Fake Outrage of the Day: Obama Did Not Offer to Apologize for Hiroshima

The perpetual outrage machine misfires again
Wingnuts • Views: 27,083

Here we go again. Based on a (probably deliberate) misreading of a diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks, the right wing media are having yet another attack of the vapors. Linked at Drudge Report: Apologies Not Accepted - Investors.com.

Leaked cables show Japan nixed a presidential apology to Hiroshima and Nagasaki for using nukes to end the overseas contingency operation known as World War II. Will the next president apologize for the current one?

The obsessive need of this president to apologize for American exceptionalism and our defense of freedom continued recently when Barack Obama’s State Department (run by Hillary Clinton) contacted the family of al-Qaida propagandist and recruiter Samir Khan to “express its condolences” to his family.

Khan, a right-hand man to Anwar al-Awlaki, was killed along with Awlaki in an airstrike in Yemen on Sept. 30. We apologized for killing a terrorist before he could help kill any more of us.

It’s yet another part of the world apology tour that began with Obama taking the oath of office to protect and defend the United States and its Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, something he immediately felt sorry for.

One stop on his tour was Prague in August 2009. There he spoke of “America’s commitment to seek the peace and security of a world without nuclear weapons,” ignoring that before 1945 we lived in such a world and it was neither peaceful nor secure.

Another stop on the tour was in Japan, where Obama in November 2009 bowed to the emperor, something no American president had ever done. It could have been worse if plans to visit Nagasaki and Hiroshima to apologize for winning the war with the atom bombs had come to pass.

A heretofore secret cable dated Sept. 3, 2009, was recently released by WikiLeaks. Sent to Secretary of State Clinton, it reported Japan’s Vice Foreign Minister Mitoji Yabunaka telling U.S. Ambassador John Roos that “the idea of President Obama visiting Hiroshima to apologize for the atomic bombing during World War II is a ‘nonstarter.’”

The Japanese feared the apology would be exploited by anti-nuclear groups and those opposed to the defensive alliance between Japan and the U.S.

Whatever Tokyo’s motive, Obama’s motive was to once again apologize for defending freedom, this time for winning with devastating finality the war Japan started.

It never stops. No matter how many Al Qaeda terrorists the Obama administration eliminates, these people just keep feeding the right wing base fairytales about Obama’s “weakness” and his “apology tours.”

Here’s the truth, not that it matters in the wingnut echo chamber:

A senior White House official asserts to ABC News that there was never any plan for the president to apologize for Hiroshima.� The cable does not state that the idea was from the U.S. Rather, Roos writes that Yabunaka thought that following President Obama’s call earlier that year for a world free of nuclear weapons, anti-nuclear groups would speculate as to whether he would visit Hiroshima.

In other words, there’s absolutely no evidence that this “apology” was proposed by the Obama administration. None. Here’s the actual cable they’re freaking out about:

VFM Yabunaka pointed out that the Japanese public will have high expectations toward President Obama’s visit to Japan in November, as the President enjoys an historic level of popularity among the Japanese people. Anti-nuclear groups, in particular, will speculate whether the President would visit Hiroshima in light of his April 5 Prague speech on non-proliferation. He underscored, however, that both governments must temper the public’s expectations on such issues, as the idea of President Obama visiting Hiroshima to apologize for the atomic bombing during World War II is a “non-starter.” While a simple visit to Hiroshima without fanfare is sufficiently symbolic to convey the right message, it is premature to include such program in the November visit.

There should be circus music playing. Imagine circus music.

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112 comments
1 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:41:43pm

Good, there is no freakin’ reason to apologize.

2 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:41:54pm

It fits in with their construct that Obama goes around apologizing even though his actual policies show that’s hardly the case.

3 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:44:00pm

“There should be circus music playing. Imagine circus music.”

Do-Do-Do—Do-Da-Da-Lot-Do-DO!

4 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:44:59pm

What’s the deal with Investor’s Business Daily, btw? I see Glenn Beck’s The Blaze often links it and apparently it gets pimped a lot in RWNJ circles.

5 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:45:32pm

Did someone say circus music?

6 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:47:08pm

IBD is nasty.

7 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:47:16pm

re: #5 Gus 802

Did someone say circus music?

[Video]

Entry Of The Gladiators - Julius Fucik

And as you know. Circuses come with elephants.

8 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:49:27pm

so the japanese and the administration both agree that an apology is a non-starter and this means what, exactly?

