Unreal: Florida Republican Introduces Bill to Bring Back Firing Squads

“If it were up to me we would just throw them off the Sunshine Skyway bridge”

WingnutsOctober 2011 • Views: 25,424

Florida Republican legislator Brad Drake thinks criminals who get the death penalty aren’t suffering enough, so he’s introduced a bill that would eliminate lethal injections and bring back firing squads. Yes, really.

A bill filed Tuesday by Rep. Brad Drake, R-Eucheeanna, would allow for executions by firing squad. HB 325 would eliminate Florida’s standard method of execution, lethal injection, and allow for executions only by electrocution or firing squad.�

He said he filed the bill after overhearing a conversation in his district this past month while U.S. Supreme Court deliberated over the fate of Manuel Valle, convicted in the 1978 murder of a Coral Gables police officer. Valle’s lawyers filed numerous appeals, the last few of which centered around the use of a drug used in lethal injections.�

In a Waffle House in DeFuniak Springs, Drake said he heard a constituent say, “‘You know, they ought to just put them in the electric chair or line them up in front of a firing squad.’” After a conversation with the person, Drake, 36, said he decided to file the bill.

“There shouldn’t be anything controversial about a .45-caliber bullet. If it were up to me we would just throw them off the Sunshine Skyway bridge and be done with it,” Drake said.

(h/t: marjoriemoon.)

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272 comments

andres Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:22:34am

At this rate, either the Democrats operatives will be out of work, or they’ll have to find a very inventive way to blow up another election.

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:22:48am

Ooo thank ye, kind sir!

Interesting Times Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:23:14am

Soft-on-crime wuss. Real Americans™ would bring this back. Think of the pay-per-view possibilities and other opportunities for free enterprise!

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:23:33am

Btw, I was contemplating between that bridge quote and the humane/inhumane quote. Thanks for putting that one up!

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:23:50am

Thank god they removed the mind control drug fluoride from the water…

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:24:00am

People do actually live after jumping off of the Skyway.
[Link: www.wtsp.com…]

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:24:39am

Throwing them off the bridge? Shit let’s go a step further and tie them up and put them in the middle of the bay. Seriously, what the fuck? I understand wanting justice and thinking criminals should be punished but the sick joy this guy seems to get is just that sick.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:25:51am

GOP Pigs love death and revenge.

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:26:05am

If it were up to me we would just throw them off the Sunshine Skyway bridge and be done with it,

Maybe they can get some instructors from Hamas to show them how its done.

jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:26:36am

Guess Florida felt it didn’t have enough of these to go around…

jaunte Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:27:02am

re: #8 Amory Blaine

It’s really not about deterrence.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:27:57am

Skyway jumpers.

Charleston Chew Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:28:03am

Republican problem solving:

1. Try God. Is it solved? Y/N
2. If N try guns. Is it solved? Y/N
3. If N go to 1.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:28:05am

Jobs, jobs, jobs, and jobs.

9_9

anonymous gun expert Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:28:22am

When did the Republican party and The Onion merge?

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:28:34am

re: #14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Jobs, jobs, jobs, and jobs.

9_9

Like a fucking lazer.

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:28:46am

re: #6 Cannadian Club Akbar

People do actually live after jumping off of the Skyway.
[Link: www.wtsp.com…]

Well that’s the whole thing now, isn’t it.

He doesn’t just want them to die. He wants them a die an excruciating, painful death. And if you don’t actually die, all the better. They should lay there and suffer a bit first.

NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:29:13am

Some states give choices to the inmates themselves…

Methods of Execution

In Indiana prior to 1913, all executions were by hanging. From 1913 through 1994, all executions were by electric chair. Since 1995, all executions have been by lethal injection. Current execution procedure is found at Indiana Code 35-38-6 and requires that the lethal injection execution take place inside the walls of the Indiana State Prison at Michigan City before sunrise.

In the 37 states and federal government that currently have death penalty statutes, five different methods of execution are prescribed: Lethal Injection, Electrocution, Lethal Gas, Firing Squad, and Hanging. The vast majority of jurisdictions provide for execution by lethal injection. 20 jurisdictions provide for alternative methods of execution, contingent upon the choice of the inmate, the date of the execution or sentence, or the possibility of the method being held unconstitutional. Only one state does not have lethal injection as a primary or optional method of execution. Nebraska is the only state that provides for electrocution as the sole method of execution. No states provide for Lethal Gas, Hanging, or Firing Squad as the sole method of execution.

In 2007 New Jersey became the first state to repeal its death penalty laws since it was reinstated in the United States in 1976. In 2008 the Nebraska Supreme Court ruled that the use of the electric chair as a method of execution violates the Nebraska Constitution. With no alternative methods of execution on the books, Nebraska is practically without a death penalty.

lawhawk Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:29:19am

Every state other than Utah has either banned capital punishment or has limited it to lethal injection. Ol’ Sparky got the neutralized. The firing squad was shot down in flames, and the lethal injection had its plug pulled. Even Utah has ended use of the firing squad on new capital crimes - those already on death row and convicted under the old law would potentially be able to choose death by firing squad.

Oklahoma is the only state where firing squad is still viable (as a secondary option).

Yet, this Florida politician want to bring back the firing squad? Even if you think that the death penalty is viable, I think the courts would find this potentially cruel and unusual punishment and strike it down. It has no additional value (shock value - yes, value to society at large? minimal or negative).

And it’s interesting to note that crime rates have dropped even though the use of firing squads has declined - so there’s not likely a benefit to be gained from having the practice.

BTW, the issue about drugs used during lethal injections is a complicated one particularly since of late there’s been a shortage of one of the drugs and that can complicate matters and alternatives have to be approved (a lengthy process apparently).

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:29:56am

re: #17 marjoriemoon

Well that’s the whole thing now, isn’t it.

He doesn’t just want them to die. He wants them a die an excruciating, painful death. And if you don’t actually die, all the better. They should lay there and suffer a bit first.

It’s a medieval way of looking at the world if you ask me.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:30:40am

re: #19 lawhawk

He must feel the constituents that elected him would approve.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:30:46am

I would favor it if the firing squad were made up of the judge and the members of the sentencing jury. If you’re not willing to kill the condemned with your own hands, don’t vote for it.

HoosierHoops Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:31:22am

My Blackberry stopped working today.. Thank you Rim
I’d like to put my BB in front of a firing squad at dawn…It’s youtube worthy

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:31:43am

re: #19 lawhawk

Every state other than Utah has either banned capital punishment or has limited it to lethal injection. Ol’ Sparky got the neutralized. The firing squad was shot down in flames, and the lethal injection had its plug pulled. Even Utah has ended use of the firing squad on new capital crimes - those already on death row and convicted under the old law would potentially be able to choose death by firing squad.

Oklahoma is the only state where firing squad is still viable (as a secondary option).

Yet, this Florida politician want to bring back the firing squad? Even if you think that the death penalty is viable, I think the courts would find this potentially cruel and unusual punishment and strike it down. It has no additional value (shock value - yes, value to society at large? minimal or negative).

And it’s interesting to note that crime rates have dropped even though the use of firing squads has declined - so there’s not likely a benefit to be gained from having the practice.

BTW, the issue about drugs used during lethal injections is a complicated one particularly since of late there’s been a shortage of one of the drugs and that can complicate matters and alternatives have to be approved (a lengthy process apparently).

Italy stopped making a key drug.
[Link: online.wsj.com…]

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:32:32am

re: #23 HoosierHoops

My Blackberry stopped working today.. Thank you Rim
I’d like to put my BB in front of a firing squad at dawn…It’s youtube worthy

Youtube Video

Vicious Babushka Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:33:18am

The most humane method of execution is the guillotine. But it is messy.

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:33:27am

What a blood thirsty son of a bitch.

celticdragon Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:34:51am

Real conservatives should be for drwning and quatering or burning criminals at the stake. If it was good enough for Torquemada, it’s good enough for me!

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:35:05am

This is interesting that I didn’t see (I quoted a diff article).

On the other side of the spectrum in the Florida House is Rep. Michelle Rehwinkel-Vasilinda, D-Tallahassee, who filed HB 4051 last month to eliminate the death penalty completely in the state. She hopes to eliminate costs related to death penalty cases and apply that money to hiring more police officers and law enforcement, and is wary of the lawsuits Drake’s bill could spark.

Here’s the thing. A lot of people are against the death penalty because of moral reasons, while others are against it because of the costs (or both). Death row inmates usually sit on death row about 20-25 years with appeals every 7 years or so. It’s costly for the state that has to make a case and hire attorneys. Life imprisonment without parole is much more economical.

So whether your argument against the death penalty is economics or morals, it’s a win-win for both.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:37:05am

I think the Duke of Milan used to let Leonardo da Vinci use condemned prisoners as pilots in his flying machine attempts.

Or maybe that’s just an historical urban legend.

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:37:16am

When I was in Prague a few years back. I visited a museum of torture. Just brutal stuff from all over Europe there. It made me grateful that I didn’t live back then. I think some people get too bloodthirsty. I understand family members feeling that way but people like this guy really rub me the wrong way. It’s like they get their kicks out of seeing someone brutally killed and I don’t think that’s real justice. But if you ask me, it’s impossible to have true justice for families of murder victims anyhow.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:37:50am

re: #29 marjoriemoon

Too many innocent people have been exonerated. As long as bigots of this country sit on juries and elect leaders that want to hang inmates from their beloved bridges, fuck no.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:38:26am

re: #26 Alouette

The most humane method of execution is the guillotine. But it is messy.

In the 1880s the state of New York became dissatisfied with the standard method of the time, hanging. There had been some highly publicized episodes of botched hangings resulting in strangulation and even decapitation. The governor appointed a commission to look for a new method. The guillotine was one of the methods they seriously considered. The commissioners concluded that it was quick, painless, and reliable; but just too gruesome for late Victorian sensibilities. They settled on the newly invented electric chair, which added its own share of gruesomely botched executions before it was finally unplugged.

celticdragon Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:38:36am

The next Florida propasal for dealing with fornicating women who had an abortion…

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:38:36am

Meh, it’s the Blood Eagle or nothing

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:38:39am

This is not enough dare I say.

