Does Rick Perry Know Anything?

The GOP clown show continues
Wingnuts • Views: 23,981

In the Republican Party three-ring presidential circus, it’s the Rick Perry clown’s turn to perform: While defending himself, Perry steps in it again.

(CNN) – Rick Perry sought to defend a recent gaffe in an interview Wednesday, but in the same appearance made another.

On Tuesday, the Republican presidential candidate incorrectly said the voting age in the U.S. is 21 instead of 18 and that the 2012 presidential election is on Nov. 12 instead of Nov. 6, mistakes Perry characterized as human error.

“Look I’m a human being … I’m going to make some mistakes from time to time in my remarks,” Perry said on Fox News.

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247 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:00:17am

It's not the gaffe I worry about, it's a pattern of them and that this suggests to me he doesn't value young voters at all.

2 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:01:25am

Muslim Brotherhood says wants to form gov't

Partial results Wednesday showed the Muslim Brotherhood emerging as the biggest winner in Egypt's landmark parliamentary elections, and leaders of the once-banned Islamic group demanded to form the next government, setting the stage for a possible confrontation with the ruling military.

3 Batman  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:03:05am

I believe he's made three memory mistakes so far. Let's see, there's the voting age one, the date of the election one, and… um… okay… the third one is… let's see… okay it'll come to me. Whoops.

4 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:05:38am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

as the last line implies it doesn't really matter much, the military isn't going to give up control no matter what.

5 thatthatisis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:06:36am

Rick Perry apparently knows how to move from table to table at fundraisers, smiling and saying hello to paying guests, as he slaps them on the back. And he knows how to send large contracts to the biggest contributors.

Those skills appear to be quite important in Texas politics.

6 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:07:04am

But you have to remember, to the people whose votes he is courting, ignorance is a plus. It means he's not one of those 'elitist liberals destroying America.'

7 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:07:04am

When watching these candidates, it if fairly clear to me that many of them do not have any kind of grasp of the issues they speak about. I don't mind gaffes, whatever. But Watching Herman, and Rick Perry and Romney, and others one gets the feeling that they have not thought about these issues, they have memorized talking points and positions that they are supposed to adopt. To be honest, other than Huntsman, I am not sure any of these folks have an honest held belief in their bones. Actually I take that back. Bachmann I believe does have very strong honestly held beliefs on most subjects, but those beliefs are so unbelievably insane that I don't count her.

8 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:07:16am

re: #1 HappyWarrior

Republicans are all about appealing to the old, not sure that's ever gonna change :p

9 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:08:04am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Muslim Brotherhood says wants to form gov't

Saw that this morning. Been trying to ignore it. Super scary stuff.

At any rate, I've decided that if I was a crazy wingnut, I'd vote for Perry, even despite his religious schtick. His screw-ups are becoming endearing to me. My favorite line of his, when he forgot "the third thing", he said something to the effect, "When you're standing next to someone as good looking as Mitt Romney, you tend to forget things." Isn't that like the cutest thing you ever heard?

10 recusancy  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:08:23am

The supposedly moderate Huntsman calls the woman accusing Cain of sexual assault bimbos.
[Link: thehill.com...]

11 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:08:49am

But...but...57 States!1!1TY

12 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:09:11am

re: #7 Petero1818

well really, that's the ghost that's been haunting the GOP since Reagan at least (or more likely nixon).

13 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:09:59am

re: #11 Alouette

can you imagine if we let our territories become states with full rights (altho it won't happen because then they'd have like labor laws)?

All those brownish people allowed to vote!

14 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:10:02am

re: #10 recusancy

The supposedly moderate Huntsman calls the woman accusing Cain of sexual assault bimbos.
[Link: thehill.com...]

Oy vay iz mir.

15 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:10:46am

re: #10 recusancy

The supposedly moderate Huntsman calls the woman accusing Cain of sexual assault bimbos.
[Link: thehill.com...]

While the term bimbo is unfortunate I found the folowing:
"Betsey Wright coined the term "bimbo eruptions" to describe rumors alleging extramarital affairs by Clinton in 1992. It's a reference. It is a commonly used term in the media:"

16 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:10:46am

re: #10 recusancy

The supposedly moderate Huntsman calls the woman accusing Cain of sexual assault bimbos.
[Link: thehill.com...]

LOL Oh dear.

Meanwhile, they all say they want to talk about the issues that matter, but they don't do that either. None of them have a comprehensive, workable plan to get us out of any of the current messes we're in.

17 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:10:52am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Muslim Brotherhood says wants to form gov't

It's a bit early to be forming a government, isn't it? I mean, only part of the country has even voted. That being said, if the Brotherhood, as is widely expected, do win the most seats, then it's not unreasonable for them to feel entitled to try and form a government. And, being fair, it doesn't seem very democratic to have parliamentary elections, but then basically say the results don't mean anything because the military is still going to call the shots.

18 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:11:17am

The 26th Amendment was ratified 40 years ago.

As someone said last night, 40 years is a long time to not notice something.

19 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:12:21am

re: #10 recusancy

Had you forgotten that phrase coming into popular use a few Presidents ago? Besides, a woman that knowingly has a 13 year affair with a married man might deserve the term.

20 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:13:14am

re: #18 makeitstop

The 26th Amendment was ratified 40 years ago.

As someone said last night, 40 years is a long time to not notice something.

Tell that to Herman Cain, he was talking about China not having nuclear weapons. I'm just waiting for one of them to call Russia the Soviet Union. I know it's coming.

21 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:13:48am

re: #17 Simply Sarah

It's a bit early to be forming a government, isn't it? I mean, only part of the country has even voted. That being said, if the Brotherhood, as is widely expected, do win the most seats, then it's not unreasonable for them to feel entitled to try and form a government. And, being fair, it doesn't seem very democratic to have parliamentary elections, but then basically say the results don't mean anything because the military is still going to call the shots.

In short, things could be a hellofa lot worse than Mubarak. We have to wait and see.

22 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:14:12am

re: #10 recusancy

The supposedly moderate Huntsman calls the woman accusing Cain of sexual assault bimbos.
[Link: thehill.com...]

Oh, that is moderate for our culture. Extreme would be calling them w***es and gold diggers.

23 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:14:12am

re: #19 Rightwingconspirator

only if they're also willing to call the guy a manslut, or something equivalent.

maybe Horndog.

24 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:14:55am

re: #20 HappyWarrior

Tell that to Herman Cain, he was talking about China not having nuclear weapons. I'm just waiting for one of them to call Russia the Soviet Union. I know it's coming.

Been there. Done that.

BACHMANN: What people recognize is that there's a fear that the United States is in an unstoppable decline. They see the rise of China, the rise of India, the rise of the Soviet Union and our loss militarily going forward. And especially with this very bad debt ceiling bill, what we have done is given a favor to President Obama and the first thing he'll whack is five hundred billion out of the military defense at a time when we're fighting three wars. People recognize that.

25 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:15:08am

re: #23 windsagio

only if they're also willing to call the guy a manslut, or something equivalent.

maybe Horndog.

What? No mimbo?

26 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:15:21am

re: #21 marjoriemoon

well again, Mubarak was just a figurehead, the same people are in actual control as were a year ago.

There's absolutely no reason to believe they're going to let any uppity civilians change that.

27 recusancy  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:15:36am

re: #19 Rightwingconspirator

Had you forgotten that phrase coming into popular use a few Presidents ago? Besides, a woman that knowingly has a 13 year affair with a married man might deserve the term.

Being that I was about 10 or 12 at the time, no.

28 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:15:37am

re: #25 marjoriemoon

What? No mimbo?

I... had honestly never heard that term before :p

29 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:15:49am

re: #24 JasonA

Been there. Done that.

Okay, so it's out.

The woman is a time lord.

30 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:16:00am

re: #23 windsagio

only if they're also willing to call the guy a manslut, or something equivalent.

maybe Horndog.

Lying cheating asshole fits.

31 DodgerFan1988  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:16:15am

It's not a mistake. Giving misinformation on when to vote is part if the Conservatives playbook to suppress voter turnout.

32 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:16:50am

re: #25 marjoriemoon

What? No mimbo?

Or 'himbo?' :)

33 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:16:55am

re: #24 JasonA

Been there. Done that.

Had a feeling it would be her since there's commies in Michele's bathroom just below the stairs.

34 recusancy  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:17:09am

re: #23 windsagio

only if they're also willing to call the guy a manslut, or something equivalent.

maybe Horndog.

But he's calling the women he actually assaulted bimbos. Not just the person who willingly had an affair with Cain. Why do the victims get to be called bimbos?

35 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:17:31am

re: #21 marjoriemoon

In short, things could be a hellofa lot worse than Mubarak. We have to wait and see.

