Amen, preach it, brother!

TPM:

Gingrich: "I will ask John Bolton to be my Secretary of State."

re: #2 Charles

TPM:

So two posts in, you hijacked your own thread? (grin)

When in doubt, blame the Jews....
From Occupation to “Occupy”: The Israelification of American Domestic Security
By: Max Blumenthal

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

More from Mother Jones: Is Israel Responsible For The Occupy Crackdown

re: #4 Killgore Trout

When in doubt, blame the Jews...
From Occupation to “Occupy”: The Israelification of American Domestic Security
By: Max Blumenthal

The Jews made you post that, didn't they?

Oops, It's already been paged: Max Blumenthal's Latest Hoax Quote

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Jews made you post that, didn't they?

They gave me this spiffy new menorah!

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Oops, It's already been paged: Max Blumenthal's Latest Hoax Quote

I see the aigle-bot has been fine tuned to seem more like a "real" poster. It still has never posted a comment.

Koskidz have their own version of the Israeli influence on the OWS crackdown...
US Non-Lethal Weapons Training Began on October 1, 2008

re: #10 Alouette

I see the aigle-bot has been fine tuned to seem more like a "real" poster. It still has never posted a comment.

and unfortunately never posts more than a title and a URL.

Lol.

re: #2 Charles

TPM:

Great. Maybe Geller can be Secretary of Homeland Security. //

Image: 5292042265_a08474e0a7_z.jpg
Image: bolton-geller.jpg

"Happy end to the fiscal 4th Quarter 2011!". That just doesn't quite have the ring of "Happy Festivus (for the rest of us)!"

Iranian Press TV is more than happy to spread the news: Israel behind US police brutality

An investigative journalist says that police tactics used against peaceful Occupy protesters have brought to public attention the extreme militarization of US police, which is more suitable for counter-terrorism operations.

re: #14 CuriousLurker

Great. Maybe Geller can be Secretary of Homeland Security. //

Image: 5292042265_a08474e0a7_z.jpg
Image: bolton-geller.jpg

Make her the ambassador to Saudi Arabia. That would be hilarious.

re: #17 Lidane

Make her the ambassador to Saudi Arabia. That would be hilarious.

No.
Ambassador to Tamriel.
Bolton will be sent to Middle Earth to determine their threat to national security.

re: #17 Lidane

Make her the ambassador to Saudi Arabia. That would be hilarious.

She won't cover her hair, she won't eat halal...This is going to be tricky.

Also, as she's a Jew, they won't actually let her in the country.

Of course, pitting the two in a showdown would be fairly entertaining.

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

She won't cover her hair, she won't eat halal...This is going to be tricky.

Also, as she's a Jew, they won't actually let her in the country.

Of course, pitting the two in a showdown would be fairly entertaining.

Well she could conduct all her business from our Embassy there since she wouldn't technically "be in their country".

If Bolton won't take the job, just substitute a placard that say BOMB IRAN. Same difference.

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

She won't cover her hair, she won't eat halal...This is going to be tricky.

Also, as she's a Jew, they won't actually let her in the country.

Of course, pitting the two in a showdown would be fairly entertaining.

See? Hilarious.

Barack Obama should prove he has a sense of humor and send her off somewhere. Maybe Kenya. That would be awesome too.

OT: But this is a demonstration of why I have trouble taking the current Democrats as "good enough" as an alternative to the current Republicans.

re: #23 Simply Sarah

OT: But this is a demonstration of why I have trouble taking the current Democrats as "good enough" as an alternative to the current Republicans.

Are we after "good enough" or "only sane alternative"? There is a difference. Though it might be more along the lines of only way to vote to give an indication that the GOP might listen to that they are going the wrong way and way over the line to the point that Wake Island is threatening to capsize.

re: #23 Simply Sarah

OT: But this is a demonstration of why I have trouble taking the current Democrats as "good enough" as an alternative to the current Republicans.

I'm sorry, I'm not really sure what you mean. Do you mean good enough to vote for? If you vote for Democrats, you get grudgingly slow movement towards more accessible women's health care. Under the GOP, you get revanchist, radical moves to restrict women's health care.

Obviously, the Democrats need to be lobbied to take better and bolder stands on damn near everything, but in comparison to the GOP, they're definitely 'good enough'.

re: #25 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I'm not really sure what you mean. Do you mean good enough to vote for? If you vote for Democrats, you get grudgingly slow movement towards more accessible women's health care. Under the GOP, you get revanchist, radical moves to restrict women's health care.

Obviously, the Democrats need to be lobbied to take better and bolder stands on damn near everything, but in comparison to the GOP, they're definitely 'good enough'.

If my options are Group A, which openly says they hate me and will fuck me over, and Group B, which says they'll support me, but will actually still fuck me over in the end, can I pick none of the above?

And the Democrats haven't slowly increased access to women's health care. They've slowly and cowardly let it be limited by people attacking it in the name of fighting abortion. And even if there's progress, why should I be happy with progress so slow that it still might not fully be there in my lifetime? This is ridiculous.

re: #26 Simply Sarah

I suggest you join my "vote GOP and hasten the inevitable end" support group.

re: #26 Simply Sarah

If my options are Group A, which openly says they hate me and will fuck me over, and Group B, which says they'll support me, but will actually still fuck me over in the end, can I pick none of the above?

No. That would be the problem.

And Group A will fuck you over in immense, terrible ways, and group B will occasionally fuck you over in a much more limited fashion, and might actually be reformable with enough work.

And even if there's progress, why should I be happy with progress so slow that it still might not fully be there in my lifetime? This is ridiculous.

So what's your alternative?

OT, but what is the reason for the Obama-Harper News Conference?

re: #22 Lidane

See? Hilarious.

Barack Obama should prove he has a sense of humor and send her off somewhere. Maybe Kenya. That would be awesome too.

Somewhere with no booze.

re: #26 Simply Sarah

If my options are Group A, which openly says they hate me and will fuck me over, and Group B, which says they'll support me, but will actually still fuck me over in the end, can I pick none of the above?

And the Democrats haven't slowly increased access to women's health care. They've slowly and cowardly let it be limited by people attacking it in the name of fighting abortion. And even if there's progress, why should I be happy with progress so slow that it still might not fully be there in my lifetime? This is ridiculous.

A valid point, and the first paragraph appears to be where albussteve is coming from in most of his posts. However, "none of the above" appears to lead to Group A and a definite fate whereas Group B appears to give some hope of lessening the damage and perhaps getting change to occur.

