Hate-Monger Fjordman Back to Writing After Breivik Furor Declines

The eternal darkness of the bigot mind (or, Robert Spencer as the Walrus)
Wingnuts • Views: 44,875

“Fjordman” (real name: Peder Are Nøstvold Jensen), the inspiration for Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik and a tribal supremacist hatemonger exposed here at LGF in 2006 and 2007, is back to penning anti-Muslim Jeremiads regarding all things non-white and “non-traditional” in Europe.

The thing about evil is that evil people rarely look in the mirror, and never consider themselves evil. Most evil people think they are doing the right thing, and the twisted rationalizations they use to reach that conclusion are ugly works indeed.

That’s why Fjordman’s diatribes extend so long. There’s no logical path to get from his point A to his point Z without a ton of long winded obscurantism to disguise the paranoid phantasms that drive his sick mind to conclusions and delusions at odds with reality.

Three months after Anders Behring Breivik unleashed a horror upon Norway in the name of anti-Muslim rage, killing 77 people in an attack intended to draw attention to the threat of Islam, the blogger-muse he regarded as Europe’s “most talented right wing essay[ist]” has re-emerged from a self-imposed hiatus.

On Monday, the American website Gates of Vienna, under the boastful headline, “Fjordman Lives On,” touted a Norwegian newspaper’s publication of the blogger’s latest work, which attacks the media in Europe for its alleged complicity in allowing Islam to spread unchecked. In a brief introduction, Fjordman wrote that Breivik’s terrorism will not dissuade him from attacking Islam.

“After the terrorist attacks of July 22nd I was exhausted,” he wrote. “I seriously contemplated giving up my career as a writer. However, after the situation has calmed down a bit and I could think things through, I have decided to continue with undiminished force. Right from the beginning I have been saying that terrorists, whether they come in the shape of Islamic Jihadists or Anders Behring Breivik, should not be allowed to decide what a free society can or cannot discuss, and I meant that.”

Inspired in part by Fjordman, Breivik predicted the onset of a war that would kill or injure more than a million people as he and his small group of warriors seized “political and military control of Western European countries and implement[ed] a cultural conservative political agenda.” In preparation for this conflict, the manuscript laid out plans for the formation of a Christian army, known as the Knights Templar, to wage “guerrilla warfare against the Multiculturalist Alliance through a constant campaign of shock attacks.”

Fjordman wasn’t the only one to influence Breivik. Also cited in Breivik’s 1,500-page manifesto were Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer, co-founders of the group Stop Islamization of America. In the aftermath of the massacre, Spencer, who Breivik quoted extensively, denied any responsibility for the murders. “If I was indeed an inspiration for his work, I feel the way the Beatles must have felt when they learned that Charles Manson had committed murder after being inspired by messages he thought he heard in their song lyrics.”

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115 comments
1 dragonfire1981  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 6:41:12am

The difference between his writings and Beatles lyrics is that his words are far more direct and explicit. He makes it pretty darned clear what he wants.

2 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 8:17:16am
“After the terrorist attacks of July 22nd I was exhausted,”

Fjordy can't even read his own stuff to see how ridiculous and evil it sounds. Yours is an excellent description of his writing:

That’s why when Fjordman pens his diatribes that they extend so long. There’s not a logical path to get from his point A to his point Z without a ton of long winded obscurantism to disguise the paranoid phantasms that drive his sick mind to conclusions and delusion at odds with reality.

I bolded my favorite part.

3 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 8:18:54am
In preparation for this conflict, [Breivik's] manuscript laid out plans for the formation of a Christian army, known as the Knights Templar, to wage “guerrilla warfare against the Multiculturalist Alliance through a constant campaign of shock attacks.”

I didn't realize he had so explicitly stated his desire to kill liberals.

4 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:07:14am

He's back like McRib! We can only hope it's for a limited time.

5 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:10:20am
“If I was indeed an inspiration for his work, I feel the way the Beatles must have felt when they learned that Charles Manson had committed murder after being inspired by messages he thought he heard in their song lyrics.”

You, sir, are no John Lennon. And more specifically, Brievik didn't 'think he heard' messages in your writings that weren't there: they were. He didn't imagine them. He merely acted upon those messages.

6 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:11:48am

I suppose he realized he didn't have any other marketable skills, so he had to continue doing what he does best. Can you get a grad degree in Hate?

7 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:17:11am

None of these bigoted assholes spent one second reflecting on their undeniable influence on Breivik. Fjordman cried some crocodile tears, and then just waited for the heat to die down. Spencer, Geller, and the rest never even slowed down -- they've been spewing non-stop hatred every single day.

8 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:18:25am

If they cannot connect A to B in their writings, how do you expect them to connect their writings to Breivik?

9 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:19:16am

re: #7 Charles

None of these bigoted assholes spent one second reflecting on their undeniable influence on Breivik. Fjordman cried some crocodile tears, and then just waited for the heat to die down. Spencer, Geller, and the rest never even slowed down -- they've been spewing non-stop hatred every single day.

They all knew that this was a possibility. Anyone who goes around spreading hate and paranoia does.

Their first response, the very first, was 'oh, look, now this will be blamed on us, we're the victims'.

10 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:24:58am

re: #9 SanFranciscoZionist

Their first response, the very first, was 'oh, look, now this will be blamed on us, we're the victims'.

= The real racists are the ones who cry racism

= I know you are but what am I?

