Suspected White House Shooter Arrested at Pennsylvania Hotel

Not found in sleeping bag at OWS
US News • Views: 24,962

The suspect in the shooting incident at the White House has been arrested at a hotel in Pennsylvania.

The Secret Service says a man has been arrested on suspicion of firing a bullet at the White House.

“On Wednesday afternoon at approximately 12:35 p.m. EST, based on information generated by Secret Service agents from the Pittsburgh Field Office, Pennsylvania State Police Troop A located and arrested Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Herndandez at a hotel near Indiana, Pennsylvania,” said a statement from Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan.

“Ortega-Hernandez is currently in the custody of the Pennsylvania State Police,” Donovan added.

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255 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:33:28am

Just glad they got him quickly. Good detective work.

2 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:34:59am

I've seen claims that he was 'obsessed' with the White House, but no real backstory or source for that.

It would be 'funny' if he wasn't shooting at Obama or anyone else, but at the White House itself.

3 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:38:17am

I do not expect a lot of reasoned thinking behind his actions, just the reactions of a mentally deranged person.

4 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:39:52am

re: #2 Obdicut

I've seen claims that he was 'obsessed' with the White House, but no real backstory or source for that.

It would be 'funny' if he wasn't shooting at Obama or anyone else, but at the White House itself.

Kind of like a really well-kept up Amityville Horror or something?

The mind of the insane is unfathomable.

5 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:42:38am

I would think that shooting the POTUS inside or on the grounds of the WH is virtually impossible....can't be done

6 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:43:37am

Sorry to go OT at only comment 6, but I warned you. I warned you all:

There will be math.

Image: IMG_2320b.JPG

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:44:09am

Not to threadjack, but one of my students has sent me an essay that begins as close to "I was born a poor black child" as makes no difference, except that he's not black, and the sentence is not that well written.

8 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:47:05am

re: #6 EmmmieG

Sorry to go OT at only comment 6, but I warned you. I warned you all:

There will be math.

Image: IMG_2320b.JPG

As long as I can eat the 2/3 and the 3/4, I will not complain about the math.

9 jaunte  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:48:03am

re: #6 EmmmieG

Will you be serving any ice cream conic sections?

10 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:49:24am

re: #9 jaunte

Will you be serving any ice cream conic sections?

No. This is second grade math, but I do like your idea. I'll have to remember that. (I have older kids who will be running into the volume of cones later, but if I get the food now, it will be eaten now.)

11 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:50:45am

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

Not to threadjack, but one of my students has sent me an essay that begins as close to "I was born a poor black child" as makes no difference, except that he's not black, and the sentence is not that well written.

Steve Martin fan?

12 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:51:19am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Steve Martin fan?

I was thinking Michael Jackson, but, whatever.

13 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:54:11am

Killgore - were there any OWSers in the area at the time of the shooting?

14 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:54:26am

The video at the link says the bullets found have not been connected to the shootings Friday. Just a matter of time and investigation? Or another start for the wingnut rumor mill?

15 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:54:51am

re: #12 Alouette

I was thinking Michael Jackson, but, whatever.

The Jerk

It was never easy for me. I was born a poor black child. I remember the days, sittin' on the porch with my family, singin' and dancin' down in Mississippi...

16 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:56:08am

OT: Penn State's McQueary's putting himself in hot water; Penn State police say that McQueary never reported the alleged abuse to them.

"Absolutely not," State College Police Chief Tom King told NBC News when asked if McQueary had ever come to them with allegations concerning Sandusky, a former defensive coordinator for the Penn State football team.

"We don't have any records of him coming to us," King said.

McQueary, now an assistant football coach, wrote in a Nov. 8 email to a friend that he stopped an alleged sexual assault by Sandusky on a 10-year-old boy in 2002 and discussed it with police afterward.

"I did stop it, not physically ... but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room ... I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police .... no one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30-45 seconds ... trust me," he wrote.
The contents of the email were reported Tuesday by The Patriot-News, The Associated Press and other media outlets.

Someone's lying here, and the end effect may be to undermine the case against Sandusky.

[deleted]

17 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:56:37am

re: #13 Talking Point Detective

Killgore - were there any OWSers in the area at the time of the shooting?

He hasn't even posted on this thread. It's still being discussed a couple threads back if you really want to get into it.

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:57:54am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Steve Martin fan?

No, I don't think it was intentional.

He's a very nice kid, but we've been having trouble getting him sorted out. He keeps changing his mind about his family's socioeconomic status.

19 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:57:59am

re: #13 Talking Point Detective

Killgore - were there any OWSers in the area at the time of the shooting?

need some friction?...point taken
kinda blows up all the OWS butthurt

20 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:58:20am

re: #17 wrenchwench

He hasn't even posted on this thread. It's still being discussed a couple threads back if you really want to get into it.

Nah - not worth it, really.

21 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:59:04am

Well...with a name like that can we rule out
a "TEA Partier"??/

22 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 11:59:43am

re: #16 lawhawk

OT: Penn State's McQueary's putting himself in hot water; Penn State police say that McQueary never reported the alleged abuse to them.

Someone's lying here, and the end effect may be to undermine the case against Sandusky.

[deleted]

But its not his fault!
/

Noebel Blames Gay Rights Advocates For Penn State Abuse Scandal

David Noebel, the founder of Summit Ministries, wrote a column in WorldNetDaily yesterday holding the Obama administration and supporters of gay rights responsible for the child abuse scandal at Penn State University. Noebel is a fierce critic of the Civil Rights Movement and a former leader of the Christian Crusade, the Religious Right group whose founder, Billy James Hargis, had his own sex scandal at his American Christian College. According to Noebel, the allegations that former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky molested dozens of children could serve witness to “the demise of moral relativism at the hands of liberalism's most cherished activity – homosexuality.”

However, Sandusky is married to a woman with children, and is not a homosexual. In fact, the American Psychological Association determined that “homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are,” and as Psychology Today notes, “no true pedophile is attracted to adults, so neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality applies.”

But Noebel contends that societal acceptance of homosexuality will ultimately lead to the acceptance of pedophilia, a claim frequently voiced in Religious Right circles, and argues that the Obama Administration is advancing the goals of pedophiles. “Not only is there a scandal at Penn State, but there is a scandal in the White House and the secretary of education’s office as well,” Noebel writes referring to Kevin Jennings, the openly gay, former administration anti-bullying czar who has been the focus of a right-wing smear campaign, “Only morally deficient individuals would allow Kevin Jennings within a million miles of children!”

Noebel concludes that Obama and Education Secretary Arne Duncan are just “as guilty as Jerry Sandusky” for appointing Jennings to the anti-bullying post, warning that the “Obama/Duncan/Jennings trio will violate millions of innocent children for decades to come.”

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:01:26pm

re: #21 reloadingisnotahobby

Well...with a name like that can we rule out
a "TEA Partier"??/

Maybe he's Cuban.

//This snark not intended to suggest that I think Cuban-Americans are all Tea Partiers, or prone to shooting at the White House.

24 Alexzander  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:01:50pm

re: #16 lawhawk

OT: Penn State's McQueary's putting himself in hot water; Penn State police say that McQueary never reported the alleged abuse to them.

Someone's lying here, and the end effect may be to undermine the case against Sandusky.

[deleted]

I'd put all my money on the Police being the liars.

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:03:50pm

re: #24 Alexzander

I'd put all my money on the Police being the liars.

Why? Everyone involved has something to lose from being the one who fucked up.

26 zora  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:04:23pm

I think McQuery is taking a lot of heat for doing almost nothing as a response to catching Sandusky in the act and is lying about what actions he took at the time.

27 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:04:45pm

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But its not his fault!
/

Noebel Blames Gay Rights Advocates For Penn State Abuse Scandal

Obama and Duncan's fault for one man's molestations? So much for that famed conservative "personal responsibility." But yes Noebel let's use molesting of boys to smear gays just like we should smear heterosexuals whenever a man molests a girl. Damned heterosexual agenda! ///

28 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:05:57pm

I'm always surprised when child molesters survive the experience of getting caught red handed. People have more self control than I would have suspected otherwise.

29 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:06:18pm

re: #21 reloadingisnotahobby

Well...with a name like that can we rule out
a "TEA Partier"??/

I don't know what his name has to do with it, but who said anything about "Tea Partiers?"

