Herman Cain May Have Breached Federal Campaign Laws

When it rains it pours
Politics • Views: 25,135

The sex scandal may be the least of Herman Cain’s worries; now reports are emerging about some very shady payments from an organization that has mysteriously gone out of business. And that’s not all.

Herman Cain’s two top campaign aides ran a private Wisconsin-based corporation that helped the GOP presidential candidate get his fledgling campaign off the ground by originally footing the bill for tens of thousands of dollars in expenses for such items as iPads, chartered flights and travel to Iowa and Las Vegas - something that might breach federal tax and campaign law, according to sources and documents.

Internal financial records obtained by No Quarter show that Prosperity USA said it was owed about $40,000 by the Cain campaign for a variety of items in February and March. Cain began taking donations for his presidential bid on Jan. 1.

Prosperity USA was owned and run by Wisconsin political operatives Mark Block and Linda Hansen, Cain’s current chief of staff and deputy chief of staff, respectively.

The authenticity of the records was verified by two individuals close to the firm.

It is not known if Cain’s election fund eventually paid back Prosperity USA, which now appears defunct. The candidate’s federal election filings make no mention of the debt, and the figures in the documents don’t match payments made by the candidate’s campaign.

In addition to picking up these expenses at least initially, Prosperity USA also paid as much as $100,000 to the Congress of Racial Equality, a conservative black organization, shortly before Cain was a featured speaker at the group’s annual Martin Luther King Jr. dinner in mid-January.

Cain, who has surged to a top-tier presidential candidate in the past month, apparently was not paid for the appearance. The personal financial disclosure forms for the former CEO of Godfather’s Pizza list no honorariums for speeches.

Election law experts say the transactions raise a host of questions for the private organization, which billed itself as a tax-exempt nonprofit, and the Cain team.

“If the records accurately reflect what occurred, this is way out of bounds,” said a Washington, D.C.-based election lawyer who advises many Republican candidates and conservative groups on campaign issues. The lawyer asked not to be identified because of those affiliations.

Michael Maistelman, a Wisconsin campaign attorney, agreed.

“The number of questionable and possibly illegal transactions conducted on behalf of Herman Cain�is staggering,” said Maistelman, a Democrat who has represented politicians from both parties on campaign issues.

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113 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:08:20am

It's not the chem trails that's gonna get us.

It's the paper trails.

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:08:28am

There are a few places where consulting an expert to make sure you're doing it right is a very good idea.

Taxes is one.

Campaign finance is another.

Cooking, too, but that's for another day.

3 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:08:37am

Well, the "NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!" plan is certainly going to be getting a workout this week.

4 Flounder  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:10:57am

And this all comes out on Monday, the beginning of the news cycle. Coincidence? I don't think so.

5 bratwurst  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:12:31am

The biggest beneficiary of this burgeoning avalanche of bad news for Cain is Rick Perry. His bizarre speech the other night is not getting nearly the scrutiny it otherwise would AND he has a shot at reclaiming his position as the anti-Romney candidate.

6 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:12:46am

This is in the realm of financial and election law forensic accounting. They're going to dig through all the paperwork on his campaign, and when you've got GOP and Democrat election law experts raising red flags, that tells you something is really rotten in Cainland.

For instance:

But by early this year, expenses were far outpacing income at the two entities. Balance sheets showed Wisconsin Prosperity Network was more than $62,000 in the hole by early February; Prosperity USA was in even worse shape, with its liabilities exceeding its assets by $110,000.

In fact, the records indicate Prosperity USA's biggest asset was nearly $40,000 that it was owed by "FOH," a reference to Friends of Herman Cain, the name of Cain's presidential operation.

A more detailed checking account says the Cain campaign owed nearly $15,000 for an "Atlanta invoice," about $17,000 for chartered flight service and $5,000 for travel and meetings in Iowa, Las Vegas, Houston, Dallas and Louisiana. The document says the Cain campaign had been billed $3,700 for iPads purchased on Jan. 4.

A series of small-ticket items for travel and expenses by Block are listed as "not billed to FOH but due from them."

The national election expert who works with GOP candidates said it would be a violation of the tax code for Prosperity USA to advance money to the Cain campaign for these items. She said there also are strict federal election regulations on reporting debts and incurring travel obligations.

"I just don't see how they can justify this," she said. "It's a total mess."

The records suggest that Prosperity USA had been underwriting travel for Cain even before he announced his plans to run for president.

For instance, one document says the group was to be paid $5,000 for the costs associated with Cain's speech in September 2010 to the conservative Right Nation rally in Chicago, an event that the records say Cain attended at the request of Americans for Prosperity. The Cain campaign later used a segment from that speech in a campaign ad.

