NPR Fires Host of Opera Show for Participating in Occupy DC

Not brave
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Lisa SimeoneToday we see a very disappointing move from NPR, who have fired Lisa Simeone from her job as host of NPR’s Soundprint non-political documentary show after the right wing propaganda journal Daily Caller accused her of “ethics violations” because of her involvement in Occupy DC.

This article set off a predictable chorus of squawking from the parrots of the right wing blogosphere, calling for Simeone to be fired.

Simeone also freelances as host of “World of Opera,” and may be fired from that job too — because NPR’s executives are so gun shy about being accused of political bias that they’re overreacting in the most absurd ways, and letting the right wing hate machine dictate their actions. A little courage is called for, and a little support for their own employees when they’re dishonestly targeted by the deranged wingnut blogosphere.

Simeone comments on this unfortunate decision:

“I find it puzzling that NPR objects to my exercising my rights as an American citizen — the right to free speech, the right to peaceable assembly — on my own time in my own life,” Simeone wrote in an email response to questions from the Sun Wednesday night. 

“I’m not an NPR employee,” she continued. ” I’m a freelancer.  NPR doesn’t pay me.  I’m also not a news reporter.  I don’t cover politics.  I’ve never brought a whiff of my political activities into the work I’ve done for NPR World of Opera.  What is NPR afraid I’ll do — insert a seditious comment into a synopsis of Madame Butterfly?”

Simeone went on to say, “This sudden concern with my political activities is also surprising in light of the fact that Mara Liaason reports on politics for NPR yet appears as a commentator on FoxTV, Scott Simon hosts an NPR news show yet writes political op-eds for national newspapers, Cokie Roberts reports on politics for NPR yet accepts large speaking fees from businesses.  Does NPR also send out “Communications Alerts” about their activities?”

UPDATE at 10/20/11 12:23:14 pm

To be accurate, Ms Simeone was not fired by NPR — she was fired by Soundprint Media Center, Inc., who produce the documentary show she hosted. But it’s clear that NPR played a role in this:

Lisa Simeone said she was fired the previous evening from “Soundprint,” a music documentary show that isn’t produced by NPR but is aired by its affiliates across the country. She said the head of Soundprint Media Center Inc., which produces the show, read NPR’s code of ethics to her before she was fired.

NPR also questioned Simeone’s involvement in the “Occupy D.C.” protest and said its ethics code applies to the shows it carries. But NPR said Simeone doesn’t work for the radio network, and it hadn’t pressured Soundprint to fire her.

(h/t: Killgore Trout.)

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311 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:07:49am

ethics violations? She does a frigging Opera show.

2 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:09:46am

The wingnuts don't need to hold any office to cow their opponents.

And the mere threat of a filibuster stops the Democrats in their tracks.

I am very disappointed (read "pissed off") at the whole boiling of them.

3 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:10:16am

NPR's jumping at shadows, which should really be asinine, but is understandable when there's a very active campaign to see their plug pulled. Under a more sane government, such would be unnecessary, but sanity left Congress ages ago and is no hurry to return to those godforsaken halls.

4 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:10:59am

This is an example of going off the deep end.

5 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:11:52am

The worst part about this is that, as she says, she didn't even work for NPR.

I have, really, not been very impressed by personnel decisions coming from NPR as of late (This includes how they handled Juan Williams). Ever since then, especially, they've been rather sensitive to anything the right wing has tossed out there against someone involved with them. Granted, I understand they're worried about federal funding for public radio and want to avoid giving any excuses, but I think that concern is misplaced in so much that I'm pretty sure a GOP controlled Congress and White House would find a reason to cut off funding regardless.

6 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:14:27am

Fun read, not really worth a page: Matt Taibbi: "Why Rush Limbaugh Is Freaking Out About Occupy Wall Street"

7 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:15:34am

This is fucking stupid.

Simeone went on to say, “This sudden concern with my political activities is also surprising in light of the fact that Mara Liaason reports on politics for NPR yet appears as a commentator on FoxTV, Scott Simon hosts an NPR news show yet writes political op-eds for national newspapers, Cokie Roberts reports on politics for NPR yet accepts large speaking fees from businesses. Does NPR also send out “Communications Alerts” about their activities?”

How on earth is her participation in OWS grounds for firing, when she's not a political commentator, but those people remain employed by them?

I really laugh when people call NPR left-wing. Not only for shit like this, but they're barely any better than most of the media because they generally present 'both sides', with only the mildest of criticism or investigative journalism.

8 Charleston Chew  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:16:58am

re: #5 Simply Sarah

The worst part about this is that, as she says, she didn't even work for NPR.

I have, really, not been very impressed by personnel decisions coming from NPR as of late (This includes how they handled Juan Williams). Ever since then, especially, they've been rather sensitive to anything the right wing has tossed out there against someone involved with them. Granted, I understand they're worried about federal funding for public radio and want to avoid giving any excuses, but I think that concern is misplaced in so much that I'm pretty sure a GOP controlled Congress and White House would find a reason to cut off funding regardless.

You're right. It's a mistake to try not to upset people who are already out to get you.

9 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:18:33am

NPR sucks.

10 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:19:11am

re: #7 Obdicut

This is fucking stupid.

How on earth is her participation in OWS grounds for firing, when she's not a political commentator, but those people remain employed by them?

I really laugh when people call NPR left-wing. Not only for shit like this, but they're barely any better than most of the media because they generally present 'both sides', with only the mildest of criticism or investigative journalism.

My understanding is that it wasn't even OWS, but some other organization.

And yes, NPR programming is often largely neutered when it comes to actually taking people to task for their positions. Or, at least, the stuff produced by NPR itself is. Some of the affiliate programming that's carried nationally does a better job (Thinking locally, something like On Point can be OK, although sometimes that's only due to callers).

11 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:19:40am

So the mentality at work is:

United State Supreme Court Justice partying with the Koch brothers - no problem

NPR music host cavorting with Occupy DC protestors - problem

My head hurts.

12 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:21:02am

re: #11 bratwurst

So the mentality at work is:

United State Supreme Court Justice partying with the Koch brothers - no problem

NPR music host cavorting with Occupy DC protestors - problem

My head hurts.

She may have upset the show's target audience, since the 99% wouldn't listen to an opera show if someone paid them to./

13 Charleston Chew  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:21:12am

re: #10 Simply Sarah

My understanding is that it wasn't even OWS, but some other organization.

And yes, NPR programming is often largely neutered when it comes to actually taking people to task for their positions. Or, at least, the stuff produced by NPR itself is. Some of the affiliate programming that's carried nationally does a better job (Thinking locally, something like On Point can be OK, although sometimes that's only due to callers).

I'll never know if On Point's any good. Puts me right to sleep.

14 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:22:06am

re: #9 wrenchwench

NPR sucks.

Well, I'm not sure I'm ready to quite go that far. :P

NPR certainly has a lot of problems, but I still find they do a better job than most other options out there. So maybe NPR does, in fact, suck, but it sucks less than the alternatives.

15 Mattand  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:22:44am

What's galling about this is there is an entire fucking cable news network dedicated to promoting the Tea Baggers and the Republican party. Yet somehow one woman who freelances at a network with a fraction of Fox's audience is destroying broadcasting ethics by voicing an opinion.

I wonder if NPR management has been taking spinelessness lessons fro the Democrats. So frustrating.

16 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:24:08am

re: #13 Charleston Chew

I'll never know if On Point's any good. Puts me right to sleep.

It...really depends on the topic and the guests. Sometimes it can be really engaging, but yeah, when it's a topic that has no interest to you and the guests aren't very exciting, it can become a bit painful. I suppose that's just how that kind of format works.

17 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:24:24am

re: #11 bratwurst

So the mentality at work is:

United State Supreme Court Justice partying with the Koch brothers - no problem

NPR music host cavorting with Occupy DC protestors - problem

My head hurts.

The Koch bros. are rich.

Therefore God is blessing them.

The OWS protestors are communists, and since all communists are atheists they are by definition reprobate.

Why would you object to supporting those blessed of God and condemning those who are reprobate. Are you not a true American?

18 jaunte  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:25:19am

NPR's ethics policy relating to freelancers:

Because contributors in this category are not NPR employees, the remedy for dealing with a conflict of interest or other violation of the principles of this code is rejection of the offered material, or of any future programming proposals similarly affected by the conflict or other violation of the ethical principles. NPR may also terminate any ongoing contract with the freelancer. As with NPR employees who produce content, outside contributors must disclose potential conflicts of interest or other issues under this Code when they accept an assignment or make a story pitch, and NPR editors and producers must make sufficient inquiries of those persons to satisfy themselves that the outside contributors have complied with this code.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

'Abandon political thought, all who enter here..."

19 KingKenrod  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:26:03am

re: #7 Obdicut

This is fucking stupid.

How on earth is her participation in OWS grounds for firing, when she's not a political commentator, but those people remain employed by them?

I don't think any of the hosts mentioned are in PR work for a political organization - maybe they are, I don't know. They are paid to give their opinions and analysis, which is different than PR.

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:26:14am

re: #1 HappyWarrior

ethics violations? She does a frigging Opera show.

Perhaps all the Occupistas have burst into song.

21 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:26:35am

re: #17 freetoken

The Koch bros. are rich.

Therefore God is blessing them.

The OWS protestors are communists, and since all communists are atheists they are by definition reprobate.

Why would you object to supporting those blessed of God and condemning those who are reprobate. Are you not a true American?

At least there is a good logical explanation for this apparent paradox, thanks!

22 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:26:59am

re: #15 mattand

What's galling about this is there is an entire fucking cable news network dedicated to promoting the Tea Baggers and the Republican party. Yet somehow one woman who freelances at a network with a fraction of Fox's audience is destroying broadcasting ethics by voicing an opinion.

