Tech Note: The Opera Conundrum

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Here’s a tech note that will, as all tech notes do, almost immediately turn into a Friday night open thread.

I’ve gotten several complaints about the LGF front page crashing in the Opera browser, or taking forever to load if it doesn’t crash.

I traced the problem to a recent change in the way I was loading Javascript files; I was experimenting with combining all the Javascript into one big, big file, because requesting one file over the Internet is a whole lot faster than requesting multiple files. This technique worked well in Safari, Chrome, Internet Explorer 9, and Firefox, but Opera went into uncontrollable seizures, leaking memory all over the place and eventually locking up. In Linux (Ubuntu) it even took down the whole OS. Impressive. I suspect some kind of internal buffer overflow problem in Opera, but who knows?

So I abandoned the “one big file” approach, and broke the Javascript out into separate files again, and now Opera seems to be much happier with LGF. You don’t want to get the fat lady mad at you.

If you’re still having trouble in Opera, please let me know by posting a comment or using our Contact form (in the left sidebar). I’ve tested both Mac and PC versions here at LGF HQ and they pass with flying colors.

(At the risk of angering the fat lady, I cheated a little, and I’m still combining as many of the Javascript files as possible. If you look at the source of LGF, you’ll only see three Javascript files being explicitly loaded. And I also changed the way I’m loading the external AddThis and Google +1 Javascript files; they’re both fully asynchronous now, and they’re loaded in our jQuery $(document).ready() function, which speeds things up significantly.)

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179 comments
1 freetoken  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:38:51pm

BIG JAVASCRIPT IZ OPPRESSING US!!

2 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:39:20pm

So do people prefer the Republic of Chicken or the Chicken Republic?

(how awesome are those restaurant names?)

3 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:40:59pm

re: #1 freetoken

BIG JAVASCRIPT IZ OPPRESSING US!!

This calls for a drum circle!

4 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:42:55pm

Thanks Charles. I'll have to reinstall Opera to test this out. I've since gone over to the beta Firefox Aurora which seems to be working pretty good. The Opera memory leak was sending me into kanipshin fit territory.

Although I did notice something just before. I was lurking without being signed in and noticed that it wasn't updating the comments even while new comments were being made. This is with Aurora and on the previous page.

5 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:43:18pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

This calls for a drum circle!

This calls for a drum circle!

6 Four More Tears  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:43:29pm

Someone still uses Opera?

/

7 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:44:36pm

re: #6 JasonA

Someone still uses Opera?

/

Someone still uses Opera?

8 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:44:45pm

re: #4 Gus 802

Thanks Charles. I'll have to reinstall Opera to test this out. I've since gone over to the beta Firefox Aurora which seems to be working pretty good. The Opera memory leak was sending me into kanipshin fit territory.

Although I did notice something just before. I was lurking without being signed in and noticed that it wasn't updating the comments even while new comments were being made. This is with Aurora and on the previous page.

Yes, that's how it's intended to work, to keep bandwidth demands down. The automatic updating features only work if you're logged in.

9 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:46:00pm

re: #8 Charles

Yes, that's how it's intended to work, to keep bandwidth demands down. The automatic updating features only work if you're logged in.

Oh. I meant manually updating it. While lurking. I hit update comments and the wagon wheel turned really fast for a second and no updated comments.

10 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:47:59pm

And while I'm tech noting out, you now have to click the AddThis "share" button (with the orange + sign) to make the menu of social networks pop up, instead of just hovering over it.

That hovering behavior was annoying me.

11 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:48:11pm

It's in the beta stage so that might be what's causing minor glitches like that.

More information on Aurora here.

12 freetoken  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:50:55pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

13 freetoken  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:51:24pm

That's as close to a drum circle as I get.

14 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:51:39pm

re: #5 McSpiff

This calls for a drum circle!

Tish called a frum circus?

15 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:54:02pm

re: #13 freetoken

That's as close to a drum circle as I get.

16 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:55:01pm

re: #13 freetoken

That's as close to a drum circle as I get.

Male Inequality
Samantha Bee joins a support group of disenfranchised males gathering in the woods to reclaim their manhood.

17 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:56:33pm

re: #5 McSpiff

This calls for a drum circle!

#wigglesfingers

18 freetoken  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 6:59:15pm

re: #16 Gus 802

Well, I do recall once in Japan, while walking around a large park, of coming across two young women doing their own drum circle practice - playing with African sounding rhythms - so I sat and listened to them. Alas, I cannot claim to have reclaimed any manhood at that happening.

19 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:01:54pm

How To Feed the Homeless

20 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:08:32pm

I know that I tend to defend DoD very strongly, but they do have their problems that can't be defended. Here's an example:

Stuff Like This Makes It Hard To Justify The Defense Budget

Yesterday, I was surprised that the Army PAO released yet another story on their Tyr Tactical MICO knockoff now dubbed the “Ironmanan” by the Army after a rebranding effort to sex it up. But, this time they make it sound like the Iowa Army National Guard developed the product instead of Natick. It was somehow missed by the main stream media last time but this time it hit big. Let’s spread the word and let everyone know that the Army spent money building something that already existed.

Is there some fat that needs to be cut in the defense budget? Definitely. After reading this story, I’d say we can come up with a few nominees. So let’s do that. In the comments section, tell us about Fraud Waste & Abuse. This story was originally broken by Military.Com’s KitUp! in July.

Source: SSD 7 July 2011

The Army developed he “new” High-Capacity Ammunition Carriage System in 45 days for use by troops in Operation Enduring Freedom. As soon as I saw it I raised an eyebrow. Unfortunately, it already existed in the form of the MICO from Tyr Tactical. The MICO was developed on Tyr’s own dime and debuted about a year ago. If time was of the essence, it sounds like the Army wasted 45 days to redevelop a commercial product that already existed.

(Italics in original)

Even if you don't like defense contractors, they shouldn't get screwed over like this.

21 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:25:20pm

This thing on?

22 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:29:19pm

re: #21 Gus 802

This thing on?

Yeah. But it looks like my gun post cut loose of full-auto and killed the thread.

23 Stanghazi  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:31:08pm

I'm here! So far I'm bored.

24 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:36:59pm

re: #23 Stanley Sea

I'm here! So far I'm bored.

Let me liven things up a bit:

25 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:42:27pm

re: #23 Stanley Sea

I'm here! So far I'm bored.

Don't mind me none. I'm getting some stuff ready for a game tomorrow.

26 Stanghazi  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:43:41pm

I'm going to a surprise party tomorrow. Be there at 230, hide your car etc.etc. Hopefully it will be fun.