Along with these expenses, the internal records note Prosperity USA paid for such items as Block's trip to Washington, D.C., to meet with billionaire philanthropist David Koch. Singer Krista Branch, who recorded "I Am America," the unofficial anthem of the tea party movement, was supposed to be paid $3,000 by the Wisconsin group.

Cain has adopted the tune as his campaign song. Branch's husband, Michael, who wrote the song, has been paid $11,250 in his role as the Cain campaign's Tennessee director and $7,360 as a fundraising consultant.

If anything this appears to show just how much Cain is a creation of the Koch enterprise - a manufactured candidate.

Now, with the FEC looking at this, it will get quite interesting for Cain's legal team to explain what the heck was going on at the outset of his campaign and where all the money came from/went, and time frames for when the money was disbursed/spent.

7 celticdragon  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:14:11am

Screaming about

the librul media hates black conservatives!!!!

in 4...3...2...

8 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:14:14am

re: #5 bratwurst

The biggest beneficiary of this burgeoning avalanche of bad news for Cain is Rick Perry. His bizarre speech the other night is not getting nearly the scrutiny it otherwise would AND he has a shot at reclaiming his position as the anti-Romney candidate.

I think Romney will eventually win the nomination, though.

9 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:14:56am

re: #7 celticdragon

Screaming about

in 4...3...2...

Already happened. Rush started his show on just that.

10 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:15:01am

re: #4 Shropshire_Slasher

And this all comes out on Monday, the beginning of the news cycle. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Yep. As I mentioned downstairs, you've got to wonder who's behind putting this out.

I'm thinking Rove. The GOP Money Boys may have made the decision to make short work of Cain.

11 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:15:09am
Block and Hansen have not returned numerous calls in recent days.

Late Friday, Block sent an email saying: "Will be able to respond to you, but need to schedule time to review questions. Obviously in the midst of a Presidential campaign I cannot drop everything."

"...to answer questions about, you know, the legality of the f'in campaign I'm working on."

*Takes drag on cigarette, exhales a thin stream of smoke*

12 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:16:17am

re: #5 bratwurst

The biggest beneficiary of this burgeoning avalanche of bad news for Cain is Rick Perry. His bizarre speech the other night is not getting nearly the scrutiny it otherwise would AND he has a shot at reclaiming his position as the anti-Romney candidate.

I watched clips of that speech this morning.

Dude looked like he was all hopped up on goofballs.

13 Charles Johnson  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:16:57am

re: #7 celticdragon

Screaming about

the librul media hates black conservatives!!!

in 4...3...2...

Oh, they're already doing that. Herman Cain is supposed to absolve them of all racism, so naturally now they can start accusing anyone who criticizes Cain of being a racist.

The wingnut mind is very predictable.

14 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:17:24am
15 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:17:55am

re: #12 makeitstop

I watched clips of that speech this morning.

Dude looked like he was all hopped up on goofballs.

I was wondering if it was some kind of medication issue. That'll probably be the reason given, anyway.

Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit drinking cough syrup!

16 celticdragon  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:18:39am

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Already happened. Rush started his show on just that.

It works every time, and the response from the true believers would make Dr Pavlov proud. My tribe is under attack by hated outsiders!! Must hate! Must respond! Under attack!! Hate!!

It is completely scripted and utterly predictable. We have seen this dozens, if not hundreds of times before.

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:18:51am

re: #4 Shropshire_Slasher

And this all comes out on Monday, the beginning of the news cycle. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Not coincidence.

Someone's hand is on this. I suspect Romney, but who knows?

18 windsagio  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:19:05am

Makes me think, what ever happened with Sarah's Tailored Suits?

19 celticdragon  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:19:51am

re: #13 Charles

in 4...3...2...

Oh, they're already doing that. Herman Cain is supposed to absolve them of all racism, so naturally now they can start accusing anyone who criticizes Cain of being a racist.

The wingnut mind is very predictable.

Yep.

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:21:07am

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

Not coincidence.

Someone's hand is on this. I suspect Romney, but who knows?

Let's be honest: Romney knows how money moves legally and how it doesn't.

On the other hand, this could be Perry, too.

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:22:10am

re: #15 iceweasel

I was wondering if it was some kind of medication issue. That'll probably be the reason given, anyway.

My personal theory is that he took something for back pain or anxiety, poured down a couple of shots on top of it, because who listens to doctors, and...well, the results were good, although not as funny as the scene in "West Wing", where the President gets left with a choice of two pain meds, and thinks he's supposed to take both of them.

