Santorum Calls For Public Schools To Teach Creationism

The Republican Party’s endless war on reality
Wingnuts • Views: 26,689

Here we go again with the right wing’s bizarre obsession with evolution. For more than a century religious conservatives have been waging a war of denial against reality itself, and there’s no sign of a cease fire yet.

Rick Santorum has long been known as one of the GOP’s most overt and unabashed creationists, and here he is speaking to the editorial board of the Nashua Telegraph, urging that Christian creationism be taught in public school science classes as an “alternative” to the scientific facts of evolution.

Argh. This is the anti-science face of the Republican Party, and Santorum is not the only presidential candidate with these Dark Ages views. In fact, the majority of the current candidates are creationists — and according to recent Gallup polls, the majority of Republican voters. They keep trying to force their ignorant beliefs into American schools despite the numerous Supreme Court rulings against them, and this election season they’re more determined than ever.

Youtube Video

Santorum: There are many on the left and in the scientific community, so to speak, who are afraid of that discussion because oh my goodness you might mention the word, God-forbid, “God” in the classroom, or “Creator,” or that there may be some things that are inexplainable by nature where there may be, where it’s better explained by a Creator, of course we can’t have that discussion. It’s very interesting that you have a situation that science will only allow things in the classroom that are consistent with a non-Creator idea of how we got here, as if somehow or another that’s scientific. Well maybe the science points to the fact that maybe science doesn’t explain all these things. And if it does point to that, why don’t you pursue that? But you can’t because it’s not science, but if science is pointing you there how can you say it’s not science? It’s worth the debate.

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295 comments
1 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:25:02pm

antiAmerican bigot godnut...individually they are shit gushers...collectively they are a grave danger

2 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:27:06pm

Creationism is not science man on dog man.

3 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:29:27pm
It’s very interesting that you have a situation that science will only allow things in the classroom that are consistent with a non-Creator idea of how we got here, as if somehow or another that’s scientific.

He's a fucking dolt. I tried responding to the above paragraph three different ways, and that's all I got.

He's a dolt.

4 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:29:43pm

as if tax free churches are not enough, these freaks have to invade the schools and bedrooms...where is your science Rick? where is your cred?...this insidious indoctrination needs to be stopped

5 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:32:06pm

Creator
nonCreator....
makes me puke
they are rapidly moving up my I Hate Them scale....these asshole are almost as bad as eagles fans

6 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:32:36pm

Who needs scientific explanations when you can just claim it was magic?

7 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:33:57pm

So, what other "alternatives" will schools bring back?

- Teaching of the four bodily humours, blood letting, and trepanning?

- The Ptolemic model of the universe?

- The four classical elements of wind, fire, water, and earth?

- The Hollow Earth theory?

Yegods.

8 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:34:00pm
Santorum earned a B.A. in political science from The Pennsylvania State University in 1980 and a Masters of Business Administration from the University of Pittsburgh in 1981; during his time at Penn State, he joined the Tau Epsilon Phi fraternity. Five years later, Santorum received a law degree from the Dickinson School of Law. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Apparently there was no study of science involved.
...
Don't google 'santorum education,' though.

9 Jaerik  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:34:43pm

"...but if science is pointing you there how can you say it’s not science?"

Okay Rick, which scientific evidence is currently pointing to the existence of a God? What would your curriculum entail?

I'm waiting.

10 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:35:21pm
there may be some things that are inexplainable by nature where there may be, where it’s better explained by a Creator

It's the Easy Button.

11 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:35:43pm

re: #7 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, what other "alternatives" will schools bring back?

- Teaching of the four bodily humours, blood letting, and trepanning?

- The Ptolemic model of the universe?

- The four classical elements of wind, fire, water, and earth?

- The Hollow Earth theory?

Yegods.

The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.
Thomas Aquinas

12 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:36:17pm

I'm proof that bigotry breeds bigotry...my tolerance for these nutters is limited

13 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:39:30pm
14 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:40:44pm

re: #8 jaunte

Apparently there was no study of science involved.
...
Don't google 'santorum education,' though.

Gotta thing a BA in political science requires at least some science. I am completing my BA in history and had to take two semesters of laboratory science. But it wouldn't shock me if Rick was one of these guys who just showed up for the test and prayed to the allmighty to pass.

15 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:41:09pm

re: #13 jaunte

Bachmann: Teaching Only Evolution Is ‘Censorship’

[Video]

Some have actually postulated that, if the GOP loses the presidency next year, they'll go even further off the edge. Considering how puritanical the GOP has become, that's some scary shit to contemplate.

16 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:42:01pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They don't have much room left to go right.

17 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:42:10pm

Ky. church bans interracial couples

The church member who crafted the resolution, Melvin Thompson, said he is not racist and called the matter an "internal affair."

"I am not racist. I will tell you that. I am not prejudiced against any race of people, have never in my lifetime spoke evil" about a race, said Thompson, the church's former pastor who stepped down earlier this year. "That's what this is being portrayed as, but it is not."

Church secretary Dean Harville disagrees: He says the resolution came after his daughter visited the church this summer with her boyfriend from Africa.

Stella Harville and Ticha Chikuni — now her fiance — visited the church in June and Chikuni sang a song for the congregation. The two had visited the church before.

Dean Harville, the church's secretary, said he was counting the church offering after a service in early August when he was approached by Thompson, who told him Harville's daughter and her boyfriend were no longer allowed to sing at the church.

"If he's not racist, what is this?" Harville said of Thompson.

18 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:42:10pm

Oh, somebody posted earlier I think, the Der Speigel article of how fucked up the GOP race is. amazing and terribly embarrassing how we are viewed.

This is icing on the cake - "Update on the crazy people we may have to deal with!!!"!! extra extra!!!

19 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:42:16pm

re: #15 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Some have actually postulated that, if the GOP loses the presidency next year, they'll go even further off the edge. Considering how puritanical the GOP has become, that's some scary shit to contemplate.

yup, and it's worth contemplating...
these people freak me out

20 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:42:43pm

Somebody needs to ask Mitt Romney where he stands on teaching creationism these days. I wouldn't be surprised if he's suddenly OK with it.

21 JAFO  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:43:20pm

I have no problem with this as long as they teach ALL creation myths.

22 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:43:30pm

re: #14 HappyWarrior

Gotta thing a BA in political science requires at least some science. I am completing my BA in history and had to take two semesters of laboratory science. But it wouldn't shock me if Rick was one of these guys who just showed up for the test and prayed to the allmighty to pass.

Or he cheated off of his frat bros.

23 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:44:12pm

re: #13 jaunte

Bachmann: Teaching Only Evolution Is ‘Censorship’

[Video]

I wonder what she thinks of things like the Butler Law that put John Scopes on trial. Listen, if you want your kids taught God created the earth in whatever days, fine but it has no place in a taxpayer funded school or a science class. There is nothing scientific at all about Genesis. Darwin's theories are based in science.

24 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:44:16pm

Now, Pi can = 3. Let the students decide.

25 tnguitarist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:44:16pm

That word salad just damaged my brain.

26 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:44:21pm

re: #20 Charles

Somebody needs to ask Mitt Romney where he stands on teaching creationism these days. I wouldn't be surprised if he's suddenly OK with it.

Either that or he'll twist and turn before finally refusing to give a definitive answer.

27 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:45:30pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ky. church bans interracial couples

You know what's the crack up? You bring your daughters to Africa to spread your word, and damn if she isn't going to meet someone there!

LOL

28 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:46:12pm

clearly, atheists need to take over the political dynamic in this country...we will save you

29 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:46:18pm

re: #27 Stanley Sea

You know what's the crack up? You bring your daughters to Africa to spread your word, and damn if she isn't going to meet someone there!

LOL

"Honey, we told you to bring them Christ's love not your love."

30 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:46:56pm

re: #24 jaunte

Now, Pi can = 3. Let the students decide.

Now Johnny. How did that failed equation make you feel?

31 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:47:21pm

re: #21 mracb

I have no problem with this as long as they teach ALL creation myths.

why not just bomb the kids with WB cartoons?

32 sagehen  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:47:34pm

If we must have creationism in schools, I demand that it be the Native American creation myths... all of them. The twins, raven and coyote, Old Woman, etc etc. They have every bit as much proof as frothboy's version, and they're far more entertaining. Plus they're authentically American, which make them automatically exceptional.

33 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:48:28pm

re: #30 HoosierHoops

Now Johnny. How did that failed equation make you feel?

Math homework means your teacher doesn't love Jesus.

34 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:49:24pm

The problem with the Cain train is that there was too much steam on the windows and not enough in the engine..
-Mark from Boston

35 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:50:07pm

Some of the people helping to sabotage science education actually imagine that they're 'strong on defense.'

“Even before the modern information revolution,” Leshner and Omenn wrote, “economists concluded that technological innovations account for up to 85 percent of growth in per capita income in the United States and 50 percent of overall economic growth. While we have grown complacent or distracted, other nations have learned from our success. In 1992, China ranked 17th among nations in its support for science; today it is third. Only 11 percent of all U.S. bachelor’s degrees were in natural science or engineering, compared to the global average of 23 percent and 50 percent in China.

“Protecting our nation’s security includes protecting our economic security. America today remains the world leader in innovation, but our lead is slipping. We must inspire our children and our communities to look towards the future. We must make the investments that will invigorate research, strengthen science education and nurture innovation in all fields.”[Link: www.aaas.org...]

36 tnguitarist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:50:09pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ky. church bans interracial couples

I saw the page on this. Ugh. I just wish they would quit dodging and admit their racism. Better out in the open.

37 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:50:20pm

re: #32 sagehen

If we must have creationism in schools, I demand that it be the Native American creation myths... all of them. The twins, raven and coyote, Old Woman, etc etc. They have every bit as much proof as frothboy's version, and they're far more entertaining. Plus they're authentically American, which make them automatically exceptional.

Yeah, there's an idea. Next time one of these whackos says "Creationism should be taught as an alternative," we should respond by saying "Alright, then we should include every culture's creation myth. Kids should be taught that world being created in six days is just as 'valid' as the Yggdrasil and the Nine Worlds."

38 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:50:28pm

re: #32 sagehen

If we must have creationism in schools, I demand that it be the Native American creation myths... all of them. The twins, raven and coyote, Old Woman, etc etc. They have every bit as much proof as frothboy's version, and they're far more entertaining. Plus they're authentically American, which make them automatically exceptional.

good point but I would hope our NAs would not want to participate in what is fast becoming a national disgrace

39 sagehen  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:51:23pm

re: #24 jaunte

Now, Pi can = 3. Let the students decide.

