Herman Cain and the Glorification of Ignorance

“Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan”
Wingnuts • Views: 25,319

In today’s Republican Party, ignorance is not cause for criticism; in fact, ignorance is celebrated and glorified, and the candidates who spout the most ignorant nonsense are rewarded. This ignorance is most noticeable in their attitudes toward scientific issues such as climate change and evolution, but it also extends to foreign policy, as Herman Cain demonstrates in this interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network.

The GOP: pathetically ignorant and proud of it.

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335 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:04:13am

Ignorance is strength.

2 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:07:51am

Keeping America great and on the leading edge…

3 [deleted]  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:09:37am
4 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:10:07am

I said this in a related page:

Conservatism rewards incompetence and failure. Herman Cain embodies the Peter Principle to the nth degree.

5 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:12:01am

An ignorant electorate is their only hope.

6 shecky  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:12:25am

Gotcha question=any question I cannot answer.

7 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:14:29am

Unfortunately, millions of people watching this interview doubtlessly nodded their heads in agreement, thinking “Yeah, what do all these unimportant little countries in Eastern Europe have anything to do with me?”

8 nines09  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:14:38am

Herman seems to be sufficiently full of himself. Like to the point that there is no room left for anything or anybody else. He’d be a prime candidate to be found screaming at some one “Don’t you know who I am?”
What a gift to humanity he is.

9 Winny Spencer  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:14:53am

Mittens gave a wonderfully well-rounded speech on foreign policy three days ago.

10 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:15:42am

Your school experience must have been very different from mine if you think that the majority of Americans know or care that there is an Uzbekistan.

(Having studied Russian in college, I know what and where it is, as well as the role that Soviet minority nationalism played in the collapse of the Soviet Union. No, I don’t know the president.)

11 mr.fusion  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:16:00am

I think there’s something to be said here….that the same people who are Republicans are more likely to be devout Christians.

They have faith…..faith that tax cuts actually create jobs. Faith that scientists are lying about climate change to fatten their own pockets, faith that Barack Obama is a crazed liberal socialist, faith that ACORN stole the 2010 election and that voter fraud is a rampant problem, faith that the only racism that exists in America is reverse racism, faith that the evil liberal media is out to get them…..and on and on. All despite facts showing the exact opposite.

12 Batman  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:16:22am

Knowing the president of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan isn’t pertinent to national security until he has to meet him? Does Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan not exist until he looks there? Is he confusing Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan with Peek-aboo-istan?

13 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:17:26am

re: #11 mr.fusion

I think there’s something to be said here…that the same people who are Republicans are more likely to be devout Christians.

They have faith…faith that tax cuts actually create jobs. Faith that scientists are lying about climate change to fatten their own pockets, faith that Barack Obama is a crazed liberal socialist, faith that ACORN stole the 2010 election and that voter fraud is a rampant problem, faith that the only racism that exists in America is reverse racism, faith that the evil liberal media is out to get them…and on and on. All despite facts showing the exact opposite.

Facts are of the devil.

14 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:17:32am

re: #7 Atlas Fails

Unfortunately, millions of people watching this interview doubtlessly nodded their heads in agreement, thinking “Yeah, what do all these unimportant little countries in Eastern Europe have anything to do with me?”

“Who cares about some dumbass Archduke getting shot by an Anarchist?”

15 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:18:08am

I’ll echo what I said on the pages. The thing that is most not statesmanlike isn’t that he doesn’t know who the president of Uzbekistan or that he can’t pronounce the country’s name. It’s that he dismisses the country and other lesser known ones like it is as “insignificant.” That’s an understandable attitude from the general public but not one I want from a presidential candidate.

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:18:21am

re: #7 Atlas Fails

Unfortunately, millions of people watching this interview doubtlessly nodded their heads in agreement, thinking “Yeah, what do all these unimportant little countries in Eastern Europe have anything to do with me?”

I, personally, would place it in Asia. Yes, I did look that up, but only to be sure it was where I had thought it was. I would also put Tajikistan in Asia, but Georgia, the Ukraine, and Belarus in Eastern Europe.

17 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:19:14am

This thingamagistan - is this where Borat is from?

18 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:19:49am

“Huge oil find in previously insignificant Beki-beki-stan, local leader refuses to return Pizza Man’s call”

19 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:21:01am

re: #9 Winny Spencer

Mittens gave a wonderfully well-rounded speech on foreign policy three days ago.

Which positions did he take this week?

20 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:21:18am

re: #16 EmmmieG

I, personally, would place it in Asia. Yes, I did look that up, but only to be sure it was where I had thought it was. I would also put Tajikistan in Asia, but Georgia, the Ukraine, and Belarus in Eastern Europe.

It doesn’t matter what continent it’s on. Just as long as you know its head of state’s name before you make a diplomatic visit.

21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:21:28am

re: #17 Sergey Romanov

This thingamagistan - is this where Borat is from?

Hurr hurr what’s the difference, hurr hurr

22 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:21:41am

re: #15 HappyWarrior

I’ll echo what I said on the pages. The thing that is most not statesmanlike isn’t that he doesn’t know who the president of Uzbekistan or that he can’t pronounce the country’s name. It’s that he dismisses the country and other lesser known ones like it is as “insignificant.” That’s an understandable attitude from the general public but not one I want from a presidential candidate.

Well, it’s just not as hot and spicy as shaking another impotent fist at China or glaring meaningfully towards Iran.

23 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:21:54am

re: #19 recusancy

Which positions did he take this week?

Squatting lotus.

24 Winny Spencer  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:21:54am

re: #19 recusancy

Which positions did he take this week?

Hawkish.

25 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:23:15am

re: #21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Everything I need to know about these stans is in Borat’s documentary anyway.

26 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:23:33am

re: #24 Winny Spencer

Hawkish.

Ah. How well rounded.

27 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:23:46am

re: #22 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, it’s just not as hot and spicy as shaking another impotent fist at China or glaring meaningfully towards Iran.

Yeah pretty much. Really it’s sad that people see this guy as presidential material.

28 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:25:01am

Hey all!

Is Generic Republican ever going to appear?

How is the day going?

29 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:25:39am

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Yeah pretty much. Really it’s sad that people see this guy as presidential material.

Sadly, he’s not unique amongst the crowd, just one of the more vocal ones. So far, the GOP’s position is that everything boils down to China, Iran, and Israel. If the question is about any country other than one of those three, then it’s a “gotcha” question.

30 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:25:50am

How well do you know your Mitt Romney?

31 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:25:55am

Watching flavor of the month candidates like Cain illicit drooling from the GOP base with red meat is just going to make it all the more amusing when they realize that they have no choice but to hold their noses and hand the nomination to Romney. The resulting shitstorm from the freepers will be an instant classic.

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:26:32am

Call me cynical, but I doubt the majority of Americans care about this.

They could recite the last four winners of DWTS, but not the former parts of the Soviet Union, or the sub-Saharan African nations. South America has done us the favor of remaining pretty stable, national border-wise, so they might get the countries of South America.

Brazil, at least.

33 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:27:02am

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Yeah pretty much. Really it’s sad that people see this guy as presidential material.

I like the rift that he’s causing in the GOP.

I should rephrase that. I don’t “like” it for the country, I have Schadenfreude over it because I think they are getting what they deserve, in him, Perry, Palin, the tea party, etc.

The person who is going to have to smack down Herman Cain when he gets too popular with the 23 percenters is going to be one sad individual when that day comes.

34 [deleted]  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:28:34am
35 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:28:46am

Uzbekistan is in Central Asia, a significant landmark on the Silk Road between Europe and China.

36 jaunte  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:29:13am

Uzbekistan borders the Aral sea, one place on earth that Cain and other people who think we can hold dominion over the earth and do whatever we want without consequence should know about. Take a look at the difference in its extent between the Google map and satellite versions. It’s a man-created desert.

37 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:29:32am

Afternoon, all. It’s a lovely day here in NYC.

Here’s an interesting piece from Politico: there’s a brewing rivalry between Karl Rove and the Koch Brothers, with each planning to raise $200 million+ (!) this election cycle.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

Apparently, the Kochs think Rove is too high-profile and blame him for the apostate Bush, and Rove thinks the Koch’s are a little too extreme.

This, to me, is like the political version of the Iran - Iraq War: I hope they both lose.

38 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:29:50am

re: #32 EmmmieG

Brazil, at least.

The supermodels of Brazil.

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:30:57am

re: #32 EmmmieG

But this is not about his ignorance, but about his attitude towards said ignorance.

40 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:31:11am

re: #35 Alouette

Uzbekistan is in Central Asia, a significant landmark on the Silk Road between Europe and China.

Um, really, Alouette, don’t you know? Silk comes from the Home Shopping Network.

Just like milk comes from the store in plastic jugs.

41 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:32:07am

According to the twitterverse, James O’Keefe has showed up at the OWS demonstration in Liberty Plaza. (You knew it was just a matter of time.)

Breitbart and O’Keefe are going to these demonstrations because they know they’re hated figures. They’re trying to provoke a juicy incident for the cameras.

42 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:32:39am

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

But this is not about his ignorance, but about his attitude towards said ignorance.

Isn’t this the guy who won’t sign any bills that are longer than three pages?

That says it all.

43 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:33:12am

re: #41 Charles

According to the twitterverse, James O’Keefe has showed up at the OWS demonstration in Liberty Plaza. (You knew it was just a matter of time.)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me he wore his pimp costume!

44 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:33:44am

re: #42 garhighway

Isn’t this the guy who won’t sign any bills that are longer than three pages?

That says it all.

He also wants to tax food

45 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:34:17am

re: #41 Charles

According to the twitterverse, James O’Keefe has showed up at the OWS demonstration in Liberty Plaza. (You knew it was just a matter of time.)

Breitbart and O’Keefe are going to these demonstrations because they know they’re hated figures. They’re trying to provoke a juicy incident for the cameras.

Go to provoke a response, then promote the response as indicative of the entire movement. Exactly what Breitbart and O’Keefe do best.

46 Charleston Chew  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:34:41am

Not knowing about seemingly insignificant places is a strategic weakness. 15 years ago, before 9/11 but after the fall of the Soviet Union, Cain probably would have refered to Afghanistan as insignificant. And would Cain have cared about Yemen before the USS Cole bombing?

Also, when you come to these “insignificant” countries to ask for a favor, it’s nice to already have established a relationship and rapport with them. If you want Georgia to send 2000 troops to Iraq (adjusted for population that’s like the US sending 150,000), it’s a nice touch to say how much you like to eat Khinkali and Khachapuri.

47 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:37:19am

Is it just me, but giving Uzbekistan’s proximity to Afghanistan, a former Military Officer who served in the region, SHOULD KNOW where it is?

48 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:37:57am

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Go to provoke a response, then promote the response as indicative of the entire movement. Exactly what Breitbart and O’Keefe do best.

Youtube Video
49 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:38:20am

re: #46 Charleston Chew

Also, when you come to these “insignificant” countries to ask for a favor, it’s nice to already have established a relationship and rapport with them. If you want Georgia to send 2000 troops to Iraq (adjusted for population that’s like the US sending 150,000), it’s a nice touch to say how much you like to eat Khinkali and Khachapuri.

And probably not so nice to make fun of their country’s name.

50 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:38:30am

re: #47 ggt

Is it just me, but giving Uzbekistan’s proximity to Afghanistan, a former Military Officer who served in the region, SHOULD KNOW where it is?

I think while Cain was in the solitary, he never served near Afghanistan. Perhaps you’re thinking of Allan West.

51 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:38:38am

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Go to provoke a response, then promote the response as indicative of the entire movement. Exactly what Breitbart and O’Keefe do best.

I don’t know about that. I suspect that they aren’t that well known among the OWS crowd and will therefore not automatically generate any response at all. Instead, I suspect he is going there to interview people and try to get them to say crazy shit on camera that he can use to discredit the whole thing. (If that is what you meant by “provoking a response” then I agree, obviously.) And I have no doubt that there are at least a few people there who will say crazy shit, so he is likely to be successful.

52 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:38:59am

re: #46 Charleston Chew

If you want Georgia to send 2000 troops to Iraq (adjusted for population that’s like the US sending 150,000), it’s a nice touch to say how much you like to eat Khinkali and Khachapuri.

Pfft, I’ll just get them from Alabama.

/you knew some joke like that was coming

53 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:39:47am

re: #50 HappyWarrior

I think while Cain was in the solitary, he never served near Afghanistan. Perhaps you’re thinking of Allan West.

That other one.

54 Charleston Chew  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:39:50am

re: #29 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sadly, he’s not unique amongst the crowd, just one of the more vocal ones. So far, the GOP’s position is that everything boils down to China, Iran, and Israel. If the question is about any country other than one of those three, then it’s a “gotcha” question.

Conservative lump all foreign countries into the catchall “places that immigrants should go back to”.

55 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:40:22am

re: #50 HappyWarrior

I think while Cain was in the solitary, he never served near Afghanistan. Perhaps you’re thinking of Allan West.

ah yes, I think you are right. Both from Florida … .

56 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:40:43am

re: #54 Charleston Chew

Conservative lump all foreign countries into the catchall “places that immigrants should go back to”.

Unless they have oil.

57 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:40:45am

re: #46 Charleston Chew

Not knowing about seemingly insignificant places is a strategic weakness. 15 years ago, before 9/11 but after the fall of the Soviet Union, Cain probably would have refered to Afghanistan as insignificant. And would Cain have cared about Yemen before the USS Cole bombing?

Also, when you come to these “insignificant” countries to ask for a favor, it’s nice to already have established a relationship and rapport with them. If you want Georgia to send 2000 troops to Iraq (adjusted for population that’s like the US sending 150,000), it’s a nice touch to say how much you like to eat Khinkali and Khachapuri.

Nailed what I was thinking. Just because a country isn’t in the papers doesn’t mean it won’t be impacting the global theater. By the way a question for those Lizards who remember the late 60’s and early 70’s but did you guys see Iran being important? From what I understand about the Iranian Revolution is it took not just the public by surprise but also analysts too.

