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Cain: All of Those Women Are Lying

Unbelievable
Wingnuts • Views: 16,709

Herman Cain went on the David Letterman show last night in stonewalling mode, and said that all of the women who claim he sexually harassed them are lying. All of them.

During the interview Letterman says to Cain: “These statements are all false? All of these women are lying? They’re all lying?”

“Yes,” replies Cain. “They are.”

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232 comments

1 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 8:55:41am

So it's not even "A situation happened that was unfortunately misinterpreted", it's just straight up lying?

Isn't he still saying that he doesn't really know what some of the allegations are?

2 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 8:57:50am

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

3 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:00:45am

They are lying because they wanted it and only ended up groped. /

4 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:01:10am

paying a liar to shut up seems cowardly to me

5 MichaelJ  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:01:46am

When God himself has chosen you to run, all obstacles can be overcome. It's kind of a shame that God himself chose a total sociopath, but who knows the mysterious logic of the Heavens?

6 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:03:39am

re: #1 Obdicut

So it's not even "A situation happened that was unfortunately misinterpreted", it's just straight up lying?

Isn't he still saying that he doesn't really know what some of the allegations are?

He doesn't know what he didn't do, but he knows he didn't do it.

7 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:06:10am

All those women are probably readers, not leaders.

8 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:07:11am

Of COURSE they're all lying. Everyone knows sexual harassment doesn't exist.

///

9 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:08:01am

re: #4 albusteve

paying a liar to shut up seems cowardly to me

Yeah odd move of an innocent man. As I said, smoke and fire and all that jazz.

10 elizajane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:08:58am

It's a conspiracy! Brought to you by the same cabal of Russian communists (the regime never fell! It was all a plot!) who manoeuvred their man Obama into the White House so he could take down the American economy, turn it communist, and then give all its assets to his evil backers.

No, really. My bus driver told me all about it one evening this week. And if you can believe anything that crazy, you can believe that a whole lot of good-looking white women were recruited by some evil commie force to take down a good conservative black man.

11 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:10:28am

Obviously Cain didn't read the documentation during litigation of the sexual harassment claims. He was too busy leading.

12 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:11:06am

Herman Cain says that these women are lying, and Jerry Sandusky says that the victim will say it never happened (despite the fact that the victim is ready to testify), and I am sure that Gaddaffi would tell you how much his people loved him and I, a ninja pirate riding on a zombie unicorn, have brought this information to you.

He said, she said has a window of question. He said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said does not.

13 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:11:38am

The good folks at Funny or Die.
14 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:12:18am

“There will probably be others, not because I am aware of any, but because the machine to keep a businessman out of the White House is going to be relentless,” he said. “If they continue to come, I will continue to respond.”

That clankety-clank sound is coming from inside your pants!

15 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:14:30am

I'm justa love machine, and I won't work for nobody but you

16 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:16:35am

re: #14 jaunte

“There will probably be others, not because I am aware of any, but because the machine to keep a businessman out of the White House is going to be relentless,” he said. “If they continue to come, I will continue to respond.”

That clankety-clank sound is coming from inside your pants!

Did he really say that? Yeah the machine hates businessmen so much.

17 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:17:44am

This should play well at tonight's auto da fe in Iowa. He'll be most comfortable in the church setting, associate preacher and all.

18 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:20:07am

re: #14 jaunte

the machine to keep a businessman out of the White House

Because we didn't have a businessman as POTUS from 2000-2008. Really.

19 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:20:25am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

Ron Paul: "If you refuse, I'll haunt your prostate."

20 darthstar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:26:40am

And for every one of those women, there are thousands who are NOT lying when they say Cain never harassed them.
/

21 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:27:27am

re: #19 negativ

Ron Paul: "If you refuse, I'll haunt your prostate."

They succeeded in making him look more of a kook than he is.

22 darthstar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:31:18am

re: #21 HappyWarrior

They succeeded in making him look more of a kook than he is.

I think it was actual audio.

23 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:32:28am

re: #22 darthstar

I think it was actual audio.

Nah no mention of the federal reserve and freedom.

24 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:33:46am

I might could be persuaded that one woman was lying.

But more than one? No way.

There simply is no incentive for a woman to admit to being a position where they could be harassed. There is no incentive for any woman to report such activities and put herself in a position to be called a liar, or being called a self-absorbed vain idiot who misinterpreted the actions, or being accused of giving signals indicating she would be receptive, etc etc. No incentive whatsoever.

25 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:35:41am

I guess Herman Cain would support Sharia law in this instance? You know, where you need two women to counter the testimony of one man. Since these are separate incidents and there was only one woman at each, his word prevails.

26 Idle Drifter  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:36:02am

Just once I wish one of these creeps that try to take advantage of women would run into a Women's Judo Champion.

27 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:36:32am

re: #24 reine.de.tout

There simply is no incentive for a woman to admit to being a position where they could be harassed. There is no incentive for any woman to report such activities and put herself in a position to be called a liar, or being called a self-absorbed vain idiot who misinterpreted the actions, or being accused of giving signals indicating she would be receptive, etc etc. No incentive whatsoever.

Sure there is. Didn't you know that all women who make sexual harassment accusations are lying, vindictive feminazi whores who are just upset and bitter that a man paid them a compliment?

It's true. Limbaugh and the rest of the wingnuts say so.

///

28 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:36:52am

He wants the job, doesn't he?

29 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:37:28am

Shrugs. Herman Cain comes from corporate culture where the people in positions of responsibility are never, ever wrong. It is believed to be as physically impossible as an object falling up.

So of course he will deny it. To do otherwise would be admitting he did something wrong. Which he believes to be impossible.

I wonder how much pain that cognitive dissonance causes him?

30 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:37:58am

re: #24 reine.de.tout

I might could be persuaded that one woman was lying.

But more than one? No way.

There simply is no incentive for a woman to admit to being a position where they could be harassed. There is no incentive for any woman to report such activities and put herself in a position to be called a liar, or being called a self-absorbed vain idiot who misinterpreted the actions, or being accused of giving signals indicating she would be receptive, etc etc. No incentive whatsoever.

Absolutely. Beyond that is the fact that women who report harassment pay a high price for it every single time. No woman is ever patted on the back and praised for bringing forth a very serious problem. On the contrary, it is most likely a career ender that follows her throughout her professional life. It's clear even in this story. Cain didn't lose his job over it, the women did.

31 sagehen  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:38:22am

re: #18 Lidane

Because we didn't have a businessman as POTUS from 2000-2008. Really.

Weeeellll.... if bankrupting four businesses in a row counts as a "businessman". (two of them were oil companies. One of them, he sold all his stock the week before information was released how worthless it was... the results of the SEC investigation *assured* us it wasn't insider trading. And since the other stockholders [all of them friends of his dad, half of them Saudi] didn't complain, who's to say it wasn't totally legitimate?)

He didn't bankrupt the Rangers; he got them a great deal from the city on their snazzy new stadium, made a bunch of bunch of money for the team. Cost the city a bundle, but let's not mention that. And we also won't mention that he traded away Sammy Sosa.

32 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:38:33am

re: #29 Romantic Heretic

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if Cain didn't think he'd harassed anyone. He simply did what he could to show he was in a position of power

I don't think it involves any cognitive dissonance.

33 nines09  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:40:40am

Then in commercial break he asked Dave if this was being filmed. "I've got Secret Service guys here Dave."

34 darthstar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:40:51am

re: #32 calochortus

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if Cain didn't think he'd harassed anyone. He simply did what he could to show he was in a position of power

I don't think it involves any cognitive dissonance.

Ignorance of being an asshole is no excuse, though...so Cain isn't going to get a pass here.

35 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:41:33am

re: #31 sagehen

Heh. I never said he was a good businessman. Just that he was one, MBA and all.

Trust me when I say I'm most definitely NOT a Dubya fan, but the idea that there's a conspiracy to keep businessmen out of the White House is laughable.

