House Republicans Pushing ‘Let Women Die’ Bill

Misogyny
Wingnuts • Views: 30,225

Let no one ever say that the Republican Party is trying to hide their true agenda, and it’s not “creating jobs.” The plain fact is that regulating women’s reproductive systems is far more important to the atavistic GOP, as they demonstrate by trying to pass a disgusting, inhuman bill that would allow hospitals to refuse care to women who need abortion-related services: Dem: House GOP ‘misogynist’ for bringing up abortion bill.

Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) on Thursday charged House Republicans of misogynous motives in bringing up a bill that seeks to limit federal funding for abortion.

“What my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are attempting to do is misogynist,” Speier said on the House floor. “It is absolutely misogynist.”

“This bill goes to the farthest extreme in trying to take women down, not just a peg, but to take in shackles to some cave somewhere,” Speier said. “Basically what this bill would do is say that any hospital could decline to provide services to one class of people in this country, and that one class of people are pregnant women.” …

Speier recounted how she was pregnant and miscarrying, and said she would have been in serious jeopardy if this bill were in place at that time. “If I had to go from hospital to the next trying to find one emergency room that would take me in, who knows if I would even be here today,” she said.

Jump to bottom

363 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:11:15am

///Pro life!

2 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:12:57am

Is there any level of simple-minded callousness and facetious cruelty that is beneath today's GOP and the religious right howler monkeys who make up its base?
/purely rhetorical

3 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:13:15am

For people who keep preaching the sanctity of life, they're awfully quick to endorse anything to make sure people die suffering.

4 Kronocide  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:14:16am

I'm sure this bill will create jobs, reduce the deficit, and pay off the debt.

5 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:14:58am

re: #2 Shiplord Kirel

Is there any level of simple-minded callousness and facetious cruelty that is beneath today's GOP and the religious right howler monkeys who make up its base?
/purely rhetorical

So you're not behind their "choke a puppy for Jesus" event?

6 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:16:24am

re: #4 BigPapa

I'm sure this bill will create jobs, reduce the deficit, and pay off the debt.

"LOOK! A HUGE DISTRACTING THING!!!"

Works every time.

7 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:19:28am

Well, of course. We all know the single most important issue facing the country today is what women do with their bodies. Nothing fucking new there.

8 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:21:11am

GOP: "We've got your jobs right here."

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:22:53am

I went to check to see if any congressmen from my state are co-sponsors, and then I remembered; I don't currently have a congressman.

10 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:23:07am

Can you say pricks?

11 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:24:21am

re: #9 EmmmieG

I went to check to see if any congressmen from my state are co-sponsors, and then I remembered; I don't currently have a congressman.

Would you like mine? I'll throw in 2 senators and a potted kudzu.

12 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:24:44am

re: #8 publicityStunted

Hallelujah!

13 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:25:44am

re: #11 Decatur Deb

Would you like mine? I'll throw in 2 senators and a potted kudzu.

We're working on getting one back. It will just take a couple of elections.

Hopefully, the next one will be sane.

14 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:26:50am

Here's a recycled comment from Kragar's Page on this:

2 wrenchwench Wed, Oct 12, 2011 12:01:18pm

I know a woman who got an abortion at a Catholic hospital because it was ectopic and it would have killed her. There was no fuss about it at all. They were interested in really, actually, protecting life. They were not interested in making political or moral points at the expense of a life.

Unlike the worthless, inhumane people who promote bills like this.

15 Ming  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:27:17am

I'm a long-time pesca-vegetarian, and I can't even imagine the mindset that would deny medical care to someone who needs it, especially if they're right there in the emergency room.

It's even harder to imagine what kind of person would deny medical care to a pregnant woman. This is of course a very fragile condition for both mother and baby. There is no "extra time" to perform a litmus test of the mother's political views about abortion.

As the post mentions, in theory, any possible problem in a pregnancy could easily trigger suspicions that the woman wanted to terminate the pregnancy. If a pregnant woman, in great pain, blurts out something that sounds less than 100% enthusiastic about the pregnancy, this will be enough to put her under "political suspicion".

The "religious right" reminds me more and more of the Soviet Union every day.

16 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:28:04am

re: #14 wrenchwench

Here's a recycled comment from Kragar's Page on this:

Doctors/anyone involved would probably be excommunicated if that got out. Or, at least, potentially could be, based on recent history.

17 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:28:53am

re: #16 Simply Sarah

Doctors/anyone involved would probably be excommunicated if that got out. Or, at least, potentially could be, based on recent history.

Certainly in Arizona. This happened in California.

18 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:29:36am

re: #17 wrenchwench

Certainly in Arizona. This happened in California.

Why do they even care about Catholics? They're not even real Christians.
///

19 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:30:25am

re: #15 Ming

I'm a long-time pesca-vegetarian, and I can't even imagine the mindset that would deny medical care to someone who needs it, especially if they're right there in the emergency room.

It's even harder to imagine what kind of person would deny medical care to a pregnant woman. This is of course a very fragile condition for both mother and baby. There is no "extra time" to perform a litmus test of the mother's political views about abortion.

As the post mentions, in theory, any possible problem in a pregnancy could easily trigger suspicions that the woman wanted to terminate the pregnancy. If a pregnant woman, in great pain, blurts out something that sounds less than 100% enthusiastic about the pregnancy, this will be enough to put her under "political suspicion".

The "religious right" reminds me more and more of the Soviet Union every day.

See, that's the issue! Once they have an abortion, they aren't pregnant anymore. And since we all know that the only purpose for women is to make babies, that would mean they were taking away the one thing that woman could do.

20 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:31:29am

re: #17 wrenchwench

Certainly in Arizona. This happened in California.

I suppose the local bishop would make a difference in how he'd act on it, but I'm pretty sure Rome itself couldn't care less about which state it happened in.

21 Kronocide  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:32:12am

No Hope, No Cash, No Jobs.....

22 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:32:54am

re: #16 Simply Sarah

Doctors/anyone involved would probably be excommunicated if that got out. Or, at least, potentially could be, based on recent history.

It isn't necessarily that rigid. Decades ago we used an abortion scenario as an example of theological gray areas. The Jesuits had very sophisticated arguments when the life of the mother was at risk and the procedure was focused on the mother's physiology instead of the termination of the pregnancy. See 'casuistry'.

23 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:33:55am

re: #15 Ming

The "religious right" reminds me more and more of the Soviet Union every day.

Actually, abortion rates were extremely high in the Soviet Union, because access to contraception was extremely low. The GOP also wants to reduce access to contraception, at the same time they restrict access to abortion, which we know from history will result in a higher death rate from dangerous abortion procedures.

24 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:35:40am

re: #23 wrenchwench

Actually, abortion rates were extremely high in the Soviet Union, because access to contraception was extremely low. The GOP also wants to reduce access to contraception, at the same time they restrict access to abortion, which we know from history will result in a higher death rate from dangerous abortion procedures.

Punishment for violating God's plan, obviously.

25 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:35:40am

I wish great strength to Rep. Jackie Speier. This is why it is important to elect women to office.

26 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:36:13am

re: #22 Decatur Deb

It isn't necessarily that rigid. Decades ago we used an abortion scenario as an example of theological gray areas. The Jesuits had very sophisticated arguments when the life of the mother was at risk and the procedure was focused on the mother's physiology instead of the termination of the pregnancy. See 'casuistry'.

Well, OK, but I tend to expect more rational thought and less blind reliance on pure and rigid doctorate from a Jesuit than I would from most parts of the Church, especially from the current leadership.

27 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:36:17am

This Dem. Says:
All you professional libs who plan to vote GOP 'cause Obama isn't giving you your way fast enough, better not cry or say a damn thing when you send your unplanned, unvaccinated, toothless, wheezing children to the mines.
Just tell 'em to thank Jayzus for the lunch you gathered for them from the dumpster in the back of the 7-11.
// not really

Now pardon me while I try to duct tape my head back together.

28 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:36:45am

re: #25 wrenchwench

I wish great strength to Rep. Jackie Speier. This is why it is important to elect women to office.

But how can she honor her husband and have children if she's holding elected office?

29 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:38:12am

re: #25 wrenchwench

I wish great strength to Rep. Jackie Speier. This is why it is important to elect women to office.

As long as we make sure to exclude the crazy ones. Those can be worse than the men, since they hide behind "But I'm a woman and I feel this way".

30 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:38:18am

re: #25 wrenchwench

I wish great strength to Rep. Jackie Speier. This is why it is important to elect women to office.

Amazing woman. Friend of mine was telling me her story. She was at Jonestown when she was with the then Congressman who was killed. Her predecessor, Tom Lantos was one of my personal heroes as well.

31 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:38:46am

Nancy Pelosi calls abortion bill deadly

The bill, called the Protect Life Act, would ban the federal funding for abortions and bar women from using tax subsidies from the health care law to buy insurance that cover abortion – except in cases of rape, incest or the health of the mother. It would also ensure that health-care providers are protected if they believe that performing abortion procedures clashes with their personal beliefs.

Under this bill, when the Republicans vote for this bill today, they will be voting to say that women can die on the floor of health care providers … it’s just appalling,” Pelosi told reporters on Thursday. “I can’t even describe to you the logic of what they are doing today.”

Pelosi and other Democrats dismissed the bill as a “waste of time” and criticized House GOP leadership for bringing up a bill that isn’t directly related to jobs and the economy – particularly since the abortion legislation has a dim chance in the Democratically-controlled Senate.

32 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:39:59am

re: #26 Simply Sarah

Well, OK, but I tend to expect more rational thought and less blind reliance on pure and rigid doctorate from a Jesuit than I would from most parts of the Church, especially from the current leadership.

It really depends on the training of the decision makers and the unique details of the case. Here is an old discussion that is probably still 'operative'.

[Link: books.google.com...]

Almost everything is much more complex than it seems on the intertubes.

33 Ming  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:45:35am

By the standards of the proposed Congressional bill, Sarah Palin might have been placed under suspicion of wanting to terminate her pregnancy. By her own account, in her book, after her water broke, she got on a plane in Texas, had a long flight to Alaska, then got on a second plane and flew to Wasilla, where she (finally) went to the hospital and gave birth.

In the nightmare future world of the proposed Congressional bill, a "good Republican citizen", observing Palin's behavior in the Texas airport, could have summoned the police, placed Palin under arrest, placed her in restraints so she couldn't harm the fetus, and whisked her off to the nearest hospital in Texas. Then, the baby would have been placed under the care of the state, until a political review board determined that Ms. Palin was not trying to harm the fetus by getting on a plane after her water broke. "No, she wasn't trying to endanger the fetus; she's just plain crazy."

34 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:47:09am

re: #33 Ming

By the standards of the proposed Congressional bill, Sarah Palin might have been placed under suspicion of wanting to terminate her pregnancy. By her own account, in her book, after her water broke, she got on a plane in Texas, had a long flight to Alaska, then got on a second plane and flew to Wasilla, where she (finally) went to the hospital and gave birth.

In the nightmare future world of the proposed Congressional bill, a "good Republican citizen", observing Palin's behavior in the Texas airport, could have summoned the police, placed Palin under arrest, placed her in restraints so she couldn't harm the fetus, and whisked her off to the nearest hospital in Texas. Then, the baby would have been placed under the care of the state, until a political review board determined that Ms. Palin was not trying to induce a miscarriage by getting on a plane after her water broke.

Sarah Palin? Didn't her kid used to be on some dancing show?

35 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:47:13am

re: #32 Decatur Deb

It really depends on the training of the decision makers and the unique details of the case. Here is an old discussion that is probably still 'operative'.

[Link: books.google.com...]

Almost everything is much more complex than it seems on the intertubes.

Well, I'm not saying that and I'm not attempting to pretend I'm an expert in Canon law (Far from it). All I can really go by is the fact that I know of cases in the last few years, both in the U.S. and other countries, where excommunication has resulted from actions taken to perform an abortion with the idea of saving the life of the mother.

Quite honestly, I don't really care much for the specific details and exceptions and such that may or may not make performing the action an excommunicable offence, since I'm pretty much done with the discussion once we need to even debate that point.

36 Kronocide  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:47:30am

If pregnant women want support from the GOP they should carry AR-15's.

37 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:49:21am

re: #35 Simply Sarah

Well, I'm not saying that and I'm not attempting to pretend I'm an expert in Canon law (Far from it). All I can really go by is the fact that I know of cases in the last few years, both in the U.S. and other countries, where excommunication has resulted from actions taken to perform an abortion with the idea of saving the life of the mother.