Progressiveism in the United States has been painful, slow, and resisted at every turn. Generally a "two steps forward, one step back" process where things improve over the long term - or essentially need to build up pressure until a revolutionary event occurs that shifts the political landscape almost like a tectonic plate slipping with the resultant earthquake.

re: #29 ProLifeLiberal

OT, but what is the reason for the Obama-Harper News Conference?

Pandering is important business with election coming up next year.

re: #28 Obdicut

No. That would be the problem.

And Group A will fuck you over in immense, terrible ways, and group B will occasionally fuck you over in a much more limited fashion, and might actually be reformable with enough work.

So what's your alternative?

Well, clearly my only options are to mold the Democrats into something I can live with or get another option. You must understand, this is as much me being frustrated and exasperated by seeing this happen yet again as it is anything else.

I mean, it's really a small comfort when the people you vote for to further your positions stab you in the back, even if the wound isn't as bad as the other people stabbing me in the front.

re: #32 Killgore Trout

No, really. It seems out of the blue. Has some agreement been made on something?

Also, Mexico caught something special:

AJELive AJELive
#Mexico foils plan to smuggle in #Saadi #Gaddafi into the country aje.me/rP00L8 #Libya

re: #33 Simply Sarah

Well, clearly my only options are to mold the Democrats into something I can live with or get another option.

What would that other option be? In our two-party dominated system, the other option is the GOP.

You must understand, this is as much me being frustrated and exasperated by seeing this happen yet again as it is anything else.

I know it's frustrating, but look at human history. Look at human biology, what we're working with. Collective organization is very, very, very hard. It's not a reason to give up on your ideals, but the only way to achieve anything ideal is collective action, not Balkanization.

I mean, it's really a small comfort when the people you vote for to further your positions stab you in the back, even if the wound isn't as bad as the other people stabbing me in the front.

It's really a huge comfort to me that we have Obama and not McCain as president right now. It isn't to you? You really don't think he's significantly the better option?

Also, Tripoli is having an Occupy Protest.

However, the goal of this one is militia disarmament and a national military.

re: #34 ProLifeLiberal

No, really. It seems out of the blue. Has some agreement been made on something?

Also, Mexico caught something special:

Ah, That's probably it.

re: #34 ProLifeLiberal

The Mexicans busted a plot to smuggle him in, but he's apparently still somewhere in Niger, and the Niger govt is affording him refuge despite the crimes he may have committed in the name of his dad's regime.

re: #29 ProLifeLiberal

OT, but what is the reason for the Obama-Harper News Conference?

Keystone Pipeline.

re: #33 Simply Sarah

I read this story earlier, and I'm not sure it really is an example of Dems caving in to the anti-women's rights crowd. Sebelius said the reason why she denied the OTC application was because the drug hadn't been properly tested on very young girls. This could have been a cover statement, I guess, but it doesn't sound that unbelievable.

I agree that the Democrats are way too timid about fighting for these issues, and this looks like such a case at first glance, but it's not unreasonable to be concerned about the effects of the drug on young girls.

re: #38 lawhawk

The Mexicans busted a plot to smuggle him in, but he's apparently still somewhere in Niger, and the Niger govt is affording him refuge despite the crimes he may have committed in the name of his dad's regime.

It does seem odd that he planned to go to Mexico of all places. There must have been a real shortage of good places to hide.

re: #38 lawhawk

Yeah, that has me ticked off.

I suppose, we should twist Niger's arm by holding any aid that they get from us, but I don't want to punish the people for the government. Especially for such a poor and weak nation.

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Trying to become a Drug Lord? Or many was going to help advise one?

re: #35 Obdicut

What would that other option be? In our two-party dominated system, the other option is the GOP.

Just to add to the conversation: It seems a lot easier to actually influence/lobby/subvert a political party in the US than in countries with multiple parties (where the parties are usually much more closed entities).

re: #41 Killgore Trout

It does seem odd that he planned to go to Mexico of all places. There must have been a real shortage of good places to hide.

What's the world come to when a wannabe dictator can't find refuge???
/

re: #42 ProLifeLiberal

Yeah, that has me ticked off.

I suppose, we should twist Niger's arm by holding any aid that they get from us, but I don't want to punish the people for the government. Especially for such a poor and weak nation.

How soon before millions of people receive spam emails claiming to be from him asking to help move his money?

re: #43 ProLifeLiberal

Trying to become a Drug Lord? Or many was going to help advise one?

My only guess is that Mexico might have all the security money can buy. I wouldn't be surprised if he did have an arrangement with the cartels.

re: #46 Alouette

Maybe never. What his family did to Libya was heard around the world.

Considering that, many would just dump the email.

re: #35 Obdicut

What would that other option be? In our two-party dominated system, the other option is the GOP.

In a situation where the Democrats won't change and I won't have other options? I wouldn't vote. That's a case where the system quite literally will screw me over no matter what and I'm not going to legitimize it just so I can get a somewhat less bad option. If the house of cards is coming down either way, then I'd rather get it over with than have a slow bleed.

I know it's frustrating, but look at human history. Look at human biology, what we're working with. Collective organization is very, very, very hard. It's not a reason to give up on your ideals, but the only way to achieve anything ideal is collective action, not Balkanization.

Sure, but that doesn't mean I need to go along with the flow over the cliff.

It's really a huge comfort to me that we have Obama and not McCain as president right now. It isn't to you? You really don't think he's significantly the better option?

He's better, but on the other hand, I fear he's simply helping to solidify the new definitions of left and right in the U.S. His positions are becoming the far left of "mainstream" political thought to many Americans and that will make it even harder to fight back against the rather rapid shift to the right we've been experiencing.

re: #47 Killgore Trout

That would be cause for more aid to Mexico to fight the Cartels. Along with Drug Reform here.

Of course, aid to Mexico would include helping reform the corrupted system.

re: #48 ProLifeLiberal

Maybe never. What his family did to Libya was heard around the world.

Considering that, many would just dump the email.

I'm not saying that he himself would send the email. Spammers will often impersonate notorious people. For example, I have received a spam email from someone claiming to be Suha Arafat, but obviously was not.

re: #40 Charles

I think the "concern for young girls" factor scores substantially lower than the "fear of attack ads claiming Dems are encouraging your 11-year-old to have sex" factor in the decision-making process.

I, too, get frustrated with Democratic timidity, but the answer is not really to castigate them, it's to remind everyone who will listen that the Republicans are a bunch of evil, lying bastards. Which sucks if you're an Eisenhower Republican, but frankly, that boat sailed a long time ago.

re: #33 Simply Sarah

Well, clearly my only options are to mold the Democrats into something I can live with or get another option. You must understand, this is as much me being frustrated and exasperated by seeing this happen yet again as it is anything else.

