Rick Perry’s Private American History

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Wingnuts • Views: 25,634

Are there any Tea Party Republicans who actually know American history? After last night’s GOP debate, wingnut extraordinaire Rick Perry once again revealed the shocking ignorance that lies beneath all the patriotic posturing: Rick Perry Mixes Up Dates of American Revolution.

…actually the reason that we fought the revolution in the 16th century was to get away from that kind of onerous crown if you will.

Yes, he really did miss the date by two centuries. “Lame” doesn’t even begin to describe this.

Much mockery ensued on Twitter.

Jump to bottom

137 comments
1 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:01:03am

Let’s go to Wikipedia and make it so.

2 windsagio  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:01:03am

how do you even make that mistake? Was he thinking of the ‘conquest’ instead?

3 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:01:05am

A thousand years ago in the future…

4 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:01:40am

I’m a Canadian and I know more American History than Rick Perry. And yet this man is taken seriously as a Presidential candidate.

Sad.

5 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:02:35am

re: #2 windsagio

how do you even make that mistake? Was he thinking of the ‘conquest’ instead?

Being stupid makes it easy.

6 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:02:39am

Eh, I’m generally willing to give a pass for this kind of thing. I did basically the exact same thing this weekend talking about the 19th century, with my head getting confused and saying 17th. Granted, I was feeling confused at the time and wasn’t all that certain about what I was saying.

7 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:03:24am

Meh. Just a slip of the tongue. It’s the things he really means to say that worry me more. Like his ‘energy policy’ that he’s going to be revealing.

Let me guess— flaming water taps for all!

8 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:03:33am

Maybe he was thinking of Wyatt’s Rebellion?

Just kidding. He probably never even heard of Wyatt’s Rebellion.

The precise reason for the uprisings has been subject to much debate. Many historians, such as D.M. Loades, consider the rebellion to have been primarily motivated by political considerations, not easily separated from religious ones in the 16th century, and notably the desire to prevent the unpopular marriage of Queen Mary to Prince Philip of Spain. On 16 November 1553 a Parliamentary delegation had waited upon Queen Mary, and formally requested that she choose an English husband, the obvious though tacit candidate being her kinsman Edward Courtenay, recently created Earl of Devon. The rebels explained that the reason for the rebellion was “to prevent us from over-running by strangers.” Nevertheless, all the rebel leaders were committed Protestants.

Do they teach about this at fundamentalist Bible school?

9 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:03:57am

///I thought we were fighting in the 16th century against the British Crown was about Ponce De Leon trying to capture the fountain of youth… shows you what I know…

10 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:04:03am

But Obama said there are 57 states!

11 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:05:39am

Perry probably had a slip of the tongue on being off on his American history by 2 centuries, but that’s the least of his problems. His policy choices are a huge problem and his fall in polls shows that the more people see him, the more they would rather not see him. He can’t pass the laugh test.

12 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:05:40am

“In 1292, Columbus sailed the ocean blue…”

13 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:05:52am

I’ll grant it’s funny but I’ll cut some slack too. I am sure the people who thought it was “proof” Obama was stupid for the 57 states gaffe will be bending over backwards to defend this though. Now if Perry’s asked about this ala Palin and Paul Revere’s Ride and persists, I’ll mock him but this while funny is somewhat understandable.

14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:06:08am

Tutorial: 1776 was in the 18th century.

We are currently in the 21st century in 2011.

15 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:06:15am
16 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:07:47am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GOP politicians are funny:

Tennessee Sponsor Of Guns In Bars Law Arrested For Driving Drunk With A Gun

Well that’s the exact reason why I think guns in bars is a bad idea. A weapon combined with alcohol can only end poorly.

17 darthstar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:07:56am

And save a pretzel for the gas jets.

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:08:08am

re: #14 EmmmieG

Tutorial: 1776 was in the 18th century.

We are currently in the 21st century in 2011.

Yea but was the millennium turn in 2000 or 2001?
/

19 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:08:40am

re: #14 EmmmieG

Tutorial: 1776 was in the 18th century.

We are currently in the 21st century in 2011.

I’d be extremely “meh” if he’d said 17th Century since the “Century” being number being one off the number of the hundred years it is (IE 15th century = year 14XX) can be kind of confusing as well, but clearly that wasn’t the mental mistake Rick Perry made.

20 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:09:12am

I’m not willing to cut him any slack, sorry. This guy presents himself as the most patriotic person in America, and makes the founding fathers and the Revolution a huge part of his spiel. For him to make such a ridiculous mistake really does reveal how utterly phony he is.

21 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:09:22am

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea but was the millennium turn in 2000 or 2001?
/

2000 was a leap year so 2003

22 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:10:08am

As a kid I had trouble understanding why the “Centuries” were numbered ahead, until a teacher asked “What Century was the Year 1”? All the kids answered “That was the First Century!” until the teacher asked, “So then, what Century was the Year 100?”

This same teacher would always read aloud essays and say “It Is” wherever a student has improperly used “it’s”

23 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:10:38am

The most likely cause of the error was that Perry had learned that century numbers were off by one from what you’d think they were—-we’re in the 20-somethings now, but we call it the 21st century, for instance.