We need to bring back the pit and the pendulum!

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:38:51am

re: #32 Amory Blaine

Too many innocent people have been exonerated. As long as bigots of this country sit on juries and elect leaders that want to hang inmates from their beloved bridges, fuck no.

I think you mean, perhaps, that too many condemned people have been found to be innocent and exonerated?

All innocent people should be exonerated; that’s justice.

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:39:47am

re: #22 Shiplord Kirel

I would favor it if the firing squad were made up of the judge and the members of the sentencing jury. If you’re not willing to kill the condemned with your own hands, don’t vote for it.

And there’s always the poor schmuck who has to clean up the bloody mess of brains or guts sprayed everywhere? Screw that.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:39:58am

He lured the Ohio mother and her two daughters onto his boat. Then he bound and gagged them. Stripped them below the waist. Sexually assaulted them. Tied concrete blocks to their necks.

Then, one by one, Oba Chandler threw Joan Rogers and her teen daughters Michelle and Christe into Tampa Bay.
…
“What was so atrocious in this is that, in all likelihood two of the three watched the first one die,” said Chief Assistant State Attorney Bruce Bartlett, who prosecuted Chandler. “And one of the three watched the other two die.
…
A year later, still defiant, Chandler spoke to a Times reporter from prison. He said his last words would be: “Kiss my rosy red ass!”

[Link: www.tampabay.com…]

I posted this the other morning.

Idle Drifter Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:40:14am

Youtube Video

If I had to die I’d request Nitrogen Asphyxiation. Go stupid and don’t care, go to sleep, and then finally expire. I really wouldn’t want some poor bastard trying to shoot me. Hate to be all shot up but not include death’s sweet kiss good night.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:40:32am

re: #37 EmmmieG

Yes that’s what I meant. People on death row have been found innocent after conviction.

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:40:41am

re: #35 Dreggas

Meh, it’s the Blood Eagle or nothing

Well, aren’t we (humans) just creatively barbaric???

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:40:41am

re: #38 marjoriemoon

And there’s always the poor schmuck who has to clean up the bloody mess of brains or guts sprayed everywhere? Screw that.

The judge and jury could have that job too.

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:41:06am

re: #28 celticdragon

lol You can’t talk em outa anything!

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:41:39am

re: #38 marjoriemoon

And there’s always the poor schmuck who has to clean up the bloody mess of brains or guts sprayed everywhere? Screw that.

A job’s a job.

lawhawk Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:42:21am

re: #44 marjoriemoon

It’s what you shouldn’t do but you do anyways.

NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:42:28am

re: #38 marjoriemoon

And there’s always the poor schmuck who has to clean up the bloody mess of brains or guts sprayed everywhere? Screw that.

Shovel-Ready job?

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:43:06am

re: #42 Varek Raith

Well, aren’t we (humans) just creatively barbaric???

No two ways about it, we’ve come up with some rather nasty and inventive ways of killing one another.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:43:21am

A lot of gallows humor here today.

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:43:44am

I wish it were unreal.

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:44:25am

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe they can get some instructors from Hamas to show them how its done.

Wouldn’t work. The liberals would slow the process by requiring the filing of EPA impact assessments on how the bay waters would be affected.
/

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:45:29am

Killing people isn’t funny, but making fun of brain-dead wussies who casually advocate it sure is.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:45:34am

re: #51 oaktree

A new definition of red tide.

Vicious Babushka Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:46:18am

re: #33 Shiplord Kirel

In the 1880s the state of New York became dissatisfied with the standard method of the time, hanging. There had been some highly publicized episodes of botched hangings resulting in strangulation and even decapitation. The governor appointed a commission to look for a new method. The guillotine was one of the methods they seriously considered. The commissioners concluded that it was quick, painless, and reliable; but just too gruesome for late Victorian sensibilities. They settled on the newly invented electric chair, which added its own share of gruesomely botched executions before it was finally unplugged.

The guillotine was used in Europe up until, holy shit, 1977!

SmithCommaJohn Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:46:28am

re: #3 publicityStunted

I have to admit, that article was morbidly fascinating.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:46:34am

re: #52 Shiplord Kirel

Killing people isn’t funny, but making fun of brain-dead wussies who casually advocate it sure is.

Killing people isn’t fun, but people who take it up as a private hobby should be put where they can never hurt us again.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:47:09am

re: #54 Alouette

The guillotine was used in Europe up until, holy shit, 1977!

I’m thinking of concealed carry.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:47:48am

re: #36 Gus 802

//

Meh. There’s a whole Saw movie series to draw inspiration from.

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:47:52am

re: #32 Amory Blaine

Too many innocent people have been exonerated. As long as bigots of this country sit on juries and elect leaders that want to hang inmates from their beloved bridges, fuck no.

Indeed and that’s why death row inmates sit on death row so long.

After the ability to unlock DNA, almost 200 prisoners were exonerated and yet some people are still executed despite lack of DNA. Troy Davis as an example.

Also, these people like Drake don’t really care about that. They believe they probably deserve it anyway. It’s their karma or some such.

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:48:31am

re: #21 Amory Blaine

He must feel the constituents that elected him would approve.

It’s just grandstanding: he knows they won’t approve, but it will raise his standing in his home district.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:49:29am

If the guillotine really is painless, I would choose that. I would just ask to be knocked out first, as the brain can live past decapitation.

I’ve also thought that freezing to death sounds okay; you just kind of go to sleep and don’t wake up again.

Being shot would be brutal. Wouldn’t care for the electric chair. Lethal injection has as its primary advantage that the rest of us don’t have to deal with the gore.

Actually, I think I’ll just choose to live a quiet, peaceful life.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:49:51am

re: #60 ralphieboy

It’s just grandstanding: he knows they won’t approve, but it will raise his standing in his home district.

If it improves his standing in his district, how is that not approval?

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:50:38am

re: #45 Amory Blaine

A job’s a job.

Well yea, but…

I dated an EMT who quit to become a restaurant manager. First there were the gun suicides, then an incident involving a 3 month old baby and that was it for him.

I’m guessing the Guy Who Cleans Up the Brains is not a job one retires from.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:51:41am

re: #61 EmmmieG

If the guillotine really is painless, I would choose that. I would just ask to be knocked out first, as the brain can live past decapitation.

I’ve also thought that freezing to death sounds okay; you just kind of go to sleep and don’t wake up again.

Being shot would be brutal. Wouldn’t care for the electric chair. Lethal injection has as its primary advantage that the rest of us don’t have to deal with the gore.

Actually, I think I’ll just choose to live a quiet, peaceful life.

Hypothermia is a painful way to die. Firing squad is quick. Old Sparky would suck. Lethal injection is for bitches and the gas chamber would prolly suck. But I’m with you.:)

celticdragon Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:53:02am

re: #48 Dreggas

No two ways about it, we’ve come up with some rather nasty and inventive ways of killing one another.

Some real nasty ones here.
Check out Scaphism(from Persia), or being put in the Brass Bull (Ancient Greece).

uncah91 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:53:36am

I think it’s interesting that there is an idea that because the firing squad or the guillotine cause external, observable violence on the condemned, that it is less “humane” than lethal injection.

It strike me that lethal injection has just as many possibilities for error, in fact more opportunities, than a firing squad. People on a firing squad know how to fire weapons and have experience with that. There is 5 point redundancy. Death occurs within seconds.

Not so much with lethal injection. But it looks nicer.

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:53:53am

re: #65 celticdragon

Some real nasty ones here.
Check out Scaphism(from Persia), or being put in the Bass Bull (Ancient Greece).

I suspect that before too long we’ll be tossing people out airlocks.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:55:02am

bbiab…

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:56:22am

re: #66 uncah91

I think it’s interesting that there is an idea that because the firing squad or the guillotine cause external, observable violence on the condemned, that it is less “humane” than lethal injection.

It strike me that lethal injection has just as many possibilities for error, in fact more opportunities, than a firing squad. People carrying a firing squad know how to fire weapons and have experience with that. There is 5 point redundancy. Death occurs within seconds.

Not so much with lethal injection. But it looks nicer.

Up until Georgia decides to save costs on professional firing squad members and starts using partially trained correctional service inmates.
//

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:57:24am

re: #69 oaktree

Up until Georgia decides to save costs on professional firing squad members and starts using partially trained correctional service inmates.
//

you beat me to that one…

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:57:52am

Nobody was ever executed for trying to pass off store-bought brownies as homemade at a PTA function.

Not that I have ever done that.

I’ve never been a PTA member.

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 11:58:58am

re: #71 EmmmieG

Feeling guilty? Like the walls are closing in?

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:00:51pm

Herman Cain’s economic adviser is not an economist

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com…]

Locker Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:01:01pm

Brad Drake can play Damon Killian in an updated version of The Running Man. Richard Dawson surely can’t be up for it at like 78.

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:01:29pm

re: #71 EmmmieG

Nobody was ever executed for trying to pass off store-bought brownies as homemade at a PTA function.

Not that I have ever done that.

I’ve never been a PTA member.

There was a similar bit in a British novel “I Don’t Know How She Does It” about an overstressed carreer mom who was supposed to bring mince pies to a school function.

Having no time to bake them, she simply takes the store bought ones, smacks them with a rolling pin to make them look a bit less store-bought and sprinkles some powdered sugar on them…

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:04:08pm

re: #67 Varek Raith

I suspect that before too long we’ll be tossing people out airlocks.

If workable time travel or teleportation ever got worked out I suspect that use of it to make a penal colony (especially if it was one-way) would end up among the first implementations.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:04:11pm

Nobody has ever been executed for pairing up two socks that really weren’t a match.

Nobody has ever been executed for forgetting to buy ketchup at the store.

Nobody has ever been executed for putting frosting on the brownies when she knows her husband does not like frosting.

Nobody has ever been executed for pretending she saw the soccer goal when she was really talking to her friend.

