Religious Right Irritated by Herman Cain’s Absurd Abortion Statements

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Herman Cain’s ridiculous self-contradictory statements on abortion are beginning to piss off the religious right, who want their candidates to be as rabidly anti-abortion as possible: Herman Cain’s Abortion Comments Roil Iowa Republicans.

WASHINGTON — The first signs of real damage to Herman Cain’s campaign emerged Thursday as his position on abortion — that he is personally anti-abortion but believes it’s “not the government’s role … to make that decision” — began to register with conservative Iowa activists.

That is a pro-choice position,” Bob Vander Plaats, a social conservative leader in Iowa, told The Huffington Post. “It’s not where we’re at on the issue and it’s not where a lot of caucus-goers are at on the life issue. They believe Roe v. Wade should be overturned.”

Cain put out a statement late in the day on Thursday trying to clarify his position, but he still did not address the 1973 Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion, raising questions about whether he believes in the legal right to abortion despite his strenuous rhetoric in the past claiming to be, in his own words, “pro-life.”

Cain said he thought the question he was asked by CNN’s Piers Morgan on Wednesday night was “whether that I, as president, would simply ‘order’ people to not seek an abortion.”

“My answer was focused on the role of the President. The President has no constitutional authority to order any such action by anyone. That was the point I was trying to convey. As to my political policy view on abortion, I am 100% pro-life. End of story. I will appoint judges who understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to the rule of law know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children,” Cain said in his statement. “I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life.”

It’s like a pathetic parody of a waffling politician. Cain is giving Sarah Palin a run for her money in the “word salad” department.

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105 comments
1 erik_t  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:58:55am

It's an amusing but depressing commentary about the state of the modern GOP that the current leader in the polls can be accurately described by talking heads as 'not a serious candidate'.

2 Kronocide  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:01:34am

No no no, let's leave 'word salad' for Palin. She's earned it.

Cain's rants are more like a combo pizza with a thin crust but extra cheese. A 'Cain Combo' if you will.

For $9.99 delivered, of course!

3 mikec6666  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:04:51am

Is it at all possible that he doesn't really feel that the government has a place telling women what to do, and that this little slice of truth somehow escaped the conservative political filter? And that he's personally anti-choice? I think it is possible, and I think he's trying to mollify the people he needs to vote for him in Iowa by pretending otherwise.

I do so love to watch the little tango they all have to perform to get the next round of this clown show.

4 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:05:13am

Proof that the religious right doesn't care about the Constitution. They care about keeping women down.

5 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:05:25am

I'm waiting for the RR to attack the Commandant of the Marine Corps for hating the USMC.

Marine Commandant Gen. James Amos — who strongly opposed the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell last year — told NPR’s Morning Edition yesterday that he is “very proud” of how the Marines have handled the repeal of the policy last month. “I’m very pleased now,” Amos said and explained that his previous statements in support of the ban were expressing the hesitancy for change within the Marine Corps.

Amos also came out in support of gay Marines bringing their same-sex partners to the Marine Corps Ball:

NPR: How comfortable are you with the idea of a gay couple showing up?

AMOS: I’m fine with it. I’m fine with it. I expect it to happen, I expect it to happen across the Marine Corps. And I mean, that’s part of the repeal of Don’t Ask, Dont’ Tell. I mean, that’s part of it. You can’t go half way. You can’t say we’re going to repeal it and you now can become public, but I’m going to restrict your behavior. We’re not going to do business that way.

6 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:06:11am

Hate to do this-OT
Obama: U.S. will pull troops out of Iraq by year-end
(Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Friday said the United States will fulfill its promise by pulling troops out of Iraq by year-end.

"As promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year. After nearly nine years, America's war in Iraq will be over," Obama told reporters.

He spoke after a video conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

7 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:07:07am

The original intent of the constitution was to protect fetuses?

Abortion was legal in most states in 1776. It wasn't until around 1860 that we got the really repressive abortion laws going.

Ignorance of history: An absolute must for a GOP candidate.

8 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:08:17am

re: #3 mikec6666

Is it at all possible that he doesn't really feel that the government has a place telling women what to do, and that this little slice of truth somehow escaped the conservative political filter? And that he's personally anti-choice?

I doubt it - Cain is a Baptist minister. And he has a long history of fanatical opposition to abortion.

