Rick Perry: Human Rights for Gays ‘Not in America’s Interests’

‘Not worth a dime of taxpayers’ money’
Wingnuts • Views: 25,390

According to Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry, Americans shouldn’t care about human rights for gays.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry said today that using foreign aid to combat human rights abuses against homosexuals in foreign countries is “not in America’s interests” and attacked President Obama’s decision to require U.S. agencies operating abroad to promote equal rights for gays as part of the administration’s “war on traditional American values.”

“Just when you thought Barack Obama couldn’t get any more out of touch with America’s values, AP reports his administration wants to make foreign aid decisions based on gay rights. This administration’s war on traditional American values must stop,” Perry said in the statement. “Promoting special rights for gays in foreign countries is not in America’s interests and not worth a dime of taxpayers’ money.”

Perry moved beyond the national security implications of the decision and honed in on what he deemed to be an attack on “traditional American values.”

“But there is a troubling trend here beyond the national security nonsense inherent in this silly idea,” he said. “This is just the most recent example of an administration at war with people of faith in this country. Investing tax dollars promoting a lifestyle many [Americans] of faith find so deeply objectionable is wrong. President Obama has again mistaken America’s tolerance for different lifestyles with an endorsement of those lifestyles. I will not make that mistake.”

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478 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:37:45pm

"I will not make that mistake.” It will be an easy mistake for you to avoid Perry as you will never be in a position to actively represent America's government to those abroad.

2 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:38:50pm

Special rights are not not being abused. Human rights abuses are traditionally understood to be abuse of what Americans fundamentally consider to be our inalienable rights.

I have a document around here somewhere spelling out what those are. It starts "When in the course..." Let me see if I can find it.

3 Alexzander  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:39:48pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

"I will not make that mistake.” It will be an easy mistake for you to avoid Perry as you will never be in a position to actively represent America's government to those abroad.

I actually think Perry had a better shot than a lot of people are giving him credit for. After Romney he is the next obvious establishment candidate with huge financial backing. I suspect that Gingrich still has time to flame out, leaving space for round two of Perry.

4 jaunte  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:40:00pm

Perry flailing, attempts simple religio-gaybash maneuver in vain effort to remain relevant.

5 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:42:27pm

Prick Perry is a dumb, stupid confederate.

6 danhenry1  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:42:33pm

You can not speak with a person like this. It is a total waste of a good breath.

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:42:49pm

Using foreign aid money to prevent women from having abortions, even at the cost of their lives, is, of course, an excellent use of our tax dollars.

8 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:43:02pm

Because all the gays are rent boys and

those

people don't need our help or sympathy?

I can't wait 'til he get's caught with his own scandal.

9 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:43:35pm
“Promoting special rights for gays in foreign countries ..."

Not being lynched is now a special right. Stay classy GOP.

10 Alexzander  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:44:00pm

re: #8 ggt

Because all the gays are rent boys and

people don't need our help or sympathy?

I can't wait 'til he get's caught with his own scandal.

Well, the long time rumor in Texas political circles is that Perry is in fact gay.

11 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:44:19pm

So, when are we going to get to see the evidence of Rick Perry walking the Apalachian trail?

12 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:44:50pm

re: #10 Alexzander

Well, the long time rumor in Texas political circles is that Perry is in fact gay.

He reeks of insecurity.

13 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:45:30pm

How is everyone this evening?

14 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:45:47pm

re: #10 Alexzander

Well, the long time rumor in Texas political circles is that Perry is in fact gay.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Self-loathing is the glue that binds conservatives together.

15 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:46:10pm

re: #9 goddamnedfrank

Not being lynched is now a special right. Stay classy GOP.

Modern GOP = brain-damaged bastard-child of Zombie Ayn Rand and Jerry Falwell.

16 danhenry1  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:46:41pm

Next he will say that we shouldn't be anywhere where we are trying to improve the rights and standing of women, beecause that is 'not in Americas' interest. Or we should keep supporting the mining of Gold with child slaves, because that is in Americas' interest.. Scary thoughts

17 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:46:47pm

I truly am growing tired of "traditional values" being used as an excuse to legitimize, or at least turn a blind eye to, the treatment of gays as second-class citizens or worse. The phrase has been used to excuse so much darkness and hatred in America's history to ever be used by anybody who should be within walking distance of the Oval Office.

18 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:47:02pm

re: #13 ggt

Checking out geek crafts on cnn.com. How on earth could Doctor Who scarves not have made it?

19 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:47:43pm

When SOS Clinton was presenting this position today, NPR reported that the countries with bad LGTG attitudes sat there listening to her "stony faced".

20 palomino  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:48:23pm

It's not as if the Obama admin. is demanding that other countries adopt SSM or even civil unions. The objection we have is to countries that criminalize homosexuality and enforce harsh punishments against it, including hard prison time and occasionally the death penalty.

21 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:48:35pm

re: #18 EmmmieG

Checking out geek crafts on cnn.com. How on earth could Doctor Who scarves not have made it?

You'll just have to make your own. Photoshop or craft paint?

22 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:49:08pm

re: #18 EmmmieG

Fugly scarves?

23 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:49:14pm

"American Interests" is a term usually used in reference to security issues--no?

How does that apply to human rights?

in Rick's mind anyway.

24 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:49:42pm

re: #21 ggt

You'll just have to make your own. Photoshop or craft paint?

I would have to learn to knit first. I wonder if I should submit a picture of the two bookends I used felt and fake fur to make into Han Solo and Chewbacca?

Oof. Just looked them. I should take up dusting as a hobby.

25 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:50:22pm

fucking texas klansmen

26 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:51:10pm

re: #24 EmmmieG

I would have to learn to knit first. I wonder if I should submit a picture of the two bookends I used felt and fake fur to make into Han Solo and Chewbacca?

Oof. Just looked them. I should take up dusting as a hobby.

Knitting isn't very hard. Crochet is easier. But with either skill, a scarf would be the best starter project.

I thought you meant like a bandana-type scarf.

27 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:51:27pm

True, James, I doubt Rick Perry will be the next President. Meanwhile, if the U.S. based its foreign on Gay Acceptance v. non-Gay Acceptance, we would withhold $$ from every gov't from Morocco to Pakistan (geographically speaking), bounded North to South by Turkey & Somalia (or Nigeria). Should we let those poor people go w/o water and electricity? Doctors w/o borders? HIV countermeasures? Condoms?

28 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:51:39pm

Perfectly in line with his earlier statements.

"you don’t have to go to church every Sunday to know something is wrong in America where gays can openly serve in the military but our children can’t pray in school."

The man is a ignorant pig who think the Free world consists only of dim witted white Christians. He's a fucking embarrassment.

29 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:52:12pm

re: #20 palomino

It's not as if the Obama admin. is demanding that other countries adopt SSM or even civil unions. The objection we have is to countries that criminalize homosexuality and enforce harsh punishments against it, including hard prison time and occasionally the death penalty.

Yes, and Perry is the guy who's reaction to Lawrence v. Texas was "nine oligarchs in robes." He absolutely thinks homosexuality should be criminalized, possibly because the threat of incarceration is the only thing keeping him from applying for a line of credit at rentboy.com.

30 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:52:55pm

re: #26 ggt

Knitting isn't very hard. Crochet is easier. But with either skill, a scarf would be the best starter project.

I thought you meant like a bandana-type scarf.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The Scarf.

31 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:53:07pm

re: #17 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I truly am growing tired of "traditional values" being used as an excuse to legitimize, or at least turn a blind eye to, the treatment of gays as second-class citizens or worse. The phrase has been used to excuse so much darkness and hatred in America's history to ever be used by anybody who should be within walking distance of the Oval Office.


traditional values.

32 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:53:34pm

That is, "if the U.S. based its foreign [policy] on Gay Acceptance..."

PIMF

33 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:53:56pm

re: #30 EmmmieG

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The Scarf.

would be a great first project!

You could buy a knitting machine . . .

34 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:54:26pm

re: #31 WindUpBird


traditional values.

Oh fuck, I needed a warning for that.

35 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:55:17pm

more texas traditional values

Eventually, the hot irons were thrust into his eye sockets and down his throat. Afterwards, finding he was still breathing, the crowd poured oil on him and set him on fire. The crowd then fought over the hot ashes to collect his bones and teeth as souvenirs.

36 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:55:30pm

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perfectly in line with his earlier statements.

"you don’t have to go to church every Sunday to know something is wrong in America where gays can openly serve in the military but our children can’t pray in school."

The man is a ignorant pig who think the Free world consists only of dim witted white Christians. He's a fucking embarrassment.

Close. He thinks the world consists of dim-witted white Christians and the heathen hordes we ain't taken the "word of God" to by force of arms.

37 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:55:57pm

re: #35 WindUpBird

more texas traditional values

please stop. I am especially sensitive today after reading about the animal abuse I posted about.

38 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:56:07pm

re: #31 WindUpBird


traditional values.

I like how they wrapped a cloth around the man's pelvis after burning and hanging him, so as not to offend.

Jesus.

39 danhenry1  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:57:12pm

Try beading, them little seedy things can be nasty

40 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:57:49pm

re: #39 danhenry1

Try beading, them little seedy things can be nasty

Oh, I did that for years. Hands won't let me anymore.

I tatted too! petite seed beads!

41 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:58:42pm

re: #37 ggt

please stop. I am especially sensitive today after reading about the animal abuse I posted about.

I'll put warnings on them next time :/

But yeah, traditional values of Rick perry's ilk, it's death, the man is scum and is celebrating the torture and death of human beings

42 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:59:25pm

I had the Southern CA Republican Party call me up for a poll tonight. They asked me one question "Do I approve or disapprove of President Obama's job so far?" I could tell the girl was disappointed when I said approve. I think she was ready to ask more if I had said disapprove.

43 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 7:59:33pm

re: #21 ggt

You'll just have to make your own. Photoshop or craft paint?

That Cricket cutting machine looks cool.

44 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:04:25pm

Focused like a laser on the economy! ///

45 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:04:49pm

Alabama Agriculture Department Advances Plan To Replace Immigrant Workers With Prisoners

GOP politicians have crowed that driving immigrants out of the state will reduce unemployment by letting native citizens fill those jobs. But they’ve quickly discovered that Americans are simply unwilling to do the back-breaking labor of harvesting crops.

To stave off the disastrous collapse of state agriculture, Alabama officials are seriously considering replacing immigrant workers with prison laborers who they could perhaps pay even less than immigrants. Earlier this year, the head of Alabama’s agriculture department floated this idea. Now, the department is actively promoting it to the state’s farmers:

Alabama agriculture officials are considering whether prisoners can fill a labor shortage the agency blames on the new state law against illegal immigration.

The Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries is meeting with south Alabama farmers and businesses in Mobile on Tuesday. Deputy commissioner Brett Hall says the agenda includes a presentation on whether work-release inmates could help fill jobs once held by immigrants.

Georgia implemented a similar scheme to deal with its post-immigration-law exodus, but the program had mixed results, with many inmates walking off the job early. In fact, some in Georgia were amazed Alabama did not learn from their mistakes before implementing an immigration law that jeopardized agricultural and construction industries. “It was like, ‘Good Lord, you people can’t be helped. Have you all not been paying attention?’” said Bryan Tolar, president of the Georgia Agribusiness Council.

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:05:21pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

Yes, and Perry is the guy who's reaction to Lawrence v. Texas was "nine oligarchs in robes." He absolutely thinks homosexuality should be criminalized, possibly because the threat of incarceration is the only thing keeping him from applying for a line of credit at rentboy.com.

The thing that's scary about a destabilized America (ever-higher unemployment, collapsed financial system) is we can easily slip back into this behavior

the GOP is continuing down this road of celebrating abuse, torture and death, dogwhistling to American fanatics

47 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:05:42pm

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Alabama Agriculture Department Advances Plan To Replace Immigrant Workers With Prisoners

hmmm, wasn't Alabama one of the states that got caught in the "prison chain-gang" debacle of the 50's? 60's?

making the prisoners slave labor.

48 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:06:14pm

re: #47 ggt

hmmm, wasn't Alabama one of the states that got caught in the "prison chain-gang" debacle of the 50's? 60's?

making the prisoners slave labor.

now it's not even a scandal! They just advocate for it right out in the open

49 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:06:28pm

re: #44 Petero1818

Focused like a laser on the economy! ///

Clearly established categories of non-people streamlines budgeting decisions.///

More seriously, I'm terrified of statements of the type Perry made. The idea of the people he's pandering to getting even a fingernail more power frightens me.

50 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:06:59pm

re: #41 WindUpBird

I'll put warnings on them next time :/

But yeah, traditional values of Rick perry's ilk, it's death, the man is scum and is celebrating the torture and death of human beings

Thanks, I just can't deal with anymore stuff like that today.

:)

51 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:08:50pm

I think Perry's "America's interests" statement was aimed at those who still want gays out of the military.

52 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:09:37pm

re: #50 ggt

Thanks, I just can't deal with anymore stuff like that today.

:)

Apologies, this stuff just amps me up *_* I have a friend in Dallas who is VERY closeted because he's afraid for his career (and considering leaving Texas) he's the guy I think of first when I hear of the latest neo-klan Rick perry bon mot

53 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:11:12pm

re: #52 WindUpBird

Apologies, this stuff just amps me up *_* I have a friend in Dallas who is VERY closeted because he's afraid for his career (and considering leaving Texas) he's the guy I think of first when I hear of the latest neo-klan Rick perry bon mot

I do understand.

There are days I just can't stand human beings and what they will do to satisfy their sick urges. Power, sex, whatever.

*spit*

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:11:24pm

re: #44 Petero1818

Focused like a laser on the economy! ///

extremely presidential, a real American

55 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:13:17pm

I dog I posted about needed internal surgery.

Can you imagine.

fucking sick people in this world.

56 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:14:07pm

Did anyone hear our Secretary of State today?

In what LGBT equality advocates are heralding as a remarkable and historic speech, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today told diplomats from around the world that LGBT rights are universal human rights, equal to women’s rights and racial equality, and that the United States, under the administration of President Barack Obama, will from now on take a country’s treatment of its LGBT citizens into consideration when making decisions on awarding foreign aid to that country.

57 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:14:11pm

but somehow, two adults in a loving, MONOGAMOUS, relationship is a a National Security Issue to the Whackos?

WTF?

58 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:14:42pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.dallasvoice.com...]

59 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:14:45pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

Did anyone hear our Secretary of State today?

link?

60 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:14:59pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

Did anyone hear our Secretary of State today?

She did a very good job. Makes me feel proud to be an American. We are not going back, dog.

61 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:15:00pm

re: #59 ggt

link?

nevermind.

62 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:15:13pm

HELLO, UGANDA!!!

63 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:15:36pm

I find it very interesting that the Tea Party spent a great deal of time claiming to be purely interested in the economy and taxes, yet all of its darlings spend the vast majority of their time talking about socially conservative causes like abortion, gay "special" rights, and the war on christianity.

64 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:16:10pm

re: #63 Petero1818

I find it very interesting that the Tea Party spent a great deal of time claiming to be purely interested in the economy and taxes, yet all of its darlings spend the vast majority of their time talking about socially conservative causes like abortion, gay "special" rights, and the war on christianity.

The only war on Christianity is the one they are waging with other Christians.

65 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:16:20pm

re: #63 Petero1818

I find it very interesting that the Tea Party spent a great deal of time claiming to be purely interested in the economy and taxes, yet all of its darlings spend the vast majority of their time talking about socially conservative causes like abortion, gay "special" rights, and the war on christianity.

The Tea Party is simply the GOP base with a new name

66 jaunte  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:16:51pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

Did anyone hear our Secretary of State today?

Here's a video:
[Link: link.brightcove.com...]

67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:17:00pm

re: #31 WindUpBird


traditional values.

re: #35 WindUpBird

more texas traditional values

re: #41 WindUpBird

I'll put warnings on them next time :/

But yeah, traditional values of Rick perry's ilk, it's death, the man is scum and is celebrating the torture and death of human beings

Yep, they're conservative bigots.