Just giving all the advantages of living a really, really boring life.

kirkspencer Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:05:32pm

re: #66 uncah91

I think it’s interesting that there is an idea that because the firing squad or the guillotine cause external, observable violence on the condemned, that it is less “humane” than lethal injection.

It strike me that lethal injection has just as many possibilities for error, in fact more opportunities, than a firing squad. People on a firing squad know how to fire weapons and have experience with that. There is 5 point redundancy. Death occurs within seconds.

Not so much with lethal injection. But it looks nicer.

The 5 point redundancy failed frequently. People got shot center mass, then took some time to actually die.

Look, my problem with the death penalty is that we make mistakes. We have executed people who turned out to be innocent. There is no way to correct that mistake once they’re dead.

The choice is to make innocent suffer to ensure no guilty goes unpunished, or to allow some guilty to escape punishment to ensure no innocent suffers erroneously. In the end, it is that simple. Exaggerating both ends:
Are you willing to execute the occasional innocent child to make sure you get everyone? Are you willing to let the occasional mass murderer go free to ensure no innocent child is executed? Those are the absurdist extensions of both positions, yet they demonstrate the point.

Put them in prison forever. Yes, the whole imprisonment/rehabilitation issue needs discussion as well, but if it’s a choice of life imprisonment with reviews to ensure we find the wrongfully incarcerated or executing only to discover a year later that the DNA doesn’t match, I know where I stand.

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:07:08pm

A lone voice or reason (which should be shouted down accordingly)
Should liberals support Occupy Wall Street?

the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. Just because liberals are frustrated with Wall Street does not mean that we should automatically find common cause with a group of people who are protesting Wall Street. Indeed, one of the first obligations of liberalism is skepticism—of governments, of arguments, and of movements. And so it is important to look at what Occupy Wall Street actually believes and then to ask two, related questions: Is their rhetoric liberal, or at least a close cousin of liberalism? And is this movement helpful to the achievement of liberal aims?

kirkspencer Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:12:13pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

A lone voice or reason (which should be shouted down accordingly)
Should liberals support Occupy Wall Street?

What works? What is it that brings change from business as usual?

Historically, the common link is passion. A mighty yawp that this, what is, is wrong. Not all passion goes on to change things. But the steady push without passion to sustain it consistently dies without accomplishment.

I do not think OWP itself will succeed. I do, however, think it’s displayed the passion that is a prerequisite to change. DFH, undesirable hangers-on and fellow travelers, and all.

Hawaii69 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:14:29pm

.45 caliber bullets? Is he introducing firing squads that use pistols?

Considering what a clusterfuck lethal injection turns out to be half the
time, you’re probably better off takin 5 or 6 high caliber rounds to the
heart. Rifle rounds, that is, Brad….

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:16:13pm

Matt Barber Uncovers The “Glee” Conspiracy

On tomorrow’s installment of Liberty Counsel’s “Faith and Freedom” radio program, already posted on YouTube, Mat Staver and Matt Barber discuss the brief the organization has filed asking the Supreme Court to uphold the FCC’s decency standards.

Maintaining these standards is important, explained Barber, because there is a conspiracy afoot to use the media to indoctrinate/desensitize children to “sexually immoral behaviors” through television programs like “Glee”:

Firing squads = Good
Singing pop songs on TV = bad

BishopX Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:16:41pm

re: #81 Hawaii69

Heck, while we’re at it we might as well get an old german 88 and have the victim stand against a yard thick plate of steel. That would be pretty instantaneous.

NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:17:33pm

OWS has found a new person to go after:

(NEWSER) – The Occupy Wall Street protesters have, obviously, been focusing on Wall Street bankers. In the Huffington Post, Elizabeth Weill-Greenberg turns her attention to a slightly more surprising target: Kim Kardashian. In an open letter to the reality TV star, Weill-Greenberg notes that thousands of people are protesting :because… well, there’s no delicate way to say this, but… because of you, Kim.” Specifically, Kardashian’s $75,000 earrings. Kardashian, Weill-Greenberg explains, earned $65 million in 2010 while millions of other Americans struggled to find work, a living wage, and benefits.

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:18:05pm

re: #66 uncah91

I think it’s interesting that there is an idea that because the firing squad or the guillotine cause external, observable violence on the condemned, that it is less “humane” than lethal injection.

It strike me that lethal injection has just as many possibilities for error, in fact more opportunities, than a firing squad. People on a firing squad know how to fire weapons and have experience with that. There is 5 point redundancy. Death occurs within seconds.

Not so much with lethal injection. But it looks nicer.

Well, that’s part of the idea, really. Many changes in methods of execution boil down to making the act come off as less barbaric and disturbing to those watching or hearing about it, rather than any concern about potential suffering of the person being executed.

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:19:00pm

re: #61 EmmmieG

If the guillotine really is painless, I would choose that. I would just ask to be knocked out first, as the brain can live past decapitation.

I’ve also thought that freezing to death sounds okay; you just kind of go to sleep and don’t wake up again.

Being shot would be brutal. Wouldn’t care for the electric chair. Lethal injection has as its primary advantage that the rest of us don’t have to deal with the gore.

Actually, I think I’ll just choose to live a quiet, peaceful life.

As I recall, the guillotine didn’t work so well. It often got stuck half way through or didn’t catch the person in the neck at all, but the back of the head.

Like hanging. RARELY people die like you see in the movies. The ropes often didn’t fit properly were either too tight and snapped the head off, but usually not tight enough so you’d just hang there gasping for air and slowly suffocate. Could take days.

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:19:12pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Matt Barber Uncovers The “Glee” Conspiracy

Firing squads = Good
Singing pop songs on TV = bad

Hahaha. Haven’t they also claimed Glee is turning kids gay? That’s news to my ten year old kid brother who is becoming quite the little lady’s man.

Hawaii69 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:19:22pm

re: #83 BishopX

Heck, while we’re at it we might as well get an old german 88 and have the victim stand against a yard thick plate of steel. That would be pretty instantaneous.

THEN I would be interested in televised executions.

But, instead of a yard thick plate of steel, I suggest a 2 yard thick
wall of ripe watermelons….

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:19:32pm

They could simply loop the GOP debates and wait for the person to die of boredom.

lostlakehiker Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:19:32pm

re: #56 EmmmieG

Killing people isn’t fun, but people who take it up as a private hobby should be put where they can never hurt us again.

That place is six feet under. There is no other way to make sure of it. Prisoners do kill guards and fellow inmates from time to time.

NJDhockeyfan Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:20:03pm

Occupy Wall Street? Occupy Starfleet!

Youtube Video

Hawaii69 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:21:51pm

re: #89 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They could simply loop the GOP debates and wait for the person to die of boredom.

Sick bastard…

Vicious Babushka Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:22:20pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

OWS has found a new person to go after:

Kim still makes less than the $100 million max that Roseanne would allow people to keep before she decapitates them.

kirkspencer Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:22:29pm

re: #90 lostlakehiker

That place is six feet under. There is no other way to make sure of it. Prisoners do kill guards and fellow inmates from time to time.

So what should happen to the people involved if someone is wrongfully executed — if DNA (or some other test) turns out to show the person wasn’t guilty?

What recompense to the dead man do you propose?

Hawaii69 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:23:31pm

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

Occupy Sesame Street…

[Link: www.tauntr.com…]

webevintage Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:23:46pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Matt Barber Uncovers The “Glee” Conspiracy

Firing squads = Good
Singing pop songs on TV = bad

Not only to they sing pop shows, but there is also a whole lotta SHOW TUNES!!!11!!!!

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:24:47pm

re: #96 webevintage

Not only to they sing pop shows, but there is also a whole lotta SHOW TUNES!!!11!!!

TEH GHEY!! IT BURNS!!!

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:25:36pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

OWS has found a new person to go after:

Interesting article…
A Letter to Kim Kardashian: Why We Occupy
Complaints about what’s on cable TV (which I don’t watch because I can’t afford it), complaints about items sold at megamart stores (which I don’t shop at), complaints about rich movie stars (whose movies I don’t watch) and musicians (whose music I don’t buy). I’m doing more to hurt these people than the idiots from OWS because I’m not spending my money on their crap.

engineer cat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:25:58pm

i still haven’t gotten over the story of the duke who got rid of the man who slept with his wife by submerging him upside down in the cesspool

i’ll take getting drawn and quartered over that any day…

100

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:27:09pm

OWS gets another celebrity endorsement…
Iran: Wall Street protests to topple capitalism
Good luck with that.

101

Hawaii69 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:27:56pm

re: #99 engineer dog

i still haven’t gotten over the story of the duke who got rid of the man who slept with his wife by submerging him upside down in the cesspool

i’ll take getting drawn and quartered over that any day…

That was a common torture under Pinochet…..nearly drowning people
in barrels of shit….

102

theheat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:28:23pm

Fuck it, let’s broadcast executions on TV, get sponsors, and make it a real sport for Real Americans™ like… The Running Man. They could even draw straws from the Value Voters roster to see which rightwing nutjob gets to give the Guilty (and soon to be gloriously maimed) their sendoff speech. This would rake in millions in pay-per-views.

It’s all about job creation.

103

lawhawk Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:28:38pm

re: #93 Alouette

$100 million max? Even Warren would get under that cap - AGI of $63 million? Or is it aggregate (lifetime $100 million) because if that’s the case, then I’ve got a Sandman for Roseanne. Because it’s time for Carousel.

104

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:28:49pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

OWS gets another celebrity endorsement…
Iran: Wall Street protests to topple capitalism
Good luck with that.

Iran’s belief that the world is deeply interested in their pronouncements on various things that catch their eye never fails to crack me up. It’s like a nation with a Facebook page.

105

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:28:49pm

Here we go again.

106

uncah91 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:29:12pm

re: #78 kirkspencer

The 5 point redundancy failed frequently. People got shot center mass, then took some time to actually die.

Look, my problem with the death penalty is that we make mistakes. We have executed people who turned out to be innocent. There is no way to correct that mistake once they’re dead.

