National Review’s Andrew McCarthy Falls for Bogus Breitbart Story - Update: Entire Right Wing Blogosphere Parrots Bogus Story

The arc of a fake outrage
Wingnuts • Views: 45,585

At the National Review, Andrew McCarthy totally falls for Andrew Breitbart’s fake story about Barack Obama appearing at a “rally for the New Black Panther Party” — which was actually the celebration of the 1965 Voting Rights March in Selma, Alabama: Breitbart: Obama Appeared and Marched with New Black Panther Party in 2007 — Photos Included - By Andrew C. McCarthy - The Corner - National Review Online.

At Big Government, Andrew Breitbart reports that, as a presidential candidate in March 2007, then-Senator Barack Obama appeared and marched with members of the New Black Panther Party. Included in Obama’s Panther entourage was Malik Zulu Shabazz, the racist group’s “national chief.” Shabazz was one of the Panthers charged in the voter intimidation case that the Obama/Holder Justice Department dismissed in 2009 — even though the government had already won the case (the Panthers defaulted) and the evidence supporting the civil charges was overwhelming.

This is a shocking story, and a breathtaking indictment of the mainstream media which went out of its way to avoid vetting Obama as a candidate — and to make sure anyone who tried to do due diligence got no sunshine. A candidate who chose to appeared in the company of, say, the KKK, would have provoked relentlessly hostile media coverage and, in short order, have been marginalized as disqualified to hold responsible elective office. As Andrew points out, one of those present with Obama was Najee Muhammed, the Panthers’ “minister of war” who had called for Georgia police officers to be murdered. Yet, the press buried the Obama/Panthers connection. For example, after initially mentioning the presence of the Panthers, NPR omitted Panther references from its subsequent coverage.

McCarthy gives absolutely no indication that he understands this was not a New Black Panther Party event — it was a commemoration of Selma’s “Bloody Sunday,” attended by many other politicians and at least 10,000 people.

Breitbart’s false race-baiting narrative is spreading quickly through the right wing echo chamber.

Related
Andrew Breitbart’s Race-Baiting Fake Outrage Du Jour
UPDATE at 10/3/11 2:10:58 pm

And there they all go.

Ed Morrissey falls for it at Hot Air: Did Obama make a campaign appearance with Malik Shabazz? « Hot Air

Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller shrieks: SHOCK PHOTOS: CANDIDATE OBAMA APPEARED AND MARCHED WITH NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY IN 2007!!! - Atlas Shrugs

Pajamas Media goes all in: The PJ Tatler » Shocking Photos: Barack Obama Appeared and Marched with New Black Panthers in 2007

And of course, Michelle Malkin: Michelle Malkin » Race hustlers of a feather: Obama and the New Black Panther Party

Jump to bottom

416 comments
1 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:53:12pm

Cool...I look forward to getting this emailed to me by my family soon.

2 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:54:17pm

AB and his ilk are like madmen arsonists, dashing about starting fires...they have the upper hand too since such sensitive minions have the brain of a mollusk and the attention span of a toddler

3 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:54:25pm

re: #1 darthstar

Cool...I look forward to getting this emailed to me by my family soon.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who sees some of these things on LGF and thinks "will come through mailbox in 5...4...3..."

4 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:54:32pm

Word (hey, it's a Breitbart thread...I can post about bacon)

5 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:55:04pm

Guilt by association...remember the moaning from teabaggers when this same tactic was used against them?

6 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:56:15pm

re: #1 darthstar

Cool...I look forward to getting this emailed to me by my family soon.

Ugh. I have a ban in place myself. No emails unless it's personal business.

7 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:57:58pm

re: #3 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm glad I'm not the only person who sees some of these things on LGF and thinks "will come through mailbox in 5...4...3..."

I just got emailed the "VP of Proctor & Gamble's open letter to Obama" (with Snopes link! so it's true!)...here's the first few lines of the hateful screed:

You are the thirteenth President under whom I have lived and unlike
Any of the others, you truly scare me.

You scare me because after months of exposure, I know nothing about you.


You scare me because I do not know how you paid for your expensive
Ivy League education and your upscale lifestyle and housing with no
Visible signs of support.

Student loans, asshole....and crack...selling dime bag after dime bag of crack to your crack-whore sister.

I made his font smaller because he's an asshole if he really did write this shit.

8 avanti  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 1:58:47pm

Can Fox News be far behind ?

9 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:00:02pm

re: #7 darthstar

He he that's an old one. I remember that. Ooohh so scary. lol
Who knew all these captains of industry were such pants-pissing pussies.

10 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:00:27pm

Maybe in 45 years I will have the same admiration, no awe, for the people protesting on Wall Street today as I have for the folks who took a stand for racial equality in the 60's.

Okay, there's no chance of that.

11 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:02:48pm

I would expect no less from the man who wrote this:

How Obama Embraces Islam's Sharia Agenda

12 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:03:32pm

re: #7 darthstar

"You scare me because I can't see you. (I can't see you because I put on a blindfold whenever you might be visible.)"

13 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:04:19pm

I guess that makes up for LGF falling for fake stories by Think Progress and the Brady Campaign.

14 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:04:34pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

I would expect no less from the man who wrote this:

How Obama Embraces Islam's Sharia Agenda

W.
T.
F.

I didn't know it's gotten this bad (and laughingly crude).

15 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:04:54pm

re: #13 chunkymonkey

I guess that makes up for LGF falling for fake stories by Think Progress and the Brady Campaign.

Such as?

16 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:05:08pm

By the way, I noticed Geller's book has only three reviews, all glowing. Needs a few others to go with the tags it has, which are more accurate.

17 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:05:42pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

I would expect no less from the man who wrote this:

How Obama Embraces Islam's Sharia Agenda

I guess I was late to the game this morning when I suggested starting a rumor that Obama has arranged his desk to face Mecca for when he signs bills into Sharia Law.

18 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:06:33pm

re: #17 darthstar

I guess I was late to the game this morning when I suggested starting a rumor that Obama has arranged his desk to face Mecca for when he signs bills into Sharia Law.

Noob.

These guys are oldskool.

19 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:06:38pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

By the way, I noticed Geller's book has only three reviews, all glowing. Needs a few others to go with the tags it has, which are more accurate.

They cleaned it up...there used to be a bunch of reviews talking about what a hateful piece of shit it would take to write such drivel...I'm guessing reviews are now blocked on that book.

20 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:06:56pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

By the way, I noticed Geller's book has only three reviews, all glowing. Needs a few others to go with the tags it has, which are more accurate.

Geller's book? 3 reviews?

SILENT MAJORITY!!!!!

21 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:06:59pm

re: #15 Sergey Romanov

Such as?

Like when Think Progress showed those racist signs at Tea Party rallies! Those were leftist plants!!!1!!11ty

22 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:08:10pm

re: #15 Sergey Romanov

He has no examples. Just doing an asspull.

23 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:08:15pm

re: #19 darthstar

They cleaned it up...there used to be a bunch of reviews talking about what a hateful piece of shit it would take to write such drivel...I'm guessing reviews are now blocked on that book.

Was that before the book was released?

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:09:27pm

re: #22 ProLifeLiberal

He has no examples. Just doing an asspull.

He probably left something he thinks is a refutation at the end of one of those threads.
Might as well see what he has in mind.

25 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:09:52pm

re: #22 ProLifeLiberal

Breitbart has a clear trend.

26 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:10:25pm

re: #25 Amory Blaine

????

27 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:11:13pm

re: #8 avanti

Can Fox News be far behind ?

Fox is way too busy highlighting the important stories, with their trademarked fair and balanced approach.

28 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:11:29pm

From a post of mine downstairs:

Yeah but you're talking about a group of people who think the 1965 Voting Rights March WAS a Black Panther rally.

They thought that then, and they think that, today.

29 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:11:34pm

re: #13 chunkymonkey

Hey, you dropped this.

Image: mask6.jpg

30 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:12:03pm

Looks like Rick Perry's racially offensive hunting property "n*****head" is bad news...for Herman Cain:

At RedState, Erick Erickson concluded, "It also seems to be a slander Herman Cain is picking up and running with as a way to get into second place." Glenn Reynolds remarked that until now, Cain's "big appeal is that he's not just another black race-card-playing politician." Over at the Daily Caller, Matt Lewis called Cain's remarks "a cheap shot, and, perhaps a signal that Cain is willing to play the race card against a fellow Republican when it benefits him."

Of course, Erick Erection would jump on the bandwagon of defending Perry...that piece of shit cracker will say anything to get another paid visit to CNN.

31 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:12:18pm

re: #25 Amory Blaine

Breitbart has a clear trend.

Of reporting bullshit. Maybe some research is in order before people run with his stories.

32 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:13:29pm

The entire wingnut blogosphere is now parroting Breitbart's false story.

33 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:13:32pm

re: #31 Amory Blaine

Of reporting bullshit. Maybe some research is in order before people run with his stories.

You get more advertising dollars from airing his stories first, then following the outrage over the fact that you spewed his lies without question...again?...how did THAT happen?

34 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:13:45pm

re: #15 Sergey Romanov

Such as?

1. Pretty much anything TP has to say about the Koch brothers. I'd like to see LGF go head to head with Power Line any day on Think Progress and the Koch Brothers. Power Line at least provides analysis with their posts so that a reader can dig deaper.

2. The recent post at LGF about how the gun manufacturers "lost" 11,000 guns. The source? The Brady Campaign. I had a look at their evidence and it's completely bogus. The BC obviously doesn't know what constitutes a "gun manufacturer" in this country. They also obviously do not know anything about ATF rules for manufacturers. Given that nobody here knows anything about these laws, it is not possible for LGF to critically assess the bullsh*t from BC.

35 KingKenrod  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:15:03pm

This hysteria seems to be entirely timed and invented to bring notice to J. Christian Adams' new book on the New Black Panther intimidation case.

36 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:15:25pm

re: #34 chunkymonkey

Oh, so you support business with Iran.

Come over to reality. It's great here, much better being a Kochsucker.

37 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:15:26pm

re: #34 chunkymonkey

Re:2 - links, evidence?

38 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:15:34pm

re: #34 chunkymonkey

Power Line at least provides analysis with their posts so that a reader can dig deaper.

Watch out. Go too deap and you'll never climb out.

39 erik_t  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:16:29pm

re: #38 Charles

Watch out. Go too deap and you'll never climb out.

I think that's 'derper'.

40 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:16:34pm

re: #30 darthstar

Looks like Rick Perry's racially offensive hunting property "n*****head" is bad news...for Herman Cain:

Of course, Erick Erection would jump on the bandwagon of defending Perry...that piece of shit cracker will say anything to get another paid visit to CNN.

It will also work out very well for Rick Perry, who will be seen as the victim.

The dhimmis are never permitted to talk about their treatment by the superiors. Ever. It victimizes the superiors to do so, by calling their God-granted superiority into question. It's not allowed. It's against God.

41 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:16:51pm

re: #34 chunkymonkey

Re: 1 - any particular LGF story?

42 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:16:57pm

deap or derp?

43 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:17:03pm

re: #34 chunkymonkey

1. Pretty much anything TP has to say about the Koch brothers. I'd like to see LGF go head to head with Power Line any day on Think Progress and the Koch Brothers. Power Line at least provides analysis with their posts so that a reader can dig deaper.

2. The recent post at LGF about how the gun manufacturers "lost" 11,000 guns. The source? The Brady Campaign. I had a look at their evidence and it's completely bogus. The BC obviously doesn't know what constitutes a "gun manufacturer" in this country. They also obviously do not know anything about ATF rules for manufacturers. Given that nobody here knows anything about these laws, it is not possible for LGF to critically assess the bullsh*t from BC.

Enlighten us, oh chunky one, about what really constitutes a gun manufacturer, since you are doubtlessly an expert in the field, and not at all parroting talking points in an attempt to deflect attention from yet another shameless Breitbart lie.

44 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:17:43pm

At RedState, Erick Erickson concluded, "It also seems to be a slander Herman Cain is picking up and running with as a way to get into second place." Glenn Reynolds remarked that until now, Cain's "big appeal is that he's not just another black race-card-playing politician." Over at the Daily Caller, Matt Lewis called Cain's remarks "a cheap shot

i'm gaining weight eating popcorn while i watch the the republican presidential field get all wingnut on each other

45 BongCrodny  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:17:48pm

re: #34 chunkymonkey

1. Pretty much anything TP has to say about the Koch brothers. I'd like to see LGF go head to head with Power Line any day on Think Progress and the Koch Brothers. Power Line at least provides analysis with their posts so that a reader can dig deaper.

PowerLine's scorecard, it should be noted, was compiled by "a reader."

I swoon over their sources, sir.

46 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:18:51pm

re: #32 Charles

The entire wingnut blogosphere is now parroting Breitbart's false story.

Next they'll think Lou Reed's song is a historical document about Obama...

I wanna be black, I wanna be a panther
Have a girlfriend named samantha
And have a stable of foxy whores
...snip...

It's a fun song, actually...didn't get a lot of radio play for some reason though.

Youtube Video
47 BongCrodny  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:19:17pm

re: #38 Charles

Watch out. Go too deap and you'll never climb out.

Unpossible.

48 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:21:29pm

I guess Breitbart's new business plan is to put up a completely fake 'story' every week for his dirt-stupid camp followers (and the rest of the Teahadisphere) to swallow whole.

Buncha rubes.

49 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:21:34pm

From the book proposal for Geller's book:

The book will appeal to readers of The New York Post, the Washington Times,

National Review, the American Spectator, The Weekly Standard, Human Events, American

Thinker, Big Government, Newsmax, and publications in that general ideological range.

At least she knows her market.

The book proposal also says Robert Spencer is an uncredited co-author. I knew she had to have had a lot of help.

50 freetoken  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:22:37pm

re: #48 makeitstop

Heh, it works for Joseph Farah. Most money making schemes are imitated frequently.

51 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:22:52pm

re: #48 makeitstop

I guess Breitbart's new business plan is to put up a completely fake 'story' every week for his dirt-stupid camp followers (and the rest of the Teahadisphere) to swallow whole.

Buncha rubes.

Works every day on FOX, no reason to think it won't in the greater media cult bubble.

53 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:23:02pm

re: #43 Atlas Fails

Enlighten us, oh chunky one, about what really constitutes a gun manufacturer, since you are doubtlessly an expert in the field, and not at all parroting talking points in an attempt to deflect attention from yet another shameless Breitbart lie.

Wow, he's taking quite a while to copy and paste from wikipedia.

54 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:23:33pm

re: #46 darthstar

Next they'll think Lou Reed's song is a historical document about Obama...

It's a fun song, actually...didn't get a lot of radio play for some reason though.

[Video]

Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter carried him....period

55 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:25:05pm

re: #43 Atlas Fails

People here actually pointed out, I believe, that you count as a manufacturer if you do restoration work. There was a lively discussion about how accurate the numbers are, here.

Which makes what chunkymonkey is saying even more bizarre. Didn't bother to read the threads, I guess?

56 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:26:30pm

re: #48 makeitstop

I guess Breitbart's new business plan is to put up a completely fake 'story' every week for his dirt-stupid camp followers (and the rest of the Teahadisphere) to swallow whole.

Buncha rubes.

it's hardly a new plan and it works quite well...calling them rubes is not at all accurate...I consider AB a cultural menace, hardly some buffoon in the loose

57 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:26:53pm

re: #13 chunkymonkey

I guess that makes up for LGF falling for fake stories by Think Progress and the Brady Campaign.

Nobody is perfect, but you are not being specific about the supposed LGF failings.

58 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:27:26pm

re: #55 Obdicut

People here actually pointed out, I believe, that you count as a manufacturer if you do restoration work. There was a lively discussion about how accurate the numbers are, here.

