120 jaunte
He thinks FDR provoked the Japanese attack, knew about it in advance, and let it happen so we could frighten the Soviets with our (as yet undiscovered) atomic bomb. It makes no sense.
blather
| 125 |
simoom Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:19:46pm |
re: #121 simoom
Oops, just expanded my LGF search to include yesterday too (when apparently this story made the rounds here). Guess I'm a day behind ;-P.
| 126 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:20:24pm |
re: #102 wheatdogg
I'm not sure I'd wear a bullet-proof vest MADE in China. The DoD better watch their QC like a hawk.
True that. That's why some of these smaller armor producers have come up, in part because procurement officers for battalions and brigades as well as individual soldiers would rather have something made reputably. My father's "boycott China" stance (he will not buy something made in China if it can be at all avoided) looks better every day.
| 127 |
albusteve Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:21:59pm |
re: #126 Dark_Falcon
True that. That's why some of these smaller armor producers have come up, in part because procurement officers for battalions and brigades as well as individual soldiers would rather have something made reputably. My father's "boycott China" stance (he will not buy something made in China if it can be at all avoided) looks better every day.
my dad hated the Japanese til the day he died...combat Marine
| 128 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:22:03pm |
I did a little bit of research and apparently what led Vidal to call Buckley a crypto-Nazi was Buckley calling students protesting the 1968 DNC convention holding Vietcong flags "pro Nazi". I mean I can see why Buckley was pissed off about the Nazi card being tossed but if what I read is right, it seems Buckley was equally wrong to throw that card. As I said, I don't have a bone to pick in the fight since neither man is someone I could be said to be a fan of.
| 129 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:22:29pm |
re: #123 EmmmieG
Everything? Have we researched the maker of the undies?
[Link: www.nbcdfw.com...]
Well. the last ones I was issued had "made in vietnam" on the tag for maximum irony.
| 130 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:23:00pm |
re: #129 wlewisiii
Well. the last ones I was issued had "made in vietnam" on the tag for maximum irony.
The military issues pink boxers? Really?
| 131 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:24:32pm |
re: #130 EmmmieG
The military issues pink boxers? Really?
Eh? Oh, that guy. Heh. The last ones I was issued were brown and made in vietnam. That's all I was saying.
| 132 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:25:28pm |
re: #131 wlewisiii
Eh? Oh, that guy. Heh. The last ones I was issued were brown and made in vietnam. That's all I was saying.
That is weird.
| 133 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:27:05pm |
re: #121 simoom
Rep. Bachmann warns of the coming 2nd Cuban Missile Crisis:
[Link: thehill.com...]Probably related to this:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
National Review's article on Bachmann corroborates the Times story. Even more reasons why Bachmann should not be president. We can't give the Football to someone who might nuke a country because some loon told her they were up to no good.
| 134 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:27:26pm |
re: #131 wlewisiii
Eh? Oh, that guy. Heh. The last ones I was issued were brown and made in vietnam. That's all I was saying.
| 135 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:30:16pm |
re: #128 HappyWarrior
I did a little bit of research and apparently what led Vidal to call Buckley a crypto-Nazi was Buckley calling students protesting the 1968 DNC convention holding Vietcong flags "pro Nazi". I mean I can see why Buckley was pissed off about the Nazi card being tossed but if what I read is right, it seems Buckley was equally wrong to throw that card. As I said, I don't have a bone to pick in the fight since neither man is someone I could be said to be a fan of.
I disagree. The students holding VC flags were displaying support for aarmed force our military was fighting, which was also a totalitarian group that had committed horrible atrocities during the Tet Offensive earlier that year. To fling the Nazi card at them seems fitting, though the VC would have been better compared to Stalin than Hitler.
| 136 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:30:26pm |
re: #121 simoom
Rep. Bachmann warns of the coming 2nd Cuban Missile Crisis:
[Link: thehill.com...]Probably related to this:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
I am no fan of the Castro regime but that's a crazy accusation to throw out there. I guess she heard it from the same person who told her that HPV causes mental retardation.
| 137 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:31:54pm |
re: #134 laZardo
Yep. Wish I still had a couple of them. Be fun to give to my son who was adopted from Vietnam... :eek: :lol:
| 138 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:32:13pm |
re: #128 HappyWarrior
I did a little bit of research and apparently what led Vidal to call Buckley a crypto-Nazi was Buckley calling students protesting the 1968 DNC convention holding Vietcong flags "pro Nazi". I mean I can see why Buckley was pissed off about the Nazi card being tossed but if what I read is right, it seems Buckley was equally wrong to throw that card. As I said, I don't have a bone to pick in the fight since neither man is someone I could be said to be a fan of.
It's like watching Thurston Howell III's grown children having a slap fight.
| 139 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:33:25pm |
re: #137 wlewisiii
Yep. Wish I still had a couple of them. Be fun to give to my son who was adopted from Vietnam... :eek: :lol:
My 10th grade Math teacher was actually from Vietnam. Caught one of the last helicopters out as a kid.
| 140 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:36:26pm |
re: #135 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. The students holding VC flags were displaying support for aarmed force our military was fighting, which was also a totalitarian group that had committed horrible atrocities during the Tet Offensive earlier that year. To fling the Nazi card at them seems fitting, though the VC would have been better compared to Stalin than Hitler.
I have no problem with calling the students out, the holding of the VC flags was not only stupid, it was wrong too. But the Nazi card? I hate that shit so much. If Buckley didn't want to be called a Nazi, he shouldn't have thrown it himself if you ask me. These kids were dumbasses and I have no qualms saying that but Nazis? I really doubt they knew how fucked up the VC was.
| 141 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:37:37pm |
In an article in the Nation, in March 1986, novelist Gore Vidal wrote,
“Jews are Israel’s ‘fifth columnists’ who stay on among us in order to
make propaganda and raise money for Israel.”
[Link: www.adl.org...]
| 142 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:38:08pm |
re: #138 goddamnedfrank
It's like watching Thurston Howell III's grown children having a slap fight.
Both guys come across as jackasses IMO. Though I must agree with Vidal that the students had the right to protest, now as I said I think their support for the VC was wrong but unpopular speech is still protected speech in my eyes.
| 143 |
palomino Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:38:39pm |
re: #138 goddamnedfrank
It's like watching Thurston Howell III's grown children having a slap fight.
I've seen that video a few times in different documentaries about the era, and I always had the same exact thought. Neither one of those lightweights could punch out a helium balloon.
| 144 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:39:54pm |
re: #139 laZardo
My 10th grade Math teacher was actually from Vietnam. Caught one of the last helicopters out as a kid.
A woman who helped with our adoption in 2002 was one of the survivors of Operation Babylift. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] Now that was fubar...
| 145 |
jaunte Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:40:43pm |
Goodnight all.
Aurora Borealis in Finnish Lapland
(full screen this)
| 146 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:40:49pm |
re: #113 ggt
I'm not sure it's really appropriate to judge Buckley by today's morals.
In another 40 years, we can count on someone excusing Breitbart commenter's behavior against SJL today on the same basis.
| 147 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:41:48pm |
Just had to give Monster Puppy a time-out in his "house".
| 148 |
palomino Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:42:31pm |
re: #135 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. The students holding VC flags were displaying support for aarmed force our military was fighting, which was also a totalitarian group that had committed horrible atrocities during the Tet Offensive earlier that year. To fling the Nazi card at them seems fitting, though the VC would have been better compared to Stalin than Hitler.
The students were kids who didn't want to get drafted to go fight and die in a fucked up war. I wouldn't have carried a VC flag, but otherwise I would have been right there with them. As Muhammad Ali eloquently said, "I can't support the white man telling the black man to go and kill the yellow man."
| 149 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:42:51pm |
BTW- if we're going to say it's okay to call the students who held VC lags Nazis or Stalinsits, then by that standard it's okay to call our own government who supported dictatorships who were just bad as the government of Communist government of Vietnam and for what it's worth I am not suggesting that it's okay to compare our government to the Nazis or Soviets because of that . The far left and far right both suck terribly, and it's too bad that we in some cases forgot the latter during the Cold War and presidents from both parties I think were guilty of that. The first principle of Anti-Communism should be be supporting democracy not simply being Anti-Communist. Call it naive idealism but I think that was a mistake.
| 150 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:43:53pm |
re: #146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
In another 40 years, we can count on someone excusing Breitbart commenter's behavior against SJL today on the same basis.
About a different issue than LGBT, I have no doubt.
We have a bad habit of judging people in the past by our current set of morals. WE have he benefit of science to explain things. They only had conjecture and the Church.
Saying that someone should have known better is expecting everyone to be a saint.
| 151 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:44:31pm |
re: #150 ggt
About a different issue than LGBT, I have no doubt.
We have a bad habit of judging people in the past by our current set of morals. WE have he benefit of science to explain things. They only had conjecture and the Church.
Saying that someone should have known better is expecting everyone to be a saint.
Sometimes I wonder what we are doing and taking for granted that future generations will condemn or praise us for.
| 152 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:44:34pm |
re: #148 palomino
The students were kids who didn't want to get drafted to go fight and die in a fucked up war. I wouldn't have carried a VC flag, but otherwise I would have been right there with them. As Muhammad Ali eloquently said, "I can't support the white man telling the black man to go and kill the yellow man."
Lol this whole conversation cracks me up. There is a contingent within the GOP that waves 150 year old flags that symbolize war with and overthrow of the federal government. GOP voters crying about students waving VC flags 40 years ago can cry me a river.
| 153 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:49:04pm |
re: #150 ggt
About a different issue than LGBT, I have no doubt.
We have a bad habit of judging people in the past by our current set of morals. WE have he benefit of science to explain things. They only had conjecture and the Church.
Saying that someone should have known better is expecting everyone to be a saint.
No so; the two social issues are directly related. If that were true, the Breitbarts would know better than to call me, SJL and every other Black person they hate apes and negresses in 2011.
"Our current set of morals" doesn't really mean much, because there are plenty who still retain and advocate a return to Buckley-era morals on a lot more than just us queers, right now, this minute.
| 154 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:53:13pm |
re: #148 palomino
The students were kids who didn't want to get drafted to go fight and die in a fucked up war. I wouldn't have carried a VC flag, but otherwise I would have been right there with them. As Muhammad Ali eloquently said, "I can't support the white man telling the black man to go and kill the yellow man."
I always ask myself what I would have done. My father was 17 the year of the '68 convention. A little young to be a true hippie but I know for a fact that he and many of his friends didn't want to go and who could blame them? I obviously respect those who did but I don't begrudge anyone who wanted to get out of Vietnam.
| 155 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:53:39pm |
Vidal leads off with *pompous ass*. Buckley interrupts, starts charging *Godwin*. Vidal uses *shut up a minute*, it's not very effective. Buckley fires Godwin, it hits. Vidal uses *reflect mega-ad-hom Godwin*, it's super effective! Buckley fires *RAGE HADOKEN* and threatens SHORYUKEN, ignores moderator, claims he was in the infantry. Vidal deflects with *nuh nuh neither*
Draw game.
| 156 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:54:54pm |
AB's response to being called one of the queers.
Say, Andrew.
If you have a problem with being perceived as gay, then get your dumb confederate butt off the advisory board of GOProud.
One should not have to tell this to rational adults. But what this all boils down to me is, when a conservative wields epithets, they're under stress, pressure, lost their cool, etc.
Lol when an *actual* queer calls Buckley a nazi, somehow, magically, he does so under terms of an equal social situation. /eyeroll
| 157 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:58:21pm |
re: #140 HappyWarrior
I have no problem with calling the students out, the holding of the VC flags was not only stupid, it was wrong too. But the Nazi card? I hate that shit so much. If Buckley didn't want to be called a Nazi, he shouldn't have thrown it himself if you ask me. These kids were dumbasses and I have no qualms saying that but Nazis? I really doubt they knew how fucked up the VC was.
Again, remember the times. Anti-Anti-Communism had robbed the Communist Totalitarian angle of most of its punch. Buckley went with the angle that had punch, even if it wasn't entirely right.
That having been said, the actions of the Viet Cong in Hue were every bit as bad as the deeds of the SS Einsatzgruppen. They murdered entire families, shooting them into mass graves. The only diffence is that they murdered "class enemies" instead of Jews. So the Nazi comparison is not without merit.
| 158 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 9:59:40pm |
re: #138 goddamnedfrank
It's like watching Thurston Howell III's grown children having a slap fight.
lmao
Buckley the Fey calling someone else a queer.
*That's about as bad as Breitbart getting all bent because someone called him gay, oh boo hoo you big bruisers.
| 159 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:00:43pm |
re: #157 Dark_Falcon
Again, remember the times. Anti-Anti-Communism had robbed the Communist Totalitarian angle of most of its punch. Buckley went with the angle that had punch, even if it wasn't entirely right.
That having been said, the actions of the Viet Cong in Hue were every bit as bad as the deeds of the SS Einsatzgruppen. They murdered entire families, shooting them into mass graves. The only diffence is that they murdered "class enemies" instead of Jews. So the Nazi comparison is not without merit.
Eggs/omelets, let's carpetbomb the crap out of entire countrysides.
| 161 |
BishopX Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:03:45pm |
re: #157 Dark_Falcon
Again, remember the times. Anti-Anti-Communism had robbed the Communist Totalitarian angle of most of its punch. Buckley went with the angle that had punch, even if it wasn't entirely right.
That having been said, the actions of the Viet Cong in Hue were every bit as bad as the deeds of the SS Einsatzgruppen. They murdered entire families, shooting them into mass graves. The only diffence is that they murdered "class enemies" instead of Jews. So the Nazi comparison is not without merit.
Yes, and the ARVN handed out candy and smelt of roses... we were in the middle of a civil war for no good reason. Complaining about how bad one side was absent context is the worst form of historical revisionism.
| 162 |
palomino Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:04:52pm |
re: #160 Dark_Falcon
GAZE
Is she wrong? Did we not carpet bomb the crap out of entire countrysides? In both Vietnam and Cambodia?
| 163 |
palomino Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:06:27pm |
re: #161 BishopX
Yes, and the ARVN handed out candy and smelt of roses... we were in the middle of a civil war for no good reason. Complaining about how bad one side was absent context is the worst form of historical revisionism.
Exactly...this is the part of American Exceptionalism that simply does not stand up to scrutiny. If they do it, it's evil; if we do it, it's all OK because we're America, Fuck Yeah.
| 164 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:06:30pm |
re: #157 Dark_Falcon
Again, remember the times. Anti-Anti-Communism had robbed the Communist Totalitarian angle of most of its punch. Buckley went with the angle that had punch, even if it wasn't entirely right.
That having been said, the actions of the Viet Cong in Hue were every bit as bad as the deeds of the SS Einsatzgruppen. They murdered entire families, shooting them into mass graves. The only diffence is that they murdered "class enemies" instead of Jews. So the Nazi comparison is not without merit.
I am not denying the evil of the VC, DF. I am saying it's not right to call stupid and naive kids Nazis. Does the fact that our government supported murderous regimes like the Processo, Pinochet junta, the Shah's Iran, and others make our government Nazi or Stalinist? I don't think so even though I feel they were very wrong to do that. Buckley could have called those kids what they were: stupid, naive, and wholly misinformed about the reality of hte VC and you know what I'd have no argument but calling them Nazis? And yesh I know how the times were, I am just saying we fucked up by tolerating dicatorships simply because they were anti Communist. We should have held higher standards. As a nation that has long prided ourselves as being democratic we ended looking like hypocrites to a lot of the world. I know I have the benefit of looking at this from 2011 but I really do wish the policymakers in both parties should have supported democrats first and foremost in the Cold War even if they did lean left rather than dictatorial thugs who happened to be avidly anti Communist.
| 165 |
Four More Tears Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:07:43pm |
Can't we have one conversation without someone bringing up the damn gaze???
| 166 |
BishopX Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:08:53pm |
re: #165 JasonA
There's really only one person who uses that anymore...
Mostly because he's too polite to ignore posts.
| 167 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:09:13pm |
re: #164 HappyWarrior
Saying they were "ro-Nazi" is not the same as calling them Nazis. Buckley was saying they were rooting for people as bad as the Nazis. I think he'd have agreed they were doing so out of ignorance and/or stupidity and the students didn't actually think that mass murder was a good thing.
| 168 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:09:56pm |
| 169 |
Four More Tears Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:11:37pm |
re: #166 BishopX
There's really only one person who uses that anymore...
Mostly because he's too polite to ignore posts.
Joke was too subtle, I guess...
| 170 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:12:04pm |
re: #160 Dark_Falcon
GAZE
"Attitudes have a kind of inertia. Once set in motion, they will keep going, even in the face of evidence. To change an attitude requires a considerable amount of work and suffering. The process must begin either in an effortfully maintained posture of constant self-doubt and criticism or else in a painful acknowledgment that what we thought was right all along may not be right after all. Then it proceeds into a state of confusion. This state is quite uncomfortable; we no longer seem to know what is right or wrong or which way to go. But it is a state of openness and therefore learning and growing. It is only from the quicksand of confusion that we are able to leap to the new and better vision."
-M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie pg. 240 (Mylai: An Examination of Group Evil)
| 171 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:12:14pm |
re: #162 palomino
Is she wrong? Did we not carpet bomb the crap out of entire countrysides? In both Vietnam and Cambodia?
That isn't the point. I was arguing a case about the Viet Cong and then OCSP fired off that attack line. It looked to me like she was trying a tu quoque fallacy at best and trying to put words in my mouth at worst.
| 172 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:14:57pm |
re: #62 Dark_Falcon
re: #167 Dark_Falcon
There's an awful lot of second-guessing Buckley, in order to justify his assholery.
re: #67 Dark_Falcon
Buckley's exact words were:
So it was not about Vidal being gay, it was about Vidal's ugly and dishonest words.
In what upside down universe is calling a known gay man "queer" not an antigay slur?
Since when...especially then, wtf.
| 173 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:16:02pm |
re: #167 Dark_Falcon
Saying they were "ro-Nazi" is not the same as calling them Nazis. Buckley was saying they were rooting for people as bad as the Nazis. I think he'd have agreed they were doing so out of ignorance and/or stupidity and the students didn't actually think that mass murder was a good thing.
