Obama Adviser Valerie Jarrett’s Speech Provokes Right Wing Outrage, Racial Slurs

The fake outrage du jour
Wingnuts • Views: 30,938

Here we go again; the Perpetual Assembly Line of Fake Right Wing Outrages cranks out another bogus story, and the right wing blogs and media all start squawking in unison.

President Obama’s senior adviser Valerie Jarrett gave a speech recently, in which she said that government should help create jobs so people can have better lives and provide for their families.

Youtube Video

That, of course, is the cue for thousands of deranged right wing rants about COMMIES TAKING OVER! BLACK COMMIES! TAKING OVER!

At the Fox News website they blatantly misrepresent what Jarrett said in their headline: Valerie Jarrett: The Point of Government Is to Give People a Livelihood So They Can Provide for Their Families.

They’re also ranting away at Hot Air: Obama senior adviser Valerie Jarrett: Government is supposed to lift people out of poverty.

And of course, the denizens of Andrew Breitbart’s sites have their own special brand of hatred, laced with overt racism: Breitbart.tv » Valerie Jarrett: Point Of Government Is To Give People Livelihood So They Can Provide For Their Families.

Wow!! So much for diversity in THAT room!! Hehehehe! Chit! It was so dark in there I would have been tempted to turn a friggin light on for crying out loud!!

[…]

shh, cockroaches are scared of the light.

[…]

Yes, I definitely saw a “black cloud” descending onto that room…

[…]

May the Lord destroy the shadow of her existence, her name be stricken from the record of life and Chicago be blessed with her countenance until unions are swallowed up by the earth and spewed out as brimstone monument to Obama.

[…]

Is it just me, or was the whole congregation “black”

[…]

She ought to be hanging from a tree,treasonist whore.

[…]

In Other words “Stay on the Plantation and we will give you food, shelter and drug money”

[…]

It is covered under the “reason women and blacks should not hold political office” section. This is a perfect example and they are spinning in their graves! What she is saying is exactly what they were against.

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289 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:55:41pm

I've reached the point where I am not shocked anymore. Black person says something they don't like, racist shit galore. And honestly there was nothing wrong with what Valarie Jarrett said.

2 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:56:59pm

I too think that the government should take steps to lift people out of poverty.

I also know the policies of FDR helped to pull us out of the Great Depression, in part by giving government jobs-- doing actual work-- to many Americans.

The field of GOP idiot candidates, on the other hand, are claiming the government never creates jobs. While being protected by policemen.

3 dragonfire1981  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:57:14pm

I need to make a graphic that says "sigh...not this shit again!" so I can break it out whenever one of these threads pop up (and unfortunately they pop up a lot).

4 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:58:44pm

re: #3 dragonfire1981

Image: 41814_146608455371180_6608_n.jpg

5 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:59:34pm

re: #3 dragonfire1981

I need to make a graphic that says "sigh...not this shit again!" so I can break it out whenever one of these threads pop up (and unfortunately they pop up a lot).

Image: facepalm.jpg

6 erik_t  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:59:35pm

What a high-effort political position these people have taken. Honestly, it seems like it would be easier to find other things to be angry about. Bile's not free, folks.

7 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:00:37pm

What do they think of hte GI Bill? The law many credit with creating the bustling middle class and prosperity of the 60's. There's no reason at all why for example a poorer college student can't take out a student loan from the government. We're all not from the same socio-economic backgrounds. Giving everyone the chance to achieve the American dream is a fine thing. Having a society that caters to the whelms of the wealthy and big business is not. And they can disagree with Ms. Jarrett if they want to but the vicious attacks on her and her race show what vile assholes they are.

8 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:00:53pm

re: #2 Obdicut

I too think that the government should take steps to lift people out of poverty.

I also know the policies of FDR helped to pull us out of the Great Depression, in part by giving government jobs-- doing actual work-- to many Americans.

The field of GOP idiot candidates, on the other hand, are claiming the government never creates jobs. While being protected by policemen.

some of the stuff I've seen done by the CCC, I consider art....there is some beautiful stonework here in NM that is eye popping and now registered as national historic landmarks...a really terrific story

9 dragonfire1981  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:03:24pm

The thing is private enterprise is doing a shitty job of creating jobs or hiring anyone right now.

- Temp work is becoming more the norm
- Full time jobs are harder to come by
- Layoffs are STILL common
- Wages are hopelessly stagnated and falling further behind the cost of living each and every day.

So it seems to me that someone has to do something. There are really only two entities with the power to create jobs in this country: The Private sector and the Public sector.

The stupid thing is the majority of the "stimulus spending" has gone to already wealthy bankers, bureaucrats and politicians. No one I know has seen a dime of "stimulus" money.

We need to find ways to help on main street. We need to find ways to help people provide for their families. I myself am working two jobs right now and barely making it. What I wouldn't give for one decent full time gig but they're just not out there.

Quite frankly the government SHOULD stop with the stalemating and stonewalling and partisan bullshit and try to actually accomplish something in terms of improving their economy.

But it won't happen because the GOP is obsessed with taking down Obama, even if it means taking the rest of of us down too.

10 erik_t  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:05:01pm

re: #9 dragonfire1981

The stupid thing is the majority of the "stimulus spending" has gone to already wealthy bankers, bureaucrats and politicians. No one I know has seen a dime of "stimulus" money.

Don't know any construction folk, I take it. I swear, you can't drive twenty feet in a lot of places without running into an orange ARRA road sign.

11 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:08:02pm

re: #8 albusteve

some of the stuff I've seen done by the CCC, I consider art...there is some beautiful stonework here in NM that is eye popping and now registered as national historic landmarks...a really terrific story

I believe there was a federal musicians project that got a lot of old blues recordings. That's cool stuff too in my book.

12 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:08:15pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

Black person says something they don't like, racist shit galore.

Yeah, Black person expresses ANYTHING that doesn't endorse conservative confederacy, and racist shit galore.

It's been going on for generations, and generations, and generations and and and...

13 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:08:27pm

re: #3 dragonfire1981

I need to make a graphic that says "sigh...not this shit again!" so I can break it out whenever one of these threads pop up (and unfortunately they pop up a lot).

Image: 121181-wtf_picard-468x.jpg

14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:09:22pm

re: #2 Obdicut

The field of GOP idiot candidates, on the other hand, are claiming the government never creates jobs. While being protected by policemen.

...and cashing their government payroll checks.

15 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:09:37pm

re: #3 dragonfire1981

I need to make a graphic that says "sigh...not this shit again!" so I can break it out whenever one of these threads pop up (and unfortunately they pop up a lot).

I prefer...

16 bratwurst  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:10:01pm

I believe this also calls for:

Image: 2ccb0a84-0165-47d6-9d82-4144ab5e1000.jpg

17 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:10:26pm

Saw a funny sign posted on facebook: CUT TAXES NOT DEFENSE.
I loled of course.

18 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:11:22pm

The irony is delicious:

The second some jerkoff hits a computer key, he thinks he’s a journalist. These clowns put out stuff every day to damage people.

Roger Ailes, Fox News Channel president, on bloggers.

19 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:13:13pm

re: #3 dragonfire1981

I need to make a graphic that says "sigh...not this shit again!" so I can break it out whenever one of these threads pop up (and unfortunately they pop up a lot).

[Link: annares.files.wordpress.com...]

20 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:15:31pm

re: #6 erik_t

What a high-effort political position these people have taken. Honestly, it seems like it would be easier to find other things to be angry about. Bile's not free, folks.

Maybe someday they'll all get so worked up they'll explode or combust or something.

A guy can dream.

21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:16:57pm

re: #8 albusteve

some of the stuff I've seen done by the CCC, I consider art...there is some beautiful stonework here in NM that is eye popping and now registered as national historic landmarks...a really terrific story

A friend of mine went to Will Rogers High in Tulsa, OK. I visited her a couple years ago and went and saw it. It's a little overgrown by now, but if you're a deco fan, it's gorgeous. Then we went and saw the granddaddy of all high schools, ever, Little Rock Central. That was 1927, but the place looks like Cambridge U.

I bet deco/CCC era buildings in NM are out of control beautiful.

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:18:02pm

via Sully via Cracked (check it out!):

[Link: citeseerx.ist.psu.edu...]

Face composite programs permit eyewitnesses to build likenesses of target faces by selecting facial
features and combining them into an intact face. Research has shown that these composites are generally
poor likenesses of the target face. Two experiments tested the proposition that this composite-building
process could harm the builder’s memory for the face. In Experiment 1 (n 150), the authors used 50
different faces and found that the building of a composite reduced the chances that the person could later
identify the original face from a lineup when compared with no composite control conditions or with
yoked composite– exposure control conditions. In Experiment 2 (n 200), the authors found that this
effect generalized to a simulated-crime video, but mistaken identifications from target-absent lineups
were not inflated by composite building.

23 Ming  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:18:29pm

Apparently the right-wing point of view is that the government should kill Muslims in foreign lands, finance DEA raids on perfectly innocent people whose names were mentioned by some informant under torture, put homosexuals in jail, and investigate every miscarriage in America. That's good government!

But not everything the government does is good! The right-wing is outraged by the suggestion that the government might be able to help create some jobs for people. Putting people back to work = socialism! Putting a woman in jail for a questionable miscarriage = America as it can be and ought to be (cue the violins).

24 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:19:15pm

re: #3 dragonfire1981

I need to make a graphic that says "sigh...not this shit again!" so I can break it out whenever one of these threads pop up (and unfortunately they pop up a lot).

Yeah a cool cat one please!

25 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:20:52pm

re: #23 Ming

Apparently the right-wing point of view is that the government should kill Muslims in foreign lands, finance DEA raids on perfectly innocent people whose names were mentioned by some informant under torture, put homosexuals in jail, and investigate every miscarriage in America. That's good government!

But not everything the government does is good! The right-wing is outraged by the suggestion that the government might be able to help create some jobs for people. Putting people back to work = socialism! Putting a woman in jail for a questionable miscarriage = America as it can be and ought to be (cue the violins).

I've said it before but I am truly skeptical of most self described small government conservatives who run for office. Why? Because they talk about how bad the government is then want to use that same government for pushing their morals on people. Government involvement to improve education and health care is bad and Marxist but government telling gays they can't marry or profiling Muslims why that's great! They're full of it and yet people buy it.

26 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:23:05pm

re: #2 Obdicut

I too think that the government should take steps to lift people out of poverty.

Absolutely, it's demonstrably more cost effective than leaving them there. Fighting poverty pays off, report says:

A homeless person in Calgary, for example, can run up $42,000 a year in costs at emergency shelters. Putting that person in a prison or psychiatric hospital would cost about $120,000. But giving that person access to supportive housing and social services would cost between $13,000 and $18,000, the report says.

27 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:23:11pm

re: #21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A friend of mine went to Will Rogers High in Tulsa, OK. I visited her a couple years ago and went and saw it. It's a little overgrown by now, but if you're a deco fan, it's gorgeous. Then we went and saw the granddaddy of all high schools, ever, Little Rock Central. That was 1927, but the place looks like Cambridge U.

I bet deco/CCC era buildings in NM are out of control beautiful.

Googled LRHC--looks like the freakn' temple of Queen Hatshepsut, but taller.

Image: Little-Rock-main.jpg

[Link: t1.gstatic.com...]

28 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:24:45pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

Yes. I actually meant from a moral point of view, but it's a very, very, very good point that it actually is in our economic self-interest to do so.

Humans help one another. That's what we do. If we choose not to, we will die.

29 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:24:51pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

Absolutely, it's demonstrably more cost effective than leaving them there. Fighting poverty pays off, report says:

So, helping the poor isn't the right thing to do, it's fiscally responsible too. Hmmm that.

