The Suspected White House Shooter’s Right Wing Ideas

An anti-government religious fanatic who thinks Obama is the anti-Christ
Wingnuts • Views: 25,663

Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez has been charged with attempting to assassinate President Obama, and in light of the right wing blogosphere’s ongoing attempts to link Ortega to the Occupy Wall Street protests, it should be pointed out that what we know so far about his delusional ideas falls much more in line with right wing religious ideology: Idaho Man Threatened Obama, Officials Say.

Mr. Ortega-Hernandez’s family had reported him missing in Idaho Falls last month, after he drove away in the Honda Accord, the complaint said. The Secret Service has said it did not have Mr. Ortega-Hernandez on record as having made any threats against the president. But after the shooting, several acquaintances said he had been fixated on Mr. Obama.

Besides the one friend who told investigators that Mr. Ortega-Hernandez had said he believed the president was the “Antichrist” and that he needed to kill him, another friend said he stated “President Obama was the problem with the government,” was “the devil,” and that he “needed to be taken care of.” The second friend also said he appeared to be “preparing for something.”

Mr. Ortega-Hernandez has had legal problems in Idaho, Texas, and Utah, including charges related to drug offenses, resisting arrest and assault on a police officer, officials have said. He is said to be heavily tattooed, with the word “Israel” on his neck and pictures of rosary beads and hands clasped in prayer on his chest.

The crazy idea that President Obama is the anti-Christ is a very common meme on the religious right; here’s one of many articles at World Net Daily promoting this idiocy: Did Jesus actually reveal name of the ‘antichrist’?

The name that “Jesus revealed,” according to this article, is Barack Obama.

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682 comments
1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 8:57:44pm

Lone Gunman are fodder for the conspiracy Whackos™.

2 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 8:59:19pm

Connecting Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez to the right is a bit of a stretch IMO. He's a dangerous nut, simple as that.

3 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:00:54pm

An anti-government religious fanatic obsessed with Barack Obama, who thinks Obama is the anti-Christ. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that these are right wing ideas.

4 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:04:10pm

re: #2 NJDhockeyfan

who sounds exactly like the dangerous nuts at Worldnetdaily. Who are very right wing.

5 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:04:17pm

The anti-christ

Really?

I still have a hard time believing people really think there is such a thing.

6 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:06:01pm

re: #5 ggt

The anti-christ

Really?

I still have a hard time believing people really think there is such a thing.

There is an anti-Christ, I saw the movie!

7 freetoken  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:07:36pm

re: #2 NJDhockeyfan

I think it would be accurate to describe Oscar as someone embedded within, even marinated by, the milieu of American "talk-radio" culture that I would describe as hyper-religious reactionary fantasy.

Now, you might decry the association of "the right" (whatever you mean by that) with this reactionary culture, but over the past couple of decades it's been pretty clear that the JBS (as an exemplar) wing of the "right" as been ascending in their dominance over American conservatism since the time of Reagan.

8 laZardo  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:08:57pm

Gotta let my mom use the netbook.

Thanks for the tax info folks.

9 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:09:16pm

A bullet hit the White House. [Link: www.columbiamissourian.com...]
Fuck this jack ass. Who does he think he is?

10 Achilles Tang  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:09:34pm

re: #5 ggt

The anti-christ

Really?

I still have a hard time believing people really think there is such a thing.

No harder than believing there is something called evolution./

11 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:09:37pm

re: #9 prairiefire

A bullet hit the White House. [Link: www.columbiamissourian.com...]
Fuck this jack ass. Who does he think he is?

Napoleon, possibly.

12 Kragar  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:10:54pm

re: #3 Charles

An anti-government religious fanatic obsessed with Barack Obama, who thinks Obama is the anti-Christ. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that these are right wing ideas.

Obviously a lone wolf, with no ideological ties to anyone on the right, but likely influenced by various liberal teachings.
/

13 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:11:50pm

re: #5 ggt

The anti-christ

Really?

I still have a hard time believing people really think there is such a thing.

I don't fully understand what the concept is supposed to be, or if it's taken seriously by anyone who isn't crazy.

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:13:11pm

re: #12 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously a lone wolf, with no ideological ties to anyone on the right, but likely influenced by various liberal teachings.
/

I am going to say that 'the president is the anti-Christ' is generic enough I'm not going to read much into it without some more info.

15 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:13:20pm

re: #11 EmmmieG

Napoleon, possibly.

Napoleon had an AK-47?

16 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:14:39pm

re: #11 EmmmieG

Napoleon, possibly.

without a Waterloo . . .

so sad . . .

teehee

17 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:14:59pm

If Obama's the anti-christ. What the fuck were people like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin? I think the guy was a nut as a whole but the antichrist shit is something that's been much more of the right's anti Obama construct than the far left who merely see him as a corporate tool.

18 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:15:28pm

re: #15 NJDhockeyfan

Napoleon had an AK-47?

Okay. He's, um, a ninja pirate riding a zombie unicorn?

[Link: www.threadless.com...]

Look, if you're looking for logic, you'll be looking in the wrong place.

19 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:15:59pm

Fixed.

20 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:16:09pm

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't fully understand what the concept is supposed to be, or if it's taken seriously by anyone who isn't crazy.

like dark matter or anti-gravity.

sounds awful, has "negative" words I guess.

But really is just a different form of what we already understand --no?

No real value to be assigned.

why do humans need to categorize and value everyone?

21 freetoken  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:16:15pm

re: #17 HappyWarrior

That there is even an concept called "the Anti-Christ" that is held so dearly by such a significant fraction of the American populace is disturbing enough. It is quite telling of a people who are trying to escape the reality around them.

22 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:16:24pm

Rapture ready:

The web posting described Ortega-Hernandez, who is from Idaho, as 5 feet, 11 inches and 160 pounds, with brown eyes and black hair and with the following marks: "His right hand has a tattoo of three dots, he has a tattoo stating 'Ortega' on his upper back, a tattoo on his right chest of rosary beads and hands clasped in prayer, a tattoo of folded hands on left chest, and the words 'Israel' tattooed on left side of neck."

He was also obsessed with 11-11-11.

23 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:16:49pm

re: #18 EmmmieG

Okay. He's, um, a ninja pirate riding a zombie unicorn?

[Link: www.threadless.com...]

Look, if you're looking for logic, you'll be looking in the wrong place.

You don't have any to sell?

24 freetoken  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:17:12pm

re: #22 Gus 802

Rapture ready:

He was also obsessed with 11-11-11.

At least it wasn't 9-9-9.

25 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:17:45pm

re: #22 Gus 802

Rapture ready:

He was also obsessed with 11-11-11.

Numerology too?

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:17:56pm

re: #23 ggt

You don't have any to sell?

I have four underage sons.

No, there is no logic here.

Food, smelly socks, legos, nerf guns, random odors, but not much logic.

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:17:58pm

re: #22 Gus 802

Rapture ready:

He was also obsessed with 11-11-11.

The tats do not seem all that unusual. The craziness, yes.

28 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:18:30pm

re: #22 Gus 802

Rapture ready:

He was also obsessed with 11-11-11.

Has he mentioned the Mayan calendar yet?

29 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:18:33pm

The history books will forever state, "And in 2011, while an African American was president, a bullet hit the White House." Fuckin A, America. Is this the first time since 1812? Jack ass idiots.

30 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:18:35pm

re: #21 freetoken

That there is even an concept called "the Anti-Christ" that is held so dearly by such a significant fraction of the American populace is disturbing enough. It is quite telling of a people who are trying to escape the reality around them.

Well that goes without saying honestly but even if you believe the nonsense. Really Obama is the antichrist. Worst antichrist ever. As Aasif Mandavi once joked, this isn't a sleeper cell, it's a comatose cell.

31 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:18:42pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

The tats do not seem all that unusual. The craziness, yes.

Rosary beads?

Sorry, I don't see that as normal.

:0

32 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:18:59pm

re: #16 ggt

without a Waterloo . . .

so sad . . .

teehee

If his missing his Waterloo, I'll give him one:

Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)

33 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:19:20pm

re: #32 Lidane

If his missing his Waterloo, I'll give him one:

[Video]Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)

NO .No . NO!

34 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:19:32pm

re: #25 ggt

Numerology too?

I don't know if he was "officially" into numerology. But I read about the 11-11-11 part. According to his father...

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:20:23pm

re: #31 ggt

Rosary beads?

Sorry, I don't see that as normal.

:0

Rosary tattoos?

Not at all uncommon, especially among Latinos.

36 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:20:32pm

re: #32 Lidane

If his missing his Waterloo, I'll give him one:

[Video]Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)

Okay, I'll get the time machine, and you get your fashion police badge, 'kay?

We can fix this.

37 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:21:38pm

re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist

The tats do not seem all that unusual. The craziness, yes.

The tats aren't unusual but they are an indicator. Not unusual in the sense that most people that believe in the rapture and things don't go out and do these types of acts.

38 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:21:48pm

re: #34 Gus 802

I don't know if he was "officially" into numerology. But I read about the 11-11-11 part. According to his father...

Whackos™ always seem to be looking for meaning in all the wrong places and all the wrong ways.

Freaking awesome numerology in geometry and nature, if you ask me. Snail shells and all . . . oh wait, that might be science.

I forgot.

39 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:22:12pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

Rosary tattoos?

Not at all uncommon, especially among Latinos.

I know. I still think it's weird.

Being RC and all --well kind of.

40 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:22:29pm

re: #32 Lidane

If his missing his Waterloo, I'll give him one:

[Video]Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)

That is a band created by the anti-Christ!

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:22:48pm

re: #37 Gus 802

The tats aren't unusual but they are an indicator. No unusual in the sense that most people that believe in the rapture and things don't go out and do these types of acts.

"Rosary" and "Rapture" are the two things that don't seem to go together to me.

42 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:22:56pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

That is a band created by the anti-Christ!

Can't be they are blonde.

43 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:23:34pm

re: #42 ggt

Can't be they are blonde.

Does that mean there's a chance I am the AC then?

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:23:59pm

re: #39 ggt

I know. I still think it's weird.

Being RC and all --well kind of.

I always told the boys in my classes, if you're gonna get a tattoo, make it your mother's name, or the Virgin's. I don't care how in love you are with the girl, no way, nohow.

45 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:24:14pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

Does that mean there's a chance I am the AC then?

If you aren't, then I could be.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:24:42pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

Does that mean there's a chance I am the AC then?

Dunno. Is your last name Carpathia?

47 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:25:54pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

"Rosary" and "Rapture" are the two things that don't seem to go together to me.

I think he's nuts.

48 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:27:05pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno. Is your last name Carpathia?

First name Beelzebub?

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:27:10pm

re: #47 Gus 802

I think he's nuts.

Well, yes, I think you're right about that.

50 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:27:29pm

re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist

I always told the boys in my classes, if you're gonna get a tattoo, make it your mother's name, or the Virgin's. I don't care how in love you are with the girl, no way, nohow.

You ever hear the Johnny Depp tat story. Apparently he was in love with Winona Ryder and got "Winona forever" tattooed. It didn't last but Johnny got the "na" removed and now it's Wino forever. That'd work for me if I ever met a girl named Rumina. My tat has my birthday on it which isn't changing anytime soon heh. My cousin and her husband have tats in tribute to their kids which I think is neat.

51 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:27:44pm

I'm exhausted and I have Capital Letter combinations swimming in my head. FSLIC, SAIF, DIF, NCUA, HERA, FDIRA, FDICIA, CFTC,

NIght all!

52 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:28:09pm

re: #49 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, yes, I think you're right about that.

The shooting incident also took place on 11-11-11. He also thought that would be the day the world would end.

53 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:29:18pm

re: #52 Gus 802

The shooting incident also took place on 11-11-11. He also thought that would be the day the world would end.

Did he wait until 11:11 to pull the trigger?

54 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:30:00pm

re: #53 NJDhockeyfan

Did he wait until 11:11 to pull the trigger?

AM or PM?

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:30:03pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior

You ever hear the Johnny Depp tat story. Apparently he was in love with Winona Ryder and got "Winona forever" tattooed. It didn't last but Johnny got the "na" removed and now it's Wino forever. That'd work for me if I ever met a girl named Rumina. My tat has my birthday on it which isn't changing anytime soon heh. My cousin and her husband have tats in tribute to their kids which I think is neat.

One of my students said that if you get a tattoo it should be your parents names, your kids, or your own, because those were the people you would always love no matter what. I also encouraged the boys, if they HAD to get ink to get religious themes.

I just love the Bad Hebrew Tattoos.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:30:51pm

re: #52 Gus 802

The shooting incident also took place on 11-11-11. He also thought that would be the day the world would end.

If the world was going to end that day, why did he need to shoot at the White House? Wasn't it going to get destroyed with everything else?

57 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:31:14pm

re: #54 Gus 802

AM or PM?

Was it day or night when they heard the shots?

58 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:32:08pm

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't fully understand what the concept is supposed to be, or if it's taken seriously by anyone who isn't crazy.

Sigh. The "anti-christ" was Nero and/or any other Roman Emperor depending on when a particular apocalypse was written. But we got stuck with a topical politically partisan book accepted as "scripture" because a different Emperor (Constantine in this case) wanted) a STANDARD bible and, in those days, apocalypses were popular literature. Rather like Harlequin romances these days. Thus the canon of the bible needed one and John's got picked. Why? Damned if I know, but probably it was viewed as the least obscure and least likely to cause trouble. Which if true is a reason to get down on our knees for major prayers of thanksgiving!

Anyone seriously thinking that Revelations has anything to do with this world or the future needs a rubber room, badly, before they hurt themselves or others.

But then, I'm just a librul christian. What am I supposed to know?

59 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:32:15pm

re: #57 NJDhockeyfan

Was it day or night when they heard the shots?

I thought it was towards the evening.

60 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:33:12pm

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

If the world was going to end that day, why did he need to shoot at the White House? Wasn't it going to get destroyed with everything else?

I was thinking the same thing. You can't explain the mind of a crazy person.

61 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:33:18pm

re: #59 Gus 802

I thought it was towards the evening.

Given that time actually moves minute by minute across the face of the earth as it turns, and does not jump by an hour (we created the time zones for human convenience, it was 11:11 somewhere. Two somewheres, actually.

62 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:33:42pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my students said that if you get a tattoo it should be your parents names, your kids, or your own, because those were the people you would always love no matter what. I also encouraged the boys, if they HAD to get ink to get religious themes.

I just love the Bad Hebrew Tattoos.

I very much considered a Celtic cross myself . I consulted the same cousin who told me to my disappointed they've been co-opted by white supremacists and while I think they're beautiful crosses still. I do NOT want to give the wrong impression so I ended going with the Irish brigade flag emblem by and large and got my b-day in roman numerals on the top. For the Gaelic phrase I have, I researched carefully. Agree with the students about parents and kids. My best friend and his siblings have one in honor of hteir mom.

63 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:33:51pm

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

If the world was going to end that day, why did he need to shoot at the White House? Wasn't it going to get destroyed with everything else?

He was trying to put it out of its misery early. Spare it the indignity of...was it having an aircraft carrier dumped on it?

64 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:34:22pm

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

If the world was going to end that day, why did he need to shoot at the White House? Wasn't it going to get destroyed with everything else?

That would make too much "sense."

//

65 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:34:50pm

re: #59 Gus 802

I thought it was towards the evening.

Then his watch must have been wrong. He blew it and the end of the world will now have to wait until next year.

66 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:35:36pm

I'm about to fall asleep. Later gators!

67 Gus  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:35:37pm

re: #61 EmmmieG

Given that time actually moves minute by minute across the face of the earth as it turns, and does not jump by an hour (we created the time zones for human convenience, it was 11:11 somewhere. Two somewheres, actually.

Well yeah. So technically the end of the world would have been 11-11-11 UTC.

68 Big Joe  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:38:20pm

Never get a tattoo in a language you are not native to, and never get a tattoo without spell check.

69 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:40:36pm

Funniest tat error I've seen for what it's worth was on failbook. Fleshy arm tattoo of Jimi Hendrix but with the words, Bob Marley written below. Now, I wonder two things. How do you get Jimi and Bob's appearances mixed up if you're a music aficionado? Two, the artist had to have known it was wrong, right? In my experience of getting a tat, the artist prior to your appointment takes sometime to plan out the artwork.

70 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:40:49pm

re: #68 mracb

Never get a tattoo in a language you are native to, and never get a tattoo without spell check.

It should be legally required to show those sites to teens thinking of getting a tattoo.

You'll look like an idiot.

71 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:43:34pm

re: #48 NJDhockeyfan

First name Beelzebub?

Thinking more like Vigo (the Carpathian)...

72 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:43:51pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

Holy Mackerel.

Well, at least only Jews know what a screw-up they are, because the rest of us won't be able to tell.

73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:46:12pm

re: #68 mracb

my tattoo is just abstract arty things I drew myself #itsmylanguagethatonlyispeak :D

74 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:47:12pm

re: #73 WindUpBird

my tattoo is just abstract arty things I drew myself #itsmylanguagethatonlyispeak :D

Snort. My tattoo is where my daughter wasn't paying attention with her pencil.

My husband wouldn't believe me when I told him it wouldn't grow out. Oh well, I'd have to point it out for you to see it.

75 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:48:13pm

re: #74 EmmmieG

Snort. My tattoo is where my daughter wasn't paying attention with her pencil.

My husband wouldn't believe me when I told him it wouldn't grow out. Oh well, I'd have to point it out for you to see it.

ow! *_*

76 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:48:33pm

re: #73 WindUpBird

my tattoo is just abstract arty things I drew myself #itsmylanguagethatonlyispeak :D

That's pretty cool. I want my next one to be something fun involving one of my favorite animals but I can't draw to give an artist an idea of what I'd want.

77 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:49:43pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

That's pretty cool. I want my next one to be something fun involving one of my favorite animals but I can't draw to give an artist an idea of what I'd want.

all the tat art I've done for other people (like 4 or 5 people over the years), I've usually just sat down with the person and thumbnailed it out until they start liking what they see, it's a process :D

78 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:51:23pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

all the tat art I've done for other people (like 4 or 5 people over the years), I've usually just sat down with the person and thumbnailed it out until they start liking what they see, it's a process :D

Yeah maybe I just need to articulate what I want. What's also been difficult is finding Eastern European symbols since I want that for my left shoulder to match my Irish tat on my right.

79 freetoken  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:52:01pm

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't fully understand what the concept is supposed to be, or if it's taken seriously by anyone who isn't crazy.

That's an interesting thought, especially given that a significant fraction of American "conservative" or "evangelical" Christians do indeed take the concept seriously.

80 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 9:56:53pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

That is a band created by the anti-Christ!

That guitar he's playing looks like hell.
/

81 windsagio  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:02:20pm

re: #74 EmmmieG

I had a pencil tattoo for a while from when a classmate stabbed me with a pencil in middleschool. It eventually faded :D

(Still in seattle, got a kindle for my BD, happy!)

82 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:03:37pm

re: #81 windsagio

I had a pencil tattoo for a while from when a classmate stabbed me with a pencil in middleschool. It eventually faded :D

(Still in seattle, got a kindle for my BD, happy!)

Well, let's see, it's been about eight years.

Still waiting.

If this is the worst thing she ever does to me, I'm good.

83 windsagio  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:03:58pm

re: #70 EmmmieG

so coming in late, did you edit that to take out 'not' or did he edit 'not' in.

The tattoos in chinese or japanese always make me especially laugh :D

84 windsagio  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:04:56pm

re: #82 EmmmieG

Mine was a pinpoint really, and its been... 23 years? (Now depressed).

85 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:06:06pm

re: #83 windsagio

so coming in late, did you edit that to take out 'not' or did he edit 'not' in.

The tattoos in chinese or japanese always make me especially laugh :D

Hunh. He edited, but my brain had filled in the not for him.

86 windsagio  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:06:33pm

also, kids are exhausting, I have trouble conceiving dealing with these things all day every day.

87 Mocking Jay  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:07:05pm

re: #81 windsagio

I had a pencil tattoo for a while from when a classmate stabbed me with a pencil in middleschool. It eventually faded :D

(Still in seattle, got a kindle for my BD, happy!)

Which Kindle?

88 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:07:10pm

re: #81 windsagio

I had a pencil tattoo for a while from when a classmate stabbed me with a pencil in middleschool. It eventually faded :D

(Still in seattle, got a kindle for my BD, happy!)

Happy Birthday!

89 Big Joe  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:07:35pm

re: #83 windsagio

so coming in late, did you edit that to take out 'not' or did he edit 'not' in.

The tattoos in chinese or japanese always make me especially laugh :D

I had to add the 'not' as an edit because I can't type as fast as my brain dictates. I always drop words.

90 windsagio  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:09:22pm

re: #87 JasonA

One of the small kindle Touches.

91 Mocking Jay  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:10:09pm

re: #90 windsagio

One of the small kindle Touches.

Ah. Enjoy! I got myself a Nook a few months ago and I don't really have the desire to pick up paper books anymore.

92 windsagio  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:11:01pm

re: #91 JasonA

Ah. Enjoy! I got myself a Nook a few months ago and I don't really have the desire to pick up paper books anymore.

I'm actually pretty stoked, I read a TON of old public domain books all the time at work on my smartphone, but it'll be nice to have something to read 'em on that doesn't make me want to tear my eyes out.

93 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:11:23pm

re: #86 windsagio

also, kids are exhausting, I have trouble conceiving dealing with these things all day every day.

The amount of work it takes to deal with one two year old must be experienced to be understood.

94 Mocking Jay  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:11:47pm

re: #92 windsagio

I'm actually pretty stoked, I read a TON of old public domain books all the time at work on my smartphone, but it'll be nice to have something to read 'em on that doesn't make me want to tear my eyes out.

Egads, I've never had the desire to read that much on my 3.7" screen.

95 windsagio  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:16:50pm

re: #94 JasonA

Egads, I've never had the desire to read that much on my 3.7" screen.

After they took away free Adult Swim on demand, I haven't had many choices.

The nights are LOOOONG. But this is gonna be much much much better.

re: #93 EmmmieG

That it what I figured out (yesterday actually) yes :D My sister has a 1 and a 4 year old, and since I'm the uncle that almost never visits, they were especially all over me. Fun, but *#(&$ exhausting :D

96 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:18:34pm

re: #92 windsagio

I'm actually pretty stoked, I read a TON of old public domain books all the time at work on my smartphone, but it'll be nice to have something to read 'em on that doesn't make me want to tear my eyes out.

I've been doing that since I got my iPad 2 for my birthday. Lovely little machine.

97 laZardo  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:22:30pm

Okay so...

Mom talked to uncle and she insists she will have to list it as income since my share is going directly into her account.

98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:31:55pm

re: #2 NJDhockeyfan

Connecting Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez to the right is a bit of a stretch IMO. He's a dangerous nut, simple as that.

Sounds like one of yours.

99 freetoken  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:32:16pm

re: #97 laZardo

Okay so...

Mom talked to uncle and she insists she will have to list it as income since my share is going directly into her account.

That just sounds wrong, no matter what you uncle says.

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

What can be excluded from gifts?
The general rule is that any gift is a taxable gift. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. Generally, the following gifts are not taxable gifts.

Gifts that are not more than the annual exclusion for the calendar year.
Tuition or medical expenses you pay for someone (the educational and medical exclusions).
Gifts to your spouse.
Gifts to a political organization for its use.