68 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:17:21pm

re: #60 prairiefire

She did a very good job. Makes me feel proud to be an American. We are not going back, dog.

Hey! Was your mom per chance at the speech??

69 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:17:34pm

re: #65 WindUpBird

The Tea Party is simply the GOP base with a new name

The Tea Party's the GOP's far-right base with a new name and corporate backing. The rest of us, the ones who aren't religious whackos or corporate kiss-asses? Yeah, we got ran out on a rail ages ago.

70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:18:00pm

re: #64 ggt

The only war on Christianity is the one they are waging with other Christians.

And everybody else in their path.

71 jaunte  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:18:16pm

Some highlights:

- “Well, in reality, gay people are born into and belong to every society in the world. They are all ages, all races, all faiths; they are doctors and teachers, farmers and bankers, soldiers and athletes, and whether we know it or whether we acknowledge it, they are our family, our friends and our neighbors.”

- “Some believe homosexuality is a Western phenomenon… but gay people belong to every society in the world…. Being gay is not a Western invention, it is a human reality.”

- “In all countries, there are costs to not protecting these rights, in both gay and straight lives lost to disease and violence and the silencing of voices and views that would strengthen communities and ideas never pursued by entrepreneurs who happen to be gay. Costs are incurred whenever any group is treated as lesser or the other whether they are women, racial or religious minorities or the LGBT.”

- “Our commitment to protect the freedom of religion and defend LGBT people come from a common source… Human rights are universal and cut across all religions and cultures.”

- “It should never be a crime to be gay.”

- “To LGBT men and women worldwide: Wherever you live and whatever your circumstances… please know that you are not alone.”

- “Those who advocate for expanding the circle of human rights were and are on the right side of history, and history honors them… We are called once more to make real the words of the universal declaration. Let us be on the right side of history.”
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

72 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:18:28pm

re: #60 prairiefire

She did a very good job. Makes me feel proud to be an American. We are not going back, dog.

Minutes later, assholes fucked it up:

Just moments after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told the United Nations in a historic address that the United States that the United States is committed to protecting LGBT people overseas from persecution and discrimination, and will use foreign aid as an instrument to defend their rights, Liberty Counsel’s Matt Barber attacked Clinton and President Obama for having an “obsession with the radical homosexual activist agenda.” Clinton called out abuses such as violence against the LGBT community, including “corrective rape,” along with the criminalization and demonization of homosexuals.

But that was too much for Barber, who earlier this year joined Liberty Counsel chairman Mat Staver in blasting the Obama administration for withholding aid to Malawi because the country outlaws homosexuality. Barber told the American Family Association’s OneNewsNow that the Obama administration is “trying to force nations to adopt America’s immoral positions on issues of sexuality” while supposedly ignoring “real human rights abuses”:

73 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:19:16pm

re: #63 Petero1818

I find it very interesting that the Tea Party spent a great deal of time claiming to be purely interested in the economy and taxes, yet all of its darlings spend the vast majority of their time talking about socially conservative causes like abortion, gay "special" rights, and the war on christianity.

They are fake. Hence their claim to the name teabagger. They are just bottom line AFRAID. Whoo wheee

74 Mattand  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:19:19pm

Dear Gov. Perry:

Go fuck yourself, you ignorant bigot.

Hugs and kisses,
Matt

75 jaunte  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:19:55pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'd be happy to volunteer Matt Barber to dig wells in Malawi.

76 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:20:21pm

Hey OhCrap -

What links you got on the truth about WorldVision --if there are any.

thanks

77 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:21:07pm

re: #71 jaunte

Some highlights:

Hooraaah

78 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:21:27pm

It's that time.. the 10pm news ..Which if you live in Oklahoma you watch the weather report all the time...But I catch the rest of the local news and much of it is really funny or strange.. They have a rant section where all these Locals call in bitching about something.. It's pretty funny...
It's getting down to 16 tonight..
So then It's Leno..Is it me or is he not very funny anymore? He has his moments.. But I liked him a decade ago ( Hire better writers Jay )
He destroyed Cain..Funnier than hell...so We'll see what he says about Newt tonight..

79 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:21:39pm

re: #64 ggt

The only war on Christianity is the one they are waging with other Christians.

I do hope you mean that their war is also against some of us Christians as well. Not all of us swallow their bile.

80 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:21:49pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

Did anyone hear our Secretary of State today?

I'm sure the wingnuts will pounce on that with glee.

81 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:23:38pm

re: #68 Stanley Sea

Hey! Was your mom per chance at the speech??

No, I heard on local news that the press and security people got most of the seats. I think about 100 students where there with the rest of the school watching at a different auditorium.
My mom and I wear talking on the phone about how proud of Ms Clinton we are.

82 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:23:39pm

re: #80 freetoken

I'm sure the wingnuts will pounce on that with glee.

The Liberty Council almost immediately vomited out something.

83 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:23:39pm

re: #79 wlewisiii

I do hope you mean that their war is also against some of us Christians as well. Not all of us swallow their bile.

Well, I couldn't think of a way to separate out the Whacks™ from those who truly practice WWJD -- in one sentence.

Yes, the Whackos™ are waging war on the rest of the Christian World --as well as the rest of the non-Christian World.

84 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:25:08pm

And frankly, I wish the Rest of the Christian World would wake-up a little more.

I truly feel the Establishment Clause is under attack and will be pulled-out from underneath us if more people don't work against the Whackos™.

85 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:27:18pm

re: #82 The Ghost of a Flea

The Liberty Council almost immediately vomited out something.

Obama made an earlier statement, which Perry used to play his God card. Isn't the Obama statement the one the Liberty Council attacked, or did they do that to Mrs. Clinton's also?

86 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:27:39pm

You know, as sad as this sounds, I miss Herman. As crazy as he was, at least he spent most of his time (before the scandals) talking about the economy.

87 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:27:48pm

re: #82 The Ghost of a Flea

The Liberty Council almost immediately vomited out something.

"liberty" council

gotta love their newspeak

88 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:28:53pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Minutes later, assholes fucked it up:

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Minutes later, assholes fucked it up:

Haha, Liberty is now the American key word for private educated bigots. Thinking people, knowledgeable people RUN from anything "Liberty".

89 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:29:49pm

re: #88 Stanley Sea

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Haha, Liberty is now the American key word for private educated bigots. Thinking people, knowledgeable people RUN from anything "Liberty".

"liberty" and "family" and "heritage" and "values" and "tradition"

look out for any of those

90 danhenry1  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:30:44pm

I don't think that those on the far right, and many of the mad men throughout the Arab swath of land have been 'Uplifted', yet.

91 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:30:55pm
92 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:32:08pm

re: #81 prairiefire

No, I heard on local news that the press and security people got most of the seats. I think about 100 students where there with the rest of the school watching at a different auditorium.
My mom and I wear talking on the phone about how proud of Ms Clinton we are.

Oh to meet you and your bad ass Mom. I'll bring by aunt who goes my the moniker, yellowdogdem. :)

93 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:32:35pm

Republican found guilty of election fraud, what a surprise:

A chief of staff to former Maryland Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich (R) was found guilty on Tuesday on four counts, including election fraud, for his role in setting up robocalls intended to surpress minority voting turnout in the final hours of Election Day last year.

Stay classy GOP.

94 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:32:39pm

Out teaing the Tea Party is tough, but My Governor is up to the task.

What a lovely man!

95 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:33:21pm

re: #94 austin_blue

Out teaing the Tea Party is tough, but My Governor is up to the task.

What a lovely man!

Good hair tho!

96 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:33:23pm

Changing the subject (sort of), I see that PaleoPat put up a column on why WWII was FDR's fault, basically soft-peddling Imperial Japan.

And Townhall is pushing it on their front page. Perhaps they feel guilty for doing such, as they're pushing another article (from a much less known pundit) that still makes Japan out to be the bad guy, by trying to connect Pearl Harbor to 9/11.

Re-interpreting history - who knew it could be such fun?

97 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:33:56pm

re: #89 WindUpBird

"liberty" and "family" and "heritage" and "values" and "tradition"

look out for any of those

Fakes. Who dream of tea bagging fun

98 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:36:38pm

re: #92 Stanley Sea

Oh to meet you and your bad ass Mom. I'll bring by aunt who goes my the moniker, yellowdogdem. :)

Maybe someday! Democratic women, getting things done.

99 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:38:15pm

re: #85 freetoken

Obama made an earlier statement, which Perry used to play his God card. Isn't the Obama statement the one the Liberty Council attacked, or did they do that to Mrs. Clinton's also?

Their announcement came not long after Clinton's, but attacked Obama, Clinton, and the administration as a whole.

100 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:38:27pm

re: #84 ggt

And frankly, I wish the Rest of the Christian World would wake-up a little more.

I truly feel the Establishment Clause is under attack and will be pulled-out from underneath us if more people don't work against the Whackos™.

The establishment clause is the ally of real faith. It allows people the freedom of their conscience in ways that a national church can not. Even as an Episcopalian I'm a grateful that the Anglican church was never established here: Faith can only thrive where it grows without coercion. We lose many people each year by not meeting their needs. We lose them by not showing how our worldview can help make their lives better. It would be enormously worse if the government were trying to force people to attend.

101 tnguitarist  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:38:27pm

Rick Perry is not in America's interest.

102 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:38:33pm

re: #97 Stanley Sea

Fakes. Who dream of tea bagging fun

Uncle fuckers.

103 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:40:30pm

re: #31 WindUpBird

traditional values.

re: #46 WindUpBird

The thing that's scary about a destabilized America (ever-higher unemployment, collapsed financial system) is we can easily slip back into this behavior

Especially since it wasn't nearly as long ago as it may seem:

One of my male relatives, long deceased, actually participated in the barbaric lynching of Jesse Washington in Waco in 1920. He seemed wholly unrepentant even as an old man in the 1970s.

What seems distant, and far-removed from the present really isn't - not in the least.

104 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:42:42pm

re: #95 ggt

Good hair tho!

Good Hair and Pointy Boots.

Hasn't slept with his wife since daughter Sydney was born, but what the hey!

105 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:43:49pm

And the State with what looks to be the 2nd highest "hate group" count from SPLC?

106 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:44:04pm
107 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:44:17pm

re: #104 austin_blue

Good Hair and Pointy Boots.

Hasn't slept with his wife since daughter Sydney was born, but what the hey!

right -- uh huh

think he has been celibate?

108 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:44:52pm

*sigh*

And he keeps getting re-elected. WTF.

109 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:46:43pm

re: #107 ggt

right -- uh huh

think he has been celibate?

He's been hiking the Old Appalachian Trail?

110 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:47:15pm

re: #108 Lidane

*sigh*

And he keeps getting re-elected. WTF.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

111 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:48:35pm

So can we drug test these people, or does their net worth exempt them?

Feds: Couple claimed welfare, lived in $1.2M home

A Seattle chiropractor and his wife live in a $1.2 million waterfront home and have spent the past eight years flying to Moscow, Paris, Israel, Turkey, Mexico and the Dominican Republic.
All the while, federal authorities say, the couple was collecting more than $100,000 in welfare.
Now, the U.S. attorney's office is suing David Silverstein and Lyudmila Shimonova, accusing them of filing false claims and demanding that the couple pay back more than $135,000 in federal housing assistance since 2003. Prosecutors are also seeking tens of thousands of dollars in fines.

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:49:14pm

re: #103 publicityStunted

re: #46 WindUpBird

Especially since it wasn't nearly as long ago as it may seem:

What seems distant, and far-removed from the present really isn't - not in the least.

it'd only take another credit crisis, that we can't recover from

113 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:50:45pm

re: #100 wlewisiii

The establishment clause is the ally of real faith. It allows people the freedom of their conscience in ways that a national church can not. Even as an Episcopalian I'm a grateful that the Anglican church was never established here: Faith can only thrive where it grows without coercion. We loose many people each year by not meeting their needs. We loose them by not showing how our worldview can help make their lives better. It would be enormously worse if the government were trying to force people to attend.

The people who are going to agree with Perry on this subject don't care about the faith of others in any sense. They're motivated by fear of contagious immorality, group guilt in individual actions, influence by a myriad of malevolent supernatural beings, and a general perception of the Divine as tribal and demanding appeasement. Not New Testament, not Old Testament...whether they realize or not they're back practicing old school Mesopotamian monolatrism.

114 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:51:25pm

re: #104 austin_blue

Good Hair and Pointy Boots.

Hasn't slept with his wife since daughter Sydney was born, but what the hey!

Oh boy. I read something, most likely linked from Sully about this spinal fusion (know 2 folks who had it, both fails, and they are actually prescript narcotic users now) that Perry had over the summer. He wares orthopedic shoes now, no more fancy cowboy boots fella! And it explains his incoherentness.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:53:18pm

re: #104 austin_blue

Good Hair and Pointy Boots.

Hasn't slept with his wife since daughter Sydney was born, but what the hey!

That's the least of my concerns.

116 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:54:24pm

re: #108 Lidane

*sigh*

And he keeps getting re-elected. WTF.

If he gets away with no debates next time. Shame. Just fucking shame.

117 jaunte  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:54:31pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is from his neck up.

118 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:54:47pm

Vocabulary Word:

Monolatrism or monolatry (Greek: μόνος (monos), single, and λατρεία (latreia), worship) is defined as "the recognition of the existence of many gods, but with the consistent worship of only one deity."[1] In contrast to monotheism, monolatry accepts the existence of other gods; in contrast to henotheism, it regards only one god as worthy of worship.

Many religions acknowledge the existence of various gods and/or spirits who do God’s will, which, strictly speaking, makes them more monolatarus than monotheist. However, monolatry is not the same thing as henotheism, which is "the belief in and worship of one God without at the same time denying that others can with equal truth worship different gods."[2] The primary difference between the two is that monolatry is the worship of one god who alone is worthy of worship, though other gods are known to exist, while henotheism is the worship of one god, not precluding the existence of others who may also be worthy of praise.

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:56:45pm
120 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 8:59:19pm

re: #113 The Ghost of a Flea

Not New Testament, not Old Testament...whether they realize or not they're back practicing old school Mesopotamian monolatrism.

Oy! QFT!

121 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:05:46pm

bbiab

122 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:05:50pm

Asshole Perry.

123 JRCMYP  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:07:05pm

I'm so fucking tired of this shit from the GOP.

124 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:10:44pm

re: #123 JRCMYP

I'm so fucking tired of this shit from the GOP.

Yep me too. Seems like they're hellbent on devolving on this issue. Goldwater was pissed about this shit and these guys have the nerve to claim to be supporters of individual rights and limited government.

125 Firstinla  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:23:44pm

re: #123 JRCMYP

I'm so fucking tired of this shit from the GOP.

And all that shit will hit the fan if the GOP take both houses of Congress and the White House. That is a fearsome image IMHO.

126 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:24:04pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

Yep me too. Seems like they're hellbent on devolving on this issue. Goldwater was pissed about this shit and these guys have the nerve to claim to be supporters of individual rights and limited government.

shhhhh, ixnay on the calling attention to the mass contradictions in the GOP. Nothing to see here. Move along.

127 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:30:26pm

Good night all.

128 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:39:32pm

re: #109 wozzablog

He's been hiking the Old Appalachian Trail?

HA! When my son was young, he called the thesaurus, The Saurus. "Mom, I need a saurus for school."

What?

LOL

129 HypnoToad  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:43:53pm

re: #33 ggt

would be a great first project!

You could buy a knitting machine . . .

Sounds like my girlfriend. She knitted me a Who scarf for my birthday a few months ago and found out that she really liked doing it. I now have two Who scarves, a Green Bay Packer one, and she's working on a Griffindor one for herself as well.

130 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:48:17pm

re: #107 ggt

right -- uh huh

think he has been celibate?