9 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:08:42am

Cain's foreign policy: "Others will fill in the details"

CAIN: Foreign policy. When you rise up in the polls, you get this big target on your back. And so I have been criticized for not having extensive foreign policy experience. And the guy there now does? Richard, is this a double-standard or something that’s going on here? I have consulted with foreign policy experts. Let me tell you what they have told me. “Herman, all you need is character and common sense and intelligence and we’ve got plenty of people who can fill out the details and help you with putting together the strategy.” That’s what leaders do!

10 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:09:31am

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm waiting for the RR to attack the Commandant of the Marine Corps for hating the USMC.

That is awesome - exactly what we should expect someone in his position to say, but it still takes courage for him to take that position.

11 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:10:22am

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain's foreign policy: "Others will fill in the details"

It's not so much for me that he doesn't have foreign policy experience- It's that he's ignorant. "Insigificant states" anyone?

12 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:10:30am
Cain is giving Sarah Palin a run for her money in the “word salad” department.

I am pretty sure that he is consciously following her example, especially ever since he got a good chunk of her supporters after she announced she wouldn't run and he was the most hopeful Tea Party candidate around. Cain is a Palin Politician.

13 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:11:40am

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Man, that's just what we need. Another idiot who's happy to let policy be dictated by guys with both feet in the military-industrial trough.

14 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:12:17am

re: #2 BigPapa

No no no, let's leave 'word salad' for Palin. She's earned it.

Cain's rants are more like a combo pizza with a thin crust but extra cheese. A 'Cain Combo' if you will.

For $9.99 delivered, of course!

Word Pizza -- now with pineapple, anchovies, and shredded Constitution!

15 erik_t  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:12:41am

re: #11 HappyWarrior

It's not so much for me that he doesn't have foreign policy experience- It's that he's ignorant. "Insigificant states" anyone?

It's not even that he's ignorant, it's that he proudly professes to not give a shit.

16 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:13:02am

Include me as someone who is confused about where Cain stands on abortion. I actually, much to my dismay, find that I semi-agree with Vander Plaats on this as Cain seems to be waffling between pro-life and a weak quasi pro-choice position, although clearly his statements about cutting/preventing funding for women's health services is far from pro-choice.

I wonder what Cain's game is. Is he trying to balance between appeasing the anti-abortion crowd on the right without scaring away women and pro-choice men? Is he just clueless on this issue and how it plays to much of the GOP base (I have no idea how you could be so ignorant, but I've seen stranger things)? Is he, secretly, at least partially pro-choice and therefore is having trouble throwing his support behind the radical anti-abortion agenda? I mean, I won't vote for him regardless, but I'm curious to know.

17 Kronocide  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:13:26am

re: #14 wrenchwench

Word Pizza -- now with pineapple, anchovies, and shredded Constitution!

Thread Weenar!

18 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:13:32am

re: #15 erik_t

It's not even that he's ignorant, it's that he proudly professes to not give a shit.

Willfully ignorant, yes. "I don't care who the president of Uzbekibeksitan is!"

19 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:13:33am

re: #13 iossarian

Man, that's just what we need. Another idiot who's happy to let policy be dictated by guys with both feet in the military-industrial trough.

But it worked out so well for us 2000-2008.
/

20 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:13:56am

re: #8 Charles

I doubt it - Cain is a Baptist minister. And he has a long history of fanatical opposition to abortion.

Well, that answers my question, then. I suppose I need to research him more. I had sorta assumed until recently that I wouldn't need to bother...

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:14:22am

re: #3 mikec6666

Is it at all possible that he doesn't really feel that the government has a place telling women what to do, and that this little slice of truth somehow escaped the conservative political filter? And that he's personally anti-choice?

If so, he's still saying openly that he would, as President, do everything that it's possible for a President to do to make abortion illegal.

Of course, he's also breaking the rules by acknowledging that the President doesn't get to wave a magic wand and overrule the Court.

22 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:14:47am

re: #18 HappyWarrior

Willfully ignorant, yes. "I don't care who the president of Uzbekibeksitan is!"

"HAHA, your country has a funny name!"

23 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:14:54am

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But it worked out so well for us 2000-2008.
/

*bangs head on desk, gnaws on handy potted plant*

24 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:15:05am

re: #3 mikec6666

Is it at all possible that he doesn't really feel that the government has a place telling women what to do, and that this little slice of truth somehow escaped the conservative political filter? And that he's personally anti-choice? I think it is possible, and I think he's trying to mollify the people he needs to vote for him in Iowa by pretending otherwise.