If your gifts to your mother are less than $13,000 then they meet they criteria I bolded.

100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:33:07pm

re: #58 wlewisiii

Sigh. The "anti-christ" was Nero and/or any other Roman Emperor depending on when a particular apocalypse was written. But we got stuck with a topical politically partisan book accepted as "scripture" because a different Emperor (Constantine in this case) wanted) a STANDARD bible and, in those days, apocalypses were popular literature. Rather like Harlequin romances these days. Thus the canon of the bible needed one and John's got picked. Why? Damned if I know, but probably it was viewed as the least obscure and least likely to cause trouble. Which if true is a reason to get down on our knees for major prayers of thanksgiving!

Anyone seriously thinking that Revelations has anything to do with this world or the future needs a rubber room, badly, before they hurt themselves or others.

Haha tell that to a Premillenial Dispensationalist.

Then run!

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:50:05pm

re: #97 laZardo

Okay so...

Mom talked to uncle and she insists she will have to list it as income since my share is going directly into her account.

Tell her to ask one of the people at her bank. That just doesn't sound right to me.

102 freetoken  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:55:40pm
103 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 10:57:18pm

re: #99 freetoken

That just sounds wrong, no matter what you uncle says.

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

If your gifts to your mother are less than $13,000 then they meet they criteria I bolded.

Exactly. Also lazardo, if the worry is that the direct deposit leaves some kind of paper trail then stop that and start gifting cash instead. Still, it's not taxable income until it hits the threshold freetoken outlined above.

104 tshinkle  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:02:28pm

The weird ability to connect dots on this site always cracks me up. For giggles, let's just stipulate that Oscar is a right wing nut. The last guy to actually kill a president was a left wing nut. So, anybody who has actually stepped away from their computer and onto a competitive field would want to look at the scoreboard: Right Wing Nut - 2 bullet holes; Left Wing Nut - 1 dead president.

Why stop there? One of the most iconic figures of the Left is Che Guevara. What's he killed...about 20,000?

Let's continue up the Left food chain: Kim Il Sung 2,000,000; Paul Pot - 3,000,000;Stalin - 25,000,000; Mao 60,000,000.

At least 2, maybe 3 of those guys are prominently shown at pretty much all OWS gatherings. I wonder how many pictures of Oscar are displayed at the local bible study meeting?

I'm sure someone here will try to make some strange connection from Christians to evil. In the meantime the scoreboard is Left Wing Nuts - 90,020,001 to Right Wing Nuts - 2 bullet holes.

105 BishopX  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:06:43pm

re: #104 tshinkle

Shit is someone christian here?

106 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:07:11pm

re: #104 tshinkle

cool story bro

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:07:51pm

re: #105 BishopX

Shit is someone christian here?

A CROSS UPON HER BEDROOM WALL
FROM GRACE SHE WILL FALL

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:11:17pm

re: #104 tshinkle

The weird ability to connect dots on this site always cracks me up. For giggles, let's just stipulate that Oscar is a right wing nut. The last guy to actually kill a president was a left wing nut. So, anybody who has actually stepped away from their computer and onto a competitive field would want to look at the scoreboard: Right Wing Nut - 2 bullet holes; Left Wing Nut - 1 dead president.

Why stop there? One of the most iconic figures of the Left is Che Guevara. What's he killed...about 20,000?

Let's continue up the Left food chain: Kim Il Sung 2,000,000; Paul Pot - 3,000,000;Stalin - 25,000,000; Mao 60,000,000.

At least 2, maybe 3 of those guys are prominently shown at pretty much all OWS gatherings. I wonder how many pictures of Oscar are displayed at the local bible study meeting?

I'm sure someone here will try to make some strange connection from Christians to evil. In the meantime the scoreboard is Left Wing Nuts - 90,020,001 to Right Wing Nuts - 2 bullet holes.

A classic.

Oddly enough, I agree that trying to attribute this nut to the right is probably fruitless.

The rest of your bizarre rant is fairly stupid, and has been done much better on this site.

109 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:28:55pm

Speaking of right wing religious fanatics, more anti-woman fail from the GOP:

In the wake of an Eaton County abortion clinic's Dumpster scandal, the state Senate passed a package of bills Oct. 20 to ensure the "dignified disposition of fetal remains."
But if the bills would treat fetuses with newfound dignity, they don't extend the same compassion to those especially vulnerable women who have lost pregnancies in clinics and hospitals.
Nobody's talking about the way this precedent-setting legislation, largely crafted by Right to Life of Michigan, would intrude into the hospital beds of women who suffer first-trimester miscarriages.
Women who have miscarriages in hospitals would have to sign forms deciding how the hospital should handle the remains, by cremation, interment or burial.
These options would newly involve funeral directors, or the option of using them, in situations where women aren't necessarily emotionally prepared to think they've "lost a baby," and where historically there's little precedent for doing so.
It also introduces the potential for new costs, not likely to be covered by insurance.


From The Detroit News: [Link: detnews.com...]

110 Lidane  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:29:43pm

re: #104 tshinkle

Boring troll is boring.

Try harder next time.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Nov 17, 2011 11:30:59pm

re: #110 Lidane

Boring troll is boring.

Try harder next time.

But....but...but....

This Ortega-Hernandez guy is the closest thing right wingers have ever produced to Stalin! Didn't you get that part?

//

112 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 12:03:18am

re: #104 tshinkle

Paul Pot

smh

113 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 12:15:02am

re: #112 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

smh

*dies*

114 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 1:13:32am

Meanwhile, the totalitarianism experts of the Right:

Mark Levin - The Hitler Youth Occupying Wall Street

Michael Savage - I Haven't Seen Nothing Like This Since The Communist Revolution Of 1917

115 researchok  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 1:28:20am

Morning, all

116 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 1:44:46am

Wow, trying to upding Charles just gave me a weird error:

Image: 4MDB2.jpg

117 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:22:13am

Morning Honcos.

118 AK-47%  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:22:57am

re: #104 tshinkle

Lee Harvey Oswald a "left-wing nut"? That is how he was painted, but the facts indicate otherwise.

This latest fellow is just another gun-toting lunatic, the sort that America seems to have no shortage of.

His political associations become pretty irrelevant in light of that, his brain is probably like a sponge that just takes on the color and odor of the environment surrounding him.

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:30:36am

Morning all!

120 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:31:51am

re: #119 ggt

Morning all!

Morning! Seen this?

121 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:34:55am
122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:36:40am

re: #120 000G

Morning! Seen this?

NO, I didn't.

Well, I read about Glass-Steagall and it's slow, painful destruction. Did you know the original legislation outlawed interest bearing checking accounts?

I read about the Free Banking Era --in which most banks were State Banks and failed within 5 years.

The Shadow Banking Scholarly paper is so scholarly, it may take a re-read of certain parts to totally digest it.

Fannie and Freddie aren't going away unless we have something to replace them with --which would take years and more patience than I have.

That's all I can remember now.

123 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:38:07am

re: #118 ralphieboy

Ralphie, we have to paint everyone with a RWNJ or leftie-commie label these days. Just yesterday I was at the store and some pinko-commie made me wait in line while they used coupons. If they got a part time job, they wouldn't need coupons. See?
///

124 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:42:07am

re: #122 ggt

NO, I didn't.

Well, I read about Glass-Steagall and it's slow, painful destruction. Did you know the original legislation outlawed interest bearing checking accounts?

No, I did not. But Glass-Steagall is full of surprises anyhow. I knew this already but then forgot about it until I recently rediscovered it: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The Shadow Banking Scholarly paper is so scholarly, it may take a re-read of certain parts to totally digest it.

Can you provide author and title (and maybe publication date and place)? What's the main gist?

That's all I can remember now.

The data base you mentioned also seemed interesting.

125 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:46:24am

Good Morning You People

126 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:46:38am

re: #124 000G

No, I did not. But Glass-Steagall is full of surprises anyhow. I knew this already but then forgot about it until I recently rediscovered it: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Can you provide author and title (and maybe publication date and place)? What's the main gist?

The data base you mentioned also seemed interesting.

I'll post the Shadow Banking Paper when I'm finished. There are some interesting bits to it.

Yeah, I have to create a database for anything I want to remember or think I'll need to reference.

Glass-Steagall hasn't totally gone away, it is interesting.

All the acronyms for the different Acts and such are confusing.

127 AK-47%  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:47:44am

re: #123 Cannadian Club Akbar

Right. Will simply behave as if everyone to the left of me is a Moonbat and everyone to the right of me is a Wingnut. And all are capable of, or rather prone to violent acts.

128 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:50:09am

Good morning everyone! What am I talking about?

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:50:19am

re: #124 000G

No, I did not. But Glass-Steagall is full of surprises anyhow. I knew this already but then forgot about it until I recently rediscovered it: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Can you provide author and title (and maybe publication date and place)? What's the main gist?

The data base you mentioned also seemed interesting.

Slapped in the Face by the Invisible Hand: Banking and the Panic of 2007.

130 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:50:21am

re: #127 ralphieboy

Right. Will simply behave as if everyone to the left of me is a Moonbat and everyone to the right of me is a Wingnut. And all are capable of, or rather prone to violent acts.

"Everyone that drives faster than me is an idiot and everyone that drives slower than me is a moron".
-George Carlin.

131 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:52:16am

re: #126 ggt

I'll post the Shadow Banking Paper when I'm finished. There are some interesting bits to it.

Thanks.

Yeah, I have to create a database for anything I want to remember or think I'll need to reference.

Would like to see some day.

Glass-Steagall hasn't totally gone away, it is interesting.

Yup. In a way, I think, the US is still battling the long-term effects of the Great Depression.

All the acronyms for the different Acts and such are confusing.

The laws are a maze, I agree. There's a reason US lawmakers are so often lawyers themselves. I think over here in Germany it's more often teachers, heh.

132 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:52:28am

re: #125 RogueOne

Good Morning You People

What do you mean, "You People?"

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:52:57am
135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:53:57am

re: #134 000G

[Link: www.google.com...]

lol what's up with that URL?

it should go right to the PDF.

Or you can google it.

136 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:54:52am

re: #135 ggt

it should go right to the PDF.

Or you can google it.

I edited #134. The Google URL doesn't really let me see the original URL. But thank you anyhow.

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:56:29am

re: #136 000G

I edited #134. The Google URL doesn't really let me see the original URL. But thank you anyhow.

frbatlanta.org

Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, I believe.

138 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:57:06am

re: #133 ggt

It was expanded into a book --also available on Amazon.

Hm. Author is one Gary Gorton:

AIG Financial Products sponsored a major study on the historical performance of commodity futures by Gorton and K. Geert Rouwenhorst.[2]

AIG's financial products division employed Gorton's models in calculating insurance rates for credit default swaps on residential mortgage-based collaterized debt obligations. [3] Gorton assured AIG managers that the models were sufficiently "robust" to maintain accurate CDS insurance rates even in adverse economic situations.[4] AIG's reliance upon his predictions contributed to the company's multi-billion dollar losses in the subprime mortgage crisis.

That's some credentials!

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:57:22am

Puppies got me up because they HAD to go outside.

Now they are sleeping, I'm going to join them,

Have a great morning all!

140 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:57:51am

re: #137 ggt

frbatlanta.org

Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, I believe.

Yes, I caught the domain. That's not the complete URL, though. Nevermind, minor thing. I will google. Thank you.

141 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:58:28am

re: #138 000G

Hm. Author is one Gary Gorton:

That's some credentials!

yeah! The paper is referenced quit a bit in other things I've read, so I figured I'd better read it. The version I linked is only 50-60 pages or so. The book is over 200.

142 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 2:58:51am

off to sleep

143 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:00:50am

re: #140 000G

Yes, I caught the domain. That's not the complete URL, though. Nevermind, minor thing. I will google. Thank you.

This is the problem: [Link: www.google.com...]

The annoying thing is replacing all the placeholder character chains.

Anyhow, it is [Link: www.frbatlanta.org...]

144 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:01:06am

re: #139 ggt

Puppies got me up because they HAD to go outside.

Now they are sleeping, I'm going to join them,

Have a great morning all!

"He who sleeps with dogs wakes up with fleas." Good night.

145 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:01:41am

re: #143 000G

The annoying thing is replacing all the placeholder character chains.

e.g. %2F with /

146 AK-47%  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:01:50am

Glass-Steagall reminds us of what we as a nation have to decide when it comes to our relationship to the Free Market (TM).

There is labor as a commodity to be bought and sold, and there is the social and moral value of working.

There is real estate as a commodity to be traded, and public home ownership as a social and moral goal.

147 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:03:41am

Speaking of dogs, this lady needs new ones:

148 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:07:44am

re: #147 RogueOne

Speaking of dogs, this lady needs new ones:

[Video]

She has a cat. Cat don't give a shit.

149 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:11:15am

re: #148 EdDantes

Doesn't she say something about the cat hiding under the bed? Hehehe. If you're brave enough my dogs will let you into the house but if you threaten my male the female will eat you alive. She'll let you take my stuff but she won't put up with someone scaring her boy.

150 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:20:55am

Occupy Wall Street Response Suddenly Causes Middle Class White People to See Law Enforcement In New Light
[Link: reason.com...]

At right is a picture of Keith Gessen, editor of the pro-OWS literary journal N+1 and author of All The Sad Young Literary Men, a readable bildungsroman about a gang of hyper-literate belly buttons who just want to be successful, and happy. In case you cannot tell, Gessen is being arrested in this picture, for protesting at Occupy Wall Street. I discovered the image on Twitter, where one can watch the revolution happen in real time. It was captioned thusly: "This is crazy. Skinny intellectuals are no danger."

It's unlikely that fat and/or stupid protesters are any more a danger than Gessen, but I see the captioner's point. Harmless, if obnoxious people, are getting the crap kicked out of them by cops at Occupy protests across the country. In Berkeley, one officer beat a young female student in the stomach completely unprovoked. In Seattle, police sprayed an inch-thick stream of pepper spray into a crowd, hitting an 86-year-old woman and an expectant mother, among others, square in their faces. Journalists who have never covered protests before, much less spent time on a police beat, are getting clubbed, gassed, and cuffed alongside their unwashed and unruly story subjects.

Read the whole thing...

151 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:25:29am

Man charged with trying to assassinate Obama 'believed he was Jesus on mission from God'
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

The suspected gunman who opened fire on the White House was charged Thursday with attempting to assassinate the President of the United States or his staff.

Idaho man Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez, 21, was arrested at a Pennsylvania hotel after he shot an assault rifle at the White House believing that he was Jesus and President Barack Obama was the Antichrist, according to court documents and those who knew him.

At one point, he even suggested to an acquaintance the president was planning to implant computer tracking chips into children. Meanwhile, details have emerged about further items found in Ortega's car, which included a baseball bat and brass knuckles.

Poor kid is a loon.

152 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:28:26am

This guy need a shirt that reads "I want a lawyer".
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:29:00am

Open wide!
Occupy Portland N17 Pepper Spray
Image: 10268528-standard.jpg

154 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:30:52am

re: #152 Cannadian Club Akbar

Very good. Makes identification much easier.

155 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:31:17am

Good Morning Honcos!!

Econ exam today. Anyone have questions about how the Fed operates or about America's "exorbitant priviledge"?

156 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:31:34am

re: #152 Cannadian Club Akbar

This guy need a shirt that reads "I want a lawyer".
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

You do have to appreciate the honesty.

157 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:33:21am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Open wide!
Occupy Portland N17 Pepper Spray
Image: 10268528-standard.jpg

That has to hurt

158 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:34:01am

re: #157 RogueOne

That has to hurt

Probably tastes awful too.

159 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:34:25am

re: #158 Killgore Trout

Probably tastes awful too.

Just a pinch between the cheek and gums...

160 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:35:36am

I missed the second half of the game last night. Tim Tebow sucks but god must really love him.

161 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:36:17am

re: #160 RogueOne

I missed the second half of the game last night. Tim Tebow sucks but god must really love him.

My Hokies pulled out another W in what should have been an easy game against UNC.

162 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:36:36am

re: #160 RogueOne

I missed the second half of the game last night. Tim Tebow sucks but god must really love him.

Like you read about.
//

163 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:37:45am

re: #150 RogueOne

Occupy Wall Street Response Suddenly Causes Middle Class White People to See Law Enforcement In New Light
[Link: reason.com...]

Read the whole thing...

The cops are is a tough spot. Liveleak had some grainy cell phone clips of the bloody protester being arrested in Zuccoti park yesterday. They tried to arrest him while being surrounded by protesters. Instead of the usual "snatch and grab" arrest it was a 5 minute tug of war between police and protesters. The kid was beat to hell and nearly torn apart in the prolonged struggle.

164 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:37:59am

re: #160 RogueOne

I missed the second half of the game last night. Tim Tebow sucks but god must really love him.

I'm buying you a Bronco's jersey with the number 15 on it and "Jesus" on the back.

165 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:39:39am

My next jersey.
[Link: aol.sportingnews.com...]

166 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:39:39am

re: #164 Cannadian Club Akbar

Anything with the word "jesus" on it might burn my skin a little. God has been out to get me for decades but luckily his aim sucks and I have someone else on my side.//

167 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:40:16am

re: #164 Cannadian Club Akbar

Some of the Bronco's wins do look like miracles. Just sayin'.

168 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:41:40am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I agree but it isn't like they've made it easy on themselves. Some of the officers went way over the line early. Being unnecessarily antagonistic is no way to win friends or influence people....

169 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:42:29am

re: #166 RogueOne

Anything with the word "jesus" on it might burn my skin a little. God has been out to get me for decades but luckily his aim sucks and I have someone else on my side.//

God has no time or interest in you. He has been kicking my ass for 35 years.
:)

170 tnguitarist  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:44:45am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Open wide!
Occupy Portland N17 Pepper Spray
Image: 10268528-standard.jpg

That's hilarious! Hopefully, they punched her in the face and kicked her in the balls right after the picture was taken //

171 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:45:56am

"What we're hearing about is teenagers utilizing tampons, soak them in vodka first before using them," Thomas said.

"It gets absorbed directly into the bloodstream. There's no barrier, there's no stomach acid to prevent it," Thomas said.

"I would expect it to absorb pretty quickly as well, because it's a very vascular structure," Quan told CBS 5.

"This is definitely not just girls," Thomas said. "Guys will also use it and they'll insert it into their rectums."

And that's not all.

"Using a beer bong rectally is the same concept as a vodka soaked tampon," Thomas said.

[Link: www.kpho.com...]

Get these kids some Tshirts found in #152.

172 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:46:51am

re: #170 tnguitarist

That's hilarious! Hopefully, they punched her in the face and kicked her in the balls right after the picture was taken //

You know, the hippies don't punch themselves.
//

173 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:47:13am

re: #171 Cannadian Club Akbar

I call shenanigans on that story. Utter BS.

174 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:48:21am

re: #173 RogueOne

I call shenanigans on that story. Utter BS.

Dude, it's on the intertubez. It must be true!!!

175 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:48:25am

re: #173 RogueOne

I call shenanigans on that story. Utter BS.

No it's true man. Some teenagers even gouge out their eyeballs to pour the alcohol in the eye-socket so it goes right to the brain! I read it on the interwebs!
//

176 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:48:48am

In reference to the Killgore photo:

The Moment When the Police Lost the Occupy Portland Narrative
[Link: blogtown.portlandmercury.com...]

Well, it turned. The police bureau is starting to crack after six weeks of Occupy Portland. And one picture, right here, crystallizes the precise moment when it happened.

During a choreographed effort to pull a few dozen protesters out of the Chase bank branch outside Pioneer Square, part of today's hundreds-strong N17 day of action, Portland police officers resorted to a decidedly more muscular show of force in a clash watched by TV cameras and rush-hour commuters earlier this evening. Suddenly all the fun—the dance parties, the union songs, the peaceful arrests earlier on the Steel Bridge and at Wells Fargo—was for naught.

Tromping in with mounted officers, they pushed marchers who had gathered on the sidewalks along SW Yamhill into the street—forcing them to block MAX trains, something no one was doing until the heavily armored riot squad showed up—and then poked and, for the first time, pepper-sprayed the marchers. Significantly, some of the spraying came after protesters had clearly retreated to the opposite sidewalk. (In another odd shift, there also was no federal-court-required verbal PA warning that chemical munitions would be deployed—a hallmark of every other mass police action to date.)

Meanwhile, at almost the very same moment, Police Chief Mike Reese was on TV blaming Occupy Portland for his officers' inability to respond to a rape victim for three hours today. Consider that tantamount to a declaration of war. Reese's point? Officers are tired and have been too distracted to do their main jobs: responding to actual crimes. It was an attempt to spin sentiment against the movement, which seems to be attracting adherents.

177 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:53:49am

re: #176 RogueOne

FTA:

One woman, Elmira, said she was also flashing peace signs and telling cops "I'm a peaceful protester," when officers started poking her with the butt of their very large batons. Twice she fell down, and twice she got up to flash the signs again, until a mounted cop (in an account I heard from two other witnesses who didn't know her, but saw it happen) tugged her to the ground by her hair. She got up again, and "that's when they pepper-sprayed me." She was pulled in by the crowd before she could be arrested and handed off to medics who were on hand for the protest.

I think I've seen that movie...

178 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:53:52am

re: #150 RogueOne

something happening here


what it is ain't exactly clear

179 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:54:49am

re: #178 WindUpBird

something happening here


what it is ain't exactly clear

Dirty Hippy!
//

180 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:54:53am

A Chicago attorney with 45 now-worthless free drink coupons valued at about $225 in savings has filed a lawsuit against Southwest Airlines over the company's recent decision to cease honoring the coupons, which had been awarded to customers for purchasing premium "Business Select" tickets and do not have an expiration date.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Heh.

181 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:54:55am

re: #178 WindUpBird

something happening here

what it is ain't exactly clear

There's a man with a gun over there.

182 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:57:07am

Back on topic for a minute, if President Obama is indeed the Anti-Christ, he is the worst ever!!! No rivers of blood, no locusts, no Moon turning red, no meteors destroying humanity, Nada!!! Worst.Anti-Christ.EVER.
//

183 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:57:42am

re: #178 WindUpBird

something happening here

what it is ain't exactly clear

Two songs to consider: For what it's worth and Revolution.

184 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:58:10am

re: #183 EdDantes

Two songs to consider: For what it's worth and Revolution.

Also, Crazy Train

185 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:58:33am

re: #182 rwdflynavy

Back on topic for a minute, if President Obama is indeed the Anti-Christ, he is the worst ever!!! No rivers of blood, no locusts, no Moon turning red, no meteors destroying humanity, Nada!!! Worst.Anti-Christ.EVER.
//

Dude. That's why he wants a second term.
/

186 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:58:56am

re: #185 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude. That's why he wants a second term.
/

Well played sir.

187 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:59:01am

re: #183 EdDantes

Two songs to consider: For what it's worth and Revolution.

re: #184 rwdflynavy

Also, Crazy Train

and Lets Start A Riot!

188 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 3:59:39am

re: #182 rwdflynavy

Another Obama failure! Can't even get being the anti-christ right. Sheesh.

189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:00:27am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

If that were water, the pressure behind that would hurt.

That picture helps OWS; doesn't help the cops.

I don't know what she said, but, frozen in time? That picture doesn't look good.

190 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:00:30am

re: #188 EdDantes

Another Obama failure! Can't even get being the anti-christ right. Sheesh.