I wonder if NPR management has been takings spinelessness lessons fro the Democrats. So frustrating.

That's just it, Fox News doesn't directly take government dollars, so it's free to whore itself out to whoever it likes. But NPR does, which means they have to walk a fine line even in the best of times. And the Right's big focus right now is on silencing all forms of media they don't directly control, so pulling the plug on NPR is a major priority. And their battleplan for accomplishing that is to portray it as some "Leftist propoganda network" so that cutting its funding looking "even-handed."

23 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:27:12am

re: #1 HappyWarrior

ethics violations? She does a frigging Opera show.

If its on National-Socialist Progressive Radio then it must be a politicized communist opera show.

24 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:27:14am

re: #18 jaunte
I like the Dante reference. 'Abandon political thought, all who enter here..."

25 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:27:31am

re: #18 jaunte

I could totally understand this if she was a political reporter-- though that raises the question of why they haven't fired those other commentators, or why there was a shred of controversy over Juan Williams being fired-- but how is it a conflict of interest for her on reporting on opera?

I don't give a shit what the Car Guys do politically. They're car guys. I listen to them about car stuff.

Geez.

26 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:27:38am

I'll worry when Click and Clack do a show on tuning a Rolls.

27 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:28:58am

re: #25 Obdicut
I love Car Talk. It is very funny as well as informational.

28 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:28:58am

I expect to see Fox news firing its staff over involvement in the Tea Party in 5... 4...

Wait a sec.

29 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:29:17am

Because NPR gets a tiny sliver of support from tax money the execs at NPR have been so neutered that they can't allow a free-lancer to do what they want to on their own time.

The problem NPR faces (in not being able to let go of the public ties) is that the radio stations that carry their programs are publicly owned, usually by local colleges or university trusts. Now, the local stations don't carry just NPR content (since they often generate their own programming), yet NPR is critically attached to that middle initial.

30 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:29:25am

re: #18 jaunte

NPR's ethics policy relating to freelancers:

[Link: www.npr.org...]

'Abandon political thought, all who enter here..."

Perhaps they need to rework their ethics guidelines, then. I mean, I'm not seeing that was she warned about this activity previously and continued to do so against that wishes of NPR. Yes, I know people are supposed to know all these kinds of rules and whatever, but generally a warning is a first step for cases of non-egregious infractions.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:29:25am

As Caitlynn finishes her aria Oh, come desidero per la giustizia economica, Josh enters, with the renegade protesters, and they sit down to a meal of spaghetti and donated bagels. They sing 'The Drinking Song', Siamo i 99 per cento.

32 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:29:42am

This is what fear does, thanks Juan Williams!
This is another example as to why the media is afraid to ask GOP candidates questions with substance.
Fair and balanced my butt.

33 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:30:25am

Back off people. The Barber of Seville helped trigger the revolutions of 1848.

34 Mattand  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:31:23am

re: #22 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Forgot that the "NP" stands "National Public". Good point.

35 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:31:56am

I'd be talking to a lawyer about a wrongful termination lawsuit.

36 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:32:06am

re: #19 KingKenrod

I don't think any of the hosts mentioned are in PR work for a political organization - maybe they are, I don't know. They are paid to give their opinions and analysis, which is different than PR.

Calling this "doing PR work" is a little bit weird. Did the people involved in the Civil Rights March "Do PR work" for it? She's participating in the protest.

It seems like a distinction without a difference to let Cokie Roberts get paid to speak at corporations, but not to let this woman speak her own mind at a group she voluntarily joined.

And again: Opera. She does opera. Who cares what she does politically? I don't care if the expert on fisheries they bring onto the radio is a goddamn royalist.

37 Charleston Chew  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:32:45am

re: #22 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That's just it, Fox News doesn't directly take government dollars, so it's free to whore itself out to whoever it likes. But NPR does, which means they have to walk a fine line even in the best of times. And the Right's big focus right now is on silencing all forms of media they don't directly control, so pulling the plug on NPR is a major priority. And their battleplan for accomplishing that is to portray it as some "Leftist propoganda network" so that cutting its funding looking "even-handed."

I don't think the 2% of funding they get indirectly from the government is worth it if it comes to this.

38 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:33:32am

New video - Libyan rebels posing around Gaddafi's corpse. Looks like he was shot in the forehead. Warning: graphic.

39 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:33:42am

More on WDAV & World of Opera
[Link: blogs.wdav.org...]

We are seeing a lot of misleading media reports about WDAV’s relationship to World of Opera host Lisa Simeone. To clarify and correct:

As host of World of Opera, Lisa Simeone is an independent contractor of WDAV Classical Public Radio. Ms. Simeone’s activities outside of this job are not in violation of any of WDAV’s employee codes and have had no effect on her job performance at WDAV. Ms. Simeone remains the host of World of Opera.

We continue to work with NPR to find a solution to the issues surrounding World of Opera, and we’ll publish any updates here!

40 jaunte  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:34:04am

re: #30 Simply Sarah

In practical terms it looks like they're saying that if they don't like what a freelancer supports in their public life (or if someone complains about it), they will choose not to hire them for that reason.

41 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:34:15am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

Perhaps all the Occupistas have burst into song.

42 Simply Sarah  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:34:30am

re: #37 Charleston Chew

I don't think the 2% of funding they get indirectly from the government is worth it if it comes to this.

Well, NPR doesn't get a lot directly from the government, but a lot of the local affiliate stations do (Which they, in turn, use in part to pay NPR).

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:35:16am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

As Caitlynn finishes her aria Oh, come desidero per la giustizia economica, Josh enters, with the renegade protesters, and they sit down to a meal of spaghetti and donated bagels. They sing 'The Drinking Song', Siamo i 99 per cento.

I am now imagining an opera soprano with magenta hair and a green dog hat, belting her lungs out in a stage set made to look like a protest encampment.

I caught a glimpse of Occupy Oakland, yesterday, while I was waiting for the bus, BTW.

44 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:35:22am

re: #37 Charleston Chew

I don't think the 2% of funding they get indirectly from the government is worth it if it comes to this.

Oh, I agree. But even if NPR were to forego all and any tax money it gets from any line in Congress' budget, the local radio stations are still publicly supported and part of public institutions.

Wait until the next step, when the right wing machine starts going after the public radio stations themselves.

45 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:35:46am

What she does on her own time is her own business, especially as a freelancer.

A while back NJ Transit tried to fire one of its conductors because he was at a Ground Zero mosque protest and burned a koran. NJ Transit had to take him back because it's a free speech issue. He wasn't on duty, wasn't in uniform, and wasn't advocating on NJ Transit property.

NPR is wrong here to fire her on these grounds, and the rationale is shaky at best.

BTW - new photos from Zuccotti Park today.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:36:02am

re: #33 Decatur Deb

Back off people. The Barber of Seville helped trigger the revolutions of 1848.

I do recall the scene in Amadeus, where Mozart is pitching "The Marriage of Figaro", and the Emperor is worried, because the novel it's based on is a bit politically dicy.

47 valuepack  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:36:06am

Another log thrown on the stupidity bonfire that is modern US politics.

48 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:36:08am

re: #42 Simply Sarah

Well, NPR doesn't get a lot directly from the government, but a lot of the local affiliate stations do (Which they, in turn, use in part to pay NPR).

Exactly. The 2% isn't the end of it, just the most prominent step right now. The effort is to remove NPR's "protected" status by killing the funding. Once the funding goes, then the next front in the war will be either shutting down the affiliate stations or at least barring them from broadcasting NPR.

49 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:36:57am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

I do recall the scene in Amadeus, where Mozart is pitching "The Marriage of Figaro", and the Emperor is worried, because the novel it's based on is a bit politically dicy.

Yup.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

50 bluecheese  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:36:59am
51 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:37:30am

re: #48 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Since so many of the local stations are college and university owned, wait until the blood thirsty Tea Partiers start going after the content of those stations.

52 jaunte  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:37:45am

It's pretty funny that Breitbart's sites are all over this 'ethics violation' story.

53 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:37:59am

re: #49 Decatur Deb

Yup.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Lots of Verdi stuff was considered politically controversial.

54 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:39:25am

re: #53 The Ghost of a Flea

Maybe that's what Zucotti park needs. They should stage an opera.

56 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:40:39am

re: #53 The Ghost of a Flea

Lots of Verdi stuff was considered politically controversial.

Nessun Dorma almost became the Italian national anthem. All of Nabbucco was subversive of the Austrians.

57 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:40:47am

re: #54 Obdicut

They've already got the percussionists.

First option would be Les Mis.

58 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:41:12am

re: #52 jaunte

It's pretty funny that Breitbart's sites are all over this 'ethics violation' story.

I do not think it means what they think it means.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:41:19am

re: #41 The Ghost of a Flea

[Video]

This was what came to mind...

That, or Farley's "Wriggletto (The Whole Thing Just Makes Me Squirm)"--best political opera never actually written.

60 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:41:27am

re: #52 jaunte

It's pretty funny that Breitbart's sites are all over this 'ethics violation' story.

I don't know what share of tax money has gone to this women's compensation from NPR, but I bet it can be counted in pennies, in low numbers.

And yet this amount is trivialized, by many, many orders of magnitude by the amount of money that gets funded to religious organizations. Does Bratfart ever run stories about the ethics of that?

61 Charleston Chew  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:42:19am

re: #42 Simply Sarah

Well, NPR doesn't get a lot directly from the government, but a lot of the local affiliate stations do (Which they, in turn, use in part to pay NPR).

Member stations get about 16% funding from fed, state, local gov and Corporation for Public Broadcasting combined. And many citizens of those gov funding sources are either pro or neutral to OWS. If this is the norm now, NPR is paying too high a price for that funding.

