Romney Blasts Secularism, Endorses Mixing Church and State

Wearing God on his sleeve

PoliticsDecember 2011 • Views: 28,298

How do you know when the Iowa Caucuses are approaching?

When Mormon Mitt Romney starts sounding like Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, and Rick Santorum, all rolled into one ranting Christian fundamentalist: Romney talks ‘war on religion’ in Iowa.

“I know there are some people who would like to make this nation a secular nation, who want to take God out of everything that exists in this country. They try to say it’s unconstitutional,” Romney said. “I trust in God, and I know you do, and I believe it’s appropriate for us to recognize in the public square that we do indeed have a creator and that we trust in our creator, particularly at this time of year.”

Romney was responding to a question about celebrating Christmas as a religious holiday, particularly in schools. The question offered Romney a chance to contrast with fellow Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry, who is running an ad on Iowa TV that accuses President Obama of waging a “war on religion.” American children cannot “openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school,” Perry says in the ad.

“How do you take God out of America when the declaration points out it’s God that gave us those rights in the first place?” Romney said. “I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square. Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths, it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”

There’s a reason Romney cited the Declaration of Independence in his pandering statement, instead of the far more important US Constitution. The Constitution goes out of its way to avoid any hint of endorsing religion, but the Declaration uses the words “endowed by their Creator.”

This is a religious far right talking point, originating among people who actually want to turn the country into a theocracy — and Mitt Romney is now parroting their propaganda.

It’s a measure of how thoroughly this craziness has spread throughout the Republican base.

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662 comments

Obdicut Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:17:05pm

Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths,

Oh really? Other faiths are cool? You sure about that?

So, if someone wanted to do some pagan celebration, or a Muslim one, in the public square, that'd be just fine?

All this hyper-religion bullshit seems less to me like an attack on atheists like myself, and more an attack on those religious people sensible enough to consider religion private.

theheat Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:17:42pm

“I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square."

Mitt's evolving. Before he was just a member of the "cult" known as Mormonism. Now his mainlined that to sound like pure, Constitution ~~hating~~ misunderstanding, cram it down your throat style, fundie. Never happy to keep that quiet, sincere, faith so many have, it has to be used like a club on everyone around them.

Good job, Mitt. You're every bit as counterfeit as I knew you could be.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:18:37pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Oh really? Other faiths are cool? You sure about that?

So, if someone wanted to do some pagan celebration, or a Muslim one, in the public square, that'd be just fine?

All this hyper-religion bullshit seems less to me like an attack on atheists like myself, and more an attack on those religious people sensible enough to consider religion private.

Isn't there a pagan celebration done at the solstice every year at Stonehenge?

My sister was there the next day a few years ago, and from what she heard it had been very crowded.

Varek Raith Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:19:10pm

Iowa, home of the persecution complex.
/

Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:21:15pm

re: #4 Varek Raith

Corny. ;-)>

Varek Raith Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:22:33pm

re: #5 Rightwingconspirator

Corny. ;-)>

There's a kernel of truth to that.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:24:04pm

re: #6 Varek Raith

There's a kernel of truth to that.

You had to pop right out with that, didn't you?

theheat Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:24:14pm

BTW, I have two cute little artificial trees in my office. With ornaments. I'm calling them my atheist Christmas trees, and one has a string of Halloween lights on it, and there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it.

Nobody is making anyone not celebrate Christmas, or the holiday season, however they choose. It doesn't work that way here in the US. That WoC is one of the oldest lies in the fundie toolbox. Likewise, nobody has to celebrate it, they only have to endure the traffic and shopping, if that's how they see it.

jaunte Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:24:25pm

“I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square."

"Unless it's Ashura, then we'll have to consider carefully what kind of nation we want."

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:24:25pm

re: #6 Varek Raith

There's a kernel of truth to that.

You just popped that out.

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:25:11pm

^ re: #1 Obdicut

Exactly. As the Founders understood, a neutral government is the only safety against the majority imposing their own religious views.

Christianity started with 12 guys against a State that wanted to kill them off. Now there are too many Christians who think that they're persecuted if stores only say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:26:11pm

re: #10 ggt

I'm all ears, trying to find my way through the maize.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:27:14pm

re: #11 thatthatisis

^

Exactly. As the Founders understood, a neutral government is the only safety against the majority imposing their own religious views.

Christianity started with 12 guys against a State that wanted to kill them off. Now there are too many Christians who think that they're persecuted if stores only say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

There are a few Whackos™ in every religion making things interesting for the rest of us.

How a women dresses or doesn't dress is a persecution for a few and the rest of us are suposed to be sensitive to that?

A few people want to pray their own way in a public place and that is persecution to another group?

I don't get it. Maybe I'm just not that sensitive.

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:27:48pm

Before I knew what I know now about Romney, the biggest "if" I had about him was whether or not he really believed this bullshit that a con artist called Joseph Smith claimed he found buried in the ground.

I understand that one does not choose one's circumstances of birth, and I understand that in spite of an ugly history Mormons have achieved much to be proud of as a culture and a creed, but when he wants to represent and lead ALL of us, and I don't refer to atheists specifically, then I miss Hitchens all the more as someone who could tell this fraud what he is in so many better words that I ever can.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:28:05pm

re: #12 Rightwingconspirator

I'm all ears, trying to find my way through the maize.

aw, shucks.

Big Joe Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:30:44pm

I'm amaized this devolved into a pun thread so quickly.

jaunte Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:31:29pm

re: #16 mracb

You mean it's a pone thread?

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:31:41pm

re: #16 mracb

I'm amaized this devolved into a pun thread so quickly.

you shouldn't be, it's pone for the course.

Olsonist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:31:57pm

I think I'll call this drink the Republican

1 shot of Church
1 shot of State
1 chunk of warm fresh bullshit

mix well

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:32:00pm

re: #13 ggt

I guess I'm a little dense, but I'm not sure I understand which point you're making. Are you saying that people should be allowed to pray in public?

jaunte Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:32:23pm

Pone mah soul, it's a corn/religion thread.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:32:23pm

First Emmie G then Jaunte. I must be channelling the best stalks today.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:33:33pm

re: #20 thatthatisis

I guess I'm a little dense, but I'm not sure I understand which point you're making. Are you saying that people should be allowed to pray in public?

I'm saying that making a space for prayer rugs or foot washing isn't an infringement on other's freedom of religion. Whacko™ Christians seem to see it as a sign of the coming apocalypse.

Big Joe Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:36:22pm

Hominy Iowans think there's room for Islam in the town square?

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:37:23pm

re: #23 ggt

I'm saying that making a space for prayer rugs or foot washing isn't an infringement on other's freedom of religion. Whacko™ Christians seem to see it as a sign of the coming apocalypse.

Ah. Got it. And agree totally. Thanks for the explanation.

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:37:55pm

re: #13 ggt

There are a few Whacko™ in every religion making things interesting for the rest of us.

How a women dresses or doesn't dress is a persecution for a few and the rest of us are suposed to be sensitive to that?

Yes, if there is an ID presented that shows only eyes.

A few people want to pray their own way in a public place and that is persecution to another group?

Yes, if it happens to be in a public street that prevents others from using it, or demands that others stop whatever else they are doing out of a commanded "respect".

I don't get it. Maybe I'm just not that sensitive.

No offense, but I don't think you carried the thought to its logical conclusion.

Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:38:09pm

re: #24 mracb

I corncur.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:39:24pm

re: #26 Naso Tang

Yes, if there is an ID presented that shows only eyes.

Yes, if it happens to be in a public street that prevents others from using it, or demands that others stop whatever else they are doing out of a commanded "respect".

No offense, but I don't think you carried the thought to its logical conclusion.

Perhaps I was making an observation, not forming notes for a thesis?

nines09 Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:40:53pm

"I know there are some people who would like to make this nation a secular nation"...blah blah blah. Yes. They were called the Founding Fathers. Now go put up a Ramadan poster and lanterns on public property an listen to the screams.

BongCrodny Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:42:34pm

I was never much of a hard core atheist; I always fell into the "probably not" category.

I always thought that if there is or was a God, he is or was a scientist, not a temperamental old grouch in a robe taking petty vengeance on everybody and everything that dares look at Him cross-eyed.

But you know, when I mention that "scientist" theory to friends, they look at me as if I told them I believed 1 and 1 equals 3.

For whatever reason, the old grouch in the robe seems to be more comforting to people than do certain other equally absurd ideas.

Eclectic Infidel Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:43:04pm

..it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”

If he really believes that, no worries. My concern however, lies on the flip side of the coin, that such a belief necessarily demands that one also looks at that same god to distribute punishment for those unwilling to take a similar stand.

History is littered with examples of what happens when the state begins sanctioning a particular brand of faith. None of it good.

aagcobb Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:43:58pm

re: #29 nines09

"I know there are some people who would like to make this nation a secular nation"...blah blah blah. Yes. They were called the Founding Fathers. Now go put up a Ramadan poster and lanterns on public property an listen to the screams.

CREEPING SHARIA!!1!1

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:45:06pm

re: #26 Naso Tang

You're adding all sorts of other facts not in evidence. Who said that praying in public would, of necessity, close off public walkways? If someone closes off public access, then that's the issue, not the reason the access was closed off.

As for dress, you immediately ran to ID's, and to dress the completely covers the face. I don't recall that ggt specified that the woman was getting on a plane. Or did I miss that reference?

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:46:15pm

re: #30 BongCrodny

I was never much of a hard core atheist; I always fell into the "probably not" category.

I always thought that if there is or was a God, he is or was a scientist, not a temperamental old grouch in a robe taking petty vengeance on everybody and everything that dares look at Him cross-eyed.

But you know, when I mention that "scientist" theory to friends, they look at me as if I told them I believed 1 and 1 equals 3.

For whatever reason, the old grouch in the robe seems to be more comforting to people than do certain other equally absurd ideas.

I think the idea that we were "made in his image" to some means the G-d must have all our faults and must be a tyrant.

Charles Johnson Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:46:24pm

re: #29 nines09

"I know there are some people who would like to make this nation a secular nation"...blah blah blah. Yes. They were called the Founding Fathers. Now go put up a Ramadan poster and lanterns on public property an listen to the screams.

Exactly. There's a reason Romney cited the Declaration of Independence instead of the far more important US Constitution in his pandering statement. The Constitution goes out of its way to avoid any hint of endorsing religion, but the Declaration uses the words "endowed by their Creator."

This is a religious far right talking point, originating among people who actually want to turn the country into a real theocracy. And Mitt Romney is now parroting it.

It's a measure of how thoroughly this craziness has spread throughout the Republican base.

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:46:24pm

Worldview collapse.

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:46:24pm

re: #23 ggt

I'm saying that making a space for prayer rugs or foot washing isn't an infringement on other's freedom of religion. Whacko™ Christians seem to see it as a sign of the coming apocalypse.

It is not Islam. We have more examples in this forum of creeping Christian commands and demands for respect, and concessions, and behaviors than we do of the Sharia variety; but any religion has the same characteristics.

When I first lived in the Muslim world in the 70's, for example, there was a recognition of others and non Muslims could buy alcohol, or pork and have their beaches where they could dress less modestly than locals. By the 90's all that was gone, piece by piece, and there were always more pieces to grab.

Religion can be summed up by "give an inch, take a mile", and then add a mile, and then add another...

HappyWarrior Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:46:46pm

He really is that desperate isn't he? Jeez Mitt could you be any more of a poseur?

jvic Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:47:16pm

“How do you take God out of America when the declaration points out it’s God that gave us those rights in the first place?” Romney said. “I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square. Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths, it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”

I'd have little problem with that under two, perhaps unattainable, conditions:

-that the obnoxious nutjobs in every religion not use such displays to try to proselytize and/or intimidate, and
-that said nutjobs not get into a 'mine is bigger than yours' contest.

jaunte Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:47:29pm

"...demands that others stop whatever else they are doing out of a commanded "respect"

One manifestation of that tendency: blue laws:

Today, almost one-half of the counties in Mississippi are dry with their own prohibition against the production, advertising, sale, distribution, or transportation of alcoholic beverages within their boundaries. It is even illegal to bring alcohol through a dry county in Mississippi while traveling across the country in the process of, for example, moving a personal wine or spirits collection to one's new residence
....
Smaller jurisdictions exist which prohibit the sale of alcoholic beverages as well, such as dry towns. There are 129 dry towns and villages in Alaska. In thirty-two of these communities the mere possession of alcohol is a crime. There are hundreds of other dry towns in the United States, some existing within wet counties.

In addition, many counties and municipalities in the United States are dry on Sunday or part of Sunday, which is the Sabbath for most Christians. This is a result of Colonial-era Blue Laws, which were designed to promote Christian morality.
[Link: www2.potsdam.edu...]

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:48:02pm

re: #28 ggt

Perhaps I was making an observation, not forming notes for a thesis?

My thesis I guess, not yours.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:49:36pm

"our creator" to me is rather generic. It could be nature, a planet, a spaghetti monster, a thinker, a random event --whatever.

The point, IMHO, is that our RIGHTS are our birthright and cannot be endowed or restricted by a Human.

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:49:51pm

Hitchens
Image: 6btix.jpg

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:50:40pm

It's so ironic to hear Romney say this. If the Constitution had allowed the majority to dictate religion in the public square, no Mormons could have survived the 19th century.

nines09 Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:50:51pm

re: #35 Charles
By opening the door for their religion, they open the door to all religions. Or it's unconstitutional. So the cure will be the curse. Pandering is too kind a word.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:50:56pm

re: #40 jaunte

Hasn't worked very well has it?

theheat Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:51:05pm

re: #42 ggt

"our creator" to me is rather generic. It could be nature, a planet, a spaghetti monster, a thinker, a random event --whatever.

Or a mom. Or sperm, for that matter.

Charles Johnson Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:52:19pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Hitchens
Image: 6btix.jpg

A Dahon collapsible bike. It packs into an amazingly small case.

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:54:05pm

re: #48 Charles

A Dahon collapsible bike. It packs into an amazingly small case.

It's really a great pic of him. I've never seen that one before.

HappyWarrior Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:54:31pm

re: #42 ggt

"our creator" to me is rather generic. It could be nature, a planet, a spaghetti monster, a thinker, a random event --whatever.

The point, IMHO, is that our RIGHTS are our birthright and cannot be endowed or restricted by a Human.

What upsets me about Mitt pandering to this is as a Mormon, he should know the dangers of mixing church and state together. I guess this is why as someone with Catholic roots, I get upset when I hear Santorum and other Catholic conservatives act like we need the government and church together. No, you idiots, that's why many of our ancestors were oppressed in the first place.

jaunte Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:54:54pm

"How do you take God out of America..."

This phrasing has always seemed to me completely illogical; if one truly believes in a supreme being who is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, there is no threat at all from puny human actions 'taking' this entity out of anything.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:55:11pm

re: #47 theheat

Or a mom. Or sperm, for that matter.

I don't know, I think my Mom would have restricted a lot of rights :)

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:55:46pm

re: #33 thatthatisis

You're adding all sorts of other facts not in evidence. Who said that praying in public would, of necessity, close off public walkways? If someone closes off public access, then that's the issue, not the reason the access was closed off.

As for dress, you immediately ran to ID's, and to dress the completely covers the face. I don't recall that ggt specified that the woman was getting on a plane. Or did I miss that reference?

We are generalizing. There were recent examples of the public roads in some areas of Paris being taken over by such prayer rallies on a regular basis and that is what came to my mind.

There are plenty of examples ID requirements that don't involve airplanes, but I tried to make it clear that in the USA, so far, our biggest problem is not with Muslims, but with Christians who have even more insidious demands on everyone else's behavior, which is not to say that Muslims ( or others)don't do the same where they have the numbers.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:56:13pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior

What upsets me about Mitt pandering to this is as a Mormon, he should know the dangers of mixing church and state together. I guess this is why as someone with Catholic roots, I get upset when I hear Santorum and other Catholic conservatives act like we need the government and church together. No, you idiots, that's why many of our ancestors were oppressed in the first place.

They want theocracy. They think it is Christianity vs. Islam instead of Civilization vs. Idiots.

HappyWarrior Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:57:27pm

re: #54 ggt

They want theocracy. They think it is Christianity vs. Islam instead of Civilization vs. Idiots.

Well, I'd be opposed to a Christian theocracy as much as I would a Muslim one. Rule by the church sucks which is something I thought we learned in the Middle Ages but I guess not.

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:58:06pm

For background, here is Mitt's 2007 speech when he had to go and ~~do obeisance~~ bow before the evangelicals in the party:

Gov. Romney's Religious Speech Today

It's worth reading, and comparing/contrasting to his latest rants.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:58:20pm

re: #53 Naso Tang

We are generalizing. There were recent examples of the public roads in some areas of Paris being taken over by such prayer rallies on a regular basis and that is what came to my mind.

There are plenty of examples ID requirements that don't involve airplanes, but I tried to make it clear that in the USA, so far, our biggest problem is not with Muslims, but with Christians who have even more insidious demands on everyone else's behavior, which is not to say that Muslims ( or others)don't do the same where they have the numbers.

Yes, the Establishment Clause is at risk --imminent risk --from Whacko™ Christians. They are running for POTUS.

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:58:49pm

re: #51 jaunte

"How do you take God out of America..."

This phrasing has always seemed to me completely illogical; if one truly believes in a supreme being who is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, there is no threat at all from puny human actions 'taking' this entity out of anything.

So true.

Plus there's a big difference between taking God out of America, and taking God out of Americans. No one is taking God away from believers.

As I said upthread, if God can survive the might of the Roman Empire, he can survive Macy's, or some mosque on the corner of some random street.

Mocking Jay Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:01:06pm

re: #54 ggt

They want theocracy. They think it is Christianity vs. Islam instead of Civilization vs. Idiots.

If they were serious about their fear of Creeping Sharia, they would be the most fervent supporters of the separation of church and state.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:01:09pm

re: #58 thatthatisis

So true.

Plus there's a big difference between taking God out of America, and taking God out of Americans. No one is taking God away from believers.

As I said upthread, if God can survive the might of the Roman Empire, he can survive Macy's, or some mosque on the corner of some random street.

Ah! You see, the word of G-d cannot be written on the human heart. It must be heard. It must be Preached. How else can it accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express and Paypal?

/gah

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:03:05pm

Also from 2007, if you remember, Romney had to endure this:

[Link: www.votingforsatan.com...]

If You Vote for Mitt Romney You are Voting for Satan

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:03:22pm

re: #60 ggt

Ah! You see, the word of G-d cannot be written on the human heart as written.

Image: tumblr_lsfkxsdIEQ1qiyec0o1_500.jpg

HappyWarrior Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:07:28pm

re: #59 JasonA

If they were serious about their fear of Creeping Sharia, they would be the most fervent supporters of the separation of church and state.

See, they're convinced that creeping Sharia and secularization are the same.

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:08:03pm

So, if Mitt Romney is Satan, and Barack Obama is Satan, does that mean Mitt Romney is Barack Obama?

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:08:52pm

I'd love to see a breakdown of Church/religion revenue as part of GDP.

Which probably doesn't make any sense, as they don't produce.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:09:29pm

re: #64 freetoken

So, if Mitt Romney is Satan, and Barack Obama is Satan, does that mean Mitt Romney is Barack Obama?

not enough degrees of separation. . . .

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:09:30pm

re: #64 freetoken

So, if Mitt Romney is Satan, and Barack Obama is Satan, does that mean Mitt Romney is Barack Obama?

If this land is my land, and this land is your land, that means that one of us has a forged deed to this land.

In other words, one is only a faux Satan. Horns on a headband, plastic trident thingy, and so on.

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:09:45pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Image: tumblr_lsfkxsdIEQ1qiyec0o1_500.jpg

I don't care for that image!

Digital Display Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:10:19pm

Hi Lizards..I didn't go out tonight.. Hope everyone is well...
It was a perfect fall day in Oklahoma and Winston is exhausted from playing and is sleeping...

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:10:46pm

re: #68 prairiefire

I don't care for that image!

Enjoy your baked potato heart.

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:11:37pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Enjoy your baked potato heart.

I've got a human, bloody heart.

The Shadow Do Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:13:03pm

While I admit I have become somewhat apolitical, one may say cynical, I have no problem with what Mitt said here. I am an atheist on most days, an agnostic on others, but I hardly find this offensive:
“I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square. Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths, it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”
Why is this a big deal?

jaunte Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:14:13pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Image: tumblr_lsfkxsdIEQ1qiyec0o1_500.jpg

The model for Jesus looks a little like the My Name Is Earl guy.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:14:14pm

re: #72 The Shadow Do

While I admit I have become somewhat apolitical, one may say cynical, I have no problem with what Mitt said here. I am an atheist on most days, an agnostic on others, but I hardly find this offensive:
“I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square. Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths, it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”
Why is this a big deal?

Because a lot of us (even believers in something, like me) don't want it.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:15:01pm

re: #73 jaunte

The model for Jesus looks a little like the My Name Is Earl guy.

I've never understood the perseverance of the blonde haired blue eyed Jesus.

The Shadow Do Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:15:04pm

re: #74 ggt

Because a lot of us (even believers in something, like me) don't want it.

So what?

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:15:04pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Enjoy your baked potato heart.

Did you think I was being sarcastic?

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:15:43pm

re: #76 The Shadow Do

So what?

I'm not going to vote for someone who insists on it.