He obviously wasn't paying attention at the Kenyan MOOSLIM Anti-Christ school he attended.
//

191 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:01:29am

re: #189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If that were water, the pressure behind that would hurt.

That picture helps OWS; doesn't help the cops.

I don't know what she said, but, frozen in time? That picture doesn't look good.

How the hell were the police supposed to know folks were taking pictures!!??
//

192 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:01:55am

re: #187 RogueOne

re: #184 rwdflynavy

and Lets Start A Riot!

I'm with you! Will there be wine? California preferably. Napa valley.

193 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:02:17am

re: #176 RogueOne

Police Chief Mike Reese was on TV blaming Occupy Portland for his officers' inability to respond to a rape victim for three hours today. Consider that tantamount to a declaration of war. Reese's point? Officers are tired and have been too distracted to do their main jobs: responding to actual crimes. It was an attempt to spin sentiment against the movement, which seems to be attracting adherents.

That article seems a little funky. The only other reference I could find to the rape thing: Occupy Portland: Police, protesters clash at downtown bank

Police Chief Mike Reese said the roving protest today went well, but he was concerned when people pushed into the street in places. "As long as folks are peaceful, we will continue to work with them," he said. He noted that his officers are tired and that the Police Bureau has had to "staff up" for the demonstrations, taking officers away from other work in the city and leaving them only to respond to emergencies. For instance, he said, a rape victim had to wait three hours before talking to an officer. "It was a long, long day," he said.

194 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:04:19am

General Electric, one of the largest corporations in America, filed a whopping 57,000-page federal tax return earlier this year but didn't pay taxes on $14 billion in profits. The return, which was filed electronically, would have been 19 feet high if printed out and stacked

these ridiculous rapists should be broken up like ma bell

oh, good morning! Our country is fucked!

195 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:04:30am

re: #192 EdDantes

I'm with you! Will there be wine? California preferably. Napa valley.

Yuppie riots are boring. Hybrids are too expensive to flip over and set on fire.

196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:06:01am

re: #194 WindUpBird

Somebody's accountant is getting a bonus!

197 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:06:55am

re: #196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Somebody's accountant is getting a bonus!

That's what I was thinking. I'd love to know what their accounting bill looked like. Probably only 34,000 pages long.

198 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:07:13am

BIG LIGHT BULB IS RIPPING US OFF!!!

199 sattv4u2  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:07:45am

re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar

BIG LIGHT BULB IS RIPPING US OFF!!!

Sorry, but the gov't banned those

You have to use the small squiggly ones now!
/

200 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:08:23am

re: #199 sattv4u2

Sorry, but the gov't banned those

You have to use the small squiggly ones now!
/

Not me. I've got some stashed. SUCKERS!!!

201 sattv4u2  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:08:49am

re: #200 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not me. I've got some stashed. SUCKERS!!!

Whats the knock on your door??

202 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:09:01am

re: #200 Cannadian Club Akbar

Same here. Every time I go shopping I pick up a pack or two.

203 sattv4u2  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:11:08am

re: #194 WindUpBird

these ridiculous rapists should be broken up like ma bell

OR ,, maybe the tax code should be altered (read: SIMPLIFIED) so companies like that can't hide behind legal deductions!

204 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:11:34am

re: #150 RogueOne

Occupy Wall Street Response Suddenly Causes Middle Class White People to See Law Enforcement In New Light
[Link: reason.com...]

Read the whole thing...

Heh:

The responses of police departments and Democrat-run municipalities is causing a much needed paradigm shift. The Occupy Wall Street movement is composed largely of people who have never before been cuffed to anything but a headboard, if that. Many of them are white, and some of them are probably urban gentrifiers, which means their previous attitudes toward police likely ranged from indifferent to fond. And now those same cops, who used to only screw with blacks and hispanics, are suddenly going after highly educated, well-bred, pale-faces, AKA "skinny intellectuals."

This is not how police are supposed to work seems to be the prevailing sentiment. Also: Some crimes are worse than others, and blocking a street is not one of the bad ones. Which crimes are worse, and why, is a great question for OWS supporters to consider.

This is apropos:

Woman Gets Jail For Food-Stamp Fraud; Wall Street Fraudsters Get Bailouts

The total "cost" of her fraud was $4,367. She has paid the money back. But paying the money back was not enough for federal Judge Henry Wingate.

Wingate had the option of sentencing McLemore according to federal guidelines, which would have left her with a term of two months to eight months, followed by probation. Not good enough! Wingate was so outraged by McLemore’s fraud that he decided to serve her up the deluxe vacation, using another federal statute that permitted him to give her up to five years.

He ultimately gave her three years, saying, "The defendant's criminal record is simply abominable …. She has been the beneficiary of government generosity in state court."

Compare this court decision to the fraud settlements on Wall Street. Like McLemore, fraud defendants like Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and Deutsche Bank have "been the beneficiary of government generosity." Goldman got $12.9 billion just through the AIG bailout. Citigroup got $45 billion, plus hundreds of billions in government guarantees.

All of these companies have been repeatedly dragged into court for fraud, and not one individual defendant has ever been forced to give back anything like a significant portion of his ill-gotten gains. The closest we've come is in a fraud case involving Citi, in which a pair of executives, Gary Crittenden and Arthur Tildesley, were fined the token amounts of $100,000 and $80,000, respectively, for lying to shareholders about the extent of Citi’s debt.

Neither man was forced to admit to intentional fraud. Both got to keep their jobs.

Anita McLemore, meanwhile, lied to feed her children, gave back every penny of her "fraud" when she got caught, and is now going to do three years in prison. Explain that, Eric Holder!

[Link: www.rollingstone.com...]

205 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:11:47am

re: #194 WindUpBird

57,000 pages? That longer than Tolstoy's War on Peas. which I read twice.

206 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:12:21am

re: #203 sattv4u2

these ridiculous rapists should be broken up like ma bell

OR ,, maybe the tax code should be altered (read: SIMPLIFIED) so companies like that can't hide behind legal deductions!

Why do you hate accountants?
//

207 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:12:44am

re: #199 sattv4u2

Indeed.

208 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:12:47am

We've talked about this before:
A woman found naked, bound and hanging in her boyfriend's Southern California mansion might have been murdered, according to a prominent pathologist.

That inconclusive finding contradicts the investigations of two police departments and a medical examiner who ruled that Rebecca Zahau killed herself in July just days after her lover's son died from a fall while she was babysitting him in Coronado, Calif., according to CBS News.

Dr. Cyril Wecht revealed his grisly hypothesis to Zahau's family on the "Dr. Phil" talkshow on Tuesday.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Well, if it was on "Dr. Phil".....

209 sattv4u2  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:13:14am

re: #206 rwdflynavy

Why do you hate accountants?
//

I don't

I just hate 57,000 page documents!!

210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:13:54am

re: #197 RogueOne

That's what I was thinking. I'd love to know what their accounting bill looked like. Probably only 34,000 pages long.

I'll guaran-damn-tee you the law was followed to the letter too.

Accountant: "Here, Mr. GE Chairman. We were able to get your tax liability to zero."

Mr. GE Chairman: "That can't be possible. We had fourteen billion in profits."

Accountant: "Yes sir, but we took advantage of every legal tax break available and got the tax to zero."

Mr. GE Chairman: "Well, I don't think that's fair. Re-do the taxes and get us to a 40% tax liability."

Accountant: silence

Mr. GE Chairman: silence

Then? UPROARIOUS LAUGHTER!

211 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:14:16am

Showing hippy plumbers crack gets you a beating:

Image: police-officer-falling-protesters.jpg

212 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:14:47am

re: #210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll guaran-damn-tee you the law was followed to the letter too.

Accountant: "Here, Mr. GE Chairman. We were able to get your tax liability to zero."

Mr. GE Chairman: "That can't be possible. We had fourteen billion in profits."

Accountant: "Yes sir, but we took advantage of every legal tax break available and got the tax to zero."

Mr. GE Chairman: "Well, I don't think that's fair. Re-do the taxes and get us to a 40% tax liability."

Accountant: silence

Mr. GE Chairman: silence

Then? UPROARIOUS LAUGHTER!

Then they sport their monocles and drink port!!!

213 sattv4u2  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:16:23am

re: #205 EdDantes

57,000 pages? That longer than Tolstoy's War on Peas. which I read twice.

sounds corny!

214 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:17:15am

re: #212 Cannadian Club Akbar

Then they sport their monocles and drink port!!!

Like that elitist fucker, Mr. Peanut!!!
//

215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:19:16am
216 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:20:16am

re: #215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So sad. I was just sure they'd last forever.

Boy Toys grow up eventually...
//

217 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:20:29am

I wonder if people will be occupying GE's headquarters.

218 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:22:09am

re: #215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So sad. I was just sure they'd last forever.

She's 50. I think he's within his rights to trade her in for two 25 yr olds. State law.

219 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:23:13am

re: #213 sattv4u2

sounds corny!

I am cornholio! T.P for my bung hole!

220 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:24:08am

re: #171 Cannadian Club Akbar

The ancient Incans and Mayans used to use specially-crafted pipes and bellows to blow tobacco juice up each other's asses, because the nicotine gets absorbed quickly that way with no nasty tar getting into your lungs.

Image: enema.jpg

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:25:17am

re: #161 rwdflynavy

My Hokies pulled out another W in what should have been an easy game against UNC.

Speaking of the Hokies.

Check this out.

222 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:26:58am

re: #220 Obdicut

The ancient Incans and Mayans used to use specially-crafted pipes and bellows to blow tobacco juice up each other's asses, because the nicotine gets absorbed quickly that way with no nasty tar getting into your lungs.

Image: enema.jpg

I think we would need a special section in a bar for that. Just sayin'.
/

223 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:27:09am

re: #220 Obdicut

Thank you. I did not click on the jpg you posted.

224 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:28:51am

re: #223 EdDantes

Thank you. I did not click on the jpg you posted.

It's actually a very nicely done frieze that takes you a second to realize what the hell is going on. The dude looks very relaxed.

225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:29:15am

re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar

I wonder if people will be occupying GE's headquarters.

For me? That's the thing.

GE should not be bitched at for following the law and designing their financial system to reduce their tax burden. It is what companies do.

The law needs to be changed, otherwise? Evil corporations will keep on not paying taxes.

226 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:29:24am

re: #222 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think we would need a special section in a bar for that. Just sayin'.
/

"Rectal or oral?"

227 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:31:11am

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

For me? That's the thing.

GE should not be bitched at for following the law and designing their financial system to reduce their tax burden. It is what companies do.

The law needs to be changed, otherwise? Evil corporations will keep on not paying taxes.

Agree. But people pick and choose who they are outraged over. I just want consistency.

228 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:31:39am

re: #225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Which is why I want the corporate tax rate set to 0, and for us to focus on personal income taxes instead. Corporations are always going to spend shitloads of money on tax avoidance, and because of the complexity of their financial structure, they're always going to be quite successful if there's any complexity to the tax laws as well. In addition, corporate tax rates means the government tries to get fancy in promoting some industries over others by providing tax breaks, instead of either direct subsidies or some other form of support. Tax breaks makes it a lot harder to figure out how much money we're really channeling towards the corporations.

229 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:32:03am

Show of hands: Who clicked on jPG titled ENEMA?

230 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:32:09am

Local News:

Smoking ban gets unlikely support
Bar owners are behind measure that offers fewer exemptions
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

There are some bars you can smoke in and some you cannot. The bars that allow smoking are always packed. Looks like the bar owners are concerned that the free market ideals aren't working out like they planned.

A group called Save Indianapolis Bars plans to lobby council members to minimize exemptions so private clubs and other competitors don't gain a leg up. It counts about 1,300 bar owners, employees and patrons as members.

Two years ago, the group took out radio ads opposing an expansion of Marion County's 2005 smoke-free law. But many bar owners now see the writing on the wall.

"What we're looking at is trying to get them to not play favorites," said Brad Klopfenstein, the group's spokesman and managing partner of Claude & Annie's on the Far Westside.

"If it's a health issue that they're concerned about," he added, "exempting anybody pretty much says that it's not a health issue."

Some bar owners are preparing for "a horrible 2012," Klopfenstein said, with the smoking ban expected to cause lost business and, in some cases, bars to close.

Anti-smoking advocacy group Smoke Free Indy, which backs only the comprehensive plan so far, estimates 370 bars and other establishments still allow smoking. Most likely would be covered under an expanded ban.

231 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:33:37am

re: #229 EdDantes

Show of hands: Who clicked on jPG titled ENEMA?

Me. I'm also gonna print it out and the next time I apply for a job where they don't allow smoking, I'll show it to them. Then, when they don't hire me, I'll yell "oppression"!!!
///

232 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:34:11am

I always wondered where the phrase "blowing smoke up my ass" came from.

233 AK-47%  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:34:23am

re: #203 sattv4u2

these ridiculous rapists should be broken up like ma bell

OR ,, maybe the tax code should be altered (read: SIMPLIFIED) so companies like that can't hide behind legal deductions!

St. Grover of Norquist has made it clear that closing corporate tax loopholes is the same as a tax hike and is inconsistent with his "no new taxes" pledge.

234 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:35:08am

re: #228 Obdicut

Which is why I want the corporate tax rate set to 0, and for us to focus on personal income taxes instead. Corporations are always going to spend shitloads of money on tax avoidance, and because of the complexity of their financial structure, they're always going to be quite successful if there's any complexity to the tax laws as well. In addition, corporate tax rates means the government tries to get fancy in promoting some industries over others by providing tax breaks, instead of either direct subsidies or some other form of support. Tax breaks makes it a lot harder to figure out how much money we're really channeling towards the corporations.

This would cause businesses to move HQs to or back to the US as well.

235 AK-47%  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:35:19am

re: #209 sattv4u2

I don't

I just hate 57,000 page documents!!

Vote for Herman Cain: he will require by law that all tax returns should be no more than three pages...

/

236 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:36:15am

re: #235 ralphieboy

Vote for Herman Cain: he will require by law that all tax returns should be no more than three pages...

/

Big Potato Moth

237 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:37:33am

Wow. Baltimore police accused of conspiring to help murder a woman.

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

The mother of an abused wife whose husband murdered her outside a courthouse claims he was able to commit the crime because his "friends on the Baltimore City Police Department conspired with him to make certain he remained free despite a warrant for his immediate arrest."

Cleaven Williams Jr. was convicted of murdering his wife, Veronica, in 2009 and is in prison. He is named as a defendant along with the Baltimore City Police Department and its Officer Daniel Lioi, who was deputy major of the Baltimore Police's Eastern District at the time of the killing.

"Mr. William would have been easy to serve had any honest effort been made towards this end. He was a public figure well known to police as a community organizer and the president of the Greater Greenmount Community Association.

"Instead of using their prior knowledge of Mr. Williams to aid in his capture and arrest, police, including defendant Lioi, allowed themselves to be improperly influence by the prior relationship with Williams.

"Preferential treatment was afforded to Mr. Williams.

"First, the police, including defendant Lioi, intentionally and negligently failed to follow normal procedures in attempting to serve the warrant. Instead of sending it to a special domestic violence unit, Eastern District officers, who knew Mr. Williams, withheld the warrant so that they could retain control over whether or not it would be served.

"Second, officers, including defendant Lioi, warned Mr. Williams of the warrant and their feigned efforts to serve him, including, but not limited to, by sending him text messages. This allowed Williams to evade capture.

"Third, Mr. Williams contacted the police, including defendant Lioi, on November 14, 2008 and said he would come in, but when he arrived at the Eastern District precinct, the police, including defendant Lioi, purposefully refused to serve or arrest him, falsely claiming instead that the warrant allegedly could not be found. This was an intentional and malicious act, by the same officers who withheld the warrant from the domestic violence unit, for the purpose of allowing Mr. Williams to remain free despite the warrant."

The Baltimore Sun reported after the killing that a second warrant for Williams was also pending, in connection with a 2003 shooting, and that William's cousin Carlin Robinson, the lead plaintiff in this case, "said Cleaven Williams cultivated relationships with police and other civic leaders over the years ... [and] accused him of using those ties to dissuade his wife from going to authorities for help."

Veronica had to go into hiding while waiting for her husband to be arrested, but a court date on a protective order against Cleaven "provided a rare window of opportunity for Mr. Williams because he was provided with notice of the hearing and knew where Veronica would be at that time despite the fact that she was otherwise in hiding," according to the complaint.

On Nov. 17, 2008, a judge granted Veronica her the protective order, but "as Ms. Williams left the courtroom that day, Cleaven Williams attacked and stabbed her repeatedly. The stabbing took place in broad daylight just one block from the Eastside Court on North Avenue, Baltimore, Maryland," according to the complaint.

If that's true, that is probably the most fucked-up story I've read this year about corruption.

238 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:38:44am

re: #231 Cannadian Club Akbar

Even more reason my decision not to click on it was correct. You are all deviated preverts.

239 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:39:33am

Hoosiers are so polite even our protesters behave:

Occupy Indianapolis protesters tidy their site near Statehouse
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

Occupy Indianapolis protesters appear to have met the state's deadline to clean up their gathering location just east of the Indiana Statehouse's south steps.

An official from the Indiana Department of Administration said it was satisfied that the protesters would comply with the agency's demand Wednesday to clean up the area within 24 hours or face possible arrest.

Tables, lawn chairs, tents, sleeping bags and other paraphernalia that had been there since the protests began last month were being removed.

"They're working hard to comply," department Commissioner Rob Wynkoop said Thursday, adding that the situation will continue to be monitored.

One thing you won't see around here is protesters blocking people from leaving buildings or stopping cars like they were doing in NYC a week or so ago. 100 years of CC laws is one reason why we're so polite.

240 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:42:46am

More people defending their right to lie:

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

A clinic that counsels pregnant women not to have abortions sued the City and County of San Francisco over a law that would force them to pay fines if they make "untrue or misleading" statements.

The law, which San Francisco Mayor Edwin Lee signed on Nov. 4, is scheduled to take effect next month. Legislators who sponsored the bill hope it will curtail the actions of two pregnancy-crisis centers in San Francisco.

Claiming to provide medical care when you don't is fraud. I don't see how it can be viewed otherwise.

241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:45:43am

re: #228 Obdicut

Fuck yeah.

242 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:47:08am

Nite all. God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.

243 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:47:31am

re: #230 RogueOne

Local News:

Smoking ban gets unlikely support
Bar owners are behind measure that offers fewer exemptions
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

There are some bars you can smoke in and some you cannot. The bars that allow smoking are always packed. Looks like the bar owners are concerned that the free market ideals aren't working out like they planned.

So basically the non-smoking bars want to shut out their competition. What a surprise.

244 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:47:32am

re: #239 RogueOne

Tables, lawn chairs, tents, sleeping bags and other paraphernalia that had been there since the protests began last month were being removed.

Hippies!

245 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:50:23am

re: #242 EdDantes

Nite all. God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.

Good Night General Ripper.

246 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:51:28am

Commies!
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

247 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:53:01am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Commies!
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

We should have a stand that sells those hats. And Sno-Cones.

248 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:53:35am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Commies!
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

Looks asian....

249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:54:03am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Another tea partier with a stupid sign.

250 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:54:34am

re: #249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Another tea partier with a stupid sign.

and wearing a funny hat

251 RogueOne  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 4:56:32am

Time to get moving. Enjoy the day you people!

252 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:01:20am

re: #237 Obdicut

Wow. Baltimore police accused of conspiring to help murder a woman.

[Link: www.courthousenews.com...]

If that's true, that is probably the most fucked-up story I've read this year about corruption.

Wow, that's fucked up.

253 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:01:45am

Alright Lizards. Time to do some last minute studying for my Econ exam. I leave you with Nash equilibrium, the prisoner's dilemma and the Dutch disease. Discuss.
//

254 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:15:04am

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday from the wild north country. Today is rather warmer than the rest of the week has been, and that means only one thing: SNOW. Better double-check the snowblower again when I get home from work.

255 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:25:17am

Good morning from sunny Philadelphia. Sitting here with a cup of tea, a sleeping cat, and a day off from work.

256 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:28:37am

re: #255 oaktree

Good morning from sunny Philadelphia. Sitting here with a cup of tea, a sleeping cat, and a day off from work.

Your cat overlord is asleep and you're not sleeping yet? How can this be? They send out mighty powerful sleep vibes, you know.

257 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:29:36am

Good morning lizards!

I get to go to my daughters' school and have a turkey lunch with them in a little while.

258 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:30:46am

re: #257 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

I get to go to my daughters' school and have a turkey lunch with them in a little while.

The Mrs. Fish went whole hog and cooked a complete Thanksgiving dinner last night for my visiting parents. It was absolutely sublime. And, of course, I have some of the leftovers in my lunchbox for me to indulge in later on today. You may all envy me.

259 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:33:09am

re: #256 thedopefishlives

Your cat overlord is asleep and you're not sleeping yet? How can this be? They send out mighty powerful sleep vibes, you know.

Well mainly because the cat overlords got me up over an hour ago in order to serve them breakfast. So I'm catching up on things and running laundry while reading comments.

And awaiting the follow-up visit from the exterminators in a few hours...

260 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:33:24am

Speaking of turkey...

Occupy Turkey

Local residents are used to seeing raccoons, opossum and even the occasional deer.

But, wild turkeys?

A news report cited a wild turkey running after kids in Cherry Hill. And in Stafford, Ocean County, several birds were running amok on a highway and caused a car accident.

Now, it seems the towns of Cinnaminson, Palmyra and Riverton have become a bit overrun by wayward flocks of the gobblers.

Take a walk along Riverton’s Bank Avenue early in the morning, and 10 to 15 of the plump birds are seen charging between the front and back yards that border the Delaware River.

261 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:34:32am

re: #259 oaktree

Well mainly because the cat overlords got me up over an hour ago in order to serve them breakfast. So I'm catching up on things and running laundry while reading comments.

And awaiting the follow-up visit from the exterminators in a few hours...

Wow, your cat overlords have you well-trained. Of course, I am unable to hear my cat overlords from their kingdom of the basement when I am asleep on the second floor.

262 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:36:27am

re: #260 NJDhockeyfan
Obviously the Turkeys haven't looked at a calendar ...
...6 more days..

263 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:39:14am

re: #254 thedopefishlives

Yup...warm morning and snow on the way here in Utah...the equipment is ready but ...me...not so much!

264 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:40:07am

re: #263 reloadingisnotahobby

Yup...warm morning and snow on the way here in Utah...the equipment is ready but ...me...not so much!

Yeah, as I mentioned above, my parents are visiting from fish country, which is a fair ways south from the wild north country. They're rather displeased at having winter forced upon them prematurely.

265 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:43:02am

I'm certainly not going to go KT on this and blame the right for this crazy guy. But as a matter of defense against "he's a Democrat" smear it is fair to point out his ideas' right-wing roots.

266 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:45:19am

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

Still too early to know for sure, but he definitely could come by the anti-christ thing and the end of the world stuff semi-randomly.

It is worth pointing out just how fucking crazy WND is, though, with its speculation about Obama as the anti-christ, and that website is the source of and spreader of a lot of the right-wing nutty theories that often are repeated on the 'legitimate' news sites.

That is true with or without this guy shooting at the White House, though.

267 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:45:23am

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

I'm certainly not going to go KT on this and blame the right for this crazy guy.

Heh

268 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:45:27am

OWS Protesters Chant ‘Follow Those Kids!’ As Small Children Try To Go To School On Wall Street

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — They were caught in the middle of madness.