30 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:25:12pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

I believe there was a federal musicians project that got a lot of old blues recordings. That's cool stuff too in my book.

you're probably thinking of the famed John Lomax recordings of the mid-late 30's...done for the Library of Congress via FDR's Works Progress Administration....that story os a whole book by itself

31 Charleston Chew  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:26:00pm

If these people were asked to name three emotions they'd say, "What are the other two?"

32 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:26:11pm

re: #28 Obdicut

Yes. I actually meant from a moral point of view, but it's a very, very, very good point that it actually is in our economic self-interest to do so.

Humans help one another. That's what we do. If we choose not to, we will die.

That's OK, as long as John Galt dies last.

33 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:27:04pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

Googled LRHC--looks like the freakn' temple of Queen Hatshepsut, but taller.

Image: Little-Rock-main.jpg

[Link: t1.gstatic.com...]

whoa what a monster....man, what a building

34 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:28:26pm

re: #30 albusteve

you're probably thinking of the famed John Lomax recordings of the mid-late 30's...done for the Library of Congress via FDR's Works Progress Administration...that story os a whole book by itself

Yeah, that's it. Thanks. A cool story.I am glad they did that.

35 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:28:37pm

I saw a woman spanking her chihuahua this morning.


Yes, the dog...what did you think I meant? She was trying to get it to stop barking, but I figured it was worth coining a new phrase that can easily be misconstrued.

36 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:29:48pm

forgot to thank OhCrap for the tip....now I want to see that school....architecture is a pastime for me

37 Charleston Chew  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:30:11pm

re: #25 HappyWarrior

I've said it before but I am truly skeptical of most self described small government conservatives who run for office. Why? Because they talk about how bad the government is then want to use that same government for pushing their morals on people. Government involvement to improve education and health care is bad and Marxist but government telling gays they can't marry or profiling Muslims why that's great! They're full of it and yet people buy it.

Actually, they're all huge supporters of government healthcare and pensions.

For Congress.

38 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:30:31pm

re: #30 albusteve

you're probably thinking of the famed John Lomax recordings of the mid-late 30's...done for the Library of Congress via FDR's Works Progress Administration...that story os a whole book by itself

Dink's Song (Can't find original stuff, but this is a good mountain version).

Youtube Video
39 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:31:25pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

Googled LRHC--looks like the freakn' temple of Queen Hatshepsut, but taller.

Image: Little-Rock-main.jpg

[Link: t1.gstatic.com...]

Shit, that's some high school. The one I went to was built in the late 60's. The middle school was built in the early 30's but was heavily renovated. There was a part of the school that was the fallout shelter during the Cold War. You could even see the old sign. That was neat. My university is relatively new having been founded in the 50s so there's not much in the way of old buildings with character here.

40 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:32:08pm

re: #28 Obdicut

Yes. I actually meant from a moral point of view, but it's a very, very, very good point that it actually is in our economic self-interest to do so.

Humans help one another. That's what we do. If we choose not to, we will die.

We help one another within the confines of our "societal" bounds.

I don't mean anything Randian by it at all, of course. We just don't tend to extend the same services to "outsiders," de jure or de facto.

It's what humans do.

41 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:32:32pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Yeah, that's it. Thanks. A cool story.I am glad they did that.

it was John's son Allen, (a friend of my landlord) that followed his dad's footsteps and recorded so many of the old Delta bluesmen. often the only recordings they did....it's an awesome story if you're into that stuff

42 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:33:31pm

re: #29 HappyWarrior

So, helping the poor isn't the right thing to do, it's fiscally responsible too. Hmmm that.

It's right both because it's fiscally responsible and because it's conducive to a minimally basic sense of human empathy. Therefore those who are utterly lacking in the latter can still appreciate the former.

43 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:33:33pm

re: #35 darthstar

I saw a woman spanking her chihuahua this morning.

Yes, the dog...what did you think I meant? She was trying to get it to stop barking, but I figured it was worth coining a new phrase that can easily be misconstrued.

I bet you spank your Mastiff...right?

44 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:34:13pm

re: #41 albusteve

it was John's son Allen, (a friend of my landlord) that followed his dad's footsteps and recorded so many of the old Delta bluesmen. often the only recordings they did...it's an awesome story if you're into that stuff

Cool. I agree, it really is an awesome story since for the longest time that stuff had never even been heard. And I know how much the Delta Blues influenced bands like the Stones and guys like Clapton.

45 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:34:34pm

re: #40 laZardo

If you look at hunter-gatherer societies, they do indeed give help-- and place a high premium on hospitality for-- strangers.

So why do you say it's human to only help inside a societal boundary?

What are you defining as a societal boundary?

46 Charleston Chew  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:35:06pm

re: #18 000G

The irony is delicious:

Roger Ailes, Fox News Channel president, on bloggers.

Bloggers' amateur fake journalism insults him as a professional fake journalist.

47 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:36:11pm

re: #43 albusteve

I bet you spank your Mastiff...right?

Penis humor? I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you would resort to such base behavior...for shame, SHAME I say!

48 erik_t  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:37:15pm

re: #47 darthstar

The humor works a little bit better away from the base.

The more you know...

49 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:37:21pm

re: #29 HappyWarrior

Depends on the calculus you are using.

"Extermination through labor" comes to mind…

50 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:37:55pm

re: #44 HappyWarrior

Cool. I agree, it really is an awesome story since for the longest time that stuff had never even been heard. And I know how much the Delta Blues influenced bands like the Stones and guys like Clapton.

the Delta Blues was the beginning for all practical purposes...and the rhythms and chants that were it's foundation come from West Africa....slaves gave us the wonderful, awesome blues...an epic tale

51 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:39:31pm

re: #50 albusteve

the Delta Blues was the beginning for all practical purposes...and the rhythms and chants that were it's foundation come from West Africa...slaves gave us the wonderful, awesome blues...an epic tale

Yeah I am familiar a little with the role that slaves have with American music. One thing I have to say I've started appreciating as I get older is acoustic instruments. I still love electric guitar but I can appreciate an acoustic guitarist just as well now.

52 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:39:58pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

Dink's Song (Can't find original stuff, but this is a good mountain version).

[Video]

Look what you did!

dinky

(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 15, 2007 at 4:54 pm
No. of comments posted: 3
No. of Pages posted: 0

53 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:40:26pm

re: #47 darthstar

Penis humor? I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you would resort to such base behavior...for shame, SHAME I say!

not at all...I was merely proving I could spell Mastiff

54 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:41:00pm

re: #45 Obdicut

If you look at hunter-gatherer societies, they do indeed give help-- and place a high premium on hospitality for-- strangers.

So why do you say it's human to only help inside a societal boundary?

What are you defining as a societal boundary?

The term "societal boundary" is actually quite vague. It can include territorial boundaries, jurisdictions, and of course, good ol' fashioned biological/ethnic instinct.

Americans (and perhaps other Western societies) have been as hostile to immigrants as they have been welcoming to them, in an almost schizophrenic fashion.

55 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:42:30pm

re: #51 HappyWarrior

Yeah I am familiar a little with the role that slaves have with American music. One thing I have to say I've started appreciating as I get older is acoustic instruments. I still love electric guitar but I can appreciate an acoustic guitarist just as well now.

when I visit NOLA I head straight to Congo Square...my own Mecca...
I want to hear the drums, and I swear I do

56 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:43:53pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

It's right both because it's fiscally responsible and because it's conducive to a minimally basic sense of human empathy. Therefore those who are utterly lacking in the latter can still appreciate the former.

I guess what I'm saying is that it takes not only a complete lack of empathy on the part of a so called "fiscal conservative" to oppose measures meant to ensure the general welfare, but its exact opposite, antipathy/hate. They either must ignore the logical, provable and intuitive reality that fighting poverty is more cost effective for society, or they simply must not care. Either way the ideology that demands this cognitively dissonant break from realty (being a fiscal conservative that doesn't care about wasting money) stems from hatred of the poor, mixed with a healthy dose of narcissism at not personally being poor.

57 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:44:26pm

re: #45 Obdicut

If you look at hunter-gatherer societies, they do indeed give help-- and place a high premium on hospitality for-- strangers.

So why do you say it's human to only help inside a societal boundary?

What are you defining as a societal boundary?

It depends on how the H-G society forms group identities. There have been some even relatively recently who will war on neighbouring tribes/groups yet accept strangers into their community, think Blackfoot vs Cree.

Modern humans tend to move in multiple groups and many times those groups nest into one another. Our modern group boundaries are also fuzzy when compared to smaller, more formal groups like H-G societies.

The societal boundary is defined by the group and if you go far enough back groups are determined by our selfish genes.

58 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:45:38pm

re: #51 HappyWarrior

Yeah I am familiar a little with the role that slaves have with American music. One thing I have to say I've started appreciating as I get older is acoustic instruments. I still love electric guitar but I can appreciate an acoustic guitarist just as well now.

I HIGHLY recommend you read Deep Blues by Robert Palmer....the definitive history of the earliest country blues....cheap from Amazon, and a easy short read

59 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:46:44pm

But wait! I thought the new teabagger Congress's number one focus was jobs! They must have realized the only black communist women think the government has any business creating jobs or, you know, improving people's lives. That would explain their sudden obsessions with abortion, gays, Shariah law, and anything else decidedly unrelated to jobs.

60 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:48:11pm

re: #57 b_sharp

I don't think you can say that groups are determined by our genetics. I'm not even sure what that means. We'll generally be genetically related to the people around us, in a pre-tech society.

And sure, there's war and conflict even among hunter-gatherer societies. But it isn't true that they restrict aid to people only inside the group.

61 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:51:19pm

re: #58 albusteve

I HIGHLY recommend you read Deep Blues by Robert Palmer...the definitive history of the earliest country blues...cheap from Amazon, and a easy short read

Thanks, I'll look.

62 dragonfire1981  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:52:19pm

Ok, I'm not photoshop expert but I think I've got a decent one here:

Image: crapcat.jpg

63 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:53:11pm

re: #32 Decatur Deb

That's OK, as long as John Galt dies last.

Thought I'd post this again as it seems appropriate. Traders: worse than psychopaths:

A new study from Switzerland has taken a look at the behavior of 28 financial traders in a decision-making game and concluded that, as a group, they exhibited strong psychopathic behavior. They were prone to lying and cheating and were even more uncooperative, egocentric and stubborn than psychopaths.

The medium here was the classic Prisoners' Dilemma game, which you know all about.

"The outcome seems to indicate that bank traders are even more prone than psychopathic individuals to rely on strategies that do not optimize their own total profit but considerably harm the profit of their gaming partner. Healthy controls achieved the same profit on their own part as traders and psychopaths but used a strategy that led to an equal profit of their partner and hence led to the highest overall profit, whereas the lowest overall profit was achieved by the traders."

64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:54:12pm

re: #23 Ming

Apparently the right-wing point of view is that the government should kill Muslims in foreign lands, finance DEA raids on perfectly innocent people whose names were mentioned by some informant under torture, put homosexuals in jail, and investigate every miscarriage in America. That's good government.

Yes. State policing of all numerical/social minorities and warmongering on nations that did nothing to us is "less government" to them.

Classic states right mentality, and they're quite explicit in using that term, too. So, I don't minf calling them confederates.

65 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 2:55:59pm

re: #64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes. State policing of all numerical/social minorities and warmongering on nations that did nothing to us is "less government" to them.

Classic states right mentality, and they're quite explicit in using that term, too. So, I don't minf calling them confederates.

