George Will Accuses Straw Woman Of Attacking Straw Men

Litters the ground with piles of hay
Opinion • Views: 32,204

blogherenow.net

They say you can’t fight fire with fire. Actually, you can. But what you really can’t do - at least effectively - is fight what you identify as fallacious reasoning with precisely the same style of fallacious reasoning. George Will provides a striking illustration of this self-defeating pattern of reasoning in his latest editorial about Elizabeth Warren’s now famous rant at a small fundraising event. Will writes:

WASHINGTON — Elizabeth Warren, Harvard law professor and former Obama administration regulator (for consumer protection), is modern liberalism incarnate. As she seeks the Senate seat Democrats held for 57 years before 2010, when Scott Brown impertinently won it, she clarifies the liberal project, and the stakes of contemporary politics.

The project is to dilute the concept of individualism, thereby refuting respect for the individual’s zone of sovereignty. The regulatory state, liberalism’s instrument, constantly tries to contract that zone — for the individual’s own good, it says. Warren says:

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. … You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea — God bless, keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

Warren is (as William F. Buckley described Harvard economist John Kenneth Galbraith) a pyromaniac in a field of straw men: She refutes propositions no one asserts. Everyone knows that all striving occurs in a social context, so all attainments are conditioned by their context. This does not, however, entail a collectivist political agenda.

Such an agenda’s premise is that individualism is a chimera, that any individual’s achievements should be considered entirely derivative from society, so the achievements need not be treated as belonging to the individual. Society is entitled to socialize — i.e., conscript — whatever portion it considers its share. It may, as an optional act of political grace, allow the individual the remainder of what is misleadingly called the individual’s possession.

The collectivist agenda is antithetical to America’s premise, which is: Government — including such public goods as roads, schools and police — is instituted to facilitate individual striving, aka the pursuit of happiness. The fact that collective choices facilitate this striving does not compel the conclusion that the collectivity (Warren’s “the rest of us”) is entitled to take as much as it pleases of the results of the striving.

The “collectivist” straw woman against whom Will rails is simply a traditional liberal.Will goes on to write derisively about 1960s-era “new leftists” like Kenneth Galbraith, with their views about “false consciousness” implanted in individuals by corporate advertising, as if that has anything even remotely to do with Warren’s (or Obama’s) view that the rich should be taxed at slightly higher rates - closer to the rates at which the economy was actually doing much better in the past! The “collectivist” straw woman against whom Will rails is simply a traditional liberal, one who seeks to empower all individuals - rather than just a privileged few - by providing opportunities for self-improvement through public institutions. Anyone who identifies such liberalism with collectivism (or communism, or even socialism) needs to re-take Political Science or History 101. Will no doubt knows better, and is intentionally engaged in conservative rhetoric aimed to mislead the ill-informed.

What is sad is that Will is clever enough to engage in non-fallacious debate with his political adversaries, and both he and other conservatives surely have logically respectable arguments they could make in favor of their policy positions. Why don’t they bother to make them in such widely read editorials?

Jump to bottom

202 comments
1 bratwurst  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 11:06:39am

Will has, as the kids say, lost his shit.

2 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 11:30:09am

Does George Will realize that Elizabeth Warren isn't John Kenneth Galbraith?

3 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 11:50:34am

re: #1 bratwurst

Will has, as the kids say, lost his shit.

And he rants against the evil of blue jeans. Anyone who does that (while wearing a bow tie to boot) automatically goes into my "douchebag with no credibility to speak of" file :)

4 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 11:53:29am

Synopsis:

Individualism is paramount and only the richest people have proven that they are individualists, protected by the constitution.

Did Ayn Rand say that? Sounds familiar.

5 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 11:58:03am

re: #3 publicityStunted

And he rants against the evil of blue jeans. Anyone who does that (while wearing a bow tie to boot) automatically goes into my "douchebag with no credibility to speak of" file :)

Well, that and he calls this president and liberals elitist. Shit who doesn't like jeans outside George and my kid brother who finds them uncomfortable for some reason?

6 Larry A. Herzberg  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 11:58:55am

re: #4 Naso Tang

Yes, although I haven't read a lot of Rand's writing, what I have glanced at indicates that much of her philosophy consists of a straw man argument against liberalism, which she reduces to collectivism.

7 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:07:58pm

re: #6 Avram

Yes, although I haven't read a lot of Rand's writing, what I have glanced at indicates that much of her philosophy consists of a straw man argument against liberalism, which she reduces to collectivism.

She thought charity was immoral. I have to confess great amusement hearing religious conservatives (not Will whom I believe is agnostic) describing Rand's philosophy as what influenced them since Rand was so anti religion and even religious conservatives if they find forced charity wrong have no problem with individual charity which Rand found immoral.

8 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:08:29pm

I tried to get through Atlas Shrugged once, but I couldn't finish it -- not so much because it was boring or difficult to read (although it is) but because I found her ideology ugly and repellent.

It's one of the few books I've read that actually disgusted me.

9 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:11:23pm

re: #8 Charles

I tried to get through Atlas Shrugged once, but I couldn't finish it -- not so much because it was boring or difficult to read (although it is) but because I found her ideology ugly and repellent.

10 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:26:47pm

His use of 8th grade vocabulary qualifies him as a great thinker among his base.

11 nines09  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:28:43pm

Who is George Will and why should I care what his highness thinks? Him and Charles Krauthammer can get together and remember when someone cared about either one.

12 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:32:51pm

re: #8 Charles

I tried to get through Atlas Shrugged once, but I couldn't finish it -- not so much because it was boring or difficult to read (although it is) but because I found her ideology ugly and repellent.

It's one of the few books I've read that actually disgusted me.

Had to read The Fountainhead when I took philosophy. Came to the same conclusion you did. She kept on fawning over Howard Roark and how he was a hero but the character and ideology were repugnant.

13 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 12:36:26pm

Ayn Rand had a lot to do with the self-aggrandizing and self-deluding that went on as part of the propaganda efforts of waging the Cold War that America has fallen victim to.

14 Charleston Chew  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:34:18pm
What is sad is that Will is clever enough to engage in non-fallacious debate with his political adversaries, and both he and other conservatives surely have logically respectable arguments they could make in favor of their policy positions.

What is sad is this is not true. Will is an inveterate fallaciator.

15 calochortus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:40:09pm

re: #7 HappyWarrior

She thought charity was immoral. I have to confess great amusement hearing religious conservatives (not Will whom I believe is agnostic) describing Rand's philosophy as what influenced them since Rand was so anti religion and even religious conservatives if they find forced charity wrong have no problem with individual charity which Rand found immoral.

A very large number of people who claim to be religious really have no idea what is actually in their scriptures, as in the large number of Christian conservatives who think the "Give a man a fish/Teach a man to fish" thing is in the Bible.
I don't think a love for Ayn Rand is all that inconsistent with what their actual belief system is.

(edited so it will make sense)

16 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:41:16pm

I admire America for its individual liberties and emphasis on individual responsibility.
But that has come to mean that we as individuals have the right to negotiate for labor or insurance contracts with multinational corporations.
Ms Warren makes it clear that those who create wealth should be allowed to keep a fair share of it, she is just asking them to contribute to those who helped.
That assessment cannot be made in terms of the sort of bottom-line bookkeeping that comapnies use to balance their accounts, which is another aspect that riles them.
It would even better if we were in a position to state irrefutably that say, 40% of Ms. McGillicuddy's asthma stems from the emissions of a particular plant, she could then bill them for treatment.
If that were plausible, then we would not need an EPA, companies would be policing themselves to keep their costs down. But that is not currently possible.