36 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:42:28am

re: #34 darthstar

I'm not giving him a pass, I'm just sayin' he may be enjoying a perfectly consistent world-view.

37 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:42:32am

re: #32 calochortus

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if Cain didn't think he'd harassed anyone. He simply did what he could to show he was in a position of power

I don't think it involves any cognitive dissonance.

He offered them opportunities. If they weren't flattered by that, well, they're just bitter feminists.

38 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:43:12am

re: #37 wrenchwench

He offered them opportunities. If they weren't flattered by that, well, they're just bitter feminists.

"Bitter feminists" is redundant. //

39 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:45:11am

re: #35 Lidane

Heh. I never said he was a good businessman. Just that he was one, MBA and all.

Trust me when I say I'm most definitely NOT a Dubya fan, but the idea that there's a conspiracy to keep businessmen out of the White House is laughable.

There is no conspiracy of course. But DC does have the home court or insider advantage. Imagine of Obama had been a business man not a community organizer and short term Senator.

40 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:47:58am

The more I see of this guy the more I'm convinced that he has lived in such an insular bubble of "yes, my lord" serfs for so long that he really may be that clueless. He actually believes he's so special, so extraordinary, so above the hoi polloi that he is stunned that the women he so honored with his attention would turn on him this way. They must be lying! He simply cannot conceive that he's really a creepy dude that makes women's skin crawl.

41 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:48:08am

I think politicians have an advantage in running for any significant office since they already know how the system works. Businessmen often need to learn that politics requires a different style and skill set. I don't think Cain particularly wants to learn that skill set.

42 Summer Seale  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:50:33am

re: #41 calochortus

I think politicians have an advantage in running for any significant office since they already know how the system works. Businessmen often need to learn that politics requires a different style and skill set. I don't think Cain particularly wants to learn that skill set.

That's because he's not a "reader", he's a "leader"!

43 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:50:43am

re: #41 calochortus

I think politicians have an advantage in running for any significant office since they already know how the system works. Businessmen often need to learn that politics requires a different style and skill set. I don't think Cain particularly wants to learn that skill set.

He doesn't need to. His deluded followers are throwing money at him in spite of all his idiocy.

44 bluecheese  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:51:44am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

lol

45 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:53:43am

re: #43 Lidane

I wonder how long before those folks giving him money realize they've been had? Or maybe that will be too much cognitive dissonance for them.

46 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:55:45am

re: #39 Rightwingconspirator

There is no conspiracy of course. But DC does have the home court or insider advantage. Imagine of Obama had been a business man not a community organizer and short term Senator.

Well yeah we tend to elect people to the presidency who have been in government before. Cain's never been elected to any position and it shows more and more daily.

47 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:56:41am

re: #45 calochortus

I wonder how long before those folks giving him money realize they've been had? Or maybe that will be too much cognitive dissonance for them.

Last time I checked over at How Air about a week ago they'd already had enough of Cain. Pretty much everybody knows he's toast.

48 darthstar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:56:42am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

[Link: www.funnyordie.com...]
The good folks at Funny or Die.

I like the guy in the ad..."Uh, we're both dudes, so we pretty much just talked about how much we both like titties." (or something to that effect)

49 darthstar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:57:51am

re: #47 Killgore Trout

Last time I checked over at How Air about a week ago they'd already had enough of Cain. Pretty much everybody knows he's toast.

I'm guessing the people at Hot Air just discovered he was black. Before that, he was just "not Obama"...

50 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 9:59:31am

re: #48 darthstar

I like the guy in the ad..."Uh, we're both dudes, so we pretty much just talked about how much we both like titties." (or something to that effect)

Heh yes Have you seen the video with Mike Tyson as Cain?

51 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:00:59am

re: #49 darthstar

I'm guessing the people at Hot Air just discovered he was black. Before that, he was just "not Obama"...

The sex scandals don't seem to bother them much, they seem more motivated by Cain's gaffe's and stupid proposals (like 999). They know he's unelectable.

52 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:01:51am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

[Link: www.funnyordie.com...]
The good folks at Funny or Die.

That's comedy gold, there.

53 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:02:10am

re: #51 Killgore Trout

The sex scandals don't seem to bother them much, they seem more motivated by Cain's gaffe's and stupid proposals (like 999). They know he's unelectable.

Yeah the Republicans/conservatives I know think 9-9-9 is stupid. Haven't really asked them about his foreign policy gaffes though.

54 darthstar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:02:23am

re: #50 HappyWarrior

Heh yes Have you seen the video with Mike Tyson as Cain?

I like that one..."You want crazy? I'm crazy as a shit house rat!" Too bad it hasn't gone viral. I'd love to see it get some tv play.

55 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:02:50am

re: #30 allegro

Absolutely. Beyond that is the fact that women who report harassment pay a high price for it every single time. No woman is ever patted on the back and praised for bringing forth a very serious problem. On the contrary, it is most likely a career ender that follows her throughout her professional life. It's clear even in this story. Cain didn't lose his job over it, the women did.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

In almost every case I ever personally knew of, with one exception, even those cases proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the harassment occurred, it was the woman who was transferred to a new position or for whom a new job was found, etc. The saddest part? They all went along with it.

56 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:05:03am

re: #51 Killgore Trout

The GOP seems to have just flailed about going from candidate to candidate who was quickly found unacceptable. It's just a historically odd and inept crop. Arguably the worst crop ever. I start to suspect this is what it looks like when a party falls.

Maybe that's wishful thinking.

But then what would that look like if not like this???

57 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:05:18am

re: #54 darthstar

I like that one..."You want crazy? I'm crazy as a shit house rat!" Too bad it hasn't gone viral. I'd love to see it get some tv play.

I liked the retro computer fitted to think like Ronald Reagan that you have to insert jellybeans into the USB port. Mike's a funny guy. He's done a couple other videos with them and his appearance in the Hangover was one for their ages.

58 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:07:12am

re: #45 calochortus

I wonder how long before those folks giving him money realize they've been had? Or maybe that will be too much cognitive dissonance for them.

People supporting Cain or any other Tea Party candidate don't neccessarily do so because they want him specifically to win the nomination but because they want the eventual nomineee (i.e. Romney) to know what they want. A Tea Party candidate gives them the chance to focus and bundle their energy and give them a bull horn, which would be drowned out more if they had thrown their weight behind Romney early on.

59 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:08:06am

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Yeah the Republicans/conservatives I know think 9-9-9 is stupid. Haven't really asked them about his foreign policy gaffes though.

Cain is so stupid on foreign policy that he's pretty much a blank slate. Wingnuts don't seem very interested in foreign affairs much these days. They seem mostly interested in tax breaks for the rich and repealing healthcare reform. The only foreign policy requirements are support for Israel and tough talk on Iran.

60 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:08:57am

re: #58 000G

I can see Romney taking notes: "More simple-minded pseudo-solutions. Best if they rhyme."

61 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:09:48am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Cain is so stupid on foreign policy that he's pretty much a blank slate. Wingnuts don't seem very interested in foreign affairs much these days. They seem mostly interested in tax breaks for the rich and repealing healthcare reform. The only foreign policy requirements are support for Israel and tough talk on Iran.

Or when they do, it's platitudes about how Obama goes around "apologizing" for America. That incident in Abbottbad, funny way of apologizing. Agree with what you're saying on domestics.

62 sagehen  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:09:52am

re: #50 HappyWarrior

Heh yes Have you seen the video with Mike Tyson as Cain?

Mike Tyson's turned out to have quite a gift for comedy -- this movie spoof he did on Jimmy Kimmel had me in tears:

63 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:10:04am

re: #49 darthstar

I'm guessing the people at Hot Air just discovered he was black. Before that, he was just "not Obama"...

The folks at Freeper-stan are starting to get sick of him, but there is enough pushback from the Cain Train to keep him relevant over there:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

64 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:10:40am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Wars started by Republicans = good
Wars started by Democrats = bad

With the possible exception of Santorum, who has been too much entrenched in the neoconservative circles, I guess.