Some grade school students were forced to walk a gauntlet of screaming “Occupy Wall Street” protesters just to get to school on Thursday.

It was a wild day in lower Manhattan for most everyone involved, including elementary school children who had to brave the mayhem just to get to class on the other side of Wall Street.

In the middle of thousands of protestors yelling and chanting — some kicking and screaming – CBS 2’s Emily Smith found little school kids trying to get to class. Nervous parents led them through the barriers on Wall Street. The NYPD helped funnel the children, anything to ease their fears while some protestors chanted “follow those kids!”

“These guys are terrorists, yelling at little kids,” one father said.

“For them it’s horrible. They’re afraid of all the crowds. We’re not even able to get through. They’re just, he’s … very afraid now,” a mother added.

One protester followed a father and his little daughter all the way down the block. As the school day ended just after 3 p.m. children trickled out of Leman Manhattan Prep on Broad Street. Smith heard a 4-year-old boy telling his mom he was scared. He told Smith it looked like a parade.

“There was a parade. It was scary — crowded with school,” the boy said.

“After a while it got so bad some parents couldn’t get their children through and they had to go late,” said Gary Goldenstein of Tribeca.

Fucking assholes. Leave the kids alone.

269 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:45:49am

re: #264 thedopefishlives

How high are you Fish??
...in elevation that is....

270 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:45:52am

re: #260 NJDhockeyfan

Speaking of turkey...

Occupy Turkey

People don't imagine New Jersey as 'wild'. When we lived in Sussex County, it had more cows than people (still might?) and we had more than one case of bears snatching lunch from backyard BBQ grills.

271 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:46:28am

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

But seriously. I don't think he's a wingnut. It's a stretch too far for me to blame his ideas on WND or wingnuts. He's probably just a loon.

272 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:46:50am

re: #269 reloadingisnotahobby

How high are you Fish??
...in elevation that is...

LOL.
970 feet above sea level.

273 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:46:59am

re: #267 Killgore Trout

It is what it is.

274 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:47:21am

re: #270 Decatur Deb

People don't imagine New Jersey as 'wild'. When we lived in Sussex County, it had more cows than people (still might?) and we had more than one case of bears snatching lunch from backyard BBQ grills.

My mom lives in Springfield and they see deer clopping down the street every so often.

275 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:47:41am

re: #271 Killgore Trout

I'm not saying he's a wingnut either. But the roots of his lunacy are not left-wing (they sure could have been).

276 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:48:13am

re: #268 NJDhockeyfan

“These guys are terrorists, yelling at little kids,” one father said.

I want to live in that guys world, where terrorists just yell at kids.

277 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:48:39am

re: #271 Killgore Trout

But seriously. I don't think he's a wingnut. It's a stretch too far for me to blame his ideas on WND or wingnuts. He's probably just a loon.

He's alive, fortunately, so we'll get to hear his 'manifesto' statements over time. Bet a lot of phrases will be familiar.

278 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:48:43am

re: #271 Killgore Trout

But seriously. I don't think he's a wingnut. It's a stretch too far for me to blame his ideas on WND or wingnuts. He's probably just a loon.

That's what I said last night. It earned me 5 downdings :)

279 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:49:36am

re: #273 Sergey Romanov

I'm curious. Do you recall me blaming OWS for him? MAybe you should go back and look at my original post on the story about him being in the OWS camp. You might be surprised or you might just be dishonest. I can't tell.

280 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:49:52am

I can certainly imagine a crazy man targeting Obama because of lunatic ideas based of leftist ideas ("he's in the pocket of WS", "he's just a puppet of the capital", "he's a war criminal", blah, etc.).

281 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:50:02am

re: #274 NJDhockeyfan

My mom lives in Springfield and they see deer clopping down the street every so often.

Then there's the Pine Barrens, where the turf and people were both sort of wild.

282 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:50:27am

re: #278 NJDhockeyfan

That's what I said last night. It earned me 5 downdings :)

Stone the unfaithful monkey!

283 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:52:00am

Alright, the early morning crew has finally arrived. Time to shed my scaly hide and switch to asbestos.

284 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:52:59am

re: #279 Killgore Trout

No, your method regarding the whole of OWS was to blame the whole for a few unrelated lunatics. You might remember that your first outburst ('fuck you moonbats') was caused by an antisemitic rant of a mentally ill person who just happened to be near OWS.

You imply that I somehow implied that you implied an OWS connection to this would-be assassin guy, and that's not what I implied.

285 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:53:25am

re: #281 Decatur Deb

Then there's the Pine Barrens, where the turf and people were both sort of wild.

There are people in the Pine Barrens? I never ran into any. Love that desolation.

Image: pine-barrens-09.jpg

And echoes of them in this brilliant movie:

Image: georgia3.jpg

Image: millers-crossing-3.jpg

286 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:53:37am

Question: the guy who shot the white house - is he the one who had "Israel" tattooed on his neck?

287 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:53:52am

re: #278 NJDhockeyfan

That's what I said last night. It earned me 5 downdings :)

Matter of style and personality. If I had said it, I'd have 3 updings.

288 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:54:06am

re: #286 Thanos

Question: the guy who shot the white house - is he the one who had "Israel" tattooed on his neck?

I'd like to note again that Israel is a very common Hispanic name, and probably doesn't have anything to do with the country, or Jews.

289 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:55:32am

Let's set the mood for the day.

290 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:55:35am

Here's a crazy thought. Maybe attempts to characterize him as left wing or right wing, like other people who clearly have mental illness, should be seen for what they are: agenda-serving, exploiting, guilt-by-association.

Maybe we should reserve judging people who are pursuing violent-politically-based goals for people who are pursuing violent, politically-based goals, and hold the people who are pursuing similar violent, politically-based goals responsible?

Too crazy, right?

291 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:56:17am

re: #285 Obdicut

There are people in the Pine Barrens? I never ran into any. Love that desolation.

Image: pine-barrens-09.jpg

And echoes of them in this brilliant movie:

Image: georgia3.jpg

Image: millers-crossing-3.jpg

Enough of them to maintain the legend of the "Jersey Devil". We named an experimental machine gun for it at Picatinny.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

292 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:56:18am

re: #285 Obdicut

There are people in the Pine Barrens? I never ran into any. Love that desolation.

Image: pine-barrens-09.jpg

And echoes of them in this brilliant movie:

Image: georgia3.jpg

Image: millers-crossing-3.jpg

Dude - you never met the Jersey Devil?

293 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:56:25am

re: #288 Obdicut

I'd like to note again that Israel is a very common Hispanic name, and probably doesn't have anything to do with the country, or Jews.

Yes but it's not his name, and it could mean that he supports this crowd [Link: www.talk2action.org...]

294 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:57:32am

re: #290 Talking Point Detective

Sure. But as long as the right pushes "he's the left-winger" meme it's only fair to point out what is wrong with this.

295 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:57:37am

re: #293 Thanos


I'd still say it's unlikely, and most likely a tattoo of the name of a relative. I'm sure we'll learn more about him in time.

296 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:58:03am

My take on this LUNATIC... Oscar...
He can't be all there!
Some variant of a 7.62x39 assault rife...
firing at the MOST secure structure in D.C...
...from 3/4 of a mile??and a moving car??
..while the POTUS out of the country...
Right wing ideologue (from Idaho)would have used a
shoulder fired rocket!!..etc...etc..
This dude is the stupidest "Assassin" in the Universe!
Just sayin.

297 AK-47%  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:58:15am

re: #290 Talking Point Detective

Posted something like that upthread: he is mentally ill, we cannot begin to make anything out of his political or ideological associations.
His brain probably just soaks up whatever the surrounding political color and odor is where he was standing at the time.
It might have been different if he had published a 1,500-page manifesto of his political beliefs heavily quoting from other ideologues...

298 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:58:20am

re: #288 Obdicut

I'd like to note again that Israel is a very common Hispanic name, and probably doesn't have anything to do with the country, or Jews.

He is also said to have a rosary tattoo. Must be from the Vatican neighborhoods of Tel Aviv.

299 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:58:23am

re: #288 Obdicut

I'd like to note again that Israel is a very common Hispanic name, and probably doesn't have anything to do with the country, or Jews.

He does think he's Jesus. Is that the Hispanic Jesus name or the famous carpenter from long ago?

300 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:59:02am

re: #292 Talking Point Detective

Dude - you never met the Jersey Devil?

I hear he has a hockey team in Newark.

301 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:59:23am

re: #295 Obdicut

I wonder if there are any Hispanic analogues to Anglo-Israelism.
/
Not really.

302 BongCrodny  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 5:59:56am

re: #287 Decatur Deb

Matter of style and personality. If I had said it, I'd have 3 updings.

I want to upding you for that, but you've got exactly 3 updings right now, so I'm in emotional turmoil here.

303 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:00:15am

re: #292 Talking Point Detective

Dude - you never met the Jersey Devil?

I never even met myself out there. It's seriously my second-favorite wilderness in the US, right after this one:

Image: Dutch-Creek-12-6401.jpg

So pretty it's easy to forget out there how fast it'll kill you.

Image: Dutch-Creek-17-640.jpg

Image: 3747537185_54e76e935e.jpg

304 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:00:45am

re: #299 NJDhockeyfan

He does think he's Jesus. Is that the Hispanic Jesus name or the famous carpenter from long ago?

Who said that he thinks he's Jesus? I haven't seen that reported yet.

305 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:01:40am

re: #296 reloadingisnotahobby

Well, the three geniuses who were trying to make ricin were right-wing terrorists, and they definitely weren't working with the best plan ever made by man.

306 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:02:05am

re: #295 Obdicut

I'd still say it's unlikely, and most likely a tattoo of the name of a relative. I'm sure we'll learn more about him in time.

I would say the tattoo and the end of times Anti Christ reference are pretty telling when you couple them together. I could be wrong but time will tell that tale.

307 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:02:26am

re: #304 Obdicut

Who said that he thinks he's Jesus? I haven't seen that reported yet.

Oh yeah, he's totally bonkers...

An Idaho man charged with firing an assault rifle at the White House believed he was Jesus and thought President Barack Obama was the Antichrist.

That's according to court documents and people who know 21-year-old Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez of Idaho Falls. When reached for comments, Ortega's mother said she didn't have anything to say. She earlier told the Post Register that her son has no history of mental illness. The mother of Ortega's former fiancé says that Ortega told family he believed he was Jesus Christ and that the world was going to end. An Idaho Falls computer consultant says Ortega told him that Obama was going to put GPS chips in children. Earlier this week, U.S. Secret Service agents confiscated a recording that was addressed to Oprah Winfrey. In it, Ortega talked about some of his beliefs.

Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez/Accused Shooter, "We were never given a choice on what to do about this oil crisis. We were only given one choice, and that was to fight, or war. There is still so much more that God needs me to express to the world. It's not just a coincidence that I look like Jesus, I am the modern day Jesus Christ that you all have been waiting for."

Ortega was arrested Wednesday in western Pennsylvania. He faces life in prison if convicted.

308 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:02:35am

re: #306 Thanos

I'll bet you a Godfather's pizza on it.

309 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:03:36am

re: #301 Sergey Romanov

I wonder if there are any Hispanic analogues to Anglo-Israelism.
/
Not really.

SFZ an Allouette have posted about the descendants of the Conversos, but it's not the same thing.

310 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:03:41am

Now, what's going on here?

DNC wants to see Mitt Romney's emails

The Democratic National Committee has filed a freedom of information (FOIA) request with the office of the governor of Massachusetts in an effort to uncover whether staff destroyed information before Mitt Romney left office.

The request, obtained by The Hill, is for copies of any email communication between then governor-Romney’s staffers relating to their purchase of work computers, or for "permission to destroy, take personal possession of, or remove from official premises, records, including a description of such records."

The DNC is also requesting any and all email correspondence from Romney or his staffers containing a wide variety of terms, such as “delete emails,” “destroy records,” “flip-flop,” “more conservative,” “climate change,” and “Planned Parenthood,” among others.

The DNC request follows one by Romney's presidential campaign earlier in the day. The Romney camp accused Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick’s (D) office of providing “opposition research” to President Obama’s reelection campaign and requested any emails sent to senior Obama campaign aides David Axelrod, David Plouffe, Jim Messina, or other members of the Executive Office from 2007 to the present.

The request from Romney’s compaign followed a report by the Boston Globe that cited information provided by staffers in Patrick's office. The report claimed that Romney’s gubernatorial staff wiped out their records when Romney left office as Massachusetts governor in 2007.

According to Romney's campaign, Romney’s staff “complied with the law and longtime executive branch practice’’ in allowing some members of the staff to buy their computers before leaving office.

[Link: thehill.com...]

311 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:04:00am

re: #306 Thanos

I would say the tattoo and the end of times Anti Christ reference are pretty telling when you couple them together. I could be wrong but time will tell that tale.

I agree that these are tempting clues. However then it's Israel not in any sense related to the state of Israel, but rather a reference to "the God's elect" in the end times. If so, he may think of himself as belonging to this metaphysical Israel.

312 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:05:17am

re: #303 Obdicut

I never even met myself out there. It's seriously my second-favorite wilderness in the US, right after this one:

Image: Dutch-Creek-12-6401.jpg

So pretty it's easy to forget out there how fast it'll kill you.

Image: Dutch-Creek-17-640.jpg

Image: 3747537185_54e76e935e.jpg

The funniest 'Sopranos' had Christopher and Paulie trying to clean up a problem there.

313 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:06:14am

I imagine this tattoo is a tasty dinner for all the conspiracy trolls, just as Breivik's masonry was.

314 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:06:21am

re: #284 Sergey Romanov

It's not like anti-Israel sentiment is unkown to OWS. Here are some recent samples....
Occupy AIPAC?

If and when an Occupy AIPAC consciousness takes hold among those who still have the sense they were born with, the rest, the Republic base, will surely follow suit. Then Evangelicals will revert back to their longstanding indifference to Middle Eastern affairs, and the world will be a better place for it.

The Israel lobby, with AIPAC at its lead, has put together a bipartisan consensus beyond Obama’s wildest dreams. But, like the corporate predators and financiers who made Occupy Wall Street both necessary and possible, AIPAC may soon find itself the victim of its own success. The tide is turning, and there is no telling what it will sweep away.

Pro-Palestinian activists push cause within Occupy Wall Street movement (a nice rundown of the fight over anti-Israel/pro Palestinian issues within OWS)

315 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:08:32am

re: #313 Sergey Romanov

I imagine this tattoo is a tasty dinner for all the conspiracy trolls, just as Breivik's masonry was.

He's a Mossad hitman sent because Obama doesn't love Israel enough. DERP.

316 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:08:49am

re: #314 Killgore Trout

Quite unrelated to the point I was making, but do continue to deflect.

317 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:08:58am

re: #307 NJDhockeyfan

Huh, interesting. The GPS chip thing is something I've seen in some crazy anti-Obama religious right places, too.

[Link: www.tldm.org...]

318 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:10:28am

PETA wants Turkey, TX to change its name

Turkey, Texas - An animal rights group has made an unusual request to a Hall County town.

PETA wants Turkey, Texas to change its name to "Tofurky" for just one day.

If the town agrees to the name change on Thanksgiving Day, PETA will provide a vegan holiday feast. But everyone we talked with says no thanks to both offers.

Heh.

319 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:10:40am

re: #311 Sergey Romanov

Maybe he's secretly part of that dumb British cult that thinks Britain is the real land of Israel.

[Link: www.orange-street-church.org...]

320 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:11:32am

re: #307 NJDhockeyfan
...He sent a tape to Oprah??
...Told you he's CRAZY!!!

321 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:11:45am

re: #318 NJDhockeyfan

PETA wants Turkey, TX to change its name

Heh.

It's TEXAS. Exactly what did they expect was going to happen? I think they eat more animals down there than the rest of the country combined.

322 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:12:01am

He thinks he's the second coming:

"We were never given a choice on what to do about this oil crisis. We were only given one choice, and that was to fight, or war. There is still so much more that God needs me to express to the world. It's not just a coincidence that I look like Jesus, I am the modern day Jesus Christ that you all have been waiting for."

He thinks the world is ending, and that the "oil crisis" is part of that. Ideas like that aren't grabbed out of a vacuum. He's an Oprah fan as well but I wouldn't be surprised to see "Prison Planet" and "Rense" in his favorites if someone looked at his computer.

Meanwhile Baron Bodissey has a post up slamming Oyvind Strommen's new book because it links people to Anders Breivik and Fascism in Europe.

323 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:12:19am

re: #294 Sergey Romanov

Sure. But as long as the right pushes "he's the left-winger" meme it's only fair to point out what is wrong with this.

Yes and no. I think that with the tit-for-tat exchange, all we'll get is more of the same. RWers will say that what they're doing is only in response to the Giffords shooting, or whatever.

Killgore thinks what he's doing is OK because he used the same, lame, guilt-by-association tactics with the Tea Party.

My point is that either way it's cheap point-scoring, and exploitative, merely to serve a partisan agenda rather than to even approach solving issues.

There aren't that many things that I am strongly positive on Obama about - but his approach to these issues is one of them. I thought his "speech on race" was extraordinary - in particular the part where he discussed how without reasoned dialog, where we address legitimate grievances, we won't make progress on highly divisive issues (like race).

Sorry - I know I'm going off on you here more than what is called for, but this is something that does bother me.

Even this post is somewhat of a case in point. Sure - there is no question that there are rightwing loons who have incited hatred by pushing an Obama is the anti-Christ meme, and that is a topic worthy of examination: but does tying this guy to those people really help? I don't think so. This kind of association only empowers people to say that libz are assigning guilt by association with lunatics: that lays cover for the calculated efforts by mainstream, "normal" people who propagate religion-based hatred towards Obama for political expediency.

Maybe instead of responding with a mirror-image guilt-by-association, people should respond by saying that they're above guilt-by-association, and in another conversation, focus on the "normal" people who are exploiting religious beliefs for political expediency?

324 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:12:29am

re: #319 Obdicut

#301

325 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:12:36am

re: #321 thedopefishlives

It's TEXAS. Exactly what did they expect was going to happen? I think they eat more animals down there than the rest of the country combined.

Of course they do, all the animals are bigger down there.

326 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:13:27am

re: #324 Sergey Romanov

Heh. They're one of my favorite idiot cults.

327 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:14:08am

re: #303 Obdicut

I never even met myself out there. It's seriously my second-favorite wilderness in the US, right after this one:

Image: Dutch-Creek-12-6401.jpg

So pretty it's easy to forget out there how fast it'll kill you.

Image: Dutch-Creek-17-640.jpg

Image: 3747537185_54e76e935e.jpg

Check this place out sometime:

Image: cranberry-wilderness-area.jpg

Did a nice four-day backpack there about 3 years ago. Unfortunately, it was cold and rainy almost the entire time!

328 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:14:19am

re: #323 Talking Point Detective

What do you mean by 'tying' this guy to them?

329 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:14:22am

I missed this one: Occupy Grand Rapids protests war criminal Condi Rice

During the march through downtown, protester Jeff Smith said, “We are confronting Condoleezza Rice while she is in town for her participation in war crimes during the Bush years when literally hundreds of thousands of people were killed at the hands of the U.S. military in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.

Silly lefties.

330 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:15:19am

Didn't the lizard HAL90210 or whatever his name is recently complain that OWS didn't have any specific demands or solutions? How about this (no endorsement)?:

The 99%’s Deficit Proposal: How to create jobs, reduce the wealth divide and control spending

331 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:15:55am

Oops, here's Oyvind's new book but I don't read Danish. There will be a French translation, and when I talked with him this am on Facebook he said he's trying for English.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

332 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:16:02am
333 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:16:33am

re: #320 reloadingisnotahobby

...He sent a tape to Oprah??
...Told you he's CRAZY!!!

The video is here.

334 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:16:54am

re: #303 Obdicut

I never even met myself out there. It's seriously my second-favorite wilderness in the US, right after this one:

Image: Dutch-Creek-12-6401.jpg

So pretty it's easy to forget out there how fast it'll kill you.

Image: Dutch-Creek-17-640.jpg

Image: 3747537185_54e76e935e.jpg

That last image reminds me of the bluffs on the Matt Davis trail up above Stinson Beach.

That photo was taken in New Jersey??!!

335 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:16:56am

re: #329 Killgore Trout

What's your position on waterboarding, torture, and the legality aspect of it, especially when it concerns the transition of power between administrations?

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:17:58am

re: #323 Talking Point Detective

This is a political issue and the rules weren't written by us. Defend yourself or be eaten. It's good to have detached academic conversations, but meanwhile Limbaughs of this world will be saying that a Democrat was trying to shoot the President. Pointing out in non-blaming way that no, there is no evidence of this guy's left-wing roots (at least at present) and yes, his views (as known at the moment) do reside on the fringe right rather than fringe left is an honest way to deal with the issue in these circumstances. Of course, the cherry on the top would be to always point out - "no, we don't actually say the guy was a right-winger".

337 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:20:32am

re: #328 Obdicut

What do you mean by 'tying' this guy to them?

I think that in effect, a post titled:

The Suspected White House Shooter’s Right Wing Ideas

is seen as tying this guy to the right wing.

338 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:20:35am

re: #292 Talking Point Detective

Dude - you never met the Jersey Devil?

Friend of mine married her...

339 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:20:46am

Ouch...this is gonna leave a mark.

340 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:21:26am

re: #329 Killgore Trout

Actually, Rice was one of the people in the torture chain. She certainly should be investigated. That is, if the rule of law means anything.

341 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:22:33am

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan
Yup...he's a kook!
...War for oil is a Right Wing meme??
...I did not know that!!
He obviously has no clue what to believe!

342 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:24:38am

re: #288 Obdicut

I'd like to note again that Israel is a very common Hispanic name, and probably doesn't have anything to do with the country, or Jews.

It could be his favorite soccer player.

343 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:25:41am

Labor Leaders Arrested

Among those arrested at the base of the Brooklyn Bridge early Thursday evening was the city’s top labor leader and the president of the nationwide Service Employees International Union, according to a union spokeswoman.

The labor leader, George Gresham, the president of 1199 S.E.I.U. United Healthcare Workers East, and the president of the S.E.I.U., Mary Kay Henry, were arrested along with Kevin Doyle, the executive vice president of S.E.I.U. 32BJ.

Wearing white shirts emblazoned with “99%,” the three were among a group of 99 people who staged the sit-in at about 6 p.m. said the spokeswoman, Leah Gonzalez of S.E.I.U. United Healthcare Workers East.

They will most likely be charged with disorderly conduct, the police said. As of late Thursday, they had not been released.

[Link: cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com...]

344 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:26:34am

re: #336 Sergey Romanov

This is a political issue and the rules weren't written by us. Defend yourself or be eaten. It's good to have detached academic conversations, but meanwhile Limbaughs of this world will be saying that a Democrat was trying to shoot the President. Pointing out in non-blaming way that no, there is no evidence of this guy's left-wing roots (at least at present) and yes, his views (as known at the moment) do reside on the fringe right rather than fringe left is an honest way to deal with the issue in these circumstances. Of course, the cherry on the top would be to always point out - "no, we don't actually say the guy was a right-winger".

Yeah - I think it really does boil down to that, a question of strategy.

My point is that there is more than one way to "eat." This isn't a moral argument I'm making here, it's a strategic argument. I don't think that responding with a like rhetoric as Limbaugh is effective.