The choice is to make innocent suffer to ensure no guilty goes unpunished, or to allow some guilty to escape punishment to ensure no innocent suffers erroneously. In the end, it is that simple. Exaggerating both ends:
Are you willing to execute the occasional innocent child to make sure you get everyone? Are you willing to let the occasional mass murderer go free to ensure no innocent child is executed? Those are the absurdist extensions of both positions, yet they demonstrate the point.

Put them in prison forever. Yes, the whole imprisonment/rehabilitation issue needs discussion as well, but if it’s a choice of life imprisonment with reviews to ensure we find the wrongfully incarcerated or executing only to discover a year later that the DNA doesn’t match, I know where I stand.

Oh, I completely agree. We know that human endeavors are by no means error free, so the death penalty simple amounts to (at some point) state sanctioned murder.

But that doesn’t change the fact that “sanitized” executions aren’t really less gruesome than un-sanitized ones. It similar to ridiculous argument that hunters are cruel because they don’t get there meat in a store…

107

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:29:35pm

re: #99 engineer dog

i still haven’t gotten over the story of the duke who got rid of the man who slept with his wife by submerging him upside down in the cesspool

i’ll take getting drawn and quartered over that any day…

Cask of Amontillado style is also a hell of a way to go.

“FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MONTRESOR!”

“Yes,” I said, “for the love of God!”

108

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:29:46pm

re: #105 Gus 802

Here we go again.

THE COMMIES SUPPORTED OBAMA!!!!
:P

109

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:30:51pm

re: #105 Gus 802

Here we go again.

On our own?

110

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:31:17pm

re: #66 uncah91

I think it’s interesting that there is an idea that because the firing squad or the guillotine cause external, observable violence on the condemned, that it is less “humane” than lethal injection.

It strike me that lethal injection has just as many possibilities for error, in fact more opportunities, than a firing squad. People carrying a firing squad know how to fire weapons and have experience with that. There is 5 point redundancy. Death occurs within seconds.

Not so much with lethal injection. But it looks nicer.

As I understand it, and correct me if I’m wrong, the problem with lethal injection is collapsing veins or not inserting the needle correctly. The inmate “suffers” in the sense he’s laying there, knowing he’s going to die, but it isn’t happening so I suspect that’s more mentally torturous, not physically.

Firing squads are much different. Sometimes only 1 of the men (can be more than 5) has a bullet or 1 man of the group has a blank - none of the executioners knows which. They aim at the torso not the head. Death can be instant or not.

111

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:31:33pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

On our own?

Listening to that might prove more interesting.

112

Hawaii69 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:31:44pm

re: #101 Hawaii69

That was a common torture under Pinochet…nearly drowning people in barrels of shit…

It’s also a common torture in the United States now, especially during an election year…

113

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:32:22pm

re: #106 uncah91

Oh, I completely agree. We know that human endeavors are by no means error free, so the death penalty simple amounts to (at some point) state sanctioned murder.

But that doesn’t change the fact that “sanitized” executions aren’t really less gruesome than un-sanitized ones. It similar to ridiculous argument that hunters are cruel because they don’t get there meat in a store…

They’re less visually gruesome, which is important to keeping up support for capital punishment. If we executed people by smashing their heads in with rocks, it might just make at least a few people somewhat uncomfortable with the whole idea. Or not. Maybe I’m reading things wrong and it would increase support, since people can be weird like that.

114

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:32:42pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

A lone voice or reason (which should be shouted down accordingly)
Should liberals support Occupy Wall Street?

I’d look at just one of their two questions:

And is this movement helpful to the achievement of liberal aims?

If this hurts Obama’s chances of reelection, I’m against it because the alternative would be a disaster. And if the OWS people throw in with the End the Fed people, I’m against it, because they are destructive nuts, not reformers.

I don’t know for sure if either of those two is the case, but that’s what I’m watching for.

115

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:33:00pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Listening to that might prove more interesting.

I’m just going to loop the Tawny Kitaen parts if its all the same to you.

116

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:33:17pm

re: #102 theheat

Fuck it, let’s broadcast executions on TV, get sponsors, and make it a real sport for Real Americans™ like… The Running Man. They could even draw straws from the Value Voters roster to see which rightwing nutjob gets to give the Guilty (and soon to be gloriously maimed) their sendoff speech. This would rake in millions in pay-per-views.

Cool. Why stop there? I’m thinking lions, arenas, tearing bodies from limb to limb.

117

lawhawk Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:33:49pm

re: #102 theheat

Man, you’re horning in on one of George Carlin’s funniest and most cutting bits - State Prisons.

Youtube Video

118

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:33:56pm

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cask of Amontillado style is also a hell of a way to go.

“FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MONTRESOR!”

“Yes,” I said, “for the love of God!”

One of my students made an interesting argument in class—using “Criminal Minds” to back him up—that Montresor is a serial killer, and this is not the first time he’s done this number.

119

uncah91 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:36:46pm

re: #110 marjoriemoon

As I understand it, and correct me if I’m wrong, the problem with lethal injection is collapsing veins or not inserting the needle correctly. The inmate “suffers” in the sense he’s laying there, knowing he’s going to die, but it isn’t happening so I suspect that’s more mentally torturous, not physically.

Firing squads are much different. Sometimes only 1 of the men (can be more than 5) has a bullet or 1 man of the group has a blank - none of the executioners knows which. They aim at the torso not the head. Death can be instant or not.

There’s also the issue of whether the sedative actually works. It’s hard to tell since they then give a drug that paralyzes you. Potentially you are paralyzed but not sedated and then suffer an excruciating death from the drug that stops your heart.

Not likely, but I’d take 5 laser sighted, high speed rifle rounds and to a marked target on my chest over that possibility.

120

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:37:44pm

re: #114 wrenchwench

I’d look at just one of their two questions:

If this hurts Obama’s chances of reelection, I’m against it because the alternative would be a disaster. And if the OWS people throw in with the End the Fed people, I’m against it, because they are destructive nuts, not reformers.

I don’t know for sure if either of those two is the case, but that’s what I’m watching for.

If this goes away soon it’ll be forgotten by election day. they aren’t going to get rid of the nuts and radicals because it’s their movement. They are the organizers, Marxists, anarchists, socialists, etc. If the movement grows and creates more civil unrest it will certainly hurt Obama.

121

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:38:19pm

Damn. Read the comments about Hitchens at this page: Hitchens Not Doing Well.

Right wing religious scum.

122

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:39:41pm

Too bad we don’t have an ignore button.

123

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:40:04pm

re: #114 wrenchwench

P.S.

I find the idea of large groups operating under consensus ridiculous. Even the commune of 20 or 25 people that my brother lived with for 20 years decided not to operate under consensus. Much to my brother’s disappointment.

124

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:40:23pm

re: #119 uncah91

There’s also the issue of whether the sedative actually works. It’s hard to tell since they then give a drug that paralyzes you. Potentially you are paralyzed but not sedated and then suffer an excruciating death from the drug that stops your heart..

That’s my understanding, as well. That’s why they have three drugs, one to knock you out, one to paralyze you and then the potassium chloride to cause cardiac arrest. Overall, not the most pleasant sounding thing.

125

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:40:50pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Too bad we don’t have an ignore button.

It’s called the scroll wheel. You have to operate it yourself.

126

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:41:33pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Too bad we don’t have an ignore button.

We do, its called a down arrow.

127

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:42:25pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

It’s called the scroll wheel. You have to operate it yourself, you lazy hippie!

FTFY
//

128

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:43:48pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

It’s called the scroll wheel. You have to operate it yourself.

re: #126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We do, its called a down arrow.

OK. Thanks.

129

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:44:08pm

re: #123 wrenchwench

P.S.

I find the idea of large groups operating under consensus ridiculous. Even the commune of 20 or 25 people that my brother lived with for 20 years decided not to operate under consensus. Much to my brother’s disappointment.

So the consensus was not to operate via consensus?

130

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:45:17pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So the consensus was not to operate via consensus?

the consensus was not to operate via consensus
/Wiggles hands

131

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:45:19pm

I like Gus, and I like Killgore, and I like debate and discussion. I don’t like it when people snipe and snark at each other, but I have a high tolerance for it.

I have three brothers and three sisters.

132

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:46:00pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Damn. Read the comments about Hitchens at this page: Hitchens Not Doing Well.

Right wing religious scum.

Seriously.

He will soon find out how wrong he is and it will be to late for him, God does not send anyone to hell, they send themselves.

So much for free will.
You can worship me and be in paradise.
Or you can choose not to and suffer for all eternity in a nightmarish realm.
Fucking idiots.

133

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:46:07pm

re: #124 Simply Sarah

That’s my understanding, as well. That’s why they have three drugs, one to knock you out, one to paralyze you and then the potassium chloride to cause cardiac arrest. Overall, not the most pleasant sounding thing.

I choose to die in combat versus a swarm of genetic mutants created by crossing piranha and chihuahua DNA

134

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:46:18pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

my wife watches that show and i wouldn’t be surprised if it did have something to do with it. Kim Kardashian has contrbuted nothing to this society other than being a moron with a TV show which allows people to dream of being like “her”. Her, Paris Hilton and the rest of the twits of L.A. are pathetic IMO.

135

theheat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:46:23pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Hitchens will go out on his own terms. And the world will be a little smaller place when he does.

136

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:46:59pm

re: #119 uncah91

There’s also the issue of whether the sedative actually works. It’s hard to tell since they then give a drug that paralyzes you. Potentially you are paralyzed but not sedated and then suffer an excruciating death from the drug that stops your heart.

Not likely, but I’d take 5 laser sighted, high speed rifle rounds and to a marked target on my chest over that possibility.

Isn’t this a terribly morbid conversation. I’ll just take none!

So basically the lethal injection is like a heart attack? If you figure there has to be SOME pain, that doesn’t seem to be the worst, if it does indeed stop the heart fairly quickly. But if the marksman is not having a good day, it could miss the heart completely and you bleed to death.

137

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:47:23pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So the consensus was not to operate via consensus?

With at least one abstention.

I don’t know whether this is irony or not, but the location was still East Germany when they started, and they operated democratically.