Still though you call someone pro Nazi and it's going to get the same reaction if you call someone a crypto Nazi. As I said, I don't blame Buckley for getting pissed. I do have an issue with the pro Nazi stuff since that implies he thinks the students knew how murderous the VC was. I don't think they did. I think they were dumb and naive kids. I guess this line of poes me since I had to hear pro Iraq war people imply I supported Saddam and the Baath Party by virtue of opposing hte Iraq War, no I never held an Iraqi flag like those kids did but still. As I said, would have no problem if Buckley simply caleld them dumb and naive which they were but as I said I think a lot of our own policymakers were naive as hell about the anti communist strongmen we supported other placse.
| 174 |
Four More Tears Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:17:06pm |
re: #172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
re: #167 Dark_Falcon
There's an awful lot of second-guessing Buckley, in order to justify his assholery.
re: #67 Dark_Falcon
In what upside down universe is calling a known gay man "queer" not an antigay slur?
Since when...especially then, wtf.
Dark's defending the point that Buckley wasn't attacking him because he was gay.
Which I find to be irrelevant, but there it is.
| 175 |
makeitstop Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:17:36pm |
It looks like Larry Flynt is back in the politics business...
| 176 |
Four More Tears Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:18:15pm |
re: #175 makeitstop
It looks like Larry Flynt is back in the politics business...
I'll have sex with Perry for one million dollars.
Stop looking at me like that.
| 177 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:18:24pm |
The Horror!
The Toe Suck Fairy has struck again and been arrested --thank goodness!
There is no end to wierd.
| 178 |
freetoken Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:18:27pm |
re: #121 simoom
Bachmann is determined to prove those who thought the GOP hit bottom with Sarah Palin were wrong.
| 179 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:18:51pm |
re: #171 Dark_Falcon
That isn't the point. I was arguing a case about the Viet Cong and then OCSP fired off that attack line. It looked to me like she was trying a tu quoque fallacy at best and trying to put words in my mouth at worst.
You are not being "attacked" because someone expresses a different view than your argument. This isn't war and you are not under any kind of siege.
If you're going to talk about the viciousness of the VC, then you cannot leave out the viciousness of carpetbomging.
It was a major reason for the protests Buckley and Gore were discussing to begin with, so it's relevant to the conversation. People are allowed to talk about it now, and were right to protest it, then.
| 180 |
makeitstop Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:20:31pm |
re: #176 JasonA
I'll have sex with Perry for one million dollars.
Stop looking at me like that.
A comment from a friend of mine on Facebook:
Either way, we win, right? Either they find someone and get the story out, or we all learn that no one would sleep with that repugnant slime, even for a million bucks.
Heh.
| 181 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:20:42pm |
Nah, not tonight. Too messy over all. ake care, DF.
G'night.
| 182 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:21:26pm |
re: #171 Dark_Falcon
That isn't the point. I was arguing a case about the Viet Cong and then OCSP fired off that attack line. It looked to me like she was trying a tu quoque fallacy at best and trying to put words in my mouth at worst.
LBJ started the carpet bombing campaigns.
| 183 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:23:05pm |
re: #174 JasonA
Dark's defending the point that Buckley wasn't attacking him because he was gay.
Which I find to be irrelevant, but there it is.
Oh, I fully understand the argument, because I've heard it many many many times before. I just disagree with it. His word choice had every bit to do with Vidal's reputation, as did the threats to get violent with him and disfigure him.
[And by one of the queeniest straight men I've ever seen prior to Breitbart, but...]
40 years from now, we'll also hear that Breitbarts' commenters simply lost their temper at Sheila Jackson Lee criticizing them, and didn't really have a problem with her race or color.
40 years...hell, 40 hours from now. lol
| 184 |
palomino Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:25:07pm |
re: #171 Dark_Falcon
That isn't the point. I was arguing a case about the Viet Cong and then OCSP fired off that attack line. It looked to me like she was trying a tu quoque fallacy at best and trying to put words in my mouth at worst.
I think she was simply saying that VC atrocities didn't justify carpet bombing, which was our response.
Thank God we finally stopped listening to Curtis "Bomb them back to the stone age" Lemay.
| 185 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:26:03pm |
Damn. I better not say anything nice about Buckley again. So to which liberal God to I beg for forgiveness for even uttering my words at the top of this thread?
Might be time for taking another few days off from here. Get's a little too thick in here and my hip waders are in the shop.
| 186 |
palomino Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:27:52pm |
re: #175 makeitstop
It looks like Larry Flynt is back in the politics business...
At the rate Perry's going, there may be no need for Flynt to promise a reward in order to destroy him. Perry's doing Flynt's job for him.
| 187 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:28:19pm |
re: #184 palomino
I think she was simply saying that VC atrocities didn't justify carpet bombing, which was our response.
Thank God we finally stopped listening to Curtis "Bomb them back to the stone age" Lemay.
That was actually more of an area denial tactic, not a reprisal. And it was mostly used against areas that were very scarcely populated. We didn't carpet bomb towns, not even Ben Tre,
But now I must ask your understanding as I sign off. I have much to do tomorrow and need to get to bed. Goodnight, all.
| 188 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:28:24pm |
re: #184 palomino
I think she was simply saying that VC atrocities didn't justify carpet bombing, which was our response.
Thank God we finally stopped listening to Curtis "Bomb them back to the stone age" Lemay.
Well, most of us did, anyway.
And besides, where did it get us?
Vietnam is a state-capitalist society, now. They make everything we wear, though, just as the People's Republic of China makes all our electronics we're typing on right now.
So, there's that.
| 189 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:29:34pm |
oh Breitbart, go back to Opie and Anthony, sheesh
PT Barnum, alive and well
| 190 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:29:43pm |
re: #185 Gus 802
Damn. I better not say anything nice about Buckley again. So to which liberal God to I beg for forgiveness for even uttering my words at the top of this thread?
Might be time for taking another few days off from here. Get's a little too thick in here and my hip waders are in the shop.
So, how's the weather by you?
| 191 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:30:02pm |
Strangely enough, on a certain level, President Johnson and the men of his administration knew that what they were doing was evil. Otherwise, why all the lying?**One of the tests for criminal responsibility is the question of whether the defendant knows the difference between right and wrong. If a criminal in any way, shape, or form attempts to conceal his crime, it is assume he knew his action to be a crime—that is, to be wrong. By the very fact that President Johnson took various actions and made up various lies to cover up his deeds, we may assume that he knew what he was doing was wrong or at least knew that it was unacceptable to the society that he was sworn to represent.
-M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie pg. 241 (Mylai: An Examination of Group Evil)
| 192 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:30:58pm |
re: #190 ggt
So, how's the weather by you?
Warm. A little cool at night. Was about to take a breather outside with a cigarette.
| 193 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:31:16pm |
re: #67 Dark_Falcon
Buckley's exact words were:
So it was not about Vidal being gay, it was about Vidal's ugly and dishonest words. Again, not an excuse for the threat, just what it was really about.
Vidal was better at the game than Buckley, he got Buckley to lose his temper, poof, there you go, Buckley losing his walnuts on TV
Buckley is faux-smart, Vidal is the real thing
| 194 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:31:56pm |
re: #193 WindUpBird
Vidal was better at the game than Buckley, he got Buckley to lose his temper, poof, there you go, Buckley losing his walnuts on TV
Buckley is faux-smart, Vidal is the real thing
Yeah, I wish I was as perfect as Gore Vidal too.
//
| 195 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:32:52pm |
Buckley is still dead. Oh, and Vidal got to kick dirt on his grave soon after he died.
| 196 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:33:10pm |
re: #185 Gus 802
Damn. I better not say anything nice about Buckley again. So to which liberal God to I beg for forgiveness for even uttering my words at the top of this thread?
Might be time for taking another few days off from here. Get's a little to thick in here and my hip waders are in the shop.
3 Hail Ted Kennedies and One Roosevelt's Prayer. Heh just ribbing ya. It's all good by the way. I really am not fond of either guy as I said. I don't blame Buckley for getting ticked for being called a Nazi on the other hand, if you throw that card, it may come back at you.
| 197 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:33:18pm |
re: #194 Gus 802
Yeah, I wish I was as perfect as Gore Vidal too.
//
we all know really smart people and how broken they all are :D See: every really really clever comedian who does cocaine by the barrel
| 198 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:33:18pm |
re: #185 Gus 802
Damn. I better not say anything nice about Buckley again. So to which liberal God to I beg for forgiveness for even uttering my words at the top of this thread?
Might be time for taking another few days off from here. Get's a little too thick in here and my hip waders are in the shop.
Eh, Buckley fkley. Both he and Vidal were complex men who can't be summarized by that infamous clip.
It just makes me laugh to see someone as fey as Buckley of all people labeling someone else the "queer". /i guess you have to be queer for it to be funny
| 199 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:34:04pm |
re: #198 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I think it's hilarious, "cryptonazi" is sort of a running joke with some friends of mine because of that clip :D
| 200 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:34:29pm |
re: #192 Gus 802
Warm. A little cool at night. Was about to take a breather outside with a cigarette.
It's been raining here, so it seems colder than it is.
I'm so glad I can smoke in my house.
| 201 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:38:14pm |
re: #198 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Eh, Buckley fkley. Both he and Vidal were complex men who can't be summarized by that infamous clip.
It just makes me laugh to see someone as fey as Buckley of all people labeling someone else the "queer". /i guess you have to be queer for it to be funny
Well. I actually did find Buckley to be rather queer himself.
| 202 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:40:04pm |
re: #199 WindUpBird
I think it's hilarious, "cryptonazi" is sort of a running joke with some friends of mine because of that clip :D
| 203 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:41:19pm |
re: #201 Gus 802
Well. I actually did find Buckley to be rather queer himself.
Yeah, I don't know or care what sex(es) he ever slept with. But the man was a classic queen.
| 204 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:42:33pm |
| 205 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:43:12pm |
I have full day tomorrow.
Have a great morning all!
| 206 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:44:24pm |
re: #198 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Eh, Buckley fkley. Both he and Vidal were complex men who can't be summarized by that infamous clip.
It just makes me laugh to see someone as fey as Buckley of all people labeling someone else the "queer". /i guess you have to be queer for it to be funny
Fey, effete, whatever, it's his entire mannerism and dialect, the haughty pretense, they way he pronounced it "quee-ahr." You just have to appreciate the nuances, because that scene is loaded with 'em. The first time I saw it I thought he was going to challenge Vidal to a duel at dawn with martini swizzles.
| 207 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:45:02pm |
re: #203 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, I don't know or care what sex(es) he ever slept with. But the man was a classic queen.
That's what Vidal called him. Posthumously.
| 208 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:45:32pm |
re: #206 goddamnedfrank
Fey, effete, whatever, it's his entire mannerism and dialect, the haughty pretense, they way he pronounced it "quee-ahr." You just have to appreciate the nuances, because that scene is loaded with 'em. The first time I saw it I thought he was going to challenge Vidal to a duel at dawn with martini swizzles.
Or a yacht race.
| 209 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:49:20pm |
Denver City Council Joins Mayor and Governor in Opposing Paid Sick Leave
Democrats join ranks with big business interests and Republicans in Denver and Colorado.
| 210 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:49:30pm |
re: #206 goddamnedfrank
Fey, effete, whatever, it's his entire mannerism and dialect, the haughty pretense, they way he pronounced it "quee-ahr." You just have to appreciate the nuances, because that scene is loaded with 'em. The first time I saw it I thought he was going to challenge Vidal to a duel at dawn with martini swizzles.
But hey, you know, you librulz r just elitists.
9_9
| 211 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:50:56pm |
re: #204 WindUpBird
ahahaha rage hadoken
So if Buckley is Ryu, who's Vidal? :D
I'm not sure Buckley is Ryu, more like Dan. Vidal is Oro, old with weird power.
| 212 |
makeitstop Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:51:15pm |
A thought before bed - I think it's so cool that VW is using Shirley Ellis' 'The Clapping Song (Clap Clap)' in their ads for the new Bug. It was one of my favorite songs when I was a kid.
| 213 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:52:05pm |
re: #141 Gus 802
In an article in the Nation, in March 1986, novelist Gore Vidal wrote,
“Jews are Israel’s ‘fifth columnists’ who stay on among us in order to
make propaganda and raise money for Israel.”[Link: www.adl.org...]
| 215 |
Targetpractice Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:56:18pm |
re: #209 Gus 802
Denver City Council Joins Mayor and Governor in Opposing Paid Sick Leave
Democrats join ranks with big business interests and Republicans in Denver and Colorado.
Ever notice how "business friendly" seems to translate as "Screw over the workers"?
| 216 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:58:32pm |
re: #212 makeitstop
A thought before bed - I think it's so cool that VW is using Shirley Ellis' 'The Clapping Song (Clap Clap)' in their ads for the new Bug. It was one of my favorite songs when I was a kid.
[Video]
Pia Zadora did a decent remake
| 217 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 10:58:55pm |
re: #215 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Ever notice how "business friendly" seems to translate as "Screw over the workers"?
Hickenlooper is a piece of shit. I actually voted for that asshole. He's in the back pocket of Denver developers and restauranteurs. He used to own Wynkoops.
Basically, they want to create "sanctuary cities" to hire illegal workers to work at the yuppies bars and restaurants. Meanwhile, these same DINOs don't even want to give basic rights to workers. It's all lip service as usual.
| 218 |
Targetpractice Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:03:29pm |
re: #217 Gus 802
Hickenlooper is a piece of shit. I actually voted for that asshole. He's in the back pocket of Denver developers and restauranteurs. He used to own Wynkoops.
Basically, they want to create "sanctuary cities" to hire illegal workers to work at the yuppies bars and restaurants. Meanwhile, these same DINOs don't even want to give basic rights to workers. It's all lip service as usual.
I know how ya feel. Around here, it's pretty much an open secret that the city council is in the pockets of the construction companies. When BRAC told them a few years back that they either condemned all the houses in the crash zones circling NAS Oceana or have the base closed, the city council basically told them where to stick said choice. The only real Oceana remains open is there's no real alternative for it's replacement.
| 220 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:10:39pm |
re: #82 Dark_Falcon
Then why the epithet "queer"? Why not call him a jerk, asshole, or some other non-bigoted insult instead? What would you think of someone who said, "Now listen up you goddamn sp*c", or "listen up you goddamn k*ke?"
He wasn't thinking at the time. He was so pissed he just went off. He wasn't a hater of gays, but I think that Vidal pushed him so hard that Buckley's mind just latched onto the first hostile term that came to mind.
Again, remember that this was a one-off incident and Buckley admitted he had been wrong to go after Vidal like that. I'm sure you yourself have blown up at someone in a way you regretted.
It was 1968.
This may not be much of an excuse for the language, but it's the absolute truth.
I think we forget how utterly acceptable public homophobia was not very long ago.
| 221 |
Targetpractice Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:13:26pm |
re: #219 Lidane
I can understand her frustration, as it seems Congress is always in campaign mode, forever worried more about the next reelection bid than whether their actions are helping/hurting the nation as a whole. But suspending elections is outright, no matter how frustrated may have become with the whole situation.
Personally, I support Congressional term limits due to this situation, but the chances that professional politicians will ever willingly give up their seats are vanishingly small.
| 222 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:14:39pm |
re: #117 goddamnedfrank
I don't know, probably, but if so they apparently had the good sense to shut the hell up about it.
Not because they thought they'd be thought less of for being homophobes, but because they wouldn't use a word like 'queer' in public speaking.
I have no feelings about Buckley or Vidal, one way or another, but I am aware of what thinking about gay folks was like in the late sixties.
| 223 |
laZardo Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:15:15pm |
re: #221 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Coming from a country where there are congressional term limits, you'd have to make them exceedingly short in order to prevent the creation of family dynasties.
| 224 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:16:02pm |
re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist
It was 1968.
This may not be much of an excuse for the language, but it's the absolute truth.
I think we forget how utterly acceptable public homophobia was not very long ago.
It's 2011 and they still call us that; public homophobia is still completely acceptable in many social and political circles.
| 225 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:17:09pm |
re: #218 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I know how ya feel. Around here, it's pretty much an open secret that the city council is in the pockets of the construction companies. When BRAC told them a few years back that they either condemned all the houses in the crash zones circling NAS Oceana or have the base closed, the city council basically told them where to stick said choice. The only real Oceana remains open is there's no real alternative for it's replacement.
So if they close Oceana what would they do next? Create another government program to make up for the loss of that air station? Otherwise it would only continue being another bedroom community. Oceana is practically the center of the East coast school of naval aviation. Short of Pensacola. What's the alternative there? Senior citizen developments like in South Jersey?
| 226 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:17:18pm |
re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist
Not because they thought they'd be thought less of for being homophobes, but because they wouldn't use a word like 'queer' in public speaking.
I have no feelings about Buckley or Vidal, one way or another, but I am aware of what thinking about gay folks was like in the late sixties.
The mentality still persists among Buckley's progeny, just as their mentality about every social minority persists.
They have not altered, one iota.
| 227 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:18:09pm |
re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist
Not because they thought they'd be thought less of for being homophobes, but because they wouldn't use a word like 'queer' in public speaking.
I have no feelings about Buckley or Vidal, one way or another, but I am aware of what thinking about gay folks was like in the late sixties.
Yep. Or even in the 90s when Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act.
Just felt like bringing that up.
| 228 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:19:35pm |
re: #208 Gus 802
Or a yacht race.
Anyone remember the SNL skit after Connecticut legalized domestic partnerships? The two guys in the preppy pastel nightmare costumes?
| 229 |
Targetpractice Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:20:25pm |
re: #223 laZardo
Coming from a country where there are congressional term limits, you'd have to make them exceedingly short in order to prevent the creation of family dynasties.
One suggestion I'd heard was a limit of 3 House terms or 2 Senate terms, which sounds roughly right. I'm not sure if there have been recent polls, but one I read from last year put national support for such limits at around 78%.
| 230 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:21:17pm |
re: #224 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
It's 2011 and they still call us that; public homophobia is still completely acceptable in many social and political circles.
Indeed, but that exchange would have played out differently in today's national media.
| 231 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:22:10pm |
re: #227 Gus 802
Yep. Or even in the 90s when Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act.
Just felt like bringing that up.
Or in the election before last, where the left was actively blaming us for Kerry losing because we scared away the moderates e_e.