65 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:11:18am

re: #56 Rightwingconspirator

The GOP seems to have just flailed about going from candidate to candidate who was quickly found unacceptable. It's just a historically odd and inept crop. Arguably the worst crop ever. I start to suspect this is what it looks like when a party falls.

Maybe that's wishful thinking.

But then what would that look like if not like this???

If the fail happened it was quite a while ago. I don't think a whole lot has changed from the last election. They'll end up with a lame moderate nominee (McCain/ Mitt) that nobody really likes. Most of them will hold their noses and vote for him anyways despite all the talk of staying home or 3rd party runs.

66 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:12:33am

re: #38 calochortus

"Bitter feminists" is redundant. //

If they weren't lesbians, they'd have been all over that dark meat!

67 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:12:35am

re: #58 000G

People supporting Cain or any other Tea Party candidate don't neccessarily do so because they want him specifically to win but because they want the eventual nomineee (i.e. Romney) to know what they want. A Tea Party candidate gives them the chance to focus and bundle their energy, which would be drowned out more if they had thrown their weight behind Romney early on.

I don't know about that. I really believe that there is a deep uneasiness about Romney amongst the nutroots. If you think many of them were ambivalent about McCain (Too Liberal!), imagine how they feel about a member of a religious cult like the LDS.

Booga booga! Scary!

68 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:13:27am

re: #63 Lidane

The folks at Freeper-stan are starting to get sick of him, but there is enough pushback from the Cain Train to keep him relevant over there:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

Check this out:

The tormentors, journalists, lawyers and an assortment of ladies who appear to have been around the block a few times, have so far failed to destroy him and thus his candidacy. They still have to come up with lower-mileage ladies to make the accusations stick with the Republican base.

Lower mileage ladies? What does this even mean? That if he'd been accused of harrassing younger women the base would believe it?

just another day in the world of conservative double think: "She can't have been harrassed because she's a whore/unfuckable."

69 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:14:25am

re: #67 austin_blue

I don't know about that. I really believe that there is a deep uneasiness about Romney amongst nutroots. If you think many of them were ambivalent about McCain (Too Liberal!), imagine how they feel about a member of a religious cult like the LDS.

Booga booga! Scary!

How can the Tea Party support the guy who instituted the socialist health care scheme which was designed by Marxists to enslave us and destroy America?

70 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:14:40am

re: #62 sagehen

Mike Tyson's turned out to have quite a gift for comedy -- this movie spoof he did on Jimmy Kimmel had me in tears:

[Video]

Sir Michael Tyson I'm happy for him really. I saw the boxing documentary about him a couple years back and was impressed with him.Poor guy lost his daughter in a tragic accident too.

71 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:14:40am

re: #60 jaunte

"Bonus if copied from video games, cartoon shows, or children's movies".

Leader not Reader
999
"a poet once said"

72 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:14:50am

More like, the black bat to beat Obama and Black Democraric voters, which is to say, most Black voters.

It's part of the function of Black conservatives.

re: #49 darthstar

I'm guessing the people at Hot Air just discovered he was black. Before that, he was just "not Obama"...

73 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:15:02am

re: #68 iceweasel

Also known as the 'cut loaf' argument.

74 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:15:28am

re: #58 000G

People supporting Cain or any other Tea Party candidate don't neccessarily do so because they want him specifically to win the nomination but because they want the eventual nomineee (i.e. Romney) to know what they want. A Tea Party candidate gives them the chance to focus and bundle their energy and give them a bull horn, which would be drowned out more if they had thrown their weight behind Romney early on.

That could be it. I do recall reading a few comments on wingnut sites admitting that they'd been had when Sarah Palin didn't run. There are some True Believers out there.

75 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:16:15am

re: #67 austin_blue

I know there is an uneasiness about Romney. But I don't think that there has been or is now any more doubt about Romney becoming the nominee in the wignut circles than there is actual hope that Ron Paul will become President.

76 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:16:22am

re: #69 aagcobb

How can the Tea Party support the guy who instituted the socialist health care scheme which was designed by Marxists to enslave us and destroy America?

Well, and then there's *that* little turd in the punchbowl...agreed.

77 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:17:39am

re: #67 austin_blue

So what, he's not-Obama.

78 darthstar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:17:54am
79 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:18:03am

re: #74 calochortus

That could be it. I do recall reading a few comments on wingnut sites admitting that they'd been had when Sarah Palin didn't run. There are some True Believers out there.

Palin supporters were the loyalist wingnuts from 07/08. I don't doubt that a lot of them are in denial about a great many things.

80 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:18:47am

re: #78 darthstar

The Answer is C

What is it, then?

81 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:19:40am

re: #80 Sergey Romanov

What is it, then?

A big steaming turd? (If I sound bitter, its becaused I'm forced to use IE at work.)

82 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:19:57am

re: #68 iceweasel

Check this out:

Lower mileage ladies? What does this even mean? That if he'd been accused of harrassing younger women the base would believe it?

just another day in the world of conservative double think: "She can't be harrassed because she's a whore/unfuckable."

If she's not a virgin, then she's a slut and then it doesn't count, apparently.

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:20:18am

re: #81 aagcobb

A big steaming turd? (If I sound bitter, its becaused I'm forced to use IE at work.)

Dunno, the latest version is not bad.

84 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:21:48am

Must go to grocery store. BBL, I hope. Life seems to have gotten way too busy lately...

85 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:22:39am

For the general election, is Romney going to try to appeal to the wingnut base and fire up their enthusiasm to actually show up, or is he more likely to try to appeal to centrists and independents?

86 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:23:02am

re: #75 000G

I know there is an uneasiness about Romney. But I don't think that there has been or is now any more doubt about Romney becoming the nominee in the wignut circles than there is actual hope that Ron Paul will become President.

But this is the party that nominated the unelectable Barry Goldwater. Romney's numbers don't improve. Every time one of his opponents implode, that support goes to someone other than Romney. Sooner or later, most of these turkeys are going to run out of money and withdraw. If someone like Gingrich is still standing, all the anti-Romney people could rally to him.

87 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:25:14am

re: #86 aagcobb

But this is the party that nominated the unelectable Barry Goldwater. Romney's numbers don't improve. Every time one of his opponents implode, that support goes to someone other than Romney. Sooner or later, most of these turkeys are going to run out of money and withdraw. If someone like Gingrich is still standing, all the anti-Romney people could rally to him.

the convention's gonna be interesting.

88 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:25:20am

re: #85 000G

For the general election, is Romney going to try to appeal to the wingnut base and fire up their enthusiasm to actually show up, or is he more likely to try to appeal to centrists and independents?

They aren't going to be enthusiastic about Romney. They'll vote for him to get rid of Obama.

89 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:26:10am

re: #88 aagcobb

They aren't going to be enthusiastic about Romney. They'll vote for him to get rid of Obama.

Is "anti-Obama" not enough of a rallying cry?

90 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:27:03am

re: #86 aagcobb

I hadn't thought of the last-man-standing scenario due to funds drying up. That's true, good point.

91 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:27:08am

re: #89 000G

Is "anti-Obama" not enough of a rallying cry?

I don't know. They hate Obama yes but they desperately want a "real conservative" too. Many of them feel since Reagan they haven't gotten that.

92 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:28:36am

Race would have been interesting even more if Barbour had thrown his hat in. He's a former RNC chairman so you know he'd be good at raising money but as a national candidate, would he be disciplined or gaffe prone like Perry?

93 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:29:52am

I'm looking forward to the general election to see how the Republican candidate tries to walk back the crazy. These guys have themselves in quite a corner trying to get the nomination. How many times are we going to hear "I never said that" right after seeing the video in which he did, indeed, say that? Should be quite the comedy.

94 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:30:56am

re: #93 allegro

I'm looking forward to the general election to see how the Republican candidate tries to walk back the crazy. These guys have themselves in quite a corner trying to get the nomination. How many times are we going to hear "I never said that" right after seeing the video in which he did, indeed, say that? Should be quite the comedy.