*facepalm*

9 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:49:35pm

re: #5 Gus 802

Did someone say circus music?

[Video]

I prefer:

10 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:50:10pm

I’m still in a pissy-mood, so I’m going to sign-off.

Have a great afternoon all!

11 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:50:52pm
IBD engaging in death panel lies.

Human Events, the right-wing magazine, lauded this IBD piece for having “exposed the Achilles’ heel of Obamacare.”

Now, it might be tempting to respond to the IBD piece by noting that the health care reform proposal backed by Democrats is in no way similar to the British health care system, so these mind-numbing comparisons don’t make any sense. That, of course, would be a fair response.

But let’s not overlook the punch-line here. As Bookman noted, “Of course, that same Stephen Hawking who wouldn’t have a chance in the United Kingdom was in fact born in the United Kingdom, has lived his entire life in the United Kingdom and lives there still today, at the ripe old age of 67. (He was in fact hospitalized earlier this month.) Hawking is, you might say, living, breathing proof that these people are first-class fools.”

Ever wonder what the reform debate would be like if conservatives approached it with a shred of intellectual seriousness?

12 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:53:33pm

To David Barton, 32% is the vast majority of Americans


Barton: You’re gonna have to choose a president who’s going to enforce laws that the rest of us think are important. Now he’s choosing to enforce the laws and not enforce the laws he thinks are important, and it’s not where the nation is. You know overwhelmingly we still want DOMA, the ban on homosexuals in the military that’s still overwhelmingly popular, he’s just not going there.

Of course, Barton is flat out wrong.

A CBS News poll released October 4 found that “68 percent of Americans said they support gay and lesbians’ rights to serve openly,” and that 48% of Republicans favored the repeal of the ban on openly gay soldiers, more than the 41% who opposed repeal.

13 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:54:47pm

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In the future, will the coalition of the willing be subject to DADT?

14 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:56:26pm

re: #4 000G

What’s the deal with Investor’s Business Daily, btw? I see Glenn Beck’s The Blaze often links it and apparently it gets pimped a lot in RWNJ circles.

It’s William O’Neil’s mouthpiece. Mr. O’Neil is, umm, a very outspoken conservative Republican.

15 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:58:07pm

re: #11 Amory Blaine

That was rather amusing.
Heh, silly wingnuts.

16 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 1:59:56pm

did obama ever actually say anything that could be construed by reasonable people as “apologizing for america”??

17 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:01:29pm

re: #16 engineer dog

did obama ever actually say anything that could be construed by reasonable people as “apologizing for america”??

Nope.

18 blueraven  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:04:42pm

Send In the Clowns - La Strada

Chet Baker/Van Morrison

19 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:05:23pm

re: #1 ggt

Good, there is no freakin’ reason to apologize.

I dunno. Incinerating tens of thousands of civilians is not my favorite way to win a war. Japan was licked and they (mostly) knew it. We had sunk their fleet as well as their entire merchant marine. AC Grayling gets into the weeds of strategic bombing and the racial differences in how we dealt with Germany and Japan in terms of targeting, as well as the effectivnes of deliberate terror bombing of civilian populations vs pin point bombing of munitions factorys, railway yards and the like. He concludes that the latter was far more effective (and morally defensible) than the former.

20 celticdragon  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:06:33pm

re: #16 engineer dog

did obama ever actually say anything that could be construed by reasonable people as “apologizing for america”??

No. It is another zombie myth that is accpeted at face value by the Fox News crowd and forwarded in emails.

21 simoom  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:07:52pm

Yeah, I saw this earlier and I couldn’t figure out how the RW media managed read all of that BS out from the diplomatic cable.

What I got from it is that the Japanese Vice Foreign Minister and our Ambassador were discussing a future Presidential visit to Hiroshima, something they both seem to be working on making happen, and the Japanese VFM mentioned that some in the public might have unrealistic expectations about what an American President would say at such an event, and that both governments should consider working to tamp that down before any visit.

22 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:08:12pm

re: #19 celticdragon

I dunno. Incinerating tens of thousands of civilians is not my favorite way to win a war. Japan was licked and they (mostly) knew it. We had sunk their fleet as well as their entire merchant marine. AC Grayling gets into the weeds of strategic bombing and the racisl differences in how we dealt with Germany and Japan in terms of targeting, as well as the effectivnes of deliberate terror bombing of civilian populations vs pin point bombing of munitions factorys, railway yards and the like. He concludes that the latter was far more effective (and morally defensible) than the former.