So the revolution occurred in the 17-somethings, which would make it the 16th century. Oops. Wrong direction.

If you can’t handle this sort of stuff, stay away from the big words and just say our revolution in the 17hundreds.

But what politician can resist trying to appear more sophisticated, better educated, more refined, than he really is?

24 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:10:46am

re: #21 RogueOne

2000 was a leap year so 2003

My step dad was born on February 29, so he is now 18ish.

25 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:11:04am

Help me out here, lizards.

Yknow, the one Opie video KT posted?:

At around 1:28 a cowboy character appears. A little later he appears up-close.

Now…

Is that THIS GUY?

26 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:11:32am

re: #20 Charles

I’m not willing to cut him any slack, sorry. This guy presents himself as the most patriotic person in America, and makes the founding fathers and the Revolution a huge part of his spiel. For him to make such a ridiculous mistake really does reveal how utterly phony he is.

Oh, he’s as phony as they come. I just think there are way better examples of it that don’t involve him apparently just misspeaking/getting confused and subtracting instead of adding. Would rather focus on those, since those things can’t just be dismissed or excused as being a silly mistake.

27 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:11:40am

re: #25 000G

Help me out here, lizards.

Yknow, the one Opie video KT posted?:

[Video]At around 1:28 a cowboy character appears. A little later he appears up-close.

Now…

Is that THIS GUY?

It’s the same cross tattoo on his left cheek, I am pretty sure.

What a freak indeed (if I am right).

28 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:12:00am

Tutorial: July 4, 1776, the date that the Declaration was adopted. (It wasn’t signed until the calligrapher got done with it in August.)

September 17, 1787. The date the constitution was signed.

December 7, 1941.

November 11, 1919

Some dates you should just get right.

29 iceweasel  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:12:55am

The twitter responses are hilarious!

Ronald Reagan traveled back in time 6,000 yrs and slayed the dinosaurs in order to make America safe for Jesus #PerryHistory

pericat
People who don’t learn lessons of history are doomed to have yet another Texas governor as president. #perryhistory

30 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:13:05am

re: #28 EmmmieG

Tutorial: July 4, 1776, the date that the Declaration was adopted. (It wasn’t signed until the calligrapher got done with it in August.)

September 17, 1787. The date the constitution was signed.

December 7, 1941.

November 11, 1919

Some dates you should just get right.

April 14, 1865.
Nov. 22, 1963.
Sept. 11, 2001.

31 The Mountain That Blogs  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:14:05am

Eh, slips of the tongue happen all the time. Saying 16th instead of 18th bothers me a lot less than Bachmann’s long and drawn out explanations of her alternative version of history. If Perry doubles down on it though…

32 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:14:08am

re: #30 Alouette

April 14, 1865.
Nov. 22, 1963.
Sept. 11, 2001.

June 6, 1944

33 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:14:31am

October 29th, 1929.

34 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:14:41am

Perry claims decades long trend is Obama’s fault

TUMULTY: Governor Perry, over the last 30 years, the income of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans has grown by more than 300 percent, and yet we have more people living in poverty in this country than at any time in the last 50 years. Is this acceptable? And what would you do to close that gap?

PERRY: The reason we have that many people living in poverty is because we have got a president of the United States who is a job- killer. That’s what’s wrong with this country today. You have a president who does not understand how to create wealth. He has over-taxed, over-regulated the small-business men and women to the point where they are laying off people. Two-and-half million Americans are out there who have lost their jobs. We have got 14 million without work. This president, I will suggest to you, is the biggest deterrent to getting this country back on track, and we have to do everything we can to replace Barack Obama in 2012.

35 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:14:53am

re: #30 Alouette

April 14, 1865.
Nov. 22, 1963.
Sept. 11, 2001.

October 24th 1929
September 2 1945

36 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:15:19am

Can somebody please confirm this and assure me that I am not just seeing things?

re: #25 000G

Help me out here, lizards.

Yknow, the one Opie video KT posted?:

[Video]At around 1:28 a cowboy character appears. A little later he appears up-close.

Now…

Is that THIS GUY?

37 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:15:56am

re: #34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry claims decades long trend is Obama’s fault

Now, this I have a much bigger problem with. But yeah Republican candidates are acting like all the nation’s economic problems are Obama’s fault which is a load of shit.

38 Summer Seale  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:16:28am

Just totally OT, but to let everyone know:

iOS 5 is finally out since a few minutes. Go download if you have an iOS device. =)

39 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:17:23am

re: #38 Summer

Just totally OT, but to let everyone know:

iOS 5 is finally out since a few minutes. Go download if you have an iOS device. =)

Thx for the reminder. Got a couple people I need to notify.

40 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:17:53am

re: #3 Varek Raith

A thousand years ago in the future…

Image: PBF209-Now_Showing.jpg

41 iceweasel  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:18:38am

re: #34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry claims decades long trend is Obama’s fault

Obama and single mothers!

42 recusancy  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:18:44am
43 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:19:10am

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea but was the millennium turn in 2000 or 2001?
/

Back then I actually found some people on IRC dumb enough to argue that it was 2000.
half-/

44 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:19:30am

re: #41 iceweasel

Obama and single mothers!