17 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:45:39pm

All of us are collectivists. Corporations and churches are collectives. Even Objectivists are collective. The political right has made a fetish into demonizing innocent and rational concepts in order to thwart self-government as described in the US Constitution.

18 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:49:08pm

Someday progress will allow us to hatch our offspring as fully formed adults who need only have an education chip implanted and then be sent off to realize their potential as individuals in a society comprised of sovereign individuals and minimal government.

Then we will be able to live Ayn Rand's dream of modern society.

But right now, we are still born helpless, and many of us die that way as well. And we need others to educate us and train us to be part of a functioning society, which is more than the sum of its individuals.

19 Winny Spencer  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:51:03pm

Killgore has been spot on about OWS.

20 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:51:07pm

From Will:

The fact that collective choices facilitate this striving does not compel the conclusion that the collectivity (Warren's "the rest of us") is entitled to take as much as it pleases of the results of the striving.

I get the feeling that to Will, the collectivity is "you worker bees down there." And he's not the only one who gives me that feeling. Their slogan: "We are the 1%!"

21 Charleston Chew  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:51:13pm

re: #10 Amory Blaine

His use of 8th grade vocabulary qualifies him as a great thinker among his base.

There's been a trend over the years to claim that a few intellectually mediocre conservatives and even a few bald-faced liars are actually great conservative thinkers. I've heard it said of Gingrich, Krauthammer, Will, V.D. Hanson, etc. It seems to be a minor right-wing obsession to fantasize that all their bs was totally true cause it was cooked up by some big-brain boffins in a lab somewhere.

It reminds me of the time I was broke but reassured myself that my big change jar was full of quarters and would get me to my next paycheck, but when I actually started digging in it, all I found was nickles and pennies. The Right is broke and just trying to get to its next paycheck.

22 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:54:37pm

Rand is a pathetic yawn...over intellectualizing social behavior for the tweed jacket crowd...nothing has to be that boring...I struggled 3/4 of the way through Atlas and tossed it....a complete waste of time imo...she could have made her point in a 100 pages or less

23 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:57:55pm

re: #22 albusteve

Rand is a pathetic yawn...over intellectualizing social behavior for the tweed jacket crowd...nothing has to be that boring...I struggled 3/4 of the way through Atlas and tossed it...a complete waste of time imo...she could have made her point in a 100 pages or less

75 of which could have been pictures/ illustrations!
/

24 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 1:58:40pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

75 of which could have been pictures/ illustrations!
/

Coloring book. Draw in Hank Reardon and John Galt.

25 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:00:42pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

75 of which could have been pictures/ illustrations!
/

I'm always suspicious of windyness...you're smart, I get it, so what's the point?....blathering on usually adds little or nothing

26 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:01:12pm

re: #24 HappyWarrior

Coloring book. Draw in Hank Reardon and John Galt.

Old joke

"There was a fire at the (insert the name of a college you hate) LIBRARY

It;s a shame really. Not all the pages in some of the books had been colored yet"

27 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:02:22pm

re: #25 albusteve

Oklahoma 55

Texas 17

Close game, until the 2nd quarter started!!

28 Charleston Chew  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:03:40pm

re: #22 albusteve

Rand is a pathetic yawn...over intellectualizing social behavior for the tweed jacket crowd...nothing has to be that boring...I struggled 3/4 of the way through Atlas and tossed it...a complete waste of time imo...she could have made her point in a 100 pages or less

I would add that it's a mistake to write a novel, especially one that's over 1000 pages, and have a point at all. Large novels are at their best when they're a sprawling symphony of diverse human behavior. Descriptive rather than prescriptive. Reminds me of the old quote about movies, sometimes attributed to Samuel Goldwyn, “If you want to send a message, use Western Union.”

29 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:03:55pm

re: #27 sattv4u2

Oklahoma 55

Texas 17

Close game, until the 2nd quarter started!!

Yeah Baby.. Oklahoma kicked butt

30 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:04:34pm

re: #27 sattv4u2

Oklahoma 55

Texas 17

C,lose game, until the 2nd quarter started!!

heh...
Sooner Hoops has bedded down, due to all the TD shots

31 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:05:26pm

re: #29 HoosierHoops

Yeah Baby.. Oklahoma kicked butt

oh there you are....

32 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:05:53pm

re: #29 HoosierHoops

Yeah Baby.. Oklahoma kicked butt

There won't be a sober person in the 46th state tonight

33 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:07:08pm

If you want to understand Atlas Shrugged, just save yourself the time and play Bioshock. It'll be a lot less boring, you'll work out some frustration, and the voice-acting is top notch.

34 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:07:11pm

re: #31 albusteve

oh there you are...

I really need a nap Steve.. That was fun...

35 Charleston Chew  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:07:26pm

re: #32 sattv4u2

There won't be a sober person in the 46th state tonight

In other words, just an average Saturday.

36 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:07:35pm

re: #29 HoosierHoops

Yeah Baby.. Oklahoma kicked butt

I always thought this game (the Red River Shootout) was held closer to the mid- end of November

37 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:07:55pm

re: #29 HoosierHoops

Yeah Baby.. Oklahoma kicked butt

Texas is a cupcake

38 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:08:11pm

re: #19 Winny Spencer

Killgore has been spot on about OWS.

So may we assume that you too find it funny and laugh creepily when unarmed, non-threatening women get maced for no apparent reason? And if you argue that such a reason did exist, why didn't the police arrest them for it?

39 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:09:25pm

re: #34 HoosierHoops

I really need a nap Steve.. That was fun...

do it...
we'll cover (poke fun) for you til later

40 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:09:34pm

re: #38 goddamnedfrank

So may we assume that you too find it funny and laugh creepily when unarmed, non-threatening women get maced for no apparent reason? And if you argue that such a reason did exist, why didn't the police arrest them for it?


Many of them have been

[Link: www.google.com...]

41 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:10:19pm

gggrrr,,, frakked that up

42 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:11:22pm

re: #38 goddamnedfrank

So may we assume that you too find it funny and laugh creepily when unarmed, non-threatening women get maced for no apparent reason? And if you argue that such a reason did exist, why didn't the police arrest them for it?

paperwork

43 jvic  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:14:05pm

What is sad is that Will is clever enough to engage in non-fallacious debate with his political adversaries, and both he and other conservatives surely have logically respectable arguments they could make in favor of their policy positions. Why don’t they bother to make them in such widely read editorials?

1. My guess is that the political establishment is pursuing a pavlovian strategy. Voters who run on adrenalin are more enthusiastic and more generous than a skeptical, informed electorate would be.

2. What Will might should have said: Warren's argument (iirc) omits the benefit to the workers, community, and government of the jobs in that hypothetical factory. Without the factory, the workers would presumably take less attractive jobs (in which case they'd probably pay lower taxes) or be unemployed (in which case they'd consume other people's taxes via unemployment benefits etc).

3. The foregoing point is solely directed to the inadequacy of Warren's argument. I say nothing about the appropriate level of taxation for that factory owner.