I think that for those living outside Egypt, it was fairly clear from the start that the result would likely be worse than under Mubarak. But from the domestic perspective, from the perspective of those Egyptians who were disenfranchised and put down, Mubarak was a known quantity, and the jury will remain out for a while on what comes next for them.

36 kirkspencer  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:17:52am

re: #21 marjoriemoon

In short, things could be a hellofa lot worse than Mubarak. We have to wait and see.

Well, yes. This is the selling point of conservatism, of course: the future might be worse, so let's hold onto the present (if not return to the past).

note I'm using conservatism as antonym to progressivism, not liberalism, though the two latter terms are often interchanged. The progressive's selling point is the future might be better than the present.

37 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:17:58am

re: #19 Rightwingconspirator

Had you forgotten that phrase coming into popular use a few Presidents ago? Besides, a woman that knowingly has a 13 year affair with a married man might deserve the term.

I'm not entirely sure how a phrase entering popular use impacts how appropriate it is.

And I'll hold my tongue on the latter statement, since I'm not really up for where that could go right now.

38 JAFO  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:18:09am

Rick Perry on New Hampshire...

"We’re going to be talking about it, and we’re going to be talking about that in harsh and strong terms over the course of the next four to five weeks as we get ready for those New Hampshire caucuses," he said.

Only problem is that New Hampshire holds a primary. It's Iowa that holds caucuses.

39 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:18:13am

re: #26 windsagio

well again, Mubarak was just a figurehead, the same people are in actual control as were a year ago.

There's absolutely no reason to believe they're going to let any uppity civilians change that.

Mubarak's party is running also, from what I understand. I have very little hope that anything will change, quite frankly. And the chances of the MB having a position in the government is quite high, even if they don't win.

40 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:18:25am

re: #17 Simply Sarah

It's a bit early to be forming a government, isn't it? I mean, only part of the country has even voted. That being said, if the Brotherhood, as is widely expected, do win the most seats, then it's not unreasonable for them to feel entitled to try and form a government. And, being fair, it doesn't seem very democratic to have parliamentary elections, but then basically say the results don't mean anything because the military is still going to call the shots.

It's an almost impossible situation. The military can't hand the country over to to the MB even if they did win elections. The military is going to be the first to pay the price for shipping weapons into Gaza and otherwise messing with Israel. Continued civil unrest must be really killing the Egyptian economy which relies on tourism. Things are really heating up with Iran, it's bad timing.

41 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:18:53am

re: #28 windsagio

I... had honestly never heard that term before :p

Seinfeld reference :)

42 justaminute  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:19:12am

I wonder what they call Gingrich's wife? She used to be the other woman in Gingrich's marriage. These candidate's live in a lot of glass houses.

43 recusancy  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:19:16am

re: #36 kirkspencer

Well, yes. This is the selling point of conservatism, of course: the future might be worse, so let's hold onto the present (if not return to the past).

note I'm using conservatism as antonym to progressivism, not liberalism, though the two latter terms are often interchanged. The progressive's selling point is the future might be better than the present.

And it almost always is.

44 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:19:59am

re: #34 recusancy

But he's calling the women he actually assaulted bimbos. Not just the person who willingly had an affair with Cain. Why do the victims get to be called bimbos?

I don't think that is clear from his comments, at least not to me. He is using the term in reference to the "latest" allegations, which are of course of infidelity and not sexual harassment.

45 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:20:33am

re: #42 justaminute

I wonder what they call Gingrich's wife? She used to be the other woman in Gingrich's marriage. These candidate's live in a lot of glass houses.

I call her 'Cruella DeVille.'

46 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:21:07am

re: #34 recusancy

But he's calling the women he actually assaulted bimbos. Not just the person who willingly had an affair with Cain. Why do the victims get to be called bimbos?

because clearly they were asking for it.

You know women, they always say 'no' when they mean 'yes'.

47 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:22:16am

re: #36 kirkspencer

Well, yes. This is the selling point of conservatism, of course: the future might be worse, so let's hold onto the present (if not return to the past).

note I'm using conservatism as antonym to progressivism, not liberalism, though the two latter terms are often interchanged. The progressive's selling point is the future might be better than the present.

I don't think you can really call what Mubarak was "conservatism". Dictatorships are not conservative. At least I don't see it that way. Even "liberal" Islamic rule, like in Dubai, I wouldn't call "liberalism". To so so would pretty much make those terms meaningless in my view.

48 leftynyc  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:23:07am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Muslim Brotherhood says wants to form gov't

My money is on the military in that scenario.

49 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:25:03am

re: #47 marjoriemoon

I don't think you can really call what Mubarak was "conservatism". Dictatorships are not conservative. At least I don't see it that way. Even "liberal" Islamic rule, like in Dubai, I wouldn't call "liberalism". To so so would pretty much make those terms meaningless in my view.

Well, dictators and other authoritarian governments tend to be "conservative" in the sense that they want to preserve the status quo with them in power. That's about the extent of it.

50 recusancy  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:25:15am

re: #47 marjoriemoon

I don't think you can really call what Mubarak was "conservatism". Dictatorships are not conservative. At least I don't see it that way. Even "liberal" Islamic rule, like in Dubai, I wouldn't call "liberalism". To so so would pretty much make those terms meaningless in my view.

I don't think you understood what kirk was saying.

51 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:26:01am

re: #50 recusancy

I don't think you understood what kirk was saying.

That's entirely possible :)

52 leftynyc  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:26:39am

re: #19 Rightwingconspirator

Had you forgotten that phrase coming into popular use a few Presidents ago? Besides, a woman that knowingly has a 13 year affair with a married man might deserve the term.

You're right. I called Monica Lewinsky a tramp for sleeping with a married man so that covers Ms. White as well. As it does the currrent Mrs. Gingrich.

53 zora  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:27:34am

re: #42 justaminute

I wonder what they call Gingrich's wife? She used to be the other woman in Gingrich's marriage. These candidate's live in a lot of glass houses.

first bimbo?/

54 What, me worry?  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:27:51am

Crap, I gotta go! I'll check back with you guys in a bit.

Btw, sleeping with another woman's husband is worse than bimbo, although what does that make him? Cain actually is a bigger slut than any of them.

55 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:28:22am

re: #52 leftynyc

you know generally I don't like to let men off the hook by saying that their sexual hijinks are based on some mental problem or illness, but...

Man when you look back, Bill had issues about sex.

56 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:28:42am

re: #54 marjoriemoon

Crap, I gotta go! I'll check back with you guys in a bit.

Btw, sleeping with another woman's husband is worse than bimbo, although what does that make him? Cain actually is a bigger slut than any of them.

asshole? Dicking around on your wfie for another woman for thirteen years is an asshole move.

57 kirkspencer  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:28:46am

re: #51 marjoriemoon

That's entirely possible :)

To clarify, I wasn't saying Mubarak's position was conservative.

I was saying that wanting to keep Mubarak in charge because the alternative might be worse is conservative. The alternative, progressive position would be that getting rid of Mubarak might be better.

58 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:29:56am

re: #55 windsagio

you know generally I don't like to let men off the hook by saying that their sexual hijinks are based on some mental problem or illness, but...

Man when you look back, Bill had issues about sex.

If you mean in the sense that he seemed (Who knows about now) to feel entitled to it, then I agree with you.

59 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:32:51am

re: #45 makeitstop

I call her 'Cruella DeVille.'


Mars Attacks!

60 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:32:53am

re: #54 marjoriemoon

Crap, I gotta go! I'll check back with you guys in a bit.

Btw, sleeping with another woman's husband is worse than bimbo, although what does that make him? Cain actually is a bigger slut than any of them.

Cain is the one who made a vow and broke it. Ms. White never made any promises to Mrs. Cain.

Still, not okay all around.

61 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:34:06am

re: #34 recusancy

I think he was referring to the phenomenon with an old phrase not the women personally. The term comes from a past candidate that was beset with a series of women he did have affairs with. Jennifer Flowers et al.


"We’ve got real issues to talk about, not the latest bimbo eruption," Huntsman said to the Boston Herald on Wednesday.

Wasn't the latest the one he had the long affair with? Or did I miss yet another one in the news?

62 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:34:47am

re: #59 WindUpBird


Mars Attacks!

That'll work, too.

63 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:36:44am

Update: Report: Mysterious blast in Iran's Isfahan damaged key nuclear site

London Times quotes Israel intelligence officials as saying that satellite images show this week's reported blast in Isfahan was 'no accident.'

This is the second incident in a month. The Israelis either have enough intel to stop Iran's nuke program or they're getting desperate because the clock is running out.