30 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:06:46pm

From the details released so far the man is just another complete loon, I don't really see any political affiliations being relevant in this instance. The man shot a rifle at the White House itself, not at anyone in particular from what we have been told so far. I really can't think of anything you could do that screams "catch me before I hurt someone" any louder.

It sounds as though he might have even perceived this a way to get help, if so I hope he gets it...

31 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:06:59pm

re: #24 Alexzander

The police may have screwed things up, but unless someone came to them reporting these crimes, they wouldn't have acted in any fashion.

But for McQueary coming forward, no one would have known of the shower incident. Here, it's McQueary who's claiming that he directly informed the police, but the police deny that happened.

If someone can show that the police were informed, then the police there are in huge trouble. And it still doesn't absolve everyone else who knew or had reason to know of the alleged abuse from going forward to law enforcement to carry out an investigation.

32 Alexzander  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:10:19pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

Why? Everyone involved has something to lose from being the one who fucked up.

Because otherwise I suspect that McQueary would be facing charges himself too. Part of the story doesn't fit. The other possibility is that other university officials knew and turned a blind eye.

Why would he lie?

33 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:10:47pm

re: #26 zora

I think McQuery is taking a lot of heat for doing almost nothing as a response to catching Sandusky in the act and is lying about what actions he took at the time.

Yeah. He's the one people are focusing on in horror. Everyone else, they heard something, it could be a mistake, they sent it up the chain...but McQueary, IIUC, actually saw a child being raped, and sent it up the chain.

That's where people are going to stop thinking, "I might have done that, I could have made a mistake," and "WTF?"

34 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:10:53pm

re: #31 lawhawk

The police may have screwed things up, but unless someone came to them reporting these crimes, they wouldn't have acted in any fashion.

But for McQueary coming forward, no one would have known of the shower incident. Here, it's McQueary who's claiming that he directly informed the police, but the police deny that happened.

If someone can show that the police were informed, then the police there are in huge trouble. And it still doesn't absolve everyone else who knew or had reason to know of the alleged abuse from going forward to law enforcement to carry out an investigation.

Perhaps Mr McQueary remembers the name of the officer he spoke with ?!

35 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:11:00pm

re: #31 lawhawk

The police may have screwed things up, but unless someone came to them reporting these crimes, they wouldn't have acted in any fashion.

But for McQueary coming forward, no one would have known of the shower incident. Here, it's McQueary who's claiming that he directly informed the police, but the police deny that happened.

If someone can show that the police were informed, then the police there are in huge trouble. And it still doesn't absolve everyone else who knew or had reason to know of the alleged abuse from going forward to law enforcement to carry out an investigation.

Rule of thumb, if you talk to the police about a crime, get a contact number, case number, something.

36 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:12:32pm

re: #16 lawhawk

OT: Penn State's McQueary's putting himself in hot water; Penn State police say that McQueary never reported the alleged abuse to them.

Someone's lying here, and the end effect may be to undermine the case against Sandusky.

[deleted]

I heard the account of 'Victim #1' as told by his mother on the radio while driving home earlier. Absolutely heartbreaking.

The kid's life is shattered. He has to take meds to cope with what happened, he gets taunted and bullied at school about it and regularly has to leave school, and his mother said he burst into tears watching the Sandusky interview. She asked him why he was crying, and he said he was afraid that Sandusky would get away with it and go on to abuse other kids.

They'd better nail that son of a bitch to the fullest extent. And Penn State better see some punishment for letting it go on so long.

Those poor kids. Sandusky has ruined so many lives.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:12:38pm

re: #32 Alexzander

Because otherwise I suspect that McQueary would be facing charges himself too. Part of the story doesn't fit. The other possibility is that other university officials knew and turned a blind eye.

Why would he lie?

Because he's trying to clear his name by saying that he did contact law enforcement?

38 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:13:08pm

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rule of thumb, if you talk to the police about a crime, get a contact number, case number, something.

Also true when talking to Sallie Mae representatives.

39 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:13:25pm

Brown Likens Penn State Abuse Scandal To LGBT History Law

Remember that SB 48, mandating the celebration of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender history in all California schools for all children in all grades is now law. The outrage over the alleged pedophile acts of Sandusky is only matched by the gay silence over the pedophile acts of Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman and others. Why the extreme outrage, the absolutely rightful outrage, the absolutely correct outrage over the alleged acts of Jerry Sandusky, and yet this teaching about people who had similar interests, you’re gonna now celebrate them in our children’s schools, this is outrageous.

…

I want to make clear, that while there is outrage, rightful outrage, absolutely rightful outrage, sickeningly grievous outrage over the reports of the alleged acts of Jerry Sandusky on boys and young men, it is equally outrageous that gay activists want us to celebrate, in history, men who are known for similar acts in their own lives, be they consensual, or other.

40 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:13:46pm

Damn, only at post 35 in this thread and there are already three separate discussions going on, this place really makes my head hurt sometimes. :(

41 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:13:52pm

I'm sorry but something smells...If an adult walks in and witnesses this
type of behavior would they walk out and report to the police...or stand there till the police ARRIVE to take the perv/perp.. into custody and INVESTIGATE!! immediately!!
I'm afraid the perp would be a bit "worse for wear" had I been the wittness!

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:14:32pm

re: #36 makeitstop

he gets taunted and bullied at school about it and regularly has to leave school

Fuck.

A friend of mine's father committed suicide when she was thirteen.

Kids at school would make eye contact and then do the 'finger is a gun to head' thing.

How the FUCK do people raise children with so little empathy?

43 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:16:02pm

re: #40 ausador

Damn, only at post 35 in this thread and there are already three separate discussions going on, this place really makes my head hurt sometimes. :(

Care to start a 4th and discuss the positive aspects of the Chaos Gods?

44 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:16:41pm

re: #36 makeitstop

The kid's life is shattered. He has to take meds to cope with what happened, he gets taunted and bullied at school about it and regularly has to leave school, and his mother said he burst into tears watching the Sandusky interview. She asked him why he was crying, and he said he was afraid that Sandusky would get away with it and go on to abuse other kids.

WTF? Those bullies and the school get away with that?

45 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:16:53pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck.

A friend of mine's father committed suicide when she was thirteen.

Kids at school would make eye contact and then do the 'finger is a gun to head' thing.

How the FUCK do people raise children with so little empathy?

To some extent I think we pick up more empathy as we grow older because of our own life experience. It's easier to understand a broken heart when your own is a little scratched and dinged up.

Although also, some people are naturally more empathetic. Boy #3 was born to be empathetic. Ditto Boy #1. Boy #2? If I broke my leg he'd ask how long it would be before I could drive him to the store.

46 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:16:57pm

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rule of thumb, if you talk to the police about a crime, get a contact number, case number, something.

..or deflect guilt...and buy a bus ticket....

47 Alexzander  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:17:32pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

Because he's trying to clear his name by saying that he did contact law enforcement?

It would be beyond stupid to claim he spoke to the police if he didn't. It is probably criminal. I wonder if he could be so stupid.
The police have a lot more space for plausible deniability.
Enough has been dug up now that I'm sure it will all come out in the wash.

48 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:17:42pm

re: #46 reloadingisnotahobby

..or deflect guilt...and buy a bus ticket...

IT WAS THE ONE ARMED MAN!

49 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:18:25pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck.

A friend of mine's father committed suicide when she was thirteen.

Kids at school would make eye contact and then do the 'finger is a gun to head' thing.

How the FUCK do people raise children with so little empathy?

I have no idea how humans have devolved to the extent they have.

I keep thinking about that poor kid. He did nothing wrong, and he's suffering while Sandusky is justifying his disgusting behavior on national TV.

It's sad, and wrong.

50 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:18:49pm

Kids like adults can be so cruel and yet other kids can be so compassionate. I feel for these kids. That prick ruined their lives and fuck the people trying to blame homosexual acceptance for this too. We don't blame heterosexuality when people of the opposite sex are molested.

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:19:09pm

re: #49 makeitstop

I have no idea how humans have devolved to the extent they have.

I keep thinking about that poor kid. He did nothing wrong, and he's suffering while Sandusky is justifying his disgusting behavior on national TV.

