John McCain ‘Very Disappointed’ by GOP Debate

“Waterboarding is torture”
Politics • Views: 31,264

Unfortunately, it’s no longer shocking to hear Republican presidential candidates enthusiastically endorse the use of torture to gain information from terror suspects. At Saturday’s debate, the audience erupted in applause each time a candidate promised to waterboard the hell out of Al Qaeda.

After that spectacle, Sen. John McCain was moved to tweet:

Very disappointed by statements at SC GOP debate supporting waterboarding. Waterboarding is torture.

President Obama also criticized this rush to embrace torture:

Obama also criticised the Republicans candidates on Monday.

“They’re wrong. Waterboarding is torture. It’s contrary to America’s traditions. It’s contrary to our ideals,” the president said.

“If we want to lead around the world, part of our leadership is setting a good example. Anybody who has actually read about and understands the practice of waterboarding would say that that is torture. That’s not something we do.”

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387 comments
1 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:24:31pm

AMERICAFUCKYEAHism.

2 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:24:51pm

Torture? Watching another GOP debate, that's torture.
///

More seriously, the no torture edict should have all the weight of the first amendment at the very least. Silence a man and you hurt him today. Torture a man and you hurt your self, your nation and him forever.

3 Olsonist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:26:08pm

Didn't this idiot start the ball rolling with Palin?

4 Altermite  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:26:33pm

Good on McCain. That said, it shouldn't be necessary for members of the GOP to experience torture before they decide it isn't okay.

5 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:26:39pm

John McCain disappointed with GOP...

In other news Doctor Fredrick Fronkenstine disappointed with behavior of his greatest creation...

6 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:26:39pm

Whatever else I may say about McCain, kudos to him for the firm and principled anti-torture stand. As well as to Huntsman.

Obama's words, however, sound a bit empty. If w/b is torture, then act on it. Investigate. Prosecute.

7 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:28:39pm

re: #5 jamesfirecat

Pssst. Pencil?

8 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:30:26pm

re: #7 Rightwingconspirator

Pssst. Pencil?

Sorry I haz dumb tonight what did I do wrong in that post?

9 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:32:02pm

re: #8 jamesfirecat

Wasn't that Frankenstein? Or is there a Fronkenstein I never heard of?

10 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:32:40pm

Interview with a Torturer:

@8min
Rachel Maddow: Did you think of it as torture at the time?

Tony Lagouranis: I didn't really think of it as torture. I certainly do now.

...

@10min 50sec
Tony Lagouranis: It's counter productive to make the person that you're trying to get talk to you hate you. Torture, in my experience having used torture quite extensively as an interrogator, it does not work.

Rachel Maddow: Why do it then?

Tony Lagouranis: I think often we use torture because we're frustrated, because we're angry. It's not necessarily about getting intelligence, it's not about being productive.

Fort Hunt's Quiet Men Break Silence on WWII

"We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture," said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess.

11 The Mountain That Blogs  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:33:15pm

re: #9 Rightwingconspirator

Think that's a Young Frankenstein reference. The original first name was Victor.

12 jaunte  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:33:27pm

January 21, 1968:

US Soldier Convicted of Waterboarding North Vietnamese Prisoner
The Washington Post runs a front-page photo of a US soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier. The caption says the technique induced “a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk.” Because of the photo, the US Army initiates an investigation, and the soldier is court-martialed and convicted of torturing a prisoner.

13 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:34:21pm

re: #11 The Mountain That Blogs

Oh... Duh. My bad.

14 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:34:34pm

re: #9 Rightwingconspirator

Wasn't that Frankenstein? Or is there a Fronkenstein I never heard of?

Well why shouldn't it be Frodrick then?

15 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:35:26pm

re: #14 jamesfirecat

Sorry dude.

16 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:36:46pm

too lazy to make a page, good read tho'

[Link: www.newscientist.com...]

Systems analysis of the ownership and business links between the biggest transnationals and how much of the economy they control.

17 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:38:54pm

Of course he's disappointed. Because he looks at the mannequins and lunatics up on that stage and realizes that one of them will have a better shot at the presidency than he ever did. 2008 was just the wrong year to be the gop nom.

18 freetoken  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:41:46pm

re: #16 windsagio

I take issue with the underlying conspiratorial mindset behind the NewScientist article:

The study's assumptions have attracted some criticism, but complex systems analysts contacted by New Scientist say it is a unique effort to untangle control in the global economy. Pushing the analysis further, they say, could help to identify ways of making global capitalism more stable.

The idea that a few bankers control a large chunk of the global economy might not seem like news to New York's Occupy Wall Street movement and protesters elsewhere (see photo). But the study, by a trio of complex systems theorists at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, is the first to go beyond ideology to empirically identify such a network of power. It combines the mathematics long used to model natural systems with comprehensive corporate data to map ownership among the world's transnational corporations (TNCs).

[...]

19 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:42:51pm

re: #18 freetoken

get down to the bottom >

One thing won't chime with some of the protesters' claims: the super-entity is unlikely to be the intentional result of a conspiracy to rule the world. "Such structures are common in nature," says Sugihara.

Newcomers to any network connect preferentially to highly connected members. TNCs buy shares in each other for business reasons, not for world domination. If connectedness clusters, so does wealth, says Dan Braha of NECSI: in similar models, money flows towards the most highly connected members. The Zurich study, says Sugihara, "is strong evidence that simple rules governing TNCs give rise spontaneously to highly connected groups". Or as Braha puts it: "The Occupy Wall Street claim that 1 per cent of people have most of the wealth reflects a logical phase of the self-organising economy."

So, the super-entity may not result from conspiracy. The real question, says the Zurich team, is whether it can exert concerted political power. Driffill feels 147 is too many to sustain collusion. Braha suspects they will compete in the market but act together on common interests. Resisting changes to the network structure may be one such common interest.

20 freetoken  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:44:42pm

re: #19 windsagio

Oh, the people doing the work tried to avoid the conspiracy stuff. But the fixation by the NewScientist author on "control" shows the problem with deep set memes. It's like when a scientist describes some aspect of animal physiology as "created" - it's left-over language from a previous worldview.

It's hard to break old habits, and our language is full of examples.

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:45:27pm

re: #3 Olsonist

Didn't this idiot start the ball rolling with Palin?

It was a mistake, and he's got to live with it...just be glad we don't have her as VP.

22 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:46:29pm

re: #11 The Mountain That Blogs

Think that's a Young Frankenstein reference. The original first name was Victor.

I think I just got your handle reference for the first time. George R.R. Martin reader?

23 freetoken  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:48:33pm

re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #3 Olsonist

Didn't this idiot start the ball rolling with Palin?

Heh, we all make mistakes.

But it's a good point. Yet I've got to believe that he was just desperate for approval by the GOP "base" which he knew wanted fresh blood.

24 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:48:52pm

re: #18 freetoken

I take issue with the underlying conspiratorial mindset behind the NewScientist article:

My family uses the meme "A Conspiracy of Hogs". Before every sundown the farmer brings a bucket of slops to the trough. The hogs act together in single-minded purpose. Conspiracy? We report..you decide.

25 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:54:14pm

Obama's method of blacksites and rendition works better anyways. At least it keeps things out of the headlines.

26 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:54:22pm

re: #3 Olsonist

Didn't this idiot start the ball rolling with Palin?

Think of it like this. If he had made a great pick, he'd be President. Worked out okay in the end, no?

27 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:55:19pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Obama's method of blacksites and rendition works better anyways. At least it keeps things out of the headlines.

Does he have the patent on that?

28 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:55:36pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Obama's method of blacksites and rendition works better anyways. At least it keeps things out of the headlines.

Hm. About that sunset clause on the Patriot act. It should take a supermajority to renew. But that's not gonna be rolled back ever.

29 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:56:28pm

BTW, have we ever heard from Bin Laden's wives and children since the raid? I wonder what ever became of them. His son, and heir apparent to the Al Qaeda throne, also went missing during the raid. Strange he hasn't popped up somewhere.
/

30 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:57:14pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

Does he have the patent on that?

Nah, he just went back to the pre-Bush method.

31 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:58:21pm

re: #28 Rightwingconspirator

Hm. About that sunset clause on the Patriot act. It should take a supermajority to renew. But that's not gonna be rolled back ever.

Probably not.

32 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 5:59:58pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Probably not.

Might. It'll be the third plank in the OWS Party platform.

33 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:00:24pm

Drone Ackbar!
US drone strike kills three militants in Pakistan

A US drone strike targeting a militant compound killed three militants in the tribal region of North Waziristan near the Afghan border on Tuesday, security officials said.

The strike took place in Miranshah Bazaar, Miranshah. The area is known as a strong bastion of Taliban and al Qaeda linked militants.

Too late, we can't waterboard them now.

34 Amory Blaine  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:00:58pm

Packers kickin butt. 14-00

35 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:03:00pm

re: #32 Decatur Deb

Might. It'll be the third plank in the OWS Party platform.

MAybe but doubtful. The old antiwar nuts are still there but the OWS message is so muddled they could include the plight of the Southern Crested Wood Tit and nobody would notice.

36 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:04:26pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

MAybe but doubtful. The old antiwar nuts are still there but the OWS message is so muddled they could include the plight of the Southern Crested Wood Tit and nobody would notice.

You got something against the Southern Crested Wood Tit?

37 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:05:05pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Drone Ackbar!
US drone strike kills three militants in Pakistan

Too late, we can't waterboard them now.

Drone Ackbar, indeed.

38 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:05:52pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

MAybe but doubtful. The old antiwar nuts are still there but the OWS message is so muddled they could include the plight of the Southern Crested Wood Tit and nobody would notice.

This might be 1966 for the OWS kids. By 1970 they'll have their act together. Just in time for the 2016 elections.

39 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:06:04pm

re: #37 Cannadian Club Akbar

Drone Ackbar, indeed.

OMG! The Southern Crested Wood Tit!

40 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:06:37pm

re: #36 SanFranciscoZionist

You got something against the Southern Crested Wood Tit?

DO NOT start another boob thread.

41 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:07:02pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

This might be 1966 for the OWS kids. By 1970 they'll have their act together. Just in time for the 2016 elections.

Kucinich-Pet Rock 2016!
Sock it to me!

42 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:07:18pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

OMG! The Southern Crested Wood Tit!

With a smokin' ass!!

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:07:25pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

This might be 1966 for the OWS kids. By 1970 they'll have their act together. Just in time for the 2016 elections.

Definitely not kids. We've established that on the previous thread. At least not 'just a bunch of kids'.

44 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:07:39pm

re: #40 Decatur Deb

start another boob thread.

OK

45 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:07:39pm

Killgore Trout is badass, he doesn't give a shit. Ooh, that's nasty.

46 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:08:02pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Kucinich-Pet Rock 2016!
Sock it to me!

Isn't that redundant?

47 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:08:51pm

re: #34 Amory Blaine

Packers kickin butt. 14-00

Too soon

Vikes are moving now

48 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:09:09pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

Definitely not kids. We've established that on the previous thread. At least not 'just a bunch of kids'.

(Pssst. Neither were they in 1966, but it's a hopeful meme.)

49 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:09:14pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Waterboarding and military action have nothing to do with each other, though.

The point of killing people is to kill them. The point of torturing people is to get information out of them. It's a stupid tactic, since other interrogative methods work better, and because in order to do it you need torturers. A torturer is a lot more twisted thing than a soldier is.

50 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:09:31pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

Too soon

Vikes are moving now

To L.A.?

51 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:10:09pm

re: #50 Cannadian Club Akbar

To L.A.?

Lower Alabama???

52 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:10:51pm

re: #49 Obdicut

Torturer is an enemy of mankind. It's really simple. Torturers and those who authorize torture should be prosecuted and imprisoned without exception.

53 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:10:58pm

re: #51 sattv4u2

Lower Alabama???

Deb's buying the Vikes?

