The yawning chasm between the Republican establishment and the Fox News Tea Party base has never been more obvious, as National Review laments: We fear that to nominate former Speaker Newt Gingrich would be to blow the opportunity to win the White House next year.
1 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:34:45pm |
This is just getting started and I am already out of popcorn.
2 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:35:02pm |
Who do they support instead Mitt Romney? Yeah a flip flopping Patrician from Massachusetts, good luck with that, it did wonders for the 2004 for when we decided to run one against a sitting president!
| 3 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:36:43pm |
re: #2 jamesfirecat
Who do they support instead Mitt Romney? Yeah a flip flopping Patrician from Massachusetts, good luck with that, it did wonders for the 2004 for when we decided to run one against a sitting president!
And Andrew Sullivan endorsed Ron Paul today. It’s all so bizarre inside that bubble right now.
4 |
Targetpractice Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:37:48pm |
The GOP’s totally up shit creek. They nominate Newt and pretty much write off anybody who hasn’t spent the last decade with their heads up their asses. They nominate Mittens and the base will defect in mass, either to a third party or simply choosing to stay home. The only other person near them in Paul, and if he gets the nomination, Obama will be able to phone in his campaign.
5 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:38:32pm |
The yawning chasm between the Republican establishment and the Fox News Tea Party base has never been more obvious,
It isn’t like they don’t support Gingrhch’s platform. In fact, their argument is that they align precisely with the lunatic platform of all the candidates - they just think that Gingrich will fail because of identity politics.
I don’t see what yawning chasm you’re talking about.
| 7 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:39:26pm |
re: #3 JasonA
And Andrew Sullivan endorsed Ron Paul today. It’s all so bizarre inside that bubble right now.
Its probably like living inside a bugs bunny cartoon….
GOLD GOLLLDD GOOOLLLLD!
8 |
bratwurst Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:40:28pm |
Gotta love how they start their editorial by trumpeting the “uncharacteristic degree of unity within the Republican party”, then go on to demonstrate the opposite.
| 9 |
Targetpractice Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:40:52pm |
re: #5 Talking Point Detective
It isn’t like they don’t support Gingrhch’s platform. In fact, their argument is that they align precisely with the lunatic platform of all the candidates - they just think that Gingrich will fail because of identity politics.
I don’t see what yawning chasm you’re talking about.
Only real difference between Newt and Mitt, besides the latter’s religion, is that Newt sees nothing wrong with being an asshole. And that’s what the base thinks the country wants right now, an unabashed asshole who is willing to stand at the podium and tell America just how stupid they are compared to him.
| 10 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:42:33pm |
If Newt wins I might have to go back to believing in god just to have someone to pray to…
11 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:43:04pm |
re: #4 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The GOP’s totally up shit creek. They nominate Newt and pretty much write off anybody who hasn’t spent the last decade with their heads up their asses. They nominate Mittens and the base will defect in mass, either to a third party or simply choosing to stay home. The only other person near them in Paul, and if he gets the nomination, Obama will be able to phone in his campaign.
Oh, but he wouldn’t. That would be the most enjoyable possibility because Obama in campaign mode would; with a smile on his face, a gentle joke & a rhetorical flourish; shred Laup Nor on a daily basis. He’s the finest pure right wing granola - fruits, nuts & flakes all in one! - and I bet he’d have a really thin skin when push came to shove.
12 |
Interesting Times Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:44:05pm |
re: #5 Talking Point Detective
It isn’t like they don’t support Gingrhch’s platform. In fact, their argument is that they align precisely with the lunatic platform of all the candidates - they just think that Gingrich will fail because of identity politics.
It reminds me very much of the Jon Stewart bit on Pat Robertson’s (!) criticism of the GOP for being too extreme - not because he disagreed with the positions espoused, but with making them so frighteningly…obvious *_*
| 13 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:44:58pm |
re: #11 wlewisiii
Oh, but he wouldn’t. That would be the most enjoyable possibility because Obama in campaign mode would; with a smile on his face, a gentle joke & a rhetorical flourish; shred Laup Nor on a daily basis. He’s the finest pure right wing granola - fruits, nuts & flakes all in one! - and I bet he’d have a really thin skin when push came to shove.
I really, really, really hate to say this, but I actually does have some respect for Ron Paul. Not for his ideas, mind you, but for his consistency and integrity. There, I said it.
| 14 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:45:24pm |
re: #9 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
.
Only real difference between Newt and Mitt, besides the latter’s religion, is that Newt sees nothing wrong with being an asshole. And that’s what the base thinks the country wants right now, an unabashed asshole who is willing to stand at the podium and tell America just how stupid they are compared to him.
I think that’s about right. The “base” wants someone who won’t hide asshole policies. The National Review is in favor of the same asshole policies (they like Santorum for Christ’s sake) - they just want a candidate that isn’t so up front about it. Romney has a track record of making what he really supports completely indecipherable.
| 15 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:46:56pm |
re: #14 Talking Point Detective
Well, it’s more than that. Newt pissed off a lot of people back in the day. Remember, friends come and go, but enemies are forever. And Newt has more enemies than Batman.
| 16 |
Meitantei Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:47:05pm |
re: #13 JasonA
As I’ve consistently remarked about that concept regarding Paul: Rorschach was highly consistent. That didn’t mean he wasn’t holy crap insane.
17 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:48:40pm |
re: #13 JasonA
I really, really, really hate to say this, but I actually does have some respect for Ron Paul. Not for his ideas, mind you, but for his consistency and integrity. There, I said it.
Ron Paul’s consistency is the consistency of a fanatical ideologue. Not sure that’s really something to admire.
| 18 |
Targetpractice Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:48:43pm |
re: #13 JasonA
I really, really, really hate to say this, but I actually does have some respect for Ron Paul. Not for his ideas, mind you, but for his consistency and integrity. There, I said it.
Paul’s consistent in his insanity, which I guess is commendable in a weird sort of way. But I don’t think consistency is what the country is really looking for.
| 19 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:48:47pm |
re: #16 Meitantei
As I’ve consistently remarked about that concept regarding Paul: Rorschach was highly consistent. That didn’t mean he wasn’t holy crap insane.
Damn ginger kids…
| 20 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:48:49pm |
re: #8 bratwurst
Gotta love how they start their editorial by trumpeting the “uncharacteristic degree of unity within the Republican party”, then go on to demonstrate the opposite.
Except there is unity on the policies. The mainstream Republicans have completely abdicated any common sense and are fully behind pandering to the loons. They just want a candidate that isn’t to obvious about it.
That editorial is nothing other than proof that mainstream Republicans are perfectly willing to support lunatics like Santorum as long as they think he can get elected.
| 21 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:49:18pm |
re: #16 Meitantei
As I’ve consistently remarked about that concept regarding Paul: Rorschach was highly consistent. That didn’t mean he wasn’t holy crap insane.
Upding for the best Watchmen reference I’ve read yet.
| 22 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:51:02pm |
re: #15 JasonA
Well, it’s more than that. Newt pissed off a lot of people back in the day. Remember, friends come and go, but enemies are forever. And Newt has more enemies than Batman.
Yes but how many of Newts dress up in bright flashy costumes and try to take over, or at least destory the world, or at noticeable portion of it?
| 23 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:51:04pm |
| 24 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:51:50pm |
re: #13 JasonA
I really, really, really hate to say this, but I actually does have some respect for Ron Paul. Not for his ideas, mind you, but for his consistency and integrity. There, I said it.
Just because he holds onto his beliefs doesn’t mean that they are consistent. For example, there is no consistency in saying that you’re not a racist and then advocating some of the policies that Paul advocates.
25 |
Professor Chaos Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:52:11pm |
re: #9 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
It isn’t like they don’t support Gingrhch’s platform. In fact, their argument is that they align precisely with the lunatic platform of all the candidates - they just think that Gingrich will fail because of identity politics.
I don’t see what yawning chasm you’re talking about.
Only real difference between Newt and Mitt, besides the latter’s religion, is that Newt sees nothing wrong with being an asshole. And that’s what the base thinks the country wants right now, an unabashed asshole who is willing to stand at the podium and tell America just how stupid they are compared to him.
Newt Gingrich: The stupid man’s intellectual.
26 |
AlexRogan Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:52:42pm |
| 27 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:54:30pm |
re: #24 Talking Point Detective
Just because he holds onto his beliefs doesn’t mean that they are consistent. For example, there is no consistency in saying that you’re not a racist and then advocating some of the policies that Paul advocates.
I’m not saying his beliefs are consistent with each other. Just giving him the slightest pat on the back for not flip-flopping and going for political expediency.
| 28 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:54:49pm |
re: #11 wlewisiii
Oh, but he wouldn’t. That would be the most enjoyable possibility because Obama in campaign mode would; with a smile on his face, a gentle joke & a rhetorical flourish; shred Laup Nor on a daily basis. He’s the finest pure right wing granola - fruits, nuts & flakes all in one! - and I bet he’d have a really thin skin when push came to shove.
If Paul got the nomination, Stewart would stop complaining about Cain dropping out of the race.
| 29 |
Meitantei Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:54:58pm |
re: #24 Talking Point Detective
As a former Paultard, I’d observe that the consistency comes from the idea that government should step aside and let people be racists if they want to, because eventually people will realize that it isn’t efficient and so racism would end.
| 30 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:55:58pm |
re: #27 JasonA
I’m not saying his beliefs are consistent with each other. Just giving him the slightest pat on the back for not flip-flopping and going for political expediency.
Except he does go for political expediency. He supports racist policies but denies their racist foundation for political expediency. And that’s just one example.
| 31 |
Meitantei Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:56:40pm |
re: #27 JasonA
I guess. But really, after watching the Tea Party and the religious fundamentalists in the GOP and their purging of anyone who isn’t slightly in lockstep, that just gets old. I mean, at the end of the day, the guys in Congress are representatives, ergo. they represent us. If what the people believe changes, why shouldn’t the politician?
| 32 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:57:18pm |
re: #29 Meitantei
As a former Paultard, I’d observe that the consistency comes from the idea that government should step aside and let people be racists if they want to, because eventually people will realize that it isn’t efficient and so racism would end.
That line is almost as good as some I’ve heard from Trotskyites…
| 33 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:57:36pm |
re: #29 Meitantei
As a former Paultard, I’d observe that the consistency comes from the idea that government should step aside and let people be racists if they want to, because eventually people will realize that it isn’t efficient and so racism would end.
I’m aware of the rationale - but the point is that it isn’t consistent. He says that he abhors racism, but he supports racist ideology. And again, that’s just one example. Like all extremist libertarians, his ideology is completely inconsistent.
34 |
jaunte Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:59:00pm |
re: #33 Talking Point Detective
It’s hard being a ten-term, anti-government libertarian congressman.
35 |
b_sharp Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:00:17pm |
re: #29 Meitantei
As a former Paultard, I’d observe that the consistency comes from the idea that government should step aside and let people be racists if they want to, because eventually people will realize that it isn’t efficient and so racism would end.
That idea has always confused me.
People do not do what is their best interests, they do what they’ve been told/convinced is in their best interests.
| 36 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:00:23pm |
re: #34 jaunte
It’s hard being a ten-term, anti-government libertarian congressman.
Bingo. Probably the most fundamental example of his inconsistency.
| 37 |
Meitantei Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:00:36pm |
re: #32 wlewisiii
Libertarianism is pretty much the Marxism of the right-wing, so it’s not surprising. One says that the individual has no rights and society is supreme; the other says that the individual pretty much can do whatever he wants and society doesn’t even exist.
| 38 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:00:41pm |
re: #30 Talking Point Detective
Except he does go for political expediency. He supports racist policies but denies their racist foundation for political expediency. And that’s just one example.
I disagree with this part, simply because I am convinced that the man believes in what he’s saying. He’s wrong, but I believe that he believes it. And I’m not giving him a pass, and would gladly tell him all of the faults of his reasoning to his face.
| 39 |
Professor Chaos Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:01:37pm |
re: #29 Meitantei
As a former Paultard, I’d observe that the consistency comes from the idea that government should step aside and let people be racists if they want to, because eventually people will realize that it isn’t efficient and so racism would end.
I would call myself formerly Paul-curious, and that idea right there is where I got off the bus. It took our nation 75 years (not counting the many years under the Articles and the colonial period) to end slavery, another 100 for the Civil Rights Act, and I’m supposed to believe that the all-powerful free market is sufficient to deal with these kind of problems? Bullshit.
| 40 |
Meitantei Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:02:51pm |
re: #35 b_sharp
Well, those inferior people who listen to others will perish at the almighty hand of the free market while the ubermensches who know what is absolutely right will go off and form Galt’s Gulch.
/
| 41 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:02:52pm |
re: #31 Meitantei
I guess. But really, after watching the Tea Party and the religious fundamentalists in the GOP and their purging of anyone who isn’t slightly in lockstep, that just gets old. I mean, at the end of the day, the guys in Congress are representatives, ergo. they represent us. If what the people believe changes, why shouldn’t the politician?
I guess because at the end of the day we’re only human, and we perceive that as a weakness. It is what it is.
42 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:06:21pm |
I think what the GOP is going through is like my recurring anxiety dream where the ground I am trying to step on slips away.
| 43 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:07:21pm |
re: #38 JasonA
I disagree with this part, simply because I am convinced that the man believes in what he’s saying. He’s wrong, but I believe that he believes it. And I’m not giving him a pass, and would gladly tell him all of the faults of his reasoning to his face.
Do you really think that he doesn’t believe in perpetuating class inequities? Sorry, but I think he does, and he would never admit his true hatred of the “parasite class” openly - because it wouldn’t fly politically. That isn’t to say that he won’t openly advocate for some politically unpopular beliefs, obviously he does. But there are some beliefs that he hides behind political expediency. At the end of the day, he’s a politician.
| 44 |
b_sharp Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:07:51pm |
re: #40 Meitantei
Well, those inferior people who listen to others will perish at the almighty hand of the free market while the ubermensches who know what is absolutely right will go off and form Galt’s Gulch.
/
Oh gag me with a silver spoon.
(Upding for successfully combining Nietzsche and Rand.)
| 45 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:09:10pm |
re: #40 Meitantei
Well, those inferior people who listen to others will perish at the almighty hand of the free market while the ubermensches who know what is absolutely right will go off and form Galt’s Gulch.
/
Do you find a prevalence of authoritarian personalities types? I do within my husband’s Japanese family. Perhaps it is time to change the paradigm.
46 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:10:26pm |
Maureen Dowd’s OpEd in the NYT today:
The unnamed sci-fi writer with the ET elephants is Jerry Pournelle, BTW.
| 47 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:12:25pm |
re: #43 Talking Point Detective
Do you really think that he doesn’t believe in perpetuating class inequities?
I really don’t. I’m convinced that he believes in the “purity” of his ideals. The ideals are what’s important to him. And most of us sane people know that they just don’t work in the real world, but he doesn’t seem to see it.
| 48 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:12:37pm |
re: #39 Girth
I would call myself formerly Paul-curious, and that idea right there is where I got off the bus. It took our nation 75 years (not counting the many years under the Articles and the colonial period) to end slavery, another 100 for the Civil Rights Act, and I’m supposed to believe that the all-powerful free market is sufficient to deal with these kind of problems? Bullshit.
