Jump to bottom

361 comments
1 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:31:40pm

Well, this should be fun, if not illuminating.

2 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:31:52pm

a little eye shadow, some Aqua Net….good to go

3 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:32:10pm

What’s the drinking game?

4 Major Tom  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:32:11pm

spray tan…

5 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:32:59pm

re: #1 austin_blue

Well, this should be fun, if not illuminating.

alternatively…there is the MSU/Wis game…a real barnburner

6 Major Tom  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:33:22pm

Even Huntsman’s three daughters couldn’t get him on Fox News.

7 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:34:38pm

re: #5 albusteve

alternatively…there is the MSU/Wis game…a real barnburner

I’m watching Okie/Okie State. 17-0 ‘Pokes.

8 elizajane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:35:01pm

Did Mitt just say that the EPA is a tool in the hands of Obama to crush the free enterprise system of America? Isn’t he supposed to be the grown-up in this room?

9 blueraven  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:36:32pm

Government insurance DRINK!

10 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:37:12pm

re: #7 austin_blue

I’m watching Okie/Okie State. 17-0 ‘Pokes.

my other game up on Fox…MSU is on my TV

11 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:37:46pm

What the hell is a Federal teacher’s union?

12 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:38:19pm

So… feds don’t need to get involved in environmental issues.

Feds need to get involved in education.

Kay.

13 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:38:40pm

re: #11 Decatur Deb

What the hell is a Federal teacher’s union?

A yeti.

14 Linden Arden  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:38:55pm

I think they are all wearing the same flag pin with some type of spot in the center.

15 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:39:06pm

I wonder how many of Hoosier Hoop’s neighbors are on suicide watch right now?

24-0 OSU.

16 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:39:51pm

Night Lizards.

17 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:40:08pm

bbl

18 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:40:09pm

re: #12 JasonA

So… feds don’t need to get involved in environmental issues.

Feds need to get involved in education.

Kay.

Because we’re just supposed to trust companies to do the right thing with the environment? Yeah, that’s worked out REAL well so far.

19 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:40:20pm

re: #15 oaktree

I wonder how many of Hoosier Hoop’s neighbors are on suicide watch right now?

24-0 OSU.

unreal…OU is getting stomped

20 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:40:28pm

re: #8 elizajane

Did Mitt just say that the EPA is a tool in the hands of Obama to crush the free enterprise system of America? Isn’t he supposed to be the grown-up in this room?

Supposed to but he’s not. Anyhow, having noticed that my AG is there. I too would like to apologize for putting him on the rest of America.

21 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:40:28pm

re: #16 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards.

Bug-out.

22 Linden Arden  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:40:55pm

“we need strict Constructionists who share MY values”

23 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:41:08pm

Pam Bondi’s 46?!?

24 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:41:08pm

Mitt wants Supreme Court justices who share his values…but which ones? The ones he has now or the ones he used to have?

25 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:41:56pm

Is it over yet?

Or, is there a live stream?

26 Major Tom  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:42:10pm

Romney-Bot… Does anyone believe a word he says anymore?

27 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:42:21pm

re: #24 bratwurst

Mitt wants Supreme Court justices who share his values…but which ones? The ones he has now or the ones he used to have?

Oh, you did NOT just go there.

28 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:42:40pm

re: #23 JasonA

Pam Bondi’s 46?!?

Drinks the essence of Gelflings.

29 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:43:09pm

re: #24 bratwurst

Mitt wants Supreme Court justices who share his values…but which ones? The ones he has now or the ones he used to have?

Mitt reflects all values of all Americans. He is the ultimate cipher and doppleganger - therefore you should vote for him.
/

30 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:43:17pm

Lemme guess Romney’s ideal judge is a Scalia/Alito/Thomas clone.

31 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:43:45pm

re: #26 Major Tom

Romney-Bot… Does anyone believe a word he says anymore?

Nope. Hence NEWT!!!

32 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:43:59pm

re: #24 bratwurst

Mitt wants Supreme Court justices who share his values…but which ones? The ones he has now or the ones he used to have?

ownage.

33 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:44:56pm

re: #30 HappyWarrior

Lemme guess Romney’s ideal judge is a Scalia/Alito/Thomas clone.

Um, that’s almost exactly what he said.

34 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:45:37pm

So, I see from looking downstairs. Newt wants to get rid of the EPA. Mitt thinks the EPA has no business regulating water. And Santorum thinks this administration are a bunch of environmental extremists. Do these guys live on Pluto?

35 jaunte  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:46:35pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

And Bachmann thinks the EPA is taking over private businesses.

36 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:46:54pm

re: #33 JasonA

Um, that’s almost exactly what he said.

Ha- I am not even watching. But I’ve heard that before so many times. They always say that combined with some screed about “activist judges” without explaining why their judges are better.

37 blueraven  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:46:57pm

Mitt must think we are all stupid.

But then again this is FNC, the station of the uninformed. So I guess he can get away with it.

38 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:47:19pm

re: #35 jaunte

And Bachmann thinks the EPA is taking over private businesses.

Cocaine is a helluva drug.

39 Major Tom  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:47:27pm

Who will the nominee be?

40 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:47:42pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Do these guys live on Pluto?

No, but they won’t rest until earth resembles it…

41 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:47:53pm

re: #15 oaktree

I might be a Sooner, but I am also realistic. I thought we would lose.

42 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:47:54pm

re: #37 blueraven

Mitt must think we are all stupid.

But then again this is FNC, the station of the uninformed. So I guess he can get away with it.

He probably does think we are all stupid. It’s not an unwarranted assumption, considering how borderline mentally disabled the vast unhinged are.

43 jaunte  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:47:57pm

We already have a part-time congress, Rick.

44 blueraven  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:47:59pm

Part time Congress, just like in TX. Wheee…

45 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:48:33pm

re: #41 ProLifeLiberal

I might be a Sooner, but I am also realistic. I thought we would lose.

you’re no Sooner

46 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:48:37pm

How is Perry going to make Congress part time?

Is he going to do a Julius Caesar on us?

47 Major Tom  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:49:10pm

Perry asked for a second look. It was sad.

48 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:49:16pm

NULLIFY!!

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:49:37pm

Hey! He put the plural in the right place.

Warms up my shriveled little Grammar Police heart.

Attorneys General.

50 Major Tom  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:49:46pm

1860!!!

51 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:49:53pm

Most important election since 1860!1!

52 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:49:54pm

re: #48 freetoken

NULLIFY!!

John C. Calhoun’s ghost just got its wings.

53 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:49:56pm

Crap—nullification. He wants to be Calhoun.

54 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:50:07pm

re: #49 EmmmieG

Hey! He put the plural in the right place.

Warms up my shriveled little Grammar Police heart.

Attorneys General.

I should mention I was watching the promo.

55 AlexRogan  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:50:15pm

re: #30 HappyWarrior

Lemme guess Romney’s ideal judge is a Scalia/Alito/Thomas clone.

IMO, Thomas is shit compared to even Alito or Scalia; at least they make sense sometimes.

56 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:50:21pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

John C. Calhoun’s ghost just got its wings.

2 freakn’ seconds.

57 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:50:22pm

re: #44 blueraven

Part time Congress, just like in TX. Wheee…

best job in the Western Hemisphere…you barely have to think and can make money

58 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:50:48pm

re: #48 freetoken

NULLIFY!!

You can’t possibly be serious. Which of these jokers said that?

59 blueraven  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:50:49pm

Suck up = Newt.

60 elizajane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:51:07pm

Saul Alinsky radicalism!

61 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:51:16pm

re: #5 albusteve

alternatively…there is the MSU/Wis game…a real barnburner

What network? OU/OSU is terrible.

62 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:51:21pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

2 freakn’ seconds.

Ha- classic word association.

63 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:51:27pm

re: #58 thedopefishlives

You can’t possibly be serious. Which of these jokers said that?

RP

64 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:51:29pm

Tax attorneys know how to grow the economy? Isn’t that bizarro-Republican thought?

65 AlexRogan  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:51:36pm

re: #48 freetoken

NULLIFY!!

re: #52 HappyWarrior

John C. Calhoun’s ghost just got its wings.

re: #53 Decatur Deb

Crap—nullification. He wants to be Calhoun.

Who? Perry? Surprise, surprise…

Edit: NM…apparently, it was Luap Nor, right? I’m at work, so I can’t watch it.

66 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:51:45pm

My respect for the Huntsman campaign grows…(again)

Tim Miller, a spokesman for Jon Huntsman’s presidential campaign, had this response when asked if his candidate would participate in the Dec. 27 Newsmax debate moderated by Donald Trump:

“Lol. We look forward to watching Mitt and Newt suck-up to The Donald with a big bowl of popcorn,”

he said in an email to Business Insider.

67 Charleston Chew  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:52:25pm

Just started watching this. Don’t quite understand the format. Is this the “What if the candidates were Max Hedroom? What would that look like?” Debate?

68 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:52:31pm

re: #55 talon_262

IMO, Thomas is shit compared to even Alito or Scalia; at least they make sense sometimes.

I know. But they’re far from ideal judges and the idea that they’re not “judicial activists” is nonsense.

69 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:52:42pm

re: #45 albusteve

Because I’m realistic? We lost to Tech and Baylor. We have had some very questionable tactics and plays, and we flubbed up a large amount.

Just because I am at OU doesn’t mean I shouldn’t allow logic into this.

70 jaunte  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:52:57pm

Santorum’s marriage is under attack.

71 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:52:59pm

re: #65 talon_262

Ron Paul wants to NULLIFY!

Newt thinks the civil war is about to be redone … his friends probably want to make sure the right side wins this time.

Bachmann is a tax lawyer, that means she can unify us.

This is the GOP in 2012.

72 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:53:26pm

re: #61 funky chicken

What network? OU/OSU is terrible.

Fox

73 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:53:40pm

re: #70 jaunte

Santorum’s marriage is under attack.

Is he a frothing mess about it?

74 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:53:52pm

Just checked back in (making food) whats the scoop?

75 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:53:54pm

re: #70 jaunte

Santorum’s marriage is under attack.

Did gays ruin Cain’s marriage?

76 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:53:54pm

re: #63 Decatur Deb

RP

DUMBASS. People think these idiots really have the best interests of the whole United States at heart?

77 jaunte  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:54:03pm

re: #73 wozzablog

He does seem anxious.

78 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:54:12pm

Santorum: America is sick from the inside, and I’m the cure.

79 albusteve  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:54:47pm

re: #69 ProLifeLiberal

Because I’m realistic? We lost to Tech and Baylor. We have had some very questionable tactics and plays, and we flubbed up a large amount.

Just because I am at OU doesn’t mean I shouldn’t allow logic into this.

it’s college football…you die with it, no excuses

80 AlexRogan  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:54:52pm

re: #71 freetoken

Ron Paul wants to NULLIFY!

Newt thinks the civil war is about to be redone … his friends probably want to make sure the right side wins this time.

Bachmann is a tax lawyer, that means she can unify us.

This is the GOP in 2012.

Saw that it was Paul after I posted, so I edited. Still, whether it’s Perry or Paul, the whole nullification schtick, while revolting, doesn’t surprise me coming from their pieholes.

81 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:54:55pm

re: #78 Charles

Santorum: America is sick from the inside, and I’m the cure.

If the cure is a laxative.

82 blueraven  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:55:00pm

re: #78 Charles

Santorum: America is sick from the inside, and I’m the cure.

Eewww…

83 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:55:07pm

re: #78 Charles

Santorum: America is sick from the inside, and I’m the cure.

Robert Smith is the only Cure.

84 Baboon Cheeks  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:55:28pm

re: #73 wozzablog

Is he frothing mess about it?

85 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:55:55pm

re: #65 talon_262

re: #52 HappyWarrior

re: #53 Decatur Deb

Who? Perry? Surprise, surprise…

Edit: NM…apparently, it was Luap Nor, right? I’m at work, so I can’t watch it.

Perry would have been my guess too. But ol Luap Nor makes sense too.

86 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:56:04pm

re: #74 Stanley Sea

Just checked back in (making food) whats the scoop?

A wild Ronpaul appeared!

Ronpaul used NULLIFY!

…It’s not very effective.

87 jaunte  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:56:55pm

Cuccinelli: “Nobody really bombed here.”

88 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:57:13pm

Well, I only caught the last segment (poor me, eh?)

But it looks like it was an orgy of wingnut call and response. I’m sure some anthropologist or ethnomusicologist will be able to trace the lineage of such outings back millennia, but as for me, I think I’ll stick to eating chocolate and being blissfully ignorant of the atavistic underbelly of America.

89 AlexRogan  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:58:33pm

re: #78 Charles

Santorum: America is sick from the inside, and I’m the cure.

Tell me he really didn’t say that….

90 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 6:59:34pm

America is frothing, and I’m the enema…

91 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:00:33pm

GOP Nominates Gen Eric Republican On First Ballot

declares “a contradictionary, illogical, fictitious agenda requires a contradictory, illogical, fictitious leader”

vows to institute federal program cracking down on all subversive communists who believe the government has the right to institute federal programs

“i won’t rest until small government has been instituted in every womb in this country, and every cell phone conversation has been monitored for subversive big-government terrorist activity”

Mandatory “Freedom From Big Government” Federal ID Cards To Prove Legal Citizenship And Non-Muslim Status To Be Required For All Plane Boarding, Voting, And Employment

92 Charleston Chew  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:00:59pm

This was what people in the 50s imagined a Presidential debate in 2011 would look like — all on video screens, with many of the candidates broadcasting from the moon or Mars or something.

93 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:01:12pm

re: #70 jaunte

Santorum’s marriage is under attack.

What his marriage might look like (totallly safe for work.)

