Pamela Geller on Iranian Terror Plot: \'This is the Pengaon's [sic] Jurisdiction\'

Pamela Geller on Iranian Terror Plot: 'This is the Pengaon’s [sic] Jurisdiction'

The keyboard’s been drinking again

US NewsOctober 2011 • Views: 26,432

US officials announced today that they have foiled an Iranian-backed terrorist plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to Washington DC.

At a news conference, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said two Iranians have been charged with conspiracy to murder a foreign official and conspiracy to commit an act of international terrorism, among other charges. One of the suspects, an Iranian with U.S. citizenship, was arrested in New York last month; the other, an Iranian, remains at large.

“The United States is committed to holding Iran accountable for its actions” and would take “further action” against Iran later Tuesday, Holder said.

The suspects were identified as Manssor Arbabsiar, a 56-year-old from Texas, and Gholam Shakuri, an Iran-based member of Iran’s Quds Force, an elite division of that country’s Revolutionary Guard Corps responsible for foreign operations.

In addition to killing the Saudi ambassador, Adel al-Jubeir, officials said, the plot envisioned later striking other targets. The officials said that the plan to kill the ambassador was directed by Tehran, and that Arbabsiar has acknowledged that he was recruited and funded by men he understood to be senior officers in the Quds Force.

When terrorist plots are announced, the discerning wingnut turns to hate group leader Pamela Geller for incisive, well-reasoned commentary like this: ACT OF WAR: MUSLIM AMERICAN ET AL ARRESTED IN IRANIAN PLOT TO COMMIT A “SIGNIFICANT TERRORIST ACT IN THE UNITED STATES”!!!!!1

Why is that criminal gun runner Holder handling this? This is the Pengaon’s jurisdiction.

Has Hamas-tied CAIR filed a lawsuit against the FBI or DEA yet for Islamophobia?

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161 comments

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:56:49pm

Sorry to go OT, but there has been an important update to the faster than light neutrino story.

Neutrino update: Einstein reaches from the grave...

Two weeks ago, I wrote that the recent OPERA/CERN findings that showed certain neutrinos to be moving slightly faster than light we almost certainly the result of an experimental error. I wrote that the timing and the clocks would be of specific interest to getting to the bottom of this.

I had quipped that it would be important to check General Relativistic effects on the experiment and that it would be charming if Einstien reached out from the grave and killed this himself with GR.

That looks to have happened.

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:57:00pm

Is she the interwebs' most prolific drunk-poster or what?

Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:57:03pm

She's updated the post since she first put it up, without correcting "Pengaon."

The heroine of the right wing. Writer for World Net Daily.

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:57:14pm

Who the hell is the Pengaon she's going on about? Is he even a Christian?

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:57:27pm

Gog, Magog and Penagog?

jaunte Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:58:09pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sounds Cornish.

SpaceJesus Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:58:12pm

Wait, so he was going to assassinate another Muslim? Doesn't that make him Pam's hero?

BishopX Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:58:18pm

I think she means Uther Pendragon...still waiting for the lady of the lake to confirm...

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:58:28pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

It's never too early to go OT on a Geller thread. Sad about the neutrinos...I figured it was a clock sync problem...it was too good to be true.

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:59:11pm

re: #9 darthstar

It's never too early to go OT on a Geller thread. Sad about the neutrinos...I figured it was a clock sync problem...it was too good to be true.

I will just stick with the old trinos, tried and true...

SpaceJesus Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:59:15pm

re: #3 Charles

is she trying to say penguin or pentagon. i honestly don't know, because i have no idea how her crazy brain works.

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:59:30pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who the hell is the Pengaon she's going on about? Is he even a Christian?

I think he was one of the Hobbits Frodo was drinking with at the beginning of Lord of the Rings.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Oct 11, 2011 1:59:48pm

re: #3 Charles

The heroine of the right wing. Writer for World Net Daily.

And Breitbart's websites.

Someone Please Beam Me Up! Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:00:37pm

Is she saying that an army task force should have arrested the suspect? Or is the Pengaon supposed to pull active duty soldiers from their current duties and set them to scouring the US for the missing suspect?

Pam, dear, I really think the police and the FBI would do it better.

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:00:43pm

re: #11 SpaceJesus

is she trying to say penguin or pentagon. i honestly don't know, because i have no idea how her crazy brain works.

Image: juicedpen001-image.png

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:01:17pm

re: #13 000G

And Breitbart's websites.

Oh, and regular guest commentator of Fox Business' Eric Bolling.

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:01:21pm

re: #3 Charles

She's updated the post since she first put it up, without correcting "Pengaon."

The heroine of the right wing. Writer for World Net Daily.

That would constitute admitting that you were right. And she would rather be wrong than admit that you are right...this is the core of right-wing thinking.

btw, Better go check the Wiki site to see if someone has tried to change the article on the Penagon yet...

Someone Please Beam Me Up! Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:01:46pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Waaah, I want my FTL neutrinos back!

Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:02:48pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Bartender: Hey, We don't serve your kind here!
Neutrino walks into a bar...

Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:04:46pm

re: #8 BishopX

I think she means Uther Pendragon...still waiting for the lady of the lake to confirm...

Supreme Executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony!!!

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:04:53pm

And of course if Holder wasn't involved, she'd be livid because the Atorney Gnereal wasn't involved.

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:05:50pm

How soon until we see the demand that we start bombing Iran or even worse, nuking them?

Digital Display Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:06:06pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

Stand Back!
I'm going to try science

Iwouldprefernotto Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:06:29pm

I have a problem. If I claim Geller has become unhinged and next month she says something wackier, what do I call her then?

Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:06:42pm

re: #23 HoosierHoops

Stand Back!
I'm going to try science

Look at me still talking while there's science to do!

Gus Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:07:04pm

Uh no Pamela. This doesn't fall under the Pentagon's jurisdiction. Now put your plastic toy soldiers away and go home.

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:07:17pm

re: #22 Bubblehead II

How soon until we see the demand that we start bombing Iran or even worse, nuking them?

Years ago.

Proof FTL exists.

jaunte Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:07:30pm

re: #22 Bubblehead II

Herman Cain is almost there.

Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:07:33pm

re: #22 Bubblehead II

How soon until we see the demand that we start bombing Iran or even worse, nuking them?

As a member of the military I'd like Pam to slow her roll. We've got enough on our plate right now.

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:09:30pm

re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Years ago.

Proof FTL exists.

LOL. True. I should have asked, How soon until we see the demand that we start bombing Iran or even worse, nuking them, again?

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:09:51pm

re: #22 Bubblehead II

How soon until we see the demand that we start bombing Iran or even worse, nuking them?