22 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:22:16am

re: #20 EmmmieG

Let's be honest: Romney knows how money moves legally and how it doesn't.

On the other hand, this could be Perry, too.

Haven't you realized by now that its always Obama or Soros?

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:24:06am

re: #20 EmmmieG

Let's be honest: Romney knows how money moves legally and how it doesn't.

On the other hand, this could be Perry, too.

It could be either of them easily.

Then there are the further afield possibilities--Bachmann is trying to take Cain out so she can be the flavor of the month and take a second try at viability, or it's the Democrats--I tend to dismiss that last one out of hand, because it's a waste of money and time to go after Cain, he has no lasting power.

24 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:24:39am

re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist

My personal theory is that he took something for back pain or anxiety, poured down a couple of shots on top of it, because who listens to doctors, and...well, the results were good, although not as funny as the scene in "West Wing", where the President gets left with a choice of two pain meds, and thinks he's supposed to take both of them.

In teaching kids about the 55 signers of the declaration, I know always point out two: Josiah Bartlett and Charles Carroll of Carrollton.

Not sure how many years before kids won't care anymore, but at the moment, they've heard these two names.

25 celticdragon  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:25:05am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Limbaugh: Cain Allegations A 'Hit Job'

The "high tech lynching" quote from the Clarence Thomas hearings will be dusted off before the end of the day.

Interesting how that was about sexual harrassment as well.

When all else fails, attack the witnessess and the people reviewing you as racists and class concerned bigots.

Sigh.

26 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:25:40am

re: #25 celticdragon

The "high tech lynching" quote from the Clarence Thomas hearings will be dusted off before the end of the day.

Interesting how that was about sexual harrassment as well.

When all else fails, attack the witnessess and the people reviewing you as racists and class concerned bigots.

Sigh.

He beat you to Clarence Thomas as well.

27 lawhawk  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:27:16am

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

Or someone who previously worked for the campaign and became disgruntled over his dealing with some issue or other. Note that the IA staff quit b/c Cain failed to make a serious push in that early battleground state. That might be further payback.

28 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:28:54am

re: #27 lawhawk

One makes an enemy or two in politics.

You never know if it's going to come from the opposition camp or your own.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:29:08am

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He beat you to Clarence Thomas as well.

We will be discussing Justice Thomas quite a bit in the next few days, I imagine.

30 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:29:55am

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

We will be discussing Justice Thomas quite a bit in the next few days, I imagine.

I never get tired of being tired of that.

31 celticdragon  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:30:45am

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He beat you to Clarence Thomas as well.

I can't say I am surprised. As Charles noted, this is their 'cover' for denying racism on the right, so they will milk that for every drop possible. Every question about the finance law problems as well as the harrassment claims will be pushed back with "Only bigots are asking that!!".

Also...

Watch for death threats against the POLITICO reporters who broke the story...if that hasn't already happened as well.

32 garhighway  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:30:55am

re: #30 wrenchwench

I never get tired of being tired of that.

Ginny forgives you.

33 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:32:37am

Well, my ignorance has been lifted about what became of CORE since 1968:

But CORE is better known among real civil rights groups for renting out its historic name to any corporation in need of a black front person. The group has taken money from the payday-lending industry, chemical giant (and original DDT manufacturer) Monsanto, and ExxonMobil. Last year, Mother Jones reported that oil and gas interests recruited Innis to serve as the lead plaintiff in a legal challenge to listing the polar bear as a threatened species.

34 celticdragon  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:32:47am

Gotta run. Happy Halloween, lizards!

35 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:33:13am

Cain: I was 'falsely accused' of sexual harassment

""I was falsely accused while I was at the National Restaurant Association, and I say falsely because it turned out after the investigation to be baseless"

NBC confirms one Cain accuser received cash settlement

NBC News has confirmed that one woman received a settlement from the National Restaurant Association after complaining about inappropriate sexual conduct by Herman Cain.

Yeah, lots of organizations offer settlements over baseless accusations, happens all the time.
/

36 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:35:13am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: I was 'falsely accused' of sexual harassment

NBC confirms one Cain accuser received cash settlement

Yeah, lots of organizations offer settlements over baseless accusations, happens all the time.
/

And the winner for creepiest headline:

Herman Cain Denies Sexual Harassment Allegation: ‘Bring Me The Accuser’

37 celticdragon  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:35:48am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: I was 'falsely accused' of sexual harassment

""I was falsely accused while I was at the National Restaurant Association, and I say falsely because it turned out after the investigation to be baseless"

NBC confirms one Cain accuser received cash settlement


Yeah, lots of organizations offer settlements over baseless accusations, happens all the time.
/

Depends on how much was offered. A lawyer writing at Sully's blog suggets that anything over 75,000 coming from a major trade group may be a sign that there was substance to the allegations.