I do so love to watch the little tango they all have to perform to get the next round of this clown show.

If that's true then he has at least one saving grace. It isn't enough to make me want to vote for the bonehead though. He really, really pissed me off saying its my own fault for not having a job! And at 49 years old I sure as heck am not going to stand and bag groceries for $7.50 and hour when I have over 20 years experience at customer service, sales and data entry under my belt! Do you know the last prospective employer that called only asked me one question? That question was "How old are you? You didn't put your birth date on the resume I have" !!! Translation: I won't hire you if you're too old. He didn't even want to meet me first! And like that's my fault! Gee, thanks Mr. Cain!

25 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:16:05am

re: #16 Simply Sarah

Include me as someone who is confused about where Cain stands on abortion. I actually, much to my dismay, find that I semi-agree with Vander Plaats on this as Cain seems to be waffling between pro-life and a weak quasi pro-choice position, although clearly his statements about cutting/preventing funding for women's health services is far from pro-choice.

I wonder what Cain's game is. Is he trying to balance between appeasing the anti-abortion crowd on the right without scaring away women and pro-choice men? Is he just clueless on this issue and how it plays to much of the GOP base (I have no idea how you could be so ignorant, but I've seen stranger things)? Is he, secretly, at least partially pro-choice and therefore is having trouble throwing his support behind the radical anti-abortion agenda? I mean, I won't vote for him regardless, but I'm curious to know.

He's just saying that he can't order anyone to not have an abortion, but he can make it impossible through court appointments and vetoes.

26 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:17:44am

Yeah to me Cain seems to be saying he can't ban abortion by decree but he will make it hard to impossible for a woman to get one legally and thus safely. That's why I remain pro choice despite my problems with abortion. I am not a huge Bill Clinton fan but: Safe, legal, and rare.

27 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:18:58am

re: #23 iossarian

*bangs head on desk, gnaws on handy potted plant*

See, you still turn to Bush when things go bad.

28 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:19:34am

I think the Cain flub can be explained entirely by politician-itis combined with lack of preparation.

He wasn't prepared for the question, so instead of giving a straight answer, he punted (as politicians do). Then, once he'd been briefed on the percentage plays, he "clarified".

This tells us that he isn't very well prepared (which, gosh, he's only running for president, let's not be too hard on him) and that he's yet another pol who will say anything to get elected.

It tells us nothing about his personal beliefs on abortion.

29 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:20:16am

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm waiting for the RR to attack the Commandant of the Marine Corps for hating the USMC.

Anything else and I would have been disappointed. The USMC is a proud branch of the military and hold being professional to a high importance. General Amos is taking his role and position seriously and, regardless of his personal feelings on this, is going to make sure the Marine Corps implement the repeal to the best of their ability, since that's what Marines do.

30 darthstar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:23:34am

The right wing was just looking for an excuse to dump the black guy - whom they still like better than Romney - and this was it.

31 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:23:55am

re: #25 wrenchwench

He's just saying that he can't order anyone to not have an abortion, but he can make it impossible through court appointments and vetoes.

Yeah, I'm reading this more closely now. I misread it a bit the first time and didn't realize exactly what he was saying, which is more than a bit embarrassing (And depressing and disappointing and...). So yeah, he's just a clusterfuck of positions that seem to be anti-abortion without taking credit for being anti-abortion, at least in the current climate. Like SFZ said, he's basically saying he'd do what he could to ban it within the law.

32 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:24:01am

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm waiting for the RR to attack the Commandant of the Marine Corps for hating the USMC.

Excellent. My opinion of Amos just did a 180.

33 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:25:22am

re: #26 HappyWarrior

Yeah to me Cain seems to be saying he can't ban abortion by decree but he will make it hard to impossible for a woman to get one legally and thus safely. That's why I remain pro choice despite my problems with abortion. I am not a huge Bill Clinton fan but: Safe, legal, and rare.

I'll upding this, even if I'm not in 100% agreement on things, even only because it's a position I can work with.

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:25:33am

re: #24 Dragon_Lady

If that's true then he has at least one saving grace. It isn't enough to make me want to vote for the bonehead though. He really, really pissed me off saying its my own fault for not having a job! And at 49 years old I sure as heck am not going to stand and bag groceries for $7.50 and hour when I have over 20 years experience at customer service, sales and data entry under my belt! Do you know the last prospective employer that called only asked me one question? That question was "How old are you? You didn't put your birth date on the resume I have" !!! Translation: I won't hire you if you're too old. He didn't even want to meet me first! And like that's my fault! Gee, thanks Mr. Cain!