That will be all over the web within hours, no worry. Right now they are too busy ragging on the Obama administration for "mishandling" it.

makeitstop Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:11:18pm

re: #29 rwdflynavy

As a member of the military I'd like Pam to slow her roll. We've got enough on our plate right now.

I see your point, but still - good luck with that.

We'd be in the 'war of the month club' if she had anything to say about it.

Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:11:21pm

re: #31 ralphieboy

That will be all over the web within hours, no worry. Right now they are too busy ragging on the Obama administration for "mishandling" it.

Apparently their definition of mishandling is stopping the plot. Hmmm.

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:12:03pm

re: #29 rwdflynavy

As a member of the military I'd like Pam to slow her roll. We've got enough on our plate right now.

//// But it would only take one small nuke to teach them and the entire M.E. a lesson.

Darth Vader Gargoyle Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:12:08pm

Gotta run. Stay classy Lizards!!

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:14:28pm

The Feds aren't perfect, but man do I love it when they get it right. Having the Iranians contact a DEA informant is absolutely rich. The drug cartel connection is an interesting one. What this says to me is that the Iranians are so weak that they can't even affect their schemes without the help of a third party.

Good job guys and thank you.

Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:18:20pm

re: #36 bloodstar

The Feds aren't perfect, but man do I love it when they get it right. Having the Iranians contact a DEA informant is absolutely rich. The drug cartel connection is an interesting one. What this says to me is that the Iranians are so weak that they can't even affect their schemes without the help of a third party.

Good job guys and thank you.

I think this also shows that the Iranians would like to work with the cartels but they don't already have a working relationship.

Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:20:17pm

It also just occured to me that this is what Bachmann might have been talking about when she claimed Hezbollah had established cells working in Mexico. She got the story wrong but she might have picked up bits of info from her service on the senate intel committee.

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:23:05pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

I think this also shows that the Iranians would like to work with the cartels but they don't already have a working relationship.

Which begs the question. If they wanted such a relationship, why didn't they go thru Chavez? Hell, that seems to be the more logical path to me. He could have easily "greased" the wheels to make such an arrangement possible.

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:24:30pm

re: #39 Bubblehead II

Which begs the question. If they wanted such a relationship, why didn't they go thru Chavez? Hell, that seems to be the more logical path to me. He could have easily "greased" the wheels to make such an arrangement possible.

Maybe Chavez has enough savvy to know it is in his interest to keep his nose out of something like that?

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:25:25pm

re: #39 Bubblehead II

Which begs the question. If they wanted such a relationship, why didn't they go thru Chavez? Hell, that seems to be the more logical path to me. He could have easily "greased" the wheels to make such an arrangement possible.

Hasn't Chavez been sick? And I agree with ralphie, Chavez for all his pro-Iranian rhetoric is no doubt concerned with keeping Chavez in power.

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:26:10pm

re: #40 ralphieboy

Maybe Chavez has enough savvy to know it is in his interest to keep his nose out of something like that?

Maybe. But if all the Iranians asked for was a contact point with the Cartels, without explaining why, what does he have to lose?

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:26:17pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

It also just occured to me that this is what Bachmann might have been talking about when she claimed Hezbollah had established cells working in Mexico. She got the story wrong but she might have picked up bits of info from her service on the senate intel committee.

I'd rather her be making stuff up from whole cloth than throwing out information that could compromise ongoing investigations. Sorry, but there are better ways to make your point.

I'm sure you could argue that the information was so vague as to render it meaningless to anyone plotting against the US, but IMO that would only apply to stupid and overconfident plotters. Smart and cautious ones would pull in the reigns for a while and go to ground if they thought that the feds were on to them.

Happily these plotters appear to fall into the first category.

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:27:25pm

Did Rick Perry Inflate Texas Job Numbers?

At the center of the claim is Perry’s $440 million Texas Enterprise Fund, which was designed to attract businesses to the state, and the governor’s subsequent claims of the program’s success. One state report from his office in 2011 bragged of creating 12,000 jobs with a $50 million grant to create a Texas A&M Institute for Genomic Medicine. But only ten people work in the new building and the WSJ found that the governor’s numbers used an incredibly broad metric that included jobs in sectors like “dental equipment, fertilizer manufacturing and medical imaging.”

Perry’s campaign told the paper that the figures hadn’t been “verified” yet, but that the program was an overall success.

makeitstop Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:27:50pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

It also just occured to me that this is what Bachmann might have been talking about when she claimed Hezbollah had established cells working in Mexico. She got the story wrong but she might have picked up bits of info from her service on the senate intel committee.

That's why she'd be an awful president. She'd end up blabbing details of things the public shouldn't be privy to, even if she wasn't smart enough to remember the details.

I'm so glad her campaign is on life support.

makeitstop Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:29:52pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Did Rick Perry Inflate Texas Job Numbers?

Ten, 12,000, what's the dif?

Texas Miracle!!!1ty

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:30:41pm

re: #45 makeitstop

That's why she'd be an awful president. She'd end up blabbing details of things the public shouldn't be privy to, even if she wasn't smart enough to remember the details.

I'm so glad her campaign is on life support.

"We're getting Bin LAden tomorrow afternoon in Abbotabad, Pakistan"
*Aide whispers in MB's ear*
"Did I say Bin Laden in Abbotabad, I meant yeah fuck it. We're getting you Osama."
Have to say how cool Obama was in the lead up to the Bin Laden death was very admirable. If you all recall, the annual White House Correspondent Dinner was the night before and he was joking around like no one's business.

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:31:39pm

Ugh...I missed my VM's undeploy warning and was six minutes late to renew my lease...now I have to redeploy my virtual machine...I hate VMLab policies like this.

jaunte Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:34:13pm

Michelle Malkin questions the timing, calling this capture a "diversion" from Fast and Furious.

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:34:22pm

A couple more points. It seems to me that the current administration is doing a fantastic job of stopping plots before they get off the ground. That's how they're proving their security mettle.

The prior administration tried to prove their security mettle by performing after the fact invasions and bombings.

And because the current administration isn't flashy, instead focusing on simply getting the job done, It means that people aren't noticing just how successful they've been. And that's kinda sad.

As a final point, if these allegations are proven, I'd be for military action. I wouldn't be gleeful about taking military action, but sometimes you don't have a choice.

Ugh.

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:34:43pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Did Rick Perry Inflate Texas Job Numbers?