Same old bigots, different letters behind their names. "Things have gotten better" in many regard, but also in many senses, anything is an improvement.
| 232 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:24:52pm |
EU powers drop UN Syria sanctions call
European countries proposing a new UN resolution over Syria have dropped demands for immediate sanctions against President Bashar al-Assad's government.
The draft, proposed by the UK, France, Germany and Portugal and backed by the US, threatens sanctions only if the repression of protests does not end.
The scaled-back version is aimed at winning the support of China and Russia, which oppose sanctions.
Fascinating.
| 233 |
freetoken Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:25:41pm |
re: #219 Lidane
KT brought that up earlier, in reference to Drudge jumping all over it. I think it is just a case of yet another politician now knowing how to ensure that the tools of English and rhetoric are not misconstrued.
| 234 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:26:04pm |
re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist
Indeed, but that exchange would have played out differently in today's national media.
Today's media situation is also way different from 1968, especially with televangelism and FN. The present-day Buckleys with that mentality are applauded and encouraged.
| 235 |
Targetpractice Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:26:18pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
So if they close Oceana what would they do next? Create another government program to make up for the loss of that air station? Otherwise it would only continue being another bedroom community. Oceana is practically the center of the East coast school of naval aviation. Short of Pensacola. What's the alternative there? Senior citizen developments like in South Jersey?
Apparently many in this city are convinced that it could survive solely on the tourist industry. And while tourism is big business 'round here, it's not a year-round industry, like other tourist towns. And if you live anymore than 10 minutes away from the Oceanfront, then the only tourists you see are the ones who couldn't afford the hotel rooms down on the beach. The bulk of the business towards the town center is catered towards the military crowd and locals. The Navy goes, so do most of those businesses. There's simply not enough business from the tourist industry to keep things going past the Oceanfront.
| 236 |
Gus Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:33:00pm |
re: #235 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Apparently many in this city are convinced that it could survive solely on the tourist industry. And while tourism is big business 'round here, it's not a year-round industry, like other toutist towns. And if you live anymore than 10 minutes away from the Oceanfront, then the only tourists you see are the ones who couldn't afford the hotel rooms down on the beach. The bulk of the business towards the town center is catered towards the military crowd and locals. The Navy goes, so do most of those businesses. There's simply not enough business from the tourist industry to keep things going past the Oceanfront.
Sounds like another case of trying to reinvent the wheel. "Build it and they will come!" Like you said. There is no tourist appeal to Oceana. It's not even on the ocean.
| 238 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:34:31pm |
re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist
Not because they thought they'd be thought less of for being homophobes, but because they wouldn't use a word like 'queer' in public speaking.
They didn't publicly mention it at all, but MLK's wife has recollections of private conversations.
...
Lynn Cothren -- special assistant to King's widow, Coretta Scott King, at the Atlanta-based King Center -- said King never publicly discussed his views about homosexuality but, in private conversations with his wife, expressed concern about discrimination against gay men and lesbians.
Remember that this is the same man who kept Baynard Rustin as a close personal advisor despite the risks.
Thurmond also produced an FBI photograph of Rustin talking to King while King was bathing, to imply that there was a same-sex relationship between the two. Both men denied the allegation of an affair.
| 240 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:46:41pm |
re: #238 goddamnedfrank
Also from the Baynard Rustin page:
A few weeks before the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom in August, 1963, Senator Strom Thurmond railed against Rustin as a "Communist, draft-dodger, and homosexual," and had the entire Pasadena arrest file entered in the record.
God damn but Strom Thurmond was a hateful piece of shit.
| 241 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:47:59pm |
re: #238 goddamnedfrank
They didn't publicly mention it at all, but MLK's wife has recollections of private conversations.
Remember that this is the same man who kept Baynard Rustin as a close personal advisor despite the risks.
Good points.
However, anyone who says that fully institutionally, medically, governmentally, younameitally accepted homophobia was not the order of the day in 1968 is selling you something.
If King was more free of that than most, that may point to what a visionary he indeed was. Doesn't say much more.
| 242 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:49:24pm |
re: #240 goddamnedfrank
Also from the Baynard Rustin page:
God damn but Strom Thurmond was a hateful piece of shit.
Robert Byrd was in the KKK!!!!!!
///
| 243 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:56:04pm |
re: #240 goddamnedfrank
God damn but Strom Thurmond was a hateful piece of shit.
Hey! You are WRONG!
Strom Thurmond (R - Party of Lincoln) unlike Robert Byrd (D - Party of Axis) had sex with a African American
girllady, who he must have fallen deep in love with! because why would he have sex with her and make a baby if not!And that was in the 1930s! See how ahead of his time he was!
Hate to even have to say this but I have had these conversation with dumb confederates. They really are this dumb.
| 244 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Sep 27, 2011 11:59:09pm |
re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist
However, anyone who says that fully institutionally, medically, governmentally, younameitally accepted homophobia was not the order of the day in 1968 is selling you something.
And wasn't even dismantled officially in the military until some time last week.
I do find it funny that even as WW5 was predicted over Park 51, and Armageddon over the end of DADT, both blew over with no events.
Political showbiz.
| 245 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:03:18am |
re: #243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Hate to even have to say this but I have had these conversation with dumb confederates. They really are this dumb.
It is true that Robert Byrd never got an African-American woman pregnant that I am aware of. Because he was a racist, clearly. Truly, the man's depravity knew no bounds.
Of course, this is starting to veer in the direction of that bizarre paper some years ago, about how the IDF's failure to rape Palestinian women indicated their deep and pathological racism.
| 246 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:04:19am |
re: #244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
And wasn't even dismantled officially in the military until some time last week.
I do find it funny that even as WW5 was predicted over Park 51, and Armageddon over the end of DADT, both blew over with no events.
Political showbiz.
I think that some characters are lying low and assuming that DADT will be restored once the Obama administration is taken down.
| 247 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:11:03am |
re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist
I think that some characters are lying low and assuming that DADT will be restored once the Obama administration is taken down.
Yeah, the same characters waiting for a generation to overturn the CRAs. And I do not mean the Community Reinvestment Act, either, :D
My advice to them: do hold your breath...but don't forget your Medicare oxygen tanks.
/Schadenfreude
| 248 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:13:52am |
re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist
It is true that Robert Byrd never got an African-American woman pregnant that I am aware of. Because he was a racist, clearly. Truly, the man's depravity knew no bounds.
Of course, this is starting to veer in the direction of that bizarre paper some years ago, about how the IDF's failure to rape Palestinian women indicated their deep and pathological racism.
Same warped mentality.
You can tell he hates his white side or else he would have chosen someone like Ginny Thomas instead of Moochelle!
| 249 |
freetoken Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:18:21am |
Did anyone catch TheSarah Tuesday night on Fox, calling Herman Cain by the name "Herb Cain", not once or twice or three times, but four times!
She also calls him the "flavor of the week".
Bwahhh!
| 250 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:20:33am |
re: #249 freetoken
Did anyone catch TheSarah Tuesday night on Fox, calling Herman Cain by the name "Herb Cain", not once or twice or three times, but four times!
[Video]She also calls him the "flavor of the week".
Bwahhh!
Does she know who Herb Caen was? Seems unlikely.
| 251 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:22:37am |
re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist
It is true that Robert Byrd never got an African-American
womangirl pregnant that I am aware of. Because he was a racist, clearly. Truly, the man's depravity knew no bounds.
She was 15 at the time she became pregnant, seven years his junior, and his maid. Gave birth at 16. Nothing says I love you like screwing the underage help, refusing to acknowledge the resulting daughter publicly.
| 252 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:28:47am |
re: #251 goddamnedfrank
She was 15 at the time she became pregnant, seven years his junior, and his maid. Gave birth at 16. Nothing says I love you like screwing the underage help, refusing to acknowledge the resulting daughter publicly.
All joking aside, the man was scum.
But I don't talk about him much, here, anymore, because we used to have a Lizard who would appear on command if I ever said anything about Trent Lott and the Birthday Speech, and defend both Thurmond and Lott. Now that she's gone, I just don't feel the same about it.
| 253 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:46:43am |
re: #251 goddamnedfrank
She was 15 at the time she became pregnant, seven years his junior, and his maid. Gave birth at 16. Nothing says I love you like screwing the underage help, refusing to acknowledge the resulting daughter publicly.
Confederate rapist.
| 254 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:53:37am |
re: #249 freetoken
Did anyone catch TheSarah Tuesday night on Fox, calling Herman Cain by the name "Herb Cain", not once or twice or three times, but four times!
[Video]She also calls him the "flavor of the week".
Bwahhh!
Oh my. Finally something worth blogging about re: The Sarah.
She is such a dork.
| 255 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:53:53am |
re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist
All joking aside, the man was scum.
But I don't talk about him much, here, anymore, because we used to have a Lizard who would appear on command if I ever said anything about Trent Lott and the Birthday Speech, and defend both Thurmond and Lott. Now that she's gone, I just don't feel the same about it.
I miss Mandy. This part really gets to me:
Carrie Butler died in poverty and pain at the young age of 38.
How fucked up is it that this human being got knocked up, statutorily — no — in all likelihood out and out raped at 15 by one of the richest, most privileged & selfish schmucks in US history, and died broke and physically broken some 23 years later. A daughter lost her mother at such a young age and I'm to believe that all of her rapist father's vast wealth and power couldn't have done something to avert or mitigate that.
| 256 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 12:59:16am |
But he had a vision for America. One that is (sadly) still alive today...
| 257 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 1:04:49am |
My "s" key is going out.
For future posts: s s s s s s s s s s s
| 263 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 28, 2011 2:21:47am |
| 264 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 2:24:36am |
He later told officers he was tired of being "run off the road," and he rammed the other vehicles purposely "to defend himself because they were out to get him."
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
Paranoia. It's what's for dinner.
| 265 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 2:34:03am |
re: #263 goddamnedfrank
[Video]
Hey!
Shut up!
States rights means personal freedom and liberty! So shut up!
| 266 |
freetoken Wed, Sep 28, 2011 2:39:57am |
re: #263 goddamnedfrank
Do they have to end the sentence with the phrase "... in Jesus' name" ...???
| 267 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 2:41:20am |
Germany slams 'stupid' US plans to boost EU rescue fund
Not really what happened, but then again, it's The Telegraph…
German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble said it would be a folly to boost the EU's bail-out machinery (EFSF) beyond its €440bn lending limit by deploying leverage to up to €2 trillion, perhaps by raising funds from the European Central Bank.
"I don't understand how anyone in the European Commission can have such a stupid idea. The result would be to endanger the AAA sovereign debt ratings of other member states. It makes no sense," he said.
Mr Schauble told Washington to mind its own businesss after President Barack Obama rebuked EU leaders for failing to recapitalise banks and allowing the debt crisis to escalate to the point where it is "scaring the world".
"It's always much easier to give advice to others than to decide for yourself. I am well prepared to give advice to the US government," he said.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]
| 268 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 2:46:09am |
These are my friends, who are currently visiting me:
| 269 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 2:59:07am |
This is the kind of shit you see on TV dramas.
CLEVELAND (CBS Cleveland) – Three men were arrested after a 16-year-old boy was reportedly shot in the eye while looking through the peephole of his front door, leaving him fighting for life.
[Link: cleveland.cbslocal.com...]
| 270 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:02:09am |
re: #263 goddamnedfrank
[Video]
What a terrible precedent!
It could lead to
DMV workers smiling at the counter as they renew your registration
Dept. of Human Service workers being {gasp} helpful!!
State tax agents helping fix an error in your return!!
OH NOES!!!!
| 272 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:11:59am |
re: #270 sattv4u2
FTA:
Democratic Party Chairman Dick Harpootlian called it juvenile and in many cases inappropriate. Harpootlian says it's a great day for someone getting a government check and living in the Governor's Mansion.
What a fuckin' hack.
| 273 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:15:01am |
Saudi Woman Driver Sentenced to Lash After King Grants Vote
Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Two days after Saudi King Abdullah’s decision to allow women to participate in elections, two Saudi women were punished for breaking the ban on female driving: One was sentenced to 10 lashes by a court in Jeddah and another was detained in Riyadh.
The incidents highlight the continuing disparity between the rights of men and women in the kingdom. Women may be able to vote and run in the 2015 municipal elections, but they still can’t drive, argue in court before a judge, travel or get an education or a job without male approval.
[Link: www.businessweek.com...]
Yeah, some "progress" this is. ///
| 274 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:16:45am |
re: #273 000G
Saudi Woman Driver Sentenced to Lash After King Grants Vote
[Link: www.businessweek.com...]Yeah, some "progress" this is. ///
As if we were in any position to protest this sort of medieval practice by boycotting their products...
| 275 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:17:05am |
| 276 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:19:15am |
Follow-up to this: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Israel says Palestinians caused deadly car crash
JERUSALEM — Israeli authorities say Palestinian assailants are to blame for a car crash that killed an Israeli father and his infant son in the West Bank last week.
Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld says the investigation has found that the Israeli man lost control of his car after he was hit in the head by a stone. Palestinian youths regularly throw stones at Israeli cars in the West Bank.
Israel's Defense Ministry said on Wednesday that the "results of the investigation show it was a terror attack." The crash was initially thought to have been an accident.
[Link: www.ajc.com...]
| 277 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:23:53am |
I posted a story the other morning about a guy who was attacked by a shark while spear fishing. Well, whatdayaknow?
[Link: www.mysuncoast.com...]
FWIW, I posted:
Shark 1, Human 0.
| 278 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:27:38am |
re: #277 Cannadian Club Akbar
I posted a story the other morning about a guy who was attacked by a shark while spear fishing. Well, whatdayaknow?
[Link: www.mysuncoast.com...]FWIW, I posted:
Shark 1, Human 0.
FTA
I think it will cause people to be more sensitive towards fish,"
I'm always "sensitive" towards fish
I gently rub the spices on before grilling
I NEVER cook on high heat or direct flame
I always chew slowly
| 279 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:28:25am |
It's not like the shark could not argue self-defense...
| 280 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:29:34am |
re: #279 ralphieboy
It's not like the shark could not argue self-defense...
yeah, but how to prove pre-meditation!
| 281 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:30:06am |
re: #279 ralphieboy
It's not like the shark could not argue self-defense...
Actually, you don't spearfish for shark. That's like going into a bear cage and poking it with a stick.
| 282 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:30:39am |
| 283 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:31:50am |
If PETA wants us to call fish Sea Kittehns, what do we call sharks?
| 284 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:31:54am |
re: #276 000G
That sucks. Poor guy, poor kid. Poor wife, now widow.
| 285 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:36:17am |
re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar
If PETA wants us to call fish Sea Kittehns, what do we call sharks?
I avoid calling sharks
What happens if they answer?
| 286 |
Targetpractice Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:41:08am |
| 287 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:42:19am |
re: #286 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Land shark?
Well yeah
After you hook one, you try to land it!!
/
| 288 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:42:27am |
re: #285 sattv4u2
I avoid calling sharks
What happens if they answer?
If they bring this girl to the party, C'MON IN!!!
[Link: hss-prod.hss.aol.com...]
| 289 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:42:44am |
| 290 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:44:15am |
re: #284 Obdicut
That sucks. Poor guy, poor kid. Poor wife, now widow.
Feeling especially for the widow. Her kid and husband at least rest in peace. Although their lives are lost, her own life will probably dominated by anguish.
| 291 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:47:14am |
| 292 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:49:27am |
re: #291 sattv4u2
This bad boy was caught off of Boca Grande.
Image: shark-trailer.jpg
| 293 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:50:54am |
re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar
This bad boy was caught off of Boca Grande.
Image: shark-trailer.jpg
No wonder it was caught
It was it swimming around on a boat trailer. Must have slowed it down some!!
| 294 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:52:01am |
Poll: Gov. Chris Christie's approval rating increased drastically since May
[Link: www.nj.com...]
Gov. Chris Christie's approval rating has increased dramatically since he signed the pension and health benefit overhaul for public workers and publicly led the state through Hurricane Irene.
A Fairleigh Dickinson University PublicMind poll released this morning shows 54 percent of New Jersey voters approve of Christie's performance, while 36 percent disapprove. That's up from a 44 percent even split in May.
Maybe his chances at winning reelection in NJ aren't as bad as some have been saying.
| 296 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:56:56am |
It would be a shame if something bad happened to their boat:
Iran planning to send ships near U.S. waters
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
Iran plans to send ships near the Atlantic coast of the United States, state-run Islamic Republic News Agency reported Tuesday, quoting a commander.
"The Navy of the Iranian Army will have a powerful presence near the United States borders," read the headline of the story, in Farsi.
"Commander of the Navy of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Iran broke the news about the plans for the presence of this force in the Atlantic Ocean and said that the same way that the world arrogant power is present near our marine borders, we, with the help of our sailors who follow the concept of the supreme jurisprudence, shall also establish a powerful presence near the marine borders of the United States," the story said. The reference to the "world arrogant power" was presumably intended to refer to the United States.
| 297 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:57:05am |
Chris Christie could win the presidential election, but never the GOP nomination.
| 298 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:57:09am |
re: #294 RogueOne
re: #295 sattv4u2
Is the NJ gov election in 2012?
nevahmind
Nov. 2013
[Link: www.ourcampaigns.com...]
SO ,,, doesn't matter what his approve/disapprove rating is "now"
| 299 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:58:32am |
| 300 |
Targetpractice Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:59:06am |
re: #297 ralphieboy
Chris Christie could win the presidential election, but never the GOP nomination.
Christie's no less vulnerable than Perry or Romney to questions of "flip-flopping." He'd have to run too far to the right to get the nomination, which would only hurt his chances for reelection back home. Better to simply sit this one out, see what happens, and possibly consider a run in '16.
| 301 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:59:31am |
re: #296 RogueOne
I wonder if people would hire planes to fly banners around the thing.
| 302 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:02:21am |
re: #297 ralphieboy
Chris Christie could win the presidential election, but never the GOP nomination.
I think he can this time but I'm not so sure about 4 years from now.
| 303 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:04:53am |
re: #300 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Better to simply sit this one out, see what happens, and possibly consider a run in '16 '20.
He wouldn't take a run at a sitting repub president!!
:)
//
| 304 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:06:33am |
re: #302 RogueOne
I think he can this time but I'm not so sure about 4 years from now.