Don't be silly, it's 3.2.

At least according to the Indiana Pi Bill of 1897.
[Link: www.agecon.purdue.edu...]

40 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:51:23pm

A comparative religion class elective would be interesting I guess. When I was in 9th grade we learned the basic tenets of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. Even saw a movie with Keanu Reeves as the Buddha which was odd for me since he's always Ted to me. Loved B&T's Excellent Adventure as a time travel obsessed little kid.

41 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:54:00pm

re: #35 jaunte

Some of the people helping to sabotage science education actually imagine that they're 'strong on defense.'

It's like they're oblivious to why our technology is amazing. The science and math nerds are awesome. Though you wll never find me taking an advanced mathematics or science class at college. Stuff is too hard for me but I admire those who immerse themselves into its study.

42 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:57:20pm

I just polished off half a tub of Cool Whip

I have no idea why!

It started innocently

I put a couple of spoonfuls on a small piece of pound cake

Then another spoonful ,,, then another ,, and another,,,

Pretty soon there was no more cake, but the tub of Cool Whip still staring at me

43 Achilles Tang  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:57:36pm

"It's worth the debate" he says.

He should try his luck making his case in a remake of Inherit the Wind.

44 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:59:12pm

re: #36 tnguitarist

I saw the page on this. Ugh. I just wish they would quit dodging and admit their racism. Better out in the open.

We targets of their racism have been clear as day on it's virulence for 400 years, out in the open or not.

45 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 5:59:34pm

re: #43 Naso Tang

"It's worth the debate" he says.

He should try his luck making his case in a remake of Inherit the Wind.

Talking pictures are of the devil.

46 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:00:18pm

re: #1 albusteve

antiAmerican bigot godnut...individually they are shit gushers...collectively they are a grave danger

Conservatives, all.

47 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:00:43pm

re: #35 jaunte

Some of the people helping to sabotage science education actually imagine that they're 'strong on defense.'

He's not here, but I'm ASSuming that DF is totally into science and shuns the anti's. Its all business!

48 sagehen  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:01:18pm

re: #44 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

We targets of their racism have been clear as day on it's virulence for 400 years, out in the open or not.

But didn't it seem to get a little more subtle for a few decades? Weird how that turned around; this is the kind of overt shit I've been telling people was long past, now I have to be embarrassed how wrong I was.

49 Achilles Tang  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:01:47pm

re: #45 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Talking pictures are of the devil.

Except when......

50 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:01:54pm

re: #47 Stanley Sea

He's not here, but I'm ASSuming that DF is totally into science and shuns the anti's. Its all business!

Lots of cons try to distance themselves from their nutbags, even as the nutbags have taken over their primary party.

In the end, though, if Santorum were the nominee, DF would vote for it. Conservatives like that really are that conformist.

51 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:02:17pm

re: #48 sagehen

But didn't it seem to get a little more subtle for a few decades?

No.

52 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:03:00pm

re: #51 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No.

the burden must be crushing

53 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:03:46pm

re: #50 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Maybe it's some sort of clever undercover plot to make you think there's an undercover plot.
/

54 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:03:51pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

It's like they're oblivious to why our technology is amazing. The science and math nerds are awesome. Though you wll never find me taking an advanced mathematics or science class at college. Stuff is too hard for me but I admire those who immerse themselves into its study.

Heard a great story on the (not evil anymore?) NPR about these math whiz kids being recruited from age 16 to do algorithms for defense et al.

Science sucks y'all!!

55 Achilles Tang  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:04:32pm

re: #50 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lots of cons try to distance themselves from their nutbags, even as the nutbags have taken over their primary party.

You are too kind. Perhaps they do at a dinner table of college graduates, but then they go out and vote for the assholes anyway.

56 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:05:00pm

re: #52 albusteve

the burden must be crushing

Lol what burden.

57 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:05:18pm

re: #55 Naso Tang

You are too kind. Perhaps they do at a dinner table of college graduates, but then they go out and vote for the assholes anyway.

Agreed.

58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:05:49pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

Maybe it's some sort of clever undercover plot to make you think there's an undercover plot.
/

Probably not.

59 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:06:03pm

Sorry about the slab o' text; this is from a .pdf from the American Association for the Advancement of Science, on teaching evolution:

Evolution is one of the most robust and widely accepted principles of modern science. It is the foundation for research in a wide array of scientific fields and, accordingly, a core element in science education. The AAAS Board of Directors is deeply concerned, therefore, about legislation and policies recently introduced in a number of states and localities that would undermine the teaching of evolution and deprive students of the education they need to be informed and productive citizens in an increasingly technological, global community. Although their language and strategy differ, all of these proposals, if passed, would weaken science education. The AAAS Board of Directors strongly opposes these attacks on the integrity of science and science education. They threaten not just the teaching of evolution, but students’ understanding of the biological, physical, and geological sciences.

Some bills seek to discredit evolution by emphasizing so-called “flaws” in the theory of evolution or “disagreements” within the scientific community. Others insist that teachers have absolute freedom within their classrooms and cannot be disciplined for teaching non-scientific “alternatives” to evolution. A number of bills require that students be taught to “critically analyze” evolution or to understand “the controversy.” But there is no significant controversy within the scientific community about the validity of the theory of evolution. The current controversy surrounding the teaching of evolution is not a scientific one.

Science is a process of seeking natural explanations for natural phenomena. Scientists ask questions about the natural
world, formulate hypotheses to answer the questions, and collect evidence or data with which to evaluate the hypotheses.
Scientific theories are unified explanations of these phenomena supported by extensive testing and evidence. The theory
of evolution, supported by extensive scientific findings ranging from the fossil record to the molecular genetic relationships
among species, is a unifying concept of modern science. Of course, our understanding of how evolution works continues to be refined by new discoveries.


Many of the proposed bills and policies aim explicitly or implicitly at encouraging the teaching of “Intelligent Design” in
science classes as an alternative to evolution. Although advocates of Intelligent Design usually avoid mentioning a specific creator, the concept is in fact religious, not scientific. In an October 18, 2002 resolution, the AAAS Board underlined the inappropriateness of teaching Intelligent Design in the science classroom because of its “significant conceptual flaws in formulation, a lack of credible scientific evidence, and misrepresentations of scientific facts.” Judge John E. Jones III of the Middle District Court of Pennsylvania firmly reached similar conclusions in the Dover Area School District case.

The sponsors of many of these state and local proposals seem to believe that evolution and religion are in conflict. This is unfortunate. They need not be incompatible. Science and religion ask fundamentally different questions about the world. Many religious leaders have affirmed that they see no conflict between evolution and religion. We and the overwhelming majority of scientists share this view.

60 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:06:05pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

Maybe it's some sort of clever undercover plot to make you think there's an undercover plot.
/

Have you noticed how the quality and complexity of conspiracy theories seem to be lacking the same punch they used to have?

That makes me suspicious.

61 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:06:14pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

Maybe it's some sort of clever undercover plot to make you think there's and undercover plot.
/

The secret handshake changes every other day!

62 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:06:55pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have you noticed how the quality and complexity of conspiracy theories seem to be lacking the same punch they used to have?

That makes me suspicious.

There has to be more behind it!

63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:07:26pm
64 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:07:28pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

Maybe it's some sort of clever undercover plot to make you think there's an undercover plot.
/

One fun feature of every conspiracy theory is that any evidence that strongly contradicts the theory is necessarily fabricated, planted, or otherwise illegitimate. Evidence against the conspiracy theory is part of the conspiracy.

65 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:08:31pm

re: #58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Probably not.

It seems to be working. I'll notify Breitbart and Karl Rove of my findings. Hopefully the Koch Bros will perfect their mind control techniques soon. The United States of Palin thanks you for your patriotic contribution.

66 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:08:54pm

re: #60 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have you noticed how the quality and complexity of conspiracy theories seem to be lacking the same punch they used to have?

That makes me suspicious.

since everyone has already been conspired against, the environment is not target rich anymore...in a few years GenY will be available for conmock

67 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:09:02pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

It seems to be working. I'll notify Breitbart and Karl Rove of my findings. Hopefully the Koch Bros will perfect their mind control techniques soon. The United States of Palin thanks you for your patriotic contribution.

{hic}

68 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:09:44pm

re: #54 Stanley Sea

Heard a great story on the (not evil anymore?) NPR about these math whiz kids being recruited from age 16 to do algorithms for defense et al.

Science sucks y'all!!

Cool deal. I think I am the only person on the autistic spectrum who isn't a math/science savant heh.

69 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:09:49pm

re: #67 sattv4u2

{hic}

KT's got the good shit

70 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:10:06pm

re: #67 sattv4u2

{hic}

Blech

71 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:10:21pm

but I have the bong....heh

72 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:10:41pm

re: #65 Killgore Trout

It seems to be working. I'll notify Breitbart and Karl Rove of my findings. Hopefully the Koch Bros will perfect their mind control techniques soon. The United States of Palin thanks you for your patriotic contribution.

Conservative stupidity is no conspiracy, it's only a fact waiting to be exploited by the proper nouns named above.

/ < - should i?

73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:11:52pm

re: #68 HappyWarrior

Cool deal. I think I am the only person on the autistic spectrum who isn't a math/science savant heh.

Did you see Snow Cake?

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

74 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:12:14pm

re: #71 albusteve

but I have the bong...heh

Did you clean out that water?

75 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:12:59pm

re: #72 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Conservative stupidity is no conspiracy, it's only a fact waiting to be exploited by the proper nouns named above.

/ < - should i?

I see life as more of a choice between black beans and grits....
rock on

76 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:13:17pm

re: #71 albusteve

but I have the bong...heh

77 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:13:48pm

The snake-handlers are restless about ThE GiNgRiCh

A leading religious conservative warned Newt Gingrich Wednesday that he risks losing the support of evangelical women voters if the Republican presidential hopeful refuses to publicly address his "turbulent martial history."

"Mr. Speaker, if you want to get large numbers of evangelicals, particularly women, to vote for you, you must address the issue of your marital past in a way that allays the fears of evangelical women," Richard Land, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, said in an open letter to the former House speaker. "You must address this issue of your marital past directly and transparently and ask folks to forgive you and give you their trust and their vote."

gold, I tell you

GOLD

78 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:14:02pm

re: #73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Did you see Snow Cake?

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

No- don't usually see too uch stuff about highly functioning autistics on film. Did see a rom-com with Josh Hartnett an this woan as two people with Asperger's which I have. And that was weird for me.

