Andrew Kaczynski has dug up yet another video of Mitt Romney, the stereotype cynical politician who will say absolutely anything to get elected. You can’t even call this “flip-flopping” because that implies he once held a real position; at this point, who knows what Mitt Romney really believes?
Youtube Video1 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:27:43am |
"So, Mr. Romney, do you not want to the GOP to win the Senate?"
| 2 |
Mattand Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:28:25am |
Honestly, my first reaction is that some of this stuff may be taken out of context. However, in light of Romney's last two ads involving Obama, this is more of a "what's good for the goose" situation.
Honest question: was Romney a good MA governor? I heard he had some sort of health care reform passed that worked out fairly well...
| 3 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:31:07am |
Something must have happened between 2007 and now to make Mitt choose to act differently...
Something must have happened between 2009 and now to make Mitt choose to act differently...
Something must have happened between January and now to make Mitt choose to act differently...
Something must have happened between last Tuesday and now to make Mitt choose to act differently...
///
| 4 |
aagcobb Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:31:45am |
re: #2 mattand
Honest question: was Romney a good MA governor? I heard he had some sort of health care reform passed that worked out fairly well...
Mitt is very proud of it and wants to make sure it isn't inflicted on any other state.
| 5 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:33:51am |
I normally make fun of Republicans who call "RINO!" at anyone willing to work with Democrats.
But Romney clearly identified, at times, as a RINO.
| 6 |
mikec6666 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:34:55am |
Funny thing is, he was right then and wrong now. Sad, he made a good centrist, but makes a shitty rightist. That's the fakeness. The rightward tilt. He should have just run as the "I can beat Obama in the election" dude. Instead he chose to do some sort of kabuki dance and now a fat angry dough-boy will beat him.
| 7 |
wrenchwench Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:36:43am |
re: #2 mattand
Honestly, my first reaction is that some of this stuff may be taken out of context.
What Andrew Kaczynski is demonstrating is that the "context" is the internet. Everything that's available. Much more is available now than ever before.
This presidential campaign is the first one since C-SPAN’s 2010 decision to put its more than 160,000 hours of old video footage online. With that huge cache of political material, all it takes to spread dirt is curiosity and endurance—and then a YouTube channel and a Twitter account.
| 8 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:38:01am |
re: #2 mattand
Honestly, my first reaction is that some of this stuff may be taken out of context. However, in light of Romney's last two ads involving Obama, this is more of a "what's good for the goose" situation.
Honest question: was Romney a good MA governor? I heard he had some sort of health care reform passed that worked out fairly well...
Personally, I'd say he wasn't terrible, but wasn't great. But, as I've said many times before, I'm far from objective when it comes to Romney. I supported him when he ran for governor, but his fighting tooth and nail against gay marriage and basically insulting the people of the Commonwealth when he started running for the GOP spot from office sorta soured me to him. His more recent actions haven't helped me feel any better, either.
| 9 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:41:20am |
everything Mitt says from here on out can be met with this:
“That’s one of the things that I like about him — because he’s been consistent since he changed his mind,” - Christine O’Donnell.
In fact, if it weren't so long it could almost be a tagline.
| 10 |
garhighway Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:45:58am |
re: #9 Dreggas
everything Mitt says from here on out can be met with this:
In fact, if it weren't so long it could almost be a tagline.
Romney: "Consistent since whenever he thought about it last!"
| 11 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:46:15am |
O/T and H/T to a balloon-juice commenter:
Afghan woman jailed for adultery after a relative raped her has been freed.
| 12 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:47:02am |
re: #6 mikec6666
Funny thing is, he was right then and wrong now. Sad, he made a good centrist, but makes a shitty rightist. That's the fakeness. The rightward tilt. He should have just run as the "I can beat Obama in the election" dude. Instead he chose to do some sort of kabuki dance and now a fat angry dough-boy will beat him.
I pictured the Pillsbury Doughboy when you said this and I laughed. but come to think of it, gingrich DOES look like him and like the Stay-Puft marshmallow man in ghostbusters.
| 14 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:48:55am |
re: #12 iceweasel
Gingrich looks permanently annoyed when he's not looking fatuously self-pleased.
| 15 |
BARACK THE VOTE Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:52:47am |
| 16 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:53:36am |
re: #14 Obdicut
That's constipation.
| 17 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:54:15am |
re: #15 iceweasel
Stay Puft has a good, can-do attitude, though. Newt is a hectoring, shrilling, complaining jerk, the kind of guy who, in a meeting, will make every suggestion with a tone of withering contempt and be absolutely certain that if everything had been done his way from the start everything would be just rosy.
| 18 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:55:13am |
| 19 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:56:21am |
| 20 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:57:13am |
re: #5 Obdicut
I normally make fun of Republicans who call "RINO!" at anyone willing to work with Democrats.