It's sad, and wrong.

The wheels of Justice move slowly, but I have faith in their inexorability, in this case.

52 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:19:37pm

I can't imagine if I had been molested having to face my tormentor in court. It would be hell I imagine.

53 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:19:39pm

re: #49 makeitstop

I have no idea how humans have devolved to the extent they have.

I keep thinking about that poor kid. He did nothing wrong, and he's suffering while Sandusky is justifying his disgusting behavior on national TV.

It's sad, and wrong.

The kid's not putting it in the proper context. Think of all the kids Sandusky helped out and never molested. Thats makes everything all right.
///

54 Olsonist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:19:51pm

Unrelated, but in the shooting at Cal, the guy died of his injuries. He was a recent reentry/transfer student, 32 years old. The shooting was at Haas, the business school. Not much more is known.

I kinda thought it was a student since the administration has been slow in coming out with any details. I think it is going downhill from here.

56 elizajane  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:21:32pm

re: #44 000G

WTF? Those bullies and the school get away with that?

You don't have any kids in middle school, do you?

As for the would-be assassin and OWS, yesterday at Berkeley a man with a gun was shot and apprehended in the computer lab at Haas. The radio report that I heard this morning, on the right-wing talk station my bus driver favors, managed to imply (without actually stating it) that the shooter was some deranged Oakland occupier.

Did you see how OWS's favorability numbers have plummeted in the latest OWS poll? Even when the public agrees with the sentiment, the left manages to lose the messaging war. Wonder why that could be.

57 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:21:39pm

re: #49 makeitstop

I have no idea how humans have devolved to the extent they have.

I keep thinking about that poor kid. He did nothing wrong, and he's suffering while Sandusky is justifying his disgusting behavior on national TV.

It's sad, and wrong.

TV, the internet, video games and lack of decent parenting

58 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:22:39pm

re: #56 elizajane

You don't have any kids in middle school, do you?

As for the would-be assassin and OWS, yesterday at Berkeley a man with a gun was shot and apprehended in the computer lab at Haas. The radio report that I heard this morning, on the right-wing talk station my bus driver favors, managed to imply (without actually stating it) that the shooter was some deranged Oakland occupier.

Did you see how OWS's favorability numbers have plummeted in the latest OWS poll? Even when the public agrees with the sentiment, the left manages to lose the messaging war. Wonder why that could be.

I don't believe in middle school. It's cruel and unusual punishment.

59 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:23:37pm

The law of unintended consequences in action:

The Arizona Immigration Bill Seems To Have Created A New Swing State

The rumors are true, Rep. Chad Campbell, the Democratic leader of the Arizona state House, told TPM Wednesday: the state best known for Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the toughest immigration law in the land really is a swing state in 2012. And Democrats have SB 1070 to thank for it.

“I’d hesitate to say it was ever good that it was passed,” Campbell said in a sitdown interview. “Because of the damage it did to the community, damage to the economy. But I do think it motivated a lot of people, especially people in the Latino community, to get involved and it energized them.”

“If that’s the final outcome of it, so be it,” he added. “That’s a good thing, obviously.”

Campbell’s not the only one saying that. The Obama campaign has said Arizona can be a target next year, thanks largely to a fired up Latino base. It wasn’t supposed to be that way — Republicans in Arizona and nationally were eager for a fight with the White House over 1070, which has involved the Justice Department sweeping into Arizona to stop the law. That’s the exact sort of thing the tea party types and conservatives who helped push 1070 through hate the most, and there was a belief that by taking immigration into their own hands in the states, Republicans could show Obama as ineffective on the issue and take states like Arizona off the map.

That scheme appears to be heading down the road to failure, Campbell said. The architect of 1070, state Sen. Russell Pearce (R-AZ), became the first-ever Arizona legislator to be recalled earlier this month, and now Campbell says there’s a moderate and Latino voter base in Arizona that’s reemerged after 1070.

60 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:23:39pm

re: #57 albusteve

TV, the internet, video games and lack of decent parenting

Sadly right on all counts - especially the last one.

My old man would have laid me out cold if he caught me being that mean. Different generation.

61 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:25:08pm

re: #51 EmmmieG

The wheels of Justice move slowly, but I have faith in their inexorability, in this case.

I wish I could agree with you, but I don't. I think the judge who granted him unsecured bail is basically giving him the opportunity to commit suicide before he ever gets to trial. The judge, BTW is a volunteer at Sandusky's foundation. Unbelievable.

62 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:25:29pm

re: #58 EmmmieG

I don't believe in middle school. It's cruel and unusual punishment.

It was probably the toughest time for me. First month of seventh grade was nice enough but in time you start to lose the bonds with people you were tight with in elementary school and new cliques emerge. The worst I was bulled was in 7th and 8th grade. It was never physical since I wasn't a small kid but it got to the point where I wanted to kick the kid's ass so bad.

63 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:25:33pm

re: #58 EmmmieG

I don't believe in middle school. It's cruel and unusual punishment.

I think I heard something on This American Life where some people have seriously suggested getting rid of middle school and having kids do something else during that period of time, due to the mess that most people are doing that period of life. I have no idea if there's actual science backing that sort of reasoning up, though.

64 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:25:35pm

re: #60 makeitstop

Hard to engage in decent parenting when both parents (if both are there) are holding down multiple jobs just to make ends meet...

65 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:26:28pm

re: #48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

IT WAS THE ONE ARMED MAN!

thIIs is my garmonboZZZia

greEEen, is it's coLour

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:26:44pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

I can't imagine if I had been molested having to face my tormentor in court. It would be hell I imagine.

Times like this, I think of Ellie Nesler. Back in the early 90s she walked into a California courtroom, and shot the man who was accused of raping her son. It looked as though he was going to get off.

There were a lot of attempts to convince people she wasn't actually a folk hero. Didn't do much good.

67 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:27:01pm

re: #60 makeitstop

Sadly right on all counts - especially the last one.

My old man would have laid me out cold if he caught me being that mean. Different generation.

mine to, and I passed on the sentiment to my own son

68 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:27:13pm

re: #56 elizajane
It's all in the MATH...
Computer Lab...(Geek)
Haas..(Avocado)
Berkley...(Liberal Arts College)
..oh... and you heard on the bus!!(Environmentally conscious)
== OWS!!
Get it??
///

69 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:27:23pm

re: #61 _RememberTonyC

I wish I could agree with you, but I don't. I think the judge who granted him unsecured bail is basically giving him the opportunity to commit suicide before he ever gets to trial. The judge, BTW is a volunteer at Sandusky's foundation. Unbelievable.

I could go with suicide.

70 zora  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:27:41pm

here is an old interview with sandusky from the late 80's. he could have gotten a head coaching job at another university but says his second mile charity and the children are so important to him, etc.

Sandusky In The Past

Another Sandusky interview making the rounds, from decades ago, is hard to watch:

[Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...]

the guy at the end is in tears because sandusky ruined penn state not because of the children that were abused.

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:27:57pm

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

Times like this, I think of Ellie Nesler. Back in the early 90s she walked into a California courtroom, and shot the man who was accused of raping her son. It looked as though he was going to get off.

There were a lot of attempts to convince people she wasn't actually a folk hero. Didn't do much good.

I couldn't be a juror in such a case. I'm an emotional guy.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:28:15pm

re: #54 Olsonist

Unrelated, but in the shooting at Cal, the guy died of his injuries. He was a recent reentry/transfer student, 32 years old. The shooting was at Haas, the business school. Not much more is known.

I kinda thought it was a student since the administration has been slow in coming out with any details. I think it is going downhill from here.

Baruch dayan emet.

What a nightmare.

73 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:28:20pm

re: #59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The law of unintended consequences in action:

The Arizona Immigration Bill Seems To Have Created A New Swing State

Backlash! Reacción!

74 darthstar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:29:53pm

Was he looking for a coaching job?

75 zora  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:30:26pm

re: #74 darthstar

which one?

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:30:42pm

re: #63 Simply Sarah

I think I heard something on This American Life where some people have seriously suggested getting rid of middle school and having kids do something else during that period of time, due to the mess that most people are doing that period of life. I have no idea if there's actual science backing that sort of reasoning up, though.