Perry's a fluffer? I thought they only worked in the porn industry.

makeitstop Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:34:51pm

re: #47 HappyWarrior

"We're getting Bin LAden tomorrow afternoon in Abbotabad, Pakistan"
*Aide whispers in MB's ear*
"Did I say Bin Laden in Abbotabad, I meant yeah fuck it. We're getting you Osama."
Have to say how cool Obama was in the lead up to the Bin Laden death was very admirable. If you all recall, the annual White House Correspondent Dinner was the night before and he was joking around like no one's business.

That's part of why the RWNJs hate him so much. He knows how to do his job and can multitask.

Find me a GOP candidate who can do more than one thing at a time. I don't think there are any.

sagehen Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:35:16pm

re: #8 BishopX

I think she means Uther Pendragon...still waiting for the lady of the lake to confirm...

you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:35:47pm

re: #49 jaunte

Michelle Malkin questions the timing, calling this capture a "diversion" from Fast and Furious.

Funny would she say the same thing if this were happening in a McCain-Palin administration? *shakes magic 8 ball* "Extremely doubtful"

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:37:08pm

re: #50 bloodstar

After the fact invasions and bombings look cool on TV...make us seem more macho. Killing and capturing the fuckers before they strike is boring, but leaves plenty of room in the news cycle for missing white trash babies...not that the babies are trash--yet--but that their parents aren't exactly model citizens. Where's the infant? She went out for cigs...fuck if I know...

Obdicut Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:38:24pm

re: #52 makeitstop

That's part of why the RWNJs hate him so much. He knows how to do his job and can multitask.

Find me a GOP candidate who can do more than one thing at a time. I don't think there are any.

That's not true. Romney can pander and be passive-aggressive at the same time. Look at his performance at the values voter summit. Calls out intolerance (but not by name) and then doesn't have the courage to even say the name of his own religion.

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:38:45pm

re: #52 makeitstop

That's part of why the RWNJs hate him so much. He knows how to do his job and can multitask.

Find me a GOP candidate who can do more than one thing at a time. I don't think there are any.

They hate him even more since he's taken office because they know it's a long road to portray him as weak on terrorism no matter how hard they try to claim otherwise.

MittDoesNotCompute Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:39:08pm

re: #29 rwdflynavy

As a member of the military I'd like Pam to slow her roll. We've got enough on our plate right now.

Makes no difference to bigoted chickenhawks like Spencer, Geller, and their RWNJ confederates...nothing is more important to them than our nation's military doing their twisted bidding, like yesterday.

Except if any of those service members happen to be gay, in which case, they need to get drummed out.

sagehen Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:39:13pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

It also just occured to me that this is what Bachmann might have been talking about when she claimed Hezbollah had established cells working in Mexico. She got the story wrong but she might have picked up bits of info from her service on the senate intel committee.

You mean classified information that when a member of congress leaks it they're likely to lose their security clearance?

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:43:20pm

re: #58 talon_262

Makes no difference to bigoted chickenhawks like Spencer, Geller, and their RWNJ confederates...nothing is more important to them than our nation's military doing their twisted bidding, like yesterday.

Except if any of those service members happen to be gay, in which case, they need to get drummed out.

Gay or Muslim or don't agree with them. Remember Limbaugh and the phony soldiers. As far as I am concerned a man like Limbaugh does not have the right to question the legitimacy of anyone serving especially when he got out because of a pimple on his ass.

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:50:05pm

Cain Adviser: Questioning his 999 plan is "Washington Thinking"

Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:50:25pm

re: #40 ralphieboy

Maybe Chavez has enough savvy to know it is in his interest to keep his nose out of something like that?

Also, there's no honor among thieves. Chavez could secretly sell out the Iranians in return for a favor from Washington.

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:52:02pm

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What is his 999 plan?

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Although I have wondered for years whether Chavez has been helping the cartels.

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:52:59pm

re: #63 ProLifeLiberal

What is his 999 plan?

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Although I have wondered for years whether Chavez has been helping the cartels.

9% flat tax on everything.

Amory Blaine Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:53:35pm

Is Manssor Arbabsiar Turkish?

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:54:02pm

re: #63 ProLifeLiberal

What is his 999 plan?

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Although I have wondered for years whether Chavez has been helping the cartels.

9 percent flat income tax, 9% corporate tax, 9% national sales tax.

Chavez has an interest in destabilizing America, or at least embarassing or weakiening it. aid to the cartels, however indirect, would serve that end

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:54:24pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I see multiple problems.....

Like the poor being taxed for food for one.

Obdicut Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:54:36pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

9% flat tax on everything.

100% derp.

MittDoesNotCompute Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:54:58pm

re: #63 ProLifeLiberal

Although I have wondered for years whether Chavez has been helping the cartels.

I'm sure he probably has...

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:55:20pm

re: #66 ralphieboy

On Chavez:

That's my thought. His aid to FARC gave me the idea that he might do the same with the cartels.

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:55:33pm

Rick Perry's favorite Preacher: 70% of homosexuals have AIDS

Gus Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:57:06pm

re: #67 ProLifeLiberal

I see multiple problems...

Like the poor being taxed for food for one.

He's dreaming. You'd still have local sales taxes. Now imagine applying this to car purchases. So in Denver you'd have about 8% plus 9% for a total of 17% in taxes. Now that would apply to all taxed purchases.

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:57:20pm

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain Adviser: Questioning his 999 plan is "Washington Thinking"

Uh huh.

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:57:37pm

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Citation Needed

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:57:47pm

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Perry's favorite Preacher: 70% of homosexuals have AIDS

Lovely. Stupid bigot.

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:58:10pm

re: #72 Gus 802

So, in other words, his elitist ass wants a regressive tax.

goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:58:19pm

re: #68 Obdicut

100% derp.

Seriously. The bottom 40% of income earners control 0.3% of the wealth, so let's force them to pay a 9% surcharge on raw, unprepared food. It's the most regressive pile of shit imaginable.

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:58:58pm

Switzerland has a low basic tax rate, around 15% with very few deductions or deferrals allowed. It ecnourages people to put their effort into creating wealth rather than hiding it from the tax man.

I understand the thinking behind it, but tax loopholes are such a major part of the US economy that we would die of withdrawl symptoms if they were removed.

And the Swiss have another odd quirk: although your tax returns are private, the amount you actually pay in taxes is public information.

That has led in the past to cases of people who want to inflate their appearance of wealth actually paying more taxes than they had to...

Gus Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:59:11pm

re: #76 ProLifeLiberal

So, in other words, his elitist ass wants a regressive tax.

That's what it would be. And it would be immediate and at the cash register. It would kill a lot of retail sales IMO.