54 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:11:02pm

What's up? Brought my G.I. Joe with me and some toy planes. Let's play war now shall we?

55 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:11:26pm

re: #51 sattv4u2

Lower Alabama???

Minnesota? We don't need hockey here.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:11:37pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Kucinich-Pet Rock 2016!
Sock it to me!

Well, that's a safer VP pick than many...

57 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:11:48pm

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

Deb's buying the Vikes?

he just wants a free Image: vikinghelmet.gif

58 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:11:54pm

re: #45 BigPapa

Killgore Trout is badass, he doesn't give a shit. Ooh, that's nasty.

He's a warrior! Just like Bill O'Reilly.

//

59 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:12:32pm

re: #54 Gus 802

What's up? Brought my G.I. Joe with me and some toy planes. Let's play war now shall we?

Why does yours have his hands raised over his head??
/

60 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:12:45pm

re: #54 Gus 802

What's up? Brought my G.I. Joe with me and some toy planes. Let's play war now shall we?

We're doing football. Go get your Quarterback Ken.

61 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:13:02pm

re: #57 sattv4u2

he just wants a free Image: vikinghelmet.gif

Or some of these.
[Link: www.vikings.com...]

62 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:13:21pm

re: #59 sattv4u2

Why does yours have his hands raised over his head??
/

Freedom fries baby! Freedom fries!

So when do the French jokes start over again?

//

63 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:14:00pm

re: #52 Sergey Romanov

Torturer is an enemy of mankind. It's really simple. Torturers and those who authorize torture should be prosecuted and imprisoned without exception.

If you're talking prison as punishment, you know that doesn't float my boat. I'm Mr. Rehabilitation.

And 'should' is a difficult word in this world. But I agree that that is one of the shoulds.

64 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:14:07pm

The 101st Fighting Keyboards fights again! Good times.

Pajamarines!

Derp.

65 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:14:52pm

Well, there I go with my radical anti-torture agenda.

/

66 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:15:29pm

re: #65 Sergey Romanov

Well, there I go with my radical anti-torture agenda.

/

You damn h-word person.

67 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:15:56pm

re: #63 Obdicut

If you're talking prison as punishment, you know that doesn't float my boat. I'm Mr. Rehabilitation.

And 'should' is a difficult word in this world. But I agree that that is one of the shoulds.

I'm not saying "for life", so maybe there would be rehabilitation. ;)

68 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:16:00pm

re: #49 Obdicut

Waterboarding and military action have nothing to do with each other, though.

The point of killing people is to kill them. The point of torturing people is to get information out of them. It's a stupid tactic, since other interrogative methods work better, and because in order to do it you need torturers. A torturer is a lot more twisted thing than a soldier is.

Well, I think in the days after 9-11 we were more interested in learning what Al Qaeda was up to. Once you capture somebody and interrogate them (regardless of method) you have to figure out what to do with them when you're done. Anyone we want intel from these days goes off to a secret prison of rendered to Lithuania or Thailand (or whatever) and nobody will ever know about it.
Today we have a good idea of what Al Qaeda is up to and even a big fish like Bin Laden can just be killed outright and it's not much of a problem.

69 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:16:13pm

bbiab

70 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:17:00pm

re: #58 Gus 802

He's a warrior! Just like Bill O'Reilly.

//

Great excuse to post this classic call:

71 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:17:56pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

My point was that torture is comparatively bad as an interrogation technique, anyway, so there's no reason it should ever even be considered. If we are sending people out for torture, then we're being fucking idiots.

72 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:18:07pm

Hey I'm curious? What's the pre-Bush method? Is that when you locate a target like terrorist Osama bin Laden and then refuse to bomb his location because an Arab prince is in the same camp as bin Laden and that same prince is from the UAE with a pending military contract with the USA?

//

73 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:18:31pm

Can we just agree that raping, torturing and stabbing are bad? Pretty please?

/

74 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:19:09pm

re: #72 Gus 802

Hey I'm curious? What's the pre-Bush method? Is that when you locate a target like terrorist Osama bin Laden and then refuse to bomb his location because an Arab prince is in the same camp as bin Laden and that same prince is from the UAE with a pending military contract with the USA?

//

SAVE THE QUAILS!!!!

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:20:00pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

Can we just agree that raping, torturing and stabbing are bad? Pretty please?

/

That's a lot to ask people to agree on, dude.

76 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:20:31pm

re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist

I knew I was too radical. Well, let's drop rape then. /

77 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:21:11pm

re: #76 Sergey Romanov

I knew I was too radical. Well, let's drop rape then. /

Done!

78 freetoken  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:21:34pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

But... but ... but... what will happen to OWS if we do that?

79 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:21:39pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

Done!

Well, that was easy.

80 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:21:43pm

All we need is Iron Fist back here and it'll be just like old times.

81 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:22:13pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

Can we just agree that raping, torturing and stabbing are bad? Pretty please?

/

Stabbing has its fans:

[Link: kitup.military.com...]

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:22:34pm

re: #76 Sergey Romanov

I knew I was too radical. Well, let's drop rape then. /

We should adopt the platform of the Standing At The Back, Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid Party. They're for free corsets for the under-fives, the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, and the abolition of slavery.

83 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:22:38pm

Alrighty. Fight nice, hooligans. See y'all in the morning.:)

84 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:22:58pm

re: #78 freetoken

But... but ... but... what will happen to OWS if we do that?

Theres always the diseases, the thefts, the wipingyourassonacopcars!!

85 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:22:58pm

re: #78 freetoken

But... but ... but... what will happen to OWS if we do that?

Maybe. Just maybe what we need to do is start waterboarding...

86 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:22:58pm

re: #78 freetoken

But... but ... but... what will happen to OWS if we do that?

(funny joke redacted)

87 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:23:45pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

Can we just agree that raping, torturing and stabbing are bad? Pretty please?

/

Anyone?..
Anyone?
Bueller?
/

88 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:23:49pm

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

Free corsets?
Where do I get in line?

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:24:30pm

re: #88 Floral Giraffe

Free corsets?
Where do I get in line?

Are you under five, madame?

90 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:25:18pm

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

We should adopt the platform of the Standing At The Back, Dressed Stupidly and Looking Stupid Party. They're for free corsets for the under-fives, the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, and the abolition of slavery.

Then who is going to pull the corset strings!?!?!
/

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:25:27pm

All you pro-rape, pro-stab, pro-torture lizards (i.e. those who didn't upding my comment) should be ashamed.

/

92 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:25:41pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

Can we just agree that raping, torturing and stabbing are bad? Pretty please?

/

Rapey Tortury Stabby does not flow like Rapey Stabby. It's.... tortured.

93 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:25:56pm

re: #90 sattv4u2

Then who is going to pull the corset strings!?!?!
/

Upding for GWTW.

95 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:26:19pm

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

All you pro-rape, pro-stab, pro-torture lizards (i.e. those who didn't upding my comment) should be ashamed.

/

Stop it! I'm trying to breath here!

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:26:39pm

re: #92 BigPapa

Sounds like some British lit personage.

97 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:27:07pm

re: #95 Gus 802

Stop it! I'm trying to breath here!

More water!

98 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:27:33pm

re: #93 Decatur Deb

Upding for GWTW.

Go
With
That
Woman
???
//

99 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:27:43pm

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain Says He Will ‘Trust The Judgement’ Of Military Leaders On Torture, But Then Ignores Military On Waterboarding

Hey, you've heard his stance on abortion...do you really expect any kind of consistency out of this guy?

100 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:27:52pm

re: #95 Gus 802

Stop it! I'm trying to breath here!

Do you need instructions on how?

101 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:28:06pm

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain Says He Will ‘Trust The Judgement’ Of Military Leaders On Torture, But Then Ignores Military On Waterboarding

Herman Cain forgot that Hermain Cain made that statement.

102 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:28:13pm

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

Are you under five, madame?

Physically or mentally?
LOL!

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:28:55pm

Herman Cain's family is going to be on Greta --

Why? Why? Why?

104 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:29:03pm

re: #101 McSpiff

Maybe there are two Herman Cains! That would explain a lot. He's identical twins, both named Herman.

105 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:29:11pm

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

I'm very pro spanking. And it wasn't on your list!

106 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:29:45pm

re: #105 Floral Giraffe

Hee hee. I'm not sure Sergey has really gotten to know you, Floral, and your little ways.

107 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:29:46pm

re: #105 Floral Giraffe

I'm very pro spanking. And it wasn't on your list!

Giving, or receiving?

108 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:29:56pm

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

All you pro-rape, pro-stab, pro-torture lizards (i.e. those who didn't upding my comment) should be ashamed.

/

Some of us are highly trained stabbers. The drill instructors had a wonderfully ungramattical spirit yell:

DI: "What is the spirit of the bayonet?"
All: "To kill."
Me: "To wound." (That's actually in keeping with modern USATRADOC doctrine.)

109 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:29:57pm

re: #105 Floral Giraffe

I'm very pro spanking. And it wasn't on your list!

Spanking, hmm. Well, it depends...

//

110 freetoken  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:30:05pm

re: #103 ggt

Herman Cain's family is going to be on Greta --

Why? Why? Why?

Because it sells, sells, sells.

111 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:30:21pm

re: #103 ggt

Herman Cain's family is going to be on Greta --

Why? Why? Why?

Yeah, they should have cancelled her show a long time ago.

//Watching Greta is what I imagine taking Lithium would be like.

//

112 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:30:34pm

re: #71 Obdicut

My point was that torture is comparatively bad as an interrogation technique, anyway, so there's no reason it should ever even be considered. If we are sending people out for torture, then we're being fucking idiots.

Like we send out the dry-cleaning?

I am so confused.

113 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:30:49pm

re: #106 Obdicut

Hee hee. I'm not sure Sergey has really gotten to know you, Floral, and your little ways.

*smooch*
Because.

114 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:31:00pm

re: #105 Floral Giraffe

Warning to everyone: This graphic is crude and silly. Don't click if you're a take offense person.

But when I saw it, it did make me think of you, Floral.

Image: spank-giraffe.gif

115 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:31:12pm

re: #108 Decatur Deb

Peacenik.

116 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:31:24pm

re: #111 Gus 802

Yeah, they should have cancelled her show a long time ago.

//Watching Greta is what I imagine taking Librium would be like.

//

YOu mean Lithium?

117 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:31:24pm

re: #98 sattv4u2

Go
With
That
Woman
???
//

You're in freakn' Georgia!! Gone With The Wind.

118 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:32:18pm

re: #117 Decatur Deb

You're in freakn' Georgia!! Gone With The Wind.

No, it wasn't windy at all today in Georgia

And I'm not gone ,,, YET!
/

119 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:32:26pm

GOP candidates endorse plan to force prisoners to watch nothing but reruns of GOP debates.

120 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:32:38pm

re: #114 Obdicut

OMFG. Favorited! Screaming with laughter, here.
You are the best!

121 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:32:49pm

re: #116 ggt

YOu mean Lithium?

I said Lithium! See take a look.

//

122 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:32:49pm

re: #116 ggt

YOu mean Lithium?

he takes batteries??

123 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:33:11pm

re: #98 sattv4u2

Go
With
That
Woman
???
//

Gamera won the war!

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:34:01pm

I just looked out of the window and saw Sarah Palin staring at me from her house. Doctor, will I live?/

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:34:16pm

re: #121 Gus 802

I said Lithium! See take a look.

//

You can't pencil my post!

126 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:34:37pm

re: #122 sattv4u2

he takes batteries??

Don't ask.

127 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:34:49pm

re: #125 ggt

You can't pencil my post!

hehehehe

ouch!!

128 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:35:09pm

Restoring Gun Rights to Felons

Every year, thousands of felons across the country have their gun rights reinstated, often with little or no review.

129 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:35:23pm

re: #115 Sergey Romanov

Peacenik.

"No VC ever called me Mackrel-snapper."

130 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:35:23pm

re: #125 ggt

You can't pencil my post!