The rightwing is just much better at playing this game.

I got into this with a few folks here regarding branding the Tea Party as "proto-Nazis," and actually I think it extends to the "anti-science" and "denier" memes as well. I've been hanging on climate blogs lately, and I've seen the overuse of terms like "anti-science" and "denier" as ultimately counter-productive in balance. That's not to say that there aren't "anti-science" and "denier" elements out there; not by a long shot. Only that extending that rhetoric beyond what is demonstrably accurate only plays into their hands. They are very, very good at this game because their heart is really into utilizing false memes expediently.

345 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:28:48am

re: #335 000G

What's your position on waterboarding, torture, and the legality aspect of it, especially when it concerns the transition of power between administrations?

I'm not personally bothered by waterboarding and I'll leave the legal questions to people more informed than myself. I prefer Obama's approach to detainess and terrorism suspects over Bush's. Bush had more verbal bluster and tough talk. Obama's rhetoric is much softer which allows him to get away with much harsher action.
Morally, I don't see Obama's tactics as being superior (not that I'm terribly bothered by it). Assassinations, drone strikes, secret renditions to countries who do torture (real torture, not just waterboarding) and secret military prisons. I'd much rather be a jihadi in the Bush era. Obama's pretty mean.

346 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:28:51am

Congressman Peter King calls Occupy protesters "Angry losers! Living In their own feces & urine"

[Link: ac360.blogs.cnn.com...]

347 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:29:15am

re: #344 Talking Point Detective

I don't think that responding with a like rhetoric as Limbaugh is effective.

Sure, and that's not what I see anyone doing or defending here (though admittedly I didn't read all the threads).

348 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:29:32am

re: #303 Obdicut

Sorry - I "missed the nuance of your language." So Dutch Creek is in NC?

349 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:30:22am

re: #345 Killgore Trout

I'm not personally bothered by waterboarding

We'll keep that in mind for when the 99% takes over and needs some information or other.

Open wide!

///

350 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:30:28am

re: #339 NJDhockeyfan

Ouch...this is gonna leave a mark.

His arrest was a mess. About a 5 minute tug of war between protesters and police. Pretty ugly.

351 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:31:00am

re: #345 Killgore Trout

Waterboarding is torture. Claiming it's not is foolish.

352 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:31:34am

re: #339 NJDhockeyfan

Ouch...this is gonna leave a mark.

And this one makes an impression.

353 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:31:45am

Morning. I see we're off to a very early start here again.

Nothing will get your point across by linking to Counterpunch which truly qualifies as a radical leftist site. Of course, this does not define the occupy movement and just works in playing into the fear and prejudices against said group.

354 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:31:59am

re: #345 Killgore Trout

I'm not personally bothered by waterboarding and I'll leave the legal questions to people more informed than myself. I prefer Obama's approach to detainess and terrorism suspects over Bush's. Bush had more verbal bluster and tough talk. Obama's rhetoric is much softer which allows him to get away with much harsher action.
Morally, I don't see Obama's tactics as being superior (not that I'm terribly bothered by it). Assassinations, drone strikes, secret renditions to countries who do torture (real torture, not just waterboarding) and secret military prisons. I'd much rather be a jihadi in the Bush era. Obama's pretty mean.

Ignoring everything else in your post for now, I feel the strong need to state that waterboarding most certainly is "real torture".

355 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:32:44am

re: #352 Rightwingconspirator

And this one makes an impression.

Front row seats!

356 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:32:46am

re: #349 000G

There were times when I wondered where NKVD got all those happy torturers. They apparently were normal people once, after all.

357 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:33:39am

re: #348 Talking Point Detective

Sorry - I "missed the nuance of your language." So Dutch Creek is in NC?

Yep. It's not a particular place, though-- there are millions of acres in Northern California that look just like that. That's one of the reason I love it; it's a fractally blooming landscape endlessly rolling dusty-brown hills stained with olive-hued trees sizzling in heavy blue skies with constant susurration of wind through dry grass making a sound like the world's most subtle rattler and when you find a cool stream trickling only a foot wide in a creek bed ten yards wide it feels so good to drink it. And then you walk on until you find the next one, and the next. Endless amounts to discover while all the while the landscape barely changes no matter how many miles you unroll.

358 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:33:52am

re: #347 Sergey Romanov

Sure, and that's that's not I see anyone doing or defending here (though admittedly I didn't read all the threads).

True - it isn't exactly the same.

My argument is that it is very similar in effect - whether it is the same or not. This kind of response gets spun, every effectively, by the rightwing. They aren't concerned about precision and accuracy.

359 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:34:02am

re: #354 Simply Sarah

Ignoring everything else in your post for now, I feel the strong need to state that waterboarding most certainly is "real torture".

Yes it is. Yet I'm not going to pretend it's the same as say what the Zetas and narco gangs have been doing to their prisoners.

360 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:34:07am

re: #356 Sergey Romanov

There were times when I wondered where NKVD got all those happy torturers. They apparently were normal people once, after all.

They look like Michael Palin and wear baby-face masks, didn't you know? You might live next door to one.

361 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:34:38am

re: #351 Obdicut

Waterboarding is torture. Claiming it's not is foolish.

It's also ineffective, nay, counterproductive.

362 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:35:43am

re: #350 Killgore Trout

His arrest was a mess. About a 5 minute tug of war between protesters and police. Pretty ugly.

According to the NYT he went nuts:

A protester who was led out of Zuccotti Park on Thursday afternoon with blood streaming from his face had thrown a small battery at police officers and taken a deputy inspector’s hat, the police said. He was charged with attempted assault and grand larceny.

The police said the man identified himself as Brandon Watts, 20, and has been arrested at least four times since the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations began.

The police offered this account of Mr. Watts’s confrontation:

Mr. Watts climbed up on a wall inside Zuccotti Park and began throwing objects at officers outside the barricade along Liberty Street, starting with pieces of a plastic pen. He then threw a AAA battery, and motioned to officers that he was ready to fight. The officers ignored him.

Mr. Watts went up to the officers, grabbed the barrier between him and them and began pushing and kicking it, shoving it against the officers. Mr. Watts grabbed a deputy inspector’s hat and ran back into the park. The officers ran after him. He resisted arrest, kicking officers, and when he was brought down, he struck his head, causing bleeding. He was taken to Bellevue Hospital Center, where he was treated but not admitted.

Mr. Watts’s prior arrests at Occupy Wall Street, the police said, involved resisting arrest on Sept. 24, loitering in disguise on Sept. 28, escaping from a prisoner van on Oct. 14 and having stolen orange mesh fencing on Oct. 28.

363 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:35:56am

re: #353 Gus 802

Morning. I see we're off to a very early start here again.

Nothing will get your point across by linking to Counterpunch which truly qualifies as a radical leftist site. Of course, this does not define the occupy movement and just works in playing into the fear and prejudices against said group.

It's even better. I confronted him with a specific instance of him going off on a rant against "fucking moonbats" in response a specific antisemitic loon, as an analogy of someone going off on the rant against the right in response to this would-be assassin (which would be just as unfair). This, apparently, was an excuse to post a barrage of Israel/OWS related links, as if they were in any way relevant to the specific example I pointed out.

364 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:36:50am

re: #355 NJDhockeyfan

Front row seats!

"Let them eat... Bank statements."

365 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:36:58am

re: #359 Rightwingconspirator

Yes it is. Yet I'm not going to pretend it's the same as say what the Zetas and narco gangs have been doing to their prisoners.

Torture is torture. Any attempt to try and play the "but it's not as bad as" game is morally and intellectually dishonest. I should also note that KT seems to be stating that he's pretty OK with the U.S. performing secret renditions to countries with "real torture", so he doesn't even seem to have real issues with the "more serious" forms.

366 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:37:11am

re: #354 Simply Sarah

Ignoring everything else in your post for now, I feel the strong need to state that waterboarding most certainly is "real torture".

Maybe, it's a reasonable opinion. Waterboarding would be the least of your concerns being interrogated in countries like Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia etc . There you'll get electrodes to the genitals, limbs chopped off, intentional blinding with oil, or whatever else they're up to these days. Serious lifelong mutilation. They can also kill you when they're done and nobody will ever know about it.

367 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:37:58am

re: #361 Talking Point Detective

It's also ineffective, nay, counterproductive.

I honestly think a lot of this is that people are morally repulsed by what has to be done in order to get good intel; to befriend the captives, to co-opt them. I think people would rather just hit them and beat them down and the idea of being friendly to them, even in the service of a greater good, is just morally repellent to them. It's rather short-sighted.

A friend of mine who is a cop says this is what he has to train all the new cops on. You get a suspect. He killed someone, you're sure of it. You can scream at him and tell him he's a fucking scumbag and a loser and you're going to come down hard on him and, if you want, cuff him around the head when you're in an areas without cameras. And he probably won't say anything except to curse at you.

Or you can say admiring things to him, tell him what a hard man he is, brag about the number of people you've killed yourself, and befriend him. And that way you'll get him to actually talk and then can get up and have the evidence you need to put him away.

368 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:38:21am

re: #366 Killgore Trout

It's not an opinion but fact. That there are worse forms of torture does not negate the fact that waterboarding is torture.

369 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:40:12am

re: #363 Sergey Romanov

It's even better. I confronted him with a specific instance of him going off on a rant against "fucking moonbats" in response a specific antisemitic loon, as an analogy of someone going off on the rant against the right in response to this would-be assassin (which would be just as unfair). This, apparently, was an excuse to post a barrage of Israel/OWS related links, as if they were in any way relevant to the specific example I pointed out.

Killgore's failure to address the incoherency of accusing people of "supporting" rape and torture is all you need to know.

I suspect that even knows how vapid his argument is. He's just lamely, endlessly, searching for "vindication."

He'll never find it, so he'll just keep going.

370 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:40:55am

re: #352 Rightwingconspirator

And this one makes an impression.

Begging to get doxed via /b/

371 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:41:35am

re: #366 Killgore Trout

Maybe, it's a reasonable opinion. Waterboarding would be the least of your concerns being interrogated in countries like Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia etc . There you'll get electrodes to the genitals, limbs chopped off, intentional blinding with oil, or whatever else they're up to these days. Serious lifelong mutilation. They can also kill you when they're done and nobody will ever know about it.

More of the same kind of logic we see in the OWS posts. Simplistic. Binary.

Maybe waterboarding is torture. But there are worse forms of torture. Therefore I won't denounce waterboarding.

Even though it is ineffective.

372 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:41:55am

re: #356 Sergey Romanov

There were times when I wondered where NKVD got all those happy torturers. They apparently were normal people once, after all.

Normality is pretty scary, ain't it?

373 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:42:16am

if we want to argue the morals of torture, the morals of Obamas renditions to foreign prisons is at least as odious as CIA run waterboarding. Outsourcing the torture is morally the same. Arguably worse as in a cover up too.

374 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:42:29am

Seven of NYPD's Finest injured amid Occupy Wall Street chaos

At least seven cops were hurt during violent clashes with protesters on Thursday, officials said.

In the most bloody injury, a demonstrator hurled a star-shaped piece of glass — possibly taken from another protester’s Captain America costume — at Officer Matthew Walters during a 1:30 p.m. confrontation at Zuccotti Park, officials said.

The glass sliced Walters’ hand. He later needed 20 stitches to seal the wound, officials said.

Walters, 24 — a rookie assigned to the 81st Precinct in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn — was taken to Bellevue Hospital and his assailant avoided capture, officials said.

At about the same time, an officer was doused in the face with a liquid that police believe was vinegar.

His eyes were flushed at the scene and he was taken to New York Hospital Downtown for treatment.

Earlier in the day, four other officers were splashed with a similar substance during a standoff at Broadway and Wall St. They, too, were treated and released from New York Downtown Hospital.

Another officer was treated at Bellevue Hospital for a minor injury to his hand.

At least 10 protesters were also hurt during the chaotic day, but none was seriously injured, officials said.

375 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:42:55am

re: #363 Sergey Romanov

It's even better. I confronted him with a specific instance of him going off on a rant against "fucking moonbats" in response a specific antisemitic loon, as an analogy of someone going off on the rant against the right in response to this would-be assassin (which would be just as unfair). This, apparently, was an excuse to post a barrage of Israel/OWS related links, as if they were in any way relevant to the specific example I pointed out.

I was going to get into the whole pro-Palestine meme myself but decided to hold off for a minute. How do we define pro-Palestine? Does this include USAid that goes to the territories and associated NGO support? I mean outside of the usual pro-groups that might support Hamas or Hezbollah. Park51 for example is "pro-Palestine". Should we reject them too? I think the term pro-Palestine is too sweeping and in this context is also being used as a weapon against those left of center in both the USA and Israel.

376 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:43:57am

re: #366 Killgore Trout

Maybe, it's a reasonable opinion. Waterboarding would be the least of your concerns being interrogated in countries like Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia etc . There you'll get electrodes to the genitals, limbs chopped off, intentional blinding with oil, or whatever else they're up to these days. Serious lifelong mutilation. They can also kill you when they're done and nobody will ever know about it.

Again, I'm not going to play that game. For starters, it's a slippery slope to worse and worse actions, all being justified because they "aren't as bad as what country or group X is doing". But you know what? I don't fucking care what X is doing. Morals shouldn't be based on the lowest common denominator. If you really want to claim the moral high ground (or, god forbid, claim to be ethical), then you need to act on that and prove it. Pointing out that others are worse, so what you're doing is OK is ridiculous.

377 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:44:04am

re: #367 Obdicut

I honestly think a lot of this is that people are morally repulsed by what has to be done in order to get good intel; to befriend the captives, to co-opt them. I think people would rather just hit them and beat them down and the idea of being friendly to them, even in the service of a greater good, is just morally repellent to them. It's rather short-sighted.

A friend of mine who is a cop says this is what he has to train all the new cops on. You get a suspect. He killed someone, you're sure of it. You can scream at him and tell him he's a fucking scumbag and a loser and you're going to come down hard on him and, if you want, cuff him around the head when you're in an areas without cameras. And he probably won't say anything except to curse at you.

Or you can say admiring things to him, tell him what a hard man he is, brag about the number of people you've killed yourself, and befriend him. And that way you'll get him to actually talk and then can get up and have the evidence you need to put him away.

Exactly. They think that proper interrogation techniques are "soft," probably "effeminate." People get to inflate their penis size by blustering about uniformed men doing things to other men that are in restraints.

378 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:44:39am

re: #374 NJDhockeyfan

Vinegar is also known as dilute acetic acid.

379 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:44:47am

re: #371 Talking Point Detective

More of the same kind of logic we see in the OWS posts. Simplistic. Binary.

Maybe waterboarding is torture. But there are worse forms of torture. Therefore I won't denounce waterboarding.

Even though it is ineffective.

Interesting because just now I was observing that what we're seeing is a great deal of black and white thinking. Not shades of grey nor any understanding of the complexities of the world. That with a good dose of atavism harkening back to the day that no longer exists -- not until a Republican is brought back into the White House.

380 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:45:31am

Okay this is way before the time of many of you. But the Natalie Wood death (previously ruled an accident) is now reopened as a murder. New statements from the skipper. A 30 year old case.

381 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:45:56am

re: #380 Rightwingconspirator

Okay this is way before the time of many of you. But the Natalie Wood death (previously ruled an accident) is now reopened as a murder. New statements from the skipper. A 30 year old case.

One wonders what new information they have.

382 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:46:32am

re: #375 Gus 802

Pro-Palestine may be as simple as supporting the creation of a Palestinian state. One can be pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel at the same time - many Israelis are. In any case, critical of Israel doesn't equal antisemitic, so that was just a silly deflection.

383 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:47:14am

re: #373 Rightwingconspirator

It definitely is worse, if torture is occurring and Obama is knowingly sending people out for torture. I haven't seen anything approaching actual proof of this, though.

Obama explicitly created a 'task force' to examine renditions to make sure they weren't winding up facing torture.

There is at least one person who's alleged torture-- though of the 'terrible conditions' sort-- under Obama, but it hasn't been proven.

384 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:47:25am

re: #379 Gus 802

Interesting because just now I was observing that what we're seeing is a great deal of black and white thinking. Not shades of grey nor any understanding of the complexities of the world. That with a good dose of atavism harkening back to the day that no longer exists -- not until a Republican is brought back into the White House.

Binary thinking has its imprint all over Killgore's OWS posts.

385 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:47:46am

re: #373 Rightwingconspirator

if we want to argue the morals of torture, the morals of Obamas renditions to foreign prisons is at least as odious as CIA run waterboarding. Outsourcing the torture is morally the same. Arguably worse as in a cover up too.

I certainly cannot argue that shipping prisoners elsewhere to be tortured while leaving American hands "clean" is not just as bad (And probably worse) than doing it ourselves.

386 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:47:51am

re: #362 NJDhockeyfan

They had to go into the park to get him. The protesters, instead of allowing the arrest of a violent person, spent five minutes fighting with cops. His arrest would have been pretty simple and he probably wouldn't have been so seriously injured if protesters allowed police to do their job.

387 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:47:55am

Waterboarding=torture, but on the other hand if you want to scare a terrorist you don't say "Gitmo" -- you say "Landi Kotal".

[Link: www.google.com...]

388 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:48:33am

re: #368 Sergey Romanov

It's not an opinion but fact. That there are worse forms of torture does not negate the fact that waterboarding is torture.

I don't find that an unreasonable position.

389 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:48:46am

re: #382 Sergey Romanov

Pro-Palestine may be as simple as supporting the creation of a Palestinian state. One can be pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel at the same time - many Israelis are. In any case, critical of Israel doesn't equal antisemitic, so that was just a silly deflection.

Yes. It's a very common tactic from the right and one that I find rather inhuman and nationalistic.

390 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:49:04am

re: #383 Obdicut

It definitely is worse, if torture is occurring and Obama is knowingly sending people out for torture. I haven't seen anything approaching actual proof of this, though.

Obama explicitly created a 'task force' to examine renditions to make sure they weren't winding up facing torture.

There is at least one person who's alleged torture-- though of the 'terrible conditions' sort-- under Obama, but it hasn't been proven.

But notice that without verification, Killgore is more than willing to feel absolutely certain that Obama has increased the torture component.

And for that reason, Killgore approves of Obama's policy even more than he approved of Bush's policy.

391 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:49:25am

re: #377 Talking Point Detective

I don't think you need to get into the psychology of effeminancy and all of that; what I was saying is that people have a quite natural revulsion towards people they think are evil, and so they want bad things to happen to them, and not good things. And so giving prisoners some freedom, letting them play chess and ping-pong, giving them nice things to eat, all of that makes people angry even if it produces a good end result. And torture, even though if they thought about it hard they'd realize it corrupts and undermines the rule of law as well as being ineffective, seems good because it's doing something Bad to someone who is Bad.

392 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:49:41am

re: #386 Killgore Trout

They had to go into the park to get him. The protesters, instead of allowing the arrest of a violent person, spent five minutes fighting with cops. His arrest would have been pretty simple and he probably wouldn't have been so seriously injured if protesters allowed police to do their job.

They had to go and amass evidence of insider trading to get him. The bankers, instead of allowing the arrest of a corrupt individual, spent months obfuscating data. His arrest would have been pretty simple and the DA wouldn't have had to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars building a legal case if bankers allowed prosecutors to do their job.

393 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:51:02am

re: #382 Sergey Romanov

Pro-Palestine may be as simple as supporting the creation of a Palestinian state. One can be pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel at the same time - many Israelis are. In any case, critical of Israel doesn't equal antisemitic, so that was just a silly deflection.

There are plenty of Anti-Semites who hide behind "criticism of Israel." Comparing the IDF to nazis, or singling out Israel for doing the same things that other countries do to defend themselves, while never criticizing any other country who commits far more egregious human rights abuse--that's Anti-Semitic.

394 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:52:59am

re: #318 NJDhockeyfan

PETA wants Turkey, TX to change its name

They're also mad about a video game character wearing a vritual fur costume:

PETA Protests Use of Fur in Super Mario Bros.

I really wish that PETA would spend their time documenting the valid issue of the deplorable conditions of factory farms instead of doing stupid shit like this. They just make themselves look like morons and undermine their cause when they pull these stunts.

395 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:53:11am

re: #383 Obdicut

It definitely is worse, if torture is occurring and Obama is knowingly sending people out for torture. I haven't seen anything approaching actual proof of this, though.

Obama explicitly created a 'task force' to examine renditions to make sure they weren't winding up facing torture.

There is at least one person who's alleged torture-- though of the 'terrible conditions' sort-- under Obama, but it hasn't been proven.

It's fantastical thinking really. People keep claiming that "thing are much worse" with regards to torture but that has been unfounded. Waterboarding has been completely banned by the Obama administration on all fronts. I think it's a weak argument that's attempting to say, "you can say Bush's policies were bad when in fact Obama's policies are worse. Ergo, you have to agree with me if you support Obama!" Again, this is another right-wing tactic.

396 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:54:55am

Category-Why cops use lethal force
Lafayette Indiana. After a pursuit, a suspect exits his car with a knife straight out on the attack. Flailing and running at officers, one of which got stabbed in the face. The suspect is dead of well justified gunfire. Look at second 52 on on.

397 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:54:59am

re: #383 Obdicut

It definitely is worse, if torture is occurring and Obama is knowingly sending people out for torture. I haven't seen anything approaching actual proof of this, though.

Obama explicitly created a 'task force' to examine renditions to make sure they weren't winding up facing torture.

There is at least one person who's alleged torture-- though of the 'terrible conditions' sort-- under Obama, but it hasn't been proven.

Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool

The role of the CIA's controversial prisoner-transfer program may expand, intelligence experts say.

It's from 2009 but it's still going on. It's just quieter with not as much press attention.

398 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:55:43am

re: #391 Obdicut

what I was saying is that people have a quite natural revulsion towards people they think are evil, and so they want bad things to happen to them, and not good things.

Sure - and that may be a bigger part of it.

But I think that insecurity about one's own power is definitely a piece of the psychology behind why people advocate torture even when it is ineffective. Maybe it's over-reaching, but I would say it is highly likely that there is a connection to fear of being "soft," and that there is a gender-identity component.

399 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:55:56am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool

It's from 2009 but it's still going on. It's just quieter with not as much press attention.

Rendition does not mean torture. This is nothing new at all.

400 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:55:56am

re: #394 Lidane

They're also mad about a video game character wearing a vritual fur costume:

PETA Protests Use of Fur in Super Mario Bros.

I really wish that PETA would spend their time documenting the valid issue of the deplorable conditions of factory farms instead of doing stupid shit like this. They just make themselves look like morons and undermine their cause when they pull these stunts.

Hmm. Not to pick a fight, but I suppose for the PETA folks, Mario wearing a fur costume is a bit like Mario beating up Princess Mushroom would be for a domestic violence concern group. So, while not sharing their passionate opposition to the wearing of fur (I share the opposition but not the passion) I can see where they're coming from.

401 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:57:00am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

Again you appear to just ignore most of what I write. Preserving rendition while at least saying that you're forbidding torture and getting assurances that torture will not occur, is not the same thing as using rendition specifically to put people in places where they can be tortured.

Is Obama and his administration lying about this? Sure, maybe they are. But that's a claim that requires proof, not just a nod and a wink.

402 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:57:18am

re: #394 Lidane

They're also mad about a video game character wearing a vritual fur costume:

PETA Protests Use of Fur in Super Mario Bros.