Errrr. You ever heard about Operation Ketsu-go?

23 simoom  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:13:14pm

re: #20 celticdragon

No. It is another zombie myth that is accpeted at face value by the Fox News crowd and forwarded in emails.

And we can expect to be hearing a lot more of it soon if this guy is the GOP nominee:
Image: Romney_Book_DV_20100303131233.jpg

24 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:15:07pm

re: #19 celticdragon

I dunno. Incinerating tens of thousands of civilians is not my favorite way to win a war. Japan was licked and they (mostly) knew it. We had sunk their fleet as well as their entire merchant marine. AC Grayling gets into the weeds of strategic bombing and the racisl differences in how we dealt with Germany and Japan in terms of targeting, as well as the effectivnes of deliberate terror bombing of civilian populations vs pin point bombing of munitions factorys, railway yards and the like. He concludes that the latter was far more effective (and morally defensible) than the former.

Hiroshima; headquarters for the entire southern defense district which was where we would have had to invade.

Nagasaki; Major rail center and munitions stockpiles which would have been used as a hub to transfer troops and materials in the event of invasion.

They weren’t chosen at random and they weren’t picked because they were civilian targets.

25 darthstar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:16:51pm
26 darthstar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:18:04pm

I still don’t know why congress let him bomb Hiroshima in the first place.
//

27 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:18:37pm

re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hiroshima; headquarters for the entire southern defense district which was where we would have had to invade.

Nagasaki; Major rail center and munitions stockpiles which would have been used as a hub to transfer troops and materials in the event of invasion.

They weren’t chosen at random and they weren’t picked because they were civilian targets.

I have read a very solid argument that the bombs weren’t the only reason for Japan’s surrender. Russia’s declaration and move into the region was also a big deal.

That said, yes, they were valid targets.

28 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:19:43pm

finally, some OWS polling:

Ipsos/Reuters Poll conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs. Oct. 6-10, 2011. N=1,113 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3

“How favorable or unfavorable are you towards the Occupy Wall Street protests, as far as you understand them? Are you … ?”

Very favorable 17%
Somewhat favorable 21%
Somewhat unfavorable 10%
Very unfavorable 14%
Undecided 35%
Fish 3%

29 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:20:48pm

re: #27 kirkspencer

I have read a very solid argument that the bombs weren’t the only reason for Japan’s surrender. Russia’s declaration and move into the region was also a big deal.

That said, yes, they were valid targets.

There were multiple factors leading to the surrender, as there are to any major historical event.

30 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:21:51pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There were multiple factors leading to the surrender, as there are to any major historical event.

Yes, but you never hear of them in anything but in-the-weeds military history discussions. It’s alway, “we dropped the bombs and they gave up.”

31 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:22:53pm

re: #27 kirkspencer

I have read a very solid argument that the bombs weren’t the only reason for Japan’s surrender. Russia’s declaration and move into the region was also a big deal.

That said, yes, they were valid targets.

The Manchuria campaign mounted by the Russians rolled the Japanese forces back at a phoenominal pace and at minimal Russian loses. The Japanese had no response and would have been forced back to the sea.

32 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:24:08pm

re: #30 kirkspencer

Yes, but you never hear of them in anything but in-the-weeds military history discussions. It’s alway, “we dropped the bombs and they gave up.”

Luke and Vader kill the Emperor, the entire Imperial government collapses over night, victory ensues…

People like simple stories.

33 simoom  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:26:32pm

BTW, apparently Jake Tapper thinks just putting an asterisk next to his idiotic “apologizing” title is enough of a retraction, after lazily laundering yet another BS drudge/brietbart nontroversy.

34 Linden Arden  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:32:57pm

re: #16 engineer dog

did obama ever actually say anything that could be construed by reasonable people as “apologizing for america”??

No (like others said) - but where the Nutters infer this from is a speech Obama gave where he said the US had “shown arrogance” in the past.

From that obviously true statement they constructed the apology lies.

35 Summer Seale  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:33:41pm

Charles,

I just wanted to say that so far, LGF looks great and loads really fast on Safari iOS 5 =)

36 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:38:02pm

re: #21 simoom

Yeah, I saw this earlier and I couldn’t figure out how the RW media managed read all of that BS out from the diplomatic cable.

