Pamela Geller Associate John Jay Calls for Mass Murder, Then Feels Abandoned

The anti-Muslim movement goes too far and whines about it
Wingnuts • Views: 34,917

Yea, verily. The End Times approach-eth.

LGF linked at ThinkProgress: Pam Geller Linked Anti-Muslim Activist Calls For Mass Murder Of Congressmen, Muslims, Liberals And Journalists (Updated).

Pamela Geller’s business associate John Jay has a pretty hilarious rant about me at his site, too:

summer patriot, winter soldier: start the revolution …

apparently things are really very slow at little green footballs.  charles johnson, head pukka there, has responded to the little post herein-below breathlessly announcing that i am advocating mass murder.  the lizards of course, denounce me as deranged.  (well, even the blind hog finds an occasional acorn.  laughing.)

And tonight he’s feeling abandoned by his fascist friends Geller and Spencer, who are letting him twist in the wind, and he vows that:

from this day forth, i will write no more forever ….

Related
UPDATE at 10/4/11 6:16:02 pm

Here’s why Mr. Jay is feeling abandoned by his erstwhile associates: Spencer And Geller Disavow Anti-Muslim Activist’s Call For Violence, Say He Was Never A Board Member.

Geller and Spencer are desperately trying to distance themselves, but John Jay’s signature is on the Articles of Incorporation of the “American Freedom Defense Initiative.”

Jump to bottom

1031 comments
1 darthstar  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:03:53pm

John Jay...known to his friends as JJ...Dy-no-mite!

2 Mocking Jay  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:04:08pm
at best, a lone voice in the wilderness.

Yes. Fringe. Just as we said. Glad we could come together on that point.

3 [deleted]  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:04:14pm
5 darthstar  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:05:26pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Spencer And Geller Disavow Anti-Muslim Activist’s Call For Violence, Say He Was Never A Board Member

This is why it would suck to be Geller's kid.

6 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:08:38pm

A Chief Joseph reference from a man with a crusade-boner. Maybe he was attempting wry humor or something.

7 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:09:16pm

John J. Jay makes no fine distinctions.

“every person in islam, from man to woman to child may be our executioner. … there are no innocents in islam. … there is no innocence in islam. all of islam is at war with us, and … all of islam is/are combatant[s.] … islam has established without intellectual doubt that there are no innocent muslims, that the myth of the ‘moderate muslim’ is precisely that, and that muslims are no more entitled to exemption or protection from retaliation that [sic] any of the other ‘non-innocent’ combatants in the world. … there are no innocent muslims. islam is subject to killing on grounds of political expediency on the same basis as islam kills its victims, and islam cannot ethically and morally claim otherwise.”
— From his website, July 14, 2010

SPLC on The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle

8 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:09:44pm

OT already (sorry folks)

West Virgina Governors Race - AP calls Democratic win.

E.Tomblin has 50% on 60% returns.

9 Lidane  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:11:17pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Spencer And Geller Disavow Anti-Muslim Activist’s Call For Violence, Say He Was Never A Board Member

Because people who aren't on the board sign the incorporation papers.

10 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:13:34pm

The fringe has many a point on it - it's a Mandelbrot set of points - and this portion of the fringe ends with John Jay. Another ends with Geller and Spencer. They're extremists - just in different shades. Some others cover up their extremism better than others. Geller and Spencer have gotten where they have because they couched their hate and venom better than others.

But here? Geller and Spencer will go on as though nothing happened. They'll stand by their disavowals and denials and continue along their merry way. And this guy, John Jay, claims he wont write again - but who's to say he wont find himself another alias and write anew.

Occasionally they get a glimpse of what lurks just beyond - and it might cause a pregnant pause. But as we saw with the Breivik massacre, they just go on as though it doesn't relate or reflect badly on them at all.

11 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:14:07pm

and the secret, resentful, incoherent, pathetic power fantasies of dumb Americans revealed a bit more every day

on this miracle of technology we call the Internet!

bravo John Jay, you must have really mashed that keyboard

12 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:14:09pm

re: #9 Lidane

Because people who aren't on the board sign the incorporation papers.

Jay's update statement denying any cross-pollination reads like someone has had a session with someone else's lawyers.

13 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:15:40pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

Jay's update statement denying any cross-pollination reads like someone has had a session with someone else's lawyers.

men with thin watches and thinner briefcases called John Jay up and loosened his bladder for him, heh

14 Lidane  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:16:36pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

Jay's update statement denying any cross-pollination reads like someone has had a session with someone else's lawyers.

Pretty much.

Too bad for Pam that no matter what her lawyers got John Jay to say, the fact remains that unless you have your head firmly lodged up your ass, you NEVER have someone sign incorporation papers unless you want them on the board.

15 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:17:06pm

re: #10 lawhawk

...snip And this guy, John Jay, claims he wont write again - but who's to say he wont find himself another alias and write anew.

He has a 'unique' style--neither he nor Marlowe are Shakespeare.

16 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:17:53pm

re: #11 WindUpBird

There was a time before the Internet where folks with these kinds of conspiracies and craziness would be found muttering on the corner of a subway platform or trying to write paper pamphlets to pass out on street corners. Now, anyone and everyone can get an audience - and the more extreme your view - the wider your potential audience because it has the ability to rise above the background noise.

17 Kragar  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:17:57pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

Jay's update statement denying any cross-pollination reads like someone has had a session with someone else's lawyers.

Its getting so you can't even call for the summary execution of your fellow citizens without a trial without the man coming down on you nowadays.

I blame Obama.
/

18 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:18:31pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Times are tough.

19 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:18:53pm

re: #7 jaunte

Crap. Does this mean I have to kill all you guys now? Who's gonna run the blog? Who am I gonna talk to? Who are the stalkers gonna stalk?

Well—*SIGH*—I guess once y'all are gone I'll just have to go find a jihadi site where I'll fit in better. Anyone have any recommendations before I start, y'know...?

//

20 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:19:39pm

re: #16 lawhawk

There was a time before the Internet where folks with these kinds of conspiracies and craziness would be found muttering on the corner of a subway platform or trying to write paper pamphlets to pass out on street corners. Now, anyone and everyone can get an audience - and the more extreme your view - the wider your potential audience because it has the ability to rise above the background noise.

they had zines and radio shows and HAM sets and conventions!

But the internet does away with the middlemen, yes :D

21 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:19:52pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

Crap. Does this mean I have to kill all you guys now? Who's gonna run the blog? Who am I gonna talk to? Who are the stalkers gonna stalk?

Well—*SIGH*—I guess once y'all are gone I'll just have to go find a jihadi site where I'll fit in better. Anyone have any recommendations before I start, y'know...?

//

(cowers)

22 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:20:02pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

I'm told there's something called taquito, or something, that clouds men's minds.

23 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:21:55pm

re: #20 WindUpBird

they had zines and radio shows and HAM sets and conventions!

But the internet does away with the middlemen, yes :D

14.62 percent of all Xerox materials were dedicated to scurrilous racist pornographic office pass-arounds. (That's all true, except the number.)

24 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:25:40pm

G'night folks.

Will check back in tomorrow - presuming CL hasn't offed you all by then.

25 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:26:46pm

re: #24 wozzablog

LOL, g'nite {wozza}

26 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:27:50pm

{CL}

hands where i can see them at all times young lady............

27 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:28:13pm

re: #24 wozzablog

And what am I, roast beef? :P

28 prairiefire  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:32:04pm

re: #15 Decatur Deb

He has a 'unique' style--neither he nor Marlowe are Shakespeare.

No!!! Marlowe is not Shakespeare!

29 steve_davis  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:32:48pm

hmmm....I peeked. What is the sound of no crickets cricketing?

30 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:32:50pm

re: #24 wozzablog

G'night folks.

Will check back in tomorrow - presuming CL hasn't offed you all by then.

The Creeping Shariah Terms & Services contract I clicked says I have to kill at least half of you.

Man, I should have read the fine print. It's awfully hard to rent a scimitar at this time of night.

31 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:34:19pm

re: #30 The Ghost of a Flea
Psst. I know where you can get a good boning knife. //

32 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:34:39pm

re: #27 ProLifeLiberal

And what am I, roast beef? :P

Toast.

33 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:35:27pm

re: #30 The Ghost of a Flea

No problem, you can hand out the orange jumpsuits. //

34 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:36:32pm

re: #28 prairiefire

He's anonymous!

No wait. He's Rupert Everett. No. He's Voldemort's younger brother Joe.

35 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:37:54pm

re: #32 wozzablog

Well, if I'm toast, do I have Strawberry Jam?

36 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:38:50pm

re: #35 ProLifeLiberal
Orange Marmalade.

37 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:39:48pm

re: #31 PhillyPretzel

Since I don't have any sweets, we're going to spare you so you can pass out celebratory pretzels when we're done. It'll be a new tradition—before you know it, all the jihadis will be doing it.

38 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:39:52pm

re: #35 ProLifeLiberal

Well, if I'm toast, do I have Strawberry Jam?

Raspberry Jam, and only when the Jihadi Breakfast Bar of Many Raspberry Preserve Delights opens between 04:00 and 04:05.

39 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:40:59pm

re: #38 wozzablog

Who do you think you are? Lone Star? /Dark Helmet

40 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:41:13pm

re: #37 CuriousLurker
I will make sure I have plenty of mustard for the pretzels. :)

41 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:42:23pm

re: #39 lawhawk

Who do you think you are? Lone Star? /Dark Helmet

Yes, I dare give you the Raspberry.

42 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:42:37pm

re: #33 CuriousLurker

I need some practical pointers about doing that crazed LALALALA scream, though. I sound more Gilbert and Sullivan than bloodthirsty jihadi.

43 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:43:42pm

re: #42 The Ghost of a Flea

I need some practical pointers about doing that crazed LALALALA scream, though. I sound more Gilbert and Sullivan than bloodthirsty jihadi.

We can work that playbill into the next issue of the magazine.

Gilbert & Sullivan - the Pirates of Somalia......

44 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:43:47pm

re: #37 CuriousLurker

Since I don't have any sweets, we're going to spare you so you can pass out celebratory pretzels when we're done. It'll be a new tradition—before you know it, all the jihadis will be doing it.

That works. Pretzels=pretioli=little rewards.

45 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:44:34pm

re: #42 The Ghost of a Flea

I think I have been oblivious to the point of idiocy, but are you also Muslim?

46 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:45:27pm

re: #39 lawhawk

But were you my father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate?

And if so......what does that make us?

47 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:45:30pm

re: #44 Decatur Deb

Well, I'll be darned. That worked out perfectly! ;)

48 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:47:17pm

re: #44 Decatur Deb

Taht works. Pretzels=pretioli=little rewards.

Pretzel logic on LGF.

I thought we were against that sort of thing.

Image: down-with-this-sort-of-thing.jpg

49 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:47:22pm

Pam's scoring a perfect 5 stars in her book reviews so far. I haven't been able to pick up a 45¢ used copy yet.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

50 albusteve  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:47:48pm

now this is a REALLY cool idea....
I want
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

51 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:49:49pm

re: #48 wozzablog

Pretzel logic on LGF.

I thought we were against that sort of thing.

Image: down-with-this-sort-of-thing.jpg

No offence meant Philly........

52 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:50:58pm

re: #51 wozzablog
None taken. Now some of the other things. . . /

53 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:52:23pm

re: #52 PhillyPretzel

None taken. Now some of the other things. . . /

Yeah, about what my dog did on your drive way................. he's still learning.

54 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:52:59pm

re: #53 wozzablog

and if you hadn't seen that yet.......never mind i think it was the guy from across the street.

55 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:53:10pm

re: #53 wozzablog

...And his spelling is bad, too.

56 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:53:59pm

re: #55 jaunte

...And his spelling is bad, too.

He spells terrible, doesn't bother him though, he has no nose.

57 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:54:00pm

down-with-this-sort-of-thing.jpg

whatever it is, i'm against it

58 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:54:15pm

re: #53 wozzablog
Of course. ::: calling contractor to get fence installed :::

59 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:55:47pm

re: #57 engineer dog

down-with-this-sort-of-thing.jpg

whatever it is, i'm against it

Careful now...........

60 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:57:21pm

I would love to stay but I got to go to work tomorrow. Good Night to my fellow Lizards. And Charles it is good to see the Amazon link back.

61 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:58:32pm

WTH is up with embedding being disabled on all these youtube videos?

62 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:58:43pm

re: #60 PhillyPretzel

G'night bud.

63 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:59:43pm

re: #61 Jimmi the Grey

ugh.

it's worth the schlep though.

64 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:00:21pm

re: #43 wozzablog

We can work that playbill into the next issue of the magazine.

Gilbert & Sullivan - the Pirates of Somalia...

I am the very model of a modern Jihad General,
I've infiltrated offices economic and political,
I know 'aql and ijma, and quote the fiqhs historical,
From taqiyya to halal in order categorical.
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters hypocritical,
I understand deceptions, both the venal and unethical,
About Protocols of Zion I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the conspiracies of the Jews....

65 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:01:04pm

re: #61 Jimmi the Grey

WTH is up with embedding being disabled on all these youtube videos?

It's the Man..Dude..

66 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:01:16pm

re: #64 The Ghost of a Flea

ROFLMAO

67 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:02:15pm

re: #49 jaunte

Pam's scoring a perfect 5 stars in her book reviews so far. I haven't been able to pick up a 45¢ used copy yet.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

All 3 reviews, huh? I like the guy in Dallas who says he's been "a potential target to the Dallas area would-be jihadist". He probably got in an argument with some Muslim guy and now he's convinced that the guy is just waiting for orders from Pakistan so he can hunt him down and kill him. *eyeroll*

You know what the strange thing is? As bloodthirsty & unpredictable as we're supposed to be, not a single one of my neighbors seems the least bit intimidated by me. Even the UPS guy isn't scared—he acts all cheerful & friendly when he brings my packages. How weird is that? I guess I need to try harder.

68 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:02:21pm

re: #64 The Ghost of a Flea

I am the very model of a modern Jihad General,
I've infiltrated offices economic and political,
I know 'aql and ijma, and quote the fiqhs historical,
From taqiyya to halal in order categorical.
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters hypocritical,
I understand deceptions, both the venal and unethical,
About Protocols of Zion I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the conspiracies of the Jews...

Quite good, that.

69 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:02:23pm

re: #64 The Ghost of a Flea

Brilliant.

However, you should take out the 'the' before conspiracies for better scansion.

But brilliant.

70 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:02:39pm

Having been cheered substantially - i bid thee all goodnight and a pleasant 'morrow.

71 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:04:27pm

Early out too--long day tomorrow convicting Alabamans.

72 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:05:08pm

re: #67 CuriousLurker

And then you have me. You're at bigger risk of a glomp than any physical meanness.

73 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:06:36pm

re: #67 CuriousLurker

There seems to be a lot of talk in the reviews about Muslims trying to get special privileges, but they're sparing with specific examples.

74 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:06:41pm

re: #72 ProLifeLiberal

Oh, yeah—the secret jihadi glomp. LOL

75 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:06:56pm

re: #69 Obdicut

Brilliant.

However, you should take out the 'the' before conspiracies for better scansion.

But brilliant.

...crap; missed the edit window.

76 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:09:36pm

re: #63 wozzablog

yeah, good humor. Got a good laugh 2nd time through once I reacquainted myself with the accent.

Just don't understand the disabling of embedding. I could grok it if youtube had adds on the page and not in the videos themselves, but...

77 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:10:02pm

re: #73 jaunte

There seems to be a lot of talk in the reviews about Muslims trying to get special privileges, but they're sparing with specific examples.

Yeah, I was wondering about those. It seems I've been out of the loop. If you figure out what they are let me know so I can go get mine.

78 Atlas Fails  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:13:09pm

Evening lizards, good to be back. I may be behind, but did anyone read OWS's proposed list of demands? Seems pretty out there to me. Damn, I was just starting to warm up to them after some unions got involved and Bill O'Reilly called them a bunch of slackers who needed to "take a shower." I can't support any movement that advocates open borders and across the board debt forgiveness (although I do agree with their stances on the Equal Rights Amendment and "free" trade), but I guess if they motivate young, disenfranchised liberals to get out and vote if they want to avoid 2010 redux, they'll have accomplished something good.

79 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:14:34pm

re: #78 Atlas Fails

Their list of demands is a shopping list of issues, done I suppose in hope of seeing which group they can attract. Kind of like a marketing gimmick.

80 Digital Display  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:15:06pm

re: #75 The Ghost of a Flea

...crap; missed the edit window.

Just my humble opinion but I think the edit should be alive for 15 minutes..instead of 2..
My Argument is thus..
1. Only the original author has rights to an edit
2. Lizards multi task and often don't catch typos.. ( Stop looking at me!)
3. Preview shows you what will be the future.. Edit lets you change the past..
4. Who doesn't want the power the change the past?
I humbly ask for a 15 minute window

81 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:16:35pm

re: #78 Atlas Fails

Evening lizards, good to be back. I may be behind, but did anyone read OWS's proposed list of demands?

So they want heavy regulation for goods crossing borders but no regulation on people crossing borders? Uh, good luck with that.

82 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:16:39pm

re: #64 The Ghost of a Flea

I am the very model of a modern Jihad General,
I've infiltrated offices economic and political,
I know 'aql and ijma, and quote the fiqhs historical,
From taqiyya to halal in order categorical.
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters hypocritical,
I understand deceptions, both the venal and unethical,
About Protocols of Zion I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the conspiracies of the Jews...

Well done!

83 Atlas Fails  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:16:52pm

re: #79 freetoken

Their list of demands is a shopping list of issues, done I suppose in hope of seeing which group they can attract. Kind of like a marketing gimmick.

Probably true, but if those people they attract of the ANSWER/Code Pink stripe, I want no part of this movement. If they lead to more progressives being elected around the country though, I'll tip my hat to them for that.

84 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:16:54pm

Occupy Wall Street Protestor on Federal Reserve

/Not found on a wingut site, Top rated on lefty site.
//Goodluck with that

85 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:17:21pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

Just my humble opinion but I think the edit should be alive for 15 minutes..instead of 2..
My Argument is thus..
1. Only the original author has rights to an edit
2. Lizards multi task and often don't catch typos.. ( Stop looking at me!)
3. Preview shows you what will be the future.. Edit lets you change the past..
4. Who doesn't want the power the change the past?
I humbly ask for a 15 minute window

In my culture, failure to match scansion merits seppuku.

Man, the only thing harder than finding a scimitar rental place at this time of night is finding a kaishaku. Yellow Pages? Not helping.

86 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:18:19pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

Crap. Does this mean I have to kill all you guys now? Who's gonna run the blog? Who am I gonna talk to? Who are the stalkers gonna stalk?

Well—*SIGH*—I guess once y'all are gone I'll just have to go find a jihadi site where I'll fit in better. Anyone have any recommendations before I start, y'know...?

//

Does this mean you're gonna hit us with a Nude Bomb?

;-p

87 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:18:42pm

Well, I have to get back to looking for the remote* that I lost so I can finish installing the new digital adapters Comcast is making everyone use now. Hope you all have a pleasant night. Oh, and don't forget to make your wills and have them signed & notarized. Just in case...

* The remote control for the TV, not a detonator. Sheesh! //

88 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:20:01pm

re: #46 wozzablog

But were you my father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate?

And if so...what does that make us?

Absolutely nothing...

89 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:20:15pm

re: #24 wozzablog

G'night folks.

Will check back in tomorrow - presuming CL hasn't offed you all by then.

CL is a Zionist tool.

90 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:21:11pm

Jamie Talks Dirty

91 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:21:13pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

I don't think he's an economist.

92 Atlas Fails  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:22:31pm

'Night all.

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:27:49pm

Yes, yes, let's all make fun of Mr. Jay. Do you realize that right at the top of this page, there is an ad running for ISLAMIC HOME FINANCING?

RUN!!!!!!!

///

94 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:28:50pm

re: #78 Atlas Fails

I have issues with 3, 7, 9, 11, and 12.

3: Massively (literally) Socialistic/Communist. I can think of no government (extant) that does this.

7: Rivers are important as a source of Power and doing willy-nilly demolition is not intelligent. However, there are some dams that might deserve destruction. In addition, I see no good Renewable Alternative to Nuclear in replacing Carbon.

9: Open Borders won't work right now. Immigration should be regulated, although in the case of the US we need massive reform and Liberalization. I would advocate a Schengen Agreement-type thing with Canada and some nations in the Caribbean.

11: Big No! Some debt might deserve leniency (Third World National Debt, Student Debt, and maybe Underwater Mortgages) but getting rid of all debt is unfeasible.

12: Seems out there. Needs regulation sure, but that is an overstep.

95 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:29:07pm

re: #80 HoosierHoops

Hmmm...

Let's see if we can't make the edit time window dependent upon a few factors:

Let Edit time window length (in minutes) be represented by ℓ.
Let the user account ding totals be ⅆ

Then:
ℓ = 10 * e-10,000/ⅆ

That way long time lizards who have posted quite a bit get longer time than the run-in trolls and new users.

96 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:30:22pm

Preview shows you what will be the future.. Edit lets you change the past

can i reboot 2002?

97 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:30:30pm

re: #93 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, yes, let's all make fun of Mr. Jay. Do you realize that right at the top of this page, there is an ad running for ISLAMIC HOME FINANCING?

RUN!!!

///

I'm getting "Hot and Horny Muslimas Seek Paradise!" Maybe I have a tracking cookie or something.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:31:30pm

re: #19 CuriousLurker

Crap. Does this mean I have to kill all you guys now? Who's gonna run the blog? Who am I gonna talk to? Who are the stalkers gonna stalk?

Well—*SIGH*—I guess once y'all are gone I'll just have to go find a jihadi site where I'll fit in better. Anyone have any recommendations before I start, y'know...?

//

Well, I figured you'd just keep this one...maybe build a triumphal minaret on it.

//

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:33:50pm

re: #22 jaunte

I'm told there's something called taquito, or something, that clouds men's minds.

That must be origin of 'taquitos'. You see, the Moors in Christian Spain would pretend to make friends with their Christian neighbors, by offering them meat fillings wrapped up in tortillas. Having gained their trust, they would slaughter them all. It's called a taquito because it's the culinary expression of taqiyya!!

OMG!!!

///I have a horrible sense of having just started a legend on its way in murky waters.

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:35:32pm

re: #42 The Ghost of a Flea

I need some practical pointers about doing that crazed LALALALA scream, though. I sound more Gilbert and Sullivan than bloodthirsty jihadi.

Go to more Sephardi weddings. You'll pick it up. Also, the food is good.

101 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:35:47pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

"Taquito, the open-ended cornmeal-wrapped ground meat of deception."

102 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:35:55pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

Huh. Paulbot preachin it on Lefty sites now.

103 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:37:29pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

That must be origin of 'taquitos'. You see, the Moors in Christian Spain would pretend to make friends with their Christian neighbors, by offering them meat fillings wrapped up in tortillas. Having gained their trust, they would slaughter them all. It's called a taquito because it's the culinary expression of taqiyya!!

OMG!!!

///I have a horrible sense of having just started a legend on its way in murky waters.

The taquito conceals its contents. Its intentions are...sinister.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:37:37pm

re: #64 The Ghost of a Flea

I am the very model of a modern Jihad General,
I've infiltrated offices economic and political,
I know 'aql and ijma, and quote the fiqhs historical,
From taqiyya to halal in order categorical.
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters hypocritical,
I understand deceptions, both the venal and unethical,
About Protocols of Zion I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the conspiracies of the Jews...

{joins in, off key} "With many cheerful facts about conspiracies of Jews..."

105 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:38:35pm

re: #102 Jimmi the Grey

Huh. Paulbot preachin it on Lefty sites now.

It's not that uncommon. Paulians were pretty popular on lefty sites during the Bush years.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:40:02pm

re: #78 Atlas Fails

Evening lizards, good to be back. I may be behind, but did anyone read OWS's proposed list of demands? Seems pretty out there to me. Damn, I was just starting to warm up to them after some unions got involved and Bill O'Reilly called them a bunch of slackers who needed to "take a shower." I can't support any movement that advocates open borders and across the board debt forgiveness (although I do agree with their stances on the Equal Rights Amendment and "free" trade), but I guess if they motivate young, disenfranchised liberals to get out and vote if they want to avoid 2010 redux, they'll have accomplished something good.

Well, no one can accuse them of starting too small.

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:40:37pm

re: #89 Alouette

CL is a Zionist tool.

And Alouette means that in the nicest possible way.

108 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:40:43pm

re: #89 Alouette

CL is a Zionist tool.

*glares at Alouette* You are SO ruining my jihadi street creds.

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I figured you'd just keep this one...maybe build a triumphal minaret on it.

//

OMG, that's it! Why didn't I think of that??

LOL, I couldn't resist coming back for those two.