Quite honestly, I don't really care much for the specific details and exceptions and such that may or may not make performing the action an excommunicable offence, since I'm pretty much done with the discussion once we need to even debate that point.

For my mind, they can excommunicate whoever they like (it's not the big deal it's made out to be). The issue is what they make legally available.

38 Firstinla  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:50:14am

re: #11 Decatur Deb

Would you like mine? I'll throw in 2 senators and a potted kudzu.

Would you like mine? I'll throw in 2 senators, a potted kudzu, AND a 1 lb. bag of Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee beans.

39 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:51:08am

re: #38 Firstinla

Would you like mine? I'll throw in 2 senators, a potted kudzu, AND a 1 lb. bag of Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee beans.

How tall is the kudzu?

40 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:52:31am

re: #39 Decatur Deb

How tall is the kudzu?

How tall do you want it to be?

41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:53:14am

re: #11 Decatur Deb

Would you like mine? I'll throw in 2 senators and a potted kudzu.

I'll take the kudzu. You can keep the Senators.

42 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:53:29am

re: #9 EmmmieG

I went to check to see if any congressmen from my state are co-sponsors, and then I remembered; I don't currently have a congressman.

no congressmen are available at the moment since prices are cheap and so they've all been snapped up by multinational corporations

check back later to see if we have any in stock in your price range

43 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:53:48am

re: #40 kirkspencer

How tall do you want it to be?

Has to fit under the powerline.

44 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:53:50am

re: #27 OhNoZombies!

This Dem. Says:
All you professional libs who plan to vote GOP 'cause Obama isn't giving you your way fast enough, better not cry or say a damn thing when you send your unplanned, unvaccinated, toothless, wheezing children to the mines.
Just tell 'em to thank Jayzus for the lunch you gathered for them from the dumpster in the back of the 7-11.
// not really

Now pardon me while I try to duct tape my head back together.

That goes double for the ones who stay home on election day. Think of all the other political offices they're not helping on.

45 Kronocide  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:54:34am

Oh jeez, here we go.

I am the 53%.

46 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:54:54am

re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll take the kudzu. You can keep the Senators.

You'd pass on Senator Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III?

47 Ming  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:55:30am

re: #27 OhNoZombies!

This Dem. Says:
All you professional libs who plan to vote GOP 'cause Obama isn't giving you your way fast enough, better not cry or say a damn thing when you send your unplanned, unvaccinated, toothless, wheezing children to the mines.
Just tell 'em to thank Jayzus for the lunch you gathered for them from the dumpster in the back of the 7-11.
// not really

Now pardon me while I try to duct tape my head back together.

Good point! Obama has not for one day has a "normal presidency" where the opposition party wasn't at his throat. I sometimes disagree with the President, but I very much prefer him to any Republican alternative. I would love to see him get a second term.

48 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 11:59:07am

re: #45 BigPapa

Oh jeez, here we go.

I am the 53%.

messieurs koch are panicking since OWS is gaining in popularity and the TP is sinking

those right wing journaljismists shoulda never mentioned all the 20 y/o 'hippie chicks'...

49 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:00:45pm

re: #45 BigPapa

Oh jeez, here we go.

I am the 53%.

No dumbasses, you're part of the 99% because your bosses are only paying you for 45 hours of 60 hours of work.

50 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:00:53pm

re: #45 BigPapa

Oh jeez, here we go.

I am the 53%.

Sixty hours of work for 45 hrs pay? Kid needs a union.

51 JAFO  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:00:54pm

re: #43 Decatur Deb

Has to fit under the powerline.

Just the power lines or the cable and phone lines too?

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:01:58pm

re: #23 wrenchwench

Actually, abortion rates were extremely high in the Soviet Union, because access to contraception was extremely low. The GOP also wants to reduce access to contraception, at the same time they restrict access to abortion, which we know from history will result in a higher death rate from dangerous abortion procedures.

Just means that abortion was the most common form of birth control there

Conservatives want the worst of both worlds...

53 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:03:21pm

re: #37 Decatur Deb

For my mind, they can excommunicate whoever they like (it's not the big deal it's made out to be). The issue is what they make legally available.

Of course, of course. It is more that, to me, it reflects the rather anti-women views of the Catholic Church as an institution. That's all.

54 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:04:33pm

re: #50 Decatur Deb

Sixty hours of work for 45 hrs pay? Kid needs a union.

lol

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:07:38pm

re: #50 Decatur Deb

Sixty hours of work for 45 hrs pay? Kid needs a union.

you see, these people look on it as a matter of pride instead of seing as the degree to which they are being exploited. That is another example of the "trickle-down Stockholm syndrom"

56 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:07:55pm

PJM has more pics of antisemitism at the Occupy LA protests. I won't link but it's the usual stuff.

57 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:08:23pm

Time for garden work--growing our own food is starting to look more and more useful. BBL

58 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:09:33pm

53% - hilarious. "My family insurance costs are outrageous, but I don't complain."

Actually, you just did.

Morans.

59 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:09:41pm

re: #45 BigPapa

Oh jeez, here we go.

I am the 53%.

The title of that blog is so mind-numbingly stupid. They don't even realize how polarizing they come across.

We are that half of America that is not made up of parasites!

Both the "We are the 53%" and the "We are the 99%" are crudely making use of class distinctions to make a point. But at least the latter are a lot more inclusive.

60 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:11:01pm

I think there must be a cultural atavism out there: from the old calvinist days when we were taught that as long as we were working or praying we weren't sinning, so that is how you spent the bulk of your waking hours.

It is still ingrained in our culture: two weeks' vacation when most of Europe has 4-6 weeks vacation, etc, and an attitude that anyone who only works 40 hours a week is some kind of slacker.

61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:11:13pm

re: #46 Decatur Deb

You'd pass on Senator Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III?

I say I say I say yesss.

62 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:13:19pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

PJM has more pics of antisemitism at the Occupy LA protests. I won't link but it's the usual stuff.

Why not link it?:
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

63 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:13:35pm

re: #60 ralphieboy

I think there must be a cultural atavism out there: from the old calvinist days when we were taught that as long as we were working or praying we weren't sinning, so that is how you spent the bulk of your waking hours.

It is still ingrained in our culture: two weeks' vacation when most of Europe has 4-6 weeks vacation, etc, and an attitude that anyone who only works 40 hours a week is some kind of slacker.

I think your analysis of the symptom is correct, but I think the cause is simpler: in the US, if you don't work pretty hard, you tend to lose your job and your life is very quickly shitty.

In order to come to terms with this without losing patriotic faith (why are Europeans better off than we are?) it is necessary to construct a belief in the moral rightness of working hard for little reward. Otherwise you just get all sad.

64 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:14:24pm

re: #59 000G

The title of that blog is so mind-numbingly stupid. They don't even realize how polarizing they come across.

Both the "We are the 53%" and the "We are the 99%" are crudely making use of class distinctions to make a point. But at least the latter are a lot more inclusive.

We are the 53% that pay taxes!!

GE, Pfizer, and Time-Warner are just a bunch of pot smoking, jobless slackers!

65 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:14:36pm

re: #63 iossarian

Nationalism is always subaltern.

66 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:16:45pm

Depressing charts.

Here's What The Wall Street Protesters Are So Angry About

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:17:51pm

re: #46 Decatur Deb

You'd pass on Senator Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III?

I, however, must admit; that is a fantastic Southern Senator name. He looks more like Arte Johnson than Foghorn Leghorn, I must admit.

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:19:12pm

re: #63 iossarian

I think your analysis of the symptom is correct, but I think the cause is simpler: in the US, if you don't work pretty hard, you tend to lose your job and your life is very quickly shitty.

because they know they can get away with it. they are doing their damndest to get around it in europe, but the labor movement is still a concept here and is fighting the erosion of free time with tooth and nail.

69 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:19:24pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We are the 53% that pay taxes!!

GE, Pfizer, and Time-Warner are just a bunch of pot smoking, jobless slackers!

Frigging hippies with their offshore accounts and loopholes.

70 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:20:05pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

PJM has more pics of antisemitism at the Occupy LA protests. I won't link but it's the usual stuff.

And again, what I see there is the Larouche cult, and some pretty obvious Ron Paul supporters. In other words, not really "lefties" at all, just freaks. Looks like zombie found the corner they hang out in, and is working it for all its worth.

71 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:23:01pm

Erick Erickson (ewerickson)'s complaint and photo go a long way toward demonstrating why a lot of salt is required when using that site.

Seriously, he has three jobs and a house he can't sell. If you didn't know who he was that'd sound terrible. (see this at delong's site for a bit more.)

Of course, there's the fellow who "self-educated" to get off welfare and food stamps after his arm was crippled; who doesn't seem to get the irony of the fact he needed those. Nope, he got off, everyone else using them is wrong.

There's the fake Ben Franklin quote. Yes, it's fake. It's a spin off the quote usually attributed to Tytler which was actually created in an editorial in the Oklahoman in the 1950s. (Why do we tolerate this democracy thing, anyway; it always seems the plebians are unhappy about their lots in life.)

72 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:23:14pm

Yesterday rode PATH home and there were a bunch of OWS protesters on board the car - they weren't hippie chicks or hippies, but college kids - and a few were wearing frat/sorority gear. They were carrying signs including ones that mimicked MTA service change signs.

People who are coming to the protests are more than the usual suspects (and they are there in spades to be sure). The problems are real, the concerns are real, and recourse is real limited because government and businesses can turn a blind eye to what is going on.

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:23:21pm

re: #70 Charles


If you are attending an OWS demonstration with the intent of finding examples of ridiculously indefensible moonbattery you do not have to look to hard. but that is not the point.

Well, I guess it is the point to the PJM folks and their friends: to find them and then present them as an example of what OWS is "really" about...

74 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:24:02pm

Heh, NPR has picked up on the 999-Sim City bit.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

75 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:25:51pm

I wish all the "quit whining" folks would... quit whining.

76 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:26:10pm

re: #52 ralphieboy

Just means that abortion was the most common form of birth control there

Conservatives want the worst of both worlds...

Exactly.

77 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:27:02pm

re: #74 wlewisiii

Heh, NPR has picked up on the 999-Sim City bit.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

Who knew that Cain was a gamer. I've been of the mindset that 9-9-9 sounds more like a pizza deal tho. And I see today that he admits he has no idea how it will work yet he has no problem making his catchphrase to the voters. And his economist isn't an economist. And his picks for the chairman of the Fed are confidential.

78 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:27:14pm

re: #72 lawhawk

This is the poster I am referring to.

79 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:28:20pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

And he's already taking that flat tax and carving exemption and change after exemption and change.

No plan survives first contact, but that's an epic collapse.

80 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:28:30pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

Who knew that Cain was a gamer. I've been of the mindset that 9-9-9 sounds more like a pizza deal tho. And I see today that he admits he has no idea how it will work yet he has no problem making his catchphrase to the voters. And his economist isn't an economist. And his picks for the chairman of the Fed are confidential.

Well, if it was Rudy, it probably would have been a 9-11 tax plan.

81 Firstinla  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:31:33pm

re: #66 negativ

It's interesting how clear the disparity between the 1% and the 99% when there are graphs available. Thanks for posting that link.

83 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:33:36pm

I agree that a lower tax rate might encourage people to put their effort into creating wealth instead of hiding it from the tax man, but that is something that can only work in a healthy economy.

Just like fresh air and excercise are great for keeping healthy, but not if you are running a 103° fever...

84 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:34:19pm

re: #81 Firstinla

It's interesting how clear the disparity between the 1% and the 99% when there are graphs available. Thanks for posting that link.

Image: incomeshare.jpg

85 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:34:21pm

re: #73 ralphieboy

If you are attending an OWS demonstration with the intent of finding examples of ridiculously indefensible moonbattery you do not have to look to hard. but that is not the point.

Well, I guess it is the point to the PJM folks and their friends: to find them and then present them as an example of what OWS is "really" about...

look, the hippies are coming for the jews, with their patchouli and their hand drums, whatever shall we do, everybody panic

86 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:34:38pm

re: #70 Charles

And again, what I see there is the Larouche cult, and some pretty obvious Ron Paul supporters. In other words, not really "lefties" at all, just freaks. Looks like zombie found the corner they hang out in, and is working it for all its worth.

I took a look at Zombie's pics in San Fran. Looked like about a dozen loons and one naked guy. Nothing too surprising. Not sure who took the LA pics, probably Ringo.

87 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:36:44pm

I am the 53%.

i never saw so many people proudly declaring how happy they are to be exploited

88 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:39:09pm

For those of you who have ever used a Unix, love it or hate it, Dennis Ritchie has died. I've a page up with the NPR obit.