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:16:11pm

re: #77 prairiefire

Did you think I was being sarcastic?

Did you think you'd really enjoy a baked potato heart?

The Ghost of a Flea Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:16:23pm

re: #51 jaunte

"How do you take God out of America..."

This phrasing has always seemed to me completely illogical; if one truly believes in a supreme being who is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, there is no threat at all from puny human actions 'taking' this entity out of anything.

The premise that omni-present, -potent, -scient God endorses nations and temporal entities in and of itself is problematic. If you're a being with perfect information, a construct like nationality is pretty much irrelevant since you have no need for heuristic categories or over-glossing labels. And if one is going by OT/NT God, there's really only Israel and Everyone Else.

I think I've said this before here, but the type of people Romney is pandering to...if you break down their characterization of God you get the sense they're more monolatrist than monotheist.

The Shadow Do Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:16:35pm

re: #78 ggt

I'm not going to vote for someone who insists on it.

I hardly read insistance in that statement. Did you?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:16:51pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Did you think you'd really enjoy a baked potato heart?

I have had baked potato and heart (beef heart) together before.

Heart is chewy.

Digital Display Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:18:23pm

re: #74 ggt

Because a lot of us (even believers in something, like me) don't want it.

You know what I miss? I lived in this small town in Napa Valley and everybody got together once a year in the park and sang Christmas Carols by candle light..It was really neat..

The Shadow Do Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:18:42pm

re: #82 EmmmieG

I have had baked potato and heart (beef heart) together before.

Heart is chewy.

Captain Beefheart?

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:18:55pm

Nice thing about being an atheist - there's three more imaginary things not to get upset over.

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:19:34pm

re: #81 The Shadow Do

I hardly read insistance in that statement. Did you?

it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings

I didn't appreciate that part. Communities can do whatever they want, I don't have to participate. Society doesn't need to recognize that it looks to G-d for anything.

Romantic Heretic Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:19:50pm

re: #72 The Shadow Do

Why is this a big deal?

Because we know the people he's speaking to only want their religion on public display. Others can shut the fuck up and not bother them. As well, they've made it very clear they want God to be part of the government which is specifically against the Constitution.

Mitt is pandering to these people, these theocrats, and it bothers me.

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:21:05pm

re: #44 thatthatisis

It's so ironic to hear Romney say this. If the Constitution had allowed the majority to dictate religion in the public square, no Mormons could have survived the 19th century.

Well, one reason they did a mass emigration to Utah was to escape local oppression. And Joseph Smith himself was lynched, was he not?

The Shadow Do Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:21:32pm

re: #87 Romantic Heretic

Because we know the people he's speaking to only want their religion on public display. Others can shut the fuck up and not bother them. As well, they've made it very clear they want God to be part of the government which is specifically against the Constitution.

Mitt is pandering to these people, these theocrats, and it bothers me.

Your interpretation is not consistent with the quote. But that's ok, I get it.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:21:58pm

He was shot.

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:22:59pm

re: #72 The Shadow Do

Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths, it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”
Why is this a big deal?

Because he implies that this MUST BE as a society, not as individuals.

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:23:34pm

One of my favorites:

Youtube Video

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:24:09pm

re: #90 EmmmieG

He was shot.

Maybe he was shot, hanged, drowned, bludgeoned, stabbed and frightened to death.

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:24:51pm

re: #85 b_sharp

Nice thing about being an atheist - there's three more imaginary things not to get upset over.

Yes, the Trinity. That's what I believe in. Super strong x3 Jesus faith.

Charles Johnson Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:25:30pm

re: #72 The Shadow Do

Why is this a big deal?

Because of the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution, which very specifically prohibits what Mitt is advocating.

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:26:00pm

re: #94 prairiefire

Yes, the Trinity. That's what I believe in. Super strong x3 Jesus faith.

Made of super strong ripstop fabric.

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:26:43pm

re: #95 Charles

Not to mention that sectarian establishment of religion has been a major cause of wars in the West over the past 1000 years or so.

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:27:19pm

re: #97 freetoken

Not to mention that sectarian establishment of religion has been a major cause of wars in the West over the past 1000 years or so.

In the West? //

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:28:18pm

re: #92 freetoken

One of my favorites:

[Video]

I've got an Xmas song for ya. Ya like apples?

Youtube Video

_{Just havin' some fun with ya, bro.}

100

Charles Johnson Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:28:23pm

Typical. That was another troll, who has registered at least four other accounts at LGF.

101

goddamnedfrank Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:28:46pm

re: #72 The Shadow Do

While I admit I have become somewhat apolitical, one may say cynical, I have no problem with what Mitt said here. I am an atheist on most days, an agnostic on others, but I hardly find this offensive:
“I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square. Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths, it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”
Why is this a big deal?

Where do you draw the line, bloody public Catholic flagellants, Vodoun animal sacrifice? What if the Church of Satan want's their moment in the public square, are you going to restrict it to what's popular and least likely to cause offense to the religiously minded, since you've already dismissed the representation of atheists and secularists as irrelevant? The public square is kind of a fluid term too, encompassing literal town squares as well as seats of government power such as state supreme court buildings.

102

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:29:42pm

Christians like Perry (I'm not sure of Romney) are simply afraid the privileged position they've enjoyed for centuries is being eroded by a nasty PC liberal infection.

103

Charles Johnson Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:29:50pm

Take note of what trolls do -- they attempt to distract attention away from what's going on, by telling you it's not a big deal. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

104

Romantic Heretic Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:29:56pm

re: #89 The Shadow Do

Your interpretation is not consistent with the quote. But that's ok, I get it.

But this is.

"I know there are some people who would like to make this nation a secular nation, who want to take God out of everything that exists in this country. They try to say it's unconstitutional,” Romney said. "I trust in God, and I know you do, and I believe it's appropriate for us to recognize in the public square that we do indeed have a creator and that we trust in our creator, particularly at this time of year.”

America is a secular nation, and thrusting God into the public sphereis unconstitutional.

And for someone who claims atheism/agnosticism you've got the Believer's™ condescension down pat.

105

MittDoesNotCompute Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:30:45pm

Fuck you, Mitt, you spineless excuse for a politician. I was no big fan of Bill Clinton and the rightwingers (led by Rush and his ilk) said that he ran the presidency by seeing which way the political winds were blowing at the time , but you take the fucking cake.

You wanna have some chance at the GOP nom this year? Try being true to yourself, if you can, and let the RWNJ candidates like Gingrich and Bachmann angle for the TPGOP "base" (that will never vote for you even if their lives depended on it).

Egads, man...grow some fucking balls.

106

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:31:13pm

Troll? And I missed it, as usual.

107

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:32:20pm

re: #102 b_sharp

Christians like Perry (I'm not sure of Romney) are simply afraid the privileged position they've enjoyed for centuries is being eroded by a nasty PC liberal infection.

Brave New World is challenging a lot of Power Positions.

Making things interesting . . .

108

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:32:36pm

re: #106 ggt

Troll? And I missed it, as usual.

:(

It was nothing but a Shadow do do.

109

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:32:48pm

re: #100 Charles

Typical. That was another troll, who has registered at least four other accounts at LGF.

How did he/ she get 8000 posts?

110

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:33:22pm

re: #98 Naso Tang

In the West? //

I don't know enough about the indigenous cultures of the Americas, or Africa, or SE Asia, to be confident to say that sectarianism (as we understand it) was a driver in their conflicts.

In NE Asia I do not believe that (formal) religious beliefs played a central role in their warfare. The Mongols, the Han, and those who came to be known as the Koreans and Japanese certainly had their own bloodthirstiness, but I can't pick any particularly religious wars from memory.

111

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:33:54pm

re: #96 b_sharp

Made of super strong ripstop fabric.

Presbyterians sing the Doxology hymn at most Sunday services.

Youtube Video

112

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:34:06pm

re: #104 Romantic Heretic

Heh, I've got fundie-literalists in my family and even most of them know, and appreciate, the fact that the USA was founded as a secular nation.

113

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:34:37pm

re: #110 freetoken

I don't know enough about the indigenous cultures of the Americas, or Africa, or SE Asia, to be confident to say that sectarianism (as we understand it) was a driver in their conflicts.

In NE Asia I do not believe that (formal) religious beliefs played a central role in their warfare. The Mongols, the Han, and those who came to be known as the Koreans and Japanese certainly had their own bloodthirstiness, but I can't pick any particularly religious wars from memory.

Well if the dude in charge was considered to have G-d like powers . . . .

I don't know enough either to comment.

114

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:35:11pm

bbl

115

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:37:18pm

Evening lizards!

The Cowboys opened a can or whoopass in the first half against TB. I hope they don't blow it in the 4th quarter.

116

MittDoesNotCompute Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:37:33pm

re: #100 Charles

Typical. That was another troll, who has registered at least four other accounts at LGF.

Wow...The Shadow Do was a fairly old and active poster, not exactly the MO of a straight-up troll.
Four other accounts...really? I am perplexed on this one.

117

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:38:07pm

re: #110 freetoken

Read a book several years ago about Genghis Khan, and according to that book one of the features of living under GK's tyrannical rule was "freedom of religion". Not sure how true that is.

118

jaunte Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:38:19pm

Cesaria Evora has died, aged 70

She won a Grammy in the world music category in 2003 for her album “Voz D’Amor.”
Ms. Evora was the best-known performer of “morna,” Cape Verde’s national music, which arose from the African and seafaring traditions of the country’s10 volcanic islands.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Besame mucho - Live in Paris 2002

Youtube Video

119

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:39:23pm

re: #88 oaktree

Well, one reason they did a mass emigration to Utah was to escape local oppression. And Joseph Smith himself was lynched, was he not?

QED ! Emphasis on the "local oppression". If the weight of the federal government had supported the local oppression at Nauvoo, the Mormons would have been wiped out.

120

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:39:37pm

re: #19 Olsonist

I think I'll call this drink the Republican

Garnish with Survival Seeds.

121

Digital Display Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:40:22pm

re: #115 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards!

The Cowboys opened a can or whoopass in the first half against TB. I hope they don't blow it in the 4th quarter.

The game is a blow out..I've been switching between Christmas movies, The rerun of the GOP debate and NCIS..Not much interesting on..
/Could be worse..It could be the Colts on and ruin my dinner..

122

Romantic Heretic Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:40:41pm

re: #110 freetoken

I don't know enough about the indigenous cultures of the Americas, or Africa, or SE Asia, to be confident to say that sectarianism (as we understand it) was a driver in their conflicts.

In NE Asia I do not believe that (formal) religious beliefs played a central role in their warfare. The Mongols, the Han, and those who came to be known as the Koreans and Japanese certainly had their own bloodthirstiness, but I can't pick any particularly religious wars from memory.

Can't speak for other NA cultures but my understanding is that the Aztec's conflicts were pretty much always driven by religion. It's how they got enough victims for their sacrifices.

In fact their weapons were designed to cripple rather than kill and they had strict rules about who could fight who.

Not surprising as among the Emperor's many titles was, "Our God, our enemy, our murderer."

123

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:41:01pm

re: #110 freetoken

I don't know enough about the indigenous cultures of the Americas, or Africa, or SE Asia, to be confident to say that sectarianism (as we understand it) was a driver in their conflicts.

In NE Asia I do not believe that (formal) religious beliefs played a central role in their warfare. The Mongols, the Han, and those who came to be known as the Koreans and Japanese certainly had their own bloodthirstiness, but I can't pick any particularly religious wars from memory.

There could be a debate on the meaning of "war", or how it is reported, but it is a simple matter to ask why there are so many fewer Christians or Jews in Muslim countries than there were centuries ago, or Armenians or Baathist in their areas, or Muslims in India. Perhaps the Neanderthals had a similar problem?

War is not an instructive word in this context.

124

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:41:44pm

re: #116 talon_262

Four other accounts...really? I am perplexed on this one.

Seen it a lot on gaming forums back when. Several accounts for one person so that they could use them to make it appear as though they had more support for their 'arguments' than they actually did.

125

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:42:06pm

re: #118 jaunte

:-(

She was wonderful. It was only recently that I linked some of her music here. Perhaps with her passing her music will get more attention.

126

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:42:20pm

re: #115 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards!

The Cowboys opened a can or whoopass in the first half against TB. I hope they don't blow it in the 4th quarter.

I'm from TB territory. Not a good year.

127

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:42:29pm

re: #119 thatthatisis

QED ! Emphasis on the "local oppression". If the weight of the federal government had supported the local oppression at Nauvoo, the Mormons would have been wiped out.

The development of Mormonism as a faith has caused division in families. I think it is the difference in the belief in the trinity that is the greatest divide.

128

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:44:40pm

Wikipedia:

Beyond his military accomplishments, Genghis Khan also advanced the Mongol Empire in other ways. He decreed the adoption of the Uyghur script as the Mongol Empire's writing system. He also promoted religious tolerance in the Mongol Empire, and created a unified empire from the nomadic tribes of northeast Asia. Present-day Mongolians regard him as the founding father of Mongolia.[10]

129

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:45:18pm

re: #127 prairiefire

The development of Mormonism as a faith has caused division in families. I think it is the difference in the belief in the trinity that's the largest divide.

Perhaps I should know, but that sounds like a statement from a believer.

130

jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:46:06pm

re: #72 The Shadow Do

While I admit I have become somewhat apolitical, one may say cynical, I have no problem with what Mitt said here. I am an atheist on most days, an agnostic on others, but I hardly find this offensive:
“I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square. Whether that’s a manger or a menorah, or representatives of other faiths, it is important for us as a society to recognize that we look to God for many of our blessings.”
Why is this a big deal?

Because when he says "we look to God for many of our blessings" he really means "We look to MY God AND ONLY MY GOD for many of our blessings." Anything Mitt Romney puts forward for Christians he also be ready to follow up for Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Worshipers of the Norse Pantheon and followers of the Flying Spaghetti monster. Somehow I doubt the is....

131

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:47:09pm

I believe in the trinity:

Celery, onion, and bell peppers.

132

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:47:29pm

re: #126 Naso Tang

I'm from TB territory. Not a good year.

Keep your chin up, Dallas has found a way to lose a few games in the second half.

133

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:47:49pm

re: #123 Naso Tang

War is not an instructive word in this context.

Well, whatever word we want to use, I was thinking about conflict beyond the personal/tribal spheres.

Certainly in ancient times "wars" were much smaller scale most of the time, and individual power grabs by ascending dominant males are the prime candidate for conflict.

But I picked the roughly "1000" years on purpose. It was only after Christianity became the dominant culture, and after Islam had also grown in sphere to create a dominant culture, that what we call "sects" could battle within their cultures for control.

In early Christianity there were many conflicts over doctrines, yet I can't think of one (from the first two centuries) that resulted in what we could label as a "war" in the literal sense of that word (and not the metaphorical use often attached to it, as in the "war on Christmas."

134

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:47:56pm

re: #131 BigPapa

I believe in the trinity:

Celery, onion, and bell peppers.

But the one to rule them all is garlic.

135

MittDoesNotCompute Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:48:03pm

re: #131 BigPapa

I believe in the trinity:

Celery, onion, and bell peppers.

In my Holy Chili...oh, yes.

136

Petero1818 Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:48:46pm

re: #118 jaunte

Cesaria Evora has died, aged 70

Besame mucho - Live in Paris 2002

[Video]

You know I still remember the first time I heard her, and it was Besame Mucho. I had an instant emotional reaction. Just an amazing artist. Every time I listen to her I find new layers in her voice. A ton of depth.

137

reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:48:58pm

re: #131 BigPapa

I believe in the trinity:

Celery, onion, and bell peppers.

That's the holy trinity!
And don't you forget it.

138

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:49:26pm

re: #137 reine.de.tout

That's the holy trinity!
And don't you forget it.

What? Garlic, onion and oregano.

139

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:50:27pm

re: #134 oaktree

But the one to rule them all is garlic.

There is only one garlic

Though shall not covet false herbs

Did you rock that risotto?

140

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:50:31pm

re: #137 reine.de.tout

That's the holy trinity!
And don't you forget it.

The french version is onion, celery and carrots.

141

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:50:37pm

re:

142

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:50:38pm

re: #131 BigPapa

I believe in the trinity:

Celery, onion, and bell peppers.

I hate all three.

The Holy Trinity has to be Chocolate, Caramel, and Butter Scotch.

143

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:51:18pm

Onions, cilantro, and garlic.

144

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:51:31pm

re: #134 oaktree

But the one to rule them all is garlic.

Garlic is king and shallots are queen.

145

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:51:42pm

re: #138 EmmmieG

What? Garlic, onion and oregano.

Maybe garlic, black pepper and oregano.

146

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:51:42pm

re: #137 reine.de.tout

That's the holy trinity!
And don't you forget it.

Nothing like a pile of the 'holy trinity' dropped in my dutch oven to start a jambalaya.

147

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:52:26pm

re: #135 talon_262

In my Holy Chili...oh, yes.

Holy Trinity Chili

148

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:52:41pm

re: #138 EmmmieG

What? Garlic, onion and oregano.

No oregano, basil please.

149

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:52:50pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

The french version is onion, celery and carrots.

Mirepoix rocks. I use that as the base for a few soup recipes.

And yes the risotto came out well yesterday. Didn't have the mushrooms, so it was "plain" in just using onions, butter, rice, broth and grated cheese. Went quite well with the pulled pork.

150

Sheila Broflovski Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:53:05pm

re: #93 b_sharp

Maybe he was shot, hanged, drowned, bludgeoned, stabbed and frightened to death.

that was Rasputin.

151

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:54:01pm

That was the easiest thread derail ever.

152

Sheila Broflovski Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:55:00pm

I would have posted a "Pie day!" page with my Chocolate Black Forest Trifle, but it was too close to Shabbat yesterday afternoon, and we have already eaten up a whole bunch of Chocolate Black Forest Trifle.

A really fancy dessert is good once in a while.

153

sagehen Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:55:17pm

re: #97 freetoken

Not to mention that sectarian establishment of religion has been a major cause of wars ~~in the West~~ on this planet ~~over the past 1000 years or so~~ through all of recorded human history.

154

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:55:24pm

re: #151 BigPapa

That was the easiest thread derail ever.

You broke our train of thought.

155

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:55:26pm

re: #145 b_sharp

re: #131 BigPapa

And here I thought it was Frank, Dean, and Sammy...

MP3 Audio

156

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:55:46pm

re: #133 freetoken

Well, whatever word we want to use, I was thinking about conflict beyond the personal/tribal spheres.

You have the luxury of being able to think in a global sphere. My point was that for most of human history the world was to the next river or mountain. Tribal is most of human history, and the effect of war is the same on those effected whether it involves 10's or millions.

We don't know how many gods have been wiped out by war, but we can be sure there have been countless ones. Now we have fewer gods and therefore bigger wars.

157

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:56:19pm

Our son attended Sunday school, and one February I asked him (he was about 5 years old) what he learned. He said he learned all about the Trinity. So I said, what can he tell me about the Trinity. And he said "they're the Father, Son, and Abraham Lincoln".

He'd obviously been learning about Lincoln in school because it was February. So he got government and religion a little confused.

My son was 5. What's Mitt's excuse?

158

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:56:45pm

re: #151 BigPapa

That was the easiest thread derail ever.

Sorry for not noticing. Had to take a pee.

159

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:56:46pm

re: #153 sagehen

Given how well religious hierarchies work for controlling a society and collecting power and wealth is that very surprising?

160

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:57:46pm

re: #155 freetoken

Lee, Lifeson, and Peart.

Youtube Video

161

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:58:00pm

re: #154 Slumbering Behemoth

You broke our train of thought.

I was railing about a dead issue.

162

thatthatisis Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:58:16pm

BTW, for anyone who missed it, the Ohio University - Utah State game was really fun.

163

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:59:13pm

re: #150 Alouette

that was Rasputin.

I thought it was Peter Campbell on Soap.

164

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:59:32pm

Occupy activists stake camp at Obama office

DES MOINES, Iowa – Occupy Des Moines activists on Saturday vowed to shut down President Barack Obama's campaign offices and set up a camp outside they plan to maintain around the clock.

"We have every intention to keep this place closed down until we are satisfied," said Frank Cordaro, an activist and founder of the Catholic Worker group in Des Moines.

A handful of activists went to Obama's nondescript office in a downtown strip mall after larger rallies to mark the three-month anniversary of the Occupy Wall Street movement in New York. They had hoped to read a statement demanding Obama cut military spending by half and "dismantle our U.S. military empire ... so we can create jobs, balance the budget, meet our peoples' needs here and help the human community to heal our dying planet."

When they arrived, they found the doors locked.

I'm not sure what the hell they want.

165

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:00:55pm

re: #161 Naso Tang

I was railing about a dead issue.

Well, unless you can tie it into something the average person can track, you might as well spike it.

166

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:01:17pm

re: #164 NJDhockeyfan

Occupy activists stake camp at Obama office

I'm not sure what the hell they want.

They had hoped to read a statement demanding Obama cut military spending by half and "dismantle our U.S. military empire ... so we can create jobs, balance the budget, meet our peoples' needs here and help the human community to heal our dying planet."

Seems pretty straightforward.

167

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:02:35pm

re: #149 oaktree

Mirepoix rocks. I use that as the base for a few soup recipes.

And yes the risotto came out well yesterday. Didn't have the mushrooms, so it was "plain" in just using onions, butter, rice, broth and grated cheese. Went quite well with the pulled pork.

