Laszlo: Bohemian Groove
Music • Views: 27,824
Here’s an ultra-tight performance by the band Laszlo, a track titled “Bohemian Groove.”
Youtube Video
712 comments
1 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:43:02pm |
That's actually great to listen to in the kitchen. Gave my veggie chopping a certain rhythm. I think syncopation might be a bit hazardous with my knife though. Ouch!
| 2 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:43:57pm |
Trivia question - How did "Bohemian" become associated with a free wheeling hedon-filled lifestyle?
| 3 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:46:22pm |
re: #2 Linden Arden
Trivia question - How did "Bohemian" become associated with a free wheeling hedon-filled lifestyle?
How did Goth go from Roman era barbarians to pastey twits who listen to crappy music?
| 4 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:50:21pm |
re: #2 Linden Arden
Trivia question - How did "Bohemian" become associated with a free wheeling hedon-filled lifestyle?
I think god proclaimed it
| 5 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:50:42pm |
re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
How did Goth go from Roman era barbarians to pastey twits who listen to crappy music?
Please tell!
| 6 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:52:13pm |
re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
How did Goth go from Roman era barbarians to pastey twits who listen to crappy music?
have you seen the new reality show,
'Ask Marilyn!'
(the cosmetic section is pay per view)
| 7 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:53:20pm |
re: #5 Linden Arden
Please tell!
Well, I will say being the only one wearing chainmail and wielding a battle axe when I was invited to a Goth party turned out better than I expected.
| 8 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 5:57:05pm |
I see this thread has the blues too...
Joe B
| 9 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:01:22pm |
re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, I will say being the only one wearing chainmail and wielding a battle axe when I was invited to a Goth party turned out better than I expected.
More power to you although we are vastly apart
I am just a Jameson-soaked fucking Irishman. Loves me some Van Morrison and Lonnie Donnegan (RIP). And the Pogues too. And fuck the Queen.
| 11 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:04:13pm |
UC DAVIS OCCUPY 2011 "you will be subject to force"
VIDEO: UC Davis police warned protestors
Another video that has surfaced online shows UC Davis police warning protestors one-on-one they would be subject to the use of force if they continued to protest and block a walkway on the campus.
Still outrageously outrageous?
| 12 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:05:28pm |
re: #9 Linden Arden
More power to you although we are vastly apart
I am just a Jameson-soaked fucking Irishman. Loves me some Van Morrison and Lonnie Donnegan (RIP). And the Pogues too. And fuck the Queen.
here's to you...
| 13 |
darthstar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:05:49pm |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
UC DAVIS OCCUPY 2011 "you will be subject to force"
[Video]
VIDEO: UC Davis police warned protestorsStill outrageously outrageous?
Nope. Not obsessively obsessed either. And I used to live near Davis, so I give a shit.
| 14 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:06:07pm |
re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
How did Goth go from Roman era barbarians to pastey twits who listen to crappy music?
hey, dammit, I'm a 30-something year old twit who listens to that crappy music, who is friends with 50 year olds who listen to that crappy music ;-)
| 15 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:07:29pm |
re: #14 WindUpBird
hey, dammit, I'm a 30-something year old twit who listens to that crappy music, who is friends with 50 year olds who listen to that crappy music ;-)
Got a battle axe handy?
| 16 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:08:54pm |
re: #13 darthstar
Nope. Not obsessively obsessed either. And I used to live near Davis, so I give a shit.
whoa!...used to and all that...I used to live near Briggs Stadium
| 17 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:09:54pm |
re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Got a battle axe handy?
I have one right here!
it is currently turned to drop-D ^_^
| 18 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:10:04pm |
re: #14 WindUpBird
hey, dammit, I'm a 30-something year old twit who listens to that crappy music, who is friends with 50 year olds who listen to that crappy music ;-)
then we are not friends....you cannot defy the metric
| 19 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:10:34pm |
re: #18 albusteve
then we are not friends...you cannot defy the metric
| 20 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:12:09pm |
re: #19 WindUpBird
I do not attend the Church of the Holy Cobain...they say he could walk on pretzels...I don't believe it
| 21 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:13:22pm |
Last Dictator Standing
| 22 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:14:44pm |
I'm not all about NW music, it's true...but I did dig Wet Smog for a couple of years...
| 23 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:14:53pm |
re: #20 albusteve
I do not attend the Church of the Holy Cobain...they say he could walk on pretzels...I don't believe it
You can at least enjoy some of their rarer works.
| 24 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:15:03pm |
The mighty Pogues are now part of an insurance commercial on TV.
"If I should fall from grace with God
Where no doctor can relieve me
If I'm buried 'neath the sod
But the angels won't receive me
Let me go, boys
Let me go, boys
Let me go down in the mud
Where the rivers all run dry
This land was always ours
Was the proud land of our fathers
It belongs to us and them
Not to any of the others"
My Jameson's consumption is up on this blasphemy.
| 25 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:16:36pm |
re: #20 albusteve
I do not attend the Church of the Holy Cobain...they say he could walk on pretzels...I don't believe it
I'm a Melvins fan, I go to the source. Cobain was the guy who wrote pop hits after learning everything he knew from the Melvins
| 26 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:17:03pm |
re: #24 Linden Arden
The mighty Pogues are now part of an insurance commercial on TV.
"If I should fall from grace with God
Where no doctor can relieve me
If I'm buried 'neath the sod
But the angels won't receive meLet me go, boys
Let me go, boys
Let me go down in the mud
Where the rivers all run dryThis land was always ours
Was the proud land of our fathers
It belongs to us and them
Not to any of the others"My Jameson's consumption is up on this blasphemy.
the Stones made millions selling their riffs...
Occupy Stonestreet!
| 28 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:19:28pm |
re: #27 WindUpBird
MELVINS
[Video]
hey that was kinds cool...now pay me for listening, my Bose were maxed and now my iguana is acting strange
| 29 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:19:41pm |
re: #14 WindUpBird
hey, dammit, I'm a 30-something year old twit who listens to that crappy music, who is friends with 50 year olds who listen to that crappy music ;-)
The transformation is invested with the mysterious and the shameful, while the thing I am becomes something else: part character, part sensation. The shadow is cast.
(or so I've heard)
| 30 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:20:24pm |
| 31 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:21:00pm |
I was listening to Lightnin Hopkins and then suddenly, Lightnin Melvins...stop!
| 32 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:21:12pm |
re: #26 albusteve
the Stones made millions selling their riffs...
Occupy Stonestreet!
"Mothers Little Helper" should be a pharma commercial for Prozac.
| 33 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:23:01pm |
re: #32 Linden Arden
"Mothers Little Helper" should be a pharma commercial for Prozac.
hah!...you get it
I'll play it
| 34 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:25:36pm |
so who's right and honest?...the Stones or their shit eating critics?
heh
| 35 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:28:02pm |
re: #34 albusteve
so who's right and honest?...the Stones or their shit eating critics?
heh
They just released a remix of 'Some Girls' with 12 new songs as bonus tracks.
Its out. I might go buy it after the crowd dies some. 12 new tracks? Love the Stones too.
| 36 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:28:32pm |
re: #28 albusteve
hey that was kinds cool...now pay me for listening, my Bose were maxed and now my iguana is acting strange
The Melvins bring with them strange phenomena!
Also, they have two drummers now, so their danger quotient is increasing
| 37 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:29:20pm |
re: #34 albusteve
so who's right and honest?...the Stones or their shit eating critics?
heh
I was never much of a Stones fan. The Who was better. So was Floyd. Stones could make it into the top 10 of the era I think think they're way overrated.
| 38 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:31:47pm |
re: #35 Linden Arden
They just released a remix of 'Some Girls' with 12 new songs as bonus tracks.
Its out. I might go buy it after the crowd dies some. 12 new tracks? Love the Stones too.
yeah, Mick is churning the vaults, which is cool in their case....the Stones have tons of stuff unrealeased...tons, like years worth...there is a bunch of blues stuff sitting there ready to be mastered...my interest
| 39 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:31:55pm |
re: #37 Killgore Trout
I was never much of a Stones fan. The Who was better. So was Floyd. Stones could make it into the top 10 of the era I think think they're way overrated.
Oh. Krikee.
| 40 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:33:14pm |
re: #37 Killgore Trout
I was never much of a Stones fan. The Who was better. So was Floyd. Stones could make it into the top 10 of the era I think think they're way overrated.
that's funny...will I see you at the AirPort Lounge next week?
| 42 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:36:07pm |
The Doors and Jim Morrison are also on my absurdly overrated list.
| 44 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:37:16pm |
re: #42 Killgore Trout
The Doors and Jim Morrison are also on my absurdly overrated list.
Bach was another no talent twinkie
| 45 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:37:26pm |
The Kinks are on my UNDERRATED list.
#1 actually.
| 46 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:38:15pm |
| 47 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:38:26pm |
re: #45 Linden Arden
The Kinks are on my UNDERRATED list.
#1 actually.
Good choice although I don't think I'd rate them quite so high.
| 48 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:39:43pm |
old those old bands did unique stuff...buncha tards
| 50 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:42:11pm |
re: #48 albusteve
old those old bands did unique stuff...buncha tards
Not so much. I don't think we've seen anything terribly new since the Beatles. We should be in for something interesting soon but not yet.
| 51 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:43:58pm |
re: #50 Killgore Trout
Not so much. I don't think we've seen anything terribly new since the Beatles. We should be in for something interesting soon but not yet.
Are you like one of those biologists who says we haven't seen anything terribly new since cyanobacteria?
| 52 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:44:35pm |
The OccupyLA transformation
You don't have to go home, but ya can't stay here.
| 53 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:45:10pm |
re: #51 negativ
Are you like one of those biologists who says we haven't seen anything terribly new since cyanobacteria?
RNA, DNA? Not a big deal.
| 54 |
albusteve Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:45:28pm |
re: #50 Killgore Trout
Not so much. I don't think we've seen anything terribly new since the Beatles. We should be in for something interesting soon but not yet.
that's precisely why the Stones are significant...they carry on and preserve the past, yet crashed disco when nobody was looking....did the Who do this stuff?...
| 55 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:46:00pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
Curt Cobain also stinks too.
At this point, decompostion has probably done its work, so the smell is probably negligible.
| 56 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:46:28pm |
re: #52 Rightwingconspirator
The OccupyLA transformation
You don't have to go home, but ya can't stay here.
Don't go getting yourself peppered. Don't believe the hype, it's not a food product.
| 57 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:46:59pm |
OCCUPY DURBAN!
Nations most at risk from climate change may “occupy” Durban talks
It's a nonsense bit of an article, but it seems timely.
| 58 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:48:51pm |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
UC DAVIS OCCUPY 2011 "you will be subject to force"
[Video]
VIDEO: UC Davis police warned protestorsStill outrageously outrageous?
Does it become a reasonable response if they said they would do it in advance? No, not really.
| 59 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:55:00pm |
re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist
Does it become a reasonable response if they said they would do it in advance? No, not really.
Maybe, but the video is interesting from a couple different levels. Does that sound like a rogue cop? he gives the same canned speech to each individual. He didn't make that up on his own, that's part of some established policy. Also, Does that sound like someone who was instructed to not use physical force by the president of the university? He gives the same speech about using force to each protester clearly and on camera.
There's a whole lot of lying going on. That officer may be the most honest person in the whole scenario.
| 60 |
Interesting Times Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:59:33pm |
re: #57 freetoken
Speaking of climate, have you seen this? Sure to become denier fodder, cherry-picked like a Washington state orchard:
"This implies that the effect of CO2 on climate is less than previously thought," he explained.
...
By incorporating this newly discovered "climate insensitivity" into their models, the international team was able to reduce uncertainty in its future climate projections.The new models predict that given a doubling in CO2 levels from pre-industrial levels, the Earth's surface temperatures will rise by 1.7C to 2.6C (3.1F to 4.7F).
That is a much tighter range than the one produced by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) 2007 report, which suggested a rise of between 2.0C to 4.5C.
The new analysis also reduces the expected rise in average surface temperatures to just over 2C, from 3C.
I can't see the original paper in Science magazine, since it's behind a subscriber wall, but would you say this is yet another case of botched media science reporting, missing the actual point by several dozen light years?
| 61 |
Kronocide Fri, Nov 25, 2011 6:59:59pm |
re: #57 freetoken
OCCUPY DURBAN!
Nations most at risk from climate change may “occupy” Durban talks
It's a nonsense bit of an article, but it seems timely.
I wonder if they get pepper sprayed.
| 62 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:00:39pm |
re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist
Does it become a reasonable response if they said they would do it in advance? No, not really.
So if I give fair warning I'm going to kick someone in the balls when all they're doing is sitting there, its all good right?
| 63 |
Kronocide Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:02:16pm |
re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So if I give fair warning I'm going to kick someone in the balls when all they're doing is sitting there, its all good right?
At least you're honest about kicking them in the balls.
| 65 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:03:24pm |
It would make the GOP debates a lot more interesting. I could see Perry's opening comments "Good evening everyone. At the 15 minute mark, I'm going to hit Ron Paul with a haymaker. Thank you."
| 66 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:03:38pm |
After the police arrested numerous journalists covering the raid on Occupy Wall Street's Zuccotti Park encampment as well as subsequent protester actions, media outlets condemned the NYPD's actions which also included restricting access to witness events. Yesterday, representatives from the AP, the NY Times, the Daily News, the NY Post, and the National Press Photographers Association met with Police Commissioner Kelly and chief police spokesman Paul Browne to discuss the situation—resulting in Kelly issuing a memo to the department saying the press should be allowed to do its job.
According to the News, part of the Patrol Guide says, “When incidents spill over or occur on private property, members of the media will not be arrested for criminal trespass, unless an owner or representative expressly indicates that the press is not to be permitted." Kelly's message also said, "Supervisors may restrict access to an incident scene only in those exceptional circumstances where it is absolutely necessary for law enforcement or public order purposes." In other words, putting press in its own pens away from the action may still happen!
The AP's senior managing editor, Michael Oreskes, said, "This is a welcome step to assure that journalists can do their jobs. If followed, these instructions should prevent a recurrence of at least some of the unfortunate interference that journalists experienced as they covered the Occupy Wall Street events last week."
| 67 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:03:56pm |
apparently reporters are hippies subject to punching as well!
| 69 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:04:52pm |
re: #66 WindUpBird
from [Link: gothamist.com...]
| 70 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:10:03pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
Don't go getting yourself peppered. Don't believe the hype, it's not a food product.
Nah. That's why I got a telephoto lens.
| 71 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:10:25pm |
re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
So if I give fair warning I'm going to kick someone in the balls when all they're doing is sitting there, its all good right?
As long as your speech is "canned" and delivered with the flat affect of a sociopath, yes. Also, according to Killgore's police expert, when they roll into a ball to protect themselves, that's "active resistance" which calls for you to get in some strikes with a baton.
| 72 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:10:45pm |
re: #60 publicityStunted
In fact, I just wrote a comment to a CNET article that references that BBC article:
[Link: www.smartplanet.com...]
Never underestimate the ability of the mass media to slaughter a science story.
| 73 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:12:05pm |
re: #66 WindUpBird
how nice of the police to respect the freedom of the press.
That's up there with the medal that guy woulda gotten for not hitting a college student in the face!
| 74 |
Kronocide Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:12:44pm |
re: #67 WindUpBird
apparently reporters are hippies subject to punching as well!
Pepper spray is aerosolized in organic olive oil so they should appreciate the environmental considerations of their oppressors.
| 75 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:13:06pm |
re: #73 windsagio
oh also, I think you're being a bit TOO harsh on Nirvana. 2 of 'em couldn't play of course, but Curt knew his way around writing a hook and a song.
| 76 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:13:18pm |
re: #59 Killgore Trout
Maybe, but the video is interesting from a couple different levels. Does that sound like a rogue cop? he gives the same canned speech to each individual. He didn't make that up on his own, that's part of some established policy. Also, Does that sound like someone who was instructed to not use physical force by the president of the university? He gives the same speech about using force to each protester clearly and on camera.
There's a whole lot of lying going on. That officer may be the most honest person in the whole scenario.
He may be following procedure at that point. They're sitting down, and refusing to move, he's doing the warning, although the version I've heard when I was was the sitter was 'you will be arrested'. 'We will use force' is sort of stupid. Any police officer can be assumed to be prepared to use force if necessary.
I am baffled as to why he doesn't have a bullhorn for this operation, and why he's apparently been put in charge of screaming the script individually to each sitter.
That's the point at which, if they do not get up, you, with the gentlemen in the back, start arresting them. If need be, they can be carried, like sacks of flour. There's photos of the Berkeley PD doing this with the kids from the BofA sit-in. It's not fun for anyone, but it can be done.
There just isn't, as far as I know, a procedure that covers pepper-spraying down a row of people like that. Doing that serves very little purpose, among other things. You pepper spray to get people to back off. These people were seated. Unless the theory was that if they were sprayed they'd break and run, saving the cops the trouble of the arrests...which isn't procedure anywhere that I know about.
What they did makes no sense. It was poorly planned, poorly executed, and made UC Davis look bad. I'm fairly sure the chancellor is now lying through her teeth, but yes, this is still outrageous. It doesn't go away because more evidence of how badly they handled this mess emerges.
| 77 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:15:42pm |
re: #60 publicityStunted
BTW, WTFUWT jumped on this before it was published. The climatology-specific websites have discussed it. Now, just in time for the UNFCCC talks to be headlines around the world does the general media want to run with it.
There is nothing, I want to stress this, nothing useful to the goal of actually reducing the negative affects of human activities on the ecosystem/climate that can come from various media attempts to volley for market share by ever escalating headline blurbs.
| 78 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:16:41pm |
re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist
I read an interesting article somewhere which I can't find how for 30 years (basically from Chicago convention to WTO seattle) the police had adapted the technique of handling protesters gently and how amazing it was that in the 10 years since we've come to accept this "SWAT/Body Armor/Club/Pepper Spray" technique as the norm.
| 79 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:18:14pm |
re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist
I am baffled as to why he doesn't have a bullhorn for this operation, and why he's apparently been put in charge of screaming the script individually to each sitter.
That seems to be part of the established proceedure. He seems to need confirmation from each individual. I can kind of understand the rationale behind the procedure but I'm not sure the kids knew what they were agreeing to.
| 80 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:22:33pm |
re: #79 Killgore Trout
That seems to be part of the established proceedure. He seems to need confirmation from each individual. I can kind of understand the rationale behind the procedure but I'm not sure the kids knew what they were agreeing to.
Do you have reason think it's part of procedure except that they're doing it? I don't think they require confirmation or assent from the protesters for anything, they just need them to be aware that they'll be arrested if they continue to do what they're doing.
And you can't agree to be assaulted by the cops in lieu of being arrested. I do agree that the protesters probably thought he was talking about being picked up, cuffed and carried--because that would have been the actual normal thing cops do.
Just because they're doing it, doesn't mean it's correct, normative, or legal. It just means that's what they did.
I'd like to hear Spicuzza's explanation, but I assume she's heavily lawyered up at this point.
| 81 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:23:19pm |
Van the Man and LonnieSloop Jon B trad - as the Beach Boys found it
| 82 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:23:22pm |
re: #79 Killgore Trout
Those kids were figuring on getting arrested. What was the spray supposed to accomplish anyway? It was used to extract a price in pain for resisting. Not to make the arrests any easier. Or safer.
| 83 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:23:31pm |
I also wonder why he is apparently the only one doing this. The others are just standing there. Having someone else work the line would make more sense. Less screaming per cop.
| 84 |
Interesting Times Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:24:19pm |
re: #77 freetoken
BTW, WTFUWT jumped on this before it was published. The climatology-specific websites have discussed it. Now, just in time for the UNFCCC talks to be headlines around the world does the general media want to run with it.
Hey, if you can't bait them with "Climategate" 2.0... 9_9
Though when I consider the remarks from Climatologist Andrey Ganopolski:
“The results of this paper are the result of the analysis of [a] cold climate during the glacial maximum (the most recent ice age)...There is evidence the relationship between CO2 and surface temperatures is likely to be different [during] very cold periods than warmer.”
...it would seem to contradict certain denier memes, i.e. that CO2 only has an impact during ice ages. If anything, Ganopolski is saying the opposite - that even if this paper's conclusions are correct, it only shows CO2 sensitivity is less than predicted during that ice age.
Present events - ocean acidification, tree and forest death, melting tundra outgassing, degradation of various other carbon sinks - suggest that climate is more sensitive to CO2 when it's already warm. And this study doesn't seem to take into account the positive feedback mechanisms I mentioned.
| 85 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:24:40pm |
re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist
I couldn't get myself to watch the clip was it the same guy that did the actual spraying then?
| 86 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:24:52pm |
re: #82 Rightwingconspirator
Those kids were figuring on getting arrested. What was the spray supposed to accomplish anyway? It was used to extract a price in pain for resisting. Not to make the arrests any easier. Or safer.
The only thing I can think of beyond that, or just dumbness--"I was told to pepper spray if we had trouble, I guess this is trouble...heck, spray 'em", is that they thought they could get them up and running with the pepper spray and save themselves the trouble of arrests.
Which is going to sound GREAT in court.
| 87 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:25:37pm |
re: #85 windsagio
I couldn't get myself to watch the clip was it the same guy that did the actual spraying then?
I'm not totally sure, but it looks like the same man to me. White, fortyish, kind of moonfaced.
| 88 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:26:42pm |
re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist
thats him yeah.
Maybe the whole act was just his personal gig, actually.
I'd actually be more comfortable if it was a guy out of control rather than an organized effort.
| 89 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:28:56pm |
Apple's Friday Only sale looks to have one good deal, which I might pounce upon:
[Link: store.apple.com...]
Which is better than the Amazon price:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
Anyone have experience with the G-tech portables?
| 90 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:31:14pm |
The other thing that baffles me is that I keep hearing people talking about the cops being surrounded, but if you look at the various tapes I've seen, there are a number of officers at the scene, none of them look notably stressed or hurried, their stance is non-defensive, and the standing students are similarly just standing around, waiting to see what will happen.
Other OWS spraying incidents, I've seen protesters surging and yelling, the cops are moving like men who don't know if they're safe or not, and the spraying appears to be an attempt to drive the crowd back.
This just makes no damn sense. They did not have a reason to spray that I can see.
| 91 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:32:05pm |
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
No 3 was the most clarifying: draft laws against the little-known loophole that currently allows ***members of Congress to pass legislation affecting Delaware-based corporations in which they themselves are investors.***
When I saw this list – and especially the last agenda item – the scales fell from my eyes. Of course, these unarmed people would be having the shit kicked out of them.
America, fuck yeah!
| 92 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:32:20pm |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
UC DAVIS OCCUPY 2011 "you will be subject to force"
[Video]
VIDEO: UC Davis police warned protestorsStill outrageously outrageous?
I've said this many times before. Unarmed people sitting on the ground holding hands are about the most dangerous thing on the planet.
OMG, they blocked a walkway, Mommy! Please, can we kill them all next time?
| 93 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:33:03pm |
So, when you connect the dots, properly understood, what happened this week is the first battle in a civil war; a civil war in which, for now, only one side is choosing violence. It is a battle in which members of Congress, with the collusion of the American president, sent violent, organised suppression against the people they are supposed to represent. Occupy has touched the third rail: personal congressional profits streams. Even though they are, as yet, unaware of what the implications of their movement are, those threatened by the stirrings of their dreams of reform are not.Sadly, Americans this week have come one step closer to being true brothers and sisters of the protesters in Tahrir Square. Like them, our own national leaders, who likely see their own personal wealth under threat from transparency and reform, are now making war upon us.
| 94 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:33:35pm |
re: #91 WindUpBird
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
America, fuck yeah!