Okay, now I'm really leaving. Closing the spy. Logging out. Ignoring all further amusing & clever comments.

~~~GONE~~~

109 Cheechako  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:41:34pm

Today was election day in my hometown. I have no idea of why we have a separate, local election in October. Why not have the local elections in November in conjunction with the State and National elections? Ought to be able to save a few thousand dollars in election costs. It will be interesting to see how high the voter turn-out is.

Typical school board and Borough Assembly candidates on the ballot. Two positions had only one candidate each, the incumbents. Not going to be much change here.

The ballot measures were the interesting issues. First, a proposal to continue a “temporary” 3% sales tax. This temporary tax as been temporary for over 10 years. Naturally if the tax is voted down the City will have to increase property taxes to make up the difference. Pay me now or pay me later!

A couple of school bond issues. One to resurface the high school football field with new astro-turf. The current field is also astro-turf but only lasted 10 years. Having some vandals burn a hole in the turf didn’t help the longevity. Going to cost $1.2 million to replace. Since the State picks up 70% of school construction costs, it’s “only” going to cost the local taxpayers $360,000.

One very interesting school improvement on the ballot. A bond issue to replace the heating system at an elementary school to a ground source heating system. Estimated cost $1.4 million (also reimbursed 70% by the state). I like this idea as it has the potential to have significant savings in the future. Currently the school is heated with diesel and the current cost is over $3.50/gal.

This continues an on-going program to use ground based heating systems in the community. Currently the new swimming pool complex and the airport terminal building have had these systems installed. So far these projects are too new to have estimates of what the actual cost savings have been.

One last ballot issue was added by a citizen’s petition. A proposal to have businesses grossing over $15 million annually collect a 15 cent tax for every plastic bag a customer is given. At this gross amount, only 4 businesses in the entire community will be required to collect the tax.

110 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:41:56pm

re: #78 Atlas Fails

I was hoping the tax on stock market trades would be in there. Imagine if the Hedge funds had to pay a .5% tax on the millions of trades their uberfast computers make every day.

What national debt?

111 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:43:52pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

They are going beyond Rationality here. They need to look at what has worked.

We do need Educational Subsidies at the least for college.

In general, I try to use Rationality, Science, and Logic in most things. Serves me well 99% of the time.

112 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:44:27pm

re: #110 Jimmi the Grey

That's a damn fine idea.

113 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:45:16pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

Raising trade tariffs on imports and then expecting the rest of the world to participate in open borders seems a little contradictory.

114 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:46:40pm

re: #112 ProLifeLiberal

Not mine...wish I could remember where I read it. Will give credit to who ever I read it from soon as I come across it again.

115 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:48:02pm

The lefty apologists were saying shit like "Wake me when the elected Dems embrace the radicals like the Republicans did with the Tea Party". Well, here you go....
CPC Co-Chairs Applaud Occupy Wall Street Movement

Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) Co-Chairs Reps. Raúl M. Grijalva and Keith Ellison today released the following statement in solidarity with the demonstrators on Wall Street and around the country:

116 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:51:07pm

re: #110 Jimmi the Grey

One of the indications of how manipulated the Tea Partying atavists are is observing how they so willingly buy into the idea of low or zero taxes on capital gains but then turn around and accept people like Cain who wants to put national sales taxes into effect.

In their world, somehow a commodities trader in Chicago can flip some soybean contracts in a morning and make $100,000 (say, by catching news on some Brazilian climate news a few hours ahead of the masses) and count that as "capital gains" and thus in the Kochian worldview ought not to pay taxes on that $100,000. However, some local retailer, seeing some item is "hot" in his local market can on morning raise a $10 item to $11, and if Cain's vision comes to pass then the buyer has to pay 99 cents federal sales tax instead of 90 cents.

The regressive nature of what we call today the "right wing" in American politics, and that means most of the GOP, really is awful. It's just a ploy by powerful and rich players to avoid owning up to their role in society.

117 Lidane  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:51:56pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

It's not that uncommon. Paulians were pretty popular on lefty sites during the Bush years.

That's because the hippies and moonbats listened to Luap Nor talk about legalizing weed and being anti-war and they ignored everything else he was saying.

Anyone on the left who supports Luap Nor is a useful idiot and a dupe.

118 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:52:33pm

re: #117 Lidane

FREE THE WEED!!

119 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:53:14pm

re: #111 ProLifeLiberal

I should mention that one thing I found yesterday fit in that one percent.

Cracked is a humor site, but they occasionally are quite intelligent. They had this video and and a write up on an article on car chases.

[Link: www.myspace.com...]

The writer had this on write-up

Regardless of the narrator's overwrought delivery, we're watching a pretty standard car chase. The cops pursue the driver for several minutes, occasionally losing him for minute, but then always catching up eventually. Then suddenly, he weaves wide right, and takes a sharp left...into history.

Because when the cops go to follow his lead, they find only an unbroken fence blocking their way, while far beyond it, the Ghost Car disappears into the distance. Theories vary as to what actually happened here, and each has its problems: Did the car plow through the fence with enough speed to yank the link free from the posts, slipping under it like a doggy door, thus leaving it free to return and only appearing unbroken? If that's the case, the posts would have to have been in front of the link -- on the side nearest the officer's car -- otherwise they couldn't swing free, and the posts themselves would've broken before letting a car through. It also looks like there's a bump and a sharp drop just before the fence. Could the car have gone sailing over the fence, hitting a bump or ad-hoc ramp that the cop just missed? Physics doesn't work that way - there's no way he was going fast enough to clear a fence that height at that distance.

There's no official answer here -- even Snopes isn't getting involved -- and the Garden City PD has stayed coyly silent, presumably feeling like the prettiest belle at the ball from all the attention the internet is giving them. So you're just going to have to wonder: Was it ghosts? Was it a lucky drunk? What actually happened?

120 Lidane  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:53:33pm

OT, but Death Cab for Cutie are awesome. I've got their new album Codes and Keys streaming on Spotify and I'm loving it.

121 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:54:51pm

CPC Co-Chairs Applaud Occupy Wall Street Movement
10/4/11

Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) Co-Chairs Reps. Raúl M. Grijalva and Keith Ellison today released the following statement in solidarity with the demonstrators on Wall Street and around the country:

“We have been inspired by the growing grassroots movements on Wall Street and across the country. We share the anger and frustration of so many Americans who have seen the enormous toll that an unchecked Wall Street has taken on the overwhelming majority of Americans while benefitting the super wealthy. We join the calls for corporate accountability and expanded middle-class opportunity.

“Throughout the summer, CPC Members listened to Americans nationwide describe how it feels to be on the wrong side of the wall between the rich and the rest of us. During the Speakout for Good Jobs Now! tour in New York City, Detroit, Milwaukee, Oakland, Minneapolis, Miami and Seattle, we heard compelling stories of Americans struggling to live the American dream while CEO’s and the super rich were given more taxpayer handouts.

“We stand with the American people as they demand corporate accountability and we support their use of peaceful means to improve America.”

122 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 7:59:18pm

Speaking of the irony of embedded online ads... I just visited PZed's column over on the FreeThoughts site and the advert offered up to me: "Become an Ordained Pastor, Answer God's call to service..."

123 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:01:09pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

The lefty apologists were saying shit like "Wake me when the elected Dems embrace the radicals like the Republicans did with the Tea Party". Well, here you go...
CPC Co-Chairs Applaud Occupy Wall Street Movement

Meh. The Progressives may come out in support, but I doubt the rest of the Democratic party will follow suit. No big deal, IMO.

124 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:03:57pm

Occupy Wall Street
"Go Back to Israel, Jew"

125 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:05:31pm

re: #123 makeitstop

Meh. The Progressives may come out in support, but I doubt the rest of the Democratic party will follow suit. No big deal, IMO.

Actually, the CPC support is very cagey: rather than a blank-check endorsement they've picked their phrases carefully, basically saying "Here's what we derive from the OWS in spite of its incohesion and moonbat-carnival elements. We totally support those things we just projected onto OWS."

126 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:06:48pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

Occupy Wall Street
"Go Back to Israel, Jew"

[Video]

"you've got the money, Jewish man!"

127 BishopX  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:07:39pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I'm getting a blank video...

128 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:09:02pm

"from this day forth, i will write no more forever …."

So apparently, John Jay's indian name is "Troll-who-spews-murderous-hate".

129 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:11:24pm

re: #127 BishopX

I'm getting a blank video...

Hmmm, me too. The video won't embed for some reason.
Try going via google search
[Link: www.google.com...]

130 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:13:20pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

He's quite the drama queen.

131 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:16:26pm

So John Jay flounced on his own website?

What a courageous man! Winning!

132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:17:17pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

/Not found on a wingut site, Top rated on lefty site.

Which one?

133 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:18:40pm

re: #125 The Ghost of a Flea

Actually, the CPC support is very cagey: rather than a blank-check endorsement they've picked their phrases carefully, basically saying "Here's what we derive from the OWS in spite of its incohesion and moonbat-carnival elements. We totally support those things we just projected onto OWS."

Frankly I'm surprised it took the far left so long to put together their own half-assed version of the TP. Whether it infects mainstream Dem rhetoric and actions is the big question over the next few weeks.

134 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:19:04pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

Occupy Wall Street
"Go Back to Israel, Jew"

[Video]

Strange, the kid identifies himself as a Jew as well.

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:19:12pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

[Video]

States rights asshole shows up to recruit gullible leftys.

Again. e_e

136 Kragar  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:20:02pm

re: #131 palomino

So John Jay flounced on his own website?

What a courageous man! Winning!

"Fine, I didn't want to play with you guys anyways. I'm taking my counter-jihad and going home...*sniff*"

137 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:22:27pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

"you've got the money, Jewish man!"

Video not working.

Is this the video of a young dude yelling at a Jewish man--mostly anti-Semitic vileness plus an n-bomb--that were posted and reacted to by Charles Cooke of National Review?

138 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:25:02pm

This one:

Umm...

KT, you might want to look up this dude. There's a reason this video ends with him pimping his Youtube video "Danny Cline is Lotion Man"

139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:26:18pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

It's not that uncommon. Paulians were pretty popular on lefty sites during the Bush years.

They also got majorly smacked down by folx like me on lefty sites, too.

Thing I want to know is, when you say "lefty sites", which ones are you talking about. There are hundreds. Could you be more specific?

140 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:27:10pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

Link doesn't work.

Repost?

141 prairiefire  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:29:43pm

re: #120 Lidane

OT, but Death Cab for Cutie are awesome. I've got their new album Codes and Keys streaming on Spotify and I'm loving it.

They played in KC last night. It was going to be my daughter's first concert, but my husband had to go out of town.

142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:29:51pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

The lefty apologists were saying shit like "Wake me when the elected Dems embrace the radicals like the Republicans did with the Tea Party".

Which ones?

When?

143 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:31:14pm

re: #139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They also got majorly smacked down by folx like me on lefty sites, too.

Thing I want to know is, when you say "lefty sites", which ones are you talking about. There are hundreds. Could you be more specific?

I still read comments from Paulians at Huffpo. But it's no longer really a lefty site, since half its traffic comes from its connection to AOL (hardly a bastion of liberalism, or any sort of rational thinking).

Young folks and some of the relatively few liberal libertarians liked him, primarily for two things. He opposed the wars, and he's cool with legalizing pot.

144 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:34:56pm

Suck it up, moonbats. It's not like I didn;t tell you that the protests were inititiated by the antisemites at adbusters, Anon, ANSWER, and the Marxists from World Workers Party, Socialist Alternative, Party for Socialism and Revolution, etc. You were warned and this is what you decided to support. Fuck you, Fuck your protests, and fuck your ignorant rabid instincts that led you to support this bullshit beyond all reason and common sense.

145 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:36:33pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Maybe a little premature.

146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:36:48pm

re: #143 palomino

I still read comments from Paulians at Huffpo. But it's no longer really a lefty site, since half its traffic comes from its connection to AOL (hardly a bastion of liberalism, or any sort of rational thinking).

Young folks and some of the relatively few liberal libertarians liked him, primarily for two things. He opposed the wars, and he's cool with legalizing pot.

Ron Paul and his son Kland are conservative Republicans. Their minions will try and recruit anybody, just as the antiwar.com paleocons will. That's because they are desperate to make themselves look like more of a real political movement than they really are.

As for HP, Ms. Huffington has always been an opportunist. The site was started with stupid Breitbart, for gd's sake. A lot of these people are just flat-out carnival barkers with a schtick, some with more demagogic qualities than others.

Showbiz.

147 bratwurst  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:36:54pm

re: #145 Amory Blaine

Maybe a little premature.

And a little overblown.

148 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:36:58pm

I keep reading the comments at the OWS site listing the demands, and much like reading the comments to tea party sites I keep wondering why people must disparage with epitaphs instead of critiquing with flaws in ideas?

I'd be more likely to listen to someone who tries to explain why I'm wrong then someone who calls me dumber than a sack of wet mice.

Maybe that's how I ended up here...

149 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:38:35pm

Kind of a slow news day... and my radar didn't pick up any emergent memes... but perhaps I've not had enough chocolate yet.

I do notice that the Euro zone negotiators said today they haven't concluded the aid package for Greece, and the Greek finance minister says the country has enough money until middle of November - after that it won't have the money to pay back bonds that are coming due. Probably an issue that will someday mean something to American life, but so far it's still "over there."

150 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:38:39pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I'd like to point out that decaf in this day and age is just a tasty as regular coffee.

151 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:39:47pm

Same guy, Danny Cline, uploaded September 4th by amazingstrangersnyc

Aftermath interview between Cline and cameraman, Youtube handle amazingstrangersnyc, uploaded Oct 3

152 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:40:07pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Suck it up, moonbats. It's not like I didn;t tell you that the protests were inititiated by the antisemites at adbusters, Anon, ANSWER, and the Marxists from World Workers Party, Socialist Alternative, Party for Socialism and Revolution, etc. You were warned and this is what you decided to support. Fuck you, Fuck your protests, and fuck your ignorant rabid instincts that led you to support this bullshit beyond all reason and common sense.

What brought on this random tantrum?

You haven't really said much of anything except for linking specious links you come across to some vague "lefty sites".

Please be more specific in the future. Or, if you don't have any specifics, just say so, and I'll stop asking for them.

153 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:40:39pm

re: #146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ron Paul and his son Kland are conservative Republicans. Their minions will try and recruit anybody, just as the antiwar.com paleocons will. That's because they are desperate to make themselves look like more of a real political movement than they really are.

As for HP, Ms. Huffington has always been an opportunist. The site was started with stupid Breitbart, for gd's sake. A lot of these people are just flat-out carnival barkers with a schtick, some with more demagogic qualities than others.

Showbiz.

Remember the old Ms. Huffington was a far right conservative who spent most of her time telling us how evil the Clintons were? Once her puppet husband lost his/her Senate race, he divorced her and came out of the closet (sort of, he claims to be "homosexual but not gay"); then she reinvented herself very cleverly.

154 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:40:42pm
JeffSharlet JeffSharlet
I had no trouble finding a few kooks at #occupywallstreet. But I had an even easier time finding smart, articulate people of many views.
155 prairiefire  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:40:57pm

re: #149 freetoken

I'm sure there is a platter of good chocolates in the board rooms of DC think tanks.

156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:42:50pm

re: #153 palomino

Remember the old Ms. Huffington was a far right conservative who spent most of her time telling us how evil the Clintons were? Once her puppet husband lost his/her Senate race, he divorced her and came out of the closet (sort of, he claims to be "homosexual but not gay"); then she reinvented herself very cleverly.

Yes, I do. I spent some time in Santa Barbara in the early 90s so I remember the Huffingtons quite well, as he was my rep.

I actually find her interesting as a media figure. But I trust her about as far as I can throw her, given what I've seen of her for 20 years.

157 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:43:11pm

re: #155 prairiefire

I'm sure there is a platter of good chocolates in the board rooms of DC think tanks.

They're hoarding them now because they know what's coming... o_O

158 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:43:50pm

re: #153 palomino

he divorced her and came out of the closet (sort of, he claims to be "homosexual but not gay");

That might have been confusing, but she probably knew the score.

159 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:44:02pm

re: #155 prairiefire

Oh, when I lived in DC I had not problem finding good food, including sweets. Added several pounds in the course of a few months. If you notice the pictures of lobbyists who make DC area their home you'll find most of them have well rounded jowls.

160 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:44:52pm

re: #146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Upding for "his son Kland"

161 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:45:32pm

Stephen Colbert

If we renamed America "New Jersey" Chris Christie would HAVE to govern us.

162 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:45:57pm

re: #138 The Ghost of a Flea

Do you have a url for that? I can't seem to get these Livelink things from here.

163 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:46:12pm

re: #156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes, I do. I spent some time in Santa Barbara in the early 90s so I remember the Huffingtons quite well, as he was my rep.

I actually find her interesting as a media figure. But I trust her about as far as I can throw her, given what I've seen of her for 20 years.

She's definitely a cagey media figure, and seems to have learned a lot in this arena since the debacle of her husband's campaign and the end of their marriage. But I agree about her sudden political transformation. Hard to believe it's completely legit, for what it's worth.

164 prairiefire  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:46:12pm

re: #157 publicityStunted

They're hoarding them now because they know what's coming... o_O

Bummer!

165 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:49:35pm

Evening all!

Has it been eventful?

166 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:52:10pm

re: #165 ggt

Has it been eventful?

Well, three cosmologists got the Nobel in Physics today for their discovery of the accelerating expansion of the universe.

167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:52:16pm

re: #163 palomino

She's definitely a cagey media figure, and seems to have learned a lot in this arena since the debacle of her husband's campaign and the end of their marriage. But I agree about her sudden political transformation. Hard to believe it's completely legit, for what it's worth.

I think it's legit, in that she saw where the money was, built up a community based on free labor, then sold it for a fine sum.

I caught a bunch of heat when that happened when I was saying hey, do work for free out of the goodness of your heart...for a conservative...do not ever be surprised when they take the credit for your work and sell you down the river.

They have a really nasty history of that sort of thing.

168 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:54:40pm

re: #165 ggt

KT decided to go on a bashing spree against "leftists" on here.

I think I'm the most far-left person on here. And I don't touch Socialism. Chavez is an example why.

169 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:54:57pm

re: #165 ggt

Evening all!

Has it been eventful?

KT just had somewhat of a hissyfit because the moonbats aren't buying into his drum-banging. Other than that, can't think of anything big.

170 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:55:31pm

re: #168 ProLifeLiberal

KT decided to go on a bashing spree against "leftists."

It's been a while since they've had a good thrashing. All the attention has been on the right. I myself am an equal opportunity thrasher.

171 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:56:28pm

re: #170 ggt

Thing is, he went like a loose cannon. And attacked those of us here as well.

172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:56:38pm

re: #170 ggt

Yeah except that was a pretty weak thrashing.

More of a poutrage than anything.

173 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:58:48pm

It must be those evil mind rays from China or something as it seem everyone in my life, including me, has been in a funk today. Miscommunication seems to be the norm, bent feelings result.

This should help.

174 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:59:23pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

LOL, here's your anti semite Danny Cline, AKA Lotion Man. Do you really think this schizophrenic crackhead represents the average OWS protestor? NSFW:

175 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:00:03pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

Who's this guy?

176 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:01:11pm

re: #175 ProLifeLiberal

Whose this guy?

The schmuck referred to in Killgore's #124

177 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:01:57pm

re: #176 goddamnedfrank

I get that. It's more a question of his reputation, and following kinda.

178 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:04:32pm

re: #168 ProLifeLiberal

KT decided to go on a bashing spree against "leftists" on here.

I think I'm the most far-left person on here. And I don't touch Socialism. Chavez is an example why.

The whole OWS movement is so nascent that I don't think liberals should be denounced for not rejecting it immediately. Eventually, as John Lennon said, "If they go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, They ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow."

Fact is, there should be more of a critique of Wall St. as part of the national discourse. Maybe OWS isn't the answer, maybe it's too radical and Dem pols would be smart to steer clear of it. But the substance of the critique itself isn't irredeemably undermined at this point. Maybe there are enough sane non-OWS folks to clearly articulate a message and not pollute the movement.

179 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:05:36pm

re: #162 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you have a url for that? I can't seem to get these Livelink things from here.

Same thing from Youtube.

I'd really appreciate a second opinion on the other videos I linked to. It the Youtube account of Normal Bob Smith (normalbobsmith.com), who has a website feature called Amazing Strangers (vids archived at Youtube under the name amazingstrangersnyc. He films events and weird people in New York public spaces.

Danny Cline--the guy seen yelling obscenities in the video--first turns up on September 3rd in a video called "Lotion Man" in which he argues with and threatens one of the homeless men (another fixture in Normal's videos), applies sunscreen, attempts to drive the spike of an earring through his tongue, and then busks the cameraman for money. He is then filmed sleeping in Union Square. When he awakes he's disoriented and doesn't recognize the cameraman, then asks him for a lighter, repeatedly.

Short version...I not sure he's a "protester."

180 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:05:53pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

rotfl

181 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:08:56pm

re: #179 The Ghost of a Flea

Correction: September 4th

182 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:09:44pm

re: #179 The Ghost of a Flea

He sounds like someone in need of some very strong medicine.

183 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:09:51pm

So, everyone is still debating the merits of the Wall Street Protest, is that it?

184 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:10:56pm

re: #177 ProLifeLiberal

I get that. It's more a question of his reputation, and following kinda.

Watch the video. He's some strange species of high powered street mutant exhibiting extensive brain damage, apparently just got out of jail for theft, redbull fanboy, probable abuser of multiple pharmacologicals. Dude's a massive tweaker, couldn't organize a game of catch without wandering off on a tangent.

185 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:11:09pm

re: #183 ggt

So, everyone is still debating the merits of the Wall Street Protest, is that it?

Yeah, pretty much.

186 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:11:35pm

re: #183 ggt

So, everyone is still debating the merits of the Wall Street Protest, is that it?

Some people are - it has yet to find any resonance in myself.

187 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:13:35pm

re: #179 The Ghost of a Flea

I'd really appreciate a second opinion on the other videos I linked to.

Street theatre, on the same level as Westboro Baptist, to be taken absolutely literally only at one's own risk.

I already know I'll be in the minority on that opinion,* but I've been watching Westboro Baptist and their antics for a couple decades before they got taken to the SCOTUS.

*No prob, I'm used to that, and don't give a damn what others think about it, either.

188 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:13:42pm

re: #183 ggt

So, everyone is still debating the merits of the Wall Street Protest, is that it?

Like the Progressive caucus, I would support better "corporate accountability and expanded middle-class opportunity." So far the Occupy Wall Street activists haven't articulated a clear method to begin achieving either goal.

189 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:14:06pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

I do NOT want to know how you found that!
But, it's funny!

190 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:15:25pm

re: #186 freetoken

Some people are - it has yet to find any resonance in myself.

It's too amorphous at this point for me to pass judgment. In terms of content, their positions deserve to be aired and discussed by everyone. But their form of demonstration and hijinks leave a lot to be desired. It seems to lack some of the dignity of the Wisconsin protests, who probably aren't too far off ideologically from the majority of the OWS protesters.

191 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:16:26pm

re: #186 freetoken

Some people are - it has yet to find any resonance in myself.

I think it's interesting. Or at least the showbiz/buzz aspects of it, interesting.

I'm always interested when political movements get people emotional and acting out.

It's all very interesting.

192 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:20:40pm

AP: Democrat Earl Ray Tomblin Wins WV-GOV Special Election

Democrats have held on in the Republican-trending rural state of West Virginia, with Democratic Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin winning Tuesday’s special election.

With 81% of precincts reporting, Tomblin leads Republican businessman Bill Maloney at 49%-47%, and Tomblin has been projected as the winner by the Associated Press.

193 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:21:05pm

re: #191 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I think it's interesting. Or at least the showbiz/buzz aspects of it, interesting.

I'm always interested when political movements get people emotional and acting out.

As for showbiz... that the audience for DWTS has shrunk by a couple of million people (correlating with the appearance of the Kardashian clan featured prominently on every episode so far - I wonder if the producers realize that(?)) so far has involved more people than the OWS stuff, a "movement" which appears to me to be a half-assed attempt by some whiny college kids realizing they went deeply in debt for nothing to get more freebies.

194 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:23:57pm

re: #190 palomino

It's too amorphous at this point for me to pass judgment. In terms of content, their positions deserve to be aired and discussed by everyone. But their form of demonstration and hijinks leave a lot to be desired. It seems to lack some of the dignity of the Wisconsin protests, who probably aren't too far off ideologically from the majority of the OWS protesters.

Well, I've passed plenty of judgments on it, personally, possibly to the consternation of some of the other liberals at LGF. Thing is, KT's supposed expose's, and tonight's resulting tantrum, aren't out of some altruistic public service on behalf of "the leftys".

That much is obvious as the day is long. But to me, the two are 2 totally different conversations.

195 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:25:57pm

Erick the whiner, son of Erick, shows me why I mostly feel like supporting the OWS people even if they haven't figured it all out yet:
[Link: yfrog.com...]

196 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:26:49pm

re: #187 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #184 goddamnedfrank

re: #182 ProLifeLiberal

Realize that this is the guy that a National Review commentator is using--that guy, who appears to be a busker who works in/around Union Square and may have some issues--as his example of "The Dark Side of the OWS Protest."

It took me two minutes to find Normal Bob Smith and five to notice that Danny Cline the "Lotion Man" is featured in a video preceding OWS by two weeks...more if it wasn't posted the day it was shot. I bet you could go through and find him in the background of other "local color" pieces by Normal Bob Smith.

You want to speak out again OWS because of the involvement of ANSWER (or any other group) because of their statements, I totally understand that.

This? I don't.

197 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:26:52pm

re: #195 jaunte

Erick the whiner, son of Erick, shows me why I mostly feel like supporting the OWS people even if they haven't figured it all out yet:
[Link: yfrog.com...]

why?

198 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:27:13pm

re: #194 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, I've passed plenty of judgments on it, personally, possibly to the consternation of some of the other liberals at LGF. Thing is, KT's supposed expose's, and tonight's resulting tantrum, aren't out of some altruistic public service on behalf of "the leftys".

That much is obvious as the day is long. But to me, the two are 2 totally different conversations.

I guess I don't get where KT is coming from. I don't think his economic views are in line with current gop orthodoxy. Maybe he thinks the freaks are gonna ruin it for the rest of us on the left, but I can't tell from his posts.

199 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:27:15pm

re: #194 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, I've passed plenty of judgments on it, personally, possibly to the consternation of some of the other liberals at LGF. Thing is, KT's supposed expose's, and tonight's resulting tantrum, aren't out of some altruistic public service on behalf of "the leftys".

I've been watching him raging for a week, wondering 'Why does he care so much?'

He wants the lefty equivalent of the Teahadis to come to pass. He seems really pissed that it hasn't happened yet.

200 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:28:06pm

re: #189 Floral Giraffe

I do NOT want to know how you found that!

Since you don't want to know I'll tell you anyway. It wasn't difficult, just clicked the first hit on Killgore's #129 Google search. It contains other Lotion Man videos.

He's an example of this country's failed approach to mental health treatment.

201 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:29:15pm

re: #196 The Ghost of a Flea

re: #184 goddamnedfrank

re: #182 ProLifeLiberal

Realize that this is the guy that a National Review commentator is using that guy--who basically a busker who works in/around Union Square and may have some issues--as his example of "The Dark Side of the OWS Protest."

It took me two minutes to find Normal Bob Smith and ten to notice that Danny Cline the "Lotion Man" is featured in a video preceding OWS by two weeks...more if it wasn't posted the day it was shot. I bet you could go through and find him in the background of other "local color" pieces by Normal Bob Smith.

You want to speak out again OWS because of the involvement of ANSWER (or any other group) because of their statements, I totally understand that.

This? I don't.

Indeed, it's pretty lazy.

202 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:29:19pm

re: #195 jaunte

Erick the whiner, son of Erick, shows me why I mostly feel like supporting the OWS people even if they haven't figured it all out yet:
[Link: yfrog.com...]

It's that typical TP line that "I work hard so liberals and minorities can sit around and do nothing all day." Pure crap.

203 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:30:16pm

re: #193 freetoken

That's what it was apparently about last week. This week, it got a shot in the arm of legitimacy, thanks to some needless police brutality. Who knows what it will be about, next week.

All I can say is, SNCC had a hard enough time with wide-eyed, entitlement issues kids from the suburbs. I wonder how on earth they would deal with these entitlement issues children of entitlement issues children, today.

204 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:30:27pm

re: #199 makeitstop

I've been watching him raging for a week, wondering 'Why does he care so much?'

He wants the lefty equivalent of the Teahadis to come to pass. He seems really pissed that it hasn't happened yet.

Why would he want that? Not saying you're wrong, just asking.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:30:57pm

re: #134 goddamnedfrank

Strange, the kid identifies himself as a Jew as well.

Not uncommon.

206 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:31:16pm

House GOP triples budget to fight same-sex marriage

House Republican leaders have tripled the amount allocated for a legal team arguing in support of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) from $500,000 to $1.5 million of taxpayer money.

A modified contract between the General Counsel to the House of Representatives and former Solicitor General Paul Clement of Bancroft PLLC sets a cap of $750,000 which can be raised up to $1.5 million.

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

207 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:31:32pm

re: #203 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's what it was apparently about last week. This week, it got a shot in the arm of legitimacy, thanks to some needless police brutality. Who knows what it will be about, next week.

All I can say is, SNCC had a hard enough time with wide-eyed, entitlement issues kids from the suburbs. I wonder how on earth they would deal with these entitlement issues children of entitlement issues children, today.

As I understand it the protesters really aren't an organized, cohesive group with goals --is that right? They are just ripe for the picking for anyone who wants to use them?

208 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:31:44pm

re: #197 ggt

Erickson's in an enviable position, financially, compared to the people he's telling to 'suck it up.' He isn't really 'subsidizing' them, he just claims the victim mantle to feel better about the choices he made.

209 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:31:57pm

re: #204 palomino

Why would he want that? Not saying you're wrong, just asking.

I wish I knew. He sure likes to rage about it, that's for sure.

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:32:17pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Suck it up, moonbats. It's not like I didn;t tell you that the protests were inititiated by the antisemites at adbusters, Anon, ANSWER, and the Marxists from World Workers Party, Socialist Alternative, Party for Socialism and Revolution, etc. You were warned and this is what you decided to support. Fuck you, Fuck your protests, and fuck your ignorant rabid instincts that led you to support this bullshit beyond all reason and common sense.

I think you're overreacting, but I'm updinging you anyway for an outpouring of deep and genuine exasperation.

211 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:32:24pm

re: #208 jaunte

Erickson's in an enviable position, financially, compared to the people he's telling to 'suck it up.' He isn't really 'subsidizing' them, he just claims the victim mantle to feel better about the choices he made.

Internet gives everyone a bully pulpit?

212 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:34:52pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you're overreacting, but I'm updinging you anyway for an outpouring of deep and genuine exasperation.

Catharsis has its values.

213 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:35:47pm

re: #212 freetoken

Catharsis has its values.

We are the Lizard Sounding Board.

214 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:36:24pm

re: #202 palomino

"I have a house I can't sell."

Well, not right now, at a profit, you mean. Welcome to the free market, noob.

215 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:36:50pm

re: #196 The Ghost of a Flea

You want to speak out again OWS because of the involvement of ANSWER (or any other group) because of their statements, I totally understand that.

This? I don't.

When asked for specifics on these "lefty sites" that "top rate" that states rights ron paul guy, as well as those listed over the past few days, none were forthcoming.

We got only some tantrum, and storming off.

Lol I didn't even doubt that "lefty sites" "top rated" the ones KT found so problematic.

216 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:36:54pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

Not uncommon.

True, and not necessarily relevant. What is relevant is the other videos that show Mr. Lotion Man to be a completely unstable wack-a-doo that appears to be barely associated with baryonic matter let alone OWS.

217 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:37:06pm

re: #195 jaunte

Erick the whiner, son of Erick, shows me why I mostly feel like supporting the OWS people even if they haven't figured it all out yet:
[Link: yfrog.com...]

Notice Erickson says he's part of the "53% of Americans who are subsidizing" the other 47%. I assume this refers to the nearly half of Americans who don't pay federal income taxes.

Can Erickson really be this stupid? That lower 47% pays sales taxes, gas taxes, payroll taxes, and in some cases property taxes. That bottom 47% combined owns only 1.5% of the nation's wealth. How much more could they possibly pay? You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

218 allegro  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:38:00pm

re: #207 ggt

As I understand it the protesters really aren't an organized, cohesive group with goals --is that right? They are just ripe for the picking for anyone who wants to use them?

Just because the group isn't organized doesn't make them suckers. What a bizarre assumption.

219 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:38:15pm

re: #207 ggt

As I understand it the protesters really aren't an organized, cohesive group with goals --is that right? They are just ripe for the picking for anyone who wants to use them?