Which makes what chunkymonkey is saying even more bizarre. Didn't bother to read the threads, I guess?

I love how he thinks it makes a difference whether or not someone who 'lost' guns counted as a 'manufacturer' for ATF and tax purposes. It's still an unaccounted for killing machine, dumbass.

59 Artist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:27:35pm

re: #57 Sergey Romanov

I believe he means anything he doesn't agree with, reality be damned.

60 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:29:21pm

re: #58 Atlas Fails

I love how he thinks it makes a difference whether or not someone who 'lost' guns counted as a 'manufacturer' for ATF and tax purposes. It's still an unaccounted for killing machine, dumbass.

no big deal...just a misunderstanding
lose them, sell them to the cartels, whatever...nothing to see

61 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:29:31pm

BREAKING! CHURCHILL ATTENDED A MEETING WITH A BLOODTHIRSTY TYRANT STALIN! NEW PHOTO EVIDENCE! DEVELOPING...

62 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:29:53pm

re: #55 Obdicut

People here actually pointed out, I believe, that you count as a manufacturer if you do restoration work. There was a lively discussion about how accurate the numbers are, here.

Which makes what chunkymonkey is saying even more bizarre. Didn't bother to read the threads, I guess?

I remember that thread well. You and I actually got into over how far-reaching gun restrictions should be. But pay no attention to actual content, LGF has been an echo-chamber since Charles denounced the right, just ask the stalker blogs.

63 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:30:28pm

re: #37 Sergey Romanov

Re:2 - links, evidence?

As to Lee Fang and his Koch brothers posts, I have only seen them quoted here, not defended. So if any of you wants to take on the PL scorecard, I'll keep an open mind until I see the evidence.

Here's the link to the LGF post on the Brady Campaign "lost gun" nontroversey. As a holder of a Type 7 Federal Firearms License (FFL), I'm a little more qualified than the Brady Campaign to comment on the issue.

EVERY GUNSMITH in the USA is a Type 7 FFL holder and thus, by the ATF data cited by BC, a "firearm manufacturer." Have a guess at how many of these exist in America? The most minimal error or exclusion in record keeping can lead to a gun being classified by ATF as "lost." If a gunsmith takes in a gun from an owner for repair or modification and fails to record the acquisition and dispossession correctly, the gun will be classified as lost, when it only came in from the owner and went back to the owner. The situation is not as if the firearm was newly created and then went immediately out onto the black market. The BC has no data on the issues that lead to the firearms being classified as "lost" and is for the most part talking out of their rear ends.

Brady Campaign of course painted the situation as if all the major manufacturers were hiring drug addicts and criminals to work in their factories, as if there aren't enough ordinary folks to take these jobs. Pure BS, plain and simple.

Finally, the Brady Campaign is a complete joke. They get very little funding in the way of donations, and pretty much nobody in the country cares about them any more. They've lied and obfuscated the issues too often, predicted blood in the streets too often, and been wrong all of the time.

64 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:30:33pm

re: #54 albusteve

Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter carried him...period

QFT. 'Rock 'N Roll Animal' is the greatest album he ever made - and he was completely out of it when they ran tape.

65 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:30:48pm

re: #58 Atlas Fails

It's entirely possible that the Brady campaign numbers are inaccurate.

The best way to show that would be for chunkymonkey to cite authoritative figures on how many guns were lost.

Don't hold your breath.

66 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:32:10pm

re: #58 Atlas Fails

I love how he thinks it makes a difference whether or not someone who 'lost' guns counted as a 'manufacturer' for ATF and tax purposes. It's still an unaccounted for killing machine, dumbass.

It never ceases to amaze me how much of a lather is worked up when arguing about guns over 'these idiots don't even know that's a 1997 .303 rimfire bolt action with alloy chrome chasing and extended-range HEAP rounds, not a 1999 model with the custom wood paneling. That's the DART model, you hippie liberal morons, how can you want to steal our freedoms and make it easier for the illegals and the Black Panthers to kill us in our beds when you don't know the first thing about guns??!' or something similar.

Wood, trees, failure to see.

67 freetoken  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:32:34pm

They're really going at it out there in the hate-o-sphere... the HotWingnut commenters seem to be totally clueless (as usual), running with the Bratfart story and going into as many directions as possible to deny their own hate-spewing habits... while spewing hate.

68 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:33:10pm

This is an epic fail for the right wing blogosphere. Incredible. None of them are aware that they're talking about the Voting Rights March celebration.

69 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:33:42pm

re: #63 chunkymonkey

Can you provide any figures on how many of those 'lost' guns went in for repair and back to the owners, or are you just making a supposition?

70 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:33:47pm

re: #63 chunkymonkey

Finally, the Brady Campaign is a complete joke. They get very little funding in the way of donations, and pretty much nobody in the country cares about them any more. They've lied and obfuscated the issues too often, predicted blood in the streets too often, and been wrong all of the time.

You mean they thought gun violence would take place in America's streets, especially in places with few regulations? Dumbasses!

71 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:33:48pm

re: #43 Atlas Fails

Enlighten us, oh chunky one, about what really constitutes a gun manufacturer, since you are doubtlessly an expert in the field, and not at all parroting talking points in an attempt to deflect attention from yet another shameless Breitbart lie.

Correct, I am an expert in the field. See my post above.

72 freetoken  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:33:54pm

re: #68 Charles

They don't care.

They are past caring.

All they desire to do is vent their spew.

73 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:34:20pm

re: #64 makeitstop

QFT. 'Rock 'N Roll Animal' is the greatest album he ever made - and he was completely out of it when they ran tape.

their twin solo intro to Sweet Jane is beyond mortal....4 min of the greatest guitar music ever recorded...says me

74 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:34:48pm

Also note: this is an epic fail of the cited blogs. They are falling for pure BS, far as I can tell. On the other hand, pretty much everyone falls for BS sometimes, the LGF gun manufacturer thing for one.

75 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:35:01pm

re: #71 chunkymonkey

But do you have any actual data to back up your supposition?

76 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:36:27pm

Er, comment 74 isn't clear. I agree that the right wing blogs are failing badly on the Obama / Black Panther nontroversy. That's what it's come to in the country, and it's a sad state of affairs.

77 laZardo  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:37:18pm

re: #68 Charles

This is an epic fail for the right wing blogosphere. Incredible. None of them are aware that they're talking about the Voting Rights March celebration.

They'd be frothing even further if they were aware.

78 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:38:13pm

re: #76 chunkymonkey

Er, comment 74 isn't clear. I agree that the right wing blogs are failing badly on the Obama / Black Panther nontroversy. That's what it's come to in the country, and it's a sad state of affairs.

If only both sides didn't do it...then there might be hope...but LGF...so sad.
fuck me.

79 erik_t  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:38:15pm

re: #75 Obdicut

But do you have any actual data to back up your supposition?

Dude, weren't you listening? He's an expert.

80 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:39:34pm

re: #71 chunkymonkey

Correct, I am an expert in the field. See my post above.

You're an expert? Doubt that, unless by 'expert' you mean 'NRA lifetime member.' Your whole argument boils down to 'well yeah a shitload of guns were classified as lost, but most of that was probably due to paperwork or something. Also the Brady Campaign sucks because nobody gives them money.' Once again, you failed to provide any meaningful facts or figures. Once again, you will be dismissed until you do.

81 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:39:53pm

re: #76 chunkymonkey

Even if your were correct-- and again, I'll ask you to actually cite data to back up your criticism-- do you understand that the frequency of error is an important metric?

If one source gets things wrong 1% of the time, and another source gets it wrong 99% of the time, you can say they both get things wrong, but why would you? That's not a very accurate statement.

82 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:40:12pm

re: #79 erik_t

Dude, weren't you listening? He's an expert.

And cows are outstanding in their field.

83 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:40:30pm

re: #71 chunkymonkey

Correct, I am an expert in the field. See my post above.

and what makes you an expert?

and in which field, exactly?

84 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:41:19pm

re: #80 Atlas Fails

You're an expert? Doubt that, unless by 'expert' you mean 'NRA lifetime member.'

NRA liftetime membership costs money. "NRA sticker on the back of my PT Cruiser" is more like it.

85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:41:46pm

re: #68 Charles

This is an epic fail for the right wing blogosphere. Incredible. None of them are aware that they're talking about the Voting Rights March celebration.

If you really want to see hate spewed, remind them that Blacks have any voting rights, at all.

And how we got them, even despite their bombing our churches and trying to kill us for trying to put a ballot in a box.

Image: bloody_sunday.jpg

Image: selma.jpg

Image: selma_white_v.jpg

86 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:42:25pm

Does anyone have any data to confirm or refute what I or the BC wrote? No? Well then, good thing it was posted so blithely! Does anyone honestly believe that the major American gun manufacturers: Remington, S&W, Colt, Springfield Armory, Glock (Austrian), Beretta (Italian), Savage, Browning, etc actually regularly hire drug addicts and criminals to work in their plants? That they actually make it easy for firearm receivers to be removed from the plants before being marked? That they don't have the ability to keep inventory properly so that 16,000 firearms were actually lost in the course of doing business?

Does anyone here know that EVERY SINGLE GUNSMITH, of which there are thousands, has a Type 07 FFL and is classified as a "firearm manufacturer" by the ATF? Does anyone know the level of detail we have to keep regarding records of firearms that come into or go out of our possession?

I read through the Brady report, and the linked ATF information. The BC obviously does not know what they are talking about, and they make ZERO effort to look deeper into the data. For them, it's all about the headline.

87 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:43:24pm

re: #79 erik_t

Dude, weren't you listening? He's an expert.

yes, on the law via his trade...not govt stats
no need to get pissy over it

88 erik_t  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:43:31pm

re: #86 chunkymonkey

I love appeals to incredulity.

89 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:43:46pm

re: #86 chunkymonkey

A) So, you're saying you don't actually have any data, and are just using an argument of personal incredulity?

B) The number of manufactures is completely irrelevant, and I"m not sure why you keep harping on it.

90 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:43:57pm

re: #86 chunkymonkey

Does any one think you are trying to deflect attention from Andrew Breitbart?

Yes!

91 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:44:08pm

re: #83 engineer dog

and what makes you an expert?

and in which field, exactly?

This information is available in the previous comments if you will just look. Just follow the quotes.

92 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:44:32pm

re: #63 chunkymonkey

Well, here's the deal. Suppose you're correct in your analysis. Do you really not see that to see through a supposed lie/false claim by the BC one must know some pretty specific things in that field, while not to fall for Breitbart's latest smear one simply must not be a drooling moron?

93 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:44:41pm

re: #86 chunkymonkey

Does anyone have any data to confirm or refute what I or the BC wrote? No? Well then, good thing it was posted so blithely! Does anyone honestly believe that the major American gun manufacturers: Remington, S&W, Colt, Springfield Armory, Glock (Austrian), Beretta (Italian), Savage, Browning, etc actually regularly hire drug addicts and criminals to work in their plants? That they actually make it easy for firearm receivers to be removed from the plants before being marked? That they don't have the ability to keep inventory properly so that 16,000 firearms were actually lost in the course of doing business?

Does anyone here know that EVERY SINGLE GUNSMITH, of which there are thousands, has a Type 07 FFL and is classified as a "firearm manufacturer" by the ATF? Does anyone know the level of detail we have to keep regarding records of firearms that come into or go out of our possession?

I read through the Brady report, and the linked ATF information. The BC obviously does not know what they are talking about, and they make ZERO effort to look deeper into the data. For them, it's all about the headline.

'Can anyone prove that some of those lost guns weren't just filing mistakes? No? Ha! I am right!'

94 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:45:19pm

re: #89 Obdicut

A) So, you're saying you don't actually have any data, and are just using an argument of personal incredulity?

B) The number of manufactures is completely irrelevant, and I"m not sure why you keep harping on it.

The Brady Campaign, the source for the story, DOES NOT HAVE THE DATA EITHER! And yet you and LGF are willing to accept their word for it. Awesome!

95 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:45:31pm

One thing I do know about Andrew Breitbart...that guy is one chunky fucking monkey.

96 Lidane  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:45:32pm

re: #86 chunkymonkey

Still trying to deflect from all the right wing fail. I'll give you credit for persistence, but the tactic is obvious.

97 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:46:17pm

re: #73 albusteve

their twin solo intro to Sweet Jane is beyond mortal...4 min of the greatest guitar music ever recorded...says me

I'll back you up on that all day long.

Next time you get to listen to it, check out how Lou completely steps on Wagner's smoking solo to start the first verse. He was completely baked that night.

98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:47:34pm

re: #76 chunkymonkey

Er, comment 74 isn't clear. I agree that the right wing blogs are failing badly on the Obama / Black Panther nontroversy. That's what it's come to in the country, and it's a sad state of affairs.

Yer posts about LGF/firearms are the nontroversy.

99 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:47:43pm

For bikers...

100 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:48:11pm

re: #90 wrenchwench

Does any one think you are trying to deflect attention from Andrew Breitbart?

Yes!

Who's Andrew Breitbart?

101 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:48:51pm

re: #91 chunkymonkey

This information is available in the previous comments if you will just look. Just follow the quotes.

Back to what?
Powerline?
Rofl.

102 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:49:09pm

re: #100 Amory Blaine

Who's Andrew Breitbart?

The distraction worked!
/

103 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:49:43pm

re: #65 Obdicut

Do you recall the post (forgot who) back when this first came up, as only 2500 gun mfg's even existed just a couple years earlier than the report? that sure made me a bit skeptical. That and Brady/HCI advocacy disease-Exaggeration and hyperbole. They count a 17 year old as a child in any gun accident for example.

I took a look at losses at jewelry manufacturers, and found a similar rate of lost valuable items. i.e. roughly about 6.4 (16,000 guns lost by 2500 mfg locations,) items lost or stolen per mfg per year. Jewelry manufacturers take extraordinary steps to prevent loss for obvious reasons. Now these numbers are anecdotal in the sense I spoke to some people I know that have jewelry shops. Some said more some said less. But certainly the same order of magnitude. But consider they use cameras and metal detectors and good habits.

104 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:49:53pm

re: #97 makeitstop

I'll back you up on that all day long.

Next time you get to listen to it, check out how Lou completely steps on Wagner's smoking solo to start the first verse. He was completely baked that night.

I used to post that vid here and there...then it was gone, and I never found it again...I recall it was a slide show of a live performance...blew me away...I grew up with Wagner and the Frost up in MI...took me a few years to figure out just how good he was...and teamed with Hunter, epic

105 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:50:09pm

re: #102 makeitstop

ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD

106 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:50:21pm

re: #94 chunkymonkey

If you'll actually read my posts, I'm quite clearly saying that the numbers may be inaccurate. I've got no particular way to know if they are or not. The Brady Campaign certainly does have an agenda. However, given the number of guns manufactured and distrubuted in the US, 16,000 actually seems like a relatively small number-- especially when you factor in that some of those guns were just 'lost' while being modified.

As for the rest of LGF, you'd have to ask about their own take on the story. Not really a hive mind.

The Brady Campaign certainly is citing data, though-- here it is.

ATF, Inspections of Licensed Importers and Manufacturers, Joint Conference of the NFATCA, FAIR Trade
Group and NSSF, August 2, 2011,

[Link: docs.google.com...]


That does indeed cite the number of missing guns at 16,000.

So, you can claim that data is wrong or inaccurate, but you can't claim they didn't cite data. They did.

Can you explain why you claimed they didn't cite any data?

107 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:50:30pm

re: #92 Sergey Romanov

Well, here's the deal. Suppose you're correct in your analysis. Do you really not see that to see through a supposed lie/false claim by the BC one must know some pretty specific things in that field, while not to fall for Breitbart's latest smear one simply must not be a drooling moron?

