Wingnut Blogs Whine Hilariously About Romney Conference Call

Somebody call a waaahmbulance
Wingnuts • Views: 24,403

Wingnut bloggers are hilariously freaking out today about a conference call held by the Romney campaign, because they took questions from Mother Jones and Talking Points Memo, but not … them. The charge is led by third string wingnut “Datechguy:” If you’re a conservative Mitt Romney apparently doesn’t want you / Update Romney Camp cries false » Datechguy’s Blog.

Matt Lewis in the daily caller reports that in an attempt to make the case that Newt Gingrich as unacceptable to conservatives proceeded to insult conservatives by taking no questions from conservatives outlets. Here is the list:

JOHN DICKERSON, CBS NEWS
MARK HALPERIN, TIME
LLOYD GROVE, THE DAILY BEAST
EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, TPM
DAVID CORN, MOTHER JONES
PHIL RUCKER, WASHINGTON POST

Talking points memo, TALKING POINTS MEMO?

Stupid isn’t the word here. You are trying to make the case you are more conservative than Newt Gingrich and you not only exclude Conservatives from questions but you take questions from flipping Mother Jones and Talking Points Memo? This is an insult to every conservative news outlet, new media site and blogger out there.

And people complained about the way Herman Cain treated friends, but perhaps the Romney Campaign doesn’t consider conservatives friends.

But once again, these idiots are losing their minds over absolutely nothing. I think I see a pattern developing.

“Datechguy” updates with a response from the Romney campaign:

Ryan here from the Romney campaign.

Just read your post about our campaign surrogate conference call this evening.

The Daily Caller piece you cite in your post is wrong.

Tonight (as we do with every call) we sent out a media advisory to our regular press inviting members of the media to join the call. We use a phone conferencing system to manage these calls.

Participants who join the call are then invited to ask a question after the opening comments by pressing “1” on their phones. Question are fielded on a first come, first serve basis. We do not screen out any media organization. Whoever notifies the operator by pressing ”1” first gets to ask their question first.

On tonight’s call we answered a every single question in the queue. Every reporter – conservative, liberal or nonpartisan – who wanted to ask a question got to ask one. Organizations that were not called on either didn’t press the number “1” or never joined the call in the first place.

Given this information, I hope you will correct your post.
Thanks,

Ryan Williams
Romney for President

Of course, “Datechguy” didn’t correct his post — that’s not what wingnuts do. Instead, he whines some more, then declares that his whining “really hit a nerve.” Victory!

I have sent him a follow up thanking him for his response and asking four questions:

Hello Ryan:

Thank you for your e-mail response.

Per your e-mail I am re-printing this e-mail in full and including it in the post.

I do have some questions:

1. Have you requested a corrected from Matt Lewis of the daily caller. (UPDATE..apparently so)

2. Is the campaign planning on arranging for any conference calls with conservative activists and/or bloggers.

3. Given the Romney campaign’s attack on Newt Gingrich as unacceptable to conservatives to what degree outside of conference calls does the Romney Campaign plan to reach out to conservative activists and bloggers to advance that position?

4. Given that the MSM is likely to actively support the democratic nominee in this election as it has in every other what is the logic in accommodating said media in any way?

Thanks

Update 3: It just struck me, this must have really hit a nerve, Hotair and Daily Caller both received the same e-mail as well with the same update fairly quick.

If wingnut bloggers didn’t exist, they’d have to be invented by someone with a really twisted sense of humor.

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100 comments
1 The Left  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:42:54am

WINGNUTTIA UBER ALLES!

2 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:43:05am

Brand new thread! Rogue One wants to fight.

3 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:44:22am

Now Warren Jeff's is predicting the End Times?

Does he give a date? Unless you donate?

4 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:49:25am

I'm not happy unless I'm mad

5 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:50:53am

"Why didn't you answer the phone?"

"Oh, did you call?"

"No, you asshole, I didn't!"

6 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:53:17am
It just struck me, this must have really hit a nerve
7 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:55:17am
Update 3: It just struck me, this must have really hit a nerve, Hotair and Daily Caller both received the same e-mail as well with the same update fairly quick.

Hey Datechguy, you struck the WTF? Nerve.

8 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:55:39am

"I used to be a blogger like you, but then I hit a nerve."