= Am not, am too, am not, am too, am too x1,000,000 more than you ever say.

I keep thinking that at it's core, the thinking involved here isn't any more sophisticated than a pre-teen or teen. The rhetoric and style may be more sophisticated or complex, but the distilled logic is not.

11 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:25:08am

Why, when I try to ding up a comment, I get swept back out to the main page?

12 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:25:33am

I went to Gates of Vienna, and see that Fjordy is whining about censorship by the Nowegian publisher of his drivel. Edward May ("Baron Bodissey")'s intro:

Today’s edition of the Norwegian newspaper VG published an essay by Fjordman. The text, however, had been significantly redacted by the editors of VG without the author’s consent. To set the record straight, the complete article is reproduced below in English, followed by the original Norwegian.

Just as we did several weeks ago, we aim to overcome the stifling censorship imposed by the Norwegian media by spreading this essay as widely as possible. To help the cause of free speech, please mirror it on your blog or website.

We intend to demonstrate once again to the Norwegian newspapers that we can reach a wider readership than they can.

Publishing in English would have a larger target audience. I hope those they reach are as disgusted as I am.

13 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:26:00am

I just found this on CNN.

Yemeni women burn veils to protest regime.

Odd form of protest, but it may be a sign of some sort.

14 Kragar  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:27:18am

re: #13 ProLifeLiberal

I just found this on CNN.

Yemeni women burn veils to protest regime.

Odd form of protest, but it may be a sign of some sort.

Considering what the veil means to Islamic women, thats pretty major

15 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:27:47am

re: #12 wrenchwench

I went to Gates of Vienna, and see that Fjordy is whining about censorship by the Nowegian publisher of his drivel. Edward May ("Baron Bodissey")'s intro:

Publishing in English would have a larger target audience. I hope those they reach are as disgusted as I am.

I'm surprised they even bothered publishing it at all if they had to redact 90% (Guesstimating) of what was in it.

16 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:28:38am

re: #11 Alouette

Why, when I try to ding up a comment, I get swept back out to the main page?

Because of Internet Explorer. Try clearing cache and reloading.

17 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:29:15am

re: #16 Charles

Because of Internet Explorer. Try clearing cache and reloading.

Just did that, thanks. (Have to use IE8 here, no other browsers are permitted)

18 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:30:24am

re: #17 Alouette

Just did that, thanks. (Have to use IE8 here, no other browsers are permitted)

I'm sorry you have to suffer like that. If they want to use IE, why can't they at least use IE9, which is actually a good browser?

19 freetoken  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:31:06am

In not totally unrelated news:

Key Euro Debt Summit Begins In Brussels

The European debt crisis is part of the foment that is stirring various corners of Europe towards nationalism. If the Euro-zone can't get the debt problem under control then financial institutions will suffer, some will go under, and a repeat of 2008 may occur. These sort of shocks (since they inevitably lead to unemployment and lower living standards) can spur groups to irrationality, self-defeat (e.g. Tea Party) or violence that otherwise might be avoided.

20 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:32:13am

re: #13 ProLifeLiberal

It's hardly an odd form. They're protesting the harsh interpretation of Islam that subjugated women. They are protesting for more freedom, so burning the veil is a symbol of protesting that kind of oppression.

It's akin to bra burning - a liberating moment for Muslim women in Yemen.

Yet, the Yemeni regime has cracked down repeatedly against the Islamists, including AQ, and some of those groups are hoping to fill the power vacuum if the regime falls. That could leave these women in a worse position if the Islamists rise to power. So, in some respects this is a protest against the Islamists who might rise to power if the current regime falls, as much as it is about getting more rights from the current regime. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

21 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:34:22am

re: #20 lawhawk

It's hardly an odd form. They're protesting the harsh interpretation of Islam that subjugated women. They are protesting for more freedom, so burning the veil is a symbol of protesting that kind of oppression.

It's akin to bra burning - a liberating moment for Muslim women in Yemen.

Yet, the Yemeni regime has cracked down repeatedly against the Islamists, including AQ, and some of those groups are hoping to fill the power vacuum if the regime falls. That could leave these women in a worse position if the Islamists rise to power. So, in some respects this is a protest against the Islamists who might rise to power if the current regime falls, as much as it is about getting more rights from the current regime. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Well, except bra burning never actually happened. :P

Basically agree with the rest of what you say, though.

22 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:35:48am

I saw also at GoV that Robert Spencer is taking his act on the road. He's going to Australia, hosted by an organization that has this as the culmination of their "About" statement:

In opposing the impositions of Islam, we equally oppose those who have been groomed to enable the spread of Islam in Australia by means of nihilistic multiculturalism, moral relativism and suffocating political correctness.

Gee, what does that remind me of?

In preparation for this conflict, [Breivik's] manuscript laid out plans for the formation of a Christian army, known as the Knights Templar, to wage “guerrilla warfare against the Multiculturalist Alliance through a constant campaign of shock attacks.”

23 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:36:16am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They are very pissed that that no one is caring about their well-being. They should act up. A good start.

Only about 1/2 of the ladies at MSA where the veil. And I give out hugs to a group of them that doesn't fit with the Veiled/Not Veiled group(I can hug some but not all from either group). They are just normal people who might decide to wear a headscarf because of faith.

On the other hand, the Pakistani from yesterday has me tweaked. I will be calling another (a third opinion on the matter) to see what she thinks.