The voice in my head when making risotto

Youtube Video

168

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:02:54pm

re: #166 freetoken

Seems pretty straightforward.

Are they going to stay until they are heard or until Obama will "dismantle our U.S. military empire"?

169

b_sharp Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:03:12pm

re: #166 freetoken

Seems pretty straightforward.

A bit of a pipe dream if you ask me.

170

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:04:23pm

re: #168 NJDhockeyfan

Are they going to stay until they are heard or until Obama will "dismantle our U.S. military empire"?

No doubt once they are heard it will happen.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

171

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:05:41pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Pretty much why I don't want to work in/run a restaurant. Anyone who thinks Gordon is just an "over the top" exaggeration hasn't worked in many restaurant kitchens.

172

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:06:23pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

The voice in my head when making risotto

[Video]

Gah. It's a pity there seems to be this correlation between talent and abusive personalities with massive ego.

This thing is sort of funny when it's done on purpose (Lenny Henry in Chef!), but seeing it done to real people is somewhat distressing.

173

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:06:31pm

re: #170 freetoken

No doubt once they are heard it will happen.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

Supposed to. I expect to see tents popping up soon.

174

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:08:18pm

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

Pretty much why I don't want to work in/run a restaurant. Anyone who thinks Gordon is just an "over the top" exaggeration hasn't worked in many restaurant kitchens.

After high school I debated about culinary school or a music conservatory. I wasn't a very good musician but I made the right choice. I love cooking but it's a hell of a way to make a living. I definitely don't have the temperament for it.

175

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:09:01pm

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

Pretty much why I don't want to work in/run a restaurant. Anyone who thinks Gordon is just an "over the top" exaggeration hasn't worked in many restaurant kitchens.

No, I believe it. Just watching the recent "Next Iron Chef" recipes and/or "Chopped" will show you that a lot of chefs have very arrogant attitudes about their skills and talent.

176

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:11:26pm

re: #172 oaktree

Gah. It's a pity there seems to be this correlation between talent and abusive personalities with massive ego.

This thing is sort of funny when it's done on purpose (Lenny Henry in Chef!), but seeing it done to real people is somewhat distressing.

I real kitchens with professionals it is sort of a standard thing. I do object with the amateur cooking shows when they treat contestants like that. IN the UK versions of Ramsay's shows he is very different with home cooks. He turns into a cheerleader/food dork.

177

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:12:30pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

After high school I debated about culinary school or a music conservatory. I wasn't a very good musician but I made the right choice. I love cooking but it's a hell of a way to make a living. I definitely don't have the temperament for it.

Very true. I cooked in restaurants for 14 years. It's not for everyone and unless you are some incredible chef or own a successful restaurant you don't make much money and the hours can be very long.

178

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:13:06pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

The American version of these reality shows really stress conflict. Not only the cooking shows, but the dance shows, etc. It's a sad statement about our culture - obsessed with conflict, we need it apparently.

Have you seen the Australian version of the MasterChef series? Totally different vibe.

179

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:14:44pm

re: #177 NJDhockeyfan

Very true. I cooked in restaurants for 14 years. It's not for everyone and unless you are some incredible chef or own a successful restaurant you don't make much money and the hours can be very long.

Even when people know what they're doing and have big bucks behind them it's still a really tough business. Restaurants fail all the time for all kinds of reasons.

180

Digital Display Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:15:30pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

I've been talking to a few guys I met here in Norman...I'd like to produce a weekly Youtube Oklahoma Tailgate show.. Great food and crazy fans..
A 30 minute weekly show during the season.. I know we'd get hits.. If done right It could be a really fun Video to do each week

181

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:16:06pm

re: #178 freetoken

The American version of these reality shows really stress conflict. Not only the cooking shows, but the dance shows, etc. It's a sad statement about our culture - obsessed with conflict, we need it apparently.

Have you seen the Australian version of the MasterChef series? Totally different vibe.

I come across the Aussie version of cooking shows all the time but haven't taken the time to watch them. Maybe I should just to check out the different vibe.

182

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:17:10pm

re: #178 freetoken

The American version of these reality shows really stress conflict. Not only the cooking shows, but the dance shows, etc. It's a sad statement about our culture - obsessed with conflict, we need it apparently.

Have you seen the Australian version of the MasterChef series? Totally different vibe.

Chopped definitely. I get less of that vibe with Iron Chef America because I think there is a lot of respect being shown to both chefs and the food is the thing where you know that two very good chefs are preparing very good food.

Haven't seen any of the Australian Masterchef stuff - I might have to look into it.

183

The Ghost of a Flea Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:18:51pm

re: #110 freetoken

I don't know enough about the indigenous cultures of the Americas, or Africa, or SE Asia, to be confident to say that sectarianism (as we understand it) was a driver in their conflicts.

In NE Asia I do not believe that (formal) religious beliefs played a central role in their warfare. The Mongols, the Han, and those who came to be known as the Koreans and Japanese certainly had their own bloodthirstiness, but I can't pick any particularly religious wars from memory.

Polytheism generally bends and flexes when confronted with new practices: either ideas are absorbed whole or become syncretic with existing ideas. The closest thing would be the ancient practice of desecration...but that's more "the divinity's fate follows that of its followers" than a direct edict for one faith to stamp out another.

India, China, SE Asian, Japan: all of these large areas were and are very heterodox. There's a conjoined toolbox mentality and exercise of relativism: the individual as moral and spiritual agent can/will pick and choose a path, and barring antisocial conduct most people will leave you to it.

While you don't see a lot of "religious wars" in Asia, though, you do see the occasional round of temporal powers reshuffling religion/philosophy as part of a project of redefining the society: Qin Shihuangdi burning the books and burying the scholars of the 100 Schools, the persecution of Christians in the Tokugawa Period, the Meiji Government's elevation (invention, even) of State Shinto while suppressing Buddhism, Akbar's flirtation with constructing a syncretic Sufi-Hindu faith.

re: #122 Romantic Heretic

Can't speak for other NA cultures but my understanding is that the Aztec's conflicts were pretty much always driven by religion. It's how they got enough victims for their sacrifices.

In fact their weapons were designed to cripple rather than kill and they had strict rules about who could fight who.

Not surprising as among the Emperor's many titles was, "Our God, our enemy, our murderer."

The Aztec situation is still up for a lot of debate: their practices seem to have been an exaggeration of an existing Mesoamerican religious complex in which divinities had to be fed by sacrifice to perpetuate the cosmos. Why they did it so much more...some feel it was a matter of fanatic devotion to their own patron deity; others feel the ritual sacrifice component gave a contextually-meaningful justification for maintaining and expanding their client state portfolio; one of the more outside interpretations is that the ritual sacrifice complex served as a cover for governance of client city-states through terror and purges, as flower wars and sacrificial levies meant continuous casualties amongst the nobility of their clients.

184

Renaissance_Man Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:19:02pm

re: #178 freetoken

The American version of these reality shows really stress conflict. Not only the cooking shows, but the dance shows, etc. It's a sad statement about our culture - obsessed with conflict, we need it apparently.

Have you seen the Australian version of the MasterChef series? Totally different vibe.

Australian Masterchef is a massive, massive cultural phenomenon there. I mean, they can run that show 6 nights a week, and it is watched faithfully by a quarter of the population.

185

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:19:47pm

re: #178 freetoken

The American version of these reality shows really stress conflict. Not only the cooking shows, but the dance shows, etc. It's a sad statement about our culture - obsessed with conflict, we need it apparently.

Have you seen the Australian version of the MasterChef series? Totally different vibe.

I saw a list of Iron Chef Australia episodes produced so far. No "Battle Vegemite" or "Battle Witchitty Grub" yet. I was disappointed.
;)

186

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:21:38pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

I real kitchens with professionals it is sort of a standard thing. I do object with the amateur cooking shows when they treat contestants like that. IN the UK versions of Ramsay's shows he is very different with home cooks. He turns into a cheerleader/food dork.

Those cooking shows and TV chefs are no where near showing what it's really like in a restaurant kitchen on any given night. This video shows what it's really like from lunch through dinner. It brought back many memories for me.

Youtube Video

187

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:22:14pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

The Aussie Junior MasterChef is pretty interesting, from a cultural view. The regular series is likewise. I think the key difference is the personalities hosting the shows - the Australian version hosts are just not as hostile as the American ones.

The US version of MasterChef (with Ramsey) was in the news a couple of times - once for some fauxtography, and another where the contestants relayed that they felt the conflict was forced.

The whole concept is owned by the Murdoch daughter (in-law), and apparently she follows her papa-in-law's despite of the American hoi-polloi.

188

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:23:41pm

re: #172 oaktree

Restaurant kitchens are high stress environments. There is a constant balance of stock to have just barely enough on hand to operate, but not so much that it goes to waste. And the slightest bit of waste just might get your ass kicked by that kind of owner.

I washed dishes at a popular spot in Seattle for a while. If I didn't get perfectly grease free with the speed of a superhero, the chefs would climb up my ass with crampons and a flame thrower.

189

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:23:49pm

re: #187 freetoken

pimf "spite"

190

Renaissance_Man Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:25:36pm

re: #187 freetoken

The Aussie Junior MasterChef is pretty interesting, from a cultural view. The regular series is likewise. I think the key difference is the personalities hosting the shows - the Australian version hosts are just not as hostile as the American ones.

The US version of MasterChef (with Ramsey) was in the news a couple of times - once for some fauxtography, and another where the contestants relayed that they felt the conflict was forced.

The whole concept is owned by the Murdoch daughter (in-law), and apparently she follows her papa-in-law's despite of the American hoi-polloi.

The Australian series has made a point of being as constructive and positive as possible, even as it follows all the regular reality tropes of forced conflict and unnecessary drama. Which series have you seen?

191

Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:26:01pm

re: #186 NJDhockeyfan

Those cooking shows and TV chefs are no where near showing what it's really like in a restaurant kitchen on any given night. This video shows what it's really like from lunch through dinner. It brought back many memories for me.

[Video]

Thanks, I haven't seen that episode before. Watching now.

192

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:26:20pm

re: #190 Renaissance_Man

The last two regular series, and the last junior one.

193

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:26:42pm

re: #188 Slumbering Behemoth

Restaurant kitchens are high stress environments. There is a constant balance of stock to have just barely enough on hand to operate, but not so much that it goes to waste. And the slightest bit of waste just might get your ass kicked by that kind of owner.

I washed dishes at a popular spot in Seattle for a while. If I didn't get perfectly grease free with the speed of a superhero, the chefs would climb up my ass with crampons and a flame thrower.

I loved the busy nights. The busier we were the more fun it was. Prepping sucked.

194

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:26:52pm

re: #188 Slumbering Behemoth

I washed dishes at a popular spot in Seattle for a while. If I didn't get the pots and pans perfectly grease free with the speed of a superhero, the chefs would climb up my ass with crampons and a flame thrower.

Yet at the same time, they'd fix me up just about anything I wanted to eat. I'd still have to eat it while washing dishes, though.

195

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:29:00pm

re: #193 NJDhockeyfan

Didn't stay long enough to make it to prep. I left dish-washing behind for a much better paying job...

... janitor.

196

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:29:08pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

Thanks, I haven't seen that episode before. Watching now.

It's one of his best. It show exactly what goes on behind the scenes of a normal day that most people don't know. They just go in, eat their food, and leave.

197

Renaissance_Man Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:29:27pm

re: #192 freetoken

The last two regular series, and the last junior one.

I've only seen the one before the most recent (Season 2), but I understand that to be the best one.

198

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:29:40pm

re: #188 Slumbering Behemoth

Restaurant kitchens are high stress environments. There is a constant balance of stock to have just barely enough on hand to operate, but not so much that it goes to waste. And the slightest bit of waste just might get your ass kicked by that kind of owner.

I washed dishes at a popular spot in Seattle for a while. If I didn't get perfectly grease free with the speed of a superhero, the chefs would climb up my ass with crampons and a flame thrower.

Yep. My BIL was a short order cook for years out in Steamboat Springs, and my sister worked as a waitress part-time as well. So I got lots of stories from them about kitchen and restaurant escapades.

I also used to read the "Waiter Rant" blog way back when. Though that concentrated more on the dining room than the kitchen itself.

199

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:34:45pm

re: #198 oaktree

Heh, where I worked, the waitresses were pampered idiots. Always putting broken glass in the bus tubs instead of the proper place.

There was one that would always solicit help for stuff (like hauling buckets of ice) by using the "I'm just a weak, helpless girl" schtick. I told her if she ever needed help, all she had to do was ask, but she better shove off with that "helpless girl" crap before my mom shows up and flattens your ass.

200

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:39:21pm

re: #165 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, unless you can tie it into something the average person can track, you might as well spike it.

No fair. One shot at a time, please.

201

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:40:33pm

re: #200 Naso Tang

No fair. One shot at a time, please.

I only have one shot glass.

202

Achilles Tang Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:43:42pm

re: #201 NJDhockeyfan

I only have one shot glass.

Use the other one.

Good night.

203

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:45:18pm

re: #200 Naso Tang

My bad. I'm a greedy punster. I have a tendency to really steam people's cabooses that way.

204

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:45:42pm

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

It's one of his best. It show exactly what goes on behind the scenes of a normal day that most people don't know. They just go in, eat their food, and leave.

There's lots to learn just watching a place's normal routine.

205

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:49:24pm

re: #204 Dark_Falcon

There's lots to learn just watching a place's normal routine.

It looks crazy behind the line but there is method to the madness.

206

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:52:44pm

re: #205 NJDhockeyfan

It looks crazy behind the line but there is method to the madness.

Sounds a lot like me. ;)

207

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:58:51pm

31 iconic photos

208

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:00:28pm

re: #193 NJDhockeyfan

I loved the busy nights. The busier we were the more fun it was. Prepping sucked.

The after shift parties can be blow outs.

209

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:00:41pm

re: #207 BigPapa

Tits or GTFO.

210

Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:00:43pm

CNN Breaking

Last US troops out of Iraq into Kuwait.
A moment worthy of contemplation.

211

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:03:26pm

re: #210 Rightwingconspirator

CNN Breaking

Last US troops out of Iraq into Kuwait.
A moment worthy of contemplation.

Indeed. Though it will be years before the final verdict can be rendered on the endeavor just completed.

212

EdDantes Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:07:40pm

Lighten up. It's just pandering. He's a politician! Don't be surprised.

//////////

213

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:12:58pm

re: #207 BigPapa

Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris together.

The only photo in history that can kick your tush, even while being 2D.

214

goddamnedfrank Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:13:11pm

John McCain is such a piece of shit:

“It is clear that this decision of a complete pullout of United States troops from Iraq was dictated by politics and not our national security interests,” McCain said, “I believe that history will judge this president’s leadership with scorn and disdain, with the scorn and disdain that it deserves.”

...

“The president never brought the full weight of his office to bear in shaping the politics and the events on the ground in Iraq so as to secure a residual presence of U.S. troops,” he said. “This left our commanders and our negotiators in Baghdad mostly trying to respond to events in Iraq, trying to shape events without the full influence of the American president behind them.”

Notice that McCain doesn't say what specifically Obama should have done to bully the Iraqis into allowing our troops to stay with immunity, he simply asserts that it was possible and should have been done. Never mind the additional number of troops that would have died, suffered brain damage or lost limbs, and nevermind the prospect of bullying a government we've insisted has been sovereign for years just to keep those troops in harms way.

I've never been more glad that that dangerous old fool lost the election.

215

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:16:10pm

This is interesting
Manning's sexual orientation raised in hearing

The young Army intelligence specialist accused of passing government secrets spent his 24th birthday in court Saturday as his lawyers argued his status as a gay soldier before the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" played an important role in his actions.

Lawyers for Pfc. Bradley Manning began laying out a defense to show that his struggles as a gay soldier in an environment hostile to homosexuality contributed to mental and emotional problems that should have barred him from having access to sensitive material.

216

Daniel Ballard Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:19:58pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

For the Iraqi people certainly. But for us the verdict has been in for some time. The weapons were not there. That staggering horrible fact outshines them all. IMO.

217

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:20:05pm

re: #215 BigPapa

This is interesting
Manning's sexual orientation raised in hearing

I file that under 'don't care'. He leaked a massive amount of classified materials, and unless he was legally insane I don't care what his mental state and motives were. He deserves a life sentence and ought to get one.

218

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:24:10pm

re: #217 Dark_Falcon

Materials that could get a lot of Iraqis and Americans killed. My sympathy for him lies in the same realm of unicorns and sugar plum faeries.

219

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:27:18pm

The only war between Church and State I've seen lately is various Christians trying to rewrite our national history.

Meanwhile, I saw that the local hot wings place uses halal certified poultry, and I decided to go ahead and order anyways.

Sharia never tasted so delicious.

220

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:31:04pm

re: #219 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I have a Butterball turkey thawing as we speak, in preparation for the xmas eve feast.

No presents this year, though, which is fine by me. Because fuck presents, I want food.

221

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:33:27pm

re: #220 Slumbering Behemoth

I have a Butterball turkey thawing as we speak, in preparation for the xmas eve feast.

No presents this year, though, which is fine by me. Because fuck presents, I want food.

At a certain age, if you wanted it, you already bought it for yourself.

I made a big mistake today and mistakenly took my only believer with me to buy something I normally put in my husband's stocking. This year it will have to be wrapped and under the tree, instead, lest someone get confused.

222

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:39:30pm

Here's a story about some people who are doing good:

Vets group seeks to smooth path to work for returning troops

Steve White knows firsthand just how difficult coming home from war can be.

A 1st Cavalry Platoon leader and acting company commander in Vietnam, White experienced the struggles of war and the challenges of readjusting to civilian life.

Now the executive director of Veterans Across America, White is working to help the new generation of veterans, mostly from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, find jobs.

"This group [of veterans] is extremely well-trained. It's just that they're coming home to a terrible economy, there are very few jobs for them, and they're just being dumped out on the street. We're doing our best to change that," says White, 67, who is anticipating increased work as a large-scale drawdown begins.

Almost all of the 40,000 American troops in Iraq are on their way home after President Barack Obama's order in October to withdraw them by the end of the year.

Through the VAA's Champion Mentor Program, veterans individually team up with a mentor who helps them on the road to employment. They do this through résumé evaluation and improvement, face-to-face meetings, and setting up professional networks for veterans to tap into.

The nonprofit organization has already helped more than 7,000 returning troops find jobs.

223

NJDhockeyfan Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:42:24pm

Was US Spy Drone Captured by Iranian Flying Saucer?

Of all the inventors making bold claims on the internet, Iranian nuclear engineer Mehran Tavakoli Keshe is perhaps the most enigmatic, and the most interesting. By allegedly harnessing a fusion reaction that manipulates dark matter, regular matter, and antimatter, he claims to have developed technologies that rival those in science fiction. As we reported last April, Keshe claims that years ago he gave the Iranian military his technology in order for them to produce flying saucers; and the alleged Iranian flying saucer that had popped up in the news last March was a result of that. He had offered it to NASA, but they poopooed it.

If his statements are true, these craft can do more than just manipulate gravity for propulsion. They can also produce force fields, emit tractor beams, generate unlimited amounts of clean energy, and have inertial damping systems that allow occupants to avoid feeling accelerations.

LOL. Has George Noory brought this up yet?

224

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:42:56pm

re: #221 EmmmieG

We're still doing the White Elephant thing this year ($10 limit), 'cuz that's always a hoot, but individual gift giving has been nixed. This year has kicked my extended family's ass financially.

225

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:44:23pm

re: #224 Slumbering Behemoth

We're still doing the White Elephant thing this year ($10 limit), 'cuz that's always a hoot, but individual gift giving has been nixed. This year has kicked my extended family's ass financially.

We had pretty much wrapped up shopping weeks ago, but the wife and I went out tonight and picked up some more stuff for the kids since I got a bonus I wasn't expecting.

226

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:47:29pm

re: #223 NJDhockeyfan

If his statements are true...

Ahahahaha!

227

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:47:33pm

Who knew a little Hex bug robot would be so popular?

228

danhenry1 Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:47:48pm

I don't get this part. In the Declaration 'endowed by their creator'. I always thought that statement was our gateway. That it referenced an individuals belief in 'whatever he thought of'., as his creator whether a supreme being, a tree, a turtle or whatever. It was the Constitution that ensures this. I believe that anyone who attempts to interpret this as anything other than this should also go after those 'savages'.

229

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:49:03pm

re: #227 prairiefire

Who knew a little Hex bug robot would be so popular?

Sold out at Toys r Us.

We got the kids a Mario Cart K'nex set, where you build the race track and race the carts on it.

230

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:50:40pm

re: #228 danhenry1

I don't get this part. In the Declaration 'endowed by their creator'. I always thought that statement was our gateway. That it referenced an individuals belief in 'whatever he thought of'., as his creator whether a supreme being, a tree, a turtle or whatever. It was the Constitution that ensures this. I believe that anyone who attempts to interpret this as anything other than this should also go after those 'savages'.

Its a well known fact the Constitution was meant to hold clues to the riddle of steel, but they don't want to teach that in schools today.

231

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:50:52pm

re: #229 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sold out at Toys r Us.

We got the kids a Mario Cart K'nex set, where you build the race track and race the carts on it.

That looked good, I saw the kits. We are giving the kids an XBox 360, no kinnect yet. Apparently my husband and I are Luddites. Oh, and my 14 year old will finally get a phone.