I prefer something more gritty, like bigot assholes

66 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:01:11pm

re: #7 HappyWarrior

What do they think of hte GI Bill? The law many credit with creating the bustling middle class and prosperity of the 60's. There's no reason at all why for example a poorer college student can't take out a student loan from the government. We're all not from the same socio-economic backgrounds. Giving everyone the chance to achieve the American dream is a fine thing. Having a society that caters to the whelms of the wealthy and big business is not. And they can disagree with Ms. Jarrett if they want to but the vicious attacks on her and her race show what vile assholes they are.

I'm afraid that when I hear the phrase "American Dream" I think of this bit of dialog from Watchmen.

Night Owl: What happened to us? What's happened to the American Dream?

Comedian: What happened to the American Dream? Look around you. It came true!

Sigh.

67 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:06:49pm

re: #60 Obdicut

I don't think you can say that groups are determined by our genetics. I'm not even sure what that means. We'll generally be genetically related to the people around us, in a pre-tech society.

And sure, there's war and conflict even among hunter-gatherer societies. But it isn't true that they restrict aid to people only inside the group.

We've gone beyond forming groups consisting of only relatives, but we still have a difficult time relating to more than ~100 people or so. It has been speculated that our brains increased in size to keep track of relationships and who owed who what.

What I see us doing now is building on that ability by nesting/overlapping the groups we belong to, the largest group is usually humanity (although for some it might be Earthly life) and the smallest immediate family.

Maybe an example might help.

I relate most closely with my grandkid, my kids, my siblings and my dad. I would do more for them than anyone else and they make up a in-group. I next relate best to my personal friends and would do just about anything for them, but if a conflict came up between my siblings and my friends, I would side with my siblings if it became necessary. Next would come my neighbours and acquaintances, then computer nerds, then members of my province, then my country and so on.

On any given day, I'd be quite happy to help anybody, as would you I suspect.

Would that desire to help a stranger change if you found out the person was a member of the KKK, or the Hells Angels?

IBBL.

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:08:10pm

re: #67 b_sharp

Would my help have any chance of helping that person to reconsider their choices?

69 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:08:37pm

re: #67 b_sharp

None of that had anything to do with genetics, though.

I'm not saying that humans always help other people under any circumstances, which is the barrier you've now thrown up.

Humans help one another. We're a communal species. If we don't, we die. There aren't any-- or are extremely rare-- individual humans who survive on their own.

70 RadicalModerate  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:10:27pm

Wow. Some good news from the Supreme Court regarding Texas' new draconic abortion/sonogram law:

Supreme Court Blocks Texas Abortion/Sonogram Law

The U.S. Supreme Court said Thursday that Texas can't enforce an abortion/sonogram law passed by the state legislature last summer while the measure is under appeal, the Texas Tribune reports.

On Wednesday, the U.S. Fifth Circut Court of Appeals refused to allow the law to go into effect while it was being appealed.

An Austin judge ruled that the parts of the law that required a doctor to display an ultrasound image, make the heartbeat audible and describe the fetus before terminating a pregnancy were unconstitutional.

The state appealed the ruling last month.

The remainder of the law, which requires women to undergo an invasive vaginal sonogram at least 24 hours prior to the abortion, was still required and was to go into effect Oct. 1.

The swing vote for the injunction came from Antonin Scalia.

71 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:11:04pm

First thing. These racist wingnuts need to go crawl back under their rocks white sheets. Second. Check this out...OT and a repost of sorts... Look who showed up on Wall Street...

Image: 999x.jpg

NEW YORK, NY - SEPTEMBER 27: Over 700 hundred Continental and United pilots, joined by additional pilots from other Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) carriers, demonstrate in front of Wall Street on September 27, 2011 in New York City. The pilots want to draw attention to the lack of progress on negotiations of the pilots' joint collective bargaining agreement ahead of the one-year anniversary of the corporate merger close date of United and Continental airlines.

Occupy Wall Street!

also this...

Occupy Wall Street growing rapidly

Occupy Wall Street is experiencing a burst of rapid visibility and support. Several established groups are now getting involved...

72 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:12:02pm

re: #71 Gus 802

Impressive.

73 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:12:46pm

re: #72 Sergey Romanov

Impressive.

More here...

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

74 freetoken  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:12:48pm

re: #71 Gus 802

The move of protests from the nominal seat of government (DC) to the financial district of NY is showing that as a group our society is finally figuring out where the real power resides?

75 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:12:59pm

re: #72 Sergey Romanov

Impressive.

Most impressive...

76 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:13:41pm

re: #71 Gus 802

First thing. These racist wingnuts need to go crawl back under their rocks white sheets. Second. Check this out...OT and a repost of sorts... Look who showed up on Wall Street...

Image: 999x.jpg

NEW YORK, NY - SEPTEMBER 27: Over 700 hundred Continental and United pilots, joined by additional pilots from other Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) carriers, demonstrate in front of Wall Street on September 27, 2011 in New York City. The pilots want to draw attention to the lack of progress on negotiations of the pilots' joint collective bargaining agreement ahead of the one-year anniversary of the corporate merger close date of United and Continental airlines.

Occupy Wall Street!

also this...

Occupy Wall Street growing rapidly

left, right
left, right
halt!

78 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:14:20pm

re: #76 albusteve

Yes, the protesting is now being done by people with actual discipline.

79 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:15:01pm

re: #77 Sergey Romanov

Not bad: Image: Screen_Shot_2011-09-29_at_1.31.03_PM.png

Cut taxes, not Defense...good luck paying for that Defense you care about lady...and you, in the blue chair...who pays your medicare?

80 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:15:02pm

re: #77 Sergey Romanov

Not bad: Image: Screen_Shot_2011-09-29_at_1.31.03_PM.png

that's a good one

81 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:15:17pm

re: #70 RadicalModerate

The U.S. Supreme Court said Thursday that Texas can't enforce an abortion/sonogram law passed by the state legislature last summer while the measure is under appeal,

Isn't that SOP for courts? That is the extent of the ruling as far as I can tell..
Who knows what the appeal will do?
It should be shot down in appeal just by the stupidity rule...

82 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:16:01pm

re: #78 EmmmieG

Yes, the protesting is now being done by people with actual discipline.

And a greater than sixth grade reading level. No misspelled signs in that crowd.

83 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:16:04pm

re: #74 freetoken

The move of protests from the nominal seat of government (DC) to the financial district of NY is showing that as a group our society is finally figuring out where the real power resides?

I hope this grows and grows. It's about time we started having protests like this. Great to see the pilots show up for their end of the raw deal we've been getting served.

84 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:16:27pm

John Jay is exactly the kind of person Sinclair Lewis wrote of in It Can't Happen Here. He'd be the first to don a Brown Shirt.

85 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:18:54pm

re: #83 Gus 802

I've got to say I'm surprised. I didn't expect organized labor to get involved.

It does make sense, though. The GOP really is trying to absolutely destroy unions in this country, and obviously that's being done to 'benefit' (in a short-sighted way) corporations.

86 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:19:04pm

re: #83 Gus 802

I hope this grows and grows. It's about time we started having protests like this. Great to see the pilots show up for their end of the raw deal we've been getting served.

I'm headed for NYC tomorrow with the American Bong Freedom Brigade...there is just one of me tho but you can recognize me, I'll be dressed as a Zig Zag

87 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:19:32pm

[Link: occupywallst.org...]

88 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:19:49pm

Good Afternoon Lizards!
I know money doesn't buy happiness...
But I don't mind crying in my private jet...
/

89 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:20:53pm

re: #85 Obdicut

I've got to say I'm surprised. I didn't expect organized labor to get involved.

It does make sense, though. The GOP really is trying to absolutely destroy unions in this country, and obviously that's being done to 'benefit' (in a short-sighted way) corporations.

No doubt the anti-Union move is supported by

grassroots organizations of True Patriots who value liberty and freedom.

90 RadicalModerate  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:21:15pm

re: #81 HoosierHoops

The U.S. Supreme Court said Thursday that Texas can't enforce an abortion/sonogram law passed by the state legislature last summer while the measure is under appeal,

Isn't that SOP for courts? That is the extent of the ruling as far as I can tell..
Who knows what the appeal will do?
It should be shot down in appeal just by the stupidity rule...

Not always. There are many instances where a recently-passed legislation was allowed to go into force while under appeal.

A good example of this on the federal level would be the Defense of Marriage Act.

91 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:21:29pm

re: #87 Gus 802

[Link: occupywallst.org...]

and it keeps growing and growing...

92 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:22:11pm

re: #91 darthstar

and it keeps growing and growing...

I love it! Thought it was going to peter out. But it really is growing.

93 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:22:58pm

re: #91 darthstar

and it keeps growing and growing...

what?...another Mastiff joke?

95 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:23:11pm

re: #88 HoosierHoops

Good Afternoon Lizards!
I know money doesn't buy happiness...
But I don't mind crying in my private jet...
/

The sage poet David Lee Roth (cough) once said 'Money won't buy you happiness - but it'll buy you a boat big enough that you can sail right up next to it.'

96 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:23:45pm

re: #93 albusteve

what?...another Mastiff joke?

Go spank your chihuahua.

97 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:24:22pm

10: Democrats do something.
20: Respond with outrage and racial slurs.
30: Go to 10.

98 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:24:34pm

re: #96 darthstar

Is that supposed to be a euphemism?

//

99 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:25:06pm

re: #92 Gus 802

I love it! Thought it was going to peter out. But it really is growing.

The drummer for the band I play with in the city has been going down there a couple of times a week since the protest started. He's pretty amazed that the crowds have been slowly and steadily growing, not shrinking.

Think the money guys are getting nervous yet?

100 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:25:15pm

Okay, time to get on home so I can get ready for Emmylou Harris tonight. Whoo-hoo!

Steve, you can hold mastiff for me. :)

Play nice, everyone...I'll probably see you all again before I head to the Mountain Winery later.

101 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:26:00pm

re: #98 ProLifeLiberal

Is that supposed to be a euphemism?

//

I saw a woman disciplining her little dog today and thought, "Is she spanking her chihuahua"...now it's on the internet, and soon will be more popular than santorum.

102 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:26:27pm

re: #97 jamesfirecat

10: Democrats do something.
20: Respond with outrage and racial slurs.
30: Go to 10.

That's so basic.

103 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:26:48pm

re: #100 darthstar

Okay, time to get on home so I can get ready for Emmylou Harris tonight. Whoo-hoo!

Steve, you can hold mastiff for me. :)

Play nice, everyone...I'll probably see you all again before I head to the Mountain Winery later.

Have a great time.. Where is Mountain Winery?

104 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:28:33pm

re: #99 makeitstop

The drummer for the band I play with in the city has been going down there a couple of times a week since the protest started. He's pretty amazed that the crowds have been slowly and steadily growing, not shrinking.

Think the money guys are getting nervous yet?

no, why would they?

105 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:29:16pm

re: #92 Gus 802

I love it! Thought it was going to peter out. But it really is growing.

"It's not like the Arab Spring!"

106 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:30:33pm

Now available: 4 Legged Audio Systems.
I comes wif two subwoofers

107 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:31:29pm

re: #105 laZardo

I wonder though....

We have an overall unemployment rate very similar to Egypt and Syria's, youth unemployment is also similar in numbers. In addition, we have a high concentration of wealth, and several disaffected classes in the nation.

I wouldn't count anything out.

108 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:31:42pm

re: #106 BigPapa

Now available: 4 Legged Audio Systems.
I comes wif two subwoofers

Pit Bulls!
run!

109 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:31:55pm

re: #106 BigPapa
That is cute.

110 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:32:14pm

re: #107 ProLifeLiberal

I wonder though...

