Herman Cain's position on abortion, by the way, is not even in the case of incest or rape.

Which I find monstrous.

re: #1 Obdicut

Herman Cain's position on abortion, by the way, is not even in the case of incest or rape.

[Video]Which I find monstrous.

It seems to be an ongoing thing with Republican contenders who are being hailed and cheered for their popular and populistic economic plans, their socon agenda is being mostly ignored by the media.

Abortion isn't going to substantially change anytime soon.
A president's ability to affect change in abortion law is near zero.

re: #3 Samita

Abortion isn't going to substantially change anytime soon.
A president's ability to affect change in abortion law is near zero.

Directly? That's true. Indirectly? Well, they have stacking the Supreme Court with justices that will strike down Roe and Griswold while signing a federal ban on abortion. Yes, that requires Congress, but don't think a GOP majority there wouldn't pass that in a second.

re: #3 Samita

Abortion isn't going to substantially change anytime soon.
A president's ability to affect change in abortion law is near zero.

Why vote for someone that is dishonest about this? Why vote for someone that will waste time and money attempting to make abortion illegal to appease his base?

Plus presidents get to appoint judges. Judges that hate abortion also tend to be the ones that hate the environment, all things science, etc.

re: #3 Samita

That may or may not be the case. It is, however, another position to judge a candidate on. In this case he is an absolutist which is, as Obdi said, monstrous. His position on abortion would be bad even with the rape/incest clauses, it's worse without them. Evidence of a candidate who believes in "small government" but also believes in government intrusiveness into the personal affairs of women.

re: #2 000G

It seems to be an ongoing thing with Republican contenders who are being hailed and cheered for their popular and populistic economic plans, their socon agenda is being mostly ignored by the media.

Seriously. It's like it's just taken for granted that any GOP dude will be a wackaloon, but they somehow get a pass on it.

Herman Cain is proof the the Tea Party can troll all the networks and most blogs (and one state famous for hanging chads.)

re: #3 Samita

Abortion isn't going to substantially change anytime soon.

Access to women's health services most certainly will.

re: #7 Obdicut

Seriously. It's like it's just taken for granted that any GOP dude will be a wackaloon, but they somehow get a pass on it.

It's an extension of the old meme that conservatives/Republicans want to get into your bedroom and liberals/Democrats want to get into your pockets.

Which isn't true, but a lot of people fall for that.

re: #7 Obdicut

Seriously. It's like it's just taken for granted that any GOP dude will be a wackaloon, but they somehow get a pass on it.

Most of the modern, mainstream media has either been cowed into ignoring these things (LIBERAL MEDIA! HUGE CORPORATE OWNERS!) or is actually complicit in pushing those positions. At best, it's driven by some bizarro concept of balance that means not even trying to be objective.

re: #9 publicityStunted

Access to women's health services most certainly will.

Why do we need "planned parenthood". God is taking care of it all, and this just shows a lack of trust.

///
(and cue joke about God sending a boat and a helicopter)

Once you go ...

rotfl

re: #3 Samita

Abortion isn't going to substantially change anytime soon.
A president's ability to affect change in abortion law is near zero.

///Yeah, I mean it's only the president's job to appoint the people who have the power to overturn Roe V Wade if they want to... no biggie.

the guy in the bubble probably used to post here........

[Link: front.moveon.org...]

re: #10 000G

It's an extension of the old meme that conservatives/Republicans want to get into your bedroom and liberals/Democrats want to get into your pockets.

Which isn't true, but a lot of people fall for that.

Ummmm given the GOP's official platform they do want to get into our bedroom's as well as into the doctors office when women are involved. They believe in DOMA, many believe homosexuality should be criminalized, many believe the same thing about abortion and many more believe the same thing about contraception. Those that don't want the above have been so marginalized as to be metaphorically extinct.

(oh and hi everyone, back from a week long trip with the wingnut parents through northern california where my father learned San Francisco is a nice place and not what FOX and the rest make it out to be.)

re: #3 Samita

Abortion isn't going to substantially change anytime soon.
A president's ability to affect change in abortion law is near zero.

Who are you trying to fool?

Is that Romney sticker in your profile current or left from some previous campaign? Which of his positions on abortion do you favor?

re: #16 Dreggas

Ummm given the GOP's official platform they do want to get into our bedroom's as well as into the doctors office when women are involved. They believe in DOMA, many believe homosexuality should be criminalized, many believe the same thing about abortion and many more believe the same thing about contraception. Those that don't want the above have been so marginalized as to be metaphorically extinct.

