Media Matters’ Eric Boehlert Targeted In Bungled ‘Verizon’ Sting

Wingnut sneaks into private citizen’s home by impersonating a Verizon worker
Wingnuts • Views: 25,103

I’m getting a distinct whiff of James O’Keefe from this story:

It was the middle of the day on Friday, and Eric Boehlert heard a knock on the door. A senior fellow at Media Matters, a nonprofit watchdog that challenges conservative news outlets, Boehlert works from his Montclair, N.J., home.

A short, bearded man stood outside, holding a clipboard and wearing a Verizon uniform. He asked Boehlert if he’d be willing to take a customer survey. Verizon had, perhaps coincidentally, been at the house a week earlier to handle a downed wire. Boehlert quickly agreed and noted that a Verizon worker had actually failed to show up when he said he would.

But as the survey went on, it started getting strange. “The only weird part before he got to his final question was he started telling me, ‘Oh, you know, it’s really tough out there, the economy, and I’m just happy to have a job,’ and stuff like that, which I thought was weird for a customer rep to be telling one of his customers,” Boehlert recalled to HuffPost.

“So he gets to the last questions, and he’s really reading intently off of his clipboard, and he says something about making the kind of salary I do, working from home, something something about the 99 percenters,” Boehlert said. …

“So there was this pause, and I said, ‘You work for Verizon?’ And he just sort of looks back at me and [says], ‘Will you answer the question? Will you answer the question?’ And I said, ‘Can I see your Verizon ID?’ And he wouldn’t produce any Verizon ID, and I think he asked me another time to answer the question. And basically I just said, ‘I’m done so you can leave now.’”

The man started to walk off.

Boehlert decided to follow him to obtain his license plate number. By now he had realized that the man was likely pulling a political stunt, and James O’Keefe’s notorious “To Catch a Journalist” project came to mind as a possibility.

“The only sort of comical part was he forget which way he was supposed to run in case I started following. He ended up sort of in the road, and he sort of turned left and then right,” said Boehlert. “The last I saw him he was in a full sprint down my street running away from my house.”

Boehlert then called the Montclair cops to report the incident. He also rang up Verizon.

Lee Gierczynski, a spokesman for Verizon, told HuffPost that whatever the man was doing, he wasn’t a Verizon customer service representative. “Security determined that Verizon had no door-to-door sales people in that area. There were no Verizon employees in that area,” he said, adding that Verizon “does not send out employees to conduct consumer surveys door to door.”

Gierczynski said the company forwarded the information to local police. The Montclair police department didn’t return calls requesting comment.

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668 comments
1 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:19:23pm

Lame.
Most people understand that a sting operation is supposed to expose someone committing a crime, not just to show up on their porch, ask some random questions and waste a little of their day.

2 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:23:44pm

No way to know for sure, but this smells an awful lot like the brain dead antics of James O'Keefe and his asinine "To Catch a Journalist" project.

3 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:29:07pm

re: #2 Charles

Maybe, inspired by Michelle Malkin, the guy was trying nail Eric Boehlert for having expensive counter tops.

4 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:38:47pm

re: #2 Charles

No way to know for sure, but this smells an awful lot like the brain dead antics of James O'Keefe and his asinine "To Catch a Journalist" project.

Looking to scare Media Matters into firing Boehlert, perhaps? Makes little sense, but then again, nothing O'Keefe's done yet has.

5 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:39:16pm

re: #2 Charles

No way to know for sure, but this smells an awful lot like the brain dead antics of James O'Keefe and his asinine "To Catch a Journalist" project.

There is a twitter path that leads to Breitbart.

6 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:43:41pm

So much effort to catch someone whose only sin is working from home. And I thought it was gay soldiers that were ruining America.

7 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:45:54pm

Absolute perfect illustration of how the right has tried to paint the OWS/99% as hypocritical. We do not begrudge the people who make LEGITIMATE money. It's all about the sanctioned scammers. (so hard to see, ya) We are typing on our iPads happily. But the right wing freaks wish us to be poor rapey stabbey hippies, and this is their meme. Attacking Boehlert for making money? They are so fucking desperate.

8 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:49:24pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

Absolute perfect illustration of how the right has tried to paint the OWS/99% as hypocritical. We do not begrudge the people who make LEGITIMATE money. It's all about the sanctioned scammers. (so hard to see, ya) We are typing on our iPads happily. But the right wing freaks wish us to be poor rapey stabbey hippies, and this is their meme. Attacking Boehlert for making money? They are so fucking desperate.

Yes, because anyone who has the temerity to criticize our economic system is a hypocrite unless they live like a pauper. This is the current state of thinking on the right. Pretty much hopeless.

9 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:49:39pm

Evening lizards!

10 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:52:50pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

Absolute perfect illustration of how the right has tried to paint the OWS/99% as hypocritical. We do not begrudge the people who make LEGITIMATE money. It's all about the sanctioned scammers. (so hard to see, ya) We are typing on our iPads happily. But the right wing freaks wish us to be poor rapey stabbey hippies, and this is their meme. Attacking Boehlert for making money? They are so fucking desperate.

It's the same line of thinking that says if you're wealthy and think people like you should pay more in taxes, but only pay what the law requires come tax time, are a "hypocrite" because you could just send more to the government on your tax forms.

11 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:56:09pm

And these people whine about liberal groups. Nope, no double standards there at all. Lame asses need a life and a real job.

12 Atlas Fails  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:58:17pm

re: #10 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's the same line of thinking that says if you're wealthy and think people like you should pay more in taxes, but only pay what the law requires come tax time, are a "hypocrite" because you could just send more to the government on your tax forms.

But welfare recipients and anyone who doesn't pay federal income taxes shouldn't be allowed to vote, since they don't have "skin in the game."

In other words, rich OWS supporter=hypocrite, poor OWS supporter=selfish moocher.

13 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 6:59:18pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

But the right wing freaks wish us to be poor rapey stabbey hippies, and this is their meme. Attacking Boehlert for making money? They are so fucking desperate.

They're feeling betrayed by their own kind, rich people like Warren Buffet who actually worked to get where they are yet hold views that are inconvenient to selfish, by and large born-wealthy Randroids.

It's the same mentality racist whites display when they toss out the term "*n-word* lover." How dare someone disturb the status quo and upset the rightful class ordering of society.

14 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:00:18pm

I'm amazed the guy really thought it was a Verizon employee in the first place. They just don't do that. No one does that except political people or criminals.

15 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:00:46pm
16 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:02:05pm

re: #12 Atlas Fails

But welfare recipients and anyone who doesn't pay federal income taxes shouldn't be allowed to vote, since they don't have "skin in the game."

In other words, rich OWS supporter=hypocrite, poor OWS supporter=selfish moocher.

This is when it's not really an exaggeration to say that much of the far right wants to return to the 19th century. Since there are more poor Dems (just as there are more highly educated Dems), taking away the vote from non-fed income taxpayers would certainly help the gop. And pretty much destroy democracy as we know it.

17 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:02:26pm

Y'all seen Sinead O'Connor recently? What is the round tattoo with a cross in the middle on her shoulder of?

18 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:03:34pm

re: #15 Petero1818

...uhh, people are paranoid and maybe violence against strange people knocking on their doors is not a good idea.

19 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:04:32pm

re: #14 ggt

I'm amazed the guy really thought it was a Verizon employee in the first place. They just don't do that. No one does that except political people or criminals.

True, I probably would have poked at him with my titanium Apocalyspork and told him to "get of my land!"

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

Y'all seen Sinead O'Connor recently? What is the round tattoo with a cross in the middle on her shoulder of?

Saint Benedict Medal.

20 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:05:04pm

re: #8 palomino

Yes, because anyone who has the temerity to criticize our economic system is a hypocrite unless they live like a pauper. This is the current state of thinking on the right. Pretty much hopeless.

Well this is how it is now. You are either with us or against us in their eyes. The debate over rugged individualism and the common good is one that has been played out over and over again in the for 200 years. But if you listen to these guys, any suggestion that unrestrained capitalism is prone to abuse is an assault on capitalism and enough to get you labelled a member of the Peruvian Shining Path.

21 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:06:54pm

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

Y'all seen Sinead O'Connor recently? What is the round tattoo with a cross in the middle on her shoulder of?

Sinead O'Conner
Jim Norton

22 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:07:25pm

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

Y'all seen Sinead O'Connor recently? What is the round tattoo with a cross in the middle on her shoulder of?

It's the medal of St. Benedict:

[Link: www.sancta.org...]

23 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:08:27pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Sinead O'Conner
Jim Norton

Jim Norton is more attractive.

24 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:10:10pm

re: #12 Atlas Fails

But welfare recipients and anyone who doesn't pay federal income taxes shouldn't be allowed to vote, since they don't have "skin in the game."

I wonder if that includes these people:

Welfare fraud investigators raid $1.2 million Lake Washington home

Federal agents have raided a Seattle couple’s $1.2 million lakefront home looking for evidence that they’ve bilked the government for more than a decade.

Filing a civil lawsuit Friday, federal prosecutors in Seattle claim Lyudmila Shimonova and her partner, chiropractor David Silverstein, sucked money out of state and federal assistance programs while living well in a Lake Washington mansion.

Both have been accused of welfare fraud, allegedly making false claims for government assistance. Neither has been charged criminally.
All told, authorities claim the couple received $135,000 in federal housing assistance benefits, as well as additional support through a federal program for destitute disabled Americans and state programs meant to feed families.

But remember-- it's only the poor who cheat welfare and must be drug tested for it.

25 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:10:21pm

re: #19 goddamnedfrank

Saint Benedict Medal.

re: #22 Lidane

It's the medal of St. Benedict:

[Link: www.sancta.org...]

Thanks. Does she still have a beef with the Pope?

26 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:10:59pm

re: #22 Lidane

Often it is placed in the fields, the foundations of buildings or attached to automobiles to call down God's blessing and the protection of St. Benedict. No particular prayer is prescribed, as the devout wearing itself is a continual silent prayer.

Someone should notify Rick Perry.

27 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:11:08pm

Always thought Sinead had a pretty voice but the short hair just doesn't do it for me.

28 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:11:37pm

re: #24 Lidane

I wonder if that includes these people:

Welfare fraud investigators raid $1.2 million Lake Washington home

But remember-- it's only the poor who cheat welfare and must be drug tested for it.

Yet more proof of flagrant, widespread abuse of the welfare system! It's beyond reform, it must be done away with! We can't afford it, we can't police it, and it's not fixing the real problems! If you're poor and out in this country, go get a job!

29 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:12:24pm

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

I don't know about her shoulder, but her voice was absolutely amazing. She could say more with an "oooh" or "ahhh" than most singers can with a whole sheet of lyrics. She projected rage, sex appeal, righteous anger and intimacy...all with an electric voice and near operatic range.

Watch from about 3:45 to end if you don't wanna watch whole thing.

30 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:12:34pm

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

Thanks. Does she still have a beef with the Pope?

Very much so.

31 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:13:59pm

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

Y'all seen Sinead O'Connor recently? What is the round tattoo with a cross in the middle on her shoulder of?

She's crazy. Literally.

32 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:14:09pm

No pipe did hum, no battle drum did sound its dread tattoo
33 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:14:31pm

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

re: #22 Lidane

Thanks. Does she still have a beef with the Pope?

She's largely been vindicated, seeing as how she tore up JPII's image to bring attention to the Church's coverup of rampant child sexual abuse.

34 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:14:56pm

re: #19 goddamnedfrank

True, I probably would have poked at him with my titanium Apocalyspork and told him to "get of my land!"

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

Saint Benedict Medal.

I don't even open the door. If I'm not expecting someone (a service person or a package) there is no one at my front door I want to see. Everyone else comes to the back door.

35 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:16:14pm

re: #34 ggt

I don't even open the door. If I'm not expecting someone (a service person or a package) there is no one at my front door I want to see. Everyone else comes to the back door.

Smithers, release the Wyrm.

36 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:17:29pm

re: #32 HappyWarrior

[Video]
No pipe did hum, no battle drum did sound its dread tattoo

Her best.

37 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:17:30pm

re: #33 goddamnedfrank

She's largely been vindicated, seeing as how she tore up JPII's image to bring attention to the Church's coverup of rampant child sexual abuse.

I remember the whole incident. Everyone was outraged, NBC had to apologize profusely, etc. At the time, I thought it was all much ado about nothing. One person tearing up a pic in protest, so what?

Turns out I was wrong...she was very much ahead of the curve, and it was much ado about something...something very big.

38 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:17:39pm

The AGU is finally getting their videos online from this week's conference.

Here was a talk on "Effectively Communicating Climate Science (How to Address Related Issues)":

The presenter delves right in to the political problem and the difference between Democrats and Republicans, etc.

39 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:20:39pm

Ordain a female priest --> That's an excommunicatin'

Rape a bunch of kids for decades --> Image: 65.jpg

40 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:20:53pm

re: #33 goddamnedfrank

She's largely been vindicated, seeing as how she tore up JPII's image to bring attention to the Church's coverup of rampant child sexual abuse.

You making this shit up as you go?

On 3 October 1992, the Irish rock singer Sinead O'Connor was the musical guest on Saturday Night Live. For her first song, Sinead performed the title track from her most recent album, Am I Not Your Girl? with a full backing band. For her second, she went with "War," a song by Bob Marley that had once been banned for its apparent advocacy of violence. In a very risky move, musically speaking, Sinead performed the song a capella. Dressed all in white, surrounded by candles and (as usual) shaven-headed, she was a riveting sight. With NBC-TV's cameras focused in-tight on her, Sinead ended her "War" by crying for another one to begin. "Fight the real enemy!" she called, and, out of nowhere, produced a copy of a photograph of Pope John Paul II, which she ripped into pieces. There was stunned silence, and then the station went to a commercial.

The NBC switchboard was immediately inundated by complaints (supposedly 4,484 in all) called in by outraged viewers. Denunciations of Sinead's "blasphemy" poured forth from all kinds of religious figures and celebrities, including Frank Sinatra, who was quoted as saying he wanted to "punch" the singer "right in the mouth." NBC was supposedly fined $2.5 million dollars by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), which had never before fined the network for content aired on Saturday Night Live.

In the meantime, Sinead herself said nothing about what she'd done or why she'd done it. (Simply changing one of Marley's lines so that it referred to "sexual abuse" instead of "racial injustice," as Sinead had done in mid-song, hadn't been sufficient explanation and so the press was filled with lurid denunciations of her.) When she returned to the United States on 16 October 1992 to perform at a birthday concert for Bob Dylan at Madison Square Garden in New York, Sinead was greeted by a weird mixture of cheers and boos. Despite the severely divided response to her presence, she once again sang an a cappella version of "War." Once she was done, she staggered offstage, where she was comforted by Kris Kristofferson. Shortly thereafter, Sinead O'Connor permanently retired from the "pop" entertainment industry.

Eventually, Sinead O'Connor made her peace with the Pope. On 22 September 1997, in an interview with the Italian weekly newspaper Vita, she asked the Holy Father to forgive her. She claimed that her attack on the photo had been "a ridiculous act, the gesture of a girl rebel," which she did "because I was in rebellion against the faith, but I was still within the faith." Quoting St. Augustine, she went on to add, "Anger is the first step towards courage." Another courageous step Sinead took in the late 1990s was to join the congregation of the controversial Irish Bishop Michael Cox, who eventually ordained Sinead as a priest. Lacking a sense of humor, the Vatican has refused to recognize Sinead's membership in the priesthood, which the Pope considers "bizarre." This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, but the Pope is right: Sinead's story is a bizarre one.

41 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:20:57pm

re: #36 Decatur Deb

Her best.

Yeah, she really has a lot of passion in that song. re: #36 Decatur Deb

Her best.

Probably my favorite version of it.

42 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:20:59pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

...uhh, people are paranoid and maybe violence against strange people knocking on their doors is not a good idea.

Violence against strange people knocking on your door is not advisable. I had thought he entered his home. As I read it again that is not clear, and that he may have only stood at the door. Nonetheless I would not have cried for him.

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:22:00pm

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

Y'all seen Sinead O'Connor recently? What is the round tattoo with a cross in the middle on her shoulder of?

I think it's representation of a St. Benedict medal.

44 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:22:11pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Always thought Sinead had a pretty voice but the short hair just doesn't do it for me.

She looked about as hot as a bald woman can back in the late 80's. Great voice and pop sensibility too.

45 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:22:20pm

Blagojevich sentenced today 14 years. No word on sentencing for the hair.

Correspondents say it is likely that Blagojevich will serve his sentence in a prison outside Illinois. He will be required to undertake eight hours a day of menial labour for 12 cents an hour and share a cell with other inmates. Family visits will be limited.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:23:13pm

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

re: #22 Lidane

Thanks. Does she still have a beef with the Pope?

Probably. She was ordained a priest in some offshoot rogue Catholic group.

47 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:23:41pm

re: #44 palomino

She looked about as hot as a bald woman can back in the late 80's. Great voice and pop sensibility too.

[Video]

More cute than hot for me. I do love her voice though. I like the chick from Cranberries too.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:23:48pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Always thought Sinead had a pretty voice but the short hair just doesn't do it for me.

She has a gorgeous voice, and as a young girl, she was so lovely she could even, sorta, pull off the skinhead look. Not my favorite style, though.

49 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:24:22pm

re: #45 ggt

Blagojevich sentenced today 14 years. No word on sentencing for the hair.

Summary execution.

/

50 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:24:33pm

re: #47 HappyWarrior

More cute than hot for me. I do love her voice though. I like the chick from Cranberries too.

Yeah, I still get their voices mixed up sometimes at the beginning of songs. Both fantastic.

51 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:25:02pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

She might have made peace with JPII, but read the editorial I linked above. It's from July. She rips into the Vatican hard.

52 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:25:28pm

re: #45 ggt

Blagojevich sentenced today 14 years. No word on sentencing for the hair.

I am quite certain it will make a nice grab handle for his cell mate.

53 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:25:34pm

re: #50 palomino

Yeah, I still get their voices mixed up sometimes at the beginning of songs. Both fantastic.

Yeah they're similiar. Difference is Dolores is from Limerick and Sinead's from Dublin. I love the name Sinead too. If I ever have a daughter, I'm heavily considering going that route. Though the future boss has to consent :).

54 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:26:14pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, she is a truly a crazy person.

She is unstable truly. I don't envy her.

55 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:26:26pm

re: #37 palomino

I remember the whole incident. Everyone was outraged, NBC had to apologize profusely, etc. At the time, I thought it was all much ado about nothing. One person tearing up a pic in protest, so what?

Turns out I was wrong...she was very much ahead of the curve, and it was much ado about something...something very big.

She was way ahead of the curve for sure.

re: #31 ggt

She's crazy. Literally.

That's a weird assertion to just throw out there.

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

You making this shit up as you go?

LOL, your unattributed opinion laden source is the one making shit up.

Contrary to rumour, NBC was not fined by the Federal Communications Commission for O'Connor's act; the FCC has no regulatory power over blasphemy.

56 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:26:33pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Yeah they're similiar. Difference is Dolores is from Limerick and Sinead's from Dublin. I love the name Sinead too. If I ever have a daughter, I'm heavily considering going that route. Though the future boss has to consent :).

Very pretty name. Like Sean, but WAY cooler.

57 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:26:49pm

If I recall, she was also furious about the cover up of non sexual abuse of children in Ireland as well by clergy members. There's a lot I respect about JPII but the Vatican I think earned the criticism it gets.

58 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:27:05pm

re: #51 Lidane

She might have made peace with JPII, but read the editorial I linked above. It's from July. She rips into the Vatican hard.

Facts are hard for some people.

59 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:27:08pm

re: #56 palomino

Very pretty name. Like Sean, but WAY cooler.

I like the name Siobhan.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:27:40pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Yeah they're similiar. Difference is Dolores is from Limerick and Sinead's from Dublin. I love the name Sinead too. If I ever have a daughter, I'm heavily considering going that route. Though the future boss has to consent :).

The one thing I regret about the baby names we've selected for future offspring is that no traditional Irish names made it through. But family names are more important.

61 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:28:47pm

re: #56 palomino

Very pretty name. Like Sean, but WAY cooler.

Well I have ea good reason to be biased to Sean just like I got a reason to be biased to Ivan. But yeah it's a pretty name. A lot of the early Irish revolutionary leaders Gaelicized their names. Hence why Patrick Pearse is Padraig Pearse in history.

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:28:59pm

re: #59 Alouette

I like the name Siobhan.

Aoife would have been a top choice for me, had we gone with Irish names.

63 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:29:25pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Facts are hard for some people.

Maybe I should repost it with the headline:

We must destroy nest of devils in the Vatican, for Christ's sake

That doesn't sound like someone who's made peace with the Catholic Church. She might have worked things out with JPII over the whole picture ripping thing, but she's definitely not mellow about the Catholic Church at all.

64 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:29:50pm

If I survive the apocalypse, my nic is my new name.
:P

65 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:30:29pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

The one thing I regret about the baby names we've selected for future offspring is that no traditional Irish names made it through. But family names are more important.

Yeah family names are important. I'm named after both grandfathers and my youngest brother after two of my Dad's brothers. My middle brother has the most Irish sounding name of all four of us and he's the least Celtophile of the three of us.

66 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:31:12pm

re: #59 Alouette

I like the name Siobhan.

Another one I've always liked. I like Erin too. Bridget etc.

67 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:31:35pm

re: #60 SanFranciscoZionist

The one thing I regret about the baby names we've selected for future offspring is that no traditional Irish names made it through. But family names are more important.

Well somehow for a Canadian Jew of Austro Hungarian ancestry my son ended up with the traditional Irish name Ronan. The nice thing about names you have selected for future offspring is that you have time to change them.

68 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:33:14pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Yeah family names are important. I'm named after both grandfathers and my youngest brother after two of my Dad's brothers. My middle brother has the most Irish sounding name of all four of us and he's the least Celtophile of the three of us.

A son ordered a CD from a small Irish label in the Bronx. When he hung up he looked puzzled and said "They didn't ask how to spell either of my names".

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:33:36pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Well I have ea good reason to be biased to Sean just like I got a reason to be biased to Ivan. But yeah it's a pretty name. A lot of the early Irish revolutionary leaders Gaelicized their names. Hence why Patrick Pearse is Padraig Pearse in history.

God rest the poor man. A poet, a closet case, and a most determined martyr.

Naked I saw thee,
O beauty of beauty,
And I blinded my eyes
For fear I should fail.
I heard thy music,
O melody of melody,
And I closed my ears
For fear I should falter.
I tasted thy mouth,
O sweetness of sweetness,
And I hardened my heart
For fear of my slaying.
I blinded my eyes,
And I closed my ears,
I hardened my heart
And I smothered my desire.
I turned my back
On the vision I had shaped,
And to this road before me
I turned my face.
I have turned my face
To this road before me,
To the deed that I see
And the death I shall die.

70 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:33:39pm

re: #64 Varek Raith

If I survive the apocalypse, my nic is my new name.
:P

I was considering "Dovahkiin".

/

71 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:34:23pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

You making this shit up as you go?

Wrong again. She was protesting child sex abuse. And with a little hair she didn't look so bad at all. Kinda cute, like a pixie.

72 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:34:29pm

re: #24 Lidane

I wonder if that includes these people:

Welfare fraud investigators raid $1.2 million Lake Washington home

But remember-- it's only the poor who cheat welfare and must be drug tested for it.

Related:

$2M Michigan lottery winner defends use of food stamps

A Michigan man who won $2 million in a state lottery game continues to collect food stamps 11 months after striking it rich.

And there's nothing the state can do about it, at least for now.

Leroy Fick, 59, of Auburn won $2 million in the state lottery TV show "Make Me Rich!" last June. But the state's Department of Human Services determined he was still eligible for food stamps, Fick's attorney, John Wilson of Midland, said Tuesday.

Eligibility for food stamps is based on gross income and follows federal guidelines; lottery winnings are considered liquid assets and don't count as income. As long as Fick's gross income stays below the eligibility requirement for food stamps, he can receive them, even if he has a million dollars in the bank.

Food stamps are paid for through tax dollars and are meant to help support low-income families.

"If you're going to try to make me feel bad, you're not going to do it," Fick told WNEM-TV in Saginaw on Monday.