64 zora  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:36:51am

Newt Gingrich On Fox News: I Have To 'Know What I'm Talking About' Now That I'm Not On Network (VIDEO)

"One of the real changes that comes when you start running for President -- as opposed to being an analyst on Fox -- is I have to actually know what I'm talking about," he said. The woman let out a startled laugh, and the audience joined in. "It's a severe limitation," Gingrich added.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

66 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:38:20am

Ohhkay. I should have gone and looked up what Huntsman said. He wasn't specifically attacking any of the accusers, he was saying that he wanted to discuss issues, and not whether or not Cain has just had a bimbo eruption.

(And this latest one is a "bimbo eruption," if we define that term to mean women who cheated with coming forward. I don't think that the previous women were bimbo eruptions. Huntsman should clarify what he means.)

67 leftynyc  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:38:32am

re: #55 windsagio

you know generally I don't like to let men off the hook by saying that their sexual hijinks are based on some mental problem or illness, but...

Man when you look back, Bill had issues about sex.

I don't let Clinton or Cain off the hook - the women are showing a disrespect to their own gender but the husbands are the ones who made vows.

68 Bulworth  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:39:18am

Well, at least he owns up to being a "human being". Although such an admission might be considered too soft for the red blood eating Limbaughites in the party.

69 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:39:22am

re: #58 Simply Sarah

its just the scale of his infidelity is kind of mindblowing.

70 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:40:19am

re: #69 windsagio

its just the scale of his infidelity is kind of mindblowing.

I'm surprised Mrs. Cain recognized him when she ran into him in the hallways. Was the man never home?

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:40:28am

re: #62 makeitstop

That'll work, too.

BONK BONK!

BONK


bonk bonk

72 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:41:12am

re: #66 EmmmieG

Ohhkay. I should have gone and looked up what Huntsman said. He wasn't specifically attacking any of the accusers, he was saying that he wanted to discuss issues, and not whether or not Cain has just had a bimbo eruption.

(And this latest one is a "bimbo eruption," if we define that term to mean women who cheated with coming forward. I don't think that the previous women were bimbo eruptions. Huntsman should clarify what he means.)

Well, I have major issues with the use of the term in general, regardless of who or what is being targeted.

73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:41:39am

re: #66 EmmmieG

bimbo eruption is a funny turn of phrase, that should be used for something more deserving like an American Idol tryout :D

74 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:42:12am

re: #72 Simply Sarah

Well, I have major issues with the use of the term in general, regardless of who or what is being targeted.

How about "dumbass tectonic event"? :D

75 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:42:18am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Its an interesting PR move there. "That accident was totally not an accident! But we're also not saying we did it! *hint hint*"

Hell it could be an accident, and they're just trying to freak Iran out.

re: #65 Killgore Trout

You know, there was a lot of discussion on NPR yesterday that the Iran riot the other day was a rent-a-mob. I kind of suspect that the Iranian gov't is trying to make some incidents happen because they know that emnity with the west is the only thing that can keep either conservative faction (the pres or the mullahs) in power.

76 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:42:32am

Look at all the women that JFK had affairs with! Did that harm him politically?

77 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:42:43am

re: #72 Simply Sarah

Well, I have major issues with the use of the term in general, regardless of who or what is being targeted.

Well, if you object to the term, that's one thing. But it does have a history in US politics and a specific meaning in that sense.

You could call it a bit tasteless, especially since it seems to put all the blame on the women. They're the ones "erupting".

What if we said Cain has a zipper problem? That seems to be the case.

78 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:43:00am

re: #69 windsagio

its just the scale of his infidelity is kind of mindblowing.

Well, there are reasons I'm not exactly a fan of Bill.

79 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:43:55am

re: #22 Simply Sarah

Oh, that is moderate for our culture. Extreme would be calling them w***es and gold diggers.

Wenches?

/

80 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:44:10am

"He was described to his betters as a xenolith of goonery, a dipshit wrapped inside of a buttmunch"

81 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:44:21am

For you too young to have been there

Betsey Ross Wright (b. July 4, 1943[1]) is an American lobbyist, activist, and political consultant who worked more than a decade for Bill Clinton in Arkansas.[2][3][4] She served as chief of staff to Governor Clinton for seven years. As deputy chair of the 1992 Clinton presidential campaign, Wright established the rapid response system that was responsible for defending Clinton's record in Arkansas and promptly answering all personal attacks on the candidate.[5] During the 1992 campaign, Wright coined the term "bimbo eruptions" to describe rumors alleging extramarital affairs by Clinton.[3] In the 1990s, Wright was an executive for The Wexler Group, a lobbying firm in Washington, D.C.[2] She currently resides in Rogers, Arkansas.[1][3]

82 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:46:13am

re: #75 windsagio

Its an interesting PR move there. "That accident was totally not an accident! But we're also not saying we did it! *hint hint*"

Hell it could be an accident, and they're just trying to freak Iran out.

re: #65 Killgore Trout

You know, there was a lot of discussion on NPR yesterday that the Iran riot the other day was a rent-a-mob. I kind of suspect that the Iranian gov't is trying to make some incidents happen because they know that emnity with the west is the only thing that can keep either conservative faction (the pres or the mullahs) in power.

I'm almost certain it was a rent-a-mob. Probably Basij militia members. My guess is they were trying to create patriotic nostalgia about the revolution and the taking of the American embassy in '78(?). I think they also know that serious sanctions and military strikes are inevitable at this point so diplomatic relations aren't important to maintain.

83 Lidane  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:46:27am

*sigh*

It annoys me that Rick Perry keeps getting re-elected. I'm tired of looking at him. I hope all this failure gets him to retire.

84 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:46:47am

Hey, look at all the women that King Henry VIII married/had affairs with/cut heads off of!

86 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:47:20am

re: #55 windsagio

you know generally I don't like to let men off the hook by saying that their sexual hijinks are based on some mental problem or illness, but...

Man when you look back, Bill had issues about sex.

The problem with Cain isn't his infidelity, it's that his campaign apparatus had organic brain disorder, and ran around peeing in the corners of the campaign headquarters instead of actually, you know, running stuff

He can't run his campaign and he wants to run the country? nnno. :D

87 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:48:44am

re: #18 makeitstop

The 26th Amendment was ratified 40 years ago.

As someone said last night, 40 years is a long time to not notice something.

You'd think he would remember, because that was around the time he turned 21. It would be hard not to notice that at the same time you reached the age that you could register, suddenly kids younger than you could too. And as you may recall, it was a big deal in the news both before it happened and when it happened.

88 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:49:06am

re: #77 EmmmieG

Well, if you object to the term, that's one thing. But it does have a history in US politics and a specific meaning in that sense.

You could call it a bit tasteless, especially since it seems to put all the blame on the women. They're the ones "erupting".

What if we said Cain has a zipper problem? That seems to be the case.

I half want to say that's at least a step in the right direction, but it also bothers me that on the one hand women are a "bimbo explosion", but the men simply have sex and zipper problems.

I suppose by this point, no one here is surprised that I'm being hard-assed about language I find offensive, especially when there's a feminist angle I can take. Maybe I should ask Charles to create a script that will automatically add a post expressing my disapproval whenever certain words are used.

89 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:49:45am

re: #85 Killgore Trout

probably from someone's office?

people work in those embassies, and I dunno, maybe they're allowed to hang stuff on the walls


I have a friend with Actual Security Clearances Who Has a Doctorate in Secret Government Mathematics and he has furry art on his desk

90 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:50:11am

re: #86 WindUpBird

Cain was a stunt candidacy anyways.

The GOP wanted a token black guy so they looked less racist, but there was absolutely no chance of him winning from the start.

To that end it didn't matter how well his campaign was run, people were gettin' paid either way. If anything the GOP is probably glad they have an excuse to dump him.

Edit: And I think Cain knew he couldn't win. I'd look for some palin-style 'PACs' in the next few years with him.

91 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:51:52am

Netherlands recalls its ambassador in Tehran

Berlin and Paris have also recalled their ambassadors.

92 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:52:11am

re: #79 wrenchwench

Wenches?

/

That would at least demonstrate some level of creativity. That or spending too much time at Ren Fairs.

93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:52:13am

re: #90 windsagio

Cain was a stunt candidacy anyways.

The GOP wanted a token black guy so they looked less racist, but there was absolutely no chance of him winning from the start.

To that end it didn't matter how well his campaign was run, people were gettin' paid either way. If anything the GOP is probably glad they have an excuse to dump him.

Prop him up for a while, then he teeters, then we can get back to fat-white-retiree-tricorn-hat-approved candidates, totally :D

LOOK WE GAVE THE BLACK GUY A SHOT now back to normal GOP fare where we talk about eliminating child labor laws and praise executions for drug possession

94 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:52:20am

re: #88 Simply Sarah

I half want to say that's at least a step in the right direction, but it also bothers me that on the one hand women are a "bimbo explosion", but the men simply have sex and zipper problems.