94 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:01:23pm

Back to making dinner. this is pitiful!

95 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:01:50pm

re: #87 jaunte

Cuccinelli: “Nobody really bombed here.”

I am going to enjoy seeing him get his ass handed to him in 2013 when he finds out the rest of Virginia does not share his wacky views. Can be in the primary or general election. Preferably the latter since that means Virginians left, center, and right will get to tell Cooch to go to hell.

96 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:01:54pm

re: #92 Charleston Chew

This was what people in the 50s imagined a Presidential debate in 2011 would look like — all on video screens, with many of the candidates broadcasting from the moon or Mars or something.

Too few Tesla coils.

97 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:03:11pm

re: #51 JasonA

Most important election since 1860!1!

Gingrich, right? And he’s just the Godhead to make sure we restore our nation to greatness under his benevolent hand.

The man is … a megalomaniac.

98 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:04:12pm

re: #97 funky chicken

The man is … a megalomaniac.

Yes. Yes he is.

99 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:04:41pm

So, did I miss anything earth-shattering from the debate tonight? Anybody lose any teeth or wind up with a black eye?

100 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:05:37pm

re: #78 Charles

Santorum: America is sick from the inside, and I’m the cure.

Please tell me you made that up. LOL

101 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:05:41pm

re: #99 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, did I miss anything earth-shattering from the debate tonight? Anybody lose any teeth or wind up with a black eye?

Were they even allowed near each other?

102 Lidane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:08:37pm

re: #92 Charleston Chew

This was what people in the 50s imagined a Presidential debate in 2011 would look like — all on video screens, with many of the candidates broadcasting from the moon or Mars or something.

Ironic, since these jokers want to take us back to an idealized, Ozzie & Harriet version of the 1950’s where women and minorities knew their place and everything was about God, apple pie, and country.

103 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:10:04pm

re: #37 blueraven

Mitt must think we are all stupid.

But then again this is FNC, the station of the uninformed. So I guess he can get away with it.

“He never made the mistake of overestimating the intelligence of the American mob.”

H. L. Mencken, on FDR

104 Lidane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:11:09pm

re: #103 austin_blue

“He never made the mistake of overestimating the intelligence of the American mob.”

H. L. Mencken, on FDR

Speaking of which:

Newt Gingrich Leads Des Moines Register Poll, Ron Paul Second

ROFL

105 Lidane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:13:56pm

Speaking of the uneducated, the fact that no one corrected Rick Perry here is ridiculous, especially since these are supposed to be AG’s:

Rick Perry Fails Govt 101: Claims Executive Orders Can Repeal Laws Passed By Congress

WTF. Why didn’t anyone call him out on this?

106 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:14:08pm

Enough. ‘Nite, all.

107 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:15:12pm

With a message like “America is sick from the inside,” I can’t understand why Rick Santorum isn’t the frontrunner.

108 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:15:21pm

Approximately 1% of the population watches Fox News, including just the semi-regular/occasional viewer. If those 6 candidates think targeting their audience to that 1%, which let’s say are representative of a larger share of the actual electorate, is a way to win in a nation where 100,000,000 votes for President will be cast… then those candidates truly are delusional.

Yeah, most of those 100 million voters aren’t paying attention today, but once they actual do tune in, what does the GOP expect them to see? Mitt is the prettiest (visually) out of the bunch, but he’s very wealthy, from a wealthy family, and comes off like a slimy used car salesman. Newt and Paul come off as old codgers fighting the war before the last one. Bachmann is just out there with the Stepford Wife look, and Santorum looks reasonable but he’s not a known name and his need to talk religion will turn people off (even religious people who aren’t wingnuts.)


And as for Perry? I wonder what the people of TX think when they see him like he was during the brief 1.5 minute response tonight? Rambling like he’s half drunk, what can one say?

In my lifetime this has to be the low point of the GOP.

I suspect part of the problem is that the really capable people who are self declared as Republican simply know better than to get involved in this Presidential race, and go about their business in other fields. I was convinced from the start, and it’s been reinforced, that the only reason Huntsman entered the campaign this year was to build name recognition and experience in running a national campaign. I expect his real goal is 2016, and that he’ll be joined then by a few other less-nutty-than-today’s-candidates in that race.

109 Kragar  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:16:42pm

re: #107 Charles

With a message like “America is sick from the inside,” I can’t understand why Rick Santorum isn’t the frontrunner.

Its a puzzler.

110 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:18:14pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its a puzzler.

What I wonder is why he’s still even in the race.

111 Mattand  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:18:55pm

re: #78 Charles

Santorum: America is sick from the inside, and I’m the cure.

When I read this, I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger saying it. Makes more sense that way.

112 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:18:55pm

re: #110 wheatdogg

What I wonder is why he’s still even in the race.

Probabbly has a book in the works.

113 Lidane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:19:27pm

re: #108 freetoken

I was convinced from the start, and it’s been reinforced, that the only reason Huntsman entered the campaign this year was to build name recognition and experience in running a national campaign. I expect his real goal is 2016, and that he’ll be joined then by a few other less-nutty-than-today’s-candidates in that race.

Hopefully by then Huntsman will have some less than nutty economic ideas. His endorsement of the Ryan plan was unbelievable fail.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:19:27pm

re: #35 jaunte

And Bachmann thinks the EPA is taking over private businesses.

Bachmann thinks RVs are dragons and looks behind the television because she can’t understand how you can fit so many minstrels inside

115 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:20:09pm

re: #112 HappyWarrior

Probabbly has a book in the works.

Fetus in a shoe box.

116 Kragar  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:20:18pm

re: #111 mattand

When I read this, I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger saying it. Makes more sense that way.

Or Christopher Walken.

“America is sick, and the only cure…is more cowbell.”

117 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:20:19pm

No doubt. Same with Herman “Raising” Cain, or his wife, or both.

118 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:20:31pm

re: #111 mattand

When I read this, I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger saying it. Makes more sense that way.

It’s not a tumor!

119 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:20:48pm

re: #107 Charles

With a message like “America is sick from the inside,” I can’t understand why Rick Santorum isn’t the frontrunner.

Translates as the “Heartland is Fucked”. Not a good message for a Republican.

120 Mattand  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:20:56pm

re: #116 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or Christopher Walken.

“America is sick, and the only cure…is more cowbell.”

Quick! Call the Continental!

121 AlexRogan  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:23:51pm

re: #118 goddamnedfrank

It’s not a tumor!

Get to da choppa!!!!

122 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:24:48pm

re: #107 Charles

With a message like “America is sick from the inside,” I can’t understand why Rick Santorum isn’t the frontrunner.

Is that anything like Jimmy Carter’s malaise?

123 Kragar  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:24:55pm

re: #121 talon_262

Get to da choppa!!!

Welcome to da pahty Richtuh!

124 Mattand  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:25:08pm

re: #108 freetoken

I suspect part of the problem is that the really capable people who are self declared as Republican simply know better than to get involved in this Presidential race, and go about their business in other fields. I was convinced from the start, and it’s been reinforced, that the only reason Huntsman entered the campaign this year was to build name recognition and experience in running a national campaign. I expect his real goal is 2016, and that he’ll be joined then by a few other less-nutty-than-today’s-candidates in that race.

I suspect that our esteemed Gov. Christie is working from a similar playbook. I’m not a fan by any stretch, but compared to the current freak show he comes of as a Haight Ashbury hippie.

125 Mattand  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:26:57pm

re: #113 Lidane

Hopefully by then Huntsman will have some less than nutty economic ideas. His endorsement of the Ryan plan was unbelievable fail.

Isn’t Huntsman in the “no abortions for any reason” mob?

126 justaminute  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:29:27pm

I’m not sure how they got this impression but most of the TP is convinced President Obama can’t debate without his teleprompter and is mentally slow. Those that support Gingrich are convinced he will obliterate the President in the debates. Even Andrew Sullivan commented to this and I loved this quote of his:

It’s not just that Obama is a smart person whereas Gingrich is simply a dumb person’s idea of a smart person. – Andrew Sullivan

127 Kragar  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:29:56pm

re: #125 mattand

Isn’t Huntsman in the “no abortions for any reason” mob?

I know he’s for repealing Roe vs Wade.

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:30:20pm

I’m pretty sure that a lot of possible candidates are waiting until the Tea Party loses power and influence.

129 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:31:51pm

re: #128 EmmmieG

I’m pretty sure that a lot of possible candidates are waiting until the Tea Party loses power and influence.

Where were they before the Tea Party came along?

130 Lidane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:33:20pm

re: #125 mattand

Isn’t Huntsman in the “no abortions for any reason” mob?

Yeah, but I don’t think he’s going to be endorsing any personhood amendments anytime soon. At least I hope not. I want to like the guy, but if he goes there, then forget it.

Quite frankly, the bad economic ideas are a bigger problem.

131 Lidane  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:33:45pm

re: #129 thedopefishlives

Where were they before the Tea Party came along?

Being marginalized as RINOs by the people who are now the Tea Party.

132 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:34:33pm

re: #129 thedopefishlives

Where were they before the Tea Party came along?

Take, for example, Chris Christie. He was in New Jersey, I imagine. He just doesn’t want to have to contort to win Tea Party favor.

I know exactly one die hard TP’er.

We had a very brief discussion once about child abuse. Once I realized that she did not EVER think the state should take a child away, no matter what, the discussion ended.

How do you reason with a person who thinks that meth addicts and abusers have an indefinite right to custody of a child?

She was that way on a lot of things.

133 Mattand  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:36:22pm

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know he’s for repealing Roe vs Wade.

I’m probably wrong but I’m going to attribute this quote to Rachel Maddow:

“Government so small it can fit in your uterus.”

134 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:40:02pm

re: #132 EmmmieG

Take, for example, Chris Christie. He was in New Jersey, I imagine. He just doesn’t want to have to contort to win Tea Party favor.

I know exactly one die hard TP’er.

We had a very brief discussion once about child abuse. Once I realized that she did not EVER think the state should take a child away, no matter what, the discussion ended.

How do you reason with a person who thinks that meth addicts and abusers have an indefinite right to custody of a child?

She was that way on a lot of things.

It’s the government is always bad belief. It’s the same belief that caused Herman Cain to unknowingly give a pro-choice position on abortion when asked. When anything is better then government involvement, absurdity ensues.

135 Kragar  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:41:15pm

Ron Paul Rejects Donald Trump-Moderated Debate

The exchanged started earlier today when Paul joined fellow presidential hopeful Jon Huntsman in bowing out of a Trump-moderated presidential debate sponsored by conservative website Newsmax.com and planned for Dec. 27 in Des Moines, Iowa.

Paul’s campaign chairman, Jesse Benton, distributed a scathing press release saying that Trump’s participation “is beneath the office of the Presidency and flies in the face of that office’s history and dignity.”

“Mr. Trump’s participation as moderator will distract from questions and answers concerning important issues such as the national economy, crushing federal government debt, the role of the federal government, foreign policy, and the like,” Benton said.

Benton called the choice of Trump as a moderator “wildly inappropriate” and said his presence at the debate will “contribute to an unwanted circus-like atmosphere.”

“Therefore, our candidate Ron Paul, the champion of the Constitution, has advised he will not attend,” Benton concluded.

Trump did not take the rejection well.

136 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:42:58pm

re: #126 justaminute

I’m not sure how they got this impression but most of the TP is convinced President Obama can’t debate without his teleprompter and is mentally slow. Those that support Gingrich are convinced he will obliterate the President in the debates. Even Andrew Sullivan commented to this and I loved this quote of his:

It’s not just that Obama is a smart person whereas Gingrich is simply a dumb person’s idea of a smart person. – Andrew Sullivan

The modern GOP really does live in an alternate universe. Obama took on the entire Republican caucus on live television for nearly two hours without a teleprompter back in 2009. He debated the entire GOP caucus and won, he could probably handle just one of those fools easily.

137 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:44:26pm

re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ron Paul Rejects Donald Trump-Moderated Debate

Will Willard “My first name is Mitt” Mitt Romney be in attendance?

138 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:46:35pm

re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Paul’s campaign chairman, Jesse Benton, distributed a scathing press release saying that Trump’s participation “is beneath the office of the Presidency and flies in the face of that office’s history and dignity.”

Yet he’s been in debates moderated by Wolf Blitzer…

139 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:46:53pm

re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Benton called the choice of Trump as a moderator “wildly inappropriate” and said his presence at the debate will “contribute to an unwanted circus-like atmosphere.

What? You mean, the GOP debates are not supposed to be circus like?

140 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:47:01pm

re: #138 JasonA

Yet he’s been in debates moderated by Wolf Blitzer…

He’s taken questions from Jim Cramer…

141 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:47:56pm

Oh, catfight!

In a statement to ABC News, Trump called Paul “a clown-like candidate” who has “inconsequential poll numbers or a chance of winning.”

Trump went on to plug his book and questioned how Ron Paul would fare in the world of big business.

Trump’s reply prompted another statement from the Paul campaign.

In it Benton suggested that if Trump wanted to be taken seriously by Republicans, he needs to quit the reality show “Celebrity Apprentice” in which he stars.

“If he gets his act together, President Paul might consider getting his advice on fixing our country’s financial situation,” writes Benton in an email to ABC station KTRK-TV in Houston. “We understand Donald has a lot of experience with bankruptcy.”

142 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:48:53pm

re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“Therefore, our candidate Ron Paul, the champion of the Constitution, has advised he will not attend.”

Wow, he just keeps adding titles to himself, doesn’t he. The Only Man Who Can Save America, now the Champion of the Constitution. What’s next?

/Dear God, please don’t let it be President of the United States

143 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:49:31pm

re: #141 moderatelyradicalliberal

Wait just a second. President Paul? He’s pretty presumptuous.