I mean, it's really a small comfort when the people you vote for to further your positions stab you in the back, even if the wound isn't as bad as the other people stabbing me in the front.

Its frustrating, but look at history. Teddy Roosevelt couldn't get a 3rd party going. Ross Perot failed. Ralph Nader got just enough votes to make Dubya President. Your options are to join a third party and hope the GOP collapses under the weight of its own insanity to create an opening, join the Democrats and try to move the already sane party along faster, or join the insane party and try to nudge it back towards sanity.

re: #51 Alouette

Well, considering that story, maybe the end of the year. However, they will probably be small in number. I would imagine fewer spammers use a semi-well known person.

re: #50 ProLifeLiberal

Aid is a two-edged sword. It can actually help a system sustain corruption.

re: #40 Charles

I read this story earlier, and I'm not sure it really is an example of Dems caving in to the anti-women's rights crowd. Sebelius said the reason why she denied the OTC application was because the drug hadn't been properly tested on very young girls. This could have been a cover statement, I guess, but it doesn't sound that unbelievable.

I agree that the Democrats are way too timid about fighting for these issues, and this looks like such a case at first glance, but it's not unreasonable to be concerned about the effects of the drug on young girls.

I'll be honest., I don't really buy the given reasoning. From the article:

Under the law, Ms. Sebelius has the authority to overrule the agency, but no health secretary has ever done so, according to an F.D.A. spokeswoman.

That fact alone makes me extraordinarily suspicious, especially since I know the administration has demonstrated some waffling on contraceptive issues recently. The doctors and scientists at the FDA said it's safe and, while I admit I don't exactly have the greatest amount of trust in the FDA, I find it very, very interesting that this happens to be the issue that we all need to stop and re-evaluate them on.

re: #49 Simply Sarah

That's a case where the system quite literally will screw me over no matter what and I'm not going to legitimize it just so I can get a somewhat less bad option.

Why not? For example, black people didn't have a party that actually represented them equally up until about the 1960s. They might have had individual politicians that were good or bad for them, but both parties were part and parcel of racist policies.

Do you think black people would have gained advancement in this country faster through principled non-participation? By never voting for either party, because of their compromised nature?

Sure, but that doesn't mean I need to go along with the flow over the cliff.

This is the bit I don't get. What does not voting get you? How do you not go over the cliff in this scenario?

He's better, but on the other hand, I fear he's simply helping to solidify the new definitions of left and right in the U.S.

His recent speeches have been pretty lefty-lefty. But anyway, he's not really more 'right' than Clinton was. He's definitely more pro-regulation on financial industries, for example.

His positions are becoming the far left of "mainstream" political thought to many Americans and that will make it even harder to fight back against the rather rapid shift to the right we've been experiencing.

The Overton Window is not something that's real, you know. It describes an effect that can manifest sometimes, but it's not the dominant framing device of all political thought.

Maybe if Obama staked out a stronger 'left' position, things would be better. Maybe not. A lot has actually happened under him, even with the GOP being massively obstructionist.

re: #41 Killgore Trout

It does seem odd that he planned to go to Mexico of all places. There must have been a real shortage of good places to hide.

Why does it seem odd? He could easily blend in with the locals, live high on the hog relatively cheaply in some amazingly some gorgeous places, there are plenty of corrupt palms he can grease, and there are established Arab communities galore from Mexico to South America. What's not to like?

re: #53 aagcobb

When the GOP lost most recently, that's when they doubled up on the insanity, presumably not conservative (fundamentally religious) enough. I imagine if they lose big again women can no longer vote, children will be sent to coal mines and orphanages, gays will be stoned, globes will be flat, and mandatory public prayer will be suggested as ways to get America back on its feet (and let those "job creators" get back to creatin').

They're only going to go more backwards. Really.

re: #49 Simply Sarah

In a situation where the Democrats won't change and I won't have other options? I wouldn't vote. That's a case where the system quite literally will screw me over no matter what and I'm not going to legitimize it just so I can get a somewhat less bad option. If the house of cards is coming down either way, then I'd rather get it over with than have a slow bleed.

Sure, but that doesn't mean I need to go along with the flow over the cliff.

He's better, but on the other hand, I fear he's simply helping to solidify the new definitions of left and right in the U.S. His positions are becoming the far left of "mainstream" political thought to many Americans and that will make it even harder to fight back against the rather rapid shift to the right we've been experiencing.

I guess that is a heighten the contradictions position. Establish the Democrats as a solid left party that pushes policies that work well all over the world but are demonized as ebil comunism here, then wait while the GOP drives the nation into a Great Depression so that out of desperation the people will finally accept the only other alternative. I'd prefer to muddle through as best we can with Obama.

re: #58 CuriousLurker

Why does it seem odd? He could easily blend in with the locals, live high on the hog relatively cheaply in some amazingly some gorgeous places, there are plenty of corrupt palms he can grease, and there are established Arab communities galore from Mexico to South America. What's not to like?

Well, American DEA agents are all over the place, close proximity to the US means it's easy to reach out and touch him. Although money does buy a lot of security in Mexico it also means that informants would also sell him out for a few bucks. Usually these guys retire to a country with a solid stable dictator who can keep them safe. Mexico seems like a big gamble. I would think Venezuela would have been a nice choice.

A song for all jaded cynics and romantic idealists alike:

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Well, American DEA agents are all over the place, close proximity to the US means it's easy to reach out and touch him. Although money does buy a lot of security in Mexico it also means that informants would also sell him out for a few bucks. Usually these guys retire to a country with a solid stable dictator who can keep them safe. Mexico seems like a big gamble. I would think Venezuela would have been a nice choice.

He can come to Endor.
Got some teddy bears he can mess with.
/I'm baaaddddd.

re: #59 theheat

I agree; it would take a concerted effort by millions of centrists to take the GOP back from the atavistic forces that currently have it in their grasp.

re: #64 aagcobb

Those centrists haven't raised much of stink, therefore I don't believe enough of them give a shit enough to try to wrestle their party from assholes. The centrists have been impotent and/or ineffective. Meanwhile, the radicals are the party.

re: #48 ProLifeLiberal

Maybe never. What his family did to Libya was heard around the world.

Considering that, many would just dump the email.

The Nigerian Prince letter scams are reliant on pure greed and stupidity. I heard from 'members of Saddam Hussein's family', as we were still driving toward Baghdad. Doubt being infamous hurts business much. Remember, we're talking about fishing for folks who still think these things are real. I don't know how savvy they are about Libya.

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

The Nigerian Prince letter scams are reliant on pure greed and stupidity. I heard from 'members of Saddam Hussein's family', as we were still driving toward Baghdad. Doubt being infamous hurts business much. Remember, we're talking about fishing for folks who still think these things are real. I don't know how savvy they are about Libya.

"Come to Crazy Hussein's Chemical and Bio Weapons Emporium! EVERYTHING MUST GO BLOWOUT(UP) SALE!"

re: #57 Obdicut

Why not? For example, black people didn't have a party that actually represented them equally up until about the 1960s. They might have had individual politicians that were good or bad for them, but both parties were part and parcel of racist policies.

Do you think black people would have gained advancement in this country faster through principled non-participation? By never voting for either party, because of their compromised nature?

Perhaps, perhaps not. But a lot of changes made then seemed less about the *black vote* as they were about other factors. Never mind how hard it was (And seems to be moving back towards again) for them to vote in many places at the time.

This is the bit I don't get. What does not voting get you? How do you not go over the cliff in this scenario?

I just see little value in supporting groups that really aren't interested in being my allies, even if they won't hurt me as badly. Hell, sometimes they can hurt me worse, since they have some degree of political cover.

His recent speeches have been pretty lefty-lefty. But anyway, he's not really more 'right' than Clinton was. He's definitely more pro-regulation on financial industries, for example.

The Overton Window is not something that's real, you know. It describes an effect that can manifest sometimes, but it's not the dominant framing device of all political thought.

Maybe if Obama staked out a stronger 'left' position, things would be better. Maybe not. A lot has actually happened under him, even with the GOP being massively obstructionist.

Part of my problem is the disconnect between his speeches and what the administration then ends up doing.

In regards to the Overton Window, I have to disagree, in part. Abortion, for example, is a topic where a very vocal and strong anti-choice movement has moved the country towards a more anti-choice position. If people are only exposed to ideas ranging from far right to center right, many people are, in fact, going to assume that's the valid range for ideas that aren't "extreme". The working class was convinced that tax cuts for big business and the rich were in their best interests overnight.

Sure, some of this is just a reflection of the times, but it's not all of it.

And I understand the GOP has basically prevented anything from happening, but this was a case where something actually could happen. A place to demonstrate some level of commitment to this sort of issue.

re: #65 theheat

Those centrists haven't raised much of stink, therefore I don't believe enough of them give a shit enough to try to wrestle their party from assholes. The centrists have been impotent and/or ineffective. Meanwhile, the radicals are the party.

Yep, the GOP is firmly in the grasp of the neo-confederates, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

From Twitter:

@LOLGOP Pete Nicely
S&P downgrades Mitt Romney's campaign to "impending Greek tragedy."

Basically, if you're going to tell me the current Democrats are the best I'm gonna get, no matter what, then I've already lost and, quite honestly, don't see much reason fighting. I refuse to accept that. I am going to work to change things and I'm going to do it or die trying. I have no interest in simply settling and accepting "less evil".

re: #41 Killgore Trout

It does seem odd that he planned to go to Mexico of all places. There must have been a real shortage of good places to hide.

Mexico is actually a beautiful country, and a great place to live if you're fabulously wealthy. Niger?

re: #71 Simply Sarah

Basically, if you're going to tell me the current Democrats are the best I'm gonna get, no matter what, then I've already lost and, quite honestly, don't see much reason fighting. I refuse to accept that. I am going to work to change things and I'm going to do it or die trying. I have no interest in simply settling and accepting "less evil".

That's what you should do. That's what OWS has done; now people are finally talking about issues that have been ignored while the politicians have obsessed about the budget deficit.

re: #71 Simply Sarah

#ows

re: #73 aagcobb

That's what you should do. That's what OWS has done; now people are finally talking about issues that have been ignored while the politicians have obsessed about the budget deficit.

Sure, but I sort of feel that even here I'm getting quite a bit of push back for stating that I'm unhappy with my current options. Obviously, I plan to try and change my options, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about how they are right now, does it?

re: #68 Simply Sarah

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Really? You honestly feel that if black people didn't vote, that things would have gotten better for them quicker?

How?

I just see little value in supporting groups that really aren't interested in being my allies, even if they won't hurt me as badly.

I understand this is your position. I'm asking you why. If I have the option of a thousand units of pain vs. 1 unit of pain, I'll take the one unit of pain.

n regards to the Overton Window, I have to disagree, in part. Abortion, for example, is a topic where a very vocal and strong anti-choice movement has moved the country towards a more anti-choice position.

But that's an assertion, not a fact. You think that that's what's happened, but you don't actually know if that is cause and effect or not.

If people are only exposed to ideas ranging from far right to center right, many people are, in fact, going to assume that's the valid range for ideas that aren't "extreme".

Again, the Overton Window is a nifty way to think about things, but it's not a scientific instrument. It's something someone came up with that seems to make sense, but it's never actually been really tested and shown to be real. We certainly see times where due to overreach, the GOP has fallen flat, like with the personhood amendment being rejected, with Ohio's anti-union stuff being shot down.

re: #71 Simply Sarah

Basically, if you're going to tell me the current Democrats are the best I'm gonna get, no matter what, then I've already lost and, quite honestly, don't see much reason fighting. I refuse to accept that. I am going to work to change things and I'm going to do it or die trying. I have no interest in simply settling and accepting "less evil".

So if you refuse to accept that, and you're going to work to change things, how would not voting-- or voting for a third party in a way that makes it more likely for the GOP to win-- achieve your goals?

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Well, American DEA agents are all over the place, close proximity to the US means it's easy to reach out and touch him. Although money does buy a lot of security in Mexico it also means that informants would also sell him out for a few bucks. Usually these guys retire to a country with a solid stable dictator who can keep them safe. Mexico seems like a big gamble. I would think Venezuela would have been a nice choice.

Depends on his connections and how many billions he has squirreled away. With Chavez having cancer, Venezuela might not be looking so good to him right now.

re: #75 Simply Sarah

Sure, but I sort of feel that even here I'm getting quite a bit of push back for stating that I'm unhappy with my current options. Obviously, I plan to try and change my options, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about how they are right now, does it?

If you think I'm 'pushing back' because you're stating you're unhappy, then you're not really reading my posts. Which is a shame, because they smell great.

I'm saying that the answer to the question "Why would I choose the party that fucks me over a little instead of the party that fucks me over a lot?" is a relatively obvious one: So that you wind up less fucked over.

The "Reason Foundation" is pimping today (through PRNewsire) quite a piece of work: How IPCC Reports Mislead the Public, Exaggerate the Negative Impacts of Climate Change and Ignore the Benefits of Economic Growth

For example, the author keeps referring to the "IPCC" even when what is being referenced isn't necessarily from the IPCC!

A classic of misinformation, Goebbels would be proud.

re: #75 Simply Sarah

Sure, but I sort of feel that even here I'm getting quite a bit of push back for stating that I'm unhappy with my current options. Obviously, I plan to try and change my options, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about how they are right now, does it?

Every American has the right to complain, and most do; a lot! ;)

re: #78 CuriousLurker

With Chavez having cancer, Venezuela might not be looking so good to him right now.

Good point

re: #79 Obdicut

If you think I'm 'pushing back' because you're stating you're unhappy, then you're not really reading my posts. Which is a shame, because they smell great.

I'm saying that the answer to the question "Why would I choose the party that fucks me over a little instead of the party that fucks me over a lot?" is a relatively obvious one: So that you wind up less fucked over.

I'm reading them, I'm just doing a bad job explaining my thoughts.

Put simply, I will vote for those people that I feel would actually work to help advance my goals, positions, and needs.

I'm not saying I won't vote for "the lesser of two evils". However, that only applies if I feel such a vote is making the best of a bad specific situation, rather than just a reflection of a systemic problem. I'm still pragmatic, but I also see no value in buying into a perpetual system of picking bad and worst. I have to fight to change the system so that's no longer the case. And that may mean voting for a third party to demonstrate my opposition to both existing parties, even if it makes worst win that contest.

re: #83 Simply Sarah

And that may mean voting for a third party to demonstrate my opposition to both existing parties, even if it makes worst win that contest.

And how does that actually do anything? Can you point to a time in history when due to voting for a third party, a party reformed?

re: #75 Simply Sarah

Sure, but I sort of feel that even here I'm getting quite a bit of push back for stating that I'm unhappy with my current options. Obviously, I plan to try and change my options, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about how they are right now, does it?

I hope you don't consider my comment in the last thread as "push back". I worked on creating a third party for a few years. I thought it was making great progress, but it blew up in 1984 when half the delegates at the national convention wanted to support Jesse Jackson in the Democratic primary instead of our own candidate, who remains lost in obscurity. (Oh, wait! She's in Wikipedia!) I was just preparing you for the battle, with information, and noting that I now think it would be easier to move the Democrats than start another party.

Looks like our disk-based friend is having a good time.

re: #86 Simply Sarah

Looks like our disk-based friend is having a good time.

I just noticed that too. He's found the dinger, and he's giving it a workout!

re: #84 Obdicut

And how does that actually do anything? Can you point to a time in history when due to voting for a third party, a party reformed?

First time for everything. That and I'm pretty seriously opposed to our two party system in general. I know it's not something that can be done overnight, or maybe ever, especially since the two major parties have a lot invested in keeping things the way they currently are. But I'm still young and foolish enough to feel the system can change, damn it!

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Good point

I'm also thinking: Friends in high places (government and/or criminal), a little plastic surgery, some new papers, a nice little villa in an out of the way place that's hard to sneak up on and has lots of guards... It could certainly backfire, but it seems that he likes the good life & partying, so he might be weak enough in that regard to put himself at risk for the sake of self-indulgence.

1.44MB of Derp.

The author, btw, works for the United States government.

Thought that might be interesting.

The problem is he (Goklany) is a classic example of someone who has some credibility in one field, but, because of some need to support a political agenda/viewpoint, starts to use that connection to branch out and become a tool for others to use.

In particular, as a policy analyst he is well experienced in formally (logically) comparing A vs. B, for example, but he doesn't necessarily have the background to appreciate how the facts/proposals of A or B have come about. His formal training is in EE, but he seems to write about economics quite a bit. Problem is he doesn't seem to approach economic projections with even the amount of skepticism that economists treat economics!

He's become a favorite of the CEI, WFTUWT, etc. because he writes extensively against AGW mitigation attempts, instead focusing on the need for adaptation to "GW" (he likes to leave out the "A") through increased population and development (read "exploitation") of resources. Thus more use of fossil fuels is the way to a better future. No wonder the Koch bro. funded orgs like him so much.

And yes, he's a policy wonk for your Interior Department.

re: #90 Varek Raith

1.44MB of Derp.

SS/DD

re: #85 wrenchwench

I hope you don't consider my comment in the last thread as "push back". I worked on creating a third party for a few years. I thought it was making great progress, but it blew up in 1984 when half the delegates at the national convention wanted to support Jesse Jackson in the Democratic primary instead of our own candidate, who remains lost in obscurity. (Oh, wait! She's in Wikipedia!) I was just preparing you for the battle, with information, and noting that I now think it would be easier to move the Democrats than start another party.

Nah, I got that you wanted to make sure I was aware it would be a long, hard road and that it may not end up where I expected/hoped it would. Better than letting me run off all full of innocence and naivety, only to be crushed hard by reality.

And it may very well be easier to move the Democrats. I just feel that's not best done just by voting for someone with D instead of R next to their name, since that can just result in the "blue dog" style Democrat that doesn't seem much better than a Republican.

re: #83 Simply Sarah

I'm still pragmatic, but I also see no value in buying into a perpetual system of picking bad and worst. I have to fight to change the system so that's no longer the case. And that may mean voting for a third party to demonstrate my opposition to both existing parties, even if it makes worst win that contest.

In 2000 I felt the way you do now, voted for Nader and arrogantly told myself and others that things had to get worse before they could get better.

They got a whole lot worse and the attendant societal epiphany I was subconsciously hoping for never materialized. I now realize that acting against your own best outcome is exactly what it sounds like, counterproductive. Protest votes are the most useless kind of disaffected narcissism, no matter how you try to sell the idea to yourself. This isn't a parliamentary system, there are no coalition governments and nobody in power will ever care about the desires of people who can't be bothered to try and sway the final outcome in the general direction of their own self interest.

ROFL. I can't wait for the Romney response:

Gingrich: ‘I Helped Mitt Romney Get To Be Rich’ By Passing Reagan’s Economic Plans In The ’80s

So, Mitt's gone and used Kid Rock's Born Free song as for his campaign. Kid Rock has responded as only Kid Rock could. He's okay with it, but note the end:

“He and anyone else who wants to use my song do not need my permission. I said he could use it and I would say the same for any other candidate. I have to have a little faith that every candidate feels like he or she can help this country. Without faith, we got nothing. I make music to have it be heard. Merry Christmas folks! Rock on.
-Kid Rock

PS: Any candidate who makes “So Hott” their theme song has a good chance of getting my vote.

Bawitdaba would work for me. /

re: #92 lawhawk

SS/DD

Nah, DS/HD - all sides of him are, like, totally dense. Could's used his head the other day. I was having a heck of time finding a floppy that was still good enough to make a boot floppy for my SE/30.

re: #88 Simply Sarah

First time for everything.

No, there really isn't. Many things will simply never happen.

That and I'm pretty seriously opposed to our two party system in general.

Me too.

I know it's not something that can be done overnight, or maybe ever, especially since the two major parties have a lot invested in keeping things the way they currently are. But I'm still young and foolish enough to feel the system can change, damn it!

I think it can change to. I'm just at a loss as to how not voting or voting for obscure candidates is going to work. I think Elizabeth Warren is going to have a hell of a lot more effect on the fabric of US politics than Matt Gonzalez. And she's not going to win in a walk. She needs help. So I'm going to work to support her, even though the Democratic party isn't anything like my ideal party. And I'm going to give money to the Democrats at large because the GOP is so fucking terrible, and everywhere they gain control they actively attempt to subvert rights to voting, abortion access, and basic health and human services. And I'd prefer that didn't happen.

@LOLGOP Pete Nicely

The best part about new seasons is watching Mitt Romney change.

re: #94 goddamnedfrank

In 2000 I felt the way you do now, voted for Nader and arrogantly told myself and others that things had to get worse before they could get better.

They got a whole lot worse and the attendant societal epiphany I was subconsciously hoping for never materialized. I now realize that acting against your own best outcome is exactly what it sounds like, counterproductive. Protest votes are the most useless kind of disaffected narcissism, no matter how you try to sell the idea to yourself. This isn't a parliamentary system, there are no coalition governments and nobody in power will ever care about the desires of people who can't be bothered to try and sway the final outcome in the general direction of their own self interest.

I admit that there is a lot of truth for that, although third parties at a more local level actually get somewhere at times.

That being said, I think part of the problem is that the Democrats became so focused on how "Nader cost us the election" that they neglected to look at, you know, why people voted for him to start with.

And it works both ways. I think a lot of people that vote Republican don't support their radical positions, but they're not really moderating the party by those votes. It's just feeding the GOP's ability to move further and further over to please a base that wants it, knowing that lots of less radical people will vote for them anyway.

re: #96 lawhawk

So, Mitt's gone and used Kid Rock's Born Free song as for his campaign. Kid Rock has responded as only Kid Rock could. He's okay with it, but note the end:

Bawitdaba would work for me. /

Some Monster Magnet would work for me.

Rest in peace, Colonel.

DOJ Warns Alabama Police About Expensive Consequences Of Discriminating While Enforcing Immigration Law

I believe that the vast majority of of law enforcement officers live up to their oath to protect and to serve all persons with whom they interact. I am, however, writing to remind you that as you implement these provisions, you and your officers have a continuing responsibility to comply with the Constitution and the laws of the United States.

The Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice is closely monitoring the impact of H.B. 56 in a number of areas to ensure compliance with the applicable civil rights laws, including to ensure that law enforcement agencies are not implementing the law in a manner that has the purpose or effect of discriminating against the Latino or any other community. We are also very concerned about the impact of H.B. 56 on victims of crime, in particular in cases of sexual assault and domestic violence.

As a recipient of federal financial assistance, your agency is required to comply with various non-discrimination requirements under federal statutes and regulations . . . . The federal government may, in some circumstances, terminate federal funds or bring a civil lawsuit in federal court seeking affirmative relief to enforce [these laws].

re: #102 darthstar

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

re: #103 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

DOJ Warns Alabama Police About Expensive Consequences Of Discriminating While Enforcing Immigration Law

I think they learned their lesson...no more arresting German Automobile company executives.

re: #98 Obdicut

No, there really isn't. Many things will simply never happen.

I really, really hate that word never.

Me too.

I think it can change to. I'm just at a loss as to how not voting or voting for obscure candidates is going to work. I think Elizabeth Warren is going to have a hell of a lot more effect on the fabric of US politics than Matt Gonzalez. And she's not going to win in a walk. She needs help. So I'm going to work to support her, even though the Democratic party isn't anything like my ideal party. And I'm going to give money to the Democrats at large because the GOP is so fucking terrible, and everywhere they gain control they actively attempt to subvert rights to voting, abortion access, and basic health and human services. And I'd prefer that didn't happen.

Elizabeth Warren is someone I support in general and I will vote for her next year. I will find a way to support her campaign in other ways, as well. But this is because I feel she would help represent my interests.

I don't mean I just won't vote at all. Or that I won't support Democrats in primaries that I feel represent me. Or that I won't vote for a Democrat in the general election. I'm just saying that if presented with a race where I feel the Democrat would harm me and drag things backwards, I'm not really going to feel much desire to vote or volunteer for them.

I suppose saying I wouldn't vote was an extreme statement made in frustration and with a bit of a straw man in mind, but working to give the Democrats a majority somewhere just so they can ignore me isn't high on my list of things to do.

Over the top?

War on Iran has already begun. Act before it threatens all of us

re: #107 freetoken

Over the top?

War on Iran has already begun. Act before it threatens all of us

now, later, whenever...it's going to happen

re: #106 Simply Sarah

I really, really hate that word never.

Okay. It's still true that many, many things will never happen.

Elizabeth Warren is someone I support in general and I will vote for her next year. I will find a way to support her campaign in other ways, as well. But this is because I feel she would help represent my interests.

Oh. Are you only into voting out of pure self-interest? Like, whoever represents your views the most, you vote for them, not who you think would be better for the country?

I'm just saying that if presented with a race where I feel the Democrat would harm me and drag things backwards, I'm not really going to feel much desire to vote or volunteer for them.

I"m sorry, but I can't imagine a race where the Democrats would drag things backwards compared to the GOP.

I suppose saying I wouldn't vote was an extreme statement made in frustration and with a bit of a straw man in mind, but working to give the Democrats a majority somewhere just so they can ignore me isn't high on my list of things to do.

The reason to do it would be to stop the horrific laws the GOP has been passing that restrict women's access to abortion, for example. The over-the-counter pill is a nifty idea, but it needs to be combined with education and prosletyization. Just allowing it isn't actually going to change abortion access that much, whereas the laws that the GOP are passing really are having a surpressive effect.

re: #107 freetoken

Over the top?

War on Iran has already begun. Act before it threatens all of us

About the author:

Seumas Milne, the Guardian's most Left-wing columnist, is one of those writers who doesn't know when he's lost. This is the man who, as comment editor of the Guardian, used 9/11 to launch a sustained attack on the United States for bringing it on itself, in much the same way that crusty old judges used to question rape victims who wear short skirts. He is a writer who in the past has chosen to use his column to defend Stalinism. But today, Milne has truly outdone himself: as tens of thousands of Libyans celebrate the tiniest chance of a better future, the old Wykehamist Balliol graduate has decided that today is the day to tell them they'd all be better off if they were still under Gaddafi.

Victory! ^?

Inhofe proclaims victory in global warming debate

In dueling videos with a key Democratic opponent, U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe, who years ago dismissed manmade global warming claims as a hoax, declared victory Wednesday on the issue as a United Nations conference met in Durban, South Africa.

The Oklahoma Republican expressed confidence the collapse of the movement leaves him as the only official in Washington, D.C., still talking about global warming.

"This victory is especially important today,'' Inhofe said. "Tossing out any remote possibility of a UN global warming treaty is one of the most important things we do for the economy.''

He said those attending the Durban conference are being ignored by their biggest allies.

Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., the chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, where Inhofe serves as the top Republican, made her own video offering assurances to those in Durban that, despite reports to the contrary, members of Congress understand the urgent threat facing the globe and remain committed to lessening the impacts of unchecked climate change. [...]

re: #96 lawhawk

So, Mitt's gone and used Kid Rock's Born Free song as for his campaign. Kid Rock has responded as only Kid Rock could. He's okay with it, but note the end:

Bawitdaba would work for me. /

Theme songs I think Candidates should have:
Michele Bachmann - Judas Priest's "Screaming for Vengeance"...
Herman Cain's out, but 2-Live Crew's "Me So Horny" would have been good for his rallies in the general.
Santorum could use a little southern-fried rock, with Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Oo-ooh that Smell"
Rick Perry could use "Tequila" - but only if he had video of Pee-Wee Herman dancing to it every time he played it.
Romney and Gingrich would have to fight over use of Bowie's "Ch-ch-ch-changes"...

re: #88 Simply Sarah

First time for everything. That and I'm pretty seriously opposed to our two party system in general. I know it's not something that can be done overnight, or maybe ever, especially since the two major parties have a lot invested in keeping things the way they currently are. But I'm still young and foolish enough to feel the system can change, damn it!

I'm with you on this. It's not as simple as "less effed up". The two parties and the seemingly (perhaps historically) logical point Obdicut makes can also be described as exactly how we got where we are.

As one of the anti partisans around here I have been dragged kicking and screaming away from Obdicut's logic. Voting your brain instead of your party makes perfect sense to me in an honest electoral sense.

re: #107 freetoken

Over the top?

War on Iran has already begun. Act before it threatens all of us

Sort of but not really. Typical lefty drivel about the US and Israel warmongers starting trouble but I do agree with the general sentiment that conflict with Iran is probably inevitable. It does seem that we're getting close to the point of no return.

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Sort of but not really. Typical lefty drivel about the US and Israel warmongers starting trouble but I do agree with the general sentiment that conflict with Iran is probably inevitable. It does seem that we're getting close to the point of no return.

Seems that way.
Oy.

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Sort of but not really. Typical lefty drivel about the US and Israel warmongers starting trouble but I do agree with the general sentiment that conflict with Iran is probably inevitable. It does seem that we're getting close to the point of no return.

Bullshit. Conflict is only inevitable if we want it to be inevitable. What are we? A bunch of fucking retards who don't know how to talk to other countries anymore? I thought we had enough of that shit with the Bush admin.

re: #109 Obdicut

Okay. It's still true that many, many things will never happen.

Oh. Are you only into voting out of pure self-interest? Like, whoever represents your views the most, you vote for them, not who you think would be better for the country?

To clarify, I mean the one that I think best represents my views of what would be best for the country and the world. While I obviously have my own self-interest in mind to a degree, that isn't my main concern and those generally match with things I'd support regardless.

I"m sorry, but I can't imagine a race where the Democrats would drag things backwards compared to the GOP.

Oh, I don't disagree. I meant in the sense that both would do it.

The reason to do it would be to stop the horrific laws the GOP has been passing that restrict women's access to abortion, for example. The over-the-counter pill is a nifty idea, but it needs to be combined with education and prosletyization. Just allowing it isn't actually going to change abortion access that much, whereas the laws that the GOP are passing really are having a surpressive effect.

For Plan B, I'm honestly more bothered by what I feel is a political decision to block the FDA than I am over the issue itself, since I agree this one issue likely will be relatively minor in impact on actual access.

My concern is where a supposedly women-friendly administration starts doing this, I begin to wonder what else will be given up. And yes, the GOP would be much worse for women. And I don't want any more Republican appointed judges. I just get very discouraged by all this.

I should walk back my earlier statements some as having been said out of anger. Clearly, I want to preserve what we have as best as possible. But I worry about home much will be conceded in a foolish attempt to "move towards the center".

re: #116 darthstar

Bullshit. Conflict is only inevitable if we want it to be inevitable. What are we? A bunch of fucking retards who don't know how to talk to other countries anymore? I thought we had enough of that shit with the Bush admin.

Go ahead an negotiate with the mullahs, I'm sure they're reasonable folks who don't want to destroy Israel. They're probably really nice once we get to know them.

re: #26 Simply Sarah

If my options are Group A, which openly says they hate me and will fuck me over, and Group B, which says they'll support me, but will actually still fuck me over in the end, can I pick none of the above?

And the Democrats haven't slowly increased access to women's health care. They've slowly and cowardly let it be limited by people attacking it in the name of fighting abortion. And even if there's progress, why should I be happy with progress so slow that it still might not fully be there in my lifetime? This is ridiculous.

So you'd rather boycott both major parties, giving the Republicans that much more sway for the RWNJs to enact their dystopia? I may be a registered Republican for the time being, but I'll be damned before I vote for these atavistic, knuckle-dragging, fear-mongering RWNJs; to paraphrase Reagan, I haven't left the GOP, they left me.

That doesn't necessarily mean that I'll switch my registration to Democrat any time soon, but I'm more amenable to what they have to say than I am to the TPGOPers.