Well, it was Frothy Mixture who added the single mom claim.

45 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:20:04am

June 21, 1788 & December 15, 1791 are two dates I’d consider important for any of them to know as well - ratification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights respectively.

46 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:20:10am

re: #41 iceweasel

Obama and single mothers!

I support single moms (when they’re pole dancing)
/

47 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:20:57am

re: #36 000G

I’m going to say its the same guy - because if you look at the guy’s neck - it looks like the same tattoo is showing. He’s been quite busy with additional tattoos since last seen on LGF, that’s for sure. But his choice of attire is still the same - awful.

And for what it’s worth - since this protest is going on within blocks of Park Place (and Ground Zero/WTC), it isn’t surprising that some of the same faces are showing up. They know the media’s there and are busy trying to get face-time regardless of the message they’re spreading.

48 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:21:50am

I think you folks are being way too forgiving of this. This wasn’t just a small slip-up — Perry really is ignorant of these things. And it’s not the first time he’s made a mistake like this, either.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

49 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:22:00am

He was just pining for the good old days.

50 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:22:00am

re: #45 wlewisiii

June 21, 1788 & December 15, 1791 are two dates I’d consider important for any of them to know as well - ratification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights respectively.

Hell, I’m easy. They can slide on the days as long as they can at least get the year right in off the cuff remarks. Its when they start skipping over centuries that you got to stop them.

51 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:23:21am

re: #45 wlewisiii

June 21, 1788 & December 15, 1791 are two dates I’d consider important for any of them to know as well - ratification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights respectively.

You know, when I go to Home Depot, I expect a floor employee to know where the pipe dope is.

52 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:23:41am

re: #48 Charles

I think you folks are being way too forgiving of this. This wasn’t just a small slip-up — Perry really is ignorant of these things. And it’s not the first time he’s made a mistake like this, either.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

True that. Guess that’s why I said small slack. And you’re right with these errors he has no room at all to go about acting like he’s this great student of the revolutionary era.

53 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:23:45am

re: #48 Charles

It’s not something that’s gonna get traction, though. IMHO.

54 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:24:24am

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

Back then I actually found some people on IRC dumb enough to argue that it was 2000.
half-/

Did they go to Kramer’s millennium party or Newman’s?
/

55 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:24:26am

Lech Walesa to head to OWS, warns of a revolt against capitalism if protesters are ignored.

56 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:25:05am

re: #36 000G

Can somebody please confirm this and assure me that I am not just seeing things?

It does look like him. I wonder what the sign he’s carrying says.

57 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:25:44am

re: #51 Amory Blaine

You know, when I go to Home Depot, I expect a floor employee to know where the pipe dope is.

Plumbing isle. (did I win?)
/

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:25:59am

re: #54 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did they go to Kramer’s millennium party or Newman’s?
/

If “Kramer” is at least associated with Seinfeld in my mind, Newman doesn’t ring a bell (unlike Paul Revere).

59 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:26:08am
60 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:26:30am

re: #56 RogueOne

It does look like him. I wonder what the sign he’s carrying says.

“Will Provocateur For BBQ?”

61 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:26:36am

OT but related to the general topic, I was watching the debate last night and I couldn’t understand what Cain’s explanation was for why a 9% sales tax wouldn’t be regressive. I am no business or economics student but wouldn’t common sense suggest that a 9% national sales tax on top of one’s own state sales tax be very detrimental to consumers? And Cain’s not the first one to propose a high national sales tax either. Jim DeMint has too I believe. Guys like Cain seem to have no problem with high taxes impacting the middle classes.

62 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:26:49am

re: #55 lawhawk

Heh. Um, don’t let the WWP people near him.

63 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:26:51am

re: #55 lawhawk

Lech Walesa to head to OWS, warns of a revolt against capitalism if protesters are ignored.

Ever since Walesa has been exposed as an SB informer, I kinda… dunno…

64 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:27:02am

re: #58 Sergey Romanov

If “Kramer” is at least associated with Seinfeld in my mind, Newman doesn’t ring a bell (unlike Paul Revere).

Newman was the fat postal worker.:)

65 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:28:14am

re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar

Plumbing isle. (did I win?)
/

Maybe, but you are now qualified to run in the primary.

66 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:28:41am

re: #64 Cannadian Club Akbar

OK. I believe you.

/

67 The Yankee  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:29:06am

I never felt comfortable using that terminology you know like the 16 century refers to the 1500’s and so on. I usually find it saver to just say the 1700’s rather then what century it happened in.

68 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:29:22am

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

He hasn’t said he actually informed, just that he signed an agreement to cooperate.

Certainly an action to judge him on, but saying that he informed is not yet supported by the facts.

69 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:29:30am

re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar

Only if you’re on an island. (isle?!) /grammarian off

70 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:31:01am

re: #69 lawhawk

Only if you’re on an island. (isle?!) /grammarian off

I live in Florida, back off!!
/

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:31:57am

I mean I want to while I know I can’t be 100% objective be fair to these guys but this is where Mitt Romney lost me last night for example. He’s talking about cutting social programs, taxes, etc and one of the moderators asked him about defense. He says clear as day that he will not cut defense. Now, riddle me this, we’ve got a huge deficit and defense is the biggest part of our budget expenditures and Mitt isn’t willing at all to consider defense cuts. It’s almost like he thinks the Defense budget comes from gold chests donated to the Treasury by leprechauns and isn’t part of the budget as a whole. Oh and he comes across as a total phony when he tries to act tough. But that’s Mitt Romney’s whole problem, he is a total phony.