27 jvic  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:45:32pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

Even if you don't like defense contractors, they shouldn't get screwed over like this.

After my work at defense contractors, my view of them is not sentimental. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the following characterization of their perspective. Read in order: this, this, and this.

28 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:45:55pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

Let me liven things up a bit:

[Video]

Wow. That was, uh, unexpected, especially from DF.

29 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:47:21pm

re: #28 Atlas Fails

Wow. That was, uh, unexpected, especially from DF.

If the expected isn't working, go with the unexpected.

30 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:49:01pm

re: #26 Stanley Sea

Not much of a surprise then, is it?

31 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:49:24pm

re: #29 Dark_Falcon

If the expected isn't working, go with the unexpected.

Katy Perry music is a guilty pleasure of mine. I know all the words to Teenage Dream, California Gurls, and Firework. *hangs head in shame*

32 Stanghazi  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:51:52pm

re: #30 windsagio

To him hopefully! Unless I'm late and blow it!

33 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:52:42pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't mind me none. I'm getting some stuff ready for a game tomorrow.

Mine is on November 5th. It involves the Society, a Battletech universe cabal of treacherous Clan scientists, so what better day for it than Guy Fawkes Day? And what better day for a battle than a day known as the Fatal Fifth?

34 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:52:49pm

re: #31 Atlas Fails

Why are you doing this to me

there, now all is right with the world again

35 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:53:22pm

also

dedicated to America, of course

36 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:54:57pm

re: #35 WindUpBird

dedicated to America, of course

Sadface.

37 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:55:07pm
38 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:55:54pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Mine is on November 5th. It involves the Society, a Battletech universe cabal of treacherous Clan scientists, so what better day for it than Guy Fawkes Day? And what better day for a battle than a day known as the Fatal Fifth?

Next Saturday for me. 2000 pt tournament, 3 rounds. Leaning towards Space Wolves, but might run straight Codex Marines instead. Running a shakedown game of my wolves tomorrow to see how they feel before making my final choice.

39 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:56:56pm

re: #36 Atlas Fails

Sadface.

When we no longer have the ability to dominate the world and fetishize our military escapdes, we might actually turn our attentions towards our citizens

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:57:34pm

Bring back the USSR, we need some motivation

41 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:58:54pm

NPR has now totally caved in and canceled Lisa Simeone's "World of Opera," in response to a right wing media smear: NPR dumps opera show after host organizes DC protest; NC member station to distribute.

WASHINGTON — NPR will no longer distribute the member station-produced program “World of Opera” to about 60 stations across the country because the show host helped organize an ongoing Washington protest, a network official said Friday evening.

Instead, North Carolina-based classical music station WDAV, which produces the show, said it will distribute the nationally syndicated program on its own beginning Nov. 11. The station said it plans to keep Lisa Simeone as host and has said her involvement in a political protest does not affect her job as a music program host.

42 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:58:55pm

re: #39 WindUpBird

When we no longer have the ability to dominate the world and fetishize our military escapdes, we might actually turn our attentions towards our citizens

You're sounding like...Ron Paul.

/ducks

43 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 7:59:39pm

re: #34 WindUpBird

Why are you doing this to me

[Video]there, now all is right with the world again

Let me try to strike a balance:

44 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:00:45pm

re: #41 Charles

Ethics are so cumbersome.

45 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:01:11pm

re: #41 Charles

NPR has now totally caved in and canceled Lisa Simeone's "World of Opera," in response to a right wing media smear: NPR dumps opera show after host organizes DC protest; NC member station to distribute.

If she helped organize the protest, how is it a smear?

46 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:01:18pm

Anyone here into old side by side shotguns? Saw a pretty, older (1904 I believe) Parker VH grade 12 gauge for auction. It's got rough unfinished new wood on it but the metal looks good and tight. A really great buy for someone who can finish the restock themselves - I'm guessing it'll go for only $850 to maybe $1000 because of the wood. It's a bummer being broke. Ah, well someday...

47 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:01:48pm

re: #42 Atlas Fails

You're sounding like...Ron Paul.

/ducks

Yeah, that's me, except for the part about wanting social programs, massive taxes on the rich and on capital gains and universal single payer health care and not being a crypto-klansman :D

48 allegro  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:02:23pm

re: #41 Charles

NPR has now totally caved in and canceled Lisa Simeone's "World of Opera," in response to a right wing media smear: NPR dumps opera show after host organizes DC protest; NC member station to distribute.

Oh just *snarl*. That is a great program some of which were hosted by the fantastic Houston Grand Opera. Way to harsh my mellow something fierce.

49 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:02:57pm

re: #47 WindUpBird

Yeah, that's me, except for the part about wanting social programs, massive taxes on the rich and on capital gains and universal single payer health care and not being a crypto-klansman :D

I'd totally vote for (DOCTOR!!!) Paul if it wasn't for all that stuff./

50 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:03:47pm

re: #49 Atlas Fails

I'd totally vote for (DOCTOR!!!) Paul if it wasn't for all that stuff./

whenever people refer to Ron Paul as Doctor Paul, I think of Dr. Dre

51 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:04:08pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

If she helped organize the protest, how is it a smear?

She hosts an opera show.

You're not seriously going to argue that her political activities affect her ability to properly cover the world of opera, are you?

Maybe so -- you were arguing in favor of letting teachers be fired earlier, because they're indoctrinating kids to be Democrats.

52 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:04:46pm

Lisa Simeone: Why I Will Be There


If she had her way Saddam Hussien , Q'daffy, and Bin Laden would still be alive and we wouldn't be fighting the Lord's Resistance Army.
/Win!
53 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:05:02pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Ethics are so cumbersome.

Uh. The show wasn't a political show. It wasn't a news show. Why don't they fire Garrison Keillor?

54 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:05:20pm
"The President kept his pledge to the nation to end the war in Iraq in a responsible way, he has promoted our security in Afghanistan and eliminated key Al Qaeda leaders while strengthening American leadership around the world. Mitt Romney didn't lay out a plan to end the war in Iraq in his foreign policy agenda - he barely even mentioned Iraq - but he is apparently willing to leave American troops there without identifying a new mission. Mitt Romney's foreign policy experience is limited to his work as a finance executive shipping American jobs overseas."
-Press Secretary Ben LaBolt, Obama 2012

Hellacious burn courtesy of Team FuckYeah!

55 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:05:30pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Ethics are so cumbersome.

Where's the ethics conflict here?

56 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:05:40pm

re: #49 Atlas Fails

I'd totally vote for (DOCTOR!!!) Paul if it wasn't for all that stuff./

Sarc aside, I'd vote for Obama before I'd vote for Ron Paul. Because when its all said and done, Ron Paul has worse judgement than Barack Obama. The way he simply accepts the John Birch Society, without any understanding of how crazy he looks doing it, marks him as someone unfit to leads.