Don't fuck with America!
We'll kill all your buffalo.
| 95 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:34:00pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
Curt Cobain also stinks too.
Yeah, Kurt really sucked. Only redefined rock music for a generation. What a loser.
| 96 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:35:44pm |
re: #54 albusteve
that's precisely why the Stones are significant...they carry on and preserve the past, yet crashed disco when nobody was looking...did the Who do this stuff?...
[Video]
No, the Who were less followers of the latest trends...they hated disco. Hence the song "Sister Disco" from their last album with Moon, Who Are You.
| 97 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:36:50pm |
re: #88 windsagio
thats him yeah.
Maybe the whole act was just his personal gig, actually.
I'd actually be more comfortable if it was a guy out of control rather than an organized effort.
I don't think so. There's two sprayers, and the other cops move in to start arresting them in a way that doesn't make me think that they're thinking, "Well, Pike just lost his damn mind, this is going to be fun to explain."
But it's possible.
Just watched some of the footage again, and what's very interesting is that while the standing students are filming, and yelling 'Shame on you', they make no aggressive moves that I can see. There's simply no way to cast this as a situation where the cops were legitimately worried about their own safety.
| 98 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:37:00pm |
The Stones are only topped by Metallica as the incarnation of evil corporate sellout rock. It's not 40 years ago.
| 99 |
Big Joe Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:37:09pm |
This music is like Alan Parson's Project meets jazz.
| 100 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:37:34pm |
re: #94 Linden Arden
Don't fuck with America!
We'll kill all your buffalo.
| 101 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:38:24pm |
re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist
Do you have reason think it's part of procedure except that they're doing it? I don't think they require confirmation or assent from the protesters for anything, they just need them to be aware that they'll be arrested if they continue to do what they're doing.
It's a scripted speech. He gives the same speech to each protester and waits for confirmation. He isn't just making this up on the spot. The language is probably carefully crafted by lawyers. My guess is the gimmick is that this releases the cops from liability. I wouldn't be surprised if the footage was filmed by the cops themselves. If not they probably have similar footage for defense against lawsuits and unfair termination of employment.
| 102 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:38:25pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
I try not to get ranty about these things, but seirously.
They're acting like its their God-given right to hideously abuse people who don't follow their orders to the letter. It's the entitlement that bugs me.
| 103 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:38:51pm |
Between the protests and the shoppers, this really has been the season of pepper spray.
I have some in my handbag, but I never thought it was this newsworthy.
| 104 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:39:07pm |
Look guys, I went to college in the late 70s. The debate on which band (Stones vs The Who) is most badass has never been resolved.
I love them both.
Chicks don't like The Who though - fwiw.
| 106 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:40:30pm |
re: #104 Linden Arden
I just always think of the 'bittersweet symphony' thing and get all mad.
| 107 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:40:47pm |
| 108 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:41:07pm |
re: #95 palomino
Yeah, he really sucked. Only redefined rock music for a generation. What a loser.
Smells Like Rockin' Robin
Same recycled shit.
| 109 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:41:13pm |
re: #102 windsagio
I try not to get ranty about these things, but seirously.
They're acting like its their God-given right to hideously abuse people who don't follow their orders to the letter. It's the entitlement that bugs me.
It's the authoritarian mindset. Dangerous to basic democracy. Stooges.
| 110 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:41:41pm |
re: #101 Killgore Trout
It's a scripted speech. He gives the same speech to each protester and waits for confirmation. He isn't just making this up on the spot. The language is probably carefully crafted by lawyers. My guess is the gimmick is that this releases the sops from liability. I wouldn't be surprised if the footage was filmed by the cops themselves. If not they probably have similar footage for defense against lawsuits and unfair termination of employment.
I agree that he didn't make up the verbiage himself on the spot. It may UC Davis PD procedure, possibly one of some standing, or possibly created twenty-four hours before this happened.
The idea that it will actually release the cops or the campus from liability seems dubious to me, particularly since there is already some California precedent in place on the use of pepper spray as a means of coercion.
| 111 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:43:04pm |
| 112 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:43:10pm |
re: #79 Killgore Trout
That seems to be part of the established proceedure. He seems to need confirmation from each individual. I can kind of understand the rationale behind the procedure but I'm not sure the kids knew what they were agreeing to.
Probably because they weren't agreeing to anything. Peacefully refusing to comply with the terms of an ultimatum in no way constitutes acceptance of any violence implied by said ultimatum.
You act like they waived their civil rights by clicking through some invisible EULA.
| 113 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:43:18pm |
re: #109 Stanley Sea
yes, yes, and yes.
Go with the authoritarian 'they deserve it for being disorderly' mindset from a certain element of the populace (*winks at KT*) and you have a really nice package
| 114 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:43:27pm |
re: #104 Linden Arden
Look guys, I went to college in the late 70s. The debate on which band (Stones vs The Who) is most badass has never been resolved.
I love them both.
Chicks don't like The Who though - fwiw.
Definitely true. Even though Daltrey was a kind of midget Robert Plant sex symbol for a while, the band didn't appeal to women much. Their music had a more macho, harder element, not as many love songs...just didn't appeal to the ladies.
| 115 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:44:51pm |
Also, bands need to learn when to stop. 50 years is a good run, but at some point about 20 years in you're just cashing in.
| 116 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:45:29pm |
Took a nap. Supposed to go out tonight. We all decided that tonight was amateur night and prob a bad idea. Nap for nada, I'll be up eating ham sandwiches instead!
| 117 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:45:58pm |
re: #108 Killgore Trout
Smells Like Rockin' Robin
[Video]
Same recycled shit.
It's ALL recycled shit. What did Led Zep do besides rip off great old blues masters? It's all in HOW you do it. And then there's the lyrics too. Advantage Nirvana.
| 118 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:46:10pm |
re: #116 Stanley Sea
WUB asked me to go out, but I have to work *sadface*
| 119 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:46:35pm |
re: #112 goddamnedfrank
Probably because they weren't agreeing to anything. Peacefully refusing to comply with the terms of an ultimatum in no way constitutes acceptance of any violence implied by said ultimatum.
You act like they waived their civil rights by clicking through some invisible EULA.
My guess this is probably a legal defense for the cops. Kind of like miranda rights, suspects don't always really understand the implications of the speech but it's something that will hold up in court for the cops to cover their asses.
| 120 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:47:31pm |
re: #111 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
aww, sad. Our humanity is belittled.
Sad - the Black Rhino is no more. Thanks for the illustration.
| 121 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:47:53pm |
re: #117 palomino
It's ALL recycled shit. What did Led Zep do besides rip off great old blues masters? It's all in HOW you do it. And then there's the lyrics too. Advantage Nirvana.
Not all of it is recycled shit :D Early electronic artists couldn't recycle anything, because the equipment didn't exist
| 122 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:48:27pm |
| 123 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:48:35pm |
re: #117 palomino
Its funny because I linked earlier the thing where Nirvana lead into SLTS with "More than a feeling" at shows.
It lead to an interesting convo between wub and me about how there's actually a fairly limited number of really good chord progressions. Naturally there's a lot of overlap.
| 124 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:48:40pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
My guess this is probably a legal defense for the cops. Kind of like miranda rights, suspects don't always really understand the implications of the speech but it's something that will hold up in court for the cops to cover their asses.
You make a lot of guesses, and base a lot of raw assertions on those guesses.
| 125 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:49:00pm |
re: #117 palomino
It's ALL recycled shit. What did Led Zep do besides rip off great old blues masters? It's all in HOW you do it. And then there's the lyrics too. Advantage Nirvana.
Zelpin didn't only rip off old blues masters, they ripped off people ripping off blues masters.
Led Zeppelin Examples of Plagiarism
| 127 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:49:23pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
They can recite all the protocol they want. At the end of the day the force is justified, or it is not.
It's like disclaimers. They do not absolve the operator of negligence, malice or misconduct.
| 128 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:50:34pm |
re: #117 palomino
It's ALL recycled shit. What did Led Zep do besides rip off great old blues masters? It's all in HOW you do it. And then there's the lyrics too. Advantage Nirvana.
Windy had me trying to find their Journey song, I couldnt, but it was great watching all the old vids.
My MOM loves the Who. Bleah.
| 129 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:50:43pm |
re: #121 WindUpBird
Not all of it is recycled shit :D Early electronic artists couldn't recycle anything, because the equipment didn't exist
Of course I exaggerate to make a point. But most rock was very heavily influenced by blues, folk, even country music that had been around for decades. To write off Nirvana or any other band as "recycled shit" is to completely misunderstand modern pop music and the way that acts influence one another.
| 131 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:51:17pm |
Krugman:
"I really wasn’t planning on blogging on Thanksgiving Day. But what’s going on in Europe deserves a mention.
So, the big story: German bonds are now being priced as a risky asset — what the FT calls the “apocalypse trade“. The interest rate on bunds, at 2.21% as I write this, is still very low by historical standards. But it’s above the rate on UK bonds (2.17%) and way above the rate on US bonds (1.88%).
The way to see this is that the market is in effect pricing in a real possibility of eurozone collapse.
In particular, market expectations seem to assume that the ECB will remain utterly indifferent to its responsibilities. The German breakeven rate, an implicit forecast of inflation over the next 5 years, is just 1 percent. That’s a disaster level, implying severe deflation in the debtor nations — or, more likely, a euro breakup.
Awesome all around.
yay!
| 132 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:51:33pm |
re: #123 windsagio
Its funny because I linked earlier the thing where Nirvana lead into SLTS with "More than a feeling" at shows.
It lead to an interesting convo between wub and me about how there's actually a fairly limited number of really good chord progressions. Naturally there's a lot of overlap.
More than a feeling? I found that, inwas looking for the crazier scenario - Journey!!! Lol
| 133 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:51:42pm |
re: #112 goddamnedfrank
Probably because they weren't agreeing to anything. Peacefully refusing to comply with the terms of an ultimatum in no way constitutes acceptance of any violence implied by said ultimatum.
You act like they waived their civil rights by clicking through some invisible EULA.
Yeah, there just isn't a way to get a verbal agreement to be subject to situationally inappropriate police response.
The kids are nodding because they're assuming that what they're being told is in the realm of normal police work. "If you don't move, we're gonna arrest you. If you don't cooperate with arrest, we're going to carry you like a sack of potatoes. Got that? OK, will you please leave this walkway?That's a no? OK. You're under arrest. You have the right to remain silent..."
| 134 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:51:52pm |
re: #128 Stanley Sea
Windy had me trying to find their Journey song, I couldnt, but it was great watching all the old vids.
My MOM loves the Who. Bleah.
Sabbath is mightier than the Who or Zep ^_^
| 135 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:52:38pm |
re: #123 windsagio
Its funny because I linked earlier the thing where Nirvana lead into SLTS with "More than a feeling" at shows.
It lead to an interesting convo between wub and me about how there's actually a fairly limited number of really good chord progressions. Naturally there's a lot of overlap.
Right, none of this stuff exists in a vacuum. There's only so much reinvention of the wheel you can do in the conventional rock band format.
| 136 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:53:47pm |
re: #132 Stanley Sea
haha no Boston :D
Other good one, for you geeks, people are convinced that the people who made the theme for Buffy the Vampire Slayer actually copied this:
| 137 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:53:50pm |
re: #135 palomino
Right, none of this stuff exists in a vacuum. There's only so much reinvention of the wheel you can do in the conventional rock band format.
which is why in high school I started listening to industrial music, I was looking for the places rock bands wouldn't go (as much as I love straight up 4/4 rock)
| 138 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:54:28pm |
re: #137 WindUpBird
liar, you liked RATT and Dream Theatre, neither of which are very industrial :p
| 139 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:55:06pm |
re: #125 Killgore Trout
Zelpin didn't only rip off old blues masters, they ripped off people ripping off blues masters.
Led Zeppelin Examples of Plagiarism[Video]
But LZ plagiarized really well. That's the whole point. Even a critical darling with a kinda unique sound, like Radiohead, is clearly appropriating from decades of pop/rock forerunners.
| 140 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:55:40pm |
I saw The Who and their only Quadropheia tour in 2002-03 time frame (just realized I can't spell the word).
John Entwhistle's solo on 5:15 was awesome (may he RIP)
| 141 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:55:55pm |
re: #135 palomino
Right, none of this stuff exists in a vacuum. There's only so much reinvention of the wheel you can do in the conventional rock band format.
There are plenty of people who would disagree with that. Duffay, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Stravinsky, etc. Music isn't done evolving.
| 142 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:56:09pm |
re: #138 windsagio
liar, you liked RATT and Dream Theatre, neither of which are very industrial :p
I STILL LIKE RATT
| 143 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:56:50pm |
re: #138 windsagio
liar, you liked RATT and Dream Theatre, neither of which are very industrial :p
Just because I still listened to obnoxious whizzy prog and hair metal doesn't mean I wasn't also filling my head with SP, Ministry and early NIN :D
| 144 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:57:21pm |
re: #142 WindUpBird
I guess prog would fill the same role anywyas, getting away from the 4/4. (not that RATT is prog)
also I get you, listening to the weirdly disturbing kEVIN Cey ofbeat bloops/bleeps is certainly not 4/4 rock beat.
| 145 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:58:25pm |
re: #144 windsagio
I guess prog would fill the same role anywyas, getting away from the 4/4. (not that RATT is prog)
also I get you, listening to the weirdly disturbing kEVIN Cey ofbeat bloops/bleeps is certainly not 4/4 rock beat.
yeah, Key inhabits his own universe *_*
| 146 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:58:36pm |
re: #128 Stanley Sea
Windy had me trying to find their Journey song, I couldnt, but it was great watching all the old vids.
My MOM loves the Who. Bleah.
I hated the Who until I was about 30. Then some guy convinced me to give them a second serious listen. They've been one of my faves since. Very innovative in terms of hard rock, arena rock, punk, art rock, use of synths, etc. And incredible live. Watch the See Me Feel Me part of Woodstock. If that doesn't blow you away, then the Who definitely aren't for you.
| 147 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:58:52pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
My guess this is probably a legal defense for the cops. Kind of like miranda rights, suspects don't always really understand the implications of the speech but it's something that will hold up in court for the cops to cover their asses.
I understand what you think it is, and I agree that may be its intent, but I don't think it will hold up in court, and if it does, it shouldn't. We have precedent in this state that using pepper spray to coerce protesters to comply with police is excessive force.
| 149 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 7:59:55pm |
BTW, it's about the season for me to start dusting off my favorite ancient liturgical stuff....
"Ave Maris Stella" - Guillaume Dufay
| 153 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:02:42pm |
| 154 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:04:01pm |
re: #141 Killgore Trout
There are plenty of people who would disagree with that. Duffay, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Stravinsky, etc. Music isn't done evolving.
I didn't realize Mozart was part of a power trio. Did he play bass?
You'll notice I referred to the context of a rock band, certainly a more sonically limiting ensemble than a 100 piece orchestra. And I didn't say that music was done evolving, just that there's an incredible amount of cross-pollination in the world of pop music. Even the great classical composers you cite were influenced by their musical ancestors and the conventions of the day. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring may have sounded as if it were a virgin birth, with nothing musically paving its way. But of course that's not true. Even Stravinsky listened to other's compositions and incorporated elements into his own.
| 155 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:04:13pm |
I remember how we would trade albums in the 70s in college.
Prog rock was cheap then (Yes, Journey, Rush, Boston) - very few liked that shit.
Still holding my Stones and Who (and Kinks).
| 156 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:05:21pm |
re: #153 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Especially when they got Dio.
I love me some Sabbath with Dio, Dehumanizer is one of the all-time great overlooked metal records
HUUUUUGE!
| 157 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:05:47pm |
re: #156 WindUpBird
computer god = a riff to end civilizations
| 158 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:07:25pm |
re: #154 palomino
Even Stravinsky listened to other's compositions and incorporated elements into his own.
Exactly my point. We haven't seen the next step in evolution of music for about 50 years. It doesn't make any difference if the evolution comes from liturgical, secular, art or pop music. We just haven't seen a new reincarnation for quite some time. We're due.
| 159 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:07:36pm |
re: #154 palomino
Stravinsky's Rite of Spring may have sounded as if it were a virgin birth, with nothing musically paving its way. But of course that's not true. Even Stravinsky listened to other's compositions and incorporated elements into his own.
Dude.
The Rite of Spring is the most radical piece of music ever composed.
No question.
| 160 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:09:30pm |
re: #158 Killgore Trout
dude really?
I honestly have trouble telling if you actually believe this or not, because its kind of nuts.
| 161 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:10:12pm |
BTW, Bach was almost completely forgotten for about 150 years after his death. Some musicologist dug up his shit and made him famous.
| 162 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:10:13pm |
re: #160 windsagio
dude really?
I honestly have trouble telling if you actually believe this or not, because its kind of nuts.
it's textbook hahah
| 164 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:11:35pm |
re: #131 WindUpBird
Krugman:
yay!
Moral of the story from what I understand is, no matter how useful it may sound, don't link your currency to that of a another nation that doesn't directly answer to you in all ways. It's why America and Canada both call our currency "the dollar" but don't actually both start using the same system.
(I stand open to being corrected)
| 165 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:11:46pm |
re: #160 windsagio
dude really?
I honestly have trouble telling if you actually believe this or not, because its kind of nuts.
Killgore is correct.
Atonalism was the last frontier.
| 166 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:11:49pm |
re: #160 windsagio
dude really?
I honestly have trouble telling if you actually believe this or not, because its kind of nuts.
Masters degree in Music history, minor in early music. Nutty? Maybe, but not without scholarly references.
| 167 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:12:00pm |
re: #157 WindUpBird
computer god = a riff to end civilizations
For songs to end civilization, you need to include Slayer.
| 168 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:12:02pm |
OT. So let me get this straight. If Obama only mentions God once, at the end of a speech, it doesn't count? The ODS is just self-parody now. He mentioned God in his written address, in his Turkey Day speeches of 2009 and 2010, in every speech to Congress, most of his addresses to the public (eg, announcing bin Laden's death). But that's not good enough. WTF?
To the far right bloggers and their followers he's an atheist and a Muslim simultaneously. Kinda like he's a bumbling incompetent and an evil genius simultaneously. This kind of BS is why I don't look forward to the next year of campaigning. All the crazy shit we heard back in 2008 we're gonna hear again PLUS lots of new lunacy about how he only refers to God 95% of the time.
| 169 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:13:58pm |
re: #166 Killgore Trout
Masters degree in Music history, minor in early music. Nutty? Maybe, but not without scholarly references.
yeah and I had professors in art school who didn't know anything about how to use a computer for art, please 9_9
| 170 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:14:58pm |
re: #159 Linden Arden
Dude.
The Rite of Spring is the most radical piece of music ever composed.
No question.
Yes, but even it didn't come out of a vacuum. It had antecedents in musical history. Stravinsky rearranged those antecedents in a way that audiences initially responded to negatively.
John Cage's 4 33 is probably even more "radical" and certainly more controversial today than Stravinsky.
| 171 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:15:24pm |
re: #131 WindUpBird
Krugman:
yay!
There is a real problem being worked out in the international financial world - currencies vs. national responsibilities.
While I think we've beaten to death the idea that climate responses are indeed non-linear, we've not really talked about one of the original applications of advanced mathematics - economics. The human interaction network - that is the sum total of all our "work" and trades - also demonstrates non-linearities.
Let's hope this currency and debt stuff doesn't become some sort of crisis that spills over into national turmoil (especially in Europe.) The other night I posted a recent bloggingheads link to a discussion between Henry Farrell and a Greek academic which delved into the problem in Greece, and the guest was showing quite a bit concern about the inclusion of the neo-fascists into the new government.
| 172 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:15:28pm |
re: #166 Killgore Trout
Old is old lol.
I have this feeling that you're going to generalize it to the point of insanity to try to preserve your point, though.
| 173 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:16:20pm |
The newer music is never anything new or creative, its always copied from MY generation, which was of course the most brilliant and creative.
| 174 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:17:08pm |
re: #165 Linden Arden
Killgore is correct.
Atonalism was the last frontier.
there's more to music than just notes, jesus. 9_9
yes, THAt was the last frontier
it wasn't using a studio as an instrument
it wasn't electric instruments where the signal path could be altered in a million ways
it wasn't subtractive synthesis
it wasn't sampling
it wasn't pro-tools and digital workstations that can work with sound on the most minute scales
god you guys, I swear :D
| 175 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:17:32pm |
re: #173 windsagio
The newer music is never anything new or creative, its always copied from MY generation, which was of course the most brilliant and creative.
I seriously doubt that Killgore is of an age with Igor Stravinsky.
Although it would be interesting if he had also slept with Coco Chanel.
| 176 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:18:18pm |
re: #173 windsagio
The newer music is never anything new or creative, its always copied from MY generation, which was of course the most brilliant and creative.
Of course!
context orbits around the ego, always
meanwhile, I'm gonna go listen to Public Enemy :D
| 177 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:18:41pm |
re: #170 palomino
I don't know John Cage!
Damn, this board is fucking serious. I did not prepare well!
| 178 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:18:50pm |
re: #173 windsagio
It's a truism that almost every artistic work is derivative. Some are just more obvious than others.
| 179 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:19:02pm |
re: #171 freetoken
There is a real problem being worked out in the international financial world - currencies vs. national responsibilities.
While I think we've beaten to death the idea that climate responses are indeed non-linear, we've not really talked about one of the original applications of advanced mathematics - economics. The human interaction network - that is the sum total of all our "work" and trades - also demonstrates non-linearities.
Let's hope this currency and debt stuff doesn't become some sort of crisis that spills over into national turmoil (especially in Europe.) The other night I posted a recent bloggingheads link to a discussion between Henry Farrell and a Greek academic which delved into the problem in Greece, and the guest was showing quite a bit concern about the inclusion of the neo-fascists into the new government.
A major economic downturn in Europe brings to into power people with fascist leanings....
Everything old is new again....
///Whoopee...
| 180 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:19:11pm |
re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist
he said the last 50 years tho, I bet he's old enough for that :p
Its a classic boomer position to take, the timelines match up too perfectly :p
~~~
Also, WUB hit it on the head. Sampling has added an entirely unique and new way of making music.
| 181 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:19:32pm |
re: #158 Killgore Trout
Exactly my point. We haven't seen the next step in evolution of music for about 50 years. It doesn't make any difference if the evolution comes from liturgical, secular, art or pop music. We just haven't seen a new reincarnation for quite some time. We're due.
But at the time you hear this "reincarnation" what will signal it as such? The evolution doesn't come in giant leaps once a century...it's a constant process that occasionally produces something that sounds "new" (Beatles, Sex Pistols, Led Zep, Nirvana, Radiohead, etc.) but really is reformulation rather than true reinvention.
| 182 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:20:30pm |
re: #164 jamesfirecat
Moral of the story from what I understand is, no matter how useful it may sound, don't link your currency to that of a another nation that doesn't directly answer to you in all ways. It's why America and Canada both call our currency "the dollar" but don't actually both start using the same system.
