Pat Buchanan Promotes Book On White Supremacist Radio Show

What else does anyone need to know about Pat Buchanan?
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Pat Buchanan apparently feels secure enough in his various media consulting positions to actually appear on an overtly white supremacist radio show — again: Pat Buchanan Promotes Book On ‘Pro-White’ Radio Show.

Buchanan has a long history marred by bigotry and hostility toward minorities. He recently released a new book, Suicide of a Superpower, which claims that America is disintegrating as whites lose their majority status. Buchanan also serves as a political analyst for MSNBC — an affiliation that was mentioned by host James Edwards after the interview and on the program’s website.

The Political Cesspool describes itself as representing “a philosophy that is pro-White … We wish to revive the White birthrate above replacement level fertility and beyond to grow the percentage of Whites in the world relative to other races.”

The Anti-Defamation League has criticized Edwards for having “white supremacist views” and interviewing “a variety of anti-Semites, white supremacists, Holocaust deniers, conspiracy theorists and anti-immigrant leaders.” The Southern Poverty Law Center wrote in 2007 that The Political Cesspool host “has probably done more than any of his contemporaries on the American radical right to publicly promote neo-Nazis, Holocaust deniers, raging anti-Semites and other extremists” and that his program “has become the primary radio nexus of hate in America.”

The SPLC notes that The Political Cesspool’s guest roster reads like a “Who’s Who” of radical racists, with guests like “white supremacist” Sam Dickson; “white supremacist” Paul Fromm; anti-Semitic professor Kevin MacDonald; and “neo-Nazi activist April Gaede.” Edwards has also hosted former KKK leader David Duke, of whom Edwards writes: “Contrary to the false image of a drooling ‘racist’ that the MSM would like to paint, David is a very thoughtful, intelligent, and gracious individual.”

Why does Pat Buchanan still have a job in the media?

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775 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 5:55:24pm

Pat will go anywhere that will put a live mic close enough to his pie-hole.

2 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 5:56:09pm

Cause he's a nice guy. I swear, I died when Rachel Maddow talked about how nice of a guy he was.

Think about it, in the old days journalists were not supposed to have opinions. But dang, those cocktail parties must have been amazing. Their shows are just that, shows for the populace. Their personal beliefs do not even match. Who the fuck knows.

3 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:01:49pm

So he finally went on Political Cesspool. Swell.

I was just talking about Kevin MacDonald in recent days, not related to Unka Pat.

Why does Pat Buchanan still have a job in the media?

Why shouldn't he have a job in the media? There is obviously a huge swath of the American media-consuming public for whom he speaks, who agree with what he says.

4 Obdicut  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:02:59pm
Why does Pat Buchanan still have a job in the media?

Because open racism is condoned in our national discourse, and even gets people called gutsy and brave and shit for doing it.

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:05:40pm

Why would you go to a place self-named "Cesspool"?

What's up next? The Political Dungheap?

The Political Manure Truck?

The Political Pigsty?

The Political Kitchen Midden?

The fact that it is named that tells you what it is in right away. Cesspools contain feces.

6 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:06:51pm

re: #5 EmmmieG

Why would you go to a place self-named "Cesspool"?

What's up next? The Political Dungheap?

The Political Manure Truck?

The Political Pigsty?

The Political Kitchen Midden?

The fact that it is named that tells you what it is in right away. Cesspools contain feces.

I think the next logical step is "Fox Business Network"

7 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:08:21pm

re: #5 EmmmieG

Why would you go to a place self-named "Cesspool"?

Because of who's running it.

James Edwards, neo-nazi skinhead in a suit, could call it the Dung Factory, conservative white bigots would still tune in.

8 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:08:54pm

re: #4 Obdicut

Because open racism is condoned in our national discourse, and even gets people called gutsy and brave and shit for doing it.

It's been this way since Reconstruction.

9 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:09:14pm

re: #7 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Because of who's running it.

James Edwards, neo-nazi skinhead in a suit, could call it the Dung Factory, conservative white bigots would still tune in.

Couldn't call it Dung Factory for that crowd - too brown.

10 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:10:34pm

re: #9 wozzablog

Couldn't call it Dung Factory for that crowd - too brown.

You could call it The Pus-Maggot White show, the same people would show up on it and listen to it.

11 brandoncraig  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:10:34pm

I'm in the same city where the Political Cesspool originates and know people who know the guy who heads it up. He's been "into Hitler" since he was a teenager and "worships" David Duke.

Pat Buchanan should know better than to give credibility to such nutcases and should no longer be a pundit on legitimate news and opinion shows. Time for Pat and his hate to be retired.

12 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:13:22pm

Fat Puke-cannon has been an out and out slobbering nazi racist for years and years. so, what took him so long?

13 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:16:14pm

I guarantee that ol' Uncle Pat used to listen to Father Coughlin in his youth.

14 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:16:52pm

Has anyone ever asked Pat for his scientific definition of whiteness?

15 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:17:17pm

re: #11 brandoncraig

I'm in the same city where the Political Cesspool originates and know people who know the guy who heads it up. He's been "into Hitler" since he was a teenager and "worships" David Duke.

Pat Buchanan should know better than to give credibility to such nutcases and should no longer be a pundit on legitimate news and opinion shows. Time for Pat and his hate to be retired.

Pat Buchanan has been spewing this same garbage in his book for 20 years, and it differs little from anything on Political Cesspool. It's not like this is a new thing for him, or that MSNBC hasn't known about it. Everybody knows about it.

Guest List for PC

Political Cesspool is just White Citizens Councils for the Web 2.0 age. Pat's been saying the same crap since the Nixon era.

16 Ming  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:18:05pm

Why does Pat Buchanan still have a job in the media? I don't understand why, but there is something wrong with our media today, and the problem is not limited to Fox News. Why did CNN (Howie Kurtz, Steve Roberts) and the New York Times (Janet Maslin) openly come out against Joe McGinnis' excellent book about Sarah Palin? Perhaps the problem is that the media news shows are little more than entertainment programs. Perhaps the problem is that many "journalists" get way too cozy with the people they're supposed to cover. In any case, it doesn't surprise me that apparently no one at MSNBC cares that they're employing a guy who goes on white-supremacy shows.

17 labman57  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:18:42pm

"It's a white man's world"... according to the voices in Pat Buchanan's head.

Among the numerous shocking, inflammatory, unabashedly racist and misogynistic statements that this hate-driven guy has spewed on the airwaves and in his writings is the conclusion that Sotomayor was a non-intellectual and had achieved all of her successes due to affirmative action. He also publicly mocked her for her admission that she had to work hard to master the English language while in college.

Her academic achievements speak for themselves, and she worked her way up the judicial ladder through hard work and mastery of her craft. The American Bar Association had given her the highest rating possible for a prospective appointment to the SCOTUS.

And of course, she was ultimately approved by the Senate to join the Supreme Court. And no, she has not been a laughing stock and has held her own quite capably since appointed to the Court.

But none of that matters to Buchanan, who cannot see past her gender, accent, or complexion. And if you were to ask Mr. Buchanan if he was a racist, he would no doubt explode in a rage of indignation over such an outlandish accusation.

18 Kragar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:18:43pm

re: #13 Charles

I guarantee that ol' Uncle Pat used to listen to Father Coughlin in his youth.

But Father Couglin talked about Social Justice, and everyone knows thats Liberal talk.
///

19 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:18:56pm

re: #16 Ming

the problem is that the media news shows are little more than entertainment programs

That's the main thing.

20 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:19:02pm

Commentators with a history of troubling statements, like Pat has, should not be near the major nets.

It's not a matter of not allowing them to express their opinions - the major nets have the right, and i would posit the responsibility, not to hire people as commentators who are purposefully divisive on racial, sexual or gender lines.

21 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:19:25pm

re: #14 jaunte

Has anyone ever asked Pat for his scientific definition of whiteness?

"Mirror mirror on the wall,,,,,,,"

22 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:20:32pm

What kind of a motto would you have?

The Political Cesspool: We're full of Crap!

The Political Cesspool: Nothing worth salvaging here!

The Political Cesspool: Our ideas smell as bad as they look!

23 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:21:24pm

re: #21 sattv4u2

"Mirror mirror on the wall,,,"

The anti-Catholic Klan bigots he's trying to impress would argue with that.

This is why we laugh at the very concept of "whiteness" - not even the whites can define it.

24 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:22:20pm

re: #20 wozzablog

Commentators with a history of troubling statements like Pat has should not be near the major nets.

It's not a matter of not allowing them to express their opinions - the major nets have the right, and i would posit the responsibility, not to hire people as commentators who are purposefully divisive on racial, sexual or gender lines.

Problem is,, slippery slope

I mean, who gets to decide if someone is purposefully divisive on racial, sexual or gender lines.

We can all agree on the extreme blatant instances, I'm sure, but as you get away from that, a what point do you say "well, that statement isn't that bad". Wheres the line??

25 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:22:43pm

re: #22 EmmmieG

What kind of a motto would you have?

The Political Cesspool: We're full of Crap!

The Political Cesspool: Nothing worth salvaging here!

The Political Cesspool: Our ideas smell as bad as they look!

How about Political Cesspool: Where White People's Crap Truly Smells Like Roses!

26 recusancy  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:23:26pm

re: #13 Charles

I guarantee that ol' Uncle Pat used to listen to Father Coughlin in his youth.

He said he didn't [Link: www.brookings.edu...]

But yeah, he probably did.

27 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:23:26pm

re: #22 EmmmieG

What kind of a motto would you have?

The Political Cesspool: We're full of Crap!

The Political Cesspool: Nothing worth salvaging here!

The Political Cesspool: Our ideas smell as bad as they look!

The Political CESSPOOL: Our name says it all!!

28 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:24:10pm

re: #20 wozzablog

Commentators with a history of troubling statements like Pat has should not be near the major nets.

It's not a matter of not allowing them to express their opinions - the major nets have the right, and i would posit the responsibility, not to hire people as commentators who are purposefully divisive on racial, sexual or gender lines.

You know what though? If you didn't know Pat's history, follow blogs about his past writings and current book, you would not know this about him. To the uninformed folks watching MSNBC, he's just the Republican counter point. And they want to keep it that way. That's where I so lose respect. There really are no principles.

29 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:24:33pm

re: #27 sattv4u2

The Political CESSPOOL: Our name says it all!!

The [Political] Cesspool: The home of states rights whites.

30 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:26:48pm

re: #24 sattv4u2

Problem is,, slippery slope

I mean, who gets to decide if someone is purposefully divisive on racial, sexual or gender lines.

We can all agree on the extreme blatant instances, I'm sure, but as you get away from that, a what point do you say "well, that statement isn't that bad". Wheres the line??

It's up to the major nets to decide in my world, but Limbaugh, Buchanan, Coulter, Fisher and the like would never be on my hire list.

Someone like Juan Williams has a couple of misdemeanors in his past, but when you put him up against "kill their leaders and convert them to christianity" going out primetime on a major net - I think there are clear instances of people having actual historys of hate speech that are gainfully employed as commentators.

I have very few problems with people making extreme political statements though.

31 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:29:18pm

re: #30 wozzablog

It's up to the major nets to decide in my world, but Limbaugh, Buchanan, Coulter, Fisher and the like would never be on my hire list.

I have very few problems with people making extreme political statements though.

Someone like Juan Williams has a couple of miisdemeanors in his past, but when you put him up against "kil their leaders and convert them to christianity" going out primetime on a major net - I think there are clear instances of people having historys of hate speech who are gainfully employed as commentators.

And thats what I said, that we could all agree on the extreme blatant instances.

But what i'm saying is, get away from the extreme and where's the line drawn before someone gets shut down

90% bad??
50%??
20%??

32 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:29:58pm

re: #28 Stanley Sea

You know what though? If you didn't know Pat's history, follow blogs about his past writings and current book, you would not know this about him. To the uninformed folks watching MSNBC, he's just the Republican counter point. And they want to keep it that way. That's where I so lose respect. There really are no principles.

He's a valid Republican counterpoint, because 1 -he articulates the views of so many white Republican-voting conservatives and 2- he's a Republican. He's an opportunist, MSNBC is opportunist, that's a situation worth criticizing.

But if someone dense comes away with the idea that the Republican Party is full of Pat Buchanans simply from watching MSNBC, that's the Republican Party's fault for lousy messaging.

33 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:30:20pm
34 windsagio  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:31:56pm

re: #32 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Pat is actually the honest mirror, they don't wanna admit that :p

35 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:32:06pm

re: #33 jaunte

OK Buchanan, Ellis Island photo quiz

White, or non-white?

How about now?

Are strange tribal tatts ok?

What about traditional head-coverings for females?

Last link

Person on the far right (as we look at it)

Looks like my cousin Phil one Halloween!!!

/ just sayin!

36 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:33:18pm

re: #31 sattv4u2

And thats what I said, that we could all agree on the extreme blatant instances.

But what i'm saying is, get away from the extreme and where's the line drawn before someone gets shut down

90% bad??
50%??
20%??

In my view, he shouldn't get shut down. But that's obviously up to MSNBC brass and no one else.

If he ever does, I do hope the confederates cry he's the victim of racial discrimination, as they will inevitably do.

37 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:34:36pm

And right on cue from
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

NBC's audio just shat the bed!!

38 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:34:59pm
39 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:36:32pm

re: #31 sattv4u2

And thats what I said, that we could all agree on the extreme blatant instances.

But what i'm saying is, get away from the extreme and where's the line drawn before someone gets shut down

90% bad??
50%??
20%??

There are always gray areas and always will be.

People employed as mainstream commentators or analysts may have highly objectionable views - but don't present them onscreen.

I don't think we have to go too far from extreme - there are more than enough examples of extreme for those people to be dealt with by their employers when contract renewals come around.

Glenn Beck would never have been an acceptable hire by a UK broadcaster, but somehow our broadcasters bravely battle on without such a "wonderful" divergence of opinion on screen affecting the discourse negatively....

40 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:36:55pm

re: #38 EmmmieG

I was exploring the New York Public Library's photostream earlier today, and found those Ellis Island pics. Their whole collection is well worth looking through.

41 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:37:03pm

re: #34 windsagio

Pat is actually the honest mirror, they don't wanna admit that :p

Funny, we can always hear a pin drop from white conservatives about Pat Buchanan, except for kneejerk, mealymouthed defense. I haven't heard any of them take apart his views, or this latest book. I don't ever expect to, either.

I hope he's given more of a voice by MSNBC, for exactly that reason.

42 Kragar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:37:09pm

re: #38 EmmmieG

Fezzes are cool.

43 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:37:17pm

re: #38 EmmmieG

Fezzes are cool.

and in a pinch, they make a great ice bucket!!

(don't ask ,,, a long night in Antalya Turkey)

44 Lidane  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:38:09pm

Pat Buchanan is one of the reasons I got turned off to the GOP when I first hit voting age.

I will never forget his frothing, unhinged, red meat speech at the 1992 RNC. The fact that he's had a career at all since then speaks volumes about the kinds of voices the GOP wants speaking for them.

45 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:40:42pm

Good thing he doesn't work for NPR. I heard they don't like controversy.
//

46 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:41:22pm

Ha! We just got a referrer from The McLaughlin Group.

From the Twitter feed there.

47 Interesting Times  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:44:22pm

re: #44 Lidane

I will never forget his frothing, unhinged, red meat speech at the 1992 RNC.

...which now reads like typical campaign talk from any GOP presidential candidate polling above single digits.

48 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:45:32pm

There are plenty of cleancut thrusting individuals without long history's of racist, sexist and homophobic behaviour to be message carriers for the republican party.

That the media chooses actively to employ these openly racists, sexists and homophobes on central contracts is something I find extremely objectionable.

It leads to a broadcast world without consequence and infinitely fucked up priorities - Ann Coulter advocates genocide, Glenn Beck calls the President racist and both get hearty slaps on the back from their chums....yet an accidental curse word or clothing misstep and all hell breaks loose with people wanting to clampdown on runaway indecency.

Fuck the lot of it.

49 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:45:55pm

re: #47 publicityStunted

...which now reads like typical campaign talk from any GOP presidential candidate polling above single digits.

Exactly. It was not fringe conservatism then, and it's not fringe conservatism now. Far from it.

50 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:46:34pm

OT.

Oh brother. Take a look at Drudge.

51 Interesting Times  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:48:17pm

re: #50 Gus 802

Oh brother. Take a look at Drudge.

We can haz screenshot? Don't want to give him traffic.

52 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:48:41pm

re: #50 Gus 802

OT.

Oh brother. Take a look at Drudge.

*deep exhale*

53 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:49:40pm

#50 Gus 802

The Sharia... it creeps...

54 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:50:26pm

re: #51 publicityStunted

We can haz screenshot? Don't want to give him traffic.

Coming up.

55 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:51:19pm

re: #38 EmmmieG

Fezzes are cool.

The Fez is even cooler:

56 darthstar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:51:34pm

My pie got first place in the "classic pumpkin pie" category...there were six entrants, and we were all "winners" (it was that kind of organic and family friendly event)...my prize - a jar of dried beans from the farm. I'll let you know if I find myself climbing to a golden egg laying goose later.

57 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:52:19pm
58 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:52:21pm

re: #48 wozzablog

Eh, I guess I'll stop flogging the dead horse that wishes the media had some set of hiring standards and that the regulation of said media isn't a complete farce.

59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:52:21pm

re: #48 wozzablog

There are plenty of cleancut thrusting individuals without long history's of racist, sexist and homophobic behaviour to be message carriers for the republican party.

That the media chooses actively to employ these people on central contracts is something I find extremely objectionable.

It leads to a broadcast world without consequence and infinitely fucked up priorities - Ann Coulter advocates genocide, Glenn Beck calls the President racist and both get hearty slaps on the back from their chums...yet an accidental curse word or clothing misstep and all hell breaks loose with people wanting to clampdown on runaway indecency.

Fuck the lot of it.

Honestly? I don't. It's a vindication of what we have been saying about these dumb confederates for well over 100 years. Despite conservatives' attempts to distance themselves from Political Cesspool, Council of Conservative Citizens/White Citizens Councils, third position, their views have been mainstreamed, not relegated to the fringe.

60 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:52:27pm

re: #55 talon_262

The Fez is even cooler:

[Video]

Not this one!!

Image: fez-that-70s-show-6429207-270-400.jpg

61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:52:45pm

re: #51 publicityStunted

The traffic's gigantic. You won't hurt anything.

62 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:53:46pm

re: #61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The traffic's gigantic. You won't hurt anything.

heh ,, yeah ,, Drudge won't eat tomorrow because "I" don't click on his site!!

63 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:53:47pm

re: #59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Honestly? I don't. It's a vindication of what we have been saying about these dumb confederates for well over 100 years. Despite conservatives' attempts to distance themselves from Political Cesspool, Council of Conservative Citizens/White Citizens Councils, third position, their views have been mainstreamed, not relegated to the fringe.

Hey, yes that shit exists - it should be reported on (people remember "reporting", right?). Not employed and encouraged as prime time filler.

64 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:54:49pm

And on that note, Halftime on the NFL game, then the long quiet drive home beckons

65 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:55:36pm

re: #61 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The traffic's gigantic. You won't hurt anything.

re: #62 sattv4u2

heh ,, yeah ,, Drudge won't eat tomorrow because "I" don't click on his site!!

Still..

66 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:55:45pm

re: #58 wozzablog

Eh, I guess I'll stop flogging the dead horse that wishes the media had some set of hiring standards and that the regulation of said media isn't a complete farce.

It is, and it isn't. MSNBC is cable, thus not regulated by the FCC.

Should the FCC regulate out Pat Buchanan because he appeared on Political Cesspool? Probably. But then, this is exactly how Pat Buchanan and Fox get away with it. They're not broadcast, they're cable.

67 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:55:57pm

re: #57 Gus 802

Here it is.

Image: drudge-obama-libya.jpg

Ugggghhhh...

68 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:56:23pm

24hr rage addiction, fear and occasional bunny rabbits. That's all the news media is now.

/start asking me about the rolling stones or cars.

69 darthstar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:56:26pm

Drudge has scabies.

70 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:56:54pm

re: #69 darthstar

Drudge has scabies.

#idonthavethefactstobackthisup

71 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:58:37pm
72 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:59:06pm

I see the other right wing scumbags jumped in already.

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

73 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:59:44pm

re: #71 talon_262

#drudgetalksoutofhisass

#drudgetalksdogwhistlesoutofhisass

74 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:59:54pm

re: #63 wozzablog

Hey, yes that shit exists - it should be reported on (people remember "reporting", right?). Not employed and encouraged as prime time filler.

Reported on, but to whom? In the mid 60s when television wasn't even 2 decades old, white conservatives turning waterhoses on nonviolent protesters was news. Now, in the era of the internet and youtube, the concept of "reporting on it" has shifted. That's where threads like this come in.

75 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:59:54pm

re: #72 Gus 802

I see the other right wing scumbags jumped in already.

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

Right on cue...never let an "opportunity" go to waste, right?

76 darthstar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:00:04pm
77 laZardo  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:00:19pm

ON A SOMEHOW VAGUELY RELATED NOTE:

Dad found this old cracker tin stuffed to the brim with half dollars, Eisenhower dollar coins and a thick wad of old bills.

Cursory wiki perusal doesn't show many of value though. Most of the half dollars were minted after 1970 (and thus not actually silver half-dollars, 90% up to 1964 and 40% 1965-1969) though there were a few Franklin halves.

The old bills were mostly $2 FRN but there was a $5 Series 1928, a $1 Silver certificate star note and $2 and $5 United States Notes.

78 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:00:33pm

re: #72 Gus 802

I see the other right wing scumbags jumped in already.

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

Oh god, they feature a graph Hoff compiled.

79 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:01:05pm

re: #78 wozzablog

Oh god, they feature a graph Hoff compiled.

Dumb and even dumber.

80 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:01:40pm

re: #66 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It is, and it isn't. MSNBC is cable, thus not regulated by the FCC.

Should the FCC regulate out Pat Buchanan because he appeared on Political Cesspool? Probably. But then, this is exactly how Pat Buchanan and Fox get away with it. They're not broadcast, they're cable.

About that Confederate thing:

Of his southern roots, Buchanan has written:
“ I have family roots in the South, in Mississippi. When the Civil War came, Cyrus Baldwin enlisted and did not survive Vicksburg. William Buchanan of Okolona, who would marry Baldwin’s daughter, fought at Atlanta and was captured by General Sherman. William Baldwin Buchanan was the name given to my father and by him to my late brother.

As a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, I have been to their gatherings. I spoke at the 2001 SCV convention in Lafayette, La. The Military Order of the Stars and Bars presented me with a battle flag and a wooden canteen like the ones my ancestors carried.[7]

--Wiki

81 [deleted]  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:02:07pm
82 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:03:21pm

Incoming.

83 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:03:36pm

re: #74 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Reported on, but to whom? In the mid 60s when television wasn't even 2 decades old, white conservatives turning waterhoses on nonviolent protesters was news. Now, in the era of the internet and youtube, the concept of "reporting on it" has shifted. That's where threads like this come in.

Reported on to whoever watches the damn box in the corner that pumps out incessant bile and discordant trash 99% of the time.

You tel people what happened with relevant background. That's what new used to be - it's what news should be.

News is facts. Not opinions. If people want opinions they can watch simon effin cowell and his freak parade of no hope misfits who all have an opinion on everything.

Factor in the internet - news orgs should cram their sites with news. Stuff that happened, not get it confused with garbage about what people think happened, junk law stories and assorted other crap.

There are people who don't care about what happens in the world - they watch America's Got Talent. There are people who care about honest sourcing - they don't read hot air. There are people who care about integrity - they don't watch fox for their news.

84 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:03:38pm

Uh oh.

85 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:04:02pm

Right wing spammer, denied.

86 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:04:11pm

re: #81 divingnut

Enjoy your stay.

87 laZardo  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:04:42pm

re: #82 Charles

WATCH OUT, HERE IT C-

oh too late

88 Big Joe  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:05:47pm

I bet conservatives are beside themselves over the institution of Sharia law in Iraq and Afghanistan, too.

89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:07:37pm

re: #80 Decatur Deb

As a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, I have been to their gatherings. I spoke at the 2001 SCV convention in Lafayette, La. The Military Order of the Stars and Bars presented me with a battle flag and a wooden canteen like the ones my ancestors carried.[7]

Oh sure, there are plenty of dumb conservative bigots, who were Irish Roman Catholics fighting for slave ownership.

Some of the most virulent bigots in 19th-20th San Francisco were also Irish Roman Catholic conservatives, with something to prove.

He's going to have to learn to share a stage with H.K. Edgerton, though. Lol HK is one of my favorites. I'm starting to put Herman Cain in the same boat, though Mr. Edgerton is far better at the street theatre.

90 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:07:45pm

So let's see. If we use some wingnut logic here. According to the wingnuts, Gaddafi's fall had nothing to do with the president. However, after hearing a report that Islamists might be taking control of the Libyan government the wingnuts suddenly decide that the president was the cause of this -- thus implying that he did have something to do with Gaddafi's downfall.

91 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:10:14pm

re: #90 Gus 802

He does manage to be both a godless marxist and a supporter of Sharia law, so yeah.

92 Kronocide  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:10:24pm

re: #90 Gus 802

Anything bad, Obama's fault.
Anything good, not Obama's fault.

Two men enter, one man leave.

93 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:13:45pm

Stories the media cover don't make me half as mad as how they are covered, by whom and to what end.

Badly.
Halfwits.
As a lead in to a movie.

94 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:14:17pm

re: #89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Seen Edgerton's shtick before--I think he's all about t-shirt sales.

95 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:16:58pm

G'nite people.

The world sucks, etc, etc.
No point trying to change it, better our enemies are allowed self promotion than actual news be allowed to be reported.

96 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:17:51pm

re: #95 wozzablog

G'nite people.

The world sucks, etc, etc.
No point trying to change it, better our enemies are allowed self promotion than actual news be allowed to be reported.

Um...I suppose this is the wrong time to try to play Pollyanna?

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:17:56pm

re: #83 wozzablog

Reported on to whoever watches the damn box in the corner that pumps out incessant bile and discordant trash 99% of the time.

Ok, so I send an email to my cousin in GA who believes Bill O'Reilly, when he says that liberals are taking the Christ out of Christmas, to tell her that isn't true.

Say the NYT comes out with a report that says the same and posts it on nyt.com? Job done? Or did you mean a different type of reporting?

98 Kragar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:19:02pm

re: #92 BigPapa

Anything bad, Obama's fault.
Anything good, not Obama's fault.

Two men enter, one man leave.

WHO RUN GOP TOWN?

99 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:19:31pm

re: #94 Decatur Deb

Seen Edgerton's shtick before--I think he's all about t-shirt sales.

I think so, too. I also think he's making a mint off of neo-Confderate conservative dupes. I don't think it would take a whole lot of thought -- or even talent -- to do so, though. :/

100 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:20:56pm

re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WHO RUN GOP TOWN?

Image: Big-Fat-Limbaugh.jpg

101 b_sharp  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:21:39pm

re: #97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ok, so I send an email to my cousin in GA who believes Bill O'Reilly, when he says that liberals are taking the Christ out of Christmas, to tell her that isn't true.

Say the NYT comes out with a report that says the same and posts it on nyt.com? Job done? Or did you mean a different type of reporting?

I'm a total skeptic when it comes to O'Really. I don't believe he really exists.

102 Kragar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:21:42pm

re: #100 bratwurst

Image: Big-Fat-Limbaugh.jpg

See, I was picturing Rick Perry running around giving Ron Paul a piggy back ride.

103 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:22:47pm

re: #89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh sure, there are plenty of dumb conservative bigots, who were Irish Roman Catholics fighting for slave ownership.

Some of the most virulent bigots in 19th-20th San Francisco were also Irish Roman Catholic conservatives, with something to prove.

He's going to have to learn to share a stage with H.K. Edgerton, though. Lol HK is one of my favorites. I'm starting to put Herman Cain in the same boat, though Mr. Edgerton is far better at the street theatre.