62 bluecheese  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:43:33am

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

popcorn?

63 Kronocide  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:43:54am

WTF NPR, SRLSY?

Chalk one up for the propagandists.

64 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:45:18am

re: #56 Decatur Deb

Nessun Dorma almost became the Italian national anthem.

[Video]

Thank you for making me take a moment from sending e-mails about UC essay to listen to that.

65 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:45:28am

re: #62 bluecheese

popcorn?

66 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:45:49am

matt taibbi on little sweating limbaughs

The reality, of course, is that people like Rush, Romney and Obama are all becoming cognizant of the deep frustrations that exist across the political spectrum and are growing desperate to prevent the powder keg from blowing completely – hence the intense effort to describe OWS as a top-down manipulation.

Of course the notion that this is all a media fabrication is ludicrous. Dylan Ratigan didn’t invent four million people in foreclosure, he didn’t invent ten trillion dollars in bailouts, and he didn’t invent Wall Street’s $160 billion bonus pool the year after the crash of its own creation.

[Link: www.rollingstone.com...]

67 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:45:55am

re: #51 freetoken

Since so many of the local stations are college and university owned, wait until the blood thirsty Tea Partiers start going after the content of those stations.

Not to mention that NPR will have to make up for the lost 2% of funding. The first choice could be making budgetary cuts, letting people go, but I'm not sure that will cover the entire 2% without compromising NPR's programming. If they can't make those cuts, then the next step is looking elsewhere, which means either ads from companies that the Right will launch a boycott effort against or men of wealth making healthy "donations" that will either be leveraged to have say over NPR's operations/programming.

68 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:45:55am

The East is Red (written by a committee) was the soundtrack for the Cultural Revolution. Just can't trust these subversive aficionados.

69 Charleston Chew  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:46:53am

re: #52 jaunte

It's pretty funny that Breitbart's sites are all over this 'ethics violation' story.

The very concept of ethics is as mysterious to them as the black monolith is to the apes in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Image: ape-touches-monolith1.jpg

70 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:47:53am
“I find it puzzling that NPR objects to my exercising my rights as an American citizen — the right to free speech, the right to peaceable assembly — on my own time in my own life,”

Yeah! I find that puzzling as well.

71 SpaceJesus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:48:09am

note to self

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

72 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:50:25am

i've been listening to NPR in the alternate reality where it's a left wing media outlet

in the alternative universe, NPR is broadcasting compelling and exciting coverage, and is on the ground following events as they take place

73 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:52:40am

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Not to mention that NPR will have to make up for the lost 2% of funding. The first choice could be making budgetary cuts, letting people go, but I'm not sure that will cover the entire 2% without compromising NPR's programming. If they can't make those cuts, then the next step is looking elsewhere, which means either ads from companies that the Right will launch a boycott effort against or men of wealth making healthy "donations" that will either be leveraged to have say over NPR's operations/programming.

Firing opera hosts is a good first step to cutting their budget!!! Good Job NPR!!
//

74 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:53:09am

re: #72 engineer dog

i've been listening to NPR in the alternate reality where it's a left wing media outlet

in the alternative universe, NPR is broadcasting compelling and exciting coverage, and is on the ground following events as they take place

You're trying to tell me a 2 hour block covering 1920's yodeling isn't riveting?

75 Ming  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:53:41am

I'm afraid that, as crazy as the right wing is, sometimes it seems that the left wing is just plain dazed and confused.

I'm not sure why NPR thinks that it's a "revolutionary act" for someone to be at an Occupy Wall Street protest, on her own time (as she says).

This reminds me of early 2010, when it took Nancy Pelosi's Democratic Congress over a month to simply pass Obama's health care bill, which had already been passed by the Senate. Why the holdup? Because Republican Scott Brown had just been elected to the Senate (in a special election), so now the Democrats controlled the Senate by "only" 59-41. But so what? The bill HAD ALREADY PASSED the Senate! But for no reason that I can figure out, this put health care reform in limbo for another entire month.

Obviously, these days, the right wing is more "in your face" with their craziness. But the left wing has its own problems!

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:54:06am

re: #70 ggt

Yeah! I find that puzzling as well.

They may be able to get away with it, simply because she's a freelancer, but it would be worth sending a stiffly worded lawyer's letter.

77 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:54:37am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

As Caitlynn finishes her aria Oh, come desidero per la giustizia economica, Josh enters, with the renegade protesters, and they sit down to a meal of spaghetti and donated bagels. They sing 'The Drinking Song', Siamo i 99 per cento.

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

That stuff's really quite brilliant.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:54:44am

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're trying to tell me a 2 hour block covering 1920's yodeling isn't riveting?


Yodel-lo-lay-hee
--what?

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:55:34am

re: #75 Ming

I'm not sure why NPR thinks that it's a "revolutionary act" for someone to be at an Occupy Wall Street protest, on her own time (as she says).

I'm also not clear why 'revolutionary acts' performed off the clock should be an issue.

80 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:56:24am
81 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:56:32am

One quick OT thought on the Alabama/Arizona immigration laws. I had a great trip to El Paso with my class. One of the people we got to hear from is a federal judge from that area. He is a Bush appointee and seemed fairly conservative in his mindset. When asked about the Alabama and Arizona laws he quickly replied that "regardless of how you feel about how the federal government is handling immigration, it is a federal matter. States involvement is an obvious constitutional violation".

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:57:11am

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present a new kind of denial: nuke denial.

[Link: nukelies.com...]

83 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:57:34am

re: #50 bluecheese

OT

Is Herman Cain ‘essentially pro-choice’?

I think there is a difference between "What I would do if I were King" & "What I think the American Government should do under the law"

Seriously, I really hate tattoos, If I were king, there would be no tattoos. Am I about to make a big hulabaloo about tattoos? No, I'm just not going to get one and ignore them on others.

84 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:57:49am

re: #78 SanFranciscoZionist


Yodel-lo-lay-hee
--what?

85 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:58:00am

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm also not clear why 'revolutionary acts' performed off the clock should be an issue.

I'm thinking about the corporate foundation money they really do depend on. The Kochs are one of the biggest supporters of Lincoln Center.

86 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:58:26am

re: #56 Decatur Deb

Nessun Dorma almost became the Italian national anthem. All of Nabbucco was subversive of the Austrians.

[Video]

G-d, I love that song.

87 jaunte  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:58:34am

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't understand how they can legally stretch the presence of one of their freelancers at an off-hours event into an endorsement of the event by NPR.

88 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:58:44am

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present a new kind of denial: nuke denial.

[Link: nukelies.com...]

Just when you think people can't get any dumber...

89 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 11:59:55am

re: #88 rwdflynavy

Just when you think people can't get any dumber...

If there was anything, ever, that had a visible, highly believable demonstration, it is nuclear weaponry.

90 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:00:33pm

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

The stupid. It burns.

91 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:00:33pm

re: #86 ggt

G-d, I love that song.

Charlie (Winner) Sheen ruined it for me.

92 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:00:52pm

re: #89 Obdicut

If there was anything, ever, that had a visible, highly believable demonstration, it is nuclear weaponry.

All fake. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were carpet-/firebombed too. They have a separate forum for that!

93 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:01:09pm

re: #89 Obdicut

If there was anything, ever, that had a visible, highly believable demonstration, it is nuclear weaponry.

They probably did those on the same sound stage as teh MOON "LANDINGS"11!!!
//

94 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:01:49pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

All of Nabbucco was subversive of the Austrians

clearly, the liberals are communicating in sekrit code agin on their communist blogs

95 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:01:50pm

re: #92 Sergey Romanov

All fake. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were carpet-/firebombed too. They have a separate forum for that!

Hiroshima was an inside job.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:02:10pm

re: #87 jaunte

I don't understand how they can legally stretch the presence of one of their freelancers at an off-hours event into an endorsement of the event by NPR.

They can't, not in any legal sense. You do not give up freedom of assembly when you work as a freelancer for NPR.

97 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:02:13pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm also not clear why 'revolutionary acts' performed off the clock should be an issue.

define "revolutionary act" for starters..

Next, tell me why that is illegal and therefore grounds for dismissal?

98 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:03:19pm

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present a new kind of denial: nuke denial.

[Link: nukelies.com...]

They've got a whole section of "Other Revisionist Subjects"

Revisionism in Medicine: Childbirth made deliberately harsh

Revisionism in Biology and Medicine: HIV Does Not Exist

Abiotic oil and the jews [oil may not be from plants]

99 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:03:28pm

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present a new kind of denial: nuke denial.

[Link: nukelies.com...]

nothing surprises me.

100 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:04:07pm

re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sure. In fact, several of that forum's members are also members of the CODOH (Holocaust denial) forum.

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:05:00pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

They can't, not in any legal sense. You do not give up freedom of assembly when you work as a freelancer for NPR.

Do you give up any of your rights when you become employed?

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:05:04pm

re: #97 ggt

define "revolutionary act" for starters..

Next, tell me why that is illegal and therefore grounds for dismissal?

Hell, I've know people who would tell me that the damndest things are 'revolutionary acts'. Most of them aren't illegal in the slightest.

Now, how did this come to their attention? Did she get up on stage and scream "I'm the opera lady from NPR!" or something?

103 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:05:35pm

re: #92 Sergey Romanov

All fake. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were carpet-/firebombed too. They have a separate forum for that!

Oh god, are you familiar with this crap? It's like flat-earthism. It's denial of physics.

104 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:06:09pm

re: #100 Sergey Romanov

Sure. In fact, several of that forum's members are also members of the CODOH (Holocaust denial) forum.

"Register here for nothingeverhappened.blogspot.com."

105 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:06:19pm

re: #100 Sergey Romanov

Sure. In fact, several of that forum's members are also members of the CODOH (Holocaust denial) forum.