(oh and hi everyone, back from a week long trip with the wingnut parents through northern california where my father learned San Francisco is a nice place and not what FOX and the rest make it out to be.)

You're correct, but I'm pretty sure 000G was mostly referring to the part about Democrats.

re: #18 Simply Sarah

You're correct, but I'm pretty sure 000G was mostly referring to the part about Democrats.

Actually, I was referring to the fact that the GOP does want to get into your pockets (in addition to wanting to get into your bedrooms). That is, if you are an average American.

re: #19 000G

Actually, I was referring to the fact that the GOP does want to get into your pockets. That is, if you are an average American.

Ah, but that was in the part about Democrats, was it not? *grins*

re: #3 Samita

Abortion isn't going to substantially change anytime soon.
A president's ability to affect change in abortion law is near zero.

Nice, but a little short. Next time, why not make use of my patented "GOP self-delusion instapost". Simply adjust the multiple-choice fields as appropriate.

Hello, I plan to vote GOP in the next election. I realize that all the GOP candidates have a heinous position on [abortion/fair taxation/labor rights/healthcare/race relations/immigration]. However, I don't believe that this matters because [I simply deny that they will implement their heinous position, despite evidence to the contrary/it's not a big voting issue for me]. Furthermore, I think that the GOP will be good for America because [I am a billionaire/I don't understand how progressive taxation works].

I do not intend to respond to any follow-up posts pointing out the inconsistencies in my position. Go Republicans!

re: #12 oaktree

Why do we need "planned parenthood". God is taking care of it all, and this just shows a lack of trust.

///
(and cue joke about God sending a boat and a helicopter)

These people are not just against Planned Parenthood as a health sevices provicer, they seem to be against the very concept of "planned parenthood"...

re: #21 iossarian

I do not intend to respond to any follow-up posts pointing out the inconsistencies in my position.

Yup. He (or she) is gone.

re: #22 ralphieboy

These people are not just against Planned Parenthood as a health sevices provicer, they seem to be against the very concept of "planned parenthood"...

Oh, the GOP base and platform is against women in general, outside of us performing our job of making babies.

re: #24 Simply Sarah

Oh, the GOP base and platform is against women in general, outside of us performing our job of making babies.

and raising them and educating them to love Jesus...

re: #1 Obdicut

Herman Cain's position on abortion, by the way, is not even in the case of incest or rape.

[Video]Which I find monstrous.

Why didn't Stossel used an actor for Cain? Might have gotten more coherent answers.

re: #23 wrenchwench

Yup. He (or she) is gone.

2004, 95 comments. Taciturn.

re: #21 iossarian

"I do not intend to respond to any follow-up posts pointing out the inconsistencies in my position. Go Republicans!"

Of course not. It's a sleeper/sock from the class of 04.

Karma: -8

Samita
GW1 Veteran. 98G - Arab Linguist Intercept. 311 MI BN. 101st

Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 11:30 am
No. of comments posted: 95
No. of Pages posted: 0

re: #26 wrenchwench

Why didn't Stossel used an actor for Cain? Might have gotten more coherent answers.

Redd Foxx died.

re: #28 Bubblehead II

The core of what Samita said was correct: federal abortion laws are not going to change any time soon, but the tendency is to erode access to abortion at state level and that is only going to accelerate with a conservative Republican at the helm.

The man doesn't understand how government works. Running a country is a lot different than running a pizza joint.

re: #31 HappyWarrior

The man doesn't understand how government works. Running a country is a lot different than running a pizza joint.

Ya, that is a really good description of what he did, and what he knows.

/

re: #32 Buck

Ya, that is a really good description of what he did, and what he knows.

/

Enlighten us Buck. What did he do? What does he know?

re: #32 Buck

Ya, that is a really good description of what he did, and what he knows.

