At the Heritage Foundation, Jon Huntsman Goes Anti-Science

Pandering
Wingnuts • Views: 21,386

Remember when GOP presidential candidate Jon Huntsman called out his Republican opponents for rejecting the science of evolution and climate change?

That was just last August. In the three months since then, he’s apparently decided to throw in his lot with the anti-science wing of the GOP. Speaking today at the right wing propaganda tank known as the Heritage Foundation, Huntsman parroted their ridiculous claims about the “Climategate” fake outrage.

In a move that’s sure to endear him to the conservatives who are starting to warm up to the former Utah governor, Huntsman said Tuesday under questioning from TPM that he now believes there’s “more debate yet to play out” before we can be sure climate change is really happening.

…Now he’s talking about the conspiracy theories that have been a mainstay of the climate change denier community for years and backing off his previous contention that climate science is real.

“[T]here is — there are questions about the validity of the science, evidenced by one university over in Scotland recently,” Huntsman said, referring to the East Anglia University conspiracy that continues to fuel climate change skepticism. “I think the onus is on the scientific community to provide more in the way of information, to help clarify the situation.”

How sad and pathetic. Next from Jon Huntsman: “Evolution is just a theory, really. And if we came from apes, why are there still apes?”

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196 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:11:44pm

Huntsman knows better than this. Damnit dude, they’re not going to vote for you anyhow. At least try to have some integrity and nads.

2 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:14:12pm
“I think the onus is on the scientific community to provide more in the way of information, to help clarify the situation.”

“Which is why they all get flooded with information requests from nutjobs who want to waste their time.”

How about we let the scientists do science, and we take it upon ourselves to educate ourselves about this incredibly important topic? It doesn’t take much. A few good books and you’re basically grounded. Science shouldn’t be immediately viewed with suspicion; the reason it’s ‘science’ is that it comes from a process that’s more rigorous than ones normal people use to come to conclusions.

3 leftynyc  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:14:26pm

He was the only one I had any respect for because he stood up to the anti-science rubes. Now he’s just another pandering politician.

4 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:15:15pm

Facepalm.

5 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:15:42pm

“I think the onus is on the scientific community to provide more in the way of information, to help clarify the situation.”

Science has done a perfectly reasonable job of providing enough information. But most of it is for other scientists, not for dimwits with an agenda to push.

It is the hackers and leakers who provided the misleading and incomplete information.

How topsy-turvy is their view of the world over there?

6 erik_t  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:16:01pm

I really would love to know the percentage of publicly-held positions actually believed by each candidate.

Pretty sure Bachmann is the heavy favorite as the betting opens.

7 Charleston Chew  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:16:09pm

He sold his soul for a race he can’t win. Like betting the mortgage on a lame racehorse.

8 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:16:53pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

Huntsman knows better than this. Damnit dude, they’re not going to vote for you anyhow. At least try to have some integrity and nads.

Agreed.

9 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:17:10pm

re: #7 Charleston Chew

He sold his soul for a race he can’t win. Like betting the mortgage on a lame racehorse.

Like giving away the rent money to a Nigerian spammer.

10 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:18:09pm

He is trying to keep a campaign alive. This is the wrong way to do it.

11 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:18:58pm

So Huntsman wants to go from 2% to 3%? Talk about selling your soul for pennies.

12 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:19:09pm

re: #7 Charleston Chew

He sold his soul for a race he can’t win. Like betting the mortgage on a lame racehorse.

More like spending all your equity on a retired gelding, hoping to put it out to stud.

13 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:20:00pm

In other ridiculous news, Pamela Geller is suing the government to try to force them into granting a trademark to her hate group Stop the Islamization of America. Her attorney is raving racist David Yerushalmi.

14 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:20:49pm

re: #13 Charles

In other ridiculous news, Pamela Geller is suing the government to try to force them into granting a trademark to her hate group Stop the Islamization of America. Her attorney is raving racist David Yerushalmi.

Orly Taitz sez: Need moar FAIL!

15 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:22:21pm

re: #2 Obdicut

“Which is why they all get flooded with information requests from nutjobs who want to waste their time.”

How about we let the scientists do science, and we take it upon ourselves to educate ourselves about this incredibly important topic? It doesn’t take much. A few good books and you’re basically grounded. Science shouldn’t be immediately viewed with suspicion; the reason it’s ‘science’ is that it comes from a process that’s more rigorous than ones normal people use to come to conclusions.

But remember that for a lot of these folk you only need one book.

16 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:22:55pm

re: #6 erik_t

I really would love to know the percentage of publicly-held positions actually believed by each candidate.

Pretty sure Bachmann is the heavy favorite as the betting opens.

Yeah I think Bachmann’s a true believer in most of the wacky things she says.

17 darthstar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:23:31pm

Yet another Republican who pays dudes to fuck him...this one a mayor.

18 blueraven  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:23:55pm

When you speak to a group like the Heritage Foundation, you have to adopt their position. There is no dissent allowed in the republican party.

19 darthstar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:24:27pm

re: #13 Charles

In other ridiculous news, Pamela Geller is suing the government to try to force them into granting a trademark to her hate group Stop the Islamization of America. Her attorney is raving racist David Yerushalmi.

Isn’t “hate group” enough recognition?

20 darthstar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:25:58pm

re: #18 blueraven

When you speak to a group like the Heritage Foundation, you have to adopt their position. There is no dissent allowed in the republican party.

It’s about time conservatives started warming up to him, but really…at what cost? Huntsman is better off just seeing his candidacy through to its inevitable and early end rather than selling out to people like the Heritage Foundation.

21 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:27:04pm

re: #17 darthstar

Yet another Republican who pays dudes to fuck him...this one a mayor.

They really need to drop the whole anti gay thing. These guys and I can’t speak for Myers specifically here get elected pandering to anti gay bigotry and then alot of them go out and fuck other dudes. Just drop the whole we’re more moral than you crap, Republicans.

