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198 comments

1 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 1:25:42pm

Stunning skills and grit. Revives ones faith in the following generation. Go girl go.

2 Sionainn  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 1:30:22pm

Absolutely beautiful! I love to watch excellent climbers.
I wanted a comparison on how much more difficult a 9a (5.14d) was in comparison with the 5.7 or 5.8 that I've climbed and found this handy chart. It makes me appreciate what she accomplished all the more.

3 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 1:41:58pm

I wonder who does her nails?

4 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 1:43:44pm

re: #2 Sionainn

Absolutely beautiful! I love to watch excellent climbers.
I wanted a comparison on how much more difficult a 9a (5.14d) was in comparison with the 5.7 or 5.8 that I've climbed and found this handy chart. It makes me appreciate what she accomplished all the more.

I've climbed out of the gutter several times...not quite the same I know

5 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 1:47:42pm

As long as she's roped in, I can watch. If it was a free climb, I couldn't.

6 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 1:48:30pm

relax...
Floyd

8 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:00:13pm

Quite the feat.

I love rock climbing but I haven't done it in years because I am so out of shape. It was never anything serious. But I'd be on a hike, look up, and think "that looks interesting" -> shimmy up a crack, across a scree slope, and inch along a ledge just to see an old, gnarled, wind blown, solitary tree up close.
*sigh*
At least I can still hike though...


On a different note, look at those arms when she is climbing. She'd punch your head right off your shoulders.

9 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:00:28pm

I just found nearly every Goon Show episode is up on youtube.

Yay.

For anyone who's never heard an episode, I recommend it.

You've gotta be able to handle British accents of great variety, though.


10 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:06:56pm

re: #7 iceweasel

Pammy's losing it (again):

HOLLYWOOD JIHAD: SHOOTOUT, GUNMAN CALMLY TARGETED DRIVERS AND PEOPLE WHILE SHOUTING ALLAHU AKBAR!

Break-Up May Have Triggered Hollywood Gunman's Rampage

The ex-girlfriend of the man police killed Friday after he shot at motorists and pedestrians told KTLA 5 that a recent break-up may have triggered the man's rampage.
....
She said Brehm was "really stressed out lately." He met a woman he thought was a pharmaceutical saleswoman, who had given him some kind of pills, Alligood said. He began taking the pills, which was alarming because he never took "hard" drugs before.

"He was very anti-pharmaceutical," Alligood said.

After Brehm met the woman -- who Alligood would not name -- he was never the same.

11 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:08:00pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I just found nearly every Goon Show episode is up on youtube.

Yay.

For anyone who's never heard an episode, I recommend it.

You've gotta be able to handle British accents of great variety, though.

[Video]

I can happily say I've never heard of it

12 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:11:12pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Break-Up May Have Triggered Hollywood Gunman's Rampage

The best thing about that link is that it led me to this:

Woman Hides Stolen Fur Coat In Underwear For 3 Days

13 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:11:43pm

re: #11 albusteve

I can happily say I've never heard of it

It was Peter Sellers and friends on BBC--Monty Python radio predecessor.

14 [deleted]  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:11:58pm
15 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:13:36pm

re: #13 Decatur Deb

It was Peter Sellers and friends on BBC--Monty Python radio predecessor.

Including the late great Spike Milligan.

16 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:14:12pm

re: #14 MikeySDCA

Mark Steyn says a lot of shit. A lot of it is dumb as fuck:

There simply are no longer genuinely "poor" people in sufficient numbers. As Miss Shaidle points out, if you're poor today, it's almost always for behavioral reasons - behavior which the state chooses not to discourage but to reward.

What an asshole.

17 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:14:20pm

re: #15 Obdicut

Including the late great Spike Milligan.

Commie WBAI carried it in the 60s.

18 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:15:28pm

never saw Pink Floyd...if I had a choice it would have been this gig

19 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:16:14pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Look at the bright side. We at least know how politically nuts Mikey is.

20 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:16:47pm

re: #17 Decatur Deb

Two great quotes from him:

I thought I'd begin by reading a poem by Shakespeare, but then I thought, why should I? He never reads any of mine.

And

My Father had a profound influence on me. He was a lunatic.

Spike Milligan

21 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:17:13pm

re: #18 albusteve

never saw Pink Floyd...if I had a choice it would have been this gig

[Video]

I saw them in the late 80's just after Roger Waters left the band. Great show.

22 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:17:37pm

re: #17 Decatur Deb

Commie WBAI carried it in the 60s.

I'm just not a sit and stare kinda guy...television does little for me

23 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:17:39pm

re: #19 ProLifeLiberal

Look at the bright side. We at least know how politically nuts Mikey is.

Not really, no. He might think the quotes are dumb too, or just be stirring the pot, or any number of other things.

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:17:47pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

That's why I try to avoid relying on single witnesses as much as possible.

(Married ones, though...///)

25 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:18:27pm

re: #14 MikeySDCA

OT

Steyn, Mark (2011-08-08). After America: Get Ready for Armageddon (p. 68). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.

Dickhead with his tongue up Rush Limbaugh's ass says what?

26 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:18:37pm

re: #22 albusteve

I'm just not a sit and stare kinda guy...television does little for me

It was radio--back before the days of silent television.

27 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:19:25pm

re: #18 albusteve

never saw Pink Floyd...if I had a choice it would have been this gig

[Video]

You would choose to see them play 4 songs in their 60s instead of a full show in their 20s or 30s?

28 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:20:23pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

I saw them in the late 80's just after Roger Waters left the band. Great show.

i appreciate them more as time goes by...back in that time I was consumed with the blues...and Money is essentially the blues

29 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:21:53pm

re: #27 bratwurst

You would choose to see them play 4 songs in their 60s instead of a full show in their 20s or 30s?

don't know...I assumed No Excuses was a full show

30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:22:21pm

re: #7 iceweasel

Pammy's losing it (again):

HOLLYWOOD JIHAD: SHOOTOUT, GUNMAN CALMLY TARGETED DRIVERS AND PEOPLE WHILE SHOUTING ALLAHU AKBAR!

Of course. I saw this video earlier, there's one guy who says he was shouting "Allahu akbar." But I think he may have been lying or misheard it - nobody else reports this and none of the videos have him saying anything like this.

Here's some new video of the shooter:

[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]

Nothing Islamic at all. But all it takes is one random guy interviewed on the street in Hollywood for Geller to start flipping out.

31 Altermite  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:22:32pm

Anyone know when the debate is/what channel? Thanks!

32 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:23:35pm

re: #31 Altermite

Anyone know when the debate is/what channel? Thanks!

9pm ET, on ABC.

33 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:24:53pm

re: #30 Charles

Of course. I saw this video earlier, there's one guy who says he was shouting "Allahu akbar." But I think he may have been lying or misheard it - nobody else reports this and none of the videos have him saying anything like this.

Absolutely. Witnesses' words on details aren't some kind of a gospel, esp. if they're not corroborated. Pareidolia, lying...

But suppose for a second he did shout it. So what? Shouting "AA" doesn't make one a Muslim terrorist. A crazy guy can do it for lulz.

34 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:26:16pm

re: #31 Altermite

re: #32 Charles

Their "submit a question" form is still up. If they ask a question from the batch that's actually tough, meaningful, and challenging, I'll need to pick my jaw up off the floor.

35 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:26:21pm

re: #30 Charles

Of course. I saw this video earlier, there's one guy who says he was shouting "Allahu akbar." But I think he may have been lying or misheard it - nobody else reports this and none of the videos have him saying anything like this.

Here's some new video of the shooter:

[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]

Nothing Islamic at all. But all it takes is one random guy interviewed on the street in Hollywood for Geller to start flipping out.

Last commenter in the CBS line posits 'several' ear-witnesses. Birth of a Truthie.

36 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:28:40pm

One of the few truly insightful people in the world of business:

Clayton Christensen: How Pursuit of Profits Kills Innovation and the U.S. Economy

Including:

How is this working out across the economy? In the semi-conductor industry, for instance, there are almost no companies left in America that fabricate their own products besides Intel [INTC]. Most of them have become “fab-less” semiconductor companies. These companies are even proud of being “fab-less” because their profit as a percent of assets is much higher than at Intel. So they outsource the fabrication of the semi-conductors to Taiwan and China.

Christensen notes that when he visits these these factories, they have nothing to do with cheap labor. It’s very sophisticated manufacturing, even though it’s (not yet) design technology. The plants cost around 10 billion dollars to build.

Christensen recalls an interesting talk he had with the Morris Chang the chairman and founder of one of the firms, TSMC [TSM], who said:

“You Americans measure profitability by a ratio. There’s a problem with that. No banks accept deposits denominated in ratios. The way we measure profitability is in ‘tons of money’. You use the return on assets ratio if cash is scarce. But if there is actually a lot of cash, then that is causing you to economize on something that is abundant.”

Christensen agrees. He believes that the pursuit of profit, as calculated by the ratios like IRR and ROA, is killing innovation and our economy. It is the fundamental thinking drives that decisions that he believes are “just plain wrong”.

37 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:30:15pm

re: #33 Sergey Romanov

But suppose for a second he did shout it. So what? Shouting "AA" doesn't make one a Muslim terrorist. A crazy guy can do it for lulz.

If he shouted Geronimo, would that make him a Native American seperatists?

38 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:32:53pm

re: #37 Obdicut

If he shouted Geronimo, would that make him a Native American seperatists?

no, but it gives me courage when I launch off a vertical black diamond run in brand new powder

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:34:04pm

re: #37 Obdicut

If he shouted Geronimo, would that make him a Native American seperatists?

No, it would obviously make him a paratrooper. OMFG! It's a military plot!/

40 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:34:04pm

re: #37 Obdicut

If he shouted Geronimo, would that make him a Native American seperatists?

No, just part of the vast parachutist conspiracy.

41 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:35:50pm

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

One of my favorite moment is in a John Ford movie, where a Mexican dude introduces Geronimo, and says "Or in your language, Jerome."

Every time I watch it with people who don't know that already they go "Ohhh!"

Everyone thinks Geronimo is a Native American name for some reason.

42 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:36:47pm

re: #41 Obdicut

Everyone thinks Geronimo is a Native American name for some reason.

Someone does?!

43 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:37:00pm

re: #41 Obdicut

One of my favorite moment is in a John Ford movie, where a Mexican dude introduces Geronimo, and says "Or in your language, Jerome."

Every time I watch it with people who don't know that already they go "Ohhh!"

Everyone thinks Geronimo is a Native American name for some reason.

I think it was given to him by the Mexicans he terrorized

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:37:18pm

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

re: #40 The Ghost of a Flea

I win the internets.

45 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:38:52pm

well here you go
Floyd

46 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:41:30pm

"A woman who felt Obama let the middle class down has changed her mind":[Link: www.latimes.com...]

47 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:42:18pm

re: #43 albusteve

I think it was given to him by the Mexicans he terrorized

According to legend, it was because of Mexican soldiers crying out to St. Jerome while Goyathlay killed one after another with a knife, and some Americans overheard. Seems a little strained.

48 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:44:49pm

re: #14 MikeySDCA

Steyn, Mark

"Canada's Harold Camping."

49 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:45:15pm

Meanwhile... down in Durban, it looks like the ultra-marathon, now well past a day past the deadline, will wind to and end (?) in then next couple of hours.

I can only conclude that many nations are trying to help South Africa from coming off as having botched this meeting, even though the major players in the meeting really don't see eye to eye on many things. It's a face-saving effort for SA, which as host play President of the COP.

It's all a slow train to nowhere ... but they are determined to not "fail". I think the diplomatic-fu is much larger than the actual sentiments of the various nations' legislatures or rulers on address AGW, and the diplomats are doing their best to come up with something that looks like their nations are doing something.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:50:29pm

My favorite "poster" from today's demonstration:
[Link: slon.ru...]

"We believe, hope, wait!"

Putin's name is on the Mausoleum.

51 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:51:15pm

BTW, having 192 parties work on a document in parallel really calls for modern software and electronic real time updating, but the UN seems still stuck in having to print off hard copies of each revision, distributing them, marking them, repeat in an infinite loop.

An electronic interactive tool is what is required, and software engineers have long figured out how to do cooperative work, online. The diplomatic corp really ought to look into that.

52 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:54:47pm

re: #49 freetoken

Surprisingly strong article on the ABC News website:

America’s Position on Climate ‘A Tragedy,’ Losing U.S. Prestige to China

America’s loss of prestige as a leader in global attempts to deal with catastrophic global warming is so commonplace now that even prominent international leaders in those efforts are dropping their usual diplomatic reticence about stating it.
...
European leaders now readily talk off and on the record about how they are now ”looking east” - meaning to China - in calculating how they will engage market forces in clean energy to drive a meaningful cut in carbon emissions.
...
It is within the constraints of this scientifically based urgency - readily acknowledged by almost all national governments, though not the United States – that many countries are working to hammer out agreements that they hope will, in the words of Executive Secretary Figueres, “raise ambition” among nations, spurring them to figure out how to make ever more emissions cuts … and eventually lead even the United States to avoid “the worst,” the most catastrophic suffering.

And it is within the constraints of this simple math that Alden Meyer, mindful of the worries of the 80,000 members of America’s non-partisan, non-governmental and not-for-profit Union of Concerned Scientists, spoke with such intense frustration to ABC news here at this conference today.

He is deeply concerned about a growing “anti-science movement” back home in America, about a “dysfunctional political system” that is betraying the deep ethical concerns of U.S. scientific experts, and about politicians who play on people’s fear and confusion about basic climate science long since accepted by the responsible governments of almost all other nations.

I'm well aware that China, the world's biggest emitter, has so far delivered little more than lip service, but the whole thing still speaks to what an epic FAIL the US is on this issue. Can't be good for the nation, karma-wise...

53 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 2:58:44pm

re: #52 publicityStunted

Surprisingly strong article on the ABC News website:

America’s Position on Climate ‘A Tragedy,’ Losing U.S. Prestige to China

I'm well aware that China, the world's biggest emitter, has so far delivered little more than lip service, but the whole thing still speaks to what an epic FAIL the US is on this issue. Can't be good for the nation, karma-wise...

It's hard for America to lead on anything scientific, especially climate change, when its own leaders are arguing amongst themselves over whether it's actually happening or not while the candidates of one of the two major parties are all concluding that it's a "hoax" or simply "overblown" and arguing in favor of dismantling the very regulatory framework that would do something about it.

54 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:00:23pm

re: #53 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yep. And while the financial leaders of the US are busy masturbating to a false idea of value, creating bubble after bubble while outsourcing all new innovation.

Couldn't be a better formula for bankrupting the future of the United States.

55 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:02:22pm

re: #52 publicityStunted

Nearly all NGOs speaking at that conference are lefty, or just outright Bolivarian, in their nature, and their primary goal is to attack the US.

The Union of CS are a bit more responsible than some, but the real problem with that article is that it was pounced upon by many as somehow Figueres was slamming the US delegation (see the stream of nonsense on Twitter), but in reality Todd Stern is trying to do the only thing he can - try at all costs to avoid a document that claims to be a legally binding. He knows that his boss will not submit anything to the Senate for ratification given the certain loss. Other nations know this, and it becomes useful cover for them to avoid the public limelight. For example, the Indian parliament essentially told the Indian delegate to approve to nothing but KP extension. Democratically elected government in Canada doesn't want to go forward with the KP, and Japan doesn't want to go forward without China and the US anymore. And so on.

So beware of the forced story. No one mentions that the OPEC nations refuse to allow any tarriff or tax on their exports, for example.

56 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:03:25pm

Oh, and the final meeting has started:

[Link: unfccc4.meta-fusion.com...]

As I mentioned before, I'm convinced that it is now just a face-saving measure for SA.

57 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:03:37pm

re: #54 Obdicut

Yep. And while the financial leaders of the US are busy masturbating to a false idea of value, creating bubble after bubble while outsourcing all new innovation.

Couldn't be a better formula for bankrupting the future of the United States.

And simultaneously setting up China to be the next superpower. It's no wonder the rest of the world is looking to them, because they seem to be the only ones who actually are taking these issues seriously. While they are bringing coal, oil, and nuke plants online at a breakneck pace in order to modernize their nation, they're also setting the groundwork for a green future.

Meanwhile, we're doubling down on oil, even as China & India are gobbling it up as fast as possible, and turning our noses up at renewable, clean energy as "too expensive" or "too complicated." If you want to see how empires decline and then fall, just take a good look at us and see it happen in real-time.

58 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:07:07pm

Off to do prayer and mortification of the flesh in prep for tonight's debate. BBL

59 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:09:56pm

re: #57 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

China setting themselves up as a green power really won't help them as climate change actually arrives, though; they're still idiots for bringing more and more coal and oil plants online. They aren't going to be able to somehow proof their country against AGW. They're still going to be 'developing' when the serious harm from AGW arrives, and they'll be devastated by famine, floods, and other stuff.

Earthquakes in China still kill hundreds of thousands when they happen.

There is not going to be a next superpower. There is going to be those who have the chance at surviving the rise of the seas. But only the chance.

60 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:10:52pm

re: #57 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

pretty much speaks for me

61 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:11:12pm

re: #59 Obdicut

There is not going to be a next superpower.

No one seems to be getting that message. Certainly tonight's "debate" won't be open to that message.

62 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:17:39pm

Since tonight's debate will be the one where Newt is the nominal leader it will be interesting to see if he tries to steer it to his pet ideas, or if Mitt can pull out his debate-fu from his normal stiff delivery.

63 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:17:49pm

re: #61 freetoken
Those taking part in tonight's "debate" are a bit nearsighted. /

64 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:22:05pm

For any of you watching the COP... the "legal instrument" vs "legal outcome" vs "protocol" debate is a classic case of language being the primary tool of diplomats.

65 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:33:13pm

I'm not sure I can take hours more of the diplo-speak in Durban followed by 2 hours of GOP-speak in Des Moines. That may just be asking for too many of my brain cells to commit suicide.

66 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:46:35pm

re: #65 freetoken
Diplo-speak and GOP-speak are in the same family. It is very deadening.

67 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:46:46pm

Ice Cube Celebrates The Eames House:

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:50:50pm

I am currently de-toxing from my annual trip to Toys R Us. (Because they carry chocolate coal, that's why.)

The dedication to attractively packaged garbage raises the blood pressure. Don't get me started on their "science" toys.

69 Summer Seale  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:51:50pm

I have one for you all, because I've missed ya, and I'm still a Princess =)

70 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:53:14pm

re: #68 EmmmieG
I will not go at the "science" toys. And I am thankful my nephews are old enough to appreciate gift cards from places like Amazon and L L Bean. :)

71 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:55:24pm

re: #70 PhillyPretzel

I will not go at the "science" toys. And I am thankful my nephews are old enough to appreciate gift cards from places like Amazon and L L Bean. :)

I know where the real science toys are sold. This is why it irritates me.

72 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:55:27pm

re: #67 Charles

That is one eclectic man.

73 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 3:56:11pm

re: #68 EmmmieG

I am currently de-toxing from my annual trip to Toys R Us. (Because they carry chocolate coal, that's why.)

The dedication to attractively packaged garbage raises the blood pressure. Don't get me started on their "science" toys.

All the really cool science toys were deemed too dangerous and banned long ago. Remember chemistry sets? Just a box of toxic chemicals and some lame instruction book which nobody ever read.

74 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:00:04pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

All the really cool science toys were deemed too dangerous and banned long ago. Remember chemistry sets? Just a box of toxic chemicals and some lame instruction book which nobody ever read.

I made the mistake of buying a chem set. They've made the chemicals nearly impossible to get to, and the instruction manual was nearly incomprehensible.

So instead, I own some glassware and a bunch of highly toxic chemicals. (They are hidden away from the kids.)

Ba-boom!*

*the best instructions are found on the internet

75 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:01:40pm

re: #74 EmmmieG

The stuff they used to put into chemistry sets when I was a kid are no longer allowed. I remember our town's hobby store had an entire section of science goodies, goodies that stores just won't, or are not allowed, to sell anymore.

76 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:01:58pm

re: #71 EmmmieG
This place used to have a store in Barrington,NJ. They closed it after 20 years. Now they are on the internet. [Link: www.scientificsonline.com...]

77 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:03:55pm

give em a can of Play-Doh

78 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:03:59pm

re: #76 PhillyPretzel

This place used to have a store in Barrington,NJ. They closed it after 20 years. Now they are on the internet. [Link: www.scientificsonline.com...]

That's a good place for science equipment stores. They can reach a national audience that way, and carry stuff that it wouldn't be cost efficient to carry in a brick and mortar store.

Besides, all the customers are online.

79 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:04:11pm

re: #77 albusteve

give em a can of Play-Doh

A fourteen year old?

80 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:08:16pm

Hamas sets up rocket production line in Sinai

Hamas has established forward bases and rocket production facilities in the Sinai Peninsula in an effort to protect them from Israeli air strikes, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

By establishing the facilities in Egypt, Hamas aims to protect its assets since it believes Israel will not strike targets inside Egypt due to the affect it would have on bilateral relations.

Israel has called on Cairo to increase its efforts to restore order in Sinai and to prevent attacks, but the Egyptian military has held back from dismantling the Hamas infrastructure in the peninsula.

81 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:09:14pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Hamas sets up rocket production line in Sinai

Does this make them job creators?

82 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:09:23pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout
Damn. That is not good. :(

83 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:09:54pm

The El Salvador delegate is reading from his iPad. So far he's the only one I've seen to have left paper behind. How symbolic of the UN meeting - 20th century structure struggling with 21st century problems.

84 Big Joe Ghazi  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:10:06pm

John Huntsman dis-invited from tonight's debate. He doesn't meet minimum poll numbers to qualify.

85 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:10:14pm

re: #67 Charles

Ice Cube Celebrates The Eames House:

[Video]

My lounge chair (Plycraft knockoff) is in the background. The kids laughed at it for years, until it showed up on "Frasier".

86 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:10:49pm

re: #81 EmmmieG
No. Country destroyers yes.

87 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:11:40pm

re: #84 mracb
Not surprised. Ivy Leaguers are not very popular.

88 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:12:40pm

re: #84 mracb

Noticed that the running debate website lists:

Participants: Romney, Perry, Bachmann, Gingrich, Santorum, Paul

So it's now down to 6. This ought to give Newt more time to pontificate.

89 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:13:32pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Hamas sets up rocket production line in Sinai

a test for Egypt...do they control their own land and affairs?

90 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:14:13pm

Ron Paul will get more time to enlighten us on the dangers of the FED!

Wheee!!!

91 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:14:24pm

re: #82 PhillyPretzel

Damn. That is not good. :(

Not good and probably going to get worse. For now the military is still calling the shots, they don't want a conflict with Israel and would rather not be dealing with terrorists from Gaza. Pretty soon The Muslim Bros are going to be calling the shots and assistance/cooperation with Hamas is only going to increase.

92 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:14:57pm

re: #84 mracb

John Huntsman dis-invited from tonight's debate. He doesn't meet minimum poll numbers to qualify.

How sad a commentary is it on the GOP when the sanest of their candidates is not allowed at a debate because he polls lower than their craziest candidate?

93 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:16:33pm

re: #89 albusteve

a test for Egypt...do they control their own land and affairs?

I think they do. There's probably a good reason the military is allowing this. Probably protection from the future political establishment (muslim Bros and salifists) is what is allowing Hamas to establish bases.

94 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:17:43pm

Evening Lizards.

Charles, Trying to log in using my new Vizio Pad. Getting multiple log in errors.
Probably me. But just wanted you to know that it wasn't someone trying to hack my account. BTW, also tried earlier today as well with the same result.

95 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:17:53pm

Planning tonight's anesthesia. Going with Corona in honor of our "Show Me Your Papers" law.

96 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:19:20pm

re: #7 iceweasel

Pammy's losing it (again):

HOLLYWOOD JIHAD: SHOOTOUT, GUNMAN CALMLY TARGETED DRIVERS AND PEOPLE WHILE SHOUTING ALLAHU AKBAR!

Hi, Ice! Hi, Jimmah! Haven't seen either of you in the longest time.

97 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:19:33pm

re: #95 Decatur Deb

Planning tonight's anesthesia.

Is it anesthesia that we need? Perhaps someone could prescribe something for insanity.

98 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:20:20pm

re: #97 freetoken

Is it anesthesia that we need? Perhaps someone could prescribe something for insanity.

Everclear. Lots and lots of Everclear.

/

99 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:21:49pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Hamas sets up rocket production line in Sinai

Israel will have to attack. You can't just let the enemy bombard you with artillery like that, because it will kill the morale of your soldiers and civilians.

But that might be part of the plan: Hamas could be trying to foment a war between Egypt and Israel.

100 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:22:19pm

re: #98 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Everclear. Lots and lots of Everclear.

/

OK, Neo.

101 darthstar  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:25:50pm

Rick Perry's anti-gay ad just keeps on giving...it turns out the music for his ad was written by a gay composer.

[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

102 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:25:54pm

re: #84 mracb

John Huntsman dis-invited from tonight's debate. He doesn't meet minimum poll numbers to qualify.

Am I wrong in thinking policies like that are a load of horse shit? It all but ensures that anyone without big money backing them won't be heard. I mean, it's not like Huntsman and people like Buddy Roemer are fringe nutcases (though in the GOP, how would you tell the difference?)

If the CEO of some company announced that they'd decided not to advertise their product because too few people knew about it, they'd be fired given a $20 million severance package and asked to resign.

103 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:27:14pm

re: #101 darthstar

Rick Perry's anti-gay ad just keeps on giving...it turns out the music for his ad was written by a gay composer.

[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

Beautiful. Don't even want to think about who does that fabulous hair.

104 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:27:19pm

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

Israel will have to attack. You can't just let the enemy bombard you with artillery like that, because it will kill the morale of your soldiers and civilians.

But that might be part of the plan: Hamas could be trying to foment a war between Egypt and Israel.

in which case, Egypt would lose a fight they can't afford economically or politically...they'd get smoked

105 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:27:31pm

re: #84 mracb

John Huntsman dis-invited from tonight's debate. He doesn't meet minimum poll numbers to qualify.

What channel is the debate on?

106 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:29:23pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

What channel is the debate on?

ABC, iirc.

107 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:30:14pm

re: #102 negativ

Am I wrong in thinking policies like that are a load of horse shit? It all but ensures that anyone without big money backing them won't be heard. I mean, it's not like Huntsman and people like Buddy Roemer are fringe nutcases (though in the GOP, how would you tell the difference?)

If the CEO of some company announced that they'd decided not to advertise their product because too few people knew about it, they'd be fired given a $20 million severance package and asked to resign.

It's not simply the primary debates, but those in the general as well. I'd love nothing more than to one day see a presidential debate where third parties, ones who don't enjoy major corporate backing, could have candidates up there debating alongside the Dem and Repub candidates. Yeah, you'd get some real oddballs at times, but you'd at least get an opportunity to hear a wider variety of opinions and solutions.

108 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:30:41pm

Someone has translated Rick Perry's fail-tastic anti-gay ad:

Heh.

109 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:30:48pm

re: #104 albusteve

in which case, Egypt would lose a fight they can't afford economically or politically...they'd get smoked

Hamas is fanatical enough not to care. And they may think can use the defeat to enhance their own power by claiming that Egypt lost because its faith was not pure. The war would also tear holes in the officer structure of the Egyptian army, which Hamas could then try to fill with its own people.

110 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:33:13pm

Got it figured out. I think. Vitural keyboards take some getting used to.
So please bear with me as I learn how to use this thing

111 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:33:41pm

re: #106 Varek Raith

ABC, iirc.

You're right. Romney vs. Gingrich tonight. But I'd give Newt the edge in that matchup. He's got killer instinct we have not seen out of Romney.

112 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:35:02pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

You're right. Romney vs. Gingrich tonight. But I'd give Newt the edge in that matchup. He's got killer instinct we have not seen out of Romney.

maybe they will kill each other?...
probably not

113 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:36:09pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

You're right. Romney vs. Gingrich tonight. But I'd give Newt the edge in that matchup. He's got killer instinct we have not seen out of Romney.

re: #112 albusteve

maybe they will kill each other?...
probably not

Two men enter, one man leaves!

/who run Bartertown?

114 freetoken  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:36:22pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Newt will take his rope and hang himself in his dickishness.

At least, that is one likely outcome.

The other is that Mitt decides he ought to pick just one topic, finally, on which he can be passionate and passion-away the night, trying to convince the dreary eyed audience that he actually cares for something other than just inheriting the next GOP-nominee-in-waiting crown.

115 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:36:51pm

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

Israel will have to attack. You can't just let the enemy bombard you with artillery like that, because it will kill the morale of your soldiers and civilians.

But that might be part of the plan: Hamas could be trying to foment a war between Egypt and Israel.

I'm sure Israel will do something and Hamas would love to drag Egypt into a wider conflict. The only question is what Israel does about. I really can't envision them retaking Sinai. It would probably be easier to just retake Gaza but I don;t think Israel wants to be on the ground in either place. Maybe they'll just do the usual intel work and use targeted drone strikes in Sinai. Treat it as an extension of Gaza.

116 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:37:13pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

You're right. Romney vs. Gingrich tonight. But I'd give Newt the edge in that matchup. He's got killer instinct we have not seen out of Romney.

It will never cease to amaze me that Newt Gingrich is not only relevant in 2011, but that he's the GOP front runner. WTF? Is the Republican party really that desperate for some sort of leadership that they have to look to a man they hated and marginalized for over a decade?

117 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:37:56pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

You're right. Romney vs. Gingrich tonight. But I'd give Newt the edge in that matchup. He's got killer instinct we have not seen out of Romney.

Gingrich is in his element now, the center of attention rather than one of a group. Problem is that he's also his own worst enemy, so he may follow Perry in saying something that base simply can't forgive.

118 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:38:35pm

20 minutes: Corn to pop, limes to cut.

119 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:39:34pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Hamas is fanatical enough not to care. And they may think can use the defeat to enhance their own power by claiming that Egypt lost because its faith was not pure. The war would also tear holes in the officer structure of the Egyptian army, which Hamas could then try to fill with its own people.

Egypt is really fucked if Hamas gets a toe hold. As soon as they get bored they're going to start attacking moderate Egyptian political parties and tourists make great soft targets. I'm not very optimistic about Egypt's future.

120 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:40:21pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

I'm sure Israel will do something and Hamas would love to drag Egypt into a wider conflict. The only question is what Israel does about. I really can't envision them retaking Sinai. It would probably be easier to just retake Gaza but I don;t think Israel wants to be on the ground in either place. Maybe they'll just do the usual intel work and use targeted drone strikes in Sinai. Treat it as an extension of Gaza.

the Israelis won't commit themselves to any land, they will just bomb the shit out of any threat from the Sinai...a stupid diversion that the MB should not support, if they do

121 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:41:26pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

20 minutes: Corn to pop, limes to cut.

I just can't watch the debates anymore. I'm going to fire up the big green egg and cook a fresh porkchop for my leftover udon broth.

122 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:41:53pm

Is there a link posted for tonight's debate?

123 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:43:23pm

re: #122 Bubblehead II

Is there a link posted for tonight's debate?

This one will come in handy later.

124 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:43:31pm

re: #120 albusteve

the Israelis won't commit themselves to any land, they will just bomb the shit out of any threat from the Sinai...a stupid diversion that the MB should not support, if they do

Just yesterday Hamas signed on as an official franchise of the Muslim Bros.
Hamas joins Global Muslim Brotherhood

125 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:43:47pm

re: #120 albusteve

the Israelis won't commit themselves to any land, they will just bomb the shit out of any threat from the Sinai...a stupid diversion that the MB should not support, if they do

A rocket assembly line out in the open desert in a warm-war zone is a pretty crappy duty station. It's hard enough to keep the things from blowing up on their own.

126 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:44:10pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Egypt is really fucked if Hamas gets a toe hold. As soon as they get bored they're going to start attacking moderate Egyptian political parties and tourists make great soft targets. I'm not very optimistic about Egypt's future.

big if's...Hamas is poison, especially to Egypt....if the MB rises in power, and if there is an alliance with Hamas, it will be the kiss off death for the MB...if they inspire a showdown with Israel, they will go down in flames...they are not that stupid

127 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:45:21pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

I just can't watch the debates anymore. I'm going to fire up the big green egg and cook a fresh porkchop for my leftover udon broth.

I'm watching them all. I want the complete set of Franklin Mint Complimentary Commemorative Plates.

128 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:46:03pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

I'm watching them all. I want the complete set of Franklin Mint Complimentary Commemorative Plates.

Maybe a specially commissioned painting by Thomas Kincaide, the Painter of Light(tm).

129 albusteve  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:46:43pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

Just yesterday Hamas signed on as an official franchise of the Muslim Bros.
Hamas joins Global Muslim Brotherhood

well, you know...
I think it's crazy to assume Hamas will take the fall for a losing fight with Israel...maybe not

131 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:47:49pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Egypt is really fucked if Hamas gets a toe hold. As soon as they get bored they're going to start attacking moderate Egyptian political parties and tourists make great soft targets. I'm not very optimistic about Egypt's future.

Exactly. Moreover, if Egypt cannot and will not suppress Hamas bombardment of Israel, then ultimately that will force the US to cease sending military aid to Egypt. At which time the power and prestige of the generals will be lowered, and the Muslim Brotherhood will be able to trot out a conspiracy theory that "Israel ordered the US to turn on Egypt, because America is controlled by TEH JOOOS!". And yes, I can see Hamas and its parent organization being that Machiavellian (though Machiavelli himself would think them fools).

132 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:47:53pm

re: #130 Lidane
So he claims. I would not want him as one of my professors.

133 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:49:04pm

re: #130 Lidane

He's a historian, don'tcha know:

Gingrich Camp: Newt Supports A Palestinian State, But ‘You Have To Understand Decades Of Complex History’

Yesterday: "Palestinians are an invented people!"
Today: "I support a Palestinian state! It's all very complex!"
Tomorrow: "The Palestinians are swell people! I never said they don't exist!"

134 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:49:32pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

Just yesterday Hamas signed on as an official franchise of the Muslim Bros.
Hamas joins Global Muslim Brotherhood

No surprise there. Hamas was always an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood anyway. This just makes it official.

135 Atlas Fails  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:49:49pm

Just saw on ESPN that Ryan Braun has apparently tested positive for performance enhancing drugs.

Damn.

136 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:52:53pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

This also makes me sort of regret being lulled into complacency about the Tahir Square uprising. It's starting to look like this whole thing might go very bad very soon.

137 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:53:46pm

Here's a set of comments I saw somewhere else - excruciatingly, maddeningly insightful and true (emphasis mine):

I never cease to be amazed that no matter how rich, powerful and privileged these people are, it's just never enough, they ALWAYS want more more MORE. No matter how much they have, no matter how well they live, no matter how much they sop up of society's total wealth, they invariably want more, and lash out at anyone who stands in their way, even if it's the very people they're trying to take it from and in the process effectively rendering poor. These people are DISEASED!!!

And then, in an even more powerful follow-up:

I'm not being metaphorical. I think these people are literally mentally ill, in a DSM/Personality Disorder way. They appear to have some combination of narcissism, OCD and sociopathy that makes it impossible for them to stop at a certain point and say "Enough! I have all that I need and the rest you're free to do with as you wish.", and forces them to keep trying to get more--WAY more than is necessary or sustainable let alone fair--which at a certain point calls for clearly cruel and sadistic methods, such as throwing people out on the street, breaking their bones with clubs, stealing their money using clever financial instruments issued under color of legality, etc.

It's like you combined the worst, most unappealing, most destructive qualities of a narcissist, a hoarder, and a sadist, into an entire class of people, and removed all obstacles to their ruinous behavior. These people should be in jails and mental hospitals, not corporate boards and political office.

And isn't it so nice to know they own a political party outright?

138 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:54:56pm

re: #133 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yesterday: "Palestinians are an invented people!"
Today: "I support a Palestinian state! It's all very complex!"
Tomorrow: "The Palestinians are swell people! I never said they don't exist!"

I think he was trying to make a relevant point with that "invented people" line, that point being that no one thought of themselves as "Palestinian" until the Zionist movement started the return of Jews to the Holy Land. There is a very good case to be made that the Palestinian identity was an invention used to rally Arab opposition to a homeland for the Jews, and that that invention was enhanced after the Israeli victories of 1948 and 1967.

So Newt may not have expressed himself in the best words, but I don't think he was being an ass on this one and, unlike Rick Perry, I think he knows what he's talking about on this.

139 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:55:34pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

No surprise there. Hamas was always an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood anyway. This just makes it official.

I thought it was an unusual move to make a new official connection between Hamas and the Bros. There's a lot of nuance in the language of the article that I'm not sure I fully understand but it really looks like there's a connection with Hamas being allowed to use Sinai as an arms depot.

140 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:56:33pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

Those are the rantings of a Internet Hater. Unworthy of posting here, IMCO.

141 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:56:54pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

Here's a set of comments I saw somewhere else - excruciatingly, maddeningly insightful and true (emphasis mine):

And then, in an even more powerful follow-up:

And isn't it so nice to know they own a political party outright?

And a 99-year lease on most of another.

142 sagehen  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 4:58:00pm

re: #116 Lidane

WTF? Is the Republican party really that desperate for some sort of leadership that they have to look to a man they hated and marginalized for over a decade?

Yes.

Next question?

143 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:00:10pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

I think he was trying to make a relevant point with that "invented people" line, that point being that no one thought of themselves as "Palestinian" until the Zionist movement started the return of Jews to the Holy Land. There is a very good case to be made that the Palestinian identity was an invention used to rally Arab opposition to a homeland for the Jews, and that that invention was enhanced after the Israeli victories of 1948 and 1967.

So Newt may not have expressed himself in the best words, but I don't think he was being an ass on this one and, unlike Rick Perry, I think he knows what he's talking about on this.

I know there's a historical quibble there but I've never been comfortable with the Jordyptians meme. Everybody comes from somewhere and before that they were somewhere else. Hell, historically there's no evidence that the Jews came from Egypt with Moses. Palestinian identity is what it is and I think it's wrong to tell somebody their notional identity is invalid.

144 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:00:18pm

re: #142 sagehen

Yes.

Next question?

Is there any point where the Republican party will finally rejoin the real world?

145 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:01:10pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Those are the rantings of a Internet Hater. Unworthy of posting here, IMCO.

It's actually pretty well-backed up. Every time they've done psychological tests on CEOs and other corporate officers, they tend to have very high incidences of personality disorders.

I do think saying that people are a disease is dehumanizing and shouldn't be done.

146 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:02:22pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

I think he was trying to make a relevant point with that "invented people" line, that point being that no one thought of themselves as "Palestinian" until the Zionist movement started the return of Jews to the Holy Land. There is a very good case to be made that the Palestinian identity was an invention used to rally Arab opposition to a homeland for the Jews, and that that invention was enhanced after the Israeli victories of 1948 and 1967.

So Newt may not have expressed himself in the best words, but I don't think he was being an ass on this one and, unlike Rick Perry, I think he knows what he's talking about on this.

As I said, Newt's his own worst enemy. It doesn't matter how technically right his comment was, it was stupid of him to have put it in such terms. We're still in the process of fixing damaged relations from the last cowboy president, we don't need another. Certainly not one with a victim-complex like Gingrich.

147 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:02:38pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

I will also add that even most Israelis probably don't share Newt's views. The idea that the Palestians should just pack up and leave Gaza and west Bank is pretty extreme.

148 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:02:48pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

Palestinian identity is what it is and I think it's wrong to tell somebody their notional identity is invalid.

Especially when you're an American.

149 sagehen  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:04:01pm

re: #144 Lidane

Is there any point where the Republican party will finally rejoin the real world?

The day after their pasting next November.

150 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:04:27pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Those are the rantings of a Internet Hater. Unworthy of posting here, IMCO.

Tough. I think they describe the Koch Brothers perfectly. You know, the Koch Brothers whose flunkies brag about bullying the GOP into denying global warming and actively sabotaging attempts to do anything about it.

151 palomino  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:04:37pm

re: #135 Atlas Fails

Just saw on ESPN that Ryan Braun has apparently tested positive for performance enhancing drugs.

Damn.

Another MVP on the juice. Hope things turn out better for him long term than Ken Caminiti.

152 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:05:18pm

re: #149 sagehen

The day after their pasting next November.

That's debatable. The GOP's so far out of touch with reality, they may interpret an ass-whooping next November as proof that they're "not conservative enough" and go even farther into the deep-end.

153 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:06:28pm

re: #145 Obdicut

It's actually pretty well-backed up. Every time they've done psychological tests on CEOs and other corporate officers, they tend to have very high incidences of personality disorders.

I do think saying that people are a disease is dehumanizing and shouldn't be done.

And it wasn't :) Read the comment again. The writer said "these people are diseased", not, "these people are a disease".

154 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:06:41pm

re: #145 Obdicut

It's actually pretty well-backed up. Every time they've done psychological tests on CEOs and other corporate officers, they tend to have very high incidences of personality disorders.

I do think saying that people are a disease is dehumanizing and shouldn't be done.

But it doesn't apply to all senior executives, nor to even to most.

But thanks for making the 'disease' point. That sort of rhetoric is indeed not just wrong but outright dangerous.

155 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:08:20pm

Oh hell. Slipped the time zone by an hour and started drinking too early.

156 Lidane  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:08:43pm

re: #152 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That's debatable. The GOP's so far out of touch with reality, they may interpret an ass-whooping next November as proof that they're "not conservative enough" and go even farther into the deep-end.

The election's almost a year out and a lot can happen between now and then, but if Obama wins a second term, the right wing blogs will be in total meltdown.

I fully expect a lot more "lone wolves" to flip their shit if the GOP loses.

157 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:08:53pm

re: #150 publicityStunted

Tough. I think they describe the Koch Brothers perfectly. You know, the Koch Brothers whose flunkies brag about bullying the GOP into denying global warming and actively sabotaging attempts to do anything about it.

For work reasons, I will not comment about matters relating to Koch Energy.
I value robust debate, but my job comes first.

158 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:09:47pm

re: #156 Lidane

The election's almost a year out and a lot can happen between now and then, but if Obama wins a second term, the right wing blogs will be in total meltdown.

I fully expect a lot more "lone wolves" to flip their shit if the GOP loses.

Yeah--I think ammo prices have just about bottomed for a while.

159 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:11:41pm

re: #154 Dark_Falcon

But it doesn't apply to all senior executives, nor to even to most.

But thanks for making the 'disease' point. That sort of rhetoric is indeed not just wrong but outright dangerous.

So what do you think about this?

[Link: healthland.time.com...]

Is psychopathy a disease?

160 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:14:06pm

re: #153 publicityStunted

And it wasn't :) Read the comment again. The writer said "these people are diseased", not, "these people are a disease".

Oh, so it did. Still, it's silly language-- we don't call people who are depressive 'diseased'. I'm happy to talk about how our modern corporate structure rewards sociopathic behavior, but I'm uncomfortable referring to the mentally ill as 'diseased'.

In a weird way, someone holding that opinion is actually removing some of the fault from those corporate officers who make such evil decisions, like denying AGW. If they really are 'diseased', as in, if they really have a personality disorder, some of the blame has to be shifted to the actual personality disorder. I fully believe in the ability of a sociopath to recognize their own pathology and seek treatment (since I know one who did), but if you put a sociopath in an environment where sociopathy is rewarded it'd be nuts (hah) to think he wouldn't become more and more sociopathic.

That may, in the end, be the explanation for why so many corporations are so nihilistic, have such amazingly short-term views. Anti-social personality disorder people aren't really long-term planners, and our corporate structure has selected for anti-social personalities.

161 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:15:30pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

For work reasons, I will not comment about matters relating to Koch Energy.
I value robust debate, but my job comes first.

So you're not going to comment on the GOP at all, then?

162 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:15:31pm

re: #159 prononymous

So what do you think about this?

[Link: healthland.time.com...]

Is psychopathy a disease?

No Comment.

163 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:15:45pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

No Comment.

Why not?

164 palomino  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:15:57pm

re: #116 Lidane

It will never cease to amaze me that Newt Gingrich is not only relevant in 2011, but that he's the GOP front runner. WTF? Is the Republican party really that desperate for some sort of leadership that they have to look to a man they hated and marginalized for over a decade?

Yeah, who else do gopers have at this point? Bachmann, Perry, Cain, Paul, Santorum all clearly inadequate, if not insane. Huntsman is poison because he worked for Obama's admin. And Romney has been trying for 4 years to get Repubs to like him, and he seems to have hit a ceiling. They just aren't that into him. Which leaves only Newt...he may win the nod by default.

It's not like Gingrich was many people's first choice. He was in low single digits for months, and only shot up the charts after Bachmann, then Perry, then Cain all flamed out in spectacular fashion.

165 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:17:37pm

re: #159 prononymous

"Disease" is a word with limited utility.

Autism is also a 'disease', but if someone starts telling autistic kids "You're diseased!" then that person is an asshole.

Using 'diseased' to refer to people with personality disorders is pejorative, and is a bad slope to go down.

166 darthstar  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:18:46pm

re: #155 Decatur Deb

Oh hell. Slipped the time zone by an hour and started drinking too early.

Great idea!

167 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:21:55pm

re: #165 Obdicut

"Disease" is a word with limited utility.

Autism is also a 'disease', but if someone starts telling autistic kids "You're diseased!" then that person is an asshole.

Using 'diseased' to refer to people with personality disorders is pejorative, and is a bad slope to go down.

Ok, I agree. The connotations in the language used could be taken in a bad way. They should have used different terms. Maybe disorder or whatever.

But focusing on that makes it into an argument about tone rather than about the truth of the statements quoted. A red herring, IMO.

168 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:25:56pm

re: #167 prononymous

I'm not making it an argument about tone. I'm pointing out that if the diagnosis is true; that what we have is a corporate structure that rewards antisocial personality disorders, then first of all that means that there's little reason to blame those people doing the most evil crap, since they have something broken in their heads that inhibits their empathy and blaming them for it is like blaming someone with a steroid-producing tumor for having a bad temper.

And second of all, if that's what we've got, then what do we do about it? How do we change the culture? That is kind of the heart of the Occupy stuff; they're correctly identifying that the corporate world is set up in an unempathetic, unympathetic way, an anti-social way, but I don't think changing banking regulations is actually going to fix that. It might help.

It's a cultural problem that we have-- how do you fix a cultural problem?

169 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:27:30pm

re: #165 Obdicut

Using 'diseased' to refer to people with personality disorders is pejorative, and is a bad slope to go down.

True, though you can understand why people, gripped with shock and horror, would use such language when confronted by behavior so evil it seems it could only result from a "sickness."

By the way, the context for the comments I quoted was this story:

Recovering from a dismal 2009 in which the auction house suffered a $6 million loss, Sotheby’s had a very successful 2010, with a net income of $161 million, according to a Sotheby's spokesperson. Consolidated sales were up 74 percent from the previous year in 2010, and CEO William Ruprecht’s pay more than doubled to $6 million as a result of the high earnings.

“We were a big part of that success,” said Ide [head of Sotheby's union]. “And they came to us and asked for cutbacks. It doesn’t make sense.”

So, union members tried to appeal to Diana Taylor (Sotheby's board member and Mayor Bloomberg's girlfriend):

"You are on the board of Sotheby's. Are you on the board of Sotheby's? Are you going to ignore what's happening in your name? Are you going to ignore what's happening? Mrs. Taylor you have the power to do the right thing. Will you please tell us why you're not doing the right thing? Tell us why you're not doing the right thing.

Please speak to us. We're families that are going to lose our health care here. We want to go back to work, we're hard working New Yorkers. We're respectful people. We want our jobs back."

Taylor's reply is shockingly terse, contemptuous and disrespectful:

"I have one thing to say to you. I have had one conversation with [Sotheby's CEO] Bill [Ruprecht] about this, and I told him if he accedes to any of your demands I will resign from the board. That's all I have to say to you. Thank you."

I have words of my own to describe Ms. Taylor, none of which are printable on this site.

170 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:32:17pm

re: #169 publicityStunted

I told him if he accedes to any of your demands I will resign from the board

lol. Is that supposed to be a threat? If you don't give me ice cream I'll hold my breath until I turn blue and then pee my pants on purpose!!

171 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:33:42pm

re: #169 publicityStunted

Oh! This is really weird — I didn’t even know this was legal — they wanted us to waive our rights to report any legal violations on their part. As an individual you can’t file violations through the union, which is how we do things. Apparently they just want us not to be able to file them at all."

That is odd.

172 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:35:28pm

re: #169 publicityStunted

I walk by Sotheby's all the time-- I live right near it-- and it's kind of symbolically awful, a grotesquery of overlush opulence.

It's really weird being a very non-materialistic guy living in the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Watching ladies in mink coats and diamond bracelets look away while their poodle takes a crap, and then having the doorman swoop in to dispose of it.

But that's just surface stuff. I think a lot of the truth comes from game theory; we've come to think, far too much, of the economy, of money, of making money, as a game, as THE GAME of life.

The idea of 'honest work' has gone by the wayside, and instead people talk about anyone who makes millions of dollars as though they're inherently valuable because of that. It doesn't matter how they make it-- if they're a tobacco executive, if they run ad campaigns demonizing scientists-- somehow having millions makes them 'taxpayers' and 'job-creators', like these are titles you gain from hitting a level in a video game.

And this is reflected in the sheer business world as well; corporate officers are now mainly tax-and-liability-avoidance experts, not product innovators. They mainly come up with new ways to adjust their asset-to-profit ratios so they can sell their optioned stock at higher values. And if they fuck up, it's not a problem, they just swap companies, just restart the game.

But it's not a game. It's the world, it's people's lives, and treating it like a game is going to destroy all these precious things, all the fancy restaurants, all the wealth and privilege they've amassed.

If it weren't actually happening, I'd find it a rather fantastic morality tale.

173 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:35:36pm

re: #168 Obdicut

I'm not making it an argument about tone. I'm pointing out that if the diagnosis is true; that what we have is a corporate structure that rewards antisocial personality disorders, then first of all that means that there's little reason to blame those people doing the most evil crap, since they have something broken in their heads that inhibits their empathy and blaming them for it is like blaming someone with a steroid-producing tumor for having a bad temper.

Frankly, I'm not out for blame, or vengance, or just to hate on someone. I just want to work towards figuring out what the problem is, what do do about it, and convincing others to take action. I don't want to hang rich people from trees or whatever.