[Video]

Louisiana Native Guard? LOL, they were a UNION regiment!

104 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:23:04pm

re: #97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ok, so I send an email to my cousin in GA who believes Bill O'Reilly, when he says that liberals are taking the Christ out of Christmas, to tell her that isn't true.

Say the NYT comes out with a report that says the same and posts it on nyt.com? Job done? Or did you mean a different type of reporting?

Family decency and respect for peoples mental heath encoourages that we should steer people away from horsehockey.

I'm talking about actual honest to good ness news reporting about where the teaparty came from, about OWS, about Libya's disparate groups and the destruction of it's middle class and politics leaving religion being the only vaguely unifying force - etc etc. So people don't get bit on the backside when related stories break by not having any prior knowledge despite watching "news" 24hrs a day.

105 Kronocide  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:25:41pm

I wondering what those necklaces baseball players are wearing are. Faaaking Magnets!

But they have titanium in them.... not magnetic. WTF?

106 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:25:54pm

re: #95 wozzablog

G'nite people.

The world sucks, etc, etc.
No point trying to change it, better our enemies are allowed self promotion than actual news be allowed to be reported.

False dilemma. The broadcast/cable "news" and "reporting" situation is more complicated than saying "the news isn't being reported"

To understand the issue of redress and fairness, you have to know something about the Communications Act of 1934 and the last major revision, the Telecommunications Act of 1996. The latter is what gave us Fox News, and the current phenomenon of "news" that isn't really "news" but just bigoted opinion, flowing out from the television.

If you don't understand this history, you'll never understand why someone like Pat Buchanan persists for years on MSNBC, while Lisa Simeone gets canned from NPR.

107 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:25:57pm

Night.

Everyone has their own button, mine is the news media.

When it gets pressed i'm not a great contributer.

108 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:26:10pm

Andy Borowitz:

I'm now worried that my Halloween costume, Slutty Gaddafi,
will be in poor taste.

109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:27:49pm

re: #103 Alouette

Louisiana Native Guard? LOL, they were a UNION regiment!

Opportunists come in every stripe.

110 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:28:07pm

re: #106 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

False dilemma. The broadcast/cable "news" and "reporting" situation is more complicated than saying "the news isn't being reported"

To understand the issue of redress and fairness, you have to know something about the Communications Act of 1934 and the last major revision, the Telecommunications Act of 1996. The latter is what gave us Fox News, and the current phenomenon of "news" that isn't really "news" but just bigoted opinion, flowing out from the television.

If you don't understand this history, you'll never understand why someone like Pat Buchanan persists for years on MSNBC, while Lisa Simeone gets canned from NPR.

Oh, I know why it happened the conglomeration of news agencies and nmedia owners, mass media area market buyouts, laxing regulation, the breakdown of the fairness doctrine, not withstanding - it's a crock of shit and needs changing.

111 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:28:29pm

re: #108 jaunte

Andy Borowitz:

When, and under what circumstances, would "Slutty Gadaffi" be a classy costume?

112 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:29:11pm

re: #111 EmmmieG

"Now worried" being the key phrase...

113 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:30:00pm

re: #111 EmmmieG

When, and under what circumstances, would "Slutty Gadaffi" be a classy costume?

too soon, too soon.

114 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:31:02pm

I felt less informed about America when i was in America the other year.

The native media left me feeling utterly out of touch and totally remote to anything happening beyond a local level.

115 b_sharp  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:31:21pm

re: #111 EmmmieG

When, and under what circumstances, would "Slutty Gadaffi" be a classy costume?

How about zombie Ghadafi?

116 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:32:13pm

re: #115 b_sharp

How about zombie Ghadafi?

I'm just thinking that *adult* Halloween costumes come in

a. Kind of tacky
b. More or less tacky
c. Really tacky
and
d. How much time did you spend on that?

117 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:32:30pm

re: #111 EmmmieG

I think it might be hard to tell the difference between the "Slutty Gadaffi" and "Regular Gadaffi" costume.

118 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:34:27pm

re: #116 EmmmieG

I'm just thinking that *adult* Halloween costumes come in

a. Kind of tacky
b. More or less tacky
c. Really tacky
and
d. How much time did you spend on that?

We decided the 4 girls in the office (moi included) were gonna be witches. Buying our hats on Sunday night on sale.

119 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:34:51pm

Laters.

Need sleep, work again tomorrow. Hurrah. Kind of.

120 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:35:52pm

re: #118 Stanley Sea

We decided the 4 girls in the office (moi included) were gonna be witches. Buying our hats on Sunday night on sale.

I'm going as Goodwife Betsy. It's my colonial outfit that I made for a class.

121 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:39:00pm

re: #110 wozzablog

Oh, I know why it happened the conglomeration of news agencies and nmedia owners, mass media area market buyouts, laxing regulation, the breakdown of the fairness doctrine, not withstanding - it's a crock of shit and needs changing.

No argument there; it's needed changing since the new implementation in 1996. I'm just saying that getting rid of Pat Buchanan on MSNBC via the regulation argument isn't going to happen tomorrow. I'm not even convinced it should, given the stultifying amounts of denial that people like that articulate the views of a large part of the populace. His presence on MSNBC reminds us of the prevalence of those views, despite conservatives' dishonest attempts to distance themselves from them.

But -- again, this is my personal view -- even if he should be regulated off of MNNBC, good luck, because you have to strike down parts of the Telecomm Act of 96 first. That's a very, very long haul. Fine by me -- I'm in for very long hauls.

122 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:39:53pm

re: #33 jaunte

OK Buchanan, Ellis Island photo quiz

White, or non-white?

How about now?

Are strange tribal tatts ok?

What about traditional head-coverings for females?

Aw, come on! You know Slavic people don't count as real people. If they were real people, they would have had land of their own, instead of forcing Hitler to clear them off land that clearly belonged to Germany!

/Pat Buchanan 'logic'

123 Surabaya Stew  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:39:56pm

Appropriately enough,the Political Cesspool is the featured article on Wikipedia today. Quite an interesting read.

124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:42:03pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

/Pat Buchanan 'logic'

"White people" is the slipperiest, most flexible category in America. Ask the Know Nothing conservatives who german-baited the Germanics, long before Hitler ever entered the picture.

This is why we laugh at white conservatism.

125 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:43:15pm

re: #123 Surabaya Stew

Appropriately enough,the Political Cesspool is the featured article on Wikipedia today. Quite an interesting read.

And at this very moment, racist revisionists are trying to rewrite the article to portray 'Political Cesspool' as "brave truth-tellers".

126 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:43:46pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

And at this very moment, racist revisionists are trying to rewrite the article to portray 'Political Cesspool' as "brave truth-tellers".

Wiki-watching is entertaining.

127 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:45:18pm

re: #123 Surabaya Stew

Appropriately enough,the Political Cesspool is the featured article on Wikipedia today. Quite an interesting read.

"In 2007, Edwards was part of a panel that appeared on CNN's Paula Zahn Now, along with Roland S. Martin and Jesse Lee Peterson. The purpose was to discuss racial segregation in American cities. He told Zahn that white children should seek out those who share "the same values and traditions and heroes," and that "forced integration" was a "march toward totalitarianism." "

Yep - white conservatism, 2.0, no different than the White Citizens Councils, 1955. They had no problem whatsoever when the government "forced bused" nonwhite children all over creation to stop them from attending "white" schools.

Still don't, either.

128 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:45:26pm

re: #124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The Know-Nothings have no connection to post-WWII conservatism. But you'll try to tie them to conservatism anyway, in keeping with your "conservatives are to blame for all the ills of the world" schtick.

129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:47:41pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

And at this very moment, racist revisionists are trying to rewrite the article to portray 'Political Cesspool' as "brave truth-tellers".

The Political Cesspool isn't all that different from mainstream white conservatism.

Watching white conservatives with the same views trying to distance yourself from them is hilarious.

130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:49:36pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

The Know-Nothings have no connection to post-WWII conservatism.

Know-Nothing anti-immigrant sentiment and violence is directly connected to anti-immigrant violence and rhetoric, today.

So is their white supremacy and western Euro bigotry.

131 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:51:27pm
The Whig candidate for mayor of Philadelphia was editor Robert T. Conrad, soon revealed as a Know Nothing; he promised to crack down on crime, close saloons on Sundays, and to appoint only native-born Americans to office.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That does sound kind of familiar.

132 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:54:27pm

re: #116 EmmmieG

LOL! I was in a new flower shop this weekend, and they have a "backroom" of kinky! Some really lovely corset type costumes. Hmm, I wonder if they'll get marked down!

133 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:55:02pm

re: #132 Floral Giraffe

LOL! I was in a new flower shop this weekend, and they have a "backroom" of kinky! Some really lovely corset type costumes. Hmm, I wonder if they'll get marked down!

Not until after Halloween.

134 engineer cat  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:55:42pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

The Know-Nothings have no connection to post-WWII conservatism.

the know nothings have nothing in common with decent conservatives

but decent people have lost control of conservatism and it has long been taking advantage of the strain of barely concealed racism in american society

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:55:53pm

re: #131 jaunte

That does sound kind of familiar.

Know Nothings from the 1800s, white nationalists of today.

Someone please tell me exactly where Political Cesspool differs from the Confederate flagwavers in today's Republican Party?

From Surabya Stew's wiki link in 193:

The United States government should be independent of any international organization of governments and American law should not be imposed by organizations such as the United Nations.

America would not be as prosperous, ruggedly individualistic, and a land of opportunity if the founding stock were not Europeans.

Since family is the foundation of any strong society, we are against feminism, abortion, and primitivism.

Private property rights are inviolable. They come from our God-given right to life.

We wish to revive the White birthrate above replacement level fertility and beyond to grow the percentage of Whites in the world relative to other races.

Issues such as education, environmental law, and police should be decentralized down to the lowest level to insure natural rights and efficiency.

Secession is a right of all people and individuals. It was successful in 1776 and this show honors those who tried to make it successful in 1865.

We are cultural conservatives because we have certain morals to which we adhere. We are against homosexuality, vulgarity, loveless sex, and masochism.

We wish for American government to stop interfering politically, militarily, and socially outside of the borders of the United States of America. We want non-interventionism.[6]

While they're at it, they can also explain how this differs from Anders, except that he's not in the USA.

136 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:56:58pm

re: #121 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No argument there; it's needed changing since the new implementation in 1996. I'm just saying that getting rid of Pat Buchanan on MSNBC via the regulation argument isn't going to happen tomorrow. I'm not even convinced it should, given the stultifying amounts of denial that people like that articulate the views of a large part of the populace. His presence on MSNBC reminds us of the prevalence of those views, despite conservatives' dishonest attempts to distance themselves from them.

But -- again, this is my personal view -- even if he should be regulated off of MNNBC, good luck, because you have to strike down parts of the Telecomm Act of 96 first. That's a very, very long haul. Fine by me -- I'm in for very long hauls.

Regulation should not determine who gets hired - regulation of the medias practices in the UK is retroactive.
Hire someone -let them speak themselves into trouble - hating on women, gays or people of colour. Then prepare to be told that that person has breached standards of common decency (which is why afterall, the media is in this hideous state) - NPRs broadcasting code is a good one.

The way around that is to not hire these people at all and instead invite folks with outlandish views to put them across - having in house racists, homophobes and sexists as institutional assets is just anathema to me.

If people can't make a living being Glenn Beck fear monger, conspiracy nut or racist - people like Gelnn Beck can go on youtube and get their hate fix there in there own echochamber of links and sublinks. The public discourse is then better.
Do people honestly believe freaks like him on television are an asset to the discourse?. If so, fine, but i then resign as someone who gives a shit about anything.

Inviting batshit members of the GOP to talk about the views of bat shit members of the GOP is great, fine, employing one who is so utterly contrary to just about every decent standard of discourse to breach each of those standards is unconscionable.

137 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 7:58:24pm

re: #131 jaunte

That does sound kind of familiar.

And of course, the Know Nothings, like a bunch of other only-in-america conservative institutions lost their crap bickering over whether or not it was acceptable to own other people as private property.

Dumb bigots.

138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:00:09pm

re: #136 wozzablog

Regulation should not determine who gets hired - regulation of the medias practices in the UK is retroactive.
Hire someone -let them speak themselves into trouble - hating on women, gays or people of colour. Then prepare to be told that that person has breached standards of common decency (which is why afteral, the media is in this fucking state) - NPRs broadcasting code is a good one.

The way around that is to not hire these people at all and instead invite folks with outlandish views to put them across - having in house racists, homophobes and sexists as institutional assets is just anathema to me.

If people can't make a living being Glenn Beck fear monger, conspiracy nut or racist - people like Gelnn Beck can go on youtube and get their hate fix there in there own echochamber of links and sublinks. The public discourse is then better.
Do people honestly believe freaks like him on television are an asset to the duiscourse?. If so, fine, but i then resign as someone who gives a shit about anything.

Inviting batshit members of the GOP to talk about the views of bat shit members of the GOP is great, fine, employing one who is so utterly contrary to just about every decent standard of discourse to breach each of those standards is unconscionable.

I don't agree [eek - edit: DISagree] with any of your sentiments. The question is, though, under the Telecomm Act of 1996, how do you regulate Pat off of MSNBC?

139 darthstar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:02:35pm
140 engineer cat  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:03:51pm

Since family is the foundation of any strong society, we are against feminism, abortion, and primitivism.

as in grandma moses or a phase of picasso?

141 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:04:14pm

re: #139 darthstar

OWS vs Teabaggers
Share it.

Image: 302541_234192139973281_112713662121130_639007_387605784_n.jpg

They're coming for our guns money!

142 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:07:28pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

The Know-Nothings have no connection to post-WWII conservatism.

Except in as much as you yourself have connected their anti immigrant policies with modern conservatism.

No, the immigration system won't be fixed anytime soon. Things are far too polarized for that to happen.

Which is also why I don't want Arab immigration right now. I want the memory of Bush the Younger to recede a bit more and give the GOP time to get a bit more sane.

I wish you could see how pathological this kind of thing sounds from the outside. You admit that your party is something less than sane, yet you still remain with them. Not only that, but you actually advocate acquiescing to their bigotry.

If you want to limit things to post WWII then try explaining why Strom Thurmond left the Democrats and joined the GOP after the failure of his epic filibuster in 1964? You've already identified the reason, your party isn't sane. It wasn't the "memory of Bush the Younger" that caused this, it's been an endemic trait, a defining characteristic for the better part of the last half century.

143 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:08:13pm

re: #138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't agree with any of your sentiments. The question is, though, under the Telecomm Act of 1996, how do you regulate Pat off of MSNBC?

I'm honestly not surprised.
There are topics on which very very few people if any will agree with me on, believing that a world where Glenn Beck has a mainstream show is a better one than one in which he didn't is fine, it's your call to believe that.

I'm not arguing from a position of "this is the discourse, these are the remedies available and this is how we accomplish broadcasting Xanadu from a crock of historical shit".

Pat stays - great. Everything he represents stays in the main stream, similarly great.

Private companies hire these people and can let them go, i would prefer they let them go.

There is only one way the discourse is going.

144 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:09:13pm

re: #134 engineer dog

the know nothings have nothing in common with decent conservatives

but decent people have lost control of conservatism and it has long been taking advantage of the strain of barely concealed racism in american society

Nativism, mainstreamed into the presidential race:
Herman Cain: ‘I Will Not’ Appoint A Muslim In My Administration

145 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:09:29pm

re: #139 darthstar

Baloney.

Tea Party: Members have jobs, which why rallies are held on the weekend. Rallies obey the law so that no one needs to be arrested. Clearer agenda, and an understanding of private property. Much better than OWS, and I stand by that.

146 prairiefire  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:09:34pm

re: #143 wozzablog

Discourse by its nature goes back and forth.

147 windsagio  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:10:42pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

an understanding of private property?

lol

148 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:13:32pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

The Know-Nothings have no connection to post-WWII conservatism.

Post WW2 conservatism:

Image: 4395024632_2c485a3299.jpg

Image: prod_3552.jpg

Image: death-to-all-race-mixers.jpg

Image: CitizensCouncils.png

149 laZardo  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:13:59pm

re: #139 darthstar

Strictly as a point of observation, the whole "no leaders-decision by consensus" makes it understandable why OWS attracts anarchists. >_>

150 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:14:37pm

re: #146 prairiefire

Discourse by its nature goes back and forth.

The tone of discourse in the national sphere is headed down.

National network employee on his own network - "the president is a racist", 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago - is there sanction from the employer?

151 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:15:10pm

We need to be patient with Libya. People were predicting doomsday scenarios for Iraq many times in the past. Many people thought the work was finished in Egypt with the capitulation of Mubarak.

Look at our own history post-revolutionary war. No, this is not to compare our foundational government with Sharia but to reflect upon the upheavals and conflicts we experienced as a nation not the least of which included a civil war with nearly 400,000 dead. The women's suffrage movement and their right to vote. Prohibition. Jim Crow laws and the civil rights movement.

And we thought it was a perfect government in 1776 didn't we?

We're still going through our growing pains.

The majority of Middle East and North African nation incorporates some form of Sharia in the their laws and to varying degrees. Our notorious ally, Saudi Arabia, employes a very severe form of Sharia. Today, the NTC leader, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, said, "We as a Muslim nation have taken Islamic sharia as the source of legislation, therefore any law that contradicts the principles of Islam is legally nullified." We still don't know the context of this statement. They plan on holding elections in next year. There will no doubt be internal opposition to Sharia law.

152 Interesting Times  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:15:14pm

re: #135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Someone please tell me exactly where Political Cesspool differs from the Confederate flagwavers in today's Republican Party?

They don't:

The United States government should be independent of any international organization of governments and American law should not be imposed by organizations such as the United Nations.

Evidenced by New World Order schtick and "Global warming is a conspiracy to take away US sovereignty!!1!" crap. To say nothing of always accusing Obama of going on "apology tours."

America would not be as prosperous, ruggedly individualistic, and a land of opportunity if the founding stock were not Europeans.

Evidenced by anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican sentiments on the right today.

Since family is the foundation of any strong society, we are against feminism, abortion, and primitivism.

Iowa FTW!

Private property rights are inviolable. They come from our God-given right to life.

Wasn't there a Tea Party guy who wanted to restrict voting to property owners?

We wish to revive the White birthrate above replacement level fertility and beyond to grow the percentage of Whites in the world relative to other races.

Too many white wimmins are abortin' our nation's future!!1!

Issues such as education, environmental law, and police should be decentralized down to the lowest level to insure natural rights and efficiency.

Abolish the EPA!!1!

Secession is a right of all people and individuals. It was successful in 1776 and this show honors those who tried to make it successful in 1865.

Rick Perry tends to agree.

We are cultural conservatives because we have certain morals to which we adhere. We are against homosexuality, vulgarity, loveless sex, and masochism.*

*Unless it manifests itself as poor/middle-class members of the GOP base continually voting against their own best interests.

We wish for American government to stop interfering politically, militarily, and socially outside of the borders of the United States of America. We want non-interventionism.

RON PAUL!!!1!!

153 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:16:57pm

re: #143 wozzablog

I'm honestly not surprised.
There are topics on which very very few people if any will agree with me on, believing that a world where Glenn Beck has a mainstream show is a better one than one in which he didn't is fine, it's your call to believe that.

Reread the post - the word "agree" was an error. Put a different way, I agree with your sentiments.

The question remains, though. Given that we operate under the Telecomm Act of 1996 and not the way we wish it was, what is your solution to regulating Pat off of MSNBC, a cable company.

Or, regulating what he says while on MSNBC.

154 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:19:33pm

re: #142 goddamnedfrank

Except in as much as you yourself have connected their anti immigrant policies with modern conservatism.

I wish you could see how pathological this kind of thing sounds from the outside. You admit that your party is something less than sane, yet you still remain with them. Not only that, but you actually advocate acquiescing to their bigotry.

If you want to limit things to post WWII then try explaining why Strom Thurmond left the Democrats and joined the GOP after the failure of his epic filibuster in 1964? You've already identified the reason, your party isn't sane. It wasn't the "memory of Bush the Younger" that caused this, it's been an endemic trait, a defining characteristic for the better part of the last half century.

Or, why his party waves a slavery flag from 150 years ago.

Dark Falcon is so full of shit.

155 prairiefire  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:20:59pm

re: #150 wozzablog

The tone of discourse in the national sphere is headed down.

National network employee on his own network - "the president is a racist", 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago - is there sanction from the employer?

Too many sanctions is too much editing. It's either balls to the wall freedom of speech or it's not.

156 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:21:43pm

And notice what he said too:

We as a Muslim nation have taken Islamic sharia as the source of legislation, therefore any law that contradicts the principles of Islam is legally nullified.

First notice that he said "any law" which implies that it won't be a direct reading from the Koran. It will be a law created by men using the principles of sharia. Not sharia itself. Many people also use the word principles loosely. Seeing it more as a "general guideline." It's like following the principles of music or any study. It can either be a strict following or a loose interpretation.

157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:23:35pm

re: #152 publicityStunted

They don't:

Evidenced by New World Order schtick and "Global warming is a conspiracy to take away US sovereignty!!1!" crap. To say nothing of always accusing Obama of going on "apology tours."

Evidenced by anti-Muslim and anti-Mexican sentiments on the right today.

Iowa FTW!

Wasn't there a Tea Party guy who wanted to restrict voting to property owners?

Too many white wimmins are abortin' our nation's future!!1!

Abolish the EPA!!1!

Rick Perry tends to agree.

*Unless it manifests itself as poor/middle-class members of the GOP base continually voting against their own best interests.

RON PAUL!!!1!!

The only difference I see is rank and file conservative dupes, desperate to be thought of as "mainstream" by everyone else, trying to distance themselves from the admitted Confederates.

They've never fooled anyone in the past with this bullshit. I'm not sure why they think they are fooling anyone, today.

158 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:28:20pm

re: #153 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Reread the post - the word "agree" was an error. Put a different way, I agree with your sentiments.

The question remains, though. Given that we operate under the Telecomm Act of 1996 and not the way we wish it was, what is your solution to regulating Pat off of MSNBC, a cable company.

Or, regulating what he says while on MSNBC.

Ok x

Though, I adore how we parse the broadcasters themselves of all responsibility from what their employees say.
Like I said, NPR has a good code - I woud like that should be applied by the FCC across all news nets. (yeah, i know the fcc doesn't regulate cable, but let a man dream).

There is zero sense of responsbillity for what goes on the air. People employed by networks can want whole civilisations wiped out - in Britain that just doesn't happen without the employer (out of embarrassment as much as anything) doing something about it.

There is no shame. There is no corporate responsibility. There seems to be no limits - which is great in first amendment terms until one remembers that the employer can act against an employee.
The reason employers don't act is the love the controversy, they want the media and it's personalities feeding off itself.

Thought experiment -
If I am employed by a news organisation and mount a desk and say "kill all muslim leaders and convert all of them to christianianty or judaism or Zoroastrianism" - i would expect to be fired. Thats the viewpoint I come from this as.

I believe myself to be relatively rational with that statement.It's not about the first amendment, it;s about fundamentals of self restraint, decency and commonality that have been lost - and the loss of which people celebrate as first amendment victories.

159 Interesting Times  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:28:37pm

re: #147 windsagio

an understanding of private property?

Why of course! Just listen to the lovely words of this illustrious Tea Party gentleman:

The Founding Fathers originally said, they put certain restrictions on who gets the right to vote. It wasn’t you were just a citizen and you got to vote. Some of the restrictions, you know, you obviously would not think about today. But one of those was you had to be a property owner. And that makes a lot of sense, because if you’re a property owner you actually have a vested stake in the community. If you’re not a property owner, you know, I’m sorry but property owners have a little bit more of a vested interest in the community than non-property owners.

Such understanding! Such a sparkling clear agenda! *swoons*

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:29:26pm

re: #156 Gus 802

And notice what he said too:

We as a Muslim nation have taken Islamic sharia as the source of legislation, therefore any law that contradicts the principles of Islam is legally nullified.

First notice that he said "any law" which implies that it won't be a direct reading from the Koran. It will be a law created by men using the principles of sharia. Not sharia itself. Many people also use the word principles loosely. Seeing it more as a "general guideline." It's like following the principles of music or any study. It can either be a strict following or a loose interpretation.

I'm just considering how I would take to that if a similar explanation was given about a Biblically-based law.

161 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:30:14pm

No bites.

Well, my sister told me she think I look like Orson Wells.

I told her that her socks looked belligerent.

162 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:31:44pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm just considering how I would take to that if a similar explanation was given about a Biblically-based law.

Well that's what the American right has been trying to say was the foundation of the Constitution. In not so many words. The Catholic church certainly took hold of Poland to an even greater extent after the fall of the Soviet Union. The Russian Orthodox Church in Russia. Sergey can check that. ;)

163 R.M, Ramallo  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:32:14pm

re: #157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They're only fooling themselves.
I read FrumForum on occasion, and the regular posters, after all Frum's explanations, excuses, and rationalizations, can't figure out why he still identifies as a conservative.

164 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:32:35pm

Anonymous takes down child porn site

Pedophiles connecting to a concealed child pornography site got an unwelcome surprise last week, courtesy of the hacktivist group Anonymous. Lolita City, a child pornography site run on over a concealed “darknet,” has been taken down by Anonymous members, and account details of 1,589 users from the site’s database were posted as evidence.

The takedown is part of Anonymous’ Operation Darknet, an anti-child-pornography effort aimed at thwarting child pornographers operating on on the Tor network. Anonymous’ attack was focused on a hosting service called Freedom Hosting, which the group claims was the largest host of child pornography on Tor’s anonymized network. “By taking down Freedom Hosting, we are eliminating 40+ child pornography websites,” Anonymous claimed in its statement. “Among these is Lolita City, one of the largest child pornography websites to date, containing more than 100GB of child pornography.”

165 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:34:26pm

re: #163 OhNoZombies!

They're only fooling themselves.
I read FrumForum on occasion, and the regular posters, after all Frum's explanations, excuses, and rationalizations, can't figure out why he still identifies as a conservative.

Need for self identifcation.

Independents get killed by this media. You have to be selling a view to stand anychance of being asked to do anything.

He could have a great gig as an independent analyst, but they barely exist as a species anymore.

166 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:34:35pm

re: #161 Gus 802

No bites.

Well, my sister told me she think I look like Orson Wells.

Which one?

167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:35:25pm

re: #158 wozzablog

Ok but I'm not making a first amendment argument, I'm talking about the state of cable tv. Telecomm Act of 1996. That's what we have to work with.

I keep bringing up the Acts because you mentioned the regulation of media hiring standards being a complete farce (#58). Well, it is, and it isn't. Cable isn't "regulated" like broadcast is, due to the Telecomm 96.

The issue is this: ok, so Pat Buchanan went on Political Cesspool this week. What does the listening "public" who objects do about it?

168 laZardo  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:35:27pm

re: #164 negativ

Anonymous takes down child porn site

Knowing Anonymous, they just want all the "CP" for themselves. q;

169 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:40:49pm

re: #167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ok but I'm not making a first amendment argument, I'm talking about the state of cable tv. Telecomm Act of 1996. That's what we have to work with.

I keep bringing up the Acts because you mentioned the regulation of media hiring standards being a complete farce (#58). Well, it is, and it isn't. Cable isn't "regulated" like broadcast is, due to the Telecomm 96.

The issue is this: ok, so Pat Buchanan went on Political Cesspool this week. What does the listening "public" who objects do about it?

Concerted viewership effort against MSNBC. Boycott if needs be. Emails, letters, faxes - same ol' same ol'.
Ask for a reasonable right wing voice that can analyse the demographic of neo-confederacy without being part of it.

The Acts are worse than useless unless it's in favour of increased media ownsership integration. That's all telecoms acts are used for now.

170 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:41:01pm

re: #151 Gus 802

I'd be more patient with it if this was 1776 and I had the benefit of hindsight.