Have a safe night and see you all later :)

38 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:36:10am

re: #36 wrenchwench

And the winner for creepiest headline:

Herman Cain Denies Sexual Harassment Allegation: ‘Bring Me The Accuser’

...but tell her not to speak to me unless spoken to.
/

39 allegro  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:36:37am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: I was 'falsely accused' of sexual harassment

"I was falsely accused while I was at the National Restaurant Association, and I say falsely because it turned out after the investigation to be baseless payoff and gag order it went away."

Closer to reality probably.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:36:53am

re: #32 garhighway

Ginny forgives you.

But will she call me at eight on a Saturday morning to forgive me?

41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:37:06am

I wish someone would sexually harass me. Fifty grand worth, please?

42 garhighway  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:37:17am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: I was 'falsely accused' of sexual harassment

""I was falsely accused while I was at the National Restaurant Association, and I say falsely because it turned out after the investigation to be baseless"

NBC confirms one Cain accuser received cash settlement

Yeah, lots of organizations offer settlements over baseless accusations, happens all the time.
/

Actually, they do. I work at a big company, and I know that we pay five figures on employment cases where we really don't think we did anything wrong, for a few of reasons:

1> the transaction costs
2> the fact that, while we may think we didn't do anything wrong, any time a case goes to a jury with a caption like "sally smith vs bigcorp", juries will lean towards Sally, and
3> the distraction of getting senior management deposed and such.

So we settle. We grit our teeth, but we settle.

43 HappyWarrior  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:37:40am

Cain looks more sleazy by the day. At first, I thought he was just a jerk.

44 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:38:02am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, lots of organizations offer settlements over baseless accusations, happens all the time.
/

Actually lots of organizations DO offer settlements even on merit less claims if the internal calculus shows that the defense costs would be high. Also, it has not been determined what the settlement was for.

But to me more serious is that the Cain campaign is showing rookie mistakes here. Don't they do their own research on their own candidate. Would have thought they would have had their response to this leaking out well planned in advance.

45 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:38:44am

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain: I was 'falsely accused' of sexual harassment

NBC confirms one Cain accuser received cash settlement

Yeah, lots of organizations offer settlements over baseless accusations, happens all the time.
/

That will, of course, be the argument. A woman can just say she was harassed, and they know the librul courts will believe her, so they settle to make it go away.

46 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:38:59am

re: #38 makeitstop

...but tell her not to speak to me unless spoken to.
/

"I thought Ms Braun was a supporter because she kept repeating my campaign slogan."

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:39:11am

re: #36 wrenchwench

And the winner for creepiest headline:

Herman Cain Denies Sexual Harassment Allegation: ‘Bring Me The Accuser’

Bring me the head of yon uppity wench!!

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:40:56am

re: #46 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"I thought Ms Braun was a supporter because she kept repeating my campaign slogan."

What did he think arschloch meant?

49 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:41:55am

re: #42 garhighway

Actually, they do. I work at a big company, and I know that we pay five figures on employment cases where we really don't think we did anything wrong, for a few of reasons:

1> the transaction costs
2> the fact that, while we may think we didn't do anything wrong, any time a case goes to a jury with a caption like "sally smith vs bigcorp", juries will lean towards Sally, and
3> the distraction of getting senior management deposed and such.

So we settle. We grit our teeth, but we settle.

I know of payoffs in cases where the accusations are questionable, but if as Cain is stating they're completely baseless, I would think they would have refused to pay out anything.

50 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:42:18am

re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist

Bring me the head of yon uppity wench!!

And since a non-disclosure agreement was part of the settlement, no matter how uppity the wench may be, she cannot come forward.

51 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:42:22am

re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wish someone would sexually harass me. Fifty grand worth, please?

Okay. Put on the special pants.

52 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:42:54am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

What did he think arschloch meant?

"Please, baby, I'm not from Havana!"

53 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:43:17am

Some of the comments on left wing blogs have the Karl Rove is responsible rumors going around. Is there anything Karl Rove can't do?

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:44:56am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

At least I've never heard anyone call him stupid...

10... 9... 8... 7...

55 Simply Sarah  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:45:11am

re: #42 garhighway

Actually, they do. I work at a big company, and I know that we pay five figures on employment cases where we really don't think we did anything wrong, for a few of reasons:

1> the transaction costs
2> the fact that, while we may think we didn't do anything wrong, any time a case goes to a jury with a caption like "sally smith vs bigcorp", juries will lean towards Sally, and
3> the distraction of getting senior management deposed and such.