4. Warren's concerns would be better directed to a situation in which a factory is closed and the jobs exported. I am open to a reasonable tax-based discouragement (reasonable, and consistent with treaty obligations) of such behavior. Unfortunately, Warren did not discuss that scenario.

44 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:15:25pm

re: #34 HoosierHoops

I really need a nap Steve.. That was fun...

They'll (Oklahoma) be fine as long as they don't have to play Boise State in a bowl game!!

(OH NO ,, he did NOT go there!!!!))

45 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:19:31pm

re: #44 sattv4u2

They'll (Oklahoma) be fine as long as they don't have to play Boise State in a bowl game!!

(OH NO ,, he did NOT go there!!!))

I saw OU live last Saturday.. They are very fast and athletic.. They kicked the crap out of Texas today..
The eye test says these guys are for real

46 blueraven  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:20:06pm

re: #43 jvic

What is sad is that Will is clever enough to engage in non-fallacious debate with his political adversaries, and both he and other conservatives surely have logically respectable arguments they could make in favor of their policy positions. Why don’t they bother to make them in such widely read editorials?

1. My guess is that the political establishment is pursuing a pavlovian strategy. Voters who run on adrenalin are more enthusiastic and more generous than a skeptical, informed electorate would be.

2. What Will might should have said: Warren's argument (iirc) omits the benefit to the workers, community, and government of the jobs in that hypothetical factory. Without the factory, the workers would presumably take less attractive jobs (in which case they'd probably pay lower taxes) or be unemployed (in which case they'd consume other people's taxes via unemployment benefits etc).

3. The foregoing point is solely directed to the inadequacy of Warren's argument. I say nothing about the appropriate level of taxation for that factory owner.

4. Warren's concerns would be better directed to a situation in which a factory is closed and the jobs exported. I am open to a reasonable tax-based discouragement (reasonable, and consistent with treaty obligations) of such behavior. Unfortunately, Warren did not discuss that scenario.

There is a symbiotic relationship, and I think she demonstrated that.

47 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:24:14pm

Alright. I'm back from the protest thingies, and am going to start collating my data.

Quick good news: Virtually everyone there is vehemently against violent protest.

Quick bad news: Most of the people I interviewed have been infected with the Paulian "end the fed" nonsense even though they cannot then actually describe what the fed does.

48 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:27:46pm

re: #47 Obdicut

Alright. I'm back from the protest thingies, and am going to start collating my data.

Quick good news: Virtually everyone there is vehemently against violent protest.

Quick bad news: Most of the people I interviewed have been infected with the Paulian "end the fed" nonsense even though they cannot then actually describe what the fed does.

What more reason do they need!?!?

/

49 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:28:34pm

re: #47 Obdicut

Quick bad news: Most of the people I interviewed have been infected with the Paulian "end the fed" nonsense even though they cannot then actually describe what the fed does.

Too bad. I was hoping that was astroturf. Sounds rather like the result of generous spreading of fertilizer.

50 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:33:36pm

re: #47 Obdicut

Quick bad news: Most of the people I interviewed have been infected with the Paulian "end the fed" nonsense even though they cannot then actually describe what the fed does.

Well, that sucks.

51 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:34:20pm
I support the Hyde Amendment, which broadly bars the use of federal funds for abortions. As president, I will end federal funding for abortion advocates like Planned Parenthood. I will protect a healthcare worker’s right to follow their conscience in their work. And I will nominate judges who know the difference between personal opinion and the law. It is long past time for the Supreme Court to return the issue of abortion back to the states, by overturning Roe v. Wade.

-Mitt Romney

Fuck a duck. So there you have it, no matter who gets the Republican nomination we're looking at a regressive dillhole who's primary goal is to end reproductive freedom.

52 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:35:53pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Pretty much, yeah.

53 lostlakehiker  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:37:38pm

re: #28 Charleston Chew

I would add that it's a mistake to write a novel, especially one that's over 1000 pages, and have a point at all. Large novels are at their best when they're a sprawling symphony of diverse human behavior. Descriptive rather than prescriptive. Reminds me of the old quote about movies, sometimes attributed to Samuel Goldwyn, “If you want to send a message, use Western Union.”

Alexander Solzhenitsyn, in "August 1914", was making the point that the decisions of generals do matter in war. That, Tolstoy to the contrary, war does not boil down to the courage and stoicism of the man in the ranks. That's a factor, but it's not always the deciding factor. Generals can put the rank and file in a hopeless position, just through inability to grasp the big picture.

That's not the only point of the novel, of course. But it's there.

54 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:37:44pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Fuck a duck. So there you have it, no matter who gets the Republican nomination we're looking at a regressive dillhole who's primary goal is to end reproductive freedom.

I'm trying to remember a year when this wasn't true.

55 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:38:17pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Fuck a duck. So there you have it, no matter who gets the Republican nomination we're looking at a regressive dillhole who's primary goal is to end reproductive freedom.

And you really expected differently?

56 Jimmah  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:39:14pm

re: #47 Obdicut

Alright. I'm back from the protest thingies, and am going to start collating my data.

Quick good news: Virtually everyone there is vehemently against violent protest.

Quick bad news: Most of the people I interviewed have been infected with the Paulian "end the fed" nonsense even though they cannot then actually describe what the fed does.

Can't we still beat them for their naivety?/ Naivety can be dangerous, especially so when it is expressed in the prsence of police officers. This danger in the prsence of the instruments of authority cannot be tolerated and must be met with violence./

57 William of Orange  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:39:50pm

On Crooks and Liars there's a Moveon.org interview with Jesse LaGreca. I never heard of the man but watching this interview made me curious. This man clearly is someone who schooled himself about the situation on Wall street and the Occupy reaction to that. He's a workingman's voice. I think we will hear a lot more from him. There is some analogy to him and (remember him?) Joe the Plumber. The difference is that LaGreca is not a sock puppet for a political party. The interview with Foxnews, which they were too chicken to air, is posted on Youtube.

Fascinating stuff. This man clearly avoided the traps that were laid in front of him by a Foxnews reporter. Talking clear, fast, no room for an intervention by the reporter and without a moment hestitation. This is the way you should dodge bullets. Not a sound bite could be used on air which would fit the Foxnews agenda. Made me laugh sometimes.

58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:42:53pm

re: #19 Winny Spencer

Killgore has been spot on about OWS.

Baloney.

59 Jimmah  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:45:13pm

Funny how all those things that the far right in Europe claimed we were in danger of from Muslims - bombings, terrorist shootings, removal of cherished freedoms - are now being done in Europe not by Muslims, but by the far right:

In the future, anything containing more than 15% THC will be treated the same way as hard drugs, such as cocaine and ecstasy.

The move is a big blow to the coffee shops - and means they will have to replace about 80% of their stock with weaker varieties.

Marc Josemans, who runs a cafe in Maastricht, says he believes that the new tough approach is being driven by the increasingly influential far-right in Dutch politics.

"You immediately can taste the difference. Everything which is considered unusual for them - they call it 'left hobbies' and under this name they want to ban all 'left hobbies', like using cannabis," he told the BBC.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

60 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:45:24pm

re: #58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Baloney.

ohhh,,

Can I have mine on marble rye with spicy brown mustard, a slice of colby cheese and a pickle on the side!?!?

61 dell*nix  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:45:33pm

re: #58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Salami.

62 blueraven  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:46:09pm

re: #58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Baloney.

spam in a can.

63 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:46:18pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Fuck a duck. So there you have it, no matter who gets the Republican nomination we're looking at a regressive dillhole who's primary goal is to end reproductive freedom.

Well, the stated goal, anyway.

Apparently socons are so dumb, they will keep voting these bigots in, who promise to change said laws, but never do. They never will, either; why should they?

The dumb socons will just keep voting these bigots in who promise to change said laws, but never do. They never will, either, lather rinse repeat.

64 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:46:39pm

re: #61 dell*nix

Salami.

Rushdie?
/

65 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:46:56pm

re: #57 William of Orange

On Crooks and Liars there's a Moveon.org interview with Jesse LaGreca. I never heard of the man but watching this interview made me curious. This man clearly is someone who schooled himself about the situation on Wall street and the Occupy reaction to that. He's a workingman's voice. I think we will hear a lot more from him. There is some analogy to him and (remember him?) Joe the Plumber. The difference is that LaGreca is not a sock puppet for a political party. The interview with Foxnews, which they were too chicken to air, is posted on Youtube.

Fascinating stuff. This man clearly avoided the traps that were laid in front of him by a Foxnews reporter. Talking clear, fast, no room for an intervention by the reporter and without a moment hestitation. This is the way you should dodge bullets. Not a sound bite could be used on air which would fit the Foxnews agenda. Made me laugh sometimes.

[Video]

The lefties have been really excited about him. I think he did a nice job but he really didn't blow me away.

66 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:47:12pm

re: #59 Jimmah

Funny how all those things that the far right in Europe claimed we were in danger of from Muslims - bombings, terrorist shootings, removal of cherished freedoms - are now being done in Europe not by Muslims, but by the far right:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

It seems to be a general theme on both sides of the Atlantic: The Far-Right runs on some grave danger (Islam in Europe/Gov't Debt here), then uses their new power to impose all the laws and regulations they couldn't get support for otherwise.

67 dell*nix  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:47:22pm

re: #64 sattv4u2

3 Stooges.

68 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:48:13pm

re: #32 sattv4u2

There won't be a sober person in the 46th state tonight

I will be! Of course, I don't really care a thing about football.

69 William of Orange  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:49:34pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

The lefties have been really excited about him. I think he did a nice job but he really didn't blow me away.

Oh, i will not raise him to sainthood, but it was kind of refreshing to see that Foxnews reporter swimming in hot water. Hahaha!!

70 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:49:51pm

Oh, Noes! Moar fascist opressions!
BREAKING (UPDATE): Police Pepper Spray Protesters in DC

It appears that the causal incident leading to the Pepper Spraying was protesters unveiling a three-story banner from the Air and Space Museum protesting a Military Drone exhibition.

71 laZardo  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:50:49pm

Hokay so I'm back from the B&N group interview and stopping by Occupy Seattle.

Pics in a bit.

72 allegro  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:53:05pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Oh, Noes! Moar fascist opressions!
BREAKING (UPDATE): Police Pepper Spray Protesters in DC

[Video]

Clearly you think this is just precious. I find it... unconscionable.

73 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:53:39pm

re: #67 dell*nix

3 Stooges.

I didn't know Salman Rushdie was one of the three stooges!!

Was his name originally Howard or Fine ?
/

74 sagehen  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:53:52pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

"protect a healthcare worker’s right to follow their conscience in their work. "

Fuck a duck. So there you have it, no matter who gets the Republican nomination we're looking at a regressive dillhole who's primary goal is to end reproductive freedom.

Isn't it funny how that "conscience clause" only applies to healthcare workers who'd let a woman die to save a fetus; they'd imprison any healthcare worker whose conscience (or religion) requires that a life-threatening pregnancy be terminated.

Only fundamentalist Evangelicals are entitled to live their conscience; everyone else has to live the F.E.'s conscience, regardless of their own faith.

75 dell*nix  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:54:28pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

Curley

76 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:54:43pm

re: #75 dell*nix

Curley

fries?

77 William of Orange  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:55:45pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Oh, Noes! Moar fascist opressions!
BREAKING (UPDATE): Police Pepper Spray Protesters in DC

[Video]

Looks so counter productive.... Just bashing the defense industry is not the direction the protesters should go. This will no doubt be food for Fox etc. although the budget spend on defense is vulgar.

78 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:56:07pm

re: #74 sagehen

Isn't it funny how that "conscience clause" only applies to healthcare workers who'd let a woman die to save a fetus; they'd imprison any healthcare worker whose conscience (or religion) requires that a life-threatening pregnancy be terminated.

Only fundamentalist Evangelicals are entitled to live their conscience; everyone else has to live the F.E.'s conscience, regardless of their own faith.

You've nailed it. They don't acknowledge the existence of mores other than their own.

79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:56:27pm

re: #47 Obdicut

Alright. I'm back from the protest thingies, and am going to start collating my data.

Quick good news: Virtually everyone there is vehemently against violent protest.

Quick bad news: Most of the people I interviewed have been infected with the Paulian "end the fed" nonsense even though they cannot then actually describe what the fed does.

I just got back from SF's, myself - uploading some snapshots, now. Everyone was nice, including the cops; about 250 people gathered, many of whom seemed to be gawkers like myself. There were some honking horns of passersby, but not many.

I saw maybe 4 ANSWER signs, a couple of which were in a heap with some other pickets. Saw perhaps just as many end-the-fed signs, at a table of theirs.

It was quite ho-hum if you ask me, but I did see CNN was playing (on mute) in a restaurant, and they had a divided screen of protests in 4 cities: Philadelphia, and some others..don't recall.

Perhaps in other cities the scope of Occupy might be a bigger deal. But I didn't see much different in this than any other run of the mill protest.

80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:56:51pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

The lefties have been really excited about him.

Which ones?

Be specific, please.

81 dell*nix  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:57:05pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

Hre: #76 sattv4u2

Hair

82 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:57:15pm

re: #77 William of Orange

Looks so counter productive... Just bashing the defense industry is not the direction the protesters should go. This will no doubt be food for Fox etc. although the budget spend on defense is vulgar.

Eh. These folks have always had a quite reasonable downer on the military industrial complex.

83 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:57:53pm

re: #72 allegro

Clearly you think this is just precious. I find it... unconscionable.

So do I. The leftist radicals attacked a security guard and tried to force their way into the museum....
Protesters Force Closing of Air and Space Museum

According to Smithsonian spokesperson Linda St. Thomas, a crowd of "about 100 to 200 people" tried to enter through the museum's Mall entrance.

"They were carrying signs and a lot of protest materials," St. Thomas said in a statement. "You cannot bring that stuff into the museum under any circumstances."

According to St. Thomas, the crowd tried to shove its way into the museum after being denied entry by security.

"One security guard was grabbed and pinned against the wall. He could not extract himself," the spokesperson said. "Another security guard came over to help him and ended up pepper-spraying one person."

84 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:58:54pm

re: #72 allegro

Clearly you think this is just precious. I find it... unconscionable.

Yay, cops beating the commies.

Now I can finally put my 40 years old resentments about Jane Fonda to rest. /

e_e

85 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:59:07pm

re: #80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Which ones?

Be specific, please.

The video has been all over DKOS, Huffpoo, Reddit and FDL all week. Sorry but I haven't complied a complete list sites posting that interview.

86 laZardo  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 2:59:37pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Fucking pigs.

87 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:00:29pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Got your orgasm for the day?

88 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:00:29pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

The video has been all over DKOS, Huffpoo, Reddit and FDL all week. Sorry but I haven't complied a complete list sites posting that interview.

Not good enough

We want names of each and every individual!!!

"be specific" !!

/

ggeeezz Louise !!

89 sagehen  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:01:15pm

re: #54 iceweasel

I'm trying to remember a year when this wasn't true.

In 1980, John Anderson was a serious contender for the nomination and pro-choice. Gerald Ford was vehemently pro-choice. Richard Nixon was lukewarmish pro-choice.

And while Reagan and Dole and both Bushes were anti-choice, their wives and daughters were emphatically not.

90 jaunte  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:01:19pm

re: #72 allegro

According to St. Thomas, the crowd tried to shove its way into the museum after being denied entry by security.

I think this is a deliberate part of the show, the way they transform a local protest that few people will see, into a nationally viewed video.

91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:01:55pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

The video has been all over DKOS, Huffpoo, Reddit and FDL all week.

Where on DKos, Huffpoo, Reddit and FDL?

Links, please.

92 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:02:27pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

The video has been all over DKOS, Huffpoo, Reddit and FDL all week. Sorry but I haven't complied a complete list sites posting that interview.

The "behead all banksters" contingent. They only think they understand finance and due process.

93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:03:58pm

re: #88 sattv4u2

Not good enough

We want names of each and every individual!!!

You're quite right about that, sattv.

KT's word alone is not good enough.

I don't doubt the videos were on any of those sites at all. But you would not accept "the righty sites said obama is a monkey" from me, so I don't accept something similar from anyone else.

94 laZardo  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:04:09pm

re: #79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I just got back from SF's, myself - uploading some snapshots, now. Everyone was nice, including the cops; about 250 people gathered, many of whom seemed to be gawkers like myself. There were some honking horns of passersby, but not many.

I saw maybe 4 ANSWER signs, a couple of which were in a heap with some other pickets. Saw perhaps just as many end-the-fed signs, at a table of theirs.

It was quite ho-hum if you ask me, but I did see CNN was playing (on mute) in a restaurant, and they had a divided screen of protests in 4 cities: Philadelphia, and some others..don't recall.

Perhaps in other cities the scope of Occupy might be a bigger deal. But I didn't see much different in this than any other run of the mill protest.

I'm getting about the same impression from the Seattle one. Several different kinds of Socialist groups, vocally pro-Cuba. I did make myself a "REG(ulate) THE FED" poster and got a generally favorable reaction. Might have even changed an "End The Fed" guy's mind.

95 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:04:10pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Fuck a duck. So there you have it, no matter who gets the Republican nomination we're looking at a regressive dillhole who's primary goal is to end reproductive freedom.

precisely what makes these goofballs dangerous....they are no joke

96 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:05:04pm

re: #89 sagehen

In 1980, John Anderson was a serious contender for the nomination and pro-choice. Gerald Ford was vehemently pro-choice. Richard Nixon was lukewarmish pro-choice.

And while Reagan and Dole and both Bushes were anti-choice, their wives and daughters were emphatically not.

Mrs. Ford and Nixon were both ERA supporters too as well as was President Reagan's daughter. Not sure where Mrs. Reagan fell on that issue. Ironically Mrs. Carter opposed the ERA. Have to say historically I respect both President and Mrs. Ford a lot especially hearing Jerry in the early 2000's come out for gay and lesbian equality. Showed me that it's not merely just a generational thing.

97 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:05:39pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Oh, Noes! Moar fascist opressions!
BREAKING (UPDATE): Police Pepper Spray Protesters in DC

[Video]

heh...pile it on bro

98 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:05:46pm

re: #93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You're quite right about that, sattv.

KT's word alone is not good enough.

I don't doubt the videos were on any of those sites at all. But you would not accept "the righty sites said obama is a monkey" from me, so I don't accept something similar from anyone else.

umm,,,errr,, when did I do that?

(nice try, btw ,, slipping something like that in near a dead end thread!!)

99 sagehen  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:08:25pm

re: #57 William of Orange

Fascinating stuff. This man clearly avoided the traps that were laid in front of him by a Foxnews reporter. Talking clear, fast, no room for an intervention by the reporter and without a moment hestitation. This is the way you should dodge bullets. Not a sound bite could be used on air which would fit the Foxnews agenda. Made me laugh sometimes.

that's not some random guy speaking extemporaneously -- it's well-prepared Kossack MinistryOfTruth

100 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:08:57pm

re: #93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You're quite right about that, sattv.

KT's word alone is not good enough.

I don't doubt the videos were on any of those sites at all. But you would not accept "the righty sites said obama is a monkey" from me, so I don't accept something similar from anyone else.

we're not as deep into race as you...we let it go

101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:09:11pm

re: #98 sattv4u2

umm,,,errr,, when did I do that?

9_9

Did I say you ever did?

No, I said you wouldn't, and it's true.

And hey, even if you ever did accept my word that "the righty sites say obama is a monkey", so what if I ask KT for specifics. He's not beholden to answer, so why do you even care?

102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:10:30pm

re: #100 albusteve

we're not as deep into race as you...we let it go

Speak for yourself, not some vague "we".

As for me, nothing changes about the content of my posts, sorry.

103 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:10:37pm

re: #101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You said

" you would not accept "the righty sites said obama is a monkey" from me"

as if it happened

Words and phraseology mean something

104 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:11:02pm

re: #89 sagehen

In 1980, John Anderson was a serious contender for the nomination and pro-choice. Gerald Ford was vehemently pro-choice. Richard Nixon was lukewarmish pro-choice.

And while Reagan and Dole and both Bushes were anti-choice, their wives and daughters were emphatically not.

Ford opposed Roe v. Wade. Nixon thought abortion was necessary in cases where the pregnancy resulted from an interracial union (classy.)

Presidential positions.

105 jvic  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:11:03pm

Slightly OT:

1. Since I talk like a conservative but vote more like an independent, Warren's Web site is damned effective afaic.

2. I strongly supported Brown's election, but next time he will only get my halfhearted vote if that. I can't honestly say he deserves reelection. The guy who electrified the state with It's not the Kennedy seat, it's the people's seat. is not running. Fortunately, I'm inured to being disappointed or betrayed by Republican politicians...

3. I live in a relatively conservative part of MA. Though yearning for a qualified opponent to appear, I occasionally vote for my very liberal Congressman because I respect craftsmanship no matter what the field is. By that standard, I am more engaged by Warren than I expected--or want--to be.

106 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:11:24pm

re: #101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

9_9

Did I say you ever did?

No, I said you wouldn't, and it's true.

And hey, even if you ever did accept my word that "the righty sites say obama is a monkey", so what if I ask KT for specifics. He's not beholden to answer, so why do you even care?

KT is posting real world events....not a bunch of hypothetical shit....your BO monkey gig is ridiculous

107 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:11:31pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

You said

" you would not accept "the righty sites said obama is a monkey" from me"

as if it happened

Words and phraseology mean something

She was positing a hypothetical, not attacking you.