24 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:37:35am

re: #18 Simply Sarah

I'm sorry you have to suffer like that. If they want to use IE, why can't they at least use IE9, which is actually a good browser?

There are a lot of internal apps here that were developed for IE8 only.

25 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:37:46am

re: #23 ProLifeLiberal

I have seen some crazy stylish Muslim garb here in NYC, with some of it just being resplendent and some of it cut in such a way that the modesty is definitely only in the lack of transparency, because otherwise it shows off the body to an amazing degree.

Heh. Revolution through fashion.

26 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:39:05am

re: #24 Alouette

There are a lot of internal apps here that were developed for IE8 only.

Figured as much. Still pretty annoying, though.

27 mikec6666  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:40:15am

re: #7 Charles

The far right has never been big on correlation between rhetoric and actions. What might result is the urge to think before speaking.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:42:24am

re: #13 ProLifeLiberal

I just found this on CNN.

Yemeni women burn veils to protest regime.

Odd form of protest, but it may be a sign of some sort.

Bra-burning? Basically?

What I find interesting is that the ladies burning the veils are also WEARING veils. So this doesn't seem to mean they're not veiling, just that they're angry with the regime.

29 Bentis Fughazi  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:43:07am

re: #18 Simply Sarah

I'm sorry you have to suffer like that. If they want to use IE, why can't they at least use IE9, which is actually a good browser?

Workplaces often have bespoke applications which not only require IE, but also don't play well with newer versions of same. Add to that the desire to provide in house support to a standard desktop environment, and deployment of a second browser also goes out the window. We only moved from IE 6 (shudder) to IE 8 in the last year.

Now, back to our scheduled game of Whack-A-Bigot.

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:43:55am

re: #20 lawhawk

It's hardly an odd form. They're protesting the harsh interpretation of Islam that subjugated women. They are protesting for more freedom, so burning the veil is a symbol of protesting that kind of oppression.
.

I'm not sure this is it, judging from the text of the article.

31 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:44:56am

re: #29 Mentis Fugit

Workplaces often have bespoke applications which not only require IE, but also don't play well with newer versions of same. Add to that the desire to provide in house support to a standard desktop environment, and deployment of a second browser also goes out the window. We only moved from IE 6 (shudder) to IE 8 in the last year.

Now, back to our scheduled game of Whack-A-Bigot.

Heh, don't need to tell me. I work in one of those workplaces, although they've improved on that lately.

32 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:47:12am

re: #21 Simply Sarah

Well, except bra burning never actually happened. :P

Basically agree with the rest of what you say, though.

Not much, but some.

[Link: mediamythalert.files.wordpress.com...]

33 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:52:35am

re: #32 wrenchwench

Not much, but some.

[Link: mediamythalert.files.wordpress.com...]

Well, OK, maybe it did happen a few times, but it wasn't some wide spread thing in feminist demonstrations.

Personally, I don't care much one way or another, since I would be supportive of the act if it were done (Which isn't to say bras don't have their uses at times, for sure). Perhaps it's a bad reaction to say it's mostly a myth, since I should just be defending the concept, regardless of if it happened or not.

34 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:57:44am

I think even though the hatemongers are back to their usual, a lot of ordinary people got to see the very ugly flipside to their movement. I hope it helps to inoculate some people against their garbage.

35 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:57:45am

re: #33 Simply Sarah

Well, OK, maybe it did happen a few times, but it wasn't some wide spread thing in feminist demonstrations.

Personally, I don't care much one way or another, since I would be supportive of the act if it were done (Which isn't to say bras don't have their uses at times, for sure). Perhaps it's a bad reaction to say it's mostly a myth, since I should just be defending the concept, regardless of if it happened or not.

The reason it got blown up more is that it is titillating. If you're a newspaper editor in 1970, and you have ten pictures of a person with a sign, and one of a woman burning her bra, guess which one made the front page.

As for why we need bras:

36 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:58:00am

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

Looks like you're right. This Daily Mail article has more details.

The protest, however, was not related to women's rights or issues surrounding the Islamic veils - rather, the act of women burning their clothing is a symbolic Bedouin tribal gesture signifying an appeal for help to tribesmen, in this case to stop the attacks on the protesters.
The women who burned clothing in the capital were wearing traditional veils at the time, many covered in black from head to toe.

The protest today comes as clashes intensify between forces loyal to President Ali Abdullah Saleh and renegade fighters who have sided with the opposition in demands that the president step down.
The most recent clashes in Sanaa and elsewhere claimed 25 lives, officials said.

Looks like I was projecting my values upon their protest - they wanted to get help for fellow protests and the burning of the veil is more like an SOS rather than a call for more women's rights.

37 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:58:13am

re: #22 wrenchwench

I saw also at GoV that Robert Spencer is taking his act on the road. He's going to Australia, hosted by an organization that has this as the culmination of their "About" statement:


Gee, what does that remind me of?

That's our answering cultural war salvo to Australia sending Ken Ham here...
/

38 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:58:43am

re: #20 lawhawk

It's akin to bra burning - a liberating moment for Muslim women in Yemen.

Ahem

#4.
Feminist Bra Burnings

The Insanity:

For a few decades the "bra-burning feminist" was as much an archetype as the "dope-smoking hippie." On The Simpsons, Marge met Homer because she was in detention for participating in a bra burning.