Wilson said Fick told the DHS officials he'd won $2 million but was told he could keep using the Bridge Card issued to him to buy groceries.

Fick could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

73 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:34:29pm

re: #64 Varek Raith

If I survive the apocalypse, my nic is my new name.
:P

I'm going with "Toecutter". Can never go wrong with "Toecutter".

74 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:34:31pm

When my mom was pregnant with my kid brother, Dad wanted to name him Cosmo in jest. Ended up going with Thomas instead who is my Dad's brother and my Godfather but my Dad's mom who was losing her memory would still call him Cosmo whenever she saw him. Miss her. Sweetest old Irish American Catholic lady you'd ever meet and has had three of my cousins named for her.

75 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:34:48pm

Sinead is bipolar (according to her wiki). I don't think she had a stable childhood and was put in a Catholic institution as a teenager--which was probably horrible for an undiagnosed bi-polar teenager.

IMHO, she is probably brilliant in other ways than musically. She is extremely talented.

for a women to be ordained a priest and believing the one is actually a priest is delusional.

I don't begrudge her her political or religious beliefs. She is not healthy and I am very glad I am not in her shoes.

76 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:35:40pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

God rest the poor man. A poet, a closet case, and a most determined martyr.

Naked I saw thee,
O beauty of beauty,
And I blinded my eyes
For fear I should fail.
I heard thy music,
O melody of melody,
And I closed my ears
For fear I should falter.
I tasted thy mouth,
O sweetness of sweetness,
And I hardened my heart
For fear of my slaying.
I blinded my eyes,
And I closed my ears,
I hardened my heart
And I smothered my desire.
I turned my back
On the vision I had shaped,
And to this road before me
I turned my face.
I have turned my face
To this road before me,
To the deed that I see
And the death I shall die.

This man had kept a school
And rode our winged horse;
Great poem.

77 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:36:30pm

re: #72 NJDhockeyfan

Er, no. Not related at all. Read the article you posted:

Eligibility for food stamps is based on gross income and follows federal guidelines; lottery winnings are considered liquid assets and don't count as income. As long as Fick's gross income stays below the eligibility requirement for food stamps, he can receive them, even if he has a million dollars in the bank.

That sounds like a regulatory problem.

In Seattle, you had a chiropractor and his wife actively cheating the system for over a decade. It wasn't some guy who hit the lottery and keeps getting welfare because of a loophole in the law that doesn't count his lottery winnings as income.

78 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:37:58pm

re: #75 ggt

for a women to be ordained a priest and believing the one is actually a priest is delusional.

Wait, what? Is this view of yours unique to factional denominations of Catholicism or does it extend to other faiths like female rabbis in Reform Judaism?

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:37:59pm

re: #77 Lidane

Er, no. Not related at all. Read the article you posted:

That sounds like a regulatory problem.

In Seattle, you had a chiropractor and his wife actively cheating the system for over a decade. It wasn't some guy who hit the lottery and keeps getting welfare because of a loophole in the law that doesn't count his lottery winnings as income.

Pretty shitty for someone who knows what it is like to need food stamps to cheat the system taking money that could go to many who truly need the help.

80 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:38:17pm

re: #72 NJDhockeyfan

So what? Is there some epidemic of lottery winners getting food stamps and thus destroying the American economy?

You're certainly not trying to trot out the old welfare queen trope from the 80s, are you?

81 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:38:59pm

re: #78 goddamnedfrank

Wait, what? Is this view of yours unique to factional denominations of Catholicism or does it extend to other faiths like female rabbis in Reform Judaism?

Roman Catholic church does not ordain females.

There are a group of people who think because they are ordained by a Bishop, then they are, in fact, RC priests.

82 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:39:12pm

re: #75 ggt

for a women to be ordained a priest and believing the one is actually a priest is delusional.

Wow. Have to disagree with this statement. I will not opine on her mental health, but I think the claim made above that it is delusional for a woman to be ordained a priest and believe that she is actually a priest is indefensible. I believe that she is a Catholic that challenges the authority of the Papacy on the right for women to be priests. Is that delusional? No more delusional in my mind than the Pope that believes he has the right to deny her that same post.

83 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:39:56pm

WTF, Religion?
:P

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:40:17pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

This man had kept a school
And rode our winged horse;
Great poem.

Yeats, of course, had the great gift, and also enough common sense to not get killed for Ireland. But I love Pearse. All intensity and faith.

(I'm always reminded of what the boy says in "Angela's Ashes", about how at school they tell them to be ready to die for the Faith, and their father wants them to die for Ireland, and he wonders if there is anyone in the world who would like to see them live to grow up.)

85 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:40:25pm

re: #82 Petero1818

Wow. Have to disagree with this statement. I will not opine on her mental health, but I think the claim made above that it is delusional for a woman to be ordained a priest and believe that she is actually a priest is indefensible. I believe that she is a Catholic that challenges the authority of the Papacy on the right for women to be priests. Is that delusional? No more delusional in my mind than the Pope that believes he has the right to deny her that same post.

Like it or not, the RC Church does not ordain women. She may be an ordained priest in some religion, but not the RC Church.

86 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:40:29pm

re: #79 ggt

Pretty shitty for someone who knows what it is like to need food stamps to cheat the system taking money that could go to many who truly need the help.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying the guy is right for taking the money.

However, he was told outright that he could keep taking the money if he wanted because his lottery winnings don't count as income. It's a regulatory problem and it's a loophole that clearly needs to close. He's not breaking the law by taking the cash, but it's lousy of him to do so.

The Seattle case was outright welfare fraud. They live in a million dollar house and were bilking the system for over a decade, flying around the world and everything.

87 jvic  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:41:01pm

re: #52 Petero1818

re: #45 ggt

Blagojevich sentenced today 14 years. No word on sentencing for the hair.

I am quite certain it will make a nice grab handle for his cell mate.

The US incarceration system is a national disgrace. I try not to make jokes or quips about it, even though, obviously, there are people who deserve to be there.

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:41:35pm

re: #81 ggt

Roman Catholic church does not ordain females.

There are a group of people who think because they are ordained by a Bishop, then they are, in fact, RC priests.

It's direct line of ordination from Peter, something that's been acknowledged in other cases, such as those having to do with Episcopal priests.

The Catholic Church has certainly had groups spin off from her before, and do their own thing.

89 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:42:17pm

re: #85 ggt

Like it or not, the RC Church does not ordain women. She may be an ordained priest in some religion, but not the RC Church.

Again, I don't think it is a case of being delusional. I suspect it is a difference of opinion on who defines what it means to be a Roman Catholic.

90 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:42:21pm

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeats, of course, had the great gift, and also enough common sense to not get killed for Ireland. But I love Pearse. All intensity and faith.

(I'm always reminded of what the boy says in "Angela's Ashes", about how at school they tell them to be ready to die for the Faith, and their father wants them to die for Ireland, and he wonders if there is anyone in the world who would like to see them live to grow up.)

Yep had the kid brother read that and September 1913 when I was home for Thanksgiving. Regarding Angela's Ashes so many great lines Frank McCourt has in there about what it means to be Irish and Catholic. I read all three books. He's the Irish grandfather I never had.

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:42:25pm

re: #86 Lidane

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying the guy is right for taking the money.

However, he was told outright that he could keep taking the money if he wanted because his lottery winnings don't count as income. It's a regulatory problem and it's a loophole that clearly needs to close. He's not breaking the law by taking the cash, but it's lousy of him to do so.

The Seattle case was outright welfare fraud. They live in a million dollar house and were bilking the system for over a decade, flying around the world and everything.

I guess I just have to wonder about the individual's responsibility in instances like this. He can't be prosecuted, I understand that.

92 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:43:40pm

re: #80 palomino

So what? Is there some epidemic of lottery winners getting food stamps and thus destroying the American economy?

You're certainly not trying to trot out the old welfare queen trope from the 80s, are you?

Is there some epidemic of people living in million dollar houses getting welfare and thus destroying the American economy?

93 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:44:30pm

re: #85 ggt

Like it or not, the RC Church does not ordain women. She may be an ordained priest in some religion, but not the RC Church.

I get it, this is all about brand dilution.

94 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:44:43pm

re: #89 Petero1818

Again, I don't think it is a case of being delusional. I suspect it is a difference of opinion on who defines what it means to be a Roman Catholic.

The RC Church has some pretty specific guidelines. You are either with them or against them.

I don't necessarily agree, but that is the way it is.

95 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:45:12pm

re: #75 ggt

Sinead is bipolar (according to her wiki). I don't think she had a stable childhood and was put in a Catholic institution as a teenager--which was probably horrible for an undiagnosed bi-polar teenager.

IMHO, she is probably brilliant in other ways than musically. She is extremely talented.

for a women to be ordained a priest and believing the one is actually a priest is delusional.

I don't begrudge her her political or religious beliefs. She is not healthy and I am very glad I am not in her shoes.

Dunno about the delusional. The Vatican absolutely does not allow the ordination, but that does not mean that the bishops actually lack the power to violate that rule. We'll know in a couple hundred years, if they come around. (Obeying a voice that tells you to lead an army Rheims and crown the Dauphin is delusional, unless the Dauphin gets crowned.)

96 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:45:14pm

re: #68 Decatur Deb

A son ordered a CD from a small Irish label in the Bronx. When he hung up he looked puzzled and said "They didn't ask how to spell either of my names".

That only happens to us when we visit in Hawaii.

97 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:45:16pm

re: #91 ggt

I guess I just have to wonder about the individual's responsibility in instances like this. He can't be prosecuted, I understand that.

Newt was right. He has a habit of getting food stamps and he can't stop it...///

98 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:45:52pm

re: #93 goddamnedfrank

I get it, this is all about brand dilution.

Listen, she cannot perform sacraments in the RC Church. She cannot marry people or perform mass.

She may be able to do so in some other church.

99 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:46:29pm

re: #80 palomino

So what? Is there some epidemic of lottery winners getting food stamps and thus destroying the American economy?

You're certainly not trying to trot out the old welfare queen trope from the 80s, are you?

If we can misidentify the one, clear outlier as the norm then the entire system is obviously broken and should be scrapped.

100 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:47:15pm

re: #98 ggt

Listen, she cannot perform sacraments in the RC Church. She cannot marry people or perform mass.

She may be able to do so in some other church.

Yes, but it doesn't make her delusional.

101 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:47:24pm

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

Is there some epidemic of people living in million dollar houses getting welfare and thus destroying the American economy?

Not that I know of. Have you got any special unreleased data?

102 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:48:03pm

re: #100 Varek Raith

Yes, but it doesn't make her delusional.

Makes her in rebellion with Rome just like the anti Vatican II people but for different reasons.

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:48:20pm

re: #97 Petero1818

Newt was right. He has a habit of getting food stamps and he can't stop it...///

I think it's a misunderstanding of the system. The guy probably felt he was taking advantage of the system, when in fact he was taking advantage of fellow citizens.

That's the thing with our government. Money doesn't come from a King, it comes from the people.

104 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:48:20pm

re: #100 Varek Raith

Yes, but it doesn't make her delusional.

Which was my point. Particularly in the course of a discussion regarding her mental health and bipolar disorder, I thought it was worth making.

105 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:48:20pm

I'm being a bit of a one-note instrument today...

Revkin has a new piece up where he discusses (and communicates with) Naomi Klein over her recent climate change piece:

Naomi Klein’s Inconvenient Climate Conclusions

Revkin does a decent enough job in engaging Klein, and he reminds people of Tony Blair's famous conclusion ("The blunt truth about the politics of climate change is that no country will want to sacrifice its economy in order to meet this challenge"), but like so much written on this topic I get the feeling that it is more of a place holder to avoid coming to, or admitting, the darker conclusion that inevitable if one frees oneself of the inhibition of having to always have a happy ending.

As the video I embedded upstream illustrates, once climate change moves from a science discussion to a policy discussion the nature of what exactly is "climate change" also changes: from science about the Earth to a battle of politics (that is, how people group themselves for the purpose of group decision making.)

Sadly the powers that be at the UNFCCC have not helped in this regard, as they have given way too much space to politically hyper-charged NGOs to use the UNFCCC platform, and this is on top of the already mostly-unworkable UN system of having all parties being equal (and thus any single party can derail the process.)

So my conclusion is this: the UNFCCC was set up from the beginning to fail, if we measure success by the accomplishment of avoiding or minimizing (mitigating) climate change.

106 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:48:48pm

re: #101 palomino

Not that I know of. Have you got any special unreleased data?

Nope, and neither do you.

107 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:49:27pm

I'm biased against religion, so I don't really care who calls who delusional or who thinks their particular Sky Dude is better.
:P

108 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:50:44pm

re: #107 Varek Raith

I'm biased against religion, so I don't really care who calls who delusional or who thinks their particular Sky Dude is better.
:P

I still think the late Carlin had it best about Joe Pesci. In the name of Joey Lamotta, Tommy DeVito, and Harry Lime amen.

109 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:50:48pm

re: #99 goddamnedfrank

If we can misidentify the one, clear outlier as the norm then the entire system is obviously broken and should be scrapped.

Sounds like the overall anti-OWS strategy.

I still remember hearing the urban legend many times as a kid about the welfare queen who bought sirloin steak to feed her dog. You see, food stamps can't be used for pet food, only human food. So the myth grew and was accepted by millions of resentful middle class people, even though there was barely a shred of truth to the idea that food stamps could support the expenditure for sirloin steak as dog food.

111 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:50:51pm

As President, I’ll end Varek Raith’s war on religion.

112 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:51:02pm

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

Is there some epidemic of people living in million dollar houses getting welfare and thus destroying the American economy?

I don't know about an epidemic, but a simple Google search turns up this story:

Millionaire Brooklyn couple accused of being welfare cheats

The Brooklyn District Attorney’s office announced yesterday indictments against 32 people accused of fraudulently claiming nearly $1 million in welfare benefits from the city of New York.

The nearly three dozen defendants, which include business owners, landlords, and real estate developers, were charged in separate cases with stealing about $933,500, the D.A.’s office revealed on Tuesday, April 27, 2010.

The biggest shocker involves one Brooklyn couple who had an excess of $2 million in one of their seven bank accounts while they allegedly pocketed $59,000 in Medicaid benefits over a five-year period.

But hey, as Newt and the rest of the GOP are so fond of telling us, it's only the poor and/or liberals who cheat the system and must be drug tested.

113 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:51:21pm

re: #103 ggt

I think it's a misunderstanding of the system. The guy probably felt he was taking advantage of the system, when in fact he was taking advantage of fellow citizens.

That's the thing with our government. Money doesn't come from a King, it comes from the people.

Well that is true, and I suspect that it is something the GOP would be happy to latch onto. They would argue that people who don't pay a lot of taxes or any taxes, feel that government money is government money. People who do pay a lot of taxes feel that government money is their money. I am not saying it is my opinion. I am simply saying it may be in certain circumstances an honest issue of perception.

114 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:51:55pm

re: #106 NJDhockeyfan

Nope, and neither do you.

Never claimed I did. Also never claimed that food stamp abuse was some rampant problem. If you do think so, the burden of proof is in your court.

115 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:52:05pm

re: #112 Lidane

I don't know about an epidemic, but a simple Google search turns up this story:

Millionaire Brooklyn couple accused of being welfare cheats

But hey, as Newt and the rest of the GOP are so fond of telling us, it's only the poor and/or liberals who cheat the system and must be drug tested.

That's only one couple.

116 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:52:27pm

re: #107 Varek Raith

I'm biased against religion, so I don't really care who calls who delusional or who thinks their particular Sky Dude is better.
:P

Sky Dude? SKY DUDE???!!! I am calling the LGF switchboard now to lodge my complaint. ////

117 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:52:37pm

re: #111 jaunte

As President, I’ll end Varek Raith’s war on religion.

Bring it on!!!
*OW, stubbed my toe*

118 alpuz  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:52:51pm

Well shit. I guess the introduction of Sinéad O'Connor has completely eclipsed the whole guy from Media Matters may have been set up in a James O' Keefe style ambush topic. Be reading ya in the mornin'.

119 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:53:18pm

re: #116 Petero1818

Sky Dude? SKY DUDE???!!! I am calling the LGF switchboard now to lodge my complaint. ///

Yeah, had to appease the militant inside my head.
He's a real jerk.
;)

120 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:53:48pm

re: #119 Varek Raith

Yeah, had to appease the militant inside my head.
He's a real jerk.
;)

Is he dead or un-dead?

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:54:11pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

Makes her in rebellion with Rome just like the anti Vatican II people but for different reasons.

Of course, I consider the sede vacante people to be out of their goddamn minds,

122 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:54:14pm

re: #114 palomino

Never claimed I did. Also never claimed that food stamp abuse was some rampant problem. If you do think so, the burden of proof is in your court.

I think food stamp abuse by lottery winners is just as rampant as welfare abuse by millionaires. That would be neither is true.

123 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:54:42pm

re: #118 alpuz

Well shit. I guess the introduction of Sinéad O'Connor has completely eclipsed the whole guy from Media Matters may have been set up in a James O' Keefe style ambush topic. Be reading ya in the mornin'.

Yeah, that tends to happen.

Though, back on topic, this whole thing is scary. I have a bad feeling crap like this is going to escalate badly.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:54:42pm

re: #103 ggt

I think it's a misunderstanding of the system. The guy probably felt he was taking advantage of the system, when in fact he was taking advantage of fellow citizens.

That's the thing with our government. Money doesn't come from a King, it comes from the people.

Or, this guy may not have minded ripping off fellow citizens. A remarkable number of people don't.

:(

125 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:54:55pm

re: #110 NJDhockeyfan

Gene Simmons says 'karaoke singer' Madonna inappropriate for Super Bowl

Neither of those clowns has been artistically relevant for over 20 years.

Clearly I think they both suck, but which one would draw in more viewers? Answer: not even close, a lot of people still like Madonna for something other than Dr Pepper commercials.

126 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:55:01pm

re: #120 ggt

Is he dead or un-dead?

Undead.

127 Mocking Jay  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:55:25pm

I swear, that last dungeon makes me think the Greybeards are trying to get me killed.

Also, my new theory is that this is a Bethesda plot to get guys playing a game where you catch butterflies.

128 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:55:47pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course, I consider the sede vacante people to be out of their goddamn minds,

Typical. IIRC you didn't much like the Avignon popes either.

129 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:56:11pm

re: #127 JasonA

I swear, that last dungeon makes me think the Greybeards are trying to get me killed.

Also, my new theory is that this is a Bethesda plot to get guys playing a game where you catch butterflies.

I tried to fry them with fire.
BETHESDA,
WHY U NO LET ME FRY BUTTERFLIES?!?!

130 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:57:20pm

re: #122 NJDhockeyfan

I think food stamp abuse by lottery winners is just as rampant as welfare abuse by millionaires. That would be neither is true.

I think you're right.

A total non-issue, except that welfare recipients in general are still used by some polticians as a wedge to create fear among the working and middle class.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:57:25pm

A Facebook friend posts:

Some Republican said that Barack Obama is staging a war on religion. I didn't think that made any sense until I realized how many religious leaders he has killed:

Osama bin Laden
Atiyah Abd al-Rahman
Anwar al-Awlaki

132 Mocking Jay  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:57:50pm

re: #129 Varek Raith

I tried to fry them with fire.
BETHESDA,
WHY U NO LET ME FRY BUTTERFLIES?!?!

I also thought I was slick trying to grab them with telekinesis. Based on our experiences I'm going to say that they have 100% resistance to magic.

133 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:57:50pm

re: #110 NJDhockeyfan

Gene Simmons says 'karaoke singer' Madonna inappropriate for Super Bowl

Meh I am no fan of Madonna and think it's a weird choice but it's not like re: #125 palomino

Neither of those clowns has been artistically relevant for over 20 years.

Clearly I think they both suck, but which one would draw in more viewers? Answer: not even close, a lot of people still like Madonna for something other than Dr Pepper commercials.

I have to confess. I have never liked Simmons or Kiss and do not understand why they're seen as cool. So many better bands out there.

134 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:58:07pm

re: #107 Varek Raith

I'm biased against religion, so I don't really care who calls who delusional or who thinks their particular Sky Dude is better.

Everybody knows it's the Sea Dude who kicks ass anyway.

135 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:58:11pm

re: #123 Varek Raith

Yeah, that tends to happen.

Though, back on topic, this whole thing is scary. I have a bad feeling crap like this is going to escalate badly.

And we can thank the right wing media for falling all over themselves to praise O'Keefe's totally ridiculous take down of ACORN.

136 Petero1818  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:58:39pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

A Facebook friend posts:

Some Republican said that Barack Obama is staging a war on religion. I didn't think that made any sense until I realized how many religious leaders he has killed:

Osama bin Laden
Atiyah Abd al-Rahman
Anwar al-Awlaki

That was just Barack Hussein Obama's version of a primary///

137 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:59:28pm

re: #115 NJDhockeyfan

That's only one couple.

And Reagan's mythical "welfare queen" was one person. What's your point?

138 Mocking Jay  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:59:42pm

re: #134 freetoken

Everybody knows it's the Sea Dude who kicks ass anyway.

Thought you were going to go with this guy.

139 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 7:59:59pm

re: #132 JasonA

I also thought I was slick trying to grab them with telekinesis. Based on our experiences I'm going to say that have 100% resistance to magic.

Not even Storm Shout works.
*Oh how fun that one is*

140 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:00:58pm

re: #127 JasonA

I swear, that last dungeon makes me think the Greybeards are trying to get me killed.

Also, my new theory is that this is a Bethesda plot to get guys playing a game where you catch butterflies.

That or to make me a thieving assassin werewolf who kills dragons when he's not being used as a pawn by major governments and/or daedric lords.

//

141 Mocking Jay  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:01:17pm

re: #139 Varek Raith

Not even Storm Shout works.
*Oh how fun that one is*

Storm Shout makes men feel like gods.

That said, I haven't actually used it productively...

142 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:01:18pm

re: #125 palomino

Neither of those clowns has been artistically relevant for over 20 years.

Exactly, although I'd say the last Madonna album worth a damn was Ray of Light, which came out in 1998.

Personally, I'd rather see a rock band during the Super Bowl. Or hell, have Brad Paisley play. He's pretty good.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:01:47pm

re: #118 alpuz

Well shit. I guess the introduction of Sinéad O'Connor has completely eclipsed the whole guy from Media Matters may have been set up in a James O' Keefe style ambush topic. Be reading ya in the mornin'.

Well, it's an interesting tidbit, but there's not much to discuss. It's weird, it might have been some random nut, it might have been another O'Keefe routine. Who knows?

If you got something to add, throw it out there.

144 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:02:11pm

The Holy Land Foundation is in the news again...

Muslim charity leaders lose appeal in Hamas case

Dec 7 - A US federal appeals court on Wednesday upheld the convictions of five leaders of an Islamic charity on charges of funneling money and supplies to Hamas, which the United States designates as a terrorist group.

The organizers of the Texas-based Holy Land Foundation argued they were denied a fair trial in 2008 when the government used secret Israeli witnesses to testify against them. The organizers also raised a host of constitutional challenges to the evidence presented against them at trial.

The 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals rejected those challenges, concluding that "while no trial is perfect," Holy Land and its leaders were fairly convicted. The court pointed to "voluminous evidence" that the foundation, which was started in the late 1980s, had long-running financial ties to Hamas.

Once the largest Muslim charity in the United States, Holy Land was closed by the administration of former President George W. Bush soon after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

145 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:02:23pm

re: #138 JasonA

Don't judge me. I was young, and needed the money.

Besides, you can't deny that's a "tasteful nude".

146 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:02:43pm

re: #141 JasonA

Storm Shout makes men feel like gods.

That said, I haven't actually used it productively...

Windhelm no longer welcomes me...
:evilgrin:

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:05:22pm

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

re: #22 Lidane

Thanks. Does she still have a beef with the Pope?

you know that was because of the catholic child abuse scandal


that's the beef she had, because it hit Ireland first

148 Mocking Jay  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:05:41pm

Jon Stewart on the indefinite detention bill: "You can take our lives, but only we can take our freedom!"

149 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:06:54pm

re: #142 Lidane

Exactly, although I'd say the last Madonna album worth a damn was Ray of Light, which came out in 1998.