58 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:40:58am

re: #5 wrenchwench

An ignorant electorate is their only hopenot an accident.

59 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:41:51am

re: #50 HappyWarrior

I think while Cain was in the solitary, he never served near Afghanistan. Perhaps you’re thinking of Allan West.

hangs head in shame.

I had a bad night, not adequate sleep, never enough coffee, I feel so stupid right now.

60 Charleston Chew  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:42:27am

re: #41 Charles

According to the twitterverse, James O’Keefe has showed up at the OWS demonstration in Liberty Plaza. (You knew it was just a matter of time.)

Breitbart and O’Keefe are going to these demonstrations because they know they’re hated figures. They’re trying to provoke a juicy incident for the cameras.

They instinctively migrate towards things when their other-people-getting-more-attention-than-me sense starts tingling.

61 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:43:33am

re: #59 ggt

hangs head in shame.

I had a bad night, not adequate sleep, never enough coffee, I feel so stupid right now.

It’s all good. I just said that Cain was in the solitary by mistake when I meant military.

62 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:44:19am

re: #44 recusancy

He also wants to tax food

Let them eat pizza.
/

63 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:44:23am

re: #46 Charleston Chew

Not knowing about seemingly insignificant places is a strategic weakness. 15 years ago, before 9/11 but after the fall of the Soviet Union, Cain probably would have refered to Afghanistan as insignificant. And would Cain have cared about Yemen before the USS Cole bombing?

Also, when you come to these “insignificant” countries to ask for a favor, it’s nice to already have established a relationship and rapport with them. If you want Georgia to send 2000 troops to Iraq (adjusted for population that’s like the US sending 150,000), it’s a nice touch to say how much you like to eat Khinkali and Khachapuri.

“Hello Insignificant Country, we’d like to build a base in your country, then use it as part of a supply line to support our troops currently hunting terrorists in your neighbor’s country, maybe set up a secret CIA detention center there as well. That cool with you?”

64 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:44:38am

re: #61 HappyWarrior

It’s all good. I just said that Cain was in the solitary by mistake when I meant military.

Maybe he should have been …

:0

65 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:45:00am

re: #41 Charles

According to the twitterverse, James O’Keefe has showed up at the OWS demonstration in Liberty Plaza. (You knew it was just a matter of time.)

Breitbart and O’Keefe are going to these demonstrations because they know they’re hated figures. They’re trying to provoke a juicy incident for the cameras.

Breitbart heard there would be pony tails.

66 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:45:25am

Really though, is anyone surprised by this? This is the same Herman Cain who gave us “The right of return…the right of return…the right of return…the right of return…the right of return…the right of return…”

67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:45:34am

re: #64 ggt

Maybe he should have been …

:0

That again would be Allen West. /

68 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:45:54am

re: #61 HappyWarrior

It’s all good. I just said that Cain was in the solitary by mistake when I meant military.

Maybe he was in solitary when he was in the military.

And if so, do you what ensued?

Hilarity.

69 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:45:59am

re: #66 Atlas Fails

Really though, is anyone surprised by this? This is the same Herman Cain who gave us “The right of return…the right of return…the right of return…the right of return…the right of return…the right of return…”

Peter principle…

70 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:46:10am

re: #67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That again would be Allen West. /

The other black guy from Florida —G-d, I am not doing well this morning, am I?

71 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:46:12am

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“Hello Insignificant Country, we’d like to build a base in your country, then use it as part of a supply line to support our troops currently hunting terrorists in your neighbor’s country, maybe set up a secret CIA detention center there as well. That cool with you?”

Probably thinks that, if they answer “No,” he can respond with “Oh, well then my buddies in the Abrams tanks and F-15s say I can, so if it’s not cool, then I guess we’re gonna have to talk about some ‘regime change.’”

72 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:46:25am

re: #41 Charles

If he was there, I just missed him. Did see Al Sharpton holding court though:

The protests against Wall Street* continue this Columbus Day, and the numbers in attendance are bolstered because not only are schools closed today, but there’s a street fair on Broadway beginning at Liberty.

And Al Sharpton is in attendance at the OWS, and the gawkers and media are out in full force.

*and by protests against Wall Street, this includes apparently calls for Ending the Fed, railing against Israel, and pro-Native American rights.

Ignored is that these protests have cost local businesses significant amounts of money (particularly the food vendors and restaurants that ring Zuccotti Park normally), and have also cost the City $2 million in OT costs that could have gone towards social programs supposedly backed by these protesters.

73 theheat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:46:41am

I don’t see the leaders of Europe or Asia saying anything so stupid. Can you imagine Putin - even Merkel - saying something like this? This dumbed-down pandering hillbillyspeak has no place on the world stage.

74 mr.fusion  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:47:22am

re: #41 Charles

According to the twitterverse, James O’Keefe has showed up at the OWS demonstration in Liberty Plaza. (You knew it was just a matter of time.)

Breitbart and O’Keefe are going to these demonstrations because they know they’re hated figures. They’re trying to provoke a juicy incident for the cameras.

Oh, and they’ll find something. They’ll walk right up to the LaRouche-eys, or the Communists and get them to say something crazy……I’m sure there will be quotes from people that want to string up rich people or some other such nonsense. It will be highly edited, full video will show the exact opposite of what was trying to be proved and probably some good people will lose their jobs due to O’Keefe and Breitbart

And then that will be “proof” of something…..union thugs, or Obama something or other. Maybe something about New Black Panthers?

I’m waiting with bated breath

75 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:47:55am

re: #71 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Probably thinks that, if they answer “No,” he can respond with “Oh, well then my buddies in the Abrams tanks and F-15s say I can, so if it’s not cool, then I guess we’re gonna have to talk about some ‘regime change.’”

Refusal to concede to our every request = terrorist sympathizer

76 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:48:22am

re: #51 garhighway

It’s not so much the protests themselves. It’s them using the protests as a backdrop for them to insert their own prejudices and make blanket statements.

77 Charleston Chew  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:48:40am

re: #56 garhighway

Unless they have oil.

“Give me your huddled barrels of light sweet crude, yearning to combust. The wretched refuse of ancient fossilized organic materials that have been under tremendous heat and pressure for millions of years.”

78 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:49:47am

I’m actually going to praise George W.Bush here for something he did in regards to the war in Iraq even though I opposed that war. Bush seemed to value allies no matter what their size. I know many on the left and I myself was among them laughed when he said “but he forgot Poland” to Kerry at the 2004 debates but his point was legitimate. Guess this is either another sign I am growing soft on G.W Bush or that Cain’s statement shows just how far in the deep end that party has gone or maybe both.This isn’t about Uzbekistan, it’s about a disregard and ignorance of the global community.

79 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:51:23am

re: #72 lawhawk

*and by protests against Wall Street, this includes apparently calls for Ending the Fed, railing against Israel, and pro-Native American rights.

Not sure I’d lump this in with the other two. No group has been as completely fucked over European settlers/the U.S. government, with the possible exception of blacks (now THERE’S a debate).

80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:51:32am

re: #73 theheat

I don’t see the leaders of Europe or Asia saying anything so stupid. Can you imagine Putin - even Merkel - saying something like this? This dumbed-down pandering hillbillyspeak has no place on the world stage.

It won’t get one. Hell if the GOP top brass are ever going to allow him anywhere near the ticket.

81 Targetpractice  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:53:19am

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I’m actually going to praise George W.Bush here for something he did in regards to the war in Iraq even though I opposed that war. Bush seemed to value allies no matter what their size. I know many on the left and I myself was among them laughed when he said “but he forgot Poland” to Kerry at the 2004 debates but his point was legitimate. Guess this is either another sign I am growing soft on G.W Bush or that Cain’s statement shows just how far in the deep end that party has gone or maybe both.This isn’t about Uzbekistan, it’s about a disregard and ignorance of the global community.

Agreed, it’s rather sad that Dubya is looking like the smart guy in the room compared to the mouth-breathers and kiss-asses in the GOP’s current candidate pool.

82 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:54:09am

re: #74 mr.fusion

Protesters shoulda studied the civil rights movement…tried to tell people this for years…Those button-down tactics worked for a reason.

And even those are still cast as radical and a blight on society.

83 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:55:50am

The Brave New World is a Global World.

And, I don’t see any of the GOP Contenders being cognizant of that. They seem to want to work backwards—restore our “greatness” “make American strong again”. Sounds a lot like some in the ME who want to restore the Caliphate. Or the Roman’s who wanted to “restore the republic”.

AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

84 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:55:56am

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I’m actually going to praise George W.Bush here for something he did in regards to the war in Iraq even though I opposed that war. Bush seemed to value allies no matter what their size. I know many on the left and I myself was among them laughed when he said “but he forgot Poland” to Kerry at the 2004 debates but his point was legitimate. Guess this is either another sign I am growing soft on G.W Bush or that Cain’s statement shows just how far in the deep end that party has gone or maybe both.This isn’t about Uzbekistan, it’s about a disregard and ignorance of the global community.

I was less charitable. I saw the “coalition of the willing” (which had an Orwellian tone to it) as bad attempt to paper over our inability to get the Security Council on board or to get broad support from Arab countries, both in contrast to Gulf War I when his dad achieved both.

85 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:55:58am

re: #79 Atlas Fails

It’s lumped in because that’s what I saw (and limited space to drop in a quick post). There are lots of single issue protesters there - and these were two hot button issues at that.

I happen to agree that the feds and state governments have screwed over the Native American tribes repeatedly (see the failures of feds to enforce and hold up their side of the Treaty of Fort Laramie and how the Black Hills have been exploited despite promises to provide the region to the tribes) and similar failures in NYS. They were using that as an argument against believing government promises to do something/anything about the current business climate.

But what does the Israel-Palestinian issue have to do with Wall Street? Nothing.

86 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:56:14am

re: #79 Atlas Fails

Not sure I’d lump this in with the other two. No group has been as completely fucked over European settlers/the U.S. government, with the possible exception of blacks (now THERE’S a debate).

I don’t think Lawhawk is doing the lumping. And I think Israel can compete in the “fucked over” category.

87 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:57:33am

re: #81 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Agreed, it’s rather sad that Dubya is looking like the smart guy in the room compared to the mouth-breathers and kiss-asses in the GOP’s current candidate pool.

It’s so surreal for me since I was a huge Bush opponent. One may even say I had BDS for his first term. But when I see Cain talk like this about foreign states or the others engage in Islamaphobia, I realize that Bush looks like a smart and decent guy next to them. And hell it’s gotten to the other point where as a baseball fan, I am rooting for him to be the next commissioner.

88 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:58:37am

re: #87 HappyWarrior

It’s so surreal for me since I was a huge Bush opponent. One may even say I had BDS for his first term. But when I see Cain talk like this about foreign states or the others engage in Islamaphobia, I realize that Bush looks like a smart and decent guy next to them. And hell it’s gotten to the other point where as a baseball fan, I am rooting for him to be the next commissioner.

I think having grown-up with Bush Sr. as his father, he was very aware of the rest of the world.

89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:58:56am

re: #79 Atlas Fails

Not sure I’d lump this in with the other two. No group has been as completely fucked over European settlers/the U.S. government, with the possible exception of blacks (now THERE’S a debate).

Not really.

Some of them enslaved us, some of us were Buffalo Soldiers, most of us are either Baptists or Methodists, and what whites-rule government denied us, they crammed down their throats.

Oh yeah, and those lines of “who’s black” and “who’s an Indian” aren’t so easily drawn, either.

400 years of f’d history in a couple sentences. :)

90 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 10:59:02am

I always thought two years in the Senate and community organizing was pretty thin experience to be President. Heck, I can still make a good argument that is part of the problem with Obama. But opinions like that having been said, Obama is far more qualified by comparison.

Why dumb down again?

91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:01:27am

re: #85 lawhawk

But what does the Israel-Palestinian issue have to do with Wall Street? Nothing.

It’s ANSWER and those BDS types. They shovel that crud into every protest they do. In fact, I think that’s the only reason they bother to protest is to dust off those old signs.

92 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:01:38am

re: #84 garhighway

I was less charitable. I saw the “coalition of the willing” (which had an Orwellian tone to it) as bad attempt to paper over our inability to get the Security Council on board or to get broad support from Arab countries, both in contrast to Gulf War I when his dad achieved both.

I was going to bring up H.W.

Regardless of one’s opinions about GW1, Bush Sr. did it right. He put Jim Baker on a plane and didn’t let him come home until he had a real coalition.

It was the last use of ‘shuttle diplomacy’ we’ve seen, and it worked.

93 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:02:15am

Breaking News: Bavarian Ministry of Interior confirmed that the German government trojan exposed by the CCC came out of Bavaria.

94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:02:29am

re: #90 Rightwingconspirator

I always thought two years in the Senate and community organizing was pretty thin experience to be President. Heck, I can still make a good argument that is part of the problem with Obama. But opinions like that having been said, Obama is far more qualified by comparison.

Why dumb down again?

Won’t happen.

95 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:03:25am

re: #94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What won’t happen? We won’t dumb down experience wise?

96 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:03:53am

re: #84 garhighway

I was less charitable. I saw the “coalition of the willing” (which had an Orwellian tone to it) as bad attempt to paper over our inability to get the Security Council on board or to get broad support from Arab countries, both in contrast to Gulf War I when his dad achieved both.

Well that’s where I was too and don’t get me wrong. I still have my problems with the Bush Doctrine but things like this make Bush look refreshing compared with this current field.

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:04:28am

re: #95 Rightwingconspirator

What won’t happen? We won’t dumb down experience wise?

Cain as the nominee won’t happen.

98 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:06:06am

re: #93 000G

Breaking News: Bavarian Ministry of Interior confirmed that the German government trojan exposed by the CCC came out of Bavaria.

Brandenburg confirms use of the trojan as well.

99 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:06:36am

re: #98 000G

Brandenburg confirms use of the trojan as well.

I blame Oktoberfest.

Oh, those kooky Germans.

100 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:06:51am

re: #97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ah. I agree.