Your problem, lady, is that you think you've got some kind of dignity as a person with a history of work experience and gainful employement. In Cain's world, dignity is only something you got when you got money. If you don't have money, you take whatever you can get, and if you can't get anything, it's your fault.

35 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:29:02am

(I think I was just a bit too eager to see at least one of the main GOP candidates display what comes even remotely close to not being rabid anti-abortion. I should know better by now that's not going to happen.)

36 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:29:39am

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Your problem, lady, is that you think you've got some kind of dignity as a person with a history of work experience and gainful employement. In Cain's world, dignity is only something you got when you got money. If you don't have money, you take whatever you can get, and if you can't get anything, it's your fault.

Waaaa! I's can't have de dignity? //

How're ya doin this mornin, SFZ?

37 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:30:34am

This is funny. Almost on topic too.

@daveweigel daveweigel
DEVELOPING: Philip Glass to launch 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 plan. bit.ly/fKD39x

38 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:31:11am

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Your problem, lady, is that you think you've got some kind of dignity as a person with a history of work experience and gainful employement. In Cain's world, dignity is only something you got when you got money. If you don't have money, you take whatever you can get, and if you can't get anything, it's your fault.

That's not just "Cain's world", though. It's the fundamental point of capitalism: your social status is determined by the capital you control.

What people have forgotten in the past 30 years is that capitalism is a brutal system if you don't soften the edges with a bit of socialism. Out of work and broke at 49? Who cares! The guys on the 49th floor are still making a killing.

39 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:32:17am

re: #33 Simply Sarah

I'll upding this, even if I'm not in 100% agreement on things, even only because it's a position I can work with.

Well when I say "rare" I want to limit the conditions that lead to choosing to get an abortion in the first place. Of course supporting programs that take on poverty would get be labeled a big scary Marxist by Herman and Vander Plaatz. One thing I will never do is judge a woman who chooses to get an abortion. That would be an assholish thing to do especially as a man but even if I were a woman, I wouldn't because you can't judge someone when you've never been in their shoes.

40 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:32:47am

re: #28 iossarian

This tells us that he isn't very well prepared (which, gosh, he's only running for president, let's not be too hard on him) and that he's yet another pol who will say anything to get elected.

It tells us nothing about his personal beliefs on abortion.

Indeed it's a sign of unpreparedness considering that abortion is a hot-button issue for any GOP candidate for President, even though it's a back button issue for most Americans who think that the economy is the top issue.

But it does suggest a bit of insight - and hypocrisy from the GOP candidates on the abortion issue. Far from being a cut and dry anti-abortion position, they're taking that position because they think that's what their constituency (the GOP who vote in the early primaries) wants. It's not a core belief to them. They'll say and do anything to get elected, but once in office, they may not move to make the changes they're calling for.

When the core constituency confronts them, they end up clarifying to appease the socon right wing, and in Cain's case, he made a bigger mess than his initial statement.

41 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:32:56am

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Your problem, lady, is that you think you've got some kind of dignity as a person with a history of work experience and gainful employement. In Cain's world, dignity is only something you got when you got money. If you don't have money, you take whatever you can get, and if you can't get anything, it's your fault.

Speaking of which...

Herman Cain's plan for the poor: Give up your rights and move to a ghetto

42 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:34:10am

re: #40 lawhawk

They'll say and do anything to get elected, but once in office, they may not move to make the changes they're calling for.

Wishful thinking.

43 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:34:18am

re: #38 iossarian

That's not just "Cain's world", though. It's the fundamental point of capitalism: your social status is determined by the capital you control.

What people have forgotten in the past 30 years is that capitalism is a brutal system if you don't soften the edges with a bit of socialism. Out of work and broke at 49? Who cares! The guys on the 49th floor are still making a killing.

Who say's I'm broke? I have a wonderful Hubby, I have my family and I have a roof over my head and food in my fridge, and a retirement IRA. I'm filthy rich! I just don't have a huge amount of money! ;-)

44 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:34:20am

I hate to post a Fox News link here, but if this spokeswoman they interviewed for OWS really does represent OWS, then it is a troubling situation. (And the OWS spokeswoman can use some training on dealing with the press. Snapping "You have to let me finish" at them isn't a good idea.)