True! Which is why folks without the knowledge or not willing to spend the extra effort to dig deeper shouldn't comment on issues out of their expertise. Or at the very minimum, ever trust anything written by the Brady Campaign.

Hey, I'm all over calling out the asswipes in the "right wing blogosphere" on their bullshit. But it's not as if the left wing doesn't have their share too. Anyone who thinks the right wing has a monopoly on bullshit is kidding themselves.

And yes, it does appear these days that the majority of racist assholes in the country have thrown in their lot with "the right wing." I hate these assholes and want them to please throw themselves into a volcano. However, them siding with "the right wing" isn't going to make me side with "the left wing," and why should it?

108 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:51:04pm

re: #103 Rightwingconspirator

They count a 17 year old as a child in any gun accident for example.

17 year olds are children under the law, no?

109 erik_t  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:51:30pm

re: #106 Obdicut

Can you explain why you claimed they didn't cite any data?

He dug too derp.

110 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:51:48pm

re: #94 chunkymonkey

The Brady Campaign, the source for the story, DOES NOT HAVE THE DATA EITHER! And yet you and LGF are willing to accept their word for it. Awesome!

I see, you don't take any claim seriously unless it has data to back it up (well, the Brady report had data, but not data that confirmed what you're saying, so it obviously doesn't count). Is that why your own posts have been so laden with statistics backing up your points, as opposed to say, paragraphs of rambling prose and circular logic?

111 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:53:23pm

Wow, the troll succeeded in making a discussion of the latest Breitbart manufactured outrage into a discussion about the Brady Campaign. Impressive.

112 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:53:23pm

re: #107 chunkymonkey

Then you shouldn't have written "I guess that makes up for LGF falling for fake stories by Think Progress and the Brady Campaign". Because regardless of the veracity of the BC story, these cases are not analogous. And yes, when relying on third party experts (or people posing as such) we will inevitably make mistakes sooner or later. Not a big deal.

113 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:53:37pm

re: #103 Rightwingconspirator

Like I said, I don't really find 16,000 guns lost to be an amazing number, given the amount of guns sold. It speaks to pretty good attempt at keeping track of the guns. The ATF report appears to cite an initially much larger number (131,100) of missing guns-- which I think are the paperwork mistakes, which they then correct-- before reaching the 16,000 figure.

However, guns can kill people, while jewelry can't. Except chokers.

/rimshot.

114 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:54:14pm

re: #91 chunkymonkey

This information is available in the previous comments if you will just look. Just follow the quotes.

i'm afraid i fail to locate any such information

if it's not too much trouble, perhaps you could condescend to repeat for us what field it is that you claim to be an expert in and what your qualifications are for expert status

thanking you in advance i am & etc

115 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:54:26pm

re: #104 albusteve

I used to post that vid here and there...then it was gone, and I never found it again...I recall it was a slide show of a live performance...blew me away...I grew up with Wagner and the Frost up in MI...took me a few years to figure out just how good he was...and teamed with Hunter, epic

That team also rescued Alice Cooper at one point, on the 'Welcome To My Nightmare' record.

I'm friends with Wagner on Facebook. He's still at it, still sounds great.

116 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:54:39pm

Lol, powerline blog.
Nice source, chief.

117 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:55:26pm

re: #111 bratwurst

Wow, the troll succeeded in making a discussion of the latest Breitbart manufactured outrage into a discussion about the Brady Campaign. Impressive.

He's not doing so good at it-- all he's doing right now is demonstrating that people who play the MBF card and attempt to make false comparisons between Breitbart's stuff and LGF are rather bad at making their points.

118 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:55:26pm

re: #108 makeitstop

Depends. Much younger kids are tried as adults. Failing to have an adolescent category in your numbers to ramp up the emotional appeal of your advocacy sucks, and they do that IMHO.

119 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:55:33pm

re: #106 Obdicut

The Brady Campaign certainly is citing data, though-- here it is.

ATF, Inspections of Licensed Importers and Manufacturers, Joint Conference of the NFATCA, FAIR Trade
Group and NSSF, August 2, 2011,

[Link: docs.google.com...]

That does indeed cite the number of missing guns at 16,000.

So, you can claim that data is wrong or inaccurate, but you can't claim they didn't cite data. They did.

Can you explain why you claimed they didn't cite any data?

I did not claim that they didn't cite any data! Read carefully:

I read the data back when the post originally showed up at LGF. Right, 16,000 guns were classified as "missing." The data is not wrong, nor is it inaccurate. The BC did in fact cite the data. The problem is that the BC doesn't know what they are writing about, and hence they made a mountain out of a molehill.

The point of the BC article is to smear the gun industry, when the data, if understood in context, does not back them up. That's my point.

120 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:57:44pm

re: #63 chunkymonkey

EVERY GUNSMITH in the USA is a Type 7 FFL holder and thus, by the ATF data cited by BC, a "firearm manufacturer."

Gunsmiths fall under Type 1, not Type 7. Some "expert" you've turned out to be.

121 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:59:05pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Gunsmiths fall under Type 1, not Type 7. Some "expert" you've turned out to be.

Image: h99122_350.jpg

122 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:59:13pm

re: #118 Rightwingconspirator

Depends. Much younger kids are tried as adults. Failing to have an adolescent category in your numbers to ramp up the emotional appeal of your advocacy sucks, and they do that IMHO.

But you're talking about gunshot victims, right?

Why should gunshot victims who aren't of legal age be treated as adults? Because they might have been doing something bad?

Isn't that taking presuming guilt a little far?

123 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:59:22pm

when it comes to data....the last entity in the entire known universe I'd trust would be the federal govt....the ultimate liars...mistrust of the feds has been pounded into throughout the years....they'll say and do whatever they want

124 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:59:28pm

Limbaugh transcript from today's show.

RUSH: I'm gonna tell you, this is really disappointing to me. Herman Cain. I liked Herman Cain -- like Herman Cain. The Washington Post has it as a Macaca story about Rick Perry. Apparently back when Rick Perry was a Democrat... There's this woman at the Washington Post who's written a story that, with traditional journalism, wouldn't even pass the first review by an editor. But apparently back in the eighties when Perry was a Democrat, he and his dad would go hunting at someplace and there is a rock that had the N-word on it that somebody had painted over.

[...]

So here you have the Washington Post with an unsupported nonstory, and here comes Herman Cain piggybacking on it trying to capitalize on it, essentially letting the mainstream media (in this case, the Washington Post) set the narrative.

[...]

BREAK TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: On the cutting edge of societal evolution, Rush Limbaugh, having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have.

Andrew Breitbart, BigGovernment.com, is reporting he's got new pictures, new photographs obtained exclusively by his website, BigGovernment.com revealing that Obama appeared with and marched with members of the New Black Panther Party as he campaigned for president in March of 2007. Now, fine and dandy. The president as a candidate can march with whoever he wants. He sits in Reverend Wright's church for 20 years while Wright is spouting utter vile hatred for this country. Obama said, (imitating Obama) "I didn't hear it. I was there, but I didn't hear it. Moochelle didn't hear it, kids didn't hear it, nobody heard it." Everybody's heard it except Obama.

[...]

...and so on.

125 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:59:41pm

re: #68 Charles

This is an epic fail for the right wing blogosphere. Incredible. None of them are aware that they're talking about the Voting Rights March celebration.

Not to be utterly gloomy, but is this really incompetence? Given the methodology of this group of demagogues, they have no incentive to do again but follow along with the story Breitbart laid out.

126 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 2:59:41pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Like I said, I don't really find 16,000 guns lost to be an amazing number, given the amount of guns sold. It speaks to pretty good attempt at keeping track of the guns. The ATF report appears to cite an initially much larger number (131,100) of missing guns-- which I think are the paperwork mistakes, which they then correct-- before reaching the 16,000 figure.

However, guns can kill people, while jewelry can't. Except chokers.

/rimshot.

I agree, and nice pun there. But security is typically very tight. About as tight as is practical. There are limits. Heck, I was told to leave my belt in a locker at an appointment to sell gold solder to a factory. I then (jokingly) said I would need a sexual harassment waiver as I was going to lose my pants in full view of the employees. I got to keep my belt on. LOL.

127 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:00:57pm

re: #119 chunkymonkey

I did not claim that they didn't cite any data! Read carefully:

Hmm.

re: #94 chunkymonkey

The Brady Campaign, the source for the story, DOES NOT HAVE THE DATA EITHER! And yet you and LGF are willing to accept their word for it. Awesome!

Are you trying to claim that when you said that they didn't have the data, you just meant they weren't the primary source of the data? Everyone knows that. What's your point?

128 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:01:09pm

re: #122 makeitstop

But you're talking about gunshot victims, right?

Why should gunshot victims who aren't of legal age be treated as adults? Because they might have been doing something bad?

Isn't that taking presuming guilt a little far?

Gunshot accident victims. As if a 3 year old got hurt rather than a dumb accident by a 17 year old hunter.

129 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:02:22pm

re: #115 makeitstop

That team also rescued Alice Cooper at one point, on the 'Welcome To My Nightmare' record.

I'm friends with Wagner on Facebook. He's still at it, still sounds great.

tell him there are old timers out here that still love him

Youtube Video
130 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:02:59pm

re: #129 albusteve

tell him there are old timers out here that still love him

[Video]

I will do that.

131 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:03:08pm

re: #124 wrenchwench

Limbaugh transcript from today's show.

...and so on.

I love how the talking point is to mention the fact that was back when Perry was a Democrat, as if that were meaningful to the story. Buck was right on top of that too.

132 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:05:12pm

I'm officially ignoring the troll now.

Back to Breitbart: even the Great One himself has given Andy his blessing in this endeavor:

RUSH AGREES: BREITBART REPORT ON OBAMA MARCHING WITH BLACK PANTHERS SHOWS HYPOCRISY OF MEDIA, PRESIDENT!!!

For shits and giggles, here are a few comments from Big Government's fine patrons:

No defence lefties,no defence.

...

Hey Lefties, good luck trying to rewrite the facts of this history!

...

I want the Democrats to stop molesting our kids

...

THE MATH:
1 moslem father + 0 college transcripts + 0 business experience + 100 rounds of golf + 20 gold plated vacations + 1 racist minister + 0 press conferences + ALL the new black panthers + ALL the union thugs + 5 or 6 secret wars + 25 bows to foreign leaders + 1 phony social security number + 1 platinum hip hop barbecue birthday party + 2 daughters in a REALLY expensive private school + 1 criminal Secretary of State + 1 cabinet with NO real world experience = FAR LESS THAN ZERO

...

Obama X. Obama X. Obama X.

Racist. Racist.

A little note to that last commenter: Malcolm X was ten times the man you'll ever be, as evidenced by his willingness to change and become more accepting and open-minded near the end of his tragically short life.

133 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:05:30pm

Boy, he/she sure got quite.
Wonder why???
/

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:06:30pm

re: #133 Varek Raith

Boy, he/she sure got quite.
Wonder why???
/

*checking the 'blocked' status* Hmm, nope.

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:06:37pm

re: #77 laZardo

They'd be frothing even further if they were aware.

Dumb conservative confederates...

136 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:07:42pm

re: #132 Atlas Fails

whatever he is, he's not a troll...no more than you are

137 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:07:56pm

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

*checking the 'blocked' status* Hmm, nope.

It's what happens when the don't post at the end of a dead thread.
They get pwnd.

138 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:08:02pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Heh. Nice catch.

139 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:09:07pm

Seems to me that this story is a deliberate warm-up for this crock:

“Christian Adams is a truth-teller, whistle-blower, and American patriot. With great courage and investigative skill, this former Department of Justice attorney single-handedly exposes how Barack Obama and Eric Holder have systematically perverted the rule of law—for patently unjust, un-American, race-based ends. Adams witnessed first-hand the hijacking of the DOJ by radical leftist ideologues and interest groups. Now he reveals everything: the full story of Holder’s coddling of New Black Panther Party poll thugs, corruption run amok in the Civil Rights Division, open borders advocacy, selective law enforcement, and much more. If you care about justice for all, Injustice is hands-down the most important book you’ll read this year.”

140 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:09:24pm

re: #131 bratwurst

I love how the talking point is to mention the fact that was back when Perry was a Democrat, as if that were meaningful to the story. Buck was right on top of that too.

THE DEMOCRAT PARTY WAS THE PARTY OF SLAVERY AND THE GOP IS THE PARTY OF LINCOLN AND MLK!!! STATES' RIGHTS!!!11!!111one

141 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:09:38pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Gunsmiths fall under Type 1, not Type 7. Some "expert" you've turned out to be.

Hah! You are correct, mea culpa. I am a manufacturer but I can and do also act as a gunsmith. If a gunsmith ever creates new firearms, they must have a type 7 FFL, and there are many classified as such. My main points still stand.

Thanks for clarifying that.

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:11:06pm

re: #139 Sergey Romanov

It's at Malkin's place, BTW, in a posting named "Race hustlers of a feather: Obama and the New Black Panther Party". She, of course, also links to AB.

143 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:11:44pm

Speaking of guns - I just got the NRA 'UN Global Gun Ban' robo-call.

Comedy gold.

144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:11:51pm

re: #139 Sergey Romanov

Seems to me that this story is a deliberate warm-up for this crock:

“Christian Adams is a truth-teller, whistle-blower, and American patriot. With great courage and investigative skill, this former Department of Justice attorney single-handedly exposes how Barack Obama and Eric Holder have systematically perverted the rule of law—for patently unjust, un-American, race-based ends. Adams witnessed first-hand the hijacking of the DOJ by radical leftist ideologues and interest groups. Now he reveals everything: the full story of Holder’s coddling of New Black Panther Party poll thugs, corruption run amok in the Civil Rights Division, open borders advocacy, selective law enforcement, and much more. If you care about justice for all, Injustice is hands-down the most important book you’ll read this year.”

^These dumb confederates have been priming this rusty old pump for 3 years. It will work, too.

Got link?

145 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:11:54pm

Just to doubly clarify, a Type 1 FFL is an ordinary dealer and/or gunstmith. Any gunsmith that creates a new weapon must have a Type 7 FFL and is classified as a manufacturer.

146 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:12:06pm

re: #139 Sergey Romanov

Seems to me that this story is a deliberate warm-up for this crock:

Marketing blitz. Interesting possibility.

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:12:39pm

re: #144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Malkin.

148 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:12:51pm

re: #142 Sergey Romanov

It's at Malkin's place, BTW, in a posting named "Race hustlers of a feather: Obama and the New Black Panther Party". She, of course, also links to AB.

Lol pro-internment con labeling someone else a "race hustler". Rotfl.

149 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:13:51pm

re: #142 Sergey Romanov

It's at Malkin's place, BTW, in a posting named "Race hustlers of a feather: Obama and the New Black Panther Party". She, of course, also links to AB.

a conspiracy of deceit...we're hosed
a bunch of purple one line old jokes ain't gonna make a dent...someday the First is gonna be loaded with asterisks

150 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:14:37pm

re: #145 chunkymonkey

Just to doubly clarify, a Type 1 FFL is an ordinary dealer and/or gunstmith. Any gunsmith that creates a new weapon must have a Type 7 FFL and is classified as a manufacturer.

seriously, i would appreciate it if you would answer my question and pony up your credentials

i've been a professional computer programmer for over 25 years yet i hesitate to describe myself as an "expert"

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:14:45pm

Andrew Breitbart... AB

Anders Breivik... AB

COINCIDENCE?!

152 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:16:00pm

re: #150 engineer dog

seriously, i would appreciate it if you would answer my question and pony up your credentials

i've been a professional computer programmer for over 25 years yet i hesitate to describe myself as an "expert"

I'll bet your mother brags about you as a computer expert.