Personally, I'd rather see a rock band during the Super Bowl. Or hell, have Brad Paisley play. He's pretty good.

New rock bands too though I enjoyed the Stones in XL. I was disappointed with the Who's performance though a few years ago and even more that a party guest asked while they were playing Baba O'Reilly was the same as Smells Like Teen Spirit. Kids these days.*
* Okay, she was like 2-3 years younger than me tops but still getting Nirvana and the Who mixed up.

150 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:07:17pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

you're an uninformed fool, as usual

151 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:07:54pm

re: #138 JasonA

Thought you were going to go with this guy.

Nah, all geeks know of the one true religion.

152 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:09:35pm

re: #112 Lidane

How sick were these people?

The largest theft is charged to Liz Sobeida, 37, who collected $460,000 in Medicaid benefits for herself and her two children, between 2004 and 2009. Sobeida is charged with claiming to be a single mother on assistance applications, when in fact, her husband, with whom she lived, was employed as a technician at a Cadillac dealership – earning $70,000 in 2009 – and she worked at Brooks Brothers.

Did they all have organ transplants or something?

153 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:10:01pm

re: #151 freetoken

Nah, all geeks know of the one true religion.

His Divine Pansiness.

154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:11:38pm
155 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:11:44pm

Back on topic, "to catch a journalist" doing what? Being home?

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:12:12pm

Remember the stories about the LDS church in Texas. They polygamous wives didn't work and claimed welfare money--which they handed over to their "husband".

Anyone know if it's true?

157 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:13:00pm

re: #155 funky chicken

"He sits around all day at the keyboard, just TAPPING, TAPPING, TAPPING..."

158 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:13:31pm

And now for your moment of Zen...it's the Union vs Hippies...

Union clashes with hippies at Occupy DC

At a rainy Occupy DC march in downtown Washington, D.C. on Wednesday, tempers flared between dreadlocked, leather jacket-wearing Occupiers and their older, more clean-cut union allies.

An altercation began when members of the younger, dirtier crowd pretended to carry a Maine State Employees Association (MSEA) sign in a quickly identified attempt to run off with it. The MSEA is a local of the Service Employees International Union.

“That’s union-paid-for property!” one purple-clad SEIU demonstrator yelled.

The blonde, dreadlocked and face-pierced demonstrator was undeterred: “You are hijacking our movement! You aren’t occupiers!”

As the crowds began to split, self-appointed, orange-vested “safety marshals” were called to protect the union’s property from the “99 percent.”

“SEIU has supported Occupy from the beginning,” Maine SEIU organizer Bill MacDonald told a marshal.

“If there are any altercations,” he warned, “the police are our fraternal brothers and sisters.”

LOL

159 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:14:29pm

re: #152 funky chicken

How sick were these people?

Did they all have organ transplants or something?

Half a million/2 sick kids/5 years isn't hard. I burned about 60K on 2 silly kidney stones this year, without spending quite an overnight in the hospital.

160 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:15:39pm

re: #155 funky chicken

Back on topic, "to catch a journalist" doing what? Being home?

As noted above, it's likely an attempt to push the "You can't support the 99% if you're 'rich'" meme that's been going around in recent weeks.

161 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:15:43pm

re: #154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Y'all seen this? Fascinating.

The study, by sociologists Elaine Howard Ecklund of Rice and Kristen Schultz Lee of the University at Buffalo, found that many atheists want their children exposed to religion so that they can make up their own minds on what to believe. In addition, church may provide a better understanding of morality and ethics, and occasionally attending services may ease the conflict between spouses who disagree over the value of religion to their children, the study contends.

That probably describes me rather well. As an only child, I parent an only child. Belonging to a church that my cousins belonged to gave me a sense of belonging. That is very important for a child.

The difference is that I don't tell my kid what to believe. Many religious parents do. I don't get that. Faith has to be an individual thing if it is true.

162 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:17:37pm

I have to say my parents were great when it came to not forcing religion. I did CCD briefly but I got bored with it and my parents respected that. And despite what holier than thou individuals may believe I still got positive values impressed on me by them.

163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:17:45pm

re: #158 NJDhockeyfan

yougottafuckingbekiddingme.

164 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:18:47pm

re: #158 NJDhockeyfan

That writer's a right wing hack with about as much credibility as Limbaugh. Great post.

165 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:19:32pm

re: #158 NJDhockeyfan

LOL Daily Caller.

166 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:19:46pm

re: #163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

yougottafuckinbekiddingme.

Sometimes the jokes just write themselves.

167 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:20:01pm

bbiab

168 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:21:09pm

re: #164 palomino

That writer's a right wing hack with about as much credibility as Limbaugh. Great post.

the younger dirtier crowd line amused me. It's like wow you're really writing what your readers want to hear. I go to DC a lot and the Occupy crowd there is far from the caricature that article wants to make of them. Hell they were today saying the police need a raise and were cordial with the cops.

169 jvic  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:21:32pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, it's an interesting tidbit, but there's not much to discuss. It's weird, it might have been some random nut, it might have been another O'Keefe routine. Who knows?

If you got something to add, throw it out there.

While responding a telephone survey regarding the state of the economy, I became increasingly uncomfortable as the questions became more specific. It got to a point at which I hung up the phone.

Business plan for evil geeks: mimic such surveys and sell the personal information you learn to credit bureaus etc.

170 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:22:11pm

re: #164 palomino

That writer's a right wing hack with about as much credibility as Limbaugh. Great post.

Well I'm sure the SEIU and the hippies will be all over the left-wing hack websites tomorrow claiming this story is bullshit.

171 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:23:50pm

re: #168 HappyWarrior

the younger dirtier crowd amused me. It's like wow you're really writing what your readers want to hear. I go to DC a lot and the Occupy crowd there is far from the caricature that article wants to make of them. Hell they were today saying the police need a raise and were cordial with the cops.

The term hippies is kind of a dead giveaway of the agenda you're pursuing, especially when it's in the headline. It's not 1969, and this isn't Woodstock. But if you can use a pejorative trope from the old days to trash the whole movement, why not?

172 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:24:04pm

re: #160 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As noted above, it's likely an attempt to push the "You can't support the 99% if you're 'rich'" meme that's been going around in recent weeks.

Huh. That's kinda ... interesting. I read some comment up above about Michelle Malkin and granite counters or something? We have granite tile counters in our house, and we certainly aren't rich.

And I have a feeling Ms. Malkin and family have a lot more in the bank accounts than we do, so WTF? They really are trolling for the angry white trash vote, I guess.

173 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:24:06pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

Well I'm sure the SEIU and the hippies will be all over the left-wing hack websites tomorrow claiming this story is bullshit.

Tell us more about Sinead O'Connor too

You're really batting a thousand here champ, maybe next you'll serve us up some World Net Daily


maybe a side of Breitbart with mashed potatoes

maybe some Newsbusters for dessert!

174 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:25:40pm

Washington Times mentions that SEIU members were with the Occupy people at a march down K street, but doesn't mention any arguments:
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

175 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:26:21pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

Well I'm sure the SEIU and the hippies will be all over the left-wing hack websites tomorrow claiming this story is bullshit.

Surely you can link to a non wingnut site to back it up?
The Daily Caller has no credibility. Just look at their bullshit posts on AGW.
Wait...

176 palomino  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:26:44pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

Well I'm sure the SEIU and the hippies will be all over the left-wing hack websites tomorrow claiming this story is bullshit.

Whatever, I don't know. My point is that the author is so predisposed to hating OWS that his "reporting" should be viewed with lots of skepticism.

As for hippies, the use of the term in this context is absurd. It's not 1969 anymore.

177 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:27:17pm

re: #174 jaunte

Washington Times mentions that SEIU members were with the Occupy people at a march down K street, but doesn't mention any arguments:
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

The moonies didn't report the altercation?

//

178 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:28:01pm

re: #177 NJDhockeyfan

I don't think they like hippies.

179 makeitstop  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:28:14pm

File this under 'bound to happen sooner or later.'

'Mythbusters' Accidentally Shot a Cannonball Into Someone's Home

180 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:28:25pm

re: #175 Varek Raith

Surely you can link to a non wingnut site to back it up?
The Daily Caller has no credibility. Just look at their bullshit posts on AGW.
Wait...

I see left wing sites posted here all the time and nobody complains. Are right leaning websites off limits now?

181 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:29:17pm

Police arrest 62 as Occupy protesters target lobbyists

Tensions flared at one point when members of Occupy DC, which took over McPherson Square on K Street two months ago, openly accused SEIU organizers of attempting to "co-opt" the entire Occupy movement for its own agenda.

182 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:29:27pm

lots of jurisdictions have wiretapping statutes mr. o'keefe

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:29:52pm

re: #180 NJDhockeyfan

I see left wing sites posted here all the time and nobody complains. Are right leaning websites off limits now?

yes, because that's the only criteria that matters 9_9


is it LEFT?!?!?!


or RIGHT?!?!?!

it's like arguing with a child

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:29:55pm

re: #160 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As noted above, it's likely an attempt to push the "You can't support the 99% if you're 'rich'" meme that's been going around in recent weeks.

This matches the "you can't be the 99% if you support Israel" meme that I encountered on Monday night.

People don't seem to understand the difference between finances and politics very well sometimes.

185 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:30:03pm

Actually I saw some SEIU members at Mcpherson Square when I went down there because I've been meaning to check it out and they seemed cordial with the Occupy people. And again I laugh at Daily Caller's attempt to make every student sympathetic to this movement in to a right wing caricature of student liberals. Dreadlocks? NExt you'll tell me they had Che shirts and were quoting Chomsky. There are people like that of course but Daily Caller does not understand your average student activist at all or his motivations. I guess you're a spoiled brat to protest policies that want to cut student loans and Pell Grants. Nerve of kids to want to get an education.

186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:31:06pm

re: #179 makeitstop

File this under 'bound to happen sooner or later.'

'Mythbusters' Accidentally Shot a Cannonball Into Someone's Home

187 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:32:07pm

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

This matches the "you can't be the 99% if you support Israel" meme that I encountered on Monday night.

People don't seem to understand the difference between finances and politics very well sometimes.

That's stupid. I have mixed feelings about the movement as a whole but the people who were out there like what they stand for or not are dedicated sobs. It was cold, wet, and windy.

188 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:32:24pm

re: #179 makeitstop

File this under 'bound to happen sooner or later.'

'Mythbusters' Accidentally Shot a Cannonball Into Someone's Home

Since no one was hurt...

LOL.

189 recusancy  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:32:57pm

re: #180 NJDhockeyfan

I see left wing sites posted here all the time and nobody complains. Are right leaning websites off limits now?

"Leaning"? lol

190 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:33:48pm

re: #179 makeitstop

File this under 'bound to happen sooner or later.'

'Mythbusters' Accidentally Shot a Cannonball Into Someone's Home

They are going to visit the families who met their cannonball and apologize.

Apologetic 'Mythbusters' talk about cannonball accident

I hope this makes it into a future episode.

191 recusancy  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:33:56pm

re: #180 NJDhockeyfan

I see left wing sites posted here all the time and nobody complains. Are right leaning websites off limits now?

You don't see Dem Underground posted here do you?

192 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:34:35pm

re: #180 NJDhockeyfan

I see left wing sites posted here all the time and nobody complains. Are right leaning websites off limits now?

The Daily Caller is not 'leaning'.
They are full bore wingnut.
Like WND.
As for the lefty sites, care to point to any we've posted as obvious BS?

193 recusancy  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:34:48pm

re: #190 NJDhockeyfan

They are going to visit the families who met their cannonball and apologize.

Apologetic 'Mythbusters' talk about cannonball accident

I hope this makes it into a future episode.

Wait. You like science and apologies. RINO!

194 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:35:12pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

Actually I saw some SEIU members at Mcpherson Square when I went down there because I've been meaning to check it out and they seemed cordial with the Occupy people. And again I laugh at Daily Caller's attempt to make every student sympathetic to this movement in to a right wing caricature of student liberals. Dreadlocks? NExt you'll tell me they had Che shirts and were quoting Chomsky. There are people like that of course but Daily Caller does not understand your average student activist at all or his motivations. I guess you're a spoiled brat to protest policies that want to cut student loans and Pell Grants. Nerve of kids to want to get an education.

The OWS needs as much union presence as it can get. Disciplined bulky middle-middles are part of the answer to unwelcome Black Bloc provocateurs.

195 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:35:54pm

I think it would be a great honor if the Mythbusters shot a cannonball into my house.
XD

196 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:37:22pm

re: #191 recusancy

You don't see Dem Underground posted here do you?

The anti-Semitic lefty hate blog HuffPo is posted here on a daily basis.

197 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:38:58pm

re: #194 Decatur Deb

The OWS needs as much union presence as it can get. Disciplined bulky middle-middles are part of the answer to unwelcome Black Bloc provocateurs.

The unions actually have some legit beefs. The Black Bloc people though are the kind of people who make me feel conservative and I don't like feeling conservative heh.

198 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:39:06pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

They were wearing Che T-shirts and quoting Chomsky?

OMG!

(youstartedit)

199 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:39:25pm

re: #195 Varek Raith

I think it would be a great honor if the Mythbusters shot a cannonball into my house.
XD

Would you settle for a BB gun shot at your mailbox by a Mythbuster fan?

200 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:39:28pm

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

The anti-Semitic lefty hate blog HuffPo is posted here on a daily basis.

anyone else want to take this one?

batter up!

201 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:40:17pm

In that video I posted upstream, around 16 minutes in John Cook, the proprietor of the SkepticalScience website, gives a talk about the psychology of debunking.

Well worth the watching.

202 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:41:12pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

Would you settle with a BB gun shot at your mailbox by a Mythbuster fan?

Only if you sign the bb.

203 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:42:02pm

re: #201 freetoken

In that video I posted upstream, around 16 minutes in John Cook, the proprietor of the SkepticalScience website, gives a talk about the psychology of debunking.

Well worth the watching.

Can't watch the video just yet, as it's getting late in my timezone - did he identify a tactic that's particularly effective?

204 recusancy  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:42:11pm

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

The anti-Semitic lefty hate blog HuffPo is posted here on a daily basis.

They're a tabloid worth about as much as toilet paper but they aren't an "anti semitic hate blog". lol

205 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:42:43pm

re: #201 freetoken

In that video I posted upstream, around 16 minutes in John Cook, the proprietor of the SkepticalScience website, gives a talk about the psychology of debunking.

Well worth the watching.

Watching it now.

206 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:43:11pm

re: #198 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They were wearing Che T-shirts and quoting Chomsky?

OMG!

No they weren't. I was mocking the Daily Caller. Never have liked Chomsky and the only Che shirt I will own is mocking people who wear Che shirts.

207 Locker  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:44:08pm

It doesn't really matter who writes what for which website. When an article is 99pct opinion and the 1pct presented as fact has no reference, it's bullshit. Doesn't matter which way it leans.

208 funky chicken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:44:19pm

Well, good night everybody.

209 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:44:54pm

re: #200 WindUpBird

anyone else want to take this one?

Stormfront is most definitely an anti-semitic site, and they call AGW a "Jewish conspiracy". Ergo, if you deny AGW, you're supporting the positions of an anti-semitic hate blog :P

210 albusteve  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:45:09pm

re: #194 Decatur Deb

The OWS needs as much union presence as it can get. Disciplined bulky middle-middles are part of the answer to unwelcome Black Bloc provocateurs.

I got Vinnie and Vito ready to go..you need union guys?

211 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:45:20pm

re: #207 Locker

It doesn't really matter who writes what for which website. When an article is 99pct opinion and the 1pct presented as fact has no reference, it's bullshit. Doesn't matter which way it leans.

Yeah it was the whole line stereotyping the younger protesters that irked me. Had to giggle about the leather jacket line because I don't think many people were wearing those today unless they like wet leather.

212 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:46:09pm

re: #209 publicityStunted

Stormfront is most definitely an anti-semitic site, and they call AGW a "Jewish conspiracy". Ergo, if you deny AGW, you're supporting the positions of an anti-semitic hate blog :P

WE GOTTA CONNECT THE DOTS!!

213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:46:29pm

re: #206 HappyWarrior

No they weren't. I was mocking the Daily Caller. Never have liked Chomsky and the only Che shirt I will own is mocking people who wear Che shirts.

sigh... it was a jokedy joke.

214 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:47:15pm

G'night knuckleheads.

215 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:47:25pm

re: #209 publicityStunted

Stormfront is most definitely an anti-semitic site, and they call AGW a "Jewish conspiracy".

I can't argue with that. They wrote the book on hate.

216 jvic  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:47:44pm

OWS...HuffPo...1960s...

Which gives me a pretext to link Radley Balko's piece tracing police militarization from its inception in the 1960s.

Also worthwhile: Driven By Drug War Incentives, Cops Target Pot Smokers, Brush Off Victims Of Violent Crime

217 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:48:06pm

re: #211 HappyWarrior

Yeah it was the whole line stereotyping the younger protesters that irked me. Had to giggle about the leather jacket line because I don't think many people were wearing those today unless they like wet leather.

Hippie-punching always!

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:48:20pm

re: #216 jvic

OWS...HuffPo...1960s...

Which gives me a pretext to link Radley Balko's piece tracing police militarization from its inception in the 1960s.

Also worthwhile: Driven By Drug War Incentives, Cops Target Pot Smokers, Brush Off Victims Of Violent Crime

aaaand hippie punching always

219 makeitstop  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:49:58pm

re: #190 NJDhockeyfan

They are going to visit the families who met their cannonball and apologize.

Apologetic 'Mythbusters' talk about cannonball accident

I hope this makes it into a future episode.

You and me both. If the homeowners are MB fans, it'll happen.

220 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:50:10pm

re: #216 jvic

OWS...HuffPo...1960s...

Which gives me a pretext to link Radley Balko's piece tracing police militarization from its inception in the 1960s.

Also worthwhile: Driven By Drug War Incentives, Cops Target Pot Smokers, Brush Off Victims Of Violent Crime

This is why the Drug War sucks. Priorities are just not in order.

221 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:51:11pm

Oh hey, some wingnut lobbyist flack just followed me on Twitter. Should I block him, or taunt him with a constant stream of LOLGOP retweets? :P

222 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:51:56pm

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

sigh... it was a jokedy joke.

Sorry this is just text on line. Hard for me to tell sometimes.

223 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:51:56pm

re: #203 publicityStunted

Can't watch the video just yet, as it's getting late in my timezone - did he identify a tactic that's particularly effective?

The entire session (not just Cook) tackles that problem. Recommend watching the whole thing.

224 recusancy  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:52:11pm

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

The anti-Semitic lefty hate blog HuffPo is posted here on a daily basis.

Actually, you know, I'm curious... What evidence do you have that huffpo is an anti semitic hate blog? The commentors? Because if you go to any unmoderated site you'll find anti semitism and hate.

226 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:52:34pm

re: #221 publicityStunted

Oh hey, some wingnut lobbyist flack just followed me on Twitter. Should I block him, or taunt him with a constant stream of LOLGOP retweets? :P

#Gingrichisachode :)
Yes I have the maturity of a 13 year old at times.

227 Stephen T.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:53:03pm

re: #14 ggt

I'm amazed the guy really thought it was a Verizon employee in the first place. They just don't do that. No one does that except political people or criminals.

Having done the exact job described in the story for Verizon (Usually as a followup to recent service) I can say that it isn't unreasonable.

228 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:53:05pm

re: #225 jaunte

WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!

229 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:53:18pm
230 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:54:16pm

Happy Holidays from the Texas Dept. Of Fake Smiles!
[Link: governor.state.tx.us...]

231 bratwurst  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:57:04pm

This business about naming your cabinet before you get nominated, much less elected (a la Newt's love letter to John Bolton), SEEMS like a great idea...except that it is...uh...not really legal.

232 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:57:21pm

re: #188 Varek Raith

Since no one was hurt...

LOL.

boyz!

233 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:57:55pm

re: #195 Varek Raith

I think it would be a great honor if the Mythbusters shot a cannonball into my house.
XD

New House!

234 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:58:02pm

re: #205 Varek Raith

Watching it now.

The third presentation btw hits on the 5 big myths, and the 5th and latest one is exactly that in which Huntsman engaged this week.

235 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:58:40pm

re: #215 NJDhockeyfan

I can't argue with that. They wrote the book on hate.

One of my husband's friends from Reddit recently discovered Stormfront, at the age of twenty-something. Freaked the hell out.

236 Lidane  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:59:34pm

Looks like Fox is feeling a bit of blowback over calling the Muppets anti-capitalist. Eric Bolling apologized for it today.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 8:59:47pm

re: #227 Scarecrow237

Having done the exact job described in the story for Verizon (Usually as a followup to recent service) I can say that it isn't unreasonable.

Did you ever ask anyone about the 99%, them working from home, or share that you were happy to have a job in this economy?

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:00:16pm

re: #201 freetoken

In that video I posted upstream, around 16 minutes in John Cook, the proprietor of the SkepticalScience website, gives a talk about the psychology of debunking.

Well worth the watching.

Help me, I can't find your post with the video.

thx

239 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:01:25pm

re: #236 Lidane

The Muppets are much bigger than Bolling will ever be. It was a stupid fight for him to pick.

240 Mocking Jay  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:01:38pm

re: #236 Lidane

Looks like Fox is feeling a bit of blowback over calling the Muppets anti-capitalist. Eric Bolling apologized for it today.

That man is the stupidest sack of shit on television.

241 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:02:21pm

re: #236 Lidane

Looks like Fox is feeling a bit of blowback over calling the Muppets anti-capitalist. Eric Bolling apologized for it today.

I will not accept it as sincere unless Bolling subjects himself to a full-scale roast by these guys.

242 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:02:57pm

re: #240 JasonA

That man is the stupidest sack of shit on television.

Lot's of competition for that title.

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:03:56pm

re: #216 jvic

OWS...HuffPo...1960s...

Which gives me a pretext to link Radley Balko's piece tracing police militarization from its inception in the 1960s.

Also worthwhile: Driven By Drug War Incentives, Cops Target Pot Smokers, Brush Off Victims Of Violent Crime

That needs to be a Pages Post!

244 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:05:17pm

The first thread that I go to at HuffPo shows that the anti-Semitism hasn't changed there.

Rutgers University Anti-Semitism Allegation Investigated By U.S. Department Of Education

The U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights is investigating Rutgers University for its response to alleged anti-Semitic harassment, according to documents obtained by The Huffington Post.

The Zionist Organization of America, a right-leaning Jewish advocacy group, presented the government with claims that Jewish students at Rutgers have been the object of anti-Semitic intimidation on Facebook by an employee of the university -- and that the university did not respond properly.

...The complaint quotes alleged comments that the ZOA says the Outreach Coordinator for Rutgers' Center for Middle Eastern Studies made on Facebook about a Jewish student. The comments quoted by the ZOA complaint refer to the student as a "racist Zionist pig!!!!!!!!" and exhort others to look for the Jewish student's Facebook "hate page."

And how does the inclusive members of HuffPo respond?

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gary James
39 Fans

I don't believe a word that the ZOA spits out.

...................

Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
156 Fans

The defense of obvious and hateful anti-Semit­ism on this thread, though not particular­ly surprising­, is disgusting­.

(Some common sense does exist in that cesspool called the Huffington Post)

....................

photo
Kobus Van Kleef
167 Fans

Interestin­g to see these Zionists and Neo-Cons show up and start hurling accusation­s as is they were above all criticism. Naturally anyone who disagrees with bombing Iran (or any other nation in the ME) on Israel's behalf is automatica­lly an anti-Semit­e. This won't play well when people can connect the dots so easily on the internet.

......................

GiddyUpBoy
44 Fans

anti-semit­ism=anyone who disagrees with the racist ''chosenit­e' policies of Israel and of Zionist Judaism.

There is NO group of people on earth that is superior or 'chosen'.

Those that believe that will continue to receive LARGE persecutio­ns.

There are a lot of these on there:

This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]

To see what they do allow to be posted on their website is bad enough, I can't imagine how bad those deleted posts look like.

245 Mocking Jay  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:05:24pm

re: #242 freetoken

Lot's of competition for that title.

I know, I know. Judge Napolitano's definitely in the running too.