But Romney clearly identified, at times, as a RINO.
Romney is an old-fashioned Republican whose party is currently steaming away from him on the Crazytown Express.
| 21 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:59:56am |
Steve King says Obama wants to ban bibles
Back in September, administrators at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center updated the hospital's visitation policy and, in an effort to "respect patients' religious practices and preserve their privacy," included a provision that stipulated that "no religious items, (i.e. Bibles, reading materials and/or artifacts) are allowed to be given away or used during a visit."
The new language went unnoticed for several several weeks until the document was forwarded to the Family Research Council, which immediately alerted members of Congress like Rep. Steve King, who then denounced the policy on the House floor, claiming that it prevented priests from offering communion to wounded soldiers and family members from bringing a Bible to a loved one.
Officials at Walter Reed quickly rescinded the policy, saying it had been incorrectly worded and should have been more thoroughly reviewed before it was released.
Rep. King was on AFA's "Today's Issues" program today with Tim Wildmon and Bryan Fischer to discuss the issue and explained that, in the end, this policy change was really all President Obama's fault:
| 22 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:00:23am |
Romney's problem is he wants to be president so bad he's willing to discard everything he's ever believed in to get that. He's got no principles at all. I am not from Massachusetts but it irked me when he bashed the state in the 2008 race. I mean shit you don't have to like that your state's an icon of liberalism but at least give some cheesy answer about Ma is home of the Adams family and shit even Calvin Coolidge*
*Was born in Vermont but Massachusetts governor.
| 23 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:00:54am |
| 24 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:02:04am |
| 25 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:02:46am |
just wanted to spread a little holiday fear:
| 26 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:03:27am |
re: #24 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Pamela Geller Hits "Pro-Jihad" Obama…for Trying to Stop Iran from Benefiting from Higher Oil Prices
"The United States under Obama is like Secretariat being ridden by Rosie O'Donnell."
She does occasionally have a turn with a phrase, you've got to admit.
| 27 |
RanchTooth Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:04:15am |
re: #25 Dreggas
just wanted to spread a little holiday fear:
[Video]
I just want to spread a little holiday queer:
[Link: creativealliance.org...]
| 28 |
Varek Raith Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:05:34am |
When you see it...
Image: fnc-al-20111214-romneygraphic.jpg
| 29 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:05:39am |
re: #14 Obdicut
Gingrich looks permanently annoyed when he's not looking fatuously self-pleased.
Only Cat Overlords can get away with that behavior set, and you Newt Gingrich are no Cat Overlord!
| 30 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:08:42am |
re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist
Romney is an old-fashioned Republican whose party is currently steaming away from him on the Crazytown Express.
He was also at the time running as an "R" for the states highest office, a state that only 3 times in my lifetime voted for an "R" in the presidential election (1956,, Ike ,,, 1980 and 84 Reagan ,,, with the margin in 84 of less than 4K votes)
Not an excuse,,, just perhaps an explanation
| 31 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:10:19am |
re: #27 RanchTooth
I just want to spread a little holiday queer:
[Link: creativealliance.org...]
I just want to spread a little holiday beer
| 32 |
mr.fusion Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:11am |
re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist
Romney is an old-fashioned Republican whose party is currently steaming away from him on the Crazytown Express.
I don't think I can believe that anymore. I think he is and always was an opportunist, and this video doesn't necessarily show what he believed at the time in his heart. It shows what he believed he needed to say in order to get elected.
The party isn't steaming away from him on the Crazytown Express....he's a part of it. He might not be driving but he's certainly along for the ride.
| 33 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:20am |
| 34 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:25am |
re: #30 sattv4u2
He was also at the time running as an "R" for the states highest office, a state that only 3 times in my lifetime voted for an "R" in the presidential election (1956,, Ike ,,, 1980 and 84 Reagan ,,, with the margin in 84 of less than 4K votes)
Not an excuse,,, just perhaps an explanation
Well, we also have had a recent pattern (Current governor excluded) of electing Republicans to the Governor's office, despite still having a super-majority of Democrats in the state legislature.
| 36 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:50am |
re: #14 Obdicut
Gingrich looks permanently annoyed when he's not looking fatuously self-pleased.
