Why Do the Media Ignore the GOP’s Problems with Science?

Giving the Republican candidates a pass on vitally important issues
Opinion • Views: 30,520

Watching the debate last night, I was struck by the fact that we’ve now seen several of these gabfests unfold without a single mention of one of the Republican Party’s biggest and most irrational problems — their total rejection of science in many important areas.

In the early debates we saw some extremely embarrassing moments, as candidates exhibited stunning ignorance on issues like climate change, evolution, vaccines, and more. But the media seem to have an unspoken arrangement now to lay off the GOP. In last night’s debate, not a single question was asked about the most dangerous threat to human life, climate change.

You might expect that with such incredibly rich material, the media would dig in and follow up on the denialism rampant in the GOP. But … nothing. There seems to be a tacit agreement between the GOP and the media to give the Republican candidates a pass.

Are the media more invested in making sure there’s a close presidential race, so they can rake in the ratings and advertising dollars, than they are in getting at the truth behind the GOP’s anti-science craziness? It’s hard to come to any other conclusion; it’s the only way to make sense of this glaring silence on the vitally important issues of science in the 21st century.

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413 comments
1 blueraven  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:29:37am

I noticed that too Charles, and it makes me crazy(er?)

Sometimes I also wonder if there is an agreement between the candidates and the venue about taboo subject matter.

2 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:31:24am

I remember in 2008 being shocked that half of the candidates rejected evolution. Now I wouldn't be surprised if all of them except Huntsman and Romney(depending on what kind of mood he's in) do.

3 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:33:50am

I think the answer is pragmatic. They feel that there's enough people in the United States to carry an election without having to go into those issues so they're completely ignored.

4 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:34:49am

Given the sad level of science education these days, maybe reporters are afraid of exposing their own ignorance.

5 nines09  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:35:46am

This might explain it.

Image: saganandsnooki.jpg

6 William of Orange  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:35:51am

What the hell is this??? A case of entrapment by the NYPD??

Youtube Video


Downright ugly.

7 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:36:15am

re: #1 blueraven

I noticed that too Charles and it makes me crazy(er?)

Sometimes I wonder if there is an agreement between the candidates and the venue about taboo subject matter.

There has to be, and I think CNN is to blame to a very large degree.

That network seems so desperate to court Fox News viewers, who knows what concessions they're making to the sponsors of the debates they've aired so far (Tea Party, Western Republicans)?

I believe that since the advent of 'embedded' journalists (maybe I should have put 'journalists' in scare quotes as well) in the Gulf Wars, news networks have no reservations about giving up what they're allowed to report in return for access.

Same principle applies here. 'No questions about AGW, or we'll go to Fox News.'

8 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:36:39am
Are the media more invested in making sure there’s a close presidential race, so they can rake in the ratings and advertising dollars, than they are in getting at the truth behind the GOP’s anti-science craziness? It’s hard to come to any other conclusion; this is the only way to make sense of this glaring silence on the vitally important issues of science in the 21st century.

I think that's certainly a lot of it.

Another, perhaps even more cynical possibility is that the media groups hosting these things figure that none of the GOP base actually cares about these things.

9 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:38:17am

re: #1 blueraven

I noticed that too Charles, and it makes me crazy(er?)

Sometimes I also wonder if there is an agreement between the candidates and the venue about taboo subject matter.

The next one is co-sponsored by the Heritage Foundation, so don't look for a quick turnaround.

10 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:40:15am

I think the main reason, sadly, is that reporters know so little about science that they don't notice.

11 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:42:22am

WTF is this horseshit?

GOP Senator Pushes Radical Bill To Prohibit Discussion Of Abortion Over The Internet

12 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:43:56am

If the DNC does not use this anti science attitude in the general election against the GOP, they deserve to lose.

13 blueraven  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:45:56am

re: #6 William of Orange

What the hell is this??? A case of entrapment by the NYPD??

[Video]
Downright ugly.

I'm pretty sure that video was edited by some lefty commie.
/

14 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:46:42am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WTF is this horseshit?

GOP Senator Pushes Radical Bill To Prohibit Discussion Of Abortion Over The Internet

I saw that page. How Demint gets away with portraying himself as a supporter of small government amazes me.

15 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:47:20am

re: #12 Rightwingconspirator

If the DNC does not use this anti science attitude in the general election against the GOP, they deserve to lose.

You voting for Obama in 2012?

16 iossarian  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:47:39am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WTF is this horseshit?

GOP Senator Pushes Radical Bill To Prohibit Discussion Of Abortion Over The Internet

I defy any of the bullshit-peddlers who like to pretend on here that the GOP won't restrict abortion any further to discuss this latest attack.

What a bunch of crap.

17 Lidane  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:47:44am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WTF is this horseshit?

GOP Senator Pushes Radical Bill To Prohibit Discussion Of Abortion Over The Internet

It's Jim DeMint being an asshole, as usual.

18 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:48:10am

re: #14 HappyWarrior

I saw that page. How Demint gets away with portraying himself as a supporter of small government amazes me.

It's a 'Jobs' thing. I plan to apply for one of the GS-11 Internet Monitor openings.

19 jaunte  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:48:15am

The media is filled with people who didn't (more likely couldn't) become scientists themselves; they probably don't see the GOP's problem as a terribly significant one. Here's an interesting piece on how humanities graduates in the media tend to cover science stories:

So how do the media work around their inability to deliver scientific evidence? They use authority figures, the very antithesis of what science is about, as if they were priests, or politicians, or parent figures. “Scientists today said … scientists revealed … scientists warned”; And if they want balance, you’ll get two scientists disagreeing, although with no explanation of why (an approach at its most dangerous with the myth that scientists were “divided” over the safety of MMR). One scientist will “reveal” something, and then another will “challenge” it. A bit like Jedi knights.

The danger of authority figure coverage, in the absence of real evidence, is that it leaves the field wide open for questionable authority figures to waltz in. Gillian McKeith, Andrew Wakefield, Kevin Warwick and the rest can all get a whole lot further, in an environment where their authority is taken as read, because their reasoning and evidence is rarely publicly examined.

But it also reinforces the humanities graduate journalists’ parody of science, for which we now have all the ingredients: science is about groundless, incomprehensible, didactic truth statements from scientists, who themselves are socially powerful, arbitrary, unelected authority figures. They are detached from reality: they do work that is either wacky, or dangerous, but either way, everything in science is tenuous, contradictory and, most ridiculously, “hard to understand”.
[Link: www.badscience.net...]

20 iossarian  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:48:35am

re: #18 Decatur Deb

It's a 'Jobs' thing. I plan to apply for one of the GS-11 Internet Monitor openings.

Ha. Have you seen "The Lives of Others"?

21 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:49:01am

re: #18 Decatur Deb

It's a 'Jobs' thing. I plan to apply for one of the GS-11 Internet Monitor openings.

Oh that's brilliant, Jim's going to solve the jobs issue by hiring all the unemployed to be monitors of abortion discussion.

22 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:49:13am

re: #20 iossarian

Ha. Have you seen "The Lives of Others"?

Googling---

23 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:49:30am

re: #15 Varek Raith

You voting for Obama in 2012?

Probably. Not voting GOP in any case.

24 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:49:48am

re: #21 HappyWarrior

Oh that's brilliant, Jim's going to solve the jobs issue by hiring all the unemployed to be monitors of abortion discussion.

Might as well get paid for our hobby.

25 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:51:04am

re: #10 C1nnabar

I think the main reason, sadly, is that reporters know so little about science that they don't notice.

Or don't dare go there given their own ignorance.

26 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:51:11am

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

Probably. Not voting GOP in any case.

At this point, I think the only way the GOP comes to its senses is if they lose and lose bad.
Though, the cynic in me says they'll just claim they lost because of fraud and continue on the crazy train.
:/

27 iossarian  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:51:40am

re: #22 Decatur Deb

Googling---

It's about the Stasi in East Germany. There's a great scene in it where they're stuck in some underground office hellhole listening to people's phone conversations.

The fucking GOP. Secret abortion police to keep the brown commies at bay.

28 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:52:06am

re: #14 HappyWarrior

I saw that page. How Demint gets away with portraying himself as a supporter of small government amazes me.

Small government: small enough to fit into your vagina.

29 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:53:49am

re: #6 William of Orange

What the hell is this??? A case of entrapment by the NYPD??

[Video]
Downright ugly.

But, but, but.... Marxists!!!
/

Cheap tactics.

30 dragonfire1981  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:54:33am

The economy is far and away the top issue with voters so that's where the candidates are going to go.

But as I think about it I don't remember the last time I had a rational science related ANYONE at all.

Let's face it, we are doing a terrible job of science education both in the schools and in the public court.

31 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:55:39am

re: #28 Alouette

Small government: small enough to fit into your vagina.

Well in this case it's your keyboard but yes.

32 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:56:55am

re: #26 Varek Raith

At this point, I think the only way the GOP comes to its senses is if they lose and lose bad.
Though, the cynic in me says they'll just claim they lost because of fraud and continue on the crazy train.
:/

I think what will happen is if Romney is the nominee, I think he will lose in a close race, closer than McCain's was that is and they will claim that they lost because they weren't conservative enough.

33 Lidane  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:57:00am

re: #26 Varek Raith

At this point, I think the only way the GOP comes to its senses is if they lose and lose bad.
Though, the cynic in me says they'll just claim they lost because of fraud and continue on the crazy train.
:/

What they need is a Mondale-style humiliation on the national stage. That's what it took for the Dems to have a come-to-Jesus moment and ditch the hippies and the far left. The GOP needs something similar to finally ditch the religious right and the wingnuts.

But yeah, at this point there are no good options for the Republicans. Win, and all the crazy is validated. Lose to Obama in a close race and accusations of fraud (Soros! Ayers! ACORN! Eleventy!) will be widespread. Get curbstomped by Obama and the usual suspects will claim it's because the party isn't conservative enough.

34 recusancy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:57:34am

re: #32 HappyWarrior

I think what will happen is if Romney is the nominee, I think he will lose in a close race, closer than McCain's was that is and they will claim that they lost because they weren't conservative enough.

McCain v Obama wasn't a close race.

35 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:58:01am

Sensationalism and fear. 24/7 coverage of the Michael Jackson trial, predictions on who the big winner on Dancing With the Stars keeps those ratings up. They would much rather have an uncontrolled "debate" that focuses on which candidate can out-crazy the next. Audiences don't want to be informed, they want to be entertained. Everyone likes the Murdoch model.
Plus, I think the news media took a beating from the right-wingers post 9-11. They have PTSD after accusations of being unpatriotic, and no one wants to loose their audience over elitist gotcha questions.

36 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 10:58:55am

re: #34 recusancy

McCain v Obama wasn't a close race.

No it wasn't. I am saying Romney will do better than McCain did. Maybe lose by a fwe states as opposed to an electoral landslide.

37 theheat  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:00:29am

re: #20 iossarian

Terrific movie. First class acting and a very interesting story. Sad to hear Ulrich Muhe passed away from cancer shortly after the film was released.

38 jaunte  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:01:03am

re: #35 OhNoZombies!

elitist gotcha questions.

"Mr. Perry, what was the last book on science you've read?"

39 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:04:30am

re: #38 jaunte

I don't need none of that thar book larnin. Readin' is for liberuls and sissies!
-Rick Perry
:)

40 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:04:49am

re: #37 theheat

Terrific movie. First class acting and a very interesting story. Sad to hear Ulrich Muhe passed away from cancer shortly after the film was released.

I thought it was Scheisse, but, whatever.

41 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:06:43am

Any questions relating to climate change in a GOP debate would merely be 'MSM attacks GOP.'

It is known the GOP rejects climate change, so therefore any questions about it would be an attack 'by the liberal media.' I assume some members of the media already know this, or program managers know this and don't want this specific kind of controversy.

That's fine, give them the pass for now. Those questions should be asked during the real debates between actual candidates.

42 erik_t  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:07:52am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WTF is this horseshit?

GOP Senator Pushes Radical Bill To Prohibit Discussion Of Abortion Over The Internet

Who cares? The Supreme Court will just strike it down instantly.

43 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:09:16am

re: #41 BigPapa

Part of the problem is the media fetish of being 'balanced' or 'presenting both sides of the story'. They do this even when there's only one side of the story, as with climate change. The compulsion to pretend that there are two sides here, equally worth listening to, winds up lending credence to ridiculous and dangerous ideas. (Climate change-- there's two sides of the story!)

44 bubba zanetti  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:10:08am

re: #31 HappyWarrior

Well in this case it's your keyboard but yes.

Government small enough to fit in your tubes (internetz or fallopians)

45 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:12:20am

as candidates exhibited stunning ignorance

most americans know much more about When Is The Game On than anything else

i once worked in a company where people were very concerned about my strange tendency to talk about things that weren't sports

46 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:18:05am

re: #41 BigPapa

Any questions relating to climate change in a GOP debate would merely be 'MSM attacks GOP.'

It is known the GOP rejects climate change, so therefore any questions about it would be an attack 'by the liberal media.' I assume some members of the media already know this, or program managers know this and don't want this specific kind of controversy.

That's fine, give them the pass for now. Those questions should be asked during the real debates between actual candidates.

Heck, just ask them about fruit flies, volcanos and hurricane monitoring without explicitly bringing up global warming and you'll get the crazy.

47 recusancy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:18:55am

re: #44 bubba zanetti

Government small enough to fit in your tubes (internetz or fallopians)

I want government in our internet tubes at least to keep the net neutral.

48 TDG2112  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:19:06am

re: #8 Simply Sarah

I think that's certainly a lot of it.

Another, perhaps even more cynical possibility is that the media groups hosting these things figure that none of the GOP base actually cares about these things.

I think it is also that none of them will say anything different. They might snipe at each other for not being anti-science enough. Cain's 999 is a difference between the candidates. How they would tackle global warming isn't.

Remember when they were asked about raising taxes and compromising to get budget cuts? If the audience is Republican primary voters, then asking about science isn't going to provide any different kind of answer.

49 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:20:00am

re: #43 iceweasel

Part of the problem is the media fetish of being 'balanced' or 'presenting both sides of the story'. They do this even when there's only one side of the story, as with climate change. The compulsion to pretend that there are two sides here, equally worth listening to, winds up lending credence to ridiculous and dangerous ideas. (Climate change-- there's two sides of the story!)

I also get the impression that a lot of media types don't understand the vetting and evaluation process inherent in peer review and the research/publication process, and basically view scientific assertions as a kind of appeal to authority. When anti-scientific statements are made, they're treated as "a different perspective"--a competing appeal to authority--rather than probed regarding the validity of the science.

50 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:24:20am

The Left is busy saying that the Right is using anti-Semitism to discredit the Occupy ___ movement, but it's hard for me to not be concerned about a movement which makes people feel good about walking up to a reporter and proudly saying this:

Youtube Video

(Her employment with the Los Angeles Unified School District has been confirmed here [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

51 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:26:17am

re: #50 reuven

Actually, she's fired now. See last thread.

53 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:27:28am

re: #49 The Ghost of a Flea

I also get the impression that a lot of media types don't understand the vetting and evaluation process inherent in peer review and the research/publication process, and basically view scientific assertions as a kind of appeal to authority. When anti-scientific statements are made, they're treated as "a different perspective"--a competing appeal to authority--rather than probed regarding the validity of the science.

I think that's right, but I also think that this notion that science can be treated as "one of many, equally valid perspectives" is bullshit, and can be traced to an overweening deference to religion in our supposedly secular society.

54 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:27:41am

re: #50 reuven

The Left is busy saying that the Right is using anti-Semitism to discredit the Occupy ___ movement, but it's hard for me to not be concerned about a movement which makes people feel good about walking up to a reporter and proudly saying this:

[Video](Her employment with the Los Angeles Unified School District has been confirmed here [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

I think you should watch this video too:

Youtube Video
55 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:28:12am

re: #48 TDG2112

I think it is also that none of them will say anything different. They might snipe at each other for not being anti-science enough. Cain's 999 is a difference between the candidates. How they would tackle global warming isn't.