I suppose by this point, no one here is surprised that I'm being hard-assed about language I find offensive, especially when there's a feminist angle I can take. Maybe I should ask Charles to create a script that will automatically add a post expressing my disapproval whenever certain words are used.

I absolutely agree that it is offensive that if a married man has sex with a mistress and somehow she's to blame.

Himbo doesn't actually cover it, though, because of Cain's aggressiveness and the fact that he seemed to use a woman's distress as a lever over her.

Not sure I have a word.

95 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:52:51am

re: #86 WindUpBird

What is starting to make me laugh is those who are saying or implying Cain is in all this trouble because he is black. how about maybe many are just holding a selfish man accountable for his actions?

"" KRAUTHAMMER: But does race have any part of that? Establishment, maverick, yes. What about race?

CAIN: Relative to the left, I believe race is a bigger driving factor. I don’t think it’s a driving factor on the right. This is just based upon our speculation.

This is reprehensible, the sort of racial inflammation that, when practiced by the left, infuriates conservatives. Who is he accusing of racism — the Politico reporters? The women who made the claims in the 1990s? The media for covering allegations that he admitted were true (e.g., his employer settled at least one sexual harassment claim)?

Cain and his defenders, like actors in a theatrical tragedy, are falling prey to the very evil they labored against: the propensity to assign political identity by race and to invoke race to shield one from personal responsibility. Cain is in trouble because he didn’t handle a past claim that even a political novice would know would come to light.

96 justaminute  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:53:07am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

France recalls ambassador from Iran, pushes tougher sanctions

That is good news. The latest eruption against the British Embassy show they are on a short fuse. Those 'students" were the Besiji. They are the 'flying monkeys' of the government. Sanctions with teeth on them and isolating Syria is working. The Government is slinging accusations around left and right. If only we could stop Russia and China from interceding on Iran's behalf we might get somewhere.

97 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:53:12am

re: #94 EmmmieG

HIMBO!

awesome

98 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:53:29am

For the geeky Jewish boy on Hanukkah:

[Link: www.makershed.com...]

99 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:53:43am

re: #89 WindUpBird

probably from someone's office?

people work in those embassies, and I dunno, maybe they're allowed to hang stuff on the walls

I have a friend with Actual Security Clearances Who Has a Doctorate in Secret Government Mathematics and he has furry art on his desk

Could be. The article also says that Brits use their embassies as sort of art galleries and often have collections of contemporary images as well.

100 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:54:00am

re: #94 EmmmieG

I absolutely agree that it is offensive that if a married man has sex with a mistress and somehow she's to blame.

Himbo doesn't actually cover it, though, because of Cain's aggressiveness and the fact that he seemed to use a woman's distress as a lever over her.

Not sure I have a word.

Scumbag works for me.

101 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:54:18am

re: #99 Killgore Trout

That's very... British.

102 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:54:32am

re: #94 EmmmieG

He's basically a womanizer by his history..

103 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:55:32am

re: #101 windsagio

That's very... British.

*snooty british voice*

"And here we have...a wall sized print of His Majesty M. Bison, despot of Shadoloo"

104 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:56:43am

re: #94 EmmmieG

I absolutely agree that it is offensive that if a married man has sex with a mistress and somehow she's to blame.

Himbo doesn't actually cover it, though, because of Cain's aggressiveness and the fact that he seemed to use a woman's distress as a lever over her.

Not sure I have a word.

I probably do, but I like to keep up at least some sliver of a facade of being "ladylike".

105 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:57:03am

beatings and lamentations lizards, ltns...

106 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:57:31am

re: #82 Killgore Trout

I'm almost certain it was a rent-a-mob. Probably Basij militia members. My guess is they were trying to create patriotic nostalgia about the revolution and the taking of the American embassy in '78(?). I think they also know that serious sanctions and military strikes are inevitable at this point so diplomatic relations aren't important to maintain.

It could also be a preemptive set-up move for a crackdown in the name of safety for the foreign compounds in case there is a new stirring by university students for change. In other words, trying to prevent a "Persian Spring" from getting off the ground.

107 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:58:21am

re: #103 WindUpBird

*snooty british voice*

"And here we have...a wall sized print of His Majesty M. Bison, despot of Shadoloo"

"And here is the Ambassador's pokemon collectable trading cards, and yes, he has caught them all."

108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:58:31am

re: #96 justaminute

Sanctions with teeth on them and isolating Syria is working. The Government is slinging accusations around left and right. If only we could stop Russia and China from interceding on Iran's behalf we might get somewhere.

I think Iran is probably well beyond sanctions. They've been under economic sanctions for 30 years and have plenty of time to adjust. I think military action is probably coming up soon.
I wonder about these Iranian "accidents". There's been no mention of planted bombs with parts labeled in hebrew, no mention of missile strikes. Makes me wonder if the Israelis have some sort of satellite with lasers or something.

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:58:46am

The term "womanizer" always sounded to me like an evil machine from an 80's slasher flick that grinds up women

110 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:59:12am

re: #109 WindUpBird

'nazi rape machine'

You know you were thinking it too.

111 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:59:22am

re: #97 WindUpBird

HIMBO!

awesome

re: #32 makeitstop

112 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:59:31am

re: #103 WindUpBird

*snooty british voice*

"And here we have...a wall sized print of His Majesty M. Bison, despot of Shadoloo"

I have to upding a reference to everyone's favourite purple flame engulfed dictator.

113 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 11:59:48am

re: #109 WindUpBird

The term "womanizer" always sounded to me like an evil machine from an 80's slasher flick that grinds up women

Er...no...I'm thinking a song from an 80's band with brightly colored clothes and big hair.

The song sucked.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:00:11pm

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"And here is the Ambassador's pokemon collectable trading cards, and yes, he has caught them all."

"The assistant liaison from Turkey has deployed his Glaceon."

115 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:00:36pm

re: #110 windsagio

'nazi rape machine'

You know you were thinking it too.

fucking japan, hahahaha

WHAT IS WRONG WITH JAPAN

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:00:51pm

re: #110 windsagio

'nazi rape machine'

You know you were thinking it too.

weren't we in high school when that came out? :D

117 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:01:20pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

The term "womanizer" always sounded to me like an evil machine from an 80's slasher flick that grinds up women

Hi there! Billy Maze here to show you the latest, the greatest product to hit the market! It's the womanizer 3000! Is your secretary forgetting her place? One whack with the womanizer 3000 and she'll be at your beck and call in no time. Wife won't make you a ham sammich? The womanizer 3000 can handle that too!

//

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:01:36pm

re: #113 EmmmieG

Er...no...I'm thinking a song from an 80's band with brightly colored clothes and big hair.

The song sucked.

Flock Of Seagulls stage presence, but the songs would be more Loverboy, very canadian middling production values

119 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:01:39pm

re: #116 WindUpBird

weren't we in high school when that came out? :D

yes, and a particularly amoral video store owner let us rent it at like... 15.

120 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:02:09pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

"The assistant liaison from Turkey has deployed his Glaceon."

The Iranians have used Student Takeover.
Its super effective.
The UK has used Trade Sanctions.
Its not very effective.

121 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:04:19pm

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

except of course they are :p

Iran is feeling an immense amount of pressure from the various sanctions, that's presumably one of the reasons that they're choosing to turn up the heat in other ways right now.

122 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:06:35pm

re: #121 windsagio

except of course they are :p

Iran is feeling an immense amount of pressure from the various sanctions, that's presumably one of the reasons that they're choosing to turn up the heat in other ways right now.

Its a pokemon gag, just go with it.

123 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:08:15pm

re: #121 windsagio

except of course they are :p

Iran is feeling an immense amount of pressure from the various sanctions, that's presumably one of the reasons that they're choosing to turn up the heat in other ways right now.

There also appears to be a large amount of infighting between the various factions of the government. This may just be another example of one group lashing out in a show of force.

124 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:08:21pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I...

To my shame I do not know pokemon stuff very well. So I totally missed the joke :(

(jokes about obscure fighting games, or RTS, or FPS, that I can go with!)

125 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:08:22pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its a pokemon gag, just go with it.

He's just being a stick in the Mudkip.

126 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:08:48pm

re: #125 Simply Sarah

I'm sorry, that HAD to have a downding.

(#*@&(*$#@& mudkips

127 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:09:19pm

re: #126 windsagio

I'm sorry, that HAD to have a downding.

(#*@&(*$#@& mudkips

It's not my fault the name fit so well!