Rumors, rumors, rumors....

including the former Secretary of State:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

131 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:54:27pm

re: #129 HypnoToad

Sounds like my girlfriend. She knitted me a Who scarf for my birthday a few months ago and found out that she really liked doing it. I now have two Who scarves, a Green Bay Packer one, and she's working on a Griffindor one for herself as well.

I love doing that stuff--really miss it.

damn hands!

I always thought it would old eyes that would eventually make me stop, but no o o o

132 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:55:10pm

in the movie version perry wakes up gay in a mexican slum in the 1930s and ends up leading a movement for self respect for gay people in a lawless and macho culture

in reality he just gets rewarded for being an asshole...

133 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:56:24pm

You could make a Machiavellian type of case that it would be in our interests not to support gays rights overseas with foreign aid money*, but funding such programs is not a "war against traditional American values." To say it is a war is to admit to being an asshat.

*: "a case can be made" does not mean that I would agree with that case. I'd more likely oppose it.

134 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 9:56:32pm

re: #132 engineer dog

in the movie version perry wakes up gay in a mexican slum in the 1930s and ends up leading a movement for self respect for gay people in a lawless and macho culture

in reality he just gets rewarded for being an asshole...

Perry is Morrisey in the movie?

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:00:04pm

re: #113 The Ghost of a Flea

The people who are going to agree with Perry on this subject don't care about the faith of others in any sense. They're motivated by fear of contagious immorality, group guilt in individual actions, influence by a myriad of malevolent supernatural beings, and a general perception of the Divine as tribal and demanding appeasement. Not New Testament, not Old Testament...whether they realize or not they're back practicing old school Mesopotamian monolatrism.

They are also the same types who think only the lefty hippie tranzi losers do "identity politics".

136 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:01:24pm

Watching Rachel Maddow's coverage of Obama's speech today.

Wow. Looks like the POTUS gave a barn burner. I'm going to have to find a video of the whole thing.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:01:51pm

re: #132 engineer dog

in the movie version perry wakes up gay in a mexican slum in the 1930s and ends up leading a movement for self respect for gay people in a lawless and macho culture

in reality he just gets rewarded for being an asshole...

I'd watch that movie.

138 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:02:38pm

re: #132 engineer dog

in the movie version perry wakes up gay in a mexican slum in the 1930s and ends up leading a movement for self respect for gay people in a lawless and macho culture

in reality he just gets rewarded for being an asshole...

I'd only take that option if he were to wake up back in the room used by the Crypt-keeper in the original Tales From the Crypt from the 1970s, such that after he thinks he's gotten clear of his wrongs (and shown he wasn't really sorry for them after all), he finds out he's already dead and was simply being shown why his actions were evil before the final decent into Hell.

Call it the story's M. Night Shamalan Twist.

139 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:05:52pm

More reporting on Pointy boots/Good hair:

[Link: www.opednews.com...]

140 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:07:51pm

And goodnight.

Sweet scaly dreams to you all.

141 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:09:53pm

re: #136 Lidane

Watching Rachel Maddow's coverage of Obama's speech today.

Wow. Looks like the POTUS gave a barn burner. I'm going to have to find a video of the whole thing.

Yeah it was a barn-burner in the original sense; That being the Dutch farmer who burned down his own barn to rid it of rats. Obama has shed much of the verbal moderation that made him popular in order to try to regain popularity. That would work, if Republicans were unable to respond effectively. But the GOP is able to respond and Obama's FDR analogy is ripe for dissection and derision. Obama think he's staked out good ground, but in reality he's just given Republicans new ways to pain him as left-wing and ineffectual on the economy. Just wait till Frank Lutz rolls out the talking points and Karl Rove rolls out the ads about this one, you'll see this speech rebound hard aginst Obama.

143 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:10:52pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Obama's FDR analogy

Wrong Roosevelt. Everything about that speech echoed Teddy Roosevelt, not FDR.

144 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:11:51pm

Ok, my googlefu is broken.

What happens to drug money confiscated by the feds?

145 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:11:52pm

Also, Intrade still has Obama getting re-elected:

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

146 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:13:40pm

re: #144 ggt

Ok, my googlefu is broken.

What happens to drug money confiscated by the feds?

AFAIK, the money is confiscated and distributed among law enforcement agencies. The arresting agency gets a portion, and other relevant agencies get the rest.

147 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:16:19pm

Good eve...er, morning?
Something.

148 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:17:16pm

re: #146 Lidane

AFAIK, the money is confiscated and distributed among law enforcement agencies. The arresting agency gets a portion, and other relevant agencies get the rest.

I'd love to find a "balance sheet" on that by year.

Think the Fed's are transparent about that?

149 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:17:50pm

re: #146 Lidane

AFAIK, the money is confiscated and distributed among law enforcement agencies. The arresting agency gets a portion, and other relevant agencies get the rest.

That, plus the hookers and blow expenses.

150 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:18:00pm

re: #148 ggt

I'd love to find a "balance sheet" on that by year.

Think the Fed's are transparent about that?

HA! No. I doubt that.

151 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:20:37pm

re: #150 Lidane

HA! No. I doubt that.

It's a shit load of money

152 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:20:51pm

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

You could make a Machiavellian type of case that it would be in our interests not to support gays rights overseas with foreign aid money*, but funding such programs is not a "war against traditional American values." To say it is a war is to admit to being an asshat.

*: "a case can be made" does not mean that I would agree with that case. I'd more likely oppose it.

Confederate mentality makes cases against the UN.

153 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:21:25pm

re: #136 Lidane

Watching Rachel Maddow's coverage of Obama's speech today.

Wow. Looks like the POTUS gave a barn burner. I'm going to have to find a video of the whole thing.

I'm watching the latest ep on the website - she's talking to sherrod brown.

that what your watching?

154 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:21:35pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Are you actually excited about any of the GOP candidates or is this just rote partisan trash talking? I mean, you literally just said wait until we see the "talking points," without offering even a hint of substance.

155 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:22:45pm

re: #154 goddamnedfrank

Are you actually excited about any of the GOP candidates or is this just rote partisan trash talking? I mean, you literally just said wait until we see the "talking points," without offering even a hint of substance.

He doesn't want to ruin the surprise.

156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:22:45pm

re: #154 goddamnedfrank

Are you actually excited about any of the GOP candidates or is this just rote partisan trash talking? I mean, you literally just said wait until we see the "talking points," without offering even a hint of substance.

Nobody here is partisan but me. The rest are nonpartisan moderates.

/ (why bother)

157 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:23:37pm

re: #156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Nobody here is partisan but me. The rest are nonpartisan moderates.

/ (why bother)

I'm not partisan, its just that the GOP is currently full of shit.

158 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:24:34pm

re: #153 wozzablog

I'm watching the latest ep on the website - she's talking to sherrod brown.

that what your watching?

Yeah. I'm pretty much going through MSNBC's video library.

159 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:25:11pm

I'm partisan against anti science candidates. Also, anti gay candidates.
Full stop.
If a candidate thinks AGW/evolution/gay rights is hooey, they lost my vote.

160 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:25:18pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm not partisan, its just that the GOP is currently has always been full of shit.

FTFY

161 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:25:26pm

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

162 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:26:02pm

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

They loved Lincoln, then he took an arrow in the knee...

163 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:26:23pm

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

Lincoln isn't universally loved on the right. There's a rather sizable anti-Lincoln contingent, especially among the libertarians and Paulbots.

164 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:26:53pm

re: #163 Lidane

Lincoln isn't universally loved on the right. There's a rather sizable anti-Lincoln contingent, especially among the libertarians and Paulbots.

Okay, you really have no answer to the question, do you? :P

165 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:28:12pm

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

Eisenhower

166 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:28:34pm
167 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:28:59pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eisenhower

Mr Military Industrial Complex???

168 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:28:59pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eisenhower

Eisenhower who hated the military industrial complex :D

169 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:29:21pm

re: #159 Varek Raith

I'm partisan against anti science candidates. Also, anti gay candidates.
Full stop.
If a candidate thinks AGW/evolution/gay rights is hooey, they lost my vote.

I am partisan against those who are partisan against me.

I am not partisan against those who are not partisan against me. (5 pts to anyone who can name the person paraphrased.)

170 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:29:36pm

re: #164 JasonA

Okay, you really have no answer to the question, do you? :P

Haha, no. Teddy Roosevelt was called a communist by the right. So was Eisenhower, who the Birchers hated. Nixon would be hated as a RINO today because of OSHA, the Clean Air & Water acts, Title IX, taking us off the gold standard and visiting China. Ford is a non- issue. And both Bush presidents are marginalized and ignored now.

171 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:29:39pm

re: #166 WindUpBird

small government!

States rights!!!

172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:30:21pm

re: #171 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

States rights!!!

States rights always seems to result in states rights for rich white people to terrorize anyone they like

173 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:30:24pm

re: #158 Lidane

Yeah. I'm pretty much going through MSNBC's video library.

Always worth doing.

Particuarly Rachel.

174 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:31:06pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eisenhower

The one who started the big government federal highway program, or some other Eisenhower I've never heard about?

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:31:10pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

You didn't watch the speech. :)


I'd bet my car title on it

176 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:32:32pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eisenhower

As long as you don't point out that his Interstate Highway System was the largest economic stimulus infrastructure program in US history, and that it's run as a socialist public works project.

177 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:32:38pm

re: #174 JasonA

The one who started the big government federal highway program, or some other Eisenhower I've never heard about?

The Mythical Eisenhower.
Not to be confused with Mythical Reagan.
:P

178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:32:38pm

re: #172 WindUpBird

States rights always seems to result in states rights for rich white people to terrorize anyone they like

States have the rights to harass and second-class minorities, and enforce majority social hangups with extreme, lethal violence. Anything else and they will point and cry about commies and hippies.

I would say our definition is the same.

179 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:33:58pm

re: #177 Varek Raith

The Mythical Eisenhower.
Not to be confused with Mythical Reagan.
:P

Can we capture ghost Reagan and toss him in the containment grid with the other ravening spectres and ghouls yet? :D

180 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:34:36pm

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

Um... but they hate Lincoln. Just ask PaleoPat.

181 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:35:24pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Eisenhower

Not really. Other than a few crazies like the John Birch Society (whose crazed attacks on Eisenhower got them read out of conservatism by William F. Buckley), Eisenhower was universally respected, but not really loved. He government in too much of a middle-of-the-road manner to really merit love by the right for his presidency. But he was, and still is,respected by both sides for his steadiness and competence.

182 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:35:52pm

But those assholes love the 50s. How can they hate Ike?

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:35:59pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

admit it, you didn't watch Obama's speech

184 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:36:18pm

re: #180 freetoken

Um... but they hate Lincoln. Just ask PaleoPat.

They really seem to like pointing out that he was a "Republican," though.

BTW, this whole thing came to me as I thought of who it is that they actually like, and started to see how limited that pallet really is. You guys aren't helping...

185 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:36:28pm

re: #175 WindUpBird

You didn't watch the speech. :)

I'd bet my car title on it

I was at work, WUB. I can't watch daytime speeches these days.

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:36:50pm

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

I was at work, WUB. I can't watch daytime speeches these days.

So why did you pontificate on it as if you had?

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:37:34pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Yeah it was a barn-burner in the original sense; That being the Dutch farmer who burned down his own barn to rid it of rats. Obama has shed much of the verbal moderation that made him popular in order to try to regain popularity. That would work, if Republicans were unable to respond effectively. But the GOP is able to respond and Obama's FDR analogy is ripe for dissection and derision. Obama think he's staked out good ground, but in reality he's just given Republicans new ways to pain him as left-wing and ineffectual on the economy. Just wait till Frank Lutz rolls out the talking points and Karl Rove rolls out the ads about this one, you'll see this speech rebound hard aginst Obama.

Maybe I'm crazy, but this gives me the impression you had watched it

188 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:37:56pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

So why did you pontificate on it as if you had?

Because he knows that Obama will be defeated, and President Romney will set this country back on the path to prosperity. So there.

189 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:38:05pm

I mean, if you don't care, you don't care, cool


But let's not front, yo

190 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:38:23pm

re: #184 JasonA

Today's reactionary right in America seem to, upon reflection of all the spoken words on the national political level, look at the world as either pre-Reagan or post-Reagan. For some reason they've centered the timeline on 1980.

191 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:38:43pm

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

"The chief business of the American people is business."
-Calvin Tautology Coolidge

192 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:39:31pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

Not really. Other than a few crazies like the John Birch Society (whose crazed attacks on Eisenhower got them read out of conservatism by William F. Buckley), Eisenhower was universally respected, but not really loved. He government in too much of a middle-of-the-road manner to really merit love by the right for his presidency. But he was, and still is,respected by both sides for his steadiness and competence.

You're the perfect candidate for this question: which past Republican president can you get behind and say "HE was a really good president!"

No Reagans.

193 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:41:15pm

re: #177 Varek Raith

The Mythical Eisenhower.
Not to be confused with Mythical Reagan.
:P

Or the myths that surround many Presidents. Earlier this year, I used ALLCAPS followed by two exclamation points and a 1 to denote when I was talking about the myth of Ronald Reagan (or on one thread, Frances Fox Piven). Thus when discussing the Piven as devil figure for Glenn Beck's followers, I typed "PIVEN!!1" whereas if I was talking about the actual ideas of the actual woman in question I wrote her name normally. Does that work for people, or should the name be preceded by "Mythical" instead?

194 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:42:01pm

re: #191 goddamnedfrank

"The chief business of the American people is business."
-Calvin Tautology Coolidge

Isn't that the guy whose administration ended with a depression of some large magnitude?

195 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:42:21pm

re: #193 Dark_Falcon

Or the myths that surround many Presidents. Earlier this year, I used ALLCAPS followed by two exclamation points and a 1 to denote when I was talking about the myth of Ronald Reagan (or on one thread, Frances Fox Piven). Thus when discussing the Piven as devil figure for Glenn Beck's followers, I typed "PIVEN!!1" whereas if I was talking about the actual ideas of the actual woman in question I wrote her name normally. Does that work for people, or should the name be preceded by "Mythical" instead?

Nah, that works!11!1ty!

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:42:53pm

Things republicans never say about gay people:

"We need to ask ourselves, “How would it feel if it were a crime to love the person I love?" - Hillary Clinton

197 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:44:04pm

re: #194 JasonA

Isn't that the guy whose administration ended with a depression of some large magnitude?

Speaking of which, here is the summary of him in the Apple dictionary:

Coolidge, (John) Calvin (1872–1933), 30th president of the U.S. 1923–29. A Republican, he served as Massachusetts's lieutenant governor 1916–18 and governor 1919–20. He became the U.S. vice president in 1921, succeeding to the presidency upon the death of President Harding in 1923. Elected in 1924 to serve a full term, Coolidge was committed to reducing income taxes and the national debt, and was noted for his policy of noninterference in foreign affairs, which culminated in the Kellogg Pact in 1928.

Sounds like he'd be perfect for today's Tea Partiers.

198 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:44:37pm

re: #196 WindUpBird

Things republicans never say about gay people:

Things closeted Republicans think about themselves:

It should be a crime to love the people I love!

199 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:46:21pm

re: #194 JasonA

Isn't that the guy whose administration ended with a depression of some large magnitude?

No. The Great Depression did not begin until 1929, by which time Coolidge had left office. Thus the blame fell on his successor, Herbert Hoover.

Hoover really should not have been president, as he had very little ability to inspire and had a mindset better suited to building and logistics over politics. Given a logistical task he was incredible, as he showed in 1945 when Harry Truman gave him the task of organizing food supplies in Europe. But as a president he was ill suited.

200 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:46:30pm

re: #197 freetoken

We never learn, hence we are doomed.

201 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:46:37pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

So why did you pontificate on it as if you had?

lol

202 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:47:33pm

re: #194 JasonA

Isn't that the guy whose administration ended with a depression of some large magnitude?

Details. The important thing is that he was a snappy dresser.

203 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:48:39pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

Wait... you're actually suggesting that no blame lies with those in power the previous eight years?