Even after dinner and drinks??

//

131 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:35:34pm

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain Says He Will ‘Trust The Judgement’ Of Military Leaders On Torture, But Then Ignores Military On Waterboarding

You know..This is what really pisses me off about Cain..Every time he gets a tough question he tosses it off to getting briefed by his advisor's for action..He staffs the shit out.. Look Herman..America should only elect leaders..Not a well briefed pizza guy....

If JFK would have listened to his Military advisor's during the Cuban Missile crisis we would all probably be dead right now and the Earth a simmering piece of crust..He led America.. Not a crappy pizza joint Herman..
/rant off.. Newt you are next pal

132 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:35:44pm

re: #126 ggt

Don't ask.

Too late ,, I already DID !

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:37:05pm

I'm off again.

Well, never mind.

134 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:37:05pm

Documents: Felons and Guns

The Times examined data from courts across the country on convicted felons who had their firearms rights reinstated and reviewed hundreds of pages of documents associated with those cases. In many instances, people who got their gun rights back went on to commit new crimes. Here are court records associated with several people with felony convictions who had their firearms privileges restored. Related Article »

135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:37:40pm

re: #134 Gus 802

Documents: Felons and Guns

Don't Ask, Don't Enforce.

136 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:37:58pm
137 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:39:40pm

re: #131 HoosierHoops

You know..This is what really pisses me off about Cain..Every time he gets a tough question he tosses it off to getting briefed by his advisor's for action..He staffs the shit out.. Look Herman..America should only elect leaders..Not a well briefed pizza guy...

If JFK would have listened to his Military advisor's during the Cuban Missile crisis we would all probably be dead right now and the Earth a simmering piece of crust..He lead America.. Not a crappy pizza joint Herman..
/rant off.. Newt you are next pal

Plus, look at the jackasses he calls in for expert advice. Mark Block? A foreign policy guy who quotes Charlie Sheen? A computer expert who has software which can tell if someone is lying in a video?

138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:40:18pm

re: #136 BigPapa

Good. I see that the "too soon" limit has expired on some things ;)

139 freetoken  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:41:08pm

re: #136 BigPapa

If historical events had Facebook updates...

"God and the snake like this" - classic.

140 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:42:52pm

re: #136 BigPapa

If historical events had Facebook updates...

Good stuff in there.

141 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:43:25pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Drone Ackbar!
US drone strike kills three militants in Pakistan

Too late, we can't waterboard them now.

I am watching, and just don't understand how OWS made you push so hard for asshole status.

142 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:43:36pm

Anders Breivik admits to massacre, denies guilt

"I am a military commander in the Norwegian resistance movement and Knights Templar Norway," Breivik told the court.

It was the 32-year-old's first public utterance since he planted a car bomb on July 22 that killed eight people at an Oslo government building, then went on to shoot dead 69 more, most of them teenagers, at a Labour Party summer camp on the island of Utoeya.

"I acknowledge the acts, but I do not plead guilty," Breivik said, adding that he rejected the jurisdiction of the court because it "supports multiculturalism."

143 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:46:03pm

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anders Breivik admits to massacre, denies guilt

Well. Thats clear as mud.

144 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:46:50pm

re: #6 Sergey Romanov

Whatever else I may say about McCain, kudos to him for the firm and principled anti-torture stand. As well as to Huntsman.

Obama's words, however, sound a bit empty. If w/b is torture, then act on it. Investigate. Prosecute.

Not going to happen. Obama has deliberately refrained from attempting to bring charges against anyone in the Bush Administration. IMO, he has done this to ensure that the American tradition of a peaceful transition of power is not endangered. If officials feared they might be prosecuted by an incoming administration whose legal views differed greatly from the one in which they served, they might be inclined to try some sort of 3rd World-style power play. Barack Obama is far-sighted enough on this matter to understand that the need to make sure a change of parties holding the White House remains peaceful outweighs the benefits of prosecuting a few people you think were malefactors.

145 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:47:06pm
146 Lidane  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:47:15pm

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anders Breivik admits to massacre, denies guilt

If he was American he'd be one of those sovereign citizen nutjobs in Montana posting on Prison Planet and Free Republic. =P

147 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:47:44pm

re: #138 Sergey Romanov

Good. I see that the "too soon" limit has expired on some things ;)

Yeah, I thought the same thing. But the rest made me fuggedaboudit.

148 shecky  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:48:21pm
Obama also criticised the Republicans candidates on Monday.

“They’re wrong. Waterboarding is torture. It’s contrary to America’s traditions. It’s contrary to our ideals,” the president said.

“If we want to lead around the world, part of our leadership is setting a good example. Anybody who has actually read about and understands the practice of waterboarding would say that that is torture. That’s not something we do.”

This will convince the Republicans. To be double extra pro-torture11, since they seem to define themselves as the opposite of what Obama does. I think Obama should issue a statement against felching, just to have the GOP become the pro-felching party.

149 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:49:51pm

re: #148 shecky

Nobody google felching. This is important.

150 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:50:50pm

re: #149 Obdicut

Nobody google felching. This is important.

Considering the kind of stuff I've learned on the internet, how bad could it be?

///

151 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:51:55pm

re: #149 Obdicut

Nobody google felching. This is important.

or figging
or frotting

or basically any word beginning with "f" and ending in "ing"

152 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:52:03pm

if you GOOGLE GOOGLE, does it tell you to GOOGLE it?

153 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:52:26pm

re: #152 sattv4u2

if you GOOGLE GOOGLE, does it tell you to GOOGLE it?

(and I'm not going to try,,,,, I don;t want to end up in an endless loop)

154 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:52:51pm

re: #148 shecky

I think Obama should issue a statement against felching, just to have the GOP become the pro-felching party.

I believe thats a central platform of one of the smaller/niche swedish parties....

155 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:53:29pm

re: #154 wozzablog

I believe thats a central platform of one of the smaller/niche swedish parties...

That, and meatballs!

156 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:53:42pm

re: #152 sattv4u2

if you GOOGLE GOOGLE, does it tell you to GOOGLE it?

Don't Google me bro'!

157 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:53:55pm

and on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons

158 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:54:11pm

re: #152 sattv4u2

if you GOOGLE GOOGLE, does it tell you to GOOGLE it?

Nope, but google "do a barrel roll" or "askew" to see something cool...

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:54:18pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

Sure, I know, and I'm not deluded to think that anything will be done. However, there is that slogan, you know, "a land of laws and not of men". Fuggedaboutit.

160 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:54:20pm

re: #156 HoosierHoops

Don't Google me bro'!

Don't google my junk....

161 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:55:53pm

re: #151 wozzablog

or figging
or frotting

or basically any word beginning with "f" and ending in "ing"

"Fig" is in Romeo and Juliet, and it's still very dirty in Italy (figi).

162 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 6:58:35pm

GOP debates are torture.

163 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:00:49pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

Not going to happen. Obama has deliberately refrained from attempting to bring charges against anyone in the Bush Administration. IMO, he has done this to ensure that the American tradition of a peaceful transition of power is not endangered. If officials feared they might be prosecuted by an incoming administration whose legal views differed greatly from the one in which they served, they might be inclined to try some sort of 3rd World-style power play. Barack Obama is far-sighted enough on this matter to understand that the need to make sure a change of parties holding the White House remains peaceful outweighs the benefits of prosecuting a few people you think were malefactors.

Dark I think the idea that if you can outlast the clock of your own administration then you're safe for whatever you did in regards to a white house administration is setting a bad president.

Its not a black and white issue, both approaches have problems.

164 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:02:54pm

Lol I looked up felching!

165 jaunte  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:04:27pm

BBart getting up to pretend journalism again.

TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
BTW, the "murder at #OccupySavannah" that wasn't, was reported by MANAGING EDITOR of Breitbart's @BigGovt site. Had nothing to do w Occupy.


TheBradBlog Brad Friedman
.@AndrewBreitbart's pretend news site reports "murder at #OccupySavannah". Only prob, happened on other side of town:
[Link: www.thecoastalsource.com...]

166 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:04:48pm

re: #161 Decatur Deb

Fig is only dirty in Italian if you feminize the ending of the word.

167 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:04:58pm

re: #163 jamesfirecat

Dark I think the idea that if you can outlast the clock of your own administration then you're safe for whatever you did in regards to a white house administration is setting a bad president.

Its not a black and white issue, both approaches have problems.

Freudian slip? :)

168 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:07:17pm

Upate on Bin laden wives from just a few days ago: Pakistan may repatriate bin Laden's wives

169 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:07:50pm

re: #164 Stanley Sea

Lol I looked up felching!

"I looked at the trap Ray."

170 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:08:09pm

re: #141 Stanley Sea

I am watching, and just don't understand how OWS made you push so hard for asshole status.

The raping, stabbing, communists and anarchists. I thought I made that clear.

171 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:08:52pm

re: #166 Ojoe

Fig is only dirty in Italian if you feminize the ending of the word.

Has an accompanying gesture in the Veneto, the thumb thrust between the first two knuckles. I think it's in the driver's manual.

172 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:09:13pm

re: #149 Obdicut

Nobody google felching. This is important.

It's no worse than Santorum. And everybody googles Santorum--just for fun--even when they already know what it means.

173 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:09:21pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

The raping, stabbing, communists and anarchists. I thought I made that clear.

With friends like these (and Mikey Moore/Sheehan/Kos) the Dems don't need enemies. The Democratic party is a self-sinking ship.

//

174 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:09:37pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

"I looked at the trap Ray."

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

175 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:10:00pm

re: #172 palomino

It's no worse than Santorum. And everybody googles Santorum--just for fun--even when they already know what it means.

for shits and giggles?...

176 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:10:31pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

"I looked at the trap Ray."

ITS A TRAP!

177 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:12:21pm

This one cracks me up:

This is why Dems can't/won't win in the south. Elitist rhetoric and labeling southerners as racisist isn't going to sway the votes of those who drive pickuptrucks and work for a living.

178 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:13:01pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

The raping, stabbing, communists and anarchists. I thought I made that clear.

Were you always cheering waterboarding?

179 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:13:13pm

re: #173 Gus 802

//

So Dems are sinking and Gopers going off the rails? Oh no, our 2-party system is broken, ineffectual, polarized, self-serving, mostly useless. What else is new?

180 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:13:29pm

re: #163 jamesfirecat

Dark I think the idea that if you can outlast the clock of your own administration then you're safe for whatever you did in regards to a white house administration is setting a bad president.

Its not a black and white issue, both approaches have problems.

Not a lot of a lot of good options on this one, James. Things are fairly polarized right now, and indictments of the previous administration could quickly become politicized. It's more important right now to keep the peace.

And the above point about keeping the peace goes double if any Republican succeeds President Obama, in 2013 or 2017. such a President will be under pressure to punish those considered responsible for unconstitutional or "socialist" policies, and must resist that pressure. It is imperative that neither party feel that its leaders must either hold power or risk prison, for that way lies the end of democracy.

181 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:13:37pm

Radical wingnut propaganda smear artists report OWS connection in shooting near the White House...
Police Search McPherson Square Occupy Camp For Oscar Ramiro Ortega

Police in the nation's capital searched the Occupy D.C. encampment in McPherson Square on Monday for a 21-year-old man wanted in Friday night's incident where gunfire was reported near the White House.

As the Washington Examiner reported, U.S. Park Police officers conducted a "sweep" of the park and were seen pulling an Occupy protester out of a tent and questioning him.

That search was unsuccessful, The Associated Press reported. Park Police Sgt. David Schlosser told the AP that callers informed police that a man matching the description of Oscar Ramiro Ortega was seen in the park, located two blocks north of the White House.

On Sunday, an arrest warrant was issued for Oretga, a man whom police have linked to Friday night's incident near the White House were reports of gunfire prompted police to shutdown Constitution Avenue NW and streets adjacent to it.