Opposition research for DNC must be having a field day.

95 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:31:40am

Way the hell off topic, but two things about Libya.

First, Saif al-Islam al-Qaddafi has been captured. He was wanted by the ICC for War Crimes. This only leaves Abdullah Senussi on the run.

Second, it appears the Misrata, wants way more power in Libya. They may have be a bit puffed up, but I think something good be worked out.

I would say that, in order to give Misrata something and also make them feel more powerful, a South African capitol solution should be set up.

In South Africa, each branch of the Government has a different Capitol. Pretoria has the Executive Branch (Presidency), Bloemfontein has the Judicial Branch, and Cape Town has the Legislative Branch.

I suggest the same happen in Libya. Maybe Tripoli with the Legislative, Misrata with the Executive, and Benghazi with the Judicial.

96 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:33:38am

re: #25 calochortus

Under Sharia law, there would not have been any women at his place of work, and the whole issue would be moot...

97 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:37:38am

re: #25 calochortus

In Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, it's actually worse. 4 Women.

re: #96 ralphieboy

You would be surprised at the Debauchery among the Saudi Royals. Summarized singular Wikileak writeup on Wikipedia.

Nightlife

In Jeddah, despite the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV) — the religious police of Saudi Arabia, there is an ongoing underground nightlife, which includes "the full range of worldly temptations and vices" i.e., "alcohol, drugs, sex " and "working girls" (prostitutes). Even though these parties are in complete violation of CPVPV's laws, the mutaween of CPVPV are afraid to raid these parties, since these parties are hosted by the young princes of al-Saud, the monarchic ruling house of Saudi Arabia.

Exclusive parties

The Economist summarised cable descriptions of "exclusive parties" in Saudi Arabia, stating, "An American official in Saudi Arabia describes un-Islamic mores at a clandestine Halloween party, hosted by a royal prince. Alcohol and prostitutes abounded at the event, attended by 150-plus Saudis. The host's status kept the fearsome religious police away. Such parties, the writer concluded, were increasingly typical in the kingdom."

98 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:45:28am

Egypt: 'Scores hurt' in Cairo clashes with police

More than 210 people have been injured in clashes with police in Cairo's Tahrir Square, state TV reports.

Police fired rubber bullets and tear gas to prevent protesters staging a long-term sit-in following a huge demonstration on Friday against the military leadership.

99 Mark Winter  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:47:24am

Reminds me of an old German joke:

A driver on the autobahn listens to a local radio station which suddenly issues a dire warning:

Attention all drivers! On the autobahn between Munich and Nuremberg a driver is headed the wrong way. Stay on the far right side and don't overtake!

One? shouts the driver. Not one! Hundreds!!!

100 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:48:00am

re: #98 jaunte

Since I heard about SCAF making deals with everybody, I knew the Revolution had failed.

101 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:48:33am

Joshua Holland: "Caught on Camera: 10 Shockingly Violent Police Assaults on Occupy Protesters", AlterNet
"Probably 97 percent of police act professionally toward protesters. But the other 3 percent are armed and dangerous, and know that they're unlikely to be held accountable."

102 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:48:58am

re: #93 allegro

I'm looking forward to the general election to see how the Republican candidate tries to walk back the crazy. These guys have themselves in quite a corner trying to get the nomination. How many times are we going to hear "I never said that" right after seeing the video in which he did, indeed, say that? Should be quite the comedy.

It's been my feeling for quite a while that any candidate that can win the GOP nomination will be unable to win the election and any candidate that can win the election can't win the nomination.

There just aren't enough wing nuts out there to win the election. Thank Christ.

103 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:49:27am
“I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested… As I’m standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, ‘I need to get in. My daughter’s there. I want to know if she’s OK.’ And he said, ‘Move on, lady.’ And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head,” says Smith. “I walk over, and I say, ‘Look, cuff her if she’s done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ And he said, ‘Lady, do you want to get arrested?’ And I said, ‘Do you see my hat? I’m here as a legal observer.’ He said, ‘You want to get arrested?’ And he pushed me up against the wall.”

Retired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, working as a legal observer after the raids on Zucotti Park this Tuesday, via Paramilitary Policing of Occupy Wall Street: Excessive Use of Force amidst the New Military Urbanism, Democracy Now!

104 bratwurst  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:49:45am

re: #87 HappyWarrior

the convention's gonna be interesting.

Actually the system is designed to make 99% certain the conventions are not interesting at all!

105 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:50:34am

Big Potato Moth!!

106 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:55:31am

re: #97 ProLifeLiberal

In Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, it's actually worse. 4 Women.

re: #96 ralphieboy

You would be surprised at the Debauchery among the Saudi Royals. Summarized singular Wikileak writeup on Wikipedia.

Read an article a few years ago, not on line that I can find, about an 'enabler', I recall that was the term, for the Saudi royal household. He got them alcohol, drugs, women etc. He made a good living, very good living at it.

Among other things in the article was the fact that there was a doctor in Spain whose career was built around restoring the hymens of Saudi princesses. $50 grand a pop, as it were. This was 30 years ago so it probably costs a lot more now.

Nice work if you can get it.

107 sagehen  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:55:42am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

I don't know. They hate Obama yes but they desperately want a "real conservative" too. Many of them feel since Reagan they haven't gotten that.

If they didn't keep changing their definition of what's "a real conservative", they've had nothing *but* real conservatives.

By the definition they're using now, Reagan was a squishy RINO. Amnesty for illegal immigrants, cutting and running from Lebanon, raised taxes 11 times (including what was then the largest peacetime tax hike ever), negotiating with the Evil Empire, I could go on.

108 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:56:10am

re: #101 000G

Joshua Holland: "Caught on Camera: 10 Shockingly Violent Police Assaults on Occupy Protesters", AlterNet
"Probably 97 percent of police act professionally toward protesters. But the other 3 percent are armed and dangerous, and know that they're unlikely to be held accountable."

If the protesters were peaceful those images would be much more powerful. The bloody guy in Zuccotti was throwing batteries at police and his arrest was a 5 minute wrestling match.
Portland police are trying to release their own footage of incidents (like the chick getting a mouthful of pepper spray) to help with the context. I have mixed feelings about the police having their own public relations departments but they're trying.

109 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:56:33am

re: #106 Romantic Heretic

The Saudi Royal Family are some of the Biggest Hypocrites anywhere. Ted Haggard-scale hypocrites.

110 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 10:58:03am

re: #103 000G

Retired New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith, working as a legal observer after the raids on Zucotti Park this Tuesday, via Paramilitary Policing of Occupy Wall Street: Excessive Use of Force amidst the New Military Urbanism, Democracy Now!

Then there is this. I saw this brave action last night and was literally nauseated by it. No excuse. Just pure torture of students sitting on the ground peacefully getting doused with pepper spray by a cop who appeared to be enjoying it.

111 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:00:39am

re: #107 sagehen

If they didn't keep changing their definition of what's "a real conservative", they've had nothing *but* real conservatives.

By the definition they're using now, Reagan was a squishy RINO. Amnesty for illegal immigrants, cutting and running from Lebanon, raised taxes 11 times (including what was then the largest peacetime tax hike ever), negotiating with the Evil Empire, I could go on.

Well it's not Reagan the reality they love, it's Reagan the abstract.

112 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:02:02am

re: #110 allegro

Rick Santorum:

“...suffering is part of life and it’s not a bad thing,
it is an essential thing in life.”

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

113 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:05:49am
suffering is part of life and it’s not a bad thing, it is an essential thing in life.

That's true. But that doesn't mean we have to contribute to the suffering of the world, you heartless asshole!

114 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:06:24am

re: #110 allegro

Then there is this. I saw this brave action last night and was literally nauseated by it. No excuse. Just pure torture of students sitting on the ground peacefully getting doused with pepper spray by a cop who appeared to be enjoying it.