/

Ok I admit I oversimplified things, he has been successful but that doesn't mean he's qualified to be president. How many times do we hear about government lifers not understanding the private sector? A lot more than we hear businessmen like Cain criticized for not understanding the government. His degrees are in mathematics and computer sciences which I can tell you require very little if any government classes. He's also never been elected to any office which I think is important to consider since he's shown to me that he doesn't understand the government when he says things like bills should only be three pages long, that he wouldn't appoint any Muslims to his cabinet (FTW G.W Bush had a Muslim man as his ambassador to the UN, Iraq, and Afghanistan all while our troops were in the latter two countries), and I believe he's said something to the effect of foreign policy doesn't matter much to him. He's a novice at government. Not the kind of guy I want as president. He's a successful businessman and that's a different animal than being a successful politician.

re: #33 RayFerd

Enlighten us Buck. What did he do? What does he know?

I suppose you could read his Wiki page just as easy as I could cut and paste from it.

re: #34 HappyWarrior

says things like bills should only be three pages long

You really can't take a joke can you?

Do you really think he said that seriously?

Bottom line, you can disagree with him on all kinds of policy, but to make him seem like he only ran a pizza joint, and doesn't know anything about government is mealy mouthed at best.... racist at worse.

re: #36 Buck

You really can't take a joke can you?

Do you really think he said that seriously?

Bottom line, you can disagree with him on all kinds of policy, but to make him seem like he only ran a pizza joint, and doesn't know anything about government is mealy mouthed at best... racist at worse.

WTF? Racist?

In what way is saying "X knows nothing about government" racist? Here's a clue: saying someone is not qualified for a job is not racist. Saying, a la Breitbart, that someone has large nostrils and looks like a monkey, is racist.

Let's break it down:

1) If the head of a federal department came to Cain and said: "here's my advice on how to run your business", Cain would probably have a negative reaction. What do government types know about business, after all? Funny how that doesn't cut the other way though. Do you think that business leaders are pre-qualified to be political leaders? What about vice-versa?

2) You claim he was "joking" about the "three pages" thing. Let me ask you this: do you think his audience thought he was joking? If so, what was the joke? That of course, government bills need to be long and complicated, but, ha, ha, a caricatural business-type outsider would say they can be a lot shorter? It makes no sense. If you can explain this joke to me, please do.

3) He has a truly awful position on abortion. Are you OK with this?

re: #36 Buck

You really can't take a joke can you?

Do you really think he said that seriously?

Bottom line, you can disagree with him on all kinds of policy, but to make him seem like he only ran a pizza joint, and doesn't know anything about government is mealy mouthed at best... racist at worse.

I didn't say he knew nothing about government. I said I don't think he understands how it works and when he said he thought the US government should be free to ban mosques he showed that or that appointing Muslims to his administration would somehow be enabling Shariah Law. I admit I oversimplified his experience but the fact remains that the guy has not been elected to any government position and shows often he doesn't understand government which despite what you say I said is not the same as saying he doesn't know anything about government. In a president, I want someone who understands how government works quite well not someone who has never held a position in our government. And I'd be saying this if the Papa Johns guy decided to run for office with Cain's resume and record of words. It has zip to do with his race.

And once again Buck sidesteps having to back up a declarative statement with anything resembling fact.

re: #35 Buck

I suppose you could read his Wiki page just as easy as I could cut and paste from it.

And I can read a hack job about him also. I want to know how YOU see him. What you believe he will do for the USA (all of it, not just the "Chosen People").

He had some success in business. How will that help the USA? Maybe we need more advertising? More franchises? Better locations? What?

re: #20 Simply Sarah

Ah, but that was in the part about Democrats, was it not? *grins*

Not really sure what you mean. I was trying to convey that the conventual wisdom that would have you believe that there actually is a reality that is meaningfully described by the dichotomy of Dems/libs only wanting to grab your money and the Reps/cons only wanting to dictate your bedroom manners is a myth.

re: #41 000G

Not really sure what you mean. I was trying to convey that the conventual wisdom that would have you believe that there actually is a reality that is meaningfully described by the dichotomy of Dems/libs only wanting to grab your money and the Reps/cons only wanting to dictate your bedroom manners is a myth.

Yeah, I know. Don't mind me, I'm confusing.

re: #36 Buck

You really can't take a joke can you?

Do you really think he said that seriously?

Bottom line, you can disagree with him on all kinds of policy, but to make him seem like he only ran a pizza joint, and doesn't know anything about government is mealy mouthed at best... racist at worse.

So, that would make all the Republicans who kept harping on Obama's lack of experience in the last election - presumably including yourself - racist, right, Buck?