246 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:06:11pm

re: #227 Scarecrow237

Having done the exact job described in the story for Verizon (Usually as a followup to recent service) I can say that it isn't unreasonable.

Really?

I've never had such an knock on my door from anyone except political entities and scammers.

Perhaps there are different municipal codes involved? Our village requires a permit. Would be a PITA to get a permit from every little village in the Chicago burbs.

247 Stephen T.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:06:32pm

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

Is there some epidemic of people living in million dollar houses getting welfare and thus destroying the American economy?

Yes, yes there is.

248 HappyWarrior  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:07:01pm

re: #231 bratwurst

This business about naming your cabinet before you get nominated, much less elected (a la Newt's love letter to John Bolton), SEEMS like a great idea...except that it is...uh...not really legal.

Rudy or Christie would be who I'd expect Romney to pick for AG which wouldn't be as bad as Newt picking Bolton for SoS.

249 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:07:29pm

re: #235 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my husband's friends from Reddit recently discovered Stormfront, at the age of twenty-something. Freaked the hell out.

I never heard of them until I joined LGF. I think it was when Charles found pictures on their website including Ron Paul if I remember correctly.

250 albusteve  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:08:49pm

re: #247 Scarecrow237

Yes, yes there is.

epidemic, really?...you wanna go back 200 posts fine...your claim is ludicrous

251 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:09:51pm

Oh shit, it's past midnight.

Cheers! See ya in the morning :)

252 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:10:15pm

re: #250 albusteve

epidemic, really?...you wanna go back 200 posts fine...your claim is ludicrous

The epidemic is not that they are causing ruin to the economy, it is that the economy has caused ruin to the $1M homeowners (who probably shouldn't have signed the loan papers for a $1M home in the first place).

The circle of greed is amazing.

253 albusteve  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:12:04pm

re: #252 ggt

The epidemic is not that they are causing ruin to the economy, it is that the economy has caused ruin to the $1M homeowners (who probably shouldn't have signed the loan papers for a $1M home in the first place).

The circle of greed is amazing.

that's another issue...I know all about greed, the IRS put me in jail

254 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:12:43pm

re: #253 albusteve

that's another issue...I know all about greed, the IRS put me in jail

Wait, what?

255 Stephen T.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:12:51pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

We were specifically trained to never alter a single word in the script. The surveys didn't last long. First we were replaced by outside contractors doing the followup, then, when the temps started breaking into homes after seeing the nice stuff inside, they ended all together.

This was back a while, shortly after Bell Atlantic became Verizon. Door to door anything in my area requires no permits of any kind. Though areas and homes posted "No Soliciting" were to be avoided.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:14:35pm
257 engineer cat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:15:50pm

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

Is there some epidemic of people living in million dollar houses getting welfare and thus destroying the American economy?

T.A.R.P.

258 recusancy  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:16:51pm

re: #244 NJDhockeyfan

Ok. Thank you for making my point. It's the commentors you are talking about. Not the site.

259 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:21:23pm

re: #207 Locker

It doesn't really matter who writes what for which website. When an article is 99pct opinion and the 1pct presented as fact has no reference, it's bullshit. Doesn't matter which way it leans.

But everyone knows that if it is fact-based it has to be liberal since reality has a liberal bias.
///

260 darthstar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:22:18pm
261 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:22:26pm
262 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:23:30pm

re: #260 darthstar

Of course it was back in 2003. I guess he should describe himself as "no longer ashamed."

263 Stephen T.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:23:52pm

re: #250 albusteve

epidemic, really?...you wanna go back 200 posts fine...your claim is ludicrous

There are quite a few people who live in (multi) million dollar homes who received welfare... of the corporate type.

Don't you remember that there were bailouts?

264 albusteve  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:26:49pm

re: #263 Scarecrow237

There are quite a few people who live in (multi) million dollar homes who received welfare... of the corporate type.

Don't you remember that there were bailouts?

quite a few?...how many?
these rubes did not bring down the economy...a side show at best

265 jvic  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:28:10pm

re: #243 ggt

That needs to be a Pages Post!

Thanks for the good words. I seem to be better received in the main forums than in the Pages, but be my guest if you wish. This might be of interest too, regarding how it can be a major felony to record police as they interact with you.

266 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:29:43pm

re: #265 jvic

Thanks for the good words. I seem to be better received in the main forums than in the Pages, but be my guest if you wish. This might be of interest too, regarding how it can be a major felony to record police as they interact with you.

I saw that too! I thought there was just a federal court decision about that?

267 jaunte  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:30:00pm

Episode CCLXXXI: Contrived outrage!

"It’s a holiday tree. It’s a christmas tree. It’s a pagan relic. It’s gaily decorated fluff. It’s a dead tree."

268 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:30:29pm

re: #260 darthstar

And he calls himself a Christian...sheesh.

The demiurge will surely smite his balls with a baleful pestilence.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:32:58pm

re: #258 recusancy

Ok. Thank you for making my point. It's the commentors you are talking about. Not the site.

We're pretty scathing about the quality of commenters on Fox and Hot Air and such.

270 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:37:07pm

re: #225 jaunte

Rick Perry’s office wished Texans ‘happy holidays’ instead of ‘merry Christmas’

Oops.
[Link: governor.state.tx.us...]

Obviously he's a Gozer worshiper.

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

We're pretty scathing about the quality of commenters on Fox and Hot Air and such.

Because their primary past time is finding clever filter avoiding ways to type out the n-word. Huffpo may have a problem, but it's far more subtle and the forum appears to be somewhat policed by a human being. I'm not seeing attempts to paint whole ethnicities as animalistic or an overwhelming preoccupation with racial epithets like I see at Fox, Hot Air, etc.

271 Interesting Times  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:37:22pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

We're pretty scathing about the quality of commenters on Fox and Hot Air and such.

Because the website owners blatantly tolerate and encourage it. There are disgusting comments on Yahoo as well, but I don't see people going after Yahoo as a site per sae. That's because, unlike Fox Nation, they don't throw out blatant lies and dogwhistles (at least in the mainstream articles; not sure what kind of "opinion" section they have).

272 makeitstop  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:47:02pm

It never, ever ends. Ever.

Santorum: We Don’t Need Food Stamps Because Obesity Rates Are So High

You have to admire the sheer density of Derp. It's like derp going nova and collapsing in on itself.
/

273 jvic  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:47:37pm

re: #266 ggt

I saw that too! I thought there was just a federal court decision about that?

Come to think of it, you're right: here in MA. Also in OR state court. But, per my link above, apparently not in IL.

The issue may need to be settled by SCOTUS. I'm not sure how they'd rule. I mean, think of all the violence that could have been prevented had the LA police arrested the Rodney King filmer and destroyed the recording. /// /// ///

274 Kragar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:48:02pm

re: #272 makeitstop

It never, ever ends. Ever.

Santorum: We Don’t Need Food Stamps Because Obesity Rates Are So High

You have to admire the sheer density of Derp. It's like derp going nova and collapsing in on itself.
/

His statement saying we have to let people know we're conducting covert operations takes the cake.

275 makeitstop  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:49:55pm

re: #274 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

His statement saying we have to let people know we're conducting covert operations takes the cake.

This is a close #2.

It's pretty scary that someone so ill-informed can be elected to any office in our government, let alone running for president.

276 jvic  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:51:02pm

Good night, all. Feliz Navidad, Governor Perry.

277 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:51:59pm

re: #267 jaunte

"Fox & Friends". The perpetual answer to a question no one asked.

Up next with Steve Doocy: Why Your Socks Don't Darn Themselves? Islamic Terrorist Plot, or Secular Humanist Agenda to Destroy the Footwear of Good American Christians? We Report, You Decide.

278 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:53:23pm

re: #273 jvic

Come to think of it, you're right: here in MA. Also in OR state court. But, per my link above, apparently not in IL.

The issue may need to be settled by SCOTUS. I'm not sure how they'd rule. I mean, think of all the violence that could have been prevented had the LA police arrested the Rodney King filmer and destroyed the recording. /// /// ///

Well, regardless of a federal decision, Chicago will always have it's own extra-legal ways of doing things . . . .

279 engineer cat  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:53:35pm

Don't Need Food Stamps Because Obesity Rates Are So

but i don't want to eat fat people

280 Kragar  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:54:06pm

re: #277 Slumbering Behemoth

"Fox & Friends". The perpetual answer to a question no one asked.

Up next with Steve Doocy: Why Your Socks Don't Darn Themselves? Islamic Terrorist Plot, or Secular Humanist Agenda to Destroy the Footwear of Good American Christians? We Report, You Decide.

If Steve Doocy was a lemming, none of the others would follow him off a cliff

281 freetoken  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:54:17pm

re: #272 makeitstop

Hmmm... Le Mars... is that French for "The Mars", as in the planet whose representative is Michelle Bachmann?

Anyway, I seem to recall that I have a relative that lives there, or near there (way too many relatives to keep track). Might very well be a Santorum fan.

Strange topic for Santorum to pick up in Iowa. Does he not know that the Food Stamp program was politically feasible in part because the big farm state politicians saw it as a way of increasing consumption of farm production? Is not Santorum aware of the all the food price crises in the 20th century that drove American farmers to the brink? Does Santorum understand why the USDA was created in the first place?

Those are rhetorical questions, btw.

282 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:54:26pm

re: #277 Slumbering Behemoth

"Fox & Friends". The perpetual answer to a question no one asked.

Up next with Steve Doocy: Why Your Socks Don't Darn Themselves? Islamic Terrorist Plot, or Secular Humanist Agenda to Destroy the Footwear of Good American Christians? We Report, You Decide.

Ah, F&F.
Der, Derp and Derpy.

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:55:26pm

re: #279 engineer dog

Don't Need Food Stamps Because Obesity Rates Are So

but i don't want to eat fat people

I think I can speak for FBV and CV.

We Concur.

284 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:55:38pm

Elizabeth Warren leading Brown in MA by 7 points:[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

286 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:59:03pm

re: #284 prairiefire

Good to hear.

Where is Sergey? I've heard about the bollocks going on in Russia.

287 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:59:50pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

How dare they not apply proper, christian nomenclature to our cherished, pagan traditions. It's un-American!

288 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:02:26pm

You are what you eat.

I need to find a skinny person and eat her.

(I stole this.)

289 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:02:38pm

re: #265 jvic

Thanks for the good words. I seem to be better received in the main forums than in the Pages, but be my guest if you wish. This might be of interest too, regarding how it can be a major felony to record police as they interact with you.

I made a page about that ;-) might have scrolled off tho

290 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:04:06pm

re: #289 WindUpBird

I made a page about that ;-) might have scrolled off tho

That must be where I saw it!

:)

291 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:05:16pm

I know this is a thread highjack post. But after reading all the anger over Obama not approving Plan B for minors, as a parent, I would not be OK with my minor child having access to any drugs without my consent. The arguments that children would be scared to confide with their parents does not suffice. Should an equally scared child after contracting a VD be allowed to have access to antibiotics over the counter?

Why does my views seem to enrage folks?

292 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:05:43pm

re: #288 EmmmieG

Tonight, This. With slender pork chops.

Highly recommended.

293 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:08:39pm

re: #291 boxhead

I know this is a thread highjack post. But after reading all the anger over Obama not approving Plan B for minors, as a parent, I would not be OK with my minor child having access to any drugs without my consent. The arguments that children would be scared to confide with their parents does not suffice. Should an equally scared child after contracting a VD be allowed to have access to antibiotics over the counter?

Why does my views seem to enrage folks?

Because that same child could get married in many states without her parents consent.

294 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:09:36pm

re: #291 boxhead

I know this is a thread highjack post. But after reading all the anger over Obama not approving Plan B for minors, as a parent, I would not be OK with my minor child having access to any drugs without my consent. The arguments that children would be scared to confide with their parents does not suffice. Should an equally scared child after contracting a VD be allowed to have access to antibiotics over the counter?

Why does my views seem to enrage folks?

Because as a 16 year old, I would have chosen an illegal abortion before I would have gone to my parents.

295 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:12:43pm

re: #294 ggt

Because as a 16 year old, I would have chosen an illegal abortion before I would have gone to my parents.

I feel for you. But what about antibiotics then?

296 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:14:22pm

re: #293 ggt

Because that same child could get married in many states without her parents consent.

Age of consent would matter.... But then when is a parent no longer legally responsible for the actions of a child?

297 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:15:40pm

re: #295 boxhead

I feel for you. But what about antibiotics then?

The young woman should be able to go to clinic and see a doctor and get her prescription filled in PRIVATE.

298 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:17:59pm

re: #294 ggt

Because as a 16 year old, I would have chosen an illegal abortion before I would have gone to my parents.

Who would you have asked for guidance? And if something went wrong, God forbid, who will live with the quilt? I guess I am feeling overly protective, but it comes with the job.

299 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:18:13pm

re: #296 boxhead

Age of consent would matter... But then when is a parent no longer legally responsible for the actions of a child?

Family law is very complex and there are to cut and dried rules. Every situation seems to be different and yes it drives me crazy.

The point of all of this is that before Roe V Wade young women died from illegal abortions.

Frankly, if a parent is so concerned, why isn't the daughter already on birth control?

The reality is that young people are not going to share their sexuality with their parents. The medical should not be barred to them because of it.

300 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:18:52pm

re: #297 ggt

The young woman should be able to go to clinic and see a doctor and get her prescription filled in PRIVATE.

At what age should that be OK?

301 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:20:23pm

re: #299 ggt

Family law is very complex and there are to cut and dried rules. Every situation seems to be different and yes it drives me crazy.

The point of all of this is that before Roe V Wade young women died from illegal abortions.

Frankly, if a parent is so concerned, why isn't the daughter already on birth control?

The reality is that young people are not going to share their sexuality with their parents. The medical should not be barred to them because of it.

What age should that be OK?

302 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:20:39pm

re: #300 boxhead

Act what age should that be OK?

ANY AGE.

4 if she she seriously thinks she is pregnant or has contracted VD.

303 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:21:17pm

re: #302 ggt

ANY AGE.

4 if she she seriously thinks she is pregnant or has contracted VD.

really? then why have parents at all?

304 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:22:06pm

re: #302 ggt

ANY AGE.

4 if she she seriously thinks she is pregnant or has contracted VD.

might as well have the State raise our children.

305 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:22:58pm

Really, at 4 she could have contracted VD from her father - - -

going to her parents would really help her wouldn't it?

306 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:24:24pm

You cannot force motherhood on a women in this country.

307 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:26:57pm

re: #305 ggt

Really, at 4 she could have contracted VD from her father - - -

going to her parents would really help her wouldn't it?

Yes... this is the same argument presented to me before. Because some parents are bad, all should lose their Rights to raise their children. That is a very slippery slope.

308 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:31:36pm

re: #306 ggt

You cannot force motherhood on a women in this country.

I am not saying that. At all.... What I am saying is that removing parental oversight from minor children is something I do not feel OK with. Being a parent is a serious thing. I take it as such. And until my child is of age, raised such that they will have the where with all to make good choices, I want to be part of any major choices.

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:33:54pm

re: #291 boxhead

I know this is a thread highjack post. But after reading all the anger over Obama not approving Plan B for minors, as a parent, I would not be OK with my minor child having access to any drugs without my consent. The arguments that children would be scared to confide with their parents does not suffice. Should an equally scared child after contracting a VD be allowed to have access to antibiotics over the counter?

Why does my views seem to enrage folks?

Because this is an area where people tend to fear gray areas, and it touches on a whole ganglion of emotional issues. Is my guess.

How do you make sure a very young woman has access to everything she needs to take care of her body and control her sexuality and fertility, without putting her at risk?

Damned if I know.

310 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:34:16pm

re: #308 boxhead

I am not saying that. At all... What I am saying is that removing parental oversight from minor children is something I do not feel OK with. Being a parent is a serious thing. I take it as such. And until my child is of age, raised such that they will have the where with all to make good choices, I want to be part of any major choices.

Did the daughter involve the parent in the choice to have sex?

Regardless of the law, or your parenting skills, the choice is out of your hands. The daughter will do what she chooses to do. She should not be barred from the medical community because of it.

If your child hasn't come to you of her own accord, the law can't make her either. She'll find another way.

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:35:18pm

re: #295 boxhead

I feel for you. But what about antibiotics then?

More medically complicated, for one thing. It's much easier to diagnose yourself with 'had sex without protection' than to diagnose yourself with, say, 'chlamydia'.

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:36:46pm

re: #298 boxhead

Who would you have asked for guidance? And if something went wrong, God forbid, who will live with the quilt? I guess I am feeling overly protective, but it comes with the job.

Who WILL live with the quilt?

I guess that was supposed to be 'guilt'?

313 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:41:16pm

re: #310 ggt

Did the daughter involve the parent in the choice to have sex?

Regardless of the law, or your parenting skills, the choice is out of your hands. The daughter will do what she chooses to do. She should not be barred from the medical community because of it.

If your child hasn't come to you of her own accord, the law can't make her either. She'll find another way.

Yes, and all people, children included, will do what they choose. So if my child goes out and destroys another's property. Am I not responsible? No law or parental voice can make anyone do anything. Should we have all laws rewritten based on that? Should parents be removed from all responsibility based on that? IMHO, there has to be responsibility between the parents and their children. If laws are broken due to bad parents, that is another issue.

314 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:41:32pm

re: #298 boxhead

Who would you have asked for guidance? And if something went wrong, God forbid, who will live with the quilt? I guess I am feeling overly protective, but it comes with the job.

I guess I missed this question.

Who would I have gone to guidance. ANYONE but my parents.

At 16, I made an appointment with our family doctor and got on birth control. I would have asked other girl's I knew how they handled the situation. I have older family members that I trusted (college age). Everyone knew where to go for an abortion --there was one clinic in the city and you needed $300 and someone to drive you.

I hate to break it to you, but parents are a very small part of teenager's lives.

If you haven't done what you needed to has a parent by 16, you've lost your chance.

315 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:41:44pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

Who WILL live with the quilt?

I guess that was supposed to be 'guilt'?

lol... you should see some of my quilts...

316 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:42:53pm

re: #313 boxhead

Yes, and all people, children included, will do what they choose. So if my child goes out and destroys another's property. Am I not responsible? No law or parental voice can make anyone do anything. Should we have all laws rewritten based on that? Should parents be removed from all responsibility based on that? IMHO, there has to be responsibility between the parents and their children. If laws are broken due to bad parents, that is another issue.

Under the law, liability for property damage caused by a minor child is not the same as laws concerning the child's personal body.

It's not cut and dried.

317 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:45:09pm

re: #308 boxhead

I am not saying that. At all... What I am saying is that removing parental oversight from minor children is something I do not feel OK with. Being a parent is a serious thing. I take it as such. And until my child is of age, raised such that they will have the where with all to make good choices, I want to be part of any major choices.

Would you seriously exercise veto power over your daughter's decision to abort an unwanted pregnancy, or is this desire for you to have final say in the matter purely academic and based on your own selfish needs? Seems to me either your daughter is going to trust you enough to inform you or she isn't, and if not then relying on the government to enforce a trust bond that's already non-existent doesn't strike me as something you're especially owed by society.

318 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:45:37pm

Actually, as I understand it, the court ruled that the morning-after pill is not available without a prescription--not necessarily without parental consent --no?

Which makes sense. It shouldn't be OTC.

319 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:47:18pm

re: #317 goddamnedfrank

Would you seriously exercise veto power over your daughter's decision to abort an unwanted pregnancy, or is this desire for you to have final say in the matter purely academic and based on your own selfish needs? Seems to me either your daughter is going to trust you enough to inform you or she isn't, and if not then relying on the government to enforce a trust bond that's already non-existent doesn't strike me as something you're especially owed by society.

It's a sign of need to be in control or ownership.

Parents have a hard time letting go. Children are not property. Fathers, especially, feel responsible for their daughters.

One of the main reasons I wouldn't have told my parents is that my Dear Ole' Dad probably would have taken a shotgun to the young man.

Seriously.

320 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:48:27pm

re: #314 ggt

I guess I missed this question.

Who would I have gone to guidance. ANYONE but my parents.

At 16, I made an appointment with our family doctor and got on birth control. I would have asked other girl's I knew how they handled the situation. I have older family members that I trusted (college age). Everyone knew where to go for an abortion --there was one clinic in the city and you needed $300 and someone to drive you.

I hate to break it to you, but parents are a very small part of teenager's lives.

If you haven't done what you needed to has a parent by 16, you've lost your chance.

I do understand.... And I think 16 is OK for Plan B over the counter. If younger children are able to think properly, it will vary wildly. I do believe that is something were to go wrong when a child takes these choices on their own, it will be the parents that will suffer for the rest of their lives.

arrrr...... truly I do understand what you are saying... and that is why I posted my question. So thank you. I guess I just have a over developed sense of protection for my child. I guess it comes from being a single parent.

321 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:50:05pm

re: #320 boxhead

I do understand... And I think 16 is OK for Plan B over the counter. If younger children are able to think properly, it will vary wildly. I do believe that is something were to go wrong when a child takes these choices on their own, it will be the parents that will suffer for the rest of their lives.

arrr... truly I do understand what you are saying... and that is why I posted my question. So thank you. I guess I just have a over developed sense of protection for my child. I guess it comes from being a single parent.

All you can do is reinforce to your child that you are there NO MATTER what. That you are mostly concerned for her health and well being and if something happens you will NOT JUDGE her, but only want to make sure she gets the RIGHT information and the BEST treatment available.

322 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:50:09pm

re: #318 ggt

Actually, as I understand it, the court ruled that the morning-after pill is not available without a prescription--not necessarily without parental consent --no?

Which makes sense. It shouldn't be OTC.

It is OTC for adults, and the medical professionals at the FDA advised making it OTC for minors as well. Sebellius overruled this decision, an action apparently without precedent. I understand her decision on purely political grounds, but think it's a shame (to put it mildly) that the FDA head is making such a ruling based on politics.

323 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:50:29pm

re: #318 ggt

Actually, as I understand it, the court ruled that the morning-after pill is not available without a prescription--not necessarily without parental consent --no?

Which makes sense. It shouldn't be OTC.

It's a little more complicated. Women who are 17 and older can buy it OTC, without a prescription, women 16 and under need a prescription. Parental consent isn't needed, unless it would be required by state law, I guess.

I don't know. I had a prescription called in the one time I used it. I was twenty-six, I think, so that was over ten years ago.

324 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:51:01pm

re: #322 goddamnedfrank

It is OTC for adults, and the medical professionals at the FDA advised making it OTC for minors as well. Sebellius overruled this decision, an action apparently without precedent. I understand her decision on purely political grounds, but think it's a shame (to put it mildly) that the FDA head is making such a ruling based on politics.

Yep, the FDA isn't what it should be.

sigh

325 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:51:28pm

re: #317 goddamnedfrank

Would you seriously exercise veto power over your daughter's decision to abort an unwanted pregnancy, or is this desire for you to have final say in the matter purely academic and based on your own selfish needs? Seems to me either your daughter is going to trust you enough to inform you or she isn't, and if not then relying on the government to enforce a trust bond that's already non-existent doesn't strike me as something you're especially owed by society.

All I want to be able to do is talk. And fully support her decision so that she would know I have her back. Is that asking too much? What I don't want is Government taking that away from me.

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:52:44pm

re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist

It's a little more complicated. Women who are 17 and older can buy it OTC, without a prescription, women 16 and under need a prescription. Parental consent isn't needed, unless it would be required by state law, I guess.

I don't know. I had a prescription called in the one time I used it. I was twenty-six, I think, so that was over ten years ago.

And I don't know if I actually needed a prescription, or if my doctor was just being helpful, after getting a call that probably didn't make much sense.

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:53:27pm

re: #320 boxhead

I do understand... And I think 16 is OK for Plan B over the counter. If younger children are able to think properly, it will vary wildly. I do believe that is something were to go wrong when a child takes these choices on their own, it will be the parents that will suffer for the rest of their lives.

arrr... truly I do understand what you are saying... and that is why I posted my question. So thank you. I guess I just have a over developed sense of protection for my child. I guess it comes from being a single parent.

I notice my hubby having a very hard time as our son gets older. I keep wanting to say "it isn't about YOU" or "it isn't YOUR life."