22 theheat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:27:08pm

The anti-science, anti-environment position has consumed the GOP, and has proven to be nearly impossible to kill. It’s painfully evident they’ll adopt any reasoning to appeal to their base of regressive fundamentalist dumbasses. And once they have the opportunity, and they get the votes, they can fuck all of us dry.

23 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:27:37pm

Hey Jon, I know Romney makes looking like a spineless jellyfish look appealing, but trust us, it’s not going to win you ‘16.

24 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:29:36pm

re: #20 darthstar

It’s about time conservatives started warming up to him, but really…at what cost? Huntsman is better off just seeing his candidacy through to its inevitable and early end rather than selling out to people like the Heritage Foundation.

Just recently one of our resident Conservatives insisted that Huntsman was too moderate, and not ‘conservative’ enough, yet could not provide a single example of him being too moderate.

Modern American Conservatism is not a reality-based doctrine. He could deny climate science, deny evolution, spew hate at liberals, demand the return of slavery and the secession of the South, and he will always be ‘too moderate’ until a demagogue proclaims him otherwise.

25 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:30:48pm

re: #21 HappyWarrior

Just drop the whole we’re more moral than you crap, Republicans.

Jesus and Free Enterprise are the pillars of the modern GOP, they cannot drop them or the entire edifice would crumble.

26 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:31:06pm

re: #13 Charles

They can’t see that the group isn’t entitled to a trademark because they’re racists pursuing a xenophobic agenda, but that’s not surprising.

I’m surprised that the PTO didn’t reject the trademark because it’s suspiciously similar to the iconic LOVE, including the askew I in the place where the sculpture has an askew O.

Moreover, her brief as posted on the site claims that the examiner cherry-picked the usage of Islamization on the website in rejecting the claims, except that she’s quite consistent in how Islamization is used (in its most xenophobic context). No cherry picking was necessary. Her usage is quite clear.

*facepalm*

27 theheat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:31:33pm

re: #3 leftynyc

Huntsman abandoned his more principled stance on AGW and environmental issues months and months ago, when he said he believes in it, but “now” (read: never) wasn’t the time to do anything about it. No, he wanted to wait until the economy recovered, and clean water went the way of the dinosaur. Maybe then. Maybe.

Kinda hard to sell that shit when every co-candidate wants to get rid of the EPA and says climate change is a liberal plot.

28 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:31:49pm

Wingnuts confuse non-establishment clause with atheism

Mefferd: As we were talking about atheism being the de facto official religion with all of this, do you know if there’ve been any lawsuits dealing with the establishment of religion with atheism? This issue of saying, hey by not allowing this, by default the state really seems to be embracing atheism?

Knight: No but that sounds like a good lawsuit to me. I think Christians and others who believe in religious freedom in this country ought to be more aggressive, and that kind of strategy Janet, that’s a great idea.

29 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:33:07pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

Huntsman knows better than this. Damnit dude, they’re not going to vote for you anyhow. At least try to have some integrity and nads.

My thoughts exactly.

Jesus, Jon. You’re better than this.

30 theheat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:34:11pm

re: #29 Romantic Heretic

Sorry, but if he’ll pull a stunt like this with the Heritage Foundation, he isn’t better than this. This is the “this” he is.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:34:20pm

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wingnuts confuse non-establishment clause with atheism

“Not permitting us to establish Christianity as a state religion, which would be in violation of the Bill of Rights, is effectively establishing atheism as a state religion, which is in violation of the Bill of Rights. So we’re gonna sue.”

Am I getting that right?

32 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:35:04pm

Perry equates gay rights with a war on faith

“This administration’s war on traditional American values must stop.

“I have proposed a foreign aid budget that starts at zero. From that zero baseline, we will consider aid requests based solely on America’s national security interests.

“But there is a troubling trend here beyond the national security nonsense inherent in this silly idea. This is just the most recent example of an administration at war with people of faith in this country. Investing tax dollars promoting a lifestyle many Americas of faith find so deeply objectionable is wrong.

“President Obama has again mistaken America’s tolerance for different lifestyles with an endorsement of those lifestyles. I will not make that mistake.”

33 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:35:09pm

re: #29 Romantic Heretic

My thoughts exactly.

Jesus, Jon. You’re better than this.

Another giant panderer comes forth. Possibly the only panda species that is not endangered. I wonder if they take contributions in bamboo.

34 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:35:33pm

re: #29 Romantic Heretic

My thoughts exactly.

Jesus, Jon. You’re better than this.

Apparently not.

35 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:35:44pm

Huntsman seems to re: #19 darthstar

Isn’t “hate group” enough recognition?

You can’t trademark ‘hate group.’
/

36 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:36:04pm

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

“Not permitting us to establish Christianity as a state religion, which would be in violation of the Bill of Rights, is effectively establishing atheism as a state religion, which is in violation of the Bill of Rights. So we’re gonna sue.”

Am I getting that right?

Essentially. It’s roughly the same basis as claiming Darwinian evolution is a religion and thus should not get priority in science classes.

37 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:36:07pm

by the time a guy gets elected, he has no clue what he’s said to get there…elections are nothing but supreme bullshit, say anything to get in

38 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:36:21pm

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

“Not permitting us to establish Christianity as a state religion, which would be in violation of the Bill of Rights, is effectively establishing atheism as a state religion, which is in violation of the Bill of Rights. So we’re gonna sue.”

Am I getting that right?

Pretty much.

More evidence that Evangelicals are mentally deficient.

39 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:37:00pm

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

““President Obama has again mistaken America’s tolerance for different lifestyles with an endorsement of those lifestyles. I will not make that mistake.”

Replace “lifestyle” with “religion” and you have the essence of Separation of Church and State.

Antidisestablishmenarianism, anybody?