182 Altermite  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:14:02pm

re: #179 palomino

So Dems are sinking and Gopers going off the rails? Oh no, our 2-party system is broken, ineffectual, polarized, self-serving, mostly useless. What else is new?

Well, somebody recently told me the pope is catholic.

183 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:14:08pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

The raping, stabbing, communists and anarchists. I thought I made that clear.

Psychologically they were older, better established, and resisted innovation.
They felt that resistance to the Crown—the legitimate government—was morally wrong.
They were alienated when the Patriots resorted to violence, such as burning houses and tarring and feathering.
They wanted to take a middle-of-the road position and were angry when forced by the Patriots to declare their opposition.
They had a long-standing sentimental attachment to Britain (often with business and family links).
They were procrastinators who realized that independence was bound to come some day, but wanted to postpone the moment.
They were rightly cautious and afraid of the anarchy stemming from mob rule, which did cost many their property and security after the revolution.
Some say they were pessimists who lacked the confidence in the future displayed by the Patriots, while others point to the memory and dreadful experience of many Scottish immigrants who had already seen or paid the price of rebellion in dispossession and clearance from their prior homeland

184 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:17:08pm

re: #182 Altermite

Well, somebody recently told me the pope is catholic.

Not this Pope. Secret Muslim all the way.

185 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:17:41pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Yawn. Yawn again.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:17:49pm

re: #116 ggt

YOu mean Lithium?

Librium.

There's a scene in Out On Blue Six where the former Elector of the Great City of Yu explains that your job as Elector is to maintain the equilibrium of the city. Equilibrium, he explains, is an ancient word, derived from two other ancient words, 'equi', meaning equal amounts, and 'librium', which is the name of tranquilizer.

187 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:20:03pm

re: #186 SanFranciscoZionist

Librium.

There's a scene in Out On Blue Six where the former Elector of the Great City of Yu explains that your job as Elector is to maintain the equilibrium of the city. Equilibrium, he explains, is an ancient word, derived from two other ancient words, 'equi', meaning equal amounts, and 'librium', which is the name of tranquilizer.

Back-jacking to the Jewish humor thread, did anyone bring this?

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:20:14pm

re: #172 palomino

It's no worse than Santorum. And everybody googles Santorum--just for fun--even when they already know what it means.

His campaign acknowledges that he has a Google problem.

189 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:21:03pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

"I looked at the trap Ray."

Frank, when someone asks if you're an Internet God, you say YES!

190 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:21:31pm

Manhunt Underway For Suspected Shooter Near White House; Oscar Ramiro Ortega Has Criminal Record

Hours before shots were fired near the White House Friday night, Arlington Police actually questioned the alleged shooter for suspicious behavior, before letting him go.
...
"His assault charges also involve assault on law enforcement officers," said Sgt. David Schlosser of the U.S. Park Police.

Ortega's citizenship is unclear, as is his mental health history.

191 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:21:34pm

Im out. It's clinical. Nite to the sane debaters.

192 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:22:16pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

Not a lot of a lot of good options on this one, James. Things are fairly polarized right now, and indictments of the previous administration could quickly become politicized. It's more important right now to keep the peace.

And the above point about keeping the peace goes double if any Republican succeeds President Obama, in 2013 or 2017. such a President will be under pressure to punish those considered responsible for unconstitutional or "socialist" policies, and must resist that pressure. It is imperative that neither party feel that its leaders must either hold power or risk prison, for that way lies the end of democracy.

Sorry DF I'm going to have to disagree, I feel there is no surer way to end up abandoning democracy, or at least anything making democracy worthwhile than to shy away from fair and open trials of those who are believed to be guilty. To just sweep percieved slights under the rug will only further polarize the sides as they each believe the other is getting away with something horrible.

193 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:22:42pm

re: #178 Stanley Sea

Were you always cheering waterboarding?

He's the Sharmuta of waterboarding in here.

//

194 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:24:05pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Radical wingnut propaganda smear artists report OWS connection in shooting near the White House...
Police Search McPherson Square Occupy Camp For Oscar Ramiro Ortega

It's not the fault of Occupy DC that Ortega is a gang-banging asshole who tries to murder others. But they do have an obligation as citizens to turn him in if he turns up in the camp.

195 b_snark  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:24:21pm

re: #183 engineer dog

Psychologically they were older, better established, and resisted innovation.
They felt that resistance to the Crown—the legitimate government—was morally wrong.
They were alienated when the Patriots resorted to violence, such as burning houses and tarring and feathering.
They wanted to take a middle-of-the road position and were angry when forced by the Patriots to declare their opposition.
They had a long-standing sentimental attachment to Britain (often with business and family links).
They were procrastinators who realized that independence was bound to come some day, but wanted to postpone the moment.
They were rightly cautious and afraid of the anarchy stemming from mob rule, which did cost many their property and security after the revolution.
Some say they were pessimists who lacked the confidence in the future displayed by the Patriots, while others point to the memory and dreadful experience of many Scottish immigrants who had already seen or paid the price of rebellion in dispossession and clearance from their prior homeland

And Bingo was his name-o.

196 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:24:52pm

re: #178 Stanley Sea

It fits the authoritarian model >

197 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:25:09pm

re: #186 SanFranciscoZionist

Librium.

There's a scene in Out On Blue Six where the former Elector of the Great City of Yu explains that your job as Elector is to maintain the equilibrium of the city. Equilibrium, he explains, is an ancient word, derived from two other ancient words, 'equi', meaning equal amounts, and 'librium', which is the name of tranquilizer.

Libria

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:25:18pm

re: #187 Decatur Deb

Back-jacking to the Jewish humor thread, did anyone bring this?

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Fascinatin'.

I would argue that Native Americans are hilarious, however.

199 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:25:35pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

It's not the fault of Occupy DC that Ortega is a gang-banging asshole who tries to murder others. But they do have an obligation as citizens to turn him in if he turns up in the camp.

What? He's only there because he's outraged at wage disparity.

200 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:25:42pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

The raping, stabbing, communists and anarchists. I thought I made that clear.

How much rapey stabby commie anarchists were there at all the OWS movements?

1%?

99%?

201 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:26:08pm

re: #191 Stanley Sea

Im out. It's clinical. Nite to the sane debaters.

Later. Check your messages.

202 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:26:09pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

It's not the fault of Occupy DC that Ortega is a gang-banging asshole who tries to murder others. But they do have an obligation as citizens to turn him in if he turns up in the camp.

I doubt there's a political ideological connection to OWS but these camps attract criminals. It's a great place to hide and get free food and lodging.

203 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:26:13pm

re: #192 jamesfirecat

Sorry DF I'm going to have to disagree, I feel there is no surer way to end up abandoning democracy, or at least anything making democracy worthwhile than to shy away from fair and open trials of those who are believed to be guilty. To just sweep percieved slights under the rug will only further polarize the sides as they each believe the other is getting away with something horrible.

Well, I do see things differently, but I see your point. This one is one of those issues that is a judgement call: both course of action have costs and benefits and neither is the course of an angel nor that of a demon.

204 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:26:26pm

re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist

His campaign acknowledges that he has a Google problem.

But isn't that really the least of Santorum's problems? Very few Republicans even want him to be their anti-Romney. They're willing to give Newt a second chance before they give Santorum a first chance.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:26:50pm

re: #200 BigPapa

How much rapey stabby commie anarchists were there at all the OWS movements?

1%?

99%?

Does each one have to be a rapey stabby commie anarchist to count, or can one, say, just be a stabber?

206 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:27:03pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

I doubt there's a political ideological connection to OWS but these camps attract criminals. It's a great place to hide and get free food and lodging.

That is true and cannot be denied.

207 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:27:12pm

re: #200 BigPapa

How much rapey stabby commie anarchists were there at all the OWS movements?

1%?

99%?

Only 1% stabby!
/great sales pitch

208 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:27:51pm

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

That is true and cannot be denied.

Sure it can. Just watch.

209 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:28:07pm

re: #200 BigPapa

How much rapey stabby commie anarchists were there at all the OWS movements?

1%?

99%?

*clasps hands*
When will all the hippie on hippie violence end in America?
/

210 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:28:12pm

Denial and diversion and lack of cooperation are the exact reason why the "civilized world' is suspicious of muslims.

211 jamesfirecat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:29:01pm

re: #203 Dark_Falcon

Well, I do see things differently, but I see your point. This one is one of those issues that is a judgement call: both course of action have costs and benefits and neither is the course of an angel nor that of a demon.

What it all comes down to is, that America needs to turn down the extreme polarization that we're dealing with.

Luckily in my dreams that's going to happen about the same time as the GOP becomes so heavily right wing that it collapses into a black hole of its own wingularity and ceases to be anything but a regional party.

212 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:29:08pm

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

Does each one have to be a rapey stabby commie anarchist to count, or can one, say, just be a stabber?

Throw a couple or's in there, good point.

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:29:28pm

re: #204 palomino

But isn't that really the least of Santorum's problems? Very few Republicans even want him to be their anti-Romney. They're willing to give Newt a second chance before they give Santorum a first chance.

Santorum is a tragedy being averted from happening because voters won't actually vote for him.

However, I love commenting on his Google problem, because his campaign has actually officially said that. "We acknowlege that he has a Google problem."

214 mr.fusion  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:29:37pm

Something that is always lost in this conversation is that there is precedent for the American military prosecuting instances of waterboarding. And I don't mean they prosecuted other armies for doing it to our soldiers....we have court martialed soldiers in the past for waterboarding POW's

Link

The Washington Post runs a front-page photo of a US soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier. The caption says the technique induced “a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk.” Because of the photo, the US Army initiates an investigation, and the soldier is court-martialed and convicted of torturing a prisoner.

...

During the Spanish-American War, a U.S. soldier, Major Edwin Glenn, was suspended from command for one month and fined $50 for using "the water cure." In his review, the Army judge advocate said the charges constituted "resort to torture with a view to extort a confession." He recommended disapproval because "the United States cannot afford to sanction the addition of torture."

The point is this matter has already been settled....years and years ago. Waterboarding is torture and we have punished Americans for performing it on enemy combatants. Enemies that were just as set on killing Americans as our current enemy. Enemies that knew just as much as our current ones. That didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. As McCain said a few years ago (probably have this quote a little bit wrong) but torture "isn't about them, it's about us."

215 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:30:11pm

re: #210 Gus 802

Denial and diversion and lack of cooperation are the exact reasons why the "civilized world' is suspicious of Republicans.

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:31:22pm

re: #210 Gus 802

???

217 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:31:29pm

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

Santorum is a tragedy being averted from happening because voters won't actually vote for him.

However, I love commenting on his Google problem, because his campaign has actually officially said that. "We acknowlege that he has a Google problem."

I note that Herman Cain hasn't been man enough to take Dan Savage up on his challenge yet.

218 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:32:43pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

???

Oh. Nothing. Just reading some wingnut comments on the internets.

219 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:35:14pm

re: #204 palomino

But isn't that really the least of Santorum's problems? Very few Republicans even want him to be their anti-Romney. They're willing to give Newt a second chance before they give Santorum a first chance.

Why don't the Republicans want him though? It's not because of his history or political positions which are absolutely in line with the party's mainstream positions. It's because Dan Savage used the internet to literally make Rick's name antithetical to digestion.

220 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:36:04pm

re: #217 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I note that Herman Cain hasn't been man enough to take Dan Savage up on his challenge yet.

IIRC the challenge has been modified, he's now required to be aroused while doing it.

(This is because a straight fan wrote in and said he was the kind of guy who would go down on Dan to prove a point out of sheer stubborness, but would not be able to er, prove he was enjoying himself.)

221 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:37:30pm

re: #217 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I note that Herman Cain hasn't been man enough to take Dan Savage up on his challenge yet.

Ironic since the far right sees someone like Savage as less than a real man, while Cain to them is a paragon of masculinity. The truth of course is quite different.