Ming Tue, Oct 11, 2011 2:59:18pm

re: #47 HappyWarrior

"We're getting Bin LAden tomorrow afternoon in Abbotabad, Pakistan"
*Aide whispers in MB's ear*
"Did I say Bin Laden in Abbotabad, I meant yeah fuck it. We're getting you Osama."
Have to say how cool Obama was in the lead up to the Bin Laden death was very admirable. If you all recall, the annual White House Correspondent Dinner was the night before and he was joking around like no one's business.

Yes. That's the difference between "tough Texas talk" (Bush Junior), versus actually protecting America (Obama, and in my opinion Bush Senior as well).

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:01:18pm

Bush: Bring 'em on!
Obama: Take 'em out!

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:01:35pm

re: #76 ProLifeLiberal

So, in other words, his elitist ass wants a regressive tax.

That's Washington talk heh but yes it is. It strikes me as interesting that supposedly anti tax Republicans have no problem with a really high national sales tax. I actually think the better policy would be to have a small or no sales tax and replace the lost revenue with a smaller income tax. A low sales tax is arguably good for consumers.

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:03:34pm

Bachmann assures everyone her campaign is doing just peachy

Bachmann and her aides insist everything is going according to plan and they are taking a long-term view of what is needed to carry the campaign through the caucuses in January.

But under the surface, the campaign is emitting telltale warning signs: drooping poll numbers, the loss of major aides and the closure of Bachmann’s suburban Washington office.
...
“She’s in a position where delusion is presenting itself as the only opportunity, and it exists only in her mind,” said Chris Ingram, a Republican strategist not working for any of the GOP candidates. “Whenever you’re in the position to start referring to yourself as the comeback kid, that’s an acknowledgement that things aren’t going real well.”

goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:04:24pm

re: #81 ralphieboy

Bush: Bring 'em on!
Obama: Take 'em out!

"I've got a controversial idea. What if we stopped using our troops as bait, getting them blown up, etc. and simply shot the terrorists in the face?"

Sheila Broflovski Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:05:59pm

Maybe she's talking about the moonbat drunken blogger, Pandagon? They have a lot in common (including their fondness for vodka)

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:07:13pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

With a missile!

Seriously, while I am critical of Obama on some things (A little too compromising), the way he has handled our terrorism issue has been fantastic. Since we can't exactly get into a position to arrest these bastards, we might as well blow them up.

On foreign policy, he has been pretty dang good.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:07:32pm

re: #85 Alouette

Maybe she's talking about the moonbat drunken blogger, Pandagon?

It's Pendragon! She is Morgan Le Fey... Risen to imprison the Merlin of reason and destroy the Camelot of basic decency!

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:08:22pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

That's Washington talk heh but yes it is. It strikes me as interesting that supposedly anti tax Republicans have no problem with a really high national sales tax. I actually think the better policy would be to have a small or no sales tax and replace the lost revenue with a smaller income tax. A low sales tax is arguably good for consumers.

Adjust tax rates so executives are penalized for taking those huge bonuses and stock options, making them less worthwhile, and instead make paying their employees better business sense, by giving the majority of people the means to drive economic growth and sales, not a few people hoarding wealth and hiding it in hedge funds and offshore accounts.

JamesS Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:09:43pm

Penguin, obviously ... she's been watching too much Batman. Really, it's primarily a matter for the Secret Service (who are tasked with the protection of foreign diplomats) and presumably also the Saudi security services (who will be tasked with ensuring the safety of their own personnel).

In a way, that means she's actually partly right, though not in the way she means ... by law, the Secret Service is empowered to draw on military resources as needed to fulfil their mission. Not exactly "Pentagon's Jurisdiction" though.

As for "further action", legally I suppose it could be painted as an "act of war" - but more likely it'll mean kicking out some Iranian diplomats, limiting movement by their UN delegates to the area allowed by the UN treaty, the usual stuff, just like when Soviet spies got caught - or, more recently, I think in the UK over the Litvinenko assassination?

On the tax loophole issue, I think phasing out a lot of the deductions, exemptions etc along with a reduction in the notional rate should work - just balance it so the lost deductions more or less balance the savings from the lower rate. Converting some tax deductions into tax credits reduces their value to higher rate tax payers, and their cost to the government, but shouldn't hurt too much. Of course, the Alternative Minimum Tax has a nice simple rate with few deductions allowed, but has a very bad press ... maybe it could be rehabilitated?

garhighway Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:10:07pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

That's Washington talk heh but yes it is. It strikes me as interesting that supposedly anti tax Republicans have no problem with a really high national sales tax. I actually think the better policy would be to have a small or no sales tax and replace the lost revenue with a smaller income tax. A low sales tax is arguably good for consumers.

The Rs have completely lost sight of the need for consumer demand to fuel the economy. Instead, they adopt a top-down look at the economy that says if we bribe corporations and rich guys with tax breaks, they'll create jobs even when there is no demand for their goods/services. The subtext there is a fairy tale about how the "job creators" (I love the religious/mystical qualities of that term) would be creating lots of jobs but for their uncertainty about some unspecified bad Obama action yet to come.

I live my life in corporate America, and I know for a fact that no major company would pass up the chance to tap unmet customer demand if they saw it. Everyone wants to grow. Everyone wants to sell. If there was an opportunity to add some people to make more money, we'd be on that in an instant. We don't because the demand ain't there.

And then along comes Cain, who would further destroy demand with that tax. It is massively and irretrievably stupid.

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:11:48pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Adjust tax rates so executives are penalized for taking those huge bonuses and stock options, making them less worthwhile, and instead make paying their employees better business sense, by giving the majority of people the means to drive economic growth and sales, not a few people hoarding wealth and hiding it in hedge funds and offshore accounts.

Yeah that would make sense too. There's no good reason why workers' incomes shouldn't be rising in an economy like ours. But somehow it's "hating the rich" to feel that way in the minds of a snob like Cain.

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:12:02pm

re: #89 JamesS

I still wonder one thing:

If Iran had been able to pull this off (meeting with a Los Zetas member instead of DEA agent), what was the plan afterwards, what was the goal?

I know Iran has gotten stupid and delusional lately, but seriously: What was the Plan?

garhighway Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:12:29pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

"I've got a controversial idea. What if we stopped using our troops as bait, getting them blown up, etc. and simply shot the terrorists in the face?"

Speaking of shooting people in the face, check this out:

Onion Video

It's priceless.

FQ Kafir Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:15:05pm

Stopped going to her site months ago. She is odious, crass, and ungracious.