72 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:32:06am

I can’t tell if this is a parody or not….
Flea-Bagger Wall Street Protester Laments and Gnashes Teeth! LMAO!!

73 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:33:46am

re: #47 lawhawk

I’m going to say its the same guy - because if you look at the guy’s neck - it looks like the same tattoo is showing. He’s been quite busy with additional tattoos since last seen on LGF, that’s for sure. But his choice of attire is still the same - awful.

Joe Buck rides again.

74 RogueOne  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:36:28am

This is interesting:

Japanese Government Nixed Idea of Obama Visiting, Apologizing for, Hiroshima
By Jake Tapper
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

In September 2009, US Ambassador to Japan John Roos cautioned the Obama administration that the Japanese government did not think it was a good idea for President Obama to visit Hiroshima to apologize for the US having dropped an atomic bomb on that city, a secret cable published by Wikileaks revealed.

Roos wrote the cable after his August meeting with Vice Foreign Minister Mitoji Yabunaka, reporting to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that the Japanese government felt “the idea of President Obama visiting Hiroshima to apologize for the atomic bombing during World War II is a ‘non-starter.’ While a simple visit to Hiroshima without fanfare is sufficiently symbolic to convey the right message, it is premature to include such program in the November visit.”

There’s a link to the cable in the ABC story.

75 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:37:44am

Cain: Missile Defense System would have stopped Iranian plot

CAIN: I would have done something earlier such that it probably would have encouraged them not to do something like this and that is one of great capabilities we have is our ballistic missile defense systems that could be upgraded, and we could place these Aegis ballistic missile defense systems in international water in that part of the world. […]

Because nothing deters Iranian businessmen from attempting to hire Mexican cartels to perform hits like an anti missile system on the other side of the planet.

76 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:41:00am

re: #74 RogueOne

This is interesting:

Japanese Government Nixed Idea of Obama Visiting, Apologizing for, Hiroshima
By Jake Tapper
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

There’s a link to the cable in the ABC story.

Honestly it would be a mistake to apologize for Hiroshima (as opposed to say possibly Dresden) what was done to Hiroshima had to be done to show how truly overwhelming American airpower was and that we wouldn’t need to invade Japan to destroy it completely.

If we hadn’t nuked Japan we would have needed to invade and then the causalities would have been much much worse for both sides….

Dropping the bomb on Hiroshima was the best choice possible in that situation and Americans should stand by it.

77 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:41:28am

re: #75 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: Missile Defense System would have stopped Iranian plot

Because nothing deters Iranian businessmen from attempting to hire Mexican cartels to perform hits like an anti missile system on the other side of the planet.

Not just any hits, either. They had to be bombings.

78 sagehen  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:42:26am

Also good on twitter today,
#OccupySesameStreet

79 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:43:07am

re: #68 Obdicut

Ah, so he finally admitted to at least signing the papers. I missed that.

Actually everything has been proven by documents. And when he became the president, he tried to destroy some of the evidence, which is also proven by documents. I’ve read the original book and all the relevant documents, including Walesa’s actual reports to the SB, as well as responses to the book. Walesa was an active SB informer in the beginning of 1970s who snitched on his colleagues is my conclusion from reading.

80 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:44:32am

What I am currently mulling over:

I earlier reported on this situation:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

My question is: Can this legitimately be considered terrorism? Not the first two murders, obviously, but the subsequent murders were killing of random people for the purpose of making a political or cultural point, which meets my definition of terrorism. If they had killed the young man for suspicion of being Jewish, and they were Palestinians, it would be considered terrorism. Why not for being White Supremacists?

Thoughts?

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:45:50am

re: #79 Sergey Romanov

Some of the reports that have survived and were published by IPN:

CZĘŚĆ II: Informacje agenturalne przekazane przez TW ps. „Bolek” znajdujące
się w zbiorach Biura Udostępniania i Archiwizacji Dokumentów IPN … … . 317
Nr 8. 1971 marzec, Gdańsk – Fragment opracowania i podsumowania informacji
TW ps. „Bolek”, sporządzonego przez kpt. Edwarda Graczyka … . . 319
Nr 9. 1971 kwiecień 17, Gdańsk – Informacja TW ps. „Bolek” przekazana
podczas spotkania z kpt. Henrykiem Rapczyńskim w hotelu „Jantar”
w Gdańsku … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … 322
Nr 10. 1971 kwiecień 22, Gdańsk – Doniesienie TW ps. „Bolek” przekazane
podczas spotkania z kpt. Henrykiem Rapczyńskim w hotelu „Jantar”
w Gdańsku … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … 326
Nr 11. 1971 kwiecień 27, Gdańsk – Doniesienie TW ps. „Bolek”, przekazane
podczas spotkania z kpt. Henrykiem Rapczyńskim i kierownikiem Grupy VI
Służby Bezpieczeństwa kpt. Czesławem Wojtalikiem w hotelu „Jantar”
w Gdańsku … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … 330
Nr 12. 1971 maj 26, [bm] – Fragment doniesienia TW ps. „Bolek”, przyjętego
przez kpt. Henryka Rapczyńskiego … … … … … … … … … … . 334
Nr 13. 1972 październik 3, Gdańsk – Fragment doniesienia TW ps. „Bolek”
z akt SO krypt. „Arka” … … … … … … … … … … … … … . . 335
Nr 14. 1971 listopad 25, Gdańsk – Informacja TW ps. „Bolek” przekazana
podczas spotkania z kpt. Zenonem Ratkiewiczem … … … … … … . . 336