You know, for such a small ethnic group, the JUICE!11! sure are a busy bunch when it comes to world control and keeping folks down.
//

106 allegro  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:06:23pm

re: #86 ggt

G-d, I love that song.

One of THE best tenors ever...

(From a 99er who is passionate about opera. Just sayin'.)

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:06:38pm

re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They've got a whole section of "Other Revisionist Subjects"

Revisionism in Medicine: Childbirth made deliberately harsh

Revisionism in Biology and Medicine: HIV Does Not Exist

Abiotic oil and the jews [oil may not be from plants]

Oh, the HIV thing has made sufficient inroads with the feeble-minded, to the extent that when I worked for AIDSWalk, we had a branch of Act Up! (nutjob splitters), putting stickers all over town insisting that HIV is not bad for you.

108 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:06:41pm

re: #103 Obdicut

Oh god, are you familiar with this crap? It's like flat-earthism. It's denial of physics.

There is a very lively flat earth forum online. The problem is, I'm quite sure that all the participants of that forum do it for the lulz and are not actually serious. This one is serious.

109 Linden Arden  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:06:47pm

re: #66 engineer dog

Taibbi thinks there were $10 trillion in bailouts?

Absurd.

TARP was $700 billion.

He is trying to count Fed loans and their balance sheet is $2.8 trillion (a record). He doesn't know how the Fed operates.

110 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:07:14pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

"Register here for nothingeverhappened.blogspot.com."

"In fact, don't bother. We don't exist. Neither do you. Ta!"

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:07:18pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, I've know people who would tell me that the damndest things are 'revolutionary acts'. Most of them aren't illegal in the slightest.

Now, how did this come to their attention? Did she get up on stage and scream "I'm the opera lady from NPR!" or something?

Unless she was carrying a sign or wearing a t-shirt that said "I WORK FOR NPR and am trying to misrepresent their views on OWS" I can't see where her off-the-clock behavior is any of their business.

113 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:10:24pm

Freelancer heard on NPR stations fired for protest

Lisa Simeone said she was fired the previous evening from "Soundprint," a music documentary show that isn't produced by NPR but is aired by its affiliates across the country. She said the head of Soundprint Media Center Inc., which produces the show, read NPR's code of ethics to her before she was fired.

NPR also questioned Simeone's involvement in the "Occupy D.C." protest and said its ethics code applies to the shows it carries. But NPR said Simeone doesn't work for the radio network, and it hadn't pressured Soundprint to fire her.

Simeone also hosts "World of Opera," a show produced by North Carolina-based music and arts station WDAV. That program is distributed by NPR. She said that station is supporting her so far.

NPR didn't fire her, Soundpoint media did. I suppose someone could read their code of ethics and see if it was a violation or not.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:10:46pm

re: #101 ggt

Do you give up any of your rights when you become employed?

No, although continued employment can be contingent on doing or not doing things not mandated by law.

I think they can make a case for this, but I think any legal authority would find it very shaky. LAUSD canning the woman who did the crazy anti-Semitic interview is on more solid ground--she brought them into it, and did something that jeopardized their good name.

In a very simple example--I am entitled by law to send racist e-mails if I feel like it. However, if I send racist e-mails to people at work, I will get my behind fired.

115 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:12:17pm

re: #110 Sergey Romanov

"In fact, don't bother. We don't exist. Neither do you. Ta!"

Oh god. Is there a solipsists forum?

That would be the best thing ever.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:12:38pm

re: #103 Obdicut

Oh god, are you familiar with this crap? It's like flat-earthism. It's denial of physics.

I was reading an article in the SF Chronicle yesterday, about one family that lost their house and a family member in the Oakland fires twenty years ago.

They left two cars in the driveway, and when they were able to approach the house again, they found them melted into a single puddle.

I thought of the 'fire can't melt steel' Troofer argument, and the guy with the rabbit cage.

117 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:12:38pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Freelancer heard on NPR stations fired for protest

NPR didn't fire her, Soundpoint media did. I suppose someone could read their code of ethics and see if it was a violation or not.

Well, that makes me feel (just a little better). Maybe NPR could fire Soundpoint media?

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:12:47pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

No, although continued employment can be contingent on doing or not doing things not mandated by law.

I think they can make a case for this, but I think any legal authority would find it very shaky. LAUSD canning the woman who did the crazy anti-Semitic interview is on more solid ground--she brought them into it, and did something that jeopardized their good name.

In a very simple example--I am entitled by law to send racist e-mails if I feel like it. However, if I send racist e-mails to people at work, I will get my behind fired.

So, by simply being at the protest and having an affiliation with NPR, that how many people would recognize?, she was involving NPR?

She's not Walter Conkrite for Bob's sake.

119 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:13:09pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Thanks for digging that out.

So, we should conclude that the production company that makes "Soundprint" are the ones who are overly touchy about her activities?

120 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:13:17pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Freelancer heard on NPR stations fired for protest

NPR didn't fire her, Soundpoint media did. I suppose someone could read their code of ethics and see if it was a violation or not.

Good point.

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:13:18pm

re: #105 rwdflynavy

You know, for such a small ethnic group, the JUICE!11! sure are a busy bunch when it comes to world control and keeping folks down.
//

We're effective multitaskers. Also, we have minions.

122 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:13:21pm

re: #103 Obdicut

Oh god, are you familiar with this crap? It's like flat-earthism. It's denial of physics.

Speaking of denial of physics (not to mention a whole heaping pile of other things), check out this dead-thread derp.

The flaming ball of dumb thinks NOAA scientists are being greedy by asking for more money to fund weather satellites 9_9

123 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:13:26pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Oh god. Is there a solipsists forum?

That would be the best thing ever.

I've heard rumors of one being around, but I can't confirm it.

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:13:53pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Ha!

125 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:15:03pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

We're effective multitaskers. Also, we have minions.

Speaking of which....I haven't gotten my Zionist lackey check in a while...

126 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:15:20pm

re: #122 publicityStunted

The usual M.O. Why don't they every bother to lay out their objections in a supported way, say in a lengthy Page?

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:15:20pm

re: #118 ggt

So, by simply being at the protest and having an affiliation with NPR, that how many people would recognize?, she was involving NPR?

She's not Walter Conkrite for Bob's sake.

Yeah, I think it's weak. However, depending on employment laws, and also taking into account that she's a freelancer--they may not have to explain anything.

128 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:16:15pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

I was reading an article in the SF Chronicle yesterday, about one family that lost their house and a family member in the Oakland fires twenty years ago.

They left two cars in the driveway, and when they were able to approach the house again, they found them melted into a single puddle.

I thought of the 'fire can't melt steel' Troofer argument, and the guy with the rabbit cage.

"The fact this lighter fluid cannot melt chicken wire proves that high grade aviation fuel burning in an enclosed space for a sustained amount of time cannot affect steel. You cannot argue with that. Its science."

129 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:16:44pm

bbiab

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:17:05pm
Solipsism (play /ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/) is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. The term comes from Latin solus (alone) and ipse (self). Solipsism as an epistemological position holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist. Although the number of individuals sincerely espousing solipsism has been small, it is not uncommon for one philosopher to accuse another's arguments of entailing solipsism as an unwanted consequence, in a kind of reductio ad absurdum. In the history of philosophy, solipsism has also served as a skeptical hypothesis.

My question: How can I be sure that the inside of my mind exists?

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:17:25pm

re: #130 ggt

My question: How can I be sure that the inside of my mind exists?

cooool

132 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:17:55pm

re: #120 Obdicut

Good point.

Ethics Code

. NPR journalists may not speak to groups where the appearance might put in question NPR's impartiality. Such instances include situations where the employee's appearance may appear to endorse the agenda of a group or organization. This would include participation in some political debates and forums where the sponsoring group(s) or other participants are identified with a particular perspective on an issue or issues and NPR journalist's participation might put into question NPR's impartiality.

There's also a section saying that freelancers and people involved in cultural programing are also included.

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:18:24pm

Daily OMG! of kitteh!

134 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:18:28pm

re: #130 ggt

My question: How can I be sure that the inside of my mind exists?

It doesn't, except as a figment of my imagination.

135 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:18:50pm

re: #130 ggt

My question: How can I be sure that the inside of my mind exists?

What's an inside of a mind?

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:19:07pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

We're effective multitaskers. Also, we have minions.

I mean, right now, I am editing student essays, reading LGF, making borscht, and controlling media coverage of 9/11. Also, I just put a minor crank with a website on The List. The Illuminati agent I work with will pick up the case and begin following him to the grocery store.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:19:43pm

re: #125 rwdflynavy

Speaking of which...I haven't gotten my Zionist lackey check in a while...

I'm sure it's in the mail, but if you want, I can send a note to Bibi.

138 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:20:07pm

re: #133 ggt

Daily OMG! of kitteh!

Pff, I've got penguins wearing sweaters.

Where is your God now?

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:20:31pm

re: #135 Sergey Romanov

What's an inside of a mind?

Nothing, it doesn't exist.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:20:49pm

re: #130 ggt

My question: How can I be sure that the inside of my mind exists?

That's, like, deep, dude.

141 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:21:04pm

re: #139 ggt

Nothing, it doesn't exist.

I mean, conceptually.

142 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:21:31pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

That's, like, deep, dude.

What if dog spelled cat?

143 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:21:37pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, I think it's weak. However, depending on employment laws, and also taking into account that she's a freelancer--they may not have to explain anything.

A firing like this is probably technically fine, with how weak worker's rights are. It's still unethical to do.

144 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:22:03pm

re: #141 Sergey Romanov

I mean, conceptually.

That's just it --the mind is a concept --no?

It's a conundrum wrapped in an enigma packaged outside a concept.