There’s a lot of underlying logic to some libertarian ideology - but when it’s taken to extremes like Paul does, the whole point is that to get there they have to turn a blind eye to the inconsistencies of their extremist beliefs. Your example is a perfect illustration. When you carry being against government overreach to the point of wanting to repeal Civil Rights policies, you show that you’re not concerned about injustice - which is supposedly the reason to be against government overreach.
| 49 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:14:54pm |
re: #47 JasonA
I really don’t. I’m convinced that he believes in the “purity” of his ideals. The ideals are what’s important to him. And most of us sane people know that they just don’t work in the real world, but he doesn’t seem to see it.
Ok. There’s no way to know for sure. But I’ve found that whenever I dig beneath the surface of extremist libertarians what I find are people who are elitists, and people who have a true hatred for those they consider to be inferior.
| 50 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:15:04pm |
Holy shit.. I just watched Herman Cain tell Barbara Walters he would like to be Secretary of Defense. She gives him an incredulous “What??”
It was glorious.
| 51 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:17:00pm |
re: #49 Talking Point Detective
Ok. There’s no way to know for sure. But I’ve found that whenever I dig beneath the surface of extremist libertarians what I find are people who are elitists, and people who have a true hatred for those they consider to be inferior.
All you need to know from me is that I will never vote for the man and will probably support his opponent in whatever office he might seek to hold. Including dogcatcher, because a Libertarian Dog Pound scares the crap out of me.
| 53 |
Professor Chaos Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:18:53pm |
re: #49 Talking Point Detective
Ok. There’s no way to know for sure. But I’ve found that whenever I dig beneath the surface of extremist libertarians what I find are people who are elitists, and people who have a true hatred for those they consider to be inferior.
Those are the urban/intellectual ones. There’s also a rural/live-off-the-grid species. They tend to be not so bright and indulge in a LOT of conspiracy theories.
| 54 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:20:27pm |
re: #48 Talking Point Detective
There’s a lot of underlying logic to some libertarian ideology - but when it’s taken to extremes like Paul does, the whole point is that to get there they have to turn a blind eye to the inconsistencies of their extremist beliefs. Your example is a perfect illustration. When you carry being against government overreach to the point of wanting to repeal Civil Rights policies, you show that you’re not concerned about injustice - which is supposedly the reason to be against government overreach.
The problem with the Russian Atheist’s basic philosophy is that it disregards one of the prime directives of the preamble: “To provide for the common good”.
When you write an anti-Constitutional screed like “The Virtue of Selfishness”, you should assume that any of your followers are, by definition, marginalized by believing in your crap. It is fundamentally seditious.
| 55 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:21:06pm |
re: #51 JasonA
Keep that mange infested mutt away from me! /
56 |
Carlos Danger Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:21:51pm |
re: #7 jamesfirecat
Nasty Canasta: “You came to make a small deposit?”
| 57 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:27:21pm |
re: #46 austin_blue
Maureen Dowd’s OpEd in the NYT today:
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
The unnamed sci-fi writer with the ET elephants is Jerry Pournelle, BTW.
Good ol’ Jerry. Happiest little authoritarian in SF. His only problem is deciding if a fascistic dictator or monarch is the best way to keep the peasants in their proper place.
It’s a good thing Niven can bring out a slightly better side to him but still…
| 58 |
Professor Chaos Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:27:52pm |
From the article:
That Gingrich now tops the polls is a tribute to his perseverance, and to Republicans’ admiration for his intellectual fecundity.
…
His character flaws — his impulsiveness, his grandiosity, his weakness for half-baked (and not especially conservative) ideas — made him a poor Speaker of the House.
Newt Gingrich: A fertile ground for shitty ideas.
| 59 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:29:25pm |
With the exception of John Huntsman, the entire slate of GOP candidates are sorry excuses for presidential contenders and it’s all of the GOP’s own damn fault. They are not they problem they are a symptom of the problem. The GOP base is crazy and so their candidates are crazy or have to try to pretend to be crazy. The GOP establishment has stoked, encouraged and exploited the fears, resentments and bigotries of their voters for 30 years and now they have a base that can’t be appealed to without using fear, resentment and bigotry. A candidate who can do that will win over the base and lose everybody else. A candidate who can’t will lose the base and thus lose the election even if they can appeal to people outside of the base. Newt, Bachmann, Paul, Santorum, Cain Gingrich and Perry could never win a general election because they are perfect embodiments of the modern GOP. It’s all their for everyone to see. They are not outliers. They are well within the mainstream of Republican thinking on most issues. Romney and Huntsman would lose because they can’t fake the crazy well enough to turn on the GOP base. They are not really members of the tribe and the base knows it. We saw this in 2008. John McCain could barely fill up an audience for his campaign stops before he added crazy in the form of Sarah Palin to the ticket. The base came out, but when most people got a good look at the crazy, they wanted no part of it. This is the monster that the National Review types created. It’s theirs and they own it. They want the base to hide the crazy, but what would the base hide what the National Review types have told them was perfectly fine? Ann Coulter is doing radio ads for Romney after saying he would lose a general election. She’s been encouraging the rabid crazy in the GOP for fun and profit for years now. Now she wants them to be sensible. Ann is full of shit. Karl Rove is full of shit. The National Review is full of shit. David Frum is full of shit. They are all full of shit. They want their most loyal voters to STFD and STFU and do what they are told after encouraging beliefs and attitudes that make rationality impossible. They are reaping what they sowed.
| 60 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:31:20pm |
re: #59 moderatelyradicalliberal
Please edit in some paragraphs. Please.
| 61 |
Professor Chaos Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:32:13pm |
| 62 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:32:46pm |
re: #59 moderatelyradicalliberal
With the exception of John Huntsman, the entire slate of GOP candidates are sorry excuses for presidential contenders and it’s all of the GOP’s own damn fault. They are not they problem they are a symptom of the problem. The GOP base is crazy and so their candidates are crazy or have to try to pretend to be crazy. The GOP establishment has stoked, encouraged and exploited the fears, resentments and bigotries of their voters for 30 years and now they have a base that can’t be appealed to without using fear, resentment and bigotry. A candidate who can do that will win over the base and lose everybody else. A candidate who can’t will lose the base and thus lose the election even if they can appeal to people outside of the base. Newt, Bachmann, Paul, Santorum, Cain Gingrich and Perry could never win a general election because they are perfect embodiments of the modern GOP. It’s all their for everyone to see. They are not outliers. They are well within the mainstream of Republican thinking on most issues. Romney and Huntsman would lose because they can’t fake the crazy well enough to turn on the GOP base. They are not really members of the tribe and the base knows it. We saw this in 2008. John McCain could barely fill up an audience for his campaign stops before he added crazy in the form of Sarah Palin to the ticket. The base came out, but when most people got a good look at the crazy, they wanted no part of it. This is the monster that the National Review types created. It’s theirs and they own it. They want the base to hide the crazy, but what would the base hide what the National Review types have told them was perfectly fine? Ann Coulter is doing radio ads for Romney after saying he would lose a general election. She’s been encouraging the rabid crazy in the GOP for fun and profit for years now. Now she wants them to be sensible. Ann is full of shit. Karl Rove is full of shit. The National Review is full of shit. David Frum is full of shit. They are all full of shit. They want their most loyal voters to STFD and STFU and do what they are told after encouraging beliefs and attitudes that make rationality impossible. They are reaping what they sowed.
Dude!
| 63 |
Professor Chaos Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:34:08pm |
| 64 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:38:08pm |
As inspired by Virginia Wolfe, as well as too many other suicides, Florence + The Machine “What The Water Gave Me”:Youtube Video
| 65 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:41:06pm |
With the exception of John Huntsman, the entire slate of GOP candidates are sorry excuses for presidential contenders and it’s all of the GOP’s own damn fault. They are not they problem they are a symptom of the problem. The GOP base is crazy and so their candidates are crazy or have to try to pretend to be crazy. The GOP establishment has stoked, encouraged and exploited the fears, resentments and bigotries of their voters for 30 years and now they have a base that can’t be appealed to without using fear, resentment and bigotry. A candidate who can do that will win over the base and lose everybody else.
A candidate who can’t will lose the base and thus lose the election even if they can appeal to people outside of the base. Newt, Bachmann, Paul, Santorum, Cain Gingrich and Perry could never win a general election because they are perfect embodiments of the modern GOP. It’s all there for everyone to see. They are not outliers. They are well within the mainstream of Republican thinking on most issues. Romney and Huntsman would lose because they can’t fake the crazy well enough to turn on the GOP base. They are not really members of the tribe and the base knows it.
We saw this in 2008. John McCain could barely fill up an audience for his campaign stops before he added crazy in the form of Sarah Palin to the ticket. The base came out, but when most people got a good look at the crazy, they wanted no part of it. This is the monster that the National Review types created. It’s theirs and they own it. They want the base to hide the crazy, but why would the base hide what the National Review types have told them was perfectly fine? Ann Coulter is doing radio ads for Romney after saying he would lose a general election. She’s been encouraging the rabid crazy in the GOP for fun and profit for years now. Now she wants them to be sensible.
Ann is full of shit. Karl Rove is full of shit. The National Review is full of shit. David Frum is full of shit. They are all full of shit. They want their most loyal voters to STFD and STFU and do what they are told after encouraging beliefs and attitudes that make rationality impossible. They are reaping what they sowed.
(for the paragraph police)
| 66 |
Professor Chaos Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:41:51pm |
re: #65 moderatelyradicalliberal
Upding for formatting.
| 67 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:44:23pm |
re: #65 moderatelyradicalliberal
With the exception of John Huntsman, the entire slate of GOP candidates are sorry excuses for presidential contenders and it’s all of the GOP’s own damn fault. They are not they problem they are a symptom of the problem. The GOP base is crazy and so their candidates are crazy or have to try to pretend to be crazy. The GOP establishment has stoked, encouraged and exploited the fears, resentments and bigotries of their voters for 30 years and now they have a base that can’t be appealed to without using fear, resentment and bigotry. A candidate who can do that will win over the base and lose everybody else.
A candidate who can’t will lose the base and thus lose the election even if they can appeal to people outside of the base. Newt, Bachmann, Paul, Santorum, Cain Gingrich and Perry could never win a general election because they are perfect embodiments of the modern GOP. It’s all there for everyone to see. They are not outliers. They are well within the mainstream of Republican thinking on most issues. Romney and Huntsman would lose because they can’t fake the crazy well enough to turn on the GOP base. They are not really members of the tribe and the base knows it.
We saw this in 2008. John McCain could barely fill up an audience for his campaign stops before he added crazy in the form of Sarah Palin to the ticket. The base came out, but when most people got a good look at the crazy, they wanted no part of it. This is the monster that the National Review types created. It’s theirs and they own it. They want the base to hide the crazy, but why would the base hide what the National Review types have told them was perfectly fine? Ann Coulter is doing radio ads for Romney after saying he would lose a general election. She’s been encouraging the rabid crazy in the GOP for fun and profit for years now. Now she wants them to be sensible.
Ann is full of shit. Karl Rove is full of shit. The National Review is full of shit. David Frum is full of shit. They are all full of shit. They want their most loyal voters to STFD and STFU and do what they are told after encouraging beliefs and attitudes that make rationality impossible. They are reaping what they sowed.
(for the paragraph police)
That’s a really succinct post. Well played, sir.
68 |
RanchTooth Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:44:38pm |
OT… I’m applying for grad school (PhD in Biophysics), and I need someone with a fresh pair of eyes to read my personal statement. Would anyone be willing to do that? I need the review to be critical and thorough, but it’s not more than 1½ pages. Any takers?
| 69 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:45:45pm |
re: #65 moderatelyradicalliberal
(for the paragraph police)
I wouldn’t have done it for them but hey, you’re a better person than I …
| 70 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:48:03pm |
| 71 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:52:54pm |
re: #68 Ranch Tooth
I’m fairly good at grammar. I would be happy to.
| 72 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:54:07pm |
I would also add that they are reaping what they sowed right around the same time that a demographic time bomb that is also of their own making is about to blow up on their asses. Namely all of those younger, browner fasting growing demographics that they GOP can’t appeal to because they’ve been too busy being the white racial resentment party.
| 73 |
RanchTooth Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:54:52pm |
re: #71 prairiefire
I’m fairly good at grammar. I would be happy to.
Rock on! Can I just email it to you? Or is there another way you’d prefer?
75 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:56:32pm |
| 76 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:58:37pm |
re: #73 RanchTooth
I think I sent you an email? I have an Apple and I’m never sure which email system it is compatible with.
| 77 |
RanchTooth Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:00:44pm |
re: #76 prairiefire
I think I sent you an email? I have an Apple and I’m never sure which email system is it compatible with.
Well, I haven’t gotten one from you. You can use this email address: konopkoam@mail.nih.gov. Send me an email, and I’ll be sure to respond. Thanks!
| 78 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:05:29pm |
79 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:08:04pm |
re: #2 jamesfirecat
Who do they support instead Mitt Romney? Yeah a flip flopping Patrician from Massachusetts, good luck with that, it did wonders for the 2004 for when we decided to run one against a sitting president!
One of the people on the debate stage tomorrow night has to be the nominee. And while Newt brings enthusiasm to many Republicans, some of those same Republicans see the polling that shows Romney more likely to win that Gingrich. The logic is ” Better to win with the mushy flip-flopper than to lose with the solid conservative.”
| 80 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:11:50pm |
re: #77 RanchTooth
Well, I haven’t gotten one from you. You can use this email address: konopkoam@mail.nih.gov. Send me an email, and I’ll be sure to respond. Thanks!
Gotdamn scientists.
austin_blue, Professional Geoscientist.
| 81 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:11:59pm |
re: #79 Dark_Falcon
One of the people on the debate stage tomorrow night has to be the nominee. And while Newt brings enthusiasm to many Republicans, some of those same Republicans see the polling that shows Romney more likely to win that Gingrich. The logic is ” Better to win with the mushy flip-flopper than to lose with the solid conservative.”
Yeah, but don’t Republicans have a history of losing with candidates that the base doesn’t like? Bush I, Dole and McCain for example? There’s an argument to be made that if your base isn’t excited about your nominee, you can’t win a general election.
| 82 |
RanchTooth Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:12:42pm |
re: #80 austin_blue
Gotdamn scientists.
austin_blue, Professional Geoscientist.
RanchTooth: Biophysicist Extraordinaire!
| 83 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:15:08pm |
re: #81 moderatelyradicalliberal
Yeah, but don’t Republicans have a history of losing with candidates that the base doesn’t like? Bush I, Dole and McCain for example? There’s an argument to be made that if your base isn’t excited about your nominee, you can’t win a general election.
True, but what of it? If your base likes someone the general public won’t like your base has to make a choice: They need to ask themselves if they want to win badly enough to settle.
| 84 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:16:02pm |
re: #79 Dark_Falcon
One of the people on the debate stage tomorrow night has to be the nominee. And while Newt brings enthusiasm to many Republicans, some of those same Republicans see the polling that shows Romney more likely to win that Gingrich. The logic is ” Better to win with the mushy flip-flopper than to lose with the solid conservative.”
Which will fly with the Republican base about as well as Kerry did with the Dem base. Plus the religion thing for the Theocrats. That’s fine by me - four more years of even a rather wishy-washy center right Obama is still better than yet another Republican disaster.
I’m really getting the feeling it’s going to be Mittens with the official nod and then Laup Nor running third party. Even money on who Newt endorses :LOL: That could be a slaughter that makes either Goldwater’s or Mondale’s look like a .1% squeaker.
| 85 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:16:32pm |
re: #79 Dark_Falcon
One of the people on the debate stage tomorrow night has to be the nominee. And while Newt brings enthusiasm to many Republicans, some of those same Republicans see the polling that shows Romney more likely to win that Gingrich. The logic is ” Better to win with the mushy flip-flopper than to lose with the solid conservative.”