204 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:48:42pm

Eisenhower

i sure wish he was around now

205 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:49:03pm

re: #192 JasonA

You're the perfect candidate for this question: which past Republican president can you get behind and say "HE was a really good president!"

No Reagans.

Lincoln would come first in my mind, but as we know I live in Illinois, full disclosure. I still think TR was great, despite the misgiving I have regarding some of his policies.

206 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:49:31pm

re: #204 engineer dog

Eisenhower

i sure wish he was around now

If he was around now the Birchers could call him "The Walking Red..."

207 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:49:37pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

But, Coolidge's administration policies, and even that of his predecessor (for whom he was VP), set the course. That Coolidge is a hero for the laissez-faire crowd is directly relevant to today's political battles.

208 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:49:59pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Lincoln would come first in my mind, but as we know I live in Illinois, full disclosure. I still think TR was great, despite the misgiving I have regarding some of his policies.

Okay. Good to know Teddy still deserves a nod.

209 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:50:33pm

re: #208 JasonA

Okay. Good to know Teddy still deserves a nod.

I'm sure he'll rest easy tonight. lol

210 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:50:36pm

pause for good music

I am just INHABITING this album at the moment, it's like swimming

211 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:51:13pm

re: #203 JasonA

Wait... you're actually suggesting that no blame lies with those in power the previous eight years?

Well, duh.

212 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:51:39pm

re: #204 engineer dog

Eisenhower

i sure wish he was around now

An Eisenhower Republican party would be an honorable republican party


the swine we have now are embarrassing at best, and fascist klansmen at worst

213 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:52:44pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

No. The Great Depression did not begin until 1929, by which time Coolidge had left office. Thus the blame fell on his successor, Herbert Hoover.

So there's no such thing as policies having lasting effects?

214 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:53:33pm

re: #212 WindUpBird

fascist klansmen

As opposed to liberal Klansmen?

215 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:56:24pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Yeah it was a barn-burner in the original sense; That being the Dutch farmer who burned down his own barn to rid it of rats. Obama has shed much of the verbal moderation that made him popular in order to try to regain popularity. That would work, if Republicans were unable to respond effectively. But the GOP is able to respond and Obama's FDR analogy is ripe for dissection and derision. Obama think he's staked out good ground, but in reality he's just given Republicans new ways to pain him as left-wing and ineffectual on the economy. Just wait till Frank Lutz rolls out the talking points and Karl Rove rolls out the ads about this one, you'll see this speech rebound hard aginst Obama.

maybe, but obama has a base just like anybody else, and that base - i ought to know, i'm one of them - was waiting impatiently until the last few months to hear obama give just such speeches, and stand up proudly and strongly and with a loud and clear voice to the republican party and give them an earful of good old Truth, Justice, and The American Way Old Time Religion big D style

surely rove, koch, & co. will do their best to use it against him, but it could be that they are miscalculating this time and they will end up instead amplifying a message that the majority of americans like

216 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:56:38pm

Eh. Just applied for half a dozen jobs. 9 this week.

Blah.

217 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:57:31pm

re: #212 WindUpBird

An Eisenhower Republican party would be an honorable republican party

the swine we have now are embarrassing at best, and fascist klansmen at worst

indeed, truly

218 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 10:59:02pm

Anyone heard of this one?

SEC. 8. INCREASING HOME OWNERSHIP BY PRIORITY VISITORS.

(a) Nonimmigrant Status- Section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended by section 5(a), is further amended by adding at the end the following:

‘(X) subject to section 214(t), an alien who, after the date of the enactment of the VISIT USA Act--

‘(i)(I) uses at least $500,000 in cash to purchase 1 or more residences in the United States, which each sold for more than 100 percent of the most recent appraised value of such residence, as determined by the property assessor in the city or county in which the residence is located;

‘(II) maintains ownership of residential property in the United States worth at least $500,000 during the entire period the alien remains in the United States as a nonimmigrant described in this subparagraph; and

‘(III) resides for more than 180 days per year in a residence in the United States that is worth at least $250,000; and

‘(ii) the alien spouse and children of the alien described in clause (i) if accompanying or following to join the alien.’.

219 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:00:05pm

re: #215 engineer dog

maybe, but obama has a base just like anybody else, and that base - i ought to know, i'm one of them - was waiting impatiently until the last few months to hear obama give just such speeches, and stand up proudly and strongly and with a loud and clear voice to the republican party and give them an earful of good old Truth, Justice, and The American Way Old Time Religion big D style

surely rove, koch, & co. will do their best to use it against him, but it could be that they are miscalculating this time and they will end up instead amplifying a message that the majority of americans like

Poll numbers, poll numbers, poll numbers.

Majority of Americans believe their kids will be worse off than them,

Majority for higher taxes on top, lower on bottom.

Majority for better/more regulation of wall street.

Majority for expanded healthcare.

All the GOP has is to tell the majority of respondents polled that they don't actually want those things because it will be "bad" in some sort of amorphously odd way.

The people are with the Progressives at the moment, populism is progressive at the moment.

220 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:02:20pm

at least coolidge had a good sense of humor, the peculiar old coot

221 Lidane  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:03:32pm

re: #218 ggt

Anyone heard of this one?

Yes. It's called the VISIT USA Act:

[Link: www.uschamber.com...]

222 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:04:07pm

re: #219 wozzablog

Not to indicate that those are the only identifiers of being a progressive, but more progressives share those values than do conservatives - and It seems a majority over all share them too.

223 sagehen  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:04:59pm

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

They're very fond of Herbert Hoover.

Which... really says a lot.

224 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:05:51pm

We (my family) visited a Teddy Roosevelt site (National Parks, IIRC) in South Dakota? a couple of years ago.

My kid has a thing about National Parks and the POTUS's. Did you know Ohio is the State of Eight POTUSs? Anyway, I've been to so many sites and freaking "markers" I can't remember the where's and whens.

So, what I took away from the South Dakota site was that Teddy was a freaking tough guy. He could have stayed in the East and travelled on beautiful steamships and partied in Europe his whole life, but he chose to spend a great deal of time living in a two-room shack in the middle of nowhere doing I forget what --guy stuff.

Not a whole lot of the "wealthy" did that. He had a clue about what it took to live in the real world.

225 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:06:01pm

That the Republican party split in the early 20th century, with TR and the progressives on one side, and (for lack of what to call it) the Harding/nationalist/isolationist/conservative on the other side, is one of those inflection points in American political life that has proven to be long lasting.

One way to look at American politics since 1900 is that our political system has struggled to keep up with the industrial/scientific/social changes, all of which accelerated greatly due to all the inventions of modernity.

There have always been those look back and long for the old days (through very misty glasses) and who are afraid of innovation and of losing control.

Today we seem to be in the third iteration of this battle. The first started in the 1850's and lasted through Reconstruction, and saw the birth of the GOP as the progressive movement and the importance of centralized governance as a way of affecting change for the good. The second was in the early part of the 20th century, say from Harding to the election of FDR, where we saw the GOP turn away from its progressive roots towards embracing the status quo and laissez-faire governance. And in this, the third, era it began around 1980 and lasts until today, where we see the atavists taking the GOP totally away from the idea of the importance of central governance for a better society.

Thats a big change over 130 years or so, but I guess that is what happens in human affairs.

226 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:08:43pm

re: #225 freetoken

Thats a big change over 130 years or so, but I guess that is what happens in human affairs.

It is a huge change in a relatively short amount of time. It seems one portion of society wants and is excited about change and another portion just can't handle it.

What happens when the two collide?

Hello 2012.

227 sagehen  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:10:14pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

Not really. Other than a few crazies like the John Birch Society (whose crazed attacks on Eisenhower got them read out of conservatism by William F. Buckley), Eisenhower was universally respected, but not really loved. He government in too much of a middle-of-the-road manner to really merit love by the right for his presidency. But he was, and still is,respected by both sides for his steadiness and competence.

And as soon as Buckley was dead, the Birchers came roaring back. Did you know they were founded by Fred Koch? Father of the Koch Brothers? They've been waiting their whole lives for an opening to continue their father's work.

It's the left that loves Eisenhower -- for the highways, for Earl Warren, for sending the 101st Airborne to Little Rock, for his Cross of Iron speech, for his farewell speech that warned of the military-industrial complex, for his 1957 Civil Rights Act (which didn't pass, but he gave it a good college try), for saying that those who would try to get rid of Social Security "are few in number, and they are stupid".

The right loves his military career, but not his presidency. Not at all.

228 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:10:27pm

re: #218 ggt

Anyone heard of this one?

No, but many nations allow people extended visas in exchange for putting money into their economies. Some of the smaller/developing nations have had "retirement" visas for this purpose.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:12:40pm

re: #223 sagehen

They're very fond of Herbert Hoover.

Which... really says a lot.

230 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:14:48pm

re: #227 sagehen

And as soon as Buckley was dead, the Birchers came roaring back. Did you know they were founded by Fred Koch? Father of the Koch Brothers? They've been waiting their whole lives for an opening to continue their father's work.

It's the left that loves Eisenhower -- for the highways, for Earl Warren, for sending the 101st Airborne to Little Rock, for his Cross of Iron speech, for his farewell speech that warned of the military-industrial complex, for his 1957 Civil Rights Act (which didn't pass, but he gave it a good college try), for saying that those who would try to get rid of Social Security "are few in number, and they are stupid".

The right loves his military career, but not his presidency. Not at all.

Nixon and Eisenhower were close. Nixon was instrumental in trying to get the Civil Rights Acts passed in the 50's and early 60's. A lot of people don't know that.

LBJ came and stole it out from under him.

231 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:16:36pm

re: #228 freetoken

No, but many nations allow people extended visas in exchange for putting money into their economies. Some of the smaller/developing nations have had "retirement" visas for this purpose.

It's a bipartisan bill.

Not quite sure of the intention or the possible result.

it's being touted as a way to get ride of our excess housing inventory.

232 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:17:30pm

Meanwhile, down in Durban, the whole day in the large room (in which the big plenary is held) is taken up by speeches of heads of states or ministers, all of whom get their 2 minutes, in order to get something to play as media sound bites in their own countries.

As far as any real work is concerned, I'll be listening to the last presser of the day, which will be held by Japan, to get any indication of what sort of progress has been made. Given that Japan, Russia, and Canada have already stated that they will not sign up to a second commitment period under the KP, and that India and China have stated that they will not sign for any reductions in admissions (well, China leaves the door open for after 2020) that are legally binding... well, it's all an immovable object vs. an irresistible force kind of thing.

233 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:18:22pm

re: #230 ggt

Nixon and Eisenhower were close. Nixon was instrumental in trying to get the Civil Rights Acts passed in the 50's and early 60's. A lot of people don't know that.

LBJ came and stole it out from under him.

Nixon was a crooked son of a bitch, but he still managed to work in some good legislation.

234 freetoken  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:19:02pm

re: #231 ggt

Not quite sure of the intention or the possible result.

Sounds like an attempt to keep the real-estate bubble get-rich scheme going, of which Americans seem so fond.

235 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:19:54pm

transcript of POTUS speech today in Kansas.

Transcript of TR's New Nationalism Speech from 1910

236 darthstar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:19:58pm
237 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:20:55pm

re: #230 ggt

Nixon and Eisenhower were close. Nixon was instrumental in trying to get the Civil Rights Acts passed in the 50's and early 60's. A lot of people don't know that.

LBJ came and stole it out from under him.

That may be so, but I'd have to say that LBJ took the biggest political risk. Nixon was pretty much a liberal Republican, while LBJ was a staunch Southern Democrat, in a time when the Dixiecrats still had the power in the Democratic Party. LBJ was able to sideline. strongarm, or co-opt those Dixiecrats (and other ambivalent or hostile Democrats) until he had the numbers for passage; I don't think Nixon would have been able to do the same.

238 Kragar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:21:58pm
239 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:22:57pm

re: #237 talon_262

That may be so, but I'd have to say that LBJ took the biggest political risk. Nixon was pretty much a liberal Republican, while LBJ was a staunch Southern Democrat, in a time when the Dixiecrats still had the power in the Democratic Party. LBJ was able to sideline or co-opt those Dixiecrats until he had the numbers for passage; I don't think Nixon would have been able to do the same.

They were adversaries, no doubt.

Equally despicable and brilliant.

240 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:28:48pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nixon was a crooked son of a bitch, but he still managed to work in some good legislation.

re: #239 ggt

They were adversaries, no doubt.

Equally despicable and brilliant.

LBJ was a bulldozer, pushing through force of will.

Nixon was a paranoid sonofabitch.

Both had good points and bad; LBJ's legacy of the CRA and the Great Society was overshadowed by Vietnam, while Nixon's legacy of getting us out of Vietnam, the EPA, and such was obliterated by Watergate.

Americans love to elect flawed, headstrong bastards to the presidency, more often than not, because they're usually the only ones who want the job.

241 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:29:43pm

NORTH Dakota! How could I forget, we made a special day trip to see it.

Teddy Roosevelt National Park, Medora, North Dakota.

When a young Theodore Roosevelt stepped from his train car in September 1883, he had only a dim idea of what lay before him in the remote settlement of Little Missouri. Roosevelt’s interest in hunting a buffalo, as well as some personal interest in the lifestyle of the West, had led him to this remote outpost. With his pregnant wife Alice at home 2,400 miles away, Roosevelt stood alone in the dark as the train lurched away toward Montana. He knew no one in the small settlement before him, and was unsure how the locals might receive him. As he walked toward the Pyramid Park Hotel, the four-eyed New York dude was immersed in a world he had only read about, a place that bristled with distrust of outsiders, especially Easterners. Roosevelt could not have imagined how his adventure in this unfamiliar environment brimming with tough, independent men would forever alter the course of his life.

242 sagehen  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:31:26pm

re: #237 talon_262

That may be so, but I'd have to say that LBJ took the biggest political risk. Nixon was pretty much a liberal Republican, while LBJ was a staunch Southern Democrat, in a time when the Dixiecrats still had the power in the Democratic Party. LBJ was able to sideline. strongarm, or co-opt those Dixiecrats (and other ambivalent or hostile Democrats) until he had the numbers for passage; I don't think Nixon would have been able to do the same.

When Eisenhower was unable to get the '57 bill through, it was because then-senate-majority-leader LBJ sent it to committee, watered it down, haggled over it and slow-walked it for ages, before finally killing it.

We're supposed to not remember that, because 7 years later he had a change of heart.

243 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:33:45pm

obama speech

The world is shifting to an innovation economy and nobody does innovation better than America. Nobody does it better. (Applause.) No one has better colleges. Nobody has better universities. Nobody has a greater diversity of talent and ingenuity. No one’s workers or entrepreneurs are more driven or more daring....

This country should not be known for bad debt and phony profits. We should be known for creating and selling products all around the world that are stamped with three proud words: Made in America

there's a slogan: Bring Back 'Made In America'

244 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:34:48pm

re: #242 sagehen

When Eisenhower was unable to get the '57 bill through, it was because then-senate-majority-leader LBJ stuck it in got it locked up in committee, watered down, haggled over it and slow-walked it for ages, before finally killing it.

We're supposed to not remember that, because 7 years later he had a change of heart.

7 years later he figured out that the only way he was going to get to be POTUS is if he had the North behind him. They weren't going to vote for anyone who wasn't behind Civil Rights.

Brilliant political shenigans.

245 darthstar  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:35:50pm

re: #242 sagehen

Either way, those days are gone. We'll have to wait a generation before we get congressmen who will work with the other party again.

246 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:37:36pm

I have a full day tomorrow.

Have a great evening/morning all!

247 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:38:03pm

re: #242 sagehen

When Eisenhower was unable to get the '57 bill through, it was because then-senate-majority-leader LBJ stuck it in got it locked up in committee, watered down, haggled over it and slow-walked it for ages, before finally killing it.

We're supposed to not remember that, because 7 years later he had a change of heart.

I'll agree that was despicable of him; it was pure partisan politics and one has to wonder how many black people continued to suffer under Jim Crow for those other seven years all because he wanted to stifle the opposition.