The story goes that at protests in the late sixties, feminists raging against the male-dominated world defiantly removed and set fire to their bras. It was a powerful statement, symbolically declaring the women's desire for their feminine power to burst out of its patriarchal restraints and bounce free, no longer confined by the lace and spandex of traditional social mores.


But in Reality...

This one literally never happened as far as anyone can tell. Women protesting against the 1968 Miss America contest in New York did toss several items into a trash can, including bras, girdles, high heeled shoes and women's magazines, labeling them "instruments of torture." But no fire was involved, except for the fire of burning feminine rage. Neither did the women actually remove their bras at the protest, inexplicably opting to gather the bras beforehand, and remain fully clothed.

It wasn't long after the era of Vietnam protesters burning their draft cards, and a journalist or two presumably conflated one of the concepts with the other. After all, they're all hippies, right?

Why Do We Believe It?

There's the fact that it involves topless women. Even the Wall Street Journal knows you get more readers if you can tie the story to unrestrained titties. Also, most of us want to believe people with non-mainstream opinions are all on the far-out fringe, doing crazy things they'll be embarrassed by later in life.

It saves us the trouble of listening to them. A woman demanding equal pay for equal work is making a point you have to address. A woman burning a bra and claiming it's a torture device is just a silly sideshow you can safely dismiss after a few minutes of vigorous masturbation.

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

39 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 10:59:54am

re: #38 000G

See also [Link: www.snopes.com...] and [Link: womenshistory.about.com...] and [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

40 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:00:24am

re: #35 EmmmieG

The reason it got blown up more is that it is titillating. If you're a newspaper editor in 1970, and you have ten pictures of a person with a sign, and one of a woman burning her bra, guess which one made the front page.

Oh, I know. I guess I just feel the concept has been twisted to ignore many of the other issues being protested and to paint them as just being wacky.

As for why we need bras:

[Video]

:P

41 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:02:44am

re: #39 000G

See also [Link: www.snopes.com...] and [Link: womenshistory.about.com...] and [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

See also #32.

42 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:05:04am

The case has been made that Fjordman/Spencer/Geller, while maybe not directly inciting to violence, indirectly incite through logical conclusions in their rhetoric.

Besides dehumanization and caricaturization of Muslims (and 'liberals' or others who don't drink the koolaid meme), they use imagery that we (USA, Norway, Europe) are 'under attack' or 'being invaded.' We're being 'overtaken' and our 'culture and values' are being subjugated, or, 'destroyed.'

The only difference between Geller and Spencer/Fjordman are a scholarly sheen and better writing skills. Geller is a hack who makes up for it with louder rhetoric and adjective abuse. But they are all saying the same thing.

What else would be the logical conclusion of this repeated rhetoric?

43 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:09:03am

There are a couple of things that make me slow down in any historical report and eye the report a little more critically.

One is any Templar knights/masonic conspiracy. Big red flag.

The next is sexually titillating stuff. It could be true; bad stuff happens with sex all the time. It's just that the sex stuff (burning bras, etc.) frequently tends to get more airtime than it deserves.

For example: Why are we all more upset that Thomas Jefferson and Sally Heming likely had a sexual relationship than we are that her father gave her as a wedding gift to her own sister? That part disturbs me more.

44 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:10:18am

re: #42 BigPapa

The case has been made that Fjordman/Spencer/Geller, while maybe not directly inciting to violence, indirectly incite through logical conclusions in their rhetoric.

Besides dehumanization and caricaturization of Muslims (and 'liberals' or others who don't drink the koolaid meme), they use imagery that we (USA, Norway, Europe) are 'under attack' or 'being invaded.' We're being 'overtaken' and our 'culture and values' are being subjugated, or, 'destroyed.'

The only difference between Geller and Spencer/Fjordman are a scholarly sheen and better writing skills. Geller is a hack who makes up for it with louder rhetoric and adjective abuse. But they are all saying the same thing.

What else would be the logical conclusion of this repeated rhetoric?

Spencer wrote Geller's latest book. And he a poor writer himself. I read one of his books and his writing stinks. He's just briefer than Fjordy. He has the advantage of not needing to be translated from Norwegian, though.

They may not be legally guilty of anything, but they are certainly culpable.

45 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:12:18am

re: #42 BigPapa

Besides dehumanization and caricaturization of Muslims (and 'liberals' or others who don't drink the koolaid meme), they use imagery that we (USA, Norway, Europe) are 'under attack' or 'being invaded.' We're being 'overtaken' and our 'culture and values' are being subjugated, or, 'destroyed.'

All I have to do is walk outside to know what a load of bullshit this is.

46 erik_t  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:16:33am

Haters gonna hate.

47 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:21:22am

re: #45 Alouette

All I have to do is walk outside to know what a load of bullshit this is.

Yeah. It's clear we are 'under attack' from morons like Spencer/Geller/Fjordy.

As we can see they are just as dangerous as the anti-West Islamic fundamentalists preaching their poisonous vitriol that inspire the OBL's and al Quaedas to formulate actual working plans and carry out actions.

Good day folks, I have to do some work but I'll check in if I can.

48 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:25:57am

Well Fjordy must not be a very happy camper. Neither the Harpy or the Gnome has anything up about him being back in circulation. Wonder why?

49 freetoken  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:29:53am

In the recent few weeks, or months (time is going by faster...) I've been cogitating on what is the "next big thing". As in, what is happening to the online universe, blogosphere, 'net, web, social media, etc.

It's hard to get a feeling for what is happening, but I sense that there has set in a real fatigue in being able to keep up with all the changes, a kind of Brave New World syndrome.