Hmm, I think you might be underestimating them. You make them sound like drones. Why can't they be people who truly care and feel this is their only way to get their voices heard? Here in LA, the protests have been peaceful and supported by LAPD and LAFD.

Oh and our job talk, making training for real trades available is a very good thing.

220 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:38:18pm

re: #217 palomino

Cheapskates! They won't buy his house!

221 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:38:24pm

re: #208 jaunte

Erickson's in an enviable position, financially, compared to the people he's telling to 'suck it up.' He isn't really 'subsidizing' them, he just claims the victim mantle to feel better about the choices he made.

re: #214 jaunte

"I have a house I can't sell."

Well, not right now, at a profit, you mean. Welcome to the free market, noob.

Actually, there are people who can't sell their houses. I think Erick the noob has a valid point. People on each side of this issue have valid points. No one seems to be more right or more wrong.

It sucks all the way around.

222 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:38:48pm

re: #217 palomino

Can Erickson really be this stupid?

Yes.

Though in this case I'd bet it's more a case of simple duplicity.

223 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:39:45pm

re: #207 ggt

As I understand it the protesters really aren't an organized, cohesive group with goals --is that right? They are just ripe for the picking for anyone who wants to use them?

I wouldn't know. But their public face does seem to have changed over the weekend, especially with the addition of real unions and not just the ANSWER/WWP crankodoodles.

Next week? Anybody's guess. I find it interesting. I also find the conservative pearl-clutching equally interesting. And hilarious.

224 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:40:06pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Suck it up, moonbats. It's not like I didn't tell you that the protests were inititiated by the antisemites at adbusters, Anon, ANSWER, and the Marxists from World Workers Party, Socialist Alternative, Party for Socialism and Revolution, etc. You were warned and this is what you decided to support. Fuck you, Fuck your protests, and fuck your ignorant rabid instincts that led you to support this bullshit beyond all reason and common sense.

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

225 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:40:14pm

re: #217 palomino

What has Erik done useful in his life anyway?

I can be a fair bit nastier, but I hold it for now.

226 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:40:19pm

re: #219 boxhead

Hmm, I think you might be underestimating them. You make them sound like drones. Why can't they be people who truly care and feel this is their only way to get their voices heard? Here in LA, the protests have been peaceful and supported by LAPD and LAFD.

Oh and our job talk, making training for real trades available is a very good thing.

What are they doing besides protesting?

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:42:33pm

re: #216 goddamnedfrank

True, and not necessarily relevant. What is relevant is the other videos that show Mr. Lotion Man to be a completely unstable wack-a-doo that appears to be barely associated with baryonic matter let alone OWS.

Probably true.

We'll see who shows up next.

228 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:43:06pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

Occupy Wall Street Protestor on Federal Reserve

[Video]/Not found on a wingut site, Top rated on lefty site.

Which lefty site?

229 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:43:13pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

They bring up some good points though.

Wealth has become too concentrated in this nation. In addition, the Financial Companies are continuing to make a killing while most of the rest of the US struggles.

230 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:44:09pm

re: #207 ggt

As I understand it the protesters really aren't an organized, cohesive group with goals --is that right? They are just ripe for the picking for anyone who wants to use them?

You've got a lot of concerned people who aren't sure what they think; they just feel something is wrong. Their general knowledge extends as far as Wall Street being part of the issue.

You've got clumps of ideologues opportunistically trying to harness the larger group: market them your ideas, get signatures, take photos of the crowd and claim "they're all with me!"

231 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:44:25pm

re: #226 ggt

What are they doing besides protesting?

They're calling attention to a problem. It's not like there's no value in that alone.

And they're 'protesting' in a lot of cities. Anything that stimulates the dialog is a good thing, no matter how you feel about the protestors themselves.

232 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:44:33pm

re: #217 palomino

Notice Erickson says he's part of the "53% of Americans who are subsidizing" the other 47%. I assume this refers to the nearly half of Americans who don't pay federal income taxes.

Can Erickson really be this stupid? That lower 47% pays sales taxes, gas taxes, payroll taxes, and in some cases property taxes. That bottom 47% combined owns only 1.5% of the nation's wealth. How much more could they possibly pay? You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

That, and a certain proportion has already "paid their federal income taxes" throughout their working years, and are now retired.

Just as Erick son of a Bitch will be, and some 5 year old today will be supposedly "subsidising" his unwashed confederate butt.

233 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:44:42pm

re: #221 ggt

re: #214 jaunte

Actually, there are people who can't sell their houses. I think Erick the noob has a valid point. People on each side of this issue have valid points. No one seems to be more right or more wrong.

It sucks all the way around.

I was hanging with a friend who had to walk away from his house. He tried tree times to get a loan modification from Chase, who he had his mortgage with. Chase pretty much ignored him. Now that he has left his home, Chase is really interested in talking with him. The Banks do not give a shit about us unless we are enriching them. That is Issue number one for the OWS folks.

BTW, my friend is a Peace Officer, and his wife works as well. They are part of the 99%.

234 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:45:14pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

Lol you are so full of crap.

235 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:45:30pm

re: #221 ggt

I would just suggest to Erick that he not sell his house at an inopportune time. Sometimes you have to wait.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:46:48pm

re: #218 allegro

Just because the group isn't organized doesn't make them suckers. What a bizarre assumption.

That's what happened with ANSWER in San Francisco in 2003.

I wish I was less cynical about this whole thing but...I'm incurably cynical about this whole thing.

237 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:47:18pm

re: #225 ProLifeLiberal

What has Erik done useful in his life anyway?

He's been the public face of confederate conservative bigotry for, oh, at least 5 years now.

That's got to count with someone. /

238 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:47:20pm

re: #226 ggt

What are they doing besides protesting?

Trying to get the rest of us to hear them. With the media, for the most part, censoring them, they are trying. If the rest of USA hears and understands why they are doing this, then, maybe, we can move to step two. But for now, working to make themselves heard is hard enough.

239 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:47:33pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

Is it possible that, removing the nutcases, a similar organization could have a valid critique of Wall Street?

Certainly you're not saying that an organized protest against Wall Street's actions over the last few years is inherently beyond the pale.

240 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:48:32pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

Then you will make the same mistake the Dems did with the teabaggers.

241 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:48:58pm

re: #229 ProLifeLiberal

Even if wealth is too concentrated (and I'm not saying it is), government redistribution and additional controls are not the answer. The answer is to allow people to innovate and invest more easily, not stifle both under a mountain of regulation.

242 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:49:13pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

It cracks me up you take the time to parse things so that they lack the fortitude of the Tea Party. It's almost like you're trying to score points or something.

243 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:50:08pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

Raise taxes.

244 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:50:25pm

re: #238 boxhead

Trying to get the rest of us to hear them. With the media, for the most part, censoring them, they are trying. If the rest of USA hears and understands why they are doing this, then, maybe, we can move to step two. But for now, working to make themselves heard is hard enough.

This is where I am confused. WHAT ARE THEY SAYING? They are unhappy? That's just not enough for me to jump on the bandwagon.

With out organization and leadership, there is no bandwagon.

From what I see it's a bunch of people who don't FEEL right about things, getting together with signs and getting high off the group experience. I'm just not seeing anything I can sink my teeth into.

I'm not happy with the current situation, I don't think anyone is, but I don't see how the protestors are anything but a distraction.

245 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:51:09pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

That's what happened with ANSWER in San Francisco in 2003.

I wish I was less cynical about this whole thing but...I'm incurably cynical about this whole thing.

Well, I'm still very cynical about them, based on similar history. But less so, because unlike SF 2003, people are taking the spotlight away from the ANSWER jackwads and actually getting some coverage.

Could'a knocked me over with a feather when I saw it happening a couple days ago. My hopes are still dim, but they are still there. I know something is changing with that set, if only because in general, the right has suddenly gotten mighty shrill and pouty over the past couple of days.

246 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:51:14pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

Even if wealth is too concentrated (and I'm not saying it is)

Huh?

Make the case to me that wealth is not too concentrated, please.

247 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:51:50pm

re: #240 boxhead

Then you will make the same mistake the Dems did with the teabaggers.

That does not follow, thankfully. At the very least, despite its nutcases, the GOP can and should make use of the Tea Party to counter these sorts of protests. We need our own rallies, where conservatives remind people of how those sorts of far=left policies have always ended in disaster. People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

248 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:53:04pm

re: #230 The Ghost of a Flea

And this is where Egypt is a warning.

My understanding of this comes from Sandmonkey:

When SCAF came into power, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafists went running to them looking for a piece of the pie. SCAF was willing to go into an arrangement with them.

Now, Christian Churches are burning often, and things haven't changed. Also, the Muslim Brotherhood has fissioned on Age Lines.

Egypt will have to have a 3rd Revolution to throw out SCAF and their collaborators, which will have to occur after the monetary support of the Salafists has ended.

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

I see no other way. We have lower social mobility now than every OECD nation except the UK. When there is now money in the lower sectors, and no one wants to spend money on schools, especially in minority areas, the private industry won't help.

We allowed deregulation and lower taxes. Here we are.

To think Private Industry will help is (to me) ludicrous. The Private Sector only cares about increasing profits, not the greater good or societal morality.

Which is why government exists. To keep the Robber Barons in check and pick up after their messes.

249 allegro  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:53:13pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

Certainly not going that way thus far. Those facts do seem to be coming to light. The facts that the lower and middle classes are being crushed by the union of WS and government is a fact that is about damned time coming out loudly and publicly. Many better than I have wondered where the pitchforks and tar have been in the past couple of years after seeing tax money bail out and reward those who have put us in this place. We may be seeing the beginning of people finally saying "fuck this shit!" and have it heard.

I think that would be a very cool result.

250 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:53:35pm

re: #244 ggt

This is where I am confused. WHAT ARE THEY SAYING? They are unhappy? That's just not enough for me to jump on the bandwagon.

With out organization and leadership, there is no bandwagon.

From what I see it's a bunch of people who don't FEEL right about things, getting together with signs and getting high off the group experience. I'm just not seeing anything I can sink my teeth into.

I'm not happy with the current situation, I don't think anyone is, but I don't see how the protestors are anything but a distraction.

I have posted links, long lists of grievances, and other such info... No disrespect, but they were not hard to find.

As for being a distraction, I think it is the opposite. They are trying to bring sunlight to the dark murky underbelly of our society.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:53:45pm

re: #245 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, I'm still very cynical about them, based on similar history. But less so, because unlike SF 2003, people are taking the spotlight away from the ANSWER jackwads and actually getting some coverage.

Could'a knocked me over with a feather when I saw it happening a couple days ago. My hopes are still dim, but they are still there. I know something is changing with that set, if only because in general, the right has suddenly gotten mighty shrill and pouty over the past couple of days.

I hope your instincts on this are good. I wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised by this crowd.

252 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:54:05pm
253 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:54:41pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

The answer is to allow people to innovate and invest more easily, not stifle both under a mountain of regulation.

You sound like Andrew Ryan.

254 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:54:56pm

re: #246 makeitstop

Wealth is certainly now less well-distributed than talent.

Robert Reich:

Mr. Obama should point out that the United States economy is now more than twice the size it was in 1980, but the real median wage has barely budged; that in the late 1970s, the richest 1 percent of Americans got about 9 percent of total income, while by the start of the Great Recession the richest received more than 23 percent; that wealth is now even more concentrated. And the economy is bogged down because most Americans, unable to borrow as before, no longer have the purchasing power to get it moving again.[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:54:59pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

The Tea Party doesn't have a clue how money is made, as far as I can tell.

256 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:55:08pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

Even if wealth is too concentrated (and I'm not saying it is), government redistribution and additional controls are not the answer. The answer is to allow people to innovate and invest more easily, not stifle both under a mountain of regulation.

Wasn't a lack of Wall St. regulation (post Glass-Steagall) a big part of the reason we nearly collapsed back in 2008?

What's been done since the 90s (a time of great innovation, high taxes, more regulations, and tremendous wealth creation) that has made it more difficult for people to "innovate and invest easily?"

257 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:55:11pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

That does not follow, thankfully. At the very least, despite its nutcases, the GOP can and should make use of the Tea Party to counter these sorts of protests. We need our own rallies, where conservatives remind people of how those sorts of far=left policies have always ended in disaster. People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

FDR's policies ended in disaster?

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:56:08pm

re: #250 boxhead

I have posted links, long lists of grievances, and other such info... No disrespect, but they were not hard to find.

I've seen the long lists of grievances.

259 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:56:18pm

re: #250 boxhead

I have posted links, long lists of grievances, and other such info... No disrespect, but they were not hard to find.

As for being a distraction, I think it is the opposite. They are trying to bring sunlight to the dark murky underbelly of our society.

I see one link under [Link: www.littlegreenfootballs.com...]

260 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:56:33pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

Even if wealth is too concentrated (and I'm not saying it is), government redistribution and additional controls are not the answer. The answer is to allow people to innovate and invest more easily, not stifle both under a mountain of regulation.

it wouldn't hurt for the gummint to get the ball rolling by hiring a couple million people, and it wouldn't hurt to see to it that nobody starves to death in the meantime, while we're waiting for the "job creators" to get off their duffs and do something already

what do they need, an engraved invitation?

the point of progressivism isn't to "redistribute wealth" for the sake of it, or to stifle business under a mountain of regulation, it's to stop people and entities from cheating, hurting, and exploiting people, and to work together to build a better life for us all

a garden, not a jungle

261 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:56:33pm

Supply side economics is putting the cart before the horse and wondering why it won't go.

262 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:57:40pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

perhaps the members of the tea party are in favor of the bailout and all the other things that happen on wall st

263 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:57:56pm

re: #259 ggt

I see one link under [Link: www.littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Here is one..

[Link: www.commondreams.org...]

264 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:59:36pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

I hope to be so, too. I'm open to it.

I'm also prepared for their utter failure, since like their conservative counterparts, they are historically disabled.

It would not be the first time, by any means. I also know the right is desperate for their failure, at any cost.

Or is it their success, if their gullibility can be commandeered into apathy for staying home next Novemever..

265 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:59:43pm

re: #260 engineer dog

it wouldn't hurt for the gummint to get the ball rolling by hiring a couple million people, and it wouldn't hurt to see to it that nobody starves to death in the meantime, while we're waiting for the "job creators" to get off their duffs and do something already

what do they need, an engraved invitation?

the point of progressivism isn't to "redistribute wealth" for the sake of it, or to stifle business under a mountain of regulation, it's to stop people and entities from cheating, hurting, and exploiting people, and to work together to build a better life for us all

a garden, not a jungle

ding ding ding ding.... we have a winner folks.... :)

266 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:00:09pm

Without demand, your supply is meaningless.
In order to have demand, you need people with money to spend on your supply.
No money, no demand. No sale.

This ain't quantum mechanics.

267 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:00:31pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

That does not follow, thankfully. At the very least, despite its nutcases, the GOP can and should make use of the Tea Party to counter these sorts of protests. We need our own rallies, where conservatives remind people of how those sorts of far=left policies have always ended in disaster. People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

So the GOP should have a far right that it "uses" and at least pretends to respect?

But the Dems shouldn't have a corresponding far left? Huh?

268 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:01:13pm

re: #266 Varek Raith

This ain't quantum mechanics.

Perversely, I find QM easier than economics.

269 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:01:39pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

All you do is spout mindless pablum. You didn't even understand how tax brackets worked yet you want us to believe you and your advisors understand how money is made? A party that understands money would capitalize on a down economy to get needed deferred maintenance completed when labor and materials costs are at their lowest.

270 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:01:41pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

That does not follow, thankfully. At the very least, despite its nutcases, the GOP can and should make use of the Tea Party to counter these sorts of protests. We need our own rallies, where conservatives remind people of how those sorts of far=left policies have always ended in disaster. People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

lmao

I'm on a bunch of tea party lists. They're lucky if Judson Philips can rouse you all into a heartfelt, patriotic protest in favor of special rights for white straights.

The tea party can't even muster that much, these days.

271 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:01:45pm

re: #268 freetoken

Perversely, I find QM easier than economics.

True dat.
:)

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:01:49pm

re: #261 Varek Raith

Supply side economics is putting the cart before the horse and wondering why it won't goblaming the horse for laziness and lack of intitiative.

273 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:02:02pm

re: #268 freetoken

Perversely, I find QM easier than economics.

yes... At least QM does not have people messing everything up.. :)

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:02:18pm
275 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:02:58pm

re: #273 boxhead

yes... At least QM does not have people messing everything up.. :)

...
..
.
If only you knew...
But, I've said too much.
:P

276 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:03:00pm

re: #267 palomino

I remember him saying way long ago that he was more worried about his side winning (My memory may be forgetting something).

To be honest, I'm a bit the same way. Mostly because of Personal Experience and, more recently, Utoya (the increased anger is gone, but not the conviction).

277 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:03:35pm

kids who only know how to spend it

perhaps business people would like to get along without people who know how to spend money

278 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:03:50pm

re: #274 ggt

Every time I see "living wage" I ask myself ; "what would a zombie do with a living wage?"

279 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:04:08pm

re: #278 freetoken

Every time I see "living wage" I ask myself ; "what would a zombie do with a living wage?"

Bigot!
/

280 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:04:19pm

re: #274 ggt

This List of Demands?

That specific list ain't gonna work. None of it.

And the only members of Congress who would sign on are Kucinich and ....? Maybe a half dozen others in the House, tops.

281 jaunte  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:04:28pm

re: #278 freetoken

BraaaainnzzzMart!

282 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:04:55pm

re: #260 engineer dog

it wouldn't hurt for the gummint to get the ball rolling by hiring a couple million people, and it wouldn't hurt to see to it that nobody starves to death in the meantime, while we're waiting for the "job creators" to get off their duffs and do something already

what do they need, an engraved invitation?

the point of progressivism isn't to "redistribute wealth" for the sake of it, or to stifle business under a mountain of regulation, it's to stop people and entities from cheating, hurting, and exploiting people, and to work together to build a better life for us all

a garden, not a jungle

How can businesses hire, when they don't know if the Euro will collapse or even at what rate they will be taxed or what regulations they will be subject to. Banks will not risk their money when they may be subject to more taxes and see their opportunities to innovate shrunk.

And as for the government hiring, as president Obama would like to do, I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them. Additional borrowing right now is a very bad idea. Things like school districts must live within their means.

283 blueraven  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:05:52pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

Occupy Wall Street Protestor on Federal Reserve

[Video]/Not found on a wingut site, Top rated on lefty site.
//Goodluck with that

Paul bots? Top rated on lefty sites?

284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:06:01pm

re: #262 engineer dog

perhaps the members of the tea party are in favor of the bailout and all the other things that happen on wall st

Aww, now you know that will go right over his head.

285 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:06:06pm

re: #280 palomino

I have different ideas for what is needed, but I'm not involved in the protests. They have to dial it back from "Revolutionary Socialist" to "Calm Social Democratic"

286 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:06:08pm

both the one I found (listed in a post way up thread) and the one Boxhead posted "demanded" the end to free trade.

Isn't that isolationism?

No more outsourcing of jobs as well.

Don't see that happening either.

On these two points they seem to be in line with the TPers.

287 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:06:24pm

re: #274 ggt

This List of Demands?

hmmm I only like 6 out of those 13.

288 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:06:26pm

"The poor will always be with you", someone famous once said.

289 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:07:33pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

Cutting Education is the LAST thing we should do. Cut other places first, otherwise, we end up with a less capable generation in the future.

290 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:07:34pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

How can businesses hire, when they don't know if the Euro will collapse or even at what rate they will be taxed or what regulations they will be subject to. Banks will not risk their money when they may be subject to more taxes and see their opportunities to innovate shrunk.

And as for the government hiring, as president Obama would like to do, I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them. Additional borrowing right now is a very bad idea. Things like school districts must live within their means.

Lol none of that was original.

Can't you ever devise your own thoughts on any issue?

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:08:38pm

re: #286 ggt

both the one I found (listed in a post way up thread) and the one Boxhead posted "demanded" the end to free trade.

Isn't that isolationism?

No more outsourcing of jobs as well.

Don't see that happening either.

On these two points they seem to be in line with the TPers.

I'm not sure you can call something isolationism that apparently calls for free movement into the country to work.

292 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:08:44pm

re: #288 freetoken

"The poor will always be with you", someone famous once said.

Some other famous guy said, "You can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half."

293 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:08:52pm

re: #283 blueraven

Paul bots? Top rated on lefty sites?

Don't hold your breath for an answer.

One will never be forthcoming, I'm afraid.

294 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:09:31pm

re: #287 boxhead

Only 6 or 7 here too.

There are 2 to 3 others that, if moderated or clarified, I would support, and one which needs clarification.

295 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:09:42pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

How can businesses hire, when they don't know if the Euro will collapse or even at what rate they will be taxed or what regulations they will be subject to. Banks will not risk their money when they may be subject to more taxes and see their opportunities to innovate shrunk.

And as for the government hiring, as president Obama would like to do, I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them. Additional borrowing right now is a very bad idea. Things like school districts must live within their means.

Sorry man, the private sector can live without most of the corporate welfare they get. Cut that first.
Get that sorted, then we'll talk about cutting social programs.
Ninja edit!

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:09:55pm

re: #291 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not sure you can call something isolationism that apparently calls for free movement into the country to work.

Or for that matter, free movement into the country to hang out.

297 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:10:30pm

re: #260 engineer dog

i

the point of progressivism isn't to "redistribute wealth" for the sake of it, or to stifle business under a mountain of regulation, it's to stop people and entities from cheating, hurting, and exploiting people, and to work together to build a better life for us all

Who decides what is a better life?

a garden, not a jungle

You are much more of an optimist than I am. People will do whatever they have to survive.

298 allegro  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:11:12pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

How can businesses hire, when they don't know if the Euro will collapse or even at what rate they will be taxed or what regulations they will be subject to. Banks will not risk their money when they may be subject to more taxes and see their opportunities to innovate shrunk.

And as for the government hiring, as president Obama would like to do, I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them. Additional borrowing right now is a very bad idea. Things like school districts must live within their means.

Bullshit. All of this. Pure propagandist bullshit.

299 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:11:47pm

re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist

I believe a Schengen Agreement sort of thing we be a good thing between the US, Canada, and some Caribbean States. Along with Immigration reform and simplification.


This proposal goes about 50 steps too far.

300 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:12:24pm

re: #291 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not sure you can call something isolationism that apparently calls for free movement into the country to work.

I thought that point was kinda opposite as well. No free trade, but free movement of people?

I don't get it.

301 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:12:35pm

re: #286 ggt

both the one I found (listed in a post way up thread) and the one Boxhead posted "demanded" the end to free trade.

Isn't that isolationism?

No more outsourcing of jobs as well.

Don't see that happening either.

On these two points they seem to be in line with the TPers.

There's definitely more in common between the two groups than one might think at first glance. Both are distrustful of large institutions. It's just that the TP hates govt the most; and the OWS hates big business the most. But since govt and big biz are so cozy now, hating one necessarily involves at least suspicion of the other. It's the TP/OWS Overlap Phenomenon.

302 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:12:44pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

How can businesses hire, when they don't know if the Euro will collapse or even at what rate they will be taxed or what regulations they will be subject to. Banks will not risk their money when they may be subject to more taxes and see their opportunities to innovate shrunk.

And as for the government hiring, as president Obama would like to do, I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them. Additional borrowing right now is a very bad idea. Things like school districts must live within their means.

Alright, I hear this a lot from the right.
Prove it.
Show me when in history this has been the case.
Then, tell me why when the tax rates were higher, this did not happen.

303 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:12:47pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

... I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them.

Raise taxes.

304 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:13:36pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

How can businesses hire, when they don't know if the Euro will collapse or even at what rate they will be taxed or what regulations they will be subject to. Banks will not risk their money when they may be subject to more taxes and see their opportunities to innovate shrunk.

i don't share your opinion of the emotional fragility of american business

And as for the government hiring, as president Obama would like to do, I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them. Additional borrowing right now is a very bad idea. Things like school districts must live within their means.

the major part of the money drought for govenment was created by the bush tax cuts which were already the prescription that you now call for more of

and yet it didn't work then and it won't work now

i'm not calling for additional borrowing. BUSINESSES ARE SITTING ON A VERY PRETTY PILE OF CASH RIGHT NOW AND THEY AIN'T A-HIRING

perhaps we would not be too rude or importunate if we politely requested that those who are in possession of somewhat more than is needed to eat and pay the rent contribute perhaps just a little bit more to help the rest of us out of this hole

as my grandfather might have said, "it vouldn't kill a person"

305 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:14:30pm

re: #297 ggt

Who decides what is a better life?

this is a democracy and we take votes

306 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:15:23pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

I simply remind people that the local governments that would hire those people are broke, and the federal government does not have the money to give them.

And that's mainly because the genii in the Republican party are deep into a death hug with 'no raising taxes under any circumstances.'

That's the end result of the tax-free utopia Republicans want, right there. 'The local governments are broke.'

307 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:15:24pm

Somehow I think we need to concentrate on the Health Care issue and get it out of the way.

I think business (tiny, small, large and gigantic) is very concerned about the cost of Health care. If the costs were fixed for them (meaning determined --something that can be accurately forecasted) they might be more willing to move forward in hiring and expansion in this country.

308 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:15:34pm

re: #289 ProLifeLiberal

Cutting Education is the LAST thing we should do.

Not if you are a conservative.

Why does anyone think the first thing they curtailed with nonwhites was our access to eduation?

They HATE education and especially educated people.

That's because they know educated people will never permit them to tell us how to run our own lives.

Cut other places first, otherwise, we end up with a less capable generation in the future.

The private sector is so superior, let conservative authoritarians go beg the private sector for bombs and guns instead of no-bid contracts.

309 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:16:30pm

re: #303 freetoken

Raise taxes.

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further. It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

Goodnight.

310 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:18:02pm

re: #300 ggt

I thought that point was kinda opposite as well. No free trade, but free movement of people?

I don't get it.

I think part of the issue is that there are several different groups/ideologies involved. They're trying to combine a populist appeal to protect the American worker through ending outsourcing and implementing old-fashioned protectionism with the ideological far left's opposition to immigration control, and this is what you get.

It's a weird enough mix, and I am little enough of an economics scholar to have very little idea what would happen if you tried this, but I suspect that they haven't considered all of the ramifications of such a position.

It's a hybrid document, put together fairly swiftly. More of a laundry list from several different people's laundry, than a uniform statement.

311 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:18:14pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further. It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

No, it is not.

"Wealth producers" is a fantasy, a phrase concocted, and which I accord to a place with the "tooth fairy".

312 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:18:32pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further. It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

Goodnight.

Goodnight.
You're alright, even if I sometimes want to smack you on the back of the head.
:P

313 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:20:08pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further.

According to...

It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

Parroted, repeated pablum scraped off the top of Americans for Prosperity.

Goodnight.

Conservatives are such cowards.

314 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:20:45pm

I wanted to share this earlier. I'm still watching the TVTropes conversation from earlier. However, someone from Toronto had an interesting comment and story:

(From Someone Else)
Correction, some customs are incompatible with progress, including formerly Canadian ones like the residential schools for natives. Cultures change over time, and it (hopefully) doesn't take outside influence to realize that some things are wrong. For example, I don't see the mistreatment of women as any more acceptable in Saudi Arabia than it would be in Canada.

So spousal abuse and honour killings are progressive?

It's interesting: there was a case of a Muslim father killing his daughter because she wore a hijab (or some form of it).

Radical, it's a lot easier to say to do away with nationality when you travel a lot

The bolded is a major inversion of the stereotype spread by Geller and others. Apparently, this story caused waves locally.

315 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:21:12pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further. It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

Goodnight.

again, you make two fundamental mistakes:

1. we are proposing raising PERSONAL income taxes. businessmen do not hire employees out of their own salaries

2. businesses do not hire more employees just because they have more or less cash. this is just naive. if a business thinks it will make more money if it hires more people, it will go into debt to get the money to do so

It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers

excuse my rude tone, but what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

316 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:21:47pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made,

You still really believe this, huh?

317 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:22:22pm

re: #297 ggt

You are much more of an optimist than I am. People will do whatever they have to survive.

That's one of the libbercon ideas behind open borders.

318 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:23:10pm

re: #317 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's one of the libbercon ideas behind open borders.

accept that it is a jungle, not a garden and take down the fences?

319 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:24:18pm

re: #311 freetoken

No, it is not.

"Wealth producers" is a fantasy, a phrase concocted, and which I accord to a place with the "tooth fairy".

i spit on these self-appointed aristocrats who are please to think that they are the ones who "create wealth" - whatever that is supposed to mean

if they can make their money without depending on us lowly "employees" and "workers" who they arrogantly set themselves above and apart from, let them go ahead and do it

320 palomino  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:24:48pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further. It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

Goodnight.

A big part of our problem right now is a lack of consumer demand. Wouldn't putting more cash in more people's hands right now ameliorate the situation?

As for taxes, if we're ever gonna balance the budget, not to mention tackle the debt, we need to bring in more revenue. At some point taxes have to go up, unless we slash federal spending pretty much across the board.

And why is it that you never answer the question, "If these ideas are so bad, how did the 90s happen?"

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:25:11pm

re: #314 ProLifeLiberal

I wanted to share this earlier. I'm still watching the TVTropes conversation from earlier. However, someone from Toronto had an interesting comment and story:

The bolded is a major inversion of the stereotype spread by Geller and others. Apparently, this story caused waves locally.

Part of the Geller problem is that they tend to assume that any family homicide involving Muslims is 'an honor killing'. I've seen them attach it to things like 'Father kills wife, kids, self, after home is foreclosed on'. That's a family annhilator, not an honor killing, and you see it in families across the religious and ethnic board.

Can you find a link to the case in question?

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:26:46pm

re: #315 engineer dog

It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers

excuse my rude tone, but what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

'Wealth consumers' is a term that should, IMHO, apply only to one's children, not to working people.

323 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:27:03pm

re: #315 engineer dog

It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers

excuse my rude tone, but what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

I believe the normal-people translation is, "I own you". Or, "In my dreams, I own you and you're supposed to bolster my personal wealth."

It's conservative confederate wishful thinking, from a bigot who instinctively knows they are no better than you or I, so needs government to hold everyone else back so they can prosper.