As far as Cain's campaign, the sexual harassment charges will likely be perceived as the destroyer of his campaign. But the real downfall of his campaign is the drip, drip, drip of inane comments he makes. He's no better informed on foreign policy and many other issues than Sarah Palin.

222 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:37:32pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

IIRC the challenge has been modified, he's now required to be aroused while doing it.

(This is because a straight fan wrote in and said he was the kind of guy who would go down on Dan to prove a point out of sheer stubborness, but would not be able to er, prove he was enjoying himself.)

Umm... what's this challenge exactly? Is it something I would've done in college?

223 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:39:09pm

re: #222 JasonA

Umm... what's this challenge exactly? Is it something I would've done in college?

Cain said being gay was a choice. Savage said prove it, choose to be gay and go down on him.

224 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:39:49pm

re: #214 mr.fusion

Back in the day, they just shot anyone that wasn't cooperating.

225 palomino  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:40:16pm

re: #219 goddamnedfrank

Why don't the Republicans want him though? It's not because of his history or political positions which are absolutely in line with the party's mainstream positions. It's because Dan Savage used the internet to literally make Rick's name antithetical to digestion.

Teabagger, Santorum...the gop always seems a step behind on the latest sexual slang.

226 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:40:32pm

Rapey and stabby hippies are costly: Oakland says month-long anti-Wall Street protests have cost city estimated $2.4 million
That's a lot of money to accomplish nothing.

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:40:45pm

re: #224 laZardo

Back in the day, they just shot anyone that wasn't cooperating.

I had to read that a couple of times.

I initially read it as 'back in my day', and was thinking, what day, he's just out of college.

228 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:41:02pm

re: #141 Stanley Sea

I am watching, and just don't understand how OWS made you push so hard for asshole status.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

229 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:41:16pm

drink!

230 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:41:48pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

I had to read that a couple of times.

I initially read it as 'back in my day', and was thinking, what day, he's just out of college.

WHIPPERSNAPPER!

I;

231 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:42:21pm

re: #219 goddamnedfrank

Exhibits A & B

I forgot, these two photographs should always accompany any discussion of Santorum and digestion.

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:42:55pm

re: #225 palomino

Teabagger, Santorum...the gop always seems a step behind on the latest sexual slang.

Well, 'teabagger' they could have escaped by simply using Google--although not the Urban Dictionary, which is just too nonsensical to be useful--people do stuff like put in their best friend's names meaning things like 'super hot chick who is nice to everyone'.

No, no one is going around saying things like "That girl is such an Ermintrude!" Not in real life.

"Santorum" however, was God's judgement on Santorum, delivered through Her prophet Dan.

233 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:43:07pm

re: #219 goddamnedfrank

Why don't the Republicans want him though? It's not because of his history or political positions which are absolutely in line with the party's mainstream positions. It's because Dan Savage used the internet to literally make Rick's name antithetical to digestion.

Even on the extremes of the parties, more people vote strategically these days than was previously the case. And if someone has a background that is easy to mine for stuff that can be used to damaging effect, strategic voters will not vote for that person.

234 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:43:39pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

Can we just agree that raping, torturing and stabbing are bad? Pretty please?

/

It's only bad when libruls do it. Because they are elitists and eggheads.

Anyone else and it's patriotism and tradition, never to be questioned by the plebes!

235 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:44:14pm

Another night of constant OWS trolling. I don't see the point in coming here anymore. I don't need, make that want to read about OWS every 5 minutes. Even if it was positive OWS news.

236 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:44:31pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain said being gay was a choice. Savage said prove it, choose to be gay and go down on him.

Thanks... I think.

237 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:44:56pm

re: #226 Killgore Trout

Rapey and stabby hippies are costly: Oakland says month-long anti-Wall Street protests have cost city estimated $2.4 million
That's a lot of money to accomplish nothing.

Get help.

238 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:44:57pm

re: #234 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's only bad when libruls do it. Because they are elitists and eggheads.

Anyone else and it's patriotism and tradition, never to be questioned by the plebes!

You know, if someone's gonna rape, stab or torture me, I honestly don't give a damn what their politics are. I'm going to try to take them out with a fire extinguisher, and we'll discuss the ideological underpinnings later.

239 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:45:56pm

re: #235 Gus 802

Another night of constant OWS trolling. I don't see the point in coming here anymore. I don't need, make that want to read about OWS every 5 minutes. Even if it was positive OWS news.

It's the greatest threat America currently faces.

240 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:46:34pm

re: #229 WindUpBird

drink!

Image: cIaP4.jpg

241 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:47:42pm

re: #236 JasonA

Thanks... I think.

Whether or not that was something you would have done in college, I leave to you.

Hey, its college.

242 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:48:25pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

Only 1% stabby!
/great sales pitch

where is your detailed analysis of how the rate of criminality in the encampment compares to the normal rate of crime in the areas they are in?

since you have such a deep and inexhaustible interest in the topic, i'm sure you wouldn't stop halfway with details reported out of context

243 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:48:56pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

Even on the extremes of the parties, more people vote strategically these days than was previously the case. And if someone has a background that is easy to mine for stuff that can be used to damaging effect, strategic voters will not vote for that person.

Agreed, but how do you reconcile that with Romney's skillet full of flip flops?

244 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:54:05pm

I have no idea of where this is going so here's a bunny with a pancake waffle on it's head.

245 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:55:47pm

re: #244 BigPapa

I have no idea of where this is going so here's a bunny with a pancake waffle on it's head.

Cogent as anything anyone else has.

246 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:56:10pm

re: #243 goddamnedfrank

Agreed, bow do you reconcile that with Romney's skillet full of flip flops?

re: #244 BigPapa

I have no idea of where this is going so here's a bunny with a pancake waffle on it's head.

Nice segue.

247 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:57:54pm

And now my little rant about Newt...
Newt will never be the President..Ever...I don't care how smart he is..And he is pretty smart..Remember when he did his little debates with Bill Clinton? You know that was pretty cool in the 90's..Both sides could sit around and speak civil to each other..But I digress..
Newt forgot America will never vote for a person with major Character flaws..
And he is not gracious...He is a snot nosed know-it-all smartass in the debates..
He is not Presidential material...

248 KronoGhazi  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:58:21pm

re: #246 publicityStunted

re: #244 BigPapa

Nice segue.

I am a Big Chef, with Special Sauce.

249 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:58:25pm

re: #246 publicityStunted

re: #244 BigPapa

Nice segue.

Nice Segue Segue Sputnik

250 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 7:58:43pm

re: #237 Gus 802

its an interesting case study, WUB talking about hippie punching has gotten KT to emphasize the word hippie a lot more.

Pretty classic.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:00:09pm

First world problem: hunting through a refrigerator, trying to track down a baggie of cheese wedges that has to be in there somewhere, goddamnit, hiding in among all the other food in the refrigerator.

I have now eaten a cheese wedge.

252 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:02:35pm

re: #250 windsagio

its an interesting case study, WUB talking about hippie punching has gotten KT to emphasize the word hippie a lot more.

Pretty classic.

Foghorn Leghorn strikes again!

No bozos.

//

253 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:02:58pm

There has been a lot of segue-ing lately.

And why does the new character number counter irritate me so much?

254 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:04:11pm

re: #247 HoosierHoops

And now my little rant about Newt...
Newt will never be the President..Ever...I don't care how smart he is..And he is pretty smart..Remember when he did his little debates with Bill Clinton? You know that was pretty cool in the 90's..Both sides could sit around and speak civil to each other..But I digress..
Newt forgot America will never vote for a person with major Character flaws..
And he is not gracious...He is a snot nosed know-it-all smartass in the debates..
He is not Presidential material...

Nobody who went to college wants a boring college professor as POTUS. Can you imagine the "talks" he give the public.

*zzzzzz*

255 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:04:35pm

101st Fighting Keyboards is back!

Look out Koskidz and hippies because we're back!

256 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:05:15pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

Even on the extremes of the parties, more people vote strategically these days than was previously the case.

Previous to what?

Source?

257 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:05:56pm

re: #255 Gus 802

101st Fighting Keyboards is back!

Tablet bombadiers, yawn.

258 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:06:00pm

Almost no one likes the Kitteh video I Pages Posted.

And, I thought it was soooo cute.

:(

259 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:07:22pm

re: #258 ggt

Almost no one likes the Kitteh video I Pages Posted.

And, I thought it was sooo cute.

:(

Link?

260 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:07:29pm

re: #244 BigPapa

I have no idea of where this is going so here's a bunny with a pancake waffle on it's head.

I had a very good Bananas Foster waffle at brunch yesterday.

261 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:07:54pm

re: #259 McSpiff

Link?

262 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:08:44pm

re: #257 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Tablet bombadiers, yawn.

I am aware of all internet traditions!

It's actually some of the same people too. [Cough, cough.] Some of them were thinking about "Koskidz" almost daily for years and years. Some of them still do. Their whole lives have been consumed since 9/11, 9/11, 9/11.

263 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:09:27pm

re: #262 Gus 802

I am aware of all internet traditions!

It's actually some of the same people too. [Cough, cough.] Some of them were thinking about "Koskidz" almost daily for years and years. Somet of them still do. Their whole lives have been consumed since 9/11, 9/11, 9/11.

I have to admit it has been a difficult event to get over.

264 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:11:50pm

re: #260 prairiefire

I had a very good Bananas Foster waffle at brunch yesterday.

My grandma liked Bananas Foster.

At the end of her life it was hard to get her to eat, but my aunt would get her Bananas Foster, and she was always fond of them, even if she just had a bit.

265 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:12:02pm

re: #261 ggt

Went from funny and cute to hil-ari-ous

266 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:12:14pm

My 8 year old just decided to give my H.P. Lovecraft books a try

267 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:12:44pm

re: #265 McSpiff

Went from funny and cute to hil-ari-ous

Worth a Page! doncha think.

The artist has more on youtube. They are all worth watching, IMHO.

268 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:13:32pm

re: #267 ggt

Worth a Page! doncha think.

The artist has more on youtube. They are all worth watching, IMHO.

Gave me flashbacks ;-)

269 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:14:02pm

re: #266 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

My 8 year old just decided to give my H.P. Lovecraft books a try

I want my daughter to read The Martian Chronicles.

270 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:14:18pm

re: #262 Gus 802

So glad I wasn't doing the political blogging nonsense after 9/11, my internets were a refuge from crazy-ass 9-11-flavored vengeance jingoism, and Kos was boring to read because, hey, I already agreed with some of it, but they were too, I dunno, wrapped up in the New World Of Talking On Message Boards On the Internet!

271 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:15:20pm

re: #264 SanFranciscoZionist

My grandma liked Bananas Foster.

At the end of her life it was hard to get her to eat, but my aunt would get her Bananas Foster, and she was always fond of them, even if she just had a bit.

I bet the flaming brandy would light up her day!/ Caramelized bananas....

272 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:16:29pm

re: #270 WindUpBird

So glad I wasn't doing the political blogging nonsense after 9/11, my internets were a refuge from crazy-ass 9-11-flavored vengeance jingoism, and Kos was boring to read because, hey, I already agreed with some of it, but they were too, I dunno, wrapped up in the New World Of Talking On Message Boards On the Internet!

Yeah. Pretty much. This was the only blog I ever really commented on for such a long time. It's not really comments anymore either and more of a chat room. Which has its own set of problems.

273 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:17:35pm

re: #262 Gus 802

I am aware of all internet traditions!

It's actually some of the same people too. [Cough, cough.] Some of them were thinking about "Koskidz" almost daily for years and years. Some of them still do. Their whole lives have been consumed since 9/11, 9/11, 9/11.

Do they never tire of it?

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:18:03pm

re: #272 Gus 802

Yeah. Pretty much. This was the only blog I ever really commented on for such a long time. It's not really comments anymore either and more of a chat room. Which has its own set of problems.

Before Blogs, I participated in a couple of email list thingys. Private.

