Yet Another Woman Accuses Herman Cain Of Sexual Harassment

The floodgates open, and in swims Gloria Allred
Politics • Views: 23,143

You knew it was just a matter of time until … Gloria Allred.

A new woman alleging sexual harassment by presidential hopeful Herman Cain will break her silence at a news conference with her powerhouse attorney Gloria Allred Monday afternoon in New York City, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.

The embattled GOP nominee has admitted that several women who worked at the National Restaurant Association during his tenure as president of the organization received settlements. Politico has reported that the settlements were given because of sexual harassment allegations.

The woman, who will be the first to go public on Monday, sought Cain’s help with an employment issue and was allegedly sexually harassed by him. Allred and her client will discuss, in detail, what she alleges occurred with Cain.

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152 comments
1 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:18:09am

Chance of this story going away anytime soon just reached about zero.

2 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:18:13am

If I were that woman I would hire anyone BUT Gloria Allred. I have to say.

3 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:18:20am

My point is as follows: If, in the three years he was at the NRA, 4 women were sexually harassed, there are more.

We just now know about how many there are. Around one a year.

4 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:18:49am

Of course, the right wing blogs have already declared this whole thing a fraud, and the women accusing Cain are just "rent seekers" to use Robert Stacy McCain's lovely little misogynistic term.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:19:11am

I have a question. Are there any stats on sexual harassment claims against CEOs?

6 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:21:34am

re: #3 EmmmieG

My point is as follows: If, in the three years he was at the NRA, 4 women were sexually harassed, there are more.

We just now know about how many there are. Around one a year.

Somebody quoted the statistics the other day, but the depressing reality is that the majority of workplace sexual harassment goes unreported. The one woman who actually filed a report against Cain and received a settlement stated, even with the NRA waiving the confidentiality portion of the agreement, she doesn't want to revisit what actually happened. So it doesn't surprise me that these women are coming forward one by one, as most are likely afraid of the public response, particularly that of Cain's supporters.

7 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:24:02am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

I have a question. Are there any stats on sexual harassment claims against CEOs?

I doubt it. There are stats on how many women feel they have experienced sexual harassment at work. But if a woman reports sexual harassment internally, and doesn't fire a lawsuit, it may never become public and so the statistics are unlikely to be available for actual claims made.

8 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:28:57am

A repost from downstairs:

If Gloria Allred is involved, it will help Cain in the short term because she's abrasive and obnoxious and will play right into the "feminazi out to make a buck" talking points that exist on the right.

That said, it also hurts both Cain and the GOP in the long term. If this circus leads to sympathy and votes for Cain, and he ends up the nominee because of it, the GOP will find themselves in serious trouble during the general election.

9 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:29:57am

re: #7 Obdicut

I doubt it. There are stats on how many women feel they have experienced sexual harassment at work. But if a woman reports sexual harassment internally, and doesn't fire a lawsuit, it may never become public and so the statistics are unlikely to be available for actual claims made.

I have never been sexually harassed at work, but I did once work at a place where two supervisors made "Jew jokes" at my expense. I filed a complaint, but rather than follow through I found another job.

10 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:30:34am

Gloria Allred is the best news Herman Cain could ask for. She is the Nancy Grace of celebrity attorneys. This circus just turned in to a full on clusterfuck of stupidity.

11 neilk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:31:00am

Gloria Allred's bad reputation mostly comes from the twin hatreds of lawyers and sexual harassment complainants. She has a pretty good batting average, though, and TBH her presence seems to mute the complaint of "why didn't you mention this before he was running for office?" This is not good for Cain, although it may get him more support in the short run.

12 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:31:15am

re: #10 darthstar

Gloria Allred is the best news Herman Cain could ask for. She is the Nancy Grace of celebrity attorneys. This circus just turned in to a full on clusterfuck of stupidity.

So it fits right into the GOP then.
/

13 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:32:55am

re: #4 Charles

Of course, the right wing blogs have already declared this whole thing a fraud, and the women accusing Cain are just "rent seekers" to use Robert Stacy McCain's lovely little misogynistic term.

I'd actually be shocked if the right wing blogs came out uniformly against Cain in light of these accusations. They're likely waiting for some sign that his campaign truly has been torpedoed before jumping like rats from a sinking ship.

14 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:33:34am

re: #9 Alouette

I saw a metric fuckton of sexual harassment at EA. Everything from 'normal' sexual harassment of women by commenting on their appearance, to guys talking about the female coworkers they'd had sex with, to the taunting of gay and disabled employees. I 'reported' some of it internally and small things were done, but there were systemic problems. Looking back, I should have-- and many other people should have-- filed lawsuits.

Hell, one fucking programmer included a web address as a graphic on some random crate texture. One of my testers followed it, and it went to that programmer's personal website-- which was a collection of links about sex tourism to countries with low age of consent laws. It really fucked with the tester's head; he was a sheltered dude who'd never even encountered such shit before. That programmer wasn't even reprimanded, and the tester who found it got let go in the next wave of layoffs.

15 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:33:51am

re: #1 Obdicut

Chance of this story going away anytime soon just reached about zero.

And the campaign is defeated. Might not look like it yet but it's dead on it's feet. Just has not had time to fall yet.

16 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:34:04am

Allred's going to keep the media frenzy going with a volume past 11, but let's not forget key issues here.

There's not one, but four separate women who claim that Cain engaged in harassment of one form or another. At least one woman got a settlement (and refused to comment further because she didn't want to revisit the sorry episode - although the NDA was waived and the NRA says that such a settlement was reached).

This goes to his character and judgment. His behavior towards women in these accusations is awful and should keep him from elected office.

But, on top of these accusations, there's the not insignificant matter of the IRS and FEC investigating Prosperity USA and how they set up his campaign - including whether they improperly made payments to the campaign and that the non-profit was violating IRC laws in its payments.

In a written complaint being filed today, the Center for Media and Democracy -- a Madison, Wisconsin based watchdog group -- charges that leaked financial records show that Block used a non profit group, called Prosperity USA, to improperly pay Cain campaign expenses. If verified, the group says Prosperity USA – which was founded by Cain’s chief of staff Mark Block -- should be stripped of its tax exempt status.