144 justaminute  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:49:43pm

re: #136 moderatelyradicalliberal

The modern GOP really does live in an alternate universe. Obama took on the entire Republican caucus on live television for nearly two hours without a teleprompter back in 2009. He debated the entire GOP caucus and won, he could probably handle just one of those fools easily.

They are excellent in denying reality. I live in OK and I am having such fun right now. When I mention their stable of candidates you can see them physically shrink. They cannot believe they are in this situation. Frankly almost all my customers are Republicans and they are conceding the election to Obama. Most of them say that if someone else doesn’t come on the scene they are not even voting.

145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:49:55pm

re: #142 thedopefishlives

Wow, he just keeps adding titles to himself, doesn’t he. The Only Man Who Can Save America, now the Champion of the Constitution. What’s next?

/Dear God, please don’t let it be President of the United States

Exalted Man-Christ Ron Paul will Rescue The Constitution from The Menace of Black People

146 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:52:10pm

re: #144 justaminute

They are excellent in denying reality. I live in OK and I am having such fun right now. When I mention their stable of candidates you can see them physically shrink. They cannot believe they are in this situation. Frankly almost all my customers are Republicans are they are conceding the election to Obama. Most of them say that if someone else doesn’t come on the scene they are not even voting.

Yes, but do they understand it’s a problem of their own making? Garbage in, garbage out.

147 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:52:23pm

re: #141 moderatelyradicalliberal

“inconsequential” - Paul is running second in Iowa at the moment.

148 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:52:29pm

re: #113 Lidane

re: #132 EmmmieG

Ryan, Christie… these are some of the names I suspect we’ll hear quite a bit after Nov 2012. Huntsman didn’t have as wide name recognition, so he had to start this year building familiarity with his name.

Poor Mitt… he was just a few years too early. If he had held off this year and instead taken a reasonable job and slowly built up a following then he could have been part of the 2016 class, one of whom will likely to be President in 2017.

149 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:53:41pm

re: #143 thedopefishlives

Wait just a second. President Paul? He’s pretty presumptuous.

Yeah, I saw that. LOL!

150 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:53:47pm

re: #141 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh, catfight!

oh my god. We’ve lost it.

fucking ratings! MONEY. Thats what it all is about. How many unpaid interns are involved? Prob all the fucking staff.

I’m sick.

151 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:54:24pm

re: #143 thedopefishlives

Wait just a second. President Paul? He’s pretty presumptuous.

Tongue firmly in cheek - the “trump has a lot of experience with bankruptcy” gives the tone ;-P

152 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:55:14pm

re: #148 freetoken

re: #132 EmmmieG

Ryan, Christie… these are some of the names I suspect we’ll hear quite a bit after Nov 2012. Huntsman didn’t have as wide name recognition, so he had to start this year building familiarity with his name.

Poor Mitt… he was just a few years too early. If he had held off this year and instead taken a reasonable job and slowly built up a following then he could have been part of the 2016 class, one of whom will likely to be President in 2017.

Agreed, Mitt has a better chance against someone who is ill defined - a sitting -resident is not ill defined.

153 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:55:31pm

re: #150 Stanley Sea

oh my god. We’ve lost it.

fucking ratings! MONEY. Thats what it all is about. How many unpaid interns are involved? Prob all the fucking staff.

I’m sick.

My parents have always been politically active so I’ve been watching campaigns since I was a child, but I often wonder what someone who’s young and just now paying attention to politics must be thinking.

154 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:56:17pm

Unless there really is a national tragedy or scandal that can be tied to Obama, I really can’t see Barack Obama losing to any of those clowns we saw tonight.

I think it doesn’t even matter anymore that the Democratic “base” isn’t so thrilled with Obama. The not-a-circus circus that the GOP has become (on the national level) is really out of touch with a lot of people in this country. Appealing to millionaires and the theocratic-wanna-be-rich demographic just isn’t a broad appeal.

155 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:56:29pm

re: #148 freetoken

re: #132 EmmmieG

Ryan, Christie… these are some of the names I suspect we’ll hear quite a bit after Nov 2012. Huntsman didn’t have as wide name recognition, so he had to start this year building familiarity with his name.

Poor Mitt… he was just a few years too early. If he had held off this year and instead taken a reasonable job and slowly built up a following then he could have been part of the 2016 class, one of whom will likely to be President in 2017.

And he might not have had to turn himself into crazy rightwing man to do it. But he put himself on that path back in 2006, or perhaps even 2005 when he began courting the SoCons over at National Review.

156 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:57:06pm

re: #153 moderatelyradicalliberal

My parents have always been politically active so I’ve been watching campaigns since I was a child, but I often wonder what someone who’s young and just now paying attention to politics must be thinking.

This, hopefully.

157 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:58:33pm

Mitt’s problem is he wants to be president so bad that if it means rejecting everything he stood for to get a chance, he’ll do it. If he needed to be on the left, he’d do it. Guy has no principles.

158 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:58:52pm

re: #154 freetoken

Unless there really is a national tragedy or scandal that can be tied to Obama, I really can’t see Barack Obama losing to any of those clowns we saw tonight.

I think it doesn’t even matter anymore that the Democratic “base” isn’t so thrilled with Obama. The not-a-circus circus that the GOP has become (on the national level) is really out of touch with a lot of people in this country. Appealing to millionaires and the theocratic-wanna-be-rich demographic just isn’t a broad appeal.

Maybe, but hating the tyrannical dictator who lords over you like a king while the country is gripped in poverty and turmoil has a very broad appeal. And sure, only the 1% of people who are Conservative cultists believe all of the dogma. But a lot of people believe some of it.

159 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 7:59:06pm

re: #152 wozzablog

Agreed, Mitt has a better chance against someone who is ill defined - a siting -resident is not ill defined.

I think Mitt Romney’s problem is that he is defined. I actually understand why Republicans don’t like him. There isn’t much too like. It’s clear he thinks he’s awesome, but most people see that he’s dishonest, untrustworthy and an amoral, rich, entitled prick with no beliefs aside from the belief that he should be president. He’s a complete phony and it’s too late for him to be anything else.

160 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:00:04pm

re: #154 freetoken

Unless there really is a national tragedy or scandal that can be tied to Obama, I really can’t see Barack Obama losing to any of those clowns we saw tonight.

I think it doesn’t even matter anymore that the Democratic “base” isn’t so thrilled with Obama. The not-a-circus circus that the GOP has become (on the national level) is really out of touch with a lot of people in this country. Appealing to millionaires and the theocratic-wanna-be-rich demographic just isn’t a broad appeal.

Better belive that if Gingrich is the GOP candidate *all* the good will left towards Bill Clinton comes out for Obama. The base (over the age of 30) gets fired up double quick.

161 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:00:54pm

re: #156 wozzablog

This, hopefully.

LOL! Oh Bert, the most uptight and irritable muppet of the all.

162 thedopefishlives  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:01:21pm

re: #158 Renaissance_Man

Maybe, but hating the tyrannical dictator who lords over you like a king while the country is gripped in poverty and turmoil has a very broad appeal. And sure, only the 1% of people who are Conservative cultists believe all of the dogma. But a lot of people believe some of it.

While that is true, the economy is recovering and Obama does have some rather big war-on-terror feathers in his cap to go along with it. If he can keep Congress from completely tanking the situation before next November, I think he’ll hold his office by a healthy margin.

163 EdDantes  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:01:32pm

re: #159 moderatelyradicalliberal

Now, tell us what you really think.

164 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:02:52pm

re: #160 wozzablog

I really doubt Newt will win the nomination. His role in this circus is to keep the attendance up so the gate receipts will be high enough to pay the overhead.

165 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:02:52pm

re: #159 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think Mitt Romney’s problem is that he is defined. I actually understand why Republicans don’t like him. There isn’t much too like. It’s clear he thinks he’s awesome, but most people see that he’s dishonest, untrustworthy and an amoral, rich, entitled prick with no beliefs aside from the belief that he should be president. He’s a complete phony and it’s too late for him to be anything else.

That’s pretty much it. Hard to get more unlikable than Mitt. He’s got a certain arrogance to him. And for a party eager to define Obama as arrogant and snobby, Mitt really is that.

166 justaminute  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:03:30pm

re: #146 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yes, but do they understand it’s a problem of their own making? Garbage in, garbage out.

No. But I can’t get really in depth with them at the restaurant. Politics is not good for business. But I did have to work the other night and I will talk about it to our long time customers but you can’t get to end depth.

But American Airlines is getting ready to lay off people in Tulsa. And that is a good lead in as well as OK has hit the top number of food stamp customers. It make an excellent starting off point.

167 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:04:24pm

re: #159 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think Mitt Romney’s problem is that he is defined. I actually understand why Republicans don’t like him. There isn’t much too like. It’s clear he thinks he’s awesome, but most people see that he’s dishonest, untrustworthy and an amoral, rich, entitled prick with no beliefs aside from the belief that he should be president. He’s a complete phony and it’s too late for him to be anything else.

Yeah, which is why having a defined opponent is a bad thing - claritative distinctions can be made. If the Dems make a God awful pick in ‘16, Mitt could be the guy.

168 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:04:37pm

re: #154 freetoken

Unless there really is a national tragedy or scandal that can be tied to Obama, I really can’t see Barack Obama losing to any of those clowns we saw tonight.

I think it doesn’t even matter anymore that the Democratic “base” isn’t so thrilled with Obama. The not-a-circus circus that the GOP has become (on the national level) is really out of touch with a lot of people in this country. Appealing to millionaires and the theocratic-wanna-be-rich demographic just isn’t a broad appeal.

Missed the whole thing. How was the Newty?

169 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:05:31pm

re: #164 freetoken

I really doubt Newt will win the nomination. His role in this circus is to keep the attendance up so the gate receipts will be high enough to pay the overhead.

Then we are back to Mitt.

Who’s atleast competent - the highest complement you can pay in this race it seems.

170 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:05:37pm

re: #163 EdDantes

Now, tell us what you really think.

The only reason Willard is the most “presidential” is his looks. If he were over weight and bald, but had the same background and personality, he’d be a joke polling in the single digits. Nobody likes him, but there are few guys in the MSM with man-crushes that keep pushing him.

171 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:06:15pm

re: #168 Stanley Sea

Missed the whole thing. How was the Newty?

Half-baked.

(Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

172 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:07:52pm

re: #166 justaminute

No. But I can’t get really in depth with them at the restaurant. Politics is not good for business. But I did have to work the other night and I will talk about it to our long time customers but you can’t get to end depth.

But American Airlines is getting ready to lay off people in Tulsa. And that is a good lead in as well as OK has hit the top number of food stamp customers. It make an excellent starting off point.

I understand that. It’s just kinds funny. They know there’s a problem, but they seem truly oblivious to the cause.

173 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:08:16pm

re: #170 moderatelyradicalliberal

The only reason Willard is the most “presidential” is his looks. If he were over weight and bald, but had the same background and personality, he’d be a joke polling in the single digits. Nobody likes him, but there are few guys in the MSM with man-crushes that keep pushing him.

In a sane party Huntsman would be a contender.

174 sagehen  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:08:28pm

re: #136 moderatelyradicalliberal

The modern GOP really does live in an alternate universe. Obama took on the entire Republican caucus on live television for nearly two hours without a teleprompter back in 2009. He debated the entire GOP caucus and won, he could probably handle just one of those fools easily.

yes, but Fox viewers didn’t see that — they cut away 10 minutes in (as soon as it became clear who was mopping the floor with whom).

175 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:09:36pm

re: #169 wozzablog

Then we are back to Mitt.

Who’s atleast competent - the highest complement you can pay in this race it seems.

Except for when he’s giving interviews. Did you see the FOX news debacle? He couldn’t handle an interview on FOX of all places. No wonder he avoids them.

176 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:09:39pm

re: #173 JasonA

In a sane party Huntsman would be a contender.

In a sane party, half the current candidates wouldn’t be running.

177 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:09:45pm

In all honesty, if Huntsman and Romney weren’t in the race, would another sane contender emerge just to try to salvage the party?

Or would it be chuckles and grins all the way down?

178 EdDantes  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:10:51pm

re: #173 JasonA

In a sane party Huntsman would be a contender.

Der Jagermeister does not conform to the Republican purity act of 1516.

179 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:10:56pm

re: #173 JasonA

In a sane party Huntsman would be a contender.

He was the only one I had any worries about. Turns out the GOP is too crazy to nominate anybody that’s worth a damn.

180 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:11:13pm

re: #177 EmmmieG

In all honesty, if Huntsman and Romney weren’t in the race, would another sane contender emerge just to try to salvage the party?

Or would it be chuckles and grins all the way down?

Salvage the party? No. But they might see an opportunity for themselves. Maybe Christie would jump in. On the other hand, TPaw probably would’ve been able to stay in.

181 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:11:44pm

re: #170 moderatelyradicalliberal

The only reason Willard is the most “presidential” is his looks. If he were over weight and bald, but had the same background and personality, he’d be a joke polling in the single digits. Nobody likes him, but there are few guys in the MSM with man-crushes that keep pushing him.

He’s got enough money and remaining cache from being a State Gvernor to keep himself hanging around on merit.

They aren’t great merits - but:
* he knows china is nuclear,
*knows what Libya is,
*hasn’t ruled out Muslims in cabinet,
* hasn’t cheated on two dying wives and then claimed disclosure of Tiffany credit as being “worst month in life”
* hasn’t developed a glassy stare
* hasn’t fallen about drunk in New Hampshire
* hasn’t said vaccines cause retardation

In this field what recommends a candidate is entirely relative.