89 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:39:42pm

I assume the 9% national sales tax would be in addition to the state sales taxes that are already in place? I think Cain's plan is bad economics. We have always had a strong consumer economy and that is what arguably a large part of why we came out on top over the Soviets in the Cold War and a high sales tax is not going to make people want to buy products. Heck as mentioned Cain himself doesn't know how this is going to work. It's a pipe dream frankly and I must say with some skepticism that he chose 9-9-9 because it's catchy and stays in voters' minds.Also what is he planning to do about the deficit? Get rid of social programs, public education, etc? His talk on defense shows that he has no plans to consider cutting that so the debt's gotta be fixed somehow. Doing that would piss of the average American. Cain's tax plan seems to only be about helping those who are in Cain's economic group which isn't the average American and no Herman I don't hate it because I am jealous of you and rich people.

90 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:39:42pm

re: #87 engineer dog

I am the 53%.

i never saw so many people proudly declaring how happy they are to be exploited

It really is extraordinary. "I work hard for little pay but I don't blame anybody - my lack of success is entirely down to my own failure to do better in life."

91 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:40:44pm

re: #88 wlewisiii

For those of you who have ever used a Unix, love it or hate it, Dennis Ritchie has died. I've a page up with the NPR obit.

rip

every C pgmr has a copy of the famous 'Kernigan & Ritchie' book on their desk

92 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:40:57pm

re: #87 engineer dog

I am the 53%.

i never saw so many people proudly declaring how happy they are to be exploited

Bootstraps!!1!11!ELEVENTY

93 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:41:14pm

I think the thing that the opposition hates more than Obama, is the idea of hope and change, and that we, the people, should have the audacity to stake a claim in how the country is run. He actually announced that we had to help him -- the horror!! Left and right had to work together to make a more perfect union. The powerful don't want change or unity or innovation, because nothing is broken as far as they're concerned.

So they jingle the shiny things to make the president seem ineffectual, and to steer populist anger in the wrong direction.
You know the saying:
If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

I hope people are starting to wake up, 'cause I'm getting nervous.

94 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:41:44pm

re: #87 engineer dog

I am the 53%.

i never saw so many people proudly declaring how happy they are to be exploited

No kidding. It's like thank you sir may I have another. The 53% is for taxes right? Typical right wing arrogance about how the poor and lower classes don't pay taxes. Shit I am not even that big on the 99% movement or OWS but you can't bitch about the government and then act like big business is blameless.

95 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:42:05pm

re: #90 iossarian

It really is extraordinary. "I work hard for little pay but I don't blame anybody - my lack of success is entirely down to my own failure to do better in life."

"I'm a wage slave and love it!! WINNING!!11!1!"

96 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:43:00pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

I took a look at Zombie's pics in San Fran. Looked like about a dozen loons and one naked guy. Nothing too surprising. Not sure who took the LA pics, probably Ringo.

Zombie credits Ringo in his post.

97 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:44:11pm

re: #91 engineer dog

rip

every C pgmr has a copy of the famous 'Kernigan & Ritchie' book on their desk

I haven't needed it in years but I still have my first edition.

98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:44:30pm

I looked at the charts... the mass exportation of jobs has made American companies fabulously wealthy. When they started moving the manufacturing offshore was when the profitability of the companies and the CEO and management compensations seemed to skyrocket.

I don't see that reducing CEO and other management compensation will trickle down to the workers; it will just make the companies more fabulously wealthy.

I don't know how we retract (folks in China, India, South Korea, etc have to eat also), but I see the retraction of jobs back to America as the only long term solution to our problems.

Do I sound like Pat Robertson? I really don't want to sound like Pat Robertson. Or an idiot? I don't mind so much, just stereotyping myself.

99 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:44:35pm

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"I'm a wage slave and love it!! WINNING!!11!1!"

"I was banging seventy kilogram rocks for shit pay because that's how I roll."

100 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:44:47pm

“Wages? Do you want to be wage slaves? Answer me that. No, of course not. But what makes wage slaves? Wages! Which is why I propose to cut yours entirely”

(Groucho) Marx

101 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:45:34pm

NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll Oct. 6-10, 2011

"Have you seen, read, or heard the news coverage about sit-ins and rallies in New York City and other major cities around the country with people protesting about the influence Wall Street and corporations have on government?" If yes: "... From what you know about these protests do you tend to support or tend to oppose these protests, or do you not have an opinion either way?"

Tend to Support 37%
Tend to Oppose 18%

CNN/ORC Poll. Sept. 23-25, 2011

"We'd like to get your overall opinion of some people in the news. As I read each name, please say if you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of these people -- or if you have never heard of them. The Tea Party movement."

Favorable 28%
Unfavorable 53%

astroturf won't grow no matter how much you water it, but i didn't think it would turn brown

102 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:46:05pm

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative

103 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:46:50pm

"I get paid peanuts to clean rich people's shit out of office lavatories, and I had to buy my own uniform, but I wouldn't want it any other way because I can afford to eat out at Denny's every other week."

#quitwhining

104 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:47:39pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative

kiss of death

105 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:48:46pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative

He said the same about McCain. He brings up my governor McDonnell though. I think the odds are good of him being the running mate. McDonnell is a much more disciplined candidate than Palin was. Doesn't have any experience on the foreign relations front though but I don't see that being an issue since the Republicans are going to focus on domestics anyhow

106 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:49:10pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

Who knew that Cain was a gamer. I've been of the mindset that 9-9-9 sounds more like a pizza deal tho. And I see today that he admits he has no idea how it will work yet he has no problem making his catchphrase to the voters. And his economist isn't an economist. And his picks for the chairman of the Fed are confidential.

Didn't you hear? He's bringing the Noid out of retirement at Domino's to use him as Secretary of State!
/

107 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:50:11pm

re: #106 oaktree

Didn't you hear? He's bringing the Noid out of retirement at Domino's to use him as Secretary of State!
/

Caesar from Little Caesars at Defense, Papa John at Attorney General, and Hungry Howie at FDA.

108 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:50:34pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative

And he conveniently forgets the 2008 campaign where he was pushing for Romney, saying that Huckabee was not a real conservative beyond his abortion stance and John McCain was "Juan McAmnesty".

It's like they forget recording devices or the internet exist.

To quote The I.T. Crowd: "I'm sorry. Are you from the past?"

109 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:51:35pm

re: #108 ArchangelMichael

Rush does not have to worry about the past with people who cannot tell the 16th century from the 18th

110 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:51:46pm

re: #89 HappyWarrior

It's seen as a way to shift tax burdens on to those who consume such items.

If you make food and clothing exempt from such a tax, but tax all services (no exceptions), you might be able to generate sufficient revenue to offset a significant percentage now coming in via the income tax without seriously harming the economics of lower and middle class taxpayers. But I really doubt that it would drop the rate all the way down to 9%. And Cain's proposal as it was initially announced would give an immediate hit to all Americans, regardless of income level - and disproportionately affecting the lower and middle class.

Thing is - that if no one in Congress takes any action about the tax code, after 2013, the pre-2001 rates apply, meaning that the top rate goes back to 39.6% (that's not much different than the proposal for a millionaire's surtax of 5.9% that got swatted down when it boils down to the bracket rates - which currently stands at 35%; 40.9 versus 39.6?) Democrats merely have to block any further changes to the tax code between now and then and they get the additional revenues when the law expires - inaction and gridlock would contribute to increased tax revenues.

The GOP solution, instead of tax hikes or increasing taxes on capital gains, or realizing that tax cuts will not cut the deficit, is to proffer an option on a tax return to allow people to pay more to the IRS if they so choose.

It's laughable that someone would see that as a solution. Yet, there it is.

111 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:51:46pm

re: #108 ArchangelMichael

And he conveniently forgets the 2008 campaign where he was pushing for Romney, saying that Huckabee was not a real conservative beyond his abortion stance and John McCain was "Juan McAmnesty".

It's like they forget recording devices or the internet exist.

To quote The I.T. Crowd: "I'm sorry. Are you from the past?"

Yeah his big candidate was the cure for insomnia himself, Mr. Fred Thompson.

112 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:52:16pm

"I can't afford asthma medicine for my kids despite working 2 jobs, 60 hours a week, and obviously they will never be able to go to college without taking on crippling debt, but it's all worth it because democrat party. "

#thisisamerica

113 webevintage  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:53:06pm

re: #71 kirkspencer

Erick Erickson (ewerickson)'s complaint and photo go a long way toward demonstrating why a lot of salt is required when using that site.

Isn't one of his "jobs" a gig with CNN?

114 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:53:30pm

re: #100 ralphieboy

“Wages? Do you want to be wage slaves? Answer me that. No, of course not. But what makes wage slaves? Wages! Which is why I propose to cut yours entirely”

(Groucho) Marx

Which leads into one of the wonderful defensive arguments offered by a certain faction in the 1850s - that wage slaves were so much worse off than their workers since they'd be fired or simply dumped if they got ill or simply old.

115 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:53:46pm

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, some jobs are coming back - the UAW and Ford and GM reached deals where they'd bring back some thousands of jobs that were done elsewhere and going to factories that were previously shuttered or would expand work at existing facilities (additional shifts).

It's a drop in the bucket, but it is a start.

116 TedStriker  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:53:49pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative

When the Maha Rushie, co-head of the TPGOP media (with Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch), says you're a RINO, you're boned.

117 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:53:49pm

re: #110 lawhawk

The GOP solution, instead of tax hikes or increasing taxes on capital gains, or realizing that tax cuts will not cut the deficit, is to proffer an option on a tax return to allow people to pay more to the IRS if they so choose.

It's laughable that someone would see that as a solution. Yet, there it is.

Especially since, uh, I'm pretty sure this is already an option for people.

118 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:57:14pm

Romney may very well be the nominee but he's going to I think have the same problem McCain did and that's getting the base out to vote for him and accept him as a "real conservative." He'll pander but will it work? Romney's not going to beat Obama on simply not just being Obama as any Democratic Party supporter who remembers 2004 ccan attest. Romney's also got the religious thing which can't be overlooked.

120 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:57:38pm

re: #113 webevintage

Isn't one of his "jobs" a gig with CNN?

And another is the radio gig he took over from Herb Herman Cain.

Cain made $167K. Even if Erick Son Of Erick went in for $150K, he still has no room to cry about how horrible his life is.

OTOH, maybe he just hates the fact that he's him. I would.

121 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:58:00pm

Job cuts hit the NYT again. 20 jobs in the newsroom, and others via voluntary buyouts and not filling open positions. Weakness in business sector a factor. It's the first staffing reduction since the 2009 bloodletting when about 8% of the newsroom got the axe.

122 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:58:12pm

re: #111 HappyWarrior

Yeah his big candidate was the cure for insomnia himself, Mr. Fred Thompson.

Ahh yes Fred Thompson... the 2008 campaign's version of the draft of Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell.

After Thompson was out, Rush all but endorsed Romney and spent hours on the phone with callers trying to talk them out of voting for Huckabee, the "Liberal in Conservatives' Clothing". I remember this well because at the time I was, unfortunately, in agreement with him. Having a hyper-partisan right-wing girlfriend does things to you.

123 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:59:09pm

re: #110 lawhawk

The GOP solution, instead of tax hikes or increasing taxes on capital gains, or realizing that tax cuts will not cut the deficit, is to proffer an option on a tax return to allow people to pay more to the IRS if they so choose.

It's laughable that someone would see that as a solution. Yet, there it is.

It actually works in Switzerland: that is because your tax returns are private, but the actually amount you hve paid is a matter of public record. And there have been cases of people wishing to inflate their perceived wealth (for reasons of status, prestige or for business purposes) by paying more taxes than they had to.

But there are a lot of things that work in Switzerland that work nowhere else. My favorite is the "ZüriSack", which is how you pay for trash removal: to get it picked up, you have to buy a ZüriSack, a small 5-gallon bag for your non-recyclables.

It is rather expensive, over $1.50 a pop, but if you are conscientious about composting and recycling, you don't go through very many of them.

In nearly any other country in the world, a system like that would just encourage people to litter.

124 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 12:59:33pm

Autumn Leaves, Eva Cassidy?

Just for an aaah.

126 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:00:43pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Test of Wisconsin Voter ID law led to lines so long, people left without voting

Mission accomplished.
/

127 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:00:51pm

re: #122 ArchangelMichael

Ahh yes Fred Thompson... the 2008 campaign's version of the draft of Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell.

After Thompson was out, Rush all but endorsed Romney and spent hours on the phone with callers trying to talk them out of voting for Huckabee, the "Liberal in Conservatives' Clothing". I remember this well because at the time I was, unfortunately, in agreement with him. Having a hyper-partisan right-wing girlfriend does things to you.