That is what he is thinking. I am sure his idea is to keep himself known as a potential prospect to help the GOP recover from the drubbing it is walking into in 2012...
| 305 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:06:58am |
Did you know that race-baiters is not in the spelling dictionary on my computer?
Wanna know what is?
Race-biters, Race-basters, Race-banters, Race-barters, Race-batters
Funny. I've never heard of any of those other words used in conjunction.
What's up Race-baiters?
| 306 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:08:31am |
re: #305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Did you know that race-baiters is not in the spelling dictionary on my computer?
Wanna know what is?
Race-biters, Race-basters, Race-banters, Race-barters, Race-batters
Funny. I've never heard of any of those other words used in conjunction.
What's up Race-baiters?
Try the word "master".
| 307 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:08:58am |
re: #305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What's up Race-baiters
They suck, no matter what the biters/basters/banters/barters/batters say
| 308 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:09:35am |
| 309 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:10:52am |
| 310 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:11:05am |
re: #304 ralphieboy
That is what he is thinking. I am sure his idea is to keep himself known as a potential prospect to help the GOP recover from the drubbing it is walking into in 2012...
This is why I love a lot of the commenters on this site. Some of the funniest lines ever! This one and the joke Kilgore is always laying out there about the dems holding the senate and retaking the house just kill me, good times.///
You guys are probably still laying down money on the cubs winning the world series this year.
| 311 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:12:09am |
| 312 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:15:42am |
I believe humans get a lot done. Not because we're smart; but because we have thumbs so we can make coffee. ~Flash Rosenberg
| 313 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:16:21am |
re: #310 RogueOne
This time, they're HOPING things WON'T CHANGE!!
/
| 314 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:16:26am |
re: #312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You had a great one the other day that I wanted to remember...but I've already forgotten it.
| 315 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:16:52am |
re: #310 RogueOne
This is why I love a lot of the commenters on this site. Some of the funniest lines ever! This one and the joke Kilgore is always laying out there about the dems holding the senate and retaking the house just kill me, good times.///
You guys are probably still laying down money on the cubs winning the world series this year.
I grew up in Chicago and gave up on the Cubs in 1968. But what is the GOP gonna look like if they nominate anyone but Romney at this point?
It might not be a drubbing, but they will have to be embarrassed that they could not take out a president in such a weak position.
And if they nominate Romney and still lose, then it will just strengthen the calls from the Tea party to purge the party of the ideologically impure...
| 316 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:17:28am |
re: #311 sattv4u2
I've always thought that Aykroyd was the worst SNL alumnus who was famous for being great on SNL.
He was awful.
| 317 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:18:09am |
re: #314 RogueOne
You had a great one the other day that I wanted to remember...but I've already forgotten it.
Awesome!
| 318 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:18:24am |
re: #313 sattv4u2
This time, they're HOPING things WON'T CHANGE!!
/
The house is staying republican and the senate is switching hands, it's only a question of if they'll pick up enough seats to have a 60-40 split.
Not to irritate my republican friends but I'm sort of rooting for Perry because I don't think he can win. I'd rather not go through a single party rule again. We've seen how well that works over the last decade.
| 319 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:18:40am |
| 320 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:19:13am |
re: #316 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I've always thought that Aykroyd was the worst SNL alumnus who was famous for being great on SNL.
He was awful.
I dunno
At least he played off of Belushi well
Laraine Newman otoh,,, I never "got"
| 321 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:19:31am |
re: #315 ralphieboy
Romney can win and probably will if he wins the nomination. Like I said previously, I'm rooting for Perry.
| 322 |
mdey Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:20:20am |
re: #316 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Aykroyd was a great writer. So-so performer.
| 323 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:20:35am |
re: #320 sattv4u2
I dunno
At least he played off of Belushi well
Laraine Newman otoh,,, I never "got"
The Bees and the Gorch Muppets were the best things on the first season.
| 324 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:21:07am |
| 325 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:21:39am |
re: #321 RogueOne
Romney can win and probably will if he wins the nomination. Like I said previously, I'm rooting for Perry.
So am I, but I'm voting for Obama.
| 326 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:22:13am |
Romney is on Morning Joe for those that are interested.
| 328 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:23:56am |
re: #325 Decatur Deb
So am I, but I'm voting for Obama.
I wouldn't vote for Perry (or Obama), I just want him to win the nomination in the hope that we'll have split control.
| 329 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:24:48am |
re: #320 sattv4u2
I remember when the Skyway was hit by a ship and on "Weekend Update" they joked about people not paying their tolls so they dropped the center span. That was Jane Curtain, though. People here were not happy.
| 330 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:24:52am |
re: #316 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I've always thought that Aykroyd was the worst SNL alumnus who was famous for being great on SNL.
He was awful.
Chevy Chase
| 331 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:24:59am |
re: #326 RogueOne
Romney is on Morning Joe for those that are interested.
In case the Dems implode, we should want someone sort of sane like Romney or Huntsman in your slot, but that just shows how the definition of 'sane' has...matured.
| 332 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:26:04am |
| 333 |
mdey Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:26:38am |
re: #327 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
She's ok some of the time. I was just watching the Richard Pryor episode where she was in the Exorcist skit. She was pretty good.
| 334 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:29:33am |
re: #331 Decatur Deb
In case the Dems implode, we should want someone sort of sane like Romney or Huntsman in your slot, but that just shows how the definition of 'sane' has...matured.
It's not a matter of imploding, it's pure numbers. They have a lot more senate seats open plus a few retirements which points to a decent size loss. The house will stay repub and thanks to the 2010 elections and redistricting they might even pick up seats. The president is going to have a tough time winning reelection with the economy in the toilet, a Perry nomination would be helpful to his chances.
The worst-case scenario, as I see it, would be the election season ending with republicans holding 60 senate seats, holding the house, and having Wishwashy-Romney as president.
| 335 |
mdey Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:29:49am |
re: #330 RogueOne
Chevy Chase was great on SNL. What are you talking about?
| 336 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:29:52am |
re: #333 mdey
She's ok some of the time. I was just watching the Richard Pryor episode where she was in the Exorcist skit. She was pretty good.
Out of the original cast, she had the least impact both during and after (imho)
| 337 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:30:13am |
re: #332 Cannadian Club Akbar
President Ford helped him for about 4 years.
Always thought Ford got lousy treatment. If you put a newscamera on me 16/7, I'd look like Soupy Sales.
| 338 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:31:29am |
re: #337 Decatur Deb
Always thought Ford got lousy treatment. If you put a newscamera on me 16/7, I'd look like Soupy Sales.
This can't be true. I love Soupy Sales!!!
///
| 339 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:31:43am |
re: #334 RogueOne
'''snip..
The worst-case scenario, as I see it, would be the election season ending with republicans holding 60 senate seats, holding the house, and having Wishwashy-Romney as president.
Ontario Scenario.
| 340 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:32:22am |
re: #335 mdey
Chevy Chase was great on SNL. What are you talking about?
Besides the Ford gags and the infamous Richard Pryor bit I can't recall anything he did that was funny. Most of his movies, other than the Vacation movie, sucked. IMO of course...
| 341 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:32:29am |
re: #338 Cannadian Club Akbar
This can't be true. I love Soupy Sales!!!
///
You're confused
You love Selling Soup
Thats different!
| 342 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:32:52am |
re: #340 RogueOne
Besides the Ford gags and the infamous Richard Pryor bit I can't recall anything he did that was funny. Most of his movies, other than the Vacation movie, sucked. IMO of course...
Fletch RULES!!!
| 343 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:33:27am |
re: #340 RogueOne
Besides the Ford gags and the infamous Richard Pryor bit I can't recall anything he did that was funny. Most of his movies, other than the Vacation movie, sucked. IMO of course...
He was good in Caddy Shack and great (imho) in the 1st Fletch
| 344 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:33:35am |
re: #338 Cannadian Club Akbar
This can't be true. I love Soupy Sales!!!
///
Go to mommy's purse and send me some funny green pieces of paper.
| 345 |
mdey Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:33:38am |
re: #336 sattv4u2
I wasn't saying she was great, compared to the original players. She was definitely not horrible though.
| 346 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:34:28am |
re: #339 Decatur Deb
Ontario Scenario.
I had to google that. The only thing that came up was paintball teams.
| 347 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:34:40am |
hey, folks.
| 349 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:35:33am |
re: #346 RogueOne
I had to google that. The only thing that came up was paintball teams.
Went for the rhyme. That's the political scenario where we all line up at the Canadian border.
| 350 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:35:49am |
re: #340 RogueOne
His news reports made people want to like him. I think it worked, for the most part.
Everybody except for you, anyway.
| 351 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:35:57am |
re: #304 ralphieboy
That is what he is thinking. I am sure his idea is to keep himself known as a potential prospect to help the GOP recover from the drubbing it is walking into in 2012...
What drubbing?
| 352 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:36:12am |
| 353 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:38:12am |
re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
His news reports made people want to like him. I think it worked, for the most part.
Everybody except for you, anyway.
Did you catch the Lawn' Order where he played the obnoxious anti-Semite?
| 354 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:38:38am |
If this weren't so "Geographically Challenged" it be funnier.
Someone went to all that trouble and didn't think to ask where this is?
| 355 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:40:11am |
re: #353 Decatur Deb
Must be his current character on "Community". A funny, quirky, very original show, IMO.
| 356 |
mdey Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:40:37am |
re: #352 Sergey Romanov
The stalkers seem to be going after you a lot lately. I'm sure you're really concerned
///
| 357 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:41:38am |
Chevy Chase/Richard Pryor "Word Association"
I don't think they could do this skit on national tv today.
| 358 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:41:56am |
re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Must be his current character on "Community". A funny, quirky, very original show, IMO.
Haven't seen 'Community'. The L&O was from the Lenny/Greene era.
| 359 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:42:12am |
re: #356 mdey
The stalkers seem to be going after you a lot lately. I'm sure you're really concerned
///
He's wonderboy. He can take it.
| 360 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:43:24am |
re: #357 RogueOne
Chevy Chase/Richard Pryor "Word Association"
[Link: www.funnyordie.com...]I don't think they could do this skit on national tv today.
And we lose for it. That helped to teach the kids better than 'Teaching Tolerance' pamphlets.
| 361 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:44:14am |
re: #356 mdey
The stalkers seem to be going after you a lot lately. I'm sure you're really concerned
///
Heh, one post is not a lot.
| 362 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:44:34am |
re: #360 Decatur Deb
And we lose for it. That helped to teach the kids better than 'Teaching Tolerance' pamphlets.
I remember the Bill Cosby film I saw in skool where he threw out every word possible on all races.
| 363 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:45:15am |
re: #361 Sergey Romanov
And those guys can't complain to the holocaust denier stalkers you already have, anyway.
You're getting a collection, though; holocaust denier stalkers, Serbian genocide denier stalkers. Seems to be a bit of a theme.
| 364 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:45:21am |
re: #359 RogueOne
He's wonderboy. He can take it.
"That's alright, son. You're not a man until you've caught the clap a stalker."
| 365 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:50:26am |
re: #354 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If this weren't so "Geographically Challenged" it be funnier.
Someone went to all that trouble and didn't think to ask where this is?
Canada went and occupied North Dakota while we weren't looking?
| 366 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:50:32am |
re: #363 Obdicut
I kinda collect all those monikers I get. I've been called everything from a neo-Bolshevik and neo-Stalinist to a Russophobe, Jew lib and a Goebbels guy. The loonies of the whole spectrum hate me. I'm satisfied.
| 367 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:52:36am |
re: #365 Alouette
Canada went and occupied North Dakota while we weren't
lookingcaring?
Hey ,, it's North Dakota
It's not like it's an important state!!!
//
| 368 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:52:45am |
re: #365 Alouette
Canada went and occupied North Dakota while we weren't looking?
It happened years ago but nobody cared.
| 369 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:53:24am |
re: #351 Sergey Romanov
What drubbing?
I corrected that in a later post: not necessarily a drubbing, but if they nominate anyone but Romney and lose against a highly vulnerable incumbent, it will be very embarrassing for the GOP.
| 370 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:53:31am |
| 371 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:54:31am |
re: #366 Sergey Romanov
Your view that some political philosophies should be grounds for throwing people in jail hurt my feelings. I don't hate you, I'm just sorely disappointed.///
| 372 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:54:57am |
re: #371 RogueOne
I'm not a libertarian.
| 373 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:55:45am |
| 374 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:55:58am |
re: #372 Sergey Romanov
I'm not a libertarian.
Tell me you don't have a soft spot in your heart for Ron Paul...
| 375 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:56:04am |
re: #371 RogueOne
Your view that some political philosophies should be grounds for throwing people in jail hurt my feelings. I don't hate you, I'm just sorely disappointed.///
Also, not so much political philosophies as their agitprop. You propagandize neo-Nazism is Russia? You go to prison. Fair, as far as I'm concerned.
| 376 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:57:14am |
re: #374 ralphieboy
Tell me you don't have a soft spot in your heart for Ron Paul...
I don't have a soft spot in my heart for Ron Paul. However, I learned not to stereotype his followers as skinheads and racists. There are some decent people there.
| 377 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:57:20am |
re: #374 ralphieboy
Tell me you don't have a soft spot in your heart for Ron Paul...
PAUL/NADER 2012!!!!
/half
| 378 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:57:49am |
re: #374 ralphieboy
Tell me you don't have a soft spot in your heart for Ron Paul...
I don't have soft spot in your heart for Ron Paul...
| 379 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:58:02am |
re: #376 Sergey Romanov
I don't have a soft spot in my heart for Ron Paul. However, I learned not to stereotype his followers as skinheads and racists. There are some decent people there.
Jon Stewart. Seriously, who saw that coming?
| 380 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:58:29am |
re: #379 RogueOne
Can't comment, haven't seen yet.
| 381 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:58:34am |
re: #378 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I don't have soft spot in your heart for Ron Paul...
You learn well, grasshopper!!
:)
| 382 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 4:59:14am |
re: #375 Sergey Romanov
Also, not so much political philosophies as their agitprop. You propagandize neo-Nazism is Russia? You go to prison. Fair, as far as I'm concerned.
"Fair" is not an historian's word. I'll go with "understandable".
| 383 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:00:57am |
re: #380 Sergey Romanov
Can't comment, haven't seen yet.
Are you able to pick up Comedy Central/Hulu feeds online from your location or do you have to take a more circuitous route?
| 384 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:02:18am |
re: #379 RogueOne
Jon Stewart. Seriously, who saw that coming?
If Stewart is a R/P follower, I'm a probable Klansman, for the lunch tables I've filled.
| 385 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:03:00am |
Wall Street protesters, joined today by Oscar-winning actress Susan Sarandon, vowed to continue weeks of demonstrations after police squirted pepper spray at some participants and arrests mounted.
About 100 people camped out with mattresses and sleeping bags in Zuccotti Park as demonstrations against financial firms continued for an 11th day.
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
Miss Sarandon could not be reached for comment as she was on a private jet headed for the French Riviera
| 386 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:04:05am |
re: #384 Decatur Deb
If Stewart is a R/P follower, I'm a probable Klansman, for the lunch tables I've filled.
I don't know, I think Stewart might be a closet Paul fan. Either that or he likes to stir shit. It could go either way//
| 387 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:05:16am |
re: #383 RogueOne
Are you able to pick up Comedy Central/Hulu feeds online from your location or do you have to take a more circuitous route?
CC is available anywhere, Hulu only in the US. I tried to get Hulu through proxies like ctunnel to no avail.
| 388 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:05:23am |
re: #386 RogueOne
I don't know, I think Stewart might be a closet Paul fan. Either that or he likes to stir shit. It could go either way//
"Stir shit" is the second critical element in his job description.
| 389 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:05:52am |
re: #385 sattv4u2
FTA:
Zhi Wang, a smoothie vendor with a food cart on the park’s south sidewalk, said he’s likely lost “a couple hundred” dollars from protesters occupying the area.
“Right now it’s slow,” said Wang, 22. “There used to be lunch people sitting here. Now I don’t see any.”
Let's protest Wall Street!!!
Unintended consequences and all that.
| 390 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:07:16am |
re: #389 Cannadian Club Akbar
FTA:
Zhi Wang, a smoothie vendor with a food cart on the park’s south sidewalk, said he’s likely lost “a couple hundred” dollars from protesters occupying the area.“Right now it’s slow,” said Wang, 22. “There used to be lunch people sitting here. Now I don’t see any.”
Let's protest Wall Street!!!
Unintended consequences and all that.
A flexible capitalist cart vendor would make up a granola smoothie and sell to the kids.
| 391 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:07:20am |
re: #388 Decatur Deb
"Stir shit" is the second critical element in his job description.
The day he came back after 911... he said, "My job is to throw spitballs at the world".
I've always loved that analogy with Jon.
| 392 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:08:09am |
John Stewart has long been pointing out that the GOP goes out of its way to ignore Ron Paul as a candidate and concentrate on "serious" contenders like Cain and Santorum...
| 393 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:08:34am |
re: #390 Decatur Deb
A flexible capitalist cart vendor would make up a granola smoothie and sell to the kids.
I would make a "Fletcher's Castoria" smoothie.:)
| 394 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:08:37am |
re: #387 Sergey Romanov
CC is available anywhere, Hulu only in the US. I tried to get Hulu through proxies like ctunnel to no avail.
I was just curious. I thought Hulu was only available in the US but I wasn't sure about CC. Damn fereigners stealing our jobs bandwidth!
| 395 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:09:37am |
re: #382 Decatur Deb
"Fair" is not an historian's word. I'll go with "understandable".
I don't like this word, since it is used as an apology for shitty things too often. I just don't think it's wrong. AFAIC, I can even establish a basis for this by using the "Fire!" in the crowded theater analogy, theater being a country with volatile ethnic and political issues.
| 396 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:09:50am |
re: #393 Cannadian Club Akbar
I would make a "Fletcher's Castoria" smoothie.:)
Would be a local favorite in Fostoria, Queens.
| 397 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:11:51am |
re: #395 Sergey Romanov
But didn't you say the guy falsely claiming there to be a fire should rather be refuted than thrown into prison?
| 398 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:13:37am |
re: #394 RogueOne
I was just curious. I thought Hulu was only available in the US but I wasn't sure about CC. Damn fereigners stealing our
jobsbandwidth!