(I stand open to being corrected)
One nation doesn't have to actually answer to the other, but they do have to have similar economies, social, tax collection, health and benefits policies and, especially, retirement ages.
| 184 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:22:41pm |
re: #181 palomino
But at the time you hear this "reincarnation" what will signal it as such? The evolution doesn't come in giant leaps once a century...it's a constant process that occasionally produces something that sounds "new" (Beatles, Sex Pistols, Led Zep, Nirvana, Radiohead, etc.) but really is reformulation rather than true reinvention.
Are you intentionally ignoring electronic music?
because that's literally the definition of reinvention
| 185 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:22:43pm |
Shit, my wife's screaming at me to come watch some shitty movie with her. I'd rather talk about music, Obama, even OWS, but I'm out for tonite. Enjoy all.
| 186 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:24:04pm |
re: #180 windsagio
he said the last 50 years tho, I bet he's old enough for that :p
Its a classic boomer position to take, the timelines match up too perfectly :p
~~~
Also, WUB hit it on the head. Sampling has added an entirely unique and new way of making music.
But it's not music, because black people like it
sorta like rap
sorta like blues and jazz back in the day
| 187 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:24:23pm |
re: #180 windsagio
he said the last 50 years tho, I bet he's old enough for that :p
Its a classic boomer position to take, the timelines match up too perfectly :p
~~~
Also, WUB hit it on the head. Sampling has added an entirely unique and new way of making music.
Eh, that's just the boomers. They did everything first and best. When they were children, a nation moved to the suburbs and started commuting so they would have lawns and good schools. When they discovered sex, there was a sexual revolution.
It's just part of being a huge generation birn in a post-war boom.
| 188 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:24:45pm |
John Zorn's COBRA was the last frontier LOL:
| 189 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:25:57pm |
re: #184 WindUpBird
Are you intentionally ignoring electronic music?
because that's literally the definition of reinvention
Do you mean pop electronica or experimental music?
I'd say even electronic music has influences that run back to other musical forms. And even within electronic there's probably been a slow evolution, just as in other genres.
| 190 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:26:08pm |
re: #185 palomino
Shit, my wife's screaming at me to come watch some shitty movie with her. I'd rather talk about music, Obama, even OWS, but I'm out for tonite. Enjoy all.
My parents saw "J. Edgar" today.
My dad's a bit of an FBI buff, so he enjoyed it.
Apparently they sort of soft-shoe around his relationship with Tolson in the movie.
| 191 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:27:26pm |
re: #188 goddamnedfrank
John Zorn's COBRA was the last frontier LOL:
[Video]
Now I have a Zorn CD we would put on while we x-ed called the Big Gun Down - based on music by Morroconi.
| 192 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:27:37pm |
re: #189 palomino
by that logic no music has ever been revolutionary for the last thousand years.
Electronic music invented entirely new soundforms that were previously impossible. If that's not revolutionary change in music, what is?
| 193 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:28:14pm |
re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist
My parents saw "J. Edgar" today.
My dad's a bit of an FBI buff, so he enjoyed it.
Apparently they sort of soft-shoe around his relationship with Tolson in the movie.
I saw an episode of Mr. Ed the other day, circa 1958. Clint Eastwood was the guest star. What a long strange amazing trip that guy has had through Hollywood, with a little detour to Italy.
| 194 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:31:15pm |
re: #192 windsagio
by that logic no music has ever been revolutionary for the last thousand years.
Electronic music invented entirely new soundforms that were previously impossible. If that's not revolutionary change in music, what is?
repeated for emphasis
| 195 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:32:31pm |
re: #179 jamesfirecat
And people are concerned about the President's mentions of god. This itself is probably a replay.
| 196 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:33:52pm |
re: #192 windsagio
by that logic no music has ever been revolutionary for the last thousand years.
Electronic music invented entirely new soundforms that were previously impossible. If that's not revolutionary change in music, what is?
this conversation has become the equivalent of arguing whether superman could beat up K.I.T.T.
| 197 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:34:36pm |
Our favorite X music was the Lords of Acid though.
Chicks love Lords of Acid.
| 198 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:34:46pm |
re: #195 Stanley Sea
"God" and nationalism have gone hand in hand in this country since, well, since the beginning. I keep emphasizing that America has always been a extremely religious nation, and only in recent decades have we seen the emergence of the non-religious as anything to be noticed.
| 199 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:34:51pm |
re: #192 windsagio
by that logic no music has ever been revolutionary for the last thousand years.
Electronic music invented entirely new soundforms that were previously impossible. If that's not revolutionary change in music, what is?
OK, OK, it's revolutionary.
My initial point was that, within the conventions of contemporary pop music, it's unrealistic to expect something to spring forth that sounds as if it has no antecedents in music history. Pop music is about reworking formulas, making them fresh for a new audience but simultaneously accessible enough that most listeners will have a framework within which to appreciate it. Thus it's specious to say that "band X sucks because they just recycled shit."
| 200 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:35:20pm |
re: #196 WindUpBird
The thing that makes it frustrating is I'm avoiding things that totally changed popular music and public perception of music (ala rap) because I just know theres gonna be some persnickety 'well actually its like such and such old traditional music' or some crap.
| 201 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:36:25pm |
re: #199 palomino
Again, in popular music, electronic music, rap, and anything that uses heavy sampling are all essentially revolutionary.
| 202 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:36:38pm |
re: #2 Linden Arden
Trivia question - How did "Bohemian" become associated with a free wheeling hedon-filled lifestyle?
bohemia was an old name for the area now known czech republic. in the early 19th century gypsies from there, called bohemians by the parisians, lived in rundown neighborhoods in paris. these were ideal places for artists to live cheap, and carefree gypsies and starving hippie artists became associated in the minds of the respectable by the 1840s, and one of them named Murger wrote the book that the opera la boheme was based on in 1845
| 203 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:40:38pm |
re: #201 windsagio
Again, in popular music, electronic music, rap, and anything that uses heavy sampling are all essentially revolutionary.
Not really, especially if your only changing the aesthetics. Just like the Rockin' Robbin/Smells like teen Spirit video I posted upthread. They're both essentially the same song (Harmony, melody, tonally, structurally, etc)with and updated appearance to appeal to a new audience. Nothing musically new.
| 204 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:40:55pm |
re: #192 windsagio
by that logic no music has ever been revolutionary for the last thousand years.
Electronic music invented entirely new soundforms that were previously impossible. If that's not revolutionary change in music, what is?
regular old harmony - more than just a melody by itself or accompanied by only by a drone (a "ground bass") as with bagpipes, was revolutionary in the 14th century. a pope at the time complained "what the hell does anybody need all those extra notes for?"
| 205 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:41:20pm |
re: #202 engineer dog
bohemia was an old name for the area now known czech republic. in the early 19th century gypsies from there, called bohemians by the parisians, lived in rundown neighborhoods in paris. these were ideal places for artists to live cheap, and carefree gypsies and starving hippie artists became associated in the minds of the respectable by the 1840s, and one of them named Murger wrote the book that the opera la boheme was based on in 1845
| 206 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:41:52pm |
re: #203 Killgore Trout
Nirvana is neither Rap, nor electronic, nor sampling.
-1 for not actually bothering to read before you post.
| 207 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:42:52pm |
re: #206 windsagio
Nirvana is neither Rap, nor electronic, nor sampling.
-1 for not actually bothering to read before you post.
It's also neither Holy, Roman or an Empire.
| 208 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:42:53pm |
re: #201 windsagio
Again, in popular music, electronic music, rap, and anything that uses heavy sampling are all essentially revolutionary.
But isn't my point about Nirvana apropos here? Rap was revolutionary, BUT it also explicitly acknowledged earlier musical forms precisely through its heavy use of sampling. Nirvana did some of the same "recycling" in a different manner. In neither case does this diminish the music.
| 209 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:42:54pm |
re: #206 windsagio
Nirvana is neither Rap, nor electronic, nor sampling.
You are neither getting the point nor understanding what I'm saying.
| 210 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:43:21pm |
re: #173 windsagio
The newer music is never anything new or creative, its always copied from MY generation, which was of course the most brilliant and creative.
well, that's obvious
uh, "pops"
| 211 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:45:09pm |
re: #208 palomino
Its like saying nothing written is original because we're all using the same letters, and often the same words and grammar.
| 212 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:46:23pm |
"minimalist" music comes after atonalism in modern classical music styles, and Music For 18 Musicians by Steve Reich is widely considered its masterpiece and is imho a brilliant piece of music
| 213 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:46:33pm |
re: #209 Killgore Trout
I think what you're saying is that you're trying to dodge the fact that you're wrong by focusing on an inappropriate comparison to the actual point.
This is just like the OWS thing. You can't allow yourself to be wrong, so you dig in to this absurd degree when challenged.
| 214 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:47:14pm |
re: #213 windsagio
I think what you're saying is that you're trying to dodge the fact that you're wrong by focusing on an inappropriate comparison to the actual point.
This is just like the OWS thing. You can't allow yourself to be wrong, so you dig in to this absurd degree when challenged.
Internet arguing 101
| 215 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:47:34pm |
When we get a new musical revolution you'll know it. It's not going to sound like Jackson Five or Nirvana. It's going to be something with unfamiliar rhythyms, harmony, tonality and structure. You'll know it when you see it and it will probably sound something like this....
Chalka Chalka Re
| 216 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:47:44pm |
re: #198 freetoken
"God" and nationalism have gone hand in hand in this country since, well, since the beginning. I keep emphasizing that America has always been a extremely religious nation, and only in recent decades have we seen the emergence of the non-religious as anything to be noticed.
Amazing. We live in interesting times. Just like our parents and grandparents I guess.
| 217 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:47:44pm |
| 218 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:48:26pm |
| 219 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:48:40pm |
I love Lester Bowie, btw.re: #212 engineer dog
"minimalist" music comes after atonalism in modern classical music styles, and Music For 18 Musicians by Steve Reich is widely considered its masterpiece and is imho a brilliant piece of music
How do we know Minimalism is just not repetitive tribal music?
| 220 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:48:50pm |
re: #216 Stanley Sea
Amazing. We live in interesting times. Just like our parents and grandparents I guess.
Have there ever been boring times?
| 221 |
windsagio Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:50:13pm |
re: #215 Killgore Trout
oh you retard.
Just because you don't listen to music with unusual rythyms/harmony/tonality/structure doesn't mean its not out there.
Theres' plenty of that, several of which have been linked this very thread.
And with that I'm out, at some point the stubbornness quits being fun to deal with.
| 222 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:51:35pm |
re: #211 windsagio
Its like saying nothing written is original because we're all using the same letters, and often the same words and grammar.
I'm not taking such an absolutist position at all. I got started on this tangent because I was disagreeing with someone's take that Nirvana is just recycled shit. Virtually all art owes some debt to a predecessor. But that doesn't mean it's crap or unoriginal. I actually think Nirvana helped revolutionize, or at least revitalize, rock over the last two decades, despite their brief life span.
| 223 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:51:43pm |
re: #221 windsagio
And with that I'm out, at some point the stubbornness quits being fun to deal with.
Sorry about ur butthurt. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning. Here's your hat, what's your hurry?
| 224 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:51:53pm |
| 225 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:52:43pm |
re: #224 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Sunday afternoon, 3:15.
Last Tuesday was pretty dull. I took a nap.
| 226 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:53:14pm |
re: #212 engineer dog
"minimalist" music comes after atonalism in modern classical music styles, and Music For 18 Musicians by Steve Reich is widely considered its masterpiece and is imho a brilliant piece of music
Reich's Six Marimbas is also a great piece of sustained tension and slow buildup. I played it for my brother once; it made him so uncomfortable he got up and left the room.
| 227 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:53:43pm |
re: #219 Linden Arden
I love Lester Bowie, btw.
How do we know Minimalism is just not repetitive tribal music?
a lot of it certainly resembles tribal types of drumming quite a bit, but on the other hand every piece of music is the same, but different
| 229 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:57:53pm |
re: #222 palomino
I'm not taking such an absolutist position at all. I got started on this tangent because I was disagreeing with someone's take that Nirvana is just recycled shit. Virtually all art owes some debt to a predecessor. But that doesn't mean it's crap or unoriginal. I actually think Nirvana helped revolutionize, or at least revitalize, rock over the last two decades, despite their brief life span.
Soundgarden was the better band.
| 230 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:58:08pm |
re: #221 windsagio
oh you retard.
Retards don't like that anymore. We like to be called special now. Get with it.
| 231 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:58:16pm |
i'm obsessed with music of all kinds and know about the usual classifications and harmonic & etc analysis and stuff, but to me the most useful system of classifying music is this:
music i like
music i don't like
| 232 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:59:08pm |
re: #229 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Soundgarden was the better band.
yeah, and their superunknown was the greatest of the grunge albums, imo. but nirvana got there first and helped open the flood gates.
| 233 |
Interesting Times Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:59:19pm |
re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist
Have there ever been boring times?
Yes, any time there wasn't anything particularly dramatic happening in your life :) Multiplied by several 100 million people, of course.
What makes these times - and the humanity's most likely future - "interesting" is that they'll represent the first time we had wonderful stuff and potential beyond our wildest dreams, and stupidly, maddeningly, threw it all away.
Just imagine going from today's technology to a dark ages or even prehistoric scenario in about 100 years. Civilizations may rise and fall, but there's absolutely no parallel to that degree of change in all of human history.
| 234 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 8:59:48pm |
...and now it's time for the movie and i gotta go!
later!
| 235 |
palomino Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:00:11pm |
shit, i'm about to get pepper sprayed by my wife. g'nite all.
| 236 |
Digital Display Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:09:21pm |
Some sportswriters are the best in the world..You know like Grantland Rice
They bring sports together with life...I present you with Steve Rushin's intro about sports yesterday..
Life is full of empty thank yous, as when a recorded voice from the cable company says, "Thank you for holding," or an airline cancels a flight and says, "Thank you for your understanding," or when that fascinating account of your gall bladder surgery is met with silence, followed by "Thanks for sharing."
These aren't expressions of gratitude. They're Ty Webb in Caddyshack saying "Thank you very little." They're my children conceding a "Thank you" in exchange for M & Ms -- the way a seal claps in exchange for herring. Hank Williams Jr. wasn't really grateful when he sang "Thanks, thanks a lot, I've got a broken heart, that's all I got." But then "thank you" has a thousand shades of meaning, from grateful to hateful.
Which brings us to Thanksgiving, a wonderful holiday that sometimes resembles the tip jar on a coffee shop counter. Tip jars solicit gratuities even when the customer isn't grateful. If you throw in a couple of bucks, it's not the worker who is filled with gratitude, it's the tip jar, on which has been scrawled a pre-emptive "Thank you!" This is a remarkable act of ventriloquy -- a cup speaking on behalf of a person -- but it's not really an expression of thanks. For the person receiving the gratuity, and the person giving it, gratitude never enters the equation. What you have is an act of mutual indifference.
Read more: [Link: sportsillustrated.cnn.com...]
| 237 |
Linden Arden Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:10:07pm |
| 238 |
jaunte Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:17:59pm |
My count of relations conversed with/shared meals for the past two days is now up to 22/5. I'm not used to spending so much time with my shoes on, paying attention.
| 239 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:23:39pm |
re: #232 palomino
yeah, and their superunknown was the greatest of the grunge albums, imo. but nirvana got there first and helped open the flood gates.
Pearl Jam remains overrated.
| 241 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:25:11pm |
re: #232 palomino
yeah, and their superunknown was the greatest of the grunge albums, imo. but nirvana got there first and helped open the flood gates.
I think badmotorfinger DESTROYS Superunknown, much as I like it
Superunknown is a pop record, BMF is a slab of massive sludge and noise in the best way
| 242 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:27:06pm |
re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Pearl Jam remains overrated.
Ten is not an overrated album, but that's because Ten is essentially what's left of Mother Love Bone
The rest of PJ's catalog never grabbed me :P
| 243 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:27:49pm |
re: #232 palomino
yeah, and their superunknown was the greatest of the grunge albums, imo. but nirvana got there first and helped open the flood gates.
and actually, the greatest of the grunge albums is Melvins' Houdini :D
| 244 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:33:08pm |
re: #242 WindUpBird
Ten is not an overrated album, but that's because Ten is essentially what's left of Mother Love Bone
The rest of PJ's catalog never grabbed me :P
They've got some good songs, but over all, eh.
| 245 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:34:24pm |
re: #243 WindUpBird
and actually, the greatest of the grunge albums is Melvins' Houdini :D
And Anthrax remains the greatest thrasher band.
Persistence of Time = best album
| 246 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:48:38pm |
Well, using the language of our gun-obsessed culture, I "pulled the trigger" on that G-Force portable drive from Apple. The price (even with tax, which Apple charges) was $40 cheaper than anything I could find at Amazon.
And, I have a bunch of drives in the "later" list at Amazon, and I've been notified that they've all gone up in price. Certainly it's going to be hard to find good deals on hard drives until the Thailand mess is cleaned up.
Irony is... I can't print the Apple webpage with my order details. Trying to do so causes both Safari and Firefox to crash - I suspect the underlying problem has to do with the PDF generator in OSX.
| 247 |
freetoken Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:50:42pm |
re: #240 jaunte
Editorial choices: [Link: twitpic.com...]
Why do you want American's to feel bad. Don't you know that we are God's chosen nation and thus don't have to worry about what goes on "over there"?
| 248 |
Kronocide Fri, Nov 25, 2011 9:52:57pm |
Top 15 Oxymorons
1. virtual reality
2. original copy
3. old news
4. act naturally
5. pretty ugly
6. living dead
7. jumbo shrimp
8. rolling stop
9. constant variable
10. exact estimate
11. paid volunteers
12. civil war
13. sound of silence
14. clever fool
15. only choice
| 250 |
prairiefire Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:12:56pm |
My daughter's watching Fargo for the first time. She's enjoying it.
| 251 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:16:48pm |
re: #250 prairiefire
My daughter's watching Fargo for the first time. She's enjoying it.
The complete silence scene is great.
| 252 |
prairiefire Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:29:59pm |
"So, you had sex with the little guy, then."
Steve Buscemi in the wood chipper at the moment.
| 253 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:40:16pm |
re: #78 windsagio
I read an interesting article somewhere which I can't find how for 30 years (basically from Chicago convention to WTO seattle) the police had adapted the technique of handling protesters gently and how amazing it was that in the 10 years since we've come to accept this "SWAT/Body Armor/Club/Pepper Spray" technique as the norm.
Take your pick:
[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]
[Link: www.wired.com...]
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
| 254 |
Big Joe Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:44:09pm |
The shocking truth about the crackdown on Occupy
The Guardian may be on to something.
| 255 |
darthstar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:45:26pm |
re: #248 BigPapa
Top 15 Oxymorons
1. virtual reality
2. original copy
3. old news
4. act naturally
5. pretty ugly
6. living dead
7. jumbo shrimp
8. rolling stop
9. constant variable
10. exact estimate
11. paid volunteers
12. civil war
13. sound of silence
14. clever fool
15. only choice
Central Intelligence Agency
Republican Jobs Plan
| 256 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:50:13pm |
re: #254 mracb
Enh, it's Naomi Wolf…
| 257 |
Kronocide Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:52:59pm |
re: #254 mracb
The shocking truth about the crackdown on Occupy
The Guardian may be on to something.
Look, it's a gaggle of leftist miscreants deserving of a few good whacks and spritz of capsicum that might convince them a job is a much better option. They're less popular than the tea party!
/
| 258 |
Big Joe Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:53:10pm |
| 259 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 10:57:45pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
My guess this is probably a legal defense for the cops. Kind of like miranda rights, suspects don't always really understand the implications of the speech but it's something that will hold up in court for the cops to cover their asses.
Miranda warnings are there for the prosecution, so they are constitutionally allowed to use the statements of those arrested by the cops. It's not for the cops to "cover their asses". Also, you do not magically lose liability for a criminal act if you recite some lawyer incantation prior to committing it, cop or no cop. Same thing with "I was just following orders".
| 260 |
Lidane Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:03:01pm |
re: #254 mracb
The shocking truth about the crackdown on Occupy
The Guardian may be on to something.
Except that ABL over at Balloon Juice has pointed out that everything in Naomi Wolf's editorial was debunked already:
[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]
| 261 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:08:44pm |
I've forgotten what a pain in the ass it is to paint urban cammie patterns.
| 262 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:09:00pm |
re: #260 Lidane
Except that ABL over at Balloon Juice has pointed out that everything in Naomi Wolf's editorial was debunked already:
[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]
Don't surprise me none.
Woman went absolutely nuts sometime during the Bush administration.
| 263 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:12:04pm |
re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist
Don't surprise me none.
Woman went absolutely nuts sometime during the Bush administration.
Oh, looks like it originated with examiner.com.
Same outfit that got the 'Los Zetas have invaded Laredo' thing going. Apparently they do this for the left as well as the right.
Good to know.
| 264 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:12:36pm |
re: #164 jamesfirecat
Moral of the story from what I understand is, no matter how useful it may sound, don't link your currency to that of a another nation that doesn't directly answer to you in all ways. It's why America and Canada both call our currency "the dollar" but don't actually both start using the same system.
(I stand open to being corrected)
Well, "all ways" is exaggerated (even within the U.S., not everyone and everything answers in "all ways" to the Federal Reserve, for instance). But yeah, the monetary union of the Euro from the get-go involved too much national sovereignty and subsequent decentralization of decision-making (both parts of the lead-up to the crisis as well as the inability to deal with it).
| 265 |
Lidane Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:13:45pm |
re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist
Don't surprise me none.
Woman went absolutely nuts sometime during the Bush administration.
She hasn't been any better during Obama's time in office either. I seem to recall Naomi Wolf pulling out the Hitler card in reference to Obama some time ago.
As much as I loathe the anti-OWS propaganda of everyone involved being a violent, drug-addled Marxist trust fund hippie who supports rape and stabby stab, I also don't care for the hyperbole on the pro-OWS side either.
There's enough legitimate abuses, like the UC Davis incident, to point at. There's no reason to start getting all Alex Jones and finding government conspiracies around every corner.
| 266 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:15:59pm |
re: #263 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh, looks like it originated with examiner.com.
Same outfit that got the 'Los Zetas have invaded Laredo' thing going. Apparently they do this for the left as well as the right.
Good to know.
The article by Brett Stevens the SPLC talks about here was originally published by Examiner. It was subsequently deleted…
| 267 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:21:20pm |
re: #266 000G
The article by Brett Stevens the SPLC talks about here was originally published by Examiner. It was subsequently deleted…
Original URL: [Link: www.examiner.com...]
Brett Stevens still writes for the Examiner, though: [Link: www.examiner.com...]
His own website is the nauseatingly moronic [Link: www.amerika.org...]
| 268 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:24:19pm |
Brett Stevens' white-nationalist take on OWS: [Link: www.examiner.com...]
| 269 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:33:25pm |
re: #177 Linden Arden
I don't know John Cage!
Damn, this board is fucking serious. I did not prepare well!
All you need to know about John Cage:
[Link: fromnowherehere.blogspot.com...]
| 270 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:40:10pm |
Morning all!
Anyone get any really great buys on Black Friday?
LOL
| 271 |
engineer cat Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:42:39pm |
the birds and insects filled up all the air with their songs
the moon pulled the wind along
darkness held together the rest
it was all so soft and comfortable
it was so long ago
that there were no past times then to torture us
just looking into the satisfied night trying to find our future
| 272 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:42:58pm |
re: #270 ggt
Morning all!
Anyone get any really great buys on Black Friday?
LOL
I had the majority of my shopping done weeks ago.
| 273 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:44:22pm |
re: #272 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I had the majority of my shopping done weeks ago.
Yeah, me neither.