138

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:47:34pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Too bad we don’t have an ignore button.

That is what GAZE is for.

139

kirkspencer Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:48:41pm

re: #119 uncah91

There’s also the issue of whether the sedative actually works. It’s hard to tell since they then give a drug that paralyzes you. Potentially you are paralyzed but not sedated and then suffer an excruciating death from the drug that stops your heart.

Not likely, but I’d take 5 laser sighted, high speed rifle rounds and to a marked target on my chest over that possibility.

Who said anything about laser sighted or a marked target?

140

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:48:42pm

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cask of Amontillado style is also a hell of a way to go.

“FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MONTRESOR!”

“Yes,” I said, “for the love of God!”

Cask of Amontillado, redneck style:

Youtube Video

141

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:48:54pm

If there was no God, there would be no atheists.
G.K. Chesterton

And racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

Alright, enough of that site.

142

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:49:04pm

Now I’m off to my small, locally owned bank to deposit the fruits of capitalism.

143

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:49:08pm

re: #124 Simply Sarah

That’s my understanding, as well. That’s why they have three drugs, one to knock you out, one to paralyze you and then the potassium chloride to cause cardiac arrest. Overall, not the most pleasant sounding thing.

A friend of mine had to take her cat to be put to sleep and I went along. Whatever they use seems to act almost instantly.

(Thank God, her sister-in-law is a vet. It was as gentle an experience as you can hope for when the purpose is to kill an animal.)

144

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:51:57pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of mine had to take her cat to be put to sleep and I went along. Whatever they use seems to act almost instantly.

(Thank God, her sister-in-law is a vet. It was as gentle an experience as you can hope for when the purpose is to kill an animal.)

I’ve been present for the death of 3 cats and yes, it seemed rather peaceful. Although animals have a higher tolerance for pain, there was no whining or crying in any of the instances. But I don’t know if it’s the same thing.

145

TedStriker Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:52:42pm

re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m just going to loop the Tawny Kitaen parts if its all the same to you.

She has not aged well, IIRC.

146

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:52:54pm

Started watching Season 4 of Torchwood last night. The deal was all around the world, people stopped dying, no matter what injury. Things got messy.

147

HoosierHoops Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:52:54pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of mine had to take her cat to be put to sleep and I went along. Whatever they use seems to act almost instantly.

(Thank God, her sister-in-law is a vet. It was as gentle an experience as you can hope for when the purpose is to kill an animal.)

Man..Did you see Marley and Me? That was sad at the ending…

148

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:52:54pm

re: #134 Dreggas

my wife watches that show and i wouldn’t be surprised if it did have something to do with it. Kim Kardashian has contrbuted nothing to this society other than being a moron with a TV show which allows people to dream of being like “her”. Her, Paris Hilton and the rest of the twits of L.A. are pathetic IMO.

It’s fairly lame to lay this on Kim Kardashian. She didn’t start the fire, nor does she control the entertainment industry.

If we really want to change how that industry works, we’re going to have to ask some harder questions than ‘but is it fair for Kim Kardashian to be rich, when children are starving’?

149

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:53:28pm

Another voice of reason…
Why Progressives Should Shun Occupy Wall Street

When a movement rises up to target Wall Street fat cats and push for greater income equality, you might think that progressives everywhere would quickly latch on. But instead, some on the left are deeply skeptical of the Occupy Wall Street protests. They think its radical roots actually conflict with the modern progressive mission. They’re right to be wary, but a shared source of anger with the Tea Party crowd should worry them as well.

150

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:53:50pm

re: #145 talon_262

She has not aged well, IIRC.

No, but thats why we have the original video.

151

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:53:54pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of mine had to take her cat to be put to sleep and I went along. Whatever they use seems to act almost instantly.

(Thank God, her sister-in-law is a vet. It was as gentle an experience as you can hope for when the purpose is to kill an animal.)

I believe that with pets and other non-human animals (And in some cases of human euthanasia), they generally only use a large dose of a barbiturate to bring about death, rather than the three drugs used for most human lethal injection, which includes a lower dose of a barbiturate as the first drug administered in order to bring about unconsciousness. I think that’s right.

152

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:54:19pm

re: #148 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s fairly lame to lay this on Kim Kardashian. She didn’t start the fire, nor does she control the entertainment industry.

If we really want to change how that industry works, we’re going to have to ask some harder questions than ‘but is it fair for Kim Kardashian to be rich, when children are starving’?

I wonder what the author has to say about celebrities who’ve expressed their excitement over the ‘cause’. Roseanne’s not hurting. Is she also the problem?

153

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:55:47pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder what the author has to say about celebrities who’ve expressed their excitement over the ‘cause’. Roseanne’s not hurting. Is she also the problem?

Roseanne Barr? Oh girl, a problem in an most infinite and complex way.

154

Political Atheist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:56:02pm

re: #19 lawhawk

BTW, the issue about drugs used during lethal injections is a complicated one particularly since of late there’s been a shortage of one of the drugs and that can complicate matters and alternatives have to be approved (a lengthy process apparently).

Silly question came to mind-How the heck do ya use a medical approval system for a drug to kill somebody? The states were probably using the drug illegally-As in using it in a manner that it has not been proven safe and effective for. It might be a violation to sell the drug to a state for this purpose.

155

TedStriker Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:57:06pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Damn. Read the comments about Hitchens at this page: Hitchens Not Doing Well.

Right wing religious scum.

I’m not gonna read those comments, because I’m pretty damn sure what the “tone” is: lots of RWNJs rubbing their hands and cackling with glee at Hitchens’ impending demise.

Fucking twisted ghouls…

156

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:57:17pm

Of course, there could be a Roseanne Kardashian because I only realized who those silly girls were about 2 months ago…. shows my level of interest with reality TV.

157

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:58:11pm

re: #156 marjoriemoon

Of course, there could be a Roseanne Kardashian because I only realized who those silly girls were about 2 months ago… shows my level of interest with reality TV.

No, they all have Ks. Kim, Kourtney, and Khloe.

158

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:58:18pm

re: #154 Rightwingconspirator

Silly question came to mind-How the heck do ya use a medical approval system for a drug to kill somebody? The states were probably using the drug illegally-As in using it in a manner that it has not been proven safe and effective for. It might be a violation to sell the drug to a state for this purpose.

It’s all a bit twisted, isn’t it? Of course, that seems to be a large reason for the ‘shortage’, even if it may not always be publicly acknowledged: Drug makers deciding they didn’t much care for having their products used to execute people.

159

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:58:45pm

Image: User_Lord_Belar_Beating-a-dead-horse.gif

160

aagcobb Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:59:43pm

re: #89 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They could simply loop the GOP debates and wait for the person to die of boredom.

video

161

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:00:20pm

re: #158 Simply Sarah

It’s all a bit twisted, isn’t it? Of course, that seems to be a large reason for the ‘shortage’, even if it may not always be publicly acknowledged: Drug makers deciding they didn’t much care for having their products used to execute people.

And there’s another topic.

You think the pharmaceutical companies really care all that much?

162

TedStriker Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:00:45pm

re: #150 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, but thats why we have the original video.

Whatever you think of David Coverdale and Whitesnake (hey, as a child of the 80s, I love most of their stuff), Kitaen was teh hot back in the day.

163

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:01:01pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

Another voice of reason…
Why Progressives Should Shun Occupy Wall Street

Right. Let’s have a look at the author:

Daniel Indiviglio - Daniel Indiviglio is an associate editor at The Atlantic, where he writes about the intersection of business, finance, economics, and politics. Prior to joining The Atlantic, he wrote for Forbes. He also worked as an investment banker and a consultant. More
The particular subject matter on which Indiviglio tends to focus includes economics, regulation, the housing market, credit, unemployment, monetary & fiscal policy, taxes, banking, autos, and technology.

He is also a 2011 Robert Novak Journalism Fellow through the Phillips Foundation. His fellowship project will explore solutions for housing finance policy reform.

Interesting. Robert Novak Journalism Fellow. Now let’s look at the Phillips Foundation:

The Phillips Foundation is “a non-profit organization founded in 1990 to advance constitutional principles, a democratic society and a vibrant free enterprise system,” its website states.

“In 1994, the Foundation launched its annual journalism fellowship program to award grants to working print journalists to undertake and complete projects of their own choosing, focusing on journalism supportive of American culture and a free society. In 1999, the Foundation launched its Future Leaders Program to provide renewable cash awards to college undergraduates who demonstrate leadership on behalf of the cause of freedom, American values and constitutional principles.”

Trustees

Thomas L. Phillips, Chairman; Chairman of Phillips International, Inc. and Eagle Publishing
Becky Norton Dunlop; Vice President for External Relations at The Heritage Foundation
Thomas A. Fuentes; Senior Vice President of LFC in Orange County, Calif., and Senior Fellow at The Claremont Institute
Robert D. Novak
Alfred S. Regnery; Publisher of The American Spectator
Ronald E. Robinson; President of Young America’s Foundation

164

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:02:50pm

re: #163 Gus 802

READY, FIRE, AIM!

165

blueraven Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:02:56pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

I like Gus, and I like Killgore, and I like debate and discussion. I don’t like it when people snipe and snark at each other, but I have a high tolerance for it.

I have three brothers and three sisters.

I agree! The thing is…this is not a clearly black and white issue. I do take exception to KTs condescending tone, that most of us are helpless, brain dead, moonbats who cant make an objective, rational assessment.

I am watching and waiting. The grievances are real. There are many groups represented at OWS. If the radicals take over, I will not support the movement. But that has not been proven by a few cherry picked videos and photos of nut cases. It is cause for some healthy skepticism, but not a overall bashing of people voicing their disgust with what is going on in this country.

166

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:03:27pm

re: #163 Gus 802

Right. Let’s have a look at the author:

Interesting. Robert Novak Journalism Fellow. Now let’s look at the Phillips Foundation:

Another one from “the voice of reason”:

Obama’s Misguided Effort to Protect the Unemployed From Hiring Bias

167

Summer Seale Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:03:47pm

I don’t know if anyone has seen this yet but here’s a great visual representation of what people are angry about with Wall Street:

Business Insider: CHARTS: Here’s What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About…

All in charts.