101 bubba zanetti  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:06:57am

Reminds me of this Chris Rock routine:

Youtube Video

See 3:00 in.

102 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:09:37am

BBL

103 laZardo  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:10:12am

re: #99 EmmmieG

I blame Oktoberfest.

Oh, those kooky Germans.

I blame the Nazis.

/inevitable godwin, check

104 Iwouldprefernotto  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:12:13am

re: #51 garhighway

I don’t know about that. I suspect that they aren’t that well known among the OWS crowd and will therefore not automatically generate any response at all. Instead, I suspect he is going there to interview people and try to get them to say crazy shit on camera that he can use to discredit the whole thing. (If that is what you meant by “provoking a response” then I agree, obviously.) And I have no doubt that there are at least a few people there who will say crazy shit, so he is likely to be successful.

Doesn’t matter what people say or do, because he can always edit the crap out of it.

105 leftynyc  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:17:09am

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I’m actually going to praise George W.Bush here for something he did in regards to the war in Iraq even though I opposed that war. Bush seemed to value allies no matter what their size. I know many on the left and I myself was among them laughed when he said “but he forgot Poland” to Kerry at the 2004 debates but his point was legitimate. Guess this is either another sign I am growing soft on G.W Bush or that Cain’s statement shows just how far in the deep end that party has gone or maybe both.This isn’t about Uzbekistan, it’s about a disregard and ignorance of the global community.

Not so much. Or do you not remember rummy’s dis of “old Europe”?

106 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:18:48am

re: #105 leftynyc

Not so much. Or do you not remember rummy’s dis of “old Europe”?

True that. I was being overly charitable I guess. As I said, they’ve really gone off the deep end.

107 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:22:04am

re: #106 HappyWarrior

True that. I was being overly charitable I guess. As I said, they’ve really gone off the deep end.

There was a reason our standing took a hit throughout the world - including the parts that we weren’t invading or declaring war on.

108 Lidane  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:22:44am

re: #9 Winny Spencer

Mittens gave a wonderfully well-rounded speech on foreign policy three days ago.

Too bad for Mitt that everyone else was paying more attention to his Mormonism.

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:23:39am

Now, all you people making fun of Mr. Cain, do YOU know who the president of Ubekibekibekistanstan is?

110 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:24:17am

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, all you people making fun of Mr. Cain, do YOU know who the president of Ubekibekibekistanstan is?

Yes.

111 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:24:27am

re: #108 Lidane

Oddly, Huntsman got more noticed on foreign policy

112 Tigger2  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:26:18am

It’s history repeating itself, It’s the rebirth of the know nothing party.

113 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:26:24am

re: #111 Rightwingconspirator

Oddly, Huntsman got more noticed on foreign policy

Middle ground?

Huntsman: I Would Attack To Prevent A Nuclear-Armed Iran

114 Lidane  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:26:27am

re: #111 Rightwingconspirator

Oddly, Huntsman got more noticed on foreign policy

Being Obama’s former ambassador to China gives him a soapbox.

Unfortunately, that’s all it gives him. It’s not translating into poll numbers.

115 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:27:51am

Huntsman’s foreign policy seems more practical than Romney’s which seems to be the usual bs. Huntsman’s not going to get anywhere near the nomination though.

116 erik_t  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:28:20am

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, all you people making fun of Mr. Cain, do YOU know who the president of Ubekibekibekistanstan is?

Islamislamislam Karimovkarimov?

/yes of course I had to look it up

117 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:28:23am

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Middle ground?

Huntsman: I Would Attack To Prevent A Nuclear-Armed Iran

Don’t forget this part.
Huntsman also called for strong relations with Israel and passage of free trade bills pending in Congress. He said he backed a broader use of free trade, citing the need for more agreements with Japan, Taiwan and a heightened Trans-Pacific Partnership trade accord with Australia, Brunei, Chile, Malaysia, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.

118 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:29:19am

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Middle ground?

Huntsman: I Would Attack To Prevent A Nuclear-Armed Iran

Heck Saudi Arabia might do that.

119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:29:29am

re: #112 Tigger2

It’s history repeating itself, It’s the rebirth of the know nothing party.

It really is.

I see the tea party as right in line with those frothing bigots.

120 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:29:35am

Wow, that was like sticking my hand in the “Pain Box” from Dune.
I didn’t last long…

121 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:29:53am

Here’s why David Frum says he remains a Republican:

* Flag waving
* Our policies suck now but they’ll totally be better later
* Killing brown people
* Jimmy Carter!
* The white man can’t catch a break
* Conservatives are actually environmentalists
* Unions!
* I’m made about last century
* I like rich people
* The ideology of less government is better than the reality of governing

122 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:30:40am

re: #114 Lidane

Being Obama’s former ambassador to China gives him a soapbox.

Unfortunately, that’s all it gives him. It’s not translating into poll numbers.

Sadly, yeah, that’s why I said “oddly”

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:31:34am

re: #10 EmmmieG

Your school experience must have been very different from mine if you think that the majority of Americans know or care that there is an Uzbekistan.

(Having studied Russian in college, I know what and where it is, as well as the role that Soviet minority nationalism played in the collapse of the Soviet Union. No, I don’t know the president.)

Guy named Islam Karimov. He is the only president Uzbekistan has ever had, apparently. No, I didn’t know that before. Google is a wonderful thing.

I don’t demand that every president be a foreign policy wonk, and “I’m the domestic jobs guy, I’ll find good people to fill in my weak spots” is perfectly reasonable. But…Ubekibekibekistanstan! (This is my new cuss word.)

I did, however, hold it against Sarah Palin when she couldn’t explain the Bush doctrine. I also held it against Dennis Prager when he defended her over it.

124 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:32:12am

re: #120 OhNoZombies!

Wow, that was like sticking my hand in the “Pain Box” from Dune.
I didn’t last long…

Animal.

125 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:33:36am

re: #124 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Grrrrr!
;-)

126 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:34:20am

US stocks soar amid optimism over Europe

imminent collapse of euro-socialism and chilling effect of talking about raising taxes suspended for the afternoon while wall st prints money and gets high

127 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:35:01am

re: #4 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I said this in a related page:

Conservatism rewards incompetence and failure. Herman Cain embodies the Peter Principle to the nth degree.

Cain might fit the Peter Principle if he became president. But he has, for the span of his life up til now, been highly effective. He made his way in the technical world, code and math and stuff. He then made his way in the business world. At the work he’s done for all of his life until he went into politics, he’s been anything but incompetent.

Now, he’s running for the Republican nomination. He stands higher in the polls than Rick Perry. Now being better than Rick Perry is no tall order. But beating him in a political contest is easier said than done.

So it would be wrong to describe Cain as incompetent at the work of campaigning for his party’s nomination. He probably won’t be the nominee, but he’ll be one of the last challengers standing.

I have no patience with the habit of charging as racist everyone who has anything negative to say about any black man. Black men, like men of other skin colors, come in all sizes and shapes and there can be much to criticize. But where, where, where is the basis for saying that Cain has been incompetent at everything he ever did? Or that he is ignorant across the board?

He’s ignorant when it comes to climate science. This is a grave fault. But it doesn’t extend to ignorance a la Sarah Palin.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:35:10am

re: #17 Sergey Romanov

I was once teaching a class on the Russian Revolution, when a kid raised his hand and said, “Mrs. SFZ, how come you don’t teach us more about Kazhakstan?” Then he and his friend snickered.

I thought, “Why does he care about Kazhakstan?” (This was not the world’s most academically driven child.) Then I realized. So I told him, “Giuseppe, the only things I know about Kazhakstan is that they are the best country in the world, and all other nations are ruled by little girls. But I can try to put together a lesson for next week if you’d like to learn more.”

That shut them up for the rest of the class, since they had fully not expected me to have ever seen Borat.

I’m not sure they knew it was a real place.

129 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:35:48am

I understand that America long had an inferiority complex towards Europe when it came to anything cultural or intellectual. We still maintain a bit of that attitude today, which I can find refreshing at times.

But this anti-science, anti-history, anti-intellectual stance that the GOP has been embracing in order to posture itself as the party of Joe Sixpack has begun to taken on absolutly embarassing (for the rest of us) and dangerious (for all of us) proportions.

BTW, I once had a girlfriend in Moscow, half Tatar. Her name was Galina Gaidarovna Fetkhetdinovna, which she told me meant “the triumph of Islam” in Tatarstani.

All I could say was “Je-e-e-e-e-e-ehad, baby!”

130 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:36:06am

re: #121 recusancy

Wow. That’s a pretty harsh review there. Where is the kill Brown people part?

131 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:36:35am

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, all you people making fun of Mr. Cain, do YOU know who the president of Ubekibekibekistanstan is?

A former communist apparatchik, Islam Karimov has been the president and increasingly heavy-handed dictator of Uzbekistan since independence in 1990. Name not withstanding, he is noted for strongly anti-Islamic policies.

I did know that before I googled him, fwiw.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:36:45am

re: #36 jaunte

Uzbekistan borders the Aral sea, one place on earth that Cain and other people who think we can hold dominion over the earth and do whatever we want without consequence should know about. Take a look at the difference in its extent between the Google map and satellite versions. It’s a man-created desert.

This reminds me of the scene in the second Bridget Jones book, where the ex claims to have broken up with her because you can’t love a person who can’t find Germany on a map.

133 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:38:10am

a matter of fact statement from msnbc just in case anybody was inclined to believe tea part lies about social security:

A new analysis from the Center for Economic and Policy Research finds that less than 6 percent of workers would be affected if the government lifted the cap on Social Security taxes and applied it to earnings above $106,800.

Currently, taxpayers pay their share of Social Security taxes only on earnings up to $106,800. Any earnings above that are exempt from the tax.

Another plan that’s been tossed around would be to just charge Social Security tax on earnings of more than $250,000, but not to charge the tax on earnings between $106,800 and $250,000.

That plan would affect a little more than 1 percent of workers, the liberal-leaning think tank found in its analysis of the most recent American Community Survey data.

The move could potentially add trillions of dollars to Social Security coffers over the next 75 years, according to CEPR.

[Link: lifeinc.today.com…]

134 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:38:20am

re: #127 lostlakehiker

Cain might fit the Peter Principle if he became president.

Your party will not let Cain anywhere near the ticket.

I have no patience with the habit of charging as racist everyone who has anything negative to say about any black man. Black men, like men of other skin colors, come in all sizes and shapes and there can be much to criticize. But where, where, where is the basis for saying that Cain has been incompetent at everything he ever did? Or that he is ignorant across the board?

What are you even talking about?

I said none of that in my post, and I’ve never said anything like that about Herman Cain. Don’t be so oversensitive.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:38:57am

re: #73 theheat

I don’t see the leaders of Europe or Asia saying anything so stupid. Can you imagine Putin - even Merkel - saying something like this? This dumbed-down pandering hillbillyspeak has no place on the world stage.

I can see Putin saying it to make Uzbekistan mad.

I can’t see Merkel saying it at all. I am sure she always got 100% on her geography quizzes as a child.

136 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:39:44am

Radical leftists support terrorist….
‘Occupy’ protesters branch out

The downtown protest group Occupy Boston threw its proverbial doors open yesterday, and played host to supporters of accused terrorist Terak Mehanna, who are looking to raise awareness of the Sudbury man’s upcoming trial.

The Tarek Mehanna Support Committee came to Occupy Boston’s ever-evolving tent city on the Rose Kennedy Greenway to say Mehanna, a Muslim American pharmacist, is a victim of anti-Muslim sentiment.

Alleged U.S. Terrorist Tarek Mehanna

federal authorities arrested 27-year-old Massachusetts resident Tarek Mehanna on charges that he conspired to provide material support to terrorists and planned to carry out a “violent jihad” by killing U.S. politicians, attacking American troops in Iraq and targeting customers at U.S. shopping malls. U.S. attorneys claim that Mehanna worked with two other men on various plans designed to “kill, kidnap, maim or injure” U.S. citizens and soldiers from 2001 to 2008

137 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:40:32am

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Huntsman’s foreign policy seems more practical than Romney’s which seems to be the usual bs. Huntsman’s not going to get anywhere near the nomination though.

Not this time around. But wait and see. If Romney becomes president, Huntsman will be in his cabinet. If Obama wins reelection in a landslide because Perry was the Republican nominee, a chastened Republican party might look to the middle for its next try. If Perry wins, well, Huntsman will be out of luck. Along with the rest of us.

138 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:40:41am

re: #127 lostlakehiker

I have no patience with the habit of charging as racist everyone who has anything negative to say about any black man.

How about assholes who talk about black people in general, who say they’ve been brainwashed?

139 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:41:23am

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

I was once teaching a class on the Russian Revolution, when a kid raised his hand and said, “Mrs. SFZ, how come you don’t teach us more about Kazhakstan?” Then he and his friend snickered.

I thought, “Why does he care about Kazhakstan?” (This was not the world’s most academically driven child.) Then I realized. So I told him, “Giuseppe, the only things I know about Kazhakstan is that they are the best country in the world, and all other nations are ruled by little girls. But I can try to put together a lesson for next week if you’d like to learn more.”

That shut them up for the rest of the class, since they had fully not expected me to have ever seen Borat.

I’m not sure they knew it was a real place.

That’s hilarious stuff there. Totally disarmed the kid. I was watching the movie Air Force One again a couple years back and the terrorists in that movie led by Gary Oldman were Kazakhs.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:41:46am

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I’m actually going to praise George W.Bush here for something he did in regards to the war in Iraq even though I opposed that war. Bush seemed to value allies no matter what their size. I know many on the left and I myself was among them laughed when he said “but he forgot Poland” to Kerry at the 2004 debates but his point was legitimate. Guess this is either another sign I am growing soft on G.W Bush or that Cain’s statement shows just how far in the deep end that party has gone or maybe both.This isn’t about Uzbekistan, it’s about a disregard and ignorance of the global community.

George Bush is one of those people I like better now that he is out of office, and the decisions he made that I didn’t like can be regarded as faits accomplis.

141 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:41:56am

re: #136 Killgore Trout

I assume that anyone with any sense would have seen this angle of attack bearing down on OWS as soon as it became a media phenomenon.