145 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:22:25pm

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What if dog spelled cat?

HERETIC!!!!!!

146 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:23:57pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure it's in the mail, but if you want, I can send a note to Bibi.

Hey, will you mention me too! I haven't gotten mine in, like, months!

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:24:14pm

re: #144 ggt

Well, you got a point. Mind as we think of it is something "complex". Basically, a solipsist seizes on the "cogito ergo sum" principle - I think, therefore I am. Who that "I" is is left unclear. The principle should be "I think, therefore something is", this something left undefined.

148 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:25:54pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

Ethics Code

There's also a section saying that freelancers and people involved in cultural programing are also included.

Well, unless the person was identifying themselves as representing NPR, I think that's an asinine policy. That's about as restrictive as for active duty military personnel.

149 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:26:16pm

re: #143 Obdicut

A firing like this is probably technically fine, with how weak worker's rights are. It's still unethical to do.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. How many lefties objected to Juan Williams' firing as a free speech issue? NPR has its code of ethics and is pretty serious about applying it. They would have done the same thing if this lady had become a spokesperson for a Tea Party rally.

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:26:32pm

re: #147 Sergey Romanov

Well, you got a point. Mind as we think of it is something "complex". Basically, a solipsist seizes on the "cogito ergo sum" principle - I think, therefore I am. Who that "I" is is left unclear. The principle should be "I think, therefore something exists", this something left undefined.

I think it's more like I feel, therefore I am. We know nothing without our senses.

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:27:42pm

re: #150 ggt

I think it's more like I feel, therefore I am. We know nothing without our senses.

Well, "I think" is still fair - after all he does "think" this thought. We're now at the level where we might as well ask what the definition of "is" is ;)

152 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:28:14pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

I guess it depends on how you look at it. How many lefties objected to Juan Williams' firing as a free speech issue?

Juan Williams was a political commentator. I'm fine with NPR having restrictions in place for its political commentators. That makes perfect sense. You want at least some objectivity there.

But extending it to the cultural programs is just dumb. It's like political correctness inverted, political sterility.

153 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:28:22pm

It's kinda Kantian --we have minds because we all agree we have minds.

The Mind isn't a concrete thing we can sense, it is something we've constructed.

154 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:28:48pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Well, unless the person was identifying themselves as representing NPR, I think that's an asinine policy. That's about as restrictive as for active duty military personnel.

It is a pretty restrictive policy but NPR takes ethics pretty seriously. If they fire her or keep her I won't be outraged either way.

155 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:29:02pm

re: #151 Sergey Romanov

Well, "I think" is still fair - after all he does "think" this thought. We're now at the level where we might as well ask what the definition of "is" is ;)

That sounds like a job for Talmud Scholars. Way above my pay-grade and out of my religious league.

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:29:16pm

re: #153 ggt

It's kinda Kantian --we have minds because we all agree we have minds.

The Mind isn't a concrete thing we can sense, it is something we've constructed.

*puff*

157 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:29:20pm

Am I hallucinating that there is now a discussion about the foundations of consciousness going on? I thought I was only in a mildly altered state.

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:29:43pm

re: #155 ggt

That sounds like a job for Talmud Scholars. Way above my pay-grade and out of my religious league.

Or just ask Bill Clinton ;)

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:30:14pm

re: #157 Obdicut

Am I hallucinating that there is now a discussion about the foundations of consciousness going on?

Yes.

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:30:22pm

re: #157 Obdicut

Am I hallucinating that there is now a discussion about the foundations of consciousness going on? I thought I was only in a mildly altered state.

It's the high you get when you finish writing a book. It can last for days.

I'd advise not driving or operating machinery.

161 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:31:08pm

Serg --I proclaim you exist.

Now if you'll do the same for me, we can have a discussion.

:0

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:31:16pm

re: #148 Obdicut

Well, unless the person was identifying themselves as representing NPR, I think that's an asinine policy. That's about as restrictive as for active duty military personnel.

NPR journalists may not participate in marches and rallies involving causes or issues that NPR covers, nor should they sign petitions or otherwise lend their name to such causes, or contribute money to them.

Well, that covers them, assuming this is legally watertight.

Good LORD, that's one hell of a policy, though. Is there a vow of chastity tucked in there that I didn't see?

163 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:31:44pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

That would fly if they would fire Mara Liaason also who mugs on Fox almost daily and joins in to the Obama bashing sessions. IS she representing NPR when she does that? She's a full employee of NPR.

164 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:31:53pm

re: #161 ggt

Serg --I proclaim you exist.

Now if you'll do the same for me, we can have a discussion.

:0

You do exist. But inside my mind or outside? That's the question...

165 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:32:03pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

It is a pretty restrictive policy but NPR takes ethics pretty seriously. If they fire her or keep her I won't be outraged either way.

I think it's unethical, though. Ethics don't automatically get better the more restrictive they are. What this does is prize the appearance-- but just the appearance, given the limited nature of the restriction-- of no conflicts of interest over common sense.

A woman just lost her job because of bullshit, to me. Which is not something I'm going to be throwing TVs through shop windows about, but it is, in its small, mean, petty way, outrageous.

166 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:33:04pm

The definition of "is:"

Present 3rd person singular of be

167 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:33:36pm

Anyone use Chrome here?

168 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:33:47pm

re: #164 Sergey Romanov

You do exist. But inside my mind or outside? That's the question...

Well, if I am a construct of your mind -- why did you make me with bad joints and an addiction for fresh coffee?

169 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:34:06pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Juan Williams was a political commentator. I'm fine with NPR having restrictions in place for its political commentators. That makes perfect sense. You want at least some objectivity there.

But extending it to the cultural programs is just dumb. It's like political correctness inverted, political sterility.

Well, suppose Click and Clack from Cartalk decided to start giving speeches at Tea Parties. All of a sudden NPR has a non political show involved in a political cause. Lefties would complain, boycott, etc. It would hurt NPR's image and programing. The rules may be too harsh but I applaud them from sticking to their own ethics code.

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:34:09pm

re: #168 ggt

Well, if I am a construct of your mind -- why did you make me with bad joints and an addiction for fresh coffee?

Sorry :(

171 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:34:09pm

re: #167 Gus 802

Yep.

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:34:50pm

re: #166 Charles

The definition of "is:"

You took Latin, didn't you?

173 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:35:02pm

It looks to me like that section of NPR's ethics policy is a direct reaction to the constant attacks by right wing hatchetmen. The right didn't just start hating NPR -- they've been trying to kill NPR and PBS for decades now.

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:35:50pm

re: #172 ggt

You took Latin, didn't you?

"Now put it back."

175 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:35:59pm

re: #171 Obdicut

Yep.

Guess you're not having problems with it since you haven't said anything. I reinstalled Chrome and I'm still getting a 1.4 gig load for the memory (private working set) on the front page of LGF. Much less using Safari.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:36:28pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

I guess it depends on how you look at it. How many lefties objected to Juan Williams' firing as a free speech issue? NPR has its code of ethics and is pretty serious about applying it. They would have done the same thing if this lady had become a spokesperson for a Tea Party rally.

And if they had, we would have a whole different set of people complaining.

177 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:37:10pm

re: #174 Sergey Romanov

"Now put it back."

"No, no, no keep it. Please."

178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:39:15pm

Voice of Daniel Schorr

"Voiceprints, brought to you by grants from the Industrial War Complex, Big Oil, and Wall Street..."

179 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:39:24pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

That would apply to NPR journalists. She's a journalist? Like you said, that's one heck of a sweeping statement on such things, and would likely mean that others who work there would be unable to engage in any kind of charitable or other kind of activity that NPR has reason to cover.

Someone does a walk in the Komen Walk for the Cure? Toast.
Someone participates in an AIDS fundraiser? Toast.
OWS? Toast.

It would seem to be so overbroad as to make the policy unworkable. From NPR's position, the idea is to avoid an appearance of impropriety, but the result is to limit the person's right of assembly and speech when not working because they might be engaging in an activity that the company might cover at some point as newsworthy.

180 Linden Arden  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:40:02pm

OT:

Is there still a defrag in Windows? (XP) How do you clean the temp file junk off your disk?

Thanks. I am obviously not a techie and I notice many here are light years past my modest capability.

181 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:40:52pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

Well, suppose Click and Clack from Cartalk decided to start giving speeches at Tea Parties. All of a sudden NPR has a non political show involved in a political cause.

I seriously wouldn't care, unless they were saying terrible, stupid, racist shit. If this woman is at OWS and saying things that aren't offensive, then I have no problem with them. If Click and Clack are at a tea party rally and speak things that aren't offensive, then good for them; they'd raise the value of the discourse there.

Lefties would complain, boycott, etc. It would hurt NPR's image and programing. The rules may be too harsh but I applaud them from sticking to their own ethics code.

I'm not sure lefties would boycott. Sure, if they were saying offensive stuff or promoting birtherism. But that's not about ethics. Lots of people will boycott if you present the gay lifestyle in a positive way, too. The number of people boycotting something doesn't indicate jack about ethics, just about how their audience will react.

That's not a good foundation for an ethics code, to me. I'd much rather they stayed strong and defended the right of non-news and politics journalists to have whatever political affiliations they like.

I hope they're at least consistent about this.

182 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:41:37pm

re: #175 Gus 802

Guess you're not having problems with it since you haven't said anything. I reinstalled Chrome and I'm still getting a 1.4 gig load for the memory (private working set) on the front page of LGF. Much less using Safari.

Bleh. Make that OPERA. Damn thing is driving me nuts. Just did it again. I tested it. I think it might be that Jon Stewart video.

183 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:41:47pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

And if they had, we would have a whole different set of people complaining.

Exactly.