Had even less fun setting up xmas decorations in the house. I shouldn't say that. I'm just looking at the mess I have to clean-up tomorrow.
| 274 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:46:09pm |
re: #247 freetoken
Why do you want American's to feel bad. Don't you know that we are God's chosen nation and thus don't have to worry about what goes on "over there"?
That's right, censorship isn't only for China. . . only here, it's called:
"What sells"
| 275 |
Kragar Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:47:22pm |
re: #273 ggt
Yeah, me neither.
Had even less fun setting up xmas decorations in the house. I shouldn't say that. I'm just looking at the mess I have to clean-up tomorrow.
Hell, I haven't even left the house in 2 days. Sleeping and eating with nothing to do. Glorious.
| 276 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:47:50pm |
re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hell, I haven't even left the house in 2 days. Sleeping and eating with nothing to do. Glorious.
Ah, PJ days.
I love those.
| 277 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:49:09pm |
re: #215 Killgore Trout
More a fan of Jaan Pehechan Ho:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHA_S48KRrI
(hm, LGF won't parse link to embed)
Also, re: the earlier discussion: Truth is that technology itself has become revolutionary, at least since the completion of the industrial revolution. It's no wonder where and how pop music originated.
Speaking of revolutionary techniques: Mashups!
| 278 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:49:57pm |
I'm looking around at my house and at the Xmas tree and thinking, "What do I tell my family I want for xmas?"
I already have it: home and family.
But they will want to wrap something . . .
| 279 |
Big Joe Fri, Nov 25, 2011 11:53:27pm |
re: #278 ggt
I'm looking around at my house and at the Xmas tree and thinking, "What do I tell my family I want for xmas?"
I already have it: home and family.
But they will want to wrap something . . .
You're a female if I recall, heaven help your husband.
| 280 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:08:15am |
Apparently, even the Business Software Alliance (BSA, the RIAA of the software world) backs off supporting the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA):
Business Software Alliance Withdraws Support for Stop Online Piracy Act
The Business Software Alliance (BSA), which initially supported SOPA, has decided the legislation goes too far.
"Valid and important questions have been raised about the bill. It is intended to get at the worst of the worst offenders. As it now stands, however, it could sweep in more than just truly egregious actors," BSA president and CEO Robert Holleyman wrote on the BSA blog.
SOPA would enable the U.S. government to block access to websites internationally. This not only includes the .com domain, but also .net and .org, domain names which are used by millions of organizations outside the legal jurisdiction of the U.S.
"Due process, free speech, and privacy are rights that cannot be compromised. And the security of networks and communications is indispensable to a thriving Internet economy. Some observers have raised reasonable questions about whether certain SOPA provisions might have unintended consequences in these areas," Holleyman wrote.
Such a dramatic turnaround seems to be part of a growing realization that copyright infringement legislation is going too far. At the weekend, European Union Digital Agenda Commissioner Neelie Kroes said,"Citizens increasingly hear the word copyright and hate what is behind it. Many see the current system as a tool to punish and withhold, not a tool to recognize and reward."
[Link: www.pcworld.com...]
| 281 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:12:26am |
This might interest Killgore:
Reuters Exclusive: Lax security at Nasdaq helped hackers
(Reuters) - A federal investigation into last year's cyber attack on Nasdaq OMX Group found surprisingly lax security practices that made the exchange operator an easy target for hackers, people with knowledge of the probe said. The sources did not want to be identified because the matter is classified.
The investigators found that Nasdaq's basic computer architecture was sound, which kept its trading systems safe from the hackers, according to four people who were briefed on the FBI probe or had knowledge of Nasdaq's efforts to improve its security with the help of external consultants.
The sources, however, said the investigators were surprised to find some computers with out-of-date software, misconfigured firewalls and uninstalled security patches that could have fixed known "bugs" that hackers could exploit. Versions of Microsoft Corp's Windows 2003 Server operating system, for example, had not been properly updated.
While Nasdaq is not the first company to allow software updates to lapse inadvertently, investigators were surprised that the exchange operator was not more vigilant about what the industry calls "cyber hygiene" given its importance to financial systems.
"This was easy pickings," said one person familiar with Nasdaq's security practices. "You would have thought they would be like a cyber Fort Knox, but that wasn't the case at all."
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
| 282 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:15:56am |
re: #280 000G
SOPA would've done nothing to stop piracy. Only hurt legitimate customers.
Like all DRM on software does.
| 283 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:17:18am |
Wow. Raining in Austin.
Actual water from the sky. Yay!
| 284 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:19:39am |
Newest Occupy Austin tactic to engage police:
| 285 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:20:55am |
re: #284 000G
Newest Occupy tactic to engage police:
She said she'd get a crush; she didn't promise she'd actually get engaged to any of them.
//clearly, this works well, though
| 286 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:22:31am |
re: #285 SanFranciscoZionist
She said she'd get a crush; she didn't promise she'd actually get engaged to any of them.
//clearly, this works well, though
Austin always has been a creative city.
| 287 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:22:41am |
Clearly all who shop on Black Friday are bad, bad people!
| 288 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:24:33am |
re: #287 Varek Raith
Clearly all who shop on Black Friday are bad, bad people!
It's all the fault of the OWM (Occupy Wal-Mart) movement.
| 289 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:25:41am |
re: #287 Varek Raith
Clearly all who shop on Black Friday are bad, bad people!
I would question their judgement.
The Vancouver paper ran a headline: "Violence Mars U.S. Black Friday".
I was mortified. Really, we need to look bad in front of the Canadians?
| 290 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:25:59am |
re: #287 Varek Raith
Clearly all who shop on Black Friday are bad, bad people!
Soon, KT will have to hate all of American society.
| 291 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:26:40am |
re: #290 000G
Soon, KT will have to hate all of the American society.
DESTROY ALL HUMANS!
*Fun game, btw*
| 292 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:29:09am |
re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist
I would question their judgement.
The Vancouver paper ran a headline: "Violence Mars U.S. Black Friday".
I was mortified. Really, we need to look bad in front of the Canadians?
I'm most concerned that the overwhelming majority of these happened at Wal Mart.
| 293 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:29:29am |
re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist
I would question their judgement.
The Vancouver paper ran a headline: "Violence Mars U.S. Black Friday".
I was mortified. Really, we need to look bad in front of the Canadians?
Toque wearing, socialized medicine, heavily regulated banking sector bastards!
| 294 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:30:17am |
I am glad I only have a couple of hundred bucks with these guys.
Suddenly Commerzbank Is At The Center Of The Storm, As It Tries To Dump Billions Onto German Taxpayers
Commerzbank is considering spinning off its holdings of "crisis-hit" sovereign debt into a government-supported "bad bank," the FT reports.
The bank will be forced to raised nearly $4 billion to meet more stringent EU bank regulations, and it's facing problems doing that in the open market.
The move would cause German taxpayers to shoulder the burden of sovereign bonds worth $17.2 billion.
[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]
Btw, they already did this "internal bad bank" business in 2009 with their "portfolio restructuring unit": [Link: www.efinancialnews.com...]
| 295 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:30:33am |
re: #293 austin_blue
Toque wearing, socialized medicine, heavily regulated banking sector bastards!
Who apparently don't celebrate the day after Thanksgiving being tased in the aisles at Wal-Mart.
| 296 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:31:31am |
re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist
Who apparently don't celebrate the day after Thanksgiving being tased in the aisles at Wal-Mart.
I know they used to hit people with whips in the street during Lupercalia. I wonder if being tased could become a fertility ritual?
| 297 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:32:20am |
re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist
I know they used to hit people with whips in the street during Lupercalia. I wonder if being tased could become a fertility ritual?
O_o
| 298 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:33:02am |
re: #292 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm most concerned that the overwhelming majority of these happened at Wal Mart.
Why?
| 299 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:35:19am |
re: #298 000G
Why?
It suggests to me that there may be something the store is doing that's causing this level of violence and chaos. Shoppers weren't acting out at Target stores to the same degree. Why?
| 300 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:35:43am |
re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist
Who apparently don't celebrate the day after Thanksgiving being tased in the aisles at Wal-Mart.
I know! What's wrong with the poor ignorant fucks? Do they really think that, Black Friday being ingrained into the American consumer's mind as an "event", that retailers might not actually give the sheeple the "lowest prices of the season"?
How could they possibly think that?!?!
| 301 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:38:48am |
My mother always asks if we're going to the Black Friday sales.
Since she would no sooner go to a Black Friday sale than attend a Black Mass, and I have never gone either, I have no idea why she asks.
And my husband handles crowds worse than she does, and she know that.
It's a mystery.
| 302 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:40:57am |
The gentler side of Wal-Mart.
| 303 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:41:14am |
re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist
It suggests to me that there may be something the store is doing that's causing this level of violence and chaos. Shoppers weren't acting out at Target stores to the same degree. Why?
Might it relate to WMs clientele and the average intelligence thereof?
Just noting.
| 304 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:41:28am |
re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist
It suggests to me that there may be something the store is doing that's causing this level of violence and chaos. Shoppers weren't acting out at Target stores to the same degree. Why?
| 305 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:42:53am |
re: #303 austin_blue
Might it relate to WMs clientele and the average intelligence thereof?
Just noting.
Expecting explanations including welfare and minorities, soon.
| 306 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:45:54am |
re: #304 000G
Here in the States, it's the "special" kids who ride the short buses to school.
Which is, of course terribly un-PC of me to note. But this is even worse:
[Link: www.theonion.com...]
| 307 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:47:02am |
As a foreigner, I demand a Wikipedia article on "competitive shopping" in order to learn about this new American tradition!
| 308 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:48:32am |
re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist
It suggests to me that there may be something the store is doing that's causing this level of violence and chaos. Shoppers weren't acting out at Target stores to the same degree. Why?
In the areas in which I've lived, I've noticed Target and Walmart attract a differnt sort of customer AND a) Target's aisles are roomier and the shelves aren't as high as the ones at Walmart. Basically, it is less of a maze.
Prices are higher at Target . .
| 309 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:49:03am |
re: #303 austin_blue
Might it relate to WMs clientele and the average intelligence thereof?
Just noting.
Do you really think the average Wal-Mart Black Friday crowd is notably less intelligent than the average Target Black Friday crowd?
I'm giving this some thought.
| 310 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:49:38am |
| 311 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:49:41am |
Well, that's it for me. Night all.
SFZ and 000G, take care and sweet dreams.
| 312 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:49:49am |
re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist
Do you really think the average Wal-Mart Black Friday crowd is notably less intelligent than the average Target Black Friday crowd?
I'm giving this some thought.
less well dressed anyway . . . .
:0
| 313 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:50:04am |
re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist
Do you really think the average Wal-Mart Black Friday crowd is notably less intelligent than the average Target Black Friday crowd?
I'm giving this some thought.
Yes.
| 314 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:50:11am |
re: #311 austin_blue
Well, that's it for me. Night all.
SFZ and 000G, take care and sweet dreams.
left me out
:(
/
| 315 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:50:33am |
re: #307 000G
As a foreigner, I demand a Wikipedia article on "competitive shopping" in order to learn about this new American tradition!
I mean, I know some fierce bargain shoppers, but even my BFF's mom never actually maced anyone.
| 316 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:50:44am |
| 317 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:52:03am |
re: #308 ggt
In the areas in which I've lived, I've noticed Target and Walmart attract a differnt sort of customer AND a) Target's aisles are roomier and the shelves aren't as high as the ones at Walmart. Basically, it is less of a maze.
Prices are higher at Target . .
I've only been two two Wal-Marts in my life, and the clientele looked pretty average to me at both. One in California, one in Louisiana. Wait, three. The third one was in Arkansas. My MILs would go to that one if they were bored with the Louisiana one. It looked exactly the same, though.
The physical set-up though--that could be part of it.
| 318 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:56:01am |
Now, someone was saying that a pregnant woman threatened to stab someone in line because they wouldn't let her go ahead.
I don't think it's wise to upset pregnant ladies. Their hormones are all out of whack, and their feet hurt.
| 319 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:00:15am |
re: #317 SanFranciscoZionist
I've only been two two Wal-Marts in my life, and the clientele looked pretty average to me at both. One in California, one in Louisiana. Wait, three. The third one was in Arkansas. My MILs would go to that one if they were bored with the Louisiana one. It looked exactly the same, though.
The physical set-up though--that could be part of it.
I think it would be pretty difficult to hide any "scene" in Target. In Walmart, it would be easier to do so and that might make anxious person feel more claustrophobic. Two carts can easily pass each other in Target aisles, not so easy in Walmart.
The decor is brighter and the departments are easily delineated by carpeting or tile in Target. It's easier to navigate all together.
I think interior design has a lot to do with shopper behavior, I learned a bit about it when I was in college.
The Walmart's by us have a lot of people "hanging-out" in the parking lot. Cop cars are routinely there.
| 320 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:00:49am |
| 321 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:04:51am |
Now that I think about it, the Target stores near us seem to build in areas that are easier for the "work" crowd to shop. They are near office complexes or in big strip mall areas. Easy in, easy out for the after work and lunch crowd.
Walmart doesn't seem to have a preferred location --except where they can get a tax break.
| 322 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:07:21am |
re: #308 ggt
Around here I haven't noticed any significant difference in prices between WalMart and Target. I avoid Walmart except a visit once a month to pick up some solution for contact lenses (which only Walmart carries locally at decent prices), but visit Target about once a week to pick up misc. stuff. The Targets do seem to be less crowded physically.
I remember way back when Target first popped onto the scene. The town I grew up in had an S.S. Kresge store (remember those?), and they transformed themselves into Kmart and built a huge (for that time) store on the edge of town. Kresge had been one of the two department stores in town, the other being J.C. Penny's. Sears and MonkeyWards just had catalog stores in town.
So Kmart and Target were sort of invented around the same time, and led the way to changes. This came right after someone had built a novel thing called a "shopping mall" on the edge of town, anchored by a real Sears store and a Penny's store. So I guess to compete Kresge's (which was still downtown and not in the new mall) had to do something as downtown started its long process of dying.
I never even heard of WalMart until after I had lived in California for a while, and never entered one until they built their first one in San Diego. So I grew up with Kresge/Kmart and Target as the discount department stores. Walmart still seems foreign to me and, even though this might seem biased, Walmart still strikes me as "Southern" in nature.
| 323 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:11:29am |
re: #322 freetoken
Around here I haven't noticed any significant difference in prices between WalMart and Target. I avoid Walmart except a visit once a month to pick up some solution for contact lenses (which only Walmart carries locally at decent prices), but visit Target about once a week to pick up misc. stuff. The Targets do seem to be less crowded physically.
I remember way back when Target first popped onto the scene. The town I grew up in had an S.S. Kresge store (remember those?), and they transformed themselves into Kmart and built a huge (for that time) store on the edge of town. Kresge had been one of the two department stores in town, the other being J.C. Penny's. Sears and MonkeyWards just had catalog stores in town.
So Kmart and Target were sort of invented around the same time, and led the way to changes. This came right after someone had built a novel thing called a "shopping mall" on the edge of town, anchored by a real Sears store and a Penny's store. So I guess to compete Kresge's (which was still downtown and not in the new mall) had to do something as downtown started its long process of dying.
I never even heard of WalMart until after I had lived in California for a while, and never entered one until they built their first one in San Diego. So I grew up with Kresge/Kmart and Target as the discount department stores. Walmart still seems foreign to me and, even though this might seem biased, Walmart still strikes me as "Southern" in nature.
I grew-up with Kresge only I think we had one of the last actual Kresges outside of Detroit. Kmart was already in existence. We didn't have Target. When I moved to Indiana in the late 70's there were Ayreways--which was the discount store owned by a the department store chain L.S. Ayres. All the Ayreways became Targets.
Remember Venture? Always and Adventure at Venture . . .
I'd really check your prices, Walmart is almost always cheaper, but their products may not be exactly the same. Fewer ounces or whatever. They are great for couponers --as is Target. Walmart also offers a whole list of regular prescriptions for $4. You can save alot of money off co-pays etc at Walmart Pharmacy.
| 325 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:15:13am |
freetoken, were you doing photo calendars for xmas?
someone was --anyway, 50% off at Walgreens.
Also, check the weekly ad and coupons for additional savings.
| 326 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:21:21am |
re: #325 ggt
Yes, thanks. However, I won't be able to do it before the deadline (today!)
| 327 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:24:00am |
re: #324 ggt
There aren't that many Walmarts in San Diego, and they have moved into the shopping centers as a result of local realities. Perhaps because of that the prices here might be a few pennies more than back in the central part of the nation where Walmart gets real estate much more cheaply?
| 328 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:24:22am |
re: #326 freetoken
Yes, thanks. However, I won't be able to do it before the deadline (today!)
sign-up for emails. I get a special offer for photo stuff almost every day. They are desperate for business.
| 329 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:25:54am |
re: #327 freetoken
There aren't that many Walmarts in San Diego, and they have moved into the shopping centers as a result of local realities. Perhaps because of that the prices here might be a few pennies more than back in the central part of the nation where Walmart gets real estate much more cheaply?
They should still be cheaper --retailers constantly price shop each other and Walmart makes their business by being the "cheapest". That is one reason their stores are so jam packed with merchandise --they do volume business. Target's market is looking for "perceived" quality over price.
| 330 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:27:25am |
Perhaps that is one reason why I liked living in Japan - it reminded me somewhat of growing up in the 60's - department stores vs. big box discounters, local shop owners, grocery stores small enough to be navigable, and so on.
| 331 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:27:56am |
re: #327 freetoken
There aren't that many Walmarts in San Diego, and they have moved into the shopping centers as a result of local realities. Perhaps because of that the prices here might be a few pennies more than back in the central part of the nation where Walmart gets real estate much more cheaply?
They've started setting up a few Super Walmarts in SD.
| 332 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:28:16am |
re: #329 ggt
Well, my local Target is more convenient than the closest Walmart, and their saline solution is less expensive.
| 333 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:28:32am |
| 334 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:28:49am |
I've been playing the coupon game for a couple of years now.
It's the only reason I know so much about the different stores. I've become a price shopper for regular items. It is very difficult to beat Walmart+coupons.
| 335 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:29:47am |
re: #333 freetoken
Where?
They've got one down in Chula Vista and another in Spring Valley just off of the 94 by college. Those are the 2 I know about.
| 336 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:39:14am |
For Black Friday, Here is an Actual In-Store Tape Meant To Motivate the Sales Staff Prior to Each Days Opening:
| 338 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:41:29am |
re: #335 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hmm... Walmart.com doesn't list any in Spring Valley, but they do have the SuperCenter in Eastlake (Chula Vista). Funny the last one - I remember when Eastlake was first being developed and looked over some units, thinking I might buy down there. In hindsight I'm glad I didn't as I realize now that it would have been pretty remote for what I needed.
For those not local - Chula Vista is a town between San Deigo and the border, used to be mostly older folk and "starter" houses. Great climate, moderate (by SoCal standards) house prices, though its proximity to Mexico earned it the nickname "ChulaJuana". Then developers started to build large developments a bit farther east, inland, en masse, that were incorporated in (aka Eastlake.) Pretty much the typical 80's and 90's large scale developments with all the attendant issues.
Anyway, it is typical of this kind of development then to depend on huge box stores for retail, and I find it not unexpected that a Walmart SuperCenter would pop up there first in the greater SD area.
| 339 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:44:15am |
| 340 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:44:30am |
re: #338 freetoken
Hmm... Walmart.com doesn't list any in Spring Valley, but they do have the SuperCenter in Eastlake (Chula Vista). Funny the last one - I remember when Eastlake was first being developed and looked over some units, thinking I might buy down there. In hindsight I'm glad I didn't as I realize now that it would have been pretty remote for what I needed.
For those not local - Chula Vista is a town between San Deigo and the border, used to be mostly older folk and "starter" houses. Great climate, moderate (by SoCal standards) house prices, though its proximity to Mexico earned it the nickname "ChulaJuana". Then developers started to build large developments a bit farther east, inland, en masse, that were incorporated in (aka Eastlake.) Pretty much the typical 80's and 90's large scale developments with all the attendant issues.
Anyway, it is typical of this kind of development then to depend on huge box stores for retail, and I find it not unexpected that a Walmart SuperCenter would pop up there first in the greater SD area.
Walmart Supercenter
3412 College Ave, San Diego, CA 92115
| 341 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:44:42am |
re: #336 000G
For Black Friday, Here is an Actual In-Store Tape Meant To Motivate the Sales Staff Prior to Each Days Opening:
[Video]
Werner H. Erhard v2.0
| 342 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:45:31am |
re: #336 000G
For Black Friday, Here is an Actual In-Store Tape Meant To Motivate the Sales Staff Prior to Each Days Opening:
[Video]
| 343 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:45:42am |
| 344 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:47:51am |
re: #340 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hmm... yes, the College Grove (San Diego) store that shows up as #4 on this list:
[Link: www.walmart.com...]
but it doesn't say "SuperCenter".
Anyway, I'm unlikely to visit it. I guess I'm just a snob.
| 345 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:51:46am |
I am finding it easier to shop at Amazon for quite a variety of things... and it's cheaper than buying locally. Amazing Amazon.
| 346 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:52:02am |
| 347 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:52:35am |
re: #345 freetoken
I am finding it easier to shop at Amazon for quite a variety of things... and it's cheaper than buying locally. Amazing Amazon.
I'm a big Amazon shopper too.
| 348 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:53:36am |
Oh, and one more rant about retail - all too often I can't find specialty goods, especially at the big discount stores. Another reason to shop Amazon, from where I just received replacement cutter parts for my razor, and some specialty dental stuff.
| 349 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:53:47am |
re: #346 ggt
Why do people change their names like that?
It's good for business.
Iron Eyes Cody was born Espera Oscar de Corti.
| 350 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:54:34am |
re: #348 freetoken
Oh, and one more rant about retail - all too often I can't find specialty goods, especially at the big discount stores. Another reason to shop Amazon, from where I just received replacement cutter parts for my razor, and some specialty dental stuff.
No, you won't find specialty stuff at the Big Box stores. If it's the kind of think each location will only sell 3-4 of in a year, they'd get lost in the inventory and no one would be able to find them for you . . .
LOL
| 351 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:54:40am |
re: #346 ggt
Why do people change their names like that?
They believe they are reinventing themselves- which of course only indicates their own dissatisfaction with their natural self and group identity/affiliations, etc.
There was a time bias and bigotry was a factor but for most part, that era has long gone.
| 352 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:55:39am |
re: #349 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
It's good for business.
Iron Eyes Cody was born Espera Oscar de Corti.
Unless you are born with the name Adolph, I really have a problem with people changing their names. Seems fraudulent to me.
my perception anyway.
| 353 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:56:40am |
re: #350 ggt
The razor part I ordered was a Braun part of which Braun sells quite a bit, which Walmart has carried in the past. But through Amazon I was able to get it cheaper than I remember buying at Walmart... and I can't even find it at the closest Walmart (or Target) anymore.
| 354 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:56:56am |
re: #351 researchok
They believe they are reinventing themselves- which of course only indicates their own dissatisfaction with their natural self and group identity/affiliations, etc.
There was a time bias and bigotry was a factor but for most part, that era has long gone.
A lot of wannabe mystics and yoga types do that too. Change their name to some Hindu title. Seems so silly when they are obviously not Indian.
| 355 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:57:55am |
re: #353 freetoken
The razor part I ordered was a Braun part of which Braun sells quite a bit, which Walmart has carried in the past. But through Amazon I was able to get it cheaper than I remember buying at Walmart... and I can't even find it at the closest Walmart (or Target) anymore.