40 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:37:15pm

re: #21 HappyWarrior

Just drop the whole we’re more moral than you crap, Republicans.

What else have they got? They’ve abandoned nearly all of their core principles.

41 aagcobb  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:37:50pm

You can’t be a realist and have any chance of winning the Republican nomination for president. Either you buy the entire alternative worldview that climate change is a hoax, evolution is just a theory, tax cuts for the rich creates jobs, protecting the environment destroys jobs, the Constitution established a nation based on Christianity, a fertilized egg is a person, or you are a RINO.

42 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:38:27pm

re: #33 oaktree

Another giant panderer comes forth. Possibly the only panda species that is not endangered. I wonder if they take contributions in bamboo.

No, but they pay out in bamboozle.

43 recusancy  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:38:45pm

His money is from his dad’s chemical company. What did you expect?

44 Winny Spencer  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:39:29pm

The man is pure sleaze. Said it from day one of his pathetic campaign.

45 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:39:54pm

re: #43 recusancy

His money is from his dad’s chemical company. What did you expect?

some of my was from chemicals too….a long time ago tho

46 erik_t  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:40:08pm

re: #41 aagcobb

Will the crazy die down a little in 2016 and there is no Communist Muslim Kenyan Socialist Usurper to vote again?

47 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:41:11pm

re: #44 Winny Spencer

The man is pure sleaze. Said it from day one of his pathetic campaign.

Honestly that makes him different from Romney or Gingrich how. Both of them pander to this same crap too.

48 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:41:52pm

re: #47 HappyWarrior

Honestly that makes him different from Romney or Gingrich how. Both of them pander to this same crap too.

my pander is bigger than your pander!

49 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:42:36pm

Koch linked Conservative group: Kids Eating Rat Poison is an “Acceptable Risk”

GOP legislators in many states have given ALEC free reign to write anti-health care reform and anti-environment legislation. Now, ALEC is fighting to kill Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) rules limiting the sale of rat poisons that pose a serious health threat to children and the ecosystem.

A top representative for the ultra-conservative group said kids eating rat poison is an “acceptable risk” that does not justify government intervention:

“There are certain levels of acceptable risk in society,” says Todd M. Wynn, director of the ALEC Energy, Environment, and Agriculture Task Force, in an interview about the EPA rules with the Heartland Institute’s Heartlander website. “And parents play an important role by weighing the potential risks and benefits of using a product.”

“Unfortunately, EPA expands its reach into the American economy more and more each and every year,” Wynn said. “This year it will be d-Con, but next year another useful product will be burdened by additional regulations or banned outright from the market.” […]

50 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:43:07pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Koch linked Conservative group: Kids Eating Rat Poison is an “Acceptable Risk”

Anything for a profit. Greedy fucks.

51 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:43:10pm

re: #46 erik_t

Will the crazy die down a little in 2016 and there is no Communist Muslim Kenyan Socialist Usurper to vote again?

Assuming that the Democrats do not pick another Communist Muslim Socialist antichrist foreigner to represent them. And as far as I know, there not a one of them who does not fall into at least one of the above categories.

/

52 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:43:57pm

re: #46 erik_t

Will the crazy die down a little in 2016 and there is no Communist Muslim Kenyan Socialist Usurper to vote again?

No, they’re way too far gone now. It can’t be reversed any more than schizophrenia can reverse itself.

53 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:44:14pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Koch linked Conservative group: Kids Eating Rat Poison is an “Acceptable Risk”

keeps their blood thin tho, helps reduce heart failure….think positive dude

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:44:30pm

Check out the spin title on this story. He is speaking a very obvious truth. I don’t understand why folks don’t understand that he is stating an absolute fact.

Personally, I don’t think the American job market will ever look like it did twenty years ago.

Sad facts are sad.

55 recusancy  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:44:39pm

re: #44 Winny Spencer

The man is pure sleaze. Said it from day one of his pathetic campaign.

Which one is the non sleazy one?

56 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:44:46pm

A wingnut said to me, “Obama is in the pockets of Soros!” So I said, “All the GOP is in the pockets of the Koch’s!” He said “Who is Koch?” and then: “Well, I support Koch for standing up to Soros!”

//FAIL!

57 aagcobb  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:44:51pm

re: #46 erik_t

Will the crazy die down a little in 2016 and there is no Communist Muslim Kenyan Socialist Usurper to vote again?

There is a massive right-wing complex dedicated to amping up the crazy. The energy industry, Fox News and right wing talk shows and bloggers, and the Religious Right fear mongering about evolution, gays and muslims for contributions. It was there in the nineties during the Clinton era, but now its gone to eleventy.

58 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:44:54pm

re: #52 Romantic Heretic

No, they’re way too far gone now. It can’t be reversed any more than schizophrenia can reverse itself.

might have to kill it to save it?

59 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:45:13pm

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I have no problem with allowing adults to decide which risks are acceptable, as long as they are clearly availed of the risks and have some alternative.

But that does not apply to health risks to children or risks that are hidden or sheltered from responsibility for those who create them.

61 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:46:30pm

re: #60 darthstar

Need an abortion? Siri wants to help!

Image: 4ed94e414268f.jpg
Image: 4ed956c37b298.jpg

I thought Siri didn’t know nothin’ ‘bout no ‘borshuns

62 Winny Spencer  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:46:43pm

re: #55 recusancy

Which one is the non sleazy one?

Mittens. He’s a good man.

63 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:47:09pm

re: #60 darthstar

Need an abortion? Siri wants to help!

Image: 4ed94e414268f.jpg
Image: 4ed956c37b298.jpg

I guess Siri should be defunded since 99% of what she does is advocate abortion. Not intended to be a factual statement.

64 recusancy  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:47:17pm

re: #62 Winny Spencer

Mittens. He’s a good man.

lol

65 aagcobb  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:47:17pm

re: #62 Winny Spencer

Mittens. He’s a good man.