Which reminds of the Boehner expression, when not crying.
| 37 |
Varek Raith Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:12:35am |
Mitt is the GOP's best chance to beat Obama and they are going to squander it methinks.
| 38 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:15:21am |
re: #34 Simply Sarah
Well, we also have had a recent pattern (Current governor excluded) of electing Republicans to the Governor's office, despite still having a super-majority of Democrats in the state legislature.
Volpe was the last "republican" (small r) that won
Weld and Celluci were only slightly to the right of Dukakis
iirc,, Weld was at one time being looked at as a possible VP mate for Clinton (on the advice of Stephanopoulous)
| 39 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:15:46am |
best one yet:
| 40 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:17:19am |
re: #34 Simply Sarah
re: #38 sattv4u2
Volpe was the last "republican" (small r) that won
Weld and Celluci were only slightly to the right of Dukakis
iirc,, Weld was at one time being looked at as a possible VP mate for Clinton (on the advice of Stephanopoulous)
Oh ,, and didn't Clinton nominate him (Weld) for an ambassadorship?
| 41 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:17:37am |
re: #37 Varek Raith
Mitt is the GOP's best chance to beat Obama and they are going to squander it methinks.
I think Gingrich as the possible nominee really changes things. If Mitt were the nominee, I'd put good odds on him choosing our governor, McDonnell but I don't think that would even be possible with Newt because of the 12th amendment.
| 42 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:17:47am |
re: #38 sattv4u2
Volpe was the last "republican" (small r) that won
Weld and Celluci were only slightly to the right of Dukakis
iirc,, Weld was at one time being looked at as a possible VP mate for Clinton (on the advice of Stephanopoulous)
Well, granted. But they still had an R next to their names. And maybe I'm just projecting his father on to him, but it's really hard for me to see Mitt as being a natural fit for the far-right (Even if he also isn't as moderate as he is often given credit for).
| 43 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:18:58am |
re: #38 sattv4u2
Volpe was the last "republican" (small r) that won
Weld and Celluci were only slightly to the right of Dukakis
They were Republicans, right?
| 44 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:19:21am |
re: #37 Varek Raith
Mitt is the GOP's best chance to beat Obama and they are going to squander it methinks.
Everyone says that, but it seems to me that current republicans vote either out of pure ignorance or against Obama and secularists and Democrats. In other words, they vote more against than they vote for anything.
The only Republican who could debate Obama without massive YouTube baggage is Huntsman.
| 45 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:20:23am |
| 46 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:20:55am |
| 47 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:21:12am |
re: #45 Simply Sarah
Yep! To Mexico. Weld resigned in anticipation of the appointment, only to have Helms block it in committee. Kinda feel bad for Weld on that whole thing...
Helms was an asshole on so many levels.
| 48 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:21:39am |
| 49 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:21:46am |
re: #42 Simply Sarah
it's really hard for me to see Mitt as being a natural fit for the far-right
same here
And to me, thats a GOOD thing
| 50 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:23:18am |
How do we keep the private prison system profitable? Thats easy. Bring back debtor's prisons.
Federal imprisonment for unpaid debt has been illegal in the U.S. since 1833. It’s a practice people associate more with the age of Dickens than modern-day America. But as more Americans struggle to pay their bills in the wake of the recession, collection agencies are using harsher methods to get their money, ushering in the return of debtor’s prisons.
NPR reports that it’s becoming increasingly common for people to serve jail time as a result of their debt. Because of “sloppy, incomplete or even false documentation,” many borrowers facing jail time don’t even know they’re being sued by creditors:
Take, for example, what happened to Robin Sanders in Illinois. She was driving home when an officer pulled her over for having a loud muffler. But instead of sending her off with a warning, the officer arrested Sanders, and she was taken right to jail.
“That’s when I found out [that] I had a warrant for failure to appear in Macoupin County. And I didn’t know what it was about.” Sanders owed $730 on a medical bill. She says she didn’t even know a collection agency had filed a lawsuit against her. [...]
A company will often sell off its debt to a collection agency, generally called a creditor. That creditor files a lawsuit against the debtor requiring a court appearance. A notice to appear in court is supposed to be given to the debtor. If they fail to show up, a warrant is issued for their arrest.