I've noticed retailers REALLY paring down their inventory the past couple of years. Response to economy and internet competition, IMHO.
| 356 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:58:22am |
paring or parring?
hering or herring?
LOL
| 357 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:59:17am |
re: #354 ggt
A lot of wannabe mystics and yoga types do that too. Change their name to some Hindu title. Seems so silly when they are obviously not Indian.
kind of disrespectful to your parents as well.
4th commandment and all.
I couldn't do that to my parents.
| 358 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:59:20am |
re: #354 ggt
A lot of wannabe mystics and yoga types do that too. Change their name to some Hindu title. Seems so silly when they are obviously not Indian.
Highlights the absurdity of attempting to camouflage a shallow exterior.
Mark Zuckerberg was not so troubled- or trivial.
| 359 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 1:59:44am |
re: #355 ggt
The brick stores, even Walmart, are really feeling the pressure from online competition.
I've noticed my recent Amazon orders have reached me quite quickly - even though I take the SuperSaver (free) shipping. It seems Amazon uses a lot of suppliers in AZ and NV for their California orders. Only takes a couple of days even with the ground shipping.
| 360 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:00:17am |
re: #359 freetoken
The brick stores, even Walmart, are really feeling the pressure from online competition.
I've noticed my recent Amazon orders have reached me quite quickly - even though I take the SuperSaver (free) shipping. It seems Amazon uses a lot of suppliers in AZ and NV for their California orders. Only takes a couple of days even with the ground shipping.
Amazon is awesome. All around.
| 361 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:00:23am |
re: #357 ggt
kind of disrespectful to your parents as well.
4th commandment and all.
I couldn't do that to my parents.
That speaks mostly to character.
High character.
| 362 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:00:51am |
| 363 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:01:24am |
| 364 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:02:44am |
Why Durban will be a failure, #17675:
Climate talks shouldn't affect oil income - Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia has said it seeks to ensure climate talks starting next week in Durban, South Africa, won't unfairly limit Opec's income, Bloomberg has reported. Climate change talks are at a stalemate because richer nations want emerging nations to be included in a global deal. Saudi Arabia and its Opec partners are being asked to bear too much of the burden of cutting greenhouse-gas emissions because their economies depend on oil and natural-gas revenue, Mohammed Al-Sabban, said in a speech at the Energy Dialogue conference in the capital Riyadh on November 21.
Because, like, the last thing we'd want out of a climate change agreement is to actually curtail fossil fuel use, right?
| 365 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:02:50am |
| 366 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:03:45am |
re: #364 freetoken
Why Durban will be a failure, #17675:
Climate talks shouldn't affect oil income - Saudi Arabia
Because, like, the last thing we'd want out of a climate change agreement is to actually curtail fossil fuel use, right?
I think it is probably very difficult to get all upset over climate change when you and your ancestors have ALWAYS lived in a desert.
:0
| 367 |
EdDantes Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:05:08am |
I was thinking of changing my name to Big Dick McGee.
| 368 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:06:21am |
re: #367 EdDantes
I was thinking of changing my name to Big Dick McGee.
That's better than the current 'Tiny'.
//
| 369 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:06:46am |
2 Days, 20 Imperial Guardsmen in full kit with urban cammies = Complete
| 371 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:07:24am |
re: #279 mracb
You're a female if I recall, heaven help your husband.
For my birthday I told my husband that his present was going to be that he didn't work all day (my birthday fell on a weekend). Nearly drove him nuts.
I've think I've decided what to ask for for Christmas. I'll ask that he go for a physical and do what the doctor says.
| 372 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:07:52am |
re: #370 EdDantes
Fred Astaire could not have done it better!
| 373 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:08:04am |
re: #369 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
2 Days, 20 Imperial Guardsmen in full kit with urban cammies = Complete
Is this a WOW thing?
| 374 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:08:14am |
re: #360 ggt
Amazon is awesome. All around.
All around? No, not really:
[Link: www.mcall.com...]
See also: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 375 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:11:22am |
re: #373 ggt
Is this a WOW thing?
Warhammer 40k. I decided to put together 2 squads of Guardsmen armed for bunker assaults.
| 376 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:11:35am |
| 377 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:12:55am |
re: #374 000G
All around? No, not really:
[Link: www.mcall.com...]
See also: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
I posted a review once that has been vilified by other reviewers over and over. I guess I'm just not part of the "intelligensia" surrounding the particular author. Anyway, the ONE positive supportive post about my review (which was very nice and properly polite) was deleted.
HAH!
| 378 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:16:04am |
Amazon Subscribe and Save has some great deals. Not all items, but some.
You can cancel anytime.
Be sure to read the whole page, there are coupons and special offers sometimes.
| 380 |
Aye Pod Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:16:26am |
re: #184 WindUpBird
Are you intentionally ignoring electronic music?
because that's literally the definition of reinvention
I went into a gallery of so called "Modern Art" the other day and was shocked to find that these so called 'new' and 'revolutionary' artists were all using variations of the same basic 3 primary colours that the old masters did. They have added nothing.
| 381 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:17:50am |
From the official site of the Communist Party of Russian Federation:
[Link: kprf.ru...]
Chairman of the Central Committee of Communist Party Gennady Zyuganov visited the church of Christ the Savior and venerated the reliq of the Orthodox world - Belt of Mother of God, sent to Moscow from Mount Athos
| 382 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:21:40am |
re: #378 ggt
I'm thinking of doing that with my protein purchases. However, the item I normally order isn't listed as Subscribe and Save right now, though I could swear it was not long ago.
| 383 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:23:13am |
re: #382 freetoken
I'm thinking of doing that with my protein purchases. However, the item I normally order isn't listed as Subscribe and Save right now, though I could swear it was not long ago.
Things come and go and the price's aren't always the best.
I got some great deals on the coffee I liked for about 6 shipments and then it was discontinued.
I think you can do well if you have a baby in the house or alot of kids.
| 384 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:28:01am |
re: #380 Jimmah
I went into a gallery of so called "Modern Art" the other day and was shocked to find that these so called 'new' and 'revolutionary' artists were all using variations of the same basic 3 primary colours that the old masters did. They have added nothing.
And this surprised you?
| 385 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:28:17am |
re: #383 ggt
The Amazon prices on Next's Designer Whey are very good:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
The Jarrow is even less expensive and is eligible for subscription savings:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
I've not used the Jarrow before and am not sure I want to try it. The Jarrow and Next (Natural-line natural-flavor only) are two of the few that have no artificial sweeteners or sugar added, and of all the protein I've used over the past 2 decades the Next is about the best compromise I've found.
| 386 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:29:55am |
re: #380 Jimmah
I went into a gallery of so called "Modern Art" the other day and was shocked to find that these so called 'new' and 'revolutionary' artists were all using variations of the same basic 3 primary colours that the old masters did. They have added nothing.
Not a fan of modern art. I like my art to represent actual things.
One of my favorite paintings
Also a fan of Japanese woodblock prints.
| 388 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:31:34am |
re: #386 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Not a fan of modern art. I like my art to represent actual things.
The suffering of mankind is not an actual thing?!?
gb2Norman Rockwell!
///
| 389 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:36:20am |
Bad lip reading : Ron Paul
| 390 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:39:39am |
| 391 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:40:33am |
re: #386 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm not a fan of "Black square"'s and various overly abstract works, for example consisting of various geometric figures and not much else. Dali, Magritte and others who could actually paint? That's a whole 'nother business.
| 392 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:41:30am |
re: #391 Sergey Romanov
I'm not a fan of "Black square"'s and various overly abstract works, for example consisting of various geometric figures and not much else. Dali, Magritte and others who could actually paint? That's a whole 'nother business.
Art is in the eye of the Beholder and he's twenty levels above you.
| 393 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:41:36am |
| 394 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:42:43am |
re: #392 Varek Raith
Not for long tho, bwahahaha.
| 395 |
Aye Pod Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:43:25am |
re: #386 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Nice. To me abstract painting is like instrumental music in creating a feeling rather than describing something or telling a story. I'm into all kinds of art an music - they all have something different to offer.
| 396 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:46:08am |
re: #391 Sergey Romanov
"My two-year old son could have painted that" is a pretty lame critique of abstract art, though.
"Black Square" consisted of a whole lot more than just geometry. I recommend Arthur C. Danto's The Transfiguration of the Commonplace on the subject.
| 397 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:47:26am |
re: #396 000G
"My two-year old son could have painted that" is a pretty lame critique of abstract art, though.
Did anybody here express that, tho?
| 398 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:48:10am |
Alright, Literary Lizards.
What are good novels that accurately portray Norse mythology as best as it is known?
| 399 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:48:18am |
Art is art.
And generally rather hard to define.
;)
| 400 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:48:18am |
re: #395 Jimmah
Nice. To me abstract painting is like instrumental music in creating a feeling rather than describing something or telling a story. I'm into all kinds of art an music - they all have something different to offer.
I'll take the woodblocks. The early 20th century triptych especially.
| 401 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:49:08am |
re: #398 ggt
What are good novels that accurately portray Norse mythology as best as it is known?
Such things exist?
| 402 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:49:37am |
re: #399 Varek Raith
Art is art.
And generally rather hard to define.
;)
You know it when you see it? /
| 403 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:50:15am |
| 404 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:50:43am |
re: #402 Sergey Romanov
You know it when you see it? /
Actually, yeah.
I have pictures of nuclear explosions.
Why?
In my mind, they're frighteningly beautiful.
Odd, aren't I?
:)
| 405 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:51:17am |
re: #397 Sergey Romanov
Did anybody here express that, tho?
"others who could actually paint" expresses that sort of sentiment. Kasimir Malevich could actually paint. There is no real justification for assuming that he couldn't. Same with Picasso. "Three Musicians" is one of my favorite works of visual art.
| 406 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:51:29am |
| 407 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:52:27am |
re: #405 000G
"others who could actually paint" expresses that sort of sentiment. Kasimir Malevich could actually paint. There is no real justification for assuming that he couldn't. Same with Picasso. "Three Musicians" is one of my favorite works of visual art.
Well, as it goes, you have to know the rules in order to know how to break the rules.
| 408 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:53:28am |
| 409 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:53:29am |
re: #407 ggt
Well, as it goes, you have to know the rules in order to know how to break the rules.
I'm of the opinion that there are no rules in art.
| 410 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:53:43am |
re: #404 Varek Raith
Actually, yeah.
I have pictures of nuclear explosions.
Why?
In my mind, they're frighteningly beautiful.
Odd, aren't I?
:)
Some great shades of red!
I want to see lava, up close. Husband thinks I am crazy.
Photos don't do justice to color.
| 411 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:54:08am |
re: #409 Varek Raith
I'm of the opinion that there are no rules in art.
Well, it has to appeal to the soul . . . .
| 412 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:54:09am |
re: #410 ggt
Some great shades of red!
I want to see lava, up close. Husband thinks I am crazy.
Photos don't do justice to color.
That would be neat.
| 413 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:54:31am |
| 414 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:55:30am |
Standing by Marshall McLuhan, who brilliantly understood the social (not subjective!) dimension of art:
Art is whatever you can get away with.
| 415 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:55:47am |
re: #411 ggt
Well, it has to appeal to the soul . . .
That's the neat thing.
Some art appeals to some souls while not being noticed by others.
Or something.
...
Why am I trying to be all philowhatsits???
:)
| 417 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:57:45am |
re: #407 ggt
Well, as it goes, you have to know the rules in order to know how to break the rules.
Zen.
| 418 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:57:45am |
re: #408 000G
By the way, Duchamp was the greatest prankster of modern art, ever.
Banksy is pretty good at it too ;-)
| 419 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:58:20am |
re: #405 000G
"others who could actually paint" expresses that sort of sentiment.
No, not really. Maybe they could techincally paint, but that's not what they're known for. And what they're known for leaves me absolutely cold. So it's not a "somebody could have painted" critique or an objective critique at all, but an opinion on what I like or dislike. And opinion is the only thing one can have about art.
| 421 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:59:14am |
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 422 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 2:59:58am |
re: #415 Varek Raith
That's the neat thing.
Some art appeals to some souls while not being noticed by others.
Or something.
...
Why am I trying to be all philowhatsits???
:)
Strictly speaking, Art is a form of communication. You can't speak to everyone in the same language -- some understand some words, some understand others.
One must abstract (verb) to various levels.
| 423 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:00:03am |
BTW, speaking of literature, the BBC recently did a piece on Steinbeck that is superb. The kind of stuff not seen on American broadcast TV. Oh, and it would probably drive the current GOP base into spasms if they watched it:
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
| 424 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:00:52am |
| 425 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:01:43am |
re: #418 WindUpBird
Banksy is pretty good at it too ;-)
I love Duchamp's prank for basically tricking people into believing that art is completely subjective and can be reduced to "if I put an object in an exhbition or an art museum, it becomes art!" while his so-called "readymades" were actually very elaborate, crafty pieces, a fact lost on most of his fans and epigones…
| 426 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:01:48am |
re: #415 Varek Raith
That's the neat thing.
Some art appeals to some souls while not being noticed by others.
Or something.
...
Why am I trying to be all philowhatsits???
:)
Hand over your Sith membership card!
Also, Good Morning Honcos!!
| 427 |
freetoken Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:02:20am |
Oh, and speaking of fine art, the BBC also has a recent series on Art in America is this highly recommended too:
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
| 428 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:03:46am |
re: #426 rwdflynavy
Hand over your Sith membership card!
Also, Good Morning Honcos!!
Ewoks set on fire is not art?!?!?!
:P
| 429 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:03:49am |
The creation of art is primal.
Put a crayon and a paper into the hands of a child anywhere and he or she will go on until told otherwise. For them, the creation of art is magic.
Tell a child to draw an emotion or a concept and the child will struggle and think and then create.
It really is quite extraordinary.
| 430 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:04:29am |
re: #419 Sergey Romanov
No, not really. Maybe they could techincally paint, but that's not what they're known for.
Yes, really. See ggt's #407. They wouldn't have been known for these paintings that leave you absolutely cold, if they hadn't known how to "actually" paint.
And what they're known for leaves me absolutely cold. So it's not a "somebody could have painted" critique or an objective critique at all, but an opinion on what I like or dislike.
So, yeah, no critique at all.
And opinion is the only thing one can have about art.
Disagreed, completely.
| 431 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:04:52am |
| 432 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:05:52am |
| 433 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:07:17am |
re: #432 Sergey Romanov
You finally got it! Congrats!
Next time, be more precise. You shouldn't talk about other people's actual abilities if you merely refer to how you feel about some of their products.
| 434 |
Kragar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:08:03am |
re: #428 Varek Raith
Ewoks set on fire is not art?!?!?!
:P
We already know SW stormtroopers can't establish an effective perimeter and can't shoot.
| 435 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:08:37am |
re: #433 000G
I'll write as I please. As should you.
| 436 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:09:23am |
re: #429 researchok
The creation of art is primal.
Put a crayon and a paper into the hands of a child anywhere and he or she will go on until told otherwise. For them, the creation of art is magic.
Tell a child to draw an emotion or a concept and the child will struggle and think and then create.
It really is quite extraordinary.
Children are best! Ever heard of Rhoda Kellogg?
After learning of her work, I've never looked at children's work the same way twice.
Children can paint a red line on a page and for some reason it is absolutely pure and beautiful.
| 437 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:10:37am |
re: #435 Sergey Romanov
I'll write as I please. As should you.
There's no disadvantage to taking reasonable advice.
Now back to our regularly scheduled subjectivist self-indulgence…
| 438 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:10:43am |
I'm going back to bed.
Have a great Small Business Saturday all!
| 440 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:11:19am |
re: #437 000G
okay.jpg
| 441 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:12:41am |
re: #436 ggt
Children are best! Ever heard of Rhoda Kellogg?
After learning of her work, I've never looked at children's work the same way twice.
Children can paint a red line on a page and for some reason it is absolutely pure and beautiful.
Same goes for outsider art and a lot of religious art as well. Art that's primally art but not traditionally art…
| 442 |
researchok Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:18:04am |
re: #436 ggt
Children can paint a red line on a page and for some reason it is absolutely pure and beautiful.
Children create art without expectations- it is merely an expression of themselves.
As we get older,many want validation of their efforts and seek the approval of others. If and when they get it, artists often repeat themselves.
That's why Picasso is considered a genius. He constantly elevated his art forms and evolved into new expressions, etc.
| 444 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:22:53am |
re: #436 ggt
gestalt theory, learned about it in art school
| 445 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:27:53am |
re: #391 Sergey Romanov
It's really, really, really, really stupid that this photograph is not only considered great art, but that it sold for 4.3 million:
| 446 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:29:52am |
re: #445 Obdicut
It's really, really, really, really stupid that this photograph is not only considered great art, but that it sold for 4.3 million:
Why?
| 447 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:30:30am |
re: #352 ggt
Unless you are born with the name Adolph, I really have a problem with people changing their names. Seems fraudulent to me.
my perception anyway.
When I was 16 I changed both my middle and last names. I was adopted by my step-father and took the opportunity to correct the horrible mistake they called my middle name. My previous name is now listed as an "alias" in my government file.
| 448 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:34:29am |
| 449 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:40:20am |
re: #446 Sergey Romanov
Why?
To the former, because at most it's observational, and it's something I've seen a hundred times before. There's no reason why this particular photograph playing with lines and texture is something amazing. Most people don't have any sort of reaction to it when I show it to them, until they're told how much it sold for. To me, it's the ultimate pretension of high art. Playing around with parallel lines and texture is a classic decorative motif.
As for the price, it just shows that money spent on art is mainly an investment and not actually, you know, paying for the effect it has.
| 450 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:43:53am |
re: #425 000G
I love Duchamp's prank for basically tricking people into believing that art is completely subjective and can be reduced to "if I put an object in an exhbition or an art museum, it becomes art!" while his so-called "readymades" were actually very elaborate, crafty pieces, a fact lost on most of his fans and epigones…
You know that's not at all proven, right? Some people claim that. It's pretty hard to verify.
| 451 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:45:54am |
re: #449 Obdicut
Price as a part of art? /
| 452 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:47:39am |
One of the truly ancient forms of craft/art that plays with texture and parellel lines is one of my favorites, actually. Partially because I love decorative-and-useful things:
And still being done today:
[Link: karatsupots.com...]
| 453 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:47:59am |
re: #449 Obdicut
There is a great scene in a novel by a favorite author of mine in which he recounts how his father died, a famous painter with whom he had become estranged. When it comes to taking care of the estate, the author, being a teen at the time, gets ripped off by his father's friends who pocket most of his father's paintings for themselves. Once the author learns about the magnitude of the fraud and the legal system fails him, rather than being content with the few paintings he has, he decides to get back at the people who did him wrong by selling the few of his father's paintings at flea markets for ten bucks each, subsequently crashing the overall market price of the paintings left in the hands of the defrauders.
| 454 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:48:47am |
re: #451 Sergey Romanov
That whole CDO meltdown thing that trashed the economy was actually just the greatest piece of performance art ever conceived. After all, you-- or a least someone-- has to suffer for great art.
| 455 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:49:00am |
re: #450 Obdicut
You know that's not at all proven, right? Some people claim that. It's pretty hard to verify.
I've read the analyses by Shearer and am convinced. More convinced than by the claims to the counter, anyhow.
| 456 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:50:33am |
re: #454 Obdicut
That whole CDO meltdown thing that trashed the economy was actually just the greatest piece of performance art ever conceived. After all, you-- or a least someone-- has to suffer for great art.
Heh. But usually one suffers in order to create great art, not from art.
| 457 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:51:09am |
re: #455 000G
I've read the analyises by Shearer and am convinced. More convinced than by the claims to the counter, anyhow.
That's nice. Presenting it without letting people know you're presenting one theory that you happen to believe, and saying it's a fact, is pretty disingenuous.
I don't happen to be convinced by that research, nor do I believe that would be an even greater prank if it were true.
| 458 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:51:19am |
re: #454 Obdicut
Seriously tho, if various abstract stuff we've been talking about is art, why not that photo. As I said, it's all opinion.
| 459 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:52:38am |
re: #457 Obdicut
That's nice. Presenting it without letting people know you're presenting one theory that you happen to believe, and saying it's a fact, is pretty disingenuous.
It's not disingenious if there are no credible counterclaims.
I don't happen to be convinced by that research, nor do I believe that would be an even greater prank if it were true.
So what's your reason for not being convinced and not believing it were "a greater prank" if true?
| 460 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:53:29am |
re: #458 Sergey Romanov
Seriously tho, if various abstract stuff we've been talking about is art, why not that photo. As I said, it's all opinion.
Oh, I'm fine with saying it's art. It is art. It's observational art. It's slightly less-creative than if someone had painted a painting of similar lines and texture or created a piece of pottery with a glaze that resembled it.
I just don't see any way to consider that great art, given that there's a gigantic pantheon of things that it resembles, most of which take more creativity and have more of an impact on people when they see them.
| 461 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:56:43am |
re: #459 000G
It's not disingenious if there are no credible counterclaims.
Also, I linked to the origin of that theory when I initially presented it, so claiming that I "didn't let people know" is pretty disingenious itself.
| 462 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:57:02am |
re: #459 000G
It's not disingenious if there are no credible counterclaims.
What the hell? The obvious counterclaim is that the pieces really were found art, that the Mona Lisa really was, as he said, a poster-copy he drew on.
Why on earth do you not think those are credible counterclaims?
So what's your reason for not being convinced and not believing it were "a greater prank" if true?
People have said they were with him when they bought the urinal, for example.
And the urinal doesn't deviate particularly from urinals in general. Nor does the Mona Lisa with mustache, beyond the mustache, deviate interestingly from the Mona Lisa. If he did hand-make the urinal, kind of pointless; he could have just bought one nearly identical.
Do you think it would be an even even greater greater prank if you were convinced they were actually hand-fabricated by him but then you found out that claim was a carefully orchestrated rumor he'd arranged to have put about, and they really were found objects?
| 463 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:58:21am |
apropos of nothing...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Clavin
//
| 464 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 3:58:49am |
re: #461 000G
Also, I linked to the origin of that theory when I initially presented it, so claiming that I "didn't let people know" is pretty disingenious itself.
You can't assume people will follow a link, and when you present a link, you should give an honest description of the information it contains.
If you don't give a shit, then go on not giving a shit. But I'm not going to stop pointing out when you're presenting a theory you happen to agree with as a 'fact'.
| 465 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:00:23am |
re: #462 Obdicut
What the hell? The obvious counterclaim is that the pieces really were found art, that the Mona Lisa really was, as he said, a photocopy he drew on.
Why on earth do you not think those are credible counterclaims?
Because they are not as supported by evidence.
People have said they were with him when they bought the urinal, for example.
Eyewitness reports are not really credible.
And the urinal doesn't deviate particularly from urinals in general.
The point was not that it did not deviate from urinals in general. The point was that it was not purchased (with the research going into how it couldn't have been).
If he did hand-make the urinal, kind of pointless; he could have just bought one nearly identical.
Then I guess you don't really get the point.
Do you think it would be an even even greater greater prank if you were convinced they were actually hand-fabricated by him but then you found out that claim was a carefully orchestrated rumor he'd arranged to have put about, and they really were found objects?
Sure. :-)
| 466 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:02:16am |
| 467 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:02:30am |
re: #464 Obdicut
You can't assume people will follow a link,
lol, okay.
when you present a link, you should give an honest description of the information it contains.