There are a *whole* bunch of southern R’s who will stay home rather than vote for a Mormon. Count on it. Why do you think Fig, with all of his baggage and his lack of serious focus, is the flavor of the week? Romney has always been toast. This is what happens when your base are bigots.
86 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:16:49pm |
re: #3 JasonA
And Andrew Sullivan endorsed Ron Paul today. It’s all so bizarre inside that bubble right now.
I think he endorsed Paul over the other gop candidates, but certainly not over Obama. Still, it’s baffling, since Paul’s extremism substantively is the kind of thing Sullivan hates—on global warming, religion in politics, gay rights, etc., they are miles apart. But they both have hard-ons for balanced budgets and unfettered free markets, so I guess that’s the attraction.
| 87 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:17:33pm |
re: #82 RanchTooth
RanchTooth: Biophysicist Extraordinaire!
Very nice to meet you! Atlanta or Bethesda?
| 88 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:17:38pm |
re: #77 RanchTooth
Well, I haven’t gotten one from you. You can use this email address: konopkoam@mail.nih.gov. Send me an email, and I’ll be sure to respond. Thanks!
Hey! I have rec. failure notices for that address.
89 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:17:45pm |
re: #79 Dark_Falcon
One of the people on the debate stage tomorrow night has to be the nominee. And while Newt brings enthusiasm to many Republicans, some of those same Republicans see the polling that shows Romney more likely to win that Gingrich. The logic is ” Better to win with the mushy flip-flopper than to lose with the solid conservative.”
your base thinks Romney is a heretic, which poses a problem
The trouble with “family values”
| 90 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:19:28pm |
| 91 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:20:29pm |
re: #79 Dark_Falcon
One of the people on the debate stage tomorrow night has to be the nominee. And while Newt brings enthusiasm to many Republicans, some of those same Republicans see the polling that shows Romney more likely to win that Gingrich. The logic is ” Better to win with the mushy flip-flopper than to lose with the solid conservative.”
But isn’t that attitude exactly what the TP was formed to fight against? So that the gop wouldn’t nominate another alleged RINO in 2012, like they had with McCain?
| 92 |
RanchTooth Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:22:14pm |
re: #87 austin_blue
Very nice to meet you! Atlanta or Bethesda?
Bethesda campus, for now. Applying to grad school, so who knows where I’ll land. Boston or Cali, hopefully.
re: #88 prairiefire
Hey! I have rec. failure notices for that address.
hmmm, strange. That IS my NIH e-mail. try akonopk1@binghamton.edu
=P Very weird
| 93 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:23:14pm |
re: #91 palomino
But isn’t that attitude exactly what the TP was formed to fight against? So that the gop wouldn’t nominate another alleged RINO in 2012, like they had with McCain?
No, it was formed out of voter anger over the bailouts. Or at least that was the proximate cause of the original string of Tea Party protests.
| 94 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:23:28pm |
re: #83 Dark_Falcon
True, but what of it? If your base likes someone the general public won’t like your base has to make a choice: They need to ask themselves if they want to win badly enough to settle.
Your base is under the impression that settling is why they lose. They believe that not nomination strong or “true” conservatives is how Republicans lose elections. In their mind Romney like McCain and Dole, is a loser.
95 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:25:29pm |
re: #79 Dark_Falcon
The logic is ” Better to win with the mushy flip-flopper than to lose with the solid conservative.”
This is cute, on what planet is Gingrich a solid conservative? Solid conservatives take serious offense at Newt’s endorsement of Dede Scozzafava, his promoting Cap & Trade, supporting an insurance mandate, and acknowledging AGW.
I think you are confusing Newt’s belligerence in defense of his current views with actual consistency, because the fact is that he’s every bit as much of a flip-flopper as Romney. Many people have noted that Newt is what dumb people think a smart guy sounds like, I’m not sure that’s the entirety of his appeal to Republicans though. The difference between Gingrich and Romney is that Gingrich comes off as more plausibly having deceived himself, whereas Mitt’s opportunism is less convincing and it’s harder for him to sell the idea that he authentically believes his own bullshit.
| 96 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:28:01pm |
re: #92 RanchTooth
Bethesda campus, for now. Applying to grad school, so who knows where I’ll land. Boston or Cali, hopefully.
re: #88 prairiefire
hmmm, strange. That IS my NIH e-mail. try akonopk1@binghamton.edu
=P Very weird
I’ve got a lot of family in greater DC. Pretty area, but hellaciously expensive. I’ll be in town on January 2nd to plant my mom on top of my dad in the Arlington bone orchard.
| 97 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:29:29pm |
re: #93 Dark_Falcon
No, it was formed out of voter anger over the bailouts. Or at least that was the proximate cause of the original string of Tea Party protests.
The proximate cause was the swearing in of a black President, which the bailouts preceded. Unfortunately this motive doesn’t focus test too well so they erected the whole pretense about spending.
| 98 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:30:18pm |
re: #95 goddamnedfrank
This is cute, on what planet is Gingrich a solid conservative? Solid conservatives take serious offense at Newt’s endorsement of Dede Scozzafava, his promoting Cap & Trade, supporting an insurance mandate, and acknowledging AGW.
I think you are confusing Newt’s belligerence in defense of his current views with actual consistency, because the fact is that he’s every bit as much of a flip-flopper as Romney. Many people have noted that Newt is what dumb people think a smart guy sounds like, I’m not sure that’s the entirety of his appeal to Republicans though. The difference between Gingrich and Romney is that Gingrich comes off as more plausibly having deceived himself, whereas Mitt’s opportunism is less convincing and it’s harder for him to sell the idea that he authentically believes his own bullshit.
Ding ding ding!!
| 99 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:32:11pm |
re: #97 goddamnedfrank
The proximate cause was the swearing in of a black President, which the bailouts preceded. Unfortunately this motive doesn’t focus test too well so they erected the whole pretense about spending.
Got Proof? Because that gets said alot, but it is seldom supported. It seems to reply on a preexisting conviction that conservatives are racists.
| 100 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:32:22pm |
re: #93 Dark_Falcon
No, it was formed out of voter anger over the bailouts. Or at least that was the proximate cause of the original string of Tea Party protests.
Which the TP blamed largely on RINO’s, despite the participation of Bush and Cheney (“It’s Herbert Hoover time if we don’t pass TARP”). One of the TP’s primary goals all along was to purge the moderate Republicans.
Tea Partiers are far more likely to look at McCain and Romney as RINOs. Hence the support for Gingrich, who they see as a true conservative and a fighter.
The bailouts pissed a lot of people off, but they began well before Obama’s inauguration, under a different administration. The biggest impetus for the TP was hysteria over Obama. If you don’t recognize that as a major element, you really haven’t been paying attention.
| 101 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:32:48pm |
re: #97 goddamnedfrank
The proximate cause was the swearing in of a black President, which the bailouts preceded. Unfortunately this motive doesn’t focus test too well so they erected the whole pretense about spending.
Well Frank, after his Coronation, he did bail out the car companies, which resulted in the ruinati… oh, wait…
| 102 |
Interesting Times Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:35:44pm |
re: #95 goddamnedfrank
whereas Mitt’s opportunism is less convincing and it’s harder for him to sell the idea that he authentically believes his own bullshit.
This smile conveys a warmth and sincerity rather lacking in this one.
| 103 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:38:49pm |
re: #99 Dark_Falcon
Got Proof? Because that gets said alot, but it is seldom supported. It seems to reply on a preexisting conviction that conservatives are racists.
No. The Republican southern base, the old Dixiecrats, are racists.
Duh. It has nothing to do with conservatives.
I can have a debate with a conservative. Not so much with Dixiecrats.
With them, flying a confederate swastika is Heritage, not Hate.
But that’s only true if your Heritage includes thinking of n*****s as either chattel slaves or second-class Americans.
Pardon my French.
| 104 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:40:54pm |
re: #99 Dark_Falcon
Got Proof? Because that gets said alot, but it is seldom supported. It seems to reply on a preexisting conviction that conservatives are racists.
TARP was signed by Bush, yet the first TP protest didn’t occur until after Obama was sworn into office.
It strains all credulity to believe that people so legitimately incensed by the bailouts would wait until a new President took office to vent their rage over the issue in protest. Then there were the signs, documented here extensively, which betrayed the true motive.
| 105 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:43:21pm |
re: #103 austin_blue
No. The Republican southern base, the old Dixiecrats, are racists.
Duh. It has nothing to do with conservatives.
I can have a debate with a conservative. Not so much with Dixiecrats.
With them, flying a confederate swastika is Heritage, not Hate.
But that’s only true if your Heritage includes thinking of n*****s as either chattel slaves or second-class Americans.
Pardon my French.
It’s OK to object to the Stars and Bars, but I’d ask that it not be called a “swastika”. Despite its defense of slavery, the Confederacy was orders of magnitude less bad than Nazi Germany.
| 106 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:44:02pm |
re: #104 goddamnedfrank
TARP was signed by Bush, yet the first TP protest didn’t occur until after Obama was sworn into office.
It strains all credulity to believe that people so legitimately incensed by the bailouts would wait until a new President took office to vent their rage over the issue in protest. Then there were the signs, documented here extensively, which betrayed the true motive.
Exactly, the proof mentioned is staring us in the face, in the form of thousands of posts over the last few years right here at LGF.
| 107 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:44:29pm |
And so, goodnight my friends. Sweet scaly cold-blooded dreams.
| 108 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:45:27pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
It’s OK to object to the Stars and Bars, but I’d ask that it not be called a “swastika”. Despite its defense of slavery, the Confederacy was orders of magnitude less bad than Nazi Germany.
Well, that’s a glowing endorsement.
109 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:46:41pm |
re: #104 goddamnedfrank
TARP was signed by Bush, yet the first TP protest didn’t occur until after Obama was sworn into office.
It strains all credulity to believe that people so legitimately incensed by the bailouts would wait until a new President took office to vent their rage over the issue in protest. Then there were the signs, documented here extensively, which betrayed the true motive.
Yeah it was like after years of dismissing concerns about the deficit that the Republicans suddenly grew concerned about the debt when Obama took office. I’m sorry but I can’t take that party seriously when its last Vice President once said “deficits don’t matter” and thought it good policy to have two wars(not arguing their justified or not) while cutting taxes.
| 110 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:48:57pm |
Peter Gabriel is celebrating the 25th anniversary of “So”petergabriel.com
He would like input!
| 111 |
Interesting Times Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:49:08pm |
re: #103 austin_blue
No. The Republican southern base, the old Dixiecrats, are racists.
There’s nothing racist about this. Nothing at all. Only a racist would see that in the first place.
| 112 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:52:01pm |
I don’t know if I’d compare the CSA to Nazi Germany but they definitely were a bunch of monsters. Try viewing them how as a 1860’s African American. This is a regime that as founded to protect the institution that made your family second class citizens. And captured black union soldiers were treated horribly. If they weren’t executed on site, they would be sent back into slavery. I have no patience as a Virginian I’ll add for the CSA. It was a happy day when the CSA fell.
| 113 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:52:33pm |
re: #109 HappyWarrior
Yeah it was like after years of dismissing concerns about the deficit that the Republicans suddenly grew concerned about the debt when Obama took office. I’m sorry but I can’t take that party seriously when its last Vice President once said “deficits don’t matter” and thought it good policy to have two wars(not arguing their justified or not) while cutting taxes.
I can’t take the gop seriously anymore either. Their response to Obama’s mere existence was so over the top from the very beginning, filled with paranoia and hyperbole about some foreign “-ism” that he would singlehandedly force on us.
And the congressional gop’s utter refusal to work with Obama or give him credit or anything is the worst we’ve seen, a bad precedent to set.
| 114 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:52:57pm |
re: #108 palomino
Well, that’s a glowing endorsement.
Not an endorsement at all. But but I feel that to use the Nazi association cavalierly cheapens it and fails to capture the sheer evil of Hitler and his regime. It’s born of a desire for accuracy, no more, no less.
| 115 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:54:15pm |
re: #110 prairiefire
Peter Gabriel is celebrating the 25th anniversary of “So”[Link: petergabriel.com…]
He would like input!
So is a great album. But I like his two prior albums better, the 3rd untitled one and Security. They had a rougher edge and were a little less pop.
| 116 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:54:26pm |
re: #113 palomino
I can’t take the gop seriously anymore either. Their response to Obama’s mere existence was so over the top from the very beginning, filled with paranoia and hyperbole about some foreign “-ism” that he would singlehandedly force on us.
And the congressional gop’s utter refusal to work with Obama or give him credit or anything is the worst we’ve seen, a bad precedent to set.
Yeah I’ve seen some of the ads. Trying to emphaize how they’re American. Hint hint voters I’m a real American and the president is not. It’s disgusting. I thought the Clinton hatred I saw in the 90’s was bad but this is just pathetic. Many of them can’t even bring themselves to admit Obama loves this country too which is sad.
| 117 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:58:15pm |
re: #112 HappyWarrior
I don’t know if I’d compare the CSA to Nazi Germany but they definitely were a bunch of monsters. Try viewing them how as a 1860’s African American. This is a regime that as founded to protect the institution that made your family second class citizens. And captured black union soldiers were treated horribly. If they weren’t executed on site, they would be sent back into slavery. I have no patience as a Virginian I’ll add for the CSA. It was a happy day when the CSA fell.
As a Texan I couldn’t agree with you more about the CSA. I still remember all the talk I heard as a kid of the “South rising again.” People just loved the romance of the CSA and Rebels. My attitude was: What the hell is wrong with you people? Why do you have fondness for an extinct country built around slavery?
| 118 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:01:56pm |
re: #114 Dark_Falcon
Not an endorsement at all. But but I feel that to use the Nazi association cavalierly cheapens it and fails to capture the sheer evil of Hitler and his regime. It’s born of a desire for accuracy, no more, no less.
Yeah, I was just kidding. “Less bad than the Nazis” is the kind of phrase you don’t hear too often, since basically everything is less bad than Nazis.
Unfortunately our discourse today does have a lot of the opposite rhetorical construction: “X is acting like a Nazi, or Y is as bad as Hitler, or Z is bringing America closer to Nazi Germany.”
| 119 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:02:19pm |
re: #117 palomino
As a Texan I couldn’t agree with you more about the CSA. I still remember all the talk I heard as a kid of the “South rising again.” People just loved the romance of the CSA and Rebels. My attitude was: What the hell is wrong with you people? Why do you have fondness for an extinct country built around slavery?
I still can’t get over how on MLK Day in my state we celebrate Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee. They were great generals but they also committed treason technically but because we romanticize the CSA, we celebrate them instead of criticizing them. And before I hear they did it for their states, there were many people who chose to remain loyal to the Union. That’s actually why we have West Virginia. But yeah I knew some people who romanticized the CSA growing up. Didn’t get it. I’m always proud of the fact my one relative in the war was a Union man.
| 120 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:02:50pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
Despite its defense of slavery, the Confederacy was orders of magnitude less bad than Nazi Germany.