They also need you and I to pay taxes to ensure that particular path of success. This, we call "states rights".

324 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:27:22pm

The deep Id-driven politics that consumes so much of reactionary American social interaction regarding national issues is a wonder to behold - a self-destructive orgy of conflicting wants and demands, not wanting to be restrained by a rational understanding of the world around us.

My answer?

Raise taxes.

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:29:22pm

re: #324 freetoken

The deep Id-driven politics that consumes so much of reactionary American social interaction regarding national issues is a wonder to behold - a self-destructive orgy of conflicting wants and demands, not wanting to be restrained by a rational understanding of the world around us.

My answer?

Raise taxes.

So, freetoken, do you think we should raise taxes?

326 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:29:37pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

Part of the Geller problem is that they tend to assume that any family homicide involving Muslims is 'an honor killing'. I've seen them attach it to things like 'Father kills wife, kids, self, after home is foreclosed on'. That's a family annhilator, not an honor killing, and you see it in families across the religious and ethnic board.

Can you find a link to the case in question?

Inversely, no domestic homicide done by non-Muslims is classified as an honor killing...even if the motives--shame, fear of loss of public face--fit.

327 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:30:02pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

'Wealth consumers' is a term that should, IMHO, apply only to one's children, not to working people.

"Wealth consumers" is just a euphemism for "parasite".

Conservative supremacists believe everyone else around them are the parasites, even as they know they themselves are the parasites off of the people who do the *actual* work.

They look down on us, yet call us the elitists. Everything in Conservatopia is upside down, and backwards.

328 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:31:07pm

re: #268 freetoken

Perversely, I find QM easier than economics.

That's because economics is a much more theoretically fractured discipline than physics.

Personally, I dismiss the Austrians as well as the Keynesians.

329 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:31:26pm

re: #324 freetoken

The deep Id-driven politics that consumes so much of reactionary American social interaction regarding national issues is a wonder to behold - a self-destructive orgy of conflicting wants and demands, not wanting to be restrained by a rational understanding of the world around us.

My answer?

Raise taxes.

this will be the first election in well over thirty years where there is really strong majority public opinion behind this proposition

ronald reagan's magic formula for gop victory has finally lost its fairy dust

330 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:33:18pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

Unfortunately no, I asked the guy there (I have an account too on TVTropes). I'm asking the question again, more detailed, and will see the answer in the morning.

It's late, so I'm going to bed.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:33:28pm

re: #326 The Ghost of a Flea

Inversely, no domestic homicide done by non-Muslims is classified as an honor killing...even if the motives--shame, fear of loss of public face--fit.

Bingo.

332 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:36:31pm

re: #324 freetoken

The deep Id-driven politics that consumes so much of reactionary American social interaction regarding national issues is a wonder to behold - a self-destructive orgy of conflicting wants and demands, not wanting to be restrained by a rational understanding of the world around us.

That orgy you're witnessing is the result of about 15 generations of people, eaten up with the guilt of unearned privilege.

They have convinced themselves they are entitled to what little material trinkets they have, all while knowing the numbers of people the government held back so their kind can prosper.

Looking at the Obamas reminds them every day just how wrong and how vicious and venal their legacy is.

That's some kind of congnitive dissonance. Ehh, better them than me.

333 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:38:22pm

I will say the comment section is full of entertainment

"everyone should get a helicopter that runs on children's laughter"

I've never heard that before.

334 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:39:06pm

re: #332 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That orgy you're witnessing is the result of about 15 generations of people, eaten up with the guilt of unearned privilege.

They have convinced themselves they are entitled to what little material trinkets they have, all while knowing the numbers of people the government held back so their kind can prosper.

Looking at the Obamas reminds them every day just how wrong and how vicious and venal their legacy is.

That's some kind of congnitive dissonance. Ehh, better them than me.

My iPhone is a RIGHT damnit!

/

335 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:42:43pm

re: #334 ggt

My iPhone is a RIGHT damnit!

/

They think everything they wish and desire is a right. Including that automatic iOS 5 upgrade, even if they have an early iphone or ipod. ///

336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:44:51pm

re: #328 000G

That's because economics is a much more theoretically fractured discipline than physics.

Personally, I dismiss the Austrians as well as the Keynesians.

It's a funny thing about fads. The year I took Econ 101, John Maynard might has well have been on his way to beatification.

What they didn't tell us was the havoc it was wreaking in South America at the time.

That, they saved for Hellbound Theologies in Latin America 101 class lol

337 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:45:22pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further. It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

Now you are just regurgitating Fox News propaganda, DF.

Take a minute to contemplate why "wealth producers" are able to produce wealth. Then take a minute to contemplate why "wealth consumers" are not able to produce wealth. Then take a minute to contemplate why fewer and fewer people belong to the "wealth producers" and why they, at the same time, produce more and more wealth... and for whom.

Job creators hoarding cash, not creating jobs
Who does the work in America?

338 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:47:07pm


and Benjamin Franklin:

A lady asked Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.

339 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:48:51pm

re: #336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There's quite a few stories to tell, too, about central banks in those countries, and how nationalizing the banking systems in order to secure permanent refinancing schemes for political gains has completely poisoned some economies for a long time.

340 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:49:43pm

I'm IMing with my mother in law.

She's in love with some woman she met on the Internet.

This is not happening to me. Again.

341 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:51:50pm

re: #340 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm IMing with my mother in law.

She's in love with some woman she met on the Internet.

This is not happening to me. Again.

I missed the first time, what happened?

342 freetoken  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:51:54pm

re: #329 engineer dog

this will be the first election in well over thirty years where there is really strong majority public opinion behind this proposition

I for one doubt that the Obama campaign or the DNC will actually phrase the issue in terms of the need to increase taxes. They will play on the theme that the rich aren't paying their fair share, but that is where the Democrats will stop - they won't wander into the bigger picture of conflict between Americans' expectations and how the universe actually operates.

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:52:23pm

I'm starting to get what the Victorians were about, with all those strict regulations for mourning. It was to prevent stuff like THIS.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:52:49pm

re: #341 ggt

I missed the first time, what happened?

She moved in with some woman very briefly. It didn't work out.

345 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:52:57pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm starting to get what the Victorians were about, with all those strict regulations for mourning. It was to prevent stuff like THIS.

Stuff like WHAT?

I'm dying here, what is happened?

346 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:53:25pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

She moved in with some woman very briefly. It didn't work out.

after a death?

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:54:01pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

She moved in with some woman very briefly. It didn't work out.

Now she's planning to move cross-country.

348 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:54:39pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

Now she's planning to move cross-country.

As long as she doesn't expect you to help her move . . .

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:56:19pm

re: #346 ggt

after a death?

Yes. Her wife died just over a year ago. She's been at very loose ends ever since, unhappy and uncoupled. There was this woman she moved in with, and that didn't go well, and now she's apparently made a Facebook friend, and is preparing to move three thousand miles to be with her, once the situation with her father's illness calms down.

This is better than when she wanted to die, but it's sort of frightening.

350 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:57:25pm

re: #339 000G

There's quite a few stories to tell, too, about central banks in those countries, and how nationalizing the banking systems in order to secure permanent refinancing schemes for political gains has completely poisoned some economies for a long time.

Funnily enough, a lot of the Paulbots that scream to "End the Fed" want to nationalize the Fed, because their biggest gripe with it is not that it is a central bank on a federal level (which would be inevitable anyhow) but that it is private (it's actually semi-private, but enh, details don't matter much for ideologues). Many Paulbots want full government control of central banking. A lot of them might not realize this, though.

351 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:58:31pm

ken burns in the new prohibition documentary uses no less than three times a rather obscure bix biederbecke recording that i am rather fond of, 'blue river'

352 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:00:54pm

re: #351 engineer dog

Oh yeah, thank you for reminding me. I wanted to watch that:

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

353 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:02:09pm

re: #342 freetoken

I for one doubt that the Obama campaign or the DNC will actually phrase the issue in terms of the need to increase taxes. They will play on the theme that the rich aren't paying their fair share, but that is where the Democrats will stop - they won't wander into the bigger picture of conflict between Americans' expectations and how the universe actually operates.

i think he's gonna corner the gop in the corner that they themselves have painted themselves into, since he knows and says that they have vowed unto death not to raise taxes, and he can read the polls showing how popular it is to 'end the bush tax breaks'. i'm encouraged to see that he is already learning how to play this theme like a piano

354 laZardo  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:08:39pm

re: #350 000G

Funnily enough, a lot of the Paulbots that scream to "End the Fed" want to nationalize the Fed, because their biggest gripe with it is not that it is a central bank on a federal level (which would be inevitable anyhow) but that it is private (it's actually semi-private, but enh, details don't matter much for ideologues). Many Paulbots want full government control of central banking. A lot of them might not realize this, though.

Wait, I thought the Paulbots were against the fed for the vice-versa reason - because the Fed is a government institution and should be fully privatized.

355 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:09:46pm

re: #339 000G

Well, that's what they want, is poisoned financial systems for their own gain.

Ripoff artists.

356 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:11:14pm

re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Her wife died just over a year ago. She's been at very loose ends ever since, unhappy and uncoupled. There was this woman she moved in with, and that didn't go well, and now she's apparently made a Facebook friend, and is preparing to move three thousand miles to be with her, once the situation with her father's illness calms down.

This is better than when she wanted to die, but it's sort of frightening.

I think there is an 18 month phenom. After a loss, relationships that occur with in 18 months tend not to last.

Grief sucks.

357 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:12:12pm

re: #350 000G

Funnily enough, a lot of the Paulbots that scream to "End the Fed" want to nationalize the Fed, because their biggest gripe with it is not that it is a central bank on a federal level (which would be inevitable anyhow) but that it is private (it's actually semi-private, but enh, details don't matter much for ideologues). Many Paulbots want full government control of central banking. A lot of them might not realize this, though.

getting rid of the Fed was on one of the "lists of demands" of the OWC linked above someplace.

358 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:12:54pm

Off to bed.

Have a great morning all!

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:13:05pm

re: #356 ggt

I think there is an 18 month phenom. After a loss, relationships that occur with in 18 months tend not to last.

Grief sucks.

Yeah. I don't know. I know one couple that's gotten together over the Internet where it wasn't a train wreck--and they had mutual friends.

360 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:13:43pm

re: #354 laZardo

Wait, I thought the Paulbots were against the fed for the vice-versa reason - because the Fed is a government institution and should be fully privatized.

N. 000G is right - they are all bent because the Fed has the word "federal" attached to it but it's a private [read: "Jewish controlled"] entity.

It will take them a bit to get to that part in brackets. But given time, they will.

361 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:14:24pm

re: #357 ggt

getting rid of the Fed was on one of the "lists of demands" of the OWC linked above someplace.

This is one of the main sources of that: [Link: www.justin.tv...]

See also: [Link: twitter.com...]

362 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:16:23pm

re: #354 laZardo

Wait, I thought the Paulbots were against the fed for the vice-versa reason - because the Fed is a government institution and should be fully privatized.

The people screaming for privatization usually also think of full decentralization. Some hazed, feverish fantasies about "free banking" (the equivalent of the "free market" myth projected onto banking, see also wildcat banking).

363 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:16:59pm

re: #357 ggt

getting rid of the Fed was on one of the "lists of demands" of the OWC linked above someplace.

Along with the rest of the kitchen sink.

364 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:18:11pm

re: #355 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, that's what they want, is poisoned financial systems for their own gain.

Ripoff artists.

You can tell the ripoff artists of all stripes by their typical defending their own priviledges (or those of their benefactors) as if they were rights.

365 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:24:12pm

re: #364 000G

You can tell the ripoff artists of all stripes by their typical defending their own priviledges (or those of their benefactors) as if they were rights.

Ripoff artists, and simply delusional people...usually dimwit conservatives.

Ask them what point in history have the overpriviliged ever benevolently bestowed their unearned wealth upon those that smile big showy-teeth smiles at them, and you'll be met with angry, resentful silence.

/Schadenfreude

366 Jimmi the Grey  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:24:26pm

re: #338 ggt


and Benjamin Franklin:

I've heard a version of this where it was 2 ladies and the 1st asked...

...Dr. Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy. A republic replied the Doctor if you can keep it.

It finishes with the 2nd lady asking the 1st "I didn't quite hear him, what was his answer?" and the 1st lady replying "A Monarchy, it's just gonna take a while." Or something like that.

367 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:25:45pm

Daily WFMU pimpage: The last Dusty Show featured audio and interviews from a cross-section of people at #OccupyWallStreet (3 hours in total):
[Link: wfmu.org...]

368 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:26:46pm

re: #365 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Confronting ideologues with history generally produces funny results.

369 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:29:27pm

re: #368 000G

Confronting ideologues with history generally produces funny results.

Don't I know it. This is why I love doing it. lol

370 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:31:55pm

re: #365 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ripoff artists, and simply delusional people...usually dimwit conservatives.

Ask them what point in history have the overpriviliged ever benevolently bestowed their unearned wealth upon those that smile big showy-teeth smiles at them, and you'll be met with angry, resentful silence.

/Schadenfreude

The answer they're thinking about but won't give is the Upstairs/Downstairs scenario: the underclass should be grateful for their service positions.

371 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:33:00pm

re: #369 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Speaking of WFMU, you interested in gospel?

372 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:35:35pm

re: #370 The Ghost of a Flea

The answer they're thinking about but won't give is the Upstairs/Downstairs scenario: the underclass should be grateful for their service positions.

Who in their right mind wouldn't be grateful to be kicked in the teeth by God's Favorites!

They are asking for it, just by being born!!

373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:36:46pm

re: #371 000G

Speaking of WFMU, you interested in gospel?

I am.

My roommate, who is like a brother, is an underground favorite on WFMU. Whatcha got?

374 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:39:23pm

re: #373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

This got recommended as Rekkid o'Day on their twitter feed: [Link: www.tompkinssquare.com...]

I am sure you are familiar with Sinner's Crossroads, right? You got any of their premiums?

375 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:47:02pm

re: #373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I am.

My roommate, who is like a brother, is an underground favorite on WFMU. Whatcha got?

Here is my brother's old Christian band, Arrow, from the 80's. Love this song, Reflections....

376 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:49:28pm

re: #202 palomino

It's that typical TP line that "I work hard so liberals and minorities can sit around and do nothing all day." Pure crap.

Here in reality, quite the opposite is the case, has always been the case. It makes the confederates angry and nervous every time we remind them of the violent, repressive legacy their unearned privileges are based on.

I'm not on board with the OWS. But at this point in the game, I admire them for putting the fear of god into the conservatives the past couple days...apparently all it takes is some 13 year old looking girl in a ridiculous green frog hat to do so. I hope their momentum lasts.

/Schadenfreude.

377 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:51:05pm

re: #376 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Here in reality, quite the opposite is the case, has always been the case. It makes the confederates angry and nervous every time we remind them of the violent, repressive legacy their unearned privileges are based on.

I'm not on board with the OWS. But at this point in the game, I admire them for putting the fear of god into the conservatives the past couple days...
apparently all it takes is some 13 year old looking girl in a ridiculous green frog hat to do so. I hope their momentum lasts.

/Schadenfreude.

Then you are on board. You are just waiting for when it is cool to put the hat on... :)

378 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:52:03pm

re: #376 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Here in reality, quite the opposite is the case, has always been the case. It makes the confederates angry and nervous every time we remind them of the violent, repressive legacy their unearned privileges are based on.

I'm not on board with the OWS. But at this point in the game, I admire them for putting the fear of god into the conservatives the past couple days...apparently all it takes is some 13 year old looking girl in a ridiculous green frog hat to do so. I hope their momentum lasts.

/Schadenfreude.

Having been corrected on this point several times, I can assure you that it's not a frog. The hat represents the dog costume worn by the robot Gir in Invader Zim.

379 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:53:57pm

re: #375 boxhead

Oh lord, how many bands like Arrow did I fill in KBs for.

At the time, I bet I would love to have played with them. Gorgeous guitars, and strong tenor. Nice. Do you remember A.D.?

Kerry Livgren's band after Kansas.

Arrow reminds me of them, somewhat.

380 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:54:52pm

re: #378 SanFranciscoZionist

Lol I orignally said it was a green bear. So "frog" is doing well.

< --- old

381 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:55:19pm

re: #378 SanFranciscoZionist

Having been corrected on this point several times, I can assure you that it's not a frog. The hat represents the dog costume worn by the robot Gir in Invader Zim.

Love that show... LOL

Image: robot_gir.jpg

382 boxhead  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:59:11pm

re: #379 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh lord, how many bands like Arrow did I fill in KBs for.

At the time, I bet I would love to have played with them. Gorgeous guitars, and strong tenor. Nice. Do you remember A.D.?

Kerry Livgren's band after Kansas.

Arrow reminds me of them, somewhat.

My brother wrote and sang that song. They had a couple of albums worth. But, marriages of band members and costs of life ended something I thought was special.

I was/am a big Kansas fan. Loved their initial Christian stuff. Did not know of a A.D.

383 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 11:59:39pm

re: #377 boxhead

Then you are on board. You are just waiting for when it is cool to put the hat on... :)

Yeah see, I don't know about that.

If they get their act together, I might put on the hat with them, true. But from where I sit, it's not necessary to join a group for that, because conservatives are alread packed to the gills with their own self-generated fears.

On a personal level, I am having fun watching them run around yelling "commie pinko" because of a chick in a green hat with ears, though, must admit.

384 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:03:18am

re: #383 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah see, I don't know about that.

If they get their act together, I might put on the hat with them, true. But from where I sit, it's not necessary to join a group for that, because conservatives are alread packed to the gills with their own self-generated fears.

On a personal level, I am having fun watching them run around yelling "commie pinko" because of a chick in a green hat with ears, though, must admit.

Bandwagon jumper... :)

//

385 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:04:21am

re: #379 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My brother, Duane posted a few other songs under the youtube channel duanepc1.

here is more rocking one...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itaj_CmXkHU

387 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:08:40am

re: #385 boxhead

My brother, Duane posted a few other songs under the youtube channel duanepc1.

This is another good one... Masquerade

388 laZardo  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:09:21am

Gotta head to bed. Nightyall.

389 freetoken  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:09:23am

re: #362 000G

Some hazed, feverish fantasies about "free banking" (the equivalent of the "free market" myth projected onto banking, see also wildcat banking).

FREE THE WEED BANKNOTES!!

390 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:11:48am

re: #382 boxhead

My brother wrote and sang that song. They had a couple of albums worth. But, marriages of band members and costs of life ended something I thought was special.

I was/am a big Kansas fan. Loved their initial Christian stuff. Did not know of a A.D.

Yeah, A.D. is pretty obscure unless one is a prog-head or Kansas head, or both.

They were doing some stuff with tech and KBs that almost approximated Rush, imo, but again one had to be in the millieu to know about them.

Even today after a long trail out of Christian Zionist New Apostolic Refomation antiabortion antigay Keynsian economic Reaganism, I still enjoy "All Creation Sings" (1985)

Wish I could find the studio version, which is much better. :(

392 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:17:47am

re: #384 boxhead

Bandwagon jumper... :)

//

Lol thing is, if some rightwinger ever does label me that?.. I won't ever care. I already know what it would take for someone of my demographics to be thought of as anything otherwise, by them....btdt.

393 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:21:14am

re: #390 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, A.D. is pretty obscure unless one is a prog-head or Kansas head, or both.

They were doing some stuff with tech and KBs that almost approximated Rush, imo, but again one had to be in the millieu to know about them.

Even today after a long trail out of Christian Zionist New Apostolic Refomation antiabortion antigay Keynsian economic Reaganism, I still enjoy "All Creation Sings" (1985)

[Video]Wish I could find the studio version, which is much better. :(

good sound.... I can hear the Kansas in it...

394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:21:43am

re: #387 boxhead

Charismatic, I'm guessing?

Those are the only churches that would have allowed Christian Rock in their sanctuaries in the mid 80s.

395 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:23:16am

re: #393 boxhead

I am loving Duane and his recorder.

Hot band! Nice sound.

396 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:25:49am

re: #394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Charismatic, I'm guessing?

Those are the only churches that would have allowed Christian Rock in their sanctuaries in the mid 80s.

yeah.... In SoCal there were a few Christian Churches that embraced the youth movement. The one they played at, Rolling Hills Covenant, the one we were both going to, Harbor Christian Center, and the big one was Calvary Chapel.

397 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:26:31am

sigh... 18 minute compiles and copypasta errors

398 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:30:57am

re: #396 boxhead

Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa...heart of Maranatha Village.

People are all freaking out about "C. Peter Wagner"...my father probably took courses with fucking "C. Peter Wagner" at Fuller.

When I was growing up, beginning of the semester we'd go to Christian Discount Bookstore in frickin Bell, or wherever it was off the 605, and then to Maranatha Village to get all manner of Word and Light albums.

I remember when "Christian Rock" was making big waves, due to Calvary Chapel/Maranatha Village. I'm pretty ambivalent about it on a personal level, but A.D. allowed me to keep a channel open to Kansas, which allowed a channel to the rest of prog.

To me, it was all the same, anyway, since it was all classical and all Bach. When you're 14, it's hard to apply your parent's social hysteria to the music they're making you take lessons to learn, when you see it popping up in the culture all around you. Special times.

399 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:31:17am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't really give crap about OWS one way or another, frankly. Bored/not interested. Still, I do find it funny how people fall for a single incident with a demonstrably inadequate person who has not been proven to be representative of the people taking part in the demonstrations. It's hardly a ground for an "I told you so".

400 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:34:24am

Little contemplation:

The rising resentment against banks worries me. Where I live, over the last 1-2 years there have been several paint attacks on banks. Small banks, mind you. Credit unions. They do not dare go and attack the local branches of, say, Deutsche Bank or any of the other giants.

401 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:34:29am

re: #398 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin


I went to the one near Alpine Village in Torrance/Harbor Gateway. This was my early 20's. A lot of positive energy back then... I wonder if I went back if they would be all political and stuff...

402 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:36:12am

re: #374 000G

I am sure you are familiar with Sinner's Crossroads, right? You got any of their premiums?

No answer? Oh well...

403 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:36:48am

re: #399 Sergey Romanov

I don't really give crap about OWS one way or another, frankly. Bored/not interested. Still, I do find it funny how people fall for a single incident with a demonstrably inadequate person who has not been proven to be representative of the people taking part in the demonstrations. It's hardly a ground for an "I told you so".

Bonnie Raitt sang it best, I think. This cover band doesn't do so bad.

404 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:37:20am

re: #400 000G

Little contemplation:

The resentment against banks worries me. Where I live, over the last 1-2 years they have been several paint attacks at banks. Small banks, mind you. Credit unions. They do not dare go and attack the local branches of, say, Deutsche Bank or any of the giants.

Actions like those serve no positive purpose.

405 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:38:02am

re: #402 000G

No answer? Oh well...

I am not familiar with that program. :(

406 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:38:40am

re: #405 boxhead

I am not familiar with that program. :(

[Link: wfmu.org...]

407 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:40:00am

re: #406 000G

[Link: wfmu.org...]

wow... I should tell my brother to send his stuff.... very cool..

408 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:41:56am

re: #401 boxhead

I went to the one near Alpine Village in Torrance/Harbor Gateway. This was my early 20's. A lot of positive energy back then... I wonder if I went back if they would be all political and stuff...

Oh dear, the stories I can tell in SoCA and elsewhere. It's hard because there were so few Blacks in the scene at the time, it gets close to identifying information, so I don't talk about it much.

But some of the outfits I played with...precious, lonely hours, is probably the best way to describe it. I bet you remember Melodyland. If you could get on to the SoCA Charismatic circuit you could end up in the bona fide old school entertainment circuits. I bet your brother [he is hot] knows about it. This sort of thing still fascinates me to this day.

409 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:43:06am

RE:OP:
[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

I have asked John Jay, former prosecutor in Washington State and Atlas's resident expert in such matters, to examine the substantial evidence presented in the initial investigation of death of Fatima Abdallah.

Etc.

And here she quotes Spencer's "member of the SIOA board" without comment: [Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

410 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:43:10am

re: #406 000G

[Link: wfmu.org...]

i've been looking for a recording of a gospel tune that has a chorus with the words "something's wrong with the christians of today"

411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:46:47am

re: #400 000G

Little contemplation:

The rising resentment against banks worries me. Where I live, over the last 1-2 years there have been several paint attacks on banks. Small banks, mind you. Credit unions. They do not dare go and attack the local branches of, say, Deutsche Bank or any of the other giants.

The thing that I don't like is the potential for being "against the banks" quickly morphs into "against the ..."

I've been waiting for it, actually somewhat surprised that I've seen only one instance of it. I keep expecting it to come, though. That has not subsided.

412 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:48:13am

re: #410 engineer dog

i've been looking for a recording of a gospel tune that has a chorus with the words "something's wrong with the christians of today"

Acoustic/folk, Christian rock, or Black Gospel style?

Sounds to me like the first one but that's just a guess.

413 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:52:03am

re: #412 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Acoustic/folk, Christian rock, or Black Gospel style?

Sounds to me like the first one but that's just a guess.

ummm kind of classic straight arrow white gospel, a capella

414 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:52:46am

re: #408 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh dear, the stories I can tell in SoCA and elsewhere. It's hard because there were so few Blacks in the scene at the time, it gets close to identifying information, so I don't talk about it much.

But some of the outfits I played with...precious, lonely hours, is probably the best way to describe it. I bet you remember Melodyland. If you could get on to the SoCA Charismatic circuit you could end up in the bona fide old school entertainment circuits. I bet your brother [he is hot] knows about it. This sort of thing still fascinates me to this day.

He probably has heard of Melodyland. The band, unfortunately, could not put the time in since they were all late 20s early 30s, married, kids, and needed to focus on careers. And new wives tend to not like their husbands spending so much time playing rock and roll with the boys... :)

My brother still does music at his church, but it could have been more, IMO.

415 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:56:01am

re: #410 engineer dog

i've been looking for a recording of a gospel tune that has a chorus with the words "something's wrong with the christians of today"

Try writing a song with those lyrics to the tune of Buffalo Springfield's For What Its Worth.

416 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:58:22am

re: #415 boxhead

Try writing a song with those lyrics to the tune of Buffalo Springfield For What Its Worth.

[Video]

here's me singing a song i wrote

[Link: jazzincunabula.blogspot.com...]

417 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:59:42am

lol, listening to some OWS dude ranting and praising Bob Avakian

418 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:01:37am

re: #416 engineer dog

here's me singing a song i wrote

[Link: jazzincunabula.blogspot.com...]

Very nice.... and you do look like and engineer... lol

419 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:02:08am

re: #414 boxhead

Yeah, lots of men's talents are squashed by traditional whatever. I think there are fewer alternatives for women in that boat, though not by that much. I see those limitaions with my roommate all the time. It's sad - doesn't have to be that way. Glad Duane is still on with the music in church. That's actually rare. Most men don't have the nerve.

420 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:06:00am

re: #415 boxhead

Try writing a song with those lyrics to the tune of Buffalo Springfield's For What Its Worth.

[Video]

There's something wrong with Christians today
What it is I can't clearly say
There's a preacher over there preaching hate
Telling me who we can and cannot mate.

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

/ E - A - / / / / E D A C /

421 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:06:50am

re: #417 000G

Is BA a Stalinist?

422 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:07:38am

re: #420 boxhead

There's something wrong with Christians today
What it is I can't clearly say
There's a preacher over there preaching hate
Telling me who we can and cannot mate.

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

/ E - A - / / / E D A C /

Um. Compared to the Christians of previous centuries, today's are angels.

423 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:07:48am

re: #419 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, lots of men's talents are squashed by traditional whatever. I think there are fewer alternatives for women in that boat, though not by that much. I see those limitaions with my roommate all the time. It's sad - doesn't have to be that way. Glad Duane is still on with the music in church. That's actually rare. Most men don't have the nerve.

His wife is also a gifted singer and the son can sing and play recorder, piano, and not sure what else.. :) I think they still run the music for their church..

424 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:07:57am

re: #421 Sergey Romanov

Is BA a Stalinist?

Maoist, I believe: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

425 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:08:51am

re: #422 Sergey Romanov

Um. Compared to the Christians of previous centuries, today's are angels.

I know.. I was just trying to help engineer dog.. :)

426 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:10:38am

re: #417 000G

lol, listening to some OWS dude ranting and praising Bob Avakian

That is the problem with Left protests... EVERYONE is invited... sheesh..

427 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:13:32am

re: #421 Sergey Romanov

Is BA a Stalinist?

No, no, no. Bob Avakian is the creator of the New Synthesis, by Bob Avakian. You know how all those times communism didn't work? That's because the people who tried to implement it didn't have the New Synthesis, by Bob Avakian.

That's Ah-VAY-kee-inn, by the way, not Ah-VAH-kee-in.

428 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:14:56am

re: #426 boxhead

That is the problem with Left protests... EVERYONE is invited... sheesh..

And trust me, if you are having a protest, Bob Avakian's followers, all twenty of them, will be there. With copies of the New Synthesis. And a big banner.

429 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:15:00am

re: #423 boxhead

His wife is also a gifted singer and the son can sing and play recorder, piano, and not sure what else.. :) I think they still run the music for their church..

Ah.

Joint music ministry...I was almost in one of those, myself. I can think of worse things.

430 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:15:16am

re: #427 SanFranciscoZionist

For me it's Ah-vah-KYAN :P

(Famous Armenian surname.)

431 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:16:33am

re: #416 engineer dog

here's me singing a song i wrote

[Link: jazzincunabula.blogspot.com...]

Handsome!

432 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:17:16am

re: #427 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that's exactly what the guy sounded like. A veritable lollercoaster.

433 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:17:40am

re: #421 Sergey Romanov

Is BA a Stalinist?

Lol aren't they all?

434 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:17:58am

re: #433 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No.

435 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:19:32am

re: #434 Sergey Romanov

No.

I had a kindergarten teacher named Miss Tavian. Pronounced Miss TAY-vian.

I'm certain she must have been a Stalinist! She was a teacher and teachers are in unions!

/

436 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:19:58am

re: #428 SanFranciscoZionist

And trust me, if you are having a protest, Bob Avakian's followers, all twenty of them, will be there. With copies of the New Synthesis. And a big banner.

Maybe I can get the Jehovah Witness folks that keep knocking on my door to join then and have a merry ole time! They have books too.

437 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:20:19am

re: #430 Sergey Romanov

For me it's Ah-vah-kyan :P

(Famous Armenian surname.)

Well, a guy who knew his father says they pronounce it like that. Who am I to say?

Bob Avakian has led the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA, since he founded the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA, in 1975.

They have a newspaper. It's called "Revolution". Because Bob Avakian's a creative man.

He is the author many books, most recently

Away With All Gods! Unchaining the Mind and Radically Changing the World (2008)

and

Basics from the Talks and Writings of Bob Avakian (2011)

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:27:29am

And if you mention him to anyone who is involved in any way with left-wing street-level politics in the Bay Area, they will either become infuriated (if they are from a rival Communist group), laugh like hyenas, or get a vague look in their eye and mutter "Oh God. THOSE people."

439 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:29:09am

re: #318 ggt

accept that it is a jungle, not a garden and take down the fences?

Ask the libbercons, they're invested in that platform, not me. But I think they would probably devise a much different metaphor.

440 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:30:20am

re: #437 SanFranciscoZionist

Away With All Gods! Unchaining the Mind and Radically Changing the World (2008)

and

Basics from the Talks and Writings of Bob Avakian (2011)

Years ago, when I was reading through various materials related to Biblical contradictions (a favorite atheist pastime //), I read some materials by Dennis McKinsey. Prometheus Books actually published his "Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy", which was probably one of the most error-ridden books they ever published. Later I learned that McKinsey's other favorite pastime was writing walls of text in Stalin's defense. Oh well.

441 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:31:35am

re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist

And if you mention him to anyone who is involved in any way with left-wing street-level politics in the Bay Area, they will either become infuriated (if they are from a rival Communist group), laugh like hyenas, or get a vague look in their eye and mutter "Oh God. THOSE people."

Or just not have any idea who one is talking about at all.

Reminds me of the rwnj obsession with

SAUL ALINSKY!!! !!! !!!

I'd never even heard of stupid

SAUL ALINSKY!!! !!! !!!

until some deranged #tcot a-hole called himself "outing" me to #tcot as one. 9_9

442 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:31:47am

re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist

Guy was SHOUTING, too.