I really wish that PETA would spend their time documenting the valid issue of the deplorable conditions of factory farms instead of doing stupid shit like this. They just make themselves look like morons and undermine their cause when they pull these stunts.

They should just stick with naked babes and porn.

403 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:57:24am

"Yeah, but you don't know what they're doing to these detainees while in transit! It's far more secret than it was under the Bush administration! They're still being tortured!" -- Alex Jones

//I made that up but it sounds pretty close to me.

404 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:57:36am

re: #393 Alouette

There are plenty of Anti-Semites who hide behind "criticism of Israel." Comparing the IDF to nazis, or singling out Israel for doing the same things that other countries do to defend themselves, while never criticizing any other country who commits far more egregious human rights abuse--that's Anti-Semitic.

The link that everyone is reacting to is the OWS moonbats protesting Condi Rice blaming her for killing Palestinians. Dog whistle for military aid to Israel.

405 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:58:25am
406 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:58:25am

re: #398 Talking Point Detective

but I would say it is highly likely that there is a connection to fear of being "soft," and that there is a gender-identity component.

Sorry, I think that's a huge pop-psychology stretch. When there's an easy, accessible explanation-- people think of terrorists as 'bad' and want 'bad' things to happen to them, bringing in some complex gender-identity explanation seems to complicate things unnecessarily.

407 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:58:35am

re: #399 Gus 802

Rendition does not mean torture. This is nothing new at all.

What I do find troubling are the drone attacks. It's questionable as to how effective it is - but even beyond that, from what I've seen there seems to be a very shaky system for guaranteeing the authorization of the strikes. I have a big problem with that.

408 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 6:59:06am

re: #399 Gus 802

Rendition does not mean torture. This is nothing new at all.

Rendition to secret places with secret people doing secret things secret ways. Look like a definite maybe. Not transparent at all. Rendition needs to end. It's ten years later. Time to end the worst practices.

409 albusteve  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:00:18am

re: #408 Rightwingconspirator

Rendition to secret places with secret people doing secret things secret ways. Look like a definite maybe. Not transparent at all. Rendition needs to end. It's ten years later. Time to end the worst practices.

time to get out of Stanland, period

410 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:00:32am

re: #401 Obdicut

See #405

CIA assistant General Counsel Daniel Pines, writing for a law journal last year, asserted that while U.S. officials could not themselves torture suspects during rendition, “U.S. law does not even preclude the United States from rendering an individual to a foreign location where he or she could be abused or tortured.” Pines said he was expressing his own views, and not the official views of the CIA or U.S. government.

But on the international stage, the United States and its allies have been accused of breaching international law in their practice of extraordinary rendition under the Bush administration. A 2009 report by the United Nations special rapporteur stated that the U.S. system of extraordinary renditions and secret detention "violate the prohibition against torture and other forms of ill-treatment."

411 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:01:18am

re: #373 Rightwingconspirator

if we want to argue the morals of torture, the morals of Obamas renditions to foreign prisons is at least as odious as CIA run waterboarding. Outsourcing the torture is morally the same. Arguably worse as in a cover up too.

Absolutely, if such rendition torture does happen under Obama. Do we know it does happen? If such facts are uncovered (as they were during the Bush admin), and there was such an intent, that the Obama admin should be held to account. It doesn't seem, however, that there is any evidence that such things have happened except in the bloodthirsty fantasies of certain people. I'm not saying everything is hunky-dory and who knows what intelligence agencies are up to at each given moment. However saying it "might" be happening is not the same as having actual facts.

Also see [Link: www.politifact.com...]

412 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:01:36am

re: #406 Obdicut

Sorry, I think that's a huge pop-psychology stretch. When there's an easy, accessible explanation-- people think of terrorists as 'bad' and want 'bad' things to happen to them, bringing in some complex gender-identity explanation seems to complicate things unnecessarily.

No reason to be sorry. You disagree. That's fine.

413 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:01:39am

re: #410 Killgore Trout

And? Is that your level of 'proof', or what?

414 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:01:49am

The whole "Obama does rendition too, so if you support Obama you support rendition and so you should really be voting for a Republican" argument is just so deeply stupid.

It completely ignores the fact that the people pressuring Obama to stop these practices are precisely the left/liberal people who acknowledge that he is far from perfect, but are also perfectly aware that the Republicans are a zillion times worse on this and other issues.

Concern trolling at its finest.

415 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:02:59am

re: #414 iossarian

Ahem. The people pressuring Obama to stop these practices also includes people who self-identify as 'conservatives', like Rightwingconspirator. There are also lots of less-reputable Ron Paul types who want to stop these practices who are definitely right-wing.

416 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:03:38am

Oh, this promises to be fun. I wonder if it will become a trend:

Tea Party Members Meet With Occupy Memphis, Praise Efforts Of Protesters

Occupy Memphis member Mallory Pope had just finished telling a group of about 75 tea party followers Thursday night that politicians should not allow themselves to be influenced by lobbyists and unions when she received an unexpected invitation.

"It sounds to me that y'all ought to be joining us," said Jerry Rains, a 64-year-old computer programmer and tea party member. "You have a lot of the same goals we have, which is to take our country back."

Pope and fellow Occupy Memphis protester Tristan Tran had a lively, sometimes strained and confrontational, but mostly civil discussion with members of the Mid-South Tea Party at a municipal meeting hall outside Memphis.

The factions saw eye-to-eye on some issues and clashed on others. And, while the young speakers didn't change many minds, they did earn praise from the tea party members for their passion, honesty and courage.

417 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:04:13am

re: #416 Lidane

Oh, this promises to be fun. I wonder if it will become a trend:

Tea Party Members Meet With Occupy Memphis, Praise Efforts Of Protesters

I think I heard some heads asploding.

418 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:04:19am

re: #393 Alouette

There are plenty of Anti-Semites who hide behind "criticism of Israel." Comparing the IDF to nazis, or singling out Israel for doing the same things that other countries do to defend themselves, while never criticizing any other country who commits far more egregious human rights abuse--that's Anti-Semitic.

Yes, I didn't mean to say that there aren't such people. I've seen scores of them. Antisemites will hide behind criticizing Israel, "Zionists", etc. One must be on a look-out for them when it comes to this topic.

419 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:05:35am

re: #415 Obdicut

Ahem. The people pressuring Obama to stop these practices also includes people who self-identify as 'conservatives', like Rightwingconspirator. There are also lots of less-reputable Ron Paul types who want to stop these practices who are definitely right-wing.

This is true. I do think the majority of the opposition to rendition/drone strikes etc. comes from liberals, but you're right that there are some isolationist/libertarians/"sane conservatives" in there as well.

420 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:05:47am

Argumentum ad Obama does it.

421 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:05:57am

Oh, brother...

Occupy San Diego holds moment of silence/solidarity for White House shooter [VIDEO]

The Occupy Wall Street movement has found some strange bedfellows in its first few months, like multimillionaire Michael Moore and Cat in the Hat actor Alec Baldwin. But perhaps the craziest person to be endorsed by the movement may be Oscar Ramiro Ortega, the 21-year-old suspected of firing an assault rifle at the White House this week.

Down at Occupy San Diego, a protester proposed a moment of solidarity regarding the event, though his remarks aren’t exactly clear on whether they’re in solidarity with the shooter himself, with the White House building or with both.

“I think we should have a moment of silence in solidarity for the person they said was from the Washington, D.C. Occupy. Maybe, why did he feel the need to shoot the White House window today?” he asked.

“So I think we should have a moment in solidarity for the White House, and for the guy that shot at the White House today. I don’t know if you heard, but someone shot at the White House window today.”

422 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:06:39am

re: #420 Gus 802

Argumentum ad Obama does it.

Based on conspiracy theories.

423 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:07:47am

Sad news from the sports world...

Oklahoma State women's basketball coaches die in Arkansas plane crash

STILLWATER, Okla. — Oklahoma State University women's basketball coach Kurt Budke and assistant coach Miranda Serna were killed when the single-engine plane they were riding in during a recruiting trip crashed near a wildlife management area in central Arkansas.

The university said the pair died in the crash Thursday night near Perryville, about 45 miles west of Little Rock. The Winona Wildlife Management Area is in steep terrain in the eastern Ouachita Mountains, but a cause of the crash was not announced.

In January 2001, 10 men affiliated with the university's men's basketball team died in a Colorado plane crash.

424 albusteve  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:07:53am

re: #417 thedopefishlives

I think I heard some heads asploding.

yeah, it freaks people out...their world view falls apart when they can't divide every whisper and move into left vs right....you could write a whole book regarding this single event....ha

425 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:08:07am

re: #416 Lidane

Oh, this promises to be fun. I wonder if it will become a trend:

Tea Party Members Meet With Occupy Memphis, Praise Efforts Of Protesters

Well, in all fairness, there's a decent amount of overlap between the two groups on some things (Even while they're likely worlds apart on many others). And it's hard for me to be anything but encouraged by what was hopefully an honest discussion of ideas.

426 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:08:24am

re: #421 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, brother...

Occupy San Diego holds moment of silence/solidarity for White House shooter [VIDEO]

From the paragraph quoted:

Down at Occupy San Diego, a protester proposed a moment of solidarity regarding the event, though his remarks aren’t exactly clear on whether they’re in solidarity with the shooter himself, with the White House building or with both.

ZOMG! One guy said something stupid and vague! OWS is a farce! Eleventy!

427 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:09:16am

re: #414 iossarian

Concern trolling at its finest.

Bingo.

Concern

trolling covers a lot of what we've been seeing here recently.

428 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:09:23am

re: #426 Lidane

From the paragraph quoted:

That headline made me laugh. "OUR PAGE RANK IS SLIPPING, QUICK MAKE UP SOMETHING CONTROVERSIAL."

429 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:09:40am

From quick reading I see in any case the renditions under Obama have become massively rarer than under Bush. Interesting. If I read some comments correctly, they imply that Obama actually increased this thing in order to compensate for not torturing, etc. (I apologize if it's a misreading). This does not seem to be the case, quite the opposite.

430 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:09:42am

re: #421 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, brother...

Occupy San Diego holds moment of silence/solidarity for White House shooter [VIDEO]

Seriously? That's not really what happened there. And it's not uncommon for Catholics, for example, to engage in these sorts of things. It was also just a small group and in fact was just the idea of one (1) individual. That piece was also written by Jordan Bloom of the right-wing website Daily Caller.

431 vegimo  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:09:58am

The full 20-minute video "manifesto" is here:

Appeal to Oprah.

You could say that he is right, left, libertarian, or whatever, but it would just be an attempt to categorize a confused stoner as a member of the "other side" in order to make "them" look bad.

432 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:11:24am

re: #430 Gus 802

Seriously? That's not really what happened there. And it's not uncommon for Catholics, for example, to engage in these sorts of things. It was also just a small group and in fact was just the idea of one (1) individual. That piece was also written by Jordan Bloom of the right-wing website Daily Caller.

Every member of every church which has ever had a moment of prayer for someone who committed a crime is now a ZOMG MOONBAT LOONIE.

I suspect that includes a lot of saddlebackin' good ol' boys.

433 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:12:14am

re: #426 Lidane

From the paragraph quoted:

Oh yeah, it was only one guy! All those people in the video bowing for the moment of silence was only (fill in the blank) number of people. The protesters who attacked the police in NYC last night with sharp objects, batteries, and liquids was only (fill in the blank) number of people.

Heh.

Nothing to see....move along.

434 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:12:32am

re: #421 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, brother...

Occupy San Diego holds moment of silence/solidarity for White House shooter [VIDEO]

That's beautiful:

But perhaps the craziest person to be endorsed by the movement may be Oscar Ramiro Ortega,

This is the kind of garbage that you base your criticism on? Did you read the article and think about the nature of the claims it makes?

435 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:12:58am

re: #433 NJDhockeyfan

Keep grinding that organ, propaganda monkey. You're doing your job well.

436 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:13:42am

re: #434 Talking Point Detective

re: #435 Lidane

I think the video speaks for itself.

437 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:14:01am

re: #433 NJDhockeyfan

Oh yeah, it was only one guy! All those people in the video bowing for the moment of silence was only (fill in the blank) number of people. The protesters who attacked the police in NYC last night with sharp objects, batteries, and liquids was only (fill in the blank) number of people.

Heh.

Nothing to see...move along.

Question: if a church pastor says: "let's pray for the victims of this crime, and let's also pray for those people who feel so desperate that they cannot see the right path to take", does that make all the members of the church who bow their heads in prayer complicit in the crime?

438 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:14:04am

re: #432 iossarian

Every member of every church which has ever had a moment of prayer for someone who committed a crime is now a ZOMG MOONBAT LOONIE.

I suspect that includes a lot of saddlebackin' good ol' boys.

Well, if they did hold this moment of silence for this guy (which doesn't seem to have been proven from more mainstream sources), that surely would be a very weird choice in any case. I would qualify them as whackjobs just for that (until proven otherwise).

439 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:14:08am

re: #431 vegimo

Hey now, why are you categorizing him as a stoner?

I mean, I know he's got the sleepy-eyed look and all.

440 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:14:16am

re: #432 iossarian

Every member of every church which has ever had a moment of prayer for someone who committed a crime is now a ZOMG MOONBAT LOONIE.

I suspect that includes a lot of saddlebackin' good ol' boys.

Pretty much. By this logic then even the Pope is a ZOMG MOONBAT! In any case this naive kid went on to include a moment of silence for the White House. A moment of silence is such as this is not meant to support the criminal act -- it's like when people pray for sinners. This story of course is being mis-characterized and abused by the likes of Andrew Breitbart and Jim Hoft.

441 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:14:42am

re: #437 iossarian

Question: if a church pastor says: "let's pray for the victims of this crime, and let's also pray for those people who feel so desperate that they cannot see the right path to take", does that make all the members of the church who bow their heads in prayer complicit in the crime?

You got a link for that?

442 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:15:15am

re: #441 NJDhockeyfan

You got a link for that?

You're not always this dense. It's a hypothetical.

443 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:15:25am

re: #441 NJDhockeyfan

You got a link for that?

You really need a link for that? Seriously?

444 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:15:33am

re: #437 iossarian

The Amish do this all the time, and I actually like them for it.

Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn

445 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:15:35am

re: #441 NJDhockeyfan

You got a link for that?

A link for what? Are you seriously questioning the fact that sort of thing happens?

446 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:15:43am

re: #441 NJDhockeyfan

You got a link for that?

It's a hypothetical. I've been to a fair number of churches, and that's not an uncommon reaction to a high-profile crime/atrocity.

447 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:15:47am

re: #441 NJDhockeyfan

Yep, see my 444.

448 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:16:02am

re: #445 Simply Sarah

A link for what? Are you seriously questioning the fact that sort of thing happens?

Face palm moment for sure.

449 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:16:09am

re: #440 Gus 802

If the Pope suddenly issued a press-release saying "Let's pray for Sandusky (and his victims too)", I sure would question the choice. Why this, of a sudden?

450 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:17:05am

re: #433 NJDhockeyfan

All those people in the video bowing for the moment of silence was only (fill in the blank) number of people.

Too funny. Did you watch the video? Can you figure out what the guy was even suggesting deserved a moment of silence?

451 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:17:18am

re: #449 Sergey Romanov

If the Pope suddenly issued a press-release saying "Let's pray for Sandusky (and his victims too)", I sure would question the choice. Why this, of a sudden?

Well, since it would be the Roman Catholic Pope, I actually might not be as surprised as you would think...

452 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:17:31am

re: #449 Sergey Romanov

If the Pope suddenly issued a press-release saying "Let's pray for Sandusky (and his victims too)", I sure would question the choice. Why this, of a sudden?

Jesus was quite nice to the tax collector. That's a part of the Gospels that people tend to forget.

453 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:17:57am

re: #449 Sergey Romanov

If the Pope suddenly issued a press-release saying "Let's pray for Sandusky (and his victims too)", I sure would question the choice. Why this, of a sudden?

That's completely fair enough. But this isn't a press release from an undisputed leader, but a guy asking for a moment of silence in a confused manner. If I was there, I'd probably just be confused. Hell, I am confused by it.

454 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:18:41am

re: #441 NJDhockeyfan

You got a link for that?

I say that we condemn the Amish for praying for the family and perpetrator of that mass murder a while back.

Amish = dirty hippies.

455 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:19:45am

re: #454 Talking Point Detective

The Amish are basically hippies of a conservative bent.

Fun fact: You know why the Amish don't wear mustaches? They equate them with the military. They may be slightly behind the times.

456 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:19:56am

Incidentally, I certainly pray for people who have urges towards pedophilia, because a) if often stems from their own abuse in the first place, and b) it must be fucking awful to go through life with an urge/compulsion which you know there is no way to satisfy.

457 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:19:56am

re: #436 NJDhockeyfan

re: #435 Lidane

I think the video speaks for itself.

How many people did you count bowing in silence?

458 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:20:25am

re: #455 Obdicut

The Amish are basically hippies of a conservative bent.

Fun fact: You know why the Amish don't wear mustaches? They equate them with the military. They may be slightly behind the times.

Quakers = hippies!!

459 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:20:30am

re: #450 Talking Point Detective

Too funny. Did you watch the video? Can you figure out what the guy was even suggesting deserved a moment of silence?

Yes. Again, the quote:

“I think we should have a moment of silence in solidarity for the person they said was from the Washington, D.C. Occupy. Maybe, why did he feel the need to shoot the White House window today?” he asked.

“So I think we should have a moment in solidarity for the White House, and for the guy that shot at the White House today. I don’t know if you heard, but someone shot at the White House window today.”

460 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:21:05am

re: #459 NJDhockeyfan

Yes. Again, the quote:

So what.

461 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:21:13am

re: #459 NJDhockeyfan

Yes. Again, the quote:

I note you are not trying to answer my question.

462 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:21:23am

I certainly won't deny that there are extremists that join OWS and that with time their numbers increased (I predicted as much). I don't excuse this - I don't like extremists, be they violent anarchists or people who choose to publicly pray for would-be terrorists (I'm unclear as to whether this happened in this case or was a mishap).

463 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:22:07am

re: #459 NJDhockeyfan

Yes. Again, the quote:

It's badly worded, but it certainly doesn't come off to be as trying to support the guy's actions. The opposite, if anything.

464 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:22:13am

re: #459 NJDhockeyfan

That's what has your panties in a twist today?

You've got to be kidding.

465 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:22:30am

re: #460 Gus 802

So what.

"Occupy the police department!"

466 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:22:37am

re: #444 Obdicut

The Amish do this all the time, and I actually like them for it.

Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn

Sorry I missed that earlier.

I still choke up when I hear about the Amish reaction to that school shooting. Unbelievable.

I also think of the approach in South Africa that allowed them to begin to move past apartheid.

467 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:23:01am

Mornin' everyone. Looks like someone is getting close to that "gotta go to work" moment...

468 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:23:35am

re: #462 Sergey Romanov

I certainly won't deny that there are extremists that join OWS and that with time their numbers increased (I predicted as much). I don't excuse this - I don't like extremists, be they violent anarchists or people who choose to publicly pray for would-be terrorists (I'm unclear as to whether this happened in this case or was a mishap).

I think there would be a difference between praying for a terrorist to commit an act and praying for a terrorist for his sinful ways. I'm sure you probably agree with this.

469 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:25:03am

re: #459 NJDhockeyfan

Yes. Again, the quote:

Did you watch the video? How many people bowed?

Was he praying for the White House, or the shooter? Both? What does it mean to be praying for both?

Do you seriously think that any significant % of OWSers are in support of someone who tried to assassinate Obama?

Right.

And folks here "support" raping and stabbing. Killgore has already proven that.

470 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:25:49am

re: #467 darthstar

Mornin' everyone. Looks like someone is getting close to that "gotta go to work" moment...

Speaking of which:

I gotta go to work.

Which just means closing LGF.

See ya all.

471 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:26:33am

Zionist frogs!
'Extinct' frog hops back into northern Israel

A frog species believed to be extinct has hopped back into sight in northern Israel.

Omri Gal of Israel's Nature and Parks Authority said Thursday the Hula Painted Frog was seen for the first time in 50 years this week. He said it was declared extinct.

472 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:26:38am

re: #468 Gus 802

I think there would be a difference between praying for a terrorist to commit an act and praying for a terrorist for his sinful ways. I'm sure you probably agree with this.

Sure there is a difference, and with that difference illuminated I stand by my words. Moment of silence is a message. Suppose a Tea Party publicly prayed for salvation of the soul of some doctor-killer after he had done his deed. The choice of the object of prayer is a message. (Again, it's not clear to me this is what happened in this case.)

473 vegimo  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:26:51am

re: #439 Obdicut

Hey now, why are you categorizing him as a stoner?

I mean, I know he's got the sleepy-eyed look and all.

Well, if you watch the video...

...and being a stoner is not what makes him a nut.

474 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:27:09am

Maybe it's time to upgrade these asbestos scales for something a little more heat-resistant. I hear there's a surplus of Space Shuttle heat shield tiles on the market these days.

475 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:28:42am
476 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:31:48am

re: #471 Killgore Trout

Zionist frogs!
'Extinct' frog hops back into northern Israel

Doesn't he know he's supposed to be extinct?

477 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:32:03am

re: #403 Gus 802

"Yeah, but you don't know what they're doing to these detainees while in transit! It's far more secret than it was under the Bush administration! They're still being tortured!" -- Alex Jones

//I made that up but it sounds pretty close to me.

yup

[Link: www.infowars.com...]

478 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:32:15am

Radar on.

479 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:32:44am

Very cool chart visualizing international debt:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

480 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:34:06am

re: #473 vegimo

Well, if you watch the video...

...and being a stoner is not what makes him a nut.

Yes. I always take some obscure naive 18 year old kid on some internet video seriously.

//

481 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:36:11am

re: #472 Sergey Romanov

(Again, it's not clear to me this is what happened in this case.)

Having watched the video, some guy on the spur of the moment and when no details seem to have been known (note he says something like, don't you know somebody shot a WH window) mangled this call for a moment of silence, and even included solidarity with the White House in this call. Whatever his intentions were, I'm quite positive that the people who did not want to break a spontaneous moment of silence because of this confused call don't support terrorism. So it's not like some pre-planned pro-terrorist event or a gotcha moment, sorry righties.

482 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:37:05am

re: #480 Gus 802

Yes. I always take some obscure naive 18 year old kid on some internet video seriously.

//

He represents us all!
//

483 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:38:30am

re: #480 Gus 802

Yes. I always take some obscure naive 18 year old kid on some internet video seriously.

//

So you're a fan of Dylan Avery then.

484 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:38:42am

I should do more research here but this is a close example:

I think his faith and his comfort with himself accounts for that optimism. Since he felt that everything happens for a reason, he never saw things darkly. After he was shot and we almost lost him, he lay on his hospital bed staring at the ceiling and praying. He told me that he realized he couldn't pray just for himself, that it wouldn't be right, and that he also had to pray for John Hinckley. Hinckley's parents sent him a note and he wrote a nice one back to them.

They are speaking of course about Ronald Reagan.

485 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:42:58am

"You know, Patti," Ronald Reagan says, "when I was lying there in the hospital wondering if I was going to die, I spent a lot of time praying, and I knew I couldn't just pray for myself. I had to pray for John Hinckley, too. If God loves me, then in spite of everything, He must also love John Hinckley."