See [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

115 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:08:43am

re: #113 Romantic Heretic

Both of his parents were employed by the VA when he was a kid, so naturally he's opposed to government programs.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:08:58am

re: #64 000G

Wars started by Republicans = good
Wars started by Democrats = bad

With the possible exception of Santorum, who has been too much entrenched in the neoconservative circles, I guess.

Wars started by Republicans when being fought by Democrats = sometimes dubious

117 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:09:14am

re: #112 jaunte

Rick Santorum:

"I mean look at me, I'm suffering too because I'm never going to be president just like 99.99% of you."

118 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:09:45am

I just watched the complete video of Cain's appearance on Letterman. Here's an excerpt, from 20:15 to 20:28:

Dave: "Have you ever been in a situation where you acted in a way that later you thought, 'oh my god, I should not have done that', with regard to a woman?"

Herman: "Yes, because it depends upon how certain women will interpret things like a compliment. ..."

119 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:09:57am

Hm:

Image: Occupy_HOPE.gif

L.A. street artist Shepard Fairey has released a second original design for the Occupy Wall Street movement -- and this time, instead of playing it safe with a wistful scene out of an Angela Davis documentary, he's given his own (in)famous HOPE poster from Obama's first election campaign a rebellious makeover.

It uses all the same colors and graphic-design aesthetics as the original. Only difference is, Fairey has replaced President Obama's heavenward gaze with a "V for Vendetta" Guy Fawkes mask -- one of the key props used by Occupy Wall Street protesters.

Across the bottom, the poster reads...

... "Mister President, we HOPE you're on our side" (little passive-aggressive there?), and it's stamped with a "We are the 99 percent" logo.

For one last dose of irony, Fairey recycles the same red-white-and-blue "O" he once used as Obama's first initial into a ring around the "99 percent" slogan.

[Link: blogs.laweekly.com...]

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:11:12am

re: #68 iceweasel

Check this out:

Lower mileage ladies? What does this even mean? That if he'd been accused of harrassing younger women the base would believe it?

just another day in the world of conservative double think: "She can't have been harrassed because she's a whore/unfuckable."

Basically. The base would believe it if the woman were very young, seemed very fragile, and were believably a virgin.

I do not think this is true, actually, I think that the base would label such a woman a gold-digging nutbar sleazoid as fast as anyone else, although they might think that someone else had put her up to it.

121 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:11:40am

re: #119 000G

WHAT A HORRIBLE TASTE HE HAS! TAZE HIM!

///

srsly this is just annoying

122 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:11:56am

re: #118 wrenchwench

I just watched the complete video of Cain's appearance on Letterman. Here's an excerpt, from 20:15 to 20:28:

Dave: "Have you ever been in a situation where you acted in a way that later you thought, 'oh my god, I should not have done that', with regard to a woman?"

Herman: "Yes, because it depends upon how certain women will interpret things like a compliment. ..."

Typical of him, "I was just giving her a compliment, some women can't take a compliment like I want to motorboat you."

123 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:12:08am

re: #118 wrenchwench

I just watched the complete video of Cain's appearance on Letterman. Here's an excerpt, from 20:15 to 20:28:

Dave: "Have you ever been in a situation where you acted in a way that later you thought, 'oh my god, I should not have done that', with regard to a woman?"

Herman: "Yes, because it depends upon how certain women will interpret things like a compliment. ..."

For example: Grabbing boobies = compliment!!
//

124 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:12:34am

re: #121 Sergey Romanov

WHAT A HORRIBLE TASTE HE HAS! TAZE HIM!

///

srsly this is just annoying

What, the mustache?

PS:

Shoe maker Kenneth Cole to launch pro-OWS ad campaign: [Link: twitpic.com...]

125 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:14:02am

re: #124 000G

The mask. It's stupid-looking.

126 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:14:53am

re: #119 000G

Hm:

Image: Occupy_HOPE.gif

[Link: blogs.laweekly.com...]

Yeah, I'm not surprised. It might catch on, might not. I don't expect to see much objection from OWS supporters, i don't think many are going to object too much.

127 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:15:00am

haven't been reading the threads - have you guys seen this yet?

Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street
By Jonathan Larsen and Ken Olshansky, MSNBC TV

A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo obtained by the MSNBC program “Up w/ Chris Hayes.”

The proposal was written on the letterhead of the lobbying firm Clark Lytle Geduldig & Cranford and addressed to one of CLGC’s clients, the American Bankers Association.

CLGC’s memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct “opposition research” on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct “negative narratives” about the protests and allied politicians. The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:15:17am

re: #124 000G

Shoe maker Kenneth Cole to launch pro-OWS ad campaign: [Link: twitpic.com...]

Is this the death of the #occupy? Will it take the place to the right hand of Che?

/

129 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:16:06am

re: #125 Sergey Romanov

The mask. It's stupid-looking.

Why does OWS want to install a Catholic monarchy??
//

130 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:16:12am

Driving home last night, noticed the Lutheran church on the corner had changed its sign:
"Occupy a church seat. Make a change."

131 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:16:12am

Check me on this, but looking at Citizenlink.com I see that tonight's "Come to Jesus" debate is on unusually early. Looks like 5PM (1700 hrs) Eastern time. That's early to start drinking here in CST.

132 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:16:53am

I don't know why Guy Fawkes is an anarchist symbol. The guy was a diehard Catholic royalist. I mean at least Che was a leftist. Not that I admire either.

133 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:17:14am

Frankly, they would be better off with a 4chan troll face there.

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:17:58am

re: #132 HappyWarrior

I don't know why Guy Fawkes is an anarchist symbol. The guy was a diehard Catholic royalist. I mean at least Che was a leftist. Not that I admire either.

It's not Guy Fawkes. It's V. (I know that V used GF mask.)

135 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:18:25am

re: #132 HappyWarrior

It's the movies. They turned the Spartans into heroes of western civilization, too.

136 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:19:05am

re: #132 HappyWarrior

I don't know why Guy Fawkes is an anarchist symbol. The guy was a diehard Catholic royalist. I mean at least Che was a leftist. Not that I admire either.

Because those who don't know history are doomed to....something.

137 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:19:16am

re: #135 jaunte

It's the movies. They turned the Spartans into heroes of western civilization, too.

Should I watch that movie, BTW? Or is it horrible?

138 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:19:52am

re: #136 rwdflynavy

Because those who don't know history are doomed to...something.

...to repeat eighth grade.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:19:57am

re: #95 ProLifeLiberal

Way the hell off topic, but two things about Libya.

First, Saif al-Islam al-Qaddafi has been captured. He was wanted by the ICC for War Crimes. This only leaves Abdullah Senussi on the run.

Second, it appears the Misrata, wants way more power in Libya. They may have be a bit puffed up, but I think something good be worked out.

I would say that, in order to give Misrata something and also make them feel more powerful, a South African capitol solution should be set up.

In South Africa, each branch of the Government has a different Capitol. Pretoria has the Executive Branch (Presidency), Bloemfontein has the Judicial Branch, and Cape Town has the Legislative Branch.

I suggest the same happen in Libya. Maybe Tripoli with the Legislative, Misrata with the Executive, and Benghazi with the Judicial.

I don't know jack about Libyan internal politics, but anything that spreads the sugar around, and makes various groups feel that they're being given something is good sense.

140 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:20:12am

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

It's not Guy Fawkes. It's V. (I know that V used GF mask.)

Err yeah I know it's from the movie but Fawkes is still an icon among anarchist groups.

141 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:20:27am

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

It's a cartoon, done with live actors and CGI. It was even unintentionally funny in parts.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:20:40am

re: #96 ralphieboy

Under Sharia law, there would not have been any women at his place of work, and the whole issue would be moot...

Women work in mixed settings in Iran, under some restrictions, obviously.

Less urban areas, less likely.

143 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:20:48am

Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street

A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo obtained by the MSNBC program “Up w/ Chris Hayes.”