That's jeeerbs, you vandal.
| 399 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:14:04am |
re: #395 Sergey Romanov
I don't like this worl, since it is used as an apology for shitty things too often. I just don't think it's wrong. AFAIC, I can even establish a basis for this by using the "Fire!" in the crowded theater analogy, theater being a country with volatile ethnic and political issues.
That's getting into the mindset of 'Emergency Measures'. I'm willing to accept that some emergencies can last several generations.
| 400 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:14:29am |
re: #397 000G
But didn't you say the guy falsely claiming there to be a fire should rather be refuted than thrown into prison?
No.
| 401 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:17:06am |
Wonder what would have happened if Emil Gansser v. Friedrich Ebert actually had gone through the courts…
| 402 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:17:50am |
re: #401 000G
Wonder what would have happened if Emil Gansser v. Friedrich Ebert actually had gone through the courts…
Tennis or Law??
/
| 403 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:19:39am |
re: #402 sattv4u2
Case(s) somewhat important in the propagation of the stab-in-the-beck-legend that accused the German Left having started the November Revolution of being the reason why Germany lost WWI.
| 404 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:27:35am |
This is the way these issues should be handled. They shouldn't be charged with a crime, they should be tossed off the team and out of school.
Greenwood boots 4 football players over bullying
[Link: www.indystar.com...]
BTW, Greenwood is known as a redneck suburb of Indy and it's had some good press over the last week or so. Last week the Police Chief got rid of weapons he thought were too dangerous for them to have:
Greenwood cops want to get rid of machine pistols
[Link: www.wthr.com...]
| 405 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:29:09am |
re: #404 RogueOne
Greenwood boots 4 football players over bullying
How soon before the parents sue the coach, the principle, the school district and the state?
| 406 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:29:50am |
re: #399 Decatur Deb
That's getting into the mindset of 'Emergency Measures'. I'm willing to accept that some emergencies can last several generations.
I have a bit of a different take - I think that there are problems with any form of absolutism ("X is always right/wrong, and this supersedes any other rule) because human behavior is too complex to codify by any one simple rule, and (more practically) powerful people will always be able to exploit such a system.
The "freedom of speech" situation in the US is in some ways close to absolutism. But you're always trading off one freedom/right against another. One man's freedom to express his opinion is another man's freedom to read hateful graffiti about his sexual preferences every day.
Obviously I think you can prioritize one right over another, and a positive interpretation of US laws and customs would be that this is, in fact, what currently happens. A negative interpretation, on the other hand, would be that the powerful have figured out how to exploit "freedom of speech" to entrench their status at the expense of everyone else.
| 407 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:32:00am |
re: #406 iossarian
Germans simply see it that any ideology that actively advocates overthrowing the state and abolishing the Constitution should be banned. They see fascism as falling under that heading.
| 408 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:32:51am |
re: #405 sattv4u2
Greenwood boots 4 football players over bullying
How soon before the parents sue the coach, the principle, the school district and the state?
2 of them exposed themselves, it's going to be hard to argue that shouldn't get them tossed out of school.
| 410 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:34:51am |
re: #407 ralphieboy
Germans simply see it that any ideology that actively advocates overthrowing the state and abolishing the Constitution should be banned. They see fascism as falling under that heading.
Well, quite. My point was that it's OK to recognize that there is a tension between different rights, and that it may be the case that there isn't one right that trumps all the others, as it were.
In the case of Germany, it would be interesting to know, for example, whether it would be legal to convene an academic conference discussing the limitations of the current legal framework/constitution, and suggesting changes to it.
| 411 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:35:08am |
re: #404 RogueOne
Check this:
Largo has had a citywide ban on squirt guns — along with all toy guns, toy cannons and slingshots — since 1997.
While it's unclear if Second Amendment gun rights extend to Super Soakers, water gun rights advocates need not get up in arms. Largo police don't enforce the ban, and the city staff will revise the ordinance at Mayor Pat Gerard's request.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
Idiots. did I mention unintended consequences yet?
| 412 |
Targetpractice Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:37:07am |
Florida apparently didn't learn its lesson last time around:
First on CNN: Florida will likely hold Jan. primary, threatening presidential calendar
Washington (CNN) -- Florida is now expected to hold its presidential primary on the last day in January 2012, a move likely to throw the carefully arranged Republican nominating calendar into disarray and jumpstart the nominating process a month earlier than party leaders had hoped.
Florida House Speaker Dean Cannon told CNN on Tuesday that a state commission exploring potential primary dates is likely to choose January 31 to hold the nominating contest.
If that happens, it would almost certainly force the traditional early states of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada to leapfrog Florida and move their primaries and caucuses into early- to mid-January.
*snip*
States that ignore the RNC rules are subject to losing half of their delegates -- party representatives who ultimately choose the nominee -- to the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Florida, next August.
RNC Chairman Reince Priebus and other GOP officials have been aggressively lobbying Florida Gov. Rick Scott and state legislative leaders to move the primary back to February 21 in a last-ditch effort to protect the integrity of the nominating calendar, sources told CNN.
Even under the February 21 scenario, Florida would still lose half of its delegates.
But the proposal would allow Florida to go fifth on the calendar -- a coveted position that the state held in 2008 and hopes to hold again in 2012.
| 413 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:38:11am |
re: #411 Cannadian Club Akbar
Check this:
Largo has had a citywide ban on squirt guns — along with all toy guns, toy cannons and slingshots — since 1997.While it's unclear if Second Amendment gun rights extend to Super Soakers, water gun rights advocates need not get up in arms. Largo police don't enforce the ban, and the city staff will revise the ordinance at Mayor Pat Gerard's request.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
Idiots. did I mention unintended consequences yet?
IIRC, there was a lot of publicity about cases of cops shooting kids who had realistic toys about that time.
| 414 |
freetoken Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:44:34am |
re: #412 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I suspect Florida Republicans don't care if they lose half their delegates.
By going first and being so much larger than IA or NH, Florida Republicans will likely direct the final outcome even if they lose half their punch. By giving a candidate who would fail in NH, like Cain or Perry, a leg up FL could guarantee a real republican wingnut gets the nomination.
| 415 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:46:36am |
re: #413 Decatur Deb
IIRC, there was a lot of publicity about cases of cops shooting kids who had realistic toys about that time.
When the law was first written in 1975, it limited the ban to city parks and recreation facilities. There is no written record explaining why city officials wanted to ban toy weapons from city parks.
| 416 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:48:37am |
Morning all!
Anyone awake?
| 417 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:49:09am |
re: #410 iossarian
In the case of Germany, it would be interesting to know, for example, whether it would be legal to convene an academic conference discussing the limitations of the current legal framework/constitution, and suggesting changes to it.
It would be, as long as you did not question the FDGO.
| 418 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:50:37am |
re: #413 Decatur Deb
IIRC, there was a lot of publicity about cases of cops shooting kids who had realistic toys about that time.
I believe it is a Federal Law now that all toy guns have to have at the very least a blaze orange type color on them.
If a criminal attempts to commit a crime with a toy gun that has been altered to cover-up the bright color, he is prosecuted as if it were a real gun.
| 419 |
Varek Raith Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:52:45am |
Iran planning to send ships near U.S. waters
Lol, how cute!
| 420 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:54:06am |
re: #410 iossarian
Well, quite. My point was that it's OK to recognize that there is a tension between different rights, and that it may be the case that there isn't one right that trumps all the others, as it were.
In the case of Germany, it would be interesting to know, for example, whether it would be legal to convene an academic conference discussing the limitations of the current legal framework/constitution, and suggesting changes to it.
Yes, of course. Just not to advocate the violent overthrow of the state to replace it with a dictatorship.
| 421 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:56:43am |
Some of you were talking about schools yesterday. Morning Joe has been doing a week long story on education. They just had Deborah Kenney on:
The best school in Harlem, a public-charter school:
[Link: www.harlemvillageacademies.org...]
NBC story:
[Link: www.harlemvillageacademies.org...]
| 422 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:57:09am |
I believe it is a Federal Law now that all toy guns have to have at the very least a blaze orange type color on them.If a criminal attempts to commit a crime with a toy gun that has been altered to cover-up the bright color, he is prosecuted as if it were a real gun.
Yeah--the orange tip was a definite response. Not quite the same thing, but even the Army paints its blank-fire muzzle adapters red for quick ID.
| 423 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 5:57:47am |
1988 Federal Code, Title 15,500 --look-alike or toy guns.
Except as provided in paragraph (2) or (3), each toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part, permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm. Such plug shall be recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the barrel of such firearm.
| 424 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:01:27am |
re: #422 Decatur Deb
Yeah--the orange tip was a definite response. Not quite the same thing, but even the Army paints its blank-fire muzzle adapters red for quick ID.
One of the funniest things I ever saw was someone getting shot in the chest by some asshat that had taken his blank adapter off. I can still remember the look on his face, good times.
| 425 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:03:16am |
re: #424 RogueOne
One of the funniest things I ever saw was someone getting shot in the chest by some asshat that had taken his blank adapter off. I can still remember the look on his face, good times.
Ok, I'm confused.
You have to explain this one to me. Was this person wearing a vest?
| 426 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:05:10am |
re: #425 ggt
Ok, I'm confused.
You have to explain this one to me. Was this person wearing a vest?
No
It wasn't a formal event!!
///
| 427 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:09:56am |
re: #425 ggt
No. Firing blanks would gum it up really bad so the butthole took off his adapter. It was during basic training. We were doing small unit maneuvers, "playing army" in the woods, and he jumps out from behind a tree and opened up on full auto and hit a guy dead in the chest from about 10'. It only shoots out a little wad of paper but it must have hurt because the guy grabbed his chest and started bouncing up and down yelling "YOU SHOT ME!". In retaliation he ran up and bashed him in the head with the butt of his M16. I almost wet myself laughing.
| 428 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:11:16am |
Blanks can be dangerous at close range, I have heard of cases of people being blinded by them.
| 429 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:12:17am |
re: #428 ralphieboy
Blanks can be dangerous at close range, I have heard of cases of people being blinded by them.
Didn't Brandon Lee mistakenly kill himself with a blank?
| 430 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:12:19am |
re: #427 RogueOne
No. Firing blanks would gum it up really bad so the butthole took off his adapter. It was during basic training. We were doing small unit maneuvers, "playing army" in the woods, and he jumps out from behind a tree and opened up on full auto and hit a guy dead in the chest from about 10'. It only shoots out a little wad of paper but it must have hurt because the guy grabbed his chest and started bouncing up and down yelling "YOU SHOT ME!". In retaliation he ran up and bashed him in the head with the butt of his M16. I almost wet myself laughing.
Sounds like one of those "don't try this at home" moments.
| 431 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:12:49am |
re: #428 ralphieboy
Blanks can be dangerous at close range, I have heard of cases of people being blinded by them.
Remember years ago, some actor on a new but popular TV series put a prop gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The pressure put part of his skull into his brain and he died.
| 432 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:13:50am |
re: #431 Cannadian Club Akbar
Remember years ago, some actor on a new but popular TV series put a prop gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The pressure put part of his skull into his brain and he died.
"The gun is always loaded", I can hear my Dear Ole' Dad saying, over and over and over.
| 433 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:14:41am |
re: #431 Cannadian Club Akbar
Remember years ago, some actor on a new but popular TV series put a prop gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The pressure put part of his skull into his brain and he died.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 434 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:15:42am |
re: #430 ggt
Sounds like one of those "don't try this at home" moments.
I spent 10 weeks LMAO. You take a bunch of kids, some of whom aren't very bright, give them about 5 hours of sleep at night, physically stress them out, scream at them all day, and then wait to see what happens. I had so much fun it was the only time during my life I kept a journal.
| 435 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:16:04am |
re: #429 RogueOne
Didn't Brandon Lee mistakenly kill himself with a blank?
There was a squib load that left a bullet stuck in the barrel. That was caused by an attempt to make fake bullets by taking out the powder and putting the bullet back into the case. They left the primers live, however, and one of them was fired leaving the bullet stuck. The blank that was later fired in the gun pushed the bullet out of the barrel and into Lee killing him.
| 436 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:16:29am |
"Since the movie's second unit was running behind schedule, they decided to make dummy cartridges (cartridges that outwardly appear to be functional but contain no propellant or primers) from real cartridges by pulling out the bullets, dumping out the propellant and reinserting the bullets. However, the team neglected to remove the primers, which, if fired, could still produce just enough force to push the bullet out of the cartridge and into the barrel (a squib load). At some point prior to the fatal scene, the live primer in one of the improperly constructed dummy rounds was discharged by an unknown person while in the pistol, leaving the bullet stuck in the barrel.[6]
This malfunction went unnoticed by the crew, and the same gun was later reloaded with blank cartridges and used in the scene in which Lee was shot. When the first blank cartridge was fired, the stuck bullet was propelled out of the barrel and struck Lee in the abdomen, lodging in his spine. He fell down instantly, and director Alex Proyas shouted "Cut!". When Lee did not get up, the cast and crew rushed to him and found that he was wounded. He was immediately rushed to the New Hanover Regional Medical Center in Wilmington by ambulance, but following a six-hour operation to remove the bullet, Lee was pronounced dead at 1:04 pm on March 31, 1993. He was 28 years old.[7]
| 437 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:17:00am |
re: #432 ggt
"The gun is always loaded", I can hear my Dear Ole' Dad saying, over and over and over.
This times a million. I would have a much smaller problem with the second amendment if there was a hardcore gun safety education program that was a general requirement before buying a weapon.
| 438 |
Varek Raith Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:18:03am |
Too many in this country treat guns like toys.
It disturbs me.
| 439 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:18:42am |
re: #437 iossarian
This times a million. I would have a much smaller problem with the second amendment if there was a hardcore gun safety education program that was a general requirement before buying a weapon.
Sad thing is that there are courses available, but people either don't know about them or won't attend because they are sponsored by NRA or their affiliates.
The ones I've been to are NRA classes, most of the instructors were cops.
| 440 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:19:43am |
re: #439 ggt
Sad thing is that there are courses available, but people either don't know about them or won't attend because they are sponsored by NRA or their affiliates.
The ones I've been too are NRA classes, most of the instructors were cops.
| 443 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:21:28am |
re: #437 iossarian
Did you know there is one in California for handguns?
| 444 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:21:46am |
re: #440 Cannadian Club Akbar
He took it like a man though didn't he?
| 445 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:22:01am |
re: #438 Varek Raith
Too many in this country treat guns like toys.
It disturbs me.
Here are my three policy requirements for supporting a pro-gun position:
1) Mandatory gun safety course - you must have the certificate to buy a gun
2) Community-appointed licensing board that determines what kind of guns can be sold
3) All guns must be pink, with sparkly detailing and the words "I'm a big girl now" emblazoned on the barrel
| 446 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:22:29am |
re: #440 Cannadian Club Akbar
[Video]
dumb-as-hell move that only shows how serious owning/using a firearm is.
One instructor to us that there are two kinds of gun owners. Those that have experienced an accidental discharge and those that will. Then proceeded with:
Always point the gun in a safe direction.
Before handing a firearm, determine what is a safe direction . .
| 447 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:22:56am |
re: #445 iossarian
Here are my three policy requirements for supporting a pro-gun position:
1) Mandatory gun safety course - you must have the certificate to buy a gun
2) Community-appointed licensing board that determines what kind of guns can be sold
3) All guns must be pink, with sparkly detailing and the words "I'm a big girl now" emblazoned on the barrel
| 448 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:23:19am |
re: #437 iossarian
This times a million. I would have a much smaller problem with the second amendment if there was a hardcore gun safety education program that was a general requirement before buying a weapon.
My Junior High School (now called Middle School) had a hunter safety classes that taught mostly how to be safe around firearms. You have to have it for a hunting license in Wisconsin. Very nearly all the boys and a high percentage of the girls took the elective course.
It would not bother me to see it made a requirement in 6th grade.
| 449 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:23:26am |
re: #443 Rightwingconspirator
Did you know there is one in California for handguns?
I did not. Does the NRA support or oppose this, in general? (I know they provide courses, but do they support making them mandatory?)
| 450 |
Varek Raith Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:23:32am |
This is why I don't like the NRA.
LAPIERRE: They’ll say gun owners — they’ll say they left them alone…In public, the president will remind us that he’s put off calls from his party to renew the old Clinton ban, that he hasn’t pushed for new gun control laws…The president will offer the Second Amendment lip service and hit the campaign trail saying he’s actually been good for the Second Amendment. But it’s a big fat stinking lie!…It’s all part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment in our country…Before the president was even sworn into office, they met and they hatched a conspiracy of public deception to try to guarantee his re-election in 2012.
He's fucking crazy.
| 451 |
Varek Raith Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:24:01am |
| 452 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:24:08am |
| 453 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:24:55am |
re: #448 wlewisiii
My Junior High School (now called Middle School) had a hunter safety classes that taught mostly how to be safe around firearms. You have to have it for a hunting license in Wisconsin. Very nearly all the boys and a high percentage of the girls took the elective course.
It would not bother me to see it made a requirement in 6th grade.
They did those classes in IN. I'm not sure they still do those types of classes. They used to make crossbows in shop class too, I doubt they still do.
| 454 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:25:18am |
re: #448 wlewisiii
My Junior High School (now called Middle School) had a hunter safety classes that taught mostly how to be safe around firearms. You have to have it for a hunting license in Wisconsin. Very nearly all the boys and a high percentage of the girls took the elective course.
It would not bother me to see it made a requirement in 6th grade.
Me either.
I think fear of firearms creates more hard. When talking with friends, I always ask them if they would submit to a rape if someone pointed a starter pistol at them. Many give me a blank stare.
| 455 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:25:20am |
Alrighty. I gotta get to my shovel ready job. See ya'll tonight.:)
| 456 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:25:49am |
re: #448 wlewisiii
My Junior High School (now called Middle School) had a hunter safety classes that taught mostly how to be safe around firearms. You have to have it for a hunting license in Wisconsin. Very nearly all the boys and a high percentage of the girls took the elective course.
It would not bother me to see it made a requirement in 6th grade.
I don't know about "requirement" because some people don't want their kids around guns full stop - obviously there's a downside (what if your kid comes across a gun one day) but I think that's a choice you should be allowed to make.