So we settle. We grit our teeth, but we settle.

I'm mostly going to have to agree with this. While I know for a fact that there's a lot of unreported or unaddressed harassment in the workplace, I also understand how companies will sometimes just pay to make stuff go away, regardless of the validity of the claim.

As for Cain, I'm very interested to hear more information. Obviously, he wouldn't be the first big shot (Or, uh, guy) to think it was OK to harass women, but I don't want to throw my support behind the allegations until there's more to them. Knee jerk reacting to bogus claims just tend to make it harder to get people to take the legitimate claims of many women seriously. Or, at the least, it gives the bastards more excuses.

56 garhighway  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:45:31am

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know of payoffs in cases where the accusations are questionable, but if as Cain is stating they're completely baseless, I would think they would have refused to pay out anything.

A buck is a buck is a buck. Unless the case poses some sort of precedential value or has broader implications, you do whatever costs least. Five figure settlements are no windfall to a plaintiff. By the time they pay their lawyer, costs and taxes (since most or all of the money is characterized as wages), they don't get enough to be crowing about it. there have been cases where the plaintiff won an award but was a net loser because of the tax hit.

57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:45:58am

re: #51 Obdicut

Wait a minute. I think you were just trying to trick me into putting on pants!

58 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:46:49am

re: #57 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wait a minute. I think you were just trying to trick me into putting on pants!

All I can say on the topic of harassment is that her ass certainly meant a lot to me.

59 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:47:01am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

Some of the comments on left wing blogs have the Karl Rove is responsible rumors going around. Is there anything Karl Rove can't do?

It's as good a guess as any right now.

60 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:47:01am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

Some of the comments on left wing blogs have the Karl Rove is responsible rumors going around. Is there anything Karl Rove can't do?

It's really not unreasonable to think Rove might use this. It's not on the level of dickassery of his "McCain has an illegitimate black child" that he pulled before.

What can't Karl Rove do? I don't know. I do know that one thing he can do is negative political campaigining, which is what this is.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:47:21am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

Some of the comments on left wing blogs have the Karl Rove is responsible rumors going around. Is there anything Karl Rove can't do?

No. Karl Rove is the Chuck Norris of politics.

His evil and cunning defy description.

62 garhighway  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:47:22am

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

But will she call me at eight on a Saturday morning to forgive me?

I think that costs extra.

63 Obdicut  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:48:11am

re: #55 Simply Sarah

It is absolutely possible that Cain did nothing wrong whatsoever and that the settlements really were nuisance settlements, which do, indeed, happen all the time.

The campaign finance stuff is really a lot more important.

64 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:48:54am

re: #60 Obdicut

It's really not unreasonable to think Rove might use this. It's not on the level of dickassery of his "McCain has an illegitimate black child" that he pulled before.

What can't Karl Rove do? I don't know. I do know that one thing he can do is negative political campaigining, which is what this is.

Megan McCain is still pissed off about that, and unlike her parents, she's not too political to say so.

65 garhighway  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:50:23am

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

No. Karl Rove is the Chuck Norris of politics.

His evil and cunning defy description.

My favorite Karl Rove story:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

sample:

WASHINGTON—Longtime political adviser and Republican strategist Karl Rove announced Aug. 13 that he would step down from his role as White House deputy chief of staff to spend more time in the shadows and devote his energy to the things he really cares about, such as creeping, slithering, and disappearing for all time into an ever-darkening realm shut off from hope and goodness.

"I've been away from the shadows too long, and it's put a strain on my relationship with those black forces I hold dear," an emotional but upbeat Rove said. "There are many personal projects I'd like to pursue all alone in an opaque void, where God Himself dares not peer, so this just seemed like the perfect opportunity to slink off into murky blackness."

Rove, who planned to return at the stroke of midnight Aug. 31 to the mysterious underworld from which he emerged two decades ago to do the bidding of masters unknown, claimed he never felt comfortable operating within the visible light spectrum. The often-controversial figure said he was looking forward to "getting away from it all" and prowling like a wolf on the wind in that ashen realm where deeds unthinkable know no name or order.

66 Kragar  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:52:17am

re: #63 Obdicut

It is absolutely possible that Cain did nothing wrong whatsoever and that the settlements really were nuisance settlements, which do, indeed, happen all the time.

The campaign finance stuff is really a lot more important.

I'm still trying to find out which charity is getting the money from his books that his campaign is buying.