My Turn: The Memoirs of Nancy Reagan
By Nancy Reagan

486 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:43:05am

re: #484 Gus 802

I should do more research here but this is a close example:

I think his faith and his comfort with himself accounts for that optimism. Since he felt that everything happens for a reason, he never saw things darkly. After he was shot and we almost lost him, he lay on his hospital bed staring at the ceiling and praying. He told me that he realized he couldn't pray just for himself, that it wouldn't be right, and that he also had to pray for John Hinckley. Hinckley's parents sent him a note and he wrote a nice one back to them.

They are speaking of course about Ronald Reagan.

PWND.

487 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:44:06am

re: #486 iossarian

PWND.

A tu quoque using former President Ronald Wilson Reagan! It's out of the ball park! Boom! ;)

488 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:44:52am

Protester talking about Communist Revolution

489 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:45:16am

re: #485 Gus 802

I told you Reagan was a fuckin' pussy.
/

490 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:45:37am

re: #489 darthstar

I told you Reagan was a fuckin' pussy.
/

RINO!

491 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:45:59am

re: #486 iossarian

PWND.

Not really. Hinckley tried to kill Reagan, Reagan prayed for him. It's not the same situation at all if some third party was publicly praying for Hinckley.

492 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:46:05am

re: #488 Killgore Trout

Protester talking about Communist Revolution

[Video]

Big deal. Got anything else?

493 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:46:48am

Speaking of moronic left-right convergence, here is Rapper Immortal Technique (released an OWS-themed album for free just a couple of weks ago) appearing on The Alex Jones Show recently:

Obama is A War President

494 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:46:50am

re: #491 Sergey Romanov

Not really. Hinckley tried to kill Reagan, Reagan prayed for him. It's not the same situation at all if some third party was publicly praying for Hinckley.

I think it is. It's very much in a similar vein and come from the same type of religious thinking.

495 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:47:44am

re: #491 Sergey Romanov

Not really. Hinckley tried to kill Reagan, Reagan prayed for him. It's not the same situation at all if some third party was publicly praying for Hinckley.

As I recall, the Pope also prayed for Mehmet Agca.

496 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:47:54am

re: #494 Gus 802

I think it is. It's very much in a similar vein and come from the same type of religious thinking.

No, the similar situation would be if Obama himself prayed for this crazy shooter.

497 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:48:32am

re: #495 Alouette

Yep. Forgiveness and all that. It's the victim's choice whether to forgive or not. Not other people's.

498 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:48:51am

re: #496 Sergey Romanov

No, the similar situation would be if Obama himself prayed for this crazy shooter.

Works for me. It's all about "forgiveness."

499 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:49:19am

re: #495 Alouette

As I recall, the Pope also prayed for Mehmet Agca.

Sounds right.

500 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:49:40am

Let's not forget Jesus...that dude would forgive anyone at the drop of a hat.

501 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:50:17am

I sometimes think about what the word forgive really means personally.

502 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:50:33am

re: #500 darthstar

Let's not forget Jesus...that dude would forgive anyone at the drop of a hat.

Not Conservapedia Jesus™!

503 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:50:40am

re: #492 Gus 802

Big deal. Got anything else?

Obviously you support rapes and stabbings.

504 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:50:43am

argggg. Warning: Whirled Nuts Daily kookspiracy site link, Per them the shooter might be right....

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

505 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:51:22am

re: #503 Talking Point Detective

Obviously you support rapes and stabbings.

Yep! And being a follower of Hitchens I too support Marxist revolutions.

No. Wait!

//

506 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:51:28am

re: #495 Alouette

As I recall, the Pope also prayed for Mehmet Agca.

It's kind of tough when you're Pope. You come out and speak to 50,000 people standing around below your balcony and say, "I hope someone kills that fucker." and people are going to question your tone.

507 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:52:00am

re: #498 Gus 802

Works for me. It's all about "forgiveness."

The other reason why it doesn't work as an analogy, in addition to the one pointed out above, is that in Reagan-Hinckley situation it is clear why Reagan prayed specifically for Hinckley and not some random murderer-thief-pedo. As I pointed out, the choice is the message.
(And once again, I will point out that it's unclear what the OWS guy meant and the crowd is not to be blamed for it, so for me it's an abstract discussion.)

508 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:52:37am

re: #488 Killgore Trout

Protester talking about Communist Revolution

[Video]

Sign mentions URL
[Link: www.plp.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

509 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:53:22am

re: #505 Gus 802

Yep! And being a follower of Hitchens I too support Marxist revolutions.

No. Wait!

//

To be fair, KT says he's not a "follower" of Hitchens.

510 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:53:42am

re: #504 Thanos

arggg. Warning: Whirled Nuts Daily kookspiracy site link, Per them the shooter might be right...

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

Kovacs really shouldn't be doing acid before he writes. Oh wait this is how every article on Joe "Stalin stache" Farah's website is.

511 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:53:51am

re: #507 Sergey Romanov

The other reason why it doesn't work as an analogy, in addition to the one pointed out above, is that in Reagan-Hinckley situation it is clear why Reagan prayed specifically for Hinckley and not some random murderer-thief-pedo. As I pointed out, the choice is the message.
(And once again, I will point out that it's unclear what the OWS guy meant and the crowd is not to be blamed for it, so for me it's an abstract discussion.)

This isn't my life's work so I don't have anything else to add. I'm sticking to my assessment.

512 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:54:11am

re: #511 Gus 802

This isn't my life's work so I don't have anything else to add. I'm sticking to my assessment.

As I am to mine.

513 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:54:12am

re: #508 000G

Sign mentions URL
[Link: www.plp.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The Progressive Labor Party (originally the Progressive Labor Movement and often referred to as PL) is a transnational communist party based primarily in the United States with a membership of two people.
And 50% of its members are at OWS!!!

514 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:54:36am

re: #511 Gus 802

re: #512 Sergey Romanov

What we have here is a Mexican standoff. Only there ain't any Mexicans.

515 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:54:48am

re: #512 Sergey Romanov

As I am to mine.

I win!

//

516 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:55:37am

re: #513 darthstar

The Progressive Labor Party (originally the Progressive Labor Movement and often referred to as PL) is a transnational communist party based primarily in the United States with a membership of two people.
And 50% of its members are at OWS!!!

I'm guessing that's vandalism. Just a hunch.

517 vegimo  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:55:44am

re: #480 Gus 802

Yes. I always take some obscure naive 18 year old kid on some internet video seriously.

//

My point is not:
Take this kid seriously.

My point is:
Watch the video, then classify him if you can. Don't just say, "He called Obama the Anti-Christ, THAT'S a Right-Wing Meme. Ergo, HAH!"

518 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:56:12am

re: #512 Sergey Romanov

As I am to mine.

I think the guy is probably a conservative who went to stage a moment of silence for the shooter so he could put it on youtube. He had to start with a call for the White House in order to get people to listen.
--my tin foil hat is snug today.

519 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:56:28am

re: #507 Sergey Romanov

The other reason why it doesn't work as an analogy, in addition to the one pointed out above, is that in Reagan-Hinckley situation it is clear why Reagan prayed specifically for Hinckley and not some random murderer-thief-pedo. As I pointed out, the choice is the message.
(And once again, I will point out that it's unclear what the OWS guy meant and the crowd is not to be blamed for it, so for me it's an abstract discussion.)

In that case we have to go back to Jesus and the tax collector again.

520 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:56:33am

re: #515 Gus 802

I win!

//

Not really, as I addressed your argument, and you didn't address mine.
//

521 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:56:43am

re: #517 vegimo

My point is not:
Take this kid seriously.

My point is:
Watch the video, then classify him if you can. Don't just say, "He called Obama the Anti-Christ, THAT'S a Right-Wing Meme. Ergo, HAH!"

Sorry, but my intertoob translator is broken this morning. Can you repeat that?

522 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:56:45am

re: #519 iossarian

?

523 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:57:21am

re: #514 thedopefishlives

re: #512 Sergey Romanov

What we have here is a Mexican standoff. Only there ain't any Mexicans.

Hola muchachos. Que pasa?

524 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:57:29am

re: #518 darthstar

I think the guy is probably a conservative who went to stage a moment of silence for the shooter so he could put it on youtube. He had to start with a call for the White House in order to get people to listen.
--my tin foil hat is snug today.

He didn't start with the White House.

525 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:57:31am

No one gives a crap about "moment of silence guy" except for wingnuts.

End of story.

526 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:58:19am

Small rant but I hate his time of year. Dry air is hell on my nose.

527 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:58:55am

re: #509 Sergey Romanov

To be fair, KT says he's not a "follower" of Hitchens.

But he asserts that people who are sympathetic to OWS "support" rape and stabbings.

Not to justify inaccurate categorizations of him, but to point out his selective clarification of what people do or don't support.

528 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:58:58am

re: #508 000G

Sign mentions URL
[Link: www.plp.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Weird source, btw:
[Link: www.youtube.com...]
[Link: www.leimageinc.com...]

529 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:59:06am

re: #526 HappyWarrior

Good rant. Because small.

;)

530 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:59:06am

re: #525 Gus 802

No one gives a crap about "moment of silence guy" except for wingnuts.

End of story.

He's like Rudy...or the geeky friend who tries to start an inspirational clap at the end of a teen movie and fails.

531 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:59:23am

re: #529 Sergey Romanov

Good rant. Because small.

;)

Mongo like small rants.

532 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:59:35am

re: #522 Sergey Romanov

?

The tax collector is ripping people off, collaborating with the Romans. Jesus does not mind - he hangs out with him and implicitly forgives him.

It's just an example of Christian forgiveness of/compassion for someone who has harmed a third party without that third party's consent.

533 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 7:59:57am

re: #529 Sergey Romanov

Good rant. Because small.

;)

Ha, thanks. Seriously bloody noses are something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies.

534 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:00:40am

I have a date with my two daughters. It's daddy lunch day at school so I'm on my way to Occupy the cafeteria and have some turkey.

Later lizards!

535 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:00:52am

re: #532 iossarian

The tax collector is ripping people off, collaborating with the Romans. Jesus does not mind - he hangs out with him and implicitly forgives him.

It's just an example of Christian forgiveness of/compassion for someone who has harmed a third party without that third party's consent.

In the end, though, he gets executed for his sins. Not the tax collector...Jesus...only after a fair trial though.

536 Kragar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:01:12am
537 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:01:22am

re: #513 darthstar

The Progressive Labor Party (originally the Progressive Labor Movement and often referred to as PL) is a transnational communist party based primarily in the United States with a membership of two people.
And 50% of its members are at OWS!!!

Did you catch the part of the rant where he decried "we are the 99%" as "passive?"

So while at the OWS, he stated his disagreement with OWS.

Are you making some larger point here?

538 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:01:33am

re: #532 iossarian

Is this supposed to somehow relate to the situation at hand?

539 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:01:33am

@AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
Watch the MSM Ignore #Occupy Moment of Silence in ‘Solidarity’ With Suspected White House Shooter

540 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:02:03am

Gah! xkcd today is a classic! I know that feeling all too well.

[Link: xkcd.com...]

541 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:02:41am

re: #537 Talking Point Detective

Did you catch the part of the rant where he decried "we are the 99%" as "passive?"

So while at the OWS, he stated his disagreement with OWS.

Are you making some larger point here?

I didn't bother to watch the video. There are eccentric idiots in every crowd. I don't feel the need to know who this one is.

542 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:02:58am

re: #534 NJDhockeyfan

I have a date with my two daughters. It's daddy lunch day at school so I'm on my way to Occupy the cafeteria and have some turkey.

Later lizards!

Just remember to not play with your food!

543 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:03:31am

re: #536 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Herman Cain Asks Secret Service To Protect Him — From Cameras

I've been noticing a trend with Republican candidates since Palin and that is a refusal to answer questions from the media.

544 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:03:44am

re: #539 Gus 802

What's interesting about this whole debate is that someone who spends a great deal of his time ridiculing the ideology of Breitbart mimics Beritbart with respect to OWS.

545 Randall Gross  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:04:34am

re: #513 darthstar

They have more than two members, remember anyone can edit wikipedia. Here's their newsletter, where you can see their tent in Baltimore, with a picture of two different people from the one you saw in the NY video. They are also active with ILWU in Oakland, and reaching out to Palestinians.

Warning : Radical Communist Org Newsletter PDF

[Link: www.plp.org...]

546 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:05:09am

re: #538 Sergey Romanov

Is this supposed to somehow relate to the situation at hand?

Yes. Wingnuts are ranting because a guy at OWS said "let's have a moment of silence for the White House and the shooter" or words to that effect.

I am simply pointing out that compassion for criminals is something that Jesus was keen on.

Wingnuts are often keen on Jesus themselves (in a manly way of course) so I thought it was apropos.

547 albusteve  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:05:40am

re: #541 darthstar

I didn't bother to watch the video. There are eccentric idiots in every crowd. I don't feel the need to know who this one is.

choose a side or get out!

548 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:05:50am

re: #545 Thanos

Fringe elements acting fringey. Fuck 'em.

549 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:05:56am

re: #543 HappyWarrior

I've been noticing a trend with Republican candidates since Palin and that is a refusal to answer questions from the media.

Because the media are out to get them, don'tcha know.

550 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:06:19am

re: #546 iossarian

OK, but that's an abstract thought. I don't think that in real world such thing should be tolerated (if the situation permits). YMMV.

551 RadicalModerate  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:06:21am

re: #421 NJDhockeyfan

Oh, brother...

Occupy San Diego holds moment of silence/solidarity for White House shooter [VIDEO]

You might want to find a source a bit more trustworthy than the birthers over at Tucker Carlson's "Daily Caller". What next? WND?

552 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:06:41am

re: #549 thedopefishlives

Because the media are out to get them, don'tcha know.

With their gotcha questions. How dare they be asked about trivial things like policy.

553 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:06:58am

re: #547 albusteve

choose a side or get out!

Why must I choose? Can't the sides choose me?

554 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:07:04am

re: #508 000G

Sign mentions URL
[Link: www.plp.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

They seem nice.

555 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:07:37am

re: #553 darthstar

Why must I choose? Can't the sides choose me?

As long as you don't mind being picked last.

/

556 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:08:00am

re: #552 HappyWarrior

With their gotcha questions. How dare they be asked about trivial things like policy.

Policy? We don't need no STINKIN' policy. We're anti-Obama, that should be good enough for Joe American.

557 albusteve  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:08:07am

re: #553 darthstar

Why must I choose? Can't the sides choose me?

maybe, I just flip them all my middlewinger

558 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:08:24am

re: #550 Sergey Romanov

OK, but that's an abstract thought.

It's funny that you would argue about the abstractness of religious arguments.

;-)

559 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:08:28am

re: #555 iossarian

As long as you don't mind being picked last.

/

I always got picked last. A few times I got picked "next to last" and I felt like I had arrived.

560 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:08:59am

re: #557 albusteve

maybe, I just flip them all my middlewinger

You show them your little wanger?

561 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:09:14am

re: #550 Sergey Romanov

OK, but that's an abstract thought. I don't think that in real world such thing should be tolerated (if the situation permits). YMMV.

MMDV! I think compassion for one's enemies is a hallmark of a civilized society.

562 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:09:16am

re: #558 000G

I see it as an observation, a thought, not as an argument as such.

563 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:09:39am

re: #551 RadicalModerate

You might want to find a source a bit more trustworthy than the birthers over at Tucker Carlson's "Daily Caller". What next? WND?

They don't care.

564 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:10:36am

re: #562 Sergey Romanov

I see it as an observation, a thought, not as an argument as such.

I guess I have a very different understanding of the nature of logic.

565 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:11:12am

Compassion is a Marxist Nazi value just like empathy.////
Seriously was it Beck who claimed that empathy was something the Nazis practiced?

566 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:12:20am

Okay..time to run the dogs...Friday is swim day...so they get to splash around in the bay for a while.

567 Kronocide  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:12:49am
568 vegimo  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:13:01am

re: #521 Gus 802

Sorry, but my intertoob translator is broken this morning. Can you repeat that?

I understand you're trying to play with me, and I did catch the sarcasm in your post. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you were telling me that I shouldn't pay attention to some naive 18-year-old. That was not my point. I was saying that Charles' attempt to tie this kid to the right was misguided.

569 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:13:12am

re: #561 iossarian

MMDV! I think compassion for one's enemies is a hallmark of a civilized society.

Sorry, that's a straw man (as if I were arguing against compassion for enemies). However in this modern world such a thing (a moment of solidarity(!) and silence) means a message of either support or at least tolerance of action, whether one wants it or not. (Obvious exceptions, like praying for one's personal enemy, excluded.)

570 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:14:21am

re: #564 000G

I guess I have a very different understanding of the nature of logic.

Sorry, don't know what you're talking about. That was a thought about wingnuts, not an argument I was supposed to engage.

571 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:16:25am

re: #491 Sergey Romanov

Not really. Hinckley tried to kill Reagan, Reagan prayed for him. It's not the same situation at all if some third party was publicly praying for Hinckley.

If they were called on it, most non-crazy Christians would have to admit that praying for your enemies is "the Christian thing to do".

572 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:18:30am

re: #548 darthstar

Fringe elements acting fringey. Fuck 'em.

I won't be able to sleep tonight!

//

573 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:21:04am

re: #548 darthstar

Fringe elements acting fringey. Fuck 'em.

Didn't your mama ever tell you not to stick your dick in crazy?

574 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:21:14am

Heh. Didn't forecast that, eh?

Zombie Banks Drain Celente's Account!

575 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:22:50am

re: #568 vegimo

I understand you're trying to play with me, and I did catch the sarcasm in your post. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you were telling me that I shouldn't pay attention to some naive 18-year-old. That was not my point. I was saying that Charles' attempt to tie this kid to the right was misguided.

You would be wrong. Charles didn't tie Ortega to the right. He was merely pointing out the similarities with "right wing ideas." The key word being "ideas." That includes all of the rapture ready, anti-Obama, Obama is the antichrist, and End Times ideas.

576 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:22:54am

re: #574 000G

Heh. Didn't forecast that, eh?

Zombie Banks Drain Celente's Account!

[Video]

Gerald Celente : I got burned by MF Global said Gerald Celente , he lost six figures amount of money to the MF Global's bankruptcy which went belly up because of the European sovereign debt crisis... Justice should b spelled Just US says Gerald Celente , MF Globals should be called mother F* Globals says Gerald Celente

*smirk*

577 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:23:15am

OMG! Obama's evil drones now being used against the British!
Britons Killed By US Drone, Families Say

Two British terrorism suspects have died in a US drone strike in northwest Pakistan, their family and friends believe.

Ibrahim Adam and Mohammed Azmir were thought to have been killed by a CIA missile in Waziristan, a region which borders Afghanistan.

A close friend of Azmir's family, who did not want to be named, was quoted as telling PA: "They have taken it very badly - this is the second son who has been killed in a drone strike."

Father-of-three Azmir was born in Sheffield and lived in Ilford, Essex.

The 37-year-old was made subject to a Treasury order freezing his assets in February 2010 in response to concerns he was involved in funding terrorism.

They were just eating fish and chips! The madness must stop!

578 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:23:39am

re: #569 Sergey Romanov

Sorry, that's a straw man (as if I were arguing against compassion for enemies). However in this modern world such a thing (a moment of solidarity(!) and silence) means a message of either support or at least tolerance of action, whether one wants it or not. (Obvious exceptions, like praying for one's personal enemy, excluded.)

Well, we disagree. I think it's fine, and in fact good, to publicly express compassion for one's enemies.

579 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:24:35am

re: #577 Killgore Trout

OMG! Obama's evil drones now being used against the British!
Britons Killed By US Drone, Families Say

They were just eating fish and chips! The madness must stop!

Damn dude. You're making light of that incident? WTF is wrong with you?

580 iossarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:25:46am

re: #577 Killgore Trout

OMG! Obama's evil drones now being used against the British!
Britons Killed By US Drone, Families Say

They were just eating fish and chips! The madness must stop!

Cool it with the fucking cheerleading, OK.

I'm out of here.

581 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:26:17am

re: #577 Killgore Trout

OMG! Obama's evil drones now being used against the British!
Britons Killed By US Drone, Families Say

They were just eating fish and chips! The madness must stop!

You make LGF sound like 2007 again :-)

582 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:27:05am

re: #579 Gus 802

Damn dude. You're making light of that incident? WTF is wrong with you?

Outrageous! Obama's war on the British must be stopped. What's next, Big Ben?
Lead me to the nearest drum circle.

583 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:27:05am

re: #581 000G

You make LGF sound like 2007 2004 again :-)

FTFY

/No sarcasm.

584 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:27:24am

Boom!

585 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:27:59am

re: #578 iossarian

Well, we disagree. I think it's fine, and in fact good, to publicly express compassion for one's enemies.

1. Solidarity is not the same as compassion.
2. And if a group will make a point of expressing its compassion in public gatherings towards, say, pedophiles, it would be only fair to ask what they were up to and whether they were expressing this compassion as enemies.

586 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:29:37am

re: #584 Killgore Trout

Boom!

Boom! Yes. That's about all the action a chickenhawk like you will ever see.

587 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:30:59am

re: #579 Gus 802

Damn dude. You're making light of that incident? WTF is wrong with you?

For all we know, that Brit was an OWS sympathizer and a hippie. It was for the best. Really.

///

588 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:32:45am

re: #579 Gus 802

You're over-reacting. If I accept the idea of remote-control war (police action?) at all, I'll give the drone operators benefit of the doubt on this one. The alternative is to lose a lot of kids invading a semi-ally so we can check IDs.

589 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:33:37am

re: #587 Lidane

In such instances I'm perfectly willing to give the benefit of doubt to Obama's admin. Cheering this, however, is ugly, as is cheering any war. Esp. as mistaken identities and collateral damage may always be involved.

590 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:33:51am

re: #584 Killgore Trout

Boom!

591 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:34:27am

I might as well add to the brainless fodder.

Alleged White House Shooter Ortega-Hernandez To Oprah: ‘I Am The Modern Day Jesus Christ’

In the video, apparently recorded by a student at Idaho State University, Ortega-Hernandez rants about the “gangster Olympics,” Discovery channel’s Shark Week, his advocacy for the legalization of marijuana, and his opposition to the U.S. stealing oil from other countries.

“Please do not take me as a joke or as a deception. I have never felt so sure that I was sent here by God to lead the world to Zion,” Ortega-Hernandez says.

There you go. He's obviously a leftist (sarcasm). Except for that last part which sounds like something from The Call and every other End Times church across America.

592 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:35:56am

re: #591 Gus 802

I might as well add to the brainless fodder.

Alleged White House Shooter Ortega-Hernandez To Oprah: ‘I Am The Modern Day Jesus Christ’

There you go. He's obviously a leftist (sarcasm). Except for that last part which sounds like something from The Call and every other End Times church across America.

Kid has a case of the crazy.

593 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:36:26am

re: #589 Sergey Romanov

In such instances I'm perfectly willing to give the benefit of doubt to Obama's admin. Cheering this, however, is ugly, as is cheering any war. Esp. as mistaken identities and collateral damage may always be involved.

What's a war without cheering?

594 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:36:43am

re: #588 Decatur Deb

You're over-reacting. If I accept the idea of remote-control war (police action/) at all, I'll give the drone operators benefit of the doubt on this one. The alternative is to lose a lot of kids invading a semi-ally so we can check IDs.