There's actually enormous brain chemistry shifts happening at that point. I wouldn't be opposed to cutting a few years out, and using them for something else.

The problem is, they'd mostly have to do that in packs as well.

Young mammals. Mean.

77 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:31:49pm

The Fever Swamp responds with their usual Pavlovian predictability:

"Looks like an OWS to me but hey."

"Another OWS all-star."

"Typical right wing evangelical tea party gun nut no doubt. "

"No, his name is a dead give away, he is amish."

"I wonder if he used a Gunwalked weapon?"

"Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez
Obviously a member of the tea party/sarc"

Lest I be accused of cherry-picking, these are the first six responses exactly as posted.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:32:37pm

re: #77 Shiplord Kirel

The Fever Swamp responds with their usual Pavlovian predictability:

Lest I be accused of cherry-picking, these are the first six responses exactly as posted.

I think Freep deletes reasonable responses, the way some sites get rid of racism or profanity.

79 darthstar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:32:58pm

Okay...this guy looks like your average slacker.

He's not even scowling. What the fuck is up with that?

80 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:33:11pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

There's actually enormous brain chemistry shifts happening at that point. I wouldn't be opposed to cutting a few years out, and using them for something else.

The problem is, they'd mostly have to do that in packs as well.

Young mammals. Mean.

This wouldn't be a problem if we could just put them all to work in the textile mills!
/

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:33:38pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

There's actually enormous brain chemistry shifts happening at that point. I wouldn't be opposed to cutting a few years out, and using them for something else.

The problem is, they'd mostly have to do that in packs as well.

Young mammals. Mean.

apprenticeships


like, learning real skills and crafts instead of being warehoused with savage kids

(I was in the ACCELERATED PROGRAMS in middle school and it was still awful, hah, one of my saving graces was being bussed to the high school for math where everyone acted like reasonable people)

82 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:34:06pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck.

A friend of mine's father committed suicide when she was thirteen.

Kids at school would make eye contact and then do the 'finger is a gun to head' thing.

How the FUCK do people raise children with so little empathy?

Teens have very little empathy as a rule, they are so wound up with hormones and the angsty coming of age "oh my god I'm going to have to decide what to do 'for the entire rest of my life soon' thing that not much else penetrates. Those middle school years are the absolute worst, at least in high school some of them have gotten laid (really, not just locker room stories) and realized that the entire world does not actually revolve around sex.

I'm always surprised when people express shock at how brutal kids are to each other. Having been an underage, underweight, stutterer, wearing hand-me-down clothes during that period of my life I know exactly how mean things can be.

83 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:34:37pm

Anyone who says they were not bullied in Middle School, was one of the bullies.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:35:21pm

re: #79 darthstar

Okay...this guy looks like your average slacker.

He's not even scowling. What the fuck is up with that?

Slightly stoned? High on the love of a good woman?

Who is that?

85 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:35:47pm

re: #83 Alouette

I had a mullet and glasses, and weighed about 90 pounds, do the math :D

86 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:35:50pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

Slightly stoned? High on the love of a good woman?

Who is that?

White House shooter.

87 jaunte  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:36:13pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

He's the recently-captured hyphenated idaho-shooter.

88 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:36:29pm

Herman Cain: Attacking Iran isn't practical because it has mountains

I can't even address that statement. It has no basis in rational thought.

89 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:36:40pm

re: #85 WindUpBird

I had a mullet and glasses, and weighed about 90 pounds, do the math :D

1. [deleted word] hair
2. "Spider legs"
3. "Four eyes"
4. Family did not go to Florida for winter vacation

90 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:36:41pm

re: #81 WindUpBird

apprenticeships

like, learning real skills and crafts instead of being warehoused with savage kids

(I was in the ACCELERATED PROGRAMS in middle school and it was still awful, hah, one of my saving graces was being bussed to the high school for math where everyone acted like reasonable people)

my boy is a math wiz....he was bussed to WMU a couple of times a week for classes and loved it...got him into a college groove and he graduated with honors from UM....it works

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:37:03pm

re: #82 ausador

Teens have very little empathy as a rule, they are so wound up with hormones and the angsty coming of age "oh my god I'm going to have to decide what to do 'for the entire rest of my life soon' thing that not much else penetrates. Those middle school years are the absolute worst, at least in high school some of them have gotten laid (really, not just locker room stories) and realized that the entire world does not actually revolve around sex.

I'm always surprised when people express shock at how brutal kids are to each other. Having been an underage, underweight, stutterer, wearing hand-me-down clothes during that period of my life I know exactly how mean things can be.

I was bullied all through middle school, and I've taught middle school, but I can still be occasionally blown away at how utterly horrifically awful kids that age can be.

92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:37:31pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Herman Cain: Attacking Iran isn't practical because it has mountains

I can't even address that statement. It has no basis in rational thought.

Herman Cain's very astute foreign policy based on playing a lot of Super Nintendo games


Link can't get to Iran yet, we need the flute

93 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:37:32pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Herman Cain: Attacking Iran isn't practical because it has mountains

I can't even address that statement. It has no basis in rational thought.

The flatland of Afghanistan agrees Herm. :)

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:37:45pm

re: #86 Alouette

White House shooter.

Huh. That I would not have guessed. He looks like the guy who tries to make everyone else at Hillel eat his girlfriend's awful granola-soy casserole.

95 jaunte  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:37:56pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He is hanging on to some info from the briefings. Iran: difficult terrain.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:38:15pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Herman Cain: Attacking Iran isn't practical because it has mountains

I can't even address that statement. It has no basis in rational thought.

If only Hannibal had worked that one out. I mean, not Iran, but you get my point.

97 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:38:18pm

re: #79 darthstar

Okay...this guy looks like your average slacker.

He's not even scowling. What the fuck is up with that?

"The Jihadi Gaze"

98 Alexzander  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:38:43pm

RON PAUL!!

Ron Paul’s 19 percent in Iowa may indicate a path to the nomination

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

Actually it really wouldn't be surprising if RP won given the republican dissaray. Crazy times we live in.

99 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:38:46pm

re: #90 albusteve

my boy is a math wiz...he was bussed to WMU a couple of times a week for classes and loved it...got him into a college groove and he graduated with honors from UM...it works

It does, I really didn't go down the math route past high school (because art) but it was confidence building to be hanging out with the Big Kids in class

100 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:39:13pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Herman Cain: Attacking Iran isn't practical because it has mountains

I can't even address that statement. It has no basis in rational thought.

hey Herm..10th Mountain Div are some of toughest fighters...
dumb ass

101 Tumulus11  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:39:22pm

. He was still hyphenated when they arrested him.

102 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:40:06pm

re: #83 Alouette

Anyone who says they were not bullied in Middle School, was one of the bullies.

And even if you were bullied, there's still a decent chance you also found time to fill in as one of the bullies as well, at least on a part time basis.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:40:25pm

re: #101 Tumulus11

. He was still hyphenated when they arrested him.

The ungrateful bastard!!

104 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:41:06pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

Huh. That I would not have guessed. He looks like the guy who tries to make everyone else at Hillel eat his girlfriend's awful granola-soy casserole.

Compare to:

Image: a-ted-bundy-smiling1.jpg

105 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:41:10pm

It probably has extended my academic career a semester longer but becoming an English minor was a great thing for me if only for the reason I've started to read more literature. Picked up a collection of Cheever short stories last week and I just love his writing.

106 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:41:49pm

re: #101 Tumulus11

. He was still hyphenated when they arrested him.

ahahahahahaha

107 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:42:10pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

It does, I really didn't go down the math route past high school (because art) but it was confidence building to be hanging out with the Big Kids in class

and if he ever EVER flaunted his brains...well, he just didn't because he always knew somebody was smarter...he had the same humble attitude playing all-state football...the total package....BRAGGART!

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:42:45pm

re: #104 Obdicut

Compare to:

Image: a-ted-bundy-smiling1.jpg

Hmmm.

109 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:43:14pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not saying he's a Bundy-style dude, just that a happy, relaxed smile don't mean much.

110 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:43:43pm

"Shit! Sir, we've reached a mountain."
"Fuck. OK Men, the war is over. Go home."

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:44:20pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Shit! Sir, we've reached a mountain."
"Fuck. OK Men, the war is over. Go home."