Hahaha that's a good one, Ryan Leaf or Jemarcus Russell. Really at the time I knew some conservatives and they were just tickled pink by Fred and Fred's candidacy. So I watched to see what all the fuss was about and I had to laugh because I honestly think 2000 Al Gore and John Kerry were more charismatic. But yeah I remember the Huckabee is a liberal stuff because they hated that he was somewhat to the left on economics.

128 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:01:00pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Test of Wisconsin Voter ID law led to lines so long, people left without voting

Only irresponsible inner-city voters though, so who cares?

129 webevintage  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:02:06pm

re: #121 lawhawk

Job cuts hit the NYT again. 20 jobs in the newsroom, and others via voluntary buyouts and not filling open positions. Weakness in business sector a factor. It's the first staffing reduction since the 2009 bloodletting when about 8% of the newsroom got the axe.

Any chance David Brooks and Ross Douchehat got the ax? I could see them cutting costs there. Douthat's latest fantasy "if Mccain had won the election" column was redonkulous.

130 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:02:19pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Test of Wisconsin Voter ID law led to lines so long, people left without voting

Driving voter turnout down. That's exactly what Walker and many elected Republicans want but will never admit that they do. Unless you try Scott again pretending to be David Koch.

131 webevintage  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:02:50pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Test of Wisconsin Voter ID law led to lines so long, people left without voting

I think that is what Republicans would call a feature, not a bug.

132 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:02:56pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush Limbaugh: Romney Is Not A Conservative

From Rush's email two days ago:

The Republican Nominee Will Have My Full Support: Anyone who's not Obama will be backed on the EIB Network, but until the primary is decided, expect ol' El Rushbo to keep speaking out for the ideal.

...and:

Caller Begs the Host to Endorse a Candidate: Then what? Sorry, this audience is not mind-numbed robots

From Rush's email one day ago:

"I do not endorse candidates until I'm ready. If I felt comfortable endorsing someone right now, I would." -Rush

I haven't received today's yet. If he doesn't want Romney, then I do.

133 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:03:08pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Test of Wisconsin Voter ID law led to lines so long, people left without voting

we could end this discussion, and make the issue of illegal immigration a lot simpler by issuing a national ID card, to serve for voters, for registering a car, opening a bank account or even getting a job...but we won't.

Until then we are going to come up with a plethora of half-assed solutions that turn out to create more problems than they solve, all tweaked to serve one political agenda or another.

134 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:03:34pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Test of Wisconsin Voter ID law led to lines so long, people left without voting

Can't have fraud if no one can vote, right?
/

135 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:04:18pm

re: #133 ralphieboy

we could end this discussion, and make the issue of illegal immigration a lot simpler by issuing a national ID card, to serve for voters, for registering a car, opening a bank account or even getting a job...but we won't.

Until then we are going to come up with a plethora of half-assed solutions that turn out to create more problems than they solve, all tweaked to serve one political agenda or another.

Why do you hate State's Rights?

136 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:04:26pm

re: #134 Simply Sarah

Can't have fraud if no one can vote, right?
/

What leads to voter fraud? Voting? Which is why I am going to abolish the right!

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:04:41pm

re: #115 lawhawk

I know. Thank goodness. A drop is how it starts.

But, as I said, every job brought back here will set the developing world back. I'm not interested in starving the (insert the nationality of your choice here) worker either.

I don't have any solution.

138 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:04:58pm

re: #136 ralphieboy

What leads to voter fraud? Voting? Which is why I am going to abolish the right!

Exactly!

139 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:07:08pm

re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Why do you hate State's Rights?

Right now, Great Britain is the only country in Europe that does not require a national ID or a passport in order to vote, register an address (something else that would really put a lid on illegal immigrants in this country), open a bank account, register children for school, etc.

I am not necessarily advocating such a step, inasmuch as it has no chance of ever being implemented, I am just pointing out all the problems we have decided to put up with in order *not* to have one.

140 Kronocide  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:08:23pm

Harriett Hills Stinson, 85, a prominent member of the wealthy San Francisco family that founded Hills Bros. Coffee, says it took a push by GOP conservatives to cut funding for family planning and abortion services to move her to reveal a long-held personal secret: She once had an illegal abortion.

Read the whole thing...

141 Gus  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:09:24pm

re: #56 Killgore Trout

PJM has more pics of antisemitism at the Occupy LA protests. I won't link but it's the usual stuff.

And this is official policy of Occupy LA or is really just extremists on the periphery? I found a typical anti-Semite trolling the boards at Occupy LA and he is being confronted:

there is no room
Submitted by nancy4436 on Fri, 10/07/2011 - 4:20pm

There is no room for anti-semitic/racist remarks in our movement. If you want to join us, please leave your bias home.

Careful friends, don't let dogmatic organizations, like Answer hijack the Occupy LA. Let the direction of our future be decided through discussion among all.

there is definitely no room
Submitted by followthemoney on Fri, 10/07/2011 - 4:45pm

There is definitely no room for anti-semitc/racist remarks in our movement. Leave your racism far far away from this movement

The link is here and obviously this Scott Mollett is an obsessed anti-Semite. He even hangs out at white supremacist websites. Go figure.

142 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:17:37pm

re: #140 BigPapa

Reminds me of this:

On 6 June 1971, at the initiative of the journalist and feminist Alice Schwarzer, several hundred famous and ordinary women followed suit in the German magazine ‘Stern’. On 12 March 1974, a German medical journal published the testimonies of 329 West German doctors who carried out or had carried out abortions. These plucky women risked arrest, trial, conviction and prison. The no less plucky doctors also risked losing their right to practise medicine, and so their livelihoods. Their actions lent mass and momentum to the public debate, and thus contributed to the lifting of the abortion ban in 1975.

Alice Schwarzer has since gone on to write for Germany's far-right tabloid Bild that coincidentally also runs advertisements for prostitutes, but hey, gotta make a living…

143 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:17:58pm

re: #136 ralphieboy

What leads to voter fraud? Voting? Which is why I am going to abolish the right!

You're doing good today!

Handled wage slavery and voting fraud already.

144 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:19:39pm

Senate GOP is unveiling their own jobs bill. It would include a complete overhaul of the tax code, and a repeal of the HCR reform (PPACA of 2010). Maximum individual and corporate rates would be 25%, tax code simplified, and create incentives for multinationals to repatriate foreign earnings to the US. They claim the changes would be revenue neutral. McCain is the prime sponsor.

More to come....

145 sagehen  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:19:45pm

re: #123 ralphieboy

But there are a lot of things that work in Switzerland that work nowhere else. My favorite is the "ZüriSack", which is how you pay for trash removal: to get it picked up, you have to buy a ZüriSack, a small 5-gallon bag for your non-recyclables.

It is rather expensive, over $1.50 a pop, but if you are conscientious about composting and recycling, you don't go through very many of them.

In nearly any other country in the world, a system like that would just encourage people to litter.

That's kind of how Seattle works -- every house is entitled to one free bag a month, you can buy as many more as you want, and they'll only pick up the "authorized" bags.

And the recyclable bins they pick up for free.

146 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:21:31pm

re: #129 webevintage

I only hope that Nate Silver is spared - his political insights and polling analysis is top notch.

147 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:21:45pm

re: #141 Gus 802

The link is here and obviously this Scott Mollett is an obsessed anti-Semite. He even hangs out at white supremacist websites. Go figure.

Sounds like a classic recruiter. I'm not surprised in the least. We saw it on indymedia shortly after it went up and definitely after 9/11, and I saw it on many liberal boards I was on in the 00s. Typically around 9-11, as well.

148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:22:01pm

re: #144 lawhawk

Revenue neutral? Uh... anybody looked at the country's checkbook lately?

149 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:22:13pm

re: #133 ralphieboy

we could end this discussion, and make the issue of illegal immigration a lot simpler by issuing a national ID card, to serve for voters, for registering a car, opening a bank account or even getting a job...but we won't.

Until then we are going to come up with a plethora of half-assed solutions that turn out to create more problems than they solve, all tweaked to serve one political agenda or another.

I remember libertarians, LP or otherwise, used to have kittens whenever anyone talked about a National ID card. I think the only explanation why it was "bad" that didn't devolve into conspiracy theories involving the Knights Templar or Bilderberg Group boiled down to: "The database can be abused by [insert government agency here]."

Back then I said "ok, that could be bad", but now... really? The government already has enough on everyone to make you miserable if they want to.

A whole plethora of problems could be taken care of with the card in exchange for being vigilant about abuse of the system.

150 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:23:00pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Revenue neutral is a relative term, it wouldn't increase revenues over what the IRS/CBO or whoever is scoring is taking in under the current tax system.

151 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:23:39pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fischer: "If Anybody Is Out There Saying Something Is A Cult, It's The LDS Church!"

/facepalm

With every new outrageous statement by that guy I think that him being an actually influential figure in American politics is some kind of weird joke that I am not getting, that I need to have more context to because I just don't get the punchline here.

152 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:23:43pm

re: #144 lawhawk

Senate GOP is unveiling their own jobs bill. It would include a complete overhaul of the tax code, and a repeal of the HCR reform (PPACA of 2010). Maximum individual and corporate rates would be 25%, tax code simplified, and create incentives for multinationals to repatriate foreign earnings to the US. They claim the changes would be revenue neutral. McCain is the prime sponsor.

More to come...

See, I just have a very hard time believing that. Why? Because to remain revenue neutral (Neutral to what? Current? Projected? Is this including the tax cuts set to expire or not?) it would either need to somehow make it so everyone still pays the same amount or some people would need to pay more while others pay less (Or magic pixie dust. That's always an option).

Of course, maybe it would simply change how much different people and groups paid. In that case, I'm sure it would be lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy while higher taxes for everyone else. I've seen this song and dance before.

153 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:24:14pm

re: #149 ArchangelMichael

I remember libertarians, LP or otherwise, used to have kittens whenever anyone talked about a National ID card. I think the only explanation why it was "bad" that didn't devolve into conspiracy theories involving the Knights Templar or Bilderberg Group boiled down to: "The database can be abused by [insert government agency here]."

Back then I said "ok, that could be bad", but now... really? The government already has enough on everyone to make you miserable if they want to.

A whole plethora of problems could be taken care of with the card in exchange for being vigilant about abuse of the system.

Because if there is one thing the US treats seriously, its proper data security...

[maniacal cackling ensues]

154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:24:45pm

re: #149 ArchangelMichael

We just should get some type of implant in our foreheads.

You say you want some Revelation; Well you know
We all want to end the world...

155 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:28:32pm

Anita Perry: “God Was Speaking to Me” that Rick Should Run for President

About contemplating a run for president in 2010, "God was already speaking to me," she said, "but he [Rick] didn't want to hear it."

But, she went on, "he was hearing from other people, too." In the first of several biblical references, she added, "he needed to see the burning bush.

Her husband prayed, Perry insisted. "He threw that fleece out there twice to make sure it came back with what he needed to do."

156 Gus  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:28:51pm

re: #154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We just should get some type of implant in our foreheads.

Number 9.

157 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:29:04pm

re: #154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We just should get some type of implant in our foreheads.

Oh yeah forgot about that one. The people howling about the Mark of the BEAST ZOMG!!!11

158 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:30:20pm

re: #152 Simply Sarah

Since we're dealing with federal budgets and CBO scoring, pixie dust is a definite consideration. I've yet to see the whole proposal (I got email notifying me of the pending legislative proposal), so when I see it, I'll post what I find.

159 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:31:24pm

re: #155 jaunte

Anita Perry: “God Was Speaking to Me” that Rick Should Run for President

She went on to add "UGIOU UELELE KAWAFDE!" as she danced around with snakes. A Perry staffer added "THE SPIRIT IS UPON HER!"

160 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:31:58pm

Hello lizards.

Just got back from a funeral. I don't think I will be working tonight. I'm not in the mood.

161 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:32:15pm

re: #157 ArchangelMichael

Oh yeah forgot about that one. The people howling about the Mark of the BEAST ZOMG!!!11

Youtube Video
162 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:32:20pm

re: #155 jaunte

Anita Perry: “God Was Speaking to Me” that Rick Should Run for President

Psy. 1: Excuse me, what are you doing?
Marge: Oh, I was just praying to God that you'll find me sane.
Psy. 1: I see. And this "God", is he in this room right now?
Marge: Oh, yes. He's kind of everywhere.
[psychologists exchange disapproving looks]

163 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:34:17pm

re: #158 lawhawk

Since we're dealing with federal budgets and CBO scoring, pixie dust is a definite consideration. I've yet to see the whole proposal (I got email notifying me of the pending legislative proposal), so when I see it, I'll post what I find.