We saw the "Dot Com" bubble and it burst, and now I wonder if we aren't seeing an Info Bubble, so to speak, that is bursting.

For example, there is ample, very ample, online evidence for just about any topic, and yet when one reads comments in local online papers, various forums, etc. it seems like the entrenched opinions are no more malleable than they ever were.

I notice that our political system is so frozen as to be unable to do anything but campaign 24/7. Notice how the Florida GOP primary was pushed up - even though the RNC penalized FL by taking away half their delegate strength all Florida did in response (today) was to make it a winner-take-all primary, which means all of Florida's 50 delegates still act a group just as large as IA-NH-SC, the traditional early states. And NV has moved up their caucus, which means that NH has to move theirs up to fit between IA and NV, so it all gets to take place in January, the coldest month.

All our political system is able to do is campaign, and that means advertise, raising of money, and spending on more silly adverts and "debates".

And yet our society, as I started out this little essay, has shown that it has become fatigued by all this info-overload.

50 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:33:20am

re: #49 freetoken

For example, there is ample, very ample, online evidence for just about any topic, and yet when one reads comments in local online papers, various forums, etc. it seems like the entrenched opinions are no more malleable than they ever were.

It's the echo chamber effect. People seek sources of information that will confirm what they already believe. Consequently we see more polarisation, not less.

51 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:36:06am

re: #43 EmmmieG

There are a couple of things that make me slow down in any historical report and eye the report a little more critically.

One is any Templar knights/masonic conspiracy. Big red flag.

The next is sexually titillating stuff. It could be true; bad stuff happens with sex all the time. It's just that the sex stuff (burning bras, etc.) frequently tends to get more airtime than it deserves.

For example: Why are we all more upset that Thomas Jefferson and Sally Heming likely had a sexual relationship than we are that her father gave her as a wedding gift to her own sister? That part disturbs me more.

We're not all upset about that. But I have a potential answer, though. The buying and selling/gifting of persons as property doesn't really trouble people that much, when you get down to it.

52 freetoken  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:38:01am

re: #50 iceweasel

53 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:39:51am

re: #46 erik_t

Haters gonna hate.

Image: haters-gonna-hate-pink-stormtrooper.jpg

54 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:41:03am

re: #49 freetoken

It's also a relevance factor. If you are a state late in the primary season, the candidate may be chosen by the time you get to vote. So, some states jockey to move up in the primaries to increase their relevance.

Last time around, NJ voted during Super Tuesday, but this time, they've pushed out ahead of Super Tuesday.

If polling was consigned to two dates - one for historically early ones (NH, IA, etc.) and then a Super Tuesday for everyone else, it would change the dynamics and force out candidates who are running vaporware/malware campaigns and/or have no chance of winning at all.

That includes folks like eg. Paul, Bachmann, Santorum, etc. It benefits candidates who have ground games in big states, but small states would complain that they wouldn't see campaigning by the candidates because they'd focus instead on the states where more voters are located.

55 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:43:41am

re: #53 wozzablog

He's just missing the Hello Kitty light saber. (poor substitute, but it is nonlethal).

56 freetoken  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:47:08am

re: #54 lawhawk

I guess my lament wasn't so much over the dynamics of state primaries, but the nature of our political system that is fixated only on such dynamics rather than real governance.

So the question I have is what happened to real governance?

Perhaps the fatigue I wrote of can be a reason. Maybe it is a collapse of future expectations, a narrowing of our view of the future to one that is at best murky.

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:47:27am

re: #43 EmmmieG

For example: Why are we all more upset that Thomas Jefferson and Sally Heming likely had a sexual relationship than we are that her father gave her as a wedding gift to her own sister? That part disturbs me more.

Because, for the most part, 'we' aren't so concerned about Sally as we are for Jefferson's reputation.

58 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:53:05am

re: #56 freetoken

I guess my lament wasn't so much over the dynamics of state primaries, but the nature of our political system that is fixated only on such dynamics rather than real governance.

So the question I have is what happened to real governance?

Perhaps the fatigue I wrote of can be a reason. Maybe it is a collapse of future expectations, a narrowing of our view of the future to one that is at best murky.

Because it has devolved to "The Party Forever and Always" combined with the desire (and requirement at this point?) to pull in those contributions and thus be beholden to rich interests and party machines.

59 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:53:40am

re: #55 lawhawk

How about some Hello Kitty Beer?

60 jaunte  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:54:23am

Morton Lawyers Urge Court to Force Ex DA's Testimony

Former Williamson County District Attorney Ken Anderson, who prosecuted Michael Morton for murder in 1987, today called on the state's highest criminal court to stop an investigation into whether alleged misconduct by his office led to Morton's wrongful conviction.

The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals officially exonerated Morton this month after DNA evidence revealed that another man was likely responsible for the 1986 killing of his wife, Christine Morton. Morton was released after spending nearly 25 years in prison.

61 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:58:57am

re: #59 Bubblehead II

Well, your Hello Kitty stormtrooper needs something to kick back and relax after a long day on Tatooine looking for droids under the hot suns and dealing with unruly Jawas and farmers with ill-mannered stepnephews.

62 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 11:59:38am

re: #61 lawhawk

Well, your Hello Kitty stormtrooper needs something to kick back and relax after a long day on Tatooine looking for droids under the hot suns and dealing with unruly Jawas and farmers with ill-mannered stepkids.