They aren't officially distancing themselves from people like Patricia McCallister, though certainly there are participants of OWS who speak out against this sort of hate, there's not been an official statement. They can easily make one of their core platform statements against hate directed towards religious or ethnic groups. They don't.

Ads like this

are discounted as right-wing attempts to discredit them. (For example: [Link: thinkprogress.org...] ).

I'm sympathetic to people who are having a hard time in this economy. But Jews are always on guard whenever large hoards of people start yelling that "Bankers" are running the country, even if Jews aren't mentioned. Because we all know what follows.

I called Pelosi's office and asked "I'd like to know if Nancy Pelosi supports Occupy Wall Street". Before I could say another word, I was transferred to a recorded messages about the "Emergency Committee for Israel" ad. That's how little respect she has for me. Her office assumes, based on hearing half a dozen words from me, that they know which recorded message to direct me to.

45 erik_t  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:35:20am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of which...

Herman Cain's plan for the poor: Give up your rights and move to a ghetto

'Opportunity zone' really is the most delicious sort of misnomer, isn't it? I can't even say or type it without shuddering.

46 Kronocide  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:35:38am

I propose the Golden Tax Plan, based on the Golden Ratio.

47 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:36:01am

re: #39 HappyWarrior

Well when I say "rare" I want to limit the conditions that lead to choosing to get an abortion in the first place. Of course supporting programs that take on poverty would get be labeled a big scary Marxist by Herman and Vander Plaatz. One thing I will never do is judge a woman who chooses to get an abortion. That would be an assholish thing to do especially as a man but even if I were a woman, I wouldn't because you can't judge someone when you've never been in their shoes.

Heh, understood. It's just that I've seen "Safe, legal, and rare" twisted into some pretty anti-choice language and positions.

48 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:36:10am

Argh.

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:37:20am

re: #36 Dragon_Lady

Waaa! I's can't have de dignity? //

How're ya doin this mornin, SFZ?

Annoyed as hell--my landlord showed up with a plumber at eight-thirty, to explain that since they're totally rehauling the apartment next door, trashed by outgoing tenants, they need access to my kitchen to deal with a plumbing problem.

This means that I haven't had access to my kitchen for two hours, aside from making a quick cup of coffee when the workers went to Home Depot to get a part.

And the apartment was not exactly company ready.

Embarassment, and inconvenience--just what the doctor ordered.

50 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:38:48am

re: #47 Simply Sarah

Heh, understood. It's just that I've seen "Safe, legal, and rare" twisted into some pretty anti-choice language and positions.

Good deal. Just wanted to make it clear I don't agree with Cain on abortion. He's a jerk.

51 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:39:15am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, his solution is to strip union rights in "empowerment zones" that have high unemployment rates and eliminate minimum wage restrictions?

Is there any locality anywhere in the world where something like this has been enacted, let alone proposed?

Across the country, states have enterprise zones, where they offer incentives for businesses to operate, sales tax reductions, or access to specific credits.

This? Madness. And more complications to that 9/9/9 plan (though he probably doesn't realize it).

52 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:40:44am

re: #44 reuven

Here. Consider that a gift.

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:40:46am

re: #51 lawhawk

So, his solution is to strip union rights in "empowerment zones" that have high unemployment rates and eliminate minimum wage restrictions?

Is there any locality anywhere in the world where something like this has been enacted, let alone proposed?

Well, yes, many nations of the Third World are 'opportunity zones' from border to border--and I wouldn't say it's worked very well there.

54 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:41:18am

re: #51 lawhawk

So, his solution is to strip union rights in "empowerment zones" that have high unemployment rates and eliminate minimum wage restrictions?

Is there any locality anywhere in the world where something like this has been enacted, let alone proposed?

Stalingrad or Leningrad in the 20s and 30s perhaps.

55 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:41:57am

re: #44 reuven

If it makes you feel any better, I don't feel that the Democratic party particularly respects me, either. But then, that's the crazy corporate-financed political world we live in!

56 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:42:04am

re: #49 SanFranciscoZionist

Annoyed as hell--my landlord showed up with a plumber at eight-thirty, to explain that since they're totally rehauling the apartment next door, trashed by outgoing tenants, they need access to my kitchen to deal with a plumbing problem.

This means that I haven't had access to my kitchen for two hours, aside from making a quick cup of coffee when the workers went to Home Depot to get a part.

And the apartment was not exactly company ready.

Embarassment, and inconvenience--just what the doctor ordered.