Still, in hindsight, the fact that LBJ did push for it when he became President (and wanted a full term of his own) says something (and it didn't hurt that the CRA was one of Kennedy's priorities, which a lot of people were seeing whether LBJ would follow through or kick it down the road).

248 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:39:24pm

Only LBJ could have gotten it thru.

Strange how Politics works. . .

night all.

249 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:40:24pm

re: #248 ggt

Only LBJ could have gotten it thru.

Strange how Politics works. . .

night all.

Just like how only Nixon could go to China...

250 engineer cat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:00:33am

re: #249 talon_262

Just like how only Nixon could go to China...

and only gingrich could have surrendered georgia and south carolina to the ferengi

251 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:06:20am

So the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees have been announced:

Guns N' Roses, Chili Peppers in Rock Hall

252 engineer cat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:10:24am

re: #251 Lidane

So the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees have been announced:

Guns N' Roses, Chili Peppers in Rock Hall

i'll show ya sum red hot peppers

253 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:17:07am

Tuesday at the AGU annual conference Jim Hansen led a presentation summarizing recently published and in progress work by his group (and cohorts), on what is learned from paleoclimatology. I've not found a video (yet), but here is the PPT presentation:

[Link: live.projectionnet.com...]

Might take a bit of background to decipher some of the graphs, but the bottom line is that the past is telling us that what humans are doing today has huge impacts for millennia to come.

254 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:19:53am

re: #252 engineer dog

I had been living abroad for about two years, and was on my first trip back to America. Was staying with my neice and nephew, the latter a member of the Mesa, Arizona police force.

He showed me a great Red Hot Chili Pepper video that he had been assigned to make as part of a stake-out.

Seems the city of Mesa had gotten wind of the RHCP's stunt of appearing with only socks on their cocks and wanted to have video evidence should they attempt that in Mesa.

So they had my nephew set up a video camera on a balcony overlooking the outdoor arena to tape it all. (this being in the days before video camera cell phones)

I wondered at that point:
a) how many cars were stolen, how many houses broken into during that time that an officer was assigned to taping a concert?
and
b) would I ever be able to go back home?

255 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:20:03am

Down in Durban, Premier of Niue is up first. Not as boring as many speeches, but I think he mentioned "Greece" as a lesson to be learned (I assume referring to their financial crisis). Probably a faux pas, but his island is drowning so I suppose he's got leeway to be a bit more upfront than others.

256 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:35:26am

Now,

H.E. Mr. Mohammad Javad Mohammadi Zadeh,
Vice-President and Head of the Department of Environment of the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN

is speaking...

It's hard to take the 4th largest oil producer seriously when they air concerns about breaking the 1.5 degree threshold when they complain about doing anything about oil exports.

257 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:49:13am

And now, an Onion piece about me from my callcentre days...

"Man Required To Wear Tie Decides It Might As Well Be Wacky"

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

258 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 12:57:44am

How is this not an Onion article?

“Alec was asked to leave the flight for playing ‘Words with Friends’ while parked at the gate,” Hiltzik said in a written statement. “He loves WWF so much that he was willing to leave a plane for it, but he has already boarded another AA flight.”

The extent of the argument over the game was in dispute, but one source familiar with the incident said Baldwin was abusive toward the flight crew.

259 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:00:40am

So, I just changed my avatar for the second time in a week. And i gave myself a description on my little profile page thing with the picture.

I'm livin' on that raggedy edge.

260 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:01:37am

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

How is this not an Onion article?

Because it's about a Baldwin. And anything about a Baldwin is intrinsically believable.

261 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:03:17am

re: #260 wozzablog

"When you see Arec Barwin, you see the true ugriness of human nature..."

262 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:16:07am

Now trending in Manchester, England: "Pearl Harbour"

Well, at least I get the temporal correlation... but why in Manchester?

Twitter - what did we ever do before it?

263 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:27:57am

re: #262 freetoken

264 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:41:19am

Chicago Police: Tape Us, Get Sentenced to 15 Years in Prison

Mark Donahue, president of the Fraternal Order of Police, said his organization cheered the decision, stating that he "absolutely supports" throwing those who tape police officers behind bars.

He complains that citizens monitoring police activities for wrongdoing might "affect how an officer does his job on the street."

Fuck you, Mark Donahue, you're the reason we distrust the police

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:42:08am
Ms. Moore's story is among the most alarming. She is being charged with the Class 1 felony of eavesdropping using a digital device after recording on her Blackberry a conversation she had with two internal affairs officers. The conversation occurred during her attempt to report a separate police officer for sexual harassment. Now she's set for a February 7 trial in Cook County Criminal Court and may spend more than a decade in prison.

Naturally.

266 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:44:03am

The Liberia minister mentioned the problem of Taiwan not be allowed to participate as a nation in the UNFCCC process.

At least that wasn't boring.

267 researchok  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:44:27am

Morning, all

268 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:44:42am

Whoops... I think that was the minister from Tuvalu, not Liberia.

269 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:45:48am

Qatar minister is speaking... Qatar, the next host of the COP (COP18)... Qatar, the #1 per capita CO2 emitter on the planet, by far.

270 RadicalModerate  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:46:19am

re: #105 ggt

And the State with what looks to be the 2nd highest "hate group" count from SPLC?

If you dig deeper into the numbers, Texas is actually #1, by a fairly significant margin on the number of racist/nationalist groups.

California has 14 black separatist (Nation of Islam, National Black Foot Soldier Network), as well as three Jewish Defense League chapters. These groups are pretty shady, but nowhere near the level of hate that groups like the 20-odd neo-Nazi/Christian Identity/white nationalist organizations or the 20 chapters of the Ku Klux Klan (by far the largest number in the nation) that Texas has.

271 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:47:43am

made a page: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

pretty sickening, but that's police in America

272 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:49:44am

re: #271 WindUpBird

no linkies in the Page...

273 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:50:05am

re: #271 WindUpBird

I do hope this case or a similar one makes it to the Supreme Court, we are definitely in need of a major re-interpretation of the Constitution in the light of new technology.

274 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:58:40am

re: #272 freetoken

fuck, one sec

275 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:01:08am

re: #273 ralphieboy

I do hope this case or a similar one makes it to the Supreme Court, we are definitely in need of a major re-interpretation of the Constitution in the light of new technology.

We so fucking are

276 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:02:52am

re: #273 ralphieboy

Imagine all the cases of driving while black ALONE


whoops, no recourse! because simply trying to prove it will land you in prison

And that's the way they like it :)

277 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:05:34am

"Yesterday, December 7th, 1941 -- a date which will live in infamy -- the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan."

[Link: www.americanrhetoric.com...]

278 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:11:15am

re: #273 ralphieboy

I do hope this case or a similar one makes it to the Supreme Court, we are definitely in need of a major re-interpretation of the Constitution in the light of new technology.

We do not need a re-interpretation of the constitution. We just need to follow what it has said for over 200 years.

279 aagcobb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:11:43am

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Alabama Agriculture Department Advances Plan To Replace Immigrant Workers With Prisoners

Yep, I'm sure inmates will be eager to do back breaking farm labor for pennies an hour. They'll need overseers to whip the shirkers, and perhaps they can auction off the prison laborers to the highest bidders!/

280 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:12:21am

re: #278 EdDantes

We do not need a re-interpretation of the constitution. We just need to follow what it has said for over 200 years.

"re-interpretation" is not really the word, we just need to see that its principles are applied in the light of new technology

281 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:13:50am

re: #279 aagcobb

Yep, I'm sure inmates will be eager to do back breaking farm labor for pennies an hour. They'll need overseers to whip the shirkers, and perhaps they can auction off the prison laborers to the highest bidders!/

Sounds like a win-win situation: we deport all illegal aliens, empty the prisons to replace them...

Wouldn't you love to have a serial rapist former crack dealer making your beds and mowing your lawns?

282 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:14:08am

Maldives minister actually spoke some truth, about how all "developing" nations are not the same, and that some are major emitters and need to address that. That's an indirect reference to China and India.

283 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:18:06am

re: #282 freetoken

There was an interesting report on German radio yesterday about how Indonesia, sitting as it does on thousands of active volcanoes, has the potential to generate almost all the electricity it needs using geothermal energy, but is taking no steps in that direction because oil is so heavily subsidized.

284 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:22:59am

re: #283 ralphieboy

Indonesia was a net oil exporter, OPEC and all. But their oil production peaked, and while it is among the most expensive (highest quality) in the world, they have had to become a net importer.

During their heady days of oil export they did like all oil rich countries and developed their society using oil, thus oil use is institutional. And being once oil rich they had leeway to subsidize internal consumption.

So they are a victim of their previous industrialization success.

Sound familiar?

285 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:25:04am

re: #284 freetoken

next step is to go to war and topple regimes to secure their sources of oil...

286 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:26:24am

Morning Folks

287 aagcobb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:27:43am

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

Calvin Coolidge

288 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:28:54am

re: #161 JasonA

Quick thought exercise: name one Republican president besides Reagan or Lincoln who is truly loved among the Right.

I'll wait.

The *memory* of Reagan is idolized by the right, the reality would not pass their modern litmus test.

289 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:29:06am

Canada minister (Peter Kent) is about to speak... we'll see how he does. Starts in French, switches to English.

Kent has been in the news the past couple of days, given their government's decision to not go into a second commitment under KP.

"Kyoto Protocol is not where the solution lies".

Now switched back to French...

"Kyoto for Canada is in the past."


... noise makers ...

He switches back to French... I assume this is some sort of strategy.

Security guards are removing the youth who were making noise. No pepper spray.

290 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:30:47am

re: #289 freetoken

Security guards are removing the youth who were making noise. No pepper spray.

wimps

/

291 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:51:21am

The Paraguay minister is going full-on Bolivarian (the Venezuelan minister was supposed to speak earlier but he hasn't so far... may Paraguay is filling those shoes?)

The COP sitting chair just one speaker ago emphasized that speakers are supposed to be limited to 3 minutes. I suspect he saw who was coming up on the list.

292 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 2:52:56am

... quoting Francis of Assisi...

293 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 3:09:32am
294 aagcobb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 3:30:38am

Its a safe bet that Perry is not seeking the endorsement of the Log Cabin Republicans. In fact, with the possible exception of Luap Nor and Huntsman, I expect the entire GOP field would try to actively dissuade the Log Cabin Republicans from endorsing them.

295 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 3:35:33am

Funny, because aside from the social/moral aspects, moit would seenm that a lot of gays would be naturally drawn to support the GOP over its stand for low taxes and small government.

Most of them do not have children, so they are not directly interested in the quality of local schools, nor are they buying homes in "family" neighborhoods.

And since they have no kids to "slow down" their career path, many of them are high earners, and are more interested in other forms of investing their money than college funds and mortgages.

296 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:11:10am

re: #294 aagcobb

Its a safe bet that Perry is not seeking the endorsement of the Log Cabin Republicans. In fact, with the possible exception of Luap Nor and Huntsman, I expect the entire GOP field would try to actively dissuade the Log Cabin Republicans from endorsing them.

The Log Cabin Republicans are going to endorse Obama. Wait for it.

297 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:12:07am

re: #296 Alouette

The Log Cabin Republicans are going to endorse Obama. Wait for it.

There is no Republican candidate they could possibly endorse.

298 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:19:25am

re: #297 ralphieboy

There is no Republican candidate they could possibly endorse.

Should go for Bachmann. Hipster irony.

'Morning, all.

299 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:22:41am

re: #298 Decatur Deb

Would be fun just to watch her reaction...

300 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:24:05am

re: #299 ralphieboy

Would be fun just to watch her reaction...

She would face it unblinkingly...

301 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:39:33am

Hey look, BoA developed a whole new kind of fraud. Always innovating, those guys.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:40:24am

I'd like a President for the Economy, one for social issues, and one for foreign policy please.

303 Flounder  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:48:05am

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Answer:
What is Ron Paul
/ need I?

304 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:50:18am

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'd like a President for the Economy, one for social issues, and one for foreign policy please.

Yes, and we all need a wife for the kitchen, one for the office and one for the bedroom...

dream on.

305 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:51:41am

re: #64 ggt

The only war on Christianity is the one they are waging with other Christians.

Isn't that the truth. I keep trying to get it into my fathers head that these people in the repub party (the fundies at least, which seem to be taking over) that he and his K of C (Knights of Columbus) friends have such a hard-on for really don't like him and his catholic religion. They refer to it as the Whore of Babylon. If they had their way the catholic church would be no more in America. But I guess in the fundies eyes that wouldn't be a war on christianity it would be defeating another false religion.

306 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:55:20am

My daughter called from Israel. They had the penis cutting this morning. The baby's name is PINCHAS (3rd baby named for my Dad).

307 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 4:56:16am

re: #305 RayFerd

Rick Santorum is Catholic, and he can out-bigot most of the Protestant fundamentalists.

308 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:01:07am

re: #307 ralphieboy

Rick Santorum is Catholic, and he can out-bigot most of the Protestant fundamentalists.

His Catholicism is getting inputs from other directions--most notably his anti-evolution stance. Here in the South my wife's Catholic friends often spout ideas that definitely have more to do with their Southern Baptist neighbors than with Aquinas.

309 Flounder  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:01:17am

re: #306 Alouette

Owie, must you this early in the morning!?

310 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:10:52am

Morning Lizardim.

311 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:11:47am

Good morning from the wet and wonderful Commonwealth of Virginia!

312 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:13:21am

It's a cool, damp dawn here in AL. Got to re-do the Festivus display because one of the LED strings smoked. BBL

313 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:13:25am

re: #308 Decatur Deb

Funny, 'cause even the Pope himself stated that he sees no conflict between believing in Evolution and Creation.

But that is just another argument about why the Catholic Church is an enemy of True Christians (TM)

314 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:13:58am

FYI...I made a video for each of my kids from Santa. They got an email from Santa with a link to a video. It's a great idea for kids and they also have ones you create for adults. You choose naughty or nice too.

[Link: www.portablenorthpole.tv...]

315 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:14:31am

HuffPost has more scam ads than any other website, including Fox!

316 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:16:15am

re: #315 Alouette

HuffPost has more scam ads than any other website, including Fox!

But aren't all of the ads on Fox scams?

317 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:17:21am

re: #316 thedopefishlives

But aren't all of the ads on Fox scams?

not just the ads...

318 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:17:44am

2012 Mortgage delinquencies seen dropping sharply
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Mortgage delinquency rates — the ratio of borrowers 60 or more days behind on their payments — will likely tick up to about 6 percent through the first three months of 2012, TransUnion said in its annual delinquency forecast issued Wednesday.

But by the end of next year, it could drop to 5 percent, TransUnion said. That's well off the peak of 6.89 percent seen in the fourth quarter of 2009.

Chicago-based TransUnion's forecast takes into consideration several factors, including expectations that consumer confidence and the economy will improve next year.

Also, banks are expected to get a good portion of pending foreclosures off their books next year, said Charlie Wise, TransUnion director of research and consulting.

I have 2 friends who each managed to buy nice houses for less than $7k a piece. Lenders have so many houses that have been sitting empty for years they're willing to sell cheap. There is a house a couple blocks from me that went for $4k recently.

319 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:19:30am

re: #313 ralphieboy

Funny, 'cause even the Pope himself stated that he sees no conflict between believing in Evolution and Creation.

But that is just another argument about why the Catholic Church is an enemy of True Christians (TM)

Same goes for Bobby Jindal and his weird-assed 'exorcism'. Both pols are examples of the contaminating threat of politics to religion. The establishment clause shields both state and church. BBL for real.

320 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:23:15am

Mythbusters Hole House with Cannon

Whoopsy. I actually didn't think anyone lived remotely close to the Alameda County Bomb Range. Seems like kind of a dumb place to live, when you think about it.

321 Flounder  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:25:44am

re: #320 thedopefishlives

I always thought they were over the top safe. That girl is awfully easy on the eyes, prolly the only reason I watch.