Step nephews, I thought. Or was it step grandson?

63 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:00:40pm

re: #62 EmmmieG

Fixed.

64 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:04:07pm

re: #49 freetoken

I don't have time to put a deeper comment on it but I agree and some ideas have been percolating in me noggin for a while on this. Nice post.

I think it's clear that more information is good. However, in a barrage of information, we revert back to what we already think we know or believe, then seek out affirming information amidst the noise floor of all other information.

65 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:04:30pm

re: #63 lawhawk

Fixed.

Heaven forbid that LGF should misstate a key piece of geek trivia. We might lose our geek certification.

66 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:23:45pm

Aminah, if you're reading, what's your take on [Link: www.fiqhcouncil.org...] ?

67 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:24:28pm

re: #7 Charles

None of these bigoted assholes spent one second reflecting on their undeniable influence on Breivik. Fjordman cried some crocodile tears, and then just waited for the heat to die down. Spencer, Geller, and the rest never even slowed down -- they've been spewing non-stop hatred every single day.

And they can all get fucked...

68 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:26:30pm

OT: Fox News 'Exclusive' - ACORN Behind OWS

/tiredofFoxNewsharpingonACORNalready

69 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:27:28pm

re: #68 makeitstop

OT: Fox News 'Exclusive' - ACORN Behind OWS

/tiredofFoxNewsharpingonACORNalready

Oh FFS.

70 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:29:39pm

re: #61 lawhawk

It just seems sacrilegious on so many levels.

71 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:31:42pm

re: #68 makeitstop

OT: Fox News 'Exclusive' - ACORN Behind OWS

/tiredofFoxNewsharpingonACORNalready

Zombie ACORN!!!1!

...according to our [anonymous] source.

72 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:33:07pm

re: #68 makeitstop

OT: Fox News 'Exclusive' - ACORN Behind OWS

/tiredofFoxNewsharpingonACORNalready

I called it that fox would do that in my own head a couple of weeks back.....but didn't commit it to paper or computer screen lest it leached into someone else's brain space

73 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:33:14pm

re: #71 wrenchwench

...according to our [anonymous] source.

...who is willing to spill the beans on ACORN's nefarious plot.

Roger Ailes' body is inhabited by the ghost of P.T. Barnum.

74 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:34:32pm

re: #73 makeitstop

...who is willing to spill the beans on ACORN's nefarious plot.

Roger Ailes' body is inhabited by the ghost of P.T. Barnum.

That's not really fair to Barnum! He seemed to be a decent guy, in the end.

75 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:34:50pm

re: #73 makeitstop

...who is willing to spill the beans on ACORN's nefarious plot.

Roger Ailes' body is inhabited by the ghost of P.T. Barnum.

Disgruntled canvassers are a dime a dozen. I used to be one, although I never trashed the organization I canvassed for.

76 Henchman 25  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:41:36pm

re: #68 makeitstop

OT: Fox News 'Exclusive' - ACORN Behind OWS

/tiredofFoxNewsharpingonACORNalready

ACORN is dead. How the fuck can they be behind anything?

77 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:42:13pm

re: #76 SteelPH

Black people still exist.

78 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:42:20pm

re: #76 SteelPH

ACORN is dead. How the fuck can they be behind anything?

They faked their death, like Elvis!

79 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:42:50pm

re: #76 SteelPH

ACORN is dead. How the fuck can they be behind anything?

No, no. They just want us all to think that they're dead, since that will keep us from stopping them from taking over!
/ Shouldn't really be needed.

80 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:45:02pm

re: #76 SteelPH

ACORN is dead. How the fuck can they be behind anything?

In Fox News' little hamburger universe, anything is possible - because their viewers/readers will just accept it as fact.

81 blueraven  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:45:52pm

re: #76 SteelPH

ACORN is dead. How the fuck can they be behind anything?

Acorn ZOMBIES!

82 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:46:48pm

re: #68 makeitstop

OT: Fox News 'Exclusive' - ACORN Behind OWS

/tiredofFoxNewsharpingonACORNalready

Zombcorn?

(That was supposed to reply to #81) I am fail.

83 S'latch  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:47:40pm

Fjordman wrote that Anders Behring Breivik's terrorism will not dissuade him from attacking Islam?

So, that is why Breivik murdered all those people--to dissuade Fjordman from attacking Islam.

(By the way, it is curious that everyone here is still referring to Peder Are Nøstvold Jensen by his pseudonym, Fjordman. I don't think his real name has yet appeared in this post.)

84 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:49:14pm

re: #76 SteelPH

ACORN is dead. How the fuck can they be behind anything?

// They just faked their death and renamed themselves.

"The former director of New York ACORN, Jon Kest, and his top aides are now busy working at protest events for New York Communities for Change (NYCC). That organization was created in late 2009 when some ACORN offices disbanded and reorganized under new names after undercover video exposes prompted Congress to cut off federal funds."

85 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:52:08pm

re: #83 Lawrence Schmerel

Fjordman wrote that Anders Behring Breivik's terrorism will not dissuade him from attacking Islam?

So, that is why Breivik murdered all those people--to dissuade Fjordman from attacking Islam.

(By the way, it is curious that everyone here is still referring to Peder Are Nøstvold Jensen by his pseudonym, Fjordman. I don't think his real name has yet appeared in this post.)

Not everyone knows Fjordman's real name or would recognize it even if they did see it.