That just sucks wide! My apt mgr usually calls first to see if they can come in then, lets me know when I can get back to a normal life. But no coffee in the morning? She'd be lucky I didn't bite her head off that early in the morning! Grrr!

57 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:42:15am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, that's what I thought - none worked out well for those residents.

58 blueraven  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:43:06am

Cain is now proposing his 9-0-9 plan for "po" folks. Also tweaked the plan to create certain "opportunity zones" (low-income, high-unemployment areas like Detroit) as well. But for a city to qualify for this, minimum wage and unions would be need to be eliminated.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Oh joy!
/

59 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:43:15am

re: #51 lawhawk

So, his solution is to strip union rights in "empowerment zones" that have high unemployment rates and eliminate minimum wage restrictions?

Is there any locality anywhere in the world where something like this has been enacted, let alone proposed?

Across the country, states have enterprise zones, where they offer incentives for businesses to operate, sales tax reductions, or access to specific credits.

This? Madness. And more complications to that 9/9/9 plan (though he probably doesn't realize it).

I'm loath to call 999 a plan, since the only planning that has gone into it is how it can benefit him politically.

60 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:43:54am

re: #57 lawhawk

Yeah, that's what I thought - none worked out well for those residents.

Who cares about them? Its the 1% who really drive the economy, and the rest of us need to sacrifice to keep them productive.

61 erik_t  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:45:37am

re: #59 Simply Sarah

I'm loath to call 999 a plan, since the only planning that has gone into it is how it can benefit him politically.

Since 9-9-9's great merit is its repetition of a digit, wouldn't adding, say, a 9% estate tax make it even better? Throw in a 9% corporate income tax as well?

9-9-9-9-9 cannot fail, it can only be failed.

62 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:46:07am

re: #59 Simply Sarah

I'm loath to call 999 a plan, since the only planning that has gone into it is how it can benefit him politically.

I think of it as the "NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!" plan

63 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:46:36am

9-9-9 is a cheap gimmick that even Cain has said he doubts it will pass but man when he's at the debates or stump, you'd think it was the greatest idea ever but it's not. 9% national sales tax? Yeah Herman that's great for the consumer economy we live in.

64 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:46:54am

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain's foreign policy: "Others will fill in the details"

What else can he say, really? He hasn't got any foreign policy experience and he knows it. At least he's honest in saying he'd need someone else to take care of that for him. But I think that's part of why I'd like Cain to end up as Romney's VP or SecTres.

65 erik_t  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:47:12am

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

What else can he say, really? He hasn't got any foreign policy experience and he knows it. At least he's honest in saying he'd need someone else to take care of that for him. But I think that's part of why I'd like Cain to end up as Romney's VP or SecTres.

You're still missing your sarcasm tags.

66 Decatur Deb  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:48:09am

re: #58 blueraven

Cain is now proposing his 9-0-9 plan for "po" folks. Also tweaked the plan to create certain "opportunity zones" (low-income, high-unemployment areas like Detroit) as well. But for a city to qualify for this, minimum wage and unions would be need to be eliminated.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Oh joy!
/

So why doesn't he just call them 'plantations'? Oh,,,right,,he's already repurposed that term.

67 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:48:20am

re: #61 erik_t

Since 9-9-9's great merit is its repetition of a digit, wouldn't adding, say, a 9% estate tax make it even better? Throw in a 9% corporate income tax as well?

9-9-9-9-9 cannot fail, it can only be failed.

Cain's plan already has a 9% corporate tax. They pay the same income tax as individuals under his plan.

68 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:48:49am

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

What else can he say, really? He hasn't got any foreign policy experience and he knows it. At least he's honest in saying he'd need someone else to take care of that for him. But I think that's part of why I'd like Cain to end up as Romney's VP or SecTres.

I wouldn't want Cain for dog catcher.

69 erik_t  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:49:42am

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

Cain's plan already has a 9% corporate tax. They pay the same income tax as individuals under his plan.

Sure, except for the part where they can apparently deduct the costs of goods sold. Then it's exactly like an individual income tax.

70 darthstar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:49:45am
71 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:50:27am

re: #58 blueraven

Cain is now proposing his 9-0-9 plan for "po" folks.

I think the 9-9-9 plan is idiotic, but I'm not necessarily opposed to a vastly simplified income tax plan that eliminates all deductions.

But once you start making exceptions or allowing deductions, then you've started down a slippery slope. How do you think our tax plan became so complicated?