Remember when they were asked about raising taxes and compromising to get budget cuts? If the audience is Republican primary voters, then asking about science isn't going to provide any different kind of answer.

However, you want a wider audience than just Republican primary voters since you want to increase your party membership and also get your candidate name recognition increased for when the general election rolls around. (Unless your goal is to keep the kookiness in-house as long as possible to allow the "tack to the middle" for the general election to appear as moderation all along.)

And there has to at least be a certain percentage that are educated enough to notice that certain subjects are being totally avoided and thus are suspect.

56 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:28:29am

The science is still out on climate change. There is much tyranny to be imposed if just the process of breathing is having a detrimental effect on the environment.
Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact.

But then you ask somebody on the left when does life begin and you will get the nonsensical answer of it depends on what side of the vagina you are on and it is taken as wisdom.
Or the fact that only one man and one woman can create a child-- the whole reason for marriage and the founding of the family-- is just a discrimatory civil rights issue.
The media doesn't just ignore this. It promotes it.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to say you are entitled to your own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Today, it should be said that you are entitled to your own facts but you are not entitled to your own truth.

57 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:29:28am

re: #49 The Ghost of a Flea

Yep. It almost serves no purpose using a media outlet for anything regarding science. 9.8 times out of 10, the journalist covering any science story draws the wrong conclusion from data and sensationalizes the story.
Better to go to the source.

58 spiderx  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:29:50am

the media is covering for the GOP's ignorance on science.

CNN has totally been in the tank for the right. Do we need anymore proof than the fact they held a CNN-Tea Party debate? And whats with the singing of the national anthem before debates on CNN?

CNN is the most pathetic news organization we have in the country. It's obvious what FOX does. They are GOP-TV. But with CNN we expect real news and coverage that at least does its best to mimic reality. But what we get is some bizarro world where the Tea Party is considered mainstream.

59 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:30:08am

re: #56 Beltboy

Don't you find it at all difficult to type with your head jammed up your ass?

60 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:30:20am

re: #56 Beltboy

OOO... the Straw man Apocalypse has begun!

61 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:30:37am

re: #56 Beltboy

The science is still out on climate change.

This is complete bullshit. A nonsensical right wing talking point. It's not even close to being true. You've been lied to.

There is much tyranny to be imposed if just the process of breathing is having a detrimental effect on the environment.

Lol.

Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact.

Oh, so you're a creationist too. Imagine my surprise.

But then you ask somebody on the left when does life begin and you will get the nonsensical answer of it depends on what side of the vagina you are on and it is taken as wisdom.

And a misogynist. It's the trifecta of wingnut talking points.

62 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:31:00am

re: #54 Charles

Good! I'm glad to see that. But the problem, in general, with broad unfocused movements is that they become hard to control. It would be to their benefit if they distilled it down to a concise list of reforms they want, and make sure that the message is clear.

However, I don't think OWS "embarrassed" that guy, as implied by the title of the video. They'll easily get a large crowd to point at a cop and yell "Shame! Shame" but if not for that one brave man, few were paying attention to the "Zionist Bankers" guy.

I certainly feel sorry for people who are out of work or feel helpless, but I'm very confused as to what they want.

63 jaunte  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:31:07am

Child creation doesn't require a family; any random bastard can tell you that.

64 iossarian  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:32:34am

re: #62 reuven

Good! I'm glad to see that. But the problem, in general, with broad unfocused movements is that they become hard to control. It would be to their benefit if they distilled it down to a concise list of reforms they want, and make sure that the message is clear.

I certainly feel sorry for people who are out of work or feel helpless, but I'm very confused as to what they want.

Fortunately, Beltboy here is confirming that it's very clear what the right wants.

When you put it that way, it's pretty obvious who's on your side and who's not.

65 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:32:47am

re: #56 Beltboy

Good lord, how much abject ignorance can be crammed into a single comment box? See yours. You appear proud to be so uneducated and without any seeming ability to discern between reality and propaganda.

66 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:33:48am

re: #53 iceweasel

I think that's right, but I also think that this notion that science can be treated as "one of many, equally valid perspectives" is bullshit, and can be traced to an overweening deference to religion in our supposedly secular society.

(waves hand ambivalently) I think it's less about religion than the clash between intuitive understanding of cause-effect and scientific rigor. A subset of that is magical thinking of the type associated with religion-as-opposite-of-science, but there's a lot of other heuristics that people apply that are anti-rigor; some superstitious, others just presumptuous.

67 iossarian  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:34:17am

re: #65 allegro

Good lord, how much abject ignorance can be crammed into a single comment box? See yours. You appear proud to be so uneducated and without any seeming ability to discern between reality and propaganda.

I think there's a certain amount of Beavis and Butthead style sniggering going on.

Not a comment to be taken seriously, except to the extent that it really does connect to the right's anti-science, anti-woman position.

68 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:35:23am

Really so my cousin and his husband and their daughters aren't a real family because they're gay? A real loving family isn't about a man and a woman. It's about people who care for each other and if so happens it's a man and a man instead of a man and woman, it's still a family. And if marriage's sole purpose then what's the point of people who can't have kids marrying or elderly people who marry? The government has no business telling whatsever telling two consenting adults they can't marry. If your church doesn't want to bless that marriage, that's their right but it's not the state's right to deny them And yes evolution is a theory but theory in a scientific sense is different than theory in the conventional sense.For all the right's complaints about government getting in the way of people's private lives, you'd think they'd be sympathetic to gay marriage but by and large nooooooooooooo it's just a bunch of paranoia about gays.

69 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:36:16am

re: #63 jaunte

Child creation doesn't require a family; any random bastard can tell you that.

Lucky for us, a random bastard just dropped in!

70 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:37:24am

I couldn't have asked for a better example of why these issues matter. The right wing base is dangerously in denial about science -- and this has very disturbing implications for the future of America.

71 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:39:02am

re: #56 Beltboy

Image: thestupiditburns.jpg

72 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:39:34am

I predict that a link dump is imminent.

73 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:40:24am

re: #56 Beltboy

I hope for your sake this post is missing its sarcasm tag, or you know how to hit and run, because if you don't you're going to resemble bug guts on a windsheild pretty damn quick.

The science is still out on climate change. There is much tyranny to be imposed if just the process of breathing is having a detrimental effect on the environment.

The supposition and inference of a tyranny is yours and yours alone. The science is quite solid behind AGW.

Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact.

Theories do not get promoted to facts but contain and explain facts. Reason, don't react. It's what separates us from most other animals.

But then you ask somebody on the left when does life begin and you will get the nonsensical answer of it depends on what side of the vagina you are on and it is taken as wisdom.

It's not about when life begins, it's about when humanity begins - when does the fetus take on attributes that are purely human.

Or the fact that only one man and one woman can create a child-- the whole reason for marriage and the founding of the family-- is just a discrimatory civil rights issue.

The nuclear family is a recent construct, our history is one of extended families and even larger communities taking care of children. The current technological culture we live in does not need marriage to produce children, nor does marriage need to be restricted to bringing up children.

You might want to live in the now rather than the was.

74 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:40:26am

re: #56 Beltboy

The science is still out on climate change.

Not really. We may not totally understand everything about what is going on, but the basic details around what is happening and why are pretty well worked out.

Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact.

No, evolution happens. That's a fact. There is the scientific theory of evolution, which is, uh, a scientific theory and best represents what has been and currently is observed. And at this point, it's not going to just disappear. Modified? Sure. But science isn't going to drop evolution.

But then you ask somebody on the left when does life begin and you will get the nonsensical answer of it depends on what side of the vagina you are on and it is taken as wisdom.

Not even going to bother with this one.

Or the fact that only one man and one woman can create a child-- the whole reason for marriage and the founding of the family-- is just a discrimatory civil rights issue.

First off, that's not the only reason. There have been and currently are other cultural ideas of marriage that don't fit that definition of one and one, nor are they about founding a family. Historically, they often were as much, if not mostly, about interfamily relationships, rather than any idea of raising a family.

Also, you don't need one man and one woman to create a child. You generally need sperm and an ovum, be they from men, women, or other.

75 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:40:34am

re: #60 oaktree

re: #70 Charles


And the left is dangerously in denial about what programs like "Cap & Trade" will do to the already crippled world economy. Everything from food, fuel, clothing will be in short supply or priced beyond many people's reach! I guess everybody on this thread is rich enough not to worry.

76 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:41:47am

re: #62 reuven

Good! I'm glad to see that. But the problem, in general, with broad unfocused movements is that they become hard to control. It would be to their benefit if they distilled it down to a concise list of reforms they want, and make sure that the message is clear.

However, I don't think OWS "embarrassed" that guy, as implied by the title of the video. They'll easily get a large crowd to point at a cop and yell "Shame! Shame" but if not for that one brave man, few were paying attention to the "Zionist Bankers" guy.

I certainly feel sorry for people who are out of work or feel helpless, but I'm very confused as to what they want.

Different aspects of the OWS want different things. That's allowed isn't it?

77 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:42:00am

The whole reason for marriage isn't to create children--that just requires functioning junk and a will to apply it--it's to formalize issues of social and economic alliance between individuals and/or family groups.

If marriage were really just about procreation, then there wouldn't be any variants like polyandry or polygyny, nor societies in which marriages is a temporary and/or renewable contract, nor societies that conduct marriage rituals between individuals incapable of reproducing.

78 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:42:01am

re: #50 reuven

The Left is busy saying that the Right is using anti-Semitism to discredit the Occupy ___ movement, but it's hard for me to not be concerned about a movement which makes people feel good about walking up to a reporter and proudly saying this:

[Video](Her employment with the Los Angeles Unified School District has been confirmed here [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

Oh please. Cherry picking one or two stray bigots is easy at any protest. If you spend any time at Occupy LA you can see that clarion clear. Believe me. Chemtrail man is there too, and a lone truther. So what?

79 Neutral President  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:42:02am

re: #56 Beltboy

The science is still out on climate change. There is much tyranny to be imposed if just the process of breathing is having a detrimental effect on the environment.
Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to say you are entitled to your own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

Take your own damn advice... f-in srsly... this is tiresome.

80 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:42:03am

have you guys ever seen that documentary about the stone age south american tribe that became rich because oil was discovered on their tribal lands?

they are shown videotaping their ceremonies and also the negotiations with the oil people

the best part is when the oil guys try to cheat them and they bring out old tapes of negotiations and point at the screen and tell them, "um, isn't this you here last year saying something completely different?"

anyway, the point is that the people in the stone age tribe using the video camera understand as much about how it actually works as most americans do, me included

81 jaunte  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:42:19am

Who started the moronic meme that regulating carbon emissions would make breathing out illegal?

82 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:42:25am

re: #63 jaunte

Child creation doesn't require a family; any random bastard can tell you that.

That jokes deserves a kick in the ass. Bend over.

83 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:42:57am

re: #56 Beltboy

I thought I told you this before, but I checked and it was a different troll. Your statement:

But then you ask somebody on the left when does life begin and you will get the nonsensical answer of it depends on what side of the vagina you are on and it is taken as wisdom.

...is incorrect. The dispute is about when a human being becomes a person under the law, not when it it a life. The answer is political, not scientific. So far, a woman is a person under the law, the contents of her uterus are not.

84 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:44:17am

re: #83 wrenchwench

I thought I told you this before, but I checked and it was a different troll. Your statement:

...is incorrect. The dispute is about when a human being becomes a person under the law, not when it it a life. The answer is political, not scientific. So far, a woman is a person under the law, the contents of her uterus are not.

I think he's angry that it's a decision made by people with vaginas. Those damn Vagina-Americans and their special rights.

85 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:44:37am

re: #75 Beltboy

re: #70 Charles

And the left is dangerously in denial about what programs like "Cap & Trade" will do to the already crippled world economy. Everything from food, fuel, clothing will be in short supply or priced beyond many people's reach! I guess everybody on this thread is rich enough not to worry.

An intelligent, well thought out comment deserves one in response.

Since you can't provide one, I'll simply call you an idiot and be done with it.

86 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:45:22am

re: #84 iceweasel

I think he's angry that it's a decision made by people with vaginas. Those damn Vagina-Americans and their special rights.

Uterati vs illiterati.

87 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:45:27am

re: #75 Beltboy

re: #70 Charles

And the left is dangerously in denial about what programs like "Cap & Trade" will do to the already crippled world economy. Everything from food, fuel, clothing will be in short supply or priced beyond many people's reach! I guess everybody on this thread is rich enough not to worry.

What will migrations of people from areas that no longer support food production to already populated centres do to existing infrastructure and how much will new infrastructure cost?

88 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:46:29am

re: #56 Beltboy

The science is still out on climate change. There is much tyranny to be imposed if just the process of breathing is having a detrimental effect on the environment.
Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact.

But then you ask somebody on the left when does life begin and you will get the nonsensical answer of it depends on what side of the vagina you are on and it is taken as wisdom.
Or the fact that only one man and one woman can create a child-- the whole reason for marriage and the founding of the family-- is just a discrimatory civil rights issue.
The media doesn't just ignore this. It promotes it.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to say you are entitled to your own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Today, it should be said that you are entitled to your own facts but you are not entitled to your own truth.

Don't know when life begins, but I do know that it's wrong to force your religious beliefs on others.

89 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:46:30am

re: #75 Beltboy

And the left is dangerously in denial about what programs like "Cap & Trade" will do to the already crippled world economy. Everything from food, fuel, clothing will be in short supply or priced beyond many people's reach! I guess everybody on this thread is rich enough not to worry.

Because when Koch Industries control all the food, fuel and clothing in the world, and actively prevent anyone else from producing food, fuel and clothing, they can set whatever price they want! I guess you are totally OK with that.

90 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:47:08am

re: #87 b_sharp

What will migrations of people from areas that no longer support food production to already populated centres do to existing infrastructure and how much will new infrastructure cost?

Duh, God took their stuff because he hates them and they don't have the common decency to lay down and die according to his plan.

91 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:47:21am

Correct me if I am wrong here people but didn't the right embrace Cap and Trade and then turn on it as soon as Obama supported it.

92 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:47:57am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

Correct me if I am wrong here people but didn't the right embrace Cap and Trade and then turn on it as soon as Obama supported it.

Pretty much. Like everything else Obama supports.

93 jaunte  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:49:24am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

"Emissions Trading," under George H. W. Bush:
[Link: www.smithsonianmag.com...]

94 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:49:29am

re: #81 jaunte

Who started the moronic meme that regulating carbon emissions would make breathing out illegal?

It's just a denialist talking point. They try to use reductio ad absurdum by saying breathing creates CO2 so we should stop breathing but only succeed in showing their ignorance about both logic and AGW.

95 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:49:34am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

Correct me if I am wrong here people but didn't the right embrace Cap and Trade and then turn on it as soon as Obama supported it.

No, they would never ...

The GOP flip flops on cap and trade

The Reagan White House conceived the first cap-and-trade program to reduce pollution. It was used in the 1980s to phase out lead in gasoline at a lower cost. An EPA analysis shows:

“¦estimated savings from the lead trading program of approximately 20 percent over alternative programs that did not provide for lead banking, a cost savings of about $250 million per year.

President Reagan also signed the Montreal Protocol in 1987 to slash the production and use of chemicals that deplete the upper ozone layer essential to screen out cancer-causing ultraviolet rays. His administration established a cap-and-trade system to implement the chemical reductions the protocol required. A 2006 scientific assessment concluded that “the Montreal Protocol is working” to reduce chemicals and protect the ozone layer.

President George H.W. Bush, Reagan’s successor, was the first president to propose the employment of a cap-and-trade system in an environmental law. The Clean Air Act of 1990 includes his proposed cap-and-trade system to reduce the sulfur pollution from power plants responsible for acid rain.

SAINT REAGAN BITCHES!

96 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:51:23am

re: #56 Beltboy

Evolution is a theory, one that is backed up by facts from nearly every branch of science.

I would be in favor of firing any teacher who says it is a fact, that would demonstrate a basic lack of understanding of science and how it works.