Both of them had previous connections to terrorism

595 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:40:48am

re: #594 Killgore Trout

Both of them had previous connections to terrorism

Didn't see the terrorist connection thing. But it's easy to get lost given the frequency of your trolling.

596 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:41:03am

re: #593 Decatur Deb

What's a war without cheering?

Over.

597 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:43:03am

But I guess entrapment is part of the tactic here.

598 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:43:24am

British terror suspects killed in U.S. drone attacks in remote region of Pakistan

Terror suspects Ibrahim Adam and Mohammed Azmir are thought to have died in a CIA missile strike on Waziristan,...

A close friend of Azmir's family, who did not want to be named, said: 'They have taken it very badly - this is the second son who has been killed in a drone strike.'
....
Adam, 24, from Barkingside, east London, had been on the run from the UK authorities since absconding from a control order in May 2007.

His brother, Anthony Garcia, was jailed for life in April 2007 for his part in a major fertiliser bomb plot to attack targets in London and across the UK.
....
Father-of-three Azmir, 37, who was born in Sheffield and lived in Ilford, Essex, was made subject to a Treasury order freezing his assets in February 2010 in response to concerns he was involved in funding terrorism.

599 vegimo  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:43:38am

re: #575 Gus 802

You would be wrong. Charles didn't tie Ortega to the right. He was merely pointing out the similarities with "right wing ideas." The key word being "ideas." That includes all of the rapture ready, anti-Obama, Obama is the antichrist, and End Times ideas.

You are correct. Charles didn't "tie" him to the right. He "linked" him to the right, or rather to some Fundamental Christians who associate with the right. What Charles wrote was that "it should be pointed out that what we know so far about his delusional ideas falls much more in line with right wing religious ideology." Because it was a much narrower classification, as you pointed out, I will retract that Charles' attempt was misguided. I will restate that what the kid says in his video would reveal him to be a nut. I also think that his references to Jesus, the Antichrist, and other religious themes are more free-form than "in line with right wing religious ideology."

600 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:44:24am

re: #569 Sergey Romanov

Sorry, that's a straw man (as if I were arguing against compassion for enemies). However in this modern world such a thing (a moment of solidarity(!) and silence) means a message of either support or at least tolerance of action, whether one wants it or not. (Obvious exceptions, like praying for one's personal enemy, excluded.)

I think that we can agree that the clip tells us nothing, really, about what that guy was thinking, or certainly what anyone else in the group was thinking.

But I would disagree, theoretically, with the argument that a moment of silence for someone means support or tolerance of their action. I'm not big into moments of silence (being agnostic), but that's not how I interpret them. A moment of silence = a moment for contemplation about any and/or all contextual aspects related to an event.

Expressing solidarity has a different connotation for me - but:

(1) It really isn't clear what that dude meant by solidarity, or who he was expressing solidarity with (I think you'll agree), and:

(2) Relatedly, you really need more context, in any situation, to understand what someone means when they express solidarity.

Asking the question is fine. Making assumptions as to the answer, I think (i.e., that it means support or tolerance for a given action) still requires more information.

601 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:45:42am

re: #596 000G

Over.

If it should be over, let's get the hell out and get ready for the next one.

602 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:49:13am

re: #601 Decatur Deb

If it should be over, let's get the hell out and get ready for the next one.

si pacem vis para bellum

603 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:52:48am

re: #602 000G

si pacem vis para bellum

That's on the unit heraldry of several of our military units.

604 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:53:28am

re: #602 000G

si pacem vis para bellum

A shlekhter sholem iz beser vi a guter krig.

/I always imagine my Sephardic ancestors frowning when I use Yiddish.

605 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:55:19am

re: #604 Obdicut

A shlekhter sholem iz beser vi a guter krig.

/I always imagine my Sephardic ancestors frowning when I use Yiddish.

Because they'd expect you to use Ladino?

606 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 8:56:49am

re: #605 000G

Short answer would be yes, though my ancestors were mostly from North Africa and/or Portugal, so they had different sub-dialects. My grandmother did speak a few phrases of Ladino, though.

607 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:04:37am

re: #600 Talking Point Detective

Haven't I pointed out numerous times that no, this doesn't apply to the clip at hand? Yes, I did.

608 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:10:33am

re: #606 Obdicut

Short answer would be yes, though my ancestors were mostly from North Africa and/or Portugal, so they had different sub-dialects. My grandmother did speak a few phrases of Ladino, though.

There's a whole 'nother Ladino, a sort of fossil Latin spoken by a small group in N. Italy, and a few other enclaves:

[Link: books.google.com...]

609 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:10:37am

Heh, I just noticed that killing terrorists now gets downdings. The times they are a changing.

610 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:11:27am

re: #609 Killgore Trout

Heh, I just noticed that killing terrorists now gets downdings. The times they are a changing.

That was a mistake on my part asshole. Here let me reverse it.

611 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:11:32am

re: #609 Killgore Trout

Which terrorists? The real ones or the imaginary ones over at Zucotti Park?

612 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:13:50am

re: #609 Killgore Trout

Heh, I just noticed that killing terrorists now gets downdings. The times they are a changing.

There. I reversed it. Now you and your buddies at Diary of Daeledus and Blogmocracy can stop worrying.

613 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:16:34am

re: #416 Lidane

Oh, this promises to be fun. I wonder if it will become a trend:

Tea Party Members Meet With Occupy Memphis, Praise Efforts Of Protesters

Mid-South Tea Party

Their website links to the Tea Party Patriots

They have an entry for that group there: [Link: www.teapartypatriots.org...]

On their website, a less benign approach to OWS:

[T]he Occupy Wall Street protesters have been around for about 50 days, compared to about 1,000 days for the Tea Party Patriots—and so far 2,500 “Occupy” protesters have been arrested (compared to zero Tea Party arrests), there have been 4 rapes at Occupy Wall Street protests (and no rapes at Tea Parties) and the OWS folks have caused about $2.4 million in property damage, whereas the Tea Party Patriots have actually been a source of revenue for the cities in which we protest because we pay permit fees for our protests and we leave the city spaces cleaner than when we arrived.

Oh, and no Tea Partier has been arrested for sniffing the feet of another man’s girlfriend, as happened recently at an “Occupy” protest, and Tea Partiers don’t steal things from each other, like in Zuccotti Park where an OWS organizer admitted that “stealing is our biggest problem.” Stealing and rape. And defecating on a police car. And defecating everywhere else.

The other difference can be found in the different ways that media and power elites treat OWS rapists, criminals and thieves, compared to the way the media and power elites have treated non-raping, non-criminal, and non-thieving patriotic Americans in the modern-day Tea Party movement.

The media, the White House, the administration and many members of Congress have joined together to parrot the phrases and champion the causes of the violent, criminal, anti-American Occupy Wall Street protesters, whereas the same media, White House, administration and members of Congress refer to Tea Partiers as an “angry mob” of “terrorists” who should “go to hell.”

Aside from the different ways that these two protest movements are treated by those on the outside, it is what’s on the inside that counts. I’m referring to the different core beliefs of these two vastly different groups.

The Tea Party Patriots have three core principles: fiscal responsibility, free markets, and Constitutionally limited government. By contrast, the Occupy Wall Street protesters are demanding less fiscal responsibility (they want more government spending), an end to free markets, and the overwhelming majority of OWS demands—from guaranteed wages to free tuition to universal health care and more government control over markets—all call for a radical expansion of the size and scope and power of government to control us, and to take care of us, from cradle to college to grave.

Occupy Wall Street is calling for a declaration of dependence on government; a call for more government control over our lives. It is the direct opposite of the Declaration of independence that sparked this nation into existence, and it is the direct opposite of the core principles of the modern-day Tea Party movement.

That is the main difference between the Tea Party movement and “Occupy” protesters. We, like America’s Founders, declare our independence from government. The Occupy Wall Street protesters declare their dependence on government.

[Link: www.teapartypatriots.org...]

614 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:18:12am

re: #609 Killgore Trout

How can an action that nobody here can have any relation to get downdings? Or did someone sneak to CIA HQ and paint a "[-]" on the wall?

615 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:18:17am

re: #609 Killgore Trout

Heh, I just noticed that killing terrorists now gets downdings. The times they are a changing.

Downdings from me were for obvious trolling. JFTR.

616 The Left  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:18:44am

re: #614 Sergey Romanov

did someone sneak to CIA HQ and paint a "[-]" on the wall?

HA!

617 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:19:43am

re: #616 iceweasel

HA!

You don't even know in what way these hippies "painted" it! Ugh!//

618 The Left  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:22:32am

re: #617 Sergey Romanov

You don't even know in what way these hippies "painted" it! Ugh!//

Filthy, dirty hippies. :-)

619 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:23:39am

re: #618 iceweasel

Filthy, dirty hippies. :-)

You actually have to get out of the house to even know what a hippie is in 2011. I mean other than sitting at home all day long looking at pictures on Day Life while eating bags of Cheetos.

//

620 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:23:41am

Cain requested Secret Service protection because reporters were getting too close?

[Cain spokesman JD Gordon] would not say how many Secret Service agents would be positioned with Cain, but the spokesman said the coverage began Thursday night in New York, where Cain taped an interview on the “Late Show with David Letterman.”

On the campaign trail, Cain “draws anywhere from a dozen to 50 media at his events,” Gordon said. “When he gets out at a rally or a campaign stop, it has been increasingly common for media to be physically putting themselves and others in danger by trying to follow him with a lot of heavy equipment and cameras in close quarters like we saw yesterday.”

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

621 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:24:28am

re: #607 Sergey Romanov

Haven't I pointed out numerous times that no, this doesn't apply to the clip at hand? Yes, I did.

I thought my comment was completely consistent with that. The point I intended to make was focused on the theoretical discussion.

If I said something that indicated otherwise, I apologize. It wasn't my intent.

622 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:25:05am

re: #613 000G

Their website links to the Tea Party Patriots

From that report:

Of all the Tea Party factions, Tea Party Patriots can rightly make the claim that it is the most grassroots. […] Despite its size, Tea Party Patriots budget is considerably smaller than FreedomWorks, Tea Party Express, and ResistNet

623 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:26:12am

re: #591 Gus 802

I might as well add to the brainless fodder.

Alleged White House Shooter Ortega-Hernandez To Oprah: ‘I Am The Modern Day Jesus Christ’

There you go. He's obviously a leftist (sarcasm). Except for that last part which sounds like something from The Call and every other End Times church across America.

Great...he'll be the next Joe the Plumber for the GOP...Ortega the Savior.

One should notice, however, that if you're going to be the next Jesus, you first have to get approval from the most powerful person on the planet - Oprah Winfrey.

624 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:26:33am

I'll just toss out a general question-What circumstance might end the recent OWS etc drama around here?

626 The Left  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:27:39am

re: #619 Gus 802

You actually have to get out of the house to even know what a hippie is in 2011. I mean other than sitting at home all day long looking at pictures on Day Life while eating bags of Cheetos.

//

Why leave the house when we can obviously know all there is to know about OWS, or anything else, by just surfing the intertubes? //

627 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:28:02am
628 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:28:03am

re: #624 Rightwingconspirator

I'll just toss out a general question-What circumstance might end the recent OWS etc drama around here?

Time.

629 Gus  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:28:36am

re: #626 iceweasel

Why leave the house when we can obviously know all there is to know about OWS, or anything else, by just surfing the intertubes? //

Heck. That's how "they" became Muslim experts and military experts. It's all right there on the intertoobs!

630 Kragar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:29:07am

re: #627 Obdicut

Dearborn?

My first thought was "Michigan?", but that works as well.

631 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:29:27am

re: #628 Sergey Romanov

Time.

Time ends everything, though.

632 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:29:41am
633 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:30:47am

re: #620 makeitstop

Cain requested Secret Service protection because reporters were getting too close?

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

If you can't stand the heat, stay the out of the kitchen.

634 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:31:01am
635 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:31:14am

re: #631 000G

636 Kragar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:31:44am

re: #632 HappyWarrior

America?

Roman Moroni Deported to Sweden. Says He's Not From There.

637 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:32:50am

Just heard about a big-assed firestorm in Reno last night...20 homes destroyed. I hope my patrol buddies who live there are alright.

638 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:33:05am

re: #631 000G

Time ends everything, though.

Why "though"?

639 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:33:55am

re: #298 Decatur Deb

He is also said to have a rosary tattoo. Must be from the Vatican neighborhoods of Tel Aviv.

I hear they have good pizza there.

640 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:34:06am

re: #635 Obdicut

[Video]

I guess that's more SFW than referencing Irréversible.

641 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:34:22am

So, what's new in rwnj OWSOCD, this morning.

642 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:34:51am

If you said the same crap about American Jews or Christians that Republicans get away with saying about American Muslims you'd be rightfully criticized politically but it's okay in the Republican Party to question the loyalty of Muslim Americans. Disgusting.

643 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:34:52am

re: #638 Sergey Romanov

Why "though"?

Why why?

644 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:35:06am

re: #638 Sergey Romanov

Why "though"?

Because time might end LGF before OWS bickering ends.

645 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:35:15am

re: #641 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So, what's new in rwnj OWSOCD, this morning.

No rapes or stabbings...yet.
/

646 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:35:25am

re: #625 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Womick: If Muslims Don't Like Being Banned From The Military, 'They Can Go Back To Where They Came From'

I'll bet he looks at every Latino person and assumes they're all from Mexico.

Moron.

647 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:35:31am

re: #642 HappyWarrior

Not just Muslim Americans, but Muslim men and women in the armed forces, risking their lives.

Derpitude of the highest blargh.

648 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:35:39am

re: #599 vegimo

You are correct. Charles didn't "tie" him to the right. He "linked" him to the right, or rather to some Fundamental Christians who associate with the right. What Charles wrote was that "it should be pointed out that what we know so far about his delusional ideas falls much more in line with right wing religious ideology." Because it was a much narrower classification, as you pointed out, I will retract that Charles' attempt was misguided. I will restate that what the kid says in his video would reveal him to be a nut. I also think that his references to Jesus, the Antichrist, and other religious themes are more free-form than "in line with right wing religious ideology."

You should try reading more carefully. What I wrote is very clear -- what we know about Ortega's ideology DOES fall much more in line with right wing libertarian/religious ideology than with any "leftist" ideology. The post is pointing out that the almost instantaneous rush by the right to link Ortega to OWS and the left is just flat out wrong, based on what we know about his delusional ideas.

There are NO leftist groups that claim Obama is the anti-Christ, but there are MANY right wing groups that do.

649 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:35:59am

re: #644 000G

Because time might end LGF before OWS bickering ends.

Well, you only said you wondered what would end the bickering. >.>

650 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:36:18am

re: #647 Obdicut

Not just Muslim Americans, but Muslim men and women in the armed forces, risking their lives.

Derpitude of the highest blargh.

Asshole should be in a nuthouse not the state house.

651 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:36:29am

re: #649 Simply Sarah

Well, you only said you wondered what would end the bickering. >.>

No, I didn't.

652 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:37:03am

re: #646 Lidane

I'll bet he looks at every Latino person and assumes they're all from Mexico.

Moron.

You mean they're not? :)

653 Simply Sarah  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:37:22am

re: #651 000G

No, I didn't.

OK, you didn't. This is what happens when I pay half attention.

654 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:37:48am

I want pineapple on my Ron Paul so I can stab away while watching the Eagles lose.

655 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:38:02am

re: #644 000G

Unlikely.

656 zora  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:40:45am

re: #79 freetoken

That's an interesting thought, especially given that a significant fraction of American "conservative" or "evangelical" Christians do indeed take the concept seriously.

i blame the left behind books.

657 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:40:52am

re: #645 makeitstop

No rapes or stabbings...yet.
/

I don't know...I think the link about the guy calling for solidarity with the jesusfreak WH shooter made a good effort at raping our sensibilities. Then again, when I think about how Michael Steele was defending the Perry ad about Obama calling Americans 'lazy' I have to think the guy was probably a conservative plant in the first place.

658 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:41:28am

re: #648 Charles

I agree with assessment is fair as of yesterday (I posted the same thing when I came here today). I think the new info might have arrived for reassessment. Above Gus posted a link with apparently new info on the guy's "beliefs". Apparently he is against the US taking other countries' oil, and that's left-wing stuff. Didn't check it out though. So, in the end, he probably is all over the place, and all this is overshadowed by his insanity.

659 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:41:48am

Per Right Wing Watch, Tony Perkins of the FRC is asking Christian Obama voters to repent. Here's repentage for ya Perkins, go fuck yourself you sleazy fuck.

660 Lidane  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:41:48am
661 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:42:26am

re: #656 zora

i blame the left behind books.

My problem with the left behind is that it leaves the right cheek unloved.

662 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:43:33am

re: #658 Sergey Romanov

I agree with this assessment is fair as of yesterday (I posted the same thing when I came here today). I think the new info might have arrived for reassessment. Above Gus posted a link with apparently new info on the guy's "beliefs". Apparently he is against the US taking other countries' oil, and that's left-wing stuff. Didn't check it out though. So, in the end, he probably is all over the place, and all this is overwhelmed by his insanity.

He's "all over the place" in a way that's totally consistent with right wing libertarian/religious ideology. The "no war for oil" stuff is not an indicator of left wing ideology; it's quite simple to find this same rhetoric among far right libertarians.

663 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:44:24am

Pakistani businessman says "coup" memo was dictated by envoy

A U.S.-based Pakistani businessman said on Friday Pakistan's ambassador to the United States had asked him in May to appeal to the Pentagon to help the civilian government ward off a coup by Pakistan's powerful military.

664 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:44:37am

re: #662 Charles

He's "all over the place" in a way that's totally consistent with right wing libertarian/religious ideology. The "no war for oil" stuff is not an indicator of left wing ideology; it's quite simple to find this same rhetoric among far right libertarians.

That's very true.

665 makeitstop  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:45:41am

re: #660 Lidane

Your Friday dose of comedy:

Bachmann: ‘I Haven’t Had A Gaffe’ (VIDEO)

The total lack of self-awareness is astounding.

666 The Left  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:46:57am

re: #660 Lidane

Your Friday dose of comedy:

Bachmann: ‘I Haven’t Had A Gaffe’ (VIDEO)

She probably doesn't know what the word gaffe means.

Sounds.....french. /

667 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:47:26am

Can anyone help me see if the referrer feature might show incoming from the OccupyLA web site? Not sure how to use that thing. Occupy is running the heck out of the video I made, and that has the LGF address in it.

668 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:48:21am

re: #666 iceweasel

I come waltzing in, and there you are with your little 666 thing going on.

666 on the Anti-Christ thread. Lucky you.

669 darthstar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:50:04am

re: #665 makeitstop

The total lack of self-awareness is astounding.

Speaking of zero self-awareness...

Mr. Schweizer answers the questions so many of us have asked. I addressed this in a speech in Iowa last Labor Day weekend. How do politicians who arrive in Washington, D.C. as men and women of modest means leave as millionaires? How do they miraculously accumulate wealth at a rate faster than the rest of us? How do politicians' stock portfolios outperform even the best hedge-fund managers'? I answered the question in that speech: Politicians derive power from the authority of their office and their access to our tax dollars, and they use that power to enrich and shield themselves.

Yes...Sarah Palin...

670 The Left  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:50:38am

re: #668 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I come waltzing in, and there you are with your little 666 thing going on.

666 on the Anti-Christ thread. Lucky you.

It's true. I am the antichrist!

671 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:51:17am

Feds investigating Illinois 'pump failure' as possible cyber attack

Such an attack would be noteworthy because, while cyber attacks on businesses are commonplace, attacks that penetrate industrial control systems and intentionally destroy equipment are virtually unknown in the United States.

According to Weiss, the report says water district workers noted "glitches" in the systems for about two months. On Nov. 8, a water district employee noticed problems with the industrial control systems, and a computer repair company checked logs and determined that the computer had been hacked.

Weiss said the report says the cyber attacker hacked into the water utility using passwords stolen from a control system vendor and that he had stolen other user names and passwords. Weiss said the Department of Homeland Security has an obligation to inform industry about the "water pump" attack so they can protect themselves from similar assaults.

672 Kragar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:52:01am

re: #666 iceweasel

She probably doesn't know what the word gaffe means.

Sounds...french. /

Thats the thing with the long legs and neck, right?

673 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:52:56am

re: #666 iceweasel

She probably doesn't know what the word gaffe means.

Sounds...french. /

That could be right. A gaffe is something you do, not have. (I'm not gonna watch the video, because I just watched the shooter's video, and I fear for my brain cells if I pile some Bachmann on top).

When I was in kindergarten, kids were standing around talking about who had been absent. I insisted I had not been absent, because I figured if I had, I would know what that word meant.

674 Kragar  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 9:53:50am

re: #670 iceweasel

It's true. I am the antichrist!

[Video]

675 zora  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:00:38am

re: #609 Killgore Trout

Heh, I just noticed that killing terrorists now gets downdings. The times they are a changing.

i gonna go out on a limb here and say that it is not killing terrorists that gets a downding. it's you.

676 RadicalModerate  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:16:19am

re: #671 Killgore Trout

Feds investigating Illinois 'pump failure' as possible cyber attack

They're honestly trying to frame this as a "Stuxnet" type of attack?

677 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:35:13am

re: #171 Cannadian Club Akbar

"What we're hearing about is teenagers utilizing tampons, soak them in vodka first before using them," Thomas said.

"It gets absorbed directly into the bloodstream. There's no barrier, there's no stomach acid to prevent it," Thomas said.

"I would expect it to absorb pretty quickly as well, because it's a very vascular structure," Quan told CBS 5.

"This is definitely not just girls," Thomas said. "Guys will also use it and they'll insert it into their rectums."

And that's not all.

"Using a beer bong rectally is the same concept as a vodka soaked tampon," Thomas said.

[Link: www.kpho.com...]

Get these kids some Tshirts found in #152.

Just ain't no way.

1. This is stupider than the 'rainbow party' thing.
2. Teenager boys are not inserting anything into their rectums with the knowledge of their peers. Uh-uh.
3. Teenagers are using vodka the way teenagers have always used vodka, by mixing it with sweet drinks and forcing it down. Luckily, this also gets you drunk.

NOW I will click the link.

678 vegimo  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:36:09am

re: #662 Charles

He's "all over the place" in a way that's totally consistent with right wing libertarian/religious ideology. The "no war for oil" stuff is not an indicator of left wing ideology; it's quite simple to find this same rhetoric among far right libertarians.

What I said in post #431 when I linked to the 20-minute video was that "You could say that he is right, left, libertarian, or whatever, but it would just be an attempt to categorize a confused stoner as a member of the "other side" in order to make "them" look bad."

I was not defending right-wing attempts to paint him as a left-wing-OWS-er. I was saying that any attempt to classify him as right, left, etc. would be futile. My opinion that he may have adopted ideas from many different ideologies is formulated by interpreting his own words, in context, over the course of that painful 20 minutes.

679 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:39:51am

re: #678 vegimo

Why are you calling him a stoner?

680 vegimo  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:50:00am

re: #679 Obdicut

Because even though he insists otherwise in that video I would guess that he does get stoned. Perhaps I should retract that as well since I probably shouldn't make that assumption.

681 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 10:51:09am

re: #680 vegimo

Yeah, if you're getting your dander up about people lumping him in with various groups, then lumping him in with a group without any proof seems a little silly.

682 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Nov 18, 2011 11:23:57am

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