More than a third of all states now allow borrowers who don’t pay their bills to be jailed, even when debtor’s prisons have been explicitly banned by state constitutions. A report by the American Civil Liberties Union found that people were imprisoned even when the cost of doing so exceeded the amount of debt they owed.
| 51 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:24:25am |
re: #48 Obdicut
How do you define a 'small-r' Republican?
One that has the "R" next to his name (as Sarah stated) but does not adhere to all that many see as "R" today (far right ideologue,,,strict socon ,,,etc)
| 52 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:25:27am |
re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
How do we keep the private prison system profitable? Thats easy. Bring back debtor's prisons.
Ah, the Debtor's Prison. An idea so stupid, they founded an entire state (Georgia) to have an alternative.
| 53 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:26:10am |
re: #51 sattv4u2
One that has the "R" next to his name (as Sarah stated) but does not adhere to all that many see as "R" today (far right ideologue,,,strict socon ,,,etc)
Well, they adhere to what mainstream Republicans in Massachusetts stand for, at least for the most part. That's gotten a bit more fuzzy in the last few years.
| 54 |
aagcobb Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:26:33am |
re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I use to have people jailed for not paying their child support; sometimes its amazing how fast they can come up with money they didn't have before when they are sitting in a jail cell.
| 55 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:28:07am |
re: #51 sattv4u2
One that has the "R" next to his name (as Sarah stated) but does not adhere to all that many see as "R" today (far right ideologue,,,strict socon ,,,etc)
I think you might be confused a bit. You said Volpe was the last "republican" (small r) that won, and that Weld and Celluci were only slightly to the right of Dukakis. If small-r Means 'not adhering to the stupid socon bullshit', then wouldn't Weld and Celluci count?
| 56 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:29:25am |
| 57 |
Charleston Chew Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:30:06am |
re: #6 mikec6666
Funny thing is, he was right then and wrong now. Sad, he made a good centrist, but makes a shitty rightist. That's the fakeness. The rightward tilt. He should have just run as the "I can beat Obama in the election" dude. Instead he chose to do some sort of kabuki dance and now a fat angry dough-boy will beat him.
I'm not willing to give him so much credit. Romney is a spineless suck-up. The voters of Massachusetts made him a good centrist, because that's what they are.
He's so desperate for approval that if Romney came upon a group of cannibals, the first words out of his mouth would be, "Why, I love the taste of human flesh!"
| 58 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:30:35am |
The Republicans I've respected most here in Virginia over the years have been those less socially rigid. Hence why I liked John Warner and Tom Davis and thus George Allen and Bob McDonnell not at all.
| 59 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:32:10am |
re: #56 sattv4u2
Take your time. I think in the end your point ate its own tail.
| 60 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:33:03am |
AP-GfK Poll Dec. 8-12, 2011
barack 51%
hatey amphibian 42%
barack 47%
smiley oatmeal 46%
they'll nominate smiley
| 61 |
Mattand Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:33:36am |
re: #8 Simply Sarah
Personally, I'd say he wasn't terrible, but wasn't great. But, as I've said many times before, I'm far from objective when it comes to Romney. I supported him when he ran for governor, but his fighting tooth and nail against gay marriage and basically insulting the people of the Commonwealth when he started running for the GOP spot from office sorta soured me to him. His more recent actions haven't helped me feel any better, either.
Just so I understand you: When running for POTUS, Romney started bad mouthing MA while he was governor?
| 63 |
recusancy Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:34:28am |
I’m sure that the Paulistas will find a way to claim that their man has been right about everything, even though his predictions have been all wrong. But he really has built his political career around the notion that he’s an expert in a subject about which he actually understands nothing.
| 64 |
Charleston Chew Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:34:28am |
re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Stay-puft was a sailor, which means he's done more real work than Newt ever has.
Stay-Puft served his country in the Navy, is a life-long New Yorker and has an optimistic can-do attitude.
Stay-Puft 2012!
| 65 |
Mattand Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:36:10am |
re: #64 Charleston Chew
Stay-Puft served his country in the Navy, is a life-long New Yorker and has an optimistic can-do attitude.
Stay-Puft 2012!
I'm a Vigo the Carpathian man, myself.