184 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:42:43pm

re: #175 Gus 802

Guess you're not having problems with it since you haven't said anything. I reinstalled Chrome and I'm still getting a 1.4 gig load for the memory (private working set) on the front page of LGF. Much less using Safari.

That's about what I have for all my like 30 tabs.

185 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:43:11pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

I guess it depends on how you look at it. How many lefties objected to Juan Williams' firing as a free speech issue? NPR has its code of ethics and is pretty serious about applying it. They would have done the same thing if this lady had become a spokesperson for a Tea Party rally.

I'm weird in that I like to choose sides and not sit on the sidelines pretending to be on some high moral plane. Frankly, I never thought Williams should have been fired either. What they did here is bullshit and downright un-American.

186 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:43:17pm

re: #180 Linden Arden
Yes. You can defrag your hard drive. Local disc then right click on Properties and click on Tools at the top.

187 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:43:40pm

re: #12 aagcobb

She may have upset the show's target audience, since the 99% wouldn't listen to an opera show if someone paid them to./

Welcome to my shop.
Let me cut your mop.
Daintily. Daintily.

:D

188 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:45:02pm

re: #180 Linden Arden

OT:

Is there still a defrag in Windows? (XP) How do you clean the temp file junk off your disk?

Thanks. I am obviously not a techie and I notice many here are light years past my modest capability.

Right click on drive, properties, tools. There's a defrag option. I forget but I think you may have to schedule it and reboot to get it to defrag.

189 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:45:07pm

re: #180 Linden Arden

OT:

Is there still a defrag in Windows? (XP) How do you clean the temp file junk off your disk?

Thanks. I am obviously not a techie and I notice many here are light years past my modest capability.

Right click on the start button, choose explore.

When it opens to the directory, you should be able to see all your drives.

Right click on the drive you want, choose properties. Under General, pick disk cleanup to clear out junk files. Defrag can be found under the tools tab.

190 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:45:40pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

Well, suppose Click and Clack from Cartalk decided to start giving speeches at Tea Parties. All of a sudden NPR has a non political show involved in a political cause. Lefties would complain, boycott, etc. It would hurt NPR's image and programing. The rules may be too harsh but I applaud them from sticking to their own ethics code.

I'm trying to imagine certain NPR personalities without their political views. David Sedaris on undecided voters:

"I look at these people and can't quite believe that
they exist. Are they professional actors? I wonder.
Or are they simply laymen who want a lot of attention?

To put them in perspective, I think of being on an
airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle
with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside
my seat. "Can I interest you in the chicken?" she
asks. "Or would you prefer the platter of shit with
bits of broken glass in it?"

To be undecided in this election is to pause for a
moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked."

Or Sarah Vowell on Obama:

The thing I love about Senator Obama is that he is, deep down, a doer of homework. I love hearing about how his mother made him get up at 4:30 in the morning to study. I think Colin Powell alluded to this when he talked about deciding to endorse Obama—that McCain hadn’t done his foreign policy homework and Obama had. All I want is a chief executive who had done/will do the reading! The messes we’re in now at home and abroad are going to require a detail-oriented thinker. I think that every election though.

191 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:46:22pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Right click on drive, properties, tools. There's a defrag option. I forget but I think you may have to schedule it and reboot to get it to defrag.

You should only need to reboot if you're doing a boot sector defrag.

192 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:48:06pm

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present a new kind of denial: nuke denial.

[Link: nukelies.com...]

Apparently there is no conspiracy theory too stupid for someone to believe.

193 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:48:20pm

Click and Clack on the current set of GOP Presidential candidates - treating them as different makes of cars with various issues - would probably be quite entertaining.

194 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:50:13pm
195 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:50:14pm

The right has always had a disdain for NPR and PBS. At least as long as I can remember.
I recall an episode of Phil Donahue from the 80's where the were decrying a left-leaning bias. Granted, the episode had WN's who hated Sesame Street because it glorified white and black kids dancing and singing together...Well yeah, they were extremely RW...but my point still stands.

196 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:51:00pm

Well. Here's a screen shot of Task Manager if anyone's interested. This is right about when I killed it at 1.2 gigabytes after it froze up Opera.

Image: task-manager.jpg

197 Linden Arden  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:51:51pm

Thanks, all.

198 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:52:29pm

re: #197 Linden Arden
You are welcome.

199 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:52:34pm

The BEST report is in pre-publication release:

The heat is on
A new analysis of the temperature record leaves little room for the doubters. The world is warming

[Link: www.economist.com...]

And shocker of all shockers - this analysis that was previously embraced by "climate skeptics" is now being denounced by the same folks.

Not because they can find fault with the findings (after all, they approved of the methodology when they mistakenly thought they would prove an Urban Heat Island effect), but because of the process of "pre-publication" release.

It is too laugh.

200 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:53:47pm

re: #196 Gus 802

Well. Here's a screen shot of Task Manager if anyone's interested. This is right about when I killed it at 1.2 gigabytes after it froze up Opera.

Image: task-manager.jpg

Coming in through the back door of LGF isn't locking up Opera. That is just going to an article directly from a Google search.

201 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:55:25pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

NPR journalists may not participate in marches and rallies involving causes or issues that NPR covers, nor should they sign petitions or otherwise lend their name to such causes, or contribute money to them.

Well, that covers them, assuming this is legally watertight.

Good LORD, that's one hell of a policy, though. Is there a vow of chastity tucked in there that I didn't see?

Sounds like they're trying to protect themselves from Teh Wingnut.

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:55:29pm

re: #199 Talking Point Detective

Good. Muller already testified before (Inhofe's?) committee but that was preliminary (though he already was condemned by the deniers). Muller was suspect for a time because he himself used some denier canards. Well, so much better that he turned out to be objective.

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:56:23pm

re: #200 Gus 802

For some reason Opera began to run LGF very slowly. I would sometimes use it for LGF, but now I mostly run LGF on Firefox.

204 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:56:42pm

re: #200 Gus 802

Coming in through the back door of LGF isn't locking up Opera. That is just going to an article directly from a Google search.

Back Door? I've never been shown the back door . . .

hmmm

205 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:57:11pm

re: #199 Talking Point Detective

The BEST report is in pre-publication release:


[Link: www.economist.com...]

And shocker of all shockers - this analysis that was previously embraced by "climate skeptics" is now being denounced by the same folks.

Not because they can find fault with the findings (after all, they approved of the methodology when they mistakenly thought they would prove an Urban Heat Island effect), but because of the process of "pre-publication" release.

It is too laugh.

I think The DERP Method (as compared to the Scientific Method) is a variant of Last Tuesdayism where the world is constantly recreated with new 'data' every day and all previously reported facts and opinion are simply artifacts that should be ignored as "noise" in the process of creation. As long as it supported the desired outcome.

206 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:57:53pm

re: #200 Gus 802

I'm not a fan of Opera - I find Safari or Chrome to be much better browsers. Faster, less buggy, better support for web standards.

I use Safari as my main browser on both the PC and the Mac.

207 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:58:36pm

The sweet, sweet Koch money that went to show (once again) that yeah, there's the global warming.

208 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:59:07pm

re: #203 Sergey Romanov

For some reason Opera began to run LGF very slowly. I would sometimes use it for LGF, but now I mostly run LGF on Firefox.

Did it again. Yeesh. Went to a single page and it was fine. Went to the main page and boom! Didn't start happening until that Jon Stewart video went up. Actually gets higher than 1.4GB.

209 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:59:46pm

re: #208 Gus 802

Did it again. Yeesh. Went to a single page and it was fine. Went to the main page and boom! Didn't start happening until that Jon Stewart video went up. Actually gets higher than 1.4GB.

I blame Adam Sandler.

210 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 12:59:50pm
211 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:00:23pm

re: #206 Charles

I'm not a fan of Opera - I find Safari or Chrome to be much better browsers. Faster, less buggy, better support for web standards.

I use Safari as my main browser on both the PC and the Mac.

I thought I liked it and then this started happening. Drives me crazy with all the back and forth on this laptop. Using Safari now. Maybe I'll finally give Chrome a shot.

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:00:28pm

re: #208 Gus 802

Well, my advice is to use Opera for browsing and something else for LGF.

213 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:00:47pm

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

Good. Muller already testified before (Inhofe's?) committee but that was preliminary (though he already was condemned by the deniers). Muller was suspect for a time because he himself used some denier canards. Well, so much better that he turned out to be objective.

Watching them fall all over themselves to backtrack on BEST's findings is hilarious.

For years they argued that the trends of warming as estimated by climate scientists was inaccurate because it failed to control for the Urban Heat Island effect.

They initially applauded BEST's effort because it specifically focused on controlling for any potential UHI effect. When the preliminary results were released, they turned on BEST because of the manner in which the findings were released, and now they will do the same.

The bottom line is that they will need to denounce any findings that stand in contrast with their claims that AGW is a socialist, eco-Nazi hoax.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why they're called "deniers," as opposed to the monicker "skeptics" which they want to use.

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:01:57pm

I've been using Opera since about version 3.75 or so. Hard to revise habits ;)

215 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:02:10pm

Somebody ought to make a browser that is seriously tweaked for blogging, or at least add ins that favor embedded video and 1000 comments, updinging and so forth.

216 Gus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:02:59pm

BIAB or so.

217 freetoken  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:03:46pm

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

To me Muller always struck me as someone who just wanted attention (e.g., his physics for Presidents book), and that he had a particular antipathy towards Al Gore, rather than being hot to trot for the WTFUWT crowd.

218 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:04:41pm

re: #217 freetoken

Yuh, maybe. Well, he did a good deed in the process.

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:06:06pm

The people who won't be convinced by BEST... won't be convinced by anything.