322 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:27:04am

re: #321 Shropshire_Slasher

I always thought they were over the top safe. That girl is awfully easy on the eyes, prolly the only reason I watch.

They are over-the-top safe, but given the extreme nature of what they do, accidents do happen. They had a "top 10 favorite places to go" episode during which they explained why they were banished from a local quarry. They set off a high-powered explosive and the shockwave apparently shattered some windows in the surrounding neighborhoods.

323 Flounder  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:27:36am

re: #318 RogueOne

Just because the bank owns these houses, they still have to pay property taxes right?

324 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:29:28am

re: #320 thedopefishlives

Mythbusters Hole House with Cannon

Whoopsy. I actually didn't think anyone lived remotely close to the Alameda County Bomb Range. Seems like kind of a dumb place to live, when you think about it.

"Lucy Adam and Jamie ,,,, you got some splainin to doooo!!!!"

325 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:31:13am

re: #324 sattv4u2

"Lucy Adam and Jamie ,,, you got some splainin to dooo!!!"

Gotta wonder if that one will make the highlight reel or not.

326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:31:33am

re: #320 thedopefishlives

I flippin' love that show.

327 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:34:40am

re: #326 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I flippin' love that show.

Me too. I love anything science-y, and of course I love watching things blow up. I was also pretty impressed with the show they used to have on after Mythbusters, Penn and Teller Tell a Lie. That was pretty fun.

328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:34:43am

re: #325 thedopefishlives

Gotta wonder if that one will make the highlight reel or not.

I think it should. To highlight their multiple disclaimers...

Adam: Don't try this at home.
Jamie: EVER!

329 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:37:04am

re: #323 Shropshire_Slasher

Just because the bank owns these houses, they still have to pay property taxes right?

Yes. One of the homes was part of a bankruptcy. Somehow they managed to get the local judge to rescind the taxes owed.

330 Flounder  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:38:14am

re: #328 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I liked the duct-tape boat, made me wonder if I could put an outboard on one myself!

331 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:51:50am

re: #307 ralphieboy

Rick Santorum is Catholic, and he can out-bigot most of the Protestant fundamentalists.

I see this as more like the "one issue" voters. Ignore all the "bad" things coming from the fundie side because they believe in the one issue you care about. Abortion is the single issue that my father and his K of C buddies are coalescing around. They hear that issue and it is "that is the person I will vote for".

I was at a K of C father/son breakfast a month or so ago with my dad and they said the pledge of allegiance at the beginning. Me being the asshole I am, didn't say the added "under god" part. They took it a step further and added the words "both born and unborn" after the ending words "liberty and justice for all". That is their one issue and they have been sucked into supporting people that don't really give a shit about them because of this one issue.

332 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:53:20am

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

MOSCOW —The Kremlin says a rogue staffer working with President Dmitry Medvedev’s official Twitter account was responsible for the retweet early Wednesday of a lawmaker’s highly obscene attack on the opposition.

“Overnight, an inappropriate retweet of one item appeared in the Twitter account of Dmitry Medvedev,” the Kremlin said in a statement. “The results of an investigation showed that at the time of a planned password change, an employee responsible for technical maintenance of the account committed unauthorized interference in the @MedvedevRussia feed. The guilty will be punished,” the Kremlin said, without specifying exactly what punishment is planned…

333 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:54:29am

Montcalm County gets homeland security snow cone machine
[Link: thedailynews.cc...]

STANTON — The United States is fighting terrorism — one snow cone at a time.

Montcalm County recently received a $900 Arctic Blast Sno-Cone machine.

The West Michigan Shoreline Regional Development Commission (WMSRDC) is a federal- and state-designated agency responsible for managing and administrating the homeland security program in Montcalm County and 12 other counties.

The WMSRDC recently purchased and transferred homeland security equipment to these counties — including 13 snow cone machines at a total cost of $11,700.

Before anyone starts making fun of them it's a well known fact that terrorists hate snow cones. They're using the machines to narrow down the suspects they need to watch.

334 kirkspencer  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:56:55am

re: #295 ralphieboy

Funny, because aside from the social/moral aspects, moit would seenm that a lot of gays would be naturally drawn to support the GOP over its stand for low taxes and small government.

Most of them do not have children, so they are not directly interested in the quality of local schools, nor are they buying homes in "family" neighborhoods.

And since they have no kids to "slow down" their career path, many of them are high earners, and are more interested in other forms of investing their money than college funds and mortgages.

There is a reason why the non-white votes are solidly Democratic, and why the female and non-fundamentalist-Christian votes tend to be Democratic.

Demographic trends are tectonic plate movements. They're slow but overwhelming. The GOP as it currently exists must change or die. Like most human endeavors in such a trap there's a lot of energetic and destructive thrashing as they try to find a third option.

335 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 5:57:56am

re: #333 RogueOne

Does one begin to suspect that the person responsible for organizing this grant money has some connection to people who make or sell such devices?

336 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:00:02am

re: #334 kirkspencer

Somebody in the GOP regularly laments the fact that Latinos should be natural-born GOP supporters because they are strongly pro-family, pro-business and socially conservative

But they are also not completely stupid...

337 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:00:44am

re: #335 ralphieboy

Does one begin to suspect that the person responsible for organizing this grant money has some connection to people who make or sell such devices?

Careful. Questions like that puts you on the "hates snow cones" list.

338 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:02:22am

re: #337 RogueOne

Careful. Questions like that puts you on the "hates snow cones" list.

I am merely suspicious of the yellow ones...

339 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:04:51am

re: #338 ralphieboy

I am merely suspicious of the yellow ones...

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?!?

340 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:04:56am

Hello from bonny Scotland, where we had snow yesterday! Hope everyone is having a good day!

341 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:05:10am

Barbara Orbison's (Roy's wife) died. She gave a friend of mine his break into the music business 20 years ago. He's still in Nashville doing that thing that he does because of her.

342 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:06:04am

re: #340 iceweasel

Hello from bonny Scotland, where we had snow yesterday! Hope everyone is having a good day!

Good morning, {ice}. Hope things are going well across the pond. We're getting a blast of Canada here in the wild north country, which means our snow is finally here to stay.

343 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:06:57am

re: #342 thedopefishlives

Good morning, {ice}. Hope things are going well across the pond. We're getting a blast of Canada here in the wild north country, which means our snow is finally here to stay.

Hello fishie! Hope you, the mrs fish, and the fishspawn are all well and keeping warm. :)

344 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:08:24am

re: #340 iceweasel

re: #342 thedopefishlives

Yup!!
A wooping 5 dig ...
I'm heading out side ...anyone want a
lemon snow cone??
..Ralphie...?

345 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:09:23am

re: #343 iceweasel

Hello fishie! Hope you, the mrs fish, and the fishspawn are all well and keeping warm. :)

We're doing just fine. We installed a space heater in the fishspawn's room, so he's extra toasty warm. The Mrs. Fish is somewhat jealous.

346 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:10:05am

re: #344 reloadingisnotahobby

re: #342 thedopefishlives

Yup!!
A wooping 5 dig ...
I'm heading out side ...anyone want a
lemon snow cone??
..Ralphie...?

347 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:11:41am

re: #346 NJDhockeyfan

I knew it would be mere seconds before that showed up!
...Mornin Nanuk!

348 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:12:19am

re: #347 reloadingisnotahobby

I knew it would be mere seconds before that showed up!
...Mornin Nanuk!

I couldn't resist.

349 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:13:49am

re: #344 reloadingisnotahobby

re: #342 thedopefishlives

Yup!!
A wooping 5 dig ...
I'm heading out side ...anyone want a
lemon snow cone??
..Ralphie...?

It's getting cold enough in the mornings that I've had to start plugging in the block heater on my little diesel Volkswagen. Works great, I only wish I could plug it in while I'm at work so that it isn't such a pain to start for the return trip.

350 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:16:02am

I just posted a page on FDR's "a date that will live in infamy" speech. That was 70 years ago.

351 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:16:56am

infamy, infayou, too...

352 kirkspencer  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:17:32am

re: #336 ralphieboy

Somebody in the GOP regularly laments the fact that Latinos should be natural-born GOP supporters because they are strongly pro-family, pro-business and socially conservative

But they are also not completely stupid...

Yep.

Watch the hispanic, especially the Cuban, vote in Florida to see this in action.

353 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:17:59am

re: #349 thedopefishlives
My garage/shop was 19 dig this am at 5:00....
I moved all Aerosol's and such done to the cellar last weekend.
My work truck sits outside and that is why I'm 'here' for
a few minutes every morn...
It's here to stay I'm afraid...

355 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:20:51am

re: #353 reloadingisnotahobby

My garage/shop was 19 dig this am at 5:00...
I moved all Aerosol's and such done to the cellar last weekend.
My work truck sits outside and that is why I'm 'here' for
a few minutes every morn...
It's here to stay I'm afraid...

I'm perfectly OK with that. I like the cold weather. The car, not so much. Of course, I probably need a new round of glow plugs in it, as it was starting just fine up until a few weeks ago.

356 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:24:40am

re: #355 thedopefishlives
The VW Deisels like fuel treatment when it's uber cold...
....I've heard!
Fresh plugs could help too!
...Summer is much better! :-)

357 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:25:11am

re: #16 danhenry1

Next he will say that we shouldn't be anywhere where we are trying to improve the rights and standing of women, beecause that is 'not in Americas' interest. Or we should keep supporting the mining of Gold with child slaves, because that is in Americas' interest.. Scary thoughts

Basically the Obama administration is putting places like Uganda on notice that they won't get foreign aid if they persecute homosexuals, correct?

Um, I thought conservatives wanted to cut foreign aid. This sounds like as good a way as any other. I'd guess Yemen doesn't have a great record of respect for its homosexual citizens' human rights, and I'd be OK with sending less money to them too. How about Pakistan? The newly elected Islamists in Egypt?

Why do the GOP candidates want to send so much money to our enemies? ///

358 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:25:45am

re: #349 thedopefishlives

It's getting cold enough in the mornings that I've had to start plugging in the block heater on my little diesel Volkswagen. Works great, I only wish I could plug it in while I'm at work so that it isn't such a pain to start for the return trip.

Hehe. You need to be in a place like Edmonton where all the outdoor parking spaces have electrical outlets to allow that.

359 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:25:46am

re: #356 reloadingisnotahobby

The VW Deisels like fuel treatment when it's uber cold...
...I've heard!
Fresh plugs could help too!
...Summer is much better! :-)

I treat the fuel, sort of a requirement for running a diesel engine of any kind up here in the land of mandated 2% biodiesel.

360 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:27:01am

re: #354 Alouette
Indeed!
This would be the new grand baby for you to spoil??
Beeeutiful!

361 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:27:41am

re: #357 funky chicken

Basically the Obama administration is putting places like Uganda on notice that they won't get foreign aid if they persecute homosexuals, correct?

Um, I thought conservatives wanted to cut foreign aid. This sounds like as good a way as any other. I'd guess Yemen doesn't have a great record of respect for its homosexual citizens' human rights, and I'd be OK with sending less money to them too. How about Pakistan? The newly elected Islamists in Egypt?

Why do the GOP candidates want to send so much money to our enemies? ///

Because the sole focus of the GOP is getting and maintaining power? Along with propping up the status quo since that keeps their financial masters happy.

362 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:28:40am

re: #358 oaktree

...Here all the cords would be stolen for copper...

364 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:37:46am

Rush is not too happy today....

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

I've never shared this, folks. Being number one, I mean there's nothing like it and I wouldn't trade it, but it carries limitations, it brings limitations with it. By definition anybody I talk about is smaller than I am so when I talk about 'em I elevate 'em and call attention to what really is not noticed by a whole lot of people. So there's a lot of stuff I can't, either by virtue of my professional policy and by virtue of common sense, there's a lot of stuff that I don't talk about because it doesn't deserve to be any more widely spread than it already is on its own.

365 aagcobb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:38:24am

re: #357 funky chicken

Basically the Obama administration is putting places like Uganda on notice that they won't get foreign aid if they persecute homosexuals, correct?

Um, I thought conservatives wanted to cut foreign aid. This sounds like as good a way as any other. I'd guess Yemen doesn't have a great record of respect for its homosexual citizens' human rights, and I'd be OK with sending less money to them too. How about Pakistan? The newly elected Islamists in Egypt?

Why do the GOP candidates want to send so much money to our enemies? ///

They are going to lie and spin the policy as being that Obama is sending money to furriners to grant special rights to Gays. And their base will believe it.

366 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:40:07am

re: #364 iceweasel

These were the nominees in September:

· Beastie Boys
· The Cure
· Donovan
· Eric B. & Rakim
· Guns 'N Roses
· Heart
· Joan Jett and The Blackhearts
· Freddie King
· Laura Nyro
· Red Hot Chili Peppers
· Rufus with Chaka Khan
· The Small Faces/The Faces
· The Spinners
· Donna Summer
· War

367 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:45:55am

morning all

368 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:46:40am

re: #362 reloadingisnotahobby

...Here all the cords would be stolen for copper...

Well the place I saw them all rigged up was UAB (Univ of Alberta) and the outlets were 6-8" above ground with covers and the lines were run underground in metal conduit.

And this was also the early 80s - so maybe they've abandoned that or gone with another system since then.

(That was the same trip were I got to drive through downtown Saskatoon in rush hour. Including hearing a female DJ say, "That was a good tune, eh?")
:)

369 engineer cat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:48:34am

PARADISE VALLEY, AZ -- Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney said Tuesday that he's turning to the "closing arguments of his campaign," and that the time for collecting checks and campaigning selectively was nearly over.

Romney signaled that his campaign was moving into a new phase to win over skeptical GOP primary voters with just less than a month to go until the first votes are cast.

"We’re just starting. We’re just getting up with ads. We’re making our closing argument," Romney said at a campaign stop here in the Phoenix suburbs. "You’ll see me campaigning aggressively.

huh

the only gop hopeful with any chance of beating obama has been told his campaign is in big big trouble and is panicking in public like a rank amateur

370 darthstar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:51:19am

Mornin' all...good news...it appears Alabama's immigration law could see a lot of Americans returning to work...

Unable to find legal residents to fill all the employment gaps, [Deputy commissioner with the Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries Brett] Hall said the Agriculture Department is consulting with the Department of Corrections to determine whether prisoners could do some of the work.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Alabama Can't Find Anyone to Fill Undocumented Immigrants' Old Jobs - Springfield Immigration Reform | Examiner.com [Link: www.examiner.com...]

Need a job? Go to prison!

371 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:51:40am

re: #364 iceweasel

Rush is not too happy today...

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

OMG! You quoted him. I thought the purple was your interpetation.

What a conceited SOB.

372 iossarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:52:57am

Rush!

The lyrics up to this point (most of them written by Peart) were heavily influenced by classical poetry, fantasy literature, science fiction, and the writings of novelist Ayn Rand [...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

373 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:53:03am

Assad says only "crazy" leaders kill own people

"We don't kill our people ... No government in the world kills its people, unless it's led by a crazy person,"

"Most of the people that have been killed are supporters of the government, not the vice versa,"

Crazy leaders don't kill their own people, evil murderous leaders do.

374 darthstar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:53:20am

re: #371 ggt

OMG! You quoted him. I thought the purple was your interpetation.

What a conceited SOB.

I was wondering if that was a direct quote, but I don't visit Limbaugh's site when I'm still nekkid...makes me feel dirty.

375 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:53:45am

re: #270 RadicalModerate

If you dig deeper into the numbers, Texas is actually #1, by a fairly significant margin on the number of racist/nationalist groups.

California has 14 black separatist (Nation of Islam, National Black Foot Soldier Network), as well as three Jewish Defense League chapters. These groups are pretty shady, but nowhere near the level of hate that groups like the 20-odd neo-Nazi/Christian Identity/white nationalist organizations or the 20 chapters of the Ku Klux Klan (by far the largest number in the nation) that Texas has.

I did notice the huge KKK membership.

NJ is the hotbed, IMHO. Such a small geographical area compared to Texas.