I'm a firm believer in the concepts that if you don't vote, you don't earn the right to complain about who gets elected and that people get the government they deserve. If you don't like what's going on, find candidates who share your views and work for them as best you can; otherwise, things will never change to your satisfaction.

re: #118 Killgore Trout

You only want to negotiate with nice people?

That really cuts the options. Including talking to many people here in the US.

re: #113 Rightwingconspirator

I'm with you on this. It's not as simple as "less effed up". The two parties and the seemingly (perhaps historically) logical point Obdicut makes can also be described as exactly how we got where we are.

As one of the anti partisans around here I have been dragged kicking and screaming away from Obdicut's logic. Voting your brain instead of your party makes perfect sense to me in an honest electoral sense.

Well, I'm actually a registered independent (And always have been), so I wouldn't really be voting "my party". I vote for Democrats in general because, well, the other option is generally voting for a Republican. But I have no real attachment to the Democratic Party beyond basically disagreeing with the Republican Party on 98% of things.

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Go ahead an negotiate with the mullahs, I'm sure they're reasonable folks who don't want to destroy Israel. They're probably really nice once we get to know them.

Hey, you think the kids at Davis deserved to be pepper sprayed...you'll forgive me if I don't take your paranoia about all the mullahs wanting to destroy Israel seriously. They've got better things to do with their day than constantly plot the demise of the Jewish state.

re: #120 Obdicut

You only want to negotiate with nice people?

That really cuts the options. Including talking to many people here in the US.

I think BO even flopped on that one...but hell, give them another call

re: #117 Simply Sarah

I don't know what else will be conceded. And I'm not asking you to be happy about the state of affairs.

re: #123 albusteve

Speaking of people you'd never want to negotiate with...Hi Steve! How the hell are ya?

re: #125 darthstar

Speaking of people you'd never want to negotiate with...Hi Steve! How the hell are ya?

pretty busy today

re: #119 talon_262

So you'd rather boycott both major parties, giving the Republicans that much more sway for the RWNJs to enact their dystopia? I may be a registered Republican for the time being, but I'll be damned before I vote for these atavistic, knuckle-dragging, fear-mongering RWNJs; to paraphrase Reagan, I haven't left the GOP, they left me.

That doesn't necessarily mean that I'll switch my registration to Democrat any time soon, but I'm more amenable to what they have to say that I am to the TPGOPers.

I'm a firm believer in the concepts that if you don't vote, you don't earn the right to complain about who gets elected and that people get the government they deserve. If you don't like what's going on, find candidates who share your views and work for them as best you can; otherwise, things will never change to your satisfaction.

Well, I'd likely vote for *someone*. And being in Massachusetts, in most cases I will indeed have a viable Democrat I can at least somewhat get behind. But if my choices were a Republican and a Blue Dog? Ugh. In reality? I'd probably still vote for the Democrat. Doesn't mean I'd like it, though. And it doesn't mean I wouldn't try to replace them next election.

re: #126 albusteve

pretty busy today

That beats the hell out of being bored shitless.

re: #128 darthstar

That beats the hell out of being bored shitless.

Or babysitting a sump pump.

re: #124 Obdicut

I don't know what else will be conceded. And I'm not asking you to be happy about the state of affairs.

Well, that's my concern, really. I worry about where it might end. Throwing PP under the bus?

And good, because all the asking in the world won't change me. :P

re: #128 darthstar

That beats the hell out of being bored shitless.

I get pretty bored too...but I'm getting around better and more active....trying to set a closing on some property up in MI....going up for Xmas

re: #131 albusteve

I get pretty bored too...but I'm getting around better and more active...trying to set a closing on some property up in MI...going up for Xmas

Well, have fun up there...don't forget to put your dope in your checked luggage. Don't want some over-eager TSA agent grabbing your stash.

re: #132 darthstar

Well, have fun up there...don't forget to put your dope in your checked luggage. Don't want some over-eager TSA agent grabbing your stash.

Full cavity search, stat!

re: #133 Varek Raith

Full cavity search, stat!

Stop getting back in line...only one search per passenger.

re: #134 darthstar

Stop getting back in line...only one search per passenger.

Lol.

re: #132 darthstar

Well, have fun up there...don't forget to put your dope in your checked luggage. Don't want some over-eager TSA agent grabbing your stash.

gonna drive...I was up there a few weeks ago and grabbed by cool Impala pimp ride....easy going...my Jetta is just too small at the present for me....flying sucks anymore

re: #120 Obdicut

You only want to negotiate with nice people?

That really cuts the options. Including talking to many people here in the US.

Obama has a far better chance negotiating with Republicans than he does with the Iranian Mullahs. Some people just aren't going to make an agreement.

re: #124 Obdicut

Also, I hope you don't take these, uh, "debates" as being a complete waste of time. I actually do take what was said in them and consider that against my current positions, often resulting in some sort of shift, even if I may come off as a bit impulsive and stuck on things. I've already rethought some of what I said earlier and I'm sure I will do sure further.

It's like with that back and forth over words a month or two back! After that I, uh...well, I actually mostly went the opposite of what you were promoting and actually became more careful about my usage of terms, such as trying to avoid "stupid". Probably not what you intended, but what can do?

re: #98 Obdicut

I'm going to give money to the Democrats at large because the GOP is so fucking terrible

The GOP is a Democratic fundraising operation.

/

re: #122 darthstar

They've got better things to do with their day than constantly plot the demise of the Jewish state.

That's why they spend so much time and money on Hamas and Hezbollah. They've been fighting a proxy war with Iran for decades. It's not paranoia, they're very open about their desire to destroy Israel.

re: #127 Simply Sarah

Well, I'd likely vote for *someone*. And being in Massachusetts, in most cases I will indeed have a viable Democrat I can at least somewhat get behind. But if my choices were a Republican and a Blue Dog? Ugh. In reality? I'd probably still vote for the Democrat. Doesn't mean I'd like it, though. And it doesn't mean I wouldn't try to replace them next election.

If you don't like either of your options for congress, then consider your vote to be a matter of Pelosi v. Boehner, McConnel v. Reid. Who do you want to chair the committees? Who do you want to decide which bills come to the floor?

That's why Linc Chaffee lost his seat; the people of Rhode Island liked him just fine, but they couldn't bear to have an R as Senate Majority Leader.

Terry Jones (yes, that one) has a someone less frantic column about Iran in the same issue of the Guardian.

War Drums Are Beating for Iran. But Who's Playing Them?

Charles Johnson,

I saw this yesterday. It was funny. But it would have been even funnier if they hadn't cut off the first couple of minutes. by the way, John Stewart rocks!