57 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:05:54pm

re: #53 Gus 802

Uh. The show wasn't a political show. It wasn't a news show. Why don't they fire Garrison Keillor?

Because he's not a spokesman for political rallies.

58 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:05:57pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

Lisa Simeone: Why I Will Be There

[Video]
If she had her way Saddam Hussien , Q'daffy, and Bin Laden would still be alive and we wouldn't be fighting the Lord's Resistance Army.
/Win!

Seriously? Yeah, freedom of speech really upsets Neocons.

59 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:06:26pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

If she helped organize the protest, how is it a smear?

DF, her show has nothing to do with her politics.

But even still, we do have this thing called freedom of assembly. I know it's not thought highly of these days (see the suppression of unions) but it is still in the 1st Amendment.

60 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:06:38pm

re: #55 Charles

Where's the ethics conflict here?

You could google the NPR code of ethics and read it for yourself.

61 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:07:35pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

You could google the NPR code of ethics and read it for yourself.

I already did. It doesn't apply to this situation.

62 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:07:44pm

re: #50 WindUpBird

whenever people refer to Ron Paul as Doctor Paul, I think of Dr. Dre

"Bitches ain't shit" pretty much describes the good doctor's position on abortion rights, so maybe there's something to this.

63 webevintage  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:08:21pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

You could google the NPR code of ethics and read it for yourself.

But she is not an NPR employee.

64 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:08:36pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

You could google the NPR code of ethics and read it for yourself.

So you're seriously going to side with the right wing hate machine on this? That's kinda sad.

65 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:08:55pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

You could google the NPR code of ethics and read it for yourself.

And you could learn some manners, but I won't tell you to google that.

66 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:09:36pm

re: #61 Charles

I already did. It doesn't apply to this situation.

As you wish. Npr feels differently. Their network, their rules. They could keep her or fire her. Makes no difference in my life, I don't even like opera.

67 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:09:49pm

I guess giving a shit about your living conditions and your country is now a violation of ethics


POLITICALLY NEUTER, THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY, LEAVE YOUR BALLS AT THE DOOR

68 jaunte  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:10:12pm
The station said it plans to keep Lisa Simeone as host and has said her involvement in a political protest does not affect her job as a music program host.

That seems like a reasonable response to an opera show host attending a political event on her own time.

69 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:10:49pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

I guess giving a shit about your living conditions and your country is now a violation of ethics

POLITICALLY NEUTER, THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY, LEAVE YOUR BALLS AT THE DOOR

Isn't that ironic? I mean. Waterboarding is so ethical isn't it? I'm laughing my head off here.

70 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:11:18pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

As you wish. Npr feels differently. Their network, their rules. They could keep her or fire her. Makes no difference in my life, I don't even like opera.

That's funny, you sounded so concerned just a couple of posts ago.

71 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:11:24pm

re: #51 Charles

She hosts an opera show.

You're not seriously going to argue that her political activities affect her ability to properly cover the world of opera, are you?

Maybe so -- you were arguing in favor of letting teachers be fired earlier, because they're indoctrinating kids to be Democrats.

That is not what I said earlier today. And all I was saying here is that something isn't a smear if its true. It may be irrelevant, but it is not a smear if it is factually correct.

Please do not be so quick to assume. It's your blog, and so you can do as you like, but I would ask you not be so quick to take a negative view of what I say.

72 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:11:34pm

re: #68 jaunte

That seems like a reasonable response to an opera show host attending a political event on her own time.

That's the point. Her employer has NO PROBLEM with her political activities. NPR is taking this action solely because they're afraid of the wingnut PR.

73 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:11:36pm

re: #64 Charles

So you're seriously going to side with the right wing hate machine on this? That's kinda sad.

I'm oddly unsaddened. Maybe my tear meter is busted.

74 webevintage  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:11:50pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

As you wish. Npr feels differently. Their network, their rules. They could keep her or fire her. Makes no difference in my life, I don't even like opera.

She. Does. Not. Work. For. NPR.

75 allegro  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:12:08pm

re: #69 Gus 802

Isn't that ironic? I mean. Waterboarding is so ethical isn't it? I'm laughing my head off here.

Yeah well you can laugh with your Chinese food and Guiness. I just lost one of my favorite programs and I am PISSED.

76 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:12:17pm

re: #69 Gus 802

Isn't that ironic? I mean. Waterboarding is so ethical isn't it? I'm laughing my head off here.

I can't stop saluting the torturers, myself

Mom and apple pie and electrocuting genitals, hell yeah

77 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:12:52pm

re: #74 webevintage

She. Does. Not. Work. For. NPR.

If you bothered to read the NPR code of ethics it applies to freelancers too.

78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:12:54pm

re: #58 Gus 802

Seriously? Yeah, freedom of speech really upsets Neocons.

Lol

79 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:13:34pm

remember kids! Don't protest unless your master gives you permission! That's the American way!

Sit! Roll over!

80 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:13:50pm

re: #67 WindUpBird

I guess giving a shit about your living conditions and your country is now a violation of ethics

POLITICALLY NEUTER, THAT'S THE AMERICAN WAY, LEAVE YOUR BALLS AT THE DOOR

NPR is being extra-careful to avoid any appearance of "left-wing bias" ever since Fox and their Congress cronies tried to defund them. Sad, but not surprising, to see them cave like this.

81 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:14:21pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

I'm oddly unsaddened. Maybe my tear meter is busted.

Maybe it is.

82 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:14:55pm

OT, but I found out my employer gives us access to Safari Books Online. Highly recommended that any other tech heads with access take advantage of it. Ebooks of basically every tech book published in the last decade.

83 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:15:24pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

That is not what I said earlier today. And all I was saying here is that something isn't a smear if its true. It may be irrelevant, but it is not a smear if it is factually correct.

Please do not be so quick to assume. It's your blog, and so you can do as you like, but I would ask you not be so quick to take a negative view of what I say.

Do you think the firing was right?

84 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:15:26pm

re: #72 Charles

That's the point. Her employer has NO PROBLEM with her political activities. NPR is taking this action solely because they're afraid of the wingnut PR.

When you are in a public-visible position, that sort of thing can happen. NPR made a financial decision. They don't want controversy cutting into their donations and they don't want Congress going after their budget again. Much easier to just throw the controversial person overboard. I've seen it happen before more than once.

85 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:15:28pm

re: #79 WindUpBird

You forgot 'otherwise the commies will get you!'

