Rep. Joe Walsh Screams at Town Hall Questioners

Better not call him a ‘teabagger’

PoliticsNovember 2011 • Views: 17,850

Tea Party Republican Rep. Joe Walsh recently received the “True Blue” award from the religious right’s Family Research Council for his “pro-family” activities — but it doesn’t seem to have put him in a good mood.

Here he is screaming like a lunatic at a town hall meeting, when his constituents dare to bring up the possibility that banks and Wall Street might have something to do with America’s economic problems:

Youtube Video

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165 comments

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:46:13am

What an ill-tempered dick.

Targetpractice Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:46:42am

Sorta makes you understand why Republicans have been shying more and more away from town hall meetings since this whole mess began.

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:46:49am

Sounds like he's getting laughed at.

Good.

What a pathetic figure.

funky chicken Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:47:36am

Wall Street has danced and partied and rewarded every company that has offshored jobs and assets since at least the late 80s when I started paying attention. It's one reason I have never invested in stocks, even though they have made lots of money for folks over that time. I just think the whole thing is immoral and bad for the country.

I guess I'll never be rich. Bummer.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:47:37am

Nasty, seething.

albusteve Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:49:11am

if he asked me to leave, I'd jump in his face and say fuck off...I hate politicians

funky chicken Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:49:29am

And local banks and credit unions are not at fault here. I expect GOP/TP folks to start trying to confuse people by conflating the local banks and big investment banking firms and making it sound like there is a big attempt to demonize local banks, etc.

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:49:38am

I love how he acts like all this is the government's fault but the banks are blameless. What a tool.

jaunte Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:50:16am

"DON'T BLAME THE BANKS, THAT PISSES ME OFF."

What a fool.

What, me worry? Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:50:36am

A bully on his bully pulpit.

wrenchwench Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:51:46am

I'm tired of hearing the truth!!1! You need to listen to me!1!

jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:52:53am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

I love how he acts like all this is the government's fault but the banks are blameless. What a tool.

Government is completely to blame for all of this, that's why you should re-elect me!

wrenchwench Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:54:16am

He should be drinking the tea, not hanging the little bags on his hat. Some chamomile would be nice.

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:54:19am

re: #9 jaunte

"DON'T BLAME THE BANKS, THAT PISSES ME OFF."

What a fool.

"Would it be better if we blame fathers who don't take care of their kids instead?"

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:54:49am

re: #12 jamesfirecat

Government is completely to blame for all of this, that's why you should re-elect me!

Yeah let's give the guy a position in something he hates. It'd be like making me thinking I should be a good math teacher.

jaunte Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:55:07am

Walsh responded (excused himself) via email:

I do these cup of joe’s every wkend, I show up at a coffee shop or restaurant anywhere in district and anyone can come meet with me and talk to me about anything. They are fun, engaging sessions, I often get people who disagree w me on issues at these events and the conversation can be very spirited.

I am very passionate at these events as well as at my town halls. This was no different except I was working on an empty stomach and had a quicker fuse than normal.

The woman I had the heated exchange with was great and she appreciated how open and unusual these events are. I apologized to her for getting a bit to passionate and she smiled and didn’t mind at all.

Regarding the substance rich of what I was trying to say - I’m no pal of the big banks and I wouldn’t have voted to bail any of them out. If they’ve abused their charters they need to be prosecuted fully. But they didn’t get us into this mess - goverment policy which has dictated for years that everyone should own a home got us here. The banks only followed the rules government set. And further government meddling will only exasperate the problem.
[Link: capitolfax.com...]

Mah stummick wuz empty.

Varek Raith Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:55:16am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Would it be better if we blame fathers who don't take care of their kids instead?"

Pwnd.

thatthatisis Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:55:20am

He screams that he's tired of hearing all this crap about the banks having responsibility for the meltdown.

He may be tired of hearing it, but he sure never tried understanding it. He should give actual listening and understanding a shot. Might be a real epiphany.

wrenchwench Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:55:22am

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Would it be better if we blame fathers who don't take care of their kids instead?"

Shut up! You! Leave now!

nines09 Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:55:22am

I guess if someone mentioned his owing on child support he would have melted down. Missed oportunity. What a tool. Another Proud Moment in GOP/TP Politics.

lawhawk Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:55:44am

In an age of you-tube and do-it-yourself publication of videos, avoiding the "ill-tempered politicians caught on tape" look should be something aspiring and current politicians should be lesson 1. Yet, he goes off on the very people he's claiming to represent.

How tone deaf can a person get? Does he really think he's winning votes this way? Does he realize that other politicians within his party are going to get hammered with this line of thinking (because they too share that kind of belief). Because it seems that he doesn't get just how bad he might look on tape - and how it might affect him down the road.

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:56:03am

Hey, dickhead, why is Canuckistan so much better off than the US? Because of the sensible banking regulations that take into account the human fucking nature to gamble inappropriately.

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:56:36am

Joe Walsh espousing, testifying, the Gospel of Free Market Jesus.

[No sarcasm.]

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:56:42am

re: #21 lawhawk

In an age of you-tube and do-it-yourself publication of videos, avoiding the "ill-tempered politicians caught on tape" look should be something aspiring and current politicians should be lesson 1. Yet, he goes off on the very people he's claiming to represent.

How tone deaf can a person get? Does he really think he's winning votes this way? Does he realize that other politicians within his party are going to get hammered with this line of thinking (because they too share that kind of belief). Because it seems that he doesn't get just how bad he might look on tape - and how it might affect him down the road.