Which seems to be a major problem in this country in general and in the GOP in particular

97 mr.fusion  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:51:27am

I didn't go through every post, so I apologize if this point has been made

But I think the GOP has just done a fabulous job of working the refs. They simply demonize anyone who doesn't agree with them by calling them socialists, they constantly play the victim by whining about "liberal media bias," and they have done a wonderful job of presenting numerous arguments not through "fact vs fiction" but through "there's two sides and they are both equally valid."

And it's not just science. It's the apology tour, it's the claim that Obama promised the stimulus wouldn't raise unemployment past 8%, it's the claim that Obama has raised taxes. I could honestly go on and on and on and on......and this isn't just stuff coming from a far right extreme of the GOP, Mitt Romney is basing his campaign over Obama's so-called apologies. And no one ever calls them on any of this

98 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:52:32am

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, they would never ...

The GOP flip flops on cap and trade

SAINT REAGAN BITCHES!

Man that Reagan such a lefty. I think LVQ has talked about how Thatcher also supported this ink the 80's. I still think the most pathetic right wing flip flop on a policy was how Limbaugh accused Obama of supporting kllling Christians in Uganda after he sent the advisers to help fight the LRA. To the GOP congresscritters' grudging credit they didn't do that but still Limbaugh planted a fucking seed that Obama was killing Christians.

99 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:54:00am

re: #75 Beltboy

re: #70 Charles


And the left is dangerously in denial about what programs like "Cap & Trade" will do to the already crippled world economy. Everything from food, fuel, clothing will be in short supply or priced beyond many people's reach! I guess everybody on this thread is rich enough not to worry.

The one response I'll grant you to see if you're interested in a polite conversation or are simply trolling and headed for the grill shortly.

You can disagree and discuss *how* to react to the issue of global warming without having to deny it is happening (and in the face of a lot of facts and effective modeling.) Do you want to start over and go from there in a civil manner?

The second part there is a hiliariously inept attack and I'll just ignore it.

100 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:54:34am

Harvey Urges Parents To Refuse Care For Their Children From Gay Doctors

“There are a few homosexual doctors treating kids, there are far more nurses, LPNs, technicians and other health care workers in these lifestyles,” Harvey contends. “Should your child ever be hospitalized, you do not want your child treated or cared for by one of these members of the Children’s Hospital gay employees group.”

WTF?

101 jaunte  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:55:35am

re: #96 ralphieboy

Talk Origins had a good piece about that:

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them.

102 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:55:42am

re: #96 ralphieboy

Actually, experts on evolution do consider it to be a fact. This is how Stephen J. Gould explained it:

In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact"--part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science--that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

103 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:56:09am

re: #62 reuven

Good! I'm glad to see that. But the problem, in general, with broad unfocused movements is that they become hard to control. It would be to their benefit if they distilled it down to a concise list of reforms they want, and make sure that the message is clear.

I certainly feel sorry for people who are out of work or feel helpless, but I'm very confused as to what they want.

You are confusing movements and campaigns. A movement typically has a broad-based support for a general idea, often without clear leadership or specific demands. A campaign targets a specific issue, proposes a solution and has some level of organization to carry it out.Gay rights are a good illustration of this. The general idea of the movement is ending the stigmatization of and discrimination against LGBT is fairly broad, in the beginning there were no national leaders and no specific policy goals. The campaign for marriage equality on the other hand is a campaign. It has a specific solution and an organizational structure.

The Occupy movement is not a campaign. It's based on the idea that there is a massive, and growing disparity between the wealthy and the rest of us, and that disparity need to be fixed. That's the entire message. Most people understand that fixing problems of this magnitude isn't simple or easy, there isn't one obvious solution to any of this. The Occupy movement now has more than 600 affiliated protests in America alone, with no organization about the local level. If each of these 600 occupations sad down and hashed out a list of demands you would probably get about a thousand different demands.

This is why the occupy movement is not a campaign. The actual OWS line is now "we will not propose solutions, but we will endorse them". Which I think is a good start. No one is going to be able to control this movement, no one should. This is a movement supported by roughly 40% of Americans. There are going to be lots of view points, some odious. To decry this movement because some people you don't like show up and wave signs around is to decry the very ideas of democracy. Anyone can speak, some might get shouted down however.

104 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:56:22am

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Harvey Urges Parents To Refuse Care For Their Children From Gay Doctors

WTF?

Derp is becoming an infectious disease. Thankfully most people here have been inoculated against it.

105 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:57:34am

re: #101 jaunte

Talk Origins had a good piece about that:

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory

A golden oldie.

106 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:59:24am

Why is it every time I show up everyone else leaves?

107 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 11:59:33am

re: #103 BishopX

Well done!

108 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:00:14pm

re: #106 b_sharp

Why is it every time I show up everyone else leaves?

We are the NOBODIES!

109 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:00:51pm

re: #108 allegro

We are the NOBODIES!

Again.

Did you bring a deck of cards?

110 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:00:55pm

re: #104 b_sharp

Derp is becoming an infectious disease. Thankfully most people here have been inoculated against it.

That woman's ignorance and bigotry is just mind boggling to me. Don't let your kid see a gay nurse or doctor, because if they see them performing their job well, the kid might decide a doctor or nurse is a good role model, and we can't have a gay person be a good role model. What the fuck is that shit?

111 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:01:13pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Harvey Urges Parents To Refuse Care For Their Children From Gay Doctors

WTF?

That's just plain old stupid. Yeah Linda a gay or lesbian nurse/doctor is going to turn your kids gay. That's even more stupid than the nutters who are convinced Glee is making kids gay which obviously didn't work on my kid brother being the little lady killer that he is. Linda Harvey's a stupid moron.

112 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:01:49pm

re: #102 Charles

Damn, I miss Gould. Now that was a science writer worth a thousand Hitchens or his ilk.

113 Neutral President  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:01:50pm

re: #96 ralphieboy

Evolution is a theory, one that is backed up by facts from nearly every branch of science.

I would be in favor of firing any teacher who says it is a fact, that would demonstrate a basic lack of understanding of science and how it works.

Which seems to be a major problem in this country in general and in the GOP in particular

Evolution is a fact. How it happens is the theory.

114 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:01:53pm

re: #109 b_sharp

Again.

Did you bring a deck of cards?

Naw, just a cup of really good coffee and a pair of thumbs to twiddle.

115 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:01:56pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That woman's ignorance and bigotry is just mind boggling to me. Don't let you kid see a gay nurse or doctor, because if they see them performing their job well, the kid might decide a doctor or nurse is a good role model, and we can't have a gay person be a good role model. What the fuck is that shit?

That shit is well ... shit.

116 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:02:54pm

re: #112 wlewisiii

Damn, I miss Gould. Now that was a science writer worth a thousand Hitchens or his ilk.

When did Hitchens become a science writer?

117 Donna Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:03:00pm

re: #77 The Ghost of a Flea

The whole reason for marriage isn't to create children--that just requires functioning junk and a will to apply it--it's to formalize issues of social and economic alliance between individuals and/or family groups.

If marriage were really just about procreation, then there wouldn't be any variants like polyandry or polygyny, nor societies in which marriages is a temporary and/or renewable contract, nor societies that conduct marriage rituals between individuals incapable of reproducing.

If I remember my Anthropological History right, marriage started as a "breeding rights" contract between clans. My Anthropology professor distinctly outlined the social-economic need for keeping bloodlines properly mixed so that there wasn't too much inbreeding and warfare between neighboring tribes and clans in ancient times when traveling was much more difficult and food hard to come-by. Thus the practice of "Purchasing a bride" which is still practiced in some parts of the world.
You remember the dowry chest or hope chest which our grandmothers used to have started for them as children? Uh huh. That was to make sure she went into the marriage with some property of her own, so she would have status within his family. My mother still has her grandmothers dowry chest!

118 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:03:02pm

re: #114 allegro

Naw, just a cup of really good coffee and a pair of thumbs to twiddle.

I did too, but both thumbs are lefties so I can't twiddle worth shit.

119 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:03:15pm

re: #112 wlewisiii

Damn, I miss Gould. Now that was a science writer worth a thousand Hitchens or his ilk.

Hitchens is a science writer? Christopher Hitchens?

120 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:03:40pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That woman's ignorance and bigotry is just mind boggling to me. Don't let you kid see a gay nurse or doctor, because if they see them performing their job well, the kid might decide a doctor or nurse is a good role model, and we can't have a gay person be a good role model. What the fuck is that shit?

I don't want to go to any doctor who actually enjoys giving me a prostate check!!1!

121 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:04:01pm

re: #116 allegro

When did Hitchens become a science writer?

He's a damn good anti-woo debater.

122 recusancy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:04:06pm

re: #119 wrenchwench

Hitchens is a science writer? Christopher Hitchens?

Probably meant Dawkins

123 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:04:25pm

re: #96 ralphieboy

Evolution is a theory, one that is backed up by facts from nearly every branch of science.

I would be in favor of firing any teacher who says it is a fact, that would demonstrate a basic lack of understanding of science and how it works.

Which seems to be a major problem in this country in general and in the GOP in particular

Confusing the scientific use of the word theory with the mundane use is a standard and stupid technique of science deniers everywhere. It is a word game based in ignorance. What most people think of as a theory (as in anything that someone might believe to be true) is usually, in science, at best, a weak hypothesis.

In lay person terms, a scientific theory is something that has been proven to be fact beyond any standard set in any court of law. Is the theory of heliocentrism (the sun at the center of the solar system) a fact? Yes. It is a fact as much as anything can be a fact outside of pure mathematics. Is evolution a fact? Yes, it is a fact as far as anything can be proven outside of mathematics.

It becomes endlessly frustrating to have to re-write this over and over again. A mature theory like evolution has literally billions of observations confirming the correctness of the theory. We see it happening in real time with anti-biotic resistant bacteria. We see it happening in the fossil record. We see it encoded in our very own DNA when we find all sorts of commonalities with other organisms and an entire history of gene expressions turned on and off. I could write for a dozen pages about all the ways this has been shown to be true and still only scratch the tip of the iceberg.

So yes, it is a fact. I repeat a fact. A glaring obvious fact that has been shown to be true countless times.

124 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:05:21pm

re: #122 recusancy

Probably meant Dawkins

One of those athiests. They all look alike.

/

125 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:05:24pm

re: #117 Dragon_Lady

Indeed, marriage has always been a property construct, not a familial one beyond the "wife and children are property" thing of the past and the current "who gets my stuff when I die" thing now.

126 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:06:54pm

re: #123 LudwigVanQuixote

Confusing the scientific use of the word theory with the mundane use is a standard and stupid technique of science deniers everywhere. It is a word game based in ignorance. What most people think of as a theory (as in anything that someone might believe to be true) is usually, in science, at best, a weak hypothesis.

.

Exactly,anti science people say oh evolution's just a theory. Either totally ignorant or willfully ignorant that "theory" in science is different from saying "I have a theory on why he bought that so and so." I mean shit I am not even that great of science student and I know this.

127 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:06:56pm

re: #107 allegro

Thank you! This has been bugging me for a while.

128 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:07:03pm

re: #111 HappyWarrior

That's just plain old stupid. Yeah Linda a gay or lesbian nurse/doctor is going to turn your kids gay. That's even more stupid than the nutters who are convinced Glee is making kids gay which obviously didn't work on my kid brother being the little lady killer that he is. Linda Harvey's a stupid moron.

A gay or lesbian doctor or nurse could give your kid an injection without the parents being told about it and it could cause mental retardation! Hurr hurr!

129 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:07:07pm

re: #125 allegro

Indeed, marriage has always been a property construct, not a familial one beyond the "wife and children are property" thing of the past and the current "who gets my stuff when I die" thing now.

Monogamy also did not become important to humans until we started actually owning stuff, land and livesttock, and we had to settle the matter of inheritance.

Back when we were nomadic tribes in which all the children were raised and fed by the entire tribe, monogamous marriage was not a major issue

130 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:07:32pm

re: #128 Alouette

Ha yeah stupid idiots.

131 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:07:36pm

I think ralpherboy ran away with his tail tucked between his legs.

Its probably much safer for him that way.

132 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:07:49pm

Cain says banks foreclosing on homes because of the threat of Obamacare, need to get the Government off the bank's back

the best way to address the foreclosure crisis is to “remove the barriers that are keeping [banks] from doing business the way they would want to”:

CAIN: I know people don’t like this, but no. Because then you distort the free market system. Here’s how you encourage banks: Remove the barriers that are keeping them from doing business the way that they would want to. Most banks would want to renegotiate with people on their mortgages, but I’m telling you there are restrictions that are more government driven that are keeping them — I’ve had bankers tell me this. They didn’t give me a list of all the things that, you know, could be done. They want to help people, they really do. But it is the threat of government regulations, it is the threat of the Dodd-Frank bill and rolling it out. Some of it is the threat of the whole Obamacare thing.

Newsflash: Letting the banks do business they way they wanted to is why we have a fucking housing crisis in the first place.

P.S.: Healthcare plans don't make banks foreclose on people.

133 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:08:01pm

And speaking of facts, and the topic of this thread...

It is appalling that the media does not bother itself with little details like the impending doom of our civilization and the deaths of billions. That future could still be changed, but not at the emission rate we are going at, not with expanding methane drilling and exploiting oil sands.

But I suppose the true and grim realities of the world, and the uncaring nature of physics are not entertaining enough.

Indeed covering such things closely would tell Americans that they have a duty to act and that they must change the way they do things or suffer terribly. No American ever wants to hear that.

134 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:09:01pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain says banks foreclosing on homes because of the threat of Obamacare, need to get the Government off the bank's back

Newsflash: Letting the banks do business they way they wanted to is why we have a fucking housing crisis in the first place.

P.S.: Healthcare plans don't make banks foreclose on people.

Weren't banks foreclosing on homes before Obama's health care legislation? I swear Herman Cain is such a corporate apologist. The government can do no right and corporate America can do no wrong.

135 shoshin  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:09:16pm

c'mon, Charles...the media ignores science because people will switch the station when someone starts talking about something they don't understand....no one cares!...I mean, I care, (and you do too, I guess), but we are in a tiny minority...

what is to be done?...

136 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:09:46pm

re: #126 HappyWarrior

Exactly,anti science people say oh evolution's just a theory. Either totally ignorant or willfully ignorant that "theory" in science is different from saying "I have a theory on why he bought that so and so." I mean shit I am not even that great of science student and I know this.

The word hypothesis has many, many syllables making it hard to remember and say, but theory only has two so it's a much easier word.

137 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:09:57pm

re: #123 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh hai, I was hoping you'd show up :) Can you tell me if this is a journal that does rigorous peer review? Or is it more informal, like a magazine?

Bulletin of Science, Technology & Society

I ask because I believe they just published some Koch-funded propaganda...

138 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:10:45pm

re: #136 b_sharp

The word hypothesis has many, many syllables making it hard to remember and say, but theory only has two so it's a much easier word.

It was my understanding that theory and hypothesis were different. In that a theory is a tested hypothesis whose conclusions have been supported e.g. evolution.

139 Neutral President  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:11:52pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Harvey Urges Parents To Refuse Care For Their Children From Gay Doctors

WTF?

Oh noes! They might catch a case of teh ghey before Jesus has enough time to make them immune!

140 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:12:22pm

re: #134 HappyWarrior

Weren't banks foreclosing on homes before Obama's health care legislation? I swear Herman Cain is such a corporate apologist. The government can do no right and corporate America can do no wrong.

I'm just amazed that he can say much of anything with all those corporate/lobbyist dicks in his mouth.

141 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:12:24pm

re: #138 HappyWarrior

It was my understanding that theory and hypothesis were different. In that a theory is a tested hypothesis whose conclusions have been supported e.g. evolution.

Yes. The implication of my comment was that people have begun to use theory when they mean hypothesis.

142 Donna Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:12:44pm

re: #135 shoshin

c'mon, Charles...the media ignores science because people will switch the station when someone starts talking about something they don't understand...no one cares!...I mean, I care, (and you do too, I guess), but we are in a tiny minority...

what is to be done?...