STALIN GRR!

86 allegro  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:15:56pm

re: #80 Atlas Fails

NPR is being extra-careful to avoid any appearance of "left-wing bias" ever since Fox and their Congress cronies tried to defund them. Sad, but not surprising, to see them cave like this.

It's all the fucking caving to these douche canoes that has caused a whole lot of the problems we have now. I mean just LOOK at the line-up of Rep candidates for president that second graders could beat in a simple American history test.

Jeez, I am so pissed over this I'm sputtering. LOL

87 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:16:05pm

re: #85 windsagio

You forgot 'otherwise the commies will get you!'

STALIN GRR!

the commies are coming! From that...USSR...place...that...doesn't exist...anymore

88 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:16:18pm

re: #72 Charles

That's the point. Her employer has NO PROBLEM with her political activities. NPR is taking this action solely because they're afraid of the wingnut PR.

I don't think they're so much afraid of wingnuts but as a government funded network they seem to think extra care towards ethics and impartiality is important to maintaining their credibility. I think they do a damn fine job of it. Probably the highest standards in the business.

89 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:16:36pm

NPR always folds just about, its one of those sad things.

It's also the reason they've been pushing the 'left wing media' joke for so long, to terrorize/neuter groups like NPR.

90 blueraven  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:16:55pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

If you bothered to read the NPR code of ethics it applies to freelancers too.

Or not...

NPR’s ethics code states that “NPR journalists may not participate in marches and rallies” involving issues NPR covers. The code notes that some provisions may not apply to outside contributors. It uses a freelancer who primarily contributes arts coverage as an example.

Rehm said the network didn’t need to cite the code in its decision to drop the show because its position on hosts’ political activities was “even more fundamental.”

91 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:16:58pm

re: #78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol

You know the maximum age for joining the army is 42. A lot of people can still join. Many could have joined back in 2003. Hey ho it's off to war we go! For everyone except them.

92 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:17:36pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

I don't think they're so much afraid of wingnuts but as a government funded network they seem to think extra care towards ethics and impartiality is important to maintaining their credibility. I think they do a damn fine job of it. Probably the highest standards in the business.

Funny... most other media critics seem to think they're making a big mistake by trying to placate the right wing.

93 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:17:52pm

re: #91 Gus 802

it used to be 35 didn't it?

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:18:46pm

re: #89 windsagio

NPR always folds just about, its one of those sad things.

It's also the reason they've been pushing the 'left wing media' joke for so long, to terrorize/neuter groups like NPR.

at least the pigs can't shut down my favorite podcasts!

95 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:19:14pm

Erika Miklosa as Queen of the Night


Hot chick makes the squeeky sounds
96 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:19:40pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

I don't think they're so much afraid of wingnuts but as a government funded network they seem to think extra care towards ethics and impartiality is important to maintaining their credibility. I think they do a damn fine job of it. Probably the highest standards in the business.

Funny how NPR is considered government funded, when Lockheed Martin and Co are considered private. Countless groups, bodies, boards and companies receive government funding in a wide variety of circumstances and forms. NPR is afraid of the right wing, and for good reason. That's what's motivated this very public firing. To pretend otherwise is lunacy or simply dishonest.

97 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:19:44pm

re: #94 WindUpBird

at least the pigs can't shut down my favorite podcasts!

Not for lack of wanting to... Oh wait thats the RIAA again

98 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:19:52pm

And that would include me. NPR's coverage has become noticeably less willing to tackle controversial subjects since the last round of GOP attacks. They're running scared.

99 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:20:16pm

re: #91 Gus 802

You know the maximum age for joining the army is 42. A lot of people can still join. Many could have joined back in 2003. Hey ho it's off to war we go! For everyone except them.

As a liberal who went into the army straight out of high school and spent the next 16 years wearing green, conservative chicken hawks are a pet peeve of mine. I find that particular cowardice risible at best.

100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:20:19pm

Anything that actively damages or destroys others is ethical.

The only "people" these feckless cons give a damn about are not/never-born fetuses and corporations.

Everyone else? FAIR GAME for their killing machines.

The rest of us are amoral, though e_e

re: #69 Gus 802

Isn't that ironic? I mean. Waterboarding is so ethical isn't it? I'm laughing my head off here.

101 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:20:23pm

re: #93 windsagio

it used to be 35 didn't it?

I don't remember actually.

102 jaunte  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:20:52pm

It's probably not possible to placate the right wing by bending over backwards to demonstrate even-handedness.

103 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:21:12pm

re: #96 McSpiff

It's because the GOP is going directly at their funding every chance they get.

Depending on the day my opinion changes as to whether they're just trying to destroy objective reporting or if they honestly believe that NPR has a massive bias against AMERICA and FREEDOM.

104 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:21:23pm

re: #102 jaunte

It's probably not possible to placate the right wing by bending over backwards to demonstrate even-handedness.

showing weakness is totally effective!

105 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:21:43pm

re: #89 windsagio

NPR always folds just about, its one of those sad things.

It's also the reason they've been pushing the 'left wing media' joke for so long, to terrorize/neuter groups like NPR.

NPR just seems intent on avoiding controversy altogether. I was against the Juan Williams firing, for the record, but I don't think it was ideologically motivated. Just like with this case, NPR caused itself more grief by trying to avoid a 'problem.'

106 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:21:50pm

re: #99 wlewisiii

wait, aren't you a socialist or something?

Were you infiltrating our military?

107 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:22:34pm

re: #103 windsagio

It's because the GOP is going directly at their funding every chance they get.

Depending on the day my opinion changes as to whether they're just trying to destroy objective reporting or if they honestly believe that NPR has a massive bias against AMERICA and FREEDOM.

Deciding if the GOP is evil or just stupid is a bit like trying to decide if light is a wave or a particle.

108 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:22:44pm

re: #105 Atlas Fails

NPR just seems intent on avoiding controversy altogether. I was against the Juan Williams firing, for the record, but I don't think it was ideologically motivated. Just like with this case, NPR caused itself more grief by trying to avoid a 'problem.'

man, thank god my opera coverage is free from evil communists

109 jvic  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:22:45pm

The NPR Code of Ethics is here.

...There will be instances where provisions of this code are not applicable to an outside contributor. For example, a freelancer who primarily does arts coverage, for example, may not in some situations be subject to the prohibition on making contributions to political campaigns. Such contributions, however, might limit the range of topics or individuals the outside contributor could cover. Supervisors will make these judgments on a case-by-case basis and, if necessary, in consultation with the appropriate programming Senior Vice President, Vice President or their designee, to determine if it's convenient to throw someone to the wolves.

I edited it. The boldface is mine. Just trying to help out.