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:15:31pm

re: #93 garhighway

Speaking of shooting people in the face, check this out:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

It's priceless.

classic onion: the headline says it all, the article is just follow-up and filler

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:16:53pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

Yeah that would make sense too. There's no good reason why workers' incomes shouldn't be rising in an economy like ours. But somehow it's "hating the rich" to feel that way in the minds of a snob like Cain.

Its the same idiots who claim lowering the minimum wage will create more jobs.

If 10 people can do the job at my business, why would paying them less suddenly make me want to hire more? I'll keep the 10 workers I've got, lower their wages (to avoid layoffs) and pocket the difference.

ProGunLiberal Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:17:23pm

re: #94 FQ Kafir

Who? Pamela or Pandagon?

garhighway Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:18:37pm

re: #95 ralphieboy

classic onion: the headline says it all, the article is just follow-up and filler

I like the parts about how deeply layered the game experience is, and how in subsequent mods you'll be able to shoot animals in the face, too.

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:18:37pm

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its the same idiots who claim lowering the minimum wage will create more jobs.

If 10 people can do the job at my business, why would paying them less suddenly make me want to hire more? I'll keep the 10 workers I've got, lower their wages (to avoid layoffs) and pocket the difference.

Not just that but that said policy helps workers.

100

God of Binders with Women Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:19:11pm

Why is that criminal gun runner Holder handling this? This is the Pengaon’s jurisdiction.
Has Hamas-tied CAIR filed a lawsuit against the FBI or DEA yet for Islamophobia?

I dn't see wat the big deel is.

101

AK-47% Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:20:51pm

newsmax is already calling it an "act of war", and despite giving Holder credit for foiling the plot, stating that Obama's policies have "emboldened Iran".

ergo: the only thing that will dis-embolden them is to nuke them out of existence...

102

thatthatisis Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:21:57pm

And Drudge's headline is "TIMING? U.S. busts two Iranians today over terror plot Obama was briefed about in June..."

103

FQ Kafir Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:22:23pm

re: #97 ProLifeLiberal

Pamela. Too much crap, not enough substance. Plus, she sucks.

104

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:24:13pm

Conservative Fundraiser Wants To ‘Clear K Street Of Protesters’ By Hitting ‘A Few With A Car’

105

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:24:33pm

re: #102 thatthatisis

And Drudge's headline is "TIMING? U.S. busts two Iranians today over terror plot Obama was briefed about in June..."

Shit Obama was briefed on the Bin Laden site sometime before they actually got him. Maybe just maybe Matt they wanted get their facts straight and not fuck this up.

106

HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:25:15pm

re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Conservative Fundraiser Wants To ‘Clear K Street Of Protesters’ By Hitting ‘A Few With A Car’

Punk asshole.

107

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:26:18pm

Bachmann releases economic plan, hilarity ensues

– CORPORATE TAX GIVEAWAYS: Bachmann has consistently called for a corporate tax repatriation holiday which would cost billions but, if history is any indication, result in few job gains. The last time Congress approved such a holiday — which Bachmann calls “true stimulus” — the companies that benefited the most cut hundreds of thousands of jobs.

– REPEALING WALL STREET REFORM: Bachmann has loudly and proudly been calling for the repeal of the Dodd-Frank financial reform law, which she says is “killing the banking industry” (even as banks haul in record profits). The recession caused by Wall Street malfeasance has cost the country 14 million jobs, but Bachmann believes going back to that regulatory structure would lead to job growth.

– DRILL, BABY, DRILL: Bachmann plans to create more than 1 million jobs via more drilling for oil, using an oft-repeated statistic that “exaggerate[s] the effect that looser drilling policies would have on employment,” never mind ignoring the environmental destruction that could occur.

– REPEALING FANTASY REGULATIONS: Bachmann claims that “business owners have lost economic liberty under the weight of $1.8 billion annually in compliance costs with government regulations.” This number is pure fantasy, cooked up by right-wing business groups intent on allowing corporations to pollute at will and treat their workers however they see fit.

– CUTTING TAXES FOR THE RICH: Bachmann pays lip service to reforming both the corporate and personal income taxes, but the only concrete tax cut that she lays out is eliminating the estate tax, which would aid only the richest households in the country, while creating no jobs.

108

makeitstop Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:27:34pm

re: #56 Obdicut

That's not true. Romney can pander and be passive-aggressive at the same time. Look at his performance at the values voter summit. Calls out intolerance (but not by name) and then doesn't have the courage to even say the name of his own religion.

Good point. After I posted I thought 'Wait - Bachmann can mangle facts and be holier-than-thou at the same time.'

109

makeitstop Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:29:51pm

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachmann assures everyone her campaign is doing just peachy

Youtube Video

I love that clip.

110

garhighway Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:33:40pm

re: #109 makeitstop

[Video]I love that clip.

Any article that has a sentence talking about "elevating Guy Short" is worth reading.

111

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:33:50pm

NYPD infiltrates colleges to investigate Islamic paintballing

Investigators have been infiltrating Muslim student groups at Brooklyn College and other schools in the city, monitoring their Internet activity and placing undercover agents in their ranks, police documents obtained by The Associated Press show. Legal experts say the operation may have broken a 19-year-old pact with the colleges and violated U.S. privacy laws, jeopardizing millions of dollars in federal research money and student aid.
...
The documents show police were worried about "militant paintball trips" organized by Muslim students at Brooklyn College. The Justice Department has in the past accused would-be terrorists of using paintball games as a sort of paramilitary training. But current and former officials said there was no standard for what kind of paintball trips the NYPD considered militant.

An old website formerly used by the group shows photos from one of these trips to a paintball range in Jim Thorpe, Pa. An announcement for an upcoming trip gives strategy tips like separating players into offensive and defensive lines. It jokingly describes the "luxurious cheesebus" members will ride in and advises them to check "the back of your `Fruit of the Loom'" for equipment sizes.

Islamic Society members said it has been years since members did any organized paintball trips. They scoffed at the NYPD report, noting that the club has also organized basketball, football and cricket games in the past.

"You could say the same thing about football," said Karim Azzat, 19, a sophomore film major. "You know, football's violent. They could say, `They're trying to teach Muslims how to hit.'"

112

Digital Display Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:33:58pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Adjust tax rates so executives are penalized for taking those huge bonuses and stock options, making them less worthwhile, and instead make paying their employees better business sense, by giving the majority of people the means to drive economic growth and sales, not a few people hoarding wealth and hiding it in hedge funds and offshore accounts.