If we had a flat tax and decided as a Nation that we needed to provide incentives or rewards, then they need to be done via payments and not exceptions or deductions.

72 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:50:36am

re: #2 BigPapa

No no no, let's leave 'word salad' for Palin. She's earned it.

Cain's rants are more like a combo pizza with a thin crust but extra cheese. A 'Cain Combo' if you will.

For $9.99 delivered, of course!

I thought it was a 9" pie, delivered in 9 minutes, for $9...

The toppings vary depending on which demographic group(s) you belong to.

73 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:50:45am

re: #70 darthstar

Yes, yes, yes, yes
yes, yes, yes...

Crabbing?

74 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:50:45am

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

Cain's plan already has a 9% corporate tax. They pay the same income tax as individuals under his plan.

Ouch! And just how many employees would be laid off if that went into effect!?! We'd be into triple digit unemployment numbers! *shudder*

75 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:51:32am

re: #72 oaktree

I thought it was a 9" pie, delivered in 9 minutes, for $9...

The toppings vary depending on which demographic group(s) you belong to.

9 topping in 9 minutes for $9.99.

76 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:51:43am

The only time I want to see any of the current GOP candidates in the White House is when they're accompanied by a tour guide.

77 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:51:43am

re: #70 darthstar

Yes, yes, yes, yes
yes, yes, yes...

Shrimp traps?

78 Simply Sarah  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:51:47am

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

Cain's plan already has a 9% corporate tax. They pay the same income tax as individuals under his plan.

Isn't the whole idea behind his Super Duper Discovery Zones that they'd have no corporate income tax or business taxes? With taxes only on earned income and sales? You know, for the people that won't have unions or a minimum wage to pay.

Seriously, 9!9!9! was a bad plan in its most basic form and as it has been 'fleshed out', it just keeps getting worse and worse. Like, it might as well be called the "Create a Socialist Revolution Within Two Generations" plan.

79 blueraven  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:52:46am

re: #44 reuven

Well, not trying to be obtuse. But since you posted the Emergency Committee for Israel ad video, isn't it true that the ad was a concern for you?

It concerns me as well, but probably for different reasons. The ad makes it look as though Obama and Pelosi are supporting antisemitism, rather than the general idea of peoples right to speak out against the financial situation we find ourselves in. Also the two examples used in the ad are nutcases that have been scorned by others at OWS.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:53:05am

re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think of it as the "NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!" plan

[Video]

Yeah, it does tend to sound as though you're a German kindergarten teacher running out of patience when you say it aloud.

81 kirkspencer  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:53:18am

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

Cain's plan already has a 9% corporate tax. They pay the same income tax as individuals under his plan.

Actually, not quite. It is "Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports." (source) Labor costs are not excluded. That has interesting ramifications to payroll.

82 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:54:09am

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thank you, General, for living up to the uniform you wear.

83 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:54:35am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, it does tend to sound as though you're a German kindergarten teacher running out of patience when you say it aloud.

Ja, Ja, Ja, it does(I literally just did it, I hope my roommates don't think I am some crazy German).

84 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:54:51am

re: #79 blueraven

The use of Obama in that ad was wrong. He didn't say he supported them. He simply said he understood their frustration.

Pelosi, on the other hand, has stuck her neck out to support them. But because the group has no firm platform or mission statement, it is foolish to do so, and it's fair to criticize her.

85 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:55:34am

re: #81 kirkspencer

Actually, not quite. It is "Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports." (source) Labor costs are not excluded. That has interesting ramifications to payroll.

Thank you for that. I do see how that would create an incentive to automate, since capital investment is an exclusion.

86 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:56:17am

re: #70 darthstar

Yes, yes, yes, yes
yes, yes, yes...

I would approve of them more when they are full of tasty crabs.

87 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:58:23am

re: #70 darthstar

Yes, yes, yes, yes
yes, yes, yes...

I haven't seen that many traps in one place since comiccon...

88 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:58:36am

Anybody stupid enough to vote for a ticket like that deserves exactly thethe incompetent "leadership" the gop is crammig down their throats. Same for Perry or Bachmann or the rest of the clown car brigades masquerading as people who can actually run a superpower.

Obama in a landslide...

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

What else can he say, really? He hasn't got any foreign policy experience and he knows it. At least he's honest in saying he'd need someone else to take care of that for him. But I think that's part of why I'd like Cain to end up as Romney's VP or SecTres.