79 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:14:34pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

The snake-handlers are restless about ThE GiNgRiCh

gold, I tell you

GOLD

His name is Dick Land and he acts like he's from it all the time.

80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:15:21pm

re: #75 albusteve

I see life as more of a choice between black beans and grits...
rock on

Ok. But what did that have to do with anything.

81 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:16:30pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

No- don't usually see too uch stuff about highly functioning autistics on film. Did see a rom-com with Josh Hartnett an this woan as two people with Asperger's which I have. And that was weird for me.

Can't say I blame you.

Personally, I can't stand rom-coms anyway.

Snow Cake was about someone more into arts than math/science, which is why I wondered.

82 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:16:31pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

The snake-handlers are restless about ThE GiNgRiCh

gold, I tell you

GOLD

in my collecting time it went from $280 an ounce to almost $2000 an ounce...I bought an island and Kieth Richards is my buddy...why do you hate gold?

83 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:17:10pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

you must address the issue of your marital past in a way that allays the fears of evangelical women

I like to see him attempt that one.

84 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:17:17pm

re: #80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ok. But what did that have to do with anything.

proves my point, thanks

85 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:17:25pm

re: #77 WindUpBird

The snake-handlers are restless about ThE GiNgRiCh

gold, I tell you

GOLD

"You must address this issue of your marital past directly and transparently and ask folks to forgive you and give you their trust and their vote

Please. There isn't a politician, pro athlete or any other public persona that couldn't write that "apology" in their sleep

86 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:17:52pm

JACKSON BROWNE to perform at Zuccotti 12/1 at 1pm

Obdi, makeitstop, lawhawk, and those missed in memory, pls go for me.

Premptive Fu to KT and Steve. I dont want to derail the thread, just passing info on one of my fav live performances.

87 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:18:46pm

re: #83 jaunte

I like to see him attempt that one.

see #85

Publicists have word documents already written for those

Just plug in names and dates and read!

88 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:19:14pm

re: #81 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Can't say I blame you.

Personally, I can't stand rom-coms anyway.

Snow Cake was about someone more into arts than math/science, which is why I wondered.

It's just awkward heh. I am more high functioning than most though.

89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:19:16pm

re: #84 albusteve

proves my point, thanks

Lol absurd.

90 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:19:45pm

re: #86 Stanley Sea

JACKSON BROWNE to perform at Zuccotti 12/1 at 1pm

Obdi, makeitstop, lawhawk, and those missed in memory, pls go for me.

Premptive Fu to KT and Steve. I dont want to derail the thread, just passing info on one of my fav live performances.

I met Jackson Brown and drank beer with him...he's taller than usual but liked him

91 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:20:18pm

re: #90 albusteve

I met Jackson Brown and drank beer with him...he's taller than usual but liked him

No he's not

You were just sitting at the time!
/

92 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:20:20pm

re: #83 jaunte

I like to see him attempt that one.

his excuse is love love love love of country! These rubes will fall for it.

93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:20:56pm

re: #88 HappyWarrior

It's just awkward heh. I am more high functioning than most though.

I bet you have a million people pestering you about Temple Grandin.

94 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:21:00pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

"I loved not wisely, but too well."

95 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:21:16pm

re: #85 sattv4u2

"You must address this issue of your marital past directly and transparently and ask folks to forgive you and give you their trust and their vote

Please. There isn't a politician, pro athlete or any other public persona that couldn't write that "apology" in their sleep

Not only that, Newt's a professional bullshit artist. He'd actually to be able to give such a speech with a straight face.

96 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:21:22pm

extra tall people creep me out...they're like trees, not normal

97 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:22:10pm

re: #96 albusteve

extra tall people creep me out...they're like trees, not normal

Hoosier Hoops will be right here to upding that one, I'm sure !!
//

98 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:22:22pm

re: #90 albusteve

I met Jackson Brown and drank beer with him...he's taller than usual but liked him

Did you hear those stories that he used to hit his first wife?

99 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:22:39pm

re: #95 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think he's too cranky now to be good at sucking up.

100 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:22:42pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

his excuse is love love love love of country! These rubes will fall for it.

"Love of my country inspired me to fuck anything that moved!"

101 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:22:55pm

re: #95 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Not only that, Newt's a professional bullshit artist. He'd actually to be able to give such a speech with a straight face.

Again, replace the word "Newt" with just about any public person

"I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky"

102 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:23:38pm

re: #90 albusteve

I met Jackson Brown and drank beer with him...he's taller than usual but liked him

Wow. He's actually in Linda pre McCartney's first photog book of musicians. He was 19 in NYC. I have a very heart spot.

103 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:23:50pm

re: #95 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

re: #101 sattv4u2

Again, replace the word "Newt" with just about any public person

"I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky"

"I just have an unusually wide stance"

104 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:23:58pm

very tall people should be kept in camps...away from the rest of us more typical hu mons...I don't think they should vote either

105 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:24:36pm

re: #93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I bet you have a million people pestering you about Temple Grandin.

I am not open with everyone about my AS. More than I used to be though.

106 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:24:43pm

The Fed-Ex guy insisted my cat lick his face today.

That's not standard, right? Did I wind up paying extra for that?

107 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:25:27pm

re: #106 Obdicut

The Fed-Ex guy insisted my cat lick his face today.

That's not standard, right? Did I wind up paying extra for that?

Cheaper than tipping him, huh?

108 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:25:31pm

re: #86 Stanley Sea

JACKSON BROWNE to perform at Zuccotti 12/1 at 1pm

Obdi, makeitstop, lawhawk, and those missed in memory, pls go for me.
.

Oh hey, I just might.

109 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:25:33pm

re: #90 albusteve

Define taller than normal.

Me here is 6"5'.

110 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:25:34pm

re: #106 Obdicut

How tall was he?

111 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:25:44pm

Jackson Browne - These Days

112 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:26:22pm

re: #110 jaunte

How tall was he?

The Fed Ex guy, or the cat?

113 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:28:02pm

Let's have a war

blame it on the middle class

114 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:28:20pm

re: #98 HoosierHoops

Did you hear those stories that he used to hit his first wife?

I knew his first wife...Jack is not that nice of a guy...only met her a couple of times, Phil was her name and she had a bundle of priceless guitars that she bought for him...that's all I remember...my days in Colorado

115 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:28:38pm

re: #106 Obdicut

The Fed-Ex guy insisted my cat lick his face today.

That's not standard, right? Did I wind up paying extra for that?

Nah, it's the standard, our UPS and fed ex guys become a family thingy. We have the same dudes, every day. 365 or whatever the office hours work out to. They are work family no doubt. Enjoy, he's yours.

116 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:28:59pm

re: #114 albusteve

I knew his first wife...Jack is not that nice of a guy...only met her a couple of times, Phil was her name and she had a bundle of priceless guitars that she bought for him...that's all I remember...my DRINKING days in Colorado

{hic}

117 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:29:04pm

Good news bad news time guys...

My family just spent $400 dollars on a 40 inch High Def TV (our previous one was 27 incher that was around 15 years old) as an early Christmas gift for the entire family.

Bad news: It came out of the box damaged.

Good news: We're going to be able to get it replaced for free.

Better news: By "damaged" I mean there's a 1.5 MM ding on it.

Which is none the less, totally noticeable, don't look at me like that!

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:29:44pm

re: #117 jamesfirecat

i...spent a lot more than that for my (same size-ish) TV *_*

119 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:29:47pm

re: #109 ProLifeLiberal

Define taller than normal.

Me here is 6"5'.

I'm 5/11...I looked up at him as I recall

120 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:29:51pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Jackson Browne - These Days

[Video]

Oh, you have got me started!!

121 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:30:30pm

where it’s better explained by a Creator

but the Creator doesn't need to be explained

see

122 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:31:22pm

re: #118 WindUpBird

i...spent a lot more than that for my (same size-ish) TV *_*

Well we picked it up at Black Friday/Cyber Monday prices...

123 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:33:19pm

re: #120 Stanley Sea

Oh, you have got me started!!

Jackson Browne goes on the very far underrated list. A genius.

124 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:34:07pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Jackson Browne goes on the very far underrated list. A genius.

Always liked Take It Easy, I know he didn't sing it but he did cowrite it I believe.

125 sagehen  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:34:34pm

re: #117 jamesfirecat

Good news bad news time guys...

My family just spent $400 dollars on a 40 inch High Def TV (our previous one was 27 incher that was around 15 years old) as an early Christmas gift for the entire family.

Bad news: It came out of the box damaged.

Good news: We're going to be able to get it replaced for free.

Better news: By "damaged" I mean there's a 1.5 MM ding on it.

Which is none the less, totally noticeable, don't look at me like that!

I just bought a 32" hi def, even paid extra for delivery, and when it didn't show up turned out they entered it in the computer as a pick-up. So now I have to walk ten blocks tomorrow to yell at them and either make them deliver it, or make them refund my delivery charge and I'll haul it home in a cab.

Good thing we're having an unusually warm/dry November, or I'd be way more irritated than I already am.

126 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:35:26pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Jackson Browne goes on the very far underrated list. A genius.

These days is a classic song...It's the perfect song to play on a guitar around the camp fire

127 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:35:51pm

re: #121 engineer dog

No kidding.

All chains of causality run into the kicking-the-can-down-the-road problem.

What Santorum and the like refuse to accept is that their insistence on the modified Mesopotamian creation stories that survived in what they call the OT are just that: reworked ancient stories told for the purpose of religious and political goals.

However, those stories don't solve the infinite regression of causality problem. They do play strongly into the need for certainty and desire for eternal parents, though.

128 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:36:51pm

re: #96 albusteve

extra tall people creep me out...they're like trees, not normal

Other than the uncanny knack they have of sitting right in front of me in a near empty movie theater, I have no issues with tall people!

129 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:37:40pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Jackson Browne goes on the very far underrated list. A genius.

had dinner with him and some other people actually...I was just a bystander, but he was worried about his roof leaking more than anything..not cool to raise questions about songwriting

130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:38:07pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Jackson Browne goes on the very far underrated list. A genius.

And he's really cute.

131 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:39:19pm

re: #129 albusteve

had dinner with him and some other people actually...I was just a bystander, but he was worried about his roof leaking more than anything..not cool to raise questions about songwriting

That's too bad really. My old man met Don Henley before the Eagles got big at a bar in Aspen. Said Don was real down to earth.

132 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:40:54pm

For a devout Catholic, he seems to be deciding not to accept the primacy of the Pope.

Oh, wait, Opus Dei.