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:46:27am

“Have either of you heard of, I don’t know, the something—Jamestown, Mayflower Daughters of the American Revolution Society?”

“The Jamestown, Mayflower Daughters?”

“I may have gotten the name wrong. They’re inviting the White House to participate in some kind of , I don’t know, Thanksgiving, Revolutionary War re-enactment.”

“C.J., let’s not torture American history completely to death.”

“Who the hell… . ”

“Jamestown was the 16th century. The Mayflower landed at Plymouth in the 17th century. The fathers of the daughters of the American Revolution fought in: the 18th century.”

83 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:47:01am

Warren Buffet releases tax returns

Made more and paid less than I did. Not that this should be surprising.

84 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:47:15am

re: #81 Sergey Romanov

And he also took money. E.g. here’s 700 zloties:

1974 czerwiec 29, Gdańsk – Pokwitowanie odbioru pieniędzy wypłaconych przez rezydenta
Służby Bezpieczeństwa w Stoczni Gdańskiej ps. „Madziar” TW ps. „Bolek”
dostarczone Annie Walentynowicz i podrzucone do mieszkania Marka Mądrzejewskiego
w 1982 roku
Tajne spec[jalnego] znaczenia
Pokwitowaniea
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85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:47:41am

smgdh.

And satt has his panties in a bunch because I use the generic term “confederate”.

Can it get any dumber than that guy?


re: #36 000G

Can somebody please confirm this and assure me that I am not just seeing things?

86 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:47:49am

re: #36 000G

Can somebody please confirm this and assure me that I am not just seeing things?

I don’t know if anyone else has already confirmed it, but, yes, it’s the same guy. He appears to have some new tattoos on his face and is covering up others, as well as forgoing the confederate flag (only on his boots this time).

Here’s a screencap from the video next to his photo. You may want to save it to your hard drive if you have a smaller screen as it’s fairly large and the pop-up will automatically re-size it.*

You have a good eye & memory.

* I made some quick adjustments to the contrast of the screencap in Photoshop and also sharpened his face so the tattoos would be clearer.

87 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:48:20am

re: #75 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: Missile Defense System would have stopped Iranian plot

Because nothing deters Iranian businessmen from attempting to hire Mexican cartels to perform hits like an anti missile system on the other side of the planet.

Thnx for last night big guy. Cuz of you I learned that acoustic “Black Hole Sun” Nice and simple. Will make the birds swoon at the firepit.

88 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:48:54am

re: #86 CuriousLurker

P.S. Note the handwriting on the sign is the same also.

Going back to work now…

89 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:49:09am

re: #80 EmmmieG

I read/posted this story the other day. (morning time) I personally don’t consider it terrorism. And not serial killers. They aren’t smart enough. Just killers on a spree with fucked up beliefs.

90 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:50:30am

re: #86 CuriousLurker

I don’t know if anyone else has already confirmed it, but, yes, it’s the same guy. […]

You have a good eye & memory.

Thanks. I think there’s more photos of him on Flickr @ the anti-mosque protest.

91 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:51:13am

Nothing says “follow me” better than a nice face tattoo.

92 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:52:30am

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

“Jamestown was the 16th century. The Mayflower landed at Plymouth in the 17th century. The fathers of the daughters of the American Revolution fought in: the 18th century.”

Jamestown was 17th century (1607). Roanoke was 16th century.

93 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:52:40am

re: #36 000G

Can somebody please confirm this and assure me that I am not just seeing things?

Yes, definitely the same guy.

94 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:52:52am

re: #89 Cannadian Club Akbar

I read/posted this story the other day. (morning time) I personally don’t consider it terrorism. And not serial killers. They aren’t smart enough. Just killers on a spree with fucked up beliefs.

What is the definition of terrorism? I’m not sure I could write a definition right now.

95 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:53:49am

re: #80 EmmmieG

What I am currently mulling over:

I earlier reported on this situation:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

My question is: Can this legitimately be considered terrorism? Not the first two murders, obviously, but the subsequent murders were killing of random people for the purpose of making a political or cultural point, which meets my definition of terrorism. If they had killed the young man for suspicion of being Jewish, and they were Palestinians, it would be considered terrorism. Why not for being White Supremacists?

Thoughts?

Bonnie & Clyde wannabees.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:54:15am

re: #92 Alouette

Jamestown was 17th century (1607). Roanoke was 16th century.

Various people have pointed this out to Aaron Sorkin since then, but it’s still a wonderful scene. This is the same one where Sam is trying to put a reference to the Pilgrims solving crimes into the President’s Thanksgiving address. “By day they worshipped according to their own beliefs—and at night they solved crimes.”