Granted, I'm more than a bit disillusioned at this point. Right now, I'm not sure I could take a GOP-introduced bill to rename a library without trying to figure out how it was trying to fuck me over.

164 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:36:07pm

The Real Voter Fraud Scandal

these laws are a solution searching for a problem. Conservatives have long bemoaned the menace of voter impersonation, but the evidence for this threat is nonexistent. George W. Bush's Justice Department spent years ferreting out voter fraud and managed to prosecute not one voter for impersonating another. "Out of the 300 million votes cast [between 2002 and 2007] federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for voter fraud," Rolling Stone reported. A 2007 study by the Brennan Center found the instances of voter fraud to be literally infinitesimal. "You're more likely to get killed by lightning than commit in-person voter fraud," says the Brennan Center's Michael Waldman. Which only makes sense: That thousands of people are casting illegal votes in others' names while evading determined detection (always managing to choose people who weren't going to vote anyway) doesn't pass the smell test.

Knock away the spurious reasons for the push to restrict voting and you're left with bare-knuckled partisanship. "There has never been in my lifetime, since we got rid of the poll tax and all the Jim Crow burdens on voting, the determined effort to limit the franchise that we see today," former President Bill Clinton told a group of young political activists over the summer. He's right, and it must be fought at every level.

165 iossarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:37:06pm

re: #159 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

She went on to add "UGIOU UELELE KAWAFDE!" as she danced around with snakes. A Perry staffer added "THE SPIRIT IS UPON HER!"

Ha. Why won't fundies behave in ways that God approved of back in the old days?

Far too much kneeling in pews, far too little dancing round fires in jangly costumes.

166 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:40:13pm

re: #165 iossarian

Ha. Why won't fundies behave in ways that God approved of back in the old days?

Far too much kneeling in pews, far too little dancing round fires in jangly costumes.

Anyone who does not stand, bow, kneel and sit in the proper order is A FILTHY HEATHEN AND WILL BURN IN HELLFIRE FOR ETERNITY! THAT'S IN THE BIBLE AND YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH THAT BECAUSE ITS SCIENCE!

167 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:40:54pm

New documentary film explores shifting debate over evolution

The film, No Dinosaurs in Heaven, follows Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, down the Colorado River as she refutes creationist theories that the Grand Canyon is only a few thousand years old and shows evidence of the biblical flood.

It also charts the story of its director, Greta Schiller, as she studies to become a science teacher and is assigned a biology professor who refuses to teach evolution because of his religious beliefs.
...
A recent poll conducted by the Public Religion Research Institute and Religion News Service found that 38 percent of Americans believe "humans and other living things have existed in their present form since creation." In a recent CNN poll, more than 40% of respondents said evolution was probably or definitely false.

168 recusancy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:41:26pm

Why is "Soros" trending on twitter? Did our checks not get sent out on time again?

170 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:42:42pm

re: #163 Simply Sarah

Granted, I'm more than a bit disillusioned at this point. Right now, I'm not sure I could take a GOP-introduced bill to rename a library without trying to figure out how it was trying to fuck me over.

Don't be silly. The only bill the GOP would introduce that had anything to do with a library is how to shut it down.

171 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:43:02pm

re: #168 recusancy

Why is "Soros" trending on twitter? Did our checks not get sent out on time again?

Worse.
Instead of a 10% pay increase we only got a 9% pay increase.
I'm now broke!

172 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:43:19pm

re: #70 Charles

And again, what I see there is the Larouche cult, and some pretty obvious Ron Paul supporters. In other words, not really "lefties" at all, just freaks. Looks like zombie found the corner they hang out in, and is working it for all its worth.

Checked it out. 3/4 were anti-semetic, but I think this one was pro:

“It’s Yom Kippur: Banks should atone!" At least this Jew approves.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:43:20pm

re: #64 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We are the 53% that pay taxes!!

GE, Pfizer, and Time-Warner are just a bunch of pot smoking, jobless slackers!

I'm always amazed at people who assume that anyone who disagrees with them DOESN'T pay income tax.

174 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:43:20pm

re: #167 jaunte

New documentary film explores shifting debate over evolution

Yep. Americans are hugely creationist/anti-evolution. I know my mother, at least, once, years ago, told me something along the lines of "I just don't see how it could (fully) explain things". I was surprised, to say the least.

175 dragonfire1981  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:43:34pm

Official 2012 GOP campaign theme music:

Youtube Video
176 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:43:58pm

re: #169 Varek Raith

Kentucky GOP Official: ‘I Feel Like Going Taliban’ On Wall Street Protesters

Now imagine how the TP would have reacted if a Dem official wrote I feel like going Stalin on them(the TP). What a tool though.

177 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:44:07pm

LIVE FROM ALEX JONES' LIVING ROOM:

BREAKING: Obama & Israel to Launch War with Iran!!

Youtube Video

Within two weeks, he says.

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:45:07pm

re: #85 WindUpBird

look, the hippies are coming for the jews, with their patchouli and their hand drums, whatever shall we do, everybody panic

Yeah. What kind of a moron would think a populist movement would ever turn anti-Semitic, or worry about it at all?

179 dragonfire1981  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:45:16pm

re: #169 Varek Raith

Kentucky GOP Official: ‘I Feel Like Going Taliban’ On Wall Street Protesters

Frank elaborated: ”The Taliban, as they see it is resisting occupation. I am resisting the Occupiers and very proud to be a 1%’er. I figured that the irony would be lost on most of the dummies in Occupation Nation who oppose the war in Afganistan because they see us as occupiers. I happen to oppose the war too but for highly different grounds. PS I am proud of our troops and have a son in harm’s way.”

Uhhh, Frank old buddy, could it be they oppose because we've been there for TEN years, spent billions on it and have no current exit strategy?

180 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:45:27pm

re: #174 Simply Sarah

It's hard to see how anyone who knows anything about geology could take that view, but people are quite creative about defending their beliefs.

181 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:45:36pm

re: #177 000G

Youtube Video
182 recusancy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:46:08pm

#ows protester signs

183 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:46:47pm
So what about the bottom 120 million of us? Those surveyed said that ideally, the bottom 40 percent would own 20 to 25 percent of all wealth. When asked to estimate the share of wealth actually owned, the collective guesses were between 8 and 10 percent.

Reality: 0.3 percent.

184 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:46:52pm

re: #182 recusancy

#ows protester signs

Marxist.
;)

185 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:47:13pm

re: #180 jaunte

It's hard to see how anyone who knows anything about geology could take that view, but people are quite creative about defending their beliefs.

The anti-evolution lobby has a really effective PR machine, whereas most scientists and such haven't done the best job explaining it. I mean, in a neutral debate or, say, court, science wins easily. That's just not how public opinion works, though.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:47:27pm

re: #90 iossarian

It really is extraordinary. "I work hard for little pay but I don't blame anybody - my lack of success is entirely down to my own failure to do better in life."

No, they never say that. They're viciously proud of how they're managing without having to borrow from anyone, and they see themselves as both big successes, and smarter than anyone out there.

187 recusancy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:47:27pm

re: #184 Varek Raith

Marxist.
;)

They need a good macing and clubbing.

188 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:48:37pm

re: #168 recusancy

Why is "Soros" trending on twitter? Did our checks not get sent out on time again?

His defeat at Washington DC showed our enemy one thing. He knows the heir of Reagan has come forth. Conservatives are not as weak as he supposed. There is courage still, strength enough to perhaps challenge him. Soros fears this. He will not risk the peoples of conservatism uniting under one banner. He will raze Wall Street to the ground before he sees a Republican return to the White House. If the beacons of Twitter are lit, #TLOT must be ready for war.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:49:27pm

re: #112 iossarian

"I can't afford asthma medicine for my kids despite working 2 jobs, 60 hours a week, and obviously they will never be able to go to college without taking on crippling debt, but it's all worth it because democrat party. "

#thisisamerica

One of the details I find most entertaining is the ones where the people insist that they haven't borrowed a penny to go to 'an affordably priced state school', because they're working their way through college with no help from their parents.

I suspect that most of these people are drug dealers.

190 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:50:10pm

re: #181 Varek Raith

[Video]

My favorites are still

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
Youtube Video
191 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:50:31pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

One of the details I find most entertaining is the ones where the people insist that they haven't borrowed a penny to go to 'an affordably priced state school', because they're working their way through college with no help from their parents.

I suspect that most of these people are drug dealers.

Well, I certainly haven't borrowed a penny for my education.

I borrowed hundred dollar bills!

192 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:51:06pm

re: #175 dragonfire1981

Official 2012 GOP campaign theme music:

[Video]

In rebuttal to the GOP

Youtube Video
193 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:51:36pm

re: #172 Iwouldprefernotto

Checked it out. 3/4 were anti-semetic, but I think this one was pro:

“It’s Yom Kippur: Banks should atone!" At least this Jew approves.

Agreed.

194 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:51:45pm

re: #190 000G

My favorites are still

[Video]

HULKSMASH!!!
OHYEAH!!!!

195 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:51:56pm

re: #155 jaunte

Anita Perry: “God Was Speaking to Me” that Rick Should Run for President

I read that Rick and Anita Perry sleep in separate beds.

Maybe he's already experienced the burning bush.

196 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:52:22pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

One of the details I find most entertaining is the ones where the people insist that they haven't borrowed a penny to go to 'an affordably priced state school', because they're working their way through college with no help from their parents.

I suspect that most of these people are drug dealers.

There were many of the kids I knew, whose parents declared them "independent" (I was a truly independent student) so they could get financial aid, but still gave them money under the table each month.

Weird society we live in, where people will lie and cheat about everything to claim they are self-made.

197 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:54:37pm

re: #182 recusancy

#ows protester signs

Why does the protester hate rich people? ;)
Seriously though that graph is a good underscoring of why I whole heartily agree with those who want to reform the system.

198 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:55:17pm

re: #195 BongCrodny

I read that Rick and Anita Perry sleep in separate beds.

Maybe he's already experienced the burning bush.

I can't upding that. When you see a mysterious upding on a comment of yours that clearly doesn't deserve it, it's for this one.

/

199 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:56:16pm

re: #179 dragonfire1981

Frank elaborated: ”The Taliban, as they see it is resisting occupation. I am resisting the Occupiers and very proud to be a 1%’er. I figured that the irony would be lost on most of the dummies in Occupation Nation who oppose the war in Afganistan because they see us as occupiers. I happen to oppose the war too but for highly different grounds. PS I am proud of our troops and have a son in harm’s way.”

Uhhh, Frank old buddy, could it be they oppose because we've been there for TEN years, spent billions on it and have no current exit strategy?

Nah can't be. It's because they hate America.

200 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:56:51pm

Bachmann accidentally calls for an increase on top marginal rate:

Clueless Quote of the Day
“For my tax plan, I take a page out of one of my great economists that I admire, Ronald Reagan. And under my tax plan I want to adopt the Reagan tax plan. It brought the economic miracle of the 1980s. Why not go with what works? I want to reinstitute the Reagan tax model from the 1980s.”—Michelle Bachmann.

201 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:57:54pm

President Obama Punches Wall Street Banker in Face

Youtube Video
202 lostlakehiker  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:58:08pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

For people who keep preaching the sanctity of life, they're awfully quick to endorse anything to make sure people die suffering.

A bit extreme, maybe?

203 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:58:46pm

re: #200 jaunte

Bachmann accidentally calls for an increase on top marginal rate:

Ronald Reagan is an economist? This statement though is more of the Reagan fantasy that he rode in on an unicorn and decreed tax cuts for all and then rode magically in to the rainbow. It was then he told M.r Gorbachev to tear down this wall which Mikhail did.

204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:59:18pm

re: #197 HappyWarrior

I'm a one trick pony on this.

The timelines also appear to intersect with the birth of the World Wide Web.

The global economy was truly born. The big companies were here, exported all the work out; kept the bosses here.

Alas, trying to find a worker for 40 cents a day will be tough though.

205 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:59:26pm

re: #203 HappyWarrior

Economist/fireman/cowboy.

206 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:59:28pm

re: #202 lostlakehiker

A bit extreme, maybe?

No. They are, that comment isn't.

207 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:59:29pm

re: #202 lostlakehiker

A bit extreme, maybe?

Hmmm...Nope, I was right the first time.

208 Amory Blaine  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 1:59:49pm

re: #125 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Test of Wisconsin Voter ID law led to lines so long, people left without voting

My state is in serious trouble.