“A charity founded by Mr. Block appears to have fronted tens of thousands of dollars to a political campaign that was led by Mr. Block … This requires an investigation by the IRS into the charity’s activities and expenditures,” said Lisa Graves, the executive director of the Media and Democracy Group in an eleven page letter to IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman.

The Cain campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment Monday morning. The campaign’s lawyer last week told NBC News that the Cain campaign takes the allegations “very seriously” and had hired an outside counsel to review the issue ... The Center for Media and Democracy’s letter is the second legal complaint in four days triggered by the publication of Prosperity USA internal financial records by a blogger, Dan Bice, who writes for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. The IRS will investigate such complaints, but the probes – which can result in fines and a denial of tax exempt status – can often take years before they are resolved. (On Friday, the Citizens for Ethics and Responsibility filed a complaint alleging election law violations with the Federal Election Commission.)

The FEC issues are bad enough, but the IRS issues could kill his campaign and it goes to the core of his campaign at its genesis.

17 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:34:39am

re: #11 neilk

Yep. Her noticeable high-profile failures include a woman accusing Schwarzenegger of harassment, but even though it failed it's been pretty clear that Schwarzenegger used to be an old-fashioned asshole when it came to treatment of women.

18 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:35:28am

Oh, and while I have no doubt that Allred tries to do right by her clients, I wonder whether her presence will cause yet more of a rally-around-Cain effect than we've seen to date.

He'll take it as a badge of honor - and press on as though he's as right as rain.

19 Sionainn  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:35:45am

I was sexually harassed at work back when I was 21. Since I gave him the cold shoulder and let him know his advances were unwelcome, he kept me from moving up in the company to a job I was highly qualified for. I didn't file a formal complaint, but HR knew what he did. When the government came along investigating the company for not hiring women for certain positions, HR made sure they interviewed me. The company got in big trouble for their actions...so in a roundabout way, I got them back.

20 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:35:50am

re: #15 Rightwingconspirator

And the campaign is defeated. Might not look like it yet but it's dead on it's feet. Just has not had time to fall yet.

The establishment has gotta be shaking and shivering right now. Cain's campaign took a hit that has sunk far more formidable campaigns and is staying afloat, the base absolutely refusing to abandon him. This does not bode well for the general election.

21 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:36:44am

re: #20 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The establishment has gotta be shaking and shivering right now. Cain's campaign took a hit that has sunk far more formidable campaigns and is staying afloat, the base absolutely refusing to abandon him. This does not bode well for the general election.

Just give it a little more time.
It bodes well for Obama methinks. As it should.

22 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:37:32am

re: #20 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The establishment has gotta be shaking and shivering right now. Cain's campaign took a hit that has sunk far more formidable campaigns and is staying afloat, the base absolutely refusing to abandon him. This does not bode well for the general election.

Seriously. If Cain survives all this and makes it to the primaries, the GOP is in big trouble. If hell freezes and he gets the nod? They're fucked in the general, full stop.

23 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:37:34am

re: #16 lawhawk

I know it's pie in the sky, but is there any chance of the Koch's or their organizations being touched by the fraud?

24 recusancy  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:38:14am

re: #17 Obdicut

Yep. Her noticeable high-profile failures include a woman accusing Schwarzenegger of harassment, but even though it failed it's been pretty clear that Schwarzenegger used to be an old-fashioned asshole when it came to treatment of women.

I'm fairly certain he still is an old fashioned asshole when it comes to women.

25 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:38:14am

re: #21 Rightwingconspirator

Just give it a little more time.
It bodes well for Obama methinks. As it should.

Oh, it certainly does. If this scandal actually keeps Cain's favorables high enough with the base to make the nomination a contested one or, in an impossible scenario, give him the nomination, then the GOP is well and truly fraked.

26 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:39:04am

re: #19 Sionainn

I was sexually harassed at work back when I was 21. Since I gave him the cold shoulder and let him know his advances were unwelcome, he kept me from moving up in the company to a job I was highly qualified for. I didn't file a formal complaint, but HR knew what he did. When the government came along investing the company for not hiring women for certain positions, HR made sure they interviewed me. The company got in big trouble for their actions...so in a roundabout way, I got them back.

I wonder whether Cain's record at NAR has anything to do with the fact that the current chair, vice chair, and CEO/President are all women now.

27 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:40:44am

Hey all,

Clinton's philandering didn't hurt him at all during the election.

Why should it hurt Cain?

just sayin'

sup?

28 iossarian  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:41:03am

re: #14 Obdicut

I saw a metric fuckton of sexual harassment at EA. Everything from 'normal' sexual harassment of women by commenting on their appearance, to guys talking about the female coworkers they'd had sex with, to the taunting of gay and disabled employees. I 'reported' some of it internally and small things were done, but there were systemic problems. Looking back, I should have-- and many other people should have-- filed lawsuits.

Hell, one fucking programmer included a web address as a graphic on some random crate texture. One of my testers followed it, and it went to that programmer's personal website-- which was a collection of links about sex tourism to countries with low age of consent laws. It really fucked with the tester's head; he was a sheltered dude who'd never even encountered such shit before. That programmer wasn't even reprimanded, and the tester who found it got let go in the next wave of layoffs.

Yay US employee protection laws!

29 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:41:13am

Not the GOP cares, after all "sexual harassment in the work place" is just another liberal agenda made up to emasculate and demean the White Males who are the only real "Producers" in this nations economy!

(My God, the Ayn Rand/Rush Limbaugh convergence has begun, be afraid, be very afraid!)

30 neilk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:42:01am

re: #27 ggt

For one thing, Clinton didn't buy anybody's silence. Men who don't have to pay for it universally get more respect.

31 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:42:29am

re: #27 ggt

Hey all,

Clinton's philandering didn't hurt him at all during the election.

Why should it hurt Cain?

just sayin'

sup?

Yeah all the wingnuts are saying "...but, but, but...

PAULA JONES!1!"