97 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:54:35am

re: #90 000G

Thanks. I think there’s more photos of him on Flickr @ the anti-mosque protest.

I don’t think I want to look at him any more, heh. Typical NYC loon that shows up everywhere.

The nose ring is a nice touch. //

98 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:55:07am

re: #94 EmmmieG

What is the definition of terrorism? I’m not sure I could write a definition right now.

Terrorist kill many people at one time (see mass murderers)
Serial killers kill over time (green river, btk, bundy)
It really does depend on one person’s definition, but they are just sad, little murderers.

99 iceweasel  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:55:46am

re: #80 EmmmieG

What I am currently mulling over:

I earlier reported on this situation:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

My question is: Can this legitimately be considered terrorism? Not the first two murders, obviously, but the subsequent murders were killing of random people for the purpose of making a political or cultural point, which meets my definition of terrorism. If they had killed the young man for suspicion of being Jewish, and they were Palestinians, it would be considered terrorism. Why not for being White Supremacists?

Thoughts?

I consider the murder of abortion providers to be a form of domestic terrorism. If these two set out with the intent of murdering black or jewish people to cause fear in those populations, or to declare a race war on them, it fits.

100 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:57:02am

re: #94 EmmmieG

What is the definition of terrorism? I’m not sure I could write a definition right now.

Honestly, I often wonder the same thing. I mean, some things clearly seem to be terrorism and others not, but there’s a very blurry line and I’m not always sure which side things fall on. I think it also depends on if you’re talking in a legal sense or more of a linguistic sense.

What I mean is that I think that committing violent acts to, well, terrorize, and coerce people into some sort of (in)action is a form of terrorism, but I’m not sure that always qualifies to a level where I’d want to define a person or group as a terrorist for legal purposes.

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:57:13am

re: #94 EmmmieG

What is the definition of terrorism? I’m not sure I could write a definition right now.

Dictionary.com says “The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.”

I think the question of whether this fits the ‘terror’ definition is whether the purpose of the violence is to intimidate or coerce.

So I’d say that a lynching is CLEARLY terrorism; this may have some vague goal of being terrorism but can’t be terribly effective because the actors have neither power nor great numbers nor political influence. Which brings us back to ‘hate crime’, a useful in-between category.

102 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:57:24am

re: #99 iceweasel

I consider the murder of abortion providers to be a form of domestic terrorism. If these two set out with the intent of murdering black or jewish people to cause fear in those populations, or to declare a race war on them, it fits.

I’ll agree if they were chosen because of who they are. If they were victims of circumstance, then no.

103 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:57:24am

re: #99 iceweasel

I consider the murder of abortion providers to be a form of domestic terrorism. If these two set out with the intent of murdering black or jewish people to cause fear in those populations, or to declare a race war on them, it fits.

Well, yes, actually, that was their intent.

Quote from her facebook page: “every jewish lie and every jewish slander is a scar of honor on the chest of a warrior.”

104 iceweasel  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:58:41am

re: #103 EmmmieG

Well, yes, actually, that was their intent.

Quote from her facebook page: “every jewish lie and every jewish slander is a scar of honor on the chest of a warrior.”

I found this little gem from the article you linked earlier:

Grigsby had written on her Facebook page about her devotion to “my son Danny, he’s my little aryan warrior, and my husband and best friend Dan. I plan to spend the rest of my life living out the 14 words and following the path of the Gods to the best of my ability.”

Aryan Warrior? The 14 Words? Definitely a white supremacist before she ever met up with this guy.

105 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:58:53am

re: #98 Cannadian Club Akbar

Terrorist kill many people at one time (see mass murderers)
Serial killers kill over time (green river, btk, bundy)
It really does depend on one person’s definition, but they are just sad, little murderers.

I don’t think you need to kill anyone to be a terrorist. “Only” spreading fear and mayhem can often do just as good a job at terrorizing the populace.

106 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 10:59:01am

re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar

I’ll agree if they were chosen because of who they are. If they were victims of circumstance, then no.

The young man was chosen because his name “sounded Jewish.”

The black man was killed for being black.

I don’t know if they had had any previous contact with either one.

107 BishopX  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:01:21am

re: #76 jamesfirecat

James, have you read American Prometheus? The US nuking Japan had much more to do with the Cold War than it did with WWII.

108 iceweasel  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:01:53am

re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar

I’ll agree if they were chosen because of who they are. If they were victims of circumstance, then no.

Yes, and I think that’s the point you were making earlier— they seem to have killed people they encountered randomly.

109 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:02:46am

re: #107 BishopX

James, have you read American Prometheus? The US nuking Japan had much more to do with the Cold War than it did with WWII.

No I haven’t I’ll look for it in a library near me online or on amazon next time I have some free spending money.

110 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:03:32am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

I mean I want to while I know I can’t be 100% objective be fair to these guys but this is where Mitt Romney lost me last night for example. He’s talking about cutting social programs, taxes, etc and one of the moderators asked him about defense. He says clear as day that he will not cut defense. Now, riddle me this, we’ve got a huge deficit and defense is the biggest part of our budget expenditures and Mitt isn’t willing at all to consider defense cuts. It’s almost like he thinks the Defense budget comes from gold chests donated to the Treasury by leprechauns and isn’t part of the budget as a whole. Oh and he comes across as a total phony when he tries to act tough. But that’s Mitt Romney’s whole problem, he is a total phony.

It was the standard giant panderer response. To hell with reality, just say whatever will supposedly get you the support and votes. In this forum that means promising to not touch defense spending while gutting social programs.

I’m sure the debate site is suffering a shortage of bamboo right now.

111 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:03:38am

Any of you ever heard of Joseph Paul Franklin? I believe he’s the man who caused Larry Flynt to be paralyzed. The guy sounds similar to these two in that he targeted Jews and Blacks whenever he could.

112 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:03:41am

re: #105 Simply Sarah

I don’t think you need to kill anyone to be a terrorist. “Only” spreading fear and mayhem can often do just as good a job at terrorizing the populace.

Ok. BTK got off on people talking about him for 13 years (last kill was 1991, he contacted the police/media in 2004) People remained scared, but was it rational to call him a terrorist after all those years?

113 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:04:21am

re: #106 EmmmieG

The young man was chosen because his name “sounded Jewish.”

The black man was killed for being black.

I don’t know if they had had any previous contact with either one.

Were they singled out and stalked? Or were they just random victims?

Tony Graziano (an Italian-American) was murdered during the Brooklyn, Crown Heights riots because he was wearing a dark suit and hat and the attackers mistakenly thought he was a Jew. So was that a race crime or just a random gang killing?

114 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:04:45am

re: #110 oaktree

It was the standard giant panderer response. To hell with reality, just say whatever will supposedly get you the support and votes. In this forum that means promising to not touch defense spending while gutting social programs.

I’m sure the debate site is suffering a shortage of bamboo right now.

It’s what Mitt does best. Pander and then pander again.

115 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:06:20am

Romney allies with anti-muslim activists for his campaign

“Mitt Romney is right to criticize his rivals for silently standing by and accepting bigotry,” said Michael Keegan, President of People For the American Way. “Now it is time for him to apply those standards to his own campaign. The truly courageous position for Romney to take would be to stand up against religious bigotry of all stripes – including the GOP’s increasingly prevalent scapegoating of American Muslims.

“Romney endorser Jay Sekulow’s American Center for Law and Justice has suggested that devout Muslims cannot become true citizens of the United States. Sekulow himself has perpetuated the debunked claim that the Constitution is under a threat from Sharia law and was a leader of the extremist backlash against the building of an Islamic community center in lower Manhattan, including overseeing the ACLJ’s lawsuit attempting to stop the community center’s construction.

“Last weekend, Mitt Romney called Sekulow a ‘treasure.’ If Romney wishes to show that he is a true champion of the American values of religious freedom and tolerance, he must apply the same standard to his own endorsers as he does to those of Rick Perry.”

116 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:06:21am

re: #112 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ok. BTK got off on people talking about him for 13 years (last kill was 1991, he contacted the police/media in 2004) People remained scared, but was it rational to call him a terrorist after all those years?

I was thinking more along the lines of bombings/arson that don’t end up killing people. Destruction of property. Threatening actions.

117 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:08:07am

re: #113 Alouette

Were they singled out and stalked? Or were they just random victims?

Tony Graziano (an Italian-American) was murdered during the Brooklyn, Crown Heights riots because he was wearing a dark suit and hat and the attackers mistakenly thought he was a Jew. So was that a race crime or just a random gang killing?

I would call it a race crime.

The fact that they were wrong doesn’t change the intent.

118 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:08:16am

re: #113 Alouette

Were they singled out and stalked? Or were they just random victims?

Tony Graziano (an Italian-American) was murdered during the Brooklyn, Crown Heights riots because he was wearing a dark suit and hat and the attackers mistakenly thought he was a Jew. So was that a race crime or just a random gang killing?

Clearly, it was a race/hate crime. Doesn’t matter if they were wrong or not, they acted because they thought they were going after a Jew and the whole concept of a hate crime is that it is based on intent.

119 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:08:32am

re: #97 CuriousLurker

I don’t think I want to look at him any more, heh. Typical NYC loon that shows up everywhere.

The nose ring is a nice touch. //

Heh, actually, I found that posted a couple of Flickr finds of him in that old thread, should anyone care.

What a weirdo.

120 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:08:59am

re: #116 Simply Sarah

I was thinking more along the lines of bombings/arson that don’t end up killing people. Destruction of property. Threatening actions.

That? Ever heard of the Earth Liberation Front? (ELF) They are a domestic terror org by the FBI. I think people did die, but not their intention.

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:10:43am

re: #112 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ok. BTK got off on people talking about him for 13 years (last kill was 1991, he contacted the police/media in 2004) People remained scared, but was it rational to call him a terrorist after all those years?

I think that’s where the ‘political’ angle comes in. People live in fear when a serial killer is active, they’re terrorized, but it’s not normally described as terrorism.

The Klan, or someone who targets Planned Parenthood clinics is sending a political message with with a clear attempt at coercion.

These guys are sending a message too, but it’s essentially, ‘We hate’.