Sharia-lite doesn't get my support, never will. And by that I mean actual "Sharia-lite", not this "hey, there's a mosque down in Whutchahootie, let's put anti-Sharia measures on the ballot" bullcrap.

171 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:42:04pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Baloney.

Tea Party: Members have jobs, which why rallies are held on the weekend. Rallies obey the law so that no one needs to be arrested. Clearer agenda, and an understanding of private property. Much better than OWS, and I stand by that.

The Tea Party is universally employed? Because I've seen more than a few on Hoverounds and looking past their expiration date.

And what exactly does it prove that the Tea Party "obeyed the law"? Personally, I consider it an irony that TPers claim to be acting in the spirit of an unlawful act by allowing the government to tell them when, where, and in what manner they may protest.

Finally, if there's one thing that's "clear" about the Tea Party, it's that they universally hate Pres. Obama. Everything else is negotiable, such that you can have Paulians and defense hawks in the same crowd, both proclaiming to be a member of the Tea Party.

172 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:42:21pm

re: #164 negativ

Anonymous? They probably simply know the site exists (or maybe even made it up, I dunno) and pretend to "do something" for good PR.

173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:43:02pm

re: #169 wozzablog

Well again, I agree with the sentiment, and the method. But that's very different from regulation.

174 R.M, Ramallo  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:44:42pm

re: #165 wozzablog

Could be. It makes for a jarring read though. On the one hand, he seems absolutely disgusted by the newest crop of GOPers, and he'll manage a left- handed approval of Obama's short term economic plans. On the other hand, liberals are the Devil -- Ronald Reagan !!

175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:46:13pm

re: #171 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The Tea Party is universally employed? Because I've seen more than a few on Hoverounds and looking past their expiration date.

Impossible! Every conservative comes out of the womb self-made, and self-sufficient.

I mean, um, every conservative is instilled with the proper work ethic and respect by authority by their morally upstanding parents, and role-model communities.

The Tea Party is God's Favorites, only upset because the unfavorites have usurped their rightful position to rule! Who can blame the blameless them!!

And what exactly does it prove that the Tea Party "obeyed the law"? Personally, I consider it an irony that TPers claim to be acting in the spirit of an unlawful act by allowing the government to tell them when, where, and in what manner they may protest.

...let alone advocating overthrow of the federal government, just like every other good confederate footsoldier.

Stupid conservative dupes.

176 prairiefire  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:46:49pm

re: #167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The "public" forms and opinion for or against Buchanan. I think the public discourse is considerably more mild than it used to be, overall. PC attitudes push back strongly in the 70's and 80's. Now there's been a backlash against "PC".

177 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:47:36pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Baloney.

Tea Party: Members have jobs, which why rallies are held on the weekend. Rallies obey the law so that no one needs to be arrested. Clearer agenda, and an understanding of private property. Much better than OWS, and I stand by that.

Oh please. I know you're defending solely out of knee-jerk team loyalty, but seriously, claiming the Tea Party as your 'team' is a first for you, and probably not some place you want to go.

Members have jobs: I doubt very much that all those retirees shouting about government out of Medicare have day jobs.

Clearer agenda: Sure, if you're saying that incoherent rage against Democrats is an 'agenda'. Otherwise, complaining about taxes when taxes are at a historic 50-year low doesn't seem very clear. Complaining about spending the moment the President became black doesn't seem very clear either.

Understanding of private property: Wanting to use force of arms to keep the government off your lawn is not an understanding of private property.

178 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:47:44pm

re: #173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well again, I agree with the sentiment, and the method. But that's very different from regulation.

It's different from regulation because at present there is no regulation.

179 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:48:32pm

re: #175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Apropos of nothing, here's the line up of suspects from the latest Nancy Drew game. Recognize anyone?

[Link: www.herinteractive.com...]

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:49:39pm

re: #177 Renaissance_Man

Members have jobs: I doubt very much that all those retirees shouting about government out of Medicare have day jobs.

Yes, a lot of them are retirees, but beyond that, I don't see much evidence that the younger members of the group are more or less likely to be employed, unemployed, or mooching off family members than the average OWSer--except that they say so.

181 Gus  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:49:54pm

re: #170 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'd be more patient with it if this was 1776 and I had the benefit of hindsight.

Sharia-lite doesn't get my support, never will. And by that I mean actual "Sharia-lite", not this "hey, there's a mosque down in Whutchahootie, let's put anti-Sharia measures on the ballot" bullcrap.

No I would never support it either. But we can't poo-poo it too much while we continue to support hyper-sharia states like Saudi Arabia. To a lesser extent Bahrain.

182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:51:40pm

re: #178 wozzablog

It's different from regulation because at present there is no regulation.

The reason we're talking about "regulation" is your #58, though. There is regulation, it just differs from public airwave regulation. Sorry to be circular, but this is why we see Pat and Glenn on cable and not broadcast.

The other part of the equation is advertising, and the cable interests who own other interests that can float keeping Beck around in the wake of a viewer boycott, as Fox did for so long in the states.

None of that has anything to do with regulation, either, I'm just saying there are reasons other than viewer apathy that these people still have a platform on mainstream media.

183 prairiefire  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:54:40pm

Beck has been even further marginalized. He's off of Fox and has far less exposure on his new "TV channel". He has dropped in ratings and the number of radio stations carrying his AM show.

184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:55:03pm

re: #179 EmmmieG

Apropos of nothing, here's the line up of suspects from the latest Nancy Drew game. Recognize anyone?

[Link: www.herinteractive.com...]

I don't. But it does make me glad I didn't grow up in a town like that, brr.

185 R.M, Ramallo  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:55:25pm

re: #182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yep. It's about revenue, and nowadays more conflict equals more viewers.

186 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:55:53pm

re: #184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't. But it does make me glad I didn't grow up in a town like that, brr.

They put a transparently Sarah Palin-esque character in as a suspect. I thought it was hilarious.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:55:53pm

re: #179 EmmmieG

Apropos of nothing, here's the line up of suspects from the latest Nancy Drew game. Recognize anyone?

[Link: www.herinteractive.com...]

Just Ned and George and Bess.

188 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:57:07pm

re: #182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

#58 wasn't a specific call for Pat to be regulated out of the media.

What I would love is for news nets to suffer as great consequences for utterances like "kill them and convert them", "president is racsist" as there are for nip-slips or accidental cursing that the OB truck doesn't catch.

Either have consistency in regualtion or have no regulation at all.

My words were "the regulation is a farce".

The phrase Standards and Practices is without meaning at this point.

The guy off camera who swears is engaging in his first amendment rights......but there are consequences for airing that, not for calls to genocide.

I might need help in that i see a disconnect.

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:57:43pm

re: #186 EmmmieG

They put a transparently Sarah Palin-esque character in as a suspect. I thought it was hilarious.

Brenda or Deirdre? Toni?

190 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 8:59:53pm

re: #189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Brenda or Deirdre? Toni?

Toni. She's a corrupt and rather fake local politician.

Deirdre is (I don't read the books so The Princess had to tell me) a recurring character, which rules her out as the bad guy.

191 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:01:09pm

re: #151 Gus 802

Yes, it takes a lot of time to heal, and bad relationship, and a Dictatorship is one BAD relationship. Also, Democracy isn't easy, much less to form one.

192 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:01:42pm

re: #182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

and my58 was in reply to my 48 which didn't mention Pat at all.

193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:02:43pm

re: #188 wozzablog

#58 wasn't a specific call for Pat to be regulated out of the media.

What I would love is for news nets to suffer as great consequences for utterances like "kill them and convert them", "president is racsist" as there are for nip-slips or accidental cursing that the OB truck doesn't catch.

Either have consistency in regualtion or have no regulation at all.

My words were "the regulation is a farce".

The phrase Standards and Practices is without meaning at this point.

If that's true, it's due in part to the evolution of the technologies themselves. In #182 I was responding to "at present there is no regulation." There is regulation, its just two-tiered regulation based on the media used for content delivery, i.e. cable vs broadcast.

Believe me, every Fox detractor and critic has been frustrated in the same way since about 1998. Viewer boycotts and writing the FCC don't have the same effect in this environment.

194 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:04:21pm

re: #164 negativ

While by no means an Anonymous fan, if they want to go after child poonography/trafficing, I say "have at it".

195 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:05:27pm

re: #179 EmmmieG

Apropos of nothing, here's the line up of suspects from the latest Nancy Drew game. Recognize anyone?

[Link: www.herinteractive.com...]

Chief McGinnis looks like Ron Swanson from Parks & Rec.

196 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:06:34pm

re: #192 wozzablog

and my58 was in reply to my 48 which didn't mention Pat at all.

Pat, Glenn, Coulter...pick one, the issue is still the same. None of the heinous stuff they've said, tmk, has been on broadcast.

Coulter's "kill them all and convert them to xianity" was first stated in a Townhall column; also tmk, she got canned for it. Didn't stop her from saying even more heinous stuff in subsequent years.

197 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:07:03pm

re: #195 goddamnedfrank

Chief McGinnis looks like Ron Swanson from Parks & Rec.

Bess & George change every time they have the two of them in a game, and if Frank and Joe show up, they change, too. Frank & Joe also once got their own game.

198 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:11:46pm

The IndianapLOLis Colts.

199 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:12:57pm

re: #193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If that's true, it's due in part to the evolution of the technologies themselves. In #182 I was responding to "at present there is no regulation." There is regulation, its just two-tiered regulation based on the media used for content delivery, i.e. cable vs broadcast.

Believe me, every Fox detractor and critic has been frustrated in the same way since about 1978. Viewer boycotts and writing the FCC don't have the same effect in this environment.

I will say again, there is no fear of consequence. And when there is no consequence it all goes to hell. Which it has done.

200 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:15:25pm

re: #196 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Pat, Glenn, Coulter...pick one, the issue is still the same. None of the heinous stuff they've said, tmk, has been on broadcast.

Which is why the situation is a farce. Which was the point of my 48/58 and which we seem to have been arguing in circles.

It's a farce.

201 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:20:22pm

Night.

202 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:27:58pm

Ry Cooder & The Moula Banda Rhythm Aces

Down In Mississippi

203 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:28:34pm

re: #85 Charles

Right wing spammer, denied.

Shucks, I missed it...

///

204 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:29:50pm

re: #203 talon_262

Shucks, I missed it...

///

lol... me too...

howdy all

205 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:30:00pm

re: #100 bratwurst

Image: Big-Fat-Limbaugh.jpg

Man, he's really let himself go, if that's a recent pic of Rush...not like I give two shits though.

206 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:33:39pm

re: #205 talon_262

Jabba the Hut, let himself go....

207 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:33:59pm

re: #205 talon_262

Man, he's really let himself go, if that's a recent pic of Rush...not like I give two shits though.

is that his neck flaps or his turtle neck? just asking..

//

208 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:42:25pm

concerning this thread..... How much longer until USA leaves behind its racist past... Every time I see us making strides in that direction, shite like this comes happens. Obviously the upswing of racism happened with Obama being elected. Or was it that it was still there but just hidden until Obama? Probably the latter... but that is sad. well the former if so is sad as well...

209 makeitstop  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:43:31pm

I know that we have a tendency to get burnt out and somewhat de-sensitized to some things, but I'm truly aghast at this.

Last month, a Time Warner Cable customer service rep died at her desk. After any unexpected death, people searched for answers, explanations, someone to blame. But in this case, there may have actually been something foul afoot. A local news station reports that after a co-worker began giving CPR to 67-year-old Julia Nelson, a supervisor allegedly told her to stop and "get back on the phone and take care of customers."

There are no words.

210 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:44:07pm

re: #206 Floral Giraffe

Jabba the Hutt, let himself go...

Jabba wasn't fat, he was just big-boned...his momma told him so!

BTW, FTFY ;-P

211 efuseakay  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:50:46pm

re: #9 wozzablog

Couldn't call it Dung Factory for that crowd - too brown.

Albino Dung.

212 blueraven  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:51:45pm

re: #209 makeitstop

I know that we have a tendency to get burnt out and somewhat de-sensitized to some things, but I'm truly aghast at this.

There are no words.

It is sad. But honestly, if I had been the one giving the CPR and was told to quit and get back to work, I would have told that supervisor to fuck right off.
The supervisor is a mean and awful person, but where has the backbone gone?

213 jaunte  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:52:15pm

Gus tweeted this earlier. Limbaugh is really a low piece of shit.

"Lord's Resistance Army are Christians," Limbaugh said. "They are fighting the Muslims in Sudan. And Obama has sent troops, United States troops, to remove them from the battlefield, which means kill them."

"Dear Mr. Limbaugh," Apoko responded in a video message she sent to him.

"My name is Evelyn. I am a former abducted child. My heart breaks when I hear your message about the LRA."

214 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:55:03pm

re: #210 talon_262

Jabba wasn't fat, he was just big-boned...his momma told him so!

Mom, Get me some cheesy poofs...

215 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 9:58:34pm

re: #209 makeitstop

I know that we have a tendency to get burnt out and somewhat de-sensitized to some things, but I'm truly aghast at this.

There are no words.

cold heartless bastards.... inhuman douche bags... people in need of serious lessons in the true meaning of life...

here are a few.... somehow, they seen lacking... another example of people who do not value human life. GOP is full of them...

216 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:06:28pm

re: #213 jaunte

"Enough children have died and too many have been displaced," Apoko said in her video. "Every human being deserves peace in their life. We all deserve to live life without fear."

But all these years have gone by and efforts to quell LRA violence have not been successful.

Ironically, it was Limbaugh's statements about the LRA that has cast attention on a neglected conflict, said Jenkins, the spokesman for Invisible Children.

Apoko is still waiting to hear back from Limbaugh.

I hope for your sake, Ms. Apoko, that he does (with a genuine apology), but I wouldn't count on it.

If he or any other high-profile Republicans want to meet with you, run, don't walk, because they only want to use you, not like the LRA did, but they will want to use you for their own nefarious schemes.

Rush, I can't believe I was ever a regular listener to you, but I'm glad I haven't been at least since some time after President Obama's inauguration, because you really are lower than whale shit and just don't give a fuck about anyone you can't exploit.

217 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:16:53pm

re: #100 bratwurst

Image: Big-Fat-Limbaugh.jpg

fat republican is fat

218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:56:48pm

re: #216 talon_262

I stopped listening to Rush 10 years ago (other than the occasional accident). What took you so long?

219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 10:57:14pm

re: #217 WindUpBird

That's not nice.

220 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:00:09pm

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I stopped listening to Rush 10 years ago (other than the occasional accident). What took you so long?

I never did, other than the occasional accident, or when I just wanted to hear what hate was being spewed by the Righties. I do not like to listen to hate. I do not think it helps. I believe it is always wrong.

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:01:36pm
222 engineer cat  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:06:13pm

limbaugh is getting out of date as republican office holders aren't stupid and hateful enuf for him enny more

223 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:08:26pm

re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's not nice.

Neither is Rush. Gloves are off now.

224 Kragar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:09:13pm

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I stopped listening to Rush 10 years ago (other than the occasional accident). What took you so long?

I catch the first few minutes of his show in the morning just to find out what the latest derp is.

225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:11:00pm

re: #208 boxhead

concerning this thread... How much longer until USA leaves behind its racist past... Every time I see us making strides in that direction, shite like this comes happens. Obviously the upswing of racism happened with Obama being elected. Or was it that it was still there but just hidden until Obama? Probably the latter... but that is sad. well the former if so is sad as well...

Probably never.

It's also never been hidden.

226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:11:38pm

re: #224 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can find derp in many places. Don't have to get myself into a specific place at a specific time to do it.

227 Kragar  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:12:41pm

re: #226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I can find derp in many places. Don't have to get myself into a specific place at a specific time to do it.

I only catch him when I'm on the road to work. If the other 9 stations I have are playing crap, Rush gets a few minutes

228 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:13:43pm

re: #227 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh, sure I can see that.

229 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:17:21pm

re: #222 engineer dog

limbaugh is getting out of date as republican office holders aren't stupid and hateful enuf for him enny more

There still seems to be quite a few that, at least play stupid if they truly are not stupid. All the anti science folks fit right in there.

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:21:17pm

Well, let's see if that "sleepy time" constant comment celestial seasoning tea did any good.

231 engineer cat  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:22:01pm

Big-Fat-Limbaure: #229 boxhead

There still seems to be quite a few that, at least play stupid if they truly are not stupid. All the anti science folks fit right in there.

limbaugh seems to insist on a high standard of stupid and hatey, tho...

232 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:24:41pm

re: #225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Probably never.

It's also never been hidden.

Living in Los Angeles, things going on in other parts of USA are not always in the news. But the first time I visited my brother in Louisianna was quite the eye opener. We don't have such hard lines separating where people of different ethnicity live. There they do. It was surreal. But since Obama came on the scene, I hear so much more hate in the media, and in person... really hot and toxic levels of hate... I feel so sad for them choosing to live with that. And I also want to smack them upside the head as well... :)

233 engineer cat  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:25:10pm

being a moron
is not illegal

that must be
why i do it so much

234 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:25:38pm

re: #233 engineer dog

being a moron
is not illegal

that must be
why i do it so much

heheh

235 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:27:36pm

re: #231 engineer dog

Big-Fat-Limbau

limbaugh seems to insist on a high standard of stupid and hatey, tho...

He has his corporate marching orders and follows his script to the tee. That is why he still gets paid lots of money. He gets results.... and USA suffers for it.

236 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:28:24pm

re: #235 boxhead

Excellence In Ex-Wives!

237 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:30:06pm

re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's not nice.

it's nicer than what I was going to say, which was bloated bigot addict genocide-apologist inhuman fuck is inhuman fuck

238 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:30:44pm

re: #232 boxhead

Living in Los Angeles, things going on in other parts of USA are not always in the news. But the first time I visited my brother in Louisianna was quite the eye opener. We don't have such hard lines separating where people of different ethnicity live. There they do. It was surreal. But since Obama came on the scene, I hear so much more hate in the media, and in person... really hot and toxic levels of hate... I feel so sad for them choosing to live with that. And I also want to smack them upside the head as well... :)

Go about 40 miles due east, or south, places where they have never hidden it. You'll meet up with plenty.

239 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:31:18pm

re: #236 WindUpBird

Excellence In Ex-Wives!

How any woman with any sort of good soul could marry him is something I don't understand. SO I am thinking they all must have been gold diggers.

240 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:31:49pm

re: #237 WindUpBird

it's nicer than what I was going to say, which was bloated bigot addict genocide-apologist inhuman fuck is inhuman fuck

Or my version: dumb bigot is dumb bigot.

241 SteveMcG  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:31:50pm

The guys I work with used to listen to Rush, but I don't think he's on in Philadelphia right now. Instead I keep hearing Dennis Prager, Michael Medved and I think Hannity. I always ask them why, because they are most certainly NOT in the target demographic. For starters, they're black, they are most certainly in the lower income brackets (but right now they're actually making more money then I am!). "He's just funny'" is usually the answer. Later in the afternoon, they switch to Al Sharpton. I tease them that I'm gonna slip on all the leaking brains all over the floor. I can't figure these guys out. Another thing I don't get. I have my Itunes playing on the overhead speakers, and every couple of days they love it when David Bowie comes around. About a day later, it's Pink Floyd that gets them to turn off the radio! They've figured out that Carly Simon's on about 2 hours before Bowie, so if it's late in the day they'll ask me to pause it until the morning. Same thing with the Moody Blues.

242 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:34:29pm

re: #238 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Go about 40 miles due east, or south, places where they have never hidden it. You'll meet up with plenty.

yeah.. we call that part of SoCal, Fontucky, (offspring of Kentucky and Fontana) or the 909 (area code).

243 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:39:01pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Baloney.

Tea Party: Members have jobs, which why rallies are held on the weekend. Rallies obey the law so that no one needs to be arrested. Clearer agenda, and an understanding of private property. Much better than OWS, and I stand by that.

It is ironic that the tea folks named themselves after one of the most widely known acts of trespassing and destruction of private property in USA history if they are such law abiding folks.

OK i realize that was before USA, but you know what I mean.. :)

244 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:42:30pm

off topic: Charles needs to add edits to the LGF Master Spy feed.

245 boxhead  Sun, Oct 23, 2011 11:52:14pm

everyone gone? I swear I did shower and used soap!

246 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 12:04:52am

re: #240 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Or my version: dumb bigot is dumb bigot.

I would guess he isn't dumb, he just plays one on the radio. Bigot, yes... whether or not he only plays, doing so is enough.

247 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 12:44:08am

re: #246 boxhead

I would guess he isn't dumb, he just plays one on the radio. Bigot, yes... whether or not he only plays, doing so is enough.

Yeah you're right. He's definitely not dumb.

How about this: rwnj demagogue is rwnj demagogue

lol

248 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 12:46:40am

re: #247 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah you're right. He's definitely not dumb.

How about this: rwnj demagogue is rwnj demagogue

lol

heheh... I would love to know what Rush really thinks about the crap he spews... What is worse, that he truly believes it, or that he doesn't but spews it anyways regardless of the harm caused just for a buck? I think the latter... The former is a reason to pity him... *blech*

249 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 1:01:28am

re: #248 boxhead

I'm sure he knows it's crap, he just wants to make tons of money and influence idiots

250 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 1:09:00am

most likely... too bad there are lots of folks who do believe in his drivel.

251 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 1:11:46am

re: #242 boxhead

yeah.. we call that part of SoCal, Fontucky, (offspring of Kentucky and Fontana) or the 909 (area code).

Oh trust me, I know about Fontana.

I remember when it was still 714.

252 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 1:14:13am

re: #251 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh trust me, I know about Fontana.

I remember when it was still 714.

lol.... lots of open spaces and backyard/garage chemists... :)

253 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 1:30:19am

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Baloney.

Tea Party: Members have jobs, which why rallies are held on the weekend. Rallies obey the law so that no one needs to be arrested. Clearer agenda, and an understanding of private property. Much better than OWS, and I stand by that.

Look at the age of the members of the TP versus OWS, genius

254 researchok  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:18:18am

Morning, all

255 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:21:00am

Morning Honcos.

256 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:21:18am

re: #254 researchok

Morning, all

good morning to you... which means it is almost time for me to go... LOL

257 researchok  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:23:46am

re: #256 boxhead

good morning to you... which means it is almost time for me to go... LOL

There's a message in there somewhere..

258 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:25:05am

re: #257 researchok

There's a message in there somewhere..

heh... yep... you waking to go to work means I must get some sleep so I can do the same... lol 2:24 am here

259 The Left  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:25:15am

Pat Buchanan makes me ill.

Good morning all!

260 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:25:22am

evening folks

So apparently I left my Filipino passport at the airport and it's currently sitting in the lost & found. If they don't ask for a "reward" when I go to claim it tomorrow, I can say that I've found at least two honest employees (the guy who found it and the guy that signed it back) in the world's worst airport.

261 researchok  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:26:47am

re: #259 iceweasel

Pat Buchanan makes me ill.

Good morning all!

Get to the back of the line.
/

262 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:28:51am

re: #259 iceweasel

Pat Buchanan makes me ill.

Good morning all!

Good morning to you... It is so sad seeing folks like Pat trying so hard to remain relevant and profitable by any means necessary regardless of how odious they are. Time to retire Pat.. please

263 researchok  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:30:05am

re: #262 boxhead

Good morning to you... It is so sad seeing folks like Pat trying so hard to remain relevant and profitable by any means necessary regardless of how odious they are. Time to retire Pat.. please

'Odious'.

Sums it up.

264 boxhead  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:31:24am

re: #263 researchok

'Odious'.

Sums it up.

heh... ok... on that note... bed time for boxhead...

nite all

265 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 2:39:36am

Morning Folks!

266 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:04:53am

I love applying for jobs where the person posting the ad doesn't know how to spell. We should invent a line, say a squiggly line, that will appear if something is misspelled. We'll be rich!!!

267 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:08:40am

Morning!

Ignorant gun question time!

Do tracer rounds have an expiration date? Or would they last as long as an ordinary round?

268 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:12:24am

re: #267 Varek Raith

Morning!

Ignorant gun question time!

Do tracer rounds have an expiration date? Or would they last as long as an ordinary round?

Good question. Since the "tracer" portion of the round is just a little phosphorous I would think they would last as long as regular rounds....but I can't prove it.

269 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:12:40am

re: #267 Varek Raith

Morning!

Ignorant gun question time!

Do tracer rounds have an expiration date? Or would they last as long as an ordinary round?

Duck hunting in the dark?
/

270 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:13:58am

re: #266 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love applying for jobs where the person posting the ad doesn't know how to spell. We should invent a line, say a squiggly line, that will appear if something is misspelled. We'll be rich!!!

I put in a bid for a contract recently where the job offering claimed they wanted someone who was fanatical about detail and couldn't stand typos.

The problem was the way they asked for it in the ad posting was by saying "You're a grammar and language fanatic. You insist on good grammar and hard-hitting language. And then there's typos. How can anyone leave a typo in their work?"

I pointed out to them that that should be "And then there are typos" or "And then there is the subject of typos", and what they'd written was grammatically incorrect.

Didn't hear back. I think they weren't really prepared to have an actual language and grammar fanatic working for them; they just wanted someone they could dump crap on.

271 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:14:42am

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sometimes you're better off not knowing, DADT and all. If he's finally decided to move on his World Takeover Tour '11....I don't wanna know.

272 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:16:44am

re: #269 Cannadian Club Akbar

Duck hunting in the dark?
/

Fun vaguely related fact: The 2nd player in the original NES Duck Hunt can control the duck.

273 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:19:42am

re: #271 RogueOne

Sometimes you're better off not knowing, DADT and all. If he's finally decided to move on his World Takeover Tour '11...I don't wanna know.

No, not yet.

I'm putting together a Fallout P&P rpg game and I'm deciding if players should have access to 200+ year old tracer rounds.

274 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:20:07am

re: #267 Varek Raith

Morning!

Ignorant gun question time!

Do tracer rounds have an expiration date? Or would they last as long as an ordinary round?

Here is a link. It's free but they want your email address. So make one up.
[Link: www.thehighroad.org...]

From what I've read, ammo is good for decades if properly stored. Not sure about tracer rounds.

275 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:20:58am

re: #272 laZardo

Fun vaguely related fact: The 2nd player in the original NES Duck Hunt can control the duck.

Lol, that took forever before anyone realized that.

276 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:22:37am

re: #268 RogueOne

Good question. Since the "tracer" portion of the round is just a little phosphorous I would think they would last as long as regular rounds...but I can't prove it.

re: #274 Cannadian Club Akbar

Here is a link. It's free but they want your email address. So make one up.
[Link: www.thehighroad.org...]

From what I've read, ammo is good for decades if properly stored. Not sure about tracer rounds.

Cool.
Thanks.

277 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:22:51am

re: #273 Varek Raith

I'm going to turn you in to Bethesda for the reward money now. Expect a visit from Talon Company their lawyers.

278 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:23:51am

re: #270 Obdicut

Well it takes less time to write "there's" as opposed to "there are". WTF? Do you have all the time in the world?
/

279 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:26:23am

re: #273 Varek Raith

And in actual answer: Magnesium and phosphorus are both stable elements. Unless the bullets were stored in a place with high magnetism or high electrical current running through them, they won't have changed. I'm assuming the bullets are airtight, obviously.

280 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:27:30am

re: #276 Varek Raith

I think they use magnesium in some of those rounds. I would think the magnesium portion would last a lot longer than the gunpowder. I have two large bricks of it at the shop, it's a lot of fun sometimes.

281 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:28:41am

Awesome, thanks guys.

282 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:30:12am

re: #281 Varek Raith

Awesome, thanks guys.

We promise to be nice to you when you're typing with one hand. Just sayin'.

283 The Left  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:31:31am

re: #282 Cannadian Club Akbar

We promise to be nice to you when you're typing with one hand. Just sayin'.

Hey CCA-- how's your serial killer reading list going? Have any fun and disgusting facts for us?

284 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:32:29am

re: #280 RogueOne

Except oxidized magnesium doesn't react the same way, and I think it'd be powdered or shaved in the bullets, since solid magnesium is difficult to ignite-- and therefore if any air got in it'd oxidize the whole bunch of it.

It appears that environmental concerns are a big deal in ammo storage:

[Link: aggdefsol.com...]

So unless the ammo in general (not just tracer) are well-sealed, they'd probably be dangerous.

285 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:32:54am

This is one of my customers. I could see the light from the fire from where I was in Indy (about 30 miles). It looked like one of those big spotlights they use for midnight car sales:

Anderson Magnesium Fire Prompts Evacuation Of About 5,000
[Link: www.theindychannel.com...]

286 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:36:56am

re: #283 iceweasel

Patton Oswalt has a great bit on serial killers in one of his standup, or, rather, his girlfriend's absorbed interest in the topic.

Too lazy to find it.

287 The Left  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:38:36am

re: #286 Obdicut

Patton Oswalt has a great bit on serial killers in one of his standup, or, rather, his girlfriend's absorbed interest in the topic.

Too lazy to find it.

Cool, I'll look for it when I feel a little less lazy. :)

288 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:39:09am

re: #284 Obdicut

Damn it, I meant 'not' a big deal. The only problem appears to be humidity. So, if the bullets in general were in a humid environment, problem. If they're not, they should be fine for a long, long time.

289 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:39:29am

Meet the new guys. No fucking better than the old guys.

[Link: www.hrw.org...]

(Sirte) – Fifty-three people, apparent Gaddafi supporters, seem to have been executed at a hotel in Sirte last week, Human Rights Watch said today. The hotel is in an area of the city that was under the control of anti-Gaddafi fighters from Misrata before the killings took place.

Human Rights Watch called on Libya’s National Transitional Council (NTC) to conduct an immediate and transparent investigation into the apparent mass execution and to bring those responsible to justice.

“We found 53 decomposing bodies, apparently Gaddafi supporters, at an abandoned hotel in Sirte, and some had their hands bound behind their backs when they were shot,” said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch, who investigated the killings. “This requires the immediate attention of the Libyan authorities to investigate what happened and hold accountable those responsible.”

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:40:06am

re: #283 iceweasel

Hey CCA-- how's your serial killer reading list going? Have any fun and disgusting facts for us?

Good. Working on a Green River Killer book. No great facts other than BTK started to communicate with the police after about 10 years of not killing anyone. He asked the cops if he could send a floppy disk to them since it couldn't be traced to the actual computer (they were communicating in personal ads in the local paper). Problem? He thought he wiped the disk clean but not so much. He didn't use a new one. And his daughter was part of a university study where she had to give DNA. They compared her DNA to DNA found at the scenes. Lead investigator said Dennis Rader might not be the killer, but the killer was this girls father. D'oh!! And the police took about 1000 DNA samples over the years, in the area. Rader lived about 15 miles away.

291 The Left  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:43:58am

re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good. Working on a Green River Killer book. No great facts other than BTK started to communicate with the police after about 10 years of not killing anyone. He asked the cops if he could send a floppy disk to them since it couldn't be traced to the actual computer (they were communicating in personal ads in the local paper). Problem? He thought he wiped the disk clean but not so much. He didn't use a new one. And his daughter was part of a university study where she had to give DNA. They compared her DNA to DNA found at the scenes. Lead investigator said Dennis Rader might not be the killer, but the killer was this girls father. D'oh!! And the police took about 1000 DNA samples over the years, in the area. Rader lived about 15 miles away.

I didn't know any of that. Interesting!
Wasn't there some kind of stuff about his church? Like he used the church computer or something when handling the disk? I seem to remember something like that.

292 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:50:43am

re: #291 iceweasel

I didn't know any of that. Interesting!
Wasn't there some kind of stuff about his church? Like he used the church computer or something when handling the disk? I seem to remember something like that.

The disk he gave to the cops was a disk from his church he used to write letters with his name on it along with the church's letterhead. He was president of his church and actually stashed some "trophies" there along with articles about himself. He also took some victims there and took pics. (privacy gave him time to be alone with them) Cops showed up on a Friday with warrants and showed them to the Pastor, who was obviously floored.

293 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:50:55am

re: #289 Sergey Romanov

Waiting for PLL's defense.

:I

294 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:51:13am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wasn't it the metainfo, not the letterhead, that gave the church connection?

295 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:55:06am

Holy crap. One of my friends as the awesome last name of "Tiger". I mean, that's rad, right?

He found a way to screw it up.

He just named his new son "Goge Tem"

296 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:55:33am

re: #294 Obdicut

Wasn't it the metainfo, not the letterhead, that gave the church connection?

They dug into the disk and after a couple hours found all the info on the disk. He thought he erased it. Rader was a technical and grammar idiot.

297 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:56:37am

re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yay for microsoft's privacy insecurity.

298 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:58:54am

re: #283 iceweasel

Hey CCA-- how's your serial killer reading list going? Have any fun and disgusting facts for us?

re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar

CCA,,,, reading for fun,,,, or research!?!?!

//

299 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 3:59:40am

re: #297 Obdicut

Yay for microsoft's privacy insecurity.

It was metadata. I wasn't sure what that was. From Wiki:
Police found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the disk.[19] The metadata, recovered using the forensic software EnCase,[19] contained "Christ Lutheran Church", and the document was marked as last modified by "Dennis". A search of the church website turned up Dennis Rader as president of the congregation council. Police began surveillance of Rader.[20]

If he would have used a new disk, who knows.

300 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:01:05am

Blue on Blue:

Video Shows Officer Possibly Assaulting Fellow Officer
[Link: www2.nbc4i.com...]

Mark Harrington is Director of Created Equal, the group protesting outside the Shadowbox which Harrington says was hosting a Planned Parenthood event the night in question. Harrington estimates about 20 protesters were on the sidewalk. Harrington said he immediately introduced himself to the officer working security for the event, referred to in the video as "Jack." Harrington said he told the officer whom he believes was working security for the Planned Parenthood event, that the group was there to protest but would do so peacefully.

According to Harrington, the officer told the group they had to move.
......
Harrington says the group complied with the officer's request but called Det. Roger Dickinson for help. According to protesters, Dickinson is part of a branch of Columbus Police which is assigned to handle issues with protesters. When Dickinson arrived on scene, Harrington said he told the other officer, "Jack," the protesters could stand on the sidewalk to protest and that is when the officer allegedly pinned Dickinson to the wall.

The officer can be heard in the video telling Dickinson he is "trespassing."

Witnesses began filming the incident and called 911. In the video Dickinson remains pinned to the wall even after more officers are on scene. Dickinson yells repeatedly for "Jack," to let him go. Eventually the officer released his hold.

I think the fat cop might be in a little trouble. They don't mind handling protesters a little roughly but when you grab a cop they lose their sense of humor.

301 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:01:11am

re: #299 Cannadian Club Akbar

It was metadata. I wasn't sure what that was. From Wiki:
Police found metadata embedded in a deleted Microsoft Word document that was, unbeknownst to Rader, on the disk.[19] The metadata, recovered using the forensic software EnCase,[19] contained "Christ Lutheran Church", and the document was marked as last modified by "Dennis". A search of the church website turned up Dennis Rader as president of the congregation council. Police began surveillance of Rader.[20]

If he would have used a new disk, who knows.

Most don't realize how much data stays behind when it's 'deleted'.

302 The Left  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:01:49am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did you read any theories about why he quit for so long (if he did)? Didn't he go quiet for ten years? Was it the anniversary attention in the papers that got him started again?

303 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:06:02am

Footloose 2: Electric Haka

Roosevelt police pepper spray fans after high school football game
[Link: www.deseretnews.com...]

A small town football game ended in chaos when police used pepper spray on fans and players to break up a post-game celebration.
...
Union lost the game, and as the players left the field a group of Polynesian fans tried to boost the team's morale by performing the Haka, a fierce traditional war chant often performed at football and rugby games around the state.
.....
"The cops were yelling, 'Make a hole! Make a hole!' But the coaches, the players, family members were saying, 'It's OK. It's OK, Let them do it,'" she said.

Witnesses say police didn't listen. Instead they began spraying the crowd of performers, players and fans with pepper spray.

"It was continual spraying and spraying," Breana said.
.......
"I didn't see anything that looked like there could be a threat," he said.

Mitchell did, however, acknowledge that the impromptu performance might have played a role in how police responded.

"If they're going to do something like (the Haka), maybe some planning could be done ahead of time," he suggested.

304 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:08:42am

re: #302 iceweasel

Did you read any theories about why he quit for so long (if he did)? Didn't he go quiet for ten years? Was it the anniversary attention in the papers that got him started again?

I think so. And the cops formed another task force. There were also kooks trying to take credit for his work. Serial killers don't like that. But kooks were quickly dismissed because they couldn't give detailed accounts including what was used to tie victims up. That's one of those thing a person would remember.:)

305 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:09:50am

re: #302 iceweasel

I don't recall exactly why he quit. Maybe his urges were quelled.

306 The Left  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:10:49am

re: #304 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think so. And the cops formed another task force. There were also kooks trying to take credit for his work. Serial killers don't like that. But kooks were quickly dismissed because they couldn't give detailed accounts including what was used to tie victims up. That's one of those thing a person would remember.:)

The creepiest thing about him to me was that he could stop for so long and apparently live a normal life with his family. Brrrr!

I feel so bad for his wife and kids. And the victims and their families, of course.

307 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:11:22am

re: #305 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't recall exactly why he quit. Maybe his urges were quelled.

I quit murdering people because I got an Xbox. Then the damn thing red-ringed on me, so it was back to the murdering.

308 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:14:05am

re: #305 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't recall exactly why he quit. Maybe his urges were quelled.

Laid off?

309 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:14:18am

For gods sakes don't jay walk in Downey CA:

Downey Police Shot And Killed Wrong Man
Michael Nida, 31, Was The Father Of 4
[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]

Downey police Sunday say they shot and killed an unarmed man.

Michael Nida, a father of four, was with his wife pumping gas Saturday when he jaywalked across the street towards the Imperial tobacco shop.

Police said Nida, 31, matched the description of a suspect in an earlier ATM robbery.

They say Nida tried to flee and when they apprehended him down the street he refused to cooperate. He was “acting aggressively,” CBS2 and KCAL9 reporter Melissa Maynarich was told today.

Police said that an officer shot Nida at least once. The victim’s sister, Terri Teramura, however told KCAL9 that her brother was shot “five times…in the back.”

310 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:15:20am

re: #308 sattv4u2

Laid off?

He sat in the serial killer union hall for years waiting for work...

311 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:15:44am

re: #309 RogueOne

Wonder what the coroners report will say.

312 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:16:05am

re: #309 RogueOne

he jaywalked across the street towards the Imperial tobacco shop.

Instead of "Don't Drink and Drive" it's "Don't Walk for Smokes"

313 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:16:14am

re: #311 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wonder what the coroners report will say.

lead poisoning, officers cleared.

314 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:16:50am

re: #311 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wonder what the coroners report will say.

Another death due to smoking!
/

315 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:20:49am

Population of world 'could grow to 15billion by 2100'
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

I better get a few more drink glasses!

316 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:22:26am

UH Researcher Predicts Tsunami Debris Coming Sooner To Hawaii

Read more: [Link: www.kitv.com...]


It could be the first official report of tsunami debris from Japan nearing Hawaii.


First, we imported their Toyotas and Datsuns, now their trash!!

317 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:22:33am

Hassling Jesus is asking for bad karma:

"We Don't Need a Warrant, We're ICE"
[Link: www.aclu.org...]

On the night of October 20, 2010, Angel Enrique and Jesus Antonio were in bed in their small, two-bedroom apartment in the Clairmont complex in Nashville. The doors and windows were all shut and locked. Suddenly there was a loud banging at the door and voices shouting "Police!" and "Policia!" When no one answered, the agents tried to force the door open. Scared, Jesus hid in a closet. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents began hitting objects against the bedroom windows, trying to break in. Without a search warrant and without consent, the ICE agents eventually knocked in the front door and shattered a window, shouting racial slurs and storming into the bedrooms, holding guns to their heads. When asked if they had a warrant, one agent reportedly said, "We don't need a warrant, we're ICE," and, gesturing to his genitals, "the warrant is coming out of my balls."

The ACLU and ACLU of Tennessee this week filed a lawsuit in federal court on behalf of fifteen residents of the apartment complex who were subjected to this large-scale, warrantless raid by ICE agents and Metro Nashville police officers.

Remind me never to ask to see the warrant...

318 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:23:53am

re: #317 RogueOne

Remind me never to ask to see the warrant...

Rogue ,,, never ask to see a warrant!

319 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:26:25am

re: #318 sattv4u2

Remind me never to ask to see the warrant...

Rogue ,,, never ask to see a warrant!

I wonder if that would work as a bar pickup line? "I have a warrant for your detainment...Wanna see my balls?" Somebody should try it and let me know how it goes.

320 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:27:09am

re: #309 RogueOne

Hey, Rogue. I know you'll like this:

321 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:30:47am

re: #319 RogueOne

I wonder if that would work as a bar pickup line? "I have a warrant for your detainment...Wanna see my balls?" Somebody should try it and let me know how it goes.

K,,,, I'll tell you all about it after I get out of the hospital and have my new teeth installed!

322 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:30:51am

re: #320 Sergey Romanov

Is that guy eating biscotti? Fucking 1%ers.
/

323 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:31:08am

re: #320 Sergey Romanov

That's hilarious!

324 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:37:55am

Isn't this the 3rd time this has happened this year? Someone killed bear hunting?

Hunter Kills Marine; Mistook Him for a Bear
[Link: www.nbcbayarea.com...]

A man hunting with his grandson accidentally killed a U.S. Marine due to return to duty this week, after mistaking him for a bear in the Oregon wilderness, authorities said.

Christopher Ochoa, 20, of French Camp, Calif., died at the scene in western Oregon Friday night. He had been hiking with a friend through a field and was wearing dark clothes, according to The Associated Press. The pair were headed to Silver Creek Falls Park.

Gene Collier, who was hunting bear with his 12-year-old grandson saw movement in the brush and fired one shot from a .270-caliber rifle, striking Ochoa, the Marion County Sheriff's Office said. His pal was able to summon authorities and direct them to the scene. Although deputies administered first aid to Ochoa, who was alive when they arrived, he died at the scene.

325 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:38:26am

Man, talk about people who just can't let it go.
/
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

326 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:39:56am

Okay, there's something going on with tigers.

A friend of mine just suggested I add one of his friends on facebook. That friend?

Allison Tittiger.

Best last name ever.

327 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:41:00am

re: #325 Cannadian Club Akbar

Man, talk about people who just can't let it go.
/
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

They're welcome to try to take us back.
/

328 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:43:28am

re: #325 Cannadian Club Akbar

Man, talk about people who just can't let it go.
/
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

I watched the beginning of the Bears/Bucs game and they sang both the US national anthem and God Save the Queen. They should have compromised and sang America the Beautiful, two songs for the price of one.

329 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:44:48am

re: #328 RogueOne

I watched the beginning of the Bears/Bucs game and they sang both the US national anthem and God Save the Queen. They should have compromised and sang America the Beautiful, two songs for the price of one.

The woman who sang God Save the Queen was hot.

330 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:45:54am

re: #328 RogueOne

I watched the beginning of the Bears/Bucs game and they sang both the US national anthem and God Save the Queen. They should have compromised and sang America the Beautiful, two songs for the price of one.

Don't you mean "My Country Tis of Thee"?

331 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:47:25am

re: #330 Alouette

Don't you mean "My Country Tis of Thee"?

Probably

332 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:48:13am

re: #325 Cannadian Club Akbar

Whether or not it was, it doesn't actually matter.

333 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:51:55am

re: #327 Varek Raith

They're welcome to try to take us back.
/

How about, we take Alaska back together with Sarah. Fair is fair, no? ///

334 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:52:51am

5 tons of pot seized in Indianapolis, state's largest drug bust
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

An investigation that started in March with money falling from a hidden compartment in a truck ended last week as apparently the largest drug bust in Indiana history.

More than 5 tons of marijuana and more than $4.3 million are now in law enforcement hands, with four men in the Marion County Jail on charges that could put them in prison for life.

The size of the bust has law enforcement confident that they have, at least for now, halted a large drug distribution operation in Indianapolis and probably affected a Mexican drug cartel.

335 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:55:45am

re: #327 Varek Raith

They're welcome to try to take us back.
/

"Independence grows from the barrel of a musket."

--Chairman Adams.

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:55:53am

Just finished reading Obdi's monumental response to Brad. Wow. Very interested in how Brad responds.

337 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:56:55am

re: #335 Decatur Deb

"Independence grows from the barrel of a musket."

--Chairman Adams.

or, according to the libyan video sergey posted yesterday, the point of a stick.

338 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:57:12am

re: #334 RogueOne

If 5 tons of weed are only worth 4.3 million, that is some nasty stank ditch weed.

339 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:59:23am

re: #338 Obdicut

If 5 tons of weed are only worth 4.3 million, that is some nasty stank ditch weed.

I think the $4.3 was actual cash they found.

U.S. Attorney Joe Hogsett said the financial hit to the Mexican cartel, which authorities believe was the originator of the marijuana and the ultimate destination of the cash, is far more than the $4.3 million seized here. While the bulk value of the marijuana — 10,505 pounds, or 5.25 tons — is about $5 million, Hogsett said, the street value “could be upwards of 10 times that amount.”

$50 mill if you're selling it at $5 a joint maybe. More like $17 Mill if you sell it by the lb.

340 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 4:59:44am

re: #338 Obdicut

That's $26 an ounce. 6.50 a quarter.

Are they sure they didn't just grab 5 tons of dandelions?

341 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:00:26am

re: #339 RogueOne

Ah, bulk value. That's surprising, normally the cops announce the street value because it makes the numbers fucking huge.

342 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:00:52am

re: #327 Varek Raith

They're welcome to try to take us back.
/

"Independence grows from the barrel of a musket."

--Chairman Adams.re: #337 RogueOne

or, according to the libyan video sergey posted yesterday, the point of a stick.

Don't bet George III's ass would be safe in Boston. Revolutions get messy.

343 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:03:24am

re: #162 Gus 802

Well that's what the American right has been trying to say was the foundation of the Constitution. In not so many words. The Catholic church certainly took hold of Poland to an even greater extent after the fall of the Soviet Union. The Russian Orthodox Church in Russia. Sergey can check that. ;)

ROC's undue influence is big, huge even, but not nearly at the level of Islam in, say, Pakistan or - unfortunately - future Libya. The Church is still legally separate from the state.

344 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:04:23am

re: #341 Obdicut

Ah, bulk value. That's surprising, normal the cops announce the street value because it makes the numbers fucking huge.

My old room mate would buy 5 pounds at a time, keeping 4 pounds in a self storage unit (20 years ago). Went to the same place 2 weeks ago. They have signs up that say "K-9 units train here". Heh.

345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:06:50am

re: #338 Obdicut

If 5 tons of weed are only worth 4.3 million, that is some nasty stank ditch weed.

5 tons of marijuana and more than $4.3 million

"And", not "worth"... Big ol' pile of pot and a big ol' pile of money.

346 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:07:39am

re: #344 Cannadian Club Akbar

My old room mate would buy 5 pounds at a time, keeping 4 pounds in a self storage unit (20 years ago). Went to the same place 2 weeks ago. They have signs up that say "K-9 units train here". Heh.

30 years ago my old boss kept his excess weight in a bank safe-deposit box. Said it made him feel good to know the man's armed guards were keeping it safe.

347 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:08:09am

MSNBC is the yin to FNC's yang. This was explicitly told to me by an executive at NBC. The fact that MSNBC has Buchanan on the payroll as their "house conservative" tells me that they keep pat around (at least in part) because they want "their guy" to exhibit the very worst characteristics of right wingers.

348 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:08:16am

re: #345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you catch this gem that Sergey posted?

349 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:08:48am

Talk about tacky:

Officials Use Ruse At Wolcott High To Clear Halls For Drug Search
Say There's An Intruder In Building, But It's Just A Drill
[Link: www.courant.com...]

At Wolcott High School one morning this week, an urgent announcement crackled over the intercom: a threatening intruder was in the building and students were told to immediately take refuge in classrooms.

Doors were locked and police, with dogs, moved in. Students stayed huddled in classrooms where they were told to stay away from the windows.

But what sounded like a frightening situation was just a search for narcotics. Drug-sniffing dogs combed the school while students stayed in locked classrooms, believing that an attacker was roaming the halls.

350 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:08:51am

re: #337 RogueOne

or, according to the libyan video sergey posted yesterday, the point of a stick.

I'm afraid something else entirely may be growing there.

351 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:10:09am

re: #347 _RememberTonyC

MSNBC is nowhere near as tied in to the Democratic party as Fox News, nor are they anywhere near as obviously biased in their reporting.

352 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:10:11am

re: #350 Sergey Romanov

I'm afraid something else entirely may be growing there.

I'm willing to give it some time to settle down. Most revolutions seem to go through a pretty bloody retribution phase.

353 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:10:25am

re: #348 Obdicut

Yeah. I was... uh... weirded out.

354 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:11:17am

Morning Lizardim. It's been a doozy of a weekend, and that's just in fish country. What's shaking out in Lizardia? Anything new worth noting among the vast unhinged?

355 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:11:27am

re: #353 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah. I was... uh... confused, yet strangely? Aroused.

Maybe it's a secret furry conversion film.

356 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:12:05am

re: #13 Charles

I guarantee that ol' Uncle Pat used to listen to Father Coughlin in his youth.

I posted this the other day when that Social Justice thread was up. I believe buchanan has even admitted it in the past.

357 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:12:19am

re: #352 RogueOne

I'm willing to give it some time to settle down. Most revolutions seem to go through a pretty bloody retribution phase.

An old girlfriend's family was forced to flee to Canada in the 1770's. They still pass down tales of Bostonian terrorists.

358 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:12:45am

re: #353 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah. I was... uh... confused, yet strangely? Aroused.

Well, one of the top comments under that video is something about "my dick is confused".

359 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:13:10am

re: #355 Obdicut

Maybe it's a secret furry conversion film.

DAMN YOU WINDUPBIRD

:B

360 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:13:45am

re: #351 Obdicut

MSNBC is nowhere near as tied in to the Democratic party as Fox News, nor are they anywhere near as obviously biased in their reporting.

I was specifically told by an NBC executive that MSNBC has sought to be the yin to FNC's yang. That is a direct quote from someone who knows.

361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:15:10am

re: #355 Obdicut

See what I get for trying have "fun with the pencil"?

Do not try to have fun with the pencil.

362 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:16:04am

re: #361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See what I get for trying have "fun with the pencil"?

Do not try to have fun with the pencil.

It's not a toy.

363 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:16:08am

re: #361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See what I get for trying have "fun with the pencil"?

Do not try to have fun with the pencil.

That's what SHE said.

364 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:16:49am

re: #361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See what I get for trying have "fun with the pencil"?

Do not try to have fun with the pencil.

Do not taunt the pencil.

365 RogueOne  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:17:43am

Time to hit the road. Enjoy the day people!

366 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:17:55am

re: #360 _RememberTonyC

I was specifically told by an NBC executive that MSNBC has sought to be the yin to FNC's yang. That is a direct quote from someone who knows.

To achieve balance with Buchanan, then, FNC would need a Bolshevik on their staff.

367 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:18:27am

re: #360 _RememberTonyC

I was specifically told by an NBC executive that MSNBC has sought to be the yin to FNC's yang. That is a direct quote from someone who knows.

So what? If they have tried-- according to one dude, who I assume you're not going to name, and I have no reason to believe-- they've failed. They do not report on things in the flat-out dishonest fashion of Fox. They do have some people who have a liberal 'bias', but one of those, Maddow, is like the inverse of the right-wing talk show hosts, in that she does a very significant amount of research and, while not infallible, tends to be highly meticulous.

Is that, perhaps, what you meant? That they want to be moderately liberal where Fox is radically conservative, and accurate where Fox is innacurate? That'd fix the Yin/Yang metaphor too.

368 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:19:06am

re: #355 Obdicut

Maybe it's a secret furry conversion film.

Nah. This is a secret furry conversion film (NSFW!).

369 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:20:35am

re: #368 Sergey Romanov

Um, did anyone else get an ad with full-frontal nudity?

370 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:20:48am

NTC said there will be a commission for investigation of Kaddafi's death.

371 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:21:20am

re: #369 Obdicut

Hmm.

372 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:21:34am

re: #369 Obdicut

ooh, that's not the ad, is it.

Might want to drop a "NSFW" on that, Sergey.

373 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:22:14am

re: #369 Obdicut

Um, did anyone else get an ad with full-frontal nudity?

Lol, what was that???

374 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:22:20am

re: #372 Obdicut

Done ;)

375 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:22:53am

By the way, anybody seen the film trailer for the new Adam Sandler movie, "Jack and Jill"?

Tell me that doesn't look like a fucking train wreck.

This is better to watch...

376 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:22:55am

re: #370 Sergey Romanov

NTC said there will be a commission for investigation of Kaddafi's death.

I see a lot of community service in someone's future.

377 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:22:59am

re: #372 Obdicut

Yeah, even without the sparkler-breasts, the rest of the fucking would probably require a NSFW.

Damn, that freaks me out.

378 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:23:29am

re: #368 Sergey Romanov

Let me up the ante with a series.

great news, they're also getting around to subtitles :D

379 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:23:39am

re: #373 Varek Raith

Lol, what was that???

Nice tits. After that, not sure!!

380 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:24:51am

re: #379 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nice tits. After that, not sure!!

That's how it starts! //

381 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:25:12am

re: #375 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, anybody seen the film trailer for the new Adam Sandler movie, "Jack and Jill"?

Tell me that doesn't look like a fucking train wreck.

This is better to watch...

Oh god that movie looks terrible. Adam Sandler decided to completely blow any possible cool factor he had right out the window. With his butt.

He's about at Wayans level now.

382 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:25:41am

re: #375 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, anybody seen the film trailer for the new Adam Sandler movie, "Jack and Jill"?

Tell me that doesn't look like a fucking train wreck.

This is better to watch...

Yeah, I saw the trailer. Adam Sandler has been very up-and-down IMO - he's had some good stuff, and then he doesn't just jump the shark, he decides to make a movie about it.

383 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:26:04am

re: #375 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, anybody seen the film trailer for the new Adam Sandler movie, "Jack and Jill"?

Tell me that doesn't look like a fucking train wreck.

This is better to watch...

Every Adam Sandler movie is a train wreck. Except for "Zohan." That was a terrorist attack of suck.

384 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:26:33am

re: #367 Obdicut

So what? If they have tried-- according to one dude, who I assume you're not going to name, and I have no reason to believe-- they've failed. They do not report on things in the flat-out dishonest fashion of Fox. They do have some people who have a liberal 'bias', but one of those, Maddow, is like the inverse of the right-wing talk show hosts, in that she does a very significant amount of research and, while not infallible, tends to be highly meticulous.

Is that, perhaps, what you meant? That they want to be moderately liberal where Fox is radically conservative, and accurate where Fox is innacurate? That'd fix the Yin/Yang metaphor too.

Jesus Obdi. You are quite right that I will not name this person, who is a very high ranking NBC exec that I may work with in the future. If you had any idea who this person is, you would chill out. You are sounding quite hysterical in your response. All this person said was that MSNBC has found it's niche as "the yin to FNC's yang." No more and no less. And as a result of that, I am not the least bit surprised that MSNBC features a straight up nazi like Buchanan to represent the right.

385 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:27:48am

re: #370 Sergey Romanov

10% is 20 billion.

386 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:28:19am

re: #384 _RememberTonyC

Jesus Obdi. You are quite right that I will not name this person, who is a very high ranking NBC exec that I may work with in the future. If you had any idea who this person is, you would chill out. You are sounding quite hysterical in your response

What are you talking about? How am I hysterical?

All this person said was that MSNBC has found it's niche as "the yin to FNC's yang." No more and no less. And as a result of that, I am not the least bit surprised that MSNBC features a straight up nazi like Buchanan to represent the right.

They also feature Joe Scarborough. How does that fit in?

387 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:29:29am

re: #385 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

10% is 20 billion.

wut

388 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:29:39am

re: #386 Obdicut

They also feature Joe Scarborough. How does that fit in?

I think he's the little black dot in the white sperm. Or maybe he's the white dot in the black sperm?

I can never figure yin and yang out.

389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:30:12am

re: #387 Sergey Romanov

wut

(a Q-daffy "commission")

390 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:30:32am

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

aaa

391 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:30:40am

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(a Q-daffy "commission")

*WHACK!*

392 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:31:39am

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(a Q-daffy "commission")

Image: happybirthday.png

393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:33:23am

re: #383 Alouette

Every Adam Sandler movie is a train wreck. Except for "Zohan." That was a terrorist attack of suck.

I was about to put together an argument against that premise. Then? I realized that you were right. Can't think of a Sandler movie where I walked out and said, "Wow, I'm glad I saw that."

Watch the video? Nick Cage just facepalms all the way through the trailer. Nick doesn't have extreme room to talk... he's made some true shit sandwiches of movies himself.

394 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:35:31am

re: #393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watch the video? Nick Cage just facepalms all the way through the trailer. Nick doesn't have extreme room to talk... he's made some true shit sandwiches of movies himself.

The difference being, Nicholas Cage has actually managed to produce at least one movie worth watching. Sandler, well, I know some of my friends would argue with me tirelessly for saying this, but if there's an Adam Sandler movie that I'm supposed to like, I've never heard of it.

395 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:35:32am

re: #386 Obdicut

We could end this discussion and institute a Ministry of Fariness and Balance which would require all news broadcasters to submit their scripts for approval and change to bring them into line with guidelines for F&B-ness.

The fact that news networks can continue in business after broadcasting lies and hiring extremists says more about America's target audiences than the broadcasters...

396 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:35:33am

re: #393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I had such, such high hopes for Cage after Raising Arizona. I thought he'd be a Buscemi/William H. Macy/Christopher Walken type actor. But no. It was just the Cohen Brothers enticing a nuanced performance out of an otherwise overwrought actor. I think it's telling that his best performance is that one, where he plays a guy who's a bit of a dimwit.

397 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:35:38am

re: #393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't the Nick Cage footage from "8MM"?

398 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:36:27am

US envoy quits Syria for 'security reasons'

399 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:36:45am

re: #396 Obdicut

I loved him in Leaving Las Vegas.

400 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:37:08am

re: #393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"The Waterboy", which was good. Forgot about "The Waterboy".

401 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:37:44am

re: #395 ralphieboy

Well, I believe that propaganda has power, a lot of power, so the audience isn't just demanding the product, they're also transformed by it, radicalized by it. It turns into a feedback mechanism. I agree that the problem is cultural, but it didn't arise from a general need for this-- a tolerance for it, yes, but the propaganda campaign is the work of actual people, like Atwater, Scaife, the ACI, Heritage, etc. etc. actively producing it, pushing it, with a very willful and in many cases scarily intelligent strategy.

Fox is just one peg in a very large right-wing propaganda network.

402 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:38:03am

re: #398 Sergey Romanov

US envoy quits Syria for 'security reasons'

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

403 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:38:20am

Meanwhile Saleh agrees to quit in exchange for immunity.

404 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:38:42am

re: #393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was about to put together an argument against that premise. Then? I realized that you were right. Can't think of a Sandler movie where I walked out and said, "Wow, I'm glad I saw that."

snip...

True, unless he did "50 First Dates". There always seems to be a little Jerry Lewis in Sandler, trying to eat its way through his sternum.

405 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:38:44am

re: #398 Sergey Romanov

US envoy quits Syria for 'security reasons'

Right. It's about to get real.

406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:38:56am

re: #396 Obdicut

Moonstruck, Leaving Las Vegas, Raising Arizona and Kick Ass (which was a very good movie that he sucked in).

407 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:39:34am

re: #403 Sergey Romanov

Meanwhile Saleh agrees to quit in exchange for immunity.

If Assad had any sense, he would too.

408 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:39:57am

re: #399 Cannadian Club Akbar

I loved him in Leaving Las Vegas.

I liked him a lot in it, but I don't feel his actual performance was as good as in Raising Arizona, because the role is a lot simpler, and mostly he just has to overact.

But really a Cohen Brothers movie is such a tightly-worked thing that it's also his performance is so well-contrasted by Goodman, by Holly Hunter, by Trey Wilson.

409 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:40:49am

re: #401 Obdicut

Fox is just one peg in a very large right-wing propaganda network.

the fact that there is an audience of people who are unable to see through that fact says a lot about America.

If we truly learned how to use media, to think critically and gather our information from a number of independent sources, networks like Fox would not have an audience worth noting.

410 Decatur Deb  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:40:55am

re: #407 Sergey Romanov

If Assad had any sense, he would too.

About now Assad is having dreams where he wakes up with G'dayfee's head on his pillow.

411 dragonfire1981  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:40:55am

I actually didn't mind Sandler in Click.

412 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:41:10am

re: #407 Sergey Romanov

The Assad thing will not end well.

"Thus always to tyrants."

413 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:41:19am

re: #408 Obdicut

BTW Obdi thanks for your thorough Fisking on the Brad thread.

414 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:41:33am

re: #403 Sergey Romanov

Meanwhile Saleh agrees to quit in exchange for immunity.

...again?

415 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:41:34am

re: #410 Decatur Deb

About now Assad is having dreams where he wakes up with G'dayfee's head on his pillow.

"We made him an offer he couldn't refuse. But he did anyway. You all know how this story ends."

416 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:42:05am

re: #386 Obdicut

What are you talking about? How am I hysterical?

They also feature Joe Scarborough. How does that fit in?

Scarborough is a more moderate republican and a "host" as opposed to a "commentator.". The roles are different. You are going on and on trying to refute a statement that was made by an insider at NBC. He knows more about the situation than you do. He agrees with the philosophy, by the way. It has led to an increase in MSNBC's ratings.

417 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:44:14am

re: #414 laZardo

...again?

He agreed to the SecCouncil resolution. That wasn't a certain outcome.

[Link: ca.reuters.com...]

418 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:44:51am

This, I have to admit, is a funny concept.

They need to do it with Malcolm McDowell from "A Clockwork Orange".

419 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:44:56am

re: #413 Alouette

No problem. In the end, I do think SFZ knee-jerked just a little, but I hope Brad understands why the overly-broad US-Israel Lobby thing is a problem-- and why Jew-counting is always a fool's exercise.

And I do think that the ECI is an embarrassment and their portrayal of OWS is done from a very cynical point of view.

420 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:46:26am

re: #416 _RememberTonyC

Scarborough is a more moderate republican and a "host" as opposed to a "commentator.". The roles are different. You are going on and on trying to refute a statement that was made by an insider at NBC. He knows more about the situation than you do. He agrees with the philosophy, by the way. It has led to an increase in MSNBC's ratings.

To be fair, though, I don't think it really matters what some guy at MSNBC says their philosophy is, what matters is what they actually put out over the airwaves.

I don't think it's at all accurate to portray MSNBC's programming as a "liberal counterweight" to Fox News. They are far less dogmatic and one-sided, and they also have higher journalistic standards.

421 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:46:59am

re: #418 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This, I have to admit, is a funny concept.

Are people putting out these videos or is it the studio?

422 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:48:46am

re: #421 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sure that some clever person is putting these together. I doubt that "Happy Madison Productions" is putting out "facepalm my movie".

423 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:48:57am

re: #416 _RememberTonyC

Scarborough is a more moderate republican and a "host" as opposed to a "commentator.". The roles are different.

Heh. So MSBNC tries to be the yin to Fox's Yang except where 'hosts' are concerned? Maybe that's the white dot. Your claim is that they're trying to portray the right as all like Buchanan, but they expose people to a moderate Republican, Joe Scarborough, on a permanent basis and with a prominent show. You can't see how this punctures your argument?

424 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:50:16am

re: #416 _RememberTonyC

Links to this insider saying this???

425 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:51:49am

re: #422 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm sure that some clever person is putting these together. I doubt that "Happy Madison Productions" is putting out "facepalm my movie".

Well, a rule in advertising is to get people t talk about the product. Mentos commercials suck, but we know them. Maybe near the release date there will be some funnier trailers (maybe using those videos) to promote the movie. Beats trying to find a critics positive comment.

426 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:53:42am

re: #418 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This, I have to admit, is a funny concept.

Michael Caine is kind of like Nicholas Cage with more intelligence, talent, and dedication.

427 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:55:52am

re: #426 Obdicut

Michael Caine is kind of like Nicholas Cage with more intelligence, talent, and dedication.

And fewer influential relatives in the movie business.

428 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:57:30am

re: #427 iossarian

And fewer influential relatives in the movie business.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You mean Nicholas Cage isn't his real name!!
///

429 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:58:32am

re: #428 Cannadian Club Akbar

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You mean Nicholas Cage isn't his real name!!
///

Correct. It's Nicolas Cage.

430 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:02:10am

re: #360 _RememberTonyC

I was specifically told by an NBC executive that MSNBC has sought to be the yin to FNC's yang. That is a direct quote from someone who knows.

In their prime time opinion lineup that seems clear: Sharpton, Maddow, Schultz and O'Donnell are all lefties, no doubt about it.

Where it appears that they have not borrowed the FNC model is in their news coverage, where they still strive for accuracy and fairness.

And I would bet real money that the unnamed source would agree they are not going down the FNC "all slanted news all the time" rabbit hole.

431 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:02:31am

re: #426 Obdicut

In 2009, Caine openly criticised the Labour government's proposed new 50% tax on top earners:

"The Government has taken tax up to 50 per cent and if it goes to 51% I will be back in America. They have reached their limit with me and that's what will happen to a lot of people. You know how much they made out of that high taxation all those years ago? Nothing. But they sent a mass of incredible brains to America. We've got 3.5 million layabouts laying about on benefits, and I'm 76, getting up at 6 am to go to work to keep them. Let's get everybody back to work so we can save a couple of billion and cut tax, not keep sticking it on."

Snicker

432 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:04:26am

re: #426 Obdicut

I watched "Deathtrap" the other day. So. Damn. Good.

433 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:04:38am

re: #429 iossarian

Correct. It's Nicolas Cage.

And his middle name is Kim.

434 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:04:53am

re: #431 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's a shame. He used to be highly patriotic-- he agitated for the national service being returned, which I'm actually in favor of. I'd love it if in the US everyone had to do 2 years in the army or in a civilian service role. I think it'd be very good for us culturally. I know the rich and powerful would still jigger with the system to get some plum assignments, but in general I think it'd help people feel bound together and be more respectful of each other, as well as just frankly better behaved.

435 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:07:36am

re: #434 Obdicut

Not wanting to pay over half of your income in taxes is un-patriotic? You kill me!

436 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:10:11am

re: #435 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not wanting to pay over half of your income in taxes is un-patriotic? You kill me!

No. Not wanting to is not unpatriotic. Saying you'll actually leave the country because of it, is.

This seriously bugs me. It bugged the shit out of me when people on the anti-war left said they'd move to Canada if we went to war or Bush was re-elected. It bugs the shit out of me when anyone says they'll desert their own country. If you're being actively physically persecuted, sure, but if it's just politics and taxes, I think they're all selfish fuckers.

Believe something ain't right with your country? Fight for it. or why would any other country want you.

437 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:13:35am

re: #436 Obdicut

I actually wholeheartedly agree with this. There's plenty of stuff in America that I don't necessarily agree with; that doesn't give me the right to say, "Screw this, I'm going to <country of choice>." It's almost along the same lines as saying, "Hey, you're not going to let us keep expanding slavery? Screw this, we'll make our own country and we can do what we want." Yeah, it's a related line of thought, folks.

438 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:13:47am

Morning, all. it is a nice morning here in NYC. Sunny, crisp and cool. Like autumn ought to be.

On the topic of race warrior Pat Buchanan, I offer these quotes from his book, by way of TPM:

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

439 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:14:21am

re: #436 Obdicut

This, I presume, applies only to democratic countries.

440 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:14:38am

re: #436 Obdicut

The first time he left Britain, the top rate was 82%, and they charged it.

Leaving that, IMO, is not un-patriotic.

People leave states for other states all the time for the same reasons. My brother-in-law is nearing retirement and part of his "landing spot planning" is the taxes of the area he'll settle to.

441 darthstar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:14:51am

Mornin' everyone...looks like Anonymous has a new target. Child pornographers.

Makes it kind of hard to dislike Anonymous, destructive as they can be.

442 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:15:45am

re: #439 Sergey Romanov

This, I presume, applies only to democratic countries.

Yes, thank you for helping me clarify. I don't consider non-democratic countries to be legitimate, so anyone under them is free to flee them. However, I do think if you're in the power structure of a non-democratic country-- born into the ruling class or whatever-- you do have a moral obligation to use that position to try to reform your country.

443 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:16:21am

re: #441 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...looks like Anonymous has a new target. Child pornographers.

Makes it kind of hard to dislike Anonymous, destructive as they can be.

I saw this. I actually applaud them.

444 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:17:25am

re: #436 Obdicut

No. Not wanting to is not unpatriotic. Saying you'll actually leave the country because of it, is.

This seriously bugs me. It bugged the shit out of me when people on the anti-war left said they'd move to Canada if we went to war or Bush was re-elected. It bugs the shit out of me when anyone says they'll desert their own country. If you're being actively physically persecuted, sure, but if it's just politics and taxes, I think they're all selfish fuckers.

Believe something ain't right with your country? Fight for it. or why would any other country want you.

It may not be an attractive trait, but in thinking about tax policy it is a fact of life that has to be taken into consideration. Money has choices. It always has and it always will. I am unaware of any attempt to confine capital (personal or corporate) within a nation's borders that ended well.

445 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:17:50am

re: #441 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...looks like Anonymous has a new target. Child pornographers.

Makes it kind of hard to dislike Anonymous, destructive as they can be.

No, not really. I still dislike them. However, I definitely applaud their efforts in this direction.

446 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:18:14am

re: #441 darthstar

Old news, and probably a PR trick.

447 darthstar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:19:14am

re: #446 Sergey Romanov

Old news, and probably a PR trick.

October 15, 2011...not too old.

448 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:19:16am
449 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:19:36am

re: #440 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, I disagree. You still have millions of goddamn dollars. You've done amazingly well for yourself inside this society. To then abandon that society is, to me, unpatriotic and selfish.

Otherwise, I think we ought to just go ahead and all form into corporations, rather than countries, now, if people are really just shopping around for the best deal. If we don't actually care about each other as a nation, rather than a cost/benefit spreadsheet analysis, then we should face that cynical fate.

450 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:21:29am

re: #449 Obdicut

Well, I disagree. You still have millions of goddamn dollars. You've done amazingly well for yourself inside this society. To then abandon that society is, to me, unpatriotic and selfish.

Otherwise, I think we ought to just go ahead and all form into corporations, rather than countries, now, if people are really just shopping around for the best deal. If we don't actually care about each other as a nation, rather than a cost/benefit spreadsheet analysis, then we should face that cynical fate.

I call dibs on the name "Weyland-Yutani"!

451 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:21:50am

re: #447 darthstar

Old news in sense that it cropped up in several threads here days ago. They're going after an easy-to-hate target (like Phelpses before this), and while it is good that they're doing this, I don't know if I would give them moral credit for it.

452 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:23:20am

re: #449 Obdicut

Well, I disagree. You still have millions of goddamn dollars. You've done amazingly well for yourself inside this society. To then abandon that society is, to me, unpatriotic and selfish.

Otherwise, I think we ought to just go ahead and all form into corporations, rather than countries, now, if people are really just shopping around for the best deal. If we don't actually care about each other as a nation, rather than a cost/benefit spreadsheet analysis, then we should face that cynical fate.

At least there'll be cool fighter planes.

453 darthstar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:23:23am

re: #449 Obdicut

The only way loopholes work is if they only work for a few elite entities. Once too many people start taking advantage of "corporate personhood" whatever the fuck that means, or any of the tax loopholes cost the government too much money (i.e. the masses get a break), the loophole will be closed.

454 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:24:11am

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

4chan, semi-birthplace of Anon, has always struggled with their own child porn program.

455 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:24:27am

re: #450 Varek Raith

I'll take OCP from the folks using it now.

456 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:24:28am

re: #449 Obdicut

That can also be expanded to "you still have hundreds of thousands of dollars" or "you still have thousands of dollars" or "you still have hundreds of dollars" or "empty the change out of that ash-tray into this bag".

I know and agree that paying taxes is very important. I'm just saying, there is a limit that should be expected of anyone.

457 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:24:59am

re: #456 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And what is this limit?

458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:25:43am

re: #454 Obdicut

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

4chan, semi-birthplace of Anon, has always struggled with their own child porn program.

Maybe they're whacking the competition?

459 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:26:40am

re: #440 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The first time he left Britain, the top rate was 82%, and they charged it.

Leaving that, IMO, is not un-patriotic.

People leave states for other states all the time for the same reasons. My brother-in-law is nearing retirement and part of his "landing spot planning" is the taxes of the area he'll settle to.

Yeah, god forbid he ends up in a place where they pay for people to train as nurses and hip-replacement surgeons.

I mean, who needs that stuff when you're retired?

460 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:26:56am

re: #457 Varek Raith

And what is this limit?

Right now? 35%.

461 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:27:56am

re: #456 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That can also be expanded to "you still have hundreds of thousands of dollars" or "you still have thousands of dollars" or "you still have hundreds of dollars" or "empty the change out of that ash-tray into this bag".

No, it really can't. Quantity matters. Money really does have marginal utility. Someone who has millions of dollars really, really is better off than someone with thousands of dollars.

Quantity is important. It is exactly the quantity of the tax that you're pointing out, rather than its quality, so it's weird that this is your counterargument. If he's complaining about 50% tax, he could complain about 30%, about 10%, about 5%. So what?

I know and agree that paying taxes is very important. I'm just saying, there is a limit that should be expected of anyone.

I agree. I just don't agree that if that limit is exceeded, and you're still a millionaire that it justifies leaving the nation.

462 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:28:01am

re: #457 Varek Raith

I don't know. But I have a philosophical problem with Government (or a combination of the same Government) confiscating more than half of the money that a person makes.

463 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:29:11am

re: #454 Obdicut

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

4chan, semi-birthplace of Anon, has always struggled with their own child porn program.

Didn't know that had such a program - what do you mean by that?

464 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:29:46am

re: #441 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...looks like Anonymous has a new target. Child pornographers.

Makes it kind of hard to dislike Anonymous, destructive as they can be.

Not when they publish Police personal data. Seeing as they seem to put the two in the same category via attacking them. I'm happy they are helping Occupy, but they are a dangerous ally. Unpredictable. Felonious.

465 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:30:23am

re: #458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe they're whacking the competition?

To be fair, the admins at 4chan have actually called the cops on child porn posters. But it's inconsistently policed.

Before they discovered their white horse and sword, /b/ was known as the "Asshole of the internet"

466 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:30:24am

re: #462 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't know. But I have a philosophical problem with Government (or a combination of the same Government) confiscating more than half of the money that a person makes.

This is a bizarre comment. Why half? Why not 75%?

Is it because it's easy to divide a pizza into two pieces? Or because we have two hands each?

We also have five fingers on each hand - why not 80% as a "natural common-sense tax bracket"?

467 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:30:29am

re: #463 Sergey Romanov

Didn't know that had such a program - what do you mean by that?

Right now, "CP" is about the only thing that you can't post on 4chan at all. This includes the /b/ "random aka anything goes" board.

468 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:30:39am

re: #463 Sergey Romanov

Didn't know that had such a program - what do you mean by that?

Heh. Sorry. I meant problem.

469 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:31:00am

oops - bbl

470 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:31:49am

re: #468 Obdicut

ok

471 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:31:59am

re: #461 Obdicut

I have a very well to do friend who's attorney has found a loophole which has eliminated (AND I MEAN ZERO) his taxes in my state.

Completely legal, and my friend takes full advantage of it.

That loophole should sooo be closed.

472 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:32:06am

re: #467 laZardo

Right now, "CP" is about the only thing that you can't post on 4chan at all. This includes the /b/ "random aka anything goes" board.

I never understood the imageboards.

473 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:33:03am

re: #466 iossarian

We also have five fingers on each hand - why not 80% as a "natural common-sense tax bracket"?

Because 80% is fucking psychotic.

474 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:33:23am

re: #465 Obdicut

To be fair, the admins at 4chan have actually called the cops on child porn posters. But it's inconsistently policed.

Before they discovered their white horse and sword, /b/ was known as the "Asshole of the internet"

They still are. They've just found a few ways to not be complete douchemonsters.

475 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:33:49am

re: #473 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Because 80% is fucking psychotic.

No, 80% is easy if it's not your 80%.

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:34:49am

re: #475 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, 80% is easy if it's not your 80%.

That's for fucking sure.

477 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:35:24am

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's for fucking sure.

I would be fine with an 80% inheritance tax. I'm going to inherit property that would make me directly affected by that.*


*unless The Big One hits San Francisco. Then it may be worth whatever 10 tons of rubble is worth.

478 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:35:27am

I'll take GE's income tax burden of -60%.

479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:37:00am

I don't even think it is appropriate to take 80% from Adam Sandler!

480 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:37:39am

The proposals I've heard/read want to return the top rate to, what, ~39%?
Yeah, woe are the wealthy.

481 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:37:57am

re: #479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't even think it is appropriate to take 80% from Adam Sandler!

He should be taxed 110%./

482 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:38:45am

re: #481 Sergey Romanov

He should be taxed 110%./

Plus damages for inflicting psychological trauma.
/

483 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:39:47am

re: #482 Cannadian Club Akbar

Plus damages for inflicting psychological trauma.
/

Yep. Otherwise, let him do his thing. I he will want to.//

484 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:42:03am

I think part of the reason people want "the rich" to pay more taxes is that the Ebenezer Scrooges of the world are so good at finding ways out of paying their fair share of the tax burden. If we just eliminated a lot of the loopholes and tax breaks, and charged a simple progressive tax across the board, it'd accomplish a couple of big goals:
1) Easier for individual Americans to file their own taxes.
2) Easier for government to hold individuals responsible for failure to pay.
3) Easier to ensure that everyone pays a fair amount, making tax breaks a true incentive rather than "just another loophole".

485 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:43:08am

re: #481 Sergey Romanov

He should be taxed 110%./

Too low.
Make that infinity.

486 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:43:46am

re: #472 Sergey Romanov

Then you should lurk more and EMBRACE THE MAGIC. O_O

487 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:43:51am

re: #484 thedopefishlives

It's actually very easy for most people to file their taxes, using standard deductions and all that. But otherwise, very true.

I also think the capital gains tax should be tied to inflation, and otherwise put at the normal income tax level.

488 darthstar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:43:58am
489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:44:15am

re: #477 Obdicut

Obviously you don't care about those things. That's admirable. Others do care.

No one is stopping you from donating your 80% wherever you see fit. No one. You're wanting to force others to do the same thing is unfortunate, in my opinion.

490 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:44:54am

re: #486 laZardo

Then you should lurk more and EMBRACE THE MAGIC. O_O

Hello?!?!
YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT /b/!
It's only the first two rules!
:P

491 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:46:15am

re: #489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Obviously you don't care about those things. That's admirable. Others do care.

No one is stopping you from donating your 80% wherever you see fit. No one. You're wanting to force others to do the same thing is unfortunate, in my opinion.

You know what's more unfortunate?
The GOP shifting the tax burden on to the poor.

492 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:46:34am

re: #487 Obdicut

It's actually very easy for most people to file their taxes, using standard deductions and all that.

Well, you know that and I know that, but if you asked Joe American about tax preparation, he'd probably try to club you so he could get away. It's a public perception thing more than an actual reality.

493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:46:41am

re: #484 thedopefishlives

I just fucking hate the word "fair".

Entirely too subjective.

494 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:46:47am

re: #486 laZardo

Then you should lurk more and EMBRACE THE MAGIC. O_O

What I've seen myself has been just dumb/boring. Although I do find some exploits (as related at lurkmore.ru) to be entertaining (if not always funny [nsfw]]).

495 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:47:06am

What if the least confrontational chapter of Occupy got a Banking law passed by the LA City Council?

496 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:47:37am

re: #489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Obviously you don't care about those things. That's admirable. Others do care.
.

It's not that I don't care. That would mean losing my grandmother's house-- unless i manage to make millions before now and then. It'd hurt. But I think it'd be worth it, since our society is in a lot of peril from the divide between rich and poor. I'm not actually advocating for a rate that high, though. I'm saying personally I'd be fine with it.

No one is stopping you from donating your 80% wherever you see fit. No one. You're wanting to force others to do the same thing is unfortunate, in my opinion

Well I don't want to do 'it' to others. What I actually want for the inheritance tax is a progressive tax with a lot of steps to it.

497 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:48:12am

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just fucking hate the word "fair".

Entirely too subjective.

Oh, I agree. It's such a loaded term. I hate putting it in there, but to be honest, that is the crux of the tax debate. What is "fair" to make people give over to the government? You ask 10 different people, you'll get 11 different answers.

498 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:48:25am

re: #495 Rightwingconspirator

Hundred percent behind that one.

499 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:48:34am

How is life this morning Lizards?

500 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:49:13am

re: #494 Sergey Romanov

Oh, that's why they call him "Flagstock-kun."

also gratuitous swastikas always get an extra laugh out of me.

501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:50:08am

re: #496 Obdicut

I was just thinking about Paris Hilton.

Should her tax be based on the value of the estate, or the value of the estate with PARIS HILTON running the estate!?!?

502 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:51:12am

Are we taking tax policy again?
Consider this and how the GOP shifted the burden-Or not so exclusively as some may insist...

How Bill Clinton Helped Boost CEO Pay
A law he championed to curb compensation has backfired -- and pay packages have exploded

Bill Clinton had what he thought was a great idea to curb the soaring paychecks of the nation's executives. It was 1991, shortly after the launch of his Presidential campaign, and he had just read a best seller on corporate greed by compensation guru Graef Crystal.


Clinton's brainstorm: Use the tax code to curb excessive pay. Companies at the time were allowed to deduct all compensation to top executives. Clinton wanted to permit companies to write off amounts over $1 million only if executives hit specified performance goals. He called Crystal for his thoughts. "Utterly stupid," the consultant says he told the future President.

THE SHAME GAME
Now, 13 years after Clinton's plan became law, the results are clear: It didn't work. Over the law's first decade, average compensation for chief executives at companies in Standard & Poor's 500-stock index soared from $3.7 million to $9.1 million, according to a 2005 Harvard Law School study. The law contains so many obvious loopholes, says Crystal, that "in 10 minutes even Forrest Gump could think up five ways around it."

From the Internal Revenue Service to corporate boardrooms, Clinton's remedy has become the biggest inside joke in the long history of efforts to rein in executive pay. It has allowed companies to take deductions for executive pay tied to goals as vague as "individual achievement of personal commitments" (BellSouth Corp.(BLS ) or improving "customer satisfaction" (Dell Inc. (DELL )). Energy giant AES Corp. (AES ) for a time demanded that its top people maintain a workplace that was "fun."

503 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:51:29am

re: #500 laZardo

You knew about this meme or just wondered why he was called that for a few seconds?

504 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:51:29am

re: #497 thedopefishlives

I feel it's really not fair that some people are born just not that bright to parents without much means. They have virtually no chance of really competing with other people in the workplace and being able to make a lot of money. Comparatively.

There's also people who are just not that bright and make a lot of bad financial decisions-- like playing the lottery, which I think is a fucking travesty for the government to do-- and so they lose that way, too.

505 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:51:42am

re: #501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was just thinking about Paris Hilton.

Should her tax be based on the value of the estate, or the value of the estate with PARIS HILTON running the estate!?!?

Either way, the government should just get the whole thing. It's for the public good.

506 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:54:07am

re: #503 Sergey Romanov

You knew about this meme or just wondered why he was called that for a few seconds?

For some reason I can read most Cyrillic letters. So I could somehow figure out where that name comes from.

As for how he became "Flagstock-kun," I can't read Russian. ;_;

507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:54:10am

re: #497 thedopefishlives

Michael Moore has an idea of "fair".
Donald Trump has an idea of "fair".
Barack Obama has an idea of "fair".
Herman Cain has an idea of "fair".
My daughter, who dropped out of school and just got a $7.50 an hour job has an idea of "fair".

My kids used to say, "That's not fair!"
I'd say, "Life is only fair the 6th Thursday of a month."

508 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:55:03am

re: #506 laZardo

For some reason I can read most Cyrillic letters. So I could somehow figure out where that name comes from.

As for how he became "Flagstock-kun," I can't read Russian. ;_;

Google tr. is your friend, tho I gather you already got it from the photos.

509 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:55:46am

I'm having a lot of issues with taxes.

Income tax does not begin to tap into the "stored" wealth of the super-rich. How do we get at that money and be fair to the people who have accumulated it? Geez, they did earn it, after all.

510 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:55:50am

re: #507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't want what's fair. I want what will work. I'm a pragmatist.

What isn't going to work is the current trick-down economics combined with unregulated financial industry thing we've got going. That's not working. Demonstrably.

511 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:56:58am

re: #504 Obdicut

I hate the lottery with my mind/body/spirit.

That? IMO is the single worst thing the government has ever done to the poor.

512 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:57:29am

re: #509 ggt

Some did. Many inherited it. And the inheritance tax is how it's 'tapped into'. The ultra-wealthy can work around that tax by doing things like setting up trusts, but if those laws are well-written it accomplishes the goal; to keep that money moving, to decentralize it.

513 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:57:31am

re: #510 Obdicut

I don't want what's fair. I want what will work. I'm a pragmatist.

What isn't going to work is the current trick-down economics combined with unregulated financial industry thing we've got going. That's not working. Demonstrably.

People will find a way to wheedle an advantage from any system. THAT, IMHO is the problem.

514 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:58:42am

re: #511 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hate the lottery with my mind/body/spirit.

That? IMO is the single worst thing the government has ever done to the poor.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

This is us right now:

Image: 202_nice.jpg

515 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:58:46am

re: #513 ggt

People will find a way to wheedle an advantage from any system. THAT, IMHO is the problem.

Because the people who write the system, have "a way to wheedle an advanage" built into it.

516 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 6:59:26am

re: #513 ggt

People will find a way to wheedle an advantage from any system. THAT, IMHO is the problem.

But some systems are more resistant to wheedling than others. Greece, for example, turns out to have been an open drainpipe, a total sieve. Other countries are far better at tax compliance. So again, quantity matters. Every system is hackable; not all systems are equally hackable.

517 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:00:18am

re: #511 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hate the lottery with my mind/body/spirit.

That? IMO is the single worst thing the government has ever done to the poor.

Well we got the lottery in Florida so we could put more money into education. Now, we're living the dream!!
///

518 RadicalModerate  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:01:03am

re: #467 laZardo

Right now, "CP" is about the only thing that you can't post on 4chan at all. This includes the /b/ "random aka anything goes" board.

I think that it is quite interesting that the only two things that are insta-bans on /b/ now are CP and "My Little Pony"

And a little disturbing.

519 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:01:19am

re: #514 Obdicut

You and I, standing solidly in agreement.

Hells yes!

520 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:03:18am

I have issues with gambling. Big issues, so it is difficult for me to be objective.

The lottery, casino's, Wall Street . . .

People are going to be people and we can only, as a society, put up so many boundries.

In the end, people have to suffer from their own mistakes. It just a pisser that those in Congress (IMHO) are allowed to find ways not to suffer.

We delegate power to them and they abuse it.

521 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:03:53am

re: #519 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You and I, standing solidly in agreement.

Hells yes!

That? Very suspicious.

/

522 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:04:09am

re: #516 Obdicut

But some systems are more resistant to wheedling than others. Greece, for example, turns out to have been an open drainpipe, a total sieve. Other countries are far better at tax compliance. So again, quantity matters. Every system is hackable; not all systems are equally hackable.

One of the first things you learn as a computer scientist. There's no such thing as bulletproof, because they can always make a bigger bullet; it's a matter of how bullet-resistant it is.

523 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:04:13am

re: #519 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You and I, standing solidly in agreement.

Hells yes!

GET A ROOM!
Sheesh.
/

524 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:05:03am

re: #519 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You and I, standing solidly in agreement.

Hells yes!

*cough*
Ahem. The flying pigs are knocking on my window. They tell me that Satan has placed an order to trade his pitchfork for a spoon.

Bastards.

525 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:05:21am

re: #519 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

GGAAHHHHH

our wondrous IT dept decided to do some sort of flush of our e-mail servers early this a.m. and somehow, somewhere, I've lost your e-mail addy!!

526 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:06:31am

bbl

527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:06:36am

re: #511 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hate the lottery with my mind/body/spirit.

That? IMO is the single worst thing the government has ever done to the poor.

That is the most effective way the government has ever found to tax the poor and have them look forward to it!

Ever been in a poor area's convenience store on payday? Absolutely sickening.

Folks tell me all the time (after realizing they can't afford the project that they've asked me to design), "After I win the lottery..." My standard response?

"You won't. I have almost as good a chance as you, and I don't play the lottery. It is a tax on people who are bad at math"."

They love me after that.

528 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:08:24am

re: #519 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You and I, standing solidly in agreement.

Hells yes!

And on that note, i'm going to go do some work.

I'll leave everyone with this:

529 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:08:26am

re: #518 RadicalModerate

I think that it is quite interesting that the only two things that are insta-bans on /b/ now are CP and "My Little Pony"

And a little disturbing.

MLP gave Anon a heart.

In return, MLP was introduced to...the internet. [note: nsfw]

530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:08:37am

Nic is blue

531 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:09:04am

re: #527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

People who have those little plastic holders for their lotto ticket cards piss me off.

532 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:09:09am
533 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:11:43am

Lottery is the opium of the masses.

534 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:12:52am

How many "Lottery Winner busted, impoverished and homeless 5 years later" stories have we heard?

535 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:13:35am

re: #534 Alouette

How many "Lottery Winner busted and impoverished 5 years later" stories have we heard?

Many many more than "Psychic Wins Lottery" ones!!!
/

536 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:14:23am

re: #530 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nic is blue

done,, thanks

537 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:14:52am

re: #534 Alouette

How many "Lottery Winner busted, impoverished and homeless 5 years later" stories have we heard?

Didn't one guy get something like 350K in cash stolen out of his truck while he was in a strip club?

538 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:14:54am

re: #534 Alouette

How many "Lottery Winner busted and impoverished 5 years later" stories have we heard?

Way too many. Some people are just completely incapable of reining in their baser instincts.

539 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:17:52am

re: #537 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't one guy get something like 350K in cash stolen out of his truck while he was in a strip club?

On August 5, 2003, thieves smashed the driver’s window of his SUV, which was parked at the Pink Pony strip club in Cross Lanes, W.Va., and stole a briefcase containing $245,000 in cash and three $100,000 cashier’s checks belonging to Whittaker.
[Link: www.cafeterra.info...]

The first guy mentioned in this article is (was) from around here.

540 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:20:52am

re: #539 Cannadian Club Akbar

On August 5, 2003, thieves smashed the driver’s window of his SUV, which was parked at the Pink Pony strip club in Cross Lanes, W.Va., and stole a briefcase containing $245,000 in cash and three $100,000 cashier’s checks belonging to Whittaker.

...why

541 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:22:07am

re: #540 laZardo

re: #539 Cannadian Club Akbar

On August 5, 2003, thieves smashed the driver’s window of his SUV, which was parked at the Pink Pony strip club in Cross Lanes, W.Va., and stole a briefcase containing $245,000 in cash and three $100,000 cashier’s checks belonging to Whittaker.

Because.

542 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:22:44am

re: #539 Cannadian Club Akbar

On August 5, 2003, thieves smashed the driver’s window of his SUV, which was parked at the Pink Pony strip club in Cross Lanes, W.Va., and stole a briefcase containing $245,000 in cash and three $100,000 cashier’s checks belonging to Whittaker.
[Link: www.cafeterra.info...]

The first guy mentioned in this article is (was) from around here.

Yeah. Because if I suddenly came into $245,000 or more my first thoughts would be to go to some lowlife strip joint. And bring the cash along with me.

What a loser.

543 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:22:45am

re: #540 laZardo

...why

What part of STRIP didn't you understand?

544 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:24:37am

re: #542 Gus 802

Yeah. Because if I suddenly came into $245,000 or more my first thoughts would be to go to some lowlife strip joint. And bring the cash along with me.

What a loser.

He was already rich. And won a bit more than $245K:
On December 25, 2002, West Virginia building contractor Andrew Jackson “Jack” Whittaker Jr. (pictured above right) won $315 million in the Powerball multi-state lottery, at that time the largest jackpot in history won by a single person. Whittaker, already worth an estimated $17 million at the time, famously pledged 10% of his winnings to various Christian charities and created the Jack Whittaker Foundation with another $14 million.

545 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:24:47am

re: #543 sattv4u2

The part where my mind apparently interprets it that ponies are involved.

I blame the internet.

546 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:25:27am

re: #544 Cannadian Club Akbar

He was already rich. And won a bit more than $245K:
On December 25, 2002, West Virginia building contractor Andrew Jackson “Jack” Whittaker Jr. (pictured above right) won $315 million in the Powerball multi-state lottery, at that time the largest jackpot in history won by a single person. Whittaker, already worth an estimated $17 million at the time, famously pledged 10% of his winnings to various Christian charities and created the Jack Whittaker Foundation with another $14 million.

Bleh. Think I'm going to be sick.

547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:28:35am

re: #538 thedopefishlives

That's why I think that if the government recalled ever dollar in America and re-distributed it equally... it wouldn't take long... the rich'd be rich again and the poor'd be poor again.

548 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:29:47am

re: #547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's why I think that if the government recalled ever dollar in America and re-distributed it equally... it wouldn't take long... the rich'd be rich again and the poor'd be poor again.

Well, there'd be some people, like me, who would make the transition from poor to rich(er). But for every me out there, there'd be a hundred other people who would blow every cent they were given, then cry to the government that "It's not fair! I want another do-over!"

549 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:35:25am

re: #547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hmmm...
Are you implying the poor are at fault for them being poor?

550 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:35:28am

re: #548 thedopefishlives

Some people don't know what to do with windfalls. (granted, not all people did this)
[Link: www.snopes.com...]

551 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:39:26am

re: #549 Varek Raith

Hmmm...
Are you implying the poor are at fault for them being poor?

I read it as poor people don't know how to hang onto money.

552 AK-47%  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:40:08am

People will always try to avoid paying taxes. That is a human constant. But it is more of a cultural thing to determine the tax rate at which most people will start putting more effort into tax evasion than in actually earning more money.

That seems to be the crux of the current tax discussion. Right now our tax system makes it more profitable for GE to mainain the largest legal department in the than to invest those resources into something profitable.

553 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:40:22am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The protests continue at Zuccotti Park, but I'm not sure how much longer they're going to camp out there as the weather has turned colder and there's more dissension in the ranks over where and how money raised is being spent (and on who it is being spent).

Yet, the massive income inequalities remain and most of the country is seeing their wages decline against higher costs of living. Lack of meaningful raises and no COLAs means that people are seeing a decline in their take home after taxes and costs. That's not a system that can be sustained for much longer.

Oh, and as to the discussion about lotteries - it was a few months back that Massachussetts had to adjust their lottery system, because some people/companies/entities ran the numbers and figured out how to game the system so they could profit from buying large numbers of tickets during roll-down weeks. If there's a system - there's a mathematical solution to figure out what is necessary to beat it.

554 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:42:32am

Good news...

WikiLeaks halts publication to raise money

A financial blockade by Bank of America, VISA, MasterCard, PayPal and Western Union has destroyed 95% of WikiLeaks' revenue, organization founder Julian Assange said.

"Our scarce resources now must focus entirely on fighting this unlawful banking blockade," Assange said. "If this financial attack stands unchallenged, a dangerous, oppressive and undemocratic precedent will have been set, the implications of which go far beyond WikiLeaks and its work."

555 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:43:27am

Colorado Lotto odds are 1 in 5,245,786. You would have to spend $5,245,786 to guarantee you would win $1.5 million on any given week. After taxes that would be about $750,000. Net loss would be $4,495,786.

//

556 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:43:47am

re: #552 ralphieboy

GE has a huge tax department not only to deal with minimizing its tax burden under the law, but because it operates in so many jurisdictions that it has to comply with the tax laws of 50 states and dozens of foreign countries with which it does business. That's the nature of multinationals in general, but GE does a better job than most of minimizing its tax burdens.

The problem arises when the tax department becomes a profit center in its own right - as it did for a couple of years during the recession when it was able to generate a profit for the company even when its actual products (including GE capital) lost money. Rules for depreciation and investment in equipment also factors into manufacturers' tax policies - since they can write down investments made for manufacturing that another business wouldn't be able to take advantage of. Same with R&D costs or other incentives designed to encourage business growth.

557 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:44:21am

re: #554 Killgore Trout

Good news...

WikiLeaks halts publication to raise money

Alas. A cure for cancer.

558 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:49:05am

Twelve Pretty Racist Or Just Crazy Quotes From Pat Buchanan’s New Book

Excerpts:

On the group UNITY: Journalists of Color, Inc. pushing for more diversity in journalism:

Half a century after Martin Luther King envisioned a day when his children would be judged ‘not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character,’ journalists of color are demanding the hiring and promotion of journalists based on the color of their skin. Jim Crow is back. Only the color of the beneficiaries and the color of the victims have been reversed.

Also from the chapter, “The End Of White America”:

Those who believe the rise to power of an Obama rainbow coalition of peoples of color means the whites who helped to engineer it will steer it are deluding themselves. The whites may discover what it is like to ride in the back of the bus.

559 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:49:22am

re: #549 Varek Raith

Are you implying the poor are at fault for them being poor?

Sorry. Wasn't ignoring that just had to re-boot.

Here's what I mean.

In the inner-cities and rural poor areas there are companies that set up for tax season. During tax season? The sole pupose of those businesses are to separate as much EIC and Refund money as possible from the poor. They are spectacularly successful.

Entrepreneurial minded folks will (both with and without scruples) separate them from their new found wealth with an expedience that would impress... uh... someone very impressed with expediency.

Some of the poor would rise, but most would not.

I guess it's entirely a anecdotal discussion... but it's what I think.

560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:52:39am

re: #558 Gus 802

Half a century after Martin Luther King envisioned a day when his children would be judged ‘not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character,’ journalists of color are demanding the hiring and promotion of journalists based on the color of their skin. Jim Crow is back. Only the color of the beneficiaries and the color of the victims have been reversed.

So, is this one racist or is it just crazy?

561 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:54:03am

re: #559 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ok, I get ya.

562 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:54:05am

I wonder if this august group would agree on a few modest tax principles:

There is nothing wrong with a graduated income tax so long as the top marginal rates aren't so high that they are confiscatory.

A simpler tax code with fewer deductions would be a good thing.

Current attempts to moderate high-end corporate compensation have failed, but the topic deserves anther look.

563 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:54:33am

re: #560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, is this one racist or is it just crazy?

He's on Team Evil.

564 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:55:02am

re: #560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, is this one racist or is it just crazy?

Both or in Buchanan's words "Jim Crow is back. Only the color of the beneficiaries and the color of the victims have been reversed." Imagine comparing what blacks went through with Jim Crow laws (which included lynchings) to what I see as bunch of white man's belly aching.

565 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:57:13am

re: #559 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have worked with plenty of people who already have their plan in place to spend their tax refund before the stamp even hits the envelope.

566 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:57:28am

re: #554 Killgore Trout

That's actually a reason for me to support WikiLeaks. The banks don't want more of their dirty laundry aired.

567 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:57:34am

Way, way OT:

"Hearing loops".

A great idea.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

568 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:59:41am

re: #562 garhighway

I wonder if this august group would agree on a few modest tax principles:

There is nothing wrong with a graduated income tax so long as the top marginal rates aren't so high that they are confiscatory.

A simpler tax code with fewer deductions would be a good thing.

Current attempts to moderate high-end corporate compensation have failed, but the topic deserves anther look.

Yes. Enthusiastically? Yes.

569 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:00:31am

re: #564 Gus 802

I was thinking it was both.

570 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:02:03am

re: #569 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was thinking it was both.

You would think MSNBC would... Oh, never mind. They're hopeless.

571 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:03:17am

re: #565 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have worked with plenty of people who already have their plan in place to spend their tax refund before the stamp even hits the envelope.

That is not necessarily a bad thing. I know exactly what my tax refund is going to go toward. I've known ever since my tax refund came in THIS year.

572 recusancy  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:03:51am
573 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:05:32am

re: #572 recusancy

"which consisted of chemicals poured into a plastic Gatorade container."

Jenkem.

///

574 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:05:43am

The latest on Libya within the context of the Sharia spasms in the blogosphere:

Libya leader orders investigation of Gadhafi death
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press

Abdul-Jalil declared the country liberated on Sunday, launching the oil-rich nation on what is meant to be a two-year transition to democracy. But he also laid out plans with an Islamist tone that could rattle their Western backers. He said Islamic Sharia law would be the "basic source" of legislation, and that existing laws that contradict the teachings of Islam would be nullified.

Using Sharia as the main source of legislation is stipulated in the constitution of neighboring Egypt. Still, Egyptian laws remain largely secular as Egypt's interpretation of Sharia does not cover all aspects of modern life, while Saudi Arabia and Iran apply much more strict interpretations.

Abdul-Jalil also outlined several changes to align with Islamic law such as banning banks from paying interest and lifting restrictions on the number of wives Libyan men can take. The Muslim holy book, the Quran, allows men up to four wives.

Mindful of the concern, Abdul-Jalil said Monday he was referring to a temporary constitution and said he wanted to "assure the international community that we as Libyans are moderate Muslims."

Also:

Libya Will Be a ‘Moderate Muslim Nation,’ NTC Chairman Says
October 24, 2011, 10:38 AM EDT
By Caroline Alexander, Ola Galal and Robert Tuttle

Oct. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Mustafa Abdel Jalil, chairman of Libya’s National Transitional Council, sought to give assurances that the country will be a moderate Muslim nation, amid concern the interim government wants to adopt a strict Islamic tone.

“Libyans are Muslims, but we are moderate Muslims,” Abdel Jalil said in the eastern city of Benghazi today, following his vow to scrap statutes that don’t conform to Islamic law. The changes would include the banning of interest on housing loans and the application of the Islamic legal code to marriage and divorce, he said yesterday after announcing the country’s “liberation” following the death of Muammar Qaddafi...

575 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:06:38am

re: #571 thedopefishlives

That is not necessarily a bad thing. I know exactly what my tax refund is going to go toward. I've known ever since my tax refund came in THIS year.

I should have been more specific. New TV, trip to Disney, new gaming console, etc. Not bills, not a new fridge, no rainy day funds.

576 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:07:07am

re: #560 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, is this one racist or is it just crazy?

OMG! White people have to compete!

/

577 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:09:05am

re: #575 Cannadian Club Akbar

I should have been more specific. New TV, trip to Disney, new gaming console, etc. Not bills, not a new fridge, no rainy day funds.

Mine usually goes to whatever summer program the kid has decided to participate in. This year, it's probably going to his first year college fund--or related expenses.

578 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:09:41am

re: #574 Gus 802

Let's hope so.

579 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:11:27am

re: #576 ggt

OMG! White people have to compete!

/

Basically what the blowhard is saying is "black men are taking white men's jobs through affirmative action!"

Which of course is complete and utter bullshit.

580 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:11:31am
581 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:12:23am

re: #578 Sergey Romanov

Let's hope so.

Yep. It's better to wait than to sound like a blithering hysterical fool. 24 hour rule times 100.

582 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:12:44am

And lest you think that the GOP isn't open to the idea of adjusting deductions and credits - consider that the Bush Administration was looking to curb the mortgage interest deduction back in 2005/2006:

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

To avoid dire scenarios, Washington would likely do away with the mortgage deduction in a gentle fashion. The tax advisory panel convened by President George W. Bush in 2005 suggested replacing the deduction with a tax credit equal to 15 percent of interest paid. In 2009, the Bowles-Simpson Commission proposed an annual tax credit of 12 percent, limiting interest to first homes and mortgages up to $500,000.
Unlike tax deductions, tax credits can be claimed by all taxpayers, including those who do not itemize their taxes. That could help a greater number of lower- and middle-income people afford houses. Green estimates that a 15 percent mortgage-interest tax credit would boost homeownership by 2.5 percentage points.

The mortgage deduction could once again be a target for deficit cutters. According to a 2009 Congressional Budget Office analysis, gradually replacing the mortgage deduction with a 15 percent credit would yield $388 billion from 2013 to 2019. Such savings could prove tempting to the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction, which is charged with finding at least $1.5 trillion in deficit savings over the next 10 years.

In 2010, a similar proposal was proffered to no effect. The deficit commission would likely follow a similar tact - and I would expect serious resistance to it in Congress even though it could result in significant revenues and reduce market distortion (and I say that as someone who benefits as a homeowner).

583 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:14:23am

re: #581 Gus 802

Yep. It's better to wait than to sound like a blithering hysterical fool. 24 hour rule times 100.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove any doubt."

584 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:14:25am

WTF

Police appeal over burnt man death
Detectives play down speculation of homophobic attack after Stuart Walker's scorched body found on roadside in Ayrshire

Police in Ayrshire are appealing for help in piecing together the final hours of a man whose burnt body was found on an industrial estate at the weekend, amid speculation in the local community that he may have been the victim of a homophobic attack.

Stuart Walker, 28, of Cumnock in East Ayrshire, was found dead on Saturday morning by the side of a road in the town's Caponacre industrial estate with "horrible injuries".

Walker had been out with friends in the former mining community on Friday night and was last seen by a family friend at about 2.30am on Saturday. His scorched body was found by the side of the road shortly before 5am.

Strathclyde police said they were looking at all aspects of Walker's life as they tried to establish why he was killed, but have played down fears that he may have been the victim of a homophobic attack. Police have said reports that he had been tied to a lamppost were incorrect.

Detectives are checking CCTV footage and making door-to-door inquiries in an effort to trace Walker's last movements...

585 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:16:23am

re: #581 Gus 802

Of course, we should take into account that Jalil would say something like that in any case to reassure the (Western) public.

586 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:18:38am

re: #582 lawhawk

And lest you think that the GOP isn't open to the idea of adjusting deductions and credits - consider that the Bush Administration was looking to curb the mortgage interest deduction back in 2005/2006:

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

In 2010, a similar proposal was proffered to no effect. The deficit commission would likely follow a similar tact - and I would expect serious resistance to it in Congress even though it could result in significant revenues and reduce market distortion (and I say that as someone who benefits as a homeowner).

The mortgage deduction is the classic example. As an abstract policy question, everyone targets it. But the real estate industry has incredible pull, so what happens in real life is an entirely different question.

587 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:19:42am

re: #585 Sergey Romanov

What's your impression after talking to Brad last night. It seems to be he's sticking to his Jewish Lobby theory that Republicans are servants of Israel but I was wondering how others here are reacting.

588 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:20:37am

SAVE A PRETZEL FOR THE GAS JETS!

589 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:23:20am

re: #587 Killgore Trout

Contrarian far left guy. What's there to say beyond that? I don't like his tricks, like "1st amdt" defense. But I don't think he's an antisemite either.

590 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:23:34am

More bank bailouts on the way...
Stocks up on earnings, deal news

European leaders said they made progress at a weekend summit, but they likely won't unveil concrete plans to help resolve the crisis until Wednesday. Plans are likely to include measures to recapitalize the region's banks, which are expected to accept steep losses on Greek debt, as well as boosting the eurozone bailout fund.

"All eyes are very much on European leaders' attempts to find a workable solution to the ongoing debt crisis," said Stan Shamu of IG Markets. He noted "encouraging signs of progress emerging over the weekend" helped boost early trading in stock markets.

591 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:26:12am

re: #574 Gus 802

The media and rwnj are casting the Tunisian elections in terms of an Islamist victory, but the reports are light (nonexistent) on who and what the various groups that are likely to win elections stand for and what they'd actually do in power.

The Ennahda party appears to be in a position to win a significant percentage of the votes and seats in the parliament, but that's only the first step to writing a new constitution or putting in place a new government and economic policies. If they can't put together a government that provides for economic opportunities and freedom, the Islamists (no matter how extreme or moderate they may turn out to be) will be tossed out too. The vote count is on....

592 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:26:16am

How do you train a dog to leave the room when he has to "break wind"?

593 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:27:07am

re: #591 lawhawk

The media and rwnj are casting the Tunisian elections in terms of an Islamist victory, but the reports are light (nonexistent) on who and what the various groups that are likely to win elections stand for and what they'd actually do in power.

The Ennahda party appears to be in a position to win a significant percentage of the votes and seats in the parliament, but that's only the first step to writing a new constitution or putting in place a new government and economic policies. If they can't put together a government that provides for economic opportunities and freedom, the Islamists (no matter how extreme or moderate they may turn out to be) will be tossed out too. The vote count is on...

IMHO, elections themselves are a sign of a democratic victory --no?

594 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:27:40am

re: #589 Sergey Romanov

I was a little surprised he'd never run into the concept of not tolerating intolerance before. And I don't really know why he felt I was trying to discredit Occupy.

595 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:28:42am

re: #589 Sergey Romanov

Contrarian far left guy. What's there to say beyond that? I don't like his tricks, like "1st amdt" defense.

I would agree with that assessment.

But I don't think he's an antisemite either.

Well, I don't think it's core to his ideology but he does have certain ideas that go beyond legitimate criticism and enter antisemitic territory. Sadly, his ideas are not all that uncommon in certain circles.

596 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:29:12am

It looks like the Obama campaign has concluded that Romney's going to win the nomination.

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Excerpt:

Until recently, Obama’s re-election team had mostly left tough attacks on the GOP field to the Democratic National Committee, state parties, and outside groups like ex-White House staffer Bill Burton’s Priorities USA. But as the campaign has ratcheted up its direct attacks in the last few weeks, Romney especially has come under fire.

David Axelrod raised eyebrows recently when he called out Romney as a flip-flopper in unusually strong terms, saying that the former governor “is as vehement and as strong in his convictions when he takes one position as he is when he takes the diametrically opposite position.”

“We’re not picking the nominee and we’re not assuming he’ll be the nominee,” Axelrod said in a conference call with reporters. “But he deserves to be scrutinized carefully because what he’s saying is stunningly inconsistent.”

597 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:29:17am

re: #592 ggt

How do you train a dog to leave the room when he has to "break wind"?

Reward him with a burrito.
/

598 laZardo  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:30:22am

Welp, bedtime. Catch yall in the moarnin.

599 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:30:55am

re: #594 Obdicut

He seems to have preconceptions about the LGF community (not helped by windy's comment either). I didn't find him intellectually rigorous so to say. Lots of demagoguery. But whatever. I just hope SFZ has a word with him too.

600 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:31:15am

re: #595 Killgore Trout

I didn't see him express anything that was antisemitic, except his non-defense defense of Adbusters, calling them 'gutsy'. That seems more to feed into his odd view that simply expressing a view is something to be defender, rather than the right of people to express that view being defended. Other than that, nothing he said is antisemitic.

601 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:31:25am

re: #594 Obdicut

And I don't really know why he felt I was trying to discredit Occupy.

It's what people do to defend their group. I never accused every Tea Partier of being a Birch Society disciple but was accused of it constantly. OWS defenders use the same technique, it's just human nature.

602 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:32:21am

re: #595 Killgore Trout

I would say in-group criticism often consists of more "sharp" arguments, that might be considered inappropriate when coming from outside.

603 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:32:47am

re: #593 ggt

An election is not in itself democracy.

Free, fair and repeated elections are a sign of democracy.

After all, you've got elections in Iran since 1979, but the mullahs control the process, pick the candidates that can be voted upon, and supersede the will of the people as necessary. That's not a democracy (or a republic) no matter what they call it.

Iraq under Saddam had elections, but they weren't free.

The Palestinians held elections once - but haven't been able to agree on holding a second election since, even though the Palestinian Charter required one.

All through Africa, Central America, and Latin America, there were repeated examples of leaders getting elected once, and then gaming the system, ignoring the system outright, to remain in power.

So - it really takes more than a single election to guarantee democracy. It's a step in a process towards democratic ideals.

Don't get me wrong. It's a big step, but it's one that has to be repeated. With Tunisia, this government will be trusted with forming a new constitution and holding new elections in a year. Those are huge steps showing that the Tunisians have embraced a process where there's a peaceful transition from one government to the next - even if the policies are quite different from one government to the next.

604 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:32:52am

As usual, Lizards, I value your input.

605 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:33:36am

Uh oh.

NJ Republican Pol Having a Rentboy Scandal

Another day, another weird sex-related news story starring a Republican politician from New Jersey. Today's installment stars Medford mayor and one-time Congressional candidate Chris Myers, who allegedly has a thing for blue Calvin Klein underpants and also rentboys—though maybe not, because have you heard about the nefarious things people do with this Photoshop computer-program stuff?

Image: medford.jpg

606 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:34:00am

re: #602 Sergey Romanov

(Of course, there's a limit to that, as examples of Finky and Shamir show.)

607 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:35:22am

re: #605 Gus 802

I did not need to see that.

608 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:35:35am

re: #596 garhighway

Well, of the candidates, only two - Romney and Perry - have any kind of ground game in the northeastern states outside NH. That would be a measure of how serious those candidates are in lasting through the current political theater.

609 jaunte  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:36:10am
610 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:36:42am

re: #601 Killgore Trout

You did, however, say with no basis in fact that a certain woman was a trust-fund Marxist. You were in error.

Her commentary on the cops afterwards was also eminently reasonable-- while you were exulting that she'd been pepper-sprayed.

I still can't believe that it happened. Most of the cops are really not like that. Most of the time they're with us. The cops around me were pissed that it happened. Yesterday, I think they were scared, and under a lot of pressure. Ironically enough, and unfortunately, the cops spraying a bunch of white girls, well, our donations have tripled. We're getting media attention. This provokes momentum. It sucks that it had to get to this point, but people aren't going to leave. Even if it doesn't get huge, it's about endurance.

You've had some good criticism of Occupy but you've had some real boners too.

Image: image025.jpg

It'd make your arguments a lot stronger if you avoided the hyperbole and violence-fetishism.

611 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:37:26am

re: #602 Sergey Romanov

I would say in-group criticism often consists of more "sharp" arguments, that might be considered inappropriate when coming from outside.

Well, the "inside" - "outside" thing is a moveable goal post. It becomes problematic when anyone offering criticism is automatically branded "outsider". When the Tea Party started I was still a Republican leaner but anyone critical of the movement was purged. I'm now a left leaner but I see a lot of fundamental problems with OWS so I'm labeled an outsider.

612 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:38:01am

re: #610 Obdicut

OK, I thought it would be a Joker pic. :)

613 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:38:53am

re: #612 Sergey Romanov

OK, I thought it would be a Joker pic. :)

I just love the drawings of the people laughing. It's almost uncanny valley, they're so creepy.

614 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:39:06am

re: #603 lawhawk

An election is not in itself democracy.

I agree. I just felt that the knee-jerk reaction by the rwnj's that it was an Islamic Victory was a contradiction, after-all they did have an election.

615 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:39:26am

re: #611 Killgore Trout

I don't think political divisions apply here. I mean racial-ethnic-religious stuff. Some of the things Obama said to the black community would be considered racist if a white guy stood instead of him in the same place at the same time.

616 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:41:13am

re: #605 Gus 802

Uh oh.

NJ Republican Pol Having a Rentboy Scandal

Image: medford.jpg

I love the "click to enlarge" option

ewwww!

:)

617 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:41:57am

re: #601 Killgore Trout

It's what people do to defend their group. I never accused every Tea Partier of being a Birch Society disciple but was accused of it constantly. OWS defenders use the same technique, it's just human nature.

Human nature. You know that made me think of a couple of things.

• Calling people who side with OWS apologists.
• Cheering on "hippie punching."
• Calling people that sided with OWS moonbats.
• Guilt by association with Wikileaks.
• Guilt by association with Bradley Manning.

618 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:42:50am

re: #617 Gus 802

Human nature. You know that made me think of a couple of things.

• Calling people who side with OWS apologists.
• Cheering on "hippie punching."
• Calling people that sided with OWS moonbats.
• Guilt by association with Wikileaks.
• Guilt by association with Bradley Manning.

Shut up, anti-semite!

619 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:43:02am

re: #617 Gus 802

Human nature. You know that made me think of a couple of things.

• Calling people who side with OWS apologists.
• Cheering on "hippie punching."
• Calling people that sided with OWS moonbats.
• Guilt by association with Wikileaks.
• Guilt by association with Bradley Manning.

I will admit, I find 'guilt by association with Assange' difficult to overcome.

620 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:45:00am

re: #610 Obdicut

You were in error.

Which I admitted when the facts became more clear.

It'd make your arguments a lot stronger if you avoided the hyperbole and violence-fetishism.

I think your misinterpreting my position. My initial objection to the OWS marches was the level of violence from the protesters. Even in the Tony Bologna macing video it starts with a protester fighting police in the street and resisting arrest. The true spirit of nonviolence and civil obedience calls for passive resistance at most, not punching and wrestling with police. In today's protest movements the idea of civil disobedience has been bastardized to the point where it's barely recognizable.

621 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:45:32am

re: #617 Gus 802

I don't even stand with OWS, really. Not my battle, though I get that the core message is fair and important. I'm sure KT sees me as an apologist too (which I don't mind because whatever) because I don't like some criticisms of OWS. That said, kudos to KT for standing his ground.

622 iossarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:49:14am

re: #620 Killgore Trout

Which I admitted when the facts became more clear.

The true spirit of nonviolence and civil obedience calls for passive resistance at most, not punching and wrestling with police.

Freudian slip?

623 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:51:57am

Anytime a large group of people get together in a "protest" it can be a scary thing. Mob mentality and all.

When they disrupt traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge, it's really not good PR.

As I've seen any other real examples of civil unrest from the OWS crowd, I'm still reserving judgement.

Tea Party scares the shit out of me, so I'm not singling out OWS.

Do I think the OWS has the potential to be another 1968 Chicago riot -- yes.

Do I think the whackos in the Tea Party have the chance to turn "Red Dawn"?
--yes.

But both also have the same chance of spurning lasting change. I'm not sure what that would be. As long as it isn't their seeming common goals of isolationism and a world without a Federal Reserve, I'm willing to sit and watch for now.

Brave New World and all . . .

624 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:52:20am

re: #622 iossarian

Freudian slip?

How many Freudians does it take to change a light bulb? Two, one to change the light bulb, the other to hold the penis ladder.:)

625 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:52:43am

re: #621 Sergey Romanov

I don't even stand with OWS, really. Not my battle, though I get that the core message is fair and important. I'm sure KT sees me as an apologist too (which I don't mind because whatever) because I don't like some criticisms of OWS. That said, kudos to KT for standing his ground.

OWS should have stayed on message. Some of the groups have. But bringing in all of these other issues into something that was initially meant to bring to the forefront the issue of financial inequality we have in this nation has diluted the initial message of OWS. It wasn't supposed to be about war, Israel, cops, etc. It was supposed to about Wall Street and the financial industry. "It's the economy stupid."

626 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:53:30am

re: #624 Cannadian Club Akbar

How many Freudians does it take to change a light bulb? Two, one to change the light bulb, the other to hold the penis ladder.:)

Freud was a pessimist. He'd find a reason to sit in the dark.

627 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:53:58am

re: #625 Gus 802

OWS should have stayed on message. Some of the groups have. But bringing in all of these other issues into something that was initially meant to bring to the forefront the issue of financial inequality we have in this nation has diluted the initial message of OWS. It wasn't supposed to be about war, Israel, cops, etc. It was supposed to about Wall Street and the financial industry. "It's the economy stupid."

Same with the Tea Party, it was suppossed to be about Taxes --no?

628 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:54:27am

re: #624 Cannadian Club Akbar

Scary thing is that some people still accept psychoanalysis (and analytical psychology, and... and...)

629 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:56:44am

re: #628 Sergey Romanov

Scary thing is that some people still accept psychoanalysis (and analytical psychology, and... and...)

That's because Psychiatry now has SCIENCE in a real way. Diagnostic testing, meds, as well as decades of empirical science to draw upon.

But, I guess it's easier to go with someone's non-scientific observations-or perhaps a psyhic, perhaps an astrologer.

630 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:57:26am

re: #627 ggt

Same with the Tea Party, it was suppossed to be about Taxes --no?

Pretty much. It was also supposed to be largely secular. Instead it morphed into yet another Christian right-wing movement with the usual right-wing Republican orthodoxy and litmus tests.

631 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 8:59:27am

Help me out here --

Government makes it's budget based on perceived and actual need --

Not on what they think they can collect.

Unlike my budget at home --I figure what is coming in and then figure what I can pay for.

632 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:01:54am

This is a bit of NYC news that should be of interest to Obdicut. There's a huge contest to build a new education campus on Roosevelt Island - that would spur serious economic development and new r&d opportunities because of the focus on technology and engineering (applied sciences campus).

It's down to really 2 serious offers. One is from Stamford, the other from Cornell. I'm liking the Cornell group's chances, and that's not only because Cornell's group includes Technion U from Israel. Technion's graduates have gone on to great success internationally - half the Israel companies on the NASDAQ are headed by Technion alumni. There's tremendous entrepreneurial spirit there; and teamed up with Silicon Alley, it could lead to expanded economic opportunties throughout NYC and the region.

Roosevelt Island was picked because it had the space necessary for a new campus (Governor's Island was another option but had less transportation infrastructure available to make this happen anytime soon).

633 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:03:14am

re: #629 ggt

Good comparison. I don't see how psychoanalysts and analytical psychologists are any better than astrologers. There never was science behind those, only cherrypicked anecdotal stuff, like Jung's musings on synchronicity which he derived from disjointed bits and pieces.

634 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:03:41am

re: #619 ggt

I will admit, I find 'guilt by association with Assange' difficult to overcome.

There is a significant element of Wikileaks supporters within OWS. That comes along with Anon who is still very active in promoting and organizing the protests. Other far left groups such as ANSWER, Code Pink, World Can't Wait, and the rest of the antiwar groups are also wikileaks supporters.
It'd be an interesting question for somebody to ask when polling OWS protesters. I won't venture a guess at the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised to see significant support for wikileaks.

635 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:03:57am

re: #633 Sergey Romanov

Good comparison. I don't see how psychoanalysts and analytical psychologists are any better than astrologers. There never was science behind those, only cherrypicked anecdotal stuff, like Jung's musings on synchronicity which he derived from disjointed bits and pieces.

Yeah, well...uh...
YOUR MOM!
/

636 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:04:44am

re: #623 ggt

I'm not scared of the Tea Party. Neither am I scared of OWS. If you look at the core concerns of either group you will find plenty of overlap. The individuals of each group are subject to the mechanizations of a force (government and corporations) larger then themselves. If we get carried away with this we wind up, in the end, blaming the victims. And in the end, Tea Party people and OWS people are both victims of many of the same things.

637 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:05:06am

re: #635 Varek Raith

Yeah, well...uh...
YOUR MOM!
/

No, YOUR mom. Oedipal complex, you see...//

638 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:08:45am

re: #632 lawhawk

Would have been a great use for Governor's Island. Build them a tram and an off-ramp from the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel and you'd be good to go.

639 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:08:45am

re: #633 Sergey Romanov

Good comparison. I don't see how psychoanalysts and analytical psychologists are any better than astrologers. There never was science behind those, only cherrypicked anecdotal stuff, like Jung's musings on synchronicity which he derived from disjointed bits and pieces.

From an elitist (IMHO).

I much prefer Jung. He had a more realistic view of human beings.

I wouldn't submit for treatment to either. I prefer psychiatry combined with Behavior Modification Therapy.

640 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:09:13am

re: #634 Killgore Trout

There is a significant element of Wikileaks supporters within OWS. That comes along with Anon who is still very active in promoting and organizing the protests. Other far left groups such as ANSWER, Code Pink, World Can't Wait, and the rest of the antiwar groups are also wikileaks supporters.
It'd be an interesting question for somebody to ask when polling OWS protesters. I won't venture a guess at the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised to see significant support for wikileaks.

It's a question worth asking.

641 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:10:35am

re: #636 Gus 802

I'm not scared of the Tea Party. Neither am I scared of OWS. If you look at the core concerns of either group you will find plenty of overlap. The individuals of each group are subject to the mechanizations of a force (government and corporations) larger then themselves. If we get carried away with this we wind up, in the end, blaming the victims. And in the end, Tea Party people and OWS people are both victims of many of the same things.

Ok, perhaps not FEAR.

We are in a transition period as a whole world. There are real concerns.

642 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:10:41am

re: #639 ggt

From an elitist (IMHO).

?

643 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:10:58am

And here we have an NPR employee holding herself to a higher standard than, say, Clarence Thomas...

[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

644 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:11:07am

re: #642 Sergey Romanov

?

Freud was an elitist. (IMHO)

645 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:11:54am

re: #644 ggt

Ah, thanks, got it.

646 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:13:03am

re: #641 ggt

Ok, perhaps not FEAR.

We are in a transition period as a whole world. There are real concerns.

No, I take that back.

The Tea Party Theocracy movement scares the shit out of me.

647 Killgore Trout  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:13:32am

re: #643 garhighway

And here we have an NPR employee holding herself to a higher standard than, say, Clarence Thomas...

[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Kudos to her for dong the right thing.

648 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:13:49am

re: #641 ggt

Ok, perhaps not FEAR.

We are in a transition period as a whole world. There are real concerns.

From out of the ashes.

Simply it's because the government and the private sector (i.e. the Fortune 500s and the plutocrats) are failing us.

Food, clothing, shelter, family, friends, employment...

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Instead we are sacrificing our citizenry in order to maintain the wealth and power of a few.

649 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:15:49am

re: #648 Gus 802

From out of the ashes.

Simply it's because the government and the private sector (i.e. the Fortune 500s and the plutocrats) are failing us.

Food, clothing, shelter, family, friends, employment...

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Instead we are sacrificing our citizenry in order to maintain the wealth and power of a few.

People are advocating sacrificing individual rights for an ideology.

And using Ayn Rand to justify it.

If it weren't true it'd be an Onion article.

650 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:16:38am

Meanwhile Ukrainian prosecutors revived a ~10 y.o. criminal case against Tymoshenko (that's in addition to the one for which she has already been sentenced to 7 years+confiscation). Seems like Yanukovych wants a total destruction.

651 recusancy  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:17:20am

re: #631 ggt

Help me out here --

Government makes it's budget based on perceived and actual need --

Not on what they think they can collect.

Unlike my budget at home --I figure what is coming in and then figure what I can pay for.

What do you need help with?

652 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:21:19am

More commentary on the GOP race from The Onion:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

Excerpt:

"There's got to be at least one, single individual out there who really, really wants me to be president, right?" he added. "Right?"

Romney, an unsuccessful candidate for the 2008 Republican nomination, said that in recent months his town hall appearances and campaign rallies have served as constant distressing reminders of his inability to spark genuine enthusiasm among voters or form any kind of meaningful bond whatsoever.

"Sure, some people cheer and wave signs, but it all seems so mechanical, like they're just going through the motions," Romney said. "Have you ever seen anyone at a Mitt Romney rally with tears streaming down their face? No, of course not. Has anyone ever spontaneously started a spirited 'Mitt, Mitt, Mitt' chant that I could spend a solid minute basking in before finally beginning my speech? No way. In fact, it's hard to even imagine it. Why is that? What am I doing wrong? I mean, I say inspirational stuff, don't I?"

"I'm not asking for people to faint or go into hysterics or anything, but would it be too much for just one person to respond intensely and personally to who I am and what I stand for?" continued Romney, adding that he would even be thrilled to have a voter shout at him in anger, because then he would at least be able to say he had actually moved someone. "Frankly, I don't even care who it is—an elderly woman, a child, a mentally-ill person who just happens to be wandering through the rally. I am wide-open here."

653 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:21:52am

re: #649 ggt

People are advocating sacrificing individual rights for an ideology.

And using Ayn Rand to justify it.

If it weren't true it'd be an Onion article.

This came to my mind all of the sudden.

Crash Test Dummies: Superman's Song

654 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:22:00am

re: #620 Killgore Trout

Which I admitted when the facts became more clear.

Yeah, but you still made the silly comment in the first place. You didn't have any grounds to make it on.

I think your misinterpreting my position. My initial objection to the OWS marches was the level of violence from the protesters. Even in the Tony Bologna macing video it starts with a protester fighting police in the street and resisting arrest.

But then you applauded the use of violence against an actually non-violent protester, a woman who wasn't fighting, in a use of force that's been judged over the top by the NYPD. Do you not see how it weakens your "I don't like the violence of the protesters" argument when you're openly celebrating violence used against them?

655 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:23:55am

Talking Points Memo
@TPM Talking Points Memo
Photo of the Day: [Link: t.co...]

656 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:24:13am

re: #650 Sergey Romanov

Meanwhile Ukrainian prosecutors revived a ~10 y.o. criminal case against Tymoshenko (that's in addition to the one for which she has already been sentenced to 7 years+confiscation). Seems like Yanukovych wants a total destruction.

She's a political opponent, correct?

657 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:25:30am

re: #656 Cannadian Club Akbar

She's a political opponent, correct?

Yes, one of the leaders of the "Orange revolution" that prevented Yanukovych coming to power in 2004/5.

658 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:26:20am
659 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:27:06am

re: #657 Sergey Romanov

Yes, one of the leaders of the "Orange revolution" that prevented Yanukovych coming to power in 2004/5.

Tymoshenko.
Image: Ukrainian+Prime+Minister+Yulia+Tymoshenko.jpg

660 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:27:37am

re: #659 Cannadian Club Akbar

blogspot

661 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:27:40am

re: #659 Cannadian Club Akbar

DAMN IT!!

662 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:27:51am

The Iraq War
2003-2011

663 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:29:22am
664 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:30:25am

re: #661 Cannadian Club Akbar

DAMN IT!!

Foiled again!/

665 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:31:17am

Government Could Hide Existence of Records under FOIA Rule Proposal

A proposed rule to the Freedom of Information Act would allow federal agencies to tell people requesting certain law-enforcement or national security documents that records don’t exist – even when they do.

Under current FOIA practice, the government may withhold information and issue what’s known as a Glomar denial that says it can neither confirm nor deny the existence of records.

The new proposal – part of a lengthy rule revision by the Department of Justice – would direct government agencies to “respond to the request as if the excluded records did not exist."

Continues.

667 recusancy  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:32:05am

NPR's Michele Norris Stepping Away From Hosting Duties

Michele Norris, an All Things Considered co-host since December 2002, is stepping away from that post until after the 2012 presidential campaign because her husband has taken a senior position with President Obama's re-election effort.

Ahh.. If only every news host did this. Fox would be just an empty anchors chair.

668 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:32:11am

re: #666 Sergey Romanov

"It's the hair!"

Image: timoshenko4.jpg

You're right!!
Image: Yulia_Tymoshenko-black%20in%20pearls.jpg

669 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:33:18am
670 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:34:47am
671 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:37:03am

re: #670 Gus 802

Putin loves the idea.

//

Ya think?/

672 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:37:46am

re: #665 Gus 802

The ACLU's proposal seems eminently reasonable.

But the advocacy groups propose another response: You have requested “…records which, if they exist, would not be subject to the disclosure requirements of FOIA...”

They prefer such language because a last resort is to sue to obtain the records, something people requesting information might not do if they assumed that no records existed.

Open government groups also contend that the proposed rule could undermine judicial proceedings.

673 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:38:23am

re: #670 Gus 802

*sigh*

Nixon, China.

674 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:38:51am

Alrighty. I need to get to the store then mow. BBL.

675 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:40:18am

Government secrets in perpetuity.

676 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:45:55am

Cheer up! It could be worse.

I killed the thread. :)

677 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:46:30am

re: #676 Gus 802

Cheer up! It could be worse.

I killed the thread. :)

MURDERER!

678 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:46:51am

re: #677 thedopefishlives

MURDERER!

Redrum!

679 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:47:04am

re: #676 Gus 802

Cheer up! It could be worse.

I killed the thread. :)

That was a confession. Take him away./

680 garhighway  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:47:36am

re: #675 Gus 802

Government secrets in perpetuity.

Every government has them. Every government needs them. There's no way around it.

681 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:47:36am

re: #679 Sergey Romanov

That was a confession. Take him away./

Little Green Footballs: Special Victims Unit

682 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:48:06am

re: #681 Gus 802

Little Green Footballs: Special Victims Unit

DNA evidence proves that Gus did not kill the thread. Turn him loose.

683 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:48:17am

re: #678 Gus 802

Redrum!

Blue rum is better.

684 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:48:33am

re: #683 Sergey Romanov

Blue rum is better.

Why is the rum always gone?

685 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:49:34am

re: #684 thedopefishlives

Why is the rum always gone?

Because Gus is here.

686 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:50:59am

re: #685 Sergey Romanov

Because Gus is here.

687 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:51:21am

re: #685 Sergey Romanov

Because Gus is here.

It's medical rum. It's for my rum-a-toid arthritis.

688 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:52:03am
689 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:52:18am

re: #687 Gus 802

It's medical rum. It's for my rum-a-toid arthritis.

But it's a gateway drink!

690 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:53:16am

re: #689 thedopefishlives

But it's a gateway drink!

Yep. It leads to tobacco and firearms.

//

691 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:54:31am

re: #690 Gus 802

Yep. It leads to tobacco and firearms.

//

The real downfall of the Golden Age of Piracy: Rum, tobacco, and Big Freakin' Guns.

692 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:54:56am
693 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:55:15am
694 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:55:51am

re: #691 thedopefishlives

The real downfall of the Golden Age of Piracy: Rum, tobacco, and Big Freakin' Guns.

Bring back the Volstead Act I tells ya'.

Argh.

697 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:57:14am

re: #692 Varek Raith

Fox & Friends Stoke Fears Of An "All-Out Assault On Halloween"

Delicious irony is delicious.

Derp.

698 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:58:32am

re: #695 Sergey Romanov

Only 15 bottles? /slacker!

699 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 9:59:02am

re: #698 lawhawk

Big bottles.

700 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:00:37am

re: #697 Gus 802

Derp.

You'd think Fox would be cheering that...
I'm confuzzled.

701 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:01:01am

re: #692 Varek Raith

Fox & Friends Stoke Fears Of An "All-Out Assault On Halloween"

Delicious irony is delicious.

It gets really hard to keep track of F&F contradicting themselves after a while. Wasn't it the Right's position that Halloween was a satanic holiday?

702 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:01:05am

Hey all! Please, I have a request. Please see Publicity Stunted/Interesting Times new page:

Senator Whitehouse Must-See Climate Speech: We Ignore the Laws of Nature...at Our Very Grave Peril

The problem is that some of the special interests — the polluters — have insinuated themselves into that wave, sort of like parasites that creep into the body of a host animal, and from there they are working terrible mischief. They are propagating two big lies. One is that environmental regulations are a burden to the economy and we need to lift those burdens to spur our economic recovery. The second is the jury is still out on climate changes caused by carbon pollution, so we don't need to worry about it or even take precautions. Both are, frankly, outright false.

This is a nearly perfect speech. There is finally someone in DC saying what needs to be said loudly and pointing to the real problems. Please read this page and please recommend it to CJ so it gets on the front page.

703 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:01:13am

re: #692 Varek Raith

Fox & Friends Stoke Fears Of An "All-Out Assault On Halloween"

Delicious irony is delicious.

So basically they only found one, count 'em, one school that effectively banned costumes. In Portland. If even that is true.

Derp.

704 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:01:25am

re: #700 Varek Raith

You'd think Fox would be cheering that...
I'm confuzzled.

It's Fox. They confuzzle any sane, thinking person. Hence the "Derp".

705 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:03:20am

re: #703 Gus 802

So basically they only found one, count 'em, one school that effectively banned costumes. In Portland. If even that is true.

Derp.

Yet that annoying woman makes the claim that it's happening all over the country, knowing full well that their viewers will just accept it as fact.

706 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:03:24am

re: #693 wlewisiii

Yeah, I saw that on Facebook.

You could turn that around.

No reports of rape at TP events-------Reports of rape at OWS events.
No reports of drugs at TP events------Reports of drugs at OWS events.

Pretty easy.

707 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:03:29am

So, F&F supports... SATAN'S NIGHT!11!11ty!

708 Kragar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:03:32am

re: #692 Varek Raith

Fox & Friends Stoke Fears Of An "All-Out Assault On Halloween"

Delicious irony is delicious.

They seem to forget to mention that "HALLOWEEN IS THE DEVIL" according to a key portion of their own audience.

709 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:05:32am

re: #702 LudwigVanQuixote

Please read this page and please recommend it to CJ so it gets on the front page.

Agreed & done.

710 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:05:33am

re: #705 makeitstop

Yet that annoying woman makes the claim that it's happening all over the country, knowing full well that their viewers will just accept it as fact.

Clearly this is Obama's fault! Yeah, they just found this one school, Buckman Elementary. And from what I'm reading now this is the second year they've dons.

711 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:06:24am

re: #702 LudwigVanQuixote

That is excellent.

My only problem continues to be, "It's not just we." We need to learn to tie international trade to a clean up. I just don't know how.

712 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:06:51am

re: #706 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah, I saw that on Facebook.

You could turn that around.

No reports of rape at TP events---Reports of rape at OWS events.
No reports of drugs at TP events---Reports of drugs at OWS events.

Pretty easy.

Whatever happened to that alleged rape story, anyway? It seems to have gone away, except for the rightie blogs asking why nobody is reporting it - even though there seem to be quite a few news outlets that reported it.

713 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:08:32am

re: #712 makeitstop

Notice I said, "reports of rape"?

714 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:09:55am

Evangelist behind efforts to ban schools' Halloween celebrations
October 31, 2003
By AMY GATLEY

New Harvest Ministries' Preaching Christ Church evangelist Mark Poff holds Halloween masks at his Main Street church in Kingsport. Poff is sponsoring a drive to get school systems to not allow students to celebrate Halloween. David Grace photo.

KINGSPORT - Halloween is the one time of the year when you can find vampires, football players and fairy princesses strolling through school hallways.

But school officials say that over the years they have heard complaints from people who don't approve of Halloween celebrations in schools, and one local evangelist is leading a charge to ban the observance of Halloween in school classrooms. Mark Poff of New Harvest Ministries' Preaching Christ Church in Kingsport said he has started a petition to ban Halloween in schools. Poff hopes to garner 3 million signatures in the nationwide campaign...

Burp.

715 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:10:03am

re: #711 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is excellent.

My only problem continues to be, "It's not just we." We need to learn to tie international trade to a clean up. I just don't know how.

Respectfully, international trade is not so much of the problem at all any more, since every other industrial nation already takes climate vastly more seriously than the US does - even China, and that is saying something. We are the ones who should be leading, and because of the GOP, we are the slow kids in the international class who eat glue and stick pencils up our noses.

716 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:10:10am

re: #714 Gus 802

Evangelist behind efforts to ban schools' Halloween celebrations
October 31, 2003
By AMY GATLEY

Burp.