Man..That is just so wrong..First executives don't take bonuses and Stock.. They are rewarded with them by the corporation.. The board considers it a reward for a job well done..
Now we get a bonus every year and it is a complex formula of pay out depending on numerous economic issues and performance...
I like my bonus and I pay a shit load of taxes on it..
I don't care if kids protesting for weeks and sleeping all night in parks like it or not nor if they don't think it's fair to them... Go work yourself and start with a bootstrap first..And earn the money yourself.. You can't have what I worked for...I pay enough taxes...I think I paid like 25 grand just in Federal taxes last year..My ass hurts enough.. The Government doesn't use jelly April 15th...Imagine if you were a Millionaire...I think the Clinton rates were fair for everybody.

113

Cheechako Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:35:41pm

Son of a gun. Just got a call from Chris Cristie announcing his support for Romney. That was quick!! And I've never sent even a nickle to any political candidate. Oh I take that back. I once spent a dollar for a "George Wallace for President" pin. Thought it might be a good investment.

114

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:37:49pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

Man..That is just so wrong..First executives don't take bonuses and Stock.. They are rewarded with them by the corporation.. The board considers it a reward for a job well done..
Now we get a bonus every year and it is a complex formula of pay out depending on numerous economic issues and performance...
I like my bonus and I pay a shit load of taxes on it..
I don't care if kids protesting for weeks and sleeping all night in parks like it or not nor if they don't think it's fair to them... Go work yourself and start with a bootstrap first..And earn the money yourself.. You can't have what I worked for...I pay enough taxes...I think I paid like 25 grand just in Federal taxes last year..My ass hurts enough.. The Government doesn't use jelly April 15th...Imagine if you were a Millionaire...I think the Clinton rates were fair for everybody.

The executives who collapsed the mortgage market really worked hard to get the bonuses paid for by TARP, I guess.

115

garhighway Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:40:01pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

Man..That is just so wrong..First executives don't take bonuses and Stock.. They are rewarded with them by the corporation.. The board considers it a reward for a job well done..
Now we get a bonus every year and it is a complex formula of pay out depending on numerous economic issues and performance...
I like my bonus and I pay a shit load of taxes on it..
I don't care if kids protesting for weeks and sleeping all night in parks like it or not nor if they don't think it's fair to them... Go work yourself and start with a bootstrap first..And earn the money yourself.. You can't have what I worked for...I pay enough taxes...I think I paid like 25 grand just in Federal taxes last year..My ass hurts enough.. The Government doesn't use jelly April 15th...Imagine if you were a Millionaire...I think the Clinton rates were fair for everybody.

The way to attack that is to address deductibility of the payments by the company-employer.

Assume, for example, that corp couldn't deduct the cost of bonuses/options for anyone that it paid more than $x dollars in a year. Assuming the value of X is set fairly high, you would only affect the more egregious examples. Or you could do a sliding scale: the corp can deduct it all for employees making less than $500K, 1/2 between $500K and $1.5M, and none for those above that.

I doubt that raises much revenue, but it ought to tamp down some on the worst cases.

116

Digital Display Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:41:28pm

re: #114 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The executives who collapsed the mortgage market really worked hard to get the bonuses paid for by TARP, I guess.

I don't disagree with you on that point

117

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:43:27pm

P.S. I'm not asking to be a millionaire. I'm asking to make enough as a certified professional in my industry to be able to make enough to provide for my family without going into crippling debt and maybe actually being able to buy a house someday.

118

William of Orange Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:48:51pm

Telling example:

Blind rage kills spell check!

119

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:52:42pm

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Perry's favorite Preacher: 70% of homosexuals have AIDS

20 year-old talking point.

My parents tried to use it to scare me away from The Lifestyle Choice^TM

120

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:53:28pm

re: #119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

20 year-old talking point.

My parents tried to use it to scare me away from The Lifestyle Choice^TM

I got "Don't catch anything you can't throw back."

Oh, and a daily reminder from my dad of "Stay away from the idiots."

121

Targetpractice Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:53:36pm

Evening, my fellow lizards. What's the good word?

122

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:54:27pm

re: #121 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Evening, my fellow lizards. What's the good word?

Poontang.

123

Cheechako Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:55:38pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

Man..That is just so wrong..First executives don't take bonuses and Stock.. They are rewarded with them by the corporation.. The board considers it a reward for a job well done..
Now we get a bonus every year and it is a complex formula of pay out depending on numerous economic issues and performance...
I like my bonus and I pay a shit load of taxes on it..
I don't care if kids protesting for weeks and sleeping all night in parks like it or not nor if they don't think it's fair to them... Go work yourself and start with a bootstrap first..And earn the money yourself.. You can't have what I worked for...I pay enough taxes...I think I paid like 25 grand just in Federal taxes last year..My ass hurts enough.. The Government doesn't use jelly April 15th...Imagine if you were a Millionaire...I think the Clinton rates were fair for everybody.

How about this situation for paying bonuses:

This is Why They Hate You and Want You to Die

124

windsagio Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:56:31pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I always preferred 'tail'.

125

Targetpractice Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:56:47pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Poontang.

Animal Mother, is that you?

126

Amory Blaine Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:57:41pm

re: #119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

20 year-old talking point.

My parents tried to use it to scare me away from The Lifestyle Choice^TM

My dad showed me a Penthouse or other magazine when I was 10. It had detailed photos of advanced venereal disease victims in it. That coupled with a Catholic upbringing did the trick.

127

windsagio Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:57:55pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

"Taking bonuses" often applies more than that because many of the higher execs are either on the boards or are close personal friends of people on the boards. Its a deeply incestuous relationship.

128

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 3:59:04pm

re: #123 Cheechako

How about this situation for paying bonuses:

This is Why They Hate You and Want You to Die

HP's Tab for Fired CEOs Tops $80M

Start in 2005 with the ouster of Carly Fiorina, who was forced out because the board was disappointed with the lack of stock market enthusiasm for the Compaq merger. It was reported at the time that Fiorina walked out the door with $21.4 million.

But then there were the deal sweeteners. Factor in options, restricted stock, and her pension, and Fiorina pulled in another $21 million, putting her farewell jackpot at over $42 million.

For six years on the job.

Next out: Mark Hurd, who was fired amid a Silicon Valley soap opera involving allegedly bogus expense report filings and an affair with a consultant. Hurd, of course, landed on his feet at Oracle, and that resulted in a smaller severance. In a deal that let him keep his Oracle job as co-president, Hurd waived rights to roughly 350,000 performance-based stock units. Yet he still sauntered out the HP door with a reported $12.2 million.

Not bad for four years on the job.

Now it is Leo Apotheker’s turn. With just 11 months in the CEO chair, Apotheker was fired Thursday and will walk away with a reported $25.2 million in severance pay.