I did.
If you don't give a shit, then go on not giving a shit. But I'm not going to stop pointing out when you're presenting a theory you happen to agree with as a 'fact'.
No need to get all defensive, since I never tried to supress you about anything. And I have no idea where your ridiculous statement about me giving a shit comes from.
| 468 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:03:07am |
re: #466 Sergey Romanov
You mean the eyewitness reports, right?
Hm? No, in general. By the way, I really gotta run. Will follow-up later.
| 469 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:03:26am |
Rogue,
What are your thoughts on the evidence presented by Shearer vis a vis the urinal? I think the whole thing is jejune.
//
| 470 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:03:38am |
| 471 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:04:07am |
| 472 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:04:52am |
re: #471 000G
As credible as other evidence, that is.
And you've just lectured me on precision above. ;)
| 473 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:05:14am |
re: #465 000G
Because they are not as supported by evidence.
In your opinion.
Eyewitness reports are not really credible.
As opposed to the solitary research of a person who was trying to prove a particular theory of her own, the research of which showed, amazingly, her theory was right.
Then I guess you don't really get the point
Why are you certain you do?
Sure. :-)
Oh, never mind. You've got a view on art I find tiring in the extreme, then. Things that require context in order to properly enjoy or be intrigued by or 'understand' aren't art, to me. They're something just as clever and cool and worthwhile, but calling it art is mashing together categories that don't belong. You might as well, at that point, start calling a baseball player's swing art or the way that someone trains their dog art.
To me, it falls into this area:
[Link: www.mjt.org...]
| 474 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:05:15am |
| 475 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:07:22am |
re: #474 000G
OK, later. When you return: I didn't carp on that to be overly pedantic, but eyewitness evidence really is important evidence (with all the caveat emptors) and I don't like to see it denigrated for various reasons (some of which you know).
| 476 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:09:31am |
re: #466 Sergey Romanov
You mean the eyewitness reports, right?
| 477 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:11:19am |
Oh, for fuck's sake:
re: #473 Obdicut
In your opinion.
No, not just. There just is no credible counter theory.
As opposed to the solitary research of a person who was trying to prove a particular theory of his own, the research of which showed, amazingly, his theory was right.
Shearer is a woman.
Why are you certain you do?
What's the point of that question?
Things that require context in order to properly enjoy or be intrigued by or 'understand' aren't art, to me.
I never claimed anything about there being a "proper" way to enjoy things. If you want to enjoy things out-of-context, that's fine by me. I don't think that's improper at all. Context doesn't have to be and is not everything. But that doesn't mean that context doesn't matter.
You might as well, at that point, start calling a baseball player's swing art or the way that someone trains their dog art.
One might, but why prohibit it? There is no ultimative rational prescription to art.
Okay, "running away" now.
| 478 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:12:35am |
re: #469 rwdflynavy
Rogue,
What are your thoughts on the evidence presented by Shearer vis a vis the urinal? I think the whole thing is jejune.
//
The only urinal art that speaks to me:
[Link: i298.photobucket.com...]
| 479 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:13:04am |
This is a great book on the Museum of Jurassic Technology
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0679764895
Basically, the museum has displays like one of Zombie Ants, a very real phenomenon whereupon a certain fungus infects the brain of the ant and actually controls their bodies for its own ends, right next to something equally bizarre but completely made up.
It's a cool place run by a cool dude.</?tag=littlegreenfo-20
| 480 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:13:12am |
Apropos of nothing: one of my pet peeves is people using the phrase "Rashomon effect". Maybe because I've never seen the movie, but I have read the stories by Akutagawa, and in my mind the story which gave the name to the film is not connected to the actual "eyewitnesses tell different things" story in any way.
| 482 |
lostlakehiker Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:17:02am |
re: #13 darthstar
Nope. Not obsessively obsessed either. And I used to live near Davis, so I give a shit.
I've seen an actual police riot. Genuine excessive force. Batons, clubs, broken bones, etc. [though I didn't see the bone-breaking part of it, having prudently faded back from what was shaping up to ugly.]
Pepper spray is, I'm told, very painful. It will blind you temporarily, as well as hurt. But that's still a far piece from broken bones, eyes put out, etc.
Demonstrators have a responsibility to either comply with the law, or if they've determined on civil disobedience, to make it civil. COps too, but why try to lure them into error? They're the thin blue line between you, us, all of us, and anarchy and thug rule.
Here's what civil disobedience means. You're ordered to sit in the back of the bus. You just stay sat in the front until the law comes up to drag you off. Then, once it's settled that you're under arrest, you cooperate. No fighting, no dragging and making them lift you. The whole point of it is to put the law, and those wielding the law, in a position of using force to compel obedience to a law you think is so wrong that you're willing to pay the price of breaking it, just to call attention to the situation.
It is NOT to make the cops on the beat pay the price. It is NOT to injure them, or to set the stage for mayhem in which you or others in your group will be injured.
Mayhem tends to get out of hand. It may seem clever to push things to the edge, in the hope and expectation that the police will overreact and give you headlines and get them in trouble.
It's not. The police, here, aren't your opponent. Your enemy, or opponent, is the voters who elected the legislators who enacted the bad laws. Your job is persuasion, and the civil disobedience is your way of signaling, with a costly and hence credible signal, that you're in earnest. That way you get the attention of your audience.
The point of that attention-getting is that now you have your bully pulpit. Now it's time to be the voice of reason and justice, assuming you know more about it than the other side and you've just not been heard. Speak well.
| 483 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:17:50am |
re: #477 000G
No, not just. There just is no credible counter theory.
Yes, there is: They were found objects, but given the bespoke and limited-run nature of manufacturing in these days, and given how many of his works have been destroyed, and given the limitations of the research, no match between manufactured object and one of Duchamps was found. That's a perfectly credible counter-theory. You choose not to treat it as one, for reasons you don't make clear.
Shearer is a woman.
Yep, corrected.
What's the point of that question?
To show how foolish the 'you don't get the point' claim is. Almost as silly as the 'don't be so defensive' statement in an argument.
One might, but why prohibit it? There is no ultimative rational prescription to art.
As I said, that view of art is just extremely tiring to me. If you're really going to include every thing in the universe as potentially art, then who cares? How can we possibly talk about it?
| 484 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:19:21am |
re: #482 lostlakehiker
Here's what civil disobedience means. You're ordered to sit in the back of the bus. You just stay sat in the front until the law comes up to drag you off. Then, once it's settled that you're under arrest, you cooperate. No fighting, no dragging and making them lift you.
Why on earth do you believe that to be true? You don't think passive resistance is part of civil disobedience? Why?
By the way, since you called LGF a hate site, why are you still posting here?
| 485 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:23:35am |
re: #473 Obdicut
re: #477 000G
You both are wrong!!! ///
This case is in that vague boundary between fact and opinion.
For example, I consider that the Tale of Igor's Campaign was written in XIIth century to be an established fact. If I talk about it, I usually won't mention that this fact is contested by some bona fide researchers (none of them linguists, though). Why? Well, I've read certain works by undeniable experts in the field and am convinced that they're correct. I don't find the works of the "skeptics", no matter how bona fide they are, credible. In my estimation (based on the works I read) they're filled with mistakes.
An adherent of one of the "skeptical" theories might object to my not mentioning them, of course.
So I don't think it is necessarily disingenuous of 000G not to mention the alternatives, if he has examined the arguments himself and finds them convincing.
Which doesn't mean that he is actually correct.
| 486 |
lostlakehiker Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:26:17am |
re: #484 Obdicut
Why on earth do you believe that to be true? You don't think passive resistance is part of civil disobedience? Why?
By the way, since you called LGF a hate site, why are you still posting here?
In the hopes that it was an aberration, that thread. That the community here is better than that, fundamentally. I was really disappointed in the tone of that thread. But disappointment is the flip side of hope. A site which I knew was entrenched on that kind of attitude---I'd have to walk away.
As to passive resistance, the whole point of it, in my mind, is to force the issue to an arrest. Simple compliance, upon being ordered out of the seat or what have you, doesn't serve the purpose.
Once the issue has been forced and arrests are being made, there's nothing good to be expected from any further resistance. What's more, it tends to get out of hand. People kick, bite, others start throwing stuff, and next thing you know there's injuries.
| 487 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:30:48am |
re: #485 Sergey Romanov
Sergey, They could both be right if you just take into account the Rashomon effect.
//
| 488 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:31:07am |
Inside the jails home to Libya's 'enemies'
Portia Walker reports from Zintan on how thousands accused of Gaddafi links are held illegally by militias in makeshift prisons
[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]
For four months, Ali Jumaa Tahir's parents had a funeral tent pitched outside their home in a small town 15km from Tripoli, as they mourned the son they thought had died fighting for Gaddafi.
It wasn't until October, when he was able to call them from a borrowed mobile phone lent by one of the guards in the makeshift prison where he is now detained, that they discovered their 36-year-old son was still alive.
Mr Tahir is just one of more than 7,000 "enemies of the state" believed to have "disappeared" in a dysfunctional system, according to a report by the UN Security General due to be released on Monday. Thousands of people, including women and children, it states, are reportedly being illegally detained by rebel militias in Libya where many are subject to torture, beatings and systematic mistreatment in private jails run by the Western-backed revolutionaries who now rule Libya.
| 489 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:31:29am |
re: #485 Sergey Romanov
This is an irritating case to me because there just isn't enough evidence around to conclude one way or another. Since Duchamp did also do 'constructed' pieces, if one piece of 'found' art was shown to actually be a 'constructed' one, it wouldn't be that surprising. The piece is still the same piece. It bores me to tears when people start caring deeply about the exactly what claims were made about the conditions a piece was made in.
| 490 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:33:18am |
re: #487 rwdflynavy
Sergey, They could both be right if you just take into account the Rashomon effect.
//
Always trying to find the common ground aren't you. Blessed are the peacemakers and all that.
| 491 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:33:57am |
re: #486 lostlakehiker
In the hopes that it was an aberration, that thread. That the community here is better than that, fundamentally. I was really disappointed in the tone of that thread. But disappointment is the flip side of hope. A site which I knew was entrenched on that kind of attitude---I'd have to walk away.
Do you regret calling LGF a hate site, then?
As to passive resistance, the whole point of it, in my mind, is to force the issue to an arrest. Simple compliance, upon being ordered out of the seat or what have you, doesn't serve the purpose.
But you are aware that many who practice civil disobedience disagree, and think passive resistance, showing that the state, in the end, is using actual force to quell the protest, enact the law, is useful?
If passive resistance-- lying limp or not participating otherwise in your own arrest-- isn't civil disobedience to you, what is it?
| 492 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:36:58am |
re: #489 Obdicut
I get that you object on the factual ground, I have no problem with that. I don't even know who Duchamp was, apparently a guy who was fond of urinals //. I do think that if a person has studied the evidence and is convinced of it and there is no overwhelming expert majority opinion against it, it's not disingenuous to state it as a matter of fact and not one of theories. If he happens to be wrong, I'll correct him on factual grounds.
| 493 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:37:40am |
re: #487 rwdflynavy
Sergey, They could both be right if you just take into account the Rashomon effect.
//
So now we have the full set: one is wrong, another is wrong, both are wrong, all are right.
| 494 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:41:31am |
Later lizards. Time to move back up to the DC area. Stay scaly!!
| 495 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:43:01am |
re: #492 Sergey Romanov
I get that you object on the factual ground, I have no problem with that. I don't even know who Duchamp was, apparently a guy who was fond of urinals //. I do think that if a person has studied the evidence and is convinced of it and there is no overwhelming expert majority opinion against it, it's not disingenuous to state it as a matter of fact and not one of theories. If he happens to be wrong, I'll correct him on factual grounds.
The opinion in the field is divided. Most people think they really were found objects. It's a minority view that's being presented as 'fact'.
| 496 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 4:57:56am |
Swedish artist Björn Kjelltoft urinated in the Fountain at Moderna Museet in Stockholm in 1999.[16]
Heh. Now that's art.
| 497 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:28:27am |
The Great State of Chicago:
[Link: www.sj-r.com...]
DECATUR — Two Republican Illinois lawmakers say Chicago-style politics are dominating the state and they have a solution.
State Reps. Bill Mitchell of Forsyth and Adam Brown of Decatur have proposed separating Cook County from Illinois and creating a 51st state.
WAND-TV in Decatur reports the representatives held a press conference Tuesday in Decatur to talk about their proposal.
Brown said Chicago is overshadowing the rest of the state. Mitchell says families in other parts of the state believe Chicago is “dictating its views.”
They’ve proposed Cook County, which is the second most populous county in the U.S., to become one state and the other 101 counties in Illinois to become another.
| 498 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:40:46am |
Mexico: 26 Bodies Found in Cars
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Twenty-six bodies were found inside three abandoned vehicles on a busy road in the heart of Guadajalara, Mexico’s second-largest city, state officials said Thursday. Many victims had “Milenio Zetas” written on their chests. A message was left in one of the vans clarifying that this is a battle between cartels and not with ordinary citizens. It also referred to the governments of Jalisco, where Guadalajara is located, and Sinaloa, where 16 people were found charred on Wednesday.
The turf war between the Zetas and the Payasos Callejeros takes an ugly turn.
| 499 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:43:57am |
re: #491 Obdicut
Do you regret calling LGF a hate site, then?
You know, it's interesting that lostlakehiker doesn't seem to want to answer that question. I've been doing some research recently that necessitates digging into the LGF archives, something I'm not at all fond of doing as there are some threads which contain numerous comments that I find utterly sickening.
I could even point to one of the threads where such comments were occurring and lostlakehiker was a participant—NOT a participant in the ugly comments, just to be clear, but nonetheless obviously aware of what was being said. Strangely enough, none of those comments caused lostlakehiker to label LGF as a hate site, even though, in comparison, they make the comments that have occurred during the OWS arguments sound like kiddie slap fights during kindergarten recess.
Obviously, I could link to the thread in question or post quotes from the various comments, but I'm not going to as that sort of thing is better left dead & buried where it is, IMO. Still, I find it...odd, this aversion. Perhaps lostlakehiker—like others here who were around at the same time—has simply changed over the years and become more sensitive to that sort of self-degrading, hateful speech.
Anyway, back to my research for now...
| 500 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:45:14am |
| 501 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:46:05am |
re: #499 CuriousLurker
Can you email the link to me tho? ;)
| 502 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:47:05am |
| 504 |
palomino Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:49:26am |
re: #497 RogueOne
The Great State of Chicago:
[Link: www.sj-r.com...]
What a waste of time for the people in IL. Sorry that said Reps. feel like they're being "dictated to" by Chicago. But that's what happens when over half a state's population lives in one city, and as a resident of the state you just have to deal with it.
Same thing is true with respect to NYC and NY state; also Nevada and Las Vegas--over half the pop. lives in one city, so what? We haven't added a state in over 50 years. The persecution complexes of some downstate IL legislators are hardly sufficient reason to make such a radical change.
| 505 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:54:09am |
re: #502 CuriousLurker
*glares at Sergey* Do not poke fun at my duck!
I don't poke fun at my dinner.//
| 507 |
palomino Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:57:04am |
re: #500 Sergey Romanov
Lol:
Funny. Reminds me of some of the bible thumpers I grew up with in TX. Whenever an issue of morality or religion came up, they had the same response: "If it's in the Bible, I believe it. End of story." Also unfortunately the end of any meaningful conversation. They see the bible as their own personal ace of spades; no matter what, they always "win" because they hold the trump card.
| 508 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 5:59:23am |
re: #504 palomino
The current system has some insanity to it: Wyoming, with 544,270 people, has just as much power in the senate as California's 36,961,664 people. Nearly 72 times as many people in California, but they get the same number of senators because of arbitrary 'state' line designation. Thanks to the Senate and the filibuster rules, senators representing 10.3% of the US population can block any legislation from going forward.
The rural and less-populous areas already hold inordinate sway in US politics.
| 509 |
palomino Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:03:20am |
re: #498 RogueOne
Mexico: 26 Bodies Found in Cars
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]The turf war between the Zetas and the Payasos Callejeros takes an ugly turn.
Reminds me of the 40 bodies dumped in the middle of a hiway a couple of months back in some Mexican city (Monterey?). Drug cartels have been smart enough so far to keep the mass murders on their side of the border. They've got a lucrative gig going on; why get the US authorities (who are far less corrupt) any more involved than they have to? But all hell will break loose when we start seeing this type of carnage in the US.
| 510 |
palomino Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:13:12am |
re: #508 Obdicut
The current system has some insanity to it: Wyoming, with 544,270 people, has just as much power in the senate as California's 36,961,664 people. Nearly 72 times as many people in California, but they get the same number of senators because of arbitrary 'state' line designation. Thanks to the Senate and the filibuster rules, senators representing 10.3% of the US population can block any legislation from going forward.
The rural and less-populous areas already hold inordinate sway in US politics.
Absolutely correct. I've lived most of my life in the two most populous states, Cali and TX. Always galled me that we were so underrepresented in the Senate, and to a certain extent in the House as well. Small states get 1 or 2 Reps. in the House who may only represent around 500,00 each. In bigger states, each Rep. has a district with more like 800,000 people. But that's a minor injustice compared with the Senate.
Big problem: 38 states are needed to approve a Const. amendment, which is the only way to alter the Senate's makeup. And there are a lot of smaller states who would stand to lose their disproportionately large influence if they were to agree to a more population based Senate formulation.
| 511 |
palomino Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:15:29am |
re: #506 RogueOne
I'd like to think they're joking.
They probably are; well, at least sort of. They know their proposal won't go anywhere, but it makes them feel good and sends a signal to their constituents who might feel slighted by the power of mighty Chicago.
| 512 |
palomino Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:17:24am |
Bueller, Bueller? Anybody here?
I guess my early morning rambling rants bored everyone away. Sorry.
| 513 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:20:38am |
re: #512 palomino
Holiday weekend. I'm heading out for a walk, myself.
| 514 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:21:05am |
re: #512 palomino
Bueller, Bueller? Anybody here?
I guess my early morning rambling rants bored everyone away. Sorry.
Don't feel bad. No one got my clown car joke either.//
| 515 |
Shropshire_Slasher Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:39:29am |
re: #514 RogueOne
Heh, I look like the creepy clown.
| 516 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:41:03am |
Mornin' everyone...
Rogue...I just watched that clown video (with the sound off as the missus is still sleeping) and remember why clowns always gave me nightmares as a kid.
| 517 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:41:59am |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
UC DAVIS OCCUPY 2011 "you will be subject to force"
[Video]
VIDEO: UC Davis police warned protestorsStill outrageously outrageous?
At a guess, I'd say the UC Davis administration was OK with force being used, until that pepper-spraying photo came out. Then they lied about what they had approved to distance themselves. Still makes the pepper-spraying itself a bad idea. The protestors were not resisting, so the police should have reached down and hauled them away one by one.
| 518 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:46:25am |
re: #508 Obdicut
The current system has some insanity to it: Wyoming, with 544,270 people, has just as much power in the senate as California's 36,961,664 people. Nearly 72 times as many people in California, but they get the same number of senators because of arbitrary 'state' line designation. Thanks to the Senate and the filibuster rules, senators representing 10.3% of the US population can block any legislation from going forward.
The rural and less-populous areas already hold inordinate sway in US politics.
That's not a bug, its a function. It was intended to prevent the larger states from running roughshod over smaller ones. It was also intended to address the fact that people from different areas have different needs, and representation by population might leave some people out in the cold.
Those things having been said, the founders did not foresee the "gentleman's filibuster", nor the constant need to raise money that, in part at least, caused it to replace the traditional filibuster.
| 519 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:48:08am |
re: #517 Dark_Falcon
The protestors were not resisting, so the police should have reached down and hauled them away one by one.
And arrested them for legal assembly according to the US Constitution.
| 520 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:49:08am |
Local News Station Makes Unfortunate ‘Black Holiday Shoppers’ Chyron Error
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]
| 521 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:52:07am |
re: #519 darthstar
And arrested them for legal assembly according to the US Constitution.
The police were ordered to clear them out of the encampment. They could have just done what was done in Chicago when protestors blocked a bridge over the Chicago River: they detained those blocking the bridge until they'd cleared the roadway, then wrote them tickets for "failing to take due care as a pedestrian" and let them go. A tactic like that would have worked, and the might have gotten some money off of the tickets.
| 522 |
RogueOne Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:52:48am |
The UC Davis Pepper Spraying Incident, Immortalized In LEGOs
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]
| 523 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:53:54am |
Heh...my snoozing wife just curled up against me and said, "Happy birthday" - I said, "Happy birthday to you too." and she went back to sleep.
Our b-days are in March and April
| 524 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:56:18am |
re: #521 Dark_Falcon
The police were ordered to clear them out of the encampment.
"encampment?" They were protesting not being allowed into a public meeting.
| 525 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:56:37am |
re: #482 lostlakehiker
Here's what civil disobedience means. You're ordered to sit in the back of the bus. You just stay sat in the front until the law comes up to drag you off. Then, once it's settled that you're under arrest, you cooperate. No fighting, no dragging and making them lift you. The whole point of it is to put the law, and those wielding the law, in a position of using force to compel obedience to a law you think is so wrong that you're willing to pay the price of breaking it, just to call attention to the situation.
Rotfl, this is probably one of the most idiotic things I've read on the entire internet.
I bet you're one of those miseducated conservatives who really does believe that all civil rights was is Rosa Park's tired feet and a couple over-used phrases from an MLK speech.
Part of white states rights conservatism is state-sponsored violence/enforcement of those social norms, that makes crossing those arbitrary lines, e.g. sitting at the front of the bus, not only a criminal act, but one that could get you killed, and your part of town burned down.
Do not kid yourself that the people involved in civil disobedience -- not only during the Civil Rights movement, but also Veteran's rights, disability rights, gay rights, suffrage, and any of the other of our social movements designed to show up states rights conservatism for the totalitarian lifestyle it is -- didn't know the physical consequences of going into that line of work.
| 526 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:57:38am |
re: #518 Dark_Falcon
That's not a bug, its a function. It was intended to prevent the larger states from running roughshod over smaller ones
I know it was intentional. It's still a bizarre, problematic part of US politics.
.
It was also intended to address the fact that people from different areas have different needs, and representation by population might leave some people out in the cold.
As it is, representation by territory leaves some people out in the cold, or rather, much chillier. It's relatively easy for a Wyoming resident to get the attention of their senator. It's extremely hard for a Californian resident to do so.
And the history of it is not as you make it out to be, either. Both Hamilton and Madison were opposed to the Senate as massively unjust, but the states already existed, and the states had votes in the composition of the Constitution. Basically, the states with lower populations voted for their own interests. It's a recursive problem. And when you say "the founders" did this, you should probably note that many of the founders saw it as abhorrent.
Those things having been said, the founders did not foresee the "gentleman's filibuster", nor the constant need to raise money that, in part at least, caused it to replace the traditional filibuster.
Nor did they forsee population exploding to the extent that it has, so the differences between the states would be so insane.
| 528 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Nov 26, 2011 6:59:20am |
re: #499 CuriousLurker
I could even point to one of the threads where such comments were occurring and lostlakehiker was a participant—NOT a participant in the ugly comments, just to be clear, but nonetheless obviously aware of what was being said. Strangely enough, none of those comments caused lostlakehiker to label LGF as a hate site, even though, in comparison, they make the comments that have occurred during the OWS arguments sound like kiddie slap fights during kindergarten recess.