Just a requirement to buy a gun, the same way you pass a test to drive a car.
| 457 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:27:54am |
re: #445 iossarian
Here are my three policy requirements for supporting a pro-gun position:
1) Mandatory gun safety course - you must have the certificate to buy a gun
2) Community-appointed licensing board that determines what kind of guns can be sold
3) All guns must be pink, with sparkly detailing and the words "I'm a big girl now" emblazoned on the barrel
I get what you mean. Get the ego out of it. You should see what a safety PITA I am at the range when I'm the instructor. Right down to the correct way to insert the foam ear protection. And I really prefer everyone have the outer ear protection that includes noise cancelling and a voice amplifier. That way everyone hears my words easily despite a 25db cut in hearing.
| 458 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:28:04am |
re: #450 Varek Raith
This is why I don't like the NRA.
He's fucking crazy.
I agree completely. I do not belong to the NRA or give them any money. I would like to have an organization that I thought serious about all rights but right now I don't know of one. NRA is a bunch of granola and the ACLU get's faint at the sight of a firearm :(
| 459 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:28:23am |
re: #456 iossarian
I don't know about "requirement" because some people don't want their kids around guns full stop - obviously there's a downside (what if your kid comes across a gun one day) but I think that's a choice you should be allowed to make.
Just a requirement to buy a gun, the same way you pass a test to drive a car.
Hubby and I found the Eddie Eagle series from the NRA to be useful and frankly, a no brainer. Since there are firearms in the house, it was important to find some way to educate our then young child about them to prevent accidents from curiosity.
We teach our kids about drugs, sex and violence, but when it comes to teaching basic gun safety --like, if you find a gun, leave it the fuck alone -- isn't a priority for the general public, it seems.
| 460 |
Varek Raith Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:29:22am |
re: #458 wlewisiii
I agree completely. I do not belong to the NRA or give them any money. I would like to have an organization that I thought serious about all rights but right now I don't know of one. NRA is a bunch of granola and the ACLU get's faint at the sight of a firearm :(
Seriously.
What a world.
Oy.
| 461 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:29:52am |
re: #458 wlewisiii
I agree completely. I do not belong to the NRA or give them any money. I would like to have an organization that I thought serious about all rights but right now I don't know of one. NRA is a bunch of granola and the ACLU get's faint at the sight of a firearm :(
Second Amendment Foundation seems to focus on legal issues instead of political.
I think the local/state organizations are important too
| 462 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:30:03am |
re: #456 iossarian
I don't know about "requirement" because some people don't want their kids around guns full stop - obviously there's a downside (what if your kid comes across a gun one day) but I think that's a choice you should be allowed to make.
Just a requirement to buy a gun, the same way you pass a test to drive a car.
Some people don't want their kids taught sex ed either. Just about as foolish in both cases IMHO.
| 463 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:31:00am |
re: #449 iossarian
California screwed the NRA on this. The deal was NRA helped them work up a good test. Then California was supposed to recognize NRA instructor credentials. They reneged of course, the whole thing (not just the safety course but many, many other regulations in totality) is actually designed to outright discourage gun sales, ownership and access.
| 464 |
Gus Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:31:30am |
Man. You guys are bumming me out. re: #450 Varek Raith
This is why I don't like the NRA.
He's fucking crazy.
Time for the NRA to consider a replacement. Nah, that will never happen. This kind of talk leads to new memberships and renewals. In any event. That's serious trash talk coming out of this man.
| 465 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:31:44am |
| 466 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:33:01am |
re: #463 Rightwingconspirator
California screwed the NRA on this. The deal was NRA helped them work up a good test. Then California was supposed to recognize NRA instructor credentials. They reneged of course, the whole thing (not just the safety course but many, many other regulations in totality) is actually designed to outright discourage gun sales, ownership and access.
#7 Least Gun Sales: California
[Link: www.mainstreet.com...]
| 467 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:33:03am |
| 468 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:34:10am |
re: #464 Gus 802
Man. You guys are bumming me out.
Time for the NRA to consider a replacement. Nah, that will never happen. This kind of talk leads to new memberships and renewals. In any event. That's serious trash talk coming out of this man.
The propaganda arm of the NRA. I've complained about it before to the NRA, but like any other large organization, they have their formula and are sticking to it.
Sad, because there are very good aspects of the NRA that don't get past the propaganda to the general public.
| 469 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:34:40am |
re: #464 Gus 802
Man. You guys are bumming me out.
Time for the NRA to consider a replacement. Nah, that will never happen. This kind of talk leads to new memberships and renewals. In any event. That's serious trash talk coming out of this man.
Makes anything Obama (or the administration) does a no-win situation. Since the NRA is apparently convinced the conspiracy is there to take away guns no action, some action, full action are all considered part of that plot.
Sheesh. Pretty good illustration of single issue fanaticism and how it destroys any chance for peaceful change or useful discourse.
| 470 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:36:21am |
re: #462 wlewisiii
Some people don't want their kids taught sex ed either. Just about as foolish in both cases IMHO.
This is a good point. Maybe I could be persuaded that making the course a general requirement was a good thing. You could even throw in some other stuff like power tool safety, make it less of a "gun" thing and more of a "stuff that can hurt you if you dick around with it" thing.
re: #463 Rightwingconspirator
California screwed the NRA on this. The deal was NRA helped them work up a good test. Then California was supposed to recognize NRA instructor credentials. They reneged of course, the whole thing (not just the safety course but many, many other regulations in totality) is actually designed to outright discourage gun sales, ownership and access.
Of course, a proponent would probably say that the whole thing "is actually designed to promote gun safety". Hopefully the CA voters can figure out which version is closer to the truth.
| 471 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:37:16am |
re: #466 RogueOne
#7 Least Gun Sales: California
[Link: www.mainstreet.com...]
Kentucky #1, LOL
Gun sales does not necessarily correspond to Gun Ownership.
| 472 |
Gus Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:37:48am |
Oops. The "Man. You guys are bumming me out..." part was about those actors that died because of blank accidents.
| 473 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:39:01am |
re: #472 Gus 802
Oops. The "Man. You guys are bumming me out..." part was about those actors that died because of blank accidents.
I was going to say, this is probably one of the most productive and even-keeled "political" discussions we've had on here for a long time!
| 474 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:39:07am |
re: #472 Gus 802
Oops. The "Man. You guys are bumming me out..." part was about those actors that died because of blank accidents.
Honestly, Dear Ole' Dad drummed the safety aspect into my head so much, I couldn't imagine being anywhere and TRUSTING that the gun was safe enough to point at myself and pull the trigger. I'd have to check it myself, each time.
Even then, I don't know . . .
| 475 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:39:49am |
re: #470 iossarian
This is a good point. Maybe I could be persuaded that making the course a general requirement was a good thing. You could even throw in some other stuff like power tool safety, make it less of a "gun" thing and more of a "stuff that can hurt you if you dick around with it" thing.
re: #463 Rightwingconspirator
Of course, a proponent would probably say that the whole thing "is actually designed to promote gun safety". Hopefully the CA voters can figure out which version is closer to the truth.
Power-tool safety is an EXCELLENT idea.
| 476 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:40:37am |
All this gun talk makes me remember that I need to go order some Buffalo Bore 158 gr LSWCHP +P for my .38's.
| 477 |
Varek Raith Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:40:40am |
re: #472 Gus 802
Oops. The "Man. You guys are bumming me out..." part was about those actors that died because of blank accidents.
Here, some plane pr0n.
Image: north-american-p-51-mustang-1.jpg
| 478 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:42:21am |
re: #470 iossarian
The voters (as we see elsewhere) rarely dig that deep. For an example California has its own gun manufacturer safety protocol. First-Sends lots of money and a gun for destructive testing. Even guns that have been on the market and approved designs by military and law officials. Likr the Amith & Wesson revolver or the famous Colt 1911 .45
Then if you switch it to a wooden grip from plastic start all over. Different finish like chrome? Send another bunch of money and another gun they will destroy. New front or rear sight? Ditto. This is way beyond safety. It's a deliberate effort to discourage manufacturers from selling here.
| 479 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:42:33am |
re: #470 iossarian
This is a good point. Maybe I could be persuaded that making the course a general requirement was a good thing. You could even throw in some other stuff like power tool safety, make it less of a "gun" thing and more of a "stuff that can hurt you if you dick around with it" thing.
This is a great way to look at it. I should talk to my assembly critter about this idea.
| 481 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:43:17am |
I hate mornings. Takes me forever to wake-up, always has.
It's rainy and dreary outside. I just want to curl up with a puppy and go back to sleep. Even Monster Puppy is snoring right now.
| 482 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:45:42am |
re: #463 Rightwingconspirator
California screwed the NRA on this. The deal was NRA helped them work up a good test. Then California was supposed to recognize NRA instructor credentials. They reneged of course, the whole thing (not just the safety course but many, many other regulations in totality) is actually designed to outright discourage gun sales, ownership and access.
To the law-abiding and thoughtful.
| 483 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:46:23am |
Iossarian-
Quiz-What safety mascot is officially banned from LAUSD schools? Not smokey the bear.
Eddie Eagle.
Image: ee03video.jpg
One of the best gun safety programs for children anywhere. Banned.
| 484 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:47:13am |
re: #483 Rightwingconspirator
Quiz-What safety mascot is officially banned from LAUSD schools? No smokey the bear.
Eddie Eagle.
Image: ee03video.jpgOne of the best gun safety programs for children anywhere. Banned.
The Only gun-safety program that I found when my kid was little.
Let's let the gangs teach 'em. . . . .
| 486 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:49:39am |
| 487 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:50:12am |
re: #472 Gus 802
Oops. The "Man. You guys are bumming me out..." part was about those actors that died because of blank accidents.
Well, if I can offer a story that might perk you up:
I looked up a WWII comrade of my friend Charles and the guy is 92 but sharper than a tack made of obsidian he's a wiry little guy who could still kick my ass. He's got a rent-controlled apartment and recently bested his shitty Saudi (no kidding) landlord in a court case and so while he's just got a tiny little income he's done good. And this guy showed me the bullets he'd taken: One through the arm where he'd been out of action for two weeks and another through the thigh from behind one of our own guys had shot him by accident that just kept him out for a week and shrapnel in his ribs from where he'd clubbed away a grenade that was near him and he'd gotten it far enough from himself (and, he says, totally incidentally the rest of his squad) to just get torn up a little from it and showed me the crease around his head were a bullet just skidded across his skull.
And he's a cancer survivor and got hit by a car and his house caught on fire once.
Unkillable little bastard. He told me Charles had 'dropped him off' at Omaha beach twice-- the first time Charles had rescued him out of deep water where his cowardly asshole captain had dropped him the first time because he was afraid of British mines-- and he'd fought his way all the way into Germany and then when he got out into Britain he'd run into Charles in a bar they had a drinking contest that wound up with both of them on stage somewhere with about a hundred chorus girls all kick-dancing and in the next week he slept with five of them.
Then he went back home and opened up a flower shop.
| 489 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:52:21am |
Wallace Kuralt's era of sterilization
[Link: www.charlotteobserver.com...]
Compassionate. Visionary. A champion of women and the poor.
That's the reputation that Wallace Kuralt built as Mecklenburg County's welfare director from 1945 to 1972. Today, the building where Charlotte's poor come for help bears his name - a name made even more prominent when his newscaster son, Charles Kuralt, rose to fame
But as architect of Mecklenburg's program of eugenic sterilization - state-ordered surgery to stop the poor and disabled from bearing children - Kuralt helped write one of the most shameful chapters of North Carolina history.
The Charlotte Observer has obtained records sealed by the state that tell the stories of 403 Mecklenburg residents ordered sterilized by the N.C. Eugenics Board at the behest of Kuralt's welfare department.
It's a number that dwarfs the total from any other county, in a state that ran one of the nation's most active efforts to sterilize the mentally ill, mentally retarded and epileptic.
Sounds a bit like Margaret Sanger.
| 490 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:53:36am |
re: #487 Obdicut
Obdi, I've been meaning to ask - do you know of a military historian (and I'm using the latter word loosely here) Ian Baxter?
| 491 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:53:57am |
re: #487 Obdicut
If nobody writes that biography it's a screaming crying shame.
| 492 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:54:02am |
| 493 |
Gus Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:55:39am |
re: #492 Obdicut
Work is hard and sometimes you need a nap.
Always. I got up early to finish something this morning. Promised it by noon. It isn't much and I'll get to it eventually here.
| 494 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:55:45am |
re: #491 Rightwingconspirator
I guess I could take notes the next time. I always feel a bit weird about stuff like that, because this guy has four kids and ten grandkids, so I'd think it'd be their right/duty to do so.
He, like Charles, doesn't think his experiences are really worth telling except as a jokey conversation. He was more interested in me explaining the internet to him.
All of it.
| 495 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:56:44am |
re: #491 Rightwingconspirator
If nobody writes that biography it's a screaming crying shame.
Bio, hell, I want to see the movie. Get Hanks and Spielberg on board to do it right.
| 496 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:56:56am |
re: #489 RogueOne
Please don't go dissing Margaret Sanger.
Eugenics wasn't her work. Birth Control was. Eugenics was an issue that seemed to coincide with her work at the time and the proponents were some of the very few who would endorse her work.
We owe a lot to Margarat Sanger, at least, I do as a woman.
| 497 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:57:16am |
re: #490 Sergey Romanov
Nope. I'm not really that into pictoral stuff and a quick google of him shows that's what he mainly does.
Is he a shoddy historian?
And have you read "A War To Be Won"?
| 498 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:58:34am |
re: #497 Obdicut
Nope. I'm not really that into pictoral stuff and a quick google of him shows that's what he mainly does.
Is he a shoddy historian?
And have you read "A War To Be Won"?
Oh, okay. Just shooting in the dark here. I want to contact him somehow to ascertain one thing.
No, haven't read that book.
| 499 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 6:59:16am |
re: #478 Rightwingconspirator
Then if you switch it to a wooden grip from plastic start all over. Different finish like chrome? Send another bunch of money and another gun they will destroy. New front or rear sight? Ditto. This is way beyond safety. It's a deliberate effort to discourage manufacturers from selling here.
Why would you need to put a chrome finish on a gun, other than in a marketing effort?
This goes back to my pink gun requirement: guns are dangerous items that are designed to carry out a highly specific role. There is absolutely no need for them to look "cool".
If the outcome of the CA requirements is that gun manufacturers have to come up with a safe, effective, and "boring" design that works as it is intended, that is a feature, not a bug, in my view.
But, I will say that I am prepared to let the good people of California decide.
| 500 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:00:22am |
re: #498 Sergey Romanov
I'd recommend it, not in terms of historical accuracy (though I didn't notice any flaws) but because of what a good job they do of showing the futility and waste of the war, the price that was paid by so many men and women, civilian and military, and how flawed and uncertain the intelligence situation always was. It's my favorite single-volume work of the war though I think I remember someone here really disliking it in some way.
| 501 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:01:00am |
Have to start my day as well, *yawn*.
Have a great day all!
| 502 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:01:11am |
Just to share an IT funny thing that happened. At work I have this dual os tower, XP & win7. Anyway setup has been tedious.
Yesterday I found the machine seemed to need psychological therapy. I got this ongoing error code from the wireless- "Seeking Validation"
Then I turned off the "ieee whatever" verification and all was well.
| 504 |
Political Atheist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:03:03am |
re: #499 iossarian
If you are near seawater, like say living near Marina Del Rey, you want chrome. Or stainless steel.
| 505 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:09:27am |
re: #496 ggt
Please don't go dissing Margaret Sanger.
Eugenics wasn't her work. Birth Control was. Eugenics was an issue that seemed to coincide with her work at the time and the proponents were some of the very few who would endorse her work.
We owe a lot to Margarat Sanger, at least, I do as a woman.
I don't believe in sugar-coating the failings of our idols. She may have been a wonderful person with nothing but the best intentions but...
[Link: www.nyu.edu...]
Take the oft quoted 1931 "My Way to Peace," in which Sanger recommends that the government:
. . . keep the doors of Immigration closed to the entrance of certain aliens whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race, such as feeble-minded, idiots, morons, insane, syphiletic, epileptic, criminal, professional prostitutes, and others in this class . . . apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring. (Jan. 17, 1932 [LCM 130:198].)
These are harsh words intended to appeal not only to eugenicists, but social and health workers who came in contact with all manner of sickness and suffering. Sanger was not referring to short stature or pattern balding when she used the phrase "objectionable traits," rather she was talking about diseases such as syphilis that were ravaging especially the poor. Unfortunately, she did sometimes apply the term to moral as well as mental defects, though never as virulently as others in the eugenics community.
she was definitely involved in a very dark period in our history, the eugenics movement.
| 506 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:11:31am |
re: #504 Rightwingconspirator
If you are near seawater, like say living near Marina Del Rey, you want chrome. Or stainless steel.
I always wondered if Nickel plate was useful that way. I tend to prefer blued steel (my Model 10 is perfection) though I've had stainless ones too.
| 507 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:11:44am |
Batshit insane moonbat over at Haaretz claims "Baruch Goldstein was an emissary of the Chabad Rebbe." [This like claiming Anders Brevik was an agent of the Vatican or something]
Why oh why did I even look at the Haaretz "opinion" section? There is enough moonbattery on the news pages, the "opinion" section is only for frothing nutbags who are too fucking crazy to go into the news section.
| 508 |
iossarian Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:13:07am |
re: #504 Rightwingconspirator
If you are near seawater, like say living near Marina Del Rey, you want chrome. Or stainless steel.
True, but, I don't see that there has to be a huge range of available options on guns. So the manufacturer comes up with a basic model that fits the "self defense" mode of utilization (which is what guns are for), derives a few variations, gets them through the vetting process, and voila! guns for sale.
I mean, the amount of testing cars have to go through is considerable. And, incidentally, the auto companies complain pretty vociferously about the extra clean air requirements that California has. I'm always reluctant to consider arguments made by corporations against regulation of the goods they sell.
| 509 |
RogueOne Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:14:31am |
Time for me to get going. Enjoy the rest of the day people!
| 511 |
Lidane Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:41:49am |
More of this please:
Watching GOP debates has now become a kind of abdominal contraction drinking game, with cringes replacing shots at each seemingly inevitable moment when members of the audience embarrass their candidates with some outburst or another.