Which brings us to eBay’s Meg Whitman. If things keep going this way, the HP gig could help Whitman replenish her personal coffers, depleted by the pumping of $119 million into a futile bid to become California’s governor.

129

jvic Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:03:32pm

1. It's said that when you see one cockroach, you'll soon see others. Hopefully the analogy does not hold wrt the Iranian plot.

2. If this is as serious as it might--might--be, the Bush flub regarding Saddam's nucular program will make it that much harder to pull the country together for an effective response.

3. If drugs weren't illegal, the Mexican cartels wouldn't exist. If they didn't exist, we wouldn't have caught an Iranian trying to contact them. So let's double the funding for the Drug War! ///

4. Pamela, what have you done?! The Pengaon is a superhero whose very existence was an absolute secret!

130

Digital Display Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:03:34pm

re: #127 windsagio

"Taking bonuses" often applies more than that because many of the higher execs are either on the boards or are close personal friends of people on the boards. Its a deeply incestuous relationship.

Perhaps.. But they signed contracts...It may have been a dumb contract on the Corporation's part.. Same with signing a Basketball Player to the max contract for 65 million dollars then the player never does anything again but eat and star on Cribs...Still got to pay him his money.. LOL
It's either that or allow the Government to set the terms of private contracts in America...Is that what is considered fair and moral?

131

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:03:46pm

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I got "Don't catch anything you can't throw back."

Oh, and a daily reminder from my dad of "Stay away from the idiots."

Ha, always good advice, both of those.

132

sffilk Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:04:40pm

re: #3 Charles

She's updated the post since she first put it up, without correcting "Pengaon."

The heroine of the right wing. Writer for World Net Daily.

I just checked and the spelling has been corrected, just as an FYI. That said, she's still NUTS!!!!!

133

William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:05:18pm

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I got "Don't catch anything you can't throw back."

Oh, and a daily reminder from my dad of "Stay away from the idiots."

My mother's advice to me was "Don't do anything I wouldn't do and only half of what I would."

134

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:05:26pm

re: #121 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Evening, my fellow lizards. What's the good word?

Spaghetti. It's whats for dinner tonight. Along with Texas Toast.

135

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:06:10pm

re: #130 HoosierHoops

Perhaps.. But they signed contracts...It may have been a dumb contract on the Corporation's part.. Same with signing a Basketball Player to the max contract for 65 million dollars then the player never does anything again but eat and star on Cribs...Still got to pay him his money.. LOL
It's either that or allow the Government to set the terms of private contracts in America...Is that what is considered fair and moral?

The government can influence the terms by rewarding or penalizing economic behavior via taxation or regulation, the way government's have traditionally controlled markets for centuries.

136

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:06:52pm

re: #112 HoosierHoops

Man..That is just so wrong..First executives don't take bonuses and Stock.. They are rewarded with them by the corporation.. The board considers it a reward for a job well done..
Now we get a bonus every year and it is a complex formula of pay out depending on numerous economic issues and performance...
I like my bonus and I pay a shit load of taxes on it..
I don't care if kids protesting for weeks and sleeping all night in parks like it or not nor if they don't think it's fair to them... Go work yourself and start with a bootstrap first..And earn the money yourself.. You can't have what I worked for...I pay enough taxes...I think I paid like 25 grand just in Federal taxes last year..My ass hurts enough.. The Government doesn't use jelly April 15th...Imagine if you were a Millionaire...I think the Clinton rates were fair for everybody.

Except we're not using Clinton Rates right now.

And bonuses are not the same as Stock.

And most people can't get their pay in stock to get even more reduced taxes.

And if you paid 25 grand in federal taxes then you're making north of 100K. My SO is single with a house and she makes north of 100K and she didn't even pay 25K in federal taxes. If you're married with children, even if you take a standard deduction (ie: no rent, student loans) and no deduction for retirement, you'd have to make over 150K just to have to pay 25K in federal taxes.

If you wanted to pay less taxes, you could always just make less money and go Galt. ;)

137

Atlas Fails Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:07:06pm

re: #119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

20 year-old talking point.

My parents tried to use it to scare me away from The Lifestyle Choice^TM

Is it true that gay people eat the poo-poo? That's one of the talking points the (adult) homophobes I grew up with used to spew.

138

BongCrodny Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:07:43pm

re: #134 Bubblehead II

Texas Toast.

Rick Perry!

139

wrenchwench Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:09:19pm

re: #132 sffilk

I just checked and the spelling has been corrected, just as an FYI. That said, she's still NUTS!!!

She may have gotten an email from Robert Spencer, the uncredited co-author of her recent book.

ROBERT SPENCER [uncredited] is the director of Jihad Watch, a program of the
David Horowitz Freedom Center, and the author of ten books, including the New York Times bestsellers The Truth About Muhammad and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (both Regnery). He is coauthor, with Pamela Geller, of The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration's War On America (Threshold Editions/Simon & Schuster).

140

Kragar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:09:26pm

re: #137 Atlas Fails

Is it true that gay people eat the poo-poo? That's one of the talking points the (adult) homophobes I grew up with used to spew.

Reminded of the Bloodhound Gang:

"If your ass was a Chinese Restaurant, I'd have the Pupu platter."

141

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:10:30pm

re: #130 HoosierHoops

Perhaps.. But they signed contracts...It may have been a dumb contract on the Corporation's part.. Same with signing a Basketball Player to the max contract for 65 million dollars then the player never does anything again but eat and star on Cribs...Still got to pay him his money.. LOL
It's either that or allow the Government to set the terms of private contracts in America...Is that what is considered fair and moral?

I'd consider it to be moral and fair if the corporations are collecting corporate welfare or took bailout money to keep from going under.
Once they pay back their welfare and bailout money and stop being a leech on society, then they can set whatever contracts they want. but if my money is invested into your company to save your ass, then I should have a say in what your company pays to the top executives.

Right now there is no moral hazard in our economic system. And that lack of moral hazard is being abused by the top executives and investors.

142

Cheechako Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:12:02pm

re: #130 HoosierHoops

Perhaps.. But they signed contracts...It may have been a dumb contract on the Corporation's part.. Same with signing a Basketball Player to the max contract for 65 million dollars then the player never does anything again but eat and star on Cribs...Still got to pay him his money.. LOL
It's either that or allow the Government to set the terms of private contracts in America...Is that what is considered fair and moral?

I guess I'm too much old school. If I were to ever be on a corporate board I would pay generous bonuses based on how successful the CEO was in improving profits and stock value. If the CEO can't achieve these goals then out the door he goes with nothing.

//You've got nothing to worry about...it's highly unlikely I will ever be on a corporate board.