Edit: didn't know Ghostbuster mythology like I thought I did...
| 66 |
aagcobb Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:37:26am |
re: #60 engineer dog
AP-GfK Poll Dec. 8-12, 2011
barack 51%
hatey amphibian 42%barack 47%
smiley oatmeal 46%they'll nominate smiley
You are forgetting all the unelectable candidates GOP primary voters selected last year like O'Donnell and Angle, which cost them control of the Senate. The TP isn't going to vote for someone because the Establishment tells them he is electable.
| 67 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:38:19am |
re: #63 recusancy
This is true. Paul by his fans is made out to be an economic guru but he understands economics about as well as I do. Okay, I am exagerrating there but Krugman's right that Paul has this reputation as a great mind on economics but he's got no background in the field just the leading congressional proponent of Austrian School economics. And he wants to legalize weed man so he's wonderful or not :).
| 68 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:41:39am |
re: #61 mattand
Just so I understand you: When running for POTUS, Romney started bad mouthing MA while he was governor?
Yep. Sure did! Sadly, I'm having trouble finding good examples. I think I'm out of practice with Google.
| 69 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:42:40am |
re: #57 Charleston Chew
I'm not willing to give him so much credit. Romney is a spineless suck-up. The voters of Massachusetts made him a good centrist, because that's what they are.
He's so desperate for approval that if Romney came upon a group of cannibals, the first words out of his mouth would be, "Why, I love the taste of human flesh!"
Like I said before, I think a lot of people made the mistake of thinking he was George Romney Jr. when it came to politics.
| 70 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:42:56am |
re: #66 aagcobb
You are forgetting all the unelectable candidates GOP primary voters selected last year like O'Donnell and Angle, which cost them control of the Senate. The TP isn't going to vote for someone because the Establishment tells them he is electable.
the TP, despite what it thinks, doesn't own the republican party.
parties are not part of the constitution, and are not subject to any statutory requirements to nominate candidates under a strictly democratic process. both parties retain a large number of special votes that can be cast in the presidential nominating process that are reserved for office holders and other prominent members of the party. they will do their best, however, to wangle the primaries so that it looks like their candidate has the mandate of the people
they'll nominate smiley
| 72 |
Mattand Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:43:08am |
re: #68 Simply Sarah
Yep. Sure did! Sadly, I'm having trouble finding good examples. I think I'm out of practice with Google.
Given his current flip flopping, it's not too hard to believe. Still; that's nasty, with the emphasis on "ass".
| 73 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:44:38am |
| 75 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:45:04am |
Any state overly dominated by one party is not going to be a good thing, be it Arizona under the Republicans or Illinois under the Democrats.
In that sense, Mitt makes sense. But this is the sort of thing that is going reduce his already diminshing chances of being accepted by his party of choice.
| 76 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:45:15am |
re: #71 recusancy
New Sacha Baron Cohen movie He's Quaddafi.
Will totally see that- I loved Borat and Bruno.
| 77 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:45:52am |
re: #59 Obdicut
Take your time. I think in the end your point ate its own tail.
{BURP}
Yes , thats what I get for trying to revise a procedure manual, take a phone call from my wife, set up a Hi Def feed for ESPN and chat on LGF all at the same time
AMENDMENT,,
Volpe was the last "republican" (large R) that won
Weld and Celluci were only slightly to the right of Dukakis (small "r"s
iirc,, Weld was at one time being looked at as a possible VP mate for Clinton (on the advice of Stephanopoulous). Volpe was under consideration as Nixons VP in 1968,,, later became Nixons Sec of transportation
| 78 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:45:55am |
re: #72 mattand
Given his current flip flopping, it's not too hard to believe. Still; that's nasty, with the emphasis on "ass".
He also spent most of his last year as Governor outside of the state running for President.
| 79 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:46:10am |
re: #63 recusancy
He's absolutely right on that. Luap Nor fanboys pretend that he knows shit about economics, and that he's a genius. He's not. He's just old and stuck on some lousy ideas that serious economists know don't work.
What's hilarious is the Paulbot defenses of the man, like this one I read today:
While it's true that Obama would crush either Newt or Mittens, Paul would crush Obama in a general election and he knows that. There are two main reasons. One is that no Republican would vote for Obama in a general election, and however reluctant they might be, if it came down to it they would have to vote for Paul if he got the nomination. Secondly, and more importantly, Paul's anti-imperialist and anti-corporatist beliefs would capture a lot of votes from the left. Most of the people who fell for the "hope and change" propaganda (myself included) have been disillusioned. Nobody seriously believes that Obama ants to change Washington anymore.
With Paul it's different. He represents a threat not only to Obama but indeed everything Washington is about. Without corporatism there would be no lobbying. People like Newt or Abramoff wouldn't even exist.