And now Democrats are trying to turn each moment into a social.
The Republican party has a presidential debate audience problem, and the Obama team are increasingly using it to paint their presidential candidates into a corner. It’s a rare direct engagement between the President and the slew of Republicans vying for the chance to challenge him — and the kind of thing that Democrats hope could pump up what many say is a lackluster base.
In short, the cheering loonies in Republican debate crowds are playing right into the Democrats’ hands, and Obama and company are going to play the hands dealt them.
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
| 512 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:44:55am |
*nailed it*
I managed to miss this the other night - Jon Stewart asks the GOP base to meet him at camera 3 and lets them know it's not the candidates who are the problem.
| 513 |
Four More Tears Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:50:57am |
Anyone else reading the live blog of this Amazon conference? They are going to kick ass this year.
| 514 |
Four More Tears Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:58:04am |
re: #513 JasonA
Anyone else reading the live blog of this Amazon conference? They are going to kick ass this year.
I'll take that silence as a no.
To recap: $79 Kindle. $99 Kindle Touch. $149 Kindle Touch with 3G. $199 Kindle Fire (7" color tablet, very much like the Playbook but with a camera or mic).
| 515 |
Eventual Carrion Wed, Sep 28, 2011 7:58:58am |
re: #112 albusteve
and calling Buckley a Nazi is what exactly?...it was what it was and maybe you should start apologizing for Vidal's behavior...what's fair is fair
Could be exactly what he was ("Crypto" as in buried so as not to be outwardly seen). In the vein of Prescott Bush and others of that ilk who supported the Nazi regime (wink wink, nudge nudge).
| 516 |
Four More Tears Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:00:43am |
re: #514 JasonA
| 517 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:03:00am |
re: #505 RogueOne
I don't believe in sugar-coating the failings of our idols. She may have been a wonderful person with nothing but the best intentions but...
[Link: www.nyu.edu...]
she was definitely involved in a very dark period in our history, the eugenics movement.
I'm coming in late to this discussion. So I'm just going to unload my standard Sanger rant.
1. The bitch isn't my idol. (Seriously, I fucking hate Margaret Sanger, but I understand how important her work was, and exactly why it has become so necessary to a large swathe of social conservatives to demonize her.) She was not 'a wonderful person with the best of intentions'. She did, however, do important shit.
2. Eugenics received enthusiastic support from many, many people whose reputations have not suffered from it. It was the junk science of its day, and it was popular as all hell. I don't hear people crying about the Supreme Court as being tainted by their support for it, only Planned Parenthood.
4. That quote above? Absolutely fucking par for the course.
5. Sanger's work and support was accepted by sane leaders of the black community she is now accused of trying to commit genocide upon, because, it turns out, they thought that women being able to control the size of their families might prove sort of useful.
6. The attacks on her these days (as opposed to rational academic critiques) come from the same source they've always come from: people who hate her for giving women reproductive options.
| 518 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:06:02am |
| 519 |
Four More Tears Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:07:12am |
| 520 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:07:37am |
re: #505 RogueOne
I don't believe in sugar-coating the failings of our idols. She may have been a wonderful person with nothing but the best intentions but...
How u figure?
Margaret Sanger was one of a buncha bigots. That's a historical fact, but it's not like she was alone in it. The entire country was a buncha bigots.
| 521 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:10:30am |
re: #517 SanFranciscoZionist
5. Sanger's work and support was accepted by sane leaders of the black community she is now accused of trying to commit genocide upon, because, it turns out, they thought that women being able to control the size of their families might prove sort of useful.
I'm just sick of the trotting out/waving around of "black people" by Confederate flag waving conservatives. They could give a damn about our families then, and still think we're apes and orangutans.
Who they are pandering to besides themselves, I'll never know.
| 522 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:15:29am |
re: #521 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I'm just sick of the trotting out/waving around of "black people" by Confederate flag waving conservatives. They could give a damn about our families then, and still think we're apes and orangutans.
Who they are pandering to besides themselves, I'll never know.
It's the ongoing war for "Black votes".
The democrats want them to vote their economic interests and the GOP want them to vote the social interests - AfricanAmerican votes helped knock down prop-8 after all and trend conservataive particularly on gay rights and abortion in the older segments.
Thankfully the voting conciousness knows the current GOP are the antecedents of the Dixiecrats and that the Democrats are the Party of Lincoln.
| 523 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:18:53am |
re: #521 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I'm just sick of the trotting out/waving around of "black people" by Confederate flag waving conservatives. They could give a damn about our families then, and still think we're apes and orangutans.
Who they are pandering to besides themselves, I'll never know.
Themselves is good enough for them. The sole point they want to make is "Planned Parenthood was founded by a raaaaaacist."
| 524 |
Four More Tears Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:21:49am |
Amazon Silk web browser:
| 525 |
Eventual Carrion Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:23:43am |
re: #121 simoom
Rep. Bachmann warns of the coming 2nd Cuban Missile Crisis:
[Link: thehill.com...]“Why would you normalize trading with a country that sponsors terror?,” Bachmann said
Like Saudi Arabia?
| 526 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:27:52am |
re: #522 wozzablog
It's the ongoing war for "Black votes".
The democrats want them to vote their economic interests and the GOP want them to vote the social interests - AfricanAmerican votes helped knock down prop-8 after all and trend conservataive particularly on gay rights and abortion in the older segments.Thankfully the voting conciousness knows the current GOP are the antecedents of the Dixiecrats and that the Democrats are the Party of Lincoln.
I don't think it's actually about votes at all. The GOP must realize on some level that they're simply going to not get much of the black vote in the foreseeable future. They've pitched their tent on faith and social conservatism for decades, and the black voter has barely noticed they're there.
As for Prop 8, that's very much in doubt, at least as more than one factor in an avalanche of 'em.
| 527 |
Lidane Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:32:21am |
re: #525 RayFerd
Like Saudi Arabia?
Seriously.
The cognitive dissonance that woman lives with is frightening. I don't know how she gets through the day.
| 528 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:35:35am |
re: #522 wozzablog
It's the ongoing war for "Black votes".
I don't think so.
We are among the most coveted voting bloc in the country, for sure, but that is only due to numbers.
Much more important is the haranguing and harassment aspect.
AfricanAmerican votes helped knock down prop-8 after all
This is a myth.
Not a lot of African Americans in the locales and Christian denominations that were overwhelmingly pro Prop 8. Personally, I'm sick of the scapegoating.
| 529 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:37:00am |
re: #523 SanFranciscoZionist
Themselves is good enough for them. The sole point they want to make is "Planned Parenthood was founded by a raaacist."
We are their numero uno anxiety, because they know their privileges over us are completely unearned, and the result of extreme violence.
The cognitive dissonance about who is an who is not a raaa aaa cist is totally hilarious.
| 530 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:37:09am |
re: #526 SanFranciscoZionist
The GOP has attempted a lot of misguided "out reach" programs in the African American community along the lines of abortion and creeping gay rights.
There is a massive sense of injustice in the GOP that they can't con the working class black voters into voting against the democrats on Social grounds.
70% of black californians who voted on prop-8 voted against gay marriage.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 531 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:40:44am |
Wow. I'm watching American Pickers and just got a history-shivers moment.
They're in a house which used to be an Underground Railroad station and there's a message left by one of the runaway slaves to other slaves who'd go along this path. This slave had made his way to the next underground railroad house and then doubled back so he could leave this message for the other slaves to follow.
It goes by too fast but it starts with,
"Hey brother..."
Imagine that, imagine being that runaway, brave enough to double back, because we wanted to help out his fellow freedom-seekers.
| 532 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:41:06am |
re: #530 wozzablog
70% of black californians who voted on prop-8 voted against gay marriage.
Myth debunked, by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.
New study shows party, ideology, frequency of religious service attendance and age drove vote on Prop. 8
This is really just common sense.
| 533 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:42:35am |
re: #531 Obdicut
Imagine that, imagine being that runaway, brave enough to double back, because we wanted to help out his fellow freedom-seekers.
That's why the bigots get so nervous and resentful when they see us saying hello to each other on the street.
| 534 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:43:26am |
re: #270 sattv4u2
What a terrible precedent!
It could lead to
DMV workers smiling at the counter as they renew your registration
Dept. of Human Service workers being {gasp} helpful!!
State tax agents helping fix an error in your return!!OH NOES!!!
Do you really think an enforced, candy coated phone greeting will somehow lead to happier, more helpful workers? What a simplistic notion, most people hate being ordered to act fake and repeat some rote, hackneyed, insincere bullshit line over and over again.
| 535 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:44:42am |
re: #534 goddamnedfrank
Do you really think an enforced, candy coated phone greeting will somehow lead to happier, more helpful workers? What a simplistic notion, most people hate being ordered to act fake and repeat some rote, hackneyed, insincere bullshit line over and over again.
Reminds me of that scene in "The Little Drummer Boy" where they painted the smile on him.
| 536 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:44:50am |
re: #534 goddamnedfrank
People feel happier when they see people saying words with "K" and "Q" in them.
So I think the DMV workers should say,
"Hello, welcome to the DMV, quack quack quack!"
It'll work. It's science.
| 537 |
makeitstop Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:50:08am |
Dunno if this was posted here yet - for all you 'My Drunk Kitchen' fans:
Turns out Hannah can sing! Dancing, not so much...
| 538 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:51:35am |
re: #478 Rightwingconspirator
The voters (as we see elsewhere) rarely dig that deep. For an example California has its own gun manufacturer safety protocol. First-Sends lots of money and a gun for destructive testing. Even guns that have been on the market and approved designs by military and law officials. Likr the Amith & Wesson revolver or the famous Colt 1911 .45
Then if you switch it to a wooden grip from plastic start all over. Different finish like chrome? Send another bunch of money and another gun they will destroy. New front or rear sight? Ditto. This is way beyond safety. It's a deliberate effort to discourage manufacturers from selling here.
Three guns of each model are sent for testing to the certified lab, not one and enough ammunition to conduct the test. The thing that kills me about this law and tells me it has nothing to do with safety is that cops are exempt, they're allowed to purchase handguns that fail the drop test.
| 539 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:53:08am |
re: #530 wozzablog
The GOP has attempted a lot of misguided "out reach" programs in the African American community along the lines of abortion and creeping gay rights.
There is a massive sense of injustice in the GOP that they can't con the working class black voters into voting against the democrats on Social grounds.
70% of black californians who voted on prop-8 voted against gay marriage.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
Yes, but 90+% voted for Barack Obama at the same time, and those voters who voted for 8 did not vote that way because of GOP influence.
We could argue the numbers about 8 until the cows come home--it's been done a few times. The key issue is that while the black vote may trend socially conservative on one or two issues...actually, this is the only one that occurs to me right now...it goes to the Democratic candidates.
I guess I just can't believe that it hasn't occurred to the GOP by now that the tactics they have been using are getting them exactly nowhere.
(And basically, with 8, my feeling is this: I level the blame at exactly two parties: the church groups who came in from out of state with massive amounts of money to subvert the will of the people of California, and the pro-marriage groups that didn't get their act together to respond effectively. Actual California voters can vote for what the hell they want.)
| 540 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:53:13am |
re: #532 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Myth debunked, by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.
This is really just common sense.
I hadn't seen the mid-50's polling numbers. But I am not saying that it was exclusively black voters responsible for prop-8, just trying to highlight that as a reason the GOP are annoyed they aren't getting more socially conservative voters across the spectrum.
There were OF COURSE many many factors, including lots of out of state money and of course church going is the major factor, but church going knows no race.
| 541 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:54:26am |
re: #539 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm not saying it was GOP influence, just that aspects of the Black community trend socially conservative and that the GOP are pisse dthey don't get more of that pie than the 10%.
| 542 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:58:44am |
re: #541 wozzablog
I'm not saying it was GOP influence, just that aspects of the Black community trend socially conservative and that the GOP are pisse dthey don't get more of that pie than the 10%.
I can see their frustration, yeah. But they basically only want the black vote if it's free to them--if they wanted it, they'd go after it with something better and more sophisticated than they've done.
| 543 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Sep 28, 2011 8:59:35am |
re: #537 makeitstop
Dunno if this was posted here yet - for all you 'My Drunk Kitchen' fans:
[Video]Turns out Hannah can sing! Dancing, not so much...
I had that song stuck in my head last night. Pretty good. The cheese bedroom scene still cracks me up.
| 544 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:03:01am |
re: #540 wozzablog
I hadn't seen the mid-50's polling numbers. But I am not saying that it was exclusively black voters responsible for prop-8, just trying to highlight that as a reason the GOP are annoyed they aren't getting more socially conservative voters across the spectrum.
There were OF COURSE many many factors, including lots of out of state money and of course church going is the major factor, but church going knows no race.
In this case, it matters very much. Oh, and I know you're not saying we were exclusively responsible for Prop 8.
The LDS bankrolled the measure, and is notorious for it's anti-Black history; there still aren't that many African Americans in it. Same for Catholicism vis-a-vis our own traditional denominations, which were overwhelmingly pro Prop 8.
There needs to be a better understanding of Black denominations and Prop 8, on which I've seen no studies. Those are the backbone of this "Black Vote" people keep talking about. It's impossible to talk about our voting patterns and history without it. But it never comes up in the Prop 8 discussion.
| 545 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:03:30am |
re: #542 SanFranciscoZionist
I can see their frustration, yeah. But they basically only want the black vote if it's free to them--if they wanted it, they'd go after it with something better and more sophisticated than they've done.
I never said they weren't politically tone deaf :p
| 546 |
Obdicut Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:03:47am |
Hey SFZ, how much free time do you have at the moment?
| 547 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:05:09am |
re: #541 wozzablog
I'm not saying it was GOP influence, just that aspects of the Black community trend socially conservative and that the GOP are pisse dthey don't get more of that pie than the 10%.
They don't even get that much.
Look, we're talking about entitled bigots, here. Any time ANY Black individual or group doesn't relegate ourselves to their narrow social confines they find an excuse to go into conniptions.
| 548 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:06:13am |
re: #544 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
In this case, it matters very much. Oh, and I know you're not saying we were exclusively responsible for Prop 8.
The LDS bankrolled the measure, and is notorious for it's anti-Black history; there still aren't that many African Americans in it. Same for Catholicism vis-a-vis our own traditional denominations, which were overwhelmingly pro Prop 8.
There needs to be a better understanding of Black denominations and Prop 8, on which I've seen no studies. Those are the backbone of this "Black Vote" people keep talking about. It's impossible to talk about our voting patterns and history without it. But it never comes up in the Prop 8 discussion.
Yes the history counts in a meta-context.
But............on my point..........
Christians of all races and denominations go to churches. They tend to vote conservative values in ballot measures.
| 549 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:06:32am |
re: #544 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
In this case, it matters very much. Oh, and I know you're not saying we were exclusively responsible for Prop 8.
The LDS bankrolled the measure, and is notorious for it's anti-Black history; there still aren't that many African Americans in it. Same for Catholicism vis-a-vis our own traditional denominations, which were overwhelmingly pro Prop 8.
Rewrite:
The LDS bankrolled the measure, and is notorious for it's anti-Black history; there still aren't that many African Americans in it. Same for Catholicism, overwhelmingly pro Prop 8, vis-a-vis our own traditional denominations.
| 550 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:12:13am |
re: #549 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Rewrite:
The LDS bankrolled the measure, and is notorious for it's anti-Black history; there still aren't that many African Americans in it. Same for Catholicism, overwhelmingly pro Prop 8, vis-a-vis our own traditional denominations.
A majority of churches don't tend to like teh gayze getting their societal rights on. Opposition to gay marriage cuts across racial lines.
And I am aware of the history of the LDS and the catholic churches.
| 551 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:14:05am |
| 552 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:16:35am |
re: #546 Obdicut
Hey SFZ, how much free time do you have at the moment?
Right this second? None. I'm about to go out the door, get my hair done, and go to my folks to start cooking for Rosh Hashanah.
| 553 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:17:26am |
re: #548 wozzablog
Yes the history counts in a meta-context.
But...on my point...
Christians of all races and denominations go to churches. They tend to vote conservative values in ballot measures.
Again, this is a misunderstanding, especially of Black denominations.
It would be interesting if someone had done a survey of the 3,000 Christian denominations regarding their 2008 vote, including Prop 8.
For example: I've seen no studies on this, but I can guarantee you Metropolitan Community Church and Unity Fellowship churchgoers voted overwhelmingly against Prop 8.
Probably the same for United Church of Christ, which has been doing same sex ordination since the 70s, and marriages since the 90s. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - their vote I would surmise [again with just what I know about them and no Prop 8 statistics] trended 70-30 against Prop 8. Presbyterians (PCUSA - the largest Presbyterian body) just implemented measures towards gay ordination two months ago. In 2008, I would not be surprised if PCUSA members went something like 60-40 against Prop 8.
I chose those denominations to say that not all churches vote socially conservative. Question would be in this case, just how did the Black denominations vote, especially given that civil rights is a social issue?
Especially when one considers that the measure barely passed, anyway, with a much smaller "for" number than just 8 years prior in the Prop 22 vote. I know a 78 year old classic "Black Church Lady" who voted against it because she recognized it for the anti-civil rights measure it was. Most people talking about this don't know any Black Californian voters, at all.
| 554 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:22:11am |
re: #553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Again, this is a misunderstanding, especially of Black denominations.
It would be interesting if someone had done a survey of the 3,000 Christian denominations regarding their 2008 vote, including Prop 8.
For example: I've seen no studies on this, but I can guarantee you Metropolitan Community Church and Unity Fellowship churchgoers voted overwhelmingly against Prop 8.
Probably the same for United Church of Christ, which has been doing same sex ordination since the 70s, and marriages since the 90s. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - their vote I would surmise [again with just what I know about them and no Prop 8 statistics] trended 70-30 against Prop 8. Presbyterians (PCUSA - the largest Presbyterian body) just implemented measures towards gay ordination two months ago. In 2008, I would not be surprised if PCUSA members went something like 60-40 against Prop 8.
I chose those denominations to say that not all churches vote socially conservative. Question would be in this case, just how did the Black denominations vote, especially given that civil rights is a social issue?