You forgot the sarc tag.

66 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:47:36pm

re: #62 Winny Spencer

Mittens. He’s a good man.

no he isn’t…he’s a Mormon

67 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:50:28pm

re: #62 Winny Spencer

Mittens. He’s a good man.

By a good man faithful to his wife I am sure but politically Mitt’s sleazy with the best and worst of them when it comes to political opportunism.

68 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:50:50pm

re: #58 albusteve

might have to kill it to save it?

Nah, it will die on its own. Eventually it will be so far gone it won’t be able to look after itself. It will pass away, drooling and raving in a pile of its own waste.

69 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:50:55pm

re: #62 Winny Spencer

Mittens. He’s a good man.

AmPad.

70 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:51:14pm

re: #67 HappyWarrior

By a good man faithful to his wife I am sure but politically Mitt’s sleazy with the best and worst of them when it comes to political opportunism.

beyond that, he’s a republican….spawn of Satan

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:51:29pm

It almost seems certain that if Romney does get the GOP nod, there will be a third-party “true conservative” movement led by people who would rather lose entirely than see him in office

72 Buck  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:51:29pm

re: #54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Check out the spin title on this story. He is speaking a very obvious truth. I don’t understand why folks don’t understand that he is stating an absolute fact.

Personally, I don’t think the American job market will ever look like it did twenty years ago.

Sad facts are sad.

So you don’t see any NEW jobs,,,, ones that were not even imagined all those years ago.

It is a bit like blaming the loss of jobs in the Buggy Whip sector on the invention of the car.

Yes, tellers and travel agents are in a shrinking job market. Can you really not think of any NEW jobs that have been created?

73 darthstar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:51:47pm

re: #62 Winny Spencer

Mittens. He’s a good man.

Didn’t you try to say something like this about Gingrich last week?

74 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:52:18pm

re: #72 Buck

So you don’t see any NEW jobs,,, ones that were not even imagined all those years ago.

It is a bit like blaming the loss of jobs in the Buggy Whip sector on the invention of the car.

Yes, tellers and travel agents are in a shrinking job market. Can you really not think of any NEW jobs that have been created?

Plenty of new jobs—in China.

75 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:52:24pm
76 aagcobb  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:52:34pm
77 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:52:51pm

believes there’s “more debate yet to play out” before we can be sure

i’m waiting for more convincing evidence before i believe this gop presidential field is for real

teh sciences iz not in!

78 Winny Spencer  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:52:56pm

re: #73 darthstar

Didn’t you try to say something like this about Gingrich last week?

No.

79 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:53:23pm

re: #70 albusteve

beyond that, he’s a republican…spawn of Satan

His political party is irrelevant to the fact that the guy has no principles but nice try

80 Buck  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:54:02pm

re: #74 Alouette

Plenty of new jobs—in China.

And that is the fault of the internet?

81 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:54:36pm

re: #72 Buck

It is a bit like blaming the loss of jobs in the Buggy Whip sector on the invention of the car.

I am so sick of that stupid “Buggy Whip” meme. 100 years ago there was no specialized “Buggy Whip” industry, there was just generic leather goods that made belts, boots, shoes…and buggy whips.

82 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:54:36pm

re: #79 HappyWarrior

His political party is irrelevant to the fact that the guy has no principles but nice try

it’s the local attitude…he’s a republican, Mormon from hell…and worse, an Eagles fan

83 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:55:20pm

re: #80 Buck

And that is the fault of the internet?

yes, Amazon in fact

84 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:55:33pm

re: #80 Buck

And that is the fault of the internet?

There is digital media jobs! Someone here…doesn’t have one.

85 Buck  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:55:43pm

re: #81 Alouette

I am so sick of that stupid “Buggy Whip” meme. 100 years ago there was no specialized “Buggy Whip” industry, there was just generic leather goods that made belts, boots, shoes…and buggy whips.

It was an example…. fine…. CRT televisions?, Chemical based film?

86 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:55:51pm

re: #72 Buck

The internet is also a reason why a company can still have it’s headquarters in Silicon Valley and employ thousands of people thousands of miles away. Five thousand miles away and can see all aspects of production in real time.

No, Buck, I don’t see it on the necessary scale. We can invent machines to replace people almost as fast as we can hire people.

I’d love to be wrong.

Please prove me wrong.

87 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:56:20pm

re: #72 Buck

So you don’t see any NEW jobs,,, ones that were not even imagined all those years ago.

It is a bit like blaming the loss of jobs in the Buggy Whip sector on the invention of the car.

Yes, tellers and travel agents are in a shrinking job market. Can you really not think of any NEW jobs that have been created?

we sure did create plenty of jobs selling mortgages

whoops

88 Winny Spencer  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:57:01pm

re: #73 darthstar

Didn’t you try to say something like this about Gingrich last week?

I never did and yet your comment gets updinged. Hilarious.

89 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:57:20pm

re: #85 Buck

It was an example… fine… CRT televisions?, Chemical based film?

Electronics companies that made CRT TV’s have retooled to flatscreens, in fact they developed the flatscreens.

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:57:52pm

re: #82 albusteve

Oh shit!! An Eagles fan? Are you serious?

92 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:58:53pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh shit!! An Eagles fan? Are you serious?

really…can anything be worse?

93 recusancy  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 12:59:00pm

re: #88 Winny Spencer

I never did and yet your comment gets updinged. Hilarious.

Why is Huntsman sleazy but not Mittens? He’s changed his position on everything, often more than once and only days or weeks apart.

94 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:00:08pm

re: #92 albusteve

really…can anything be worse?

Yankees fan I believe…

95 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:00:17pm

re: #93 recusancy

We are all just disappointed because up to now Huntsman was the only candidate we might have considered consistent and serious

96 Winny Spencer  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:00:23pm

Everyone changes their positions on issues occasionally. Mittens is no different in that regard. I ultimately believe his heart is in the right place.