182 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:12:03pm

re: #179 moderatelyradicalliberal

He was the only one I had any worries about. Turns out the GOP is too crazy to nominate anybody that’s worth a damn.

I really dislike a lot of his ideas, but I’m also of the opinion that he’s Presidential material.

183 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:13:47pm

re: #175 moderatelyradicalliberal

Except for when he’s giving interviews. Did you see the FOX news debacle? He couldn’t handle an interview on FOX of all places. No wonder he avoids them.

He was pissed off - Newt (who’s flip flopped as often) was being given a handjob by Hannity the same evening but Mitt was being torn a new one by Brett Baier, ZERO softballs to a GOP candidate in an FNC interview is a new record.

He finally twigged who the Murdoch candidate was - and it wasn’t him.

184 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:15:03pm

If Mitt loses here. I think he’s done in 2016. He’ll have the image of a twice run, twice failed. Plus he’ll be the same age as Reagan was when he was first elected 69. GOP needs new blood and frankly new idas too(tax cuts, gays/secularism bad Christian good, blah blah isn’t going to cut it forever). Huntsman is the only one close to being under 50.

185 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:16:09pm

re: #184 HappyWarrior

If Mitt loses here. I think he’s done in 2016. He’ll have the image of a twice run, twice failed. Plus he’ll be the same age as Reagan was when he was first elected 69. GOP needs new blood. Huntsman is the only one close to being under 50.

If Huntsman can steer clear of the base and do the minimum to achieve name recognition without going full on whackjob he’ll be a decent shout in’16.

186 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:16:12pm

re: #183 wozzablog

He was pissed off - Newt (who’s flip flopped as often) was being given a handjob by Hannity the same evening but Mitt was being torn a new one by Brett Baier, ZERO softballs to a GOP candidate in an FNC interview is a new record.

He finally twigged who the Murdoch candidate was - and it wasn’t him.

I figured that too. FOX is going to do their best to keep Newt in the race at least until the Florida primary. He lost it because they’re just not into him and now he knows it for sure.

187 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:16:44pm

re: #160 wozzablog

Better belive that if Gingrich is the GOP candidate *all* the good will left towards Bill Clinton comes out for Obama. The base (over the age of 30) gets fired up double quick.

Obama/WJC 2012. Biden probably would be willing to retire. LOL.

I don’t think there’s any amendment preventing a former president from serving as vice president, is there? LOL

188 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:17:18pm

re: #183 wozzablog

Murdoch’s candidate? That would be Obama.

Without an enemy, Fox News would have much less to work with.

Plus, the rest of the News Corp empire works best with the status quo.

189 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:17:40pm

re: #183 wozzablog

He was pissed off - Newt (who’s flip flopped as often) was being given a handjob by Hannity the same evening but Mitt was being torn a new one by Brett Baier, ZERO softballs to a GOP candidate in an FNC interview is a new record.

He finally twigged who the Murdoch candidate was - and it wasn’t him.

+1

190 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:18:18pm

re: #185 wozzablog

If Huntsman can steer clear of the base and do the minimum t achieve name recognition without going full on whackjob he’ll be a decent shout in’16.

He’s got a good future. It’s telling about the GOP electorate that he’s got no shot and people like Bachmann and Cain did. Dude has a good domestic and international resume. I don’t agree with his positions on everything but Jon Huntsman would be a far better candidate/president than those two. He actually understands government.

191 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:18:34pm

re: #169 wozzablog

Then we are back to Mitt.

Who’s atleast competent - the highest complement you can pay in this race it seems.

Yes great. He is not crazy. Just a lying, opportunistic sack of shit who would sell his own mother for a chance to be President. Its a heck of an endorsement.

192 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:20:20pm

The words “President Gingrich” make me throw up in my mouth a little.

193 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:20:50pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

John C. Calhoun’s ghost just got its wings.

That’s fine. just as long as the person who actually wins the 2012 election (it won’t be Perry) gets to hang Perry “as high as Haman”.

194 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:21:27pm

re: #192 JasonA

The words “President Gingrich” make me throw up in my mouth a little.

I’m sure people thought the same in 1994 when Speaker Gingrich became a reality. But yeah I can’t really imagine any of these guys outside Huntsman and Romney being even decent presidents.

195 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:21:58pm

re: #191 Petero1818

Yes great. He is not crazy. Just a lying, opportunistic sack of shit who would sell his own mother for a chance to be President. Its a heck of an endorsement.

Those things you listed are his competencies. That’s why he excelled at vulture capitalism.

196 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:22:03pm

re: #191 Petero1818

Yes great. He is not crazy. Just a lying, opportunistic sack of shit who would sell his own mother for a chance to be President. Its a heck of an endorsement.

My shrugging has reached Gallic proportions.

Best of a bad lot in the top tier.

Romney isn’t Gingrich - who I have decided is Evil and Paul who I think is unhinged.

Not evil and not crazy, enough to get most people pretty far, but not enough to get someone to the top of the GOP ticket at the moment.

197 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:22:31pm

re: #188 freetoken

Murdoch’s candidate? That would be Obama.

Without an enemy, Fox News would have much less to work with.

Plus, the rest of the News Corp empire works best with the status quo.

Ayep. At this point, a lot of it boils down to something I’ve heard more than one wingnut declare: They’d rather have another 4 years of Obama than spend 4 years defending Romney.

198 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:23:35pm

re: #164 freetoken

I really doubt Newt will win the nomination. His role in this circus is to keep the attendance up so the gate receipts will be high enough to pay the overhead.

I dunno. Hannity’s been fluffing him since about forever on the radio and on his TV show. I think the base is possibly crazy enough to nominate him.

As revolting as I find Gingrich, he’s got a lot of fans over at hotair and other conservative sites. They think he’s brilliant. And he begged for forgiveness from James Dobson, so his marital issues don’t matter to them any more.

199 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:23:50pm

re: #197 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ayep. At this point, a lot of it boils down to something I’ve heard more than one wingnut declare: They’d rather have another 4 years of Obama than spend 4 years defending Romney.

If Willard wasn’t a robot, I think his feelings would be hurt by now.

200 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:24:25pm

re: #197 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ayep. At this point, a lot of it boils down to something I’ve heard more than one wingnut declare: They’d rather have another 4 years of Obama than spend 4 years defending Romney.

Image: tumblr_llbdevfUQm1qzuq54o1_500.png

201 freetoken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:25:14pm

re: #197 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Murdoch is no wingnut, though. He is one of the, and is probably the, most successful businessman in the media business. His entire history has shown that he cares about money. It also shows that he learned well from his predecessors who realized that the masses can be led to buy just about anything. Murdoch discovered that yellow journalism can be profitable, unlike hard journalism which tends to be a money hole.

202 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:25:20pm

re: #199 moderatelyradicalliberal

If Willard wasn’t a robot, I think his feelings would be hurt by now.

That hurts where I should have feelings…

(Jon Stewart’s ripped that one merilessly)

203 Four More Tears  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:25:20pm

I could see Gingrich scoring points in the early primaries, which is scary since those are the most rewarding ones.

204 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:25:24pm

re: #197 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ayep. At this point, a lot of it boils down to something I’ve heard more than one wingnut declare: They’d rather have another 4 years of Obama than spend 4 years defending Romney.

That’s probably Limbaugh’s construct too. He doesn’t want to spend the next four years defending Romney and he knows he gets more listeners telling his moron fans that Obama’s killing Christians in Uganda.

205 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:29:07pm

re: #176 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

In a sane party, half the current candidates wouldn’t be running.

I’m trying to remember a line up of Democrats in recent history that was so utterly rotten from top to bottom - and I can’t.

I just can’t.

206 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:29:38pm

re: #198 funky chicken

I dunno. Hannity’s been fluffing him since about forever on the radio and on his TV show. I think the base is possibly crazy enough to nominate him.

As revolting as I find Gingrich, he’s got a lot of fans over at hotair and other conservative sites. They think he’s brilliant. And he begged for forgiveness from James Dobson, so his marital issues don’t matter to them any more.

Those are the men. Bros Before Hos and all that. If Newt is the nominee, the GOP will lose the women’s vote by 15-20 points. Evangelical women all over America will do what they did in Mississippi a few weeks ago with the “personhood” law. Say one thing to pollsters when their husbands are around and vote the opposite in the privacy of the voting booth. They will not warm to Newt. Or the botoxed, blond homewrecker he’s married to. She’ll be the most unhelpful, unliked potential first lady in history.

207 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:29:41pm

re: #188 freetoken

Murdoch’s candidate? That would be Obama.

Without an enemy, Fox News would have much less to work with.

Plus, the rest of the News Corp empire works best with the status quo.

That’s often true for news media that (nominally) supports a given side: They media outlets are much more powerful within their movement when that movement is in the opposition. When their movement holds power, the news outlet has to face the rather dreary task of actually supporting things getting done, which is always harder and often makes far more enemies than simply viewing with alarm.

208 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:30:42pm

re: #204 HappyWarrior

That’s probably Limbaugh’s construct too. He doesn’t want to spend the next four years defending Romney and he knows he gets more listeners telling his moron fans that Obama’s killing Christians in Uganda.

The base wasn’t all that into MCcain, immediately after he lost a lot of the right wing media figures said they were glad they didn’t have to defend him anymore.
Dude had a healthcare plan, believed in climate change (etc).

209 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:31:27pm

re: #206 moderatelyradicalliberal

Agreed, but he could still be the GOP nominee. Which nauseates me.

210 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:31:55pm

re: #203 JasonA

I could see Gingrich scoring points in the early primaries, which is scary since those are the most rewarding ones.

I think Florida is the state to watch. Newt’s ahead right now.

211 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:32:13pm

re: #208 wozzablog

The base wasn’t all that into MCcain, immediately after he lost a lot of the right wing media figures said they were glad they didn’t have to defend him anymore.
Dude had a healthcare plan, believed in climate change (etc).

Yep. They hated him for being a realist on immigration too which was the big factor behind Hayworth primarying him and why Arpaio hates him.

212 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:32:53pm

re: #201 freetoken

Murdoch is no wingnut, though. He is one of the, and is probably the, most successful businessman in the media business. His entire history has shown that he cares about money. It also shows that he learned well from his predecessors who realized that the masses can be led to buy just about anything. Murdoch discovered that yellow journalism can be profitable, unlike hard journalism which tends to be a money hole.

Murdoch abides by the rule of journalism that goes “Give the people what they want.” And what “the people,” in this case the wingnut base, want it anybody but Romney. So promoting anybody but Romney, even if it means steering things pro-Obama to a degree, is what they’ll do. Fox News would rather spend the next 4 years continuing to demonize Obama than 5 years (including the primaries/general election) defending Romney.

213 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:33:28pm

so this is how the field shapes up.

Bachman- really crazy, homophobic, bible thumper
Santorum - crazy, bible thumper
Huntsman - smart, centrist, but weak. A VP maybe. Not a President in my view
Gingrich -narcissistic asshole and morally bankrupt
Perry - crazy, bible thumper with little grasp of reality
Romney - opportunistic and morally bankrupt, moderate at heart, but will sell his soul to the highest bidder
Paul - Crazy, smart, crazy, possibly senile, did I mention crazy?

How bad does the economy have to be for Obama to lose to someone in this lot?

214 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:33:39pm

re: #210 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think Florida is the state to watch. Newt’s ahead right now.

The real interesting thing for me is how Newt has cut in to Mitt’s lead in NH. Can remember earlier in the fall when Mitt looked like NH was going to be but a formality.

215 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:33:44pm

re: #206 moderatelyradicalliberal

Those are the men. Bros Before Hos and all that. If Newt is the nominee, the GOP will lose the women’s vote by 15-20 points. Evangelical women all over America will do what they did in Mississippi a few weeks ago with the “personhood” law. Say one thing to pollsters when their husbands are around and vote the opposite in the privacy of the voting booth. They will not warm to Newt. Or the botoxed, blond homewrecker he’s married to. She’ll be the most unhelpful, unliked potential first lady in history.

You don’t think that America needs a First Automaton?

216 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:34:11pm

re: #210 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think Florida is the state to watch. Newt’s ahead right now.

Nobody remind him that he has to go campaign there to seal the deal. AKA the Rudy juxtaposition.

217 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:36:22pm

re: #213 Petero1818

so this is how the field shapes up.

Bachman- really crazy, homophobic, bible thumper
Santorum - crazy, bible thumper
Huntsman - smart, centrist, but weak. A VP maybe. Not a President in my view
Gingrich -narcissistic asshole and morally bankrupt
Perry - crazy, bible thumper with little grasp of reality
Romney - opportunistic and morally bankrupt, moderate at heart, but will sell his soul to the highest bidder
Paul - Crazy, smart, crazy, possibly senile, did I mention crazy?

How bad does the economy have to be for Obama to lose to someone in this lot?

Really, the candidate field boils down to Gingrich & Romney. Crazy Uncle Paul may do better next year than in past runs, but he’s not going to be anything higher than third place. The rest of the candidates are, at this point, fighting over who avoids taking home the “Last Place” trophy.

218 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:36:36pm

re: #214 HappyWarrior

The real interesting thing for me is how Newt has cut in to Mitt’s lead in NH. Can remember earlier in the fall when Mitt looked like NH was going to be but a formality.

Same thing happened in 2008. McCain squeaked out a win after the same paper endorsed him over Romney who had been miles ahead. I’ll bet Willard shit himself when he heard he lost that endorsement again.

219 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:38:29pm

re: #218 moderatelyradicalliberal

Same thing happened in 2008. McCain squeaked out a win after the same paper endorsed him over Romney who had been miles ahead. I’ll bet Willard shit himself when he heard he lost that endorsement again.