209 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:01:00pm

re: #164 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Sorry, I'm less impressed. If low voter turnout helped neither party would we even have this debate? Is it a coincidence the same party that is helped by a large turnout insists we must not prove ID for votes?
How much voter fraud does it take to matter? It's so easy to say "no problem, move along now, nothing to see here".
Florida-disputed chads etc.
Sanchez v Dornan-Voter fraud found, but not enough to overturn.
Or consider this
Many 2010 Election Results Too Close To Call
Greg Jarboe, November 3, 2010
Or this
Or these in Wiki
Or this on double votes in Ohio
[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]
[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

But to protect the Democratic side of the isle, we must make sure we never, ever fix these things. Voter ID with generous assistance to those without ID is a workable solution distorted by partisans in both parties. Screw em all. It's a game to both parties, not an effort at accuracy.

210 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:03:11pm

OK, I got today's Limbaugh email.

Subject line: GOP Elite Declares War on Tea Party

"The Republican establishment is doing all it can to force a nominee on the Tea Party that they don't want. They're trying to limit the presidential choice between a hard-leftist, socialist Democrat hell-bent on taking down the country and a fairly liberal Republican who doesn't want to rock the boat." -Rush

He's un-endorsing Romney.

Also:

Anti-Semitism at Wall Street Protests: These are the people the Democrats are embracing.

Yes, there's anti-semitism on display there. No, I don't see anyone embracing them, let alone Democrats.

211 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:03:16pm

"Seventy-seven percent of the people in this country are opposed to taxpayer funding for abortions."
Shouldn't this COMMANDING majority of taxpayers decide how tax dollars are spent??

212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:03:49pm

Later.

213 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:04:06pm

re: #211 Beltboy

"Seventy-seven percent of the people in this country are opposed to taxpayer funding for abortions."
Shouldn't this COMMANDING majority of taxpayers decide how tax dollars are spent??

Link?

214 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:04:43pm

re: #213 wrenchwench

it's in the story. just click the top of the page.

215 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:05:11pm

re: #211 Beltboy

"Seventy-seven percent of the people in this country are opposed to taxpayer funding for abortions."
Shouldn't this COMMANDING majority of taxpayers decide how tax dollars are spent??

And none of those 77% are pregnant with a child of rape.

Ever heard of the Hyde amendment?

216 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:05:23pm

McCain refuses to be left behind in the Derpstakes:

“We have a plan and we’ll have almost all of the Republican Senators behind it. And if [President Obama] wants to bring up a piece of his proposed plan, we’ll bring up a piece of ours.

“We’d love to see, for example, a vote in the United States Senate on a moratorium on Federal regulations, which are coming out by the thousands, costing businesses billions and billions of jobs. We’d love to see a vote on that.”

This shit is making my head hurt.

217 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:06:30pm

re: #211 Beltboy

Where's DF? We need the grill fired up.

218 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:06:44pm

re: #216 makeitstop

McCain refuses to be left behind in the Derpstakes:

This shit is making my head hurt.

billions of jobs? Are we employing microorganisms to do the jobs macro organisms won't do?

219 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:06:53pm

re: #210 wrenchwench

Anti-Semitism at Wall Street Protests: These are the people the Democrats are embracing.

Funny. That sounds oddly familiar for some reason.
/

220 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:06:59pm

Now leading in at least one national poll, Cain is frequently asked if he is the new political flavor of the month. Cain’s canned response is: “Haagen-Dazs black walnut tastes good all the time. "
-ABC News

((sigh))
Well, won't be eating that for awhile...thanks!
Dick.

221 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:07:35pm

re: #211 Beltboy

"Seventy-seven percent of the people in this country are opposed to taxpayer funding for abortions."
Shouldn't this COMMANDING majority of taxpayers decide how tax dollars are spent??

Now you're just lying. Which orifice did you pull that bogus figure out of?

222 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:08:21pm

re: #215 Rightwingconspirator

I sure have. Have you heard of the Stupak-Pitts Amendment??

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:08:58pm

re: #221 Charles

Now you're just lying. Which orifice did you pull that bogus figure out of?

He's getting it from Rep. Virginia Foxx. Where she is getting it from, I do not know.

224 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:09:09pm

re: #216 makeitstop

McCain refuses to be left behind in the Derpstakes:

This shit is making my head hurt.

I've got duct tape...

225 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:09:10pm

re: #216 makeitstop

McCain refuses to be left behind in the Derpstakes:

This shit is making my head hurt.

Who needs to worry about oil rigs exploding or contaminated foods are killing Americans? All that means is that even more jobs have suddenly become available.

226 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:09:23pm

re: #221 Charles

Umm, the story posted. What a wild place to find a quote, huh?!?

227 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:09:23pm

Not even the nuttier pro-life groups claim a figure that high. You just made it up.

228 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:09:23pm

re: #214 Beltboy

it's in the story. just click the top of the page.

I guess you'll have to ask Virginia Foxx for a link, then.

229 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:10:20pm

re: #226 Beltboy

Umm, the story posted. What a wild place to find a quote, huh?!?

No, you're quoting a Congresswoman who said the figure was 77%. Because Congresspeople never ever get facts wrong, right?

230 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:10:51pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it's coming from the Susan B. Anthony List:
[Link: www.tnr.com...]

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:11:49pm

re: #222 Beltboy

I sure have. Have you heard of the Stupak-Pitts Amendment??

Sadly, yes.

232 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:12:18pm

re: #211 Beltboy

I don't bloody well care if this is the case or not. No, we shouldn't be letting 'the majority' decide what health care procedures are covered, at least not if it involves them denying funding for medically important and valid procedures rather than quackery. Too often is this kind of thing used to punish unpopular or misunderstood groups or actions.

233 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:12:30pm

re: #226 Beltboy

Umm, the story posted. What a wild place to find a quote, huh?!?

Oh yea, that. Wingnut parrots false claim by anti-choice wingnut politician.

Lifenews, whose polling is undoubtedly slanted, says the figure is 67%.

But what's a little 10% difference.

234 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:12:40pm

re: #222 Beltboy
Yes, and it's very disturbing & harmful in it's consequences.

235 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:13:12pm

re: #224 OhNoZombies!

I've got duct tape...

I've got my own, thanks. Not helping.

236 Gus  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:13:26pm

Looks like I was right about the PTSD.

Seal Beach shooting: Suspect suffered PTSD from boat injury

The suspect in the Seal Beach salon shooting rampage, Scott Evans Dekraai, 42, suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder as the result of a tugboat accident in 2007, according to court records.

His doctor, Ronald T. Silverstein of Long Beach, made the diagnosis in court documents dated Sept. 30, 2008, that were contained in Dekraai's divorce and custody proceedings.

The letter also stated that repeated phone calls from Dekraai's ex-wife Michelle Fournier -– the alleged target of Wednesday's shooting -– were "extremely stressful" and "not healthy" for Dekraai.

237 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:13:57pm

re: #236 Gus 802

Looks like I was right about the PTSD.

Seal Beach shooting: Suspect suffered PTSD from boat injury

Good call.

238 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:14:02pm

re: #233 Charles

Ok. So it went from a commanding majority to a still commanding majority.
Maybe you should stop posting stories with inaccurate information in it! :)

239 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:14:18pm

1) Abortion is legal.
2) You don't want to pay for it, and I don't want to pay for:

Stupid wars
executions
etc, etc,

240 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:14:37pm

re: #222 Beltboy

I sure have. Have you heard of the Stupak-Pitts Amendment??

The Stupak-Pitts Amendment is just the starting point for misogynist throwbacks like you, admit it.

241 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:16:10pm

Stupak-Pitts should be repealed, and it will be eventually - maybe when all the throwbacks get too old to try to dominate women any more.

242 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:16:22pm

So, the logic is here because the public embraces it, it must be okay. Thanks, I guess the public option wasn't such a bad idea after all using that logic.

243 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:17:08pm

re: #242 HappyWarrior

So, the logic is here because the public embraces it, it must be okay. Thanks, I guess the public option wasn't such a bad idea after all using that logic.

Note -- all these polls come from very suspect sources. Lifenews is a rabid anti-abortion fundamentalist website.

244 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:18:17pm

re: #243 Charles

Note -- all these polls come from very suspect sources. Lifenews is a rabid anti-abortion fundamentalist website.

Yeah, I know Charles. I am just busting him on his assertation that "if the polls declare it's right then it must be a good idea." And besides it's a mute point anyhow since federal funding of abortion is already banned via the Hyde Amendment.

245 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:18:18pm

re: #240 Charles

The Stupak-Pitts Amendment was the sham that got the affordable health care act passed. But it was a joke to think the executive order Obama signed was worth the same as any of his inauguration plates you could have bought on tv!

246 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:18:54pm

The polling was probably slanted toward conservative congressional districts.
An example: [Link: www.sba-list.org...]

247 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:18:55pm

re: #211 Beltboy

"Seventy-seven percent of the people in this country are opposed to taxpayer funding for abortions."
Shouldn't this COMMANDING majority of taxpayers decide how tax dollars are spent??

at my job i am required to take care of the first, second, and third priority items, especially emergency items, before spending time on low priority tasks

CBS News Poll. Sept. 28-Oct. 2, 2011. N=1,012 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.
"What do you think is the most important problem facing this country today?" Open-ended

Economy and jobs 54%

Budget deficit/National debt 6%

War/Iraq/Afghanistan 4%

Partisan politics 3%

Health care 2%

Education 2%

Politicians/Government 2%

Religious values 2%

Moral values/Family values 2%

248 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:19:01pm

And Luap Nor should just be declared President by proclamation rather than using up money on these stupid elections. The internet polls say so!!11!!
/

249 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:20:34pm

Well Well Well.. I never bitched about bailing out Banks, Wall Street or GM...
But bail out a poor woman with an unwanted baby?
What is up with the GOP now? Idiots..

Now for full disclosure.. I knew a few woman in Napa that had abortions..
But they were rich and didn't need Government help.. But we as a people refuse to help a poor woman in crisis?

250 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:20:41pm

re: #241 Charles

Stupak-Pitts is a joke! The executive order isn't worth the paper it's printed on! You should know that!

251 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:20:48pm

re: #245 Beltboy

The Stupak-Pitts Amendment was the sham that got the affordable health care act passed. But it was a joke to think the executive order Obama signed was worth the same as any of his inauguration plates you could have bought on tv!

Welcome to the live threads.

You can quit posting dumb stuff now.

252 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:21:00pm

Oh, shit.
I'm now hunkered downstairs because of a possible tornado.
Windy as hell.

253 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:21:41pm

re: #252 Varek Raith

Oh, shit.
I'm now hunkered downstairs because of a possible tornado.
Windy as hell.

Be safe.

254 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:22:13pm

re: #252 Varek Raith

Careful, Varek. Wrenchwench is policing this thread!

255 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:22:19pm

re: #245 Beltboy

This one went from badly-informed gibberish to just plain gibberish in no time flat.

256 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:22:44pm

You know, it's all really kind of funny. I was raised Catholic and was, therefore, 'pro-life' by default when I was young (Not that I really understood the whole situation), even through the abortion bombings and attacks of the 90s.

As time went on and I grew and thought about it and how that sort of stance could even apply to my life someday, I softened some. By the time I hit university, I was basically pro-choice, but still pretty uneasy about the whole thing.

However, it wasn't until I started again becoming highly aware of the rabid anti-women, anti-abortion movement as an adult that I can say I moved into being truly, totally, strongly, and completely pro-choice. It took me really seeing the hate and violence (Not just physical) against women to finally get it. It took people like Beltboy preaching their misogyny for me to actually see through their lies.

So thanks, Beltboy. Thank you for being part of what opened my eyes.

257 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:22:54pm

re: #254 Beltboy

Careful, Varek. Wrenchwench is policing this thread!

I like Varek. He posts smart stuff and funny stuff.

258 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:23:17pm

Renew America: Obama is poised to take over the US and OWS are his foot soldiers

The occupy Wall Street "movement" that the Ministry of Propaganda is trying to convince us is a "mass, grassroots movement" appears to be made up of a few thousand die-hard, old, New Lefties and their spawn, clearly not very bright, and generally suffering from a variety of personality disorders. It's like déjà vu, a Sixties re-run of a really bad TV situation comedy. The only thing deeper than the garbage piling up at their "protest" sites is the hypocrisy filling the gulf between their Big Talk, and their actions. Anti-Semitism, intimidation, and threats of violence are part and parcel of the core beliefs and methods of these self-righteous "revolutionaries." On the up side, the more they shoot their big mouths off, the more the turn the majority off.