I know it’s a serious concern to some that there isn’t a clear message, but I think those charts fill that need.

168

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:04:28pm

Hamas official: Schalit won’t be last solider we kidnap

Hamas on Wednesday warned that Gilad Schalit will not be the last soldier that they will kidnap. Abu Obaida, spokesman for the armed wing of Hamas, Izzadin Kassam said that Schalit, who is set to be released as part of a prisoner exchange deal, “will not be the last solider kidnapped by Hamas as long as Israel keeps Palestinian prisoners detained.”

169

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:04:52pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Another one from “the voice of reason”:

Obama’s Misguided Effort to Protect the Unemployed From Hiring Bias

good points. I stand corrected.

170

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:05:03pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Another one from “the voice of reason”:

Obama’s Misguided Effort to Protect the Unemployed From Hiring Bias

And here he goes to bat for Koch Industries:

Bloomberg’s Exposé on Koch Industries Reveals … What Exactly?

171

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:05:46pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

good points. I stand corrected.

How’d the frog army do this summer?

172

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:06:33pm

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

OWS has found a new person to go after:

Yeah. She “earned” it.

173

webevintage Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:06:44pm

re: #146 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Started watching Season 4 of Torchwood last night. The deal was all around the world, people stopped dying, no matter what injury. Things got messy.

Meh.
I watched the whole season, but could never get past the fact that The Doctor said Jack is a fixed point in time (and we saw what happens if you mess with a fixed point in time on the last Doctor Who episode) so how could he become mortal.
Maybe I just did not pay enough attention.

174

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:07:07pm

re: #161 marjoriemoon

And there’s another topic.

You think the pharmaceutical companies really care all that much?

Surprisingly, yes. While Hospira (And Abbot before that) still manufactured sodium thiopental, they made very clear they didn’t support its use in executions and only made it for hospital use. Of course, the only reason they actually stopped making it was they moved where it had been manufactured to Italy and Italy basically said “If you make it here, you have to swear it won’t be used in executions” and that wasn’t a promise they were willing to make.

But really, I think if a drug only was used for executions, you’d have a lot of trouble getting it made. It’s not exactly good for a company’s PR or their relationship with countries other than the U.S.

175

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:07:32pm

Joe Walsh Says He Had ‘Verbal’ Deal Not To Pay Child Support

176

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:08:14pm

re: #170 Gus 802

And here he goes to bat for Koch Industries:

Bloomberg’s Exposé on Koch Industries Reveals … What Exactly?

The cognitive dissonance in the comments is amusing.

177

Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:08:34pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

How’d the frog army do this summer?

Not good. I haven’t heard a survivor for about a week. If there are any others they’re still too young to croak. I might end up with a breeding pair for next year but it’s looking kind of doubtful.

178

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:09:14pm

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Not good. I haven’t heard a survivor for about a week. If there are any others they’re still too young to croak. I might end up with a breeding pair for next year but it’s looking kind of doubtful.

Darn, that sucks.

179

engineer cat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:09:21pm

re: #165 blueraven

I am watching and waiting. The grievances are real. There are many groups represented at OWS. If the radicals take over, I will not support the movement. But that has not been proven by a few cherry picked videos and photos of nut cases. It is cause for some healthy skepticism, but not a overall bashing of people voicing their disgust with what is going on in this country.

i’ll say it again:

i agree with the protesters that i agree with, and i disagree with the other ones

people will argue, elections will be held, time will march on, money will always corrupt politics, and nothing will change

180

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:09:25pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

good points. I stand corrected.

Groovy. I hate this little skirmish we’ve been having BTW.

181

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:09:26pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Too bad we don’t have an ignore button.

It’s a forum for the exchange of ideas.

Exchange an idea, dammit!

182

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:10:08pm

re: #180 Gus 802

Groovy. I hate this little skirmish we’ve been having BTW.

I’ll tell you what.
I’ll give you both stun guns.
HAVE AT IT!
/

183

SpaceJesus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:10:20pm

Hard to believe there are conservatives in Florida, when the word Florida is so close to the word fluoride. You’d think they would all avoid it like the plague.

184

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:10:27pm

re: #181 000G

It’s a forum for the exchange of ideas.

Exchange an idea, dammit!

/

I’m hungry! And cold. This damn house. I tells ya’. Feels like it’s 55 in here.

185

Simply Sarah Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:10:36pm

re: #181 000G

It’s a forum for the exchange of ideas.

Exchange an idea, dammit!

/

I lost my receipt. Can I still get cash for it or only store credit? It’s not opened!

186

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:11:18pm

re: #181 000G

It’s a forum for the exchange of ideas.

Exchange an idea, dammit!

/

Where’s the button for that feature???
I want a pizza.

187

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:11:30pm

re: #168 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hamas official: Schalit won’t be last solider we kidnap

They’re including Ahlam Tamimi in the swap.

I’m doing my best to cope.

188

lostlakehiker Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:11:58pm

re: #121 Gus 802

Damn. Read the comments about Hitchens at this page: Hitchens Not Doing Well.

Right wing religious scum.

Count this RW-er as a stout Hitchens fan. I’m not at all surprised that he’s doing badly; just regretful. (He never gave us any reason to expect a different outcome.) I’ve always admired his honesty.

189

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:12:08pm

re: #186 Varek Raith

A pizza button? The best idea evar!!

190

aagcobb Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:12:47pm

re: #13 Charleston Chew

Republican problem solving:

1. Try God. Is it solved? Y/N
2. If N try guns. Is it solved? Y/N
3. If N go to 1.

Choice number 1 should be “Try tax cuts.”

191

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:13:11pm

re: #190 aagcobb

Choice number 1 should be “Try tax cuts.”

4. RON PAUL!

192

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:15:48pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

They’re including Ahlam Tamimi in the swap.

I’m doing my best to cope.

I’m still trying to figure on the exchange rate of 1 Israeli is worth 1000 Palestinians. I wonder if they agree with that exchange rate when they kill an Israeli.

193

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:16:04pm

I respect and read what KT posts about OWS.
I just get a tad annoyed with his editorials.
:)

194

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:17:01pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

I respect and read what KT posts about OWS.
I just get a tad annoyed with his editorials.
:)

I get hysterical.

195

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:17:05pm

re: #163 Gus 802

Right. Let’s have a look at the author:

Interesting. Robert Novak Journalism Fellow. Now let’s look at the Phillips Foundation:

Aka, the m.f. who outed Valerie Plame.

Nice that he has a fellowship named after him. 9_9

196

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:18:58pm

re: #194 Gus 802

I get hysterical.

//

We all have our ‘go berserk’ buttons.

FLAK IS WHAT YOU SHOOT AT PLANES!!! NOT FLACK!!!!
:P

197

engineer cat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:19:07pm

here is my own personal OWS protest

Bankers aren’t optimistic about those gains. Options Group’s Karp said he met last month over tea at the Gramercy Park Hotel in New York with a trader who made $500,000 last year at one of the six largest U.S. banks.

The trader, a 27-year-old Ivy League graduate, complained that he has worked harder this year and will be paid less. The headhunter told him to stay put and collect his bonus.

“This is very demoralizing to people,” Karp said. “Especially young guys who have gone to college and wanted to come onto the Street, having dreams of becoming millionaires.”

[Link: www.bloomberg.com…]

my heart bleeds for him

198

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:19:29pm

re: #188 lostlakehiker

Count this RW-er as a stout Hitchens fan. I’m not at all surprised that he’s doing badly; just regretful. (He never gave us any reason to expect a different outcome.) I’ve always admired his honesty.

Yeah, that’s a creepy website. I would never think of saying those things about people I disagree with politically and morally. Only if they were criminals of one sort or another like Osama bin Laden or Anders Breivik. But if Rick Perry or Rush Limbaugh got cancer and was dying like this? There’s no way I would resort to such repugnant rhetoric.

199

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:20:01pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

They’re including Ahlam Tamimi in the swap.

I’m doing my best to cope.

If this swap can be seen in any good light at all, it certainly brings renewed spotlight and media attention to some of the most evil human scum. Scum that Hamas is proud of. Those who didn’t know yet get a chance to learn.

Trying to see the silver lining…

200

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:20:17pm

re: #142 wrenchwench

Now I’m off to my small, locally owned bank to deposit the fruits of capitalism.

Across the street from my small, locally owned bank, next to the large corporate bank, were two guys holding signs. One said “I’m part of the 99%”. I couldn’t see the other one. I thought at first they were sitting on a bench at the bus stop. Then I remembered that we’re so fucking poor here, we don’t have benches at the bus stops. We’re lucky to have a bus, it’s pretty new, and supported with your tax dollars. They were sitting on those folding canvas camp chairs.

Back to the bikes.

201

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:21:23pm

re: #200 wrenchwench

Across the street from my small, locally owned bank, next to the large corporate bank, were two guys holding signs. One said “I’m part of the 99%”. I couldn’t see the other one. I thought at first they were sitting on a bench at the bus stop. Then I remembered that we’re so fucking poor here, we don’t have benches at the bus stops. We’re lucky to have a bus, it’s pretty new, and supported with your tax dollars. They were sitting on those folding canvas camp chairs.

Back to the bikes.

I’ve been procrastinating. Have some more “upscale” apartments I should be working on. Design concept. Yep, you read right. Upscale. ;)

202

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:21:33pm

re: #196 Varek Raith

We all have our ‘go berserk’ buttons.

FLAK IS WHAT YOU SHOOT AT PLANES!!! NOT FLACK!!!
:P

Or!

OMFG did you just say ‘turrents’ instead of ‘turrets’?!?!!
GTFO!

There, I feel better now. Lol.

203

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:22:01pm

re: #197 engineer dog

Awwww, poor baby! I hope somebody gives him a million HUGS!