The proposal was written on the letterhead of the lobbying firm Clark Lytle Geduldig & Cranford and addressed to one of CLGC’s clients, the American Bankers Association.

CLGC’s memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct “opposition research” on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct “negative narratives” about the protests and allied politicians. The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:21:00am

re: #140 HappyWarrior

I thought the character wears a Guy Fawkes mask.

Yes. Re-read my comment that you quoted.

145 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:21:21am

re: #136 rwdflynavy

Because those who don't know history are doomed to...

...forget colloquialisms.

146 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:21:54am

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

Yes. Re-read my comment that you quoted.

Yeah just did. Sorry about that.

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:22:07am

re: #146 HappyWarrior

:)

148 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:22:15am

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

Should I watch that movie, BTW? Or is it horrible?

I thought it was pretty awful.

149 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:23:10am

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street

"CLGC’s memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct “opposition research” on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct “negative narratives” about the protests and allied politicians.'


Hell, they can get that for free...some places...

150 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:23:18am

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

See it for the giant gay jewelry-encrusted Persians.

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:23:38am

Has anyone seen Attack the Block? Pretty fun flick, though I didn't like that they made gang members into heroes.

152 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:24:02am

re: #125 Sergey Romanov

The mask. It's stupid-looking.

Concise aesthetic critique.

Other bits and pieces:

Photo of the day: police drag #OWS protester by her hair at #N17

Video from The Guardian:
"Protester and three-tour American veteran Kayvan Sabehgi was beaten by Oakland police during the Occupy protest's general strike on 2 November. Sabehgi, who was 'completely peaceful', according to witnesses, was left with a lacerated spleen."

If only those hippies had had stayed home, read less Marx and disavowed their raping and stabbing!

153 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:24:26am

I need to get that shirt the Onion sells of Che Guavara wearing a Che shirt.

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:25:01am

re: #152 000G

That mask is so awful, Mongo-level critique will do. :P

155 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:25:03am

@arabist

Just heard felool on State TV say, "In the West they suppress protests, so why can't we do it here?" #OWS #tahrir

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:25:13am

re: #124 000G

What, the mustache?

PS:

Shoe maker Kenneth Cole to launch pro-OWS ad campaign: [Link: twitpic.com...]

Well, the first good news about that is that the ad did not feature Guy Fawkes wearing a pair of Kenneth Coles.

157 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:25:16am

re: #151 Sergey Romanov

Has anyone seen Attack the Block? Pretty fun flick, though I didn't like they made gang members into heroes.

Speaking of movies about gangs and Persians, "The Warriors" was from The Anabasis.

158 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:26:42am

[Link: store.theonion.com...]
I can see some idiot not getting the joke.

159 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:27:11am

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

Should I watch that movie, BTW? Or is it horrible?

It's an okay watch. Not a must-see.

160 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:27:13am

re: #155 jaunte

That's why I don't care for the "police state" rhetoric from American protesters.

161 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:27:15am

re: #153 HappyWarrior

I need to get that shirt the Onion sells of Che Guavara wearing a Che shirt.

I saw one with Che as a skull and it says: "Che's dead, get over it!"

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:27:56am

re: #155 jaunte

@arabist

BTW, Putin condemned the "use of unnecessary force" in dispersing OWS. Not kidding. Every mistake you guys make is echoed in the world. Sorry, but you have to take that into account too.

163 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:28:37am

re: #150 jaunte

See it for the giant gay jewelry-encrusted Persians.

who knew that a right wing pro iraq war movie would turn out to be the gayist thing in american cinema in decades?

164 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:28:51am

re: #161 rwdflynavy

I saw one with Che as a skull and it says: "Che's dead, get over it!"

I like that but I like this more because it pokes fun at making a Marxist into a commercial venue. It's my sense of humor.

165 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:29:16am

re: #155 jaunte

@arabist

Arabist came off as an Anti-zionist, to me. Would take him much more serious if he didn't.

166 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:30:15am

re: #165 000G

I'm sure there's a lot of that in Egypt.

167 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:30:24am

re: #161 rwdflynavy

I saw one with Che as a skull and it says: "Che's dead, get over it!"

I remember seeing it on a site called "Che lives!"

OH THE IRONY.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:30:46am

re: #165 000G

Who is he?

169 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:31:13am

re: #155 jaunte

@arabist

Well, we sponsor them until we find them inconvenient (i.e. Libya).

170 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:33:26am

[Link: www.rightwingwatch.org...]
So, Louie "batshit" Gohmert gave Prime Minister Netanyahu an end times book by a nutjob as a gift. Uh wise move, Louie.

171 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:34:09am

re: #168 Sergey Romanov

Who is he?

One of the original Revolutionist bloggers from Egypt.

[Link: arabist.net...]
[Link: twitter.com...]

172 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:34:47am

re: #160 Killgore Trout

That's why I don't care for the "police state" rhetoric from American protesters.

Yeah. Because such a thing could never be possible:

Image: J3AE5.jpg

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:36:22am

re: #171 000G

Thanks. The moniker made me think he might be some scholar or such.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:37:27am

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

Should I watch that movie, BTW? Or is it horrible?

300 (that's what we're on, right?) is a mixed bag. If you like heavily stylized CGI-based comic book adaptation movies with lots of muscle and gore, you may enjoy it.

It's ahistorical, which I mind less if it's something like 'The Three Musketeers', and you can sort of see it as a quasi-historical fantasy based on Thermopylae and the events leading up to it.

It's been heavily criticized for presenting a very inaccurate portrayal of not only the battle but also Spartan society. People tend to point to it as being whitewashed, but it's also skewed to make the Spartans more accessible to American men.

There was also, and I don't know if this was part of the original, a HEAVY overlay of 'good free Americans westerners fight evil totalitarian Muslims Persians, which I think had much to to with when it came out.

I find the Spartans interesting, and don't care for comic-book adaptations, so I thought it was dreck. My husband liked it, from an artistic angle.

He says, "See it, but be aware it's based on a comic book, not history."

I say, "I coulda skipped it."

175 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:38:44am

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. Will probably skip.

176 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:39:40am

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

300 (that's what we're on, right?) is a mixed bag. If you like heavily stylized CGI-based comic book adaptation movies with lots of muscle and gore, you may enjoy it.

It's ahistorical, which I mind less if it's something like 'The Three Musketeers', and you can sort of see it as a quasi-historical fantasy based on Thermopylae and the events leading up to it.

It's been heavily criticized for presenting a very inaccurate portrayal of not only the battle but also Spartan society. People tend to point to it as being whitewashed, but it's also skewed to make the Spartans more accessible to American men.

There was also, and I don't know if this was part of the original, a HEAVY overlay of 'good free Americans westerners fight evil totalitarian Muslims Persians, which I think had much to to with when it came out.

I find the Spartans interesting, and don't care for comic-book adaptations, so I thought it was dreck. My husband liked it, from an artistic angle.

He says, "See it, but be aware it's based on a comic book, not history."

I say, "I coulda skipped it."

I recommend Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield as a better fictional account of the battle.

177 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:39:57am

re: #172 Lidane

Yeah. Because such a thing could never be possible:

Image: J3AE5.jpg

In fairness, those were, I believe, campus police, probably on the first power trip they've ever had the opportunity to experience. I'm not condoning the (at best) questionable tactics some actual police depts. have used against Occupy, but I don't think we're in danger of being taken over by these fat, pathetic rent-a-cops.

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:40:42am

re: #153 HappyWarrior

I need to get that shirt the Onion sells of Che Guavara wearing a Che shirt.

But, as Rodan would point out, you wouldn't DARE wear it in Miami.

179 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:40:53am

I liked the South Park parody of 300. The movie itself was ok. Not awesome but I'm a person who values dialogue and acting over action too.

180 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:41:04am

re: #172 Lidane

Yeah. Because such a thing could never be possible:

Image: J3AE5.jpg

That's just porn for psychopaths.

181 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:42:05am

re: #175 Sergey Romanov

Thanks. Will probably skip.