The NH paper hates Mitt. He was never going to get that endorsement. They’ve beaten him up every year since forever.

220 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:38:45pm

re: #217 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Really, the candidate field boils down to Gingrich & Romney. Crazy Uncle Paul may do better next year than in past runs, but he’s not going to be anything higher than third place. The rest of the candidates are, at this point, fighting over who avoids taking home the “Last Place” trophy.

I agree. I am more concerned actually at how messed up the entire field is. The reality is nominating Gingrich or Romney can only make sense when you look at how fucked up the rest of the field is.

221 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:39:30pm

re: #215 EmmmieG

You don’t think that America needs a First Automaton?

I think the third Mrs. Gingrich better pull a Jolie and adopt an adorable African orphan/human shield because American women tend to hate cheating husbands and mistresses equally. As of today, she’s got nothing else going to redeem her.

222 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:39:55pm

re: #218 moderatelyradicalliberal

Same thing happened in 2008. McCain squeaked out a win after the same paper endorsed him over Romney who had been miles ahead. I’ll bet Willard shit himself when he heard he lost that endorsement again.

Honestly, I think Mitt’s the most overrated candidate ever. He’s been elected once in his whole career and that was in a Republican year and he ran as a moderate. I think Mitt will probably become less unlikable once his ambitions are done. To steal a page from history here, it was said Robert Taft became more easy to work with after Eisenhower beat him in 1952.

223 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:40:28pm

re: #220 Petero1818

I agree. I am more concerned actually at how messed up the entire field is. The reality is nominating Gingrich or Romney can only make sense when you look at how fucked up the rest of the field is.

Combined with how monumentally Failhard the base is - Huntsman not getting a sniff of even 4th place is criminal.

224 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:41:17pm

re: #222 HappyWarrior

Honestly, I think Mitt’s the most overrated candidate ever. He’s been elected once in his whole career and that was in a Republican year and he ran as a moderate. I think Mitt will probably become less unlikable once his ambitions are done. To steal a page from history here, it was said Robert Taft became more easy to work with after Eisenhower beat him in 1952.

I know. The guy has run for office like 4-5 times and only won one election. He’s not just unlikeable, he’s not all that good at politics.

225 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:42:15pm

re: #223 wozzablog

Combined with how monumentally Failhard the base is - Huntsman not getting a sniff of even 4th place is criminal.

There is no place for a Huntsman type candidate in the modern 2 party system. I am afraid that centrists on both sides will have a rough go for a while.

226 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:42:24pm

re: #220 Petero1818

I agree. I am more concerned actually at how messed up the entire field is. The reality is nominating Gingrich or Romney can only make sense when you look at how fucked up the rest of the field is.

It’s pretty much a given that the opposition party’s stable of candidates is generally lackluster when pitted against an incumbent. But this year’s field is so absolutely sad, it’s almost enough to invoke pity. The GOP’s only real, viable tactic next year will be to try to demonize Obama as much as possible. The problem with that tactic is that they’ve spent the last 3 years building up a voting record as a party of the rich and connected, at a time when that demographic is more reviled than ever.

227 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:42:29pm

re: #222 HappyWarrior

Honestly, I think Mitt’s the most overrated candidate ever. He’s been elected once in his whole career and that was in a Republican year and he ran as a moderate. I think Mitt will probably become less unlikable once his ambitions are done. To steal a page from history here, it was said Robert Taft became more easy to work with after Eisenhower beat him in 1952.

Romney is only rated so high beause of the quality of the field.

228 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:42:39pm

Here’s a weird-ass first comment. Is it a reference to a meme of some sort, or a song? Makes absolutely no sense otherwise (much like the GOP race…)

229 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:43:32pm

re: #211 HappyWarrior

Yep. They hated him for being a realist on immigration too which was the big factor behind Hayworth primarying him and why Arpaio hates him.

The problem with that turned out to be that Hayworth had lots of baggage that McCain could use to pound on him. Moreover, unlike Bennet in Utah, McCain knew he was facing a serious primary challenge. McCain then acted smartly to neutralize that challenge.

230 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:44:04pm

re: #228 publicityStunted

Here’s a weird-ass first comment. Is it a reference to a meme of some sort, or a song? Makes absolutely no sense otherwise (much like the GOP race…)

Sock.

231 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:44:13pm

re: #225 Petero1818

There is no place for a Huntsman type candidate in the modern 2 party system. I am afraid that centrists on both sides will have a rough go for a while.

Except for, like, 2008 to present, where they can apparently become President.

232 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:45:05pm

re: #224 moderatelyradicalliberal

I know. The guy has run for office like 4-5 times and only won one election. He’s not just unlikeable, he’s not all that good at politics.

Yep. Seriously, he’s better cast as a snobby businessman than president.

233 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:45:54pm

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Yep. Seriously, he’s better cast as a snobby businessman than president.

Running against Ted Kennedy and losing was, essentially, offering yourself up as a ritual sacrifice.

234 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:46:34pm

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

The problem with that turned out to be that Hayworth had lots of baggage that McCain could use to pound on him. Moreover, unlike Bennet in Utah, McCain knew he was facing a serious primary challenge. McCain then acted smartly to neutralize that challenge.

Also, Utah Republicans pick their nominee with a convention, not a primary. If you get enough nuts as delegates to the convention you can more easily toss out and incumbent. The people of Utah didn’t actually get to vote Bennett out of office. The decision was made for them. AZ has a traditional primary do McCain got to have the voters decide.

235 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:46:59pm

re: #223 wozzablog

Combined with how monumentally Failhard the base is - Huntsman not getting a sniff of even 4th place is criminal.

He’s too moderate, even for me. I want a sane conservative, not a moderate.

236 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:47:26pm

re: #225 Petero1818

There is no place for a Huntsman type candidate in the modern 2 party system. I am afraid that centrists on both sides will have a rough go for a while.

My guess is that Romney came to that same conclusion in 2005, and decided to reinvent himself for the times. It was just too bizarre, and nobody believed it.

237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:48:05pm

Just watched the Hokies (I’m a fan) have their ASSES handed to them.

Could be worse…

238 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:48:34pm

re: #221 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think the third Mrs. Gingrich better pull a Jolie and adopt an adorable African orphan/human shield because American women tend to hate cheating husbands and mistresses equally. As of today, she’s got nothing else going to redeem her.

She’ll attract the owl vote though.
/

239 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:49:04pm

re: #233 EmmmieG

Running against Ted Kennedy and losing was, essentially, offering yourself up as a ritual sacrifice.

Ha yeah. He was still fairly reasonable back then but Teddy had the best line about Mitt: I’m pro choice, my opponent is multiple choice. He annoys me when he tries to act tough on defense too. Such a bullshit artist from a guy who demonstrated in favor of the draft and didn’t serve a day. And then he made some comparison four years ago between his sons helping his campaign being equivalent to serving in uniform.

240 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:50:00pm

re: #231 Renaissance_Man

Except for, like, 2008 to present, where they can apparently become President.

Obama was better known than a lot of people gave him credit for being before he announced his pursuit of the presidency.

Long term state senator, key note speaker at the party convention, well publicised run for Senate seat in Illinois.
The base - those turned on by Democratic politics knew a lot about Obama before he announced on the steps in Springfield.

Huntsman doesn’t have that - and he doesn’t share the reflexive nationalistic populism of the GOP base. Utah is not a hot bed of interest for GOP local watchers natrionwide (see Mormonism).
State Governor sure, but in Utah.

241 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:51:16pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

He’s too moderate, even for me. I want a sane conservative, not a moderate.

On which issues is Huntsman too moderate for you?

242 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:51:37pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

He’s too moderate, even for me. I want a sane conservative, not a moderate.

He endorsed Ryan’s insane economic plan, which should make him sufficiently crazy and radical to count as a ‘conservative’ in your book. He liked Cain’s 999 plan too, which is if anything even nuttier. He has all the litmus test positions like repealing Roe vs Wade. What position of his is too moderate?

243 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:52:25pm

re: #241 funky chicken

On which issues is Huntsman too moderate for you?

The ones the right wing media are pushing, ofcourse, which is “tone”.

244 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:52:32pm

re: #240 wozzablog

Obama was better known than a lot of people gave him credit for being before he announced his pursuit of the presidency.

Long term state senator, key note speaker at the party convention, well publicised run for Senate seat in Illinois.
The base - those turned on by Democratic politics knew a lot about Obama before he announced on the steps in Springfield.

Huntsman doesn’t have that - and he doesn’t share the reflexive nationalistic populism of the GOP base.

Yeah Obama’s detractors acted like he was this one term senator and “community organizer oh no the humanity!”I remember him in 2004 quite well actually. Got a good friend from Illinois who liked him a bit.

245 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:52:45pm

re: #231 Renaissance_Man

Except for, like, 2008 to present, where they can apparently become President.

Obama has governed from the center. I do not believe that is how he won the primary.

246 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:53:13pm

re: #231 Renaissance_Man

Except for, like, 2008 to present, where they can apparently become President.

Obama was more liberal than Hillary in the primaries.

247 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:53:43pm

re: #240 wozzablog

Obama was better known than a lot of people gave him credit for being before he announced his pursuit of the presidency.

Long term state senator, key note speaker at the party convention, well publicised run for Senate seat in Illinois.
The base - those turned on by Democratic politics knew a lot about Obama before he announced on the steps in Springfield.

Huntsman doesn’t have that - and he doesn’t share the reflexive nationalistic populism of the GOP base. Utah is not a hot bed of interest for GOP locals (see Mormonism).
State Governor sure, but in Utah.

Sure, but the point was that a centrist can indeed do well. (US definition of centrist, anyway.)

248 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:54:08pm

re: #225 Petero1818

There is no place for a Huntsman type candidate in the modern 2 party system. I am afraid that centrists on both sides will have a rough go for a while.

That is largely true. The party bases on both sides are far more organized and far more ideological than was once the case. Someone dedicated to centrism isn’t really going to be liked by either side’s base these days.

249 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:55:29pm

re: #247 Renaissance_Man

Clinton was a centrist, pappy Bush was a centrist. W ran well within the main stream.

250 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:55:41pm

re: #247 Renaissance_Man

Sure, but the point was that a centrist can indeed do well. (US definition of centrist, anyway.)

Well, the center’s placement varies from country to country and from issue to issue.

251 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:57:06pm

re: #249 wozzablog

Clinton was a centrist, pappy Bush was a centrist. W ran well within the main stream.

But he won the GOP primaries by running far to the right of McCain in 1999/2000.

Clinton won the dem primaries by being more centrist than Paul Tsongas, who was my favorite.

252 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:57:37pm

re: #243 wozzablog

The ones the right wing media are pushing, ofcourse, which is “tone”.

That is it. It is the fact that he is weak. He sounds weak. Don’t get me wrong. I think he is smart, likeable, and a guy you want in the room when decisions are being made. I do not think he is a leader, a motivator, a President. Rather, he is a diplomat. Someone who can read a situation well, smooth over a problem, build consensus when the parties feel it is in their interests. As I said earlier. I think he is a VP. Not Pres.

253 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:58:16pm

re: #249 wozzablog

Clinton was a centrist, pappy Bush was a centrist. W ran well within the main stream.

“compassionate conservatism.” As opposed to Newt’s “Asshole conservatism.” For all the right’s hatred of him because of climate change, Gore ran as and is a moderate.

254 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:59:06pm

re: #243 wozzablog

The ones the right wing media are pushing, ofcourse, which is “tone”.

Ah, not hating liberals enough. Gotcha.

255 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 8:59:34pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Well, the center’s placement varies from country to country and from issue to issue.

The “defined” American Center is skewed right. On pretty much all issues.

Polling is going the other way - on healthcare the majority favoured Obamas initial more far reaching plan, economincally more people favour a “balanced” tax raising/spending cuts approach, abortions and gay marriage are both experiencing massive shifts in the definition of “center”.

But even with these shifts from the current rightwards tint the center in America is still well removed from what the rest of the western world defines as right/center/left.

256 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:00:24pm

re: #246 funky chicken

Obama was more liberal than Hillary in the primaries.

On what? Hillary was for single payer Obama wasn’t. Obama ran on escalating the Afghanistan war. Obama was seen as more liberal than Hillary because he was always against to war in Iraq. In his gut he may be, but the main divide between Obama and Hillary was the new vs. the the old. They weren’t that different on policy and on some Hillary was to the left of Obama, like health care.

257 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:00:40pm

re: #221 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think the third Mrs. Gingrich better pull a Jolie and adopt an adorable African orphan/human shield because American women tend to hate cheating husbands and mistresses equally. As of today, she’s got nothing else going to redeem her.

She looks like a Skeksis from the The Dark Crystal. I don’t mean that in the “she ugly” sense, strictly: every picture she looks kind of birdlike and predatory. Like she perches in trees and occasionally swoops down to snatch small pets, eats their insides, then impales the remains on branches like a shrike.

258 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:01:26pm

re: #252 Petero1818

That is it. It is the fact that he is weak. He sounds weak. Don’t get me wrong. I think he is smart, likeable, and a guy you want in the room when decisions are being made. I do not think he is a leader, a motivator, a President. Rather, he is a diplomat. Someone who can read a situation well, smooth over a problem, build consensus when the parties feel it is in their interests. As I said earlier. I think he is a VP. Not Pres.

I respectfully disagree.

I see in him a nice guy folkysness that is serving Obama very well, i also sense that you don’t get to be ambassador to China by being a pussy cat and rolling over when in a room with the Chinese Govt.