We have an overall unemployment rate very similar to Egypt and Syria's, youth unemployment is also similar in numbers. In addition, we have a high concentration of wealth, and several disaffected classes in the nation.

I wouldn't count anything out.

Like martial law. Oh yeah. This shit's gonna get fun.

111 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:32:57pm

re: #104 albusteve

no, why would they?

Because they by and large caused this recession.

Because they steal from the poor and give to the rich.

I hope they're feeling nervous. And even if nothing comes out of this some day it will grow and people across the land will finally decide that they are indeed mad as hell and won't take it anymore.

112 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:33:37pm

re: #110 laZardo

Like martial law. Oh yeah. This shit's gonna get fun.

Yeah. Best for Americans to "vote for change."

//

Yeah right.

113 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:33:49pm

re: #110 laZardo

If we got to the point of Martial Law, that would make things worse.

Having a wide-scale Martial Law in the US would result in shenanigans, for reasons that I can't explain due to mental block.

114 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:34:48pm

BBL
re: #99 makeitstop

The drummer for the band I play with in the city has been going down there a couple of times a week since the protest started. He's pretty amazed that the crowds have been slowly and steadily growing, not shrinking.

Think the money guys are getting nervous yet?

Rock drummers are cool, but if the NYFD Pipe Band shows up, the shit gets serious.

Youtube Video
115 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:35:25pm

re: #111 Gus 802

And if something happened here, it might back-flush to the Gulf. If the government supporting the despots in SA and Bahrain (among others) looks weak, a revolt might occur.

116 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:36:43pm

re: #115 ProLifeLiberal

And if something happened here, it might back-flush to the Gulf. If the government supporting the despots in SA and Bahrain (among others) looks weak, a revolt might occur.

Now all that's left is what'll happen if China and/or Russia decide to try to move into the vacuum.

117 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:36:47pm

re: #106 BigPapa

Now available: 4 Legged Audio Systems.
I comes wif two subwoofers

Is that a pic of a Howard Stern listener? // sorry

118 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:37:00pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Because they by and large caused this recession.

Because they steal from the poor and give to the rich.

I hope they're feeling nervous. And even if nothing comes out of this some day it will grow and people across the land will finally decide that they are indeed mad as hell and won't take it anymore.

well that oughta do it...they should be protesting at the Capital in DC then....they write the rules, Wall Street just rakes in the dough to send back down to Washington...they are merely the middle men that feed the DC plutocrats, that's where the rot is, not NYC

119 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:37:37pm

There will be no martial law or widespread protests for the same reason there won't be any Tea Party uprising - people are comfortable, fed, and entertained.

Now, that said, I saw recently that for the first time, the wealth distribution in the US is fully bimodal - a huge number of very poor, and a few very, very rich. The middle class is virtually nonexistent. It's so striking that companies that have traditionally marketed to the middle class (Proctor and Gamble, etc.) are having to change their strategies to market to the very poor, while others are going out of business or changing to market boutique-like to the ultra rich. This is the same sort of wealth distribution you see in Mexico and other 'poor' countries.

120 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:39:27pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Because they by and large caused this recession.

Because they steal from the poor and give to the rich.

I hope they're feeling nervous. And even if nothing comes out of this some day it will grow and people across the land will finally decide that they are indeed mad as hell and won't take it anymore.

Oh Gus...Are you saying Wall Street steals from the poor? Man the complexity of bundled real estate deals..Sub prime loans, To many aggressive 401k investments.. Jeez it is so multi level to be beyond the average person..
How are you doing bro? Hope today finds you well

121 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:39:42pm

re: #119 Renaissance_Man

That's what has been happening in the Middle East for some time though. Don't expect this to continue on forever. Eventually, something will happen.

122 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:40:36pm

re: #77 Sergey Romanov

Not bad: Image: Screen_Shot_2011-09-29_at_1.31.03_PM.png

That's the one I saw on facebook without the illustration pointing out. We've gone from no new taxes to no taxes period heh. I hope these people like driving on mud because those roads don't get maintained on their own.

123 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:40:45pm

re: #58 albusteve

I HIGHLY recommend you read Deep Blues by Robert Palmer...the definitive history of the earliest country blues...cheap from Amazon, and a easy short read

A good listening supplement is a "From Spiritials to Swing" box set. Haven't heard this particular one but it's only $16.99 at Amazon [Link: www.amazon.com...]

One man who really did a lot of the groundwork for bringing the Spirituals and Slave Songs into national prominence HT Burleigh. Worth looking into.

124 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:42:03pm

re: #116 laZardo

If we had something happen in the US, all heck breaks loose. Russia and China have their own issues, though Russia's are more immediate.

China has all sorts of Intermediate to Long Term Problems (10+ Years) that will eventually cause the PRC trouble.

125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:43:08pm

re: #105 laZardo

"It's not like the Arab Spring!"

Well it's not...

126 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:43:33pm

re: #125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well it's not...

...yet.

127 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:43:35pm

re: #118 albusteve

well that oughta do it...they should be protesting at the Capital in DC then...they write the rules, Wall Street just rakes in the dough to send back down to Washington...they are merely the middle men that feed the DC plutocrats, that's where the rot is, not NYC

That's exactly what the corporations and the multi-nationals want you to think. Nope. The seat of power in this country lies in Wall Street. Money feeds the lobbyists and the revolving door that creates policy. Wall Street, and other seats of financial power in this country is the brain of the plutocracy.

128 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:44:16pm

We have to get the money out of our politics.

129 Gus  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:44:16pm

Heh. I'll go now. Didn't expect much support in here. Later.

130 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:45:22pm

re: #106 BigPapa

Now available: 4 Legged Audio Systems.
I comes wif two subwoofers

Dear god, the cuteness. It vaporized my strategic reserve of wry cynicism.

131 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:46:25pm

re: #129 Gus 802

I'm a Nordic-Style Social Democrat. I'm all for making Wall Street uncomfortable.

132 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:47:50pm

re: #123 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A good listening supplement is a "From Spiritials to Swing" box set. Haven't heard this particular one but it's only $16.99 at Amazon [Link: www.amazon.com...]

One man who really did a lot of the groundwork for bringing the Spirituals and Slave Songs into national prominence HT Burleigh. Worth looking into.

thanks...I intend to try and expand my interest into the rise of pre-war black entertainment of all sorts...it interests me...the black movies of the 30's, people such as Calloway and Pearl Bailey...Tin Pan Ally people, Armstrong...famous, wealthy entertainers that had to function under repressive Jim Crow...BB King was another....it's a hell of a story of a deeply divided America...I need to get on it...I want to learn more

133 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:48:56pm

re: #130 The Ghost of a Flea

Dear god, the cuteness. It vaporized my strategic reserve of wry cynicism.

No kidding, that can melt the hardest of cynics. Plus I'm an audio guy so it gets the geek cred on top of that.

134 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:49:22pm

re: #131 ProLifeLiberal

I'm a Nordic-Style Social Democrat. I'm all for making Wall Street uncomfortable.

I think its counter productive to our economy

135 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:49:41pm

re: #133 BigPapa

No kidding, that can melt the hardest of cynics. Plus I'm an audio guy so it gets the geek cred on top of that.

Lack of cynicism is easily cured by watching Sarah Palin clips.

136 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:49:44pm

re: #131 ProLifeLiberal

I'm a Nordic-Style Social Democrat. I'm all for making Wall Street uncomfortable.

And at the same time for the kind of "intervention" that would benefit those kind of people?

137 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:49:52pm

Heartless sons of bitches...

House Republicans are attaching controversial cuts and policy measures to legislation required to run the biggest domestic department in the federal government, and if they don't back off there will likely be, you guessed it, another government shutdown fight.

Already, Democrats in both chambers are saying a draft of the House's Labor/Health and Human Services appropriations bill is dead on arrival, because it contains deep cuts to heating assistance for the poor, requires the repeal of a major provision of the health care law that will help provide assistance for disabled people, halts implementation of the entire law until the Supreme Court determines the constitutionality of its individual insurance mandate, and slashes Planned Parenthood and public broadcasting. Just for starters.

138 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:50:26pm

re: #127 Gus 802

That's exactly what the corporations and the multi-nationals want you to think. Nope. The seat of power in this country lies in Wall Street. Money feeds the lobbyists and the revolving door that creates policy. Wall Street, and other seats of financial power in this country is the brain of the plutocracy.

the laws originate in Congress...it's not hard to see the pimps are in DC and the whores are in NYC...you have to attack the source

139 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:51:12pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

I think its counter productive to our economy

Yes, it is only right that we bow and scrape before our masters. Well said.

140 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:52:27pm

re: #138 albusteve

the laws originate in Congress...it's not hard to see the pimps are in DC and the whores are in NYC...you have to attack the source

The reverse view can be argued. Why do you think so many politicians are kissing the rings of the Koch brothers? There's money in it for them.

So... in that scenario, who's the pimp and who's the whore?

141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:52:34pm

Nah, not at all. OWS isn't protesting corrupt dictator who meetcares them with tanks and guns, they're protesting corrupt business practices carried out by new- and old-money aristocrats. World of difference, there.

re: #126 laZardo

...yet.

142 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:53:11pm

re: #137 makeitstop

Heartless sons of bitches...

How does cutting from the disabled help anyone? Sigh, and this is actually the party that signed the Americans With Disabilites Act in to law. I wouldn't have been a Republican in the 90's but damn they just keep on devolving more and more.

143 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:53:47pm

re: #140 makeitstop

The reverse view can be argued. Why do you think so many politicians are kissing the rings of the Koch brothers? There's money in it for them.

So... in that scenario, who's the pimp and who's the whore?

it's all about the law...blame whoever you want, but the law rules and that comes from DC

144 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:53:54pm

re: #136 laZardo

Norway, Sweden, and Denmark went all in on Libya. Two of them of exhausted ammo (Sweden hasn't). Certainly, western companies will get gains off the war. However, I'm more concerned for the Libyan people.

145 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:55:06pm

re: #144 ProLifeLiberal

Norway, Sweden, and Denmark went all in on Libya. Two of them of exhausted ammo (Sweden hasn't). Certainly, western companies will get gains off the war. However, I'm more concerned for the Libyan people.

They'll be the corporations' new clients. And Norway can't supply the rest of Scandinavia with just its own oil supply.

146 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:55:20pm

re: #127 Gus 802

This may be changing my mind on that very point.

147 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:55:53pm

re: #143 albusteve

it's all about the law...blame whoever you want, but the law rules and that comes from DC

..and the guys writing the laws have money in their pockets with that Koch brothers stank all over it.

Who are they writing the laws for? Not me, I don't have enough money for their tastes to get their attention.

148 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:56:46pm

re: #139 JasonA

Yes, it is only right that we bow and scrape before our masters. Well said.

Well...I don't know economics.. Wall Street isn't my Master...I've never invested a dime in Wall Street...I have a corporate pension.. I do not have a 401k plan...Since I got out of college I have always taken 10% of my pay and put it in Savings....From the days of making 3.35 hour to now making pretty good cash.. I put 10% away for rainy days.. Screw Wall Street investors..

149 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:57:53pm

BTW- it's funny how we hear from Republicans how raising taxes on the wealthy is class warfare but the shit they do in cutting funds from people despite what they say benefit from programs isn't? I'm for cutting waste, I am not for cutting just cuz.

150 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:58:38pm

re: #145 laZardo

I'll wait and see what the TNC and the successor government do first. In any case, I see no huge case to be cynical on Norway and Sweden. Norway is in oil up to their eyeballs, and Sweden was a country that, before Libya, hadn't done an aggressive military action in 197 years. There were some big issues in the interim.

151 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 3:58:51pm

re: #147 makeitstop

..and the guys writing the laws have money in their pockets with that Koch brothers stank all over it.