108 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:12:15pm

Two great pages on Occupy Wall Street demonstrations.

First Obdicut's:

What I learned at Occupy Wall Street

And my page:

Yom Kippur Service Taking Place At Occupy Wall Street

109 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:12:29pm

re: #102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Speak for yourself, not some vague "we".

As for me, nothing changes about the content of my posts, sorry.

I've noticed

110 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:12:53pm

re: #107 iceweasel

She was positing a hypothetical, not attacking you.

Then perhaps she should have phrased it "WHAT IF ,,,,,"

111 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:14:00pm

FWIW, I think the OWS protestors are blowing it. They should be about JOBS and only JOBS since that is the only slightest possible legislation to be won by Nov 2012. That bill also raises taxes on the 1%. Its a double winner. Then 40 million supporters would climb on board and empathize.

Instead I see stuff about drones, capital punishment. end all debt, forgive student loans, return to Glass-Steagall, Audit the Fed, end the wars, and other assorted things that have no chance of passing.

112 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:14:04pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

Then perhaps she should have phrased it "WHAT IF ,,,"

It was implicit.

113 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:14:47pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

You said

" you would not accept "the righty sites said obama is a monkey" from me"

as if it happened

Words and phraseology mean something

Why yes! They do!

This is why we use them to communicate.

I'm only going to say this one more time: you would not accept that statement about "righty sites" from me on faith. I don't have to accept what Killgore Trout says about "lefty sites" that say this or post that on faith, either. It really is that basic, sattv.

114 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:14:57pm
115 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:15:18pm

re: #109 albusteve

I've noticed

Bright eyes.

116 Jimmah  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:15:26pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

Then perhaps she should have phrased it "WHAT IF ,,,"

Why? It was bleedin obvious.

117 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:15:44pm

re: #113 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

you would not accept that statement about "righty sites" from me on faith

And you know that how??

118 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:16:18pm

Jesus Christ.

119 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:16:30pm

We should be moar like Syria! Fuck yeah!

//

120 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:17:12pm

re: #113 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why yes! They do!

This is why we use them to communicate.

I'm only going to say this one more time: you would not accept that statement about "righty sites" from me on faith. I don't have to accept what Killgore Trout says about "lefty sites" that say this or post that on faith, either. It really is that basic, sattv.

then don't and move on...KTs record speaks for itself...why should he give you more reason to rip him?...figure it out for yourself

121 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:17:47pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

Then perhaps she should have phrased it "WHAT IF ,,,"

e_e

122 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:18:21pm

re: #116 Jimmah

Why? It was bleedin obvious.

not good enough...now days you get your ass shredded if the wording is not exact

123 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:18:38pm

re: #117 sattv4u2

you would not accept that statement about "righty sites" from me on faith

And you know that how??

The righty sites say Obama is a monkey.

124 jvic  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:20:07pm

re: #88 sattv4u2

Not good enough

We want names of each and every individual!!!

"be specific" !!

/

ggeeezz Louise !!

I once tried to have a discussion with a Palinista who claimed that The Divine Sarah was persecuted by a far-flung media conspiracy. The more in-depth the links I dug up were, the more far-flung the conspiracy became. My interlocutor did not produce a single reference, but only dismissals of mine.

Hopefully I won't make that mistake again, no matter what my counterparty's politics are.

125 makeitstop  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:20:32pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

You said

" you would not accept "the righty sites said obama is a monkey" from me"

as if it happened

Words and phraseology mean something

Replace 'would not' with 'did not' and maybe you'd have a point.

As it stands, no.

126 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:20:55pm

re: #120 albusteve

then don't and move on...KTs record speaks for itself...why should he give you more reason to rip him?...figure it out for yourself

Lol, please.

I'll question anyone I choose any time I feel like it. Including KT, regardless of what you say his "record" is.

127 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:20:59pm

re: #123 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The righty sites say Obama is a monkey.

well that's just not true

128 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:22:02pm

re: #126 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol, please.

I'll question anyone I choose any time I feel like it. Including KT, regardless of what you say his "record" is.

go ahead, pound your head....lists and links etc are not going to change anything

129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:22:21pm

re: #118 iceweasel

Jesus Christ.

I know. It's absurd.

130 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:22:46pm

re: #123 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The righty sites say Obama is a monkey.

Yup,, some do!

131 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:22:59pm

re: #111 Linden Arden

FWIW, I think the OWS protestors are blowing it. They should be about JOBS and only JOBS since that is the only slightest possible legislation to be won by Nov 2012. That bill also raises taxes on the 1%. Its a double winner. Then 40 million supporters would climb on board and empathize.

Instead I see stuff about drones, capital punishment. end all debt, forgive student loans, return to Glass-Steagall, Audit the Fed, end the wars, and other assorted things that have no chance of passing.

I agree that somebody needs to get the message about jobs out there. Wall Street has played a huge part in pushing corporations to offshore jobs. I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s when companies would make the big announcement that they were building factories in China their stocks would skyrocket. Good for the CEO, terrible for America.

132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:23:04pm

re: #128 albusteve

go ahead, pound your head...lists and links etc are not going to change anything

You post your way, I'll post mine.

133 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:23:37pm

re: #125 makeitstop

Replace 'would not' with 'did not' and maybe you'd have a point.

As it stands, no.

Really?

You would not give me a beer last night

134 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:23:41pm

re: #130 sattv4u2

Yup,, some do!

my kids used worse on me....their DAD!
WTF!
links!
lists!

135 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:24:40pm

re: #132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You post your way, I'll post mine.

okay, keep an eye on me and you might learn something

136 makeitstop  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:24:58pm

re: #133 sattv4u2

Really?

You would not give me a beer last night

What does me giving you a beer have to do with anything?

(And you know if you were in the same room with me, I would defend your Constitutional right to a beer to the death.)
/

137 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:25:50pm

re: #111 Linden Arden

FWIW, I think the OWS protestors are blowing it. They should be about JOBS and only JOBS since that is the only slightest possible legislation to be won by Nov 2012. That bill also raises taxes on the 1%. Its a double winner. Then 40 million supporters would climb on board and empathize.

Instead I see stuff about drones, capital punishment. end all debt, forgive student loans, return to Glass-Steagall, Audit the Fed, end the wars, and other assorted things that have no chance of passing.

What you're seeing is a true grassroots movement in the embryonic stages, when there is a lack of clear leadership, no coherent message, and mostly nothing more than a common cause/hatred to bring them together. If anything, all of them out there, agitating in support of Obama's jobs bill, would just make it easier for the critics to accuse them of being astroturf, of being something that the Democrats are bankrolling in order to scare Republicans into supporting a "bad" bill.

138 Jimmah  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:26:32pm

re: #120 albusteve

then don't and move on...KTs record speaks for itself...why should he give you more reason to rip him?...figure it out for yourself

LOL. A lot of people here who disagree with KT on OWS have a 'record' every bit as good as his - or better.

Hope that wasn't too cryptic.

139 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:27:18pm

re: #134 albusteve

Dude, really, let it go. I remember "monkey guy" from the campaign in 2008 who thought it was the height of humor to show up with a monkey doll that was supposed to represent Obama at campaign events.

The righty sites definitely call Mrs. Obama terrible things.

I'd guess if I was willing to go to stormfront or Lew Rockwell or places like that I could find something about Obama/monkey/ape/Chewbacca/whatever.