I don't understand people who still won't even email their friends.

275 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:18:33pm

re: #269 prairiefire

I want my daughter to read The Martian Chronicles.

I need to dig out my John Carter stuff

276 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:19:40pm

There was a Purple Stride Pancreatic Cancer fund raising run in Dallas yesterday. There was almost $12,000 raised in tribute for my good friend from her friends and family. She was loved by many people. She would be very proud, she is very proud right now.

277 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:19:51pm

re: #273 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do they never tire of it?

Doesn't seem like it. It's the kind of people that spend all day reading other peoples comments. It's a weird obsession. I've only done that on rare occasion. But no. They wake up with a hard on for something and go to bed with a hard on for something. That's the life of a redneck.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:20:24pm

re: #270 WindUpBird

So glad I wasn't doing the political blogging nonsense after 9/11, my internets were a refuge from crazy-ass 9-11-flavored vengeance jingoism, and Kos was boring to read because, hey, I already agreed with some of it, but they were too, I dunno, wrapped up in the New World Of Talking On Message Boards On the Internet!

Meanwhile, I was unsubbing from dozens of my lefty e-mail lists that were becoming unbearable. My favorite was the one with the woman who said she understood al-Qaeda's rage at the United States, because as a New Zealander, she was oppressed by U.S. tariffs.

279 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:20:49pm

re: #276 prairiefire

There was a Purple Stride Pancreatic Cancer fund raising run in Dallas yesterday. There was almost $12,000 raised in tribute for my good friend from her friends and family. She was loved by many people. She would be very proud, she is very proud right now.

WOOT!

280 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:21:46pm

re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I need to dig out my John Carter stuff

Yeah, my son and I saw the trailer for the new movie:[Link: disney.go.com...]

281 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:23:18pm

re: #270 WindUpBird

So glad I wasn't doing the political blogging nonsense after 9/11, my internets were a refuge from crazy-ass 9-11-flavored vengeance jingoism, and Kos was boring to read because, hey, I already agreed with some of it, but they were too, I dunno, wrapped up in the New World Of Talking On Message Boards On the Internet!

I was on a couple message boards, both of which got overrun with anybody but bush and dumb troother bigots.

Same level of amateurism -- ooo the INTERNET is gonna change EVERYTHING!!!

(No, if you are not careful, the INTERNET is going to change YOU.)

282 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:23:37pm

re: #279 Floral Giraffe

WOOT!

Pretty amazing, I think.

The color is purple for the bands, etc. I can hear her in my head, "So, I've got a color now."

283 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:24:04pm

re: #274 ggt

Before Blogs, I participated in a couple of email list thingys. Private.

I don't understand people who still won't even email their friends.

when I was 12: (late 1980's) Compuserve, Genie, local Atari ST BBSes where I didn't know anyone

When I was 15: mostly local BBSes run by friends and acquaintances, got together, had parties, meetups in downtown Seattle

When I was 18: USENET so much USENET, some BBSes still, by leapfrogging by telnet to the modem pools at the UofW, also mailing lists, also more USENET, lots of IRC

When I was 24: actual blogging, more IRC and chat rooms, art-centered mailing lists

by the time 9/11 happened, I was sorta on like my 9th medium of bullshitting on computers with other humans :D

284 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:24:59pm

re: #281 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I was on a couple message boards, both of which got overrun with anybody but bush and dumb troother bigots.

Same level of amateurism -- ooo the INTERNET is gonna change EVERYTHING!!!

(No, if you are not careful, the INTERNET is going to change YOU.)

In the wake of 9/11, basically I hung out with my usual crowd of furries and we all bitched about how stupid people were acting about 9/11 :D

285 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:25:30pm

re: #283 WindUpBird

oh wait, forgot about MUCKs and MUDs

286 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:26:28pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

Those were where I came up with the character that resulted in my username. O:

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:26:53pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

oh wait, forgot about MUCKs and MUDs

I remember MUDs. Vaguely.

288 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:27:11pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

Meanwhile, I was unsubbing from dozens of my lefty e-mail lists that were becoming unbearable. My favorite was the one with the woman who said she understood al-Qaeda's rage at the United States, because as a New Zealander, she was oppressed by U.S. tariffs.

They do have very nice food items such as venison and veal that the Clinton Admin tariffed to keep out of the US.

289 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:27:36pm

Newt! Newt! Newt!

He's the new(t) not Romney! Huzzah! Huzzah!

Pitiful.

Total fail.

290 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:28:11pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

oh wait, forgot about MUCKs and MUDs

Dude, you are such a geek.

When I was 18-24, if there was an internet, I'da been posting things that weren't even words. I couldn't even order a pizza after work because I couldn't get the words out.

"May I take your order"

"uh, uh, yah, um, well, I, a, yeah, hold on . . . .Hey Babe, will you do this?"

:0

291 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:29:33pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember MUDs. Vaguely.

My friends built them, I still use descendents of MUDS to this day to keep in touch with friends who still use them over AIM

292 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:29:34pm

I have a full day tomorrow.

Night all,

have fun!

293 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:29:41pm

re: #282 prairiefire

She would be so proud of you.

294 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:31:30pm

Oh, and by the way, a great interview with Keith Jarrett on NPR today. His new solo album, Rio is killer bee.

295 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:31:38pm

re: #290 ggt

Dude, you are such a geek.

:0

Oh yes *_*

Parents were geeks, uncle was a computer engineer from the "giant boxes in air conditioned rooms" days, he gave me his old computers

other kids went outside to play, I stayed inside and messed with printer drivers and primitive art programs

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:33:05pm

re: #288 prairiefire

They do have very nice food items such as venison and veal that the Clinton Admin tariffed to keep out of the US.

I'm sure they're lovely products, and it may be that the tariffs are not fair to New Zealand.

It seemed like a somewhat odd response to a massive terror attack, though.

(Most of the rest of the lists I got off were somewhat more psychotic, I just remember Ms. New Zealand Tariffs as being sort of unique.)

297 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:35:25pm

re: #295 WindUpBird

Oh yes *_*

Parents were geeks, uncle was a computer engineer from the "giant boxes in air conditioned rooms" days, he gave me his old computers

other kids went outside to play, I stayed inside and messed with printer drivers and primitive art programs

Some of us computer engineers still deal with giant boxes in air conditioned rooms ;-)

298 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:35:50pm

re: #279 Floral Giraffe

Hi you!
This week..Napa Valley..Home..Family..The smells..The memories..Wine snobs..Ah yea..I'll call..But Pops doesn't have Internet so I'll be dark except for the occasional visit to a Starbucks or McDonald's..Jordan is jacked up..He has a music room with drums and guitars and can't wait to jam with dad...I miss Nikki also...She is now an Admin assistant in the Valley with her own place..Proud of her...

299 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:36:01pm

re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist

Her axe to grind, I guess.

300 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:36:47pm

Jesus fucking Christ this guy is a moron:

"The president is the benefactor of a lot of information that came from waterboarding," said West on Fox News. "Furthermore, in the movie ‘G.I. Jane,’ Demi Moore was waterboarded and we do that in military training; in survival, escape and resistance training."

301 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:37:11pm

Sorry, here's the data:

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

302 erik_t  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:37:12pm

Thank god for facebook-defriending. If you refer to your political opponents (OWS in this case) as 'maggots', we're unlikely to have enough in common to remain even fake-internet-friends, high school notwithstanding.

303 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:38:52pm

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

lol at the link text

304 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:39:34pm

g'night folks

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:39:43pm

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

Jesus fucking Christ this guy is a moron:

We've had a lot of folks coming in through the years with that SERE argument.

The question, of course, that they can never answer without screwing up their argument is "Why did we do that?"

306 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:40:23pm

re: #302 erik_t

Thank god for facebook-defriending. If you refer to your political opponents (OWS in this case) as 'maggots', we're unlikely to have enough in common to remain even fake-internet-friends, high school notwithstanding.

shoulda posted:

307 Gus  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:40:32pm

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

Jesus fucking Christ this guy is a moron:

Stupid redneck is stupid.

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:41:29pm

Michael Lerner is trying to work with Occupy Oakland.

God, I feel for those poor SOBs.

I’ve been involved in Occupy Oakland—celebrating its beauty and strength, and yet trying to convince them to explicitly embrace nonviolence and reject destruction of property (without forgetting that the violence of the system that we are protesting is far worse than anything done by the small group of property-destroyers). Yet those who advocate “a legitimate role for violence” or participate in smashing windows at corporations like Whole Foods (yes, that’s where they smashed windows!) actually end up providing perceived legitimacy in the public mind for police violence. They make it easy for the media to shift attention away from the legitimate demands of this movement. The Occupy movement has already made a powerful contribution by helping people see their situation in terms of the 99 percent who have suffered from the class war that has been waged against us by the 1 percent and their various allies in the media, the political establishment, the corporations, many of the big foundations, and academia. I’ve written about this on our website (www.tikkun.org), and I hope you’ll read my article there titled “Praying with our Feet at Occupy Oakland.”

I was actually quite disturbed this past Wednesday, November 9 when someone calling for non-violence at Occupy Oakland’s General Assembly was booed when he mentioned the names of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. and later when a motion endorsing “a variety of tactics” (code words for allowing continuation of property destruction as one of that “variety”) received close to 65 percent of the vote (though it didn’t pass, because they require 80 percent to pass). Please do check out my article on all this. I am very supportive and enthusiastic about the Occupy movement, and think it has done so much to help revitalize hope and consciousness about the vast inequalities and injustices in our own society, so I really don’t want any of its branches to shoot themselves in their own feet! You can read more about this by clicking here.

309 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:41:39pm

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

Jesus fucking Christ this guy is a moron:

Hell, Keifer Sutherland cut off a guy's head!

310 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:42:39pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

We've had a lot of folks coming in through the years with that SERE argument.

The question, of course, that they can never answer without screwing up their argument is "Why did we do that?"

Referencing a scene from a movie is also quite a fail.

311 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:42:40pm

Only with politics in America does your wife come to your defense..and stand by your side..
Normally your clothes are on fire and there is a sign on your car that says Free...

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:44:35pm

re: #310 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Referencing a scene from a movie is also quite a fail.

It does make you wonder what would happen if we based US foreign policy and military conduct on movies.

313 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:44:44pm

re: #298 HoosierHoops

Hope you visit is better than you expect.
You've got my number if you want to talk.
*smooch*

314 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:46:15pm

re: #308 SanFranciscoZionist

Michael Lerner is trying to work with Occupy Oakland.

God, I feel for those poor SOBs.

I’ve been involved in Occupy Oakland—celebrating its beauty and strength, and yet trying to convince them to explicitly embrace nonviolence and reject destruction of property (without forgetting that the violence of the system that we are protesting is far worse than anything done by the small group of property-destroyers). Yet those who advocate “a legitimate role for violence” or participate in smashing windows at corporations like Whole Foods (yes, that’s where they smashed windows!) actually end up providing perceived legitimacy in the public mind for police violence. They make it easy for the media to shift attention away from the legitimate demands of this movement. The Occupy movement has already made a powerful contribution by helping people see their situation in terms of the 99 percent who have suffered from the class war that has been waged against us by the 1 percent and their various allies in the media, the political establishment, the corporations, many of the big foundations, and academia. I’ve written about this on our website (www.tikkun.org), and I hope you’ll read my article there titled “Praying with our Feet at Occupy Oakland.”

I was actually quite disturbed this past Wednesday, November 9 when someone calling for non-violence at Occupy Oakland’s General Assembly was booed when he mentioned the names of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. and later when a motion endorsing “a variety of tactics” (code words for allowing continuation of property destruction as one of that “variety”) received close to 65 percent of the vote (though it didn’t pass, because they require 80 percent to pass). Please do check out my article on all this. I am very supportive and enthusiastic about the Occupy movement, and think it has done so much to help revitalize hope and consciousness about the vast inequalities and injustices in our own society, so I really don’t want any of its branches to shoot themselves in their own feet! You can read more about this by clicking here.