Who are they writing the laws for? Not me, I don't have enough money for their tastes.

there you have it...waterboard Barney Frank and you'll find the answers...the money pipeline runs both ways, that's pretty obvious

152 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:00:24pm
153 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:01:54pm

re: #147 makeitstop

..and the guys writing the laws have money in their pockets with that Koch brothers stank all over it.

Who are they writing the laws for? Not me, I don't have enough money for their tastes.

there you have it...waterboard Barney Frank and chances are excellent you'll find alot of dirt..the money pipeline runs both ways, that's obvious

154 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:02:20pm

re: #141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The powerful interests effectively are the dictatorship. And sooner or later it won't just be that one short-tempered officer with the mace.

155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:02:55pm

Yeah I remember being really jealous that you got to see Calloway and Bailey in Hello Dolly! Lucky!!

Black entertainment in that time period is my other hobby [been working on some stuff in my spare time that brings together my religion OCD w/the entertainment one] so any time you're up for talking about it, I am.

I need to get stronger on Tin Pan Alley and Yiddish theatre of the era, too. Lots going on.

re: #132 albusteve

thanks...I intend to try and expand my interest into the rise of pre-war black entertainment of all sorts...it interests me...the black movies of the 30's, people such as Calloway and Pearl Bailey...Tin Pan Ally people, Armstrong...famous, wealthy entertainers that had to function under repressive Jim Crow...BB King was another...it's a hell of a story of a deeply divided America...I need to get on it...I want to learn more

156 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:04:03pm
157 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:05:25pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

How does cutting from the disabled help anyone? Sigh, and this is actually the party that signed the Americans With Disabilites Act in to law. I wouldn't have been a Republican in the 90's but damn they just keep on devolving more and more.

If they cut that heating aid and we end up having a severe Winter, people will die.

And they will not stop going after the poor. SMFH.

158 Kronocide  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:06:06pm

The new meme to come from Solyndra: lobbyists working in the green industry are tied close to fundraising for candidates supporting green government initiatives.

My gut reaction is tu quoque: energy and ag have been doing this for decades.

159 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:08:00pm

re: #158 BigPapa

The new meme to come from Solyndra: lobbyists working in the green industry are tied close to fundraising for candidates supporting green government initiatives.

My gut reaction is tu quoque: energy and ag have been doing this for decades.

Yeah, but it's okay for Big Oil and Monsanto because fuck you that's why.

160 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:12:31pm

re: #141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Nah, not at all. OWS isn't protesting corrupt dictator who meetcares them with tanks and guns, they're protesting corrupt business practices carried out
by new- and old-money aristocrats. World of difference, there.

Lol "meetcares"...

Autocorrect/pimf fail.

161 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:18:08pm
162 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:19:13pm

re: #157 makeitstop

If they cut that heating aid and we end up having a severe Winter, people will die.

And they will not stop going after the poor. SMFH.

I don't doubt you. I was never that big on the GOP in the first place but they sicken me now.

163 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:19:52pm

Good damn it, my computer is being special right now.

To me, it didn't look like the comments had submitted.

Charles, can you delete the last 3 comments of mine please?

164 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:20:48pm

re: #157 makeitstop

If they cut that heating aid and we end up having a severe Winter, people will die.

And they will not stop going after the poor. SMFH.

It's their fault they're poor...

165 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:21:22pm

re: #163 ProLifeLiberal

Good damn it, my computer is being special right now.

To me, it didn't look like the comments had submitted.

Charles, can you delete the last 3 comments of mine please?

Don't worry about it...when we hit 10 million comments, it will give Breitbart something to point at and claim they weren't all real.

166 Kragar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:24:22pm

How did my afternoon go? We got assigned by our management to assist another group who didn't want our help. They waste 4 hours configuring our equipment only for us to find out there were security settings we don't have access to which stopped everything we tried to do. In the end, they took an additional 15 minutes and did the items they had given us.

Net effect = our assistance wasted 4 hours of their time, killed 4 hours of time we could have been working on our job for a grand total of 40 lost man hours because of stupid managerial decisions.

I need something to break.

167 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:25:44pm

re: #165 darthstar

My 3 year old laptop is beginning to act its age. That's not a good thing.

168 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:27:07pm

re: #167 ProLifeLiberal

My 3 year old laptop is beginning to act its age. That's not a good thing.

Can you add more ram?

169 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:27:48pm

Save a pretzel for the gas jets.


Youtube Video
170 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:29:20pm

re: #168 JasonA

Can you add more ram?


???

171 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:29:27pm

Feh, doom/gloom. Getting killed by your own government is not the same as getting maced at a protest.

Neither should be happening, but one really isn't comparable to the other.

Instead of comparing themselves to other movements, I think their credibility would go up if they embraced their own identity, but that's just one opinion.

re: #154 laZardo

The powerful interests effectively are the dictatorship. And sooner or later it won't just be that one short-tempered officer with the mace.

172 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:32:18pm

re: #170 darthstar


???

-.-

173 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:36:14pm

Charles Pierce makes a great point:

For example, there is nothing that proves the essential fraudulence of the trope that the Tea Party “Movement” is some sort of spontaneous uprising, and not simply the well-funded re-branding of right-wing Republicanism aimed at a new crop of rubes, than the fact that there is little or no Tea Party presence on Wall Street. That is where the people who created the financial crisis work. That’s the scene of the crime. The wreckage of so many lives emanates from there, not from Washington. But the Tea Party is far more concerned with making sure that the Kenyan usurper in the White House gets run out of town on a rail, and the Tea Party’s heroes are roaming the landscape, talking rot, while the real villains are still yapping about how hard things are all over the place.

Seriously. Where's the TP brigade? Prolly posting racist comments over at Fox Nation.

174 Kragar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:36:18pm

80% of Evangelicals had premarital sex as opposed to 88% of the rest of us.

One of the biggest surprises was a December 2009 study, conducted by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, which included information on sexual activity.

While the study’s primary report did not explore religion, some additional analysis focusing on sexual activity and religious identification yielded this result: 80 percent of unmarried evangelical young adults (18 to 29) said that they have had sex – slightly less than 88 percent of unmarried adults, according to the teen pregnancy prevention organization.

Yeah, those abstinence only programs sure are doing a whole lot. Good job guys.

175 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:36:48pm

My 2 cents on the Outrageous outrage of the NY cop mace incident. I have little or no sympathy for the protesters. The cops were in the process of making an arrest and the protesters were getting into the street and blocking traffic. They have a right to protest but they don't have a right to block traffic. Other citizens were going to their jobs, visiting their family. Emergency vehicles need to transport sick people to the hospital and put out fires. The protesters have no right to interfere with freedom of movement of their fellow citizens.

176 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:39:16pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

My 2 cents on the Outrageous outrage of the NY cop mace incident. I have little or no sympathy for the protesters. The cops were in the process of making an arrest and the protesters were getting into the street and blocking traffic. They have a right to protest but they don't have a right to block traffic. Other citizens were going to their jobs, visiting their family. Emergency vehicles need to transport sick people to the hospital and put out fires. The protesters have no right to interfere with freedom of movement of their fellow citizens.

So there was traffic and a fire and an accident and people visiting their families, right there in that particular spot?
///

Seriously, though - the cop's got a prior record of anger issues. It's fair game to take a look at this, IMO.

177 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:39:38pm

re: #69 Obdicut

None of that had anything to do with genetics, though.

Actually it has a lot to do with genetics. both as restrictor and enhancer of communal tendencies.

I'm not saying that humans always help other people under any circumstances, which is the barrier you've now thrown up.

Humans help one another. We're a communal species. If we don't, we die. There aren't any-- or are extremely rare-- individual humans who survive on their own.

This is absolutely true.

178 Kragar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:41:02pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

My 2 cents on the Outrageous outrage of the NY cop mace incident. I have little or no sympathy for the protesters. The cops were in the process of making an arrest and the protesters were getting into the street and blocking traffic. They have a right to protest but they don't have a right to block traffic. Other citizens were going to their jobs, visiting their family. Emergency vehicles need to transport sick people to the hospital and put out fires. The protesters have no right to interfere with freedom of movement of their fellow citizens.

Wishing some cops were around to mace the protestors when I had to take my daughter into the clinic a few years ago.

179 darthstar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:42:41pm

Okay...time to go...Happy 5772 everyone.

180 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:43:03pm

re: #173 makeitstop

Charles Pierce makes a great point:

Seriously. Where's the TP brigade? Prolly posting racist comments over at Fox Nation.

There are there. Not the rank and file Fox News viewers but the real intellectual core of the Tea Party is very active in the Wall street protests.
I Heart #OccupyWallStreet

People demonstrating their support for libertarian presidential candidate Ron Paul were as prominent as anyone.

You'll notice a lot of "end the Fed" signs in the protests. A common cause with the Tea Party. Palin even started adopting language about "crony capitalism" and "corporitism" recently. The Tea PArty is there in spirit but the elderly Fox viewers are staying home.

181 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:43:21pm

re: #174 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

80% of Evangelicals had premarital sex as opposed to 88% of the rest of us.

Yeah, those abstinence only programs sure are doing a whole lot. Good job guys.

Around here, since my own HS days a decade and a half ago, the abstinence program actually provided an excuse for premarital sex, since kids would argue that "...well, this is the person I love, and that's who you told me to wait for. We'll totally be married in a few years...."

182 Kragar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:44:21pm

re: #181 The Ghost of a Flea

Around here, since my own HS days a decade and a half ago, the abstinence program actually provided an excuse for premarital sex, since kids would argue that "...well, this is the person I love, and that's who you told me to wait for. We'll totally be married in a few years..."

I still love the Saddlebackers.

183 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:45:45pm

re: #177 b_sharp

Dude, the selfish gene is NOT about genes promoting selfish behavior. The selfish gene is a book that argues that the gene, not the individual, is the level of selection. It's true. It has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Both selfishness and altruism can be genetically coded.

If all you're talking about is the explanation for altruism being kin-related, that existed long before the Selfish Gene; what the Selfish Gene did was show that a genetic trait like altruism could encourage self-replication even across otherwise very genetically distinct individuals.

If you have a gene that codes for "help others who you see helping others", then that gene is only looking for that, not for the kinship. Likewise, it would also result in a benefit to a gene coding for "help others", which means those genes would be selected for-- again, even if there's no kinship relationship there.

That specific behavior would have nothing to do, for example, with the 100 person group you cited above; it'd be a rule that would violate that boundary, providing a way to act altruistically to strangers with no kinship.

184 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:47:36pm

re: #178 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wishing some cops were around to mace the protestors when I had to take my daughter into the clinic a few years ago.

Lefty protesters act like self centered children and that their "cause" is worth disrupting other people's lives. I was caught on a bridge here in Portland a few years ago in one of the anti-war protests. The Lefties shut down all traffic, I was 2 hours late for work but was heartbroken to see an ambulance with lights and sirens blaring unable to move. It took about an hour for that ambulance to get over the bridge, Someone quite possibly died because these spoiled children decided to block traffic to play out their Che fantasies.

185 Kragar  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:51:40pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Lefty protesters act like self centered children and that their "cause" is worth disrupting other people's lives. I was caught on a bridge here in Portland a few years ago in one of the anti-war protests. The Lefties shut down all traffic, I was 2 hours late for work but was heartbroken to see an ambulance with lights and sirens blaring unable to move. It took about an hour for that ambulance to get over the bridge, Someone quite possibly died because these spoiled children decided to block traffic to play out their Che fantasies.