"We need the shovel from dungeon six."

"Shit."

112 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:44:36pm

re: #109 Obdicut

I'm not saying he's a Bundy-style dude, just that a happy, relaxed smile don't mean much.

Bundy may have been a genius...for whatever that's worth

113 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:44:42pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Shit! Sir, we've reached a mountain."
"Fuck. OK Men, the war is over. Go home."

"Can we leave the game on? I think the battery backup is dead."

114 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:45:42pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Shit! Sir, we've reached a mountain."
"Fuck. OK Men, the war is over. Go home."

...Elephants???..Get the fuck out!!
Really?
That's not in MY Field Manual!!

115 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:46:27pm

re: #88 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Someone get him a topographical map. Any map (like one of Afghanistan, Iraq, or Pakistan, if you want to go with a current map, or any map relating to World War II (how about one of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Italy, or Germany). Or Korea.

And a clue.

Oh, and there's an invention called the airplane. It can fly over mountains. And missiles - ones that can go into suborbital trajectories to attack any spot on the planet within 30 minutes or your money back (the original money back guarantee).

[facepalm] - and I'm running out of double and triple facepalms to source the stupid that strong.

116 freetoken  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:46:37pm

Hmm... Alexander the Great went all the way to Pakistan... somehow the mountains of Iran didn't stop him.

117 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:47:03pm

re: #111 WindUpBird

"We need the shovel from dungeon six."

"Shit."

"OK, have a few towns build workers, then we can terraform the mountains after a few turns."

118 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:47:38pm

[Link: www.politico.com...]
A New Hermanism: "I'm not supposed to know anything about foreign policy."
Seriously, dude?

119 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:48:22pm

re: #109 Obdicut

I'm not saying he's a Bundy-style dude, just that a happy, relaxed smile don't mean much.

In certain contexts, it can have downright sinister connotations. See my #97.

120 freetoken  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:48:28pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

[Link: www.politico.com...]
A New Hermanism: "I'm not supposed to know anything about foreign policy."
Seriously, dude?

"I'm supposed to look cool in this fashionable head dress."

121 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:49:07pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

[Link: www.politico.com...]
A New Hermanism: "I'm not supposed to know anything about foreign policy."
Seriously, dude?

One could take that to the logical extreme and just say the President isn't supposed to know anything about any policy and just rely on his advisors for everything.

This is the man who hired Mark Block.

122 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:49:18pm

re: #111 WindUpBird

"We need the shovel from dungeon six to get our picks out and mine through."

"Shit."

/minecraft

123 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:49:49pm

re: #120 freetoken

"I'm supposed to look cool in this fashionable head dress."

I mean damn. I understand being more versed in domestic policies but to think you're not supposed to know foreign policy and be a presidential candidate are the words of an ignorant man.

124 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:50:07pm

re: #119 publicityStunted

I really think we mostly read that stuff into it.

125 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:51:43pm

The Soviet Union? Is that a union somewhere?
Northern Ireland? That's a country. I thought it was just a region.
Turkey? With mashed potatoes please.

126 freetoken  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:52:01pm

re: #123 HappyWarrior

He's a fashionista more than a Peronista.

127 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:52:57pm

re: #126 freetoken

He's a fashionista more than a Peronista.

He does wear a fedora a bit. Those are retro in a cool way though I prefer the more working class flat cap for rainy days such as today.

128 jaunte  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:53:12pm

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cain's bodyguards are now deciding who gets to ask him a question:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

129 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:53:23pm

re: #125 HappyWarrior

The Soviet Union? Is that a union somewhere?
Northern Ireland? That's a country. I thought it was just a region.
Turkey? With mashed potatoes please.

SEIU's parent organization.
The north end of south Boston.
Where the pilgrims came from.

130 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:55:56pm

re: #128 jaunte

Cain's bodyguards are now deciding who gets to ask him a question:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Nothing like getting the press in your corner, there, Herb.
/

131 Lidane  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:56:44pm

re: #36 makeitstop

They'd better nail that son of a bitch to the fullest extent. And Penn State better see some punishment for letting it go on so long.

Miami's football program got shut down for years for far less than this.

I'd shut down Penn State's football program for the same number of years that people knew about Sandusky and didn't nail him to the fucking wall.

132 jaunte  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:57:52pm

@BorowitzReport
Cain says his first task as President will be "to get bin Laden."

133 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 12:59:21pm

re: #132 jaunte

@BorowitzReport
Cain says his first task as President will be "to get bin Laden."

Not practical. Undersea trenches are very mountainous.

134 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:02:10pm

re: #132 jaunte

@BorowitzReport
Cain says his first task as President will be "to get bin Laden."

right after he stops China from getting nukes.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:02:38pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not practical. Undersea trenches are very mountainous.

Or, you know, trencherous.

I wouldn't mind a few bloopers, really, if he talked sense most of the time.

136 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:02:58pm

re: #134 HappyWarrior

Can he even get me my pizza in 30 minutes or less? /

137 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:03:55pm

re: #136 lawhawk

Can he even get me my pizza in 30 minutes or less? /

Never had Godfather's and from what I am told, I've dodged bullets.

138 freetoken  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:04:27pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

He's a hopeless case, as are almost all the GOP candidates.

139 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:04:50pm

Herman Cain, Diva

'Who brought me the water that I did not get?'

The guy loves being the Big Boss.

140 Lidane  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:05:20pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Never had Godfather's and from what I am told, I've dodged bullets.

Godfather's Pizza made the Tombstone pizzas you buy in the grocery store taste like hand-made, artisan pizza. It was utter shit, even worse than Domino's.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:06:02pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Never had Godfather's and from what I am told, I've dodged bullets.

The nearest one to me is down in Newark. I'm not going to bloody Newark, CA, to try some lousy pizza.

There's only five stores in California, total.

142 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:06:30pm

re: #140 Lidane

Godfather's Pizza made the Tombstone pizzas you buy in the grocery store taste like hand-made, artisan pizza. It was utter shit, even worse than Domino's.

I've heard it was worse than Pizza Hut which is Ground Zero for me as far as Pizza goes.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:07:37pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

The nearest one to me is down in Newark. I'm not going to bloody Newark, CA, to try some lousy pizza.

There's only five stores in California, total.

Also, by travelling a much shorter distance, I can go to Armadillo, or Zachary's, or hell, into San Francisco for Giorgio's, or Gaspare's, or Pizza Orgasmica, or Nizario's, or Blondie's.

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:08:04pm

re: #77 Shiplord Kirel

"Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez
Obviously a member of the tea party/sarc"

Um, kinda seld-defeating humor.

145 jaunte  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:08:11pm

re: #140 Lidane

Based on the tagline, they don't let you send it back:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

146 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:08:33pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, by travelling a much shorter distance, I can go to Armadillo, or Zachary's, or hell, into San Francisco for Giorgio's, or Gaspare's, or Pizza Orgasmica, or Nizario's, or Blondie's.

The best pizza place here I know of is Pasianos. Love it.

147 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:09:53pm

re: #146 HappyWarrior

The best pizza place here I know of is Pasianos. Love it.

Bronx Pizza in San Diego

148 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:10:29pm

re: #146 HappyWarrior

The best pizza place here I know of is Pasianos. Love it.

believe it or not, you can get a very good NY pie from at least three different places in ABQ....the best is 2 min from my house

149 Lidane  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:10:51pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

I've heard it was worse than Pizza Hut which is Ground Zero for me as far as Pizza goes.

That I remember, yeah.

For me, Domino's is ground zero for shit pizza, so anything worse than that isn't edible. Godfather's isn't edible.

150 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:11:41pm

re: #56 elizajane

You don't have any kids in middle school, do you?

No, but this is one of the reasons I will homeschool right there.

151 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:12:52pm

re: #148 albusteve

believe it or not, you can get a very good NY pie from at least three different places in ABQ...the best is 2 min from my house

Cool. Not really too many awesome places here but my favorite self made pizza has spinach, pepperoni, and feta on it.

152 aagcobb  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:13:01pm

re: #128 jaunte

Cain's bodyguards are now deciding who gets to ask him a question:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Fox News is too tough; he should only ask questions from Wingnut Daily reporters.