This idiot is arguing that an anarcho-capitalist libertarian like Ron Paul is anti-corporate. ROFL. Not only does the candidate not know anything about economics, his fans don't know what he really stands for, either.
| 80 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:46:56am |
re: #70 engineer dog
Nominating Romney will mean the GOP risking a "true conservative" third-party candidate.
| 81 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:47:28am |
re: #77 sattv4u2
Volpe was the last "republican" (large R) that won
Okay, so what the hell do you mean by "large R", then? Volpe was pretty damn liberal by the modern standards of the Republicans.
| 82 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:49:12am |
re: #81 Obdicut
Okay, so what the hell do you mean by "large R", then? Volpe was pretty damn liberal by the modern standards of the Republicans.
Volpe isn't/wasn't a "modern standard" Republican
he as fairly right at that time (as compared to Weld and Celluci who were fairly left 'r"s in their time)
| 83 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:49:17am |
re: #80 ralphieboy
Nominating Romney will mean the GOP risking a "true conservative" third-party candidate.
bwahahahahah
i've been waiting for the gop to reap what they've sown for a very long time...
| 84 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:50:19am |
re: #80 ralphieboy
Nominating Romney will mean the GOP risking a "true conservative" third-party candidate.
Don't worry about that. There will be a nice funding of a left-wing "independent" candidate like Nader to run to siphon off a few percentage points from Obama to make up for it.
| 85 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:50:30am |
re: #79 Lidane
He's absolutely right on that. Luap Nor fanboys pretend that he knows shit about economics, and that he's a genius. He's not. He's just old and stuck on some lousy ideas that serious economists know don't work.
What's hilarious is the Paulbot defenses of the man, like this one I read today:
This idiot is arguing that an anarcho-capitalist libertarian like Ron Paul is anti-corporate. ROFL. Not only does the candidate not know anything about economics, his fans don't know what he really stands for, either.
I think Paul would lose worse than Mondale did in 1984. He'd be that bad of a national candidate. The funniest thing though regarding Paul fans and cognitive dissonance though was seeing some Paul fans bash McCain as "old" on facebook in 2008. I was no McCain fan but I had to be like psst your guy is older than McCain. Paul would be a terrible president I have no doubt whatsoever about that.
| 86 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:52:01am |
re: #75 ralphieboy
Any state overly dominated by one party is not going to be a good thing, be it Arizona under the Republicans or Illinois under the Democrats.
In that sense, Mitt makes sense. But this is the sort of thing that is going reduce his already diminshing chances of being accepted by his party of choice.
See, here's the funny thing. In a way, the fact that Democrats so dominate the state legislature (And the fact that Massachusetts Democrats aren't all as liberal as people assume they are) in some ways almost removes party altogether. Beacon Hill isn't exactly known for being a rubber stamp on anything. Or quick.
The main problem here is that the leaders of the chambers tend to become far too powerful and corrupt. The previous three House Speakers resigned due to various legal issues and all pleaded or were found guilty of something, in the end.
| 87 |
Mattand Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:52:55am |
re: #78 Simply Sarah
He also spent most of his last year as Governor outside of the state running for President.
I'm bracing for that with our boy Christie in 2015, assuming he wins a second term. It's possible he wouldn't seek a second term to focus solely on his (IMO) inevitable POTUS run, but I doubt it.
That said, as much as I'm not a fan, I couldn't ever see him slagging NJ for political gain. We're hated enough by the rest of the country as it is.
| 88 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:53:39am |
re: #82 sattv4u2
Yeah, whatever point you're trying to make is completely lost. Volpe fought long and hard to institute a sales tax, did all sorts of stuff to make birth control, improved access to special educational programs for minorities, etc. etc. Why to you he's a "Big R" and Celluci, who was a vehement anti-tax crusader, wasn't, I have no clue.
| 89 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:54:27am |
re: #5 Obdicut
I normally make fun of Republicans who call "RINO!" at anyone willing to work with Democrats.
But Romney clearly identified, at times, as a RINO.
Now he plays RINOINO.
| 90 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:54:53am |
re: #87 mattand
I'm bracing for that with our boy Christie in 2015, assuming he wins a second term. It's possible he wouldn't seek a second term to focus solely on his (IMO) inevitable POTUS run, but I doubt it.
That said, as much as I'm not a fan, I couldn't ever see him slagging NJ for political gain. We're hated enough by the rest of the country as it is.