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:42:38am

re: #27 ggt

Hey all,

Clinton's philandering didn't hurt him at all during the election.

Why should it hurt Cain?

just sayin'

sup?

There's a difference between philandering (which I disapprove of) and harassing people.

33 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:42:46am

This just keeps getting worse for Cain.

My only worry with Allred involved is that she will grab so much attention, the FEC and IRA issues are neglected.

34 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:43:40am

re: #32 EmmmieG

Cain wishes he was Clinton.

35 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:43:46am

re: #28 iossarian

Yay US employee protection laws!

Well, companies do a lot to make you think you have to use their internal systems for complaints. It's not true, and in my opinion the best thing for anyone being sexually harassed is to sue or complain to the labor board, not to attempt to use employee mediation programs unless they really, really, really feel like they trust the people who they will be talking to.

36 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:43:51am

re: #2 SanFranciscoZionist

If I were that woman I would hire anyone BUT Gloria Allred. I have to say.

I have to disagree with this.

When it comes to cases involving sexual harassment, and women's rights overall, she's probably one of the most well-known attorneys out there, and there is a good reason for this - her track record speaks for itself in the number of cases she's won.

Given a choice, who would you rather have as an advocate if you were a woman in this kind of situation where there is going to be a media frenzy?

37 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:45:15am

I still don't see it being an obstacle within the GOP.

Good Ole' Boys club and all .. . . .

38 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:46:05am

re: #35 Obdicut

Well, companies do a lot to make you think you have to use their internal systems for complaints. It's not true, and in my opinion the best thing for anyone being sexually harassed is to sue or complain to the labor board, not to attempt to use employee mediation programs unless they really, really, really feel like they trust the people who they will be talking to.

I agree. I don't trust Human Resources to look out for my rights in any situation. They work for the company.

39 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:46:34am

Hiring Gloria Allred was probably the best idea, preventing this story from simply being shuffled off into the background noise as we move into the holidays. The more visibility, the more media attention, the more likely that others will come forward.

40 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:47:02am

re: #25 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Oh, it certainly does. If this scandal actually keeps Cain's favorables high enough with the base to make the nomination a contested one or, in an impossible scenario, give him the nomination, then the GOP is well and truly fraked.

They are brawling about Cain at Redstate. Well, they are brawling over just about every candidate. Guess who they are re-warming up too ~ Newt!

41 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:47:06am

re: #33 ProLifeLiberal

This just keeps getting worse for Cain.

My only worry with Allred involved is that she will grab so much attention, the FEC and IRA issues are neglected.

She's not that kind of powerful talisman. Too much is being made of her potential personal effect on Cain's situation.

42 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:47:46am

re: #36 RadicalModerate

A barracuda in a red suit.

43 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:50:05am

re: #41 wrenchwench

She's not that kind of powerful talisman. Too much is being made of her potential personal effect on Cain's situation.

She'll keep the media on the story, because that's what she's good at. She'll also keep the wingnuts so focused on her and on these issues that they will ignore the FEC and IRS issues entirely.

If those FEC and IRS issues end up being substantive? Expect the wingnut base to call them a high-tech lynching and a liberal conspiracy. They'll only circle the wagons more.

44 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:50:40am

re: #23 Obdicut

The IRC has its own fraud provisions. Not only do you have to read through IRC 501, but sections 502, 503 and 504 for prohibited transactions, and possible penalties. IRC 504 governs such cases such as when a nonprofit engages in political activities contra law for nonprofits.

IRC 6663 would be the fraud provision - underpayment of tax required to be shown on a return due to fraud - a 75% penalty of the tax that would have been owed.

That's a separate discussion of criminal fraud, which is possible, but remote at this time.

And that doesn't even get into the area of sham transactions and corporations set up to avoid tax.

It's sure to create headaches for the Prosperity USA folks, definitely for Cain's campaign (and manager), and potentially for the Koch Industries.

45 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:50:40am

re: #40 prairiefire

They are brawling about Cain at Redstate. Well, they are brawling over just about every candidate. Guess who they are re-warming up too ~ Newt!

Yeah, I've heard that Newt is getting another look in light of Cain's current distress. But his problems are not only worse than Cain's, they're a matter of public record. The man's a walking cancer, which is why the GOP ultimately booted his ass.

46 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:51:00am

re: #37 ggt

I still don't see it being an obstacle within the GOP.

Good Ole' Boys club and all .. . . .

They thought they would blunt the cries of "raaacist!", but they only sharpened the cries of "sexist!"

47 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:51:31am

When will Herman learn..."Nein! Nein! Nein!" means No.

48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:51:41am

re: #14 Obdicut

I've experienced my share of gender, race and (perceived) sexuality harassment...came very close to filing in one case but ended up "filing" by transferring to another job. Dot bomb casualty, anyway, and the crap occurred in the middle of some really heinous company-wide crap the guy (C-level exec) was trying to pull. Big mess he got himself into, anyway.

Sometimes one can give the bigots a taste of their own misery, like the dudes who think it's cute/funny to put so-called "interracial" porn up on a LAN room monitor as a screen saver or desktop pic.

Lol a bit of retaliatory super-nasty leather daddy porn stopped that activity in its tracks.

49 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:52:27am

re: #43 Lidane

She'll keep the media on the story, because that's what she's good at. She'll also keep the wingnuts so focused on her and on these issues that they will ignore the FEC and IRS issues entirely.

If those FEC and IRS issues end up being substantive? Expect the wingnut base to call them a high-tech lynching and a liberal conspiracy. They'll only circle the wagons more.

Pretty soon those tightly circled wagons become a circular firing squad.

50 mikec6666  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:53:00am

I called this. Check it suckas!

re: #35 mikec6666

He'll eventually say that the women were extorting the restaurant association for money, after which they will come out, with Gloria Allred representing them. The whole fu@#ing mess will turn into a tabloid goat screw. He'll go up in the polls, and Romney will be toast. Liberals will get blamed and Politico will end up moving their coverage farther to the right in order to mollify their critics.

Left out of the whole incident will be any discussion of any of his positions which are by any reasonable standard, crazy bad.