They’re probably searching the cables for any mention of “apology” or “apologize.”

37 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:39:03pm

re: #33 simoom

BTW, apparently Jake Tapper thinks just putting an asterisk next to his idiotic “apologizing” title is enough of a retraction, after lazily laundering yet another BS drudge/brietbart nontroversy.

Tapper went off the rails too, I take it? Last I heard (and it’s been a while), he was one of the few national right-leaning journalists that hadn’t lost their damn mind…

38 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:41:06pm

The atomic bombings didn’t happen in a moral vacuum. A great deal of ink and hot air has been expended in discussions of how the Truman administration came to the decision to use the bomb.
The fact is, the decision had been made at the political level before the atomic bomb was known to be feasible. Specifically, this happened when the allies, beginning with the RAF, decided to engage in “area bombing” (the targeting of whole cities) rather than precision bombing. At the time the latter meant simply trying to hit a specific objective, there was actually very little precision to it by current standards. The RAF switched to area bombing during the winter of 1941. This was done for practical reasons: Their bombers could not operate over Germany in daylight and there was little chance of hitting anything smaller than a city at night. The USAAF started out with a policy of daylight precision bombing in Europe, and persisted with this in the belief that its heavily armed bombers could defend themselves in daylight. This proved illusory but the arrival of a long-range escort fighter, the famous P-51 Mustang, allowed it to continue. The RAF switched some of its effort to precision targets as fighter bases moved closer and technology improved, but also persisted with area bombing almost to the end of the war.
In the Pacific, the B-29 campaign against Japan started with precision attacks on specific objectives. This faced a host of problems, including Pacific weather patterns, the very long distances (more than twice as far as in Europe), and the technical immaturity of the very advanced B-29 itself. The move from China to the Marianas late in 1944 helped but it was still a 3000 mile round-trip to Tokyo. Under General Haywod Hansell the command gradually produced better results, but Washington was far from satisfied. They replaced Hansell with General “Iron Ass” Curtis LeMay in January of 1945. LeMay notoriously switched from precision daylight bombing to night area attacks, beginning with the infamous fire bombing of Tokyo on the night of March 9-10, 1945. This still ranks as the most destructive single air attack in history, including the atomic bombs.
The sacked commander Hansell had been one of the leading advocates of precision bombing in Europe and before the war, as well as in the Pacific. History has vindicated him, while LeMay is a controversial, even reviled, figure.

39 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:41:35pm

I’ve been listening to Beck on AM while driving over the last few days. This issue came up today.

My first reaction was to question what was really said because I sensed another Big Fail. And it sure was.

40 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:41:57pm

re: #19 celticdragon

I dunno. Incinerating tens of thousands of civilians is not my favorite way to win a war. Japan was licked and they (mostly) knew it. We had sunk their fleet as well as their entire merchant marine. AC Grayling gets into the weeds of strategic bombing and the racial differences in how we dealt with Germany and Japan in terms of targeting, as well as the effectivnes of deliberate terror bombing of civilian populations vs pin point bombing of munitions factorys, railway yards and the like. He concludes that the latter was far more effective (and morally defensible) than the former.

They may have known they were licked, but many of them didn’t care. As a result, Hiroshima and Nagasaki (ironically the location of the biggest Christian population in Japan at the time & smack under ground zero) were still better than Operation Downfall would have been.

41 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:42:53pm

re: #28 engineer dog

finally, some OWS polling:

Ipsos/Reuters Poll conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs. Oct. 6-10, 2011. N=1,113 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3

“How favorable or unfavorable are you towards the Occupy Wall Street protests, as far as you understand them? Are you … ?”

Very favorable 17%
Somewhat favorable 21%
Somewhat unfavorable 10%
Very unfavorable 14%
Undecided 35%
Fish 3%

Roughly speaking then:

38% Favorable
24% Unfavorable
35% Undecided
3% Drunk

42 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:44:22pm

re: #41 Gus 802

Roughly speaking then:

38% Favorable
24% Unfavorable
35% Undecided
3% Drunk

I’m somewhere between Undecided and Fish.

43 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:45:36pm

re: #41 Gus 802

Roughly speaking then:

38% Favorable
24% Unfavorable
35% Undecided
3% Drunk

Or to put it another way……….
38% ZoMgMaRxiStS……….