128 justaminute  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:09:33pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I think Iran is probably well beyond sanctions. They've been under economic sanctions for 30 years and have plenty of time to adjust. I think military action is probably coming up soon.
I wonder about these Iranian "accidents". There's been no mention of planted bombs with parts labeled in hebrew, no mention of missile strikes. Makes me wonder if the Israelis have some sort of satellite with lasers or something.

Those sanctions didn't really do anything. When you are in Iran tons of Western products are available. Frankly products from Germany, France and Great Britain line the shelves. The economic situation in Europe makes me wonder if a lot of back door goods will still be available. Banking is a good way to stifle Iran. But when there is a will there is a way. Like drugs. No matter how long we have been in Afghanistan the poppy crop is thriving.

129 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:10:57pm

re: #124 windsagio

I...

To my shame I do not know pokemon stuff very well. So I totally missed the joke :(

(jokes about obscure fighting games, or RTS, or FPS, that I can go with!)

Street Fighter is obscure? Or are you waiting for World Heroes jokes?

130 Tumulus11  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:12:19pm
'Cain told his staff on yesterday’s call, according to the transcript. 'If a decision is made different than to plow ahead, you all will be the first to know.'
// Washington Post.

. Thirteen years too late.

131 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:12:52pm

re: #129 Simply Sarah

It always bothered me that world heroes characters weren't allowed in King of Fighters. Creepy rapey russian Jesus should TOTALLY have been there!

Youtube Video
132 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:14:45pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

The Brits have kicked out the Iranians...

UPDATE 7-UK expels Iran diplomats after embassy attack

TEHRAN, Nov 30 (Reuters) - Britain shut Iran's embassy in London and expelled all its staff on Wednesday, saying the storming of the British mission in Tehran could not have taken place without consent from Iranian authorities.

Foreign Secretary William Hague also said the British Embassy in Tehran had been closed and all staff evacuated following the attack on Tuesday by a crowd that ransacked offices and burned British flags in a protest over sanctions imposed by Britain on Tehran.

Iran warned that Britain's closure of the Iranian embassy in London would lead to further retaliation.

It seems like it's heating up out there.

133 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:16:01pm

re: #15 Petero1818

My bad you beat me to the point by a mile.

134 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:16:36pm

Swiss police: Iran embassy attacked

BERN, Switzerland (AP) — Police in the Swiss capital Bern have arrested two young men for throwing incendiary devices and stones at Iran's embassy.

A police statement says the attack happened shortly after 3 p.m. (1400 GMT) Wednesday and the embassy suffered no damage.

The unidentified men were detained by security guards and police and their motives are being investigated.

135 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:16:38pm

re: #132 NJDhockeyfan

The Brits have kicked out the Iranians...

UPDATE 7-UK expels Iran diplomats after embassy attack


It seems like it's heating up out there.

Nothing like stirring up the foreign and anti-imperialist rhetoric in an attempt to distract the populace from domestic issues.

136 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:16:58pm

re: #131 windsagio

It always bothered me that world heroes characters weren't allowed in King of Fighters. Creepy rapey russian Jesus should TOTALLY have been there!

[Video]

SNK has never really seemed interested in using characters from their others fighters in KoF, unless they're from the Fatal Fury/Garou/AoF universe. There are a few Samurai Shodown exceptions, but that's about it. Why? I dunno.

137 wilburs  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:17:12pm

re: #64 zora

Newt Gingrich On Fox News: I Have To 'Know What I'm Talking About' Now That I'm Not On Network (VIDEO)

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Did he follow this up with an "oops"?

138 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:17:27pm

re: #132 NJDhockeyfan

The Brits have kicked out the Iranians...

UPDATE 7-UK expels Iran diplomats after embassy attack

It seems like it's heating up out there.

It's really starting to look like the wheels are in motion for something pretty big.I think some sort of point of no return has already been crossed.

139 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:18:54pm

If there was one thing I agreed on with Egypt's previous rulers, it's the ban on MB. And don't start going about democracy and such. European democratic states also ban certain parties from time to time. Doesn't mean they're less democratic because of that, AFAIC.

140 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:19:19pm

re: #136 Simply Sarah

I think you actually hit it on the head, those games you listed are probably actually in a shared universe, whereas the others aren't. Its like final fight and Streetfighter actually being in the same world.

(By the way its utterly awesome to have somebody else who knows this crap around :D)

141 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:19:21pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

It's really starting to look like the wheels are in motion for something pretty big.I think some sort of point of no return has already been crossed.

I thought the Israelis should have pounded them 2 years ago....same issues, nothing's changed except the level of Iranian belligerence

142 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:19:39pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

It's really starting to look like the wheels are in motion for something pretty big.I think some sort of point of no return has already been crossed.

It could be the Europeans are getting their people out of the way for a possible attack.

143 garhighway  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:19:49pm

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Muslim Brotherhood says wants to form gov't

Self determination is a bitch.

144 justaminute  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:20:26pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I think Iran is probably well beyond sanctions. They've been under economic sanctions for 30 years and have plenty of time to adjust. I think military action is probably coming up soon.
I wonder about these Iranian "accidents". There's been no mention of planted bombs with parts labeled in hebrew, no mention of missile strikes. Makes me wonder if the Israelis have some sort of satellite with lasers or something.

Military action like bombing? Bombing like in nuclear? The anti-government people of Iran have already resigned themselves to some kind of bombing but if it goes nuclear, well whoever drops that kind of bomb is wrong. Pre-emptive nuclear bombing of Iran sets a precedent and where does it stop?

145 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:21:31pm

re: #141 albusteve

I thought the Israelis should have pounded them 2 years ago...same issues, nothing's changed except the level of Iranian belligerence

terrible idea, and exactly what Iran's leadership wants. That's why they're turning up the belligerence. An attack by Israel or the West is probably the only thing that can save that government over the next few years.

146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:22:46pm

re: #10 recusancy

The supposedly moderate Huntsman calls the woman accusing Cain of sexual assault bimbos.
[Link: thehill.com...]

And that is the best the GOP has to offer.

Dumb bigots.

147 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:23:44pm

re: #145 windsagio

terrible idea, and exactly what Iran's leadership wants. That's why they're turning up the belligerence. An attack by Israel or the West is probably the only thing that can save that government over the next few years.

This is one of those brain-bending contradictions of dealing with that part of the world: the more pressure we make towards regime change from the outside, the less the chance of regime change from within.

148 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:23:59pm

To put it another way, Israel certainly has the means to annihilate or at least keep on indefinite hold any Iranian nuclear program.

They know that any indiscriminate or even overt attack will make their situation immesurably worse, so they're smartly playing coy/careful.

149 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:24:26pm

re: #144 justaminute

Even if we bomb Iran conventionally, they'll still get the bomb.
Many of their sites are hardened within mountains for just such a strike.
We can only delay.

150 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:25:06pm

re: #95 Rightwingconspirator


"" KRAUTHAMMER: But does race have any part of that? Establishment, maverick, yes. What about race?

Well, Mr. K, if you have to ask...

151 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:26:13pm

re: #149 Varek Raith

Even if we bomb Iran conventionally, they'll still get the bomb.
Many of their sites are hardened within mountains for just such a strike.
We can only delay.

Bunker busters can get down there can't they?

152 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:26:47pm

re: #149 Varek Raith

Even if we bomb Iran conventionally, they'll still get the bomb.
Many of their sites are hardened within mountains for just such a strike.
We can only delay.

Not to mention I doubt the locals would take to kind to our bombs throwing hundreds or thousands of tons of uranium into the air, soil, and water. Call me crazy, but I think folks take exception to their drinking water being radioactive enough to poach an egg without turning on the stove.

153 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:27:01pm

re: #151 NJDhockeyfan

makes me think of the story where the US just decomissioned their last small nukes (well officially) because bunker busters were just better at the job.

154 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:27:13pm

re: #151 NJDhockeyfan

Bunker busters can get down there can't they?

Nope, there are mountains involved.

155 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:27:13pm

re: #151 NJDhockeyfan

Bunker busters can get down there can't they?

Nope.
If they could don't you think we or Israel would've already done so?
It's also the reason the Bush admin was looking into nuclear bunker busters.

156 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:27:43pm

re: #140 windsagio

I think you actually hit it on the head, those games you listed are probably actually in a shared universe, whereas the others aren't. Its like final fight and Streetfighter actually being in the same world.

(By the way its utterly awesome to have somebody else who knows this crap around :D)

Well, I think part of it was also that forming three person teams around Fatal Fury and AoF were pretty easy and obvious (Although that doesn't explain Kim *surname no longer available* and friends) compared to, say, World Heroes. Fatal Fury was also their signature fighting series for a while.