232

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:51:59pm

re: #225 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It's hard with kids. You have to get them something, and bills and mortgages are simply not fun kids to play with.

233

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:52:49pm

re: #227 prairiefire

Who knew a little Hex bug robot would be so popular?

My kids create big cardboard habitats for them. Then they lose them, because they're boys, and the hexbugs are small. Then they find them again and it's Christmas all over again.

234

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:53:45pm

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The riddle of steel? Fire cannot melt it.

Next riddle, please.

235

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:55:10pm

re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth

The riddle of steel? Fire cannot melt it.

Next riddle, please.

Youtube Video

236

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:55:30pm

re: #231 prairiefire

That looked good, I saw the kits. We are giving the kids an XBox 360, no kinnect yet. Apparently my husband and I are Luddites. Oh, and my 14 year old will finally get a phone.

Do you and the hubby have an interest in adopting an ancient, unfathomable horror?

237

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:57:03pm

re: #236 Slumbering Behemoth

Do you and the hubby have an interest in adopting an ancient, unfathomable horror?

That took me a minute.

238

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:57:51pm

re: #236 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure, we'll make room on the couch.

239

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:59:24pm

re: #164 NJDhockeyfan

Occupy activists stake camp at Obama office

I'm not sure what the hell they want.

Maybe Eisenhower rings a bell?

Youtube Video

240

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:59:53pm

re: #237 EmmmieG

O, hai!

241

bratwurst Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:01:42pm

re: #239 WindUpBird

Maybe Eisenhower rings a bell?

[Video]

That high taxing job killing liberal?!?!?

242

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:02:21pm

re: #238 prairiefire

Sure, we'll make room on the couch.

On second thought, no thank you.

243

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:03:09pm

Operatic super-babe Katherine Jenkins:

MP3 Audio

244

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:04:25pm

re: #3 EmmmieG

Isn't there a pagan celebration done at the solstice every year at Stonehenge?

My sister was there the next day a few years ago, and from what she heard it had been very crowded.

Yeah, English pagan groups use the stones for solstice rituals. Other sets of stones as well. They have permits, and all. The ones at Stonehenge and Avebury are very popular.

245

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:04:44pm

re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth

The riddle of steel? Fire cannot melt it.

Next riddle, please.

Thermite or super Thermite?

246

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:05:38pm

re: #243 freetoken

Tits or GT... OH DAMN!

247

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:05:54pm

re: #243 freetoken

Operatic super-babe Katherine Jenkins:

[Video]

Chris Cornell singing Ave Maria

Youtube Video

248

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:06:55pm

re: #8 theheat

BTW, I have two cute little artificial trees in my office. With ornaments. I'm calling them my atheist Christmas trees, and one has a string of Halloween lights on it, and there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it.

Nobody is making anyone not celebrate Christmas, or the holiday season, however they choose. It doesn't work that way here in the US. That WoC is one of the oldest lies in the fundie toolbox. Likewise, nobody has to celebrate it, they only have to endure the traffic and shopping, if that's how they see it.

I came home to find that my husband had constructed a Christmas tree out of stacked books and tinsel wreaths. He saw it on Reddit.

He used some of my books to create the base. I may substitute. I just don't think the book of Chasidic folktales about pious women is comfortable in there. Or the Eli Weisel.

It is very cute.

249

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:07:37pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

I came home to find that my husband had constructed a Christmas tree out of stacked books and tinsel wreaths. He saw it on Reddit.

He used some of my books to create the base. I may substitute. I just don't think the book of Chasidic folktales about pious women is comfortable in there. Or the Eli Weisel.

It is very cute.

I saw that. We have enough "homeless" books (need another bookcase) that we could make one.

250

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:08:03pm

re: #9 jaunte

“I believe that we should be able to have religious ornamentation and celebration in the public square."

"Unless it's Ashura, then we'll have to consider carefully what kind of nation we want."

Ashura is when Shiites do that intense cutting stuff, right?

251

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:10:15pm

re: #242 Slumbering Behemoth

On second thought, no thank you.

Ok, then.

252

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:11:37pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

Ashura is when Shiites do that intense cutting stuff, right?

_fuck

253

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:12:33pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

_fuck

I'm pretty sure that would be legal if you were cutting yourself, but the kids would be illegal, even under the banner of religion.

254

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:13:14pm

re: #75 ggt

I've never understood the perseverance of the blonde haired blue eyed Jesus.

Everyone draws or paints or whatever Jesus (and the whole Holy Family) in their own image.

The only problem with this is when you start trying to convince other people that Jesus looks like you, and not them.

255

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:15:28pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

Everyone draws or paints or whatever Jesus (and the whole Holy Family) in their own image.

The only problem with this is when you start trying to convince other people that Jesus looks like you, and not them.

I don't currently have a beard, nor do I plan on acquiring one.

256

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:15:53pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

The only problem with this is when you start trying to convince other people that Jesus looks like you, and not them.

This was a big hit at the last potluck.

257

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:16:33pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

Everyone draws or paints or whatever Jesus (and the whole Holy Family) in their own image.

The only problem with this is when you start trying to convince other people that Jesus looks like you, and not them.

Fairly accurate.

Image: 1101117-ok_03_05_2009_raptor_jesus_super.jpg

258

Firstinla Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:16:33pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

_fuck

Is this a sect within one of the two mainstream Islamist groups or do they all do it? Honest question.

259

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:17:21pm

re: #164 NJDhockeyfan

Occupy activists stake camp at Obama office

I'm not sure what the hell they want.

They want Obama to cut military spending, and dismantle our empire. Also, ponies.

260

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:17:41pm

re: #168 NJDhockeyfan

Are they going to stay until they are heard or until Obama will "dismantle our U.S. military empire"?

I think they're kind of doing this feel of the cable.

261

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:18:00pm

re: #131 BigPapa

I believe in the trinity:

Celery, onion, and bell peppers.

Fresh Coffee, cream and sugar!

Hey all!

262

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:18:35pm

re: #258 Firstinla

Is this a sect within one of the two mainstream Islamist groups or do they all do it? Honest question.

I don't have a good answer for you. I just typed "Ashura" into google and that's what popped up.

263

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:20:00pm

re: #256 Slumbering Behemoth

This was a big hit at the last potluck.

Cthulhu ate us for our sins.

264

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:20:15pm

re: #261 ggt

Fresh Coffee, ~~cream and sugar~~!

Hey all!

BLASPHEMER! WITCH! HERETIC!

265

prairiefire Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:21:02pm

Night, lizards.

266

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:21:08pm

re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth

BLASPHEMER! WITCH! HERETIC!

Yeah. It's hot chocolate with double whipped cream.

267

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:21:58pm

re: #266 EmmmieG

GAH! I am surrounded by inequity!

268

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:22:25pm

Fresh Coffee, CREAM AND SUGAR!!!!

roar!

don't believe me? click my football.

269

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:22:42pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

_fuck

Shiites can be highly hardcore.

270

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:23:36pm

re: #268 ggt

Fresh Coffee, CREAM AND SUGAR!!!

roar!

Last time I drank coffee was 1996.

271

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:24:41pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Last time I drank coffee was 1996.

I am ssooo sorry!

272

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:25:08pm

re: #268 ggt

Black, hot, and strong enough to melt steel. Period.

You are to coffee what "Twilight" is to vampires.

273

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:25:11pm

re: #258 Firstinla

Is this a sect within one of the two mainstream Islamist groups or do they all do it? Honest question.

It's a Shiite thing, not Sunni, and I don't think it's universal, just done in certain communities. Folk Islam. But I'm open to correction. I read a book about Shia this summer, and that's about the limits of my knowledge. Oh yeah, and there's a little about it in _Persepolis_.

274

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:25:29pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

APOSTATE!

275

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:26:27pm

re: #272 Slumbering Behemoth

Black, hot, and strong enough to melt steel. Period.

You are to coffee what "Twilight" is to vampires.

purist

276

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:26:34pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

Kinda puts my own religious upbringing into perspective. Those poor kids.

277

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:27:10pm

re: #271 ggt

I am ssooo sorry!

So was I. It tasted terrible.

278

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:27:19pm

re: #276 Slumbering Behemoth

Kinda puts my own religious upbringing into perspective. Those poor kids.

Yeah, it can almost always be worse.

279

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:27:19pm

re: #217 Dark_Falcon

I file that under 'don't care'. He leaked a massive amount of classified materials, and unless he was legally insane I don't care what his mental state and motives were. He deserves a life sentence and ought to get one.

OK then. I guess there's no need for a trial.

280

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:29:30pm

re: #279 BigPapa

OK then. I guess there's no need for a trial.

Court martial.

281

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:32:51pm

re: #279 BigPapa

OK then. I guess there's no need for a trial.

The ~~trial~~ Court Martial is needed because he has pleaded Not Guilty, and thus the Army must prove his guilt, as mandated by our fundamental law. I know what I think about Manning's guilt, but he has the right to a fair trial.

[corrected per Kragar's post]

282

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:33:17pm

re: #280 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Court martial.

I sit corrected.

283

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:33:59pm

re: #268 ggt

Fresh Coffee, CREAM AND SUGAR!!!

roar!

don't believe me? click my football.

[snicker]

284

Firstinla Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:34:18pm

re: #262 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't have a good answer for you. I just typed "Ashura" into google and that's what popped up.

Thank you. Realizing I was just being too lazy to do some research, I left and read several articles. Mainly it is a Shi'a tradition. Some of the leaders have been trying halt the gore. It might be politically incorrect to say this out loud, but there is an inherent violence in such practices that seem to be carried to an extreme by some.

285

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:35:16pm

re: #276 Slumbering Behemoth

Kinda puts my own religious upbringing into perspective. Those poor kids.

OK, I'm over at Wiki, and activating my memory banks. Ashura commemorates the martyrdom of Hussein, Mohammed's grandson, at the battle of Karbala, and the cutting, like other customs associated with the holiday, is an expression of grief. (You often see parades on Ashura, with people just looking grim as hell because they're sad about Hussein.)

Wiki says: As suffering and cutting the body with knives or chains (matam) have been prohibited by Shi'a marjas like Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran,[17] some Shi'a observe mourning with blood donation which is called "Qame Zani"[17] and flailing.[18] Yet some Shi'ite men and boys, considered heretics by some Muslim scholars, slash themselves with chains(zanjeer) or swords (talwar) and allow their blood to run freely.[18]

Certain rituals like the traditional flagellation ritual called Talwar zani (talwar ka matam or sometimes tatbir) using a sword or zanjeer zani or zanjeer matam, involving the use of a zanjeer (a chain with blades) are also performed.[19] These are religious customs that show solidarity with Husayn and his family. People mourn the fact that they were not present at the battle to fight and save Husayn and his family.[20][21]

Shia commonly believe that taking part in Ashura is to be absolved of sin[citation needed]. A popular Shia saying has it that, `a single tear shed for Husayn washes away a hundred sins.`[22]

So it sounds as though the cutting, although...er...memorable...is considered very non-mainstream in the Shiite world.

There's a scene in _A Suitable Boy_, where one of the Muslim characters is involved in an Ashura procession, and stops to talk to a Hindu friend. He says that basically, he thinks that Hussein wasn't all that, and the way the struggle for the control of Islam turned out was probably for the best, but not to mention that he said this to his father, who would disown him, or a courtesan they both know, who would probably kill him. (Saeeda Bai is very pious, in her way).

286

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:35:45pm

re: #279 BigPapa

OK then. I guess there's no need for a trial.

There is a need for a trial. I think DF's point was that he doesn't give a squirt for Manning's sexuality or the perceived/implied problems that might have been connected to it, it's all about the crimes he allegedly committed.

287

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:36:35pm

re: #286 Slumbering Behemoth

There is a need for a trial. I think DF's point was that he doesn't give a squirt for Manning's sexuality or the perceived/implied problems that might have been connected to it, it's all about the crimes he allegedly committed.

Your assessment is correct, SB.

288

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:37:40pm

re: #284 Firstinla

Thank you. Realizing I was just being too lazy to do some research, I left and read several articles. Mainly it is a Shi'a tradition. Some of the leaders have been trying halt the gore. It might be politically incorrect to say this out loud, but there is an inherent violence in such practices that seem to be carried to an extreme by some.

There's a health issue as well, I would think.

289

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:39:30pm

re: #284 Firstinla

Thank you. Realizing I was just being too lazy to do some research, I left and read several articles. Mainly it is a Shi'a tradition. Some of the leaders have been trying halt the gore. It might be politically incorrect to say this out loud, but there is an inherent violence in such practices that seem to be carried to an extreme by some.

There's a lot about Shia which I find appealling (which I think is probably due to my Irish Catholic background, oddly enough). I like folk religion. But, odd as it is to say these words, I'm with Khamenei on this.

290

Firstinla Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:39:40pm

re: #288 Slumbering Behemoth

There's a health issue as well, I would think.

With my jaundiced vision I would see phyical, mental and spiritual health issues.

291

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:42:17pm

re: #290 Firstinla

With my jaundiced vision I would see phyical, mental and spiritual health issues.

Self flagellation is so medieval.

292

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:42:51pm

re: #290 Firstinla

With my jaundiced vision I would see phyical, mental and spiritual health issues.

Well, I perceive public sex acts as a health hazard. Equally so, public bloodletting.

293

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:44:06pm

re: #292 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I perceive public sex acts as a health hazard. Equally so, public bloodletting.

The public can be a health hazard.

294

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:44:08pm

re: #290 Firstinla

With my jaundiced vision I would see phyical, mental and spiritual health issues.

There are parallels you could draw to the Sun Dance, say, or Catholic practices involving self-flagellation. The basic impulse is not all that uncommon in terms of religion.

295

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:44:19pm

re: #292 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I perceive public sex acts as a health hazard. Equally so, public bloodletting.

It's an even worse one, since it could very easily spread blood-borne diseases.

296

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:44:45pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

There are parallels you could draw to the Sun Dance, say, or Catholic practices involving self-flagellation. The basic impulse is not all that uncommon in terms of religion.

Or fetishes.

297

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:45:13pm

Anyway, now that I've totally freaked everyone out, and distracted us from Mitt Romney, I think we should ask: exactly what public displays of religion DOES Mitt want in the public sphere?

298

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:45:58pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

Anyway, now that I've totally freaked everyone out, and distracted us from Mitt Romney, I think we should ask: exactly what public displays of religion DOES Mitt want in the public sphere?

Anything that involves crosses and Jesus would probably be appropriate in his mind.

299

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:46:42pm

re: #286 Slumbering Behemoth

There is a need for a trial. I think DF's point was that he doesn't give a squirt for Manning's sexuality or the perceived/implied problems that might have been connected to it, it's all about the crimes he allegedly committed.

Yes, I get that. That's perfectly clear. DF doesn't care about motivations.

I thought it was of interest, whether it's a cynical ploy to gain sympathy before being punished for a very serious crime... or whether the defense makes a compelling case for some leniency.

300

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:47:25pm

re: #298 ggt

Anything that involves crosses and Jesus would probably be appropriate in his mind.

They crucify guys as part of the Good Friday observances in the Philippines. Would Mitt be for or against?

301

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:47:54pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

There are parallels you could draw to the Sun Dance, say, or Catholic practices involving self-flagellation. The basic impulse is not all that uncommon in terms of religion.

True, but those Shia who cut themselves take it to an unhealthy extreme. It also puts far too much focus on blood and death, rather than vowing to take up and continue Hussein's work. For the best way to honor the memory of a good man is not by tears and wailing, but by making his cause your own.

302

Firstinla Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:48:42pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

They crucify guys as part of the Good Friday observances in the Philippines. Would Mitt be for or against?

I think his brain cells can only imagine two things: a nativity set or a menorah.

303

darthstar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:49:37pm

Iowa needs an intervention. Unless they get control of their faith and soon, they're always going to be treated like fucking idiots who will do anything as long as the words "in Jesus' name" are applied.

304

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:50:23pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

They crucify guys as part of the Good Friday observances in the Philippines. Would Mitt be for or against?

Mormons don't do that, and we also don't display crosses.*

Ironically, Mormons use church property for creche collection displays and larger nativities. Temple Square, for example, is obviously church owned, and had a large nativity on the lawn--the last time I was there.

*Yes this is one of the contentious points

305

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:50:30pm

re: #293 ggt

Full Disclosure: I have been here once. But that's a paid for, indoor event, with proper door security.

If you buy that ticket, you know what ride your taking. It's when that kind of thing takes place in the "Public Square" that I begin to object.

306

Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:54:24pm

re: #299 BigPapa

Yes, I get that. That's perfectly clear. DF doesn't care about motivations.

I thought it was of interest, whether it's a cynical ploy to gain sympathy before being punished for a very serious crime... or whether the defense makes a compelling case for some leniency.

I'm reluctant to show leniency on this one. Bradley Manning acted with Depraved Indifference to the lives he was putting at risk. He let his anger allow him to put others at risk, and that is horrid.

But I'm no fading too fast to keep going. Good Noight.

307

Kronocide Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:57:59pm

Try StumbleUpon. It cures 'there's nothing on the internet' blues.

Select your interests then Stumble.

308

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:58:21pm

re: #303 darthstar

Iowa needs an intervention. Unless they get control of their faith and soon, they're always going to be treated like fucking idiots who will do anything as long as the words "in Jesus' name" are applied.

So, getting a suitable authority figure to tell Iowa "to stop planting corn, in Jesus' name" along with some goofy justification is now the goal? I expect that would cause many an exploding head.

309

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:59:39pm

re: #303 darthstar

Iowa needs an intervention. Unless they get control of their faith and soon, they're always going to be treated like fucking idiots who will do anything as long as the words "in Jesus' name" are applied.

I must point out Iowa's had same-sex marriage be legal for a couple of years, which my state hasn't.

310

darthstar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:00:34pm

re: #308 oaktree

So, getting a suitable authority figure to tell Iowa "to stop planting corn, in Jesus' name" along with some goofy justification is now the goal? I expect that would cause many an exploding head.

The Farm Bill tells them when to not plant corn.

311

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:01:30pm

re: #310 darthstar

The Farm Bill tells them when to not plant corn.

I thought it was the Old Farmer's Almanac?

312

darthstar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:02:02pm

re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist

I must point out Iowa's had same-sex marriage be legal for a couple of years, which my state hasn't.

Yes, yes...I know...but that's the Democratic side of the state. The GOP is in focus right now...can you imagine how painful it must be to live there when night and day all you hear are assholes like Bachmann and Romney and Gingrich appealing to your sense of superstition?

313

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:02:04pm

re: #299 BigPapa

Much clearer than "no need for a trial".

And motive is important in the legal sense, whether I or DF could care less about it in this case. If the idea is to connect the alleged crime to a personal motive on the part of the alleged criminal, then he's doubly screwed.

314

darthstar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:02:31pm

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought it was the Old Farmer's Almanac?

The Almanac doesn't tell them when they will get paid not to grow.

315

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:03:06pm

Meh. I am up far too late. Time for bed.

316

Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:04:23pm

Been having fun with photoshop and puppy pictures!

317

darthstar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:05:23pm

Emmie's right...it's bed time...had a great evening. Dinner at a fancy French joint in the city with the folks (story to be shared tomorrow - but think veal sweet breads until then...yum.), then stopping by a friend's for an Xmas party where even more phenomenal food was served.

318

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:05:25pm

re: #312 darthstar

Yes, yes...I know...but that's the Democratic side of the state. The GOP is in focus right now...can you imagine how painful it must be to live there when night and day all you hear are assholes like Bachmann and Romney and Gingrich appealing to your sense of superstition?

Not really. I can try to imagine, but having lived pretty much my entire life in a dark blue chunk of California where the likes of BR&G don't even try, it's difficult.

319

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:05:38pm

re: #314 darthstar

The Almanac doesn't tell them when they will get paid not to grow.

Not much of an Almanac, then, is it?

320

darthstar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:05:58pm

re: #319 SanFranciscoZionist

Not much of an Almanac, then, is it?

Ha!

321

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:09:25pm

re: #246 Slumbering Behemoth

Tits or GT... OH DAMN!

I figured you wouldn't like the music... but singer might help your bradycardia.

322

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:13:30pm

MP3 Audio

323

freetoken Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:16:47pm

re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist

I must point out Iowa's had same-sex marriage be legal for a couple of years, which my state hasn't.

But the judges lost their jobs, at least the ones whose turn it was to be able to be put on the ballot. All that stands in the way of the decision being overturn is a one seat majority for the Democratic party in the Iowa Senate, which could stop the effort to amend the Iowa constitution that the GOP in the state so dearly wants to do.

324

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:23:24pm

re: #321 freetoken

I figured you wouldn't like the music... but singer might help your bradycardia.

:(
I like all kinds of music, FT. Just because Metal is my first love, that does not mean that she is my only love.

325

simoom Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:30:33pm

Same answer, different article:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Romney added: “I think at school celebrations, at graduations, for instance, that we ought to be able to have prayer there. Now I’m not looking for teachers to have prayer every day in the classroom, but I do think that at special ceremonies -- graduation, football games and the like – that calling on our creator is a good idea, and to recognize that on this earth, there’s something more than just ourselves.”

Bolding is mine.

326

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:48:57pm

re: #325 simoom

Romney added: “I think at school celebrations, at graduations, for instance, that we ought to be able to have prayer there."