This is really only a factor of the comparative levels of technology. A Confederacy with access to 1930’s-40’s level mechanized industry would have had little need for its slaves, and likely attempted to eradicate them.
| 121 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:02:56pm |
re: #117 palomino
I just heard “the south will rise again” and “keep your powder dry” from a guy behind me in the line at the post office. He is a jewelry store owner in my area. The emotionalists will have to have something to get themselves through the next election.
| 122 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:07:00pm |
re: #116 HappyWarrior
Yeah I’ve seen some of the ads. Trying to emphaize how they’re American. Hint hint voters I’m a real American and the president is not. It’s disgusting. I thought the Clinton hatred I saw in the 90’s was bad but this is just pathetic. Many of them can’t even bring themselves to admit Obama loves this country too which is sad.
And even the supposedly sane Republican, Romney, has just adopted the slogan “Keep America American.” Right on the heels of his claims that Obama constantly apologizes for the US and doesn’t love the country as much as he does. If Romney is willing to flip flop on virtually any issue, he’s certainly willing to play the race/xenophobia card.
| 123 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:11:24pm |
re: #120 goddamnedfrank
This is really only a factor of the comparative levels of technology. A Confederacy with access to 1930’s-40’s level mechanized industry would have had little need for its slaves, and likely attempted to eradicate them.
True, but it would have been hard for the South to develop to that tech level had it won the Civil War. It’s worth remembering just how much the plantation system and its dominance over the South held the southern states back. Without having lost the Civil War, the South might have found itself stagnating into a backwater (even more than it ended up a backwater in real life).
| 124 |
palomino Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:12:49pm |
re: #121 prairiefire
I just heard “the south will rise again” and “keep your powder dry” from a guy behind me in the line at the post office. He is a jewelry store owner in my area. The emotionalists will have to have something to get themselves through the next election.
Yeah, this next election is gonna be ugly. In 2008, I thought it couldn’t get worse next time. I was wrong.
I guess sometimes the losers in war just can’t get over it. Some southerners are still obsessed with the CW, while most of the rest of the country doesn’t even think much about it, except that it’s ancient history.
125 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:13:08pm |
re: #121 prairiefire
I just heard “the south will rise again” and “keep your powder dry” from a guy behind me in the line at the post office. He is a jewelry store owner in my area. The emotionalists will have to have something to get themselves through the next election.
Lol I’d like to see the dumb, confederate conservatives ever try it.
Stupid con bigots.
| 126 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:13:38pm |
Goodnight, all. Sorry to just up and leave, but I’m fading fast.
| 127 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:14:26pm |
re: #124 palomino
Yeah, this next election is gonna be ugly. In 2008, I thought it couldn’t get worse next time. I was wrong.
I guess sometimes the losers in war just can’t get over it. Some southerners are still obsessed with the CW, while most of the rest of the country doesn’t even think much about it, except that it’s ancient history.
Pfft, butthurt white conservatives you have with you, always.
| 128 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:14:33pm |
| 129 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:15:56pm |
re: #125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol I’d like to see the dumb, confederate conservatives ever try it.
Stupid con bigots.
The Occupy folks should all wear Union caps while occupying.
| 130 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:16:58pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
It’s OK to object to the Stars and Bars, but I’d ask that it not be called a “swastika”. Despite its defense of slavery, the Confederacy was orders of magnitude less bad than Nazi Germany.
You’re possibly the most unqualified person on earth to be judging one form of fascism against another.
| 131 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:18:07pm |
re: #130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
You’re possibly the most unqualified person on earth to be judging one form of fascism against another.
DF does makes things interesting here.
| 132 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:20:02pm |
re: #124 palomino
Yeah, this next election is gonna be ugly. In 2008, I thought it couldn’t get worse next time. I was wrong.
I guess sometimes the losers in war just can’t get over it. Some southerners are still obsessed with the CW, while most of the rest of the country doesn’t even think much about it, except that it’s ancient history.
Obsessed to the point where it’s like they wish the CSA had succeeded. I think the CSA was doomed for failure. The funny thing is to me is there was a lot of infighting because Jefferson Davis apparently didn’t respect states rights.
| 133 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:20:15pm |
re: #99 Dark_Falcon
Got Proof? Because that gets said alot, but it is seldom supported. It seems to reply on a preexisting conviction that conservatives are racists.
Your own posts attest to a whites-first, anti-arab, anti-black, bigoted, ignorant mentality. Do you think it’s a coincidence you’re also a self-identified, militant “conservative”?
I don’t.
| 134 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:21:55pm |
re: #131 boxhead
DF does makes things interesting here.
Heh, if one considers typical white conservative ignorance and bigotry interesting, sure.
To me, it’s run-of-the-mill.
| 135 |
jvic Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:24:45pm |
1. It may have been a Lizard who remarked that the Republican field is weak because the 2006/8 elections knocked down some Presidential timber. Sounds plausible. (Not to ask what principled conservative would enter politics while the GOP was impeaching a successful President and supporting The Most Brilliant Man Harriet Miers Ever Met.)
Heckuva job, George.
2. I keep repeating that it takes something close to a perfect storm to topple an incumbent President. IMO Obama’s chances are much better than the GOP thinks or the betting odds indicate.
3. In fact I think that someone from this weak field of Republicans will be elected only if the country thinks there is nothing to lose. Assume that November brings us an economy in full relapse or worse. Who would have a better chance: a sequester-the-profits-and-socialize-the-losses finance guy like Romney—basically George Bush 3.0, perhaps competent this time—or a loose cannon like Gingrich? People just might cross their fingers in one hand, hold their nose with the other, and vote for Gingrich with the gripping hand.
| 136 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:27:23pm |
re: #134 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Heh, if one considers typical white conservative ignorance and bigotry interesting, sure.
To me, it’s run-of-the-mill.
I understand…. But myself, from time to time I enjoy debating with, what I would consider, an unarmed debater, such as DF. And other times, I find I have little patience for it. For example, this morning I got an email from a person I know who is usually not this bad. It was some lame joke with the punch line calling Obama a n*****. I kind of snapped on him.
| 137 |
jvic Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:43:09pm |
re: #96 austin_blue
I’ve got a lot of family in greater DC. Pretty area, but hellaciously expensive. I’ll be in town on January 2nd to plant my mom on top of my dad in the Arlington bone orchard.
Condolences.
| 138 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:43:59pm |
There is a great discussion going on Sionainn’s page.
And how is everyone this very early morning/very late evening?
139 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:52:10pm |
polo shirts with bad c++ jokes
oh fercrissakes
| 141 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:55:46pm |
143 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:58:31pm |
re: #141 JasonA
Well, endorsed for the Republican primary. Not over Obama, mind you.
So Sully wants the GOP to implode in the general election by making Luap Nor the nominee?
Not that I’m complaining about that, mind you. The GOP desperately needs to get curbstomped again to finally force the leadership to get serious instead of catering to the nutjobs and religious fanatics. I just don’t get what the hell Sullivan is thinking.
| 144 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:58:45pm |
145 |
Firstinla Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:58:49pm |
All the GOP candidates should be required to bring a long form birth certificate with them before the next debate. Nobody’s asking for birth certificates?
//
| 146 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:59:43pm |
re: #138 ggt
There is a great discussion going on Sionainn’s page.
And how is everyone this very early morning/very late evening?
doing cool
| 147 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:00:28pm |
re: #143 Lidane
So Sully wants the GOP to implode in the general election by making Luap Nor the nominee?
Not that I’m complaining about that, mind you. The GOP desperately needs to get curbstomped again to finally force the leadership to get serious instead of catering to the nutjobs and religious fanatics. I just don’t get what the hell Sullivan is thinking.
I think part of his rationale is that he wants Huntsman to remain viable for 2016, so he doesn’t want him to get curbstomped at this point. And take him away and what choice is really left for him…?
| 148 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:02:09pm |
re: #140 Lidane
WTF. Why?
I think it is because, even though RP has beliefs that AS does not endorse, AS believes that RP does have a few good ideas and the rest of the bunch has nothing.
| 149 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:02:55pm |
re: #148 boxhead
I think it is because, even though RP has beliefs that AS does not endorse, AS believes that RP does have a few good ideas and the rest of the bunch has nothing.
RP is consistent.
People seem to like that.
| 150 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:04:36pm |
re: #149 ggt
RP is consistent.
People seem to like that.
I don’t recall him ever being accused of flip flopping. Crazy, yes, flip flopping, no. :)
| 151 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:05:36pm |
re: #143 Lidane
So Sully wants the GOP to implode in the general election by making Luap Nor the nominee?
Not that I’m complaining about that, mind you. The GOP desperately needs to get curbstomped again to finally force the leadership to get serious instead of catering to the nutjobs and religious fanatics. I just don’t get what the hell Sullivan is thinking.
Another point: Sully wants to shove a knife into Fox’ chest. He strongly resents their complete dismissal of Paul. Dig deep and you’ll how much he loathes Rupert’s role as Kingmaker. I can’t say I blame him.
152 |
darthstar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:05:49pm |
You know what? I’m glad I’m not Mitt Romney.
or Newt.
| 154 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:06:53pm |
| 155 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:07:25pm |
re: #152 darthstar
You know what? I’m glad I’m not Mitt Romney.
or Newt.
Hmm, both are rich….. If I were one of them, I’d change my ways and battle for good. Real good, not FOX Tea Party good. heh.. then I’d buy a pony… har
| 156 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:08:02pm |
re: #152 darthstar
You know what? I’m glad I’m not Mitt Romney.
or Newt.
I wouldn’t want to be either of them, but I sure as shit wouldn’t complain about having their bank accounts.
| 157 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:08:16pm |
re: #155 boxhead
Hmm, both are rich… If I were one of them, I’d change my ways and battle for good. Real good, not FOX Tea Party good. heh.. then I’d buy a pony… har
I’ll bet you 10,000 bucks that you wouldn’t. What do you say? $10,000?
| 158 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:08:28pm |
A libertarian friend on facebook posted an article criticizing Chris Wallace saying the Iowa Caucuses are invalidated if Paul wins. Cannot stand Paul but that’s just crap and a refusal to admit that Paul’s extreme views draw voters like they turn this voter away.Honestly part of me thinks it would be interesting to see what would happen if Paul won Iowa. I don’t think he has a shot for the nomination but he’s got a good shot at having real political capital.
| 159 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:08:42pm |
re: #157 JasonA
I’ll bet you 10,000 bucks that you wouldn’t. What do you say? $10,000?
You are ON! LOL
| 160 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:09:30pm |
re: #158 HappyWarrior
A libertarian friend on facebook posted an article criticizing Chris Wallace saying the Iowa Caucuses are invalidated if Paul wins. Cannot stand Paul but that’s just crap and a refusal to admit that Paul’s extreme views draw voters like they turn this voter away.Honestly part of me thinks it would be interesting to see what would happen if Paul won Iowa. I don’t think he has a shot for the nomination but he’s got a good shot at having real political capital.
Invalidated? No, I’m pretty sure he gets to keep those delegates if he wins…
| 161 |
darthstar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:09:52pm |
| 162 |
Four More Tears Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:10:19pm |
re: #158 HappyWarrior
A libertarian friend on facebook posted an article criticizing Chris Wallace saying the Iowa Caucuses are invalidated if Paul wins. Cannot stand Paul but that’s just crap and a refusal to admit that Paul’s extreme views draw voters like they turn this voter away.Honestly part of me thinks it would be interesting to see what would happen if Paul won Iowa. I don’t think he has a shot for the nomination but he’s got a good shot at having real political capital.
The mischievous part of me loves the message that a Paul victory would send to Conservatism.
| 163 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:21pm |
re: #162 JasonA
The mischievous part of me loves the message that a Paul victory would send to Conservatism.
oh yeah…. it would be fun. and maybe the GOP would be forced to stop backing people more crazy than RP.
| 164 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:23pm |
re: #160 JasonA
Invalidated? No, I’m pretty sure he gets to keep those delegates if he wins…
Discredit not invalidate but yeah.
165 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:43pm |
re: #149 ggt
RP is consistent.
People seem to like that.
Given the way the rest of them seem to shift their beliefs routinely to match whatever’s fashionable or expedient, it is rather refreshing that Paul seems to have a consistent set of beliefs. That those beliefs are weird, stupid, and somewhat evil is a separate issue.
| 166 |
darthstar Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:11:49pm |
re: #162 JasonA
The mischievous part of me loves the message that a Paul victory would send to Conservatism.
The only message a Paul victory would send is that Iowa is truly irrelevant.
| 167 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:12:47pm |
The thing is there’s always been a part of hte GOP base drawn to Paul’s mindset and worldview. There’s a reason why Pat Buchanan had some small successes. Combine that with Paul claiming he’s for “freedom” all the time then you got a winner.
| 168 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:15:22pm |
I’ve had fantasies about RP winning —not that I want that. What I would like is the ripples it would send thru the GOP.
More like they’d be hit by a truck.
| 169 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:15:28pm |
re: #108 palomino
Well, that’s a glowing endorsement.
If you’re waiting for D_F to endorse the Confederacy, you may be waiting a while. You may have noticed, he…er…doesn’t care for them much.
;)
| 170 |
engineer cat Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:16:43pm |
warhorse
looks like it weighs a million tons
| 171 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:18:34pm |
| 172 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:19:03pm |
Time to sleep it off.
Have a great one all!
| 173 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:19:38pm |
174 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:21:56pm |
I’m drifting off slowly but I’ll leave you guys with a lizard playing a video game:
| 175 |
boxhead Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:22:47pm |
All these ridiculous positions that the GOP and their ilk hold reminds me of a quote from a great author…
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
- Isaac Asimov
176 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:30:03pm |
As if the guys over at Fox News weren’t enough of a laughing stock today, Bill O’Reilly chimes in with this complete fail at Civics on last night’s “Factor”:
O’Reilly surprised to learn U.S. gov’t. controls the military
Somehow in the mind of Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly, the United States military is not controlled by its government.
In a discussion on government involvement on health care Tuesday evening, The O’Reilly Factor suddenly had an interesting and peculiar back and forth with Alan Colmes on the government’s overall effectiveness.
“Can they run the military?” Colmes asked.
O’Reilly replied: “They can’t run the military because it’s military controlled, not civilian.”
“That’s government run, it’s still the government doing it,” Colmes countered.
“But the Pentagon calls the shots,” he said.
“But the commander-in-chief is a civilian, the government runs the military well,” Colmes insisted.
“That is wrong,” O’Reilly said. “The Pentagon calls the shots on how the military operates. The Pentagon is military people
.”
| 178 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:03:36am |
re: #176 RadicalModerate
Could he really be that stupid, haha
179 |
sagehen Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:06:24am |
I love their take on Perry: “conservatism should not choose a standard-bearer who would have to spend much of his time untying his own tongue.”
| 180 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:19:59am |
re: #176 RadicalModerate
O’Reilly surprised to learn U.S. gov’t. controls the military
Could someone please send a copy of this book to Fox News? They seem to need one desperately.
| 181 |
sagehen Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:39:16am |
re: #175 boxhead
All these ridiculous positions that the GOP and their ilk hold reminds me of a quote from a great author…
here’s another one:
“It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.”
(arthur c. clarke)
| 182 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:40:40am |
re: #181 sagehen
here’s another one:
“It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.”
(arthur c. clarke)
depends if that intelligence helps with survival.
| 183 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:46:04am |
re: #182 boxhead
depends if that intelligence helps with survival.
and the world condition the humans are in
| 184 |
engineer cat Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:51:42am |
intelligence
it seems to have fallen off the edge of the flat earth
| 185 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 12:55:19am |
re: #184 engineer dog
intelligence
it seems to have fallen off the edge of the flat earth
it just needs a better PR guy.
186 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 1:32:04am |
re: #175 boxhead
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
- Isaac Asimov
My take on it is that this cult of ignorance grew out of an inferiority complex towards Europe, which was ahead of us culturally and technologically until the 20th century.
We saw ourselves as rustic and self-educated, but somehow morally superior to the decadent, effete and self-destroying Europeans.
I appreciate our folksy, down-to-earrth approach, but not at the cost of rejecting science and education.
| 187 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 1:34:33am |
re: #181 sagehen
here’s another one:
“It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.”
(arthur c. clarke)
a tribute to bob the blob:
| 189 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 1:53:44am |
re: #186 ralphieboy
hmm… But how would have the uneducated even have heard about Europe. OK, maybe they heard some things. The rich and powerful in USA did not suffer from ignorance. The literal Bible believers would have also contributed to an anti science stance. The country folks knew how to produce food. The city folks not so much. Country folks were practical. Not stupid, in general. Today’s problem is that some many people think University educated people are biased against USA or the country folks, etc.
IMHO, this phenomenon gained strength GWB. When I was a youth, the GOP was the intellectual Party. I watched Buckley with my dad. He was great. What we have today is a manufactured distrust of education created by various factions for the benefit of themselves at the cost of the rest of us. And not only has education been marginalized, “different” people have been targeted. City folk have been targeted. Anything or any group that could raise a voice of concern over the vast money grab by corps were and are targeted.
Money MUST be removed from politics. Campaigns MUST be funded 100% by public funds.
arrrrrr
| 190 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 1:54:52am |
191 |
EdDantes Thu, Dec 15, 2011 1:56:19am |
If you vote for Newt Gingrich he’ll cheat on you.
| 192 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 1:57:12am |
re: #191 EdDantes
If you vote for Newt Gingrich he’ll cheat on you.
They all do. Their true mistresses are those that donate the big cash.
| 193 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 1:58:36am |
re: #189 boxhead
We were still very aware of Europe in our nation’s early years, being surrounded by British, French and Spanish colonies. And European intellectual thought, science, fashion and politics were determining factors in our own culture.
And although the American ideal of rugged individualism and self-reliance is a great thing, but we must not overlook the fact that even the most individual of accomplishments has a collective aspect to it.
194 |
researchok Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:00:10am |
re: #191 EdDantes
OK, that is really funny.
| 195 |
researchok Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:04:02am |
re: #189 boxhead
The problem is the SCOTUS has on more than one occasion that money in campaigns is free speech.
| 196 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:04:57am |
I am sure that Newt will do his darndest to live up to his fidelity pledge, but at some point a major crisis will arise and fill him with patriotic passion, forcing him to stray…
| 197 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:06:40am |
re: #195 researchok
The problem is the SCOTUS has on more than one occasion that money in campaigns is free speech.
yep…. and that corps are people. Those are both toxic ideas and must be changed. Will they? …………
| 199 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:08:19am |
re: #198 EdDantes
He’s just that patriotic.
I regret that I have only one wife to betray for my country!
| 200 |
researchok Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:14:58am |
re: #197 boxhead
As a rule, the only money we want out of politics is the ‘other guy’s’ money.
Dirty money is the only real bipartisan value in Washington.
| 201 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:16:59am |
re: #200 researchok
As a rule, the only money we want out of politics is the ‘other guy’s’ money.
Dirty money is the only real bipartisan value in Washington.
I still believe all must go. It is arrogant for me to think my money is pure and others’ are not.
| 202 |
researchok Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:19:56am |
re: #201 boxhead
We live in imperfect world.
On the other hand, money can and does buy awareness. Lots of good political causes have been addressed because of well spent money.
| 203 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:20:43am |
re: #202 researchok
OK… as long as that money does not find its way into a politician’s pocket.
| 204 |
researchok Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:24:07am |
re: #203 boxhead
OK… as long as that money does not find its way into a politician’s pocket.
Good luck with that.
//
| 205 |
EdDantes Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:25:27am |
re: #196 ralphieboy
I am sure that Newt will do his darndest to live up to his fidelity pledge, but at some point a major crisis will arise and fill him with patriotic passion, forcing him to stray…
Now that I think about it, there is a thin line between patriotism and just gettin’ tail.
| 206 |
boxhead Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:28:48am |
207 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:30:50am |
re: #193 ralphieboy
Individualism is a concept that only makes sense in the context of a community. A group coming together and being strong because of all their various attributes is the quintessential story of humanity.
I don’t understand why people are so afraid of group belonging. We spend our lives lonely and yearning for connection to others.
Unless you’re an anti-social personality disorder type, that is.
| 208 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:36:11am |
re: #207 Obdicut
A sense of community also does not go together well with a fundamentalist world view that leads one to scorn and reject all those who do not share your views and beliefs.
| 209 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 2:53:58am |
re: #208 ralphieboy
It’s funny; one of the main fires behind Protestantism, original Lutheran/Calvisinist etc. doctrine, was that man needed no intermediary, no hierarchy for his experience with god. Man needed no church, no community of other religious people in order to experience God. It’s a little messy, since they believed that man did, in fact, need the Bible, the revealed word of God, but since the didn’t believe it was created by man, but rather by God, it keeps that interpersonal relationship going.
So you have this format for no community being necessary in the practice of religion. And yet all those Protestant groups did, in fact, form communities, churches. There was no theological need for it, that had been wiped away.
We cannot escape our communal nature. We should, instead, embrace it.
210 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:00:14am |
On the frivolity front, Callista Gingrich’s hair now has its own Facebook page.
The harder the hair, the tougher the woman.
Yikes! I’d cast her as the evil alien queen in a sci-fi movie. I’ll bet she carries a live tarantula in a jeweled box in her purse.
| 211 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:04:48am |
re: #209 Obdicut
Yes, but those were seen as groups of equals, without the sort of hierarchy that characterized the Roman Catholic church; it had leaders, but they were elected.
And it was an important step towards the notion of modern democracy. If all people are equal before God, then it would follow that they should be equal before the law.
212 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:07:04am |
Frank says:Anyone who is disturbed by the idea of newts in a nightclub is potentially dangerous.
Good morning.
| 213 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:13:24am |
re: #211 ralphieboy
Yes, but those were seen as groups of equals, without the sort of hierarchy that characterized the Roman Catholic church; it had leaders, but they were elected.
And it was an important step towards the notion of modern democracy. If all people are equal before God, then it would follow that they should be equal before the law.
Ah, except even in that community was the idea of the Elect; that there was a separation between the damned and the saved. At first, they held that it was not something a mortal men could tell, but soon the Prosperity gospel took hold and people began to believe that a man’s riches on earth indicated his holiness.
So it may have been an important step towards democracy, but it was also an important step towards the idea that mere accumulation of wealth was virtuous.
| 214 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:13:41am |
The lad searches the night for his newts…
| 215 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:15:21am |
re: #213 Obdicut
Yes, they did a great job of finding a way to stuff a camel through the eye of a needle. Yes, wealth can be an outward sign of virtue, but by that reckoning, the Pope must have been the most virtuous man in the world…
| 216 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:21:14am |
Shifting from the ridiculous to the profound, I finally watched Letters from Iwo Jima the other night. What an excellent movie, even-handed without false equivalency. The Japanese soldiers were not cartoon villains but it was clear they served a monumentally evil and callous regime.
| 217 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:26:45am |
re: #216 Shiplord Kirel
I liked that one even better than its counterpart “Flags of our Fathers”.
219 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:45:10am |
Dreamed I went on vacation. I hate vacations. Woke up at 4am in a cold sweat.
Is that fucked up or what?
| 220 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:49:08am |
221 |
rwdflynavy Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:51:28am |
re: #220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
S’up Admiral?
Last day of school. Then I’m off until 3 Jan, so pretty good! How bout you?
| 222 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:57:43am |
re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Dreamed I went on vacation. I hate vacations. Woke up at 4am in a cold sweat.
Is that fucked up or what?
Not really; almost every time I dream of being on vacation, it involves trying to make some flight or train connection that never seems to work out.
| 223 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:58:14am |
re: #221 rwdflynavy
I’m a struggling salesperson who wishes folks’d get consuming again.
| 224 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:59:44am |
re: #223 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I’m a struggling salesperson who wishes folks’d get consuming again.
We need moar moola first.
| 225 |
rwdflynavy Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:01:05am |
| 226 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:01:39am |
re: #222 ralphieboy
Over the past 20 years, I’ve traveled extensively for work. Not accustomed to “on purpose idle time”. So, going to a hotel; eating in restaurants; flying on airplanes… too much like work.
I had a nice vacation this summer. Wife and daughter went to Florida, I got to stay home. I still worked, but stayed in town. It was AWESOME!
| 227 |
EdDantes Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:04:25am |
re: #226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Sounds like the movie, “The seven Year Itch.”
| 228 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:04:38am |
re: #225 rwdflynavy
I know!! We could tax teh 1% moar!!!
I’d be happy with the payroll tax cut extension.
But no.
The GOP doesn’t like tax cuts for poor sods like me.
| 229 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:06:17am |
re: #224 Varek Raith
I’m seeing folks with plenty of money. They’re scared to spend it.
We’re going to get a non consuming, simpler America. Whether we want it or not.
Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.
| 230 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:07:39am |
re: #229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I’m seeing folks with plenty of money. They’re scared to spend it.
We’re going to get a non consuming, simpler America. Whether we want it or not.
Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.
And those eggs are always the poorest amongst us.
Funny that.
/Yeah, I’m bitter
:P
231 |
RogueOne Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:08:13am |
re: #228 Varek Raith
They passed the extension. They also passed the unemployment extension and the doc fix. I have a hard time believing the dems will let the pipeline be the deal breaker.
| 232 |
rwdflynavy Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:08:36am |
re: #229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I’m seeing folks with plenty of money. They’re scared to spend it.
We’re going to get a non consuming, simpler America. Whether we want it or not.
Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.
It’s called Ricardian equivalance.
It’s an economics thing. I learned it in my economics class this semester. Economics.
//
| 234 |
RogueOne Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:09:26am |
Bill Bennett is on Morning Joe hammering Newt. I think the republican guard is getting very concerned with the outside possibility that Newt might actually pull this off.
| 235 |
rwdflynavy Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:10:18am |
re: #231 RogueOne
They passed the extension. They also passed the unemployment extension and the doc fix. I have a hard time believing the dems will let the pipeline be the deal breaker.
If they do it will be because the GOP were obstructionists!!!
//
| 236 |
rwdflynavy Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:11:03am |
re: #233 Varek Raith
ZOMBIEDOG!!!
[Link: www.cnn.com…]
Pretty sure that is one of the signs of the Apocalypse.
//
| 237 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:11:23am |
re: #231 RogueOne
They passed the extension. They also passed the unemployment extension and the doc fix. I have a hard time believing the dems will let the pipeline be the deal breaker.
I’m just tired of the freaking games.
That pipeline will create 6000 jobs. 90% of them in Canada. Most of that dirty oil will be refined and sold overseas.
WHEEE
| 238 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:12:04am |
re: #232 rwdflynavy
You cannot simultaneously complain about America’s consuming nature and the poor state of the Economy.
But, I’m sure folks will figure out how.
| 239 |
rwdflynavy Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:12:58am |
re: #237 Varek Raith
I’m just tired of the freaking games.
That pipeline will create 6000 jobs. 90% of them in Canada. Most of that dirty oil will be refined and sold overseas.
WHEEE
Canada = American jobs!!!! They’ll be able to afford more good old USA healthcare!
//
| 240 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:13:12am |
re: #232 rwdflynavy
I was told there would be no math.
| 241 |
rwdflynavy Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:13:45am |
re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You cannot simultaneously complain about America’s consuming nature and the poor state of the Economy.
But, I’m sure folks will figure out how.
Sure you can, it’s called being a hypocrite.
| 242 |
RogueOne Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:15:12am |
re: #237 Varek Raith
I think it’s going to create more than 1000 jobs in this country and our economy still runs on oil. I’d rather get it from the nice Canadians than somewhere else where the money is used to fund governments that aren’t as accommodating to the local populace.
Either way, the dems got 3 things they wanted. They’re going to build the pipeline either way and they know it. This is their opportunity to tell their base they were pushed into it. Take the deal, bitch about it, and move on.
| 243 |
RogueOne Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:17:42am |
I remember the good ol’ days when we were arguing about HCR and I kept getting told the doc fix was gone…
| 245 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:22:17am |
| 246 |
Targetpractice Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:25:37am |
By now, we know how the final act of this play goes: Senate Dems, fearful of being seen as approving of allowing the payroll tax cut to eclipse, pass the bill and send it to Obama, who steps back from his veto threat to sign it into law. Then we spend the next month being told about how we should be happy that the payroll tax cut was extended, no matter how far backwards the Dems bent to get it.
| 247 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:25:49am |
re: #238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You cannot simultaneously complain about America’s consuming nature and the poor state of the Economy.
They’re connected. Any economy that’s based on more and more consumption is going to have booms and busts and failures built into it.
A sustainable economy— just like a sustainable ecology— is the only possible final form. We can’t go on forever using up exhaustible resources. That’s the definition of it. Eventually, all the palladium will get used up, all they helium will be used, all the copper will be used. Until we develop replicators, we’re highly bound by the scarcity of materials.
All this would be true even if AGW wasn’t barreling down on us like hell’s own irony. We couldn’t just keep making iPhones forever.
| 248 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:27:16am |
re: #242 RogueOne
I’d rather get it from the nice Canadians than somewhere else where the money is used to fund governments that aren’t as accommodating to the local populace.
Oil is fungible. Doesn’t matter where you buy it, the level of consumption is what drives the price. The Saudi’s don’t give shit if we buy our oil from Canada or anywhere else, it doesn’t affect how much money they make off their oil one whit.
Why this has to get repeated over and over I have no clue.
| 250 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:29:07am |
re: #243 RogueOne
I remember the good ol’ days when we were arguing about HCR and I kept getting told the doc fix was gone…
Who told you that? The doc fix is separate issue from health care reform; it existed before it. I remember you not grasping that fact.
| 251 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:29:29am |
Whoo, think that’s my first double post! Hit ‘post it’ while new comments were being loaded.
| 252 |
Targetpractice Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:31:41am |
re: #248 Obdicut
Oil is fungible. Doesn’t matter where you buy it, the level of consumption is what drives the price. The Saudi’s don’t give shit if we buy our oil from Canada or anywhere else, it doesn’t affect how much money they make off their oil one whit.
Why this has to get repeated over and over I have no clue.
Not to mention that the high-sulfur, viscous sludge that is tar sands oil has to be cut with sweeter crude just to move through the pipes, which means (yes, believe it or not) using oil from those less reputable nations to pump the shit to our refineries.
| 253 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:37:44am |
re: #246 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Right now, the GOP is threatening a government shut down in order to not tax millionaires and increase taxes on those who work.
To a certain extent, I think the Democrats are letting this happen so that they can campaign on the above line.
At least that would have some sort of purpose.
| 254 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:41:53am |
re: #247 Obdicut
All this would be true even if AGW wasn’t barreling down on us like hell’s own irony. We couldn’t just keep making iPhones forever.
Who’ this “we”? You mean China?
/
| 255 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:44:56am |
re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Who’ this “we”? You mean China?
/
That ol’ human race thing is what I mean, to which you and I belong, for our sins.