153 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:16:25pm

re: #139 Sergey Romanov

Seems to me that this story is a deliberate warm-up for this crock:

Wow! Shouldn't I at least be able to get a traffic ticket dismissed if I show up at the same event as Obama?

154 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:16:38pm

re: #152 EmmmieG

I'll bet your mother brags about you as a computer expert.

so?...what are her credentials?

155 Kragar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:17:13pm

re: #151 Sergey Romanov

Andrew Breitbart... AB

Anders Breivik... AB

COINCIDENCE?!

Geller writes on AB's site, and provided the dogma behind AB's massacre, I think you're on to something...
/

156 laZardo  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:17:27pm

Speaking of six degrees, one of my uncle's co-workers is Amanda Knox's stepdad.

D:

157 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:18:03pm

re: #86 chunkymonkey

Does anyone have any data to confirm or refute what I or the BC wrote? No? Well then, good thing it was posted so blithely! Does anyone honestly believe that the major American gun manufacturers: Remington, S&W, Colt, Springfield Armory, Glock (Austrian), Beretta (Italian), Savage, Browning, etc actually regularly hire drug addicts and criminals to work in their plants? That they actually make it easy for firearm receivers to be removed from the plants before being marked? That they don't have the ability to keep inventory properly so that 16,000 firearms were actually lost in the course of doing business?

Does anyone here know that EVERY SINGLE GUNSMITH, of which there are thousands, has a Type 07 FFL and is classified as a "firearm manufacturer" by the ATF? Does anyone know the level of detail we have to keep regarding records of firearms that come into or go out of our possession?

I read through the Brady report, and the linked ATF information. The BC obviously does not know what they are talking about, and they make ZERO effort to look deeper into the data. For them, it's all about the headline.

Do you know when to STFU?

PS: I'm Emperor of the Universe! So take your expert and suck it up your nose and blow it out your ass.

159 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:19:35pm

re: #158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Site be dead.

160 Cap'n Magic  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:19:55pm

Don't get mad-laugh at them! And whoever parrots their meme. Or better still, note that they're doing the same thing that that the so-called MSM media is accused of.

And Andrew Breitbart collects penis pictures of Congressmen and shows them to shock jocks. That's all anybody needs to know about his "journalism."

161 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:20:17pm

re: #150 engineer dog

seriously, i would appreciate it if you would answer my question and pony up your credentials

i've been a professional computer programmer for over 25 years yet i hesitate to describe myself as an "expert"

Good point, "expert" may be too strong. I do possess a Type 7 FFL and I have to act within the laws, which are many and strongly coupled. I'm not a lawyer who specializes in ATF/FFL regulations, if that's what you're getting at. 25 years programming experience and you're not an expert? In that case, who the heck is?

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:20:34pm

re: #159 ProLifeLiberal

Not dead, asterisked.

163 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:20:34pm

re: #159 ProLifeLiberal

Site be dead.

You have to replace the asterisks, then the link works.

164 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:21:12pm

re: #162 Sergey Romanov

Not dead, asterisked.

Exact time match!

165 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:21:16pm

re: #157 RayFerd

Do you know when to STFU?

PS: I'm Emperor of the Universe! So take your expert and suck it up your nose and blow it out your ass.

Oh RayFerd, you really know how to lay the smack down. Ow!

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:21:40pm

re: #164 wrenchwench

Same wave!

*ta da*

167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:22:42pm

re: #159 ProLifeLiberal

re: #162 Sergey Romanov

re: #163 wrenchwench


Feh, just as well...worse than stalkerblog.

168 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:23:19pm

re: #157 RayFerd

nice manners...we all benefit I'm sure

169 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:24:33pm

re: #168 albusteve

nice manners...we all benefit I'm sure

Are my elbows on the dining room table again?

170 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:24:48pm

re: #161 chunkymonkey

How come you didn't know that gunsmiths are FFL1 holders?

And why do you keep dodging this question:

If one source gets things wrong 1% of the time, and another source gets it wrong 99% of the time, you can say they both get things wrong, but why would you? That's not a very accurate statement.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:25:32pm

BTW, think what you want of chunkymonkey, but at least he does engage in conversation (even if fruitless), unlike, say, rwmofo.

172 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:26:12pm

re: #169 sattv4u2

Are my elbows on the dining room table again?

no, but no need to spit half chewed ravioli

173 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:28:56pm

re: #172 albusteve

no, but no need to spit half chewed ravioli

I always swallow those whole!

174 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:29:41pm

re: #161 chunkymonkey

Good point, "expert" may be too strong. I do possess a Type 7 FFL and I have to act within the laws, which are many and strongly coupled. I'm not a lawyer who specializes in ATF/FFL regulations, if that's what you're getting at. 25 years programming experience and you're not an expert? In that case, who the heck is?

thank you

In that case, who the heck is?

well, that's partly my point

Type 7 FFL is a Title 1 manufacturer of firearms, ammunition and ammunition components other than NFA, Destructive Devices and Armor Piercing ammunition

Machineguns, Sound suppressors, Short-Barrel Rifles and Shotguns, and Any Other Weapons (AOW) -- such as forward AR broomsticks on pistols, are all regulated and taxed under the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) as amended by Title 2 of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968. NFA is managed by IRS rather than ATF. These are called III, NFA or AOW by ATF.
Semi-auto and all other firearms except large-bore or explosive Destructive Devices are regulated under Title 1 of the Gun Control Act (GCA).

[Link: www.fflanswers.com...]

Title 1 firearms are your ordinary rifles, pistols, revolvers & shotguns.

[Link: www.survivalmonkey.com...]

you are a professional manufacturer of rifles, pistols, revolvers, and/or shotguns?

175 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:30:17pm

re: #170 Obdicut

How come you didn't know that gunsmiths are FFL1 holders?

I did know that, since I had to choose which type to get when I got my FFL, I just flaked in formulating my argument. The work I do mostly consists of gunsmithing, so I tend to think of my FFL as a gunsmithing FFL hence the disconnect. Also, from the folks I know in the industry, most serious gunsmiths have a Type 7 FFL. There's really no reason not to get one, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE TYPE 7 APPLICATION FEE IS LESS THAN THE TYPE 1 FEE.

And why do you keep dodging this question:

I'm not dodging it, I was ignoring it because I was focused on the other issues. Also, it seems like a vague question. To which sources, 1% and 99% are you referring? Please clarify and I'll try to answer.

176 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:31:19pm

Brady has their version, and we do have the other side of the story...

[Link: www.guns.com...]
According to the ATF, last year approximately 600 agents conducted more than 10,000 inspections at various gun manufacturers.

There are many questions that emerge following this Brady report, among them: which gun manufacturers are responsible for the missing firearms? Is it a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the whole bunch? Or is it a systemic issue that plagues all manufacturers? Would a change in legislation really address this problem?

Also, by the numbers, ATF statistics show that in 2008 more than 5 million firearms were made in the U.S. If 5 million is an average number of firearms produced each year, then even if we use the 16,000 missing firearm figure for the past two years, the percentage of firearms recording missing compared to the number produced is something like .33%, is this an "acceptable" percentage?

At the end of the day, if the numbers released by the ATF are accurate, gun manufacturers need to do a better job at securing their inventory. Yes, mistakes happen, and they will continue to happen, but for an industry that is constantly under the microscope mitigating all mistakes, no matter how impossible that seems, must be a priority. Yes, it's unfair, but as long as there are people out there who are determined to repeal the 2nd Amendment and put firearm manufacturers out of business, keeping our house in perfect order is a must. Besides, it's one of the best ways to fight back.

177 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:31:26pm

Heads up!
Outrageous outrage of Biblical dimensions coming up:

ESPN yanks Hank for comparing Obama to Hitler

Hank Williams Jr., the voice famous asking millions of football fans whether they’re ready for some football, has been pulled from tonight’s broadcast of “Monday Night Football” over a comment he made on Fox News this morning.

Williams, who sings the lead-in song to the game each week, criticized the president for his golf summit with House Speaker John Boehner this summer.

“It would be like Hitler playing golf with (Israeli leader) Benjamin Netanyahu,” Williams told “Fox & Friends.”

Another story, with video of the interview

178 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:31:43pm

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

BTW, think what you want of chunkymonkey, but at least he does engage in conversation (even if fruitless), unlike, say, rwmofo.

watch your back amigo

179 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:31:57pm

re: #145 chunkymonkey

Just to doubly clarify, a Type 1 FFL is an ordinary dealer and/or gunstmith. Any gunsmith that creates a new weapon must have a Type 7 FFL and is classified as a manufacturer.

And Ronny RayGun said Burger Flippers are manufactures too. You as skilled as them, expert?

180 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:32:21pm

re: #174 engineer dog

thank you

In that case, who the heck is?

well, that's partly my point

Type 7 FFL is a Title 1 manufacturer of firearms, ammunition and ammunition components other than NFA, Destructive Devices and Armor Piercing ammunition

Machineguns, Sound suppressors, Short-Barrel Rifles and Shotguns, and Any Other Weapons (AOW) -- such as forward AR broomsticks on pistols, are all regulated and taxed under the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) as amended by Title 2 of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968. NFA is managed by IRS rather than ATF. These are called III, NFA or AOW by ATF.
Semi-auto and all other firearms except large-bore or explosive Destructive Devices are regulated under Title 1 of the Gun Control Act (GCA).

[Link: www.fflanswers.com...]

Title 1 firearms are your ordinary rifles, pistols, revolvers & shotguns.

[Link: www.survivalmonkey.com...]

you are a professional manufacturer of rifles, pistols, revolvers, and/or shotguns?

Yes. And I have paid my SOT, so I can manufacture NFA items.

181 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:32:34pm

re: #138 Obdicut

Heh. Nice catch.

Thanks. I'm part of a club of people that investigate highly specific yet wholly unsupported assertions. You may have heard of us, our motto is "Hey, let's check that shit out!"

182 Kragar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:33:50pm

re: #181 goddamnedfrank

Thanks. I'm part of a club of people that investigate highly specific yet wholly unsupported assertions. You may have heard of us, our motto is "Hey, let's check that shit out!"

Are they affiliated with "What the F*** are you talking about?"

183 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:34:16pm

re: #177 Shiplord Kirel

Good for ESPN to do this! Comparing the US President to Hitler is WAY out of bounds.

184 garhighway  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:35:21pm

re: #123 albusteve

when it comes to data...the last entity in the entire known universe I'd trust would be the federal govt...the ultimate liars...mistrust of the feds has been pounded into throughout the years...they'll say and do whatever they want

So the census is bullshit?

185 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:35:37pm

re: #182 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Are they affiliated with "What the F*** are you talking about?"

SPLITTERS!

186 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:35:47pm

re: #175 chunkymonkey

I wasn't talking about any specific sources, but obviously the analogy is to Breitbart and the right wing blogosphere and LGF. You're trying very hard to prove that LGF 'fell for' a particular story. You have not yet backed up this argument with anything other than an argument of personal incredulity, of course, so you haven't actually shown LGF 'fell' for anything. You also assumed everyone had the same perspective on the story which was wrong-- oddly so.

The point of the 99% and 1%, obviously, is to show that saying "Both X and Y have fallen for stories" is a nonsensical argument. Everyone is going to get things wrong. What matters is how often they do.

Are you making any sort of contention that LGF gets things wrong as often as Breitbart does?

187 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:35:47pm

re: #182 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Are they affiliated with "What the F*** are you talking about?"

Yes, under the auspices of the "Who Do You Think You're Kidding" Department.

188 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:35:47pm

re: #165 chunkymonkey

Oh RayFerd, you really know how to lay the smack down. Ow!

Target the mentality to the audience. I have no desire for a smack down. To me you are just an annoying little fucking weasel. Run into your kind all the time. Nothing better to do other than to tell them to fuck off and walk away.

189 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:36:09pm

re: #184 garhighway

So the census is bullshit?

who knows?...you don't

190 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:37:05pm

re: #184 garhighway

So the census is bullshit?

Well, speaking as a genealogist who has spent time looking over censuses (censii?) from many different years, it isn't entirely accurate, either.

It's self-reported, so it says what the individual told the census worker.

I had one ancestor who, bless her soul, aged 3 years between censii.

191 garhighway  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:38:06pm

re: #141 chunkymonkey

My main points still stand.

Which was what, again?

192 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:39:15pm

re: #190 EmmmieG

She's a Time Lord!

I remember in a Human Geography Class I had a year ago the teacher saying that the US Census is probably off by about 5-10%

Meaning that we may be underestimating the population of the US by a factor of somewhere between the Netherlands and Canada.

193 wee fury  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:39:49pm

re: #190 EmmmieG

Well, speaking as a genealogist who has spent time looking over censuses (censii?) from many different years, it isn't entirely accurate, either.

It's self-reported, so it says what the individual told the census worker.

I had one ancestor who, bless her soul, aged 3 years between censii.

Plus, it depends on whether the census worker could spell correctly and if they wrote down the information accurately.

194 garhighway  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:41:08pm

re: #190 EmmmieG

Well, speaking as a genealogist who has spent time looking over censuses (censii?) from many different years, it isn't entirely accurate, either.

It's self-reported, so it says what the individual told the census worker.

I had one ancestor who, bless her soul, aged 3 years between censii.

No doubt there is individual weirdness, but aggregated census data is pretty useful.

Other than the systematic undercount issues that everyone ought to be familiar with (homeless, illegals, and others who don't want to be counted) I haven't seen anything from any professionals that call census data into serious question.

195 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:41:21pm

re: #193 wee fury

Plus, it depends on whether the census worker could spell correctly and if they wrote down the information accurately.

My possible ancestor, Bernard Borges, (it's complicated, don't ask) appeared in the 1860 census as Bona Boget.

196 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:42:18pm

re: #194 garhighway

No doubt there is individual weirdness, but aggregated census data is pretty useful.

Other than the systematic undercount issues that everyone ought to be familiar with (homeless, illegals, and others who don't want to be counted) I haven't seen anything from any professionals that call census data into serious question.

You haven't checked out 1860's Kansas returns. They were shooting on site in Kansas in the 1860's.

(Obviously, this has nothing to do with modern census workers. However, the census is still self-reported.)

197 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:43:36pm

re: #196 EmmmieG

There are much better methods available for census-taking, but they've been blocked by the GOP in the past since they would lead to an increase in the number of traditionally Democratic groups that were counted.

198 wee fury  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:44:07pm

re: #195 EmmmieG

LOL

199 wee fury  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:44:41pm

re: #197 Obdicut

There are much better methods available for census-taking, but they've been blocked by the GOP in the past since they would lead to an increase in the number of traditionally Democratic groups that were counted.

Link?

200 garhighway  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:45:38pm

re: #199 wee fury

Link?

Take 15 seconds and Google it. That was a big deal a while back. There was even a West Wing episode about it.

201 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:46:02pm

re: #180 chunkymonkey

Yes. And I have paid my SOT, so I can manufacture NFA items.

but are you a professional gun manufacturer?

202 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:46:11pm

In two censuses, one of my mother's grandmothers showed up as Colored in the federal census and mulatto in her state one. From family records, she was Black Seminole, Florida Cracker and Ashkenazi Jewish.

My father's mother, who supposedly had enough Cherokee blood quantum to be listed on the Dawes Rolls (dunno whether or not she was) was listed as "mulatto". Her state did not implement their one drop law until 1913, when she would have been a young adult, but I sincerely doubt they reissued any birth certificates when they did.

Lol census

203 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:47:46pm

re: #202 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

In two censuses, one of my mother's grandmothers showed up as Colored in the federal census and mulatto in her state one. From family records, she was Black Seminole, Florida Cracker and Ashkenazi Jewish.