133 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:40:59pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

Always liked Take It Easy, I know he didn't sing it but he did cowrite it I believe.

He sang it. Co-wrote and shared.

134 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:42:09pm

re: #133 Stanley Sea

He sang it. Co-wrote and shared.

I thought Glenn Frey sung it. My favorite Eagles song is Peaceful Easy Feeling though.

135 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:42:47pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

That's too bad really. My old man met Don Henley before the Eagles got big at a bar in Aspen. Said Don was real down to earth.

well, I've met my share of R/R stars...most don't want to go into shows, playing, writing...it's not an interview it's breakfast or whatever...Billy Bob loves himself tho...he can go on about himself for days...kinda embarrassing

136 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:43:34pm

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
OT but the first images of Daniel Day-Lewis as Abraham Lincoln are in. Looks good. I like Liam Neeson but DDL will do wonderful in the part.

137 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:43:40pm

re: #130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And he's really cute.

I've seriously thought about going to Santa Monica and just bumping into him. Heeey, it's your new love! Whack, musician worship.

138 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:44:46pm

re: #135 albusteve

well, I've met my share of R/R stars...most don't want to go into shows, playing, writing...it's not an interview it's breakfast or whatever...Billy Bob loves himself tho...he can go on about himself for days...kinda embarrassing

Yeah, I guess I can't blame them since the press is probably on their butts alot. Did you read Keith's autobio by chance? It's on my to read list and my Dad loved it. Was real surprised to hear Keith and Mick aren't so tight.

139 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:45:12pm

re: #134 HappyWarrior

I thought Glenn Frey sung it. My favorite Eagles song is Peaceful Easy Feeling though.

Hotel California is the only significant Eagles tune....a masterpiece at that

140 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:45:39pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

Always liked Take It Easy, I know he didn't sing it but he did cowrite it I believe.

Actually, it was the a cut on For Everyman. Wrote it w/ Glen Frey.

141 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:47:02pm

re: #139 albusteve

Hotel California is the only significant Eagles tune...a masterpiece at that

[Video]

Always did like the riff for that one.

142 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:47:19pm

re: #138 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I guess I can't blame them since the press is probably on their butts alot. Did you read Keith's autobio by chance? It's on my to read list and my Dad loved it. Was real surprised to hear Keith and Mick aren't so tight.

they love each other...they have always trashed each other in the media..they have been friends for almost 60 years....don't be fooled

143 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:47:51pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Always did like the riff for that one.

oh yeah....primo

144 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:48:04pm

Eagles - Hotel California acoustic

145 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:48:43pm

Today's quota of kitteh!

146 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:49:32pm

re: #142 albusteve

they love each other...they have always trashed each other in the media..they have been friends for almost 60 years...don't be fooled

Ok Steve, this is it.. Who in the fuck would love that ego freak Mick, cept for the models & actresses along the way?

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:49:39pm

re: #23 HappyWarrior

I wonder what she thinks of things like the Butler Law that put John Scopes on trial. Listen, if you want your kids taught God created the earth in whatever days, fine but it has no place in a taxpayer funded school or a science class. There is nothing scientific at all about Genesis. Darwin's theories are based in science.

There's a complete refusal to go there, though. This crowd has absolutely no grip on science except 'something much-talked-about that frustratingly refuses to yield a clear confirmation of my spiritual and social beliefs, probably on purpose'.

Hence the vague talk they love about 'well, what if the science shows something different, but the scientists won't let us talk about that?'

148 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:49:43pm

re: #142 albusteve

they love each other...they have always trashed each other in the media..they have been friends for almost 60 years...don't be fooled

Yeah akes sense. It is the longest running partnership in Rock. Love them both but like you, I really like Keith. Just seems like a great dude and student of music.

149 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:50:07pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Always did like the riff for that one.

Kinda like Reeling in the Years by Steely Dan (a fictional dildo, BTW).

150 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:51:34pm

re: #149 austin_blue

Kinda like Reeling in the Years by Steely Dan (a fictional dildo, BTW).

Yeah it is similiar and haha yeah I knew that about SD. I love band names.

151 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:52:51pm

I've only met a few famous people...
I did meet Melissa Etheridge at a party in Napa once.. She is awesome

152 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:53:28pm

re: #146 Stanley Sea

Ok Steve, this is it.. Who in the fuck would love that ego freak Mick, cept for the models & actresses along the way?

Jagger is actually fairly insecure, relation wise....Kieth loves him like a brother...why are you so judgmental?...Jagger is a very decent guy, a woman freak, but that's his private business...he' not an ego freak that I know of

153 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:54:12pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

Jackson Browne goes on the very far underrated list. A genius.

Just finished listening. The best ending

"don't confront me with my failures, I've not forgotten them"

154 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:54:58pm

re: #151 HoosierHoops

I've only met a few famous people...
I did meet Melissa Etheridge at a party in Napa once.. She is awesome

Most of the "famous" I've met have been athletes (and most of those from Bostons pro teams)

Reason ,,,, you do a good job for one of them building a "Media Room" in their house, and they spread the word to their team mates

155 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:55:04pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

Yeah akes sense. It is the longest running partnership in Rock. Love them both but like you, I really like Keith. Just seems like a great dude and student of music.

he is very deep into music history, his roots and his guitar...KR is a very special cat

156 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:56:18pm

re: #152 albusteve

Jagger is actually fairly insecure, relation wise...Kieth loves him like a brother...why are you so judgmental?...Jagger is a very decent guy, a woman freak, but that's his private business...he' not an ego freak that I know of

re: #152 albusteve

Jagger is actually fairly insecure, relation wise...Kieth loves him like a brother...why are you so judgmental?...Jagger is a very decent guy, a woman freak, but that's his private business...he' not an ego freak that I know of

Again, from my gut, dudes that "womanize" have probs. Love the Keith tho. Did you read his auto biog? I haven't yet.

157 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:56:39pm

re: #155 albusteve

he is very deep into music history, his roots and his guitar...KR is a very special cat

Yeah I know about the Stones as a whole being huge fans of Robert Johnson. I have an artists' choice album and they chose 32-20 Blues, a quite good song and I thought Love In Vain on Let It Bleed for the longest time was their own.

158 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:59:04pm

re: #156 Stanley Sea

re: #152 albusteve

Again, from my gut, dudes that "womanize" have probs. Love the Keith tho. Did you read his auto biog? I haven't yet.

check your gut...the Stones are not even close to what the media has made them out to be

159 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:59:20pm

re: #153 Stanley Sea

Just finished listening. The best ending

"don't confront me with my failures, I've not forgotten them"

He's one of those guys who makes it worth buying the original albums and listening carefully. He had a few big hits which undermined his legacy as a decent singer/songwriter.
He also has an epic voice.

160 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 6:59:55pm

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

Hence the vague talk they love about 'well, what if the science shows something different, but the scientists won't let us talk about that?'

The combination of victimhood and conspiracy-think. Nasty combination to battle.

Oh, and here is the direct link to the paper I referenced earlier this afternoon:

The Nubian Complex of Dhofar, Oman: An African Middle Stone Age Industry in Southern Arabia

Fascinating stuff. One of the illustrations:
Map of Nubian Complex occurrences in Northeast Africa and Arabia.

Distribution of Nubian Complex sites and findspots are depicted, as well as MSA/MP sites with human remains. To account for shoreline configuration ~100 ka, sea level is adjusted to −40 m below present levels. Nubian Complex sites include: Jebel Urayf (1), Jebel Naquah (2), Nazlet Khater (3), Abydos (4), Makhadma (5), Taramsa Hill (6), Sodmein Cave (7), Kharga Oasis (8), Bir Tarfawi (9), Bir Sahara (10), Abu Simbel (11), Jebel Brinikol (12), 1035 (13), 1038 (14), Sai Island (15), Gorgora Rockshelter (16), K'One (17), Hargeisa (18), Shabwa (19), Wadi Wa'shah (20), Aybut Al Auwal (21), Aybut Ath Thani (22), Mudayy As Sodh (23), and Jebel Sanoora (24).

So if there were modern humans in Arabia 106 thousand years ago, that is before the ~70kya divergence (from genetics) often spoken about in a recent Out of Africa scenario. Modern humans could have been running all over the region for many thousands of years, interbred with Neanderthals on occasion in the northern extent, before moving out into the rest of Eurasia.

Anyway, Santorum and the rest don't want to look at this, especially the genetic data.

161 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:00:14pm

re: #151 HoosierHoops

I've only met a few famous people...
I did meet Melissa Etheridge at a party in Napa once.. She is awesome

My most famous is Ripken. That was awesome for me since he was my hero as a kid. I've met a few writers lately. John Thorn, baseball's offical historian who upon me telling him I was a long suffering O's fan said at least you're not a Pirates fan to which I replied but they're my second team and I of course told him how as a six year old I lugged Total Baseball around with me all thousands of pages and James Swanson whose Manhunt (book about the hunt for J.W Booth) was just awesome. Even recommended he visit the island where they held the surviving conspirators who weren't executed for snorkeling and history.

162 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:01:03pm

I totally want to see Fox jump on Israel for it's new offensive on the war on Christmas...

163 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:01:28pm

Hey, did you all see that Elvis Costello completely dissed the release of his compilation - saying too expensive.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

Dont buy this, buy Louis Armstrong instead, better, cheaper.

164 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:02:10pm

re: #162 JasonA

I totally want to see Fox jump on Israel for it's new offensive on the war on Christmas...

Those Israeli bastards aren't defying Jesus by celebrating Hanukkah are they? ":)

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:02:17pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

You can be executed for snorkeling and history? I am guilty of one of these two things.

166 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:03:38pm

re: #160 freetoken

The combination of victimhood and conspiracy-think. Nasty combination to battle.

Oh, and here is the direct link to the paper I referenced earlier this afternoon:

The Nubian Complex of Dhofar, Oman: An African Middle Stone Age Industry in Southern Arabia

Fascinating stuff. One of the illustrations:
Map of Nubian Complex occurrences in Northeast Africa and Arabia.

So if there were modern humans in Arabia 106 thousand years ago, that is before the ~70kya divergence (from genetics) often spoken about in a recent Out of Africa scenario. Modern humans could have been running all over the region for many thousands of years, interbred with Neanderthals on occasion in the northern extent, before moving out into the rest of Eurasia.

Anyway, Santorum and the rest don't want to look at this, especially the genetic data.

I don't think creationism is a product of religion as much as it is a product of racism. Afrika = Black People = Monkeys.

Some people will not accept that we are all one people, one world of one source/creator. DNA is DNA.