Alright, speaking of sins, I need to shake off sloth and do enormous amounts of work today. And for the next few days.
| 256 |
Targetpractice Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:45:13am |
re: #253 Obdicut
Right now, the GOP is threatening a government shut down in order to not tax millionaires and increase taxes on those who work.
To a certain extent, I think the Democrats are letting this happen so that they can campaign on the above line.
At least that would have some sort of purpose.
I’d heard the GOP’s already squealing like stuck pigs, declaring that they had a “handshake agreement” that the spending bill would pass without resistance if the payroll extension were approved.
| 257 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:49:36am |
re: #256 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
They can argue and whine all they want about what really happened here, but modern politics is about perception, and the GOP has certainly managed to create the perception that they are ready to screw the middle class to protect the rich.
| 258 |
Targetpractice Thu, Dec 15, 2011 4:57:49am |
re: #257 ralphieboy
They can argue and whine all they want about what really happened here, but modern politics is about perception, and the GOP has certainly managed to create the perception that they are ready to screw the middle class to protect the rich.
Unfortunately, the GOP may be able to counter that accusation:
Reuters: Democrats mull dropping millionaire surtax
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama and fellow Democrats on Wednesday signaled a willingness to drop a proposed surtax on millionaires, but remained at odds with Republicans in efforts to extend an expiring payroll tax cut for 160 million Americans.
Obama discussed abandoning the surtax, which Republicans have denounced as a levy on “job creators,” at a meeting with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and other top Senate Democrats at the White House, party aides said.
One aide said Democrats have not offered to drop the surtax, but have made it clear to Republicans that they are willing to do so to renew the tax cut set to expire on December 31.
| 259 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:08:52am |
Gosh. Another sitcom where a couple’s dating and one says “I love you” and the other one doesn’t know how to reply so they say, “Thank You”. Plot device I’ve seen ten times in the past five years. It’s a sign that:
A. I watch too much TV.
B. No one has an original idea anymore.
C. They use the same scripts from show to show to save money.
D. All of the above.
| 260 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:13:48am |
Whoo hoo! I just figured out a way to do this project that will save me hours and hours of work. Plus, it’s by using a feature I always hated before, so I finally have a use for something that only annoyed me previously. It’s like if Carrot Top turned out to be a master carpenter and showed up to donate his time to building a house I designed.
| 261 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:17:22am |
| 262 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:18:35am |
Morning Lizardim. Hope this cold and semi-snowy morning finds the Lizardim comfortably warm. I have one bone to pick with the linked statement from the article - the GOP has no shot at the White House next year, no matter who they nominate. Let’s face it: Anyone moderate enough to be viable in the general election would be too liberal for the Tea Party base and would be savaged into irrelevancy. I know NJD will post polling figures to the contrary, but I am relatively confident that the election results will bear my theory out.
263 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:18:39am |
re: #260 Obdicut
Stop procrastinating and get the work done already
/
| 264 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:19:14am |
re: #261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Carrot Top is only good insofar as he’s a great thing for Norm MacDonald to make fun of.
Not only will this method save me hours of time, it’ll probably save about 40 man-hours of audio and QA time.
| 266 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:23:15am |
re: #263 Shropshire_Slasher
Stop procrastinating and get the work done already
/
These are the days I remember the great parts about being an independent contractor who bills per project and not per hour. I figure out a way to get stuff done in fewer hours, I actually have to work fewer hours but get paid the same.
It’s a win/win. Seriously, this project was getting me down— I was already up to 1000 lines in one tab of the excel document we use as a pseudocode repository, and each of those lines represented something I’d have to physically match up with its intended target. And I had ten more tabs to fill out. I was going to be able to do it, but it would have been sheer tedium.
Now I have about 1/4 of the work and I get to go through it with a warm smug feeling of superiority.
| 267 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:23:49am |
But yes, I still need to do it, so back in I go.
| 268 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:25:40am |
re: #264 Obdicut
Can you still bill for it like a good attorney?
Attorney goes to heaven. Is arguing with St. Pete that he is only 38 years old. St. Pete is saying he’s 85. St. Pete double checks “the book” and says, “Oh. We were counting by billable hours.”.
269 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:45:10am |
re: #255 Obdicut
That ol’ human race thing is what I mean, to which you and I belong, for our sins.
Alright, speaking of sins, I need to shake off sloth and do enormous amounts of work today. And for the next few days.
That explains why sloths have claws so that they can hang on.
270 |
iossarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:51:31am |
How’s your pay increase this year?
| 271 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:52:18am |
On the subject of using sloths in gaming this gave me a chuckle when it came out. :)
Good morning Lizards by the way. A busy morning since I get to do a few reports, do some sequel work, and get a SSIS package working to output data in XML format. Wheee!!!!
| 272 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:52:59am |
re: #271 oaktree
On the subject of using sloths in gaming this gave me a chuckle when it came out. :)
[Link: www.giantitp.com…]
Good morning Lizards by the way. A busy morning since I get to do a few reports, do some sequel work, and get a SSIS package working to output data in XML format. Wheee!!!
Ooh, SSIS. Good luck with that. You’ll need it.
| 273 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:56:04am |
re: #272 thedopefishlives
Ooh, SSIS. Good luck with that. You’ll need it.
The SSIS won’t be a major issue I think. I have an existing package as a template and already did a feasibility test using some code from an internet search that showed how to get XML output to work in SQL 2005 without requiring a bolt-on. And otherwise the package is fairly simple since by convention here we do the heavy lifting and data conversion work in the SQL procedure that gathers the data. (This comes from having SQL resources and only 2-3 of us who work with SSIS much.)
| 274 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 5:59:52am |
re: #273 oaktree
I suppose if you’ve already done the proof of concept, it might not be that bad. I’ve long since learned that SQL Server can be a bit of a mixed bag, depending on what you’re trying to do with it.
| 275 |
Targetpractice Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:01:38am |
re: #270 iossarian
How’s your pay increase this year?
Damn those welfare queens for driving America into the ground!
| 276 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:03:00am |
re: #274 thedopefishlives
I suppose if you’ve already done the proof of concept, it might not be that bad. I’ve long since learned that SQL Server can be a bit of a mixed bag, depending on what you’re trying to do with it.
Yes. And debugging SSIS packages can be a massive pain since the diagnostic messages are sometimes very unhelpful or actually triggered in a part of of the processing far distant from what turns out to be the actual problems. Combined with the fact that I only work on the packages now and then and am thus rusty when we need to add or modify an interface. Complicated by the fact that the Autosys scheduler that runs the packages (via .bat files) is just production and doesn’t have a QA scheduler for testing. :p
| 277 |
iossarian Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:05:18am |
re: #275 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
It’s the fault of all those grifters who don’t pay federal income tax.
278 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:05:22am |
re: #270 iossarian
How’s your pay increase this year?
Just goes to show—the American worker thugs are lazier and stupider this year, while the Masters of the Universe have improved their leadership and innovation.
| 279 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:07:28am |
re: #276 oaktree
Me, I’m having fun debugging Windows Services. In case you didn’t know, you can’t just run a service from the debugger; you have to install it via an installer, run it from the management console, and then attach a debugger to it before the code executes. Creates a fun little game where you’re frantically trying to find the process in the list so you can attach to it before it executes the method to be debugged.
280 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:07:43am |
re: #270 iossarian
How’s your pay increase this year?
They are the Job Creators! They have earned it!
Oh wait, how many jobs have they created? None, you say?
| 281 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:08:30am |
re: #280 Alouette
They are the Job Creators! They have earned it!
Oh wait, how many jobs have they created? None, you say?
Hey Alouette, while you’re here, did you find out exactly what happened to Zedushka’s car? I presume he was OK after that whole incident.
| 282 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:11:30am |
re: #280 Alouette
Oh wait, how many jobs have they created? None, you say?
At least the reports from the last hour show the new job losses are bleeding a bit slower:
| 283 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:13:06am |
re: #281 thedopefishlives
Oh wait, how many jobs have they created? None, you say
Hey Alouette, while you’re here, did you find out exactly what happened to Zedushka’s car? I presume he was OK after that whole incident.
The engine blew up, that’s all we know.
Now should we replace it with another pile of junk, or stimulate the economy and save jobs by leasing a new vehicle?
| 284 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:14:25am |
re: #283 Alouette
The engine blew up, that’s all we know.
Now should we replace it with another pile of junk, or stimulate the economy and save jobs by leasing a new vehicle?
Balance your family fleet—one new-tech reliable car to rescue the piece of crap.
| 285 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:15:08am |
re: #283 Alouette
I’m not sure if I’m going to lease or buy my next vehicle. We’re going to replace the Mrs. Fish’s personal conveyance with a family car, so it’s going to be a bit of a hefty upgrade.
| 286 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:15:22am |
Lovely. Network just bounced. Twice.
Need to add more capybaras to the treadmill.
| 287 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:15:59am |
re: #284 Decatur Deb
Balance your family fleet—one new-tech reliable car to rescue the piece of crap.
And put an “Our other car is a tow truck” bumper sticker on the runner. ;)
| 288 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:17:10am |
re: #287 oaktree
And put an “Our other car is a tow truck” bumper sticker on the runner. ;)
Heh. We got wife’s new van when we learned the names of the AAA tow operator’s wife and kids.
| 289 |
Eventual Carrion Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:21:45am |
re: #29 Meitantei
As a former Paultard, I’d observe that the consistency comes from the idea that government should step aside and let people be racists if they want to, because eventually people will realize that it isn’t efficient and so racism would end.
How did that work out in the time span between the Emancipation Proclamation and the Civil Rights act?
| 290 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:24:24am |
re: #284 Decatur Deb
Balance your family fleet—one new-tech reliable car to rescue the piece of crap.
| 291 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:24:30am |
re: #285 thedopefishlives
I’m not sure if I’m going to lease or buy my next vehicle. We’re going to replace the Mrs. Fish’s personal conveyance with a family car, so it’s going to be a bit of a hefty upgrade.
Hehe. I remember car change-overs when I was growing up.
About when my mother started going back to college for her master’s degree (kids were 6, 10, 11 at the time) my father lost his “toy” (a TR3) for the family getting a commuting car (an Opel) for my mother to use to run from Richmond to Muncie. The other car in the family was a station wagon.
The station wagon/sub compact combo stayed in play roughly until all the children were in (or done) with college. At that point the sub-compact went to compact and the station wagon turned into a pick-up truck. And later the pick-up truck got larger in order to be able to pull a decent sized trailer (using a 5th wheel) since my parents traveled a lot.
292 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:26:01am |
Vandals torch second Palestinian mosque
Vandals set fire to a mosque in the West Bank on Thursday and defaced it with Hebrew graffiti a day after a similar arson attack on a Jerusalem mosque. Suspicion fell on Jewish extremists widely assumed to be behind stepped-up violence against Palestinians and the Israeli military.
The governor of the Palestinian city of Ramallah, Laila Ghanam, said arsonists doused the mosque in the village of Burqa with gasoline, then set it on fire.
The Hebrew words for “war” and “Mitzpe Yitzhar” were painted in red on a wall, and the Israeli military said carpets and chairs were burned.
Israel is going to crack down hard on these guys.
| 293 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:26:14am |
re: #289 RayFerd
How did that work out in the time span between the Emancipation Proclamation and the Civil Rights act?
That was “eventually”
| 295 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:26:44am |
re: #290 Alouette
Good price and mileage numbers, if everything else fits. Don’t know much about New Testament cars.
| 296 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:28:39am |
re: #292 Killgore Trout
Vandals torch second Palestinian mosque
Israel is going to crack down hard on these guys.
When things start calming down too much, someone has to pick up the slack.
| 297 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:31:00am |
re: #295 Decatur Deb
Good price and mileage numbers, if everything else fits. Don’t know much about New Testament cars.
What the heck is a “New Testament” car?
| 298 |
Eventual Carrion Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:35:29am |
re: #50 JasonA
Holy shit.. I just watched Herman Cain tell Barbara Walters he would like to be Secretary of Defense. She gives him an incredulous “What??”
It was glorious.
Like a five year old asking for an 8 cylinder Dodge Charger for his birthday. Once he got it, it would be in a ditch in 5 minutes.
299 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:36:12am |
re: #292 Killgore Trout
Israel should have been cracking down hard against the extremists, but Netenyahu’s coalition includes the political parties that give these same extremists cover.
The Palestinians have a legitimate grievance with these latest series of attacks against mosques, unlike say when Israel plans to rebuild the Mughrabi bridge to the Temple Mount (that project is in limbo due to ongoing concerns about how and where to rebuild the path that leads from the Kotel up to the Temple Mount and a temporary bridge has safety concerns of its own). The IDF and Israeli security has to do more.
| 300 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:37:33am |
re: #297 Alouette
It’s one where you say a bunch of hail Mary’s and hope that the car gets you from A to B. Exhibit A: Yugo. 90% of Chrysler products.
| 301 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:39:42am |
OK, question for the Lizard Collective Mind.
Co-worker got a bottle of Brazilian booze distilled from sugar cane as a Secret Santa gift. (Cachaca?) About 80 proof.
Any advice about this stuff I should pass on to him?
| 302 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:44:46am |
re: #301 oaktree
OK, question for the Lizard Collective Mind.
Co-worker got a bottle of Brazilian booze distilled from sugar cane as a Secret Santa gift. (Cachaca?) About 80 proof.
Any advice about this stuff I should pass on to him?
It’s basically Rum. There’s a popular drink with limes and sugar where you macerate (love that word) the limes and sugar in the bottom of the glass, add ice, then fill with Cachaca. Delish.
maria-brazil.org
| 303 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:47:28am |
re: #302 darthstar
Ah, the famous mojito. Take the rum, add sugar, a citrus, and a herb (mint is the most commonly used variety), and you’ve got yourself one heck of a delicious drink. Bottoms up!
| 304 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:47:54am |
The GOP consistently aiming at older voters is now biting them in the ass:
Gingrich Running Strong With Traditionally Reliable Voters
Newt Gingrich’s current lead in Republican preferences for the GOP presidential nomination is largely due to particularly high support from the types of Republicans who might be expected to turn out heavily in the upcoming primaries — older Republicans and core identifiers with the Republican Party. Roughly 40% of Republicans aged 55 and older as well as core Republicans (as opposed to independents who lean Republican) and conservatives currently favor Gingrich for the nomination. This contrasts with 21% to 23% of each group backing Mitt Romney.
Also, the regional breakdowns are telling. Mitt’s only advantage over Newt is on the East Coast. The Midwest, West, and South all trend to Newt, with the South favoring Gingrich by more than 2-to-1. At the rate things are going, the GOP will have their Not Romney for the nominee.
| 305 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:48:45am |
re: #301 oaktree
OK, question for the Lizard Collective Mind.
Co-worker got a bottle of Brazilian booze distilled from sugar cane as a Secret Santa gift. (Cachaca?) About 80 proof.
Any advice about this stuff I should pass on to him?
Speaking of gifts…I want to give all the engineers on my team a gift. I have 8 or 9 of them. Any ideas? These are all software QA people. I’d like to keep it under $20 each. Any cool gadgets/toys out there making the rounds this year…mind-bending stuff, puzzles, etc. are always good.
| 306 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:49:07am |
re: #302 darthstar
It’s basically Rum. There’s a popular drink with limes and sugar where you macerate (love that word) the limes and sugar in the bottom of the glass, add ice, then fill with Cachaca. Delish.
[Link: www.maria-brazil.org…]
Some interesting options mentioned on the wiki page. It sounds like the alcohol is similar to, but yet not quite rum. Possibly a bit rougher since I think he got a bottle that is not the heavily aged stuff.
| 307 |
Vicious Babushka Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:51:25am |
re: #305 darthstar
Speaking of gifts…I want to give all the engineers on my team a gift. I have 8 or 9 of them. Any ideas? These are all software QA people. I’d like to keep it under $20 each. Any cool gadgets/toys out there making the rounds this year…mind-bending stuff, puzzles, etc. are always good.
You can buy those classic old wooden cube brainteasers at Marshall’s for about $5.
| 308 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:52:50am |
re: #305 darthstar
Speaking of gifts…I want to give all the engineers on my team a gift. I have 8 or 9 of them. Any ideas? These are all software QA people. I’d like to keep it under $20 each. Any cool gadgets/toys out there making the rounds this year…mind-bending stuff, puzzles, etc. are always good.
USB nerf rocket launchers and trebuchet kits?
| 309 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:53:28am |
re: #305 darthstar
Speaking of gifts…I want to give all the engineers on my team a gift. I have 8 or 9 of them. Any ideas? These are all software QA people. I’d like to keep it under $20 each. Any cool gadgets/toys out there making the rounds this year…mind-bending stuff, puzzles, etc. are always good.
Check the holiday guide at ThinkGeek. It might help:
310 |
Eclectic Cyborg Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:53:47am |
I think this election will be a true test of how much the right really hates Obama. In fact, it will be a test of how the whole country feels about him because the right is going to have to resort to the strategy of “our guy may not be great, but Obama is way worse.”
| 311 |
prairiefire Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:54:43am |
“New Dog Democrat” says there are enough signatures for the Gov. Walker recall:newdogdemocrat.com
| 312 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:54:50am |
re: #308 oaktree
[Link: www.thinkgeek.com…]
USB nerf rocket launchers and trebuchet kits?
A USB nerf rocket launcher would totally make my Christmas. The main owner of my company has a fully automatic Nerf gun that he periodically wields in the office. It would be nice to have some form of retaliation for those times when I happen to be there.
| 313 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:55:00am |
re: #308 oaktree
[Link: www.thinkgeek.com…]
USB nerf rocket launchers and trebuchet kits?
When I started with this company, nearly everyone in the building had a Nerf bazooka, repeating dart rifle, or rocket. Apparently cube warfare ran its course.
| 314 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 6:58:49am |
re: #309 Lidane
Check the holiday guide at ThinkGeek. It might help:
[Link: www.thinkgeek.com…]
Great…now I have to buy all of my nephews magnetic accelerator cannons.
thinkgeek.com
| 316 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:07:21am |
re: #314 darthstar
Ooooohhh…. That’s ripe for some tweaking too. Wrap the magnets with electric induction coils and ramp up the current. Railgun here I come! /only slightly
| 317 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:07:55am |
re: #315 Lidane
Or a Tardis to store their stuff; it’s bigger on the inside after all.
| 318 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:10:33am |
re: #315 Lidane
Your co-workers are all QA, right? Buy them sonic screwdrivers:
[Link: www.thinkgeek.com…]
Yes, but I’ve got a multicultural team ranging from early 20s to one guy who’s just over 50. I think I’ll venture to a (shudder) mall and go to the Imaginarium store (they haven’t gone out of business I hope)…shit…where is the closest mall to me?
| 319 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:11:16am |
re: #311 prairiefire
“New Dog Democrat” says there are enough signatures for the Gov. Walker recall:[Link: www.newdogdemocrat.com…]
Well, that didn’t take long.
| 320 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:12:34am |
re: #316 lawhawk
Oooohhh… That’s ripe for some tweaking too. Wrap the magnets with electric induction coils and ramp up the current. Railgun here I come! /only slightly
Turning slightly dangerous toys into lethal ones. Lovely!
| 321 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:13:00am |
Former French President Jacque Chirac, was found guilty of embezzlement but will get a 2-year suspended sentence. No jail time.
| 322 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:13:23am |
re: #313 darthstar
When I started with this company, nearly everyone in the building had a Nerf bazooka, repeating dart rifle, or rocket. Apparently cube warfare ran its course.
Could go Old School and buy them all a Slinky. Better if there is a useful staircase to race them on - though that might raise a safety issue.
(I found a metal Slinky I used to have in my office cubicle and gifted it to a friend’s 3-year-old daughter. Once her mother showed her how to make it run down the stairs she played with it for hours. I apologized to them for bringing something in that would make their child play on the stairs and they responded “she plays on them all the time anyways.”)
| 323 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:16:59am |
re: #322 oaktree
I like Slinkys too much. We’re on one floor. And having my employees play in the elevator shaft is frowned upon.
| 324 |
Eventual Carrion Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:18:04am |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
It’s OK to object to the Stars and Bars, but I’d ask that it not be called a “swastika”. Despite its defense of slavery, the Confederacy was orders of magnitude less bad than Nazi Germany.
Because they only burned the bodies after they had been hung and were already dead?
| 325 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:23:02am |
re: #324 RayFerd
Because they only burned the bodies after they had been hung and were already dead?
Because they were American atrocities. USA! USA! Bad, yes, but not Nazi bad.
| 326 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:29:13am |
Okay…everyone’s off eating their Wheaties…I’ll go run the dogs.
| 327 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:29:46am |
re: #326 darthstar
Okay…everyone’s off eating their Wheaties…I’ll go run the dogs.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!
328 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:37:48am |
Ron Paul is stepping up to challenge some real problems facing America…
At a recent campaign stop in Iowa, Rep. Ron Paul garnered applause for a remark about legalization.
No, not marijuana: This time the Texas congressman was talking about legalizing the sale of raw milk.
Amid talk of overregulation and the government’s alleged meddling in personal affairs, Paul promised change. “I’m all for raw milk,” the GOP presidential candidate said. “I think you should make your own choice on whether you drink raw milk or not.”
Heh.
| 330 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 7:55:12am |
re: #328 NJDhockeyfan
How very French of Paul to consider the most pressing issue the legalization of raw milk.
| 331 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:00:07am |
re: #328 NJDhockeyfan
Ron Paul is stepping up to challenge some real problems facing America…
Heh.
Can the insurance companies in turn survey people about consuming raw milk and then potentially raise their premiums in turn based on the answer?
And deny them coverage if they lie about it?
Because why should the rest of us be saddled with the cost of their additional risk?
/(sorta)
| 332 |
Eventual Carrion Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:07:17am |
re: #202 researchok
We live in imperfect world.
On the other hand, money can and does buy awareness. Lots of good political causes have been addressed because of well spent money.
Helps move a lot of cocaine to where you need it to go also.
| 333 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:09:06am |
Anonymous - #OpB: AMERICA IS IN DANGER!
Youtube Video
Gather an army of people. Flood the streets. If police gives you violence, give them tenfold of that. OCCUPATIONS ARE OVER. REAL REVOLUTION IS HERE. THE FORMER UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT SHALL BE DESTROYED!
| 334 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:13:38am |
| 335 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:13:41am |
That drone the Iranians “captured”? Yeah, it’s a fake
The unmanned spy plane recently captured by Iran appears to be a fake, according to a former Pentagon official.
The former official, who saw video footage of the drone on display in Iran, said not only is it the wrong color, but also the welds along the wing joints do not appear to conform to the stealth design that helps it avoid radar detection. The official requested anonymity because he is not authorized to release information on the drone matter.
Iran said it managed to gain control of the RQ-170 Sentinel electronically and guide it down as it flew over its airspace.
The former official also questioned why the landing gear was covered up when displayed by the Iranian military. In the footage, the drone’s underside is obscured with banners that read: “We’ll trample America underfoot” and “The U.S. cannot do a damn thing.”
Now obviously, this is only one unnamed “former Pentagon official”, and so I take it with a grain of salt. However, I was more amused that the Iranians claimed to have hacked the drone and brought it in for a landing, rather than shooting it down (which is far more plausible).
| 336 |
jaunte Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:17:14am |
re: #335 thedopefishlives
I always thought that color was strange.
| 337 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:18:31am |
Ooh. This promises to be fun:
National Review Devoting Entire Issue To Bashing Newt
It wasn’t enough for the National Review’s editors to just write a scathing anti-endorsement warning Republican voters that Newt Gingrich is a general election Hindenburg. No, they’re devoting an entire issue to tearing down the frontrunner.
The cover depicts Gingrich as Marvin The Martian, a shot at his longtime obsession with big-ticket space exploration projects, and features a cover story by Mark Steyn on his “Big Government Follies.”
If Newt wins the nomination, the DNC won’t have to do anything except point at the National Review and thank them for doing all the work.
| 338 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:19:13am |
re: #335 thedopefishlives
That drone the Iranians “captured”? Yeah, it’s a fake
Now obviously, this is only one unnamed “former Pentagon official”, and so I take it with a grain of salt. However, I was more amused that the Iranians claimed to have hacked the drone and brought it in for a landing, rather than shooting it down (which is far more plausible).
From what I’ve read the plane may have made a hard belly landing destroying the underside and blowing open some of the joints. The Iranians patched it up with duct tape, epoxy and repainted it for the photo session.
| 339 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:22:00am |
re: #338 Killgore Trout
From what I’ve read the plane may have made a hard belly landing destroying the underside and blowing open some of the joints. The Iranians patched it up with duct tape, epoxy and repainted it for the photo session.
All of which would explain the points raised in the article. However, I still have trouble with the idea that Iranian hackers - as good as they may be - electronically commandeered an American spy drone and brought it down. I’d be more inclined to believe one of their military patrols winged it with some small-caliber rifles and managed to hit the communications system.
| 340 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:22:16am |
re: #338 Killgore Trout
Why would they repaint the thing, if they want to prove that they captured the downed UAV?
Repainting and patching it makes little sense in that context.
However, if they then said that they’re going to try and repurpose it for their own use, then it makes some sense.
| 341 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:23:00am |
re: #339 thedopefishlives
All of which would explain the points raised in the article. However, I still have trouble with the idea that Iranian hackers - as good as they may be - electronically commandeering an American spy drone and bringing it down. I’d be more inclined to believe one of their military patrols winged it with some small-caliber rifles and managed to hit the communications system.
I’m pretty sure it came down from a mechanical failure, not Iranian AA or hacking.
| 342 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:23:46am |
re: #296 darthstar
When things start calming down too much, someone has to pick up the slack.
Things were calming down?
343 |
HAL2010 Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:24:36am |
This seriously pisses me off, thought that Obama was better than this.
His abandonment of the promised veto of the military bill that threatened to unleash the military in the homeland to capture, and detain indefinitely without charges, anyone suspected of being a member of al Qaeda or of “substantially supporting” them is another sign that his campaign pledge to be vigilant about civil liberties in the war on terror was a lie. Yes, a radical part has been removed - and the civilian criminal law system will not be actually prevented by law from being used to capture and prosecute al Qaeda suspects within the US. So complete militarization of domestic law enforcement - when anyone in authority screams the word “enemy combatant” - has been avoided. But not because Obama opposed the idea in principle, but because he opposed its encroachment on executive power. As Charlie Savage noted this morning,
Only Republican candidate who will argue against this?
No bets that it’s Ron Paul.
| 344 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:24:47am |
re: #340 lawhawk
Why would they repaint the thing, if they want to prove that they captured the downed UAV?
Repainting and patching it makes little sense in that context.
However, if they then said that they’re going to try and repurpose it for their own use, then it makes some sense.
I think the paint was probably to hide their “repairs” so they could claim they hacked it and piloted it safely to the ground.
| 345 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:25:52am |
re: #344 Killgore Trout
I think the paint was probably to hide their “repairs” so they could claim they hacked it and piloted it safely to the ground.
Or maybe they really deluded themselves into thinking they hacked it. Hey, we all know how good the Iranians are at fooling themselves.
346 |
kirkspencer Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:26:31am |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
It’s OK to object to the Stars and Bars, but I’d ask that it not be called a “swastika”. Despite its defense of slavery, the Confederacy was orders of magnitude less bad than Nazi Germany.
Only if you weren’t black.
(I know this is old for this thread, but had to reply)
| 347 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:27:53am |
re: #325 darthstar
Because they were American atrocities. USA! USA! Bad, yes, but not Nazi bad.
Jesus H., are we actually back to this?
And the Confederacy was not, somewhat by definition, “USA”.
And Dark hates their guts, which anyone who’s talked to him for ten seconds about the Civil War knows.
| 348 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:28:32am |
| 349 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:35:08am |
re: #346 kirkspencer
Only if you weren’t black.
(I know this is old for this thread, but had to reply)
The Confederacy was a slave-owning society, with all that that entails. I almost said ‘traditional’ slave-owning society, but in fact, it was sort of its own thing.
If we consider their sins—holding people in slavery, exploiting their labor, destroying their families, occasionally murdering them in cold blood—as equivalent to those of the Third Reich, then pretty much all of Europe’s history is as bad as or quite close to the Third Reich, and all their flags equivalent to swastikas. (This could also easily apply outside of Europe. I am keeping the scope small.)
And yet, we persist in acting as though the Nazis were worse than the general run of historical behavior (with the exception of the Roma, who, when interviewed, often have trouble distinguishing the years of the Holocaust since it wasn’t too damn different from what came before).
Why is that? Discuss.
| 350 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:36:31am |
re: #345 thedopefishlives
Or maybe they really deluded themselves into thinking they hacked it. Hey, we all know how good the Iranians are at fooling themselves.
MAybe, it’s hard to tell exactly what they’re thinking. I suspect that it was, like so much of what they do, intended to be propaganda for domestic consumption. The US government knows they didn’t hack the drone but the average Iranian probably thinks they did.
| 351 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:37:23am |
re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist
Nice try. Reminds me of the attempt to get women to run out naked into the streets to freak out the jihadis.
lol, I forgot about that one. Ah, those were the days.
| 352 |
kirkspencer Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:37:33am |
re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist
Jesus H., are we actually back to this?
And the Confederacy was not, somewhat by definition, “USA”.
And Dark hates their guts, which anyone who’s talked to him for ten seconds about the Civil War knows.
Agreed, but he has some peculiar blindspots on the subject that rankle.
Two nations rose that held as their core belief that anyone not of the correct race should be subjugated.
| 353 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:40:54am |
re: #352 kirkspencer
Agreed, but he has some peculiar blindspots on the subject that rankle.
Two nations rose that held as their core belief that anyone not of the correct race should be subjugated.
Sure, there are some parallels. Also an awful lot of differences. Acknowledging those differences doesn’t add up to ‘apologetics for the Confederacy’.
Where does the British Empire fit into all of this? Do they get a pass because they did most of their subjugation overseas?
| 354 |
HAL2010 Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:42:25am |
Seriously, is no one else freaking out about this?
Your branches of government just took your Bill of Rights and and just gave it a big fat kick in the nuts.
Yes, the fundamentalists on the right are nuts and should be highlighted, but so should this.
This bill, should it pass, is a fundamental retreat on civil liberties in America.
Link Your text to link…
| 355 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:42:55am |
re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist
It’s that the Confederacy was happening in post-Enlightenment America, where the equality of man was one of the founding princples of the state.
That does matter. It does make it more hypocritical and stupid.
And yet, we persist in acting as though the Nazis were worse than the general run of historical behavior (with the exception of the Roma, who, when interviewed, often have trouble distinguishing the years of the Holocaust since it wasn’t too damn different from what came before).