Sounds to me like lostlakehiker just hates that LGF is no longer that kind of site. //
| 529 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:07:50am |
re: #517 Dark_Falcon
At a guess, I'd say the UC Davis administration was OK with force being used, until that pepper-spraying photo came out. Then they lied about what they had approved to distance themselves. Still makes the pepper-spraying itself a bad idea. The protestors were not resisting, so the police should have reached down and hauled them away one by one.
I think they tried (not very hard) to haul them away in the original video. He tries to grab one chick by the arm and she pulls away. I think that has the only effort I saw to physically move them.
| 530 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:09:32am |
| 531 |
McSpiff Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:09:35am |
So my neighbour was captured by a German Raider in WW2 and handed over to the Japanese. As far as I can tell, the ship only made port in Japan once, and I found newsreel footage of it on YouTube. Pretty excited to find that.
| 532 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:11:18am |
| 533 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:14:06am |
re: #531 McSpiff
What's the ship's name?
| 534 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:16:12am |
re: #530 Killgore Trout
Fuckin' Christians are doing that here...scares the fuck out of the Muslim world, apparently.
| 535 |
McSpiff Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:17:12am |
| 536 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:18:05am |
re: #534 darthstar
It scares the fuck out of everyone sane, but there's no visible connection between that and the elections. Islamists strive for power no matter what. Blind masses vote for them regardless.
| 537 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:22:29am |
Watched a good movie yesterday - "Margin Call" - Stanley Tucci, Kevin Spacey, Demi Moore, Jeremy Irons...about a firm that discovers they're holding 8 trillion dollars in dog-shit. Has a "happy" ending, too...all the principle characters have a shitload of money and the firm dumps all of its toxic assets onto its clients. (Of course, there will be thousands of people destroyed by their actions, but they do show some remorse as they cash in.)
| 538 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:22:36am |
re: #531 McSpiff
So my neighbour was captured by a German Raider in WW2 and handed over to the Japanese. As far as I can tell, the ship only made port in Japan once, and I found newsreel footage of it on YouTube. Pretty excited to find that.
That was something German raiders in the Indian Ocean did. Letting merchant sailors of belligerent nations go would have freed them to continue acting against Germany.
However, I could make the argument that in turning their prisoners over to the Japanese, the Thor's crew were therefore at least in part responsible for Japanese mistreatment of said prisoners later. That argument would rest on the obligation to ensure that prisoners handed over to an ally were treated properly under the Geneva conventions. Not sure if its a valid argument, thoughts?
| 539 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:25:07am |
re: #536 Sergey Romanov
It scares the fuck out of everyone sane, but there's no visible connection between that and the elections. Islamists strive for power no matter what. Blind masses vote for them regardless.
Christians strive for power no matter what. Blind masses vote for them regardless.
Really, given how much the two ends of the spectrum have in common, you'd think they'd be allies.
| 540 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:29:21am |
Not Romney/Doesn't Matter 2012! Jesus wants it that way!
| 541 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:30:06am |
re: #539 darthstar
Christians strive for power no matter what. Blind masses vote for them regardless.
Really, given how much the two ends of the spectrum have in common, you'd think they'd be allies.
Islam ≠ Islamism (also referred to here as Radical or Political Islam). By the same token, Christianity ≠ Dominionism (which might be defined as "Political Fundamentalist Protestant Christianity").
Get your facts straight.
| 542 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:32:00am |
re: #539 darthstar
Well, your first mistake is to confuse Christians and Christianists. Your second mistake is that the degree of radicalism does differ. Sure, given enough time the US Christianists may degenerate into more savage forms, like those who support stoning adulterers. It hasn't happened as of yet. Finally, bringing up Christianists each time foreign Islamists do a bad thing is tedious - one evil doesn't necessarily cause the other or cancel it out.
| 543 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:32:21am |
re: #539 darthstar
Christians strive for power no matter what. Blind masses vote for them regardless.
Really, given how much the two ends of the spectrum have in common, you'd think they'd be allies.
LOL! Christians are just like Islamicists!! It's true cause it's funny.
They see me trolllin, they hatin.
| 544 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:34:46am |
re: #541 Dark_Falcon
Islam ≠ Islamism (also referred to here as Radical or Political Islam). By the same token, Christianity ≠ Dominionism (which might be defined as "Political Fundamentalist Protestant Christianity").
Get your facts straight.
Hm...
In recent years Morocco's Islamists have cultivated an image as honest outsiders battling corruption and seeking to improve services, rather than focusing on moral issues such as whether women wear the Islamic headscarf.
You're right...these Moroccan Islamists are fare more advanced than our Christian leaders... Battle corruption? Improve services?
| 545 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:35:05am |
re: #542 Sergey Romanov
support stoning adulterers
I guess may adulterers probably do get stoned while doing it
That, or maybe drunk !!
//
| 546 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:36:30am |
re: #543 rwdflynavy
LOL! Christians are just like Islamicists!! It's true cause it's funny.
They see me trolllin, they hatin.
Patroling, they try ta catch me postin' dirty!
(try ta catch me postin' dirty!)
Got caught by Stinky,
post got deleted.
He talked to Charles and,
they went and put me in timeout!
(they went and put me in timeout!)
/ :D
| 547 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:36:49am |
re: #544 darthstar
Hamas is known for its "good" social work too. Doesn't mean it's better than the Republicans, overall.
| 548 |
McSpiff Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:38:03am |
re: #538 Dark_Falcon
That was something German raiders in the Indian Ocean did. Letting merchant sailors of belligerent nations go would have freed them to continue acting against Germany.
In Jim's case, taking him prisoner was even more valid since he was an actual Naval Officer traveling on board a civilian ship, not a crew member of the ship (hope that makes sense). I believe the ship was also carrying military correspondence, although the Thor wouldn't have known that.
I agree though, taking merchant sailors prisoner to impact the enemies ability to resupply seems like its a valid tactic, assuming the men are treated properly as POWs.
I've spoken with Jim about this a few times and read his memoirs, and he really emphasis that the Germans he dealt with treated him and the other prisoners reasonably well. Being stuck on a raider would not be a comfortable situation, but it didn't seem that they went out of their way to make the prisoner's lives miserable either.
However, I could make the argument that in turning their prisoners over to the Japanese, the Thor's crew were therefore at least in part responsible for Japanese mistreatment of said prisoners later. That argument would rest on the obligation to ensure that prisoners handed over to an ally were treated properly under the Geneva conventions. Not sure if its a valid argument, thoughts?
I agree, but for me it depends on the level of knowledge the crew had. I believe the camp at Yokohama was the first POW camp on the home islands, and reading about the ships other voyages I'm not sure the crew would have seen Japanese brutality first hand. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that.
| 549 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:41:31am |
re: #544 darthstar
Hm...
You're right...these Moroccan Islamists are fare more advanced than our Christian leaders... Battle corruption? Improve services?
Sounds like what Harold Washington campaigned as being able to do when he ran for mayor of Chicago. And guess who thrilled to his winning election in 1983 and moved to Chicago hoping to assist Washington in those goals? That's right, none other than Barack Obama! So by your logic, the president is no better than someone who supports Islamist candidates.
Now, I know you're not a Gellerite, DS, but your logic in this matter is highly suspect.
| 550 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:42:02am |
re: #542 Sergey Romanov
Finally, bringing up Christianists each time foreign Islamists do a bad thing is tedious - one evil doesn't necessarily cause the other or cancel it out.
Winning seats via a democratic process isn't a bad thing...it's Democracy. Morrocco isn't turning into Saudi Arabia, or Iran...
And if you look at how much anti-woman legislation has passed in this country since the 2010 Republican coup, you would be forgiven for questioning which counttry was more advanced culturally.
| 551 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:44:19am |
re: #547 Sergey Romanov
Hamas is known for its "good" social work too. Doesn't mean it's better than the Republicans, overall.
So the assumption is that Morocco's new majority party is a terrorist organization based upon their religious ideology?
| 552 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:44:38am |
re: #548 McSpiff
In Jim's case, taking him prisoner was even more valid since he was an actual Naval Officer traveling on board a civilian ship, not a crew member of the ship (hope that makes sense). I believe the ship was also carrying military correspondence, although the Thor wouldn't have known that.
I agree though, taking merchant sailors prisoner to impact the enemies ability to resupply seems like its a valid tactic, assuming the men are treated properly as POWs.
I've spoken with Jim about this a few times and read his memoirs, and he really emphasis that the Germans he dealt with treated him and the other prisoners reasonably well. Being stuck on a raider would not be a comfortable situation, but it didn't seem that they went out of their way to make the prisoner's lives miserable either.
I agree, but for me it depends on the level of knowledge the crew had. I believe the camp at Yokohama was the first POW camp on the home islands, and reading about the ships other voyages I'm not sure the crew would have seen Japanese brutality first hand. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that.
True. Just an idea I wanted to float.
| 553 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:44:59am |
re: #550 darthstar
Winning seats via a democratic process isn't a bad thing...it's Democracy. Morrocco isn't turning into Saudi Arabia, or Iran...
And if you look at how much anti-woman legislation has passed in this country since the 2010 Republican coup, you would be forgiven for questioning which counttry was more advanced culturally.
I don't think you understand the word coup. Overall, I still think the US is more advanced culturally, please forgive me.
| 554 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:49:24am |
re: #550 darthstar
Winning seats via a democratic process isn't a bad thing...it's Democracy. Morrocco isn't turning into Saudi Arabia, or Iran...
Maybe it is, how would we know which way it turns? If Islamists win democratically, and then use this same process to subvert democracy, how is this a good thing? Democracy is but a lesser of all evils (in most cases anyway). And when democracy leads to bad guys taking most of the power, that means it ceases to be even a lesser evil. That's why in some countries the democratic process is limited - it is closed to openly anti-democratic parties like the neo-Nazis.
And if you look at how much anti-woman legislation has passed in this country since the 2010 Republican coup, you would be forgiven for questioning which counttry was more advanced culturally.
Hyperbole again.
| 555 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:49:53am |
re: #548 McSpiff
One other thing to note is that the Japanese were eager to have German ships visit, as the Germans usually brought at least designs for things like ship fire control systems. Though some such exchange proved useful (such as the engine mounting design of the FW-190, knowledge of which helped Japan build the Ki-100), many of the system designs the Germans brought proved beyond Japan's ability to build.
| 556 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:50:30am |
re: #551 darthstar
So the assumption is that Morocco's new majority party is a terrorist organization based upon their religious ideology?
Sorry, who ever called the Morocco's new majority party terrorist? Or is it an accidental strawman?
| 557 |
McSpiff Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:51:07am |
re: #552 Dark_Falcon
True. Just an idea I wanted to float.
For sure, and I agree with your point. If being handed over to the Japanese had been used as a punishment or something similar I'd say that was a war crime 100%.
| 558 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:51:50am |
re: #553 rwdflynavy
Overall, I still think the US is more advanced culturally,
Not as long as The Biggest Loser, Dancing With Stars and (the new version of ) Two and a Half Men are in the Top 10 TV shows !!!
//
| 559 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:51:54am |
re: #550 darthstar
Downding for using "coup". The 2010 elections were free and fair up here in the Great Lakes region. The GOP made strong gains, and did not do so through violence or electoral fraud.
| 560 |
McSpiff Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:53:10am |
re: #555 Dark_Falcon
One other thing to note is that the Japanese were eager to have German ships visit, as the Germans usually brought at least designs for things like ship fire control systems. Though some such exchange proved useful (such as the engine mounting design of the FW-190, knowledge of which helped Japan build the Ki-100), many of the system designs the Germans brought proved beyond Japan's ability to build.
Not surprised, the level of manufacturing ability for many of Germany's designs proved beyond themselves by the end of the war. They had a real tendency to over engineer IMO.
| 561 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:53:25am |
re: #553 rwdflynavy
I don't think you understand the word coup. Overall, I still think the US is more advanced culturally, please forgive me.
I was making a point...no need to be defensive...state by state we're acting no better than those countries we intend to liberate and "save" from themselves. Racial profiling (immigration reform laws), "personhood" initiatives (slap a lock on your daughters' uteruses- that's state property now), voter ID - (can't have those brown people interferin' with our white elections), and of course protect the rich at all costs (screw education and the elderly poor).
Yes, culturally the US is so far advanced over the rest of the world we're about to lap them. That's why we keep trying to turn our civil rights clock back 150 years.
| 562 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:53:53am |
re: #544 darthstar
Oh, and this:
> In recent years Morocco's Islamists have cultivated an image as honest outsiders battling corruption and seeking to improve services, rather than focusing on moral issues such as whether women wear the Islamic headscarf.
Why are they called Islamists then?
| 563 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:54:05am |
re: #558 sattv4u2
Overall, I still think the US is more advanced culturally,
Not as long as The Biggest Loser, Dancing With Stars and (the new version of ) Two and a Half Men are in the Top 10 TV shows !!!
//
Aw come on! After all, Ashton Kutcher has shown just as much willingness to screw 22 year old blondes as Charlie Sheen!
/ #winning
| 564 |
McSpiff Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:55:11am |
re: #561 darthstar
You really have very little knowledge of the outside world if you think 'state by state' the US is just as bad. Until rape becomes a routine interrogation technique for the DHS, leave the hyperbole at the door please.
| 565 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:56:57am |
re: #549 Dark_Falcon
Sounds like what Harold Washington campaigned as being able to do when he ran for mayor of Chicago. And guess who thrilled to his winning election in 1983 and moved to Chicago hoping to assist Washington in those goals? That's right, none other than Barack Obama! So by your logic, the president is no better than someone who supports Islamist candidates.
Now, I know you're not a Gellerite, DS, but your logic in this matter is highly suspect.
I want add here that I'm not using this post to criticize Barack Obama. My target was darthstar's rhetoric and how it could implicate people he did not intent it to implicate.
| 566 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 7:58:49am |
re: #556 Sergey Romanov
Sorry, who ever called the Morocco's new majority party terrorist? Or is it an accidental strawman?
I thought you were using Hamas as an example of other Islamists who do support their community.
re: #547 Sergey Romanov
Hamas is known for its "good" social work too. Doesn't mean it's better than the Republicans, overall.
Yep...that looks like Hamas alright. Granted, you are comparing Hamas to the Republicans (totally fair, by the way), but this implies the same logic be applied to Morocco v. GOP.
| 567 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:04:34am |
re: #561 darthstar
"Personhood" initiatives cannot be used against the US at this time since the one state to put one on the ballot so far rejected it. Even Mississippi cannot be blamed for a proposal they voted not to enact.
Voter ID: Mexico has voter ID cards (which are actually quite secure, so much so that when I worked for Sprint they were considered proof of Identification (they are actually more secure than many state's drivers licenses). It is used there to prevent fraud. Thus you'd have to come up with proof of malicious intent in passing a voter ID bill in order to make a case that it is motivated by bigotry.
That's two I've beaten you on, care to lose some more?
| 568 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:05:08am |
re: #562 Sergey Romanov
Oh, and this:
> In recent years Morocco's Islamists have cultivated an image as honest outsiders battling corruption and seeking to improve services, rather than focusing on moral issues such as whether women wear the Islamic headscarf.
Why are they called Islamists then?
I believe it has something to do with being followers of Islam. Kind of like followers of Christianity calling themselves "Christians" (nobody calls themselves "Christianists" - that's a term made up by people trying to distance themselves from extremists within their own faith). Note that they're not calling themselves "Radical Islamists" nor have we heard them call the US "Infidels" or call for the destruction of Israel.
| 569 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:05:31am |
re: #566 darthstar
I thought you were using Hamas as an example of other Islamists who do support their community.
Yep...that looks like Hamas alright. Granted, you are comparing Hamas to the Republicans (totally fair, by the way), but this implies the same logic be applied to Morocco v. GOP.
GAZE
| 570 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:06:26am |
re: #566 darthstar
I thought you were using Hamas as an example of other Islamists who do support their community.
I was using Hamas to show that "they do some good social stuff" is not a valid argument when you're comparing groups (or, rather, not a supervenient factor; all factors must be considered). I could go straight Godwin and say (correctly) that Hitler built a welfare state (which is why most Germans supported him), and I still would not be saying that Moroccan Islamist party is a bunch of Nazis. No, what I would be showing is invalidity of your argument.
| 571 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:07:32am |
re: #568 darthstar
I believe it has something to do with being followers of Islam.
Of course, "Islamist" does not mean "a follower of Islam". But don't let definitions stop your points.
| 572 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:11:08am |
re: #567 Dark_Falcon
That's two I've beaten you on, care to lose some more?
No, you didn't "beat" me on those. The bigots in the Republican leadership are losing because there are still more sane people than crazy people in this country. Now, apply that same logic to an Islamist party in Morocco which will not "control" its government without a coalition of non-Islamists working with them.
Checks and balances. It works here. It'll work there. So stop getting your panties in a twist worrying that some country you'll never visit has a majority of people from a different faith than you.
| 574 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:18:09am |
re: #572 darthstar
Unproven allegations, unwillingness to engage opposing arguments, ugly insults thrown without provocation: you've been taking notes from "OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin" haven't you?
| 575 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:18:27am |
re: #572 darthstar
So stop getting your panties in a twist worrying that some country you'll never visit has a majority of people from a different faith than you.
Tsk, tsk. That's a disingenous mischaracterization.
| 576 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:18:55am |
Hey, Gus.
| 578 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:23:04am |
re: #576 Sergey Romanov
Hey, Gus.
Gus, why the downdings? I didn't insult you or anything, so what gives?
| 579 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:24:48am |
re: #575 Sergey Romanov
Tsk, tsk. That's a disingenous mischaracterization.
It is indeed. I kept a calm tone throughout, hardly "getting [my] panties in a twist". I disagreed with his argument and supported my disagreement.
| 580 |
Daniel Ballard Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:26:27am |
Well crap. I overslept and missed the launch of curiosity. I see NASA got it up this time. :-)
| 581 |
Daniel Ballard Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:29:14am |
re: #579 Dark_Falcon
Yes you did keep a calm tone. And Gus I think is simply voicing disagreement with the dinger instead of jumping in.
| 582 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:33:53am |
re: #581 Rightwingconspirator
Yes you did keep a calm tone. And Gus I think is simply voicing disagreement with the dinger instead of jumping in.
I understand, but I don't like stealth-downdinging.
| 583 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:36:32am |
| 584 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:36:49am |
re: #582 Dark_Falcon
I understand, but I don't like stealth-dinging.
I think stealth-down-dinging is candy-ass behavoir. Stealth-updinging is the epitome of cool.
//
| 585 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:37:25am |
re: #584 rwdflynavy
I think stealth-down-dinging is candy-ass behavoir. Stealth-updinging is the epitome of cool.
//
Thumbs up
DAMMIT ,,, I just blew my 'cool" !!!
| 586 |
jvic Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:39:06am |
re: #582 Dark_Falcon
I understand, but I don't like stealth-dinging.
Ditto. Especially when it's also hit-and-run downdinging, i.e. downding and log off.
| 587 |
albusteve Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:39:48am |
re: #584 rwdflynavy
I think stealth-down-dinging is candy-ass behavoir. Stealth-updinging is the epitome of cool.
//
dingless is the ultimate perfection
| 588 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:41:57am |
| 589 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:43:56am |
re: #586 jvic
Ditto. Especially when it's also hit-and-run downdinging, i.e. downding and log off.
I don't fret about that
I just chalk that up in the WIN column!
| 590 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:44:13am |
re: #588 Sergey Romanov
That's why you call yourself Albuddhasteve?
When he calls the pizza place he says "Make me one with everything".
//
| 591 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:44:14am |
re: #575 Sergey Romanov
Tsk, tsk. That's a disingenous mischaracterization.
In DF's case, I think it's closer than I want it to be.
That said, we know almost nothing about the Moroccan party we're calling Islamist (I suspect they define themselves differently from the loaded labels we give them.). My wait and see attitude is no better (or worse) than the (and I'm not accusing you here, Sergey) they're Islamists so they're terrorists one.
I suspect the down dingers above are more upset with my not differentiating between radical Christians and the Black Friday Christians who only want to celebrate Christ's birth with $199 42" flat panel TVs and pepper spray. Fuck it, you can't please everybody...
BTW, according to internet rules, I won this debate in #570! :)
| 592 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:45:00am |
re: #590 rwdflynavy
When he calls the pizza place he says "Make me one with everything".
//
except pineapple
| 593 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:45:29am |
re: #590 rwdflynavy
When he calls the pizza place he says "Make me one with everything".
//
Except pineapple?
| 594 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:45:45am |
re: #592 rwdflynavy
heh
| 596 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:46:36am |
re: #595 sattv4u2
slow poke!
If I were writing that comment, I would include the exception right away! So who's the slowpoke here?! ///
| 597 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:47:35am |
I win.
You all lose.
Now, get off my internet.
:P
| 598 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:47:53am |
re: #582 Dark_Falcon
I understand, but I don't like stealth-downdinging.
Do you hear me bitching about getting downdinged? Did I downding you in retaliation? Fuck me, but that's silly.
| 599 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:48:05am |
re: #591 darthstar
There are no internet rules.
Also, I agree that the correct response is to wait and see, see my first comment to Killgore.
| 600 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:50:43am |
re: #598 darthstar
Do you hear me bitching about getting downdinged? Did I downding you in retaliation? Fuck me, but that's silly.
me'thinks DF was specifically commenting on getting downdinged without the engagement of dialog, therefore, not directed at you nor bitching
| 601 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:51:30am |
re: #598 darthstar
Do you hear me bitching about getting downdinged? Did I downding you in retaliation? Fuck me, but that's silly.
That comment was directed at Gus, not you. You actually posted and tried to explain at least some of your arguments. Thus, I would not have been as bothered if you had downdinged me.
| 602 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:53:33am |
I tend to only 'stealth' downding egregiously stupid posts.
| 603 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:54:12am |
| 604 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:54:40am |
re: #602 Varek Raith
I tend to only 'stealth' downding egregiously stupid posts.
Are you CRAZY
THOSE are the ones I MUST comment (sarcastically) on !!!
:)
| 605 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:55:08am |
re: #602 Varek Raith
I tend to only 'stealth' downding egregiously stupid posts.
This is my sop as well. I rarely downding even in an argument.
| 606 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:55:17am |
re: #574 Dark_Falcon
Unproven allegations, unwillingness to engage opposing arguments, ugly insults thrown without provocation: you've been taking notes from "OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin" haven't you?
Okay...you did earn one downding from me...and you were so proud of yourself for remaining calm and taking the "high road" too...this one just flew under the radar. If you have a problem with OCIHACOSP, be man enough to take it up with her directly. I'll let the rest of your "high road" tone in that post speak for itself.
| 607 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:55:17am |
re: #602 Varek Raith
I tend to only 'stealth' downding egregiously stupid posts.
I have this special precog ability to foresee which comment will become egregiously stupid in the future. I ding only them.
///
| 608 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:56:36am |
| 609 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:56:43am |
| 610 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:57:08am |
re: #609 Varek Raith
Screw the high road.
The low road is where all the fun is at, bitches.:P
You're always the bad guy in RPGs, aren't you? ;)
| 611 |
jvic Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:57:20am |
re: #597 Varek Raith
I win.
You all lose.
Now, get off my internet.
:P
You have taken my intellectual property (why? because I said so) and thereby attacked the ability of creators to be, um, creative. We need a law that will let me shut down this Website. /
| 612 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:58:18am |
re: #610 Sergey Romanov
You're always the bad guy in RPGs, aren't you? ;)
Indeed.