Especially when one considers that the measure barely passed, anyway, with a much smaller "for" number than just 8 years prior in the Prop 22 vote. I know a 78 year old classic "Black Church Lady" who voted against it because she recognized it for the anti-civil rights measure it was. Most people talking about this don't know any Black Californian voters, at all.
Short answer - There are more "liberal" denominations within Christianity, completely agreed. This is why I said "trend conservative" above, not are "100% overwhelmingly massively anti-gay".
| 555 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:23:05am |
re: #550 wozzablog
A majority of churches don't tend to like teh gayze getting their societal rights on. Opposition to gay marriage cuts across racial lines.
And I am aware of the history of the LDS and the catholic churches.
There are those that do very much, or, (rightly or wrongly) don't feel it's their issue. The loudest screamers against it are invariably white Evangelical churches.
I would just read up more on Black denominations, which in some ways have been a pillar of the "liberal" vote, as long as we've even had a vote. Same for Black civil rights leaders (aside from the infamous "Coretta Scott King") and pastors who came out for gay civil rights.
| 556 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:28:44am |
re: #554 wozzablog
Ok but I'm just saying that they don't all necessarily trend conservative on social issues. Especially civil rights in the Black churches.
There are a lot of people in California (Blacks aren't even 7%). The demographics are more complicated than the conventional wisdom re: Black voters/Prop 8.
| 557 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:31:00am |
re: #555 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
There are those that do very much, or, (rightly or wrongly) don't feel it's their issue. The loudest screamers against it are invariably white Evangelical churches.
I would just read up more on Black denominations, which in some ways have been a pillar of the "liberal" vote, as long as we've even had a vote. Same for Black civil rights leaders (aside from the infamous "Coretta Scott King") and pastors who came out for gay civil rights.
I know Coretta came out in favour (so to speak), but there are areas of the community which do not accept gay rights as a continuation of the historical struggle and are borderline offended by even the insinuation that it is.
I'm not as familiar with the denominations of African-American churches as I am with the "White" ones, and will read further and wider, but will say that in the UK most black churches - particularly the emerging denominations are not as liberal as the established CofE.
| 558 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:34:29am |
re: #555 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
There are those that do very much, or, (rightly or wrongly) don't feel it's their issue. The loudest screamers against it are invariably white Evangelical churches.
I would just read up more on Black denominations, which in some ways have been a pillar of the "liberal" vote, as long as we've even had a vote. Same for Black civil rights leaders (aside from the infamous "Coretta Scott King") and pastors who came out for gay civil rights.
Pretty sure you're thinking of Alveda King. Coretta was hugely in favor of LGBT equality.
| 559 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:36:25am |
re: #557 wozzablog
I know Coretta came out in favour (so to speak), but there are areas of the community which do not accept gay rights as a continuation of the historical struggle and are borderline offended by even the insinuation that it is.
I'm not as familiar with the denominations of African-American churches as I am with the "White" ones, and will read further and wider, but will say that in the UK most black churches - particularly the emerging denominations are not as liberal as the established CofE.
You seem to be missing what I take is a big part of OhCrap's point. What, to me, that she seem to be trying to say isn't to deny that a sizable percentage of African-Americans might have voted for Prop 8 or that might be opposed to some/all gay rights, but rather to point out that there isn't anything magically extra anti-gay about African-Americans or African-American churchgoers. Some are supportive, some are neutral, some are opposed. This is also true for most other ethnic/racial/pick your term groups out there.
| 560 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:37:43am |
And yes, I realize it's a bad idea to try and say what someone else means based on my own interpretation, especially when she's right there.
| 561 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:38:08am |
| 562 |
Flounder Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:40:34am |
re: #561 NJDhockeyfan
Oh my goodness look at that segregation in the concrete! Tap you forms!!
| 563 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:43:14am |
Speaking of pigs...
Pig flies again for Pink Floyd
PINK FLOYD were responsible for chaos over the skies of south east England the last time their iconic pig was inflated.
In 1976 the giant porker slipped its moorings and floated into Heathrow Airport's flight path.
But this morning the 15ft high creature remained where it was supposed to be — in front of London's Battersea Power Station.
The giant beast first featured on the cover of the prog rockers' Animals album 35 years ago.
Its reappearance in the same place was to celebrate the re-release of the band's back catalogue today.
| 564 |
Buck Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:47:30am |
re: #92 HoosierHoops
I say go back 2000 years ago with AK47's and own those damn Romans!
/
Interesting that you thought that. Almost everyone in the future goes back to try and kill Hitler.
2% go back to try and get Gore elected President.
| 565 |
darthstar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:49:17am |
| 566 |
Kragar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:51:03am |
re: #564 Buck
Interesting that you thought that. Almost everyone in the future goes back to try and kill Hitler.
2% go back to try and get Gore elected President.
Pff, go back in time, stash some easily obtained household items in a place you know no one will look, return to your own time, make "THE GREATEST HISTORICAL DISCOVERY OF ALL TIME", profit.
| 567 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:51:57am |
re: #556 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Ok but I'm just saying that they don't all necessarily trend conservative on social issues. Especially civil rights in the Black churches.
There are a lot of people in California (Blacks aren't even 7%). The demographics are more complicated than the conventional wisdom re: Black voters/Prop 8.
re: #559 Simply Sarah
but rather to point out that there isn't anything magically extra anti-gay about African-Americans or African-American churchgoers.
I'm not saying there is anything extra anti-gay about the Black community.
My point, up thread, is that there is a large socially conservative aspect of the Black community across all issues that the GOP want to tap into. That's my point.
The GOP have a lock on Social conservatives in the White community, but not the Black community despite there being a large untapped Conservative bloc.
| 568 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:52:41am |
re: #566 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Pff, go back in time, stash some easily obtained household items in a place you know no one will look, return to your own time, make "THE GREATEST HISTORICAL DISCOVERY OF ALL TIME", profit.
But the Time Police come in and clean it out to prevent the universe-destroying paradox from happening. Look what happened when Geraldo Rivera tried it with his "Al Capone's Vault" caper.
| 569 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:52:42am |
re: #558 goddamnedfrank
Pretty sure you're thinking of Alveda King. Coretta was hugely in favor of LGBT equality.
No, that's what I said.
"Coretta Scott King" is who everyone talks about re: Civil Rights leaders and pro gay rights. But there are a LOT more than just her.
That opportunist Alveda, btw is nothing compared to her niece, Bernice. Bernice had to eat her words/deeds after Bishop Eddie Long getting caught messing around with young men last year.
The antigays never learn: the hottest pastors are always gay. :D
| 570 |
BongCrodny Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:55:36am |
re: #564 Buck
Interesting that you thought that. Almost everyone in the future goes back to try and kill Hitler.
2% go back to try and get Gore elected President.
Interestingly, both groups of time travelers set out to prevent disasters from happening.
| 571 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:55:46am |
re: #559 Simply Sarah
And, of course, OhCrap is, quite understandably, rather upset to see the "Blacks are why Prop 8 pass" nonsense trotted out again.
Would it have been defeated if more African-Americans voted against it? Sure! But, once again, this applies to any demographic group of reasonable size where fewer than 95% of the members didn't vote against Prop 8. Given this, along with the fact that it was largely white religious groups that organized in favor of Prop 8, focusing on the African-American community is foolish and misguided, at best.
I apologize to OhCrap and others for basically repeating what they have said, but clearly this needs to be repeated over and over, lest people forget the reality of things and be taken in by racist myths.
| 572 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:58:05am |
re: #557 wozzablog
I know Coretta came out in favour (so to speak), but there are areas of the community which do not accept gay rights as a continuation of the historical struggle and are borderline offended by even the insinuation that it is.
Believe me, I was raised by two such people; there's nothing in my background that allows to downplay it or deny that element exists. But no more so than any other group of majority-Christian adherents. Some communities like Eastern Orthodox and Catholic are far more antigay than Blacks.
They never come up in Prop 8 discussions, though.
I'm not as familiar with the denominations of African-American churches as I am with the "White" ones, and will read further and wider, but will say that in the UK most black churches - particularly the emerging denominations are not as liberal as the established CofE.
Well, I'm quite familiar with both, for various personal and professional reasons.
Yeah, it's a different situation in the UK as opposed to here because church history developed here much differently. One can't really be extrapolated to the other very well.
| 573 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:58:05am |
re: #566 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Pff, go back in time, stash some easily obtained household items in a place you know no one will look, return to your own time, make "THE GREATEST HISTORICAL DISCOVERY OF ALL TIME", profit.
Or shoot dinosaurs & neanderthals to confuse paleontologists.
| 574 |
Buck Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:59:35am |
re: #570 BongCrodny
Interestingly, both groups of time travelers set out to prevent disasters from happening.
60% of the remainder just vacation.
| 575 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 9:59:58am |
re: #573 NJDhockeyfan
Or shoot dinosaurs & neanderthals to confuse paleontologists.
Dumping rabbits into the Burgess Shale would have made some careers as well.
| 576 |
Kragar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:01:27am |
re: #575 oaktree
Dumping rabbits into the Burgess Shale would have made some careers as well.
Show up as the 4th wiseman bearing gifts of Japanese porn.
| 577 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:01:51am |
re: #571 Simply Sarah
And, of course, OhCrap is, quite understandably, rather upset to see the "Blacks are why Prop 8 pass" nonsense trotted out again.
Would it have been defeated if more African-Americans voted against it? Sure! But, once again, this applies to any demographic group of reasonable size where fewer than 95% of the members didn't vote against Prop 8. Given this, along with the fact that it was largely white religious groups that organized in favor of Prop 8, focusing on the African-American community is foolish and misguided, at best.
I apologize to OhCrap and others for basically repeating what they have said, but clearly this needs to be repeated over and over, lest people forget the reality of things and be taken in by racist myths.
Thanks, SS. But I'm not upset at all. I know wozza is a friend and is also overseas. These things get exported abroad, and I do understand that.
| 578 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:02:59am |
re: #571 Simply Sarah
lest people forget the reality of things and be taken in by racist myths.
The 70% black vote opposed number - which I didn't know had been revised down - was initially a credible number (see voluminous coverage it recieved).
And I'm not sure I said that the black vote was entirely responsible for the failure of Gay Marriage in California........if I gave that impression I'm sorry, it is not my belief.
| 579 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:03:11am |
re: #576 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Show up as the 4th wiseman bearing gifts of Japanese porn.
Or pasta as the representative of the FSM.
| 580 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:05:05am |
re: #570 BongCrodny
Interestingly, both groups of time travelers set out to prevent disasters from happening.
Some just use it to make low budget movies about the Vikings discovering America...
;)
| 581 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:05:29am |
re: #572 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Believe me, I was raised by two such people; there's nothing in my background that allows to downplay it or deny that element exists. But no more so than any other group of majority-Christian adherents. Some communities like Eastern Orthodox and Catholic are far more antigay than Blacks.
I do need to somewhat contest this statement on Catholics, at least. I agree that the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church, many Catholic organizations, and many prominent Catholics are extremely anti-gay, but when it comes to average Americans that identify as Catholic, all data I've seen indicates that they tend to be one of the more accepting and supportive of major Christian denomination memberships when it comes to LGBT issues.
| 582 |
makeitstop Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:05:59am |
re: #563 NJDhockeyfan
Speaking of pigs...
That is one of the greatest album covers ever. Between the pig, that building and the spooky clouds, it could never be re-created.
| 583 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:07:47am |
re: #577 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Thanks, SS. But I'm not upset at all. I know wozza is a friend and is also overseas. These things get exported abroad, and I do understand that.
I think I could have worded that better (This is the story of my life, really). I suppose I should have said that you seemed bothered/exasperated by the idea being out there still. I didn't intend to suggest you were upset with wozza specifically, since that would be an even greater exercise of my non-existent mind reading abilities!
| 584 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:08:50am |
re: #582 makeitstop
That is one of the greatest album covers ever. Between the pig, that building and the spooky clouds, it could never be re-created.
Here's a video:
| 585 |
Kragar Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:09:19am |
re: #579 oaktree
Or pasta as the representative of the FSM.
Travel back to 1845 and let Polk know he should deny a certain Republic into the Union.
| 587 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:14:09am |
re: #578 wozzablog
The 70% black vote opposed number - which I didn't know had been revised down - was initially a credible number (see voluminous coverage it recieved).
And I'm not sure I said that the black vote was entirely responsible for the failure of Gay Marriage in California...if I gave that impression I'm sorry, it is not my belief.
And I apologize for being less careful with my statements then I should have been. If I came off as saying that you specifically were blaming them for the passage of Prop 8, then I apologize for that, as well. This is one of the many issues for me where I'm on a bit of a hair trigger, having seen people roll it out so many times to use it as an attack on the Black community in California.
I understand that you were speaking in good faith based on what you've seen and heard that seemed reliable, which is all that can really be asked.
| 588 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:16:39am |
re: #578 wozzablog
The 70% black vote opposed number - which I didn't know had been revised down - was initially a credible number (see voluminous coverage it recieved).
And I'm not sure I said that the black vote was entirely responsible for the failure of Gay Marriage in California...if I gave that impression I'm sorry, it is not my belief.
It wasn't really revised, just questioned from the start. The 70% figure actually comes from this CNN exit poll of 2240 people. In the aftermath, there were a million pieces that I considered hit pieces on "the black community", like the WP one that was linked.
The breakdown is quite interesting, and does not include one notoriously group which also has a notoriously social conservative Christian contingent, Asian Americans. As always, they get lumped in as "others".
"Vote by race and party ID" is also interesting, since they only tabulate "whites". Bunch of interesting stuff in that poll.
BTW, this is the map for the Prop 8 vote. The large concentrations of Black communities here are found primarily in the yellow areas. [Link: www.sos.ca.gov...]
| 589 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:16:55am |
re: #587 Simply Sarah
I understand that you were speaking in good faith based on what you've seen and heard that seemed reliable, which is all that can really be asked.
Thanks for recognizing that.
I try to be a numbers guy.
| 590 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:19:51am |
re: #581 Simply Sarah
I do need to somewhat contest this statement on Catholics, at least. I agree that the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church, many Catholic organizations, and many prominent Catholics are extremely anti-gay, but when it comes to average Americans that identify as Catholic, all data I've seen indicates that they tend to be one of the more accepting and supportive of major Christian denomination memberships when it comes to LGBT issues.
I find something similar in Black denominations.
In fact, I often say, "dont ask don't tell?...we invented it." Don't think so? Check the choir.
A lot of this is going to shift, anyway, with the end of real DADT and servicepeople no longer being under threat of losing their job if they say anything.
| 591 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:21:18am |
re: #588 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The breakdown is quite interesting, and does not include one
notoriouslygroup which also has a notoriously social conservative Christian contingent, Asian Americans. As always, they get lumped in as "others".
Feh, fixed. I've no excuse for the bad writing and lack of preview today, sorry.
| 592 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:23:40am |
re: #591 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Feh, fixed. I've no excuse for the bad writing and lack of preview today, sorry.
For me, bad writing day is every day (Well, it's actually Commas and Parentheses Day, but whose counting?).
| 593 |
lawhawk Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:24:22am |
Greets and saluts - and a hearty L'shana Tova to all those about to celebrate Rosh Hashana. May the upcoming year be a sweet, joyous, and healthy one.
Yesterday, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame released the names of their nominees and once again, there are three glaring omissions.
Rush, KISS, and Bon Jovi all were left off the list. At this rate, Justin Bieber makes it in before Rush does - even though Rush and KISS were both key music groups and inspired generations of fans and musicians. Heck, with Rush, you've got three of the most talented musicians on the planet at their respective instruments and they get no props? What gives!
| 594 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:24:48am |
re: #592 Simply Sarah
For me, bad writing day is every day (Well, it's actually Commas and Parentheses Day, but whose counting?).
The semi-colons are keeping track. ; ;
| 595 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:26:37am |
re: #594 oaktree
The semi-colons are keeping track. ; ;
Fucking semicolons! I swear that they have it out for me.
| 596 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:28:08am |
| 597 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:28:19am |
re: #593 lawhawk
Greets and saluts - and a hearty L'shana Tova to all those about to celebrate Rosh Hashana. May the upcoming year be a sweet, joyous, and healthy one.
Yesterday, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame released the names of their nominees and once again, there are three glaring omissions.
Rush, KISS, and Bon Jovi all were left off the list. At this rate, Justin Bieber makes it in before Rush does - even though Rush and KISS were both key music groups and inspired generations of fans and musicians. Heck, with Rush, you've got three of the most talented musicians on the planet at their respective instruments and they get no props? What gives!
I've had this on one-song repeat all morning
| 598 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:30:32am |
re: #569 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The antigays never learn: the hottest pastors are always
gay. :D
Argg, pimf antigay.
| 599 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:31:07am |
re: #593 lawhawk
Greets and saluts - and a hearty L'shana Tova to all those about to celebrate Rosh Hashana. May the upcoming year be a sweet, joyous, and healthy one.
Yesterday, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame released the names of their nominees and once again, there are three glaring omissions.
Rush, KISS, and Bon Jovi all were left off the list. At this rate, Justin Bieber makes it in before Rush does - even though Rush and KISS were both key music groups and inspired generations of fans and musicians. Heck, with Rush, you've got three of the most talented musicians on the planet at their respective instruments and they get no props? What gives!
Rush are Canadian and abusing the name of the Great Limbaugh. KISS must be gay since they wore make-up and Satanist because of the blood-spewing Gene Simmons. And Bon Jovi is from New Jersey.
//
| 601 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:40:36am |
re: #600 Gus 802
The semi-colon is keeping the man down.
I thought they were oppressing the underscore at the bequest of their tilde overlords.
| 602 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:48:07am |
| 603 |
albusteve Wed, Sep 28, 2011 10:57:09am |
re: #593 lawhawk
Greets and saluts - and a hearty L'shana Tova to all those about to celebrate Rosh Hashana. May the upcoming year be a sweet, joyous, and healthy one.
Yesterday, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame released the names of their nominees and once again, there are three glaring omissions.
Rush, KISS, and Bon Jovi all were left off the list. At this rate, Justin Bieber makes it in before Rush does - even though Rush and KISS were both key music groups and inspired generations of fans and musicians. Heck, with Rush, you've got three of the most talented musicians on the planet at their respective instruments and they get no props? What gives!
Little Feat has never been considered....it's criminal who goes in and who doesn't
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