45 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:45:52pm

I ran some errands, had positive interactions with people and feel better

46 laZardo  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:48:33pm

re: #45 ggt

I ran some errands, had positive interactions with people and feel better

I did the “Web-based training” for my new Courtesy Clerk job at Safeway yesterday evening. The manager’s even okay with me heading back to the Philippines from the 20th-30th to go through the whole graduation march thing.

Things are going so good that I just know something really bad is going to happen. ;_;

47 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:49:36pm

re: #46 laZardo

I did the “Web-based training” for my new Courtesy Clerk job at Safeway yesterday evening. The manager’s even okay with me heading back to the Philippines from the 20th-30th to go through the whole graduation march thing.

Things are going so good that I just know something really bad is going to happen. ;_;

Keep up that positive attitude!

48 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:50:21pm
49 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:50:49pm

re: #42 ggt

I’m somewhere between Undecided and Fish.

amphibian?

50 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:51:05pm

So, I’m hearing the “we are going to bomb Iran” rumors. I really hope we aren’t and that we will let Saudi deal with them.

51 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:51:25pm

re: #49 ralphieboy

amphibian?

Lizard!

52 allegro  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:51:46pm

Then there’s the OWS opinion poll from Fox…

Fox OWS Poll

I kinda think this isn’t the result they were expecting.

53 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:52:08pm
54 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:53:22pm

OT

From the Department of Huh What?

Occupy Wall Street most popular with high earners

One final cross-tab jumped out at me—income. Take a look:

Less than $30,000: 35-27 [favorable/unfavorable]
$30,000 to $50,000: 35-28
$50,000 to $75,000: 34-40
$75,000 to $100,000: 33-35
Over $100,000: 44-31
Declined to Answer: 24-30

55 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:53:32pm

re: #53 000G

Who are the 1%?

Image: whoarethe1percent.png

[Link: motherjones.com…]

It’s the .09 Unknowns I want to know about

:)

56 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:53:44pm

re: #50 ggt

So, I’m hearing the “we are going to bomb Iran” rumors. I really hope we aren’t and that we will let Saudi deal with them.

These are just the necessary opening polemic gambits before launching the “Obama’s weak foreign policy has emboldened the Iranians” attack.

And face it, Obama’s fawning, apologetic approach to Japan is only going embolden them to attack Pearl Harbor and seize Guam and the Pillipines again…

57 laZardo  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:55:11pm

re: #53 000G

not working or deceased

deceased

So it’s more like 0.8%?

58 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:55:58pm

re: #54 Gus 802

OT

From the Department of Huh What?

Occupy Wall Street most popular with high earners

I guess I don’t understand the stats —those answering that earn over $100K are what?

59 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:56:17pm

re: #53 000G

The 31% NonFinance executives are largely a direct result of the total abrogation of shareholder responsibility and the curse of short-termism.

Shareholders don’t care about how companies are run as long as they make money for the period they are investing. No influence on board decisions, no pay restraint, no clue.

61 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:57:43pm

re: #27 kirkspencer

I have read a very solid argument that the bombs weren’t the only reason for Japan’s surrender. Russia’s declaration and move into the region was also a big deal.

That said, yes, they were valid targets.

We have heard this debate about the Dresden firebombing. Civilian targeting-Taking out the enemies war factory workers and draft pool.

62 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:57:49pm

re: #54 Gus 802

OT

From the Department of Huh What?

Occupy Wall Street most popular with high earners

No surprise.

Highest earners are Democrats, and liberal democrats at that, have been for years and years.

63 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:58:06pm

re: #58 ggt

I guess I don’t understand the stats —those answering that earn over $100K are what?

Apparently 44% of those making over 100K see OWS as favorable as opposed to 31% unfavorable. Keep one thing in mind too. A lot of people that make over 100K lost their shirts in 2008. Might be some of the motivation here.

64 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:58:38pm

re: #60 Gus 802

October 12, 2011
Chinese Struggling Less Than Americans to Afford Basics
Almost one in five Americans say they did not have enough money for food in the past year

by Rajesh Srinivasan and Bryant Ott

Adequate food and shelter in parts of China mean something entirely different that it means here.

I wish I had time to peruse the link to the Data Sheets.

65 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:59:05pm
66 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 2:59:42pm

re: #63 Gus 802

Apparently 44% of those making over 100K see OWS as favorable as opposed to 31% unfavorable. Keep one thing in mind too. A lot of people that make over 100K lost their shirts in 2008. Might be some of the motivation here.