10 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 9:59:43am

bbl

11 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:01:28am

Haha, good morning!

@JimNorton Just saw a woman drive a Hummer into an auto car wash. It is stuck and now Im not sure I'll ever feel this much happiness again.

12 The Left  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:03:02am

re: #11 Stanley Sea

Haha, good morning!

Hey stanley sea! how are you?

13 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:04:15am

re: #12 iceweasel

Hey stanley sea! how are you?

Good good! Another Christmas party today, going to see some old friends and catch up. How are you & bad assed Jimmah doing??

14 The Left  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:04:46am

re: #13 Stanley Sea

Good good! Another Christmas party today, going to see some old friends and catch up. How are you & bad assed Jimmah doing??

Oh nice! have fun!
The Jimster and I are well, not much new. Happy it's christmas time!

15 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:07:17am

Photos of today's Moscow demonstration taken from a helicopter:

[Link: www.ridus.ru...]

The biggest such event since 1993.

16 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:08:43am

re: #14 iceweasel

Oh nice! have fun!
The Jimster and I are well, not much new. Happy it's christmas time!

Heard there were epic storms and power outages in the land of Scots - I take it you've escaped so far?

17 The Left  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:13:18am

re: #16 publicityStunted

Heard there were epic storms and power outages in the land of Scots - I take it you've escaped so far?

We had crazy wind but didn't lose power, fortunately. The wind and rain were something else though! Had a little snow the other night too. Festive!/

18 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:14:04am

I made up a new saying:

Scotch is like flowers for men

Would Scots approve?

19 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:17:58am

re: #15 Sergey Romanov

Photos of today's Moscow demonstration taken from a helicopter:

[Link: www.ridus.ru...]

The biggest such event since 1993.

So do they have a real chance? Or will Putin simply revert to the historical norm for Russia?

20 blueraven  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:19:43am

re: #15 Sergey Romanov

Photos of today's Moscow demonstration taken from a helicopter:

[Link: www.ridus.ru...]

The biggest such event since 1993.

Is there a crowd estimate?

21 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:22:13am

re: #17 iceweasel

We had crazy wind but didn't lose power, fortunately. The wind and rain were something else though! Had a little snow the other night too. Festive!/

Hello from conspirator HQ!
Glad you lucked out on power. We in LA had big winds and a lot of damage. $20 million and counting. Half that in Pasadena alone. So many trees down in the streets it was eerie to drive around.

22 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:22:25am

re: #16 publicityStunted

I did here. I saw something about 165 mph winds and went O_O.

23 The Left  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:22:25am

re: #18 BigPapa

I made up a new saying:

Scotch is like flowers for men

Would Scots approve?

I know a few who would!

24 Atlas Fails  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:23:18am
...the MSM is likely to actively support the democratic nominee in this election...

LOL, do the wingnuts still think there's going to be a primary challenger to Obama? Let me guess, this guy also thinks that Newt Gingrich has a cat's chance in hell of becoming president.

25 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:27:58am

Datechguy is R.S. McCain's sidekick, isn't he? Are sidekicks supposed to be smarter or dumber than their leader?

26 Mocking Jay  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:33:35am

Yay.

Another debate tonight.

Woo

Hoo.

27 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:34:03am

re: #25 wrenchwench

Datechguy is R.S. McCain's sidekick, isn't he? Are sidekicks supposed to be smarter or dumber than their leader?

Oh right - I totally forgot that. He's one of the morons who viciously attacked me for pointing out that RS McCain is an outright racist. He hasn't gotten any smarter since then.

28 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:35:30am

Funny shit this am. From the comments of Wonkette

I can't wait to see Calista's new book about her rise from mistress to potential FLOTUS, "Yes Virginia, There is a Pantie Clause."

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:36:49am

re: #26 JasonA

Yay.

Another debate tonight.

Woo

Hoo.

They need to stop doing this. For their own sakes, and those of the voters.

30 Mocking Jay  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:37:39am

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

They need to stop doing this. For their own sakes, and those of the voters.

At least we can get through this one without drinking to 9-9-9.

31 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:39:09am

re: #24 Atlas Fails

LOL, do the wingnuts still think there's going to be a primary challenger to Obama?.

A few of them do. They think that the some of the nattering on the far left about a primary challenger is going to go somewhere. If that was the case, we would have heard from a real challenger by now.