The Nazis were worse, though. Not only in that they were post-Enlightenment, but the general run of historical behavior is not outright genocide, nor racial purity. The Romans, for example, while occasionally democidal, were not even racists. They were culturalists to the core, and thought parentage was important, but not racists.
They owned slaves, too, and often in the most vile of circumstances, but the only people they ever tried to extinguish was (maybe) Carthage, and even then they didn’t do it on racial grounds.
| 356 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:44:31am |
re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist
The Confederacy was a slave-owning society, with all that that entails. I almost said ‘traditional’ slave-owning society, but in fact, it was sort of its own thing.
If we consider their sins—holding people in slavery, exploiting their labor, destroying their families, occasionally murdering them in cold blood—as equivalent to those of the Third Reich, then pretty much all of Europe’s history is as bad as or quite close to the Third Reich, and all their flags equivalent to swastikas. (This could also easily apply outside of Europe. I am keeping the scope small.)
And yet, we persist in acting as though the Nazis were worse than the general run of historical behavior (with the exception of the Roma, who, when interviewed, often have trouble distinguishing the years of the Holocaust since it wasn’t too damn different from what came before).
Why is that? Discuss.
Easier to deal in simplistic and general labels rather than due with the nuances.
| 357 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:45:12am |
re: #355 Obdicut
It’s that the Confederacy was happening in post-Enlightenment America, where the equality of man was one of the founding princples of the state.
That does matter. It does make it more hypocritical and stupid.
The Nazis were worse, though. Not only in that they were post-Enlightenment, but the general run of historical behavior is not outright genocide, nor racial purity. The Romans, for example, while occasionally democidal, were not even racists. They were culturalists to the core, and thought parentage was important, but not racists.
They owned slaves, too, and often in the most vile of circumstances, but the only people they ever tried to extinguish was (maybe) Carthage, and even then they didn’t do it on racial grounds.
Agreed all through. I believe, although I can’t speak for him, that Dark Falcon would agree with you as well.
| 358 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:46:24am |
re: #357 SanFranciscoZionist
Agreed all through. I believe, although I can’t speak for him, that Dark Falcon would agree with you as well.
Adding on to this that the entire nineteenth century was pretty revolting. The Enlightenment got us only so far.
| 359 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:47:14am |
re: #354 HAL2010
Seriously, is no one else freaking out about this?
Your branches of government just took your Bill of Rights and and just gave it a big fat kick in the nuts.
Yes, the fundamentalists on the right are nuts and should be highlighted, but so should this.
This bill, should it pass, is a fundamental retreat on civil liberties in America.Link Your text to link…
Lots of people are freaking out. Andrew Sullivan, Ron Paul, Glenn Greenwald, Anon, Alex Jones, etc. I’m sure there’s some interesting discussion to be had but it isn’t the outrageous outrage that the nuts think it is. They are largely misrepresenting the bill and what it means.
| 360 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:47:38am |
re: #354 HAL2010
I think it’s a bad law and it’s unconstitutional. I’m not freaking out about it because I don’t think it’s a huge change from what we have now. I think Obama should veto it.
| 361 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:50:16am |
Top stories of 2011 in Lego, including the pepper spray cop incident.
| 362 |
NJDhockeyfan Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:51:12am |
I just posted a new Page…
| 363 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:51:55am |
re: #360 Obdicut
I think it’s a bad law and it’s unconstitutional. I’m not freaking out about it because I don’t think it’s a huge change from what we have now. I think Obama should veto it.
I pretty much agree with Obdicut. Our police is already pretty far along in getting militarized. And getting arbitrarily arrested and tossed in jail somewhat indefinitely appears to already be quite within their capabilities - especially if the target is poorly off financially and can’t afford high profile lawyering.
| 364 |
kirkspencer Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:56:57am |
re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist
The Confederacy was a slave-owning society, with all that that entails. I almost said ‘traditional’ slave-owning society, but in fact, it was sort of its own thing.
If we consider their sins—holding people in slavery, exploiting their labor, destroying their families, occasionally murdering them in cold blood—as equivalent to those of the Third Reich, then pretty much all of Europe’s history is as bad as or quite close to the Third Reich, and all their flags equivalent to swastikas. (This could also easily apply outside of Europe. I am keeping the scope small.)
And yet, we persist in acting as though the Nazis were worse than the general run of historical behavior (with the exception of the Roma, who, when interviewed, often have trouble distinguishing the years of the Holocaust since it wasn’t too damn different from what came before).
Why is that? Discuss.
Two discussions.
Discussion one. Slavery in the US - or more generally the western hemisphere - wasn’t “traditional” in comparison to the rest of the world’s history. The major differentiation was that somewhere around the late 1600s/early 1700s slavery became permanent not only for the slave but for all generations thereafter. What became the Confederacy pushed this further; by the late 1700s, a free black entering Georgia could be taken as an escaped slave without recourse. By 1830 most of the southern states required internal passports of everyone wishing to travel to control the possibility of slaves escaping or being helped to escape.
The slavery of the 18th-19th century wasn’t traditional.
Discussion two. Why we persist in labeling Nazi Germany as worse. Because we aren’t comparing to the way things were multiple generations before. Instead we insist on comparing them to their peers of the time. To some extent this also returns to the CSA.
Actually, there’s a complication for Germany that increases this significance. That’s the fact they’d stopped such behavior. The Germany of the late 19th century and the first couple of decades of the 20th was, in terms of tolerance, one of the world’s leaders.
To strain this with a metaphor; it’s akin to excusing anti-vaccers because once upon nobody vaccinated children.
| 365 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:57:14am |
re: #297 Alouette
What the heck is a “New Testament” car?
One built since the reign of Caesar Augustus.
| 366 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 8:57:27am |
re: #363 oaktree
Asset forfeiture could be used to bankrupt anyone on the flimsiest of pretexts.
It brought in $3,999,800,000 last year.
In 2000, it brought in $ 507,000,000.
| 367 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:00:27am |
re: #364 kirkspencer
The major differentiation was that somewhere around the late 1600s/early 1700s slavery became permanent not only for the slave but for all generations thereafter.
This was pretty standard for slavery. Roman slavery, for example, had this, as did Chinese slavery.
| 368 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:01:58am |
re: #366 Obdicut
Asset forfeiture could be used to bankrupt anyone on the flimsiest of pretexts.
It brought in $3,999,800,000 last year.
In 2000, it brought in $ 507,000,000.
Yep. Criminalization is now Big Business. Asset forfeiture, and for-profit prisons. Bring back the workhouse and chain-gangs and the trifecta will be in place.
| 369 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:02:43am |
Howard Stern is going to be a judge on America’s Got Talent, I can’t wait!
| 370 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:06:17am |
Afternoon. One more final and I’m a grad. By the way for those of you wondering, I got an A on my term paper on pogroms in the Russian Empire. High praise from a professor who actually knew Nicholas II :). Okay, he’s not that old but he’s been around a while and was a blast to learn from both in this class and my lecture class on Russia and the Soviet Union.
| 371 |
Eventual Carrion Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:06:58am |
re: #279 thedopefishlives
Me, I’m having fun debugging Windows Services. In case you didn’t know, you can’t just run a service from the debugger; you have to install it via an installer, run it from the management console, and then attach a debugger to it before the code executes. Creates a fun little game where you’re frantically trying to find the process in the list so you can attach to it before it executes the method to be debugged.
I slide a Thread.Sleep() in the OnStart method to give me time if needed.
| 372 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:07:28am |
Awkward Holiday photos:
timesunion.com
My fave is the naked dude.
| 373 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:08:49am |
re: #370 HappyWarrior
Afternoon. One more final and I’m a grad. By the way for those of you wondering, I got an A on my term paper on pogroms in the Russian Empire. High praise from a professor who actually knew Nicholas II :). Okay, he’s not that old but he’s been around a while and was a blast to learn from both in this class and my lecture class on Russia and the Soviet Union.
Leaving the mouse race and joining the rat race?
| 374 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:10:49am |
re: #373 oaktree
Leaving the mouse race and joining the rat race?
Yep. Hopefully I can get something. Wonder who needs a history major, english minor, who also has some small journalism experience.
| 375 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:13:15am |
re: #371 RayFerd
I slide a Thread.Sleep() in the OnStart method to give me time if needed.
Thankfully, these particular services operate on a Timer control, so as long as I set the timer interval appropriately, I have plenty of time to get attached.
| 376 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:13:58am |
re: #374 HappyWarrior
Yep. Hopefully I can get something. Wonder who needs a history major, english minor, who also has some small journalism experience.
Depends on what you’re willing to do and willing to start as. Where I am now has marketing majors who have started as admin. assistants or customer service reps and have since moved up to project assistants and lower level supervisory jobs.
I’ve also worked for years in IT with someone who’s initial degree is in Biology.
| 377 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:14:22am |
re: #370 HappyWarrior
Afternoon. One more final and I’m a grad. By the way for those of you wondering, I got an A on my term paper on pogroms in the Russian Empire. High praise from a professor who actually knew Nicholas II :). Okay, he’s not that old but he’s been around a while and was a blast to learn from both in this class and my lecture class on Russia and the Soviet Union.
Congratulations. Good luck finding a job (generic good luck, not a reference to your major). Please don’t be like those emo 99%’ers that my FB friends make fun of, who throw a hissy fit because they can’t find The One True Job immediately after graduating.
| 379 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:18:02am |
380 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:18:05am |
So going over the front page, I am not allowed to see the content of the lip synching or whatever. I am at the lieberrie. Certain things just aren’t allowed here. Pity.
| 381 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:18:12am |
re: #376 oaktree
Depends on what you’re willing to do and willing to start as. Where I am now has marketing majors who have started as admin. assistants or customer service reps and have since moved up to project assistants and lower level supervisory jobs.
I’ve also worked for years in IT with someone who’s initial degree is in Biology.
YEah, there’s a lot of flexibility with my major. I tell you what I’m looking at is going for the government. Stable and I can do my writing projects in my spare time.
| 382 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:18:35am |
re: #374 HappyWarrior
Yep. Hopefully I can get something. Wonder who needs a history major, english minor, who also has some small journalism experience.
Most large military bases have a post newspaper and a dedicated museum that specializes in the field of effort they support. There is an Army Historian career field.
| 383 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:18:56am |
re: #379 Shropshire_Slasher
When is your court date:
[Link: tampa.cbslocal.com…]
/
Pedicure? Ha!! I chew my toenails just like I do my fingernails.:)
| 384 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:19:06am |
re: #377 thedopefishlives
Congratulations. Good luck finding a job (generic good luck, not a reference to your major). Please don’t be like those emo 99%’ers that my FB friends make fun of, who throw a hissy fit because they can’t find The One True Job immediately after graduating.
Thanks, ha yeah,, I’ll just be happy to get something at this point. My long term plan now though is to take the State Department exam. Hear that’s hard hence why a long term goal.
| 385 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:20:03am |
re: #382 Decatur Deb
Most large military bases have a post newspaper and a dedicated museum that specializes in the field of effort they support. There is an Army Historian career field.
Well my background’s more in European history than American military. I mean I know our battles and stuff but it’s not what I’ve bulked up on.
| 386 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:20:48am |
re: #385 HappyWarrior
Well my background’s more in European history than American military. I mean I know our battles and stuff but it’s not what I’ve bulked up on.
It’s OK—we were usually fighting Europeans.
| 388 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:23:01am |
re: #382 Decatur Deb
Most large military bases have a post newspaper and a dedicated museum that specializes in the field of effort they support. There is an Army Historian career field.
Aren’t they currently consolidating and moving a lot of those? (The museums at least.) Ft Knox is losing/has lost the Armor museum to Ft Benning, though there a a Patton Leadership Museum or something like that remaining. And I saw something about how the Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen is closed with displays and such from there headed for Ft Lee.
I guess I’m sort of lucky in having visited both of those in the past few years before they shifted farther away from my travel routes.
(Website Flog - My photobucket pages attached to my nick include photos from both sites.)
| 389 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:26:10am |
re: #384 HappyWarrior
Thanks, ha yeah,, I’ll just be happy to get something at this point. My long term plan now though is to take the State Department exam. Hear that’s hard hence why a long term goal.
That is supposed to be interesting. Good friend of mine from college did grad school and then started working for the State Department. Multiple overseas postings in Europe and Asia (South Korea) mixed with years living in Alexandria.
Supposedly Keith Laumer’s “Retief” stories are partially based on his experiences with State. ;)
| 390 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:27:05am |
| 391 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:27:29am |
re: #388 oaktree
Aren’t they currently consolidating and moving a lot of those? (The museums at least.) Ft Knox is losing/has lost the Armor museum to Ft Benning, though there a a Patton Leadership Museum or something like that remaining. And I saw something about how the Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen is closed with displays and such from there headed for Ft Lee.
I guess I’m sort of lucky in having visited both of those in the past few years before they shifted farther away from my travel routes.
(Website Flog - My photobucket pages attached to my nick include photos from both sites.)
I could be out of date. The last Base Re-Alignment and Closings cycle has caused a lot of confusion—that might translate into more work. (Much of the museum money is raised from individuals/organizations, rather than mil budget lines. Some of the museums are actually used for scientific research, like the ARDEC munitions collection.)
392 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:29:51am |
| 393 |
thedopefishlives Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:30:24am |
| 394 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:31:20am |
re: #391 Decatur Deb
I could be out of date. The last Base Re-Alignment and Closings cycle has caused a lot of confusion—that might translate into more work. (Much of the museum money is raised from individuals/organizations, rather than mil budget lines. Some of the museums are actually used for scientific research, like the ARDEC munitions collection.
The Army Heritage and Educational Center and such in Carlisle, PA is pretty much built around the research library there. (Military History Institute)
| 395 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:31:30am |
re: #393 thedopefishlives
Especially if it got better.
The thing is that Newt is really good at campaigning. Look at the election of 1994.
He’s not so good at actually being in charge.
| 396 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:39:39am |
There is a fat guy with his back to me at the next table. Wanna guess what I’m looking at? Actually, I’m right on the water so I’m looking at the boats in the marina. Boats don’t have ass cracks. Just sayin’.
| 397 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Dec 15, 2011 9:39:53am |
re: #395 EmmmieG
The thing is that Newt is really good at campaigning. Look at the election of 1994.
He’s not so good at actually being in charge.
This is true. I think Obama beats him easier than Romney though.
| 398 |
funky chicken Thu, Dec 15, 2011 11:01:55am |
re: #3 JasonA
And Andrew Sullivan endorsed Ron Paul today. It’s all so bizarre inside that bubble right now.
Sullivan loved Paul in 2008 too. It honestly makes me question his sanity.
| 399 |
funky chicken Thu, Dec 15, 2011 11:03:34am |
re: #368 oaktree
Yep. Criminalization is now Big Business. Asset forfeiture, and for-profit prisons. Bring back the workhouse and chain-gangs and the trifecta will be in place.
Well, it might be appropriate for the chairmen of Goldmann Sachs and AIG.
| 400 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Dec 15, 2011 3:01:59pm |
re: #398 funky chicken
Sullivan loved Paul in 2008 too. It honestly makes me question his sanity.
He’s not insane, he’s just a big professional personality who doesn’t care
All these big political personalities, pundits and professional bloviators are more alike than they are different.
Pamela Geller and Ann Coulter have a different schtick, a different brand than Andrew Sullivan, but look closer and they’re all much the same, trading off their outrageousness and novel “ideas” to their target demo
it’s a job to them, and a less honorable job than being a prostitute :D
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