140 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:28:30pm

Oh, and I gave the Tea Party folks the benefit of the doubt for about 6 months, so I'll do the same for the OWS folks.

141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:28:58pm

re: #135 albusteve

okay, keep an eye on me and you might learn something

I will if you will do the same with my posts.

Otherwise, you just keep posting your way and I'll do the same.

/the way the ball bounces

142 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:29:17pm
143 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:29:39pm

re: #139 funky chicken

Dude, really, let it go. I remember "monkey guy" from the campaign in 2008 who thought it was the height of humor to show up with a monkey doll that was supposed to represent Obama at campaign events.

The righty sites definitely call Mrs. Obama terrible things.

I'd guess if I was willing to go to stormfront or Lew Rockwell or places like that I could find something about Obama/monkey/ape/Chewbacca/whatever.

I don't give a shit who calls who a monkey, bunch of petty insults...we're all monkeys

144 Jimmah  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:30:02pm

Night folks!

PS Good to see you again Gus! Catch you later :)

145 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:30:10pm

re: #142 Gus 802

Ha! This is awesome...

Some Cops Furious NYPD Officer Flashed Peace Sign In Photo With Occupy Wall Street Protester

OMG! Look at what she says in that sign! Gasp.

Woops. Doesn't fit the narrative.

Image: 10811cops.jpg

146 makeitstop  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:31:02pm

re: #145 Gus 802

OMG! Look at what she says in that sign! Gasp.

Woops. Doesn't fit the narrative.

Image: 10811cops.jpg

That's a Jimi Hendrix quote on her sign. :)

147 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:31:10pm

re: #144 Jimmah

Night folks!

PS Good to see you again Gus! Catch you later :)

Later you two. Peace!

OMG! I said peace. I must be a leftist-Marxist-hippie. //

148 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:31:28pm

re: #145 Gus 802

OMG! Look at what she says in that sign! Gasp.

Woops. Doesn't fit the narrative.

Image: 10811cops.jpg

I saw that photo on facebook. Really they're pissed? Talk about anger issues.

149 jaunte  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:31:35pm

re: #145 Gus 802

He's a peace officer.

150 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:32:21pm

Heh peace signs. I remember Limbaugh going on a rant that Sasha and Malia Obama were t-shirts with the peace sign. Man peace sucks.

151 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:32:30pm

re: #141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I will if you will do the same with my posts.

Otherwise, you just keep posting your way and I'll do the same.

/the way the ball bounces

fine...when you need to smack somebody, you know where to find me...
you know who Allen Iverson is?...he was a pain in the ass

152 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:32:45pm

re: #142 Gus 802

Ha! This is awesome...

Some Cops Furious NYPD Officer Flashed Peace Sign In Photo With Occupy Wall Street Protester

I guess many police in NY don't go for this marxist "community relationship" crap.

153 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:33:38pm

re: #138 Jimmah

LOL. A lot of people here who disagree with KT on OWS have a 'record' every bit as good as his - or better.

Hope that wasn't too cryptic.

Lol it's a stupid argument.

"KT was right on the tea party so no one is supposed to question what he says about OWS."

BFD, even a big dummy like me was right on the tea party; a bunch of seething conservatives with misspelled picket signs depicting Obama as a witch doctor, pimp, ape, turban-wearing arab, half-breed muslim, make it really easy to pick up on their gripes.

What's that supposed to prove?

154 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:33:41pm

re: #142 Gus 802

Ha! This is awesome...

Some Cops Furious NYPD Officer Flashed Peace Sign In Photo With Occupy Wall Street Protester

Some cops are pricks. Most aren't, in my experience. Most cops are genuinely motivated by the whole "serve and protect" thing. My husband's a military officer, and he's genuinely motivated by the "honor and patriotism" thing...which often sets my teeth on edge, to be honest.

155 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:34:37pm

re: #150 HappyWarrior

Heh peace signs. I remember Limbaugh going on a rant that Sasha and Malia Obama were t-shirts with the peace sign. Man peace sucks.

Yeah. Screw peace. What we need is more wars!

That's what all of foreign policy wonks are saying.

//

156 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:34:47pm

re: #152 Naso Tang

I guess many police in NY don't go for this marxist "community relationship" crap.

there are like 45k NYC cops....they are at least as diverse and opinionated as any protester...we are all of one nest

157 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:35:49pm

re: #150 HappyWarrior

Heh peace signs. I remember Limbaugh going on a rant that Sasha and Malia Obama were t-shirts with the peace sign. Man peace sucks.

My husband's a USAF officer and our daughter has shirts with peace signs on them. LOL. Limbaugh's brain would implode.

We also prefer organic meats and dairy products. What an enigma we are, huh?

158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:36:02pm

re: #151 albusteve

fine...when you need to smack somebody, you know where to find me...
you know who Allen Iverson is?...he was a pain in the ass

No, smacking won't ever happen; it's not my style.

Not familiar with Iverson. What's his deal?

159 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:36:34pm

re: #156 albusteve

there are like 45k NYC cops...they are at least as diverse and opinionated as any protester...we are all of one nest

I was being sarcastic. You of all people missed that, or were you being coy in return?

160 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:38:20pm

re: #158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No, smacking won't ever happen; it's not my style.

Not familiar with Iverson. What's his deal?

he was a genius basketball player...point guard for Philly

161 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:38:31pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

I saw that photo on facebook. Really they're pissed? Talk about anger issues.

And violent, too. /

The lefty radicals always resort to violence to force their agenda, I heard. //

I hope that cop smacked those glasses off her head. ///

162 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:39:08pm

re: #161 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And violent, too. /

The lefty radicals always resort to violence to force their agenda, I heard. //

I hope that cop smacked those glasses off her head. ///

That's what I was thinking.

//

163 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:39:13pm

re: #159 Naso Tang

I was being sarcastic. You of all people missed that, or were you being coy in return?

no, I missed it...my bad
my attention is split at the moment

164 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:39:27pm

re: #160 albusteve

he was a genius basketball player...point guard for Philly

And he's a pain in the ass because he's a good player? some personality issue? I don't know anything about him.

165 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:39:57pm

re: #163 albusteve

no, I missed it...my bad
my attention is split at the moment

Yeah, what with talking of nesting and all.

166 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:40:40pm

re: #157 funky chicken

My husband's a USAF officer and our daughter has shirts with peace signs on them. LOL. Limbaugh's brain would implode.

We also prefer organic meats and dairy products. What an enigma we are, huh?

They cook better, look better, and taste better. If you can afford it, I definitely recommend it.

167 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:40:51pm
168 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:41:28pm

re: #165 Naso Tang

Yeah, what with talking of nesting and all.

heh...that's a Navaho saying....as for me I've been on the phone

169 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:41:37pm

re: #157 funky chicken

My husband's a USAF officer and our daughter has shirts with peace signs on them. LOL. Limbaugh's brain would implode.

We also prefer organic meats and dairy products. What an enigma we are, huh?

Funny story but when a friend of mine and myself were going to stay with my cousin and her husband, I told him that my cousin's husband was former Marines. He thought aw crap he's gonna make us do push ups. I laughed since my cousin in law is a surfing aficionado and pretty easy going and hell even had an extra role in a movie as a hippie. Hell him and his twin brother even got surfer for their religion on their dogtags.

170 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:41:48pm

re: #164 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Iverson: "I'm a franchise player, and we're sitting here talking about practice? Like I need to show up for practice."

Talented guy who never left his rough upbringing and all the associated baggage behind. Unfortunately.

171 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:43:25pm

re: #154 funky chicken

Some cops are pricks. Most aren't, in my experience. Most cops are genuinely motivated by the whole "serve and protect" thing.

The one I talked to today was nice. It was a hi/how are'ya conversation. Cops here are used to this sort of thing, though. They have gotten better with crowds over the years, I think, what with the neighborhood fairs, permits, etc.

People generally know how to act here.

172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:46:42pm

re: #170 funky chicken

Iverson: "I'm a franchise player, and we're sitting here talking about practice? Like I need to show up for practice."

Hmph. Sounds like a great way to end up with an injury. Or, more likely, be shown up by the guys who do practice.

173 albusteve  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:46:45pm

re: #170 funky chicken

Iverson: "I'm a franchise player, and we're sitting here talking about practice? Like I need to show up for practice."

Talented guy who never left his rough upbringing and all the associated baggage behind. Unfortunately.

there you have it...I'm impressed

174 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:46:56pm

More radicals from OWS...

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

175 laZardo  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:48:21pm

re: #154 funky chicken

Some cops are pricks. Most aren't, in my experience. Most cops are genuinely motivated by the whole "serve and protect" thing. My husband's a military officer, and he's genuinely motivated by the "honor and patriotism" thing...which often sets my teeth on edge, to be honest.

The thin blue line still rings around all of them though...

176 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:49:35pm

re: #173 albusteve

there you have it...I'm impressed

LOL my son saw it on Sportscenter. We still laugh about it. He's an up and coming elite athlete (as his mother, I'm totally objective, too). But he damn sure knows that somebody out there is working harder and learning more than him, and he has to do his best to keep up.

Iverson...pfft.

177 M. Dubious  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:51:23pm

re: #174 Gus 802

More radicals from OWS...

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

Heh. The guy on the left figured he'd join in because he had a hat too.

178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:53:40pm

re: #106 albusteve

KT is posting real world events...not a bunch of hypothetical shit...your BO monkey gig is ridiculous

It was and is every bit as "real world" as KT's posts.

re: #127 albusteve

well that's just not true

Is so.

Don't question it, either. This is me falling back on my record, which speaks for itself.

179 Gus  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:55:49pm

Walter the World War 2 veteran from See The Many Faces That Occupy Wall Street

Image: walter-the-world-war-2-veteran.jpg

Name: Walter

Role at Occupy Wall Street: Occupier.

From: Uptown, New York City.

How long have you been Occupying Wall Street: Several days. He has started going every day.

How did you find out about Occupy Wall Street: TV and newspaper.

Job: Retired World War 2 veteran.

Describe why you are occupying Wall Street in less than 5 words: “I sympathize with the people.”

Favorite website: None. He’s 89!

180 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 3:59:19pm

re: #178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Knock it off, you two.

181 M. Dubious  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:07:27pm

How can 200 people claim to be the 99%? There is some fishy mathematics going on here...

182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:24:02pm

re: #179 Gus 802

Walter the World War 2 veteran from See The Many Faces That Occupy Wall Street

Image: walter-the-world-war-2-veteran.jpg

Here are some from the SF site, earlier today. Looks like the typical SF protest site, with signs tailored for the events. Looks a LOT like Telegraph Ave, more than anything. Probably the same street vendors.

Image: 2011-10-08_12-25-26_60.jpg
Hippies with ANSWER Coalition and Occupy SF signs

Image: 2011-10-08_12-25-00_435.jpg
Can't read the text. From the "end the fed" table/thingy. Hopefully not some "sovereign citizen" b.s.

Image: 2011-10-08_12-24-01_420.jpg
Various issues

Image: 2011-10-08_12-23-36_200.jpg
More various issues

Image: 2011-10-08_12-21-23_213.jpg
Gathering. Seemed to be more picture-takers at least on the perimiter.

183 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:31:09pm

re: #181 harald

How can 200 people claim to be the 99%? There is some fishy mathematics going on here...

They would not even be there if not for fishy mathematics somewhere.

184 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:37:18pm

re: #183 Naso Tang

They would not even be there if not for fishy mathematics somewhere.

Fishy math??
naahhh

They're just there for the halibut!

185 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:39:05pm

re: #183 Naso Tang

They would not even be there if not for fishy mathematics somewhere.

[Link: bit.ly...]

186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:40:06pm

re: #184 sattv4u2

Fishy math??
naahhh

They're just there for the halibut!

I think they are there on porpoise.

187 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 4:54:07pm

re: #186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I think they are there on porpoise.

You cod be right!

188 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:04:44pm

re: #187 sattv4u2

You cod be right!

I's herring you

189 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:23:00pm

re: #188 Naso Tang

I's herring you

Stop carping

Your just floundering for puns now!

190 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:26:00pm

re: #189 sattv4u2

Stop carping

Your just floundering for puns now!

Wahoo! That's a good one!

191 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:27:46pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

Wahoo! That's a good one!

Stop whaling about it

192 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:28:37pm

re: #190 Naso Tang

re: #191 sattv4u2

Stop whaling about it

Sorry ,, i'm being crabby now!

193 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:31:16pm

re: #191 sattv4u2

Stop whaling about it

That's just my Naso twang

194 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:33:54pm

re: #193 Naso Tang

That's just my Naso twang

Is that anything like a nose twang??

Image: p.gif

195 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:40:31pm

re: #194 sattv4u2

Is that anything like a nose twang??

Image: p.gif

I think we are perching close to the end of this thread now.

196 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:44:09pm

re: #195 Naso Tang

I think we are perching close to the end of this thread now.

Okay

I'll clam up now

197 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:47:16pm

re: #196 sattv4u2

Okay

I'll clam up now

You are conching my brain.

198 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:49:24pm

re: #197 Naso Tang

You are conching my brain.

But at least you're coming out of your shell!

199 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 5:52:04pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

But you're coming out of your shell!

Stop trouting out these musky puns.

200 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 6:02:35pm

Has your vocabulary piked, or is there still a ray of hope here?

201 danhenry1  Sat, Oct 8, 2011 7:45:04pm

re: #8 Charles

I agree with that one Charles. Ayn Rand also could have been great 'brown shirt'.
Has anyone here checked out what this Christian fellow named Jeffress has said about Romney? Heroes not think his statements were bigoted, and quotes or announces the thoughts of John Jay, a great Patriot and indeed a good Justice. This same John Jay also believed that Catholics were not 'true' Christians. So goes faith so goes Jeffress's reasoning or lack there of.
Religion, Faith... We just may be doomed.
Here is my take on the upcoming election.
I am one of those that have followed my home state's politics for years. Elizabeth Warren is going to be the next US Senator from Massachusetts. She is a heavy-weight, who will have Scott Brown for lunch in any debate.

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Oct 9, 2011 8:49:58am

re: #114 Gus 802

@Gus_802 Gus
WWII veteran taking part in #ows via @USDayofRageHI twitpic.com/6woz9s #p2 #p21 #tcot #tlot #lgf

You mean, one of those Wehrmacht dudes? At least that's what I think going by some people's comments here.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 152 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1