Color me surprised.

717 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:11:19am

re: #713 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Notice I said, "reports of rape"?

Sure, I did.

I wasn't making any accusations, just asking what happened to the story.

718 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:12:13am

re: #715 LudwigVanQuixote

Respectfully, international trade is not so much of the problem at all any more, since every other industrial nation already takes climate vastly more seriously than the US does - even China, and that is saying something. We are the ones who should be leading, and because of the GOP, we are the slow kids in the international class who eat glue and stick pencils up our noses.

China takes climate change more seriously than we do? I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit on that one. Can you demonstrate to me how they've shown any initiative whatsoever on the matter?

719 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:12:33am

re: #714 Gus 802

Burp.

Dat stout agin'?

720 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:13:23am

re: #719 Sergey Romanov

Dat stout agin'?

It's the sea swells and the rum.

Argh.

721 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:14:06am

re: #715 LudwigVanQuixote

Really? I under the impression that Russia, China, India have areas where the air, rivers, and gound are basically toxic.

My impression is incorrect?

I'd love to read something about it. Got any suggestions?

722 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:14:11am

re: #701 makeitstop

It gets really hard to keep track of F&F contradicting themselves after a while. Wasn't it the Right's position that Halloween was a satanic holiday?

There's several layers. They have the Evangelical groups who either reject the holiday, or go so far as to see it as a Satanic plot. They want to court these folks, and also use them as an example of Christians whose special 'needs' are not being met by secular society.

OTOH, they realize that most of their audience not only celebrates the holiday, but associates it with all-American things--children, candy, neighbors, hijinks--and will be readily able to froth at the mouth if told that this precious tradition is not being preserved by those gosh-darn politically correct schools.

723 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:14:30am

re: #720 Gus 802

Avast, me hearties.

724 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:14:57am

Halloween Hits Streak Of Bad Luck in School
Wash. City Joins Others to Ban Costumes, Parties

By Blaine Harden
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 31, 2004; Page A03

PUYALLUP, Wash. -- The school superintendent's order was final. Halloween was "prohibited" during school hours. Black cats, pointy hats and all images of witches could no longer be displayed in any of the 31 schools in this suburban city south of Seattle...

...Complaints about Halloween from Pentecostal parents in Texas have forced a significant number of that state's school districts to cancel in-school parties, said Richard W. Stadelmann, a professor of religious studies at Texas A&M University.

There is a geographical pattern to the grumbling, according to Stadelmann and others. Christian complaints come mostly from the South and Midwest, whereas Wiccan complaints are more likely to come from California and the Pacific Northwest.

Much of this complaining from pagans and Christians is unwarranted by the facts, according to Judith Schaeffer, deputy legal director of People for the American Way Foundation, a liberal organization that often goes to court to defend separation of church and state...

725 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:20:06am

Halloween has no place in the life of a Christian - RIGHTLYCONCERNED.COM

...The festival of death has pretty much survived all the efforts of the church to stamp it out. A counterfeit for this time of the year is giving in to the time of halloween. Satan has deluded the saints into believing they can somehow circumvent the evil by playing along in some small ways.

Today’s present day celebration is bigger than Christmas in stores and in the minds of most children. Isn’t the theme of this day one of evil, death, fear and threats? We see the stores with supposed fun stuff like witches, ghosts, skeletons and monsters and we just take it all in stride as just plain fun. Since when have these things ever really been fun? Many will say, “We don’t take it seriously.” But satan does and so does God. What about churches who build house of horror in the fellowship halls and think that this does not lead to confusion on the parts of our children?

So wake up church, and let us never, ever embrace anything, other than the Church of God and the precepts of faith set up by our Savior Jesus Christ.

726 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:20:35am

re: #714 Gus 802

Reminds me of when I was in the fourth grade, there was little school dance, and I didn't have the (I think it was ten cents) to go in.

My teacher Mrs. Karnes (I still think of her fondly) thought that I wasn't going because my parents were against dancing and wouldn't give me the dime to go. She gave me a dime and I went.

I had just forgotten to ask for the dime from my folks. They couldn't have cared less.

It was only much later that I realized, that if I didn't go to the dance? She didn't get a break to go smoke in the teacher's lounge, and would be stuck baby-sitting me.

727 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:22:11am

re: #717 makeitstop

Sure, I did.

I wasn't making any accusations, just asking what happened to the story.

I don't know the incident in question, but probably the cops have it on file, and nothing much is left to report unless they make an arrest.

728 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:22:38am

re: #717 makeitstop

I don't know. I didn't think you were getting feisty. Was a good question.

729 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:23:44am

re: #726 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Haven't thought of that in years. The brain is funny.

730 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:25:19am

re: #726 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Reminds me of when I was in the fourth grade, there was little school dance, and I didn't have the (I think it was ten cents) to go in.

My teacher Mrs. Karnes (I still think of her fondly) thought that I wasn't going because my parents were against dancing and wouldn't give me the dime to go. She gave me a dime and I went.

I had just forgotten to ask for the dime from my folks. They couldn't have cared less.

It was only much later that I realized, that if I didn't go? She didn't get a break to go smoke in the teacher's lounge.

Anything for a smoke aye?

Well, looks to me like Halloween bans seems to be coming from any side of the political aisle. Seem like a rather rare occurrence. Imagine of course how it was viewed "back in the old days." Anyway. There is no "war on Halloween."

731 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:26:10am

re: #718 thedopefishlives

China takes climate change more seriously than we do? I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit on that one. Can you demonstrate to me how they've shown any initiative whatsoever on the matter?

ONE CHILD POLICY!

732 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:26:56am
733 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:27:08am

re: #730 Gus 802

Anything for a smoke aye?

Well, looks to me like Halloween bans seems to be coming from any side of the political aisle. Seem like a rather rare occurrence. Imagine of course how it was viewed "back in the old days." Anyway. There is no "war on Halloween."

Detroit banned "Devil's Night." This was years ago, after there was nothing left to burn down.

734 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:28:23am

re: #718 thedopefishlives

China takes climate change more seriously than we do? I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit on that one. Can you demonstrate to me how they've shown any initiative whatsoever on the matter?

OK...

First off, they acknowledge that their droughts have been caused by climate change.

Drought 'poses threat' to grain security

"Catastrophic drought occurred once every five years in the 1950s and once every two years in the 1990s. But in the past 10 years it's been almost every year," Li Maosong, director of the Agricultural Information Office at the Chinese Academy of Agricultural Sciences (CAAS), told China Daily.

Climate Change ‘Takes Toll’ on Grain Harvest
China Daily carries a warning of serious and sustained decline in China’s grain production:

Tang Huajun, deputy dean of the Chinese Academy of Agricultural Sciences (CAAS), said a 5 to 10 percent crop loss is foreseeable by 2030 if climate change continues.

'The impact of climate change, coupled with arable land loss and water shortages, will cause a bigger grain production fluctuation and pose a threat to reaching output targets,' Tang told China Daily.

According to statistics from the Chinese Academy of Agricultural Sciences (CAAS), the average annual crop losses due to drought in China were 75.7 billion yuan ($11.1 billion) from 1988 to 2004, while annual losses due to flood were 51.1 billion yuan.

'Drought has become the greatest disaster facing China's agriculture,' said Lin Erda, a professor with CAAS.

Compare that to Perry of Texas where there have been similar and worse sustained drought predictions who won't even admit there is a problem.

Second, they are currently leading the world in expansion of wind farms -even after slowing down that growth.

Wind Energy to Witness Robust Growth in China Despite Construction Boom in Nuclear Power Plants: Lucintel’s Analysis of the Chinese Wind Market

The rapid pace of wind energy holds immense opportunities for various stakeholders in China. China outpaced the US and emerged as the biggest market for wind power capacity in 2010. China has approximately 44.7 GW of installed wind power capacity and intends to reach 230 GW by 2020.

[Link: www.windpowermonthly.com...]

China's wind turbine installed capacity has experienced a rapid growth during 2007-2010, with newly added capacity of 3.31GW, 6.15GW, 13.8GW and 18.92GW each year, respectively.

However, a year-on-year increase of 38% in 2010 signaled a slowdown compared to the 100%+ increase in the previous three years.

In August, China earmarked a quota of 28.83GW installed capacity across the country, as the first batch for the 12th Five Year Plan period 2011-2015.

China is expected to have 90GW wind installed capacity by 2015, compared with 44.73GW in 2010.

Third, China is leading development of many green technologies.

next post...

735 Kragar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:29:00am

re: #733 Alouette

Detroit banned "Devil's Night." This was years ago, after there was nothing left to burn down.

But we'll always have JUDGEMENT NIGHT!!!

736 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:31:56am

OK, I just finished reading the 16 page summary.

First, there is no date on the publication and there is no pagination.

I hate that!

A lot of new acronyms were created -- $10B allocated to create a CFPB (Consumer Financial Protection BureaU. $1B allocated to Emergency Mortgage Relief, & $1B for Neighborhood Financial Relief.

The FDIC insured amount was raised to $250K RETROACTIVE to 1/1/2008.

Lots of stuff that sounds good, but I'm unclear as to the chain of command and the funding allocations.

Strange that there was a bit about the "illicit mineral trade" in the Congo--requiring both the SEC and The Secretary of State to take action.

MY main reason for studying this is that I keep hearing from the Right that Dodd-Frank is messing up the economy by limiting banks ability to lend.

It does require banks loan money only to people/entities that can reasonably be expected to repay the loan. It also requires banks/lenders to have "skin in the game" under a modified Volcker rule.


I have more research to do.

737 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:32:19am

off to make fresh coffee!

738 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:33:00am

re: #734 LudwigVanQuixote

I am somewhat familiar with those things. I am just curious if AGW is the reason why they're doing it.

They've a gigantic population and have to figure out inexpensive/renewable ways to power them.

The high speed thing; for example.

A greener way to move folks?
or
Holy shit! We have so many folks to move!

I'm not arguing, but you're making it sound like the new President of China is Gore/Gandhi.

739 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:34:20am

734 continued...

Third, China is leading development of many green technologies.

New energy industries to fuel China's green growth
(Xinhua)

BEIJING - With China's ambitious plans to cut carbon emissions for a greener economy during the 12th five-year plan period from 2011 to 2015, new energy industries are becoming even more significant than in the past. These industries will be responsible for serving the country's growing appetite for energy to feed its rapid development.

According to a report by the International Energy Agency (IEA), China overtook America as the world's largest energy consumer in 2010.

Demand by China, which has outpaced Japan to become the world's second largest economy, will keep climbing rapidly in years to come, the report said.

But with the world oil supply on a downslide and prices heading skyward due to unrest in the Middle East, China will increasingly feel pressure to meet its energy demands.

Now I can go and get all kinds of stats and studies for this, that measure a little more technically and dryly the growth of China's green energy sector. The Chinese are flattening us in any race to develop and deploy these technologies.

I chose official Chinese media/ state propaganda though because that shows that the Chinese government itself takes this seriously. The Chinese gov't is telling its people themselves that this is an issue they are addressing and they are boasting about it. Now China is very far from perfect on green issues and a host of other things. This is not some hagiography pointed at their current regime. But to repeat, they admit the problem of climate and are spending billions to directly address it and to out compete us in new sectors based on it.

Compare that to the US.

740 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:34:33am

Herman Cain has a thing for the number 45

Isn't numerology considered Satanic among some of Cain's followers?

741 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:35:29am

re: #739 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks.

742 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:36:04am

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Clearer agenda, and an understanding of private property.

Their agenda is largely insane, and their understanding of property is usually limited to some anti-communist wacko form of "private property" agitprop (which is just an ideological mirror image to the communist wacko form of "state property" agitprop).

743 freetoken  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:36:42am

re: #740 makeitstop

Herman Cain has a thing for the number 45

Isn't numerology considered Satanic among some of Cain's followers?

Numerology often plays a role in religion and especially fundamentalist religion.

Only, it's the other groups' numerology which is wrong, according to the orthodoxy.

744 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:37:19am

re: #738 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am somewhat familiar with those things. I am just curious if AGW is the reason why they're doing it.

They've a gigantic population and have to figure out inexpensive/renewable ways to power them.

The high speed thing; for example.

A greener way to move folks
or
Holy shit! We have so many folks to move!

I'm not arguing, but you're making it sound like the new President of China is Gore/Gandhi.

We have our own issues with needing to sustain our population. As to Gore Gandhi... far from it. I ran out of space for my last post, so please see my 739.

I repeat

I chose official Chinese media/ state propaganda though because that shows that the Chinese government itself takes this seriously. The Chinese gov't is telling its people themselves that this is an issue they are addressing and they are boasting about it. Now China is very far from perfect on green issues and a host of other things. This is not some hagiography pointed at their current regime. But to repeat, they admit the problem of climate and are spending billions to directly address it and to out compete us in new sectors based on it.

Compare that to the US.

745 Gus  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:37:51am

Ugh. I was just reminded of the Obama Halloween stupidity about some kid that showed up at the White Allegedly wearing an Obama-joker costume. Turned out to be just a skeleton or Grim Reaper costume.

Expect more of the same this year.

746 freetoken  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:40:56am

re: #744 LudwigVanQuixote

"China" is a category label used among the modern nation state system to identify a collection of some odd (and some are odd) 1.3 billion people. Besides multiple ethnicities there are whole nations (Tibet, inner Mongolia, the tribes in the western steppes, etc.) subsumed under "China".

The oligarchy in Beijing have been very aware of climate change and the pushing of renewable energy. However, simultaneously they have been very "pro-growth", in order to feed and house all the various groups in order to keep the ethnic/tribal competition down.

747 Kragar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:41:23am

Herman Cain Has No Real Campaign, Episodes II-IV

Slate’s John Dickerson was the latest to go to Iowa and find no real sign of a Cain campaign: “If Cain does well in Iowa, it could upend the entire premise of the caucus process: In order to win in Iowa, candidates must spend time in the state wooing the famously coddled voters with personal appearances and vast organizations.”

• In Florida, it’s the same story. The Miami Herald: “Look no further than Florida, where die-hard Cain fans can’t find campaign staffers to contact, where prominent Republicans can’t get calls to the campaign returned and where some people describe themselves as the campaign’s Florida leaders while others say the same people are well-meaning but overzealous volunteers.”

• No candidate other than Mitt Romney — who’s spent 6 years trying to win it — is expected to do very well in New Hampshire. But Time found Cain’s a popular ghost there, too: “‘There is no sense of a tangible organization that you can point to,’ says Rich Killion, an uncommitted GOP strategist in New Hampshire, who’s unsure of the location of Cain’s Granite State base of operations, or even if there is one. ‘If you said, ‘Rich, tell me who is running the effort here?’ I could not even give you that person.’”

Even the new guy Cain hired to run Iowa, which is probably a must-win for him, is telling reporters there’s a long way to go before Cain’s got a ground operation in the complicated caucus state.

748 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:41:33am

re: #744 LudwigVanQuixote

We have our own issues with needing to sustain our population.

I just think the Chinese are in a much more desperate state than we are when it comes to transportation, energy, etc...

It could also be me being Xenophobic.

749 blueraven  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:42:47am

You know, it occurred to me how all the republican candidates and many in congress...McCain, Graham are really going after the president on getting out of Iraq. They claim he didnt negotiable the deal very well in regards to keeping troops there past the SOF agreement date.

So basically al Maliki could not garner support among his legislature for agreement for US troops to stay. How is this any different from the GOP's refusal to compromise with our President on anything? Either they are a sovereign country or they are not.

750 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:43:37am

So current girlfriend of Big Steve's is Jewish. We are out to dinner Sat night and our waiter was a gregarious black gentleman, in his 20's. He swings by the table and is laughing with other waiters and asks me if I know what "going Dutch" is. I do and I explain. I also tell him that in Europe it is used as an insult to Dutch people as to their rumored tightness with money. He says that the younger waiters had never heard of the term. Later he comes by again and says, 'that he and the other waiters have decided that since we don't have many Dutch people in the US, they decided to call it "going Jewish". I mildly replied, pointing to my date, saying "she is Jewish." He laughed nervously, told us we should make a black joke at him and went away. Later when he brings our meal, he notes that she has ordered shrimp, and says, "well you really must not be Jewish." To end this all, I attempted to give him no tip, but the girlfriend laughed it all off and told me I must leave him a tip. A very weird incident indeed, and I still believe I should have stiffed him.

751 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:45:18am

The Administration is touting a new program to deal with the ongoing real estate mess, but in reality, it's a repackaging and tweaking of an older set of programs that didn't get the job done.

I've written about the HARP program in the past, and we actually refinanced under the program. Pretty straight forward if you meet the qualifications. The program was meant to help 5 million homeowners, but to date it's helped about 800,000 homeowners. The Administration hopes that tweaking the loan-to-value limits will enable more homeowners to take advantage of refinancing into lower rates or more stable mortgage products that would allow the homeowner to spend more on other things.

While I continue spending money on doing all kinds of projects around the house, the refinancing has meant that I can now pay off the loan faster (lower piti but paying the same as previously). It gave me a cushion to work with in case I need to curtail spending elsewhere or need emergency funds.

752 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:45:18am

re: #750 Big Steve

How incredibly rude. Your girlfriend is very magnanimous, although I've no doubt that the Mrs. Fish (who is part Jewish) would've laughed it off as well.

753 Kragar  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:45:41am

re: #750 Big Steve

So current girlfriend of Big Steve's is Jewish. We are out to dinner Sat night and our waiter was a gregarious black gentleman, in his 20's. He swings by the table and is laughing with other waiters and asks me if I know what "going Dutch" is. I do and I explain. I also tell him that in Europe it is used as an insult to Dutch people as to their rumored tightness with money. He says that the younger waiters had never heard of the term. Later he comes by again and says, 'that he and the other waiters have decided that since we don't have many Dutch people in the US, they decided to call it "going Jewish". I mildly replied, pointing to my date, saying "she is Jewish." He laughed nervously, told us we should make a black joke at him and went away. Later when he brings our meal, he notes that she has ordered shrimp, and says, "well you really must not be Jewish." To end this all, I attempted to give him no tip, but the girlfriend laughed it all off and told me I must leave him a tip. A very weird incident indeed, and I still believe I should have stiffed him.

I'd have talked to the manager.

754 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:46:07am

re: #746 freetoken

"China" is a category label used among the modern nation state system to identify a collection of some odd (and some are odd) 1.3 billion people. Besides multiple ethnicities there are whole nations (Tibet, inner Mongolia, the tribes in the western steppes, etc.) subsumed under "China".

The oligarchy in Beijing have been very aware of climate change and the pushing of renewable energy. However, simultaneously they have been very "pro-growth", in order to feed and house all the various groups in order to keep the ethnic/tribal competition down.

This is absolutely true.

I am not trying to hold up China as some shining example of how to move forward on green energy and I am certainly not trying to say that the current oligarchy are nice guys in any way.

My comments were in response to the trope that the US needs to get the rest of the international community on board that climate is an issue that needs to be addressed.

The point here, and the reality is, that we are at the bottom of the class even after China.

I further do not credit the Chinese government with anything at all like altruism. They can do math as well as any other educated group (as opposed to US Republicans). They know that sooner or later there will have to be a boom in green technology and they are positioning themselves to profit from it, and to see to it that the US has little of that market share.

755 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:46:08am

re: #750 Big Steve

I'd have left a penny.

756 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:46:20am

I am having more typos than normal. My keyboard is about a half a second behind me as I type and it is totally WEIRDING ME OUT!

Thank goodness for the pencil (when I catch it.)

757 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:46:31am

re: #748 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just think the Chinese are in a much more desperate state than we are when it comes to transportation, energy, etc...

It could also be me being Xenophobic.

See my 754.

758 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:48:31am

re: #756 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am having more typos than normal. My keyboard is about a half a second behind me as I type and it is totally WEIRDING ME OUT!

Thank goodness for the pencil (when I catch it.)

Kick It (tm). You'd be amazed at the sort of problems physical violence, or the threat thereof, can solve.

759 freetoken  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:49:34am

re: #754 LudwigVanQuixote

They can do math as well as any other educated group (as opposed to US Republicans).

Here's a newswire story from today that you might find of interest:
Crop scientists now fret about heat not just water

[...]

Roy Steiner, deputy director for agricultural development for the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, said the foundation is focused on current agricultural effects of climate change.

"It's amazing that there are still people who think that it's not changing. Everywhere we go we're seeing greater variability, the rains are changing and the timing of the rains is creating a lot more vulnerability," Steiner said.

"Agriculture is one of those things that needs long-term planning, and we are very short-cycled thinking," he said. "There are going to be some real shocks to the system. Climate is the biggest challenge. Demand is not going away."

760 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:49:55am

re: #750 Big Steve

So current girlfriend of Big Steve's is Jewish. We are out to dinner Sat night and our waiter was a gregarious black gentleman, in his 20's. He swings by the table and is laughing with other waiters and asks me if I know what "going Dutch" is. I do and I explain. I also tell him that in Europe it is used as an insult to Dutch people as to their rumored tightness with money. He says that the younger waiters had never heard of the term. Later he comes by again and says, 'that he and the other waiters have decided that since we don't have many Dutch people in the US, they decided to call it "going Jewish". I mildly replied, pointing to my date, saying "she is Jewish." He laughed nervously, told us we should make a black joke at him and went away. Later when he brings our meal, he notes that she has ordered shrimp, and says, "well you really must not be Jewish." To end this all, I attempted to give him no tip, but the girlfriend laughed it all off and told me I must leave him a tip. A very weird incident indeed, and I still believe I should have stiffed him.

Waiter attempts witty banter with customers, fails epically.

761 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:50:08am

re: #651 recusancy

What do you need help with?

That what I said is actually how it is done.

762 Lidane  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:50:25am

Heh:

Herman Cain Has No Real Campaign, Episodes II-IV

We already told you about Herman Cain’s total lack of a campaign in South Carolina, according to plugged-in Republican operatives there.

With each passing day, more stories are published proving that South Carolina is not an outlier in the Cain campaign operation. Try as they might, reporters just can’t seem to find any kind of legitimate Cain campaign operation anywhere.

763 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:51:05am

re: #754 LudwigVanQuixote

Right now, there's a anti-trust complaint registered that China is dumping solar panels over here to kill competition.

Hell, I'd think they could use them over there.

764 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:52:05am

re: #747 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
As I noted above, only Romney and Perry seem to have a ground game beyond the initial NH/IA battleground states. Cain's campaign is largely vaporware, and that's being charitable. The others are in even worse shape. They have limited bankroll to work with and are hoping for a strong showing in the initial states to carry them along sputtering.

765 Lidane  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:52:15am

Also, Mitt Romney is really taking this pandering thing to a whole new level:

Romney Tries To Ban Romneycare In Ohio

767 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:03:37am

re: #750 Big Steve

So current girlfriend of Big Steve's is Jewish. We are out to dinner Sat night and our waiter was a gregarious black gentleman, in his 20's. He swings by the table and is laughing with other waiters and asks me if I know what "going Dutch" is. I do and I explain. I also tell him that in Europe it is used as an insult to Dutch people as to their rumored tightness with money. He says that the younger waiters had never heard of the term. Later he comes by again and says, 'that he and the other waiters have decided that since we don't have many Dutch people in the US, they decided to call it "going Jewish". I mildly replied, pointing to my date, saying "she is Jewish." He laughed nervously, told us we should make a black joke at him and went away. Later when he brings our meal, he notes that she has ordered shrimp, and says, "well you really must not be Jewish." To end this all, I attempted to give him no tip, but the girlfriend laughed it all off and told me I must leave him a tip. A very weird incident indeed, and I still believe I should have stiffed him.

Strange, but that kind of conversation sounds like an episode of Archie Bunker. I would have laughed. I'd rather we be able to find humor and camaraderie in our differences. It shows we are really just people that like to to have together --not at each other's expense.

Easier to say than to, I'll admit.

768 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:05:56am

re: #756 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I am having more typos than normal. My keyboard is about a half a second behind me as I type and it is totally WEIRDING ME OUT!

Thank goodness for the pencil (when I catch it.)

OMG, I hate that!

769 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:07:14am

re: #766 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain Spent $1 Million to Run Racist 'Snuff My Own Seed' Ads

I heard one of those ads --I thought they were racist.

770 kirkspencer  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:07:28am

re: #761 ggt

That what I said is actually how it is done.

Yes and no, but you're also falling into the kitchen table error -- a government is not a home. It's closer to think of it as a corporation though there are major flaws there as well.

Yes, needs are determined. No, this is not done without consideration of revenues. However, money can be and is borrowed to cover these needs because paying the needs now will result in greater gains long-term.

A major flaw in that assumption comes when people decide they don't want to pay for what they're getting, and are in position to make that happen.

771 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:08:28am

re: #759 freetoken

Here's a newswire story from today that you might find of interest:
Crop scientists now fret about heat not just water

Great post!

772 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:08:36am

re: #770 kirkspencer

Yes and no, but you're also falling into the kitchen table error -- a government is not a home. It's closer to think of it as a corporation though there are major flaws there as well.

Yes, needs are determined. No, this is not done without consideration of revenues. However, money can be and is borrowed to cover these needs because paying the needs now will result in greater gains long-term.

A major flaw in that assumption comes when people decide they don't want to pay for what they're getting, and are in position to make that happen.

I wasn't trying to make a judgement on how government figures budgets, just trying to understand so I can get out of my own way of thinking.

773 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:09:35am

re: #763 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Right now, there's a anti-trust complaint registered that China is dumping solar panels over here to kill competition.

Hell, I'd think they could use them over there.

So at what point did I say that the Chinese were not opportunist and that their industry is not riddled with corruption? The tragic thing is that even given all that, they are beating us in this sector.

774 kirkspencer  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:26:18am

re: #772 ggt

I wasn't trying to make a judgement on how government figures budgets, just trying to understand so I can get out of my own way of thinking.

Ah.

OK, then again yes and no.

Start by remembering that all the agencies and departments and everything else are, at root, authorized and required by law. It isn't really a joke to say it takes an act of Congress to eliminate an office. Regulations are the details of how to implement Congressional action. Then policies and procedures are the daily details - how many people, what paperwork, where - to implement the regulations. With that in the back of your mind you can begin the process.

The baseline constraint is "your current budget modified by inflation." Every office, and in some cases every manager in an office, submits their request for changes to the current budget up the chain. Each level above tweaks those for the next level. These days it's pretty common for each level to request more as quite frankly every office is understaffed and so unable to do all the things they're congressionally required to do. They do this even though they're aware that they won't get the increase. What each level above does is prioritize the increases -- and examines, again, where any cuts that come down will hurt the least.

This, then, is what gets to the OMB. Baseline plus requested increases, and (because it is required) an effect of cuts report that states what requirement of law won't happen if cuts occur.

The second input is the political wishlist. While it comes from the office of the President it isn't just the president's programs that he really wants. It's also programs the president thinks he's going to need as quid pro quot. It's his - and key members of his staff's - perception of what cuts are more palatable both politically and practically.

Third input is treasury's. That's an estimate of how much money's going to come in revenues and available through notes before reaching the cap. The president gets to say "not more than this" in notes, and it is so.

The OMB (with varying inputs from other offices, both requested and forced upon them) then attempts to put this together in a package that comes as close as possible to satisfying all parties while spending as little as possible.

So yes, it starts by determining needs. But no, it doesn't ignore income. And because of the way rolling debts are supposed to work borrowing shouldn't be that big a deal. It's just, when times are good an awful lot of politicians want to cut revenues instead of paying off debts incurred when times were bad.

Sorry. Couldn't resist that last, even though I screamed for days when Bush proposed exactly that as soon as he was in office.

775 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Oct 24, 2011 11:30:09am

re: #5 EmmmieG

Why would you go to a place self-named "Cesspool"?

What's up next? The Political Dungheap?

The Political Manure Truck?

The Political Pigsty?

The Political Kitchen Midden?

The fact that it is named that tells you what it is in right away. Cesspools contain feces.

White supremacy is edgy and scatological.


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