Maybe it's easier for mothers because (at least for me) I lost him a long time ago. My little boy hasn't been "my little boy" for a long, long time. I've been greiving for 10 years over it. I miss that little guy a lot.

328 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:53:47pm

re: #319 ggt

It's a sign of need to be in control or ownership.

Parents have a hard time letting go. Children are not property. Fathers, especially, feel responsible for their daughters.

One of the main reasons I wouldn't have told my parents is that my Dear Ole' Dad probably would have taken a shotgun to the young man.

Seriously.

Need to control or ownership? wow.... could not be further from the truth. It comes from LOVING your child and wanting to help them succeed. Letting them know that no matter what, they are always loved.

329 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:54:14pm

re: #325 boxhead

All I want to be able to do is talk. And fully support her decision so that she would know I have her back. Is that asking too much? What I don't want is Government taking that away from me.

It wouldn't be the government taking it from you. She would be. She'll come to you or not, regardless of the the law.

330 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:54:59pm

re: #321 ggt

All you can do is reinforce to your child that you are there NO MATTER what. That you are mostly concerned for her health and well being and if something happens you will NOT JUDGE her, but only want to make sure she gets the RIGHT information and the BEST treatment available.

OK... I agree, but how can that happen without parents being involved?

331 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:55:45pm

re: #328 boxhead

Need to control or ownership? wow... could not be further from the truth. It comes from LOVING your child and wanting to help them succeed. Letting them know that no matter what, they are always loved.

There is a weird dynamic involved here.

What my Dad would have seen as Love, I would have seen as control.

332 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:56:27pm

re: #330 boxhead

OK... I agree, but how can that happen without parents being involved?

The point is to say that to your child BEFORE it ever becomes an issue. Afterwards is too late.

333 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 10:59:45pm

Shit, my Dad still felt responsible after I'd been married for 17 years.

I know it's a sign of a good Dad, but from my point of view, it made me feel like chattel.

334 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:00:15pm

re: #331 ggt

There is a weird dynamic involved here.

What my Dad would have seen as Love, I would have seen as control.

I know this. When I was a child, I did not understand what my parents were doing. I swore I knew better. Only as I got older did I see exactly what they were doing. Granted, they were very rough around the edges in communicating their intents, but I do understand. Control over youths not yet able to make life decisions seems appropriate. Letting them know that you are doing that is much harder.

335 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:00:46pm

re: #325 boxhead

All I want to be able to do is talk. And fully support her decision so that she would know I have her back. Is that asking too much? What I don't want is Government taking that away from me.

The government was never going to take that away from you, even if the FDA's proposed ruling went though. Nobody's forcing daughters to ignore their parents and these kinds of discussions should be had in advance anyway. Tell your daughter she can come to you with this kind of thing and odds are she will if it happens, but don't phrase it like the government might take some opportunity away from you. You have that opportunity right now, no need to wait for a pregnancy to exercise it. Also, underage girls can acquire Plan B right now through their adult female friends, this technical rule barring OTC sales is porous and difficult if not impossible to enforce as it is.

336 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:00:51pm

re: #325 boxhead

All I want to be able to do is talk. And fully support her decision so that she would know I have her back. Is that asking too much?What I don't want is Government taking that away from me.

I totally understand that, but government cannot grant a parent communication, only control. They can't give you a child who trusts you, or makes a decision you're comfortable with. Only you, the kid, and luck, can do that. What they can give you (or not) is the option to control a teenage daughter's access to birth control, and that's the issue we're all worried about.

Like I said earlier, there's this terrifying sliding scale between "What if she's being abused at home, or would be abused, or the parents would harm her, or prevent her from getting proper birth control?" and "What if she's being abused by someone else and the parents don't know, what if she makes bad decisions because no one told her things, what if she thinks it's okay to have sex with a guy in high school when she's eleven and then just take some Plan B?" These are all realistic fears. We have to navigate between them as best we can.

337 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:01:22pm

re: #332 ggt

The point is to say that to your child BEFORE it ever becomes an issue. Afterwards is too late.

I agree. But afterwards helps to reassure your child is still loved.

338 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:02:54pm

re: #330 boxhead

OK... I agree, but how can that happen without parents being involved?

Parents have to be involved, but I am skeptical that governmentally required involvement is good enough. It's gotta come from the functioning family, and the kid.

And at some point, a teenager is going to make choices that exclude her parents. It's what they do.

339 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:03:14pm

re: #333 ggt

Shit, my Dad still felt responsible after I'd been married for 17 years.

I know it's a sign of a good Dad, but from my point of view, it made me feel like chattel.

Sorry, I smiled a bit at this. I so know that feeling from my dad...

340 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:04:21pm

re: #337 boxhead

I agree. But afterwards helps to reassure your child is still loved.

Well, if you don't know about it, which would be her choice . . .

I think sexuality is a very private thing. I don't and didn't think it was any of my parent's business. It is and was between me and my partner and my doctor.

Sounds to me like you would be better talking with a counselor about your fears. I'm not objective enough and I don't know the laws in your area.

341 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:04:52pm

re: #338 SanFranciscoZionist

Parents have to be involved, but I am skeptical that governmentally required involvement is good enough. It's gotta come from the functioning family, and the kid.

And at some point, a teenager is going to make choices that exclude her parents. It's what they do.

Yes... and it is how they grow and become adults. That is why there are limits in what choices they are allowed to make. The older they get, the more freedom they get. seems like a good plan

342 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:06:10pm

re: #337 boxhead

I agree. But afterwards helps to reassure your child is still loved.

The proposed rule change was designed for people who simply don't think like this. People whose thoughts are dominated by concepts like hell, damnation, and punishment, not love.

343 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:08:14pm

re: #340 ggt

Well, if you don't know about it, which would be her choice . . .

I think sexuality is a very private things. I don't and didn't think it was any of my parent's business. It is and was between me and my partner and my doctor.

Sounds to me like you would be better talking with a counselor about your fears. I'm not objective enough and I don't know the laws in your area.

The only fears are based on drugs with side effects or medical procedures with risks. I feel exactly the same in any circumstance. That this debate revolves around a very personal issue makes the waters much more murky.

344 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:08:32pm

re: #323 SanFranciscoZionist

It's a little more complicated. Women who are 17 and older can buy it OTC, without a prescription, women 16 and under need a prescription. Parental consent isn't needed, unless it would be required by state law, I guess.

I don't know. I had a prescription called in the one time I used it. I was twenty-six, I think, so that was over ten years ago.

So, under 16, you have to see a doctor or nurse practitioner. Probably makes sense to make sure the girl was abused or raped. To make sure she has had the correct sex ed, because we know she didn't get it in school.

I'd hope it would be good medical care for the girl anyway.

345 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:10:49pm

re: #343 boxhead

The only fears are based on drugs with side effects or medical procedures with risks. I feel exactly the same in any circumstance. That this debate revolves around a very personal issue makes the waters much more murky.

I don't know. I picture myself as a teenager today --with the internet and all. I would have had the correct information. Probably would have arranged to spend the night at a girl friends, so if I had major cramps or something, she would be there.

ANYTHING buy my parents.

346 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:16:22pm

re: #342 goddamnedfrank

The proposed rule change was designed for people who simply don't think like this. People whose thoughts are dominated by concepts like hell, damnation, and punishment, not love.

I know.... I suppose allowing minor women to have choices without condemnation from their family is a worthy goal. And I understand that. But because I see this, does not mean that those very same condemning parents think they are correct.

Quite the minefield to negotiate.

347 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:18:24pm

re: #345 ggt

ANYTHING buy my parents.

Not to dig, but do you wish otherwise?

348 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:22:01pm

re: #347 boxhead

Not to dig, but do you wish otherwise?

No

As I said, I thought and still feel my sexuality not their business.

349 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:24:51pm

re: #348 ggt

No

As I said, I thought and still feel my sexuality not their business.

OK.... Thanks for hashing this out with me. I believe I have a better understanding now.

350 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:26:11pm

I have one girlfriend whose daughter's come to her for every type of advise. It makes her a very good friend, but diminishes her ability to parent.

She has a hard time with boundaries. Her kids are also pretty messed-up.

I probably think of her a lot when I think of how I handle things with my kid. It's also easier because he's a he and isn't going to come to me for much in the sex department.

351 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:27:55pm

re: #349 boxhead

OK... Thanks for hashing this out with me. I believe I have a better understanding now.

Glad to help, but remember, I am not a professional. And am certainly not objective on this subject.

352 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:31:04pm

re: #351 ggt

Glad to help, but remember, I am not a professional. And am certainly not objective on this subject.

No, but your passion is real. And I do remember my fears to talk with my parents.

353 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:33:20pm

re: #351 ggt

Glad to help, but remember, I am not a professional.

Well professional or not, I do feel much better... :) Have you a tip jar?

354 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:34:44pm

re: #352 boxhead

No, but your passion is real. And I do remember my fears to talk with my parents.

I don't know if it is just fears with me. There something about my rights as an individual. In times past, women's sexuality was very much under the legal & societal control of their parents or husband.

I have big issues with that.

If we want our daughters to be independent people, we have to respect their sexuality and their rights to privacy as well.

The Whackos™ would be very happy to undo all the progess we have acheived in that respect. Women's rights are a very fragile thing and it's women who have to hold on to fight for them and be worthy of them.

355 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:35:13pm

re: #353 boxhead

Well professional or not, I do feel much better... :) Have you a tip jar?

No, but you can tip Charles for providing the forum.

LOL

356 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:46:47pm

re: #354 ggt

I don't know if it is just fears with me. There something about my rights as an individual. In times past, women's sexuality was very much under the legal & societal control of their parents or husband.

I have big issues with that.

being male, I can only strive to understand. I fully hold that women are equal. But with the knowledge that men and women are different. And if a man is lucky, he will come to value those differences. Loving those differences is better. That is reason number one why I have a problem with cultures that treat women as less than equal.

If we want our daughters to be independent people, we have to respect their sexuality and their rights to privacy as well.

The Whackos™ would be very happy to undo all the progess we have acheived in that respect. Women's rights are a very fragile thing and it's women who have to hold on to fight for them and be worthy of them.

True.... We are seeing the Righties doing this now. Our Western Allies are looking at us like we have gone mad.

357 boxhead  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:48:35pm

re: #355 ggt

No, but you can tip Charles for providing the forum.

LOL

I do from time to time. But I am not on his $10 a month thing that removes ads. How many do this? I have thought about doing this as well.

I also bought and use both cook books!

358 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:53:06pm

re: #356 boxhead

being male, I can only strive to understand. I fully hold that women are equal. But with the knowledge that men and women are different. And if a man is lucky, he will come to value those differences. Loving those differences is better. That is reason number one why I have a problem with cultures that treat women as less than equal.

True... We are seeing the Righties doing this now. Our Western Allies are looking at us like we have gone mad.

I don't know boxhead. There are some pretty weird dynamics between fathers and daughters. I only hope that as a country we can continue to produce fathers who see women as people and draw clear boundries between responsibility as a person and responsibility as a possession.

I read something a while back written by a man who lost his wife (she divorced him) because his reaction to her rape. After some counselling he figured out that he felt that HIS property had been stolen/misused by another man. He had no clue that's how he reacted.

It's a weird, weird phenom.

359 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 7, 2011 11:53:36pm

re: #357 boxhead

I do from time to time. But I am not on his $10 a month thing that removes ads. How many do this? I have thought about doing this as well.

I don't. I can live with the ads.

I try to support Charles thru Amazon when I can.

360 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:00:36am

re: #358 ggt

I don't know boxhead. There are some pretty weird dynamics between fathers and daughters. I only hope that as a country we can continue to produce fathers who see women as people and draw clear boundries between responsibility as a person and responsibility as a possession.

I read something a while back written by a man who lost his wife (she divorced him) because his reaction to her rape. After some counselling he figured out that he felt that HIS property had been stolen/misused by another man. He had no clue that's how he reacted.

It's a weird, weird phenom.

I lost my wife to cancer. And I know that is why I am overly protective. Hence this thread. Silly thing is that I know I am doing this. Instinctual. But I have learned to let go.... little by little... sometimes dragging my toenails across the cement... heh.... but we are doing great.

361 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:01:40am

re: #360 boxhead

I lost my wife to cancer. And I know that is why I am overly protective. Hence this thread. Silly thing is that I know I am doing this. Instinctual. But I have learned to let go... little by little... sometimes dragging my toenails across the cement... heh... but we are doing great.

Glad to hear it!

I'm sorry about your loss. How horrible.

Just prepare yourself for being on your own someday. Emancipated children are sign of successful parenting!

362 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:03:16am

re: #360 boxhead

I lost my wife to cancer. And I know that is why I am overly protective. Hence this thread. Silly thing is that I know I am doing this. Instinctual. But I have learned to let go... little by little... sometimes dragging my toenails across the cement... heh... but we are doing great.

Luckily, daughters tend to dote on their Dads as they get older.

I know I did. Had him wrapped around my finger 'til the end. :)

roles reverse.

363 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:03:48am

re: #361 ggt

Glad to hear it!

I'm sorry about your loss. How horrible.

Just prepare yourself for being on your own someday. Emancipated children are sign of successful parenting!

I will be sad, but much more happy, proud, excited. And I have plans for that room! lol

364 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:05:44am

re: #361 ggt

Glad to hear it!

I'm sorry about your loss. How horrible.

Just prepare yourself for being on your own someday. Emancipated children are sign of successful parenting!

I will be sad, but much more happy, proud, excited. And I have plans for that room! lol

365 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:07:34am

...

366 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:09:46am

..

367 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:12:37am

weird....

368 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:20:46am

Yeah, I had issues updating my past post on this thread. Finally gave up.

I was trying to describe how I had my Dear Ole' Dad wrapped around my little finger.

Towards the end, I was the only one who could tell him to stay on his diabetic diet. If I told him not to eat something, he wouldn't.

HA!

369 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:20:47am

sorry about the multiple posts, but I kept hanging when I pressed post.

370 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:21:26am

re: #368 ggt

Yeah, I had issues updating my past post on this thread. Finally gave up.

I was trying to describe how I had my Dear Ole' Dad wrapped around my little finger.

Towards the end, I was the only one who could tell him to stay on his diabetic diet. If I told him not to eat something, he wouldn't.

HA!

That is very cool.... :)

371 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:22:15am

re: #370 boxhead

That is very cool... :)

Worked really well for me when I was 20 and needed a car . . .

"DAAADdddyyyy, I need a car . . ."

:)

372 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:23:12am

re: #371 ggt

Worked really well for me when I was 20 and needed a car . . .

"DAAADdddyyy, I need a car . . ."

:)

Now that... eeeevil! :) I bet you did not even need to do the DAAAADdddyy.

373 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:23:23am

20 (ahem) + years later, he gave me his car so I could drive him around!

374 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:23:48am

re: #372 boxhead

Now that... eeevil! :) I bet you did not even need to do the DAAADdddyy.

He felt responsible that I have a safe car . . . .

Weird phenom.

:)

375 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:23:59am

re: #373 ggt

20 (ahem) + years later, he gave me his car so I could drive him around!

lol... so now he wins!

376 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:24:17am

re: #374 ggt

He felt responsible that I have a safe car . . .

Weird phenom.

:)

just love...

377 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:24:26am

re: #375 boxhead

lol... so now he wins!

still cost him a car!!!

378 boxhead  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:25:00am

Thanks again ggt.... I must sleep now... take care

379 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:25:19am

me too!

Night all!

Have a great evening/morning.

380 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 1:16:30am

Newt Gingrich is "peaking" too soon ... He will not get the GOP nod. It will be Romney. I have felt for years that Mitt was the best of a weak GOP field. There are many reasons why he is the best choice.

381 researchok  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 1:27:37am

Morning, all

382 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 1:33:52am

re: #380 _RememberTonyC

Sadly, there are fewer reasons every day why I feel he's the best choice, as he panders and flops around.

383 freetoken  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 2:30:59am

Down in Durban the numerous ministers are giving their speeches. They're somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Todd Stern just delivered the US statement. Started off with some women ranting in the balcony so they had to wait till she was gotten rid of (no pepper spray, evidently.)

Anyway, just the normal diplo-speak.

The Saudi minister is up shortly. It's Mr. Ali I. Al-Naimi, a name which some might recognize as he is often in the news... for a very good reason - he's the Minister of Petroleum. Yup, Mr. Oil himself. Fascinating that KSA chose him to give the speech, I wonder what sort of message was intended.

384 freetoken  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 2:32:54am

Stern goes straight from his speech to the daily scheduled US press conference. Good timing.

385 freetoken  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 2:40:05am

KSA - "energy is important to all states whether exporters or importers"....

386 freetoken  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 2:52:04am
387 EdDantes  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 3:15:23am

re: #383 freetoken
I remember the Saudi oil minister during the embargo of '73. The appropriately named Sheik Ahmed Zaki Yamani.

388 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 3:26:24am

Zero tolerance Policies are a BITCH!!
Principal forced out over 9-year-old's 'sexual harassment' suspension

"One mistake in 44 years, and I'm not given the benefit of the doubt. I really don't believe I was treated fairly,"

Also,
Good Morning!

389 freetoken  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 3:48:30am

So, what's really going on down in Durban?

I'm thinking of writing up a Page with that title. So many people (including most of the NGOs at the conference) are caught up in the Kabuki theatre that the big picture is being ignored.

390 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 3:51:03am

re: #388 rwdflynavy

Zero tolerance Policies are a BITCH!!
Principal forced out over 9-year-old's 'sexual harassment' suspension

Also,
Good Morning!

I read a couple of the background news stories and local comments. This is a pretty good example of the new media's worst tendency--pronounced opinion based on a minimum of facts. Reading what is available, it is possible that the kid, the teacher, the principal, the school board, or the mother could all be the necessary villain.

'Morning, all.

391 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 3:58:34am

re: #390 Decatur Deb

I read a couple of the background news stories and local comments. This is a pretty good example of the new media's worst tendency--pronounced opinion based on a minimum of facts. Reading what is available, it is possible that the kid, the teacher, the principal, the school board, or the mother could all be the necessary villain.

'Morning, all.

My money is not on the 9 year old.

392 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:06:13am

re: #391 rwdflynavy

My money is not on the 9 year old.

Really just don't know. He could be a victim of a mindless bureaucracy, or an angel-faced monster who scared the shit out of his teacher. The mistake might have been in the "sexual harassment" bit instead of "terminal disrespect".

(Disclosure statement--Daughter One teaches in a juvenile jail. One of her pupils last year was a 9 yr old down for attempted murder of his grandmother.)

393 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:13:23am

re: #392 Decatur Deb

Really just don't know. He could be a victim of a mindless bureauocracy, or an angel-faced monster who scared the shit out of his teacher. The mistake might have been in the "sexual harassment" bit instead of "terminal disrespect".

(Disclosure statement--Daughter One teaches in a juvenile jail. One of her pupils last year was a 9 yr old down for attempted murder of his grandmother.)

The mother's name is Chiquita. I'm not sure how to process that. I guess it's better than celebrities who name their kids apple. At least Chiquita is a proper noun and a brand name. Oh wait, so is Apple. Now I'm more confused.
//

394 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:15:35am

re: #393 rwdflynavy

The mother's name is Chiquita. I'm not sure how to process that. I guess it's better than celebrities who name their kids apple. At least Chiquita is a proper noun and a brand name. Oh wait, so is Apple. Now I'm more confused.
//

Get ready for a generation of bright hipster kids named 'Nook' or 'Kindle'.

395 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:20:07am

re: #394 Decatur Deb

Get ready for a generation of bright hipster kids named 'Nook' or 'Kindle'.

i freakin' hate hipsters.

Image: I-must-go-my-hipster-planet-needs-me.jpg

396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:23:36am

Grim Reaper's having some fun this week.

Barbara Orbison (Roy's wife), Dobie Gray, and Harry Morgan.

My favorite role of Harry Morgan? Judge Mel Coffey in "Inherit the Wind".

397 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:27:35am

re: #396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Great movie.

Hasn't been on telly for ages.

398 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:31:00am

re: #396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Honestly? I thought Harry and Dobie had already died.

Abe Vigoda?

399 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:33:10am

re: #398 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just saw a young Vigoda in some MST3k. Made me smile.

400 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:37:18am

re: #399 Obdicut

I think it's cool that he has a good sense of humor regarding his mortality. He turned 90 this year.

401 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:41:30am

re: #400 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I met one of those genetic freaky people yesterday who's seventy-two and looks about fifty. Swims five miles every day, too. Some people are just blessed.

My dad, on the other hand, looked ten years younger three years ago. He's starting to really show his age faster, and he refuses to do a damn thing about his weight, or getting more exercise than mowing the lawn. He grew up really poor, and so food is a psychological comfort thing for him, it's really hard to get him to diet.

I hope he keeps busy in retirement, 'cuz that's a very dangerous time period for heart attacks. You go from being someone important to someone who doesn't draw any water at all and it can really mess up your immune system.

402 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:47:06am

re: #401 Obdicut

My father in law is 80. Walks 8 minute mile for about 10 miles a week.

Gardens. Mows his own lawn.

If I drive to the bank and the dry cleaners in the same day? I need a nap.

403 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:50:39am

re: #402 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If I drive to the bank and the dry cleaners in the same day? I need a nap.

I heard some stand-up comic riff on that when I was growing up.

I'm a stellar errand-do-er. On my list today is shopping at two different markets, going to the bank, and cleaning the floors. On top of a full workday.

When I was young, I wanted to be a concierge. It seriously sounded like the best job. People want a wombat at 2:00 AM? I'm there.

404 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:50:54am

Kinda sorta interesting bit from O'Keefe's YT channel:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

About a months ago he "liked" this video:

Buchanan: War among Americans
Pat Buchanan shares his concerns about whites becoming a minority in the U.S. and picks his GOP "dream ticket."

About 3 months ago he "liked" this:

Ron Paul Courageously Speaks the Truth

405 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 4:58:51am

I found this snotty, pretentious list:

The 10 Lamest Things You Can Order in a Restaurant

Snotty and pretentious because most of the things listed are the only things that a vegetarian/vegan/kosher-observant/halal-observant person would be allowed to eat at a business affair.

The snotty, pompous and pretentious person who wrote this article seems to think that the reason people order these items is because they are stupid and lame--not because there is nothing else for them to eat.

406 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:02:31am

re: #405 Alouette

I don't even get the point of this list. The author wants what? For people to not order things that aren't 'worth it', at restaurants? That's pretty much everything.

And this bit:

Only in cases of sheer laziness or manorexia should a diner order a $7 plate of cut-up fruit for their entree.

What is manorexia? A man with anorexia? Why does that need a special word? And if they have anorexia, they shouldn't order the fruit, they should order the burger, they just won't.

Bizarre, pointless article, freaky that someone actually got paid to write it.

407 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:03:28am

OK, help me out. My memory of Sinead ripping up a picture of the Pope wasn't about child abuse at the time. I am not down playing the horror of the priests raping little boys, my father wasn't raped, but was hit on by a priest when he was a young teen (and the priest was a family friend), so this is common knowledge in my household.

408 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:05:01am

re: #407 Shropshire_Slasher

Nope, it was about child abuse. The song she sang that night she changed the lyrics of to switch from being about racism to being about child abuse.

I don't think ripping up the picture was smart or anything, but she was very prescient about the child abuse scandal.

409 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:07:14am

re: #408 Obdicut

Okay, I can't watch vids now, but all of the articles (archived)I found never mentioned that, even when she was interviewed shortly thereafter .she didn't specifically say that, I must be getting senile.

410 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:08:59am

re: #406 Obdicut

I don't even get the point of this list. The author wants what? For people to not order things that aren't 'worth it', at restaurants? That's pretty much everything.

And this bit:

Only in cases of sheer laziness or manorexia should a diner order a $7 plate of cut-up fruit for their entree.

What is manorexia? A man with anorexia? Why does that need a special word? And if they have anorexia, they shouldn't order the fruit, they should order the burger, they just won't.

Bizarre, pointless article, freaky that someone actually got paid to write it.

I have found myself in situations where I could not avoid a "business lunch" with co-workers and there is a very limited selection available.

The "fruit plate" is the classic item that a kosher-observant Jew can order at a non-kosher restaurant while dining with business associates. I was just surprised that the author of this stupid article, not to mention the editor was so multiculturally clueless not to realize this.