Living in NYC requires a higher income to begin with-no?

67 laZardo  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:00:07pm

re: #63 Gus 802

Apparently 44% of those making over 100K see OWS as favorable as opposed to 31% unfavorable. Keep one thing in mind too. A lot of people that make over 100K lost their shirts in 2008. Might be some of the motivation here.

The top 1% made 350K+ if I recall.

68 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:00:46pm

re: #52 allegro

Then there’s the OWS opinion poll from Fox…

Fox OWS Poll

I kinda think this isn’t the result they were expecting.

:-)

bwahahahahaha…

HA!

69 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:00:48pm

re: #66 ggt

Living in NYC requires a higher income to begin with-no?

There’s the poll. Make of it what you will.

70 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:01:38pm

re: #60 Gus 802

October 12, 2011
Chinese Struggling Less Than Americans to Afford Basics
Almost one in five Americans say they did not have enough money for food in the past year

by Rajesh Srinivasan and Bryant Ott

I have no idea how credit is run in China. People here can be cash strapped because they signed an auto note they truly couldn’t afford and then say they have no money for food. Can that happen in China?

71 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:02:15pm

re: #54 Gus 802

OT

From the Department of Huh What?

Occupy Wall Street most popular with high earners

Let’s hear it for occupy Napa!
//

72 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:03:37pm

re: #54 Gus 802

OT

From the Department of Huh What?

Occupy Wall Street most popular with high earners

according to the link, 14% never heard of OWS.

heh

73 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:03:37pm

re: #52 allegro

Then there’s the OWS opinion poll from Fox…

Fox OWS Poll

I kinda think this isn’t the result they were expecting.

I’m confused. Which one counts as a vote for Ron Paul?

74 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:04:10pm

re: #62 wozzablog

No surprise.

Highest earners are Democrats, and liberal democrats at that, have been for years and years.

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t like 90% of Wall Street people vote Liberal and most of them give money to the Dems.. Well really..Isn’t most of NY liberal? So why protest Wall Street? This seems pretty ironic to me…

75 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:06:21pm

re: #74 HoosierHoops

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t like 90% of Wall Street people vote Liberal and most of them give money to the Dems.. Well really..Isn’t most of NY liberal? So why protest Wall Street? This seems pretty ironic to me…

Wall street people love Obama privately - he gives them everything they want, they make out they hate him in public to get more free stuff.

It’s not a people problem, it’s a system problem on wall street. No one wants to be the first trader to give up some advantage or another- which is why Government/SEC/disinfectant of light is needed.

76 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:06:47pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: States can impose a religious test if they want to

Um… No.

States Rights, IMHO, is an important aspect of our “Separation of Powers” concept. We are going to lose more and more of it because of these idiots. Centralized Federal Power is as dangerous as a one-party system.

Can’t we just give Texas to the the Religious Whackos of every flavor and be done with both?

78 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:08:47pm

I found the cutest collection of Lizard pendants while looking for xmas presents for my mom. Darned if I can find the website now. I thought I bookmarked it, but nooooooooo.

79 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:08:54pm

re: #74 HoosierHoops

Most of NY is not liberal, yes it is a blue state but has several red counties etc. Yeah there are wall st. types who are liberal etc but the major players tend to fund conservatives/republicans.

80 laZardo  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:09:53pm

re: #75 wozzablog

Wall street people love Obama privately - he gives them everything they want, they make out they hate him in public to get more free stuff.

It’s not a people problem, it’s a system problem on wall street. No one wants to be the first trader to give up some advantage or another- which is why Government/SEC/disinfectant of light is needed.

You mean less government. Businesses need to be free to make their own profits and fail without any government bailout help.

81 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:10:12pm

re: #79 Dreggas

Most of NY is not liberal, yes it is a blue state but has several red counties etc. Yeah there are wall st. types who are liberal etc but the major players tend to fund conservatives/republicans.

Upstate New York………….. is a Red State(neck) demographic.

82 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:10:54pm

re: #76 ggt

States Rights, IMHO, is an important aspect of our “Separation of Powers” concept. We are going to lose more and more of it because of these idiots. Centralized Federal Power is as dangerous as a one-party system.

Can’t we just give Texas to the the Religious Whackos of every flavor and be done with both?