67 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:52:47am

re: #55 Simply Sarah

but I don't want to throw my support behind the allegations until there's more to them. Knee jerk reacting to bogus claims just tend to make it harder to get people to take the legitimate claims of many women seriously.

well said and we all around here tsk tsk and roll our eyes over every wild ass claim made toward President Obama and maybe we should give candidate Cain the same courtesy.

68 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:54:23am

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

No. Karl Rove is the Chuck Norris of politics.

His evil and cunning defy description.

That why he's called You Magnificent Bastard™!

69 Alexzander  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:54:53am

What I've heard is that this is likely the research of the Romney campaign - it was pretty clearly set up to drop this week while Cain is doing more media than usual. It also shows that various establishment powers are finally getting a little anxious about Cain's persistence at the top of the Iowa polls. He was never meant to be a serious candidate.

Not that these allegations aren't true.

70 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:55:27am

re: #66 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm still trying to find out which charity is getting the money from his books that his campaign is buying.

Is the US State Dept a "charity"

Maybe they're doing both!!!

[Link: security.blogs.cnn.com...]
///

71 Simply Sarah  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:55:41am

re: #63 Obdicut

It is absolutely possible that Cain did nothing wrong whatsoever and that the settlements really were nuisance settlements, which do, indeed, happen all the time.

The campaign finance stuff is really a lot more important.

Well, if the harassment claims actual pan out, those are extremely bothersome to me, as well. Right now, though, the campaign finance stuff does seem to have stronger public evidence. Overall, though, all these things seems to indicate that this is a man with a lot of skeletons in his closet that appear to me more than mere personal failings.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:56:24am

re: #67 Big Steve

well said and we all around here tsk tsk and roll our eyes over every wild ass claim made toward President Obama and maybe we should give candidate Cain the same courtesy.

This seems slightly more structured and realistic than most claims made against Obama, but your point is taken. We don't know.

(One thing I really like about Barack Obama--if he were sleeping around, or had any financial malfeasance in his closet, I'm pretty sure I would know about it, given how diligently how many people have worked to defame him for several years now.)

73 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 10:57:30am

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

Some of the comments on left wing blogs have the Karl Rove is responsible rumors going around. Is there anything Karl Rove can't do?

I suspect that Papa John is really to blame.
/

74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:00:10am

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

Type "Obama" into the search line on Snopes.com when you have one or two hundred hours to spare.

75 allegro  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:00:11am

I think Cain has already served his intended purpose by being "seriously" [koff] considered as a legitimate GOP candidate for President. A black man. They really were serious, yanno, but darn it all anyways, lookee at these unfortunate skeletons he has back there. Aren't we surprised and dismayed! Guess it will have to be the white guy after all. NOT because we're racists of course, we proved that.

//

76 Gus  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:00:30am

Talking Points Memo
@TPM Talking Points Memo
Cain singing 'Amazing Grace' right now at the National Press Club.

77 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:01:10am

re: #76 Gus 802

Talking Points Memo
@TPM Talking Points Memo
Cain singing 'Amazing Grace' right now at the National Press Club.

Don't laugh

he does have great pipes

78 Gus  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:02:18am

re: #77 sattv4u2

Don't laugh

he does have great pipes

Uh huh. That's some real presidential material right there.

Drink!

79 Simply Sarah  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:02:42am

re: #67 Big Steve

well said and we all around here tsk tsk and roll our eyes over every wild ass claim made toward President Obama and maybe we should give candidate Cain the same courtesy.

Not going to jump on him yet. Have plenty of other reasons to dislike the guy already.

However, I reserve the right to tear him a new one should strong evidence come out to back the claims. Not going to stand for another Anita Hill situation, where the only person who got lynched was a woman brave enough to speak out.

80 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:02:43am

re: #76 Gus 802

Talking Points Memo
@TPM Talking Points Memo
Cain singing 'Amazing Grace' right now at the National Press Club.

I don't have a problem with that.

81 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:03:00am

re: #78 Gus 802

Uh huh. That's some real presidential material right there.

Drink!

Maybe Clinton could play sax for him!

82 sattv4u2  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:03:21am

re: #78 Gus 802

re: #81 sattv4u2

Maybe Clinton could play sax for him!

DRINK!!

83 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:03:59am

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

This seems slightly more structured and realistic than most claims made against Obama, but your point is taken. We don't know.

(One thing I really like about Barack Obama--if he were sleeping around, or had any financial malfeasance in his closet, I'm pretty sure I would know about it, given how diligently how many people have worked to defame him for several years now.)

You are underestimating on how sneaking some of us guys can be.....look how long John Edwards got away with it!