32 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:39:13am

re: #30 JasonA

Tonight one of the drinking phrases must be "gotcha question."

33 Mocking Jay  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:39:44am

re: #32 jaunte

Tonight one of the drinking phrases must be "gotcha question."

"I will be the nominee."

34 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:39:46am

Also, "flip-flop."

35 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:39:59am

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

They need to stop doing this. For their own sakes, and those of the voters.

Actually, for the sake of the voters they need more of these debates. The more crazy on display, the more that sane, sensible people will realize that the GOP slate of candidates sucks.

36 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:40:06am

re: #19 wlewisiii

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

37 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:40:07am

re: #25 wrenchwench

Datechguy is R.S. McCain's sidekick, isn't he? Are sidekicks supposed to be smarter or dumber than their leader?

Sidekicks are the lighthearted, good-natured voice of reason. Likely to be as smart as the leader, they typically share the leader's goals. Minions are usually dumb sycophantic cannon fodder who don't really have any motivation of their own, but revel in the opportunity to take part in hands-on shenanigans without having to worry about the tactical, strategic, or logistical details. Henchmen (or "henchwomen", or more recently, "henchpersons" or "persons of hench") may actually be smarter than the leader, and usually follow the leader strictly out of expediency and convenience rather than loyalty or shared ideology.

38 Mocking Jay  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:40:32am

re: #34 jaunte

Also, "flip-flop."

If Romney brings up his marriage, that has to be worth a whole bottle.

39 dragonfire1981  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:41:09am

This kind of stuff really pisses me off, especially as someone who has actually studied media and worked as a journalist before.

While there can be some crossover between bloggers and journalists, there are many bloggers who CAN'T be rightfully called journalists.

As a journalist, you're expected to use a certain degree of tact when asking questions of a political figure in a conference call of this nature, you just can't come out with:

"Hey Mitt, what do you think of the evil Muslim interloper in the White House?"

And expect to be taken seriously.

Even though Romney IS a conservative, his campaign I'm sure has had plenty of experience dealing with the media and knows full well that allowing bloggers (i.e. practically anyone) into a call like this without any screening process whatsoever is a recipe for disaster.

You want to ask a candidate a stupid question? Go to a town hall meeting or some such.

A media conference call is not the place for it. Serious working journalists do themselves no favors whatsoever by burning bridges with major public figures, especially a figure who WILL be prominently in the news for the next 11 months and beyond.

Think about it, what would an editor think of you if he found out the Romney Campaign will no longer answer your inquiries because you asked an unbelievably stupid or bigoted question? At any reputable outlet, you would be strongly disciplined if not outright fired for such a thing.

If same happened to a conservative blogger, I'm sure it would be spun much like "datech" is spinning it. That is not that the Romney campaign doesn't want to deal with crazy questions, but that they don't give a crap about conservative "media".

The whole thing just seems so silly. I may be wrong, but somehow I don't see Charles having much interest in participating in an Obama campaign media call.

But even if he did, I'm sure he'd do his homework and go through the proper channels.

40 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:41:15am

re: #32 jaunte

Tonight one of the drinking phrases must be "gotcha question."

But what about:

Founding Fathers
class warfare
defund the.... the... uh...

I smell a poll....

41 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:41:25am

re: #20 blueraven

The official police estimate is 25,000, but they always minimize the sizes of opposition events. I would say it's between 30-50 thousands. During the event itself estimates of 80-100-150000 were thrown around, but the bigger ones are clearly false.

42 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:43:05am

Mark Halperin is definitely a conservative. John Dickerson values his journalistic cred enough to trash talk the liberals as often as he can.

43 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:44:05am

re: #37 negativ

Minions are usually dumb sycophantic cannon fodder who don't really have any motivation of their own, but revel in the opportunity to take part in hands-on shenanigans without having to worry about the tactical, strategic, or logistical details.

They're also ridiculously cute, which is why I want my own army of them:

44 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:44:38am

re: #26 JasonA

Yay.

Another debate tonight.

Woo

Hoo.

I'm enjoying them. I didn't have any other plans tonight.

45 Alexzander  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:46:46am

Palestinians respond to Newt:

Palestinians slam Gingrich as "ignorant"

JERUSALEM - Palestinian officials are reacting with dismay to Republican presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich's statement that they are an "invented" people.