259 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:03:40pm

re: #256 moderatelyradicalliberal

On what? Hillary was for single payer Obama wasn’t. Obama ran on escalating the Afghanistan war. Obama was seen as more liberal than Hillary because he was always against to war in Iraq. In his gut he may be, but the main divide between Obama and Hillary was the new vs. the the old. They weren’t that different on policy and on some Hillary was to the left of Obama, like health care.

Both Obama and Clinton *wanted* single payer but knew in 2008 it wasn’t going to happen. Hilary did not run on single payer in 2008, she ran on “higher subsidies”.

nytimes.com

260 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:03:47pm

re: #258 wozzablog

I respectfully disagree.

I see in him a nice guy folkysness that is serving Obama very well, i also sense that you don’t get to be ambassador to China by being a pussy cat and rolling over when in a room with the Chinese Govt.

I certainly did not intend to portray him as a pussy cat and getting rolled over. Quite the contrary. Diplomats, particularly in a post as important as his, are master negotiators and tacticians. I see those as different skills than those required to be elected President.

261 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:05:14pm

re: #260 Petero1818

I certainly did not intend to portray him as a pussy cat and getting rolled over. Quite the contrary. Diplomats, particularly in a post as important as his, are master negotiators and tacticians. I see those as different skills than those required to be elected President.

You never know who is cut out for it until they get into office - not many people (inclding the COnservatives here) thought that Obama would have the balls to overthrow Gaddafi, or give kill orders on the pirates….(and on and on)

262 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:05:16pm

re: #254 Renaissance_Man

Ah, not hating liberals enough. Gotcha.

That’s actually a part of Romney’s problem. It’s obvious he doesn’t have the same fears and resentments that the base of the GOP does. He’s the embodiment of the corporate wing of the GOP. He wants low taxes and deregulation, but in his heart he isn’t concerned with the gays, the blacks, the Muslims, and the Mexicans. He’s also probably is pro-choice.

263 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:07:33pm

re: #259 wozzablog

Both Obama and Clinton *wanted* single payer but knew in 2008 it wasn’t going to happen. Hilary did not run on single payer in 2008, she ran on “higher subsidies”.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

I stand corrected. I suppose my larger point is that Obama being seen as more liberal than Clinton was more about him being young and new than anything he actually said or campaigned on.

264 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:08:55pm

re: #261 wozzablog

You never know who is cut out for it until they get into office - not many people (inclding the COnservatives here) thought that Obama would have the balls to overthrow Gaddafi, or give kill orders on the pirates…(and on and on)

Interesting thing I remember from my first year of history class in college. Woodrow Wilson when he was elected in 1912 had a very ambitious domestic plan but that got sidetracked by WWI. Honestly, as a relatively hawkish liberal, Obama’s impressed me. I didn’t think he’d be a wuss like many thought but his actions with Bin Laden especially impressed me and his demeanor throughout the whole process. He earned no drama Obama.

265 jvic  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:09:11pm

re: #252 Petero1818

That is it. It is the fact that he is weak. He sounds weak. Don’t get me wrong. I think he is smart, likeable, and a guy you want in the room when decisions are being made. I do not think he is a leader, a motivator, a President. Rather, he is a diplomat. Someone who can read a situation well, smooth over a problem, build consensus when the parties feel it is in their interests. As I said earlier. I think he is a VP. Not Pres.

IMO there’s a resemblance between some images of Carter and Huntsman. With all due respect to wozzablog #258, the resemblance may be as unfair to Huntsman as the “attacked by a rabbit” report was to Carter, but there it is.

266 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:09:18pm

re: #261 wozzablog

You never know who is cut out for it until they get into office - not many people (inclding the COnservatives here) thought that Obama would have the balls to overthrow Gaddafi, or give kill orders on the pirates…(and on and on)

I will agree you never really know. Though sometimes a candidates political history can hint at it. I will say that IMHO Obama has been stronger internationally that he has domestically. I think he let his own party run around on him and would have like to see him crack the party whip a little more on Pelosi and Reid. But I fully understand that not everyone shares that opinion.

267 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:10:21pm

re: #263 moderatelyradicalliberal

I stand corrected. I suppose my larger point is that Obama being seen as more liberal than Clinton was more about him being young and new than anything he actually said or campaigned on.

Oh, lord goodness, yes. That’s the ballgame right there.

It was always “perception”. Obama was more centrist than Hilary, Hilary being I think more populist.

How “left wing” Hilary can be portrayed as being legitimately though I do not know, *cough Goldwater cough*

268 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:10:38pm

re: #266 Petero1818

I will agree you never really know. Though sometimes a candidates political history can hint at it. I will say that IMHO Obama has been stronger internationally that he has domestically. I think he let his own party run around on him and would have like to see him crack the party whip a little more on Pelosi and Reid. But I fully understand that not everyone shares that opinion.

Totally true that. He’s been unforgivably weak on far too many important issues. The man was given a historic mandate and let it go with a whimper.

269 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:12:03pm

Hillary’s populism explains why my very blue collar Reagan without actually voting for Reagan Democrat grandparents were attracted to her. And I hate saying it but race was a factor there too.

270 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:12:55pm

re: #268 Renaissance_Man

Totally true that. He’s been unforgivably weak on far too many important issues. The man was given a historic mandate and let it go with a whimper.

ZOMG NO ONE CAN CRITICIZES OBAMA!!eleventy

271 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:17:20pm

re: #266 Petero1818

I will agree you never really know. Though sometimes a candidates political history can hint at it. I will say that IMHO Obama has been stronger internationally that he has domestically. I think he let his own party run around on him and would have like to see him crack the party whip a little more on Pelosi and Reid. But I fully understand that not everyone shares that opinion.

Crack the whip? On Democrats!?!? LOL! You must think Democrats are an organized party. We are no such thing. Any Democrat who wants to be president has to fight everybody: Republicans and Democrats constantly. If you want someone who can crack the whip on Democrats find a cat herder.

272 aagcobb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:17:36pm

re: #213 Petero1818

How bad does the economy have to be for Obama to lose to someone in this lot?

I sure as Hell hope we don’t have to find out.

273 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:18:16pm

re: #264 HappyWarrior

Interesting thing I remember from my first year of history class in college. Woodrow Wilson when he was elected in 1912 had a very ambitious domestic plan but that got sidetracked by WWI. Honestly, as a relatively hawkish liberal, Obama’s impressed me. I didn’t think he’d be a wuss like many thought but his actions with Bin Laden especially impressed me and his demeanor throughout the whole process. He earned no drama Obama.

I do agree. Honestly, but - I do see whats gone wrong with the Obama presidency thusly -
the Bully pulpit only gets you so far. When the Congress is almost entirely dysfunctional there is only so much that can be achieved. It’s an epochal moment in the History of Congress where they must decide to make rules changes. Majorities were there for most if not all Obama ideas - but not to break the record number of phillibusters.
On healthcare Obama came out several times publically and said “get a fuckin’ move on…” he got a bump, the policy got a bump - and still nothing moved in Congress.

When a President gets stuck domestically all they can do - all they have the power to do is act internationally. The international actions will save what could have been a bad legacy on the domestic front.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:19:44pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

John C. Calhoun’s ghost just got its wings.

He told his friends that he purposed washing his hands utterly of public life and political affairs; that he had now been to all intents and purposes a public servant from the age of thirteen to that of threescore and ten … that he had lived his whole life in plain sight of the public and the people, hiding nothing, simulating nothing, confessing nothing, extenuating nothing and regretting nothing — except that he could never get a chance to shoot Clay or hang Calhoun.

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:20:12pm

re: #63 Decatur Deb

RP

Paul or Perry RP?

276 sagehen  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:21:12pm

re: #240 wozzablog

Obama was better known than a lot of people gave him credit for being before he announced his pursuit of the presidency.

Long term state senator, key note speaker at the party convention, well publicised run for Senate seat in Illinois.
The base - those turned on by Democratic politics knew a lot about Obama before he announced on the steps in Springfield.

Huntsman doesn’t have that - and he doesn’t share the reflexive nationalistic populism of the GOP base. Utah is not a hot bed of interest for GOP local watchers natrionwide (see Mormonism).
State Governor sure, but in Utah.

Obama was a rising star for a long time — the NYT ran a profile on him in 1993 when he was elected president of the Harvard Law Review. He had mentors in the Illinois legislature who spent 3 evenings a week, every week, schooling him, and made sure his name was listed near the top of the sponsor list on legislation they knew would pass by a wide margin and be broadly popular. Oprah gave him media lessons before he decided whether to run for the Senate.

John Kerry wasn’t pulling names randomly out of a hat when he asked him to deliver that keynote speech at the ‘04 convention — and after that speech, his book got rereleased and the liberal netroots swarmed him on his book tour begging him to run in 08.

277 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:21:56pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

He told his friends that he purposed washing his hands utterly of public life and political affairs; that he had now been to all intents and purposes a public servant from the age of thirteen to that of threescore and ten … that he had lived his whole life in plain sight of the public and the people, hiding nothing, simulating nothing, confessing nothing, extenuating nothing and regretting nothing — except that he could never get a chance to shoot Clay or hang Calhoun.

What are best presidential death bed regrets, Alex.

278 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:23:12pm

re: #273 wozzablog

I do agree. Honestly, but - I do see whats gone wrong with the Obama presidency thusly -
the Bully pulpit only gets you so far. When the Congress is almost entirely dysfunctional there is only so much that can be achieved. It’s an epochal moment in the History of Congress where they must decide to make rules changes. Majorities were there for most if not all Obama ideas - but not to break the record number of phillibusters.
On healthcare Obama came out several times publically and said “get a fuckin’ move on…” he got a bump, the policy got a bump - and still nothing moved in Congress.

When a President gets stuck domestically all they can do - all they have the power to do is act internationally. The international actions will save what could have been a bad legacy on the domestic front.

Yeah, he’s been a little disappointing on domestics. Health care wasn’t what I wanted it but passing it was a feat.

279 palomino  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:23:31pm

re: #268 Renaissance_Man

Totally true that. He’s been unforgivably weak on far too many important issues. The man was given a historic mandate and let it go with a whimper.

Obama’s not the type to bust heads and arm twist leglislators. It’s the only way he could have gotten more of his agenda enacted…too many conservadems who had to be prodded, bribed, whatever to get their votes. Back in the day LBJ would just threaten to close down a military base in a congress person’s district or state. But that’s never been Obama’s style, for better or worse.

Obama also faced unprecedented obstructionism from the gop. It’s a minor miracle he got any of his agenda passed.

Maybe Hillary could have done a better job of that since she seems to have the personality and instincts of a political brawler. The one and only thing I’ve ever heard Sarah Palin say about Obama that made sense was that he’s the “professor in chief.” To her that’s a problem because Obama relies too much on book learnin’ and other types of elitism, like science and reason. To me it’s been a problem because Obama occasionally seems detached and just isn’t very forceful.

280 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:23:38pm

re: #273 wozzablog

I do agree. Honestly, but - I do see whats gone wrong with the Obama presidency thusly -
the Bully pulpit only gets you so far. When the Congress is almost entirely dysfunctional there is only so much that can be achieved. It’s an epochal moment in the History of Congress where they must decide to make rules changes. Majorities were there for most if not all Obama ideas - but not to break the record number of phillibusters.
On healthcare Obama came out several times publically and said “get a fuckin’ move on…” he got a bump, the policy got a bump - and still nothing moved in Congress.

When a President gets stuck domestically all they can do - all they have the power to do is act internationally. The international actions will save what could have been a bad legacy on the domestic front.

I guess therefore the question is, would another President have been able to ram those things through? I don’t know the answer, but I suppose that I hope for one who could.

281 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:23:42pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

He told his friends that he purposed washing his hands utterly of public life and political affairs; that he had now been to all intents and purposes a public servant from the age of thirteen to that of threescore and ten … that he had lived his whole life in plain sight of the public and the people, hiding nothing, simulating nothing, confessing nothing, extenuating nothing and regretting nothing — except that he could never get a chance to shoot Clay or hang Calhoun.

Thirteen?

Is this JQA?

282 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:23:44pm

re: #276 sagehen

Obama was a rising star for a long time — the NYT ran a profile on him in 1993 when he was elected president of the Harvard Law Review. He had mentors in the Illinois legislature who spent 3 evenings a week, every week, schooling him, and made sure his name was listed near the top of the sponsor list on legislation they knew would pass by a wide margin and be broadly popular. Oprah gave him media lessons before he decided whether to run for the Senate.

John Kerry wasn’t pulling names randomly out of a hat when he asked him to deliver that keynote speech at the ‘04 convention — and after that speech, his book got rereleased and the liberal netroots swarmed him on his book tour begging him to run in 08.

Bingo. His star was on the rise in the UK in the build up to the 2004 COnvention speech - it got a lot of hype here. Which is why I have always had no time for ANYONE who has said the guy was an unknown. We knew about him in the U freakin K in 2004.

283 jvic  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:24:19pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

He told his friends that he purposed washing his hands utterly of public life and political affairs; that he had now been to all intents and purposes a public servant from the age of thirteen to that of threescore and ten … that he had lived his whole life in plain sight of the public and the people, hiding nothing, simulating nothing, confessing nothing, extenuating nothing and regretting nothing — except that he could never get a chance to shoot Clay or hang Calhoun.

For some time I’ve wanted a link to that Andrew Jackson anecdote. If you’d be so kind, SFZ…

284 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:25:58pm

Mkay. I should have known that JQA wasn’t going to be shooting anybody.

To be honest, Jackson isn’t my favorite president. I think it was the Indian thing.

285 sagehen  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:26:26pm

re: #260 Petero1818

I certainly did not intend to portray him as a pussy cat and getting rolled over. Quite the contrary. Diplomats, particularly in a post as important as his, are master negotiators and tacticians. I see those as different skills than those required to be elected President.