167 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:03:50pm

re: #157 HappyWarrior

Yeah I know about the Stones as a whole being huge fans of Robert Johnson. I have an artists' choice album and they chose 32-20 Blues, a quite good song and I thought Love In Vain on Let It Bleed for the longest time was their own.

the Stones, almost single handedly, put the Delta blues out there for American listeners...they carried the torch, they made millionaires out of Muddy waters, Howlin Wolf and Chuck Berry...the influence of the Stones is simply immeasurable...they smashed down the door and came raging in

168 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:04:09pm

re: #164 HappyWarrior

Those Israeli bastards aren't defying Jesus by celebrating Hanukkah are they? ":)

Nah, they're just warning Israelis living here that their kids might learn about Christmas. Also, don't date American Jews, because they just don't understand.

169 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:06:18pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

You can be executed for snorkeling and history? I am guilty of one of these two things.

Hahaha my grammar stinks, but anyhow [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
is an awesome place. Had a blast there thanks to my aunt who got my brother, myself, and parents tickets on a boat to the island. I still have the book I bought there when I was 12 and I remember because it subscribed to the view that Dr.Mudd (one of the conspirators) was perhaps fraed and I mentioned this to Swanson whose book debunks that. Great book by the way. I have his follow up at hoe about how they caught Davis and Lincoln's funeral train.

170 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:08:11pm

re: #168 JasonA

That sort of ticked me off, what the Israel Government is doing there. And we're their closest ally.

In other news, the Catholic Church welcomes aliens. The ones with tentacles.

171 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:08:15pm

Stones cover Howlin Wolf
Little Red Rooster

172 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:08:25pm

Brb friends

173 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:10:15pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

You can be executed for snorkeling and history? I am guilty of one of these two things.

oh ,, I thought you just had naturally webbed feet!!

174 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:10:21pm

re: #170 ProLifeLiberal

That sort of ticked me off, what the Israel Government is doing there. And we're their closest ally.

In other news, the Catholic Church welcomes aliens. The ones with tentacles.

He'd like to come meet us but he's afraid he'd blow our minds.

175 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:11:41pm

"I am tired of these motherfucking snakes in this motherfucking...office?"

Mr Hakkul is usually called in whenever a snake is spotted in the area and he has saved many lives over the years...Mr Hakkul has petitioned various government offices over the years demanding a plot of land where he can "conserve" his snakes.
...
Mr Hakkul says his request has been cleared by senior authorities, but the local officials keep delaying it.

On Tuesday, Mr Hakkul went to the Tehsil [revenue] office with a group of supporters and emptied out his bags containing poisonous snakes.
...
"There was total chaos for several hours. Some people started taking photos with their telephone cameras, others brought out sheets to try to cover the snakes. Some came with sticks and wanted to beat up Hakkul."

Mr Azad said Mr Hakkul and his men escaped in the confusion and are yet to be caught.

So are the snakes who are still hiding in the building.

I guess these guys have a future as India's version of BronxZoosCobra?

176 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:12:02pm

re: #166 ggt

Religion predates the invention of writing, and it is also pretty clear that the creation stories floating around SW Asia intermixed between neighboring societies.

These creation stories aren't centered on race, but on death. Ultimately they try to combine a solution to the agony of death with the idea of who is from whose family. It ought to be noted that the oldest parts of the OT mention peoples out of time, that is, the writers wrote about their contemporaries but placed them farther back in time. Thus from the very beginning they were indeed "historical fiction", not unlike modern scifi/fantasy writers who take contemporary figures and travel them back in time to write a story.

The emergence of a superiority complex over black Africans had to come later. Egypt was populated by people of relatively dark skin and from the very beginning of Egyptian civilization they traded with and sometimes relied uppn people to their south, from the headwaters of the Nile. I suspect it was only in the post-Bronze Age collapse that the people of SW Asia and the eastern Mediterranean started to really differentiate themselves from black Africans, but I don't have any hard evidence at hand to prove that.

177 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:13:26pm

re: #174 HappyWarrior

He is another place me and my dad differ. He is majorly anti-Catholic, but I see much good there. I hope they eventually reform (Priest being able to be married, and women being priests), but at least they are consistent on the Pro-Life thing, being both Anti-Execution and Anti-Abortion.

I may disagree with them, but I can respect the consistency.

178 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:13:29pm

re: #174 HappyWarrior

He'd like to come meet us but he's afraid he'd blow our minds.

my daughter met him...she remembered his bad breath...he's just a guy with a very fat job....like Vito Corleon

179 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:13:39pm

re: #167 albusteve

the Stones, almost single handedly, put the Delta blues out there for American listeners...they carried the torch, they made millionaires out of Muddy waters, Howlin Wolf and Chuck Berry...the influence of the Stones is simply immeasurable...they smashed down the door and came raging in

Word...
Of course there were many levels..Some of us (Me) thought Canned heat was authentic.. Bob Hite had the largest collection of Blues albums known.. I liked James Cotton and Hooker and Muddy..Albert and BB King...
I'm sorry for America.. We are losing our music roots and genius artists to time...
At least we still have justin timberlake
/

180 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:15:20pm

re: #178 albusteve

my daughter met him...she remembered his bad breath...he's just a guy with a very fat job...like Vito Corleon

Bowie? Or the pope? I was quoting a line from Starman.

181 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:15:26pm

re: #126 HoosierHoops

These days is a classic song...It's the perfect song to play on a guitar around the camp fire

A very good/great song, but for me & the time of life when I really got into his music, "The Pretender" will always be my favorite followed by "Late for the Sky"

Maybe the picture of somebody you were hoping I might be

182 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:17:12pm

re: #177 ProLifeLiberal

He is another place me and my dad differ. He is majorly anti-Catholic, but I see much good there. I hope they eventually reform (Priest being able to be married, and women being priests), but at least they are consistent on the Pro-Life thing, being both Anti-Execution and Anti-Abortion.

I may disagree with them, but I can respect the consistency.

Church is a mixed bag and this is from someone whose family is about textbook Catholic historically as they get. I do like that they are consistent though on life issues.

183 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:17:21pm

re: #179 HoosierHoops

Word...
Of course there were many levels..Some of us (Me) thought Canned heat was authentic.. Bob Hite had the largest collection of Blues albums known.. I liked James Cotton and Hooker and Muddy..Albert and BB King...
I'm sorry for America.. We are losing our music roots and genius artists to time...
At least we still have justin timberlake
/

and the whole Wilson, Son House story...the stuff of myth...
I saw House in A2 the same weekend as Woodstock

184 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:17:27pm

re: #179 HoosierHoops

Word... !?!?!?

Alrighty there, Hoops Doggie Dog!!!
//

185 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:18:26pm

re: #180 HappyWarrior

Bowie? Or the pope? I was quoting a line from Starman.

she Poped out with a bunch of students...he digs that stuff I guess

186 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:19:52pm

re: #177 ProLifeLiberal

He is another place me and my dad differ. He is majorly anti-Catholic, but I see much good there. I hope they eventually reform (Priest being able to be married, and women being priests), but at least they are consistent on the Pro-Life thing, being both Anti-Execution and Anti-Abortion.

I may disagree with them, but I can respect the consistency.

We catholics did reform. We're called Anglicans or Episcopalians here in America.

;) but no slash.

I'm a hard core liberal theology high church Anglo-Catholic in the Episcopalian church.

187 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:21:12pm

Dear Mr. Frothy Anal Lube,

There is no debate in science about whether evolution occurs. At best they might have differences about mechanisms and speed. But all scientists agree that evolution occurs.

I'll make you a deal. You can teach creationism in science classrooms if I can teach evolution in churches. Deal? /

188 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:21:43pm

re: #186 wlewisiii

We catholics did reform. We're called Anglicans or Episcopalians here in America.

;) but no slash.

I'm a hard core liberal theology high church Anglo-Catholic in the Episcopalian church.

No guilt, no Catholic, sorry man :). You know the joke about the Episcopal (Catholics without the guilt) Just razzing since I respect the Episcopal/Anglican church a great deal.

189 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:21:43pm

re: #182 HappyWarrior

It certainly is mixed, but I think it leans good. It certainly is more consistent than the other dominant denomination in the US (Hi, Southern Baptists). Combined with being friendlier to science, and I think the Catholic Church is okay/decent. Some reform is needed, but that is true in general for many faith groups in the US.

I thought JPII was awesome, and think the current guy is a scumbag.

re: #186 wlewisiii

True, but you have lost much of your number, if I am not mistaken. In numbers, your group isn't hugely significant.

190 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:22:03pm

We got any Trolls tonight? I have a deep need to punch the lights out of something. It is so not me. But, I REALLY WANT TO HURT SOMETHING. Now.

191 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:22:05pm

William Shatner - Common People


Somebody can check the liner notes but I'm pretty sure that's Jackson Browne kicking in at 1:34
192 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:22:12pm

Anyone notice the cute google page for Mark Twain's birthday today?

193 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:23:30pm

re: #192 wlewisiii

Yep.

Also, Bloomberg said something very stupid.

“I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world.”

194 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:23:41pm

re: #186 wlewisiii

We catholics did reform. We're called Anglicans or Episcopalians here in America.

;) but no slash.

I'm a hard core liberal theology high church Anglo-Catholic in the Episcopalian church.

and I'm hard core member of the Sacred Church Of The NFL...almost the same thing, eh?

195 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:24:26pm

re: #189 ProLifeLiberal

re: #186 wlewisiii

True, but you have lost much of your number, if I am not mistaken. In numbers, your group isn't hugely significant.

Stabilized to slight growth. My parish is healthy and still next door to the state capitol and giving Walker grief by simply doing what we should for each other.

Our biggest growth area is in people who feel thrown away by Rome.

196 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:24:27pm

re: #189 ProLifeLiberal

It certainly is mixed, but I think it leans good. It certainly is more consistent than the other dominant denomination in the US (Hi, Southern Baptists). Combined with being friendlier to science, and I think the Catholic Church is okay/decent. Some reform is needed, but that is true in general for many faith groups in the US.

I thought JPII was awesome, and think the current guy is a scumbag.

re: #186 wlewisiii

True, but you have lost much of your number, if I am not mistaken. In numbers, your group isn't hugely significant.

Yeah, I guess I just don't subscribe to any church but I do like RCC more than Southern Baptists. And the RCC's handling of child abuse is something I don't like.

197 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:25:32pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I guess I just don't subscribe to any church but I do like RCC more than Southern Baptists. And the RCC's handling of child abuse is something I don't like.

their uniforms rock

198 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:26:05pm

re: #166 ggt

I don't think creationism is a product of religion as much as it is a product of racism. Afrika = Black People = Monkeys.