When the interviewer told him that the didn't want his talking points but his actual thoughts on things, guy got irritated and tried to snark at the interviewer for being too old school and liking Jimi Hendrix.

Loon.

443 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:32:44am

re: #442 000G

[Link: wfmu.org...]

Forward to 37:40

444 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:33:02am

re: #439 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ask the libbercons, they're invested in that platform, not me. But I think they would probably devise a much different metaphor.

I have always held that borders have meaning. A Country's identity depends on this.

445 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:34:17am

re: #441 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Or just not have any idea who one is talking about at all.

Reminds me of the rwnj obsession with

I'd never even heard of stupid

until some deranged #tcot a-hole called himself "outing" me to #tcot as one. 9_9

Now, Alinsky I'd never heard of either until his adoption by the right.

(Although I did see a book by him at the 'three bucks for a grocery bag full' sale at my local library recently).

I suppose there are many people who have never the hell heard of Avakian. He just showed up in my life because his people like to show up any time the anti-Israel crowd is demoing. (And any time there's an anti-war event. And any time there's a big protest of any sort, really.)

446 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:34:31am

re: #442 000G

Guy was SHOUTING, too.

When the interviewer told him that the didn't want his talking points but his actual thoughts on things, guy got irritated and tried to snark at the interviewer for being too old school and liking Jimi Hendrix.

Loon.

I like Jimi. I tend to not trust folks who don't... lol

447 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:34:41am

re: #439 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Those people only advocate open borders in concert with ending all social programs.

448 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:37:34am

Heh, through link-hopping found this gem on a German commie site about the three Moscow show trials:

1. The defendants testified against one another.

2. The defendants admitted their guilt.

3. The defendants didn't agree with every point and corrected or modified many showing it was not choreographed or rehearsed.

4. The defendants provided additional unexpected information not in the indictment.

5. Many of the defendants had spied for the Czar or the secret police prior to the revolution.

6. Most of the defendants had opposed Lenin and Stalin on many points back to the days of the revolution.

7. Those in the courtroom had no doubt the defendants were guilty.

8. Witnesses to the trial said they saw no evidence of torture or forced testimony.

9. There is no reason for them to admit guilt thinking they would be pardoned judging by prior trial results.

10. Some defendants said they were not tortured but they did torture their interrogators

11. Foreign engineers and specialists write that they themselves witnessed suspicious decisions and sabotage

Well, let's forget the little fact that there are, in fact, credible testimonies about torture and coercion used during the trials, as well as the fact that all of the temporarily surviving defendants (those sentenced to prison) did, in fact, talk about their testimonies being coerced, which is why all of them were secretly killed one way or another.

449 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:44:14am

When your pubic hair's on fire something's wrong
When you think you're the Messiah something's wrong
When you mistake a plane for Venus something's wrong
When your girlfriend's got a penis
Something's wrong...
Something's wrong...

interesting, but nah that's not it...

450 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:46:26am

re: #449 engineer dog

When your pubic hair's on fire something's wrong
When you think you're the Messiah something's wrong
When you mistake a plane for Venus something's wrong
When your girlfriend's got a penis
Something's wrong...
Something's wrong...

interesting, but nah that's not it...

451 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:47:12am

re: #449 engineer dog

lol

452 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:49:43am

hmm
[Link: photobucket.com...]

453 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:49:47am

lol, I see Andrew Breitbart called into some internet radio show the stalkers have to talk about LGF and OWS…

454 freetoken  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:50:43am

re: #453 000G

linky?

455 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:52:59am

re: #454 freetoken

I dunno if linkage is approved here. There are only so many LGF stalker sites out there, you can find it easily.

456 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:56:45am

re: #453 000G

Breitbart is a person without honor...

457 freetoken  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:56:57am

re: #455 000G

There are more stalker sites than I care to know.

458 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:57:34am

re: #457 freetoken

Make a post with "Show email" option activated and I 'll hook you up.

lol @ Breitbart rambling about why his Civil War fantasies were justified.

459 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:59:29am

Btw, "jazzy & his magical ponytail" is even lamer and contrived when spoken rather than typed.

460 boxhead  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:00:24am

nite all... fun times...

461 freetoken  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:01:20am

re: #458 000G

I believe you. If you think it might be of interest to Charles you could send him the link.

462 researchok  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:13:27am

Morning, all

463 researchok  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:15:46am

re: #452 Sergey Romanov

hmm
[Link: photobucket.com...]

Get help.
//

Yeah, I laughed.

464 freetoken  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:24:24am

PPM:

465 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:24:43am

Morning Honcos.

466 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:01:17am

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

That does not follow, thankfully. At the very least, despite its nutcases, the GOP can and should make use of the Tea Party to counter these sorts of protests. We need our own rallies, where conservatives remind people of how those sorts of far=left policies have always ended in disaster. People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

"We make money the old fashioned way: through credit default swap markets!"

America: In banksters we trust

467 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:02:50am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Suck it up, moonbats. It's not like I didn;t tell you that the protests were inititiated by the antisemites at adbusters, Anon, ANSWER, and the Marxists from World Workers Party, Socialist Alternative, Party for Socialism and Revolution, etc. You were warned and this is what you decided to support. Fuck you, Fuck your protests, and fuck your ignorant rabid instincts that led you to support this bullshit beyond all reason and common sense.

MARK IT ZERO

468 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:09:44am

Perez, who had a green light, was turning left when Wisnesky ran a red light and collided with the SUV, according to the patrol. Wisnesky was thrown from the motorcycle and into the rear seat of the SUV, which then flipped onto its side.

[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

This would prolly suck.

469 Aye Pod  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:10:59am

re: #467 WindUpBird

Riddlled with the socialism!

470 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:24:03am

Morning Cupcakes!

471 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:24:50am

re: #469 Jimmah

Killgore has a perfectly good point. It is Adbusters who put out the call for OWS. And Adbusters really did launch a kludgy, stupid, "Too many Jews" campaign during the Iraq war. It really, really actually infuriates me that with Bush and Cheney at the helm Adbusters decided that talking about how many Jews there were in the administration made any sort of sense. Iraq was a war that Bush wanted, that Cheney wanted, and that they made happen because of what they believed. It was not because there were too many Jews in the administration.

This means it'd be very difficult for someone like me to go to a protest sponsored by Adbusters. Not just because I'm Jewish, but because of the idiocy of that attack. And because they were started by guys with close ties to ANSWER.

However, the issue that the people out there are protesting, of how unfair it is that the banks, which precipitated the financial crisis, were basically rewarded rather than punished, is a very real one. For anyone who's not familiar with Adbuster's history, I don't blame that at all for showing up.

But I really don't know how effective this protest is at doing anything in particular. Most of the US already supports higher taxes on the rich, more regulation on banks, etc. etc. The will is there. I'm not sure how these protests will transform that will into actual political action.

I think what we really need is voting drives, and ID drives in those states with the new, restrictive laws. I think we need campaigning for the various Democratic senators who are up for re-election or replacing retiring ones.

I do think that the goals of Adbusters and ANSWER are revolutionary ones, because they flat-out say so. Adbusters really are anti-capitalist and pro-anarchist.

And they really are the ones who called for OWS.

472 Aye Pod  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:45:32am

re: #471 Obdicut

I think - as you just demonsterated - there are better ways of expressing those points than yelling 'moonbat' and trying to scare us all with the 'S' word, which was my main issue with his post.

However, the issue that the people out there are protesting, of how unfair it is that the banks, which precipitated the financial crisis, were basically rewarded rather than punished, is a very real one. For anyone who's not familiar with Adbuster's history, I don't blame that at all for showing up.

Yep - as for the main body of protesters it looks like a lot of people who are feeling ripped off and are angry at those they feel are responsible.

473 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:54:00am
474 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:56:42am

Christ, another Bob Avakian groupie in that Clay Pigeon podcast (1:27:25 in)

lol @ Andrew Breitbart saying "peer to peer review" when trying to rip into the scientific community in a spectacularly lame way

475 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:59:05am

Bad Lip Reading; Michelle Bachmann:

"Where I'm from mama gets a what-what"

476 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:03:20am

TAMPA — It was early in the school day, and the 16-year-old student had just gone to grab something from her locker.

But on her way back to class, another student followed her. As they passed a boy's restroom, police say, he pushed her inside and raped her.

Then he returned to class. The girl, shaken and crying, found Chamberlain High School's police resource officer.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

477 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:06:17am

re: #476 Cannadian Club Akbar

Both are under 18
Due to the nature of the crime, I didn't expect their names to be published

478 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:07:24am

re: #477 sattv4u2

Both are under 18
Due to the nature of the crime, I didn't expect their names to be published

His name was published, hers wasn't.

479 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:11:06am

re: #478 Cannadian Club Akbar

His name was published, hers wasn't.

yup,, still wiping sleep from my eyes

the other names are other students interviewed

480 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:12:22am

Another Fullerton cop. It might be time to disband the entire department and start over:

Federal Judge Criticizes Lack of Response of California Police Department To Allegations of Sexual Abuse By Officer
[Link: jonathanturley.org...]

U.S. District Judge Andrew J. Guilford verbally lashed the Fullerton Police Department in its handing of allegation by sexual misconduct of an officer, calling the police department actions as “shocking” in its failure to take serious steps to preserve and act on evidence.

Officer Albert Rincon is accused of a pattern of detaining women and using the detention to make sexual propositions or even grope women. Notably, he not only routinely failed to call for a female officer for pat-down, as required “whenever practical” under city policy, but actively shut off his digital audio recorder....
....
Nevertheless, the Fullerton district attorney found the allegations without proof beyond a reasonable doubt despite seven women alleging abuse. Prosecutors insisted that there was evidence that the women had spoken with each other about their allegations. However, Guilford called the city’s handling of the situation “weak” and “shocking” and noted that the officer was just required to go through pat-down training.

Original OC Weekly story:
[Link: blogs.ocweekly.com...]

481 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:12:52am

re: #471 Obdicut

If you're going to any demonstration you are going to rub shoulders with Commies, KKK, union thugs, gun nuts, Black Bloc, neo-Confederates, kids and people off their meds. Where are the Center Left and Center Right? At the mall, packing cheese-fries.

482 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:17:29am

re: #480 RogueOne

and noted that the officer was just required to go through pat-down training.

So the cop thats doing the pat downs has to go practice pat downs!!


Wait , WHA!?!?
///

483 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:18:20am

re: #481 Decatur Deb

Free Speech for all....

484 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:18:26am

re: #471 Obdicut

Iraq was a war that Bush wanted, that Cheney wanted, and that they made happen because of what they believed. It was not because there were too many Jews in the administration.

That's still a somewhat significant contingent in the anti-imperialist left that is mirrored in the paleo-conservative right: attacking the neo-conservatives for being "too jewish".

485 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:19:02am

re: #483 RogueOne

Free Speech for all...

Preesisly.

486 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:19:11am

re: #482 sattv4u2

and noted that the officer was just required to go through pat-down training.

So the cop thats doing the pat downs has to go practice pat downs!!

Wait , WHA!?!?
///

I think that passes the irony test. They're trying to teach him how to grope properly.

487 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:19:23am

The federal government has found a new weapon in its war on marijuana — the tax man.

[Link: www.myfoxny.com...]

Hey ,, if it was good enough to get Al Capone ,,,

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:19:24am

re: #476 Cannadian Club Akbar

That poor girl. I'm surprised that things like that don't happen more often. Or maybe they do and the girls are afraid to report it.

Many high school campuses are gigantic and at times of the day are fairly deserted.

489 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:19:25am

re: #481 Decatur Deb

If you're going to any demonstration you are going to rub shoulders with Commies, KKK, union thugs, gun nuts, Black Bloc, neo-Confederates, kids and people off their meds. Where are the Center Left and Center Right? At the mall, packing cheese-fries.

But atleast they are keeping the economy moving, if not their legs or bowels.

/dripping

490 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:20:44am

re: #489 wozzablog

But atleast they are keeping the economy moving, if not their legs or bowels.

Walking past a mall food court, I can literally hear arteries hardening!

491 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:21:06am

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My high skool had a North and a South campus. 2700 brats.

492 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:23:19am

re: #491 Cannadian Club Akbar

My high skool had a North and a South campus. 2700 brats.

heh,,,, my sons entire school, grades K-12 only has 1100

My high school (9-12) had less than 400

493 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:24:17am

re: #492 sattv4u2

heh,,, my sons entire school, grades K-12 only has 1100

My high school (9-12) had less than 400

Things sure have changed here on Walton's Mountain.
///

494 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:24:38am

re: #484 000G

That's still a somewhat significant contingent in the anti-imperialist left that is mirrored in the paleo-conservative right: attacking the neo-conservatives for being "too jewish".

Some of that is simple anti-Semitism and some is the result of clumsy Israeli PR. It's showing up again, with GOP/Likud anti-Obama crap. Good ol boys in Alabama who don't know if they've ever met a Jew discuss it in the barber shop, and they don't like it.

495 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:25:05am

re: #493 Cannadian Club Akbar

Things sure have changed here on Walton's Mountain.
///

What are you, clairvoyant?
Thats part of the name of my sons school

[Link: gwa.com...]

496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:25:28am

re: #491 Cannadian Club Akbar

Me and a girl got consensually busy during skool one day at skool. Aaah, the prop room in the theater. 2,000 students, three acre campus, 15 buildings.

497 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:27:40am

re: #496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Me and a girl got consensually busy during skool one day at skool. Aaah, the prop room in the theater. 2,000 students, three acre campus, 15 buildings.

Well that makes role playing easier.:)

498 freetoken  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:28:23am

re: #489 wozzablog

/dripping

So were the fries.

499 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:28:34am

re: #490 sattv4u2

Walking past a mall food court, I can literally hear arteries hardening!

Why are you cruising the mall?

500 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:28:53am

re: #496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Me and a girl got consensually busy during skool one day at skool. Aaah, the prop room in the theater. 2,000 students, three acre campus, 15 buildings.

I blame the Drama teacher--never should have staged Oh Calcutta.

501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:29:31am

re: #500 Decatur Deb

I blame the Drama teacher--never should have staged Oh Calcutta.

Obscure. Nice.

502 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:31:00am

re: #499 RogueOne

Why are you cruising the mall?

Old people hang out at the mall waiting for free samples from Hickory Farms.

503 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:31:11am

now for something completely different,

Scalia and Ginsberg ride an elephant:
Image: elephant.jpg,q1228508660.pagespeed.ce.1fxVUZrHpO.jpg

504 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:32:24am

re: #503 RogueOne

Well, you don't see that everyday.

505 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:34:13am

re: #502 Cannadian Club Akbar

Old people hang out at the mall waiting for free samples from Hickory Farms.

Asked my son when he was 16 "Why do you hang out at the Mall? It's all clothes and cosmetics?"

Answer: "Why do lions hang at the watering hole?"

AAKK--Gotta split. BB(Much)L

506 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:35:36am
507 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:36:40am

re: #499 RogueOne

Why are you cruising the mall?

FBV's High Schools prop room was occupied!!
//

508 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:36:50am

re: #480 RogueOne

That story broke Friday, Yesterday this happened:

Fullerton seeks to fire police officer who allegedly groped women
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

I guess someone got the chance to think about it over the weekend.

509 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:38:25am

Trying to watch the news. NBC covering the Michael Jackson trial. Really? Turned to CNN. Rick Perry, then fuckin' zombies.

The Onion needs to get a TV channel.

510 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:38:55am

re: #508 RogueOne

No biggie. Now he can apply to work for the TSA.
///

511 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:39:58am

re: #510 Cannadian Club Akbar

No biggie. Now he can apply to work for be lead trainer for the TSA.
///

(was going to say head trainer ,, but ,, naahhhh)

512 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:41:21am

re: #509 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to watch the news. NBC covering the Michael Jackson trial. Really? Turned to CNN. Rick Perry, then fuckin' zombies.

The Onion needs to get a TV channel.

You want the Brooke Alvarez? - you can't handle the Brooke Alvarez.

513 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:41:55am

re: #503 RogueOne

Poor elephant. Doesn't know whether to turn left or right.

514 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:42:13am

This shooting was big news last year. A raid "made for tv" ended with a dead 7yr old girl. They finally came out with charges:

Detroit police officer charged in shooting death of Aiyana Stanley-Jones, 7, during raid
[Link: www.freep.com...]

Detroit Police Officer Joseph Weekley has been arraigned on an indictment on charges of involuntary manslaughter and careless and reckless discharge of a firearm causing death in the May 2010 slaying of Aiyana Stanley-Jones during a raid.

Also charged in an indictment is Allison Howard, 42, of Boston. She is charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. Wayne County prosecutors said Howard was a photographer with “The First 48,” which had a crew following the Special Response Team the night of the raid.

515 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:42:44am

And on that note

Son is off to school

I'm off to nap

516 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:43:49am

re: #509 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

517 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:44:12am

re: #515 sattv4u2

And on that note

Son is off to school

I'm off to nap

Nap? Already? Don't forget to take your fiber.

518 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:57:50am
On Wednesday morning, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences announced that Daniel Shechtman of the Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa in Israel received this year's Nobel Prize for Chemistry.

[…]

His research "fundamentally altered how chemists conceive of solid matter," the jury said.

"In quasicrystals, we find the fascinating mosaics of the Arabic world reproduced at the level of atoms: regular patterns that never repeat themselves," the jury added.

In all solid matter, atoms were believed to be packed inside crystals in symmetrical patterns that were periodically repeated. For scientists, this repetition was required in order to obtain a crystal.

But Shechtman's work showed that atoms in crystal were packed in a pattern that could not be repeated. His discovery was extremely controversial, the jury said. In the course of defending his findings, he was asked to leave his research group, but his battle eventually forced scientists to reconsider their conception of the very nature of matter.

Following Shechtman's discovery, scientists have produced other kinds of quasicrystals in the lab and discovered naturally occurring quasicrystals in mineral samples from a Russian river. A Swedish company has also found quasicrystals in a certain form of steel, where the crystals reinforce the material like armor.

Scientists are currently experimenting with using quasicrystals in different products such as frying pans and diesel engines.

[…]

[Link: www.dw-world.de...]

519 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:06:21am

Pizza Delivery Driver Calls Cops On Customer Who Smoked Marijuana
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
I had a friend who worked for Papa John's as a manger and a customer called the cops on the driver who brought their pizza because they thought the guy was drunk.Turned out, he was.

520 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:11:04am

re: #519 Cannadian Club Akbar

If you can't trust the pizza guy to keep his mouth shut who can you trust?

521 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:11:05am

re: #519 Cannadian Club Akbar

That delivery dude broke the sacred bond between stoners and pizza delivery dudes.

Would he have reported the dude if he'd seen a beer lying around? Doubt it.

522 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:12:34am

re: #521 Obdicut

That delivery dude broke the sacred bond between stoners and pizza delivery dudes.

Would he have reported the dude if he'd seen a beer lying around? Doubt it.

The first rule of Pizza Delivery - you don't talk about Pizza Delivery........

523 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:12:46am

re: #521 Obdicut

When I was in Denver the pizza delivery guy also delivered weed. One stop shopping.

524 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:14:03am

re: #523 RogueOne

Denver, it's a helluva town.

525 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:14:16am

re: #521 Obdicut

We have some independent pizza places that deliver six packs.

526 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:14:51am

Catch you all later.

527 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:15:04am

re: #524 wozzablog

Denver, it's a helluva town.

Absolutely loved it there. The pizza guy was on a first name basis with my guys. He'd stop in and hang out. The pizza was always cold but no one really cared.

528 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:18:53am

Morning Lizardim. Indian summer is in full swing here in the wild north country - or should that be Native American summer? I get so behind on my PC expressions. Anyway, unseasonably warm for early October, but it looks like it isn't going to last, as a pending fall rainstorm is set to wash the heat away. And am I ever looking forward to getting back to the cool weather.

529 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:20:15am

re: #524 wozzablog

Denver, it's a helluva town.

I was stationed at Lowry Air Force Base in the early 80s. There was a soda machine full of beer at the dorm and you could call and have pizza and beer delivered. I also liked the drive-through liquor stores.

530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:20:24am

NewsCorp and the voice cast of the Simpsons are having some trouble. NewsCorp wants to increase profits and are asking the cast to take a pay cut.

The voice cast members make 8 million each per year.

NewsCorp makes billions on "The Simpsons".

I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for anyone in this story.

531 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:23:34am

re: #530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Tell ya what, NewsCorp and the voice cast can both give me their money, and then we'll all be happy.

532 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:23:56am

re: #530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

8 million a year per actor (4) is peanuts considering what other sit com actors have been paid. I mentioned this yesterday and am calling bullshit on the producers.

533 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:24:01am

re: #530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

NewsCorp and the voice cast of the Simpsons are having some trouble. NewsCorp wants to increase profits and are asking the cast to take a pay cut.

The voice cast members make 8 million each per year.

NewsCorp makes billions on "The Simpsons".

I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for anyone in this story.

That's too bad. Fortunately I never seen the Simpsons so I could give a rat's ass if they quit or not.

:)

534 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:30:17am

Poor hipsters. There's a rumor Japan just banned all fixies.

[Link: www.buyafixie.com...]

535 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:30:58am

re: #533 NJDhockeyfan

That's too bad. Fortunately I never seen the Simpsons so I could give a rat's ass if they quit or not.

:)

You've never seen the Simpsons? That's un-american! I smell a commie!

536 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:32:03am

re: #535 RogueOne

You've never seen the Simpsons? That's un-american! I smell a commie!

Cartoons? I prefer South Park.

537 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:32:49am

re: #534 Obdicut

Poor hipsters. There's a rumor Japan just banned all fixies.

[Link: www.buyafixie.com...]

The spot where I park my bike at work has three bike stands, one of which has been occupied by a nifty lime-green fixed gear for the past couple of weeks.

I'm considering chalking the tires. I don't think it's moved in all that time.

Fucking hipsters.

538 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:33:09am

Quotes finished and invoices out, time to hit the road. Enjoy the rest of the day folks!

539 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:33:15am

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Cartoons? I prefer South Park.

South Park rules! Simpsons is OK. Family Guy sucks.

540 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:37:45am

re: #539 Alouette

South Park rules! Simpsons is OK. Family Guy sucks.

I watched the first Family Guy when it started and I didn't laugh. I haven't watched it since.

541 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:38:12am

re: #534 Obdicut

Poor hipsters. There's a rumor Japan just banned all fixies.

[Link: www.buyafixie.com...]

Cause riding any kind of vehicle without brakes is teh bomb!
/

542 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:41:40am

re: #540 NJDhockeyfan

I watched the first Family Guy when it started and I didn't laugh. I haven't watched it since.

Family Guy did suck when it first came out. Was dropped by Fox. Either Cartoon Network or Comedy Central picked it up. It got better and is on Fox again. That show really pushes the envelope.

543 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:42:20am

re: #539 Alouette

South Park rules! Simpsons is OK. Family Guy sucks.

I like Family Guy and watch it more than I do the Simpsons. South Park is great. I really like cartoons that are geared toward adults (no, not Anime Porn).

I still think Rocky and Bullwinkle started the industry.

544 Stephen T.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:43:16am

re: #150 Jimmi the Grey

I'd like to point out that decaf in this day and age is just a tasty as regular coffee.

...and yet, it is just as equally pointless. What, you think I drink coffee for its flavor?

545 Aye Pod  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:46:06am

re: #535 RogueOne

You've never seen the Simpsons? That's un-american! I smell a commie!

Series 2-10 of the Simpsons contains some of the best comedy I've watched, cartoon or otherwise. I think South Park has maintained it's quality better over the years though.

546 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:51:36am

re: #539 Alouette

South Park rules! Simpsons is OK. Family Guy sucks.

All three are good.

547 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:51:45am

re: #545 Jimmah

Series 2-10 of the Simpsons contains some of the best comedy I've watched, cartoon or otherwise. I think South Park has maintained it's quality better over the years though.

"The Simpsons: Officially Not As Funny As It Used To Be"

(Viz magazine used that tag line for a while, maybe it still does?)

548 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:52:37am

WI Judge Declares that Individuals have no Fundamental Right to Own Cows, Drink Raw Milk

After being petitioned for clarification about his decision in a recent legal case involving individuals freedom to consume raw milk and own "shares" of dairy cows, Judge Patrick J. Fiedler vehemently declared that individuals "do not have a fundamental right to consume the foods of their choice," and essentially reiterated his state's position that raw milk is simply off limits.

...Wisconsin is among the most restrictive US states as far as raw milk is concerned. Raw milk sales to consumers are prohibited -- but private cow share agreements in which individuals purchase "shares" of their own cows, are exempted. However, due to the onslaught of raids in recent years against raw dairies, private raw milk buying clubs, and even raw milk cow share programs, the plaintiffs simply wanted to clarify Wisconsin's stance concerning these alternate forms of accessing raw milk.

And they got their answer. According to a recent report by The Complete Patient, Judge Fiedler believes that no individual has a "fundamental right" to consume any food without government permission.

...To summarize Judge Fiedler's response, which was obviously written in an arrogant and condescending tone, individuals have no fundamental right to own or use dairy cows, to consume the milk from their own cows, to board their cows off their own property, or even to produce and consume the foods of their own choice, period.

How fucking ridiculous. My aunt & uncle used to own a dairy cow and the milk tasted so much better than the stuff you get in the store.

549 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:53:38am

I don't watch cartoons on TV since I don't watch TV. Usually I simply download the new episodes in batches several times a year. SP though I am able to see at their site.

550 The Left  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:55:15am

re: #549 Sergey Romanov

I don't watch cartoons on TV since I don't watch TV. Usually I simply download the new episodes in batches several times a year. SP though I am able to see at their site.

We do that too. That is, we don't watch TV, so we have to download stuff. I love watching stuff in batches, and it's good for that.

551 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:55:50am

re: #548 NJDhockeyfan

WI Judge Declares that Individuals have no Fundamental Right to Own Cows, Drink Raw Milk

How fucking ridiculous. My aunt & uncle used to own a dairy cow and the milk tasted so much better than the stuff you get in the store.

Raw food nuttiness and hardcore libertarianism, together at last!

552 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:56:14am

re: #550 iceweasel

And no ads!

553 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:57:10am

re: #548 NJDhockeyfan

WI Judge Declares that Individuals have no Fundamental Right to Own Cows, Drink Raw Milk

How fucking ridiculous. My aunt & uncle used to own a dairy cow and the milk tasted so much better than the stuff you get in the store.

Which is fine for a person who actually owns a cow and can drink it directly; but selling raw, unpasteurized milk carries a significant element of risk. I'm hardly one for a nanny state, but sometimes a little regulation is a good thing.

554 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:58:38am

Meanwhile: Abramoff's book to be published by WND:

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

555 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:59:19am

Pat Robertson calls Romney an outstanding Christian (if any of you wondered if fundies will vote for him):

[Link: www.christianpost.com...]

556 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:59:28am

re: #553 thedopefishlives

Which is fine for a person who actually owns a cow and can drink it directly; but selling raw, unpasteurized milk carries a significant element of risk. I'm hardly one for a nanny state, but sometimes a little regulation is a good thing.

It's an interesting case - obviously there's a huge gray area between "guy owns cow, drinks milk from it" and "guy owns cow, sells raw milk to customers in his shop", which is filled with all kinds of interesting more-or-less-commercial arrangements.

One of these situations which calls for a Herman Cain 2-page bill!

557 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 5:59:58am

re: #554 Sergey Romanov

Meanwhile: Abramoff's book to be published by WND:

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

(Be sure to read the praise section.)

558 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:00:17am

What's the latest on the moronic protests in NYC and elsewhere?

559 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:00:28am

re: #542 Cannadian Club Akbar

Adult Swim on the Cartoon Network revived Family Guy.

One of the greatest lines of all time:

I'll be on the veranda since you're already on the cross
-Brian Griffin

560 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:01:09am

And Ann Coulter took part in some gay TV show. Wingnuts were not pleased: [Link: www.wnd.com...]

561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:03:16am

re: #548 NJDhockeyfan

"Bravest man in history? The first guy who drank milk. See that big hairy thing over there. I'm going to squeeze that thing hanging off of it and drink whatever comes out."
-Gallagher

562 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:04:09am

re: #553 thedopefishlives

Which is fine for a person who actually owns a cow and can drink it directly; but selling raw, unpasteurized milk carries a significant element of risk. I'm hardly one for a nanny state, but sometimes a little regulation is a good thing.

He says you cannot own a dairy cow and drink it's milk. This judge is a moron.

563 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:04:37am

re: #561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Bravest man in history? The first guy who drank milk. See that big hairy thing over there. I'm going to squeeze that thing hanging off of it and drink whatever comes out."
-Gallagher

Drunken fratcaveboys?

564 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:04:42am

re: #560 Sergey Romanov

And Ann Coulter took part in some gay TV show. Wingnuts were not pleased: [Link: www.wnd.com...]

From the "special offers" at the foot of the article:

Want to know what Scripture really says about sexual issues of all kinds? You'll want to read the No. 1 best-seller that holds nothing back in championing Bible truth and revealing your true, spectacular destiny that's more glorious than floating on clouds playing a harp forever. Get "Shocked by the Bible: The Most Astonishing Facts You've Never Been Told" autographed by the author!

More glorious than floating on clouds playing a harp forever? That can only mean one thing in my book, which starts with "s", and ends with "ex with twins".

565 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:05:14am

re: #561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Bravest man in history? The first guy who drank milk. See that big hairy thing over there. I'm going to squeeze that thing hanging off of it and drink whatever comes out."
-Gallagher

How dare you talk about Mom that way!

/

566 Aye Pod  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:05:37am

re: #547 iossarian

"The Simpsons: Officially Not As Funny As It Used To Be"

(Viz magazine used that tag line for a while, maybe it still does?)

Haven't seen Viz for like 20 years. "Top Tips" was always my favourite regular item:

Why waste money on expensive binoculars? Simply stand closer to the object you wish to observe

Dead moths make ideal handgliders for woodlice

567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:06:59am

Damn, Jon Stewart was right.

The Occupy Wall Street guys are indistinguishable from Bonnaroo.

568 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:08:47am

re: #562 NJDhockeyfan

He says you cannot own a dairy cow and drink it's milk. This judge is a moron.

If, as the conservative wisdom goes, there is no constitutional right to privacy, why should there be a constitutional right to drink cow's milk? Figures.

569 Aye Pod  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:09:08am

Got a new pair of speakers on ebay at a bargain price recently. Iceweasel was concerned at first about how they might look , but, she's actually quite impressed at the self-effacing way they blend in with the rest of the room...

Image: speaker.jpg

570 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:10:13am

re: #567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Damn, Jon Stewart was right.

The Occupy Wall Street guys are indistinguishable from Bonnaroo.

Rock on!!!
[Link: artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com...]

571 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:10:27am

re: #566 Jimmah

Haven't seen Viz for like 20 years. "Top Tips" was always my favourite regular item:

They once printed three top tips from the same guy in one issue:

"Bored at work? Place a bottle of vodka in your desk draw and take periodic sips from it throughout the day."

"Nervous about visiting the dentist? Simply down two double gins before you leave the house: this will settle your nerves."

"Having trouble sleeping? Try putting half a bottle of whiskey in your bedtime cup of warm milk to help you drop off."

572 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:10:32am

re: #567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Damn, Jon Stewart was right.

The Occupy Wall Street guys are indistinguishable from Bonnaroo.

HuffPo has instruction on how to help the protesters.

The left is totally supporting this.

573 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:11:29am

*sigh*

Yeah, totally, man.

574 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:14:15am

Obviously, if we vote Democratic ever again, it will instantly mean anarcho-syndicalism and THE END OF AMERICA, because several hundred people in New York with no established connection to the Democratic party have a somewhat unfocused view of their aims.

Whereas, voting Republican won't affect Roe vs. Wade, because that's "settled law".

575 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:15:28am

OK, one more Viz comment, because this is my favorite letter to the editor, ever:

"All roads lead to Rome, or so they say. Not the A47! I drove up it the other day, and where did I get to? Worksop."

576 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:16:43am

re: #574 iossarian

I blame Drudge for spreading the InfoWars meme:

Image: drudgeinforwarsows.jpg

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

577 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:17:25am

re: #561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Bravest man in history? The first guy who drank milk. See that big hairy thing over there. I'm going to squeeze that thing hanging off of it and drink whatever comes out."
-Gallagher

The first guy who ate a lobster. Also, after the first guy ate a lobster, the guy who discovered that lobsters have to be cooked while they're alive.

578 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:18:46am

re: #576 000G

I mean, it's the most obvious play from the right's point of view, so I don't blame them.

On the other hand, to anyone with a functioning brain, it's pretty obvious what's going on, and "what's going on" does not include any kind of policy influence exerted by the OWS people on the Democratic party.

579 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:19:03am

re: #574 iossarian

Obviously, if we vote Democratic ever again, it will instantly mean anarcho-syndicalism and THE END OF AMERICA, because several hundred people in New York with no established connection to the Democratic party have a somewhat unfocused view of their aims.

Whereas, voting Republican won't affect Roe vs. Wade, because that's "settled law".

Who said they were connected to the Democratic party? They are definiely filled with communist party members, anarchists, anti-Semites, supported by Democrat politicians, lefty celebrities, and moonbats. There is no reason to believe anyone is connected to the Democratic party!

580 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:19:06am

re: #577 Alouette

The first guy who ate a lobster. Also, after the first guy ate a lobster, the guy who discovered that lobsters have to be cooked while they're alive.

Esp. at this was a pre-historic, sabre-toothed lobster. //