153 freetoken  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:13:04pm

If one watches the whole interview, around 4:50 in Cain says the "wealth gap" is the result of the policies of "this administration".

Well, that is kind of difficult, unless Cain believes that Obama is a Time Lord and has travelled back into time to affect the past.

154 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:13:32pm

I've got a wide selection of good pizza joints here in Northern NJ; Kinchleys, Nelly's and Mangia Trattoria are thin crust wonders, as are A Mano and Pizza Fusion. Heck, there's a small local chain (Brooklyn's Brick Oven Pizzeria) that's better than anything you'd find in the national chains.

155 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:13:53pm

re: #149 Lidane

That I remember, yeah.

For me, Domino's is ground zero for shit pizza, so anything worse than that isn't edible. Godfather's isn't edible.

I try to avoid ordering them. I never order PH but because it's cheap, it's the pizza of choice for on campus events.

156 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:14:03pm

John Stewart unloads on Penn State

157 Olsonist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:14:11pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

In your neck of the woods, you should try Gioa Pizzeria on Hopkins. Of course, there will be as much agreement on pizza as there is on OWS, ....
Except that in this case, I'm right.

158 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:14:37pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Cool. Not really too many awesome places here but my favorite self made pizza has spinach, pepperoni, and feta on it.

we have Mario's...
Sicilians via New York
it's the real deal
[Link: sanpedro.mariospizzaabq.com...]

159 freetoken  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:14:53pm

I'm glad to see all of you embracing good nutrition and eating lots of pizza vegetables.

160 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:15:33pm

re: #153 freetoken

If one watches the whole interview, around 4:50 in Cain says the "wealth gap" is the result of the policies of "this administration".

Well, that is kind of difficult, unless Cain believes that Obama is a Time Lord and has travelled back into time to affect the past.

He's an idiot if he really believes that since wealth inequalities have been going up since before Obama or either Bush were presidents.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:16:41pm

We used to have a place out in the Richmond, called Greco-Romana.

I went on my first date with my husband there.

They did good pizza. Also good pasta, good moussaka, good Greek salad, good most other stuff.

162 albusteve  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:16:53pm

re: #157 Olsonist

In your neck of the woods, you should try Gioa Pizzeria on Hopkins. Of course, there will be as much agreement on pizza as there is on OWS, ...
Except that in this case, I'm right.

Kragars guys don't offer pineapple...
that's one gold star

163 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:17:33pm

re: #157 Olsonist

In your neck of the woods, you should try Gioa Pizzeria on Hopkins. Of course, there will be as much agreement on pizza as there is on OWS, ...
Except that in this case, I'm right.

Just wait. We'll have OWS brand Pizza shops soon. Capitalism!

164 zora  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:19:28pm

it does not appear that the base is too concerned about cain's foreign policy ignorance. they are pissed that his comments during the same interview (the one with the lybia question) supported collective bargaining for public employee unions. i really don't think he understood 75% of the questions posed and was just saying shit off the top of his head.

165 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:20:31pm

re: #70 zora

the guy at the end is in tears because sandusky ruined penn state not because of the children that were abused.

Not necessarily. What we see is what the creators of the segment wanted us to see. We don't know if that guy first expressed his sympathy to children and only then complained about ruining of Penn State. There is a place for a cut there, when instead of the man we see some photo.

166 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:20:47pm

re: #164 zora

The GOP has given up pretense of being the foreign policy whizzes. Now it's just "Foreigners: can't trust 'em."

167 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:21:10pm

re: #164 zora

it does not appear that the base is too concerned about cain's foreign policy ignorance. they are pissed that his comments during the same interview (the one with the lybia question) supported collective bargaining for public employee unions. i really don't think he understood 75% of the questions posed and was just saying shit off the top of his head.

I think he's out of his depth in politics. It's showing more and more since he's emerged as a more top tier candidate.

168 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:21:15pm

re: #85 WindUpBird

I had a mullet and glasses, and weighed about 90 pounds, do the math :D

You do the math for me, geek!

/

169 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:21:29pm

For Portland:

[Link: starkstreetpizzaco.com...]
[Link: kensartisan.com...]
[Link: www.vincentesgourmetpizza.com...]
[Link: www.flying-pie.com...]

warning: I don't care about pizza orthodoxy :D

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:21:29pm

re: #164 zora

it does not appear that the base is too concerned about cain's foreign policy ignorance. they are pissed that his comments during the same interview (the one with the lybia question) supported collective bargaining for public employee unions. i really don't think he understood 75% of the questions posed and was just saying shit off the top of his head.

That's sort of my impression as well. Cain sounds like I've sounded at a couple of job interviews when I was younger, where I somehow got called in, but didn't know shit about what I'm being asked. Look calm and interested, and say something, anything.

I've never been hired on the strength of doing that, and I don't think Mr. Cain will either.

171 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:22:29pm

re: #166 Obdicut

The GOP has given up pretense of being the foreign policy whizzes. Now it's just "Foreigners: can't trust 'em."

Perry Campaign Says Foreigners Not Allowed At Town Hall Event

172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:22:43pm

re: #168 000G

You do the math for me, geek!

/

That literally happened to me, the thugs copying the homework before class, of course

theeeen later in the school year one of them was grievously injured in a bike accident and had his jaw wired shut


One of the happier days of my life :D

173 zora  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:24:53pm

re: #171 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry Campaign Says Foreigners Not Allowed At Town Hall Event

i was so hoping that was an onion link.

174 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:25:21pm

re: #172 WindUpBird

That literally happened to me, the thugs copying the homework before class, of course

theeen later in the school year one of them was grievously injured in a bike accident and had his jaw wired shut

One of the happier days of my life :D

I had a guy ask me for test answers during a test, multiple choice test. I jotted down letters at random and passed him the note. He got a C- and was happy with it.

175 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:26:47pm

re: #174 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

science!

176 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:29:58pm

re: #175 Sergey Romanov

science!

There was some silly movie from the late 80's where 2 rappers had to take the police exam for some reason. They spelled "ABBA CADABBA" the whole way down the test and got the highest score ever on record.

177 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:30:31pm

re: #64 ralphieboy

Hard to engage in decent parenting when both parents (if both are there) are holding down multiple jobs just to make ends meet...

Bullseye. Since the first postwar generation, and its model of a hardworking breadwinner keeping a couple kids in decent food and simple clothes, we have set kids up for the greatest rip-off imaginable. It was done by the family-friendly marketeers of the right with the unthinking help of the "Work Will Set You Free" left.
What we get is the 70-hour family workweek and a bunch of feral kids.

178 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:30:36pm

re: #138 freetoken

He's a hopeless case, as are almost all the GOP candidates.

ftfy

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:31:28pm

I was surprised when Skyrim actually loaded and then ran normally from the first attempt. However I'm embarrassed to say that after playing for 40 minutes or so I got literally stuck in an open space and {space} doesn't help.

180 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:32:11pm

re: #172 WindUpBird

his jaw wired shut

One of the happier days of my life :D

Ugh.

181 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:33:40pm

re: #171 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Any idea on who was hosting the event? All I have seen so far is that it was a defense contractor. If this is actually true, then I could see them restricting access for security reasons. How ever, if true, they should have held the Town Hall event at a site that didn't have such security requirements.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:34:05pm

re: #171 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry Campaign Says Foreigners Not Allowed At Town Hall Event

Their dubious justification for this intrusive screening was that the town hall host was a defense contractor.

And they were planning to tell some DoD secrets at the event, but only to real Americans?

183 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:36:36pm

re: #153 freetoken

If one watches the whole interview, around 4:50 in Cain says the "wealth gap" is the result of the policies of "this administration".

Well, that is kind of difficult, unless Cain believes that Obama is a Time Lord and has travelled back into time to affect the past.

Cain may know how to run a business but he doesn't know jack shit about the economy at large. See his remarks about the housing bubble right before it popped. "Nothing to see here, folks, liberal media just wants to scare you, move along!" Guy knows nothing but right-wing talking points as far as macroeconomics are concerned.

184 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:37:38pm

re: #169 WindUpBird

For Portland:

[Link: starkstreetpizzaco.com...]
[Link: kensartisan.com...]
[Link: www.vincentesgourmetpizza.com...]
[Link: www.flying-pie.com...]

warning: I don't care about pizza orthodoxy :D

Do they still have Escape From New York Pizza? That was good, back in the 80's.