Sadly, the skill set required to be elected President has very little overlap with the skill set required to be a good President.

286 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:26:53pm

re: #281 EmmmieG

Thirteen?

Is this JQA?

I guess Jackson thought his experience as a boy soldier in the revolution qualified as that.
Image: andrew-jackson-revolution.jpg

287 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:27:08pm

re: #278 HappyWarrior

Yeah, he’s been a little disappointing on domestics. Health care wasn’t what I wanted it but passing it was a feat.

Healthcare that passed both houses wasn’t what Obama wanted to be honest. What passed was the best they could get through GOP phillibuster and the BlueDogs who’s been bankrolled by the insurance companies for the last decade.

The initial healthcare plan - drawn up by him and Tom Daschle was pretty solid. Unfortunately Dem bluedogs in the senate were more respectful of the Healthcare Companies that paid to keep their offices warm than they did teh POTUS

288 aagcobb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:27:10pm

re: #262 moderatelyradicalliberal

That’s actually a part of Romney’s problem. It’s obvious he doesn’t have the same fears and resentments that the base of the GOP does. He’s the embodiment of the corporate wing of the GOP. He wants low taxes and deregulation, but in his heart he isn’t concerned with the gays, the blacks, the Muslims, and the Mexicans. He’s also probably is pro-choice.

I’m not so sure about that.

289 palomino  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:28:37pm

re: #280 Petero1818

I guess therefore the question is, would another President have been able to ram those things through? I don’t know the answer, but I suppose that I hope for one who could.

Hillary, possibly, and only because she knows where all the bodies are buried in DC, so to speak. She can also be more of an attack dog, which might have served her well. Having said that, she still might not have gotten anymore done than Obama, so entrenched is the partisan gridlock and the Dems’ disorganization.

290 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:28:40pm

re: #284 EmmmieG

Mkay. I should have known that JQA wasn’t going to be shooting anybody.

To be honest, Jackson isn’t my favorite president. I think it was the Indian thing.

It would be so weird for me if I were in 1824. I’m a rare guy who likes both. My ideas are more Adamsian though. Internal improvements(man was way ahead of his time), staunch abolitionist but there are many things about Jackson the Indian issue aside that make me say damnit Andy I like you.

291 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:29:06pm

re: #286 HappyWarrior

I guess Jackson thought his experience as a boy soldier in the revolution qualified as that.
Image: andrew-jackson-revolution.jpg

Like I said, I’ve kind of ignored Jackson, other than to find out what was going on with his wife.

292 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:29:16pm

re: #280 Petero1818

I guess therefore the question is, would another President have been able to ram those things through? I don’t know the answer, but I suppose that I hope for one who could.

The Republicans would have been even more intransigent against Hilary. I don’t know how that would have been possible, but theres no way i think Hilary gets what Obama managed to.

293 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:31:22pm

re: #281 EmmmieG

Thirteen?

Is this JQA?

Andrew Jackson. He joined a local militia during the Revolutionary War, when he was thirteen. Ran errands and messages, I think.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:32:08pm

re: #283 jvic

For some time I’ve wanted a link to that Andrew Jackson anecdote. If you’d be so kind, SFZ…

Over at Wikiquote. It’s in the ‘attributed’ section.

295 aagcobb  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:32:34pm

re: #289 palomino

Hillary, possibly, and only because she knows where all the bodies are buried in DC, so to speak. She can also be more of an attack dog, which might have served her well. Having said that, she still might not have gotten anymore done than Obama, so entrenched is the partisan gridlock and the Dems’ disorganization.

If you remember history, Hillarycare sank without a trace during Clinton’s first term.

296 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:33:08pm

re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist

Andrew Jackson. He joined a local militia during the Revolutionary War, when he was thirteen. Ran errands and messages, I think.

JQA was journeying around with his father at that age. He went to Russia, I believe, with a US diplomat as a teen.

297 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:33:57pm

re: #291 EmmmieG

Like I said, I’ve kind of ignored Jackson, other than to find out what was going on with his wife.

Our first self made president. Orphaned as a teen. He’s got an interesting life. I certainly don’t condone everything he did or stood for but I got a certain grudging admiration for him. Hamilton too for similiar reasons. Hamilton was a bastard both ways but as much as I love Jefferson we live in Hamilton’s vision for America economically. As for JQA- probably one of the best diplomats ever.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:34:10pm

re: #284 EmmmieG

Mkay. I should have known that JQA wasn’t going to be shooting anybody.

To be honest, Jackson isn’t my favorite president. I think it was the Indian thing.

He was a deplorable person in many ways. The Indian thing remains a national disgrace. But there’s a wit and humor to Jackson, and a total lack of bullshit, that still appeals these many many years later. Complicated person.

299 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:35:11pm

re: #298 SanFranciscoZionist

He was a deplorable person in many ways. The Indian thing remains a national disgrace. But there’s a wit and humor to Jackson, and a total lack of bullshit, that still appeals these many many years later. Complicated person.

About how many great men and women can we say that?

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:35:22pm

re: #296 EmmmieG

JQA was journeying around with his father at that age. He went to Russia, I believe, with a US diplomat as a teen.

Yes.

Not an easy life, in many ways. But the Adamses didn’t believe in whining.

301 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:35:35pm

re: #295 aagcobb

If you remember history, Hillarycare sank without a trace during Clinton’s first term.

Again, I don’t know if she could have got it done or not. But comparing Hillary the First Lady with Hillary after serving in the senate for a while is like comparing princess diana on her wedding day to Queen Elizabeth on her Golden Jubilee.

302 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:36:26pm

re: #301 Petero1818

Again, I don’t know if she could have got it done or not. But comparing Hillary the First Lady with Hillary after serving in the senate for a while is like comparing princess diana on her wedding day to Queen Elizabeth on her Golden Jubilee.

I think that’s a bit of an overstatement.

How about Princess Diana at 20 with Princess Diana at 32?

303 palomino  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:37:04pm

re: #295 aagcobb

If you remember history, Hillarycare sank without a trace during Clinton’s first term.

And if you remember history, Hillary was about 43 at the time, inexperienced and not the president.

Twenty years can make a big difference. Think Hillary could have been a successful Sec. of State 20 years ago? She learned a lot and was highly thought of in the Senate. Gridlock probably would have killed Pres. Hillary’s agenda, as it did Obama’s, not some personal flaw on her part.

304 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:37:26pm

re: #302 EmmmieG

I think that’s a bit of an overstatement.

How about Princess Diana at 20 with Princess Diana at 32?

touche

305 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:37:28pm

re: #299 EmmmieG

About how many great men and women can say that?

And now you know why I love history and English. History has all the real life drama of literature and masterful figures who you can both admire and despise at the same time. I’ve had this idea for some time to try to make the life of President Nixon in to a Shakespearean tragedy.

306 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:38:00pm

re: #301 Petero1818

Again, I don’t know if she could have got it done or not. But comparing Hillary the First Lady with Hillary after serving in the senate for a while is like comparing princess diana on her wedding day to Queen Elizabeth on her Golden Jubilee.

That wouldn’t have mattered to the people who remember “Hilarycare”, namely Republicans on the Hill and in the media. They hated her guts to begin with - viscerally - Obama came in with a clean slate and had to earn the vitriol heaped upon him freshly. It was pre-packaged and ready to go with Hilary.

307 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:39:38pm

re: #304 Petero1818

touche

It’s just that Princess Diana and the Queen are two very different women who experienced very different things.

Better to compare one woman with herself earlier and later.

308 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:39:52pm

re: #305 HappyWarrior

And now you know why I love history and English. History has all the real life drama of literature and masterful figures who you can both admire and despise at the same time. I’ve had this idea for some time to try to make the life of President Nixon in to a Shakespearean tragedy.

MacBeth.

309 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:40:03pm

re: #308 EmmmieG

MacBeth.

Heh. Lady MacBeth.

310 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:40:47pm

re: #306 wozzablog

That wouldn’t have mattered to the people who remember “Hilarycare”, namely Republicans on the Hill and in the media. They hated her guts to begin with - viscerally - Obama came in with a clean slate and had to earn the vitriol. It was pre-packaged with Hilary.

Its not about Vitriol. It is about power. Its like war and peace. you don’t make peace with your friends, you make it with your enemies. Same thing with tough legislation. you don’t pass it with your peers all clapping along side you, you ram it down the throats of your adversaries and power it through using whatever weapons you possess.

311 jvic  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:40:50pm

re: #298 SanFranciscoZionist

He was a deplorable person in many ways. The Indian thing remains a national disgrace. But there’s a wit and humor to Jackson, and a total lack of bullshit, that still appeals these many many years later. Complicated person.

And, iirc, a slaveowner who did not provide for a single manumission after his death.

Nevertheless, IMHO, by quashing Calhoun and South Carolina, Jackson delayed the showdown over secession long enough for the North to acquire a decisive economic advantage.

Had there arisen a Southern slave state expansive toward Latin America, what the USA stands for in history would have been very different indeed.

312 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:41:59pm

That a good man can do horrible things
Or that a bad man is equally capable of doing good
But you ask yourself, what is good and what is bad

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:42:14pm

re: #309 EmmmieG

Heh. Lady MacBeth.

Veering the subject away—my English teacher junior year showed us Kurosawa’s “Throne of Blood” when we read MacBeth.

She said we’d never forget the scene where they shoot him full of arrows, but it’s the scene with the Lady Macbeth character washing her hands that’s stayed with me. Seated in kimono, perfectly straight-backed and formally positioned, washing her hands over and over again, and crying.

314 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:42:48pm

re: #310 Petero1818

Its not about Vitriol. It is about power. Its like war and peace. you don’t make peace with your friends, you make it with your enemies. Same thing with tough legislation. you don’t pass it with your peers all clapping along side you, you ram it down the throats of your adversaries and power it through using whatever weapons you possess.

It is entirely about vitriol at the moment.

Name another time when a Representative who shouts “you lie” at a Resident during a joint session gets rewarded richly?.

The vitriol is one way, but it makes people less than rational.

315 palomino  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:43:04pm

re: #306 wozzablog

That wouldn’t have mattered to the people who remember “Hilarycare”, namely Republicans on the Hill and in the media. They hated her guts to begin with - viscerally - Obama came in with a clean slate and had to earn the vitriol heaped upon him freshly. It was pre-packaged and ready to go with Hilary.

The Hillarycare parallels are a bit misleading, I think. One reason it failed was that it was actually a more “radical left wing” plan than Obamacare, which is in truth a Republican plan courtesy of people like Dole, Gingrich and Romney. All of which makes the gop opposition to it seem even more mindlessly anti-Obama partisanship.

Another reason Hillarycare failed was that Bill put Hillary in charge of pushing the plan. This made a lot of Dems and Repubs resentful, as in “who the hell is this lady lecturing us?” She’s obviously gained in stature since then.

316 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:44:58pm

re: #292 wozzablog

The Republicans would have been even more intransigent against Hilary. I don’t know how that would have been possible, but theres no way i think Hilary gets what Obama managed to.

The Clintons, unlike Obama could not figure out a way to get any kind of health care reform past and they impeached Bill. I think we must accept that the GOP insanity exists independently of who the Democrat living in White House is.

317 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:45:17pm

re: #309 EmmmieG

Heh. Lady MacBeth.

Excellent play. And Shakespeare was a big reason why i became an English minor in the first place. Him, James Joyce, W.B Yeats, and Frank McCourt. Took two Shakespeare courses at the same time in Spring 2010. A lot of work since unlike most lit I have to read Shakespeare aloud and I accidentally deleted a whole essay on the evolution of the word “mischief” which was insane but thankfully the professor understood and gave me an extension with the caveat that I’d lose ten points automatically. That was fine.

318 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:45:22pm

re: #306 wozzablog

That wouldn’t have mattered to the people who remember “Hilarycare”, namely Republicans on the Hill and in the media. They hated her guts to begin with - viscerally - Obama came in with a clean slate and had to earn the vitriol. It was pre-packaged with Hilary.

“Why doesn’t Hillary wear miniskirts?

Her balls hang out.”

That was the attitude toward her as First Lady.

As SoS, that is an advantage, no? I think she has done a tremendous job at State. Her recent trip to Europe seems to have put some spine into saving the Euro. If that currency collapsed, we would see a 1930’s depression descend on the western world. It would be disastrous for our economy.

319 sagehen  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:45:52pm

re: #305 HappyWarrior

And now you know why I love history and English. History has all the real life drama of literature and masterful figures who you can both admire and despise at the same time. I’ve had this idea for some time to try to make the life of President Nixon in to a Shakespearean tragedy.

Nixon in China is already an opera. Got mixed reviews, but it’s been staged at the Metropolitan, in Colorado, in Houston, and in Canada and Europe.

320 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:46:22pm

re: #315 palomino

The Hillarycare parallels are a bit misleading, I think. One reason it failed was that it was actually a more “radical left wing” plan than Obamacare, which is in truth a Republican plan courtesy of people like Dole, Gingrich and Romney. All of which makes the gop opposition to it seem even more mindlessly anti-Obama partisanship.

Another reason Hillarycare failed was that Bill put Hillary in charge of pushing the plan. This made a lot of Dems and Repubs resentful, as in “who the hell is this lady lecturing us?” She’s obviously gained in stature since then.

All I’m saying is she would have had an even worse time. It no longer matters what Hilarycare contained - but that the GOP would have said over and over to the Insurance companies, to business owners to anyone who would listen - that Hilary is doing it again.
Sec Of State being overseas is a good position for her - there is still very very little time or respect for her among people on the right even after stepping out of Bills shadow.

321 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:46:24pm

By the way my 312 is from a poem I wrote.