That's why I think he won't be Romney's VP. I think Romney would pick my governor McDonnell because the Republicans really want to win this state back. Our gubterorial primary in 2013 will be interesting though because both the Lt Governor and AG are staunch conservatives only the AG is cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
| 91 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:55:34am |
re: #84 oaktree
Don't worry about that. There will be a nice funding of a left-wing "independent" candidate like Nader to run to siphon off a few percentage points from Obama to make up for it.
very possible
actually, though, i don't expect the Big Breakup in the republican party to come in 2012. i expect the baggers to ostentatiously hold their noses and vote for romney, since another term for barack will obviously mean that homosexual illegal aliens will take over the united states and institute sharia communism
| 92 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:55:52am |
BBIAB
Gotta go do some work for WTBS
(I wonder if Ted Turner will let me talk to Jane Fonda,,, oh ,, wait ,, nevahmind)
| 93 |
recusancy Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:56:49am |
re: #88 Obdicut
Yeah, whatever point you're trying to make is completely lost. Volpe fought long and hard to institute a sales tax, did all sorts of stuff to make birth control, improved access to special educational programs for minorities, etc. etc. Why to you he's a "Big R" and Celluci, who was a vehement anti-tax crusader, wasn't, I have no clue.
What is a small r republican anyways? Is there a definition for such a thing? Is it defined by Plato?
| 94 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:57:22am |
re: #88 Obdicut
whatever point you're trying to make is completely lost.
To you perhaps,, but not to the person I was speaking too, who understood Mass politics/ republicans of the time period
| 95 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:57:32am |
re: #91 engineer dog
These people have already demonstrated their unwillingness (and inability) to compromise. They truly would rather see ideological purity than pragmatic progress.
| 96 |
Obdicut Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:00:20pm |
re: #94 sattv4u2
Oh, I understand them too, thanks. Which is why I know that Volpe was a quite 'liberal' Republican. Comparing him with Cellucci, he's rather more liberal on taxation issues, and about equal on social stuff. If you read his list of achievements in office, you'd think he was a Democrat.
| 97 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:01:16pm |
re: #94 sattv4u2
whatever point you're trying to make is completely lost.
To you perhaps,, but not to the person I was speaking too, who understood Mass politics/ republicans of the time period
re: #96 Obdicut
Oh, I understand them too, thanks. Which is why I know that Volpe was a quite 'liberal' Republican. Comparing him with Cellucci, he's rather more liberal on taxation issues, and about equal on social stuff. If you read his list of achievements in office, you'd think he was a Democrat.
Also, to be fair, I was all of 6 years old at the time Weld was originally elected.
| 98 |
recusancy Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:01:17pm |
McCain just can't let go of his grudge:
McCain today on Obama/Iraq: "I believe that history will judge this president’s leadership with the scorn and disdain it deserves.”
| 99 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:01:41pm |
re: #95 ralphieboy
These people have already demonstrated their unwillingness (and inability) to compromise. They truly would rather see ideological purity than pragmatic progress.
that's why i have been waiting impatiently for them to either split the party in two or make it a Only Pure Wingnuts Allowed party, and therefore Break The Power Of The Republican Party Forever
| 100 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:02:34pm |
| 101 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:03:03pm |
| 102 |
aagcobb Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:04:09pm |
re: #70 engineer dog
the TP, despite what it thinks, doesn't own the republican party.
parties are not part of the constitution, and are not subject to any statutory requirements to nominate candidates under a strictly democratic process. both parties retain a large number of special votes that can be cast in the presidential nominating process that are reserved for office holders and other prominent members of the party. they will do their best, however, to wangle the primaries so that it looks like their candidate has the mandate of the people
they'll nominate smiley
We have that bet on. Something I wasn't expecting is the increasing possibility that Ron Paul will win Iowa, which is a much better scenario for Romney than Gingrich winning Iowa.
| 103 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:04:19pm |
I for one am curious about the future of the Republican party. Most young Republicans I know aren't socially conservative at all. Then again I live and go to school in a fairly liberal region but still.
| 104 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:04:34pm |
re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Says the man who picked Caribou Barbie as a running mate.
He did not pick her, he let her be picked for him in order to appease the right wing of the party, which had threatened to run a third-party candidate had he gone with his first choice for VP, Joe Lieberman.