My incident was with Wingnuts. They took up all the parking spaces around a medical clinic where one doctor conducted abortions and screamed at all the people trying to get in that the place was full of baby killers. Yeah, my 2 year old daughter really needed to hear that when she was sick and I was trying to get her in on an emergency check up.

Cocksuckers.

186 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:51:59pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Lefty protesters act like self centered children and that their "cause" is worth disrupting other people's lives. I was caught on a bridge here in Portland a few years ago in one of the anti-war protests. The Lefties shut down all traffic, I was 2 hours late for work but was heartbroken to see an ambulance with lights and sirens blaring unable to move. It took about an hour for that ambulance to get over the bridge, Someone quite possibly died because these spoiled children decided to block traffic to play out their Che fantasies.

Its hardly only left wing protesters who ever feel like a just cause allows them to disrupt others lives without guilt, or are you not familiar with all the anti-abortion people who have tired to create human mobs around doctors offices?

187 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:52:41pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Lefty protesters act like self centered children and that their "cause" is worth disrupting other people's lives. I was caught on a bridge here in Portland a few years ago in one of the anti-war protests. The Lefties shut down all traffic, I was 2 hours late for work but was heartbroken to see an ambulance with lights and sirens blaring unable to move. It took about an hour for that ambulance to get over the bridge, Someone quite possibly died because these spoiled children decided to block traffic to play out their Che fantasies.

it's a very thin line, just a split second and things can go very bad with a mob...I agree with you entirely....protests are a part of the landscape, not dominant

188 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:56:27pm

Children....
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
A skateboard and a freshly bought book on anarchism. How is this more serious than the Tea Party?

189 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:56:30pm

re: #186 jamesfirecat

Its hardly only left wing protesters who ever feel like a just cause allows them to disrupt others lives without guilt, or are you not familiar with all the anti-abortion people who have tired to create human mobs around doctors offices?

nobody says it was...altho I think the left has the far darker history...I go back to the VN war protests...talk about people out of control, and the cops were not so PC back then...smashing and burning is pretty rad

190 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 4:58:22pm

re: #189 albusteve

nobody says it was...altho I think the left has the far darker history...I go back to the VN war protests...talk about people out of control, and the cops were not so PC back then...smashing and burning is pretty rad

I'll trade a darker history for a brighter future/present any day of the week.

191 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:00:06pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Protesters act like self centered children and that their "cause" is worth disrupting other people's lives. I was caught on a bridge here in Portland a few years ago in one of the anti-war protests. The Lefties shut down all traffic, I was 2 hours late for work but was heartbroken to see an ambulance with lights and sirens blaring unable to move. It took about an hour for that ambulance to get over the bridge, Someone quite possibly died because these spoiled children decided to block traffic to play out their Che fantasies.

FTFY. Anger fortified by entitlement has no ideological zip code.

And I've walked enough people through a PP blockade to be a little miffed about trying to deposit the "disrespect for people trying to live their lives" thing in a partisan fashion. Not that Tea Party people waving guns about the last time I had to do business in a government building was a joy either. And the good Christians that leave me threatening messages for conspiring with Islamists--and they tell me they're good Christians--have actually foregone the physical protests strictly in favor of fucking with people's daily lives.

192 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:01:21pm

re: #187 albusteve

it's a very thin line, just a split second and things can go very bad with a mob...I agree with you entirely...protests are a part of the landscape, not dominant

It's always frustrating to watch riots like the recent ones in the UK, Vancouver, or the ones a few years ago in Seattle with the WTO. I realize mobs can be tricky but I think modern police enforcement is too lax. It really wouldn't take much to get these situations under control.

193 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:02:40pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Children...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
A skateboard and a freshly bought book on anarchism. How is this more serious than the Tea Party?

It's a classic, over 100 years old: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

194 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:04:27pm

re: #190 jamesfirecat

I'll trade a darker history for a brighter future/present any day of the week.

how idealistic, I bet you would get your head caved in in Selma, fight for your life with the cops in Chicago and DC....you sit behind a keyboard while those people fought and died for their conviction...that's the only protest that counts, pain and injury...get out there and bleed, tough guy...Wall Street is not worth it...they look like fools, take it to the feds and make your stand

195 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:06:18pm

re: #192 Killgore Trout

It's always frustrating to watch riots like the recent ones in the UK, Vancouver, or the ones a few years ago in Seattle with the WTO. I realize mobs can be tricky but I think modern police enforcement is too lax. It really wouldn't take much to get these situations under control.

guy attacks you with a molotov cocktail and you have to restrain him with pepper spray....that's bullshit

196 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:06:28pm

re: #193 000G

It's a classic, over 100 years old: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Of course fool could have read it online: [Link: sunsite.berkeley.edu...] [Link: xroads.virginia.edu...] [Link: dwardmac.pitzer.edu...]

Btw, how is a skateboard anywhere near Tea Party silliness (yknow, like bringing automatic weapons to demonstrations)?

197 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:08:03pm

re: #196 000G

Of course fool could have read it online: [Link: sunsite.berkeley.edu...] [Link: xroads.virginia.edu...] [Link: dwardmac.pitzer.edu...]

Btw, how is a skateboard anywhere near Tea Party silliness (yknow, like bringing automatic weapons to demonstrations)?

protest lite....it's fashionable

198 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:08:09pm

re: #194 albusteve

how idealistic, I bet you would get your head caved in in Selma, fight for your life with the cops in Chicago and DC...you sit behind a keyboard while those people fought and died for their conviction...that's the only protest that counts, pain and injury...get out there and bleed, tough guy...Wall Street is not worth it...they look like fools, take it to the feds and make your stand

Some of us don't have enough problems with the current feds to bother protesting against them.

199 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:09:16pm

re: #198 jamesfirecat

Some of us don't have enough problems with the current feds to bother protesting against them.

thought so

200 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:09:44pm

re: #197 albusteve

protest lite...it's fashionable

all modern ideology is part pop culture

nazis bought hugo boss

201 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:11:44pm

I should add that I quit attending protests back in the era of the WTO and the Iraq war ones, because I couldn't convince the organizers to actively denounce black block participants, or to actively train protestors in passive resistance. A couple of years back we had an anarchist enclave wander into the area and join in the I-69 protests. They completely reinforced my disgust with people who lack the discipline to divide up their emotion from the cause they're purportedly organizing for.

I'm generally not a fan of "everybody meets and we all get indignant" type protests. They're often masturbatory in nature. I have huge respect for Gandhi and Dr. King and his cadre, because it couldn't have been easy to organize people so that acted so calmly.

202 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:11:50pm

re: #199 albusteve

thought so

I would have been surprised if you hadn't, I thought I've made my appreciation for the Obama Administration clear (especially considering the alternatives) clear several times over.

203 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:16:32pm

re: #202 jamesfirecat

I would have been surprised if you hadn't, I thought I've made my appreciation for the Obama Administration clear (especially considering the alternatives) clear several times over.

I could care less about BO...your cavalier attitude toward protesting is juvenile...nobody give a crap until you're beat to a pulp on tape or gunned down while minding your own business...if the WS protestors want some attention, then sacrifice somebody...otherwise go home...bunch of new world wimps

204 BishopX  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:24:27pm

re: #192 Killgore Trout

It's always frustrating to watch riots like the recent ones in the UK, Vancouver, or the ones a few years ago in Seattle with the WTO. I realize mobs can be tricky but I think modern police enforcement is too lax. It really wouldn't take much to get these situations under control.

You should take a look at some of the earlier protests where the police enforcement wasn't "lax". People died, often due to blunt force trauma to the head from a billy club.

205 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:26:24pm

re: #201 The Ghost of a Flea

I'm generally not a fan of "everybody meets and we all get indignant" type protests. They're often masturbatory in nature. I have huge respect for Gandhi and Dr. King and his cadre, because it couldn't have been easy to organize people so that acted so calmly.

I think the key difference is the seriousness of the issue being protested and the earnestness of the organizers. Most modern protests in the West are just events to make people feel they're part of something. A way to reinforce a group identity. It's about making the participants feel good about themselves. None of these protests have a serious plan to change what they're protesting against. That goes for the antiwar, wallstreet and tea party protests.

206 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:26:54pm

re: #204 BishopX

You should take a look at some of the earlier protests where the police enforcement wasn't "lax". People died, often due to blunt force trauma to the head from a billy club.

Yeah, protestors should get their heads koshed, otherwise people might be late for work.
////

207 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:28:06pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

It looks like some unions might join in:

On Tuesday, over 700 uniformed pilots, members of the Air Line Pilots Association, took to the streets outside of Wall Street demanding better pay.

On Wednesday night, the executive board of the New York Transit Workers Union (TWU Local 100), which represents the city’s all-important train and bus workers, voted unanimously to support Occupy Wall Street. TWU Local 100 counts 38,000 active members and covers 26,000 retirees, according to its website.[Link: idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

208 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:28:26pm

Serious demonstrations make it into the Italian Commie Top 40:

Youtube Video

(Can't find a translation--you'll get the drift.)

The wind is changing, from the desert to the cities...

209 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:28:28pm

re: #127 Gus 802

That's exactly what the corporations and the multi-nationals want you to think. Nope. The seat of power in this country lies in Wall Street. Money feeds the lobbyists and the revolving door that creates policy. Wall Street, and other seats of financial power in this country is the brain of the plutocracy.

QFT.

210 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:29:28pm

re: #204 BishopX

You should take a look at some of the earlier protests where the police enforcement wasn't "lax". People died, often due to blunt force trauma to the head from a billy club.

would you protect you own life and property?...how?...of you go out and break shit, start fires, steal what's not yours, commit to mayhem that disrupts others lives, create fear and generally be a viking, you can expect to get yourself dead....if that's what's cool then go for it...when you get beat to shit by the cops, it probably isn't for laying in the street quoting Ghandi

211 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:30:02pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

I think the key difference is the seriousness of the issue being protested and the earnestness of the organizers. Most modern protests in the West are just events to make people feel they're part of something. A way to reinforce a group identity. It's about making the participants feel good about themselves. None of these protests have a serious plan to change what they're protesting against. That goes for the antiwar, wallstreet and tea party protests.

I think that the protests in Wisconsin were dealing with a serious issue, and one which the protesters had a clear and actionable plan of protesting against (voting Scott Walker and all those who support his union busting bill out) honestly.

212 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:30:29pm

Just got my hands on a book Caroline Kennedy put together several years ago, Profiles in Courage for Our Time. It gives a really interesting look at a variety of people involved in politics and government who took lots of shit for what they believed in. Some are already well-known, like McCain, Feingold, and Jim Florio, but there are some others I'd never heard of. Obviously, the book has some lefty leanings, but a majority of the profiles at least try to avoid turning it into a conservative vs. liberal thing. Highly recommended.

213 BishopX  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:32:30pm

re: #210 albusteve

would you protect you own life and property?...how?...of you go out and break shit, start fires, steal what's not yours, commit to mayhem that disrupts others lives, create fear and generally be a viking, you can expect to get yourself dead...if that's what's cool then go for it...when you get beat to shit by the cops, it probably isn't for laying in the street quoting Ghandi

There's a big difference between protesting and rioting.

214 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:36:34pm

re: #213 BishopX

There's a big difference between protesting and rioting.

not sure how to interpret you 204 post then...I don't recall anybody ever killed for simply being there...in these times, violence is a natural progression....non violent people don't get their heads bashed in these days

215 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:37:06pm

re: #210 albusteve

would you protect you own life and property?...how?...of you go out and break shit, start fires, steal what's not yours, commit to mayhem that disrupts others lives, create fear and generally be a viking, you can expect to get yourself dead...if that's what's cool then go for it...when you get beat to shit by the cops, it probably isn't for laying in the street quoting Ghandi

I assure you the mild mannered, wooly haired liberals protesting the Iraq War on the Plaza had no intention of smashing the Betsey Johnson and Talbots shops windows.
They already had plans for a vegetarian meal at the Unity Temple.