122 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:11:06am

Full disclosure: I did finish a book about BTK yesterday. First day read 190 pages, finished yesterday (another 130 pages?). My Green River Killer book awaits.

123 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:11:32am

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that’s where the ‘political’ angle comes in. People live in fear when a serial killer is active, they’re terrorized, but it’s not normally described as terrorism.

The Klan, or someone who targets Planned Parenthood clinics is sending a political message with with a clear attempt at coercion.

These guys are sending a message too, but it’s essentially, ‘We hate’.

We hate, we’re losers, we literally have nothing better to do with our lives.

124 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:11:53am

re: #120 Cannadian Club Akbar

That? Ever heard of the Earth Liberation Front? (ELF) They are a domestic terror org by the FBI. I think people did die, but not their intention.

Sure, they’re an example. My point is: Killing is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for something to qualify as terrorism.

125 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:13:27am

re: #124 Simply Sarah

Sure, they’re an example. My point is: Killing is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for something to qualify as terrorism.

Perhaps, then, this qualifies as a race crime, but not terrorism, for lack of a clear political aim.

126 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:13:53am

re: #117 EmmmieG

I would call it a race crime.

The fact that they were wrong doesn’t change the intent.

This. It’s still for example anti gay harassment even if the kid you’re harassing isn’t actually gay. One of the most interesting documentaries I saw was a British one. The filmmaker followed a prominent BNP member, Mark Collett around and got to know him and his family and social circle. At the very end, the filmmaker lets him know that he’s Jewish and Collett just went nuts. It was fascinating and it left no doubt whatsoever that the BNP are Anti-Semites despite their claims to the contary.

127 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:14:16am

re: #113 Alouette

Were they singled out and stalked? Or were they just random victims?

Tony Graziano (an Italian-American) was murdered during the Brooklyn, Crown Heights riots because he was wearing a dark suit and hat and the attackers mistakenly thought he was a Jew. So was that a race crime or just a random gang killing?

Of course, if he was killed because he was mistaken for a Jew, it was a hate crime, since only intent matters.

128 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:14:41am

re: #124 Simply Sarah

Sure, they’re an example. My point is: Killing is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for something to qualify as terrorism.

OK. If you call in a bomb threat to a mall at Christmas, I think that is a terror threat. And can prolly be charged as terrorism. Terrorism isn’t just killing but also a way to bring down a place/person economically.

129 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:15:17am

re: #122 Cannadian Club Akbar

Full disclosure: I did finish a book about BTK yesterday. First day read 190 pages, finished yesterday (another 130 pages?). My Green River Killer book awaits.

Creepiest real-life serial killer book EVER: Serpentine by Thomas Thompson (1980).

130 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:17:21am

re: #122 Cannadian Club Akbar

Full disclosure: I did finish a book about BTK yesterday. First day read 190 pages, finished yesterday (another 130 pages?). My Green River Killer book awaits.

Ridgway is fascinating since he lasted as long as he did. I’m honestly still amazed they caught him since I remember reading about Green River for the first time when it was still unsolved.

131 sagehen  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:17:42am

re: #107 BishopX

James, have you read American Prometheus? The US nuking Japan had much more to do with the Cold War than it did with WWII.

um… not really.

It was done to end WWII. It was just icing on top that it also scared the hell out of Stalin.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:18:00am

re: #129 Alouette

Creepiest real-life serial killer book EVER: Serpentine by Thomas Thompson (1980).

I cracked the Green River book yesterday. First page is dedicated to the victims. Filled half the page. Ugg….But i’ll get your recommendation.

133 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:18:55am

re: #130 HappyWarrior

Ridgway is fascinating since he lasted as long as he did. I’m honestly still amazed they caught him since I remember reading about Green River for the first time when it was still unsolved.

BTK was caught because he didn’t know how to erase shit off of a floppy disk.

134 sagehen  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:19:59am

re: #116 Simply Sarah

I was thinking more along the lines of bombings/arson that don’t end up killing people. Destruction of property. Threatening actions.

Like Bill Ayers — his bombs were set in unoccupied spaces, nobody died (I don’t think anybody was even injured), but the chosen places (including a bathroom at the Pentagon) were definitely meant to send the message “we can get to you where you think you’re safe.”

135 SmithCommaJohn  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:20:56am

This is almost as bad as when Perry said that Buzz Aldrin invented the airplane in 1969, and flew to heaven to establish diplomatic and trade relations between America and the Almighty.

Ridiculous!

Every student of history knows that it was Neil Armstrong. You’re making us look bad, Rick!

136 BishopX  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:21:23am

re: #131 sagehen

um… not really.

It was done to end WWII. It was just icing on top that it also scared the hell out of Stalin.

I’d argue that it was done to keep Russia out of Japan (and scare Stalin) and the fact that it ended the war so favorably to the was just incing on the cake.

137 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:22:08am

re: #133 Cannadian Club Akbar

BTK was caught because he didn’t know how to erase shit off of a floppy disk.

That’s right. I believe the cops tricked him with something involving the word processor’s signature which linked back to the church he was a deacon at. Guys like Rader amaze me the most since they are able to live complete double lives. Arrogance thankfully gets the best of many of these guys.


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