110 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:22:59pm

re: #103 windsagio

I should apologize, I accidently used 'GOP' and 'honestly' in the same post.

111 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:24:13pm

re: #109 jvic

The NPR Code of Ethics is here.

I edited it. The boldface is mine. Just trying to help out.

Looks like I'm not the only one who should read the actual code of ethics.

112 Atlas Fails  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:25:04pm

Going to California:

And on that note, I'm going to bed.

113 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:25:09pm

re: #83 Atlas Fails

Do you think the firing was right?

That's just the way public visible jobs are: If you become a liability to your employer you will be fired, even if the thing that caused you to become a liability is not your fault. They've got a business to run, and right and wrong don't enter into it. It's all about the money:

114 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:25:46pm

re: #106 windsagio

wait, aren't you a socialist or something?

Were you infiltrating our military?

Yes I am a Democratic Socialist ( [Link: www.dsausa.org...] ) but I am also an American who was damn proud of his stripes. I am not the only one.

The right wing would do well to remember that.

115 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:25:52pm

BWV 208 (sheep may safely graze)


Rest in peace to my buster tear meter.
G'nite, y'all
116 jaunte  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:26:07pm

re: #109 jvic

Supervisors will make these judgments on a case-by-case basis

That does tend to muddy the bright lines.

117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:26:18pm

I might have, but thanks to the same stupid bigots, that career path was closed to me until, like, a month ago.

Dumb, can't-compete confederates.

re: #79 WindUpBird

remember kids! Don't protest unless your master gives you permission! That's the American way!

Sit! Roll over!

re: #99 wlewisiii

As a liberal who went into the army straight out of high school and spent the next 16 years wearing green, conservative chicken hawks are a pet peeve of mine. I find that particular cowardice risible at best.

118 austin_blue  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:27:03pm

re: #109 jvic

The NPR Code of Ethics is here.

I edited it. The boldface is mine. Just trying to help out.

Well, no wonder they are hated by the Right.

119 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:27:15pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

What you said is true, but his question was, do you think it's right?

120 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:28:35pm

re: #117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Understood.

121 palomino  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:28:45pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

That's just the way public visible jobs are: If you become a liability to your employer you will be fired, even if the thing that caused you to become a liability is not your fault. They've got a business to run, and right and wrong don't enter into it. It's all about the money:

[Video]

Which is the entire crux of the problem...in a lot more cases than this one. All over the place, in fact.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:30:37pm

re: #53 Gus 802

Uh. The show wasn't a political show. It wasn't a news show. Why don't they fire Garrison Keillor?

Because the people would rise up.

123 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:31:30pm

So let's review, shall we?

The NPR code of ethics says that "a freelancer who primarily does arts coverage, for example, may not in some situations be subject to the prohibition on making contributions to political campaigns."

NPR made a specific decision in this case alone to exercise their "ethics" option -- not because the "violation" was especially egregious, but because the right wing hate machine kicked into high gear and demanded the personal destruction of Lisa Simeone.

I think that's kind of low.

124 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:32:29pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Because the people would rise up.

Man that's kind of depressing.

I can totally buy that they were willing to sacrifice her because people wouldn't care that much.

Time for Keillor or Terry Gross to go and put 'em in a bind :D

125 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:32:41pm

re: #123 Charles

So let's review, shall we?

The NPR code of ethics says that "a freelancer who primarily does arts coverage, for example, may not in some situations be subject to the prohibition on making contributions to political campaigns."

NPR made a specific decision in this case alone to exercise their "ethics" option -- not because the "violation" was especially egregious, but because the right wing hate machine kicked into high gear and demanded the personal destruction of Lisa Simeone.

I think that's kind of low.

It seems to me they want to avoid the charge they're biased at all costs especially following Williams.

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:32:42pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

As you wish. Npr feels differently. Their network, their rules. They could keep her or fire her. Makes no difference in my life, I don't even like opera.

I hope she sues their asses. Creating a situation in which a non-reporter freelancing for your company can be fired for political organizing is a bad idea.

127 blueraven  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:33:34pm

re: #123 Charles

So let's review, shall we?

The NPR code of ethics says that "a freelancer who primarily does arts coverage, for example, may not in some situations be subject to the prohibition on making contributions to political campaigns."

NPR made a specific decision in this case alone to exercise their "ethics" option -- not because the "violation" was especially egregious, but because the right wing hate machine kicked into high gear and demanded the personal destruction of Lisa Simeone.

I think that's kind of low.

The real Opera conundrum?

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:34:17pm

Well, nothing to update yet, for those that saw my post in the earlier thread.

Don't know yet if the Palin-lookalike is the bad guy, although I'm sure Nancy will win in the end. I just find it funny that the company created the character, and that it's so obvious.

129 Kragar  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:34:26pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

I hope she sues their asses. Creating a situation in which a non-reporter freelancing for your company can be fired for political organizing is a bad idea.

Wrongful termination lawsuits are always fun.

130 austin_blue  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:34:44pm

Oh, by the way, there's a push to put Confederate Swastikas on Texas license plates.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Nice!

It's Heritage, not Hate! It's our heritage to view Ni**ers as chattel slaves!

131 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:36:22pm

re: #130 austin_blue

Oh, by the way, there's a push to put Confederate Swastikas on Texas license plates.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Nice!

It's Heritage, not Hate! It's our heritage to view Ni**ers as chattel slaves!

Our heritage to own fellow human beings. I don't get why my fellow Southerners love celebrating the South. And unlike the Chicago Cubs, they're not lovable loesrs.

132 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:37:13pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

Lisa Simeone: Why I Will Be There

[Video]
If she had her way Saddam Hussien , Q'daffy, and Bin Laden would still be alive and we wouldn't be fighting the Lord's Resistance Army.
/Win!

If she had her way? You give her an awful lot of power that she does not posses. She'll likely never have her way in these matters but she is entitled to her opinion. This is after all a free country. And this "Class of 2004" line of thinking is so antiquated and downright atavistic Here, you might want to read this again. It might sound familiar:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Oh, and if Senator Obama had his way back in 2003 Saddam Hussien would have still been alive. Oh, and don't forget who helped create that madman.

133 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:37:49pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

I hope she sues their asses. Creating a situation in which a non-reporter freelancing for your company can be fired for political organizing is a bad idea.

If they continue on this path, NPR won't have to worry about the right wing destroying them -- they'll destroy themselves.

134 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:37:51pm

re: #119 Renaissance_Man

What you said is true, but his question was, do you think it's right?

