Thune: “No Tax Increase” Pledges Are Meaningless

Bread and circuses, sans bread
Politics • Views: 36,091

Sen. John Thune confirmed the obvious today; you know those Republican pledges not to increase taxes that all the presidential candidates have signed? They’re worthless: Sen. John Thune: Tax pledges can be broken.

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) said Wednesday that members of Congress shouldn’t be “bound by” taxpayer pledges, and suggested that such vows would need to be broken in order to achieve broad-based tax reform.

Thune told MSNBC’s Chuck Todd that pledges stood in the way of tax reform.

“We shouldn’t be bound by something that could be interpreted different ways if what we’re trying to accomplish is broad-based tax reform,” Thune said. “I think broad-based tax reform ought to be part of our agenda up here. I hope that outside groups that have pledges in the past will recognize that. It’s important that we do something on tax reform.”

Thune, himself a signatory of Grover Norquist’s Americans for Tax Reform pledge to not increase taxes, suggested that those who signed taxpayer pledges should rethink their worth.

Nothing but meaningless pandering to the right wing base; they all know they’ll be breaking their “pledges” as soon as they’re elected.

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157 comments
1 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:17:29am

But the anti-sharia pledges are set in stone right? And the attack on women's rights pledges? Those are safe?

//

2 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:17:39am

I feel like they already kind of spiritually broke the pledge by going against the payroll tax cut.

3 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:18:21am

re: #2 Obdicut

I feel like they already kind of spiritually broke the pledge by going against the payroll tax cut.

No new taxes*.

* on rich people

4 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:18:42am

Did they pinky swear?

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:19:48am

A general history of how a candidate has behaved in the past is usually more useful.

6 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:20:37am

Republicans are so cute when they try to sound reasonable. Expect an apology to Norquist in 3..2..1..

7 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:21:03am

re: #6 darthstar

He'll be called a RINO in 3...2..1..

8 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:23:30am

re: #7 lawhawk

He'll be called a RINO in 3...2..1..

1. Say something reasonable.
2. Get called a RINO.
3. Walk it back.
4. Profit!

9 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:28:44am

Louie Gomert (R-tard) tries a little threat for the SCOTUS to consider regarding the Affordable Care Act.

Fucking douchebag.

10 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:30:36am

Live (to photos) from Zuccotti Park - the ongoing protests.

No signs of anti-Semitic or racist mumbo jumbo. Just a whole lot of organizing and activity. Not much in the way of actual protests when I was there during the lunch hour, but there were plenty of posters laid out for viewing and the general theme was one of need for reform of the system.

There were a couple End the Fed type posters, and the "we are the 99%" type sentiment seems to have been a rallying point.

A whole lot more activity and energy than the last two weeks. The good weather and the fact that the unions were getting into supporting the protesters has given this new life.

11 BishopX  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:34:00am

re: #2 Obdicut

I feel like they already kind of spiritually broke the pledge by going against the payroll tax cut.

You see, the payroll tax cut was temporary which meant that at some point in time taxes would increase. So republicans weren't voting against a tax cut, they were instead voting against a tax increase!

/Must I?

12 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:35:03am

The no-tax-increase pledges are just as meaningless as the budgets that were presented to the CBO in order to get ObamaCare passed. These were 10 year budgets that future congresses are not bound to in any way. And all of the supposed "savings" in OC relied on the 10 year projections, not the near term. Talk about dishonest.

13 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:35:38am
14 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:37:41am

re: #13 darthstar

Boo! /only because I can't get there to ski...

15 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:37:55am

re: #12 chunkymonkey

The no-tax-increase pledges are just as meaningless as the budgets that were presented to the CBO in order to get ObamaCare passed. These were 10 year budgets that future congresses are not bound to in any way. And all of the supposed "savings" in OC relied on the 10 year projections, not the near term. Talk about dishonest.

"Deflector Shields, full power!"

16 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:38:07am

I made it all the way to work without stopping by the store for a pack of cigs. I did, however, find time to pick up a Big Mac meal on the way here.

:)

17 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:40:02am

re: #10 lawhawk

Live (to photos) from Zuccotti Park - the ongoing protests.

No signs of anti-Semitic or racist mumbo jumbo. Just a whole lot of organizing and activity. Not much in the way of actual protests when I was there during the lunch hour, but there were plenty of posters laid out for viewing and the general theme was one of need for reform of the system.

There were a couple End the Fed type posters, and the "we are the 99%" type sentiment seems to have been a rallying point.

A whole lot more activity and energy than the last two weeks. The good weather and the fact that the unions were getting into supporting the protesters has given this new life.

Some nice New World Order nuts....
Image: IMAG0213.jpg

18 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:40:18am

The Magical Balance Fairy showed up right away today.

19 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:41:02am

Anti american pledge signers should be thrown out of office.

20 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:41:13am

re: #15 oaktree

"Deflector Shields, full power!"

Heck yeah! Where's the fun in a morning of yes-manning each other?

21 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:41:36am

re: #18 Charles

The Magical Balance Fairy showed up right away today.

Magical balance monkey, if you please.

22 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:42:13am

re: #12 chunkymonkey

The no-tax-increase pledges are just as meaningless as the budgets that were presented to the CBO in order to get ObamaCare passed. These were 10 year budgets that future congresses are not bound to in any way. And all of the supposed "savings" in OC relied on the 10 year projections, not the near term. Talk about dishonest.

Now explain to me the Paul Ryan plan. What is the CBO rating on that? How far out does that project?

23 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:42:20am

re: #18 Charles

The Magical Balance Fairy showed up right away today.

You'd think the poor gal would get a spa day or the occasional trip to the Bahamas for all the work she does.

She must not have a union or any bargaining rights with the boss or something.

24 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:43:38am

They are stupid. I expect Thune to be called a RINO, Marxist, or some crap like it for calling these what they are. Grover Norquist lives in a fantasy world where society can function with no taxes. The candidates who sign his idiotic pledges are morons.

25 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:43:38am

re: #10 lawhawk

I'm really glad to hear that. I saw that Angry Black Lady may be trying to get some voter registration stuff going on, which is definitively something I can get behind.

[Link: www.angryblacklady.com...]

26 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:44:01am

re: #12 chunkymonkey

You got real boring real fast.

27 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:44:54am

re: #23 Lidane

You'd think the poor gal would get a spa day or the occasional trip to the Bahamas for all the work she does.

She must not have a union or any bargaining rights with the boss or something.

Why do you assume the MBF is female? Are you sexist or homophobic?

28 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:44:58am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Can't see that photo. Might bring one of my other cameras tomorrow to cover things (including some video) and to take a walk over to Wall Street itself to see how things are progressing there (if at all).

Yet, while things are confined to Zuccotti Park, there's little sign that a protest is ongoing on the other side of the street. You wouldn't know that a protest is going on if you're more than a block away.

29 Abdul Abulbul Amir  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:45:57am

What is the Magical Balance Fairy?

30 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:46:51am

re: #25 Obdicut

I'm really glad to hear that. I saw that Angry Black Lady may be trying to get some voter registration stuff going on, which is definitively something I can get behind.

[Link: www.angryblacklady.com...]

Wait--are there seriously people at this protest not registered to vote? Also, wouldn't they have to be residents of the state of New York?

31 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:46:57am

re: #28 lawhawk

Can't see that photo. Might bring one of my other cameras tomorrow to cover things (including some video) and to take a walk over to Wall Street itself to see how things are progressing there (if at all).

Yet, while things are confined to Zuccotti Park, there's little sign that a protest is ongoing on the other side of the street. You wouldn't know that a protest is going on if you're more than a block away.

Damn, Direct link won;t work. It's the 4th pic down on your post.
"Bilderberg + Trilateral + C.F.R = NWO"

32 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:47:08am

re: #29 Abdul Abulbul Amir

What is the Magical Balance Fairy?

It's like a sleeper with obvious insecurities. And good morning.

33 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:47:16am

re: #26 Obdicut

You got real boring real fast.

Well, you were boring to begin with, so we're even.

34 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:48:34am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Some nice New World Order nuts...
Image: IMAG0213.jpg

I see a Bildenberg + Trilateral + C.F.R = N.W.O. sign.

Heh.

35 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:48:46am

re: #33 chunkymonkey

Well, you were boring to begin with, so we're even.

Ah, the "I'm rubber and you're glue" retort...brilliant!

36 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:49:15am

re: #27 Alouette

Why do you assume the MBF is female? Are you sexist or homophobic?

Nah. I just figure that the MBF wears something like this. ;)

37 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:49:37am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Damn, Direct link won;t work. It's the 4th pic down on your post.
"Bilderberg + Trilateral + C.F.R = NWO"

You type faster than me.

38 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:50:05am

re: #34 NJDhockeyfan

I see a Bildenberg + Trilateral + C.F.R = N.W.O. sign.

Heh.

So the Luap Nor/Alex Jones wing is there, then.

39 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:50:16am

re: #27 Alouette

Why do you assume the MBF is female? Are you sexist or homophobic?

Indeed.

Magical Balance Monkey

40 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:50:59am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Damn, Direct link won;t work. It's the 4th pic down on your post.
"Bilderberg + Trilateral + C.F.R = NWO"

Ironic, given that Alex Jones has condemned the protests as an "inside job". Guess his supporters didn't get the memo :P

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:51:21am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But the anti-sharia pledges are set in stone right? And the attack on women's rights pledges? Those are safe?

//

That don't cost much, so yeah, they'll hold by it.

42 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:51:57am

re: #39 wrenchwench

Indeed.

Magical Balance Monkey

A cultural crossing of ballet and sumo... that is scary to even think about. But would have the eye-attracting property of a train wreck as well I think.

43 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:52:09am

re: #38 Lidane

So the Luap Nor/Alex Jones wing is there, then.

Yeah, they have most of the end the fed signs. There's always been a lot of crossover appeal and the involvement of Anonymous along with the general theme of finance means the paulians will be there in droves.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:52:51am

re: #12 chunkymonkey

The no-tax-increase pledges are just as meaningless as the budgets that were presented to the CBO in order to get ObamaCare passed. These were 10 year budgets that future congresses are not bound to in any way. And all of the supposed "savings" in OC relied on the 10 year projections, not the near term. Talk about dishonest.

So, based on this evidence you present of mutual pathological dishonesty in both major parties, who would you suggest I should vote for?

45 andres  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:53:07am

re: #12 chunkymonkey

The no-tax-increase pledges are just as meaningless as the budgets that were presented to the CBO in order to get ObamaCare passed. These were 10 year budgets that future congresses are not bound to in any way. And all of the supposed "savings" in OC relied on the 10 year projections, not the near term. Talk about dishonest.

1) No such thing as Obamacare. There's the Affordable Care Act, but it's not Obamacare.

2) Paul Ryan's slash and burn plan depends on 20 year projections, and many fairies doing some hard work.

46 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:53:24am

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

So, based on this evidence you present of mutual pathological dishonesty in both major parties, who would you suggest I should vote for?

Heh. Let me guess.

47 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:53:45am

OT:

I heard about this on the way in to work.

Last I heard he was still on the loose. Any updates?

Two dead, six wounded in California shooting: police

(Reuters) - Two people were killed and at least six others wounded in a shooting on Wednesday at a Northern California cement plant and quarry, authorities said.

A 45-year-old male suspect in the shooting was still at large, Santa Clara County sheriff's office Sergeant Jose Cardoza said, speaking to reporters in a briefing broadcast on local television.

Television images showed police searching a neighborhood for the man, identified by Cardoza as Shareef Allman.

48 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:54:25am

More deflection.

49 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:54:41am

re: #12 chunkymonkey

So close, yet so far. Yes - the CBO scoring is consistently gamed by Congress to suit its needs (I've repeatedly noted as much).

It's why the Bush tax cuts (2001 and 2003 tax acts) had a sunset date after tax year 2010 where the pre-2001 rates were reinstituted. That was all to enable a "balanced" CBO scoring because the CBO assumes that Congress wont change tax policy in the intervening years. That includes adjusting the AMT threshhold or deciding to extend the Bush tax cuts into 2013 (as the deal earlier this year did). All those throw the CBO analysis off.

It's a limit to the utility of the CBO analysis, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have use.

The CBO can score competing plans proffered in the same year to see their relative merits based on the law as in effect at the time the CBO scores.

As far as the HCR package, the saving was backloaded - if only because the enactment dates for various provisions were phased in. The changes didn't come all at once, and tax provisions were kicking in ahead of the program changes to help fund them down the road.

Thus far, there have been no repeals or modifications to the HCR package other than to a w-2 requirement. The GOP is agitating for a full repeal, but that may end up being more costly than keeping things as they are (with the phasing in of various provisions).

50 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:54:46am

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

So, based on this evidence you present of mutual pathological dishonesty in both major parties, who would you suggest I should vote for?

Paul/Kucinich 2012!

51 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:54:58am

re: #46 Charles

Heh. Let me guess.

Charles Manson, but only if Bachmann doesn't get the nomination.

52 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:55:23am

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

Paul/Kucinich 2012!

This Universe has enough black holes as it is.

53 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:55:30am

re: #46 Charles

Heh. Let me guess.

9 - 9 - 9 ! ! !

54 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:56:11am

re: #52 Sergey Romanov

This Universe has enough black holes as it is.

Black holes are an inside job!

/Alex Jones

55 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:56:53am

re: #52 Sergey Romanov

This Universe has enough black holes as it is.

Dennis Kucinich will find them through his UFO contacts.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:57:50am

re: #30 EmmmieG

Wait--are there seriously people at this protest not registered to vote? Also, wouldn't they have to be residents of the state of New York?

Lots of them probably are, and yes, there are probably people at the protest who aren't registered to vote.

Unfortunately, it's easier to register them than to actually get them to vote--or for that matter, to get them to vote and not vote for quirky novelty candidates.

57 brennant  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:57:56am

re: #54 Lidane

Black holes are an inside job!

/Alex Jones

/

58 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:58:13am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Gotcha, you're referring to one of my photos. I think that was the only one of those kind of NWO slogans there. Could have missed others - but they keep changing the stuff they present so it could be quite different the next day.

They've got people painting art and drawing posters, including one large sign calling for an end to the Fed Reserve.

59 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:58:15am

re: #55 NJDhockeyfan

Dennis Kucinich will find them through his UFO contacts.

Avatar 2: Enter Kucinich.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:58:23am

re: #36 Lidane

Nah. I just figure that the MBF wears something like this. ;)

You think a man couldn't rock that?

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:01:15am

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

I heard about this on the way in to work.

Last I heard he was still on the loose. Any updates?

Two dead, six wounded in California shooting: police

No, seems he's still at large.

Damnit.

There was a murder across the street from my mom's work this week. Middle-aged man stabbed his elderly parents, (his mother has died, father is in the hospital), and was shot by the cops at the scene.

It's a lovely, quiet little neighborhood.

You never know what the hell is going on in other people's houses. Or heads.

62 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:01:29am

re: #52 Sergey Romanov

Let him have his quantum of solace. /

63 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:02:06am
64 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:02:09am

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

You think a man couldn't rock that?

Hmm, maybe. I've known a few that could.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:02:10am

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

Paul/Kucinich 2012!

If I throw up in the voting booth in the lobby of the Chinese Bible Truth Church, the church ladies are going to be hacked.

66 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:03:40am

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

You heard it, folks. SFZ plans to hack the vote.

Judeo-liberal conspiracy, obviously.

67 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:04:52am

re: #39 wrenchwench

Indeed.

Magical Balance Monkey

You're racist.

68 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:05:50am

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Chicago Traders Respond To Protesters With Signs Reading ‘We Are The 1%’

Keep it up assholes.

Meanwhile...Income graph

Envy much? Who the hell cares?

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:06:09am

re: #39 wrenchwench

Indeed.

Magical Balance Monkey

That guy's got balls. I can tell you that both because the tutu is brief enough that indeed, we can be sure, and also because, well, he's wearing that tutu!!

70 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:06:51am

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

I heard about this on the way in to work.

Last I heard he was still on the loose. Any updates?

Two dead, six wounded in California shooting: police

In pages. The suspect, one Shareef Allman, is a Teamsters union rep and producer of a TV show on what appears to be local access TV. The quarry was his day job. There is a clip of him interviewing Jesse Jackson a while back.
Expect wingnut heads to explode over this one.

71 Jimmi the Grey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:07:07am

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Occupy Main St This just hit my FB newsfeed. Enjoy.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:07:15am

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Chicago Traders Respond To Protesters With Signs Reading ‘We Are The 1%’

Keep it up assholes.

Meanwhile...Income graph

The Wall Street workers have responded to this with more humor than I would have figured they possessed. Between this and the zombie outfits.

73 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:07:31am

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

That guy's got balls. I can tell you that both because the tutu is brief enough that indeed, we can be sure, and also because, well, he's wearing that tutu!!

I have never worn or been drunk near a tutu.

74 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:07:38am

re: #68 chunkymonkey

Envy much? Who the hell cares?

I care that people in my income bracket are now working longer hours and have made great strides in productivity, but are not being paid any more than we were thirty years ago. Seems like a raw deal.

75 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:08:34am

re: #73 NJDhockeyfan

I have never worn or been drunk near a tutu.

that you will admit.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:08:36am

re: #68 chunkymonkey

Envy much? Who the hell cares?

I wouldn't give a damn...if one parent working a factory job still gave the American family enough income to feed everyone and buy a house and a car.

77 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:08:44am

re: #74 iossarian

I care that people in my income bracket are now working longer hours and have made great strides in productivity, but are not being paid any more than we were thirty years ago. Seems like a raw deal.

I am making 1/3 less now than I was making 10 years ago.

78 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:09:37am

re: #74 iossarian

I care that people in my income bracket are now working longer hours and have made great strides in productivity, but are not being paid any more than we were thirty years ago. Seems like a raw deal.

There is the name of your GOP policy!

Roosevelt (Teddy) offered the "Square Deal".

Roosevelt (F.D.) offered the "New Deal".

The Gop offers up the "Raw Deal".

Progressive politics all the way!

79 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:10:26am

re: #67 chunkymonkey

You're racist.

You're, ummm... weightist. Or something.

80 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:10:32am

Troofers spotted in the OWS crowd.

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:10:53am

re: #79 wrenchwench

You're, ummm... weightist. Or something.

I think it's "sizeist"

82 zora  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:10:57am

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

RON PAUL!

83 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:11:51am

re: #68 chunkymonkey

Envy much? Who the hell cares?

Yeah, because when an executive gets an 80 million dollar severance package when he gets fired over ethics violations, its because he's done so much to earn it.

90 Percent Of Corporations Think Their Executives Deserve Above-Median Pay, Driving Income Inequality

There are several factors driving this income inequality — including preferential treatment of investment income, weak estate taxes, and stagnant middle-class wages — but one of the problems is that executive pay has jumped by leaps and bounds, far outstripping the income made by workers. CEOs at America’s largest companies now earn 343 times more than the typical worker. In 1970, the average CEO earned 28 times as much as the typical worker. As the Washington Post noted today, this increase occurred at the same time that worker pay was actually falling, in inflation adjusted dollars:

The gap between what workers and top executives make helps explain why income inequality in the United States is reaching levels unseen since the Great Depression.

Since the 1970s, median pay for executives at the nation’s largest companies has more than quadrupled, even after adjusting for inflation, according to researchers. Over the same period, pay for a typical non-supervisory worker has dropped more than 10 percent, according to Bureau of Labor statistics.

And much of the increase was driven by nothing more than companies simply trying to ensure that their CEO’s pay was above the median for their industry, regardless of that CEO’s performance:

84 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:12:01am

re: #81 EmmmieG

I think it's "sizeist"

Ah, thank you!

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:12:12am

re: #80 NJDhockeyfan

Troofers spotted in the OWS crowd.

[Video]

Troofers will go anywhere.

86 aagcobb  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:12:40am

re: #68 chunkymonkey

Envy much? Who the hell cares?

Did you notice that the current state of income capture is almost exactly the same as the period 1920-29? I wonder what happened then? Our economy is driven by consumer spending; if virtually all income gains go to the top 1% while the incomes of hundreds of millions stagnate, the economy can't grow.

87 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:12:41am

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Troofers will go anywhere.

They are on a mission to spread the troof.

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:13:00am

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, because when an executive gets an 80 million dollar severance package when he gets fired over ethics violations, its because he's done so much to earn it.

90 Percent Of Corporations Think Their Executives Deserve Above-Median Pay, Driving Income Inequality

You commie.

89 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:13:31am

re: #80 NJDhockeyfan

Troofers spotted in the OWS crowd.

[Video]

And this one lone nut in a bullet-proof vest is representative how?

90 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:13:33am

re: #80 NJDhockeyfan

Not surprising that the troofers have made their way to a park less than a block from Ground Zero. They flitter all around the blocks around the WTC complex. Stick a camera in their face, and you've made their day.

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:13:38am

re: #87 NJDhockeyfan

They are on a mission to spread the troof.

How come they spread santorum instead?

92 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:13:56am

re: #70 Shiplord Kirel

In pages. The suspect, one Shareef Allman, is a Teamsters union rep and producer of a TV show on what appears to be local access TV. The quarry was his day job. There is a clip of him interviewing Jesse Jackson a while back.
Expect wingnut heads to explode over this one.

Shit.

93 darthstar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:14:09am

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

How come they spread santorum instead?

It spreads easier.

94 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:14:09am

re: #88 Sergey Romanov

You commie.

All corporations are Lake Woebegon. Their executives are *all* above average. And deservedly are paid so...

95 brennant  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:14:43am

re: #74 iossarian

I care that people in my income bracket are now working longer hours and have made great strides in productivity, but are not being paid any more than we were thirty years ago. Seems like a raw deal.

I would like to avoid this again.

96 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:15:23am

re: #89 darthstar

And this one lone nut in a bullet-proof vest is representative how?

Chill out dude, it's just a Troofer. Nothing to worry about.

97 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:15:37am

re: #27 Alouette

Why do you assume the MBF is female? Are you sexist or homophobic?

Can't I be both?

98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:17:43am

re: #80 NJDhockeyfan

Troofers spotted in the OWS crowd.

[Video]

If only rightwingers pointed up your own stupid bigots when they pop up. Why don't you?

Oh right, the rw doesn't have any. e_e

99 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:18:25am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Shit.

Jesse Jackson video is here.

100 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:19:03am

re: #98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If only rightwingers pointed up your own stupid bigots when they pop up. Why don't you?

Oh right, the rw doesn't have any. e_e

Quit whining and enjoy laughing at the idiots in the videos.

101 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:19:42am
Allman also authored a book titled "Saving Grace" on the subject of domestic violence.
102 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:20:02am

re: #98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If only rightwingers pointed up your own stupid bigots when they pop up. Why don't you?

Oh right, the rw doesn't have any. e_e

NJDF doesn't believe in the MBF. Therefore no need to go out of the way to find examples from both sides of the imaginary divide.

103 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:20:57am

re: #78 oaktree

There is the name of your GOP policy!

Roosevelt (Teddy) offered the "Square Deal".

Roosevelt (F.D.) offered the "New Deal".

The Gop offers up the "Raw Deal".

Progressive politics all the way!

It sounds more like they offer a no deal.

104 dragonfire1981  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:22:35am

I must be young, the first thing that jumps into my mind when I hear NWO is professional wrestling and Hollywood Hogan.

105 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:22:56am

OK, there's a new thread and we're past 100 comments, so I can go OT without accusing myself of deflection.

Hey Killgore, here's a paper about frog calls. I have a relative who was involved in its creation.

/no, I didn't read it. I looked at the pictures, though.

106 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:24:02am

re: #80 NJDhockeyfan

Troofers spotted in the OWS crowd.

[Video]

Button on his hat shows he's a supporter of the Green Party.

107 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:25:35am

re: #99 NJDhockeyfan

Jesse Jackson video is here.

Video's been taken down already.

108 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:26:40am

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Video's been taken down already.

Really? That was fast.

109 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:27:19am

re: #105 wrenchwench

OK, there's a new thread and we're past 100 comments, so I can go OT without accusing myself of deflection.

Hey Killgore, here's a paper about frog calls. I have a relative who was involved in its creation.

/no, I didn't read it. I looked at the pictures, though.

Cool, it has stuff on their territorial tendencies as well.

110 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:28:43am

re: #100 NJDhockeyfan

Quit whining and enjoy laughing at the idiots in the videos.

The only people whining are the folks like you, trying to deflect from your own dumb, stupid, ignorant bigots, of which there are no end.

So you quit whining, big baby.

111 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:30:07am

re: #110 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The only people whining are the folks like you, trying to deflect from your own dumb, stupid, ignorant bigots, of which there are no end.

So you quit whining, big baby.

LOL. You sound like my girls when they were 5 years old.

112 aagcobb  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:30:09am

Back on topic, Norquist may be losing his grip. Congressman Frank Wolf, R (Va) recently dredged up accusations that Norquist has ties to muslim terrorists. There's a big difference between some nut making an accusation and a Congressman making it.

113 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:30:30am

re: #109 Killgore Trout

Cool, it has stuff on their territorial tendencies as well.

Have you learned to speak frog yet?

114 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:31:48am

re: #73 NJDhockeyfan

I have never worn or been drunk near a tutu.

Aw man you should try it. Good times.

115 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:32:12am

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

Have you learned to speak frog yet?

Oui, oui, oui.

/Excusez-moi.

116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:33:12am

re: #102 oaktree

NJDF doesn't believe in the MBF. Therefore no need to go out of the way to find examples from both sides of the imaginary divide.

Well, I don't believe in the altruistic goodwill of a rw'er helping out the lefties maintain a good name, either. So it all works out I guess. lol

117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:33:46am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

LOL. You sound like my girls when they were 5 years old.

You sound like a teabagger.

118 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:34:26am

re: #113 NJDhockeyfan

Have you learned to speak frog yet?

Kind of. They do have a vocabulary of about may 5-6 different noises. Sometimes you can get a general feel for what they're talking about, Mating, territory, general chit chat, etc

119 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:36:09am

More Dem leaders embrace the Marxist moonbats in NYC....
Leading House Democrat: ‘Occupy Wall Street’ protests, Van Jones part of US ‘Arab Spring’

The “Occupy Wall Street” protests and former White House “green jobs czar” Van Jones are the beginning of an “American Fall,” according to Rep. John Larson, chairman of the House Democratic Caucus.

In Tuesday evening remarks before a group of visiting activists and journalists from Egypt and Tunisia, Larson said the United States has drawn inspiration from revolutions in those countries and, as a result, is experiencing its own “Arab Spring, if you will.”

In an exclusive interview with The Daily Caller following his speech, Larson said left-wing activists with “the right morals” are pushing America’s democracy to “evolve.”

The Connecticut congressman’s comments came during a welcoming function for international fellows hosted by World Affairs Journal.

120 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:40:20am

re: #18 Charles

The Magical Balance Fairy showed up right away today.

Little know fact: The Dance of the Magical Balance Fairy is a performance of "Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy" with a kazoo substituting for the celesta as the primary instrument.

121 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:41:46am

re: #119 Killgore Trout

More Dem leaders embrace the Marxist moonbats in NYC...
Leading House Democrat: ‘Occupy Wall Street’ protests, Van Jones part of US ‘Arab Spring’

At least they aren't Repub leaders embracing the Fascist TeaBaggers rallies that happened in Washington. Fuck the TeaBaggers, right? Fuck the Fascist right-wing cons, right?

122 Lidane  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:43:17am

So this is currently making the rounds on Facebook:

NSFW language, but I think it's worth a listen.

123 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:43:41am

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Kind of. They do have a vocabulary of about may 5-6 different noises. Sometimes you can get a general feel for what they're talking about, Mating, territory, general chit chat, etc

When they start picking winners of the Sunday NFL games, let me know.

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:44:15am

re: #119 Killgore Trout

The Arab Spring is actually a good (though limited) analogy. Often started by people with shady background (MB, Islamists, anyone?), joined by average folks; and ending with uncertain results, esp. in the near future. Many Westerners did and do support it though.

125 iossarian  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:44:24am

re: #121 RayFerd

At least they aren't Repub leaders embracing the Fascist TeaBaggers rallies that happened in Washington. Fuck the TeaBaggers, right? Fuck the Fascist right-wing cons, right?

Both political parties are distasteful to "centrists" as they twist in the wind and watch the value of their 401k's disintegrate.

126 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:45:01am

re: #120 The Ghost of a Flea

Little know fact: The Dance of the Magical Balance Fairy is a performance of "Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy" with a kazoo substituting for the celesta as the primary instrument.

Accompanied by accordion

127 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:45:48am
128 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:52:29am

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

That guy's got balls. I can tell you that both because the tutu is brief enough that indeed, we can be sure, and also because, well, he's wearing that tutu!!

Sumo wrestlers might be big, but they've got that whole defensive linebacker thing going on. You don't go anywhere without a bunch of muscle and some good reaction-time training. I would actually not be surprised if there were rikishi who have done basic ballet training because of how it teaches balance.

And they fight in a thong-diaper. That requires both balls and a sense of humor.

re: #126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Accompanied by accordion

And vuvuzela.

129 leftynyc  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 11:55:11am

re: #68 chunkymonkey

Envy much? Who the hell cares?

Keep talking. Those campaign ads are writing themselves with help from these kinds of assholes. So really, keep talking.

130 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:11:55pm

re: #124 Sergey Romanov

But the big difference is that our protesters aren't facing tanks, and AKs.

131 windsagio  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:19:12pm

re: #130 Obdicut

heh that's not their fault :p

132 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:23:12pm

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Chicago Traders Respond To Protesters With Signs Reading ‘We Are The 1%’

Keep it up assholes.

Meanwhile...Income graph

Slogan of the outlaw. Such arrogance.

133 Dave In Austin  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:32:32pm

I contacted my US Rep here in Austin and told him that I released him from his pledge to Grover and that he could begin fair tax reform for the middle class. Funny, I still haven't heard back from him

134 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:35:18pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't give a damn...if one parent working a factory job still gave the American family enough income to feed everyone and buy a house and a car.

And the Democrat solution to this? Tax, spend and regulate. Awesome, there's a plan for success! What do you suggest we do? I know, why don't we just set the minimum wage at $100? And set the max income allowed per year to $1 million, and any income over that tax at 100%.

You know, I grew up "poor" with a single mom, on a teachers salary, once she finished school, and we had enough income to feed her, myself, and my sister, and we had a car.

Why should everyone be able to buy a house? It's a nice ideal, but not practical in the least.

135 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:43:15pm

Fuck you, I got mine.

136 freetoken  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:46:04pm

re: #134 chunkymonkey

Raise taxes.

137 andres  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:46:20pm

re: #134 chunkymonkey

Check your head. There should be some gray gooey stuff inside it.

Please use it.

138 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:47:47pm

re: #134 chunkymonkey

And the Democrat solution to this? Tax, spend and regulate. Awesome, there's a plan for success! What do you suggest we do? I know, why don't we just set the minimum wage at $100? And set the max income allowed per year to $1 million, and any income over that tax at 100%.

You know, I grew up "poor" with a single mom, on a teachers salary, once she finished school, and we had enough income to feed her, myself, and my sister, and we had a car.

Why should everyone be able to buy a house? It's a nice ideal, but not practical in the least.

It was practical for several previous generations, including the one you grew up poor in. Do banks need more forclosed properties now than they did the past?

139 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:50:25pm

re: #136 freetoken

Raise taxes.

Awesome, how will that help?

re: #138 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It was practical for several previous generations, including the one you grew up poor in. Do banks need more forclosed properties now than they did the past?

And what should be done with the foreclosed properties exactly?

140 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:52:23pm

re: #139 chunkymonkey

Awesome, how will that help?

re: #138 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And what should be done with the foreclosed properties exactly?

A properly regulated mortgage market would have meant they wouldn't exist in the numbers they do today.

141 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:54:32pm

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A properly regulated mortgage market would have meant they wouldn't exist in the numbers they do today.

Agreed. If so many people weren't able to buy houses they couldn't afford, there would have been many fewer foreclosures.

142 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 1:58:23pm

re: #141 chunkymonkey

Agreed. If so many people weren't able to buy houses they couldn't afford, there would have been many fewer foreclosures.

Maybe the banks shouldn't have lobbied so hard to gut the regulations then.

143 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:02:25pm

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe the banks shouldn't have lobbied so hard to gut the regulations then.

Maybe the banks shouldn't have been bailed out when the screwed up so badly.

144 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:04:14pm

re: #143 chunkymonkey

Maybe the banks shouldn't have been bailed out when the screwed up so badly.

They had to find some way to pay those huge salaries and bonuses you love to defend so much. According to you, they earned them.

145 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:07:09pm

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They had to find some way to pay those huge salaries and bonuses you love to defend so much. According to you, they earned them.

I'm not defending their "huge salaries and bonuses," I simply don't give a rats ass about them. Envy is not my strong suit.

146 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:08:48pm

re: #145 chunkymonkey

Do you think the ever-increasing divide in wealth distribution in this country is sustainable?

Do you see any problems with the stagnation of real wages for workers?

147 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:12:27pm

re: #145 chunkymonkey

Envy is not my strong suit.

You can add logic and empathy to that list.

148 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:14:46pm

re: #146 Obdicut

Do you think the ever-increasing divide in wealth distribution in this country is sustainable?

No. Why should anyone care about the divide? The only reason to care is envy, pure and simple.

Do you see any problems with the stagnation of real wages for workers?

Please provide data for this stagnation. I've seen it claimed, I've never seen good data to support the claim. I do know that the "poor" in this country do a hell of a lot better than the poor did back when they were actually poor. I grew up "poor," and it was anything but. Sure, I didn't get to go on ski vacations and that sort of thing, but I had plenty of outlets for enrichment. We never lacked for food or HBO. Never lacked for health care either, even though we didn't have insurance.

149 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:18:50pm

re: #148 chunkymonkey

No. Why should anyone care about the divide? The only reason to care is envy, pure and simple.

Please provide data for this stagnation. I've seen it claimed, I've never seen good data to support the claim. I do know that the "poor" in this country do a hell of a lot better than the poor did back when they were actually poor. I grew up "poor," and it was anything but. Sure, I didn't get to go on ski vacations and that sort of thing, but I had plenty of outlets for enrichment. We never lacked for food or HBO. Never lacked for health care either, even though we didn't have insurance.

Study: Income Inequality Kills Economic Growth


Income Inequality, and Its Cost

Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

150 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:26:35pm

re: #148 chunkymonkey

No. Why should anyone care about the divide? The only reason to care is envy, pure and simple.

But that's obviously untrue. As wages stagnate and the divide grows, the purchasing power of the domestic market-- one of our main economic powers-- shrinks. Fewer and fewer Americans have income, which means they have less discretionary spending, which means innovation will dry up as well. So will capitalization; it'll be restricted further and further into the in-group.

Please provide data for this stagnation. I've seen it claimed, I've never seen good data to support the claim

I don't think you'd know good data if it bit you on the left nut while screaming "I am good data".

Image: productivity-and-real-wages.jpg

151 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:28:39pm

re: #149 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Study: Income Inequality Kills Economic Growth


Income Inequality, and Its Cost

Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

Economic studies of the sort you cite are essentially worthless. For any results of the nature found in the studies thus linked, I can find an abundance of economists who have achieved opposite results. None of their theories or results can be compared to any sort of control, and are not reproducible. Next.

152 Kragar  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:33:19pm

re: #151 chunkymonkey

Economic studies of the sort you cite are essentially worthless. For any results of the nature found in the studies thus linked, I can find an abundance of economists who have achieved opposite results. None of their theories or results can be compared to any sort of control, and are not reproducible. Next.

OK, so for the record, you ask for evidence, then instantly toss it aside as worthless without even attempting to address it or providing even one example of your own to counter it.

Yeah, you're worthless.

153 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 2:43:43pm

re: #152 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OK, so for the record, you ask for evidence, then instantly toss it aside as worthless without even attempting to address it or providing even one example of your own to counter it.

Yeah, you're worthless.

chunkymonkey: More spin than a laundromat...

154 chunkymonkey  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 3:33:44pm

re: #153 talon_262

chunkymonkey: More spin than a laundromat...

And still less than the O administration.

155 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:12:29pm

re: #154 chunkymonkey

And still less than the O administration.

You so funny...

156 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 4:17:47pm

re: #152 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

OK, so for the record, you ask for evidence, then instantly toss it aside as worthless without even attempting to address it or providing even one example of your own to counter it.

QFT. Plus, accusing people of "envy" when they criticize executives who earn money through unethical and criminal activity is like claiming men who speak out against rape and sexual harassment are just jealous because they aren't getting as much tail 9_9

157 po8crg  Fri, Oct 7, 2011 4:16:25pm

If you wanted a useful pledge on taxes, then it would be "I pledge only to vote for a budget if it increases the personal exemption to federal income tax by at least the rate of inflation". No more stealth tax increases on the poor by freezing the personal exemption. Probably should make a similar pledge on EITC, but that's harder to phrase simply.

Of course, cutting taxes for the poor doesn't count as a proper tax cut for the Tea Party.


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