581 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:20:03am

re: #548 NJDhockeyfan

WI Judge Declares that Individuals have no Fundamental Right to Own Cows, Drink Raw Milk

How fucking ridiculous. My aunt & uncle used to own a dairy cow and the milk tasted so much better than the stuff you get in the store.

Tell that to the kids that got seriously sick this spring, nearly dying, from raw milk brought to their school class room. These little whiners need to grow up before they kill someone with this.

582 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:20:36am

re: #579 NJDhockeyfan

Who said they were connected to the Democratic party? They are definiely filled with communist party members, anarchists, anti-Semites, supported by Democrat politicians, lefty celebrities, and moonbats. There is no reason to believe anyone is connected to the Democratic party!

I heard all of the above are top-rated on a lefty site.

583 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:23:26am

re: #562 NJDhockeyfan

He says you cannot own a dairy cow and drink it's milk. This judge is a moron.

He didn't say you couldn't. He said you don't have a fundamental right to own a cow and drink its milk. Which, you don't.

584 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:23:43am

re: #581 wlewisiii

Tell that to the kids that got seriously sick this spring, nearly dying, from raw milk brought to their school class room. These little whiners need to grow up before they kill someone with this.

So someone who owns their own cow and drinks the milk is equal to a school getting kids sick with bad milk?

I just don't know how my grandparents survived all those years getting whole milk delivered to their house.

585 Aye Pod  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:24:24am

re: #571 iossarian

They once printed three top tips from the same guy in one issue:

"Bored at work? Place a bottle of vodka in your desk draw and take periodic sips from it throughout the day."

"Nervous about visiting the dentist? Simply down two double gins before you leave the house: this will settle your nerves."

"Having trouble sleeping? Try putting half a bottle of whiskey in your bedtime cup of warm milk to help you drop off."

LOL Some more:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

586 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:24:34am

re: #579 NJDhockeyfan

Who said they were connected to the Democratic party? They are definiely filled with communist party members, anarchists, anti-Semites, supported by Democrat politicians, lefty celebrities, and moonbats. There is no reason to believe anyone is connected to the Democratic party!

OK, spell it out for me. Let's say there are two options in the forthcoming elections: increased Republican control of government, or increased Democratic control.

Which would result in a better outcome, and why?

I contend that the loss of abortion rights, lack of support for the civil rights of minorities, and deregulation of business that would occur under the Republicans would be a bad thing. It would appear that you disagree, but I'd like to have the details.

587 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:25:03am

re: #582 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I heard all of the above are top-rated on a lefty site.

Like the Democrat politicians? I agree with you.

588 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:26:56am

re: #587 NJDhockeyfan

Who are the Democratic politicians who are supporting Occupy Wall Street?

589 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:26:57am

re: #587 NJDhockeyfan

Dude. No problem with crapping on OWS or whatever. But once you start using wingnut lingo like "Democrat" instead of "Democratic"...

590 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:27:28am

re: #587 NJDhockeyfan

Like the Democrat politicians? I agree with you.

Whatever that was supposed to mean.

591 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:27:55am

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Occupy Wall Street is in my mind at best the left's Tea Party, but likely with less staying power. It is a movement with nutcases and fanatics at its core and they have always been there. Such a movement is going to end up in trouble, especially nowadays, when such facts are brought to light swiftly.

Awww Jesus H. Fuckin' Christ. The tea party platform was "We are getting taxed to much by this president" after he gave them (them that work) a tax cut. "Keep your hands off my Medicare" when it is their own party that is looking to slash their Medicare. "Budget and deficit spending is too high" when it was their boy Bush that shot the deficit sky high and didn't keep the war spending in the budget. The Tea partiers were built on lies and anger at the ni66er in the White House. Most of these people in the Wall Street protest have a very valid, backed by truth, problem with the fat cat scum that occupy the Wall Street offices and control the politicians to make rules that favor them and no one else.

TP = built on lies and racism
OWS = built on anger from true problems

592 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:29:18am

Why can I not get a straight answer to the question: why would things be better under increased Republican control of government than under increased Democratic control?

593 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:29:55am

re: #586 iossarian

I contend that the loss of abortion rights, lack of support for the civil rights of minorities, and deregulation of business that would occur under the Republicans would be a bad thing. It would appear that you disagree, but I'd like to have the details.

Because democrat plantation! That's your details!

594 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:30:29am

re: #591 RayFerd

And that's a key difference. I don't think that the solutions that Adbusters comes up with are good. I'm not on board with anarchy or anti-capitalism.

However, the problem, the reason why they're there, is real. Wages have stagnated. Wealth disparity has increased. This really, really is harmful to our society and it really, really needs a solution.

The Tea Party people spend most of their time protesting things that don't exist, or, if they do exist, are actually good things. They lie to themselves and claim their taxes are higher than ever, during a time period of record low taxes.

595 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:31:13am

re: #588 Obdicut

Who are the Democratic politicians who are supporting Occupy Wall Street?

Charlie Rangel, Raul Grijalva, and Keith Ellison that I can think of right now.

596 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:31:26am

re: #584 NJDhockeyfan

So someone who owns their own cow and drinks the milk is equal to a school getting kids sick with bad milk?

I just don't know how my grandparents survived all those years getting whole milk delivered to their house.

Pastuerization. You might want to read up on it sometime.

597 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:32:37am

re: #595 NJDhockeyfan

Charlie Rangel, Raul Grijalva, and Keith Ellison that I can think of right now.

It's a reparations shakedown is what it is!!

598 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:33:23am

re: #595 NJDhockeyfan

Charlie Rangel, Raul Grijalva, and Keith Ellison that I can think of right now.

Is that all that there are? Is that why you can't think of any more?

599 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:33:28am

re: #597 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's a reparations shakedown is what it is!!

I think we should all apologize to BP right away.

600 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:34:26am

re: #555 Sergey Romanov

Pat Robertson calls Romney an outstanding Christian (if any of you wondered if fundies will vote for him):

[Link: www.christianpost.com...]

"Robertson, a former Southern Baptist pastor, said he now believed that politics was not going to change the world. “It’s really not going to make that much of a difference.” But he would continue to comment on the news of the day, and his comment on Romney’s Christianity was perhaps part of that."

Huh. Well, that sure is...interesting...

601 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:34:43am

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

That does not follow, thankfully. At the very least, despite its nutcases, the GOP can and should make use of the Tea Party to counter these sorts of protests. We need our own rallies, where conservatives remind people of how those sorts of far=left policies have always ended in disaster. People need to be reminded that the GOP is the party that knows how money is made, "Occupy Wall Street" is composed of kids who only know how to spend it.

So does organized crime.

Kids, really. That nurses union might have something to say to you about that. But I know, you are an old dog that knows it all and I am just a 50 year old know nothing kid. Well as I have said before, growing old is mandatory - growing wiser not so much.

602 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:35:17am

re: #559 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

At Tire store. Favorite bit:

[Peter has the couch out on the front lawn. Meg walks by] Peter: Hey, Meg, come here. Have a seat. [she sits down next to him. Peter then does a fake yawn, stretches his arms out, and puts one around Meg] Meg: Dad...what are you doing?

Peter: Meg, I'm a redneck. Which means I am about to do something to you that you will not remember until you're 40.

603 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:35:26am

re: #598 Obdicut

Is that all that there are? Is that why you can't think of any more?

Isn't that enough?

604 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:35:55am

re: #592 iossarian

Why can I not get a straight answer to the question: why would things be better under increased Republican control of government than under increased Democratic control?

I'm not touching that until we have some sensible Republicans running. Until then your question has an unworkable premise, sad to say. I can make a great argument for checks and balance when both parties fight when they must and agree when they should.

605 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:36:37am

re: #603 NJDhockeyfan

Isn't that enough?

No, it's not. Look, Ron Paul endorses some batshit crazy stuff, but you don't see us running around claiming "Republican politicians" are 9/11 Twoofers and want to abolish the Fed.

606 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:37:01am

re: #599 iossarian

I think we should all apologize to BP right away.

Obummer should be opologizing to ME!

If only that Eric Holder Department of Racist Liberation Theology Justice would let me drill for oil in my front yard, BP would not be having all these problems!

607 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:38:12am

re: #603 NJDhockeyfan

Isn't that enough?

Enough for what?

Your OWS Congress, to run around shrieking about, as if they're coming for your daughters?

608 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:38:47am

re: #604 Rightwingconspirator

I'm not touching that until we have some sensible Republicans running. Until then your question has an unworkable premise, sad to say. I can make a great argument for checks and balance when both parties fight when they must and agree when they should.

If it's not possible to answer the question, I don't see how anyone can justifiably vote Republican (which I'm not saying you're advocating, BTW).

I agree that it's sad that one party in a two-party system doesn't have a coherent argument in its favor. People who think that Republican = Eisenhower in 2011 are deluded.

609 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:41:01am

re: #608 iossarian

If it's not possible to answer the question, I don't see how anyone can justifiably vote Republican (which I'm not saying you're advocating, BTW).

I agree that it's sad that one party in a two-party system doesn't have a coherent argument in its favor. People who think that Republican = Eisenhower in 2011 are deluded.

I'm always amused by them. They pine away for the 50's jim crow social order, yet scream about their high taxes now.

They should have seen the tax rates, then. Stupid dupes.

610 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:41:36am

re: #603 NJDhockeyfan

Isn't that enough?

Not really, no, not for the comparison you're trying to draw. You're trying to say that this is 'the left' supporting them. Naming three congresspeople is not a demonstration of that, any more than Ron Paul's existence prior to the Tea Party proved that Randian politics were common or mainstream in the GOP.

The Tea Party was-- and is-- embraced by the totality of the GOP. There were very, very few who were at all critical, and most of them showed up, campaigned at, accepted the endorsements of, held fundraisers with, praised, and otherwise supported the Tea Party protests. All of the current presidential contenders had and have nice things to say about the Tea Party.

Furthermore, again, Adbusters is not actually that well-known an organization. I don't blame anyone for showing up to a Tea Party rally and not knowing that it's actually astroturfing by Dick Armey. I don't blame anyone for showing up to these protests and not knowing it's an Adbusters/ANSWER thing. What I care about is what they actually are claiming, what they're actually protesting.

The protesters who are simply there protesting the way that the banks caused the financial crisis and how they have not suffered from it, I support that point of view. I don't support ANSWER or Adbusters and I think that people should learn about them and reject them.

Mainly, I'm not really a protest kind of guy and would rather see this energy focused into get out the vote campaigns and voter registration, especially in the areas where the GOP has bent heavy political efforts into disenfranchising minorities, students, and other groups.

Does that make sense?

611 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:41:36am

re: #605 thedopefishlives

No, it's not. Look, Ron Paul endorses some batshit crazy stuff, but you don't see us running around claiming "Republican politicians" are 9/11 Twoofers and want to abolish the Fed.

Ron Paul is a libertarian and everyone knows he's an idiot.

612 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:43:07am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

Ron Paul is a libertarian and everyone knows he's an idiot.

So, everyone knows the kooks are kooks. Now that's cleared up, can you explain why increased Republican control of government would be a good thing, with reference to specific policies and their effects?

613 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:43:20am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

Ron Paul is a libertarian Republican and everyone knows he's an idiot.

fxd

614 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:43:29am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

Ron Paul is a libertarian and everyone knows he's an idiot.

If everyone knows he's a idiot, how come his economics and politics are so popular in the GOP right now?

Ron Paul's view on medical insurance, for example, is pretty much the standard GOP line. So are his neo-confederate views on states rights.

615 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:45:51am

Elected Blacks, Mexicans and Muslims, oh my! Mornin' everyone...I see we're gettin' riled over how to label the Occupy Wall Street groups in the off-chance they can be used for political gain.

616 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:46:43am

re: #612 iossarian

So, everyone knows the kooks are kooks. Now that's cleared up, can you explain why increased Republican control of government would be a good thing, with reference to specific policies and their effects?

What's that have to do with a large percentage of lefties in the Occupy Wall Street protests?

617 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:48:08am

re: #614 Obdicut

If everyone knows he's a libertarian, how come his economics and politics are so popular in the GOP right now?

Ron Paul's view on medical insurance, for example, is pretty much the standard GOP line. So are his neo-confederate views on states rights.

I didn't know that. You got a link?

618 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:49:01am

re: #616 NJDhockeyfan

What's that have to do with a large percentage of lefties in the Occupy Wall Street protests?

e_e

But Democrat party!!

619 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:49:09am

Scuba divers left behind in Florida

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

This is why I pay full price and don't buy stuff on Craigslist

620 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:49:29am

re: #616 NJDhockeyfan

What's that have to do with a large percentage of lefties in the Occupy Wall Street protests?

Because unless you can tell me why you think voting Democratic is worse than voting Republican, I have no interest in your "reds under the bed" act.

Ultimately, that is our political power.

Are you planning to vote Republican in the forthcoming elections? If so, why?

621 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:50:08am

Life would be so much easier if those pesky lefties would stop protesting against the job creators of Wall Street. Their messages are so disturbing...ethics? paying a fair share? Heaven forbid!
/

622 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:51:00am

re: #620 iossarian

Are you planning to vote Republican in the forthcoming elections? If so, why?

Yes

Two reasons

Change and Hope!!

:)

623 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:51:49am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

I didn't know that. You got a link?

Sure, it's called the LGF Search page.

624 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:52:58am

re: #614 Obdicut

If everyone knows he's a idiot, how come his economics and politics are so popular in the GOP right now?

Ron Paul's view on medical insurance, for example, is pretty much the standard GOP line. So are his neo-confederate views on states rights.

He's very popular with the young college aged (read, more liberal leaning) crowds also (and has been for at least the last three national election cycles

625 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:53:23am

re: #619 sattv4u2

Scuba divers left behind in Florida

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

This is why I pay full price and don't buy stuff on Craigslist

We didn't notice they weren't on the boat but we charged their credit cards for not returning their dive gear.

626 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:54:12am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

I didn't know that. You got a link?

When a state-level "Democrat" Party adopts the OWS platform, call me.

As for neo-confederate (I just call it flat-out confederate) views, when the governor of a state endorses the Black Panthers, be sure and let me know.

When you find that tape of Michele Obama on hunting trips at Whitey Ranch, don't hesitate to tell.

627 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:54:48am

re: #625 darthstar

We didn't notice they weren't on the boat but we charged their credit cards for not returning their dive gear.

ExACTLY!

628 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:54:51am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

I didn't know that. You got a link?

I'm sorry, do you read a blog called LGF? It's a pretty informative site that covers topics like this.

Ron Paul's view on health insurance is that only free market competition can make health care affordable. This ignores entirely, of course, that the truly sick are a group that health insurance companies do not want to insure.

This is also the GOP position on health care in the US: more competition is the answer. No actual answer to how more competition would change the fact that those who are sick represent a net loss to health insurers.

The states rights position of the GOP is hardly new, and all the current GOP candidates for presidents have espoused it heavily.

Furthermore, even the supposedly sane candidates like Romney and Huntsman have endorsed the Paul Ryan plan, which is watered-down Ron Paul economics.

Can you explain the difference between the GOP attitude towards how health insurance should be addressed and Ron Paul's?

629 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:56:00am

re: #624 sattv4u2

He's very popular with the young college aged (read, more liberal leaning) crowds also (and has been for at least the last three national election cycles

A lefty site top rates him, I heard.

630 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:56:22am

re: #620 iossarian

Because unless you can tell me why you think voting Democratic is worse than voting Republican, I have no interest in your "reds under the bed" act.

Ultimately, that is our political power.

Are you planning to vote Republican in the forthcoming elections? If so, why?

Why? Because after 3 years of a Democrat in the WH and Dems running the House & Senate for 8 years in a row until last year thye economy is in shambles, unemployment is out of control, and people are scared of what the future hold. It's obvious the policies of the Democrats is an utter failure. I'm up for trying something different.

You think we as a country are better off now than when Obama took office? No is the answer.

631 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:56:26am

I vote Democratic and support the Democratic party because:

- I believe that doing so will increase the civil rights of minority groups, the lack of which is bad

- I believe that doing so will increase social justice, and will specifically improve the lives of poor people

- I believe that doing so will make America stronger through increased investment in infrastructure, cost-effective management of public health and reduced dependence on foreign and polluting sources of energy

- I believe that doing so will protect a woman's right to an abortion

Those are the main reasons - there are others. Note also that these are all relative positions - they Democratic party is not perfect, but on all these dimensions I believe that they perform better than the Republicans.

Again, if anyone out there is planning on voting Republican, what are your reasons?

632 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:58:35am

re: #630 NJDhockeyfan

Is there any particular reason you're trying to completely ignore the obstructionism of the GOP?

Do you think everyone else will forget about it because you'd prefer it didn't exist?

And even if we granted everything you said, even if we granted that the Democrats had total control of government and that their policies are a failure, do you understand you'd still need to show that the GOP's ideas are better?

The main GOP plan is Paul Ryan's budget, which is based on stark, absolute lies, and would have amazingly terrible effects, especially on the elderly. Do you think that plan is a good one that should be put into effect?

633 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 6:59:45am

re: #630 NJDhockeyfan

Why? Because after 3 years of a Democrat in the WH and Dems running the House & Senate for 8 years in a row until last year thye economy is in shambles, unemployment is out of control, and people are scared of what the future hold. It's obvious the policies of the Democrats is an utter failure. I'm up for trying something different.

You think we as a country are better off now than when Obama took office? No is the answer.

I see, so presumably you voted Democratic after Bush led us into illegal wars and crashed the economy, based on your "results-oriented" political philosophy?

I also think this is an incredibly simplistic way of viewing the world (party X is in power, things are not going well, so I will vote for party Y regardless of their policies, of which I am ignorant), but you are entitled to it I suppose.

634 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:00:11am

re: #630 NJDhockeyfan

Why? Because after 3 years of a Democrat in the WH and Dems running the House & Senate for 8 years in a row until last year thye economy is in shambles, unemployment is out of control, and people are scared of what the future hold. It's obvious the policies of the Democrats is an utter failure. I'm up for trying something different.

You think we as a country are better off now than when Obama took office? No is the answer.

Except they haven't been running the House and Senate for 8 years in a row. The Republicans have been cockblocking them every step of the way. The only thing of significance that they've managed to ram through the Republicans' objections has been Obamacare.

635 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:00:23am

re: #628 Obdicut

I'm sorry, do you read a blog called LGF? It's a pretty informative site that covers topics like this.

Ron Paul's view on health insurance is that only free market competition can make health care affordable. This ignores entirely, of course, that the truly sick are a group that health insurance companies do not want to insure.

This is also the GOP position on health care in the US: more competition is the answer. No actual answer to how more competition would change the fact that those who are sick represent a net loss to health insurers.

The states rights position of the GOP is hardly new, and all the current GOP candidates for presidents have espoused it heavily.

Furthermore, even the supposedly sane candidates like Romney and Huntsman have endorsed the Paul Ryan plan, which is watered-down Ron Paul economics.

Can you explain the difference between the GOP attitude towards how health insurance should be addressed and Ron Paul's?

The GOP's attitude and Ron Paul's are one and the same: Gamble on the "free market" fixing everything. If it doesn't, then the excuse-making begins, always boiling down to "too much government." They keep pining for some fantasy that never existed, hoping they can return to the days when doctors made house calls and you could "negotiate" on the bill. And that, if you find yourself on the wrong end of the stick, it's somehow your fault because the market doesn't make mistakes.

636 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:00:50am

re: #633 iossarian

I see, so presumably you voted Democratic after Bush led us into illegal wars and crashed the economy, based on your "results-oriented" political philosophy?

I also think this is an incredibly simplistic way of viewing the world (party X is in power, things are not going well, so I will vote for party Y regardless of their policies, of which I am ignorant), but you are entitled to it I suppose.

I see you support the party that has gotten us in this financial mess. Way to go!

637 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:02:11am

re: #636 NJDhockeyfan

I see you support the party that has gotten us in this financial mess. Way to go!

lmao

638 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:02:24am

When you look at how both parties fell for their respective special interests, both parties put up Presidents & legislatures that off shored our manufacturing, both parties that failed us utterly on immigration, and Wall street I just don't see any great argument for either except of course the comparative one. If not for that argument the whole logical edifice falls.

639 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:03:06am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I work not far from Zuccotti Park and will be keeping tabs on events as conditions permit/warrant.

My sense of the protesters to date is that there's a cadre of hardcore professional protesters, and then a bunch of folks who come in on the weekends or after work to swell the numbers - significantly more this past weekend than during the first two weeks.

I don't think most folks who are working down here give them much thought, and while Zuccotti Park is near to Wall Street, it's still far enough away to be out-of-sight, out-of-mind. I think they've found their bearings some in that they've oriented their protests towards Broadway rather than Church - maximizing visibility.

The real action starts today though as a group of unions are expected to join in marches/protests. We'll see if that adds gravitas and lasting power, or whether it's a short lived boost.

But whether this actually motivates politicians to act or spurs political action to get candidates who are aligned with views of the protesters? It's a possibility.

The lunatic fringe is present among these protesters (the anti-Semite fringe) and that's plenty troublesome for me. It's reason enough to keep them at arm's length.

Thing is that there are enough problems with the way Wall Street does business and how insulated it is from actionable change that improves things for most folks that something has to be done.

But I keep reminding myself that the reason that NYC and NYS were in dire fiscal straits during 2007-2010 was because Wall Street essentially collapsed and with it the tax revenues that kept the city and state afloat. That forced the city and state to shift tax burdens to reduce the impact. Some of the tax burden fell on the same groups of people now protesting (or should be protesting) after real estate taxes or other taxes and fees were increased.

A stock tax trust fund may make some sense - a penny per stock transaction could raise significant funds, with say 50% going into a trust fund to cover future financial crises (along the lines of an FDIC/FSLIC but for brokerages and lenders to keep credit flowing). The other 50% could go towards dedicated debt reduction or to fund health care reform.

Considering that an average day sees billions of stocks transacted (4.5 billion in the S&P 500 alone), revenues could quickly build up. 45 million a day. That's going to add up quick - and even if the costs are tacked on to the trader, it would generate 11+ billion ($45 million x 5 days a week x 52 weeks) a year with little drag.

But that would be too rational.

640 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:03:12am

re: #636 NJDhockeyfan

I see you support the party that has gotten us in this financial mess. Way to go!

You're unable to explain how Republican policies would help us get out of this situation, aren't you?

641 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:04:03am

re: #638 Rightwingconspirator

When you look at how both parties fell for their respective special interests, both parties put up Presidents & legislatures that off shored our manufacturing, both parties that failed us utterly on immigration, and Wall street I just don't see any great argument for either except of course the comparative one. If not for that argument the whole logical edifice falls.

Both parties are less than perfect, but the "pox on both their houses" mentality isn't solving anything. Certainly not when the game is rigged from the start.

642 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:04:13am

re: #634 thedopefishlives

Except they haven't been running the House and Senate for 8 years in a row. The Republicans have been cockblocking them every step of the way. The only thing of significance that they've managed to ram through the Republicans' objections has been Obamacare.

Oh, please. If the Democrats has some leadership they could have passed a lot of bills. They are weak. The polls show it.

Poll sees a new low in Americans’ approval of Congress

After nine months of contentious battles on Capitol Hill, Americans have reached a new level of disgust toward Congress that has left nearly all voters angry at their leaders and doubtful that they can fix the problems facing the country.

Whether Republican, Democrat or independent, more Americans disapprove of Congress than at any point in more than two decades of Washington Post-ABC News polling.

Just 14 percent of the public approves of the job Congress is doing, according to the latest poll. That is lower than just before the 1994, 2006 and 2010 elections, when the majority party was on the verge of losing power in the House.

Epic failure in Washington.

643 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:04:19am

re: #639 lawhawk

But that would be too rational.

It's also a left-wing policy.

644 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:05:33am

re: #638 Rightwingconspirator

When you look at how both parties fell for their respective special interests, both parties put up Presidents & legislatures that off shored our manufacturing, both parties that failed us utterly on immigration, and Wall street I just don't see any great argument for either except of course the comparative one. If not for that argument the whole logical edifice falls.

Exactly. There isn't a great argument except for the comparative one. You can either vote for the party that is more or less incompetent, more or less corrupt, and lacks direction, or you can vote for the one that has stated policies of hurting the majority of Americans to enrich a very few.

When compared like that, you can either vote not to hurt yourself, or you can vote to hurt yourself because you hate Democrats. I don't think this is a hard choice, but I also haven't been indoctrinated.

645 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:05:36am

re: #579 NJDhockeyfan

Who said they were connected to the Democratic party?

Drudge did, sourcing Alex Jones for that claim.

646 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:05:47am

re: #638 Rightwingconspirator

When you look at how both parties fell for their respective special interests, both parties put up Presidents & legislatures that off shored our manufacturing, both parties that failed us utterly on immigration, and Wall street I just don't see any great argument for either except of course the comparative one. If not for that argument the whole logical edifice falls.

Yeah but when has it been any different?

I tell that to these anti-Obama Disappointeds who were ready to throw in the towel after 6 mos, all the time: name one election where the candidate was ideal. Nothing but crickets. And if any group of people knows this, it's the antiabortion single-issue types.

This is the way the ball bounces, in a two party system.

647 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:05:48am

re: #641 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Both parties are less than perfect, but the "pox on both their houses" mentality isn't solving anything. Certainly not when the game is rigged from the start.

I think it points to the elephant in the room. Reforming one party will not get the job done. That's just "wishcasting".

648 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:06:18am

re: #639 lawhawk

Excellent post as usual.

The lunatic fringe is present among these protesters (the anti-Semite fringe) and that's plenty troublesome for me. It's reason enough to keep them at arm's length.

Did you see this shit?

649 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:06:26am

re: #640 iossarian

You're unable to explain how Republican policies would help us get out of this situation, aren't you?

To be fair, he's trying to answer at least 5 different posters all at once

It's a tad daunting

been there, done that, and I didn't even get a T-Shirt for my troubles

650 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:06:38am

re: #642 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, please. If the Democrats has some leadership they could have passed a lot of bills.

Do you accept that the Republicans in the Senate have dramatically changed the use of the filibuster to block legislation despite their minority status, yes or no?

651 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:07:01am

re: #636 NJDhockeyfan

I see you support the party that has gotten us in this financial mess. Way to go!

The financial mess that we're in has a number of sources:

1. The unregulated financial industry was able to make 'paper profits' on tons and tons of risky securities, including but not exclusive to mortgage-backed ones. These profits were not based on anything real, and disappeared when the economy went south.

2. We cut taxes while going to war. The debt rose hugely because of this. A large amount of the debt is from that decision, and continues to be from that, since we're now perpetuating what were supposed to be temporary tax reductions.

3. The government should spend heavily in a recession and spend lighter in boom times. The only time we've come close to actually spending less in the boom times was under Clinton. Other than that, we've increased spending no matter what.

The third and final point, increased spending, has occurred as much-- in fact, more-- under the GOP than under the Democrats. Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II were both responsible for huge expansions in government spending.

This will be, of course, another reasonable, painstaking post that you completely fucking ignore and make no attempt to actually learn from, or to have an actual conversation about.

652 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:07:34am

re: #647 Rightwingconspirator

I think it points to the elephant in the room. Reforming one party will not get the job done. That's just "wishcasting".

There needs to be a great deal of reform, but it's rather difficult when the people responsible for seeing said reform become law have a vested interest in the system remaining broken. And that's true on both sides of the aisle.

653 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:07:57am

re: #649 sattv4u2

To be fair, he's trying to answer at least 5 different posters all at once

No he's not. We're all asking the same question more or less: how are Republican policies better than Democratic policies?

654 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:09:44am

re: #649 sattv4u2

To be fair, he's trying to answer at least 5 different posters all at once

It's a tad daunting

Not really. These things happen.

655 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:10:26am

re: #650 iossarian

Do you accept that the Republicans in the Senate have dramatically changed the use of the filibuster to block legislation despite their minority status, yes or no?

If there was some leadership in the Senate, filibusterers would not be necessary.

BTW, how many filibusters did the GOP use to block legislation?

656 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:10:59am

re: #647 Rightwingconspirator

I think it points to the elephant in the room. Reforming one party will not get the job done. That's just "wishcasting".

The Democrats are quite corporatist, just like the GOP. This can easily be seen in stuff like Obama's support for corn biodeisel, which is a crappy idea that does more harm than good-- but it plays well in the corn states.

However, it's a lot easier to go from "AGW is occurring, we need biofuel, so let's use corn" to "Actually, turns out corn isn't a good bioeful, we'll use something else" than it is to get there from "AGW isn't occurring, even if it was it'd be a good thing, and we need to hydrofrak everywhere".

The Democrats are far from perfect, but in many, many areas the policies of the GOP are actively destructive.

The Democrats need reform. At this point, I'm not sure what can be done about the GOP. US politics may really be broken to the point where we're going to be in a long, cold, dark place for the forseeable future, and when we emerge I doubt we'll still be a superpower.

657 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:11:44am

re: #633 iossarian

I also think this is an incredibly simplistic way of viewing the world ...

Ha, well, welcome to Conservatopia, where "nuance" is very French.

658 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:11:58am

re: #655 NJDhockeyfan

If there was some leadership in the Senate, filibusterers would not be necessary.

I call bullshit. It's impossible to break a filibuster when the GOP is staunchly opposed to any sort of reasonable compromise. The whole episode of the debt ceiling should have demonstrated just how uncompromising they are. But of course, I'm sure you'll blame that on a lack of leadership as well.

659 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:12:41am

re: #655 NJDhockeyfan

If there was some leadership in the Senate, filibusterers would not be necessary.

What does that even mean?

BTW, how many filibusters did the GOP use to block legislation?

Vastly more than had ever been used before, as well as blocking more appointments to government positions and using other obstructionist methods.

Do you not actually know this?

660 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:12:51am

re: #658 thedopefishlives

I call bullshit. It's impossible to break a filibuster when the GOP is staunchly opposed to any sort of reasonable compromise. The whole episode of the debt ceiling should have demonstrated just how uncompromising they are. But of course, I'm sure you'll blame that on a lack of leadership as well.

I ask again...how many filibusters did the GOP use to block legislation?

661 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:13:47am

re: #659 Obdicut

Vastly more than had ever been used before, as well as blocking more appointments to government positions and using other obstructionist methods.

How many?

662 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:14:05am

re: #611 NJDhockeyfan

Ron Paul is a libertarian and everyone knows he's an idiot.

Actually, he is a conservative -- neoconfederate paleoconservative to be more precise. The more traditional libertarians shun him.

663 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:14:46am

re: #660 NJDhockeyfan

I ask again...how many filibusters did the GOP use to block legislation?

From when to when?

664 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:16:11am

re: #648 NJDhockeyfan

Excellent post as usual.

Did you see this shit?

[Video]

Seen and debunked.

Thing is, I've no doubt about antisemitism at these protests. I stopped going to ANSWER shyt early on in the 00s because of it, among other things.

I hope what there is of it gets better documented than that video you posted, though.

665 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:16:29am

re: #655 NJDhockeyfan

The threat of a filibuster is sufficient to block legislation if the matter can't even get to the floor for a vote on the merits.

666 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:16:32am

re: #613 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

fxd

Wouldn't stress the Republican thing that much. When he teams up with people like Nader or Kucinich or even votes for DADT repeal he certainly shows less party lockstep than most of his fellow Republicans.

667 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:16:34am

re: #660 NJDhockeyfan

I ask again...how many filibusters did the GOP use to block legislation?

In the 110th Congress, they used 112 filibusters to force cloture. Up through February 2010, the 111th Congress had already exceeded 40 cloture votes. The previous record under a Democrat-minority Congress was 58 for an entire Congressional session.

668 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:16:35am

re: #629 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A lefty site top rates him, I heard.

Thats why I don't go to other sites

umm,, other than Naughty Nurses Dot Com!

//

669 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:16:54am

re: #663 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

From when to when?

If you found a site with the numbers, post the past 10 years by both partys. That would be interesting..

670 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:16:58am

re: #667 thedopefishlives

Source: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

671 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:17:08am

re: #655 NJDhockeyfan

If there was some leadership in the Senate, filibusterers would not be necessary.

A meaningless statement. What does "leadership" have to do with filibusters?

672 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:17:12am

re: #661 NJDhockeyfan

I'm sorry, are you trying to split hairs between the times that the GOP just announced that they would filibuster, and the times they actually enacted filibuster, or what?

The GOP invoked cloture-- fillibustered-- 112 times in 2007-2008. The Democrats highest ever total-- when they were in the minority-- was 58 an 1999-2000.

So, the GOP filibustered nearly twice as often in 2007-2008 than the Democrats ever did.

673 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:17:30am