220 jaunte  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:07:44pm
NPR journalists may not participate in marches and rallies involving causes or issues that NPR covers, nor should they sign petitions or otherwise lend their name to such causes, or contribute money to them.

I suppose this means that everyone who wants to participate in political-speech- by-contribution should incorporate themselves.

221 Amory Blaine  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:08:35pm

This must be an attempt at balance for the Juan Williams incident.

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:08:54pm

re: #220 jaunte

I suppose this means that everyone who wants to participate in political-speech- by-contribution should incorporate themselves.

Well, that's it, I could never be an NPR employee.

My dreams are just crushed.

223 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:10:42pm

re: #220 jaunte

I suppose this means that everyone who wants to participate in political-speech- by-contribution should incorporate themselves.

I guess you hand in your 1st amendment political rights at the door at NPR. How very... tyrannical. And ironic to say the least.

224 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:11:06pm

re: #220 jaunte

I suppose this means that everyone who wants to participate in political-speech- by-contribution should incorporate themselves.

"It wasn't me, it was my Corporate Self: "The Person who is Not Me Inc."

"Honest Judge, I've never seen that girl before."

:0

225 Stephen T.  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:11:39pm

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

They can't, not in any legal sense. You do not give up freedom of assembly when you work as a freelancer for NPR.

There are many employers who would like to have their employees give up the freedom of assembly the moment they hire you. I've worked half a dozen minimum wage jobs so far in my life and all of them reminded the new employee that participating in certain events, even when not during work hours was discouraged.

They took this discouragement as far as firing on more than one occasion. I was personally fired for being seen at a political fundraiser put on by a pro union group. That is, a group that supports unions and unionizing publicly was raising money for a political candidate had an event, I went to it for the candidate, but was fired because of who put the event on. They didn't want a pro union employee in their store.

226 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:13:29pm

Maroon 5 frontman to Fox News. Stop. Okay, he said more than 'stop'...

227 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:13:44pm

re: #219 Sergey Romanov

The people who won't be convinced by BEST... won't be convinced by anything.

I should update. Watts is finding problems with the methodology. Get this.

He's complaining that BESTs statistical analysis includes data from too long a time period.

I kid you not. He's complaining that the data sample is too large.

And sure enough, the sycophants at his site are lining up to impugn the "motivations" of all those involved in BEST. Surprisingly, they have come up with explanations such conspiracies involving Greenpeace, the WWF, and librul academics in general.

228 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:13:44pm

re: #225 Scarecrow237

There are many employers who would like to have their employees give up the freedom of assembly the moment they hire you. I've worked half a dozen minimum wage jobs so far in my life and all of them reminded the new employee that participating in certain events, even when not during work hours was discouraged.

They took this discouragement as far as firing on more than one occasion. I was personally fired for being seen at a political fundraiser put on by a pro union group. That is, a group that supports unions and unionizing publicly was raising money for a political candidate had an event, I went to it for the candidate, but was fired because of who put the event on. They didn't want a pro union employee in their store.

The only thing I've been warned about not to do things as a minimum wage employee is talk about wages with other employees.

229 SpaceJesus  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:15:33pm

current drudge headline pushes boundaries of derp

230 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:15:44pm

re: #227 Talking Point Detective

I should update. Watts is finding problems with the methodology. Get this.

He's complaining that BESTs statistical analysis includes data from too long a time period.

I kid you not. He's complaining that the data sample is too large.

And sure enough, the sycophants at his site are lining up to impugn the "motivations" of all those involved in BEST. Surprisingly, they have come up with explanations such conspiracies involving Greenpeace, the WWF, and librul academics in general.

Well, The World Wrestling Federation is a conspiracy, so I guess even blind squirrels find some nuts. ;)

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:16:29pm

re: #230 oaktree

Well, The World Wrestling Federation is a conspiracy, so I guess even blind squirrels find some nuts. ;)

it is?

I thought it was just theatre--no?

232 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:16:36pm

Breaking news: Brotherly Leader and Guide of the Revolution of the Great Socialist People’s Libyan Arab Jamahiriya Muammar Kaddafi is still dead.

233 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:17:33pm

re: #232 Sergey Romanov
Breaking as in a few hours ago. //

234 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:17:56pm

re: #233 PhillyPretzel

Breaking as in a few hours ago. //

A few hours ago he was just dead. Now he is still dead.

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:18:34pm

re: #233 PhillyPretzel

Breaking as in a few hours ago. //

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

236 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:18:41pm

re: #234 Sergey Romanov
LOL

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:18:43pm

re: #234 Sergey Romanov

A few hours ago he was just dead. Now he is still dead.

It's good to know that dead is still dead in our Brave New World.

At least not everything has changed.

238 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:18:50pm

re: #234 Sergey Romanov

A few hours ago he was just dead. Now he is still dead.

Can he be presumed to BE dead in a couple of more hours?

239 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:19:34pm

re: #237 ggt

It's good to know that dead is still dead in our Brave New World.

At least not everything has changed.

"I thought you were dead"

"I got better"

240 Interesting Times  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:19:40pm
BreakingNews Breaking News
US officials tell NBC News a US Predator drone fired hellfire missile at convoy carrying Gadhafi, who was then captured - @AnnCurry
241 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:20:02pm

re: #240 publicityStunted

and is now dead.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:20:07pm

re: #238 sattv4u2

Can he be presumed to BE dead in a couple of more hours?

I will update you.

243 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:20:14pm

re: #232 Sergey Romanov

Breaking news: Brotherly Leader and Guide of the Revolution of the Great Socialist People’s Libyan Arab Jamahiriya Muammar Kaddafi is still dead.

Colonel Kaddafi is now Corporal Kaddafi.

Or was that incorporeal Kaddafi?

244 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:20:33pm

re: #243 wrenchwench

Colonel Kaddafi is now Corporal Kaddafi.

Or was that incorporeal Kaddafi?

naw, he is just dead.

245 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:20:54pm

re: #240 publicityStunted

Where was B HUSSEIN OBOMBYA at the time?!

Works because no matter what the answer, they can be outraged by it.

246 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:21:10pm

re: #241 ggt

and is now dead.

He's not just dead...he's really most sincerely dead.

247 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:21:13pm

re: #243 wrenchwench

Colonel Kaddafi is now Corporal Kaddafi.

Or was that incorporeal Kaddafi?

He is now a Coproral Kaddafi.

248 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:21:25pm

re: #243 wrenchwench

Colonel Kaddafi is now Corporal Kaddafi.

Or was that incorporeal Kaddafi?

Corpse Kaddafi.

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:21:39pm

re: #245 Obdicut

Works because no matter what the answer, they can be outraged by it.

Probably playing basketball in that court he had installed in the basement of the WH.

/

250 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:21:50pm

re: #240 publicityStunted

Obama didn't want it but the joint chiefs threatened a coup. (Pam Geller mode)

251 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:22:47pm

re: #240 publicityStunted

Ban the drones! Stop the wars!

252 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:23:18pm

re: #246 darthstar

He's not just dead...he's really most sincerely dead.

[Video]

ok, he is now, sincerely, dead.

I really don't understand why "dead" needs any qualifiers.

253 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:24:41pm

bbaiam...

254 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:25:02pm

Qaddaffi was only 24 hours away from being raptured into heaven. Talk about shitty luck.

255 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:25:15pm

re: #252 ggt

ok, he is now, sincerely, dead.

I really don't understand why "dead" needs any qualifiers.

Except "very", maybe.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:25:56pm

re: #255 Sergey Romanov

Except "very", maybe.

I just don't think there are any degrees of dead.

dead is dead.

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:26:46pm

re: #256 ggt

I just don't think there are any degrees of dead.

dead is dead.

party pooper

258 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:27:51pm

Well...someone's supervisor is going to have to have a talk with HR.

A local news station reports that after a co-worker began giving CPR to 67-year-old Julia Nelson, a supervisor allegedly told her to stop and “get back on the phone and take care of customers.”

She died

259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:28:11pm

By William of Orange in a previous thread, Kaddafi still alive just after getting out of the car:

[Link: www.vkmag.com...]

260 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:28:12pm

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

party pooper

Ok, we could go with warm, cold, stiff, stone, disintegrated, mummified, dust.

But these really don't relate to dead . . .

261 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:28:46pm

re: #259 Sergey Romanov

By William of Orange in a previous thread, Kaddafi still alive just after getting out of the car:

[Link: www.vkmag.com...]

Well, he is dead now.

262 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:29:03pm

re: #261 ggt

Well, he is dead now.

Truly dead?

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:29:15pm

re: #258 darthstar

Well...someone's supervisor is going to have to have a talk with HR.

She died

I've worked for people like that.

Thank God, none of them have ever had a chance to show it so BLATANTLY.

264 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:29:25pm

re: #252 ggt

ok, he is now, sincerely, dead.

I really don't understand why "dead" needs any qualifiers.

(Messenger 2 arrives)
Messenger 2: My Lord, news...
King: What?
Messenger 2: The King of France sends his greetings.
King: Ah, good news!

(Messenger 2 leaves)

King: My diplomacy triumphs.

(Messenger 3 arrives)
Messenger 3: My Lord, news...
King: What?
Messenger 3: Lord Wessex is dead.

King: (raises his arms in triumph; Messenger 3 raises his arms too)
Ah-- (lowers his arms) This news is not so good.

Messenger 3: Pardon, My Lord?

King: I like it not. Bring me some other news.

Messenger 3: Pardon, My Lord?

King: I LIKE NOT THIS NEWS! BRING ME SOME OTHER NEWS!!!
Messenger 3: Yes, My Lord!

(Messenger 3 leaves; King tosses things aroung angrily;
Messenger 4 enters -- actually just Messenger 3 pretending to be a new messenger delivering new news.)