89 blueraven  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:59:09am

re: #84 reuven

The use of Obama in that ad was wrong. He didn't say he supported them. He simply said he understood their frustration.

Pelosi, on the other hand, has stuck her neck out to support them. But because the group has no firm platform or mission statement, it is foolish to do so, and it's fair to criticize her.

The ad was misleading. It made it appear that this behavior is representative of OWS. It is not.
Based on two nutjobs. About what one would expect from Bill Kristol.

90 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:02:44am

Jon Stewart To GOP: WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

"Is there no Republican that can be gracious and statesmanlike in this situation?" Stewart asked. "We removed a dictator in six months, losing no American soldiers, spending like a billion dollars instead of a trillion dollars."

"What the fuck is wrong with you people?" Stewart added.

91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:03:06am

I still think it's hilarious what the GOP is shoveling down their constituent's throats as something to vote for.

Great for comedy, bu horrible for the country, that they would insult every voter's intelligence with this bullshit.

re: #68 Gus 802

I wouldn't want Cain for dog catcher.

92 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:04:27am

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jon Stewart To GOP: WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

Saw that earlier, I said it before and I'll say it again. I wish my parents would watch Jon Stewart, maybe they'd wake up out of their Fox News induced stupor.

93 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:05:57am

re: #91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I still think it's hilarious what the GOP is shoveling down their constituent's throats as something to vote for.

Great for comedy, bu horrible for the country, that they would insult every voter's intelligence with this bullshit.

Can you imagine what the right would say if a Democratic candidate said he wasn't that big on foreign policy? "Oh, I don't know, I'll let my cabinet decide. You know, the ACORN guys."

Fucking nuts. The fact that people still think they can make a case other than DEMOCRAT PARTY for voting Republican is bizarre.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:06:35am

Sadly, it's from CUFI, but I thought this was rather interesting.

Random, but interesting.

95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:07:00am

Their rank stupidity is peter principl'ing the entire country.

This is what happens when one party in a two-party system is completely out of ideas.

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jon Stewart To GOP: WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

96 Donna Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:07:16am

I'm gonna go work on my drawing for a while, later Lizards! Keep Laughing!

97 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:08:33am

re: #88 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm too ill to listen to your insults today.

GAZE

98 darthstar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:09:32am

re: #77 Dragon_Lady

Shrimp traps?

Crab pots...Half Moon Bay, CA - it's like this every October-January while the fishermen prep and deploy their traps.

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:09:39am

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

Sadly, it's from CUFI, but I thought this was rather interesting.

Random, but interesting.

Because it's CUFI, the comments on Facebook range from stupid to awful.

100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:10:18am

Evidently, that's all it takes, for a constituency ofpacked withavlov's dogs.

It would be nice to have a real race instead of a farce, though.

re: #93 iossarian

Can you imagine what the right would say if a Democratic candidate said he wasn't that big on foreign policy? "Oh, I don't know, I'll let my cabinet decide. You know, the ACORN guys."

Fucking nuts. The fact that people still think they can make a case other than DEMOCRAT PARTY for voting Republican is bizarre.

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:11:09am

re: #98 darthstar

Crab pots...Half Moon Bay, CA - it's like this every October-January while the fishermen prep and deploy their traps.

Crab is a big deal in the local Italian community, for Christmas food. And all of the Catholic parishes in the Bay Area host crab feeds as their January fundraiser

102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:12:56am

Haha, autocorrect fail. That one's for the archives.

Should read:

re: #100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Evidently, that's all it takes, for a constituency packed with pavlov's dogs

103 iossarian  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:13:28am

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a neat story, regardless of the source.

One of the things I wish I knew more about in the I/P context is what proportion of people on both sides is actually sane and open to compromise. I find that most reporting doesn't really give a sense for that.

I sort of suspect that although it's probably a majority, it may not be an overwhelming one, whereas in the Northern Ireland situation, I always had the impression that the vast majority of people were keen on a peaceful solution.

104 mikec6666  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:29:14am

re: #8 Charles

Well, that blows my theory all to hell. Cest la vie :)

105 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 11:30:47am

Beg pardon but your party insults the intelligence of the collective planet with candidates like Perry, Bachmann, Cain, Santorum, Newt and the rest of the fascists. Express suport for them, expect pushback.

Go play GAZE with somebdy else, I'm not into that stupid game.

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I'm too ill to listen to your insults today.

GAZE


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