185 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:38:20pm

re: #160 HappyWarrior

He's an idiot if he really believes that since wealth inequalities have been going up since before Obama or either Bush were presidents.

All he knows are CatoInstitute/KochBros style "free market" anti-communist bullshit talking points.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:39:48pm

re: #174 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I had a guy ask me for test answers during a test, multiple choice test. I jotted down letters at random and passed him the note. He got a C- and was happy with it.

One of my more bright and evil students managed to get half the kids in class to write that WWI started in 1849 on a test. He then erased that answer on his own paper.

187 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:39:56pm

re: #182 SanFranciscoZionist

Their dubious justification for this intrusive screening was that the town hall host was a defense contractor.

And they were planning to tell some DoD secrets at the event, but only to real Americans?

They were going to brief real Americans about how to deal with mountains.

188 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:40:22pm

re: #165 Sergey Romanov

Not necessarily. What we see is what the creators of the segment wanted us to see. We don't know if that guy first expressed his sympathy to children and only then complained about ruining of Penn State. There is a place for a cut there, when instead of the man we see some photo.

Is it one of these?:

Youtube Video
189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:41:19pm

re: #185 000G

I'm thinking we should create a new term for what you call anti-communism. Let anti-communism be that noble obvious notion that historically commie regimes were murderous. However McCarthyism, WACL and Beck really need a separate term.

190 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:41:40pm

re: #6 EmmmieG

Sorry to go OT at only comment 6, but I warned you. I warned you all:

There will be math.

Image: IMG_2320b.JPG

You already ate 3/8 of a cookie.

191 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:42:26pm

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

I was surprised when Skyrim actually loaded and then ran normally from the first attempt. However I'm embarrassed to say that after playing for 40 minutes or so I got literally stuck in an open space and {space} doesn't help.

I bought Oblivion last night since Steam had the deluxe edition on sale for $6.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:43:11pm

Great. Now one of my students is quoting Hannah Arendt.

(This might sound positive. It's...a little odd, in context.)

193 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:44:21pm

re: #177 Decatur Deb

Bullseye. Since the first postwar generation, and it's model of a hardworking breadwinner keeping a couple kids in decent food and simple clothes, we have set kid up for the greatest rip-off imaginable. It was done by the family-friendly marketeers of the right with the unthinking help of the "Work Will Set You Free" left.
What we get is the 70-hour family workweek and a bunch of feral kids.

I am not really understanding this. Who set whom up how now and who donedid what now?

194 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:44:27pm

re: #188 000G

I've got nothing against that segment, I just won't make conclusions about that former friend of Sandusky just because he is shown complaining about ruining of Penn but not about children. There are various innocent reasons for which the latter might have been omitted (if he ever actually did complain about children).

195 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:44:39pm

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

I was surprised when Skyrim actually loaded and then ran normally from the first attempt. However I'm embarrassed to say that after playing for 40 minutes or so I got literally stuck in an open space and {space} doesn't help.

Are you familiar with the console?

196 jaunte  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:44:57pm

Las Vegas’ new water park is literally the dumbest thing ever

Las Vegas developer: We need more family entertainment! Therefore it is imperative that we BUILD AN $18 MILLION WATER PARK! There is literally no other possible solution.

Citizens of Vegas: But the latest assessment of the declining water level in Lake Mead, from which Vegas gets its drinking water, suggests we could run out of drinking water in less than three years.

Developer: Can you put a price on quality time? Why do treehuggers hate the American family? This war on the family is so typical of your anti-natalist agenda.

Exeunt.

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:45:11pm

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I bought Oblivion last night since Steam had the deluxe edition on sale for $6.

Vot, you finished skyrim?//

198 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:45:44pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

Great. Now one of my students is quoting Hannah Arendt.

(This might sound positive. It's...a little odd, in context.)

I'll go with 'positive', unless the kid has been studying your LGF output and is playing you like a glass harmonica.

199 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:45:51pm

re: #193 000G

I am not really understanding this. Who set whom up how now and who donedid what now?

Your English American is progressing fantastically!

200 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:45:58pm

re: #197 Sergey Romanov

Vot, you finished skyrim?//

As soon as Steam has a special on it, I'll pick it up.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:46:18pm

re: #195 Varek Raith

No. Thanks. I kinda just installed and got into it. Stuck between a rock and a pheasant+rabbit and a pile of wood. Funny, I know.

202 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:46:56pm

re: #174 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I had a guy ask me for test answers during a test, multiple choice test. I jotted down letters at random and passed him the note. He got a C- and was happy with it.

haha genius :D

203 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:47:19pm

re: #201 Sergey Romanov

No. Thanks. I kinda just installed and got into it. Stuck between a rock and a pheasant+rabbit and a pile of wood. Funny, I know.

Well, if you hit the tilde key, type tcl and hit enter, you'll go through any object to get yourself unstuck. Simply type tcl again to return to normal.

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:47:27pm

re: #202 WindUpBird

haha genius :D

Kragar himself got an F on that test. //

205 Lidane  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:47:43pm

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

I was surprised this morning. The boyfriend put away Skyrim as soon as Gamefly delivered Saints Row The Third. When I left for campus he was already shooting drug dealers and doing all kinds of crazy shit.

I have a feeling he's going to be distracted for a while. Oh well. That's more time in the Star Wars The Old Republic beta for me. ;)

206 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:47:49pm

re: #203 Varek Raith

You my savior!///

207 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:48:12pm

re: #189 Sergey Romanov

I'm thinking we should create a new term for what you call anti-communism. Let anti-communism be that noble obvious notion that historically commie regimes were murderous. However McCarthyism, WACL and Beck really need a separate term.

Okay then, how would you define a workable distinction between good and bad anti-communism, then?

208 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:48:46pm

re: #196 jaunte

but think how great it'll look when Las Vegas is abandoned after societal collapse and the Water Wars

#veryfallout

209 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:48:51pm

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

You my savior!///

The console has saved me from getting unstuck in Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3.
It's a godsend.

210 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:48:57pm

re: #204 Sergey Romanov

Kragar himself got an F on that test. //

A-

211 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:48:59pm

re: #199 wrenchwench

Your English American is progressing fantastically!

Heh. Really?

212 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:49:20pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

Great. Now one of my students is quoting Hannah Arendt.

(This might sound positive. It's...a little odd, in context.)

Do tell.

213 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:49:29pm

re: #193 000G

I am not really understanding this. Who set whom up how now and who donedid what now?

It's a pretty free-form rant. My daughter just served the father of her 1 year old. She works 40+ per week. He pulled a 78 hour week as a 'manager trainee' after the Alabama law made the boss get rid of all his illegals. Admittedly, the 40-hour family week was mostly a middle class thing, but the unions made it work, for a while, there.

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:49:43pm

re: #207 000G

Okay then, how would you define a workable distinction between good and bad anti-communism, then?

That's what needs thinking. "Sorry, not tonight!"

215 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:49:59pm

re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A-

Show-off.//

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:49:59pm

re: #198 Decatur Deb

I'll go with 'positive', unless the kid has been studying your LGF output and is playing you like a glass harmonica.

My husband is telling me not to worry about it--at least this one can spell 'banality'.

217 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:51:45pm

So, Cain's foreign policy now consists of not attacking countries with mountains???
Lol, that's, what, like everywhere?

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:52:17pm

re: #212 000G

Do tell.

She's trying to use the 'banality of evil' phrase to explain how she didn't notice the poverty in Chinatown as a child, until they moved to a better neighborhood.

It's something that might actually work, in some sense, but you'd have to develop a social commentary that won't really fit into the parameters of this essay.

219 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:52:35pm

re: #208 WindUpBird

but think how great it'll look when Las Vegas is abandoned after societal collapse and the Water Wars

#veryfallout

I sense a new Kevin Costner movie in the making.

220 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:52:51pm

re: #217 Varek Raith

So, Cain's foreign policy now consists of not attacking countries with mountains???
Lol, that's, what, like everywhere?

We're going to fuck up Holland!

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:53:18pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband is telling me not to worry about it--at least this one can spell 'banality'.

Also, the last time someone studied my LGF output and attempted to play me like a glass harmonica, it was a coworker.