And yes, he always writes like that.

315 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:50:43pm

re: #308 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that way. And "variety" doesn't neccessarily have to imply violence. Police leaks are a great way to force accountability without having to actually use 'force.'

316 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:54:04pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

It does make you wonder what would happen if we based US foreign policy and military conduct on movies.

All operations would be conducted by grizzled veterans on their last mission before retirement and their wild rookie partner who can't play by the book.

317 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:56:19pm

re: #315 laZardo


variety of means could be flash mobs, could be sit-ins at a bank, could be neo-yippies, Ken kesey-esque merry prankster stuff

all of which I heartily endorse :D

318 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 8:57:38pm

re: #316 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

All operations would be conducted by grizzled veterans on their last mission before retirement and their wild rookie partner who can't play by the book.

let's Iron Eagle everything

319 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:00:18pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

It does make you wonder what would happen if we based US foreign policy and military conduct on movies.

Just Cause.

The game, not the operation it's named after. ;)

320 Amory Blaine  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:02:11pm

Melancholia would be a good movie. Very relevant.

321 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:02:48pm

re: #316 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

All operations would be conducted by grizzled veterans on their last mission before retirement and their wild rookie partner who can't play by the book.

MENDOZAAA

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:02:58pm

re: #317 WindUpBird

variety of means could be flash mobs, could be sit-ins at a bank, could be neo-yippies, Ken kesey-esque merry prankster stuff

all of which I heartily endorse :D

Everyone I know who is involved in Occupy Oakland understands the phrasing to mean that they're talking about violence or property damage. Including Michael Lerner, who could be accused of a lot of things, but never cynicism about any given progressive movement that comes down the pike. The man is the most eternal idealist I have ever met in my life.

If they're mistaken, and the discusion is really about flash mobs, thats awful good news. I know folks who've been losing sleep over this.

323 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:03:10pm

Night, all. Sweet dreams.

324 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:06:13pm

re: #243 goddamnedfrank

Agreed, but how do you reconcile that with Romney's skillet full of flip flops?

Flip-flops aren't too out of the ordinary. But Santorum has too often hung out with not-good people and said seriously problematic things. One can get hurt by flip-flops but normally its survivable. Start talking crazy talk and you become damaged goods permanently. Michelle Bachmann is proof of that, since even FNC isn't covering her in a flattering light anymore.

(Geeze, even on a book cover Bachmann can't lose the Crazy Eyes.)

Sorry about the delay. Firefox froze again, after I tried loading one tab too many.

325 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:07:19pm

re: #322 SanFranciscoZionist

Its worth repeating, that essentially all violence so far is by the police.

326 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:07:58pm

re: #325 windsagio

And eventually, people will start pushing back.

327 Amory Blaine  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:09:40pm

re: #317 WindUpBird

variety of means could be flash mobs, could be sit-ins at a bank, could be neo-yippies, Ken kesey-esque merry prankster stuff

all of which I heartily endorse :D

I really liked Chicago 10.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:10:19pm

You know, I actually brought Lerner's crap up because I feel sorry for the Occupy Oakland people. I've sat through lectures by Michael Lerner on the Right Way To Do Shit. If they give him the mic, they're going to live to rue the day.

329 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:10:26pm

re: #326 laZardo

And eventually, people will start pushing back.

It really really bothers me, that its OK for police to beat the hell out of people for peacefully assembling but if they have a resolution that talks in vague terms about maybe-violence its a freakin' national chrisis.

330 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:11:15pm

re: #302 erik_t

Thank god for facebook-defriending. If you refer to your political opponents (OWS in this case) as 'maggots', we're unlikely to have enough in common to remain even fake-internet-friends, high school notwithstanding.

I'm in touch with one person from high school. And he's on ignore.

331 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:12:46pm

re: #329 windsagio

It especially bothers me when people say "oh, not all cops are like that." The fact that it's been going on for so long means they have the implicit if not explicit endorsement of the establishment.

The "Guilt by association" excuse does not fly if it's true.

332 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:12:50pm

re: #314 SanFranciscoZionist

And yes, he always writes like that.

He writes far too much. Your eyes glaze over long before you reach the point. Frankly, writing DERP! would be more effective communication.

333 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:13:20pm

re: #327 Amory Blaine

The Chicago stuff is kind of fun, if a travesty.

They knew it was a sham from the start, and took the opportunity to kick the judge repeatedly in his "I'm in charge here" balls.

334 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:13:42pm

re: #330 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm in touch with one person from high school. And he's on ignore.

I haven't spoken to anyone from HS since HS.

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:14:29pm

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

He writes far too much. Your eyes glaze over long before you reach the point. Frankly, writing DERP! would be more effective communication.

Michael takes no shortcuts. He wants to make it absolutely clear what he thinks. It leads to tortured prose.

336 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:14:38pm

re: #331 laZardo

They're explicitly supposed to be like that. When the PDX SWAT went into OP as a group with the billy clubs, that was on order.

Which is chilling... Police being told to brutalize innocent civilians. That's Syria shit.

337 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:15:35pm

re: #330 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm in touch with one person from high school. And he's on ignore.

I've got all of the h.s. dope smoking "conservatives" on ignore. There's one dude that I'm hoping the Feds have on a watch list cuz he's nucking futs.

338 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:15:59pm

re: #336 windsagio

And anyone that calls them out for what they really are here gets their posts deleted.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

339 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:16:56pm

re: #325 windsagio

Its worth repeating, that essentially all violence so far is by the police.

Oh, so those Occupy people in Oakland who threw rocks at the police were false flag plants, I suppose. And maybe that bitch in San Francisco who slashed a cop with a box cutter yesterday was a secret employee of Cox Energy.

/dripping

340 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:17:19pm

re: #329 windsagio

It really really bothers me, that its OK for police to beat the hell out of people for peacefully assembling but if they have a resolution that talks in vague terms about maybe-violence its a freakin' national chrisis.

well that's the joke, right?

the joke is this:

Hippies with little money and no power are held to a higher standard than the guys with the clubs, guns, cars, radios, organization, government and funding.

And naturally hippies are to blame for the homeless and mentally ill. Not the state! Not defunding respite care and mental health. no no. Must be hippies! The instant a homeless guy or someone mentally ill (often the same thing) shows up at OWS? then he's a Hippie and the Hippies' Fault.

That's how the calculus works! It's a great catch 22.

SEC investigators? Well, we just don't really make that a priority. Park cleanups, far more important than billions in bank malfeasance. What will the neighbors think

basically our country protects its alcoholic fathers, and always will. And if the kids talk about alcoholic daddy? SMACKO

341 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:17:40pm

re: #334 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I haven't spoken to anyone from HS since HS.

I've helped plan reunions for the last 15 years. Who knew there were so many blue collar, union bred bitter "conservatives" clinging to their guns and religion? Oh, yeah.

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:17:44pm

Look, am I understanding correctly here that Rabbi Michael Lerner has now become an apologist for police brutality? Because that's going to break his poor old heart.

343 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:19:30pm

re: #337 prairiefire

I've got all of the h.s. dope smoking "conservatives" on ignore. There's one dude that I'm hoping the Feds have on a watch list cuz he's nucking futs.

It's funny, he and I both turned out to e The Librulz after being among the most con, and for that school (private, religious) that was something of a feat. Ironically, he found Jesus while I left that stuff behind. But he's not a bible banger. Just another overprivileged type whose deliberate naievete often works the nerves.

Give it another few years, he'll be voting R again.

344 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:23:11pm

re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist

Michael takes no shortcuts. He wants to make it absolutely clear what he thinks. It leads to tortured prose.

I've got the same problem. I counter it by involving (in my personal life) my father or my best friend or (at work) my managers or a co-worker whom I've worked with since I've started there. Those people help me keep things -to-the-point.

345 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:24:54pm

re: #344 Dark_Falcon

I've got the same problem. I counter it by involving (in my personal life) my father or my best friend or (at work) my managers or a co-worker whom I've worked with since I've started there. Those people help me keep things -to-the-point.

You've got the humility needed to do that. Michael, God bless his fuddled mind, really doesn't.

346 erik_t  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:27:12pm

re: #330 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I've got a sneaking suspicion that I'm younger than you.

347 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:27:52pm

re: #342 SanFranciscoZionist

Look, am I understanding correctly here that Rabbi Michael Lerner has now become an apologist for police brutality? Because that's going to break his poor old heart.

I think we're having parallel conversations


know that Windsagio and I have know each other for twenty years and are often chatting in windows that are not LGF, sometimes things are non-linear *_*

348 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:28:59pm

re: #342 SanFranciscoZionist

No I'm saying you are.

349 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:29:29pm

re: #337 prairiefire

I've got all of the h.s. dope smoking "conservatives" on ignore. There's one dude that I'm hoping the Feds have on a watch list cuz he's nucking futs.

I can never go on facebook because then it'll ruin the memories I have of my high school friends who turned out to be just like their crazy right-wing parents

350 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:29:48pm

re: #348 windsagio

No I'm saying you are.

An apologist for police brutality or saying whatever about the Rabbi.

351 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:30:07pm

On the ohter hand, i'm a little unreliable right now.

This makes me so very very very very very very very very very mad.


Its maddening and insane and terrible, and even a hint of it makes me nuts.

352 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:30:53pm

re: #347 WindUpBird

I think we're having parallel conversations

know that Windsagio and I have know each other for twenty years and are often chatting in windows that are not LGF, sometimes things are non-linear *_*

Ah, non-linear speech.

353 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:32:37pm

re: #342 SanFranciscoZionist

Look, am I understanding correctly here that Rabbi Michael Lerner has now become an apologist for police brutality? Because that's going to break his poor old heart.

No, it sounds more like a Mahatma Gandhi type statement. The idea being (and I'm going to quote directly from the movie Gandhi here, although the movie gives this line to the speaker at Amritsar, just before the massacre) that if protesters use violence on police officers "We [the protesters] become the Vandals, and they [the police] become the Law." Not well deliver by Lerner, though.

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:33:17pm

re: #348 windsagio

No I'm saying you are.

Well, that makes much more sense.

What the hell, I saw the e-mail and figured people might be interested in hearing what was going on the movement itself.

355 windsagio  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:34:09pm

I need to go to work but;

My thing is, anybody who complains about these 'violence resolutions' (if SFZ wasn't complaining about them sorry) but isn't up in arms about the beatings or the tear gas canister to the head is essentially being an apologist for police violence.

The only meaningful question of violence so far at US protests were the Penn State ones and the authorities. Any occupy violence pales in comparison.

356 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:34:51pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

No, it sounds more like a Mahatma Gandhi type statement. The idea being (and I'm going to quote directly from the movie Gandhi here, although the movie gives this line to the speaker at Amritsar, just before the massacre) that if protesters use violence on police officers "We [the protesters] become the Vandals, and they [the police] become the Law." Not well deliver by Lerner, though.

He's not a wildly adept communicator, this is true.

357 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:36:05pm

re: #348 windsagio

No I'm saying you are.

And I say you are a fool. SFZ does not excuse brutality.

358 laZardo  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:36:24pm

Gotta head to bed. Making up for early shift today. Nighty!

359 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:36:51pm

re: #355 windsagio

I need to go to work but;

My thing is, anybody who complains about these 'violence resolutions' (if SFZ wasn't complaining about them sorry) but isn't up in arms about the beatings or the tear gas canister to the head is essentially being an apologist for police violence.

The only meaningful question of violence so far at US protests were the Penn State ones and the authorities. Any occupy violence pales in comparison.

the night that i was at occupy oakland, they voted for the general strike. it sounded very dramatic at the time, like it was gonna be 1934 sf, but in practice it turned out, as i predicted, to be more like a protest march

360 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:37:37pm

re: #355 windsagio

I need to go to work but;

My thing is, anybody who complains about these 'violence resolutions' (if SFZ wasn't complaining about them sorry) but isn't up in arms about the beatings or the tear gas canister to the head is essentially being an apologist for police violence.