86 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:53:08pm

EU calls for medium-term bank debt guarantees

In the joint statement issued after a meeting of all 27 EU leaders in Brussels, the heads of state said measures for restoring confidence in the banking sector are "urgently needed." The statement said guarantees "on bank liabilities would be required to provide more direct support for banks in accessing term funding (short-term funding being available at the ECB and relevant national central banks), where appropriate. This is also an essential part of the strategy to limit deleveraging actions." A repeat of 2008, when national governemnts set up liquidity programs, may not be adequate under current market conditions, the statement said. The EU leaders urged a "truly coordinated" approach, encouraging the European Commission to work with the European Banking Authority, European Central Bank and other bodies.

I'm as pissed at the banks as anyone else but we have to deal with reality here. Like it or not markets and economies react positively to these bank bailouts despite the populist rhetoric about jailing the bankers and shutting them down.

87 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:54:13pm
Sources said NYCC has hired about 100 former ACORN-affiliated staff members from other cities – paying some of them $100 a day - to attend and support Occupy Wall Street. Dozens of New York homeless people recruited from shelters are also being paid to support the protests, at the rate of $10 an hour, the sources said.

Wait a damn minute. They're only paying their staff a hundred bucks a day but 240 a day to homeless folks?

10.00 per hour, 24 hours a day...240 per day. 7 days a week... 1,680 per week. 52 weeks per year? 87,360 per year.

If they're not careful, they'll get into the one percent!
/

88 S'latch  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:54:39pm

re: #85 Alouette

Not even the Southern Poverty Law Center article linked here, entitled "Blogger Who Inspired Norwegian Terrorist Returns To Writing," uses his real name.

89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:54:56pm

re: #85 Alouette

Not everyone knows Fjordman's real name or would recognize it even if they did see it.

I've ignored Fjordman's fake name already.

Do I win a prize?

90 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:54:59pm

re: #76 SteelPH

ACORN begat the WFP. ACORN begat the NYCC. The NYCC and WFP begets spinoffs that go and fuel the OWS. /but not really.

It's not surprising that some of the same names have made their way into the OWS movement. Goals may be aligned (as much as goals have been outlined by the OWS) and people involved in these projects are likely to share similar interests/outlooks.

So, I'm not surprised that someone who formerly worked for ACORN and now NYCC is now involved in OWS.

They haven't done anything wrong by and through their involvement. If they think it will further their interests, let 'em have at it. I don't think it's all that successful and takes away from other projects that NYCC works on - and they're keeping a low profile in any event.

91 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 12:56:02pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

EU calls for medium-term bank debt guarantees

I'm as pissed at the banks as anyone else but we have to deal with reality here. Like it or not markets and economies react positively to these bank bailouts despite the populist rhetoric about jailing the bankers and shutting them down.

Well, that's at least in part because the markets take that as a sign that their stream of goodies isn't going to be allowed to dry up. I mean, yes, they react well to it, but that doesn't mean the system itself is right or correct.

92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:09:45pm

Alright. Who killed the thread?

Wait... I had just... gotten... here...

Nevermind.

93 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:09:51pm

re: #91 Simply Sarah

Well, that's at least in part because the markets take that as a sign that their stream of goodies isn't going to be allowed to dry up. I mean, yes, they react well to it, but that doesn't mean the system itself is right or correct.

If there's a realistic and practical real world alternative I'd be happy to hear it. As far as the "stream of goodies" goes I think that's an issue for OWS supporters as well. Most people just want things to go back to "normal" so we can all get back to running up credit cards to buy shit we don't need and easy mortgages for houses we can't afford. I can guarantee you that once this crisis is over we'll immediately revert to the same behavior that got us here.

94 Kragar  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:13:08pm
95 Simply Sarah  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:13:23pm

re: #93 Killgore Trout

If there's a realistic and practical real world alternative I'd be happy to hear it. As far as the "stream of goodies" goes I think that's an issue for OWS supporters as well. Most people just want things to go back to "normal" so we can all get back to running up credit cards to buy shit we don't need and easy mortgages for houses we can't afford. I can guarantee you that once this crisis is over we'll immediately revert to the same behavior that got us here.

I wish I had a good solution to this whole mess, but I think we all know it's not even close to an easy fix. Honestly, I think culture needs to change, first of all, so people get a better idea of actual fairness and community and shared humanity, with less idolization of those that have had the luck to become rich and successful. Stop electing people who have the goal of helping big corporations screw over workers. That sort of thing.

Maybe then, we can start to actually do something.

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:14:19pm

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Barton: America Must Instruct Children In 'The Fear Of The Lord'

Should they, like, make horror movies with the Lord in the main role? Or something. Derp.

97 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:15:17pm

The unfortunate part of the echo- chamber effect, AKA confirmation bias, is that people willingly seek out information that confirms their preconceived views of the world, and will selectively remember the information that proves their point, whether it's true or not. They make connections to events where there are none.
That, to me is the danger of this hate speech, because economic anxiety nowadays is systemic; the individual has little control of their ability to provide for their family. That leads to the kind of dehumanizing fear, in which people behave irrationally.
To my mind, actions of Spencer, Limbaugh, etc. Are a testament to their moral cowardice. It signifies an inability to adapt to an ever-changing environment, and the explicit denial of the  innate knowledge that you and your ilk are doomed to extinction. The time and energy they use to focus on the people they dislike, makes xenophobia palpable to people who, in better times would ignore the pernicious speech of Spencer, and his minions.
They're evil because they exploit fear, and are well aware of the consequences.