My father's mother, who supposedly had enough Cherokee blood quantum to be listed on the Dawes Rolls (dunno whether or not she was) was listed as "mulatto". Her state did not implement their one drop law until 1913, when she would have been a young adult, but I sincerely doubt they reissued any birth certificates when they did.

Lol census

However, from a genealogy standpoint, you have her name and place of residence at one point in time, which is very helpful.

204 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:47:57pm

I hear a rising rumble from the southeast, like thunder or a rolling artillery barrage. It is no doubt from millions of wingnut heads exploding over ESPN's dismissal of Hank Jr.
The Fever Swamp is in a frothing rage and Drudge is on the case.

They'll be here soon, with their pitchforks and torches.

Have to raise the drawbridge, check the supplies, and batten down the doors and windows.
BRB

205 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:49:01pm

re: #199 wee fury

I'm not sure I know any good comprehensive sites off the top of my head. I can look for you, but I'm feeling kind of rotten at the moment so I'll probably punt-- you can remind me later.

Basically, right now we know that there are populations that are under-counted, because they are the populations that are less likely to respond to census workers knocking on their doors, or to have or give accurate information about their nehigbors. Think of the challenges in census-taking in a neighborhood where a large percentage of residents either have or might have warrants, or simply one where people tend to stay briefly before moving on. In addition, the homeless are currently undercounted.

The better methods is where it gets technical and I'm not able to sum it up.

I'm going to go watch something goofy with my wife now.

206 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:49:38pm

re: #197 Obdicut

There are much better methods available for census-taking, but they've been blocked by the GOP in the past since they would lead to an increase in the number of traditionally Democratic groups that were counted.

From a genealogy standpoint, and not politically, getting a name and a place of residence for each individual is extremely important. Yeah, you'll miss people. The young man who is definitely my ancestor, and may or may not be the son of Bernard Borges, was a hired hand/drifter type in 1870. Hard to find him.

(You do understand that genealogists are, technically speaking, somewhere between fixated and rabid, right?)

207 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:50:08pm

re: #204 Shiplord Kirel

You think they're in a fever pitch now? Wait until all their rowdy friends come over tonight.

208 wee fury  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:50:14pm

re: #200 garhighway

Take 15 seconds and Google it. That was a big deal a while back. There was even a West Wing episode about it.

Ah, a written for TV source.

209 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:50:39pm

Anybody here scan the bar code on the census form that came in the mail?
OMG! It had my name and address and stuff in it! Oh No!
They tie that form with IRS data and the Government will know who I am and where I live.. I FEEL LIKE A NUMBER!
/That's what happens when you drink Paulian Tiger Blood for breakfast
//

210 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:51:17pm

re: #209 HoosierHoops

Anybody here scan the bar code on the census form that came in the mail?
OMG! It had my name and address and stuff in it! Oh No!
They tie that form with IRS data and the Government will know who I am and where I live.. I FEEL LIKE A NUMBER!
/That's what happens when you drink Paulian Tiger Blood for breakfast
//

The government knows how you are and where you live. It's called a Driver's License.

211 garhighway  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:52:19pm

re: #208 wee fury

Ah, a written for TV source.

In the time it took you to reply, you could know the answer.

Don't you want to know?

Or must others spoon-feed you?

212 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:52:31pm

re: #205 Obdicut

not willing to back up your claim?....LOL!
this stuff goes too far, imo

213 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:53:08pm

re: #210 EmmmieG

Oops. Who you are. If they want to know how you are, I guess they could tap your mother's phone.

214 garhighway  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:53:31pm

re: #212 albusteve

not willing to back up your claim?...LOL!
this stuff goes too far, imo

The Census is Unconstitutional!!!!


/

216 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:54:11pm

re: #212 albusteve

I fully concede I haven't supported my claim in the least and there's no particular reason for anyone to believe it until I do so.

But I will, later, if I'm reminded.

217 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:54:20pm

re: #161 chunkymonkey

25 years programming experience and you're not an expert?

heh

i know that my fellow software engineers on this blog will have had to suffer through many s.e. job interviews of 2 to 6 hours of intense technical questions, after which one often feels nothing like an expert on anything. here's a sample of typical s.e. interview easy warm up questions:

-Why are manhole covers round?
-What is the difference between a mutex and a semaphore? Which one would you use to protect access to an increment operation?
-Explain the significance of “dead beef”.
-Write a C program which measures the the speed of a context switch on a UNIX/Linux system.
-Given a function which produces a random integer in the range 1 to 5, write a function which produces a random integer in the range 1 to 7.
-Describe the algorithm for a depth-first graph traversal.
-Design a class library for writing card games.
-You need to check that your friend, Bob, has your correct phone number, but you cannot ask him directly. You must write a the question on a card which and give it to Eve who will take the card to Bob and return the answer to you. What must you write on the card, besides the question, to ensure Bob can encode the message so that Eve cannot read your phone number?
-How are cookies passed in the HTTP protocol?
-Design the SQL database tables for a car rental database.
-Write a regular expression which matches a email address.
-Write a function f(a, b) which takes two character string arguments and returns a string containing only the characters found in both strings in the order of a. Write a version which is order N-squared and one which is order N.
-You are given a the source to a application which is crashing when run. After running it 10 times in a debugger, you find it never crashes in the same place. The application is single threaded, and uses only the C standard library. What programming errors could be causing this crash? How would you test each one?
-Explain how congestion control works in the TCP protocol.
-In Java, what is the difference between final, finally, and finalize?
-What is multithreaded programming? What is a deadlock?

[Link: www.impactinterview.com...]

218 erik_t  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:54:33pm

Back on topic, Mr. Morrissey's article title is technically a valid one. However, if the body of your article can reasonably consist of the word 'No', it's probably not worth extracting yourself from the Chinese finger trap in order to hunt and peck your way to the by-line.

219 wee fury  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:54:52pm

Types of census
Federal, State, City, School, re: #211 garhighway

Who asked you.
Not me.
Gaze.
For your information -- when a poster makes a statement of fact -- they can provide a link. All is good with O and me.
Gaze you.

220 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:55:00pm

re: #210 EmmmieG

The government knows how you are and where you live. It's called a Driver's License.

I was teasing..but you just reminded me.. I need to get a Oklahoma Drivers license soon..I just got an Indiana DL before I moved here.. Dang thing is good for 5 years..

221 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:55:26pm

re: #216 Obdicut

I fully concede I haven't supported my claim in the least and there's no particular reason for anyone to believe it until I do so.

But I will, later, if I'm reminded.

Does this help?

[Link: articles.baltimoresun.com...]

222 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:56:07pm

re: #203 EmmmieG

However, from a genealogy standpoint, you have her name and place of residence at one point in time, which is very helpful.

Yes and no. When it comes to 1870 and earlier, there are a lot of, er, problems. This is adoptive family, anyway.

223 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:56:48pm

re: #214 garhighway

The Census is Unconstitutional!!!

/

only in the Great Cosmic Link Of Life will the Truth be revealed!
(if he looks like Mickey Rooney, don't blame me)

224 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:57:06pm
When people ask why we can't have a "conversation on race," or wonder why Barack Obama generally avoids any discussion of white racism, they really should remember the country he governs. Whatever my critique of Obama's rhetoric to black audience, the dilemma seems fairly clear to me.

We can talk about Skip Gates wrongful arrest. Or we can pass health-care. We can not do both.

Read it all.

Except the link won't work unless you replace the asterisks.

225 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:57:49pm

re: #222 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes and no. When it comes to 1870 and earlier, there are a lot of, er, problems. This is adoptive family, anyway.

Ah, yes, the slave issue. People as numbers, not names.

There is the Freedman's Bank records. Those are available relatively inexpensively on CD. Or they were ten years ago. They may be even more readily available now.

226 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:57:54pm

re: #216 Obdicut

I fully concede I haven't supported my claim in the least and there's no particular reason for anyone to believe it until I do so.

But I will, later, if I'm reminded.

I jest....you get a pass, but only because I believe you

227 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 3:58:19pm

re: #214 garhighway

The Census is Unconstitutional!!!

/

It's not found in the Constitution so get rid of it!

228 Kragar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:00:25pm

I love conservatives. They bitch about the census and did everything they could not to do it, then complain their numbers were under-reported.

Love it.

229 garhighway  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:01:49pm

re: #216 Obdicut

I fully concede I haven't supported my claim in the least and there's no particular reason for anyone to believe it until I do so.

But I will, later, if I'm reminded.

Here is a start, for those who are curious:

[Link: www.google.com...]

The 2000-ish articles get closest to the sampling controversy. The domestic politics were clearly Rs in favor of the manual process so they could preserve the chronic undercount, and Ds wanting sampling because it increased numbers in classic D jurisdictions.

230 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:04:45pm

re: #225 EmmmieG

Ah, yes, the slave issue. People as numbers, not names.

Well, my father's grandparents, yes, that's one way to look at it.

There is the Freedman's Bank records. Those are available relatively inexpensively on CD. Or they were ten years ago. They may be even more readily available now.

I do know that archive.org is in the process of scanning the entire census from 1790-onwards. That link I gave can also be helpful but only if you suspect your ancestor took the name of the master. Many did, many did not.

231 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:05:14pm

re: #229 garhighway

constant, relentless party politics turn me off, bigtime...of AB were a Navaho, he'd be cast into the abyss...we are all in it together, our political adversaries are our friends and neighbors...politics and the MSM is ruining my vibe

232 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:07:26pm

re: #217 engineer dog

There are two valid reasons manhole covers are round.

The engineering answer is that a round lid will not fall through a slightly smaller round hole no matter how you try to orient it.

The smart (social scientist's) reason is that manholes are round.

233 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:07:48pm

re: #224 wrenchwench

Read it all.

Except the link won't work unless you replace the asterisks.

I know why they work for me in preview but not for others - it works if you open in a new tab. ETA: interesting...even when linked in a new tab, the word is starred out, yet it goes to the link just fine. What magic hath Charles wrought?

As for Coates, it's just a reiteration of what we've been saying for I don't know how many generations.

234 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:08:40pm

re: #186 Obdicut

I wasn't talking about any specific sources, but obviously the analogy is to Breitbart and the right wing blogosphere and LGF. You're trying very hard to prove that LGF 'fell for' a particular story. You have not yet backed up this argument with anything other than an argument of personal incredulity, of course, so you haven't actually shown LGF 'fell' for anything. You also assumed everyone had the same perspective on the story which was wrong-- oddly so.

Well, I've been reading LGF since Rathergate, and I've found more than a few things that if the big C looked a little more closely, he might find they fell into the nontroversy category.

The point of the 99% and 1%, obviously, is to show that saying "Both X and Y have fallen for stories" is a nonsensical argument. Everyone is going to get things wrong. What matters is how often they do.

That's true.

Are you making any sort of contention that LGF gets things wrong as often as Breitbart does?

No. But Breitbart is beyond help, and I don't think LGF is. So why bother wasting my time with Breitbart?

235 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:08:48pm

re: #224 wrenchwench

Read it all.

Except the link won't work unless you replace the asterisks.

Darn that sensitivity filter. Granted, it's easier than policing all the people who would abuse the term if it were permitted, but one should be able to type a word in a non-abusive context and have it be visible. In my opinion, the "n-word" reference gives it more power than it deserves.

236 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:08:48pm

re: #230 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, my father's grandparents, yes, that's one way to look at it.

I do know that archive.org is in the process of scanning the entire census from 1790-onwards. That link I gave can also be helpful but only if you suspect your ancestor took the name of the master. Many did, many did not.

I have the names and dates of some family that left scotland in the mid 1700's. If they make it available to non-us folks it'd be grand.

237 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:09:01pm

re: #232 Decatur Deb

There are two valid reasons manhole covers are round.

The engineering answer is that a round lid will not fall through a slightly smaller round hole no matter how you try to orient it.

The smart (social scientist's) reason is that manholes are round.

a circle is much easier to draw than a square

238 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:10:03pm

re: #233 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I know why they work for me in preview but not for others - it works if you open in a new tab.

As for Coates, it's just a reiteration of what we've been saying for I don't know how many generations.

Yep...the link works fine...good on the Atlantic for having a server that handles a wild-carded url.

239 Kragar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:10:27pm

re: #232 Decatur Deb

There are two valid reasons manhole covers are round.

The engineering answer is that a round lid will not fall through a slightly smaller round hole no matter how you try to orient it.

The smart (social scientist's) reason is that manholes are round.

Roman manhole covers were rectangular.

240 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:10:36pm

re: #237 albusteve

a circle is much easier to draw than a square

Should have told me we were talking about Aggies.

241 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:11:01pm

re: #236 wozzablog

I have the names and dates of some family that left scotland in the mid 1700's. If they make it available to non-us folks it'd be grand.

I suppose you'd have to know where they ended up, but there's quite a bit online already.

[Link: www.archive.org...]

242 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:11:06pm

re: #86 chunkymonkey

We're talking about one of the largest and most influential righty blogs (BigGovt) using the most vile and dishonest race-baiting tactics to slander the president. Day after day, week after week. Indefensible racist garbage.

And your response is that fewer guns were lost than the Brady Campaign initially asserted. Who gives a shit? How is this relevant? In the grand scheme of things, it's a fly on the ass of the gop elephant which is now filled with racists and race baiters. Get your priorities straight. Quit playing penny-ante tu quoque games.

243 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:11:50pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Roman manhole covers were rectangular.

You see where that got them. Today's manholes in Rome are still marked SPQR, Senatus Populusque Romano.

244 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:12:16pm

re: #237 albusteve

a circle is much easier to draw than a square

Oh yeah? Look at those circles...the squares are easier to make out. And yes, I drew those myself.

245 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:12:51pm

re: #240 Decatur Deb

Should have told me we were talking about Aggies.

up in MI, Aggies are called Buckeyes

246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:13:33pm

re: #242 palomino

We're talking about one of the largest and most influential righty blogs (BigGovt) using the most vile and dishonest race-baiting tactics to slander the president. Day after day, week after week. Indefensible racist garbage.

And your response is that fewer guns were lost than the Brady Campaign initially asserted. Who gives a shit? How is this relevant? In the grand scheme of things, it's a fly on the ass of the gop elephant which is now filled with racists and race baiters. Get your priorities straight. Quit playing penny-ante tu quoque games.

Chunkymonkey's posts are valuable.

They are a perfect illustration of what and who permits Breitbart's crap to persist, and why it continues to thrive and fester.

247 Kragar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:13:48pm

re: #243 Decatur Deb

You see where that got them. Today's manholes in Rome are still marked SPQR, Senatus Populusque Romano.

Image: chicago+square+manhole_.jpg

248 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:14:04pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Roman manhole covers were rectangular.

Can we not use "roman" and "manhole" in the same sentence please?

249 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:14:24pm

re: #234 chunkymonkey

Well, I've been reading LGF since Rathergate, and I've found more than a few things that if the big C looked a little more closely, he might find they fell into the nontroversy category.

That's true.

No. But Breitbart is beyond help, and I don't think LGF is. So why bother wasting my time with Breitbart?

Concern troll is concerned.

/Okay, now I'm REALLY ignoring him/her.

250 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:14:52pm

re: #241 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I suppose you'd have to know where they ended up, but there's quite a bit online already.

[Link: www.archive.org...]

The South. Some in SC.

251 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:15:34pm

re: #247 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Image: chicago+square+manhole_.jpg

"Cannot be loaded"--fraud, fake, you breitbarted it.

252 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:15:37pm

re: #232 Decatur Deb

There are two valid reasons manhole covers are round.

The engineering answer is that a round lid will not fall through a slightly smaller round hole no matter how you try to orient it.