84 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:05:58am

DKos: Uncle Herman (Tom) Cain

To give the Koskids credit, they blasted the person who posted this diary.

85 Simply Sarah  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:06:04am

re: #83 Big Steve

You are underestimating on how sneaking some of us guys can be...look how long John Edwards got away with it!

Ugh. I had almost forgotten about that pathetic excuse for a human. Fucking disgusting and duplicitous bastard.

86 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:06:33am

I was thinking along the same lines of Michael Smerconish, in that if Cain was the head of the restaurant association, he would have known about a settlement.

87 Gus  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:07:24am

Bread and circuses.

88 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:07:30am

re: #79 Simply Sarah

Not going to jump on him yet. Have plenty of other reasons to dislike the guy already.

However, I reserve the right to tear him a new one should strong evidence come out to back the claims. Not going to stand for another Anita Hill situation, where the only person who got lynched was a woman brave enough to speak out.

Does this count as "strong evidence"?

...On the details of Cain’s allegedly inappropriate behavior with the two women, POLITICO has a half-dozen sources shedding light on different aspects of the complaints.

The sources — including the recollections of close associates and other documentation — describe episodes that left the women upset and offended. These incidents include conversations allegedly filled with innuendo or personal questions of a sexually suggestive nature, taking place at hotels during conferences, at other officially sanctioned restaurant association events and at the association’s offices. There were also descriptions of physical gestures that were not overtly sexual but that made women who experienced or witnessed them uncomfortable and that they regarded as improper in a professional relationship.

[...]

But one source closely familiar with Cain’s tenure in Washington confirmed that the claims related to allegations of sexual harassment — behavior that disturbed members of the board who became aware of it, as well as the source, who otherwise liked Cain.

“I happen to know there were sealed settlements reached in the plural. I think that anybody who thinks this was a one-time, one-person transgression would be mistaken,” this source said.

The first woman was identified to POLITICO by a former association board member, and her identity was confirmed by two additional sources.

The former board member recalled learning of the woman’s departure at a 1999 association board meeting and trade expo in Chicago.

“She was offered a financial package to leave the association, and she did,” said the former board member. “What I took offense at was that it was clear that rather than deal with the issue, there was an effort to hush it up. She was offered a way out to keep quiet.”

A second source with close ties to the restaurant association from that period said the woman revealed at the time that she had suffered what the source described as “an unwanted sexual advance” from Cain at a hotel where an event involving the group was taking place.

A third source said the woman has indicated to her current employer that she received a compensation package from the association and has warned the employer that she might be the subject of an embarrassing story involving a presidential candidate.

The second woman’s identity was confirmed by a source familiar with the association.

[...]

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:09:41am

re: #80 NJDhockeyfan

I don't have a problem with that.

I encourage Herman Cain in his artistic endeavors.

His political ones, not so much.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:11:24am

re: #83 Big Steve

You are underestimating on how sneaking some of us guys can be...look how long John Edwards got away with it!

I don't think Edwards had non-politicians spending their personal fortunes on tracking down his dirt, though.

Ah, maybe. Maybe it will turn out that Obama has been shtupping co-eds while the Nirthers were examining the layers in the PDF of his birth certificate.

I doubt it, but I guess it could happen.

91 Simply Sarah  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:12:22am

re: #88 wrenchwench

Does this count as "strong evidence"?

Well, I'd like a little more to go on, and maybe the names of some of the people that observed it (Although I understand how personally and professionally dangerous coming out against Cain on this could be), but yeah, that sorta moves me close to being comfortable condemning him. I admit I haven't had a chance to look into this much, since I only got around to hearing about it this morning and what I'd heard then was kinda vague.

I certainly think it's probably much more likely than not that these allegations are true, knowing how culture still treats anyone that isn't a rich white guy.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:13:21am

re: #85 Simply Sarah

Ugh. I had almost forgotten about that pathetic excuse for a human. Fucking disgusting and duplicitous bastard.

One thing about the Edwards scandal--no one defended him. There was no partisan scramble to justify. Even the progressive Democrats who'd really liked him went "Ick. How could he? Scum," and backed away.

Because yes, it was just that classy.

93 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:15:08am

No surprise the corruption is located in Wisconsin. Look at our governor.

94 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:15:16am

re: #91 Simply Sarah

Well, I'd like a little more to go on, and maybe the names of some of the people that observed it (Although I understand how personally and professionally dangerous coming out against Cain on this could be), but yeah, that sorta moves me close to being comfortable condemning him. I admit I haven't had a chance to look into this much, since I only got around to hearing about it this morning and what I'd heard then was kinda vague.