143

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:13:54pm

re: #138 BongCrodny

Not likely. I will probably vote Dem for the first time in my life. But Texas Toast beats

French

bread any time of the week.

Besides, they are just basic Garlic Bread. Texas Toast just happens to be thicker. Like Rick Perry.

144

Digital Display Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:14:17pm

re: #142 Cheechako

I guess I'm too much old school. If I were to ever be on a corporate board I would pay generous bonuses based on how successful the CEO was in improving profits and stock value. If the CEO can't achieve these goals then out the door he goes with nothing.

//You've got nothing to worry about...it's highly unlikely I will ever be on a corporate board.

I agree with you.. Bail out Corporations are a horse of a different color..

145

wrenchwench Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:15:43pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

This article calls Spencer the 'ghostwriter' of 'Geller's' book.

I knew she couldn't have written a book herself. Ain't enough spellcheckers in the whole world.

146

ArchangelMichael Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:17:10pm

re: #133 wlewisiii

My mother's advice to me was "Don't do anything I wouldn't do and only half of what I would."

"Never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese."

147

Obdicut Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:18:08pm

re: #141 bloodstar

I wish OWS was full of you, man.

148

BongCrodny Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:18:52pm

re: #143 Bubblehead II

Not likely. I will probably vote Dem for the first time in my life. But Texas Toast beats

bread any time of the week.

Besides, they are just basic Garlic Bread. Texas Toast just happens to be thicker. Like Rick Perry.

That's actually what I meant: Rick Perry's from Texas, *and* he's toast.

Could have been a bit more clear. :-)

149

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:18:57pm

I'd also have less issue with large corporate payouts and bonuses to top executives if a rising tide lifted all boats, but when the average income has stayed steady for people who are in the bottom 90%, but tripled for the top 1% (and that's after their income dropped in the last few years).

Add in the fact that Corporate profit after taxes versus employee compensation has jumped to a near 3:1 ratio since 2001 and you see exactly why the last two recoveries have been called 'jobless', Companies are figuring out how to make fewer people do more work, or outsourcing the work to cheaper locales.

Capitalism falls apart if enough people figure out how to game the system, and even as a libertarian, I fear we are near that point.

150

goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:19:01pm

In the 1950′s the pay separation between the CEO’s and average workers in what we now call the Fortune 500 companies used to be about 20 to 1 (a CEO made 20 dollars for every dollar a mid level manager made. ) 20 to 1 was here in American and extreme compared to the rest of the world where even now it is more commonly about half of that. During the 1980s the pay gap between CEO’s and average workers grew from 42:1 to almost 85:1. By 2004 it had jumped to 301 : 1. And now???… well now, right here in the good old US of A, the ratio of CEO pay to average worker pay is running 475 to 1 while in Japan, a very profitable nation with a very good standard of living, the ratio is 11 to 1.

151

darthstar Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:22:26pm

Bloomberg TV has the debate tonight, so no matter how shitty Perry does, it shouldn't hurt him too much.

152

Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:22:32pm

re: #148 BongCrodny

That's actually what I meant: Rick Perry's from Texas, *and* he's toast.

Could have been a bit more clear. :-)

Not to mention (intelligently) thick. As in, stupid.

153

BongCrodny Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:26:03pm

re: #149 bloodstar

I'd also have less issue with large corporate payouts and bonuses to top executives if a rising tide lifted all boats, but when the average income has stayed steady for people who are in the bottom 90%, but tripled for the top 1% (and that's after their income dropped in the last few years).

When I moved back to Maine from Boston in 1989, temp jobs in administrative support were paying ~~$11.00 per hour.

When I moved back to Maine from D.C. in 2010, temp jobs in administrative support were (and now are) paying ~~$11.00 per hour.

Not only does a rising tide not lift all boats, it pretty much swamps them all except the biggest fucking yachts.

154

windsagio Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:29:23pm

re: #130 HoosierHoops

my counterpoint would be that in all too many (but obviously not all) cases the people GIVING them the contracts care more about helping their buddies out than about the company or the shareholders.

155

windsagio Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:29:53pm

re: #147 Obdicut

I wish OWS was full of you, man.

So... very... kinky.

156

BishopX Tue, Oct 11, 2011 4:49:04pm

re: #150 goddamnedfrank

I think it's high time we started importing Japanese executives. They work at a thirtieth of the cost.

157

jvic Tue, Oct 11, 2011 5:09:13pm

re: #130 HoosierHoops

re: #127 windsagio

"Taking bonuses" often applies more than that because many of the higher execs are either on the boards or are close personal friends of people on the boards. Its a deeply incestuous relationship.

Perhaps.. But they signed contracts...It may have been a dumb contract on the Corporation's part.. Same with signing a Basketball Player to the max contract for 65 million dollars then the player never does anything again but eat and star on Cribs...Still got to pay him his money.. LOL
It's either that or allow the Government to set the terms of private contracts in America...Is that what is considered fair and moral?

Of course not, HH. I never once frowned when I learned what Michael Jordan was being paid. The trouble is that the current system is putting too few Michael Jordans and way too many Ryan Leafs in high places. (The Winner Take All Society was a book about this that I buried somewhere in storage.)

I am open to the argument that those who are hankering to repair the economy's compensation system might in fact make matters worse. That doesn't change my belief that the overall compensation system is seriously flawed, especially near the top.

But not enough is known to draw conclusions. If capitalism is being gamed, let's figure out how it's being done. I'd like to see a networking analysis of compensation committees (H/t: Daniel Ballard).

158

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 11, 2011 6:43:04pm

re: #49 jaunte

Michelle Malkin questions the timing, calling this capture a "diversion" from Fast and Furious.

We should have maybe let them kill the Saudi ambassador, and worried about it after we were done staking out Holder for the ants?

159

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 11, 2011 6:54:43pm

re: #119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

20 year-old talking point.

My parents tried to use it to scare me away from The Lifestyle Choice^TM

But lesbians...oh Lord, never mind. I'm not going to argue with your parents about this years after the fact, nor would I have conceded their point had you been male.

160

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Oct 11, 2011 9:38:27pm

re: #49 jaunte

Michelle Malkin questions the timing, calling this capture a "diversion" from Fast and Furious.

re: #102 thatthatisis

And Drudge's headline is "TIMING? U.S. busts two Iranians today over terror plot Obama was briefed about in June..."

The Right since Obama is one giant conspiracy theory machine. No wonder Alex Jones has become so popular in recent years.

161

Neo_ Wed, Oct 12, 2011 8:01:05am

"uncharacteristically bold" ??

The Iranians "outsource" their dirty work and that is "bold" ? Oh please.

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