re: #660 NJDhockeyfan

I ask again...how many filibusters did the GOP use to block legislation?

Google is your friend.

674 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:17:37am

re: #661 NJDhockeyfan

How many?

[Link: www.acslaw.org...]

But he maintains that despite the mistake, "the Republicans are filibustering twice as often as Democrats have in any previous Congress - so they clearly are abusing the system."

Aravosis writes:

What the data clearly shows is that he GOP is filibustering at twice the rate of what the Democrats did before, including what they did under Bush. So Republicans can't claim that Democrats did it too - they didn't. Not like this.

Another interesting data point: IN the last ninety years, there have been 1,195 cloture motions filed, and a874 cloture votes, per the Senate site. The Republicans in the last three years that they've been in the minority, have caused 215 of the motions to be filed, and 157 of those cloture votes. That means in just the past three years, the Republicans have been responsible for 18% of all filibusters recorded in the past 90 years.

675 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:18:01am

re: #666 000G

Wouldn't stress the Republican thing that much. When he teams up with people like Nader or Kucinich or even votes for DADT repeal he certainly shows less party lockstep than most of his fellow Republicans.

It's the letter that's always been behind his name, which is why I said it.

He could do like Lieberman or Sanders and change affiliation any time, but he hasn't.

676 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:18:27am

re: #673 Sergey Romanov

Google is your friend.

No. Facts are not friendly to Republicans.

677 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:18:30am

re: #669 NJDhockeyfan

If you found a site with the numbers, post the past 10 years by both partys. That would be interesting..

TPM: 111th Senate Breaks A Filibuster Record

678 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:18:33am

re: #673 Sergey Romanov

Google is your friend.

I thought so

Then he didn't return my cordless screwgun, and we haven't spoken since!

679 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:18:58am

re: #668 sattv4u2

Thats why I don't go to other sites

umm,, other than Naughty Nurses Dot Com!

//

"Lefty sites" is something of a running joke in this thread.

680 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:19:40am

re: #669 NJDhockeyfan

If you found a site with the numbers, post the past 10 years by both partys. That would be interesting..

So, now that you've seen the information posted, do you accept that the recent Republican use of the filibuster represents a significant change?

681 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:19:56am

re: #679 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

"Lefty sites" is something of a running joke in this thread.

Too old to run

Can I walk instead? And make sure theres a nice park bench so I can rest every so often!

682 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:22:10am

re: #648 NJDhockeyfan

Excellent post as usual.

Did you see this shit?

[Video]

Doesn't the fact that one well-known deranged narc is waved around as illustrating something or other about this whole affair prove that there is next to no actual antisemitism at these protests? Otherwise surely we would see something more than one stale video.

683 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:23:13am

re: #680 iossarian

So, now that you've seen the information posted,

Great info on that, thanks.

do you accept that the recent Republican use of the filibuster represents a significant change?

Sure. The fact that neither side can agree on anything explains why the entire country says they suck.

684 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:24:21am

re: #683 NJDhockeyfan

Great info on that, thanks.

Sure. The fact that neither side can agree on anything explains why the entire country says they suck.

But! Democrat party!!

685 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:26:05am

re: #683 NJDhockeyfan

That's sad, man. Just sad.

Why can't you ever actually have a real conversation?

686 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:27:09am

re: #682 Sergey Romanov

Doesn't the fact that one well-known deranged narc is waved around as illustrating something or other about this whole affair prove that there is next to no actual antisemitism at these protests? Otherwise surely we would see something more than one stale video.

I think there are more than one there.

"Jews control Wall Street! F*ck the Jews! F*ck Israel!"

687 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:28:49am

re: #683 NJDhockeyfan

Great info on that, thanks.

Sure. The fact that neither side can agree on anything explains why the entire country says they suck.

So, because the Republicans have changed the way that legislation is passed, leading to gridlock, the entire country thinks that the legislative process is broken.

And you're planning to vote Republican, despite not being able to name a single policy of theirs that you think would be beneficial to the country.

This conversation is ovah.

688 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:30:17am

re: #687 iossarian

So, because the Republicans have changed the way that legislation is passed, leading to gridlock, the entire country thinks that the legislative process is broken.

And you're planning to vote Republican, despite not being able to name a single policy of theirs that you think would be beneficial to the country.

This conversation is ovah.

OK, I can tell by all the downdings that most of you believe the Democrats have nothing to do with this bad economic mess and high unemployment. Got it.

689 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:30:49am

re: #686 NJDhockeyfan

Yep, it's an antisemitic bigot.

Got more?

690 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:31:59am

re: #688 NJDhockeyfan

OK, I can tell by all the downdings that most of you believe the Democrats have nothing to do with this bad economic mess and high unemployment. Got it.

How about reading posts instead of trying to glean information via downdings?

You could even try responding to them substantially, and, for example, when someone bothers to write a long, clear post explaining their positions to you, you could respond in kind, rather than with a fatuous one-liner you think is clever.

691 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:32:02am

re: #686 NJDhockeyfan

I think there are more than one there.

[Video]"Jews control Wall Street! F*ck the Jews! F*ck Israel!"

also note the youtube channel that uploaded it. That was filmed and uploaded by a supporter of the protesters. I'm just sick of this shit and have resigned myself to it. The lefties just make the same excuses the Tea Partiers did. Idiots all, I'm done with it.

692 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:32:10am

re: #688 NJDhockeyfan

OK, I can tell by all the downdings that most of you believe the Democrats have nothing to do with this bad economic mess and high unemployment. Got it.

No, we just don't agree that the Republicans have nothing to do with this bad economic mess and high unemployment. I'm pretty sure that most of the lizardim are of the "a plague on both your houses" opinion at this point, as neither party has demonstrated anything resembling intelligence.

693 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:32:30am

re: #688 NJDhockeyfan

OK, I can tell by all the downdings that most of you believe the Democrats have nothing to do with this bad economic mess and high unemployment. Got it.

A single policy, that's all I ask.

One policy. One reason to vote Republican.

694 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:32:39am

re: #688 NJDhockeyfan

OK, I can tell by all the downdings that most of you believe the Democrats have nothing to do with this bad economic mess and high unemployment. Got it.

Well no, my downdings simply mean what they mean for everything else I downding, that I feel those particular posts are packed with crap. You've posted about more than just Democrat party.

695 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:32:41am

re: #691 Killgore Trout

Depends who you mean by 'lefties' of course. Am I a lefty?

696 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:33:43am

re: #695 Obdicut

Depends who you mean by 'lefties' of course. Am I a lefty?

I heard a lefty site top rates you.

[ducks]

697 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:33:45am

re: #686 NJDhockeyfan

I think there are more than one there.

[Video]
"Jews control Wall Street! F*ck the Jews! F*ck Israel!"

There is only one guy, and people are ignoring him or jeering at him.

698 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:34:23am

re: #190 palomino

It's too amorphous at this point for me to pass judgment. In terms of content, their positions deserve to be aired and discussed by everyone. But their form of demonstration and hijinks leave a lot to be desired.

Yeah, this. In theory, I'm sympathetic to the idea of going after Wall Street. There's a massive need for reform, especially after all the garbage with mortgages and credit default swaps. There's plenty to be angry about.

That said, street protests leave any idea vulnerable to the kooks invading the protests and changing the subject. At that point, the kooks become the focus and the legitimate ideas that might have been at the heart of the protests get lost. All of a sudden, you'd have to answer for a bunch of outside groups with their own agenda because the protests themselves are so disorganized.

699 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:34:45am

re: #691 Killgore Trout

the single tadpole attract any company yet?

AND ,,, just as I bought and put out more hummingbird feeders/ food, the weather turned very cool here and most have seemed to have moved on! :(

700 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:35:01am

re: #688 NJDhockeyfan

OK, I can tell by all the downdings that most of you believe the Democrats have nothing to do with this bad economic mess and high unemployment. Got it.

This conversation, and the others like it that happen every day and night here, are an object lesson.

The only reason an actively destructive quasi-party like modern Republicans even has a chance electorally is because thirty years of Conservative cult media have drilled ordinary Americans with so much hate that they are willing to actively hurt themselves so they can 'stand against' other Americans they hate.

It's worked brilliantly.

701 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:36:57am

re: #700 Renaissance_Man

This conversation, and the others like it that happen every day and night here, are an object lesson.

The only reason an actively destructive quasi-party like modern Republicans even has a chance electorally is because thirty years of Conservative cult media have drilled ordinary Americans with so much hate that they are willing to actively hurt themselves so they can 'stand against' other Americans they hate.

It's worked brilliantly.

Fairness Doctrine is not fair!!

Fox News is the victory mosque.

702 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:37:12am

re: #699 sattv4u2

the single tadpole attract any company yet?

AND ,,, just as I bought and put out more hummingbird feeders/ food, the weather turned very cool here and most have seemed to have moved on! :(

I have/had one young adult frog for a while. I haven't heard him for the past couple days so he might have gotten eaten by the rats. the frog population might be a lost cause.

703 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:37:22am

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

And that will reduce the monies available for private jobs still further. It is the transfer of money from wealth producers to wealth consumers. Most unwise.

Goodnight.

Still further than what? We don't have any fucking jobs being created now after giving them HUGE tax breaks AND kickbacks on taxes they didn't pay AND corporate welfare. Shit, doing the same thing and expecting different results shows you as either being out of touch with reality (crazy, a suitable case for treatment) or severely stupid.

704 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:37:50am

re: #693 iossarian

A single policy, that's all I ask.

One policy. One reason to vote Republican.

You can't do it, can you? Not a single policy area where the Republican option is better than the Democratic one.

705 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:38:01am

re: #669 NJDhockeyfan

If you found a site with the numbers, post the past 10 years by both partys. That would be interesting..

Image: Filibuster-chart-100708.jpg
Through 2008

706 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:38:31am

re: #702 Killgore Trout

I have/had one young adult frog for a while. I haven't heard him for the past couple days so he might have gotten eaten by the rats. the frog population might be a lost cause.

Sorry man!

OTOH ,,, the deers have returned
((well,, not sure if it's the same family I had last spring, but "someone" is living in the clearing I made a few years ago

707 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:38:38am

re: #686 NJDhockeyfan

Yep, that's 2.

708 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:38:41am

re: #699 sattv4u2

the single tadpole attract any company yet?

AND ,,, just as I bought and put out more hummingbird feeders/ food, the weather turned very cool here and most have seemed to have moved on! :(

Keep the feeders out just in case. You might be suprised, we have humming birds here all winter long. Even during hard freezes there are still hummingbirds around. I have no clue how they survive.

709 garhighway  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:38:55am

Morning, all. Can we go back to the "Democrats ruined the economy" thing again? I'd like to hear more about that. because here's the timeline I remember:
The credit crisis happened in the fall of 2008, under Bush.
Which tanked the stock market, generated a huge spike in unemployment and crushed consumer demand.

I suppose we could argue about why the credit crisis occurred, but that doesn't take you anyplace useful to the "D's tanked the economy" narrative.

So the economy tanks under Bush, Obama comes in, saves hundreds of thousands of jobs by keeping GM and Chrysler going, and gets some stimulus money out of Congress. For those who say the stimulus didn't work, I would agree that we didn't get as much out of it as we would have liked, but I would further note that:

1> most economists agree that it knocked at least a couple of points off of the unemployment rate, and
2> It's major sin was being too small, but there was no political consensus behind making it bigger (and the R's all voted no anyway).

And we are now, with an economy that is stalled for lack of consumer demand, and the R answer is to give us more of the policies that tanked the economy in the first place: less regulation, more "trust us, we're rich guys" economic policies, ...

It's as if they have decided that being scientifically ignorant has been working for them, so they should be ignorant of finance and economics, too.

710 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:39:38am

re: #698 Lidane

A lot of that is just amateurism. That, and this ahistorical view of civil disobedience that seems to think because one has memorized a couple lines from an MLK speech and knows about Rosa Parks' feet, they too can change things.

It works the nerves, it really does.

711 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:40:19am

re: #471 Obdicut

I think what we really need is voting drives, and ID drives in those states with the new, restrictive laws. I think we need campaigning for the various Democratic senators who are up for re-election or replacing retiring ones.

Does the DNC or any other high-profile Democratic Party institution sponsor anything like this? If not, why not?

712 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:41:13am

re: #709 garhighway

It's as if they have decided that being scientifically ignorant has been working for them, so they should be ignorant of finance and economics, too.

Ignorance is bliss, as the saying goes.

/Hey, if it works for the Teabaggers...

713 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:41:21am

Hmmm... NY AG Schneiderman is suing Bank of NY Mellon for $2 billion over foreign currency transactions going back a decade.

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman sued Bank of New York Mellon for $2 billion on Tuesday, claiming it earned that amount over 10 years by defrauding clients in foreign currency exchange transactions.

According to Schneiderman's office, BNY Mellon misrepresented rates it would give currency transactions, providing nearly the worst rates of the trading day instead of the best. The case began with a 2009 whistle-blower complaint followed by an investigation. Clients include public pension funds.

New York City joined in the lawsuit. Deputy Comptroller Ricardo Morales said officials are confident pensioners and taxpayers will recoup money they are owed.

The bank said the lawsuit was "prosecutorial overreach" based on "a fundamental misunderstanding" of the role of custodian banks in the global foreign currency market. BNY Mellon said it is confident it will prevail in the suit, which was filed in state Supreme Court in Manhattan.

The investigation began under current Gov. Cuomo and continued under new AG Schneiderman. It wouldn't be surprising that the bank fudged its transaction rates to its own benefit. But whether NY recoups $2 billion is unlikely. Expect a settlement for a fraction of that amount.

714 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:42:09am

re: #648 NJDhockeyfan

Excellent post as usual.

Did you see this shit?

[Video]

Referenced earlier above, look for "lotion".

715 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:42:16am

re: #709 garhighway

Well yeah, but you forgot about this ironclad argument:

1) There is a Democrat President.
2) The economy is bad.

All that other stuff you said sounds like nuance, probably from your reality-based worldview. You must be some sort of socialist.

716 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:43:42am

re: #707 Sergey Romanov

Yep, that's 2.

Here's another one.

After visiting the protest she wrote about it at
HuffPo.

(Note all the anti-Semitic comments by the usual suspects)

Supporters of the Wall Street Occupation Demand Free Expression -- Except for Jews, Apparently

717 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:44:13am

re: #711 000G

Does the DNC or any other high-profile Democratic Party institution sponsor anything like this? If not, why not?

Yes, they do.

718 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:44:30am

re: #697 Alouette

There is only one guy, and people are ignoring him or jeering at him.

Hey, what do you know. You're a well-known lefty.

/

719 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:46:31am

re: #716 NJDhockeyfan

Meh, that person is claiming a lot of weed was getting smoked. That's definitely untrue.

720 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:47:27am

re: #709 garhighway

It's as if they have decided that being scientifically ignorant has been working for them, so they should be ignorant of finance and economics, too.

We don't need yer fancy finance and economics. Gubmint should cut mah taxes, balance the budget, and let me live out my Ayn Rand fantasy.

721 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:47:54am

In other business news, Friendly's is declaring Ch 11 bankruptcy. That's not shocking, but it means that still more jobs are likely to be lost. It cites a tough economy, but that ignores the fact that the company's restaurants have been awful for years on end. They've been at the bottom of customer service surveys, including by CR.

When you have poor customer service and don't update your menu to reflect the times, you're going to find yourself out of business. Their supermarket ice cream sales lines aren't going to be affected by this - it's about the only part of the company that has any value IMO besides real estate locations. The owners drove this business into the ground with poor and notoriously slow customer service and bad food. That's the kiss of death in the food service business.

722 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:48:14am

Jane Fonda! Traitors!

723 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:48:48am

re: #708 Killgore Trout

Keep the feeders out just in case. You might be suprised, we have humming birds here all winter long. Even during hard freezes there are still hummingbirds around. I have no clue how they survive.

will do

724 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:49:45am

re: #716 NJDhockeyfan

(Note all the anti-Semitic comments by the usual suspects)

I find "usual suspects" to be people I can ignore. Geller, Breitbart, Boehner, McConnell...people who use hate and bigotry on a regular basis carry no weight with me.

725 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:49:45am

And on that note

Chiropractor
Eye Doctor
Home Depot
Grocery shopping
Cook dinner

Man,, I love days off!!!

:(

726 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:49:52am

re: #722 iossarian

Jane Fonda! Traitors!

Socialism tomorrow?!?

727 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:51:52am

re: #726 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Socialism tomorrow?!?

Communism.

This thread is now over.

728 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:52:59am

re: #724 darthstar

I find "usual suspects" to be people I can ignore. Geller, Breitbart, Boehner, McConnell...people who use hate and bigotry on a regular basis carry no weight with me.

Well hate, bigotry, racism, and anti-Semitism is the rule at HuffPo.

729 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:54:17am

re: #716 NJDhockeyfan

Here's another one.

After visiting the protest she wrote about it at
HuffPo.

But that's a lefty site.

e_e

730 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:54:24am

re: #728 NJDhockeyfan

Well hate, bigotry, racism, and anti-Semitism is the rule at HuffPo.

Please learn to distinguish between the authors of the actual articles and the lumpenproles who thump out the crap comments.

731 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:54:31am

re: #716 NJDhockeyfan

Here's another one.

After visiting the protest she wrote about it at
HuffPo.

(Note all the anti-Semitic comments by the usual suspects)

Supporters of the Wall Street Occupation Demand Free Expression -- Except for Jews, Apparently

I'm certain that if I google "Jews, banksters, wall street" I will literally get more than 100,000 comments like this one. We're talking specifically about the street protests. I'm more than sure that there are antisemites in the crowds there, well, because there are antisemites in the general population, for starters. Plus the original organizers have a shady history.

What counts, however, is the end result. If 1, 2, even 10 such obvious lonely crazies are all there is, then we can be sure the OSW on the whole is not antisemitic.

If there is a forest of placards about "Jewish bankers" and "Zionism" - then OSW is generally antisemitic and every decent person should spit on it.

I don't think these criteria are unreasonable.

732 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:55:15am

re: #691 Killgore Trout

The lefties just make the same excuses the Tea Partiers did. Idiots all, I'm done with it.

Care to name names? Who's excusing the antisemites?

733 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:55:58am

re: #717 Obdicut

Yes, they do.

How can I support that?

734 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:56:52am

re: #728 NJDhockeyfan

Well hate, bigotry, racism, and anti-Semitism is the rule at HuffPo.

Note at the bottom of the page from a HuffPo superuser:

Sadly, this article is already being used to oppose the movement by labeling it as antisemiti­c. I know the movement needs a focus, but even our Founding Fathers took years to coalesce their movement into a Revolution and a country.

You're a good conservative activist, NJD. You react predictably to certain stimuli.

735 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:58:03am

re: #731 Sergey Romanov

I'm certain that if I google "Jews, banksters, wall street" I will literally get more than 100,000 comments like this one. We're talking specifically about the street protests. I'm more than sure that there are antisemites in the crowds there, well, because there are antisemites in the general population, for starters. Plus the original organizers have a shady history.

What counts, however, is the end result. If 1, 2, even 10 such obvious lonely crazies are all there is, then we can be sure the OSW on the whole is not antisemitic.

If there is a forest of placards about "Jewish bankers" and "Zionism" - then OSW is generally antisemitic and every decent person should spit on it.

I don't think these criteria are unreasonable.

I would hope that you are right. As this protest builds and more people with video camera tape the protests we will see if it's isolated or not. I hope it is isolated. I find it disgusting.

736 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:58:31am

re: #705 darthstar

Image: Filibuster-chart-100708.jpg
Through 2008

I guess this wasn't interesting after all...damn facts.

737 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:58:38am

re: #re: #718 Sergey Romanov

Hey, what do you know. You're a well-known lefty.

/

Alouette is the Jane Fonda of LGF.

/

738 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:58:39am

re: #733 000G

You're a citizen of Germany, right? I have no idea what the laws are on foreign donations.

The actual Democratic party activity for this is:

[Link: www.dccc.org...]

Donations to them are used for all their activities, not just get out the vote.

And again, I don't know the law, so please check before attempting to donate to any US get out the vote orgs.

739 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 7:58:56am

This morning's Spotify soundtrack - Foster the People:

Very cool.

740 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:00:08am

re: #737 000G

#718 Sergey Romanov


Alouette is the Jane Fonda of LGF.

/

Noooooo!

741 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:00:41am

re: #738 Obdicut

Thanks!

742 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:01:08am

re: #735 NJDhockeyfan

I would hope that you are right. As this protest builds and more people with video camera tape the protests we will see if it's isolated or not. I hope it is isolated. I find it disgusting.

Me too. And I'm open-minded about it, in the sense that I don't discount the possibility of bigotry and antisemitism expressed there. Basically, my stance is that of Obdi. The organizers are stinky fellows. Yet the issues are legitimate. If they decide to self-immolate by going the "Jews did it" route, so much worse for them.

743 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:01:45am

re: #736 darthstar

I guess this wasn't interesting after all...damn facts.

No, it is interesting. It's a key element of the argument: because the Republicans have debased the legislative process, and have no policies I can name that will improve the US, I plan to vote Republican in the upcoming elections.

744 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:01:52am

re: #737 000G

#718 Sergey Romanov

Alouette is the Jane Fonda of LGF.

/

We need a Soros. I'm just sayin'...

745 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:02:28am

re: #744 Sergey Romanov

We need a Soros. I'm just sayin'...

Shh. You'll give me away, and then everyone wants a handout.

746 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:03:03am

re: #744 Sergey Romanov

You will be Soros.

Obdicut gets to be Alinsky. And OhCrap gets to be Piven.

747 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:03:15am

re: #745 iossarian

Shh. You'll give me away, and then everyone wants a handout.

OK. We'll discuss my share for the silence a bit later.

748 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:04:09am

re: #746 000G

You will be Soros.

Obdicut gets to be Alinsky. And OhCrap gets to be Piven.

I'll be Woody Guthrie.

749 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:04:39am

re: #747 Sergey Romanov

OK. We'll discuss my share for the silence a bit later.

Yes. After I complete my plan to institute ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!

HAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

/crap, is this thing on?

750 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:04:50am

re: #746 000G

You will be Soros.

Obdicut gets to be Alinsky. And OhCrap gets to be Piven.

I think Iceweasel has already claimed the Soros title.

I am the Learned Mother of Zion.

751 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:05:18am

re: #748 darthstar

I'll be Woody Guthrie.

We don't need you anymore, your machine already killed all of the fascists.

752 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:05:54am

“Occupy Wall Street” protesters sue New York City

Wall Street protesters arrested in a march across the Brooklyn Bridge Oct. 1 filed a lawsuit claiming New York City, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the police commissioner violated their constitutional rights.

Five of the protesters, seeking to represent about 700 people arrested in the march, filed a civil rights complaint in federal court in Manhattan today. The protesters claimed officers from the New York City Police Department lured them onto the bridge’s roadway to trap and arrest them.

As far as I know blocking the Brooklyn Bridge is against the law.

753 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:06:52am

re: #752 NJDhockeyfan

Love the "lured" part.

What was the bait?

754 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:07:50am

re: #746 000G

Is it a problem that I don't know the first thing about Alinsky?

755 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:08:52am

re: #752 NJDhockeyfan

Five of the protesters, seeking to represent about 700 people arrested in the march

Five people trying to sue on behalf of 700? Really? I'm not a lawyer, but I can't imagine a court going for that.

756 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:09:37am

re: #754 Obdicut

Is it a problem that I don't know the first thing about Alinsky?

Not really. Alinsky is only useful as a soundbite anyway.

757 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:09:37am

re: #754 Obdicut

No, that works out great, actually. Just remember to carry your name tag.

758 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:10:15am

re: #755 Lidane

Five people trying to sue on behalf of 700? Really? I'm not a lawyer, but I can't imagine a court going for that.

It could be ruled a class action if the plaintiffs frame it right. However, that in itself is a risky move.

759 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:11:33am

re: #754 Obdicut

Is it a problem that I don't know the first thing about Alinsky?

You know the stereotype. That of a learned evil elder writing a book of instructions for the destruction of the society. That should be enough for the act.

*whistling Al in the sky with diamonds*

760 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:12:30am

MSNBC:

Wall Street rallies could be left’s Tea Party

...Liberals are optimistic that those protests will translate into the kind of lasting political movement achieved over the last two years by the Tea Party, which helped reshape the trajectory of American politics, particularly within the Republican Party.

..."It seems like on the weekend it finally hit the mainstream, and it's become kind of a political left movement in the U.S., hopefully to rival the Tea Party," said Kalle Lasn, the editor in chief of Adbusters, a leftist magazine that first developed the concept behind the demonstrations. "The Tea Party became the force it has become because it had tens of thousands of passionate people pushing up and influencing elections and policy. And now we'll see if political left has the guts to do the same."

...“I think they’re really touching a nerve,” Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, told MSNBC host Ed Schultz on his radio show Tuesday.

“I'm sure that there are political analysts who are looking at this in exactly that way. Whether that's successful is another story and whether the movement grows or is co-opted is completely speculative,” said Michael J. Williams, the president of the liberal group Americans for Democratic Action.

...“I think this is a classic progressive, independent grassroots movement that will both build its own independent force, its own agenda and moral voice. And then you'll see that try to find expression and accrue champions of that in the electoral arena,” said Robert Borosage, a co-director of the organization.

Let's hope the Occupy Wall Street protests don't turn to ugly violence. The Dems and left who are supporting it will look bad if that happens.

761 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:13:00am

re: #758 thedopefishlives

It could be ruled a class action if the plaintiffs frame it right. However, that in itself is a risky move.

That's why I'm not a lawyer. I don't claim to know these things. Hehe.

762 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:14:41am

re: #760 NJDhockeyfan

Let's hope this Occupy Wall Street protests don't turn to ugly violence. The Dems and left who are supporting it will look bad if that happens.

Oh, I'm sure that would break your heart. Your concern is noted.

///

763 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:15:32am

re: #760 NJDhockeyfan

MSNBC:

Wall Street rallies could be left’s Tea Party

Let's hope the Occupy Wall Street protests don't turn to ugly violence. The Dems and left who are supporting it will look bad if that happens.

You sound ... concerned.

Any Republican policy news this morning?

764 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:16:43am

re: #763 iossarian

You sound ... concerned.

Any Republican policy news this morning?

Do you know how to search for that?

765 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:17:08am

re: #763 iossarian

Any Republican policy news this morning?

There'd have to be actual Republican policy first. =P

766 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:17:14am

re: #762 Lidane

Oh, I'm sure that would break your heart. Your concern is noted.

///

Boy, there sure is a lot of concern among Righties this morning. It's heartwarming, isn't it?

There's nothing they want more than to be able to say 'I told you so.'

767 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:17:35am

re: #762 Lidane

Oh, I'm sure that would break your heart. Your concern is noted.

///

I abhor violence no matter who does it. Don't be an ass.

768 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:17:44am

re: #764 NJDhockeyfan

Do you know how to search for that?

You're the Republican voter. I think it's pathetic that you can't name a single Republican policy you support.

769 garhighway  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:18:49am

re: #768 iossarian

You're the Republican voter. I think it's pathetic that you can't name a single Republican policy you support.

He supports the idea that Obama caused the great recession of 2008. Isn't that enough?

770 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:19:49am

re: #760 NJDhockeyfan

MSNBC:

Wall Street rallies could be left’s Tea Party

MSNBC wants OWS to be the left's Tea Party. Why? Because MSNBC wants to be the Fox News of "the Left".

I predict fail.

771 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:20:23am

Anonymous Vows to Attack NYSE

Anonymous, a group of self-styled hacker-activists behind attacks on corporate and government websites, vowed to support the Occupy Wall Street protests by erasing the New York Stock Exchange “from the Internet” on Oct. 10.

The group posted a video message on YouTube declaring war on the world’s largest stock exchange in retaliation for the mass arrests of Wall Street protesters, and posted a link to the video on one of several Anonymous Twitter feeds.

The two-minute message didn’t elaborate on the threat or whether it referred only to an attack on the NSYE website, which would have no effect on trading.

Barrett Brown, where are you?

772 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:21:12am

re: #771 NJDhockeyfan

Didn't he leave them or something?

773 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:21:31am

re: #771 NJDhockeyfan

Anonymous Vows to Attack NYSE

Barrett Brown, where are you?

Between the Anonymous with the Guy Fawkes mask and the Anonymous with the Guy Fawkes mask. Haven't you learned anything from Where is Waldo?

774 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:21:54am

re: #772 Sergey Romanov

He's now published a book, and is now getting threats from Anonymous.

Which is, you know, predictable.

775 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:23:55am

re: #767 NJDhockeyfan

I abhor violence no matter who does it.

I suspect you are actually quite supportive of state-sponsored violence, e.g., the US military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, executions in Texas and so forth.

776 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:24:25am

re: #768 iossarian

You're the Republican voter. I think it's pathetic that you can't name a single Republican policy you support.

I can name a Republican policy! Taking jobs away from veterans and their families!

The project would bring “more than $1 billion of private investment into economically hard-hit military communities,” according to SolarCity CEO Lyndon Rive.

SolarCity has said it would work to employ American veterans and family members for the 750 people needed to complete the project, showing that green jobs do indeed exist.
...
The conditional commitment for the so-called SolarStrong project was issued days after the Solyndra bankruptcy. It was a piece of good news after a drumbeat of bad developments in the weekend after the Solyndra story broke. Since then, however, the resulting investigation has added a slew of new documentation requirements, making it impossible for SolarCity to meet the deadlines imposed.

Three Republicans - Cliff Stearns, Ed Whitfield and Fred Upton - are responsible. Is this that "government regulation destroys private investment and jobs" stuff I keep hearing about? :)

777 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:25:51am

Fun fact: did you know Al Gore was actually named in Saul Alinsky's honor?

/From: How to start a rumor

778 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:27:00am

In other news, Obama calls Cantor out by name.

“Yesterday, the Republican Majority Leader in Congress, Eric Cantor, said that right now he won’t even let this jobs bill have a vote in the House of Representatives. This is what he said. Won’t even let it be debated. Won’t even give it a chance to be debated on the floor of the House of Representatives.

“Think about that. I mean, what’s the problem? Do they not have the time? They just had a week off. Is it inconvenient?

“Look, I’d like Mr. Cantor to come down here to Dallas and explain what exactly in this jobs bill does he not believe in. What exactly is he opposed to? Does he not believe in rebuilding America’s roads and bridges? Does he not believe in tax breaks for small businesses, or efforts to help our veterans?

“Mr. Cantor should come down to Dallas and look Kim Russell in the eye and tell her why she doesn’t deserve to be back in the classroom doing what she loves, helping our kids. Come tell her students why they don’t deserve to have their teacher back. Come tell Dallas construction workers why they should be sitting idle instead of out there on the job. Tell small business owners and workers in this community why you’d rather defend tax breaks for folks who don’t need them — for millionaires — rather than tax cuts for middle-class families.

“And if you won’t do that, at least put this jobs bill up for a vote so that the entire country knows exactly where members of Congress stand. Put your cards on the table.”

Get him, Mr. President. They hate when you do that.

779 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:29:02am

re: #778 makeitstop

In other news, Obama calls Cantor out by name.

Get him, Mr. President. They hate when you do that.

Daaamn... That was a bulls-eye if ever I saw one. This is the kind of stuff I'd hoped to hear from the President back when the debt ceiling shenanigans were going on.

780 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:30:48am

re: #775 iossarian

I suspect you are actually quite supportive of state-sponsored violence, e.g., the US military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, executions in Texas and so forth.

WTF? I support our military killing terrorists. What is wrong with you?

Executing murderers is OK with me.

781 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:32:48am

re: #780 NJDhockeyfan

WTF? I support our military killing terrorists. What is wrong with you?

Executing murderers is OK with me.

I was just pointing out that you don't "abhor violence" no matter who commits it.

Some kinds of violence are OK.

782 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:33:23am

re: #780 NJDhockeyfan

WTF? I support our military killing terrorists. What is wrong with you?

Executing murderers is OK with me.

And yet, in your own words, you abhor violence no matter who does it. Wouldn't that include the state?

Or is your concern only limited to street protesters you disagree with?

783 garhighway  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:34:14am

re: #781 iossarian

I was just pointing out that you don't "abhor violence" no matter who commits it.

Some kinds of violence are OK.

100% pure pacifists are pretty rare.

784 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:34:20am

re: #778 makeitstop

In other news, Obama calls Cantor out by name.

“Yesterday, the Republican Majority Leader in Congress, Eric Cantor, said that right now he won’t even let this jobs bill have a vote in the House of Representatives. "

Get him, Mr. President. They hate when you do that.

After hearing that Mitch McConnell asked for unanimous consent to proceed on voting on the bill. Harry Reid blocked it. Will Obama call out Harry Reid by name?

785 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:34:31am

re: #760 NJDhockeyfan

Let's hope the Occupy Wall Street protests don't turn to ugly violence. The Dems and left who are supporting it will look bad if that happens.

We'll see how Bloomberg is going to handle it this time.

Ahem.

786 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:34:56am

re: #748 darthstar

I'll be Woody Guthrie.

There's a new Woody Guthrie, and OWS should be singing his songs.

787 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:35:19am

re: #781 iossarian

I was just pointing out that you don't "abhor violence" no matter who commits it.

Some kinds of violence are OK.

That's ridiculous.

788 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:36:40am

re: #784 NJDhockeyfan

Do you get the difference between not bringing the bill to a vote right now, and never bringing it to a vote?

789 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:37:13am

re: #782 Lidane

All violence is equally bad. It's just some violence is more equal than another. /

790 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:37:19am

re: #784 NJDhockeyfan

After hearing that Mitch McConnell asked for unanimous consent to proceed on voting on the bill. Harry Reid blocked it. Will Obama call out Harry Reid by name?

As an addendum to the "China Currency Manipulation" legislation.

791 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:38:37am

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Hehee.

Barack Obama has jumped to a 15-point lead over the Republicans in Congress in trust to handle job creation, a sign the beleaguered president’s $450 billion jobs package has hit its mark in public opinion. Fifty-two percent support the plan – and most say it just might work.

792 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:38:58am

re: #790 wozzablog

Oh really? Heh. That's funny.

Yep:

“I agree with the president, I think he’s entitled to a vote on his jobs bill,” the Republican leader said on the Senate floor as he tried to force an immediate vote on the American Jobs Act by attaching it to unrelated legislation.

793 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:39:04am

re: #788 Obdicut

Do you get the difference between not bringing the bill to a vote right now, and never bringing it to a vote?

Obama called out Eric Cantor about what he said and Mitch McConnell went ahead and tried to put it up for a vote. Harry Reid blocked it. Is Obama sure he wants it voted on or not?

794 garhighway  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:39:45am

re: #790 wozzablog

After hearing that Mitch McConnell asked for unanimous consent to proceed on voting on the bill. Harry Reid blocked it. Will Obama call out Harry Reid by name?

As an addendum to the "China Currency Manipulation" legislation.

Do you mean that NJD was giving us a content-free GOP talking point that, upon further examination, didn't make any sense? I'm shocked.

795 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:40:41am

re: #794 garhighway

Do you mean that NJD was giving us a content-free GOP talking point that, upon further examination, didn't make any sense? I'm shocked.

Video is here.

796 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:41:03am

re: #787 NJDhockeyfan

That's ridiculous.

No, what's ridiculous is supporting a political party despite not having any knowledge of or support for their policies.

797 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:41:12am

re: #770 000G

MSNBC wants OWS to be the left's Tea Party. Why? Because MSNBC wants to be the Fox News of "the Left".

I predict fail.

If you mean fail of MSNBC being comparable to FOX, you are are right. Left they are but blatant liars they are not.

798 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:41:19am

re: #784 NJDhockeyfan

Get him, Mr. President. They hate when you do that.

After hearing that Mitch McConnell asked for unanimous consent to proceed on voting on the bill. Harry Reid blocked it. Will Obama call out Harry Reid by name?

Nope. Deal with it.

Reid's been around the Senate long enough to know a legislative trap when he sees one.

799 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:41:59am

re: #783 garhighway

100% pure pacifists are pretty rare.

Oh, sure. I just like to point out that NJD's bluster is often logically faulty at the most basic level.

800 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:42:54am

re: #793 NJDhockeyfan

Oh boy.

First of all, what Obama is mainly asking for is debate on the bill, not an immediate vote. Remember, the way things used to be before the GOP became radicalized? A bill would be proposed, both parties would debate it, there'd be compromise, and then the final form of the bill would get voted on?

I know it's been awhile since the GOP were honest actors, but you can probably remember it.


Second of all McConnell attached the bill to totally unrelated legislation which the House GOP has already pledged to block. So, even if they voted yes on the Senate bill, it'd die in the house.

Let me know if I"m getting too nuanced for you.

801 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:43:10am

re: #798 makeitstop

After hearing that Mitch McConnell asked for unanimous consent to proceed on voting on the bill. Harry Reid blocked it. Will Obama call out Harry Reid by name?

Nope. Deal with it.

Reid's been around the Senate long enough to know a legislative trap when he sees one.

If they are so confident that the bill is so wonderful why block it?

802 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:43:36am

re: #798 makeitstop

After hearing that Mitch McConnell asked for unanimous consent to proceed on voting on the bill. Harry Reid blocked it. Will Obama call out Harry Reid by name?

Nope. Deal with it.

Reid's been around the Senate long enough to know a legislative trap when he sees one.

I missed that. Could you summarize the rationale?

803 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:43:55am

re: #801 NJDhockeyfan

The bill wasn't brought up for a vote. An amendment was attatched to another bill.

Do you understand this?

804 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:44:26am

re: #800 Obdicut

Oh boy.

First of all, what Obama is mainly asking for is debate on the bill, not an immediate vote. Remember, the way things used to be before the GOP became radicalized? A bill would be proposed, both parties would debate it, there'd be compromise, and then the final form of the bill would get voted on?

I know it's been awhile since the GOP were honest actors, but you can probably remember it.

Second of all McConnell attached the bill to totally unrelated legislation which the House GOP has already pledged to block. So, even if they voted yes on the Senate bill, it'd die in the house.

Let me know if I"m getting too nuanced for you.

Maybe we should just pass the bill and then find out what's in it. Isn't that the Democratic way?

805 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:44:32am

re: #801 NJDhockeyfan

If they are so confident that the bill is so wonderful why block it?

BECAUSE IT WAS ATTACHED TO UNRELATED LEGISLATION.

How hard is that to understand? Obama wants a vote on the jobs bill by itself, not alongside a bill that has nothing to do with jobs.

806 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:44:33am

re: #801 NJDhockeyfan

If they are so confident that the bill is so wonderful why block it?

You can look that up, can't you? :)

807 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:45:37am

re: #805 Lidane

BECAUSE IT WAS ATTACHED TO UNRELATED LEGISLATION.

How hard is that to understand? Obama wants a vote on the jobs bill by itself, not alongside a bill that has nothing to do with jobs.

Pass it anyway! The country needs it!

//

808 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:46:34am

re: #807 NJDhockeyfan

It wouldn't matter if they passed it, since the House has already pledged to block it the bill its attached to.

Do you understand this?

809 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:47:08am

re: #802 Naso Tang

I missed that. Could you summarize the rationale?

Details here.

McConnell tried to get tricky. Reid didn't fall for it. The end.

810 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:47:24am

Right, I think my quota of derpitude has been reached for the day. Later, Lizardim.

811 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:47:27am

Is there anyone on here who disagrees with the statement: NJD is a troll?

There's no honest discussion happening here.

re: #808 Obdicut

It wouldn't matter if they passed it, since the House has already pledged to block it the bill its attached to.

Do you understand this?

Jimmy Carter!

812 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:48:58am

re: #811 iossarian

Is there anyone on here who disagrees with the statement: NJD is a troll?

I got your troll right here!

813 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:49:04am

re: #802 Naso Tang

The idea is that one party will attach legislation to an unrelated bill that they know wont pass in the other chamber - as an effective means of killing the proposed legislation.

Here, the GOP is attaching it to a bill in the Senate they know wouldn't pass in the House. So, they get the Senate Democrats to be in a position that they have to block it from going to a vote on the Senate floor in order to keep the bill viable for consideration down the road (but it can be attached to other legislation likely to pass).

It's a variation of a theme - attach legislation to a bill that the other party doesn't like and force them to vote it down. It's how you can vote against something you actually want (I was against it, before I was for it scenario).

The GOP is using all the procedural rules in the deck of cards to attempt to gain a political advantage, but taxpayers and American citizens aren't benefiting from this. It's not clear that the GOP is benefiting from this either - as polls continue to show that the GOP is losing ground to Democrats.

814 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:49:30am

re: #809 makeitstop

But that's not the end of the story. Or rather, the story's not in those headlines. Reid also offered McConnell several options, including to delay debate on the China currency bill and hold the first test vote on the jobs bill today, but as a stand-alone measure. But of course, that woudn't have given McConnell what he wanted -- either to have Reid obstruct Obama's jobs bill, or for Obama's jobs bill to fail on a bipartisan basis. So he wasn't exactly keen on it. Thus, no vote for Obama's jobs bill today, unless it's on McConnell's terms.

So, in other words, McConnell refused to bring the bill up for a vote.

The only way he wants to bring it up is as an add-on to another piece of legislation that it has nothing to do with.

That sort of thing-- adding laws as amendments to existing bills-- is a practice that the GOP has complained about (while still doing) in the past.

815 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:51:35am

This discussion makes NJD's earlier concern-trolling about OWS (Oh noes it'll make the left look bad!) all the more hilarious.

816 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:51:47am

re: #812 NJDhockeyfan

Do you actually understand what has happened, though?

Reid offered to have the vote on the bill today. McConnell refused; the only way he wants to vote on the bill is as an amendment to a totally unrelated bill.

McConnell refused to let the bill come up for a vote. So, kind of the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

Are you just planning on doing your best to avoid letting this information actually get into your brain?

817 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:52:36am

re: #805 Lidane

BECAUSE IT WAS ATTACHED TO UNRELATED LEGISLATION.

How hard is that to understand? Obama wants a vote on the jobs bill by itself, not alongside a bill that has nothing to do with jobs.

It's how the Republicans think they're winning...poison pill legislation. Sure, we'll let you vote on Jobs, but only if you also approve sainthood for child molesters (and we'll all vote no so we can show our superior moral fiber!)

818 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:53:54am

re: #817 darthstar

They're so far around the corner of 'what's important is winning!' that they can't see out of their own asses without going 3 blocks and taking a left.

819 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:56:17am

re: #818 windsagio

They're so far around the corner of 'what's important is winning!' that they can't see out of their own asses without going 3 blocks and taking a left.

And aside from NASCAR, they never turn left.

820 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:57:24am

re: #816 Obdicut

Do you actually understand what has happened, though?

Even if he did understand it, he'd never admit it.

821 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:58:47am

Wow. After the official "Occupy Wall Street" demands, I'm a assuming one of their readers put out some other demands.

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

12 Demands? This person needs the 12 Steps.

822 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 8:59:18am

re: #816 Obdicut

Are you just planning on doing your best to avoid letting this information actually get into your brain?

That seems to be a feature of the modern Republican party. Who cares about information when you've got your gut feelings to go with?

823 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:00:50am

re: #821 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like the simpler list of demands:

"TAX THE RICH!"

824 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:01:57am

re: #823 windsagio

Crap, their website demands are fantistic in themselves.

One of their demands?

Ending the modern gilded age is our one demand.

At least their specific.

Idiots.

825 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:02:25am

re: #767 NJDhockeyfan

I abhor violence no matter who does it.

Um, how can you hold that position and call yourself a hockey fan?

826 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:02:26am

re: #811 iossarian

Is there anyone on here who disagrees with the statement: NJD is a troll?

There's no honest discussion happening here.

Jimmy Carter!

Honest discussion does not constitute calling disagreement trolling.

827 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:02:29am

Someone needs mommy to give them another cigarette.
re: #821 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


When credit reporting agencies are outlawed, only outlaws will have credit reporting agencies.

828 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:02:53am

re: #811 iossarian

Well, there are trolls and trolls. Personally, I don't really mind trolls. :)

829 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:03:42am

re: #821 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

12 Demands? This person needs the 12 Steps.

LOL!

Here are some of the celebrities who are supporting these idiots:

...In New York, actresses Susan Sarandon and Roseanne Barr have come by, as have rapper Lupe Fiasco and Princeton professor and activist Cornel West.

Here's a interview with Sarandon from the protests:

Former New York governor David Paterson paid a visit, while Yoko Ono and Alec Baldwin voiced their opinion on Twitter. (Yoko's tweet: "I love #OccupyWallStreet As John said, “One hero cannot do it. Each one of us have to be heroes.” And you are. Thank you. love, yoko")

...Public figures like Baldwin tweeted the Twitter handle #OccupyWallStreet:

@stacyherbert: @AlecBaldwin As future Mayor of NYC, any comments on #occupywallstreet? Stiffer penalties for white collar crime!!

I'm sure Alec Baldwin has already quit his Capital One jobs selling credit cards.

830 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:04:43am

re: #825 Jimmi the Grey

Um, how can you hold that position and call yourself a hockey fan?

It's part of the game!

831 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:04:46am

re: #824 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Crap, their website demands are fantistic in themselves.

One of their demands?

At least they're specific.

Idiots.

Embarrassing. Oops.

832 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:04:59am

re: #828 Sergey Romanov

Well, there are trolls and trolls. Personally, I don't really mind trolls. :)

Trolls aren't so bad...and NJD isn't a troll, I don't think. A little bit on the politically retarded side, yes...but not a troll. But hey, we need our teabaggers to remind us what kind of uphill struggle we face.

833 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:05:03am

re: #824 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

the 'specific demands!?!?!' thing is kind of the meme the media has chosen to pursue with the whole 'occupy x' thing.

To be totally honest, I think its kind of a specious objection, its perfectly acceptable to protest against something, and that's what folks are doing.

The 1%er theme will have some good legs I think.

834 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:05:03am

re: #823 windsagio

Eh... How about Eat the Rich?

Particularly if you're a Working Man

835 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:05:52am

re: #832 darthstar

Trolls aren't so bad...and NJD isn't a troll, I don't think. A little bit on the politically retarded side, yes...but not a troll. But hey, we need our teabaggers to remind us what kind of uphill struggle we face.

Walter was a domesticated troll. I miss him ;)

836 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:06:02am

re: #829 NJDhockeyfan

Roseann Barr was for beheading rich folks who wouldn't repent.

I thought she was against the death penalty.

837 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:06:44am

re: #830 NJDhockeyfan

It's part of the game!

I'm well aware it is. But if you abhor ALL violence how do you justify being a fan of a sport in which violence is integral to play?

838 Big Steve  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:06:46am

Well crap the scanning tunneling microscopy inventor did not win the chemistry Nobel today. The discoverer of quasi-crystals won - Daniel Shechtman. He is Israeli by the way but did his work in the US. While I was really hoping an analytical chemist would win, I do have to admit that quasi-crystals are really cool. They are basically crystals where the aggregate crystal follows physical three dimensions but the crystal doesn't have a symmetry with the initial seed crystal. The are sort of the fractals of the chemistry world. Shechtman was hooted out of the place when he proposed these 30 years ago. Now they are actually used, primarily in steel mfg. In fact quasi-crystals are the reason razor blades last so long these days. So us analytical chemists shall have to grumble and wait till next year.

839 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:07:13am

NJD is just one of those aggressively stubborn sorts. Has some anger issues and feels the need to get his message out against what he considers a hostile crowd. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy tho'

840 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:07:17am

re: #821 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wow. After the official "Occupy Wall Street" demands, I'm a assuming one of their readers put out some other demands.

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

12 Demands? This person needs the 12 Steps.

Everybody, employed or unemployed, educated or uneducated, citizen or illegal, should receive $25 an hour except for medical professionals, who should work for free.

841 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:07:53am

re: #839 windsagio

Trolling is in the eye of the beholder.

842 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:08:23am

re: #836 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Roseann Barr was for beheading rich folks who wouldn't repent.

I thought she was against the death penalty.

She's only against the death penalty for people who murder and rape.

Accruing too much money is, however, unforgivable.

843 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:08:25am

re: #841 Sergey Romanov

word I didn't use :p

(well in that post... concern-troll is very different in meaning than normal troll)

844 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:09:00am

That leftist hippie Bernanke on the OWS protests:

845 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:09:28am

re: #826 Naso Tang

Honest discussion does not constitute calling disagreement trolling.

Step 1) NJD brings up talking point: "Mitch McConnell offers vote on jobs bill, Harry Reid blocks it".

Step 2) Multiple posters point out that the vote was tied to a piece of legislation which the House had already promised to block, so effectively would have killed the legislation. Harry Reid counter-offered a separate vote on the jobs bill, but McConnell refused, thus demonstrating that the talking point is bullshit.

Step 3) Instead of acknowledging that his talking point is bullshit, NJD deflects to "lefty celebrities" - the usual Jane Fonda stuff.

I don't mind NJD posting on here, but the pretense that he argues in good faith is just that.

846 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:09:42am

re: #836 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Roseann Barr was for beheading rich folks who wouldn't repent.

I thought she was against the death penalty.

She probably has a Behead the Rich bumper sticker right next to her Every Life is Precious sticker.

847 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:09:49am

re: #842 EmmmieG

She's only against the death penalty for people who murder and rape.

Accruing too much money is, however, unforgivable.

Yeah but she sets the bar pretty high: she's in favor of allowing people to keep their first $100 million.

848 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:10:13am

re: #840 Alouette

Everybody, employed or unemployed, educated or uneducated, citizen or illegal, should receive $25 an hour except for medical professionals, who should work for free.

And while they're at it, they'd like a pony.

They should go research the Smoot-Hawley tariff act and see how that worked out.

849 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:10:44am

re: #841 Sergey Romanov

Trolling is in the eye of the beholder.

..personally I prefer the term "pedantic SOB".

850 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:11:04am

re: #845 iossarian

Meh. Part of LGF fun. ;)

851 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:11:32am

re: #837 Jimmi the Grey

I'm well aware it is. But if you abhor ALL violence how do you justify being a fan of a sport in which violence is integral to play?

No, I abhor violence by idiots who try to hurt or kill innocent people and smash property that isn't theirs.

Sports is different, but you knew that.

852 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:11:40am

re: #840 Alouette

Everybody, employed or unemployed, educated or uneducated, citizen or illegal, should receive $25 an hour except for medical professionals, who should work for free.

It's all about fairness, Alouette. All about fairness.

853 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:12:02am

re: #842 EmmmieG

She's only against the death penalty for people who murder and rape.

Accruing too much money is, however, unforgivable.

LOL!

854 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:12:27am

re: #845 iossarian

yeah, but just call bullshit. There are real, more subtle, trolls lurking and we shouldn't cry wolf.

855 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:12:30am

re: #851 NJDhockeyfan

Yeah, I did. The 'strait faced comedian' in me just hadda though...

856 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:13:21am

re: #847 Alouette

I am guessing she arrived at that number by being worth a little less than a hundred million.

857 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:13:41am

re: #850 Sergey Romanov

Meh. Part of LGF fun. ;)

Oh, I agree, and I don't like to see people banned. I was honestly disappointed when Mandy got kicked out, and I used to enjoy Walter's presence too.

Equally, it's reasonable to point out that some people don't argue in good faith or, indeed, have a fact-based view of the world. I think of the Republican voters on here, only Dark Falcon comes close to that, and he's halfway to being a liberal at this point :)

858 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:13:45am

re: #844 Lidane

That leftist hippie Bernanke on the OWS protests:

[Video]

Alex Jones will use that as proof that OWS is orchestrated by the Fed. If he hasn't already.

859 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:13:50am

re: #839 windsagio

NJD is just one of those aggressively stubborn sorts. Has some anger issues and feels the need to get his message out against what he considers a hostile crowd. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy tho'

I am on my second day of quitting smoking.

Piss off.

860 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:13:52am

its fun to see people take their masks off, lol.

Also amazing to see the official anti-protest tropes take over.

"THEY'RE DEMANDING TOO MUCH!" (hurr hurr I bet they want everybody to make $25 an hour on unemployment!)
"EVIL HOLLYWOOD TYPES ARE SUCH HYPOCRITES!" (not sure how this even relates, but it sure as shootin' always comes up.)

Oh I forgot the
"PROTESTERS ARE VIOLENT (union?!?!) THUGS WHO WANT TO DESTROY AND LOOT!" "AND THEY"RE PROBABLY MARXISTS AND ANARCHISTS!"

861 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:13:58am

re: #851 NJDhockeyfan

No, I abhor violence by idiots who try to hurt or kill innocent people and smash property that isn't theirs.

Sports is different, but you knew that.

If football players, or hockey players, or rugby players were in the habit of tackling or punching random people on the street, that would not be okay. The other players volunteered to be out there in the belief that they would be able to give as good as they got.

862 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:14:17am

re: #859 NJDhockeyfan

you were like that before tho', I honestly can't tell any difference in the way you're acting :D

863 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:14:23am

re: #845 iossarian

I don't mind NJD posting on here, but the pretense that he argues in good faith is just that.

Well. Since you don't mind, I guess it's okay.

864 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:15:12am

re: #862 windsagio

you were like that before tho', I honestly can't tell any difference in the way you're acting :D

You don't pay attention then.

865 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:15:20am

re: #840 Alouette

This one is a hoot:

One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

NYC, Boston, SF, and DC would all be returned to wetlands (since much of those cities are built on reclaimed wetlands).

Actually, returning DC to wetlands isn't such a bad idea. /

Decommissioning all nuclear power plants? That's just pie in the sky wishful thinking that can't be done unless some new power source can provide 24/7/365 power generation on the same size footprint. Solar, wind, and geothermal can't do it. Hydropower could, but they're opposed to that too.

Free college education? I'm all for that. How do you pay for the professors and academic institutions though.

Trillion dollars on infrastructure upgrades/improvement - not sure about the dollar amount, but infrastructure upgrades/improvements would not only be a jobs motivator, but would have long lasting effect on economy decades down the line (think canals in late 18th century, railroad construction during 19th century, highways/electrification in 20th).

A whole lot of the infrastructure built at the turn of the last century needs to be replaced/upgraded/maintained in the current century. That's a whole lot of jobs.

Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Laws are already on the books for that - but better enforcement would go a long way.

866 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:16:55am

re: #859 NJDhockeyfan

I am on my second day of quitting smoking.

Piss off.

I'm on day 3 of my 2nd week. Feel ya man. We can be stronger than the urge though...I gotta believe that.

867 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:17:15am

re: #865 lawhawk

the problem with that list, to be honest is its about the wrong thing.

The demands should be about business fiscal reform and the absurd wealth/power gap, not environmental things.

Whats that list from anyways? (like somebody got a link?)

868 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:17:34am

re: #865 lawhawk

That's just pie in the sky wishful thinking that can't be done unless some new power source can provide 24/7/365 power generation on the same size footprint.

How do you mean? Flowa powa, dood!

/sorry

869 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:17:39am

re: #865 lawhawk

Free college education? I'm all for that. How do you pay for the professors and academic institutions though.

College education is essentially free in several European countries, and it used to be essentially free in (parts of) the US as well. It's definitely possible via state support.

Trillion dollars on infrastructure upgrades/improvement - not sure about the dollar amount, but infrastructure upgrades/improvements would not only be a jobs motivator, but would have long lasting effect on economy decades down the line (think canals in late 18th century, railroad construction during 19th century, highways/electrification in 20th).

A whole lot of the infrastructure built at the turn of the last century needs to be replaced/upgraded/maintained in the current century. That's a whole lot of jobs.

So what we're saying is: some of the demands are reasonable, and some are not.

870 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:17:55am

re: #865 lawhawk

I was in DC in June. My opinion is now that if you want to return DC to wetlands, all you have to do is turn off the de-humidifiers, and nature will take over.

871 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:18:12am

NJD is not a troll. He disagrees with many posters here, as I do.

Does not make him a troll.

Also? I've had lunch with him before. He's dreamy.

I say that in a manly way, of course.

872 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:18:22am

re: #864 NJDhockeyfan

I think you're just mad people've got you pegged :p

The talking point>get called>standard rightie meme>get called>get pisst>leave for the day pattern isn't remotely new for you (as others have mentioned)

873 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:18:42am

re: #866 Jimmi the Grey

I'm on day 3 of my 2nd week. Feel ya man. We can be stronger than the urge though...I gotta believe that.

Thanks. I drove around town and it looked like everyone in their car was smoking. At a customer's house he sat there and chain-smoked. It was a rough day.

874 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:19:13am

i am outta here.............

(for the afternoon)

875 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:19:20am

re: #869 iossarian

College education is essentially free in several European countries, and it used to be essentially free in (parts of) the US as well. It's definitely possible via state support.

So what we're saying is: some of the demands are reasonable, and some are not.

No, no, paying everyone $20 an hour (even if unemployed) out of our big magic pot of money is very reasonable.

876 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:19:48am

re: #867 windsagio

the problem with that list, to be honest is its about the wrong thing.

The demands should be about business fiscal reform and the absurd wealth/power gap, not environmental things.

Whats that list from anyways? (like somebody got a link?)

[Link: occupywallst.org...]

There's the link. It is below the official list of demands. Some guy wrote it out; not sure if he's affiliated with anyone but the "Make Pluto a Planet Again!" Party.

877 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:20:21am

re: #872 windsagio

I think you're just mad people've got you pegged :p

The talking point>get called>standard rightie meme>get called>get pisst>leave for the day pattern isn't remotely new for you (as others have mentioned)

Typical liberal mish mash.

878 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:20:36am

re: #875 EmmmieG

No, no, paying everyone $20 an hour (even if unemployed) out of our big magic pot of money is very reasonable.

The same big magic pot of money that pays for the college, silly.

879 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:21:02am

re: #871 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I do think NJD sometimes acts just to get a rise out of the lefties. Which is trolling. But hey, what's wrong with that, now and then? It's not like we don't return the favor ;)

880 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:21:03am

re: #875 EmmmieG

No, no, paying everyone $20 an hour (even if unemployed) out of our big magic pot of money is very reasonable.

I'm not sure what your point is: some of the demands are reasonable, and would in fact be hugely beneficial for the US as a whole, and some are not.

881 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:21:08am

Gotta go to work.

Thanks for putting up with me. I am craving a cig. Wish me luck today!

882 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:21:45am

re: #881 NJDhockeyfan

Gotta go to work.

Thanks for putting up with me. I am craving a cig. Wish me luck today!

Good luck being healthy. You're doing the right thing.

883 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:21:52am

Hitler is told there is no iPhone 5.

884 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:22:20am

re: #881 NJDhockeyfan

Gotta go to work.

Thanks for putting up with me. I am craving a cig. Wish me luck today!

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

885 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:23:12am

re: #877 NJDhockeyfan

That was funny, right there.

886 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:23:17am

re: #881 NJDhockeyfan

Gotta go to work.

Thanks for putting up with me. I am craving a cig. Wish me luck today!

I'll go without if you do! Ok, even if you don't, but figured this was a good use of peer pressure. ;)

887 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:23:37am

re: #859 NJDhockeyfan

I am on my second day of quitting smoking.

Piss off.

Mom cut you off?

888 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:23:54am

re: #876 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

thx for the link. Gotta say I immediately thought 'they're making fun of the media but what are your demands?!' thing in reading the way they phrased that (our one demand...)

and yeah, thats what the disclaimer says too >>

Emmie, is there a source for your $20/$25 thing, or is it just a rhetorical device too?

889 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:24:40am

re: #877 NJDhockeyfan

be glad I didn't call you on your 'I JUST QUIT SMOKING!' sympathy dodge :p

...

whoops.

890 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:25:46am

re: #880 iossarian

I'm not sure what your point is: some of the demands are reasonable, and would in fact be hugely beneficial for the US as a whole, and some are not.

My point is that some of the demands show a complete lack of the laws of economics.

I checked out a sci-fi book once, and never made it past page one. The first strike was that the book had mankind evolving to a form without opposable thumbs. The second was the idea that nobody had to work anymore, you could just live off of a comfy government pension.

I expect my sci fi books to break the laws of physics, and possible to include non-existent aliens. Since you are breaking these, though, I expect both human nature and the laws of economics to remain intact.

The $20 an hour minimum wage is sci-fi economics.

891 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:26:26am

re: #888 windsagio

thx for the link. Gotta say I immediately thought 'they're making fun of the media but what are your demands?!' thing in reading the way they phrased that (our one demand...)

and yeah, thats what the disclaimer says too >>

Emmie, is there a source for your $20/$25 thing, or is it just a rhetorical device too?

I pulled it out of the list of demands.

892 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:27:59am

re: #891 EmmmieG

I ask because I just searched over and over for that, and... its not there.

They like term 'living wage' a lot, but no sign of a number that I can find... let alone one that high.

893 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:28:51am

oh found it lol. Sorry >

Sometimes you can look right at something and not see it.

894 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:29:07am

re: #888 windsagio

Emmie, is there a source for your $20/$25 thing, or is it just a rhetorical device too?

It was in the 12 Demands I listed above.

20.00 minimum wage.
Living wage for every person whether they're employed or not.

Wasn't a bit rhetorical.

Good luck convincing me that these people aren't idiots...

Especially since I have to leave for work now. No, I'm not doing a "Brave Sir Robin". I have to go to work. Somebody's gotta pay for something.

895 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:29:13am

re: #892 windsagio

I ask because I just searched over and over for that, and... its not there.

They like term 'living wage' a lot, but no sign of a number that I can find... let alone one that high.

#821, demand one

896 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:29:22am

Question to the Econ peeps.

Would it be feasible to tax capital gains on domestic investment less than on other investments? Get an incentive to invest in the USA again instead of in foreign markets?

897 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:29:57am

re: #888 windsagio

thx for the link. Gotta say I immediately thought 'they're making fun of the media but what are your demands?!' thing in reading the way they phrased that (our one demand...)

and yeah, thats what the disclaimer says too >>

Emmie, is there a source for your $20/$25 thing, or is it just a rhetorical device too?

If a demand doesn't fit on a demonstrator's sign, or in a tweet, ignore it.

898 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:31:06am

re: #892 windsagio

They like term 'living wage' a lot, but no sign of a number that I can find... let alone one that high.

Enough for Pot and Doritos.

899 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:31:19am

re: #897 Naso Tang

Well, and I say this in complete seriousness, if you want people to remember something, make it catchy.

900 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:31:33am

re: #896 Jimmi the Grey

Question to the Econ peeps.

Would it be feasible to tax capital gains on domestic investment less than on other investments? Get an incentive to invest in the USA again instead of in foreign markets?

To the best of my understanding, foreign profit isn't taxed in the USA.

901 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:32:27am

re: #892 windsagio

I ask because I just searched over and over for that, and... its not there.

They like term 'living wage' a lot, but no sign of a number that I can find... let alone one that high.

Demand One: Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

This is just some guy's made up list of 12 Demands, it hasn't been officially adopted.

902 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:32:57am

re: #899 EmmmieG

Well, and I say this in complete seriousness, if you want people to remember something, make it catchy.

"pass this bill now"?

903 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:33:32am

re: #897 Naso Tang

feisty!

So having read all the way through that link, that guys a nutter for sure, not sure its fair to paper the entire movement as crazy nuts just based on that one guy. In the thread, 3 people kind of agree and then it gets into a whole discussion about how those demands are useless :p

904 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:35:12am

re: #901 Alouette

interesting thing is the ones at the top aren't official demands either, lol.

Note: Our use of the one demand is a rhetorical device. This is NOT an official list of demands. Click Here to learn more about how you can participate in the democratic process of choosing the "one demand".

slightly off, but... I understand what they're trying to do, but that General Assembly thing is such a bad idea.

905 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:35:14am

re: #903 windsagio

feisty!

So having read all the way through that link, that guys a nutter for sure, not sure its fair to paper the entire movement as crazy nuts just based on that one guy. In the thread, 3 people kind of agree and then it gets into a whole discussion about how those demands are useless :p

I would be interested to know why they think they are useless. Not enough to go and look, but interested. (Yes, I'm being lazy right now. I used up my non-lazy on the dishes and the laundry.)

906 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:35:56am

re: #894 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It was in the 12 Demands I listed above.

20.00 minimum wage.
Living wage for every person whether they're employed or not.

That's just one person's 12 demands though...the OWS groups are still fairly scattered across the demographic map...there are the college educated people who want regulations on Wall Street to protect the economy from their unscrupulous behavior, there are the anti-Semites NJD is only too happy to point to to dismiss the whole thing altogether, there are the young "anarchists" who always show up to throw garbage cans around and get camera time, there are tinfoil conservatives who think it's all a big conspiracy run by Sharia Obama...you name it. Any time a movement gets a little bit of media attention, all the freaks come out. Just look at the Tea Party. This is America. Let Freakdom ring.

907 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:36:07am

re: #859 NJDhockeyfan

I am on my second day of quitting smoking.

Piss off.

Woohoo you're going for it!!

Good job man. During theses first horrible days remember, sleep is your friend.

908 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:36:11am

re: #901 Alouette

Demand One: Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

This is just some guy's made up list of 12 Demands, it hasn't been officially adopted.

But but but EL RUSHBO SAID SO!

909 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:36:47am

re: #901 Alouette

Demand One: Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

This is just some guy's made up list of 12 Demands, it hasn't been officially adopted.

Yep...I was writing the same thing when you posted.

910 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:37:34am

re: #871 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He never, ever, responds in any meaningful way no matter how much time and trouble I take to write out posts to him. He never appears to absorb any information whatsoever, actually.

It's not so much what he disagrees with, but what he just ignores that's irritating and sad.

911 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:38:29am

re: #905 EmmmieG

basically to long and complex, the next guy basically is saying they need a slogan not a complex list of demands.

Also calls out point 3 for being too far (that's the 'living wage regardless of employment one').

so then it goes into 2 strands: The first is;

So, if your plausible promise/demand/brand is "Economic Democracy, Now"
in example, you could easily have some of the specific implementations be:
Removal of corporate personhood.
Public financing of political campaigns.
Reinstatement of stiff financial regulations such as Glass-Steagall
Restore the issuance of currency to the congress.
Etc.

the second is a strong strain of 'the real issue is campaign finance reform!'

912 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:39:01am

re: #909 darthstar

For an actually achievable goal, I'd love to see them agitate for an investigation into the Koch's sales to Iran.

That might actually go somewhere, and it really does cut to the heart of the corporate privilege they're protesting against.

913 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:39:07am

re: #821 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

12 demands are too complicated. Whittle it down to one or 2.

How about.

1. Prosecute wrongdoers.
2. Regulators, do your jobs!!!!

914 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:39:17am

re: #900 Naso Tang

To the best of my understanding, foreign profit isn't taxed in the USA.

So, as a citizen and resident of the USA I invest my money in an Indonesian company and any profits from that are not taxed by my government? Huh, I gotta think on that one...I get the 'double taxed' thing as it will also be taxed by the foreign government, but not sure if I think it's fair.

Sorry if I sound ignorant, but I'm a product of rural public schools in the Reagan years and had to self-teach critical thinking as an adult...been a rough ride.

915 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:39:47am

re: #903 windsagio

At this point I see a serious expression of dissatisfaction that anyone other than Fox News or the Tea Party can understand at a basic level. I doubt it can find its own leadership to become a party, but it could find a voice in Washington, if any there have the guts to do so.

916 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:41:31am

re: #915 Naso Tang

Less guts, more brains, please.

917 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:44:08am

re: #161 jaunte

Stephen Colbert

If we renamed America "New Jersey" Chris Christie would HAVE to govern us.

South Park is way ahead of Colbert ;)

918 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:44:38am

Was thinking of stopping by the PDX occupy even this Thurs with WUB actually. Couldn't really stay, but it'd be worth at least partially being part of.

Unfortunately, per the AM news, they decided they weren't gonna get police permits, and I don't wanna get arrested, if not worse.

919 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:45:06am

re: #917 Amory Blaine

South Park is way ahead of Colbert ;)

speaking of that, new SP tonight!

920 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:45:12am

re: #914 Jimmi the Grey

So, as a citizen and resident of the USA I inv