51 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:53:15am

re: #48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I've experienced my share of gender, race and (perceived) sexuality harassment...came very close to filing in one case but ended up "filing" by transferring to another job. Dot bomb casualty, anyway, and the crap occurred in the middle of some really heinous company-wide crap the guy (C-level exec) was trying to pull. Big mess he got himself into, anyway.

Sometimes one can give the bigots a taste of their own misery, like the dudes who think it's cute/funny to put so-called "interracial" porn up on a LAN room monitor as a screen saver or desktop pic.

Lol a bit of retaliatory super-nasty leather daddy porn stopped that activity in its tracks.

It's sometimes good to work for a "Big 5" company because they have zero tolerance for that shit.

52 Lidane  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:53:19am

re: #46 wrenchwench

They thought they would blunt the cries of "raaacist!", but they only sharpened the cries of "sexist!"

Everyone knows that sexism and sexual harassment don't exist. They're just made up by bitter, ugly feminazis who can't take a compliment from a man.

Why do you hate America?

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:53:52am

re: #18 lawhawk

Oh, and while I have no doubt that Allred tries to do right by her clients, I wonder whether her presence will cause yet more of a rally-around-Cain effect than we've seen to date.

He'll take it as a badge of honor - and press on as though he's as right as rain.

It plays right into the image they're trying to create, that these are ball-busting, attention-seeking women with a 'liberal feminist' agenda.

Is that fair? No. But a good lawyer who wasn't Allred might have saved us some of the more high-pitched posturing.

54 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:56:10am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

It plays right into the image they're trying to create, that these are ball-busting, attention-seeking women with a 'liberal feminist' agenda.

Is that fair? No. But a good lawyer who wasn't Allred might have saved us some of the more high-pitched posturing.

Bah. Let them posture. The harder it'll be for them to go in reverse once this fully blows up to a point where denial is no longer possible.

55 RadicalModerate  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:57:30am

re: #27 ggt

Hey all,

Clinton's philandering didn't hurt him at all during the election.

Why should it hurt Cain?

just sayin'

sup?

Last time I checked, none of Cain's accusers had groups like the rightwing Rutherford Instutute, or individuals like Richard Mellon Scaife bankrolling a campaign of deceit, conspiracy-mongering and defamation like happened in President Clinton's case.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:58:21am

re: #36 RadicalModerate

I have to disagree with this.

When it comes to cases involving sexual harassment, and women's rights overall, she's probably one of the most well-known attorneys out there, and there is a good reason for this - her track record speaks for itself in the number of cases she's won.

Given a choice, who would you rather have as an advocate if you were a woman in this kind of situation where there is going to be a media frenzy?

Someone with a good track record who's less high profile, and less easily pigeon-holed.

57 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 9:59:26am

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

It plays right into the image they're trying to create, that these are ball-busting, attention-seeking women with a 'liberal feminist' agenda.

Is that fair? No. But a good lawyer who wasn't Allred might have saved us some of the more high-pitched posturing.

Nothing was going to save the posturing, perhaps make it less obvious. The Right does themselves no favors by screaming "Bullshit!" with every new revelation in this story and accusing these women of being money-grubbing liars, so giving them a more visible target will just allow independents a chance to get a deeper whiff of the Right's misogyny in full bloom.

58 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:00:02am

Half an hour until Allred's press conference on it.

59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:00:11am

re: #51 Alouette

It's sometimes good to work for a "Big 5" company because they have zero tolerance for that shit.

For the petty 2nd grade level screensaver crap, definitely. And who has time, anyway?

60 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:00:31am

re: #24 recusancy

I'm fairly certain he still is an old fashioned asshole when it comes to women.

I feel really terrible for having liked him once. I was, somehow, naively ignorant of his deep misogyny and even after hearing a few stories, I let myself accept the ridiculous idea that it was all behind him. I've become a lot less blindly trusting since then.

61 Sionainn  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:01:21am

re: #58 Obdicut

Half an hour until Allred's press conference on it.

Any idea where it's going to be shown?

62 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:01:40am

re: #54 Simply Sarah

Bah. Let them posture. The harder it'll be for them to go in reverse once this fully blows up to a point where denial is no longer possible.

That's how I feel. They're going to show exactly what/who they are, anyway, so might as well get the best advocate AND give them a shiny object, on top of it.

63 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:03:01am

The GOP , as it currently is, is only going to view Cain and a Healthy Red-Blooded American Male who says things women sometimes don't like. There is no evidence he every tried to force himself on a women or use his position to gain an advantage.

They will *snicker* and give him a pass.

64 KingKenrod  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:03:38am

re: #4 Charles

Of course, the right wing blogs have already declared this whole thing a fraud, and the women accusing Cain are just "rent seekers" to use Robert Stacy McCain's lovely little misogynistic term.

It's not McCain's term, it's a post-Great Depression economics term.

65 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:03:41am

re: #63 ggt

The GOP , as it currently is, is only going to view Cain and a Healthy Red-Blooded American Male who says things women sometimes don't like. There is no evidence he every tried to force himself on a women or use his position to gain an advantage.

They will *snicker* and give him a pass.

Agreed. The wingnut base seems unbothered by this.

66 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:04:12am

re: #57 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Nothing was going to save the posturing, perhaps make it less obvious. The Right does themselves no favors by screaming "Bullshit!" with every new revelation in this story and accusing these women of being money-grubbing liars, so giving them a more visible target will just allow independents a chance to get a deeper whiff of the Right's misogyny in full bloom.

I agree. Regardless of who represents these women, they'll be smeared as gold diggers and/or oversensitive. If anything, Allred might take some of the heat off of the accuser since the focus will be on her.

67 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:04:28am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Agreed. The wingnut base seems unbothered by this.

As long has he "looks" and doesn't try to "touch", they won't see a problem.

68 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:04:31am

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They think he talks smart.

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:06:15am

re: #64 KingKenrod

It's not McCain's term, it's a post-Great Depression economics term.

In economics, rent-seeking is an attempt to derive economic rent by manipulating the social or political environment in which economic activities occur, rather than by adding value. An example of rent-seeking is the limitation of access to skilled occupations imposed by medieval guilds.

Many current studies of rent-seeking focus on efforts to capture various monopoly privileges stemming from government regulation of free enterprise competition. The term itself derives, however, from the far older practice of appropriating a portion of production by gaining ownership or control of land.

THAT'S what McCain is talking about? Or does he mean 'gold digger'?

70 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:06:24am

re: #67 ggt

As long has he "looks" and doesn't try to "touch", they won't see a problem.

Eh, I don't know if they'd see a problem with trying to touch, either. Lots of guys still seem to think that we should feel honoured that they deem us worthy for the attention. Or we asked for it because of how we dress/move/speak.

71 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:06:54am

re: #63 ggt

The GOP , as it currently is, is only going to view Cain and a Healthy Red-Blooded American Male who says things women sometimes don't like. There is no evidence he every tried to force himself on a women or use his position to gain an advantage.

They will *snicker* and give him a pass.

The more the GOP gives Cain a pass on this, the more it hurts them in the general election.

72 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:06:56am

So last night, I post Chicken Pox Parties Is 'Middle Ages Vigilante Vaccination' and I come back this morning to find someone defending the idea as a reasonable alternative to just going to a doctor and getting the vaccinations.

WTF is that shit?

73 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:07:33am

re: #68 prairiefire

They think he talks smart.

Compared to Cain, the man is a veritable Shakespeare. But an experienced bullshit artist is still nothing more than a bullshit artist.

74 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:07:56am

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

In economics, rent-seeking is an attempt to derive economic rent by manipulating the social or political environment in which economic activities occur, rather than by adding value. An example of rent-seeking is the limitation of access to skilled occupations imposed by medieval guilds.

Many current studies of rent-seeking focus on efforts to capture various monopoly privileges stemming from government regulation of free enterprise competition. The term itself derives, however, from the far older practice of appropriating a portion of production by gaining ownership or control of land.

THAT'S what McCain is talking about? Or does he mean 'gold digger'?

Most likely the latter. Probably was just trying to sound smart or clever.

75 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:08:08am

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So last night, I post Chicken Pox Parties Is 'Middle Ages Vigilante Vaccination' and I come back this morning to find someone defending the idea as a reasonable alternative to just going to a doctor and getting the vaccinations.

WTF is that shit?

One poster.

76 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:08:29am

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So last night, I post Chicken Pox Parties Is 'Middle Ages Vigilante Vaccination' and I come back this morning to find someone defending the idea as a reasonable alternative to just going to a doctor and getting the vaccinations.

WTF is that shit?

Wait, what? Seriously?

77 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:08:42am

re: #71 wrenchwench

The more the GOP gives Cain a pass on this, the more it hurts them in the general election.

At a certain point, also, they're going to have to deal with topic fatigue. The thing that makes me kind of chuckle is, the higher the stakes get for Cain, the more stuff about his background is going to come out.

Hello, vetting, anyone?

78 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:08:48am

Ted Allen Prepares 'Pretentious Foodie Bullsh*t' Meal (VIDEO)
NSFW language

79 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:09:36am

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So last night, I post Chicken Pox Parties Is 'Middle Ages Vigilante Vaccination' and I come back this morning to find someone defending the idea as a reasonable alternative to just going to a doctor and getting the vaccinations.

WTF is that shit?

Pure and utter insanity at its finest?

80 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:09:42am

re: #75 ggt

One poster.

One person can be someone. The idea anyone thinks its okay is nuts.

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:09:51am

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So last night, I post Chicken Pox Parties Is 'Middle Ages Vigilante Vaccination' and I come back this morning to find someone defending the idea as a reasonable alternative to just going to a doctor and getting the vaccinations.

WTF is that shit?

Yeah, I saw that.

An old friend posted a link on facebook to a "study" in which they brought up the point that the body's reaction to actually catching the disease is stronger than vaccines. Which is to say that if you actually catch chickenpox, your immunity is stronger than if you get the vaccine.

This is, technically, correct. There is, however, that little fine print that the body's natural reaction frequently includes the side effects of pain, suffering, paralysis, and death.

I suppose these are fine, as long as someone else is going through it.

82 neilk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:11:14am

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who, me? I very clearly said it's better than not getting a vaccination at all. I'm old enough that they didn't have chicken pox vaccines when I was a kid and pox parties were the only way to proactively acquire immunity. That isn't even very old.

83 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:12:43am

re: #82 neilk

Who, me? I very clearly said it's better than not getting a vaccination at all. I'm old enough that they didn't have chicken pox vaccines when I was a kid and pox parties were the only way to proactively acquire immunity. That isn't even very old.

Why would anyone pay $50 for a contaminated sucker when you can get a vaccination at the local public health facility for free?

84 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:13:09am

re: #81 EmmmieG

Yeah, I saw that.

An old friend posted a link on facebook to a "study" in which they brought up the point that the body's reaction to actually catching the disease is stronger than vaccines. Which is to say that if you actually catch chickenpox, your immunity is stronger than if you get the vaccine.

This is, technically, correct. There is, however, that little fine print that the body's natural reaction frequently includes the side effects of pain, suffering, paralysis, and death.

I suppose these are fine, as long as someone else is going through it.

I'm starting to fear that vaccinations are going to keep dropping off to a really serious level, with them only rebounding after major breakouts of deadly diseases we had previously effectively eliminated from the U.S. Yes, I think it might take actual demonstrations of why vaccinations are so important for younger generations to actually get it,

85 neilk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:13:33am

re: #83 Alouette

Are they $50? In my day, pox parties were a free service.

86 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:13:43am

re: #67 ggt

As long has he "looks" and doesn't try to "touch", they won't see a problem.

Even touching is given the green light, provided it's "excusable." Rubbing, fondling, squeezing, etc are "okay" so long as the harasser can claim that it was "non-sexual in nature." But they have to be careful, after setting the bar for sex at "blowjob."

87 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:14:01am

re: #61 Sionainn

Any idea where it's going to be shown?

It's weird, but I can't find it anywhere. I'll keep looking.

88 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:14:24am

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

One person can be someone. The idea anyone thinks its okay is nuts.

Apparently Republicans breed Libertarians. I know several young L's who have the "let them not get the shots if they don't want to" attitude.

89 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:14:46am

re: #85 neilk

Are they $50? In my day, pox parties were a free service.

YES SOMEBODY IS SELLING CONTAMINATED CANDY ON THE INTERNET FOR $50.

*head desk*

90 Sionainn  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:14:46am

re: #87 Obdicut

It's weird, but I can't find it anywhere. I'll keep looking.

I just found it on TMZ of all places. They usually show Gloria Allred press conferences.

91 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:15:07am

re: #85 neilk

Are they $50? In my day, pox parties were a free service.

You didn't even bother to read the article or you would have very clearly have seen:

According to WSMV-TV, a woman in Nashville, Tennessee was sending parents chicken-pox lollipops she claimed were contaminated with her sick children’s saliva at $50 dollars per lollipop.

92 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:15:31am

re: #90 Sionainn

TMZ does have a lot of sources.

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:15:52am

re: #81 EmmmieG

Yeah, I saw that.

An old friend posted a link on facebook to a "study" in which they brought up the point that the body's reaction to actually catching the disease is stronger than vaccines. Which is to say that if you actually catch chickenpox, your immunity is stronger than if you get the vaccine.

This is, technically, correct. There is, however, that little fine print that the body's natural reaction frequently includes the side effects of pain, suffering, paralysis, and death.

I suppose these are fine, as long as someone else is going through it.

exposing your kid to chickenpox might have made sense BEFORE the vaccine was available. Now, it makes NO sense at all.

94 Sionainn  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:16:06am

re: #92 prairiefire

TMZ does have a lot of sources.

LOL. I admit that I always check TMZ for "stuff."

95 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:16:17am

re: #90 Sionainn

Yep. here it is.

[Link: www.tmz.com...]

96 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:16:35am

re: #88 prairiefire

Apparently Republicans breed Libertarians. I know several young L's who have the "let them not get the shots if they don't want to" attitude.

Yeah, but I bet if you ask them who's responsible for the medical costs of folks who don't get vaccinated and then can't afford medical treatment, they'll either A) give you a doe-eyed look or B) fall back on the "it's their problem!" argument.

97 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:17:58am

re: #93 ggt

exposing your kid to chickenpox might have made sense BEFORE the vaccine was available. Now, it makes NO sense at all.

Next you're going to try to tell me trepanning doesn't make sense anymore because we have aspirin.

98 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:18:20am

re: #88 prairiefire

Apparently Republicans breed Libertarians. I know several young L's who have the "let them not get the shots if they don't want to" attitude.

Well, sadly this mind set comes from all directions. I mean, in many ways it seems the anti-vaccination movement has its highest profile boosters coming from what is normally considered the left. But yes, that's the danger of taking libertarian concepts too far and without actually thinking about them. The idea that the actions of one person can influence other people in ways that aren't 100% direct seems to be foreign to many who go by that name.

99 neilk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:18:39am

re: #91 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've read other things about "online pox parties" on Facebook and such and assumed this was the same sort of communitarian idea that the old-fashioned pox parties were. Anyway, it doesn't seem like the price has anything to do with the nature of your objection.

Meanwhile, you obviously didn't bother to read my comment, or else you wouldn't have claimed that I said pox parties were better than getting vaccinated rather than better than not getting vaccinated. I assume this was just sloppy rather than an intentional smear.

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:18:47am

re: #86 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Even touching is given the green light, provided it's "excusable." Rubbing, fondling, squeezing, etc are "okay" so long as the harasser can claim that it was "non-sexual in nature." But they have to be careful, after setting the bar for sex at "blowjob."

Ok, if a guy grabs my upper arm and squeezes and smiles at me that *special* way, I know what he means. I walk away. Some women would be totally insulted and freaked-out by that. If he touched my ass I'd yell at him in front of everyone.

As long as he doesn't try to use my denial as a way to negatively affect my life, I figure he tried, he lost.

Other woman would have nightmares.

WTF?

101 blueraven  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:18:58am

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Ted Allen Prepares 'Pretentious Foodie Bullsh*t' Meal (VIDEO)
NSFW language

LOL!

102 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:19:05am

Occupy Chairlifts

103 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:20:07am

re: #96 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's more like a cow eyed look.

104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:20:22am

re: #97 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Next you're going to try to tell me trepanning doesn't make sense anymore because we have aspirin.

Well, ya know . . .I watched a few seasons of House.

105 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:20:55am

And the presser will begin shortly.

106 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:21:07am

re: #95 Obdicut

Yep. here it is.

[Link: www.tmz.com...]

I hope she's cute.
/// - adding sarc for those who need to see the slashes.

107 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:21:19am

re: #100 ggt

Ok, if a guy grabs my upper arm and squeezes and smiles at me that *special* way, I know what he means. I walk away. Some women would be totally insulted and freaked-out by that. If he touched my ass I'd yell at him in front of everyone.

As long as he doesn't try to use my denial as a way to negatively affect my life, I figure he tried, he lost.

Other woman would have nightmares.

WTF?

And I think actions of the first kind are most common in part for that very reason. Less likely to be reported. Easier to dismiss as "innocent", even if they're no less offensive and invading than other more obvious actions.

108 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:22:31am

re: #106 darthstar

I hope she's cute.

*smack*

Come on, I'm saving my downdings for Buck...

109 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:23:02am

re: #102 darthstar

Occupy Mordor.

110 Kragar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:23:02am

re: #99 neilk

I've read other things about "online pox parties" on Facebook and such and assumed this was the same sort of communitarian idea that the old-fashioned pox parties were. Anyway, it doesn't seem like the price has anything to do with the nature of your objection.

Meanwhile, you obviously didn't bother to read my comment, or else you wouldn't have claimed that I said pox parties were better than getting vaccinated rather than better than not getting vaccinated. I assume this was just sloppy rather than an intentional smear.

Some positions are indefensible. This is one.

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:23:04am

re: #107 Simply Sarah

And I think actions of the first kind are most common in part for that very reason. Less likely to be reported. Easier to dismiss as "innocent", even if they're no less offensive and invading than other more obvious actions.

I guess I don't fault a man for trying, I fault him for being a sore loser.

112 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:23:07am

re: #108 wrenchwench

*smack*

Come on, I'm saving my downdings for Buck...

Sarc slashes added...but thanks for the smooch.

113 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:25:11am

re: #111 ggt

I guess I don't fault a man for trying, I fault him for being a sore loser.

But there is a difference between a peer asking you to lunch and a boss making it clear that you can buy kneepads or start printing out resumes.

114 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:25:17am

re: #111 ggt

I guess I don't fault a man for trying, I fault him for being a sore loser.

I should add, if a man/person thinks they might ever run for public office, they should be congnizant of that fact in all their professional dealings.

115 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:25:33am

re: #111 ggt

I guess I don't fault a man for trying, I fault him for being a sore loser.

Especially in a work environment, I'll totally fault a man (Or woman) for trying. I really don't need some creepy touching from a coworker (Or boss!).

116 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:26:04am

re: #113 EmmmieG

But there is a difference between a peer asking you to lunch and a boss making it clear that you can buy kneepads or start printing out resumes.

The latter would be --being a sore loser. Yeah, I don't go for that.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:27:01am

re: #115 Simply Sarah

Especially in a work environment, I'll totally fault a man (Or woman) for trying. I really don't need some creepy touching from a coworker (Or boss!).

In the work environment, yes. Christmas party where everyone has some "punch"? Probably why fewer and fewer companies pay for alcohol.

119 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:27:05am

Thumbs down for Occupy, Tea Party in new nationwide poll

The online poll of 1,005 American adults reveals that 35 percent still have a positive impression of the Occupy movement, but 40 percent now say they have an unfavorable opinion. About one quarter of the poll respondents had no opinion or were unsure.

It could just be a blip in polling but I found this interesting....

Surprisingly, lower-income voters have the least favorable opinion of the Occupy movement, while those making more than $100,000 are more supportive.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:27:22am

re: #76 Simply Sarah

Wait, what? Seriously?

Not sure. He seems to have reversed position now. I dunno what he means.

121 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:27:34am

re: #113 EmmmieG

But there is a difference between a peer asking you to lunch and a boss making it clear that you can buy kneepads or start printing out resumes.

Pretty much. The more senior one is to the target of the harassment, the more likely they are to go further with it. Somebody below will just give less than innocent looks or mutters behind their back, peers might try to ask "innocent" questions or make "innocent" touches and grabs. But when you hold a person's career over their heads, it ceases to be "innocent."

122 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:27:46am

re: #116 ggt

The latter would be --being a sore loser. Yeah, I don't go for that.

I think we may be using slightly different definitions for sore loser.

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:28:28am

And how do all the office romances and marriages come about. I hear about more of them from friends and from my own experience.

I wouldn't dream of dating someone from work --ever.

124 Simply Sarah  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:29:30am

re: #118 ggt

In the work environment, yes. Christmas party where everyone has some "punch"? Probably why fewer and fewer companies pay for alcohol.

This is part of the reason I'm always wary about social drinking outside of family events.

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:29:42am

re: #121 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pretty much. The more senior one is to the target of the harassment, the more likely they are to go further with it. Somebody below will just give less than innocent looks or mutters behind their back, peers might try to ask "innocent" questions or make "innocent" touches and grabs. But when you hold a person's career over their heads, it ceases to be "innocent."

Anyone on a position of power over another has to be especially careful. Just the fact that they are a boss or of a higher "rank" could be enough to be considered "intimidation".

i.e. Herman Cain.

126 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:30:00am

Who the fuck is this douchebag?

127 darthstar  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:30:37am

Elisa Jordana

128 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:30:44am

re: #124 Simply Sarah

This is part of the reason I'm always wary about social drinking outside of family events.

Stay away from the restaurant business!

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:31:18am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Michele Bachmann: ‘If Anyone Will Not Work, Neither Should He Eat’

[Video]

What a f-in BITCH.

131 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:31:39am

re: #119 Killgore Trout

That same poll found that the public doesn't like:

1) government
2) Tea Party
3) OWS
4) pretty much everything else.

Everyone seems to have a dim view of governance in the country, and yet no one seems interested in voting to try and make a difference. We've got local elections tomorrow, and I doubt there will be more than a handful of people voting in those local elections.

Some controversial measures are on the ballot this year, including the personhood measure in MS. Here in NJ, it's a proposal to allow the AC casinos to provide sports books (to compete with Vegas). They're banking on the low turnout for passage in some cases.

132 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:31:50am

Classy nose wipe, right there. Is he drunk?

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:34:31am

re: #82 neilk

Who, me? I very clearly said it's better than not getting a vaccination at all. I'm old enough that they didn't have chicken pox vaccines when I was a kid and pox parties were the only way to proactively acquire immunity. That isn't even very old.

Yes, but, we have something better now, and the something better has taken away many of the social factors that used to make this less-good option safer.

If I can't get my snakebit kid to a doctor, washing and wrapping it, and using the little suction device in the first aid kit is better than nothing. But doing that--or the ol' cowboy cut and suck, which isn't recommended at all--instead of letting the nice guy in the helicopter get my child to paramedics with an anti-venin kit is pathological.

134 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:34:57am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Michele Bachmann: ‘If Anyone Will Not Work, Neither Should He Eat’

[Video]

I sort of agree, if I get to define "work". Take a few pounds off chubby hubby, there.

135 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:34:57am

re: #131 lawhawk

Everyone seems to have a dim view of governance in the country, and yet no one seems interested in voting to try and make a difference. We've got local elections tomorrow, and I doubt there will be more than a handful of people voting in those local elections.

In spite of widespread discontent the public doesn't seem very interested in populist movements like OWS or Tea Party. I'm not sure it that the fault of the population or the populists.

136 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:35:25am

re: #111 ggt

I guess I don't fault a man for trying, I fault him for being a sore loser.

I fault them for both, usually. It's work, not a pick up joint or a bar, and I'm busy.

Same for women.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:35:30am

re: #85 neilk

Are they $50? In my day, pox parties were a free service.

Mine too, but MOST KIDS IN ANY GIVEN NEIGHBORHOOD ARE VACCINATED NOW.

This means that people who are stupid enough to refuse vaccination are increasingly doing stupid stuff to expose their child the old fashioned way, greatly increasing the risks associated with it.

138 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:36:59am

Hang in there, Mr. Cain--my party needs you.

139 neilk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:39:34am

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but, we have something better now

Since we have quite a little movement of people who are rejecting "something better" I thought that comparing "something worse" and "nothing at all" was a relevant exercise. But apparently the only exercise that is relevant is aerobic stomping on the face of people who have anything to say other than "vax good! anti-vax bad!"

140 makeitstop  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:39:55am

re: #126 Obdicut

Who the fuck is this douchebag?

I'm LOLing at him hitting on female reporters. Allred's probably going to smack him when she comes to the podium.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:42:43am

re: #139 neilk

Since we have quite a little movement of people who are rejecting "something better" I thought that comparing "something worse" and "nothing at all" was a relevant exercise. But apparently the only exercise that is relevant is aerobic stomping on the face of people who have anything to say other than "vax good! anti-vax bad!"

Vax is good. And anti-vax is bad.

I'm hoping to become a parent in the next couple of years. Can you give me one good reason why it would be a responsible thing for me to refuse the standard of medical care for my child, and instead band together with other parents to do something that's outdated and more risky to the child's health? Up to and including mail-order half-sucked candies?

Remember, snakebite. The helicopter is right there. The paramedics have anti-venin. But I'm waving them off, yelling that I'd rather treat this with my little first-aid kid, like a good prairie mom.

Why?

142 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:47:11am

re: #54 Simply Sarah

Bah. Let them posture. The harder it'll be for them to go in reverse once this fully blows up to a point where denial is no longer possible.

I believe that the tactic is to not reverse, skip denial, and go straight to ignore and "look at that!" distractions while they switch the goblets.

143 neilk  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:48:12am

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you give me one good reason why it would be a responsible thing for me to refuse the standard of medical care for my child, and instead band together with other parents to do something that's outdated and more risky to the child's health?

No, and if you think I would, I must have been communicating very badly in this thread and the other one.

Now, if we pretend you were the sort of parent who says "I will never get a vaccine or listen to anyone who says I should," I would probably recommend a pox party, rather than just telling you how goddamn ignorant and unfit to be a parent you are and that you should probably go sterilize yourself instead of pissing in the gene pool. (I do NOT mean buying a contaminated sucker off the Internet, why anybody would think to describe that as a "party" is beyond me.)

144 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:50:47am

re: #73 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Compared to Cain, the man is a veritable Shakespeare. But an experienced bullshit artist is still nothing more than a bullshit artist.

They prefer the term "stand-up philosopher".

;)

145 blueraven  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 10:52:46am

re: #135 Killgore Trout

In spite of widespread discontent the public doesn't seem very interested in populist movements like OWS or Tea Party. I'm not sure it that the fault of the population or the populists.

I think on the part of the tea party, the public has seen what their agenda really looks like when put into action. The debt ceiling debacle, and anti abortion legislation has exposed them for what they are...social and economic extremists.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:02:42am

re: #143 neilk

No, and if you think I would, I must have been communicating very badly in this thread and the other one.

Now, if we pretend you were the sort of parent who says "I will never get a vaccine or listen to anyone who says I should," I would probably recommend a pox party, rather than just telling you how goddamn ignorant and unfit to be a parent you are and that you should probably go sterilize yourself instead of pissing in the gene pool. (I do NOT mean buying a contaminated sucker off the Internet, why anybody would think to describe that as a "party" is beyond me.)

I can, very very grudgingly, agree to that, but it's very hard for me to accept a premise of a parent who simply won't get their child good medical care, when it is available. Or to approve of their subsequent actions, just because they're less damaging than other irresponsible actions might be.

147 leftynyc  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:38:08am

re: #119 Killgore Trout

An online poll. Is there a link to anything resembling methodology?

148 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:42:45am

re: #131 lawhawk

We've got local elections tomorrow, and I doubt there will be more than a handful of people voting in those local elections.

I've read the Times Union last week. They were complaining about there being pretty much no competition for the people running for office. Bad state of affairs.

149 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:46:34am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Michele Bachmann: ‘If Anyone Will Not Work, Neither Should He Eat’

[Video]

Context: She is quoting scripture there: 2 Thess. 3:10.

Interestingly enough, that's a phrase that has historically even been picked up by the workers' movement in Europe in the 19th century. Something about the right to work...

150 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:48:41am

re: #149 000G

Weird that she'd come out so harsh against people who make their income from investment.

/

151 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:56:00am

re: #150 Obdicut

Weird that she'd come out so harsh against people who make their income from investment.

/

Heh. That's pretty much the argument from the workers' movement against their contemporary capitalists back in the day: their honest but unfairly compensated labor versus the rich just getting rich from surplus value exploitation. It's fun to read Lafargue's polemic against their proclaimed right to labor, btw: [Link: www.marxists.org...]

152 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:58:52am

re: #151 000G

If, uprooting from its heart the vice which dominates it and degrades its nature, the working class were to arise in its terrible strength, not to demand the Rights of Man, which are but the rights of capitalist exploitation, not to demand the Right to Work which is but the right to misery, but to forge a brazen law forbidding any man to work more than three hours a day, the earth, the old earth, trembling with joy would feel a new universe leaping within her. But how should we ask a proletariat corrupted by capitalist ethics, to take a manly resolution ...

Like Christ, the doleful personification of ancient slavery, the men, the women and the children of the proletariat have been climbing painfully for a century up the hard Calvary of pain; for a century compulsory toil has broken their bones, bruised their flesh, tortured their nerves; for a century hunger has torn their entrails and their brains. O Laziness, have pity on our long misery! O Laziness, mother of the arts and noble virtues, be thou the balm of human anguish!


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