376 iossarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:53:49am

re: #370 darthstar

Mornin' all...good news...it appears Alabama's immigration law could see a lot of Americans returning to work...

Need a job? Go to prison!

Need a job? Move to Alabama and toil in the fields for $3 an hour!

It's the dust bowl, like, all over again! Except in reverse!

377 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:54:53am

re: #371 ggt

OMG! You quoted him. I thought the purple was your interpetation.

What a conceited SOB.

I couldn't improve on the original.

378 iossarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:55:05am

re: #373 NJDhockeyfan

Assad says only "crazy" leaders kill own people

Crazy leaders don't kill their own people, evil murderous leaders do*.

* Countries with the death penalty excluded as that is an enlightened and humane way of killing a country's own people.

379 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:55:29am

re: #320 thedopefishlives

Mythbusters Hole House with Cannon

Whoopsy. I actually didn't think anyone lived remotely close to the Alameda County Bomb Range. Seems like kind of a dumb place to live, when you think about it.

Crap happens all the time. A one-star from my old command had to go and explain why he shelled the family house and killed the cat.

380 darthstar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:57:32am

re: #376 iossarian

Need a job? Move to Alabama and toil in the fields for $3 an hour!

It's the dust bowl, like, all over again! Except in reverse!

Actually...the pay isnt that bad! (from the same article)

Hall said the agriculture positions pay well above minimum wage, but many Americans find them too "physically taxing" to perform.

We're just a bunch of lazy fat fucks with 42" TVs.

381 iossarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:00:08am

re: #380 darthstar

Actually...the pay isnt that bad! (from the same article)

I would pay good money to see a reality show where a range of wealthy opponents of the minimum wage get to pick lettuce in Alabama for a month, enjoying the lifestyle that their earnings can procure.

382 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:00:37am

re: #380 darthstar

Actually...the pay isnt that bad! (from the same article)

We're just a bunch of lazy fat fucks with 42" TVs.

But, they'll pay money to go to the gym and be "trained" by a professional.

383 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:01:40am

re: #381 iossarian

I would pay good money to see a reality show where a range of wealthy opponents of the minimum wage get to pick lettuce in Alabama for a month, enjoying the lifestyle that their earnings can procure.

Actually, that would be a great reality show.

Like the one PBS did a while back on pioneer living.

384 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:02:06am

re: #380 darthstar

Actually...the pay isnt that bad! (from the same article)

We're just a bunch of lazy fat fucks with 42" TVs.

It's a matter of conditioning, expectations, and unappreciated picking skill. If you'd like to try your hand for a week or so, you can crash on my couch.
(Watch out for that minimum wage/basket-piecework thing.)

385 engineer cat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:02:42am

re: #377 iceweasel

I couldn't improve on the original.

rush's rants these days seem to be more and more about how there are no more true conservatives except himself and the conservative movement is falling apart

386 darthstar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:02:51am

re: #381 iossarian

I would pay good money to see a reality show where a range of wealthy opponents of the minimum wage get to pick lettuce in Alabama for a month, enjoying the lifestyle that their earnings can procure.

"Survivor: Tuscaloosa" - at the first tribal council meeting, the immunity token would be tossed around like a hot potato..."I don't want it...vote me off!"

387 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:02:53am

re: #378 iossarian

Distinguishing between capital punishment through a legally sanctioned judicial order and a regime that sends out its military forces to bombard cities, ordering artillery assaults on civilian populations, and using aircraft to strafe civilians attempting to flee. Assad's regime falls into the latter category despite his hollow protestations to the contrary.

388 iossarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:07:53am

re: #387 lawhawk

Distinguishing between capital punishment through a legally sanctioned judicial order and a regime that sends out its military forces to bombard cities, ordering artillery assaults on civilian populations, and using aircraft to strafe civilians attempting to flee. Assad's regime falls into the latter category despite his hollow protestations to the contrary.

Of course - I was merely pointing out that the charge of "killing one's own people" extends to those countries with the death penalty (which one can oppose while acknowledging the varying degrees of brutality and corruption that exist in different countries).

389 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:09:14am

re: #381 iossarian

I would pay good money to see a reality show where a range of wealthy opponents of the minimum wage get to pick lettuce in Alabama for a month, enjoying the lifestyle that their earnings can procure.

Strawberries are even worse than lettuce, unless you're talking mesclun. Just a southern gardener's perspective. :-)

Or old fashioned blackberries with the thorns on the canes. They ripen in the peak of the July/August heat too.

So, how about berry picking? Start with strawberries in May, blueberries in June, then blackberries until August, and then move on to cotton and peanuts in the fall. Not that you'd have anybody make it to peanut harvest season, most likely.

390 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:13:29am

re: #337 RogueOne

Did you see WindUpBird's latest page? Audio/Video recordings of police officers in Illinois can get you a longer prison term than child molestation, rape, or murder. Priorities!

391 darthstar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:13:40am

re: #389 funky chicken

So, how about berry picking? Start with strawberries in May, blueberries in June, then blackberries until August, and then move on to cotton and peanuts in the fall. Not that you'd have anybody make it to peanut harvest season, most likely.

Can I do the job and still get my daily three hours of facebook and LGF?

392 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:14:12am

re: #375 ggt

I did notice the huge KKK membership.

NJ is the hotbed, IMHO. Such a small geographical area compared to Texas.

Wait. New Jersey? We lived there for 4 years and, aside from one crazy old dude with his whole yard full of "defund the UN" signs, I didn't see any signs of racist activity. Jersey is the most diverse place we've ever lived, actually.

393 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:15:58am

re: #391 darthstar

If you can take 8 hours of strawberry picking, you're a lot better than I. After about 2 hours of that, my back is done for the day, which would certainly leave at least 3 hours for computer time.

394 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:16:26am

re: #389 funky chicken

Strawberries are even worse than lettuce, unless you're talking mesclun. Just a southern gardener's perspective. :-)

Or old fashioned blackberries with the thorns on the canes. They ripen in the peak of the July/August heat too.

So, how about berry picking? Start with strawberries in May, blueberries in June, then blackberries until August, and then move on to cotton and peanuts in the fall. Not that you'd have anybody make it to peanut harvest season, most likely.

[channeling Newt]School is out in the summertime and you have a lot of bored kids with nothing to do. Organize berry-picking trips! A lot of the summer camps and day camps have berry-picking as an activity and the kids love it![/Newt off]

395 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:18:31am

re: #392 funky chicken

Wait. New Jersey? We lived there for 4 years and, aside from one crazy old dude with his whole yard full of "defund the UN" signs, I didn't see any signs of racist activity. Jersey is the most diverse place we've ever lived, actually.

You didn't live in Sussex County, then. We lived there, not far from the old Nazi Bund campground. It had every bit as much racial crap as we see here in Alabama, with a nice overlay of intra-European ethnic nostalgia. My kid was punched on the schoolbus his first day, asked "Dad, are we Jewish?"

396 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:18:51am

re: #394 Alouette

[channeling Newt]School is out in the summertime and you have a lot of bored kids with nothing to do. Organize berry-picking trips! A lot of the summer camps and day camps have berry-picking as an activity and the kids love it![/Newt off]

Get a booth at the local farmer's market and turn it into a business!

397 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:19:30am

I'm off

Have a great morning all!

398 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:20:32am

re: #387 lawhawk

Distinguishing between capital punishment through a legally sanctioned judicial order and a regime that sends out its military forces to bombard cities, ordering artillery assaults on civilian populations, and using aircraft to strafe civilians attempting to flee. Assad's regime falls into the latter category despite his hollow protestations to the contrary.

A Sky reporter was able to get into Soms and report on what is going on there as he witnessed the bloodshed.

Inside Syria: Daily Life Amid The Gunfire

Syria is a country in crisis, ripped apart by daily battles and intense fighting.

Waking to the sound of gunfire is never pleasant; when it is incoming and down your street it is particularly unnerving.

In Homs, every day starts with sniper fire. Every day. People queuing to buy bread or vegetables scatter.

Children start crying, cars screech into reverse while men and women gather what they have and head for the protection of alleys and doorways.

Nine people died at a crossroads at the end of the street we were staying in last week. More will likely die today.

Not once in four days in this city of 850,000 people did I feel even remotely safe.

...

There is a video report at the link.

399 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:20:49am

re: #396 ggt

Get a booth at the local farmer's market and turn it into a business!

Let one kid borrow a smartphone and they can turn their little sidewalk booth into a multi-million-dollar business!
//that was an actual smartphone commercial

400 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:22:24am

re: #390 publicityStunted

Did you see WindUpBird's latest page? Audio/Video recordings of police officers in Illinois can get you a longer prison term than child molestation, rape, or murder. Priorities!

Yes. I updinged it!

One of the cases in IL that wasn't mentioned in the piece is the Michael Allison trial. He managed to win (the judge ruled the law unconstitutional) but the state is appealing to the IL supreme court. That one has been going on for over a year now.

401 darthstar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:23:42am

re: #393 funky chicken

If you can take 8 hours of strawberry picking, you're a lot better than I. After about 2 hours of that, my back is done for the day, which would certainly leave at least 3 hours for computer time.

I did manual labor when I was a kid (bailing hay) and in my 20s (beekeeping). I'm too well rounded (well, round) to do that work now.

402 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:28:15am

re: #392 funky chicken

It depends on what part of New Jersey; parts of Southern NJ are as bass-ackward as the Deep South, and NE NJ is not far from being Idaho as far as racists are concerned. I'm actually surprised at how many are seemingly located in Bergen County.

403 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:28:46am

re: #391 darthstar

Can I do the job and still get my daily three hours of facebook and LGF?

We'll get you a wireless set-up and a heads-up display with voice recognition software. But you won't be able to afford the equipment or batteries to power it on picker's wages!

(I picked strawberries for a bit while a teenager - got fired for picking too slow and being picky about berry quality going into the basket. Backbreaking work and awful hours.)

404 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:28:51am

re: #401 darthstar

As a teen in the middle of BFE the only work available during the summer was strawberry picking, bailing hay, and detasseling corn. Farm work bought my first car.

405 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:28:55am

re: #395 Decatur Deb

Where is Sussex County? We lived in Marlton (Burlington County), and there were synagogues, churches, a mosque or two, buddhist stuff, hindu stuff, etc. We had friends and my kids had classmates of all persuasions at their montessori schools. I saw on the SPLC map that there's supposedly a chapter of something called the "AC Skins" headquartered there...I can tell you that there's no way they are very demonstrative or vocal. It's just very much not that kind of place.

Ewww.

406 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:29:12am

re: #402 lawhawk

It depends on what part of New Jersey; parts of Southern NJ are as bass-ackward as the Deep South, and NE NJ is not far from being Idaho as far as racists are concerned. I'm actually surprised at how many are seemingly located in Bergen County.

Old times there are not forgotten.

[Link: www.njhallofshame.com...]

407 Simply Sarah  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:29:47am

re: #295 ralphieboy

Funny, because aside from the social/moral aspects, moit would seenm that a lot of gays would be naturally drawn to support the GOP over its stand for low taxes and small government.

Most of them do not have children, so they are not directly interested in the quality of local schools, nor are they buying homes in "family" neighborhoods.

And since they have no kids to "slow down" their career path, many of them are high earners, and are more interested in other forms of investing their money than college funds and mortgages.

Ah, but this isn't as true as you may think. Despite the stereotype of the well off, well educated, professional homosexual, quite a large percentage of the LGB community (And it's even worse in the broader trans and queer communities) are not in good financial positions. While news and entertainment media may focus on depicting those that are otherwise successful, that simply doesn't represent the average LGB person, just like how most non-LGB people/families aren't bringing in 6+ figure incomes. You have the fact that most people in general aren't really that well off, plus the fact that discrimination is still widespread. It just isn't as clearly visible because it's not something you can largely tell just be looking at someone.

You also have the fact that those LGB people that are successful can often be more open about themselves, at least in certain fields, due to significantly fewer worries about being unable to eat due to being fired for it.

408 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:30:57am

Erick son of Erik at Redstate has an interesting diary this morning. "My Confession" (why do republicans always talk so dirty?). When reading the comments, one can see the conservative base shattering like a fake swarovski crystal.

409 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:31:53am

re: #401 darthstar

I've heard bailing hay is in a class by itself. I've never done it myself, thank goodness.

410 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:33:11am

re: #404 RogueOne

As a teen in the middle of BFE the only work available during the summer was strawberry picking, bailing hay, and detasseling corn. Farm work bought my first car.

The nuns at our elementary reform school loaned us out to local farmers for a share of the crops. We did apples, scurrying through the trees without ladders, and followed the potato-digging machines to box the spuds. They were some of the best Summer days I remember. I don't think the idea would fly well in our liability-conscious era.

411 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:35:16am

re: #409 funky chicken

I've heard bailing hay is in a class by itself. I've never done it myself, thank goodness.

I've done a bit of that. ITCHY.

Only thing worse I ever did was when making vacuum cleaner attachments in a plastics plant. One piece was a head that included a horsehair brush - working that involved getting horsehair bits all over you eventually. Itch City there as well.

Sort of interesting how a few of my blue collar jobs have given me minor aversions to some products. Over familiarity breeding contempt. Not to mention enough exposure to nasty industrial products with insufficient protection to probably take years off my life and definitely having caused some hearing damage.

412 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:35:29am

re: #409 funky chicken

I've heard bailing hay is in a class by itself. I've never done it myself, thank goodness.

It's a pretty good workout, especially if you have an experienced crew with good equipment. Those guys haul ass.

413 iossarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:37:08am

re: #408 prairiefire

Erick son of Erik at Redstate has an interesting diary this morning. "My Confession" (why do republicans always talk so dirty?). When reading the comments, one can see the conservative base shattering like a fake swarovski crystal.

Romney? Newt? Perry? Strychnine?

The choices are thankfully not endless.

414 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:37:57am

re: #412 thedopefishlives

It's a pretty good workout, especially if you have an experienced crew with good equipment. Those guys haul ass.

IIRC, the baling machinery is among the top producers of serious farm accidents.

415 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:38:11am

re: #402 lawhawk

It depends on what part of New Jersey; parts of Southern NJ are as bass-ackward as the Deep South, and NE NJ is not far from being Idaho as far as racists are concerned. I'm actually surprised at how many are seemingly located in Bergen County.

I'm kinda wondering if the SPLC has registered "groups" of 3 meth-heads with mental illness problems as chapters of organized supremacist organizations. I guess it could be the skinheads are spread out as distribution centers for their product, and that's how they've popped up in places where they are just not representative of the community.

They've got an awful lot of chapters of "black separatist" groups operating in NJ too. I did quite a bit of volunteer work in Camden, and I guess I just never saw that kind of activity.

416 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:44:42am

re: #415 funky chicken

I'm kinda wondering if the SPLC has registered "groups" of 3 meth-heads with mental illness problems as chapters of organized supremacist organizations. I guess it could be the skinheads are spread out as distribution centers for their product, and that's how they've popped up in places where they are just not representative of the community.

They've got an awful lot of chapters of "black separatist" groups operating in NJ too. I did quite a bit of volunteer work in Camden, and I guess I just never saw that kind of activity.

The groups are largely self-identifying, since their main thrust is recruiting propaganda. Some, like the Phelps church or some of the Yahwists, are quite small but still dangerous. Distribution is as much a function of population density as anything else. While AL has only 35 or so mapped groups, we are probably near the top per capita. I could walk to the nearest above-ground klan HQ.

417 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:45:16am

re: #406 Decatur Deb

Old times there are not forgotten.

[Link: www.njhallofshame.com...]

The Bund’s headquarters were located in the Yorkville section of Manhattan, an enclave of German-American citizens, and recently immigrated Germans nationals. The Bund had other chapters in cities across the country with high populations of German immigrants. In New Jersey chapters were located in Clifton, Hackensack, Union City, Fairfield, North Bergen, Passaic, and Newark.