216 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:37:24pm
MSNBC Video

"[Ron Paul] continued to pound home he's got more donations from active duty military veterans than any other candidate including President Obama."

I've always been wondering about this ever since I first heard it. Is it true? And if so, is the anti-interventionist/anti-war/isolationist platform the (only) explanation?

217 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:37:50pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

I think the key difference is the seriousness of the issue being protested and the earnestness of the organizers. Most modern protests in the West are just events to make people feel they're part of something. A way to reinforce a group identity. It's about making the participants feel good about themselves. None of these protests have a serious plan to change what they're protesting against. That goes for the antiwar, wallstreet and tea party protests.

Exactly. It's group participation buttressing self-identity.

I don't really expect a "plan" from a protest, but I do look at protests as marketing phenomena--you're selling an idea via endorsement, so your self-presentation represents your product. This business of everybody doing their own thing--and quite often, groups with other agendas trying to borrow light--it's stupid and self-indulgent...and from a ruthless ad-agent perspective, is tantamount to hobbling the purported point.

Edited to add I thought the WI teachers were pretty good about this.

218 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:37:59pm

re: #211 jamesfirecat

I think that the protests in Wisconsin were dealing with a serious issue, and one which the protesters had a clear and actionable plan of protesting against (voting Scott Walker and all those who support his union busting bill out) honestly.

This. Protesting against "The Man," like these Wall Street protesters are doing, is little more than lame-ass slacktivism that will accomplish nothing other than making progressives look like fools. The Wisconsin protesters were real, working-class people being scapegoated and shit on by an ambitious new douchebag of a governor. Their anger and desperation was real.

219 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:38:32pm

re: #215 prairiefire

I assure you the mild mannered, wooly haired liberals protesting the Iraq War on the Plaza had no intention of smashing the Betsey Johnson and Talbots shops windows.
They already had plans for a vegetarian meal at the Unity Temple.

Unity Temple egg rolls are to die for, no?

220 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:39:27pm

re: #183 Obdicut

Dude, the selfish gene is NOT about genes promoting selfish behavior. The selfish gene is a book that argues that the gene, not the individual, is the level of selection. It's true. It has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Both selfishness and altruism can be genetically coded.

If all you're talking about is the explanation for altruism being kin-related, that existed long before the Selfish Gene; what the Selfish Gene did was show that a genetic trait like altruism could encourage self-replication even across otherwise very genetically distinct individuals.

If you have a gene that codes for "help others who you see helping others", then that gene is only looking for that, not for the kinship. Likewise, it would also result in a benefit to a gene coding for "help others", which means those genes would be selected for-- again, even if there's no kinship relationship there.

That specific behavior would have nothing to do, for example, with the 100 person group you cited above; it'd be a rule that would violate that boundary, providing a way to act altruistically to strangers with no kinship.

Geez man, I'm not as stupid as I look, or at least I hope that's true. I've not only read the book, I've also read a dozen responses Dawkins has written to misinterpretations of the books title.

My bit (I'm not talking about Dawkins here) had nothing to do with selfishness, nor did it try to argue against the idea of altruistic behavior and our obvious status as social animals. In fact I have pointed out several times on this board how influential our social tendencies have been in our success as a species. It was about the genetic basis for in-group and out-group behaviour and how nuances in the behaviour are tied to distance from the core group and how our social structure extends the range of altruism beyond the limits of the in-group.

The idea that if we have a gene for altruism we will be faithful to the conditions imposed by the gene ignores the influences social structure has on our behaviour.

221 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:39:28pm

re: #219 albusteve

Unity Temple egg rolls are to die for, no?

Their restaurant is called Eden Alley.

222 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:39:45pm

re: #218 Atlas Fails

This. Protesting against "The Man," like these Wall Street protesters are doing, is little more than lame-ass slacktivism that will accomplish nothing other than making progressives look like fools. The Wisconsin protesters were real, working-class people being scapegoated and shit on by an ambitious new douchebag of a governor. Their anger and desperation was real.

I'm also wary of people who identify "finance capital" as the enemy.

223 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:40:43pm

re: #221 prairiefire

Their restaurant is called Eden Alley.

I'll check them out sometime, even if it takes an eternity

224 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:40:44pm

...

225 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:41:11pm

re: #224 Atlas Fails

This. Protesting against "The Man," like these Wall Street protesters are doing, is little more than lame-ass slacktivism that will accomplish nothing other than making progressives look like fools. The Wisconsin protesters were real, working-class people being scapegoated and shit on by an ambitious new douchebag of a governor. The anger and desperation we saw from them was real.

Wow first time I've seen a double post here...

226 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:41:12pm

So, after 5 days of the big D plus virus for my little guy, I called today for an appt. with the pediatrician we have seen for 13 years. They told me he died in July!! God bless Dr. Rodgers.

227 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:43:04pm

re: #222 000G

I'm also wary of people who identify "finance capital" as the enemy.

Anytime a bunch of college kids stage a protest against "capitalism, man," mass eyerolling should commence.

228 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:43:09pm

re: #226 prairiefire

They never got around to inform you of this until now?

229 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:43:35pm

re: #221 prairiefire

Their restaurant is called Eden Alley.

make me wonton with everything

230 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:43:43pm

re: #218 Atlas Fails

This. Protesting against "The Man," like these Wall Street protesters are doing, is little more than lame-ass slacktivism that will accomplish nothing other than making progressives look like fools. The Wisconsin protesters were real, working-class people being scapegoated and shit on by an ambitious new douchebag of a governor. Their anger and desperation was real.

But a few major labor unions are about to throw in in the next few days.

What then? Still 'lame-ass slacktivism?'

Would you includ the 700+ airline pilots who showed up this week in that description?

231 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:43:51pm

re: #218 Atlas Fails

This. Protesting against "The Man," like these Wall Street protesters are doing, is little more than lame-ass slacktivism that will accomplish nothing other than making progressives look like fools. The Wisconsin protesters were real, working-class people being scapegoated and shit on by an ambitious new douchebag of a governor. Their anger and desperation was real.

These unfocused kids are not the people I would have picked to point a finger at the crap the bankers got away with. No one else seems interested.

"You go to demonstrate with the hipsters you have, not the hippies you want"

232 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:44:17pm

How not to have a protest.

Youtube Video

Problem #1: there were no cops there.

Problem #2: if there were good cops available, they would have been there. They knew it was going to happen.

Problem #3: everybody there was looking for a fight

Problem #4: the KKK was armed and willing to shoot

233 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:45:17pm

re: #218 Atlas Fails

This. Protesting against "The Man," like these Wall Street protesters are doing, is little more than lame-ass slacktivism that will accomplish nothing other than making progressives look like fools. The Wisconsin protesters were real, working-class people being scapegoated and shit on by an ambitious new douchebag of a governor. Their anger and desperation was real.

And they ended up getting shat on.

If they could get away with it in Wisconsin, they're sure to continue getting away with it elsewhere. They need to be stopped.

234 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:45:27pm

re: #231 Decatur Deb

I understand one of the protestors' proposals is to reinstate Glass-Steagall, which John McCain was also pushing for, If I recall correctly.

235 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:45:28pm

re: #227 Atlas Fails

Anytime a bunch of college kids stage a protest against "capitalism, man," mass eyerolling should commence.

Not just anti-capital... specifically anti-"finance capital".

Not only is it misguided, it also reminds me too easily of certain radicals...

236 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:45:54pm

Problem #5: The all-white juries didn't convict anyone.

237 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:46:11pm

re: #229 engineer dog

make me wonton with everything

Suppress you wanton yearnings!

238 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:46:42pm

re: #230 makeitstop

But a few major labor unions are about to throw in in the next few days.

What then? Still 'lame-ass slacktivism?'

Would you includ the 700+ airline pilots who showed up this week in that description?

I will say that protests up there will have no effect unless 200k people freeze all of lower Manhattan and effectively shut down the stock exchange...try that

239 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:47:45pm

re: #228 000G

They never got around to inform you of this until now?

There is no mailing list.

240 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:48:03pm

re: #210 albusteve

would you protect you own life and property?...how?...of you go out and break shit, start fires, steal what's not yours, commit to mayhem that disrupts others lives, create fear and generally be a viking, you can expect to get yourself dead...if that's what's cool then go for it...when you get beat to shit by the cops, it probably isn't for laying in the street quoting Ghandi

Ahem:

A lot of Indians were beat to shit for laying in the street and quoting Gandhi.

Indeed, you could summarize the entire Satyagraha movement as: "You will lie on the ground and be beat to shit, but keep lying on the ground and remember this quote from Gandhi."

That protestors can and do suck does not means that individual law enforcement agents don't abuse their power or engage in their own, equal-and-opposite exercise of entitlement to do as they will.

241 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:48:34pm

re: #239 prairiefire

There is no mailing list.

No patient files with adresses, either?

242 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:48:41pm

re: #237 prairiefire

Suppress you wanton yearnings!

I'm actually logged in at a mall (had to take my mom to remit money back to my family in the Philippines) and there's a branch of the Filipino fast-Chinese food chain Chowking. Dammit, you're making me hungry. ;p

243 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:49:31pm

re: #235 000G

Not just anti-capital... specifically anti-"finance capital".

Not only is it misguided, it also reminds me too easily of certain radicals...

Okay, the Godwin is a bit of a stretch...

244 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:49:45pm

re: #230 makeitstop

But a few major labor unions are about to throw in in the next few days.

What then? Still 'lame-ass slacktivism?'

Would you includ the 700+ airline pilots who showed up this week in that description?

It depends what they're protesting against. If they have a beef with a specific company, policy, ect., and have a legitimate chance of affecting change through protest, then no. If they're 21 year-old hipsters who think they've figured out how things work ever since they saw a few Michael Moore movies, then yes.

245 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:51:02pm

re: #243 laZardo

Okay, the Godwin is a bit of a stretch...

How so?

246 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:51:05pm

re: #240 The Ghost of a Flea

Ahem:

A lot of Indians were beat to shit for laying in the street and quoting Gandhi.

Indeed, you could summarize the entire Satyagraha movement as: "You will lie on the ground and be beat to shit, but keep lying on the ground and remember this quote from Gandhi."

That protestors can and do suck does not means that individual law enforcement agents don't abuse their power or engage in their own, equal-and-opposite exercise of entitlement to do as they will.

One could argue that non-violent protest is most (or only) effective when met with violence. And the violence has to be met with general outrage by the larger population that can make the change desired.

247 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:52:03pm

re: #246 wrenchwench

One could argue that non-violent protest is most (or only) effective when met with violence. And the violence has to be met with general outrage by the larger population that can make the change desired.

I'm guessing that's the "sacrifice" argument steve is making.

248 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:52:10pm

FYI: Free Battlefield 3 Beta is out. Lotsa fun.

249 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:52:45pm

re: #245 000G

How so?

I wouldn't think that a majority of the protesters actually believe in TEH ZOG!!!11 conspiracies...

250 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:52:52pm

the sunset behind be is so dramatic, it defies description...it's like this at least 5 times a week this time of year...to the east are black, violent looking clouds rolling off the Sandias and to the west the sun is shining raybeams of light in all directions and the light is a hundred different colors

251 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:53:13pm

Later, lizards.

I have to get the cat out of my drawers.

252 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:53:37pm

re: #250 albusteve

the sunset behind be is so dramatic, it defies description...it's like this at least 5 times a week this time of year...to the east are black, violent looking clouds rolling off the Sandias and to the west the sun is shining raybeams of light in all directions and the light is a hundred different colors

Pennsylvania! It's...uh...raining here.