The smart (social scientist's) reason is that manholes are round.

i got extra credit for the additional answer that it is much easier for one person to roll a round manhole cover to the truck than it would be to carry one that can't roll. i'd seen city workers rolling them

253 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:17:40pm

re: #249 Atlas Fails

Concern troll is concerned.

/Okay, now I'm REALLY ignoring him/her.

he's contributed far more than you have in this discussion...at least he tries to explain his position and answer his critics....more than I can say for your petty sniping

254 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:17:54pm

re: #252 engineer dog

i got extra credit for the additional answer that it is much easier for one person to roll a round manhole cover to the truck than it would be to carry one that can't roll. i'd seen city workers rolling them

Good point...we threw a "Philly Cheesesteak" party a year or so ago for a bunch of Penn alumni and rented a 36" flat iron grill (rectangular in shape) - and the thing probably weighed well over 100lbs. I had to get that thing UP a flight of concrete steps by myself...rectangles don't roll very well, let me tell you.

255 Kragar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:18:41pm

re: #251 Decatur Deb

"Cannot be loaded"--fraud, fake, you breitbarted it.

Triangles are right out...

Image: triangle-manhole.jpg

DAMN!

256 erik_t  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:19:02pm

re: #254 darthstar

Good point...we threw a "Philly Cheesesteak" party a year or so ago for a bunch of Penn alumni and rented a 36" flat iron grill (rectangular in shape) - and the thing probably weighed well over 100lbs. I had to get that thing UP a flight of concrete steps by myself...rectangles don't roll very well, let me tell you.

Nonsense!

257 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:19:36pm

re: #242 palomino

We're talking about one of the largest and most influential righty blogs (BigGovt) using the most vile and dishonest race-baiting tactics to slander the president. Day after day, week after week. Indefensible racist garbage.

And your response is that fewer guns were lost than the Brady Campaign initially asserted. Who gives a shit? How is this relevant? In the grand scheme of things, it's a fly on the ass of the gop elephant which is now filled with racists and race baiters. Get your priorities straight. Quit playing penny-ante tu quoque games.

Do you have an estimate for the fraction of "conservatives" who are racists and race baiters? I'd like to know what you think.

re: #246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Chunkymonkey's posts are valuable.

They are a perfect illustration of what and who permits Breitbart's crap to persist, and why it continues to thrive and fester.

Permits Breitbart's crap to persist? Moi? You think I could possibly have any influence there? I don't read Big Govt, I don't care about Big Govt, I have a job and a family. How much time do you really expect me to waste there? I post at maybe two other blogs besides this one, and then sparingly most of the time.

258 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:19:42pm

re: #254 darthstar

Good point...we threw a "Philly Cheesesteak" party a year or so ago for a bunch of Penn alumni and rented a 36" flat iron grill (rectangular in shape) - and the thing probably weighed well over 100lbs. I had to get that thing UP a flight of concrete steps by myself...rectangles don't roll very well, let me tell you.

get to the gym...if you can't carry a hundred pounds for 27 miles, you're a puss

259 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:20:37pm

Spent half the day in the jury selection pool, listening to the chatter of our local Foxfans. If you ever face a small town Alabama jury, take the plea--any plea.

260 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:21:07pm

re: #259 Decatur Deb

Spent half the day in the jury selection pool, listening to the chatter of our local Foxfans. If you ever face a small town Alabama jury, take the plea--any plea.

I plead literate! (does that work?)

261 Kragar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:21:44pm

re: #259 Decatur Deb

Spent half the day in the jury selection pool, listening to the chatter of our local Foxfans. If you ever face a small town Alabama jury, take the plea--any plea.

I'll take the church for a year deal, then sue the shit of them for violating my civil rights

262 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:21:55pm

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Triangles are right out...

Image: triangle-manhole.jpg

DAMN!

You could drop that on your buddy's head--is that a concern in NH?

263 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:22:19pm

re: #136 albusteve

whatever he is, he's not a troll...no more than you are

Chunkster immediately went off topic, deflecting the substance of the story for the sole reason of playing the "you guys do it too" game over something minor and completely unrelated (gun control stats? in a story about AB's racism, what's the connection?)

What he did is pretty much the definition of troll.

264 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:23:07pm

I should clear up something about the Manhole covers.. The link showed it on a Google exam.. The first time that question was used was by Microsoft years ago...
Figures Google would steal it

265 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:23:42pm

re: #260 darthstar

I plead literate! (does that work?)

Pretty sure all we jurors had to affirm that we could understand and read English. Wonder when that came in.

266 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:24:02pm

re: #259 Decatur Deb

Spent half the day in the jury selection pool, listening to the chatter of our local Foxfans. If you ever face a small town Alabama jury, take the plea--any plea.

Not according to My Cousin Vinny
/

267 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:26:13pm

re: #265 Decatur Deb

Pretty sure all we jurors had to affirm that we could understand and read English. Wonder when that came in.

I just read 'An Innocent Man' by Grisham....harrowing story of judicial malfeasance

268 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:26:15pm

re: #259 Decatur Deb

Spent half the day in the jury selection pool, listening to the chatter of our local Foxfans. If you ever face a small town Alabama jury, take the plea--any plea.

Your honor, I sentence you to kiss my ass!

269 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:26:18pm

re: #257 chunkymonkey

Do you have an estimate for the fraction of "conservatives" who are racists and race baiters? I'd like to know what you think.

re: #246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Permits Breitbart's crap to persist? Moi? You think I could possibly have any influence there? I don't read Big Govt, I don't care about Big Govt, I have a job and a family. How much time do you really expect me to waste there? I post at maybe two other blogs besides this one, and then sparingly most of the time.

Well, let's see. Polls show that nearly half of conservatives think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim with no valid birth certificate. So, starting there, I'd say about half are racists and race baiters.

270 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:29:04pm

re: #267 albusteve

I just read 'An Innocent Man' by Grisham...harrowing story of judicial malfeasance

I'll know better when I get a whole case, but I don't think Vinny or Jack McCoy would cut it here. (Got booted today because I'm friends with the defense atty.)

271 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:29:16pm

re: #246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Permits Breitbart's crap to persist? Moi?

1- It's not just stupid Breitbart. Breitbart and his Empire of Online Bigots are a symptom of a much larger problem.

2- everyone sees through your deflection/MBF attempt. Why bother trying?

272 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:29:17pm

Great Fox Interview that (obviously) never made it on the air.

Youtube Video
273 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:30:08pm

re: #63 chunkymonkey

Finally, the Brady Campaign is a complete joke. They get very little funding in the way of donations, and pretty much nobody in the country cares about them any more. They've lied and obfuscated the issues too often, predicted blood in the streets too often, and been wrong all of the time.

And yet:

* Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.[11]

[Link: www.justfacts.com...]

274 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:30:19pm

re: #257 chunkymonkey

Do you have an estimate for the fraction of "conservatives" who are racists and race baiters? I'd like to know what you think.

What's your estimate of those who aren't?

Try not to invoke Democrat Party when devising your answer, k?

275 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:30:19pm

I just heard on ESPN that Hank Williams jr. is not allowed to do the opening song on MNF because he made some kind of raciest remark about Obama...
Guess i should find a link..

276 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:30:44pm

re: #269 palomino

Well, let's see. Polls show that nearly half of conservatives think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim with no valid birth certificate. So, starting there, I'd say about half are racists and race baiters.

Really depends whether you mean conservative, which is a term that no longer means what it used to in the US, or Conservative, as in one of the cultists that define themselves by an ideology of hating the left. If it's the first, it's a lot less than half. If the second, a lot more.

277 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:31:03pm

re: #270 Decatur Deb

I'll know better when I get a whole case, but I don't think Vinny or Jack McCoy would cut it here. (Got booted today because I'm friends with the defense atty.)

I walked out of the system when I declared I didn't believe in the notion of hate crimes...they held me in contempt while I laughed at them

278 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:31:21pm

re: #272 darthstar

Great Fox Interview that (obviously) never made it on the air.

[Video]

Okay...why do I have to reinstall flash for a video I just watched?

279 jamesfirecat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:31:40pm

re: #275 HoosierHoops

I just heard on ESPN that Hank Williams jr. is not allowed to do the opening song on MNF because he made some kind of raciest remark about Obama...
Guess i should find a link..

He said that Obama playing Golf with Boehner to "Hitler Playing Golf With Netanyahu"

Media Matters Video
280 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:31:45pm

re: #278 darthstar

Okay...why do I have to reinstall flash for a video I just watched?

Getting that too.

281 prairiefire  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:32:32pm

re: #275 HoosierHoops

I just heard on ESPN that Hank Williams jr. is not allowed to do the opening song on MNF because he made some kind of raciest remark about Obama...
Guess i should find a link..

Here ya go:[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I've always thought his illegitimate 1/2 sister looked more like ol' Hank then he did.

282 darthstar  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:32:52pm

Okay...I realize what happened...I cut off part of the URL

Here's the video

Youtube Video
283 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:33:17pm

re: #279 jamesfirecat

He said that Obama playing Golf with Boehner to "Hitler Playing Golf With Netanyahu"

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Which, considering that Netanyahu was born in 1949, would be quite a feat.

284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:33:39pm

re: #279 jamesfirecat

He said that Obama playing Golf with Boehner to "Hitler Playing Golf With Netanyahu"

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Yeah, he went Godwin on somebody.

I'm sure Eric Holder X Shabazz Malik and the NAACP are being blamed for ESPN's decision e_e

285 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:34:09pm

And nobody got my rowdy friends coming over tonight post.

*sniff*

286 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:34:21pm

re: #279 jamesfirecat

He said that Obama playing Golf with Boehner to "Hitler Playing Golf With Netanyahu"

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

oh my!....earth shattering

287 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:35:20pm

re: #210 EmmmieG

The government knows how you are and where you live. It's called a Driver's License.

Or an electricity bill. Or a veteran's check. Or an employer who must pay SS matching taxes. &c ad infinitum. Removing oneself "from the grid" is difficult, unless you are a cloistered monk.

288 prairiefire  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:35:33pm

re: #285 EmmmieG

And nobody got my rowdy friends coming over tonight post.

*sniff*

{emmie} I didn't know you had rowdy friends.

289 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:35:42pm

re: #279 jamesfirecat

He said that Obama playing Golf with Boehner to "Hitler Playing Golf With Netanyahu"

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Hank Williams is like Ted Nugent's mutant cousin. Uber right wing and very reckless in his statements. But at least those guys are "real Americans" (just ask them, they'll proudly tell you) unlike us fancy pants moderates and liberals with our homo statistics and faggy scientists.

290 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:36:07pm

re: #271 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Should have linked back to #257, not 246.

291 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:36:37pm

re: #287 austin_blue

Or an electricity bill. Or a veteran's check. Or an employer who must pay SS matching taxes. &c ad infinitum. Removing oneself "from the grid" is difficult, unless you are a cloistered monk.

I've tried every angle...the feds are formidable, pretty hard to hide from those guys

292 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:36:48pm

re: #288 prairiefire

{emmie} I didn't know you had rowdy friends.

Are you kidding? I'm going to have about 14 late grade-school/middle-school aged kids here tomorrow.

I actually cancel class when my husband's going to be home, because he grew up in a family with only 2 kids, and can't handle the chaos. I'm the second of seven, so I'm good.

293 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:37:04pm

Some clown on TVTropes is trying to defend his assertion that Mass Immigration is anti-white.

He is of the opinion that immigrants should barred from going into the OECD nations, and they will ruin society.

I decided the best way to deal with him was to compare him to his pal Breivik.

294 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:37:16pm

re: #286 albusteve

oh my!...earth shattering

You're right. We've heard the "Obama is Hitler" BS so much by now it's hardly a blip on the radar screen. Just another day of ODS.

295 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:37:33pm

re: #268 Varek Raith

Your honor, I sentence you to kiss my ass!

Judge kind of scared me, and I'm on his side of the rail. Our courthouse has a little park with a large 'Victim's Memorial Bell', rung to commemorate murder victims. The DA held pro-death penalty speeches there.

296 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:37:46pm

re: #289 palomino

Hank Williams is like Ted Nugent's mutant cousin. Uber right wing and very reckless in his statements. But at least those guys are "real Americans" (just ask them, they'll proudly tell you) unlike us fancy pants moderates and liberals with our homo statistics and faggy scientists.

when you care about what Hank Williams is saying, you have a problem

297 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:39:18pm

re: #269 palomino

Well, let's see. Polls show that nearly half of conservatives think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim with no valid birth certificate. So, starting there, I'd say about half are racists and race baiters.

Another question might be, how many of that 46% of those MS Republicans looking to criminalize interracial marriage are conservatives. /

e_e this game is so stupid.

298 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:39:23pm

re: #269 palomino

Well, let's see. Polls show that nearly half of conservatives think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim with no valid birth certificate. So, starting there, I'd say about half are racists and race baiters.

That makes them racist? It may make them mean, it may make them ignorant, but racist? Please define the term. If someone thought I was a Ukranian Jew would that make the racist? If they thought I was born in Canada would that make them racist?

re: #273 austin_blue

And yet:

* Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.[11]

[Link: www.justfacts.com...]

And that justifies the Brady Campaign how?

299 Digital Display  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:39:49pm

Maybe Hank..(This country boy won't survive).. Hope not.. I'd rather have someone like Faith Hill sing..
Well Lizards.. Have fun..Time to change into my Colts stuff and head to the Lodge so I can be picked on all night...
There isn't even a Colts party tonight in Indiana at Paulies house.. Pretty pathetic

300 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:40:22pm

re: #296 albusteve

when you care about what Hank Williams is saying, you have a problem

But Hank and Ted are regular guest bloggers at AB's Big Hollywood site. How can I not care what great minds like these have to say on the pressing issues of the day? Same reason I never miss an article from noted sociologist Chuck Norris.

301 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:40:31pm

re: #294 palomino

You're right. We've heard the "Obama is Hitler" BS so much by now it's hardly a blip on the radar screen. Just another day of ODS.

Right, just like we heard that Bush was Hitler every minute. Welcome to the club!

302 austin_blue  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:41:18pm

re: #291 albusteve

I've tried every angle...the feds are formidable, pretty hard to hide from those guys

Hey, Steve. Just got back from seeing my mom up in Baltimore. End stage dementia. She'll probably pass in the next day or two. Got to say my goodbyes with She Who Must be Obeyed. We went through it with both her parents here in Texas.

Bless my youngest sister, who has performed yeoman labor in shepherding my mom to this point. Mom's a dear soul. Please hold her in your thoughts.

303 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:42:01pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

Right, just like we heard that Bush was Hitler every minute. Welcome to the club!

Of course you neglect to mention that the Dem party marginalized those nutters.
While your party embraces them.
Funny, that.

304 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:42:32pm

re: #293 ProLifeLiberal

Some clown on TVTropes is trying to defend his assertion that Mass Immigration is anti-white.

He is of the opinion that immigrants should barred from going into the OECD nations, and they will ruin society.

I decided the best way to deal with him was to compare him to his pal Breivik.

Breivik will do. But there's no need to go all the way to Norway for that, when that mentality has been around since at least 1790.

Plus, he got most of his ideas from conservative American bigots, anyway.

305 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:42:45pm

Oy, I should turn off auto complete.

306 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:42:53pm

The people who actually buy Williams' music won't care that he said this.

307 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:43:08pm

re: #302 austin_blue

Hey, Steve. Just got back from seeing my mom up in Baltimore. End stage dementia. She'll probably pass in the next day or two. Got to say my goodbyes with She Who Must be Obeyed. We went through it with both her parents here in Texas.