It's like if something about the structure of modern daycare caused a high ratio of schizophrenics to enter the field. I wouldn't interested in blaming the disordered for a condition that they don't have control over, I would just be interested in how to stop them from being responsible for a large number of children.

And second of all, if that's what we've got, then what do we do about it? How do we change the culture? That is kind of the heart of the Occupy stuff; they're correctly identifying that the corporate world is set up in an unempathetic, unympathetic way, an anti-social way, but I don't think changing banking regulations is actually going to fix that. It might help.

It's a cultural problem that we have-- how do you fix a cultural problem?

Good question. I couldn't say for sure.

174 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:36:12pm

re: #171 jaunte

That is odd.

Not if you're a real or wannabe sociopath with less empathy than a rodent.

175 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:36:42pm
It's a cultural problem that we have-- how do you fix a cultural problem?

We are the Borg.

*Fixed!*

176 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:37:11pm

re: #173 prononymous

It's like if something about the structure of modern daycare caused a high ratio of schizophrenics to enter the field. I wouldn't interested in blaming the disordered for a condition that they don't have control over, I would just be interested in how to stop them from being responsible for a large number of children.

Cool, we're on the same page.

I'm fairly sure we can wind up blaming the baby boomers.

Seriously, figuring out how our culture warped in this fashion would make a pretty fascinating PhD.

177 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:37:25pm

Later, lizards. I'm on my way to see and hear some live Mariachi music. (I'm wearing my flannel lined jeans.)

178 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:38:37pm

re: #176 Obdicut

I'm fairly sure we can wind up blaming the baby boomers.

I saw that!

Get off my lawn!11!

179 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:40:42pm

And then there's the whole "Prosperity Gospel" thing, the idea that riches on this earth show your godliness, too. I'm not really sure how that fits in, whether it's two tidal waves of jerktastic, self-justifying philosophy crashing together, the religious 'god will make you rich' assholes and the 'the guy who dies with the most toys wins' assholes, or whether there's some interaction and synergy there.

180 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:42:52pm

re: #175 Varek Raith

We are the Borg.

*Fixed!*

Your culture will adapt to service us.

/

181 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:43:00pm

Talking about personality disorders is a pretty good warmup for watching the GOP debate.

182 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:44:48pm

re: #176 Obdicut

Cool, we're on the same page.I'm fairly sure we can wind up blaming the baby boomers.

[Link: xkcd.com...]

"An 'American tradition' is anything that happened to a Baby Boomer twice."

183 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:45:18pm

re: #176 Obdicut

Seriously, figuring out how our culture warped in this fashion would make a pretty fascinating PhD.

I did some reading earlier on the type of food rationing that took place in the UK during the world wars (and America as well, during WWII). It just blew me away at how people had to sacrifice, compared to the obscene gluttony and throwaway mentality of today.

I think the answer to your question lies partially in the fact that waste became a virtue instead of a vice - a symbol of wealth, prosperity, and success. People during WWII didn't practice recycling of steel, rubber etc out of environmental friendliness, but out of necessity and common sense. They were the conservatives in the positive sense of the word - not the grotesque Limbaugh-esque abominations we have today, who burn garbage on Earth day out of childish, petty spite.

184 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:46:53pm

Hm, is there a debate tonight? Ha! Im home from Christmas party. I'm actually ready.

185 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:47:07pm

re: #179 Obdicut
That has always baffled me. Especially since it is obviously not true. Some non-religious individuals (or ones from the "wrong" religion) attain great wealth while some very religious people remain very poor.

Also:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/05/15/magazine/15-Leonhardt.html

re: #181 Obdicut

LOL.

186 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:49:04pm

re: #183 publicityStunted
They saved and recycled everything because it would help defeat an enemy.

187 darthstar  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:49:55pm

re: #181 Obdicut

Talking about personality disorders is a pretty good warmup for watching the GOP debate.

Only 10 more minutes until "Name that Disorder" starts...

188 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:50:01pm

re: #180 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Your culture will adapt to service us.

/

Resistance is Futile.

That last could be both the Borg to the Federation or the NYPD to OWS.

189 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:50:17pm

re: #182 negativ

[Link: xkcd.com...]

"An 'American tradition' is anything that happened to a Baby Boomer twice."

Baby boomers? Young punks.

190 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:50:25pm

Interesting explanation on why the uber rich don't pay more taxes @nprnews: Just What Do The Rich Have That's Taxable? http://n.pr/tSvEUM
Retweeted by William Gibson

191 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:51:23pm

re: #183 publicityStunted

I did some reading earlier on the type of food rationing that took place in the UK during the world wars (and America as well, during WWII). It just blew me away at how people had to sacrifice, compared to the obscene gluttony and throwaway mentality of today.

I remember people having fucking fits when Obama said that if we consumed less that'd be nice. They acted like he was going around bending the pipes on their DeLonghi espresso makers and slapping sex toys out of people's va-jay-jays.

I think the answer to your question lies partially in the fact that waste became a virtue instead of a vice - a symbol of wealth, prosperity, and success. People during WWII didn't practice recycling of steel, rubber etc out of environmental friendliness, but out of necessity and common sense. They were the conservatives in the positive sense of the word - not the grotesque Limbaugh-esque abominations we have today, who burn garbage on Earth day out of childish, petty spite.

Yes, that's a good point. The high point of recycling came during World War II, but the Depression was a pretty good time for it too; nothing went to waste.

The standard theory is that those Depression-era parents then either spoiled their kids so they felt like everything could be wasted, used once and thrown away, or they deprived them even though there was plenty (my dad's Depression-era parents certainly did this) so it made them want to be wasteful.

But that's a little too pat for me. I think it's much more complex.

192 jaunte  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:51:42pm

Andy Borowitz:
#GOPDebate Preview: In gaffe of the night, Rick Perry will only remember 2 of Newt's 3 wives.

193 Decatur Deb  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:52:28pm

re: #187 darthstar

Only 10 more minutes until "Name that Disorder" starts...

Link here:

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

194 Altermite  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:53:16pm

Submitted a series of questions on science education and evolution. We'll see if one of them gets through.

195 darthstar  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:54:25pm

re: #194 Altermite

Submitted a series of questions on science education and evolution. We'll see if one of them gets through.

Is your name Grover Norquist? If not, you're unlikely to be selected.

196 Altermite  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 5:55:07pm

re: #195 darthstar

Is your name Grover Norquist? If not, you're unlikely to be selected.

... I just had an idea for the next debate. Because you KNOW there will be more.

197 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 6:01:42pm

re: #191 Obdicut

I remember people having fucking fits when Obama said that if we consumed less that'd be nice. They acted like he was going around bending the pipes on their DeLonghi espresso makers slapping sex toys out of peoples va-jay-jays.

Hahahahahaha thread win :D

The standard theory is that those Depression-era parents then either spoiled their kids so they felt like everything could be wasted, used once and thrown away, or they deprived them even though there was plenty (my dad's Depression-era parents certainly did this) so it made them want to be wasteful.

But that's a little too pat for me. I think it's much more complex.

True. The unsustainable infrastructure that provides big-box, Walmart-esque cheap crap plays a role as well. When that house of cards collapses, it's underground bunker time *_*

198 allegro  Sat, Dec 10, 2011 6:06:00pm

lower taxes, less regulation... we can stop the debate now. That's all there is.


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