I think it was the right call by NPR: They needed to keep their funding and donations and she had become an impediment to doing that. The last time NPR seriously tried conclusions with the right, they found themselves defeated with two of their top executives ended up resigning. They could not win, so they acquiesced.

Again, 'fair to the individual' does not enter into it. It's about the organization and its money.

135 allegro  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:39:22pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I think it was the right call by NPR: They needed to keep their funding and donations and she had become an impediment to doing that. The last time NPR seriously tried conclusions with the right, they found themselves defeated with two of their top executives ended up resigning. They could not win, so they acquiesced.

Again, 'fair to the individual' does not enter into it. It's about the organization and its money.

How many donations is this losing?

136 palomino  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:39:32pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I think it was the right call by NPR: They needed to keep their funding and donations and she had become an impediment to doing that. The last time NPR seriously tried conclusions with the right, they found themselves defeated with two of their top executives ended up resigning. They could not win, so they acquiesced.

Again, 'fair to the individual' does not enter into it. It's about the organization and its money.

You got any stats on that, maybe a link?

137 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:40:36pm

re: #130 austin_blue

Oh, by the way, there's a push to put Confederate Swastikas on Texas license plates.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Nice!

It's Heritage, not Hate! It's our heritage to view Ni**ers as chattel slaves!

It really ticked us off when we moved to Texas back in '95, that when you tour the capital, they'll tell you that Texas belonged to six nations: Spain, France, Mexico, the Confederacy, itself, and the US.

The confederacy was never a country; that's what the war was over. If the North had acknowledged it as a country, that would have been the end of the war.

It was a confederation of states rebelling against the federal government. It was never a legally acknowledged nation.

138 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:41:02pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I think it was the right call by NPR: They needed to keep their funding and donations and she had become an impediment to doing that. The last time NPR seriously tried conclusions with the right, they found themselves defeated with two of their top executives ended up resigning. They could not win, so they acquiesced.

Again, 'fair to the individual' does not enter into it. It's about the organization and its money.

Well, it's not surprising that you approve of this. You've already made it clear that whatever the right wing bosses want, you're on board, no matter who gets hurt.

139 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:41:26pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wrongful termination lawsuits are always fun.

Still, its cheaper to settle a lawsuit than to lose your funding.

140 jaunte  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:43:16pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

By so transparently folding to this kind of pressure, NPR will lose contributions from people who would otherwise have supported them.

141 palomino  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:43:30pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Still, its cheaper to settle a lawsuit than to lose your funding.

Wait, NPR is gonna lose their funding because an unknown opera lady made a video supporting a nationwide protest? That's fucked in the head.

142 austin_blue  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:44:14pm

re: #133 Charles

If they continue on this path, NPR won't have to worry about the right wing destroying them -- they'll destroy themselves.

I don't know, Charles, there seems to be a measure of plausible deniability in this *specific* situation.

The forces behind the attempt to destroy NPR seem to be reaching. And we know who they are.

(Koch)

143 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:45:01pm

re: #141 palomino

Wait, NPR is gonna lose their funding because an unknown opera lady made a video supporting a nationwide protest? That's fucked in the head.

I'm absolutely certain that standing behind Lisa Simeone's right to free expression would have garnered NPR a lot of support from their core audience.

Instead of making their core audience say, "What the fuck are you doing?"

144 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:45:15pm

re: #137 EmmmieG

It really ticked us off when we moved to Texas back in '95, that when you tour the capital, they'll tell you that Texas belonged to six nations: Spain, France, Mexico, the Confederacy, itself, and the US.

The confederacy was never a country; that's what the war was over. If the North had acknowledged it as a country, that would have been the end of the war.

It was a confederation of states rebelling against the federal government. It was never a legally acknowledged nation.

Honest I'll never understand why the Confederacy is romanticized and I've lived in Virginia my whole life.

145 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:45:35pm

re: #138 Charles

Well, it's not surprising that you approve of this. You've already made it clear that whatever the right wing bosses want, you're on board. No matter who gets hurt.

No, Charles, I've just been on the receiving end of this procedure enough times that it has ceased to offend me. I now accept it as The Way It Is. If you want proper treatment from an employer in a case like this, the only way to get it is to show that the risk involved in firing you is greater than the risk of the liability you otherwise represent. The people who actually make the decision don' know you, and all you are to them is a calculation.

146 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:46:36pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I think it was the right call by NPR: They needed to keep their funding and donations and she had become an impediment to doing that. The last time NPR seriously tried conclusions with the right, they found themselves defeated with two of their top executives ended up resigning. They could not win, so they acquiesced.

Again, 'fair to the individual' does not enter into it. It's about the organization and its money.

Your avoidance of any ethical or moral statement is noted.

However, you have no evidence to suggest that funding or donations were jeopardised, just an assertion. An assertion that makes no sense, since no action that NPR could take would prevent cult Congressmen from trying to defund it, or prevent cult media from attacking it. Furthermore, it is highly doubtful that anyone currently donating to NPR would change their mind because of an accusation from the cult media.

So your opinion becomes essentially that it's 'right' because the right thing for NPR to do is acquiesce when attacked by cult media, in the vain hope that the attacks might stop.

On the bright side, that's not the most unethical position you've taken today.

147 allegro  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:46:45pm

re: #143 Charles

I'm absolutely certain that standing behind Lisa Simeone's right to free expression would have garnered NPR a lot of support from their core audience.

Instead of making their core audience say, "What the fuck are you doing?"

Seriously. I mean who are NPR listeners? Certainly not the slug minded Fox news teabaggers. This blows sludge.

148 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:47:51pm

Hey!!!

That is such a hateful thing to say!!

If not for us Confederates taking God's Accursed under our wings, they would not have had the opportunity to make it rich dancing and singing for us (they are soooo talented!)

Why can't they just be more grateful!!!

re: #130 austin_blue

Oh, by the way, there's a push to put Confederate Swastikas on Texas license plates.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Nice!

It's Heritage, not Hate! It's our heritage to view Ni**ers as chattel slaves!

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:48:43pm

Friend of mine is checking into a hotel in Humboldt. He writes: ok, when checking in the hotel manager told us that there was no smoking even if it is medical.

150 windsagio  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:49:01pm

re: #143 Charles

Problem is that congress can really fuck them over with funding.

What they need to realize is that the GOP is going to do their best to defund NPR either way, so they might as well man up.

151 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:50:25pm

re: #141 palomino

Wait, NPR is gonna lose their funding because an unknown opera lady made a video supporting a nationwide protest? That's fucked in the head.

That is the TP/GOP way. Destroy anything that says anything other than what you want it to. DF is a bit more baldfaced about it than many here are comfortable with but right now he's right. It's cheaper to settle a wrongful termination suit than deal with the teabaggers in congress.