…

With no serious opposition to stand up for constitutional government and the Rule of Law, and growing frustration engendered in the White House by the realization that they are losing support, even with Democrats, we are in danger of allowing a situation to develop where the Obama-Soetoro administration and their Marxist allies in Congress will be panicked into a desperate attempt hold onto power by canceling the 2012 elections and imposing a one-party, totalitarian dictatorship.

Obama-Soetoro needs to be impeached, and the people responsible for Fast and Furious need to be identified and brought to trial. Democrat Spring? Obama Autumn!

259 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:23:49pm

re: #252 Varek Raith

Oh, shit.
I'm now hunkered downstairs because of a possible tornado.
Windy as hell.

Thanks for the heads up. I wasn't paying attention to how it is outside. Hopefully it passes us by. Have no idea where I'll go on campus if they have to evacuate us. Hope ya stay safe.

260 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:24:05pm

re: #257 wrenchwench

I like Varek. He posts smart stuff and funny stuff.

And being a Sith, is of no actual danger to anyone.

261 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:24:50pm

re: #250 Beltboy

Stupak-Pitts is a joke!

No, unfortunately it isn't. It's a deadly serious maneuver by right wing reactionaries to control women's reproductive organs.

You should know that.

262 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:25:07pm

All hail the... hail...

263 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:25:19pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Renew America: Obama is poised to take over the US and OWS are his foot soldiers

Anti-Semitism, intimidation, and threats of violence are part and parcel of the core beliefs and methods of these self-righteous "revolutionaries." On the up side, the more they shoot their big mouths off, the more the turn the majority off.

Again, this sounds oddly familiar.
/

264 Gus  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:25:19pm

BBL

265 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:26:01pm

re: #245 Beltboy

The Stupak-Pitts Amendment was the sham that got the affordable health care act passed. But it was a joke to think the executive order Obama signed was worth the same as any of his inauguration plates you could have bought on tv!

if it's a sham then why is the gop congress expending energy trying to override it?

266 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:26:24pm

re: #263 makeitstop

Again, this sounds oddly familiar.
/

2nd Amendment solutions...

267 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:26:49pm

Fairfax, Loudon, Arlington, Alexandria and DC watch out.
This one's coming right for you.

268 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:27:02pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Renew America: Obama is poised to take over the US and OWS are his foot soldiers

DEFUND OWS!!!!!

269 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:27:07pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Renew America: Obama is poised to take over the US and OWS are his foot soldiers

I give it a 9: "Obama-Soetero", "Marxist", etc. But I can't give it a ten because no matter how good the Obama outsider Marxist conspiracies are, they have gotten old as hell.

270 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:27:41pm

re: #267 Varek Raith

Fairfax, Loudon, Arlington, Alexandria and DC watch out.
This one's coming right for you.

Fuck.

271 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:28:25pm

re: #258 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Renew America: Obama is poised to take over the US and OWS are his foot soldiers

copious exhalations of hot air fail to boil enough water to make coffee

272 TedStriker  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:29:50pm

re: #229 HappyWarrior

No, you're quoting a Congresswoman who said the figure was 77%. Because Congresspeople never ever get facts wrong, right?

Or lie to gain bogus political points...

273 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:30:44pm

[Link: www.wunderground.com...]

274 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:30:52pm

re: #256 Simply Sarah

If you really want your eyes open, Sarah, take a look at the majority of women who are having abortions.

275 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:32:20pm

Perry: "the world has never been as dangerous as it is today, because of this administration’s lack of focus on dealing with these rogue nations."

Osama - dead
Somali Pirates who took US hostages - dead
Al-Awlaki - dead

276 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:32:28pm

Well, that was a bit scary.
Some minor tree damage, it looks like.
Flooded the hell out of the backyard.
Someone tell God where Texas is please.

277 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:33:10pm

re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry: "the world has never been as dangerous as it is today, because of this administration’s lack of focus on dealing with these rogue nations."

Osama - dead
Somali Pirates who took US hostages - dead
Al-Awlaki - dead

And quite a few prevented terrorist attacks. Yawn Rick. We've heard this one before.

278 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:34:39pm

re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry: "the world has never been as dangerous as it is today, because of this administration’s lack of focus on dealing with these rogue nations."

Osama - dead
Somali Pirates who took US hostages - dead
Al-Awlaki - dead

Perry and Bachmann are in the 'Fuck it, I'll be dropping my candidacy soon so I might as well say anything' phase of their campaigns.

279 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:34:41pm

re: #274 Beltboy

If you really want your eyes open, Sarah, take a look at the majority of women who are having abortions.

How many have you looked at?

280 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:36:15pm

re: #279 wrenchwench

Enough to know that the violence they live under doesn't come from those praying in front of abortion clinics!

281 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:36:56pm

re: #274 Beltboy

If you really want your eyes open, Sarah, take a look at the majority of women who are having abortions.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Do you really think there's some group of mythical, lesser women that have abortions, whereas all the proper women don't? Because let me tell you something, you . It's a common, everyday procedure.

All kinds of women seek out and get abortions. Rich, poor, liberal, conservative, young, older. It doesn't matter, women from all walks of life have them, despite the best efforts of self-important 'pro-life' (At least until you're born) bastards to stop them.

So yeah, I'd say my eyes are open pretty wide at this point.

282 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:37:02pm

re: #262 Varek Raith

All hail the... hail...

Looks like quite a storm. And a lot of lightning.

283 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:37:43pm

re: #280 Beltboy

Enough to know that the violence they live under doesn't come from those praying in front of abortion clinics!

What violence? Did you report it?

284 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:37:58pm

re: #274 Beltboy

If you really want your eyes open, Sarah, take a look at the majority of women who are having abortions.

abortion was illegal in this country for many, many decades, so we have abundant evidence of how poorly this worked in terms of stopping abortions. the main outcome of making abortions illegal was to vastly increase the dangerousness of the many abortions that still took place

is that what you want to return to?

285 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:39:03pm

There's been a debate on Frum Forum...
Are the Wall Street Marchers Suckers?

Are the Occupy Wall Street marchers Suckers? FrumForum Assistant Editor Mytheos Holt thinks so but FrumForum Managing Editor Noah Kristula-Green wonders if thats really the case. If the OWS marchers being mislead, then by whom?

It's a bit of a long read but an interesting debate.

286 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:39:38pm

re: #274 Beltboy

If you really want your eyes open, Sarah, take a look at the majority of women who are having abortions.

According to the most recent study;

CONCLUSIONS: The decision to have an abortion is typically motivated by multiple, diverse and interrelated reasons. The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study.

287 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:39:46pm

re: #280 Beltboy

Enough to know that the violence they live under doesn't come from those praying in front of abortion clinics!

Dr. George Tiller. Murdered in his own church by one of those people who prayed in front of abortion clinics.

288 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:39:52pm

re: #281 Simply Sarah

If I could up-ding you twice I would.

289 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:40:48pm

re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry: "the world has never been as dangerous as it is today, because of this administration’s lack of focus on dealing with these rogue nations."

Osama - dead
Somali Pirates who took US hostages - dead
Al-Awlaki - dead

An argument can be made that we are in fact living in the most peaceful time in human history.

Youtube Video
290 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:41:10pm

re: #272 talon_262

Or lie to gain bogus political points...

I don't give a F. If you are against abortion don't have one. It's none of your business.

291 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:41:16pm

re: #280 Beltboy

Enough to know that the violence they live under doesn't come from those praying in front of abortion clinics!

Your thought process is a mile wide and a inch deep...

292 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:41:52pm

Like a lot of things, you can't tell by looking.

293 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:42:07pm

re: #280 Beltboy

June Barret, James Barrett, and Dr. John Britton, murdered by one of those people who prays in front of abortion clinics.

294 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:42:16pm

re: #280 Beltboy

Enough to know that the violence they live under doesn't come from those praying in front of abortion clinics!

OK, seriously. I'm not sure if you're purely a troll or you actually really are this delusional. Whichever is the case, there's clearly no point in making any further attempts to interact with you, since you aren't actually interested in anything we have to say.

Besides, I'm meeting up with friends for the evening and really should be going. I leave this one for the rest of you to do with as you like (Well, mostly. Nothing that Charles wouldn't approve of, of course!).

Later, all!

295 TedStriker  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:42:19pm

re: #257 wrenchwench

I like Varek. He posts smart stuff and funny stuff.

Unlike some in this thread that are just flinging shit...oops, I mean "facts".

296 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:43:05pm

re: #280 Beltboy

Enough to know that the violence they live under doesn't come from those praying in front of abortion clinics!

I didn't see much praying the last time I saw abortion protestors up close. It was a lot of screaming about baby-killers and godless sinners.

297 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:43:13pm

re: #274 Beltboy

Sometimes you just have to wonder what kind of hellish upbringing causes trolls like these poor souls? Kyrie Eleison...

298 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:43:15pm

re: #280 Beltboy

Dr. Barnett Slepian, murdered by one of those people who prays in front of abortion clinics.

299 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:43:58pm

re: #280 Beltboy

Dr. David Gunn, murdered by one of those people who prays in front of abortion clinics.

300 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:44:07pm

re: #298 Charles

Dr. Barnett Slepian, murdered by one of those people who prays in front of abortion clinics.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

301 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:44:59pm

re: #293 Charles

June Barret, James Barrett, and Dr. John Britton, murdered by one of those people who prays in front of abortion clinics.

re: #298 Charles

Dr. Barnett Slepian, murdered by one of those people who prays in front of abortion clinics.

re: #299 Charles

Dr. David Gunn, murdered by one of those people who prays in front of abortion clinics.

Lone wolves, not influenced by any outside groups or ideology.

/

302 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:45:34pm

My cat is hissing at the rain.
XD

303 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:45:54pm

There's a lot more. A LOT more.

Those people who pray in front of abortion clinics are highly prone to violence, under the right circumstances.

304 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:47:07pm

re: #298 Charles

re: #299 Charles

Youtube Video

//

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:47:13pm

re: #250 Beltboy

Stupak-Pitts is a joke! The executive order isn't worth the paper it's printed on! You should know that!

You seem excited about this. Can you explain what you mean?

306 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:48:03pm

Does it bother anybody on this thread that abortion is intentionally stopping a beating heart?
If it's ok to have an abortion because I can't properly raise that child then how come it's illegal to kill a child already born that I can't properly raise?
Do you really believe that it is "just a clump of tissue"?
There are 40 somewhat million "fetuses". (I call babies) in landfills across this country. Where somebody decided for them that they could not live.

Is there any concern as to what this is doing to how we value human life??

307 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:49:22pm

re: #306 Beltboy

Does it bother anybody on this thread that abortion is intentionally stopping a beating heart?
If it's ok to have an abortion because I can't properly raise that child then how come it's illegal to kill a child already born that I can't properly raise?
Do you really believe that it is "just a clump of tissue"?
There are 40 somewhat million "fetuses". (I call babies) in landfills across this country. Where somebody decided for them that they could not live.

Is there any concern as to what this is doing to how we value human life??

Does it bother you that 50% of fertilized human eggs never implant in a womb and end up as part of a woman's period?

308 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:49:28pm

Image: picard-sigh1.jpg

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:49:58pm

re: #274 Beltboy

If you really want your eyes open, Sarah, take a look at the majority of women who are having abortions.

Oh, now the fangs.

Please, whatever fantasy you have about 'the majority of women who are having abortions', don't share it. You're not long for this thread anyway, and I'm having lunch.

310 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:50:44pm

re: #307 wrenchwench

No. Because nobody decided for that baby for that to happen.

311 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:52:09pm

re: #310 Beltboy

Your concern is over who decides?

312 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:52:24pm

re: #310 Beltboy

No. Because nobody decided for that baby for that to happen.

The "baby" gets to decide? Have you thought this through?

313 Jack Burton  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:52:36pm

re: #306 Beltboy

Image: 1273518679186.jpg

314 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:52:49pm

re: #296 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I didn't see much praying the last time I saw abortion protestors up close. It was a lot of screaming about baby-killers and godless sinners.

There's an element that prays. Middle-aged to elderly Catholics, primarily. Then there's the screamers and the boomers (not generationally, just those that boom), and the sign wavers.

315 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:52:57pm

re: #306 Beltboy

Someday I hope you are able to learn about Christ, because it's pretty obvious you don't right now.

316 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:53:17pm

re: #312 wrenchwench

You have a problem distinguishing an accident and a murder??

317 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:53:39pm

re: #306 Beltboy

Does it bother anybody on this thread that abortion is intentionally stopping a beating heart?
If it's ok to have an abortion because I can't properly raise that child then how come it's illegal to kill a child already born that I can't properly raise?
Do you really believe that it is "just a clump of tissue"?
There are 40 somewhat million "fetuses". (I call babies) in landfills across this country. Where somebody decided for them that they could not live.

Is there any concern as to what this is doing to how we value human life??

Why the attacks on contraception then? Why kill a mother by forcing her to care a baby that would die if carried to full term in some circumstances?

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:54:24pm

re: #306 Beltboy

Does it bother anybody on this thread that abortion is intentionally stopping a beating heart?
If it's ok to have an abortion because I can't properly raise that child then how come it's illegal to kill a child already born that I can't properly raise?
Do you really believe that it is "just a clump of tissue"?
There are 40 somewhat million "fetuses". (I call babies) in landfills across this country. Where somebody decided for them that they could not live.

Is there any concern as to what this is doing to how we value human life??

You're asking some big and complicated questions. Unfortunately, you've already given away that you have little intention of listening with an open mind to anyone's answers.

319 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:54:46pm

re: #306 Beltboy

Does it bother anybody on this thread that abortion is intentionally stopping a beating heart?
If it's ok to have an abortion because I can't properly raise that child then how come it's illegal to kill a child already born that I can't properly raise?
Do you really believe that it is "just a clump of tissue"?
There are 40 somewhat million "fetuses". (I call babies) in landfills across this country. Where somebody decided for them that they could not live.

Is there any concern as to what this is doing to how we value human life??

I see you've already moved the goalpost from federal funding of abortion to anti-abortion.

320 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:54:57pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

You're asking some big and complicated questions. Unfortunately, you've already given away that you have little intention of listening with an open mind to anyone's answers.

There's my cue. Thanks.

321 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:55:27pm

re: #315 wlewisiii

Learn about Christ?? Read the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 3, 4 & 5.
See what He says about Sex. See what he says about murder.

322 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:56:16pm

re: #317 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Why the attacks on contraception then? Why kill a mother by forcing her to care a baby that would die if carried to full term in some circumstances?

Didn't one of the politicians say damn right this is a war on contraception. I don't like abortion but it is established legal law, number one. Number two, I don't like the idea of forcing a woman to carry her rapist's baby. And three as a man, I don't think I should be telling a woman she must give birth. We need to be working against the conditions that make women choose to get abortions in the first place but when you say the phrase fight poverty, you get called a Marxist in this country.

323 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:56:36pm

re: #321 Beltboy

Learn about Christ?? Read the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 3, 4 & 5.
See what He says about Sex. See what he says about murder.

Like letting 2 people die when you have the ability to save 1, but choose not to?

324 Atlas Fails  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:56:57pm

re: #316 Beltboy

You have a problem distinguishing an accident and a murder??

So now a fertilized embryo that doesn't implant is akin to, say, a car accident?

Put down that crack-pipe, son.

325 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:57:40pm

re: #321 Beltboy

Learn about Christ?? Read the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 3, 4 & 5.
See what He says about Sex. See what he says about murder.

The Sermon on the Mount is actually Matthew 5-7, I believe.

326 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:58:38pm

re: #321 Beltboy

You need to brush up on the whole "not bearing false witness" thing.
;)

327 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:58:45pm

re: #325 SanFranciscoZionist
Time for you to get a real Bible, I guess.

328 Atlas Fails  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:58:55pm

re: #325 SanFranciscoZionist

The Sermon on the Mount is actually Matthew 5-7, I believe.

A Bible-thumper who doesn't actually know anything about the Bible?

Color me shocked.

329 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:58:59pm

re: #325 SanFranciscoZionist

The Sermon on the Mount is actually Matthew 5-7, I believe.

[Link: www.biblegateway.com...]

Correct. Evening Honcos.

330 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:59:08pm

re: #322 HappyWarrior

Didn't one of the politicians say damn right this is a war on contraception. I don't like abortion but it is established legal law, number one. Number two, I don't like the idea of forcing a woman to carry her rapist's baby. And three as a man, I don't think I should be telling a woman she must give birth. We need to be working against the conditions that make women choose to get abortions in the first place but when you say the phrase fight poverty, you get called a Marxist in this country.

Hatch: Contraception Coverage Is ‘An Affront To The Natural Rights To Life’

Texas GOP Rep On Cuts To Family Planning: ‘Of Course This Is A War On Birth Control’

331 Achilles Tang  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:59:23pm

re: #310 Beltboy

No. Because nobody decided for that baby for that to happen.

According to you, your god decided. What do you think of that?

332 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 2:59:31pm

re: #327 Beltboy

Time for you to get a real Bible, I guess.

Which one?

333 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:00:09pm

re: #330 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hatch: Contraception Coverage Is ‘An Affront To The Natural Rights To Life’

Texas GOP Rep On Cuts To Family Planning: ‘Of Course This Is A War On Birth Control’

Yep the guy from Texas is who I was thinking of, thanks.

334 TedStriker  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:00:17pm

re: #327 Beltboy

Fuck off...you're not going to get very far trying to browbeat the grownups here, you raging RWNJ.

335 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:00:26pm

re: #332 Varek Raith

I stand corrected. It is 5-7.
My bad.

336 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:00:48pm

re: #327 Beltboy

Time for you to get a real Bible, I guess.

Matthew 5 -Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount

337 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:00:54pm

re: #327 Beltboy

Time for you to get a real Bible, I guess.

Curious to know which Bible you've got there; a quick Google search repeatedly shows it as Matthew 5-7.

338 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:01:06pm

re: #325 SanFranciscoZionist

The Sermon on the Mount is actually Matthew 5-7, I believe.

re: #335 Beltboy

I stand corrected. It is 5-7.
My bad.

339 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:01:09pm

re: #327 Beltboy

Time for you to get a real Bible, I guess.

Er...can you recommend a good one?

340 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:01:10pm

Thou shalt have thy facts straight before blowing thy wad.

341 Beltboy  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:01:28pm

re: #334 talon_262

Don't care for the F-Bombs. Don't even know what an RWNJ is.
Does it have something to do with New Jersey??

342 Kragar  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:01:44pm

re: #332 Varek Raith

Which one?

Orange Catholic Bible

343 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:02:06pm

Yeah, I'm out of here. Try not to hurt Beltboy too badly.

I'll be back after the inevitable BBQ.

(D_F better get here soon.)

344 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:02:21pm

re: #321 Beltboy

Kid, go home and read it. Don't worship it. Study and let God actually enter your life. The whole world will be better when that happens.

345 Atlas Fails  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:03:03pm

re: #332 Varek Raith

Which one?

Everyone knows the pope conspires with Freemasons to corrupt the Bible and send more souls to hell. Oh, the things learned on the internet.

346 Achilles Tang  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:03:28pm

re: #339 SanFranciscoZionist

Er...can you recommend a good one?

I think he is on the old one. You know, kill all the firstborn etc.

347 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:03:59pm

re: #341 Beltboy

Youtube Video
348 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:04:31pm

re: #310 Beltboy

Have you ever cared for foster children ? How about abused and neglected children -- you know, the ones fully aware?
I have. And as ugly as you think abortion is, kids who are broken and abandoned in the system, only to be, many times, abused within the system designed to protect them, is a fate no child should have to endure.

350 Achilles Tang  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:04:59pm

re: #316 Beltboy

You have a problem distinguishing an accident and a murder??

Seems like what you call an accident was a murder by ......

351 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:05:19pm

re: #342 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Orange Catholic Bible

Funny, though I expect his is a Douay-Rheims.

352 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:06:08pm

re: #349 jaunte

Related:
Gov. Rick Scott Only Cares About Babies Until They're Born, Cuts Pregnancy Programs

Lovely. This is exactly why I think most "pro life" politicians are full of shit. They flat out don't give two fucks about the life when it's actually born.

353 jaunte  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:06:31pm

re: #348 OhNoZombies!

Have you ever cared for foster children ? How about abused and neglected children -- you know, the ones fully aware?
I have. And as ugly as you think abortion is, kids who are broken and abandoned in the system, only to be, many times, abused within the system designed to protect them, is a fate no child should have to endure.

If everyone who claimed they cared about the 'babies' in the womb cared enough to adopt the children who are waiting to be adopted, there wouldn't be such a glut of children in the system.

354 jamesfirecat  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:07:04pm

Beltboy I have a question for you... do you favor allowing the government to make it illegal to kill someone by refusing to help them?


Because that is what an abortion (at least in the first few trimesters) is, killing someone by refusing to let them make use of the mother's organs.

Yes or no?

355 Atlas Fails  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:08:49pm

I don't think anyone's suggesting that abortion's an inherently good thing. But study after study has shown that abortions happen whether they're legal or not, and I for one don't want to return to the days of back alley coathanger abortions preformed by drug dealers, as I value the lives of women over the potential lives of fetuses.

I've thought a lot about this issue, and it still gnaws at me, but I ultimately can't support laws that unnecessarily put women's lives and health at risk.

356 Achilles Tang  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:10:37pm

That was my quickie troll roast contribution (without answers, as expected). Now time for the real chop grilling. BBL

357 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:11:18pm

re: #353 jaunte

Yep. They would rather go overseas and shop for the right kind of baby.
The saddest part to me is the amount of damage a person can do to little, little kids.
I had to stop.

358 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:12:15pm

re: #355 Atlas Fails

I don't think anyone's suggesting that abortion's an inherently good thing. But study after study has shown that abortions happen whether they're legal or not, and I for one don't want to return to the days of back alley coathanger abortions preformed by drug dealers, as I value the lives of women over the potential lives of fetuses.

I've thought a lot about this issue, and it still gnaws at me, but I ultimately can't support laws that unnecessarily put women's lives and health at risk.

We're pretty much in the same boat on this one AS. What does I think keep me at least politically pro choice how nasty the rabid anti abortion people are to women who choose to get abortions. I still remember people I knew growing up who used to laugh and brag about how they taunted people at the clincs.

359 TedStriker  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:16:40pm

re: #341 Beltboy

Don't care for the F-Bombs. Don't even know what an RWNJ is.
Does it have something to do with New Jersey??

I don't give a damn about whether you "care for the F-bombs", because you're earning every bit of vitriol I'm giving you. As for what RWNJ means, I'll let the suspense build for you while you look through LGF for clues...

360 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:20:40pm

re: #355 Atlas Fails

I don't think anyone's suggesting that abortion's an inherently good thing. But study after study has shown that abortions happen whether they're legal or not, and I for one don't want to return to the days of back alley coathanger abortions preformed by drug dealers, as I value the lives of women over the potential lives of fetuses.

I've thought a lot about this issue, and it still gnaws at me, but I ultimately can't support laws that unnecessarily put women's lives and health at risk.

My sister was pregnant, scared and alone at 16.

My dad was a bit of a religious nut.

Years later, he was to tell my sister that he wished she'd "never been born" for going through with a divorce; an affront to the Catholic Church like no other.

I've occasionally wondered what might have happened had she been forced to tell my father that she was pregnant. I've never been able to satisfy myself with an answer that didn't include violence.

I'm pro-choice. Period.

361 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 3:27:44pm

True story.
35 years ago, aunt miscarried at about 5 months. For some reason, that no one in the family can figure out to this day, her doctor made her carry the dead fetus to term. She had to deliver it, cause that is god's way.
One would think she would find a slightly less insane physician, but she didn't.
Now, she's nucking futz.

362 Ming  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 4:34:03pm

The one thing that makes no sense at all is the person who (1) is opposed to abortion at any point in the pregnancy, starting from conception, and (2) is also opposed to making contraception more available and affordable, and educating young people about contraception.

You would think that anyone who sincerely opposed abortion would be overjoyed about contraception, since contraception is a great way to prevent abortions! No pregnancy, no abortion, right?

But for some reason, it seems that many of the people who are most loudly anti-abortion aren't happy when young people visit Planned Parenthood to pick up and/or learn about contraception. Wonder why.

363 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 13, 2011 4:39:53pm

re: #362 Ming

The one thing that makes no sense at all is the person who (1) is opposed to abortion at any point in the pregnancy, starting from conception, and (2) is also opposed to making contraception more available and affordable, and educating young people about contraception.

You would think that anyone who sincerely opposed abortion would be overjoyed about contraception, since contraception is a great way to prevent abortions! No pregnancy, no abortion, right?

But for some reason, it seems that many of the people who are most loudly anti-abortion aren't happy when young people visit Planned Parenthood to pick up and/or learn about contraception. Wonder why.

It's about controlling the women. Women are only supposed to have sex in order to bear children.

That's the only way it makes sense.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
2 days ago
Views: 91 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 259 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1