Once again, it has become a canvas upon which the conservative right can project everything it sees wrong about America: coddling criminals/terrorists, ingrateful, spoiled kids/unions, no respect for working people and their property, etc., etc…

142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:42:50am

re: #141 ralphieboy

Same old scapegoating, different millennium.

143 laZardo  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:42:56am

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

George Bush is one of those people I like better now that he is out of office, and the decisions he made that I didn’t like can be regarded as faits accomplis.

Operative word being Bush administration.

144 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:43:08am

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Radical leftists support terrorist…
‘Occupy’ protesters branch out

Alleged U.S. Terrorist Tarek Mehanna

lol
Boston Sass Attack - Free Tarek.mov

Youtube Video
145 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:43:21am

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Radical leftists support terrorist…
‘Occupy’ protesters branch out

Alleged U.S. Terrorist Tarek Mehanna

On The Same Day Romney Announces Advisers, One Of Them Appears In Ad Promoting An Iranian Terror Group

As ThinkProgress noted in August, one of GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s top foreign policy advisers has taken an active role in a campaign of advocacy for a controversial Iranian exile group listed by the State Department as a “Foreign Terrorist Organization” (FTO).

Mitchell Reiss, a former Bush administration State Department official, has spoken at events and moderated at least two panels making the case that the Mujahedeen-e Khalq (MEK), a formerly-Islamic Marxist armed revolutionary group now claiming to renounce violence and preaching democracy, should be removed from the U.S. terror rolls.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:43:31am

re: #79 Atlas Fails

Not sure I’d lump this in with the other two. No group has been as completely fucked over European settlers/the U.S. government, with the possible exception of blacks (now THERE’S a debate).

It depends. Are they promoting something specific that will help Native Americans, or are they throwing this in because someone pointed out to them that New York and Chicago and the rest of the country are all stolen land anyway, and occupying it could be seen as not necessarily all that cool?

147 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:43:35am

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Occupy Boston hosted the pro-Mehanna rally, but, officially, the leaderless group doesn’t have a position on the case.

This kind of bullshit shows the failure of the decision-making process. If you don’t have a position on the accused terrorist, then don’t host an event for him. Because, that’s taking a position.

Da-hoy.

148 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:44:14am

re: #130 Rightwingconspirator

Wow. That’s a pretty harsh review there. Where is the kill Brown people part?

That one may have been lazy snark on my part. It went in order. He wants military fully funded before any discussions about anything else.

149 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:44:19am

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Radical leftists support terrorist…

This is like saying Troy Davis advocates support killing cops.

150 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:44:44am

re: #138 goddamnedfrank

How about assholes who talk about black people in general, who say they’ve been brainwashed?

You don’t really expect an answer from lostlakehiker on this, right?

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:45:32am

re: #85 lawhawk

But what does the Israel-Palestinian issue have to do with Wall Street? Nothing.

The Palestinian cause has been very successfully grafted to, well, everything, at this point. We had speakers for a while connecting the killing of Oscar Grant to the Palestinians.

152 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:45:55am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On The Same Day Romney Announces Advisers, One Of Them Appears In Ad Promoting An Iranian Terror Group

Marxists!

153 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:46:23am

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

It depends. Are they promoting something specific that will help Native Americans, or are they throwing this in because someone pointed out to them that New York and Chicago and the rest of the country are all stolen land anyway, and occupying it could be seen as not necessarily all that cool?

Honestly, they’re probably doing it because it’s Columbus Day and trendy. Doesn’t change the fact that Native Americans have spent the better part of 500 years getting shat on.

154 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:46:38am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On The Same Day Romney Announces Advisers, One Of Them Appears In Ad Promoting An Iranian Terror Group

Holy shit. That’s some synchronicity.

Big difference? Romney’s dude is A) getting paid shitloads by his terrorists, I’m sure, and B) in a position to actually influence policy for that terrorist group.

Damn. And Marxist group, too? Can you imagine if Obama’s advisors were tied to a Marxist revolutionary group?

Hey, Killgore, turns out everyone is associating with Marxists. Who knew?

155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:47:10am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On The Same Day Romney Announces Advisers, One Of Them Appears In Ad Promoting An Iranian Terror Group

“The People’s Mujahideen.”

Swell. [Link: www.evenworsethanTheGreenBook.com…]

156 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:47:11am

re: #152 recusancy

Maxists!

Radical leftists named advisers to Romney campaign…

157 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:47:21am

re: #133 engineer dog

a matter of fact statement from msnbc just in case anybody was inclined to believe tea part lies about social security:

A new analysis from the Center for Economic and Policy Research finds that less than 6 percent of workers would be affected if the government lifted the cap on Social Security taxes and applied it to earnings above $106,800.

Currently, taxpayers pay their share of Social Security taxes only on earnings up to $106,800. Any earnings above that are exempt from the tax.

Another plan that’s been tossed around would be to just charge Social Security tax on earnings of more than $250,000, but not to charge the tax on earnings between $106,800 and $250,000.

That plan would affect a little more than 1 percent of workers, the liberal-leaning think tank found in its analysis of the most recent American Community Survey data.

The move could potentially add trillions of dollars to Social Security coffers over the next 75 years, according to CEPR.

[Link: lifeinc.today.com…]

It would be simpler to nullify social security benefits for those with private savings or pensions, means testing the program. That would save many, many trillions.

This assumes, in the spirit of CBO budget scoring, that no one would adjust their savings and spending habits to take into account the new rules.

But hey, the lift-the-cap rule also assumes that an extra 12 or 14 percent tax on high earners, along with Biden’s extra 5 percent, various local authorities’ extra percents, and so on, cannot have any effect on earnings behavior.

And spare us the fiction that the employer pays half that 12 or 14 percent. These taxes amount to the exact same thing no matter whether it’s recorded on the books as a tax on one party, or the other, or split.

158 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:47:35am

re: #154 Obdicut

Holy shit. That’s some synchronicity.

Big difference? Romney’s dude is A) getting paid shitloads by his terrorists, I’m sure, and B) in a position to actually influence policy for that terrorist group.

Damn. And Marxist group, too? Can you imagine if Obama’s advisors were tied to a Marxist revolutionary group?

Hey, Killgore, turns out everyone is associating with Marxists. Who knew?

VAN JONES!!!1

159 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:47:57am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On The Same Day Romney Announces Advisers, One Of Them Appears In Ad Promoting An Iranian Terror Group

So this means Romney is a Marxist right?

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:48:10am

re: #149 Atlas Fails

This is like saying Troy Davis advocates support killing cops.

Well, what do you know, Killgore thinks exactly that.

161 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:48:23am

re: #159 HappyWarrior

So this means Romney is a Marxist right?

Mormon Marxists are the worst.

162 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:49:10am

re: #161 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mormon Marxists are the worst.

Yeah at least the atheist ones are fun when you pry them with vodka. Good luck getting a Mormon Marxist to drink even a coke.

163 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:49:18am

re: #149 Atlas Fails

This is like saying Troy Davis advocates support killing cops.

Well?!

Don’t they!??!

164 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:49:39am

I honestly didn’t know that were even that many Marxists left, to associate with. Wow. Um, John Bolton also supports the group.

I guess it’s because they’re an ex-Islamist group, and Marxism, I guess, is a good thing when it’s in the Middle East and the religion they’ll be attacking is Islam?

I’m confused.

165 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:51:31am

re: #153 Atlas Fails

Honestly, they’re probably doing it because it’s Columbus Day and trendy. Doesn’t change the fact that Native Americans have spent the better part of 500 years getting shat on.

Yeah.

Sigh.

The problem is that tomorrow it won’t be Columbus Day any more, and the shitting will continue.

166 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:51:48am

re: #152 recusancy

Marxists!

Oops. That Marxist juice is splashing on everybody lately.

Is this a new sub-thread for KT? I mean, Marxists are Marxists, right?

//

167 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:51:50am

re: #157 lostlakehiker

And spare us the fiction that the employer pays half that 12 or 14 percent. These taxes amount to the exact same thing no matter whether it’s recorded on the books as a tax on one party, or the other, or split.

So it’s a fiction either way? They’re both paying the whole thing?

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:52:04am

re: #155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

“The People’s Mujahideen.”

Swell. [Link: www.evenworsethanTheGreenBook.com…]

SPLITTERS!!

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:53:34am

re: #164 Obdicut

I honestly didn’t know that were even that many Marxists left, to associate with. Wow. Um, John Bolton also supports the group.

I guess it’s because they’re an ex-Islamist group, and Marxism, I guess, is a good thing when it’s in the Middle East and the religion they’ll be attacking is Islam?

I’m confused.

Yes. It used to be that communism was the worst thing in the world, so we armed Islamic fundamentalists to the teeth to fight that. Now Islamic fundamentalism is the worst thing in the world, so we are arming the commies.

I wish I could say that this is a gross oversimplification, but I think I may have actually summed the whole thing up.

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:53:43am

All the blacks who were glad that OJ was “found innocent” - they obviously supported a cold-blooded murderer. Which proves … something or other. Mumble mumble.

171 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:54:05am

re: #166 makeitstop

Oops. That Marxist juice is splashing on everybody lately.

Is this a new sub-thread for KT? I mean, Marxists are Marxists, right?

//

I look forward to KT’s diatribes against Mitt Romney

172 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:55:14am

[Link: www.csmonitor.com…]

They rarely mention the MEK’s violent and anti-American past, and portray the group not as terrorists but as freedom fighters with “values just like us,” as democrats-in-waiting ready to serve as a vanguard of regime change in Iran. Some acknowledge that they knew little about the group before they were invited to speak and were coached by MEK supporters.

Their efforts may be working: Knowledgeable officials say the millions of dollars spent on the campaign have raised political pressure to remove the MEK from the Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) list to the highest levels since the group – whose record includes assassinations of US military advisers and attacks on US diplomats – was one of the first to be put there in 1997.

But the delisting of the MEK, Iran experts say, could benefit Iran’s hard-line rulers by giving them more reason to brutally clamp down on Iran’s internal, nonviolent opposition. The Green Movement – which led street protests in 2009 – steadfastly rejects the MEK as an anti-democratic and violent force.

These are the guys that Bolton and Romney’s guy are going to bat for. And being paid reportedly huge amounts of money to do it. And they’re on a terrorist watch list. What the hell?

. Experts say that MEK has increasingly come to resemble a cult that is devoted to Massoud Rajavi’s secular interpretation of the Koran and is prone to sudden, dramatic ideological shifts.

Oh, that sounds great. We should be best friends with them. Who doesn’t like a nice cult?

173 Lidane  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:55:14am

Finally! A Real Murikan in politics!

Joe The Plumber Is Running For Congress

174 Atlas Fails  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:55:15am

re: #165 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah.

Sigh.

The problem is that tomorrow it won’t be Columbus Day any more, and the shitting will continue.

Yeah, it’s a shame that the modern conversation on Native American rights has been reduced to Columbus Day and Leonard Peltier.

175 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:55:33am

Well I’ve pointed out in the past that the Serbian war criminals that Geller and Spencer support and apologize for were members of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia. It’s true that membership in the party was mandatory for those coming of age in the Cold War but it’s also funny to know that Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer support people who have actually been members of a Communist party.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:55:42am

re: #171 recusancy

I look forward to KT’s diatribes against Mitt Romney

He doesn’t need to, does he? People here already are willing to believe bad things about Mitt.

177 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:56:14am

re: #171 recusancy

I look forward to KT’s diatribes against Mitt Romney

Oh, I’m certain Killgore finds this plenty moronic. I’ve never heard Killgore say a nice thing about Romney.

178 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:58:09am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

I can see Putin saying it to make Uzbekistan mad.

I can’t see Merkel saying it at all. I am sure she always got 100% on her geography quizzes as a child.

We went by the German deli in Portland on Saturday. The saleslady (a German) said Thank You! and Have a Nice Day!

I was pretty sure I had just been ordered to be thanked and to have a nice day. I was a bit scared to not have a nice day after that.

179 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:59:06am

Google wants your help in spotting political trends

180 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 11:59:17am
American antipathy to the MEK stretches back four decades, when it was first formed in the 1960s with an anti-US, Marxist-Islamist ideology. Violent “armed struggle” was glorified from the start.

The group assassinated at least six US military advisers and citizens in Iran in the 1970s, supported the Islamic revolution and then the seizure of the American Embassy in 1979, and tried to block any deal with what it then called “the US, this satanic force threatening the world … the main adversary.”

US government documents frequently use the term “cult-like” when describing the MEK, and describe “years of ideological training” for members akin to “brainwashing.” The MEK has long denied that it is a cult and routinely charges critics with being agents of the Islamic Republic.

The MEK says it renounced violence in 2001, after claiming responsibility for 350 attacks in 2000 and 2001, according to a RAND tabulation. It is not known to have carried out any attacks for several years, though a 2004 FBI report found that the group was “currently actively involved in planning and executing acts of terrorism.”

And Dean appears to like that cash too.

Howard Dean, the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, hailed Rajavi in Berlin last March.

“Madame Rajavi does not sound like a terrorist to me; she sounds like a president,” Mr. Dean said, gesturing toward the MEK leader from the dais. “And her organization should not be listed as a terrorist organization. We should be recognizing her as the president of Iran.

Mr. Dean confirmed to the Monitor that he received payment for his appearances, but said the focus on high pay was “a diversion inspired by those with a different view.”

Can we stop selling government access to terrorist groups from Iran, please? I’d like that.

181 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:00:10pm

re: #178 EmmmieG

We went by the German deli in Portland on Saturday. The saleslady (a German) said Thank You! and Have a Nice Day!

I was pretty sure I had just been ordered to be thanked and to have a nice day. I was a bit scared to not have a nice day after that.

It’s a mean sounding language. That said, the Austrians and Germans I met in Austria and Germany were very nice to me. And one even helped me out when I was lost in Vienna. Scary, scary times.

182 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:00:21pm

re: #177 Obdicut

Oh, I’m certain Killgore finds this plenty moronic. I’ve never heard Killgore say a nice thing about Romney.