*Dark Side Points Gained*
*You Have Lost Karma!*
*Your actions have shifted your alignment 10 points towards evil*
| 614 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:59:15am |
re: #601 Dark_Falcon
That comment was directed at Gus, not you. You actually posted and tried to explain at least some of your arguments. Thus, I would not have been as bothered if you had downdinged me.
It's just a downding. It's not like he picked you LAST to be on his dodgeball team.
| 615 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 8:59:49am |
re: #606 darthstar
If you have a problem with OCIHACOSP, be man enough to take it up with her directly
He has,,multiple times , he just used that as a reference this time
| 616 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:00:13am |
re: #609 Varek Raith
Screw the high road.
The low road is where all the fun is at, bitches.:P
Good morning, Varek.
| 617 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:00:23am |
re: #614 darthstar
It's just a downding. It's not like he picked you LAST to be on his dodgeball team.
He did that too!
Now introducing...
When the Lizards were little - the new exciting TV series! ///
| 618 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:00:51am |
re: #617 Sergey Romanov
He did that too!
Now introducing...
When the Lizards were little - the new exciting TV series! ///
My ball,,, my choice!!!
| 619 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:01:34am |
My migraine is gone, so I'm dreadfully happy today.
:/
:P
| 620 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:01:36am |
| 621 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:02:13am |
SHOCKA
Bo Jackson picks Auburn to beat Alabama today
(Bo ,,,, War Eagle would need you to suit up,, IN YOUR PRIME,,,, for that to happen)
| 622 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:02:26am |
| 623 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:02:39am |
re: #619 Varek Raith
My migraine is gone, so I'm dreadfully happy today.
:/
:P
Oh no. I await havoc.
| 624 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:03:15am |
| 625 |
darthstar Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:05:54am |
re: #624 Sergey Romanov
Now, don't be a dick.
Okay, the thread has safely moved on to penises...life is good. I'll see you all later.
| 626 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:06:23am |
re: #625 darthstar
Okay, the thread has safely moved on to penises...life is good. I'll see you all later.
Climatic, huh?
| 627 |
prairiefire Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:07:50am |
re: #617 Sergey Romanov
He did that too!
Now introducing...
When the Lizards were little - the new exciting TV series! ///
I was always picked last. I remember the looks of resignation and the eye rolling of the team captains when it came down to me being the last person to be assigned to a team, by default, really.
I'm not very coordinated.
| 628 |
Kronocide Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:10:41am |
Our population and our use of the finite resources of planet Earth are growing exponentially, along with our technical ability to change the environment for good or ill. But our genetic code still carries the selfish and aggressive instincts that were of survival advantage in the past. It will be difficult enough to avoid disaster in the next hundred years, let alone the next thousand or million.
| 629 |
austin_blue Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:16:16am |
Morning all!
Almost an inch of rain last night! Yay!
| 630 |
Varek Raith Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:16:36am |
Time to catch up on all that sleep I lost.
Laters.
:)
| 631 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:18:45am |
Third day off in a row. I'm getting kinda bored. Shame on me!!
| 632 |
Lidane Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:25:31am |
re: #629 austin_blue
Morning all!
Almost an inch of rain last night! Yay!
I think it's hilarious that my tiny excuse for a lawn was dead and brown in June, but it's now lush and green in November thanks to the rain.
| 633 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:25:39am |
re: #631 Stanley Sea
Third day off in a row. I'm getting kinda bored. Shame on me!!
I need to write what the US National Security Strategy toward Somalia should be. Why don't you take a crack at that?
//
| 634 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:28:50am |
re: #633 rwdflynavy
I need to write what the US National Security Strategy toward Somalia should be. Why don't you take a crack at that?
//
Hunt down the bad guys
Save the good guys
Quit yer bitchin!!
//
| 635 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:31:12am |
re: #633 rwdflynavy
I need to write what the US National Security Strategy toward Somalia should be. Why don't you take a crack at that?
//
Yeah right! My brain says no.
| 636 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:33:40am |
| 637 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:34:10am |
| 638 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:37:59am |
re: #627 prairiefire
I was always picked last. I remember the looks of resignation and the eye rolling of the team captains when it came down to me being the last person to be assigned to a team, by default, really.
I'm not very coordinated.
Mr. EmmmieG does not understand why I consider dodgeball to be a form of child abuse.
Stand here, and bigger kids will throw balls really hard at you in an attempt to hit you.
My boys like dodgeball.
| 639 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:38:27am |
re: #636 rwdflynavy
Worth a shot.
I'm checking out the New York society pages comparing the different levels of facelifts. That's my extent of cerebral activity so far. It can only get better.
| 640 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:41:04am |
re: #639 Stanley Sea
I'm checking out the New York society pages comparing the different levels of facelifts. That's my extent of cerebral activity so far. It can only get better.
When you reach the econo-industrial strength facelifts, it's time to face aging gracefully.
| 641 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:41:22am |
| 642 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:42:40am |
re: #640 EmmmieG
When you reach the econo-industrial strength facelifts, it's time to face aging gracefully.
Did she have not ONE friend that knew the word STOP!!???
| 643 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:43:07am |
re: #640 EmmmieG
When you reach the econo-industrial strength facelifts, it's time to face aging gracefully.
Some of these ladies are messed up! But they wear some nice frocks.
| 644 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:43:37am |
re: #639 Stanley Sea
This is probably more interesting than my current activity, which is loading family photos from the hard drive to a thumb drive.
BTW, does anyone know how protective the Walmart fire safes are?
| 645 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:44:29am |
re: #644 EmmmieG
This is probably more interesting than my current activity, which is loading family photos from the hard drive to a thumb drive.
BTW, does anyone know how protective the Walmart fire safes are?
Whats the brand name?
| 646 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:45:50am |
re: #644 EmmmieG
re: #645 sattv4u2
Whats the brand name?
and whats the listed rating??
[Link: www.klsecurity.com...]
| 647 |
prairiefire Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:46:48am |
re: #638 EmmmieG
Yeah, I still let the guys cheat off of my tests. I was an early subversive.
| 648 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:49:27am |
Hmm. Mine is so old that the company web site no longer lists it.
A similar one lists a 1/2 hour protection time for CD's and USB drives.
Oh, and I'm mean. Nobody cheated off of my papers.
| 649 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:50:55am |
| 650 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:51:13am |
[Link: www.newyorksocialdiary.com...]
| 651 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:58:10am |
Hmm.
A 350 1/2 rating means that the internal temperature needs to not exceed 350 degrees for 1/2 hour.
This is the same time and degree as, um, brownies.
Interesting coincidence.
| 652 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Nov 26, 2011 9:59:10am |
re: #650 Stanley Sea
Actual human beings named Muffie.
Wow.
In my world, only cats are called Muffie.
| 653 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:05:24am |
re: #652 EmmmieG
Actual human beings named Muffie.
Wow.
In my world, only cats are called Muffie.
I once heard a woman named Muffie talking to a man named Cadwallader about how black people name their kids silly names.
| 654 |
albusteve Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:06:35am |
man I wish I was in Ann Arbor today for the Ohio St game....pretty close so far
| 655 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:06:43am |
Happy Small Business Saturday all!
I think every day between Thanksgiving and New Years will have a "special" name soon.
How is everyone?
| 656 |
makeitstop Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:07:31am |
re: #650 Stanley Sea
[Link: www.newyorksocialdiary.com...]
A lot of those pictures were taken by a friend of mine. He's got a pretty posh job.
| 657 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:07:47am |
re: #652 EmmmieG
Actual human beings named Muffie.
Wow.
In my world, only cats are called Muffie.
Ya, other than the facelifts and clothes, the ladies' 1st names are worth checking.
| 658 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:10:19am |
re: #656 makeitstop
A lot of those pictures were taken by a friend of mine. He's got a pretty posh job.
Wow, he's def got a great gig.
| 659 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:12:01am |
re: #398 ggt
Alright, Literary Lizards.
What are good novels that accurately portray Norse mythology as best as it is known?
Like, fantasy that uses the Norse myths as inspiration, or novels about the Norse, or...
| 661 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:14:04am |
re: #445 Obdicut
It's really, really, really, really stupid that this photograph is not only considered great art, but that it sold for 4.3 million:
I like it.
I wouldn't give you 4.3 million for it, mind ya.
| 662 |
Kronocide Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:16:03am |
re: #661 SanFranciscoZionist
I like it.
I wouldn't give you 4.3 million for it, mind ya.
I might do $400 with a nice frame. Great pic... but yeah, not that great.
| 663 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:16:21am |
re: #398 ggt
Alright, Literary Lizards.
What are good novels that accurately portray Norse mythology as best as it is known?
Kind of an impossible question, since Norse mythology varied by era and country. Pre-Christian norse Mythology is very different than post-Christian.
The main source we have for the Norse mythology is a Christianized version, Snorri's Edda. The other source, the Elder or Poetic Edda, is fragmented, with just some songs without a ton of context, and it has passed through a few sources as well.
| 664 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:16:42am |
re: #657 Stanley Sea
Ya, other than the facelifts and clothes, the ladies' 1st names are worth checking.
lots of generic blondes.
| 665 |
albusteve Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:16:42am |
re: #661 SanFranciscoZionist
I like it.
I wouldn't give you 4.3 million for it, mind ya.
"sky over the rio grande valley"
$50,000
[Link: jschumacher.typepad.com...]
| 666 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:16:57am |
re: #659 SanFranciscoZionist
Like, fantasy that uses the Norse myths as inspiration, or novels about the Norse, or...
novels
| 667 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:17:17am |
| 668 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:18:28am |
re: #663 Obdicut
Kind of an impossible question, since Norse mythology varied by era and country. Pre-Christian norse Mythology is very different than post-Christian.
The main source we have for the Norse mythology is a Christianized version, Snorri's Edda. The other source, the Elder or Poetic Edda, is fragmented, with just some songs without a ton of context, and it has passed through a few sources as well.
Yeah, I figured.
I was hoping there was a Colleen McCullough version for those historically disabled in Norsefu.
| 669 |
makeitstop Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:19:51am |
My wife and I made a quick trip out to the marina yesterday. I took my camera and got a lucky shot.
| 670 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:20:02am |
re: #665 albusteve
"sky over the rio grande valley"
$50,000
[Link: jschumacher.typepad.com...]
I like the name of this blog --it was one of the links and caught my eye.
:0
| 671 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:20:29am |
re: #456 000G
Heh. But usually one suffers in order to create great art, not from art.
There's a play called 'Art' which studies the impact on the relationship between three men after one of them buys a piece of art--at a hefty price--that is a canvas painted white.
The line I remember after all these years is something to the effect of, "Why do you care?" "Because I love Jacques, and I HATE that painting!!"
Toward the end, Jacques placates his friend by giving him a marker and letting him modify the painting. He draws a diagnonal across it, and adds a little cartoon skiier.
| 672 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:21:13am |
re: #668 ggt
There's just not enough known, unlike for Rome where we have voluminous commentary. The only really 'original' pagan texts are just inscriptions on stones, swords, armor, etc. And since the Eddas are such astonishingly powerful poetic works, they've tended to set the tone of Norse mythology even though everyone knows they were written in the post-Christian era, and that the Prose Edda especially retells the Norse myths with a Christian overlay. Snorri, the dude who wrote it, thought that the Norse gods were actually men who had become mythologized; not a bad theory, but it makes the presentation of the myths rather skewed in that direction.
| 673 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:22:38am |
re: #398 ggt
Alright, Literary Lizards.
What are good novels that accurately portray Norse mythology as best as it is known?
Kinda late on this but if fantasy will do, The Last Light of the Sun is exquisite look at that culture by Guy Gavriel Kay.
| 674 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:22:48am |
re: #665 albusteve
"sky over the rio grande valley"
$50,000
[Link: jschumacher.typepad.com...]
That BLUE me away!!
//
| 675 |
makeitstop Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:23:51am |
Excuse me. The leftovers are calling my name. BRB
| 676 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:24:27am |
| 677 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:26:39am |
re: #673 wlewisiii
Kinda late on this but if fantasy will do, The Last Light of the Sun is exquisite look at that culture by Guy Gavriel Kay.
NEVER too late for book talk.
Thank you.
| 678 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:28:12am |
re: #672 Obdicut
There's just not enough known, unlike for Rome where we have voluminous commentary. The only really 'original' pagan texts are just inscriptions on stones, swords, armor, etc. And since the Eddas are such astonishingly powerful poetic works, they've tended to set the tone of Norse mythology even though everyone knows they were written in the post-Christian era, and that the Prose Edda especially retells the Norse myths with a Christian overlay. Snorri, the dude who wrote it, thought that the Norse gods were actually men who had become mythologized; not a bad theory, but it makes the presentation of the myths rather skewed in that direction.
Snorri--
I wouldn't mind knowing what his life was like. With a name like that . . .
LOL
| 679 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:28:20am |
re: #669 makeitstop
My wife and I made a quick trip out to the marina yesterday. I took my camera and got a lucky shot.
How lucky you were to snap the photo just as the one in the middles head was exploding!!
//
| 680 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:29:07am |
re: #679 sattv4u2
How lucky you were to snap the photo just as the one in the meiddles head was exploding!!
//
you SO bad!
/
| 681 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:29:56am |
re: #678 ggt
Snorri--
I wouldn't mind knowing what his life was like. With a name like that . . .
LOL
Since in Old Norse it means "Savage attack", I doubt he got much crap for it.
| 682 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:30:14am |
re: #680 ggt
you SO bad!
/
My parents were clumsy
I got dropped often as a child
We didn't have carpeting!
| 683 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:32:02am |
re: #681 Obdicut
Since in Old Norse it means "Savage attack", I doubt he got much crap for it.
Like I inferred, he probably had an interesting life, by my standards.
:)
| 684 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:32:21am |
re: #682 sattv4u2
My parents were clumsy
I got dropped often as a child
We didn't have carpeting!
stone floor?
/:0
| 685 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:32:28am |
re: #679 sattv4u2
How lucky you were to snap the photo just as the one in the middles head was exploding!!
//
It was actually in the process of being eaten by a langolier.
| 686 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:33:35am |
| 687 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:34:18am |
re: #685 Sergey Romanov
It was actually in the process of being eaten by a langolier.
Vocabulary Word for the Day (don't think I actually remember these, BTW)
A langolier is a type of large orb shaped omnivorous organism, belonging to the genus pac man. They have huge mouths that make up almost half their entire bodies, and lined with several rows of extremely sharp chainsaw-like teeth.
The langolier's diet consists mainly of things from the past. It's also been suggested that langoliers tend to eat lazy humans who don't apply themselves.
Langolier's also exist in different dimensions, therefore all who wander outside of their dimension to another one, ultimately get eaten by langoliers.
| 688 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:35:05am |
re: #685 Sergey Romanov
It was actually in the process of being eaten by a langolier.
Should have had his towel?
:0
| 689 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:35:15am |
re: #687 ggt
lol
| 690 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:35:40am |
| 691 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:36:07am |
re: #499 CuriousLurker
You know, it's interesting that lostlakehiker doesn't seem to want to answer that question. I've been doing some research recently that necessitates digging into the LGF archives, something I'm not at all fond of doing as there are some threads which contain numerous comments that I find utterly sickening.
I could even point to one of the threads where such comments were occurring and lostlakehiker was a participant—NOT a participant in the ugly comments, just to be clear, but nonetheless obviously aware of what was being said. Strangely enough, none of those comments caused lostlakehiker to label LGF as a hate site, even though, in comparison, they make the comments that have occurred during the OWS arguments sound like kiddie slap fights during kindergarten recess.
Obviously, I could link to the thread in question or post quotes from the various comments, but I'm not going to as that sort of thing is better left dead & buried where it is, IMO. Still, I find it...odd, this aversion. Perhaps lostlakehiker—like others here who were around at the same time—has simply changed over the years and become more sensitive to that sort of self-degrading, hateful speech.
Anyway, back to my research for now...
I am going to comment, just in general, that there is a distinctly different emotional response to reading broad generalizations, cheap shots, mockery of mindset, and pile-ons from the perspective of one's own 'side' on things, and reading these things from the other 'side'. ('Side' being very loosely defined here, to mean 'my general opinion on one of a bazillion subjects'.)
I am acutely aware of this, since I've been pissed off at LGF now from both the left and the right, but know that when I am in my comfort zone, I can see all of the above, and find it perfectly fine.
Now, I don't know if that makes any sense, or changes anything for anyone, but it's something I've observed from the inside of my own head.
That said, if LGF wasn't a hate site in the old days, (not sure what the definition of that is, anyway), brother, it sure ain't now. But it does, actually, make a huge difference whose ox is being gored, to how you see what's going on a setting like this.
| 692 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:36:35am |
| 693 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:38:15am |
re: #691 SanFranciscoZionist
I am going to comment, just in general, that there is a distinctly different emotional response to reading broad generalizations, cheap shots, mockery of mindset, and pile-ons from the perspective of one's own 'side' on things, and reading these things from the other 'side'. ('Side' being very loosely defined here, to mean 'my general opinion on one of a bazillion subjects'.)
I am acutely aware of this, since I've been pissed off at LGF now from both the left and the right, but know that when I am in my comfort zone, I can see all of the above, and find it perfectly fine.
Now, I don't know if that makes any sense, or changes anything for anyone, but it's something I've observed from the inside of my own head.
That said, if LGF wasn't a hate site in the old days, (not sure what the definition of that is, anyway), brother, it sure ain't now. But it does, actually, make a huge difference whose ox is being gored, to how you see what's going on a setting like this.
I've noticed (more so in the past than now) that the most hateful gut responses were in the beginning of the thread. It was like people had to "get it out of their system" before any type of rational discussion could be pursued.
| 694 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:38:59am |
re: #517 Dark_Falcon
The protestors were not resisting, so the police should have reached down and hauled them away one by one.
Precisely.
No one enjoys doing this, but it's part of police work, and more fun than being sued for excessive force.
| 695 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:39:25am |
re: #692 Sergey Romanov
I'm sure it was Fluffy though.
That's the name I use in online first person shooters.
Back at EA, all the other testers were taking names like Blood Angel, and KillerKaine and DarkDreamer
So I took Fluffy.
| 696 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:39:39am |
| 697 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:40:19am |
re: #519 darthstar
And arrested them for legal assembly according to the US Constitution.
If you sit down blocking a public thoroughfare, you get arrested. This is why many people, when they want to get arrested, sit down blocking a public throroughfare. I've done it myself.
| 698 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:41:01am |
re: #694 SanFranciscoZionist
Precisely.
No one enjoys doing this, but it's part of police work, and more fun than being sued for excessive force.
And getting pepperspray all over people you're then going to have to touch is also just counterintuitive.
| 699 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:41:16am |
re: #529 Killgore Trout
I think they tried (not very hard) to haul them away in the original video. He tries to grab one chick by the arm and she pulls away. I think that has the only effort I saw to physically move them.
There is no try. There is only haul.
| 700 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:41:23am |
re: #695 Obdicut
That's the name I use in online first person shooters.
Back at EA, all the other testers were taking names like Blood Angel, and KillerKaine and DarkDreamer
So I took Fluffy.
Three-headed dog that guarded the basement of Hogwarts?
| 701 |
Obdicut Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:41:53am |
re: #700 ggt
Three-headed dog that guarded the basement of Hogwarts?
Amazingly, this was pre-Harry Potter.
| 702 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:42:46am |
re: #701 Obdicut
Amazingly, this was pre-Harry Potter.
Well, if you sue Rowling for this, it will still have more merit than all the other plagiarism lawsuits she's had ;)
| 703 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:48:03am |
All right, I have to be productive.
Have a great afternoon all!
| 704 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:48:36am |
re: #638 EmmmieG
Mr. EmmmieG does not understand why I consider dodgeball to be a form of child abuse.
Stand here, and bigger kids will throw balls really hard at you in an attempt to hit you.
My boys like dodgeball.
Dodgeball is one of those things, like BDSM, that's only abusive if you don't want to play.
If you're a willing participant, and can get out when you want to, some people find it fun.
| 705 |
makeitstop Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:49:16am |
re: #679 sattv4u2
How lucky you were to snap the photo just as the one in the middles head was exploding!!
//
Yeah, I usually can't catch that. ;)
| 706 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:51:33am |
re: #663 Obdicut
Kind of an impossible question, since Norse mythology varied by era and country. Pre-Christian norse Mythology is very different than post-Christian.
The main source we have for the Norse mythology is a Christianized version, Snorri's Edda. The other source, the Elder or Poetic Edda, is fragmented, with just some songs without a ton of context, and it has passed through a few sources as well.
Well, the problem with the Norse stories is the same as that with all the Celtic mythologies--they were first written down by Christians, albeit Christians who were very into them. But between that and the archaelogical evidence, we got some clue about Norse mythology.
| 707 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:56:21am |
re: #666 ggt
novels
Hmm. The sagas are novel-like, and mostly available in paperback from Penguin, but they don't tend to be overly involved in the myths. They're stories about families, battles, revenge, that kind of thing. Very good reading. Often taking place in the era in which Norse indigenous religion and Christianity were coexisting. There's an interesting scene in one of them, when something's been stolen, and people are asking around to see if anyone knows a spell to reveal stolen things. One woman says she has one from her mother, but she's a Christian, and won't do such things now. Someone else asks if she would teach him the chant so he can do it, and she thinks that would be OK. IIRC.
I'm not sure that there have been a lot of good novels written in English about the Norse. Rosemary Sutcliff wrote some YA stuff.
| 708 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:57:33am |
re: #678 ggt
Snorri--
I wouldn't mind knowing what his life was like. With a name like that . . .
LOL
Quite a common Norse man's name--no one would have blinked.
| 709 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:58:08am |
re: #683 ggt
Like I inferred, he probably had an interesting life, by my standards.
:)
"They didn't call him Erik Bloodaxe because he was good with children."
| 710 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Nov 26, 2011 10:59:18am |
re: #698 Obdicut
And getting pepperspray all over people you're then going to have to touch is also just counterintuitive.
:)
| 711 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Nov 26, 2011 12:19:42pm |
re: #691 SanFranciscoZionist
I am going to comment, just in general, that there is a distinctly different emotional response to reading broad generalizations, cheap shots, mockery of mindset, and pile-ons from the perspective of one's own 'side' on things, and reading these things from the other 'side'. ('Side' being very loosely defined here, to mean 'my general opinion on one of a bazillion subjects'.)
I am acutely aware of this, since I've been pissed off at LGF now from both the left and the right, but know that when I am in my comfort zone, I can see all of the above, and find it perfectly fine.
Now, I don't know if that makes any sense, or changes anything for anyone, but it's something I've observed from the inside of my own head.
That said, if LGF wasn't a hate site in the old days, (not sure what the definition of that is, anyway), brother, it sure ain't now. But it does, actually, make a huge difference whose ox is being gored, to how you see what's going on a setting like this.
Perfectly stated. Damn, you're good. ;)
Now, if only everyone could remember that the next time they've just finished goring someone else's ox, instead of pointing fingers and bitching about how hypocritical, partisan, or otherwise imperfect the those on the "other side" are.
Old Persian idiom: He has four eyes for others, but is blind to himself.
| 712 |
Origuy Sun, Nov 27, 2011 9:46:42am |
Not very true to the sagas, but Fletcher Pratt and L Sprague De Camp's Harold Shea story "The Roaring Trumpet" is a fun look at Norse mythology. It's in one of the Incomplete Enchanter books, classic fantasy humor. The origin of the phrase "Yngvi is a louse."
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