97 recusancy  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:00:46pm

re: #91 Lidane

GOP Strategists: Lay Off Obama, People Feel Sorry For Him

They want to call Obama a flip flopper? Holy projection!

98 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:01:16pm

re: #94 oaktree

Yankees fan I believe…

Damnit man. But yeah I don’t hate the Eagles that much though yeah their fans are annoying.

99 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:01:40pm

re: #93 recusancy

Why is Huntsman sleazy but not Mittens? He’s changed his position on everything, often more than once and only days or weeks apart.

we need a Sleazy Scale….invent one for us

100 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:02:40pm

re: #98 HappyWarrior

Damnit man. But yeah I don’t hate the Eagles that much though yeah their fans are annoying.

I know all about Eagles fans and the associated sports radio and pundits. I live in Philadelphia.

101 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:03:11pm

re: #97 recusancy

They want to call Obama a flip flopper? Holy projection!

Not only that, but they want to even if though they support the positions that he’s taken, such as continuing the “War on Terror.”

102 nines09  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:03:24pm

Jon said he’s only following orders. One more bought. Money talks, truth walks.

103 Ming  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:03:37pm

Google: Arctic military “global warming”

The US, Russian, and Chinese military are making moves in the Arctic, in anticipation of warmer temperatures.

From [Link: www.grist.org…]

“How do you think the Sarahs Palin of the world would react if we told them global warming is leading to an increased Russian military presence in the Arctic? I mean, on the one hand, they don’t think climate change is a genuine concern. On the other hand, they probably still believe that communism is a real and immediate threat to the American way of life. Now the real threat they think is imaginary is contributing to the imaginary threat they think is real. How do you know who to believe??”

My money is that they forget all about the threat of communism. To them, the scientists who study global warming are the enemy.

104 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:03:42pm

re: #100 oaktree

I know all about Eagles fans and the associated sports radio and pundits. I live in Philadelphia.

they should all be jailed and used as DNA experiment subjects…I hate those guys

105 Buck  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:04:12pm

re: #89 Alouette

Electronics companies that made CRT TV’s have retooled to flatscreens, in fact they developed the flatscreens.

That actually makes my point.

If you only counts the jobs lost, and don’t count the new jobs created (when factories and businesses retooled or changed their business), you get a distorted picture.

106 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:04:19pm

re: #72 Buck

So you don’t see any NEW jobs,,, ones that were not even imagined all those years ago.

It is a bit like blaming the loss of jobs in the Buggy Whip sector on the invention of the car.

Yes, tellers and travel agents are in a shrinking job market. Can you really not think of any NEW jobs that have been created?

there is absolutely nothing that guarantees that there will be enough jobs for everybody who wants one, and it seems pretty likely that the majority jobs to be available for most people in this country in the future will be low paid service jobs

so, in regard to - Can you really not think of any NEW jobs that have been created? - uh, what new jobs did you have in mind that you can name for us right now?

107 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:05:01pm

re: #104 albusteve

they should all be jailed and used as DNA experiment subjects…I hate those guys

Meh Eagles have 0 SBs and your Boys have an infinite amount more and they crashed big time this year. Best thing to do with people like that is laugh and shine em on.

108 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:05:07pm

re: #104 albusteve

they should all be jailed and used as DNA experiment subjects…I hate those guys

Those who broadcast sports radio, or those who call in?

109 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:05:15pm

re: #105 Buck

That actually makes my point.

If you only counts the jobs lost, and don’t count the new jobs created (when factories and businesses retooled or changed their business), you get a distorted picture.

How do you ‘retool’ to deal with non existent wages and worker protections in China?
Why do you think so much of the stuff we buy is made there?

110 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:05:49pm

re: #105 Buck

the problem being they also mostly sent those jobs to mexico or china :p

111 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:06:12pm

re: #62 Winny Spencer

Mittens. He’s a good man.

Is this “good” in the same sense as the “decent” you claimed earlier?

112 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:06:25pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

How do you ‘retool’ to deal with non existent wages and worker protections in China?
Why do you think so much of the stuff we buy is made there?

hell they could be making htat stuff in US Territories that also have absolutely no worker protection or oversight!

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:06:35pm

re: #100 oaktree

I know all about Eagles fans and the associated sports radio and pundits. I live in Philadelphia.

Philadelphia fan: Get off the damn field! You suck! Your whole family sucks! Booo!
Visiting fan: Hey! Let the little girl finish the Anthem.

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:06:54pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

How do you ‘retool’ to deal with non existent wages and worker protections in China?
Why do you think so much of the stuff we buy is made there?

I have no problem with competing on wages, that is our incentive to work more efficiently.

I have a big problem competing on safety and environmental standards, though. Not only are we shooting ourselves in the foot and killing jobs, but we are giving those other countires no incentive to change anything.

115 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:06:55pm

re: #108 oaktree

Those who broadcast sports radio, or those who call in?

Professional athletes is an oxymoron describing actual morons.

116 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:07:16pm

man you know its a bad scene when even Dilbert is in on the act:

Image: 144931.strip.gif

117 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:07:33pm

when the population exceeds available jobs…we might consider eating the useless fuckers…manburger…maybe some green chile

118 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:08:04pm

re: #117 albusteve

when the population exceeds available jobs…we might consider eating the useless fuckers…manburger…maybe some green chile

soylent green technology?

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:08:29pm

re: #117 albusteve

MANWICH

120 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:08:42pm

re: #114 ralphieboy

umm you realize right that ‘competing on wages’ isn’t even remotely in the equation right?

We can’t match those costs with illegal immigrant slave labor here.

121 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:08:45pm

re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Philadelphia fan: Get off the damn field! You suck! Your whole family sucks! Booo!
Visiting fan: Hey, let the little girl finish the Anthem.