We are likely to see a similar scenario with Mitt, should he be nominated.
| 105 |
albusteve Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:05:03pm |
re: #100 HappyWarrior
What does McCain realistically expect the president to do?
BO the Magnificent is a bus driver
| 106 |
recusancy Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:08:27pm |
Great thought piece by TNC today: A Muscular Empathy
This basic extension of empathy is one of the great barriers in understanding race in this country. I do not mean a soft, flattering, hand-holding empathy. I mean a muscular empathy rooted in curiosity. If you really want to understand slaves, slave masters, poor black kids, poor white kids, rich people of colors, whoever, it is essential that you first come to grips with the disturbing facts of your own mediocrity. The first rule is this--You are not extraordinary. It's all fine and good to declare that you would have freed your slaves. But it's much more interesting to assume that you wouldn't and then ask "Why?"
| 107 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:09:16pm |
re: #102 aagcobb
We have that bet on
yes indeed
the way i look at it, they have a choice: nominate smiley or lose bad all up and down the ticket
as i stated before: bwahahahahahah!
| 108 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:10:24pm |
re: #104 ralphieboy
He did not pick her, he let her be picked for him in order to appease the right wing of the party, which had threatened to run a third-party candidate had he gone with his first choice for VP, Joe Lieberman.
We are likely to see a similar scenario with Mitt, should he be nominated.
The buck still stops with McCain. He could have said "no".
| 109 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:13:33pm |
re: #85 HappyWarrior
I think Paul would lose worse than Mondale did in 1984. He'd be that bad of a national candidate. The funniest thing though regarding Paul fans and cognitive dissonance though was seeing some Paul fans bash McCain as "old" on facebook in 2008. I was no McCain fan but I had to be like psst your guy is older than McCain. Paul would be a terrible president I have no doubt whatsoever about that.
Mittens = tight race. Either could win.
Newt = smacked as hard as Mondale.
Paul = worst defeat in American history.
What would really be fun is if Newt gets the nomination and then Paul gets mad enough to make a 3rd party run on the Theocratic ... er... "Constitution" Party.
| 110 |
albusteve Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:13:54pm |
re: #108 oaktree
The buck still stops with McCain. He could have said "no".
can't if he wants to play the game...even McCain has his handlers
$$$
| 111 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:14:29pm |
re: #108 oaktree
The buck still stops with McCain. He could have said "no".
True, and there would have been a "True Conservative" third-party candidate. He was caught between a rock and a hard place on that one.
| 112 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:17:07pm |
re: #111 ralphieboy
True, and there would have been a "True Conservative" third-party candidate. He was caught between a rock and a hard place on that one.
True that. They could have done better than Palin though I think. Forget who else was considered.
| 113 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:21:49pm |
re: #110 albusteve
can't if he wants to play the game...even McCain has his handlers
$$$
And that is why I hold most politicians and the process in disdain. Principles and integrity go by the wayside.
| 114 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:21:51pm |
re: #108 oaktree
The buck still stops with McCain. He could have said "no".
He could have, but by that time he was looking defeat in the eye, and I suspect that there was a considerable pressure to find some magic trick, any magic trick, that would turn the tide.
She was a good gimmick. A lot of people were interested in her, myself included.
| 115 |
Mattand Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:29:49pm |
re: #90 HappyWarrior
That's why I think he won't be Romney's VP. I think Romney would pick my governor McDonnell because the Republicans really want to win this state back. Our gubterorial primary in 2013 will be interesting though because both the Lt Governor and AG are staunch conservatives only the AG is cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
VA's AG is the asshole who keeps threatening global warming scientists, correct? Charming fellow.
How does McDonnell fall on the GOP Extreme-o meter, with a 1 being Christie and a 5 being Brownback of Kansas?
| 116 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:34:34pm |
re: #115 mattand
VA's AG is the asshole who keeps threatening global warming scientists, correct? Charming fellow.
How does McDonnell fall on the GOP Extreme-o meter, with a 1 being Christie and a 5 being Brownback of Kansas?
Yeah he is. Hmmm I'd say between 3 and 4 honestly. He's not Brownback extreme I guess but he's supported some very anti choice legislation. He's disciplined though.
| 117 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:40:36pm |
re: #54 aagcobb
I use to have people jailed for not paying their child support; sometimes its amazing how fast they can come up with money they didn't have before when they are sitting in a jail cell.
But child support is not in the same category as a commercial or private debt, is it? This is a matter of child support first (whatever form it takes) and debt second.
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