I've dabbled in fighters since I was pretty young (Which matched nicely with them becoming big in the arcade and mainstream), started getting a bit more into them in my late teens, and actually got fairly big into them (Mostly casual, though) in recent years.

157 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:27:56pm

re: #155 Varek Raith

you don't have to actually destroy the facilities to kill the program though.

Its just that the scenario then is pretty damn horrendous.

158 dragonfire1981  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:28:22pm

"I'm Rick Perry and I think I approve this message."

Or

"I'm Rick Perry and I approve this message...for now."

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:28:32pm

re: #131 windsagio

It always bothered me that world heroes characters weren't allowed in King of Fighters. Creepy rapey russian Jesus should TOTALLY have been there!

[Video]

WHAT
IS
THAT
???

160 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:29:15pm

re: #157 windsagio

you don't have to actually destroy the facilities to kill the program though.

Its just that the scenario then is pretty damn horrendous.

That's just it, there's no "killing the program" without killing a whole lot of people and reducing a lot of real estate to slag. Bombing even 3/4 of the facilities would still leave the equipment and knowledge to start things back up, whether it be in a matter of months or years.

161 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:29:30pm

re: #158 dragonfire1981

"I'm Rick Perry and I think I approve this message."

Or

"I'm Rick Perry and I approve this message...for now."

Or

'I'm Rick Perry, I'd approve this message if I could remember what it was.'

162 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:29:34pm

re: #156 Simply Sarah

hah similiar to me :D

I'd basically quit after the arcades died (nothing like going to an arcade and finding nobody there and nobody on the machines), and then got back into it when SF2:HDR and SF4 came out (since they have at least workable netcode, I can't hit links anyways so the input delay doesn't matter :D)

163 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:29:59pm

I think what we need to be doing in iran if we're not already is covertly helping opposition to the regime. And I agree bombing them and possibly having the uranium go into the air, soil, and water would be a PR nightmare to say the least.

164 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:13pm

re: #159 Sergey Romanov

WHAT
IS
THAT
???

its rasputin the mad priest slaying his enemies with love, of course!

165 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:23pm

re: #158 dragonfire1981

"I'm Rick Perry and I think I approve this message."

Or

"I'm Rick Perry and I approve this message...for now."

"I'm Rick Perry and maple syrup is awesome."

166 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:30:47pm

re: #142 NJDhockeyfan

It could be the Europeans are getting their people out of the way for a possible attack.

No way. There is no government that is prepared to attack Iran right now, including the Israelis. There is a lot of hyperbole, but at the end of the day, nobody, not Israel, not the US, not GB, or the entire EU can afford a conflict like this at this time. Let alone the fact that China and Russia are not even onside with real sanctions that have teeth. The truth is Iran will have nukes. The only real hope is that by the time it does, there is a popular revolt, and the Iranian moderates will swing a deal to dismantle the operation for some quid pro quo.

167 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:31:02pm

re: #164 windsagio

its rasputin the mad priest slaying his enemies with love, of course!

IT'S THE BEST GAME EVER

168 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:31:08pm

re: #145 windsagio

terrible idea, and exactly what Iran's leadership wants. That's why they're turning up the belligerence. An attack by Israel or the West is probably the only thing that can save that government over the next few years.

all my ideas are terrible

169 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:31:21pm

re: #163 HappyWarrior

The problem is that the US especially needs to deal with Iran with a very light hand (Britian too really). The Iranians still remember Mossadeq and the Shah very very well.

170 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:32:00pm

re: #168 albusteve

all my ideas are terrible

now now, don't sell yourself short. You have good ideas about cars :D

171 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:32:21pm

re: #147 ralphieboy

This is one of those brain-bending contradictions of dealing with that part of the world: the more pressure we make towards regime change from the outside, the less the chance of regime change from within.

Not that brain-bending when you view it as a family- or tribe- based behavior writ large. The arguments and disagreements are made and settled *within* the family. Any outsider attempting to interfere will be met by the entire group banding together to repel that interference. After which they will go back to their internal argument.

This, to a degree, is what the West stepped into by getting involved in Afghanistan (and which the UK and Russia before them did as well.)

And essentially how I expect the US would react if someone invaded us. And why we continue to not expect a similar reaction in other countries with any sort of national identity? I have no idea.

And the governing bodies have an understanding of the concept. Thus the anti-invader rhetoric and such. (Plus the historic note of how Stalin turned the German invasion in 1941 into The Great Patriotic War to defend Mother Russia.)

172 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:32:30pm

re: #169 windsagio

The problem is that the US especially needs to deal with Iran with a very light hand (Britian too really). The Iranians still remember Mossadeq and the Shah very very well.

Whereas Americans and most British haven't the foggiest notion of who he was - or why they hate us. They must just hate our freedoms, right?

173 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:32:59pm

re: #162 windsagio

hah similiar to me :D

I'd basically quit after the arcades died (nothing like going to an arcade and finding nobody there and nobody on the machines), and then got back into it when SF2:HDR and SF4 came out (since they have at least workable netcode, I can't hit links anyways so the input delay doesn't matter :D)

Well, you could have always moved to Japan. Arcades aren't mythical over there!

And yeah, links are not my friend. There's a reason I think I gravitated towards a fairly safe, grinding, non-combo heavy Bison in SF4.

174 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:33:21pm

re: #160 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That's just it, there's no "killing the program" without killing a whole lot of people and reducing a lot of real estate to slag. Bombing even 3/4 of the facilities would still leave the equipment and knowledge to start things back up, whether it be in a matter of months or years.

Pretty much.
Unless you want to let loose the B-61 M11s.

175 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:33:41pm

re: #154 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope, there are mountains involved.

And perhaps equally important, it is not clear that anyone knows where all of the facilities are. It is widely assumed that there are facilities we do not know about.

176 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:33:51pm

re: #172 ralphieboy

Whereas Americans and most British haven't the foggiest notion of who he was - or why they hate us. They must just hate our freedoms, right?

It's actually quite maddening. Most people have absolutely no idea.

177 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:34:06pm

re: #144 justaminute

Military action like bombing? Bombing like in nuclear? The anti-government people of Iran have already resigned themselves to some kind of bombing but if it goes nuclear, well whoever drops that kind of bomb is wrong. Pre-emptive nuclear bombing of Iran sets a precedent and where does it stop?

No, nuking Iran would be stupid. Iran doesn't have a bomb yet. I'm thinking that the "accident" rate at Iranian facilities could continue to increase. I think the "accident" thing is pretty obvious so they might eventually just drop the ruse and use missile strikes or drones.

178 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:34:46pm

re: #173 Simply Sarah

In SF4, I play blanka, because he has almost no combos to speak of anyways.

I like to think of myself as a 'tactical' rather than an 'execution based' player (aka my execution sucks)

179 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:35:25pm

re: #177 Killgore Trout

No, nuking Iran would be stupid. Iran doesn't have a bomb yet. I'm thinking that the "accident" rate at Iranian facilities could continue to increase. I think the "accident" thing is pretty obvious so they might eventually just drop the ruse and use missile strikes or drones.

Just as long as we're prepared for Gulf War 3.

180 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:35:35pm

re: #177 Killgore Trout

the ruse is pretty important though, even if a bit transparent.

What I expect to see a lot more of is viruses.

181 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:36:06pm

re: #170 windsagio

now now, don't sell yourself short. You have good ideas about cars :D

this issue was discussed at length years ago...nothing new here...you don't try to take out the nukes, you ruin the infrastructure, the ability to move around, power, launch sites...all that...piece of cake and the Israelis can do it alone if need be...the idea is not to preserve 'govt, it's to preserve Israel

182 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:36:15pm

re: #179 Varek Raith

Just as long as we're prepared for Gulf War 3.

Remember how badly it seemed Bush 'n co wanted to invade Iran?

(because Iraq went so damn well you see)

Edit: and of course the classic, 'bomb bomb bomb- bomb bomb iran!'

183 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:36:42pm

re: #179 Varek Raith

Just as long as we're prepared for Gulf War 3.

Because, and let's not kid ourselves, that's exactly what will ensue once we bomb their facilities.

184 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:37:31pm

re: #179 Varek Raith

Just as long as we're prepared for Gulf War 3.

I don't think that will be necessary. Their military can be destroyed within a week or two from the air. I don't think there's a chance in hell of ground invasion or occupation of Iran.

185 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:37:45pm

re: #183 Varek Raith

Because, and let's not kid ourselves, that's exactly what will ensue once we bomb their facilities.

between who?

186 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:37:49pm

re: #172 ralphieboy

Whereas Americans and most British haven't the foggiest notion of who he was - or why they hate us. They must just hate our freedoms, right?