It's not a viable long term strategy because it will cost them during this falls membership drives. I know it keeps me from giving the small amount I can afford. But unless/until Reid grows a pair, it's really the only strategy they have.

152 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:50:35pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Friend of mine is checking into a hotel in Humboldt. He writes: ok, when checking in the hotel manager told us that there was no smoking even if it is medical.

Driving through Humboldt you can easily smell the grows from the freeway.

153 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:54:11pm

Yes. I'm sure that after this move by NPR they'll be in good graces with Andrew Breitbart and Eric Cantor.

Happens all the time.

//

154 blueraven  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:54:17pm

Breaking News:

Saudi Crown Prince dies at 81

155 jaunte  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:55:36pm

re: #153 Gus 802

They're nice wolves, they'll settle for the first scrap off the back of the sleigh.

156 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:55:40pm

re: #151 wlewisiii

That is the TP/GOP way. Destroy anything that says anything other than what you want it to. DF is a bit more baldfaced about it than many here are comfortable with but right now he's right. It's cheaper to settle a wrongful termination suit than deal with the teabaggers in congress.

It's not a viable long term strategy because it will cost them during this falls membership drives. I know it keeps me from giving the small amount I can afford. But unless/until Reid grows a pair, it's really the only strategy they have.

But that strategy doesn't work. Simply put, no action by a target of the cult will ever make the cult stop attacking you. That's because their attacks are not based in fact. Their attacks don't even have to make sense. They can literally be nonsensical strings of buzzwords, pure word salad, and they will have the desired response: cultists will be angry, diehard Republicans will rationalise their support, and the rest of America will wring their hands and wish 'both sides would stop fighting'.

I'm not saying you have to fight - sometimes fighting isn't the best strategy either. I can't honestly say what the best strategy is - I just know that no action you can possibly take in that situation will make the cult stop hating you. On the other hand, they'll be on to a different nontroversy within the hour, so letting it blow over may well be viable.

157 avanti  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:57:09pm

I notice a interesting trend on Hot Air recently. More than once they've posted headlines about studies that confirm global warming, but unlike other headlines they never seem to make it to a thread for comments. Just today they posted this link:

Climate change skeptics.

158 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:58:44pm

re: #146 Renaissance_Man

Your avoidance of any ethical or moral statement is noted.

However, you have no evidence to suggest that funding or donations were jeopardised, just an assertion. An assertion that makes no sense, since no action that NPR could take would prevent cult Congressmen from trying to defund it, or prevent cult media from attacking it. Furthermore, it is highly doubtful that anyone currently donating to NPR would change their mind because of an accusation from the cult media.

So your opinion becomes essentially that it's 'right' because the right thing for NPR to do is acquiesce when attacked by cult media, in the vain hope that the attacks might stop.

On the bright side, that's not the most unethical position you've taken today.

The reason I'm not making a moral judgement is that I'd need to know more about the protest she organized and if it would have impacted her work with NPR. But even then, when you run a big organization you have to think about the organization as a whole. Often decisions are reached on that basis, not on the fairness to one person. The conflict between the needs of the many and the needs of the one is not an easy question to answer.

159 jvic  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 8:59:31pm

1. re: #134 Dark_Falcon

Again, 'fair to the individual' does not enter into it. It's about the organization and its money.

That's a brutal way of putting it. You may be correct but, as others have indicated, NPR would be wise to at least pay lip service to being a nonprofit operating in the public interest.

2. re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

I hope she sues their asses. Creating a situation in which a non-reporter freelancing for your company can be fired for political organizing is a bad idea.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how she has a strong case. An organization has less obligation to a short-term contractor than it has to a permanent employee doing equivalent work. That's part of the point--the convenience--to organizations of contractor status. Whether (ha!) organizations compensate contractors with more pay than comparable employees receive is a separate issue.

Simeone might argue that she was a de facto employee, but in that case NPR could respond that they can legally constrain employees more closely than they do contractors.

160 sagehen  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:00:34pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Friend of mine is checking into a hotel in Humboldt. He writes: ok, when checking in the hotel manager told us that there was no smoking even if it is medical.

Hey! Have you ever tried cleaning bong water out of carpet and upholstery? The hotel is just trying to keep their maintenance costs reasonable.

161 sagehen  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:03:09pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

The reason I'm not making a moral judgement is that I'd need to know more about the protest she organized and if it would have impacted her work with NPR.

Her work with NPR is that she hosts an opera show. She talks about 16th and 17th century composers.

I don't know how having a political opinion on her day off poses any sort of conflict.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:04:14pm

re: #160 sagehen

Hey! Have you ever tried cleaning bong water out of carpet and upholstery? The hotel is just trying to keep their maintenance costs reasonable.

I just find it hilarious that they're mentioning this, apparently routinely, to a forty-something man checking in with his teenage daughter who's doing the college tour.

163 allegro  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:05:15pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

I just find it hilarious that they're mentioning this, apparently routinely, to a forty-something man checking in with his teenage daughter who's doing the college tour.

Yeah, his daughter. Right. That's what they all say.

//

164 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:06:24pm

re: #161 sagehen

Her work with NPR is that she hosts an opera show. She talks about 16th and 17th century composers.

I don't know how having a political opinion on her day off poses any sort of conflict.

Of course the ultimate irony is that Opera is the ultimate 1%er art form.

Sigh. I'm going to go put a Bach Cantata on. BRB.

165 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:07:06pm

re: #160 sagehen

Hey! Have you ever tried cleaning bong water out of carpet and upholstery? The hotel is just trying to keep their maintenance costs reasonable.

College.. I'm pretty sure a bunch of us were banned for life from the Casablanca Hotel in Santa Cruz.. we were stupid kids...We filled our rooms up with bubble bath.. I'm talking about serious amounts of Bubble bath and a lack of clothes..Our version of girls gone wild...
College was fun.. I don't judge kids...Lest I be judged :")

166 Gus  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:09:17pm

Uh oh! Perhaps NPR should fire Bill Moyers: Bill Moyers on 'Democratic Decency Defined Downward'.

John Boehner calls on the bankers, holds out his cup, and offers them total obeisance from the House majority if only they will fill it. That’s now the norm, and they get away with it.

Barack Obama criticizes bankers as fat cats, then invites them to dine at a pricy New York restaurant where the tasting menu runs to $195 a person. And that’s the norm. And they get away with it.

As we speak, the president has raised more money from banks, hedge funds, and private equity managers than any Republican candidate, including Mitt Romney. Let’s name it for what it is: democratic decency defined downward. Politics today—and there are honorable men and women in it—but politics today is little more than money laundering and the trafficking of power and policy, fewer than six degrees of separation from the spirit and tactics of Tony Soprano.