I certainly think it's probably much more likely than not that these allegations are true, knowing how culture still treats anyone that isn't a rich white guy.

It's good to reserve judgement, especially when none of us know the guy personally. At least the women involved in this case aren't twisting in the public wind like Anita Hill.

95 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:18:05am

Whatever the case, he no longer amuses me. Time for him to go away.
More importantly, Kim Kardashian has filed for divorce. :-0
//

96 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:18:29am

re: #93 Amory Blaine

No surprise the corruption is located in Wisconsin. Look at our governor.

Wisconsin seems to be the source of lots of wingnuttery, at least since the John Birchers moved there.

(I was born there too. That's neither here nor there...)

97 Big Steve  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:19:37am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

One thing about the Edwards scandal--no one defended him. There was no partisan scramble to justify. Even the progressive Democrats who'd really liked him went "Ick. How could he? Scum," and backed away.

Because yes, it was just that classy.

Well no one is defending Cain right now except his own campaign. On Edwards his campaign fought hard against the charged included a staffer who agreed to be the "father."

98 Simply Sarah  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:19:53am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

One thing about the Edwards scandal--no one defended him. There was no partisan scramble to justify. Even the progressive Democrats who'd really liked him went "Ick. How could he? Scum," and backed away.

Because yes, it was just that classy.

I suppose it's possible things would have been different if he had still been seen as important in politics/held office. I mean, sure his situation was utterly outrageous and despicable, but people seemed OK enough with Strom Thurmond to keep electing him (Yes, I know complimenting him wasn't given the same type of pass). I sort of wonder if it would have been looked at the same way if he and Elizabeth had been black.

99 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:20:38am

Wow. Reading the source article for the campaign finance allegations now.

Everybody from the Koch Brothers to Breitbart and Krista Branch are mentioned in the story. The TGOP is one incestuous little group, aren't they?

100 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:20:58am

re: #95 OhNoZombies!

Whatever the case, he no longer amuses me. Time for him to go away.
More importantly, Kim Kardashian has filed for divorse. :-0
//

I still have no idea who Kim Kardashian is other than she has some show in TV .

101 iossarian  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:22:45am

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think Edwards had non-politicians spending their personal fortunes on tracking down his dirt, though.

Ah, maybe. Maybe it will turn out that Obama has been shtupping co-eds while the Nirthers were examining the layers in the PDF of his birth certificate.

I doubt it, but I guess it could happen.

Upding for "shtupping co-eds".

102 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:23:12am

re: #95 OhNoZombies!

Whatever the case, he no longer amuses me. Time for him to go away.
More importantly, Kim Kardashian has filed for divorse. :-0
//

Yeah, it looks like Kris Humphries' bottom line is going to be adversely affected once the NBA finally gets around to canceling the entire season.

I wonder how soon the other one is going to file divorce papers against Lamar Odom.
/

103 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:28:37am

re: #100 NJDhockeyfan

I still have no idea who Kim Kardashian is other than she has some show in TV .

Anyone even subtly mentions her, any of her clan, instant demerits in my house.

104 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:30:25am

re: #102 makeitstop

Lol, probably not soon enough!

105 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:33:44am

re: #100 NJDhockeyfan

Her dad was friends with OJ, and her mom is married to Bruce Jenner, and she had butt enlargement surgery.
Other than that, consider yourself lucky. Your not missing anything.

106 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:35:16am

re: #105 OhNoZombies!

Her dad was friends with OJ, and her mom is married to Bruce Jenner, and she had butt enlargement surgery.
Other than that, consider yourself lucky. Your not missing anything.

Other than having semi-celebrity parents, what has she done to deserve her own TV show?

107 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:36:44am

re: #106 NJDhockeyfan

Other than having semi-celebrity parents, what has she done to deserve her own TV show?

That's not enough?
//

108 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:36:48am

re: #106 NJDhockeyfan

Other than having semi-celebrity parents, what has she done to deserve her own TV show?

Same thing other coddled rich people have done. Absolutely nothing.

109 wrenchwench  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:37:02am

re: #99 makeitstop

Wow. Reading the source article for the campaign finance allegations now.

Everybody from the Koch Brothers to Breitbart and Krista Branch are mentioned in the story. The TGOP is one incestuous little group, aren't they?

It's a heck of an article.

110 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:38:30am

Daniel Bice is a jewel in the sewer that has become the Milwaukee Journal.

111 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:42:27am

re: #106 NJDhockeyfan

Sex tape.

112 makeitstop  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:42:33am

Protestors interrupt Cantor speech in Michigan

Looks like nobody's having a good Monday in Republican-land.

113 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Oct 31, 2011 11:51:00am

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