But then, it is a snotty, pretentious restaurant blog, that kosher-observant, halal-observant, and vegans don't normally visit (I followed a link from HuffPost)

411 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:09:13am

re: #115 NJDhockeyfan

That's only one couple.

Well except for that other couple, and the 3 dozen others mentioned in the article. But yeah, only that one. And I think that popular welfare queen in the Caddy has multiple personalities.

412 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:10:32am

re: #409 Shropshire_Slasher

Well, the fact that she changed Bob Marley's "War" song to include a protest against child abuse is pretty clear that that is at least one of the thing she was protesting. She was probably also protesting the second-class citizen status women have in the Catholic Church, and probably other things as well, but child abuse is something she specifically changed the words of the song to go after, so it was obviously a significant thing for her.

Why is this coming up again? I forget.

413 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:12:24am

re: #410 Alouette

I spend very little time caring what other people order at restaurants, anyway.

414 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:12:41am

re: #412 Obdicut

Why is this coming up again? I forget.

I thought she was dead...

415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:14:54am

re: #410 Alouette

I saw an article about the worst things in a restaurant to order (in chains) from the nutritional side. That was a helpful article.

Worst thing you can order at a chain in America? Outback, Cheese Fries with bacon. Over 3,000 calories...

416 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:15:18am

re: #413 Obdicut

I spend very little time caring what other people order at restaurants, anyway.

Apparently that is the whole point of the blog, which is sponsored by the restaurant industry, to pass judgement on what people order.
.

417 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:18:12am

re: #412 Obdicut

Comment #33
My memory of this differed.
Wiki had the same child abuse version to 1995
Very 1984ish to me anyway.

418 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:18:23am

re: #415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[Link: www.menshealth.com...]

419 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:19:15am

re: #415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I saw an article about the worst things in a restaurant to order (in chains) from the nutritional side. That was a helpful article.

Worst thing you can order at a chain in America? Outback, Cheese Fries with bacon. Over 3,000 calories...

I think that if you are concerned about the environment, one of the best things you can do is to never eat at a franchise restaurant.

420 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:19:28am

re: #414 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You are thinking of Harry Morgan aka Colonel Potter.

421 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:20:02am

Image: fos_yt.png

(just for memory)

422 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:21:00am

re: #417 Shropshire_Slasher

As much as John Paul seemed like a guy who was trying to do what was right, his participation in coverup of sexual abuse is going to forever taint his memory.

Since I'm not a Catholic, I don't care about their other internal problems, like not letting women become priests, etc. That's for them to sort out. If they don't-- and it seems like they're not-- then the Catholic Church is going to change in very fundamental ways. Ironic; by trying not to change, they're making change inevitable.

423 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:21:12am

re: #404 Sergey Romanov

Screenshotted for posterity's sake:
Image: okeefelikeswhites.jpg

The videos:

(CNN) Buchanan: War among Americans

(RonPaul2008dotcom) Ron Paul Courageously Speaks the Truth

424 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:21:51am

re: #418 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[Link: www.menshealth.com...]

We were driving back from Toronto a few weeks ago, and every rest stop along the 401 offered their own version of "poutine."

That is Canada's version of the "bloomin onion"

425 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:23:00am

Morning Lizardim.

426 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:24:30am

re: #423 000G

Why are the most stalwart defenders of the white race always the worst examples of it?

Image: resized_okeefe_mugshot_sm.jpg

Yeah, that looks like a genetically superior person right there. His ears are kind of fascinating, like a fleshy Möbius strip.

427 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:25:12am

re: #416 Alouette

Apparently that is the whole point of the blog, which is sponsored by the restaurant industry, to pass judgement on what people order.
.

And here I thought vegans were snotty and pretentious. This takes it to a whole new level.

428 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:26:52am

That was so 80's:
[Link: albarchive.merlinone.net...]
I don't think my kids know what albums are.

429 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:27:45am

The most odious part of the child abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, for me, is that the coverup included blaming American Catholics for being liberal, for being sexually tolerant, and claiming that's why it happened. That was before the scandals in France, Germany, Belgium, and Ireland were common knowledge. A lot of Vatican hierarchy were telling American Catholics the abuse of their children was their fault-- and that same hierarchy knew the problem was widespread.

That is unconscionable, to me. The church, if it has any good role to play in people's lives, is a comforter in sad times. That was an utter perversion of that role.

430 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:29:49am

re: #426 Obdicut

Don't want to pass judgements on specimen/phenotype relations; especially since my ears are able to drive a sailboat as well.

Anyhow, if anyone cannot play that CNN video (as I), then try this:

[Link: cnn.com...]

431 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:30:39am

re: #429 Obdicut

Its the good old boys club.
When I was a kid I was terrified my very RC father would have me be an alter boy, saw all my friends up there. He didn't reveal his past until I was an adult.

432 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:31:05am

re: #430 000G

Oh, I don't actually think physical appearance means that much, it's more just a riff on an old Preacher bit. The whole concept of genetic superiority makes no goddamn sense anyway.

433 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:32:09am

Now it's time to disappear into some serious work for awhile.

See y'all later.

434 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:32:33am

re: #430 000G

But you're not a Stalwart Defender of the White Race either :P

435 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:32:59am

re: #433 Obdicut

Now it's time to disappear into some serious work for awhile.

See y'all later.

(translation: gone to play skyrim)

436 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:33:01am

re: #429 Obdicut

A very common and disturbing sentiment among American conservatives seems to be that when it comes to discussing cases of child abuse, all of a sudden attacks are waged against liberals exposing kids to sexuality (via sex education, free contraceptives, etc.). As if liberal sexual morals somehow are conducive to child abuse. I really don't get that.

437 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:36:11am

re: #436 000G

A very common and disturbing sentiment among American conservatives seems to be that when it comes to discussing cases of child abuse, all of a sudden attacks are waged against liberals exposing kids to sexuality (via sex education, free contraceptives, etc.). As if liberal sexual morals somehow are conducive to child abuse. I really don't get that.

The basic train of thought is that liberal sexual morals enable people to be free to do what they please sexually, which includes the more perverted aspects. What the conservatives don't realize is that 1) perverts will be perverts, and 2) liberals don't support child molestation, rape, etc., any more than conservatives do. Once again, it's all about balance; proper sexual education without preaching free license to do as one pleases.

438 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:39:23am

re: #437 thedopefishlives

The basic train of thought is that liberal sexual morals enable people to be free to do what they please sexually, which includes the more perverted aspects. What the conservatives don't realize is that 1) perverts will be perverts, and 2) liberals don't support child molestation, rape, etc., any more than conservatives do. Once again, it's all about balance; proper sexual education without preaching free license to do as one pleases.

In fact children exposed to perhaps uncomfortable levels of sexual awareness are the least likely to make good victims. They'll more quickly go off shouting 'perve', 'pedobear', and 'stranger-danger'.

439 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:41:00am

re: #437 thedopefishlives

I think it all comes down to how you understand things like free will and consensuality (and how biological and mental maturity and capabilities factor into that). Conservatives seem to outright dismiss those concepts, at least when those seem to upset their preferred tradition of sexual morals.

440 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:45:28am

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Execution Case Dropped Against Abu-Jamal"

441 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:46:28am

re: #438 Decatur Deb

In fact children exposed to perhaps uncomfortable levels of sexual awareness are the least likely to make good victims. They'll more quickly go off shouting 'perve', 'pedobear', and 'stranger-danger'.

If I heard a kid shouting "PEDOBEAR" at some guy, my initial reaction would be to bust out laughing. Sure, I'd know what they mean, but I'd be temporarily derailed by the fact that some parent actually taught their kid about Pedobear.

442 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:49:43am

re: #441 thedopefishlives

If I heard a kid shouting "PEDOBEAR" at some guy, my initial reaction would be to bust out laughing. Sure, I'd know what they mean, but I'd be temporarily derailed by the fact that some parent actually taught their kid about Pedobear.

What do parents have to do with sex-ed? Read the stalls in a grade school boys' room (with an escort).

443 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:53:00am

re: #442 Decatur Deb

What do parents have to do with sex-ed? Read the stalls in a grade school boys' room (with an escort).

If you ask me, parents should have a lot to do with it, but I'm old-fashioned that way. I think I'd rather my kid learn about safe sex from me than from a teacher or, even worse, the other kids.

444 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 5:57:19am

re: #443 thedopefishlives

If you ask me, parents should have a lot to do with it, but I'm old-fashioned that way. I think I'd rather my kid learn about safe sex from me than from a teacher or, even worse, the other kids.

That was snark. I never sat down to have a talk with my 4 kids. We also never didn't talk about sex. (Kid's 10th-grade teacher wanted to know how an Alabama goy could answer the bonus question about Moshe Dayan on a history quiz. He told her about (but wouldn't repeat) a joke I had told him about a rabbi, a parrot, and MD.)

446 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:02:41am

I know this was yesterday's news with Mythbusters, but I liked the pics:
[Link: www.timesunion.com...]

447 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:08:12am

re: #436 000G

A very common and disturbing sentiment among American conservatives seems to be that when it comes to discussing cases of child abuse, all of a sudden attacks are waged against liberals exposing kids to sexuality (via sex education, free contraceptives, etc.). As if liberal sexual morals somehow are conducive to child abuse. I really don't get that.

I think I get the construct: you talk about sex, people have sex.

Therefore the opposite is true: you don't talk about sex, people don't have sex.

Call if Fight Club theory.

448 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:10:42am

re: #447 BigPapa

I think I get the construct: you talk about sex, people have sex.

Therefore the opposite is true: you don't talk about sex, people don't have sex.

Call if Fight Club theory.

Actually, that's pretty much how it works. They want a return to Victorian days, when nobody talked about sex and everybody was prim and proper and reserved. This modern licentiousness is appalling.

Of course, if one were to get into the real history of the Victorian era and its aftermath, I think we could nicely get some heads to asplode.

449 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:11:12am

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

The anti-Semitic lefty hate blog HuffPo is posted here on a daily basis.

That's a false equivalence. You're a right wing talking point bot.

How about Page your links and see if they stand on their own merit.

450 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:12:04am

Newt in Spanish, Romney in French, Huntsman in Chinese
[Link: www.slate.com...]

451 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:12:23am

Woot.

I've got a job interview tomorrow. Admin/Office gopher for a company in the "charity sector".

Part time leading to more hours if it works out.

452 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:14:19am

re: #451 wozzablog

Woot.

I've got a job interview tomorrow. Admin/Office gopher for a company in the "charity sector".

Part time leading to more hours if it works out.

Don't wear the Ayn Rand t-shirt.

453 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:14:33am

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

The anti-Semitic lefty hate blog HuffPo is posted here on a daily basis.

That's odd, I read HuffPo every day and I don't think it is an anti-Semitic lefty hate blog. Yeah, they have some batshit commenters posting there, but nothing worse than what you see at Fox or Yahoo.

454 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:17:34am

re: #453 Alouette

That's odd, I read HuffPo every day and I don't think it is an anti-Semitic lefty hate blog. Yeah, they have some batshit commenters posting there, but nothing worse than what you see at Fox or Yahoo.

It's not an 'anti Semitic hate blog.' NJD called it that after he got called out posting something from the Daily Caller, a site with (cough) a tad less credibility than HuffPo. HuffPo isn't perfect, but it's not that so easily discounted.

455 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:17:44am

re: #451 wozzablog

Woot.

I've got a job interview tomorrow. Admin/Office gopher for a company in the "charity sector".

Part time leading to more hours if it works out.

I hope it's not one of those internships where you have to pay them.

456 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:18:13am

re: #452 Decatur Deb

Don't wear the Ayn Rand t-shirt.

damn. ok, onto the next wardrobe choice *sigh*

457 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:18:24am

Remix of Sights and Sounds Recorded in Bhutan

458 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:23:56am

re: #454 BigPapa

I don't read HuffPo, so I hear only bits and pieces about it. One of them is that lotsa folks there promoted pseudoscience (in relation to medicine, like anti-vax nonsense, and whatnot). Doesn't speak well of credibility. Also, DailyCaller is, of course, a wingnut site, but it's nowhere near freerepublic etc. I don't see how it's worse to post than, say, DailyKos.

459 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:26:17am

re: #458 Sergey Romanov

I don't read HuffPo, so I hear only bits and pieces about it. One of them is that lotsa folks there promoted pseudoscience (in relation to medicine, like anti-vax nonsense, and whatnot). Doesn't speak well of credibility. Also, DailyCaller is, of course, a wingnut site, but it's nowhere near freerepublic etc. I don't see how it's worse to post than, say, DailyKos.

My biggest complaint about HuffPo is that they have more scam ads (57 Year Old Mom Looks 23! Doctors Hate her!) per page than any other news site I have ever seen.

460 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:28:44am

re: #455 Alouette

I hope it's not one of those internships where you have to pay them.

Sheesh. I know.
The whole job situation thing everywhere is in the toilet.

These "pay to work" ploys and other real jobs, actual productive jobs that are being labelled "apprenticeships" and 18-21 year olds are being "paid" £2.50 an hour are an economic cancer.

The consumer economy and credit will never recover if that is where the growth in "employment" and "job related activity" occurs.

461 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:31:48am

re: #460 wozzablog

The whole job situation thing everywhere is in the toilet.

Not really. I am pretty sure that in most quarters of earth more and more people find employment and wages are rising.

It's just the 1st world that is stagnating or sinking.

Funny how this works, sometimes.

462 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:32:55am

I knew these "pay to work" scams would become the next step once everyone got used to the "work for nothing" internships.

For us older workers, it "work for 70% of what you earned 10 years ago" but the price of everything has GONE UP from what it was 10 years ago.

463 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:36:14am

re: #458 Sergey Romanov

I don't read HuffPo, so I hear only bits and pieces about it. One of them is that lotsa folks there promoted pseudoscience (in relation to medicine, like anti-vax nonsense, and whatnot). Doesn't speak well of credibility. Also, DailyCaller is, of course, a wingnut site, but it's nowhere near freerepublic etc. I don't see how it's worse to post than, say, DailyKos.

True, anti-vax stuff got posted on HuffPo. But it's a conglomeration of a lot of writers, and the Daily Caller is basically a blog with Beck as the editor. The Daily Caller is a nicer Web 2.0 version of the FreeRepublic.

But it misses the point: NJD made an equivalence between the Daily Caller and that 'anti Semitic hate site HuffPo' when called on posting stuff from the Daily Caller. So the subject was changed from being a right wing talking point minion to comparing various blogs .

464 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:39:12am

re: #463 BigPapa

True, anti-vax stuff got posted on HuffPo. But it's a conglomeration of a lot of writers, and the Daily Caller is basically a blog with Beck as the editor. The Daily Caller is a nicer Web 2.0 version of the FreeRepublic.

But it misses the point: NJD made an equivalence between the Daily Caller and that 'anti Semitic hate site HuffPo' when called on posting stuff from the Daily Caller. So the subject was changed from being a right wing talking point minion to comparing various blogs .

Like its owner, HuffPo has been all around the block. They are both demonstrably lefty now, but Breitbart used to work for them.

465 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:39:22am

re: #461 000G

Not really. I am pretty sure that in most quarters of earth more and more people get jobs and wages are rising.

It's just the 1st world that is stagnating or sinking.

Funny how this works, sometimes.

There have been big hits taken in the second world as the first world consumer economy ground to a halt.

466 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:39:51am

re: #464 Decatur Deb

Like its owner, HuffPo has been all around the block. They are both demonstrably lefty now, but Breitbart used to work for them.

Isn't HuffPo owned by AOL now?

467 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:41:31am

re: #466 Alouette

Isn't HuffPo owned by AOL now?

Could be--I don't follow them. The masthead tells me Arianna's spirit must dwell there.

468 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:42:21am

re: #459 Alouette

My biggest complaint about HuffPo is that they have more scam ads (57 Year Old Mom Looks 23! Doctors Hate her!) per page than any other news site I have ever seen.

Browse with firefox or opera and install the "adblock plus" option (remembering of course to allow ads specifically on LGF, unless you are a subscriber (hi charles))

469 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:43:12am

re: #463 BigPapa

Daily Caller has nothing to do with Beck.

470 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:44:56am

Haven't seen a good Car Swarm in a long time.

471 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:45:59am

re: #470 Alouette

Haven't seen a good Car Swarm in a long time.

Ah, that brings back some memories.

472 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:49:09am

re: #469 Sergey Romanov

Daily Caller has nothing to do with Beck.

Sorry, I confused it with The Blaze. It is still a wingnut site though.

473 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:49:35am

re: #469 Sergey Romanov

Daily Caller has nothing to do with Beck.

Daily Caller is Tucker Carlson's outfit, no?

Another one I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw.

And... mornin', Honcos.

474 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:52:33am

re: #472 BigPapa

And HuffPo is a moonbat site. It's OK to post from both, as far as I'm concerned.

475 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:53:32am

re: #473 makeitstop

Daily Caller is Tucker Carlson's outfit, no?

Another one I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw.

I don't "trust" any opinion sites. They're not news sites for a reason.

476 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:58:14am

Morning Lizards.

A wee bit breezy last night, but that got the rain out of the city. Clear and colder today.

What's new in Lizardia beyond the weekly discussion of Huffpo's label?

Which, without looking, I will presume is from NJDHF comparing them to some site after posting a link and getting called on the source.

477 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 6:59:10am

re: #476 oaktree

Morning Lizards.

A wee bit breezy last night, but that got the rain out of the city. Clear and colder today.

What's new in Lizardia beyond the weekly discussion of Huffpo's label?

Which, without looking, I will presume is from NJDHF comparing them to some site after posting a link and getting called on the source.

Congratulations, you're the big winner. The grand prize is a fresh plate of barbecued gamey troll buttocks.

478 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:02:12am

Intrade's betting market is holding 77.7 as the line on Herman Cain endorsing Gingrich. C'mon people--we can get the other 22.2.

479 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:04:14am

re: #461 000G

Not really. I am pretty sure that in most quarters of earth more and more people find employment and wages are rising.

It's just the 1st world that is stagnating or sinking.

Funny how this works, sometimes.

That's not impossible, but I don't think it's that simple either.

Middle-class opportunities are being squeezed in China right now, which has massively invested in higher education but isn't providing a whole lot of graduate-level employment. Not sure what the situation is in Brazil and India, but Russia also looks pretty grim.

Where else? Africa? The Middle East?

480 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:08:30am

Heh.

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

It seems like former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman is flip-flopping, and this time he’s taking the side of science.

According to Talking Points Memo, Huntsman said no one can be sure that climate change is really happening because there is “more debate yet to play out.”

But Huntsman had a change of heart just one day later, saying that he puts his “faith and trust in science.”

“Let me be very clear on this: There is no change,” Huntsman said. “I put my faith and trust in science. So you have 99 of 100 climate scientists who have come out and talked about climate change in certain terms, what is responsible for it. I tend to say this is a discussion that should not be in the political lane but should be in the scientific lane.”

481 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:08:39am

Hmm, a little more fall-out from the supercommittee fail. Extended unemployment benefits drop at the end of the year unless *Congress* extends them further.

[Link: bottomline.msnbc.msn.com...]

I presume this will become another political football kicked around and pontificated about for advantage while real people suffer. This is Federal funds - therefore increasing the debt. But given the states listed is denying a further extension a large electoral risk for the Congress-critters of both parties?

482 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:10:00am

re: #480 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

If a Huntsman takes a crap in the forest, and there's no-one voting for him in the primary, does anyone care?

483 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:10:34am

re: #480 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

Flip flop? More like a slow moving lathe.

Greetings From Los Angeles

484 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:11:06am

re: #479 iossarian

That's not impossible, but I don't think it's that simple either.

Middle-class opportunities are being squeezed in China right now, which has massively invested in higher education but isn't providing a whole lot of graduate-level employment. Not sure what the situation is in Brazil and India, but Russia also looks pretty grim.

Where else? Africa? The Middle East?

Anecdotally the Brazilians I see here in the US are middle class (IT professionals for the most part) and they do a lot of shopping here in the US for consumer electronics to take or ship home.

I guess I could ask how unemployment and such is going in San Paolo.

485 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:11:16am

re: #482 iossarian

If a Huntsman takes a crap in the forest, and there's no-one voting for him in the primary, does anyone care?

I see more and more conservatives thinking "hey, this guy is not that bad", including Eric son of Eric.

486 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:11:26am

re: #480 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

Following the Romney model, I see.

487 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:12:16am

re: #485 Sergey Romanov

I see more and more conservatives thinking "hey, this guy is not that bad", including Eric son of Eric.

lol

"It's a million-to-one shot, but it might just work!"

Must be depressing for them.

488 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:13:10am

re: #487 iossarian

On the other hand, it also shows that he's not that sane ;)

489 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:13:24am

re: #480 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

Too little, too late. Already infected with the giant panderer virus.
(And who can trust the Daily Caller anyways? ;) )

490 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:14:39am

re: #487 iossarian

lol

"It's a million-to-one shot, but it might just work!"

Must be depressing for them.

If a dragon appears and starts dominating New York City I think we can call on Huntsman then as a potential solution.

491 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:15:26am

re: #474 Sergey Romanov

And HuffPo is a moonbat site. It's OK to post from both, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think the issue is merely linking to this site or that, or linking to a moonbat site vs a wingnut site.

It's the fashion of which was the issue, then the equivalence between 'the anti Semitic hate blog HuffPo.' At least that's what my issue was.

A story was posted here from Daily Caller and the that story seemed to be taken at face value (because it involved hippies and unions). Somebody questioned the source, then the false equivalence and the tenuous identification of HuffPo as an 'anti Semitic hate blog.'

In the mean time, while we are discussing the quality (or lack thereof) of a blog, and it's bias, the person who started the tangent does not have to answer to being a fucking dupe who didn't take the original story from the Daily Caller with a grain of salt. That's probably because it involved hippies and unions being mad at each other.

492 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:15:29am

re: #489 oaktree

Someone who can trust HuffPo will trust anything. //

Note that they actually say: "this time he’s taking the side of science" and then link to TPM. ONOZ! THE SCARY WINGNUT SITE!!1! PRECIOUS FLUIDS MUST BE PROTECTED!

493 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:15:39am

re: #488 Sergey Romanov

On the other hand, it also shows that he's not that sane ;)

Exactly. Talk about the poison endorsement.

494 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:15:52am

re: #480 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

re: #175 Varek Raith

Surely you can link to a non wingnut site to back it up?
The Daily Caller has no credibility. Just look at their bullshit posts on AGW.
Wait...

//////////////

495 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:16:17am

re: #494 NJDhockeyfan

See the discussion above.

496 Lidane  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:16:56am

re: #480 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

The comments over there are both hilarious and sad. They're a perfect summary of the current GOP.

497 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:17:44am

re: #495 Sergey Romanov

See the discussion above.

I saw it. Just joking ya know.

;)

498 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:20:24am

re: #496 Lidane

The comments over there are both hilarious and sad. They're a perfect summary of the current GOP.

A lot of willful self-deception going on there.

499 Lidane  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:20:29am

re: #485 Sergey Romanov

I see more and more conservatives thinking "hey, this guy is not that bad", including Eric son of Eric.

They should have thought of that from the beginning instead of latching on to crazy assholes like Bachmann, Perry, Cain, and Gingrich.

Maybe then Huntsman wouldn't have had to endorse a bunch of shitty right-wing ideas like AGW skepticism and the Ryan Plan in order to get their attention, and the GOP wouldn't be facing the possibility of nominating Newt Gingrich for POTUS.

500 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:20:50am

re: #491 BigPapa

I don't believe though that "hey, that's just a wingnut site" is a proper response to a DC link. I don't believe DC has been discredited to the level of, say, Fox News, or any of Breitbart's hatesites. The issue should be a taking of spin at face value, not whether the spin comes from the left or the right.

501 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:24:17am

Eilat bomb mastermind killed in Gaza strike: Israel

Two Gaza militants were killed in an Israeli strike on Thursday, Palestinian medics said, with Israel saying one of them had planned a deadly bombing in Eilat in 2007.

The two men had also been planning another attack on southern Israel by infiltrating from the Sinai peninsula, the Israeli military said in a statement issued shortly after it targeted a car in Gaza City, killing the two men and injuring four others, medics said.