Some people will not accept that we are all one people, one world of one source/creator. DNA is DNA.

Our common GATTICA, indeed, makes us all commonly human. But as Napolean famously stated (the pig, not the Frenchman) some animals are more equal than others.

Hence, racism. Us and Them.

It is still relevant in many brains in America. Pitiful, isn't it?

199 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:26:17pm

re: #190 Floral Giraffe

[Link: gamazon.weebly.com...]

200 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:27:01pm

The horror.... unable to talk about magic in a science classroom.

These people are idiots. I went to goddam Catholic school and learned all about evolution and the Big Bang and all the science-y science theories and facts and the issue of creation never came up, because, funny enough, it has nothing to do with science.

NOT. SCIENCE.

Why are so many disingenuous idiots incapable of letting those two simple words sink in?

Oh yeah. Because they need the shallow-thinking malleable rubes to fill the collection plate for the cause.

201 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:27:03pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

William Shatner - Common People

[Video]
Somebody can check the liner notes but I'm pretty sure that's Jackson Brown kicking in at 1:34

I am not sure what worse - that he covered that song or that it actually is arguably better than the Pulp original... :eek:

202 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:27:06pm

I'm sure the good Mr. Santorum then won't mind if we include ALL of man's myths about Creation..including the Billion or so Hindus who at one time or another were taught that Hhumans are in fact Trillions of years old and created all at once. Or, as many devout Jewish Orthodox sects consider a God-directed evolution of man from earlier life forms as likely.

There are in fact hundreds of completely different Creationist myths to teach in schools. I wonder if Mr. Santorum has a particular one in mind- one that would establish a particular religion as legally dominant over any others here in America?

203 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:28:01pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

Indeeeed.

EDIT:

WAIT

I thought that said Joe Jackson, which is in fact correct.

JACKSON BROWNE?

204 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:28:03pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

I think I read some stuff that more or less said that RATzinger was sitting on alot of this information and covering things up on his own.

re: #195 wlewisiii

Not Roman Catholic here, I just like them.

205 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:28:17pm

re: #170 ProLifeLiberal

That sort of ticked me off, what the Israel Government is doing there. And we're their closest ally.

In other news, the Catholic Church welcomes aliens. The ones with tentacles.

Eifelheim is a VERY GOOD Sci-Fi Novel in which this very thing happened.

I thoroughly enjoyed the audio version.

206 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:28:47pm

re: #202 rockeid

I'm sure the good Mr. Santorum then won't mind if we include ALL of man's myths about Creation..including the Billion or so Hindus who at one time or another were taught that Hhumans are in fact Trillions of years old and created all at once. Or, as many devout Jewish Orthodox sects consider a God-directed evolution of man from earlier life forms as likely.

There are in fact hundreds of completely different Creationist myths to teach in schools. I wonder if Mr. Santorum has a particular one in mind- one that would establish a particular religion as legally dominant over any others here in America?

imagine the size of the textbook alone

207 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:30:45pm

re: #204 ProLifeLiberal

I think I read some stuff that more or less said that RATzinger was sitting on alot of this information and covering things up on his own.

re: #195 wlewisiii

Not Roman Catholic here, I just like them.

Well he's one part of it but I was reading articles about the Irish hierarchy covering up abuse there for decades. Don't get me wrong. The church has evolved but still needs work.

208 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:31:24pm

re: #197 albusteve

their uniforms rock

Eastern Orthodox, come on their priest look like Santas.

209 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:32:02pm

re: #170 ProLifeLiberal

In other news, the Catholic Church welcomes aliens. The ones with tentacles.

It only makes sense.

210 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:32:37pm

re: #203 negativ

Indeeed.

[Video]EDIT:

WAIT

I thought that said Joe Jackson, which is in fact correct.

JACKSON BROWNE?

Nice catch. That is Joe Jackson. My bad.

211 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:32:40pm

{{{Floral}}}
Be well my friend.

212 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:32:55pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

[Link: www.boreme.com...]

213 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:34:01pm

re: #176 freetoken

Religion predates the invention of writing, and it is also pretty clear that the creation stories floating around SW Asia intermixed between neighboring societies.

These creation stories aren't centered on race, but on death. Ultimately they try to combine a solution to the agony of death with the idea of who is from whose family. It ought to be noted that the oldest parts of the OT mention peoples out of time, that is, the writers wrote about their contemporaries but placed them farther back in time. Thus from the very beginning they were indeed "historical fiction", not unlike modern scifi/fantasy writers who take contemporary figures and travel them back in time to write a story.

The emergence of a superiority complex over black Africans had to come later. Egypt was populated by people of relatively dark skin and from the very beginning of Egyptian civilization they traded with and sometimes relied uppn people to their south, from the headwaters of the Nile. I suspect it was only in the post-Bronze Age collapse that the people of SW Asia and the eastern Mediterranean started to really differentiate themselves from black Africans, but I don't have any hard evidence at hand to prove that.

In The History of Black Catholics in the United States, Cyprian Davis writes that King Soloman's "wife" is described as dark and swarthy. The Catholic Hierarchy at some point interpreted that as "Italian", she was dark and swarthy from working in the vineyards. I looked in my version of the NAB, and indeed it does say that.

IIRC, she was Nubian? Ethiopian? Dark Afrikan . . .., but that couldn't be, just as none of the past Popes could be Afrikan . . .

Humans!

214 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:35:29pm

rmehta2 Raghav Mehta

@AndrewBreitbart has the funniest twitter ever. He also might be clinically insane: bit.ly/tXZHTx

215 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:35:35pm

re: #208 HappyWarrior

Eastern Orthodox, come on their priest look like Santas.

pious chic

216 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:36:52pm

re: #177 ProLifeLiberal

He is another place me and my dad differ. He is majorly anti-Catholic, but I see much good there. I hope they eventually reform (Priest being able to be married, and women being priests), but at least they are consistent on the Pro-Life thing, being both Anti-Execution and Anti-Abortion.

I may disagree with them, but I can respect the consistency.

I'm not totally ant-Catholic, I just don't go to Church or give them any money. I have big issues with doctrine and man's interpretation of G-d's Word. I do however have trememdous respect for the preserved history and education standards of the Church. The Vatican Website is a wonderful resource--interesting what you can learn that most Catholics don't know. The Church itself seems much more compassionate and understanding of human nature than I was taught in RC school≥

217 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:39:04pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

Well he's one part of it but I was reading articles about the Irish hierarchy covering up abuse there for decades. Don't get me wrong. The church has evolved but still needs work.

No doubt. But the problem with Joey the Rat is that he was instrumental in the cover up.

And he gets a pass?

He is guilty of covering up child rape. Pure and simple. And for that he should quit his post. If he is God's infallible conduit to the Church, then God condones his actions.

Which would mean God condones child rapes.

This is a QED argument. Try to poke a hole in it.

Angry? Outraged? Oh, my yes.

It's part of the reason I quit the Church when I was seventeen. The hypocrisy is, and was, overwhelming.

218 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:39:27pm

drinking the blood of christ is so bizarre, it's overwhelming...I mean, what are you thinking?

219 Nick Schroeder  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:39:31pm

re: #202 rockeid

We had that in school too. It was a separate class, called 'religious studies'. It focused mostly on Catholicism, being a Catholic school and all, but we did on many occasions discuss the beliefs of other faiths without passing judgement on those faiths. There were a couple of occasions that would go something like:

Teacher: "Islam, for example, claims that Jesus is a prophet, not the son of god."
Student: "Well which one is correct?"
Teacher: "As I Catholic, naturally I believe that Jesus was the son of god, but the *air quotes* correct answer *air quotes* is a matter of personal faith."

Of course, this was all before 9/11, and we all know common sense and tolerance are outmoded concepts that no longer serve any purpose.

220 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:40:39pm

re: #200 Nick Schroeder

The horror... unable to talk about magic in a science classroom.

These people are idiots. I went to goddam Catholic school and learned all about evolution and the Big Bang and all the science-y science theories and facts and the issue of creation never came up, because, funny enough, it has nothing to do with science.

NOT. SCIENCE.

Why are so many disingenuous idiots incapable of letting those two simple words sink in?

Oh yeah. Because they need the shallow-thinking malleable rubes to fill the collection plate for the cause.

I know! Some of the most accomplished scientists have been and are Catholic Priests. How many doctors and scientists have studied at Catholic Universities?

I don't get Santorum. He is looney tunes.

221 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:41:45pm

re: #217 austin_blue

No doubt. But the problem with Joey the Rat is that he was instrumental in the cover up.

And he gets a pass?

He is guilty of covering up child rape. Pure and simple. And for that he should quit his post. If he is God's infallible conduit to the Church, then God condones his actions.

Which would mean God condones his actions, which includes covering up child rapes.

This is a QED argument. Try to poke a hole in it.

Angry? Outraged? Oh, my yes.

It's part of the reason I quit the Church when I was seventeen. The hypocrisy is, and was, overwhelming.

Oh believe me not giving Ratzinger a pass. Saying there were others who are guilty of covering shit up too.

222 darthstar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:41:46pm

Santorum is evidence of Incompetent Design.

223 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:42:08pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

Oh, much work remains to be done. However, I think they can get to full modernity somewhat quickly.

Which may be impossible to do at all for the Southern Baptists.

Notice how I emphasized Benedict XIV's name?

224 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:42:21pm

re: #218 albusteve

drinking the blood of christ is so bizarre, it's overwhelming...I mean, what are you thinking?

What, ritual cannibalism makes you feel oogy?

225 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:43:33pm

re: #221 HappyWarrior

Oh believe me not giving Ratzinger a pass. Saying there were others who are guilty of covering shit up too.

Yeah, but HE'S THE FUCKING POPE!

226 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:44:20pm

re: #220 ggt

I know! Some of the most accomplished scientists have been and are Catholic Priests. How many doctors and scientists have studied at Catholic Universities?

I don't get Santorum. He is looney tunes.

Santorum is a side show freak...like the bearded lady, or some two headed godzombie midget

227 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:45:54pm

re: #226 albusteve

Santorum is a side show freak...like the bearded lady, or some two headed godzombie midget

If he was as Catholic as he proposes, he would not pander to the Party under any circumstances on such an issue.

228 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:46:37pm

re: #225 austin_blue

Yeah, but HE'S THE FUCKING POPE!