Oh that city of not so brotherly love.

122 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:08:46pm

re: #119 WindUpBird

MANWICH

there you have it

123 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:09:11pm

“Excuse me, I’d like two orders of the chow mein, some General Tso’s Chicken, and two orders of the Human Beef.”

124 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:09:12pm

re: #117 albusteve

when the population exceeds available jobs…we might consider eating the useless fuckers…manburger…maybe some green chile

Sticking point of course is who gets to decide what the definition of “useless” is and how to apply it to the population. And then get agreement on the definition and system to apply your solution.

125 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:09:32pm

re: #120 windsagio

umm you realize right that ‘competing on wages’ isn’t even remotely in the equation right?

We can’t match those costs with illegal immigrant slave labor here.

Fucking minimum wage is holding us back!
/

126 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:10:03pm

re: #124 oaktree

2 easy dystopian solutions:

1) Jaywalkers
2) People over the age of 35.

127 Buck  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:11:30pm

re: #106 engineer dog

there is absolutely nothing that guarantees that there will be enough jobs for everybody who wants one, and it seems pretty likely that the majority jobs to be available for most people in this country in the future will be low paid service jobs

so, in regard to - Can you really not think of any NEW jobs that have been created? - uh, what new jobs did you have in mind that you can name for us right now?

Of course, utopia (enough jobs for everybody who wants one) is a dream.

As if Bank Tellers were not low paid service jobs.

No matter what jobs I name, you will simply say they are not good enough.
People build the ATMs, and people support them. Big box stores like Wal Mart employ many more people today than they did before ATMs.

This increase in unemployment didn’t start with the internet and ATMs.

128 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:11:46pm

it was just a joke folks, I would never even consider putting green chile on my manburger

129 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:11:55pm

re: #126 windsagio

2 easy dystopian solutions:

1) Jaywalkers
2) People over the age of 35.

Improper use of turn signals = Summary Execution.

130 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:12:10pm

re: #128 albusteve

it was just a joke folks, I would never even consider putting green chile on my manburger

You scared me there for a second.

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:12:18pm

re: #126 windsagio

2 easy dystopian solutions:

1) Jaywalkers
2) People over the age of 35.

nobody needs to die, we just make people pedal for 8 hours a day for five bucks an hour to power the Inverted Monolith

what does it do?


NOBODY KNOWS

132 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:12:38pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Improper use of turn signals = Summary Execution.

There goes half the world.
Brilliant!

133 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:12:59pm

re: #131 WindUpBird

nobody needs to die, we just make people pedal for 8 hours a day for five bucks an hour to power the Inverted Monolith

what does it do?

NOBODY KNOWS

PEDAL POWER!

134 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:13:11pm

re: #105 Buck

That actually makes my point.

If you only counts the jobs lost, and don’t count the new jobs created (when factories and businesses retooled or changed their business), you get a distorted picture.

buck - what new job categories that pay a decent salary are being created in this country today?

135 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:13:14pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

whats good about that one is you start slow.

Murderers? Part out their organs for donation, the rest goes into the vats.

Then as time goes on, nobody would mind adding rapists to the mix right?

Then thieves… useless blots on society.

For once the slippery slope is useful :D

136 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:13:22pm

re: #120 windsagio

umm you realize right that ‘competing on wages’ isn’t even remotely in the equation right?

We can’t match those costs with illegal immigrant slave labor here.

As long as you are talking about idiot jobs that involve pushing a button when a colored light comes on, then the labor component is fairly irrelevant and transferrable.

If you are talking about jobs that involve an educated, well-trained, motivated workforce, then…well, I guess you are right: we are in trouble because that is dying out here.

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:13:37pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

PEDAL POWER!

everything will be pedal power soon!

138 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:13:42pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Improper use of turn signals = Summary Execution.

And to save on the cost of trials, we’ll create a new law enforcement agency, who will be given the power to arrest, try, and sentence criminals on the spot. Any ideas for what we should call them?

/

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:14:07pm

re: #134 engineer dog

buck - what new job categories that pay a decent salary are being created in this country today?

Republican Think Tank Operative

Extreme Pornographer

140 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:14:38pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Improper use of turn signals = Summary Execution.

Just design cars to explode if the turn signal is engaged and the car does not then in the direction indicated…

141 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:15:01pm

re: #123 WindUpBird

“Excuse me, I’d like two orders of the chow mein, some General Tso’s Chicken, and two orders of the Human Beef.”

Reminds me of a story by Max Andersson (NSFW):

Image: Container-2.jpg

142 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:15:08pm

re: #136 ralphieboy

I’m charmed you used George Jetson’s job as an example :p

The problem is that we’re funding the exploitation of people with no options.

143 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:15:29pm

re: #120 windsagio

umm you realize right that ‘competing on wages’ isn’t even remotely in the equation right?

We can’t match those costs with illegal immigrant slave labor here.

“A journey of a thousand begins with a single step.” First we abolish the minimum wage and food giveaways, creating an incentive for child labor. We substitute superstition for education to mitigate competition from that sector. By the time the second generation of brain-damaged illiterates comes along, we will be able to compete in the slave wage sector and America will be restored to its Fundamentalist founding principles.

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:16:15pm

other growth industries:


tent revival preacher

roadkill chef

145 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:16:24pm

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And to save on the cost of trials, we’ll create a new law enforcement agency, who will be given the power to arrest, try, and sentence criminals on the spot. Any ideas for what we should call them?

/

146 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:16:30pm

re: #137 WindUpBird

everything will be pedal power soon!

I will always be employed (at below minimum wage as long as I’m self employed…)!!

147 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:16:58pm
148 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:17:02pm

re: #127 Buck

Of course, utopia (enough jobs for everybody who wants one) is a dream.

As if Bank Tellers were not low paid service jobs.