Probably true. I guess it’s the passion and visceral anger that I find oddly misplaced. But to each his own.

183 Ming  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:00:32pm

There’s a possible explanation for why many of today’s Republicans celebrate and glorify ignorance. It may be tribal. Who belongs to the tribe, and who is an enemy of the tribe?

If someone in the tribe (e.g. Rush Limbaugh) says something factual, there’s no social benefit to agreeing with it. E.g. if Rush Limbaugh says that space exploration sometimes leads to useful scientific discoveries, don’t expect to see Republican candidates eagerly jumping on that bandwagon. (I have no idea if Rush said anything of the kind.)

But if someone in the tribe says something ignorant, stupid, and plain wrong, then AGREEING WITH THAT IS A WAY TO SAY THAT YOU BELONG. If Michele Bachmann says that the HPV vaccine may cause mental retardation, and if you jump on that bandwagon with enthusiasm and glee, you are saying: ANYONE (member of the tribe or not) can agree with a reasonable statement. But I am agreeing with an unreasonable statement! I am also, by implication, saying that Michele Bachmann did nothing wrong, nothing wrong at all, by casting doubt on a vaccine, and thereby discouraging many parents from allowing their children to get the vaccine. By going so far as to imply that I really don’t care if a few children die of HPV as a result of Michele Bachmann’s ignorance, this shows that I totally BELONG TO THE TRIBE.

The point is that the more outrageous / irresponsible the statement, and the more outrageous / irresponsible my agreement, the more strongly I announce: I am a member of the tribe.

184 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:00:48pm

re: #164 Obdicut

I honestly didn’t know that were even that many Marxists left, to associate with. Wow. Um, John Bolton also supports the group.

I guess it’s because they’re an ex-Islamist group, and Marxism, I guess, is a good thing when it’s in the Middle East and the religion they’ll be attacking is Islam?

I’m confused.

I think they want to use it as a proxy group to fuck with the Iranian regime.

185 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:01:32pm

re: #174 Atlas Fails

Yeah, it’s a shame that the modern conversation on Native American rights has been reduced to Columbus Day and Leonard Peltier.

Not in Indian Country, it hasn’t.

Also, I saw where Soledad O’Brien is doing a special in November on the Cherokee Freedman and the Cherokee Nation.

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

That has to be some of the world’s most convoluted history. There are some Pages on it.

186 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:01:47pm

re: #172 Obdicut

Oh, that sounds great. We should be best friends with them. Who doesn’t like a nice cult?

Well, Romney already belongs to a cult and that’s why they like each other.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:02:27pm

re: #186 makeitstop

It’s the rules. All cult members like all other cult members. Regardless of what cult they belong to.

188 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:03:05pm

re: #180 Obdicut

And Dean appears to like that cash too.

Can we stop selling government access to terrorist groups from Iran, please? I’d like that.

I’ve honestly never been a big Howard Dean fan. It is interesting though to see his name on the same paper as John Bolton’s though.

189 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:03:25pm

re: #182 recusancy

Probably true. I guess it’s the passion and visceral anger that I find oddly misplaced. But to each his own.

I’ve always been opposed to al Qaeda and its supporters. If that happens to include radical American leftists then I’m just as enthusiastic.

190 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:03:47pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

I think they want to use it as a proxy group to fuck with the Iranian regime.

Yep. Because that has no chance of blowing up in our face. Sheesh. It’s like they want to steadfastly ignore the history of trying to get too clever in the Middle East. Piss off the Green Revolution guys by lobbing people they find their ideological enemies— really smart.

191 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:06:18pm

re: #190 Obdicut

Our foreign policy in a nutshell.
“This won’t come back to bite us in the ass. Well, it probably won’t. It’s not like we’ve never done this before! This time will be different. Maybe.”

192 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:06:43pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

I think they want to use it as a proxy group to fuck with the Iranian regime.

When has supporting a terrorist group to strike against our enemies ever turned out bad for us in the long run? It worked out great against Russia back in the 80s.

///

193 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:06:46pm

re: #157 lostlakehiker

It would be simpler to nullify social security benefits for those with private savings or pensions, means testing the program. That would save many, many trillions.

This assumes, in the spirit of CBO budget scoring, that no one would adjust their savings and spending habits to take into account the new rules.

But hey, the lift-the-cap rule also assumes that an extra 12 or 14 percent tax on high earners, along with Biden’s extra 5 percent, various local authorities’ extra percents, and so on, cannot have any effect on earnings behavior.

And spare us the fiction that the employer pays half that 12 or 14 percent. These taxes amount to the exact same thing no matter whether it’s recorded on the books as a tax on one party, or the other, or split.

if the employer for some reason no longer had to pay their 6.5% half share of the tax, do you think they would give it to you - or keep it? please!

also, the added tax burden would of course be a marginal additional 6.5% on the income over $106,500. if you game this out, you can see that a person making $200,000 is now paying an additional $5,500 per year, less than i pay per year in property taxes

“amounts to just the same thing” is just a meaningless phrase that you think somehow justifies you thinking of the employee contribution plus the employer contribution as falling all on the employee. but it doesn’t

194 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:07:42pm

re: #190 Obdicut

er Lobbying for = lobbing. But that’s a pretty fun typo.

195 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:08:17pm

re: #194 Obdicut

er Lobbying for = lobbing. But that’s a pretty fun typo.

Made sense either way.
;)

196 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:08:43pm

Well, I’ve decided that my allergy symptoms might be a little more than allergy.

Off to take meds and sleep.

Have a great afternoon all!

197 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:08:56pm

re: #190 Obdicut

Piss off the Green Revolution guys by lobbing people they find their ideological enemies— really smart.

No problem. We simply release wave after wave of chinese needle snakes.

198 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:08:59pm

CORPSE NEAR BUCKINGHAM PALACE WENT UNNOTICED FOR 3 YEARS

A gardener working for London’s Royal Parks was clearing leaves on West Island when he stumbled upon a skeleton that pathologists estimated had been there for three years, The Telegraph reported this week. The remains is said to have belonged to an American man who was obsessed with Queen Elizabeth.

Robert James Moore’s remains were found March 15 this year by the said gardener — a skeleton along with bottles of vodka and a decaying pillow. The discovery of his body was only revealed this week. It was later determined that he was in his late sixties when he died. According to investigators, he must have lived on the island with an “excellent, unimpeded view of the palace” on and off for years.

How do you miss something like that?

199 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:09:09pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

I think they want to use it as a proxy group to fuck with the Iranian regime.

Swell idea.

Which has always worked so well for us. /eyeroll

200 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:09:18pm

International Socialist Organization at Occupy Boston

Youtube Video
201 laZardo  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:09:38pm

re: #191 Varek Raith

Our foreign policy in a nutshell.
“This won’t come back to bite us in the ass. Well, it probably won’t. It’s not like we’ve never done this before! This time will be different. Maybe.”

I wholly expect Libya to end up like this too.

202 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:10:19pm

re: #191 Varek Raith

Our foreign policy in a nutshell.
“This won’t come back to bite us in the ass. Well, it probably won’t. It’s not like we’ve never done this before! This time will be different. Maybe.”

Yep, it’s like screw long term thinking, let’s focus on the short.

203 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:11:38pm

re: #199 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Swell idea.

Which has always worked so well for us. /eyeroll

I mean, what are the odds that after a few years, they’ll get upset and use some of the money and training they got from us to do something crazy? I don’t even know what, maybe hijack a few planes, maybe crash them into some public buildings or something? That never happens.

204 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:11:38pm

re: #189 Killgore Trout

I’ve always been opposed to al Qaeda and its supporters. If that happens to include radical American leftists then I’m just as enthusiastic.

Uh-huh.

And which radical American leftists support al Qaeda, Mr. “Let’s use marxist terrorists as proxies against the Iranian regime”

205 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:12:27pm

re: #202 HappyWarrior

Yep, it’s like screw long term thinking, let’s focus on the short.

Well.

The Lord is coming back soon, anyway. So what does it really matter?

206 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:13:07pm

re: #204 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Uh-huh.

And which radical American leftists support al Qaeda, Mr. “Let’s use marxist terrorists as proxies against the Iranian regime”

Did you read the article and watch the video?

207 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:16:33pm

Call me crazy, but I’m willing to give the 99% group some time before labeling them all radical leftists. Lets see if they latch on en masse to the various “Left Wing” protest groups like the Tea Party latched onto JBS, Global Warming denial, and others before dismissing them out of hand because the same assholes who show up at every protest showed up for theirs.

208 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:17:23pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Call me crazy, but I’m willing to give the 99% group some time before labeling them all radical leftists. Lets see if they latch on en masse to the various “Left Wing” protest groups like the Tea Party latched onto JBS, Global Warming denial, and others before dismissing them out of hand because the same assholes who show up at every protest showed up for theirs.

Commie.

209 erik_t  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:17:50pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Call me crazy, but I’m willing to give the 99% group some time before labeling them all radical leftists. Lets see if they latch on en masse to the various “Left Wing” protest groups like the Tea Party latched onto JBS, Global Warming denial, and others before dismissing them out of hand because the same assholes who show up at every protest showed up for theirs.

I remain somewhat unconvinced that the 99%ers have any capacity to latch or not latch. Mr. Soros has been slacking the hell off on delivering my marching orders.

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:18:36pm

re: #209 erik_t

I remain somewhat unconvinced that the 99%ers have any capacity to latch or not latch. Mr. Soros has been slacking the hell off on delivering my marching orders.

Probably too busy poisoning kittens or something.

211 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:18:46pm

re: #206 Killgore Trout

Did you read the article and watch the video?

The ones you posted on the alleged terrorist?

The first one provided no details on the supporters.

Got another one?

212 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:19:02pm

HuffPo: Slavoj Zizek Joins Occupy Wall Street

Occupy Wall Street got some Slovenian philosopher star power on Sunday, as Marxist academic Slavoj Zizek joined the movement.

“We are not destroying anything,” he said. “We are only witnessing how the system is destroying itself.”

Using the “Human Microphone” system, where protestors repeat back the words of the speaker so that others can hear, Zizek spoke for over an hour to the enthusiastic crowd, who whooped and cheered as he went on.

While in China, entertainment programming that depicts alternate reality and time travel has been banned, in the U.S., we have a different problem, according to Zizek.

“Here we don’t think of prohibition, because the ruling system has even oppressed our capacity to dream, ” he said. “Look at the movies that we see all the time — It’s easy to imagine the end of the world, an asteroid destroying a whole life, but you cannot imagine the end of capitalism. So what are we doing here?”

Zizek also advised the people to see the Tea Party as a sister movement — “They may be stupid, but don’t look at them as the enemy,” he said.

But he warned the protestors against succumbing to the excitement of the immediate events instead of keeping their eye on the prize: True social change.

213 lewispryor  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:19:07pm

I happened to know the answer to that question, only because their president has some unorthodox methods for dealing with dissenters (or anyone else he doesn’t like) in his country:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Glad to know Herman Cain would be on the case as President, possibly not having heard of Uzbekistan before. The guy boils his own people!! Maybe if he started baking them in a wood-fired oven he could get Herman’s attention.

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:19:26pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Call me crazy, but I’m willing to give the 99% group some time before labeling them all radical leftists. Lets see if they latch on en masse to the various “Left Wing” protest groups like the Tea Party latched onto JBS, Global Warming denial, and others before dismissing them out of hand because the same assholes who show up at every protest showed up for theirs.

You’re a Marxist terrorist-supporting Al-Qaeda-and-copkiller-loving antisemite. You should be maced in Guantanamo.

215 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:19:40pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

It’s a mean sounding language. That said, the Austrians and Germans I met in Austria and Germany were very nice to me. And one even helped me out when I was lost in Vienna. Scary, scary times.

It is also the tone in which such greetings and salutations are delivered, it often takes us Americans back, because our tome is a lot softer-sounding. Has very little to do with the actual sentiments behind it, which are all but identical.

A fellow explained to me that Greek and Middle Eastern shopkeepers seem rude, because they come out holding their hands apart and shaking their head, which to us comes across as “what am I supposed to do about it, Buster?” but is in acutality just there way of signalling “What can I do for you, sir/madam?”

216 Jack Burton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:21:02pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Call me crazy, but I’m willing to give the 99% group some time before labeling them all radical leftists. Lets see if they latch on en masse to the various “Left Wing” protest groups like the Tea Party latched onto JBS, Global Warming denial, and others before dismissing them out of hand because the same assholes who show up at every protest showed up for theirs.

You goddamned communist heathen!

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:22:20pm

re: #121 recusancy

Here’s why David Frum says he remains a Republican:

* Flag waving
* Our policies suck now but they’ll totally be better later
* Killing brown people
* Jimmy Carter!
* The white man can’t catch a break
* Conservatives are actually environmentalists
* Unions!
* I’m made about last century
* I like rich people
* The ideology of less government is better than the reality of governing

Frum is still a dolt after all these years.

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:23:45pm

re: #215 ralphieboy

It is also the tone in which such greetings and salutations are delivered, it often takes us Americans back, because our tome is a lot softer-sounding. Has very little to do with the actual sentiments behind it, which are all but identical.

A fellow explained to me that Greek and Middle Eastern shopkeepers seem rude, because they come out holding their hands apart and shaking their head, which to us comes across as “what am I supposed to do about it, Buster?” but is in acutality just there way of signalling “What can I do for you, sir/madam?”

How loud you are supposed to be, and how you do things like eye contact and body language, are incredibly central to all cultures. But most of us have no idea how we do these things, we just do them—and differences in these areas are some of the most misunderstood.

Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez, in her novels, does some hilarious things with cultural differences between people from the Caribbean and Mexicans. In one of her books, a Puerto Rican woman is complaining that when Texans speak Spanish she can hardly hear them, and in another, a young Chicana PR representative is watching a Cuban community organizer scream into a microphone and thinking, “Jesus, these people need tranquilizers or something.”

219 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:24:08pm

re: #211 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The ones you posted on the alleged terrorist?

The first one provided no details on the supporters.

Got another one?

Free Tarek Mehanna Official Website

Boston Sass Attack and the Tarek Mehanna Support Committee team up for an afternoon of (legal) spectacle to spread awareness about Tarek Mehanna’s unjust prosecution! We’ll be performing a song about Tarek to the tune of a popular Destiny’s Child song (guess which one!) and passing out sports bottles and literature about Tarek! Come out and have fun while educating the public about this important political case! The song and dance are easy to learn; we’ll teach you that same day!

*** FREE TAREK CUSTOM WATER BOTTLES WILL BE GIVEN OUT FOR FREE ***

**If you want to come but don’t want to dance/sing, we can use media people and people to hand out literature too!

220 recusancy  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:24:09pm

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

Frum is still a dolt after all these years.

I like the fact that he laid out why he is where he is though.

221 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:24:52pm

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

Well, that there is a bonafide radical leftist. Self-described, even.

222 iossarian  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:24:52pm

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

Frum is still a dolt after all these years.

Jimmy Carter!

Seriously, though, he lost me right here:

The Republicans are the party of American nationalism

Liberals hate America eleventy.

223 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:25:24pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

It’s a mean sounding language. That said, the Austrians and Germans I met in Austria and Germany were very nice to me. And one even helped me out when I was lost in Vienna. Scary, scary times.

I don’t think it’s mean-sounding at all, at least what I know of it.

224 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:25:35pm

re: #222 iossarian

Yep. Besides, illiberal nationalism is a root of many evils.

225 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:26:44pm

re: #224 Sergey Romanov

Nationalism is just another quality where ‘too much’ is really very bad indeed.

226 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:26:59pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Call me crazy, but I’m willing to give the 99% group some time before labeling them all radical leftists. Lets see if they latch on en masse to the various “Left Wing” protest groups like the Tea Party latched onto JBS, Global Warming denial, and others before dismissing them out of hand because the same assholes who show up at every protest showed up for theirs.

Do you think this will be accomplsihed by ignoring the radical organizers? the violent elements attacking police? Making excuses and blaming wingnut infiltrators? Ignore the Al Qaeda supporters and anti-semites?
How did ignoring the radical work out for the Tea Party?

227 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:27:00pm

re: #223 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don’t think it’s mean-sounding at all, at least what I know of it.

Tool proved that German sounds like the Devil’s own tongue.

Youtube Video
228 iossarian  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:28:05pm

re: #224 Sergey Romanov

Yep. Besides, illiberal nationalism is a root of many evils.

Thing is, it’s just verbal diarrhea, and the right wing laps it up despite it being devoid of value.

“The Republicans are the party of American nationalism.” What does that even mean? That the Democrats don’t think that America is a country? That they want CHINA TO TAKE OVER?

It just makes no sense.

Drive-by done - got to go again…

229 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:28:22pm

re: #219 Killgore Trout

Ridiculous street theatre.

230 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:30:14pm

re: #228 iossarian

The mainstream Dems are quite thoroughly “nationalist”, from what I’ve seen. I’m not taking Dailykos etc., I’m talking the party leadership. It’s mostly a liberal kind of nationalism, moderated one. The Republican kind is just something ugly.

231 erik_t  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:30:15pm

re: #222 iossarian

Seriously, though, he lost me right here: ‘The Republicans are the party of American nationalism’

Liberals hate America eleventy.

I love this country, but I would bristle at being called a (liberal) ‘American nationalist’.

So I think he’s probably right.

232 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:30:37pm

More on the Zuccotti Park Protests.

First, the location was chosen because it was a privately-owned public space and not covered under the usual NYC parks department rules (that generally require closure after twilight - though often and frequently ignored). Second, decisions are made at a General Assembly where a single voice vote can reject any measure proffered.

And there’s a spinoff group that has pushed for more direct confrontations/violence.

Some 1960s exotica is here. At the park’s south end, across from the reconstruction site, drums beat almost nonstop. A young woman in a purple sari dances wildly. Others spin in Hula-Hoop demonstrations. They draw a crowd, including ogling construction workers.

They stop and stare, but, while they don’t taunt protesters the way hard-hats did in the 1960s; they also don’t join. Some in Occupy Wall Street hoped a sizable number of the 3,000 construction workers at the trade center would join Wednesday’s protests. They didn’t.

“They’re afraid for their jobs and they don’t trust these kids yet,” says Walter Hillegass, 34, of Jackson Heights. He is an unemployed union plumber and a volunteer first-responder who spent a week uncovering bodies at Ground Zero after 9/11.

Hillegass mans the labor table at Zuccotti Park, hoping to recruit more union members. Like others in working groups, he is self-appointed. He also is critical of both the young who provoke police, and the construction workers who won’t add their power to the movement.

“I’m not one of these kids,” he says, gesturing his head toward someone playing a Tibetan lute while others do yoga stretches. “I like cops.”

He wants Occupy Wall Street to focus less on the kinds of marches and demonstrations that, while drawing national publicity, also could bring unwanted reactions — suppression by police or abandonment by those who, while hurting, are repulsed by violence. He says he believes a small leadership group is directing its actions.

“They’ve got to grow up,” says Hillegass.

But many in Occupy Wall Street believe they have grown beyond the politics and ideas of the past. They oppose competition and embrace “open source” technology and sharing of wealth. They oppose party politics and believe in consensus over voting and majority rule. Their roots are in anarchism as well in the Civil Rights and anti-war movements.

“It’s a new paradigm,” says Gabriel Ruiz, a religion major from Hunter College, who genuinely believes Occupy Wall Street could start a revolution.

But old paradigms still mean something, not simply to the protest’s detractors, traditional politicians, and the police command, but also to families like the Papaleos, middle-class people like Schmutz, construction workers like Hillegass. The revolution won’t come without them.

Time is not on Occupy Wall Street’s side. Cold weather is coming. The patience of the police, especially command officers, is waning. It has no goals beyond wanting the movement to spread so widely that the evils it — correctly — identifies are swept away.

There’s no endgame though.

It’s not surprising that the construction trade unions aren’t joining in - they need businesses - including Goldman Sachs and other banks that have been lambasted at OWS - to provide loans/credits so that they can move forward on construction projects that mean jobs for them. So, while the construction trade workers are unionized, their outlook isn’t completely in sync with the protesters who are opposed to greed, Wall Street, and everything else that comes to mind.

233 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:31:08pm

re: #226 Killgore Trout

Do you think this will be accomplsihed by ignoring the radical organizers? the violent elements attacking police? Making excuses and blaming wingnut infiltrators? Ignore the Al Qaeda supporters and anti-semites?
How did ignoring the radical work out fore the Tea Party?

Sorry, I didn’t realize a new political movement was supposed to instantly sort out its potential backers and recognize all the violent elements before they hit streets. Its probably easier when you have a few millionaires set things up ahead of time.

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:31:22pm

re: #231 erik_t

They are the Party of American Exceptionalism, which is Nationalism cranked up on bad speed…

235 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:31:58pm

re: #223 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don’t think it’s mean-sounding at all, at least what I know of it.

I was thinking more stern than mean. She was, after all, insisting that I have a good day, not a bad one.

236 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:32:45pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

International Socialist Organization at Occupy Boston

[Video]

i’m shocked - shocked! - to see that a hard core socialist organization showed up at a protest against greed in wall st and the outsized influence of big money on politics

237 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:34:47pm

re: #226 Killgore Trout

Do you think this will be accomplsihed by ignoring the radical organizers? the violent elements attacking police? Making excuses and blaming wingnut infiltrators? Ignore the Al Qaeda supporters and anti-semites?
How did ignoring the radical work out fore the Tea Party?

Other than a bunch of unhinged candidates in 2010 like Sharron Angle, Christine O’Donnell, Carl Paladino, Rich Iott, Joe Miller, some getting into office, a tea party contingent of Congress, a nooz channel that blasts out everything they do 24/7, big-bucks backing from deep pockets like the Koch’s and Sal Russo,

and
Tea Party Express
Tea Party Nation
Tea Party Patriots
Resistnet
Oathkeeper/militia-lite
National Tea Party Federation

they really didn’t do so well.

///

When the equivalent ever happens with OWS, we can both weep together over it.

238 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:34:54pm

re: #236 engineer dog

i’m shocked - shocked! - to see that a hard core socialist organization showed up at a protest against greed in wall st and the outsized influence of big money on politics

Their presence instantly means everyone there must be a card carrying member of the godless international socialist cabal.

239 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:36:48pm

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Their presence instantly means everyone there must be a card carrying member of the godless international socialist cabal.

Youtube Video
240 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:37:10pm

Socialist ≠ Communist.
9_9

241 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:38:38pm

re: #240 Varek Raith

Socialist ≠ Communist.
9_9

Real Communists in Russia hated and repressed socialists.

242 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:39:58pm

re: #241 Sergey Romanov

Real Communists in Russia hated and repressed socialists.

Well!

Nazis were socialists! IT EVEN SAYS SO RIGHT IN THEIR NAME!!!!!1@

243 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:42:37pm

Occupy Wall Street Crowd Greets Fox Host With Chants Of ‘Fox News Lies’

Why do they hate America?

244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:42:50pm

re: #221 Obdicut

Well, that there is a bonafide radical leftist. Self-described, even.

Ever read him?

Classic ivory tower bentley marxist.

245 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:43:21pm

Has Anonymous been able to hack Wall Street today?

246 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:43:40pm

re: #242 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And Zhirinovsky is a Liberal Democrat. Must be both liberal and democratic then, I guess.

247 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:44:05pm

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

HuffPo: Slavoj Zizek Joins Occupy Wall Street

Zizek is a clown.

248 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:44:28pm

re: #245 NJDhockeyfan

Has Anonymous been able to hack Wall Street today?

My guess would be no.

249 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:44:32pm

re: #240 Varek Raith

Socialist ≠ Communist.
9_9

now young man, a lot of money and time has been spent obliterating the meanings of these words, yet here you go trying to bring back their definitions

don’t let me catch you with a dictionary again or i don’t know what i’ll do!!!

250 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:46:17pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My experience there has made me pessimistic. I didn’t meet a single person there who thought that it was really headed somewhere, other than the people who were actual revolutionaries.

Everyone I met who was smart and nifty, while they expressed support for the protests, expressed the idea that they need to focus on an issue where actual progress can get made. But since so many people there feel that political engagement as a whole is a broken, useless entireprise, I don’t see the movement coalescing around any politically achievable issues.

I”m not sure where they can go from here. I mean, ironically, Obama has been cracking down on banking regulations recently, and actual achievable results have occurred. But I bet when I go down there again— if I muster the energy, since now that they have bona-fide Marxist celebrity professors speaking, I’m doubting the reachability of the crowd by l’il ol’ me— I don’t expect to find a lot of support for Obama. I don’t expect to find a lot of support for the Democrats.

251 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:46:28pm

re: #246 Sergey Romanov

And Zhirinovsky is a Liberal Democrat. Must be both liberal and democratic then, I guess.

And North Korea is Democratic. Of course those who call the Nazis leftists totally ignore that the Nazis main political targets were on the left.

252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:46:50pm

re: #246 Sergey Romanov

And Zhirinovsky is a Liberal Democrat. Must be both liberal and democratic then, I guess.

Democrats is the plantation. Republicans is Lincoln.

253 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:47:21pm

re: #213 lewispryor

I happened to know the answer to that question, only because their president has some unorthodox methods for dealing with dissenters (or anyone else he doesn’t like) in his country:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Glad to know Herman Cain would be on the case as President, possibly not having heard of Uzbekistan before. The guy boils his own people!! Maybe if he started baking them in a wood-fired oven he could get Herman’s attention.

Urgh.

Though let me say that I don’t care if someone boils “his own people” or somebody else’s people: He’s boiling people, ffs!

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:48:34pm

re: #252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Democrats is the plantation. Republicans is Lincoln.

But Lincoln is a dictator!!

255 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:50:19pm

re: #224 Sergey Romanov

Yep. Besides, illiberal nationalism is a root of many evils.

1848 is the answer to 1984?

256 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:50:59pm

Heh. Two ways I can think of that the Tea Party and the OWS people are similar: I can’t imagine either group giving a statement of support for Obama.

257 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:51:40pm

re: #250 Obdicut

My experience there has made me pessimistic. I didn’t meet a single person there who thought that it was really headed somewhere, other than the people who were actual revolutionaries.

Everyone I met who was smart and nifty, while they expressed support for the protests, expressed the idea that they need to focus on an issue where actual progress can get made. But since so many people there feel that political engagement as a whole is a broken, useless entireprise, I don’t see the movement coalescing around any politically achievable issues.

I”m not sure where they can go from here. I mean, ironically, Obama has been cracking down on banking regulations recently, and actual achievable results have occurred. But I bet when I go down there again— if I muster the energy, since now that they have bona-fide Marxist celebrity professors speaking, I’m doubting the reachability of the crowd by l’il ol’ me— I don’t expect to find a lot of support for Obama. I don’t expect to find a lot of support for the Democrats.

I don’t know what they can accomplish either, but I’m willing to let them fail on their own, rather than simply labeling them all liberal commies from the start as an excuse not to listen to what they have to say.

258 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:52:25pm

re: #226 Killgore Trout

Do you think this will be accomplsihed by ignoring the radical organizers? the violent elements attacking police? Making excuses and blaming wingnut infiltrators? Ignore the Al Qaeda supporters and anti-semites?
How did ignoring the radical work out for the Tea Party?

the radical elements in the tea party were arranged by the tea party puppeteers to draw in the sociopaths, and then be duly tsk-tsk’ed by fox news and other well paid liars

259 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:54:10pm

re: #257 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, I’m definitely attempting engagement.

260 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:54:57pm

Bloomberg: Occupy Wall Street Protesters Can Stay Indefinitely

“The bottom line is – people want to express themselves. And as long as they obey the laws, we’ll allow them to,” Bloomberg said. “If they break the laws, then, we’re going to do what we’re supposed to do: enforce the laws.”

261 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:55:48pm

re: #237 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Of course the Tea Party has had a couple years to get where it is. OWS (So far)has Current TV with Keith Olberman all over it, and a growing number of mainstream democratic party political supporters. Growing Union support. Their list of allies grows apace too.

262 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:56:41pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bloomberg: Occupy Wall Street Protesters Can Stay Indefinitely

I posted a story yesterday where he was bitching about the protesters because they were costing the city money.

263 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:57:51pm

re: #256 Obdicut

I noticed a few signs that were quite down on Obama - essentially calling him part of, and for, the system.

Oh, and Kanye West is now down at Zuccotti Park.

264 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:58:02pm

re: #256 Obdicut

Heh. Two ways I can think of that the Tea Party and the OWS people are similar: I can’t imagine either group giving a statement of support for Obama.

The elements from the old Anybody But Bush crowd hate Obama.

I think they, like the teabaggers, also believed Obama was a “socialist”. lol

265 lewispryor  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:58:31pm

re: #253 000G

I was just referencing what they used to say about Saddam Hussein before the Iraq invasion (“he gassed his own people”), and I had the exact same reaction then as you did now: the words “his own” are relevant how?

266 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:58:37pm

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

Of course the Tea Party has had a couple years to get where it is. OWS (So far)has Current TV with Keith Olberman all over it, and a growing number of mainstream democratic party political supporters. Growing Union support. Their list of allies grows apace too.

It also has the support of the Pagan Presidential candidate Aldous Tyler.

I never heard of this guy.

267 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:58:56pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bloomberg is dealing with a huge heap of crap from the decision on the firefighters union right now, so I think he’s a little distracted.

[Link: www.courthousenews.com…]

I like this bit:

“In deposition testimony, Mayor Bloomberg denied even knowing what it means to be ‘responsible’:
LEVY: Do you consider yourself responsible for seeing that EEO laws and policies are followed?
BLOOMBERG: You just asked that question. I don’t know what the word ‘responsibility’ is and I can’t answer your question.
LEVY: Well do you consider yourself responsible in any sense?
BLOOMBERG: I don’t know what the word ‘responsible’ is, counsel.

268 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:59:38pm

re: #256 Obdicut

Heh. Two ways I can think of that the Tea Party and the OWS people are similar: I can’t imagine either group giving a statement of support for Obama.

but but but Moveon.org and George Soros are behind OWS!

269 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 12:59:39pm

re: #266 NJDhockeyfan

It also has the support of the Pagan Presidential candidate Aldous Tyler.

I never heard of this guy.

Heh. and we thought the Mormon would face religious bigotry. Pagan? He’ll rune the election!

270 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:00:15pm

Judge: Backers Of The State Senate President Ran Sham Candidate In AZ Recall

A judge in Maricopa County, AZ, found that there is evidence that state Senate candidate Olivia Cortes is a sham candidate in the election to recall Senate president Russell Pearce.

Cortes, who dropped out of the race but will still appear on the ballot, was accused of being recruited by Pearce supporters who wanted to split the vote for Pearce’s opponent, Jerry Lewis, particularly in the Hispanic community.

Cortes had kept a low profile throughout the campaign — she dodged reporter questions, had no campaign events and only a few signs, and launched her website pretty late in the game. And then there were accounts by local reporters that paid signature gatherers for Cortes’ candidacy admitted that she was supposed to split the anti-Pearce vote. “She’s running on her own,” one petitioner reportedly said. “But the whole purpose is to split the vote. So that everyone who [is] against [Pearce] will vote for two people instead of one, and that way [Pearce] will get the most votes.”

No word yet on whether Sheriff Arpaio will be able to spare the manpower from investigating the President’s birth certificate to look into this issue.

271 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:00:29pm

re: #263 lawhawk

I noticed a few signs that were quite down on Obama - essentially calling him part of, and for, the system.

Oh, and Kanye West is now down at Zuccotti Park.

Oh please please please let them not get consensus for him to speak and for him to have to deal with that. That would almost be worth all these protests if they just denied Kanye the microphone. How fitting would that be?

272 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:01:06pm

re: #256 Obdicut

Heh. Two ways I can think of that the Tea Party and the OWS people are similar: I can’t imagine either group giving a statement of support for Obama.

But Obama is behind OWS, *Limbaugh*

273 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:01:34pm

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

Of course the Tea Party has had a couple years to get where it is. OWS (So far)has Current TV with Keith Olberman all over it, and a growing number of mainstream democratic party political supporters. Growing Union support. Their list of allies grows apace too.

My point is somewhat similar. If in a year the OWS has the same level of political clout, then that will be something. I chose a year, because they started in 2009 and by 2010 had all those whackjobs on the GOP ticket. Nobody in the GOP, and no GOP voter, can ignore them.

I don’t see that happening with OWS for many reasons, which is why I have rejected the OWS/tea party comparisons to begin with.

274 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:01:39pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bloomberg: Occupy Wall Street Protesters Can Stay Indefinitely

Strangely concillatory, given this recently stated sentiment. What gives?

275 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:01:52pm

re: #251 HappyWarrior

And North Korea is Democratic. Of course those who call the Nazis leftists totally ignore that the Nazis main political targets were on the left.

We forget that “left” and “right” were just arbitrary designations based on the seating order of the French Parliament to keep the delegates from engatging in fisticuffs.

The terms are applied after the fact, as is most of what has to do with “Socialist” or “Democrat”. Save that in America, “Socialist” is such a dirty word that no politician who claims it has a chance of getting elected.

276 laZardo  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:02:07pm

re: #263 lawhawk

I noticed a few signs that were quite down on Obama - essentially calling him part of, and for, the system.

Oh, and Kanye West is now down at Zuccotti Park.

“Bush Obama doesn’t care about black people.”

/obligatory

277 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:02:39pm

re: #275 ralphieboy

Except for Bernie Sanders.

278 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:03:29pm

re: #263 lawhawk

Oh, and Kanye West is now down at Zuccotti Park.

I sense a nonsensical comparison being made in the near future.

279 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:03:40pm

re: #274 000G

Strangely concillatory, given this recently stated sentiment. What gives?

he had to make the first statement so that he could then make the second statement?

280 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:04:11pm

re: #276 laZardo

“Bush Obama doesn’t care about black people.”

/obligatory

Yo, I’m going to let you finish, but Beyonce had the greatest video of all time.

281 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:04:24pm

re: #275 ralphieboy

Except Bernie Saunders in VT (self-professed Socialist who caucuses with the Democrats).

282 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:06:22pm

re: #279 engineer dog

he had to make the first statement so that he could then make the second statement?

So, he went from “You costing us money and jobs” to “Meh, stay as long as you want”?

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:06:30pm

re: #265 lewispryor

I was just referencing what they used to say about Saddam Hussein before the Iraq invasion (“he gassed his own people”), and I had the exact same reaction then as you did now: the words “his own” are relevant how?

It does represent an additional pushing of the boundaries—doing unto others has always been slightly more OK than doing to your own.

Not that this is particularly relevent if it’s you being boiled.

284 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:06:57pm

Damn… missed Jimmy MacMillon and Susan Sarandon at the protests too.

Here’s your Heh moment:

the protesters are starting to notice folks taking advantage of the demonstration by grabbing some of the free food and clothes that have been made available in Zuccotti Park.

“The tourists take all the food, and the hipsters take all the clothes,” said one demonstrator.

And thus far, Anonymous hasn’t been able to do anything to take down the NYSE (or their website).

285 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:07:30pm

re: #280 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yo,
[yo]

I’m going to let you finish,
[I’m going to let you finish]

but
[but]

Beyonce had the greatest video of all time.
[Beyonce had the greatest video of all time]

/it had to happen

286 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:09:17pm

re: #253 000G

Urgh.

Though let me say that I don’t care if someone boils “his own people” or somebody else’s people: He’s boiling people, ffs!

I don’t understand the accusation. We don’t really know the details, but suppose he was indeed boiled in the prison. What is the evidence that Karimov had anything to do with that, beyond general responsibility (such as that Bush had for Abu Ghraib, for example)? On what is the “he boils people” accusation based?

287 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:09:38pm

re: #285 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

/it had to happen

Auto tune it, give it a beat and I smell jackpot.

288 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:10:02pm

re: #282 Cannadian Club Akbar

He’s possibly looking at the weather reports and figures that the rains and colder weather will do what police action could do - but a whole lot more benignly (and without fanfare).

289 jvic  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:10:33pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

George Bush is one of those people I like better now that he is out of office, and the decisions he made that I didn’t like can be regarded as faits accomplis.

1. SFZ, that’s how I viewed Carter back when his post-Presidential activities were apolitical. It’s not how I view Bush because his incompetence has dealt a long-term setback to the country and to my ideal of a good and just society.

2. Bush, however, should be a fascinating figure for future historians. He seemed reasonably qualified to become President (not that anyone can prequalify for that task…though people can disqualify). With his family connections, he knew, or should have known, how power in this country works. He had experience (though not distinction) in business, government and the military. The reason why he was not at least minimally competent—and accepted as such even by sensible people who disagreed with him—eludes me.

290 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:10:54pm

re: #268 000G

but but but Moveon.org and George Soros are behind OWS!

I heard OWS is Obama’s marxist civilian army setting up the FEMA camps for the patriotics.

291 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:11:41pm

re: #284 lawhawk

Anonymous hasn’t been able to do anything to take down the NYSE (or their website).

Barret Brown’s ego hardest hit.

292 laZardo  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:12:56pm

re: #284 lawhawk

And thus far, Anonymous hasn’t been able to do anything to take down the NYSE (or their website).

If you’re looking for an honest opinion from them about the LulzSec types…

[warning: no nsfw graphics but contains meme-slurring]

293 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:14:22pm

Oh geezus. This ought to be fun.
Your text to link…

My phone is acting stupid. Hope this works…

294 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:14:33pm

re: #291 NJDhockeyfan

Barret Brown’s ego hardest hit.

Since Barrett Brown is not affiliated with Anonymous, how so?

295 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:14:58pm

On the German government trojan: So far, the criminal investigation offices (Landeskriminalämter) of 4 German states (out of 16 in total) have admitted to have used the software: Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg, Brandenburg, and Lower Saxony.

Story keeps getting bigger.

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:16:30pm

re: #277 Obdicut

Except for Bernie Sanders.

I put that and the thing before it together. “Obama doesn’t care about black people, except for Bernie Sanders.”

I blinked a bit.

297 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:16:48pm

re: #282 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, he went from “You costing us money and jobs” to “Meh, stay as long as you want”?

the idea is that he had to show his republican constituents that he hadn’t turned into a communist hippie before he could go ahead and not crack down on OWS, which is a huge disruption in manhattan

he has a lot of people calling him up and demanding that he bring douglas mcarthur back from the dead to immediately arrest all OWS protestors and chain them in the dungeon

298 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:17:29pm

re: #286 Sergey Romanov

I don’t understand the accusation. We don’t really know the details, but suppose he was indeed boiled in the prison. What is the evidence that Karimov had anything to do with that, beyond general responsibility (such as that Bush had for Abu Ghraib, for example)? On what is the “he boils people” accusation is based?

I think in societies like Uzbekistan, you can generally make the head of government responsible for a lot more than in a democratic society, going to the Bush analogy.

That would be the gist of my argument anyway.

299 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:18:23pm

re: #294 Sergey Romanov

Since Barrett Brown is not affiliated with Anonymous, how so?

He’s still a spokesmouth for them and just wrote a book or is writing a book all about Anonymous which makes him still a shitbag.

300 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:18:59pm

re: #292 laZardo

If you’re looking for an honest opinion from them about the LulzSec types…

[warning: no nsfw graphics but contains meme-slurring]

Lol ED is hilarious.

301 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:19:18pm

re: #299 NJDhockeyfan

He’s still a spokesmouth for them and just wrote a book or is writing a book all about Anonymous which makes him still a shitbag.

Anonymous is now attacking him over that book, though.

302 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:20:14pm

re: #298 000G

Army is not a democratic institution, so the comparison is apt.

In any case, whatever one might think about responsibility, “Karimov boils people” is an obvious agitprop, sorry.

303 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:20:29pm

re: #301 Obdicut

Anonymous is now attacking him over that book, though.

They should pirated copies of it and post it on the internet.

304 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:20:53pm

re: #299 NJDhockeyfan

He’s still a spokesmouth for them

LOL, no he’s not.

305 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:23:09pm

re: #302 Sergey Romanov

Army is not a democratic institution, so the comparison is apt.

Not exactly, because then there is the analogy (or lack thereof) between prison personel and army personel and the analogy (or lack thereof) between boiling and other forms of torture, the difference in means of redress and correction, etc. It just doesn’t work. So no, not apt.

In any case, whatever one might think about responsibility, “Karimov boils people” is an obvious agitprop, sorry.

I don’t think so, sorry.

306 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:24:12pm

Nope.
I need my computer back!!!

“Joe the Plumber” takes first step towards Ohio congressional runSabrina Eaton, The Plain Dealer 10/10/2011 2:49 PM

That district, which stretches from Toledo to the west side of Cleveland, already has two incumbent Democrats seeking the seat: Cleveland’s Dennis Kucinich and Toledo’s Marcy Kaptur.

“I would say that in a Republican Party that takes Herman Cain and Michele Bachmann seriously, there is certainly room for Joe the Plumber,” said Kaptur
spokesman Steve Fought, who noted that Wurzelbacher’s home in Holland Ohio would not be located in the district he’s seeking. Holland has been drawn into the district now served by GOP Rep. Bob Latta of Bowling Green.

307 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 1:26:53pm

re: #305 000G

re: #305 000G

Not exactly, because then there is the analogy (or lack thereof) between prison personel and army personel and the analogy (or lack thereof) between boiling and other forms of torture, the difference in means of redress and correction, etc. It just doesn’t work. So no, not apt.

No, all of that is rather irrelevant to the question of responsibility for deeds of underlings who might or might not have gone rogue.

I don’t think so, sorry.

That’s hardly an argument. Simply put, there is no evidence whatsoever that Karimov boils people. Ergo, saying so is repeating agitprop.