Messenger 4: My Lord, news...
King: What?
Messenger 4: Lord Wessex is not dead.
King: Ah, good news! (lifts his arms halfway; Messenger 4 does also)
Let there be joy and celebration; let jubilation reign!
Messenger 4: Yes, My Lord.

265 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:29:40pm

re: #256 ggt

I just don't think there are any degrees of dead.

dead is dead.

very dead is when you are dead and if you somehow came back to life i would keel! keel! keel! you again you bastaaard!

266 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:29:48pm

re: #262 Sergey Romanov

Truly dead?

absolutely, stone cold, stiff as a door, dead.

267 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:29:50pm

Hey...I've got a number:
Mar 29, 1964
#3,297,986,496
As we close in on seven billion people on the planet, I have to say, never trust anyone born after 4 billion.
[Link: populationaction.org...]

268 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:30:14pm

re: #240 publicityStunted

Obama is on a freaking spree against bastards who0 have attacked us.

The only guys left I can think of are Zawahiri and Gadahn.

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:30:23pm

re: #266 ggt

absolutely, stone cold, stiff as a door, dead.

Some fine qualifiers there. ;)

270 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:30:47pm

re: #256 ggt

You sure about that?

271 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:31:11pm

re: #266 ggt

absolutely, stone cold, stiff as a door, dead.

As dead as Rick Santorum's chance of being president?

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:31:18pm

re: #262 Sergey Romanov

Truly dead?

I watched a CSI episode last night, where the group was called out to a homicide, but then the guy turned out not be actually dead, merely badly injured.

They referred to this, when they called in, as the victim "Frankensteining". I don't know if that's a real term or not.

273 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:31:48pm

re: #269 Sergey Romanov

Some fine qualifiers there. ;)

tag on the toe, put 'em in the fridge, say your prayers, 6 foot under, DEAD!

274 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:32:17pm

re: #269 Sergey Romanov
Deader than two nails in the same hole.

275 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:32:22pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

I watched a CSI episode last night, where the group was called out to a homicide, but then the guy turned out not be actually dead, merely badly injured.

They referred to this, when they called in, as the victim "Frankensteining". I don't know if that's a real term or not.

They totally stole it.

276 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:33:05pm

re: #275 Sergey Romanov

They totally stole it.

[Video]

This had better be Young Frankenstein or I'll be sadly disappointed for clicking on the link.

Okay, Monty Python...close enough.

277 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:33:12pm

re: #271 darthstar

As dead as Rick Santorum's chance of being president?

As dead as Aaron Burr's father's chances of being POTUS.

278 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:34:13pm

re: #268 ProLifeLiberal

There's a few high profile terrorists who ought to be consigned to the Hellfire list. Adnan G. El Shukrijumah and Anas Al-Liby among 'em.

279 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:34:43pm

worm-food, stinkin', rotten, petrified, freakin' DEAD!

280 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:35:11pm

re: #279 ggt

worm-food, stinkin', rotten, petrified, freakin' DEAD!

snap out of it ;)

281 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:36:07pm

re: #280 Sergey Romanov

snap out of it ;)

You started it :)'

282 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:36:17pm

re: #279 ggt

worm-food, stinkin', rotten, petrified, freakin' DEAD!

Rigor mortis should have set in by now.

283 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:36:23pm

re: #279 ggt

I want him dead...

(F-bomb alert)
284 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:36:28pm

re: #276 darthstar

This had better be Young Frankenstein or I'll be sadly disappointed for clicking on the link.

Okay, Monty Python...close enough.

I was going to ask if they pronouced it Fraunk-n-steen. ;)

285 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:36:47pm

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This dictator is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-DICTATOR!!

286 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:38:08pm

re: #267 darthstar

Hey...I've got a number:
Mar 29, 1964
#3,297,986,496
As we close in on seven billion people on the planet, I have to say, never trust anyone born after 4 billion.
[Link: populationaction.org...]

Get behind me, punk

#2,910,434,013

287 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:38:36pm

re: #285 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn. Now I want a pissed off John Cleese to moderate the next GOP debate. You could cut the sarcasm that would erupt there with a knife.

288 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:38:43pm

He's dead, Jim.

Tell me someone hasn't posted this already.

289 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:38:58pm

re: #280 Sergey Romanov

re: #281 ggt

dead [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

The final words.

290 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:39:32pm

bbl

291 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:39:56pm

re: #278 lawhawk

They'll never sleep again, now that they are being hunted like rats.

292 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:40:40pm

re: #286 wrenchwench

Get behind me, punk

What amazes me is that my wife was born 140 million people after me, and I still found her. How cool is that?

293 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:40:52pm

re: #287 oaktree

Damn. Now I want a pissed off John Cleese to moderate the next GOP debate. You could cut the sarcasm that would erupt there with a knife.

Rowan Atkinson. Give the GOP prep tapes of Mr Bean for what to expect, then have him go Blackadder on them.

294 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:41:57pm

re: #293 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rowan Atkinson. Give the GOP prep tapes of Mr Bean for what to expect, then have him go Blackadder on them.

I'd like him to paint a room Mr Bean style while they are in it. :)

I like you, you're evil.

295 Tumulus11  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:42:48pm

. Euthanized.

'I will cleanse Libya house by house.'
// Moammar Gaddafi Feb. 22, 2011.

'Don't shoot! Don't shoot!'
// Moammar Gaddafi Oct. 20, 2011.

296 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:43:42pm

re: #292 darthstar

What amazes me is that my wife was born 140 million people after me, and I still found her. How cool is that?

My wife and I are separated by 616,374,552.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:44:01pm

re: #295 Tumulus11

"Not in the nads, not in the nads!"

Sorry, sorry. I think cruel humor is OK in this case ;)

298 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:44:08pm

Gaddafi is not dead.

That was an exact replica created by our alien overlords, and substituted in at the last nanosecond.

The real Gaddafi is being transported to Alpha Centauri, because they can keep him alive and in solitary confinement* a lot longer than we could have.

*He has to listen to tapes of every boy pop singer, every boy band, every heavily-autotuned bad female American pop singer constantly, loud, while eating spam and spaghettio's. Oh, and generic cloying Kool aid.

299 darthstar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:45:12pm

re: #298 EmmmieG

Gaddafi is not dead.


*He has to listen to tapes of every boy pop singer, every boy band, every heavily-autotuned bad female American pop singer constantly, loud, while eating spam and spaghettio's. Oh, and generic cloying Kool aid.

But not on Fox News and not Maroon 5
[Link: www.rollingstone.com...]

300 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:45:45pm

re: #293 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rowan Atkinson. Give the GOP prep tapes of Mr Bean for what to expect, then have him go Blackadder on them.

How about all their meals being made and served by Gareth Blackstock? (Lenny Henry character who was a chef).

301 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:50:36pm

re: #292 darthstar

What amazes me is that my wife was born 140 million people after me, and I still found her. How cool is that?

re: #296 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My wife and I are separated by 616,374,552.

Mr. w and I have you two beat: 632,433,984. (He was before me, of course.)

302 Kragar  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:53:31pm

My oldest daughter and I are almost 3 billion people apart.

303 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 1:54:43pm

re: #258 darthstar

Well...someone's supervisor is going to have to have a talk with HR.

She died

That's completely fucked...by telling the employee to stop CPR and and not making every effort to get that AED, those TWC supervisors just opened up themselves and TWC to possible prosecution under that same Good Samaritan law that they were trying to avoid liability from, as well as a civil suit from the victim's family.

Good job, you fucking heartless morons...

304 fizzlogic  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 2:09:28pm

The tentacles of the one percent reach deeply -- even into public radio. After all, none of it would be brought to us without corporate sponsorship. How dare that women protest against her betters.

305 Ming  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 2:13:00pm

re: #303 talon_262

What a tragedy! I hope this becomes a prominent news story. Beyond the great tragedy, it's also a reminder than some work environments are just plain lacking of all humanity.

It's a shame the employee stopped giving CPR. Was this due to obedience to authority? Fear of getting sued? We may never know, but this is a story to take to heart. I hope the police and the district attorney stay on this!

306 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 2:20:35pm

...

307 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 2:31:17pm

re: #298 EmmmieG

Gaddafi is not dead.

That was an exact replica created by our alien overlords, and substituted in at the last nanosecond.

The real Gaddafi is being transported to Alpha Centauri, because they can keep him alive and in solitary confinement* a lot longer than we could have.

*He has to listen to tapes of every boy pop singer, every boy band, every heavily-autotuned bad female American pop singer constantly, loud, while eating spam and spaghettio's. Oh, and generic cloying Kool aid.

SHUT UP!
;)

308 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 2:34:58pm

re: #267 darthstar

3,198,271,394

309 mikec6666  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 2:56:11pm

No more money for cowards. No more donations from me to NPR.

310 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 3:07:38pm

My favourite writer says that one of the chief barriers to free speech these days is professionalism. What happened to Ms. Simeone is a glaring example of this.

It's something I've suffered from as well. I've had employers and co-workers try to keep me from exercising my right to free speech, citing 'lack of professionalism' as the motive.

311 ReamWorks SKG  Thu, Oct 20, 2011 4:32:12pm

re: #12 aagcobb

She may have upset the show's target audience, since the 99% wouldn't listen to an opera show if someone paid them to./

My local NPR station doesn't carry World of Opera.

When I first moved to CA, there were two classical stations, and one of them carried the Met "Live from Lincoln Center" as well as other Opera programming.

Now there are zero classical stations, and no opera programming on the radio.

By and large, opera fans are apolitical. They're much likely to get into a fight over Callas v. Tebaldi than taxes.

That being said, I'm no fan of OWS, but I wouldn't care at all if my NPR music show host liked to dance topless at every OWS event shouting "Down with the Establishment! Pay our Student Loans" Or whatever people do at those things


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