Bless my youngest sister, who has performed yeoman labor in shepherding my mom to this point. Mom's a dear soul. Please hold her in your thoughts.

consider it done

308 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:43:27pm

re: #298 chunkymonkey

And people wonder why Ta Nehsi Coates gave up on "conversations about race".

I did, years ago.

Why bother.

309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:45:19pm

re: #306 EmmmieG

The people who actually buy Williams' music won't care that he said this.

Hell, I don't even care that he said it. lol

But I'm not a high-up at ESPN, so...

310 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:45:39pm

re: #298 chunkymonkey

That makes them racist? It may make them mean, it may make them ignorant, but racist? Please define the term. If someone thought I was a Ukranian Jew would that make the racist? If they thought I was born in Canada would that make them racist?

re: #273 austin_blue

And that justifies the Brady Campaign how?

It makes them xenophobes at least, and that's a form of racism. There's absolutely no evidence that Obama is Kenyan, Muslim, without a birth certificate, etc. And yet these folks hold on tightly to such beliefs. What aspect of their personalities would you ascribe such irrational behavior to? I would ascribe it to prejudice.

Do you really want to put yourself in a position of defending extremists who think the president isn't even an American Christian? Knock yourself out.

311 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:45:39pm

re: #306 EmmmieG

The people who actually buy Williams' music won't care that he said this.

99% of Americans could care less about that shit...Hitler is all over the place now days, ho hum

312 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:45:39pm

re: #293 ProLifeLiberal

Some clown on TVTropes is trying to defend his assertion that Mass Immigration is anti-white.

He is of the opinion that immigrants should barred from going into the OECD nations, and they will ruin society.

I decided the best way to deal with him was to compare him to his pal Breivik.

I don't know what TV Tropes is, but I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that if immigration was closed to everyone except white Christian Europeans, then there'd suddenly be a whole slew of people who would no longer be anti-immigrant. They might even want the numbers increased to stave off the "browning" of America.

Did I mention that I'm in a piss poor mood today? //

313 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:46:48pm

re: #302 austin_blue

Hey, Steve. Just got back from seeing my mom up in Baltimore. End stage dementia. She'll probably pass in the next day or two. Got to say my goodbyes with She Who Must be Obeyed. We went through it with both her parents here in Texas.

Bless my youngest sister, who has performed yeoman labor in shepherding my mom to this point. Mom's a dear soul. Please hold her in your thoughts.

Dementia is a bear. My father had it; wasn't pretty. Wishing you and her the best during her transition.

314 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:47:13pm

re: #312 CuriousLurker

Did I mention that I'm in a piss poor mood today? //

{CuriousLurker}

315 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:47:28pm

re: #304 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I figure linking an infamous recent terrorist will have a bigger effect.

But I do see your your point. Fortunately, with one exception, the rest of the TVTropes thread is of my opinion, though less harsh.

316 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:48:07pm

re: #302 austin_blue

I'm sorry to hear about your mom. {{austin_blue}}

317 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:49:03pm

re: #314 wozzablog

Thanks, wozza. ;)

318 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:50:45pm

re: #315 ProLifeLiberal

I figure linking an infamous recent terrorist will have a bigger effect.

TBH? I doubt either method will have any effect. lol

Might as well write down both, esp since Breivik was just imitating our deathwish-for-liberals bigots, anyway. /cynicism

319 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:50:54pm

re: #312 CuriousLurker

You okay?

TVTropes is a nice place. The forum is where this one guy took a shit.

Not a good site if you have something to do. You WILL get sidetracked. Therefore, it is not linked here.

320 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:51:20pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

Right, just like we heard that Bush was Hitler every minute. Welcome to the club!

Why don't you talk about the present, instead of a past you can't get over? Is calling Obama "Hitler" today justified because a dumbass on the left did it FIVE years ago?

And I don't remember Bush being accused of being a stealth jihadist born in Kenya, trained by radicals at a madrassa in Indonesia in order to infiltrate and destroy our govt from within.

321 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:52:13pm

re: #320 palomino

Fortunately, he just let the mask fall off. He is a mouth-breather Teabagger.

322 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:53:26pm

re: #320 palomino

Why don't you talk about the present, instead of a past you can't get over? Is calling Obama "Hitler" today justified because a dumbass on the left did it FIVE years ago?

And I don't remember Bush being accused of being a stealth jihadist born in Kenya, trained by radicals at a madrassa in Indonesia in order to infiltrate and destroy our govt from within.

the left trashed Bush without mercy...there is always another step to take...when you defend one party over another, it always bites you in the ass

323 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:54:12pm

re: #310 palomino

It makes them xenophobes at least, and that's a form of racism. There's absolutely no evidence that Obama is Kenyan, Muslim, without a birth certificate, etc. And yet these folks hold on tightly to such beliefs. What aspect of their personalities would you ascribe such irrational behavior to? I would ascribe it to prejudice.

Racism may be a form of xenophobia, but I don't think it works the other way around. Methinks you are using the term "racist" too loosely. This is one issue in particular that has always irked me about some on the left, the constant misuse of "racist" and "racism."

Do you really want to put yourself in a position of defending extremists who think the president isn't even an American Christian? Knock yourself out.

I am not defending them in the least, I am merely defending language and logic. If the term racist can be used to mean someone I don't like, then the term is useless.

The president is an American Christian, end of story.

324 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:55:26pm

re: #320 palomino

Why don't you talk about the present, instead of a past you can't get over? Is calling Obama "Hitler" today justified because a dumbass on the left did it FIVE years ago?

And I don't remember Bush being accused of being a stealth jihadist born in Kenya, trained by radicals at a madrassa in Indonesia in order to infiltrate and destroy our govt from within.

I don't remember any snuff films being made depicting the assassination of Obama. You are acting as if this sort of behavior is unique to the right, and I am only pointing out that it is not.

325 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:55:27pm

re: #313 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Dementia is a bear. My father had it; wasn't pretty. Wishing you and her the best during her transition.

Just went through that in my family. My Dad finally died at 90 from Alzheimer's dementia related complications. But the fact is we all felt like we'd pretty much lost him 4 years earlier when he became unable to communicate...it's tough to watch and elicits all sorts of mixed feelings.

326 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:56:06pm

re: #319 ProLifeLiberal

You okay?

TVTropes is a nice place. The forum is where this one guy took a shit.

Not a good site if you have something to do. You WILL get sidetracked. Therefore, it is not linked here.

Ah, okay regarding TVTropes.

I'm fine, I just woke up in a pissy, anti-social mood. One of those days. Thanks for asking though. ;)

327 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:57:58pm

re: #323 chunkymonkey

I am merely defending language and logic.

lmao

328 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:58:23pm

re: #325 palomino

Just went through that in my family. My Dad finally died at 90 from Alzheimer's dementia related complications. But the fact is we all felt like we'd pretty much lost him 4 years earlier when he became unable to communicate...it's tough to watch and elicits all sorts of mixed feelings.

I whipped my dad's ass in cribbage one evening...he got up to go rest and died the next day....profound heartbreak, almost debilitating for me...I could hardly breath for a month

329 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:58:32pm

Ah, a little tu quoque after dinner...good for digestion.

330 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:58:33pm

re: #322 albusteve

the left trashed Bush without mercy...there is always another step to take...when you defend one party over another, it always bites you in the ass

I guess once a precedent gets set, it's hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. We'll see it with the next gop prez when the Dems obstruct everything he tries to do. They've upped the ante, it will bite them in the ass.

Anyway, I find the ODS particularly repugnant due to its overwhelming racism and xenophobia.

331 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:59:22pm

re: #302 austin_blue

Sorry to hear that man.

My continued best regards to you and yours at this most trying of times

332 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 4:59:53pm

By election day, the entire right blogosphere will be falling for stories that Obama is actually literally Malcolm X, who invented a time machine and plastic surgery so that he could replace barack obama and end the world

I think the idea is first malcolm X goes to the year 3000, I'm still working on a treatment

333 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:00:19pm

re: #321 ProLifeLiberal

Fortunately, he just let the mask fall off. He is a mouth-breather Teabagger.

And one of many reasons anti-Black and anti-immigrant race hysteria still permeates the states rights crowd. They thrive on it, have no intention of curtailing it, and intend to keep benefiting from it.

334 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:00:57pm

re: #298 chunkymonkey

That makes them racist? It may make them mean, it may make them ignorant, but racist? Please define the term. If someone thought I was a Ukranian Jew would that make the racist? If they thought I was born in Canada would that make them racist?

re: #273 austin_blue

And that justifies the Brady Campaign how?

You read a lot of Ayn Rand as a teenager, didn't you

335 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:02:49pm

re: #323 chunkymonkey

Racism may be a form of xenophobia, but I don't think it works the other way around. Methinks you are using the term "racist" too loosely. This is one issue in particular that has always irked me about some on the left, the constant misuse of "racist" and "racism."

I am not defending them in the least, I am merely defending language and logic. If the term racist can be used to mean someone I don't like, then the term is useless.

The president is an American Christian, end of story.

Racism and xenophobia are inextricably linked. You really think I'm using the terms too loosely to describe people who honestly(?) believe and continually posit that the president is a bunch of things he clearly isn't: Kenyan, Muslim, pro-terrorist, non-citizen. Would this angle have ever come up if he were a white guy? Answer is NO, so yeah, I think racism is involved.

336 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:03:09pm

re: #330 palomino

I guess once a precedent gets set, it's hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. We'll see it with the next gop prez when the Dems obstruct everything he tries to do. They've upped the ante, it will bite them in the ass.

Anyway, I find the ODS particularly repugnant due to its overwhelming racism and xenophobia.

most people do I think...this unrestrained day and age of blogs and the MSM is frightening...I have never posted one word of negative comment about BO personally, yet I'm always accused of the BDS gig...it's in the air and it's not going away...just how bad it can get is anybodies guess...I expect the worst from both sides

337 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:03:27pm

re: #327 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

lmao

Fine, but I certainly wasn't defending extremists who think the president isn't even an American Christian. palomino offered no evidence to the contrary.

338 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:04:09pm

re: #323 chunkymonkey

If the term racist can be used to mean someone I don't like, then the term is useless.

So it's just a coincidence that they're in denial about the first black president's legitimacy, and substituting a smoked up fantasy for his well established and documented origin? The motive has nothing to do with race huh, could've happened to anyone but please never mind that it didn't. How credulous are you?

339 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:04:42pm

re: #337 chunkymonkey

You're not ready for this conversation.

340 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:05:25pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

Right, just like we heard that Bush was Hitler every minute. Welcome to the club!

i don't remember anybody on the blogs i hung out on calling bush hitler. too boring

mostly we called him "chimpy"

341 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:05:55pm

re: #324 chunkymonkey

I don't remember any snuff films being made depicting the assassination of Obama. You are acting as if this sort of behavior is unique to the right, and I am only pointing out that it is not.

I don't think you know what a snuff film really is.

Yeah, I get it, liberals do bad shit too. So what? Do I need to include a disclaimer with every statement I make about mistreatment of Obama? Or should I just ignore the prejudice involved in calling him a Muslim jihadist who hates America and was born in Kenya, blah blah.

342 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:07:23pm

re: #333 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I just put this on that TVTropes discussion. I is proud of of it! ^_^

You might want to listen to "Listen Mr. Bilbo." I recommend the Peter, Paul, and Mary version.

And you accuse me of ignorance? Simply assuming a person can't assimilate based off of skin color, faith, or place of birth. In my experience the Pakistani and Arab friends I have a far better Americans then many of my fellow white people, with the Tea Party being the Most Triumphant Example of what I speak. I'd much rather have 30 million of those people I've met then those Primitive Tea Partiers.

Besides, the US isn't based of a single nationality or culture. So your idea falls there. And Canada seems to be having less issues on race then my nation is, so your edged out there.

In addition, after the massacre at Utoya, people have woken up to the bigotry of your ideas in Europe. The Danish People's Party and the Progress Party got trashed.

What you are rhetorically doing is the equivalent of the "I have a black friend" that so many in the US do.

Give me MultiCulti anyday over Chavs and Tea Partiers.

343 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:07:50pm

I think the reaction to the Kenyan gig is every bit as notorius as the initial accusations....that's a blog for ya

344 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:08:01pm

re: #324 chunkymonkey

I don't remember any snuff films being made depicting the assassination of Obama. You are acting as if this sort of behavior is unique to the right, and I am only pointing out that it is not.

Films? No.
They just show up with guns and signs that we may need to water the tree of liberty.

345 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:08:10pm

re: #340 engineer dog

i don't remember anybody on the blogs i hung out on calling bush hitler. too boring

mostly we called him "chimpy"

Maybe not where you "hung out", and I know it wasn't where I hung out, but there was plenty of it out there. Enough that I knew'/ heard about it

[Link: www.google.com...]

346 prairiefire  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:09:08pm

re: #328 albusteve

When my mom was in a car accident 25 years ago, I was almost fainting every 5 minutes. She, my pops, and my step-mom are all ok right now, but it will be Hell on earth when the time comes.

347 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:10:00pm

Time for the patented GOP pity party!

348 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:11:30pm

re: #336 albusteve

most people do I think...this unrestrained day and age of blogs and the MSM is frightening...I have never posted one word of negative comment about BO personally, yet I'm always accused of the BDS gig...it's in the air and it's not going away...just how bad it can get is anybodies guess...I expect the worst from both sides

The internet opens things up way beyond previous electronic communication, now everyone's voice can be heard. This is both its upside and downside. But I think there's potential for even more factual distortion than in the past, and more whipping people into a frenzy, is a major cause for concern.

349 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:12:25pm

re: #341 palomino

I don't think you know what a snuff film really is.

Yeah, I get it, liberals do bad shit too. So what? Do I need to include a disclaimer with every statement I make about mistreatment of Obama? Or should I just ignore the prejudice involved in calling him a Muslim jihadist who hates America and was born in Kenya, blah blah.

RACE CARD

BROAD BRUSH!!

You are A RACIST for pointing out that Real Americans call him those things!!!

350 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:13:04pm

And that stupid Bush Assassination film wasn't even American.

351 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:13:16pm

re: #346 prairiefire

When my mom was in a car accident 25 years ago, I was almost fainting every 5 minutes. She, my pops, and my step-mom are all ok right now, but it will be Hell on earth when the time comes.

well...you deal with it or you don't...there is no course, or advice or clue...you just deal with it the best you can...internally I was ripped apart, but tried not to show it...if I appeared too soft my dad would have been pissed...you forge ahead

352 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:14:13pm

re: #348 palomino

now everyone's voice can be heard.

Problem is, (imho) most of them are anonymous which leads to bravado

353 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:14:43pm

re: #352 sattv4u2

now everyone's voice can be heard.

Problem is, (imho) most of them are anonymous which leads to bravado

Image: 215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg

354 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:15:03pm

I just watched 10 minutes of "Terranova"

Teh Suck.

355 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:15:35pm

re: #348 palomino

The internet opens things up way beyond previous electronic communication, now everyone's voice can be heard. This is both its upside and downside. But I think there's potential for even more factual distortion than in the past, and more whipping people into a frenzy, is a major cause for concern.

I think the net favors fraud and deceit...it's just too easy to manipulate a mind that screams 'do me!'

356 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:15:46pm

re: #349 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm a racist just like Herman Cain/////, who got kicked in the ass today for his radical assertion that a word like "Ni**erhead" might be racially insensitive.

357 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:16:23pm

re: #354 Alouette

I just watched 10 minutes of "Terranova"

Teh Suck.

Why do the networks even attempt scifi anymore?
They all get canned in a season or half a one.

358 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:16:31pm

re: #342 ProLifeLiberal

Someone just went farther than I did.

They accused the guy of being against inter-racial dating. Which is probably true.