That's the funny thing about statements like that. There are no "Prayer Police" that run around schools slapping prayers out of children's heads, or the heads of the faculty for that matter.

Ought to be able? Any and every person is ought and able to pray in any environment they wish to.

Where the schism hits the road is when gov't agencies endorse, lead, or compel specific, sectarian prayer.

327

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:53:00pm

re: #325 simoom

Same answer, different article:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Bolding is mine.

I guess he would be fine with it just on the appropriate Christian holidays and such.

Thats so much better.
/

328

SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:53:04pm

re: #326 Slumbering Behemoth

That's the funny thing about statements like that. There are no "Prayer Police" that run around schools slapping prayers out of children's heads, or the heads of the faculty for that matter.

Ought to be able? Any and every person is ought and able to pray in any environment they wish to.

Where the schism hits the road is when gov't agencies endorse, lead, or compel specific, sectarian prayer.

That's not what Mitt wants. Mitt wants for the principal to lead the audience in prayer, from the stage, at graduation.

329

Kragar Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:56:21pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not what Mitt wants. Mitt wants for the principal to lead the audience in prayer, from the stage, at graduation.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, Parents and Staff, please join me ... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

330

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:06:14am

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not what Mitt wants. Mitt wants for the principal to lead the audience in prayer, from the stage, at graduation.

Then he should send his child(ren) to parochial school.

331

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:07:29am

Who was googling?

I have an add for Christian Addiction Recovery at the top of my page. I didn't cause it!

332

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:20:34am

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not what Mitt wants. Mitt wants for the principal to lead the audience in prayer, from the stage, at graduation.

I highly doubt that is "What Mitt Wants". Sounds like a fun "What If" party game to play, eh? "What Mitt Wants". This weekend it could be one thing, the next weekend, another.

Anyway, I highly doubt that is what he really wants. He's playing to a base that he foolishly thinks will accept him if he hits the right notes. Should that base have their say in the direction of this country, Mitt's kith would be as marginalized as any other "outsider" group, and he knows it.

He's making a cynical, transparent shot at "I'm Christian Just Like You", which I think will fail miserably because he does not seem to understand the singular, bigoted nature of the "target market" which he is trying to appeal to.

He can "god-bother" all he likes to that target market, but they will never accept a Mormon.

333

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:24:22am

re: #332 Slumbering Behemoth

I highly doubt that is "What Mitt Wants". Sounds like a fun "What If" party game to play, eh? "What Mitt Wants". This weekend it could be one thing, the next weekend, another.

Anyway, I highly doubt that is what he really wants. He's playing to a base that he foolishly thinks will accept him if he hits the right notes. Should that base have their say in the direction of this country, Mitt's kith would be as marginalized as any other "outsider" group, and he knows it.

He's making a cynical, transparent shot at "I'm Christian Just Like You", which I think will fail miserably because he does not seem to understand the singular, bigoted nature of the "target market" which he is trying to appeal to.

He can "god-bother" all he likes to that target market, but they will never accept a Mormon.

What Mitt Wants . . .

is to be POTUS.

334

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:36:41am

re: #333 ggt

I doubt he will get the nomination. Too many things working against him.

In my uneducated opinion, it will either go to Newt or Rick. I would love to see it go to Ron, though, if only that would make my fellow republicans pull their gawt damned heads out of their asses.

At any rate, considering the losers the GOP is fielding, my republican ass will be voting for the incumbent.

And if any of the reactionaries want to call me a RINO, they can. Because it is true. But following the next primary, I will be RINO no more.

335

freetoken Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:37:43am

MP3 Audio

336

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:38:26am

I still think it's going to be Mitt. And Obama will win in 2012.

337

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:40:06am

Night all!

338

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Dec 18, 2011 12:50:47am

re: #336 ggt

1) He's Mormon
2) He's a known "flip flopper" who once favored abortion and socialist health care (not my take, but the general perception)
3) He's Mormon

If he gets the nomination I'll be surprised. Somewhere inside me I think Perry will end up on top of this embarrassing debacle. Not winning the POTUS seat, but winning the GOP nom.

339

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:20:42am

Morning, all.

340

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:23:37am

re: #339 researchok

Morning, all.

howdy... hozzit going?

341

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:25:04am

re: #340 boxhead

howdy... hozzit going?

Going good...listening to FT's Pavarotti, coffee...

Life is OK.

342

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:25:41am

American children cannot “openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school,” Perry says in the ad.

I have not see this. Nothing but Christmas stuff going on around here. And no one is stopping a student from praying in school privately. What is not allowed is for schools to force prayer upon students.

343

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:27:33am

re: #342 boxhead

I have not see this. Nothing but Christmas stuff going on around here. And no one is stopping a student from praying in school privately. What is not allowed is for schools to force prayer upon students.

Perry is an idiot.

I'm telling you, listen to FT's music link.

Pav and choir....makes me want to give up politics.

344

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:29:28am

re: #341 researchok

Going good...listening to FT's Pavarotti, coffee...

Life is OK.

cool... I am winding down. sleep soon... doing volunteer work at a VFW tomorrow. We make a kick ass breakfast once a month to raise funds that go to Veteran causes. It is quite fun... we act like a bunch of nuts... of course being fueled by bloody marys helps... LOL

345

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:31:25am

re: #343 researchok

Perry is an idiot.

I'm telling you, listen to FT's music link.

Pav and choir...makes me want to give up politics.

good choice.... yes.. Perry is an idiot. So are the rest of the GOP candidates. It is like the GOP leaders are pulling an epic prank on USA and the world. But the horrific thing is that they are serious....

arrrrrrrr

346

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:31:57am

re: #344 boxhead

That's very cool, that you do the VFW stuff.

Way cool.

Hands on beats writing a check every time. On lots of levels.

347

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:33:57am

re: #345 boxhead

good choice... yes.. Perry is an idiot. So are the rest of the GOP candidates. It is like the GOP leaders are pulling an epic prank on USA and the world. But the horrific thing is that they are serious...

arrr

Agreed. The only one with half a brain is Huntsman. Besides the auto skewering he'll get from the hard left, he seems to be pretty even keeled.

He's reasonable, therefore un electable.

348

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:35:16am

re: #346 researchok

That's very cool, that you do the VFW stuff.

Way cool.

Hands on beats writinga check every time. On lots of levels.

yep... I have met a lot of good people there. I figured that if I wanted to help out in the community, doing so for our Veterans was about the best choice.

349

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:36:32am

re: #347 researchok

Agreed. The only one with half a brain is Huntsman. Besides the auto skewering he'll get from the hard left, he seems to be pretty even keeled.

He's reasonable, therefore un electable.

yeah... I do like Huntsman. Appears honest, intelligent, thoughtful.... all qualities the Right hates... *sigh*

350

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:37:12am

re: #348 boxhead

Props to you for that.

Hands on low tech beats high tech any day.

Every day.

351

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:38:06am

re: #349 boxhead

yeah... I do like Huntsman. Appears honest, intelligent, thoughtful... all qualities the Right hates... *sigh*

And that's why he'll be a barely remembered footnote in election 2012

352

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:38:50am

thanks.... plus being a Mens Auxiliary member lets me into the Canteen where beers are $2. heh

353

researchok Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:40:25am

re: #352 boxhead

The divine reward for good works.

354

boxhead Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:42:59am

lol.... and on that note.... good night!

355

Kragar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 2:12:13am

So, playing Skyrim, I seem to have become the servant for at least 2 different gods of chaos and death.

Open worlds can be very bad sometimes.

356

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 2:14:46am

re: #355 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Those questlines are a little railroady, which I dislike, so I normally agree to do whatever the dark god wants and then smash his/her priest's brains out with a mace from behind. If I haven't already done so.

357

Kragar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 2:17:47am

re: #356 Obdicut

Those questlines are a little railroady, which I dislike, so I normally agree to do whatever the dark god wants and then smash his/her priest's brains out with a mace from behind. If I haven't already done so.

I just went with the flow and the next thing I knew, I was the chosen one for the Dark Brotherhood, the appointed champion for the god of Chaos and had a sword whispering at me to doublecross people to unlock its power.

Its a slippery slope.

358

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 2:22:47am

re: #357 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I just went with the flow and the next thing I knew, I was the chosen one for the Dark Brotherhood, the appointed champion for the god of Chaos and had a sword whispering at me to doublecross people to unlock its power.

Its a slippery slope.

In other words, you've joined the contenders for the Republican nomination for the presidency.

359

Kragar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 2:24:33am

re: #358 Obdicut

In other words, you've joined the contenders for the Republican nomination for the presidency.

No, because I haven't found Jesus yet.

No clue where that quest chain starts.

360

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 2:53:31am

re: #359 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, because I haven't found Jesus yet.

No clue where that quest chain starts.

Judging by what you've joined so far, that would be a search&destroy mission.

361

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:22:54am

*dancing on the body of the slaughtered thread*

362

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:35:19am

re: #361 Sergey Romanov

It's a sunday morning. Slowness is to be expected.

Me, I've got another 14 hour workday ahead of me, I figure. Or, rather, 11 more hours out of 14.

363

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:37:11am

re: #362 Obdicut

Is it enjoyable at least?

364

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:41:45am

Morning Folks

365

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:44:09am

re: #364 RogueOne

Hey there.

366

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:45:08am

re: #364 RogueOne

Have you tried to follow up on that NDAA question?

367

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:50:15am

re: #366 Sergey Romanov

No. Yesterday was an internet free day....mostly. Went to lunch with some friends while our wives shopped and then sat around smoking, drinking and playing games until the spouses finally finished up. I'm moving a little slow this morning.

368

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:53:56am

re: #367 RogueOne

Youtube Video

369

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 4:54:38am

re: #363 Sergey Romanov

Is it enjoyable at least?

Nope. Tedium with a lot of really tricky figuring-stuff out.

But it's got to get done, and setting it up well now will save me oodles of time down the road.

Now, here's a 20 minute block of trancy-electronica.

Youtube Video

370

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:00:40am

re: #368 Sergey Romanov

That series cracks me up. The women folk spent almost 10 hours in the busiest malls in the state giving us plenty of time to smoke so much that I had to leave my truck at my buddies. I'm pretty sure I ate about 8lbs of munchie foods including some pickled herring on peanut butter crackers. It sounded really good at the time.

371

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:03:39am

Just saw that Gross put up a page about Vaclav Havel dying. What a shame:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

372

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:11:10am

Had Mitt Romney been around prior to the American revolution he would likely have announced his loyalty to the Church of England and King George III. Ironically, Mr. Romney's next task is to continue his attempt to have the majority Christian fundamentalist Republican base accept his faith.

373

Shropshire_Slasher Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:14:49am

re: #372 Gus 802

Hey Gus!
I'm glad to see you are back.
I really missed your one liners, although sometimes I had no idea what you were talking about!

374

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:15:18am

And for the grammatically challenged who take great offense to the greeting "Happy Holidays!" I present the etymology of the word, holiday:

holiday 1500s, earlier haliday (c.1200), from O.E. haligdæg "holy day; Sabbath," from halig "holy" (see holy) + dæg "day" (see day); in 14c. meaning both "religious festival" and "day of recreation," but pronunciation and sense diverged 16c. As a verb meaning "to pass the holidays" by 1869.

¿Comprende?

375

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:16:22am

Man Arrested After Police Say He Was Taunting Drivers in Street
[Link: www.beatcalls.com...]

COLORADO – A 25-year-old man was arrested Friday after police say he was walking down the center of a street taunting drivers.

The incident happened around 2:29 a.m. in the middle of Broadway near 15th Street in Boulder.

Officers say the man told them he was “conducting a study” of whether drivers were concerned for his welfare.

Alcohol is believed to be involved.

376

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:17:41am

re: #373 Shropshire_Slasher

Hey Gus!
I'm glad to see you are back.
I really missed your one liners, although sometimes I had no idea what you were talking about!

Happy Holidays! Now, what was I talking about? //

377

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:19:31am

Interesting how Romney engages in specifically theofascist rhetoric. I don't know if he babbles about a "Christian nation" anywhere, but here he at least includes other faiths (lip service, of course; I assume Muslims are right out). So it's all against those damn atheists.

378

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:20:28am

re: #375 RogueOne

Alcohol is believed to be involved.

Alcohol is still at large.

379

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:21:16am

re: #377 Sergey Romanov

Interesting how Romney engages in specifically theofascist rhetoric. I don't know if he babbles about a "Christian nation" anywhere, but here he at least includes other faiths (lip service, of course; I assume Muslims are right out). So it's all against those damn atheists.

The war on Christmas goes on! Atheists! We attack at dawn!

380

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:28:40am

re: #366 Sergey Romanov

Have you tried to follow up on that NDAA question?

Al Franken: Why I Voted Against the National Defense Authorization Act
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Yesterday, the Senate passed a bill that includes provisions on detention that I found simply unacceptable. These provisions are inconsistent with the liberties and freedoms that are at the core of the system our Founders established. And while I did in fact vote for an earlier version of the legislation, I did so with the hope that the final version would be significantly improved. That didn't happen, and so I could not support the final bill.

The bill that passed on Thursday included several problematic provisions, the worst of which could allow the military to detain Americans indefinitely, without charge or trial, even if they're captured in the U.S.

381

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:28:41am

re: #377 Sergey Romanov

Interesting how Romney engages in specifically theofascist rhetoric. I don't know if he babbles about a "Christian nation" anywhere, but here he at least includes other faiths (lip service, of course; I assume Muslims are right out). So it's all against those damn atheists.

I really don't feel that it is. I think it's against those who would like the state and religion to be highly separate-- which includes a large number of non-atheists. And the lip-service is obviously just that; there's not enough room in the public sphere for all faiths. The actual outcome is obviously to allow whatever local flavor of Christianity is dominant to occupy the public square.

382

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:28:57am

A Muslim, a Jew and an atheist walk into a bar. They're not going to talk about religion but instead talk about baseball -- something they share in common. The Muslim orders a shot of Johnnie Walker Red.

383

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:30:36am

re: #379 Gus 802

The war on Christmas goes on! Atheists! We attack at dawn!

//

So that supposed star is really just a flare to signal the beginning of the assault?
//

384

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:31:01am

re: #382 Gus 802

"Mr Walker's Amber Restorative"

385

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:34:03am

re: #381 Obdicut

Of course the argument is against all those who defend the separation wall, but it's only a part of his point. The other part boils down to elevation of theism over non-theism. It works in one direction: he would not say that explicit atheism should be allowed in the public sphere. Only faith, only something that acknowledges god.

386

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:35:08am

re: #381 Obdicut

I really don't feel that it is. I think it's against those who would like the state and religion to be highly separate-- which includes a large number of non-atheists. And the lip-service is obviously just that; there's not enough room in the public sphere for all faiths. The actual outcome is obviously to allow whatever local flavor of Christianity is dominant to occupy the public square.

And even his other statement that mentions not forcing it every day reeks. I'm sure it just went over his head how awful it would feel to be attending your graduation and then suddenly be asked to take part in a public prayer to a deity you do not worship (or at least do not worship in the denomination and methods being asked to in that occasion.) Awkward and social pressuring.

Dodging that by having multiple prayers (or even an attempt at a non-denominational one) would still miss some of the audience, and also distract from the intent of the ceremony -- you're celebrating the people completing a task.

387

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:36:10am

re: #380 RogueOne

Franken, who supported the Iraq war, is not a "leftist hippie" when it comes to these issues, IMHO. So that's interesting. Still, I would love some official statement to clear things up...

388

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:45:30am

re: #387 Sergey Romanov

Franken, who supported the Iraq war, is not a "leftist hippie" when it comes to these issues, IMHO. So that's interesting. Still, I would love some official statement to clear things up...

This is from a recent press briefing:

Q You had objections to the defense bill; you’ve dropped them. There’s still a lot of civil liberties experts who are convinced that that bill contains the seed of the future detention of U.S. citizens indeterminately if they’re suspected of terrorism. Are you really that convinced that there was a big enough change that you’d drop an important issue like this?

MR. CARNEY: Well, let me make clear that this was not the preferred approach of this administration, and we made clear that any bill that challenges or constrains the President’s critical authorities to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists, and protect the nation would prompt the President’s senior advisors to recommend a veto.

After intensive engagement by senior administration officials, the administration has succeeded in prompting the authors of the detainee provisions to make several important changes, including the removal of problematic provisions.

While we remain concerned about the uncertainty that this law will create for our counterterrorism professionals, the most recent changes give the President additional discretion in determining how the law will be implemented, consistent with our values and the rule of law, which are at the heart of our country’s strength.

This legislation authorizes critical funding for military personnel overseas, and its passage sends an important signal that Congress supports our efforts as we end the war in Iraq and transition to Afghan lead, while ensuring that our military can meet the challenges of the 21st century.

On the provision in particular that you reference, it does not increase or otherwise change any of our authorities in regard to detention of American citizens. It is simply a restatement of the authorities that were granted to the President in 2001.

Q Is this just a recognition that ultimately the courts would settle disputes like that?

MR. CARNEY: No, the changes give discretion to the President in the implementation of this law. If, as this law is being implemented, the President feels that our counterterrorism professionals are being constrained and that their flexibility is being constrained in a way that does not reflect our values, then he will ask for changes. He will go to the authors of these provisions and ask for legislative changes that are separate from the defense authorization bill.

But again, the changes that were made were sufficient to allow senior advisors to withdraw the recommendation of a veto, but we are still concerned about the uncertainty that this law creates.

It's a bit troubling to see Mr. Carney respond with "no" to the question, "Is this just a recognition that ultimately the courts would settle disputes like that?" This is simply not true since all legislation and law is subject or open to judicial review. It may not be "decided" in a court of law but there is no doubt that it will one day face a judicial challenge. Mr. Carney seems to have forgotten about the three branches of government.

389

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:45:40am

re: #385 Sergey Romanov

Of course the argument is against all those who defend the separation wall, but it's only a part of his point. The other part boils down to elevation of theism over non-theism. It works in one direction: he would not say that explicit atheism should be allowed in the public sphere. Only faith, only something that acknowledges god.

Sure. My only point is that this is just as vituperative an attack on those religious people who aren't religiousy enough. It doesn't just raise theism over non-theism, but sweaty, overactive theism over "my religion is my own affair" theism.

390

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:47:20am

re: #388 Gus 802

This is from a recent press briefing:

It's a bit troubling to see Mr. Carney respond with "no" to the question, "Is this just a recognition that ultimately the courts would settle disputes like that?" This is simply not true since all legislation and law is subject or open to judicial review. It may not be "decided" in a court of law but there is no doubt that it will one day face a judicial challenge. Mr. Carney seems to have forgotten about the three branches of government.

I think he was responding to the 'just' part, rather than pulling a Gingrich.

391

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:48:31am

re: #387 Sergey Romanov

..and I'm still undecided over how I feel about the whole issue. I think the feds can make a case for why it's necessary but I'm having a tough time getting past letting a president make the determination by themselves. IIRC, the argument regarding the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki went along the lines of "the president didn't authorize it on his own, it was a joint decision with a board whose appointees were put there by the president" is a distinction without much of a difference.

392

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:52:22am

re: #390 Obdicut

I think he was responding to the 'just' part, rather than pulling a Gingrich.

Yeah. And it's just a press briefing and not itself an analysis nor a judicial review of the legislation. Carney is just responding as best as possible as with all WH press conferences.

393

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:52:32am

re: #391 RogueOne

I forgot what your take on the killing of Awlaki was :P

394

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:53:38am

SantaCon 2011

Is this a "War on Santa Claus?"

395

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:54:22am

Image: 66844627.jpg

396

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:55:02am

re: #393 Sergey Romanov

I forgot what your take on the killing of Awlaki was :P

A: The asshole had it coming
B: with some qualms over allowing the executive branch alone decide
c: This time we all (mostly all) agree with the decision but what happens when/if we don't?

397

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 5:56:29am

re: #396 RogueOne

The last one is always the bitch*, huh. :)

---

* Is the word offensive in such context?

398

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:01:22am

re: #396 RogueOne

There's a Russian proverb - the law is like an axle — you can turn it whichever way you please. I guess if some killing in the future will fall under the last option in the minds of a future majority, it will suddenly turn out that it's not legal after all, or at least was not legal the way it'd been done before.

399

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:05:05am

That's sick.

[Link: www.miamiherald.com...]

400

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:05:12am

RE: the war on xmas. As an atheist I'm not sure why it's supposed to bother me that most people believe in god and want to celebrate their xmas/Hanukkah holidays stringing up lights and christmas trees/menoras. I think atheists putting up billboards/displays antagonizing believers is more offensive than seeing the word "christ" displayed on the courthouse lawn.

OTOH, displays like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is hilarious. I guess the difference is one is using humor and the other is thin-skinned outrage. If it really bothers you that people believe that christmas is about the birth of jesus then you're probably the one with the problem.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Then came the mannequin Luke Skywalker and signs celebrating the winter solstice. [funny] This month, a skeleton Santa Claus was mounted on a cross, intended by its creator to portray society’s obsession with consumerism. A pine stands adorned with tinsel — and atheist testimonials. (“I can be moral without religion,” one declares.)[thin skinned]

Members of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are scheduled to put up their contribution this weekend. It’s a banner portraying a Nativity-style scene, but Jesus is nowhere to be found. Instead, the Virgin Mary cradles a stalk-eyed noodle-and-meatball creature, and the manger is surrounded by pirates, a solemn gnome and barnyard animals. The message proclaims: “Touched by an Angelhair.”[very funny]

401

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:07:31am

re: #400 RogueOne

It's a reaction of a minority against a reactionary majority. Not always pretty, for sure, but the majority is not the victim here.