And those of us who like to expand our minds by watching science shows, reading a book or actually going out to do the research ourselves will do so anyways, regardless as to what the jackasses of the mainstream media say! Personally I watch less and less of the mainstream media and more and more of the stuff they don't want to talk about. Like science shows and silly stuff like that!

143 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:13:15pm

re: #141 b_sharp

Yes. The implication of my comment was that people have begun to use theory when they mean hypothesis.

Oh gotcha. Agreed.

144 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:13:21pm

re: #142 Dragon_Lady

And those of us who like to expand our minds by watching science shows, reading a book or actually going out to do the research ourselves will do so anyways, regardless as to what the jackasses of the mainstream media say! Personally I watch less and less of the mainstream media and more and more of the stuff they don't want to talk about. Like science shows and silly stuff like that!

All on your iPad?

145 Neutral President  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:13:41pm

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm just amazed that he can say much of anything with all those corporate/lobbyist dicks in his mouth.

I'm pretty sure that there is a pile of Weapons-Grade Derpium involved in this as well.

146 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:13:58pm

re: #136 b_sharp

The word hypothesis has many, many syllables making it hard to remember and say, but theory only has two so it's a much easier word.

What I learned in science class is that you start with a hypothesis. Then you test the hypothesis through observation and experiments and correlate some facts. If the facts support it, you have a theory.

"Living creatures evolved through natural selection" is a hypothesis. And countless observations, tests and facts from every branch of science confirm support that hypothesis.

"God created all living creatures" is a hypothesis, but there is no way of confirming that hypothesis through fact, so it must remain a hypothsis or a matter of faith.

And it has no place in any science classroom.

147 Donna Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:14:30pm

Well Kids, its been fun but my sinus headache is really bugging me so I'm gonna go lay down and watch a science show or something. Keep Laughing! Later y'all!

148 Donna Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:15:28pm

re: #144 b_sharp

All on your iPad?

Nah, RWC's at work, I get to use the computer when he's gone! ;-) Later!

149 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:16:16pm

re: #135 shoshin

c'mon, Charles...the media ignores science because people will switch the station when someone starts talking about something they don't understand...no one cares!...I mean, I care, (and you do too, I guess), but we are in a tiny minority...

what is to be done?...

From my experience, most people love science when it's presented in an entertaining and understandable way. See the major success of Sagan's series and many, many others. Check out the popularity of MythBusters for example. And not that long ago PBS ran a program on dogs and their evolutionary history with humans. I saw people talking about that on all kinds of blogs and elsewhere. This is the way to get people interested in science and to teach concepts.

150 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:16:38pm

re: #131 b_sharp

I think ralpherboy ran away with his tail tucked between his legs.

Its probably much safer for him that way.

I meant beltboy, not ralphieboy.

151 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:18:57pm

re: #150 b_sharp

I meant beltboy, not ralphieboy.

he sees that he cannot talk any sense into us, he has moved on to big government or atlas shrugged...

152 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:19:52pm

re: #151 ralphieboy

No doubt to claim that he's #winning!

153 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:20:12pm

re: #149 allegro

From my experience, most people love science when it's presented in an entertaining and understandable way. See the major success of Sagan's series and many, many others. Check out the popularity of MythBusters for example. And not that long ago PBS ran a program on dogs and their evolutionary history with humans. I saw people talking about that on all kinds of blogs and elsewhere. This is the way to get people interested in science and to teach concepts.

and there is almost no way to talk about climate change that makes for entertaining TV, that is a major drawback into gaining acceptance for the theory.

154 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:20:39pm

re: #149 allegro

From my experience, most people love science when it's presented in an entertaining and understandable way. See the major success of Sagan's series and many, many others. Check out the popularity of MythBusters for example. And not that long ago PBS ran a program on dogs and their evolutionary history with humans. I saw people talking about that on all kinds of blogs and elsewhere. This is the way to get people interested in science and to teach concepts.

People love exploding things. Especially if they're an American. We love blowing stuff up.

I'm really surprised it's not in the Bill of Rights.

The enjoyability of really big explosions being universal, the right of the people to blow their own random crap up, providing they hurt neither themselves nor their neighbors, shall not be abridged.

155 Idle Drifter  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:21:20pm

re: #150 b_sharp

Probably a drive by posting. Posts some talking points then sits back and watches the negative karma tick. Not really interested in any debate.

156 Neutral President  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:21:20pm

re: #151 ralphieboy

he sees that he cannot talk any sense into us, he has moved on to big government or atlas shrugged...

Image: wrong.jpg

157 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:21:24pm

re: #154 EmmmieG

People love exploding things. Especially if they're an American. We love blowing stuff up.

I'm really surprised it's not in the Bill of Rights.

The enjoyability of really big explosions being universal, the right of the people to blow their own random crap up, providing they hurt neither themselves nor their neighbors, shall not be abridged.

2nd Amendment.

158 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:22:03pm

re: #153 ralphieboy

and there is almost no way to talk about climate change that makes for entertaining TV, that is a major drawback into gaining acceptance for the theory.

Survivor: Ice Floe?

159 allegro  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:22:16pm

re: #153 ralphieboy

and there is almost no way to talk about climate change that makes for entertaining TV, that is a major drawback into gaining acceptance for the theory.

Gore kinda got some attention with his presentations. ;)

160 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:22:33pm

re: #151 ralphieboy

The user list shows him/it is still logged on. Its just lurking awaiting its chance to drop another turd.

161 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:23:33pm

re: #160 Bubblehead II

The user list shows him/it is still logged on. Its just lurking awaiting its chance to drip another turd.

Naw. My eternal optimism says that he has turned over a leaf and is taking the time to prepare a well-reasoned, well-researched, and remarkably civil response.
/

162 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:24:02pm

Speaking of trolls, has anyone contacted that Maryland state rep to find out if it really was him dropping all those turds on yesterday's thread, or (more probably) some impersonator?

163 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:24:06pm

re: #159 allegro

Gore kinda got some attention with his presentations. ;)

Yeah but... AlGore!11ty
//

164 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:24:21pm

re: #159 allegro

Gore kinda got some attention with his presentations. ;)

It was interesting but not really what I would call "entertainment", and that is pretty much the sole qualifying factor for anything that appears in the media these days.

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:25:01pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2nd Amendment.

No, no 2nd amendment may cover explosions, but you can't reasonably say it's blowing stuff up just to watch it blow up.

One of the most popular things done in any science demo is the hydrogen balloon and a match-on-a-stick demo.

166 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:25:06pm

re: #161 oaktree

Naw. My eternal optimism says that he has turned over a leaf and is taking the time to prepare a well-reasoned, well-researched, and remarkably civil response.
/

Or he's waiting to see another poster log off so he can then post a response, wait 5 minutes, then act pissy that the poster hasn't answered him yet.

167 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:25:20pm

re: #164 ralphieboy

It was interesting but not really what I would call "entertainment", and that is pretty much the sole qualifying factor for anything that appears in the media these days.

How about doing Gould's _The Mismeasurement of Man_ using supermodels?

168 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:25:26pm

re: #161 oaktree

Naw. My eternal optimism says that he has turned over a leaf and is taking the time to prepare a well-reasoned, well-researched, and remarkably civil response.
/

Is what ever you are ingesting/inhaling detectable in a drug test? If not, share with the rest of us.

169 Idle Drifter  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:25:31pm

re: #154 EmmmieG

There's a level of satisfaction of tight groupings at several distant targets. The smell of gunpowder burning. The kick of a heavy rifle. The look of everyone's face when they see the numbers.

170 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:26:17pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

No, no 2nd amendment may cover explosions, but you can't reasonably say it's blowing stuff up just to watch it blow up.

One of the most popular things done in any science demo is the hydrogen balloon and a match-on-a-stick demo.

We chucked reactive metals into water. Thumb sized chunks of sodium into a bucket of water.

171 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:26:43pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

Oh hai, I was hoping you'd show up :) Can you tell me if this is a journal that does rigorous peer review? Or is more informal, like a magazine?

Bulletin of Science, Technology & Society

I ask because I believe they just published some Koch-funded propaganda...

Your link doesn't work...

But I took the time to look them up since I had never heard of them (which should tell you something). Their homepage has the following:

Bulletin of Science, Technology & Society

Bulletin of Science, Technology & Society (BSTS), peer-reviewed and published bi-monthly, provides a means of communication within as wide of a spectrum of the STS community as possible, including faculty and students from sciences, engineering, the humanities, and social science. Its scope is that which is of value in STS pedagogy at either the university or K-12 level.

Let's look at the red flags all over the place in this mission statement:

1. So what do you cover? Everything?
2. What is the Science, Technology and Society community? How does one join? What are the requirements?
3. Its scope is that which is of value in STS pedagogy at either the university or K-12 level So you are writing articles to teach people, that is what pedagogy means, from kindergarten through university! Really there are journals about how to teach. But any scientific journal cares about reporting results to professionals! Teaching is left for textbooks.
4. Perusing their articles shows a definite political bias.

So I don't want to badmouth a little journal I have never heard of before too much... but no one in it is anyone I know of, they don't come from places I have heard of as being particular centers of research and a lot of the stuff in it looks suspicious.

They are also hard to find information about as an organization on the web. This is particularly bad news.

Compare that to an actual top flight journal like Physical Review.

You can instantly find that they are published by the American Physical Society. You can find that what they care about is current physics research. You can look through any number of top flight researchers presenting their latest work.

172 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:27:37pm

re: #170 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We chucked reactive metals into water. Thumb sized chunks of sodium into a bucket of water.

See? Science.

Science go boom.

Science go boom and sometimes make pretty colors and smoke you do NOT want to breathe.

173 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:27:50pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

Oh hai, I was hoping you'd show up :) Can you tell me if this is a journal that does rigorous peer review? Or is it more informal, like a magazine?

Bulletin of Science, Technology & Society

I ask because I believe they just published some Koch-funded propaganda...

It doesn't look to be a serious science journal. I don't think it's reviewed and it claims to be a teaching aid.

174 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:28:26pm

re: #169 Idle Drifter

There's a level of satisfaction of tight groupings at several distant targets. The smell of gunpowder burning. The kick of a heavy rifle. The look of everyone's face when they see the numbers.

Blaming your dad for not zeroing your rifle for you, constantly cutting between camera shots until they edit the target to the ground for you...

175 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:29:04pm

re: #162 Alouette

Speaking of trolls, has anyone contacted that Maryland state rep to find out if it really was him dropping all those turds on yesterday's thread, or (more probably) some impersonator?

Not I. I felt bad for a few minutes for outing him, but then I realized he's posting under his own name, so it's not like he was trying to be anonymous. But of course it could be an impersonator.

I don't want to email him, though.

176 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:29:04pm

re: #169 Idle Drifter

There's a level of satisfaction of tight groupings at several distant targets. The smell of gunpowder burning. The kick of a heavy rifle. The look of everyone's face when they see the numbers.

Gamer/psychological question here. It seems to me that there are two schools of mayhem regarding combat to some degree. Some who think the close-range face-to-face melee is the "coolest". While others regard the long-range sniper "one shot, one kill" mode as preferable.

From my gaming/simulation past I seem to favor the latter.

And I presume the WH40K folk have some input to make. :)

177 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:29:16pm

re: #172 EmmmieG

See? Science.

Science go boom.

Science go boom and sometimes make pretty colors and smoke you do NOT want to breathe.

GOP seems to have little trouble with the kind of science that involves blowing things up, especially mud-walled villages in the Middle East.

178 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:29:16pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

Nah, try the Oxy/Acetylene in a balloon demo. Much more fun. (H.S. Welding Instructor showing us what can happen if you weren't careful when lighting a torch)

179 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:29:17pm

re: #172 EmmmieG

See? Science.

Science go boom.

Science go boom and sometimes make pretty colors and smoke you do NOT want to breathe.

The obligatory giving the new guy a styrofoam cup and telling him to go get you some acetone...

180 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:29:30pm

re: #151 ralphieboy

he sees that he cannot talk any sense into us, he has moved on to big government or atlas shrugged...

Sorry for mixing you up with him, I'm so embarrassed.

I could post pictures.

181 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:31:02pm

re: #176 oaktree

Gamer/psychological question here. It seems to me that there are two schools of mayhem regarding combat to some degree. Some who think the close-range face-to-face melee is the "coolest". While others regard the long-range sniper "one shot, one kill" mode is preferable.

From my gaming/simulation past I seem to favor the latter.

And I presume the WH40K folk have some input to make. :)

You let your ranged units keep the enemies pinned down so your assault units don't have to chase the prey down.

182 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:31:25pm

re: #161 oaktree

Naw. My eternal optimism says that he has turned over a leaf and is taking the time to prepare a well-reasoned, well-researched, and remarkably civil response.
/

I love a good joke, even if it is just the implication of a joke, but this is way overboard.

183 Idle Drifter  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:31:56pm

re: #174 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Blaming your dad for not zeroing your rifle for you, constantly cutting between camera shots until they edit the target to the ground for you...

I feel sorry for your childhood. ;)

184 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:32:22pm

re: #163 makeitstop

Yeah but... AlGore!11ty
//

He's fat.
He puts out CO2.

185 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:32:41pm

re: #162 Alouette

I considered it, but then got busy. He apparently ran for a different seat last year and lost, so he's no longer a rep. If it wasn't really him, he's probably gonna be mighty pissed. I'm not convinced it was him since I read several articles about him, and where he works & lives is public knowledge, so it would be the height of stupidity for him to pull such a stunt as the guy here yesterday did.

186 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:33:27pm

re: #178 Bubblehead II

Nah, try the Oxy/Acetylene in a balloon demo. Much more fun. (H.S. Welding Instructor showing us what can happen if you weren't carefully when lighting a torch)

We had a chemistry teacher who had lost his left hand years earlier in a car accident. His introductory lecture included a rubber glove filled with hamburger meat and liquid nitrogen.

187 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:33:29pm

re: #172 EmmmieG

Science go boom and sometimes make pretty colors and smoke you do NOT want to breathe.

One the creepy/hilarious things when reading about early pioneers of chemistry is how often they were sniffing/tasting their chemicals and writing detailed descriptions so that other chemists would know how their toluene *should* taste is synthesized properly.

re: #175 wrenchwench

Not I. I felt bad for a few minutes for outing him, but then I realized he's posting under his own name, so it's not like he was trying to be anonymous. But of course it could be an impersonator.

I don't want to email him, though.

I find it weird that he'd use his own name and have his data up, but in discussion get edgy and offended when questioned about being dalil, et cetera.

188 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:33:34pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

No, no 2nd amendment may cover explosions, but you can't reasonably say it's blowing stuff up just to watch it blow up.

One of the most popular things done in any science demo is the hydrogen balloon and a match-on-a-stick demo.

I'm collecting ferrous oxide and aluminum powder so I can burn a hole through something.

189 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:34:01pm

re: #183 Idle Drifter

I feel sorry for your childhood. ;)

Wasn't me (points to caribou barbie)

190 Idle Drifter  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:34:13pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We had a chemistry teacher who had lost his left hand years earlier in a car accident. His introductory lecture included a rubber glove filled with hamburger meat and liquid nitrogen.

Did he use a hammer?

191 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:35:04pm

re: #179 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The obligatory giving the new guy a styrofoam cup and telling him to go get you some acetone...

That could get messy in a hurry.

192 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:35:24pm

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You let your ranged units keep the enemies pinned down so your assault units don't have to chase the prey down.

Taking joy in proper use of combined arms is also to be appreciated.
:)

193 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:36:00pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We had a chemistry teacher who had lost his left hand years earlier in a car accident. His introductory lecture included a rubber glove filled with hamburger meat and liquid nitrogen.

Sounds like something from V

194 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:36:44pm

re: #188 b_sharp

I'm collecting ferrous oxide and aluminum powder so I can burn a hole through something.

Homemade thermite.

//Want a recipe?

195 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:37:04pm

re: #188 b_sharp

I'm collecting ferrous oxide and aluminum powder so I can burn a hole through something.

My father had stories about using thermite mixtures to weld a trolley to the track while going to college in Pittsburgh in the 50s. Engineering students are truly a dangerous bunch.