YEs, he is. I am not disagreeing with you at all. Just stating that the church had these problems in the past too before he was Pope. Ultimately he is responsible absolutely but so are the bishops and cardinals who ignore child abuse allegations and ship priests to other parishes.

229 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:47:16pm

re: #198 austin_blue

Our common GATTICA, indeed, makes us all commonly human. But as Napolean famously stated (the pig, not the Frenchman) some animals are more equal than others.

Hence, racism. Us and Them.

It is still relevant in many brains in America. Pitiful, isn't it?

Insecure individuals who need to have a concrete world of good and bad.

230 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:47:45pm

re: #224 austin_blue

What, ritual cannibalism makes you feel oogy?

billions of....people... repeat this stomach churning ritual every week?....
what?...please explain

231 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:48:02pm

I just don't understand this entire debate. If you want your kid to learn about creationism, teach them about it at home, or at sunday school. Its a nice idea. It makes you feel good. It helps explain things you are too intellectually lazy to attempt to explore on your own. It is your right to do that. I simply don't understand why this is a debate. The answer must be that it has absolutely nothing to do with competing theories of the universe's origins, and everything to do with proselytization, indoctrination, and an attempt at alienation of those whose beliefs may differ. I simply love when these aholes talk about the taliban and the clerics in Iran as if they are somehow different.

232 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:48:10pm

re: #225 austin_blue

And so was Rodrigo Borgia, plausibly the worst pope in history. Again, there are issues in the Catholic Church, but in the last century or so, they have modernized. Their have been issues, but then again, many churches have as well.

My gripe with Benedict XVI is that he is taking the Church Backwards.

233 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:48:52pm

re: #227 ggt

If he was as Catholic as he proposes, he would not pander to the Party under any circumstances on such an issue.

I'm lost with this religion stuff....I'm out there

234 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:49:21pm

re: #231 Petero1818

I just don't understand this entire debate. If you want your kid to learn about creationism, teach them about it at home, or at sunday school. Its a nice idea. It makes you feel good. It helps explain things you are too intellectually lazy to attempt to explore on your own. It is your right to do that. I simply don't understand why this is a debate. The answer must be that it has absolutely nothing to do with competing theories of the universe's origins, and everything to do with proselytization, indoctrination, and an attempt at alienation of those whose beliefs may differ. I simply love when these aholes talk about the taliban and the clerics in Iran as if they are somehow different.

By even learning the word Evolution, your child might be tainted by Satan and then forever at risk for temptation.

/gah

235 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:50:07pm

re: #230 albusteve

billions of...people... repeat this stomach churning ritual every week?...
what?...please explain

236 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:50:24pm

re: #231 Petero1818

They're not so much concerned about their own kids as they are about influencing other people's kids.

237 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:50:42pm

re: #234 ggt

By even learning the word Evolution, your child might be tainted by Satan and then forever at risk for temptation.

/gah

It's true. Just thinking about evolution makes you a homosexual atheist Marxist.//

238 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:51:05pm

re: #231 Petero1818

I just don't understand this entire debate. If you want your kid to learn about creationism, teach them about it at home, or at sunday school. Its a nice idea. It makes you feel good. It helps explain things you are too intellectually lazy to attempt to explore on your own. It is your right to do that. I simply don't understand why this is a debate. The answer must be that it has absolutely nothing to do with competing theories of the universe's origins, and everything to do with proselytization, indoctrination, and an attempt at alienation of those whose beliefs may differ. I simply love when these aholes talk about the taliban and the clerics in Iran as if they are somehow different.

Actually, IMHO, it has more to do with Money and Power.

Churches and Preachers who preach Creationism will also tell you they take Visa, Mastercard and Visa at the end of every talk.

239 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:51:38pm

re: #236 jaunte

They're not so much concerned about their own kids as they are about influencing other people's kids.

Same thing with their desire to censor TV programs they don't like. Religious conservatives are very Nanny state when push comes to shove.

240 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:52:06pm

re: #232 ProLifeLiberal

And so was Rodrigo Borgia, plausibly the worst pope in history. Again, there are issues in the Catholic Church, but in the last century or so, they have modernized. Their have been issues, but then again, many churches have as well.

My gripe with Benedict XVI is that he is taking the Church Backwards.

My gripe is regarding his shoes:
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

241 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:52:18pm

re: #230 albusteve

billions of...people... repeat this stomach churning ritual every week?...
what?...please explain

Rather than sacrificing an animal, to be cleansed of sin.

242 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:52:38pm

re: #238 ggt

Actually, IMHO, it has more to do with Money and Power.

Churches and Preachers who preach Creationism will also tell you they take Visa, Mastercard and Visa at the end of every talk.

Ah the megachurch where I can get KFC and hear why all non born agains are going to Hell in one setting.

243 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:52:52pm

re: #235 austin_blue

good one

244 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:52:57pm

re: #240 Petero1818

My gripe is regarding his shoes:
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

I thought JPII had the Ruby Slippers, must be a Pope thing.

245 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:53:30pm

re: #232 ProLifeLiberal

And so was Rodrigo Borgia, plausibly the worst pope in history. Again, there are issues in the Catholic Church, but in the last century or so, they have modernized. Their have been issues, but then again, many churches have as well.

My gripe with Benedict XVI is that he is taking the Church Backwards.

My gripe is that he facilitated the cover up of rampant child rapes by Priests around the world. The Borgias have been dead for centuries.

This RatFucker is the infallible link between God and the Church TODAY.

Get the difference?

246 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:53:38pm

re: #244 ggt

I thought JPII had the Ruby Slippers, must be a Pope thing.

"There's no place like Home Rome."

247 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:55:26pm

re: #230 albusteve

billions of...people... repeat this stomach churning ritual every week?...
what?...please explain

Yawn. The Roman's had that complaint dude. I'm sure you can come up with something else to complain about us with? Perhaps something in the last millenium?

// Well, sort of. It's true but hard to show how light hearted I'm saying it here.

248 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:55:40pm

re: #237 HappyWarrior

It's true. Just thinking about evolution makes you a homosexual atheist Marxist.//

And you know what that mean? Sharia law.

249 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:55:43pm

re: #245 austin_blue

Yeah, and I despise him for that too. However, my suggestion was more along the lines that alot of Popes are "duds," so to speak.

He's just the latest "dud."

Edit: I also must agree with the demonym you gave him.

250 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:56:30pm

re: #248 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And you know what that mean? Sharia law.

M-m-m-my Sharia.

251 jaunte  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:57:48pm

Spiegel puts the boot in:

Club der Lügner, Demagogen, Ignoranten

U.S. Republicans
Club of liars, demagogues, ignorant

Africa is a country. In Libya, the Taliban rule. Muslims are terrorists, immigrants are usually criminal, Occupy protesters always dirty. And women who feel sexually harassed, should please not nice such a fuss.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the U.S. Republicans. Or rather: the Distortion World in her presidential campaign.

252 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 7:59:40pm

To me what's interesting about the Fundamentalist Protestant mega churches is Protestantism especially evangelical Protestantism's history of rejecting the RCC for being too lavish and straying from the original intent of the church. For all David Barton's love of Knox and Calvin. They'd be WTF dude if they saw his and the others twisting Christianity into a business

253 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:00:55pm

re: #249 ProLifeLiberal

Yeah, and I despise him for that too. However, my suggestion was more along the lines that alot of Popes are "duds," so to speak.

He's just the latest "dud."

He's not just a dud. He is poison. He is evil. He is a piece of shit masquerading as a human. And the Church made him Pope.

And so he remains. The Church retains him despite the documented evidence that he was part and parcel of the cover up of widespread child rape.

What possible defense does the Church have?

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:02:23pm

re: #213 ggt

In The History of Black Catholics in the United States, Cyprian Davis writes that King Soloman's "wife" is described as dark and swarthy. The Catholic Hierarchy at some point interpreted that as "Italian", she was dark and swarthy from working in the vineyards. I looked in my version of the NAB, and indeed it does say that.

IIRC, she was Nubian? Ethiopian? Dark Afrikan . . .., but that couldn't be, just as none of the past Popes could be Afrikan . . .

Humans!

If we're talking about the girl from the Song of Songs, she says,

Dark am I, yet lovely, O daughters of Jerusalem, dark like the tents of Kedar, like the tent curtains of Solomon. Do not stare at me because I am dark, because I am darkened by the sun. My mother's sons were angry with me and made me take care of the vineyards; my own vineyard I have neglected.

It's hard to make much of an historical argument out of anything about Shir Hashirim. However, the famous Queen of Sheba associated with Solomon, would assuredly have been Ethiopian. (The Ethiopian tradition says that her name was Makeda, that she came home pregnant by Solomon, and that their son succeeded her.)

255 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:02:30pm

re: #250 HappyWarrior

M-m-m-my Sharia.

TAQIYYA!

256 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:03:49pm

re: #249 ProLifeLiberal

Yeah, and I despise him for that too. However, my suggestion was more along the lines that alot of Popes are "duds," so to speak.

He's just the latest "dud."

True enough. And while there have been a few good/saintly ones, the real good people in the church are found most everywhere but Rome. Francis of Assisi, Benedict of Nursia, Hildegard of Bingen, Patrick, Richard Hooker, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Joseph Bernardin just off the top of my head. Those are the ones to care about. Not the one who happens to currently be Bishop of Rome.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:04:51pm

re: #217 austin_blue

He is guilty of covering up child rape. Pure and simple. And for that he should quit his post. If he is God's infallible conduit to the Church, then God condones his actions.

Which would mean God condones child rapes.

This is a QED argument. Try to poke a hole in it.

The Pope is infalliable only when speaking ex cathedra.

Which is not to say that I wouldn't like to see much sackcloth and weeping going on in Rome, and some serious, ass-kicking, changes made to the system.

258 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:05:23pm

re: #256 wlewisiii

True enough. And while there have been a few good/saintly ones, the real good people in the church are found most everywhere but Rome. Francis of Assisi, Benedict of Nursia, Hildegard of Bingen, Patrick, Richard Hooker, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Joseph Bernardin just off the top of my head. Those are the ones to care about. Not the one who happens to currently be Bishop of Rome.

Thought Bonhoeffer was Lutheran. Speaking of Francis, I'm not a religious man but the so called Prayer of St. Francis moves me.

259 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:05:39pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

If we're talking about the girl from the Song of Songs, she says,

Dark am I, yet lovely, O daughters of Jerusalem, dark like the tents of Kedar, like the tent curtains of Solomon. Do not stare at me because I am dark, because I am darkened by the sun. My mother's sons were angry with me and made me take care of the vineyards; my own vineyard I have neglected.