I presume Iranian primary education covers those events very heavily. Much as Vietnam makes very sure that their citizens know about how they kicked the ass of the US and their Vietnamese puppet government in the early 70s.

About which I don't think the Vietnamese hate us. They think we idlely allowed our government to play the bully due to being mislead and misinformed by our leaders. I expect it to be at least somewhat the same with the Iranians.

187 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:38:22pm

re: #182 windsagio

Remember how badly it seemed Bush 'n co wanted to invade Iran?

(because Iraq went so damn well you see)

no....have some links?

188 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:38:35pm

re: #169 windsagio

The problem is that the US especially needs to deal with Iran with a very light hand (Britian too really). The Iranians still remember Mossadeq and the Shah very very well.

Yep, very true.

189 Simply Sarah  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:38:56pm

re: #178 windsagio

In SF4, I play blanka, because he has almost no combos to speak of anyways.

I like to think of myself as a 'tactical' rather than an 'execution based' player (aka my execution sucks)

Yeah, that's largely me. I like to keep it simple and hopefully succeed in at least doing what I want to do. I can be OK at reacting, but getting tight link timing down? Uh...how about we play Guilty Gear instead? I like chains. I can do chains.

190 justaminute  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:39:24pm

re: #149 Varek Raith

Even if we bomb Iran conventionally, they'll still get the bomb.
Many of their sites are hardened within mountains for just such a strike.
We can only delay.

Most Iranian civilians expect the worst. They can't control their government. Khameni and the Majilis are getting ready to get rid of the presidency. That's why I laugh at people that think it is religion that control's Iran anymore. It's all about money and control. The Revolutionary Guard is getting so powerful and Khameni has hooked up with them. It's leaving a lot of mullahs in Qom stewing and if they rise up they face house arrest. The dynamic in Iran is really changing.

191 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:39:59pm

re: #183 Varek Raith

Because, and let's not kid ourselves, that's exactly what will ensue once we bomb their facilities.

Actually what you need to be prepared for is a conflict far more serious than the Gulf Wars. You have American military interests in Iraq and Afghanistan well within reach. You have Israel in reach. You have Iran's proxies hezbullah and Hamas, as well as Syria ready to join in. What you would have is a multi front conflict that most of the Arab states would not be able to avoid being drawn into. You are really looking at the possibility of a regional conflict the likes of which we have not seen for some time.

192 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:41:16pm

re: #191 Petero1818

interestingly, Syria's current problems are also putting a ton of pressure on Iran.

193 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:41:20pm

re: #185 albusteve

between who?

Iran won't just stand idly by while we bomb them.
I'd expect an Iranian invasion of Iraq and/or Afghanistan to strike at us.
And to the thinking we could just bomb their military from the air:
That takes a build up of large amounts of aircraft and munitions. This will be obvious to Iran. They may preemptively strike.
Fun.

194 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:41:43pm

re: #182 windsagio

Remember how badly it seemed Bush 'n co wanted to invade Iran?

(because Iraq went so damn well you see)

Edit: and of course the classic, 'bomb bomb bomb- bomb bomb iran!'

I think a lot of people don't know that Iran is quite large(2.5 times the population and 4.5 times the landmass). I don't blame people for not wanting a nuclear Iran. I don't either but it needs to be done smartly and aware of the risks. We thought very short term when we overthrew Mossadaq's government and reinstated the Shah.

195 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:42:29pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

Iran won't just stand idly by while we bomb them.
I'd expect an Iranian invasion of Iraq and/or Afghanistan to strike at us.
And to the thinking we could just bomb their military from the air:
That takes a build up of large amounts of aircraft and munitions. This will be obvious to Iran. They may preemptively strike.
Fun.

Believe the Chinese are involved with Iran too.

196 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:45:12pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

Iran won't just stand idly by while we bomb them.
I'd expect an Iranian invasion of Iraq and/or Afghanistan to strike at us.
And to the thinking we could just bomb their military from the air:
That takes a build up of large amounts of aircraft and munitions. This will be obvious to Iran. They may preemptively strike.
Fun.

that won't happen

197 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:45:25pm

re: #192 windsagio

interestingly, Syria's current problems are also putting a ton of pressure on Iran.

Agreed, it is not entirely clear what disposition a new Syrian regime would have to Iran. That has to be a great concern to the Ayatollah.

198 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:45:46pm

re: #176 windsagio

It's actually quite maddening. Most people have absolutely no idea.

Set the Wayback Machine and let Mr. Peabody explain:

Youtube Video
199 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:46:23pm

re: #196 albusteve

that won't happen

I admire your optimism.

200 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:46:33pm

re: #197 Petero1818

Agreed, it is not entirely clear what disposition a new Syrian regime would have to Iran. That has to be a great concern to the Ayatollah.

That's true. Isn't Syria majority Sunni but Assad Shi'a?

201 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:47:55pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

I admire your optimism.

you under estimate Iran's enemies....park a few carriers off their coast and they're done for

203 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:49:18pm

re: #201 albusteve

you under estimate Iran's enemies...park a few carriers off their coast and they're done for

How far you think you can back Iran into a corner before they decide that lashing out is the only option?

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:50:31pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

Netherlands recalls its ambassador in Tehran

This is starting to feel like something.

205 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:52:00pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

That's true. Isn't Syria majority Sunni but Assad Shi'a?

Yes that is my understanding. Syria however will have a difficult time governing in a post Assad regime. My guess is tribalism will make it really difficult. I think actually the fragmentation that results from tribalism will make it easy for Iran to continue to destabilize Syria, even though they are Sunni. It is a pretty complicated dynamic. The reality is instability is a bad thing for security overall.

206 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:52:17pm

re: #203 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How far you think you can back Iran into a corner before they decide that lashing out is the only option?

let them lash...they could probably resist a bit, but not for long...we can easily defend the Gulf and take down their air power...how would they lash? toward whom?....they are third rate by most measure, and you could expect a lot of quitters too

207 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:54:15pm

re: #206 albusteve

let them lash...they could probably resist a bit, but not for long...we can easily defend the Gulf and take down their air power...how would they lash? toward whom?...they are third rate by most measure, and you could expect a lot of quitters too

That line of thinking is what got us into trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan.

208 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:54:48pm

re: #205 Petero1818

Yes that is my understanding. Syria however will have a difficult time governing in a post Assad regime. My guess is tribalism will make it really difficult. I think actually the fragmentation that results from tribalism will make it easy for Iran to continue to destabilize Syria, even though they are Sunni. It is a pretty complicated dynamic. The reality is instability is a bad thing for security overall.

Yeah. Syria from what I understand is one of those ME nations that has a lot of different groups vying for power. Agree with you about instability. too.

209 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:56:02pm

re: #207 Varek Raith

That line of thinking is what got us into trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan.

someone asked...that's how you'd do it...as for the other countries I have no idea what you mean...those were full blown ground/armor assaults

210 justaminute  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:56:18pm

re: #201 albusteve

you under estimate Iran's enemies...park a few carriers off their coast and they're done for

No Steve it's just the beginning. I have heard that they have already war gamed this. Can you tell the difference between an Iranian, and a Iraqi and a Syrian and any of the Arab countries? Most of our soldiers can't. Or Farsi from Arabic? Or what ME people are really thinking? Heck, we don't even know what the Saudi's would really do frankly.

211 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:57:24pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Their military can be destroyed within a week or two from the air.

Forgive me for being wary of statements like that after hearing how our involvement in Iraq would be 'a matter of months.'

212 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:57:34pm

re: #206 albusteve

let them lash...they could probably resist a bit, but not for long...we can easily defend the Gulf and take down their air power...how would they lash? toward whom?...they are third rate by most measure, and you could expect a lot of quitters too

And then what? Seriously, after you've smashed their military, what then?

213 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:58:22pm

re: #209 albusteve

someone asked...that's how you'd do it...as for the other countries I have no idea what you mean...those were full blown ground/armor assaults

Sorry, man, but a strike on Iran will lead to ground offenses. We can't just do this in the air.
Why? Despite what you may think, Iran will attack us in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think you underestimate their capabilities.

214 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:58:49pm

re: #212 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And then what? Seriously, after you've smashed their military, what then?

Exactly, how do the Iranian people take this? And what of the new government?

215 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:59:14pm

re: #213 Varek Raith

or he's just being contrary :p

216 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 12:59:36pm

re: #212 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And then what? Seriously, after you've smashed their military, what then?

beats me...those political types can figure that out....militarily, Iran is not much threat, if we decide otherwise

217 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:00:11pm

re: #215 windsagio

or he's just being contrary :p

Perhaps.
I do like discussing things with him though.
Despite the crap he gets, he does make you think.
;)

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:01:36pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

That's true. Isn't Syria majority Sunni but Assad Shi'a?