No matter what jobs I name, you will simply say they are not good enough.
People build the ATMs, and people support them. Big box stores like Wal Mart employ many more people today than they did before ATMs.

This increase in unemployment didn’t start with the internet and ATMs.

well, personally i am not blaming it all on the internet

i blame it more on shipping all the manufacturing jobs overseas

Big box stores like Wal Mart employ many more people today than they did before

yeah, that’s exactly the point -

seems to me that the future of employment in the united states will be 1% millionaires and 9% professionals being waited on by 90% service workers

where do you shake out in that universe, buck?

149 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:17:12pm

re: #144 WindUpBird

other growth industries:

tent revival preacher

roadkill chef

bicycle thief.
Industrial pediatrician.

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:17:18pm

re: #146 wrenchwench

I will always be employed (at below minimum wage as long as I’m self employed…)!!

Really, we’re all going to be looking at you for advice when gas is fifteen bucks a gallon :D

151 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:17:27pm

the obvious solution is to simply abolish all jobs…they are such a headache

152 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:17:33pm

re: #127 Buck

Buck, it’s really weird that you’re just attempting to argue against reality. Automation replaces workers. It may, or may no, open up new jobs. It depends on how the capital is used. It may be used to invest in some new technology and industry here, or it might be used to hire workers in China, or to deal in securities, or something else.

Automation isn’t a bad thing, but it does mean that in the automated areas, capital gains a huge advantage over labor. This is part of the reason the divide between the ultra-rich in this country is growing so quickly; entire chemical plants can be run by just a few people, and that plant can make hundreds of millions a year. That might result in lower prices on the final product, but that’s not a certainty; it’s what the market will bear.

So, as the industry becomes more and more automated, the available jobs skew more and more to the highly-skilled, highly-compensated end and the low-paying service jobs.

153 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:17:51pm

re: #150 WindUpBird

Really, we’re all going to be looking at you for advice when gas is fifteen bucks a gallon :D

I can’t wait!

154 Dom  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:17:59pm

Stupid bastard. Did he just decide to guess the location of East Anglia? The name’s a clue.

155 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:18:15pm

re: #139 WindUpBird

Republican Think Tank Operative

Extreme Pornographer

heh - i was gonna say!

how about Imaginary Deceptive Financial Instrument Inventor

156 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:18:28pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Improper use of turn signals = Summary Execution.

Well it appears that most drivers already consider using turn signals as giving information to the enemy.

157 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:18:35pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Buck, it’s really weird that you’re just attempting to argue against reality.

Heh.

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:18:44pm

re: #153 wrenchwench

I can’t wait!

The dark future’s a comin! Turn on Max Headroom!

159 blueraven  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:19:07pm

re: #80 Buck

And that is the fault of the internet?

I see you just read the idiotic title. Why am I not surprised?

160 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:19:31pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

The dark future’s a comin! Turn on Max Headroom!

I love Max Headroom!

161 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:19:47pm

re: #156 oaktree

Well it appears that most drivers already consider using turn signals as giving information to the enemy.

Not in portland!

We drive nice here. Not WELL, but nice. Which elicits complaints from my friends who grew up in the bay that we all drive like old ladies :D

162 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:19:55pm

re: #142 windsagio

I’m charmed you used George Jetson’s job as an example :p

The problem is that we’re funding the exploitation of people with no options.

“exploited people with no options” is the definition of the ideal employee on the modern job market

163 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:20:06pm

re: #136 ralphieboy

As long as you are talking about idiot jobs that involve pushing a button when a colored light comes on, then the labor component is fairly irrelevant and transferrable.

If you are talking about jobs that involve an educated, well-trained, motivated workforce, then…well, I guess you are right: we are in trouble because that is dying out here.

Didn’t they have chickens trained to do quality control on small parts? And they had an incentive to avoid the soup pot in the cafeteria!

164 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:20:54pm

re: #160 wrenchwench

I love Max Headroom!

20 MINUTES INTO THE FUTURE

it’s one of my favorite things :D

165 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:21:18pm

re: #161 WindUpBird

Not in portland!

We drive nice here. Not WELL, but nice. Which elicits complaints from my friends who grew up in the bay that we all drive like old ladies :D

same in ABQ….turn signal fanatics, even in parking lots…they say hello with turn signals

166 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:21:38pm

re: #162 ralphieboy

“exploited people with no options” is the definition of the ideal employee on the modern job market

Say what you like about feudalism, but the unemployment rates were low.//

167 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:22:16pm

re: #149 Shiplord Kirel

bicycle thief.
Industrial pediatrician.

And society’s hero will be Bicycle Repairman!

168 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:22:39pm

We drift back to a theme that haunts these threads: that work has an innate social value that goes beyond the mere exchange of labor for money.

Which is why we have a minimum wage and labor unions. For the time being at least….

The Free Market is a good way of balancing supply and demand, but it does nothing to address these issues.

169 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:23:06pm

re: #154 Dom

Stupid bastard. Did he just decide to guess the location of East Anglia? The name’s a clue.

UK map

This would not have happened in the 50s. Millions of GIs had been to East Anglia,—-the place is covered with former US facilities (especially the bomber bases of the 8th air force)- and any politician who didn’t know this would be laughed off the podium.

170 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:23:06pm

re: #155 engineer dog

heh - i was gonna say!

how about Imaginary Deceptive Financial Instrument Inventor

here’s a couple more:


Ronin

Freelance Combat Ambulance Driver

Guitar-wielding Herald of End Times

171 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:23:51pm

re: #161 WindUpBird

Not in portland!

We drive nice here. Not WELL, but nice. Which elicits complaints from my friends who grew up in the bay that we all drive like old ladies :D

yo, F that. “Passing people turning left on the right Curb” bastards, nice my ass.