196 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:38:00pm

Update: San Antonio courthouse break-in may be just a prank, police say

San Antonio authorities say five Moroccan men caught breaking into a downtown courthouse early Wednesday appeared to be pranksters, not terrorists.

Surveillance video from inside the courthouse showed two of the men wearing sombreros and waving a gavel, according to Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff, who gave a briefing outside the courthouse Wednesday. He said the men appeared to "just be some guys on a prank."

197 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:38:22pm

re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks - by the way, I fixed the link, but you probably replied to my un-edited post (not sure if you noticed, but there's a little "pencil" icon for our comments now, and last night, Charles extended the editing-permitted time from 2 minutes to 10! Yay, PIMF posts no more! :) )

As for the "journal", this is the red flag study I was referring to. Basically a long screed smearing Ontario's green energy program. One of the authors is a columnist for the right-wing rag "Financial Post" newspaper (which has published AGW-denying dreck before). The other author is an agriculture professor who, like the infamous Ivar Gaeiver, is also fond of shilling for Koch-funded organizations: Glenn Fox - Fraser Institute

What's the Fraser Institute? Basically Canada's version of the execrable Heritage Foundation: Fraser Institute among dozens of climate denial groups funded by oil company, report says

According to the report, the Fraser Institute received US$175,000 from Koch foundations between 2005 and 2008.

“The Fraser Institute publishes in-depth critiques of climate science, including a 110-page report attacking the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s Fourth Assessment report,” the Greenpeace report states. “They also offer lesson plans and educational materials designed to encourage children to be skeptical of mainstream climate science.”

Pretty rancid, eh? :/

198 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:38:43pm

re: #190 Idle Drifter

Did he use a hammer?

"Now here we have liquid nitrogen...oops... Okay, nobody panic, we just have to... DANG IT!"

199 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:39:01pm

re: #194 Bubblehead II

Homemade thermite.

//Want a recipe

They're on the web. You just have to wish real hard ... and Google.

When you find it, make it and use it, don't forget to post the vid so we can all go ooh and aah over it. I'll do the same.

200 freetoken  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:39:11pm
...we’ve now seen several of these gabfests unfold without a single mention of one of the Republican Party’s biggest and most irrational problems — their total rejection of science in many important areas.

The irrationality permeates their entire discussions at these gatherings. For example, the candidates will decry the state of the nation's economic activity (though they usually wrongfully just say "the economy" to simplify their words as much as possible) and blame Obama; Mitt did that over and over and stating that the President was responsible for the economy the last three years, and if Obama would have just done something different then the US would be better off.

And then they go right ahead and spout off "conservative" truthisms about this or that economic idea and how they would do something different... at the same time claiming that government shouldn't do anything.

Their illogic works like this:
Obama did what was wrong +
I would do something different +
Government shouldn't do anything.

The only person who tries to consistent about this is Ron Paul, and indeed I suspect that one reason so many of the candidates seem to be moving their rhetoric more towards Paulianism is that they realize the internal conflict between the statements "I as President want to do X,Y, and Z" and "Government really shouldn't exist."

It's the Tea Party-rific get the government hand off my social security level of cognitive dissonance.

201 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:39:26pm

re: #195 oaktree

My father had stories about using thermite mixtures to weld a trolley to the track while going to college in Pittsburgh in the 50s. Engineering students are truly a dangerous bunch.

But funny.

202 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:40:16pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Update: San Antonio courthouse break-in may be just a prank, police say

Don't worry - shrieking harpy's all over this story. She'll get to the bottom of their secret stealth jihadi Muslim supremacist motivations.

203 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:40:36pm

re: #185 CuriousLurker

I considered it, but then got busy. He apparently ran for a different seat last year and lost, so he's no longer a rep. If it wasn't really him, he's probably gonna be mighty pissed. I'm not convinced it was him since I read several articles about him, and where he works & lives is public knowledge, so it would be the height of stupidity for him to pull such a stunt as the guy here yesterday did.

I thought his Wikipedia page said he was the incumbent. Wait --could Wikipedia be wrong?

204 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:41:21pm

re: #203 wrenchwench

I thought his Wikipedia page said he was the incumbent. Wait --could Wikipedia be wrong?

Who are we talking about and what did I miss?

205 Gus  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:41:23pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Update: San Antonio courthouse break-in may be just a prank, police say

Too late!

LOL Stupid anti-Jihadist right wingers. Especially Geller.

206 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:41:49pm

re: #202 Charles

Sombreros. That proves the Iran-Morocco-Mexico link.

207 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:41:58pm

Lazer. Jobs. Yadda yadda yadda.

208 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:42:53pm

re: #202 Charles

Don't worry - shrieking harpy's all over this story. She'll get to the bottom of their secret stealth jihadi Muslim supremacist motivations.

Some of the guys were on the terror watchlist. They were drunk too. Strange story.

209 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:43:05pm

re: #201 b_sharp

But funny.

A fun bunch for the most part. Tend to study hard weekdays and then party hard on weekends. They have a tendancy to combine intelligence, desire for fun, with the inexperience of youth and some lack to understand consequences. So you get some brilliant things that are massively entertaining, but also unfortunately some stunts that go massively wrong and get people hurt.

210 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:43:14pm

re: #194 Bubblehead II

Homemade thermite.

//Want a recipe?

Still haven't tried vegamite.

211 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:43:21pm

re: #200 freetoken

My guess would be that they really want to say 'it's the economy stupid!' , but well, you know...Clinton.

212 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:43:48pm

re: #202 Charles

Don't worry - shrieking harpy's all over this story. She'll get to the bottom of their secret stealth jihadi Muslim supremacist motivations.

I bet they were installing sharia projectors to contaminate the US judicial system.
///

213 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:43:53pm

re: #206 Obdicut

Sombreros. That proves the Iran-Morocco-Mexico link.

lol. They were probably drinking Mexican beer.
Dos Equis Ackbar!

214 Gus  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:44:09pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Some of the guys were on the terror watchlist. They were drunk too. Strange story.

A lot of people wind up on the terror watchlist. It may or may not mean a thing.

215 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:44:13pm

re: #197 publicityStunted

Thanks - by the way, I fixed the link, but you probably replied to my un-edited post (not sure if you noticed, but there's a little "pencil" icon for our comments now, and last night, Charles extended the editing-permitted time from 2 minutes to 10! Yay, PIMF posts no more! :) )

As for the "journal", this is the red flag study I was referring to. Basically a long screed smearing Ontario's green energy program. One of the authors is a columnist for the right-wing rag "Financial Post" newspaper (which has published AGW-denying dreck before). The other author is an agriculture professor who, like the infamous Ivar Gaeiver, is also fond of shilling for Koch-funded organizations: Glenn Fox - Fraser Institute

What's the Fraser Institute? Basically Canada's version of the execrable Heritage Foundation: Fraser Institute among dozens of climate denial groups funded by oil company, report says

Pretty rancid, eh? :/

Well there you have it.

This "bulletin" is nothing more than a propaganda front trying to steal the legitimacy of actual science by aping its publications.

216 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:44:17pm

re: #122 recusancy

Probably meant Dawkins

Much later, yes, I reversed the names. Sorry.

217 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:44:48pm

re: #210 Amory Blaine

Still haven't tried vegamite.

I'm pretty sure weaponized vegamite would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

218 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:44:58pm

re: #199 b_sharp

Already have one. From around 1975. As well as a recipe for flash powder and a few other odds and ends. As for a video, I don't think so. :-)

219 freetoken  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:45:33pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

Oh hai, I was hoping you'd show up :) Can you tell me if this is a journal that does rigorous peer review? Or is it more informal, like a magazine?

Bulletin of Science, Technology & Society

I ask because I believe they just published some Koch-funded propaganda...

Many publishers will print almost anything, and "journals" are no exception when they are done by for-profit organizations.

220 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:46:25pm

re: #197 publicityStunted

Thanks - by the way, I fixed the link, but you probably replied to my un-edited post (not sure if you noticed, but there's a little "pencil" icon for our comments now, and last night, Charles extended the editing-permitted time from 2 minutes to 10! Yay, PIMF posts no more! :) )

As for the "journal", this is the red flag study I was referring to. Basically a long screed smearing Ontario's green energy program. One of the authors is a columnist for the right-wing rag "Financial Post" newspaper (which has published AGW-denying dreck before). The other author is an agriculture professor who, like the infamous Ivar Gaeiver, is also fond of shilling for Koch-funded organizations: Glenn Fox - Fraser Institute

What's the Fraser Institute? Basically Canada's version of the execrable Heritage Foundation: Fraser Institute among dozens of climate denial groups funded by oil company, report says

Pretty rancid, eh? :/

Yeah... I am also not surprised... the stated aim of teaching kiddies k-12 from a "scientific journal" smacks of propaganda. So does the fact that it is very difficult to find out who funds them. It all smacks of right wing front group and the articles you've mentioned nail it.

221 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:47:01pm

re: #219 freetoken

Many publishers will print almost anything, and "journals" are no exception when they are done by for-profit organizations.

It's just the Koch clan practicing trickle-down economics for the liberal elites. Gotta let them have a little bit of cash to keep them off the streets.
//

222 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:47:03pm

re: #204 b_sharp

Who are we talking about and what did I miss?

This guy. That's his first comment from yesterday, and his second ever.

223 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:47:15pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Some of the guys were on the terror watchlist. They were drunk too. Strange story.

Last report I saw, there were more than a million people on the various terror watch lists. That alone doesn't mean much any more.

224 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:47:45pm

re: #223 Charles

Last report I saw, there were more than a million people on the various terror watch lists. That alone doesn't mean much any more.

Many of them are under the age of 8. It truly means very little unfortunately.

225 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:47:56pm

re: #210 Amory Blaine

Still haven't tried vegamite.

It is an acquired taste. Tried it when I was in Australia in 1983. Bleh.

226 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:48:05pm

re: #202 Charles

Don't worry - shrieking harpy's all over this story. She'll get to the bottom of their secret stealth jihadi Muslim supremacist motivations.

I want to know more about the sombreros. And the gavel.

227 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:49:09pm

re: #226 makeitstop

I want to know more about the sombreros. And the gavel.

Probably dispensing sharia justice on an immodest pinata.

228 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:49:36pm

Have we gotten confirmation that the guys are actually on a watch list? As opposed to just having the same name as someone on a list?

229 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:50:53pm

Geert Wilders joins the Occupy movement. I wonder how Pam is going to take it?
'Occupy Wall Street' protest becomes a riot in Rome

One of the organiser, who gave his name as Freddie, said the one unifying demand of most protesters was "the total reform of the financial system". Despite the leftwing rhetoric of many of those present, the organiser said that all were welcome, including supporters of the Netherlands' right-wing firebrand Geert Wilders. "We have no political colour, we are open to all," he said.

230 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:51:41pm

re: #203 wrenchwench

I thought his Wikipedia page said he was the incumbent. Wait --could Wikipedia be wrong?

Heh. Well, he was an incumbent, but then he decided to run against another incumbent for (I think it was) a state senate seat. He lost.

You shouldn't feel bad since he (or the guy posing as him as the case may be), is the one who did the outing by linking to his FB page. Maybe the guy that was here is a stalker/fan of his and he's not even aware of what's going on, so being outed & contacted could be a good thing.

If it was really him, then he's an idiot and the people of MD are lucky he lost.

231 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:51:43pm

re: #218 Bubblehead II

Already have one. From around 1975. As well as a recipe for flash powder and a few other odds and ends. As for a video, I don't think so. :-)

Email it to me. Muuaahhh. Muuaahh. (that's my evil laugh)

232 Gus  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:52:00pm

Can't you people see?!?! Clearly this wasn't just a prank! This was yet another DRY RUN perpetrated by terrorist members of the Religion of Peace!!11ty

233 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:52:11pm

re: #219 freetoken

Many publishers will print almost anything, and "journals" are no exception when they are done by for-profit organizations.

True, but peer reviewed journals, which this purports to be, will not, by definition, print just anything. It's a sham journal.

234 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:52:25pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

Geert Wilders joins the Occupy movement. I wonder how Pam is going to take it?
'Occupy Wall Street' protest becomes a riot in Rome

Rome can have him. I'd keep him far away from any OWS camps in the US, though. The distance from NYC to Rome seems about right.

235 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:53:11pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

Geert Wilders joins the Occupy movement. I wonder how Pam is going to take it?
'Occupy Wall Street' protest becomes a riot in Rome

Interesting.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:54:07pm

re: #56 Beltboy

Or the fact that only one man and one woman can create a child-- the whole reason for marriage and the founding of the family-- is just a discrimatory civil rights issue.

I love the way the entire history of marriage gets rewritten to try to support this idea.

237 Gus  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:54:15pm

Geert Wilders likes to eat chicken. Therefore, anyone that likes to eat chicken agrees with Geert Wilders.

//

238 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:54:21pm

re: #228 BishopX

Have we gotten confirmation that the guys are actually on a watch list? As opposed to just having the same name as someone on a list?

re: #234 makeitstop

Rome can have him. I'd keep him far away from any OWS camps in the US, though.

The reason I googled him is Pam's readers are talking something about a Geert event in the US being cancelled over "threats from CAIR". I doubt he'll make any OWS appearances here.

239 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:54:23pm

re: #230 CuriousLurker

Heh. Well, he was an incumbent, but then he decided to run against another incumbent for (I think it was) a state senate seat. He lost.

You shouldn't feel bad since he (or the guy posing as him as the case may be), is the one who did the outing by linking to his FB page. Maybe the guy that was here is a stalker/fan of his and he's not even aware of what's going on, so being outed & contacted could be a good thing.

If it was really him, then he's an idiot and the people of MD are lucky he lost.

OK, you do it!

240 freetoken  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:54:38pm

re: #233 LudwigVanQuixote

True, but peer reviewed journals, which this purports to be, will not, by definition, print just anything. It's a sham journal.

Ah, but that is my point. "Peer reviewed" doesn't mean as much as it could (or ought) as the editor of the journal gets to select the reviewers. E&E (well known for publishing denialist prop) is supposedly "peer reviewed", for all the good it does.

241 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:55:10pm

re: #56 Beltboy

The science is still out on climate change. There is much tyranny to be imposed if just the process of breathing is having a detrimental effect on the environment.
Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact....
Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to say you are entitled to your own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Today, it should be said that you are entitled to your own facts but you are not entitled to your own truth.

The science is not 'still on climate change.' It's obvious your grasp of reality is 'out' because you are factually incorrect.

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:55:55pm

re: #63 jaunte

Child creation doesn't require a family; any random bastard can tell you that.

And marriage doesn't require children.

Nor do the children of a marriage have to be the biological children of either or both partners.

If we insisted on these things, marriage would look very different.

243 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:56:45pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Update: San Antonio courthouse break-in may be just a prank, police say

I'm guessing the prank stopped being fun once the FBI showed up and the alcohol began to wear off. Idiots.

244 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:56:47pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

Am I correct that your reply to me was just post detritus?

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:56:50pm

re: #75 Beltboy

re: #70 Charles

And the left is dangerously in denial about what programs like "Cap & Trade" will do to the already crippled world economy. Everything from food, fuel, clothing will be in short supply or priced beyond many people's reach! I guess everybody on this thread is rich enough not to worry.

Look who's worried about the poor all of a sudden.

246 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:58:06pm

re: #243 CuriousLurker

I'm guessing the prank stopped being fun once the FBI showed up and the alcohol began to wear off. Idiots.

The feds are such a buzzkill.

247 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:58:25pm

Another new feature needed due to the lengthy edit window: The ability to refresh one comment instead of the whole page. Is that possible?

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:58:31pm

re: #76 b_sharp

Different aspects of the OWS want different things. That's allowed isn't it?

It's allowed, but it also means that they then can't be seriously questioned or pinned down about anything.

Which is fine, but it makes me less interested, less impressed, and certainly, less likely to be involved in any way. Something which seems to baffle many people, certainly some here, who seem to feel that its totally amorphous nature is key to its charm.

249 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:58:43pm

re: #56 Beltboy

I'm amazed at the complete derpiness of your post.
I salute you!
Image: joker.gif

250 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 12:58:59pm

re: #244 BishopX

Am I correct that your reply to me was just post detritus?

Oops, sorry about that.

251 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:00:04pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

The feds are such a buzzkill.

Look, if you're going to run with scissors or play with a stick, eyes will get poked out so having the feds show up is a good thing.

252 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:00:41pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Some of the guys were on the terror watchlist. They were drunk too. Strange story.

If they were drunk then they cannot be true Muslims! Something is terribly amiss here....

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:01:00pm

re: #89 Alouette

Because when Koch Industries control all the food, fuel and clothing in the world, and actively prevent anyone else from producing food, fuel and clothing, they can set whatever price they want! I guess you are totally OK with that.

From the SF Comic today: "Koch Brothers Buy Out World's Largest Protest Sign Manufacturer! Brothers hope the buy-out will be widely protested."

254 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:01:03pm

re: #239 wrenchwench

OK, you do it!

I'm still thinking about it. ;)

255 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:01:27pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Update: San Antonio courthouse break-in may be just a prank, police say

Page these links, dude! Then we can tweet them and post them to Facebook, etc. Even if it's just a link and a quote...

256 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:02:19pm

OT:
That didn't take long. Palestinian woman in Israeli custody after alert security stopped the woman as she brandished a knife and ran towards a group of Israelis in Gush Etzion shouting Allahu Ackbar and Death to Jews. She waited until after the Shalit swap before carrying out the planned attack.

One of the soldiers at the junction who identified the situation as a possible attack pointed his weapon at the woman and shouted in Arabic for her to stop. The woman dropped the knife and dropped to the ground.

Soldiers detained the woman and she was subsequently arrested. No injuries were reported in the incident.

According to the report, the woman told security forces who arrived on the scene that she had come to the junction with the intention of stabbing soldiers. She had waited until the release of Palestinian prisoners in the Gilad Schalit deal before attempting to carry out the attack.

As per Charles' suggestion - it's been paged.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:02:48pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Harvey Urges Parents To Refuse Care For Their Children From Gay Doctors

WTF?

Because even if they wear rubber gloves, the gay might get on little Timmy.

258 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:02:57pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Update: San Antonio courthouse break-in may be just a prank, police say

And drunk.
Sombreros and a gavel?
Oookkkaaayyy.
XD

259 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:03:03pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

It's allowed, but it also means that they then can't be seriously questioned or pinned down about anything.

Which is fine, but it makes me less interested, less impressed, and certainly, less likely to be involved in any way. Something which seems to baffle many people, certainly some here, who seem to feel that its totally amorphous nature is key to its charm.

I'm not sure how charming it is, but insisting it must have a single issue just because of comfort level (not talking about you) isn't much of an argument against it.

260 freetoken  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:03:03pm

Heh, on the topic of Republicans and Science... from today's news:

Virginia Attorney General Questions EPA Conclusion That Greenhouse Gases Are Dangerous

The Environmental Protection Agency's conclusion that greenhouse gases are harmful to people's health has been questioned in court by Virginia's attorney general.

Ken Cuccinelli filed a brief in D.C. Superior Court, claiming the data that the EPA used to make its determination on greenhouse gases was not scientifically sound. Cuccinelli filed the reply brief on behalf of Virginia, Texas, and 13 other states.

"With respect to the original Endangerment Finding, the EPA so pervasively delegated its statutory functions that it lacked the information to ensure that its data quality standards were satisfied," he writes in his filing.

He alleged the EPA used data from the United Nation's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Cuccinelli says the U.N.'s research methods should be further investigated, and cited the "Climategate" emails to call the U.N.'s climate research into question.

[...]

This is the guy of course who went after professor Mann with a witch-hunt, only be be shot down by the courts who saw through that.

261 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:03:59pm

re: #256 lawhawk

OT:
That didn't take long. Palestinian woman in Israeli custody after alert security stopped the woman as she brandished a knife and ran towards a group of Israelis in Gush Etzion shouting Allahu Ackbar and Death to Jews. She waited until after the Shalit swap before carrying out the planned attack.

That kind of thing could get the release of 500 more prisoners canceled, could it not?

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:04:43pm

re: #120 ralphieboy

Trust me on this. No doctor enjoys giving ANYONE a prostate check.

263 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:05:24pm

re: #260 freetoken

Heh, on the topic of Republicans and Science... from today's news:

Virginia Attorney General Questions EPA Conclusion That Greenhouse Gases Are Dangerous

This is the guy of course who went after professor Mann with a witch-hunt, only be be shot down by the courts who saw through that.

Page it!

264 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:05:37pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Trust me on this. No doctor enjoys giving ANYONE a prostate check.

Umm. My urologist sure seems to.

265 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:06:13pm

re: #56 Beltboy


If you're concerned with tyranny, a post about growing income gaps would be more logical.

266 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:06:21pm

re: #256 lawhawk

Trying to page it now, but it's stuck in spinning hamster mode. Might be an issue on my end though. Can't quite tell.

267 freetoken  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:06:50pm

re: #263 Charles

Page it!

Wish I could now but I have to run off to do some time-sensitive chores.

268 Neutral President  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:07:02pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Trust me on this. No doctor enjoys giving ANYONE a prostate check.

There has to be at least one sadist out there somewhere who is a primary care doctor or a urologist.

269 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:07:55pm

re: #268 ArchangelMichael

There has to be at least one sadist out there somewhere who is a primary care doctor or a urologist.

You must have heard my screams.

270 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:08:14pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

No problem, I just wanted to be sure you weren't proposing a drunk-morrocan terrorist-european-ultra-rightwing-nationalist-occupy-movement theory. Because I wouldn't want to miss that!

271 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:08:26pm

re: #260 freetoken

Heh, on the topic of Republicans and Science... from today's news:

Virginia Attorney General Questions EPA Conclusion That Greenhouse Gases Are Dangerous

This is the guy of course who went after professor Mann with a witch-hunt, only be be shot down by the courts who saw through that.

Greenhouse gases not dangerous? Fine. Let Virginia Attorney General Ken Kook-inelli put his money where his mouth is and go swim in Lake Nyos:

On August 21, 1986, possibly triggered by a landslide, Lake Nyos suddenly emitted a large cloud of CO2, which suffocated 1,700 people and 3,500 livestock in nearby towns and villages

(this is my standard response to the "CO2 is safe and all-natural!!1!" herp-derpitude).

272 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:09:05pm

re: #75 Beltboy

re: #70 Charles

And the left is dangerously in denial about what programs like "Cap & Trade" will do to the already crippled world economy. Everything from food, fuel, clothing will be in short supply or priced beyond many people's reach! I guess everybody on this thread is rich enough not to worry.

I missed this bit of dreck...

Some history, science and economics for the clueless:

1. Cap and trade was initially a Ronald Reagan, yes that is St. Ronnie the infallible, initiative that was put into action under Bush Sr. as a "conservative free market plan" to reduce acid rain. Go look it up!

2. Senator McCain and half witted, half governor quitter ran on cap and trade as one of their planks in 2008. McCain and Palin both were quoted as praising it as a "market driven solution" and the conservative commenters at the time pointed out the Reagan lineage of the scheme. Go look it up... Actually this always shocks me. 2008 wasn't that long ago. I recall them saying these things from the time. Why don't you? Why do conservatives seem to have the memories of goldfish?

3. As to hurting the economy, cap and trade is at best stop gap measure in any case. What would actually help the economy would be to create jobs at home in the green energy sector that would make us less dependent on foreign fossil fuels and pump billions of dollars now going overseas to horrible nations that hate us, directly into the struggling American middle class.

4. Independent of your flawed economic arguments... I mean how well is big oil taking care of the average American really... the scientific arguments trump. If most future Americans will be unable to find clean water and enough food to eat as millions of refugees pile in from the coasts and trillions of dollars of our capital is literally washed away while inland, our farms become desert all talk of possible economic woes now become superfluous and stupid. Of course, green energy would be a boon that pays for itself and revitalizes the economy, but you are too stupid to look into that.


But go ahead, shill for big oil, forget history and deny science. Moron.

273 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:11:12pm

re: #260 freetoken

Heh, on the topic of Republicans and Science... from today's news:

Virginia Attorney General Questions EPA Conclusion That Greenhouse Gases Are Dangerous

This is the guy of course who went after professor Mann with a witch-hunt, only be be shot down by the courts who saw through that.

Cuccinelli is one of the particularly rabid dogs of the GOP in this area. There has been more than one thing posted here about his lunacy, but just to give those unfamiliar with him a flavor... he had the Virginia State seal, changed because it had a female breast in it, and that was just too dirty.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:11:38pm

re: #268 ArchangelMichael

There has to be at least one sadist out there somewhere who is a primary care doctor or a urologist.

There was an ad campaign in the Bay Area, years ago, urging men to get regular prostate exams. My favorite one showed a middle-aged man clad only in boxers and socks, barricading himself inside the exam room with all the machines and furniture.

275 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:12:08pm

re: #271 publicityStunted

Greenhouse gases not dangerous? Fine. Let Virginia Attorney General Ken Kook-inelli put his money where his mouth is and go swim in Lake Nyos:

(this is my standard response to the "CO2 is safe and all-natural!!1!" herp-derpitude).

I just suggest we place them in a sealed room with 10% of the nitrogen replaced with CO2.

276 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:12:29pm

re: #268 ArchangelMichael

In my experience that kind of exposure really quickly desexualizes things. After the first 10,000 bungholes you cease to giggle >>

277 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:12:34pm

re: #260 freetoken

Heh, on the topic of Republicans and Science... from today's news:

Virginia Attorney General Questions EPA Conclusion That Greenhouse Gases Are Dangerous

This is the guy of course who went after professor Mann with a witch-hunt, only be be shot down by the courts who saw through that.

That's my AG. Sigh.

278 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:12:39pm

re: #270 BishopX

No problem, I just wanted to be sure you weren't proposing a drunk-morrocan terrorist-european-ultra-rightwing-nationalist-occupy-movement theory. Because I wouldn't want to miss that!

There is an interesting Punjabi- Pittsburgh international communist conspiracy I've discovered.
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

279 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:14:11pm

re: #276 windsagio

In my experience that kind of exposure really quickly desexualizes things. After the first 10,000 bungholes you cease to giggle >>

I always feel sorry for women married to gynecologists.

"I'm sorry honey, but I don't think I can even look at another one today..."

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:14:24pm

re: #278 Killgore Trout

The is an interesting Punjabi- Pittsburgh international communist conspiracy I've discovered.
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

Is this similar to the time Bert from Sesame Street showed up in the Al-Qaeda posters?

281 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:15:01pm

re: #279 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I always feel sorry for women married to gynecologists.

"I'm sorry honey, but I don't think I can even look at another one today..."

Try being married 35 years.

282 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:15:38pm

re: #271 publicityStunted

There you go with those stubborn facts. And it's not just Lake Nyos. It's any limnic eruption where CO2 can decimate animal populations within its radius.

283 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:15:50pm

re: #278 Killgore Trout

ok the (communist) or (c) at the end of those banners made me laugh. They're totally afraid we don't know!

284 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:15:59pm

re: #281 b_sharp

*rimshot*

285 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:16:06pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

Is this similar to the time Bert from Sesame Street showed up in the Al-Qaeda posters?

Heh, that's my theory too. They probably just pulled images off the web and took them to the printers for the signs.

286 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:16:41pm

re: #5 nines09

This might explain it.

Image: saganandsnooki.jpg

So very true!

287 Idle Drifter  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:17:06pm

re: #281 b_sharp

Try being married 35 years.

Till death do us part. You realize after awhile it's not a pledge but a goal.

I hope I didn't screw up Walter's quote.

288 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:17:14pm

re: #284 windsagio

*rimshot*

I thought the double/triple intender (Nanny Ogism) was my schtick.

289 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:17:42pm

re: #286 LudwigVanQuixote

Man how old is that picture of Carl Sagan? There's an impenetrable... 70s feel to that image.

290 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:18:42pm

Rick Santorum finally says something I could agree with, then has to go and ruin it by adding a qualifier.

Rick Santorum Pledges To ‘Die On The Hill’ ... Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage

Had to add in that fighting bit and he lost me.

291 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:19:57pm

re: #290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Santorum finally says something I could agree with, then has to go and ruin it by adding a qualifier.

Rick Santorum Pledges To ‘Die On The Hill’ ... Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage

Had to add in that fighting bit and he lost me.

Couldn't he just fade to black where he is now, under a rock?

292 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:20:43pm

re: #288 b_sharp

I picture you saying it in a Rodney Dangerfield voice.

293 jaunte  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:21:11pm

re: #290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What a goof.

294 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:21:17pm

re: #283 windsagio

ok the (communist) or (c) at the end of those banners made me laugh. They're totally afraid we don't know!

SUCI (C) is the proper acronym of the group. They changed it in 2009 from SUCI proper. Indian socialist groups are just as snipey and nasty as US ones about minor doctrinal stuff--the added (communist) is basically a jab at other socialist groups.

295 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:21:18pm

re: #272 LudwigVanQuixote

Why do conservatives seem to have the memories of goldfish?

When I had an aquarium my fish actually had better memories.

296 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:21:19pm

re: #290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Santorum finally says something I could agree with, then has to go and ruin it by adding a qualifier.

Rick Santorum Pledges To ‘Die On The Hill’ ... Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage

Had to add in that fighting bit and he lost me.

I am glad Rick Santorum is concerned with the pressing issue of the day, gay marriage. Gay marriage is the economy right? What a sad loser this guy is. Rick's there's a reason why even you are too nuts for the nomination.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:21:43pm

The new XKCD cartoon is an instant classic:

[Link: www.xkcd.com...]

298 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:22:38pm

re: #292 windsagio

I picture you saying it in a Rodney Dangerfield voice.

Ouch!

299 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:23:38pm

re: #278 Killgore Trout

There is an interesting Punjabi- Pittsburgh international communist conspiracy I've discovered.
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

The Occupy Pittsburgh photos they're using have to be faked. Not enough Terrible Towels in them.
//

300 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:23:48pm

re: #298 b_sharp

its good, he's actually a funny guy!

re: #294 The Ghost of a Flea

Makes it so... much... better!

301 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:24:33pm

Meanwhile, sanity in Africa:

Botswana HIV: Mogae in call to legalise homosexuality

Mr Mogae said Botswana could not regard homosexuals - a tiny minority in the country - as criminals.

"I don't understand it [homosexuality]. I am a heterosexual," he told the BBC's Network Africa programme.

"I look at women. I don't look at other men. But there are men who look at other men. These are citizens."

He said the government also needed to change its policy towards sex workers to help curb HIV/Aids.

"To protect them and their clients from being infected, you have to assist them to protect themselves. I don't think by arresting them you help them," Mr Mogae said.

He said the government's failure to give prisoners' condoms was worsening the HIV/Aids pandemic.

"If people can go to prison HIV negative and come out of it HIV positive, it means that prisons, whatever the law says, are one of the sources of infection," the former president told Network Africa.

302 b_Snark  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:25:28pm

I have to go get some work done. I'm supposed to be building a server, not goofing off here, but building a server isn't as much fun.

303 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:25:41pm

re: #56 Beltboy

Your atavistic, fundamentalist style of thinking, and those that buy into it, will be going the way of the dodo in the US. Not soon enough for my liking, but soon. I may even be fortunate enough to see it happen in my lifetime.

The Dustbin of History. That is your destiny.

304 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:27:41pm

re: #56 Beltboy

We've got a live Neanderthal here and yet they say evolution is just a theory!

//

(Sorry for the racist Neanderthal comparison. //)

305 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:28:10pm

re: #289 windsagio

Man how old is that picture of Carl Sagan? There's an impenetrable... 70s feel to that image.

Yeah, but hey, that is when he did his series. Besides, the turtle-neck and tweed look is by far the least offensive of any number of fashions from then.

306 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:28:35pm

re: #297 Sergey Romanov

I've done that on occasion, and it can be a fun way to relieve boredom.

307 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:28:46pm

re: #297 Sergey Romanov

The new XKCD cartoon is an instant classic:

[Link: www.xkcd.com...]

Genius.

308 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:28:54pm

re: #290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Santorum finally says something I could agree with, then has to go and ruin it by adding a qualifier.

Rick Santorum Pledges To ‘Die On The Hill’ ... Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage

Had to add in that fighting bit and he lost me.

You gotta remember what is behind their ideology: that America has a special, exceptional relationship to God. That this relationship stems from the fact tht we reflect (their view of) Divine Law in our own laws and constitution.

Should we adopt laws that violate (their view of) Divine Law through allowing abortion, gay marriage, progressive taxation, medical marijuana, gun control, cap and trade, teaching evolution in the shools, etc., we are violating the covenant with God and bringing about our own downfall.

And some would rather die fighting for that.

309 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:28:58pm

re: #290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


"I will visit to every gay bar on capital hill, and all across northern Virginia, to fight for, er, I mean against gay marriage!"
-Santorum //

I think he protests a little too much.

310 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:29:26pm

re: #290 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rick Santorum finally says something I could agree with, then has to go and ruin it by adding a qualifier.

Rick Santorum Pledges To ‘Die On The Hill’ ... Fighting Against Same-Sex Marriage

Had to add in that fighting bit and he lost me.

Promise, Ricky?
//

Besides all the craziness, Santorum's greatest hindrance to higher office is that when he tries to sound tough or authoritative (like when he was attacking the other idiots last night) he comes off sounding whiny, like a spoiled kid.

I get the feeling he was one of those kids who caught a lot of smacks on the back of the head in school.

311 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:29:26pm

re: #305 LudwigVanQuixote

heh its awesome but just also makes me feel old. That's how I'll always think of him.

"Milliyuns and Milliyuns of years ago...."

312 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:31:39pm

re: #295 Naso Tang

When I had an aquarium my fish actually had better memories.

Yeah, I just don't get it. I mean McCain and Palin were all over the news in speech after speech going on about cap and trade as their conservative answer to Obama supposedly harsh AGW policies. Then it turned out that all Obama was really gunning for himself was cap and trade, and it suddenly became cap and tax...

It isn't as if we don't all live in America and watch the news and hear the same speeches by these politicians.

It takes a special kind of numbskull to be in the GOP these days.

313 alpuz  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:31:55pm

Carl Sagan-Family Guy

Youtube Video
314 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:32:10pm

Because cable news needs to be dismantled the way wall street needs to be dismantled

315 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:33:42pm

So Perry is trying to under cut Herman Cain with a Flat Income Tax now.

The stupid gets stronger.

316 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:35:59pm

re: #314 WindUpBird

Because cable news needs to be dismantled the way wall street needs to be dismantled

From a Facebook friend:

Network news is to journalism what pro-wrestling is to athleticism, equally obnoxious and sensational (the bad kind of sensational)

Or, OWS coverage in picture form...

317 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:36:46pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Harvey Urges Parents To Refuse Care For Their Children From Gay Doctors

WTF?

If any Confederate parent thinks they can isolate their kid from every gay or lesbian nurse or doctor in the health care system...

well, maybe they should home-doctor their kid themselves, because that just ain't possible :D

SORRY PIGS, THE GAY IS IN THE HEALTH CARE, HO HO HO

318 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:38:25pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

The feds are such a buzzkill.

Sounds like they got a first-class trip in the Party Van...
Image: fbi-party-van.jpg

319 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:38:46pm

re: #315 BishopX

Paged

320 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:38:55pm

re: #317 WindUpBird

What's the worry? If they can pray the gay away, they can pray the sick away too.
//

321 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:39:47pm

re: #315 BishopX

So Perry is trying to under cut Herman Cain with a Flat Income Tax now.

The stupid gets stronger.

The stupid is strong with that one.

322 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:40:13pm

re: #320 OhNoZombies!

We have a group in Oregon that tries that all the time, unfortunately, as 2-3 couples a year find out, it often doesn't work.

323 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:40:48pm

re: #320 OhNoZombies!

What's the worry? If they can pray the gay away, they can pray the sick away too.
//

it just cracks me up, from my health care worker days, we had gay people working EVERYWHERE in our non-profit. in management, as nurses, as staff...

324 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:41:07pm

re: #315 BishopX

So Perry is trying to under cut Herman Cain with a Flat Income Tax now.

The stupid gets stronger.

Flat tax proposals have been around for a long time

It's what Steve Forbes tried to run on in the 90's

325 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:42:07pm

re: #323 WindUpBird

to be frank we kind of had a gay illuminati in that company for a while. The straight managers I knew had a hell of a time.

326 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:42:17pm

re: #324 sattv4u2

Flat tax proposals have been around for a long time

It's what Steve Forbes tried to run on in the 90's

It's not flat, just a little low on air.
/

327 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:43:23pm

re: #317 WindUpBird

maybe they should home-doctor their kid themselves

Wouldn't be even slightly surprised to see home-doctorin' arise as a way for Real Americans to avoid gay secular Muslim socialist elitist ACORN medicine.

328 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:43:38pm

re: #324 sattv4u2

Flat tax proposals have been around for a long time

It's what Steve Forbes tried to run on in the 90's

Perry hired Forbes as an adviser....

329 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:44:45pm

So, we just got a nasty email from a senior manager who was bitching why we left off the NETBIOS names for a scan of Unix systems.

Hmm

330 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:46:30pm

re: #327 negativ

Wouldn't be even slightly surprised to see home-doctorin' arise as a way for Real Americans to avoid gay secular Muslim socialist elitist ACORN medicine.

They can pay in chickens.

331 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:46:33pm

re: #315 BishopX

So Perry is trying to under cut Herman Cain with a Flat Income Tax now.

The stupid gets stronger.

Apparently, the GOP asked a german economist if a flat taxable was viable. He responded "NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!", so they decided to run with it.

332 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:48:14pm

re: #325 windsagio

to be frank we kind of had a gay illuminati in that company for a while. The straight managers I knew had a hell of a time.

ahahaha oh we totally did!

333 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:49:12pm

re: #327 negativ

Wouldn't be even slightly surprised to see home-doctorin' arise as a way for Real Americans to avoid gay secular Muslim socialist elitist ACORN medicine.

until a kid got a broken leg, then knock knock on the door comes child protective services

334 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:50:57pm

re: #322 windsagio

I wonder how many died from easily preventable illnesses, like the ones most kids get vaccinated against ?

335 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:52:06pm

re: #329 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, we just got a nasty email from a senior manager who was bitching why we left off the NETBIOS names for a scan of Unix systems.

Is this him?
Image: V3H6O.jpg

336 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:52:23pm

re: #333 WindUpBird

or to be less funny, when the kid dies.

There were, at last count, at least 79 children buried in the Followers of Christ cemetery in Oregon City. The Worthington trial was about providing hope -- and medical care -- to children who otherwise might become numbers 80, 81, 82, and beyond.

337 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:53:11pm

Eric Cantor and revolutionary "take the country back" rhetoric of the GOP exposed and pwned for the rank hypocrisy it is over OWS......

Comedy Central Video

FFS - why isn't the Real Media running these clips of lickspittle republican toadies back to back with each other.

338 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:54:35pm

re: #315 BishopX

So Perry is trying to under cut Herman Cain with a Flat Income Tax now.

The stupid gets stronger.

so let me get this straight

one way or another, the gop will be running next year on these tax proposals:

- shift income taxes from wealthier people down to the middle class and 47% of people not now paying income tax

- no extension of payroll tax break but more agitation to reduce capital gains and extension of bush cuts for millionaires

and they think the american people are gonna like this why???

339 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:55:37pm

re: #335 negativ

Is this him?
Image: V3H6O.jpg

Nah, here he is

340 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:56:43pm

re: #339 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don't care what you say I want to party with that guy.

341 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:57:04pm

re: #338 engineer dog

so let me get this straight

one way or another, the gop will be running next year on these tax proposals:

- shift income taxes from wealthier people down to the middle class and 47% of people not now paying income tax

- no extension of payroll tax break but more agitation to reduce capital gains and extension of bush cuts for millionaires

and they think the american people are gonna like this why???

Because all you have to say to the American people is that liberals don't want something, and they will angrily demand that they themselves get hurt just so liberals are upset.

342 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:57:09pm

re: #338 engineer dog

they think the american people are gonna like this why???

Jesus.

343 BishopX  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 1:57:46pm

re: #338 engineer dog

Their convinced that the simultaneous orgasm of every small minded penny pincher who looks at the three page long tax code will bury the people who stop to think it through.

344 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:01:06pm

re: #336 windsagio

Is it wrong for me to say those kids don't deserve their parents ?
What kind of person would allow their child to suffer like that?
Bet they're 'pro-life' too.

345 windsagio  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:01:54pm

re: #344 OhNoZombies!

Well who does abortions?

Doctors, that's who!

346 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:02:17pm

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Harvey Urges Parents To Refuse Care For Their Children From Gay Doctors

WTF?

My neurologist is gay and i wouldn't want any other doctor treating me for my brain injury.

:)

347 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:03:59pm

re: #345 windsagio

I'm starting to get a dent in my desk from repeatedly banging my head against it.

348 Donna Ballard  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:04:02pm

re: #338 engineer dog

so let me get this straight

one way or another, the gop will be running next year on these tax proposals:

- shift income taxes from wealthier people down to the middle class and 47% of people not now paying income tax

- no extension of payroll tax break but more agitation to reduce capital gains and extension of bush cuts for millionaires

and they think the american people are gonna like this why???

I'll tell you why. They think John Q. Public is stupid and that were a bunch of sheep that'll follow them where they lead. The problem is I'm afraid that, for the most part, they're right. Before she passed away my Aunt Linda would hear no wrong about her precious politicians of choice, no matter what they did or what they said they had to be right because, after all, they were elected, weren't they? And, for the most part, a majority of the public is the same way. Very sad to say. *sadly I shake my head*

349 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:08:06pm

re: #102 Charles

I would say that evolution is not a theory. Theory of evolution is a theory. Evolution is a fact explained by the same theory.

350 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:08:19pm

re: #347 OhNoZombies!

I'm starting to get a dent in my desk from repeatedly banging my head against it.

I would think after the 1st sign of a dent you'd alter your reaction!
/

351 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:08:33pm

re: #347 OhNoZombies!

I'm starting to get a dent in my desk from repeatedly banging my head against it.

Brace yourself

Gingrich’s Plan To Stop Foreclosures: Repeal Wall Street Reform

You have to repeal the Dodd-Frank bill, because the way the Dodd-Frank bill works, it dramatically, regulates the banks, it sends a signal to the regulators to tell them not to make the loans, not to roll over the money, and in effect it encourages foreclosures and encourages the bank actually seizing the property. So until you repeal the Dodd-Frank bill, which I think the House Republicans ought to do this week, I mean this is a terrible bill which is killing housing, it is killing small banks, it is killing small businesses, and it ought to be repealed. The minute you do that, literally, the minute you do that, it’s going to be easier for people to work their way out, you’ll have a dramatic decline in foreclosures.

352 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:13:19pm

Apparently the new pro-life position is to welcome pollution and fight corporate regulations, for the children.

Beisner said that it was more important to leave polluters unregulated. He insisted that regulations against pollution were actually going to kill people and that his pro-corporate view is the real “pro-life” position. He went on to say that advocates of environmental protection want to deliberately weaken the economy because “the environmental movement hates human prosperity”:

These were people who frankly didn’t know the science behind it, all they saw was that babies were endangered and they wanted to protect these babies. Well of course we would want to protect the babies but the science isn’t good and so consequently the EEN has succeeded, at least temporarily anyway, in fostering the notion that this is a pro-life cause. It's not a pro-life cause if anything the opposite is a pro-life cause because whereas the current levels of mercury admissions are not causing any deaths to anyone, the reduced economic output for this country will indeed increase premature deaths among the American population.

…

The real aim is to try to get us to use less energy overall because energy fuels a prosperous economy and the environmental movement hates human prosperity because it sees it as a threat to the environment.

353 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:13:48pm

re: #350 sattv4u2

Sadly, it's become a reflex.
Inhale, read the latest craziness, crack head on desk, exhale.
//

354 erik_t  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:15:12pm

re: #351 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just on basic principle, one has to be tripping balls to buy into anything Newt says. This one is even a little nuttier than most.

355 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:17:34pm

re: #351 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Woohoo! No blood this time...
Thanks for the heads up !

356 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:18:57pm

re: #353 OhNoZombies!

Didn't some guy by the name of Pavlov do experiments along that line?

// It is an evil plot to cause those who can actually think for themselves to self induce brain damage and then become mindless followers.

357 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:23:10pm

re: #356 Bubblehead II

I believe you may be on to something...

358 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:24:44pm

Going upstairs.

359 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 2:31:19pm

re: #336 windsagio

or to be less funny, when the kid dies.

christ hated medicine apparently?

360 Lidane  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:15:50pm

re: #113 ArchangelMichael

Evolution is a fact. How it happens is the theory.

THIS. Always and forever, THIS.

Denial of evolution is denial of reality and of facts. It's also a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works.

361 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:28:22pm

re: #272 LudwigVanQuixote

Oooh. Ludwig. You are an arrogant drone, aren't you?
Cap & Trade is an obvious bad idea. No matter who came up with it.
McCain was such a disaster candidate that we have the current disaster living in the white house. Nuf Sed on that.
Green jobs would be great!! But guess what? They haven't invented a functioning solar/wind/fart power car yet, so guess what else? Yeah, I need oil. Just like millions of other Americans do because that's what our cars run on and that's what heats our homes (guess you didn't know that).
I'm not shilling for "big oil". Finally, the green jobs are going to be elusive because the rare earth minerals used to make solar panels especially are found in abundance in China. So we're going to be going to foriegners for our "green" unless we find the right kind of "green". We need more research for the future and we need more oil right now

362 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:29:56pm

re: #306 Slumbering Behemoth

Back to bed with ya!

363 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:30:38pm

re: #361 Beltboy

Some carriage returns would make your incoherent gibberish easier to read, chump

364 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:33:27pm

re: #363 WindUpBird

Some carriage returns would make your incoherent gibberish easier to read, chump

Um. You're using words which contain more than 4 letters. Quite futile.

365 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:35:39pm

re: #364 Sergey Romanov

Nothing but Ad Hominem, eh? Which means of course I'm right. Or you are the one that is just not that bright.

366 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:36:38pm

re: #365 Beltboy

Nothing but Ad Hominem, eh? Which means of course I'm right. Or you are the one that is just not that bright.

Dood. You're an evolution denier. 'Nuff said.

367 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:37:25pm

re: #365 Beltboy

Nothing but Ad Hominem, eh? Which means of course I'm right. Or you are the one that is just not that bright.

BREAKING NEWS: INSIGNIFICANT BLOG COMMENTER CRIES AD HOMINEM


very original, a tip of the hat to you sir

368 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:37:50pm

re: #366 Sergey Romanov

I never said I "denied" evolution.
At least READ the post before commenting.

369 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:39:01pm

re: #367 WindUpBird

Ad Hominem is much older than you think. In fact it's a LATIN phrase. I wasn't trying to be original. I was being honest.

370 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:40:28pm

re: #369 Beltboy

Ad Hominem is much older than you think. In fact it's a LATIN phrase. I wasn't trying to be original. I was being honest.

It's like I'm talking to a dog :D

Roll over, boy! Go fetch the talking point!

371 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:41:13pm

re: #361 Beltboy

Oooh. Ludwig. You are an arrogant drone, aren't you?

Yes, I am quite short with morons who have projection issues. I am also someone who actually knows what he is talking about here.

Cap & Trade is an obvious bad idea. No matter who came up with it.

Case in point. It was actually very effective in reducing acid rain.

McCain was such a disaster candidate that we have the current disaster living in the white house. Nuf Sed on that.

Irrelevant to your initial nonsense, but I would think the thought of Palin being in line for the presidency did much more harm to the GOP bid.

Green jobs would be great!! But guess what? They haven't invented a functioning solar/wind/fart power car yet, so guess what else?

As a matter of fact, electric cars are available and getting better each year, but more to the point, distributed wind energy comprises over 20% of the energy needs of Germany. The Germans are pushing for over 30% by 2025. It sure seems to work well enough for them. The Danes get over 20% of their energy from wind also. Do you think that Germans and Danes are smarter than Americans? Alas, on this issue it certainly seems the case, largely because of ignorant, arrogant idiots like you.

Yeah, I need oil. Just like millions of other Americans do because that's what our cars run on and that's what heats our homes (guess you didn't know that).

And there are other ways to do that. Guess you didn't know that. So tell me, do you like keeping places like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela in business?

I'm not shilling for "big oil".

You just did moron.

Finally, the green jobs are going to be elusive because the rare earth minerals used to make solar panels especially are found in abundance in China.

You are incorrect about that as well. We have quite a bit actually. China has developed mining of them more than we did. It was cheaper for American companies to use Chinese workers, none of those pesky human or worker's rights issues, than to get it from our own soil.

So we're going to be going to foriegners for our "green" unless we find the right kind of "green".

Did you think that up all by yourself? How clever...

We need more research for the future and we need more oil right now

We have the technology right now. The Germans are using it well, so are the Danes and the Israelis and the Chinese and the Navy and for that matter the Army and Marines. It does work. You could look into those things, but that would require actually thinking and doing basic research and not being a loud and ignorant troll.

372 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:42:28pm

re: #370 WindUpBird

Just go to bed, WindupBird. Jon Stewart doesn't come on for another 4 hours. He'll tell you how and what to think.

373 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:44:38pm

re: #368 Beltboy

I never said I "denied" evolution.
At least READ the post before commenting.

Of course you did. "Evolution is just a theory" is an evolution denial statement.

374 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:46:09pm

re: #365 Beltboy

You're also misusing 'ad hominem'.

The least of your problems, but it's there.

375 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:46:44pm

re: #373 Sergey Romanov

It's called the Theory of Evolution.

Hey! I didn't know Darwin was an evolution denier!!! LOL!!

376 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:48:02pm

re: #375 Beltboy

Yeah, we get it, you're an ignorant twit and proud of it.
We get it.

377 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:48:29pm

re: #375 Beltboy

It's called the Theory of Evolution.

Hey! I didn't know Darwin was an evolution denier!!! LOL!!

LOL, what a moron. Nobody denies that there is a theory of evolution. That's not what you said. You said, and I quote:

Evolution is still a theory. Not a fact.

You're doubly moronic because you don't even acknowledge that you're an evolution denier after clearly stating so.

378 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:48:53pm

re: #375 Beltboy

It's called the Theory of Evolution.

Hey! I didn't know Darwin was an evolution denier!!! LOL!!

Sad that I need to repost this from this very thread no less, but...

Confusing the scientific use of the word theory with the mundane use is a standard and stupid technique of science deniers everywhere. It is a word game based in ignorance. What most people think of as a theory (as in anything that someone might believe to be true) is usually, in science, at best, a weak hypothesis.

In lay person terms, a scientific theory is something that has been proven to be fact beyond any standard set in any court of law. Is the theory of heliocentrism (the sun at the center of the solar system) a fact? Yes. It is a fact as much as anything can be a fact outside of pure mathematics. Is evolution a fact? Yes, it is a fact as far as anything can be proven outside of mathematics.

It becomes endlessly frustrating to have to re-write this over and over again. A mature theory like evolution has literally billions of observations confirming the correctness of the theory. We see it happening in real time with anti-biotic resistant bacteria. We see it happening in the fossil record. We see it encoded in our very own DNA when we find all sorts of commonalities with other organisms and an entire history of gene expressions turned on and off. I could write for a dozen pages about all the ways this has been shown to be true and still only scratch the tip of the iceberg.

So yes, it is a fact. I repeat a fact. A glaring obvious fact that has been shown to be true countless times.

379 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:48:57pm

re: #372 Beltboy

Just go to bed, WindupBird. Jon Stewart doesn't come on for another 4 hours. He'll tell you how and what to think.

Could you at least troll with a bit of panache and creativity?

You're, like, the eighth person to do the "throw ad hominems, then accuse others of using ad hominems and declare victory" manuever.

Are you using a walkthrough or something?

380 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:50:05pm

re: #379 The Ghost of a Flea

Could you at least troll with a bit of panache and creativity?

You're, like, the eighth person to do the "throw ad hominems, then accuse others of using ad hominems and declare victory" manuever.

Are you using a walkthrough or something?

I'm personally smelling dirty socks... but I could be wrong. It is agreeable to roast the troll until he becomes boring.

381 Beltboy  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:52:27pm

re: #378 LudwigVanQuixote

But you didn't rewrite it. You just cut and pasted it. Or did it aggravate your carpal tunnel?
It's still called "Theory of Evolution". It isn't called "Fact of Evolution".
I'm well aware of all the evidence and I am not denying it. I'm calling it what the scientific community calls it.

382 Kragar  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:52:33pm

Figures that fucknutz would wait till a new thread opens before he pops again

383 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:52:53pm

re: #380 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm personally smelling dirty socks... but I could be wrong. It is agreeable to roast the troll until he becomes boring.

Already boring. Zero points for creativity.

384 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:53:48pm

re: #381 Beltboy

But you didn't rewrite it. You just cut and pasted it. Or did it aggravate your carpal tunnel?
It's still called "Theory of Evolution". It isn't called "Fact of Evolution".
I'm well aware of all the evidence and I am not denying it. I'm calling it what the scientific community calls it.

Um, no. Evolution is a fact. Theory of evolution is a theory that explains this fact. Theory of gravitation is also only a theory, it's not a fact. Gravitation, however, is a fact.

385 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:54:19pm

re: #383 The Ghost of a Flea

Already boring. Zero points for creativity.

Actually this blunt naivete is kinda entertaining.

386 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 3:55:09pm

re: #385 Sergey Romanov

Actually this blunt naivete is kinda entertaining.

When Lizards Get Bored, Part IV

387 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:00:00pm

re: #385 Sergey Romanov

Actually this blunt naivete is kinda entertaining.

Blunt naivete takes up most of my zipcode.

388 garhighway  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:05:30pm

re: #381 Beltboy

I'm well aware of all the evidence and I am not denying it.

If you don't doubt evolution exists as originally explained by Darwin, why bring it up? What's the point?

So let's be clear:

1> Do you believe that evolution explains how life on this planet developed? And while we're at it...
2> Do you agree with the scientific consensus around AGW that humans, by adding vast amounts of CO2 and other greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, have begun a process of warming the planet?

389 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:16:10pm

So where's Beltboy?

390 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:18:53pm

re: #389 Sergey Romanov

So where's Beltboy?

Back under the bridge.

391 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:19:49pm

re: #390 thedopefishlives

Back under the bridge.

Then we won't be needing these billy-goats or this wooden spoon....

392 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:21:41pm

re: #391 The Ghost of a Flea

Then we won't be needing these billy-goats or this wooden spoon...

Reminded me of "Troll Hunter", heh.

393 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:24:52pm

re: #381 Beltboy

What? Is that the best you can do? Unfortunately it needs to be said and re-said very often because so many are so ignorant. Did you even read what was there enough for it to permeate? That clearly explained how you are misusing words that you don't understand. And what of the other post that addressed each of your ignorant talking points? They show you completely false. I can get links if you wish, if you would read them, but it seems you can't even read what is written.

You are almost making me miss the stalkers...

Well not really... They were actually about as bright as you are (which is not very bright at all). It was the same nonsense with them. Always so arrogant... always so convinced they know what they are talking about when even the slightest prodding shows complete and utter ignorance. And you are proud to be so ignorant too. That is the kicker. Amongst the educated you barely rate the ability of a rude sixth grader, yet you feel so important and so entitled to your worthless and unbaked drivel.

394 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:26:59pm

re: #384 Sergey Romanov

Um, no. Evolution is a fact. Theory of evolution is a theory that explains this fact. Theory of gravitation is also only a theory, it's not a fact. Gravitation, however, is a fact.

That is an interesting distinction.

It is well said and I can not argue with it. Indeed the fact that creatures are evolving into one another is readily observed, which is something separate from the explanation of the observation.

This can turn into an engaging ontological discussion about the reality of the explanation itself.

395 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:27:10pm

re: #380 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm personally smelling dirty socks... but I could be wrong. It is agreeable to roast the troll until he becomes boring.

I'm guessing it's either Alaska Kim or (less likely) Girl With a Pearl Earring. The simultaneously whiny and aggressive style is highly familiar.

396 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:29:28pm

re: #395 publicityStunted

I'm guessing it's either Alaska Kim or (less likely) Girl With a Pearl Earring. The simultaneously whiny and aggressive style is highly familiar.

Could be... but this honestly has the feel of some of the older school losers.

397 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:35:56pm

re: #395 publicityStunted

I'm guessing it's either Alaska Kim or (less likely) Girl With a Pearl Earring. The simultaneously whiny and aggressive style is highly familiar.

Also, is not the essence of Fox News TP types to be hideously whiny and aggressive across the board?

398 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:44:03pm

re: #397 LudwigVanQuixote

Also, is not the essence of Fox News TP types to be hideously whiny and aggressive across the board?

True. They all sound so much alike that after a while, it's next to impossible to tell them apart. Similar to what you'd get if a lobotomized Borg collective assimilated a parrot whose cage is in Limbaugh's recording studio.

399 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:51:52pm

Creationists say the darndest things. I've missed having these irrepressible scamps around.

This brings back memories of the days when people like Beltboy were all over LGF. Oh, the arguments we had back then.

(I expect another dead thread hero or two to make an appearance before comments close down.)

400 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 4:52:34pm

re: #399 Charles

Creationists say the darndest things. I've missed having these irrepressible scamps around.

This brings back memories of the days when people like Beltboy were all over LGF. Oh, the arguments we had back then.

(I expect another dead thread hero or two to make an appearance before comments close down.)

Oh for sure. We already have the last word on dead thread... I win thing happening...

401 spiderx  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 6:20:53pm

why are we surprised that the media is not asking GOP candidates science questions? The media narrative is driven by the 24-hr networks. FOX is conservative, CNN is conservative, and GOP candidates wouldn't think about going on MSNBC.

402 boxhead  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 6:22:58pm

The number one response I give to my GOP friends on who to vote for in the next Presidential elections is that I will never vote for a candidate that is anti science. And Almost every time they cannot respond. Deep down they know as well as I do the anti science GOP is bad for USA.

403 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 6:30:41pm

re: #395 publicityStunted

I'm guessing it's either Alaska Kim or (less likely) Girl With a Pearl Earring. The simultaneously whiny and aggressive style is highly familiar.

I bow to your encyclopedic knowledge of LGF trolls!

404 spiderx  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 6:54:09pm

re: #402 boxhead

The number one response I give to my GOP friends on who to vote for in the next Presidential elections is that I will never vote for a candidate that is anti science. And Almost every time they cannot respond. Deep down they know as well as I do the anti science GOP is bad for USA.

the only people i know who still vote GOP are anti-science themselves. I haven't talked to a moderate republican in ages. They are all democrats now.

405 boxhead  Wed, Oct 19, 2011 7:05:05pm

re: #404 spiderx

the only people i know who still vote GOP are anti-science themselves. I haven't talked to a moderate republican in ages. They are all democrats now.

Los Angeles still has some. I suspect the West Coast in general, since the Bible Belt influences are not so strong.

406 chunkymonkey  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 10:22:18am

re: #399 Charles

Creationists say the darndest things. I've missed having these irrepressible scamps around.

Yeah, that they do.

(I expect another dead thread hero or two to make an appearance before comments close down.)

Here! I'm late to the party, just had to comment on the following:

In last night’s debate, not a single question was asked about the most dangerous threat to human life, climate change.

Seriously? THE most dangerous threat to human life? Now AGW may be real etc, but the claims about the danger, I ain't sold on them yet. I'd call it the most nebulous threat to human life, since nobody really knows what is the level of threat of AGW.

407 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 10:55:03am

re: #406 chunkymonkey

Seriously? THE most dangerous threat to human life? Now AGW may be real etc, but the claims about the danger, I ain't sold on them yet. I'd call it the most nebulous threat to human life, since nobody really knows what is the level of threat of AGW.

Then you simply have not been paying attention.

The Hundred Billion Dollar Cost of AGW This Year (and counting)
Mother Nature doesn't care if you don't believe.

408 chunkymonkey  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:41:01am

re: #407 LudwigVanQuixote

Your analysis is not compelling, sorry. The tornado paper to which you link shows that tornado frequency is currently decreasing, which is the opposite of what is supposedly predicted. Also, if you look at the last chart, it shows at worst no change in "Days with a tornado fatality per year" and at best a decline. Shouldn't this be the opposite if the predictions are correct.

As for Hurricanes, the data I've seen doesn't show an increase in intensity or frequency that correlates with global temperature increase.

The rest of the info you provide is either anectodal and therefore not useful, or howlers like the following:

“The nation is increasingly vulnerable to extreme weather,” said Dr.
Lubchenco, who sought emphatically to link that vulnerability to the importance of financing for NOAA.

So Dr. Lubchenco's bread is buttered by the supposedly increasing vulnerability to extreme weather. How convenient.

409 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:01:14pm

^ That's one stubborn little stalker-blog troll. And it's so incredibly dumb it doesn't realize the NOAA funding Dr. Lubchenco is asking for is to pay for weather satellites to, you know, warn people about impending disasters so fatalities can be lowered:

Without money to build a new satellite, the federal government will no longer be able to forecast severe weather events far enough in advance for communities to take life-saving action five years from now. That was the message that Jane Lubchenco, the administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, delivered on Wednesday at a town-hall-style meeting in Denver.

Why does the stupid little right-wing troll want people to die from natural disasters because they couldn't be warned about them in time?

410 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:01:32pm

...

411 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:26:10pm

re: #399 Charles

(I expect another dead thread hero or two to make an appearance before comments close down.)

Boy, did I call that or what?

412 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 3:14:12pm

re: #408 chunkymonkey

Your analysis is not compelling, sorry.

Really? Hard numbers into the billions of dollars of damages don't compel? Did you even read it?

The tornado paper to which you link shows that tornado frequency is currently decreasing, which is the opposite of what is supposedly predicted.

No, it does not at all. I suppose "did you even read it" is not the appropriate question. Are you able to read a scientific paper?

From the paper itself:

In the 1970s, there was an average of 858 tornadoes per year. In the 1990s, this increased by almost 30% to an average of a little over 1200 tornadoes per year.

Also, if you look at the last chart, it shows at worst no change in "Days with a tornado fatality per year" and at best a decline. Shouldn't this be the opposite if the predictions are correct.

No not so much... Can you read?

As for Hurricanes, the data I've seen doesn't show an increase in intensity or frequency that correlates with global temperature increase.

Really, and what data is that? There are dozens of papers to support that. care to source? Be careful with using big scientific words like data and pretending you look at it like that. You are no scientist and your inability to use basic math skills or read is showing. Best not to pretend to be what you are not.

The rest of the info you provide is either anectodal and therefore not useful, or howlers like the following:

Anecdotal... I have multiple stories about massive climate related damage that was predicted by the models. Do you even know what the word anecdotal means?

So Dr. Lubchenco's bread is buttered by the supposedly increasing vulnerability to extreme weather. How convenient.

Publicity stunted hit that one well. I am curious, are you retarded?

413 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 3:23:49pm

re: #409 publicityStunted

^ That's one stubborn little stalker-blog troll. And it's so incredibly dumb it doesn't realize the NOAA funding Dr. Lubchenco is asking for is to pay for weather satellites to, you know, warn people about impending disasters so fatalities can be lowered:

Well said.

Why does the stupid little right-wing troll want people to die from natural disasters because they couldn't be warned about them in time?

Because stupid little right wing trolls are nasty, brainwashed, closed mined followers who are so arrogant they think they understand even basic science enough to rudely lecture, when in reality, they show less comprehension of basic things than a pouty sixth grader.


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