The only meaningful question of violence so far at US protests were the Penn State ones and the authorities. Any occupy violence pales in comparison.

White conservative males love football and hate hippies :D :D :D


POWAR STRUCKTURE YO

361 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:37:41pm

re: #346 erik_t

I've got a sneaking suspicion that I'm younger than you.

That's entirely possible.

362 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:39:28pm

re: #360 WindUpBird

White conservative males love football and hate hippies :D :D :D

POWAR STRUCKTURE YO

So they enjoy showering with a bunch of other men and hate easy chicks?

363 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:42:28pm

re: #355 windsagio

I need to go to work but;

My thing is, anybody who complains about these 'violence resolutions' (if SFZ wasn't complaining about them sorry) but isn't up in arms about the beatings or the tear gas canister to the head is essentially being an apologist for police violence.

The only meaningful question of violence so far at US protests were the Penn State ones and the authorities. Any occupy violence pales in comparison.

I attack 'violence resolutions' and defend the police because I've already taken sides. I side with the cops and against the protesters. There is nothing a radical left group like Occupy could say that will sway me.

364 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:49:05pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

I attack 'violence resolutions' and defend the police because I've already taken sides. I side with the cops and against the protesters. There is nothing a radical left group like Occupy could say that will sway me.

resolutions to be violent would indeed be foolish and evil. however, i will wait to see if any were actually taken, and, if so, if there are violent provocations in fact

365 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:50:14pm

re: #340 WindUpBird

basically our country protects its alcoholic fathers, and always will

And pedophile priests

And Christian Coalition fathers who rape their stepdaughters

And whackodoodle religious bigots who torture and murder their adopted children, starve them, keep them in cages and beat them with PVC pipe

And kidnappers who rape and impregnate young girls and keep them captive for 18 years

And pedophile coaches

And lawyers for them who knock up 16 year olds.

But gay marriage!! Won't somebody think of the chilllldrennnn! Traditional family values, fuck yeah!!!

366 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:51:05pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

I attack 'violence resolutions' and defend the police because I've already taken sides. I side with the cops and against the protesters. There is nothing a radical left group like Occupy could say that will sway me.

I don't want you swayed in the least, and wouldn't trust it if you ever said you were. I want you over there, where I can see you.

You cannot be trusted.

367 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:52:29pm

Damn this PC! I had so wanted Killgore to be here when I posted this, since by his logic I condoned rape by eating at McDonald's for lunch today:

Teen Charged With Raping 5-Year-Old at McDonald's

Authorities in the U.S. have charged a 13-year-old boy with raping a 5-year-old girl at a McDonald's play area.

The Hamilton County sheriff's office in Ohio said Monday that the alleged assault occurred Oct. 29. Sheriff's spokesman Steve Barnett says the girl's grandmother was in the restaurant at the time.

The owner of the McDonald's says in a statement that he was upset to learn of the situation. Owner Judson Pickard says he is cooperating with investigators.

Barnett says the boy's parents brought him to the sheriff's office last week after authorities released a security camera photo of the suspect. Barnett says the boy was taken to a juvenile detention center.

A far more hideous story than anything found in the clashes between police and protestors. But like Occupy, McDonald's neither encouraged nor condoned the rape. The owners/organizers of a place where a rape happens is not responsible for the rape unless they either willfully enabled the rapist, or acted with such reckless disregard for or depraved indifference to the risks as to enable the rapist. In my opinion, neither McDonald's nor Occupy did either of those things, so Killgore's argument stands refuted in my eyes.

368 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:52:55pm

re: #355 windsagio

I need to go to work but;

My thing is, anybody who complains about these 'violence resolutions' (if SFZ wasn't complaining about them sorry) but isn't up in arms about the beatings or the tear gas canister to the head is essentially being an apologist for police violence.

The only meaningful question of violence so far at US protests were the Penn State ones and the authorities. Any occupy violence pales in comparison.

The sociopaths love any kind of state-sponsored violence, doesn't matter what agency, doesn't matter who it's against.

It's a form of weak-kneed, proxy vindication for cowards whose own lives are out of control.

369 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:56:17pm

re: #355 windsagio

I need to go to work but;

My thing is, anybody who complains about these 'violence resolutions' (if SFZ wasn't complaining about them sorry) but isn't up in arms about the beatings or the tear gas canister to the head is essentially being an apologist for police violence.

The only meaningful question of violence so far at US protests were the Penn State ones and the authorities. Any occupy violence pales in comparison.

If this movement is gonna amount to shit, they need to be able to answer some hard questions about how they're going to deal with violence, both that directed toward them, and that directed by them at others.

I'm currently in touch with people (some of whom I like better than others) who are part of that conversation in Oakland.

I actually find this somewhat interesting. I'm curious about how it will go, and concerned for friends who are invested in the outcome.

I'm not sure what else I can possibly say about this, and I suppose there's really no reason to say anything else.

370 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:57:41pm

re: #365 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And pedophile priests

And Christian Coalition fathers who rape their stepdaughters

And whackodoodle religious bigots who torture and murder their adopted children, starve them, keep them in cages and beat them with PVC pipe

And kidnappers who rape and impregnate young girls and keep them captive for 18 years

And pedophile coaches

And lawyers for them who knock up 16 year olds.

But gay marriage!! Won't somebody think of the chillldrennn! Traditional family values, fuck yeah!!!

i don't suppose i'll ever understand why it's okay for kids to watch movies where people are killed brutally, but a naked tit is ganz verboten

371 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:03:33pm

re: #370 engineer dog

i don't suppose i'll ever understand why it's okay for kids to watch movies where people are killed brutally, but a naked tit is ganz verboten

Only thing I can think of is outright repression.

And we wonder why we have tea partiers cheering on waterboarding, theoretical 30 year old men dying from no healthcare, and booing their own soldiers, too stupid to realize they're doing so in front of everybody.

Assholes.

372 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:04:32pm

re: #370 engineer dog

i don't suppose i'll ever understand why it's okay for kids to watch movies where people are killed brutally, but a naked tit is ganz verboten

Because everyone kills at some point in their life, but no one ever fucks.
/

373 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:17:51pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

I attack 'violence resolutions' and defend the police because I've already taken sides. I side with the cops and against the protesters. There is nothing a radical left group like Occupy could say that will sway me.

you're very interested in "sides"


and not so interested in economics

which i guess is why you're a Republican!


it's easy to fetishize bombs and guns, not so easy to fetishize the SEC


much harder to understand the real threats to your existence. Which aren't Iran, aren't Palestine, aren't Iraq, aren't arabs, aren't brown people at all


they're financial institutions. Rampant, out of control, absent regulation, bringing us to the precipice of armageddon

the closest we came to a real depression, a real societal collapse was 2008's credit crisis

and it would be great if you could acknowledge that


but I'm not holding my breath :)

374 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:28:15pm

re: #373 WindUpBird

It's like trying to have a rational conversation with a sentient adult still trapped by playground politics.

Everything is the sandbox, to conservatives like that.

375 Areopagitica  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:56:49pm

I have to imagine the only thing worse than waterboarding is watching another one of these ridiculous tGOP debates. Seriously, if you want to torture someone, just sit them down in front of the TV during one of these things. I watched a couple for some laughs and I think I actually got a bit dumber.

376 Summer Seale  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:32:48am

I'm just going to post what I wrote about this just now on my G+ account:

I have to add my voice against waterboarding as well. It is torture, and it's unacceptable.

I admit that in the past, I was dubious on this. Then, when Christopher Hitchens decided to do a session on video (because of his skepticism as well), his reaction and column entirely changed my mind.

You won't find too many people who are more anti-terrorist and anti-jihad than Hitchens, and so vehement about it. And even he unequivocally declared it as torture - and the video is clear that it is so.

You have McCain, with whom I often disagree, declaring it as torture, and he should bloody well know. The thing about it is: the others don't know. Those politicians who support it are just boisterously loud armchair Rambo generals who have never faced anything like that in their lives. Nor, might I add, would they volunteer to investigate it as Hitchens did. Hitchens has cojones to do it, and McCain had no choice lived through that treatment for years.

On principle, I have to say that I don't really have a problem with waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, but he's a bloody exception. We've known about his guilt for years in a number of plots. But we don't base humane laws on exceptions. And, on the whole, it's a very bad idea to do this when you aren't absolutely certain - which we aren't in most cases.

So, if those candidates are willing to undergo a video session of them being waterboarded, over and over again, before declaring that it isn't torture once more, I might be interested in listening to them (and seeing if they're so blithe as to lie about it after weeping like babies - maybe they'll say we took something out of context.)

But until they are willing to go through with it in front of the whole world, as Hitchens did, I think they should bloody well shut up. What they are guilty of is catering to the base; the mean; the ignorant, which is demonstrable in the support that their fans have for Creationism and other nonsense. These are all hallmarks of angry, stupid , and ignorant people who don't know any better and refuse to think that they might somehow be wrong.

There's another word for that kind of politics: demagoguery. And all those politicians who publicly supported that and their other ignorant and base statements are guilty of it.

377 Summer Seale  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:44:15am

Addendum: Before anyone thinks that I approve of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed being waterboarded, let me make it clear that I don't. What I meant is that I won't exactly cry or lose sleep over it. But I wouldn't approve such an action, nor do I think it was right to do so.

378 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:41:37am

re: #377 Summer

Addendum: Before anyone thinks that I approve of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed being waterboarded, let me make it clear that I don't. What I meant is that I won't exactly cry or lose sleep over it. But I wouldn't approve such an action, nor do I think it was right to do so.

And not 180 or how many times he's been subjected to it. That just makes whoever did this to be on his level. That of a mad sadist.

379 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:53:47am

Disappointment presupposes hope. Why McCain would have hoped that the GOP contenders would recognize waterboarding as torture and condemn it is beyond me.

380 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:26:33am

re: #16 windsagio

too lazy to make a page, good read tho'

[Link: www.newscientist.com...]

Systems analysis of the ownership and business links between the biggest transnationals and how much of the economy they control.

Been done:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

381 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:40:46am

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

IMO, he has done this to ensure that the American tradition of a peaceful transition of power is not endangered.

Maybe the people who ordered and executed torture broke the peace first? Every tried looking at it like that?

If officials feared they might be prosecuted by an incoming administration whose legal views differed greatly from the one in which they served, they might be inclined to try some sort of 3rd World-style power play.

Or maybe they might be inclined to not torture, if they feared that the next administration might not approve of that.

Barack Obama is far-sighted enough on this matter to understand that the need to make sure a change of parties holding the White House remains peaceful outweighs the benefits of prosecuting a few people you think were malefactors.

It's not about a few people but the principle. What legal principle do you think the Obama administration would rightfully fear to be prosecuted for breaking?

382 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:48:56am

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

It's more important right now to keep the peace.

When will that change?

383 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:50:04am

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

such a President will be under pressure to punish those considered responsible for unconstitutional or "socialist" policies

You really think "socialist" policies are equal to torture?

384 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:20:12am

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

I side with the cops and against the protesters. There is nothing a radical left group like Occupy could say that will sway me.

Your candor regarding your ideological stubbornness is noted.

385 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:24:04am

re: #367 Dark_Falcon

You're becoming a Commie fast, DF!

///

386 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:25:07am

re: #338 laZardo

And anyone that calls them out for what they really are here gets their posts deleted.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

And if you use the word "pig" again to refer to police, I'll block your account instead of just deleting your comment. This is not up for argument.

387 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:33:05am

re: #226 Killgore Trout

Rapey and stabby hippies are costly: Oakland says month-long anti-Wall Street protests have cost city estimated $2.4 million
That's a lot of money to accomplish nothing.

Guess they should have just gone and shot someone they saw as a threat or problem. Cheaper and still wouldn't have changed anything.


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