That was a weird day.

222 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:53:31pm

re: #211 000G

Heh. Really?

You must be practicing more than just here! "Who donedid what" is advanced American.

223 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:53:47pm

re: #220 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We're going to fuck up Holland!

They got a plan.
[Link: www.pri.org...]
/

224 elisabeth  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:54:24pm

re: #5 albusteve

Particularly when POTUS is in Hawaii at the time.

225 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:54:30pm

re: #213 Decatur Deb

It's a pretty free-form rant.

You should think about elaborating and writing a whole page about it some day. I still don't really understand but would like to.

226 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:55:44pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

I never liked Arendt's "banality of evil" concept. She has a lot more to offer.

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:56:18pm

re: #220 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We're going to fuck up Holland!

Been there, done that.

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:56:38pm

re: #226 000G

I never liked Arendt's "banality of evil" concept. She has a lot more to offer.

The only thing banal about Eichmann might have been his appearance. IMHO.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:56:57pm

re: #226 000G

I never liked Arendt's "banality of evil" concept. She has a lot more to offer.

Kid's seventeen--I doubt she knows more about Arendt than that.

230 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:57:17pm

re: #222 wrenchwench

You must be practicing more than just here! "Who donedid what" is advanced American.

Oh, thanks! And yes, I am in regular contact with Americans. My Lady is one.

231 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:57:37pm

re: #226 000G

I never liked Arendt's "banality of evil" concept. She has a lot more to offer.

Really? I thought it was a good observation about how guys like Eichmann operated.

232 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 1:58:41pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

Kid's seventeen--I doubt she knows more about Arendt than that.

That's no excuse! When Hanna Arendt was seventeen she had already founded her first philosophy club!

:P

233 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:00:36pm

re: #231 HappyWarrior

Really? I thought it was a good observation about how guys like Eichmann operated.

Hm. No. I think the banality she notices is simply the banality of nationalism. It doesn't account for the actual evil unique in National Socialism. For that it's better to read Jean Améry and others.

234 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:02:03pm

Saints Row 3 is awesomely over the top.

235 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:02:05pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, the last time someone studied my LGF output and attempted to play me like a glass harmonica, it was a coworker.

That was a weird day.

Heh. Do tell!

236 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:02:23pm

re: #231 HappyWarrior

Really? I thought it was a good observation about how guys like Eichmann operated.

Eichmann was an active and creative manager of extermination process. I don't know what's supposed to be banal about him. A mere bureaucrat he was not.

237 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:02:59pm

re: #233 000G

Hm. No. I think the banality she notices is simply the banality of nationalism. It doesn't account for the actual evil unique in National Socialism. For that it's better to read Jean Améry and others.

That''s a fair point but in my observations of Nazi leaders many of them were well adjusted individuals, some even family men and somewhat cultured yet murderers as well. I haven't read any Arnedt. Just know the famous phrase.

238 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:03:15pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, the last time someone studied my LGF output and attempted to play me like a glass harmonica, it was a coworker.

That was a weird day.

That was funny.
:P

239 Kragar  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:03:29pm

re: #223 Varek Raith

They got a plan.
[Link: www.pri.org...]
/

Obviously we need to preemptively invade Holland before they can render themselves impervious to our entire military arsenal.

240 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:04:43pm

re: #236 Sergey Romanov

Eichmann was an active and creative manager of extermination process. I don't know what's supposed to be banal about him. A mere bureaucrat he was not.

I think what she means by banality is that these guys weren't outwardly psychos. Look at Eichmann. He was raising a family when the Mossad got him. That's how I interpret banality. Perhaps not the best word though?

241 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:05:02pm

Today Delft, tomorrow the Republic of the Marshall Islands.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:06:13pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

Then it's normality of evil, if you will. I don't think "banality" fits.

243 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:08:30pm

re: #237 HappyWarrior

That''s a fair point but in my observations of Nazi leaders many of them were well adjusted individuals, some even family men and somewhat cultured yet murderers as well. I haven't read any Arnedt. Just know the famous phrase.

Arendt's observation is based on a false premise: That you have to identify either the state or the individual to be insane/evil. That's a false dichotomy. The actual dynamics between individual, society, and state, and how they change in time are much more complex than that.

Basically, Arendt makes some apt observations about nationalism and then makes false generalizations about the actual period of 1933-45. I don't think she ever gives a satisfactory account or explanation of the actual and unique evil developed in National Socialism.

244 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:08:37pm

re: #242 Sergey Romanov

Then it's normality of evil, if you will. I don't think "banality" fits.

As I said maybe not the right adjective but the premise I agree with. Evil has many faces.

245 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:11:33pm

re: #243 000G

Arendt's observation is based on a false premise: That you have to identify either the state or the individual to be insane/evil. That's a false dichotomy. The actual dynamics between individual, society, and state, and how they change in time are much more complex than that.

Basically, Arendt makes some apt observations about nationalism and then makes false generalizations about the actual period of 1933-45. I don't think she ever gives a satisfactory account or explanation of the actual and unique evil developed in National Socialism.

Yeah, I agree it's more complex than that for sure. I do need to read her works though. Just working off the quotation now. And I still need to get off my ass and reader Rise and Fall of the Third Reich amongst other things.

246 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:11:50pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

I think what she means by banality is that these guys weren't outwardly psychos. Look at Eichmann. He was raising a family when the Mossad got him. That's how I interpret banality. Perhaps not the best word though?

Arendt is just afraid of taking the human point of view, I am afraid.

She wanted to forgive.

247 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:13:11pm

re: #245 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I agree it's more complex than that for sure. I do need to read her works though. Just working off the quotation now. And I still need to get off my ass and reader Rise and Fall of the Third Reich amongst other things.

I really recommend Jean Améry for a more radical and somewhat darker perspective.

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:14:19pm

re: #235 000G

Heh. Do tell!

Oh, I'd been bitching about some conversations I'd been having to a coworker. A few days later, some new troll with an odd interest in me showed up, babbling about lesbians and the Bay Area.

Then Charles asked if I knew why the new troll was on my ISP address.

It was one of those great 'the calls are coming from inside the building' moments.

He was immensely apologetic, when I tracked him down. I don't think he was prepared for LGF's reaction to trolls.

249 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:14:21pm

re: #247 000G

I really recommend Jean Améry for a more radical and somewhat darker perspective.

Thanks. Will do.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:14:50pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously we need to preemptively invade Holland before they can render themselves impervious to our entire military arsenal.

By following Atlantis' example, and sinking.

251 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:15:40pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

about lesbians and the Bay Area.

o_0

252 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:46:03pm

re: #171 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry Campaign Says Foreigners Not Allowed At Town Hall Event

What. An. Asshole.

253 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 2:50:29pm

re: #208 WindUpBird

but think how great it'll look when Las Vegas is abandoned after societal collapse and the Water Wars

#veryfallout

Or the TV movie of 'The Stand.'

254 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 3:06:31pm

re: #253 makeitstop

Or the TV movie of 'The Stand.'

m-o-o-n, that spells Ron paul

255 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 16, 2011 8:28:57pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck.

A friend of mine's father committed suicide when she was thirteen.

Kids at school would make eye contact and then do the 'finger is a gun to head' thing.

How the FUCK do people raise children with so little empathy?

I'd guess most of the time they weren't trained to it by those raising them. We all have a bad side. Some maybe to a greater extent than others. Most of us get a grip on it and lead mostly good lives, but some don't.

Texas news item; couple has a bunch of adopted children. By all accounts, they're loving, kind, diligent in the performance of all duties pertaining to parenthood.

But one of the kids has his own plan for his life. Gets it into his head that he's a natural born killer. Scouts the neighborhood for likely victims, steals a gun and ammo, goes and shoots an old man dead and slits the wife's throat when his gun jams, leaving her for dead. In her wheelchair. Just because.
He'd not been tagged as insane. No prior record of crime or of aberrant behavior.

Parents have only so much influence on their kids. Whether it takes a village or not, the village gets a big vote. Maybe even the school hierarchy has a vote, but I'm a pessimist on how big a vote.

The child's own nature gets a really big vote.

And finally, going out on a limb---maybe the kid has his/her own vote? Maybe he or she decides?


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