359 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:16:57pm

re: #338 goddamnedfrank

So it's just a coincidence that they're in denial about the first black president's legitimacy, and substituting a smoked up fantasy for his well established and documented origin? The motive has nothing to do with race huh, could've happened to anyone but please never mind that it didn't. How credulous are you?

The folks in question may be racists and may motivated by their prejudice, but the claim: Obama is a Kenyan Muslim with no valid birth certificate is not so.

Like I wrote earlier, would someone here please provide concrete definition of racist and racism. It is impossible to proceed without one. I've read the wiki page for racist / racism and I don't see how it applies to the claim above.

360 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:16:58pm

re: #341 palomino

I don't think you know what a snuff film really is.

Yeah, I get it, liberals do bad shit too. So what? Do I need to include a disclaimer with every statement I make about mistreatment of Obama? Or should I just ignore the prejudice involved in calling him a Muslim jihadist who hates America and was born in Kenya, blah blah.

Well, the obvious thing to do is to realise that liberals are evil, and hate liberals. And when real Americans say unfortunate things about liberals, well, that's regrettable, but I mean, those liberals do deserve it. If they wouldn't be so liberal, we wouldn't have to hate them so much.

It's really simple.

361 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:17:15pm

re: #357 Varek Raith

Why do the networks even attempt scifi anymore?
They all get canned in a season or half a one.

for people like you...duh?

362 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:18:10pm

re: #352 sattv4u2

now everyone's voice can be heard.

Problem is, (imho) most of them are anonymous which leads to bravado

No question about that. Think of all the things you hear said in person about others behind their backs. Throw in the pure anonymity of the net and total lack of accountability and things get magnified 1000 times.

363 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:18:23pm

re: #357 Varek Raith

Why do the networks even attempt scifi anymore?
They all get canned in a season or half a one.

I turned it on expecting to see "House" but that's been moved up an hour.

364 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:18:25pm

re: #361 albusteve

for people like you...duh?

Meh, I watch them and they go byebye.
Scifi is just dead in the US I suppose.
Oh well.

365 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:18:28pm

Back to Hank, Jr. for a second. Here's the quote he ended the Fox interview with:

They’re the enemy… Obama! And Biden! Are you kidding? The Three Stooges.”

The guy can't even add one plus one, and Fox & Friends are asking him about politics?

So much for that joke about musicians only being able to count to four.

366 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:18:45pm

Note: Kenyan isn't a race. Muslim isn't a race. And not American isn't a race. According to wikipedia:

Racism is the belief that different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.

367 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:18:50pm

re: #357 Varek Raith

Why do the networks even attempt scifi anymore?
They all get canned in a season or half a one.

Just filler so that important shows like American Idle and Fat People Losing Weight can tape more shows!

368 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:19:38pm

re: #367 sattv4u2

Just filler so that important shows like American Idle and Fat People Losing Weight can tape more shows!

Networks love "reality" TV! Because they don't have to pay actors and writers!

369 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:20:12pm

re: #359 chunkymonkey

The folks in question may be racists and may motivated by their prejudice, but the claim: Obama is a Kenyan Muslim with no valid birth certificate is not so.

Like I wrote earlier, would someone here please provide concrete definition of racist and racism. It is impossible to proceed without one. I've read the wiki page for racist / racism and I don't see how it applies to the claim above.

do a gut check...who cares what others think...needing a definition is bullshit, it's hardly complicated

370 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:20:33pm

re: #368 Alouette

Networks love "reality" TV! Because they don't have to pay actors and writers!

True at the start

But they wouldn;t STAY in love with them without ratings

371 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:20:44pm

re: #365 makeitstop

He can't even count to three.

What a moron.

372 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:20:53pm

re: #369 albusteve

do a gut check...who cares what others think...needing a definition is bullshit, it's hardly complicated

I've been meaning to ask.
How's the recovery coming along?

373 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:21:10pm

re: #371 ProLifeLiberal

He can't even count to three.

What a moron.

Or as Curly would say

What a maroon!

374 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:21:20pm

re: #356 palomino

Rick n*****head Ranch Perry will probably end up on the R ticket, and none of the cons will say one single peep about it. Instead, they will do like Breitbart and yap about B. HUSSEIN Malik Shabazz Obama Soetero X and the racists in the Eric Holder X Department of Black Justice Reparations Revenge.

People like chunkymunky will chime in with non-sequiturs about guns, and call himself concerned with language and logic.

And no other presidential candidates will be asked their opinion on N-head Ranch by the press, either.

375 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:21:26pm

re: #364 Varek Raith

Meh, I watch them and they go byebye.
Scifi is just dead in the US I suppose.
Oh well.

you watch them...that's the point of measuring ratings, you are part of the process

376 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:22:01pm

re: #373 sattv4u2

Or as Curly would say

What a maroon!

Wasn't that Bugs Bunny?

377 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:22:24pm

re: #366 chunkymonkey

And now your trying to justify bigotry.

Attacking anyone of the three still makes you a bastard. And I would argue the meaning of race in the US has changed. Remember how badly the Irish, and Southern and Eastern Europeans were treated in the past.

378 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:22:54pm

re: #375 albusteve

you watch them...that's the point of measuring ratings, you are part of the process

True. And they know the little viewers they get ar not enough to cover costs.
So what do they do?
Try the same thing again!
Only to be shocked it didn't work.(again!)
Hey, let's try that again, again!
:)

379 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:23:06pm

re: #376 makeitstop

Wasn't that Bugs Bunny?

Curly HOWARD said it also

gggrr ,, thank God for the eraser

380 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:23:13pm

re: #373 sattv4u2

I haven't seen much of the Three Stooges.

Thanks for improving my statement! ^_^

381 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:23:25pm

re: #372 Varek Raith

I've been meaning to ask.
How's the recovery coming along?

too slow for me...I still cannot walk without assistance...but I'm pounding it out at the gym everyday and have to keep looking ahead...what a trip it's been

382 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:23:40pm

re: #380 ProLifeLiberal

I haven't seen much of the Three Stooges.

Thanks for improving my statement! ^_^

You really should
It's comedy gold.

383 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:24:00pm

re: #365 makeitstop

Back to Hank, Jr. for a second. Here's the quote he ended the Fox interview with:

They're the enemy.

That's, like, the entire Conservative cult faith boiled down to a three word mantra. That's the entirety of Conservative ideology right there, the same thing that FOX and the cult media in general have pushed for thirty years.

And now, in addition to a small but significant hate cult, we have ordinary Americans trying very hard to justify why they have this knee-jerk, deep seated loathing of their fellow Americans. Because they're the enemy.

384 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:24:02pm

re: #366 chunkymonkey

Note: Kenyan isn't a race. Muslim isn't a race. And not American isn't a race. According to wikipedia:

OK, Prof. Philology. How about the terms prejudiced and xenophobic? Why don't you parse those for us too? Do you really think Americans would be as likely to believe the Muslim Kenyan non-citizen lies if the guy was white and had a middle name like Walker or Milhous?

385 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:25:17pm

re: #382 Varek Raith

I'm too busy with the New Who.

386 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:26:00pm

re: #385 ProLifeLiberal

I'm too busy with the New Who.

He's on first.
/

387 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:26:52pm

re: #385 ProLifeLiberal

I'm too busy with the New Who.

Will it last longer than New Coke??

388 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:27:08pm

re: #385 ProLifeLiberal

I'm too busy with the New Who.

I liked the Old Who better. You know, when more than 2 of the original 4 were alive.

389 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:28:32pm

re: #388 palomino

I liked the Old Who better. You know, when more than 2 of the original 4 were alive.

if Kieth Moon is your drummer and he dies, it's over...period

390 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:30:30pm

re: #388 palomino

New Who is great. Some bad episodes are certainly there (Love and Monsters), but I love it.

Also, Karen Gillan is the visual equivalent of a Starburst.

Edit: I should have stated earlier I was referring to Doctor Who.

391 prairiefire  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:31:33pm

re: #390 ProLifeLiberal

Is it a TV show?

392 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:31:43pm

re: #389 albusteve

if Kieth Moon is your drummer and he dies, it's over...period

That's why Led Zep did it right, IMO.

Bonzo died, and they didn't even try to replace him, just said 'That's that. Thank you all, and good night.'

393 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:33:04pm

re: #384 palomino

OK, Prof. Philology. How about the terms prejudiced and xenophobic? Why don't you parse those for us too? Do you really think Americans would be as likely to believe the Muslim Kenyan non-citizen lies if the guy was white and had a middle name like Walker or Milhous?

It's like trying to have a rational conversation with a Holocaust denier, who knows nothing about the topic yet is convinced that the existing historical record is all lies.

You can't even talk about what happened this morning to people like that, much less the history of a country.

394 palomino  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:33:07pm

re: #389 albusteve

if Kieth Moon is your drummer and he dies, it's over...period

Which became painfully obvious over the next few years and their last two studio albums. Phil Collins supposedly wanted to join as Moon's replacement in the late 70's, as the original Genesis was falling apart with Peter Gabriel leaving. Although Collins was a gifted drummer, I don't think it would have worked...can't see him getting along well with Townshend and Daltrey...too many guys who wanted to be lead singer and write songs. But who knows? Probably couldn't have been worse than the Kenney Jones years.

395 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:33:53pm

re: #391 prairiefire

I was refering to Doctor Who.

It was canceled for about a decade between the 90's and early 2000's.

The Show before Cancellation=Old Who

The Show since restoration=New Who

396 albusteve  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:34:24pm

re: #392 makeitstop

That's why Led Zep did it right, IMO.

Bonzo died, and they didn't even try to replace him, just said 'That's that. Thank you all, and good night.'

what else can you do?...musicians like that, who contribute so much to the sound are simply not replacable...folding is the right thing to do...anything else is usually an insult

397 prairiefire  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:39:11pm

re: #395 ProLifeLiberal

I was refering to Doctor Who.

It was canceled for about a decade between the 90's and early 2000's.

The Show before Cancellation=Old Who

The Show since restoration=New Who

We just watched the season ender today. I'm ready for a new Dr. The latest guy looks a bit like Frankenstein. Also ~ the Brits can not resist a love story even if they tried.

398 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:40:17pm

The standard conservative trope... be very, very scared of black people... Tell lies if the rubes aren't scared enough. Besmirch the anniversary of a civil rights victory in the process.

But they aren't racists...

My ass.

399 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:43:55pm

re: #397 prairiefire

the Brits can not resist a love story even if they tried.

So true, so so true.

400 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:46:33pm

re: #398 LudwigVanQuixote

Those dumb confederates know their privileges are unearned, and have come at our expense. That kind of guilt results in extremely pathological behavior, especially towards those they are now officially powerless to legally suppress.

Nauseating, but predictable as the sunrise.

401 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:49:25pm

re: #399 wozzablog

re: #397 prairiefire

To me, this is a plus. I can't explain why I like love in stories.

It's why I hated Final Fantasy 12. No love story, or much about the characters for that matter. It was horribly dry.

402 prairiefire  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 5:55:50pm

re: #401 ProLifeLiberal

Have you read "Jane Eyre", "Wuthering Heights? "A Room With A View", both story and film. The list goes on and on.
I would recommend the "Jane Eyre" with Toby Stevens:[Link: www.amazon.com...]

403 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:16:02pm

re: #190 EmmmieG

Well, speaking as a genealogist who has spent time looking over censuses (censii?) from many different years, it isn't entirely accurate, either.

It's self-reported, so it says what the individual told the census worker.

I had one ancestor who, bless her soul, aged 3 years between censii.

That goes a long way back. Researchers looking at the fifteenth century census data from Northern Italy have noticed that girls tend to turn eighteen and then stay eighteen--sometimes for several years--until they get married.

404 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:19:43pm

re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist

That goes a long way back. Researchers looking at the fifteenth century census data from Northern Italy have noticed that girls tend to turn eighteen and then stay eighteen--sometimes for several years--until they get married.

Always wanted to know how many Italian girls were named 'Beatrice' in 1330, as opposed to 1300.

405 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:20:30pm

re: #234 chunkymonkey

Well, I've been reading LGF since Rathergate, and I've found more than a few things that if the big C looked a little more closely, he might find they fell into the nontroversy category.

A word of advice--when you find one of those things, show up on the thread discussing them, or in the pages, and present your evidence. Do so in a pleasant and nonaggressive manner. A possible opening "I've been looking into this, and I'm not sure it's as big a deal as all that," or "You know, based on this, I think..."

People may agree with you, or not. Some folks will probably agree with you and others won't. But you won't end up battling your way down a thread that has nothing to do with what you're talking about, and you won't give people the idea it's an attack on the blog and them personally.

406 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:21:34pm

re: #248 darthstar

Can we not use "roman" and "manhole" in the same sentence please?

The Romans would have told you that you meant 'Greek' in that sentence.

407 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:34:12pm

re: #298 chunkymonkey

That makes them racist? It may make them mean, it may make them ignorant, but racist? Please define the term. If someone thought I was a Ukranian Jew would that make the racist? If they thought I was born in Canada would that make them racist?

re: #273 austin_blue

And that justifies the Brady Campaign how?

If you explained kindly that you were a Polish Catholic, and not born in Canada, and they refused to believe you, and in fact openly said you were lying, and tried to change the law so they could demand more proof you weren't a Ukrainian Jew, plus they wanted to take your job away because you were a Ukrainian Jew from Canada, yes, I'd say you might start to wonder about them.

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:35:00pm

re: #301 chunkymonkey

Right, just like we heard that Bush was Hitler every minute. Welcome to the club!

Clinton was accused of murder before that...regardless, do you think this is a healthy environment?

409 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:35:38pm

re: #306 EmmmieG

The people who actually buy Williams' music won't care that he said this.

Well, it's Williams Sr.'s, so I might have bought it.

410 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:39:29pm

re: #320 palomino

Why don't you talk about the present, instead of a past you can't get over? Is calling Obama "Hitler" today justified because a dumbass on the left did it FIVE years ago?

And I don't remember Bush being accused of being a stealth jihadist born in Kenya, trained by radicals at a madrassa in Indonesia in order to infiltrate and destroy our govt from within.

Although that might have made him more interesting...

411 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:40:51pm

re: #354 Alouette

I just watched 10 minutes of "Terranova"

Teh Suck.

My husband is not impressed with it, but is watching it because he believes he must encourage the networks in all moves toward science fiction.

412 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:41:22pm

re: #359 chunkymonkey

The folks in question may be racists and may motivated by their prejudice, but the claim: Obama is a Kenyan Muslim with no valid birth certificate is not so.

Like I wrote earlier, would someone here please provide concrete definition of racist and racism. It is impossible to proceed without one. I've read the wiki page for racist / racism and I don't see how it applies to the claim above.

Like pornography, I know it when I see it.

413 chunkymonkey  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 8:10:03pm

re: #369 albusteve

do a gut check...who cares what others think...needing a definition is bullshit, it's hardly complicated

Right, argument by gut check. Not helpful when your gut check gives different results than mine.

re: #377 ProLifeLiberal

And now your trying to justify bigotry.

Say what? I'm hardly justifying bigotry. In fact, I'm condemning it.

re: #412 SanFranciscoZionist

Like pornography, I know it when I see it.

Good for you, but it makes not for civil discourse between people with differing opinions.

414 Kronocide  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 8:25:14pm

re: #13 chunkymonkey

I guess that makes up for LGF falling for fake stories by Think Progress and the Brady Campaign.

What the fuck is your deal? Are you 16?

415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 8:59:47pm

re: #377 ProLifeLiberal

Say what? I'm hardly justifying bigotry. In fact, I'm condemning it.

Now you're just lying.

Anyone could have predicted that, though.

416 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:02:43pm

re: #415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

This was a reply to #413.


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