98 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:16:39pm

re: #93 Killgore Trout

If there's a realistic and practical real world alternative I'd be happy to hear it. As far as the "stream of goodies" goes I think that's an issue for OWS supporters as well. Most people just want things to go back to "normal" so we can all get back to running up credit cards to buy shit we don't need and easy mortgages for houses we can't afford. I can guarantee you that once this crisis is over we'll immediately revert to the same behavior that got us here.

That is, frankly, one of my biggest problems with the Occupy stuff. It's certainly true that corporations have become more and more exploitative, but that pales in comparison to the fact that we cannot continue as though our resources are unending. We need to become a sustainable economy. I do think that the two things go somewhat hand in hand, but I'd like to see it talked about by the Occupy people.

99 Kragar  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:18:01pm

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Should they, like, make horror movies with the Lord in the main role? Or something. Derp.

"He died for your sins, now he's back... and its your turn to return the favor."

100 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:23:48pm

re: #98 Obdicut

That is, frankly, one of my biggest problems with the Occupy stuff. It's certainly true that corporations have become more and more exploitative, but that pales in comparison to the fact that we cannot continue as though our resources are unending. We need to become a sustainable economy. I do think that the two things go somewhat hand in hand, but I'd like to see it talked about by the Occupy people.

Well, said.

101 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:27:02pm

re: #98 Obdicut

I don't know if you've read any of the interviews with the Ad Busters guy. He does talk about that a bit. I'm not an economist so I can't judge his proposal but his idea is a "no growth" economy that would function by being self sufficient instead of mandatory and constant expansion. I don't like a lot of his ideas but at least he has one. I think it's interesting.

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:30:04pm

re: #98 Obdicut

That is, frankly, one of my biggest problems with the Occupy stuff. It's certainly true that corporations have become more and more exploitative, but that pales in comparison to the fact that we cannot continue as though our resources are unending. We need to become a sustainable economy. I do think that the two things go somewhat hand in hand, but I'd like to see it talked about by the Occupy people.

it's harder to get a protest organized around something that is an abstract to most people, whereas income inequality and bank/corp malfeasance is something that hits people personally

103 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:33:18pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

I find him a little frustrating to read/listen to, because he seems half like he's really thought things through and half attracted to ideas because they're cool.

104 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 1:37:34pm

re: #99 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Stagnant wages.
Americans, just want $20 to mean something again. This morning I spent $18 on some damn lunchmeat.
Remember when you could spot somebody $5 for gas to go somewhere?

105 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 2:05:53pm

Thanks for the front page placement Charles. I just noticed that I should have said "non-white and non-traditional" instead of "non-white and Traditional..." Oh well.

106 Kragar  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 3:47:52pm
107 Peter_P3  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 6:14:42pm

Funny logic here.

If someone writes critically about multiculturalism and feminism etc. he is not only considered a tribal supremacist hatemonger but also considered a catalyst for a mass murderer.

But when someone else carries out devastating terror-attacks in the name of Allah and the Quran w/ hadjis he is only considered as abusing a very peaceful religion, and not being a true muslim?

It seems to be the attitude in here, that it is thoughts and opinions and ideas that kill, not people. But how come the same standard doesnt apply to islams darkest parts eg. the radicalised islamists?

Because you dont agree with this guy you go namecalling? (hatemonger, bigot, evil, penning everything non-white (source please?) and illogical. Thats alot of Breivik rhetoric though...

BTW more than 100 posts and less than 10% merely discuss the issue of the post.

When do I see the real arguments against his writings instead of the attempted character assasination?

108 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 6:23:03pm

re: #107 Peter_P3

We're familiar with his writing.

Can you back this up?

But when someone else carries out devastating terror-attacks in the name of Allah and the Quran w/ hadjis he is only considered as abusing a very peaceful religion, and not being a true muslim?

Who here has said this?

Please be specific.

109 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 6:51:11pm

Amazing. A Fjordman die-hard, still holding forth at LGF, after everything that's been posted here about him and his disgusting crypto-fascist bullshit.

110 jaunte  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 6:57:02pm

re: #107 Peter_P3

If someone writes critically about multiculturalism and feminism etc.

Be specific about which of his ideas you want to support, or don't complain about not seeing 'real arguments against his writings.'

111 Peter_P3  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 7:24:33pm
Amazing. A Fjordman die-hard, still holding forth at LGF, after everything that's been posted here about him and his disgusting crypto-fascist bullshit.

No you haven´t posted enough bad stuff about him for me to stay away from here. Sorry.

112 CuriousLurker  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 7:25:55pm

Appears in dead thread: Check
Low number of comments posted: Check
Bad karma is high: Check
Never contributes in Pages: Check
Uses false equivalence: Check
Tosses straw man into thread: Check
Whines about how crappy LGF has become: Check

This behavior is familiar...

113 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 7:27:30pm

re: #111 Peter_P3

Have you bothered to look?

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Oct 26, 2011 9:30:07pm

re: #111 Peter_P3

No you haven´t posted enough bad stuff about him for me to stay away from here. Sorry.

Must be your upbringing

115 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 27, 2011 6:07:07pm

re: #111 Peter_P3

Maybe you should make the effort to think for yourself, and actually read what Jensen writes.

Or maybe you agree with his white nationalist hate speech.


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