308 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:06:40pm

Cain Surges, Nearly Ties Romney for Lead in GOP Preferences

309 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:27:02pm

re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, all you people making fun of Mr. Cain, do YOU know who the president of Ubekibekibekistanstan is?

I do know that their capitol is on Bakkalakkadakka Street.

310 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:27:52pm

re: #309 garhighway

I do know that their capitol is on Bakkalakkadakka Street.

No, you are thinking of Durkadurkistan…

311 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:30:43pm

re: #310 ralphieboy

No, you are thinking of Durkadurkistan…

My bad.

312 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:31:40pm

re: #308 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain Surges, Nearly Ties Romney for Lead in GOP Preferences

Proposed subtitle of article:

GOP tries to prove just how far it will go to avoid nominating Romney.

313 Kragar  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:38:07pm

re: #312 garhighway

Proposed subtitle of article:

GOP tries to prove just how far it will go to avoid nominating Romney.

Romney is not even a real Christian, and Cain is authentically black, so whats the problem?

///

314 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:40:39pm

re: #313 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney is not even a real Christian, and Cain is authentically black, so whats the problem?

///

I am sure that in some political consultant’s office, some bright young man is saying something like:

“We nominate Cain, he takes 1/3 of Obama’s black voters and we win in a walk. Yeah, he’s batshit crazy, but we can manage that.”

315 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:43:02pm

re: #313 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney is not even a real Christian, and Cain is authentically black, so whats the problem?

///

he’s not his brother’s keeper

316 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:45:27pm

re: #138 goddamnedfrank

How about assholes who talk about black people in general, who say they’ve been brainwashed?

Or that they should quit whining?

317 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 2:58:19pm

re: #307 Sergey Romanov

re: #305 000G

No, all of that is rather irrelevant to the question of responsibility for deeds of underlings who might or might not have gone rogue.

That’s hardly an argument. Simply put, there is no evidence whatsoever that Karimov boils people. Ergo, saying so is repeating agitprop.

Uzbekistan according to Amnesty International:

Despite assertions by the authorities that the practice of torture had significantly decreased, reports of torture or other ill-treatment of detainees and prisoners continued unabated. In most cases, the authorities failed to conduct prompt, thorough and impartial investigations into these allegations.

Several thousand people convicted of involvement with Islamist parties or Islamic movements banned in Uzbekistan, as well as government critics and political opponents, continued to serve long prison terms under conditions that amounted to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.

Uzbekistan again refused to allow the UN Special Rapporteur on torture to visit the country despite renewed requests.

Quoted at Amnesty International, the European Court of Human Rights on Uzbekistan:

The European Court of Human Rights ruled on 10 June in the case Garayev v. Azerbaijan that the extradition of Shaig Garayev from Azerbaijan to Uzbekistan would violate the prohibition of torture under the European Convention on Human Rights. The court stated that “any criminal suspect held in custody [in Uzbekistan] faces a serious risk of being subjected to torture or inhuman or degrading treatment”.

The Dictator’s Handbook (Mesquita and Sinclair) reports that nations with economies rich in raw materials, but not that much in the way of human capital, allow a regime that cares little for its people to grind them to dust and still have enough money to richly reward key supporters. That therefore, such nations are likely to be ruled by tyrants.

Wikipedia reports this about Uzbekistan’s economy:

Uzbekistan has a very low GNI per capita (US$610 in current dollars in 2006, giving a PPP equivalent of US$2,250).[37] By GNI per capita in PPP equivalents Uzbekistan ranks 169 among 209 countries; among the 12 CIS countries, only Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan had lower GNI per capita in 2006. Economic production is concentrated in commodities: Uzbekistan is now the world’s sixth-largest producer and second-largest exporter of cotton,[38] as well as the seventh largest world producer of gold. It is also a regionally significant producer of natural gas, coal, copper, oil, silver and uranium.[39]

Agriculture employs 28% of Uzbekistan’s labour force and contributes 24% of its GDP (2006 data).[11] While official unemployment is very low, underemployment – especially in rural areas – is estimated to be at least 20%.[40] Still, at cotton-harvest time, all students and teachers are mobilized and enslaved as unpaid labour to help in the fields.[41] The use of child labour in Uzbekistan has led several companies, including Tesco,[42] C&A,[43] Marks & Spencer, Gap, and H&M, to boycott Uzbek cotton.[44]

But, of course, the president bears no responsibility for any of this. Provided he doesn’t literally boil people, he’s OK.

//

318 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 3:20:53pm

re: #316 lostlakehiker

Or that they should quit whining?

Whatever works for you and gets you to answer the question. Is that your stance, that the majority of black people are whiners?

319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 4:04:03pm

re: #316 lostlakehiker

Or that they should quit whining?

What kind of stupid answer is that?

320 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 4:11:19pm

re: #314 garhighway

I am sure that in some political consultant’s office, some bright young man is saying something like:

“We nominate Cain, he takes 1/3 of Obama’s black voters and we win in a walk. Yeah, he’s batshit crazy, but we can manage that.”

Lol the only thing that will do is give Bubba the choice between Barack Obama (D - Black) and Herman Cain (R - Black); R’s still lose.

Won’t ever happen.

321 mustardflower  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 4:25:09pm

Uzbekistan is actually a pretty important country. It’s American only real ally that borders Afghanistan. It is also known for being ruled by one of the world’s most oppressive regimes. Islam Karimov, Uz’s current president, is known for BOILING his political opponents alive !

322 funky chicken  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 4:25:10pm

re: #83 ggt

The Brave New World is a Global World.

And, I don’t see any of the GOP Contenders being cognizant of that. They seem to want to work backwards—restore our “greatness” “make American strong again”. Sounds a lot like some in the ME who want to restore the Caliphate. Or the Roman’s who wanted to “restore the republic”.

AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

By giving corporations $$ to send jobs to those poor, insignificant countries.

323 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 5:21:52pm

re: #193 engineer dog

if the employer for some reason no longer had to pay their 6.5% half share of the tax, do you think they would give it to you - or keep it? please!

also, the added tax burden would of course be a marginal additional 6.5% on the income over $106,500. if you game this out, you can see that a person making $200,000 is now paying an additional $5,500 per year, less than i pay per year in property taxes

“amounts to just the same thing” is just a meaningless phrase that you think somehow justifies you thinking of the employee contribution plus the employer contribution as falling all on the employee. but it doesn’t

You are just mistaken. If the law were to change tomorrow, and require that employees pay the full 12% from their own earnings, and relieve employers of their 6% share, here’s what would happen. At first, the burden would be shifted to employees. But over time, employers, who must compete for employees after all, would find that it made sense to offer higher wages, since their costs had decreased and others were taking advantage of the extra money to pilfer key employees.

When it had all sorted itself out, we’d be right where we are now. This is elementary economics. The formalities of who is said to pay a tax that falls on the combination of worker and employer have nothing to do with the actual, after tax pay received by the employee, or the actual, including tax, cost to the employer to keep the employee on the job.

In other words, it’s ALL THE SAME whether the tax is nominally levied against the employer, or against the employee, or in some nominal mix.

324 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 5:25:29pm

re: #318 goddamnedfrank

Whatever works for you and gets you to answer the question. Is that your stance, that the majority of black people are whiners?

My point was that Obama had complained that blacks were whining. It wasn’t me who said that. And he didn’t say they all did, nor did McCain say that all blacks had been brainwashed.

And I, I didn’t say blacks had been brainwashed, OR that they were whining.

What I said was that McCain had been effective in all his endeavors to date, and that, not counting the presidency, where I do think he’d be out of his league, he was in no way a walking example of the Peter Principle. Let alone to the nth degree, as the original post I quoted and disputed claimed.

325 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 5:27:26pm

re: #323 lostlakehiker

Except wages have been stagnant for a decade.

326 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 6:01:16pm

re: #323 lostlakehiker

You are just mistaken. If the law were to change tomorrow, and require that employees pay the full 12% from their own earnings, and relieve employers of their 6% share, here’s what would happen. At first, the burden would be shifted to employees. But over time, employers, who must compete for employees after all, would find that it made sense to offer higher wages, since their costs had decreased and others were taking advantage of the extra money to pilfer key employees.

When it had all sorted itself out, we’d be right where we are now. This is elementary economics. The formalities of who is said to pay a tax that falls on the combination of worker and employer have nothing to do with the actual, after tax pay received by the employee, or the actual, including tax, cost to the employer to keep the employee on the job.

In other words, it’s ALL THE SAME whether the tax is nominally levied against the employer, or against the employee, or in some nominal mix.

downdinged for making things up and presenting them as inevitable outcomes

327 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 6:37:29pm

re: #324 lostlakehiker

nor did McCain say that all blacks had been brainwashed.

Cain…Only the 95% of us black voters who vote Democratic are brainwashed, Mr. MBF. 9_9

What I said was that McCain

Cain

had been effective in all his endeavors to date, and that, not counting the presidency, where I do think he’d be out of his league, he was in no way a walking example of the Peter Principle. Let alone to the nth degree, as the original post I quoted and disputed claimed.

If Barack Obama were not the incumbent, there’s no way in hell any conservative would give two cruds about Herman Cain, not as a human being, not as a so-called “self-made” CEO, and sure had eff not as a candidate.

There’s also no way the GOP is going to let him be their choice, giving their pitchfork constituents a choice between the black man and the black man.

Won’t.ever.happen.

328 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 6:55:31pm

re: #327 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Cain…Only the 95% of us black voters who vote Democratic are brainwashed, Mr. MBF. 9_9

Cain

If Barack Obama were not the incumbent, there’s no way in hell any conservative would give two cruds about Herman Cain, not as a human being, not as a so-called “self-made” CEO, and sure had eff not as a candidate.

There’s also no way the GOP is going to let him be their choice, giving their pitchfork constituents a choice between the black man and the black man.

Won’t.ever.happen.

You think so? There are simpler reasons why Cain (my bad, slip of the typing fingers) won’t be the GOP nominee. He has no experience in government. He’s not up to speed on foreign affairs. His 9-9-9 tax proposal allows no room for the thicket of exemptions and special provisions that drive lobbying and campaign contributions both parties depend on. It’s rather obviously regressive, so it would get no traction in a general election.

If that is possible, he’s more abrasive than Ross Perot was.

The GOP didn’t nominate Ross Perot back when.

One of these days, when somebody with the right resume and personality comes along, we can see if the GOP will refuse the nomination to a black man because he’s black. Right now, we’re looking at whether the GOP will refuse the nomination to a Mormon because he’s Mormon. Neither of these things is to me a foregone conclusion. If you see it ahead of time, I salute your crystal ball.

329 lostlakehiker  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 6:57:00pm

re: #326 engineer dog

downdinged for making things up and presenting them as inevitable outcomes

Not made up. The statement here is generally known among economists. It’s even called a theorem. I’m not an economist so I can’t give its name. But taxes on a transaction work out the same whoever is nominally taxed.

330 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 7:08:41pm

re: #329 lostlakehiker

Remember how that was demonstrably untrue during the time period where the airlines didn’t have to pay taxes related to tickets, but ticket prices didn’t go down?

I do.

331 garhighway  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 8:05:43pm

re: #323 lostlakehiker

You are just mistaken. If the law were to change tomorrow, and require that employees pay the full 12% from their own earnings, and relieve employers of their 6% share, here’s what would happen. At first, the burden would be shifted to employees. But over time, employers, who must compete for employees after all, would find that it made sense to offer higher wages, since their costs had decreased and others were taking advantage of the extra money to pilfer key employees.

When it had all sorted itself out, we’d be right where we are now. This is elementary economics. The formalities of who is said to pay a tax that falls on the combination of worker and employer have nothing to do with the actual, after tax pay received by the employee, or the actual, including tax, cost to the employer to keep the employee on the job.

In other words, it’s ALL THE SAME whether the tax is nominally levied against the employer, or against the employee, or in some nominal mix.

The tax code doesn’t affect outcomes? Really? That’s absurd. The companies I work for and around would hoover up those bucks in a second. Have you looked at the labor market recently? Do you see workers having any leverage? I don’t.

332 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 8:11:24pm

re: #328 lostlakehiker

You think so?

Yerp.

There are simpler reasons why Cain (my bad, slip of the typing fingers) won’t be the GOP nominee.

Well, there are multiple reasons why he won’t be the nominee, his being Black being among them. For whatever reason, though, you rather hamfistedly brought in his race/color to try and talk about his qualifications.

I thought that was odd, albeit unsurprising, given what I’ve seen of your post history on that topic.

So going back to your OP in the thread, #127, I don’t see the point of speculating on the Peter Principle within a Cain presidency at all, at least not in 2012. See my own OP in this thread for why.

Also, given what you state as his non-quals, I can barely believe this guy is in the top 3 in the polls [fwiw], seeing the gaffes he’s already made, and walked back, and made some more. That, to me, is rewarding incompetence. Only in Conservatopia.

333 engineer cat  Mon, Oct 10, 2011 8:58:15pm

re: #329 lostlakehiker

Not made up. The statement here is generally known among economists. It’s even called a theorem. I’m not an economist so I can’t give its name. But taxes on a transaction work out the same whoever is nominally taxed.

here’s what would happen

oh, is that so?

by all means, please look up your theorem and tell us about it

334 po8crg  Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:52:44am

Considering that Uzbekistan is where the Americans that invaded Afghanistan left from (K2 base), it really should be a bit more important in the thinking of a Presidential candidate.

Of course, Islam Karimov being one of the most brutal dictators on earth - he’s noted for boiling his political opponents alive - wouldn’t affect GOP thinking.

If anyone actually wants to know anything about Uzbekistan, then the memoir of the former British ambassador, “Murder in Samarkand”, is a cracking story. He was sacked for not covering up Karimov’s brutality.

335 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:10:11am

re: #334 po8crg

Of course, Islam Karimov being one of the most brutal dictators on earth - he’s noted for boiling his political opponents alive - wouldn’t affect GOP thinking.

It might. It could even be a reason to put him on the ticket. /


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