I can't believe there's still Godfather pizzas around. None around here. They made some shitty pizzas.

re: #43 makeitstop

LOL no shit.

re: #36 Buck

You really can't take a joke can you?

Do you really think he said that seriously?

Bottom line, you can disagree with him on all kinds of policy, but to make him seem like he only ran a pizza joint, and doesn't know anything about government is mealy mouthed at best... racist at worse.

How do you tell if a politician is joking, or just ignorant and plans to be able to say "I was joking" if necessary?

re: #40 RayFerd

He had some success in business. How will that help the USA? Maybe we need more advertising? More franchises? Better locations? What?

When people say the government, or governing, is just like a business then they show that they don't know what they are talking about.

Someone should ask Cain if his business is a democracy, or more like a monarchy.

re: #44 Amory Blaine

I can't believe there's still Godfather pizzas around. None around here. They made some shitty pizzas.

I've never had any of their pizza. Heard the same thing you're saying though. I accept and respect Cain's a successful businessman but is statements and policy ideas to me show he doesn't understand government. The 9-9-9 plan to me sounds more like a Pizza promotion than it does a sincere, well researched, and thought out policy initiative. He talks about wanting to get the government out of people's personal lives yet says he wants abortion banned in all cases. He just doesn't seem to understand how government works that well and that is why I don't want him anywhere near the presidency. If I wanted business advice, I'd listen to him but if I wanted a commander in chief, I'd look far away from Cain.

Damn, every time I take a break and come back to answer what I was reading previously, Charles starts a new thread.

re: #37 iossarian

In what way is saying "X knows nothing about government" racist?

What about calling the CEO of a corporation the guy who ran a pizza joint? Also I said that was "at worse" racism. It is at least mealy mouthed.

Do you think that business leaders are pre-qualified to be political leaders?

Some are. I certainly would not reject someone because of it.

You claim he was "joking" about the "three pages" thing. Let me ask you this: do you think his audience thought he was joking?

They (his audience) were laughing. In all the right places. With him, not at him.

He has a truly awful position on abortion. Are you OK with this?

I am pro choice, with some limitations (late third term issues).

I am convinced that the law of the land is not going to change. I believe that this has been decided at the highest level.

I believe that any attacks against that choice would fail in the courts.

It is not really something that any President could change. He/She would never be able to overcome the constitution's right to privacy. Any president that tried would also find a majority of the electorate against making such a change.

So, no matter what a politicians personal beliefs on the subject, it is not high of what would help me decide a candidates viability.

I just don't think Cain is stupid. Besides a very well rounded resume, he has authored four books. Ironically one of them is titled "They Think You're Stupid" (May 2005).

Okay, I was out of line to say he merely ran a pizza joint. That was a mistake. However, my point still stands that i don't feel he understands government policy and I have given examples that support why I feel the way I do. And I never said he was stupid. Just not the guy I want as president which is different than saying he's stupid. As for choice, Cain and other candidates like him want to appoint judges that will overrule choice and other established precedents. And I think you're ignoring the attacks on choice that have gone on the state level that have occurred since the Republican wave last year. Heck in my own state alone, they've tried to limit the places where abortions can happen legally. Also what about his strong opposition to gay marriage? Other than Huntsman and Paul, I haven't heard any of these candidates say they'll accept the choice of individual states to legalize gay marriage and civil unions.

re: #50 Buck

What about calling the CEO of a corporation the guy who ran a pizza joint? Also I said that was "at worse" racism. It is at least mealy mouthed.

Some are. I certainly would not reject someone because of it.

They (his audience) were laughing. In all the right places. With him, not at him.

I am pro choice, with some limitations (late third term issues).

I am convinced that the law of the land is not going to change. I believe that this has been decided at the highest level.

I believe that any attacks against that choice would fail in the courts.

It is not really something that any President could change. He/She would never be able to overcome the constitution's right to privacy. Any president that tried would also find a majority of the electorate against making such a change.

So, no matter what a politicians personal beliefs on the subject, it is not high of what would help me decide a candidates viability.

Herman Cain becoming president allows him to appoint people to the Supreme court who would overturn Roe V Wade Buck.

Do you think he wouldn't do it?

re: #53 jamesfirecat

Herman Cain becoming president allows him to appoint people to the Supreme court who would overturn Roe V Wade Buck.

Do you think he wouldn't do it?

Exactly, Cain himself can't overturn these precedents but he sure as hell can pick judges who will and he has said flat out that his model justices are Scalia and Thomas, not exactly champions of Roe. Also, he's on record as wanting to defund Planned Parenthood which I believe passed the House with few Republicans opposing that. So, all it would really take would be a Republican majority in both houses and Cain's signature. Cain can't overturn long standing precedents on his own but he sure as hell can make it easier.

re: #53 jamesfirecat

Herman Cain becoming president allows him to appoint people to the Supreme court who would overturn Roe V Wade Buck.

Do you think he wouldn't do it?

Actually he can't just "appoint people to the Supreme court who would overturn Roe V Wade".

First Judges have to retire. Then he has to get the conservative judges through the process. Not an easy task. And no guarantee they would play ball.

If that many Judges should happen to retire, AND he was able to get them past the two-step Senate confirmation process. THEN a case has to come up through the regular courts, and be accepted by the SCOTUS for consideration. Not only would Roe v Wade have to be over turned.... but Doe v. Bolton and many other cases would have to be re-thought.

Then he would have to be able to navigate past the electorate who, polls say, would not support any major changes. It would be political suicide.

Nope. Not going to happen.

"It's the economy stupid" is a well known expression that I think applies here. "Worry endlessly about things that can't possibly change, at the expense of the economy" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

re: #52 HappyWarrior

i don't feel he understands government policy and I have given examples that support why I feel the way I do.

I don't see any real examples... you say you don't think 9-9-9 is well thought out, but you don't give examples why.

And I never said he was stupid.

If you say that "The man doesn't understand how government works" and the example of that is that "he says things like bills should only be three pages long". Then yes you are calling him stupid.

He doesn't REALLY think that. Jon Stewart made the same insinuation.

He actually wrote a book that covers a lot of what he knows about government. I would guess you haven't read it.

The truth is you don't know him very well. It is fine to disagree with the policies you do know about (the muslim thing is kinda exaggerated).

I am pretty sure that he could never get 999 passed, but it is imaginative.

I have never supported "Flat Tax" concepts. Mostly because it would be too hard to implement... too hard to turn the huge oil tanker that is the tax system around.

I would love to have more people read the 999 plan and discuss it. I think it would be interesting.

re: #51 Buck

I just don't think Cain is stupid. Besides a very well rounded resume, he has authored four books. Ironically one of them is titled "They Think You're Stupid" (May 2005).

I swear, you and Straw Man must be having an affair.

Who said Herman Cain is "stupid"?

His 17 constituents, perhaps. But the man himself - tmk, no one has said he is.

re: #55 Buck

Actually he can't just "appoint people to the Supreme court who would overturn Roe V Wade".

First Judges have to retire. Then he has to get the conservative judges through the process. Not an easy task. And no guarantee they would play ball.

If that many Judges should happen to retire, AND he was able to get them past the two-step Senate confirmation process. THEN a case has to come up through the regular courts, and be accepted by the SCOTUS for consideration. Not only would Roe v Wade have to be over turned... but Doe v. Bolton and many other cases would have to be re-thought.

Then he would have to be able to navigate past the electorate who, polls say, would not support any major changes. It would be political suicide.

Nope. Not going to happen.

"It's the economy stupid" is a well known expression that I think applies here. "Worry endlessly about things that can't possibly change, at the expense of the economy" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Maybe you can have a talk with the American Republicans who still seem hell bent on passing far more laws relating to abortion than to the economy Buck...

Because from what I've seen about the current Republican Congress they're all about letting the economy flounder while chasing after their social agenda with every chance they get.

re: #57 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I swear, you and Straw Man must be having an affair.

Who said Herman Cain is "stupid"?

His 17 constituents, perhaps. But the man himself - tmk, no one has said he is.

It is your answer for every post. Strawman Strawman!!!!

I explain it in better detail in #56

re: #58 jamesfirecat

Because from what I've seen about the current Republican Congress they're all about letting the economy flounder while chasing after their social agenda with every chance they get.

Well that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Just so you know, to many conservatives, that describes what Obama is doing.

You see, social agenda is in the eyes of the beholder.

re: #60 Buck

Well that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Just so you know, to many conservatives, that describes what Obama is doing.

You see, social agenda is in the eyes of the beholder.

No its not just in the eyes of the behold Buck its a fact.

Or if it isn't... name for me what the current Republican Congress has done on the jobs front and I'll admit you're right.