Incredibly, the Bund promoted itself as a pro-American organization, preaching the values of isolationism and nationalism, while conveniently slipping anti-Semitic and racist rhetoric into their public message. The Bund’s anti-war stance was, of course, merely an endeavor to keep the United States out of the war in Europe, so that Hitler might have his way with the entire continent, and ultimately the world.

Weren't Charles Lindbergh and Joseph Kennedy fans of these creeps?

418 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:45:39am

re: #414 Decatur Deb

IIRC, the baling machinery is among the top producers of serious farm accidents.

It's pretty high up there. It's a high-speed, time-sensitive operation with a LOT of moving parts. Thankfully, none of my hay-baling buddies have ever been injured in the field.

419 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:46:52am

re: #416 Decatur Deb

I meant methamphetamine was their main product. Or that was my guess. :-) I suppose it could be their creepy fliers as well.

420 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:47:25am

re: #417 funky chicken

Weren't Charles Lindbergh and Joseph Kennedy fans of these creeps?

Lindbergh more directly, Kennedy somewhat parallel in anti-British sympathy. The Kennedys were still Irish-Catholic immigrants to the hardcore. Lindbergh turned his back on the bundists and supported the war effort.

421 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:47:47am

re: #414 Decatur Deb

IIRC, the baling machinery is among the top producers of serious farm accidents.

The farmers stand at a respectful distance when it is processing. It is a very big machine.
Farming can be some very good money.

422 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:49:05am

re: #411 oaktree

I've done a bit of that. ITCHY.

Only thing worse I ever did was when making vacuum cleaner attachments in a plastics plant. One piece was a head that included a horsehair brush - working that involved getting horsehair bits all over you eventually. Itch City there as well.

Sort of interesting how a few of my blue collar jobs have given me minor aversions to some products. Over familiarity breeding contempt. Not to mention enough exposure to nasty industrial products with insufficient protection to probably take years off my life and definitely having caused some hearing damage.

I've got a master's in biochemistry. The smell of organic solvents sends me off the cliff to this day. I can smell a slightly open bottle of nail polish remover from across the house, I swear. Or a not perfectly capped gasoline can in the garage.

423 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:50:08am

Well, I'm off to get some work done. See ya later.

424 Four More Tears  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:55:41am

This makes life worth living:

[Link: dailydish.typepad.com...]

425 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:58:01am

re: #424 JasonA

This makes life worth living:

[Link: dailydish.typepad.com...]

I'll take "Horribly Disgusting Images I want to Burn out of my Brain Forever" for $500, Alex.

426 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:00:12am

re: #424 JasonA

This makes life worth living:

[Link: dailydish.typepad.com...]

ha!

427 kirkspencer  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:04:35am

re: #425 publicityStunted

I'll take "Horribly Disgusting Images I want to Burn out of my Brain Forever" for $500, Alex.

"What is 'Man on Dog', Alex."

428 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:22:44am

Perry is such a piece of santorum.

429 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:43:29am
Frank says:

Americans like to talk about (or be told about) Democracy but, when put to the test, usually find it to be an 'inconvenience.' We have opted instead for an authoritarian system disguised as a Democracy. We pay through the nose for an enormous joke-of-a-government, let it push us around, and then wonder how all those assholes got in there.

Frank's letting it all hang out lately.

430 engineer cat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:44:35am

re: #417 funky chicken

Weren't Charles Lindbergh and Joseph Kennedy fans of these creeps?

iirc kennedy came back from europe shortly before the war and made a statement to the press on how "democracy is finished". he then went to the white house and privately advised fdr to back hitler

the (probably apocryphal) story goes on to say that fdr told kennedy to wait, wheeled himself down to eleanor's room, and told her "kick that sonofabitch out of here for me will you please?"

in any case, kennedy was relieved of his post as ambassador to britain soon after

431 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:50:02am

re: #429 wrenchwench

Frank's letting it all hang out lately.

I like your new avatar!

432 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:50:23am

re: #422 funky chicken

I've got a master's in biochemistry. The smell of organic solvents sends me off the cliff to this day. I can smell a slightly open bottle of nail polish remover from across the house, I swear. Or a not perfectly capped gasoline can in the garage.

My pet one working there was being on a line that filled one gallon anti-freeze jugs. Improperly capped containers sloshed, and from moving them and packing them in boxes you got anti-freeze spilled on your hands constantly. I was sensitive enough to it that it felt like a burning sensation.

And then one day while I was down the road waiting for a ride home with my father I pulled the MSDS sheet on propylene glycol that was there were he worked (a plant that made aluminum flake). Anti-freeze is nasty stuff.

433 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:52:25am

re: #431 prairiefire

I like your new avatar!

Thanks!

You change yours so often I have to read your nic to recognize you. It's like an art gallery.

434 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:55:01am

re: #430 engineer dog

iirc kennedy came back from europe shortly before the war and made a statement to the press on how "democracy is finished". he then went to the white house and privately advised fdr to back hitler

the (probably apocryphal) story goes on to say that fdr told kennedy to wait, wheeled himself down to eleanor's room, and told her "kick that sonofabitch out of here for me will you please?"

in any case, kennedy was relieved of his post as ambassador to britain soon after

I always thought that Kennedy was an odd choice for that post. That he was anti-British was a known fact even before the appointment. But I guess his political support was worth getting a plum.

435 Simply Sarah  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:55:43am

Maybe I should think about setting something as an avatar at some point. Main reason I haven't is that I've got no clue what to use.

436 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:57:18am

re: #433 wrenchwench

If you squint and look at the small version of your avatar displayed in the comments header bar, it looks a little like a Darth Vader helmet :)

437 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:57:27am

re: #435 Simply Sarah

Maybe I should think about setting something as an avatar at some point. Main reason I haven't is that I've got no clue what to use.

When in doubt go Cat Overlord or Lizard. You can always change it later.

I'll be switching back to a Cat Overlord picture for a while in a few months to celebrate his 20th birthday.

438 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:59:50am

re: #436 publicityStunted

If you squint and look at the small version of your avatar displayed in the comments header bar, it looks a little like a Darth Vader helmet :)

So it does!

I can't find the photo my sister took when I made the one I'm using. Looks the same, except she's waving. Shows that she can take a photo with one hand!

439 Simply Sarah  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:59:57am

re: #437 oaktree

When in doubt go Cat Overlord or Lizard. You can always change it later.

I'll be switching back to a Cat Overlord picture for a while in a few months to celebrate his 20th birthday.

Heh, fair enough. Now, if only I could stop being so lazy about it...

440 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:02:38am

Prosecutors drop death penalty against convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu Jamal. He will spend the rest of his life in prison without parole.

The decision by District Attorney Seth Williams, made with the support of the officer's widow and the city police commissioner, comes after nearly 30 years of legal battles over the racially charged case.

Abu-Jamal was convicted of fatally shooting Philadelphia police Officer Daniel Faulkner on Dec. 9, 1981. He was sentenced to death after his trial the following year.

Abu-Jamal, who has been incarcerated in a Pennsylvania prison, has garnered worldwide support from those who believe he was the victim of a biased justice system.

Abu-Jamal, a one-time journalist, garnered worldwide support from the "Free Mumia" movement. Hundreds of vocal supporters and death-penalty opponents regularly turn out for court hearings in his case, even though Abu-Jamal is rarely entitled to attend.

441 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:02:53am

re: #439 Simply Sarah

Heh, fair enough. Now, if only I could stop being so lazy about it...

Or find a nice picture of a football and Photoshop it green... :)

[Link: www.catsrule.com...]
Like this maybe?

442 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:16:11am

Hooray! The concrete guys are taking down the forms today. I'll have access to my back garden and compost bin for the first time in weeks!

443 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:18:47am

re: #442 Killgore Trout

Hooray! The concrete guys are taking down the forms today. I'll have access to my back garden and compost bin for the first time in weeks!

You want to go outside. It is so stinking cold out there right now.

444 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:24:27am

re: #443 EmmmieG

You want to go outside. It is so stinking cold out there right now.

It's probably warm in the middle of the compost bin. (Speaking of stinking....)

445 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:27:17am

re: #443 EmmmieG

You want to go outside. It is so stinking cold out there right now.

It's pretty dreary out there.

446 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:28:49am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

It's pretty dreary out there.

While the fog is atmospheric and cool, nevertheless I get a chill going to get the mail.

447 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:29:45am

Tipping etiquette question: The concrete guys have been great and did a lot more work than originally planned. I'm planing on giving them each a $100 tip. Is there a proper way to do it or do I just fork it over and say thanks?

448 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:31:07am

Blagojevich is currently awaiting sentencing and the ongoing hearing has produced an interesting tidbit. His lawyers admit he's guilty of the charges, but are seeking mercy from the court.

Judge James Zagel signaled Tuesday he may be prepared to impose a stiff prison sentence, saying he thinks Blagojevich lied when he told jurors he never tried to sell or trade an appointment to President Barack Obama's vacated Senate seat for campaign cash or a top job.
Throughout the first day of his two-day sentencing hearing, the impeached executive-turned-reality TV star known for his jocular personality was somber and ill-at-ease, staring down at the floor. His wife sobbed as a letter from their daughter was read begging Zagel not to send Blagojevich to prison.

The hearing was a stark contrast to the circus atmosphere around Blagojevich's trials on multiple counts of corruption.

The conciliatory tone came as something of a surprise — just days after defense filings that, as many times before, stridently declared Blagojevich's innocence and said he had been duped by aides but never intended to cross any lines into illegality.

Attorney Sheldon Sorosky told Zagel it was illegal for Blagojevich to ask for a job for himself in exchange for naming Obama's replacement in the Senate.

"There's no doubt this is a crime to do this in relation to the Senate seat, we accept that," he said. "I am just saying that does not call for a 15- to 20-year jail" term as prosecutors have requested.

I say stick him with the maximum sentence. There's no reason to give him any leniency whatsoever. His only remorse is in being caught.

449 BishopX  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:31:12am

re: #447 Killgore Trout

Envelopes are classy. Don't give it to the foreman. Call it a bonus for good work, not a tip. Tips are for service jobs.

450 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:31:59am

re: #447 Killgore Trout

Tipping etiquette question: The concrete guys have been great and did a lot more work than originally planned. I'm planing on giving them each a $100 tip. Is there a proper way to do it or do I just fork it over and say thanks?

It would be nice to put inside a holiday gift card.

451 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:31:59am

re: #449 BishopX

Envelopes are classy. Don't give it to the foreman. Call it a bonus for good work, not a tip. Tips are for service jobs.

good advice.

452 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:32:39am

re: #449 BishopX

Envelopes are classy. Don't give it to the foreman. Call it a bonus pay for performance for good work, not a tip. Tips are for service jobs.

Bonuses make people mad. I read that somewhere...

453 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:33:22am

re: #450 Alouette

It would be nice to put inside a holiday gift card.

Maybe I'll just draw an x-mas tree on the envelope. I don't want to give the corporate fat cats at Hallmark my money.

454 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:34:06am

re: #452 wrenchwench

You get nothing. You lose. Good day sir! /willy wonka

455 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:36:06am

re: #453 Killgore Trout

Maybe I'll just draw an x-mas tree on the envelope. I don't want to give the corporate fat cats at Hallmark my money.

I love it when my grandkids send me homemade cards!

Speaking of which: I have sent presents to all of them except for the little girl in Alabama. Should I send her a cute outfit or a toy? (She is 2 years old)

456 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:38:12am

2011 sets a record for weather related natural disasters. 12 weather events topped $1 billion in damages. That's more than all of those that occurred in the 1980s (as adjusted for inflation).

The weather events include Hurricane Irene but so far don't include TS/Hurricane Lee or the freak Halloween eve snowstorm, which are each near $750 million apiece.

Extreme weather in America this year has killed more than 1,000 people, according to National Weather Service Director Jack Hayes. The dozen billion-dollar disasters alone add up to $52 billion in damage.

Expect to see a whole lot more of this in upcoming years as people continue to flock to shoreside communities despite the persistent hurricane threats, ongoing and persistent droughts, etc.

457 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:38:32am

Anyone know where you can find an outdoor solar Christmas Star topper? I can't find one anywhere.

458 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:39:47am

re: #455 Alouette

I love it when my grandkids send me homemade cards!

Speaking of which: I have sent presents to all of them except for the little girl in Alabama. Should I send her a cute outfit or a toy? (She is 2 years old)

If she's still young enough to prefer the wrapping to the gift, I'd go for the cute outfit.

459 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:39:55am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

Anyone know where you can find an outdoor solar Christmas Star topper? I can't find one anywhere.

Google is your friend.

460 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:40:46am

re: #455 Alouette

I love it when my grandkids send me homemade cards!

Speaking of which: I have sent presents to all of them except for the little girl in Alabama. Should I send her a cute outfit or a toy? (She is 2 years old)

Pillow pet. A really squishy soft one.

461 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:42:42am

re: #459 Alouette

Google is your friend.

Been there. No star tree toppers.

462 BishopX  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:43:12am

re: #455 Alouette

Invest in stuffed animals. Two years old outgrow clothes in the blink on an eye. A stuffed animal from grandma will stay with her through college.

463 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:43:21am

Afternoon Honcos.

465 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:45:48am

re: #463 Cannadian Club Akbar

Afternoon Honcos.

Already?? Shit!

Oh, wait. Not here...

466 Gepetto  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:47:48am

re: #105 ggt

And the State with what looks to be the 2nd highest "hate group" count from SPLC?

who's got the highest "hate group" count? California?

467 Flounder  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:48:33am

re: #463 Cannadian Club Akbar

Missed you!

468 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:49:53am

re: #467 Shropshire_Slasher

Missed you!

Reload!!!

469 Flounder  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:51:16am

re: #468 Cannadian Club Akbar
Aww cmon, I don't yell, I don't tell, and I'm grateful as hell!

470 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:51:59am

re: #466 Gepetto

who's got the highest "hate group" count? California?

Wait a second. Idaho only has 13? I thought Idaho was the epicenter.

471 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:55:13am

re: #470 EmmmieG

Wait a second. Idaho only has 13? I thought Idaho was the epicenter.

We've got a black separatist group right here in KC. I didn't know that.

472 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:56:18am

re: #470 EmmmieG

Wait a second. Idaho only has 13? I thought Idaho was the epicenter.

Florida has 49. I hate coming in second. I think I'll start a group!!!
///

473 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:56:46am

re: #471 prairiefire

We've got a black separatist group right here in KC. I didn't know that.

It looks like four of our 15 are Black Separatists.

Now, I have no idea how many people these different groups represent.

474 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:57:44am

re: #472 Cannadian Club Akbar

Florida has 49. I hate coming in second. I think I'll start a group!!!
///

I can think of all kinds of hate groups I could start, but I don't think the SPLC would list them.

"I hate trashy reality shows" group would have a lot of followers, but not make the list.

475 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:02:57am

re: #461 NJDhockeyfan

Been there. No star tree toppers.

Saw something like it at Big Lots a half hour ago. Don't know how regional they are.

476 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:03:49am

re: #472 Cannadian Club Akbar

Florida has 49. I hate coming in second. I think I'll start a group!!!
///

Recalculate on per-capita.

477 RanchTooth  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:10:44am

re: #456 lawhawk

Is it a fair comparison? I mean... things are more expensive now. The poor have cell phones that they lose in natural disasters, after all.

///

478 jamesfirecat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 1:51:27pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

Yeah it was a barn-burner in the original sense; That being the Dutch farmer who burned down his own barn to rid it of rats. Obama has shed much of the verbal moderation that made him popular in order to try to regain popularity. That would work, if Republicans were unable to respond effectively. But the GOP is able to respond and Obama's FDR analogy is ripe for dissection and derision. Obama think he's staked out good ground, but in reality he's just given Republicans new ways to pain him as left-wing and ineffectual on the economy. Just wait till Frank Lutz rolls out the talking points and Karl Rove rolls out the ads about this one, you'll see this speech rebound hard aginst Obama.

Why do you sound like you're admiring the people whose job it is to teach others how to lie?


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