204

engineer cat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:22:05pm

gone to college and wanted to come onto the Street, having dreams of becoming

…and just think of what has happened to my dream of becoming a nomadic mounted war lord with 57 beautiful concubines ruthlessly snatched from a wide variety of conquered nations!

it’s affected my job performance i tell ya

205

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:22:08pm

re: #201 Gus 802

I’ve been procrastinating. Have some more “upscale” apartments I should be working on. Design concept. Yep, you read right. Upscale. ;)

I’m in the market for an Ivory Tower of Doom.

206

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:22:26pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

Or!

OMFG did you just say ‘turrents’ instead of ‘turrets’?!?!!
GTFO!

There, I feel better now. Lol.

ITS HELMET NOT HELMENT YOU MORON!

207

TedStriker Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:22:34pm

re: #186 Varek Raith

Where’s the button for that feature???
I want a pizza.

See Herman Cain for that…I hear he’s got a 9-9-9 special going on.

208

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:23:12pm

re: #198 Gus 802

Yeah, that’s a creepy website. I would never think of saying those things about people I disagree with politically and morally. Only if they were criminals of one sort or another like Osama bin Laden or Anders Breivik. But if Rick Perry or Rush Limbaugh got cancer and was dying like this? There’s no way I would resort to such repugnant rhetoric.

Even weirder: Reading those comments out loud, then trying to imagine the sound of those words in any public setting.

Oh internet!

209

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:24:08pm

re: #197 engineer dog

Some wish-i-wuz-rich cutthroat said,

“This is very demoralizing to people,” Karp said. “Especially young guys who have gone to college and wanted to come onto the Street, having dreams of becoming millionaires.”

e_e

Cry me a frackin’ river; boo hoo.

210

Bubblehead II Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:25:02pm

re: #161 marjoriemoon

And there’s another topic.

You think the pharmaceutical companies really care all that much?

Apparently the sole U.S. Maker does.

The sole U.S. manufacturer of sodium thiopental, an anesthetic used as part of the lethal three-drug cocktail, announced last month that it would stop making the drug because the producer never intended it to be used to kill people.

211

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:25:07pm

I was actually talking about Hitchens just last night. Forget how he came up in conversation. I like Hitchens. He’s not a guy I am always going to agree with but I appreciate any writer who is willing to attack sacred cows because no cow is truly sacred. He’s an interesting guy. I hope his suffering has been painless.

212

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:25:33pm

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cask of Amontillado style is also a hell of a way to go.

“FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, MONTRESOR!”

“Yes,” I said, “for the love of God!”

Always loved this album

Youtube Video

213

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:25:41pm

re: #201 Gus 802

I’ve been procrastinating. Have some more “upscale” apartments I should be working on. Design concept. Yep, you read right. Upscale. ;)

For the upper class lizards only?

214

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:26:10pm

re: #209 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Some wish-i-wuz-rich cutthroat said,

e_e

Cry me a frackin’ river; boo hoo.

Did you see Erick Erickson whining about his three jobs and a house he can’t sell?
Lol.

215

FemNaziBitch Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:27:16pm

Hows the afternoon going all?

216

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:27:36pm

re: #207 talon_262

See Herman Cain for that…I hear he’s got a 9-9-9 special going on.

9 toppings in 9 minutes for only $9.99!

217

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:27:47pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Did you see Erick Erickson whining about his three jobs and a house he can’t sell?
Lol.

Yeah, and if he did sell it, he’d only have one left. The horror.

218

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:28:54pm

re: #217 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, and if he did sell it, he’d only have one left. The horror.

Maybe we should hold a telethon. We could call it Occupy Erick Erickson’s House.

219

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:29:11pm

re: #217 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, and if he did sell it, he’d only have one left. The horror.

I know!
I can’t imagine the hardship of getting paid to spout right wing nonsense.
;)

220

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:29:22pm

It’s funny to me. People like Erickson and I believe one of the Congressional freshmen were complaining about how hard they have it. And ya know I consider myself an sympathetic person but my sympathy goes out the window for guys like that who like to demonize people who are in far more dire straits than them.

221

engineer cat Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:30:06pm

re: #216 Gus 802

9 toppings in 9 minutes for only $9.99!

//

seriously, cain was flogging 999 last night like it was a retail promotion

because apparently he is unable to think of politics as any different than a retail promotion

222

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:30:22pm

re: #219 Varek Raith

I know!
I can’t imagine the hardship of getting paid to spout right wing nonsense.
;)

And in Erick Erickson’s case it’s not like you have to be… smart.

Just throw a bunch of words up in the air and let them all land in random wingnut fashion.

223

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:30:45pm

CNN, MSNBC, FNC if you’re willing to pay me I’ll spout whatever political BS your viewers want to hear.
/

224

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:30:56pm

Random OWS thought of the day:

People saying of themselves “I am a capitalist!” when they mean to say “I believe in capitalism being a good system / the best system there is.” display an attitude that I think Gramsci called “subaltern”.

Because really, in “capitalism”, the capitalists are those who own the capital. The rest, if they even have any income at all, are all mere workers, no matter how privileged (not getting into the mutual dependency issues).

Kinda like saying “I am a communist” has a completely different meaning whether it’s said in a “capitalist” society or under a “communist” regime.

225

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:31:04pm

re: #221 engineer dog

seriously, cain was flogging 999 last night like it was a retail promotion

because apparently he is unable to think of politics as any different than a retail promotion

It’s a pathetic gimmick. 999. Sheesh.

226

FemNaziBitch Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:31:37pm

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Not good. I haven’t heard a survivor for about a week. If there are any others they’re still too young to croak. I might end up with a breeding pair for next year but it’s looking kind of doubtful.

You can come and get Patio Toad. We don’t need him, and I think he is lonely.

227

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:32:06pm

re: #221 engineer dog

seriously, cain was flogging 999 last night like it was a retail promotion

because apparently he is unable to think of politics as any different than a retail promotion

I laughed out loud with the 999/666 line that Crazy Lady stole from Charles.

Though, she meant it.

228

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:32:07pm

re: #225 Gus 802

It’s a pathetic gimmick. 999. Sheesh.

The fact that it’s a gimmick gives it a real chance of becoming policy.

229

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:32:29pm

re: #204 engineer dog

gone to college and wanted to come onto the Street, having dreams of becoming

…and just think of what has happened to my dream of becoming a nomadic mounted war lord with 57 beautiful concubines ruthlessly snatched from a wide variety of conquered nations!

it’s affected my job performance i tell ya

You know, I’ve spent my working life as a nonprofit administrator, and then as a school teacher. And if I say a fucking word of complaint, everyone tells me I CHOSE to be in these fantastically nonrenumerated careers.

So now I’m training to be a ridiculously overpriced therapist who will fix the problem children of the affluent, and yeah, I can sort of understand the anger of deliberately going into a field so you could become a millionaire, and having it not turn out so well. There just comes a point.

230

Kragar Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:32:38pm

In the name of judicial transparency, I demand access to all the evidence so a fair, impartial judgement can be reached.

FBI Arrests Suspect In Scarlett Johansson Nude Photo Hacking Case

231

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:32:49pm

re: #221 engineer dog

seriously, cain was flogging 999 last night like it was a retail promotion

because apparently he is unable to think of politics as any different than a retail promotion

9-9-9 was one of the debate drinking game buzz words at the party I was at last night. And I had brought Jameson in my flask so I was pretty hammered. But yeah the whole thing sounds like a pizza deal to me that isn’t nearly as good as the promoter is making it out to be. 9% sales tax? Are you out of your mind? Yeah consumers are going to love that Herman. 9% income tax, yeah because the poorest man should be paying the same rate in taxes as the richest man which isn’t totally true anyhow since the rich man can find loopholes.

232

kirkspencer Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:32:49pm

re: #165 blueraven

I agree! The thing is…this is not a clearly black and white issue. I do take exception to KTs condescending tone, that most of us are helpless, brain dead, moonbats who cant make an objective, rational assessment.

I am watching and waiting. The grievances are real. There are many groups represented at OWS. If the radicals take over, I will not support the movement. But that has not been proven by a few cherry picked videos and photos of nut cases. It is cause for some healthy skepticism, but not a overall bashing of people voicing their disgust with what is going on in this country.

re: #222 Gus 802

And in Erick Erickson’s case it’s not like you have to be… smart.

Just throw a bunch of words up in the air and let them all land in random wingnut fashion.

Which doesn’t say much about the difficulty of being an attorney in Georgia, does it? (passed the bar in 2000).

233

FemNaziBitch Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:32:56pm

re: #221 engineer dog

seriously, cain was flogging 999 last night like it was a retail promotion

because apparently he is unable to think of politics as any different than a retail promotion

He certainly understands the psychological value of repetition.

234

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:33:14pm

Where the hell did Cain get that 999 stuff from anyway?
Out of his ass?
An economist?
Crystal ball?

235

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:33:58pm

re: #234 Varek Raith

Where the hell did Cain get that 999 stuff from anyway?
Out of his ass?
An economist?
Crystal ball?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

236

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:34:33pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I’ve spent my working life as a nonprofit administrator, and then as a school teacher. And if I say a fucking word of complaint, everyone tells me I CHOSE to be in these fantastically nonrenumerated careers.

So now I’m training to be a ridiculously overpriced therapist who will fix the problem children of the affluent, and yeah, I can sort of understand the anger of deliberately going into a field so you could become a millionaire, and having it not turn out so well. There just comes a point.

I have a relative who staples hair onto rich white mens head. Business has never been better.

237

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:34:39pm

re: #234 Varek Raith

Where the hell did Cain get that 999 stuff from anyway?
Out of his ass?
An economist?
Crystal ball?

An econonomist, UP his ass, CONSULTING a crystal ball.

238

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:34:47pm

re: #234 Varek Raith

Where the hell did Cain get that 999 stuff from anyway?
Out of his ass?
An economist?
Crystal ball?

Make a poll!

239

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:35:40pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

An econonomist, UP his ass, CONSULTING a crystal ball.

Myself I was thinking an economist consulting a crystal ball that was up his ass.

240

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:35:48pm

re: #235 000G

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Ha!
Figures.
Thanks.