The military said it had targeted Issam al-Batsh, a senior member of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed off-shoot of the Fatah movement, "as well as an additional terrorist."

"These terrorists were both affiliated with a terrorist squad that intended to execute a terrorist attack against Israeli civilians and Israeli Defence Forces soldiers via the western border," the statement said.

Earlier this week, Israeli security sources said troops were on very high alert along the Egyptian border over fears a cell of gunmen had crossed into southern Israel.

502 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:24:24am

Dear Santa,

I think I have been a good boy all year. This is all I want for Christmas.

All my love,

NJDhockeyfan

503 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:25:30am

morning alll!

How is it in your world today?

504 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:25:49am

re: #500 Sergey Romanov

I don't believe though that "hey, that's just a wingnut site" is a proper response to a DC link. I don't believe DC has been discredited to the level of, say, Fox News, or any of Breitbart's hatesites.

Is DailyCaller an AGW-denying site? If so, they absolutely are equivalent to the other garbage sites you mention here.

505 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:25:52am

re: #503 ggt

Cold.

506 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:26:09am

[Link: usnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

Here's an potential initiative front-loaded for Epic Fail. You'd think someone could step back and realize that the negative association of the name is due to the organization's stance on various issues. Shedding the name for another will not shed the association since the stances will go with the organization and quickly become associated with a new name - assuming they go there.

And you'll also get splinter groups resistent to changing the name, costs in making the decision, and costs in implementing the change (like new letterhead.) Lose-lose all the way down.

507 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:26:18am

re: #504 publicityStunted

No more than HuffPo is a medicine-denying site.

509 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:30:57am

re: #500 Sergey Romanov

I don't believe though that "hey, that's just a wingnut site" is a proper response to a DC link. I don't believe DC has been discredited to the level of, say, Fox News, or any of Breitbart's hatesites. The issue should be a taking of spin at face value, not whether the spin comes from the left or the right.

I agree with your point. But commenting that 'it's a wingnut site' is relevant because the story fits a recurring meme propagated by wingnut sites. Although DC may not be as bad as The Usual Suspects, it is relevant.

But yeah, the 'proper' response would be to scold NJD for trolling wingnut memes.

510 Lidane  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:30:58am

Could someone please remind the frothy mixture about the definition of "covert"?

Also, how was announcing the confirmed death of OBL a bad thing? He seems to imply that President Obama made a mistake in saying anything about it. WTF.

511 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:31:53am

Is this how you carry a "wounded baby"? In the same arm where you're holding your cell phone?

512 darthstar  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:36:24am

re: #511 Alouette

Is this how you carry a "wounded baby"? In the same arm where you're holding your cell phone?

The look on his face indicates he's probably not too worried about being mocked for how he holds the child.

513 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:37:04am

re: #511 Alouette

Why the scare quotes?

514 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:37:35am

re: #511 Alouette

Is this how you carry a "wounded baby"? In the same arm where you're holding your cell phone?

ALL PALESTINIANS ARE UNCARING TERRORIST SYMPATHIZERS WHO USE INFANTS AS PROPS IN THEIR SUPPORT FOR EVIL

515 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:39:24am

Anonymous takes credit for LAPD info leak

A member of a hacking group affiliated with international hacking group Anonymous told a radio station today that the group was responsible for posting the personal information of more than two dozen members of the Los Angeles Police Department's command staff.

The hacker group @CabinCr3w sent out a Twitter message Monday that provided information on officers' backgrounds, including home addresses, campaign contributions, property records, and in some cases names of their children.

516 Lidane  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:39:36am

Erick, Son of Erick has made his 2012 endorsement. Or not:

[Link: www.redstate.com...]

Yesterday I posted my confession about supporting Gingrich. Some people viewed it as a non-endorsement endorsement of Gingrich. Others viewed it as a rejection of Gingrich. Others viewed it as an endorsement of Perry or Huntsman. It was none of the above. I suspect I was too obtuse in that while trying clearly to express my concerns and publicly wrestle with getting my head around whether or not I could support Gingrich.

Over the course of the past few months, people have accused me of supporting Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, Huntsman, Pawlenty, Perry, and believe it or not, even Mitt Romney.

In truth, I support none of the above and as I am constantly called on these days to make an endorsement of one of the candidates, I suppose we have now reached the time for me to explain why I have no plans to endorse anyone.

517 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:39:36am

re: #479 iossarian

"Middle class" and its erosion is something very different from large populations finding gainful employment for the first time ever and very measly wages rising.

Brazil is a powerhouse, btw (budget surplus, strong growth, low unemployment), generally Latin America is doing pretty good. India is struggling, but then again: it has almost ten times the population as Brazil.

518 darthstar  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:40:21am

Okay...slept in this morning...gotta run the dogs. Catch you all in a few hours.

520 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:40:38am

I'm so tired of this. OK, I shouldn't have done the sarcasm thing, and I apologize for that.

But the fact is, whatever the rights or wrongs of the insanely complicated situation in the Middle East, there are a boatload of people who just want to live their lives, and then a rocket lands on a car and their kid has to go to hospital, and they have to call their wife to tell them that.

And they don't deserve to then be slammed for holding the phone and the baby in the same hand when they get to the hospital.

A little human sympathy is in order.

521 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:41:15am

re: #513 Sergey Romanov

Why the scare quotes?

If that baby was really injured do you think it would be carried like that?

522 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:41:22am
523 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:42:02am

re: #513 Sergey Romanov

Why the scare quotes?

Because the baby probably isn't wounded. It's creative captioning.

524 darthstar  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:42:33am

re: #519 Alouette

"Wounded" person in a burqa being wheeled on a gurney.

We get that you hate Palestinians. Mocking peple wounded in military strikes though is just mean. Its okay to hate, but hate quietly.

525 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:42:49am

re: #522 kirkspencer

Why the quotes?

What are they doing to stabilize this person? Do you see a neck brace? First aid kit?

526 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:44:13am

re: #524 darthstar

We get that you hate Palestinians. Mocking peple wounded in military strikes though is just mean. Its okay to hate, but hate quietly.

I hate biased media reporting and staged photo ops. Just tip up the gurney and let the wounded victim slide head-first on to the ambulance floor is proper treatment?

527 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:44:32am

re: #521 Alouette

If that baby was really injured do you think it would be carried like that?

Also they aren't listing the name on the photographer. Almost all Getty images, no AP, no Reuters. They learned their lesson about using Palestinian stringers.

528 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:45:01am

re: #521 Alouette

If that baby was really injured do you think it would be carried like that?

Having seen what happens at multiple car wreck, yes. I've seen similar, and worse. What's the man doing with his other hand, the one you can't see? Where's he headed? What's he moving from?

It might not be a wounded child - it might indeed be a propaganda piece. But there is no evidence other than your sense of how such should be treated

529 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:45:37am

re: #521 Alouette

If that baby was really injured do you think it would be carried like that?

What I think is you are making conclusions from nothing in this case.

530 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:46:11am

The news reports regarding that strike, including the Daylife captions, all claim that two were killed (including the Eilat bombing terrorist), and two were injured. That would suggest that the other two people injured was this woman and child.

Given the way that the Palestinian media/propagandists exaggerate and make up stuff out of whole cloth to inflate body counts, it is a good idea to take the captions with a grain of salt.

Is it possible that the woman and child were injured in the airstrike? Yes.

Is it also possible that they weren't injured and are being carted around for photo purposes? Also yes - based on prior history of Palestinians in Gaza doing just that.

531 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:46:29am

re: #523 Killgore Trout

Because the baby probably isn't wounded. It's creative captioning.

Prove it.

532 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:47:21am

Am I missing something? I don't see any wounded babies in that picture. Where is it at?

533 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:47:37am

re: #526 Alouette

I hate biased media reporting and staged photo ops.

After the Lebanon summer war, with all the fauxtography, Reuters scandals etc., deep suspicion is warranted. I don't have links from here at the time handy, but some might be in order.

534 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:47:39am

re: #530 lawhawk

The news reports regarding that strike, including the Daylife captions, all claim that two were killed (including the Eilat bombing terrorist), and two were injured. That would suggest that the other two people injured was this woman and child.

Given the way that the Palestinian media/propagandists exaggerate and make up stuff out of whole cloth to inflate body counts, it is a good idea to take the captions with a grain of salt.

Is it possible that the woman and child were injured in the airstrike? Yes.

Is it also possible that they weren't injured and are being carted around for photo purposes? Also yes - based on prior history of Palestinians in Gaza doing just that.

[Link: news.daylife.com...]
If there were injuries to the woman and child they appear to be very minor.

535 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:47:58am

It's all part of the fun process of dehumanizing one's enemies!

536 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:48:54am

If that's staged propaganda, it's pretty weak staged propaganda.

537 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:49:00am

re: #535 iossarian

It's all part of the fun process of dehumanizing one's enemies!

Hey that's not what's up here. Way too harsh on this crowd.

538 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:49:35am

BTW, among the other airstrikes, the targets included Hamas terrorists and those with the Fatah spinoff, the al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade. And Israel has been warning of impending attacks by terrorists from Gaza via Sinai for the past couple of weeks - and the latest airstrikes were meant to eliminate that threat.

The IDF said the cell that was targeted was planning to launch an attack against Israel from Egypt. One of the operatives. Sobhi Ismail Batash, a resident of Gaza City, was described as a senior operative in the al Aksa Martys Brigades and was involved in planning the attack. The IDF said that the terrorists were supposed to cross from Gaza in to Sinai, and then into Israel.

Over the past week the IDF has been on high alert along the border with Egypt amid concern that terrorists were plotting an attack similar to the one in August when Palestinian and Egyptian terrorists crossed into Israel and killed eight Israelis.

539 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:51:08am

re: #535 iossarian

During the 8.8.8 war Russian "patriotic" blogs were abuzz with claims of "photo staging". Internet warriors "conclusively proved" that the photos of bodies of Georgians "allegedly" killed by Russian bombs in Gori were staged. "The body, it moved! Just look at it from this perspective, you'll see!".

540 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:51:50am

re: #531 Sergey Romanov

It would be kind of difficult to get into Gaza at the moment and try to get the facts from a hospital that is controlled by Hamas to ascertain whether there were indeed any injuries to those claimed to have been injured.

It's not like you can get independent confirmation on these casualty reports.

541 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:52:22am

Does Charles still have the "magically appearing ambulance" videos linked anywhere. I forget what they were called.

542 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:54:03am

Kilgore, ya maybe got any good LGF links handy from the summer war? Mine went with the old computer.

543 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:54:20am

re: #516 Lidane

Erick, Son of Erick has made his 2012 endorsement. Or not:

[Link: www.redstate.com...]

Endorsing none of the GOP means that he is endorsing Obama by default?
///

544 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:54:22am

re: #525 Alouette

What are they doing to stabilize this person? Do you see a neck brace? First aid kit?

The lady across the street from me collapsed yesterday. I watched as the ambulance got here and the team loaded her. No neck brace. No first aid kit on the bed. No straps, either -- they waited till she was in and used the internal lock straps instead. (Long term condition -- we get to see the ambulance a couple of times a month, and her trips to the hospital depend on what her heart and blood pressure readings are at the incident. She's fine, according to her husband, and will be home later today.)

So your point holds no water.

545 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:55:01am

re: #539 Sergey Romanov

(I should have added that since the photos were by Reuters, Reuters was blamed for faking them. Of course.)

546 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:55:05am

re: #542 Rightwingconspirator

Kilgore, ya maybe got any good LGF links handy from the summer war? Mine went with the old computer.

How times have changed

When I was young, we had to use "the dog ate my homework"!!!!

547 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:55:16am

re: #541 ggt

Does Charles still have the "magically appearing ambulance" videos linked anywhere. I forget what they were called.

The ones where terrorists fully armed with RPGs & weapons are pictured getting out of the back?

548 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:55:38am

re: #510 Lidane

Could someone please remind the frothy mixture about the definition of "covert"?

[Video]Also, how was announcing the confirmed death of OBL a bad thing? He seems to imply that President Obama made a mistake in saying anything about it. WTF.

What. A. Freaking. Moron.

Also, that man looks absolutely uncomfortable in his own skin every time I see him on video. It's almost as if he hates who he is but keeps doing it anyway.

549 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:00:22am

re: #542 Rightwingconspirator

Kilgore, ya maybe got any good LGF links handy from the summer war? Mine went with the old computer.

I don't think it will make any difference. The demographics have changed significantly around here that those old links won't make any difference and will just result in a lot of hurt feelings.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and annoys the pig.

550 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:00:44am

re: #541 ggt

Does Charles still have the "magically appearing ambulance" videos linked anywhere. I forget what they were called.

Found the video...

Hamas use UN ambulance to smuggle terrorists in Gaza

551 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:01:20am

re: #547 NJDhockeyfan

The ones where terrorists fully armed with RPGs & weapons are pictured getting out of the back?

No, they were obviously staged when you took the cropping away. There was one with a man and a little boy crouched by a brick wall, when the crops were taken away, you saw the staging.

552 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:02:06am

re: #520 iossarian

I'm so tired of this. OK, I shouldn't have done the sarcasm thing, and I apologize for that.

But the fact is, whatever the rights or wrongs of the insanely complicated situation in the Middle East, there are a boatload of people who just want to live their lives, and then a rocket lands on a car and their kid has to go to hospital, and they have to call their wife to tell them that.

And they don't deserve to then be slammed for holding the phone and the baby in the same hand when they get to the hospital.

A little human sympathy is in order.

I do not see any terror, fear, or even deep concern on the man's face as he hold his infant casually, the way you would hold a sweater you aren't wearing, draped over his arm while thumbing his cell phone. What he is doing with his right arm, which you can't see in the photo, can't be determined, but he is standing in a loose, relaxed position. Maybe he is holding a loaded gun? Or his car keys? Or a water bottle? Or nothing at all?

You are deriving a narrative from the photo that is not apparent.

553 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:02:54am
554 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:03:11am

re: #544 kirkspencer

The lady across the street from me collapsed yesterday. I watched as the ambulance got here and the team loaded her. No neck brace. No first aid kit on the bed. No straps, either -- they waited till she was in and used the internal lock straps instead. (, aLong term condition -- we get to see the ambulance a couple of times a monthnd her trips to the hospital depend on what her heart and blood pressure readings are at the incident. She's fine, according to her husband, and will be home later today.)

So your point holds no water.

And your anecdote doesn't provide any insight either.
WHY? Because obviously the paramedics are familiar with this lady (Long term condition -- we get to see the ambulance a couple of times a month and her trips to the hospital depend on what her heart and blood pressure readings are at the incident.) (( your words))

OTOH ,,, paramedics arriving on a scene where they have no clue as to what the injuries are , totally different

555 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:04:41am

re: #549 Killgore Trout

The demographics have changed significantly around here

Really?
I hadn't noticed!

556 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:05:42am

re: #552 Alouette

I do not see any terror, fear, or even deep concern on the man's face as he hold his infant casually, the way you would hold a sweater you aren't wearing, draped over his arm while thumbing his cell phone. What he is doing with his right arm, which you can't see in the photo, can't be determined, but he is standing in a loose, relaxed position. Maybe he is holding a loaded gun? Or his car keys? Or a water bottle? Or nothing at all?

You are deriving a narrative from the photo that is not apparent.

Loose and relaxed? His chest is forward of his center of gravity. There's motion blur on everything but the man. Left leg is back, right shoulder and arm is back. Inference from the evidence is he's running.

557 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:06:11am

re: #554 sattv4u2

It's pretty simple though: life is often more complex than simple schemes.

558 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:08:14am

re: #556 kirkspencer

Loose and relaxed? His chest is forward of his center of gravity. There's motion blur on everything but the man. Left leg is back, right shoulder and arm is back. Inference from the evidence is he's running.

If one of my babies was hurt, and I was running with it in my arms to the hospital, I would be holding it close to my chest with both arms, not casually flung across one arm while was also holding my cell phone.

Do you have any children? Ever held a baby?

559 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:09:07am

re: #549 Killgore Trout

The demographics have changed significantly around here that those old links won't make any difference and will just result in a lot of hurt feelings.

Yes, all those nice "old" folks now hang out in other places.

560 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:11:16am

re: #554 sattv4u2

And your anecdote doesn't provide any insight either.
WHY? Because obviously the paramedics are familiar with this lady (Long term condition -- we get to see the ambulance a couple of times a month and her trips to the hospital depend on what her heart and blood pressure readings are at the incident.) (( your words))

OTOH ,,, paramedics arriving on a scene where they have no clue as to what the injuries are , totally different

We see a person on a gurney being loaded into an ambulance, allegedly taken at the site of an explosion. You say it's fake because they're not following US standards. I say it's not the US, that even in the US such standards are not always upheld if the situation justifies. You say my example of the situation being justified can't be exactly the same situation for this case - never mind that I can browse the internet and find other examples of people being loaded into ambulances with neither restraints nor kits exhibited.

We see a person being loaded without restraints, without medical equipment in evidence. I know, both from personal observation and evidence of other pictures, that this happens in real life. You and Aloutte see it as proof these are fake.

You might be right, but you might be wrong, and the pictures as they stand are insufficient to prove either case.

561 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:13:17am

re: #551 ggt

No, they were obviously staged when you took the cropping away. There was one with a man and a little boy crouched by a brick wall, when the crops were taken away, you saw the staging.

I can't find that one but remember this classic?

QASIM Chaalan thought he had died in the burning haze of the missile strike.

But it gradually dawned on him that he was still there, inside the ambulance. He still felt his body and, opening his eyes, could still see.

Chaalan and the other medics were lucky: they survived a direct hit from an Israeli missile. One of the dazed medics fumbled slowly for the radio and began: "We have an accident …"

He failed to finish the sentence because a second missile smashed into the ambulance behind them.

Check out the picture. The 'Israeli missile' went through that hole in the roof and amazingly the ambulance suffered minor damage!

562 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:13:41am

re: #560 kirkspencer

Mind you, Satty would have a stroke if he saw some relevant Russian photos. I mean, if it's not done the proper way, it hasn't been done at all.

563 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:14:16am

re: #560 kirkspencer

You say it's fake because they're not following US standards.

I didn't say anything of the sort

the pictures as they stand are insufficient to prove either case.

100% agreed, yet you insist that they are an accurate representation of one

564 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:14:49am

re: #562 Sergey Romanov

Mind you, Satty would have a stroke if he saw some relevant Russian photos. I mean, if it's not done the proper way, it hasn't been done at all.

You have not clue #1 of what I have seen in my lifetime

565 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:16:23am

re: #558 Alouette

If one of my babies was hurt, and I was running with it in my arms to the hospital, I would be holding it close to my chest with both arms, not casually flung across one arm while was also holding my cell phone.

Do you have any children? Ever held a baby?

Yes, I have children. Yes, I've held a baby. I've also been a lifeguard, and on rescue teams. I have seen exactly this carry. It's wrong for proper support, but I've seen it.

Others do things differently from how you would do things. It happens.

Oh - a related but slightly digressive point. Why do you keep saying it's "his" baby? How do you know he isn't a "good sam" running an anonymous child to the paramedics?

566 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:17:08am

re: #563 sattv4u2

You say it's fake because they're not following US standards.

I didn't say anything of the sort

the pictures as they stand are insufficient to prove either case.

100% agreed, yet you insist that they are an accurate representation of one

No, I said that those claiming it was a fake might be wrong.

567 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:18:29am

re: #566 kirkspencer

No, I said that those claiming it was a fake might be wrong.

No ,, you said (in response to me)

"YOU say it's fake ,,,," followed by "You and Aloutte see it as proof these are fake."

568 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:19:51am

I think the one's I'm remember are in this bunch.

I gotta go.

The point being that we have seen enough faux news from the Palestinians to be very skeptical. That does not mean anyone HATES the Palestinians.

Have a great day all.

569 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:20:13am

re: #566 kirkspencer

No, I said that those claiming it was a fake might be wrong.

I am not claiming that it's a fake, I am claiming that the caption is inaccurate. The baby does not look injured, and the man does not look too concerned about it. The photo shows a man carrying an infant in a casual way and his primary attention is on his cell phone.

570 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:24:11am

re: #569 Alouette

I am not claiming that it's a fake, I am claiming that the caption is inaccurate. The baby does not look injured, and the man does not look too concerned about it. The photo shows a man carrying an infant in a casual way and his primary attention is on his cell phone.

It's a fun life in Gaza!

Image: gwh101039.jpg

571 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:25:05am

re: #570 iossarian

It's a fun life in Gaza!

Image: gwh101039.jpg

Where did you find that picture of a wounded baby?

572 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:25:13am

Wow, how utterly fucked up & inhumane some of these comments are. If everything else was exactly the same, but the photos of the wounded were of any people besides Palestinians, then the reactions would be totally different.

The demographics obviously haven't changed that much.

You haters can keep your disgusting hatred. Choke on it. I'm done.

Yes, this is a flounce. Ding away, I'm not sticking around to keep count or read sarcastic responses.

573 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:25:22am

Orlando Bloom, terrorist sympathizer:

Image: orlando-bloom-ergo-baby.jpg

574 blueraven  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:28:05am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

Wow, how utterly fucked up & inhumane some of these comments are. If everything else was exactly the same, but the photos of the wounded were of any people besides Palestinians, then the reactions would be totally different.

The demographics obviously haven't changed that much.

You haters can keep your disgusting hatred. Choke on it. I'm done.

Yes, this is a flounce. Ding away, I'm not sticking around to keep count or read sarcastic responses.

(((CL)))

I am so sorry. I hope you reconsider, but I understand.

575 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:28:06am

re: #570 iossarian

It's a fun life in Gaza!

Image: gwh101039.jpg

In Israel too

[Link: www.imemc.org...]

576 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:28:43am

re: #537 Rightwingconspirator

Hey that's not what's up here. Way too harsh on this crowd.

Didn't respond to this at the time, but there is a clear pattern of undermining anything that might elicit sympathy for the Palestinians. If that's not a process of dehumanizing, I don't know what is.

577 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:28:49am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

Wow, how utterly fucked up & inhumane some of these comments are. If everything else was exactly the same, but the photos of the wounded were of any people besides Palestinians, then the reactions would be totally different.

The demographics obviously haven't changed that much.

You haters can keep your disgusting hatred. Choke on it. I'm done.

Yes, this is a flounce. Ding away, I'm not sticking around to keep count or read sarcastic responses.

Please don't go, CL. You would be missed around here.

578 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:30:17am

re: #575 sattv4u2

Yup, bad stuff going on there. Which is why it's important not to demonize the people who live there and have to cope with it all the time.

579 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:32:21am

I'm awaiting comment until Huffpo, Daily Caller, DailyKos, FreeRepublic, (insert favored blog site here), add their spin on this event.
///

And then maybe I'll wait a bit longer to allow the ensuing label fight about how moonbat/wingnut the various sites are about their spin on the event dies down as well.
///

580 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:34:31am

re: #578 iossarian

Yup, bad stuff going on there. Which is why it's important not to demonize the people who live there and have to cope with it all the time.

And (as I stated to Kirk) I did that where?? I stated the photo was fake ,, where??

581 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:35:16am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

Don't be rash. I tried to tell Gus the same thing. Hang in there. The demographics of LGF are shifting in your favor. Just wait it out.

582 blueraven  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:35:27am

There really was no need for all of this.

War is hell and collateral damage sucks!
If we all cant be a little more sympathetic to both sides when innocents are injured or killed, then I dont know what that says about us.

583 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:36:26am

...and this is why I said bringing up old lgf links of Palestinians staging fake photo opportunities was a bad idea.

584 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:36:44am

re: #568 ggt

I think the one's I'm remember are in this bunch.

I gotta go.

The point being that we have seen enough faux news from the Palestinians to take be very skeptical. That does not mean anyone HATES the Palestinians.

Have a great day all.

It's hardly an exception. In 2000 German journalist Franz Hoefling (N-24) presented a video tape, which he had allegedly shot himself, of Russian soldiers burying bodies of Chechens in a mass grave with the help of a bulldozer. He presented the tape as evidence of mass murder of Chechen "freedom fighters" after cruel torture. Later Hoefling confessed he didn't shoot the tape and rather bought it from a Russian journalist Oleg Blotsky (the latter explained that these were actually bodies of Chechen guerillas who died in battle), after which N-24 promptly fired Hoefling.

What's my point? It's this: each case is separate. It's not wise to simply lump together people as "Palestinians" or "pro-Chechen Westerners" in order to tie all such old stories to them to automatically discount whatever evidence they might provide. It might be a factor, but only one of many.

585 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:37:41am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

CL, don't go please.

586 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:39:55am

re: #567 sattv4u2

No ,, you said (in response to me)

"YOU say it's fake ,,," followed by "You and Aloutte see it as proof these are fake."

True, I did. I inferred such by your counter-responses to my challenges of Alouette's position. If you were digressing and ignoring the rest of the discussions, treating my post in vacuum, I apologize for lumping you together.

587 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:40:32am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

Wow, how utterly fucked up & inhumane some of these comments are. If everything else was exactly the same, but the photos of the wounded were of any people besides Palestinians, then the reactions would be totally different.

The demographics obviously haven't changed that much.

You haters can keep your disgusting hatred. Choke on it. I'm done.

Yes, this is a flounce. Ding away, I'm not sticking around to keep count or read sarcastic responses.

{{CL}}

I've considered my posting here many times when this has come up in the past, but i've gone for a while and it quietens down again.

Every time it's taken me a while longer to come back.

I completely understand and sympathise.

588 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:41:54am

I started this by posting a photo that Getty Images claimed was a wounded baby, and stating that the baby did not look injured and the person holding it did not look too concerned.

Does this make me an evil hater and a bad person?

589 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:42:32am

re: #581 Killgore Trout

The demographics of LGF are shifting in your favor. Just wait it out.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

590 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:42:33am

Checking back in later.

591 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:44:12am

re: #588 Alouette

I started this by posting a photo that Getty Images claimed was a wounded baby, and stating that the baby did not look injured and the person holding it did not look too concerned.

Does this make me an evil hater and a bad person?

Not necessarily. It rather depends on why you felt the need to dismiss the claim that the baby is wounded (since it's not really possible to tell, conclusively, from the photo).

592 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:45:25am

re: #588 Alouette

I started this by posting a photo that Getty Images claimed was a wounded baby, and stating that the baby did not look injured and the person holding it did not look too concerned.

Does this make me an evil hater and a bad person?

Sad that you even have to ask!

"Hating" people that do things that cause innocents to be harmed ,,, you bad person you!!!!

593 blueraven  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:45:42am

re: #588 Alouette

I started this by posting a photo that Getty Images claimed was a wounded baby, and stating that the baby did not look injured and the person holding it did not look too concerned.

Does this make me an evil hater and a bad person?

If it had been an Israeli baby, would you have questioned the photo?

And no, I dont think you are a hater. But I do think you might have a bias. Perhaps with good reason to be suspicious. Maybe it would have been best to wait and see.

594 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:45:45am

re: #581 Killgore Trout

Don't be rash. I tried to tell Gus the same thing. Hang in there. The demographics of LGF are shifting in your favor. Just wait it out.

This.

Read LGF posts from five or more years ago. Notice how many of the class of 2004 are gone, and why.

I don't think LGF will ever go as far left as, say, DailyKos, but the residual automatic hatred of certain groups is declining.

(actually, it bothers me that it's become common to tar all Republicans for the sins of the extremists. It's the same problem, different population.)

595 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:46:32am

re: #580 sattv4u2

And (as I stated to Kirk) I did that where?? I stated the photo was fake ,, where??

I didn't say that you did. Other people are though.

596 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:47:22am

re: #593 blueraven

If it had been an Israeli baby, would you have questioned the photo?

And no, I dont think you are a hater. But I do think you might have a bias. Perhaps with good reason to be suspicious. Maybe it would have been best to wait and see.

I would have questioned that photo if the caption had been anything other than "A man drapes an infant across his arm while clutching his cell phone."

597 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:48:20am

re: #586 kirkspencer

True, I did. I inferred such by your counter-responses to my challenges of Alouette's position. If you were digressing and ignoring the rest of the discussions, treating my post in vacuum, I apologize for lumping you together.

You 'inferred" nothing

You flat out stated ""You and Aloutte see it as proof these are fake."


I have no problem with you making a claim about me, right or wrong

I will correct when wrong, however

Own it!

598 iossarian  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:48:59am

Got to go.

599 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:49:20am

Note that deliberate miscaptioning of photos is a form of fakery. So if the photo was captioned in such a way to elicit a specific reaction, and the baby is not injured in any way, then it's a fake. On the other hand, there just isn't evidence at present that it's fake.

600 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:49:37am

re: #595 iossarian

I didn't say that you did. Other people are though.

I was responding to your statement of why it's important not to demonize the people who live there

I never demonized anyone

601 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:51:25am

re: #594 kirkspencer

This.

Read LGF posts from five or more years ago. Notice how many of the class of 2004 are gone, and why.

I don't think LGF will ever go as far left as, say, DailyKos, but the residual automatic hatred of certain groups is declining.

(actually, it bothers me that it's become common to tar all Republicans for the sins of the extremists. It's the same problem, different population.)

I certainly hadn't noticed for far to the left LGF had gone until the OWS thing. It's not my cup of tea but I think it's important to let the changes happen, old people will leave, new people will come in. It's the way it's always been.

602 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:51:38am

Apparently, debates are settled because of the weight of "demographics" and not because of the actual merit of the presented arguments. It's just a swing of the pendulum on the magical balance fairyland, not a progression of ideas and insight. Substance doesn't really matter. I had no idea that this is how LGF had changed over the years.

/

603 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:52:12am

re: #600 sattv4u2

I never demonized anyone

Only an evil person would say that.
/

604 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:52:17am

re: #597 sattv4u2

You 'inferred" nothing

You flat out stated ""You and Aloutte see it as proof these are fake."

I have no problem with you making a claim about me, right or wrong

I will correct when wrong, however

Own it!

ummm, you do know what infer means, don't you?

It means I interpreted your position from your other words and actions. Because I inferred it, I made my claim. I do own it.

Now here's the counterpoint, which you have not done. Do you think they're fake, or is it - as I've said multiple time - that there's not enough there to say either way?

605 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:53:41am

re: #603 Killgore Trout

Only an evil person would say that.
/

I need a mirror

I think my horns need adjustment!!

Image: 60773.JPG

606 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:54:40am

Wish OhCrap was here. Would like to discuss race-mixing, communism, and Buchanan's white fright with her.

607 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:55:12am

re: #604 kirkspencer

ummm, you do know what infer means, don't you?

It means I interpreted your position from your other words and actions. Because I inferred it, I made my claim. I do own it.

Now here's the counterpoint, which you have not done. Do you think they're fake, or is it - as I've said multiple time - that there's not enough there to say either way?

I am presenting my opinion, based on my experience of raising 9 children, that one does not carry an injured child one-handed, with a phone in the same hand. Therefore I suggested that the photo was miscaptioned.

608 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:55:52am

Also, I suspect that the photo might have been miscaptioned, but not deliberately. Suppose the baby is not wounded in the sense that any shrapnel has pierced its skin. Suppose it was rather injured by the blast itself. It's not "wounded" in English, as far as I understand the language, but it might be equally dangerous.

609 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:57:05am

re: #604 kirkspencer

Do you think they're fake, or is it - as I've said multiple time - that there's not enough there to say either way?

What part of "100% agree" to your the pictures as they stand are insufficient to prove either case. didn't you understand from my #563??

610 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:57:32am

re: #607 Alouette

Maybe this guy has never handled a baby, for all we know. You might have a better point if that was his mother.

611 blueraven  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:59:12am

re: #596 Alouette

I would have questioned that photo if the caption had been anything other than "A man drapes an infant across his arm while clutching his cell phone."

OK. My reaction was more along the lines of. What is wrong with that fucker carrying an injured baby like that?

612 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 8:59:21am

re: #610 Sergey Romanov

Maybe this guy has never handled a baby, for all we know. You might have a better point if that was his mother.

People who have never handled a baby tend to be over-careful, if anything.

I have frequently held a crying baby in that position, when it was just being cranky.

613 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:01:07am

I hope that CuriousLurker decides to come back. I will send her a personal apology if that is what it takes.

614 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:01:19am

re: #608 Sergey Romanov

It's possible the baby was not injured from shrapnel, but from the blast - causing internal damage that isn't normally visible or shock. It's possible that the kid and the woman were innocent bystanders to the strike against the terrorists in the car (and a likely presumption at that) given that if they were in the car, they would likely have suffered the same fate - death.

Still no way to know whether the caption is accurate, or whether this child was even injured in this particular incident. All we have to go on is captions provided by stringers or amended by editors and may not indicate the accurate assessment of the situation.

615 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:01:42am

re: #612 Alouette

Tend to, but not in all situations. All we have is one snapshot in an uncertain moment. He may be hurrying to do many things at once, failing that, being stressed etc.

616 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:05:53am

re: #614 lawhawk

You know, when there were photos of people allegedly passing out sweets after the Fogel family murder, people hurried to believe those captions, even if there was no way to know if they were accurate, not taken out of context etc. All I want is some consistency.

617 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:07:02am

re: #609 sattv4u2

Do you think they're fake, or is it - as I've said multiple time - that there's not enough there to say either way?

What part of "100% agree" to your the pictures as they stand are insufficient to prove either case. didn't you understand from my #563??

The qualifying clause that misrepresented MY position. "100% agreed, yet you insist that they are an accurate representation of one"

618 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:09:23am

re: #616 Sergey Romanov

Similar story with the issue of the celebration of the WTC attack in an area in Palestine. Wikipedia states:

Annette Krüger Spitta of the ARD's (German public broadcasting) TV magazine Panorama states that footage not aired shows that the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem is quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering (Nawal Abdel Fatah) stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward.

Also, Alouette has acted like this in the past.

619 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:10:11am

re: #616 Sergey Romanov

You know, when there were photos of people allegedly passing out sweets after the Fogel family murder, people hurried to believe those captions, even if there was no way to know if they were accurate, not taken out of context etc. All I want is some consistency.

As I recall, there was only one photo of one person passing a plate of sweets to somebody in a car, no mass dancing in the streets.

620 Mocking Jay  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:10:25am

Holee shit

Report: Air Force Dumped Ashes Of At Least 274 Troops In VA Landfill

The Air Force reportedly dumped the ashes of at least 274 U.S. troops in a landfill in Virginia before it ended the practice three years ago, according to records obtained by the Washington Post.

Documents obtained by the Post indicate that 976 “fragments” from 274 troops were cremated and incinerated by the Dover Air Force Base mortuary, and then disposed of in a Virginia landfill between 2004 and 2008. In June, 2008, Dover changed its policy and now buries cremated remains in urns at sea.

621 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:11:33am

re: #620 JasonA

Somebody is getting canned.

622 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:15:45am

re: #618 ProLifeLiberal

There was a long thread with KT participating about this Wikipedia excerpt, which I had posted. There actually were celebrations, although the story with that particular woman seems fishy.

623 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:16:14am

re: #620 JasonA

Add to that the mess at Arlington with mislabeled cemetery plots and you've got a mortuary service that needs a serious overhaul - and some career soldiers at those facilities getting the boot (or charged for improper handling of remains).

624 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:18:05am

re: #619 Alouette

As I recall, there was only one photo of one person passing a plate of sweets to somebody in a car, no mass dancing in the streets.

Yes, some eclair-like sweets in cars, etc. - the problem is that we don't know what exactly was said to the people who accepted them.

625 Mocking Jay  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:18:20am

re: #623 lawhawk

Add to that the mess at Arlington with mislabeled cemetery plots and you've got a mortuary service that needs a serious overhaul - and some career soldiers at those facilities getting the boot (or charged for improper handling of remains).

I'm just waiting to hear how this activity from '04 to '08 was all Obama's fault.

626 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:19:33am

re: #624 Sergey Romanov

Yes, some eclair-like sweets in cars, etc. - the problem is that we don't know what exactly was said to the people who accepted them.

They could have said something like, "This order goes to Amir's house for his daughter's birthday party!" or something like that.

627 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:21:44am

re: #621 ProLifeLiberal

Somebody is getting canned.

Ended in June of 2008. The right "somebody" may already be retired.

628 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:21:47am

re: #626 Alouette

They could have said something like, "This order goes to Amir's house for his daughter's birthday party!" or something like that.

I just looked up the picture, it was only one person.

629 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:23:08am

Obama responds to charges that he's an 'appeaser'

Ask Osama bin Laden and the 22 out of 30 top Al-Qaeda leaders who have been taken off the field whether I engage in appeasement… or whoever’s left out there.

Heh. Spin that, Republicans.

630 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:23:17am

Former NJ Gov. Corzine, and later head of MF Global, has testified before Congress, and can't recall where the nearly $1.2 billion (range of $600 million to more than $1.2 billion has been given) in client funds went.

Curiously, he didn't take the 5th, but he also couldn't provide the one answer that everyone wants to know about - where's the money.

Right now, he's looking at potential civil and criminal actions against him and other MF Global officials for the missing funds.

631 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:25:39am

re: #629 makeitstop

Drudge is, that arshole

(drudge of course!)

632 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:26:59am

re: #629 makeitstop

Definitely not an appeaser if you go by the ongoing UAV campaign against AQ worldwide. Heck, you can't even claim he's an appeaser if he stands by the call to withdraw US forces from Iraq by the end of the year - a date set by the Bush Administration but was subject to further negotiation between US and Iraq's government to continue allowing US forces to remain in country subject to further conditions (those talks ended and the US refused to allow US forces to be subject to liability). Can't claim he's an appeaser when he's surged troops in Afghanistan either.

So - in sum - not an appeaser.
I rate those claims as "Pants on Fire".

633 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:30:06am

Steampunk just died.

Justin Bieber made a steampunk video. A Christmas steampunk video.

634 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:30:42am

re: #633 EmmmieG

Steampunk just died.

Justin Bieber made a steampunk video. A Christmas steampunk video.

Oh, dear.

635 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:31:13am

re: #633 EmmmieG

Steampunk just died.

Justin Bieber made a steampunk video. A Christmas steampunk video.

Now THAT is a war crime.

636 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:32:59am

re: #633 EmmmieG

Steampunk just died.

Justin Bieber made a steampunk video. A Christmas steampunk video.

And apparently he flubbed the lyrics when making a live appearance too.

637 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:35:38am

Discuss Bieber more, and I will flounce too.

638 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:36:09am

re: #633 EmmmieG
But he does get to go home to Selena
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

639 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:36:22am

re: #637 Sergey Romanov

Discuss Bieber more, and I will flounce too.

I was very fortunate that my one daughter hated High School Musical, and Bieber, and all of that, etc.

640 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:36:31am

re: #633 EmmmieG

Steampunk just died.

Justin Bieber made a steampunk video. A Christmas steampunk video.

With malice aforethought, I link the video.

(Why no, I'm not fond of steampunk as a rule.)

641 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:37:47am

re: #633 EmmmieG

Steampunk just died.

Justin Bieber made a steampunk video. A Christmas steampunk video.

I'll have to thank him someday for killing it off. In a couple of years it'll be fun to pull out my copy of Space:1889 again when everyone and their idiot third cousin producer isn't ruining it.

642 makeitstop  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:38:33am

re: #636 lawhawk

And apparently he flubbed the lyrics when making a live appearance too.

I just watched the video. His autotune goes to 11ty!

I'll give the producer credit for cleverly nicking big chunks of 'I Want You Back' by the Jackson 5. Video sucks, though.

643 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:39:07am

re: #639 EmmmieG

I was very fortunate that my one daughter hated High School Musical, and Bieber, and all of that, etc.

OK, that's it. I'm flouncing. (For a couple of hours.)

644 jaunte  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:42:29am

EricBoehlert

VIDEO: Bill O'Reilly Hits Community Organizer with Umbrella, Tries to Get Him Arrested; bit.ly/tqeNRW

You can't explain that!

645 funky chicken  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:47:17am

re: #633 EmmmieG

Steampunk just died.

Justin Bieber made a steampunk video. A Christmas steampunk video.

And "shawty" instead of "shorty" for my son. The Beiber Xmas song came on the radio this morning, and my son starts yelping for me to turn it off, and then goes off on a rant about skinny white kid using "shawty" to talk to his date.

And I'm asking him why it would be romantic to call one's date "shoddy." I mean, if you think your date is shoddy, look somewhere else. LOL

Anyway, another teen slang term explained, and ruined, I guess. At least I won't have to hear it come out of my son's mouth.

646 funky chicken  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:51:08am

re: #632 lawhawk

Definitely not an appeaser if you go by the ongoing UAV campaign against AQ worldwide. Heck, you can't even claim he's an appeaser if he stands by the call to withdraw US forces from Iraq by the end of the year - a date set by the Bush Administration but was subject to further negotiation between US and Iraq's government to continue allowing US forces to remain in country subject to further conditions (those talks ended and the US refused to allow US forces to be subject to liability). Can't claim he's an appeaser when he's surged troops in Afghanistan either.

So - in sum - not an appeaser.
I rate those claims as "Pants on Fire".

And 100% nonsensical. But try explaining that to my dad, who has fallen in with the TP crowd. The empirical evidence is quite clear. Somali pirates, Bin Laden, Al-Alawki or however he spelled his name, etc, etc.

I'll admit I was very, very skeptical when Obama was elected. I'm not any more. I'm a scientist, so facts are persuasive for me.

647 sattv4u2  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:51:55am

re: #644 jaunte

EricBoehlert

You can't explain that!

Actually, one probably can

COULD BE (i'm not saying it is,, just going off of your "can't explain that",,), but COULD BE, O'Rielly lowers the umbrella to shield himself from the reporters camera, and in so doing a gust of wind turns the umbrella inside out (clearly seen after the guy was hit by it). As the umbrella is being blown inside out it does hit the cameraman, but I "hit" an old lady once when my umbrella did the same thing on a Boston street years ago

648 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 10:09:58am
649 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:12:14am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

Wow, how utterly fucked up & inhumane some of these comments are. If everything else was exactly the same, but the photos of the wounded were of any people besides Palestinians, then the reactions would be totally different.

The demographics obviously haven't changed that much.

You haters can keep your disgusting hatred. Choke on it. I'm done.

Yes, this is a flounce. Ding away, I'm not sticking around to keep count or read sarcastic responses.

OK. I have to say that I'm really disappointed by the comments about the photo of the injured child.

It's one thing to point out obvious examples of propaganda photos, and they do exist. But in this case, assuming this was a staged photo, or that the baby wasn't injured, is just NOT warranted. You can't come to that conclusion from one photograph. This is one frozen moment of time, and you can't see what was happening at that scene. He could have been switching the baby to a better position, there could have been someone out of the frame getting ready to take the baby, there could have been ANY number of reasons why that frozen moment exists.

I'd hate to lose CuriousLurker. Her comments and Pages have been extremely valuable to me personally and to LGF, and I'm really disappointed to see what happened in this thread.

650 Aye Pod  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:20:48am

re: #649 Charles

Well said, Charles.

651 Buck  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:25:45am

re: #629 makeitstop

Obama responds to charges that he's an 'appeaser'

Heh. Spin that, Republicans.

Yep, terrorists that threaten the USA and the US military, he has a good record. However terrorists who threaten other countries? Fatah, Hamas, and Hezbollah? Not so much.

652 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:26:54am

re: #651 Buck

That's the best attempt at negative spin on Obama's dealings with terrorism I've ever seen, Buck. Congrats. It's pure spin.

653 Buck  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:35:09am

re: #652 Obdicut

That's the best attempt at negative spin on Obama's dealings with terrorism I've ever seen, Buck. Congrats. It's pure spin.

Sure you would think so.

654 blueraven  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:39:35am

re: #651 Buck

Yep, terrorists that threaten the USA and the US military, he has a good record. However terrorists who threaten other countries? Fatah, Hamas, and Hezbollah? Not so much.

Last I heard, Obama was President of the United States of America.
Also, he did a pretty good job of protecting Libya from the terror of Gadaffi.

Al Queda is also a threat to many nations, not just the USA.

655 Buck  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:45:58am

re: #654 blueraven

Last I heard, Obama was President of the United States of America.

Correct, my point is for him to support Israel when they want to defend themselves, and not criticize them for doing what he would do.

You might choose to ignore the double standard, however in my opinion, and the opinion of others, it is there.

656 I Am Kreniigh!  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 11:59:23am

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

We're pretty scathing about the quality of commenters on Fox and Hot Air and such.

I usually skip those threads here; what anonymous crazies are saying in web forums is slightly less interesting to me than what new graffiti has appeared on the wall out in the public restroom.

657 blueraven  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:15:04pm

re: #655 Buck

Correct, my point is for him to support Israel when they want to defend themselves, and not criticize them for doing what he would do.

You might choose to ignore the double standard, however in my opinion, and the opinion of others, it is there.

Honeslty, I dont give a damn about your opinion. Obama is not your President and you have no say in the matter of who our president is.

658 Buck  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:19:35pm

re: #657 blueraven

Honeslty, I dont give a damn about your opinion. Obama is not your President and you have no say in the matter of who our president is.

Another opinion from the xenophobic crowd.

659 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 12:23:01pm

re: #658 Buck

Another opinion from the xenophobic crowd.

Thanks for bringing your personal touch to this thread

660 windsagio  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 1:26:46pm

y'all are fucked up.

661 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 1:28:52pm

re: #660 windsagio

y'all are fucked up.

always dehumanize palestinians, ALWAYS

662 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 7:05:06pm

re: #649 Charles

OK. I have to say that I'm really disappointed by the comments about the photo of the injured child.

It's one thing to point out obvious examples of propaganda photos, and they do exist. But in this case, assuming this was a staged photo, or that the baby wasn't injured, is just NOT warranted. You can't come to that conclusion from one photograph. This is one frozen moment of time, and you can't see what was happening at that scene. He could have been switching the baby to a better position, there could have been someone out of the frame getting ready to take the baby, there could have been ANY number of reasons why that frozen moment exists.

I'd hate to lose CuriousLurker. Her comments and Pages have been extremely valuable to me personally and to LGF, and I'm really disappointed to see what happened in this thread.

Thank you for that, Charles. It means a lot to me.

Many thanks also to the other lizards who responded here after I left, emailed me, and sent me messages via Twitter. I want to try to make a positive difference in the world, even if it's only a tiny one, and a couple of you have reminded me that I can't really do that by walking away when things get ugly.

Soooo, I'm de-flouncing, but sticking to just reading articles & Pages till the end of the year. Hopefully, by then I'll have things back in perspective and will have figured out how to push back against comments I find ugly or hateful without taking them to heart or worrying about becoming hateful myself. Maybe I need to grow a tougher set of scales—like modified taxi driver armor or something. Heh.

Anyway, last LGF comment until 1/1/2012: Hope everyone has an enjoyable Christmas, Hanukkah, Kawnzaa, Festivus, or whatever else people celebrate during December. Be safe. Talk to the rest of you on Twitter or by email.

663 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Dec 8, 2011 9:53:51pm

re: #660 windsagio

y'all are fucked up.

re: #661 WindUpBird

always dehumanize palestinians, ALWAYS

Are you seriously blaming "all" here? Again?

664 Aye Pod  Fri, Dec 9, 2011 4:18:57am

re: #663 Sergey Romanov

re: #661 WindUpBird

Are you seriously blaming "all" here? Again?

This came up before - no, he's talking to those to whom it applies. Those who still need to need to adopt glaringly prejudiced attitudes to everything they see regarding the Israel/Palestine issue and who get teary eyed over the memory of 'how LGF used to be' before the bigots were binned.

665 Aye Pod  Fri, Dec 9, 2011 4:20:35am

re: #662 CuriousLurker

Glad you are staying, CL :)

666 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Dec 9, 2011 4:42:10am

HAIL STAN!!!1

667 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 9, 2011 8:57:56am

re: #662 CuriousLurker

Yay!

668 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Dec 9, 2011 10:18:30pm

re: #649 Charles

re: #662 CuriousLurker

Well when people around you that you truly respect are telling you you are way off take another look.

That would be me this time. CL, I too did send you a message on twitter. For whatever part I played in upsetting you I do apologize.


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