The Sunnis are the biggest Muslim group, and Muslims are almost ninety percent of the country.

Assad's an Alawi, IIRC.

219 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:01:44pm

re: #213 Varek Raith

Sorry, man, but a strike on Iran will lead to ground offenses. We can't just do this in the air.
Why? Despite what you may think, Iran will attack us in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think you underestimate their capabilities.

take away their fuel, roads and air cover....they aren't going anywhere

220 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:02:19pm

re: #217 Varek Raith

Perhaps.
I do like discussing things with him though.
Despite the crap he gets, he does make you think.
;)

that person is my pet poodle...be nice to it

221 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:03:03pm

re: #219 albusteve

take away their fuel, roads and air cover...they aren't going anywhere

We'll see, I suppose.
Keyboard generals is all we is.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:03:11pm

re: #208 HappyWarrior

Yeah. Syria from what I understand is one of those ME nations that has a lot of different groups vying for power. Agree with you about instability. too.

Lebanon keeps their blend under control with an almost comical system of checks and balances where the Christians get a cookie...and the Shia get a cookie...and the Druze get a cookie...

It seems nuts to an outsider, but it seems to keep them on an even keel these days.

223 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:03:25pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

The Sunnis are the biggest Muslim group, and Muslims are almost ninety percent of the country.

Assad's an Alawi, IIRC.

Yeah I just checked. Knew Assad was a minority within his own nation when it came to religion.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:03:46pm

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

The Sunnis are the biggest Muslim group, and Muslims are almost ninety percent of the country.

Assad's an Alawi, IIRC.

And they're Shia, so yes. Sorry. Brain is working slowly this afternoon.

225 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:03:47pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

Lebanon keeps their blend under control with an almost comical system of checks and balances where the Christians get a cookie...and the Shia get a cookie...and the Druze get a cookie...

It seems nuts to an outsider, but it seems to keep them on an even keel these days.

And why does Varek not get a cookie?!?!

226 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:04:12pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

Lebanon keeps their blend under control with an almost comical system of checks and balances where the Christians get a cookie...and the Shia get a cookie...and the Druze get a cookie...

It seems nuts to an outsider, but it seems to keep them on an even keel these days.

Yeah, I've heard of their system of maintaining balance. Quite unique.

227 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:04:57pm

re: #216 albusteve

beats me...those political types can figure that out...militarily, Iran is not much threat, if we decide otherwise

I very much doubt those political types think a war with Iran would be anything other than a disaster. Wars have consequences beyond someone's ass getting kicked. For one thing, beating the shit out of the Iranian military is certainly not going to endear us to the locals. If anything, it will do the exact opposite, inciting support for the regime and support for nuclear weapons.

228 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:05:29pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

And why does Varek not get a cookie?!?!

You're not Lebanese? On a funny note, I had a part Lebanese classmate growing up and the kid would always talk about Lebanon. I didn't know what a Lebanon was in those third grade days. I think I thought it was a sweet. I always liked their flag this said.

229 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:06:38pm

re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I very much doubt those political types think a war with Iran would be anything other than a disaster. Wars have consequences beyond someone's ass getting kicked. For one thing, beating the shit out of the Iranian military is certainly not going to endear us to the locals. If anything, it will do the exact opposite, inciting support for the regime and support for nuclear weapons.

could be...not my area of genius

230 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:08:15pm

re: #229 albusteve

could be...not my area of genius

Not really mine either. All I can do is read the opinions of those who are and get a general idea.

231 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:09:22pm

re: #230 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Not really mine either. All I can do is read the opinions of those who are and get a general idea.

This would all be so much easier if a giant asteroid hit the earth.
All problems solved!
/I deserve a Nobel.

232 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:11:25pm

re: #210 justaminute

No Steve it's just the beginning. I have heard that they have already war gamed this. Can you tell the difference between an Iranian, and a Iraqi and a Syrian and any of the Arab countries? Most of our soldiers can't. Or Farsi from Arabic? Or what ME people are really thinking? Heck, we don't even know what the Saudi's would really do frankly.

Actually the Saudis are the ones whose behaviour is predictable. They are only too happy to see the Iranian regime fall.

233 justaminute  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:12:06pm

re: #219 albusteve

take away their fuel, roads and air cover...they aren't going anywhere

Didn't they say that about Viet Nam too? Roads in Iran? Ha ha. They are so used to doing without. They just built their Superhighways in the past 5 or so years. When my husband was in the Iranian military they had to ride mules up into the mountains for guard duty. He said that it got so cold at night on duty that they grew beards but they would freeze on your face. They can do without. Remember they sent teenagers to walk in mine fields in the war with Iraq to clear them? They know that the US can kick their butt conventionally but a war with them will not be conventional.

234 windsagio  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:13:10pm

re: #233 justaminute

I think somebody thinks its still the 1870s and you can get people you invade to give up just by beating their army.

Edit: To the Iranians a US invasion would be like the US being invaded by the USSR but a thousand times worse.

235 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:22:14pm

re: #234 windsagio

I think somebody thinks its still the 1870s and you can get people you invade to give up just by beating their army.

Edit: To the Iranians a US invasion would be like the US being invaded by the USSR but a thousand times worse.

the question regarded Iran as a nuclear threat and the possibilities of ending that....the rest is somebody else's discussion

236 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:26:57pm

re: #234 windsagio

I think somebody thinks its still the 1870s and you can get people you invade to give up just by beating their army.

Edit: To the Iranians a US invasion would be like the US being invaded by the USSR but a thousand times worse.

انواع پستانداران گوشتخوار دله!

237 wilburs  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:29:42pm

re: #234 windsagio

I think somebody thinks its still the 1870s and you can get people you invade to give up just by beating their army.

Edit: To the Iranians a US invasion would be like the US being invaded by the USSR but a thousand times worse.

Except for the part where they give us flowers and candy

238 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:30:16pm

In case the Iranian discussion is still ongoing there might be another clue here...
Duqu hackers scrub evidence from command servers, shut down spying op

The hackers behind the Duqu botnet have shut down their snooping operation, a security researcher said today.

The 12 known command-and-control (C&C) servers for Duqu were scrubbed of all files on Oct. 20, 2011, according to Moscow-based Kaspersky Lab.
....
Duqu was designed, said Symantec and Kaspersky, by advanced hackers, most likely backed by an unknown country's government. Unlike Stuxnet, it was not crafted to wreak havoc on uranium enrichment centrifuges, but to scout out vulnerable installations and computer networks as a lead-in to the development of another worm targeting industrial control systems.
....
Duqu has been traced to attacks in several countries other than Iran, including the Sudan, and may have been under construction since August 2007.

Looks like maybe they've collected all the info they needed and closed up the operation.

239 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:31:46pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

it evolved into a criticizm of invasion....monkeys out the butt

240 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:33:26pm

re: #239 albusteve

it evolved into a criticizm of invasion...monkeys out the butt

Damn hippies.

241 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:35:35pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

Damn hippies.

can't even do a good invasion anymore

242 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:43:57pm

re: #47 marjoriemoon

I don't think you can really call what Mubarak was "conservatism". Dictatorships are not conservative.

wtf? Yes, they are (or can be). Stalin was a conservative.

At least I don't see it that way. Even "liberal" Islamic rule, like in Dubai,

wtf?

243 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:46:35pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

It's an almost impossible situation. The military can't hand the country over to to the MB even if they did win elections. The military is going to be the first to pay the price for shipping weapons into Gaza and otherwise messing with Israel. Continued civil unrest must be really killing the Egyptian economy which relies on tourism. Things are really heating up with Iran, it's bad timing.

MB are no salafists. I doubt they would be much worse for Israel than Turkey's AKP. The country is in no mood to go to war, either. Too much internal strife.

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 1:58:40pm

re: #242 000G

wtf? Yes, they are (or can be). Stalin was a conservative.

wtf?

You just blew Steyn's mind.

245 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 2:02:05pm

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

And they're Shia, so yes. Sorry. Brain is working slowly this afternoon.

Sunnis say Alawis are not Muslims. And I think Twelvers call Alawis ghulat. So even among Shia, Alawis are a minority.

246 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 2:03:51pm

re: #245 000G

Sunnis say Alawis are not Muslims. And I think Twelvers call Alawis ghulat.

sounds like robust fantasy....I love the pronouns

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 2:12:25pm

re: #245 000G

Sunnis say Alawis are not Muslims. And I think Twelvers call Alawis ghulat. So even among Shia, Alawis are a minority.

They're decidedly not mainstream, and are considered pretty fringe by everyone else, but Shia does tend to produce these sorts of offbeat, mystically inclined groups.


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