The Jewish Channel on Friday released excerpts of an interview in which the former House Speaker said Palestinians were not a people because - unlike Israelis - they never had a state.

"Remember, there was no Palestine as a state," Gingrich said. "It was part of the Ottoman Empire.

"I think we have invented the Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs and who are historically part of the Arab community, and they had a chance to go to many places, and for a variety of political reasons, we have sustained this war against Israel now since the 1940s. It's tragic."

...

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

46 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:47:22am

re: #40 BigPapa

Look for Gingrich to be 'Reaganesque':

Since May, Gingrich has been practicing speaking in one-minute intervals, the length of time required by the debates. He's done it both in debate preparation -- originally with the help of campaign staffers who abandoned him in June -- and on the campaign trail, giving prepared speeches in one-minute pieces.

He's specifically prepared by reading through almost all of Ronald Reagan's debate transcripts from his 1980 presidential campaign, looking to learn from Reagan's communication style.
[Link: www.boston.com...]

47 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:48:26am

re: #45 Alexzander

It's of course the same sort of racism as when antisemites claim that Jews are Khazars.

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:50:00am

[Link: echo.msk.ru...]

Putin's press-secretary Peskov says that the government hasn't, as of yet, formed a position in regard to the anti-falsification protest.

49 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:50:10am

re: #46 jaunte

It still blows my mind that Newt Gingrich is relevant in 2011, and that he's the GOP front-runner. WTF.

50 Alexzander  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:50:38am

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

It's of course the same sort of racism as when antisemites claim that Jews are Khazars.

Absolutely. I hope Next realizes he actually hurts Israel with that kind of rhetoric today.

51 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:51:26am

Andrey Isayev, a representative of "United Russia", said that the protesters' position "will be heard" by the state and society.

[Link: lenta.ru...]

52 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:51:56am

re: #50 Alexzander

He's more interested in pandering for votes than helping to make peace.

53 Alexzander  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:52:59am

re: #48 Sergey Romanov

[Link: echo.msk.ru...]

Putin's press-secretary Peskov says that the government hasn't, as of yet, formed a position in regard to the anti-falsification protest.

I'm still very surprised they officially allowed the protest, although it was certainly the correct strategic move on behalf of the state. Social uprisings are inevitable; state's that wish to stay in power need to learn how to manage, disarm and essentially neuter these kinds of events rather than simply fighting against them.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:54:40am

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

It's of course the same sort of racism as when antisemites claim that Jews are Khazars.

No, it's more akin to the whole 'Israel is illegitimate because the majority of Jewish Israelis' ancestors arrived in the area during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. How come they didn't just stay where they were? How come they needed a state?" routine. Self-determination being dependent on meeting a certain arbitrary standard of historical 'authenticity', and ignoring actual historical events and pressures.

Much of what he's saying there is, to a degree, historically accurate, just as it's accurate to point out that the great boom in the proto-Israeli population happened after WWII. It just doesn't HELP anything.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:55:01am

re: #50 Alexzander

Absolutely. I hope Next realizes he actually hurts Israel with that kind of rhetoric today.

I don't think Newt cares.

56 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:55:21am

re: #46 jaunte

Look for Gingrich to be 'Reaganesque':

He's specifically prepared by reading through almost all of Ronald Reagan's debate transcripts from his 1980 presidential campaign, looking to learn from Reagan's communication style.

So, lipstick on a pig then?

57 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:56:23am

re: #5 Obdicut

"Why didn't you answer the phone?"

"Oh, did you call?"

"No, you asshole, I didn't!"

Yeah, these "right wing media" types couldn't be bothered to participate in the campaign's conference call, and they they bitch and moan that their questions weren't taken...but they weren't there, so they couldn't ask any questions, but they're still gonna bitch and moan.

I think James O'Keefe needs to catch these "journalists" being LAZY. If they're too, um, busy to participate in candidates' conference calls/press events, perhaps they need to find another profession. Or admit that they aren't professionals at all.

Look in the mirror and blame yourselves, dudes. I believe your former darling Herman Cain said that.

58 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 10:57:16am

re: #56 negativ

I don't think the personality transplant will take in time.

59 Alexzander  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:01:48am

Well this is depressing.

HotAir had a open registration yesterday and over 4100 people signed up. To be honest I didn't even know they had closed registration, but it still makes me want to pull my hair out.

60 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:02:50am

looking to learn from Reagan's communication style

???

but ronald reagan's great secret was that he never seemed mean

gingrich's main product is being mean

61 The Left  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:03:43am

re: #59 Alexzander

Well this is depressing.

HotAir had a open registration yesterday and over 4100 people signed up. To be honest I didn't even know they had closed registration, but it still makes me want to pull my hair out.

That is very depressing.

62 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:05:04am

"Remember, there was no America as a state," Gingrich said. "It was part of the British Empire.

"I think we have invented the American people, who are in fact British and who are historically part of the British community, and they had a chance to go to many places

63 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:05:50am

re: #54 SanFranciscoZionist

No. Denying legitimacy of a state is one thing. Denying that the Palestinian people do exist (regardless of how they came to exist in the first place, whether it was recent, etc.) is the same racist bullshit as denial of "authenticity" of the Jewish people. Who cares how peoples came to exist? They do now.

64 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:07:40am

re: #62 engineer dog

The same thing is said about Ukrainians by some Russian nationalists. Oh, didn't you know, all Ukrainians are really Russians, and all that identity thing is a recent invention.

65 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:08:05am

re: #59 Alexzander

Well this is depressing.

HotAir had a open registration yesterday and over 4100 people signed up. To be honest I didn't even know they had closed registration, but it still makes me want to pull my hair out.

Could be 41 people and all their sockpuppets. I've seen the type...

66 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:08:16am

Damn. I think I agree with Newt Gingrich here:

"Remember, there was no Palestine as a state," Gingrich said. "It was part of the Ottoman Empire.

"I think we have invented the Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs and who are historically part of the Arab community, and they had a chance to go to many places, and for a variety of political reasons, we have sustained this war against Israel now since the 1940s. It's tragic."

Thank goodness I was about to climb in the shower anyway.

67 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:10:12am

re: #64 Sergey Romanov

The same thing is said about Ukrainians by some Russian nationalists. Oh, didn't you know, all Ukrainians are really Russians, and all that identity thing is a recent invention.

i heard that 'the ukrainian fox outsmarts the russian bear'

68 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:10:55am

Telling someone that their aspirations are irrelevant is virtually guaranteed to produce stronger determination on their part to achieve them.

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:11:55am

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

No. Denying legitimacy of a state is one thing. Denying that the Palestinian people do exist (regardless of how they came to exist in the first place, whether it was recent, etc.) is the same racist bullshit as denial of "authenticity" of the Jewish people. Who cares how peoples came to exist? They do now.

Er, that is exactly what I am talking about. I think my example is somewhat closer. The Khazar people are off in their own little world, it's a conspiracy theory. This is about denying statehood based on a failure to conform to a fantasy of what you need to do and be in order to be eligible for statehood.

70 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:12:08am

re: #62 engineer dog

"Remember, there was no America as a state," Gingrich said. "It was part of the British Empire.

"I think we have invented the American people, who are in fact British and who are historically part of the British community, and they had a chance to go to many places

The problem is, the American people aren't surviving on massive foreign aid, and haven't survived on massive foreign aid for the last 60 years. The Palestinian people have, and those years and trillions of dollars haven't led to any kind of improvement in their situation.

Gingrich has found more than a kernel of truth in his point about their arab heritage...of course, the Palestinian people can't go "many places," but it's because their arab brethren don't want them.

71 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:14:26am

LOL, and here's the first counter-measure: [Link: lenta.ru...]

Pro-Putin youth orgs are gonna organize a demonstration of "supporters of Dmitry Medvedev and Vladimir Putin" on Dec. 12. (the Constitution day).

72 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:14:32am

re: #65 wrenchwench

Could be 41 people and all their sockpuppets. I've seen the type...

Campaign workers.

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:14:35am

re: #70 funky chicken

Gingrich has found more than a kernel of truth in his point about their arab heritage...of course, the Palestinian people can't go "many places," but it's because their arab brethren don't want them.

They've never denied being Arabs. Practically speaking, however, they're Arabs with nowhere to go.

I'm in favor of a two-state resolution, not least because I see the window of opportunity closing on that, and all the alternatives are horrible. What does Newt want? If it's for Jordan and Egypt to open their doors and arms, I regret to tell him that that ship has long sailed.

74 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:16:39am

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that's my point - I'm not talking about statehood, but about denial of ethnic identity.

75 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:17:19am

re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist

They've never denied being Arabs. Practically speaking, however, they're Arabs with nowhere to go.

I'm in favor of a two-state resolution, not least because I see the window of opportunity closing on that, and all the alternatives are horrible. What does Newt want? If it's for Jordan and Egypt to open their doors and arms, I regret to tell him that that ship has long sailed.

Arafat and the PLO were the worst thing the Palestinians could embrace...he took them backwards, decades

76 blueraven  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:18:08am

re: #66 funky chicken

Damn. I think I agree with Newt Gingrich here:

Thank goodness I was about to climb in the shower anyway.

Just because there is an element of truth in that statement, doesn't mean that his conclusions are correct.
His statement is not helpful. It is inflammatory, just like much of his rhetoric. He is no diplomat, that's for sure.

77 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:18:28am

re: #32 jaunte

Tonight one of the drinking phrases must be "gotcha question."

There's another debate tonight? C'mon now...

78 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:18:57am

Palestinians are Arabs, Arabs and Jews are Semites. Russians are Slavs. Slavs are Indo-Europeans. It's matryoshkas all the way down, without any sort of a contradiction ;)

79 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:18:57am

re: #70 funky chicken

The problem is, the American people aren't surviving on massive foreign aid, and haven't survived on massive foreign aid for the last 60 years. The Palestinian people have, and those years and trillions of dollars haven't led to any kind of improvement in their situation.

Gingrich has found more than a kernel of truth in his point about their arab heritage...of course, the Palestinian people can't go "many places," but it's because their arab brethren don't want them.

their economic situation shouldn't have any bearing on it. they are a group of people, and to say that they should be some other group of people doesn't add anything useful to the discussion

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:19:04am

re: #74 Sergey Romanov

Well, that's my point - I'm not talking about statehood, but about denial of ethnic identity.

Well, Newt is saying that Palestinians are Arabs. Palestinians agree, except for the folks who insist they're descended from the Phoenecians or some damn thing, who are about as in touch with reality as the Jews I've met who claim descent from Khazar warrior princesses. (Yes. I've met a couple.)

81 Alexzander  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:19:23am

Newt is such an idea man! He has like an idea every minute!

82 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:20:32am

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

Americans exist, for example.

And someone who just walked off of Ellis Island and got his citizenship was every bit as much American as anyone else.

Much to the DAR's dismay.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:21:08am

re: #76 blueraven

Just because there is an element of truth in that statement, doesn't mean that his conclusions are correct.
His statement is not helpful. It is inflammatory, just like much of his rhetoric. He is no diplomat, that's for sure.

That's the issue here.

I spend a lot of my time arguing against fake narratives of Palestinian history and peoplehood.

Newt's not wrong like that.

He's wrong about what any of this practically MEANS at the present time. And the 'they could have gone lots of places' is ridiculous, unless he means California.

84 funky chicken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:22:50am

re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist

They've never denied being Arabs. Practically speaking, however, they're Arabs with nowhere to go.

I'm in favor of a two-state resolution, not least because I see the window of opportunity closing on that, and all the alternatives are horrible. What does Newt want? If it's for Jordan and Egypt to open their doors and arms, I regret to tell him that that ship has long sailed.

Right, he's not proposing a viable solution, as there are none, IMHO. The status quo isn't sustainable in a climate of continuing global financial problems either. Eventually somebody's gonna win a US presidential election who is gonna want to halt or severely curtail funding for folks who seem intent upon the destruction of our only real ally in the region.

But, it's not our problem. If the Palestinians can't figure out some kind of reasonable path forward for themselves, .... eventually the western world will become tired of being their primary source of income.

And that's not Israel's fault.

85 Alexzander  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:24:27am

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

He's wrong about what any of this practically MEANS at the present time. And the 'they could have gone lots of places' is ridiculous, unless he means California.

Was there an offer at some point in time to go to California?

86 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:26:06am

re: #84 funky chicken

Right, he's not proposing a viable solution, as there are none, IMHO. The status quo isn't sustainable in a climate of continuing global financial problems either. Eventually somebody's gonna win a US presidential election who is gonna want to halt or severely curtail funding for folks who seem intent upon the destruction of our only real ally in the region.

But, it's not our problem. If the Palestinians can't figure out some kind of reasonable path forward for themselves, ... eventually the western world will become tired of being their primary source of income.

And that's not Israel's fault.

personally, I think that it's gonna take a major ME showdown to produce some permanent state for the Palistinians...when the smoke clears, they will be just another matter to deal with, and without their proxies, they will have to accept what's offered

87 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:26:38am

re: #85 Alexzander

Was there an offer at some point in time to go to California?

i always watch nature documentaries on madagascar with interest, since the nazis had an idea at one time that they would send all the jews under their control there

88 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:28:08am

re: #78 Sergey Romanov

Palestinians are Arabs, Arabs and Jews are Semites. Russians are Slavs. Slavs are Indo-Europeans. It's matryoshkas all the way down, without any sort of a contradiction ;)

and in the end europeans are just a bunch of wandering invaders from africa who crowded out the native neanderthals

89 Altermite  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:29:25am

re: #62 engineer dog

"Remember, there was no America as a state," Gingrich said. "It was part of the British Empire.

"I think we have invented the American people, who are in fact British and who are historically part of the British community, and they had a chance to go to many places

"I think we have invented the human race, who are in fact apes and who are historically part of the primate family, and had a chance to go to many places"

90 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:29:31am

re: #88 engineer dog

and in the end europeans are just a bunch of wandering invaders from africa who crowded out the native neanderthals

Yep. We're all just a bunch of vibrating energy anyway.

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:29:51am

re: #89 Altermite

"I think we have invented the human race, who are in fact apes and who are historically part of the primate family, and had a chance to go to many places"

The Third Chimpanzee!

92 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:30:20am

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

No. Denying legitimacy of a state is one thing. Denying that the Palestinian people do exist (regardless of how they came to exist in the first place, whether it was recent, etc.) is the same racist bullshit as denial of "authenticity" of the Jewish people. Who cares how peoples came to exist? They do now.

Unless human cloning has come to be, I thought we all came to exist pretty much the same way . . . .

93 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:30:49am

re: #87 engineer dog

i always watch nature documentaries on madagascar with interest, since the nazis had an idea at one time that they would send all the jews under their control there

that would've taken some logistical heave ho

94 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:31:43am

re: #92 ggt

Unless human cloning has come to be, I thought we all came to exist pretty much the same way . . .

You just had to make it about sex! ///

95 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:31:47am

Another new thread, I just got back!

I have to leave again soon.

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:32:38am

re: #93 albusteve

that would've taken some logistical heave ho

The plan was to cram 4,000,000 Jews on a small island. It was obviously genocidal, not as immediate as gas chambers, but...

97 Altermite  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:39:10am

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

The plan was to cram 4,000,000 Jews on a small island. It was obviously genocidal, not as immediate as gas chambers, but...

Madagascar is an enormous island. Just sayin'

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 11:56:18am

re: #97 Altermite

Madagascar is an enormous island. Just sayin'

Yes, but first of all a part of the island would be taken by the Nazi military administration, and second, a Polish commission that visited M. in 1930s (a Jewish state in Madagascar once had been a semi-mainstream idea with which various powers toyed around) concluded that it was only fit for a resettlement of 5-7 thousand families.

99 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 1:10:08pm

re: #97 Altermite

Madagascar is an enormous island. Just sayin'

It's mostly wasteland, though.

100 sagehen  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:43:35pm

re: #70 funky chicken

The problem is, the American people aren't surviving on massive foreign aid, and haven't survived on massive foreign aid for the last 60 years. The Palestinian people have, and those years and trillions of dollars haven't led to any kind of improvement in their situation.

Gingrich has found more than a kernel of truth in his point about their arab heritage...of course, the Palestinian people can't go "many places," but it's because their arab brethren don't want them.

um... when the "American" people came into being, it required
1) a great deal of bloodshed to wrest territorial control from who had it before;
2) massive economic assistance from foreign nations (in the form of loans, but if we'd lost it wouldn't have been paid back); and
3) foreign troops.

I really, really, *really* don't want the Palestinians to take that approach to getting a state. I'd much rather there be negotiations, lines drawn on a map, and a ceremony to mark the official handover date.


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