402

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:08:22am

re: #398 Sergey Romanov

There's a Russian proverb - the law is like an axle — you can turn it whichever way you please. I guess if some killing in the future will fall under the last option in the minds of a future majority, it will suddenly turn out that it's not legal after all, or at least was not legal the way it'd been done before.

Which makes me think. Do we honestly believe Anwar al-Awlaki would have been taken out had he been hiding somewhere in say Saudi Arabia as opposed to Yemen?

403

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:08:41am

re: #400 RogueOne

RE: the war on xmas. As an atheist I'm not sure why it's supposed to bother me that most people believe in god and want to celebrate their xmas/Hanukkah holidays stringing up lights and christmas trees/menoras.

Who says it's supposed to bother you, exactly?

404

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:12:02am

Big Atheism™ is keeping religion down man!

405

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:13:02am

re: #404 Gus 802

Big Atheism™ is keeping religion down man!

//

Quick, Andy, start a new site!

406

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:13:08am

re: #404 Gus 802

Big Atheism™ is keeping religion down man!

//

I can only see 5 Christmas displays and six menorahs from my window. Oh, the humanity.

407

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:13:57am

re: #406 Obdicut

I can only see 5 Christmas displays and six menorahs from my window. Oh, the humanity.

Just 11 religious displays?! America on the brink of Communism!

408

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:14:16am

re: #406 Obdicut

I do love that every dry-cleaners has a menorah up, even though Hanukkah hasn't started yet. It's nice of them to try, though.

409

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:16:20am

The minimum quota for the religious symbols per the square decimeter of window glass is 5!

410

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:17:17am

re: #409 Sergey Romanov

The minimum quota for the religious symbols per the square decimeter of window glass is 5!

Decimeter?
GTFO with your unholy metric system!

Also, good morning.

411

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:18:20am

re: #406 Obdicut

I can only see 5 Christmas displays and six menorahs from my window. Oh, the humanity.

I can't see any other than some Christmas lights. Yesterday I saw a parked vehicle with an Obama bumper sticker and what looked like a statue of Jesus on the dashboard. Now, around here when you go out to the burbs there's one church after the other. Unfortunately most seemed to have been designed during the 1970s. I did grab a Christmas ornament at my local store the other day and after seeing that it would make a good top I spun it around and said, "oh look, a dradle!"

412

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:19:02am

[Link: www.eurogamer.net...]

Gargantuan fantasy role-playing game Skyrim is the fastest-selling game in Steam's history, Valve has revealed.

[...]

According to Bethesda parent company ZeniMax, a whopping 10 million units of Skyrim have been shipped for the PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions.
This, the company said, represents around $650 million in retail sales since launch.

I'm glad for the guys. May they churn out more and better games.

413

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:19:36am

re: #409 Sergey Romanov

The minimum quota for the religious symbols per the square decimeter of window glass is 5!

Can you do something involving hectares?

414

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:20:02am

re: #410 Varek Raith

Decimeter?
GTFO with your unholy metric system!

Also, good morning.

Do you grok the metric system? I really don't grok the Imperial one. I'm always dumbfounded when I see inches, gallons and such mentioned.

415

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:20:47am

re: #414 Sergey Romanov

Do you grok the matric system? I really don't grok the Imperial one. I'm always dumbfounded when I see inches, gallons and such mentioned.

I know both.
I just like messing with the metric system.
Also, people who drive on the wrong side of the road.
:P

416

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:21:05am

re: #413 Gus 802

Can you do something involving hectares?

Yes, but there is no such large number in the American Numeric System. :P

417

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:21:30am

re: #416 Sergey Romanov

Yes, but there is no such large number in the American Numeric System. :P

AUs.
/

418

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:22:00am

re: #417 Varek Raith

AUs.
/

I'll just go with googol.

419

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:22:23am

re: #414 Sergey Romanov

Do you grok the metric system? I really don't grok the Imperial one. I'm always dumbfounded when I see inches, gallons and such mentioned.

I only use the smoot.

420

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:24:46am

re: #410 Varek Raith

Decimeter?
GTFO with your unholy metric system!

Also, good morning.

I only measure in "Freedom Units". Feet and inches man! A product of good old fashioned American ingenuity!

421

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:25:19am

re: #403 Obdicut

Did you take that as me thinking atheists take their orders from the atheist hierarchy located in their central office in Omaha? Obviously not all atheists care about christmas decorations/declarations, at least I don't think I'm the only one, but it seems like quite a few are otherwise what's the point of putting up "atheist testimonials" during the holiday celebrations? They're either being unnecessarily antagonistic or being entirely too thin skinned, the same thing they accuse the Christians of being.

There is a difference between being atheist and being anti-religion. I'm of the mind that as long as your religion doesn't preach that it's your duty to kill all the atheists, homosexuals, and ban bacon you can worship whatever deity you feel necessary without me feeling the need to point out your religion is nuts. Wanna pray to mistress earth and her 3 virgin apostles (earth, wind, and fire) for providing your daily sustenance before we eat? Knock yourself out, it's no skin off of my nose.

422

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:25:52am

Let's see...

23'-5 3/8" X 12'-8 1/16 equals...

Blargh!

423

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:26:33am

re: #420 Gus 802

I only measure in "Freedom Units". Feet and inches man! A product of good old fashioned American ingenuity!

//

I like the idea of "freedom units". That's funny.

424

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:26:57am

re: #422 Gus 802

Let's see...

23'-5 3/8" X 12'-8 1/16 equals...

Blargh!

Ugg.

425

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:27:15am

re: #422 Gus 802

Let's see...

23'-5 3/8" X 12'-8 1/16 equals...

Blargh!

Wait!

[Link: www.wolframalpha.com...]

426

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:27:15am

re: #423 RogueOne

I like the idea of "freedom units". That's funny.

A length of 1 freedom fry.

427

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:27:44am

re: #422 Gus 802

Let's see...

23'-5 3/8" X 12'-8 1/16 equals...

Blargh!

Image: 2bdff45e72accaa07432ca6acaa23f96.png

428

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:28:28am

re: #424 Sergey Romanov

Ugg.

Yep. Just like the boots.

429

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:28:47am

re: #421 RogueOne

Did you take that as me thinking atheists take their orders from the atheist hierarchy located in their central office in Omaha?

Nope. I'm asking you who has said you're supposed to be upset. Can you point anyone out?

Obviously not all atheists care about christmas decorations/declarations, at least I don't think I'm the only one, but it seems like quite a few are otherwise what's the point of putting up "atheist testimonials" during the holiday celebrations?

Because they think atheism is true and they'd like to convince other people of it?

Not my flavor, but I have no idea why you interpret it as atheists being 'upset'.

As to all your 'no skin off my nose' thing, does that mean it's fine with you if the state endorses a religion?

430

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:29:31am

re: #427 Varek Raith

Image: 2bdff45e72accaa07432ca6acaa23f96.png

That calms my soul.

431

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:30:44am

Last U.S. Troops Leave Iraq, Ending War
Image: last-covoy-iraq-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

432

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:30:52am

Quinquagintaquadringentilliard

433

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:31:59am

re: #427 Varek Raith

Image: 2bdff45e72accaa07432ca6acaa23f96.png

Yeah. I would wind up using the calculator such as 23 x 12 + 5 + 3/8... Convert to inches first then multiply. Imperial Units are rather annoying even with design and architecture. No one uses it for science and physics. Even engineering units is superior to the fractional system.

434

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:32:51am

And don't bring up knots!

435

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:33:11am

Hands and fathoms.

Ugg.

436

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:33:12am

re: #432 Sergey Romanov

Quinquagintaquadringentilliard

Nongentillion

See why the Freedom System is superior?
/

437

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:34:18am

re: #435 Gus 802

Hands and fathoms.

Ugg.

Mile: statute, nautical or metric?

438

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:34:22am

re: #426 Sergey Romanov

A length of 1 freedom fry.

A McDonald's fry?

Fried in beef fat of course.

439

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:35:36am

re: #437 Sergey Romanov

Mile: statute, nautical or metric?

How much is that in cubits?

440

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:35:44am

re: #438 Gus 802

A McDonald's fry?

Fried in beef fat of course.

A platinum MacDonald's fry in the vault of American Bureau of Freedom Weights and Measures in Paris, Texas.

441

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:36:16am

re: #439 Gus 802

How much is that in cubits?

Look in your 2 Kings or somewhere in the Chronicles.

442

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:36:16am

re: #440 Sergey Romanov

A platinum MacDonald's fry in the vault of American Bureau of Freedom Weights and Measures in Paris, Texas.

Paris? I was thinking Plano.

443

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:36:45am

re: #439 Gus 802

How much is that in cubits?

Apples.

444

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:36:58am

re: #442 Gus 802

Paris? I was thinking Plano.

//

Gymnastic Capital of the World!

445

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:38:38am

re: #443 Varek Raith

Apples.

(23 3/32)³

Behold the superiority of fractions!

446

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:40:33am

The busing brouhaha continues:

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

447

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:41:52am

re: #429 Obdicut

Nope. I'm asking you who has said you're supposed to be upset. Can you point anyone out?

You're asking me to answer something that I never said. Obviously a lot of atheists are upset or they wouldn't be taking the time to put up "atheist testimonials" during xmas. What I said was "As an atheist I'm not sure why I should be upset"

Because they think atheism is true and they'd like to convince other people of it?

I think proselytizing during another religions holiday is a dick move. Remember the florida preacher who was passing out christian pamphlets in Michigan earlier this year? It was a dick move. I didn't say it shouldn't be legal only that there are better ways of making a point other than intentionally pissing off people who believe differently than you.

As to all your 'no skin off my nose' thing, does that mean it's fine with you if the state endorses a religion?

Not sure where you could get that impression. If the president wants to come out with a christmas declaration that shows his love of the baby jesus is so great that it would make Tim Tebow blush that's his right. OTOH, if he came out with a declaration to mandate that we all have to celebrate the "correct reason for the season" under penalty of the law that's a different story.

There are times to make a point and then there are times when it's best to keep your mouth shut. Holding a lunch time pork-fest during ramadan outside a mosque? Dick move. Saying god loved an avowed atheist like Hitchens so much he had to kill him? Dick move. Putting up banners saying god is dead or jesus is a fraud tied to xmas? Dick move.

448

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:43:15am

re: #446 Sergey Romanov

Here's what I don't get tho. Suppose there are some rules for separation, OK. Suppose there isn't a system of left/right sides division (rather than front/back), OK. Why demand the front seats? Make the back of the bus for males. Half of the outrage gone. But nooo, these fucks need to sit in front.

449

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:45:23am

re: #446 Sergey Romanov

The busing brouhaha continues:

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

Wow, speaking of dick moves, I had no idea that was even an issue.

450

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:45:30am

re: #448 Sergey Romanov

Here's what I don't get tho. Suppose there are some rules for separation, OK. Suppose there isn't a system of left/right sides division (rather than front/back), OK. Why demand the front seats? Make the back of the bus for males. Half of the outrage gone. But nooo, these fucks need to sit in front.

I have a solution. Everyone get on the bus and shut the feck up! No segregation according to gender!

Of course in Mexico they have all female buses in places. Different reasoning for that. Obviously.

451

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:46:16am

re: #434 Gus 802

And don't bring up knots!

No reason not to.

452

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:47:16am

re: #450 Gus 802

I have a solution. Everyone get on the bus and shut the feck up! No segregation according to gender!

Of course in Mexico they have all female buses in places. Different reasoning for that. Obviously.

That would be too easy for fundies. You know, easy things are for secularists. Fundies won't bow to the dictates of modernity, sinful outside world or common sense.

453

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:47:20am

re: #451 negativ

No reason not to.

The Incredible Mr. Limpet!

454

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:48:14am

re: #452 Sergey Romanov

That would be too easy for fundies. You know, easy things are for secularists. Fundies won't bow to the dictates of modernity, sinful outside world or common sense.

They can fund their own buses and leave the public ones to the freaking public.
;)

455

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:48:32am

re: #449 RogueOne

Wow, speaking of dick moves, I had no idea that was even an issue.

What rock have you been under?/// The busing issues has been discussed for a few weeks, and even Hillary inserted a word.

456

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:49:59am

re: #447 RogueOne

You're asking me to answer something that I never said. Obviously a lot of atheists are upset or they wouldn't be taking the time to put up "atheist testimonials" during xmas. What I said was "As an atheist I'm not sure why I should be upset"

That's not obvious at all. Why the hell do you think the motivation for that is 'being upset'? This is the bit you've failed to explain in the least.

I think proselytizing during another religions holiday is a dick move.

Wow. so you think Christmas is a dick move?

Not sure where you could get that impression.

Because the discussion is about state endorsement of religion.

457

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:50:33am

re: #455 Sergey Romanov

What rock have you been under?/// The busing issues has been discussed for a few weeks, and even Hillary inserted a word.

Hey, I've been busy fighting for the right of baby jesus to celebrate his own damn birthday buy buying lots of unnecessary crap nobody really needs 2 days after the holiday. Priorities.

458

Shropshire_Slasher Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:50:43am

re: #446 Sergey Romanov

They had a similar problem with busing in NYC

459

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:50:50am

Yeah. When I get on a bus I like to surround myself with men. Yep. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be around my fellow men folk. Who the heck would want to ride a bus and taking the chance that a woman!!11ty is sitting next to you.

460

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:52:19am

re: #459 Gus 802

Yeah. When I get on a bus I like to surround myself with men. Yep. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be around my fellow men folk. Who the heck would want to ride a bus and taking the change that a woman!!11ty is sitting next to you.

//

"Wrapping yourself in masculinity", it's called. There are even clubs for that sorta thing.

461

Shropshire_Slasher Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:52:43am

re: #457 RogueOne

I bought myself an electric knife sharpener (on Amazon of course) and I'll give it to my wife, perfect gift.

462

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:53:27am

re: #401 Sergey Romanov

It's a reaction of a minority against a reactionary majority. Not always pretty, for sure, but the majority is not the victim here.

I concur. And it appears that somethings a needle is needed in order to get some people to start thinking about things. A silent minority is often simply taken as accepting the status quo.

463

engineer cat Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:53:41am

happy dog morning guys

so, i'm watching the modern day bugs bunny, and in this episode he drinks too much energy drink (he bought it from yosemite sam who was hawking it because he needed money to keep from getting evicted) and bugs gets totally tweaked out and loses it

i can't believe this is what warner bros is showing kids

464

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:54:43am

re: #414 Sergey Romanov

Do you grok the metric system? I really don't grok the Imperial one. I'm always dumbfounded when I see inches, gallons and such mentioned.

Just convert it into furloughs per fortnight.

;)

465

Shropshire_Slasher Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:54:52am

re: #463 engineer dog

have you seen the old ones?
PC not.

466

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:56:25am

re: #459 Gus 802

re: #460 Sergey Romanov

Gay.

467

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:57:16am

re: #443 Varek Raith

Apples.

I think the new digital age version is Qberts.

468

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:58:42am

re: #388 Gus 802

This is from a recent press briefing:

It's a bit troubling to see Mr. Carney respond with "no" to the question, "Is this just a recognition that ultimately the courts would settle disputes like that?" This is simply not true since all legislation and law is subject or open to judicial review. It may not be "decided" in a court of law but there is no doubt that it will one day face a judicial challenge. Mr. Carney seems to have forgotten about the three branches of government.

I doubt he's forgotten. His motives for not bringing it up are twofold:

1. The deal is between the president and Congress. Best to keep the focus there and talk about the compromise. Bring up judicial review could be taken (by someone who wanted to depict Obama in a bad light) as "sour grapes" and a hope that "unelected judges will do be what President Obama was too weak to do".

2. It talk of judicial review would foster more of that utterly insane "Tenther" meme from Newt Gingrich, and that meme is not a path the president wants the GOP to go down. It would make an electoral victory for Barack Obama easier in 2012, but in the long run the whole nation would be the worse for it and I think both Carney and Obama understand this.

469

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 6:59:16am

re: #466 Varek Raith

re: #460 Sergey Romanov

Gay.

"He may look like a gay chap, but who knows if he's a queer sort."

Youtube Video

470

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:00:04am

I was reminded of this incident...

Fired bus driver gets $21,000 settlement after refusing ride to Planned Parenthood

The Capital Area Rural Transportation System has paid $21,000 to settle a lawsuit filed by a driver who was fired for refusing to take two women to a Planned Parenthood clinic last year.

Edwin Graning's lawsuit had claimed officials with the nine-county public transportation system, known as CARTS , discriminated against him based on his religion. Graning refused to drive the women because he had been "concerned that he might be transporting a client to undergo an abortion," said the lawsuit, which was filed last year in U.S. District Court in Austin.

System board members said they agreed to settle after determining that the cost of defending the suit could exceed the settlement amount...

Lame.

471

engineer cat Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:01:10am

re: #465 Shropshire_Slasher

have you seen the old ones?
PC not.

oh, i totally grew up on the ones from the 30s and 40s, but when i was a kid in the late 50s and early 60s they had the good sense not to run the racist ones, except for some nasty anti japanese ones from wwii

472

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:01:28am

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

I doubt he's forgotten. His motives for not bringing it up are twofold:

1. The deal is between the president and Congress. Best to keep the focus there and talk about the compromise. Bring up judicial review could be taken (by someone who wanted to depict Obama in a bad light) as "sour grapes" and a hope that "unelected judges will do be what President Obama was too weak to do".

2. It talk of judicial review would foster more of that utterly insane "Tenther" meme from Newt Gingrich, and that meme is not a path the president wants the GOP to go down. It would make an electoral victory for Barack Obama easier in 2012, but in the long run the whole nation would be the worse for it and I think both Carney and Obama understand this.

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks. There's the three branches of government which includes the legislative, executive AND judicial.

473

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:03:17am

re: #465 Shropshire_Slasher

have you seen the old ones?
PC not.

I prefer the old ones.

474

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:03:27am

re: #446 Sergey Romanov

The busing brouhaha continues:

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

For a woman defying a bigoted asshole's orders to move to the back of the bus, she has a near perfect name. Tanya Rosenblit has a last name that gives an excellent thematic link, don't you think?

475

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:04:42am

re: #474 Dark_Falcon

For a woman defying a bigoted asshole's orders to move to the back of the bus, she has a near perfect name. Tanya Rosenblit has a last name that gives an excellent thematic link, don't you think?

Yep, although I wouldn't make a straight comparison to Rosa Parks. In this case the law is, thankfully, on the side of the woman.

476

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:05:41am

re: #472 Gus 802

Doesn't matter what anyone thinks. There's the three branches of government which includes the legislative, executive AND judicial.

He knows that, but he didn't mention it to avoid a dust-up. The whole point of accepting the compromise is to quiet things down so everyone can be home for Christmas. Fact checking and truth telling can wait for the slow news days between Christmas and New Years.

477

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:05:51am

re: #475 Sergey Romanov

Yep, although I wouldn't make a straight comparison to Rosa Parks. In this case the law is, thankfully, on the side of the woman.

A secularist, no-religious-preferences-in-the-public-square law.

478

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:06:52am

re: #475 Sergey Romanov

Yep, although I wouldn't make a straight comparison to Rosa Parks. In this case the law is, thankfully, on the side of the woman.

Agreed and that is a relief. But these Ultra-Orthodox are getting bold, and something needs to be done to cut them back to size.

479

RogueOne Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:10:02am

I have work to do before the games start. Enjoy the day of football people! (except the commies who are probably going to watch figure skating or gymnastics or stand in line for bread or whatever it is they do on the lords day....)

480

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:10:48am

re: #478 Dark_Falcon

Agreed and that is a relief. But these Ultra-Orthodox are getting bold, and something needs to be done to cut them back to size.

I am confused by why the cop also asked her if she'd move to the back. She'd already answered that question before he got there.

481

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:10:58am

re: #479 RogueOne

I have work to do before the games start. Enjoy the day of football people! (except the commies who are probably going to watch figure skating or gymnastics or stand in line for bread or whatever it is they do on the lords day...)

I am a Redskins fan for 3 hours today.

482

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:14:07am

re: #480 Obdicut

Got peeved by that too. Perhaps his sympathies were with the fundies. Or he didn't want too much bother (donuts waiting!).

483

Shropshire_Slasher Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:14:52am

Public bus operated by Orthodox Jews make women sit at the back of the bus in NYC.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
I think they have since remedied the situation.

484

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:15:28am

re: #482 Sergey Romanov

Got peeved by that too. Perhaps his sympathies were with the fundies. Or he didn't want too much bother (donuts waiting!).

Probably the 'not too much bother' scenario. Most cops just want the situation to go away, rather than to actually protect civil rights. Not making a judgement, it's just the path of least likelihood of things getting ugly.

485

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:18:16am

re: #476 Dark_Falcon

He knows that, but he didn't mention it to avoid a dust-up. The whole point of accepting the compromise is to quiet things down so everyone can be home for Christmas. Fact checking and truth telling can wait for the slow news days between Christmas and New Years.

Things have gotten a little carried away in certain circles regarding this provision. I'm trying to see a legal option for any concerns and of course that includes a court of law. However, that doesn't seem to calm those who have decided that this "signals the end of America and impending martial law!" And of course that includes the usual talk about "FEMA camps!" revolving around this. Wish I was kidding.

486

engineer cat Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:20:22am

re: #473 Gus 802

I prefer the old ones.

me too, but i'm obsessed by anything from the 20s through the 40s

favorite warner bros cartoon: katnip kollege

487

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:20:29am

re: #485 Gus 802

I can't think of an entity less terrifying than FEMA to be pursued by.

"FEMA is after me!"

"So, we should expect them in a couple of weeks?"

488

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:21:30am

re: #487 Obdicut

I can't think of an entity less terrifying than FEMA to be pursued by.

"FEMA is after me!"

"So, we should expect them in a couple of weeks?"

Youtube Video

489

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:22:59am

re: #488 Sergey Romanov

Which itself was a callback to this:

Youtube Video

490

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:23:41am

Take that, fundies!

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

On the first day of the New Year, a group of men and women will enter segregated buses designated for ultra-Orthodox Jews, as an act of protest against gender segregation.

Over 500 people have already signed up for the event on its Facebook, which is slated to take place on New Year’s Day at several locations in both Jerusalem and central Israel.

491

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:24:49am

What. The. Fuck.

Woman Is Burned Alive in an Elevator in Brooklyn

492

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:27:26am

Netanyahu to ‘New York Times’: Take a hike

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is refusing to pen an op-ed piece for The New York Times, signaling the degree to which he is fed up with the influential newspaper’s editorial policy on Israel.

In a letter to the Times obtained by The Jerusalem Post on Thursday, Netanyahu’s senior adviser Ron Dermer – in response to the paper’s request that Netanyahu write an op-ed – wrote that the prime minister would “respectfully decline.”

Dermer made clear that this had much to do with the fact that 19 of the paper’s 20 op-ed pieces on Israel since September were negative.

Heh.

493

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:28:05am

re: #492 NJDhockeyfan

Yet he loves Beck.

Ah, Bibi, you're so transparent.

494

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:29:14am

re: #493 Obdicut

Yet he loves Beck.

Ah, Bibi, you're so transparent.

Guess that means ol' Bibi will be writing an op-ed for the New York Post. ;)

495

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:30:06am

re: #491 Gus 802

Such a psycho. I hope they catch him very quickly, or that he dies from the results of his self-inflicted burns and smoke inhalation.

496

Alexzander Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:34:40am

Morning el duderinos!

497

Alexzander Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:35:03am

Finishing off a night shift - one hour to go on my "Friday."

498

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:35:16am

re: #492 NJDhockeyfan

I hate your opinion, therefore I will not allow you to publish my opinion.

499

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:35:56am

re: #495 Obdicut

Such a psycho. I hope they catch him very quickly, or that he dies from the results of his self-inflicted burns and smoke inhalation.

It's disgusting. I can't believe someone could do such a thing. Such evil. Such madness.

500

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:36:39am

re: #498 negativ

I hate your opinion, therefore I will not allow you to publish my opinion.

But I don't hate the opinion of theofascists that will be gathering at Awakening 2012, so I'll send a whole video address to them!

501

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:37:39am

re: #499 Gus 802

It's disgusting. I can't believe someone could do such a thing. Such evil. Such madness.

Two things that spring in my mind are a serial-killer sort of mental illness, or some sort of a gang initiation (but I'm going by a pop stereotype here, probably not correct then).

502

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:39:00am

re: #491 Gus 802

Yeah ,, I was just reading that

sad

503

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:39:47am

re: #497 Alexzander

Finishing off a night shift - one hour to go on my "Friday."

been there
done that
got the paycheck (with a 15% shift differential added in!!)

504

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:41:25am

re: #500 Sergey Romanov

But I don't hate the opinion of theofascists that will be gathering at Awakening 2012, so I'll send a whole video address to them!

The rejection was penned by Ron Dermer:

GOP figure shakes up Israeli media

...And while its rivals grit their teeth, the paper has been welcomed by Netanyahu's circle.

"It's made a big difference in the country," said Netanyahu's closest adviser, Ron Dermer.

Dermer said it remains a missed opportunity that none of the country's television stations have followed the same "Fox model" of "chang[ing] the editorial line."

Or as Didi Remez Tweeted: Ron Dermer bemoans Israeli TV's "missed opportunity" in not adopting the "Fox model".

505

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:41:35am

Tremble in fear for I have coffee!

506

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:42:06am

I found this to be an excellent article.

[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

507

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:42:27am

re: #505 Varek Raith

Tremble in fear for I have coffee!

Too much coffee does lead to uncontrollable trembling.

And frequent urination.

508

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:42:54am

re: #507 Gus 802

Too much coffee does lead to uncontrollable trembling.

And frequent urination.

//

I'm immune.
:P

509

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:43:09am

re: #495 Obdicut

Such a psycho. I hope they catch him very quickly, or that he dies from the results of his self-inflicted burns and smoke inhalation.

Looks like he turned himself in...

NEW YORK (AP) — A man smelling of gasoline walked into a police station overnight and implicated himself in the death of a woman set on fire in the elevator of her apartment building, police said Sunday.

The 47-year-old man, who hasn’t been charged, said he had started a fire, said New York Police Department spokesman Paul Browne. The man’s identity hasn’t been released.

510

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:43:26am

re: #505 Varek Raith

Tremble in fear for I have coffee!

Beans, ground, or liquid form?

511

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:43:56am

re: #510 sattv4u2

Beans, ground, or liquid form?

Liquid.

512

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:44:02am

re: #508 Varek Raith

I'm immune.
:P

Prince of Darkness doesn't urinate!

513

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:44:28am

re: #511 Varek Raith

Liquid.

Good choice
Less crunchy that way

514

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:44:41am

re: #509 NJDhockeyfan

I'm not normally one to wish pain on others, but I hope he burned himself very badly. The kind of burning that reaches the nerves, and never heals.

515

Alexzander Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:45:10am

re: #503 sattv4u2

been there
done that
got the paycheck (with a 15% shift differential added in!!)

No additional pay for nightshift here :(

516

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:45:17am

re: #513 sattv4u2

Good choice
Less crunchy that way

A favorite of mine.

Youtube Video

517

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:46:00am

re: #514 Obdicut

I'm not normally one to wish pain on others, but I hope he burned himself very badly. The kind of burning that reaches the nerves, and never heals.

Yep. Although if it's a true mental case... I don't know.

518

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:46:35am

re: #484 Obdicut

Probably the 'not too much bother' scenario. Most cops just want the situation to go away, rather than to actually protect civil rights. Not making a judgement, it's just the path of least likelihood of things getting ugly.

I can understand that, even while disagreeing with it in principal*. Taking decisive action in a case like that just means more paperwork to fill out, and likely getting screamed at for days by monomaniacs who've made you into a devil-figure for opposing them.

And you're right about something getting ugly. Cops would likely not want to be a part something that gives a organized lobby like the ultra-Orthodox a rallying cry. Because that's a good way to find your career shrieking to a halt. Things getting ugly often produces a stink, and that stink has a way of sticking to the people involved.

*: "In principal", because if I had been put in that sort of situation while I was in retail, I would have tried to find the "least likely to get ugly" solution myself. The bosses do not thank you for angering a customer, even a crazy one.

519

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:46:39am

re: #514 Obdicut

I'm not normally one to wish pain on others, but I hope he burned himself very badly. The kind of burning that reaches the nerves, and never heals.

I was thinking something along the lines of power tools. Is that wrong of me?

520

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:47:36am

Vaclav Havel, leader of "Velvet Revolution," dies

(Reuters) - Vaclav Havel, a dissident playwright who was jailed by Communists and then went on to lead the bloodless "Velvet Revolution" and become Czech president, died at 75 on Sunday.

The former chain smoker, who survived several operations for lung cancer and a burst intestine in the late 1990s that nearly killed him and left him frail for the rest of his life, died after a long illness.

...The diminutive playwright, who once took Bill Clinton to a Prague jazz club and was also a friend of Mick Jagger, rose to fame by facing down Prague's communist regime when he demanded they respect at least their own human rights pledges.

Just half a year after completing his last jail sentence, he led the peaceful uprising that ended Soviet-backed rule in Prague and emerged in charge at the mediaeval Prague castle.

521

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:48:38am

re: #519 Gus 802

I was thinking something along the lines of power tools. Is that wrong of me?

Well, once you start fantasizing about torturing him for having tortured and killed her, everything gets gray on gray.

So is hoping he's in pain from his own actions, though really I just want him to never forget.

522

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:49:00am

re: #514 Obdicut

I'm not normally one to wish pain on others, but I hope he burned himself very badly. The kind of burning that reaches the nerves, and never heals.

I have a feeling he may experience a few 'accidents' in jail.

523

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:49:23am

re: #515 Alexzander

No additional pay for nightshift here :(

That bites

We have three levels here
Start time anytime between 6 a.m. and 11:59 a.m,,,, 1st shift
12:00 noon till 5:59 p.m ,,, 2nd shift ,, add 10%
6:00 p.m and later ,, add 15%

524

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:49:26am

re: #518 Dark_Falcon

No, I wasn't actually saying the cop was making a political decision, but wanted to avoid a potential physical confrontation.

525

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:49:27am

re: #521 Obdicut

Well, once you start fantasizing about torturing him for having tortured and killed her, everything gets gray on gray.

So is hoping he's in pain from his own actions, though really I just want him to never forget.

I know. Just thinking here.

526

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:49:58am

re: #520 NJDhockeyfan

Vaclav Havel, leader of "Velvet Revolution," dies

I've seen so many former noble democratic revolutioners turn sour and lose credibility, that Havel's record stands out, along with the other few. R.I.P.

527

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:51:16am

re: #525 Gus 802

I know. Just thinking here.

It's normal to wish to inflict physical pain on bad guys, AFAIC. As long as you don't put it into practice.

528

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:51:30am

re: #525 Gus 802

I know. Just thinking here.

Image: internet-memes-pepper-spraying-cop-y-u-noooooo.jpg

529

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:51:45am

Ah, crap.

530

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:51:45am

re: #526 Sergey Romanov

I've seen so many former noble democratic revolutioners turn sour and lose credibility, that Havel's records stands out, along with the other few. R.I.P.

Havel and Hitchens in the same week.

531

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:52:19am

re: #528 Varek Raith

Image: internet-memes-pepper-spraying-cop-y-u-nooo.jpg

Three o's should be added to the URL.

532

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:52:38am

re: #529 Varek Raith

Ah, crap.

Thats what coffee does to me too!!!

533

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:52:38am

re: #527 Sergey Romanov

It's normal to wish to inflict physical pain on bad guys, AFAIC. As long as you don't put it into practice.

Yeah. Well. Ol' Killer here caught a mouse several weeks ago. I saved the tiny thing from his jaws. ;)

534

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:53:06am

re: #531 Sergey Romanov

Three o's should be added to the URL.

SILENCE!
:P

535

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:53:35am

re: #534 Varek Raith

SILENCE!
:P

It's not your fault. LGF engine ated them.

536

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:53:55am

re: #530 Gus 802

Havel and Hitchens in the same week.

Old saw that it usually comes in threes

If I was famous and my last name began in an "H" I'd be worried
//

537

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:53:57am

re: #533 Gus 802

Yeah. Well. Ol' Killer here caught a mouse several weeks ago. I saved the tiny thing from his jaws. ;)

My cat throws rabbits into the air for the lulz.
I've saved so many of the poor sods from my crazy cat.

538

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:54:33am

Paula E. Hyman, Who Sought Rights for Women in Judaism, Dies at 65

Paula E. Hyman, a social historian who pioneered the study of women in Jewish life and became an influential advocate for women’s equality in Jewish religious practice, including their ordination as rabbis, died on Thursday at her home in New Haven. She was 65...

539

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:54:53am

re: #485 Gus 802

Things have gotten a little carried away in certain circles regarding this provision. I'm trying to see a legal option for any concerns and of course that includes a court of law. However, that doesn't seem to calm those who have decided that this "signals the end of America and impending martial law!" And of course that includes the usual talk about "FEMA camps!" revolving around this. Wish I was kidding.

I know you're not. I've seen that crazy talk myself.

540

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:55:03am

re: #538 Gus 802

DAMN ,,, what did I just say about coming in threes and last name of "H"

541

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:55:06am

re: #536 sattv4u2

Old saw that it usually comes in threes

If I was famous and my last name began in an "H" I'd be worried
//

Hitler will finally die somewhere in Brazil?

542

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:55:28am

re: #535 Sergey Romanov

It's not your fault. LGF engine ated them.

I keep forgetting that it does that.

543

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:55:54am

re: #537 Varek Raith

My cat throws rabbits into the air for the lulz.
I've saved so many of the poor sods from my crazy cat.

Don't forget to add ONLY TO DESTROY THEM MYSELF! BWAHAHAHA! You're losing the dark points.

544

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:56:42am

re: #543 Sergey Romanov

Don't forget to add ONLY TO DESTROY THEM MYSELF! BWAHAHAHA! You're losing the dark points.

I just assumed that's a given.
ZZZAAAPPP

545

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:57:03am

re: #540 sattv4u2

DAMN ,,, what did I just say about coming in threes and last name of "H"

She was not famous tho :P

546

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:57:32am

re: #446 Sergey Romanov

The busing brouhaha continues:

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

If I was boarding a bus in jersualem and some asshole told me to move to the back, I'd beat him over the head with my cane.

547

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:58:04am

ONLY 3 MORE SHOPPING DAYS TILL HANUKKAH!!

548

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:58:09am

re: #546 Alouette

If I was boarding a bus in jersualem and some asshole told me to move to the back, I'd beat him over the head with my cane.

YAY!

549

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:58:22am

re: #546 Alouette

If I was boarding a bus in jersualem and some asshole told me to move to the back, I'd beat him over the head with my cane.

Damn!
*Note to self, do not piss off Alouette *
:)

550

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:58:29am

re: #524 Obdicut

No, I wasn't actually saying the cop was making a political decision, but wanted to avoid a potential physical confrontation.

I understand. That is very important for police, given that altercations are how people get hurt.

551

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:59:09am

re: #549 Varek Raith

Damn!
*Note to self, do not piss off Alouette *
:)

You don't stand in Vicious Babushka's way!

552

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 7:59:21am

re: #537 Varek Raith

My cat throws rabbits into the air for the lulz.
I've saved so many of the poor sods from my crazy cat.

Youtube Video

553

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:00:30am

re: #552 NJDhockeyfan

[Video]

Interspecies rape, cool.

554

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:01:48am

re: #552 NJDhockeyfan

[Video]

Youtube Video

555

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:02:30am

Did I mention that I used to live in Mea Shearim? It used to be a really quaint place and a great tourist site. Last time I was there, in 2009, I went looking for the house where I used to live, and found that the entire block had been totally razed to build a huge yeshiva campus. There were brand new apartments just on the edge, between Mea Shearim and Shmuel Hanavi (where the Arab neighborhoods begin), starting price, twice as much as my 5-bedroom house.

I could definitely whack some gangsta asshole with my cane while cursing him and his homeys in the most fluent ghetto Yiddish.

556

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:02:30am

Hitchens on Vaclav Havel at 2:00.

Youtube Video

557

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:02:39am

Mornin' all...this is too fucking hilarious. An Open Letter from "concerned members of the Florida House of Representatives" regarding safety measures (panic buttons) given to state Senators (but not them) after the latest passage of the gun law.

Favorite snippets:

We couldn’t help but notice that our colleagues in the Senate were provided with enhanced security measures as a result of our controversial – but patriotic! – decision to allow licensed owners of concealed weapons to carry their loaded guns through the corridors of the Capitol.

And...

We’d be fibbing if we said every single member of the House actually read this bill and comprehended all its ramifications. Basically, we took the NRA’s word that it was no biggie. Ever since October 1, anybody with a concealed-weapons permit can bring their favorite pistol to beaches, parks, even public libraries. Most legislators weren’t too worried because, seriously, who the heck still goes to a library? Not us!

This is my favorite...broken sentence as originally written for emphasis...

Bearing in mind that citizens occasionally get angry at their politicians, and also bearing in mind that even a normally sober firearms owner can have a bad day, the NRA kindly allowed us to bar gun toters from the legislative chambers and committee rooms, where we conduct the

important business of selling out to special interests.

However, the law doesn’t prevent armed voters from freely walking the hallways of the Capitol, or visiting the offices of we the undersigned. Consequently, we were intrigued by media reports about the so-called panic buttons that have been given to members of the Senate, even to the Democrats who voted against the darn law. Not that we have an inferiority complex, but we who serve in the House are curious to know why our phones weren’t also equipped with emergency devices.

[Link: www.miamiherald.com...]

558

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:04:12am

re: #553 Sergey Romanov

Interspecies rape, cool.

/

There was that chimp-frog video that went viral a while ago.

559

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:04:15am

Anyone remember how to do the start time thing for a Youtube video here? I used "#t=120s" but it doesn't seem to work.

560

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:04:34am

re: #552 NJDhockeyfan

[Video]

So here we see the pussy literally getting humped by a bunny. :D

561

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:04:53am

re: #556 Gus 802

(He looks a bit like Barrett Brown here. Don't beat me.)

562

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:05:54am

re: #537 Varek Raith

My cat throws rabbits into the air for the lulz.
I've saved so many of the poor sods from my crazy cat.

Simon's Cat in 'Hop It'

Youtube Video

563

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:06:48am

re: #558 Alouette

There was that chimp-frog video that went viral a while ago.

Do I want to look?

564

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:07:16am

re: #557 darthstar

Actually, they have little to fear. People holding Concealed Carry Permits commit very few crimes.

565

Kronocide Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:07:50am

Before I die...

It’s easy to get caught up in the day-to-day and forget what really matters to you. With help from friends and neighbors, Candy turned the side of an abandoned house in her neighborhood in New Orleans into a giant chalkboard where residents can write on the wall and share what is important to them. Before I Die is an interactive public art project that transforms neglected spaces into a constructive places where we can discover the hopes and dreams of the people around us. It is also a reminder to ourselves of what is most important to us. It’s a question that changed Candy after she lost someone she loved very much, and she believes the design of our public spaces can better reflect what matters to us as a community and as individuals.

Won't catch the sunrise in Kapoho due to clouds, but the coffee and company is good.

566

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:08:00am

re: #563 Sergey Romanov

Do I want to look?

/

Dude, if you gotta ask...

567

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:08:00am

re: #559 Gus 802

Anyone remember how to do the start time thing for a Youtube video here? I used "#t=120s" but it doesn't seem to work.

Last time I tried it, it worked in 50% of cases (the same link at different times, I mean). Try to reload the page and click again, see if it works.

568

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:08:45am

re: #566 Dark_Falcon

Dude, if you gotta ask...

Srsly.

569

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:08:55am

re: #566 Dark_Falcon

Dude, if you gotta ask...

Hey, I'm still scarred by the Tubgirl!

/ Just kiddin', never seen that.

570

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:10:12am

re: #563 Sergey Romanov

Do I want to look?

/

Chimp-frog rape, it's on youtube. Search it yourself.

(What is a little old Jewish grandmother doing recommending these horrible animal perv videos?)

571

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:10:16am

re: #569 Sergey Romanov

Hey, I'm still scarred by the Tubgirl!

/ Just kiddin', never seen that.

Abandon all hope ye who enter the intertoobz.

572

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:10:48am

re: #567 Sergey Romanov

Last time I tried it, it worked in 50% of cases (the same link at different times, I mean). Try to reload the page and click again, see if it works.

Nope. Didn't work. Oh well. Easy enough to scroll over to 2:00.

573

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:10:57am

re: #570 Alouette

Chimp-frog rape, it's on youtube. Search it yourself.

(What is a little old Jewish grandmother doing recommending these horrible animal perv videos?)

574

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:10:58am

re: #570 Alouette

Chimp-frog rape, it's on youtube. Search it yourself.

(What is a little old Jewish grandmother doing recommending these horrible animal perv videos?)

Because you're awesome.

575

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:12:15am

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

Actually, they have little to fear. People holding Concealed Carry Permits commit very few crimes.

Wow...you never let me down, DF. I don't think they're worried about people with CCPs coming to the capitol building to commit crimes...they're worried about some of those unhinged people they call their base turning on them one day because of a perceived slight (like a less than anti-choice comment, or a recognition of one of President Obama's achievements)...you know, the kind of shit that sets off conservatives.

It only takes one angry constituent putting a bullet in you to ruin your day.

576

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:14:09am

Killer bunny and the holy grenade of Antioch

Youtube Video

577

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:14:25am

re: #576 NJDhockeyfan

Killer bunny and the holy grenade of Antioch

[Video]

JESUS CHRIST!

578

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:15:02am

From this thread I learn that small furry animals are rapists and murderers.

LGF is fun and educational!

579

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:15:16am

Check out this delusional Eurocrat:

Incoming EU president: Europe to block deals with Israel until peace process moves forward
Incoming president of the European Parliament Martin Schulz tells Haaretz the euro will not collapse, calls Merkel's conduct 'arrogant' and Cameron's 'obstructive'.

BRUSSELS - Some would see it as poetic justice, a tale of small-scale retribution. Walking down a corridor of the European Parliament is a stunning young woman with black hair and a slender figure, "straight out of a magazine." Martin Schulz, not the most impressive peacock in the building, is walking past her, accompanied by two aides. The gorgeous woman's eyes sparkle as she looks at him and flashes a wide smile. Schulz nearly chokes. "Was that smile for me?" he asks, seeking verification. "It wasn't aimed at you, right?"

I confirm.

"She's one of the beauties that Silvio Berlusconi bequeathed to the parliament," notes his assistant. Schulz keeps on walking, his head held high. The circle has closed: A few years ago, Schulz, the leader of the Socialists in the European Parliament, gained the world's attention following an incident in the parliament plenum in which the Italian prime minister, who had just become the rotating president of the EU Council of Ministers, was presenting his platform. Berlusconi was displeased by a reproachful speech that Schulz delivered in response. "Mister Schulz, I know of a movie producer in Italy who is making a film about Nazi concentration camps." he said. "I will recommend you for the part of a kapo. You are perfect!"

Berlusconi recently lost his job as the prime minister of Italy. Conversely, the 56-year-old Schulz will soon settle into the seat of the president of the European Parliament. He regards the appointment with awe, and has already adopted an official demeanor.

A delusional Eurosocialist, just what nobody needs right now. The EU's cluemeter is still reading at 'zero'.

580

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:18:11am

re: #578 Sergey Romanov

From this thread I learn that small furry animals are rapists and murderers.

LGF is fun and educational!

/

It's a floor wax ,,, no ,,,, it's a dessert topping!!

581

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:18:34am

re: #578 Sergey Romanov

re: #580 sattv4u2

[Link: www.nbc.com...]

582

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:18:44am

Found it!

Youtube Video

Used &start=119 here.

Time is in seconds

583

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:18:44am

re: #579 Dark_Falcon

What the hell is a 'Eurosocialist', Dark? Is that like the socialists in Norway and Sweden, which weathered the financial meltdown much better than we did?

584

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:19:59am

re: #575 darthstar

Wow...you never let me down, DF. I don't think they're worried about people with CCPs coming to the capitol building to commit crimes...they're worried about some of those unhinged people they call their base turning on them one day because of a perceived slight (like a less than anti-choice comment, or a recognition of one of President Obama's achievements)...you know, the kind of shit that sets off conservatives.

It only takes one angry constituent putting a bullet in you to ruin your day.

You have to show your CCW permit before you are allowed to bring your gun onto the grounds, and those who have such permits don't draw their guns over slights.

The kind of unhinged loon would would shoot over a political slight can normally be denied a permit for being a unhinged loon. Lots of people spew violent rhetoric on the internet, but very few of them (and almost no CCW permit holders) will actually try to shoot someone over a political tiff.

585

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:20:09am

re: #581 sattv4u2

We're sorry, but the clip you selected isn't available from your location. Please select another clip.

586

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:21:28am

re: #584 Dark_Falcon

You have to show your CCW permit before you are allowed to bring your gun onto the grounds, and those who have such permits don't draw their guns over slights.

Is it your contention that nobody with a CCW permit has ever committed a crime of passion?

587

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:22:37am

re: #578 Sergey Romanov

From this thread I learn that small furry animals are rapists and murderers.

LGF is fun and educational!

/

This leads to the most famous dangerous killer rabbit in all of history.

[Link: news.google.com...]

588

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:23:55am

re: #585 Sergey Romanov

Old Saturday Night Live clip ,,, Akroyd and Radner doing a "commercial" for

New Shimmer

589

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:24:18am

re: #587 NJDhockeyfan

Good old NJDH :P

590

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:24:54am

re: #589 Sergey Romanov

Good old NJDH :P

You have to admit, that article is fucking hilarious.

591

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:24:54am

Even more gender segregation in Israel at the employment office!

Oh wait, it's the Druse demanding the segregation this time, not those horrible Haredim. The Druse must be respected!

592

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:26:12am

re: #584 Dark_Falcon

Keep telling yourself that having a permit makes a person more stable, because they couldn't have gotten one otherwise...maybe it'll be true. That's like saying assholes don't drive Chevys because if they're an asshole they'd buy a Prius.

593

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:26:40am

re: #591 Alouette

Even more gender segregation in Israel at the employment office!

Oh wait, it's the Druse demanding the segregation this time, not those horrible Haredim. The Druse must be respected!

Nope! Those who implemented this "accomodating" policy are assholes too.

594

Renaissance_Man Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:30:15am

re: #579 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure you have any cogent counterarguments other than 'a European said it, so it must be wrong'.

595

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:30:26am

re: #583 Obdicut

What the hell is a 'Eurosocialist', Dark? Is that like the socialists in Norway and Sweden, which weathered the financial meltdown much better than we did?

In this case its some idiot who bashes David Cameron for fighting for the UK's interests, and talks about a "Marshall Plan" for the Middle East while the Eurozone is drowning in bad debt. That is a delusional person in my book, and he's an EU person from a socialist party. Obdi, this guy's party in Germany is the Socialist Party, so it is valid to call him a socialist.

596

Kronocide Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:32:04am

Even more credible sciency blogs are crawling with denialist bots.

Ice sheets can expand in a geologic instant, study shows

597

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:34:55am

re: #586 Obdicut

Is it your contention that nobody with a CCW permit has ever committed a crime of passion?

No, and why would you think so?

598

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:35:43am

re: #595 Dark_Falcon

In this case its some idiot who bashes David Cameron for fighting for the UK's interests, and talks about a "Marshall Plan" for the Middle East while the Eurozone is drowning in bad debt. .

Cameron's stupid fucking austerity plan has savaged the UK economically. And a Marshall plan for the Middle East is ambitious as all-get out, but it's certainly a good idea... sometime.

That is a delusional person in my book, and he's an EU person from a socialist party. Obdi, this guy's party in Germany is the Socialist Party, so it is valid to call him a socialist

What's the delusion, exactly?

And I'm pointing out that "Eurosocialist" isn't really an insult, which was the way you were clearly using it.

How do you manage to deal with the fact that some heavily socialist countries like Denmark have greater social mobility and greater levels of entrepreneurship than the US, by the way? Do you prefer to ignore it, or special-plead those cases?

599

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:36:10am

re: #596 BigPapa

Even more credible sciency blogs are crawling with denialist bots.

Ice sheets can expand in a geologic instant, study shows

Oh look! Someone links to Infowars in the comments. Too funny.

600

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:37:18am

re: #595 Dark_Falcon

In this case its some idiot who bashes David Cameron for fighting for the UK's interests, and talks about a "Marshall Plan" for the Middle East while the Eurozone is drowning in bad debt. That is a delusional person in my book, and he's an EU person from a socialist party. Obdi, this guy's party in Germany is the Socialist Party, so it is valid to call him a socialist.

The article you quote also quips that he'd make a good movie Nazi. So he's European, he's from a socialist party, he's GERMAN, AND he'd apparently make a good hollywood Nazi.

My god, you're brilliant!

601

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:37:28am

A Photo That Encapsulates the Horror of Egypt's Crackdown

602

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:37:36am

re: #598 Obdicut

Cameron's stupid fucking austerity plan has savaged the UK economically. And a Marshall plan for the Middle East is ambitious as all-get out, but it's certainly a good idea... sometime.

The EU has no money for such a plan, and austerity is better than continued 'pump-priming' at this point. A savaging will help teach people to live within their means, if nothing else.

603

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:37:52am

re: #597 Dark_Falcon

No, and why would you think so?

Because this:

and those who have such permits don't draw their guns over slights.

Would indicate you don't think a CCW holder would ever draw their gun and use it in a crime of passion.

Or that you think if you have a CCW you can't ever become mentally deranged.

Or didn't you mean to make an absolutist statement?

604

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:38:03am

re: #593 Sergey Romanov

Nope! Those who implemented this "accomodating" policy are assholes too.

Sorry, forgot the //

605

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:39:36am

re: #600 darthstar

The article you quote also quips that he'd make a good movie Nazi. So he's European, he's from a socialist party, he's GERMAN, AND he'd apparently make a good hollywood Nazi.

My god, you're brilliant!

The article quoted Silvio Berlusconi, who said that. Neither the author of the article nor I said we agreed with that sentiment. So your insult is a misfire.

606

Renaissance_Man Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:39:56am

re: #584 Dark_Falcon

You have to show your CCW permit before you are allowed to bring your gun onto the grounds, and those who have such permits don't draw their guns over slights.

Omar Thornton, CCW permit holder, shoots and kills 5 men after racial slights"

607

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:40:04am

re: #602 Dark_Falcon

The EU has no money for such a plan, and austerity is better than continued 'pump-priming' at this point.

No, Dark. Austerity is fucking terrible, demonstrably so. All the countries enacting austerity measures have done far worse than the countries that haven't in recovering from the recession.

Do you have any explanation for that?

A savaging will help teach people to live within their means, if nothing else.

A 'savaging'? What on earth are you talking about? The 'savaging' of the removal of governmental services will convince people to live within their means by what mechanism? What if they already were living within their means, but austerity programs have removed governmental services they relied on?

608

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:40:25am

Oh brother. Then a link to some weirdo blog with some comment freaking out about Michael Mann, "Obama's" indefinite detention and then (unfortunately) embedding Eisenhower's "military-industrial-complex" speech.

609

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:40:25am

re: #604 Alouette

Sorry, forgot the //

No need, in that case sarcasm was obvious ;)

610

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:40:47am

re: #603 Obdicut

Because this:

Would indicate you don't think a CCW holder would ever draw their gun and use it in a crime of passion.

Or that you think if you have a CCW you can't ever become mentally deranged.

Or didn't you mean to make an absolutist statement?

I meant it as a general statement. Why are you heckling me over it?

611

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:41:53am

re: #610 Dark_Falcon

I meant it as a general statement. ~~Why are you heckling me over it?~~

Never mind, I have to go. BBL

612

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:42:03am

re: #610 Dark_Falcon

I meant it as a general statement. Why are you heckling me over it?

Because it's a foolish statement, Dark. Why are you surprised I'd point out that it was wrong?

CCW holders are human beings, and capable of shooting people over slights. Saying that they're not is deeply weird.

613

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:43:41am

How many gallons of gasoline would it take to charge an iPhone?

614

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:45:31am

re: #613 NJDhockeyfan

Your'e seriously linking to ExxonMobile for information about energy usage unironically?

Really really?

615

NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:45:53am

I need to get off my ass and do something.

Later gators!

BTW...Go Skins!

616

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:46:17am

re: #602 Dark_Falcon

The EU has no money for such a plan, and austerity is better than continued 'pump-priming' at this point. A savaging will help teach people to live within their means, if nothing else.

Poor people already suffer globally. "Savagings" both here and abroad will ony make them suffer more. I find that statement to be arrogant and ignorant.

617

jaunte Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:47:58am

re: #616 darthstar

"Savagings will continue until morale improves."

618

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:49:52am

re: #607 Obdicut

A 'savaging'? What on earth are you talking about? The 'savaging' of the removal of governmental services will convince people to live within their means by what mechanism? What if they already were living within their means, but austerity programs have removed governmental services they relied on?

Dark's parroting the conservative line that people can't expect the government to take care of them. Besides...think how much fun he'll have blogging about the "food riots over there" (not to mention the boost it will give to people selling defense seminar seats). Honestly, I don't think he really thinks about his position, except to think it's right(and unchangeable).

619

Obdicut Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:50:04am

re: #617 jaunte

Apparently when the economy is bad people behave more sensibly economically. No actual proof for that contention, of course.

And as if the economic crisis was caused by people not living within their means.

620

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:50:15am

People need to learn to live within their means! Now if you'll excuse me I have to go to the post office to drop off a car payment and several credit card bills in the mail.

621

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:50:44am

morning all.

It did not snow in the night in my part of East Iowa.

622

Renaissance_Man Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:50:50am

re: #607 Obdicut

A 'savaging'? What on earth are you talking about? The 'savaging' of the removal of governmental services will convince people to live within their means by what mechanism? What if they already were living within their means, but austerity programs have removed governmental services they relied on?

It's the Randian belief that financial crisis is somehow the fault of the 'parasites', and thus the low-income earners should be taught a lesson because they need to be punished for something or other. Whereas any austerity that might interrupt the spigot of public funds to large corporations, and thus might actually effect deficit reduction, has to be prevented, because they're the 'producers'.

623

Kronocide Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:51:33am

re: #616 darthstar

Poor people already suffer globally. "Savagings" both here and abroad will ony make them suffer more. I find that statement to be ~~arrogant and ignorant~~ conservative dogma.

People need to be punished, that'll teach em.

624

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:53:14am

re: #621 ggt

morning all.

It did not snow in the night in my part of East Iowa.

Neither did it in my part of NorthEast Georgia!!

625

Renaissance_Man Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:53:24am

re: #618 darthstar

Dark's parroting the conservative line that people can't expect the government to take care of them. Besides...think how much fun he'll have blogging about the "food riots over there" (not to mention the boost it will give to people selling defense seminar seats). Honestly, I don't think he really thinks about his position, except to think it's right(and unchangeable).

He's stated unequivocally that he doesn't think about his position, just supports or opposed them based on who said it.

In all honesty, given that admission, it's almost unfair of us to argue with his positions like they have any sort of serious forethought, and I wouldn't bother except for the fact that I think he still wants to actually consider ideas on their merits, though his entire thought process has evolved to do the opposite.

626

jaunte Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:53:36am

re: #623 BigPapa

Like that guy Angelo Mozilo, I understand he was fined millions of dollars (after he got to keep hundreds of millions).

627

b_sharp Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:54:09am

re: #590 NJDhockeyfan

You have to admit, that article is fucking hilarious.

Would you have posted that had it not been Carter? How about Reagan or Bush?

628

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:56:00am

re: #624 sattv4u2

Neither did it in my part of NorthEast Georgia!!

Good to know big snow isn't out to get all of us.

629

jaunte Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:56:34am

Florida, seen from the ISS:
[Link: plus.google.com...]

630

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:57:04am

re: #628 ggt

Good to know big snow isn't out to get all of us.

Don't get me wrong

We've had our snow storms

Just last year, a half inch shut down the city for a week!!!!

631

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:57:13am

re: #629 jaunte

Florida, seen from the ISS:
[Link: plus.google.com...]

That is beautiful.

632

Kronocide Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:58:00am

re: #626 jaunte

Like that guy Angelo Mozilo, I understand he was fined millions of dollars (after he got to keep hundreds of millions).

That's called "1%er Austerity"

633

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:58:09am

re: #625 Renaissance_Man

He's stated unequivocally that he doesn't think about his position, just supports or opposed them based on who said it.

In all honesty, given that admission, it's almost unfair of us to argue with his positions like they have any sort of serious forethought, and I wouldn't bother except for the fact that I think he still wants to actually consider ideas on their merits, though his entire thought process has evolved to do the opposite.

It's a Sisyphean endeavor, I agree, but I keep banging my head against his wall all the same.

634

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:58:20am

re: #631 ggt

That is beautiful.

Image: earthlights_dmsp.jpg

635

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:58:49am

re: #634 Varek Raith

Image: earthlights_dmsp.jpg

I was waving just as you took that

(you didn't wave back, btw!!)

636

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:59:22am

re: #634 Varek Raith

Image: earthlights_dmsp.jpg

I've seen that one before. Not nearly as beautiful, but thought provoking.

637

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:59:49am

Brat Puppy's current challenge is to figure out how to raise the toilet lid to get a drink.

I keep hearing it bang.

638

Gepetto Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:00:06am

re: #586 Obdicut

Is it your contention that nobody with a CCW permit has ever committed a crime of passion?

it would be interesting to see the national stats for crimes of passion involving a CCW holder vs those involving knives or impact weapons. here in the land of lax gun control, the knife/passion crime correlation is quite high.

639

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:00:52am

re: #637 ggt

Brat Puppy's current challenge is to figure out how to raise the toilet lid to get a drink.

Make sure he doesn't make the mistake all us other males do

Teach him to put the lid down when he's done!

640

b_sharp Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:01:21am

re: #602 Dark_Falcon

The EU has no money for such a plan, and austerity is better than continued 'pump-priming' at this point. A savaging will help teach people to live within their means, if nothing else.

And near death experiences teach people to appreciate life.

641

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:02:21am

re: #639 sattv4u2

Make sure he doesn't make the mistake all us other males do

Teach him to put the lid down when he's done!

I'm hoping that the natural consequence of getting his nose banged a few times will deter this endeavor.

642

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:02:34am

re: #637 ggt

Brat Puppy's current challenge is to figure out how to raise the toilet lid to get a drink.

I think it was Gary Shandling that did a bit about that

Something along the lines of his dog seeing Gary pee in the toilet

"The dog must be thinking,, 'hey Hey HEY !! I drink out of there!!'"

643

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:03:11am

Later gators.

644

jaunte Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:03:50am

Phil Plait @BadAstronomer
"I seek to cure what's deep inside, frightened of this thing that I've become. I bless the brains down in Africa." - Zombie Toto

645

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:06:36am

re: #638 Gepetto

it would be interesting to see the national stats for crimes of passion involving a CCW holder vs those involving knives or impact weapons. here in the land of lax gun control, the knife/passion crime correlation is quite high.

It's not a matter of statistics. Allowing CCW holders into the capitol adds a level of risk to our elected representatives. It only takes one idiot with a "second amendment solution" in his mind to negate a democratic result from an election. We shouldn't have to wait for that to happen for that law to change.

And yes, people with knives use their weapons far more than those with guns. Knives are a more intimate weapon, and the fucked up psychology is less likely to release the needed "DON'TFUCKINGDOTHAT" receptors in the brain in those cases.

646

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:06:54am

Yeah, Brat Puppy is ready to expend energy this morning. Old Man Dog keeps coming to me and looking up with a pleading expression.

I'll translate: "Please, don't do this to me, make him go away"

647

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:08:46am

re: #646 ggt

Yeah, Brat Puppy is ready to expend energy this morning. Old Man Dog keeps coming to me and looking up with a pleading expression.

I'll translate: "Please, don't do this to me, make him go away"

I know that look

When we brought home rescue dog #2 (after rescue dog #1 had free reign of the house for over a year) #1 would look at us saying "psst ,,,, hey,,, who let a dog in here??"

648

b_sharp Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:09:52am

re: #639 sattv4u2

Make sure he doesn't make the mistake all us other males do

Teach him to put the lid down when he's done!

I don't usually drink out of the toilet, I was trained to drink out of the tap.

649

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:10:02am

re: #647 sattv4u2

I know that look

When we brought home rescue dog #2 (after rescue dog #1 had free reign of the house for over a year) #1 would look at us saying "psst ,,, hey,,, who let a dog in here??"

LOL

Old Man Dog isn't really a dog. He has progressed to Person Status in the house.

650

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:10:40am

re: #648 b_sharp

I don't usually drink out of the toilet, I was trained to drink out of the tap.

You must have opposable thumbs.

651

Kronocide Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:11:05am

Russian International News Agency Releases 100 Previously Unseen World War II Images

Children take shelter drawing an air raid, near Minsk, 1941, part of a largely unseen Russian archive. Now, the Russian International News Agency has an enormous archive of photographs spanning many decades, many of which have never been seen before. It has recently committed to making part of this archive open to the public and to this end has started a project known as Eternal Values.

652

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:11:13am

re: #648 b_sharp

I don't usually drink out of the toilet, I was trained to drink out of the tap.

Any Port In A Storm!

653

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:11:59am

re: #650 ggt

You must have opposable thumbs.

What are they opposed too?

Will they be protesting??

654

Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:12:34am

re: #653 sattv4u2

What are they opposed too?

Will they be protesting??

They are opposed to the other 80%

655

darthstar Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:14:04am

re: #652 sattv4u2

Any Port In A Storm!

Don't say that to Santa.

656

b_sharp Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:14:40am

re: #653 sattv4u2

What are they opposed too?

Will they be protesting??

They're part of the Occupy (the) Nose movement.

657

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:15:00am

re: #629 jaunte

Florida, seen from the ISS:
[Link: plus.google.com...]

Mexico And The Eastern United States ISS

Youtube Video

658

sattv4u2 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:16:04am

re: #655 darthstar

Don't say that to Santa.

Santa, being naughty AND nice!!

659

Gus Sun, Dec 18, 2011 9:17:20am

"Ron Paul" — A BLR Soundbite

Youtube Video

Bad lip reading!

660

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Dec 18, 2011 10:22:04am

re: #544 Varek Raith

I just assumed that's a given.
ZZZAAAPPP

Get a larger cat - and unleash it on the Ewoks. (If there are any left.)

661

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Dec 18, 2011 10:23:58am

re: #551 Sergey Romanov

You don't stand in Vicious Babushka's way!

That choking sound you hear is someone being strangled with the scarf.
You have been warned.

662

CriticalDragon1177 Sun, Dec 18, 2011 8:18:06pm

Charles Johnson,

Personally I don't like Obama, but its beginning to look more and more like I can't really throw my full support behind any of the Republican Nominees either. I'm a major supporter of the separation of church and state, and I have been for a long time. With Mitt Romney openly coming out against secularism, I now have even less to feel enthusiastic about any presidential candidate. Whoever wins the Republican nomination, for all intense and purposes, it will be a choose between him and Obama, and it will be like voting for the lesser of two evils for me.

Spy Mode Auto

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