And now you can see why Wisconsin banned cameras but allowed guns in the Capital
/

Targetpractice Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:56:53am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

I love how he acts like all this is the government's fault but the banks are blameless. What a tool.

It's all they've got at this point. Except it falls flat when you remember that, in '04, Dubya himself was trumpeting the success of his tax cuts as leading to record home ownership. So Walsh screaming about how the government promoted home ownership and made it easy, supposedly in spite of the banks not wishing that to be so, is either a very bad joke or a demonstration of just how little he knows about...well...anything.

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:57:16am

What's he going to do if the person says "Yes!" to the question of "Do you want more regulation?"

Call them a stupid-head?

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:57:33am

re: #16 jaunte

Walsh responded (excused himself) via email:

Mah stummick wuz empty.

I think he has been fed an 'updated' version of history.

iossarian Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:57:46am

re: #16 jaunte

Walsh responded (excused himself) via email:

But they didn’t get us into this mess - goverment policy which has dictated for years that everyone should own a home got us here. The banks only followed the rules government set.

Right-wing lies. The vast majority of sub-prime lending was undertaken by private institutions. That's why the bailout was necessary.

jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:57:46am

re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And now you can see why Wisconsin banned cameras but allowed guns in the Capital
/

Clearly the only way around this problem is to design a camera that looks like a gun!

Take your pick!

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:57:46am

re: #26 Obdicut

What's he going to do if the person says "Yes!" to the question of "Do you want more regulation?"

Call them a stupid-head?

"COMMIE!"

nines09 Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:58:22am

He's going to ask a citizen to leave a public watering hole because he doesn't want to hear him ask a simple question. Sounds like he's real big in his little world. Thief. How's your ex wife and kids, Joe?

funky chicken Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:58:54am

re: #16 jaunte

Walsh responded (excused himself) via email:

Mah stummick wuz empty.

Ehem. Exasperate?

I'm sympathetic when they say stupid stuff live. But in writing?

That word doesn't mean what you think it means. LOL.

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:00:00am

re: #23 Gus 802

Joe Walsh espousing, testifying, the Gospel of Free Market Jesus.

[No sarcasm.]

I bet this guy can't even play guitar.

Sionainn Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:00:49am

re: #32 funky chicken

Ehem. Exasperate?

I'm sympathetic when they say stupid stuff live. But in writing?

That word doesn't mean what you think it means. LOL.

LOL.

dragonath Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:00:54am

It's funny watching the conservatives flail away on the youtube comments. Thanks for reminding us why your party got shellacked last night, ya dopes.

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:01:07am

Joe Walsh: Campaign Finance/Money - Industries - Representative Career | OpenSecrets

Top Industries
Representative Joe Walsh

Securities & Investment $132,329
Retired $95,371
Insurance $56,744
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $41,200

Kronocide Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:01:07am

Don't blame the free market, blame the government

That's all you need to know. Don't blame banks, the market, corporations.

Government is your problem.

Banks, markets, corporations are the solution. Through them, all things good. Through government, all things bad.

Vote with your dollars.

I bet he's a big fan of Ayn Rand.

Varek Raith Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:01:19am

Sigh.
Image: Presidential-Religion-Poll.png

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:01:48am

re: #37 BigPapa

Don't blame the free market, blame the government

That's all you need to know. Don't blame banks, the market, corporations.

Government is your problem.

Banks, markets, corporations are the solution. Through them, all things good. Through government, all things bad.

Vote with your dollars.

I bet he's a big fan of Ayn Rand.

There's magic in them there hands...

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:02:06am

I'll wager even money this guy ends up assaulting someone before the election.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:02:50am

re: #15 HappyWarrior

Yeah let's give the guy a position in something he hates. It'd be like making me thinking I should be a good math teacher.

You might be surprised. The times I've had to tutor math, I actually found it rather fun...I know exactly how the mind of someone who doesn't understand math easily works, having one myself, so I'm infinitely patient.

Less so in my own field.

Political Atheist Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:03:52am

re: #28 iossarian

Since private institutions were able to do loans "compliant" with fannie and freddie, and since giving mortgages to those who have inadequate or barely adequate income was not a key factor in the crash, you are both overstating.

Kronocide Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:04:00am

I think it's time for a New Bible, Ronaldus Maximus version:

Book of Ayn Rand

Book of Norquist

Book of Friedman

Book of Limbaugh

Book of .....

And on that note, I'm going to do my best to fix this country by committing capitalism. Good day.

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:04:45am

re: #38 Varek Raith

Sigh.
Image: Presidential-Religion-Poll.png

Not surprising considering that America shares almost the same religious intensity as your average country in the Middle East.

BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:05:26am

re: #36 Gus 802

Joe Walsh: Campaign Finance/Money - Industries - Representative Career | OpenSecrets

Top Industries
Representative Joe Walsh

Securities & Investment $132,329

My, my. What a surprise.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:05:33am

I am kind of surprised that he doesn't scream about them marxist trustfund kiddies and how they need some macin'.

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:05:46am

re: #38 Varek Raith

Sigh.
Image: Presidential-Religion-Poll.png

Yay, we win!

Reason #47 I'd be an idiot to run for office.

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:06:17am

re: #37 BigPapa

I bet he's a big fan of Ayn Rand.

Atheist!

//Now that's irony.

Targetpractice Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:06:40am

Thing is, Walsh can't even keep his own party's BS talking points straight. You know, the ones that go that the whole reason for the collapse in the housing market is because the government "forced" banks to give loans to poor folks and minorities, ignoring the legions of middle class and white folks who were convinced by banks that their house was an "investment" and that the key to big bucks was buying low, renovating, and selling for more.

And this, of course, ignores the inability of the GOP to find any proof that the government forced banks to package toxic assets, coerce ratings agencies to slap AAA ratings on those assets, and then sell them to investors. But I'm sure they're still hard at work on that one *rolls eyes*

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:06:54am

re: #42 Rightwingconspirator

The home loans were not the cause of the meltdown. The securitization of them was. That is entirely, entirely on the financial industry. Nobody forced them to make financial instruments out of the mortgages that carried shitloads of risk but they pretended carried zero risk.

funky chicken Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:07:03am

re: #25 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's all they've got at this point. Except it falls flat when you remember that, in '04, Dubya himself was trumpeting the success of his tax cuts as leading to record home ownership. So Walsh screaming about how the government promoted home ownership and made it easy, supposedly in spite of the banks not wishing that to be so, is either a very bad joke or a demonstration of just how little he knows about...well...anything.

Well...and add in the fact that the taxes the GOP just proposed raising? They want to slash the mortgage interest tax deduction but keep the Bush tax cut top rate for the richest.

So they are gonna slap the middle class with an increase (or take away a tax break, which they always trumpet as an increase) but refuse to take away the tax break for the richest passed by Bush.

How would their plan help the economy, or the housing market, or the middle class? It wouldn't. It would hurt all 3. But it would keep the low rate in place for the richest Americans.

These guys need to lose in 2012, and lose badly. But I don't know how informed most voters are.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:07:46am

re: #18 thatthatisis

He screams that he's tired of hearing all this crap about the banks having responsibility for the meltdown.

He may be tired of hearing it, but he sure never tried understanding it. He should give actual listening and understanding a shot. Might be a real epiphany.

You mean the banks never marketed sub-prime balloon loans to a demographic that they knew could totally not afford it?
Wait, what?

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:07:51am

Ladies & Gentlemen, this is what "Free Market" ideology produces: Anti-government radicals yelling their resentments out at the top of their lungs, believing it's sound economics.

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:08:04am

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

You might be surprised. The times I've had to tutor math, I actually found it rather fun...I know exactly how the mind of someone who doesn't understand math easily works, having one myself, so I'm infinitely patient.

Less so in my own field.

You know? That makes a lot of sense. It's my understanding that the best sports coaches are often people who weren't stars but keen students of their game.

What, me worry? Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:08:40am

re: #16 jaunte

Walsh responded (excused himself) via email:

Mah stummick wuz empty.

LOL Don't mess with a teabagger and his lunch!!

You guys should make one of those poster thingies on this one.

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:09:13am

re: #38 Varek Raith

Sigh.
Image: Presidential-Religion-Poll.png

The relatively high against Evangelical for Dems surprises me since haven't two of the last three Democratic presidents been evangelicals? Baptists both Carter and Clinton.

Targetpractice Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:09:21am

re: #51 funky chicken

Well...and add in the fact that the taxes the GOP just proposed raising? They want to slash the mortgage interest tax deduction but keep the Bush tax cut top rate for the richest.

So they are gonna slap the middle class with an increase (or take away a tax break, which they always trumpet as an increase) but refuse to take away the tax break for the richest passed by Bush.

How would their plan help the economy, or the housing market, or the middle class? It wouldn't. It would hurt all 3. But it would keep the low rate in place for the richest Americans.

These guys need to lose in 2012, and lose badly. But I don't know how informed most voters are.

Yeah, I heard about that, and how the Democrats subsequently turned it down. At this point, my only guess is the GOP's making a last-ditch effort to salvage something out of the whole supercommittee debacle, trying to piece together something "reasonable" that they can then say Democrats walked away from, even though under the surface their "reasonable" offer was just repackaging all the BS that they've tried (and failed) to sale up to now.

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:09:43am

re: #50 Obdicut

The home loans were not hte cause of the meltdown. The securitization of them was. That is entirely, entirely on the financial industry. Nobody forced them to make financial instruments out of the mortgages that carried shitloads of risk but they pretended carried zero risk.

This is a gross oversimplification. Failures of risk management, unwillingness to properly enforce regulation, risk-blind government policy and overall rampant greed on the part of certain issuers and investors all had a role in the collapse of the mortgage market. Blaming a financial process - securitization - is like blaming an engine for a car crash.

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:09:53am

Pay no attention to the robo-signing foreclosure scams either. You know the ones that are seeing banks sued in every state and is now being negotiated towards immunity for those banks with the White House as part of an upcoming mortgage relief package.

Yes. The government made them do it.

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:10:54am

re: #56 HappyWarrior

The relatively high against Evangelical for Dems surprises me since haven't two of the last three Democratic presidents been evangelicals? Baptists both Carter and Clinton.

Clinton was rather secular in his actions, though, or at least the parts of him normally hidden by his pants were.

Simply Sarah Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:11:07am

re: #50 Obdicut

The home loans were not the cause of the meltdown. The securitization of them was. That is entirely, entirely on the financial industry. Nobody forced them to make financial instruments out of the mortgages that carried shitloads of risk but they pretended carried zero risk.

We stand by our position that the pilots were entirely at fault and the fact that we just grabbed random people off the street and shoved them into the cockpit had nothing to do with the crashes.

jaunte Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:11:18am

"You know we're going to drive like idiots, it's your fault for not pulling us over."

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:11:29am

re: #58 imp_62

This is a gross oversimplification. Failures of risk management, unwillingness to properly enforce regulation, risk-blind government policy and overall rampant greed on the part of certain issuers and investors all had a role in the collapse of the mortgage market. Blaming a financial process - securitization - is like blaming an engine for a car crash.

I'm not blaming securitization. I was blaming this particular case of securitization. I was blaming them pretending these securities did not carry risk that they did. Did you just miss me talking about risk or something?

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:11:39am

re: #58 imp_62

This is a gross oversimplification. Failures of risk management, unwillingness to properly enforce regulation, risk-blind government policy and overall rampant greed on the part of certain issuers and investors all had a role in the collapse of the mortgage market. Blaming a financial process - securitization - is like blaming an engine for a car crash.

No but one can certainly blame a suspension system design, faulty tires, transmissions, and throttle controllers. See Chevy, Audi and Toyota.

funky chicken Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:11:39am

re: #50 Obdicut

The home loans were not hte cause of the meltdown. The securitization of them was. That is entirely, entirely on the financial industry. Nobody forced them to make financial instruments out of the mortgages that carried shitloads of risk but they pretended carried zero risk.

My dad is a hard right fiscal conservative CPA, and has unfortunately become somewhat enamored of TP/GOP crap, but he's said all along that many people at AIG and Goldmann Sachs should be wearing orange jumpsuits.

It the GOP continues to market themselves as the defenders of those guys my dad may come back to sanity.

So, say it loud and proud, GOP/TP folks.

Varek Raith Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:12:03am

re: #60 b_sharp

Clinton was rather secular in his actions, though, or at least the parts of him normally hidden by his pants were.

Youtube Video

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:12:12am

re: #60 b_sharp

Clinton was rather secular in his actions, though, or at least the parts of him normally hidden by his pants were.

Yeah but the question posed was would you vote for an Evangelical. Honestly, I don't give a shit if someone believes in God or not.

What, me worry? Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:12:16am

re: #21 lawhawk

In an age of you-tube and do-it-yourself publication of videos, avoiding the "ill-tempered politicians caught on tape" look should be something aspiring and current politicians should be lesson 1. Yet, he goes off on the very people he's claiming to represent.

How tone deaf can a person get? Does he really think he's winning votes this way? Does he realize that other politicians within his party are going to get hammered with this line of thinking (because they too share that kind of belief). Because it seems that he doesn't get just how bad he might look on tape - and how it might affect him down the road.

Especially considering that Congress critters are supposed to also represent the constituents that do NOT agree with him. Democracy gets you a fair vote (supposedly). The Republic gives the minority a voice.

In Joe Walsh's world, you're not allowed to disagree with him even if he represents you. Not very "republic" of him. Sounds like he'd feel more at home... oh, I don't know... in Cuba or Iran where he can beat people over the head like this.

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:12:20am

re: #47 Obdicut

Yay, we win!

Reason #47 I'd be an idiot to run for office.

I'm glad to see there is no bias against Khornate Americans.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:12:29am

One entire sector of your economy defrauds the rest by taking mortgages (i.e. debt obligations), calling them assets (i.e. the opposite of obligations) and selling everybody down the river whilst enriching themselves every step of the way with short bets and TARP monies. Nobody gets prosecuted. Government failed and continues to fail.

The GOP's answer? Government must fail even HARDER!

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:12:42am

Ford Pinto gasoline tanks didn't explode upon impact because of a faulty design! They exploded because people follow too closely. -- Free Market Jesus

zora Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:13:12am

re: #56 HappyWarrior

all baptists don't identify as evangelical. don't think clinton does. not sure about carter.

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:13:46am

re: #72 zora

all baptists don't identify as evangelical. don't think clinton does. not sure about carter.

My mistake.

Targetpractice Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:14:14am

re: #70 000G

One entire sector of your economy defrauds the rest by taking mortgages (i.e. debt obligations), calling them assets (i.e. the opposite of obligations) and selling everybody down the river whilst enriching themselves every step of the way with short bets and TARP monies. Nobody gets prosecuted. Government failed and continues to fail.

The GOP's answer? Government must fail even HARDER!

The GOP's answer is what it's always been: "The government is broken, so elect us so we can break it further!"

Lidane Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:14:17am

Sorry to go OT so soon, but Rasumssen has released their latest bit of fail:

2012 Florida Republican Primary
Florida Primary: Cain 30%, Romney 24%, Gingrich 19%

As he continues to battle media coverage over past sexual harassment allegations, businessman Herman Cain leads other Republican hopefuls in the first Rasmussen Reports look at the GOP primary race in Florida.

The latest statewide telephone survey of Likely Republican Primary voters shows Cain with 30% support while former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney picks up 24% of the vote. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich draws support from 19% of Florida GOP voters with no other candidate picking up double-digits.

This Florida survey of 788 Likely Republican Primary Voters was conducted on November 8, 2011 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 4 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:14:20am

Only by completely abolishing welfare and crushing the unions can we save our free market economy from the Marxists!

Political Atheist Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:14:30am

re: #50 Obdicut

The home loans were not the cause of the meltdown. The securitization of them was. That is entirely, entirely on the financial industry. Nobody forced them to make financial instruments out of the mortgages that carried shitloads of risk but they pretended carried zero risk.

One should not argue these bad loans had no effect. They were a factor in making the crash worse. As in more foreclosures than otherwise.

Albeit not the cause as you said. Of course the securitization was a fail by the banks and the regulators who looked the other way. Just like with Madoff.

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:15:16am

re: #75 Lidane

Sorry to go OT so soon, but Rasumssen has released their latest bit of fail:

2012 Florida Republican Primary
Florida Primary: Cain 30%, Romney 24%, Gingrich 19%

Family values huh.

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:15:27am

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Yeah but the question posed was would you vote for an Evangelical. Honestly, I don't give a shit if someone believes in God or not.

Unless they try to inject, insert, or wedge a mythical worldview into something as objectively important as science class.

Simply Sarah Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:15:39am

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm glad to see there is no bias against Khornate Americans.

I think their main concerns are with followers of Slaanesh.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:16:01am

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Yeah but the question posed was would you vote for an Evangelical. Honestly, I don't give a shit if someone believes in God or not.

I have no reason not to vote for an Evangelical. I look at track record, ideas, policy, general non-sliminess factor (which includes getting the church and state, I'm not hiring you for Bible study leader concept). And party affiliation.

A politician's religious beliefs are exactly as much my business as he or she chooses to make them.

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:16:35am

re: #76 000G

Or the compact 4-word version: In God We Trust

See! Problem solved.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:16:48am

re: #71 Gus 802

Ford Pinto gasoline tanks didn't explode upon impact because of a faulty design! They exploded because people follow too closely. -- Free Market Jesus

Kinky Friedman claims that his lawyer once got a sodomy charge reduced to one of 'following too closely'.

Political Atheist Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:16:55am

Geez it's another screaming memes episode.

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:17:21am

re: #80 Simply Sarah

I think their main concerns are with followers of Slaanesh.

Fun at parties

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:17:21am

re: #74 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The GOP's answer is what it's always been: "The government is broken, so elect us so we can break it further!"

People who trust in the Marxist secular government deserve to be deserted and punished by God! Oh yeah, btw, that will include us, once we get elected. Hail, Christian America!

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:17:41am

re: #72 zora

all baptists don't identify as evangelical. don't think clinton does. not sure about carter.

My understanding is that Carter does.

HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:19:03am

re: #79 b_sharp

Unless they try to inject, insert, or wedge a mythical worldview into something as objectively important as science class.

Of course. But in a vaccum it doesn't bother me.

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:20:05am

re: #63 Obdicut

I'm not blaming securitization. I was blaming this particular case of securitization. I was blaming them pretending these securities did not carry risk that they did. Did you just miss me talking about risk or something?

The securitization of loans per se has absolutely no part in the meltdown. Faulty risk management paradigms, a blind faith in the liquidity of the market, and very human failings such as greed and complacency are at fault. The loans could have as easily been sold as portfolios of whole loans and the way risk was measured and priced would have doomed the whole undertaking. No institutional investor ever believed that even the most highly rated security bore "no risk". They chose to ignore the risk in the face of massive profits and a gaming of the risk capital and capital adequacy rules that were not being properly enforced in the first place. Ratings were used as a proxy for allocation of capital; a serious investor would have always analyzed the underlying risk. The massive losses of value in the securitized bonds were a reflection of the liquidity of the market. The actual performance of the bonds (losses of principle and interest) has actually been close to in line with expectations. It is the value of the actual bond that caused the trading losses of the banks.

albusteve Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:20:42am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

I have no reason not to vote for an Evangelical. I look at track record, ideas, policy, general non-sliminess factor (which includes getting the church and state, I'm not hiring you for Bible study leader concept). And party affiliation.

A politician's religious beliefs are exactly as much my business as he or she chooses to make them.

amen to that

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:21:38am

re: #88 HappyWarrior

Of course. But in a vaccum it doesn't bother me.

Cool. I've personally never lived in a vacuum, but to each their own.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:21:44am

Yes, I am in a good mood today.

Youtube Video

Man, GEMA purged YT of anything but live versions of songs.

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:21:54am

re: #64 Gus 802

No but one can certainly blame a suspension system design, faulty tires, transmissions, and throttle controllers. See Chevy, Audi and Toyota.

Absolutely. My point is that there are a lot of moving parts. I place a lot of blame at the feet of GWB, whose administration turned two blind eyes to regulatory abuses and failed to properly fund and upgrade the regulatory bodies.

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:22:44am

re: #91 b_sharp

Cool. I've personally never lived in a vacuum, but to each their own.

It's a breathtaking experience.

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:23:15am

re: #89 imp_62

Sure. It was the risk that was the problem. But the securitization of them is part of how that obfuscation of risk happened-- especially when the securities thus produced were then swapped and refolded ad infinitum. And I said, they pretended the risk wasn't there-- you're saying that they 'ignored' it.

I am perfectly willing to say that it was lack of risk assessment on the financial instruments that was the problem. Securitiziation has no inherent flaws, but it does make ignoring risk easier.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:23:57am

re: #84 Rightwingconspirator

Geez it's another screaming memes episode.

WHAT?!?!

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:24:57am

re: #96 000G

Screaming Meme?

Nope, just Chuck Testa.

darthstar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:25:28am

I love the way that woman smiles at him when he gets in her face and points with both hands...as if to say, "Control yourself, asshole."

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:26:16am

re: #98 darthstar

And how, in his 'I'm not sorry but I'm sorry' email, he talks about her smiling as though it shows that everything was okay, because people never smile when anything's wrong.

100

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:26:19am

re: #94 imp_62

It's a breathtaking experience.

I'm hypoventilating just thinking about it.

101

Varek Raith Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:27:19am

re: #99 Obdicut

And how, in his 'I'm not sorry but I'm sorry' email, he talks about her smiling as though it shows that everything was okay, because people never smile when anything's wrong.

Passive aggressive.
;)

102

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:27:41am

re: #95 Obdicut

Sure. It was the risk that was the problem. But the securitization of them is part of how that obfuscation of risk happened-- especially when the securities thus produced were then swapped and refolded ad infinitum. And I said, they pretended the risk wasn't there-- you're saying that they 'ignored' it.

I am perfectly willing to say that it was lack of risk assessment on the financial instruments that was the problem. Securitiziation has no inherent flaws, but it does make ignoring risk easier.

Hmmm. We are both getting old - it usually takes us a lot longer to agree.
I think that it is a cop-out when people (not yourself, in this instance) blame a complex process for a failure. It makes it far too easy to avoid blaming people - akin to someone saying "the gas pedal stuck! It wasn't my fault!" when really they should never have been at the wheel. In investment banking in the last 20 years, there were a lot of people who had no business "at the wheel".

103

jaunte Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:28:00am

Romney on Personhood amendment: "Absolutely!"

Youtube Video

104

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:29:02am

Sharon Bialek: Yes Herman Cain Knows Me. No I Didn’t Hug Him

105

darthstar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:29:27am

re: #103 jaunte

Romney on Personhood amendment: "Absolutely!"

[Video]

He wouldn't be saying that if it was his personhood that happened to be embedded in a uterus not his wife's.

106

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:29:55am

re: #102 imp_62

Yeah, I'm not blaming the process, but how the process was used. It's like-- heh, to Godwin this totally unnecessarily-- if I said it was Hitler's invasion of Russia that caused the most problems for Germany in WWII. There's nothing wrong with invasions per se, but when they're done badly, without accurate risk assessment, boy do they fuck your shit up and you wind up shooting yourself in a bunker and then becoming a laughingstock through an internet meme.

107

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:31:09am

re: #95 Obdicut

Sure. It was the risk that was the problem.

It wasn't even the risk. There's always risk. You cannot get rid of it.

What you can do is insure yourself against it, especially when it comes to loans: Making sure each party has something to fall back on in case things don't work out and default happens.

People didn't get that this is what every owner of debt titles needs to do if he doesn't want those titles to drag his own books into the dumpster. People didn't get that what to them was being lauded and priced in promising black numbers was actually deep in the red and could only with meticulous work and engagement perhaps some day, far in the future, get turned into a plus.

People got scammed. Hard.

108

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:31:22am

re: #106 Obdicut

Yeah, I'm not blaming the process, but how the process was used. It's like-- heh, to Godwin this totally unnecessarily-- if I said it was Hitler's invasion of Russia that caused the most problems for Germany in WWII. There's nothing wrong with invasions per se, but when they're done badly, without accurate risk assessment, boy do they fuck your shit up and you wind up shooting yourself in a bunker and then becoming a laughingstock through an internet meme.

You could have used Napoleon invading Russia and ending up dead on Elba with your penis in a box. Benefit of both avoiding Godwin and writing "penis in a box".

109

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:31:24am

Oh for crying out loud.

Obama Administration to Delay New 15-Cent Christmas Tree ‘Fee’

The U.S. Department of Agriculture is going to delay implementation and revisit a proposed new 15 cent fee on fresh-cut Christmas trees, sources tell ABC News. The fee, requested by the National Christmas Tree Association in 2009, was first announced in the Federal Registry yesterday and has generated criticism of President Obama from conservative media outlets. The well-trafficked Drudge Report is leading with the story, linking to a blog by David Addington, a former top aide to then-Vice President David Addington, at the conservative Heritage Foundation assailing the president thus: “The economy is barely growing and nine percent of the American people have no jobs. Is a new tax on Christmas trees the best President Obama can do? And, by the way, the American Christmas tree has a great image that doesn’t need any help from the government.”...

Delay? Weak.

110

Randall Gross Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:31:57am

Now there's a bunch of bileous puke. Hey, deadbeat dad -- if you have to raise your voice then you lost the argument, whether it's with the children you no longer support, or the constituents you don't listen to.

111

Simply Sarah Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:32:21am

re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sharon Bialek: Yes Herman Cain Knows Me. No I Didn’t Hug Him

I love how we have opposing defenses, with him saying "I never saw her before in my life." and then others saying "She was hugging him just a couple of months ago!"

112

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:33:09am

re: #95 Obdicut

Securitiziation has no inherent flaws, but it does make ignoring risk easier.

The very concept is monstrous and deceitful.

113

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:33:30am

Well, folks - just when it is getting interesting, I have to go bring my daughter to a doctor appointment. BBL.

114

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:33:50am

re: #113 imp_62

Well, folks - just when it is getting interesting, I have to go bring my daughter to a doctor appointment. BBL.

Here's hoping the appointment isn't interesting. That's bad. Boring is good.

115

Lidane Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:34:15am

re: #103 jaunte

Romney on Personhood amendment: "Absolutely!"

More proof that Romney has no principles to speak of. He only said it to try and bolster his socon bonafides, but the base doesn't buy anything he says so I don't know why he bothers.

116

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:34:31am

RightWingWatch MA
@RWwatchMA RightWingWatch MA
Gateway Pundit's Jim Hoft said "Christmas Tree Tax" illustrated that "Barack Obama hates Christians." [Link: t.co...] #tcot #p2

117

Kragar Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:34:54am

Cain Campaign announces new theme song:

Youtube Video

118

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:35:49am

re: #58 imp_62

This is a gross oversimplification. Failures of risk management, unwillingness to properly enforce regulation, risk-blind government policy and overall rampant greed on the part of certain issuers and investors all had a role in the collapse of the mortgage market. Blaming a financial process - securitization - is like blaming an engine for a car crash.

But it's slightly harder to hurt yourself if the car is not capable of 180mph...

;)

119

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:35:59am

re: #112 000G

The very concept is monstrous and deceitful.

The most recent incarnation was, perhaps. But the basis of securitization is the bundling of like financial assets, the allocation and pricing of risks according to investor appetites, and the subsequent ability of the seller of risk to free up capital and balance sheet capacity. It is no more heinous than sale/lease back arrangements for buildings or capital assets. A knife can slice bread or open a vein. Don't blame the knife.

120

Lidane Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:36:04am

re: #116 Gus 802

In related news, everything that Dim Hoft posts illustrates that he hates common sense and reason.

121

Targetpractice Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:36:05am

re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sharon Bialek: Yes Herman Cain Knows Me. No I Didn’t Hug Him

It's been hilarious to watch the merry-go-round that is trying to sully this woman. Cain says he's never seen nor talked to her, but eyewitness says he did and she hugged him, before she says there was no hug and recognized her.

122

Bulworth Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:36:16am

Yes but will someone please save us from the Obama Christmas Tree Tax??!?!?!?!??!!?!????!?

//wingnut daily outrage//

123

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:36:17am

re: #103 jaunte

Romney on Personhood amendment: "Absolutely!"

[Video]

It's not just the zygote, or the gametes who want legal person-hood, even my penis wants to be its own person.

124

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:36:28am

re: #114 EmmmieG

Here's hoping the appointment isn't interesting. That's bad. Boring is good.

Routine 15 year check up. Thanks for the thoughtful comment.

125

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:36:39am

re: #116 Gus 802

Heh. The point of the tax was to increase sales of Christmas trees.

Dim Hoft dimmer by the dim day.

126

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:36:57am

re: #120 Lidane

In related news, everything that Dim Hoft posts illustrates that he hates common sense and reason.

This is a big deal with the right wing today. I mean this bullshit has exploded and it's even the headline at Drudge.

127

jaunte Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:37:41am

re: #126 Gus 802

It's big because it has 'Christmas' in the title.

128

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:37:48am

re: #119 imp_62

The most recent incarnation was, perhaps. But the basis of securitization is the bundling of like financial assets, the allocation and pricing of risks according to investor appetites, and the subsequent ability of the seller of risk to free up capital and balance sheet capacity. It is no more heinous than sale/lease back arrangements for buildings or capital assets. A knife can slice bread or open a vein. Don't blame the knife.

Again with the deceit: There are no assets. It's all debt-pooling.

129

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:37:49am

re: #125 Obdicut

Heh. The point of the tax was to increase sales of Christmas trees.

Dim Hoft dimmer by the dim day.

I know. I found out about that last night withing 10 seconds of reading the initial comment regarding the wingnut outrage. I can't believe it. I also can't believe that the White House is caving like this.

130

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:38:01am

re: #118 oaktree

But it's slightly harder to hurt yourself if the car is not capable of 180mph...

;)

With adequate training, it would be manageable. You can't put Granny Weatherwax behind the wheel of a Bugatti and send her over to WalMart, and then blame the Italians when she hits a wall at 200mph.

131

Simply Sarah Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:38:26am

re: #129 Gus 802

I know. I found out about that last night withing 10 seconds of reading the initial comment regarding the wingnut outrage. I can't believe it. I also can't believe that the White House is caving like this.

Really? I totally can.

132

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:39:55am

re: #128 000G

Again with the deceit: There are no assets. It's all debt-pooling.

I'm sorry, I misspoke. There are assets: Bailout money.

133

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:40:01am

re: #111 Simply Sarah

I love how we have opposing defenses, with him saying "I never saw her before in my life." and then others saying "She was hugging him just a couple of months ago!"

The left hand knows not what the right hand does and what the middle hand wants.

Sidebar:
She may have hugged him, but did she cop a feel?
Somehow I doubt that.

134

Obdicut Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:40:19am

re: #128 000G

Again with the deceit: There are no assets. It's all debt-pooling.

Well, the houses are the assets-- which were certain to tank in value in the exact same circumstances where the mortgages themselves would.

135

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:40:20am

re: #128 000G

Again with the deceit: There are no assets. It's all debt-pooling.

If I own debt (a loan I made or a loan I purchased) then it is an asset on my balance sheet. If I borrow money, I have a liability. Owned debt is a financial asset. If you disagree with this, take it up with FAS and the economic council.

136

shutdown Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:40:32am

gotta run

137

Gus Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:40:50am

Oh. And on the topic of Joe Walsh. Imagine what his ex-wife had to deal with while she was married to this asshole?

138

jaunte Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:41:30am

re: #137 Gus 802

Back when he was younger and more foolish?

139

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:42:52am

re: #130 imp_62

With adequate training, it would be manageable. You can't put Granny Weatherwax behind the wheel of a Bugatti and send her over to WalMart, and then blame the Italians when she hits a wall at 200mph.

There would be no wall there if it was Granny Weatherwax.

140

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:46:17am

re: #125 Obdicut

Heh. The point of the tax was to increase sales of Christmas trees.

Dim Hoft dimmer by the dim day.

But True Christians (tm) don't like the secular bits that detract from celebrating Jesus. Therefore, the tax to support increased Christmas tree sales is an attack on True Christmas and thus anti-Christian.
(Though I bet Hoft missed that angle since his brain locked up on the word "tax".)

141

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:48:13am

re: #139 b_sharp

There would be no wall there if it was Granny Weatherwax.

I'd vote for Granny Weatherwax ahead of Cain.

142

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:48:34am

re: #124 imp_62

Routine 15 year check up. Thanks for the thoughtful comment.

Don't forget the vaccinations!

143

General Nimrod Bodfish Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:48:40am

Something interesting to ponder (OT):
Did video rob convicted child rapist James Buie of his Constitutional rights?

LANSING – Did technology overrule justice in the case of James Buie who was convicted in 2007 of the 2001 rape of a 9- and 13-year-old girl?

The State Supreme Court will hear arguments Thursday from Assistant Kent County Prosecutor Timothy McMorrow and state defender Jonathan Sacks on opposite sides of the dispute over whether that was the case with the live-via-video testimony of a child abuse expert from Detroit and a DNA expert from Virginia during Buie's trial.

Sacks will argue that because the testimony was not done in person, it robbed Buie of his Constitutional right to confront witnesses.

McMorrow will argue that Buie, through his attorney Valarie Foster, consented to the use of the technology and, since it was live and two-way, had every opportunity to question the experts.

IMO, since the video was live and two-way, it shouldn't violate the defendants right to confront his accusers/witnesses, unless there was restrictions against cross-examination of said accusers/witnesses. We'll see how the MI Supreme Court rules.

144

funky chicken Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:48:43am

re: #103 jaunte

Romney on Personhood amendment: "Absolutely!"

[Video]

youcannotbeserious

pathetic

145

Lidane Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:48:53am

re: #126 Gus 802

This is a big deal with the right wing today. I mean this bullshit has exploded and it's even the headline at Drudge.

Of course it is. It distracts the idiots and rubes from the Herman Cain fail and gets them back to hating Obama.

146

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:49:27am

re: #141 oaktree

I'd vote for Granny Weatherwax ahead of Cain.

I'd vote for Nanny Ogg twice as often.

147

funky chicken Wed, Nov 9, 2011 11:54:42am

re: #109 Gus 802

Oh for crying out loud.

Obama Administration to Delay New 15-Cent Christmas Tree ‘Fee’

Delay? Weak.

Um. They're doing massive hyperventilating over 15 cents?

I wouldn't have delayed it either. Let them absolutely lose their minds for 2 months over something this stupid. Every time they do it a few folks wake up from their weird "conservative" spell, IMHO.

148

makeitstop Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:00:28pm

re: #53 000G

Ladies & Gentlemen, this is what "Free Market" ideology produces: Anti-government radicals that hold government jobs yelling their resentments out at the top of their lungs, believing it's sound economics.

FTFY

149

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:03:44pm

re: #135 imp_62

If I own debt (a loan I made or a loan I purchased) then it is an asset on my balance sheet.

If you are a bank, it is. And now tell me on which side of the accounting sheet a bank puts its matching equities to balance it.

It's just accounting practices, imp_62. To make things look neat. It's got no inherent connection with the underlying reality. And it's dangerous for non-banks who do not understand it to overtake it.

150

dragonath Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:04:47pm

Jeez o whiz, I can see why you guys call this guy "Dim" Hoft. Besides, the concept of a christmas tree is pretty pagan to start with.

I like how all the right wingers are making it sound as if Obama himself imposed a tax unilaterally.

NEXT: OBAMA TAXES CHURCHES, KILLS GOD

151

dragonfire1981 Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:05:47pm

re: #8 HappyWarrior

I love how he acts like all this is the OBAMA government's fault but the banks are blameless. What a tool.

FTFY.

152

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:06:15pm

re: #134 Obdicut

Well, the houses are the assets-- which were certain to tank in value in the exact same circumstances where the mortgages themselves would.

The houses weren't owned by the people owing the debt in the first place: The home-buyers. By the time they would have payed down their mortgage they would have then owned the house. Until then, they owned their houses no more than the people who rent own their appartments (they only possessed them more).

153

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:13:29pm

re: #152 000G

The houses weren't owned by the people owing the debt in the first place: The home-buyers. By the time they would have payed down their mortgage they would have then owned the house. Until then, they owned their houses barely more than the people who rent own their appartments.

Except they own it enough to claim any equity as their own.

154

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:14:00pm

of course the GOP doesn't care about the deficit!

155

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:18:12pm

re: #153 b_sharp

Except they own it enough to claim any equity as their own.

"Home equity" is another one of those scam terms.

156

b_sharp Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:30:47pm

re: #155 000G

"Home equity" is another one of those scam terms.

A friend bought a house 7 years ago for $60,000.00. The value now in the local market is $300,000.00. If they sell it today, they walk away with $300,000.00 - (remaining mortgage amount + taxes and fees). I bet that money would not feel like a scam.

157

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:45:29pm

...

158

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:49:36pm

re: #156 b_sharp

A friend bought a house 7 years ago for $60,000.00. The value now in the local market is $300,000.00. If they sell it today, they walk away with $300,000.00 - (remaining mortgage amount + taxes and fees). I bet that money would not feel like a scam.

If the mortgage holder lets them sell it. If there is still a lien on the property, it is not legally theirs to sell without consent of the lien holder. Or maybe it is – your crazy laws seem to allow a boatload of insane stuff.

159

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:53:31pm

And the whole argument about home equity in connection with the subprime mortgage market is ludicrous to begin with: How much home equity did the people owing those mortgages really ever have, hm?

It's an irrelevant point.

160

BongCrodny Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:32:30pm

"I need more coffee."

"I think you've had too much."

That exchange right there might be the most awesome Congressman-constitutent dialogue ever.

161

BongCrodny Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:34:57pm

re: #141 oaktree