241

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:36:17pm

re: #234 Varek Raith

Where the hell did Cain get that 999 stuff from anyway?
Out of his ass?
An economist?
Crystal ball?

His advisers probably. It’s memorable and appeals to those who really think economic prosperity is just a 9% sales tax, 9% income tax, and 9% capital gains? tax away. It’s a cheap gimmick with no substance. You know the same stuff the right said Obama was.

242

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:36:31pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

So now I’m training to be a ridiculously overpriced therapist who will fix the problem children of the affluent

If you had to use one word to describe the sentiment expressed in this statement, what would it be?

243

kirkspencer Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:36:39pm

re: #231 HappyWarrior

9-9-9 was one of the debate drinking game buzz words at the party I was at last night. And I had brought Jameson in my flask so I was pretty hammered. But yeah the whole thing sounds like a pizza deal to me that isn’t nearly as good as the promoter is making it out to be. 9% sales tax? Are you out of your mind? Yeah consumers are going to love that Herman. 9% income tax, yeah because the poorest man should be paying the same rate in taxes as the richest man which isn’t totally true anyhow since the rich man can find loopholes.

The 9% income tax - and for that matter all the so-called simple income tax plans - always run into one little quagmire: define income. Gifts? Capital gains? Inheritances? It no longer surprises me that most of these “alternative incomes” that are more common to rich than poor are exempted from the plans. “No, we just mean salaries. Wages. You know, sweat of the brow income.”

244

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:37:14pm

re: #233 ggt

He certainly understands the psychological value of repetition.

Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9.}}}}}}}}}}

_{Youtube Video}

245

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:37:59pm

re: #244 Gus 802

Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9. _{Number 9.}}}}}}}}}}

[Video]

Oops. Messed up the video…

Youtube Video

Beatles… Revolution 9.

246

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:38:13pm

Nine Nine Nine

Youtube Video

247

FemNaziBitch Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:39:00pm

re: #240 Varek Raith

Ha!
Figures.
Thanks.

I haven’t even begun to understand the concept of 9-9-9. And, I doubt I will as I don’t see it being anything I ever have to deal with in real life.

I don’t mind someone other than an economist contributing to the discussion. Economists work with theories and make their best guestimate-no? Where has that gotten us?

We need new ideas —even if we don’t implement them all.

248

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:40:12pm

I see RWNJs have come up with a clever nickname for the Occupy Protesters:

Occupests

249

BongCrodny Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:40:23pm

re: #163 Gus 802

Robert Novak Journalism

I’ve stumbled across a lot of oxymorons in my day, but that one may just dwarf all others by several magnitudes.

250

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:40:27pm

re: #238 Gus 802

Make a poll!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

251

HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:40:36pm

re: #243 kirkspencer

The 9% income tax - and for that matter all the so-called simple income tax plans - always run into one little quagmire: define income. Gifts? Capital gains? Inheritances? It no longer surprises me that most of these “alternative incomes” that are more common to rich than poor are exempted from the plans. “No, we just mean salaries. Wages. You know, sweat of the brow income.”

Yep. As I said, it’s a catchphrase just like “Drill Baby Drill” or “Read My Lips No New Taxes.” Cheap substance designed to appease. I think Romney called him out on it last night since Cain was criticizing the fact that Romney’s economic policy plan is more detailed and actually has some substance to it (substance I probably don’t agree with but more than just Cain’s 9-9-9)

252

Gus Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:41:19pm

re: #250 Varek Raith

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Voted!

253

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:42:12pm

re: #242 000G

If you had to use one word to describe the sentiment expressed in this statement, what would it be?

Aspirational!

;)

254

iceweasel Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:42:33pm

re: #250 Varek Raith

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Loved it. Voted!

255

Varek Raith Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:42:38pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

Aspirational!

;)

RONPAUL

256

FemNaziBitch Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:46:23pm

re: #255 Varek Raith

RONPAUL

Is that a new drinking game?

257

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:46:29pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

Aspirational!

;)

A woman’s reach should exceed her grasp.

Per aspera ad astra, SFZ.

258

FemNaziBitch Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:48:23pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

So, you are going to have back-to-back appointments 8 hours a day that always show-up? And you are going to spend how many hours working on insurance filings and other BS after-work?

good luck!

259

What, me worry? Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:11:06pm

re: #174 Simply Sarah

re: #210 Bubblehead II

Well, I learned something today. Thanks :)

260

makeitstop Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:14:24pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Did you see Erick Erickson whining about his three jobs and a house he can’t sell?
Lol.

And a lot of Facebook rubes linked to that punk, as if he was making some kind of brave stand or something. Then I posted the story from ThinkProgress that pointed out that he’s probably making north of $200K a year.

Everybody quieted down at that point. Funny.

261

RogueOne Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:18:47pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

I respect and read what KT posts about OWS.
I just get a tad annoyed with his editorials.
:)

I’ve enjoyed some of the hippie beating jokes. I may not necessarily agree but the slo-mo hippie beating joke was funny.

262

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:28:47pm

re: #261 RogueOne

I’ll remind you of that should you ever voice concern over a human being’s suffering that you happen to empathise with being made fun of.

263

kg7u Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:35:22pm

My first impression upon seeing “firing squad” was “blood atonement”, in which case maybe he is trying to do the condemned criminals a favor; but Florida Rep. Brad Drake’s Wikipedia entry shows his religion as Baptist, not LDS. So, he is, presumably, a true Christian, and not a member of a cult.

264

RogueOne Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:37:52pm

re: #262 000G

I’ll remind you of that should you ever voice concern over a human being’s suffering that you happen to empathise with being made fun of.

There are plenty of times where I disagree with a premise but I laugh because good snark is good snark. After all the gallows humor in this thread I still don’t think any of the posters here are blood thirsty bastards….maybe just a couple.

265

goddamnedfrank Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:52:43pm

re: #81 Hawaii69

.45 caliber bullets? Is he introducing firing squads that use pistols?

Considering what a clusterfuck lethal injection turns out to be half the
time, you’re probably better off takin 5 or 6 high caliber rounds to the
heart. Rifle rounds, that is, Brad…

.45 is not exclusively a pistol caliber, examples include .45-70 Government, .45-90 & .45-110 Sharps, .450 Marlin/Rigby/etc. Also several lever action carbines are chambered in .45 Long Colt, being designed a revolver cartridge it picks up a considerable amount of energy in a long barrel with no cylinder gap.

266

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:38:06pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

Another voice of reason…
Why Progressives Should Shun Occupy Wall Street

That piece is indeed a pleasure to read. Reasonable arguments without cheering for unprovoked physical abuse of the protesters and false broad-brush accusations of antisemitism. One hopes more OWS critics will follow the suit.

267

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:45:39pm

re: #261 RogueOne

I’ve enjoyed some of the hippie beating jokes. I may not necessarily agree but the slo-mo hippie beating joke was funny.

I don’t know what can be funny in principle about macing (not even beating) a random peaceful human being. Perhaps one needs a certain mindset to get it.

268

Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown(New Dance Craze) Wed, Oct 12, 2011 4:20:31pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh my god. You will make a fantastic therapist!

269

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Oct 12, 2011 4:41:45pm

Yeah, Mr. Karp sounds as if he thinks he’s somehow entitled to the millis he desires, though. Now, he finds out he’s not, any more than anyone else is.

/Schadenfreude

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I’ve spent my working life as a nonprofit administrator, and then as a school teacher. And if I say a fucking word of complaint, everyone tells me I CHOSE to be in these fantastically nonrenumerated careers.

So now I’m training to be a ridiculously overpriced therapist who will fix the problem children of the affluent, and yeah, I can sort of understand the anger of deliberately going into a field so you could become a millionaire, and having it not turn out so well. There just comes a point.

270

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Oct 12, 2011 4:42:56pm

I agree.

re: #268 Cankles McCellulite

Oh my god. You will make a fantastic therapist!

271

Hawaii69 Wed, Oct 12, 2011 7:28:15pm

re: #265 goddamnedfrank

.45 is not exclusively a pistol caliber, examples include .45-70 Government, .45-90 & .45-110 Sharps, .450 Marlin/Rigby/etc. Also several lever action carbines are chambered in .45 Long Colt, being designed a revolver cartridge it picks up a considerable amount of energy in a long barrel with no cylinder gap.

Sure, but I’m assuming that modern firing squad exections aren’t going to be carried out by cowboys.

Utah used the .30-.30, and most firing squads I’ve ever seen photos or videos of have been using long rifles.

I’m thinking that guy just didn’t know what he was talking about, and “.45” sounded like a very manly calibre to toss out in conversation…

272

Dark_Falcon Wed, Oct 12, 2011 8:16:50pm

re: #19 lawhawk

Every state other than Utah has either banned capital punishment or has limited it to lethal injection. Ol’ Sparky got the neutralized. The firing squad was shot down in flames, and the lethal injection had its plug pulled. Even Utah has ended use of the firing squad on new capital crimes - those already on death row and convicted under the old law would potentially be able to choose death by firing squad.

Oklahoma is the only state where firing squad is still viable (as a secondary option).

Yet, this Florida politician want to bring back the firing squad? Even if you think that the death penalty is viable, I think the courts would find this potentially cruel and unusual punishment and strike it down. It has no additional value (shock value - yes, value to society at large? minimal or negative).

And it’s interesting to note that crime rates have dropped even though the use of firing squads has declined - so there’s not likely a benefit to be gained from having the practice.

BTW, the issue about drugs used during lethal injections is a complicated one particularly since of late there’s been a shortage of one of the drugs and that can complicate matters and alternatives have to be approved (a lengthy process apparently).

And I think the courts are wrong on this point. I also think that the firing squad and hanging are better methods of execution compared to lethal injection, mostly because they make it very clear the person is being killed. You cannot, as with lethal injection, call it a “procedure”. Thus I actually think this bill a decent idea. I’d much rather have death by gunfire as opposed to death by chemicals, since it is clearer and more visceral.

Spy Mode Auto

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Unreal: Florida Republican Introduces Bill to Bring Back Firing Squads

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