Why New York’s Zuccotti Park is occupied is no mystery—reporters keep scratching their heads and asking, “Why are you here?” But it’s as clear as the crash of 2008: they are occupying Wall Street because Wall Street has occupied America.

167 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:18:57pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Uh oh! Perhaps NPR should fire Bill Moyers: Bill Moyers on 'Democratic Decency Defined Downward'.

Yesterday I posted a quote by David Sedaris where he appears to equate the GOP to a "platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it."

NPR management's problem is that if they tried to fire Sedaris or Sarah Vowell their listeners and people who donate would actually revolt. Most people probably haven't heard of the opera lady.

168 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:20:14pm

Flash Mobs: They're not just for Americans anymore.

October 21, 2011: As smart phones, or cell phones that provide some access to the Internet, appear in less affluent nations, more people are using Twitter, blogs, FaceBook and other social media. This has proved a big boost for Islamic radicals and terrorists. This is because Islamic radicals preach a doctrine of violent defense of Islam, and the belief that infidels (non-Moslems) are actively waging war against Islam. This seems odd to Westerners, because most of the terrorist attacks, and religious based violence has been coming from Islamic radicals. No matter, the belief that "Islam is under attack" is widely accepted in the Islamic world. Because of that, any rumor that a specific attack has been made on Moslems is readily believed. Thus Twitter is the ideal tool for quickly organizing an attack on non-Moslems (or Moslems of some minority sect that is considered heretical). Such attacks often result in the victims fighting back, and this provides all the justification the Islamic radicals need for the initial attack. Yeah, that sounds ridiculous to Western ears, but it works all the time in Moslem countries with non-Moslem minorities. All this Twitter inspired violence helps the Islamic radicals recruit more Islamic terrorists.

StrategyPage is not a wingnut site, but I do hope Pam Geller doesn't read this story. Because she'd link to it, and then use it as the starting point for a hateful riff on Islam, arguing that all Muslims are prone to taking part in such attacks.

169 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:22:15pm

I must say,,,Thank you Lizards.. your kind words and support for my Pops means a lot to me...I know that no matter if I am in Oklahoma or the far reaches of the world...We are right here...Thank you..I talked to my dad today and it the first time I have ever heard him cry..devastating news..
Thank you..

So guess what? You know my buddy I met in Oklahoma I talk about a lot? Well he had ESPN at his Restaurant today.. He is featured as a College football awesome freaking Restaurant here in Sooner Country..
So.. Watch The Oklahoma Game Saturday Night during the 2nd Quarter.. He has 2 nationwide Spots.. Yes.. That is my crazy friend who cooks better than anybody I know..

170 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:22:38pm

A State Dept. official confirms to CNN that Saudi Crown Prince Sultan al Saud has died.

171 laZardo  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:27:56pm

re: #170 Varek Raith

It's something King Abdullah may or may not have expected. March 2009:

Appointment of Prince Nayif
---------------------------

¶4. (C) Saudi King Abdallah issued a royal decree appointing
his half-brother, Interior Minister Prince Nayif bin
Abdalaziz, as second deputy prime minister March 27. The
position had been vacant since Abdallah became King in 2005.
Though the previous two crown princes held Nayif's new
position prior to being formally tapped as heirs to the
throne, this appointment does not necessarily mean Nayif is
"Crown Prince in Waiting," because King Abdallah created a
committee -- the Allegiance Council -- to select the King's
successor.

¶5. (S) The King was likely driven by expediency. Crown
Prince Sultan is for all intents and purposes incapacitated,
and the King needed to travel abroad.
Someone had to be left
in charge and Nayif, by virtue of his seniority among the
sons of Abdalaziz and his position as Minister of Interior,
was by tradition the leading candidate for the job.
Assistant Interior Minister Mohammed bin Nayif (MBN) told the
Ambassador that his father's appointment should not be seen
in the light of succession, but as "an administrative
necessity."

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:31:42pm

re: #167 goddamnedfrank

Yesterday I posted a quote by David Sedaris where he appears to equate the GOP to a "platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it."

NPR management's problem is that if they tried to fire Sedaris or Sarah Vowell their listeners and people who donate would actually revolt. Most people probably haven't heard of the opera lady.

Well, their ethics policy doesn't appear to say you can't talk trash about politicians or political movements, merely that you can't go to demos.

Which is the part I'm not sure would survive scrutiny in court.

173 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:33:57pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I think it was the right call by NPR:

I can not sanction squelching a personal 1st amendment option like that. NPR pooched this. As in screwed the pooch.

174 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 9:39:16pm

I have a question.
Have I been sounding like a jerk the past week? I looked back on my previous comments and it sure seems like it.
:/
I blame Firefox.

175 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 21, 2011 10:03:03pm

re: #173 Rightwingconspirator

I can not sanction squelching a personal 1st amendment option like that. NPR pooched this. As in screwed the pooch.

I generally agree. I don't see how her opera show could in any way be connected to whatever she did with the OWS protest. But given that NPR has a code of ethics, and what's written on this particular thing is confusing (some are reading it one way, others a different way) I think I personally might have asked if it would pose a conflict of interest before I did anything.

176 Dire Straits  Sat, Oct 22, 2011 7:31:23am

William Shatner is the only guy I know with an advancing hairline.

177 Dire Straits  Sat, Oct 22, 2011 7:33:11am

re: #167 goddamnedfrank

Yesterday I posted a quote by David Sedaris where he appears to equate the GOP to a "platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it."

He sounds like a classy guy. That is the reason why so many people want NPR to be privatized.

178 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 22, 2011 9:47:46am

re: #177 Dire Straits

He sounds like a classy guy. That is the reason why so many people want NPR to be privatized.

Uh no... that has nothing to do with why "so many people want NPR to be privatized."

The right wing has been attacking NPR and PBS for many years. Their motivation is simple -- they see NPR/PBS as competition to right wing propaganda, and they're trying to eliminate that competition and shut down opposing voices.

179 freetoken  Sat, Oct 22, 2011 9:55:26am

re: #178 Charles

The right wing has been attacking NPR and PBS for many years. Their motivation is simple -- they see NPR/PBS as competition to right wing propaganda, and they're trying to eliminate that competition and shut down opposing voices.

Many years indeed. From the Wikipedia entry on Sesame Street:

Sesame Street was not without its detractors, however. In May 1970, a state commission in Mississippi voted to ban Sesame Street because of its "highly integrated cast of children" which "the commission members felt ... Mississippi was not yet ready for".[113]


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