It's hard to make much of an historical argument out of anything about Shir Hashirim. However, the famous Queen of Sheba associated with Solomon, would assuredly have been Ethiopian. (The Ethiopian tradition says that her name was Makeda, that she came home pregnant by Solomon, and that their son succeeded her.)

Yes, Queen of Sheba. I'll have to look it all up tomorrow and report back.

260 Kragar  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:05:59pm

Proof of the non-existence of God:

Treat Williams and Joe Piscapo in a buddy cop movie where they fight zombie criminals.

261 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:06:23pm

re: #253 austin_blue

He's not just a dud. He is poison. He is evil. He is a piece of shit masquerading as a human. And the Church made him Pope.

And so he remains. The Church retains him despite the documented evidence that he was part and parcel of the cover up of widespread child rape.

What possible defense does the Church have?

heh...good for him I'm not the referee....this fuck should be in chains

262 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:08:18pm

re: #258 HappyWarrior

Thought Bonhoeffer was Lutheran. Speaking of Francis, I'm not a religious man but the so called Prayer of St. Francis moves me.

The word catholic means universal. I try not to get too hung up on denominational affiliations of the ones who can teach me how to live a better life.

263 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:08:25pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Again though, this has happened in the Catholic Church in the past, even before Benedict XVI.

re: #252 HappyWarrior

They look more like the Corrupt Pre-Restoration Catholic Church, to be honest.

264 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:08:35pm

re: #261 albusteve

heh...good for him I'm not the referee...this fuck should be in chains

I'd love to see a prosecutor try it.

Or a victim.

265 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:08:47pm

re: #213 ggt

...The Catholic Hierarchy at some point interpreted that as "Italian", she was dark and swarthy from working in the vineyards. I looked in my version of the NAB, and indeed it does say that.

IIRC, she was Nubian? Ethiopian? Dark Afrikan . . .., but that couldn't be, just as none of the past Popes could be Afrikan . . .

And yet that is rather late in the history of the religious myths' journey through the ages. It's all post-Greco-Roman European view of the African continent. Way back when these creation stories were first put to paper clay the issues of the day were inter-tribal and inter-city competition, from the Euphrates to the Nile. The invention of kingdoms and empires and all that.

Skin color would have become more important, probably, in the Babylon of the neo-Babylonian empire, and I often wonder if the stories of Solomon were reworked then and there to help the displaced (captive) Judahites in that city differentiate themselves from the other subjugated peoples with whom they had to intermix.

266 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:09:04pm

Oh boy, I missed a lot. Anything worth repeating?

267 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:10:04pm

re: #266 Stanley Sea

Oh boy, I missed a lot. Anything worth repeating?

Ah, read up a bit. Forget it.

268 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:10:24pm

re: #265 freetoken

And yet that is rather late in the history of the religious myths' journey through the ages. It's all post-Greco-Roman European view of the African continent. Way back when these creation stories were first put to paper clay the issues of the day were inter-tribal and inter-city competition, from the Euphrates to the Nile. The invention of kingdoms and empires and all that.

Skin color would have become more important, probably, in the Babylon of the neo-Babylonian empire, and I often wonder if the stories of Solomon were reworked then and there to help the displaced (captive) Judahites in that city differentiate themselves from the other subjugated peoples with whom they had to intermix.

It's a conundrum.

269 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:10:37pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Proof of the non-existence of God:

Treat Williams and Joe Piscapo in a buddy cop movie where they fight zombie criminals.

I own Dead Heat on VHS, and I can quote tons of it verbatim :D

"Roger, roger, but you can't get him if yer dead, man!"

270 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:10:46pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

Benedict XVI is 84 now.

To be perfectly blunt, we won't have to deal with him much longer.

271 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:11:30pm

re: #266 Stanley Sea

Oh boy, I missed a lot. Anything worth repeating?

*AHEM*

:)

272 albusteve  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:11:40pm

re: #264 ggt

I'd love to see a prosecutor try it.

Or a victim.

I have no us for the Vatican..I think it should be shut down, auctioned off, and turned into low rent housing

273 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:12:11pm

re: #260 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Proof of the non-existence of God:

Treat Williams and Joe Piscapo in a buddy cop movie where they fight zombie criminals.


seriously, if you aren't laughing your balls off by the end of this, there's no hope

274 flyfisherman  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:12:41pm

re: #270 ProLifeLiberal

The Pope is completely insignificant anyway, who cares what he says?

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:13:19pm

re: #230 albusteve

billions of...people... repeat this stomach churning ritual every week?...
what?...please explain

Why?

276 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:13:45pm

re: #274 flyfisherman

The Pope is completely insignificant anyway, who cares what he says?

Each POTUS seems to be required to meet with him, at the Vatican.

277 freetoken  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:14:25pm

re: #268 ggt

It's a conundrum.

Well, scholars can untangle some of it.

I guess my over-all point is that the idea of race, in particular the idea of skin color, is something to which we are sensitive. But roll the clock back to the origin of writing is Mesopotamia, and the first recordings of the religious stories, and skin color wasn't necessarily the "thing" that mattered. What was important was answering the question of "why is there a king that rules my village?". We take for granted the vertical authority of governance, but that is a human invention that has evolved over the millennia.

278 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:15:00pm

re: #270 ProLifeLiberal

Benedict XVI is 84 now.

To be perfectly blunt, we won't have to deal with him much longer.

And if we religions are correct, there will be justice after that. Mark 9:42?

279 flyfisherman  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:15:27pm

re: #276 ggt

Yep that's true. I guess each POTUS must at least acknowledge he presence

280 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:15:54pm

In the list of dignitaries from various states for JPII funeral on Wikipedia, I noticed something.

Country (order per French spelling)

Why are they using French? They are within Italy.

281 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:15:57pm

re: #262 wlewisiii

The word catholic means universal. I try not to get too hung up on denominational affiliations of the ones who can teach me how to live a better life.

True be that.

282 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:17:51pm

re: #278 wlewisiii

Islam has the same idea. Which I follow. I just have a higher view of the Catholic Church (minus the current pope) than the dominant current form of Christianity in the US (Evangelical/Southern Baptist).

283 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:18:19pm

re: #263 ProLifeLiberal

Again though, this has happened in the Catholic Church in the past, even before Benedict XVI.

re: #252 HappyWarrior

They look more like the Corrupt Pre-Restoration Catholic Church, to be honest.

They're Capitalists above being Christians see their condemnations of any left wing movement and attempts to link capitalism with Christianity. If they were honest about that, they wouldn't annoy me but no they go around acting like they're these pious people.

284 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:19:37pm

re: #276 ggt

Each POTUS seems to be required to meet with him, at the Vatican.

As always (sad tears) it's about where the money/support is.

Same, but with bad bad, Penn State, Inc.

285 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:19:54pm

re: #270 ProLifeLiberal

Benedict XVI is 84 now.

To be perfectly blunt, we won't have to deal with him much longer.

Ah, well, it's okay that he remains the Pope then, eh? All those child rapes are just...

Bygones! Nothing to see here!

Just when, exactly, did your capacity for outrage disappear? At a fundamental level, you are accepting this travesty. Embracing it as a transitory problem.

Sorry PLL, but that is just pitiful. Have any kids? Imagine a Priest's cock up your child's ten-year old ass, and then rationalize; "This too will pass."

286 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:20:24pm

re: #283 HappyWarrior

That's a brilliant way to think about. To be honest, I hadn't thought of it that way before. I'm stealing your idea.

Also, their faith is weak.

287 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:22:06pm

re: #285 austin_blue

No, it isn't okay for him to stay Pope. However, there is no precedent for the Pope being ejected from the papacy, and the process will likely take longer than he has left on Earth.

I take solace in the fact that he will be harshly punished after death.

288 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:22:26pm

re: #277 freetoken

Well, scholars can untangle some of it.

I guess my over-all point is that the idea of race, in particular the idea of skin color, is something to which we are sensitive. But roll the clock back to the origin of writing is Mesopotamia, and the first recordings of the religious stories, and skin color wasn't necessarily the "thing" that mattered. What was important was answering the question of "why is there a king that rules my village?". We take for granted the vertical authority of governance, but that is a human invention that has evolved over the millennia.

Hey. Read this.

289 austin_blue  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:23:26pm

re: #287 ProLifeLiberal

No, it isn't okay for him to stay Pope. However, there is no precedent for the Pope being ejected from the papacy, and the process will likely take longer than he has left on Earth.

I take solace in the fact that he will be harshly punished after death.

I want him to be punished *here*, where we can all watch.

290 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:24:37pm

re: #286 ProLifeLiberal

That's a brilliant way to think about. To be honest, I hadn't thought of it that way before. I'm stealing your idea.

Also, their faith is weak.

Go for it. Seriously, it amuses me how all these evangelical televangelists rant and rave about how we need to return to the Bible and then we hear they're worth millions. My late great uncle was a simple parish priest in a poor part of the deep South. I wonder what he'd make of those guys.

291 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:29:19pm

re: #289 austin_blue

I would like that too, but I simply think the time isn't there for it. He won't make it that long. Demography says so.

re: #290 HappyWarrior

Your Great-Uncle would have been disappoint, then whipped their asses.

It'll be amusing, a Muslim bashing people for being not properly Christian/ using Christianity in vain/ being false Christians.

292 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:31:25pm

re: #277 freetoken

Well, scholars can untangle some of it.

I guess my over-all point is that the idea of race, in particular the idea of skin color, is something to which we are sensitive. But roll the clock back to the origin of writing is Mesopotamia, and the first recordings of the religious stories, and skin color wasn't necessarily the "thing" that mattered. What was important was answering the question of "why is there a king that rules my village?". We take for granted the vertical authority of governance, but that is a human invention that has evolved over the millennia.

true!

293 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:33:46pm

re: #287 ProLifeLiberal

No, it isn't okay for him to stay Pope. However, there is no precedent for the Pope being ejected from the papacy, and the process will likely take longer than he has left on Earth.

I take solace in the fact that he will be harshly punished after death.

Which is the Church's approach. Earthly things do not matter . . . .

/I don't agree.

294 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:39:47pm

re: #293 ggt

Well, Earthly Things do matter. However, he will die before can be punished. He's already 84.

295 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 30, 2011 8:41:30pm

re: #294 ProLifeLiberal

Well, Earthly Things do matter. However, he will die before can be punished. He's already 84.

Well, who knows how he's been punished privately, or inwardly. A public spectacle may never happen, but we don't know that he hasn't also suffered in some way as a result.


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