172 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:24:03pm

re: #164 WindUpBird

20 MINUTES INTO THE FUTURE

it’s one of my favorite things :D

“The TV has an off switch? She’ll get years for that!”

173 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:24:06pm

re: #162 ralphieboy

“exploited people with no options” is the definition of the ideal employee on the modern job market

and we already have republican office holders getting on tv and saying “all you unemployed middle managers and factory workers should just take the low paid service jobs and shut up already!”

i wanna show up at gingrich rallies with a gruel bowl saying “please sir, can i have some more?”

174 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:24:22pm

morticians will make a mint when we all drown

175 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:24:22pm

re: #166 The Ghost of a Flea

Say what you like about feudalism, but the unemployment rates were low.//

because the unemployed died of starvation. Sort of like the Free Market, where inefficient coprorations go out of business…

176 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:24:43pm

re: #168 ralphieboy

There’s the concept of pride in your work, too, and making a product that’s something more than just the ideal price point for your market. Making a product you’re proud of. Not just knocking of a run of a ten million shitty pliers with the crappiest metal you can with workers laboring in the worst conditions.

177 Achilles Tang  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:25:12pm

re: #89 Alouette

Electronics companies that made CRT TV’s have retooled to flatscreens, in fact they developed the flatscreens.

Perhaps I miss a point here, but the one I make is that even CRT TVs have not been made in the USA for a generation at least. As an example it is irrelevant to the US economy, except as a negative to trade.

178 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:25:31pm

re: #161 WindUpBird

Not in portland!

We drive nice here. Not WELL, but nice. Which elicits complaints from my friends who grew up in the bay that we all drive like old ladies :D

I got my training (beyond initial license testing) in the Inner and Outer Loop of D.C. Land of 65 mph bumper-to-bumper traffic. Pretty much dog-eat-dog and “nice” drivers are run off the roads.

179 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:25:45pm

re: #176 Obdicut

Also not putting poison in your products to boost the protein count, or because that kind of paint is cheaper.

That’s also a kind of pride in your work :D

180 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:26:53pm

re: #178 oaktree

I got my training (beyond initial license testing) in the Inner and Outer Loop of D.C. Land of 65 mph bumper-to-bumper traffic. Pretty much dog-eat-dog and “nice” drivers are run off the roads.

yeah I’m never leaving Portland :D


I did get some good combat driving training in rush hour in downtown seattle in the 90’s, no DC I’m sure, but it made me pretty sharp

181 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:27:16pm

re: #166 The Ghost of a Flea

Say what you like about feudalism, but the unemployment rates were low.//

The plague had something to do with rising wages in the Middle Ages. Kill off a large chunk (30-60%) of the workforce and suddenly employers are willing to pay more.

182 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:27:54pm

re: #179 windsagio

Also not putting poison in your products to boost the protein count, or because that kind of paint is cheaper.

That’s also a kind of pride in your work :D

being proud of all the people you fucked over!

sounds like…


our banking system!

oh by the way, Greece is having a run on its banks, can’t wait until it happens here

183 windsagio  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:28:32pm

re: #182 WindUpBird

I feel bad for the Eurozone at this point >>

184 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:28:39pm

re: #169 Shiplord Kirel

UK map

This would not have happened in the 50s. Millions of GIs had been to East Anglia,—-the place is covered with former US facilities (especially the bomber bases of the 8th air force)- and any politician who didn’t know this would be laughed off the podium.

I know it from that and from RPGs where the area appears to be heavily haunted by various types of ghostly black dogs.

185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:28:41pm

re: #181 oaktree

The plague had something to do with rising wages in the Middle Ages. Kill off a large chunk (30-60%) of the workforce and suddenly employers are willing to pay more.

“The lucrative pustule industry skyrocketed in Q3, leading to new hirings across all ichor and plague sectors…”

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:29:02pm

re: #183 windsagio

I feel bad for the Eurozone at this point >>

I can’t decide whether to feel bad yet, because I don’t know how much worse it’s going to get

187 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:29:06pm

re: #178 oaktree

I got my training (beyond initial license testing) in the Inner and Outer Loop of D.C. Land of 65 mph bumper-to-bumper traffic. Pretty much dog-eat-dog and “nice” drivers are run off the roads.

I have been many places…I have never seen such a clusterfuck as the DC Beltway

188 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:30:32pm

re: #187 albusteve

I have been many places…I have never seen such a clusterfuck as the DC Beltway

I think if I had to drive in DC, I’d just buy a 1976 Power Wagon with I-beams for bumpers

189 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:31:42pm

re: #188 WindUpBird

I think if I had to drive in DC, I’d just buy a 1976 Power Wagon with I-beams for bumpers

I’ve joked about getting a “DC Beltway Veteran” bumper sticker made.

190 albusteve  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:33:51pm

re: #188 WindUpBird

I think if I had to drive in DC, I’d just buy a 1976 Power Wagon with I-beams for bumpers

those people are clinically insane…I have stories, but you nailed it

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:41:02pm

re: #166 The Ghost of a Flea

Say what you like about feudalism, but the unemployment rates were low.//

Not a joke, actually. When English lords turned to mass sheepherding to make money off wool production, they kicked their serfs off the land to turn it into pasture, instead of small farming.

The repercussions rolled around for a good long time.

192 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 1:57:53pm

re: #134 engineer dog

buck - what new job categories that pay a decent salary are being created in this country today?

Yeah, ask four more times then give up.
/

193 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 2:01:04pm

re: #170 WindUpBird

Guitar-wielding Herald of End Times

I’m in for that one.

194 andres  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 5:52:36pm

I know I’m late for this thread, but I just wanted to add that, there goes the last sane Republican Presidential Candidate.

195 CriticalDragon1177  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:53:07pm

Charles Johnson,

I really hate the science denial in the Republican party. I really wish they would just stop denying climate science along with evolution.

196 RIRedinPA  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:48:28am

Scratch another one off the list.


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