You won't miss anything. 300 was pretty much a frame-by-frame recreation of the graphic novel it's based on, but that's about it. If you're looking for historical accuracy, perspective, or anything other than a CGI showcase that has a bunch of men who clearly spent a lot of time in the gym, then 300 isn't for you.

182 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:43:22am

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

But, as Rodan would point out, you wouldn't DARE wear it in Miami.

Well, I've only been to Miami once and that was years ago but yeah would probably be safe not to do that. I have worn Pittsburgh sports teams gear in Maryland before. That got some shouts. My kid brother wanted to yell back "shut up" but I didn't want a confrontation.

183 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:43:28am

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

IIRC Frank Miller admitted that 300 was written as it would have been told by the soldier announcing it to the other Spartans, so the "historical" bit is the fact that the soldier really would have embellished it for propaganda.

184 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:43:29am

re: #177 Atlas Fails

In fairness, those were, I believe, campus police, probably on the first power trip they've ever had the opportunity to experience. I'm not condoning the (at best) questionable tactics some actual police depts. have used against Occupy, but I don't think we're in danger of being taken over by these fat, pathetic rent-a-cops.

Don't care. That happened on the UC Davis quad, which is an open area that people can easily move around in. There was NO REASON to pepper spray anyone. At all.

Of course, since those kids were taking part in an Occupy protest, I'm sure some folks think they deserved it.

185 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:44:08am

re: #172 Lidane

Yeah. Because such a thing could never be possible:

Image: J3AE5.jpg

Sho-in for the 2011 "Bull Connor" award.

187 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:45:55am

re: #172 Lidane

Yeah. Because such a thing could never be possible:

Image: J3AE5.jpg

Free speech and freedom to protest are not absolute. There are rules and laws, commandeering public or private property for any reason (including protests) has certain laws and restriction. As far aas I can tell UC Davis police are not a government agency, I think they're employed by the university.
Sorry, but America is not a police state. It's simply an absurd claim.

188 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:46:37am

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Ah. So the kids deserved to be pepper sprayed then. Thanks for clearing that up.

189 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:47:18am

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Free speech and freedom to protest are not absolute. There are rules and laws, commandeering public or private property for any reason (including protests) has certain laws and restriction. As far aas I can tell UC Davis police are not a government agency, I think they're employed by the university.
Sorry, but America is not a police state. It's simply an absurd claim.

Neither was Alabama in the 60s, but it was close enough.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:47:39am

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

I also couldn't agree more with David Brin's complaint that citizen soldiers with day jobs from other cities were treated with undue contempt, not only by the Spartans but by the filmmaker.

191 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:48:24am

re: #184 Lidane

Don't care. That happened on the UC Davis quad, which is an open area that people can easily move around in. There was NO REASON to pepper spray anyone. At all.

Of course, since those kids were taking part in an Occupy protest, I'm sure some folks think they deserved it.

I agree, I just don't think deplorable behavior from a few mall cop rejects constitutes a police state.

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:49:00am

re: #188 Lidane

Ah. So the kids deserved to be pepper sprayed then. Thanks for clearing that up.

I don't think KT meant that.

193 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:49:09am

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Free speech and freedom to protest are not absolute. There are rules and laws, commandeering public or private property for any reason (including protests) has certain laws and restriction. As far aas I can tell UC Davis police are not a government agency, I think they're employed by the university.
Sorry, but America is not a police state. It's simply an absurd claim.

I am not saying we live in a police state but the campus cops overreacted big time by pepper spraying the kids. They were in the quad which as students they're permitted to be.

194 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:49:44am

mr twister

195 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:49:48am

Ah, KT. Back to the usual happiness when people get hurt by authority figures. Too bad they can't just waterboard them, eh?

196 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:50:17am

re: #191 Atlas Fails

I agree, I just don't think deplorable behavior from a few mall cop rejects constitutes a police state.

That depends to a small degree on what happens to yon cop.

197 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:50:18am

re: #192 Sergey Romanov

I don't think KT meant that.

Sure he did. After all, if those kids weren't protesting, they wouldn't have been pepper sprayed.

It's pretty much been his standard OWS meme since the start.

198 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:51:34am

re: #191 Atlas Fails

I agree, I just don't think deplorable behavior from a few mall cop rejects constitutes a police state.

They are directly influenced by the behavior from other PDs' reactions to the protests.

Maybe not a de jure police state, but definitely a de facto police "establishment."

199 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:51:49am

re: #197 Lidane

Sure he did. After all, if those kids weren't protesting, they wouldn't have been pepper sprayed.

It's pretty much been his standard OWS meme since the start.

your hostility is now considered humor
LOL

200 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:51:55am

re: #191 Atlas Fails

I agree, I just don't think deplorable behavior from a few mall cop rejects constitutes a police state.

On the UC Davis campus, maybe. But take that same behavior and put it on a larger scale, with "real" cops.

I'm not saying we live in a police state, but the possibility is absolutely there if we don't condemn actions like these and say that they're not okay.

201 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:52:03am

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

I also couldn't agree more with David Brin's complaint that citizen soldiers with day jobs from other cities were treated with undue contempt, not only by the Spartans but by the filmmaker.

Brin has always been one of my favorite writers.

202 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:52:28am

Story I read last night was the students were illegally camping on campus. They were were asked to stop and they complied but they retreated to the Quad which is where this happened. And as students of the university, they have every right to be on the Quad without being pepper sprayed in a ritualized fashion.

203 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:53:13am

re: #200 Lidane

I'm not saying we live in a police state, but the possibility is absolutely there if we don't condemn actions like these and say that they're not okay.

Exactly. Spades need to be called spades. And if they can't be made to go after criminals, then perhaps they need the criminals to go after them. That's why I support police leaks.

204 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:53:26am

re: #189 Decatur Deb

Neither was Alabama in the 60s, but it was close enough.

I also think OWS comparing itself to the civil rights movement is as much of a stretch and the "police state" claim.

205 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:53:43am

re: #193 HappyWarrior

I am not saying we live in a police state but the campus cops overreacted big time by pepper spraying the kids. They were in the quad which as students they're permitted to be.

The admin will doubtlessly cite some vague rule about "creating a disturbance" or some other nonsense. Funny how these "leftist" colleges always seem to come down hard on any student movement that rocks the boat, whether it's Vietnam sit-ins or peaceful protests of corporate greed and a political system that allows it to flourish. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

206 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:53:51am

re: #197 Lidane

Sure he did. After all, if those kids weren't protesting, they wouldn't have been pepper sprayed.

It's pretty much been his standard OWS meme since the start.

Yes. In this case however I read the first part of his comment as a general comment on police tactics (which to him are not indicative of a police state because there are certain limits), not necessarily a comment on UC Davis case. In the second part he pointed out that the UC Davis campus police is allegedly not govt anyway, so again not indicative of a police state.

If I'm wrong and he did mean it, he can correct me.

207 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:54:08am

dostlund Dan Ostlund
NYPD has sidewalk checkpoints requiring ID to pass down Broadway. Iranian-born co-worker said "they used to do that in Tehran."

208 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:54:19am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

I also think OWS comparing itself to the civil rights movement is as much of a stretch and the "police state" claim.

Baby steps.

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:54:32am

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Well, I've only been to Miami once and that was years ago but yeah would probably be safe not to do that. I have worn Pittsburgh sports teams gear in Maryland before. That got some shouts. My kid brother wanted to yell back "shut up" but I didn't want a confrontation.

Years ago, I and some friends from Mills College were running errands in Berkeley. People kept coming up to us, laughing, and saying they were sorry.

Took us a few hours to work it out. All of us had something red on, and Cal had just kicked Stanford's ass.

210 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:54:39am

"Police state" may be hyperbole, but to what degree? Is it closer to actual reality than to say "Nazi Germany"? Is it just "crying wolf" and nothing else? How accurate is the hyperbole?

These are actually important questions, because in the face of absurd situations created by the abuse of power, hyperbole might be justified to highlight a tendency of escalation, thereby draw awareness and thereby prevent worse.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:55:44am

re: #183 laZardo

IIRC Frank Miller admitted that 300 was written as it would have been told by the soldier announcing it to the other Spartans, so the "historical" bit is the fact that the soldier really would have embellished it for propaganda.

Which does explain some of the way the battle is framed, but not the way Spartan society is depicted.

Eh, I get that it is a comic book brought to the screen. I just didn't much care for it.

212 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:56:27am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

As if you'd ever give any credit to OWS for anything.

As far as you're concerned, they're just a bunch of violent, drug-addled, Marxist trust fund hippies who support rape and stabbings and who deserve to be pepper sprayed. The cops can do anything they want, right? I mean, after all, if those kids didn't protest or speak out about things, the cops wouldn't have a reason to beat them or douse them in pepper spray.

213 justaminute  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:57:06am

I watched all the video's from UC Davis and read the reports. The use of pepper spray by Tony Bologna in New York was nothing compared to how it was used at UC Davis. Some of the students actually ended up in the hospital. One student had it sprayed down his throat on purpose. It was reported that he ended up in the hospital throwing up blood. One of the UC Davis faculty is calling for the Chancellor to be fired.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:58:02am

re: #201 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Brin has always been one of my favorite writers.

He went completely ape on Miller and 300--apparently a fight over OWS, but I enjoyed it greatly.

I still think a big biopic on Marathon would be great. Miniseries?

215 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:58:06am

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

In the second part he pointed out that the UC Davis campus police is allegedly not govt anyway, so again not indicative of a police state.

De facto government. Holding monopoly of force until "the real guys" decide to move in. Same difference.

216 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:58:48am

These kids were protesting hikes in their tuition rates. What a bunch of trustfund rats. ///

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:59:36am

re: #215 000G

I agree, but then I'm was not agreeing with KT, only explaning.

218 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:59:36am

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

He went completely ape on Miller and 300--apparently a fight over OWS, but I enjoyed it greatly.

I still think a big biopic on Marathon would be great. Miniseries?

I'd love to see an Uplift movie, though "The Practice Effect" would be cool as well.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:59:36am

re: #213 justaminute

I watched all the video's from UC Davis and read the reports. The use of pepper spray by Tony Bologna in New York was nothing compared to how it was used at UC Davis. Some of the students actually ended up in the hospital. One student had it sprayed down his throat on purpose. It was reported that he ended up in the hospital throwing up blood. One of the UC Davis faculty is calling for the Chancellor to be fired.

There will be more support for this. UC has been fucking this up from day one, and they actually had some time to prepare.

CLARIFYING: There will be more support for canning the Chancellor.

220 reidr  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:00:11pm

I've been a Letterman fan since his early days. He's got his foibles, but he really is Mr. Everyman. He doesn't follow politics closely, he's pragmatic, he doesn't tolerate BS. Kind of a less-informed version of Jon Stewart. Of course, to the wingnuts, that makes him a crazed liberal. You could tell he was not impressed with Cain.

221 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:01:31pm

re: #215 000G

De facto government. Holding monopoly of force until "the real guys" decide to move in. Same difference.

Just for clarity, are the Campus Police not armed agents of the State of California?

222 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:02:42pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

Whatever the tradition of Sharia law and its applications (which have nothing to do with modern Western society) the intention behind it is at least somewhat understandable: They seek to "reduce tensions between men and women".

They see it is inevitable that situations like Herman and his employees will come about if men and women are permitted to mix in a social or professional setting and seek to avoid it by segregating them.

223 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:02:42pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh, I get that it is a comic book brought to the screen. I just didn't much care for it.

Sadly the rule. Doesn't have to be, though. Lots of great pieces of art and literature among comic books (or the American euphemism "graphic novel"), and more adults than ever are aware of that today. Unfortunately, only the superhero candy-bar junkfood variety gets filmed.

Of those, I still like Hellboy the best.

224 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:03:21pm

re: #213 justaminute

Some of the students actually ended up in the hospital. One student had it sprayed down his throat on purpose. It was reported that he ended up in the hospital throwing up blood.

Oh, but they were protesting. That gives the cops the right to use whatever force they want to clear them away.

It's not the cop's fault that he was dealing with a bunch of violent, drug-addled Marxist trust fund hippies. If they hadn't been protesting, he wouldn't have had a reason to pepper spray them.

///

225 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:03:32pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

Well, I've only been to Miami once and that was years ago but yeah would probably be safe not to do that. I have worn Pittsburgh sports teams gear in Maryland before. That got some shouts. My kid brother wanted to yell back "shut up" but I didn't want a confrontation.

I went to Pitt-West Virginia game in Morgantown fully decked out in Pitt gear once. I won't go back there. The opposing fans were incredibly rude; one guy poured beer on me, another threw his nachos, and I had more gay slurs hurled at me than a middle school boy who sings in a talent show. I've got a few friends who go or went to WVU, and we have fun jabbing at each other over the rivalry, but it seems a lot of people (not just WVU fans; I was embarrassed by the behavior of my fellow Pittsburgh fans displayed in a Steelers-Browns game I attended a few years ago) go waaaay overboard with this stuff.

226 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:04:01pm

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

I agree, but then I'm was not agreeing with KT, only explaning.

I know, I was just expanding on that line of thought. I often leave out meta-commentary and only in hindsight realize it would have been neccessary to guarantee correct interpretation of my posts.

227 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:05:01pm

re: #221 Decatur Deb

Just for clarity, are the Campus Police not armed agents of the State of California?

Don't know for sure, good question.

228 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:05:58pm

re: #225 Atlas Fails

I went to Pitt-West Virginia game in Morgantown fully decked out in Pitt gear once. I won't go back there. The opposing fans were incredibly rude; one guy poured beer on me, another threw his nachos, and I had more gay slurs hurled at me than a middle school boy who sings in a talent show. I've got a few friends who go or went to WVU, and we have fun jabbing at each other over the rivalry, but it seems a lot of people (not just WVU fans; I was embarrassed by the behavior of my fellow Pittsburgh fans displayed in a Steelers-Browns game I attended a few years ago) go waaay overboard with this stuff.

The Ravens mostly were tame. No one tried to pick a fight but I am not a scrawny guy either heh.People do take sports way too seriously though and I love sports.

229 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:13:35pm

re: #224 Lidane

Oh, but they were protesting. That gives the cops the right to use whatever force they want to clear them away.

There are some pretty clear laws regarding how and when campus police can respond. It has nothing to do with the political affiliation of the people involved. If they gave a legal order to disperse and if the campus is within its legal rights to use pepper spray, then it's all ok.
Imagine if the campus didn't have the legal rights to do these things. Then anybody could march in and take the university by simply squatting on the property. These laws exist for a reason and it has nothing to do with a police state. In fact, these laws exist to protect the rights of all citizens, not just the protesters.

230 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:15:12pm

ah, I'll take this debate up to the next thread.

231 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:17:14pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

So as long as it's legal, as in: backed by laws, you have no problems with any action, no matter how excessive?

That's just pathetic.

232 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:55:52pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Free speech and freedom to protest are not absolute. There are rules and laws, commandeering public or private property for any reason (including protests) has certain laws and restriction. As far aas I can tell UC Davis police are not a government agency, I think they're employed by the university.
Sorry, but America is not a police state. It's simply an absurd claim.

Umm, you realize the contradiction you just made, right? Whether the UC Davis cops are sworn officers or glorified security guards, they are acting under the aegis of a California state university, itself a government entity. The difference is what set of laws and regulations they fall under when they fuck up.

Typically, security guards don't have the power of arrest unless they either personally witness or otherwise have hard proof of a felony (such as video), so my bet is that the UC Davis cops are sworn California peace officers (just as campus cops are here in TN at most state universities), with the powers and responsibilities that entails.


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 Frank says:

Let's just admit that public education is mediocre at best.