253 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:53:47pm

re: #248 Amory Blaine

FYI: Free Battlefield 3 Beta is out. Lotsa fun.

Heh. The weird bit is that my personal "forecast" for the Middle East is the creation of the equivalent of BF2's MEC.

254 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:54:09pm

re: #249 laZardo

I wouldn't think that a majority of the protesters actually believe in TEH ZOG!!!11 conspiracies...

I have no clue, to be honest. But I can say that I was surprised by the amount of creepy crawl I saw once I turned over the stone. Where do you get your data on this from?

255 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:54:23pm

re: #251 wrenchwench

Later, lizards.

I have to get the cat out of my drawers.

baibai :3

256 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:54:34pm

re: #246 wrenchwench

One could argue that non-violent protest is most (or only) effective when met with violence. And the violence has to be met with general outrage by the larger population that can make the change desired.

This scene is now a bronze statue group in Birmingham:

Image: 71296-050-6A212E1E.jpg

257 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:55:27pm

re: #241 000G

No patient files with adresses, either?

I think it's a need to know basis as it is a clinic and there is always someone else you can see.
His family has still not told the clinic the cause of death. I am going to guess heart disease as he had a huuuuuge tummy and his pallor was a dark grey the last few times we saw him. He was a good Dr. and settled my worried mommy nerves many times.

258 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:55:37pm

re: #254 000G

The sites covering it mainly. And 4chan, whose anti-Semitism can be so gratuitous that it becomes laughable (and at the same time making you wonder if they just say that for the effect/lulz.)

259 albusteve  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:55:54pm

re: #252 Atlas Fails

Pennsylvania! It's...uh...raining here.

heh....yeah, I'm a Michigander by birth...I get rain...
but the drama here is so spectacular, it's hard to describe

260 laZardo  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:57:59pm

Gotta head back home. brb

261 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:58:09pm

Problem #6, Blacks were not allowed to trstify against whites in most states rights states.

re: #236 wrenchwench

Problem #5: The all-white juries didn't convict anyone.

262 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:58:57pm

Using your debit card for purchases is going to cost more money. Check out this page. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

263 Atlas Fails  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:59:06pm

re: #259 albusteve

heh...yeah, I'm a Michigander by birth...I get rain...
but the drama here is so spectacular, it's hard to describe

Sounds beautiful. I need to make a trip out your way some time.

264 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:59:18pm

re: #258 laZardo

Let me just say I've become very cynical with the amount of unconscious nationalism bubbling in vast parts of "the Left". So much that I mostly don't want to do anything with it.

265 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:59:55pm

re: #238 albusteve

I will say that protests up there will have no effect unless 200k people freeze all of lower Manhattan and effectively shut down the stock exchange...try that

The numbers are growing. Will they reach 200K? I have my doubts.

266 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 5:59:59pm

re: #262 PhillyPretzel

Using your debit card for purchases is going to cost more money. Check out this page. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Next they'll charge to cash your check.

267 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:00:53pm

re: #266 Amory Blaine
Some places already do. :(

268 makeitstop  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:01:57pm

re: #244 Atlas Fails

It depends what they're protesting against. If they have a beef with a specific company, policy, ect., and have a legitimate chance of affecting change through protest, then no. If they're 21 year-old hipsters who think they've figured out how things work ever since they saw a few Michael Moore movies, then yes.

Those pilots are hardly 21 year old hipsters, believe it.

269 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:02:26pm

re: #234 jaunte

I understand one of the protestors' proposals is to reinstate Glass-Steagall, which John McCain was also pushing for, If I recall correctly.

Here's the current status on that:
H.R. 1489, The Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011

H.R. 1489 would repeal certain provisions of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and revive the separation between commercial banking and the securities business, in the manner provided in the Banking Act of 1933, the so-called "Glass-Steagall Act".
(Latest Major Action: 5/2/2011: Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Capital Markets and Government Sponsored Enterprises.)
Text of Bill: [Link: thomas.loc.gov...]

270 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:03:12pm

re: #267 PhillyPretzel

Some places already do. :(

Very many of those hideously-painted checkcashing/payday loan "mom-and-pops" are run by Wells Fargo and BoA.

271 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:03:38pm

re: #264 000G

Let me just say I've become very cynical with the amount of unconscious nationalism bubbling in vast parts of "the Left". So much that I mostly don't want to do anything with it.

What the hell does that mean? It's always been our country as well.

272 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:04:33pm

re: #218 Atlas Fails

This. Protesting against "The Man," like these Wall Street protesters are doing, is little more than lame-ass slacktivism that will accomplish nothing other than making progressives look like fools. The Wisconsin protesters were real, working-class people being scapegoated and shit on by an ambitious new douchebag of a governor. Their anger and desperation was real.

I protested in Madison and Milwaukee. I wish them the best of luck.

273 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:06:04pm

re: #271 prairiefire

What the hell does that mean? It's always been our country as well.

Whose country isn't it?

274 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:06:45pm

re: #273 000G

Whose country isn't it?

The Chinese!!! Oh wait...

275 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:08:04pm

re: #274 Amory Blaine

The Chinese!!! Oh wait...

Gohmert is on the case.

276 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:13:15pm

re: #207 jaunte

It looks like some unions might join in:

Lefties seem to have an affinity for these protests, just like righties are instinctively drawn to the Tea Parties.
From your link....

“Well, actually, the protesters, it’s pretty courageous what they’re doing,” he said, “and it’s brought a new public focus in a different way to what we’ve been saying along. While Wall Street and the banks and the corporations are the ones that caused the mess that’s flowed down into the states and cities, it seems there’s no shared sacrifice. It’s the workers having to sacrifice while the wealthy get away scot-free. It’s kind of a natural alliance with the young people and the students — they’re voicing our message, why not join them? On many levels, our workers feel an affinity with the kids. They just seem to be hanging out there getting the crap beaten out of them, and maybe union support will help them out a little bit.”

Still no clue why airline pilots are protesting banks. They really don't have any common interest with anarchists and Marxists. But again, this is like the Tea Party. Libertarians and Christian dominionists lean in the same political direction and are moths drawn to the same flame.
I'm unhappy with Wall Street bankers too but I have no common cause with Anon, Code Pink and the World Worker's Party.

277 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:14:10pm

re: #272 Amory Blaine

I protested in Madison and Milwaukee. I wish them the best of luck.

I think that was a more genuine cause with more serious organizers than the Wall Street protests.

278 jaunte  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:15:24pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

...it’s brought a new public focus...

Looks like it's an opportunity for everyone to get some camera time, no matter what their issue is.

279 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:16:58pm

re: #278 jaunte

Looks like it's an opportunity for everyone to get some camera time, no matter what their issue is.

It'll be cold soon and the new fall tv shows are starting. This will be gone in a few weeks.

280 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:17:34pm

re: #246 wrenchwench

One could argue that non-violent protest is most (or only) effective when met with violence. And the violence has to be met with general outrage by the larger population that can make the change desired.

Go back to Gandhi himself espousing his concept of the Independence movement. Counter-protest violence was expected, and the discipline of the protestors was to neither defend themselves or back down.

Then again, the Mahatma's specific ideas were a response to how the British tended to present their governance of colonial subjects: as stern but parental, and ultimately in the service of the interests of the colonized. The Satyagraha was quite explicitly built to show the lie of this claim: the issues addressed were not about the betterment of Indians, but the commerce flow between the subcontinent and Britain; since there was no violence, there could be no claim from the Raj that retaliatory actions were necessary as peace-keeping (as they did with both revolts and terrorism); and, most bitingly, the organization of the movement countered British claims that the peoples of Indian were neither civilized nor cohesive, and required an outside agent to maintain them.

Compare this to the rationalizations of Southern racism and Jim Crow, and one understands why Thurman and Rustin, and later King and his allies, saw something powerful in Gandhi's ideas.

The flip side of this, though, is the critique of Gandhi's very rigid position about nonviolence: there are contextual factors that color violence and oppression such that the violent force will not empathize with those suffering. Ergo, your passive resisters might not only all die, but also the moral force of their death would have missed its mark and achieved nothing.

281 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:21:51pm

re: #280 The Ghost of a Flea

But there is the white flash power of American opinion that can be very powerful. "That ain't right. Was anybody hurt?" Guaranteed those sentiments will carry far here.

282 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:37:25pm

re: #281 prairiefire

But there is the white flash power of American opinion that can be very powerful. "That ain't right. Was anybody hurt?" Guaranteed those sentiments will carry far here.

I agree, and I hope they continue carrying far.

What's spooky, though, is that it's always under contest: there are people trying very hard to "other" some group so that they're acceptable targets, so that the general public are less concerned or have rationalizations available when someone gets hurt.

[ETA: look at the people who downplay the victim status of bullied gay kids. Case in point.]

It's sounds weird and a bit counter-intuitive, but it takes effort and work to build and sustain bigotry as a society-wide phenomenon, particularly in a modern world where ethnicity or race isn't alien just by virtue of being elsewhere/little seen.

What freaks me out is that you can still see it work: Rwanda and Burundi should be pants-shitting terrifying to the world, because contrary to the reportage, "Hutu" and "Tutsi" were fast-and-loose ethnic categories belied by generations of intermarriage and shared space. That ugliness was something kept smoldering by French understanding of race science back in the colonial days, then fanned into insane, conspiracy-theory frenzy by a government-run radio show.

283 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:43:19pm

re: #282 The Ghost of a Flea

...snip "Hutu" and "Tutsi" were fast-and-loose ethnic categories belied by generations of intermarriage and shared space. That ugliness was something kept smoldering by French understanding of race science back in the colonial days, then fanned into insane, conspiracy-theory frenzy by a government-run radio show.

There's a Rwandan Limbaugh?

284 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:48:37pm

re: #283 Decatur Deb

There's a Rwandan Limbaugh?

As much as I detest Limbaugh--as my grandpa put it, I wouldn't walk across the street to piss on him if he was on fire--Radio Rwanda had zero dogwhistles.

285 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:23:38pm

re: #55 albusteve

when I visit NOLA I head straight to Congo Square...my own Mecca...
I want to hear the drums, and I swear I do

Have you seen any Mardi Gras Indians perform? I got to see the Creole Wild West once.

Youtube Video
286 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 29, 2011 7:32:05pm

re: #246 wrenchwench

One could argue that non-violent protest is most (or only) effective when met with violence. And the violence has to be met with general outrage by the larger population that can make the change desired.

One could, but it would be an incomplete argument. Non-violence as a mass strategy came much later in the Civil Rights struggle for a lot of reasons. Basically, non-violent protest was employed to expose the complicity of the general population with the bigots, not necessarily outrage them -- the teabag contingent is STILL outraged 50-60 years later, from having been exposed.

We've never really been dependent on the good will of the majority, because who could trust it?

Then, you get guys like the Deacons for Defense.

287 Samsonn  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 3:06:38am

re: #230 makeitstop

To my knowledge, the pilots protest was about an airline merger and didn't have anything to do with the 'Occupy Wall Street' protest.

288 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:38:10am

re: #195 albusteve

guy attacks you with a molotov cocktail and you have to restrain him with pepper spray...that's bullshit

How many times, and when exactly has that happened in the US? Can you give me something better than that to fuel the anger. I googled for it and only came up with a couple incidences, and they weren't in the US.

289 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Sep 30, 2011 7:44:43am

re: #214 albusteve

not sure how to interpret you 204 post then...I don't recall anybody ever killed for simply being there...in these times, violence is a natural progression...non violent people don't get their heads bashed in these days

Bullshit


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