The problem is the States Right folks constantly try to use it as a bludgeon to force people in line. Back in the slavery days, the Slave States constantly would say their slave laws took priority over the Free State laws. Conversely, if the Federal Government sided with them on an issue, they had no problem cheering for the merits of a strong Federal system.

Look at it this way. Federal Defense of Marriage act, good. State’s choosing to allow gay marriage, bad. What happened to the State’s Rights argument now?

83 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:11:57pm

re: #70 ggt

I have no idea how credit is run in China. People here can be cash strapped because they signed an auto note they truly couldn’t afford and then say they have no money for food. Can that happen in China?

Cost of living is much lower. Larger family support. Stuff like that.

84 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:14:20pm

Uh oh.

Suspect in Seal Beach salon shooting reportedly wore body armor

KTLA reported that the suspect was wearing body armor and had a cache of weapons.

85 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:15:00pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The problem is the States Right folks constantly try to use it as a bludgeon to force people in line. Back in the slavery days, the Slave States constantly would say their slave laws took priority over the Free State laws. Conversely, if the Federal Government sided with them on an issue, they had no problem cheering for the merits of a strong Federal system.

Look at it this way. Federal Defense of Marriage act, good. State’s choosing to allow gay marriage, bad. What happened to the State’s Rights argument now?

For me, the State’s Right’s argument was lost over education and voting rights. Separate but Equal and “grandfather” laws showed how States Rights were being used to limit, not further freedom.

I don’t have any answers

86 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:17:07pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The problem is the States Right folks constantly try to use it as a bludgeon to force people in line. Back in the slavery days, the Slave States constantly would say their slave laws took priority over the Free State laws. Conversely, if the Federal Government sided with them on an issue, they had no problem cheering for the merits of a strong Federal system.

Don’t forget, slave states were all in favor of the Fugitive Slave Act, by which the Federal Government forced free states to return runaway slaves…

87 laZardo  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:17:17pm

re: #83 Gus 802

Cost of living is much lower. Larger family support. Stuff like that.

And despite the near-slave conditions, people do pay quite generously to have stuff “Made In China.”

88 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:17:17pm

@NancyPelosi Nancy Pelosi
235 House Republicans just voted against our #ChinaCurrency bill which would create at least 1 million #jobs #NoJobsGOP

89 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:19:14pm

re: #88 Gus 802

@NancyPelosi Nancy Pelosi
235 House Republicans just voted against our #ChinaCurrency bill which would create at least 1 million #jobs #NoJobsGOP

Quite simply - they don’t care.

90 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:20:53pm

re: #89 wozzablog

Quite simply - they don’t care.

You would think they’d support this bill. They’re nothing but talk. I mean remember Romney’s words last night?

91 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:21:27pm

I have to feed the dogs.

Have a great evening all!

93 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:25:23pm

And likely another “legal” gun owner.

94 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:26:12pm

re: #74 HoosierHoops

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t like 90% of Wall Street people vote Liberal and most of them give money to the Dems.. Well really..Isn’t most of NY liberal? So why protest Wall Street? This seems pretty ironic to me…

Where’d you hear that 90% are liberal? That would surprise me if it were true.

And you’d be surprised how many conservatives live here in ‘liberal’ New York.

95 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:28:26pm

Pressed About His Plan To Raise Taxes On Food, Herman Cain Says Poor People Should Just Buy Used Goods

Cain claimed that under 999, “prices don’t go up” because “consumers have the option to stretch their dollar because of buying used goods instead of new.” Cain failed to explain how this solution would apply to food, which families might have difficulty buying “used” unless they rummage through garbage. Clearly he considers relying almost entirely on secondhand items for everyday life a perfectly reasonable idea for poor families.

96 jvic  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:28:56pm

re: #62 wozzablog

No surprise.

Highest earners are Democrats, and liberal democrats at that, have been for years and years.

That may well be part of it.

IMHO those who legitimately earn a lot of money, e.g. successful entrepreneurs or people who have climbed the corporate ladder the hard way, won’t be too happy about what they see on Wall Street.

For that matter, even traders and hedge funders who don’t make money unless their customers do can’t be happy watching the huge bonuses paid to those whose primary skill is sequestering profits and passing on losses to their customers—and to taxpayers.

97 Gus  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:29:19pm

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pressed About His Plan To Raise Taxes On Food, Herman Cain Says Poor People Should Just Buy Used Goods

Nothing like the flavor of used beef and chicken.

//

98 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:30:11pm

re: #97 Gus 802

Nothing like the flavor of used beef and chicken.

//

Day-old sushi! You can get it very cheap.
//

99 HoosierHoops  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:31:24pm

re: #94 makeitstop

Where’d you hear that 90% are liberal? That would surprise me if it were true.

And you’d be surprised how many conservatives live here in ‘liberal’ New York.

I heard it somewhere.. Like I said..Correct me if I’m wrong..
I suppose I could Google how many elected Republicans are in the NYC Government..Could Be an interesting Stat…

100 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:31:39pm

re: #97 Gus 802

Nothing like the flavor of used beef and chicken.

//

“2 girls, 1 cup” is a hell of a plan to combat poverty.

101 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:32:20pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

After reading the article you linked to, He states that while the fed can’t impose a religious test, The States, might (Idaho forbids it) be able to, but do not and will not impose such a test. He then goes on to state that since the two afore mentioned entities can not or will not apply such a test, it is up to the individual voter to apply it.

“But notice very clearly: while the federal government cannot use a religious test to screen candidates for public office, the people who go to the polls certainly can. The federal government cannot use a religious test, but voters can, and they should.”

As much as I hate to say it, He is right. The voters can and do have the right to apply any test they want to a candidate they may wish to vote for. Be it Religion, Race, Sex, or whatever. That is just the way it is.

102 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:33:01pm

re: #94 makeitstop

Where’d you hear that 90% are liberal? That would surprise me if it were true.

And you’d be surprised how many conservatives live here in ‘liberal’ New York.

there are eight million people living in the city limits of nyc. those working on wall st, or living on 5th avenue or Park avenue, or on Staten Island are the most likely to be the only true and original wall st republicans, and have been since forever

they were the ones who in the 1930s had their servants cut articles about “that man” (roosevelt) out of the morning papers so that their digestion would not be impaired at breakfast

what you are unlikely to find anywhere in nyc is fundies and kkk

103 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:34:21pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“2 girls, 1 cup” is a hell of a plan to combat poverty.

You now have internet “naughty step” time.

104 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:36:12pm

Yo, KT! This will maybe make you feel better.

Image: ows-ahole.jpg

105 blueraven  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:39:11pm

re: #92 Gus 802

6 killed, 3 injured in California hair salon shooting, police say

That is a horrifying story. And unfortunately, these shooting sprees seem to be more and more commonplace.

106 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:51:05pm

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pressed About His Plan To Raise Taxes On Food, Herman Cain Says Poor People Should Just Buy Used Goods

Buying used is good for durable and hard goods, especially if you’re looking for a good deal, but on food? TP’s snark aside, fuck Cain for even broaching that idea.

107 TedStriker  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:51:34pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“2 girls, 1 cup” is a hell of a plan to combat poverty.

*retch*

108 Kragar  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 3:55:42pm

re: #107 talon_262

*retch*

You gonna eat that?

109 allegro  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 4:06:41pm

re: #106 talon_262

Buying used is good for durable and hard goods, especially if you’re looking for a good deal, but on food? TP’s snark aside, fuck Cain for even broaching that idea.

Kinda makes ya wonder what they put on their pizzas don’t it.

110 sagehen  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 7:36:39pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The problem is the States Right folks constantly try to use it as a bludgeon to force people in line. Back in the slavery days, the Slave States constantly would say their slave laws took priority over the Free State laws. Conversely, if the Federal Government sided with them on an issue, they had no problem cheering for the merits of a strong Federal system.

Look at it this way. Federal Defense of Marriage act, good. State’s choosing to allow gay marriage, bad. What happened to the State’s Rights argument now?

States’ Rights people need to realize that the 14th Amendment significantly narrows the scope of what the 10th used to cover.

Everything the first 10 amendments says the feds can’t do; the 14th says the states can’t either, and that it’s the feds’ constitutional obligation to make sure they don’t.

111 sagehen  Wed, Oct 12, 2011 7:41:20pm

re: #106 talon_262

Buying used is good for durable and hard goods, especially if you’re looking for a good deal, but on food? TP’s snark aside, fuck Cain for even broaching that idea.

And as was pointed out on O’Donnell’s show this evening… how many people buy new houses? Don’t most of us purchase and live in “used” homes?

112 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:14:24am

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“2 girls, 1 cup” is a hell of a plan to combat poverty.

Sounds like a modest proposal to me…


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