322 Petero1818  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:46:44pm

re: #314 wozzablog

It is entirely about vitriol at the moment.

Name another time when a Representative who shouts “you lie” at a Resident during a joint session gets rewarded richly?.

The vitriol is one way, but it makes people less than rational.

I think you misunderstand me. I am not denying the vitriol. I am saying that tough legislation gets passed with or without it. It is about how you wield power to push things through. They impeached Clinton while he governed!

323 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:46:57pm

re: #321 HappyWarrior

By the way my 312 is from a poem I wrote
There’s a time where the ideal is that matters
A time for thinking in black and white
Where flaws do not exist
We realize as we age
That we’re all too human
Imperfections aye with bad in us
But also good in us
That a good man can do horrible things
Or that a bad man is equally capable of doing good
But you ask yourself, what is good and what is bad
Truth is a worthy goal, yes
But find yourself thinking about what is truth
We’re ultimately all too human
Our vices to be admired
And our virtues to be disdained
Like a rainy day in May
Heroes don’t look so heroic no more
But yet we relate to them more than ever
For they like us
Are all too human
.

324 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:47:21pm

re: #318 austin_blue

See 320

Sec Of State being overseas is a good position for her

325 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:48:49pm

re: #324 wozzablog

See 320

GMTA!

326 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:48:50pm

re: #318 austin_blue

As SoS, that is an advantage, no? I think she has done a tremendous job at State. Her recent trip to Europe seems to have put some spine into saving the Euro. If that currency collapsed, we would see a 1930’s depression descend on the western world. It would be disastrous for our economy.

I was very proud of her recent trip to Burma and meeting with Suu Kyi. Democratic women, getting things done.bbc.co.uk

327 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:50:38pm

re: #326 prairiefire

I was very proud of her recent trip to Burma and meeting with Suu Kyi. Democratic women, getting things done.[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]

I saw a documentary on underground journalists in Burma. Brave souls all and Suu Kyi too. She’s one of those ripples of hope Bobby Kennedy talked about.

328 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:50:58pm

re: #316 moderatelyradicalliberal

The Clintons, unlike Obama could not figure out a way to get any kind of health care reform past and they impeached Bill. I think we must accept that the GOP insanity exists independently of who the Democrat living in White House is.

Bill had to contend with a GOP House and Senate for most of his two terms.

It’s been passed, and people are grateful, the 90’s were a different time with a different dynamic.

329 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:54:03pm

re: #319 sagehen

Nixon in China is already an opera. Got mixed reviews, but it’s been staged at the Metropolitan, in Colorado, in Houston, and in Canada and Europe.

Yeah I’ve heard about that and Frost/Nixon is also a play but a play about the life of Nixon would be awesome. It’s ripe really. Self made guy reaches highest office in land after many failures and personal tragedy too. I gained some sympathy for Nixon reading his memoirs and him talking about the sorrow he felt losing two brothers to TB.

330 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:54:36pm

re: #311 jvic

And, iirc, a slaveowner who did not provide for a single manumission after his death.

Nevertheless, IMHO, by quashing Calhoun and South Carolina, Jackson delayed the showdown over secession long enough for the North to acquire a decisive economic advantage.

Had there arisen a Southern slave state expansive toward Latin America, what the USA stands for in history would have been very different indeed.

I’d agree with that last. There were several earlier points where the American Civil War could have erupted, and was good that it took as long as it did fore the final crisis to occur. For had the war come sooner, say as a result of the Nullification Crisis, the South might well have been able to stand the North off. The explosion of railroads in the US in the 1850’s finally made cross country logistics really doable.

331 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:55:15pm

re: #322 Petero1818

I think you misunderstand me. I am not denying the vitriol. I am saying that tough legislation gets passed with or without it. It is about how you wield power to push things through. They impeached Clinton while he governed!

Obama has got a lot done, a lot has been watered down and he’s tried to do it in a bi-partisan fashion. Extending the olive branch makes the GOP look extermely selfish as they bat it away.

I can’t comment on the diversity of make up of the Dem caucus back in the 90’s but a bunch of the Senate Des this time around were on the verge of flipping to R or just sat it out. Thats a failure of Senate leadership and of the Dems in the states electing weak senators.

332 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:58:03pm

re: #329 HappyWarrior

Yeah I’ve heard about that and Frost/Nixon is also a play but a play about the life of Nixon would be awesome. It’s ripe really. Self made guy reaches highest office in land after many failures and personal tragedy too. I gained some sympathy for Nixon reading his memoirs and him talking about the sorrow he felt losing two brothers to TB.

If you believe that the life story of a paranoid, fatally insecure asshole would make riveting drama, Nixon is your guy.

333 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:58:58pm

I would like at this point to say that I personally like Hilary as a character and a politician - I prefer Obama, but I do like Hilary.

Anything negative coming across is just a result of my analysis of how her involvement and historical perceptions about her in certain situations would break down. I’m not working from my own prejudices, but those of those who will never give her the time of day, let alone piss on her if she were on fire.

334 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:59:40pm

To add in another factor re: #332 austin_blue

If you believe that the life story of a paranoid, fatally insecure asshole would make riveting drama, Nixon is your guy.

I do. Because you’re not born a paranoid, insecure asshole.

335 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 9:59:45pm

re: #332 austin_blue

If you believe that the life story of a paranoid, fatally insecure asshole would make riveting drama, Nixon is your guy.

It was a great play in the round, Frosts book is fantastic and the movie was pretty good.

336 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:00:12pm

re: #332 austin_blue

If you believe that the life story of a paranoid, fatally insecure asshole would make riveting drama, Nixon is your guy.

And the MacBeths were…what?

337 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:01:07pm

re: #297 HappyWarrior

Our first self made president. Orphaned as a teen. He’s got an interesting life. I certainly don’t condone everything he did or stood for but I got a certain grudging admiration for him. Hamilton too for similiar reasons. Hamilton was a bastard both ways but as much as I love Jefferson we live in Hamilton’s vision for America economically. As for JQA- probably one of the best diplomats ever.

Hamilton was a bastard, yes even literally, but compared to Jackson he was the greatest saint in christian history. Quite seriously, one can make an argument that Jackson was as evil as several other 20th century shit birds just a hundred years too early for real death counts.

The worst fucker in American History remains that rat bastard Arron Burr. If there really was justice in this world, he would have died rather than Hamilton.

338 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:01:20pm

re: #316 moderatelyradicalliberal

The Clintons, unlike Obama could not figure out a way to get any kind of health care reform past and they impeached Bill. I think we must accept that the GOP insanity exists independently of who the Democrat living in White House is.

Remember, Hillarycare died while the Democrats still had both house of Congress. But it was part and parcel of the Democrat’s attempt to get a lot of things passed in Clinton’s first two years. That did indeed happen, but Hillary’s health care plan proved a bridge too far for many legislators, and its public support was badly eroded.

Though Dems having done that much also helped the GOP boot them out of Congress. For the first time since the 1960’s, the Dems controlled the White House, both houses of Congress and were organized enough to move swiftly*. But that movement worried the voters, who do not really like unified government.

*: Though the Democrats controlled Congress under Jimmy Carter. Carter was unable to deal with Congress effectively.

339 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:01:20pm

re: #336 EmmmieG

And the MacBeths were…what?

Democrats.

340 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:01:35pm

re: #335 wozzablog

It was a great play in the round, Frosts book is fantastic and the movie was pretty good.

How was STacy Keach as Nixon? I only really know him as Ken Titus from Titus and a white supremacist in American History X.

341 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:02:02pm

re: #336 EmmmieG

And the MacBeths were…what?

Well, yeah, but The Scottish Play has been done. Please don’t use the “M” word.

342 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:03:12pm

re: #340 HappyWarrior

How was STacy Keach as Nixon? I only really know him as Ken Titus from Titus and a white supremacist in American History X.

I saw it in the UK/

343 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:03:35pm

re: #337 wlewisiii

Hamilton was a bastard, yes even literally, but compared to Jackson he was the greatest saint in christian history. Quite seriously, one can make an argument that Jackson was as evil as several other 20th century shit birds just a hundred years too early for real death counts.

The worst fucker in American History remains that rat bastard Arron Burr. If there really was justice in this world, he would have died rather than Hamilton.

Yes, but Hamilton did not want to be a killer. So he refused to fire for effect. That happened sometimes in duals.

344 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:04:01pm

re: #337 wlewisiii

Hamilton was a bastard, yes even literally, but compared to Jackson he was the greatest saint in christian history. Quite seriously, one can make an argument that Jackson was as evil as several other 20th century shit birds just a hundred years too early for real death counts.

The worst fucker in American History remains that rat bastard Arron Burr. If there really was justice in this world, he would have died rather than Hamilton.

I read Gore Vidal’s fictional biography of Burr my first year of college. It was that or a Washington biography(Indispensable Man) Went with Burr because I knew little about him and I agree. People throw traitor around alot well Burr likely was one.

345 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:05:11pm

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but Hamilton did not want to be a killer. So he refused to fire for effect. That happened sometimes in duals.

Most noble thing I recall about Hamilton is declining participation in a high federalist secessionist movement that was formed after the Louisiana Purchase.

346 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:06:00pm

G’night all.

(and yes i’ve just changed my avatar. the un-Obamaised version of my old old pic)

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:06:38pm

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but Hamilton did not want to be a killer. So he refused to fire for effect. That happened sometimes in duals.

My favorite.

348 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:09:43pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

[Video]My favorite.

This would be great for a history class. Short, sweet, and informative.

349 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:10:33pm

Went shopping for a mattress today with the wife. Almost makes me wish I had to watch the debate instead. Almost..;)

350 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:10:43pm

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but Hamilton did not want to be a killer. So he refused to fire for effect. That happened sometimes in duals.

One thing most people don’t know or don’t take into account about that duel is that Hamilton’s oldest son had been killed in a duel defending his father’s honor.

pbs.org

I’ve often wondered about that. What effect it had.

351 austin_blue  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:11:22pm

I’m for the rack. Sweet scaly Lizard dreams to you all.

352 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:11:52pm

I don’t think we have to worry about todays politicians dueling over honor.

353 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:13:02pm

Now, this is new to me. Kind of cool.

354 sagehen  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:13:13pm

re: #333 wozzablog

I would like at this point to say that I personally like Hilary as a character and a politician - I prefer Obama, but I do like Hilary.

Anything negative coming across is just a result of my analysis of how her involvement and historical perceptions about her in certain situations would break down. I’m not working from my own prejudices, but those of those who will never give her the time of day, let alone piss on her if she were on fire.

I like Hillary a lot more now than I did in 2008 — I would not have predicted she’d be as good at her job as she is.

But I’m still really glad she’s not President — even if her legislative agenda were identical to Obama’s, I couldn’t stand the drama if her family were the ones in the fishbowl.

355 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:13:17pm

re: #352 Amory Blaine

I don’t think we have to worry about todays politicians dueling over honor.

No.

356 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:14:32pm

re: #352 Amory Blaine

I don’t think we have to worry about todays politicians dueling over honor.

They would need to HAVE some honor first. ;)

357 sagehen  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:24:05pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

[Video]My favorite.

So Hamilton’s 2nd, Jesse Benton… should I presume he’s the ancestor of eventual Senator Thomas Hart Benton, whose daughter Jesse married John C Fremont?

358 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:28:47pm

re: #353 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, this is new to me. Kind of cool.

[Video]

That’s the “In The Heights” writer. Awesome

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 10:47:31pm

re: #357 sagehen

So Hamilton’s 2nd, Jesse Benton… should I presume he’s the ancestor of eventual Senator Thomas Hart Benton, whose daughter Jesse married John C Fremont?

At the Wiki page for said Thomas Hart Benton, Benton was born in Harts Mill, North Carolina, near the present-day town of Hillsborough. His father Jesse Benton, a wealthy lawyer and landowner, died in 1790. His grandfather Samuel Benton [1] (~1720 - 1770) was born in Worcester, England and settled in the Province of North Carolina.

Now, if Jesse died in 1790, he can’t be the same one who seconded a duel in 1804, however, here I find: In June 1813, Jackson served as a second for Billy Carroll in a duel with Jesse Benton, Jr., Thomas’s brother. Both men were severely wounded and the Benton-Jackson friendship came to an abrupt end.

I’d speculate, based on that detail and the dates, that the Jesse from the Burr-Hamilton duel was Thomas’s brother, Jesse Jr.

360 palomino  Sat, Dec 3, 2011 11:25:26pm

re: #320 wozzablog

All I’m saying is she would have had an even worse time. It no longer matters what Hilarycare contained - but that the GOP would have said over and over to the Insurance companies, to business owners to anyone who would listen - that Hilary is doing it again.
Sec Of State being overseas is a good position for her - there is still very very little time or respect for her among people on the right even after stepping out of Bills shadow.

That’s why I didn’t vote for Hillary in the primaries. I was afraid she would be too divisive as a president, just as much as her husband and Bush Jr. I also didn’t like the sound of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton…seeing as we’re not a monarchy.

But I was wrong and naive to think the country could be at all unified under Obama. He’s turned out to be just as divisive, not really because of anything he’s done but who he is. The reasons I think Hillary might have gotten as much or more done are two: first, she learned a lot about Congress and was effective there in her 8 years as Senator. Second, there would not have been a national freak-out over her birth certificate, religion, skin color, etc. It’s disgusting, unprecedented, and done a lot to poison Obama’s presidency.

361 steve_davis  Sun, Dec 4, 2011 8:52:33am

re: #111 mattand

When I read this, I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger saying it. Makes more sense that way.

No, no. Sylvester Stallone. Arnold would say, “You’re a funny man, Santorum. That’s why I’m going to kill you last.”


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh